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1995 06 27 Agenda . . . File AGENDA PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION TUESDA Y, JUNE 27, 1995, 5:30 P.M. CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE 5:30 p.m.- Site Tours. Please arrive at City Hall before 5:30 p.m. 1. Chanhassen Recreation Center 2. Stockdale Site (Galpin Boulevard) 3. Harstad Site (Minnewashta Boulevard) 4. Lake Ann Park 7:00 p.m. - REGULAR MEETING 1. Approval of Minutes: April 25, May 8, and May 23, 1995. NEW BUSINESS 2. Item Deleted ** 3. Conceptual Review; Development of "Stockdale"jGalpin Boulevard Property, JMS Companies Jeff Schoenwetter 80 West 78th Street, Suite 133 Chanhassen, MN 55317 UNFINISHED BUSINESS 4. Lake Ann Park Batting Cage Operations. 5. Program Reports: a. 4th of July Celebration b. Summer Discovery Playground c. Tennis Programs 6. Administrative Presentations: a. Lifeguard Olympics, Lake Ann Park b. Personnel News c. 1996 Budget Preparations d. Director's Report 7. Commission Member Presentations. 8. Administrative Packet. 9. Adjournment. The following item was published in the newspaper and subsequently deleted from the agenda: 2. Land Development Proposal: Comprehensi ve Plan Land Use Map Amendment from Office/lndustrial to Residential Low Density; Rezoning from A2, Agricultural Estate to RSF, Single Family Residential; and Preliminary Plat Approval for 59 Single Family Lots and 2 Outlots and Associated Right-of-Way on 46.27 Acres of Property Located at 8470 Galpin Boulevard (the Northwest corner of Galpin Boulevard and Lyman Boulevard), Southern Oaks, Scherber Partnership Properties. .' . . . . . /0..-, ~ CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING APRIL 25, 1995 Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Jan Lash, Jim Manders, Fred Berg, and Dave Huffman MEMBERS ABSENT: Jane Meger and Ron Roeser STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor/Senior Coordinator APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission dated February 28, 1995 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Lash moved, Berg seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated March 28, 1995 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: Andrews: I believe we have one person that wishes to speak to us right now, is that correct? Hoffman: Correct. Jennifer McCarty was not able to make it this evening. Mary Bensman is here in her absence. Mary. Mary Bensman: Hi. As he said, my name's Mary Bensman and I'm Chairman of the Shorewood Park Commission. And I'm here tonight to offer you an opportunity. We've been going around Shorewood improving the parks, particularly the playground equipment. And have done two playgrounds in Freeman Park, a playground in...Park and a playground in Silverwood Park. And the next two on the agenda are Badger and Cathcart. Cathcart has been moved up in fact because the playground equipment at Cathcart Park was set on fire by vandals and most of it was taken down because we felt it was unsafe. So at this point we're planning to invest $25,000.00 in playground elements at Cathcart Park. And I think that's pretty exciting. As you know, and I don't know, are you all aware of the joint agreement between the City of Chanhassen and City of Shorewood? If you're not, I've got some papers on that. Andrews: You may want to just summarize what that is for the benefit of those people that are listening. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Mary Bensman: The property known as Cathcart Park is owned by the City of Shorewood but it is actually located in the city of Chanhassen, which is kind of, I'm not certain what the history of that is but I'm sure it's very interesting. So the cities of Chanhassen and Shorewood, their wish is to maintain Cathcart as a quality neighborhood park and they have agreed to the following, as of this joint agreement which was signed last, well June of '93. That both municipalities shall treat Cathcart as their own municipal park in the manner... for improvements. And neither city will...for public improvements. And the Shorewood will improve the park in accordance with it's CIP or Capital Improvement Plan as it evolves over the years. Coordinate programs for the use of the facility and maintain all...and buildings. And the City of Chanhassen will be responsible for maintenance of all park greenery, including grass mowing and maintenance and installing and maintaining landscaping, trees, shrubs and plants at it's sole discretion. A planned parking lot will be constructed by the City of Shorewood and Shorewood will maintain the parking lot. So it's really kind of a joint effort and I think it's pretty neat but I think it's also obviously a park that needs some work and we are really planning to do a lot of that this year. Besides the playground equipment we're going to relocate the ballfield and redo the parking lot. And the reason I'm here tonight is in, as we have done the other parks, we have looked to the surrounding neighbors for help in construction of the park. The city has, or the Park Commission and the City have purchased and gotten all the materials but the labor has been donated generally by the people who live in that neighborhood and we found that to be really a great way to bring the . neighborhood together. And also involve the folks in doing something for their community and their kids that they may not have a lot of opportunity to do otherwise. We found that this playground equipment, I brought a sample of what it looks like. We've had very similar stuff at your schools. Can be installed by neighbors, on a Saturday, in 6 to 8 hours with the help of a company representative and a foreman type person who actually...very good at telling people what to do. And I guess what we're asking for you today is we will supply the citizen foreman, who is a person who has volunteered. His name is John Steinheible. He lives on Beverly Drive. If you folks would be willing to find a coordinator to recruit volunteers to help install playground equipment. Additionally we would like to ask if you would be willing to build a framing. There's generally a wooden frame or boxing that the pea gravel fits in and install that with framing around the area, the play area. That certainly would allow us to use that entire $25,000.00 for playground equipment, which we would like to do. Andrews: Alright. Your time table for this is pretty short I would imagine? Mary Bensman: Yeah, fairly. We don't know exactly. 2 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Andrews: We would not normally take immediate action but have to refer it to a future meeting, which puts us into May. And now you're trying to get this done this summer, I would imagine. Mary Bensman: Well, before the snow flies next fall. Andrews: Okay, right. That gives us enough time I think to bring it up and make a consideration and take the action we would need to take. Do we need a motion to put that on a future agenda Todd, or do we just do it? Hoffman: Please. A motion to put it on the agenda. Mary Bensman: Just additional information...build that framing and that's an option. Andrews: Okay. That's something we can look at too. Manders: I'd move that we put that issue on a future agenda. Huffman: Second. Manders moved, Huffman seconded to n~quest that the item l-eganling Cathcart Park be put on a future Park and Recreation Commission agenda. All voted in favor and the motion canied. CITIZEN REOUEST FOR PARK IMPROVEMENTS: POWER HILL PARK. Public Present: Name Addl-ess Leslie Johnson Ed Kraft Susan M. Hurm Kevin Rahe Harlan Blankenship Mike Leewen Bob Engebretson Donald Coban Ron Michels Bryon Botz 8719 Flamingo Drive 8711 Flamingo Drive 8542 Flamingo Drive 8696 Flamingo Drive 8805 Sunset Trail 8726 Flamingo Drive 8720 Flamingo Drive 8821 Sunset Trail 8751 Flamingo Drive 8743 Flamingo Drive 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Todd Hoffman pn~sented the staff report on this item. Andrews: Todd, I'd like to direct you here. We had talked in the car riding back here about, when we came up with this Plan C or Plan 3 I guess. If you want to just quickly show what we had talked about. Hoffman: What the commissioner spoke of is an alternative, would be to terminate the parking lot here with a gate. Huffman: Todd, you're standing right in the light there. Hoffman: And then bring some pull in parking down in this side. At least for the summer months so we would gate it for the summer months. Put up a basketball hoop. Allow play to continue and then in the winter open up the gate. Plow the lot and allow parking for the sliding hill. Another proposal which the Park Commission came up with, about 10 minutes ago. Lash: That's why we were late. Andrews: I'm taking a bit of liberty here for people want to join me in agreement here. I think we were unanimous in our desire not to consider Site Plan #2 at all. We don't want to even consider disturbing the larger open area. We were considering the alternatives between this new Plan #3 and Plan #1 as a possibility. We considered this third alternative to be one that has less impact in the area, and it also saves us money to be quite honest. Or probably save us a bit of money. If anybody wants to make any comments about that idea. If you'd step forward and state your name and address for the record and I would appreciate it if you'd keep your comments as brief as possible. We have a long agenda tonight. . Bob Engebretson: My name is Bob Engebretson. I'm at 8720 Flamingo Drive. I think your third plan is an excellent one. It would utilize what's already existing there and it frees up that open space area for the kids to play baseball, football, soccer, whatever it may be. Because I was concerned also, in addition to the noise problem, also if you put that hard surface out there and put a post up there, you eliminate the option of using it for baseball, football or whatever but I think it's an excellent idea of what you just proposed. Thank you. Andrews: Any other comments? Resident: Is this just on this or can we make comments on other things? That are related to what we talked about last meeting. 4 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Andrews: At this point we're limiting our comments to this basketball, hard surface little play area here. Resident: Where would the gates be located? He had his hand in front of me. Andrews: Well our idea was that where the parking lot rectangle starts, we put some sort of a post and chain across there to keep vehicular traffic from entering that area. Resident: And then you would put a paved portion where it's in blue there? Andrews: We would make some nose in parking there. There's probably, well there's room there for some nose in parking so it would be perhaps a little tougher to get in and out of there but I guess our feeling was that we didn't anticipate a whole lot of cars really wanting to come in there and park anyway. It's a park that's relatively hard to see from the street and I guess our feeling was that it'd be unlikely there'd be more than a couple cars up there anyway. Berg: The thought that in the wintertime if that hill did start getting used for sledding, that this could be opened up. The basketball court area could be opened up for additional parking. Resident: And the basketball hoop would be removable? Huffman: No. It would be off the side of the asphalt. It would be in the grass, leaning over the asphalt. Andrews: You need to step forward if you have comments please so we can get them on the record for the Minutes. Ron Michels: I'm Ron Michels, 8751 Flamingo Drive. I also agree with that idea and I guess my question is, since that's a bigger pad of blacktop, could there be two baskets or maybe one basket at 8 feet for the smaller children since you won't be putting in a pad and the money could be spent towards another basket. Maybe a little smaller one off to the side. Andrews: It's a possibility. The one thing to look at too is that the surface is not level and we recognize that and our plan would not be to go in there and spend $10,000.00 to level it out so it may not be real easy to put two of them in there far enough apart where they could both be used at the same time. And I guess I would want to make sure that they could be if we did that. Huffman: But that is a great idea. And then we could dunk. 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Lash: I kicked around the idea of, it is a big area. If we put in a basketball pole and then maybe did some line painting for four square or some kind of things like that. Resident: Can I ask one question? Which direction or which side of that pavement would you put the hoop on? Would it be on the west end? Andrews: We didn't even look. Berg: You're way ahead of us on that one. Lash: Away from the homes. Resident: As far away from the homes as possible. Only because of the noise. Berg: Then I would suggest the south so later in the day you don't have to worry about the sun In your eyes. Hoffman: Yeah, the play structure would be located. This would be the play area and this would be, you don't want to put them on this side because of the. Lash: The hill, right. . Hoffman: The steep hill going down. This side the houses start. Lots coming in. And so you could put one here and one here. It may be somewhat of an issue with access to the play area because we'll have...coming off of here in the proximity of that but, either this side or this side would be the only two options. South or. Andrews: That hill's quite a ways away Todd. I mean I think you could miss a shot and it only could make it to the hill. Huffman: I like south. No, you're going to, first time someone has to go chasing that ball, you'll be... Lash: I'd prefer the west side just because you know in the afternoon... Andrews: To be honest, the placement, if we were to make a mistake, would not be all that hard to correct. I mean if we had to pick one and move one, it wouldn't be an unbelievable difficulty. Any other comments? Now it's our turn to take some action here. We've been talking about this for weeks. Fred, I'll kick it down to your end first. 6 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Berg: I'm happy with it. I'm glad that it was something that came up. I wanted, my major goal was to maintain the pristine nature of that hill, just like I think it was most of our's. All of our's, and I think this is a nice compromise with the caveat that we have only looked at this for, you know 15 minutes ago and if something comes up that Todd thinks of, or whatever, otherwise I'm in favor of it. Manders: Yeah. I would say that the decision as to where to put the basketball hoops is pretty minor so, I like this idea. Andrews: I like the idea. I would like to see us get some drawings done to see how the parking would work out. I'd like to see enough space for at least 4 regular cars and 1 handicap. Huffman: After much thought and soul searching, I agree. Lash: I agree. Andrews: Make the motion then. Lash: I move that we, I recommend that we look at Power Hill Park installing a basketball hoop into the parking lot area and putting that additional four stalls plus the handicap in line parking on the north side."And that the money, I'd like to see a price estimate, number one I guess before I'm going to be totally comfortable with taking this off of our fund, although I think that we will do that. Andrews: You may want to add the chains and posts. Lash: Right, and to chain off the parking area. The current parking area. To be open in the summer, or in the winter, if necessary. Andrews: So if I understand your motion, you're asking staff then to draw up a finalized plan for approval. Lash: Right. With price estimates. Berg: Second. Andrews: Okay, any discussion? 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Lash moved, Berg seconded that the Pmk and Recl~ation Commission direct staff to dmw up finalized plans for an expanded pmking lot/basketball comt, posts and chains for Power Hill Park. All voted in favor and the motion canied. Lash: Susan, were your comments about the lower section? Susan Hurm: Yes. Andrews: We're going to be talking more about the lower section, was it also next meeting? Is that correct? Because we're going to have some staff information back about drainage. So we may not be able to do much action right now but be happy to listen to what you have to say. It's again, state your name and address for the record please. Susan Hurm: Susan Hurm, 8542 Flamingo Drive. I have a letter that I would like to read in response to Todd's letter to us. Andrews: Okay. Susan Hurm: It says, Dear Mr. Hoffman and Commission members. Thank you Mr. Hoffman for your three page letter explaining the...history of Power Hill Park. I'm sorry if we have been unclear on what we are requesting. When we first moved here our kids were 3, 5, 7 and 9 years of age. They are now all 4 years older. The only real improvement over that time has been a parking lot on the north end of the park. The park plan has been downgraded several times. The tennis courts have been removed. The trail has been removed. Even the backstop at the south end of the open play area we understand has now been removed from the plan. We appreciate your intentions to install playground equipment this year. We fully support the request to install a basketball area near the parking lot at the north end. But our request has been to install a simple backstop at the south end, as recommended by Chanhassen Park Planner... Perhaps 12 feet wide by 8 feet high with end posts even several feet higher that could be used as a pick-up softball, baseball, soccer goal or football goal posts. I talked with Park Planner, Mark Koegler who originally recommended a backstop and...fine amenity for such a park, neighborhood park. He has one near his home. The kids use it, if the kids use it enough that there is eventually grass indentations at home plate that hold water, great. Your mission has been met admirably. It can be installed for less than $2,000.00. Let's stay open to creative, inexpensive ideas that will give the kids who have outgrown playground equipment, before it is installed, something to do. Hopefully this clarifies our request. I'm sorry I cannot attend the Park Commission meeting this evening. I have to be at Shorewood Park Commission meeting at the same time. The commission's job is a tough one. You can't please everyone, especially those who purchased a house near the park who feel they need to protect, be protected from park amenities. You need to make a 8 . . . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 decision to provide recreational opportunities for the good of the neighborhood and you have our support... We hope you see the need and the logic for a simple, inexpensive request. We thank you for consideration. Now since then I see you have been very creative and I love that. I totally support what you're doing up on the upper bluff. I also wanted to respond to the comment that the neighbors didn't really agree, and we didn't sound like we agreed at first. I think...come to agreement that meets everyone's needs. I did go collect a support survey. I had 143 adults and children on Flamingo and Bluebird and Heron, and it was just, I'll give you a copy. I asked that in...whether they could put playground equipment. I told them that there would be two phases and that the ages...didn't know how old kids were and how many kids. I asked if they supported the basketball court and they...We asked them about the creative idea of using some kind of a backstop...And when we were over in Bluebird Trail, which is on the west end of the park. The...they have no way to get up to the new park we're talking about putting playground equipment and that was a real concern of their's. They have a trail that deadends inbetween the two pond areas and I know we talked about that in the first meeting. That because that was going to be filled. Kind of a dangerous thing...but they have no way of getting to that other park area unless they go totally around, up Flamingo and then into that... So I would like us to look at some way of getting them up there. I know we have a sidewalk but they can't get to it and I only got half of that street. I did not cover the whole area. I did it last night...and then after work today I went for a couple of minutes but like I said, we don't even...totally support the basketball court and we'd like you to look at some way of being creative down in that lower area and giving the kids something to do there. Andrews: Okay, thank you. As I stated, we're expecting to have the city come back with an estimate of the cost of providing drain tiling which might allow us to do something quite a bit better than just a backstop but I guess my personal opinion is, before I would even want to consider spending money on anything, I want to hear that information next month because that lower field, if it's properly drained could be really do a lot of things with that so. Susan Hurm: There were a lot of questions about what, you know we wanted something down there for the kids and they asked about playground equipment and...maybe too old for that but... any thing we want done in that area so kids have something to do. And there wasn't anyone who refused to sign up or... Andrews: We really appreciate what you're doing. I mean it shows a lot of pride in the park and that's what's important. That's what makes things happen too so. Lash: If we get that on our agenda next month, I think we will, won't we Todd. Hoffman: Yes. 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Lash: We'll be able to look at that and I think realistically, I don't think that we'd be able to tackle that this year. That might be something to look at for next year and work on it into our budget for next year once we get some price information and then we'll all work with the neighbors to find out what they want to see... Andrews: Thank you again. Todd, before we move on here I wonder if we might. Oh I'm sorry, another one. Resident: I have one clarification I guess on the first motion that you made. At our last meeting you also included picnic tables for that field area up on top. Andrews: That's sort of in a catch all. We've got general budget money for that. Resident: Okay, so that's going to happen? Andrews: Yes. Very good. Todd, I guess because we're running a little behind and I'm concerned that some of these issues that are administrative issues for us may take quite a while to get through, would it be okay to just get a feel for what people might be here for. Hoffman: You bet. . Andrews: Is there anybody here for the trail bond referendum discussion? Anybody for the rec center operation discussion? Didn't think so. Land development proposal for that office site? One there. Selection of vendors for Power Hill Park? Okay. Alright. Actually what are you here for? Resident: Will we be noticed Todd about when you plan to do something about this and you said next month's meeting was to discuss just the plan? Andrews: Yes. Resident: So that would be something that I should... Andrews: My guess is probably not because my guess is all we'll get is, we'll get fed some information about what it costs. We'd probably then schedule a meeting after that to talk about, knowing what the costs are, what can we really do. I think that's the normal way we'd handle it. Resident: So what would be my best way to keep informed about it? 10 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Andrews: Give Todd your name and address and we'll make it his job to notify you. Lash: There's always an agenda in the paper too. Andrews: Well I'd like to jump around here just a little bit to accommodate some of the people that are here for special items here, if that'd be okay. I'd like to move ahead to item 5. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND USE MAP AMENDMENT FROM OFFICE! INDUSTRIAL TO RESIDENTIAL LOW DENSfIY: REZONING FROM A2. AGRICULTURAL ESTATE TO RSF. SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL: AND PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL FOR 59 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS AND 2 OUTLOTS AND ASSOCIATED RIGHT-OF-WAY ON 46.27 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT 8470 GALPIN BLVD. AND LYMAN BLVD): SOUmERN OAKS. SHERBER PARTNERSHIP PROPERTIES. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: Is it appropriate for us to make any comment about the recommended change of the Comp Plan here? Hoffman: Sure. Andrews: Okay. Does the applicant wish to add anything to this? John Bergh: Board members, my name is John Bergh. I'm from Louckes and Associates. First of all I'd like to show you a little bit larger scale plan. I did this one purposely just so everybody could get a better view of it. Sometimes those that are folded up get some wrinkles... First of all, the reason we decided, with the owners to try and do a single family residential site here is because of the topography. It goes up and down. To give you an idea, there's approximately 50 to 60 feet of relief in here. If you're going here to do some kind of a commercial/industrial site, you're going to wipe out all the trees that are in here to level it out. It currently goes up and down by 10 to 12 feet. For example, from the top of this hill, it goes down about 12 feet. Comes up. Goes back down. It goes back up. Goes back down. It's that leap frogging type thing that happens all over. That's the reason that we decided to try single family in here rather than some commerciallindustrial concerns. What we've done is try to make a buffer between Trotter's Ridge and Stone Creek in the industrial area down in here. We've done that by making these lots deeper. We've done that also by creating some berming and ponding down in here along the Lyman Boulevard. What that does is now it takes this integrity of this neighborhood to this one and creates the buffer and 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . natural transitional zones. The next issue that we had, or actually the only real issue that we've got is, if we would, we've already dedicated approximately I think it's 7 feet here for additional right-of-way. If you would grant another 10 feet. It starts to get to the point where the actual granting or giving of the land is not the problem. The problem you've got is from this point here. From this point here down to here, it drops 28 feet in about 90 feet. Now if you try to move, and I understand Galpin Boulevard is going to be expanded and widened and the trails put in in the next 1 to 3 years. If you try to adjust the road over in here, what happens now is you start filling wetlands because of the slopes that are required. The trail would be another issue that if you move the street and put the trail out here, you have the same problem again. You've now got to have a land use site on the outside of the trail. Again you're filling into the wetlands. You're destroying this buffer of trees that's in here. The ideal thing would be to have the trail on this side. Now whether the city deals with this or the county or whoever, I think this is an issue that's got to be brought up and make sure everybody is aware of what's happening over here. The best case scenario in here, it only drops 20 feet. Worst case, it drops about 29 so, and it's a very steep hill to deal with. I know the Trotter's Ridge, they added an extra 10 feet on this side. I don't know if the intent of the trail is to be on this side or this side. Nobody is. Andrews: We don't know ourselves. John Bergh: I did talk to the County. They have got no plans at this present time. The idea of a trail coming down the western side is going to be a little bit prohibitive because of the fact that this is a large wetland in here. There's some in here. And as you come down you're going to run into a large wetland down in here. If there's a trail over in this way at all, without going into Chanhassen, you're almost going to be forced to keeping all your trails over here. I don't know where you get through here. I designed this industrial park. I know exactly what's over there. This is real garbage and it drains out at this point. As a matter of fact...Dave Hempel asked me would I design this to make sure that our drainage came down over in here because there's such a problem with drainage over in this area. So that's just a couple of issues that I think should be brought up as to why this plan was done as it is and why I've got a little problem with this and I don't know to deal with it. . Manders: This is Chaska right here then? John Bergh: Yes. This is the border right here. ...which we constructed is right here. There's a ponding area in here. This pond drains into that pond. This is a major basin in here. As a matter of fact there's problems already with water in here that's not big enough. So if you try to build a trail in here, you're going to create more problems. Andrews: Well I don't think we were looking for a trail on the west edge, were we. 12 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 John Bergh: I thought Todd mentioned a trail along the west side. Lash: I think you were talking about the west side. John Bergh: Were you talking the west side of Galpin or the west side of the project? Hoffman: West side of Galpin. John Bergh: I didn't know that for sure. I didn't catch that before. So in essence I guess that's the only issue that I can see that's a real problem is going to be how to address this, and I don't know how and who addresses that issue but I just wanted to let you know why we came up with the plan and all the reasons for it. Andrews: I've seen the Keystone brick walls deal with much more severe grades than that with very successful results. Along the frontage road along Highway 7 near Minnetonka High School. They had some real severe grades to deal with. Much more severe than this. So it can be done. Obviously it costs money. John Bergh: Oh yeah, and we did a rough cost estimate in here and to build a retaining wall along here, it runs about $12.00 per square feet. If you take 25-28 feet times the 700 feet, it gets to be pretty expensive. Andrews: Okay, thank you. Lash: I had a question, and a problem I guess. I was looking at the recommendation about the park property and I guess my first question is, what do you estimate to be the average lot size? John Bergh: I think it was just over 15,000 square feet. Lash: So like a quarter acre? John Bergh: Excuse me? Lash: About a quarter acre? John Bergh: Yes. Lash: Yeah, okay. I guess I'll ask Todd and maybe get input from some of the other commissioners on this. I think to consider the elementary site as easily accessible for active 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 use is too far. And the wetlands in the northern, the future wetland base park site at the southwest comer, I mean that's nice if you want to take a little walk through a natural area but it's not an active use. And I originally thought it would be okay to have it there with Stone Creek Park but from the sounds of it, and I don't know that we have a plan for Stone Creek, but what did you say is going to be the actual usable size spot in that park Todd? Hoffman: Very small. Lash: Very small. So if you look at this plan of the city and you look at this site with 60, roughly 60 homes, and you look at the one across and we just drove down there tonight. We were talking about those houses. There's a lot of houses back in there. Lots of houses back in there and I don't look at a small site in Stone Creek as filling the need for this part of town right down there. And we've got Trotters Ridge. They're a little closer to the elementary school but unless there's something else over in this area that's got some active use, I just don't think that small spot at Trotter's Ridge is going to cut it. Anybody else have thoughts about it? I can be convinced one way or the other. Andrews: I'm going to jump out of turn. I had a concern both about what Jan's, sharing her concerns as well as a concern of the Comp Plan itself and that would be, you know I'm a taxpayer and a homeowner here and have seen property taxes continue to climb here. I think most people would say we would prefer residential development to commercial development but commercial development keeps taxes down. Provides jobs and allows our city to provide other services for current residents so I do have a concern about the change of zoning itself. Although if I were the person living next to this, I would just rather see a house built next to me than a tip up concrete building. But I also understand that as a city we need a proper balance so I guess I would hope that the city would be very prudent and careful in it's consideration of the changing of the zoning and if the Planning Commission were to determine that this site is more appropriate for residential development, I guess I could live with that but I have a concern about that. As far as the development itself goes, I do feel that the trail easement is necessary, even though it might be more costly. I've seen too many instances where we have given up a trail because a developer or landowner has convinced us that it's just too tough to do and then 4 years later we are here pulling our hair out and spending 10 times the money we would have spent trying to find another way to do it so I do have a concern about that change. So as far as an active use park, knowing how much land we could get out of this on a dedication, I don't think that's going to do us much good. I do feel yes, we're on the fringe of what the school could provide as far as active uses go but at the same time the school would be a far nicer active use park than most citizens would have and the intent here would be that we'd have very high quality trails linking us to the school within a relatively short time so I guess I'd feel it'd be a better use of our money if this were to be built as a residential property, to consider the school to be the active use site. So my 14 . . . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 position right now is that I'm concerned about the change of zoning. If the Planning Commission sees this as an appropriate use then I would recommend we follow staff recommendation and look for the trail easements and take the fees. Lash: What could we get for land dedication, 2 acres? Hoffman: 2.5. Andrews: It's a play lot. That's about what we'd get out of it. Lash: That's bigger than what we're putting across the street. Andrews: Well Dave, if you want to jump back in here. Huffman: Well I just, I get nervous about giving away land that I think we can build parks in, even if it's small. I mean we've heard the story before and I don't want to be a militant park board member but if we give it away, we can't get it back and we're trying to ask people for more parks and for more land. I would definitely like to see the easement for the trail without question and you do have bigger lots in there. Bigger yards for people to play in. That sort of thing and that becomes an advantage of one way or another but I would not like to see the easement given up at all. Manders: Yeah, there's no question in my mind that we have to have that easement. Whether we use it or not is certainly another issue but we've got to have the easement. As far as a park, I guess I'm not in favor of having a small 2 acre park. I don't want us to have a bunch of fragmented, small parks around so I personally wouldn't in favor of it. Berg: I'd like to look into the idea of park dedication of land. I'm more concerned about the trails I guess at this point. My only request would be that we make sure that the trails are on the same side of Galpin Boulevard. Maybe that's a statement of the obvious but that we're not going from this development over to this side and having kids crossing a 3 or 4 lane highway all for the sake of maybe a little extra expense because there was a drop off. Andrews: Or building half million dollar bridges to get us across. Berg: Exactly. Andrews: Well we need a motion here and it sounds like we've got a real division, which will be interesting here so. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Lash: Well I guess I'd have to find out from what the developer said, it sounds like the topography there maybe wouldn't even be conducive for us to try to get something to turn into a little neighborhood park. I just, after hearing the people here earlier tonight, and you hear how important that is to them and how badly they want to have something there for their kids to do, I just have a problem with not trying to put something in here knowing that across the road, that one is fairly accessible but it's so small. If that was a bigger, the site itself is big enough but if we can't do anything with it, then it's not, I don't think it's going to fill the need and we just. Huffman: Well we also heard a group tonight say, they don't want anything on a piece of property. I mean they just want an open space. And what's wrong with having 2 acres of open space to go whack the ball, kick, I mean soccer is the game I'm hearing constantly now. It's driving me crazy but what's wrong with having an open space? Because the topography does play a factor in that and if that, to smooth it out and do, but you know, kids don't need a flat place to play all the time. There's nothing wrong with actually doing things like exercising and running around at a park. It's a novel concept. Playing on trees. Jumping up and down. Swinging off stuff. Having fun. I need to think about it more and hear more discussion from people but I sort of, if we give it up, we don't ever get it back. Andrews: What we need to do here is we need a motion and then we can vote on it and that way we can decide if we've got any direction. Otherwise we could all talk about. . Lash: Okay, but I guess I want to know, if this site isn't even worth taking a couple of acres on, we should just know that up front. Andrews: Okay, that I agree with. Huffman: And that's fair. Andrews: Do we have any topography information here? Hoffman: Oh sure, you have it in your plans. They'd be perfectly able to find a spot for park purposes. You have the option of, the application as it sits today at 59 homes would owe you about 2 1/2 acres if you wanted to take dedication. That will go down slightly obviously when you take 2 1/2 acres out of it so you end up to 2.2, 2.3, somewhere in that nature. And for that you're by-passing $50,000.00-$54,000.00 in park fees so those are your two issues. And that's about all. I mean they can certainly find a spot here but what you would like them to do. 16 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Lash: I know that this is smaller than what we usually have as guidelines. We usually don't like to get little bitty neighborhood parks all over everywhere like this to maintain but I think this is kind of a secluded part of town. It's right down on the border of Chaska. Andrews: There is a flat area in that park across the way. It's there. How far away are we again from the school site, distance wise? Hoffman: Just over half a mile, which is 2,500 feet. Huffman: If you can't walk 2,500 feet to go run for an hour. Like people parking at a health club. Berg: See that's a long distance for little kids. Lash: Right, right. And that road is ultimately going to be busy. You know even with the trail there, they're going to have to cross it to get to the school site and ultimately that's going to be a pretty busily traveled road I think with all the homes there and. Andrews: I have a tough one with this because I look at, we've got half a dozen other park sites that are, that need stuff and I mean it's always rob Peter to pay Paul and we're always doing it and I also start thinking geez. Go back the other way which is 2 acres of land. Boy, 2 acres of land a couple of years ago was $8,000.00. Now 2 acres of land is $50,000.00. Which way are we better off? I guess I personally feel that with a small park nearby, which again granted isn't ideal, and with a first class active facility 2,500 feet away, I have a tough time telling another neighborhood you can't have a park or you can't have your play area because we spent it here. That's just where I stand so. Hoffman: You could ask to take a second look. This thing is going to get molded by the Planning Commission, City Council and a month, month and a half from now it may not look anything like this. It may in fact go back all commercial. It may be half and half. When they originally came in with a proposal, they wanted a convenience store type of application in the southern corner there so it's changed already and it's probably one to go future change so if you want to look at it in May. Andrews: Well I asked you the question in the beginning would this come back. Hoffman: It will not come back, but if you would like it to come back, you can table it today and ask for it to come back. Huffman: But by the time it comes back. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Hoffman: Changes mayor may not be made. Berg: It may become a moot point if the Planning Commission doesn't rezone. Manders: Could I ask a question on the park that we're talking about? The small one that's in there. What's some of the history behind that decision? I guess I don't recall. Hoffman: Sunset Ridge? Or excuse me, across the street in Trotter's? Manders: Yeah. Hoffman: Trotter's to the north. Stone Creek. There was a long winded debate on that parcel as well. It's the Hans Hagen Homes dedicated about 8.6 acres of land when they really only owed the city about 6 acres of property. It's a mature creek property. Mature wooded creek property and then it comes up and it has some street frontage. Small flat spot on top and then a slope down to the bottom. Manders: So the size of the park is how much? Hoffman: The size of the open area is an acre. But again it has a severe slope right in the middle of it. . Lash: So ultimately what are we going to be able to put in there? Some playground equipment? Hoffman: Picnic tables and playground equipment. It has some trail connections which go through it. If you recall, there was a heated debate over whether or not that park should be moved out in the middle into more open space so you could create a larger neighborhood park and then it was back and forth, back and forth. This was the selected location. Lash: Well I think at the time we wanted to take advantage of the wooded area and some of that for the natural beauty there, which I still agree with, but then we've got to have the balance. And I don't know that we're getting the balance now. Berg: I would move that we table this item until at least the May meeting or the Planning Commission has made a decision on rezoning. Lash: Second. Andrews: Any further discussion? 18 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Befog moved, Lash seconded that the Patk and Recn~ation Commission table action on the land development pl'Oposal for Southern Oaks, Sherber Partnership Pl'Opel'ties, until the Planning Commission has made a decision on the rezoning. All voted in favor, except Commissioner Andn~ws who opposed, and the motion canied with a vote of 4 to 1. SELECTION OF VENDOR. POWER HILL PARK PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: I've got some questions. Just to refresh my memory as well as to educate those that may not have known. Which of these vendors have we dealt with before and what has been our experience, if you want to summarize that, in your opinion. Hoffman: The city has purchased equipment from three of the four vendors. Earl F. Anderson. The city has a majority of landscape structures, equipment within the city. It started with the redwood play equipment, which most communities and landscape structures in the south...most parts of the city switched with that trend to the metal pole systems and we have 3 metal pole systems from Earl F. Anderson Landscape Structures as well. The product and service have been good. Not any real issues. We have the one that's located at the elementary school site, which is the green and tan piece up here and so that piece lies in the school district. We also have the second vendor, Flanagan Sales represents Iron Mountain Forge. The city purchased through that Community Development Block Grant funding the piece which you saw over there which was yellow, orange, blue on the playground to the north of the school. That piece of equipment has been maintained since that time by the school district so other than the loose grab angles on it, I can't tell you a lot about maintenance. They sent down a company representative to work with, the city did install the equipment and they sent down a representative to do that. The third vendor that we've dealt with directly is Value Recreation and their equipment is similar in quality to Earl F. Anderson. At least that's what their representatives tell us and from what we've seen in the parks at Pheasant Hills this evening, I think you'd probably agree. The fourth one is Piece of Gametime, which the city has not directly dealt with. The school district, through an APT group did purchase a piece from Gametime equipment which you saw again at the school. So we've dealt with 3 out of the 4 and I believe the Park Commission's... Manders: Where was the Gametime at? Hoffman: Gametime was the piece, the second piece over at the school, on the side. Lash: Closest to the street or closest to the tennis courts? 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Hoffman: Closest to the street. Andrews: The one the kids were playing on. Well I hate going through these process because it's such a subjective decision as to what you like and what you don't like and being that I'm a little bit older than most of the users of these pieces of equipment, I think it's hard for us to really judge what's really best. I guess the most frustrating thing, and I'm sure Jan will agree with this, is that every year we get less and less for more and more and it's frustrating to see how little we can buy. My only preference, and it's only by design, is I like the Flanagan design just because it presents a circular path which I think a lot of kids would turn into a game of tag or adventure on some sort of a spaceship or something. I don't know what but that's really it. I mean I think all the equipment that we've seen has been fairly good equipment. As far as service goes, I think we've been able to get the service we require and to be honest, we can't really predict for sure what the future may bring so my preference is only just I think it's a neater looking design so that's it. So let's start to go around. Manders: I think I can rank 1 and 2 and then the other two I don't think, I'm really not as interested in them. The one that I would put number 1 is the Minnesota Wisconsin one that maybe has some question in terms of it's layout and meeting ADA guidelines but I think we can work around it. And the reason that I like it is, I think you get the most for what's offered and I think there's the most options. It just seems to me it provides you the most for your money, in my opinion. The second one that I would consider would be the Earl F. Anderson would be number 2 and then the other two would be, I guess I wouldn't consider the other two. . Andrews: Okay. Berg: I don't know. I look at this like Jim. I look at bang for the buck and Iron Mountain sort of struck as me the same way. Andrews: Which is the Flanagan piece? Berg: Yeah, yeah. But I could be swayed in either direction probably...As much of a variety as possible. Manders: So which one are you in favor of? Berg: I'll falling down on Iron Mountain, Flanagan. Lash: Okay I would, my first choice would be Minnesota Wisconsin for a couple of different reasons. I like the configuration compared to the parking lot and the homes. Here we've got 20 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 the swingsets nearest the homes. The least, probably the quieter of the activities. I think the other things get a little noisier and I like the, there's some things here I haven't seen on any of our plans in a long time. Things like a chain bar. A turning bar. Some of those kind of things. The track ride I think is very popular with older kids and some of the other structures didn't have a track ride so that was the deciding thing for me. One other one had a track ride, and I forget which one it was but I thought that it looked like we were getting more equipment for the money with Minnesota Wisconsin. My second choice, the Iron Mountain, I guess I like the circular thing like Jim said but I don't see a track ride on that one so that wasn't really in the running I guess for me. Really none, this was my favorite. I'm not even going to give a number to. How's that? That will make it easier for me. You guys can finish arguing. The other thing I was going to say is, with today's children, they have total lack of upper arm development and this one I think provides more upper arm apparatus. With the track ride, the chinning bar, the training bar, the horizontal loop ladder, the double trapeze ring. They can, that's a lot of upper arm strength. Berg: Does losing the swings bother you? Lash: The what? . Berg: Losing the swings. Lash: No, because it still ends up with 4 and that's what all the other ones had anyway so this one had two extra. Huffman: That does bug me. I like the swings. I think it would cut down on swings. There's more small kids up there that like to hang around swings. Swing for hours. Flanagan or Minnesota Wisconsin. Andrews: Okay. I had one more comment which is, as a businessman, when you put out something for a bid and the bid is sent in that doesn't meet the specs of the bid, to me that's a major black mark. These people are professionals. They were all given the same information. Three out of the four found it within their ability to provide a plan that met the specifications. To come back and say, well this is our bid but it's really not our bid, we're going to change it, makes me nervous. I just, those kinds of situations often times turn into headaches so that's the reason I didn't consider Wisconsin. We need to make a recommendation on this decision and it's not going to be an easy one. Huffman: I'll make a recommendation for Power Hills Park, we look at Flanagan Sales. Andrews: I'd like to second that one. Any more discussion about that particular plan? . 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Berg: I find myself, I'm now arguing against myself. Lash: I thought I was the only one that did that. Berg: Well no Jan, sometimes I wish you weren't here. Lash: Sometimes I do too. Berg: Because I wind up with this, I remember having this discussion every time we look at park equipment. I get to this point and I've got my mind set and then I look at the person who uses play equipment every day in her job, and I think she knows more about it than I do. I yield to your expertise on this one, if you're willing to address being an expert in play equipment. Lash: Well gee, you flatter me Fred and I work with littler kids. You know this is the next older age bracket so I can't. Berg: But you know what kids like. Lash: Yeah. I know what gets used. The swings get used. I'll tell you what is really popular and I'd like to see us put in every one is a tire swing. I mean the kids love tire swmgs. . Huffman: They sit on it for hours and hours and hours. Lash: Yeah, so you know I wouldn't have a problem at all with putting in 3 belt swings in this plan and a tot swing and maybe in a year or two put a little extension and put a tire swing on it. I think it would be great. Hoffman: You can put it right back on where you lost the two. Lash: Yep. I'm looking at bang for the buck here. What I think looks like more equipment and I agree. I want to express disappointment in anyone who sends in a bid who doesn't meet our specs. That turns me off immediately too but part of me says, I have to overcome that and try to get on with trying to get the most we can get for our money and the biggest variety of things and I think this has a nice variety. It's got several slides. It's got a lot of different climbing things. It's got a clatter bridge. It's got a crawling tube. Andrews: You're referring to the Wisconsin? 22 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Lash: Yeah. And it's got a lot of equipment to build upper arm strength so I think it really has a nice variety here. Berg: Do we know anything about their track record Todd? Is there information available? As to how reliable. Hoffman: Nothing totally objective. Lash: Well I'm assuming you wouldn't have sent one to them if they had a terrible record. Hoffman: The equipment which I purchased in Shorewood is Gametime equipment. The plan that they had down before you. You saw the piece, we did have the experience at the elementary school with the arched bridge...at the well. That piece of play equipment there so that was an issue. That's an older piece of equipment as I mentioned. Lash: How were they as far as, I mean were they willing to help repair it? Was it under warranty or was it way beyond that? Hoffman: No, it was way beyond warranty but they certainly came down and took it away and repaired it as an embarrassment. Huffman: Where are all the neighborhood residents now? We need them. You demanded it. Now what do you want? Andrews: I guess I'm asking as a commission member, what's your opinion of some of the alternatives here we talked about? Huffman: Have you seen the pieces? Did you see them when they looked, I mean from nobody's going to identify you. This is Mike, right? You know, what did you see? What do you like? Mike Korth: I'd have to take a closer look at it I guess. Lash: You know given the fact there's going to be another phase down the road. Not next year obviously but in a few years, that would be a scaled down version for younger kids so you would have more of a totlot type thing and then this is geared more for 5 and up. Andrews: This is supposed to be targeted at what age? Lash: 5 to 12. 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Mike Korth: I guess I really didn't get too much of a recommendation or input from Todd. I don't think he...detail of a lot of these. I'd like to take a little bit more... Hoffman: The method of awarding playground equipment, I'll be quite honest with you, has changed in the city of Chanhassen and I have removed myself from it for a variety of reasons. In the past I was accused of conflict of interest in making recommendations on playground equipment so that has changed. If the commission would like to reconsider that approach and if you do not feel comfortable selecting vendors, you can ask me to make recommendations. I will do that. You can also ask that the vendors themselves, the representatives of the companies are more than willing to come in and give you their half hour proposal, 15 minute proposal on each piece of play equipment. The companies who you are not considering this evening will certainly tell you that they are being beat out based on quality and on service. Not on some of the finer points of the playground equipment and I'm sure you recognize those issues but when it comes right down to it, when people call and I express what I believe the Park Commission will be selecting equipment based on, it is on the bang for the buck. The most equipment from, these are all national vendors. Certainly they're not going to be in business in doing considerable amount of business in the playground field if they don't provide some essence of quality so. That's what I can offer. Huffman: I don't have an issue saying we shouldn't decide. I don't have an issue with that. I mean I think what we're looking is, Jim and Jan have both hit on it. You spend so much and here's what you get. So I guess what we're trying to get is every penny of value that we can get. Now we're guessing for x number of residents. We're not trying to throwaway the decision and lay it off at somebody else's doorstep I don't believe, but if there is a mitigating circumstance that would weigh heavily in favor of somebody or not on somebody... . Mike Korth: One thing to keep in mind, I keep hearing you're getting more bang for your buck. Hoffman: Mike, could you come up please. Mike Korth: You keep saying you're getting more bang for your buck and I know the Gametime play structure. Andrews: Excuse me, you need to give us your name and address please. Mike Korth: Mike Korth. I'm one of the vendors, Value Recreation. Andrews: Thank you. 24 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Mike Korth: I know that it looks on there like you're getting a lot of play equipment. Keep in mind, if you see where the line cuts through there, you're losing at least a third of that and then they're going to have to reconfigure it and I'm not sure what they're going to be left over with after they're done. The second thing, if you went and visited those sites, if it comes down to one of the two that you're looking at right now, I know a lot of the people up in that neighborhood. I think you're better off serving them by going with Iron Mountain Forge of the two. Their equipment is far superior than Gametime Equipment is. If you look at that equipment over there, the paint's faded. The plastic's are faded. That's fairly typical of their equipment. It looks great in the catalog but over time it doesn't hold up. I don't know if that's appropriate for me to say that but you're not looking that seriously at my proposal so at least I'll step in and tell you which one, the equipment is better on Iron Mountain Forge. On both of them I think what you're seeing, Todd had mentioned earlier that the quality of our equipment is similar to Landscape Structures and I believe that's true also. I think we're considered a Cadillac I guess in the playground industry. When you say you get less, you might be getting more in quality. The stuff may hold up longer. Your plastics are better. They're not going to fade. They're not going to break. Moving parts are going to hold up longer. The swings that you're getting on I believe both of those proposals are what's called standard swings. Those are swings that maybe are sold a lot at day care centers and high end residential. They're not heavy duty swingsets with only two legs at each ends. So those are little things that I'm not sure if you've looked at as far as what you're getting the bang for the buck. We've cut back on some things to give you more on your design but if you are looking seriously at those two, that's fine with me but of the two, you're getting a lot better equipment with Iron Mountain Forge. Manders: And I guess the question I would have for Todd is, is the kinds of things that we maybe had pointed out when we're down at Pheasant Hills and we're sitting on the swing seeing it rocking a bit and maybe the comment that this gentleman made as far as the equipment maybe having the outer finish looking good but you know, underneath how sturdy is it. Those kinds of opinions are what I'm really after to see, is the swing made out of a 3 inch pipe instead of a 5 inch pipe that's going to stand up and stay there or is it going to fall over in 2 years. And if that's what this Wisconsin one is, then I have less enthusiasm for it. But on paper it looks like the variety and the things that Jan point out in terms of options, I think are very appealing but is it going to stand up and that's where I'm not sure. Hoffman: Again, and to clarify for Mike. The plan that they have excludes that second phase. It's not in their drawing on gametime. The one I showed on the board had the second phase. The plan they have doesn't have it. Doesn't show the second phase. The large plan that you have. Manders: Right, it doesn't. . 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Hoffman: Yeah, it doesn't have that second phase. In regard to the quality and the durability. Again, the equipment, the field visits we took tonight was an attempt to at least have you, give you the opportunity to take a look at that equipment which has been out in the field and I pointed out some of the issues when we were out there. We didn't have a lot of time. The best way to hear about quality is to have those vendor representatives in and I guess whatever decision you make tonight, I would like some additional direction in how you would, since we are seemingly struggling with this, how you would like this process handled in the future. I can sit here and if you want an opinion, my opinion on quality, I can give you that opinion and the opinion you receive from the vendors will be different in certain instances. Now again, if you want to ask for that, I've given that in the past and when I say in the past, that's been 3 or 4 years since I've made a recommendation on a selection of a vendor for playground equipment. And we don't have to go into detail why that process has changed. I think you're all aware of that. Lash: Can I ask you a quick question? And you maybe told me but I forgot. Do we have Gametime anywhere in the city now? Hoffman: Not that the city has purchased but the piece that we looked at. Lash: And that's the one closest to the street? . Hoffman: Correct. And then Shorewood has it at Freeman and at another park. Lash: And I'm assuming it comes in a wide variety of colors so we don't have to go, we wouldn't have to go with that. Hoffman: All of them come in a variety of colors. Lash: Well part of me is willing to try new things, and I think we tried that at Pheasant Hills and I hate to see us get locked in with the same vendor all the time and never try other people and we might find something new that's better. We might make a mistake too and find something that's not as good, but I guess sometimes I'm willing to take that risk. I know there's a motion already and I think it's for the Flanagan one so maybe we need to call a vote on that and... Andrews: Yeah, I was going to say, let's clear that one up. Huffman: Yeah, I'd like to go ahead and just, for the Powers Hill Park, that we use Flanagan Sales as the vendor. 26 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Andrews: We've got a motion, and who made the motion? You were. And I seconded it so we need somebody else to call the question. Somebody please do that so we can at least get. Lash: Okay, I'll call for a vote. Huffman moved, Andn~ws seconded that the Pm1\. and Recreation Commission accept the plUpOSal submitted by Flanagan Sales for the playglUund equipment bid at Power Hills Pmk. Andrews and Huffman voted in favor and the rest of the Commission voted in opposition. The motion failed. Andrews: Okay, that motion's defeated. Lash: Okay, I move that we accept the bid from MinnesotalWisconsin Playground given the alterations that will need to be done for Power Hill Park. Andrews: Is there a second to that? Berg: I'll second. . Andrews: Again, I'm going to ask for discussion. I guess I'd want to make sure that they do comply with these verbal updates that were given to us. It does bother me that a company does that. Any other discussion? Berg: What kind of warranties do we get with these things? Hoffman: Warranties are all fairly similar. There's copies of the warranties on each of the proposals. Manders: Some of them said up to 100 years. On hardware. Hoffman: 3 to 15 years on the Gametime. Andrews: Okay, we have a motion. Is there any further discussion? Lash moved, Berg seconded that the Pm1\. and Recreation Commission accept the plUpoSal flum MinnesotalWisconsin PlayglUund for the playglUund equipment at Power Hill Pmk. All voted in favor, except Huffman who opposed and Andrews who abstained, and the motion cmlied. . 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Lash: I'm going to make a suggestion that we go with a color combo similar to what we have at Pheasant Hills. Andrews: I agree. Kind of natural colors. Lash: Right. Especially in that spot. Andrews: Todd..suggest we come up with a different way to approach this. I don't know of any good way. I've been thinking myself, you know point system but I can imagine how cumbersome that could be. I also understand the predicament you get yourself in if we throw it back to you as to finger pointing or accusations of unfair or unpublic treatment. I don't know what the solution is. Lash: I don't have a problem with this process. I think this is what we're here for. We need to argue it out trying to do the best job we can and I don't think Todd needs the aggravation. Andrews: I agree. This isn't fun but we've got to do it. Huffman: Thank you very much for your help and insight. I really appreciate that. It's a tough spot and thank you for your help and cooperation. . REVIEW LIST OF POTENTIAL PARK AND TRAIL BOND REFERENDUM ITEMS; FINAL RECOMMENDATION TO TIlE CITY COUNCIL Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: If these sites are outside of the MUSA line, say we were to acquire one, like we did Bandimere, and then the MUSA line comes through there, does that property automatically end up with sewer and water service and then the city would be responsible for those assessments or how does that work? Hoffman: No. The sewer and water line would assuredly cut through this piece, or be adjacent to it. It's probably be going up and down Audubon. We would just purchase a single connection for the park building or we would tap into the water source for irrigation. Lash: No, I understand that but anyone with property, when sewer and water comes through, gets assessed usually a significant amount for that. So would the city then be responsible for paying that assessment or is that, I'm not sure how that works? 28 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Hoffman: In many cases you would be. The city is assuming a portion of the assessments at the Harstad property in Minnewashta. You're certainly, if somebody petitions for utilities, you're not going to run it through this entire piece to get to their parcel if there's another alternative because you do want to escape those costs for the city. Protect the city's interest. It's something I did not investigate. I could investigate that with the City Engineering department. They do have a long range sewer and water utility. Lash: Okay. Todd Hoffman continued with his staff report. Andrews: Todd, do you recall what our little grid came up with as far as property tax versus total dollars? Lash: I think at one time we were looking at $6 million, right? Andrews: That was the top end. Lash: Yeah, and what kind of implication did that have? That was around $120.00 a year or something, wasn't it? Hoffman: $4 to $6 million, I'll get the chart for you. Lash: It seems to me that was around $10.00 a month I figured. Andrews: I think a little more than that but it depends on what size you're in too. Lash: Well yeah. You know the average $100,000.00 house in town. Berg: And where are those again? Andrews: Which one? My number one priority was the 87 acre parcel. Parcel 3D. That to me was highest priority and I guess I'd combine that with the improvement of Bandimere because we cannot go to the citizens of this city and say give us money to buy more land when we're sitting there with 30 some or 40 acres that they gave us money for 10 years ago and we haven't improved that. I think that makes us look like fools. But I would say those two would go together. I certainly think the Fox property would be a parcel that 30, 40 years from now, after the city has been completely developed, to have a 40 acre wooded site would be a jewel that would be envied throughout the whole metro area. I would hope that we could do that one. My personal opinion of all, and also I just kind of grabbed a number out 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . of thin air which is to say we maybe need about a half a million dollars or so for the Bluff Creek waterway. I know that there's several other agencies involved with that project that have money so I'm hoping that if we have some money there, we could combine and be efficient. Lash: I have a question. Can I ask you guys input on this, especially Dave I guess, on Bluff Creek. As long as we're right there. This only includes from Lyman to Pioneer. What about all the rest of it? Huffman: Todd explained this evening that, just...! heard, he said that most of the acquisition of it has begun or was taking place north of the Bluff Creek corridor. Is that correct? Lash: North of Lyman? North of TH 5? Hoffman: The Bluff Creek corridor you're talking about? Lash: Yeah. Well on here you have from Lyman to Pioneer so I'm concerned about all of it that's north of there and all of it that's south of there. Hoffman: Okay. North of there, from Lyman north, the writing's on the wall. Developments have come through. The city's acquired land where it could. We've acquired easements in other locations. South, we essentially have two property owners remaining. . Lash: So north is taken care of already? Hoffman: Yep. North is taken care of. South you have Charles Webber, landowner. Not interested in selling the property at the present date. Interested in staying in his home and on his property for an extended period of time and then the city would need to be in a position at such time as he decided to change use of his property, to go ahead and acquire it. The other holding is the Bluff Creek Golf Course and it is on the docket for consideration. Lash: So there's really nothing we can do with any other part of it, at this time? So would we need to figure money, even though we would have, the city would have access to it north, how about money to do anything with it? Andrews: A trust? Lash: Well, not only that. Not putting in a trail even. Just grading out there. It costs money to do that kind of stuff so. 30 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Hoffman: Yeah, that's a good point. Since we do have, with the exception of one piece, the whole puzzle is put together from TH 5 to Lyman. That is a discrepancy on this list. You could put that in there as a referendum item and within the next year, have those parcels put together and build that trail from the school, along Heritage, underneath the railroad, down to Lyman and have a very nice piece of trail. Andrews: Take a wild guess, how much? Hoffman: $300,000.00 to $400,000.00. Andrews: I used $500,000.00 just as a wild guess but. Lash: For everything on here, for Bluff Creek that we could do. Okay. Hoffman: Half a million would be better with the bridges. Andrews: I mean I guesstimated a million for the Fox property. A million in round numbers for the Parcel 3D. A half million for Bluff Creek, so there's $2 1/2 million right there. I can only speak for those us that live close to TH 101 that, the frustration of having the ball constantly passed over to somebody else saying we can't do anything about it because the State. We're waiting for the State and the State's saying, we don't want it. We want the County to take it. The County says we don't want it. We want the city to take it. I'm personally in disagreement that nothing can be done there but we need to do something for the trail, if nothing else to put money in trust so that when the opportunity comes, we don't have to at that point say, well now the opportunity is here but we still can't build it because we don't have the money. Huffman: Would an effective way of doing this instead of, and again a suggestion. There's four specific items here. I think Bandimere is something we can all check off at this point and just say, that is without question our number one goal. But would it help to go 1, 2, 3, 4. Go every individual and get an opinion on each item? I'm trying to keep track and I'm going to have to take my shoes off here and use toes to count in a minute. Andrews: Well why don't we do that. That's easy enough to do. Huffman: Jim, you've already got 2 of the 4. Andrews: Yeah actually I've said 3 things. The Bandimere. The 3D parcel and Fox I consider biggies and I guess I see all three of those as things that we ought to do. 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Huffman: With Bluff Creek? Andrews: With Bluff Creek, to me the only other issue for me personally is money set aside for the trails. I personally feel that the Highway 101 trail is different than the other three in that the other three are all County roads. They're all on a time line for the County to at some point take responsibility for. Whereas Highway 101 north is a problem that nobody wants to deal with and I think it needs to be handled a little differently but that's just my opinion. I personally don't feel that we could afford to buy the golf course, and I personally don't think the Assumption Seminary is the right piece of property to invest in. That's where I'm at. Huffman: Okay. Lash: I did my little $6 million list here. I came up with Bandimere at $1.5, roughly. That gives us a little breathing space. I picked a number for Fox at $600,000.00 I guess, which is here or there. Half a million for Bluff Creek. Didn't we kick around $1.7 for the 80 acres? That's IB and 3D together. Is that right? Hoffman: 87 acres. 1.5. 1.6. Lash: Okay, around in there. And $2 million for trails. And those would be the things I guess I would list as my priorities and you add those together and it's about $6 million right there. I guess I disagreed with one of the things you said Jim. At this point, I'm not going to say I'm going to be closed minded about it. From being at the public hearing, I don't think that people would think badly of us if we asked them to purchase land, even if we didn't develop Bandimere. Not that I don't think we need to develop Bandimere but I heard a message, I thought pretty clearly from them that they thought acquiring land right now was more important than developing the property that we have because they always see that as something that can be done down the road. And I think I felt their priority was getting land now. So I wouldn't, at least point I wouldn't have a problem in seeing these things separated into 3 different areas. One, development of what we have. One of acquiring new property and one of trails and seeing what we get. . Andrews: I think your trail dollars are overly ambitious. I don't think we need to do much on the Powers, Galpin or Highway 41 because I think those all come on the County's money. I mean I know they're up for programming now. It's not going to happen for years to come but they're talking about it so. Lash: Well I was looking at including all four. I think with TH 5 having the new trail in all the way along there, I think having some north/south connections there to get people. 32 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Andrews: They're different problems. I mean the County, those are County roads. The County knows they have to take care of so. Lash: Yeah, but if it's not going to happen for 10 years, 15 years, we don't know how long that's going to be. Hoffman: If the County ever upgrades them, they'll ask for the city to pay for the trails. Andrews: Okay, whatever. Let's move on. That's you Dave. Huffman: Bandimere. Without question. Preserving the lots. Everybody looks, it looks like if there's a way we can put 3D and IB together, that looks like a pretty interesting deal. You're dealing with one individual. One group at least. You've got two uses right next to each other. You've got a unique pond in the wooded area. I think that as Todd said up north of Lyman, the Bluff Creek, we're going to get some of it. Some of it we're never going to see. If we have a segment that we can preserve and hold onto, 10-15 years from now, 20 years from now people are going to look at that and go wow. Somebody had some foresight and I think that's pretty imperative that we get some information with that. Mentioned 3D. The trail segments. Todd mentioned that we've got 9, 10, 11 miles. I know that there are people on this Board who like to bike farther than I can drive a car somedays but it makes sense if we can go up Powers and we can jump on to somebody else's trail system or if we can get up through Excelsior and get onto the railroad bed. If we can get our segments completed into Eden Prairie. If we can do some things to connect out, nothing wrong with people parking their car at a park, getting on the trail and riding for 15, 20, 30 miles. It happens every weekend. Every day. I will be the lone voice in saying, you know special interest. I think we have a unique opportunity, as many other communities have around the country, to create. There's nothing wrong with being revenue producing in funding some of the things we want to do. You've heard my piece before and if we have an opportunity here and we have a group of individuals in the community who would buy into it, I'll stand out on the point and say I still think we should consider Bluff Creek. Lash: I wouldn't be opposed to that if was a separate item on a referendum. Andrews: That's the golf course you mean? Huffman: And you know what, I'll let it stand out there. I'll let it stand out by itself. Lash: I mean if people are willing to pay for it, I don't care. Huffman: Pick and choose. 33 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Andrews: What does, I don't have a calculator. I'm just not sure of my decimal places there. If we were to take $10,000.00 an acre for that, what does that work out to be? Huffman: Too low. Andrews: Well it probably is but just as a very conservative estimate. Is that $22 million? Hoffman: $2.2 million. Andrews: That's a bargain. I'll buy that myself. I'll find a bank. Huffman: Stand in line. Andrews: Never get it for that so. Okay. I've already said my spiel so. Manders: Okay. Couple things that get my attention. Referring back, I can't get it out of my head when you talk about preservation. To me that's the biggest issue and getting to Jan's point, I think that's the big thing that I got out of the town meeting. Is preservation. To that point, are we at all still concerned going back to Lake Lucy, Lake Ann, that wooded area up there. Is that something that we're not considering here or is being not considered for a . reason? Too pricey? Not likely to happen? What? Hoffman: It's all with inside the MUSA. No one can predict when the present user of that property will terminate that use. However it's likely that it will continue for an extended period of time. It was very clear that the people, they're not going to bankroll you $2 million for something in the future. Prince Nelson is not selling his property today. So what you're going to have to wait for is at the point when he leaves the community, the property is up for sale and then you're going to have to work with either the courting developer at that point, or you are going to have to go ahead and say hey folks, community of Chanhassen. We've got a fire sale opportunity here. This has been in our comprehensive plan since day one. Can you see the vision? Can you see the trail around Lake Ann? Do you want to preserve those trees? We're going to put a referendum out to you in 4 months. That property will, a million and a half was conservative so at any time in the future, it will be over $2 million, would you like to do it. You're not going to buy the property today. Condemnation of the property would be an option. Andrews: A nightmare is what it would be. 34 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Hoffman: It's a nightmare. Hennepin Parks did it for the regional park on Lake Minnetonka so you have to put your priorities in a row and that item was low on the list of these issues. It certainly was considered. Lash: And that I think needs to be a high priority but given those constraints, there's nothing we can do about it. However, I can remember many years ago when we thought getting a park on Lake Minnewashta was a high priority and we knew it wouldn't be for many years down the road but we at that time decided it was a priority for us and we started bankrolling a little money. Every year out of our budget we took a chunk and started a fund so when the opportunity did come, at least we had a little bit of a jump start on it and we could go to people and say look it, we've been trying to save for 10 years and this is what we've got but we haven't got enough and we need you to come up with another a million or whatever it would end up being. But I think it shows them that we sincerely want that property and so I would suggest that we keep that in mind come budget time. Manders: And I think that probably would. What I'm getting at, as much as anything, is not forget about it but to do what we can to maybe keep the candle lit there. Lash: It's surprising how quick that money. Huffman: Where would you come up with some extra funds like that? Lash: We didn't come up with extra funds. Berg: We need a revenue producer. Manders: I'm not so far off center with this idea of the golf course either. I like the idea. I don't know what the probability is but I like the idea of some thought of paying our own way, if you will. And again I think it probably needs to stand by itself because if it's included with everything else, it's liable to cause. Huffman: I don't want to sink everything for one thing but I will let it float on it's own. Manders: Yeah. Hoffman: It would be a different kind of bond. You would apply for a revenue bond for the golf course. It does not impact your bonding limitations whereas the other bonds and the general obligation bonds do. 35 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Manders: Then I would concur about a park site. I guess to me the one problem I have is that it's bordering, it's benefitting Chaska as much as it is us in terms of it's location. I don't know that we have much other option but I guess I need to say that. Lash: Oh we have control of it. We have the scheduling so as far as ballfields, we have total control over there and if people want to go over there and use the playground equipment, I don't care. Manders: ...half mile distance that we try to park service, that you lose a half mile the other way because you're not, but that's fine too. And the final point that I want to make is, talking about trails, and these are the ones that are identified, are there other segments that Dave eluded to that need to be highlighted in terms of connectors or things that we can speed up that aren't necessarily part of trails? And I guess I'm thinking of, I don't know, maybe the Bluff Creek thing. Is there any things along there that we could put access trails in or new developments that are going in? Linkage points. I guess my mind running from the hook-up with Eden Prairie or getting into Excelsior or some other linkage point. Maybe even out in the western part. Are those trails complete that we're not waiting for road upgrades to deal with those? Hoffman: If there was any minor connection points that could happen, you would know about them because staff would be aware of them and even more so than that, the community would be asking for them. We're a developing community. Trails, roads, always lag behind the houses. The houses come in first and then the roads and the trails come after. It's just a matter of development. Once you get these north/south segments in there, there's going to be dozens of little connector routes for people to get out of their neighborhood onto these trails which will come up. And if there is an easement set aside, then they'll come to the fore front. But the piece, the Bluff Creek trail from Highway 5 go Lyman is a very good point. The City has acquired easements for at least 20 years in that corridor. The Sun Ridge Court piece, 15 years. The Sun Ridge trail court pieces is a long standing plat. Way back when somebody said, you know somebody's going to want a trail along that Bluff Creek corridor so let's get an easement. And then the other properties came in and there's 6 or 8 properties, starting with the school and Heritage and on down the line that have come in. The Rod Grams piece. The Chaska Business Center piece, which we've acquired either, for the most part outright ownership of the creek corridor so, but there's no funding mechanism for the trail in there. And Jan is correct, we should consider including that. Manders: I know I said the last thing but I've got to ask one more question. These are annual dollar amounts on your projected tax increment. So when you say $5 million at $100,000.00, that's $32.00 annually? 36 . . . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Hoffman: Correct. For 15 years. Manders: Yeah. Lash: So that one person in town would have a $32.00. That one. Do we know which house that is Jim? Everybody else would have a $100.00 increase. Andrews: Fred. Berg: I, of course support Bandimere. My second priority I guess would be acquisition of 3D and lB. I support the Bluff Creek waterway over Fox because of cost and because of it's proximity to the parcel that we're just talking about. To IB and 3D. But would put Fox right after that. I think looking at all the trails is a good idea. At the risk of whatever, I guess I don't have a real big problem with the golf course being a separate item but I'm concerned about perception, as I said before, and I'm just concerned that there's the perception that this is, excuse the word, frivolous. Compared to what we're talking about here in terms of selling this for the next 25 years. That these are needs that we see for 25 years and I see such a difference between the two. I understand the money making potential and I understand what you're saying. I'm just worried about the perception. Even if it's a separate item. What were they thinking of? They're telling us they need to develop Bandimere. They did that for 10 years. We're thinking so long range on all of these other things, and then to put the golf course on seems to be contradictory to the rest of the items that we're talking about here. Huffman: Noted. I can go back to last Friday's Star Tribune. Golf Magazine. lout of 9 golfers in America comes from Minnesota. We grew the largest number of golf courses in the State. Weare growing larger, bigger, faster numbers. This is a state that demands and is working towards it faster and harder than everywhere else, even with less capability of playing. Again, I will offer this is that I will not stand in the way of these other issues and items that I believe they are paramount. They are absolutely paramount and I will be willing to not fight that fight, except I truly believe that because of those other perceptions, there are and I'll go back to Jan's mission statement when we were talking about the snowmobile club. Our need is to serve all segments of this community and when I go out to Deer Run and I get out there at 5:30 on Thursday morning because I'm going to beat the rush and there's 4 groups that have already gone off in front of me, and I go down to Bluff Creek and I go out to Edenvale and I go to Bearpath and I go to Chaska and Dahlgren and we drive to Belle Plain now and I look and see, I think that if we're going to explore something, I'm not afraid to let it stand on it's own merit. 37 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Berg: I agree with you. The other difference I see with what you're saying is all these other things are things we don't have. I can still go out and play at that golf course, whether the City of Chanhassen owns it or not. Huffman: Correct. Berg: And that's I guess is crystallizing for me why I see it as more frivolous than the others. Huffman: Correct. Again, noted and accepted and I'll go right back to Jan. We need a war chest of...Jim wants. We ain't going to get it from the city government. We're not going to get it in a budget review. We're not going to get it anywhere else. And Fred, I'm willing to back down because of the other things, except that issue. If I'm wrong, I'm going to be proven well wrong but I'd sure like to see it sail it on the river first. Lash: We have no idea that they're even interested in selling, do we? Of course we have no idea if any of these people are very interested in selling. Hoffman: $4 or $5 million, you'd probably peak their interest. Andrews: I just want to kind of tag on to what Fred said. I would be afraid to see the golf course and the other bond come up at the same time. I think it would divide the vote and probably defeat both. . Lash: Even if it's a separate item? Andrews: Well yes I do. I think it would be a problem. However, I think that we as a park board could support the idea of a golf course purchase and basically kind of route it back through the City Council because I look at a revenue bond as a much different thing than a general obligation bond to buy all these other acquisitions. Huffman: What about going out? I mean if we're going to get people to come forward anyway, what better way to get public opinion and find out. I mean I don't want to lose an opportunity here also. If I can gather these people around in the voting booth, privately and quietly to get an opinion at least. I mean I've got these folks all in a room. I don't want to let them get away and then have us just sit up here and think, well maybe yes. Maybe no. You know let somebody smarter than me tell me. If they're going to come up and vote for this, it's not that much harder to move your pen down one line. Two lines. Three lines. 38 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Andrews: I think the difficulty would be communicating the concept of the revenue bond. That it would not be funded by an obligation back to the taxpayer. That it would be funded by revenue. Huffman: Can we do something then, I mean can we take "a survey" at the same time we're doing that? I mean would you like to see within the next x number of time, would you like to see this? Lash: See I see the City Council having a bigger problem doing two separate referendums. It's a costly thing to put forth a referendum and if we're going to ask for stuff, I think I don't know. I see both sides here and I guess I'm willing to go with either way on that. I look at it that if some of these things are broken down into different groups, people can go in and say yes, I think this is important. No, I don't care about this. Yes, I like this. No, I don't like that and then we just take what we get and do what we can. And if the majority of people want to pay for a golf course and think it will be. If we can substantiate it and say we've done a lot of research, which we haven't yet but I would insist on having done before we'd ever put it on our ballot. We've done research in other communities. It can produce x amount of money. We're hoping that this would be another avenue for us to fund our park and recreation system so we can develop things faster and say that we had a little thought behind it. Not that we're just thinking gee, a lot of people like to play golf, it'd be fun for us to have a golf course. But that we have a certain purpose in mind. Huffman: We can go back to Lake Ann and say we'll take the $15,000.00. The City Council won't let us take that stupid sticker off and we will provide the City of Chanhassen with a $5.00 sticker courtesy of your park and rec department. We're still paying x. I mean whatever example we want to choose. Lash: But I think we'd have to build a strong foundation that we had put a lot of energy and thought into this and that we were in agreement that we think that this would be a productive thing. If we aren't in full agreement, then we need to know that up front too and we need to have a lot of good research to back up our stand. Berg: Maybe we can take advantage of where we are in this process and let the task force take care of that. Lash: That could be too, yeah. Berg: Make sure they understand that if it's on there at all, it would be separate and let the task force look at it and come back because I don't know if I'll change my mind with what 39 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . they say or not. I'd like to think I'm open minded enough to, if it's something other than I believe. But maybe we should let the... Huffman: But you're not required to change your mind either. Berg: No, I know. Huffman: I mean you don't have. Andrews: Let the voters decide. Berg: Maybe just let the task force tell us what they think. Lash: And ultimately it's going to be the voters. I mean if it's on there, we've had split referendums before. A few years ago when they had the one for acquiring Bandimere and trails and Lake Ann Park and they were separate things and some things passed and some things didn't. I think that gives people a little more control over how they want to see their dollars spent and I think we have a better chance of getting some things rather than maybe losing out on everything. Manders: I guess to that, another question I have is, how is Chaska going ahead and spending all they are for that golf course? Something's happening there to get them to the point where they're at. What is it? . Berg: Is that their utility angle? Lash: Yes. Hoffman: For the most part, yeah. Manders: And maybe they have something that we don't. Hoffman: And they have the land already. Andrews: I have a concern, and I don't know if this is what you're proposing Jan but I would be, and again clarify if you could. Are you suggesting that we would have a series of small proposals of x for Bandimere, x for Fox, x for Bluff Creek? Lash: No. I'd have one for park development. One for land acquisition. One for trails. And one for, if we have the golf course. 40 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Andrews: All as referendums? Lash: No, separate. With a dollar amount attached to each one. Andrews: Okay. I guess I could go for it that way. I'd be very concerned if it were structured in a way of, do you want to buy the Fox property? Do you want to buy the. Lash: No. Andrews: Because then people are going to say, I want the one by me but I don't want the one by them. Lash: No, right. I'd say land acquisition. Given a dollar amount. Andrews: I think that's a good way to handle it. Because then people will vote, the citizens will choose what is more important to them. And rather than say it's a $5 million referendum, take it or leave it, it becomes a, maybe it's a $5 million referendum for me but it's a $3 million referendum for you. We get some benefit regardless hopefully in what's being proposed. I guess I like that idea. Lash: I think we'd have a shot at least of getting something. Andrews: I still have concern about putting the golf course issue on the same vote. I guess I'm concerned about division of, but just a concern and I guess I agree with what Dave said or Fred, throw it to the task force and let more minds look at it and maybe they'll come up with a better way or a better angle and perhaps even a better idea of what public opinion is regarding a golf course. I personally love to golf. I personally would love to see that golf course in better condition. I guess I'm just afraid that a $5 million price tag or a $3 might be scary but who knows so. I've heard almost unanimous opinion on the projects that we'd like to see done, other than the golf course, which was not unanimous but I heard Bandimere, Fox, Bluff Creek, Parcel 3D and 1B together and the trails. Everybody but me was in favor of linking all the trails together but I'm okay with that too. Lash: I'll just say one thing, to help you change your mind. If it was just TH 101 north, the people who live by TH 101 might like it but who else is going to want to pay for it? So this way at least you're talking the majority of the city. A lot of voters there. Somebody's going to get a benefit out of each one. Andrews: And my concern is just the opposite, which is if we fund them all, including TH 101 and TH 10 l's still not going to get built, then people will be mad as hell if that happens. 41 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . I mean it will just, that's just a fact. If I see everybody's trail but mine get built, I will be ballistic. Because that trail's been on the Comp Plan longer than anything. Lash: Why wouldn't your's get built if the money's there? Andrews: Because it's a State right-of-way instead of a County right-of-way which we have no control over. Huffman: Well there has to be some understanding about that too. I think that's a legitimate concern. I mean we can all jump up and down and say yeah, you want Highway 101. But if we realistically look and say in 4 years they're going to tear it out or where it's going to be abandoned or it's going to be something else. Andrews: There's no plan to plan. That's where it's at right now. Huffman: Well that's like 212. Andrews: I mean it's so open ended. Huffman: Yeah, it's open ended. Therefore you can't do anything. . Lash: Are you saying that because that's a State road and not a County road, that we can't put it in? Andrews: It's a State right-of-way that the State wants to abandon that the County...talked to you about is going from Kurvers Point north which is wider and more feasible and probably less risky but from Kurvers Point south, you're talking about some right-of-way problems that are just ugly. I mean you're going to have lawsuits and lots of other problems but, I mean those are again issues that can be dealt with. And I do agree with what you said. If you put it on there as a trail referendum, if you don't make it probably all or nothing, it's probably not going to go because if you're saying a trail for me. Lash: I don't care if you have a trail. Andrews: Yeah, that's right. You're going to say that doesn't do me any good. What do I want it for. So anyway, that price is out. Lash: If we stick the golf course on there, we're talking $10 million. 42 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Hoffman: I've got $6.7 in trails, land acquisition and Bandimere, approximately and then $4 to $5 million in the golf course. Huffman: And the golf course is a totally separate number. Lash: Right. Well. Huffman: Yeah, it'd have to be because that's the way you set it up. It doesn't go into the regular bond issue. Andrews: Do you need a motion to make this happen or are you just looking for a recommendation? Consensus recommendation? Lash: Can I ask a question now? With all this time and energy that we just put into this and broke this down fairly detailed, what do we need a task force now anymore for? I mean what are they going to do? Hoffman: They're going to do. . Lash: The PR? Hoffman: They're going to do the PR but they're going to do even a lot more legwork in regards to these pieces of property. You broke down, I mean I put $750,000.00 in Bluff Creek waterway. Well you're dealing with 5 different landowners there and you may. Huffman: We just publically told them we want their property. Hoffman: Sure. And you may be dealing with preservation easements...acquisition, life estates. You know these people understand that progress is coming but they want to use their property until they decide to leave so you purchase it based on a life estate. There's a lot of work for the task force to refine these. These trail numbers will change. The trail recommendations may change based on future information. You know if the City Council authorizes this, we'll go ahead and begin the information gathering phase back with the County and MnDot and they're going to tell you, well yes, you can do it. No, you can't do it here. The barriers and those recommendations will be reviewed by the task force. Brought back down to the Park Commission. Explain to the public, explain back to the City Council and then the process will continue on. Lash: And you're looking at a potential September? . 43 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Hoffman: Correct. Lash: And when's the school referendum coming, do you know Fred? Berg: I don't think they've set it. Hoffman: September would be the earliest date. In lieu of that, the City Council would certainly choose to place it on the general election for... Andrews: I do strongly agree with Jan's idea that a referendum would be presented in a segment basis. I think that's really smart. Much more likely to give the citizens a chance to tell us what they really want and willing to pay for rather than us guessing and being wrong and losing it all because we just, we blew it. Lash: You know the other thing I think that does is it helps them accept this as something that they have some choices in and some input into. How their money's going to be spent rather than us. The perception of us trying to ram, I mean people get that idea. Oh it's another referendum and they're trying to ram this down our throat. Well just lay it out and say, these are the things. You tell us what you want. Berg: I'd be shocked if one of them, at least one of them didn't pass. . Lash: I would be too. Manders: I think another observation is the administrative packet on the piece on Plymouth's referendum that you're putting together now, will provide some insights because that's coming up in May, right? For a vote. And they've got preservation as a big piece of that in trails. Hoffman: Star and Tribune's picked up on that. They called so you can look for Chanhassen in the Star and Trib as well. Manders: Good. So I think there's been a lot of negative publicity about things getting voted down but, whichever way that goes, I think will be kind of indicative of what we can expect. Lash: Well we all know the atmosphere out there and especially for the people in the Minnetonka School District. Andrews: Although I think the attitude is more anti-school than anti-preservation. I think you may be surprised. 44 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Hoffman: That was the angle that the reporter took. In these tax climates, how can you even begin to think about proposing a referendum and my response was, well it would be irresponsible not to. It's still the taxpayer's choice. They vote. Andrews: Yeah, we have to present it. Berg: We don't have the right to not give them the opportunity. Andrews: Todd, did you say you required a motion? Hoffman: A motion. I would recommend you go ahead and split it out into the four categories. State the parcels or the trail segments specifically by those categories and then give a total dollar figure. Estimated dollar figure for each category. Andrews: Yes sir. That's what I moved exactly. Hoffman: Trails would be all of the. Andrews: I move what you say and Dave seconds it. Hoffman: All five including Bluff Creek for a total of $2.5 million. The golf course would be a separate item. Land acquisition, and the golf course again I'm just penciling $4 to $5 million. I called them today. Did not receive a return call so I was not able to talk, even speculative land costs. I will confirm that number prior to taking it to the City Council. Land acquisition, I have $3 million for the Parcels lA, Fox property, Parcels lB connected to 3D, the Chaska Investment, Wallingford properties at $1.6 million, and the Bluff Creek waterway of 40 to 50 acres at $750,000.00 for a total of $3 million rounded. And then the construction of Bandimere at $1.2 so we have a breakout of $6.7 million for trails, land acquisition and Bandimere. And then the golf course at an estimated value to be determined. Andrews: I'll make a prediction, just totally off the cuff here. I predict that it will pass except for the Bandimere. I think people will vote for the preservation before they'll vote for the development. Huffman: Not if you get all your soccer buddies. Andrews: Well, I'm going to try. I move that, what you just said and Dave seconds it. Huffman: I seconded it. 45 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Andl-ews moved, Huffman seconded that the Palk and Recl-eation Commission l-ecommend that the City Council appoint a task force to consider the following items for the potential patk and trail bond l-efel-endum: All trail segments pl-esented, including Bluff Creek, for a total of $2.5 million. Land acquisition totaling $3 million for the Parcels lA, the Fox property, PaI-cels IB connected to 3D, the Chaska Investment, Wallingfonl pl"Operties at $1.6 million, and the Bluff Ct-eek watelWay of 40 to 50 aCI-es at $750,000.00. The construction of Bandimere at $1.2 million for a total of $6.7 million for trails, land acquisition and Bandimel-e. The acquisition of Bluff Ct-eek golf cOUl"Se as a sepal'ate item at an estimated value to be determined. All voted in favor and the motion canied unanimously. Huffman: Who put this together Todd? This is great. You should be commended. This is an outstanding piece and thank you for your time and effort. Andrews: I'm going to make a motion that we schedule two meetings for next month if possible and table the Rec Center operations project until then. I can't see us making a dent in that tonight with any sanity. Lash: Can you wait Todd? Are you sure? Lemme: We're starting to establish some...computer system going in...and we're needing to get done some information on the categories but we can take a stab at that and then revamp that too. They just need to get some initial input. . Andrews: I would guess that we intend to follow Chaska real close, just if I were to guess. Lash: And I think with our guidelines, as far as the park shelters, I think there's a breakdown there of resident, non-resident. Resident business. Non-resident business. And there's the jump in price from resident to non-resident too and I think we put a lot of thought into that so I, that might help you to figure. Lemme: That gives us a good start... Andrews: I don't want to attack this tonight. Well I move to table that with a probably two meetings for May in order to catch this up. Is there a second to that? I don't hear a second. Huffman: I second. Andl-ews moved, Huffman seconded to table the discussion of the Recl-eation Centel' opemtions to a special meeting in May. All voted in favor and the motion callied. 46 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Lemme: Is there anything else that you would like to. Andrews: 2 weeks. Lash: Yeah, it will only be 2 weeks. Is that going to help? I mean I hate to leave you in a spot. Lemme: No. No, that's fine. I just wanted to see if there was anything else you want me to potentially add to this... Lash: Well I was kind of thinking if you took some of the information for some of the fees and some, I mean you have a lot of information there for us to look at, and maybe put together something that you think is reasonable and we can look at that, you know based on Chaska. Based on what we've done for the park shelters and that. The differences between residents and non-residents and if other people charge set-ups. Huffman: You've got listed A, Band C and the three categories, hours of operation, room rental rates. There's a great description of staffs time there. But C is something we should probably have some information thought of before we come to you then? Use priority. Lemme: Yeah, the only thing...was the Chaska Community Center on the very back pages. Huffman: But we need to be prepared when we come here next time to be able to look at you and say, have some discussion and be able to come and help you in that. Is that? Lemme: Yeah. And Jerry has his priority list. His priorities for the field scheduling and we want to make sure that we're consistent. Lash: Right, because I was going to say, look at that too. Lemme: Right. There are some additional things on top of what you would do for...but we definitely talked that we wanted to be consistent on that. ...doesn't get a break on the facility but they do on the golfing. Huffman: Ooh, Becker has a nuclear power plant. Can we get one of those? It will keep our costs down... Andrews: According to me we can move back to item 7, program reports here. 47 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . PROGRAM REPORTS: A. 4TH OF JULY FIREWORKS CONTRACT. Ruegemer: Does anybody have any specific questions on that? The information's pretty straight forward. Lash: I move we accept the contract from Banner Fireworks for the 4th of July celebration. Berg: Second. Lash moved, Bel'g seconded to award the firewod<s contract to Banner Fin~wod<s in the amount of $10,500.00 for the 4th of July Celebration. All voted in favor and the motion canied. B. 4TH OF JULY ARlWORK SELECTION. Ruegemer: Okay, artwork selection. There are no artwork designs submitted. Hoffman: What'd you offer them, a free t-shirt? . Ruegemer: No, I offer them $75.00. And they felt that wasn't worth the effort. Huffman: Go to Chan Elementary and tell them you'll give them, you know the winning class will get. Ruegemer: Free t-shirts. Lash: I'd go to the high school. No offense. Huffman: You mean Chaska's High School or our high school? Lash: Well there's kids that go to Chaska or Minnetonka High School, who live in Chan, and they're very artistic. Ruegemer: I just ran off a couple t-shirt quotes. I did hear bids for the t-shirts for those. If the Park and Rec Commission would like, we could go forward with that tonight. The bids are laid out. 2 out of the 7 did submit bids for that. I don't know if the Park and Rec Commission would like to accept or not. 48 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Lash: Who's the front one from? Ruegemer: M.A. Apparel, and we've used him extensively in the past with the Lake Ann t- shirts and also the 4th of July t-shirts in the past. Huffman: When you're talking about Hanes Beefy T's. Ruegemer: Beefy XXXL... Huffman: Any particularly person you're marketing those towards? Lash: We need one of those? Berg: There could be a couple. Huffman: One's for my front side and one's for my back side. Is that what you're saying? Ruegemer: Well we did contact Mankato Tech...But the prices are pretty straight forward in comparison with the two bids and the Park and Rec Commission. Lash: So do you want us to make a motion to accept one of these, is that what you're saying? Ruegemer: Please. If you have enough time or if you have any questions? Lash: As much as I'd like to give the business to a local, I think with the price discrepancy here, I'd have a hard time doing that. So I'd move that we accept the bid from M.A. Apparel. Huffman: How do I object? Or open it up for discussion. Andrews: Well you need to second the motion and then it's open to discussion. I'll second the motion. Huffman: I'd like to discuss. Andrews: Any discussion? Huffman: Your choices here are a wider variety of options. I mean I really think you do. It looks like you're going to get some different sizes. You're going to get a couple of different kinds of t-shirts. 49 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Lash: What? I'm not following you. Huffman: Well, I've bought tons of shirts and hats and stuff in my life and. Lash: I bet you have. Huffman: Somebody comes to tons, thank you very much. I picked up on that. Subtly may not be my forte but I can walk a fine line. I get quality here on the second page. I'm just getting heavy weight t-shirts on the front page. I know what I'm getting on the second one. Ruegemer: Basically those sides are units per ounce. Unit per ounces. Huffman: Yeah, I'm just saying. I'm getting a good t-shirt on the second page. Ruegemer: Well basically all the ounces are basically the same. Huffman: But I'm getting a good t-shirt here. I mean I know who that is. I mean I know who, when you say Hanes Beefy T, I know who that is. I don't know who Heavyweight is on the front page. Andrews: We're talking $3.00 a hat difference too. That's a heck of a difference. . Huffman: Well that makes me nervous too. I mean why am I getting one at $5.55 and why am I getting one at $8.50? Ruegemer: You're dealing with volume too. Andrews: Any other discussion? I mean that's good points. Berg: You get what you pay for. As long as Dave's paying, I say go for the. Andrews: Yeah, if you want to pick up the difference, we'll go. Huffman: There you go. I'm buying a golf course, never mind. Hoffman: These are self supporting...what they costs. Huffman: Last year, have you sold them all? Do people want more? Have you had prices? What was the price last year? 50 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Lash: Well I have like 7 of them. I mean I have one from '88 or '89 or something. Andrews: All the way from Chahassen on. Lash: Yeah, I have one that says Chahassen. I've never had a problem with them. Andrews: Basically one week, to be important, you know they look good for one week. After that, it's sort of like ah. What do you use them for? They say 4th of July '95. Well there's only the 4th of July '95 once. Berg: Actually they don't say '95. Manders: Yeah, just leave the year off. Lash: The Lake Ann ones were very popular I heard from a lot of people last year so we want to make sure we get more of those. Andrews: Any other discussion? Lash moved, Andrews seconded to awanl the bid for the 4th of July Celebration t-shirt and hat printing to Minnesota Athletic AppaJ'l~I, Inc. All voted in favor and the motion canied. Andrews: To get back to your question on the artwork. Where's the artwork going to come from? How are we going to do this? Ruegemer: Well basically right now, since we didn't have any artworks submitted we'll just, if there's anybody in particular that the commission has liked in the past, we can certainly go and have it designed and developed. Lash: What if you sent a contest thing to both Minnetonka High School and Chaska High School. Give it to the art teachers. The $75.00 prize for the one that gets it. Hoffman: Great idea. Lash: I have seen some fantastic artwork. Andrews: $100.00. Huffman: Well the kid who is designing your next year's yearbook. 51 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Lash: ....1 mean you cannot believe the work he does. I'm assuming there's going to be somebody at that other school that could do it too... Hoffman: They'll come cheap. They'll put $100.00 down as a scholarship. Huffman: Well, award it as a $100.00 scholarship from the Chanhassen Park and Rec Board to use at the College of your choice. And then you get good works in the paper for awarding scholarship. See what we can do as a Park and Rec Board in your community if we had more space. Andrews: I move that we open a contest to the two high schools serving our city with a first prize award, or with a selection award of $100.00. Is there a second to that? Berg: Second. Andrews moved, Berg seconded that the PaIk and Recn~ation Commission open a contest for the artwOlk for the 4th of July Celebration to the two high schools, Chaska and Minnetonka, serving the Chanhassen area, with a selection award of $100.00. All voted in favor and the motion canied. C. CANDY HUNT EVALUATION. . Ruegemer: The candy hunt was last, April 15th, that Saturday. We did have some unforeseen severe weather with lightning and rain and the whole ball of wax but, we had to go with Plan B as far as to keep the area basically inside and quick thinking that day. Just turned it into kind of a trick or treat type of an atmosphere and hand out candy to people as they exited out after the entertainment. I was not here 6 years ago and did not live the experience of having it inside, which I would have tried again but I wasn't there to experience that. So this really did work out very nice and I think should be a standard practice for future years. Huffman: There was no picture in the paper of the Thursday after of the Easter Bunny wandering around. Was there? Lash: Yeah there was. Huffman: Oh I didn't, I was out of town. Lash: If you look in here, it's in there. Okay, that was a test Dave on who read their packet. 52 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 Huffman: I didn't. Lash: Obviously. Huffman: I did not. D. PARK PRIDE DAY. Ruegemer: Park Pride is coming up this coming Saturday, the 29th. As part of the Park Pride Day, we're having groups tune up our parks as well as we're having another, or not another but a ceremonial centennial tree being planted in the clock tower area just east of the Medical Arts building. That will be Saturday, approximately about 11 :30. You all have, or will be getting, it should be there either today or tomorrow, letters. Just an invitation requesting your appearance to be there, if at all possible. We will be serving hotdogs and sodas and chips and that type of thing just for everybody that will be there. We'll be planting the tree that was donated by Wilson's Northwest Nursery as just a portion of their support to the centennial. And also the Chandeliers, the senior chorus group will be there singing. We'll have the paper there. We'll have all the groups there so it should be a real festive atmosphere. So if you're around on Saturday, please attend. We'd love to have you. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTA nONS: Andrews: Okay. Any Commission member presentations this evening? Excellent. Any highlights to the Administrative section that need to be made? Hoffman: Motion for a second meeting in May please. Berg: So moved. Andrews: Second. Berg moved, Andrews seconded that the PatH. and Recn~ation Commission amend their By- laws to have a special second meeting in May. All voted in favor and the motion callied. Andrews: I have nothing to add here. Berg: Two weeks from tonight? Andrews: Second Tuesday of May. 53 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 . Hoffman: May 9th. Andrews: Is that what it is? Okay. 7:00 start again. Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: And I guess I'd appreciate keeping that one as short as possible. Yes sir. Resident: Jerry, how are you organizing the park clean-ups? I haven't heard anything about that. Ruegemer: It's been advertised in the local newspaper. The brochure. Resident: Is it volunteer? Ruegemer: Yes. Resident: Okay. And when is that? Ruegemer: On Saturday, April 29th. . Hoffman: And for the most part, neighborhood activists or community group leaders call in and say we've got a group who will be willing to participate. The school group is participating by planting 400 tree seedlings in Chan Pond Park. The Boy Scout troop is working with Jill Kimsal in Curry Knoll Park to plant about 250 tree seedlings and... Ruegemer: Yeah, we have different Brownie groups, Cub Scout groups, Girl Scout troops, that will be participating on Saturday. Hoffman: So, and then Jerry assigns them a park site for them to go out and clean up. Bring their trash back up to, this year it's at the Town Square, the clock tower, to collect the trash and eat a hotdog. The school called today and they're going to have ice cream there. Left over ice cream. Four barrels of ice cream so. Huffman: Do you have a list of all the parks taken or not taken? Ruegemer: Yeah, Rice's taken. Hidden Valley trail is going to be done. Bandimere, the neighborhood park will be done. Lake Ann, up around the ballfields. Lake Ann's really been getting hit lately but just around the ballfield areas will be done. Meadow Green will be done. Lake Susan trail will be done. Carver Beach, inbetween the mini-park and that trail 54 . . ,~ ~. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 25, 1995 along the whole lake will be done. And so we're blanketing I guess or covering a variety of different areas. Hoffman: Chan Pond will be cleaned by the elementary school classrooms. They've adopted Chanhassen Pond Park. Lash moved, Mande~ seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion canied. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 55 . . . /h CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREA nON COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING MAY 8, 1995 Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Jan Lash, Dave Huffman, Jane Meger, Fred Berg, Jim Manders and Ron Roeser MEMBERS ABSENT: None. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor Andrews: Due to a possible confusion of published starting times, we'll begin with item 7 which is program reports and we'll start at item 7 and go through item 10 and then we'll go back to the beginning at that point. PROGRAM REPORTS: A. PARK PRIDE DAY. Ruegemer: Thanks Jan for helping out with Park Pride Day. Lash: Oh you're welcome. Ruegemer: Park Pride Day was April 29th. We had a fairly decent turnout this year. Kind of rainy but nonetheless we collected nearly half a ton of garbage. Filled a city dump truck with a wide variety of things picked up...appliances, deer skulls, everything. Hoffman: Dave's back yard. Huffman: You didn't get my yard cart? Ruegemer: But we had a good turnout for that. Probably 100 to 175 people. As far as Park Pride Day II. The centennial committee dedicated a ceremonial tree which has been donated by Wilson Northwest Nursery. We had Mayor Chmiel out there and he said some very nice words and kind of a blessing I guess of the ceremonial tree and the Chan-o-Iaires were out singing. It was really a nice touch as part of the centennial. Centennial year. Medals were given for kids that collected the most refuse and we found that...thinking next year have it for every participant. We'll give them either a medal or a certificate or a ribbon or something like that. Just so everybody feels that they did a good job, which they did this year. So...as far as the revenues...so, does anybody have any questions about anything? Good. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: It was great Jerry. Ruegemer: Thanks for helping again Jan. The dogs were the best yet. Good job. ADULT BASKETBALL LEAGUE. Ruegemer: The adult basketball league evaluations. ...played adult basketball. Roeser: I don't know why we just don't drop adult basketball after reading that. Those reports, I'll tell you. Before somebody gets killed. Berg: The referees take it in the chin all the time but at least half of them were going after the time keepers. Roeser: Time keepers, the referees, they're all. Ruegemer: Yeah, it's really that way across the board. Across the whole Twin Cities area with adult. It's not just Chanhassen. Chaska have problems with their adult basketball league. It's one of those deals. There's 5 times or 10 times worse than softball players out there. It's really that way every year but we certainly will look ahead to next year and try to . improve things...see that program continue. Hoffman: Can we ask them to coordinate their own? Ruegemer: Totally coordinate the whole thing? Hoffman: Sure. Many communities help coordinate their adult sports through...have some correspondence with the baseline organization, whether it be a park department or park board or city staff. Andrews: So in other words, they'd just arrange for the space and they'd administer the whole. Hoffman: ...they administer it. If they want referees, they hire referees. If they needed a bus, it's their ball. Lash: So sort of a CAAA. Chanhassen Athletic, Adult Athletic Association. Hoffman: Just for this single sport. Let them see the other side of the fence. 2 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Huffman: Well you can do this down at Northwest. If they were to do this kind of behavior, they'd throw them out of the building in 30 seconds. We're not allowed to do that and normal people don't. Berg: Do we lose any control over the scheduling if we have them go independent? Hoffman: We would have to do scheduling. Berg: So we wouldn't lose anything there. Lash: Maybe we could go into next year with the suggestion Jerry's got in his report but say to them, we're open as to this. Here's another option, are you interested in that and if they say yeah, let them go with it. If they say no, say well, then this is your last chance. If you can't be good this year, then next year. Berg: Maybe that should be said now. Huffman: Look at them right now and say here's the deal folks. You screwed it up. You've lost it. You come up with the officials. You come up with everything. We're going to rent you court space or whatever. We're done. It's all in your hands. We're finished. Berg': We saw these same reports a year ago. Huffman: It's over. It's done. No more. Ruegemer: Even with increased suspension... Huffman: No. You guys do it. If you can't do it, go away and go home. Andrews: I agree. I mean why, dump the headache on them instead of us. Ruegemer: One big problem is the perceived official problem but they did call, after an incident they did cal1...the rest of the year so they didn't seem to have a problem... Manders: I guess if that's what you would rather see, that's fine with me too. That they would call their own games and forget about organizing officials. Ruegemer: That's you know, in my opinion I think that would be the much better option at this point for them calling their own games. 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Andrews: That's what Todd's saying. Let them administer their own game. Lash: No, Todd's saying let them just schedule. Andrews: That's right. Schedule it. Get the refs. Lash: Now Jerry's saying, just let them officiate. He'd be the organizer. Berg: He'd still be the coordinator. Lash: He'd still be the coordinator but they'd be their own officials. Andrews: It's not a heck of a lot of difference to be honest. I mean if you just say, here's your, you've got x number of hours on this night, this night and this night. Ruegemer: With that too, as far as turning over the league to them, it might pose to be more of a maybe a hardship in maybe getting space...facility process is kind of set up. You know if we sponsor the program, it's easier for us to get space versus an independent. So that might be an issue they might want to look at. They would need to provide their own msurance. . Huffman: I'd rather see them do this. This is a pain. So what? I mean you've got to do this too and it's a problem. They're not doing anything to get better. Go clean your own house up. Let them do it. I've got no issue with that. I don't care if it's their problem. Let them take care of it. You can schedule through you and if it saves you a headache and you a hassle, I'm all, I mean we've got kids out there we're trying to work with and help get better. I don't need some yo-yo jumping up and down complaining. Berg: And setting a bad example. Andrews: I'm sure it's just a few that wrecks it for the majority, as it always is. There's always a few people that get their competitive juices going a little bit and think they're professional material when they're not and they can't control it. You know, they just get out of hand. Hoffman: If they coordinate it themselves, that forces itself...whereas the other players...city of Chanhassen would be the coordinating agency... Andrews: We get all the whining calls. This way it will be self whining, which is what we want. Do you need a motion to make this happen? 4 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Hoffman: That would be great. Huffman: I'd be happy to make a motion. Is there somewhere in here that I can actually read something? Andrews: No. You have to. Huffman: That the adult basketball league next year be required to come up with their own organization and own system. That it creates their own officiating. Their own time keepers. That we still maintain space and they have to go through the Recreation Supervisor to find space and schedule time but all other duties and responsibilities are incumbent upon the own adult basketball league. Andrews: Second. Any more discussion? Huffman moved, Andl-ews seconded that the Park and Recl-eation Commission direct the Adult Basketball League to come up with their own organization and own system for next year. That it cl-eates their own officiating. Their own time keepers. The City of Chanhassen Park and Recl-eation Department will continue to maintain space and the Adult Basketball League will have to wOlk thl'Ough the Recl-eation Supelvisor to find space and schedule time but all othel' duties and n~sponsibilities ar-e incumbent upon the Adult Basketball League. All voted in favor and the motion carlied unanimously. Lash: You guys play hardball here, whoa... Berg: I think with these kind of people too, they're not going to learn unless you hit them between the eyes with a 2 x 4. Huffman: I played with those yo-yo's for years and years and Jim was right. They think they're somebody. Play basketball. Enjoy the game. Don't, you know, you ain't in the playoffs. You're not in the big's. Go play. Andrews: It's not life and death. Huffman: And they can't get it and they're going to use Jerry and Dawn and other people's excuses instead of facing up to the reality that they're not really that good and it's just a game. Go play. Lash: So do you have a way of doing that. Contact people for you to just send letters to. Make sure it's plenty of time so that they know they need to get their act together. 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Ruegemer: Yeah, I'll do that sometime during the next week here. Draw up a letter and get it out to them. Players that played in 1994-95. Andrews: Okay, good. Item 8. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTA nONS: A. MAY 15. 1995 JOINT CITY COUNCIUPARK AND RECREA nON COMMISSION MEETING. Hoffman: If this meeting came as a surprise to you, it did to me as well. The Office Manager said that they...did you know that the City Council has scheduled your joint meeting for May 15th? I said, no I did not. We'll go ahead and facilitate that so it's a Monday evening. The City Council has their present work schedule or their work sessions. This is our time with the City Council. I was asked that the Commission...suggestions regarding the agenda for that meeting. I probably know where you're headed and we can go ahead and offer some suggestions for a meeting format. It's been formatted in a variety of ways. There's a couple of ways...more effective than others so...request in that regard. Lash: Didn't we just have a joint meeting with them? . Berg: Yeah, to discuss the referendum. Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Okay. So that doesn't count as our annual joint meeting? Huffman: Can't we just do that again and look at it and say, we're back? Do we have anything else to discuss? Hoffman: They approved the referendum task force. Forming the task force last evening. Andrews: I know last year I thought the joint meeting, and we made an effort to have an agenda and it just kind of didn't happen. If I remember it correctly, we just sort of talked for like a half hour, 45 minutes. I didn't feel it was very productive. I thought it was. Lash: I think last years we got hung up on the goals, on staff goals which to me could be done with just staff. I really personally don't think we need to sit and. Andrews: I agree. This is our opportunity for the long term picture here. What are. 6 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: I'd be interested in having more open communication with them regarding this referendum deal and the task force and the priorities and see if we're in sync here with them before it moves too much further. Berg: I'd like to hear more their point of view. Andrews: I guess another thing I have an interest in, which is not directly related to Park and Rec. And incidentally I'm going to be out of town that day. Is there any way when they create these TIF Districts, that we can capture any money for trail construction on some of the areas. Again, the Highway 101 or possibly Powers or Galpin or whatever, and we can capture those TIF dollars. Every time I've ever talked to Council people or Todd or Don, it's been kind of presented to me that these TIF districts are kind of fading out. They're dying. There's really not much more we can do and then I read in the paper that they've just done another one. It's like, which is it? Are they available or aren't they? Can they be tapped for any park activity? It seems like it can be a fairly deep pocket as far as dollars go. I've heard discussions, this so called entertainment complex downtown. Is there any role for Park and Rec in talking about that? I guess I think there probably should be. So I'd like to see us included more in Council's ideas of the downtown when it comes to recreation and activity. And also with the HRA, I know sometimes they get a little excited about spending money. I'd like again for them to talk with us or us talk with them if they're talking about doing things that we can do some coordination on. For those of you that are new here, a couple years ago, the HRA came with their vision of the Rec Center. Lash: Well, at this site. Andrews: Yeah, and we'd never heard a thing about it. So all of a sudden here's our $12 million or $6 million program. It's like, oh great. When do we get to have our input but anyway, that's just. We need to have better communication with places where the money is and HRA is one of them and TIF districts are a potential other so. Lash: I also heard a little rumoring of some type of a youth, some talk of a youth center somewhere or, actually specifically somewhere, and I guess I'd like to hear more about that. If that's something that's coming from City Councilor if that's private enterprise. I've heard a little bit of both I guess and I think that's something we need to have some input into also. Andrews: Any other issues? I can't make it that night. What was the starting time of that going to be? Hoffman: Probably 7:00 or 7:30. 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: Will you be sending us an agenda? Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: Please let me know what the starting time is because I'll be getting back early evening so I might be able to make it so I'll try to make that. Hoffman: A couple of comments...open communication on the referendum. The City Council asked for more information on the referendum and last night that was presented. At the meeting they said, you're going to have to bring more information than what...and they said, well. We really...they saw the Star and Tribune article on Monday...they're talking about preservation of open space and also trying to... Huffman: You did a very nice job in that article also. Quoted very nicely. Hoffman: Talked for 10 or 15 minutes and the reporter when she first called asked me, how in these times of tight taxes can you even think about having a referendum...My response...as the commission and city looks at those issues, it'd be irresponsible for us not to. ...and talking about increased valuations and tax levies across the community so they see both sides but they're more than willing to take a look at... The Manager's comment in regard to bonding, . you know simply as we stated before, whoever gets in line first. If the storm projects get in line before the referendum, they're going to get funded. We have the $10 million annual cap in order to keep our bond...in order for bonding limitations. The golf course could be sold through revenue bonds so you didn't have that limitation. It's not part of that $10 million. So they talked about that as well. They say, well if this is what the people of Chanhassen want, that's what they're going to get and we'll put this... Lash: Did you get a feel on any of the items? Hoffman: They appreciated the prioritization. They thought, when you went ahead and provided that list, that they were in priority starting from 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and they seemed to think that that's how it ranked...those that did make it and those that didn't make it and I expressed to them that it was your opinion, at least in rough numbers, that most likely all those things had a chance of being funded under that $4 to $6 million cap. We've notified all the landowners and they've responded. I've been very up front that I said the city's in no way going to force anything upon landowners. If you're not a willing participant, thank you very much. Our interest in your property was sincere but we're not going to chase it down. So we had three landowners represented there last night. None of them spoke to me and this item, which occurred at 11 :30 last night at the City Council so maybe that was... And the landowners stuck throughout the entire meeting so they're obviously interested in what the 8 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . . process will become. The task force now, notification will go out. The map will probably hit the paper. I know...today picking up information so you'll see something this Thursday in the Villager in regards to this...The TIF District, DataServ is looking at expanding and the tax increment financing that will be produced by that expansion of DataServ has been talked about for the TH 101 trail. I spoke to Tom Workman last night and Tom said there is some activity on Highway 101 at the State level so he said...find out exactly what the discussions are that are taking place there. The downtown entertainment complex again...movie theaters and that type of thing. I don't believe is included as any public recreational facility at this time but I'll find out for sure what elements that includes. For the most part I think it includes moving Pauly's into the Filly's building and building the movie theater. As far as the youth center, it's two fold. Mayor Chmiel has been a very strong advocate of trying to have a youth center. In fact at one point he proposed taking Pauly's out of their lease and operating that as a youth center. Then the other one was...called and said, there's too many keg parties in the school district. Can we do something in lieu of that? How can you help us out? There's been correspondence with that person that... with the Mayor and some other contacts on that effort. One of the concepts is to go ahead and schedule the Friday and/or Saturday nights either at Lake Ann or Lake Susan Park. Have the City Council authorize after hours so youth can stay in the park from 9:00 until midnight and then offer, you know Lake Susan's a perfect location. It has a lighted parking lot and access boulevard. You have the baseball fields, volleyball and basketball and park shelter. So and then, the person that I spoke to, Gary O'Neill, lives out in Utica Circle said well, they're already doing that and I think if you talked with Scott Harr...half a dozen of them in out of Lake Ann...so we've got to form our programs so they have an alternative to the programs they're involved with. Andrews: I think you ought to look at some sort of musical entertainment if you really want to get kids involved. Lash: Okay, and this is all...and so I heard the private thing and I heard the Mayor's feeling on it too and I bounced it off my daughter, who now is at prime teenage years, and she thought the...idea of something at Pauly's was great and I said, well like what kind of things would you want to have. You know pool table, ping pong table, pinball machines, foosball, you know I'm thinking. No. We just want a CD player or some kind of a music system and some open space so we can just go up there and hang out and sit around and dance and be together. Huffman: Call up the malls. Lash: And I would be very leery of some kind of deal at one of the parks because there's too, I look at that as...too many opportunities of slipping away into the woods and who knows what all kinds of stuff could go on back in there. Unsupervised. To me that would be, I . 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . know. So personally I wouldn't even let my teenager go to that if we sponsored one so. I wouldn't get into that. I think something inside that can be closely supervised of who's coming in. Who's going out. Some of those kinds of things are fine but... Andrews: Maybe we need to look at a high quality stereo system for over at the new rec center as something we can, you know portable. We can put it in the closet, but when the kids are there, you can roll it out. Have some music. Berg: Well and some way to have some pizza or something like that. They'll come if there's pizza's there too. They're real cheap. Andrews: If you really want to get the kids excited would be to say, here's a budget. Tell us what you want. Berg: We do have the Youth Commission. That might be pretty valuable in helping with this. Get some ideas. Lash: And it would be certainly easy enough to round up a couple of kids too and get, local kids and just get some input. You know put in some vending machines. Couple of pop machines and some junk food and add a little music. Cheap stereo set-up. . Andrews: Not cheap. Good sound. Anyway, okay. Hoffman: Additional items on the Council update last night. There was, as I informed you earlier, the Harstad plat was approved. Preliminary plat. That included the 8 acre park and Kings Road...next month, month and a half. At the time of final plat, they'll make the signatures. The City will...park property. In the meantime, we need to make a determination on the fate of the buildings. We've written into the development contract that it would be their responsibility to raze the buildings but we need to determine if there's any value there. The problem is not, the round house, the water tower house has, as was quoted last night, historic value and I believe that's within a 2 block radius of this that that has historic value. Andrews: I think we'd better get those buildings down as fast as we can. Because otherwise somebody will try to keep them and then they can really mess up the active use plans we have out there if you've got buildings to work around. Hoffman: ...and stop thinking about public...and start thinking about development. Lash: How about development? What can we look at as a timeframe there? 10 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Hoffman: Plug it into the 5 year CIP. The park budget will be on the hook for the entire $30,000.00 an acre which will be times about 6.2 acres by the time you get through with the dedication. And then we'll also...for half the assessment of the road. Andrews: About $50,000.00. Hoffman: $110,000.00 to $120,000.00. Andrews: Is our share? Hoffman: Our share of the road construction. $200,000.00 for acquisition. $120,000.00 for the road. I set aside $350,000.00 in reserves. The current operating budget of the... Andrews: That's what it's there for. I mean we're using it for what it's there for and we're going to get a super good quality park out there. That will be good. Berg: Is there any point at this meeting on Monday to revisit the old horse of trying to get some budget out of the City Council? Hoffman: Absolutely. The change in the budget structure of the park maintenance under the assignment of the Park and Recreation administration, we can capture some additional dollars but we have not captured a single dime from general budget for park acquisition... Andrews: We do now have a full time, heavy equipment operator for the park budget? Hoffman: Yes. Andrews: So that person would be capable of doing like rough grading on a site like the new Minnewashta Park. Hoffman: You bet. You mean earth moving? Andrews: Or dozer or whatever. Lash: So could we do final grading and seeding? Hoffman: Sure. Lash: At least if we can get that done, it's usable. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Andrews: Yeah, for something. Soccer games. Roeser: You soccer people are certainly one, narrow minded. Andrews: Soccer and TH 101 trail, that's me. Alright, let's move on here. Hoffman: ...In light of the agenda, I would think that we may have some people showing up at 7:30...we've gone this far. They probably saw the 7:00 start, which they're used to, because...that's all I have. Lash: What about the 23rd? Is there anything that we need to know about that, besides the fact that you won't be here? Hoffman: No. The report will go out... COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: Andrews: Any commission member presentations tonight? Lash: I have one quick question. I noticed now that I've been down on the trail between Greenwood Shores and Lake Ann that there are a lot of trees that were taken down back in there. I'm assuming that was city staff or someone like that. I mean they were diseased or what? . Todd Hoffman's answer was not able to be heard on the tape. Lash: Okay. I personally didn't have too much of a problem with the clean-up but I did hear from someone that they thought there wasn't a very good clean-up job done so if you want to check into it. Hoffman: ...further up and natural areas along side there. Lash: Well, and once everything grows up, you're not going to see. Manders: Well I've been through there and I didn't think it was that bad. Lash: Yeah, I didn't think it was that bad either. Berg: I have one question and one comment. Any more communications with Mr. Kraft? And his concern about the way the equipment was selected. 12 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Hoffman: I spoke for about 45 minutes the evening I received that letter and I believe for the most part, he's very interested in getting the most for the neighborhood of Power Hill Park and coming from a corporate atmosphere where things are very strict and you analyze and make recommendations. Those were some of his, the analysis behind the reason why he thought the staff...field of park and recreation and he went through the explanation...Hard to put a finger on anything. That's why the conversation went on for 45 minutes. Mr. Kraft was also... Lash: But it says on here, that we do not even know. The Park and Recreation Commission does not even know what they have approved. Hoffman: That's based on the fact that the...playground had to make some adjustments and they were very...changes and they were approved. Lash: So his basic frustration is that we didn't get your expert opinion, or that you didn't make the choice, you being more knowledgeable in this field? Hoffman: That's part of it. Huffman: Does Mr. Kraft also realize that that's not their park. That's our park. That's the city of Chanhassen's park and that we're trying to make everybody's decision and make everybody happy. Hoffman: I think so. That's why the commission has been appointed... Lash: Did you mention to him that at the previous meeting that I had suggested that the neighborhood get together and come back and tell us if they had any suggestions for the playground equipment and if they knew the age range and all of that? Does anybody remember me saying that? I don't recall seeing anything come back from them so. Hoffman: ...he's concerned about the, he's got 4 boys I think. Lash: So he says here that he'd like to know what needs to be done to challenge and revisit this decision. Does he want us to pick someone else? What does he want? Hoffman: Yeah, I said...he was fairly comfortable with that. Obviously this letter was on my desk at 8:00 in the morning so he wrote it that evening after the meeting. Andrews: I've got a couple of items for commissioner requests. Commission member requests for you Todd. One would be to do what you could to keep me updated on this TH 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . 101 activity. I'm interested in it privately but I also think as a commissioner it'd be nice to keep closer touch on that. That's a pretty major trail section that's been difficult to get coordinated. Also, as a result of our prior meeting and our inspection of some of these properties that we drove around, I don't know if you had any contact with Tonka United about the Tiche property. Hoffman: Sure did. Andrews: There's a real interest there and I don't know, if as a city if we really can provide much assistance there but I think it would be to the benefit of the city if that were to be obtained for a recreational use. So whatever you could do to help those people. Hoffman: Called them back and I think the property is sold. Andrews: Is it already? Well, that's the way it goes. Hoffman: I'm tracking down the realtor to confirm that. If that's a pending offer...and also left a message with Tonka United. Lash: I was curious on the 4th of July logo. If you had set up, tried to set up a contest or some kind of thing. . Ruegemer: Yeah...contacted both High Schools. Kim Roderick down in Chaska too...and then also...up at Minnetonka High School and I did mail out some information...but it sounds like he was going to make it a class project and...so that was I guess a little bit uplifting... Lash: Did you decide to go with a cash prize or scholarship? Ruegemer: Scholarship. Lash: Okay. I mentioned it my daughter and of course she immediately thought of a fellow student who is just artistically. Berg: When I talked to, as a matter of fact today I talked to him. He hadn't heard anything about it and. Lash: Right, and she was just with him Saturday night and I said, did you happen to mention anything about this contest? Does he know anything about it? And she said, no. So I told her about it and she said, kids would really rather just have the money. So I'm sure that's 14 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 probably true. $75.00 seems like a lot for a kid and a scholarship when they're a freshman of sophomore seems like. Roeser: I have one thing. You know we only talk about TH 101 north all the time, as far as the bike trail is concerned. TH 101 south is bad, if not worst. Is there anything, I mean in the trail, coming up with this referendum that's going to do anything about that? I talked to a lady who lives on County Road 1, you know. She says there's kids, there's no way they can get to Chanhassen safely on TH 101 south either. It's as bad, if not worst than TH 101 north and I think we've got to think about that part of TH 101 too. I realize with 212 and all this, that we can't do anything but if we're going to develop Bandimere, I think we've got to think about a trail, some safe way of getting from here to the bluffs. Yeah, or down to Bandimere, yeah. Hoffman: ...because of that extension of TH 101 south and the new road. Again, that will... The land use as you drive south and you see that vacant farm property there off to the east, on the left hand side, that will not change. You know Mission Hills will develop and there will be some other residential there but the 212 right-of-way has to remain in an open state. So then you have, should we build on the old TH 101 or should we wait until the new TH 101. The Chanhassen Hills folks have been, they've been trying a long time for this trail connection into downtown Chanhassen or into Chanhassen or into Lake Susan Park. That will happen this year so that will appease some of that voice...Chanhassen but as far as the Rice Marsh Lake trail, and be down old TH 101. Lyman Boulevard will be upgraded within the next 3 to 5 years. Lyman Boulevard will have a trail running east and west...go from Rice Marsh trail to Lyman and then at that point. Roeser: You'll be into Bandimere at least. Hoffman: ...it's probably... Roeser: I just think it's something we've got to think about for those people down that way too. Hoffman: Old TH 101 will be...and to reach that coming north, as you reach that tight area there, near the lake, that will be cul-de-sacked and all the traffic will be traveling on the new TH 101...Chanhassen Hills. What I'll bring forward is on the feasibility studies. The feasibility studies for Highway 101 south was the...long ways back, about a year and a half, two years ago and that included all of the pedestrian and bikeway accesses... Andrews: I guess the point being that if we ignore TH 101 south, it will become just like TH 101 north. It will be urbanized and difficult to develop so. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: Well and with that, I think for many years with the idea of Bandimere being developed, I think one of the goals was as it would be developed, there would be some kind of a trail connection, because there's no way a kid would ride their bike along TH 101 to ever get to that park. Andrews: Let's wrap up. Any more comments on either Commission member or administration section? If not, let's flip back to item 1 which is unfinished business. Lash: Can we just skip the administrative section? Andrews: Well I just asked for any comments on that? Lash: On the administrative section? Andrews: Yeah, I just asked for any comments on that. Lash: Oh, okay. REQUEST FROM CITY OF SHOREWOOD; CATHCART PARK CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS. . Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: Does anybody else think this is about the dumbest thing you've ever heard? This whole thing. Why is this, why if the park is in Chanhassen, would the city have donated it to the city of Shorewood to start with? Hoffman: The church? Lash: Yeah. Hoffman: Because the church was in Shorewood and at that time Chanhassen was a long ways away from what was going on up there in Shorewood. Lash: So the property used to be in Shorewood? Hoffman: No. It was in Chanhassen the whole time but...church was built across the street in Shorewood. At the time the donation occurred, Chanhassen was a long ways away and there was nothing over there and so the donation, from the church to help the -neighborhood, which the neighborhood was all Shorewood people, went to the city of Shorewood. 16 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Roeser: Yeah, they just gave the city of Shorewood some land in Chanhassen. Andrews: I agree with Jan's comment. This is about the most goofy thing that I've ever seen. Berg: I don't understand why they need people from Chanhassen to come and help them build this. Lash: If it's people in Shorewood who live there. Hoffman: Well now the neighborhood has grown up around there and Chanhassen folks are using it. That was the reason for the joint agreement. I'm not going to ask to deliver a lawnmower every Tuesdays and Thursdays so we can mow the lawn. Andrews: I agree with you Todd that you have to fall back on this joint powers agreement. If we don't, this thing is just going to keep coming back for a little bit more. A little bit different. I mean it's all good intentions and I agree with all that. It's good causes and good intentions but this agreement was negotiated in good faith and full knowledge of both parties and I think it's very clear as to what the intent was and I think we ought to follow that as a guide. Huffman: Do you need a motion or something? Andrews: Yeah, I think we do. Lash: I move that we accept staffs recommendation. Roeser: Second. Andrews: Any discussion? Lash moved, Roeser seconded that the Chanhassen PalX and Recreation Commission respectfully decline the invitation from Shorewood to be involved in capital improvements at Cathcalt PalX, consistent with the joint agreement between the two cities. All voted in favor and the motion callied. POWER HILL PARK PLAY EQUIPMENT VENDOR. CONFIRMATION OF MINNESOTA/ WISCONSIN PLAYGROUND. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: I have one comment about this plan. As I recall, I had a thought last time that if two of the swings were deleted that there'd be the potential in the future of possibly putting a little extension on. Putting a tire swing there, down the road. So I'd like to make sure that the swings are not centered in such a way that that wouldn't be able to be accomplished. Hoffman: Pop this out? Lash: Well, whatever needs to be done. If that's what it takes. Andrews: I agree. Manders: Is there any way to know sturdy the swing is as compared to the one at Pheasant Hills or whatever the one that we were sampling down there that was a little bit shaky? Hoffman: This is a 5 inch diameter, or excuse me. What this one has, the leg configuration is different. It has this kick out leg design. At the end... You should find that this is satisfactory. I have spoken, but just out of curiosity, MinnesotalWisconsin Playground gets their equipment, they used to be looked upon as not top grade equipment...colors and those type of things...Since that time they've completely renovated and upgraded their materials. I was aware of that at the time of the meeting. I spoke with the City of Champlin and the City of...With that. . Lash: Good. And I'm assuming the green is a dark green. Right? It's not some ugly green. Hoffman: It's a dark green and a tan. Huffman: Dark green may be an ugly green. Lash: Well, you know what I mean. Not like lime green. Huffman: And that's ugly? Lash: Well, for playground equipment, yeah. Huffman: I have a leisure suit like that. Hoffman: There is a lime green available. The one statement you could make is that the decks, the rubber decks, coated steel decks, either come in brown or beige... Lash: I think it looks fine. 18 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Huffman: Anybody from Power Hill Park area want to make a comment? Hoffman: With that, it's recommended that MinnesotalWisconsin Playground be confirmed in the amount of $21,995.00 for the purchase of Phase I playground equipment at Power Hill Park. Berg: So moved. Andrews: With the stipulation that Jan made. That we allow room for a potential future tire swmg. Berg: Correct. Lash: Second. Andrews: Okay. We have a motion. It's been seconded. Any more discussion? Berg moved, Lash seconded that MinnesotalWisconsin Playground be confirmed as the Power Hill playgmund equipment vendor for Phase I in the amount of $21,995.00, and that enough mom be made for a tire swing in the future. All voted in favor, except Huffman who opposed, and the motion canied. Huffman: Opposed. I voted against it last time so, it doesn't matter. APPROVE PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS. AUTHORIZE EXPENDITURE OF CONTINGENCY FUNDS: POWER HILL POWER PARK BASKETBALL AND PARKING IMPROVEMENTS. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Roeser: Do you think you're going to get any heat for putting one 10 foot and one 8 foot basket? Lash: It was a request. Roeser: Was it? Lash: Yes. Roeser: I mean I think it's a good idea. 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Huffman: It's the greatest thing in the world. You get kids at one end. You get other people at the other end. Kids who want to play on the taller side, absolutely. You don't need a full length basketball court. I don't know any 13 year old in this town who can run the full length of the basketball court without falling over. Roeser: No, I think it's a good idea too. I'm just wondering. Huffman: No, I think it's a great idea. Lash: I have a couple of questions. One was, and it probably can't work any other way, but one comment that I think Fred made was, isn't going in an east/west configuration so that you're shooting into the sun in the afternoon? Not a problem? Okay. Huffman: Let it go. Lash: Well I just thought if it could run the other direction, do it the other direction. If it's just as easy. Plus then you don't have the hill to contend with. Huffman: It will improve accuracy... Andrews: Life is tough when we're worrying about the sun being in somebody's eyes. . Huffman: This is wonderful. This is a blessing. This is great and if anybody complains about it, they can go out and take one... Manders: One question I have is on the surface of that parking lot area as it is now. I don't know if there's any other...or is that the way it is now, sealed? Just painted. Hoffman: It's not... Manders: No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just wondering. Berg: Any relationship between the people who wrote the letter about the basketball court and the City Manager in Shorewood? Hoffman: Yes. Huffman: Thank you to the Hurm young men for taking an active interest in writing Mr. Hoffman. Very nice. 20 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: I think this is going to be a great addition to this park. The playground equipment and this all going in this year, I should think the residents should be very happy this year with the addition. Berg: Don't bet on it. We haven't finished the lower part of the park yet. Then they'll be happy. Lash: I think they should be happy this year with what they're getting. They're getting more than was anticipated. Huffman: I make a motion that we approve the attached plans for Powers Hill basketball and parking improvements, including authorization to expend the contingency funds. Lash: In the amount of, not to exceed. Hoffman: $5,000.00. Huffman: $5,078.86. . Lash: I'd second that motion. Andrews: We have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? Huffman moved, Lash seconded that the Prok and Recreation Commission approve the attached plans and specifications for Power Hill Prok basketball and proking lot improvements including autholization to expend contingency funds, not to exceed $5,078.86. All voted in favor and the motion crolied. Andrews: Oh, we forgot again. Is there anybody from the neighborhood? CHANHASSEN RECREATION CENTER OPERATIONS. Dawn Lemme presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: So what you're asking for is to focus in on our hours of operation first? Lemme: I would like to get that covered. ...signage and things that we're going to need to be getting done. Andrews: Let's take this one thing at a time. If we decide who's going to, yeah. . 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lemme: Before we get into fees or priorities, if we could do this first, that would be really helpful. Andrews: Okay. So let's start with hours of operation and days of operation. I assume we're going to operate 7 days a week. Lemme: Yeah. Andrews: Okay. Any suggestion from board members here on hours of operation. Roeser: Why would you change to 8:00 to 8:30 opening on Saturdays? Lemme: I'm saying 8:00 to 8:30, when I looked at other places. Some opened at 8:30, some opened at 8:00. I was just giving you... Lash: Typically do the people not get up early enough on Saturdays? Lemme: According to this, looking at other facilities, no. They do not. Unless they have a pool, then they would open it earlier because people want to do an early morning swim. But as far as the activity that we have, there probably will not be a lot of people doing aerobic class 8:00 in the morning on Saturday. They may do that during the weekday because you'd be open... . Berg: Well I'd like to see us open as early as possible. I circled all the earliest dates for opening and the latest times for closing. Lash: That's just what I did too. Andrews: So you like 6:00 to 10:00. 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Berg: 6:00 to 10:00. Andrews: Monday through Friday and 8:00 to 10:00 Saturday and Sunday. Roeser: The only night you might close a little earlier is Sunday night. Huffman: Saturday in reality, I mean you can close that earlier too. People don't workout generally, some people do... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) 22 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lemme: The one...city of Apple Valley. They opened it up in those late hours on Fridays and Saturday evenings for... Lash: Did you say team? Lemme: Teen. Jr. High, High School. Andrews: Let's talk about who uses it after we decide how long we're going to be open, otherwise we'll get into too many what if's. Lemme: Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 10:00. Andrews: Okay. And Saturdays and Sundays, what? 8:00 to 10:00 or 8:00 to 8:00? Roeser: Let's go 8:00 to 10:00. Why not start big and if. Manders: You can always back down. Huffman: It's easier to back down than it is to go up. Andrews: You bet it is. Lemme: Saturday and Sunday, 8:00 to 10:00? Andrews: 8:00 to 10:00. Berg: Is Saturday and Sunday, excuse me. Is 8:00, does that then eliminate getting any churches in there? If we open up that early. Lemme: No, they'll probably want to be in there, I'm guessing...! haven't gotten any specific times. If they want to be there before regular hours opening, that could be arranged and that's another question... Can we make special arrangements if someone wants to do a lock-in... Lash: Sure. Well if we think that we want, if we think that we're open to running it Sunday mornings consistently to a church, then we need to change our hours of operation because it wouldn't be open to anyone else. So we'd have to then have our opening on Sunday be noon or whatever time they... Andrews: See I have a problem with taking our rec center away. Completely. 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Huffman: I am vehemently opposed to renting it out to a church on Sunday morning. I'll give up my golf course completely before we do that. I think that's a very, very poor idea. Lemme: One option is to allow the community rooms to be rented out Sunday mornings and not the gymnasium. Andrews: That's my concern that I don't think anyone group should take it completely over and deny access to the rest of the city. Completely. I guess that's my concern. And I don't care if it's a church or any other group. I mean we shouldn't be blocking, if we're going to block it out week after week after week, then like Jan said, take it off the schedule because it's no longer available to the city or the public anymore. Lemme: Correct... Lash: I think that's a hard commitment to make the first year. For us. Roeser: Maybe for a year we shouldn't. Lash: You know at this point we have no idea what kind of. Huffman: That's a community recreation center. . Andrews: I think we should stay away from that too for the first year at least. Lash: If it looks like, after the first 6 months, if it looks like it's never used Sunday morning. Berg: Yeah, it can definitely be a philosophical question too. Through Community Ed I'm finding out that they're getting hit everyday with churches requesting the use of the schools for example... Huffman: I was in the real estate business in Phoenix for 2 years. There's a church every day that comes up and wants a new deal on a new place and new thing. I mean it's a constant. Berg: But the philosophical question comes up though because it's, and I don't want to get into it now but it's tax dollars that are supporting this. These are taxpayers in the district or the city. Huffman: ...non-profit, non tax paying purpose... 24 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: I mean we wouldn't be talking about giving them the space for free. There would be a rent. Right, I would never consider it for free. Berg: Right, absolutely not. I would agree waiting for a year is a good idea too. Lemme: I would like to point out that on Sundays, I put...8:00 and people are home and I think it would be actually the opposite. I think it would be harder to cut the hours back than it would be to expand them. Andrews: On Sundays? Roeser: So you're saying going to 8:00 on Sundays, is what you're recommending? Lemme: You know I didn't put that in there but that was generally what I found. I think it would be easier to expand. If we're having enough demand here on Sunday night, we'll open it later. But to cut back, open until 10:00 and say sorry. We're cutting back to 8:00. We're still going to get a few people... Huffman: Can we put that new mens basketball league in there from 8:00 to 10:00 on Sunday night? Roeser: Lock them in. 8:00 to midnight. And then let the survivors out. Lash: So 8:00 to 8:00? Andrews: 8:00 to 8:00, Sundays. Lemme: Okay, just so I'm clear. On Monday through Friday the hours will be 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. On Saturdays from 8:00 until 10:00 and then Sundays from 8:00 to 8:00 and we would be open to looking at lock-in's or additional hours for people who are... Manders: One other question I would ask is, is there a, or did you notice anything in terms of seasonal hours? If it was adjusted at all. Not that I really want that but I would think in the winter you would have more demand than you would in the summer. Lemme: The information I received was information that was collected throughout the fall and the winter and as far as I know, those times don't change. Some of the programming times changed. In the summer they would have less open gym programs and...other things. But I haven't seen any other changes. I think it gets confusing for people. 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Andrews: So we have the easy part done. Like to attack the fees next? Lemme: I'd like to, if we could, attack the fees first of all by categories. I understand that you feeL.. Andrews: Well I kind of like your approach you used here which would establish the resident as the base rate and then everything else was either an up charge or a down charge from that. It makes it easier to come up with a logical system. Plus then if we adjust rates, we can just sort of follow that pattern on the percentage. Lash: I have one quick question I was going to ask you about this. Is there anyone who would just be free? Lemme: At this point I guess we're not looking at that. Lash: Okay, the first thing that came to my mind was Scouts. Scouts are always looking for a place to meet. Huffman: I was an Eagle Scout. That's part of your deal is to get space somewhere. I don't want to be giving it away. . Lash: I mean they can't afford to pay for space. They can't. Huffman: You know when we're talking about giving away stuff though, I mean we've got a real jewel and I want to be real careful about giving away anything in this place. Anything, real careful. Because if you give away the Scouts, it's like this Cathcart Park deal. You know the agreement said it's gone but you can always change it. And I get real nervy about this. We've got a great jewel and a great opportunity. If we give it to the Scouts, we're going to have the guy from the American Legion down here going well, we gave $5,000.00 here, can't we have Lake Susan at a given time, etc, etc. Andrews: I guess another reason why I don't want it free is that you don't want a group to reserve it and then decide not to use it and not even bother to tell us that they don't want it and if there's not some dollar figure attached, there will be groups that will just say, reserve us the gym for June 5th, which is Saturday let's say. They're going to have their outdoor soccer practice that day but in case it rains, they want to be able to come inside and have it. But it doesn't rain so they go ahead and hold it outside and the gym sits empty and it's wasted. And people will do that, I guarantee you they'll do it. If it's free. 26 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lemme: Just to let you know, currently we get a lot of calls from troops. I'd say weekly. They want to use the senior center. They've been somewhat pushed out of the schools. Or at least the schools have given them less time availability and so we've currently been directing people to the old Village Hall. A lot of troops. Some are open to that because of it's proximity to...and the downtown area. And some have requested to use...! could tell you that we could fill up every single day after school with troops, whether it's paid or not paid. I have a feeling they're going to want... . Lash: Well, I'm going to have a problem. I mean what was this built for? This was built because we needed more space in town and not every organization is a profit making organization but they still need to have space and that was the whole intent of building this building. We knew the school was crowded. We knew another school was coming. Scouts is a, to me, a very worthwhile thing. It's not a money maker. It's something you want to try and encourage. They learn some great life long skills but if they don't have anyplace decent to go, and I don't consider Village Hall a decent place to have a meeting. There's no facilities. Many times in Scouts and Girl Scouts, you do cooking things or craft things that require sinks or ovens, things like that and you need to have some place for them to have it and have it accessible to the school, you know the kids in downtown Chan are going to be using the elementary as much as they can here. And they probably will be using Bluff Creek as much as they can too, but there's not those kinds of facilities in the classrooms if you want to, you know use a stove and that was one of the reasons why I personally wanted to see some kitchen facilities put in some of these rooms. For some of those kinds of things that need to be done. Some have banquets. They have father-daughter things. They have all kinds of things going on and to me that was the whole point of having this building. I don't look at this building as being a major profit center for us. I look at it as providing opportunities for people to go somewhere and do the things that they haven't been able to do in the past. Andrews: To be fair, you'd have to say non-profit civic organizations which really opens up to a ton of groups. Lash: I know it opens things up but I think it's something we need to look at and discuss and figure out a fair and equitable way of doing this. And if we charge everyone across the board, I don't want to say it's discriminatory because it's not. It's fair but you have these groups who don't have the availability of funds so they just will be excluded from using that facility for that reason. Huffman: Jan, there's nobody here that loves the Scouts more than me. I sat on the Viking Council Board for 3 years. I am an Eagle Scout. For 5 years I carried a brown paper bag as a pack. We camped under tarps. That Village Hall is phenomenally exciting as a meeting . 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . place. I mean are we so, to the point now where unless we have a cushion under every touche, that's a great place to meet. That's a great room. You can divide up and you can do 100 things in that room. And I really am nervous, and I'll just follow Jim's point of reasoning, that you've...We sit here and argue about playground equipment. Is it ADA accessible? Do we have enough property? And to kind of open it up to a particular group like the Scouts, I just, a rate structure that we come up with or something. We did bake sales. We did car washes. We did a thousand things and there wasn't any poor inner city troop that I belonged to in the country than the one I grew up with. We went everywhere in the world. These kids in Chanhassen can do the same thing. It's a great learning opportunity. Lash: I look at the way that lifestyles are now, Scouts generally tend to be after school and parents are working. So there's no way for the kids to get from their school to some other site for their meeting. So if they can't do that, they don't have the meeting. They almost have to have the meetings be in the school and if the school is, the school is limiting them for some reasons. I don't know what those reasons are, but if that's what's happening, then Scouts are going to get squeezed out because they're not going to have places accessible and they're not going to be able to afford to pay to go somewhere. Andrews: How about if we do this. How about if we figure out resident and non-resident. Business, resident and non-resident and come back with what we want to do with the "non- profits and disadvantaged" groups last because I think that's an area we all struggle with. I know Minnetonka for instance is quite open to accommodating non-profit groups. . Lash: Even if we designated one room as one that could be, I don't know. Andrews: You could have a lot of, you could have all kinds of arrangements but I see both sides of it too. I know it's tough but I also am concerned that if we say we'll take care of non-profits civic organizations, there will be more groups than we'll have space for and so we're right back to it. But anyway, why don't we come back to that. ...The rooms that we have available to rent out are all approximately the same size? Lemme: The community rooms. The community rooms... Andrews: Okay, and we're talking about a unit as being one-fourth of that overall room? Lemme: Yes. One meeting room. Berg: And two of those have kitchens. Andrews: Yeah. We can surcharge those or up them for whatever. 28 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: So what's the difference between a conference room and a community room? Or the meeting room? Lemme: The conference room is, there's a small room with...and video stand. A big, large conference table. Somewhat like our Manager's conference room. Our conference room upstairs for small meetings to take place and if you need a video screen... Lash: So smaller meetings than in a meeting room? Lemme: Right. That's what we call this...The community room is the one large room divisible by 4. Andrews: I'm trying to find the Minnetonka schedule here. Lash: It's the second page from the front. Andrews: Yeah, the Minnetonka Community Center is somewhat similar to what we're doing, is it's mainly meeting rooms. I mean we do have the athletic space attached but. I guess one thing that scares me is that we're going to make this so complicated that nobody will be able to figure out what it is. Lash: Well let's not. Let's just make it simple. Lemme: I think my proposal here on the...categories, and then just either giving a discount to or adding a surcharge makes it simple enough because when you ask people what's your room type, you just go down the line...discount for renting 4 rooms but they may be charged more on the other end because they're a non-resident. Andrews: Okay. So if we assume the resident as the 100% space rate, okay. Suggestions for what a non-resident should pay above the base rate for a rental. Lemme: And the reason this is difficult is because, you know...double what the residents pay. Minnetonka, they only charge double for non-residents. But every place is different. It's really based on what you're comfortable with charging residents and non-residents... Berg: I think before we look at anything else we have to decide what a resident is going to pay. What's the 100% charge that they're going to have? 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: Well maybe we need to look at blocks of time too. Minnetonka are for a 5 hour block of time. Like for their community room is, during Monday through Thursday it's $50.00 for a 5 hour block of time. Andrews: I'm trying to come at this a different way which is let's come up with a percentage schedule first and then we just go up and down the line and say this much for this room. This much for this room. This much for this room and everything fits right in. So if you say a resident's 100%, a non-resident is 100% plus a 50% surcharge or whatever so we can kind of establish the grading first and then come back and tack numbers on everything... Lemme: So if you want to charge, so what you need to determine first off, how much more do you want to charge non-residents than residents? Manders: No, I'm up for double. Roeser: Are you really? Huffman: Well, it's Chanhassen Rec Center, correct? Andrews: Plus 100% so. . Lemme: So double. Lash: Yeah. Andrews: How much to add for a business? So if you get, are we going to have businesses divided by resident and non-resident? Lash: Pay half as much for a business. Andrews: To be honest, I don't think we should, I think businesses, resident and non-resident it doesn't matter. Huffman: Now you're talking group type. Roeser: Oh, I think it should matter. Huffman: Well what about just non-profit versus everybody else? Andrews: We'll come back to that, non-profit. We'll get to the non-profit last. 30 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Huffman: But what I'm saying, if just two categories. Not 20. Non-profit, everybody else. Lemme: We do have some difference, on our field schedulings, we do charge commercial and business different than just regular residents and a discount is given to non-profit groups. So there's three categories in that. That's why there's three now. Huffman: But are we required to follow that? Lemme: No. Huffman: That's why I'm saying. Why not non-profits get over here. I mean create an all encompassing to support that non-profit. Berg: Is it easier for you when somebody calls, if we're consistent with what Jerry does with the fields too? Is that why you proposed that originally? Lemme: You had asked me to take a look in comparison to what we do with our fields. Lash: I thought it'd be, I suggested that. I just thought it would be easier for us. We've already struggled with this issue with the ballparks and the picnic facilities so why not just use that as a guideline and go with it... Andrews: We're even more brutal on our park reservations than 100%. We're 200% up. Lemme: At Lake Ann pavilion. When I was looking at that I was saying Jerry, wow. Huffman: $60.00 to $120.00. Roeser: But we do sell it. I mean we don't have any trouble. Lemme: No, we do not... Andrews: So we're looking for 100% surcharge for a non-resident. So how about a resident business? 100% above resident, base resident? So we're going to have double businesses. Lash: And then a non-resident business maybe again? Another 100%? Andrews: Yep. Manders: That's sound a round number. I like that. 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lemme: Could you repeat that please? Andrews: Okay, a resident business will pay 100% more than the resident individual rate, so to speak. And a non-resident business will pay another 100% more so 300% above the base rate. Does that make sense? Lemme: So non-resident is... Huffman: We don't want to force them out of the market but. Lash: I don't think we're going to have a problem. I think there's going to be enough resident.. . Andrews: At the same time, the last thing you want to do is say to your resident that geez, the business down the highway has booked space. Sorry, we don't have any room for you and their people paid for it. If the place is sitting there empty, when we know what we need to do. Hoffman: Can we get the percentages...? . Andrews: We're adding 100% on so it's a plus. It's 100% added on. Another 100% added on so a total of multiple of 3 for non-resident. Lash: So we'll just say, if it was $100.00 for resident. It'd be $200.00 for non-resident. It'd be $300.00 for business and $400.00 for a non-resident? Andrews: That's not the way I. Lash: No? Okay, well... Andrews: I was going to say. A business, a resident business would be $200.00 and a non- resident business would be $300.00. So that's how the price grid would work. Now we can go back and say. Lash: Or how about district? If we go right down the yellow list. The school districts. Andrews: Districts. Lemme: Would districts be considered non-profit? 32 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Roeser: Oh I would think so. Lash: Yeah, I guess. So if we have resident, non-profit and non-resident, non-profit? Andrews: No, I don't want to get into that. That's too complicated. I mean how can you be a resident, well. Lash: Okay, so what if Eden Prairie School District wanted to come in, we'd charge them the same amount? Andrews: Well let's talk about. So we have 276 and 112. So we have schools and then we've got non-profits and civics, right? Suggestions? Just home districts, half the rate? Lash: Half the resident rate? Andrews: Yep. Roeser: Yeah, 50% discount. That makes sense. . Lemme: That would be the church, civic and non-profit? Andrews: No, that's just the schools at this point. Lash: And other school districts, there would be a surcharge of 50%? Huffman: How far do you define what that includes? Andrews: What is it, District 276 and 112? Huffman: No, I understand that. What does that include? District 112 calls up and says we want to rent x space and we send over Future Farmers of America's. That's the kind of group? That kind of thing? Andrews: If it's a district sponsored event, I really don't care. Berg: If they had a girl's basketball team that needs a place to practice. Lash: Or they need to have an organizational meeting. . 33 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Huffman: German Club or whatever, okay. That's fine. I did not know what was all in there. Thank you very much. Andrews: Other school districts, non-resident rate? Roeser: Yeah. I think we're not going to rent to them. Andrews: Yeah, I agree. Let's just have them pay a non-resident rate which is plus 100%. And I guess my feeling would be for non-profits, that's a tough one. I've really wrestled with that one too. I feel at the very minimum we've got to cover our janitorial and space costs. We can't just say come on in and mess the place up and we'll pick up the tab. I don't think that's right. Huffman: If there's not some value attached to it, some monetary value attached to it, there is no value. That's a fact. Manders: My thought is that we can always back off on whatever we decide. Re-evaluate this next year, which is going to be a situation with the parks. We look at them every year and it's going to be easier to back off than I think to step up something and we'd be better off having some type of a fee. . Andrews: I guess I agree. I think we should charge a fee and if somebody really has a problem with that, they can apply for a hardship and we'll deal with it but I guess my inclination would be to say no. Berg: I think charging a fee. Andrews: Flat fee or percentage? Berg: A percentage, increases. I think it makes the place more valuable to them and they're more likely to take care of it but I'd like to see it a nominal fee. I would go so far as to throw it on the table to discount those groups 75%. Andrews: I was thinking the same thing. Roeser: Non-profit? Lemme: Civic and non-profit. Roeser: I notice it says senior here too. 34 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lemme: On Jerry's... Andrews: Same thing. 75% discount. Does that sound reasonable? Lemme: 75% discount would go for civic, non-profit, and that includes schools, and...? Andrews: Yep. Huffman: And seniors in there too. Lemme: And seniors. Andrews: Anybody we missed? Lash: Well you know there's going to be bugs in it and we'll have to work out the bugs as we go. When they crop up, we'll look at it. Andrews: I don't think we should have a resident and non-resident non-profit. I don't think that is necessary. Roeser: No. As long as priority would go to the resident non-profits anyway. And seniors, you're going to have to use your own judgment on that I would think. Andrews: Okay, so that's the, that gives us a grid to work with. Okay now, now we need to come up with dollars. Lemme: Well let's keep going on these categories, if you don't mind. Would you consider giving people, or would you consider a weekday rental as a regular rental and then the weekend rental. I notice a lot of the places do charge more on weekends, obviously. As far as renting out. Andrews: I'd like to see us start out with just a straight grid to start with for the first year and see because it's a brand new facility. We don't even know what's out there. I'm just afraid of making an administrative nightmare. If somebody would ask me, what's the policy out there and I'd have to say geez, I don't have the faintest idea. I mean I understand what you're saying is that you can extract more money over a higher demand period but I'm not so sure I would support that we'd take that approach right away. 35 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Berg: And the other side of the coin is, you might be able to get more people to come at 10:00 on a Tuesday morning when there's not going to be anybody there, if it's a little bit lower rate. Lemme: Most of the places, they consider the weekdays Monday through Thursday and then the weekend rate for higher charge on Friday. Lash: I don't have a problem with a different rate, although I, again I go back to this, the whole point of having this here is not to extract money from people and to be a big money maker. That was never my intent. It was to provide space for people because we didn't have enough space. But Fred's got a good point. If it's a senior group, they may pick a Tuesday or a Wednesday because it would be cheaper for them to come on a Saturday or a Sunday when working people, that would be their only time to go so. Roeser: I don't know if there's that much difference from Saturday and Sunday. Lemme: There's a higher demand for facilities for like the community room as far as, we're looking ahead to showers, potential weddings, those kinds of things are generally more weekend oriented and I think that the market out there...and that's why they're charged the higher price. So I think it should be a higher demand. . Berg: There's going to be a much higher demand for the gyms on the weekend. Huffman: But would it also be better to establish for a year a baseline to find out what the market is? I mean Jan's point is true. Find out for a year. Come back and say now we've looked at it. We realize at this point this is too much. This is too little and therefore we don't want to be a profit center but adjust it. Everybody's adjusting. It's all going to work out. Bring it down on the week, take it up but establish a, we have no base. We don't know what the demand is. We're guessing but establish that for a year and re-visit it at Christmas or something like that. Lash: So it looks like we're overflowing on the weekends and dead all week long, then we know that's the time to bump the price. On the weekends. Berg: Yeah, if we're getting a lot of people from other communities, because it's such a great deal even at 200%. Meger: I guess I would disagree. I feel like we have a lot of information showing us that the weekend is a more sought after time and it is also a time where there may be individuals who can't come during the day and also going on the concept that sometimes it's harder to 36 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 raise the price or cut back on hours. The same concept that I would recommend we raise the price on the weekend to start and we can always bring it back down if we want. Huffman: Add a 15% surcharge for weekends then? Just take whatever our base number is and it's 15% higher on the weekend. Roeser: That's sensible. Berg: No problem with that. Jane brings up a good point. Andrews: What's the weekend then, Saturday morning until Sunday closing? Huffman: Friday. Berg: Friday night. Huffman: Friday morning. Friday 8:00 a.m. Andrews: So Friday from opening until Sunday closing would be weekend rates? Roeser: Right. Friday to Sunday. Andrews: Well I agree. It's tough to come back and raise prices. Then everybody whines so if we could come back and say geez, we're going to cut the price on weekdays because we need to fill it up, I don't think anybody will complain. Lash: Plus if we think we're going to come up with something halfway workable here, it saves a lot of printing and sign engraving and all that kind of stuff too so. Andrews: Okay, next step. Lemme: Okay, the next category would be time. Do you want to charge on an hourly basis as your base charge is an hourly fee? And do you want to look at offering a discount for renting for a half day or renting for a full day? I gave one example here, if you looked closely at the materials, there were discounts given at some places. A day discount... Andrews: Well there's a couple ways you could attack that. One would be to say here's our hourly rate, with a maximum of x number of hours as your fee. Lash: Minimum you mean? 37 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Andrews: No, maximum. That you can't pay more than a certain amount. They can book as many, you know there's lots of ways to do that. Discounts or maximums or whatever. Lemme: ...up to 4 hours and then after that. Lash: I think we're looking at a 4 hour block. Andrews: I think 4 hour blocks. I think you need 1 hour blocks and 4 hour blocks, because you will have groups, like soccer, that have team meetings or basketball, or whatever. Berg: Yeah, basketballs's going to want it for 4 hour blocks. Andrews: Yeah, that don't want it all day. Maybe they just need a quick team meeting. They're in and out. Why tie up the room for 4 hours when somebody else might be able to come in there. Lash: But I agree with the idea of having either a cap or a reduction for the longer thing. When you don't have to go in there and changing, putting up and changing furniture every hour, that's... Andrews: I think we need to look at 1 hour and 4 hour blocks. If you have a wedding, you know 4 hour block. If they need more, they can take an 8 hour block or 4 + 1 or whatever. . Lash: 4 hour block, I was just looking at the hours and 4 hours is a nice divisionary number for all of the days except for Saturday, which is, it's open for 14 hours but nobody's going to want. Berg: I can CAA asking for 8 hours on Saturday. Andrews: Fine, two 4 hour blocks. Huffman: I'm hearing a couple of things. Weddings. Showers, things like that. Are you talking about catering food in? Are you talking about on service site things like that? Lemme: Catering. Huffman: Are you alcoholing on this place or is this alcohol free? Lemme: Currently, no. That's the intention. 38 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Andrews: It's on our property. Lemme: That's one of the things to be decided... Huffman: Well no, I'm asking is because what I'm hearing is, I mean we're walking right down the path and this isn't the right time but, weddings. Receptions. Andrews: You won't get that without alcohol. Not many of them. Huffman: I ain't going to one. Lemme: ... we talked a little bit about the special permit to deal with alcohol. On site. Huffman: I'm asking for information here. I'm a little fuzzy as always, Fred. Hoffman: The concept of hosting a wedding reception and that sort of... Andrews: It sounds like a City Council. . Roeser: The City Council maybe will have to deal with that, won't they? Huffman: So that's like a weekend deal. The kids are gone from school. School's shut down so Friday after 5:00 and Saturday and Sunday you can do things like that? I'm asking. I don't know. Hoffman: They'll have no access to the rest of the building so the difficulty...such as Chaska. If you're familiar with the community center. You can block off the remainder of the community center and it's still open for use but you can't gain access to the community center...banquet. They put up a gate across the hallway so you have to enter through the outside separate entrance. So if we were to host a Friday reception...close down the remainder of the building, the gymnasium would not be in service then to the remainder of the community to allow you to go ahead and serve alcohol in... At least that's my inkling and we'll find out more information... Andrews: You said that we'd have to shut down the whole place? Roeser: If you couldn't block it off. Andrews: Well, we'd have to figure out a way, yeah obviously. . 39 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Hoffman: There's a single hallway there so we could gain access to the gymnasium from the school and so we could keep our end closed and gain access from the gymnasium... Where th'ere's a will there's a way and we'll take a look at it. Berg: As long as they're talking about time, and I don't know if this is the appropriate spot. What about, are we interested in any kind of discount for those kinds of groups that might be going for a block of time for a season? I know we're going to get requests for basketball for evenings for practice and for Saturdays for games. Lash: Does the community center, do basketball teams, or the organizations have to pay to use gyms anyplace else right now? Kids? Ruegemer: Not to my knowledge, they don't. Lash: Okay, how about the adults? Ruegemer: If you use their facilities, they do not. Lash: Okay, and the adults? Ruegemer: Ah, no. . Lash: Okay. And with the Community Center in Chaska? Ruegemer: NO...basketball pretty much they kind of joined powers with the City of Chaska to run the league and therefore we are not in charge. Roeser: But it's part of your fee. Lash: Right. Well, I'm just wanting to make sure that I can see the road we're going down here with the gym and I was having a little panic attack here that we were going to start people to use the gym for basketball. Huffman: I'm not going to be able to get on at 8:00 on Friday nights to go play with 3 of my buddies? Andrews: Yep. Berg: 8:00 on Friday night won't be any problem. 6:00 on Thursday might be. 40 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Andrews: If you're going to have a private practice, you've got to reserve. But if you just want to go shoot hoops, you just go shoot hoops. Lash: So if I'm coaching a 2nd grade team and we want to go over there practice some night, our team is going to have pay to use that gym? Andrews: I mean if you want it private, for your use only. Berg: Or she's coaching a CAA team, how's that going to work? Lash: And I call a practice and the gym is open. Andrews: CAA is going to block time. Huffman: Your league is going to buy time from there. You bet they are. Lash: Well that's what I just asked. Are these organizations paying to use gym space in other places right now? . Ruegemer: Currently, no. Lash: Okay. So they're not going to pay to use the gym space there. They don't have to pay anyplace else. They would think we were insane if we started charging them for space. Huffman: No they wouldn't. Because there's no other place to go. Lash: Well I'm really... Berg: ...all of a sudden there's one building in the entire district that's charging them to practice basketball. Huffman: Well, okay. Walk me through this. I understand your concept. I'm walking with you but I'm a taxpayer. When do I get to use it? Lash: When it's not scheduled. Huffman: It's my court. Lash: It's the same as, you call and it's the same as anyplace else. If you want to go to Chaska to the Community Center. . 41 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Huffman: So I've got 6 nights a week of sports. I've got soccer in there now. I've got basketball in there. I've got baseball practice because it's wet outside so they want to come inside. Andrews: Well what you do is you block open gym times like every other facilities does and you say Tuesdays and Thursdays night from 6:00 to 10:00, it's open gym. If you want to come down and shoot hoops, you shoot hoops. A gym is basketball and the B gym is volleyball. Go play. Monday, Wednesday and Friday, it's blocked out for leagues. Don't come because you're not getting in. That's the way every other facility operates and we'll have to do it the same way. But you're right, you have to have time blocked off for Joe just to grab his basketball and come on down. Because if he can't get on that court and play every once in a while, he's going to come throw rocks at us. Huffman: I love your little leagues. Those are my kids playing in those leagues but I'm writing the check and...I've got an 8 and 5 year old and I understand that but daddy and mommy like to go down there and play volleyball and basketball and... Lash: Well if you go to play volleyball, you're going to be on a team. Andrews: Not necessarily. . Lash: You and your wife are going to go play volleyball? Huffman: We get our neighbors and we go down to the park and we've gone other places and played, sure. The elementary school had the open gym a couple years ago for pick-up games and stuff, absolutely. Andrews: Chaska pick-up volleyball is heavily attended every Friday and Sunday. Lash: But it's scheduled. Open volleyball. Huffman: Open. Lash: Right. I mean you're not going to just call up your friends some night and say, let's run over to the Rec Center and play volleyball. Huffman: Why can't I do that? 42 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: Because chances are it's going to be in use, is the whole point. It's not going to be sitting open available at everyone's beckon call. That wasn't the intent. The intent was to have more space to use because we don't have enough space. Andrews: What Chaska does is, when a group says that we want to play volleyball, or let's say you've got a group that likes to play badminton and you came to the coordinator and you'd say, I've got 20 of us. We're really interested in badminton. They'd schedule you out a block of time. Maybe it's 2 hours on Sunday afternoon and they'll put up the badminton net and they'll block you off a court and you go play. So you'll get your spot for your activity but in general for open gym, you're not going to block off an open gym area to put up a volleyball net unless you know you've got people that are going to play. Because otherwise it sits there and doesn't get used, is what happens. And all the other people that want to run around complain. So that's what every facility does. Lash: No, I don't look at this facility as being just a pick-up spot. I think it's something you're going to have to call in. It will be reserved in an organized fashion but that doesn't necessarily mean to me that everyone who calls to reserve it is going to paying every time they come in to use it. . Berg: Yeah, if they have plans it's spontaneity. Huffman: In reality, yeah. So we've built a facility that's already fully scheduled? Roeser: It will be. Andrews: Yeah, it will be. But it won't necessarily be scheduled purely for the benefit of teams. Some will be blocked out for open gym. For volleyball night or whatever else. Bowling, or whatever else you want to do. Golf. You can put up a golf net. Lash: That will be another whole issue and that will be the programming things. Roeser: Some of those things will have to be done by the professional staff I think. I'm not sure, we can hash all that out here tonight and we'll be here until 4:00 in the morning. Lash: No, I just want to make sure that we're not going down some path of charging for every single thing that's going to be available there for people to use. To me that would just be a crime. I mean that's what people are paying taxes for is so they have the opportunity to go someplace and play and their kids can play and right now everything is so crowded they can't do it. . 43 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Andrews: I've got the perfect solution. You put like a gumball machine thing on the basketball nets so the basketball goes up. It goes into the hoop and you've got to put a quarter in to get it back. Huffman: At Chaska Community Center also, you have to buy a membership if you're a resident there, don't you? Andrews: Yep. Huffman: I've got to pay if I want to go down there $175.00. Chaska residents pay $100.00. That's their tax dollars. That's their deal. I mean you are, space is at a premium. Andrews: That's not free either. Even their open gym is not free. You pay to use it. Berg: I need to be reminded. What access do we have to the school gym after school hours? Hoffman: ...share the room. Berg: Okay. Because that's going to clear up a lot of this problem if we all of a sudden have two gyms. We still won't have enough space but it opens it up more for. . Huffman: Whether you get two activity courts or three activity courts and you keep one free to wander up and down. But people do pay and I want to remind us that yeah, they do. I want to keep it fair and free and equitable but they do. Andrews: I think we've got to get back on task here or we'll beat this to death and be here all night. Lash: So should we look at a 1 hour and then a 4 hour block? Andrews: And I think Fred's comment about what do you do about somebody that wants to book a long term, I guess I would say that would be somebody that you just have a modest discount on. I don't think it should be dramatic but I mean if somebody wants to come in and book out a conference room for every Monday night from 8:00 to 10:00, great. They can do that and they'll get like a 10% discount if they do it or something like that. Meger: I guess I would go the other way saying you need to set a limit as to how far ahead somebody can book because I don't want to take away that prime time... Berg: That's why I said seasonal. I think I was thinking obviously just as a gymnasium. 44 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Andrews: Is it Minnetonka, I think you only can go, on a repeat I think you can only go like 2 or 3 months out and then you've got to rebook. Berg: I think 3 months is reasonable. Andrews: I can see your point but I mean, why deny another person a chance. Huffman: Because they'll reserve it and not show up for a couple weeks because they don't need it until the next season starts. Lash: Here they've got at Minnetonka, it says a resident can reserve a room up to 18 months in advance and non-resident up to 12 months. Andrews: That's a one shot reservation. Lash: Oh yeah, okay. I suppose you're talking a wedding or something like that and people need it way down the road. Andrews: Had you hoped to get the actual room fees tonight? Lemme: No, no...1 wanted you to consider the categories that we want to look at. Just so I can get this straight here. Is there going to be any type of discount for someone who rents, not like every Friday but to rent the entire community room for a conference or a workshop from 8:00 in the morning until 10:00 at night? Are you saying that there's no discount for that? Or there would be... Andrews: I guess philosophically, why would there be? Roeser: No, I don't think there should be. Lash: You don't have a bunch of set up and take down and clean-up inbetween where you could have if it had been divided into 4 rooms and 4 different groups were in each room all day long. That's a lot of extra work. Clean-up, set-up, all of that and you talk about a one time set-up and a one time take down. Huffman: I mean ostensibly our prices are going to be cheaper than any commercial deal out there. They're going to be real reasonable. I'm assuming. Lash: I was looking at it initially that the community room, that there would be a price if you booked one of the four but that if you took the whole thing, it would be a little cheaper I 45 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . guess. I don't know why I thought that. I guess I just assumed because of the set-up and clean-up. Andrews: I guess I could see more of a discount based on an all day than I could on say taking 1/4 or 1/2 or whatever because that has no bearing on our cost of operation. If you take 2 rooms, 3 rooms or 4 rooms for 4 hours, it doesn't cost us or save us a dime, depending on the number of rooms you took. But as far as your comment about if I took it all day from opening to closing, that's only one set-up and one take down, that does save us money. I guess with that in mind, I said yeah it might make some sense to say you know, if you take it for the day, we'll give you a 10% discount or something. I think it should be modest because you don't want to have somebody book the extra time just to save the money and tie up the room when they really didn't intend to use it. Lemme: Is that the decision? Andrews: I think we're all kind of glazing over. Huffman: Well I mean here's the fee. If you rent it at this room, it's this much. If you break it out, it's more expensive to rent a smaller room, less time. It's cheaper to rent the whole thing at one big pop. So if you want the whole thing all day, it's 10% less than the addition of all the numbers together. . Lemme: That's what... Huffman: Right. So if it cost $5.00 an hour for your hour, you want it for 8 hours, normally in a small quarter room it would be, for the 4 hour segments, whatever that number is. If you want all of it for 8 hours, for the whole deal, you know have a number. Andrews: I was just saying, I didn't think that made sense. To say if you take 4 rooms versus 1 room, we don't save anything doing that. It's the time is where we save. It's the set- up is where we save. Not the quantity of rooms where we save. Are we on the same wavelength? Huffman: No. I'm somewhere orbiting an outer planet somewhere right now. Andrews: Todd's over here grinning away. Huffman: I don't know how you guys do this. Lash: I hate it when they whisper over there and then laugh. 46 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Hoffman: If we have weddings, we're going to have people using our bathrooms in the locker room. Huffman: I guess I'm coming back down to this idea of the use of the entire facility because you talk tear up and set down, that's hotel catering lingo. That's verbiage that you have a tear up and a set down. We have community rooms that have two kitchens, a conference table, some chairs. I go over and I grab my chairs and I come and I pull them out and set them around the table. That's the set up. Now all of a sudden I'm hearing set up and tear down and I'm now envisioning Radisson coming in and managing our, I'm confused as to the growth of this thing. Andrews: Well, it could be a morning bridal shower, afternoon wedding. I mean that's two clean-ups, two set-ups. If somebody takes the tables and chairs and decorates them all up and you know. Huffman: We have tables and chairs? I mean we have...for 250. We have people who are going to wear little deals and go around and do that stuff? Andrews: Yeah. Hoffman: Absolutely. Huffman: My eyeballs hurt. Berg: You just wanted to play basketball. Huffman: I just want to play basketball. All I wanted to do there. Take a nice shower. Get a steam. And go away. Lemme: So you'd like to see a discount for people who rent for an entire day. Otherwise you'd like to see people charged on the 1 hour rate with a maximum of 4 hours? Andrews: No. I think we said there's a 1 hour and a 4 hour. Lemme: 1 hour and 4 hour. Lash: And if they want to have two 4 hour blocks, that's fine. If they want three 4 hour blocks, that's fine. Lemme: Okay. 47 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: And if they want three 4 hour blocks, that's fine. Lemme: And the number of meeting rooms is not a factor? Andrews: Nope. It doesn't make sense to me. Lemme: Okay... Andrews: And one thing to remember is, when in doubt, mumble. Roeser: Just say I'll have to check with Todd. Andrews: Whatever you think would be fair. Lemme: ...okay, the room type. As we said, there are three different room types. There's the conference room, there's the community room and there is the gymnasium. A lot of this information that was written on...that had to do with their community, their meeting room...so your gymnasiums would be a different issue. If a church group comes in and they'd like to rent the gym for a church party. Not a school district thing, are they going to be required to pay a fee? And if so, would that be higher or lower than... . Lash: For the whole gym? Andrews: Absolutely. Lash: Oh, I think more than a meeting room. I mean to block out a gym, the whole gym to keep anyone else from being able to use the whole gym. Andrews: I guess we haven't established what any rooms are going to cost yet, is that what you're trying to get at here? Lemme: No, actually I'm not. I'm jusLare your meeting rooms going to cost differently than...so you have different charges for different rooms? Andrews: Yes. Absolutely. Lemme: Okay. Andrews: If they really want it bad, they have to pay more. 48 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: I look at having the kitchen in there as a slight upcharge just to make sure people aren't taking the room with the kitchen who really don't need it. But nothing, a minor. Like maybe 10% or something. Andrews: Would there be coffer service available that could go into any of the 4 meeting rooms? So if somebody rents one of the rooms without a kitchenette, they can still make and serve coffee. We're going to have that kind of equipment? ...we will, I'm sure. Lemme: ...We'll have to do something... Berg: Tell me if it's just me. I have a bit of a problem with any group coming in and renting the gym and closing the gymnasium off for a large block of time to anybody. I'm talking about a church group for example. Private group. I'm not talking CAA. Andrews: How about after hours? Berg: After hours, I have no problem. Andrews: Okay. Then we've got to figure out how to charge them for that. Lash: Are you talking about the gym? Andrews: Yeah. Lash: And I look at the, maybe I'm really naive. I don't look at that as something that a lot of people would book for anything other than sports kinds of things, would they? I don't know. Ruegemer: After hours? Huffman: Absolutely. Lash: What do you mean after hours? I look at like a lock-in maybe. Okay, what else? Huffman: People use it for fund raising. You have groups come by. Put in carnival nights, other things... Roeser: You can rent it from 10:00 to midnight. Huffman: ...you've got people walking in black heeled soles all over the gymnasium floor. 49 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: We can't have that. Huffman: No, we can't. Berg: We've seen already we've got a problem with scheduling it with the guy who wants to playa pick-up game and the organizations. I have a real problem with closing it off to another group for any block of time. Andrews: I do too. Lash: I look at it as being available on off hours on a very limited basis. On something like a teen lock-in or something that's highly supervised. Huffman: At the end of schools. Lash: No shoes. Huffman: Kids after proms, things like that. After dances... Absolutely. Lash: But I don't look at it as the place where one of the schools is going to have their Fun . Fair. Roeser: No, they've got the gyms in the school already. They don't need. Lash: I don't know what all other kind of things would be out there. Hoffman: I can see that this meeting is going to be a heck of a lot more productive after about the first quarter of operations... Lash: Then we'll have something to fall back on. Andrews: Dawn, I think we've got to tie this one up here. I think we're losing ourselves here. Lash: Okay, how about a difference between the conference room and one of the four meeting rooms? Anybody see a difference there? Is there that big of a difference just because it's equipped a little bit different? Huffman: Absolutely, you want that because the people you're going to get there are going to be coming in for... 50 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: Okay, a 10% up charge on that. Make it easy. If it's a kitchen, it's 10% more. If it's the conference room, it's 10% more... Lemme: We can end this at this point tonight and come back to it at another meeting... Lash: Well what else do we have? I'd rather keep chipping away here. Huffman: Well the number of meeting rooms here, that's pretty standard. Yeah, let's go. Roeser: We have this land development proposal sitting in front of us, don't we? Andrews: And it's 9:00. Huffman: Well you've only got 2 more things. You've got number of meeting rooms, set-up, take down, and priorities. Can we hand you a hand written list after the meeting of the list of priorities because we knew that last time coming in? Andrews: No. . Berg: No. Lash: I think just by the fees alone. The percentages could...priorities, don't you think. Residents have priority over. Andrews: I'd like to bring this back next meeting and tie it up then. Lash: I'd like to table it now and finish our other business and then see what time it is and if there's time, keep going. I would rather try to wrap up as much as we can while we're. If we wait 2 weeks or a month, we're going to be forgetting everything we did here. Roeser: No, Dawn's got it all written down. Lash: Let's see where we go. Berg: Let's table it and see where we are. Andrews: Table where we are. Dawn, we may come back to you. I'm personally am against coming back to you but. . 51 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . CONCEPTUAL AND PRELIMINARY PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD) APPROVAL TO REZONE 24.85 ACRES FROM R12. HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO PUD. PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT: PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 46.57 ACRES INTO 85 LOTS. 2 OUTLOTS AND ASSOCIATED RIGHT-OF-WAY: SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR 83 SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED ZERO LOT LINE HOMES ON 19.95 ACRES AND A WETLAND ALTERA nON PERMIT ON PROPERTY LOCATED ON LAKE RILEY BOULEVARD. ON THE NORTH SIDE OF LAKE RILEY. NORTH BAY. ROTTLUND COMPANY. 1Ne. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: The Klingelhutz development to the east, how many homesites are proposed for that? Hoffman: At last count I believe it was 64... Don Jensen: Is it my turn? Andrews: Yes, Mr. Jensen. If you would introduce yourself and make any comments that you'd like to make. Don Jensen: Sure. Don Jensen, Land Development Manager for Rottlund Company. You're looking at another subdivision. I have on my right here an aerial of the city of Chanhassen. The property that we are looking at developing, are we on tape, or do I not need to worry about this? . Andrews: Weare on tape. Don Jensen: We are? Okay. Is bounded by a farm road on the west side. The Klingelhutz development that was just described on the west side. The 212 corridor is roughly immediately north of the existing farmhouse on this aerial photo. It runs at an angle through the property. Roughly in this location. So development would be roughly just due west at the service road to the apartments. Bearpath. Eden Prairie border. Chanhassen's right here on the far east side of this drawing towards me and this is the parcel that is not us. Remains to be developed as the last high density parcel, plus this in the Chanhassen boundary on this zone. All the other lands are zoned the lower density. What we're looking to do is to develop in the high ground in through here in this location immediately to the west of the entrance road on parkland...development plan that you have in front of you. Since we submitted these plans which were out in your packet, we've been able to get some corroboration from the wetlands people...We have modified a submittal before the Planning Commission to look at the, the dwelling units now are slightly lower. It's about 75 dwelling 52 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . units compared to 83. We had a development review meeting with the planning and engineering staff and understood that we would receive some comment from Todd's group, Park and Recreation. What we are looking to do in moving the proposed Lyman Boulevard, Lake Riley Road is the old road, or the current road I should say, is being upgraded quite a bit to the north...as you can see on the aerial photo. We're requesting in our plans to flatten that road to the open space that is taken up by the...parking. The driveway that's been out over on this property for a long time. That opens up this triangular zone for development of water quality ponding and it also... What we're proposing to do in that narrow, that...right-of- way which helps for ponding purposes and setbacks from the buildings and makes land more developable north. The parcel to the south from the lake is still undevelopable by city code. Is to move the trail to the existing...and other vegetation that we have, all along this south arm and then bring it back up to the road right-of-way. As we get closer to the project entrance, over on the easterly portion of the development, and that's what we're talking about when Todd mentioned narrow right-of-way, larger right-of-way. The current plan engineering had, had large right-of-way and the trails coming right up against the road. Separate the trails in a narrow right-of-way. So that was our proposal regarding that trail corridor and Todd is... We understand that. That that's part of the road project. Our request is to have some concurrence that it makes some sense to put the trail away from the road.... That allows us to...narrow right-of-way for other regional and local needs for development. One question I had of Todd and for yourselves is we had understood that there was supposed to be a trail along this new public street concerning...development. That's currently been called a sidewalk on the plans. We understood from planning that that was to allow these residents to walk to this other park which is in the Klingelhutz development. If for some reason there's not an intent to have sidewalks or trails here through other subdivisions, I guess we don't see a need to have it on our plan unless that's the focus of the city's future. We're certainly willing...our fair share built now and the trails... But we understood that was prorated and...We had an opportunity on what would be the west side and south side of this new public road to provide a walkway through the development. Because it's a trail, we'd like to be able to have part of the trail fees...but it's going to end up going nowhere through the Klingelhutz plat, and I see... Andrews: Todd, do you want to address that point right now about sidewalks? You gave us a handout about that. Hoffman: I provide that to Mr. Jensen...The request for sidewalks...correct? Don Jensen: Correct. Hoffman: And sidewalks can be requested as part of the subdivision process and certainly as a part of the PUD process. The concept here is that this is a large...residential street which will not only allow access through this proposed development but then allow access through . 53 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . the Klingelhutz proposed development down back to...The City has not been in the practice of discussing trails...trails in residential subdivisions. The city, where required, is in the business of requiring the installation of a concrete sidewalk, 5 foot concrete sidewalk. There is not an error in price. The trail fees...clearly brought out in the comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan identifies the trail system. If an applicant of a subdivision is dedicating right-of-way or constructing a portion of the city's comprehensive trail plan, the city has 100% granted them a trail fee credit for that performance. But not in this case. Lash: Sidewalks are a separate issue from us anyway since that's a condition of the Planning Commission. Don Jensen: That's correct and when we laid this plan out and presented it to everybody, they were collating other departments wishes and that instead of trails, sidewalks was more desirable. Andrews: It would be. Don Jensen: So that's maybe another department's agenda and not really something to talk about here but I guess our question is just, in a lot of subdivisions, there's a changing...that's going on. It's a tier that you can't plan...big trail system. Once you get a real plan and you . decide you want to link it up. Andrews: I'm not sure this is necessarily a part of a trail system but I think a sidewalk as part of a high density, zero lot line PUD is not unusual for the city of Chanhassen so I would say that, only speaking for myself at least, that we would want to see that stay there. But again, I don't think that's necessarily a Park and Rec issue. That's a Planning Commission and Council issue that we could perhaps provide some support for in our final recommendation. Lash: But it doesn't affect the trail fees one way or the other. Hoffman: An example would be the Oaks development...across from City Hall. The sidewalk was a portion of that project...the trail system, which was identified in the comprehensive trail plan... Andrews: I guess another question I have for you Todd would be if we were to move this, the trail that would be south of Lyman, would that be in the proximity to the road where, if road improvements were made, that trail would be built as part of a road improvement or would that then come out of our pocket as a part of a park and trail fee improvement? 54 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Hoffman: Lyman Boulevard would be upgraded and the trail proposed has been included in that project. Andrews: Okay, so we're not in any danger of. Hoffman: Taking a hit? Andrews: No, okay. Hoffman: One issue that Park and Rec mentioned and the staff works hard at attempting to... east and west and you have an opportunity to take a look at Lake Riley, it's probably...The concern that I have though, and I'm not sure that Mr. Jensen's opinion...is that it's not public space which this trail system is proposed to go through. However you're leading the public to a lakeshore area which is...for a variety of things and I as a city staff member would have concern over the...uses in that area and having to deal with those incidence... Lash: Who's property is it right there? Hoffman: As I understand it the... Don Jensen: Yeah, we've been led down a number of different discussion points here. The city has no need for it we've been told, to be dedicated as public park space. We have no need for remnants along lakeshore. Therefore it remains in private hands. However, the city would desire to put a trail that goes as close to the lake as they can...as possible. So we're kind of stuck inbetween trying to design something. You can't really develop where the road is curling and you have slivers in your property. Really perceive that there's a whole lot of public ownership over a remnant. And what we believe that we would like to develop and what's on this plan is where we have a larger space currently, currently right across from the entry, that's where we would like to have dock space for this neighborhood and a small gazebo. The area to the west where we have the trail moving through the trees, as proposed, certainly does seem in our mind to have a great deal of conflict of use. So it's been taken by the public for all practical purposes by the way the road moves through there. The ownership issue, we don't see that much of a problem with. We think it'd be a nice trail. We think it makes better sense than trying to fit a road, water quality and existing wetlands... Lash: When we're talking about a sliver of a remnant, what size piece of sliver are we talking about? Don Jensen: It probably would be about a 3/4 of an acre to an acre of land that could in fact be dedicated to the city. 55 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Lash: On lakeshore? Don Jensen: On lakeshore. So if the city wanted to have a small piece for picnicking off the trail, that's something that I'm just saying, could happen with this subdivision. Presumably we would get some credit for that. I would think that would be a straight out gift but we've been told today that that was not in the master plan so it's not something that you should contemplate. They're possible. I guess what I'm really saying is, we don't see on the west half that there's a conflict moving the trail away from the road. We think that's more desirable to get the trail away from the road... Andrews: I see Todd's point though too, which is people that go by there on bikes or walking or whatever, some people are going to use it as a public beach. No matter what you want to do. Don Jensen: I think you have that for any trail corridor. You have that through any DNR system. There's a whole variety of private/public relationships that exist... Andrews: Now you mentioned about a gazebo and a dock. Have you been in contact with the Planning Commission and City Council as to what the practices are for other? . Don Jensen: Yes. Andrews: Okay. There's been some changes in that over the last few years. Don Jensen: Yes. There's certain allocations based on the...the lakeshore and...that seems appropriate. We're within those guidelines on our application. Andrews: Okay. Anybody else have any questions or comments? If not, we need a motion. Lash: Now wait. I have a couple of questions. And I have a couple of comments too. First I'd like to know if the Klingelhutz property is also proposed as a PUD. Hoffman: It's not been brought back to the Planning Commission with an official application yet. Lash: Okay. So at this point, we have no idea. Don Jensen: We don't know. They were an approved straight zone, standard subdivision. Given all of the things that are going on and in order to get their value out of it... 56 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: Okay. I did some rough calculating here. If the Klingelhutz proposal was roughly 68 homes, this one is 83. That's 151 homes, 3 people per home. 450 people. Our general guideline is 1 acre per 75 people. We're looking at a minimum of, I think between the two developments of 6 acres minimum. We're getting 5 acres and of course with that, I wouldn't have any idea at this point how much of it is really useable. I look at this development as these people have no yards. Y ou're not talking about any place for anybody to do anything. Don Jensen: I guess to explain what the target market is. Lash: Well you know, we hear that. We hear target market all the time and in the end, we don't always end up with the target market but we end up with a whole bunch of houses crammed together and no park and then we're, that's what we're stuck with. So I have found with this whole thing, and I look again that this is a PUD. A PUD to us means we can require above and beyond the minimum requirement. We don't know at this point if Klingelhutz will be a PUD or not. This one is. We've got an acre of lakeshore that's a potential for the city. I would have a problem with not even discussing the possibility of getting an acre of lakeshore property out of this deal. I'm not ready to just go ahead and say that I like this. I don't like this. I don't like this at all, for the reasons I just stated. I don't like any development where people don't have a yard and I don't care if they're 60 or 50 or 40, people need some yards. Huffman: Todd, where's the closest park here? To this one. You've got the planted open area. You've got Klingelhutz. There's another Rottlund development, townhomes going in down there, to the next spot right? Hoffman: The closest existing park? Huffman: Yeah. Hoffman: The closest existing parkland...in the city is Bandimere Park. Huffman: So there's no park there right now? Don Jensen: Well there's within, there is a 10t...Eden Prairie developed park which is within... Huffman: That's our concern of reality. That's not our issue. Lash: So what we're going to end up doing is, we would get 2 1/2 acres, possibly, from Klingelhutz and then have to buy 2 1/2 acres from him to end up with a minimum of 5 acres, which I don't even think is enough for this to start with when we have the opportunity for a 57 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . PUD, trying to get something out of this deal and we're not asking for anything at this point except for fees. I'm having a problem here. Andrews: I understand but this is high density too. I mean that's the comprehensive plan. Lash: But if it's zoned high density, it doesn't mean that they don't need park property. Andrews: Okay, what we're also saying though is that we have an intention of providing some parkland on an adjacent parcel. Lash: And is it enough? And we're having to pay for half of it. Andrews: I think the best we can do out of this is extract the maximum fee, which is 100%. If we're going to take that approach. Lash: Is no one else interested in any kind of, if we ran the trail down by Lake Riley, of trying to acquire some, and put a small beach in there? Andrews: Well you have to provide parking. . Don Jensen: You can't get parking. Lash: You can't put parking in there? Don Jensen: Correct. Lash: Okay, so it's a bike in. Andrews: Comments? Hoffman: Throughout the analysis of the city...it's a very small beachfront. These type of remnant parcels are difficult for anyone to deal with and the project developer before you... It will be facing this at the Lake Minnewashta, Harstad parcel...neighborhood comment on what that piece of property should be used for. This is...not large enough for a public beachfront or public amenity based on the fact that it's very restricted on what it can be used for... My singular concern, and you've got the...However the city does operate in the comprehensive plan. If we deviate from that on certain occasions...Klingelhutz subdivision...5 acres is tight for a neighborhood park. We have requested thaLflat useable property and in some rectangular configuration but again that is...Carver Beach playground, which is 2 1/2 acres which services a neighborhood...Back to stress the point again that if we're going to have a 58 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 dock and a beach front and we're going to run a public trail by it, the applicant may not think that's going to be an issue. I'm sure the residents who live there who have the rights to this dock certainly will have an issue with that. When people walk off this open trail and gain access to that dock or whatever purpose. If they want to sit on the dock and watch the sunset. If they want to fish off the dock or if they want sunbathe off the dock. Those...city staff members. Andrews: It's private property. Hoffman: Well, it will be association property, sure. So the association will call and complain to the City Hall. They're not going to call Rottlund Company. Andrews: I would like to, I wish we could have a beach there that we could properly access but it's not possible. I mean if we had a beach there, even if it's a bike in beach, we can't have it be a beach because you can't get emergency vehicles down there. If somebody were injured, you know in the lake or drown or near drown and we couldn't get at them with emergency vehicles, we're dead meat. Lash: What about the mini-beach at Carver Beach? Is that any smaller? Is that any larger than this? It can't be. Hoffman: No. Andrews: But you can get at that with a vehicle. Hoffman: The overall size is... Lash: Well, yeah when you connect the whole thing but I'm just talking about this. The mini-beach. That's very small. But it's used extensively. I think that any time you have an opportunity to put in a little public beach, people are crying for beaches. Huffman: North of that property, is that the Rice Marsh Lake on the back side? Is north there. There is a comprehensive trail system eventually someday to go around Rice Marsh Lake? Hoffman: Correct... Huffman: Where will it hook up with this neighborhood? Hoffman: It will not. It will be cut off by Highway 212. 59 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Huffman: Okay. Lash: Where's the Klingelhutz park? Is it abutting this? The property that we want to get for the park, would it be abutting this? Hoffman: To the west. Lash: So if we extracted some property, it could be. Don Jensen: The park is in the center of the subdivision. That was the question. The park property in the Klingelhutz subdivision is some distance away from the boundary line here. Lash: So we wouldn't be able to extract some property here and have it, have the park be larger? Right. Hoffman: Not in it's current proposal. Andrews: We just got contradictory answers here from the two of you. Don Jensen: Well I saw a couple of concepts where it was further west and the original plat . on that was pre-wetlands... If I could take you to the aerial here, what your regulators are talking about is that there's a zone roughly immediately west of the farm road. You can see it on this aerial through here that on the record plat, which has expired for Klingelhutz, there's now a wetland...This whole zone through here is...hillside if you will so there's no... immediately adjacent to this. The westerly line of the projecLSo it becomes, you would have to fill wetlands in order to get more park space there and do iLl don't know that that's in the public interest. Andrews: It'd be difficult at best. Lash: How far is the road? If the road were moved back down the way that you are wanting it be moved back down, how far would it be from the road to the lake? Don Jensen: Approximately 100 feet. At the furthest, it is fairly, it's a little bit. What'd we be trying to do is to get it about as close to the lake as you could see the existing alignment. Currently over here on the west, and really try to just stay..,just as you are over here. Here you're pretty high up on the bluff but there's quite a bit of trees through here. It's a little bit tougher to see the lake. We've got some good open use through here. A new design takes the road and curls it a little bit softer through here. Swung it up over the road. Current road. 60 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 So we're looking to take it on the curve and then flatten it out. Really over this existing gravel road right there. Lash: The only, to me the only redeeming feature of this whole thing is if we were to be able to extract the beachfront property. Run the trail down there. So it's a little bit of a secluded spot. 100 feet for an emergency vehicle I don't even think is that bad. The beach in our neighborhood is smaller than that and it's 100 feet for an emergency vehicle and it's used a lot and people think it's the greatest thing. And to pass it up I think is a crime. Andrews: Make it fly. This is a democracy here. Hoffman: Chairman Andrews, just to clarify my response in regards to Commissioner Lash's question. Whether or not you could adjoin these two properties...identify the two drawings, considerable common frontage to the north of those wetlands where joint property could be acquired. Don Jensen: To further clarify. We're responsible to delineate wetlands within the boundary lines of the land we're proposing to plat. The Klingelhutz subdivision and the zone that I was looking at on the aerial, we're not responsible to delineate a wetland on the adjacent property. The wetlands representative, Diane Desotelle, in walking the site to verify what we were showing the city, noted that the new laws that exist up and through this current legislative session, there is a zone through here that would now end up being delineated onto Klingelhutz. On any type of re-application that occurs there. So we're not trying to mislead anybody by what we submitted but the areas that have known wetlands, on the previous project, are very clear that they're...but the areas that were fuzzy, were those other areas that just fall into the new mapping under the latest laws that we all have to follow. That could change in 2 months. This may be no big deal... Lash: But you're saying you could end up with a common piece between the two? Hoffman: Sure. Andrews: Maybe. Hoffman: ...this property, that's not higher density...single family property. Lash: What is the property value? Hoffman: ...estimated for you. 61 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Don Jensen: What the city is looking to acquire, I believe the north half of Rice Marsh Lake and the 212 corridor...anywhere between $25,000.00 and $40,000.00 an acre. That's been the going price...acquisition for that. Developable land to the north. Less developable land... Andrews: The piece we're talking about here, it would have a lower value being that it's a centered piece and not really developable anyway but it's, like I say, it's all fuzzy. Hoffman: I've heard nowhere of a $40,000.00... Certainly $25,000.00. $20,000.00 to $25,000.00. Lash: And what kind of fees would we be collecting? Park fees from this. Hoffman: $900.00 in park fees for each unit... Huffman: Can we collect that trail fee on that $40,000.00 piece of land rather than the $20,000.00? Meger: Todd can you comment, one more time when you were looking at this property and looking at the merits of the acre down by the lake, why you felt it wouldn't be something that we'd want to maybe take a look at more specifically? . Hoffman: Public access, you'd certainly, we have very minimal parking at Carver Beach and Carver Beach mini-park and... If you wanted to...pursue acquisition of the property and some form of public... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Don Jensen: ...$10,000.00 in cash. Meger: So what did you say? Don Jensen: $100,000.00 for 75 units. Not the 83 that you were looking at. Lash: So you're looking at $IOO,OOO.OO? Don Jensen: That'd be $100,000.00, presuming we'd build out before you raise your fees. Lash: And that's park and trail or just park? Don Jensen: That'd be park and... 62 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Lash: Okay, because I calculated at 85 units for just the park fees was $76,500.00 so we're somewhat. I guess my recommendation that I'm waffling on right now. The minimum that I would want to do is require the area by the lake. And I guess I'd like us to try and acquire also an acre that would be adjoining the Klingelhutz property so we'd have a 6 acre site of usable property for both of these together. If that looks like it would be, if that part of it would be just a real problem for everyone here, I'd be willing to back off on that one. But at this point in time, considering the fact that this is a PUD, with the lakefront property, it's not usable necessarily to the developer anyway. I would suggest that we not even give credit for the lakefront. It would just be a condition. Huffman: Why don't you make a motion? Lash: Okay. Is there any other discussion on it? I mean do other people have. Andrews: There has to be a second first. Huffman: I second. Andrews: So the way I'm understanding it, you're asking for an acre plus the lakeshore. Sidewalks are going to stay obviously. Lash: And we don't have any say about that. That's Planning Commission. Andrews: Yeah. Okay. What's the scale of that drawing 'there? Don Jensen: This is 1 inch equals 50 feet. Lash: I guess my question for Todd is, if we were to require an acre and it's abutting the Klingelhutz property, is that decent property to put the park on or is that, if it's not a good choice for the property, then it would be stupid on our part to require it. Hoffman: It's going to limit the application which can be investigated as far as acquisition of parkland. Lash: Right. But is that a decent site or do we want it, are we preferring a different site further west because it was better property to develop? Hoffman: Those are some of the reasons. It allows more flexibility as well for the current applicant to locate the park...park location along the east and west boundaries. These two parcels...Diane discovered this wetland property...Have the road connection to get to that... 63 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Berg: How close and how accessible is Bandimere from this development? Hoffman: It's outside of the service area along..Jt will be accessible across Lyman Boulevard. Down Lyman Boulevard and crossing south on...and accessing it through...just about a quarter mile wide. And then walking back over to Bandimere Community Park. Berg: So it's not too far. Hoffman: 3/4 of a mile. Lash: Maybe the adjoining property is putting us in too much, it's too... Andrews: I think it is. I think it's going to put us, we could end up with an acre that we can't use. Lash: Okay. And that makes sense to me. But I still want to make the motion that we approve this with the condition. Andrews: You want to amend your motion? . Lash: Yeah. Well actually I didn't even think I'd made a motion but it kind of got turned into one. So that the motion would be amended, if I made one before, that we not require the 1 acre but that we require the lakefront parcel and that we still would collect full park and trail fees. Don Jensen: A portion of the lakefront parcel, correct? I guess I wouldn't want it so generic as to a lakefront parcel. Lash: I wouldn't want anything as generic as a portion of it. Huffman: It's your amendment. Lash: Right. I mean I don't know what you're trying to say. Don Jensen: Well I described the westerly portion of the project where we're pulling the bike path off the roadway as being an area that seems right for a credit for park purposes. Now with that plan presentation, the easterly portion is an area we propose to retain for our purposes of having beachfront access. Lash: So how much would be left? 64 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Don Jensen: There's approximately, on our proposed plat there's 1.9 acres down there that's inside the little driveway. So there's a... Lash: So a portion, an acre would be association and an acre would be city? But the trail would go through. Don Jensen: The trail would go through the portion by the city and hug the road and then a portion by, if you look on Todd's plan, that would be association and then... Lash: Okay, so the trail wouldn't be going right through the association part so we maybe wouldn't have that much problem with it then. Andrews: Would you want to say something as simple as 50% of the available beach right- of-way be dedicated to the city and 50% remain under the control of the developer? Don Jensen: That's the question I guess you're asking Council to debate. I mean that's something I can take with the design. Something that makes some sense land use wise. ...removes conflicts between private and public, then that's certainly. We're going to ask the Council to give credit for it. We're not going to want to just dedicate it free. Whatever our lawyers tell us... Lash: Well and we'll make it now that there would be no credit for it considering the fact that you're a PUD and that would be something that we would ask that's above and beyond the normal. Andrews: So the motion is that we would require approximately 50% of the lakefront right- of-way. Lash: And a usable portion. Andrews: And a usable portion. The westerly 50% approximately. And we've got a second. Did you second that? Huffman: Oh god, I'm running on this one. Andrews: Okay. We've got a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Huffman: You going to put a guard tower up on your half? 65 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 . Hoffman: Rather than trai1...do we want to clarify that? Typically...members of the beachlot association?.. Lash: He said it's not going to be. Dan Jensen: Up against Lyman Boulevard on the easterly portion. Hoffman: Okay, well on this plan it'd be... Don Jensen: What we had submitted back to planning staff, maybe I can use your marker. Hoffman: You bet. Don Jensen: Hot dog. Is that trail would run, roughly up to here. Connects back with the road and goes out this way. Goes up this way and that is out of our current proposal to staff. That's our current record drawing. It's squiggly now. The trees...when you're out there, if you drive it, you can see that it looks logical. Andrews: Okay...any more discussion? Any more questions? . Lash moved, Huffman seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission n~commend that full park dedication fees be collected pel" city ordinance. These fees are in lieu of land dedication, except for the lakefnmt po.uon, mughly 50% of the westedy light-of-way. It is n~commended that full oml fees be collected per city ordinance. These fees an~ in lieu of oml consouction. Tlml easements shall be dedicated as depicted on the pmposed plat. futelior oml loop system to be consoucted by the applicant All voted in favo.; except Commissioner Andl~ws who opposed, and the motion canied with a vote of 6 to 1. Andrews: I'm opposed. Only because I think this beachfront's going to be a headache but otherwise. I mean I like to swim and I like beaches but I just think it's going to be a headache. Don Jensen: If I could interject. If the intention is that you think that there's going to be a docking facility with a roadway, road ramp, that's not going to be the case. Planning staff was telling us there's no way...granting boat ramp. Lash: No. Just a small swimming beach. People go down and sit by the lake with a picnic table... Andrews: Thank you Mr. Jensen. 66 . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 9, 1995 Don Jensen: Can we have a clarification here? ...the first dedication program it was talked about townhouse as having different numbers, categories... This is typically a townhouse development... Could we come back to this group or discuss with this group what your mix is going to be or is that something that, who cares what the market is or what the target market is, we're going to call it all single family? For example, on the plan. Andrews: We have nothing to do with this discussion, I can assure you. Don Jensen: I just wonder because this code, and I don't know whether we bring this in front of the Planning Commission. Approximately a third of these dwelling units is a single level, slab on grade dwelling where the buyer could option second floor space if they wanted. If they have kids come back from school or whatever. Rock solid in the empty nester category, you normally have two occupants in this townhouse platting. Hoffman: Single family homes. Don Jensen: The other's a little bit more tough. We can tell you what our target market is but there's 2 or 3 bedroom plans so you'd probably say 3 per dwelling would be fair. . Hoffman: As I understand it, these are single family dwellings. Don Jensen: They're on a townhouse. Called detached townhomes...market. Hoffman: The lower fees for a multi-family...this is single family, detached... Andrews: That's not our area, sorry. More dollars for the lawyers. Okay. Lash: Okay, I'm ready to quit now. Didn't know this was going to be so hard. Andrews: Any other business quickly here? Alright. Hearing none, is there a motion to adjourn? Lash moved, Huffman seconded to adjoum the meeting. All voted in favo.' and the motion canied. The meeting was adjoumed. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim . 67 . . . /Q. CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREA nON COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MAY 23, 1995 Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Jan Lash, Dave Huffman, Jim Manders, Fred Berg, Jane Meger, and Ron Roeser STAFF PRESENT: Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent; and Erik Donley, Recreation Intern VISITOR PRESENTA nONS: None. FEASIBILIlY REPORT: POWER HILL PARK DRAINAGE. Dale Gregory presented the staff report on this item. Roeser: What do you think of the soil, even if it were dry? Gregory: The word is, it's a lot of fill and it's basically a park that's basically a lot of fill in. They took kind of a swampy area and they made a park out of it, is what they done. Roeser: Right. It was the builder that put that down, right? Gregory: You could use it for open space, green area and that. Put in volleyball courts and stuff like that in. It's going to be real bad. Simply, it's going to be like Curry Farms. We did the same thing over there. We put a volleyball court in...down a foot and we have got nothing but muck underneath there and they done the same thing over there. Just filled it. It's a bad situation. If you want just an open green space, that would be fine. Lash: So kids could playa ball game and stuff down there but nothing. Gregory: Oh yeah. That would be fine. Lash: The residents had asked us about the trail area. They said that that is very wet up along the, which direction would that be? Roeser: It must be south. Gregory: South, where the trail runs from this park along. Lash: Right. Would this take care of that too? 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Gregory: No. This has got nothing to do with that. We have already gone in there last year and we have run drain tile across at all the points where people are running their sumps to that part already. And we have quite a bit of that already here. We've already, we've run quite a bit across there. I don't know that we've got all of them yet but if we haven't, we'll have to put more...and all you do there is just run drain tile straight across from where they run their sump pumps so. I know that the trail was real wet because we couldn't even mow it last year. But we did, I think we cut about 5 tiles last fall going across there. Lash: So do you have a rough estimate how much more it would be if we wanted to correct that? Gregory: That would be minimal. I mean the cost of the tile, which is 59 cents a foot so basically it'd be just our labor putting it in, which...and I think we'd do that anyway just simply to get the trail... Lash: I would suggest that we, I'm not interested in taking any more money out of our contingency fund this year for this particular site, given it's only May. My suggestion on this would be to put this amount into our '96 budget so we could do it the next year. Roeser: I'm not even sure we should do it next year but I certainly feel that we shouldn't do . it now. I don't think we should spend any money, any more contingency money on that. To me they should let that be a nice wild little park down there where the kids can play when they feel like it and let it go otherwise. That's just the kind of piece of land it looks like to me. It doesn't look like you can make a decent ballpark out of it. Lash: No, and I'm not even suggesting that that would happen but my understanding was that a lot of times it's too wet to even just go down there and playa little pick-up. Gregory: Along the east side of, along those houses, there's times we can't even mow down there. I mean you can't even walk around there. Roeser: If you drained it, would you have to shut off those sumps? Gregory: No, actually what we're doing is, those sumps coming into it, what we're trying to do is we're trying to catch the water that comes into the park at our boundary line and start directing it down underground. The way it is right now, there's going to be times that we can't even mow it. We're going to have just basically I drive down there. Along the lot lines. I guess I'm not even saying we have to... 2 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Andrews: I don't look at this as a contingency expense either. I think this is something we build into our long term projects because it's not what I would call an emergency expense, in my opinion and I think we'd be irresponsible, as Jan said, to spend all our money now and be faced with nothing later and we could have a real emergency later that we would have no money for so, I agree. I'd like to see this put into our budget considerations for the next time we work on annual budgets, and if it passes the test then, we'll do it. If it doesn't, then we don't. I kind of waiver back and forth as we're spending $5,000.00 to dry up a swamp. Swampy area versus what this $5,000.00 does for other places. So I think it would be better to do this at our regular budget meeting where we could compare this money. See what it could do somewhere else and maybe make a better choice too. I think we do need a motion though if we're going to take any action, or if anybody else has more comments to make. Berg: I felt the opposite way for the same reasons. I'd like to see it get into operation as soon as possible. It's there. It's something that the kids could be using. If it takes 5 days, it's ready to go by June. Gregory: Well like I told Todd. The 5 days is 5 working days. Now if he wants it in a hurry, we're going to have to put other things on the back burner, which is...Pheasant Hills Park and these things that have been waiting for quite a while and Todd's reply was that, if it goes, he said we're probably looking at more towards fall. After, we put it in line with everything else. It would be done probably in the fall because right now we don't have the time to do it. Berg: Well, okay now I take back everything I just said... Lash: Okay. I also want to go on record that I have a little frustrations with us spending $5,000.00 to dry out this property when all of the homes surrounding it are pumping their sump pumps into it. So they're contributing a good deal of the problem but we're expected to pay the money to rectify the problem so I'm going to have some mixed feelings about it. I probably will end up having to do it but I have some frustration with that and I don't know if there's anything that can be done. There's another place for them to route their sumps? Andrews: Into the storm sewers. They could do that. Lash: Okay. Gregory: If it wasn't for the sump pumps, we could make that usable without any... Lash: You know the residents are coming to us. They want us to clean it up, dry it up, but they're the ones causing the problem so. 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Manders: I would say that I'm certainly against the idea of spending the money and that I really do question whether we should even do this tiling to begin with. Andrews: My other frustration is that the builder probably got full park credit for this land and it's unusable swamp land, as we would normally classify this at this point. I mean if another project ",came to us and said I'll give you some land but it's going to be wet and unusable, we'd say that's great but give us some proper land to go with it so. I mean we're spending money basically to bailout a job that wasn't done right to start with and I have a tough time with that too. Lash: Okay. I move that we table discussion on this project until the budget, the meeting where we discuss the upcoming budget. Andrews: And as a friendly amendment to that, to make sure that this is brought up as a discussion item for budget meetings so, is there a second to that? Roeser: I'll second. Andrews: Okay, any further discussion? Lash moved, Roeser seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission table discussion on the dl'ainage issue at Powel' Hill Pari< and to bling them item back up fOl' discussion at the annual budget meeting, All voted in favor and the motion carlied unanimously. . LAKE ANN PARK BATIING CAGE: CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION, Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item. Chris Polster: Well Jerry's just about said everything. We've got the bids on the fencing and that comes out to be about $7,600.00 for fencing. That will be 70 feet long by 42 feet wide. The electrical work is going to be about 31, no $1,876.00 it is and we're not going to need a transformer for that. Our electrician got with NSP out in the field and...Jerry, I don't know if you were there but they reviewed the area and what they can do is run a cable from the facility up on top. It will be...concession stand I guess, and then trench it. We're going to trench down to the electrical outlets. The electricity would be by the hill so we won't need that external structure of the transformer which I guess personally I don't look forward to that... So anyway, that bid came in at $1,876.00. No special requirements really, just digging a trench. Of course what they will need is a little bit of a contour map or whatever showing where the sprinklers might be or any obstructions or whatever. And probably, and a line on where exactly you'd like the cable to run, which I would think would be partly a technical 4 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 decision... The cage will be 12 feet tall. There will be a net...nylon net covering the top that can be removed in the wintertime and then two curtains on the inside so there will really be three cages when those curtains are pulled up. That's also removable in the winter time. We'll be digging a trench about 2 feet beyond the fence line in all directions, meaning the limestone or the ag lime will be about 4 to 6 feet by about 74 feet. Again, that's so the staff can cut grass without moving the cage itself. And I don't have a quote on the trench yet. Or I mean on the ditch. That's going to be about 8 inches deep, if I remember right. And then we'll fill it with an ag lime and the quote we have on that is $320.00. Again, the trench... But also then we'll have about $800.00...sales tax so depending on what total amounts to, $14,800.00, which is $200.00 less than what we budgeted for in the CAA. So if the quote comes in more than $200.00, we'll have to amend our budget. Any questions? Berg: Is 12 feet high enough? I know we were talking about different heights. Chris Polster: That's great...Actually 12 feet is much better. Berg: And the curtains on the inside, we talked about the safety factor. Is that what those are there for? Chris Polster: We wanted to separate the cages, yeah. You could just put littler curtains out too, as another option and we'd go about 15 feet... to separate the batters but then you've got balls flying possibly to other machines and from a safety perspective, I think we'd just as soon protect each lane fully. And then also we'll have some netting right behind the pitching machine. That's where most of the action... Berg: ...that this is as safe as it can be? Chris Polster: Yeah. I guess I don't know how safe it can ever be but in looking around the cities, in Eden Prairie and some of the other communities, this is pretty much, and working on consultation with the fencing company who installs quite a lot, this is fairly standard so I guess it's as safe as we can imagine it will be. Weare looking into insurance too. The CAA has also budgeted money for our own insurance. I don't know being this is the city's cage, I'm not sure that that would have too much effect...cage quite extensively so they would be covered by this insurance also. We're getting a couple of quotes on that. So we will have our own Insurance. Roeser: Will somebody be manning these things when they're in operation? Suppose I want to go out there and hit balls on a Sunday afternoon. Can I just walk in there? I won't hit any but. 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Chris Polster: We're going to make access not so much, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's kind of the City's property basically. We're turning it over to the city but I know we would like to see it fully supervised and anytime it's being used by kids...know how we're going to do it. It seems like in the CAA we'd like keys to be made accessible to the coaches so they can, I don't know, go to the cage...and have practice with their kids. Beyond that, frankly we did have some discussion and I don't know if Jerry has thought too much about that but one of the advantages of not owning the cage is that we don't have to think about that. Roeser: So Jerry has to think about it. Ruegemer: Yeah, those are some of the types of issues really that the commission, when this whole batting cage proposition I guess came up. It's a great idea to see...donating the cage to the city but yet it's going to be, really the ball is to going to be dropped in our lap...the commission needs to think about as far as, if we want to staff it. It's there. It's a public amenity...sit there. Then how do we better utilize that space in a safe manner. Really, the opportunity, how many? Three pitching machines out there at probably $1,500.00-$2,000.00 a piece I would imagine so, plus the cage itself so it's not just a little cheap toy out there. We're going to take care of it and we'll maintain that area...things that we can look at as far as staffing it. Chris Polster: And the machines will be secured. We're trying to get the metal boxes like what we have out at some of the different fields behind the back drop. If you've seen some of those. They're pretty tough and durable and we'd like to, just like we did out at Lake Susan. Where we keep the machines in there and...! don't know if it's practical to really be locking the cage but nobody's going to use the cage too often I guess without the machine unless there's... So to get that machine, I guess somebody would have to have the key to get into the box itself. And there's different things we can do. We can, give a key to each coach or make a key available from the attendant maybe, you know at the shack there. I really feel strongly that kids shouldn't be using it without supervision however. There has to be some kind of adult supervision. . Berg: Might it work better, I don't know. Just like the way we've got it in the middle school for basketball where if there was a key at the community center, that we could work out something with the Rec Center right across the street. We're very close to that where I would be worried personally if there were 2 dozen keys floating around the city, because keys get lost. Andrews: Or duplicated. 6 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Berg: Or duplicated. If you have 1 or 2 keys, that works very well at the Middle School I thought. Then you know where it is. Who's got it if it's not there, and you can track it down. As long as we're close. Andrews: With about a $20.00 deposit. Lash: Do they sign it out? Berg: Y eah. You have to go in and sign it out. Andrews: About a $20.00 deposit. Chris Polster: If there is an attendant at the shack in the summertime, basically what's that attended from 10:00 to? Ruegemer: 10:00 a.m. to about 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. weekdays. Chris Polster: And that would fairly well cover summertime. Before Memorial Day of course and after Labor Day you may have to think of some other options but that may be reasonable to except that somebody could check out a key at the shack. Or another thing, we can arrange with the CAA to have field supervisors, which I guess I feel strongly about anyway for first aid reasons and other reasons. There should be, and maybe there is, I don't know but there's baseball going on on one side of the park and adult softball on the other and maybe there should be a supervisor of some kind, especially for the kids for first aid reasons. I know we check in for instance to a communication system that would allow us to immediately get a hold of the fire department if there was an injury. Right now we do have a phone up at the shack that we can get into but I don't know if we've followed up or gotten a key from anybody... Ruegemer: There's a pay phone out there too Chris. Andrews: And there's probably about 30 parents with cell phones with them too so. Chris Polster: Well and that's what we were looking at buying actually is a couple of cell phones and having an actual...volunteer supervisor at the park facility that would have a cell phone in cases of emergencies. So we're willing to consider that. We certainly have enough parents in the community that we could get one a week out of 300 or 400 parents...so we definitely want to work with the city. 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Manders: I have a question that pertains to the field. That field obviously is designed for much larger usage and my question really relates to, at some point down the road if we decide to open the field back up, what it's going to take to move this out of there? Is it going to be an act of god to get that moved out of there? Chris Polster: Probably Dale could answer that from a technical perspective. I imagine a lot of, unless there's... Manders: I would assume that there would be another spot to move it to. Just that we wouldn't be able to use it there because we'd want to use that as a much larger field because it's designed that way. Chris Polster: Yes, to do that... Manders: Really the question revolves around permanency like, if you're putting transformers in and things like that, I start thinking now it's going to take a lot to get it out of there. If it's just picking this thing up and moving it, that doesn't take much. Chris Polster: Well the concrete that the fencing is going to be in will be the tough part. Then it comes...everything's portable. The fencing can come down but then you've got those . poles right in the concrete. I tried to do that with a sledge hammer and I can't do it...It wouldn't be an easy job to do that. Ruegemer: I have a question Chris. This is regarding the breaker box... Are you going to use separate breakers for each circuit? Chris Polster: I don't think separate breakers. I think one breaker box up in the shack is what he's talking about. Ruegemer: ...if you have any problem? Chris Polster: Right. And then having outlets, three different outlets where...coming out of the holes or... Ruegemer: I wanted to ask you too just about restoration to the trench. After that is done, is the CAA going to come in and reseed, black dirt, sod? Chris Polster: I hadn't even thought about it actually. We certainly... Gregory: Are these cages going to be usable for softball? 8 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Chris Polster: The machines are all convertible to softball or baseball so certainly, with three cages, the machines are going to be very convertible to do what they want. Ruegemer: It's my knowledge too that the machines can also revert them back to coin operated machines? Chris Polster: They can be upgraded to that, yes. Well actually one of them. We're only buying one machine. We've got two other machines that are...It's cheaper to buy the equipment altogether in the first place... We can upgrade one... Andrews: Any other questions? Again for the Park Commission, we thank CAA for your contributions and we look forward to this working well and successfully for us. Chris Polster: And thank you on behalf of everybody in the community. This is very good. It's going to be something that will really help attract more kids. Keep more kids... Lash: What's your estimated time of completion there? That they'll be using this. Chris Polster: Well, the sequence begins with digging the hole and I still haven't gotten, hopefully it's not a long lead time to get that done. But the fencing will be available in about another 2 1/2 weeks. Electrical work is available whenever we turn them on. And the ag lime we can get that whenever we make the phone call basically so, at the moment, because what I don't know about that being...Hopefully we can get that done within 2 1/2 weeks. Lash: So how are you, if we're not deciding tonight on the method of use, how it's going to be accessed. How are you going to deal with that up until we come up with some kind of a plan? Chris Polster: Well, I'll be making a lot of phone calls to Jerry. Roeser: Yeah, you're going to build it but we're going to have to supervise it. The Park Commission. Chris Polster: Or be accountable for it. I don't know about supervising it necessarily because again, we're definitely willing to provide volunteer time to supervise it. But accountability certainly, if it's the city's cage, that will make the city accountable for whatever process is established. 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lash: See I wouldn't have a problem with the idea that was thrown out of keeping the key at the front entrance building there with a sign out. But if the attendant leaves at 7:00, we're going to have a problem because people are going to be wanting the key past 7:00. Chris Polster: Of course we could maybe have a slot or something. Lash: Yeah, that's true. Chris Polster: Key slot or, I'd like to think that all the volunteers are honorable. Lash: Well if they've signed up the key, they'll get a call the next day if it's not in the box so. Berg: I still favor going down half a mile to the Rec Center when it's open. Lash: But it's not going to be open. It won't be open this summer, yeah. Chris Polster: The shack allows us to buy time. We can discuss it and then see how things work. Lash: That would give us a year to try too and if it doesn't work out, we can always, but we're going to be faced with that. We need to decide fairly quickly what to do. People are going to want to be using it. . Chris Polster: Yeah, we're already getting calls. Andrews: Next agenda. Jerry, can you make a note on that for next agenda. I think we've got to have that ready. Chris Polster: Is there anything I can do that discussion? Andrews: Be here. I think we need to have information from you as to really at what level can your organization provide volunteer supervision. Chris Polster: Okay. I'll start working on that right now. Between now and then. The cage will have been built presumably by that time. If that's... Andrews: I think we have to have some sort of feel for that in order for us to make any decisions as to how much can we expect to get from you and how well might it work. I expect that this, like many other new things, the usage will start kind of slow and quietly. 10 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 You'll be the main benefactors of that to start with but then the word's going to get out and then everybody else is going to want to use it too so. We'll have a little breathing room to deal with it but we need to get going on this. Lash: Thanks again Chris. Andrews: Any other questions? Comments? Thank you again. SITE PLAN REVIEW OF A 5.000 SQ. Fr. RESTAURANT ON 1.38 ACRES; LOT 1. BLOCK 1. CHANHASSEN RETAIL THIRD ADDITION; PERKINS FAMILY RESTAURANT. GUY PAYNE. Andrews: I review this. What is there to do other than just to be advised that this is happening? Is that the purpose of this item? Lemme: I think the item was put in prior to the knowledge that this had been reviewed by the Commission previously so. Andrews: Okay, so done it, seen it... PROGRAM REPORTS: A. 4TH OF JULY CELEBRATION. 1995 LOGO SELECfION. Ruegemer: If you look in front of you, those were just picked up today. These are put together by students at the Chaska High School. In speaking with Minnetonka High School, they didn't seem to have a whole lot of interest in developing artwork for that so basically these are the selections that were developed I guess for you to take a look at. I don't know if...all put together and I know the names... Andrews: What was the one you liked? Eyes to the skies? Roeser: Yep. Andrews: Fred, I don't see your's. Are you abstaining? Berg: I don't like any of them. Lash: This is the only one I would consider. Is this all computer? Is this a computer class or is this? So it's not the art class? 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Berg: Right. Lash: I thought the art class was going to do something. Berg: This is the art class but it's computer generated art. Andrews: I like this one the best but I guess my preference would be to see this now taken to a hand drawn version of the same thing, or redrawn version. Roeser: Yeah, what kind of colors are you talking about? Is this going to be on shirts? Ruegemer: Yeah. This is going to, whoever designed that over that.. .Keep in mind this might be...it can be touched up I would imagine and cleaned up a little bit but...! think it can be worked on and cleaned up. Roeser: Dawn, what do you think of it? You've got to sell t-shirts. Lemme: If we can get the disk from him, we can touch it up as much as we want but, and we're going to need that because we're going to need to have... Andrews: Yeah, well it says right on here that he's got a disk of it so. . Lemme: Right. But whether or not he wants us to be, would allow us to tweak this to our satisfaction. Andrews: Sure we are. It's our property. Ruegemer: This is the original that I had them make a copy off of. I don't know if that's any representation of colors that. Andrews: We can choose our own color scheme too. Lash: I would need to see it a little closer. Berg: ...with a great big black dot in the middle of this picture. Lash: Well it wouldn't have to be black, would it? Roeser: We've got to show you a nice sky 12 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lash: It could be a very dark blue maybe. Like a little bit of a sunset scene or something. Andrews: It could be blue, grays. Lash: I would, in keeping with tradition, want to have the year on it possibly underneath or something. We've always had the year. Andrews: Yeah, underneath the bottom. Lash: We didn't have it on last year? Ruegemer: No. Andrews: At least they have the city spelled right. I like that. Lash: Really. You haven't seen the shirts yet. Lemme: We can put the year on the t-shirts and not on the hat. . Ruegemer: Yeah. I think we'll try to put the year on the t-shirts. Andrews: Well it seems from the votes here that this was the winner and why don't you see if you can get that disk and take it from there. Ruegemer: The commission did authorize I guess a scholarship for the winner of the contest and that was $100.00. Is that kosher? Andrews: Yep, that's kosher. Ruegemer: Okay. Do you want me to bring that person in at the June meeting to award the $100.00? Andrews: I think you can handle that one. Berg: He's a freshman, he'll be excited. Lash: So we'd be able to alter it if we talked to him about that. We want to have the year on and we may want different colors and things like that. Ruegemer: We can work with him on that. . 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . B. CHANHASSEN CENTENNIAL COMMITIEE. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item. Berg: I think it's rolling in the right way. I think a parade is a great idea. I think of an old time celebration, you have to include the entire High School band. Roeser: They've already been contacted. Chaska and Minnetonka for sure. Possibly Waconia and some of those schools too but we, that's a given as far as the parade is concerned. That's one of the things the committee is probably aligned on... Ruegemer: ...it seemed like a lot of people have been going back and talking to Kerber Boulevard. To have a parade on Kerber Boulevard... Lash: Natural what? Ruegemer: Sitting areas. Designated parade route. Easier for traffic to get in and out of there in case we need to detour people... Lash: When are you thinking about that? Next May? . Roeser: May 5th is the actual 100th anniversary of the city, and that I think falls on a Sunday or Saturday. It falls on a weekend so it's going to work out really good as far as the celebration is concerned. C. IN-LINE SKATING CLINIC. Dawn Lemme presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: No injuries? Lemme: Not that I heard of. We had perfect attendance though... Meger: What were the ages? Lemme: Kindergarten through...grade. The most kids were in the kindergarten to 2nd grade... 14 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: CHANHASSEN RECREATION CENTER OPERATIONS. Dawn Lemme presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: Okay, let's start talking. Where did you want to start then? Lemme: First of all, do you have any questions or concerns, comments on the fees? Andrews: They look perfect. Lemme: Wow. Roeser: Yeah, I've never seen anything done so well in my whole life. Lemme: Okay. Roeser: The only, the hours of operation. Saturdays. I don't know, don't you think people . show up at 6:00 in the morning to do things? Lash: Not if it's not open. Lemme: I think if we find that we're having real heavy demands for that to be open earlier, we can always open it up earlier. Just looking around, you know based on other community centers, recreation centers..J think people sleep in a little bit more on Saturdays. Andrews: Dawn, aren't you going to be the Rec Center supervisor?...Yeah, and what time do you like to get to work on Saturdays? Lash: She's the supervisor, director. They don't have to be there. She'll hire some kid for $5.00 an hour. Lemme: With that, I think we're safer to extend hours or to lower fees rather than try to raise fees and compact the hours. Andrews: Yep. Especially when you first start out. I don't want to be paying staff time to have people just sitting there watching the lights. . 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lemme: That was my fear on Sundays to be opening up at 8:00 a.m. We're real...with any programming, to really avoid that morning. Sunday morning time for people. So that's why... Lash: Under the first two columns where it says School District 112 and 276. Is that blank because it falls into the next category? Lemme: Yes. Lash: Okay, I just wanted to make sure. Lemme: But I left it open down the road because I am not sure what you're going to want to do on the gymnasium portion. What I figured out after our last meeting is that, there's confusion over rentals because of the different types of amenities that we have within the building. A conference room is run differently than a gymnasium you know, so that's why I think people are kind of like, they were looking at fees for a certain room. Some of you were looking at fees for a conference room. Some are looking at, thinking fees for gymnasiums and those are really two different things. Andrews: Any suggestions from commission members here on gymnasium rental? Manders: Is this split up at all? Are you only talking one court or what are you talking about? . Lemme: The gymnasium as a whole. I did want agreement that after hours there would need to be a fee charged to use the gymnasium after normal hours. If there's going to be a lock in or an all night marathon or something like that...charge a fee. One thing Jerry and I talked about was no, we're not going to, if we charge an hourly, if we think of it on an hourly rate type of thing, are we going to incorporate that into our new programs that we've established so that's offsetting some of the cost? How are we, you know we talked a lot about that. Manders: I guess my question is, with both gymnasiums? The school's and our's. I mean are you talking both of them? Lemme: We're not going to have the control over that. Manders: So the School District is separated? How is that separated? Just by an accordion door? 16 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Lemme: There will be a wall. Currently the School District charges us via building attendants or building supervisors. We're not charged a fee to use their side but we are charged for building supervisors. Roeser: You pay the hourly wage for the janitors. Ruegemer: Right. That's just on the weekends, Saturdays and Sundays. Monday thru Friday we are not paying that building monitor because there are... Andrews: I was just kicking around a number in my head here just because I was trying to think, what would I as a group expect to pay if I want to come in and like take the gym over for a volleyball tournament or something like that. The number I came up with as the base rate was $30.00 an hour and then go up from there. $30.00-$35.00 or based on groups but I think that's even very generous actually. Lemme: For the rentals I can probably come up with some fees. What I wasn't sure on was whether or not you want to do any charging for anyone else. Lash: See I guess what I was thinking was the first column, school, civic, church, non-profit. That's going to be CAA. That's going to be all of those kinds of things. I was just looking at, I was thinking no fee for them but a fee for say a private, and I don't even know. I mean what kind of a private entity would want to come rent the gym but I suppose they do. Lemme: There are other programs that are not under CAA and not under the city's... Ruegemer: Junior Olympic Volleyball. Lemme: Right. Are they going to be charged?.. Lash: Well that would fall, would that not fall under non-profit? Andrews: They may not be non-profit. Lemme: I don't know about that. But that's just an example. Lash: Okay. But I guess I was looking at that column as no fee and then we would have to establish for private or business or commercial but I think we would want to review all of those applications very carefully as to what type of usage it is as far as damage to the gym itself. You know do we want to have a Fun Fair set up in there and have people tromping all 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . through there with all different kinds of shoes and heels and wet things and all of that or do we want to, personally I feel like we should be a little more selective. Lemme: See I imagine there are going to be times when the school is going to want the entire thing for a Fun Fair type of function and then in the same respect, there's going to be times when we're going to want the entire gymnasium for our city functions. Roeser: Is that going to be a hard surface floor? Lemme: Yes, it will be a hard floor. Cushioned floor. Andrews: Well after listening to Jan, I agree with her about the non-profit groups as just forget it. That's what it's there for. Let's use it. And I also appreciate your comments too Dawn about, and Jan, about damage. You know again I have this image of the square dance group coming in there and just ripping the heck out of the floor and saying thank you very much and see you later. Lash: And paying $30.00 an hour, and doing $5,000.00 worth of damage. Roeser: What about if a non-profit, just have them kind of base it the same way you do with the school. Pay whatever it costs you to keep. You can't not have that building supervised, right? . Lemme: Right. Roeser: I mean if a church wants to come in there and have an all night lock-in for their teenagers, you're still going to have to have someone there. Andrews: To cover staffing costs. Manders: ...cover minimal costs. Roeser: Yeah. At least pay for whoever has to supervise that all night. The same as you do with the school. Andrews: Good point. Manders: Yeah, I don't see the idea of having. Lash: Although, it will be staffed. 18 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Roeser: Well you have to have one person. You'd have to have a janitor there. You can't just, I wouldn't think you can't just let that, say okay here's the key you guys. Go in there and do it. Lash: But it's going to, is it not going to be staffed all of the hours that it's open? Roeser: Yeah, but it's not going to be staffed all night. I'm talking about...if somebody wants to rent it overnight. Lash: Oh no, she's talked about beyond hours...Oh yeah, I agree with that. Lemme: The square dancing group's another example. Unless it's a program that's run under the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Department where we're establishing a fee based on what it's going to cost us to clean that place up after we've had tap shoes all over the floor, then what it's going to cost us to pay an instructor. Andrews: We're not going to have tap shoes on a wood floor. Huffman: Not having black soled shoes on a wooden floor. Lemme: Okay. Lash: But how are we going to control some of that stuff? If we're in some kind of an arrangement with the school where they allow us to use their's for whatever we wanted to use it for. Let's say we wanted to use it for the Easter Egg Hunt, and it had to be inside. And we're allowed to their's. They, of course, will be expecting for a Fun Fair and those kind of things that they will be able to use our's at no fee, or whatever, without restrictions of what. Andrews: This is one of the joys of joint ownership. I'm sure if it's their group and it wrecks our part of it, we're going to be coming after them saying help us. And if it's the other way around, they're going to be coming to us saying your group wrecked our gym. Fix it. Berg: I look at the use the high school gets though and you can't do more things on that floor than has already been done and it's not getting ruined. They come in once a year in the summertime and take 4 to 5 days and refinish it and it's as good as new again. Lash: Okay. So are they fairly sturdy? Berg: I think they're extremely sturdy. I think you'd have to work to try to permanently damage it. I single handedly have gotten all kinds of water spilled onto that surface and got 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . it to buckle and everything else but that's with an awful lot of ingenuity. I don't think it's a major concern. Lemme: We really hope to be able to expand some of our programs to things we've not been able to do. I'm not saying it's...but it might. Some of those things we'll just have to look at and hopefully we'll have a real good...have a lot of programs that...it's going to be used. It's not going to be all... Lash: Well I'll go back to the fees. I feel like if it's the school, civic, church, non-profit type things, there'd be no fee if it's during the normally scheduled operating hours. There would be a fee as far as what we would have to pay someone to be there. For private and business, commercial. I have no problem with having a fee but I don't know, what are we, I have no idea what a reasonable fee would be. Lemme: I can work those figures... Andrews: And for simplicity sake I mean, to me personally it doesn't matter to me if it's private or business to rent something like that. I mean to me why differentiate there. It's a special use for a special group. I mean that's just my personal feeling but why don't you give us some feedback what other cities are doing and take a look at it. . Berg: And I don't know if we've talked about this and I was asleep. If I just want to walk in and use the jump for an hour, do I have to pay when I walk in the door? Lemme: There will be scheduled open gym. Berg: But if it's open gym, and I going to have to pay $1.50 to come into the building like I do at the Community Center? Lemme: Currently there will be times allotted that will be open gym. Open volleyball. Half might be one and might be another. Might be for pick-up's. There's not, we haven't worked on all the fees. We know that we're not looking at doing a membership for the recreation center. We have talked about doing a punch card type system where you possibly would buy a $1.00 amount and then every time you use, every time you attended...that would be subtracted. Every time you use the fitness room, possibly one for open gym. Right now we charge for open gym. Lash: It's like 50 cents or something. It's very minimal. 20 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Lemme: Yeah, it's very minimal...those specific costs have not been worked out as of yet but that's our idea. But not to have a membership. Huffman: Why was that idea turned down? Lemme: What, the membership? Huffman: Yeah. Lemme: Just because of the limited amenities that we have. There's limited space as well. Andrews: Do we need a motion to talk about this or I think we should come back and clean this up. Lemme: Why don't you make a motion centered around the fees basically what Jan had said and you had almost all agreed on. And then we can tackle the next assignment. Andrews: Okay. I'll move that we approve the fee schedule that Dawn has presented to us with the following addition, which would be as far as the gym rental be, or the gym space goes that that be no charge for school, civic, church and non-profit during regular hours and that we would charge a staffing cost during after hours. Berg: Second. Andrews: Any discussion? Andrews moved, Belog seconded that the Pmk and Recreation Commission approve the fee schedule pn~sented by Dawn Lemme for the Chanhassen Recreation Center amended so that school/civic/chmdllnon-profit not be chmoged for the gymnasium dming n~gular hours, but with a staffing cost after hom'S. All voted in favor, except Mandel'S who opposed, and the motion cmlied with a vote of 6 to 1. Lemme: The hours of operation, I think we've touched on that but if you...either approve or to change... Andrews: I guess I feel that we should consider staffs recommendation that we alter Sunday to 10:00 to 8:00. Huffman: Second. 21 Park and Rec Commission Meetin"g - May 22, 1995 . Andrews: Well, that wasn't a motion but it was a discussion. Huffman: It was a good motion. I seconded your motion. Andrews: Alright, so moved. Any discussion on that? Andrews moved, Huffman seconded to appl'Ove the hoUl'S for the Chanhassen Recreation Center as pl'Oposed with the change for Sunday hours to 10:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. All voted in favor and the motion canied. Lemme: You know one thing that Jerry and I talked about was, I will not be bringing every small detail to you because I know that that's burdensome but these are some main things. These are some pretty big things. Fees, hours of operation and use priority. These are the big issues so once we get these done, it will only be for other big items... Andrews: Okay. Roeser: This way we can spread out the blame. Lemme: Okay, the next item was the use priority and it's something we have not talked about at all yet really... . Lash: I like it. Berg: I second. Andrews: This is consistent with our other programs, correct? Lemme: This is one thing that Jerry does with, for field space for the different youth organizations. If he has meetings with the coaches and they schedule the space according to what's available. It's very possible...because you could have 20 requests on your desk at the exact same time on Monday morning when you open it up for requests and how are you going to judge that when all the youth sports associations that are residents are all considered equal status so my proposal is to do what Jerry does and then have a meeting with the youth sport associations knowing what the available time is. And by available time meaning...open gym time. Park and Rec programs. Andrews: I like your priority schedule. I'll make the statement, just for my own clarification. That would be that number 2, resident youth sports associations to me should say, youth 22 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 sports associations which serve residents so that it's not construed to mean that only an organization that has it's incorporation or address in the city of Chanhassen. Lemme: Jerry, do you have some type of policy on that? I mean if they have one resident on their team, do they have full access to the fields? Lash: No. Ruegemer: Basically mine is based on percentage of,residents and...schedule that as individual team versus as association. So for example CAA, if they have two kids on their team, they can sub out, they've got...you get every Tuesday and Wednesday from now until the rest of the summer for that, as far as the Association. That basically is based on the individual teams. Andrews: I don't have any complaint. I just think we're all trying to accomplish the same thing. Lemme: Resident Youth Sports Association, or Youth Sports Associations serving residents. Now everyone may say, well your residents can come into our association but... Andrews: We're taking care of the people that paid for the building basically, and that's our residents. Lash: Right. What about, what I don't see on this list is private or business things. Lemme: For the gymnasium? Lash: Yes, and there may never be that. Lemme: Basically they're going to be given, if they're going to...probably not going to be a lot of times for those private rentals...from what we're looking at already. We could fill that day between Park and Rec, youth sports associations and school district activity. Andrews: And that's what it's there for. Lemme: So this is for the gymnasium I'm talking so basically 6 is all others. Lash: So where would Scouts fall? Say they want to have a father-daughter night or something. Have a dance in there. 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lemme: They'd be number 6. They'd be all others... Lash: No non-residents would take, non-resident youth sports would come before local. Andrews: But it is a gym though. Lash: Yeah, I know but sometimes you use it for other things. You know what if you're going to have, like you have that, you guys that Valentine's Day, the father daughter something. I know the Scouts usually have something like that too. Lemme: That's, you know we surely could incorporate that in there. If you wanted to say civic and then you say non-profit. Huffman: Wouldn't that fall into Jerry's discussion last time in reserving the space for the time frame of the gymnasium. You could go, if you're a Scout organization, reserve it 12 to 18 months ahead or something like that and then you're beating out non-resident youth sports associations because you have the capability of planning that far ahead. Lemme: One of the things that we talked about is that people will not be able to reserve that far in advance. . Huffman: We talked about locals being able to. Minnetonka, my rusty memory, Minnetonka has a policy, what 12 to 18 months out. Single use. Meger: For a one time shot, yeah. Huffman: And that's exactly what Jan is talking about. A single use shot. You're talking the bottom thing is a block scheduling versus a one time use. And if the Scouts know they've got a father-daughter dance coming over, mother-son or significant other. Andrews: I guess the way I would handle this would be to say that a dance is a sport type use. An active use and I think that could be construed to be an item 2 priority, in my OpInIOn. Lash: But what if we said youth organizations or associations and took sports out? Would that complicate it too much? Andrews: The one thing I don't want to do is have somebody taking the gym that could have used the other rooms because that gym is an active use area. 24 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lemme: If we have the room free for civics, then they're going to want the gym instead of the conference room which we charge for. Lash: Oh yeah, that's true. Lemme: I had put civic and if there's an open space and we can get them scheduled in, sure they'd be given priority but I guess my thought was that CAA and Park and Recreation has been bumped so many times... (There was a tape change during this part of the discussion.) Andrews: ...can we defer that one to the Director? Roeser: A lot of that's going to rest on you anyway Dawn. You're going to have to kind of. Lemme: That's something that I wanted to give consideration too and how far out can people reserve. I did write in here to, I think I did. Something about deposit. Oh, deposit's refundable will be required for private and commercial use...and then a non-refundable down payment and that's within well, currently we're not requiring civic and non-profit groups to . pay deposits. Andrews: I would be very cautious about that. If you don't get money, you don't have a committed group and you'll get people just like groups that I know that will reserve the room as a back-up for an outdoor use and if it's a nice day, they're not going to bother to call you because they've got no money invested. If they don't have money invested, it doesn't matter. So I would be. Lemme: Are deposit's required in the middle school, do you know Fred? Berg: I don't know. I don't believe so. Andrews: It can be a token amount but at least you'll get a phone call from somebody saying we don't need the space anymore. Would you send us our money back. Huffman: Rented the pool. It was only $18.00 for an hour but we did have to put a deposit down on it for a girl's, for our daughter's birthday party...we did. Yeah. And even if it's $5.00 but yeah, Jim's right. Anything, any value of it is. Ruegemer: Should that say in there too, if a phone call isn't received and we get a cancellation, that a small portion of that deposit will be taken? . 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Huffman: The whole deposit. Oh yeah, you lose it. Because it's not a, it doesn't have to be a significant amount that's gone. Andrews: Just because you're not there doesn't mean you haven't used the space, because you have. You've deprived somebody else from using it. Lemme: So if you give them...time for cancellation and if they're not cancelled within 2 weeks, a month or what we determine, they lose their deposit. Andrews: Yep. And if somebody were to whine about that, I mean let's say it's a large reservation scheme that you've worked out here for some group. Then what you could say is if you can find another group to take your space, we can talk but otherwise, no. You don't want to get stuck. Lemme: Chances are we'll be turning away other groups, you know for people... That's the other reason why we wanted to do this...at least twice a year meeting where... Andrews: I'm sure we'll be making mid-course corrections here for probably a year or two. Berg: I'd like to suggest that with the block scheduling, that we think about extending that 3 . months to at least 4 months. Thinking for basketball season for example. That still comes even a little bit short. Then they don't have to worry about continuity. Lemme: I just kind of was obviously thinking quarterly but that's an option... Andrews: How quick are those soccer fields going to be ready? Next year?.. Lemme: That brings me to just a finalize to make sure we're clear on the churches that have been calling me. That was one...on the block scheduling time, there's no way a church is going to want to come in there to rent. Even from 10:00 until noon if they know that they may be kicked out after 4 months. What are we going to do on that? Andrews: Oh well. Lemme: No, you had said you didn't want that but if we're saying just 4 months, but then we've also said that school, civic group, non-profit has 3 gymnasiums. I don't know if they're still going to want to rent or not. I'm thinking probably not but it still would be a possibility I suppose. Berg: Are you talking about renting for services? 26 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Ruegemer: Correct. I think that's. Berg: Can't you, you've got to build in time for open gym. I can't imagine you're going to have any demand from CAA on a Sunday morning for practice space. Could you block that in also? Block in open gym or block in whatever you want so if somebody wants to rent it to use it for a service on a Sunday morning, you'd never be scheduling any youth activities then. Isn't that a possibility? Andrews: I just get nervous about any open ended, long term. Roeser: Yeah, I wouldn't go any more than 4 months with anybody. Huffman: We're not a rental property. We're not a strip mall. Lash: Well and I guess I'd have a problem with a church, even though it's non-profit, coming in and using the only gym we're going to have in town every Sunday morning for free, and then it's not available for open gym. You know not everybody goes to church. You know some people might, that might be a good time for them to go and not have it be real crowded and go shoot hoops or do whatever and we're not going to get anything out of it. You know if we were going to charge them, I'd think different but. Lemme: The group that I've talked to is looking at, they would like the gym and the conference room. I'm sure both of them if they could have them both. Huffman: Absolutely. Andrews: Who wouldn't? Huffman: Cheap. I want it for that time. I'll go out and find 600 people to put... Andrews: Why don't we do this, so we can kind of make step by step progress here. We talked about use priority for the gymnasium and I think we had agreement on that. Why don't we get a quick motion on that and approve that section and then move on to this discussion of, let's take care of the conference community rooms and then come back to this any long term priority discussion so we can kind of get certain things behind us for good. Can I have a motion on the gymnasium space here. A priorities list please. Berg: I move we accept staff recommendations for the use priority for the gymnasium. Andrews: With the addition of number 6 as all others? 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Berg: Yeah. Huffman: And the addition of a maximum of what, 4 months? Berg: Yes. Andrews: Okay. Is there a second to that? Meger: Second. Andrews: Any discussion? Berg moved, Meger' seconded that the Park and Recr-eation Commission appr'Ove the Use Priority for' the Gymnasium as follows: 1. City of Chanhassen, Park and Recreation 2. Resident youth sports associations 3. School Districts 112 and 276 4. Non-Resident youth sports associations 5. School districts other than 112 and 276 6. All others . All voted in favor' and the motion canied unanimously, Andrews: If we could, could we just quickly go over the community meeting rooms and conference rooms and take care of that one in a similar fashion. Is there anybody that has any additions or ideas for that, or changes to that list? Lash: What's City of Chanhassen other? Lemme: Planning Commission for having a special meeting on a new development. Don Ashworth wanting a special... Any other city, outside of Park and Rec. Meaning City Hall. Andrews: Okay. Any other changes? If not, somebody want to move to approve this list? Huffman: Well let's get it on the table. The church issue. Churches wanting to rent long even long term conference space in there. Is that something we're interested in? Andrews: Well we can handle that. 28 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Lash: Let's do the priority first. I move we accept staff recommendation for priority for the community meeting rooms and conference rooms. Andrews: Is there a second to that? Roeser: Second. Andrews: Any discussion? Manders: Are we going on 4 months there or 3? Andrews: We'll get back to that. That's not part of the motion so we'll come to that. Huffman: Well I want to discuss that. Let's clear this up. Because if we're going to set a priority... Andrews: Sir, sir. That's not part of the motion. We'll come back and deal with that in a separate motion because I think that's the best way to handle it is to talk about policy in a separate motion. Huffman: Well, okay. Andrews: It's two separate issues in my opinion. Huffman: Well it's not in mine. Andrews: Any other discussion? Lash moved, Roeser seconded that the Palk and Recreation Commission accept the following for Use Pliority for the Community Meeting Rooms/Conference Rooms: 1. City of Chanhassen, Park and Recreation Department. 2. City of Chanhassen, All Other Departments. 3. Resident Civic/Church/Non-Profit/Schools. 4. Resident Business/Corporate or Private. All voted in favor, except Commissioner Huffman who opposed, and the motion canied with a vote of 5 to 1. 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Andrews: Okay now, let's come back on this issue of long term rentals. I personally am concerned about that. Partly as a fairness issue between existing churches, new churches or other non-profit groups. I'm a member of a church that's about to spend a million dollars on an addition. We'd love to come down here and rent the space and not spend the money so it's, to me it's almost a fairness issue in one way and I'm also concerned about, was it Jan that made the comment. Was that you about the, what if there is a group of people that Sunday morning is their day off or they don't go to church or they're from a faith that doesn't worship on Sunday's. They're out. What are they going to do? So that's my feeling. Lash: And all of those people would be taxpayers. You know and the church is not paying taxes. Granted, the congregation members but they may not be even residents. They could be from who knows where. Roeser: We could really get in trouble I suppose if we said we weren't going to rent for church services. Lash: To what? Roeser: If we just straight up would not rent for church services. Andrews: Well we just talked about, you can't say church. You've got to say 4 months or no more than 4 months. . Lemme: ...no longer than 4 months. I can imagine, at least the two churches that have been talking to me saying they're going to have to, we're going to have to play it by ear for you after these 4 months because they're going to change all of their materials I'm sure to say, meeting in Chanhassen Recreation Center, 8:00 to 10:00 every Sunday morning not even knowing that they're going to be able to there the next 4 months. Berg: Because the reality of the situation is, they can go right next door to the other gymnasium and get it. The School District, through Community Ed. Lash: For an ongoing? Berg: They won't be paying for it but they're going to be able to guarantee that they can have it 12 months of the year. Lash: But then they're paying for it. Berg: Exactly right. 30 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Lash: See if they were paying us for it, I wouldn't have as much of a problem. I have a problem with giving it up, blocking it out for nothing. Roeser: It just seems to me that Sunday morning is a good time for open gym for people that don't go to church or go to church on Saturday night or you know. I really think, I hate to say this but I'm kind of opposed to renting it for church services. Lash: I don't have a problem with the rooms, conference rooms. You know if it's a small budding church that has 50 members right now or something and they want to rent out the community room every Sunday, I don't have a problem with that. It's not tying up the gymnasium, plus we're getting some money out of it. Berg: I think it's better to be consistent all the way across. Meger: I think it is too. I think we need to set our block of time and. Andrews: Live with it. Meger: And it doesn't matter what congregation it is. Berg: You can give them the number of Community Ed and say there's a building right next door that you're perfectly capable of renting. Lemme: I think there's a waiting list of people who want to get into Chan Elementary and it will be the same for their's. Andrews: We built the facility with a certain purpose in mind and I'm really concerned that if we overbook it right away, we've already created a shortage before you've even opened the doors and I'm concerned about that. Meger: I have a question regarding the blocking time concept. If you're saying okay, you can rent a block for January, February, March, April. At what time can you start reserving the May, June, July, August? Lemme: That's what we need to determine. How many months in advance can you... I can't remember what Chaska's, I don't have my two packets...but I think they have. Meger: I think I'm getting confused if we're talking about two different things where I can reserve something 4 months ahead of time and I can reserve for that month only. So in other 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . words, in January I can reserve as far out as May but I can't go into July so then the next month I would look at it. Roeser: Oh, why not, yeah. Just extend it. Meger: So and that's why I'm not sure exactly what we're talking about. Roeser: Maybe the last month of your 4 month, you know. That would really be difficult though wouldn't it for you? It'd drive you crazy because if you had a whole bunch of people with different times but maybe you shouldn't be able to rent 4 months ahead except at the end of your, or into your fourth month. Huffman: Well that's a good issue and that's why I voted no on the last amendment because when you put a church in that situation, that's exactly what you've created. The opportunity for them to do that. Andrews: Is to extend. Huffman: Yes. But we're singling out an issue, and a single reason here and. Andrews: We can't do that. . Huffman: Well, I'll put my feelings out there. I think it smacks a lot of Eckankar. I think there's a lot of people here who said if there was some prior planning done, there's still a lot of feelings running high, a lot of different directions, a lot of different ways. And good or bad, it's not my decision to make those judgments but Jim your comment was, we're building a facility with a specific purpose in mind and it is not to exclude anybody, but it's also not to lock up this building for a church service. Andrews: Or other non athletic use really. Huffman: Anything like that, absolutely. But I'm going to deal with the issue straight on. There's two people standing out there in line who'd like to very much put this into almost a retail Sunday morning service and that makes me very nervous. So I'm not trying to be rude to anybody but I do want the gym open on Sunday mornings. And if they'd like to come in and rent it afterwards, whatever, that's fine but there's a lot of people out there that's a lot smarter than me and once they figure this system out, they're going to find the loopholes. And that's what I'm concerned about. Berg: Is it realistic they'd come in and rent this before 10:00? 32 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Lemme: Yes they could if they wanted to... Berg: There's always that option for them too. Andrews: My feeling would be that we would remain with this 4 month block irregardless of what their organization is and then as part of that system, have a requirement that they could not apply for a new block until at least a 60 day wait. Berg: Make it 30 days. Andrews: Well I'm not saying they'd have to wait until 30 days from the end. I'm saying halfway through their 4 months they could apply for the next. Lemme: You'd probably want to shorten your time for. Like I say, we're going to have so many different groups. It's all going to be on the computer. It's not going to be my personal nightmare to figure out the scheduling. That's what we have a really nice computer system for. Andrews: Well maybe we say that you can apply for an additional, or another block 30 days before the end of your current block expires. Something like that. I don't know how to handle that but I see the problem of just extending it. I mean I could see somebody saying, well if it's a 4 month block, I'll apply today and I'll apply tomorrow and I'll apply the day after and I'll apply the day after. Roeser: Well, we'd have to prevent that. Andrews: And we don't want that, no. We want to make sure that a new group may have the opportunity to, if they have a use that would also be deserving. Lemme: Is it a norm that the, your sports associations would be more months or is it more say, is it mainly like 3 months and then there might be a couple weeks tagged on...re-extend their contract 30 days prior to that 3 month ending. Andrews: Well they don't have to take the full 4. They could say we only need 3. Well, let's book 3 but I also see the point of a 4 month, a lot of seasons are more than 3 months now so. Ruegemer: I can see a longer period too for the application process. I see all the applications for basketball in July, and your season starts the first of the year. 33 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lemme: That's a good point. Andrews: Well programming is different than what we're talking about I think. Any more comments? Meger: Well, I'm wondering about the 4 months too when you have crossing over of seasons so. Andrews: It'd work out. Lemme: ...work out that those few sports associations...the amount of time. Berg: ...to the sport to the season in which it belongs. Andrews: What does that mean? Roeser: No soccer in January. Huffman: I like it though. I thought it was good. Whatever it meant, I liked it. Berg: Basketball's a winter sport. Volleyball stops in the fall. That's what I mean. . Andrews: Play soccer all year. Lemme: Alright. Did someone want to clarify this? Roeser: Nobody wants to clarify this. Huffman: No, I'm backing off. I mean I'm running with the herd now. I'm backing off. I made my statement. Lash: I don't think you've changed your mind and I don't think you're running contrary to the herd. What I heard was that, from the herd, is that nobody was interested in having a church come m. Andrews: A long term user. I don't like singling out churches. Lash: No, okay but some, in a non athletic use to be blocked for a long term in the gym. 34 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Berg: At the expense or detriment of somebody who wants to use the rec center for recreation. Manders: Especially when it's free. Lash: Right. I mean I certainly, and an easy way to get around it I think was Ron's suggestion is just block open gym. Roeser: Why not just have Sunday as open gym and then we wouldn't run into this. Say well if someone calls, it's open gym on Sunday. Lemme: The city can absolutely do that. In fact that was the intention... What about 8:00 to 9:45? Roeser: That, yeah. Lash: If they want to rent it, I don't have a problem with that. Roeser: But if our opening time is 10:00 in the morning on Sundays, because that's what you're going to do right? The way it looks. And then from 10:00 until whatever it's open gym for anybody that wants to come in there and play pick-up basketball or volleyball or whatever. Andrews: I personally, I think we're making a mistake here by singling in on a certain day or a certain group because there will be some other group that will come along with a need like this that we've got to think about and I think we just make a simple, straight forward policy. My preference would be a 4 month block with, you could re-apply no sooner than 30 days prior to expiration to the end of your 4 month block. Roeser: Are we talking about the same thing or did I lose something here? Andrews: No, that's what we've been talking about. You know it might be a Sunday morning church service but it could be a Thursday night something or else too. I mean we need to have a rule that's simple and apply it equally to all. I mean I don't think you make rules specifically aimed at one group to deny uses. Lemme: So it's just saying if the Girl Scouts want to block out a rental of the conference room, they can do it for 4 months at a time from 6:00 until 7:00, every Tuesday but then at the end, 30 days prior to the end of their time slot, they get to re-apply. No guarantee. 35 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Andrews: I don't know, I mean no matter what system you come up with, there's going to be, there's no right or wrong way to do it. Lemme: That's what I'm saying. Across the board. Andrews: Well I don't know how you can pick and choose. I don't know how you can pick and choose. Berg: That's how we get in trouble when we decide one has priority over the other. Andrews: I mean we have an existing prioritization system. If you have conflicting requests, then you go back to your priority schedule that says well, if it's a City of Chanhassen Park and Rec use, and we've got another application from a non-resident youth sports association. Okay, we're going to take the city of Chanhassen first. That's how you're going to have to do it and if it doesn't work, it will have to come back to us and then we'll fix it but I just get really afraid whenever we try to single out a group and say you're a group we really would like to not see use our facility. I don't think we should do that. I mean I think we've got to give everybody the rules and say if you can play by the rules, fine. Meger: I'm comfortable setting that rule as long as we're going to have a chance to look at . the frequency of open gym. That will be one of the things that you will bring to us. Andrews: Sure. Well that's part of the programming duties. And I agree with Dave on that. I think we should be very liberal on programming open space. Open times. Lemme: We plan on that. Meger: And that's just one of the things. I wasn't sure if that was something that you were going to bring or that wasn't considered a big item. Lemme: And I should mention, the exception to the rules is, Chanhassen Park and Recreation does not need to rent a facility 4 months in advance. If we want to book it for 2 years from now. .. Andrews: Absolutely. Lash: I want to go back. I just had a thought about this and I think with the community room, the ones where we get a fee, I don't have as much of a problem with allowing term booking. Say it was a card club and they're going to meet once a month for, and they want to book it for 4 months whatever and they're willing to pay the fee, as long as they fit within 36 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 the priority list here and no one else above them. I don't have a problem with that. I think where I have the problem is with the gym because it's free and I don't want people homing in on the gym and using it for non-athletic type things because they can get it for free on a long, ongoing basis. Lemme: You want it to be real...good pads on open gym times and make sure that that's being used from open to close for these sports associations. For youth recreation. Lash: I'm thinking okay, and I'm trying not to specifically be pointed at one group but the church group, or say it's some other group, I don't care what group it is. What if they came to us and said, well we want the gym every Saturday night from 7:00 to 10:00 for 4 months. Andrews: No way. Lash: I'm not going to be open to that unless it's a. Andrews: An active use. Lash: Yeah, an active use type thing. Andrews: That's going to be your job Dawn. To direct those people to the proper facility. I mean I agree with Jan 100%. I don't want a book reading, or poetry club taking the gym. And I think that's common sense. Lash: And I guess that will end up being the problem of the scheduler to determine which facility is the most appropriate for the use. And if it's someone who could play cards just as well in the community room but they don't want to pay the fee, that's going to be up to you to say well the gym, the priority for the gym is active use and maybe that's something that we need to say in our. Andrews: Well I think it should say right in the rental agreement the intent of this facility is for active use. Berg: That's a good point. Meger: I'll just add on to what Jan had said a little bit. I kind of go a little bit of the opposite of what she just said in regards to more concern over the gym versus the community room. I think we need to have the same blocking for both because I'd hate to see somebody say every Saturday from 1:00 until 2:00 for the next 2 years I'm going to use the community room when that may be a time when other residents, that's the only time they can get in there 37 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . and somebody already has it blocked out for a year or two so I would say to remain consistent with both. Lash: I agree with that. Manders: I agree with that. Lash: And one other point that I thought that we discussed, as far as the fees, and boy I sure sound like I'm a super Scout supporter here but remember when we got into that discussion. We said if the Scouts or some of those non-profit type organizations needed to use one of these rooms on an ongoing basis for a meeting, that the fee would be very nominal, like 75% less. I recall that amount being thrown out. And when I looked at this, I don't see that reflected on here. Lemme: I did figure...when we went through that and giving the leeway on percentages and when I went to 75% of that for a civic group, of $10.00 is $2.50 an hour. It just seems so minimal and then to put that to the same use for a church or non-profit, then again you're excluding certain groups. You're saying civic groups are $2.50 but if you're a church but you're also non-profit or you're a rotary club, I mean they're paying to use other facilities for meetings and their group...category as non-profit so I felt it was minimal enough to warrant, as far as I know, the old Village Hall is still going to be available for free for Scout groups. Potentially the senior center will be another location, although Todd Gerhardt, we should talk to him... Are we going to need to do a minimal fee to rent out the senior center, which is a very nice facility down there. Because otherwise everybody will be flock to the senior center and the senior center...go what? That's something we're going to need to look at but I attempted what I felt was minimal enough but not... . Lash: But they'd still be able to use the schools. The school facilities wouldn't they? I mean that's what we used to do at Chan. We just used the little gym or we used the library, the classroom or whatever and there was no. Lemme: There is a heavy demand on the city... Huffman: They're getting tossed out of those places? Lemme: Yeah. They're not able to use them as much. I don't know if it's...increase in troops or what but we get calls all the time. All the time. Huffman: It's legal based. They're getting thrown out of places because it's a public facility and by law the thing's... 38 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Lemme: And the schools are using their buildings for more and more things. So the civic groups are getting... Andrews: My guess is we'll probably have a few groups approach us on a hardship basis I imagine too. Huffman: See I go back to your argument too with the Scouts. The Scouts do need a regular meeting time. Should we look at them and say, you can only meet here once a week or whatever it was, once every 2 weeks and then you've got to renew it at 4 months. That's foolishness. Lash: Well, I don't have that much of a problem with that. It will be up to the leader to keep her, his or her act together and renew but I look at, even though this is a nominal fee, $5.00. We usually would meet for more than an hour to start with. We'd usually meet for an hour and a half. If it was just, that's $20.00 a month. We just didn't have $20.00 a month to spend for a place to meet. We just didn't. You know where our dues for each kid was like $10.00 a year. We just didn't have that kind of money. Lemme: Well they can meet for free...at the old Village Hall. Lash: But if the kids are going to school at Bluff Creek, they are not going to go right after school to the Village Hall. There's not going to be any way for them to get there. Meger: I guess I kind of wanted to back this up and make a motion on our block of time because I think we already approved the fees so I wanted to make a motion that we make reservations. Allow them to meet in blocks of 4 months and that the earliest they could apply for another block would be 30 days from the end of their current 4 month block and that would be for both the gymnasium and the community rooms. Andrews: I'll second that. Any more discussion? Meger moved, Andn~ws seconded that the Pmx and Recreation Commission accept the staffs l"ecommendation that l"eselvations will be taken for both the gymnasium and the community meeting moms and confel"ence moms on a fil'St come, fil'St selve basis. Block scheduling (i.e. evelY Tuesday from 3:00 to 5:00 p.m.) will be allowed to meet in blocks of 4 months and that the emtiest they could apply for another block would be 30 days fmm the end of their cun"ent 4 month block and that would be for both the gymnasium and the community moms. All voted in favor and the motion cmlied unanimously. 39 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Andrews: Again I think that we can't deal with every eventuality here with a pre-printed, pre- planned scheme. I'm sure some groups are going to come back to us. Scouts will probably be one of them that may come back and say, it's a hardship. I also don't think it would be totally out of line for the city in their discussions of planning of facilities to consider the fact that maybe that's a quote, unquote, City of Chanhassen programmable item. That the city would want to provide a place for something like that to happen on a regular basis. I think that's again a rule of reason. There are lots of facilities that are available to meet at and I know my wife, she handles what, a Brownie Troop or whatever they are. Those little 5th graders or whatever. Those people can meet in houses. I don't think we have to provide a million facility for that. Now as far as like a troop, what's that a big group? What do you call that? Pack meeting or troop meeting or whatever it is, that's different. Nobody wants 50 kids at their house. But those meetings are what, once a month. Huffman: Weekly. Andrews: Pack meetings are weekly? (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Lash: ...something that just popped into my head. I'd be open if they would want to do a proposal that they do some type of community service for the building. Where they came and did a clean-up or say they planted flowers or they did, washed windows or they did something. . Andrews: I would agree with that too. Lash: That we could work out a contract that would be a trade-off for them too. Andrews: Or they could do fund raisers too. Wash cars. Let them hook up the hoses and they can wash cars you know. It's not that hard. Huffman: Dawn you should also be congratulated. This is very, a lot of input. You took a lot of weird information. Collate it and serious, this is, I had no clue this is what we talked about. This is phenomenal. You did a really neat job. You should really be commended. Andrews: Thank you, yes. It's very helpful. Lemme: And as I said, I won't be...! think we've made recommendations on all the topics. I want to thank you for your input and your time. 40 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Andrews: Alright, thank you. B. FIRST QUARTER 1995. PARK AND TRAIL REVENUE REPORT. Andrews: Is there anything you want to add to this? Looks good so. Look for further updates on that. C. APPOINTMENT OF lWO COMMISSIONERS TO THE PARKLAND ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT. TRAIL CONSTRUCTION AND OPEN SPACE PRESERV A nON TASK FORCE. Andrews: I guess the first question I have to ask commission members here, who hasn't served on a task force of some sort yet? Anybody that's missed. We have one right here. Huffman: I won't be here. Oh that's right, I take that back. Andrews: You've got Bluff Creek. Does anybody have any idea how many times this group's going to meet on a monthly basis or is it still totally up in the air? . Lemme: ...meet twice monthly until that voting date... Huffman: I will stand proudly and say, I am a coward. I do not have enough time to do it. Andrews: I don't think any body's saying they have time but I think it's a matter of both, it's something that has to be done. Berg: I suffered through Community Ed. I can't take this one too. Roeser: I'm suffering with the Chan, what is it, the Centennial Commission. Manders: Were there any volunteers? Andrews: I'm thinking. I'm afraid to do it. Huffman: Would you just like to push that back to the end of this thing and talk about it at the end and keep going? Andrews: Okay, let's do that. Let's push this to the end of the meeting. Let's get through all the other reports and then come back to it. . 41 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . D. DIRECTOR'S REPORT. Andrews: Any summarization? Lemme: I believe they narrowed it down for interviews. I think... Ruegemer: Interviews will start next Tuesday and Thursday for those two positions. Andrews: One point of note here about the playground legislation. I thought that was really good news there. Lash: I don't get it. What's different about what it is now? Manders: Yeah, what's the deal? Andrews: I think what they're saying here is that anything over 25 is going to be low bidder only. You had to take it regardless if it met, if you thought that you had some. Ruegemer: I think there's, what this has...I don't get the whole deal either here but that there's some, that the city would have some input maybe in the design versus... . Lash: I thought we already did that. We didn't already do that? Lemme: I think we opened it up that we'd give them just a basic criteria to include slides, climbing apparatus, those kinds of things but we're not into specifics currently but now we are going to be able to do... Lash: Only if it's over $25,000.00. Andrews: Well we can below anyway before. I think what this does is it gives us more flexibility to make choices. Lemme: Yeah... Andrews: What I understood it to mean is that we could make a choice based on the, you know kind of like that deal. Which one do we like better rather than just who was cheapest. Lemme: Just lowest bid. 42 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Huffman: If Mr. Workman is this good, and I know he is, maybe we could get him to move on that education bill. Andrews: Another meeting. Huffman: This is cute but there's other things to be done. Andrews: Any other items anybody wanted to make? Roeser: Where's the Frontier Building? Chris Polster, President of the Chanhassen, is that behind? ...oh, okay fine. Hooked on Classics. Ruegemer: The old Instant Webb building... Roeser: Yeah, back of the Dinner Theater. Lash: Was there supposed to be another page to this? It kind of stopped. Andrews: Yeah, I wondered the same thing. Manders: Was there any comments on the joint meeting? I missed it. Andrews: I wasn't there either. Lash: They seemed to be, I thought supportive of the direction that we were taking. They liked the priority list. We had this presentation by, what was her name, Lisa...from the, what was it called, TPO. Andrews: Open space group of some sort. Lash: TPO. Yeah, Trust for Public Lane. There was quite a lengthy discussion I think on the merits of... It looks like Todd is going to be getting more information for us. That will probably help us sort through that. Berg: I had a sense they were at least open to this youth building or something too. That they had heard more about it than we had. They seemed fairly open to...investigating that. Which I see Mr. Polster is behind a little bit. Lash: Well that's a different location. Weren't we talking about, I thought what we had heard about was the... 43 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Ruegemer: Chris Polster is in the old Frontier building, back there where the dance studio was. Lash: It would be nice if they could come together instead of having two separate entities or. Ruegemer: I don't think that that would happen... Andrews: That's good. Competition will bring out the best. Lash: What are we waiting on Jerry for? Oh, I wasn't quite sure. Andrews: How long have you been married? Ruegemer: 5 years in June. Andrews: You've been practicing enough. Let's get going here. Alright. Any other comments on the Director's Report? If not, let's move on to a very important item, item 5(e). E. INTRODUCTION OF SUMMER INTERN. Lemme: Okay, thank you. As you may have noticed, there's a new...Erik Donley. He is our new Recreation Department's intern and his first day was...and he'll be with us through, until he has to go back to school at the University of Wisconsin in the fall...We'll keep him as long as we can. We have a list a mile long of activities... . Andrews: Welcome Erik. It's a nice city here. I think there's a lot of things going on. Donley: ...I'm looking forward to really an education based on, Dawn and Jerry both... Ruegemer: You couldn't ask for a better staff to work with. Lash: Let's make sure that we schedule some real hot items on the agenda in the next couple months so he can find out what it's really like. Andrews: Well welcome Erik. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: Andrews: Any commission member presentations? 44 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Roeser: Anybody go on that bike ride? With the Hennepin County thing. 45 miles. It's July, June 3rd. It's next Saturday. A week from Saturday. I stood by Miller Park yesterday and just let the tears flow. Have you seen that thing? Huffman: Isn't it pretty? Roeser: Oh, it's so nice. I hate to be jealous but that's a beautiful complex. Huffman: When are they completing the asphalt path between Rice Marsh Lake and the Eden Prairie paths so I can actually ride my bike and not fall into one of those 14 foot ruts? Ruegemer: The narrow road... Huffman: Right. Ruegemer: That I don't know...we can find out for you. Huffman: It's not that important. Roeser: You could actually pick up a little further up off the swamp there. You don't have to go through that swamp there. Huffman: I don't? Roeser: No you don't... Andrews: Any other comments on the administrative packet? Lash: I was wondering if there's been any response to the memo to Robert Generous, is that how you say it? Regarding the, that Rottlund development. Ruegemer: Oh, the frontage on the lake? I'm not sure where that's at right now. Lemme: We've had some neighbors in asking about that. Lash: What do they want, do you know? Lemme: They really just wanted to know what the plan was. If there was going to be public access. Was there going to be a boat launch there... 45 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lash: So did they seem to be supportive of having access or opposed to having access? Lemme: I think they were supportive of passive use. Not of any access. Ruegemer: They were opposed as to any type of, they didn't want a regular DNR launch or something down there. I think they favored like a Greenwood Shores type of thing. Roeser: They're worried about a Carver Beach beach. Huffman: There's already a launch though over on the far side so you can go around on the back side of the lake and get in. It's not an issue of getting on or not... Roeser: I was going to ask one other thing. When they're developing this Frontier Building area with the movie theater and stuff like that. Is that cut and dry or are they still talking? Ruegemer: The entertainment complex? Roeser: Yeah. Ruegemer: No, I think...a 6 screen movie theater. . Roeser: It seems to me that somewhere along the line, we still in this city have no place to do a theater production. We have no place in this town to do a concert. We have no place for anyone to sit down and watch kids perform. Adults perform. I'm wondering why that couldn't be included in that complex, somehow. Even making one of the movie theaters, you know putting a movie theater in, you can hang some lights and that you can run a theater production. They should consider that. Lash: You know they have done some at the Dinner Theater Ron. Roeser: Dinner Theater you can do on Monday night when they're dark. That's the only time you can get in there. Lash: Oh. I know one of the elementary schools put on a little production there this year and they were very. Roeser: But you can only do it on Monday nights. Tuesdays. Monday and Tuesdays they're dark. Lemme: This is all private. 46 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 Roeser: Yeah, the city has nothing to do with that. Lash: So is it the guy from Waconia? Ruegemer: I don't know. I think Brad, Brad Johnson is the one who's doing the... Huffman: Is he going to bring in 6 crummy little movie theaters like little tiny box, crummy, dinky things? Lash: Sure. Ruegemer: Well they're talking about Pauly's moving over there and being more of a sports type of a bar...present location. Lash: At one time I had heard that the owner or whatever of the Waconia theater was the one who was interested and that it would be similar to his operation there, which I think would be great. Roeser: It's just something that I think should be considered, I don't know. Huffman: I'd give up the golf course. Seriously, I'd give up the golf course. I would say dump that referendum immediately and put in for a theater. I would go for that. I really do. Roeser: ...integrate it into the development of that Frontier building. But that's. Andrews: Is HRA behind that or is that Council? Ruegemer: ...I don't know. Andrews: Any other comments on the Administrative Packet? If not, that takes us back to the item 5(c), which is the two commission volunteers for the task force. Lash: A lot of lap looking going on here. Andrews: I'll volunteer. I don't know when or how I'm going to do it but I guess I feel it's important and I don't want to see it not be done. Is there another volunteer? Berg: I'm looking at Jan. 47 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 22, 1995 . Lash: You know, everybody was saying what they were struggling with. I'm just struggling. I don't even want to start the list because it will sound like I'm whining but I'm taking 4 classes this summer. I'm student teaching. I'm working part time. I just can't, this is not a good year. Summers are usually a little bit better but if I was going to do it, I'd want to have my whole heart into it and I just know that I wouldn't be able to do that this summer. Andrews: Well I think we're all busy. Lash: I know. Meger: Do we have to know tonight? Andrews: Jane, if you really feel strongly. Ruegemer: We can have 3 volunteers. Meger: Well as an alternate. My concern is that I'm up for a new job which will require quite a bit of travel and if I do get it, I will not be available so that was my big concern and I don't know yet. Andrews: Okay, fair enough. I guess we've got Jim and Jim with. . Lash: Maybe we should just make everyone on the task force. It'd be an easy way to choose. Their name would have to be Jim. Andl~ws moved, Huffman seconded to adjoum the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion canied. The meeting was adjoumed. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 48 . J- Z <t U :J a.. a.. <( . ~ ~ W t- - (/) . CITY OF CHANHASSEN PRC DATE: June 27, 1995 PC DATE: CC DATE: HOFFMAN:k # 3 STAFF REPORT PROPOSAL: LOCATION: APPLICANT: PRESENT ZONING: ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: Rezoning of 20.25 acres from A2, Agricultural Estate to RSF, Residential Single Family and Preliminary Plat to Subdivide 20.25 Acres into 18 Single Family Lots and 1 Outlot. 7210 Galpin Boulevard, Forest Meadow JMS Companies Jeff Schoenwetter 80 West 78th Street, Suite 133 Chanhassen, MN 55317 A2, Agricultural Estate N - PUD-R (Planned Unit Development-Residential) S - A2 E - Galpin Boulevard W - PUD-R (Planned Unit Development-Residential) COMPREHENSIVE PARK PLAN: This site is located in a park deficient area (see background) COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN: Galpin Boulevard is identified as a trail route in the city's comprehensive plan. The Galpin Boulevard trail will be constructed in the future; independent of this develo ment. Forest Meadows Preliminary Plat June 23, 1995 Page 2 . BACKGROUND As the commission is aware, a portion of the Stockdale property has been identified as a potential parkland acquisition site for nearly two years. This identification followed the city's approval of two "private" parks in Lundgren Brothers' developments to the north (The Woods at Longacres and The Meadows at Longacres). A purchase arrangement was close to being consummated with Mr. Stockdale in 1994. This "deal" would have seen the park located in the same location with Lundgren Brothers developing the remaining property. Time passed and Jeff Schoenwetter of JMS Companies has now optioned the entire parcel from Mr. Stockdale. JMS Companies is amenable to continuing in the footsteps of past negotiations. You will notice that the proposed Forest Meadows plat resembles closely plans of the past. Mr. Schoenwetter is eager to move forward with his plat and would like to work with the commission. Negotiations with Mr. Schoenwetter have resulted in the following proposal for the Park & Recreation Commission's consideration: 1. The park be platted as an outlot in the general configuration shown on the proposed plat. 2. The city shall compensate JMS Companies $24,000 per acre for the outlot at the time of sale. . (The same compensation offered to Mr. Stockdale.) 3. JMS Companies shall mass and finish grade the outlot per the city's plan at no cost to the city. 4. All park and trail fees shall be waived for Forest Meadow. (These fees total $20,400 at current rates.) 5. JMS Companies shall administer all work relating to the construction of the park's trail loop, trail connection to Fawn Hill Road, entry road and parking lot. The city shall pay unit prices for the materials consumed in this construction. JMS Companies shall assume all "soft" costs associated with this work. RECOMMEND A TION It is recommended that the Park & Recreation Commission recommend the City Council approve the proposed Forest Meadow plat with the following conditions of approval: 1. The park be platted as an outlot in the general configuration shown on the proposed plat. 2. The city shall compensate JMS Companies $24,000 per acre for the outlot at the time of sale. (The same compensation offered to Mr. Stockdale.) . . . . Forest Meadows Preliminary Plat June 23, 1995 Page 3 3. JMS Companies shall mass and finish grade the outlot per the city's plan at no cost to the city. 4. All park and trail fees shall be waived for Forest Meadow. (These fees total $20,400 at current rates.) 5. JMS Companies shall administer all work relating to the construction of the park's trail loop, trail connection to Fawn Hill Road, entry road and parking lot. The city shall pay unit prices for the materials consumed in this construction. JMS Companies shall assume all "soft" costs associated with this work. JMS Companies shall secure a minimum of three competitive bids for this work. These bids shall be submitted to the city for review prior to selection of a contractor. In addition, the proposed trail easement located between lots 14 and 15 shall be 20 feet in width and the outlot area shall be reconfigured to include no less than 5 acres of property. A TT A CHMENTS 1. 2. Proposed Forest Meadows Plat. Numerous documents related to past acquisition efforts. c: Don Ashworth, City Manager Pam Snell, Finance Director Sharmin AI-Jaff, Planner I 1 'EGIONAL LLkJ .~~~ ~ , ,// \ - I\.. - - DRIVE PARK Cf> - ........- . @ @ f\ U . ~ ~ON \ ) STREET AY ~.//-4'4/3 4 . C ITV OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director #' DATE: September 20, 1994 SUBJ: Proposed Stockdale Land Acquisition As commission members will recall e concept plan fo is proposed park was developed by Hoisington-Koegler Group dep' ng a neighborhood p of approximately 6.4 acres in size. A variety of formalities erning any transfer of I s were discussed at this meeting, but the issue of greatest co to the commission was th oposed reduction in size of the park. As can be see ifications are proposed--a tr' ular piece of land in the northwest corner 0 into the residential plat and a smaller triangul dale's homestead. The hen the necessary investments to Ified due to the size/configuration of the property.it.y0$tCo ommends neighborhood parks be 10 to 25 acres in size ss an 6 acres in size, this park would be smaller than Curry Farms neighborhood park resent, the city maintains 7 neighborhood parks smaller than Curry Farms and 11 neigh ood parks larger than its 6 acres. A second issue of concern to the commission is Lundgren Brothers' inquiry into locating a berm that they would like to construct between the two properties, wholly or partially, on city park property. quisition has been on "simmer." wards consummating a purchase at day, Mr. Stockdale and Mr. Scott attorney) and me to discuss this onstruction was also party to this hase a portion of Mr. Stockdale's . For some time now, the proposed Stockdale la However, another step forward was recently t agreement this past Wednesday, September 1 Miller (his attorney) met with Roger Knutso transaction. Mr. Terry Forbord of Lundgre meeting as Lundgren Brothers is also anti property. . Park and Recreation Commission September 20, 1994 Page 2 ACTION REQUESTED At approximately 6.4 acres, the city is already compromising its standard for neighborhood park size. Is the commission concerned with a further reduction? If so, what action do you advocate? Secondly, what direction would you like to take in regard to the inquiry from Lundgren Brothers to wholly or partially locate a berm between the two properties on city parkland? (See map for approximate location.) pc: Dave Stockdale and Anga McBride, 7210 Galpin Boulevard, Chanhassen, MN 55317 Terry Forbord, Lundgren Brothers Construction Roger Knutson, City Attorney Scott Miller, Miller and Kellermeier, 3908 IDS Center, 80 South 8th St., Mpls. 55402 . . . -' --- - .... ..-... ... - ""'/~. -,...... DEI mm 0:>>"1 dno.lO ntJaox g01'ut-,Oa t6/tt~t -= --- 'S'.(6 ~-.. lMI....: NV'ld .Ld'3:>NO:> NW 'U...SIlU8110 10 ,(110 )lI::IVd OI::lV^31nOa Nld1V~ $ ~ . ~~--. ,..~...~,..::.-.~-~.~ .~. l · 0ge_ . / _ mu_/ . $ .~ ) . ~ o ff} - I- t/3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 25, 1994 just, I think if they want one that's fine and we can probably scrounge up the money to do it but I'd want to look at the plan before I'd just plunk it in. Andrews: Would this flat area that you mentioned, Todd would that be as far as security for, not for small tots but as far as younger kids, would it be visible and safe so the "riff rafr' couldn't snatch any kids there or bother any kids? Hoffman: If you've ever been to the park, you could see there's... Andrews: Okay. here? Does this need a motion or is this enough direction for you to work with _ ~ /'! /.J!f /..11 I' . r:/..:-I!. Hoffman: Enough direction. ~.'"'-----... ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENT A TI Hoffman: I keep putting that on the agenda and it keeps rmging Dave out. Not my intentions but obviously Dave would like to keep up to date as well on what the city's thoughts...somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 acres of property...So that's about all I have. Letter of December 13th was included in your packet. Letter to Jim Walston. City Attorney's office from Mr. Stockdale. It references a Mr. Scott Miller who represents Mr. Stockdale. I spoke with Scott Miller this past week and really in our conversation both parties stand prepared to make final arrangements or at least discuss final arrangements about the property that should potentially be occurring over the next couple of weeks. I spoke to Jim Walston today. He is redrafting the original purchase agreement presented by the City to address these issues and then we'll take it from there. Present those back to Mr. Miller and Mr. Stockdale. We can go over those with the commission and then Dave, you would like to ask some questions as well. The sale of the property must be in conjunction with the sale of the development of the...That probably land acquisition there would take place through an agreement between Mr. Stockdale and Lundgren Bros Development. I put calls into Terry Forbord this week and when I get an updated feeling from their position. I'm not sure, have they talked directly with you? David Stockdale: We traded phone calls today. That's where we got. Hoffman: So every time the phone calls get updated, then the phone calls...take place. As a part of the Johnson/Dolejsiffurner and Song plat, as you recall. The updated or new addition to those site plans, those plats in our door and not to anyone's surprise they included a ghost plat of how that back part of the Stockdale property could be developed into houses as they've indicated that before...How the city can make that contingent upon our approval, we 26 . . . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 25, 1994 still haven't totally worked that out. We could make our purchase agreement contingent upon...it's a very difficult line to cross. We cannot represent Mr. Stockdale to Lundgren. We cannot represent Lundgren's position to Mr. Stockdale. We have to be in communication but we can't be... Lash: So we're just basically waiting for that deal to come through before this deal can go through? Hoffman: Well, yeah we want to. Andrews: It sounds like it needs to be simultaneous. A three party arrangement. Hoffman: Could be. Or else at least we could sign our purchase agreement contingent upon...happens in the next two weeks or month. The...present terms obviously are we presented our position to Mr. Stockdale of $24,000.00 per acre and that's what the city has offered to pay and we have not received a counter offer. Identification of said property, specifically the north and west boundary alignments. As I related to Mr. Miller, the north boundary is adjacent to Mr. Stockdale's home and we don't have a problem moving that line one way or the other. Dave and I have talked about that. There's some buffering there. The property which would be park includes some trees which we would have in the plan to donate and to remove so those trees would be in this buffer as well. The west line needs to fluctuate somewhat because the city wants to acquire approximately 6.2 acres but at the same time we didn't want to push that line so far west that it infringes on what could be developed. It just so happens that there is a fairly nice break in there. Drainageway if you will at the bottom of the hill which would be back yards of homes. It comes down and really hits at the bottom of the hill where the park would be coming in at that point. Lash: Did you say we're getting 6.2 acres? Is that what the agreement is for? ... And then where are the other acres coming? Hoffman: The other acres would be the main portion of Mr. Stockdale's property which would be sold to a separate party. So the park is 6.2 acres. It originally started at about 5 but then when...identified the location for a well house or pump, so we want to add about another acre so we could buffer that. Modification of environmental warranties. The environmental warranties included...were very stringent. Mr. Walston has identified at least the representative meeting less than those warranties. It's been Mr. Miller's position that they would like to state that they are not aware of any environmental problems or did not create environmental problems on that property and that seems acceptable to our attorneys. Payment of pending and levied assessments. Again, this would be a negotiable item. Certainly if we acquire property which has some pending assessments on it, we could assume those...purchase 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 25, 1994 . agreement you could say those are the liability of the seller. Temporary and permanent ingress and egress. Dave, that was in regard to? Dave Stockdale: It's been a while. I'm trying to refresh my memory on that too. Hoffman: Ingress and egress is not a problem so usually that's in regard to construction. We did talk about some easements for utility lines. Dave would hook his household up to city sewer and water which is...has a direct correlation to item number 4. Pending and levied assessments. Our agreement was that we would run the water line through our property to his property line and he would hook up from there...So hopefully Mr. Walston and Mr. Miller are standing....facilitate this thing and...Dave, did you have anything to say? Dave Stockdale: My name's Dave Stockdale, Galpin Boulevard. It's been kind of a long time since we've had conversation and I think probably the biggest reason is the attorneys. Just the purchase agreement's...and some of the things that I, from a land person's point of view looked at...specifically the environmental warranties was probably the most complex part of this dance between dealing with the city and dealing with Lundgren Bros and trying to bring together...and that's a real complex issue. It's a very balancing act. Obviously if I sold out right to the city and I had a purchase agreement with Lundgren Bros that didn't come to fruition, I'd have...so it's real critical that...so you guys can allocate where your park is going to be. And that's...new experience for me. It's not as a straight forward process but we're still looking. . Andrews: Mr. Stockdale, I'd want to again thank you for your effort here and cooperation. This is something that I've not seen from anybody else as a private citizen in our city for many, many years. Dave Stockdale: It works good at a certain level but a lot of it has to do with what happens with the back half. Andrews: Sure, I understand that and I understand it's a complex problem that you're going to a lot of effort. And it benefits the city and I'm not an elected city, or an official city official so to speak but as a citizen I certainly appreciate what you're doing very much. Dave Stockdale: We'll see if it works out. Andrews: I hope it does. It may not but I hope it does. Dave Stockdale: ...real straight forward. Anyone on the commission want to buy it all? 28 . . C ITV OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission 111 FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director DATE: December 9, 1993 SUBJ: Proposed Real Estate Purchase Agreement; David Stockdale and Anga McBryde- Stockdale, 7210 Galpin Boulevard, Excelsior, MN 55331 . As the Commission is aware, a real estate 1993, has been delivered to the Stockdales. indicated that they are in the process of Stockdale went on to state that upon their agreement proposal dated November 10, with Mr. Stockdale this past week, he the proposal with their attorney. Mr. he would contact me. pc: Mayor and City Council Don Ashworth, City Manager Jim Walston, Campbell, David and Anga Excelsior, MN 55331 . ~~ --- C ITV OF CHANHASSEN Cf?L --- . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission 4' FROM: Todd Hoffman, Recreation and Park Director DATE: September 23, 1993 SUBJ: Stockdale Property Update The City Council authorized the city to proceed)~ith the purchase of parkland from David and Anga Stockdale on Monday, September 13, 19Q3.The City Attorney has prepared a purchase agreement and has been in contact with the StQckd~Je' s. I will keep the commission informed as negotiations proceed. Please be aware thatthe city's Engineering Department has identified this site as a good location for a future city well antI has requested that we plan for such an . additional use. The well will require a str!aII buildirig~ To accommodate this, the size of the parcel to be acquired will be increased to approximately six acres. . . . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN :A v' - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager ?f FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director DATE: September 8, 1993 SUBJ: Authorization to Proceed with Parkland Purchase, 5+ Acres; David and Anga Stockdale Property, Galpin Boul~yard The presentation of this item is born from the .review of the Song property (Lundgren Brothers Construction) preliminary plat by the Park< and Recreation Commission. The commission reviewed Lundgren Brothers' proposal for this property on two separate occasions--July 27 and August 24, 1993 (see attached reports and xninutes of July 27 --the August 24 minutes are not yet available). As you are aware, this partic;Ular review wa~especially arduous for the department. The Park and Recreation Commission is sincerely concerIled about the lack of public park space within the proposed development. A.sa part of a previous plat review (Johnson/Dolejsi/furner), which is a "sister" development tp<the Song property, the. commission did recommend that a private or association park b~<~pproved. Lundgren Brothe!~ Construction has expressed their willingness to pay park feesin addition to constructing theirPfivate park facilities for both sites. An alternative to as.... u' j1igpublic lands as a part of the develppment of the Song property is to buy other property ViciIiitytisiIigparkfeeievetiue<getierated from both the Song and J ohnson/Dolejs' . devel0ptnentS..l?arkf€;€;sfQfth~~.~!t~~.....~~~<.~f~~~~~ 140,000. In exploring this op commission asked for a report describing the prop~J.'tY in the area be prepared (see attachments; David and Anga Stockdale own approximatel~19~cres of land immediately south of the Songs. At the July 27 Park and Recreation Commissign.peeting, Mr. Stockdale told the commissioners that he had some reservations over selling a pOition of their property for park purposes. In the following weeks, however, the Stockdales reconsidered their position and decided to contact the city about the potential acquisition of a portion of their property for a park. This information was presented to the commission on August 24, 1993, the second time they reviewed the Song application (see attachments). Mr. Don Ashworth September 8, 1993 Page 2 . Upon conclusion of the discussion on August 24, the following action was taken: Lash moved, Berg seconded to recommend that the preliminary plat to subdivide 112 acres from Rural Residential to Planned Unit Development into 115 single family lots (Song property) be approved by the Park and Recreation Commission contingent upon the following conditions of approval being met: Parks 1. The private/association park be approved only if the additional amenity of an open field with a minimum size of 250 square feet with a maximum 4% slope is added to the park layout. This open field is to be in addition to and not in lieu of existing proposed amenities. Furthermore, if the private/association park is ever abandoned, it shall be transferred to the city for public park purposes. 2. Full park fees shall be paid at the rate in force upon building permit application. Trails . 1. A 20 ft. trail easement shall be granted along the entire easterly property line. Furthermore, that this easement shall be included in the grading plan for the project with a suitable trail bed being prepared. This trail bed may meander within the easement alignment at the discretion of the applicant, but the eventual alignment must be conducive to future trail construction and is subject to approval as a part of the grading plan review. Planting of trees shall be restricted to areas west of the trail bench. 2. The applicant shall dedicate lands to accommodate trail construction along the southern boundary of the JohnsonIDolejsiffurner preliminary plat as depicted on Attachment #4. The applicant shall map and construct a trail paralleling this wetland. This construction is to be completed per city specifications and at the time of adjoining street construction. Final alignment of this trail shall be staked by the developer and approved by the Park and Recreation Director and City Engineer. In recognition for the dedication of this trail corridor, and the construction of said trail, it is recommended that the applicant receive full trail fee credit at the time of building permit application for both the Song property and JohnsonIDolejsiffurner applications. [Note: This condition will require amendments to the conditions of approval associated with the preliminary plat for the JohnsonlDolejsiffurner properties.] Fees associated with the amendment of the PUD for the JohnsonIDolejsiffurner property are to be waived. . . . . Mr. Don Ashworth September 8, 1993 Page 3 This trail shall include a connection to the street plan as indicated between Lots 16 & 17, Block 2, or a similar suitable location in the near vicinity. This recommendation is contingent upon the city acquiring a portion of the Stockdale property for public park purposes within 45 days after August 24, 1993. This condition was applied with the applicant's consent. Additionally, Lundgren Brothers Construction is to grade this park site per city specifications if it is acquired. Upon authorization from the City Council, the City Attorney's office is prepared to initiate negotiations for the purchase of the 5+ acre Stockdale parcel located on Galpin Boulevard north of Highway 5 as depicted on the attached diagram. Mark Koegler of Hoisington-Koegler Group and I have personally inspected this property, finding it suitable and desirable for the construction of a neighborhood park. The remaining western portion of the Stockdale property may be acquired by Lundgren Brothers for inclusion in their proposed development to the north. pc: David and Anga Stockdale Lundgren Brothers Construction, Inc. Attachments 1. Staff report dated August 18, 1993 2. Response from Lundgren Brothers Construction dated August 24, 1993 3. Land ownership map 4. Stockdale property information and map 54. Minutes of July 27, 1993, Park and Recreation Commission meeting. LAKE > ~ I REGIONAL PARK - DRIVE ~D JJON AY t . C ITV OF CHANHASSEN 4, ------ 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director FROM: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor 1~ DATE: June 21, 1995 SUBJ: Lake Ann Park Batting Cage Operations The Chanhassen Athletic Association (CAA) has recently donated the new batting cage at Lake Ann to the city. The batting cage is not y~tfinished; however, the completion date will be soon. The structure is 42' x 70' and can be .~seq. as a single batting cage or divided into 3 separate cages, each containing a pitching mac!iine; . At the May 23 Park & Recreation Commission meetij:lg, there was discussion regarding who would be responsible for scheduling, maintaining and <supervision of the cages-the CAA or city. If the city is responsible for coordinfltion, I have a few suggestions: Hours of Operation: 5:30 - 8:3Qp.m. This shoulq. allow teams scheduled for early and later games an opportunity to use the cage. Security: The batting clige will be locked up usingf.;ity padlocks when not in use. Staffing: The batting cage will be open Monday through Friday from approximately May 1 to July 31 (13 weeks) for 3 hours per night (15 hours per week). A staff person e required to operate each pitching machine and would be paid at a rate of $7 pe cost for a season is calculated as follows: 15 hours/week x hours.~ $7. .:= $1,365 X3 machines = $4,095.00 Revenue: Revenue can be collected Other batting cage operations charge follows: cQyer expenses incurred at the batting cages. 5 for 20 pitches. The revenue is collected as . 15 rounds/hr. x 3 hr/night = 45 rounds 45 rounds/night x 5 nights = 225 per week 225 x 1.25 per round = 281.25 x 13 weeks = $3,656.25 Mr. Todd Hoffman June 21, 1995 Page 2 . The $3,656.25 is revenue for each cage and is very aggressive. These revenues are based on full capacity when the batting cages are open. Realistically the batting cages will not operate at full capacity. Depending on if the CAA is allocated free daily space, the city would be lucky to have 50-75 paid rounds per week. If this is the case, the revenue would be $815 to $1,250. Storage of Pitching Machines: The pitching machines are somewhat bulky and hard to move and should stay set up at all times. Some type of covers should be made or purchased to protect the machines from the elements. The electrical cords to power the machines should be placed in a weather proof storage container that may be placed outside the batting cage. Scheduling of Batting Cage: Since the equipment is city owned, the Park & Recreation Department would schedule the batting cage from either city hall or the new recreation center. First Option for Use: The CAA is expecting the first opportunity to use the batting cages. The CAA will be requesting the cages during the 5:30-8:30 p.m. time frame for their games. The city needs to decide whether to grant this request. RECOMMENDATION . Operation of the batting cage will not be a break even endeavor. The CAA purchased the batting cages for approximately $15,000 and donated them to the city as another way to create an opportunity for residents of Chanhassen. Since the batting cages will be owned by the City of Chanhassen, it is our responsibility to supervise their operation. I recommend the following: 1. That the city provide staff supervision of the batting cages at a rate of $7 per hour. 2. Hours of operation shall be 5:30 - 8:30 p.m., Monday through Friday and 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon on Saturdays between May 1 and July 31. I am concerned that the amount of use on Saturdays will not warrant the salary expended; and therefore, I recommend that we re-evaluate Saturday operation at the end of the season. 3. The fee be set at $1.25 for 20 balls. 4. That first option for use of two of the three batting cages be given to our local youth organizations, Le. CAA, Minnetonka Girls Softball, Chanhassen Girls Softball, etc., and that the fee be waived for youth athletics. This will keep one cage open for the general public. . . . . Mr. Todd Hoffman June 21, 1995 Page 3 Director's Comments: Staffing costs for the supervision of batting cages were not included in the department's 1995 budget. Any costs associated with the operation of the cages in 1995 will be paid from Fund 146 self-supporting programs. In this fund, all costs must be recouped through user fees. As such, those who use the facility will be required to pay the salaries of the attendant. If the commission desires to subsidize this expense, another program must be cut or additional funds must be requested of the City Council. SOv . CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 "(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffmann, Park and Recreation Director FROM: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor 1~ DATE: June 21, 1995 SUBJ: 1995 4th of July Celebration . This year's 4th of July Celebration will be Mo and Tuesday, July 3 and 4. The community picnic, trade fair, street dance, anq~o will be Monday evening at City Center Park. On Tuesday, Lake Ann Park will host such ei~nts as the Kids Fishing Festival and the Adult Fishing Derby, two (2) different musicshows,<{amily games, Treasure Hunt, the fireworks display, and many other events. The 4th of July Celebration has been adyertised in the Ghanhassen Villager, Chaska Herald, Excelsior/Shorewood Sun Sailor, and~he Victoria Gazett~; Display ads and inserts have been planned for every week leading uptQthe Celebration. Th~ 4th of July banners and signs were placed around town the weeK Of June 12. Schedule of events and posters were placed the week of June 19. Summer seasonal ~~~~~~~l~e..~t~~iz~~ii~coo:~in~ti~g...P?rti?tls of our largest community celebration. The majority of my time at this point is being dedicated toward the 4th of July Celebration to . . CITY OF CHAHHASSEH Sb 690 COULTER DRIVE. P,O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor 1JJ. FROM: DATE: June 22, 1995 SUBJ: Summer Discovery Playground This year's program began on June 12 and will participants registered and we are still taking r the program. through August 4. Currently we have 472 tions for any children wanting to get into . The fee was raised this year from $15 to $18and'this):las not seemed to be a problem for people. Although it has been a "hot one" llll'eady this year, the playground staff has done an excellent job planning activities and altering plans wheijthe heat necessitates a change. This year's staff is highly qualified with indiyiduals who are getting or have degrees in psychology, elementary education, and social wor A new program that I developed this year is the Playground Leader-in- Training Program (volunteer). This is for 12-15 year oIds who are too young to work as paid staff and too old for playground, therefore needing or wanting to do something. Response has been great and we have 6 leaders-' training who are under the supervision of one of our paid playground staff. Each volunt s at a playground/park site once a week along side of the staff and learns leadershi tivities, and helps with preparation. Currently we ar orking on an evaluation proce setting with each volunteer. P.S. The newest playground site offered th ear is at Pheasant Hill Park and 21 children are currently attending. R~~J;~atiotinepartment's most popular youth is running smoothly. Playground continues to be program. I am happy to report that the prog . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN Sf!.., - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor 'lJ~,-"j-- FROM: DATE: June 22, 1995 SUBJ: Tennis Program . It must be the year that many people decided t tennis! Our coordinator for both tennis lesson returned for her third year in a row. I believe below, but it's hard to say. eir children should learn how to play . unior tennis team, Sara Anderson, has s something to do with the numbers Our current 3 week tennis lessons have 57 youth participants and 10 adult participants. Two more sessions of youth lessons are yet to.occur and registration numbers are already at 60 students for those. Junior Tennis Team.Jlas blossomed as well this year with 31 players. New this year, I hired a tennis assistant to aid the sessions that have reached or exceeded their maximum. $20 for 3 weeks (6 classes) t9$22.50. Lessons are and City Center Park coyU;S. Junior Tennis Team holds City Center Park a 1 : with tennis team and lesson fee was raised this year from Lake Susan, North Lotus Lake and all home matches at Again, aside fro growth in the progr wave, I feel lessons are going extremely well happy to see . . C ITV OF CHANHASSEN & a., - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director FROM: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor DATE: June 21, 1995 SUBJ: Lifeguard Olympics, Lake Ann Beach John Raby, Aquatics Supervisor with Minnet the annual Lifeguard Olympics on Sunday, J Ann Beach. a Community Services would like to host 3 from 8:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon at Lake . The Lifeguard Olympics include the following ev ts: Rowing Obstacle Course Rescue Boat Obstacle Course Ring Buoy Toss Rescue Tube Relay Sweatshirt Relay Beach F1~gs Cross Chest Carry Relay Tug of War Lifeguards will be on duty a.tLake Ann during the compC(tition if the general public would like to swim. The Park & Recreation Commission has approved the Lifeguard Olympics the last two years and I om mend approval of the Olympics again for this year. . O~AA CO~ ~ J~G E ~ ~ -< ~ __ __ !fJ ~.. -- ~~ '.AlltON &. S'f..~ Third Annual Minnetonka Invitational Lifeguard Olympics SUNDAY, JULY 23,1995 8 A.M. - NOON LAKE ANN BEACH 1456 Arboretum Blvd. (HWY 5) Chanhassen, MN 55317 494 to Highway 5 West . Eligibility: all participants must have a current Red Cross lifeguard training certificate. Entry Fee: $15 per team. All registrations must be received by July 14. Sponsors: Minnetonka Commu- nity Education and Services, The City Awards: A traveling trophy will be of Chanhassen, and the Minneapolis presented to the first place team. Red Cross. EVENTS Rowing Obstacle Course A timed event testing speed and maneuverability. Rescue Board Obstacle Course A timed event testing speed and maneuverability. Ring Buoy Toss A scored event testing distance and accuracy. Rescue Tube Relay A timed event testing rescue tube usage as well as speed. Sweatshirt Relay A timed swimming relay using long sleeved sweatshirts. . Beach Flags A musical chair type elimination event in the sand requiring strength and strategy. Cross Chest Carry Relay A timed event testing speed and strength. Tug Of War An inwater tug of war testing strength and stamina ENTRY FORM Team Name Captain Mailing Address City/State/Zip Phone Entry deadline: July 14, 1995 Please make checks payable to: MCES Aquatics 261 School Ave. Excelsior, MN. 55331 Return this portion Team Members (MAXIMUM OF FOUR EVENTS PER TEAM MEMBER) . . CITY OF CHAHHASSEH fob ~ - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: All Employees M~r--- FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director DATE: June 20, 1995 SUBJ: Personnel News . Dawn Beitel has recently changed her name .thanks her new husband Clayt. Dawn will also begin part-time employment (generallYi'fuesdaythrough Friday) on Tuesday, June 20. In this transition, Dawn will be assuming the..tole of coor(iinator for the new Recreation Center. To accommodate this shift in responsibi~~~Y, Dawn willrRe leave her role as Senior Coordinator. Congratulations to Dawn on her recent marriage and change in employment. A quick note to let you know what is "going 0 Department. ith personnel in the Park & Recreation Jim Theis started employment with e Park & RecreatioIl.rMaintenance Division on Monday, June 19. Jim's new position is lleavy Equipment Operatol."?parks. Jim was formerly with the Street Division. Congratulatiohs. to Jim on his new appointment. I would like to introduce Bradley Morse. Brad was recently hired as a Light Equipment Operator-Parks. Mr. Morse will be teaming up with Charlie Eiler to maintain the city's -f:{%1{JtftD::.::i\,:-:<\:::}:.'::>::-)'::":::,-,:c<:c>':/<:::,"':,:::::::.}-..:>>:'::::<):."':':::"'.',::.:::;<<-.-::-''::::>:::' "::::::':"}'C':' .-.'.-- "":'-:' expanding downtQ~boulevards, medians and other public areas. Brad will be relocating his -'~'?H%tf}t:\._, ,-'-"'- family from Grand RapIds in the near future. His first day on the job will be Monday, June 27. Upon Brad's arrival, please join me in welcoming him. Congratulations to Brad on his appointment. I would also like to introduce Kara Willems. Citizen Coordinator. She will start her positi Cologne. Please joint me in welcoming Kara. a has been hired as the city's new Senior today, June 20. Kara presently lives in Congratulations to Kara on her appointment. . Erik Donley is serving as the Park & Recreation Department's intern for the summer. Erik is a senior at the University of Wisconsin, River Falls. Please help us welcome Erik if you have not already had the opportunity. - ( . C ITV OF CHANHASSEN ~~ 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission # FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director DATE: June 23, 1995 SUBJ: 1996 Budget Process . The city's 1995 financial calendar is attached fo our information. You will note that individual departments will receive 6 month Y ear to date) budgetary data in July. This data, in addition to other information, is in tu~.\iFd to develop a 1996 budget. The commission will be asked to develop a 1996 p~k an9 trail acquisition and development budget as a part of this process. The depar~ent's fi~t year capital improvement program is also in need of advancement (1992-1996) -i(1996-20PO). This information is being forwarded to fQrewarn you ofJhis rather ominous task. Commissioners will need to locate thegmaroon plastic bpund copy of the 1995 Park Acquisition and Development Capi~Improvement Progr~. Complete financial data and park and trail maps will also be forwarded to the commission. What other information do you desire? Would you like tqcdmplete this task as a partiof your regular July 25th meeting? Or is a special Illeeting the first half of August ne(;essary? I am anticipating your feedback in this reg c: . 1995 Financial Calendar Jan Deloitte & Touche pre-audit field work Jan Production of 1995 Adopted Budget/Upload to Ramsey County 1993.1994 & projected 1995 cash flow analyses Jan 01/20/95 1995 C~y Summary Budget Report to Minnesota State Auditor Feb Aud~ confirmations mailed 02101/95 Report of Outstanding Indebtedness to Carver County Auditor Feb-Mar 1995 Bonding- 1 st Series Apr Assessed Property Value Hearing Apr 1 st quarter analyses of cash flow Apr Begin conversion of in-house accounting system May Begin conversion of in-house utility billing system May-Jun Delo~e & Touche audit field work Jun Production of Comprehensive Annual Financial Report 06/29/95 Application to GFOA for Certificate of Achievement for Excellence in Financial Reporting 06/29/95 C~y Financial Report to Minnesota State Aud~or Jul 6 month YTD budgetary data to departments for initial budget request process Jul 2nd quarter analyses of cash flow Jul RFP for fiscal year '95-'97 auditing services 07/29/95 Publish audited financial statement in newspaper Aug Council work session to select aud~ors Aug Update debt study w~h 1994 audited year end data Aug Report to City Council on issues raised in the 1994 audit report Aug Completion of accounting system conversion (go live) 08/07/95 Work session to review Park & Recreation and Public Works 1996 budget requests ~~ . . . . I 1 . 08/21/95 Sept Sept 09/11/95 09/15/95 09/15/95 09/18/95 Oct. Oct 10/16/95 11/06/95 . Nov. Nov. Nov. Nov/Dec 11/30/95 12/11/95 12/28/95 12/28/95 1995 Financial Calendar Work session to review Public Safety and Planning 1996 budget requests RFP for 1996 official depository Completion of utility billing system conversion (go live) Work session to review Administration and Special Revenue Funds 1996 budget requests Certify to the County Auditor dates for public hearing and continuation hearing, if necessary Certify to the County Auditor the proposed property tax levy for payable 1996 Work session to review Revenue Projections and Misc. Funds 1996 budget requests Council designates official depository 3rd quarter analyses of cash flow Work session for decision on How to Balance the Budget Work session to present balanced budget Truth in taxation Notices mailed by the County Treasurer Advertise Notice of Truth in Taxation Hearing 2-6 days prior Truth in Taxation Hearing Continuation hearing, if necessary, 5-14 days following Certify special assessments to county auditor for 1996 collection Formal Adoption of 1996 Budget and Tax Levy Certify to County Auditor the final adopted property tax levy for payable 1996 Certification of Truth in Taxation to Minnesota Department of Revenue . . CITY OF beL CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM FROM: Park and Recreation Commission ~7/1' Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director ~y TO: DATE: June 22, 1995 SUBJ: Director's Report-In No Particular Order Lake Ann Park Concession Stand Bre .. ns: The city Lake Ann Park shelter on June 19, 15195. Three adults Prior to their arrest, they manageciJO consume or ditch bars (their favorite) among oth~~)candies. The point of they "shouldered" the door.~ith enough repetition to sheer memorandum in the 'nistrative packet). ight. Additional appointments (resident) 27. The City of Maple Grove approved on Tuesday, June 20. This successful Prairie and Maplewood. [Note: The that they are not interested in . Parks Task Force: The first meeting takes plac are being made by the city council on Monda a $5 million referendum for acquisition of effort follows closely in the footsteps of owners of the Bluff Creek Golf Course selling.] its second burglary at the a juvenile were apprehended. 25 Snicker ice cream was the front door. It appears dead-bolt (see related Lake Susan P a result, the new majority of the excavati $30,000. As Staffing: It took over two months, 100+ now have two more full-time and one perm recreation (see related memorandum). ns, and a couple dozen interviews, but we part-time employees working in parks and . Goose Removal: Geese were removed from Lake Minnewashta, Lake Lucy, the Butte Court Pond and the Near Mountain Ponds on Wednesday, June 21. Park & Recreation Commission June 22, 1995 Page 2 . Vacant Land: Land in Chanhassen continues to become more scarce and more expensive by the day! New Community Center: Prince, I mean "the Symbol," as I am sure you are aware, is operating a community center of sorts. Your thoughts? Powers Boulevard Trail Connection: The trail segment from the corner of West 78th Street along the east side of Powers Boulevard north to Saddlebrook is in jeopardy. The issue centers on the high cost of soil amendments. I will continue to advocate this connection until such time that it is in the ground. Please lobby the council! Future Soccer Complex?: Tonka United Soccer is exploring the possibility of constructing a 30:1: field soccer complex on the Teich property. If you recall, this property is located south of the intersection of Highways 212 and 101. They need your preliminary thoughts and opinions regarding this type of proposal. 1995 MRPA Conference: I am co-chairing the MRPA fall conference. It will be held on November 1-3 in St. Cloud at the convention center, the Kelly Inn, and the Radisson Hotel Suites. I hope to get a few of you out of town for a portion of the event. Please check your calendars. . Land Donation: The proposed O'Shaughnessy land donation of 65 acres at the southwest corner of the intersection of Galpin Boulevard and Highway 5 is pending. I will keep you posted. . . ADMINISTRATWE SECTION . . DNR NI;WS -- FOR IMMFDIATI; RI;I FASI; For more information, contact Chip Welling, DNR Ecological Services, (612) 297-8021. lake Ann latest to harbor Eurasian watermilfoil infestation Surrounded by lakes that already had infestations of Eurasian watermilfoil, it was not a big surprise that Lake Ann in Carver County was recently discovered to contain the harmful exotic plant. However, for Chip Welling, DNR Eurasian Watermilfoil Program coordinator, it adds yet another lake where control efforts will need to be taken, probably for many years to come. "When milfoil is found we have two basic strategies," said Welling. "If the infestation is discovered early enough, we aggressively attempt to eradicate the milfoil, as is the case in . Lake Ann. However, if the plant becomes too widespread in the lake, eradication is unlikely, and we focus on management of the plant." This year the DNR will continue its efforts to eradicate mil foil in a very limited number of lakes with small, newly established populations. In addition, the DNR will make funds available to 28 lake associations, conservation districts, municipalities, and other organizations for control and management of milfoil infestations where eradication is considered unlikely. "As with most things, prevention is better than cure," said Welling. To help prevent the spread of milfoil, Welling recommends that owners of boats, personal watercraft, and other watercraft get in the habit of removing all aquatic plants from their equipment before leaving any lake or river. Discovery of milfoil in Lake Ann, the first discovery in 1995, brings the total number of lakes and rivers with known infestations to 68. Eurasian watermilfoil was first discovered in Lake Minnetonka in 1987. The plant develops dense mats on the water surface that restrict recreational use. "Public participation in monitoring the distribution of Eurasian watermilfoil remains a critical element in restricting the spread of milfoil," Welling said. "Early detection and treatment is the key to limiting the spread of this exotic plant." Those who believe they have discovered a new infestation are asked to call their local DNR office, or the DNR Ecological Services Section in St. Paul at (612) 297-8021. -30- . . . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor Beth Hoiseth, Crime Prevention specialist~ TO: DATE: June 19, 1995 SUBJ: Burglary at Lake Ann Shelter . As the result of a burglary occurring on June 19 of the Lake Ann Shelter. As in past breakins, door. After careful evaluation, I am providing security recommendations: 995, I conducted an on-site premise survey burglars gained access through an exterior the following minimum and maximum 1) On all exterior doors, single cylindeq:leadbolt plates with 3" screws (see attached diagram). with 1" throw and high security strike 2) Latch guard protector on exterior doors. This application may not be possible on the two exterior doors that are reces~ed. A locksmith could advise after looking at the doors. 3) Fire safety hazard. Repair single cylinder deadbolt in. door leading to women's restroom and storage area. Currently, the inside deadbolt latch is broken, excluding it as a fire exit. 4) Exterior doofs.Replace"Ufeguard"dooraI1ddoor leading into the women's restroom and storage ~~I;~ithsolid (noWindow)metaldQors. ... If.vents inthedQgl"~.!.~e necessary, a small ventnolwger that 6" x 12" should be located at the top of eaclj(loor. 5) Installation of alarm system. Estimates from two alarm companies attached. Estimates include installation of magnetic contacts gn all exterior doors and windows, an interior motion detector, and alarm signs clearly posted. """;;v' 6) Cash handling procedures. With the safety of park employees in mind, Deputy Walgrave passed along a concern. The deputy observed a large amount of money highly visible in the hands of the attendant at the front entrance. With the increase of cash flow over the weekends, a second "pickup" from the deputies may reduce the risk, as well as following up with the attendants to ensure discretion when handling large sums of money. A drop safe is another alternative. . MINIMUM RECOMMENDATIONS: Replace current exterior doors with solid steel doors, (no windows and vents located at the top). Install single cylinder deadbolt locks with high security strike plates on all exterior doors. MAXIMUM RECOMMENDATIONS: Same as minimum recommendations, but also to include an alarm system (see attached estimates by alarm companies). SUMMARY Because of the isolated location of the shelter, this facility will continue to be the target of breakins, if security measures are not taken. It is important to consistently secure all entrances in order to effectively deter criminal activity. The combination of properly installed security hardware and the implementation of security procedures will greatly reduce the risk of future burglaries. I am available to assist you in obtaining estimates for security hardware and installation. Please let me know how I can further assist. c: Don Ashworth, City Manager Todd Gerhardt, Assistant City Manager Scott Harr, Public Safety Director g ;\..fety\crin e\la keann.s ur . . . . . . ~ "'. -"'--";. ~: ... ............ ji -..... .. , r j'~' [. Double Cytinder Oeadbclt ~~ //;~ '\ ~ .' :/ .-\/ ~ ~ ,./ //~,\. r,. : heavy duty , ."':', .~' ,--...! / \\ :...- . st 'ks \] '(,i: ':, - . / - n -'--". " i ' ~' : ~ ~;>)~:) " .~:}G i ; "- ~nd~rg~~~3 ......... : ~ " ~:-... .: 1 throw -,_ ___./ ------ )(---> ".-, ' /' ../:.../...... ~^,:~"... _,,r<~r- .~._,~ "'- .....r...:.:;;:,.-..r L.O~ .... 3" screw - ~. //,' " " .", ~....::.,-r-., /. . thumbturn -- for Single Cylinder Deadbolt i1'~' ',~./ STATEMENT-OF-WORK AND COST DOCUMENT . CHANHASSEN PUBLIC SAFETY SECURITY SYSTEM .Q.!y Description 1 Side door with entry exit delay - contact 1 Side door - contact I Entrance from hallway door - contact 1 Motion detector protecting the front area induding space behind the roll-up windows 1 Inside alarm siren 1 Floyd Total Security First Alert digital keypad arming station I Floyd Total Security First Alert 100 alarm control unit with digital alarm transmitter and rechargeable backup batter System Features Include - Quick arm of entire system - Selective arm perimeter/interior or both - Keypad combination change (arm/disarm code) - Built in duress alarm - Individual zones reporting to Central Station - By pass individual zones . FLOYD TOTAL SECURITY INSTALLED LEASE SYSTEM: Installation Monthly Monitoring $260.00 $21.00 Included in the monthlv service charl!es are the followine - All necessaIY telephone wire facilities - 24 hour monitoring . . . . alarmex Executive Office 6640 Shady Oak Road Suite 300 Edeln Prairie, MN 55344 (612) 933-8858 FAX (612) 943-3854 August 9. 1994 Ms. Beth Koenig City of Chanhassen Public Safety Dept. 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, MN. 55317 Dear Beth: Alarmex proposes to furnish and install the following security system in the Lake Ann Park Shelter, on Hwy 5 in Chanhassen, MN: SCHEDULE OF PROTECTION 1 - Radionics 4112 Control Panel 1 - Radionics 620 Keypad 2 - Exterior Metal Doors Contacted 1 - Interior Metal Door Contacted 2 - Metal Roll-Up Doors Contacted 1 - Interior Electronic Siren System also includes: -Full One (1) Year warranty on both parts and labor. -Written instructions on how to operate the system. -RJ31X Telephone interface connections. -Control cabinet with power supply and backup batteries. -All wire, anchors, conduit, fasteners, and other hardware. -Stickers on doors and windows indicating alarm. EQUIPMENT TOTAL: $425.00 INSTALLATION, LABOR, WIRE, ETC.: $400.00 TOT AL SYSTEM PRICE(sales tax not included): $825.00 MONTHL Y MONITORING: $17.50 (billed annually) Thank you for the opportunity to serve your security needs. Sincerely. ALARM EX fU-~/ /( ~.~ Patrick K. Loaney y Account Manager Accepted by: Date: f(}\ LISTED ~CENTRAL STATION ~ ~ CITY OF CHANHASSEN . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 June 17, 1995 Mr. Jay Kronick Lotus Lawn & Garden 78 West 78th Street Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Jay: Congratulations! The city council confirmed your appointment to the 1995 Parkland Acquisition and Development, Trail Construction, and Open Space P eservation Task Force (Parks Task Force). Contrary to what was printed on previous correspondence, our meeting will be on Thursday, June 22 from 7:00-8:30 p.m. Please meet in the Courtyard Conference Rogfi City Hall. A complete proposed time line for the Task Force is attached. Please notice that three morning meetings have been scheduled. This has been done to preserve some of our beautiful summer evenings for other uses. . Be aware that the city council has only confirmed five of the eleven Task Force members. A majority of the resident applications were received too .late to allow for review by the council. Final appointments will be made on June 26. You can anticipate that our work will b~paced quickly and goal oriented. A complete syllabus, including critical dates, will be presented to members at our fi~~t meeting. Please respect the city's 75% attendance policy for commis~ions during your tenure (3 apsences). This will help ensure a successful process. A Task Force chair will be elected on Junef~' I will act as the secretary to the Task Force. I look forward to seeing you on the 22nd. Sincerely, Todd Hoffman, CLP Park & Recreation Director c: Mayor and City Council Park & Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager Kate Aanenson, Planning Director Dean Trippler, Chanhassen Villager . . C ITV OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 June 17, 1995 Mr. Jim Andrews 7014 Sandy Hook Road Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Jim: . Congratulations! The city council confirmed your appointment to the 1995 Parkland Acquisition and Development, Trail Construction, and Open Space Preservation Task Force (Parks Task Force). Contrary to what was printed on previous correspongence, our first meeting will be on Thursday, June 22 from 7:00-8:30 p.m. Please meet in the Courtya,~~fonference Room at City Hall. A complete proposed time line for the Task Force is attached'J:>le~se notice that three morning meetings have been scheduled. This has been done to preserve some Of our beautiful summer evenings for other uses. Be aware that the city council has only confirmed five of the eleven Task Force members. A majority of the resident applications were received too .late to allow for review by the council. Final appointments will be made on June 26. You can anticipate that our work will be paced quickly and goal oriented. A complete syllabus, including critical dates, will be presented to members at our first meeting. Please respect the city's 75% attendance policy for commissions during your tenure (3 absences). This will help ensure a successful process. A Task Force chair will be elected on June 29. I will act as the secretary to the Task Force. I look forward to seeing you.. on the 22rid. Sincerely, ~-~ '/c,~.(/ ."............... Todd Hoffman, CLP Park & Recreation Director c: Mayor and City Council Park & Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager Kate Aanenson, Planning Director Dean Trippler, Chanhassen Villager . CITY OF CHANHASSEN . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 June 17, 1995 Mr. Jim Manders 6791 Chaparral Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Mr. Manders: Congratulations! The city council confirmed your appointment to the 1995 Parkland Acquisition and Development, Trail Construction, and Open Space Preservation Task Force (Parks Task Force). Contrary to what was printed on previous corresponlience, our first meeting will be on Thursday, June 22 from 7:00-8:30 p.m. Please meet in the Courty onference Room at City Hall. A complete proposed time line for the Task Force is attached. notice that three morning meetings have been scheduled. This has been done to preserve our beautiful summer evenings for other uses. Be aware that the city council has only of the resident applications were received appointments will be made on June 26. . eleven Task Force members. A majority review by the council. Final Sincerely, <~;- ~~< quickly and to members at our during your tenure (3 will be elected on June oriented. A complete syllabus, meeting. Please respect the city's This will help ensure a I will act as the secretary to the You can anticipate that our work will including critical dates, will be 75% attendance policy for successful process. A Task Task Force. I look forward to Todd Hoffman, CLP Park & Recreation Director c: Mayor and City Council Park & Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager Kate Aanenson, Planning Director Dean Trippler, Chanhassen Villager . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 June 17, 1995 Mr. Steve Berquist 7207 Frontier Trail Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Steve: . Congratulations! The city council confirmed your appointment to the 1995 Parkland Acquisition and Development, Trail Construction, and Open Space Preservation Task Force (Parks Task Force). Contrary to what was printed on previous correspondence, our first meeting will be on Thursday, June 22 from 7:00-8:30 p.m. Please meet in the CourtY~.ii . onference Room at City Hall. A complete proposed time line for the Task Force is attached. }J>l....se notice that three morning meetings have been scheduled. This has been done to preserve sorneof our beautiful summer evenings for other uses. Be aware that the city council has only confirmed five of the eleven Task Force members. A majority of the resident applications were received toolate to allow for review by the council. Final appointments will be made on June 26. You can anticipate that our work will be paced quickly and goal oriented. A complete syllabus, including critical dates, will be presented to members at our first meeting. Please respect the city's 75% attendance policy for commissiohs during your tenure (3 absences). This will help ensure a successful process. A Task Force chair will be elected on June 29. I will act as the secretary to the Task Force. I look forward to seeing you on the 22nd. Sincerely, -~d Todd Hoffman, CLP Park & Recreation Director c: Mayor and City Council Park & Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager Kate Aanenson, Planning Director Dean Trippler, Chanhassen Villager . CITY OF CHANHASSEN . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 June 17, 1995 Mr. Jeff Farmakes 7100 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Jeff: Congratulations! The city council confirmed your appointment to the 1995 Parkland Acquisition and Development, Trail Construction, and Open Space Preservation Task Force (Parks Task Force). Contrary to what was printed on previous corresponcl~nce, our first meeting will be on Thursday, June 22 from 7:00-8:30 p.m. Please meet in the Courty~,f~:ironference Room at City Hall. A complete proposed time line for the Task Force is attached'i~let~e notice that three morning meetings have been scheduled. This has been done to preserve some of our beautiful summer evenings for other uses. . Be aware that the city council has only confirmed five ofthe eleven Task Force members. A majority of the resident applications were received too"Utte to allowfor review by the council. Final appointments will be made on June 26. You can anticipate that our work will ~~paced quickly and g(}<;tl oriented. A complete syllabus, including critical dates, will be presented to members at our first meeting. Please respect the city's 75% attendance policy for commissions during your tenure (3 apsences). This will help ensure a successful process. A Task Forcec:hair will be elected on June 19. I will act as the secretary to the Task Force. I look forward to seeing you on the 22nd. .--;?""' d:/- /~ ? ,4-(:ft[ / Sincerely, Todd Hoffman, CLP Park & Recreation Director c: Mayor and City Council Park & Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager Kate Aanenson, Planning Director Dean Trippler, Chanhassen Villager . . PROPOSED TIME LINE FOR PARK REFERENDUM June 12, 1995 Appointment of Task Force. Task Force Meetings: June 22 Regular Meeting City Hall, Courtyard Conference Room - 7:00-8:30 p.m June 29 Regular Meeting City Hall, Courtyard Conference Room - 7:00-8:30 a.m. July 13 Regular Meeting City Hall, Courtyard Conference Room - 7:00-8:30 p.m. July 25 Joint meeting of the Task Force and Park & Recreation Commission City Hall, Council Chambers - 5:30-7:00 p.m. July 27 . July 29 August 10 August 14 August 19 August 22 August 24 Public Open House City Hall, Council Chambers - 7:00 p.m. Public Tours Departing City Hall - 9:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. Regular Meeting City Hall, Courtyard Conference Room - 7 :00-8:30 a. m. City Council Review of Task Force Findings Regular City Council Meeting, Council Chambers - 7:30 p.m. Public Tours Departing City Hall - 9:00 a.m.-12:00 p.m. Park & Recreation Commission final review of Task Force findings. Regular Park and Recreation Meeting, Council Chambers - 7:00 p.m. Regular Meeting City Hall, Courtyard Conference Room - 7:00-8:30 p.m. September 7 Regular Meeting City Hall, Courtyard Conference Room - 7:00-8:30 a.m. . September 21 Regular Meeting City Hall, Courtyard Conference Room - 7:00-8:30 p.m. September 25 October 10 City Council final review of Task Force Recommendation. Certification of Ballot Regular City Council Meeting, Council Chambers - 7:30 p.m. . Voting Day . . . . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Scott Harr, Public Safety Director ~ FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director DATE: May 31, 1995 SUBJ: Miscellaneous Enforcement Issues The summer park season has begun and repoI1~oflllappropriate activities are pouring in. Seasonal staff members in the Park & Recreation Department are trained to intervene in a variety of situations. However, many situatiqns are best left to the professional staff of the Public Safety Department. Here are the types of complaints/observliJices being repOI1ed. The majority of the reports focus on Lake Ann and Lake Susan Community Parks; hQwever, all city park sites are susceptible to the same incidents. " Under age drinkiJig and use of tobacco produ.sts. Glass containers. Parkin .n<non-designated areas, including on the grass. Har andaIismattheLake>Ahh. concessions stand. c: Mayor and City Council Public Safety Commission Park & Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager C ITV OF CHANHASSEN . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 June 14, 1995 Chanhassen Rotary Club Attn. Ms. Pat Papenfuss, President 80 West 78th Street Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Pat: I would like to thank you and the entire Rotary b for responding to my correspondence regarding the community picnic for Chanhasseiii ual 4th of July Celebration. As you know by now, the Chanhassen Lions Club hasagre~d to coordinate the Annual Community Picnic and concessions. . In 1993 and 1994, the Rotary Club coord@ted the community picnic and concessions in an organized and efficient manner, and the 9!1:Y was appre<?iative. In regards to 1995, the solicitation letter stated the HRA (Housjj:ig and Redeve19pment Authority) and the City of Chanhassen would cover all direct costs required for the (;ommunity picnic; tents, tables, chairs, and publicity. This year th~{~ity of Chanhassen is not in a position to pay a civic organization any amount of compensation to coordinate the picnic. It was the city's belief that the profits generated froItlithe concession sales would exceed the effort for the community picnic coordin~tioIl. eRotary andtheiCityhas always been strong, and it is my hope it est and February Festival. Looking ahead to the 1996 4th of July tent to have the food and beverage services coordinated through The relationship b will continue fo Celebration, it is t local civic organizations an Pat, please call me if you have any question Sincerely, Q Jerry 1~r ~ Recreation Supervisor . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 June 14, 1995 Chanhassen Lions Club Attn. Mr. Jack Spalding 2501 County Road 92 Minnetonka, MN 55359 Dear Jack: On behalf of the City of Chanhassen, I would liji~to thank the Chanhassen Lions Club for coordinating this year's Community Picnic and#6ncessions for our Annual 4th of July Celebration. I appreciated the invitation to participate and talk about the 4th of July at your . last meeting. Charlie Robbins and Gary Boyle have been in transition for the 4th of July. The city trulY giving back to our community. me, and I anticipate a smooth Lions dedication of serving and Talk to you soon! Sincerely, /}l~ . Jerri RCiemer pc: Todd Hoffmann . , . ,',11,'-__';;\ 1<1.:11 l~ ichtt.:r \\C~ll"ll Areh feefs . D \ ,. i. i L..... ~ l ( I r:..: /;'1 >..:; il j~' <: .,'~! il 1'1 ~~ f1 : 1 : : June 16, 1995 Todd Hoffman Park & Recreation Director Chanhassen Parks & Recreation 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Todd, AKRW is pleased to announce the commencement of construction of the Inver Grove Heights Veteran's Memorial Community Center Ice Arena. In the last five years, our firm has completed several community center and ice arena projects. Our experience in the region is extensive and unsurpassed. Ankeny, Kell, Richter, Walsh Architects, P.A. (AKRW) is a full service architecture and interior design firm specializing in recreation, education, corporate, retail, and manufacturing projects. In 1994 the firm completed over $60 million of construction. . Design excellence combined with personalized service is the core of AKRW's professional practice. By balancing these two perspectives, AKRW provides design leadership that is sensitive to function, schedule, budget and the unique needs of the project. The daily practice of this philosophy has earned our clients' confidence and respect, and resulted in substantial repeat business. When planning for a new ice arena or other community / recreation project, take ad vantage of AKRW's expertise and wealth of experience. We have enclosed a project sheet describing the new Inver Grove Heights Veteran's Memorial Ice Arena. For further information about how we might assist you, please contact Duane A. Kell, FAIA, at 612-645-6806. Sincerely, ANKENY, KELL, RICHTER, WALSH ARCHITECTS, P.A. Duane A. Kell, F AlA Enclosure DAK/jsg RECEI VED . , ". .' I 1095 ~ ( ,':\ ~ ,-! J ......: ..l"} -...)' CITY OF CHAj\JHA~::it:.i\i . INVER GROVE HEIGHTS VETERAN'S MEMORIAL COMMUNITY CENTER ICE ARENA . senior's center, multi-purpose community spaces and office space for the Parks and Recreation Department. Inver Grove Heights, MN City of Inver Grove Heights This community center building features two ice sheets. One sheet contains per- manent spectator seating for 2500 spec- tators around the 85 x 200 ice sheet. Lockersrooms and other support spaces are contained under the seats. The sec- ond ice sheet doubles as a fieldhouse for various dry floor activities seven months out of the year. The community center includes space for youth programs, a Location: Owner: Gross area: Construction cost: Construction cost per SF Completion: n,500 s.f. $3,975,000 $51.29 1995 ~ - ~ ~- 7~:i'>"'~>iF.,.,:",=- ~ > . ~ .. '. ~" . t ~. ~.--:;d ( ., . , '-- ?~~ . ] . --,--' __"C . Ii J _-:..==______.I_.~/ r\. "-----) -,.,-...:1. ~,~.;:. ;/{.>" .--.c::~ ..~~---.::::::" ~~..,'...'Io ,;' ~_ '~ . .. ','.'l.,~C..."' .,; "'.:'~." ~ -====---- I[ ~:,~", ~~~. . ~bl' ~"2'> i'': ._""= i - ..-. '-"'","'.1_ ,7: ~1 - =:~----- -'~it - ~- ~. __?t~..,~:",:,~_~=~~ jr -.'i'I"f] , [", "''':~1 jl l..... [;:;-::;-; li"'!\-II "[!!,I:!,'I ',,; '~:~Il ! [~~' 1 I, · :~:~11, Ii...... I-} ! I ...... I i C ITV OF CHANHASSEN . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Captain Holt, Carver County Sheriff's Office Sergeant Witsack, Carver County Sh7e.ff'S 0 .ce 2800 Cars Scott Harr, Public Safety Director FROM: DATE: May 23, 1995 SUBJ: Lake Ann Money Drop Detail . Just a reminder that, as in the past, the Par~and Rec~~~tion Department has requested assistance from the Sheriff's Office in brillging the mOl1ey bag from Lake Ann to the drop- box located at the east entrance of CityI:f~ll. The Par~}~nd Recreation personnel will gather up the money, have it ready, and call 20 to 30 minutes ahead of time for a Deputy to be dispatched to pick the money bag ~g~iThey will contact~e CCSO non-emergency number (361-1231), and they understand th'~t if another emergency';arises, the pick up may be delayed. PC: g:\<;afet~b\lakeann.lm . .1$6 Chanhassen's annual Fourth of July Adult Fishing Contest Tuesday, July 4 8:00 - 10:30 a.m. Lake Ann Park Sponsored by area businesses . '" $I! RULES . $1 O/person entry fee. Preregistration required. . Maximum of 50 participants . State of Minnesota fishing regulations shall be followed. . All contestants shall provide their own boat and be responsible for launching. Boats subject to search. Fishing Is also permitted from the shoreline or pier. . The Minnesota DNR has designated Lake Ann as a Catch and Release lake for Largemouth Bass. Measure all Largemouth Bass with the ruler provided and return them to the water Immediately. Largemouth Bass prizes will be awarded to the longest fish, not by weight. . Practice good sportsmanship and honesty. . Lake Ann is a non-motorized lake; however, trolling motors are allowed. Outboard motors may remain on boats In the upright position. . All fish must be weighed-In or measured at the weigh-In station by 10:30 a.m. . Each contestent eligible for one prize. . Please Inspect your watercraft for Eurasian Water Milfol!. o o o o o 0 o Prizes Largest Northern 2nd Place Northern Berkley Digital Fish Scale Piano Tackle Box & Rapala Filet Knife Johnson Citation Combo Rod Berkley Onyz Combo Rod Largest Crappie Largest Sunfish Bass Category: 1. Chanhassen 4th of July T-shirt 2. Chanhassen Hat 3. Lake Ann Park Seasonal Pass For more information, contact Jerry Ruegemer at 937-1900 ext. 126. Adult Fishing Contest --------------------------------------- $10 Registration Form Name: Address: City/Zip: Phone: ( day) ( eve) Return completed form with payment by 12:00 noon on Friday, June 30 to: City of Chanhassen, 690 Coulter Drive, Chanhassen, MN 55317 ~o~~~~~~~~. oC 0 ~o c;) ciThe Chv 01 Chanhassen's annual 4th 01 lulV Celebration. . . v c;) c KIDS FISHING FESTIVAl el ~ TUESDAl JULY 4 11:30 A.M. -12:30 ~M. LAKE ANN PIER AGES 5-15 o c o{ "(\e'F>~ ~~\.\ cov~~\.\ ~ ~"(ee 'F>'F>e~ ~ov"( C~~~~~ ~"(\.~~ e\'F>\ ~~c..pe. ~ \)Vc~ 'A~O ~v~ Even contestant wins a prlzel Trophies and prizes awarded for the largest fish, longest fish and small- est fish in two age categories: 5-9 years and 10-15 years. Everyone eligible for prize draw- ings. Prizes include rod and reel combos; kids' tackle kits; gift certificates; cane poles; bobbers; bait buckets; 4th of July t-shirts; merchandise coupons; fishing lures; sinkers and more! For more information, contact e3Erik Donley at 937-1900 ext. 142. ------------------------------------ Sponsored bv area businesses. Kids Fishing Festival Q-ame: City/Zip: RULES · Preregistration required. Limited to 100 contestants. · Check in at Lake Ann near the boat landing at 11:15 a.m. · Fishing allowed from the pier or shore. · Weigh-in fish as you catch them, then release them or take them home for cleaning. · All adults helping must have a fishing license. Kids 15 years of age and younger do not need a license. · All largemouth bass must be returned to the water immediately. Registration Form .. Phone: tP'. Return completed form to the City of Chanhassen, 690 Coutler Drive, Chanhassen MN 553170 U by 12:00 noon on Thursday, June 29. ~~l C! ~c C ~ ~~~~~~o~;e) o . &6 ~/: . 0: ~ &11@, ~~n~.. Chanha~Sen's 4th of,July ~~n~. . ~0 Men s & Women s ~ '~I/:- . , ' July 4, 1995 .. o ti Lake Ann Park, Chanhassen, Minnesota Entry Fee: $85 plus 2 new balls Deadline: June 27, 1995 Prizes: Awarded for 1 st, 2nd and 3rd Places . Tournament Rules · All games played on 55 minute schedule. 20 run rule after 3 innings, 15 after 4 innings, 10 after 5 innings. · Games scheduled every 70 minutes. · Games will be 3/2, no courtesy. · 9 players may start/finish. · Guaranteed 2 games. · No time limit on championship game. · Games will be 7 innings. · Tournament will be run on a no protest basis. · All umpires decisions will be binding and fmal. · Roster must be turned in 30 minutes before first game. · USSSA Rules · USSSA Umpires Parking permits required for all vehicles entering Lake Ann Park: Daily Pass $ 2 Resident Seasonal Pass $ 5 Non-Resident Seasonal Pass $10 For more information, contact Jerry Ruegemer at 937-1900 ext. 126. Chanhassen's 4th of July Men's & Women's Fireworks Softball Tournament Registration Form Team Name: Manager's Name: Manager's Address: City, State, Zip: Area & League: Phone: D Men's D Women's . Return completed form \\ith payment to: Chanhassen Park & Recreation Department 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, MN 55317 The City of Chanhassen is not liable for injuries occurring as a result of this tournament. Entry will serve as acknowledgement of this rule. II! I ~\W .....;. present contracf expires on June JU and more than two months before classes resume in the fall. .' any 1l1\';111WQ.;:)~" II' u..,_._-....- --....-----~ severance pay, transition trust, retiree insurance, organizational leave, or any f ' ., Nearingc9nlpletioll E~ementary school,'rec center scheduled to:9pen in Sep.tf3rTl.beL By Kathy Nelson ~ .; the city funding $2.5 million: District Bluff Creek Elementary School is 112's funds come from a.portion of on a schedule and, right now, it's meet- the $46.5 million bQnd referendum ing that schedule. . . passed in 1993. The city funds for the The new elementary school, at the recreation center come from tax in- comer of Galpin Boulevard and High- crement proceeds from PiUsbwy Bak- way 5 in Chanhassen, is being built eries and Food Service. by District 112 to serve the growing The entire building has 113,000 number of students in the city. .The square feet in space. The school is ap- school has a capacity for 650 studentS proximately 90,000 square feet; the and wil\ be full on Sept. 5, the ftrst recreation center is 23,000 square day..of school. Cathy Gallagher, . feet.. . .' ..' '. Chaska Elementary School principal, Superintendent David GI6ugh said will be the principal for the new build- that according to the latest progress ing. . report from the contractor, the build- In a joint effort, the city is also ing will be at substantial completion constructing a recreation center on the by or near July I. Final completion is site. This building, also, is expected then expected by Aug.l. to be open to the public in Septem- Testing has already b.egun for ber. The recreation project is also run- some of the electrical and mechani- Ring ort schedule. .,._ .., cal systems in the ~hool. City inspec- The $9.3 million projeoHs"'tt-OO- tors have also begun~eirfinal inspec- . operative venture 15etween.DiStnct ...11On~."-"- ,'~ .':'" ~>.. .......... - . 112 and !he .ci~ ofCh~~~~;\ On~~.e exterior of ~~ building, s~hool dlstr!ct IS ftnancIIJSl().~':m.ik,:,-..,;.i' <; 5,;.,~.~ < .;. hon toward Its part of the proJect WIth . ,f SCHOOL to page 24 I.. ; "'... . ~. .... .' - ~ ,.'-. '. - .' ','- ." '- -," . 'BiuffC~ee~glementar;"staf{ . work t8g~!h~tJobLJildJJnitY .. . A~ .,constructioncrew.~~work;*'ti:' Bluff Creek principal Cathy Gal- fimsh\[lgBluff<::reek~I~,",ePtam;d.:!~ lagher said that the staff comes frollJ school's s'taffm'eml>ers are,working to. . a variety, of different backgroundS. build their own. strUctUre~:"H ~~:~:?;~;,;};'. one of the staff members is brand-neW The entire 40-member staff met to the district while others come from two days last week andall this wee~ various schools within the district. . in a:series of in-services'; focused on~: ,;'There, are.1 fo\irtieachers from .~ sharirig ideas for: the 'formati.<)O .ofi- Chimhassert Elementiuy - Michelle , Chanhassen's newest schqal. J1le staff ':'- JlihgerbCrg: Jari'Aridrus, Brian Beres- :.; has been meeting at Valhiy Vi~w Free', fotd,andAnn Curtrs. Two more teach- :' Church in Chaska;talking.abQut',\vJ\at' ers~~^ngie Wanless and Meg Grego- the structure will be in the n~w School' ry, 'come from the~hanhassen Mid:. , and sharing their' experienceS 'from.' ..:,..: ;':'.;"<j~ ':.: . . ',', ~ .>' the . ,.-:......". . .....: ;;C..' -"\,.if;.-" .'.:?'-" . 'S'" . '.'.~~T"'F.F to lJage 24. ~"'_:h-:_"""~>""'_'_'" "'r"~~~""; ,.., . J President Mark the board and " , , . Du'cks THE TINY Summer,'Pb meot,are b. held oo'.F,rie ~';;'l;, .~ :;<~ _ " ~. .' . ::; ;~.~~' :~';~;, ~ :;. ~ . -.... ,'~',,: 1.~~. ---~ "I _-i.-_-';:-"'''';_;;''Wi$~''''.- . ' Sellool continued from front . trail and sidewalk system, created on the site. - 'I Hoffman 'commented that'the' ': landscaping and creation of the ball fields will take more time. He prediCt- ed that they wouldn't be ready to play on until fall of 1996, at the earliest, with the spring of 1997 as a more like- ly time line. . . , The two new hockey rinks, which will make a total of four in the city, will be ready to use this winter, Hoff- man added. ' Dawn Beitel, recreation supervi- ' sor with the city, will be coordinating the staff over in the new building, he added. There will be between nine to 12 part-time staff in the building dur- ing the evening hours Monday through Friday. The Park Commission is now meeting to develop operation proce- dures and policies for the facility. The commission will create such things as ' rental rates, hours,program levels, and priorities of different groups in the community, ' , The recreation center will official- ly 'be open to the public'in Septem- ber, with a grand opening scheduled a few months after that. . ' "The building looks great... We're ' excited about it," said Homnan. most of the sidewalks are in place and _ the top,soil has been spread. Clough said the 'crew hopes the work on Gal- pin Boulevard will end when their site work has ended. " . Gallagher said that Carl Mattson, ' head custodian, is already in the build- ing. In about tWo weeks, some of the secretaries are expected to move out , . cilfi!''ll'~ to the school. y.< ' , "I'll come as'soon as I can, as soon as I'm finished with things at Chaska Elementary," Gallagher said. "They are allowing us to occupy some rooms before full completion." The entire BlutfCreek Elementa- ry School staff has toured the build- ing and are becoming excited about moving in, Clough added. The school design creates class-' r~ms inside clusters, promoting both multi-age learning groups and a "school within a school" concept. Clough noted that this design was used in Jonathan Elementary, built in 1991. However, Bluff Creek is all on one level whereas Jonathan Elemen- tary is a two-story building. Recreation center Park and Recreation Director Todd Hoffman said that work is com- ' ing along nicely. Mucb'ofthe floor- ing, including the gymnasium floor- ing, has been installed already. There' is still electrical and mechanical work, as well as'casework and installation , of equipment that needs to be com- pleted. :. _,,'. ' , The recreation ,center, will house a second gym, a fitness/aerobics room, one large community room that can be subdivided into four smaller meeting rooms, and a reception and support area for recreation staff. The two segments are connected by a cor- ridor., ' , Beyond the building, there will be several outdoor amenities created on the site. There will be, a multi-purpose e " . . ' park shelter, five ball fields, two light- <" _\ ." CJ. ed hockey rinks, four lighted tennis .... .. courts, a playground, landscaped' c: c: C C courtyards, outdoor classrooms, and (. It c;. C. . an access boulevard, all linked by a ( c... c> ., 0' -, ' 4; C) C') <<;) C ," " .... ~ .,....~-" ~" ! ',I ..re ..'-OJ f..fw ( . . <. (). (; e 0 (, \ " C,..1. . . C ( .. f:; <:) C ',! () ( .',.it . . l .:).. f) 0 ( , ce.a' ..( ..ac C..~ . . ( J... ( i Ie. 'C' . . c . .. c .... ~' , (e et4 - ,.,,,,..ef! . For public good " 'Clough noted that the process the ,( city and school district went through , to do the collaborative -projeCt took' ", time and extensive meetings and · agreementS. However, he pointed out , " the reward of opening up the facility, inchiding par(of .the elementary, -Sl school, to the community as a whole. al , "It's wonderful for everyone... the . a' kids who go to school there, as well " n as the community," he said:; ,~ ,c, :n , Clough added that despite the 1 project really having two owners "the ' wltole project haS' proceeded with very.l few problems.".;" ',.-,', '" , I- ..;.~HammeIGreen and Abrahamson...~,~ proviged ar(:hitectural andprofeSsion,-: : ,r, a1 services forthe Quildingand Bor-;', Son is the general contractor for the ",5 r;roject';'~~~1("-"'~/ ; ":": v~..~~~~ CiIt . .' ..1 ., . ..) ..4:. ... . a. .. ..... . i'C.:""'~:~)j~l~. . -ntdoes-noTiiiclude insunmce benefitS; nsition trus~ retiree ionalleave, or any .-, ,-.f'", '.J .. ,....,.. on nter tember .5 million. District from a portion of bQnd referendum e city funds for the come from tax in- from Pillsbul)' Bak- rvice. i1ding has 113,000 e, The school is ap- 00 square feet; the r is 23,000 square It David q6ugh said the latest progress ntractor, the build- stantial completion Final completion is Aug. 1. already begun for trical and mechani- school. City inspec- un ~h~~ final inspec- ior of the building, <'_ -J HOOL to page 24 staff unity, , rincipal Cathy Gal- he staff comes from erent backgrounds. , embers is brand-new lile others come from within the district. ; four teachers from mental)' - Michelle Andrus, Brian Beres- Jrtis. Two more teach- less and Meg Grego- he Chanhassen Mid- STAFF to page 24 :tIers! at our voicemail, .e your name and a lumber. :sted in putting to- n garage sales and ear from Chanhas- ho have stories to . . .. .. ,'_ ',"",', '_..:'-"_,';"':;:",',','-,,', ;....-_~__,~_.>:"':":.;."AI.,.,_'.,:...<.:_......'/ _ _," .. ~', ____ ,. ~.-..,--.,.;':----:'..c:-~.-~~,.I._;t.::::-....../....'~-;.,,:...'rt+.'-~-.,---~~?------,~--.~---~_._~.~.....~._.".....~:.~-.~..~~..--..-......~~~','- -'" : , "During ~e ,time ,f'?r:;'~pel1 Iorum .': ~ome therapy sessions," " - :"" ,,' ',', ;, ;,:'\yev.vere.llC?t:"Y.!>*~~~~.,!'<!~i~ before Thursday's 'meetmg,MTi\. "I, ,He added that the process was re- .werewor\(!ng ,toge~hed()ri.the go _ ." 'Presideiltrytark C~4!uR*y,th#rike~e \ 'a.lly a jourriey ,.,that ~h~, participants i, ,_ ~D~e~foliimU#!~t'\a"'" '. ", ,~t1~i', ~~\~~~. ~,~~;J~~~~~!~~~ ,e~,.;~;, ,,~~nt,~~~8!';,~'!! ,~ll5, :des!g~e~ ~ot;c ",~~P2.~]~!~~~1\ ~f ~' ~'.: ,..:'. :,".:~.:t;~:.-\4~11~)~~\-'~,~~.1~~~;~'f<i~): ~ti&r:-:~;;i;';~~r:-;;::':~'~;,',,, -- - :,"..'. ~L:.~:)~;./:-'" - .- - . -~~,~+-~~~~,:~{~iTk~i~;~~~'~:.~...-:- - ~.( , :' ~ in , ' li l ;~ il~ . ',; ,I 'I I" (:, it' n ~ : Ii I iI I .. . ""~1~"r,,",;.,J""". J.'t'>-"" ,;: fo' Ducks arid gee~~ ;<~: -: . " " ' , , , " THE TINYMITES~ ages 1& to 6, played a game, 9f~Duck, Duck, Goose" during the first day of Lake Susan's Summer Playground program. TJ'aese programs, sponsored by the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Depart- ment, are held in 10 different parks throughout the city, Monday through Friday. Lake Susan's program is held on 'Fridays, fro~lto 3 p.m. (Staff photo by Kathy Nelson), ' ' ," ',,'- , '-.,....' '~: ~...~t;: -,. .,I~'; ..... ,:. ',)." j' ti istorY.bits,~:'., "~,:,:' During this week in 1897, the' town council ofChanhassen con" , sidered the Iictmsingof peddlers. On a motion, the council resolved to charge peddlers and hawkers $10 per year ,if they traveled by foot, $15 per year if they. traveled in a one-horse vehicle,' aod$25 per year if they traveled in a,two.;. , horse vehicle.' ' '; ; . ~u~pl~'..ha~e- ; ',', pa,s,ey P~rk m9ve .nq, big ~e~1 to sorrie, ~financial to ,'others "., ',. _', . " ~__ _ ';_ '_,_.:' _:, _ .,_~,.,...~.,~~_-.-' ~"" ":., "','!r', ':' ....:.. " By Dean T~ppler; ": ~; , '>>: ,::': l{request to luna club with live and ':, . The laSt ~asp of a dying empire, recorded music and dancing. ,:;, . or Just a passmg fancy? , ' "They wanted to run it as a night : The recentnews that the rock star ,club," Gerhardt said, "But night clubs Prince would use his Paisley P~ Stu.;.lire not permitted (within that zon- dios as a recreation center has caused ing),"",,, , ,,,:' " " : speculation that .theartist i,s ttying .to' , , Paisley Park changed the concept ,bolster a struggling recordl~g studIO. to more of a recreation-type facility, . But Chanhassen offiCIals, \ind he said, which would open infrequent- PaIsley Park, downplay the move. Iy, probably on Wednesdays and Sat- Last Satu!day heralded the con':' urdays, , cept. of openmg up the Chanhassen The city, which had little to do studIOS for. an alcohol-free club for with the use of the facility, permitted dancing and music, Prince, in the past, the activity through in-house channels has. opened the facil!ty !othe public afterall code requirements were met. for Impromptu late-mght performanc- ' The St. Paul Pioneer Press, in a es. , " , stOI)' on Tuesday, concluded the club , , Assistant City Manager Todd Ger- ' hardt said Paisley Park came in with PAISLEY PARK to page 10 1 'II et d \i I 'I 'I ! . June 20, 1995 Dear Seniors: CITY OF y~~ CHIHHISSEN ~~~ 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 '0\ (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 Hi! I would like to take a moment to introduce myself. My name is Kara Willems and I am your new Senior Center Coordinator. I am a recent graduate of Mankato State University with a Bachelor's degree in Community Health and a minor in Gerontology. My work and volunteer experiences in relation to senior services and programming have been with Westview Acres Independent Living CommunityYt Waconia as a Certified Nursing Assistant and health educator; SMILINE Information andi,;!{~.ferral in Mankato; implementing a minority outreach service program for seniors in Regioq9;~enior Agenda for Independent Living/Minnesota Chore Corps as a sales assoCiate;lmd with the Mankato State University Health Education Office as a health educator. . I am extremely excited about accepting this position and feel that my past and present work experience with seniors, as well as my enthusiasm, will ensure the continued success of the Senior Center. I have reviewed the Senior Center Schedule for July and want to encourage all of you to attend the Orchestra HallCabaret Pops "Radio Days" on July 7 and the Minnesota Loons Baseball game onJuly 12. This will bea wonderful way for us to meet! If anyone is interested in these twotnps, please contact me atthe Senior Center at 937-1900 ext. 145 or sign up at the Senior Center. I appreciate your support! I look forward to I1].~etiIlg all.. of you! Sincerely, J{c~ ? (c Kara Willems Senior Center Coordinator KW:k . . The Chanhassen Senior Center th~ is celebrating its ..!~ 3rd Anniversary if July and the 4th of JulyH Join us under the tent at City Hall for a . FREE pancake and sausage breakfast provided by the Chanhassen Knights of Columbus. Tuesday, July 4 9-11 a.m. Please call 937-1900 ext. 145 or sign up at the Senior Center so we can plan for enough food. .