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1994 07 26 Agenda . . . FILE AGENDA CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREA nON COMMISSION TUESDAY, JUL Y 26, 1994, 7:30 P.M. CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRNE 7:30 p.m. Call Meeting to Order. ROLL CALL APPROV AL OF AGENDA (Commissioners may add or delete items at this time.) PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Presentation of Minnesota Recreation and Park Association A ward of Excellence, Lake Ann Park PicnicIRecreation Shelter: Presented by Mark McQuillan, MRPA Awards CommitteelRecreation Supervisor, City of Shakopee. 1. Visitor Presentations: Commission Procedures allow for presentations from the audience at this time. If a motion is required, the item will be forwarded to the next available agenda to allow for publication and review prior to consideration. 2. Carver Beach Park; Hear Requests of Paula and Loren Veltkamp, 6774 Lotus Trail. 3. Land Development Proposal: Preliminary plat to subdivide 46.5 acres into 36 rural single family lots and one outlot, Halla's Great Plains Golf Estates, located south of County Road 14 (Pioneer Trail), and west and east of Highway 101 (Great Plains Blvd.). 4. Land Development Proposal: Ed and Mary Ryan to rezone 37.92 acres of property zoned RR, Rural Residential to RSF, Residential Single Family, preliminary plat to subdivide 37.92 acres into 52 single family lots and a wetland alteration permit located at the intersection of Galpin Boulevard and proposed Lake Lucy Road extension, 6730 Galpin Boulevard, Shamrock Ridge. 5. 1995 Park Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP) work session. 6 Program Reports: a. b. c. 1994 4th of July Celebration Evaluation Septemberfest Preview Mid-Summer Reports 1. 2. 3. Lake Ann Park Parking Revenue Picnic Reservations Lake Ann Concession Stand .. 7. Administrative Presentations: a. Set Special Meeting Tuesday, August 9, 1994 b. Second Quarter Park and Trail Revenue Report c. Consider Changing 4th of July Celebration to a Summer Festival d. Appointment to District 112 Community Education Advisory Board 8. Commission Member Presentations: 9. Approval of June 28, 1994 Park and Recreation Commission minutes. 10 Administrative Packet. Adjournment. . . . . . CITY OF CHAHHASSEH ~ 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director DATE: July 19, 1994 SUBJ: Carver Beach Park; Requests of Paula and Loren Veltkamp, 6774 Lotus Trail Lotus Lake Park is an eight acre neighborhood park located along the northwest shore of Lotus Lake. The park is linear in character, maintaining one-half mile of lakeshore, much of it wooded. There are two "activity centers" within the park, located at the south and north beach areas. Carver Beach Park, in addition to Carver Beach Playground, were acquired as public parkland in the 1960' s from the Carver Beach Association. Since the June 28, 1994 Park and Recreation Commission meeting, I have had the opportunity to visit with Mr. Veltkamp at his property on two occasions, June 29 and July 18. During our second discussion, Mr. Veltkamp invited me to join him on his deck overlooking Lotus Lake. My initial reaction was one of amazement as I was greeted with one of the most spectacular views of Lotus Lake that I have ever witnessed.. The Veltkamps enjoy a beautiful setting; however, when park patrons visit the beach across from their home, they are forced to share their environment. This situation is a classic "You can't have your cake and eat it too" scenario. The Veltkamps assuredly paid for the lake view in purchasing their home, but they did not pay for a lake lot. The park, beach and swimming raft are across the road from the property-a fact the Veltkamps were aware of before purchasing their home. To describe the feeling from their deck, I can tell you that I could have communicated in a moderately loud voice with the children playing on the raft that morning. Mr. Veltkamp admitted that he may have over reacted due to the extensive use of the beach this spring and early summer. Park usage has subsided over the past three or four weeks. To assist with the parking problems, I suggested that the "legal" parking zone be tightened up (shortened) to help eliminate abuse of parking privileges (3 cars, with one being for handicapped). Beyond this, Mr. Veltkamp said he did not have anything new to add to their previous presentation. I await any further direction the commission wishes to give me. Park and Recreation Commission July 19, 1994 Page 2 . Attachments: 1. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated June 28, 1994. 2. Presentation from Mr. Veltkamp. 3. Memo from Todd Hoffman dated June 23, 1994. 4. Letter to Loren Veltkamp dated March 22, 1994. 5. Memo from Todd Hoffman dated August 18, 1994. 6. City Council Minutes dated August 24, 1992. . . . . . CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JUNE 28, 1994 Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Ron Roeser, Jim Manders, Jane Megers, and Dave Huffman. Jan Lash arrived during discussion on item number 2. MEMBERS ABSENT: Fred Berg ST AFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor Andrews: Before we get into the agenda I wanted to point out that we have a very long agenda tonight with a number of issues that will probably have comment from the audience. When you do come up to the podium, please state your name and address and try to limit your comments if possible. If you are stepping forward to state agreement with another person, I guess I'd appreciate it if you'd just state the agreement and sit down rather than restate the whole argument over and over again. Also, if you are making a new statement, I guess I'd try, you know try to limit it to less than 5 minutes if possible. We'd appreciate that so. With that being said, let's move on to item number 1 on our agenda. VISITOR PRESENT A TIONS: PAULA AND LOREN VELTKAMP. 6724 LOTUS TRAIL RE: CARVER BEACH PARK. Public Present: Name Address Paula & Loren Veltkamp Keith & Pat Gunderson Chris & Cindy Anderson Joanne & Stan Cronister Debbie & Pat McRaith Susan Albee Betsy Discher 6724 Lotus Trail 6660 Lotus Trail 6680 Lotus Trail 6730 Lotus Trail 6900 Lotus Trail 6871 Nez Perce Drive 6728 Lotus Trail Paula Veltkamp: My name is Paula Veltkamp and Loren Veltkamp, 6724 Lotus Trail. We'd like to present several proposals for eliminating park parking on Lotus Trail at the mini beach 1 area, removal of the dock and raft, and imposing a fme for littering. First of all we have a petition of all the residents on Lotus Trail. Can I just bring it forward? . Andrews: Yes, please. Paula Veltkamp: And then I also have the issues, the reasons why for eliminating the parking and. .. Loren Veltkamp: I think the petition tonight is unanimous with everybody within about 500 feet of this parking. I could have gotten more but... Everybody who is around it is against it Andrews: Okay. Paula Veltkamp: The reasons for eliminating the parking, I put down as over crowding, limiting of cars, parking not enforced, noise from the cars, noise from the people, city has liability for... We have 30 to 40 children down there... Sanitation. We have all those people down there with no bathroom facilities. People are violating the...safety laws. I've seen several times where people bring down their children in the trunk of their car. They're in the trunk. Regular trunk of a sedan. They pack their kids in the back plus people in the seats so they can get as many people onto the beach as possible. ...littering. Safety of the residents. We've seen people down there drinking and doing dope and that brings up the issue of my safety and all the neighbors safety. Pollution with different..detergent and they were like liquid detergent and what they do is I guess they play Mr. Bubbles with their kids in the beach. And there are other parking areas. I believe we have other facilities. On the next page I have some statistics about Lake Ann Park. It has a lot more acres and there are 2 . people per acre for parking just for the beach area. It's a lot larger than the Carver mini beach and the last issue is, why us? ...Greenwood Shores from Lake Ann. They're a smaller beach. They have a larger surrounding beach area and they have no parking and from my understanding it's probably a better site to swim on because there are no motor vehicles on it. Loren Veltkamp: They don't have parking on Lake Ann, I guess that's our point. They don't allow parking there but on our beach they have parking so we didn't think that that was fair. Paula Veltkamp: The last issue is parking and then we have...We'd like to eliminate the raft and buoys and move them to the larger Carver Beach area because we have problems with kids yelling obscenities of this and of that all day long. ...kids screaming at their friends on shore. Screaming kids pushing themselves off the raft. And as the city expands, the problem's just going to get worse and worse and, as far as the buoys. Loren Veltkamp: The buoys. We can't look out at the lake at night anymore because the buoys reflect a light from our house back into our eyes so now we don't have a view of the lake like we used to have. This raft has become very, very noisy. Just not during the day. Older kids in the afternoon and this is about, well the beach is approximately 30 feet from 2 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 our kitchen and living room. And the raft is 30 feet out in the water so that's about 60 feet So I can hear people talking in normal voices out on this raft and we have to listen to this all day long. Daycare in the mornings and afternoon and then the older kids come down and it's just too darn noisy for regular living and we feel that it's affecting our property value, which is one of our chief concerns here. My wife and I bought the house as an investment and we feel that this is being compromised by the parking and the number of people that can gain access to this beach. We can have 30-40 people on this beach at any time and there's no lifeguard. There's no one to keep them quiet so this is definitely going to compromise our, the value of our house because you have to sit across from somebody and disclose what the park is like. And I have to tell them, yes the park is noisy as heck and it makes me mad every day. If I say this to somebody, that's $25,000.00 off the price of the house minimum. I figure. So we're in a situation now where our taxes go up routinely every year but because of this park, and particularly the parking policies, the value of our property is probably going down at this point because the level of activity at this park has probably doubled in the last year and you can talk to other people here but it's going up and it's going up real fast and we don't know what the reason is but we think it's a part of, they put that parking in there last year against everybody's I think except one person was for it but they don't even live there anymore. But anyway, that's the problem that we have. There's other factors involved. Paula Veltkamp: I guess the last thing, I had a...I've gone down there and picked up, I bring down a garbage bag and I just fill it up with garbage from, if there's a busy Saturday or Sunday and that's just for the morning and in the afternoon I do the same thing. I know I'm not the only one that's doing that. I've talked to other people on the street that they pick up garbage and it's even worse during the fishing season. When I take the dog for a walk and I'll take a garbage bag or two and I'll just spend 5 minutes on the lake and I'll fill up both those garbage bags in a 5 minute timeframe so we feel that littering is really an issue. For us as well as for the lake because then all that debris is going into the lake and I can pick up debris but I can't pick up piles of cigarette butts and there's a limit. Loren Veltkamp: That's about it for us. I have a list of things that I would like to see done with the park. There's 12 items here that I would submit to you to look them over. And then let some of these other people speak if they want to. I think they have different issues.i Andrews: When did you buy your house? Loren Veltkamp: In November. Andrews: Of? Loren Veltkamp: Of last year. And when we purchased it we inquired about the park 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . extensively because that's a standard real estate question. Is there any noise? ...and the answers to these questions were no. You know hardly anybody visits the park. You know it's almost always quiet and this has been anything but the case. Now I could go back and complain to the owners but see it's changed so much in the last year since they put that parking in that I don't really think that they lied to me. They were there for 13 years or something, you know and I don't think it was a problem back then. I think that this parking thing now has allowed so many people to come down that you can't have a moment's peace from 9:00 to 11 :00 at night. And then when the fishing opener comes around, you have people down there at 3:00 in the morning you know drinking beer and fishing and stuff like that. The cops don't come down and deal with it like they should. Should I talk about the tickets thing? Paula Veltkamp: ...parking being enforced or not enforced. I asked Todd Hoffman to send me a list of calls that were made, actually tickets that were issued in the last year and a half and he sent me a list of calls that there made in that timeframe between January, 1993 and June of this year. And out of those he marked 17 that actually looked like they dealt with the whole Lotus TraiVCarver Beach area and a couple of those did have citations issued and we noticed that there were none of those on the list were from our residents and I know that we've called at least 8 times. So that indicates to us that not all the phone calls are being recorded. . Loren Veltkamp: Which means you don't have access to all the problems that are going on down there. There's not a record of it. So there's no way for you guys to look at the record and see what the record is. See how bad it really is. I don't know how else you would come. So there's some kind of a problem there and I don't know where it is but there's a lot more calls about these problems than are getting into these reports as far as we know. Huffman: So you want to get rid of the parking? Loren Veltkamp: Yeah. But there's some other things I also want that I wrote on here. Should I go through these or do you want us to just read it? Huffman: Can they just read it? Andrews: It's 12 items? Loren Veltkamp: I can go through them quickly. Andrews: Yeah, please. 4 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Loren Veltkamp: We want you to remove non-handicap parking. Not the handicap parking because we understand there's some handicap people in the neighborhood and that's not the problem. But it's just the non-handicap parking. I would personally like to remove the raft and buoys to the south beach where there's more space and they can put up with more noise but I don't know about the other people down there. They should have a say about that Also my understanding is that the owner of our house previously built a raft and that if we bought his house then this raft could be mine. And I don't know about this but I would like to pursue this. Does anybody know? Resident: Yes it is. Huffman: What do you know? Loren Veltkamp: What do you know? Resident: That raft was built by Michael Wegler. Huffman: Is it city property now? Is it his or what? Resident: The city does own the raft. Hoffman: It's city property. Huffman: So it's city property now. Loren Veltkamp: Where is the receipt for the purchase. Hoffman: I have that logged. Loren Veltkamp: Can I have that to verify that? Hoffman: Sure, absolutely. Huffman: So that's our's now. Loren Veltkamp: Alright I would still like the raft moved but other people...about that. I would definitely like to post no screaming rules in this park immediately because people are screaming after their dogs. They're screaming after their kids. And kids are screaming at each other and just to give you an example of what a kid screamed at somebody today, he was in a fight with another young boy down there. These are teenagers and he said, I'm 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . going to hire some niggers to wreck your f'ing car. You know this is the kind of talk that we hear going on down the street And yesterday there was a girl from Fox Chase down there and she asked these same boys what time is it and the kid says, pull down your pants and I'll tell you. Now this is the kind of stuff that we hear from the kids in this park and we don't think they deserve a park, to be honest. And I've heard this from a number of people up and down the road as we walk our dog, we meet people and you know they all complain about this. The people at the south end of the park have these kids drinking in the woods late at night and you tell them to be quiet and they say, f you. This is public property. You know you can't tell me what to do. Only the police can. So you call the police and the police cruise up and down the road but they don't go in the woods. So then they never get anybody and you have the same problem next week or the week after that. So there's no solution here and that doesn't involve the parking but we just want to relay some of the problems that we're having with just having a lot of people down there who are not neighborhood people. The original agreement with this property, when the city took it over is that it would stay a neighborhood beach and that is what we want. A neighborhood beach where we can leave our stuff down at the beach. We don't have to worry about it getting stolen. We don't have to worry about people corning in and you know abusing this or that or littering. You know when you get people from out of the neighborhood on this 30 foot strip of land, they don't care you know. We have to pick up after them. We have to do all this stuff so I would like to see the no screaming rule imposed. We would like to see litter baskets along the trail because there's a lot of litter. I'd like to post and enforce substantial littering fInes because I . don't see any penalty for littering so everybody just does it. We would personally like to see mooring of boats along there for the put out residents along Lotus Trail. And I thought this was fair because we have to put up with the noise and stuff and originally the agreement, as it's been relayed to me by people in the street, was that the city allowed people to moor their boats there like on weekends and stuff but then they just stopped doing that. But that was part of the original agreement for landowners who turned over the beach to the city originally. So I would like to see that again. I don't know about other people but it seems to me that it would be fair to allow that. I'd like to see the city park sign removed and post a neighborhood beach sign instead because if you advertise it as a city park, then people from, it becomes an inner city park. You have people from Brooklyn Center and Minneapolis and anybody corning down there and it's only a 30 foot strip of land. There's hardly enough room for everybody. I would like to see installed a removable, knee high posts that prohibit parking along the north beach and those little posts like you see in other parks you know so people can't pull up to the beach and dump off all their stuff and then go park, which is what people do. You know they come down with their coolers and floatation devices and they park in front of the beach where it says no parking, unload all their kids, slam their doors. You know yell at everybody. Did you bring this? Did you bring this? You didn't bring this you jerk. You know what's the matter with you and we have to put up with all this noise which is, they do have, that's 20 feet from our deck. Now if you're sitting on your deck I 6 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . mean this is just the endless parade and it goes on right under our nose. Paula Veltkamp: And we know that the neighbors down the street have complained. Not just us but other people have complained about the noise. They have to shut their windows and turn on the air conditioning because they can't stand the noise too so it's not just because we have such a close proximity to the beach. Loren Veltkamp: And we've done that and we can still hear it so. We would like to hear from the Board tonight that they have an intention of keeping our property values on the up and up. I'd like to hear that from you guys tonight because I don't know that the Board is committed to our property values. For all I know the Board is only committed to giving as much parking and people down there as possible. I don't know where the Board stands on this. Roeser: How many parking spaces are there Todd? Hoffman: Four, one being handicapped. Roeser: Four including a handicapped? . Hoffman: Four including a handicapped, correct. Paula Veltkamp: But there's been as many as 6 or 7 cars parked down there. One of the safety patrol cars, when I called one, he told the people on the beach they were illegally parked. Just to shove their cars in more so they could all fit there. So there are, I would say there are at least 6 parking spaces there. Loren Veltkamp: And this is a minor thing but you need a sign that says no picking of flowers along that trail because this spring, after waiting all winter for the flowers to bloom, these little girls came down and they walked out with armfulls and they were all gone. Roeser: These were neighborhood girls? Loren Veltkamp: Yeah. I mean it's the cutest thing. We didn't say anything to them but you know, all the flowers. I mean they got them all... Finally, enforce parking after hours and... within a reasonable period of time. We've called the police complaining and then they come down a half hour later and the people are gone. The situation's different you know. So the police have also told us that they really have better things to do than chase people around on this park and I don't blame them. The last time I called somebody down they said, we have an emergency on the other side of town where a little boy's life is actually in . 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . danger. Now we're down here servicing this call you know. Well what am I supposed to do? I don't know. You know this is the kind of feedback I get from the police you know and it's fair but you know, they really, the city's not in a position to police this park the way it needs to be policed. This is the weird problem that you guys are in now. So I don't have your solution for you but I'm just telling you our point That's my 12 things. I'll leave this with you. Andrews: Thank you. Is there anybody else from the neighborhood that wishes to speak about this issue? Please step forward. State your name and address for the record please. Thank you. Susan Albee: Mr. Chairman. Members of the commission. Members of the staff. Susan Albee, 6871 Nez Perce Drive. I've lived in this area for 14 years and there's nothing like beating a dead horse. As you all know this has come up. It's now a city owned piece of property. I had engaged in a conversation with Loren approximately 2 weeks ago. I...quite disappointed in someone that comes in in 6 months and says, no picking of flowers signs. No screaming signs. My children play on the beach. They splash. They scream. They have a good time. The raft is city property. It's been moved on several occasions. It's been moved out farther again. I feel waterskiers might hit it. We're going to have an accident. Property values in 6 to 7 months don't depreciate $25,000.00. When you purchase a piece of property across from a public park, you can anticipate some noise. As far as the litter in that . park, it is the city's responsibility to pick up litter. There are trash barrels there. I go down there myself frequently. I don't find it anything close to what he just described. As a matter of fact it's quite an improvement. Carver County does an excellent job in this community and they do have more to do than take care of one resident. The solution may be solvable if one doesn't choose to live that close to the park. I think that the children in this community have a right to use the lake. I frequent both parks myself and found them to be maintained in very good condition compared to a lot of municipalities. As a matter of fact I'm very pleased with what I see. I question staff's time that they tend to waste on this issue because I'm starting to feel we really are beating a dead horse. Thank you. Andrews: Thank you. Anybody else please? Keith Gunderson: I'm Keith Gunderson. My wife Pat. We live at 6660 Lotus Trail. Sit here about 2 years ago and we offered a lot of alternatives to the plans of this park board to put docks, canoes, canoe racks and parking that would...North Lotus Beach. In the past 2 years we have been subjected to a dramatic increase of traffic. illegal parking on parkland. Parking on private property. Actually in front of my home. Constantly turning around in our driveways in the middle of the night. Turning around in my front yard. Waking up at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning and the banging of canoes off loading from the canoe racks. On 8 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 top of cars. Again, both in front of my home. There are cars ripping up the park grass when they go to turn around and I'm talking about in the middle of the night, spinning of tires and actually spinning around in circles. We have dead fish thrown on the park ground and left to rot and smell. Is it also...at the park? We have loud, noisy drinking. Broken glass. Garbage. Litter and the reason that this park looks good in this area is because we have concerned neighbors that walk this road, walk this area on a continuous basis and all the time picking stuff up. There are garbage cans in the area and we do thank the park board for that. But this is what we are subjected to every day. My wife and I walk our dog every morning and night. We see cars parked in this little parking area at 11:00, 12:00, 1:00 in the morning. No lights in the area and in this day and age, that's a little scary. That's the way I feel. All these concerns. All these problems that we addressed at the meeting 2 years ago. We talked to the Mayor. The board members. Mr. Hoffman. Everybody promised that there would be no problems down there. If there were, they'd be taken care of. None of this has happened. In the past 2 years again, we have called in numerous times to the city of Chanhassen to try to take care of the park. To keep it clean. Again, we have tried to pick the litter up all that we can. The weeds have just now been cut down I believe last weekend, otherwise they were getting up to 3 to 4 foot tall. They're noxious weeds in this area of the lake... They should be kept up...as much as possible. We've also called Carver County for cars illegally parked on the park. On my front yard. Sometimes they come. Sometimes they don't. You know again, they might have a call someplace else. We have called a number of times. When they do come down, we've never seen anybody write a ticket and all that does is promote the people to come back and park again. So tickets have to be written. If it's a problem with signage, different signs. Again, 3 years ago there was only about 2 people in the area that actually wanted all this stuff down at the park that I can remember wanting to get the canoe rack, the picnic table, everything down there and these people have moved away. They're gone... We have two new homeowners in the area now that live right in front of the area and they don't want the problem either... Neither does the rest of the neighborhood. I pay the interest of the taxpaying homeowners in the area, we would like to see the canoe rack, the dock, and the parking all removed and restored to it's original condition and reinforce the signs and make it a safer neighborhood. And I think that's not unreasonable because there are so many parks in the area and I'm here tonight to reinforce this. I want to get it on record because I know they're going to be...the Lotus Trail neighborhood one of these years and once that parking gets in, it's done. We're going to have to suffer with this for a long time. Right now there has been some said about the handicap parking. The handicap dock. Where are the regulations for this stuff? Where's the codes? What size is this parking supposed to be? Every handicapped parking stall area that I've ever been in, that I've ever seen, they are very, very wide. This road cannot handle this type of traffic. It is dangerous. It's not very safe and it's just not being. Pat Gunderson: When we brought this up to you originally and asked you about that 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . handicapped, you said well not all handicapped people are necessiarly to that sense but still there are regulations for handicapped parking. You can't be assured that a wheelchair victim is not going to come. Keith Gunderson: Thank you for your attention. Andrews: Thank you. Anybody else wishes to speak about this? I again ask you to keep your comments to 5 minutes or less please. Stan Cronister: Good evening...my name is Stan Cronister. I live at 6730 Lotus Trail. I've lived down there about 16 years and I appreciate what the city's done. You've got a very nice idea having a park down there. My question is, is there a liability for the city to have people swimming down there without a lifeguard? Andrews: I'd refer that to Todd. As far as liability, I don't believe there is with a posted unguarded beach. Hoffman: As far as liability, we have liability in any of our park operations. Stan Cronister: Okay. Until the last 2 years it's been used and utilized by many people in . that area. I think they've all been pretty well mannered and I don't know what's in the water or what's happened in the last couple years but the language has become almost unbearable. I live about 300 yards from this area and I can hear them. I know there's probably not a censor in the city that could go down there and manage this. I don't know what it's going to take but it's unreasonable and it's illegal. It's...behavior. Boisterous. Loud and foul. Worse of all foul. And I've been...and I've heard a lot of people swear in the service and all that but...and I don't think the young kids that are being raised down in that area need to listen to that. It's a bad example. I don't know what the city could do about it but I wish they'd address it. The beach in and of itself I think was started by the fellow that lived there many years named Rocky and the city for many years tried to get it taken out. They didn't want it to happen. Now the city's embraced it. I wish the city could look after the property a little bit better. As for the parking, it doesn't bother me as much as my neighbors down there but I'm sure it's a big issue. But if there was just some way we could manage the people who .. .. w r1 s. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . . Betsy Discher: My name's Betsy Discher and I live at 6728 Lotus Trail between Loren and Stan. A couple of years ago these improvements were proposed at the park. I had a discussion with Mr. Hoffman regarding some issues with regards to the Americans with Disabilities Act and I can appreciate the spirit in which I believe some of these improvements were made. It was represented to me during the course of that conversation that in fact there would be two handicapped parking spaces made available so that residents or non-residents of the city with disabilities who wished to use the public spaces...and I can certainly relate to that particular spirit as it was represented to me. It was also represented, or I think it was a little questionnaire that came around or whatever, what would you like to see you know. Here's what we're sort of proposing to do and on that was listed some play equipment and... would probably be very reasonable extension of the...just prior to that you had closed the public access and relocated it to Highway 101 again. Since that time, as everybody has said, we have seen a dramatic increase in the overall usage of the lake. Obviously when you have more parking spaces so people can park their boat trailers, you get more boats on the lake. I don't know if this is good or bad. From a noise standpoint it is certainly increasing the amount of boat traffic and the danger level on the lake. We have also seen a lot of increase in traffic and I don't need to reiterate...it's definitely there. We've got pretty large driveways going up to our house and we've had people parking in our driveway and turning around and peeling out and the whole thing. My particular issue, you know I'm in agreement with most of the folks on Lotus Trail that the amount of traffic that the park carries is excessive in...but I also have an issue that if you're real concerned about accessibility for persons wish disabilities, you've got a person with a disability living right across the street from the park who needs assistance to actually get on that beach because the beach is configured with rip rap rock and slants of the sand. So it would seem more appropriate to me, being directly adjacent to that beach, that maybe you might want to address some of those concerns since if there's going to be limited parking, access for parking's going to be primarily on foot. So I'd like to see the regular parking spaces gone. I think initially it was represented to us on Lotus Trail that there were only going to be 2 parking spaces. Both designated handicapped and I think that's what we agreed to. Obviously that's not the case. Thanks. Andrews: Anybody else? Debbie McRaith: Just really brief. Andrews: Yeah, I'd appreciate it if you'd keep it brief. We've got a very long agenda. Debbie McRaith: I'm going to be real brief. I'm Debbie McRaith and we live down on 6900 Lotus Trail, on the other side. On the south end of the beach. On that side and just a lot of these same concerns are happening down on that end of the beach also. Especially the after 10:00 p.m. people being at the park and that's the hardest I think of all of it to take. People . 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . being down there. We're a little bit farther away. You know the beach is down just a little bit away but we're, it's coming 1,lp a little later. The street light...still on the other end but I think it might, down on the one end and we just agree with a lot of the same things and we want people down there to enjoy it and make it a neighborhood park but it's just gotten out of control. Andrews: Thank you. Last call. Anybodyelse? Okay, very good. Let's just take it down the commissioners quickly. Any questions or comments you may have. We'll start with you Jane. Meger: I don't know where to begin. I see a lot of issues tying together that even aren't on our agenda from the parking. I'm wondering if this beach is maybe accessed a little bit more. I think we've talked about access to Lake Ann, one of our premiere beaches and are people avoiding going there because of the cost involved and going to some of these smaller beaches. I don't know if that's something to look at too. I, unfortunately wasn't able to join the rest of you this evening when you went and looked at the places so I'm interested in hearing your comments about the size and the parking access. I've seen a small illustration on it. It does seem like a fairly small beach for the parking and I guess I wasn't here 2 years ago when all of the discussion took place so I wasn't aware of the neighborhood input. I certainly have heard the concerns here today. I don't know what the answers are either. I'm sure we will need to spend a little bit more time discussing it. I don't know that we're going . to be able to come out with an answer just this evening saying do away with the parking but maybe looking at some type of an action plan. Some of the things starting with smaller and working our way up to see what actions will help to eliminate some of these problems. Huffman: The gentleman who was concerned about his property values and are we going to be concerned about that. Obviously we're always concerned about that. I speak as an individual. I will not guarantee your property will go up or down, because that's not our job because let the buyer beware in anything. If it goes up, that's good. If it goes down, that's life and we all want it to go up but I'm not prepared to sit here and say we're going to guarantee the value of your property. That's not our job. We can't guarantee the public people are going to ticket people. I did hear some concerns in here after 10:00. The vulgarity. Things of that. Those are concerns that we have as individuals of this board but also as parents. Those are real issues that we can address. I don't...take the parking out. I mean I wasn't here 2 years ago either but it looks like that park is going to be there. Now what are the things that we can do to help maintain that and make it well where we can all survive in that situation and there has to be a mutual spirit of working together here. Driving through that area today, there were also a couple things put up against on the other side of that park that I don't know who the individuals were but we'll have some discussion later with the city officials asking to plant some flowers or whatever and now dirt's going to roll 12 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 into that beautiful beach area. So I mean there has to be a spirit of working together on all sorts of different ways. The concerns of vulgarity on the beach are unacceptable. Kids screaming and hollering. I've got a 7 and 4 year old. Not acceptable. Keep calling. That's one thing you're going to have to do. You don't like it. I don't like it. I live down at Rice Marsh Lake. We go down there and we pick up garbage on the floor too because my kids go down there. Signage about littering and things of that nature, I don't know if we need to do more of that. I mean some specific things that we can do to help. And that's an excellent presentation. An excellent thing of 12 things of some of these things you can do but unless I'm mistaken, we're not taking the parking out. I mean there's a lot of things that we should be able to do together and I think what we need to do is concentrate on some of those things that we can do together. But let's go from there. Andrews: I was on the park board 2 years ago so I guess I'll have to take some of the responsibility for what was decided then. After driving down there tonight, I'm not sure that that small area can support the activity of 4 fully loaded cars with some kids. So I guess I would be in favor of reducing the amount of parking that would be available because I don't see this as a drive to destination for 50 people. I don't think that has the capacity to handle that many people. I do think it should be posted with some sort of a quiet zone or quiet hours and I guess the thing that would be most important here would be that enforcement has to be rigorous. If enforcement officials are coming to the area when there are cars illegally parked and not writing citations, I think that's wrong and I agree with the statement that was made that if citations are not written, you're encouraging further violations. I'd agree with that because that's human behavior. At the same time I'm very cautious here about saying we ought to have a park with no access. I think that parks belong to all citizens of the city and that people ought to have access to parks so I'm against eliminating parking but I do feel that perhaps restraining the capacity here at that edge of the park. There was a comment made about a prior agreement. I would encourage that if there's serious concern about some agreement being violated, that you consult old Minutes from old meetings and see for yourself what those agreements were, if any. What I fmd is that in most real estate transactions there's a lot of vague agreements that you think you heard or thought existed that really don't and if it's not on paper, and not legal, it's not going to stand up. And I'm a victim of that myself so I know what it's like. As far as some of the comments about people driving their vehicles to the beach, on the sand or on the grass and dumping their things off, there was a suggestion made that perhaps we could put some sort of a post or something across to prevent access to the beach itself. I think that might be a good idea. I don't think we need to have any signs about preventing kids. I think kids deserve to be there. Kids deserve to have fun. Yes, kids will make noise but I would rather have them making noise and having some fun on the lake than being, sitting around by their house trying to think about what other kinds of fun they could create and other kinds of mischief so I think it's what kids do. So that's where I stand on it. I guess at this point I'd be willing to support a 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . reduction in parking and more of a rigorous enforcement. Roeser: That's basically my idea too. I think we're going to have to talk to the Public Safety Department about this because there's been an awful lot of accusations hurled at them tonight about not showing up. Not writing tickets and I'd like to hear their side. I would like to sit down with them and maybe hear some suggestions they have for the beach. I don't think we can solve the problem tonight. It sounds like it's a little bigger than all of us and I think if we can get together maybe and have our own little short meeting some night and just talk about that, and have someone here from Public Safety. Resident: Are we...? Roeser: Well, I'm not sure. You'd certainly be informed, yes but we've heard your side of the story. We haven't heard the public. Resident: How many tickets have been issued down there? Roeser: We haven't heard from the public safety department ma'am. I would like to hear their side because when you just hear one side of the story from angry residents, you don't get the best picture in the world. I would like to hear both sides. . Resident: And you've got a lot of angry... Roeser: Yes we do. Yes we do have angry residents but we haven't heard any other side. I'd like to hear what, why if these tickets are not being written, why they're not being written. So I think we're going to have to devote some time just at some meeting to take care of this. To talk about it and I would like to invite the Public Safety Director here to fmd out why these things are going on and what we can do. Loren Veltkamp: Okay. Is that who you would talk to is the Director? Because when we talked to the officers that come down there and they say that they don't write the stuff. They say that it's a problem and they say, they come down here all the time. Roeser: Well perhaps they have some suggestions as to what to do about it so I'd like to hear their side of it. Resident: And when you do talk, can one of us be present? I mean we live down there. Andrews: We'll respond to this in just a moment here. Let me move on and then we'll have Todd respond a little bit about how we've handled similar situations in the past when we've 14 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 asked for more enforcement. Manders: I guess my comments are along the lines of what's already been expressed. It seems to me, from what I'm hearing, is that there is much more traffic than that area can support. It needs to be looked at. What we can do about it, suggestions about closing the beach to me are unacceptable. Residents: Nobody's asking to close the beach. Andrews: Could you let the commissioner member state his position. Manders: Other discussions about noise and kids. I'm single. I don't have any kids. I go to grocery stores. I go a lot of places and I hear this kind of stuff. Well sure you say, well you can walk away from it. You don't live right next to it but those problems are allover and I don't know what to do about it. To say kids can't go down there or to minimize the volume. Maybe that's part of the solution. I don't know. There's a lot of issues there. Andrews: Todd, could you respond to about the enforcement issues? Hoffman: The enforcement. We did have a request tonight from the Veltkamps to provide a record of police calls. I spoke with Scott Harr, Public Safety Director, who requested that list from Carver County. That they provide the City of Chanhassen's...You have that list... Veltkamp' s as well as the Rostad's at the other end of the beach. The two requestees or presenters this evening. As Mrs. Veltkamp eluded to, it goes back to January of 1993 through June 16th of this year. There are some calls and you can read through those. Commission members have that record which relate directly to Lotus Trail or to either of the two park sites. Again, this is their complete listing. There were certainly times that they received calls for that area and they do not respond with a report. They also did not... Andrews: Well what I propose that we do, and I guess I'll make a motion to take some action here. I would like to, at this moment request stricter enforcement directly, immediately to start. I would like to ask Mr. Harr to make himself available to us at our next meeting because I feel like this is a situation where if we don't come down hard on illegal parkers, it's never going to get any better. I think that's the level of action that I'd want to take at the immediate time. As far as reducing the amount of parking that's currently there, I would like to wait and see if the enforcement helps. If that does not, then I would like to see the parking reduced. That is my motion at this time. Hoffman: Again, any action taken this evening cannot be based off of a visitors presentation. You would have to formally schedule this item. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Andrews: Okay, then I would move that we would schedule this for a formal hearing on a future agenda. Is there a second to that? Huffman: I second. Andrews: Okay. Is there any discussion? Any comments from the audience, quickly please? Loren Veltkamp: Could you also bring up the issue of passing the no screaming rule down there? Andrews: I don't believe that's within our authority to do that We could recommend that the City Council consider controlling, what I consider inappropriate behavior and leave it open at that. Loren Veltkamp: You could put it on the sign there to remind people not to scream. Andrews: Well I mentioned the word Quiet Zone. I think that's probably appropriate being that the houses are quite close. I think that's about as reasonable as I can make it. Huffman: Are the kids, may I ask a question. When you notice the kids playing down there, are they all unsupervised? Are there no adults? There's no form of organization. Is this just . sort of Lord of the Flies type thing? Paula Veltkamp: Well there is some...daycare. They bring a van down and...they can just jump out of the van and get right on the beach and they'll have like 6 or 7 chairs...and there is a drop off on that lake and then kids are screaming. And then there's probably at times several daycares down there. Loren Veltkamp: The general situation during the day is you have 2, 3, 4 women in lawn chairs with a cooler and they're talking amongst themselves and the kids are playing in the lake you know 20 feet away. The women are kind of talking and the kids are out playing you know and that kid could slip on the lily pad and float away and I don't know if they'd even notice to be honest Andrews: There's been, we've got a motion made and seconded. We need to move on to be honest. Andrews moved, Huffman seconded to put the issue of the Carver Beach mini park at a future Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. 16 . _RESENT A TION TO CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMITTEE REASON FOR PRESENT A TION - Have Carver Beach neighborhood be safe, quiet and enjoyable place to live. - Have Carver Beach be a safe park for neighbors to enjoy. PROBLEM Development of Carver mini beach area with parking, docks, raft and buoys has caused problems for the Lotus Trail residence. - Problems with overcrowding - Problem with noise - Issues of personal safety . - Problems with litter PROPOSALS 1. Eliminate parking 2. Remove dock and raft 3. Impose fine for littering REASON FOR PROPOSALS - Protect lake quality - Protect land values near lake - Protect families in neighborhood . PRESENT A TION TO CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMITTEE . ( continued) PROBLEM 1 Parking at Carver mini beach. PROPOSAL 1 Eliminate parking REASON FOR PROPOSAL 1. Overcrowding 2. Illegally parked cars 3. Parking not enforced 4. Noise from cars 5. Noise from people . 6. City's liability 7. Sanitation 8. People violate vehicle safety laws 9. Safety of residence 10. Litter 11. Pollution 12. Other parks in area with better facilities in parking 13. Why us ---- and not Greenwood Shores? . . PRESENTATION TO CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMITTEE ( continued) LAKE ANN PARK SIZE 10 I total acres 429 total parking spaces beach is 60' X 90' beach parking - 64 spaces AMENITIES Sanitation - running water for toilets, sinks, and drinking Safety - up to 5 lifeguards Conveniences - has refreshment stand GREENWOOD SHORES on LAKE ANN . SIZE beach is 35' X 70' 3.3 total acres no parking OTHER FEATURES Lake Ann doesn't allow motorized vehicles road is paved road is normal two lanes neighborhood is less crowded than at Carver Mini Beach CARVER MINI BEACH SIZE beach is 28' X 70' 35' (approx.) of grass between road and lake bl?Q.c..(.... :jldy~l'~ - Y 1"0 I" LIABILITIES . on narrow dirt road PRESENT A TION TO CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMITTEE ( continued) PROBLEM 2 Raft and buoys PROPOSAL 2 Eliminate raft and buoys or move to larger Carver Beach REASON FOR PROPOSAL 1. Kids yelling obscenities, F... this and F... that on the raft. 2. Noise from kids screaming to friends from shore. 3. Shrill screaming of 5 - 10 kids pushing each other off raft. 4. As city expands around us, more and more kids will be coming to beach. 5. Buoys are ugly to look at. 6. Boaters ignore buoys. . . . ~RESENT A TION TO CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMITTEE . (continued) PROBLEM 3 Littering throughout park PROPOSAL 3 Impose strict fine for litter REASON FOR PROPOSAL 1. Trash dumped all over park - bottles, cans, plastic toys, dirty diapers, plastic containers, etc. 2. In winter with ice fishing - trash left all over lake. . . vi I T ur CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 . (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission ;;{ FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director DATE: June 23, 1994 SUB}: Police Calls to Lotus Lake TraiVCarver Beach Park Area The Park and Recreation Commission requested a record of police calls for the area of Carver Beach Park to assist in reviewing the request for a street light at the south parking lot. Ms. Paula Veltkamp, 6774 Lotus Trail also requested that this information be made available to the commission to assist in your review of the Veltkamp's concerns being discussed under Visitor Presentations. 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Z Z Z Z ;0 ..: .. .. ..J ..J .. ..! t: .. .. ..: ~ .. .. ~ .. "- ~ E :< ... e "" " E r- ... ~ E <: ... , ~ ~ 1 . ~ <: ~ c "' <: '- , .. Q ':" .... " '" - ;L - ... ..- '" ... " Q ,:;> .... Q: a . c. ,Cl ... .. , . . . Chanhassen PubliC safety FOLLOW UP fiPOlLV Complainant: La t lr", 1I~ if tl.l.~p Address: t77LI. Lot-v5 r,.. Ck~k...c::."::>~, M,v - ("') := z, ? CONTINUATION Date of Incident: lb' 22 JILf ,J Offense: r~,- 1'.1""'1 Date of Report: {. '7 '2 - H . . - On 06-22-94, at 1321 hours, I was directed by Carver County Dispatch to . respond to Lotus Trail, Chanhassen, MN, for a parking and loud party -. .. . -- complaint. .. .--. . .-. -.- Upon arrival, accompanied by Public Safety Director Scott Harr, I observed four vehicles parked legally in the allotted spaces by the beach on Lotus Lake nearest to the address of 6774 Lotus Trail, Chanhassen, MN. I also saw approximately ten children between the ages of six (6) and ten (10) years of age swimming in the beach area; the children were being supervised by two adults. I was not able to hear any noise from the beach area that would be considered a violation of City Code. Nor were there any violations with the vehi~les .. .. parked along Lotus Trail. I contacted the complainant, Mr. Loren Ve*kamp, 6774 Lotus Trail, Chanhassen, MN, by phone. I advised him that I drove through the area, but did not observe any violations. Mr. Ve~kamp responded that the parking violations ~d noise from the beach-------- had been on-going all summer, and he wanted it to stop. ladvised him..thaLiL - - ----- there were no violations, nothing could be done. --- ._-_. -- -- . I cleared the call at 1340 hours. UNFOUNDED . Steven Winters, #2764' Chanhassen Public Safety - -~ ;l, !J:1~-_.~ . Reporting Officer . .. . /~-/.2r C ITV OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 March 22, 1994 Mr. Loren Veltkamp 6724 Lotus Trail Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Mr. Veltkamp: This letter is in response to your inquiry regarding the possibility of purchasing a portion of lakeshore within Carver Beach Park. I would ftrst like to reconfmn that this land is not for sale, and it is my distinct opinion that both the City's Park and Recreation Commission and City Council will uphold this position. In addition, it is my opinion that the covenants which bind the original land transfer from the Carver Beach Association to the City of Chanhassen forbid the sale of said lands. If you wish to pursue your inquiry further you may contact the City' s Park and Recreation Commission Chairperson, c/o City Hall, 690 Coulter Drive, Chanhassen, MN 55317. The organizational chart we discussed is attached for your information. If you are in need of additional information, you may contact me at 937-1900, extension 121. Si~# Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director TH:nls p.c. Park and Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager ~ .t /?/7-/;Z:/ C I TY'''O F CHANHASSEN /e-;C r . if . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN. MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager -/ FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: August 18, 1992 SUBJ: Carver Beach Park Vehicle Parking ., ~" The concern over the lack of accessibility via motor vehicles to the northerly portion of Carver Beach Park was initially brought to the Park and. Recreation Commission's attention on May 19, 1992. A person or persons in a vehicle can OpviOllSly drive by the park; however, the absence of a legal parking area prohibits access to and!';use of. this park when arriving by motor vehicle. The Park and Recreation Commission co~~iicted a',isite visit on May 19, prior to formally . addressing this item. The report presenteg.'to the Co~ssion that evening and the resulting minutes are attached. As can be seen, th~'Commissio~'flected to table the item and to call for a neighborhood meeting on June 23 to altow for resident' input on the issue. The report prepared for the Commission and the residents in the area and the resulting minutes are attached. Residents attending the meeting that evening were Mr. & Mrs. Gunderson (Keith and Pat), 6660 Lotus Trail, and Mr. Roger Byrne, 6724 Lotus Trail. Both the Gundersons and Mr. Byrne addressed the Commission and me that evening. Upon conclusion of the discussion, the following motion was approved for recommendation to the City Council: .~ ~'~ Schroers moved,'Koubsky seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the City Council approve the construction and signage of four parallel parking spaces covering 60 feet on the south side of Lotus Trail for Carver Beach Park, with one of the four. spaces for persons with disabilities as specified and shown on the attached maps, and that the Planning and Engineering Departments take a very close and careful look to ensure that there is no damage done to any existing trees in the area. All vote(infavor except Lash who opposed, and Andrews who abstained. The motion carried with a vote of 4-2. ~T As you are aware, in scheduling this item for Council review, it was determined that the Commission's recommendation was routine and conformed with the approved Park Master Plan for this area of Carver Beach Park. As such, the item was included as an informational item dated July 9, 1992, in the administrative section of the July 27 City Council packet (attached). . n t. J PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER ~ . . . .t ,.f Mr. Don Ashworth August 18, 1992 Page 2 Upon receiving no comments on this item, staff was prepared to begin planning for the signage needs to designate the four parking spots. Prior to commencing this action, however, I received a call from Mrs. Pat Gunderson. The results of this conversation are detailed in the attached memo to the Park and Recreation Commission dated August 4, and presented to the Commission on August 11. The resulting action taken by the Commission that evening was to rescind their previous recommendation of June 23, 1992, and to instead make the following recommendation: The Park and Recreation Commission recommends the construction and signage of three parallel parking spaces on the south side of Lotus Trail at Carver Beach Park consistent with the Park's Master Plan, one of the three for persons with handicaps, and that this project be carried out with the assurance that no damage will be done to any existing trees in the area. This motion was made by Commissioner Lash and seconded by Commissioner Erickson with all voting in favor. A IT ACHMENTS 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. Memo to Park and Recreation Commission dated May 15, 1992. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated May 19, 1992. Memo to Park and Recreation Commission dated June 10, 1992. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated June 23, 1992. Memo to Don Ashworth, City Manager dated July 9, 1992. Memo to Park and Recreation Commission dated August 4, 1992. ,f r-/ CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 24, 1992 . Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. MEMBERS PRESENT: Hayor Chmiel, Councilman Hason, Councilman Workman, Councilman Wing and Councilwoman Dimler STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Todd Hoffman, Jo Ann Olsen, Kate Aanenson, Sharmin AI-Jaff, Scott Harr and Charles Folch APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Wing moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Councilman Workman: I was just upstairs, and I don't know how well it was publicized. That's why I want to make sure that it gets publicized so people have time. We discussed at 6:30 tonight that the stop signalization of West 78th Street and so it's a rather important meeting. We're going to have the second and final one in September 14th. Courtyard room just like we did tonight before the Council meeting. Last chance. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I think probably a lot of people have missed it. . Councilman Wing: Including me. I wasn't notified. Mayor Chmiel: You and I both. And if need be, with one that was tonight and I see there was about 2 people present outside of Council. We may have to take this on a 3 run stint. Haybe have two afterwards but we'll see what happens on the next one. Any other? If hearing none, we'll move right along with the agenda. CONSENT AGENDA: Council.an Work.an .oved, Council.an Mason seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda ite.s pursuant to the City Manager's reco..endations: a. Wetland Alteration Permit for Alteration within 200 feet of a Wetland, 7201 Juniper Avenue, Greg Datillo. b. Wetland Alteration Permit for a Right Turn L~ne Adjacent to a Wetland, Cheyenne Trail and Highway 101, City of Chanhassen. ~&~ d. Carver Beach Park Vehicle Parking. e. Resolution J92-93: Resolution Approving Membership in the Southwest Drug Task Force for 1993. 1 . . r- z <( u :J a. a. <( . ~ ~ LLJ r- - (J) . PRC DATE: 7-26-94 PC DATE: 8-3-94 CC DATE: 8-22-94 3 CITY OF CHANHASSEN HOFFMAN:k STAFF REPORT PROPOSAL: Preliminary Plat to subdivide 46.5 acres into 36 rural single family lots and one outlot, Halla's Great Plains Golf Estates LOCATION: South of County Road 14 (pioneer Trail) and west and east of Highway 101 (Great Plains Boulevard) APPLICANT: Donald Halla 10095 Great Plains Blvd. Chaska, MN 55318 Roger A. Anderson 7415 Wayzata Blvd., Suite 107 Minneapolis, MN 55426 PRESENT ZONING: A2, Agricultural Estate ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: N . A2, Agricultural Estate and RR, Rural Residential S - A2, Agricultural Estate E - RR, Rural Residential W - A2, Agricultural Estate COMPREHENSIVE PARK PLAN: This site does not lie within the park service area of any city park. The closest access to a park is approximately 3/4 miles to either Bandimere Park or the future access to the Bluff Creek trail. COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN: The Comprehensive Trail Plan identifies future trails along both Pioneer Trail and Highway 101. Both of these trails are becoming increasingly important as development continues to add new destinations in this area of the city, Le. new high school to be located on Pioneer Trail, trail connections to Eden Prairie, and the new Hennepin Parks Southwest Regional Trail. Halla's Great Plains Golf Estates July 26, 1994 Page 2 . BACKGROUND The easterly portion of this proposed plat, the 30+ acres south of Pioneer Trail and east of Highway 101, has been considered as possible parkland. Specifically, the commission is considering the merits of acquiring this property for future development an athletic field complex. A similar complex which comes to mind is Dred Scott Field in Bloomington. During the commission's search to identify future parklands in Chanhassen, this corner was identified as one possible location for ballfield use. The Park Acquisition and Development budget; however, does not allow the commission to court every owner of property the city would like to acquire. We are more often than not forced to play a waiting game, trying to outlast development, while acquiring property in a prioritized fashion. Once again the commission is faced with these circumstances. Mr. Halla has shown his interest in developing his property by filing a preliminary plat with the city. We have two alternatives, allow the plat to be processed or initiate negotiations to acquire the property. RECOMMENDATION The Park and Recreation Commission will be meeting to discuss, among other things, the potential of a future open space referendum on August 9, 1994. It is recommended that the commission table this item until that evening allowing sufficient opportunity for commission members to review the consequences of their actions. . . I- Z <t LOCATION: () ::J !L APPLICANT: CL <( . ~ ~ W I- - en . CITY 0 F CHANHASSEN 4 PRC DATE: 7-26-94 PC DATE: 8-3-94 CC DATE: 8-22-94 - HOFFMAN:k STAFF REPORT PROPOSAL: Request to Rezone 37.92 acres of property zoned RR, Rural Residential to RSF, Residential Single Family; Preliminary Plat to subdivide 37.92 acres into 52 single family lots; and a Wetland Alteration Permit, Shamrock Ridge Located at the intersection of Galpin Boulevard and proposed Lake Lucy Road Extension Ed and Mary Ryan 6730 Galpin Boulevard Excelsior, MN 55331 Charles Plowe, Consulting Engineer 9180 Lexington Ave. NE Circle Pines, MN 55014 PRESENT ZONING: RR, Rural Residential ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: N . RR, Rural Residential S - RR, Rural Residential E - RR, Rural Residential W - RR, Rural Residential COMPREHENSIVE PARK PLAN: The Recreation Section of the City's Comprehensive Plan identifies this siteO as lying within the park service areas of Pheasant Hill Neighborhood Park, the Minnetonka Intermediate School Campus, and the park site (Stockdale) being considered south of the site along Galpin Boulevard. COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN: This site borders the western edge of Galpin Boulevard which is identified as a trail corridor on the City's Comprehensive Trail Plan. The proposed plat will require an extension of Lake Lucy Road which will also renuire a nedestrian si . .. tmil tn hP.' I 11 . to this corridor. Shamrock Ridge July 26, 1994 Page 2 RECOMMENDA TION It is recommended that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the City Council require the following conditions of approval in regard to park and trails for the Shamrock Ridge plat: 1. Full park fees be collected per city ordinance. 2. An 8 ft. bituminous trail be constructed parallel to Lake Lucy Road. This construction to be incorporated into the Lake Lucy Road Extension Project. The developer shall be reimbursed for the cost of said trail from the city's trail fund. 3. Sufficient county road right-of-way/easements be maintained along County Road 117 (Galpin Boulevard) to accommodate possible future trail construction. ATTACHMENT 1. Site Map, Preliminary Plat . . . . . . CITY OF CHINHISSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: -d Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director DATE: June 22, 1994 SUBJ: 1995 Park Acquisition and Development Program (CIP) Work Session What would commissioners like to accomplish in 1995? A draft copy of the department's 5 year CIP is attached to assist you in developing your plans for 1995. Chairperson Andrews will lead the commission through a brainstorming session to facilitate this discussion. s CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Note: As instructed by the Commission, I have noted the Improvements which have been completed or are scheduled for completion by bolding the dollar figure associated with the Improvement. Those figures which have been Italicized are on hold or have been deleted from the CIP. Figures do not represent exact expenditures. Edited July 20, 1993 Edited June 23, 1994 . . . . I . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Bandimere Community Park Address: 9405 Great Plains Blvd (TH 101) Acres: 30 Class: Community Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 I.D. Sign 400.00 . TOTALS 400.00 Notes: Concept Master Park Plan prepared in 1989. . 2 i . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Bandimere Heights Park Address: 9290 Kiowa Trail Acres: 3 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Wood Park 10 Sign 200. Play Area .00 .00 .00 8,000. Refurbishment Swings 1500.00 TOTALS: 200. 1500.00 .00 .00 8,000. . Notes: Extensive regrading and site work was initiated in the fall of 1991. Work to be completed in 1992. 3 . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Address: Acres: Class: Bluff Creek Park Hesse Farm Road 21 Open Space Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 .00 .00 .00 .00 .00 TOTALS: .00 .00 .00 .00 .00 Notes: To be incorporated into the Bluff Creek Preservation zone. 4 FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM . Park Name: Carver Beach Park Address: 6891 Lotus Trail Acres: 8 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Play Area 2,200. Refurbishment Grills(2) 400. Picnic Tables(2) 1 ,300. Swimming Bouy's 1 ,500. & Signage (Main Beach) Park Benches 2,000. TOTALS: 2,200. 3,200. .00 2,000. . Notes: 5 . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Carver Beach Playground Address: 900 Carver Beach Road Acres: 3 Class: Neighborhood Imorovements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Wood Park ID Sign 200. Replacement of Swing 950. Add'n of Two Spring 1,000. Animals Bleacher 1400. Skating Rink Electrical Service with Light Board Wood & Pea 1,400. Gravel New Backstop 1,200. TOTALS: 3,550. 1 ,400. .00 .00 1,200. Notes: 6 FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Chanhassen Estates Mini Park Address: 55 Lake Drive East Acres: 1 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Wood Park ID Sign 200. Picnic Tables(3) Basketball Court 2,500. Play Area .00 TOTALS: 200. .00 2,500. .00 Notes: ., . . . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Chanhassen Hills Park Address: 8579 Chanhassen Hills Drive South Acres: 8 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Wood Park ID Sign 250. Construction of a 1,500. Ballfield Basketball Half Court 2,500. Trees 1,000. Play Area Expansion 13,000. TOTALS: 1,750. 3,500. .00 13,000. .00 Notes: 8 . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Chanhassen Pond Park Address: 7500 Laredo Drive Acres: 16 Class: Open Space Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Wood Park ID Sign 200. Wheel Chair 500. Accessable Picnic Table Picnic Table 450. Wood Park ID Sign 250. Replace Stairs .00 .00 4,000. Repair Observation *2000. Platform TOTALS: 1,150. 2250. .00 .00 4,000. . Notes: * Removed with no intentions to replace. ! . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: City Center Park Address: 710 Coulter Drive Acres: 10 Class: Community . Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Play Area Expansion (50% share) New Basketball Poles and Standards Play Area Expansion (50% Share) Sealcoating 4,000. TOTALS: .00 .00 4,000. .00 .00 Notes: Configuration of park is subject to change dependent on the outcome of Central Park Master plans. . 1~ FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Curry Farms Park Address: 1300 Stratton Court Acres: 6 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Wood Park ID Sign 200. Trees 500. Swing Set 1500. Play Area Expansion 5,000. TOTALS: 200. 2000. .00 5000. 500 Notes: 11 . . . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Greenwood Shores Park Address: 7110 Utica Lane Acres: 4 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Grills (2) 400. TOTALS: .00 400. .00 .00 .00 Notes: Discussion included possibility of installing a sand volleyball court. Site constrictons make this installation prohibitive. 1"2 FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM . Park Name: Herman Field Park Address: 2591 Forest Avenue Acres: 13 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1 st Phase Play Area *13,000. with Border Wood/Pea Gravel Superdeck *6,000. Boardwalk Picnic Tables & Play * 1,500. Area Bench Single Tennis Court 20,000. with Basketball Hoop Play Area Expansion Beyond 1996 Wood Park 1.0. Sign 200. TOTALS: 20,500. 200. .00 20,000. . Notes: *These improvements are scheduled to be completed in 1993. 1"3 . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Lake Ann Park Address: 1456 Arboretum Blvd (Hwy. 5) Acres: 98 Class: Community Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 SHELTER First Aid supplies 400. Lifeguard Room Equipment 1,500. Rescue Board SOO. Cash Register 150. Freezer 400. Refrigerator SOO. Microwave 300. Menu Boards 300. Building Supplies & 3,000. Equipment Row Boats(2) 1,300. Canoes (3) 1,200. Paddle Boats (4) 1,650. Life Jackets (20) SOO. Canoe Paddles (10) 200. Play-aks (6) 1,800. Play-ak Paddles (8) 200. Outboard Motor 750. Shelter Landscaping 1,500. Boundary Buoys 1,300. SUBTOTAL: 150. 17,300. 1"4 GENERAL 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Drainage Improvements, 1,000. Field #6 Supplies for Conversion of 500. Field #2 to Little League Fencing 2,200. Picnic Shelter (Parkview) 50,000. Ballfield Restroom & Beyond 1996 Concession Building Trees 1,000. 3,000. Contingency 1,200. 2,500. Dock 2,500. SUBTOTAL: 3,700. .00 .00 .00 50,000. GRAND TOTAL: 3,850. 19,500. 8,000. .00 50,000. Notes: Lake Ann Park is entering a stage of final transformation to a "full service" community park. The installation of services, Le. phone, electric, sewer, water will allow the future construction of a group reservation picnic shelter at the parkview area, the construction of a serviceable shelter at the ballfields, and other improvements. 1'5 . . . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Lake Susan Park Address: 903 Lake Drive East Acres: 27 Class: Community Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Trail Line to 21,000. Chanhassen Hills Aeration system Installation Track Ride 2,000. Ballfield Lights 65,000. Archery Range Targets 300. TOTALS: 21,300. 65,000. 2,000. .00 .00 Notes: 1"6 . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Meadow Green Park Address: 921 Pontiac Lane Acres: 18 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Installation of Trees 400. Bleacher 1 ,400. Skating Rink Electrical Service With Light Play Area 20,000. Refurbishment TOTALS: 400. 1 ,400. .00 .00 20,000. . Notes: 1-7 . I . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Minnewashta Heights Park Address: 6220 Dogwood Avenue Acres: 2 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Play Area Expansion *3,000. Skating Rink Electrical Service w/Light Play Area 7,000. .00 Refurbishment TOTALS: 3,000. .00 .00 7,000. .00 Notes: * This expansion is being completed in 1993. 1'8 FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: North Lotus Lake Park Address: 295 Pleasant View Road Acres: 18 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Skating Rink Electrical 8,000. Service w/Lights Hockey Rink with 25,000. Lights Play Area Expansion 12,000. Trees 1 ,000. TOTALS: .00 1 ,000. 20,000. 25,000. .00 Notes: Additional wind screen plantings for the tennis courts will occur in 1992. 1"9 . . . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Pheasant Hill Park Address: 1720 Lake Lucy Lane Acres: 11 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Engineering, surveying, * 10,000.00 Staking, Grading, Surfacing, & Site Preparation Associated with Initial Phase of Construction Play Area 20,000.00 Picnic Tables 3,000.00 Park Benches 1,600.00 Double Tennis Court Beyond with Basketball Hoops 1996 Play Area Expansion Beyond 1996 TOTALS: 10,000.00 .00 24,600.00 .00 .00 Notes: Park Master Plan approved in 1991. *Carried over into 1993 20 FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM . Park Name: Power Hill Park Address: Flamingo Drive Acres: 18 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 General Improvements, 15,000.00 Final Grading, Seeding Entrance Road & Parking Play Area 2,000.00 18,000.00 Trees Picnic Shelter Beyond 1996 TOTALS: .00 15,000.00 2,000.00 18,000.00 .00 . Notes: Boundary of this park is being defined through the development of the 7th and 8th addition of Lake Susan Hills West. New homes are currently being constructed on the eastern border of the park. 21 . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Prairie Knoll Park Address: 1124 Dove Court I Acres: 4 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Site Preparation Play Area 10,000.00 TOTALS: .00 .00 .00 .00 10,000.00 . Notes: The access trail to Prairie Knoll Park from Dove Court will be installed by the developer to the rear of the lots which it bisects. i . 22 FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Rice Marsh Lake Park Address: 8119 Erie Circle Acres: 30 (90% wetland) Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Play Area Expansion 4,000.00 P lay Area 7,000.00 Refurbishment Picnic Shelter Beyond Replacement 1996 TOTALS: 4,000.00 .00 .00 .00 7,000.00 Notes: 23 . . . . . . FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: South Lotus Lake Park Address: 7610 South Shore Acres: 7 Class: Community Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Unsurmountable Curbing Play Area Expansion 14,000.00 TOTALS: .00 .00 .00 '.00 14,000.00 . Notes: . 24 FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Park Name: Sunset Ridge Park Address: 1364 Lake Susan Hills Drive Acres: 10 Class: Neighborhood Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Installation of Trees 800.00 Trees 1,000.00 Play Area Expansion 14,000.00 TOTALS: 800.00 15,000.00 .00 .00 Notes: 25 . . . . . . OTHER IMPROVEMENTS Improvements 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 Park Rules Signs 3,500. Picnic Tables, Benches 3,000. 4,000. Spectator Seating, Signage Boy Scout Project 1,000. 500. Tree Farm 200. Contingency 1,000. 9,500 10,000 TOTALS: 7,700. 10,500 14,500 26 . CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM TOTALS YEAR AMOUNT 1992 $ 80,950.00 (Budgeted $145,000) 1993 $150,250.00 . 1994 $ 120,600.00 1995 $ 93,000.00 1996 $116,700.00 ~7 . I I · I ' . . . FUND 410 RESERVES General Fund Reserve $100,000.00 $150,000.00 $ 8,000.00 Land Acquisition, West of Lake Minnewashta City Center Park (for the purpose of matching School District #112 Funds invested in City Center Park/Chanhassen Elementary School Playground) Highway 101 Trail $ 15,000.00 $ 15,000.00 $ 288,000.00 New School Site Furnishing Total Required Reserve 26 ~ . . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN b~ 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director FROM: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor Michelle Braun, Recreation Intern R~' DATE: July 21, 1994 SUBJ: Fourth of July Celebration Evaluation SATURDAY. JULY 2 Horse Rides: Worked out great again this year. Had rides in hockey rinks--worked good because of the confined area. Lines were long again. Had 5-6 horses. Entertainment: This year we .11ired two face painters. Next year we ~ll hire at least 3-4 to reduce the long lines. The caticatuteattist.asbusY~.butl'W()uld like to look for alternatives next Water Wars: Water Wars was a big hit at the from 3:00 to 10:00 p.m. and had Wars was great to work with and I dance. Water Wars operated lines. Natalie Woog from Water definitely have them back again. Trade Fair: Twenty-eight businesses and special interest groups participated this year. It was a big help having the chamber set up/take down their own tables. A 40' x 60' tent was t ~ . . . Mr. Todd Hoffman July 21, 1994 Page 3 Softball Tournament: Four teams from the Men's Open League participated. Co-Rec didn't go. Open the tournament up to teams outside the Chanhassen area. MONDAY. JULY 4 Kid's Fisbin2 Festival: 120 kids registered. Have boundaries from the boat rental dock to the fishing pier. Look to expand maximum numbers. Sand Sculoture: This contest is becoming more and more popular. We had a lot of great entries this year. Prizes and ribbons for every participant. Treasure Hunt: Always fun. Playground staff had really creative clues and did a great job. They will do it again next year. Windsurfin2: People appeared to enjoy this attraction on the beach. Family Games: Keep to one hour. Keep at beach area. Were well-attended. Canoe Races: Cancelled due to rain. Hula Hooo and Limbo Contest: Went well. Prizes for everyone. Mr. Todd Hoffman July 21, 1994 Page 4 Inner Tube Relays: Participants enjoyed. Offer again. Prizes for everyone. Music in the Park: Fyder and Everhart have a following. People enjoyed their easy listening music. I would definitely have them back. Fireworks: Location on the trail between Greenwood Shores and Lake Ann worked out great. We need to make sure that people don't sneak through the barricades. Have signs posted again and indicate trail closings again in the schedule of events. Radios worked out great again. Keep the show at $10,000 at least. , . . . . CITY OF CHARHASSER 0b - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor DATE: Septemberfest Celebration SUBJ: July 21, 1994 The 1994 Septemberfest celebration is just aro undergoing a bit of change, the following is a planning. We have decided to steer away fro Harvest/Farm/Country idea. . - Farmers Market - Bake Sale - Bingo - Food - Hayrides - Petting Zoo - Pony Rides - Milking Demons - Flea Mark - Hot Air - Raftl - Childre - Needle in the . the comer and because the theme is f activities under consideration for erman theme and move more into the - Games - Moonwalk - Info Booth, 4H, Pheasants Forever, Scouts Trout Pond Classic Car Show i-athalon (Bike, Run/Walk) iggest Pumpkin Contest n Dance ving Musicians , es s . ng Demonstrations . CITY OF CHAHHASSEH ~C!- / -- 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director FROM: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor 1~ DATE: July 21, 1994 SUBJ: Lake Ann Park Parking Revenue June 1994 n Commission informed about the Lake ,bers listed below represent the revenue of June 1993. In an effort to keep you and the Park and Re Ann gate revenues, I developed this report. totals from the end of June 1994 compared . $10,37 June 1993 25.29 The total revenue for 1993, excludit:&. e softball team confident that Lake Ann parking 'enue will be higher related to nicer summer weath d increased picnic rese evaluation at the end of th r with complete revenue ses, was $14,947.00. I am very last year which is directly tions. I will prepare a full tals. . . CITY OF CHARHASSER (,e-l. .....- , I~ 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director FROM: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor DATE: July 21, 1994 SUBJ: Picnic Revenues Report . Just an update for you regarding picnic revenue 77 picnics have been booked. In comparing re should have no trouble reaching my goal of $ revenues totaled $1,901.30. Revenue for this Picnic calls are still coming daily. t Lake Ann and Lake Susan. As of today e totals from last year to this year, we At the end of June last year, picnic of the end of June, is at $3,749.13. . 07/21/94 CITY '" CHARHASSEN FACILITY: SCHEDULE TIME: 01:13 pm PAGE: 1 '" Report Criteria: Fac1.Detai1ed: Current Group Group: "ALL GRPS" . Current Group Facility: Date Scheduled Group: "ALL GllPS" 11 Between "01/01/94" and "11101194" . DATE FACILITY STAR!' END NAME CONTACT MAIN PHONE 0'1'BER PHONE _____ ._.........=.. __.... ____ _____.._______ .__...._______.. _____._a_ __.......... 05/21/94 LAKE SUSAN 01:00 pm 09:00 pm CUB TROOP PACK 342 STEVE DYLOR (000) 921-8671 (000) 000-0000 05/22/94 LAKE SUSAN 01:00 pm 08:00 pm ltIRT DUNION DEBRA ltIRT (000) 949-2037 (000) 000-0000 05/24/94 PARKVIEW 09:00 am 03:00 pm NORWOOD\YOUNG AMERICA HIG MARIANNE HARMS (000) 467-2272 (000) 000-0000 05/26/94 PARKVIEW 08:00 am 04:00 pm NORTHWEST TECH INSTITUTE CHRIS VOCELltA (000) 000-0000 (000) 000-0000 06/02/94 PARKVIEW 04:00 pm 09:00 pm EARLY CHILDHOOD CENTER LAURIE PASSE (000) 443-2303 (000) 000-0000 10:30 am 12:30 pm ST. JOHN'S THE BAPTIST SALLY LUDNS (000) 474-5812 (000) 000-0000 . 06/03/94 LAKESIDE 06/05/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 10:00 am 10:00 pm CARGIL ~G LISA FILIATRAULT (000) 742-3153 (000) 000-0000 06/10/94 CONCESSION 12:00 pm 03:00 pm CBAS1tA MIDDLE SCHOOL JON MEILD 06/10/94 LAKE SUSAN 09:30 am 03:00 pm CHARHASSEN ELEMElITARY CINDY PATTERSON 06/11194 LAKE SUSAN 12:00 pm 07:00 pm CBANBASSEN MEDICAL JLDQ MARY MILLER 06/11/94 LADSIDE 03:30 pm 07:00 pm CUB SCOUT PACK 428 ILAID TAGcaTZ 06/11/94 PARKVIEW 09:00 am 05:00 pm WOODLAND BILLS BIBLE CBUR MAOOIE PAID 06/12/94 LAKE SUSAN 10:00 am 08:00 pm GOEMAN PICNIC JULIE GOEMAN (000) 448-8700 (000) 000-0000 (000) 934-5246 (000) 000-0000 (000) 934-0570 (000) 000-0000 (000) 934-4023 (000) 000-0000 (000) 474-7792 (000) 000-0000 (000) 368-9594 (000) 000-0000 . 07/21/94 CITY '" CBANBASSEN FACILITY: SCHEDULE TIME: 01:13 pm PAlJE: 2 DATE FACILITY START END NAME CONTACT MAIN PHONE 0'l'BBR PJK)NE ........ ......-........ .------- -------- ...------....--.......... ................--------. ............-. --------...... \ 06/18/94 LAKE SUSAN 12:00 pm 10:00 pm BAINES, HEATHER BEATBER BAINES (000) 474-7768 (000) 000-0000 ~9/94 LAKESIDE 10:00 am 05:00 pm PAX CHRISTI CHURCH 06/19/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 10:00 am 05:00 pm PAX CHRISTI CHURCB RACHEL ROEll (000) 937-7281 (000) 000-0000 RACHEL ROEN (000) 937-7281 (000) 000-0000 06/22/94 LAKE SUSAN 11:00 am 02:30 pm WING DINGS DAWN LEMME (000) 000-0000 (000) 000-0000 06/25/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 10:00 am 08:00 pm TRANSITION ENGINEERING MARGIE NICHOLS (000) 941-7600 (000) 000-0000 06/26/94 LAKESIDE 10:00 am 03:00 pm FARRSWORrB PICNIC 06/26/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 02:00 pm 06:00 pm BLOM BIRrBDAY PARTY OOUG FARRSWORrB (000) 934-3000 (000) 000-0000 STEVER BLOM (000) 474-9649 (000) 000-0000 06/29/94 LAKE SUSAN 11:00 am 02:30 pm WING DINGS DAWN LEMME (000) 000-0000 (000) 000-0000 07/05/94 LAKE SUSAN . 11:00 am 07:00 pm OLYMPIC BILLS GOLF CLUB ANGIE BEMSWORrB (000) 941-6262 (000) 000-0000 07/06/94 LAKE SUSAN 11:00 am 01:30 pm CITY OF CBARBASSEN STEVE laRCIlMAIII (000) 937-1900 (000) 000-0000 07/07/94 LAKE SUSAN 03:00 pm 10:00 pm EMERSON BMC JOYCE BAKER (000) 474-1116 (000) 000-0000 07/09/94 LAKE SUSAN 04:00 pm 10:00 pm XRAUS PICNIC MITCHELL XRAUS (000) 474-9317 (000) 936-7887 07/13/94 LAKE SUSAN 11:00 am 02:30 pm WING DINGS DAWN LBMMB (000) 000-0000 (000) 000-0000 07/14/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 12:30 pm 04:30 pm LINAMAR PICRIC LYlIBTTB LlRAMAR (000) 470-1870 (000) 828-4291 ./94 CITY OF CBARBASSBR FACILITY: SCHEDULE 'l'ID: 01:13 pm PAGE: 3 DATE FACILITY START END NAME CONTACT MAIN PJK)NE 0'l'BBR PJK)RE ........ ............... ........ ........ ......................... ......................... .............. ----....--.-.. 07/15/94 LAKESIDE 10:00 am 10:00 pm REDJ<<)ND PRODUCTS INC ANDREA JANSSEN (000) 934-4868 (000) 000-0000 w' 07/15/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 10:00 am 10:00 pm REDJ<<)ND PJlODUCTS IRC ANDREA JANSSEN (000) 934-4868 (000) 000-0000 07/16/94 LAKE SUSAN . 12:00 pm 06:00 pm NORWBST BUSINESS CREDIT JANET DAN'l' (000) 673-8586 (000) 000-0000 07116/94 PARKVIEW 12:00 pm 08:00 pm NORTH AMERICAN SYSTBMS MARGIE GRANT (000) 885-9800 (000) 000-0000 07/17/94 PARKVIEW 12:00 pm 06:00 pm CHRIST COJIIMIIITY CBtJRCB JUDY MEISNER (000) 934-1440 (000) 000-0000 07/17/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 03:00 pm 07:00 pm ST. JaIN THE BAPTIST KATHLEEN JlOBlIl . (000) 470-9166 (000) 000-0000 07/20/94 LAKE SUSAN 11:00 am 02:30 pm WING DINGS DAWN LEMME (000) 000-0000 (000) 000-0000 07/22/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 01:00 pm 09:00 pm DYNA-GRAPHICS NANCY MITCHELL (000) 368-3344 (000) 000-0000 07/23/94 LAKE SUSAN 03:00 pm 10:00 pm CHAR BABY SITTING CO-OP MARY FINLAYSON (000) 949-3967 (000) 949-6705 07/23/94 LAKESIDE 03:00 pm 09:00 pm MCCONVILLE PICNIC CJ MCCONVILLE (000) 937-5808 (000) 000-0000 07/23/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 12:00 pm 05:00 pm CNS PAULETTE NETZEL (000) 474-7600 (000) 000-0000 . 07/24194 PAV\REC SHELTER 11:30 am 07:00 pm BURANDT PICNIC MERLIN BURANDT (000) 442-2554 (000) 000-0000 07/30/94 LAKE SUSAN 12:00 pm 10:00 pm WElVODA FAMILY REUNION BBVERLY VAllDERVOIlSTE (000) 470-1686 (000) 000-0000 07/30/94 LAKESIDE 09:00 am 07:00 pm VICTORY ENVELOPE LISA MARTINSON (000) 474-3264 (000) 000-0000 07/30/94 PARKVIEW 11:00 am 05:00 pm MINTEX CO:R1'01WlION DAN BADEN ( 000) 559-6520 (000) 000-0000 07/30/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 09:00 am 07:00 pm VICTORY ENVELOPE LISA MARTINSON (000) 474-3264 (000) 000-0000 07/31/94 PARKVIEW 07/21/94 CITY OP CHANHASSEN FACILITY: SCHEDULE TIME: 01: 13 pm PAGE: 4 DATE FACILITY STARr END NAME CONTACT MAIN PR)1I(B O'l'HERPBONE -...-..- ..........s.._ ..-.... ..--.. -..........------. .--.................... ------- ....----- . 12:00 pm 10:00 pm MIDNAS\SMITH PAR'l'r DEBRA SMITH (000) 949-0823 (000) 885-5444 07/31/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 10:00 am 06:00 pm ECKANKAR PETE SOLHEIM (000) 854-6403 ( 000) 000-0000 . 08/05/94 LAKE SUSAN 03:00 pm 08:00 am AMERICAN BAllDWARE INS GllO STEVE BARNETT (000) 939-4545 (000) 000-0000 08/06/94 LAKE SUSAN 12:00 pm 05:00 pm CBANBASSEN BANK DEE ZAJICEK (000) 937-2265 (000) 000-0000 .06/94 PARKVIEW 10:00 am 06:00 pm PRODUCTION TECHNOLOGIES MIKE LUNDEQUAM (000) 944-1076 (000) 000-0000 08/06/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 12:00 pm 06:00 pm PUCKETT FAMILY REUNION NEAL PUCKETT (000) 934-0568 (000) 000-0000 08/07/94 LAKE SUSAN 10:00 am 09:00 am EMEllSON EMC QLBIf DAVIS (000) 474-1116 (000) 000-0000 08/07/94 LAKESIDE 10:00 am 06:00 pm CELLULAR ONE LORNA WORM (000) 832-7776 (000) 000-0000 08/07/94 PARKVIEW 10:00 am 10:00 pm SMITH/ORR REUNION CHMDA RIDDEllSEN (000) 474-1794 (000) 000-0000 08/07/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 10:00 am 06:00 pm CELLULAR ONE LORNA WORM (000) 832-7776 (000) 000-0000 08/10/94 LAKESIDE 04:00 pm 09:00 pm FROEHLING ANDEllSON TINA PJlOVE'l'TO (000) 474-8826 (000) 000-0000 08/13/94 LAKE SUSAN 12:00 pm 07:00 pm ROBERTS AtJ'l'alIAi'IC PRODUCT DOUG CAMPBELL (000) 949-1000 (000) 000-0000 08/13/94 LAKESIDE 12:00 pm 04:00 pm ECKANKAR LOIS STANDFIELD (000) 797-0770 (000) 000-0000 08/13/94 PARKVIEW 12:00 pm 07:00 pm FALLON\MCELLlOO'l"l' JOE PAPATOLA (000) 333-9365 (000) 000-0000 .3/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 12:00 pm 07:00 pm FALLON\MCELLlOO'l"l' JOE PAPATOLA (000) 333-9365 (000) 000-0000 08/14/94 LAKE SUSAN 10:00 am 06:00 pm CBANBASSEN SNCMM:>BLE CLUB CHARLIE LITTFIN (000) 937-8392 (000) 000-0000 08/14/94 LAKESIDE 09:00 am 06:00 pm AUDIO KING MARYLEE DOLINAR (000) 920-0505 (000) 000-0000 08/14/94 PARKVIEW 09:00 am 08:00 pm SOFT SOAP DORIS JAMES (000) 566-2762 (000) 000-0000 08/14/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 09:00 am 06:00 pm AUDIO KING MARYLEE DOLINAR (000) 920-0505 (000) 000-0000 07/21/94 CITY OF CBANBASSEN FACILITY I SCHEDULE TIME: 01:13 pm PAGE I 5 DATE FACILITY START END RAMI COM'ACT MIB PII)IE C7l'BIR PII)IE --..... ...........--- ........ ........ -....--------... ----..-...------ ------- --..---.. 08/20/94 LAKE SUSAN 10:00 am 06:00 pm MCGLYNN BAKERIES GAYLE DAVIS (000) 470-7514 (000) 000-0000 .0/94 PARKVIEW 11: 00 am 05:00 pm PARAOON PATTI KRATZER (000) 835-3310 (000) 000-0000 08/20/94 PAV\REC SHELTER 08100 am 06100 pm ICKANKAR TONI LUCAS (000) 474-0700 (000) 000-0000 08/21/94 LAKE SUSAN 12: 00 pm 07: 00 pm DRBER, ART DRBER PICNIC (000) 934-3445 (000) 000-0000 (000) 949-0114 (000) 000-0000 (000) 448-3358 (000) 000-0000 . (000) 934-8120 (000) 000-0000 08/21/94 LAKESIDE 02:00 pm 08/21/94 PAV\REC SBELTER 11:30 am 07: 30 pm BCIOlWAJUl BOUND mBA'l'.RE CO PHIL BOLMEN 08:30 pm HOSANNA ASSEMBLY OF QOl) DON FINGER 08/23/94 LAKE SUSAN 04:00 pm 10:00 pm MBUWISSEN PICNIC JBAN MBUWISSEN 08/27/94 LAKE SUSAN 12:00 pm 08:00 pm DORSiY , WHITNEY LAW FIRM CATHY MITCHELL 08/27194 LAKESIDE 12:00 pm 06:00 pm GREVILLIUS PICNIC GARY GREVILLIUS 08/27194 PAV\REC SBELTER 11:00 am 06:00 pm BEl INC. Q&R'l'B BEBQUIST (000) 340-2916 (000) 000-0000 (000) 474-9079 (000) 000-0000 (000) 443-2500 (000) 000-0000 08/28/94 LAKE SUSAN 03:00 pm 08/28/94 PAV\REC SBELTER 01:00 pm 09:00 pm LIBERTr BAP'l'IST CBURCH JOBIf STEWART (000) 934-0513 (000) 000-0000 (000) 448-6323 (000) 473-3727 05: 00 pm LAKE SUSAN HILLS BABY COO JlELLY VCN DE BUR 09/10/94 LAKE SUSAN 01:00 pm 10:00 pm LAKE SUSAN BAST BLOClt PAR TONY KISSLIN (000) 949-3905 (000) 931-6699 09/11/94 LAKE SUSAN 12:00 pm 04:00 pm FAMILY OF CHRIST LOIS GROEN (000) 934-5659 (000) 000-0000 09/11/94 PAR1tvIEW 11:00 am 05:00 pm COLOR RESPONSE LORI DERICUOIf (000) 937-5005 (000) 000-0000 . . . MEMORANDUM CITY OF CHARHASSER b~-3 \ . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director FROM: Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor DATE: July 21, 1994 . Revenues as of July 20, 1994 are: Food: $6,428.85 . SUBJ: Lake Ann Concession Stand The Lake Ann concession stand is having a go the weather, we have seen an increase in busi ~er. Because its use is dependent on / compared to last summer. $2, 7.75 Revenue totals for the entire 1993 su Food: $6,268.89 $1,912 If the rest of July and Au Vandalism has been Recreation Co operation, I wo e warm days, we should s al this summer so far, which ha ';;';.I~;.III_Si; .ij,~.kear;; a nice increase overall. n a relief. If the Park and e Ann concession stand . . . C ITV OF CHANHASSEN 71V 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937.1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director -rH ( A- July 20, 1994 FROM: DATE: SUBJ: Set Special Meeting Date, Tuesday, August 9, 1994 Please mark your calendars! The agenda will inclu(ie: 1995 Budget Work Session. Selection of Vendor, Pheasant Hill Play Open Space/Parkland Referendum. Phase I. ~ . UJ ::> z UJ > UJ ex I ... ex o ll. UJ ex ... UJ ~ o ::> En ..l .... <( ... UJ o z UJ III III <( :t Z <( :t U .... o >- ... .... u 'II' Cll Cll ... UJ z ::> "':l 7~ . CITY OF CHARHASSER - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director Michelle Braun, Park and Recreation Intern '\/S TO: DATE: July 21, 1994 SUBJ: Consider Changing the 4th of July Celebration to a Summer Festival As we all know, Chanhassen's 10th annual Fo~of July Celebration came and went with a tremendous bang! Due to the great amount of,l~ing and organizing put into this traditional celebration, our reward was excellem c unity participation. Dawn, Jerry and I are very pleased with how smooth all the events r The Park and Recreation staff wou Commission has on these ideas as well as like to see held. ration for 1995. In recent years, as anhassen's population as it grows into se in numbers for our annual 4th of arrangements with friends or ill family, the annual celebration participation has been due to a the Park and Recreation staff is . We are already getting a head start on pIa g a cel with the present, we are seeing continuou~growth in a major suburb; although we have not a steady inc July celebrations. This may be due t ch things as p family obligations elsewhere. For 0 rs, such as the 0' has been a tradition. We do not eve the lack of incre lack of interest in our activitie ith these factors in mi considering organizing a s r festival instead. This festival woul surrounding co and amount of a uly. Keep in mind that many nsider the type and Recreation e types of activities that you would . I . . . C ITV OF CHAHHASSEH 7c:l, 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director FROM: Michelle Braun, Park and Recreation Intern Mb DATE: July 21, 1994 Appointment to District 112 Co nity Education Advisory Board SUBJ: Greg Shank, Director of Community EducatiQ~ or...>jstrict 112, is looking for someone from the Park and Recreation Commission to fill, Advi,ry Council position. This would be someone who is very interested in school a&1(i comm~ty affairs to eagerly work toward council goals. This position would be a year co . tment. In the following pages, you will find position description, as well as a m Recreation Commission does not be found by the commission. 94-95 Adviso r application. to serve on the Ad Council meeting schedule, a member of the Park and ory Board, an appointee needs to 1 . DISTRICT 112 COMMUNITY EDUCATION 1994 - 1995 ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING SCHEDULE July August 30 (Tues4ay) 5:00 - 8:00 p.m. September 26 1:00 .. 9:00 p.m. October 24 6:00 - 9:00 p.m. No Moetina Community Education lletreat and ID..Service Adult and Youth EmiduDent. Summer School and Aquatics Youth Commission Dinner Family Services: S.A.C.C. (School Ale Child Care), Learning Readiness, Pre-School. Review 1994-95 Goals and Budget December 12 (2nd Monday) To Be Scheduled If'Needed 7:00 - 9:00 p.m. November 28 7:00 - 9:00 p.m. January 23 7:00 - 9:00 p.m. February 27 7:00 .. 9:00 p.m. March 20 (3rd Monday) 7:00 .. 9:00 p.m. April 24 7:00 - 9:00 p.m. May 22 7:00 .. 9:00 June S (1st Monday) 6:00 .. 8:30 ECFE (Early Childhooc1 Family Education) Preliminary 1995..96 Goals Discussion . Parents Iu Partners Draft 1995..96 Goals "Magnifying Abilities" (Adults With Disabilities) Facilities Use Update R.eport Adopt 1995..96 Goals Volunteer Program , Draft 1995-96 Budset ABE (Adult Basic Education) Nominati'onsl.Elections for Council Officers Adopt 19P5-96 Budset Year End Evaluation Set 1995-96 Calendar' To Be Scheduled ICNeeded Adopted June 6, 1994 . ( . DISTRICT 112 COMMUNITY EDUCATION ADVISOR. Y COUNCIL POSn"JON DESCRIPTION Posting Date; Job Title: . Advisory Council Member (Area of Need) Selection: R.ecommendation by the Roles and Relationships Committee to the . Community BduCltion Advisory Council . Accountable To: Advisory Council Primary Function: To actively participate in the work orthe Advisory Council Time Commitment: Two years renewable. Attend regul~ly scheduled monthly council meetings. committee meetinss. and otber approprillte functions (workshops, in-service training. etc.) . Responsibilities: . 1. Participate in the new member orientation and be familiar with the council by-laws which sovern the or8aniution . 2. Attend meetings reA,'Ularly 3. Review agenda and materials in advance of each meeting 4. Seek community inpu~ regarding issues/concerns before the council S. Assist lhe staffin identifying community needs, interests, and concerns 6. Attend conunittee meetings and complete assignments as requested 7. Perform other related duties as time, interests, and abililies permit Qualifications: )" Expressed interest in school and community atTairs 2. Expressed interest in the Community Education concept and its development 3. Leadership potential 4. Enthusiasm and interest in working toward Council goals. Trainings Offered: . 1. New member orientation and in.service opportunities conducted at regularly scheduled meetings and special sessions. 2. Workshops and conferences at local, regional, state. and/or national n\eetings Adopted: September 20, 1993 Independent School District 112 Community Education 1 . ADVISORY COUNCIL MEMBER APPLICATION Name Address City: Zip: Home Phone: Work Phone: Occupation: Years in Community 1. Why are you interested in joining the Community Education Advisory Council? 2. Are you currently or have you been involved in any community orpnization? If so, which . ones? Have you had an opportunity to serve in a leadership capacity? 3. Wheo 1 think of Community Education. J believe that: 4. What areas are you interested in helping Community Education address? S. Arc you willing and available to attend rqularly scheduled meetinp? Return to: ISD 112 Community Education 110600 Village Road Chaska, MN .55318 . for additional infonnation or questions. caU 368-3680. ... . . . Cf - CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JUNE 28, 1994 Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Ron Roeser, Jim Manders, Jane Megers, and Dave Huffman. Jan Lash arrived during discussion on item number 2. MEMBERS ABSENT: Fred Berg STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor Andrews: Before we get into the agenda I wanted to point out that we have a very long agenda tonight with a number of issues that will probably have comment from the audience. When you do come up to the podium, please state your name and address and try to limit your comments if possible. If you are stepping forward to state agreement with another person, I guess I'd appreciate it if you'd just state the agreement and sit down rather than restate the whole argument over and over again. Also, if you are making a new statement, I guess I'd try, you know try to limit it to less than 5 minutes if possible. We'd appreciate that so. With that being said, let's move on to item number I on our agenda. VISITOR PRESENT A TIONS: PAULA AND LOREN VELTKAMP. 6724 LOTUS TRAIL RE: CARVER BEACH PARK. Public Present: Name Address Paula & Loren Veltkamp Keith & Pat Gunderson Chris & Cindy Anderson Joanne & Stan Cronister Debbie & Pat McRaith Susan Albee Betsy Discher 6724 Lotus Trail 6660 Lotus Trail 6680 Lotus Trail 6730 Lotus Trail 6900 Lotus Trail 6871 Nez Perce Drive 6728 Lotus Trail Paula Veltkamp: My name is Paula Veltkamp and Loren Veltkamp, 6724 Lotus Trail. We'd like to present several proposals for eliminating park parking on Lotus Trail at the mini beach 1 .. area, removal of the dock and raft, and imposing a fme for littering. First of all we have a petition of all the residents on Lotus Trail. Can I just bring it forward? . Andrews: Yes, please. Paula Veltkamp: And then I also have the issues, the reasons why for eliminating the parking and... Loren Veltkamp: I think the petition tonight is unanimous with everybody within about 500 feet of this parking. I could have gotten more but... Everybody who is ar~)Und it is against it Andrews: Okay. Paula Veltkamp: The reasons for eliminating the parking, I put down as over crowding, limiting of cars, parking not enforced, noise from the cars, noise from the people, city has liability for... We have 30 to 40 children down there... Sanitation. We have all those people down there with no bathroom facilities. People are violating the...safety laws. I've seen several times where people bring down their children in the trunk of their car. They're in the trunk. Regular trunk of a sedan. They pack their kids in the back plus people in the seats so they can get as many people onto the beach as possible. ...littering. Safety of the residents. We've seen people down there drinking and doing dope and that brings up the issue of my safety and all the neighbors safety. Pollution with different..detergent and they were like liquid detergent and what they do is I guess they play Mr. Bubbles with their kids in the beach. And there are other parking areas. I believe we have other facilities. On the next . page I have some statistics about Lake Ann Park. It has a lot more acres and there are 2 people per acre for parking just for the beach area. It's a lot larger than the Carver mini beach and the last issue is, why us? ...Greenwood Shores from Lake Ann. They're a smaller beach. They have a larger surrounding beach area and they have no parking and from my understanding it's probably a better site to swim on because there are no motor vehicles on it. Loren Veltkamp: They don't have parking on Lake Ann, I guess that's our point. They don't allow parking there but on our beach they have parking so we didn't think that that was fair. Paula Veltkamp: The last issue is parking and then we have...We'd like to eliminate the raft and buoys and move them to the larger Carver Beach area because we have problems with kids yelling obscenities of this and of that all day long. ...kids screaming at their friends on shore. Screaming kids pushing themselves off the raft. And as the city expands, the problem's just going to get worse and worse and, as far as the buoys. Loren Veltkamp: The buoys. We can't look out at the lake at night anymore because the buoys reflect a light from our house back into our eyes so now we don't have a view of the lake like we used to have. This raft has become very, very noisy. Just not during the day. Older kids in the afternoon and this is about, well the beach is approximately 30 feet from 2 . - . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 our kitchen and living room. And the raft is 30 feet out in the water so that's about 60 feet So I can hear people talking in normal voices out on this raft and we have to listen to this all day long. Daycare in the mornings and afternoon and then the older kids come down and it's just too darn noisy for regular living and we feel that it's affecting our property value, which is one of our chief concerns here. My wife and I bought the house as an investment and we feel that this is being compromised by the parking and the number of people that can gain access to this beach. We can have 30-40 people on this beach at any time and there's no lifeguard. There's no one to keep them quiet so this is definitely going to compromise our, the value of our house because you have to sit across from somebody and disclose what the park is like. And I have to tell them, yes the park is noisy as heck and it makes me mad every day. If I say this to somebody, that's $25,000.00 off the price of the house minimum. I figure. So we're in a situation now where our taxes go up routinely every year but because of this park, and particularly the parking policies, the value of our property is probably going down at this point because the level of activity at this park has probably doubled in the last year and you can talk to other people here but it's going up and it's going up real fast and we don't know what the reason is but we think it's a part of, they put that parking in there last year against everybody's I think except one person was for it but they don't even live there anymore. But anyway, that's the problem that we have. There's other factors involved. Paula Veltkamp: I guess the last thing, I had a...I've gone down there and picked up, I bring down a garbage bag and I just fill it up with garbage from, if there's a busy Saturday or Sunday and that's just for the morning and in the afternoon I do the same thing. I know I'm not the only one that's doing that. I've talked to other people on the street that they pick up garbage and it's even worse during the fishing season. When I take the dog for a walk and I'll take a garbage bag or two and I'll just spend 5 minutes on the lake and I'll fill up both those garbage bags in a 5 minute timeframe so we feel that littering is really an issue. For us as well as for the lake because then all that debris is going into the lake and I can pick up debris but I can't pick up piles of cigarette butts and there's a limit. Loren Veltkamp: That's about it for us. I have a list of things that I would like to see done with the park. There's 12 items here that I would submit to you to look them over. And then let some of these other people speak if they want to. I think they have different issues. Andrews: When did you buy your house? Loren Veltkamp: In November. Andrews: Of? 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Loren Veltkamp: Of last year. And when we purchased it we inquired about the park extensively because that's a standard real estate question. Is there any noise? ...and the answers to these questions were no. You know hardly anybody visits the park. You know it's almost always quiet and this has been anything but the case. Now I could go back and complain to the owners but see it's changed so much in the last year since they put that parking in that I don't really think that they lied to me. They were there for 13 years or something, you know and I don't think it was a problem back then. I think that this parking thing now has allowed so many people to come down that you can't have a moment's peace from 9:00 to 11 :00 at night. And then when the fishing opener comes around, you have people down there at 3:00 in the morning you know drinking beer and fishing and stuff like that. The cops don't come down and deal with it like they should. Should I talk about the tickets thing? Paula Veltkamp: ...parking being enforced or not enforced. I asked Todd Hoffman to send me a list of calls that were made, actually tickets that were issued in the last year and a half and he sent me a list of calls that there made in that timeframe between January, 1993 and June of this year. And out of those he marked 17 that actually looked like they dealt with the whole Lotus TraiVCarver Beach area and a couple of those did have citations issued and we noticed that there were none of those on the list were from our residents and I know that we've called at least 8 times. So that indicates to us that not all the phone calls are being . recorded. Loren Veltkamp: Which means you don't have access to all the problems that are going on down there. There's not a record of it. So there's no way for you guys to look at the record and see what the record is. See how bad it really is. I don't know how else you would come. So there's some kind of a problem there and I don't know where it is but there's a lot more calls about these problems than are getting into these reports as far as we know. Huffman: So you want to get rid of the parking? Loren Veltkamp: Yeah. But there's some other things I also want that I wrote on here. Should I go through these or do you want us to just read it? Huffman: Can they just read it? Andrews: It's 12 items? Loren Veltkamp: I can go through them quickly. Andrews: Yeah, please. 4 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Loren Veltkamp: We want you to remove non-handicap parking. Not the handicap parking because we understand there's some handicap people in the neighborhood and that's not the problem. But it's just the non-handicap parking. I would personally like to remove the raft and buoys to the south beach where there's more space and they can put up with more noise but I don't know about the other people down there. They should have a say about that. Also my understanding is that the owner of our house previously built a raft and that if we bought his house then this raft could be mine. And I don't know about this but I would like to pursue this. Does anybody know? Resident: Yes it is. Huffman: What do you know? Loren Veltkamp: What do you know? Resident: That raft was built by Michael Wegler. Huffman: Is it city property now? Is it his or what? Resident: The city does own the raft. Hoffman: It's city property. Huffman: So it's city property now. Loren Veltkamp: Where is the receipt for the purchase. Hoffman: I have that logged. Loren Veltkamp: Can I have that to verify that? Hoffman: Sure, absolutely. Huffman: So that's our's now. Loren Veltkamp: Alright. I would still like the raft moved but other people...about that. I would definitely like to post no screaming rules in this park immediately because people are screaming after their dogs. They're screaming after their kids. And kids are screaming at each other and just to give you an example of what a kid screamed at somebody today, he was in a fight with another young boy down there. These are teenagers and he said, I'm 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . going to hire some niggers to wreck your f'ing car. You know this is the kind of talk that we hear going on down the street And yesterday there was a girl from Fox Chase down there and she asked these same boys what time is it and the kid says, pull down your pants and I'll tell you. Now this is the kind of stuff that we hear from the kids in this park and we don't think they deserve a park, to be honest. And I've heard this from a number of people up and down the road as we walk our dog, we meet people and you know they all complain about this. The people at the south end of the park have these kids drinking in the woods late at night and you tell them to be quiet and they say, f you. This is public property. You know you can't tell me what to do. Only the police can. So you call the police and the police cruise up and down the road but they don't go in the woods. So then they never get anybody and you have the same problem next week or the week after that. So there's no solution here and that doesn't involve the parking but we just want to relay some of the problems that we're having with just having a lot of people down there who are not neighborhood people. The original agreement with this property, when the city took it over is that it would stay a neighborhood beach and that is what we want. A neighborhood beach where we can leave our stuff down at the beach. We don't have to worry about it getting stolen. We don't have to worry about people coming in and you know abusing this or that or littering. You know when you get people from out of the neighborhood on this 30 foot strip of land, they don't care you know. We have to pick up after them. We have to do all this stuff so I would like to see the no screaming rule imposed. We would like to see litter baskets along the trail because there's a lot of litter. I'd like to post and enforce substantial littering fines because I . don't see any penalty for littering so everybody just does it We would personally like to see mooring of boats along there for the put out residents along Lotus Trail. And I thought this was fair because we have to put up with the noise and stuff and originally the agreement, as it's been relayed to me by people in the street, was that the city allowed people to moor their boats there like on weekends and stuff but then they just stopped doing that. But that was part of the original agreement for landowners who turned over the beach to the city originally. So I would like to see that again. I don't know about other people but it seems to me that it would be fair to allow that. I'd like to see the city park sign removed and post a neighborhood beach sign instead because if you advertise it as a city park, then people from, it becomes an inner city park. You have people from Brooklyn Center and Minneapolis and anybody coming down there and it's only a 30 foot strip of land. There's hardly enough room for everybody. I would like to see installed a removable, knee high posts that prohibit parking along the north beach and those little. posts like you see in other parks you know so people can't pull up to the beach and dump off all their stuff and then go park, which is what people do. You know they come down with their coolers and floatation devices and they park in front of the beach where it says no parking, unload all their kids, slam their doors. You know yell at everybody. Did you bring this? Did you bring this? You didn't bring this you jerk. You know what's the matter with you and we have to put up with all this noise 6 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 which is, they do have, that's 20 feet from our deck. Now if you're sitting on your deck I mean this is just the endless parade and it goes on right under our nose. Paula Veltkamp: And we know that the neighbors down the street have complained. Not just us but other people have complained about the noise. They have to shut their windows and turn on the air conditioning because they can't stand the noise too so it's not just because we have such a close proximity to the beach. Loren Veltkamp: And we've done that and we can still hear it so. We would like to hear from the Board tonight that they have an intention of keeping our property values on the up and up. I'd like to hear that from you guys tonight because I don't know that the Board is committed to our property values. For all I know the Board is only committed to giving as much parking and people down there as possible. I don't know where the Board stands on this. Roeser: How many parking spaces are there Todd? Hoffman: Four, one being handicapped. Roeser: Four including a handicapped? Hoffman: Four including a handicapped, correct. Paula Veltkamp: But there's been as many as 6 or 7 cars parked down there. One of the safety patrol cars, when I called one, he told the people on the beach they were illegally parked. Just to shove their cars in more so they could all fit there. So there are, I would say there are at least 6 parking spaces there. Loren Veltkamp: And this is a minor thing but you need a sign that says no picking of flowers along that trail because this spring, after waiting all winter for the flowers to bloom, these little girls came down and they walked out with armfulls and they were all gone. Roeser: These were neighborhood girls? Loren Veltkamp: Yeah. I mean it's the cutest thing. We didn't say anything to them but you know, all the flowers. I mean they got them all... Finally, enforce parking after hours and... within a reasonable period of time. We've called the police complaining and then they come down a half hour later and the people are gone. The situation's different you know. So the police have also told us that they really have better things to do than chase people around on this park and I don't blame them. The last time I called somebody down they 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . said, we have an emergency on the other side of town where a little boy's life is actually in danger. Now we're down here servicing this call you know. Well what am I supposed to do? I don't know. You know this is the kind of feedback I get from the police you know and it's fair but you know, they really, the city's not in a position to police this park the way it needs to be policed. This is the weird problem that you guys are in now. So I don't have your solution for you but I'm just telling you our point That's my 12 things. I'll leave this with you. Andrews: Thank you. Is there anybody else from the neighborhood that wishes to speak about this issue? Please step forward. State your name and address for the record please. Thank you. Susan Albee: Mr. Chairman. Members of the commission. Members of the staff. Susan Albee, 6871 Nez Perce Drive. I've lived in this area for 14 years and there's nothing like beating a dead horse. As you all know this has come up. It's now a city owned piece of property. I had engaged in a conversation with Loren approximately 2 weeks ago. I...quite disappointed in someone that comes in in 6 months and says, no picking of flowers signs. No screaming signs. My children play on the beach. They splash. They scream. They have a good time. The raft is city property. It's been moved on several occasions. It's been moved out farther again. I feel waterskiers might hit it. We're going to have an accident. . Property values in 6 to 7 months don't depreciate $25,000.00. When you purchase a piece of property across from a public park, you can anticipate some noise. As far as the litter in that park, it is the city's responsibility to pick up litter. There are trash barrels there. I go down there myself frequently. I don't fmd it anything close to what he just described. As a matter of fact it's quite an improvement. Carver County does an excellent job in this community and they do have more to do than take care of one resident. The solution may be solvable if one doesn't choose to live that close to the park. I think that the children in this community have a right to use the lake. I frequent both parks myself and found them to be maintained in very good condition compared to a lot of municipalities. As a matter of fact I'm very pleased with what I see. I question staff's time that they tend to waste on this issue because I'm starting to feel we really are beating a dead horse. Thank you. Andrews: Thank you. Anybody else please? Keith Gunderson: I'm Keith Gunderson. My wife Pat We live at 6660 Lotus Trail. Sit here about 2 years ago and we offered a lot of alternatives to the plans of this park board to put docks, canoes, canoe racks and parking that would...North Lotus Beach. In the past 2 years we have been subjected to a dramatic increase of traffic. Illegal parking on parkland. Parking on private property. Actually in front of my home. Constantly turning around in our driveways in the middle of the night. Turning around in my front yard. Waking up at 1:00, 8 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 2:00, 3:00 in the morning and the banging of canoes off loading from the canoe racks. On top of cars. Again, both in front of my home. There are cars ripping up the park grass when they go to turn around and I'm talking about in the middle of the night, spinning of tires and actually spinning around in circles. We have dead fish thrown on the park ground and left to rot and smell. Is it also...at the park? We have loud, noisy drinking. Broken glass. Garbage. Litter and the reason that this park looks good in this area is because we have concerned neighbors that walk this road, walk this area on a continuous basis and all the time picking stuff up. There are garbage cans in the area and we do thank the park board for that. But this is what we are subjected to every day. My wife and I walk our dog every morning and night. We see cars parked in this little parking area at 11:00, 12:00, 1:00 in the morning. No lights in the area and in this day and age, that's a little scary. That's the way I feel. All these concerns. All these problems that we addressed at the meeting 2 years ago. We talked to the Mayor. The board members. Mr. Hoffman. Everybody promised that there would be no problems down there. If there were, they'd be taken care of. None of this has happened. In the past 2 years again, we have called in numerous times to the city of Chanhassen to try to take care of the park. To keep it clean. Again, we have tried to pick the litter up all that we can. The weeds have just now been cut down I believe last weekend, otherwise they were getting up to 3 to 4 foot tall. They're noxious weeds in this area of the lake... They should be kept up...as much as possible. We've also called Carver County for cars illegally parked on the park. On my front yard. Sometimes they come. Sometimes they don't. You know again, they might have a call someplace else. We have called a number of times. When they do come down, we've never seen anybody write a ticket and all that does is promote the people to come back and park again. So tickets have to be written. If it's a problem with signage, different signs. Again, 3 years ago there was only about 2 people in the area that actually wanted all this stuff down at the park that I can remember wanting to get the canoe rack, the picnic table, everything down there and these people have moved away. They're gone... We have two new homeowners in the area now that live right in front of the area and they don't want the problem either... Neither does the rest of the neighborhood. I pay the interest of the taxpaying homeowners in the area, we would like to see the canoe rack, the dock, and the parking all removed and restored to it's original condition and reinforce the signs and make it a safer neighborhood. And I think that's not unreasonable because there are so many parks in the area and I'm here tonight to reinforce this. I want to get it on record because I know they're going to be...the Lotus Trail neighborhood one of these years and once that parking gets in, it's done. We're going to have to suffer with this for a long time. Right now there has been some said about the handicap parking. The handicap dock. Where are the regulations for this stuff? Where' s the codes? What size is this parking supposed to be? Every handicapped parking stall area that I've ever been in, that I've ever seen, they are very, very wide. This road cannot handle this type of traffic. It is dangerous. It's not very safe and it's just not being. 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Pat Gunderson: When we brought this up to you originally and asked you about that handicapped, you said well not all handicapped people are necessarily to that sense but still there are regulations for handicapped parking. You can't be assured that a wheelchair victim is not going to come. Keith Gunderson: Thank you for your attention. Andrews: Thank you. Anybody else wishes to speak about this? I again ask you to keep your comments to 5 minutes or less please. Stan Cronister: Good evening...my name is Stan Cronister. I live at 6730 Lotus Trail. I've lived down there about 16 years and I appreciate what the city's done. You've got a very nice idea having a park down there. My question is, is there a liability for the city to have people swimming down there without a lifeguard? Andrews: I'd refer that to Todd. As far as liability, I don't believe there is with a posted unguarded beach. Hoffman: As far as liability, we have liability in any of our park operations. Stan Cronister: Okay. Until the last 2 years it's been used and utilized by many people in . that area. I think they've all been pretty well mannered and I don't know what's in the water or what's happened in the last couple years but the language has become almost unbearable. I live about 300 yards from this area and I can hear them. I know there's probably not a censor in the city that could go down there and manage this. I don't know what it's going to take but it's unreasonable and it's illegal. It's...behavior. Boisterous. Loud and foul. Worse of all foul. And I've been...and I've heard a lot of people swear in the service and all that but...and I don't think the young kids that are being raised down in that area need to listen to that. It's a bad example. I don't know what the city could do about it but I wish they'd address it. The beach in and of itself I think was started by the fellow that lived there many years named Rocky and the city for many years tried to get it taken out. They dido't want it to happen. Now the city's embraced it. I wish the city could look after the property a little bit better. As for the parking, it doesn't bother me as much as my neighbors down there but I'm sure it's a big issue. But if there was just some way we could manage the people who use the park. I think it's a nice facility and I kind of wish it'd be the best of both worlds. The neighbors should have, and myself, a pleasant place to live and youngsters in the community could utilize it. I know the swimming pools, the public swimming pools they're not allowed to act in that manner. I don't know why they should be allowed to act like that at a beach. Thank you. 10 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Andrews: Is there anybody else that wishes to speak about this issue? Betsy Discher: My name's Betsy Discher and I live at 6728 Lotus Trail between Loren and Stan. A couple of years ago these improvements were proposed at the park. I had a discussion with Mr. Hoffman regarding some issues with regards to the Americans with Disabilities Act and I can appreciate the spirit in which I believe some of these improvements were made. It was represented to me during the course of that conversation that in fact there would be two handicapped parking spaces made available so that residents or non-residents of the city with disabilities who wished to use the public spaces...and I can certainly relate to that particular spirit as it was represented to me. It was also represented, or I think it was a little questionnaire that came around or whatever, what would you like to see you know. Here's what we're sort of proposing to do and on that was listed some play equipment and... would probably be very reasonable extension of the...just prior to that you had closed the public access and relocated it to Highway 101 again. Since that time, as everybody has said, we have seen a dramatic increase in the overall usage of the lake. Obviously when you have more parking spaces so people can park their boat trailers, you get more boats on the lake. I don't know if this is good or bad. From a noise standpoint it is certainly increasing the amount of boat traffic and the danger level on the lake. We have also seen a lot of increase in traffic and I don't need to reiterate...it's definitely there. We've got pretty large driveways going up to our house and we've had people parking in our driveway and turning around and peeling out and the whole thing. My particular issue, you know I'm in agreement with most of the folks on Lotus Trail that the amount of traffic that the park carries is excessive in...but I also have an issue that if you're real concerned about accessibility for persons wish disabilities, you've got a person with a disability living right across the street from the park who needs assistance to actually get on that beach because the beach is configured with rip rap rock and slants of the sand. So it would seem more appropriate to me, being directly adjacent to that beach, that maybe you might want to address some of those concerns since if there's going to be limited parking, access for parking's going to be primarily on foot. So I'd like to see the regular parking spaces gone. I think initially it was represented to us on Lotus Trail that there were only going to be 2 parking spaces. Both designated handicapped and I think that's what we agreed to. Obviously that's not the case. Thanks. Andrews: Anybody else? Debbie McRaith: Just really brief. Andrews: Yeah, I'd appreciate it if you'd keep it brief. We've got a very long agenda. Debbie McRaith: I'm going to be real brief. I'm Debbie McRaith and we live down on 6900 Lotus Trail, on the other side. On the south end of the beach. On that side and just a lot of 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . these same concerns are happening down on that end of the beach also. Especially the after 10:00 p.m. people being at the park and that's the hardest I think of all of it to take. People being down there. We're a little bit farther away. You know the beach is down just a little bit away but we're, it's coming up a little later. The street light...still on the other end but I think it might, down on the one end and we just agree with a lot of the same things and we want people down there to enjoy it and make it a neighborhood park but it's just gotten out of control. Andrews: Thank you. Last call. Anybody else? Okay, very good. Let's just take it down the commissioners quickly. Any questions or comments you may have. We'll start with you Jane. Meger: I don't know where to begin. I see a lot of issues tying together that even aren't on our agenda from the parking. I'm wondering if this beach is maybe accessed a little bit more. I think we've talked about access to Lake Ann, one of our premiere beaches and are people avoiding going there because of the cost involved and going to some of these smaller beaches. I don't know if that's something to look at too. I, unfortunately wasn't able to join the rest of you this evening when you went and looked at the places so I'm interested in hearing your comments about the size and the parking access. I've seen a small illustration on it. It does seem like a fairly small beach for the parking and I guess I wasn't here 2 years ago when all of the discussion took place so I wasn't aware of the neighborhood input. I . certainly have heard the concerns here today. I don't know what the answers are either. I'm sure we will need to spend a little bit more time discussing it. I don't know that we're going to be able to come out with an answer just this evening saying do away with the parking but maybe looking at some type of an action plan. Some of the things starting with smaller and working our way up to see what actions will help to eliminate some of these problems. Huffman: The gentleman who was concerned about his property values and are we going to be concerned about that. Obviously we're always concerned about that. I speak as an individual. I will not guarantee your property will go up or down, because that's not our job because let the buyer beware in anything. If it goes up, that's good. If it goes down, that's life and we all want it to go up but I'm not prepared to sit here and say we're going to guarantee the value of your property. That's not our job. We can't guarantee the public people are going to ticket people. I did hear some concerns in here after 10:00. The vulgarity. Things of that. Those are concerns that we have as individuals of this board but also as parents. Those are real issues that we can address. I don't...take the parking out. I mean I wasn't here 2 years ago either but it looks like that park is going to be there. Now what are the things that we can do to help maintain that and make it well where we can all survive in that situation and there has to be a mutual spirit of working together here. Driving through that area today, there were also a couple things put up against on the other side of 12 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 that park that I don't know who the individuals were but we'll have some discussion later with the city officials asking to plant some flowers or whatever and now dirt's going to roll into that beautiful beach area. So I mean there has to be a spirit of working together on all sorts of different ways. The concerns of vulgarity on the beach are unacceptable. Kids screaming and hollering. I've got a 7 and 4 year old. Not acceptable. Keep calling. That's one thing you're going to have to do. You don't like it. I don't like it. I live down at Rice Marsh Lake. We go down there and we pick up garbage on the floor too because my kids go down there. Signage about littering and things of that nature, I don't know if we need to do more of that. I mean some specific things that we can do to help. And that's an excellent presentation. An excellent thing of 12 things of some of these things you can do but unless I'm mistaken, we're not taking the parking out. I mean there's a lot of things that we should be able to do together and I think what we need to do is concentrate on some of those things that we can do together. But let's go from there. Andrews: I was on the park board 2 years ago so I guess I'll have to take some of the responsibility for what was decided then. After driving down there tonight, I'm not sure that that small area can support the activity of 4 fully loaded cars with some kids. So I guess I would be in favor of reducing the amount of parking that would be available because I don't see this as a drive to destination for 50 people. I don't think that has the capacity to handle that many people. I do think it should be posted with some sort of a quiet zone or quiet hours and I guess the thing that would be most important here would be that enforcement has to be rigorous. If enforcement officials are coming to the area when there are cars illegally parked and not writing citations, I think that's wrong and I agree with the statement that was made that if citations are not written, you're encouraging further violations. I'd agree with that because that's human behavior. At the same time I'm very cautious here about saying we ought to have a park with no access. I think that parks belong to all citizens of the city and that people ought to have access to parks so I'm against eliminating parking but I do feel that perhaps restraining the capacity here at that edge of the park. There was a comment made about a prior agreement. I would encourage that if there's serious concern about some agreement being violated, that you consult old Minutes from old meetings and see for yourself what those agreements were, if any. What I fmd is that in most real estate transactions there's a lot of vague agreements that you think you heard or thought existed that really don't and if it's not on paper, and not legal, it's not going to stand up. And I'm a victim of that myself so I know what it's like. As far as some of the comments about people driving their vehicles to the beach, on the sand or on the grass and dumping their things off, there was a suggestion made that perhaps we could put some sort of a post or something across to prevent access to the beach itself. I think that might be a good idea. I don't think we need to have any signs about preventing kids. I think kids deserve to be there. Kids deserve to have fun. Yes, kids will make noise but I would rather have them making noise and having some fun on the lake than being, sitting around by their house trying to think 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . about what other kinds of fun they could create and other kinds of mischief so I think it's what kids do. So that's where I stand on it. I guess at this point I'd be willing to support a reduction in parking and more of a rigorous enforcement. Roeser: That's basically my idea too. I think we're going to have to talk to the Public Safety Department about this because there's been an awful lot of accusations hurled at them tonight about not showing up. Not writing tickets and I'd like to hear their side. I would like to sit down with them and maybe hear some suggestions they have for the beach. I don't think we can solve the problem tonight. It sounds like it's a little bigger than all of us and I think if we can get together maybe and have our own little short meeting some night and just talk about that, and have someone here from Public Safety. Resident: Are we...? Roeser: Well, I'm not sure. You'd certainly be informed, yes but we've heard your side of the story. We haven't heard the public. Resident: How many tickets have been issued down there? Roeser: We haven't heard from the public safety department ma'am. I would like to hear their side because when you just hear one side of the story from angry residents, you don't . get the best picture in the world. I would like to hear both sides. Resident: And you've got a lot of angry... Roeser: Yes we do. Yes we do have angry residents but we haven't heard any other side. I'd like to hear what, why if these tickets are not being written, why they're not being written. So I think we're going to have to devote some time just at some meeting to take care of this. To talk about it and I would like to invite the Public Safety Director here to fmd out why these things are going on and what we can do. Loren Veltkamp: Okay. Is that who you would talk to is the Director? Because when we talked to the officers that come down there and they say that they don't write the stuff. They say that it's a problem and they say, they come down here all the time. Roeser: Well perhaps they have some suggestions as to what to do about it so I'd like to hear their side of it. Resident: And when you do talk, can one of us be present? I mean we live down there. 14 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Andrews: We'll respond to this in just a moment here. Let me move on and then we'll have Todd respond a little bit about how we've handled similar situations in the past when we've asked for more enforcement. Manders: I guess my comments are along the lines of what's already been expressed. It seems to me, from what I'm hearing, is that there is much more traffic than that area can support. It needs to be looked at. What we can do about it, suggestions about closing the beach to me are unacceptable. Residents: Nobody's asking to close the beach. Andrews: Could you let the commissioner member state his position. Manders: Other discussions about noise and kids. I'm single. I don't have any kids. I go to grocery stores. I go a lot of places and I hear this kind of stuff. Well sure you say, well you can walk away from it. You don't live right next to it but those problems are allover and I don't know what to do about it. To say kids can't go down there or to minimize the volume. Maybe that's part of the solution. I don't know. There's a lot of issues there. Andrews: Todd, could you respond to about the enforcement issues? Hoffman: The enforcement. We did have a request tonight from the Veltkamps to provide a record of police calls. I spoke with Scott Harr, Public Safety Director, who requested that list from Carver County. That they provide the City of Chanhassen's...You have that list...Veltkamp's as well as the Rostad's at the other end of the beach. The two requestees or presenters this evening. As Mrs. Veltkamp eluded to, it goes back to January of 1993 through June 16th of this year. There are some calls and you can read through those. Commission members have that record which relate directly to Lotus Trail or to either of the two park sites. Again, this is their complete listing. There were certainly times that they received calls for that area and they do not respond with a report. They also did not... Andrews: Well what I propose that we do, and I guess I'll make a motion to take some action here. I would like to, at this moment request stricter enforcement directly, immediately to start. I would like to ask Mr. Harr to make himself available to us at our next meeting because I feel like this is a situation where if we don't come down hard on illegal parkers, it's never going to get any better. I think that's the level of action that I'd want to take at the immediate time. As far as reducing the amount of parking that's ,currently there, I would like to wait and see if the enforcement helps. If that does not, then I would like to see the parking reduced. That is my motion at this time. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Hoffman: Again, any action taken this evening cannot be based off of a visitors presentation. You would have to formally sch~ule this item. Andrews: Okay, then I would move that we would schedule this for a formal hearing on a future agenda. Is there a second to that? Huffman: I second. Andrews: Okay. Is there any discussion? Any comments from the audience, quickly please? Loren Veltkamp: Could you also bring up the issue of passing the no screaming rule down there? Andrews: I don't believe that's within our authority to do that We could recommend that the City Council consider controlling, what I consider inappropriate behavior and leave it open at that. Loren Veltkamp: You could put it on the sign there to remind people not to scream. Andrews: Well I mentioned the word Quiet Zone. I think that's probably appropriate being . that the houses are quite close. I think that's about as reasonable as I can make it. Huffman: Are the kids, may I ask a question. When you notice the kids playing down there, are they all unsupervised? Are there no adults? There's no form of organization. Is this just sort of Lord of the Flies type thing? Paula Veltkamp: Well there is some...daycare. They bring a van down and...they can just jump out of the van and get right on the beach and they'll have like 6 or 7 chairs...and there is a drop off on that lake and then kids are screaming. And then there's probably at times several daycares down there. Loren Veltkamp: The general situation during the day is you have 2, 3,4 women in lawn chairs with a cooler and they're talking amongst themselves and the kids are playing in the lake you know 20 feet away. The women are kind of talking and the kids are out playing you know and that kid could slip on the lily pad and float away and I don't know if they'd even notice to be honest Andrews: There's been, we've got a motion made and seconded. We need to move on to be honest. 16 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Andrews moved, Huffman seconded to put the issue of the Carver Beach mini park at a future Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. REOUEST FOR LANDSCAPING: RICE MARSH LAKE TRAIL. CONNIE DEAFENBAUGH. 8115 ERIE CIRCLE. Todd Hoffman gave the staff presentation on this item. Andrews: Is there anybody from the audience that has anything to add to this discussion at this point? Hearing none, okay. Let's take it from the other end this time. Keep it brief if possible. Manders: Okay. It's my observation, just being at that site and I made the comment last time, or last month when we were discussing this issue, to see the site and the way it looks, the boundaries and the available trail alignment is obviously close to the fence but the fence appears to be further over than it should be to the trail. For us to allocate funds for plantings, my opinion is that if this is that significant an issue that we should, that the individual homeowner should be willing to contribute to that cause if it's that significant and I wouldn't be in favor of the city doing that. That's it. Roeser: We talked about straightening it a little bit so it would angle in a little bit different behind the house but that's true. If the fence is on city property already or it seems to me that we shouldn't be responsible for blocking that trail. We shouldn't be responsible for hedging that or anything else. I think if the property was there, it was a trail a long time ago and I can't see where we should spend that money either. We would be setting a precedent that I think we might be sorry for if we did it. Andrews: I also visited the property tonight. My recommendation would be that we just attempt to keep a trail improvement as far away from the property owner as possible. There's an opportunity to cut a comer there a little bit to give us some distance. But I am also very concerned or cautious that if we offer any improvement here as a site improvement or a visual improvement, that there's really no way for us to differentiate this request from a potential 100 others that could come to us for the same reasons so my recommendation would be that we do not provide special landscaping but that we do try to route the trail to have as little impact as possible on the site. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Huffman: This is a neighbor. I live in the neighborhood. I know this family fairly well and I think at this point I need to abstain from that because I've got a good opinion of the people so I'll pass. Meger: I did not attend this evening but I did take the opportunity on a beautiful Saturday afternoon to ride my bike over at approximately 3:00 in the afternoon. I thought I would try to get a feel for the traffic and I don't know if it was just a strange day but I only passed one other individual who was jogging at the time so, I did see Connie sitting out on her deck and I could have very easily said hello and I'm sure that the trail is, I mean it is right there so I understand her situation. I would agree I guess with the comments made so far now that this would not be a precedent that we would want to set And I would recommend that if the trail can be made a little bit wider...as much as possible. Lash: Did I miss the discussion earlier about rerouting the trail? Andrews: Yeah I talked about how if there's a junction there or the corner that it takes right before it hits their property, that we could cut across there a little bit and move the trail further from her house. Roeser: Right where it comes in it can be moved over some. Lash: I visited the site too. Not tonight but I did it individually and I guess I'm going to be the lone ranger here but, in visiting that, I think it's a somewhat unique situation in a couple of different ways. Number one, the landscaping or the topography of the lot itself. The other lots don't seem to be quite, it's not quite as an invasion into their privacy because of the hill and most of the rest of the lots over there are natural and already landscaped in a way that it's fairly private. I also think this is a fairly unique situation since this trail is being installed long after the property owner has lived there. Most of the other trails going in have been on a trail plan for years and people moving to town have the opportunity to come to City Hall and see if a trail is platted to be on their property. Connie was not, as far as my understanding goes, was not given that opportunity unless this trail was slated before she bought the property. IT that's the case, I guess I need to hear that now. Because of those two situations, the length of time she's lived there and the fact that the trail was not there originally but was an access road. That was a different usage and because the topography and the closeness...to her home, I think it's incumbent upon us to provide some funding. We can either want to make sure that there were certain conditions attached to that and if that were to happen, I would discuss the conditions more but I get the feeling that I'll be out voted here. I'm open to looking at individual situations as they come in and I think we need to be sensitive to the fact that some trail installations will be seen as an invasion of privacy to 18 . . . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 some people and we need to look at each situation individually and I think this situation falls into that category. So I would be in favor of providing some fmancial assistance. Andrews: Again, is there anybody from the audience that has any comment? Okay, hearing none, is there a motion for action here? Roeser: I move we go ahead and not provide any kind of buffer zone between the trail and the, and try to make that alignment as far away from the property as we can. Andrews: Is there a second to that? Manders: I'll second it. Andrews: Any further discussion? Roeser moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission that no financial assistance be given for landscaping along Rice Marsh Lake Trail to Connie Deafenbaugh at 8115 Erie Circle but that the trail alignment be as far away from the property as possible. All voted in favor, except Jan Lash who opposed and Dave Huffman who abstained. The motion carried. REQUEST FOR ORDINANCE AMENDMENT PROHIBITING SMOKING IN CITY PARKS. DAN DOENGES AND FAMILY. 6518 GRAY FOX CURVE. Dan Doenges: Dan Doenges. I guess my wife, Karen and my son, Jack, as well as any future children. 6518 Gray Fox Curve in Chanhassen. I got this agenda Friday in the mail. I thought there was going to be a special meeting on it, not a regular meeting so I didn't... prepare but nothing has changed. I guess I'd like to point out that just the opposite again. The health concerns. The trash. I know that, I don't necessarily believe this is the right approach but the impression that it leaves to impressionable children, youth of the smoking, we ought to try to eliminate that. That's a value statement so I think we're past that in this values thing. ...clinical facts to point out the risks. You can quantify the facts and cigarette butts go floating down. It's all there. Like...engineer says that the school district, state law that they be smoke free. It could be tobacco free, I'm not sure but it's smoke free. That's not just the buildings, it's the grounds and that's the place where the children are. And I would think at a minimum, a minimum, that we prohibit smoking in the playgrounds where kids, my son, they pick them up. They don't know what to do with them. With the cigarette butts that . is. The sandy beaches, those areas where children and families tend to be, at a minimum make that a smoke free area. I don't think it's, well this may sound ridiculous but if we can 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . make it so you can't bring your dog into the park, I would think the least we could do is think about people's health and do something about cigarette smoking. Thank you. Andrews: Would anybody else in the audience that wishes to speak about this issue? Sue Morgan: Good evening. My name is Sue Morgan and I live at 4031 Kings Road. I was really disturbed when I heard about this amendment a few weeks ago. I'.m not a smoker. I'm not a proponent of smoking. I dislike smoking immensely but I feel that this is a violation of people's civil rights and I feel that it's beyond the jurisdiction of the Park Commission to even consider making an amendment like this. I went to the Minneapolis Library today to look up Minnesota Statutes on the powers and the authority of the boards and the park commission and what you guys can and cannot do. What your authority is. And basically my interpretation is that you're suppose to devise plans, establish a system of public parks, parkways, deal with the buildings, superintendent of regulation...parks, preservation of trees. Andrews: I'll concede this is not within our area but it is within our area to make a recommendation to City Council that they pass an ordinance so that's why it comes to us fIrst. It was because it originated as a park issue so you're right, we have no ordinance authority at all. Sue Morgan: You have no authority with this at all and I feel that, as I say, I'm not a proponent of smoking but I'm a proponent people relaxing and enjoying themselves. It seems like in the Chanhassen codes or statutes or whatever, that there's no camping, nO...water pollution, no animals, no fIres, no use of vehicles. And it seems like most of those things are good because they protect the overall well being and general well being of all of us so I think that's good but I think as far as smoking is concerned in an open atmosphere, I think individuals have opportunity to walk away from somebody who's smoking. Just say that's really annoying and move away or can you change directions. I think that the park might consider redirecting their efforts at limiting non-smoking to structures and enclosures, buildings. . Andrews: That's already been done. Sue Morgan: That sort of thing. So I think in general, open air...! work in downtown Minneapolis and I drive the streets of downtown. I see these high rise office buildings. Tons of people standing outside smoking away on the sidewalks you know and if the city of Minneapolis has not placed an ordinance or an amendment, I don't think the city of Chanhassen should be the forerunner...and I don't know who would be here if you want to deal with all of that but I think people can make choices. That do make choices. If they 20 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 don't want their family exposed to that, don't take your family there and I think people have an opportunity, should have the opportunity to smoke...thanks. Andrews: Very good. Anyone else from the audience wish to speak about this issue? We'll start in the middle this time since we started on both ends. I'm allergic to smoke and I hate smoke. I can't stand smoking. I don't want to be around anybody that smokes. However I agree that I feel that this is beyond what's necessary to be reasonable in my opinion. I guess I'll just leave it at that. I also agree that if we try to pass an ordinance, I think we'd be up to our eyeballs in lawsuits anyway so I think it would be a futile effort. I guess at this point I feel that if somebody is smoking near me and it bothers me, I'll move up wind or I'll move away. I'll just have to deal with it in spite of the fact that it does make me ill. Physically ill. So that's where I stand. I don't think this requires an ordinance in my opinion. Anybody else have any comments to add? Manders: My comment on this issue would be the ordinances on top of ordinances on top of more ordinances and my example is, when you're talking about cigarette butts laying around, there's ordinances against littering. Now to have an ordinance against smoking so they don't smoke there would be just as enforceable as the current one against littering. We just got done talking about the beach property, littering issues. They aren't suppose to litter so how do you enforce that? That one is similar to the dogs in the park issue which is one of my favorites that I don't particularly care for either. How do we enforce the clean-up after dogs? It's a tough one. And I can't see this. Andrews: If there's no other comments, let's have. I don't know if we need a motion... action but at this time Dan I don't think there's support to move ahead on this one for us to support a motion to make a change so without that support there's no need for any motion here at all. Dan Doenges: Can I ask then, I'm really displeased with the outcome here tonight. Where can I take it from here then? Andrews: City Council has a visitor's presentation as well and that's a direct access. To be honest, it's probably more appropriate in this situation because it would be stronger coming through the Council directly with an approach directly at an ordinance rather than through the parks. In my opinion. Lash: And we do not have the authority to make an ordinance. We can always send our recommendations to the City Council and at this point in time it sounds like we would not recommend the ordinance. And I believe the City Council will hear what our recommendation, or lack of recommendation might be... 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Andrews: I think you misread what we're saying. I think what we're saying is, we don't like smoking but we don't feel that outlawing smoking in a public area, outdoor area is reasonable. Dan Doenges: What's the difference between outdoor area and indoor area? There's an existing indoor air ordinance for a building but. Andrews: I'm not. Roeser: I don't know if we should get into semantics and that kind of discussion. We've got 18 items here yet tonight. Dan Doenges: Right, I understand. Andrews: I guess I would recommend at this point that you approach the Council and see what response you get there, because that's also going to give you some indication as to what the potential is for getting an ordinance through at this time. And beyond that, I think with many other interests that people try to encourage, I'm involved with other issues myself. You have to create a group of people that have the same interest that have political power. I mean that's how things get done and I think you're probably one of the first people I've heard discuss this and I'm sure this is an issue that will build over time. But I just don't think right now that it's something that I, I don't think there's the support here for it. There may be . individual, and I'll again state that I'm allergic to smoke. It bothers me. It makes me sick but I don't think I could vote for this. Okay, thank you. REQUEST FOR STREET LIGHT. RONALD AND BARBARA ROSTAD. 6890 LOTUS TRAIL. Public Present: Name Address Paula & Loren Veltkamp Keith & Pat Gunderson Chris & Cindy Anderson Joanne & Stan Cronister Debbie & Pat McRaith Susan Albee Betsy Discher Nadine Lee Patterson 6724 Lotus Trail 6660 Lotus Trail 6680 Lotus Trail 6730 Lotus Trail 6900 Lotus Trail 6871 Nez Perce Drive 6728 Lotus Trail 600 Broken Arrow Drive 22 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Todd Hoffman gave a staff presentation on this item. Andrews: Is there anybody from the audience here that wishes to speak about this? And if so, please keep your comments as brief- as possible. Thank you. Nadine Patterson: I'm Nadine Patterson from 600 Broken Arrow. I live just one house up from the beach. Unlike a lot of people, I've lived there for 24 years and my family moved here with the understanding that, they lived by a beach and...build the parking. I do believe there's a parking problem...I'm going to get a police record and I know not enough tickets are issued for parking and I don't know what the ordinance would be on bringing boats into the beach but I think there's probably more problems during the day than there are at night and if we put a light there, we're going to be asking for problems at night. They're going to open up that park for people at night. If the park closes at 10:00, the park should close at 10:00. That doesn't mean we should turn on the lights...! know when I was younger we'd go...go hang out and that would cause a problem. We have far more problems during the day obviously to take care of before we decide to...a light at night. There are docks down there. I know there's...How do you clean up after them? They're a danger. Those dogs are not trained. Those dogs bite. They're annoying. I just don't see a need for putting a light up there and adding more problems on top of existing problems we already have. Andrews: Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak about this issue? Jan, why don't you start it off. Let's go through quick. Lash: I guess I'm really tom on this one because I agree, Eilene? Nadine Patterson: Nadine. Lash: I agree that I think a light a lot of times can attract more business than you want to eliminate and sometimes they can correct the problem. I think the problem is enforcing it and maybe we need to encourage the residents at this time to call any time they see a violation and get some enforcement for the fIrst item on the agenda. If you get enforcement and try to eliminate some of the problems through enforcement. And if that doesn't work, maybe we want to go back to the light and see if that's a possibility. Meger: Yeah, I guess I would agree with what Jan said. I think enforcement is the fIrst step and then...and maybe look at the light in the future. Huffman: Basically the same thing. Enforcement. This is the same issue everybody's having. 10:00 is when the park's supposed to be shut If you have a light, it stays on all 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . night. It doesn't shut off at 10:00. Then you're going to come back here in 3 months and ask if that light can be shut off at 11:00 when you're trying to sleep. It never ends. Andrews: I guess I agree that my concern is if we put a light in, I think it's more likely that there will be a request probably within a year or two to please come take the light down and it costs quite a bit of money. We have a fairly limited budget. This comes right out of our budget and there aren't many areas that have greater need in my opinion so I guess I would argue that this would be combinable with the fIrst issue regarding enforcement, which I again support rigorous enforcement. That's it for me. Roeser: I have nothing further. I agree with everybody here. Manders: The only thing I would say is that I don't know that the light really addresses the issue where all the activity is happening, which evidentally is away from the parking area and down in the beach or along the lake. So I don't see that the light really addresses the problem and enforcement really has to be it. Andrews: Let's have a motion then. Pat McRaith: Can I say one thing? . Andrews: Yes sir. Could you state your name? Pat McRaith: Pat McRaith. I live on 6900 Lotus Trail. Enforcement, could we schedule that a patrol car would come by at 10:30 or something instead of, I think a car comes by at 4:00 a.m. You know 10:30 and try to enforce it that way. Tell people that the park is closed. Is that a possibility? Andrews: I think it's a possibility. We have to ask if it might be possible if our public safety offIcer could be at our next meeting. I guess that's exactly what I'm intending to ask is why can't we step it up. It doesn't necessarily mean we have to step it up for 500 consecutive days. Normally if you do it for 30 days or 45 days and just hit it hard, usually you'll set the example that's required so I guess I would argue that's a reasonable request. Resident: Will this be in conjunction with that same meeting with the other park? The public safety thing. Andrews: I don't see why it wouldn't be. That's more efficient for us and certainly for you too so. And it's dealing with the same park technically so. 24 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Manders: I would move that we not put in the light and bring this topic up at a future agenda for enforcement. Andrews: Is there a second to that? Lash: Second. Manders moved, Lash seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission deny the request for a street light by Ronald and Barbara Rostad at 6890 Lotus Trail and to bring up the item of enforcement as a future agenda item. All voted in favor and the motion carried. NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING: CATHCART PARK. Public Present: Name Address Merlyn & Betty Wanous Gary Carlson 6231 Church Road, Excelsior 3831 West 62nd Street Todd Hoffman and Bruce Chamberlain, the Shorewood Park Planner, presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: I have one question on that ballfield. Approximately what's the, like from the third base spot, how far is it to a street there? Are we within easy ball through the windshield distance there? Bruce Chamberlain: From the street it's approximately 60 feet. Andrews: That's a pretty good sized foul zone, okay. Bruce Chamberlain: But it does get closer as it gets to the outfield. Andrews: But fewer balls go that far also. 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah, the intent of this field is not as a true Little League field. The younger kids play on this and the City of Shorewood has... Andrews: Like pee wee baseball? Okay, very good. Manders: How many rows of trees would you expect that the outfield would roll into? Bruce Chamberlain: It won't roll into any more than 2 rows and it won't take up... We think that there's going to be some very selective trees that need to be moved but we're not sure what the number is but it doesn't encroach on a... Andrews: Does the word removed mean destroyed or moved to a new location? Bruce Chamberlain: No, it means destroyed. The reason is, Todd and I and Jim Hurm from the City of Shorewood walked the site. We took a look at quality of the trees and the possibility of moving them. With the cuts there, they're not the highest quality trees. Soft maple. There's some ash and the way they were planted, close together and the lack of pruning over the years has made them less than desirable trees. I don't feel that they're worth... Huffman: Do you have a timeframe on that temporary warming house because we all know . when you're dealing with the government, there's nothing more permanent than something that's temporary. Is there a timeframe there? I mean are we talking 3 to 50 years? Bruce Chamberlain: Definitely. The City of Shorewood does not have in their capital improvement budget, which goes out 5 years. At this point it actually goes out to 1998. It's not in their budget for '98. But it is on their more important list. Huffman: It will be done when 212 is done basically? Bruce Chamberlain: I hope it's done before that. Huffman: Make it a nice temporary warming house would you. Hoffman: It will have the same warming house at North Lotus Lake Park this year and it's not in your budget... Andrews: Any other questions from the commission? Is there anybody from the audience that has any comments about this project? 26 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . . Gary Carlson: Good evening. My name is Gary Carlson. I live at 3891 West 62nd Street. I live in the Cathcart home built in 1886. I've lived there for 25 years so I've gone by the park, spent quite a bit of time in the park. It's interesting, new members of our Park and Recreation Commission. You're lucky, lucky dogs. You get to pass on improvements you don't have to pay for, and we appreciate your time and...and we appreciate the fact that you're spending some money in Chanhassen. It is a really nice neighborhood park and the improvements that Shorewood has done through the years have been very good and a lot of Chanhassen residents have actually used those improvements. Starting at the beginning, the key word is capital. They're going to spend some capital. Just like you do, when you have some money in your budget at home, you try to spend it on the most needed thing first. Don't you? If you need a new car you, and some capital will become available from Shorewood to spend again on improvements, which by the way it's about time that Chanhassen spends some of their capital on this park because there's been a lot of improvements. I've put in 16 nice home lots and a lot of that area is going up up there and all that money is pouring into the Chanhassen Park, I mean $400.00 I think for my lot went into your budget. As soon as you got all the parks improved down here in the city center, we appreciate it that you would take some interest in our park out there. But in the meantime, only Shorewood is spending their capital. Let's use it most wisely. What's happened in this park is because of it's unique nature of being in Chanhassen, Shorewood can do things and none of the residents ever get notified. This is the flIst meeting that any of the residents have ever been asked to come and get some information on the park that's right next to them. Because Shorewood gets to go in, the city of Chanhassen will do whatever they want. So we appreciate the fact that finally there's a neighborhood meeting. And by the way, the city of Shorewood is having a Park and Recreation meeting tonight. Started at 7:00. This very thing. So while we're meeting down here, they may already be passing something up there. Right? Bruce Chamberlain: Mr. Chairman, that's.incorrect. They are not approving anything in regards to Cathcart Park. ...city of Shorewood has yearly neighborhood meetings regarding the park improvements as well as park... Gary Carlson: Well we've never been notified of any of those improvement meetings on any improvements that are coming...but I can tell you some of the things that have arrived in the park and none of the Chanhassen residents have ever known. But getting back to the most important thing is, they're going to spend some capital. Now what's needed at that park? The first thing that's needed at that park is to remove the NSP, four power poles that are along West 62nd. The only place that they're along West 62nd is along this park. There's the new church that went in, it's all underground. All the new services over here are underground. All of my development is underground and everything along the west side is underground. So people come in there to fly their kites, kids are in there flying kites quite . 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 often, and it's unsightly and there's several power poles along there. That needs to be done. The park... That's a capital improvement that you can just go ahead and do. You just notify NSP that hey we'll pay. They have a certain fee per pole to bury. We'll absorb some of it and the city will absorb some of it. The next better improvement is that you do with every picture, if you put a frame around it. This is a beautiful neighborhood park. We have neighbors here that are adjacent so it's just lawns. You don't need any picture framing there. Here you have curb and gutter on this side. You have a paved street, no curb and gutter. This side you have a gravel road. Now some capital is going to be needed to be spent to have a curb and gutter road. Yes, there's two residents here and I'm the third resident. I own another piece of property down here. I've already given the city full right-of-way with...the assessment but then there's a parkway along here that's only 16 112 foot wide. So someday the park's going to have to give up half and these two residents are going to have to give us half. Even if they don't give up half, you need to frame this with something. It's just a gravel road. It dumps. The improvement here needs to be looked at. The overall park and start spending the capital a little more wisely. The improvement that's needed, this is a real good shed area for water. It sheds off of the ball diamond which is mowed lawn. They mow it every few days. They're going to put in a big parking lot now. The hockey rink sheds water and the tennis court sheds water. All that water is shed off of there and no one can get by with this if you're a developer. If you want to develop a piece of property and you have to set 5 home sites, you have a holding pond for all your shed water. You can't just dump it over to Mr. R's property because he happens to be down hill from you. You have to hold that and dump it at the same rate that has been dumped at for the last 100 years. You have to retain your 100 year rain. There's no talk in, that is a capital question that has to take some capital funds and find out what they're going to do with this water. It can't run uphill. This is uphill on West 62nd. They've been dumping back down here and these residents are alL.that amount of water. Right now...do with that water. That additional shed water that's going to come from that parking lot. Now that's all part of the problem on this west side that's just a gravel road. And if you're going to do capital improvements, let's picture frame the park and put a decent curb and gutter along this so it has, you can say this is the park. When you put that gravel road along the west side...and no one knows what to do with it The Park Commission doesn't know what to do with it...think about it because they're going to spend some capital funds. I can tell you a little bit about why it's going to be a parking lot Because the whole Shorewood Planning and Park Commission is all ladies of child bearing age. The first thing a lady wants to do is where can I park my car when I go to the park. Where can I park my car when I'm going downtown or going to the mall. Where do I park my car? So that's why suddenly we're getting a parking lot. By the way, this is a small park. It's a continuous little park. It's about 5, 4 112 or 5 acres. Now suddenly we're going to rush and enclose to a third of it and throw in a big parking lot. It's a neighborhood park so is this the right answer for parking. Is this the right answer for parking? And in order to answer that, I would say yes, we do need parking but there are 28 . . . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 some other alternatives and I can tell you what they are. And again, they would come from improving the western picture frame boundary. You could do a phase 1 and phase 2. They come from West 62nd Road. You'd have pull in parking. You see what I'm saying? Pull in parking. You wouldn't have to move trees. You wouldn't have to move ball diamonds. You wouldn't have to go to all this much capital improvement here. Just pull in parking. Every main street in every small town has pull in parking. People back out from the pull out parking into the main street of their town day in and every day. All those people and it's not a safety problem for every small town. ...the amount of traffic on some of these roads. They can do pull in parking there very easy. Plus it would picture frame. It'd be all the cars and all the related accidents that can happen to cars out in the street near the trees...middle of the park. And kids still cross in here on bikes and walks. I've been there for 25 years and they pull in. This morning there was at least 12 cars pulled in here parking because of the tennis courts down here. I'm sorry I'm long but you've got to realize that in 25 years and never being asked what to do with my park, it's kind of nice to get it off my chest. But they're pulling in parking right now. They pulled in...12 cars to go to the tennis court. Andrews: Mr. Carlson. Gary Carlson: Nobody's parking, if you put it up here, they're still going to pull in down here to go into the park. Andrews: Mr. Carlson, can you move. We've got 11 more agenda items. Can you move onto your other points please if you could. Gary Carlson: Okay, so I would suggest that the best use of the capital improvement for parking would be pull in parking. Number one, it's safer and easier to park. You just go in and swing wide... Andrews: Can you talk about other issues other than the parking? Gary Carlson: And the third reason is the church is right here and they can use the parking after their expansion. I just would like you to further pass onto the city that you would like to have those capital improvements to... Andrews: Thank you. Gary Carlson: That there are other alternatives to spending that money. Andrews: Is there anybody else from the audience who wishes to speak about this park? 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Merlyn Wanous: Good evening. My name is Merlyn Wanous and I live directly west of this park. I've been there since 1960. The park in fact, when those trees were planted, I provided the string and the water for the Girl Scouts to plant them. Mr. Keeler... Okay, like Mr. Carlson states, what I see as a solution for this parking is like he suggests. This drive in parking. The people that are parking...basketball court. I'll bet you that is not used 5 or 10 hours per year. You could have a lot of parking along here. There's a swing set and a slide. That could be moved over here into the play area. You've got a lot of area here where you could park. They park by the tennis courts. They park along the hockey rink. We'd have ease of removing the snow. If you would have the parking lot over here, you wouldn't have to have the cost of moving any of the baseball items or associated with the baseball. The field would be left as is. The people are parking there now anyway. You know they're driving off of, this is soft and if it was improved to a certain extent, there could be a lot of parking here and right along here. Instead of taking this valuable land and as far as these trees are concerned, they're nice but nobody's going to be able to move them. They're at least 10 inches or more. They're about 30 feet tall. That...it's going to have to be bulldozed. Some of them should be removed anyway to make a nicer park but this would be a real nice play area and I do, I think the trees along the south end...but I see a lot of valuable land and a lot of expense in my opinion for parking. And the church does have parking. I understand there's concern that kids are running across the street. Now we live right along here. Now there's no parking here and they've been parking along there for how long. In fact we talked . to the man in the city and they're going to put some no parking signs there. But the kids, there's a fence all along this area that prevents them, but still the cars are parking here. But I think the training and this is, a lot of money, in my opinion. In my humble opinion, is being spent and taking up valuable space so I would think you'd start considering the west end. I don't know if you need all the road improvements like Mr. Carlson suggests but it would be nice. I know it's a cartway. I've been before the Council for many years. In fact Mr. Griese who lived down here, I went before the Council and tried to get them to accept the road probably 30 years ago and they never did and it's still a cartway. That's all I've got to say. Thank you. Andrews: Thank you Mr. Wanous. Anybody else from the audience wish to speak about this? No one else? Did the City of Shorewood consider pull in parking in their plan? Bruce Chamberlain: We did talk about that in preparation of the master plan and it was never considered as a viable option because of the safety concerns. Andrews: I have another question. That would be, there are some play areas on the property currently. Are those play areas likely to ever be improved where we would need to provide ADA access? And are we going to have our parking area anywhere near those proposed play areas if ADA access is going to be provided in the future? 30 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Bruce Chamberlain: There will be play area improvements and we'll be providing a trail that will be at no more than 5% grade to the play area. Andrews: Okay. And the planned play area is located where on the map? Bruce Chamberlain: Right here. Andrews: Okay. So it's a long way from really any proposed parking area then? Bruce Chamberlain: Correct. Huffman: What would people be backing out of? If we do pull in parking out there, what are they backing out into? It's one thing to pull out of quaint little town. It's another thing to pull into a 4 lane highway. What are you pulling out into? Hoffman: For the information for the commission and the audience, members of the audience, they need to be aware that West 62nd Street is within the city of Chanhassen and the City of Chanhassen would not be in favor of approving pull in parking off of that street and backing up into that street. It is a residential thoroughfare. It narrows down to a curve and then a narrow intersection would be a traiL.so both the streets that are being discussed this evening are within the city of Chanhassen and they would be addressed, any improvements to those streets would be addressed under a separate issue. Andrews: Okay. How about the drainage issue? Is that something that's talked about before a project like this goes ahead? Bruce Chamberlain: The City Engineer for the City of Shorewood is the organization that's preparing the plans and specifications for the parking lot portion of this project. And the street, West 62nd will be improved in the next few years and along with that, drainage issues are going to be addressed as there is a drainage problem in this area. The parking lot will be draining towards 62nd. Not into the park. Andrews: So the intention would be that there'd be some sort of a storm water collection system put in later? Bruce Chamberlain: I'm not, on the park I don't foresee that, no. Andrews: Okay. 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Huffman: A question. Power poles going across the top then. Is it possible to bury those? Is it possible to just get rid of them and put them underground? Bruce Chamberlain: That will be done along with the street improvement. Andrews: Okay. Huffman: Drainage. Parking. Power poles. Gravel road. Anything else? Gary Carlson: No. I appreciate that. Andrews: Well the gravel road issue, I mean speaking from my viewpoint, I don't see how that benefits the park to be honest. Lash: Well it has nothing, I mean we have no, there's nothing we can do about that. That would be a street improvement. Gary Carlson: It would have been a paved road here sooner but Shorewood has always in the position of always been we don't want to accept any more assessments. We feel that the park has got a road. In other words, if there was one road going to that park, and if that road . was adequate enough to service that park, Shorewood wouldn't care what you did with the other roads because they didn't want to pay for any more improvements on the roads. Shorewood's position has always been along that west side is, we don't want to pay for any improvements. But now I see the new joint venture. They don't have to assess each other so if Shorewood were to change their position over the next 2, 3 months, I wouldn't be surprised because now they don't have to pay for the improvements... . Andrews: That's really a separate issue. It really is. Lash: I see in the memo that we have that in the agreement, the authority and responsibility to improve this park in accordance with capital improvements...Shorewood. I mean do the maintenance and that's all we do. So that's the agreement. There really isn't. Gary Carlson: If this is the best improvement, then for sure we don't want to lose an improvement, you know. Andrews: Okay, let's get a motion on this and move ahead. Roeser: What do we need a motion for? 32 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Andrews: I think we need a motion or a resolution of support here I guess is what we really need here. Huffman: With ongoing discussion involving...community people who have never had a chance to voice before. Lash: I can't imagine that Shorewood wouldn't have a similar policy as Chanhassen that anyone affected by things like this, are notified. So if you're not being notified, I'd call the Shorewood City Hall and ask to be- notified of any future. Gary Carlson: I have been there. Andrews: I guess I'd send them a certified letter and if they didn't notify you of a meeting pertaining to that park after receiving a certified letter, I guess I'd argue they'd probably be in violation of some law. Because I know that when developers own property here and there's any action going on with it, we have to send them notices that we're discussing the land so. I think it's unanimous here that we would support the City of Shorewood improving a park that we get to use so I don't think we need a formal motion do we Todd to move ahead on this, or would you like a motion of support? Let's have a motion of support then please. . Roeser: I move we support Shorewood' s plan for improvement of Cathcart Park. Andrews: Second? Lash: Second. Roeser moved, Lash seconded that the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission support Shorewood's plans for improvements to Cathcart Park. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING: SOUTHWEST REGIONAL LRT TRAIL. REVIEW REOUEST OF SOUTHWEST METRO TRAIL ASSOCIATION TO UTILIZE CORRIDOR FOR SNOWMOBILES. Public Present: Name Address Daniel & Kathy Smith Bob Steffes 1020 Hesse Farm Road 1350 Hesse Farm Road . 33 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Karen Dee Georgia Kandiko Lee K. Anderson Willard Halver Todd Kurtz John Heerdt Cheryl Marszalek Allen Koenig Mark Briol LeRoy Biteler Bill Roberts Bill Kullberg Brad Blomquist Jeff & Brenda Meredith Jussi Leliti 1201 Hesse Farm Circle 10421 Bluff Circle, Chaska 10441 Bluff Circle, Chaska 470 Flying Cloud Drive 5215 Polk Avenue, Mayer Rt 1, Box 40, Mayer 10360 Heidi Lane 12610 98th St, Cologne 10377 Heidi Lane 910 Penamint Court 880 Lake Drive P.O. 34, Navarre 7141 Derby Drive 1050 Butte Court 8200 West Lake Court Todd Hoffman presented tbe staff report on tbis item. Mark Briol: I don't think many people who have adjacent land to that track got notification of this meeting. I got notification yesterday and my back yard... . Andrews: Sir, I'm going to invite comments from all members of the audience here very soon so, in fact I'll do that at this time. Anybody wishing to speak about this issue from the audience, please step to the mic. State your name and address please. Willard Halver: My name is Willard Halver. I live at 470 Flying Cloud Drive. That's just close to the line. Oh about half a block or 3/4 of a block between the old, where the TH 10 1 railroad bridge was. I've lived there 37 years and it seems as though it's been a little bit of an ongoing problem for me and I've lived with it. My house is about 250 feet down the side here and it wasn't so bad when the railroad was in there. Certainly the trains coming through kind of kept the things in order but this past spring now, we've had 3 wheel all terrain vehicles up on there. 250. Unlicensed. Tearing up and down the bluff area. Up behind Sorenson's buildings to the railroad, the old railroad right-of-way. Past my place. Up through where Dr. Momoe and the other people live on the bluff. They've got regular trails in there and they're running...evening or not. If you went back far enough from my place you would see it. Andrews: We rode all the way through there tonight and we. 34 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . . Willard Halver: ...and back up and make a run...anyhow, what the climax to the whole thing, I've kind of overlooked this. We were gone for the winter and we came back last April and I knew this was going on and I just let it ride. 10th of June my wife and I usually take a little nap in the afternoon at oh, 1 :00, 1 :30, 2:00. And the dog barked and something funny was hitting the house. And I was kind of half asleep and she was kind of half asleep and the... we didn't think too much of it and then fmally the third piece hit the house. So I got up and looked around and I couldn't see anything and I went outside and here I started picking up a rock here, a rock there. Four pieces of rocks. Now this is this crushed stuff off the edge of this railroad bed. So I take it upon myself to go up and fmd out where and what was going on. I just missed the culprit. He got back on on the all terrain vehicle and was down the road when I was up there. You could see in the weeds where he had parked. And he has to get over about 250, or maybe 300 feet so that's an awful arms throw. You've got to be better than Kirby Puckett in order to throw that far. Now it was only...4 to 6 rocks that I picked up in my yard. And I called Scott Harr. I had to go through the iron curtain to get ahold of Scott Harr. I could get ahold of Scott Harr. Then finally he took my call and made a report out on it. I was told to call the Chaska Sheriff's Department, which I did. Well gosh Mr. Halver, they're out on an emergency right now. It's going to be some time before they come. I went back up the hill. Here comes this ATV, just going...at that point I had to hide behind the trees. The wife looks out the kitchen window and here is Mr. Culprit looking and he saw her. He tore on the all terrain vehicle. It did come over the scanner and the owner of this business, of the Sorenson building and the guy that did the dirty work, took off out there and we never saw them for 2 more days. This is why I called Scott Harr and I sent a letter to him 2 weeks ago and I haven't got an answer. I said what's going on down there. So public safety to me is a sh word. We don't get the support we need. So I am against until, ...until we get some law enforcement on that trail. There's been tires dumped out there on that trail. Hennepin County's got it posted now so it's...but there's a garbage dump out there because I go out there every once in a while and walk and I used to walk when the railroad was there. I've lived there for 37 years. But until we get some law enforcement there, I'm against it 100%. And like I say, there's nothing from preventing these 3 wheel all terrain vehicles from putting a ski on in the wintertime and using them as a snowmobile. So the minute this permit is granted for snowmobiles, how many other types of, they can roll on them with tires. How many other types of vehicles can use it snowmobiles. Thank you. Andrews: Thank you sir. Mark Briol: Members of the panel, I appreciate your patience. I did not get notice of this hearing, nor have I gotten notice of any other hearings before this panel relating to what constitutes basically my back yard. Andrews: Could you state your name and address. . 35 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Mark Briol: My name is Mark Briol your honor. I got notice yesterday when the neighbor stuck a notice in my box. This was my response today. I had no idea that this was going to used as a bike trail, much less a snowmobile trail. Snowmobile trail or anything else. I contacted the Minnesota Attorney General's office and the Environmental Quality Board and they're generally wondering whether or not there's a mandatory environmental assessment statement that needs to filed. And if not, whether the petitioning process can take place. Second of all, I want this Board to know about the safety concerns I have of anything taking place back there. I've called 911 on more than one occasion to complain about people shooting in my back yard. They go back there and they hunt deer and they hunt everything else. I don't know what's going to happen now with respect to the hunting regulations in my back yard but people are shooting in my back yard, which is right by where those railroad path is going to be. I have some serious concerns. I go back there once or twice a year to see what my back yard is like. I walk down the trail. I pick up pop cans. I pick up shotgun shells. I pick up garbage. Who's going to take care of the littering? In terms of safety concerns for people along the path, if you walk the path today, if you went down there, you'll see as you go down there that there's a significant drop off on the incline. It can go down 10 or more feet and they go down in the marsh and things like that. Well who's going to pick up the garbage down there, number one. Number two, if there's going to be snowmobiles in there or if there are going to be people on that trail, there should be guardrails. There should be something to keep people from falling off that path and getting injured. Second of all with respect to physical safety, I agree with what this gentleman has said. There's no police . protection out where I am. I've got to call 911. I have never, in the 5 years I've been there, seen a police car out in Hesse Farm, or anywhere near Hesse Farm. Not even to pick up speeders. The only way I get a police car out there is if I call them. And I pay a significant amount of property taxes. Fire hazards. Now if there's going to be increased traffic back there in the, I don't want my back yard to turn into a Los Angeles. It gets very dry back there on occasions. If there's going to be increased traffic, and people are going to be tossing out cigarette butts, I'd as soon not see any cigarette smoking on that trail. I don't want somebody to toss a cigarette butt off and have my whole back yard torched. And if you know the way the development is put together, the woods go all the way up the hill and they surround the houses. I mean if that place gets torched, everybody's house gets torched because I don't see any fire hydrants out there. I don't see where anybody could come out there and make any kind of reasonable approach to public safety to save the environment if the place goes up. Second of all with respect to snowmobiles. I've got to tell you this. Last year I was walking with my daughter down one of the paths on the east side. A snowmobile came buzzing by us. They came up behind a horse. Now the horse couldn't move aside. Either he was, the path just wasn't wide enough. So the horse rears up and bucks and the snowmobiles continue to follow it down the path until fmally they get to a place where the horse can go aside. I'm not sure the paths are wide enough to be able to sustain either snowmobiles passing each other or people walking on it at the same time snowmobiles are on 36 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . there. It just is, I'm concerned I've never gotten notice before. I responded in a timely manner and I hope that you consider both, whether or not you're going to make a path and two, what you're going to use it for. Thanks. Andrews: Thank you. Dan Smith: Members, good evening. My name is Dan Smith. I live at 1020 Hesse Farm Road in Chaska. I say Chaska because that's our mailing address but we're in Chanhassen. We're down in that little part of the city where we get no services until things like this occur. The easiest thing to do is just say no. You know, don't do it. Snowmobiles, absolutely not. It's not a good spot for it. People who are affected, you know are the ones who are going to put up with this garbage. We also did not get notification and I appreciate my neighbors getting me to this meeting because it's a tremendous annoyance if something like this occurs. You've got the opportunity here. Eden Prairie's already saying no. Chaska's going to make up their mind in a few years but just stop it right now. Andrews: Anybody else from the audience? Resident: I don't need to state... . Andrews: Thank you. Anybody else feels the same? Resident: Well I too live on high...and the snowmobile traffic that already illegally uses that trail makes a terrible noise. It's something that wakes up somebody from sound asleep. If it's a sanctioned snowmobile trail, I'm concerned that the use will be continuous all night and all day. Andrews: Anybody else have any comments or more than a few seconds, please do step up and state your name and address. Not only is it good that you get on the record but the Council does get copies of the Minutes. It may be important. It also might make it easier for us to notify you if there's future hearings. Resident: Would you like our names and addresses? Andrews: Well there will be a sheet that goes around. Why don't you make sure you get, if you're not. Lash: And if you are not on...chances are you're not going to be picked up for the record. . 37 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Bob Steffes: My name is Bob Steffes. I live at 1350 Hesse Fann Road. I'm the neighborhood president for the east association. I've been getting mailings regularly on any action for the neighborhood yet on this one we did not receive a mailing. Is there any reason why this one? Huffman: There's a conspiracy. Roeser: Todd, is this an official public hearing? Hoffman: No, it is not. Mr. Steffes is on the mailing list that was prepared for this. Daniel Smith, 1020 Hesse Fann Road is on the list. Dan Smith: Are you mailing it to Chanhassen because we don't get mail if it says Chanhassen. Hoffman: The addresses are Chaska, Minnesota 55318. And then again your letter...1025 Hesse Farm Road was on this and... If they did truly not get their's...we'll fmd out. As far as...computer generated and if that street is not listed on that search so that was an error and that will be corrected. Andrews: I'd like to ask the people that did not receive mailing today, or by today, if they . do receive them late, that they contact the city office and note how many days it took them to get their mail so in future hearings that an appropriate amount of mailing time could be used. Resident: Only one person in the neighborhood received a mailing and that was Howard Noziska, if I'm not mistaken. Howard was a past member of I believe the Planning Commission. Maybe that's why he was notified but in the past we... Andrews: Yeah we do but I have to also point out that occasionally on city mailings that I've gotten them the day of a meeting and that's cutting it awful close. Resident: Who maintains the trail? There's just some general questions about who will maintain this trail once it's constructed. Huffman: Do you want to start at the beginning and just explain where the trail is too? I mean it's the railroad bed we're talking about. We're not talking about your neighborhoods and streets and things of that nature. Okay, we're talking about the railroad bed. 38 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Resident: Right. There's a trail there existing already on the south edge of the Hesse Farm property. Huffman: Correct. Resident: Right, absolutely. And who's going to maintain that once it's constructed? It's finished now... Hoffman: As everyone knows, it's owned by the Hennepin County Regional...at least as the commission is aware. Hennepin Parks has an agreement with the HCIA to utilize that trail and that corridor as a trail. Hennepin Parks is the governmental jurisdiction in charge of it, thus they will be maintaining it. Unless they make some agreements otherwise... Resident: So it will be maintained if it's damaged by snowmobiles or other forms activity? Hoffman: That's correct. Andrews: Could I ask Todd to clarify too. The jurisdictional control of uses. How that's determined so everybody is aware how that's working. Hoffman: Hennepin Parks obviously they have the agreement with people on that property. However they have to look to each individual municipality to take the initiative to find out what the residents, the user groups of the individual communities would like to see take place on that trail. Thus they have given the individual communities the liberty to hold these type of neighborhood informational meetings. This commission has held these, on this specific trail dealing with horses. The horse groups. The snowmobile groups. The commission has looked at 2 years ago at taking this project upon themselves. The commission was not...to it. You've taken a look at a variety of things 'over the years. But for everyone's information, Hennepin County's jurisdiction stops at Bluff Creek. The City of Chaska then...to the city of Chanhassen has maintained the segment from Bluff Creek Drive to the Highway 212. Resident: So the present trail is off limits to all motorized vehicles, is that correct? Hoffman: The operations policy has not been established. Resident: I thought that had. Hoffman: The Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority has notified properties that no motorized vehicles. Hennepin Parks has not... 39 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Andrews: And that's why we're here tonight. Resident: The Southwest Trail Association was mentioned in the letter. Hoffman: They have spokespeople here this evening... Resident: Okay. The only other thing I'd like to mention is that the use of snowmobiles on that trail~ill ruin the use of the trails for other things such as cross country skiing and other activities. I don't think they will mix very well. Thank you very much. Huffman: Real quick, Mr. Briol? You talked about the public safety never has been around. You've never been to a Jim Huff's birthday party then in your neighborhood? Mark Briol: Ah no. Huffman: Okay. Georgia Kandiko: I'm Georgia Kandiko and I do wish to go on record as being opposed to opening this trail for snowmobiles. I live at 10421 Bluff Circle. I did receive notification, thank you very much and this one is at my back yard also. It is a noisy problem already. . When it is established as a snowmobiles are allowed to use this. They already are using this traiL.so I'm adamantly opposed to this...thank you. Andrews: I'd ask to indulge the commission with brief comments. We've got a whole bunch more to go yet tonight so, alright. Thank you. Resident: ...I just have one question with regards to maintenance of the trails by Hennepin County. Does that include trash pick-up? Hoffman: Yes it does as far as I understand. They had sent out a mailing that they would be holding a meeting in this regard to the municipalities I believe on July 17th at their headquarters at French Regional Park. That was one of the items on there... Resident: I would just state that I also am opposed to snowmobiles... Karen Dee: My name is Karen Dee at 1201 Hesse Farm Circle. This also is part of my back yard. I did not receive notice. I'd like to go on record as stating I'm very opposed. In addition to the safety and environmental concems...integrlty. We've made several inquiries and have always been told there was no motorized vehicles. I would hope they live up to that. 40 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Roeser: I can tell you this about all Hennepin County trails. They don't go out on motorized vehicles on their trails but see we've been given the authority to decide that in Chanhassen. Karen Dee: ...go through Hennepin County and Carver County...that there would be no motorized vehicles. Roeser: Yeah. I ride their bike trails a lot and they don't. Andrews: Is there anybody here from that snowmobile association that wish to make any comments tonight? Leroy Biteler: Good evening. My name is Leroy Biteler and I am a member of the Chanhassen Snowmobile Club. A member of the Southwest Trail Association. I guess to start off with, I was happy to see on some of these letters that were sent in that there was at least one that had a positive note to our trail system being allowed on railroad beds. In comments from some of the things that have been said, snowmobilers in the past in our community have encouraged and brought on through law enforcement to our trail system. Not only has the DNR been on our trail system, patrolling the trail system. We, as a club, have encouraged and called and arranged with Carver County...somehow on our trail system with some of our own personnel and patrolled the trail. What I'm saying here is that we have assisted and will continue to assist in helping patrol any trails we have in our trail system. We would like to get even more involved in that standpoint but that may not be as easily done as what we would like it to. It's not unusual for railroad lines to be converted to trail systems to have motorized vehicles with skis. Such as the county. We have a trail system that runs through Shorewood and out to Victoria which has gone from rail to trails and allowed snowmobiles. Andrews: Is that the Luce Line? Leroy Biteler: The Luce Line is one. What is the name of the one in Shorewood? Is that the Luce Line or is there a name for that? Roeser: The Luce Line's in Wayzata. Resident: The Luce Line goes out through Orono and out... Leroy Biteler: And the one in Shorewood going to Victoria. Resident: It has not an official name right now but it has been taken over by Hennepin Parks. 41 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Leroy Biteler: Okay. As far as an environmental issue, I really don't think that is an issue on a railroad bed that is now going to be a gravel bed. There has been, we have done with respect to decibels with snowmobiles and sound, how far, how far they will transmit the sound and we have been documenting some information here. One of the gentleman that actually was involved with doing those tests on one of the railroad beds that at one time was a problem. He may speak later. As far as the width of the trail, Todd do you know how wide this trail is going to be? Hoffman: The trail would be 10 feet from the shoulders. Leroy Biteler: 10 feet is plenty wide enough...for snowmobiles to pass. Resident: Oh no... Andrews: I'd have to state that we drove this in a Chevy Suburban tonight and it was amply wide for that to drive the trail, and a Chevy Suburban's at least 8 feet wide. About 8 feet wide. We had plenty. Hoffman: The specifications on the trail are 10 feet wide which... Resident: The sign says no motorized vehicles tonight. . Huffman: I was pushing. Leroy Biteler: That being the case, it is most definitely wide enough for snowmobiles to pass. Our trails, our Southwest Trails groom the trail systems so that that will maintain a width of 8 to 10 feet because we'll be able to groom that both ways. As opposed to just having one track run down with a snowmobile. As far as Eden Prairie. Eden Prairie has not had the trail system for some time. It's no surprise that they do not want us to coming towards that Eden Prairie direction. As far as Chaska, I believe there's someone here from Chaska...basically looking at the snowmobiling in their community and seeing where it's going to go. It's not been...deal as to whether they will or will not have snowmobiles in Chaska. This trail will be a benefit to Chaska as well as to us as to make it a safer trail and easily accessed to get away from making it areal close resident. As far as cross country skiing. The snowmobile will not bruise the trail. Generally speaking a cross country skier would generally prefer to run on a packed trail, whether it happens to be packed by a snowmobile groomer tractor or a snowmobile. Andrews: I'd ask that members of the audience to please hold your conunents down. We do invite everybody to speak without being interrupted. Thank you. 42 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Leroy Biteler: As a matter of fact the cross country skiers have a grooming system which they groom and compact a place for the skis to run so we will not be ruining that trail. As long as the snowmobiling is allowed in Chanhassen, I'd like to basically keep it as safe and proper as possible and that is one of the objectives that this trail will do for us. I'd also like to maintain a safe recreational activity in Chanhassen as long as possible. Our local club as approximately 73 members. We've been very, very active in the community. Trying to patrol our trail system and the community... Meger: Mr. Biteler, can you speak a little bit more...about the safety aspects. I believe when you addressed us earlier you talked about how this trail would eliminate a lot of the ditch riding and some of the... Leroy Biteler: Right now our trail system goes down CR 17 to the south to Lyman Blvd and then go to the west, which all of that area right now is ridden in the ditch line. When we get on Lyman Blvd and go to the west, we have to get up onto the shoulder of the road, which is directly at traffic. Our lights must shine directly into the automobiles windshields at night and that is unsafe for both the automobile and the snowmobiler. This route right now would take us, once we get Lyman Blvd from CR 17, we would then go east on Lyman Blvd until we hit the lake. Lake Riley and from that point we can access the railroad bed virtually eliminating the having to run in ditch lines and...with a number of things and automobiles, we're eliminating that automobiles are a problem with meeting one another. And really it appears to me that there are very few homes that are really very, very close to that railroad bed. In my mind I see a couple of homes, having to drive down that railroad bed, that are close to that railroad bed. Lash: What do you mean by close? Leroy Biteler: I can only see two homes. Lash: Are they right next to it or is it 200 feet away or? Leroy Biteler: One of them is probably 125 feet away. The other one happens to be the house which is right on the edge of Lake Riley that has some horses in a fenced in area. That is probably 200 to 300 foot. We actually don't cross their properties...that part of the railroad bed. It's closer to the Eden Prairie side. Hoffman: Chairman Andrews, this overhead references what Leroy was discussing. I should inform the audience that the dashed line represents the trail which is marked on their plan. This dark line here is not a part of their plan. I just showed it for illustration purposes to show what they're asking for this evening. 43 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Andrews: Anyone else from the audience. Pardon me, are you done Mr. Biteler? Leroy Biteler: No, I'm done. Andrews: Okay. Anyone else with comments, I would again beg that you keep them brief. We have a very long agenda tonight and we need to get through as much as we can. Dick Putnam: Mr. Chairman, my name is Dick Putnam. I don't live here but in just listening and we have a bit of experience. Huffman: Where are you from? Dick Putnam: Wayzata. I have the next item on the agenda, if it helps. A couple things. We have leased land in Eden Prairie to the Southwest Trails Association for probably, I don't know 10 years I suppose. Throughout Eden Prairie connecting to Chanhassen for a dollar a year or something like that. And I'll give them a lot of credit. We've never had one single problem with them doing that. As the land has developed however, their trails have just gone away and we've not had any requests for the last two years. Secondly, we're developing a project on the Luce Line up in Orono which is 46 single family lots. We've got about oh maybe a third of a mile frontage on the Luce Line. I would recommend that the staff probably talk to the city of Orono and the other communities, Plymouth, Wayzata on out. . There are different restrictions on what can be used on the Luce Line depending upon where you are. As it stays further out, the further west you go, the more activity is allowed. So snowmobiles are only allowed as you get to the far end of it. I think you would probably be well...to look at the requirements that those cities have along the Luce Line...in Eden Prairie, we have a development on either side of this same trail and probably a half a mile of property... We have looked at that trail as an asset Not as a light rail corridor but as...same thing is true with the Luce Line. Those folks I know were very concerned about having a trail in their back yard but if it's maintained properly and developed properly, from a developers standpoint... Andrews: Any other comments from the audience? Bill Kullberg: My name is Bill Kullberg. I'm the Trail Coordinator for the Southwest Trails Association and I live at P.O. Box 34, Navarre, Minnesota 55392. I'd just like to discuss a few things when we were talking about a railroad corridor. Even if Chanhassen does... non- profit corporation. We were organized by 8 clubs in the southwest area at this time and... We have the funding available to make this a multi-purpose trail so everyone gets to use it. Whether you're a cross country skier or hiker or biker, horseback riding and so forth. We put up stop signs. We have the availability of doing any of the landscaping and correcting of any 44 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 of the steep slopes...1n the city of Shorewood, it's a highly dense populated area. There's a lot of traffic coming off of Lake Minnetonka feeding into our trail system and we've been working with that city very diligently since about 1985. We still have a trail in a highly populated area. We have a curfew there at 11:00. There's no motorized...there's a 20 mph speed limit. For the last couple years now there have been more than a couple of complaints per year now and the cops are down there with radar so there is ability to take care of these kinds of problems. We do not allow 3 wheel vehicles or ATV on our trails. I believe the Carver County Sheriff's Department has a special unit now. They have two snowmobiles and they have...in fact they ask us for different activities that they can participate or trail patrolling and so forth. They have two Polaris snowmobiles and seeing that this trail goes right into Chaska along rn 212, and their Sheriff's office is just about a stone's throwaway from the trail up in Chaska... We also have a conservation officer...Thank you. Andrews: Anyone else? Resident: I'll be brief. My name is...regarding cross country skiers concerning the packed trails by snowmobiles... And the other one is the... Andrews: Thank you. I'm going to cut off any more comments at this time. We've got to take action or we'll be here until tomorrow morning. Any comments from the commission members about this? Manders: I guess initially I had, after reading the material, I was contemplating something along the lines of some type of yearly review of motorized vehicles but from what I'm hearing, I'm prone to vote against any kind of motorized activity on this trail. Roeser: I guess I really kind of, my heart goes out to the snowmobilers. It's a legal activity and those people do hold licenses. They do pay fees to ride those things and I supposed it's the same old thing. There's a few people that screw everything up for you guys and that's kind of sad. I noticed over the last couple years that they've gotten quieter. You know you don't hear the roaring. I cross country ski and I don't think we can, I think we'd have a real problem with cross country skiers and snowmobilers on that trail. Especially when you get... there is some danger there so I don't know if you'd be willing to accept speed limits on a trail like that. I really have a, I really can't make up my mind when I think about it. I don't see the snowmobilers as the villains that all these people do. I don't see them as, you know they irritate me a little bit out in the woods too because I can smell the gas you know, but golly it's a legal thing and it's something we sell. It's an economic thing. I guess I would like to look at it a little more. I can't decide right now whether I would want them or not. 45 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Andrews: I'll be brief because I want to get home before tomorrow morning. I do not support motorized vehicles on this trail at all, in any form. That's it for me. Huffman: No motorized vehicles during the summer at all. There shouldn't be motorcycles, 3 wheels hanging around there. I like snowmobiling. I make no bones about it. You're in the winter. Your houses are closed. It's the doppler effect. It goes...go by. Or we also have a right to have other people in your neighborhood hear about that so if we do anything else I'd recommend that we move to put this forward so that other people can talk: about. The Hennepin County corridor here it says, in their minds we've got...but however it should not be construed that cross country skiing will not be allowed and I cannot consciously think that even if you're 20 mph, somebody on a pair of skis loses to somebody on a sled. And I love snowmobiling as much as anybody and I cannot in my mind allow that to happen. If there's people walking about or potentially walking about, you can't have a sled there. Meger: I agree that there be no motorized vehicles in the summer. I guess I lean a little bit more towards allowing snowmobiling on this trail. I'm not a snowmobiler. I'm a cross country skier and from what I know of the area, there seems to be a lot of nice trails for cross country skiing and the snowmobilers continue to be shut out and I have concerns about their riding in the ditches. Lights shining into my eyes as I'm driving so I would prefer to have something on a trail. I would defmitely go for a curfew. I would probably move it . even to maybe 10:00 and defmitely a speed limit as well. Lash: I want to try to remember that our responsibility here is to provide recreational opportunities for the citizens of Chanhassen and that is currently an allowed activity and it is really feeling the squeeze from development. The more the city develops, the fewer spots there are for snowmobilers to go. And unless we would decide to ban snowmobiling totally from the city, I think it's part of our responsibility to allow a safe place for them to do this. Now I have concern with cross country skiers too but as Jane said, I think that there are more opportunities for cross country skiers so I would support the snowmobiling on the trail. I would not support summer activity because I would like the summer activity to remain the walkers and bikers and joggers. And I would definitely want it to be defmed with hours and speed limit and I would want it to open for review. Andrews: Why don't you make a motion and see if it will fly. Lash: I would move that we allow snowmobiling as the only motorized activity on this trail with the conditions that the snowmobile club would sign it and that there would be enforcement of the speed limit and that there would be a curfew and that we would review this item yearly. 46 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Andrews: Is there a second to that motion? Meger: Second. Hoffman: And the clarification of Commissioner Huffman...whether or not it would be cross country skiing or snowmobiling. Hennepin Parks...and maintain this for cross country skiing in their operation because they do that at many of their regional park facilities. Thus they do not want to do that. If the city of Chanhassen is going to...if you would like to designate it as a snowmobile route, and then appeal to the other cities, obviously you have to consider the city of Eden Prairie if you want to make this route occu.r and then you have to have it approved by the Hennepin Parks Board. You can do that as well... Andrews: I don't think Jan intended to exclude cross country skiers. Lash: I don't look at it as a compatible use. Andrews: You would like to see this as a snowmobile trail, designated trail, okay. Resident: So I just need a little clarification here. You say in the winter time you only want that to be available for the snowmobilers? Lash: Well I guess I don't look at it as compatible with cross country skiing but if people want to cross country ski, I guess I wouldn't personally have a problem with that. Resident: Assuming they don't get killed, right? Lash: Right, and that's my fear. What's why I'm saying personally I don't think it's compatible. I would worry about the cross country skier and snowmobiling... Resident: So let me...you're voting to make it a snowmobile trail during the winter...is a form of recreation. Do you think there's more snowmobilers than cross country skiers? Lash: I said there are a lot of other opportunities for cross country skiers. Resident: Where? ...in Chanhassen. Andrews: Please, order here. It's late and it's going to get real late here if we don't control this. Resident: Just clarification. I understand what you're voting on. 47 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Resident: Obviously the citizens of Chanhassen who own property don't matter. Huffman: Absolutely. Lash: There is a motion. Andrews: We have a motion and I think we're all free here to state our opinions as we wish and I think you're jumping to a conclusion here that we have certain opinions here so let's wait and see what the discussion is. Could you restate the motion please. Lash: Okay, the motion is that we would allow snowmobiling with the conditions that the snowmobile club would post it, sign it. There would be enforcement of speed limit and a curfew and there will be no other recreational vehicles allowed on this trail in the summer. Andrews: No motorized vehicles other than snowmobiles in the winter time only. Lash: Other than snowmobiles. Andrews: And I believe what you're saying is that this trail would be designated a snowmobile trail but cross country skiers would not be prohibited but they would not be recommended. Lash: Right. . Andrews: Okay. That's I think what we're getting at here. Is there any further discussion from the commission? Huffman: I would almost like to see this moved forward so the neighbors could, you know we've got a group of people here tonight who, I mean the association is well organized. I mean they're documented. They have done an outstanding job in the community. They do a phenomenal job with their trail system and everything. We also have a neighborhood over here who feels like they have been almost railroaded into this meeting and...but I would almost like it to move forward for another time so they can sit back a little bit and maybe have the people do care a little bit, and have an opportunity to... Andrews: Our action tonight is not formal action. It would then be moved up to Council I believe, correct for formal recommendation to the Hennepin County Road? Hoffman: Yes. 48 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Andrews: Okay. So there'd be another opportunity even if we vote, not in the way you would prefer us to vote if it's your... Any more discussion? Lash moved, Meger seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission would recommend to allow snowmobiling as the only motorized activity on the Southwest Regional LRT trail with the conditions that the snowmobile club would sign the trail, there would be enforcement of the speed limit and curfew and that the Park and Recreation Commission would review this item yearly. The motion was tied with a 3 to 3 vote. The motion failed. Andrews: Does that mean it carries Todd, or fails? Motion fails. Okay, so that motion failed. Can we have another motion? I think it probably could split here, which would be no recommendation at all, which is acceptable. I guess I'll make a motion that motorized vehicles be prohibited for the trail. Is there a second to that? Manders: I'll second that. Andrews: Any discussion to that? Andrews moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission would recommend to prohibit snowmobiling on the Southwest Regional LRT trail. The motion was tied with a 3 to 3 vote. The motion failed. Andrews: Okay, I guess then I'll say it right now. We have no recommendation to be made. We'l1 have to pass this up to the Council and say that the Park Board is split. We're not going to get any farther tonight by beating this to death so, thank you. LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FOR PROPERTIES ZONED RSF TO PUD (46.56 ACRES): PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR 74 LOTS OF MIXED HIGH DENSITY (186 DWELLING UNITS). 15 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS AND AN OUTLOT WHICH WILL CONTAIN DWELLING UNITS: AND VACATION OF A PORTION OF WEST 86TH STREET. THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED EAST OF HIGHWAY 101 AT WEST 86TH STREET. MISSION HILLS. TANDEM PROPERTIES. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: Mr. Putnam, if you'd like to address the commission. Again I would ask, and I'm sure you will, keep your remarks brief. 49 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Dick Putnam: Well I guess at this point Mr. Chairman, I would ask, let me just quickly... There was one other issue that was discussed at the last meeting, which was almost a year ago. Hopefully you can all see this. This is the proposed TH 212 corridor. Here's the proposed park on the south end of Rice Marsh Lake with TH 212 to the south. And our project sits in here just to the east of TH 101 and the TH 212 freeway on the south. Another area that was discussed was this parcel, or actually two parcels south of the extension of 86th. It's currently an open field with kind of gently rolling and there's a little.drainageway that goes through here and then down into lake and a marsh that we share on our property. The discussion was whether or not that property if combined with the wooded portion makes sense as a future park, particularly with the highway department purchasing this land as it conceivably could purchase it all the way up so they didn't have to sever the Klingelhutz property to the south. And that was a discussion that the city was going to look at, whether or not they would do it Whether the highway department would be doing it to provide some green field recreation space. I'll let Todd respond to that. I don't think there's any defmite answer that we have because TH 212 is, lord knows what's going to happen with it. That was one of the issues that was discussed in dealing with the open play field space. This is a plan that we discussed with the City Council last night. Basically a couple things to respond to the staff's concerns relative to the amount of playfield space or open space. What we looked at is a temporary pond that's being built here that's about a half acre in size that will eventually go away and that water will be taken down to a major pond the city's going to be . building along TH 101. Also an area right through here that's about a .8 of an acre adjacent to the wetland in the southeast comer of the site that has a hill and then some open field space on the top and a nice pretty area along the marsh. Also there's a field space here, about a .4 of an acre of so that we had proposed as berming but we'll develop this just a grass field area at this point with plantings around the edge as well as a developed totlot. We have a concrete sidewalk that runs on Street A, north/south. There's a trail system along the south side of the street. Whether it's bituminous or concrete, I guess that's your choice or the city's. We'll be doing an asphalt trail system here as opposed to wood chip and we'll also do either limestone or wood chip trail system here and connecting in a loop. It also will connect to this site as it turns into a park. I guess with that Mr. Chairman I'd be happy to answer any questions. The plan is really the same as what was proposed previously with the addition of those areas. Andrews: Any comments? Lash: I would like to hear the comments from the City Council last night. Hoffman: On behalf of both the Planning Commission who reviewed this at the preliminary stage, the preliminary plat and the City Council, it would be fair to say that they were 50 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . uncomfortable with the size of the totlot play area, and that is the reason they referred it back to the commission for review. Andrews: Any more comments? My comment is that, to talk about a play area being a pond and not really having any definite time of when it mayor may not cease to be a pond, to me is the definition of blue sky in my opinion. Also we've, I've been on this board I don't know how many years, but I think it's 5 I think. One less than Ian I think but every time we get into a density project like this where we don't take adequate land at the time the project is conceived, and we rely on adjacent potential developments to provide spaces for our needs, it always comes back and bites. We have no idea when those other properties could, might, will develop and I personally feel it's, a project of this density, to rely on a third of an acre to provide a play area is not adequate. To call a field, a playfield something that's something roughly about 10,000 square feet. I lived on a lot of about that size and it wasn't wide enough for me to throw a frisbee. So that's a small area. Dick Putnam: I guess I went and reviewed the Minutes from the last meeting and we had that discussion and I asked I guess what the city park fees were for and what you were looking for. The intention on this project is not to develop a 4 or 5 acre neighborhood park. Andrews: That would be about 10 times larger than you're providing. I don't think we're . asking for that. Dick Putnam: Well I guess my question is, what are you asking? In Todd's report he asked for an acre and a half park, is that correct Todd? Hoffman: Recommended, yes. On the... Dick Putnam: An acre and a half park is ~1most the size of the field they just played the World Cup Soccer game on. That's 1.7 acres in the Rose Bowl. A football field is about an acre and a half. I don't have any problem with that except that we're at the final meeting on a project that hopes to start in a couple weeks and we've reviewed all of the Minutes and all of what was approved. A plan that, at your last meeting, a plan that we brought in and that was approved is this one and it's, I guess as identical as we can make it with the exception of increasing some areas. We were led to believe in your Minutes and Planning Commission and staff, that what you were looking for was a basketball court, benches, a place for, since these are retirement type units. One level, geared towards retired folks frankly. Empty nesters moving out of existing single family homes. These units are catering to newly married couples. Single people. If they do have children, they're very small children. So the totlot makes a lot of sense. Those were the type of things that we were trying to provide. We have Rice Lake Marsh Park about a quarter of a mile away to the north from our . 51 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . boundary. A park to the south and some future development. At no point were we led to believe we needed to provide a football sized gamefield space in the middle of the project, and frankly it's impossible to do it at this point without frankly having a long area where we take out 16 units or down here and you'd be taking out 16 units also and I guess to be honest I don't feel that it's very fair that at this point in time, at the very end of the project, I guess you'd contradict what you had told us. Andrews: I'm trying to read the Minutes here from August of 1993. I do see the motion which states in a vague sense that we ask for more space. I'm trying to locate where in that discussion did we make any reference to how much additional space. It would take me a while to read through it. Dick Putnam: Let me put it up on the board there. Lash: At one point it says. Dick Putnam: This is from the August 24 staff report. I think it's, I can't tell you what page it is in there but, if you read the shaded in paragraph. This is from Todd's report. The total area of Lot 6, Block 1 is quite small. However, in.the range of 1 1/2 acre. Staff is proposing this amenity be private or association. Components of the facility to be at the discretion of the applicant that typically include a landscaped grassy area, picnic table, benches, play . apparatus, tennis and basketball courts, etc. What we discussed at your meeting was this plan and I guess if I had come back with, oops, excuse me. The plan that we originally had which wasn't as good, and which the staff and you had suggested to take out the buildings here. That's that Lot 6 which you're talking about, and change the site plan accordingly, that's what we did. We changed it and I guess we get down to quite frankly we received this staff report Friday and the game had changed a little bit and I guess we're in a bit of a dilemma to try to do that. It has a dramatic impact of 16 units on 186 units or 190 units. That's a pretty significant reduction. The other problem that it is to do that, we end up with over 400 feet of street that has no use. I mean we end up paying for it to border a park and the play station is a private association space, which doesn't make any economic sense nor is it necessarily a good...to that kind of space. We're also, I guess I might say when you say that the ponding area will go away. It's our understanding from the city that the TH 101 project is going to go ahead in the very near term future and the ponding and storm sewer business goes with that hand in hand. I'll be the rust to admit that what happens with 212 is anybody's guess. And we all understand that. Andrews: Yeah, I'm trying to read through the Minutes here. I don't see reference to a specific acreage but there's many references to additional acreage and there is some notes 52 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 here about you making a comment that with this additional space requirement, that you may lose density and therefore increase pricing but it doesn't give specifics. Lash: Well on page 41 of the Minutes, I'll start with my comments. Because we've got potentially 400 people there and obviously a half acre just isn't going to cut it. We have to set some guidelines that we usually use. Todd went on to say that it's typically 1 acre per 75 people. And then I said, I guess it would be probably beneficial for the applicant to hear from the Park and Rec Director what our normal guidelines are so at least they have an idea so they don't come in with something that we'll still find unacceptable. Dick Putnam: May I ask a question? Andrews: Yes. Dick Putnam: We heard this guideline of 1 acre per, how many people? Lash: 75. Dick Putnam: 75 people. Does that apply across the board to private development or is that for public parkland purposes? Hoffman: For public parks. Dick Putnam: Okay. So what impact does that have on a private association or our project Trotters Ridge? We have 33 homes x 4 is probably 200 people. There was no requirement to provide that kind of play space. Hoffman: In this instance it's used as a guideline. In the case of Trotters Ridge, we acquired 4 acres of property on that plat and there will be a much larger expanse of park property just to the north. For the information of the commission, in reviewing this, we talked about Lot 6, Block 1. That area as represented on the original plans is about .63 acres. An acre and a half would be represented on this plan by Blocks 5 and 6. ...to state the or to quote directly from the Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting held on June 1st, this past June 1st. The size of the totlot was discussed at length at the June 1 st Planning Commission. The commission felt that the size of the totlot should be increased by an acre. It then goes on to state, on behalf of the City Council, that the Park Commission agree... Huffman: So the Planning Commission at some point said the totlot should be increased by an acre? 53 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Hoffman: Correct. Roeser: Is that what the Council felt the same way? Or hasn't the Council discussed it? Hoffman: The Council talked about it last night. They were uncomfortable but they did not make any specific recommendations other than to... Dick Putnam: Todd, could you please to us what the Planning Commission recommendation was. It's kind of like when you pick out Minutes, just like on the discussion with the snowmobiles. What the discussion is isn't necessarily the motion that comes out of your body and I ask that you all remember that. Simply because one person objects to something, doesn't mean that's the opinion of the whole commission. And that's exactly what happened at the Planning Commission. They did not recommend, Todd, that it be an acre totlot whatsoever. I'll go grab the Minutes but I read it pretty carefully. They deferred the decision to you folks because they didn't want to step on your responsibilities. Lash: In our recommendation in August, it says since this is only a, this is directly, this is the motion coming out of the commission hearing... Since this is only a conceptual approval, I think our motion can be somewhat more vague than our other motions. My motion would be that we would recommend the applicant provide additional park space than what has been . proposed and then it goes on to the other conditions. And I seconded that. So at that point in time I guess we were thinking, I'm going to assume this was what we were thinking, that this was conceptual and you were going to come back to us again and if we found it acceptable, fine. If we didn't, you'd go back and fIx it again and I don't know that we had any kind of understanding that we were under any kind of a time line that was going to infringe on your rights as a developer here to, you know I understand you only have 2 weeks left to redo this. In August we thought conceptually had a lot of time. And it's been almost a year, it is a lot of time but I'm kind of wondering, you're on a time line, why didn't you come back sooner? Andrews: I think what we expected was to come back with okay, here's our response to the commission. Is this closer to what you wanted and now it seems like what you're saying is the bulldozers are already started and I've got to get moving. And I don't think that's the way we responded to you. We were asking for a time frame that would provide you with the time that you needed. This is our fIrst chance to see this. I don't know if it's been a situation where you've been unable to get through city channels or have just had your own projects that you've been too busy with. Dick Putnam: I was pulled off your last agenda I believe it was by Kate from the Planning Department because the DNR objected to something and their objection was completely wrong and the staff here said, DNR you're wrong but otherwise we would have been there. I 54 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 guess what I'm appealing to is the fact that these two plans, the one from a year ago that we brought to the meeting and we discussed the change and took out the buildings, was what was approved and what's been discussed with the staff, with Planning Commission for this past year. Andrews: Sir, it was not approved by the Park Board. Our motion, you know verbatim says that we were asking you to provide additional space so we did not approve the plan as it was proposed. We asked you to take it back. Dick Putnam: Maybe I'm reading from the wrong one but the applicant shall provide a recreational amenity in the vicinity of Lot 6, Block 1. This facility includes typical park amenities. Hoffman: Dick, you're reading our recommendation. Not the motion by the Park Commission. Lash: The first part of the motion says the applicant shall provide additional park space than what has been proposed to accommodate the future use of the residents in this development and then it goes on to... Dick Putnam: Could I ask a question? What more would you like proposed? And if so, can we just simply set aside an area and use the $110,000.00 or $115,000.00 in park fees to acquire it and develop what you want? It sounds like what you want are public recreation facilities as opposed to private association facilities and I guess our understanding was that you have the cash park fee at $500.00 a unit to cover that. Lash: Well I'm looking at the recommendation from staff and you're saying a minimum of 1.5 acres is what we're looking at. Dick Putnam: I know what the staff is saying now. The staff also told us that this was a 1.3 acre park and they misread the plan, okay. Is that correct? I'll bring the plan out. There are parenthesis around the .3 and they misread it and that's how it got in the report as 1.3 acres. And we said, where did you come up with 1.3 and they said, well that's what the plan says. We said no, it doesn't. And then they looked and they said, oh my. Roeser: But that doesn't make it right or wrong and the fact that they misread it. Dick Putnam: I know but the question comes up, 1 112 acres, I don't know where it came from. It was a complete shock to us when Todd's report came out with 1 1/2 acres in it Friday. That's pure and simple and when I read that it's based on a 1 acre per 75 people, 55 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . and then I see there's about 400 people here, to me that's a 5 acre park. It's not a 1 112 acre park. And I'm real confused because at one point the standard is used to say you need to have a W orId Cup Soccer field basically as a recreation area and then I turn around and I see the cash park fee which we're glad to pay you know to build those kind of facilities where they belong. Not in a retirement and young working people, young family kind of development. So that's where Our confusion is and if I appear a little bit stressed, it's because it's coming up at the end of the program. Not at the beginning which was over a year. Hoffman: Chairman Andrews, may I respond? Andrews: Please. Hoffman: First off I wish to stand corrected by Mr. Putnam. What I read out of the last night's staff report prepared for the City Council was not verbatim Minutes. This was a portion of the item, the information presented to the City Council. The issues as it...totlots, park and trail facilities and again the size of the totlot was believed to be 1.3 acres. That was an error presented in the staff report by the planning staff, which they apologized to the City Council and the applicant more last evening at the Council meeting. The Planning Commission recommended the size of the totlot be increased. In regards, so that addresses those two issues. In regards to the 1 acre per 75, again that's just a standard which the city . maintains for public open space throughout the entirety of the city's park system. That is not what the 1.5 acre was based on. That number is purely arbitrary. It's picked out of a hat. 115 feet square, which is 23 acres, this hardly seems adequate for a private or an association area. I heard from the Park Commission last August that you would like to see it increased. I heard from the Planning Commission that they would like to see it increased and I heard from the Council that they would like to see it increased. In regard to pulling the rug out from the applicant at the last minute, we traded phone calls for the past couple of weeks. We certainly could have had the opportunity to discuss this earlier but that did not happen. This is the formal review process presented to the commission. This is your opportunity to look at this as a preliminary plat. We have not misled the process in any way, shape or fashion and those are my comments. Lash: The play area from the original plan to this plan, has it been changed at all? Dick Putnam: No, not really. I mean this is the modified plan that we discussed at the last meeting right here and this is the hard line version right there. It hasn't changed in terms of other than what you color green I guess. That's it. We were trying to put in the things that made some sense. The basketball hoops. The benches. The trails. That kind of thing around the wetland. The totlot. Landscape it from the surrounding units. We were not 56 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 trying to build a ballfield or anything. It just isn't appropriate in this kind of site. We've got about 2 1/2 acres of open space right here which happens to be pond and marsh which I think you saw this evening which is real pretty. And it's, for the folks that are living here, the things that they're going to be using are much more passive. They are not going to be looking at playing softball or soccer in the neighborhood in an acre and a half park. Huffman: But there's nothing wrong with taking that acre and a half and splitting it up into the land be gardens or areas that would be more beneficial to people who would enjoy that sort of thing. Dick Putnam: Well I guess after talking to Todd, we said alright. If that's the interest, let's take a look at what we can do with some of the open spaces in the site and instead of berming and landscaping them, let's put them into grass field area. More this kind of an area here. This area here that will go away is another open grassy area. That was a way of responding to that, which people 1.7 or 2 acres of space between these spaces. It's not all consolidated together. Andrews: See my problem with this is, you know I live on a lot that's about 3/4 of an acre roughly, and I can't imagine 450 residents trying to pile into an area twice that size and what we're talking about is an area half the size of my yard. And I just can't imagine that the needs of, and I'm not, you know it's intended to be retirement. I understand that and empty nesters but people move in. They move out. They have kids. They don't have kids. Or whatever. It just concerns me that we're providing an area so small that really in my opinion it provides almost no uses and I just feel like we need to have at least one area large enough where if a kid wants to hit a baseball, he can hit it without crashing into one of those buildings. And right now, under this plan, that just can't happen. Dick Putnam: You're right. This is not se,t up as a ballfield space. Lash: Well and I think what's Todd saying, 1 1(2 acres, that's...no. It's not going to be a baseball field like we may put in most of the neighborhood parks. So I think by not requiring the full amount that we normally would, we're saying to you, we know this is not going to have the typical use of a neighborhood park. That's why we only think it needs to be 1 1/2 acres. That will provide the base for people who live there and empty nesters have children. Not children living there but they have adult children and those children have children and they come to visit and they need a place to go and I just feel like the .3 acres is not going to do it and I think we've communicated that last time. Dick Putnam: How about if we look at, and we had this discussion the last time. Evidentally Lundgren Bros was here before us and were talking about selling you land at more than they 57 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . bought it for. We made the statement at the last meeting, if the city wants a 4 or 5 or 6 acre neighborhood, it's your's. You can assume our contract with Al Klingelhutz and purchase those 5 acres or whatever it might be and we'll just take out the units and adjust our park fee and we'll probably pay for it. If that's what you want to do. We don't believe it's our business to get into providing ballfield space, I'll be honest with you. Andrews: Well you are credited. I mean that's an exchange of values. Dick Putnam: We aren't credited, we're paying the full cash park fees. Andrews: Oh I'm sorry. I apologize. Lash: This is a PUD so he won't be getting credit for this space. Dick Putnam: No, and I don't object to that. I guess what I do object to is, on one hand saying pay the cash park fee, which is intended for you as the city to put the parks where you want them rather than to get a bunch of 4 acre chunks from all the developers around. They're impossible to maintain. I understand why you're doing it But then do it. Don't turn around to me and say, now by the way, our 75 per 1 acre standard, we'd like you to also throw in that kind of space in your development as well as pay a cash park fee. The comment to you was, let's do one or the other. If you wish to locate a park here, we'll be . happy to just, you can assume our contract on that acreage. But I think it's really unfair to try to do both to us. I really do. Especially when, I guess what we tried to accommodate was what we envisioned and what we thought you wanted, which were not the baseball fields, based by your own Minutes and everybody. And that's, you know we don't need to beat this to death. That's kind of our position. Manders: Well it's getting close to be, it's close to that but I had a couple questions. Just my guesstimate of this is that the one half is going to be retirement and the other half is going to mixed. Kind of like that so about half and half. So you figure where that play lot is, you're going to have the families, kids and that stuff in there. What kind of numbers do you expect in terms of kids? Dick Putnam: Well, probably the closest project to this is in Eden Prairie on Jamestown which is on property that we had that Rottlund built. A very similar unit to these buildings. I think there are 100 units on that site and at the last count there were maybe 7 or 8 kids. There is no totlot. There is no play space in that project. There are very few children. The children that are there are by and large very young. They're a couple that may just have had a very small children. The units are not set up as family housing, I'll be honest. I mean that's not their design. 58 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Manders: The point is they sell and things turn over and there's going to be numbers there. If I recollect from last year, the other concern that hasn't been brought up is the other bordering lots and the density of this unit being such that you know where else are they going to go if they want to do something other than out in the street. And if you've got such a small area, that's really the only place within that development for them to do anything is either bordering some of these other single family residents and the recommendation...that we want some more space. Now whether it has to be an acre and a half, it just seems that that .3 is just too small. Andrews: Can you put that back up again? Roeser: That's a tiny little park. Dick Putnam: And then the park to the south along there. Hoffman: Bandimere. Roeser: That again is another little neighborhood park. Andrews: Mr. Putnam, can you tell me approximately where that park...that's shown there, about how much distance is there from the roadway to the edge of the usable land near the wetland? From the proposed roadway, yeah. Dick Putnam: From here to here? Andrews: Yes. Dick Putnam: About I think maybe there's 140 or 150 feet. About half as wide as a football field. Andrews: Okay, and that current lot is about 110 feet wide? Roughly. Dick Putnam: This one right here? Andrews: Yes. Dick Putnam: It's wider than that back here and it's probably 95-100 feet wide. Andrews: I'm just trying to envision in my own mind about how much space does a kid need to throw a football, and I know this is not tend to be lots of kids but I agree with what 59 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Jim said. Kids need to be able to go someplace to have fun or they will get in trouble. They'll play on the street. They'll throw rocks or whatever but give them a place to throw a football or hit a ball. Not necessarily in an organized field but just a place to play catch or something. I guess thinking in my own childhood, I think you need an area about 200 feet in order to have enough room to run around. And I guess I'm looking at the depth of the lot I think is adequate. Is there enough width there to get us about 80 more feet without critically damaging your project. Dick Putnam: To get another 80 feet, 80 to 100 feet this way? Andrews: Roughly, yeah. Dick Putnam: Well it would take one of these two buildings out. Lash: Is the lot to the right, is that Lot 6? Dick Putnam: That's Lot 16. This is 15. Lash: Okay, so most of those are the old numbers. Dick Putnam: Lot 6 referred to the original plan that you see here and that was... . Lash: But I didn't see any from suggestions from the Planning Commission way, way back. They didn't say in the vicinity of Lot 6. It said all of it. Dick Putnam: That was Lot 6 back then. Those squares. Andrews: Is there anyone from the audience here that can help us find our way out of this, we'd appreciate it. Sharon Nickolay: My name is Sharon Nickolay. I live at 8500 Tigua in Chanhassen and I live about right here. In this cul-de-sac. And we were very concerned about this... development and some of the neighbors were concerned about it going in. And we're getting used to the idea but we're very concerned now and we have been to several of the meetings. Your's and the Planning Commission, the City Council and others and I'll echo what you had said. Mr. Putnam refers time and time again...! think you have about 200 units here. Lots of concrete. Lots of buildings. No green grass. Very little green grass. He says that these are garden homes and retired people are going to live there. There's no law that says a young couple with kids can't live there. I would bet there's going to be kids up here. There may be kids down there. For 200 units, if there's only 3 people in each unit, that would be 600 60 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - lune 28, 1994 . people. And I think .3 of an acre is an insult I think even if they're retired people they're going to need a place to sit. A place to watch the birds or feed the birds. Go watch the kids play. I think this little grass here on the ends is kind of an insult. We're in a park deficient area. My kids cannot get to a park except by automobile. There's no path. They have to go down TH 101. And you could put 600 more kids here. 600 people. And it's not..park. I need a park to play volleyball or softball and throw a frisbee with my dog or whatever and those...Adding up all these little...is still less than 2 acres and it's...! just think you know, apparently the vision 2000, there's going to maybe a park along 212, if that ever happens. Well it's a nice vision but we had a vision of 212 and 101, we've had lots of visions in our area and nothing has happened. If we're going to put people here now, or within the next year or two, we have to put park there now too. And I'm not saying it has to look like Rice Marsh Lake or it has to look like Meadow Green or whatever but I think we need something that's adequate for kids to playa pick-up game of ball. Or to have a picnic or to do whatever. Where are these kids going to go? I don't want them biking down TH 101 to another park. And I don't want them in my yard. So I guess that is all I had to say. I guess I'm hearing Mr. Putnam over and over that...well Mr. Putnam will take his money and be out of there but I will live here for a few more years with those 200+ families and so will you and this is the first time I think that we've had such a high density proposal for development in Chanhassen. Please be careful what you do with it. If people may be...people. They may be social security people with very little money that they still need, they still need some land . in front. And I think that's it. Thank you. Andrews: Thank you very much. Any other comments, otherwise let's move along on this one. lim, anything to add? Ron, anything to add? Roeser: No. Andrews: David. Huffman: No. Andrews: Jane? I'll put a motion on here because I just want to get home as quick as I can. A PUD provides a developer with a lot of flexibility in development, including high density developments. Yes, it does put him in a position where he's not getting credit for his parkland but at the same time it allows him to develop a project of much higher density than would normally be allowed so I think there's an exchange of value already provided. I feel that we must provide an adequate open space here for potential different types of residents that may occupy this over a very long period of time. So I would submit again that this project not be allowed to proceed without an area of 1.5 acres in one contiguous site. I think to provide acreage spread out all over the project does not provide really what we're after . 61 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . which is an area that does provide a multi-use type of an opportunity. That's my recommendation. Lash: Are you going to attach any of the other items? Andrews: The other recommendations. Where are they, page what? From the old minutes. They don't need to be changed in any way, do they? Jan, if you'd like t~ add those for me if you've got them because I don't have my page flipped to that. Lash: Okay. That West 86th Street ...in concrete on, concrete sidewalk along Street A from West 86th Street north to the street's terminus. And that a concrete or bituminous material instead of woodchips and full park and trail fees will be collected per city ordinance. Meger: I'll second. Andrews moved, Meger seconded tbat tbe Park and Recreation Commission recommend approval for tbe pun for Mission Hills subject to tbe following conditions: 1. The applicant shall provide an additional 1.5 acres of contiguous parkland to accommodate future needs of the residents in this development. 2. Concrete sidewalks be constructed on the south side of West 86th Street from Highway 101 east to the project's terminus and on Street A from West 86th Street north to the street's terminus to accommodate a future trail extension looping back to Trunk Highway 101. . 3. A bituminous walk be constructed encircling Wetland No. 15 connecting the sidewalk system to the park site. In consideration for the construction of said trail, the applicant shall receive trail fee credit equal to the cost of construction, said cost to be determined by the applicant for presentation to the city with documentation for verification. 4. Full park and trail fees shall be collected at the time of building permit application per city ordinance. All voted in favor and tbe motion carried unanimously. 62 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: HARSTAD COMPANIES TO SUBDIVIDE 35.83 ACRES OF PROPERTY INTO 38 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS AND A PARK LOCATED ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF. RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY AND LOCATED NORTH OF KINGS ROAD AND WEST OF MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY. THE OAKS AT MINNEWASHTA. HARSTAD COMPANIES. Public Present: Name Address Sue Morgan Ellen Joy McDonald Pat and Ralph Karzewski Judy Royer Sarah & John Maney Linda Scott Harvey & Suzanne Sobel Harold Taylor 4031 Kings Road 7096 Red Cedar Cove 7054 Red Cedar Cove 7074 Red Cedar Cove 7078 Red Cedar Cove 4031 Kings Road 7024 Red Cedar Cove 3861 Stratford Ridge . Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: Is there anybody from the audience that wishes to speak about this issue? And if so, please state your name and address and we'd appreciate it if you'd keep your remarks as brief as possible. Thank you. Sue Morgan: My name is Sue Morgan. I live at 4031 Kings Road. Just south of, off of the park. I just have one question. Is there going to be an entrance from the sidewalk off of Kings Road into the park prior to Minnewashta Parkway, or has that not been decided? Andrews: We have not even decided that yet. No design at all yet. Is that correct Todd? Hoffman: Entrance from Kings Road? Sue Morgan: Into the park prior to getting to Minnewashta Parkway. Lash: You mean just by foot. Sue Morgan: Just by foot. . 63 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Hoffman: At least on the conceptual plan the entry point would be down in this location. Lash: But there's a sidewalk going all the way along Kings Road. Is there something that would prevent people from entering the park from this side? Hoffman: No. Andrews: Any other comments from the audience? Does the developer have anything, oh pardon me. John Maney: My name is John Maney. I live at 7078 Red Cedar Cove. My is more of an informational issue. On the lake side of Minnewashta Parkway it's just designated as park. Is there a beach planned in this area for public use? Andrews: We have made no decisions. I would say, and I hope I'm not out of line here but I believe at this time we have no intention of making that a public beach. Lash: But we have made no decision. Andrews: Nothing official's been decided. . John Maney: Where would the decision process start? Andrews: It would be the same as any other thing. It would be a recommendation from the park board and then the Council would have to approve it. Hoffman: And that process would start once we acquire the property. John Maney: And this would happen as the Council approves the fmal plat? Hoffman: Correct. Lash: So after the City acquires the property, then we would start the planning process of what facilities we would put into the park. Huffman: Quickly, what are your thoughts on that? John Maney: I guess we have some concern, as close as it is and as narrow as it is, for a public beach. And you probably are aware that Lake Waconia had a similar site that now they are talking about stopping the crossing of a major thoroughfare. 64 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Andrews: We're aware of those concerns and that's why we're, I would say it's extremely unlikely we'd do anything. I mean it would take a lot of convincing to show me how that could be a usable and safe beach. John Maney: And we have a number of other issues...contiguous to the site. Andrews: As far as the actual park development itself, that would be, as Jan said, after the parkland is acquired. Then normal process would be to solicit input from the neighborhoods as to what uses they're interested in or what uses they're defInitely not interested in. And we would take that back and go through a design process and more hearings so we're looking at a lengthy project. I don't want anybody here to have an expectation that like a year from now there's going to be a park here that everybody will be able to use. That's not going to happen. It will be years away before this thing will be completed. So it's a slow process with a number of opportunities for input. John Maney: I guess we want to just express, there are a number of people belonging to the association contiguous who have serious concerns... Andrews: Sure. Is there a separate association for the Red Cedar Point area? Separate homeowners association. Okay. I would encourage if there are any organized groups like associations, that you give your name and address to the city if you're interested in being notified. Just to make sure that you are notifIed of any hearings. John Maney: Our's is the Red Cedar Cove Townhome Association. Andrews: Okay, very good. Harold Taylor: My name is Harold Taylor. I'm at 3861 Stratford Ridge which is just to the north of this and our association has 550 feet of lakeshore just to the north of this. I think there's one individual who's not here and we're also concerned with the development of the park and that we're involved in the decision process... We've had some problems, actually in our own association...and things like that so we just want to make sure that I guess we don't get carried away with 7 acres as to what type of facility that it can be with this very narrow strip of beach access to the lake which basically... Andrews: I think it would be fair to say the Park Board's interest was more in just that we needed a piece of land somewhere west of the lake, not specifIcally that it was actually on the lake. In fact we looked at a number of parcels in other areas too so I mean we like having the lake. 65 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Harold Taylor: This will make a great park. Andrews: Yeah, we like having lakeshore but we needed park space there desperately. Thank you. Any other comments from the audience? Does the developer have anything to add to this discussion? Developer: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission. I really have very little to add except that as Todd had mentioned, this reconfiguration is at the request of staff. We...to have a pond as shown on the park: area which frankly was...ended up compensating us more for what you're getting already. So it's a smaller park area. About 8 acres but that was again at the recommendation of staff. I hope you... I'll answer any questions. Andrews: Todd, it's your opinion that this is a positive move here for us as a park? Hoffman: It's a middle of the road approach. Again, I'd like to clarify it was not the specific recommendation of staff to eliminate the 2 acres from the park. But simply to get the pond out of the park. Andrews: Okay, very good. Lash: Do you need action on this? . Andrews: Yes. Lash: Okay, I would move that we approve the plat as shown with 7.9 acres of park property. Anything more than that? Hoffman: Approximately 8 I guess... Lash: Is that enough? Okay. Andrews: Is there a second? Manders: I second. Lash moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to approve the plat for the Oaks at Minnewashta as shown with approximately 8 acres of park property. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. 66 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT TO REZONE 89.59 ACRES OF PROPERTY ZONED A2. AGRICULTURAL EST ATE TO PUD FOR A 166 UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT COMPRISED OF 34 BUILDINGS OF EITHER 2. 3. 4. 6 OR 8 UNITS EACH. THE UNITS ARE TWO STORY SLAB ON GRADE CONSTRUCTION WITH ATTACHED ONE OR TWO CAR GARAGES. THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF HIGHWAY 5 AND GALPIN BOULEVARD. AUTUMN RIDGE. GOOD VALUE HOMES. INC. (BETTY O'SHAUGHNESSY). Todd Hoffman presented the staff report. Lash: I would recommend that the City Council negotiate acquisition of Outlot C in it's entirety through a reduction in park dedication fees or purchases. Furthermore, that the public trail be constructed by the applicant and any necessary easements for trail purposes be dedicated to the city. In consideration for trail construction, a lump sum payment equal to the cost of said construction shall be made by the applicant. Huffman: Second. Lash moved, Huffman seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council negotiate acquisition of Outlot C in it's entirety through a reduction in park dedication fees or purchases. Furthermore, that the public trail be constructed by the applicant and any necessary easements for trail purposes be dedicated to the city. In consideration for trail construction, a lump sum payment equal to the cost of said construction shall be made by the applicant. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: REZONING OF 17.6 ACRES OF PROPERTY ZONED RR. RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO RSF. RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY AND PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 17.6 ACRES OF PROPERTY INTO 23 SINGLE F AMIL Y LOTS WITH WETLAND SETBACK VARIANCES AND SIDE YARD SETBACK VARIANCES ON THE FLAG LOTS. LOCATED AT 1420 AND 1430 LAKE LUCY ROAD. SHADOW RIDGE. COFFMAN DEVELOPMENT COMPANY. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: So moved. 67 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Andrews: Is there a second? Huffman: Second. Andrews: I just want to clarify that the recommendation would be in it's totality as written by staff and that is the recommendation that we're moving. And seconding. Lash moved, HutTman seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council accept fuD park and trail dedication fees of the Shadow Ridge subdivision in lieu of parkland dedication and/or trail construction. One-third of the park and trail cash contribution shall be made contemporaneously with the filing of the subdivision plat. The balance, calculated as follows, shall be paid at the time building permits are issued: rate in etTect for residential single family property when a building permit is issued minus the amount previously paid. Current residential single family park and trail fee rates are $900.00 and $300.00 per home, respectively. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Andrews: Item 12 is going to be tabled. Is there any objection to that? Okay, item 13. PROGRAM REPORTS: . A. FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION. Ruegemer: Everybody have their shirts and hats in front of them...Does anybody have any questions? ...volunteer opportunities. Andrews: I would call in the morning, not tonight. Ruegemer: Does anybody have any specific questions regarding the 4th or any of these scheduled events? Huffman: Whoever did the brochure, it was outstanding. Roeser: Yeah, I did too. I thought the brochure was great. Huffman: Really, very well done. Lash: New ideas, that's great. Andrews: There's a lot of people talking about it so it's going to be big. Bigger than ever. 68 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Lash: And I think primarily volunteers... Roeser: I won't touch the prize board. Ruegemer: Keep in mind too we're going to have a table too in the trade fair tent so we need some volunteers. Roeser: When is that, Friday night? Ruegemer: That is Saturday. Roeser: What time? Ruegemer: July 2nd. 3:00 to 7:00. We're going to have two different shifts, 3:00 to 5:00, 5:00 to 7:00. Roeser: I can work 5:00 to 7:00. Lash: What time does the prize board start? Andrews: Can we please, let's do the scheduling after we adjourn. Why don't we agree to do that, okay because I want to get through the agenda first. B. LAWN CHAIR L VRIeS. Andrews: What can we add to that? Lash: And keep it brief. Lemme: I just wanted to report we had two great bands. The fIrst band I believe was too early for people to attend. Unfortunately we didn't have anyone for the warm-up band but the second bands...we've already booked them for next year 4th of July. They were excellent. They had people up dancing. Kids everywhere. It was really fun and really a good concert and we didn't get rained until 9:05 when the band was pulling out of the driveway. I think it was a good concert. People enjoyed it. Lash: Booked them for Lake Ann? Lemme: Yes. For family day next year. 69 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . C. SUMMER PROGRAMS. Lemme: This is an update for you on the summer programs are underway. Well underway. They're going strong. We had a really good attendance. I didn't prepare...but overall I'd say almost every program has increased in numbers dramatically. Andrews: I'm surprised Lake Ann Camp looks only 6. Lemme: That was at the time I wrote this. Since that time I'm sure we've had additional registrations and we'll promote that through the playground program. I don't have... I've had a lot of calls on it already. Huffman: My daughter is down at Rice Marsh Lake. She loves it. She said the kids who are working there are fantastic. She comes home every Tuesday and Thursday and just thinks it's great. So I mean she really does. She just thinks it's...so it's going very well from her perspective and that's what counts. Lemme: We have a real good staff. Andrews: When is that cheerleading? When does that happen or did it happen? . Lemme: That started on the 8th... D. HEAL THY STRIDES, NRPA CONGRESS, MINNEAPOLIS, MN Ruegemer: Thank you Chairman Andrews. Just a basically FYI for you. I've been working on a national committee as part of the National Recreation Park Association Congress coming to Minneapolis this coming October. It's kind of a side line of that annual conference itself. It's just an opportunity for...Saturday morning and go through Loring Park and also over to the Walker sculpture...to get some exercise I believe...I've been working on this committee since February so we've been meeting regularly and planning everything. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: A. MINNESOTA RECREATION AND PARKS ASSOCIATION AWARD OF EXCELLENCE, LAKE ANN PARK PICNICIRECREATlON SHELTER. Hoffman: Item a. We got an excellence award...present that to the Park and Recreation Commission at your July meeting...nice big plaque. 70 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 B. GROUP PICNIC RESERVATIONS, INTRODUCTION OF "SCHOOL" RATE. Andrews: This is an FYI? Ruegemer: This is more of a. Hoffman: We need action. Andrews: Okay, we need to approve, okay. Hoffman: Do you want to do it or not? Lash: I look at it and it's not proportional to me and I'm a very concrete kind of person. I looked at the proportion between the residents and non-residents rental on the next page...3 times so I just kind of think that maybe it should be 3 times the amount for resident school districts and non-resident school districts so that our... Andrews: That makes sense. Lash: I mean you want our school district to be able to have first crack. And I think that helps them to have a greater...so I would move that we adopt a picnic rate for schools per staff recommendation except by having the other school districts be 3 times the amount of the resident school districts. Lash moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to charge a group picnic rate for schools per the staff report with the non-resident school districts at 3 times the resident school districts. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. C. REQUEST FOR CANOE RACK, GREENWOOD SHORES PARK. Hoffman: We received a call from a resident inquiring about a canoe rack in Greenwood Shores. I said it's not in our 1994 CIP. She asked that I put the question to the commission. Whether or not you'd like to see one there. If so... Roeser: We'll see one there when we can park cars. Andrews: That's what I was going to say. When I can park my cars. Lash: Well they have it at Lake Ann. 71 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Roeser: They've got their own little private park as it is down there. Hoffman: Okay, no problem there. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: A. BLUFF CREEK CORRIDOR DESIGN CHARRETTE, COMMISSIONER HUFFMAN. Huffman: Do you want to do this one later? I can give you the 30 second show or you can go home. Andrews: Let's do it. Hit it. Go. Huffman: Alright. The committee graciously allowed me to join the Bluff Creek charrette, which was a great honor and I thank you very much for that, Commissioner Andrews. If you will turn to the first page, here was the agenda. We did the agenda. Second page. Back of the ftrst page. Basically our drawings on how to use current designs versus designs taken through consideration of environment and everything else. The second page on the front side. When you are looking at the ideas of building parkways, how to bridge the community, . becoming involved in the community using the sense of layout space. If you flip to the back of the second page. The public building going through the corridor. Obviously as you read down you can see what things are involved. Traditional parks. Upland habitat. Recreated wetlands, etc, etc. The next page it goes on and talks about the prairie waterways, transforming storm water structures into new viewing areas. How you can take existing areas and transform them using new technology. The most part or the biggest part of our discussion, Todd you can step in at any time in the way and correct me but it was on the back of the third page. What you're looking at, from the top down is the entire Bluff Creek corridor. University of Minnesota design team has come up with a new concept, they've been working on a concept for a long time where you view natural settings as a room. As Chanhassen is setting it's entrance into the city into three different areas, the oaks, the maples and the other one. We have three different. And which one? Hoffman: The wetlands. Huffman: The wetlands, okay . You view rooms in this Bluff Creek corridor in exactly the same way. On the right hand side you will see, okay it says room. Headwaters, upland meadows. You take and align then, follow the top part. That is viewed as a room. The features in that area are the headwaters of the two creeks. There are two, the slogan we sort of came up with was from the Minnewashta to the Minnesota. The creek comes down out of 72 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 the Minnewashta, flows down all the way to the Minnesota. The headwaters and the upland meadows area are most prominent. This is also where the school will be. We talked about using in that room active use areas also in that room. Things like, with the new elementary school coming in, a scientific area. Maybe having an outdoor biology science station where they could study the wetland. Migratory habits of frogs, fish, fowl, whatever. But use that area. Room 2 became very heavily the wetland chains where you see active swamps and marshes and all the other areas in there. Big problem with that area right now is encroachment of development. There was a concern Todd, that you said I think it was the Heritage project that has already backed away. We'll talk about some of the concerns about doing this area but using that, narrowing there. The third area room coming down is the canyon corridor where you actually have many open spaces. You have use of the bluffs. You come out into an agricultural area. I think where they were saying, you could actually have just a big open space coming down. The golf course encompasses the back side of that I believe. And then it comes down into the Minnesota River area. The concept of the Bluff Creek is then put into rooms. If you can categorize it in those 3 rooms and conceptualize that. That is how the design team came up and said here are your biggest features. Here are your biggest advantages. Within each room many designs. Whatever strikes your fancy in that area. That is the basic and essence of the way they are looking at that full view. Concerns of this whole charrette area. One is just knowledge of the area. We saw tonight people are concerned about Carver Beach. They're concerned about things of that nature. How do we get them to buy into the Minnewashta to the Minnesota? The idea was somebody said, well the big trees in Eden Prairie. We were talking about that, it was back yard conversation if I'm not mistaken for an entire year. We're either going to lose it or use it. And therefore it became...for discussion. As I've told people before, I've lived here for 6 years. I had no clue this was in existence. How do we make people aware of this? Public awareness is a huge problem for this. How do you do it? Through pamphlets. Through newspapers. Through models. Through conversations. This is a year's conversation piece. Biggest problem with that right now is the acquisition of certain areas in here, especially I think they said in room 2 in the wetland change there are developments coming out of that immediately that can squeeze that down into 12-15 feet corridors already. Because of the trail systems. Because of potential development. Because of high density housing. There are some areas of concern already. We're behind the fact of acquiring some of these properties. Along with that also came out the idea that maybe you want to think of two things. One, boulevard type corridors as opposed to trails on this system. If I'm not mistaken, we talked about that. Putting it on the front of roads as opposed to in everybody's back yard because then you're squeezing certain development areas here. One trail down the middle. Land size and lot size I know has been a topic of discussion. That was something that we were talking about. The amount of space put on each individual lot in Chanhassen. You're going to have to explain that further down the road. Acquisition. Public awareness. The use of this. Do you use it all for active. Do you take different rooms and have overnight camping? You 73 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . mentioned that. Do you put accessible trails in the whole thing? Are there certain areas that maintain more wildness? It's a really beautiful area when they put the whole thing up on a sheet of paper. It's really phenomenal. They were saying it is one of the only, in one city, the University of Minnesota said that it is one of the only areas they have ever seen located entirely in one city and really a treasure. The problem with this is like everything else. You've got Bandimere. You've got neighborhood parks. You've got everything. The amount of money to acquire some of these areas is going to be a lot. And it's going to require a lot the public's going to require an incredible amount of public awareness and to me, out of the entire discussion, that was the one thing that seemed to be most dominant. People don't know it's there. They're going to lose it before they're ever aware that it existed and that in a nutshell was the essence of our 3 hour meeting and there were some really neat people there. Andrews: Thank you. Hoffman: Good job Dave. ...commission at a future time...alternative sources of revenue. Directly through the Watershed District and some other things to look at. You all know the LCMR grant issue failed but we're looking at... Andrews: Any other commission member presentations tonight? Lash: I had a request for some garbage cans on Lotus. Not Lotus, Carver Beach mini beach. . They said there were no garbage cans down there. And then I guess I want to revert back to the traiL.conversation. I don't know how we generally handle that. I've never had a split before on a recommendation to go to City Council. So we supply them, I don't want it to just go with the normal park packet. I think it needs to be pointed out. That it was a divided vote. Hoffman: It will be forwarded to the City Council and I'll discuss it with Roger Knutson, the City Attorney, whether or not at that point...I'd like to congratulate the commission. You got through a very difficult packet You did the right things. We either moved it forward to the City Council or you tackled it and made a motion. So as you know, if you continue things that you had to do in one instance. In fact that was a visitor presentation. I would recommend at any point that you feel that a visitor presentation is going to necessitate a future action, simply close the presentations and say we'll put this on a future agenda. You're going to hear the same things... Other than that, super job tonight. Manders: I only have one comment and that falls along the Carver Beach, and it was a comment that Jane made that I really liked. And that was the discussion about the beach front. I think you were eluding to the entry fee to get into Lake Ann to use the lake. 74 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Andrews: That was a good one too. I agree. Manders: That I think needs some serious consideration to drop that entry fee. Andrews: Every year I'm on this commission I agree more and more to that position that we're depriving our tax paying citizens of one of our best assets by asking them to pay a fee. And it's also like you say, there's a, what will a person do in a daycare operation if they have a choice between free to Carver Beach or pay to go to Lake Ann. They're going to go to Carver Beach every time. And the Carver Beach is not set up to handle it. Roeser: I have a feeling about that too though. That the daycare people are actually people from Carver Beach that are coming down there. I don't believe that they're driving children in from Excelsior or any other part of town. Andrews: I don't think so either but they also would have the choice of a guarded beach too and. Roeser: Yeah, that's true. Manders: If it was my kid, I'd sure prefer that they were being taken to a guarded beach. Huffman: There's also a question of your daycare, you're...and you're trying to do everything as...and $5.00 every time or the ticket to me is just, it's a perception that it does. Andrews: It is a factor. Any other presentations? Huffman: Is there anything we can do very quickly about just inundating that whole area maybe for the next couple weeks with the -Sheriff's Department or whatever department, public safety for those individuals. Just to have them drive by right now. Hoffman: They're very polarized. The people down there and the public safety and Carver County. You saw it in your report. They end up with many of these being unfounded. Roeser: They were saying that the public safety is, actually I think they were accusing them of lying. Being dishonest and that was irritating for me. I don't know. It bothered me that they were doing that. Andrews: We need some drive by's, not some response to calls. We need some public safety in this area to say we're willing to go in there at 10:00 at night for the next 2 weeks and ticket anybody or tag people that are parked illegally and just get them. 75 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 . Huffman: I mean it's 10:00, go home. Andrews: Yeah, time to go. Hoffman: Their presence down there, I know it's there. I'll ask them if they can coordinate that 10:00 thing but again, as you can see that's not the only problem. Andrews: But the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Lash: Well you know the direct violation of the park rules are people being there after 1O:()(). A lot of the other things are the kind of things that happen when you're by a beach. It's going to be noisy. There's going to be kids. There's going to be...and we can't control behavior of everyone at the beach...the whole lake here and people are, if it's a public beach, they're entitled to go there and yeah, there are some certain social guidelines but the direct violation of being there after park hours is something that we can tackle and I think we need to tackle that really hard and try to at least correct that problem. Manders: The comment that Dave made about we're not here to guarantee your property values. That was good. We're not in that business. Hoffman: The...has made a request for the record and the most recent complaint that they . responded to again was unfounded, as you saw in your packet. They called at 1 :30 in the afternoon. Roeser: At 1:30 in the afternoon for a noisy party. Hoffman: People were participating at the park. Manders: Where do they reside specifically? Are they the ones with that. Roeser: With that landscaping. Manders: That landscaping and that mailbox hanging out there. They're that property. Lash: So, and I came late and I apologize again but it's basically at the mini beach. This is where most of the problems are? Is that right? Hoffman: ...This is the mini beach and that file has documented these same issues for the past 20 years. 76 . . . . Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Lash: But was it not the residents down there that wanted the raft and wanted the buoys and those kind of things. They came and asked us to put those things in and now they're asking that they be taken out. Roeser: Different residents. Hoffman: Well you have certain residents...and you as a Park Commission are left with the authority to approve what you think is prudent. Three parking stalls reduced. from your original recommendation by one by the City Council. The Gundersons and all the neighbors were heavily involved in those public hearings which were heard before the Commission and City Council. And now it's to control the parking so it's posted no parking and people park there. The residents acknowledge there should be some parking there at least a portion of them do. Lash: Well the buoys, the buoys that's a public safety issue and a liability issue for us with the raft. As far as I'm concerned, those residents requested that. If they don't want it any more, I don't have a problem with taking it out. Hoffman: Well you're going to have other residents... Roeser: You're going to have residents that want it though. I think what you have there are some people that kind of want to control that area totally. Andrews: Absolutely. Don't forget that people that get their way, aren't the ones that come here and ask for things. They've gotten what they've wanted. They stay home and the people then who want change are the ones who come here so they say we want the raft out. We want the beach out. Roeser: Listening to them, it sounds like the busiest beach west of the Mississippi. I mean it sounds like downtown Minneapolis or Hennepin Avenue. I mean it was just wild down there. They're throwing garbage. They're screaming and this goes on what, 24 hours a day. I don't know. Andrews: Are there any changes or corrections to the Minutes? Lash: I move we approve. Roeser: Dh wait a minute. 77 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 Hoffman: Geese will be picked up next week at Minnewashta, Lake Lucy, and Near Mountain pond... District 112 Advisory Board. District 112 would like a member of our Park Commission to sit on their Advisory Board...I'll mail you information on that regard. This is one of those efforts to try... APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Lash moved, Manders seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated May 24, 1994 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Lash moved, Manders seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim 78 . . . , . . . ~~ . . . ADMINISTRA TIVE SECTION /l/r-. Be fi-LI( ~ " ~t'1 t ~ f, ;.' ~. ',,' ~ en',' i,A V-, . April 18, 1994 TO: Fellow Mayorsl Councilmembers - 14 Communities surrounding Lake Minnetonka FROM: Mayor/Councilmembers of the City of Deephaven RE: Goose Control This evening the City of Deephaven Council unanimously moved to approve another three year contract for goose control through the University of Minnesota - James A. Cooper, Fisheries and Wildlife. The Canadian Critter continues to threaten and disrupt the enjoyment of all parks and beaches surrounding Lake Minnetonka for the benefit of our Citizens. This program is certain to be more effective if each City were to share in responsibility by making this an annual effort to control . the geese population that have become a public nuisance within the 40,000 acres of precious wetlands we all share. Therefore, we urge you to adopt a similar program. Sincerely, ~ ~ Ll.uflku i/W Mayor Howard Bennis Councilmembers Mary Raymond, Dick Brown, Jerry Laughlin and Dale Moe -------~-~-- --- --- - --- --- - -- --- - ---- -------~-~---~- . City Offices: 20225 Cottagewood Road, Deephaven, Minnesota 55331 (612) 474-4755 Public Works/Building Inspections (612) 474-4759 , . ~ . . I. CITY OF CHAHHASSEH 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 July 14, 1994 Mr. Bill Moreno 6727 Hopi Road Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Mr. Moreno: On behalf of the City of Chanhassen, I would like to extend our thanks for your donation of the beautiful apple and pear trees which were rc=cently transplanted to Lake Susan Community Park. It appears that these trees were well taken care of and nurtured while in your yard. It is our hope that they will continue to grow p~viding beauty and shade at one of our most widely used city parks. If you would like to see the trees in their new location, they are located just southwest of the Lake Susan Park Picnic Shelter. Again, thank you for seeking an alternative to cutting the trees down prior to commencing your construction project Sincerely, .~~~ Todd Hoffman . Park and Recreation Director TH:k pc: ~ and Recreation Commission Mayor and City Council Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent Jill Kimsal, Tree Inspector I' C ITV OF CHAHHASSEH t . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 July 18, 1994 Simil~y '-t.-.ftus SeA^+- +-0: Vq/L.Ce Re..cY"u..,.J..;Ol\ Ead F AvJ.exson ~ Assoc. Mr. Todd Lehman Minnesota Playground, Inc. P. O. Box 27328 Golden Valley, MN 55427 Dear Mr. Lehman: The City of Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission is seeking proposals for the provision of play equipment to be installed at Pheasant Hill Park. Pheasant Hill Park is a new 12 acre neighborhood park located at 1720 Late Lucy Road. A park plan showing the proposed location of the play structure is attached. A summary description of the play equipment desired is also attached for your information. Equipment you specify may vary . from these descriptions. The commission's decision in selecting a vendor will ultimately be based on compliance with CPSC guidelines, ASTM standards, and the ADA, product integrity, value, reliability, and material among other things. If you have questions in this regard, please do not hesitate to call me for further explanation. All proposals must meet the following standard requirements: 1. All equipment must meet requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), the 1991 U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission guidelines (CPSC) and the 1993 American Society of Testing and Materials Standards (ASTM). Suppliers must provide a written statement of wmpliaDceiD dUsn:gard to enable their proposal to be considered. Proposals received without this letter of compliance will be rejected. 2. It is understood that quote proposals may not be withdrawn within 60 days of submission and the City of Cbanhassen reserves the right to reject any or all quotes and waive all formalities. Proposals will be accepted through 12:00 p.rn. Monday, August 1, 1994. The project shall be atlarded to the selected vendor on August 10, 1994. . '. -, . . . July 18, 1994 Page 2 3. Delivery of all equipment must be guaranteed by Monday, September 26, 1994 at 12:00 p.m. Thank you for your consideration in this matter. I look forward to receiving your Proposal. Sincerely, ~~,L---- Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director TH:v pc: Park and Recreation Commission Don Ashworth, City Manager II · f I- i ~ : " ~ . i r i ~ i ; r I [ 4 i I ! I I "t. . ""," - or r .... .... i ,.t' ",1 9"- .,e' "t. .... .'" .' <# \ \ I " /'~~:-... ", (' ,.., _'v , .,-' ---.... .- -'" ,. I i ~\ \ , , , I I !lOllllllloa It....., GrM, "c. )00 Iokno II'" . __... szs \ltnnu,."" ..... ss.Jt . "12"~"tMO PHEASANT tILL PARK IIClImIItALJI . -. . . . PHEASANT HD..L PARK PLAY EQUIPMENT SUMMARY DESCRIPTION One (I) play structure, Pbase I of two phases. Please show both phases in drawings. . Location: Pheasant Hill Park (see attached map), 1720 Lake Lucy Road, Chanhassen, MN 55317 . Acceptable materials: Aluminum or galvanized steel posts, 5" diameter, powder coated. Decks shall be coated metal. Alternative materials may be submitted at vendor's discretion. - . Area available: Approximately 70' x 90' Area could be expanded to the south and east; however, retaining walls would be required. . Border Material: A playground border capable of containing 12" of pea gravel shall be specified and included as a component of this proposal. Border shall encompass both Phase I and Phase n. . Targeted Users: Phase I ages 5 -12; Pbase n ages 2-5. . Required Play Experiences: Phase I - swings, and multiple slides and decks. Phase n - crawl tubes, multiple slides and decks, spring animals and additional swings. The final design decision is at the vendor's discretion and may include individual play components in addition to continuous play apparatus. . Proposal to include all drawings and detailed specifications of proposed equipment, i.e. deck heights, slide widths, colors, etc. Vendors are solely responsible for determining the level of detail, Le. quality of drawings and specifications which are being submitted. . Vendor may prepare one or more proposals using different product lines or materials if desired. . City to install border, resilient surfacing and equipment per specifications of supplier. . Total available funds to purchase Phase I play structure and Phase I and in Phase n border material is $20,000 or less. For design purposes, Phase n play equipment can be considered to have a purchase price of $15,000. .' CITY OF CHANHASSEN . . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 July 18, 1994 Chanhassen Lions Club c/o Gary Boyle 7214 Frontier Trail Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Members: On behalf of the City of Chanhassen, I would like to extend our deep appreciation to the Lions organization in recognition of your recent donation of $17,000 to the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Department. This money will be placed in an escrow account for future use in completing park and recreation projects. It is understood that of the $17,000, $11,000 will be used to assist in the "outfitting" of the new Chanhassen Recreation Center to be located adjacent to the new Chanhassen Elementary School, with the remaining $6,000 to be used on . a project selected by the Chanhassen Athletic Association. The Chanhassen City Council and Park and Recreation Commission are very grateful to have been considered as recipients of this money. Weare well aware that there are many other worthy causes which the Lions organization could have considered for this gift. Please be assured that the entire $17,000 will be invested in recreation equipment which will benefit all of Chanhassen, especially our youth. I would have preferred to have been present the evening the City Council accepted your contribution; however, I was out of town on Monday, July 11. Please accept my sincere apology in this regard. We look forward to the Cha"hassen Lions continued involvement in the community and are excited about your upcoming contributions to the SeptemberFest celebration. Again, thank you very much for your generosity. Sincerely, -M#^ Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director pc: Mayor and City Council Park and Recreation Commission Jack Jensen. CAA President . , . . . JOIN US FOR A SENIOR HOE-DOWN! SATURDAY, AUGUST 6 AT THE CHANHASSEN SENIOR CENTER Dinner will be served at 6:15 p.m. and includes: steak, augratin potatoes, cole slaw, fresh fruit salad, dessert, refreshments, and entertainment. C.J. Floyd will provide the square dancin' to keep your feet moving! They will play from 7:00-7:45 p.m. Fee: $10.50 per person Pre-Registration is required. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Registration Form Code No: ABBQ94 10 Name: Address: Phone: Fee: $10.S0/person 1IP..............................tII. F Tbe Cbanbassen Park & Recreation Department and District 112 Community Education prese~ . . . : KREATIVE KIDS WORKSHOP ;' . Kreative Kids Workshop is a brand new program that will offer an artistic experience to children entering. . grades 1-6 in the fall. Session I (4 weeks) emphasizes drama through games, exercises and other . . imaginative-oriented activities. Session n (4 weeks) will offer hands-on participation with at least three . . other types of artistic media such as masks and other fun and creative art forms. . . Try one or both sessions and get a sampling of art that you probably wouldn't receive within the school . . art curriculum. . . . . Session I, Dramatic Arts, Thursdays (June 16-July 7) . . . . YKKW94 10 10:15 a.m.-12:15 p.m. Grades 1-3 . . YKKW94 11 1:45 - 3:45 p.m. Gr@des 1-3 . YKKW94 12 10:15 a.m.- 12:15 p.m. Grade$ 4-6 · YKKW94 13 1 :45 - 3:45 p.m. Grades 4-6 · . Instructor: Stacy Ploeger . . . . Session n, Art Forms, Thursdays (July 21-August 11) . . . . YKKW94 14 10:15 a.m.-12:15 p.m. Grades 1-3 . . . YKKW94 15 1:45 - 3:45 p.m. Grades 1-3 . YKKW94 16 10:15 a.m.-12:15 p.m. Grades 4-6 . · YKKW9417 1:45 - 3:45 p.m. Grades 4-6 . . Instructors: Robin Borkhardt, Kitty Sitter . . . All classes will held in the banquet room at the Chanhassen Bowl, 581 West 78th Street . . Fee: $22.00/session Minimum/Maximum: 8/15 per session . . FOR MORE INFORMATION CALL 937-1900 EXT. 144 . . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . . REGISTRA nON FORM . .Head of Household Home Pbone . . Address AltemativelW<Xk Pbone . . City Zip Name of Pa'son at AlL Pbooe . .. Please fill in JI'Ogram code number if listed. . . . . . . . . . . . · farther agree 10 indannify IDd hold Iwmleaa from IDd IpiDat 18)'. IDd aD JiabiJity for injury which may be auffered by the Iforemelllicmed iDdividua1(a) .nama'd I. ......, w.. ..,. -y """"""" ..... ...........-..... "'""r, -.... - -- .... ... - _... """'" Db... .a. . CwlhuICD, MN 55317. " ~ Parent or Participant Signature Date ~ --...............................411 ~elr.y~ o~ CiOQ. 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'''\-,J ~I:I' In order to better serve participants using our picnic facilities, we ask that you take a few minutes to answer the following questions and give us some suggestions. Thank you! Group Name:(optional) Picnic Facility: UNtE ~NIAJ ~ulll~ CHANHASSEN PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENTb 690 COULTER DRIVE 'ice. CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 '//1; tIJt(:~ PHONE - 937-1900 Clt. "!. :, r (.., <: In 'I' t... ',. .:19.;- " ~ PICNIC EVALUATION . Excellent ~ A vel'82e Fair Poor (Please Circle) Overall impression of facility (]) 2 3 4 5 Did facility meet your expectations Q 2 3 4 5 Were there enough tables/grills. etc. Q 2 3 4 5 Procedure for reserving picnic CD 2 3 4 5 Picnic Reservation Fee 1 2 G) 4 5 Parking Fee (Lake Ann Only) 1 2 LV 4 5 Was facility clean 1 (1) 3 4 5 . connnen~~ ~+~Wk~~~ ~;~ PM f;;,f~~'JJ.t !:'~ ~~=. . 1~ .' . '. > n~fflfff:}~~-( at dic;Lyou like most about your picnic facility? What amenities would you like added? . What improvements could be made to better the facility? . Do you have any suggestions or ideas to better the picnic reservation process? ;. . Additional Comments: Thank you for taking the time to complete this evaluation. Your input and comments are very important to us. Have a great day! . -~.. . CHANHASSEN PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT 690 COULTER DRIVE CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 PHONE · 937-1900 RECf.IVE~ jUi. i J. 1994 CITY vr C~~.I~HAS~fr-, ~. . .' PICNIC EVALUATION , . In order to better serve participants using our picnic facilities, we ask that you take a few minutes to answer the following questions and give us some suggestions. Thank you! Group Name:(optional) Picnic Facility:...UV2 ~ cbv~-A.J1) <<PAt ')1 hJJ.DJD Excellent ~ A verae:e Fair (Please Circle) Overall impression of facility CD 2 3 4 Did facility meet your expectations CD 2 3 4 Were there enough tables/grills, etc. 1 cY 3 4 Procedure for reserving picnic 1 2 (1) 4 Picnic Reservation Fee 1 CD 3 4 Parking Fee (Lake Ann Only) 1 2 3 4 Poor s s s s s Was facility clean 1 3 4 CD. s cv ~i!ii~i~~~~~~Bf~~ . What did you like most about your picnic facility? f\ ,)II"~ 6tG;>~.t:J2 1D1T1;:l ~JJl<.( ~ .fbg_.1Cd.f25>.__tJ?~1lXO ~~ _ . What amenities would you like added? LtJA711 f\)JLL "1:@8JJ.v<; -A[Sp1LA)D hAJlI!::- What improvements could be made to better the facility? ~'I/~ --r12AJ Ai::, -Af2DJ.C.A)D ~ . . Do' you have any suggestions or ideas to better the picnic reservation process? ~I FFI WJvT /t) ('off A+lQbD tJ~ - AhIHtJJ/t-,t-l -H~_ l4)f\<;' <?j.~-A~-A ^"Jr . .>:Jl'X";//(c>I-I. ~L"tIf 11.) \Of- DI D Fi n ")AU \t' CO~~)F'('r. Additional Conunents: &~~~ O~~~~(' o$~ 'fJ&AA) ft ~JLJw R~f'('), ~ L t='tl, .' . . Thank you for taking the time to complete this evaluation. Your input and comments are very important to us. Have a great day! . . CHANHASSEN PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT 690 COULTER DRIVE CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 PHONE. 937.1900 PICNIC EVALUATION Q ,: t ;- a,.; ~ t. '..:. .... · lit... -_.~t:. i f'-;.:.: 'V '_J; , . ~nl" ':-)....1, . C;J7~' 0'" , '-~ .... ; -. ': r""l,;:";'.~'\.~. r In order to better serve participants using our picnic facilities. we ask that you take a few minutes to answer the following questions and give us some suggestions. Thank you! Group Name:(optional) OOf'1YY1 n () fen iC ~ Picnic Facility: UJa. SU'jO.n , Excellent Good A veral!~ Fair Poor (Please Circle) Overall impression of facility 1 ~1J 3 4 5 Did facility meet your expectations 1) 2 3 4 :> Were there enough tables/grills. etc. <0 2 3 4 5 Procedure for reserving picnic ;j) 2 3 4 5 Picnic Reservation Fee (J) 2 3 4 5 Parking Fee (Lake Ann Only) 1 2 3 4 5 Was facility clean 6:'; 2 3 4 5 . Cormnents: _I { X I , -hrrr p ({v~ 10 if C~O..Lt1 !YVi, ({ if [D.t -.f- U~ Ui -t hi (filIi cL What did you like most about your picnic facility? -n . (Ui. ,( i4.. . t' 11 UY1 (U :JTr(on, ':J tA./.f.A L What amenities would you like added? tAli ~ -tru.. btach IAJCi..5~ Jt;L~A..- 10,€--L1 li "S-{.f V.e.d out pu ly:)f)~ J What improvements could be made to better the facility? --1::J(J}j t.. - 'j'1.1.CL"T UoI11J n I , , . Do you have any suggestions or ideas to better the picnic reservation process? }J C - ~d ~ - .P a-~ to 1And1...L ~fw1c( . . Additional Comments: 11'lal1U4- ~ Thank you for taking the time to complete this evaluation. Your input and comments are very important to us. Have a great day! . . RECE'iit'r\ " CHANHASSEN PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT'f~~J 690 COULTER DRIVE JUt t.: r~ 1994- CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 CITY OF r' , . PHONE - 937-1900 . , ~.L.jA";HASSn.. ~ PICNIC EV ALVA TION . In order to better serve participants using our picnic facilities, we ask that you take a few minutes to answer the following questions and give us some suggestions. Thank you! Group Name:(optionalLCJ.lJIJ 5c~ P~t.fJ% Picnic Facility: L-..Ju- ~ - ~ Excellent ~ A veralle Fair Poor (Please Circle) Overall impression of facility Q 2 3 4 5 Did facility meet your expectations V 2 3 4 5 Were there enough tables/grills, etc. c0 2 3 4 5 Procedure for reserving picnic 6J 2 3 4 5 Picnic Reservation Fee 1 @ 3 4 5 Parking Fee (Lake Ann Only) 1 @ 3 4 5 Was fadli ty clean cD 2 3 4 5 . Comments: What did you like most about your picnic facility? ~f i.,u) f WI; It D-7\. w; fA- (' ~~ CM--L' --f-ry L2AA A-Li-<..- ~-L , What amenities would you like added? What improvements could be made to better the facility? ~.. . Do you have any suggestions or ideas to better the picnic reservation process? . Thank you for taking the time to complete this evaluation. Your input and comments are very important to us. Have a great day! . . CHANHASSEN PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT 690 COULTER DRIVE CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 PHONE. 937.1900 PICNIC EVALUATION . . I' fttr'p\.....;~= ... ~ "~ f fllr. t.J ,,'; ..; 1Qr"I~ '"' _I, (. .",:::1 ,; ~ ':ITr ~)t' L.,~fL'irlASSEr" . In order to better serve participants using our picnic facilities, we ask that you take a few minutes to answer the following questions and give us some suggestions. Thank you! Group Name: (optional) \nlf'6\+\Qy\ E.~lf'rfr'\") Picnic Facility: ~ ~(\ ?Q..,; Ill'~ Excellent Good A vera2e Fair l2m: (Please Circle)" Overall impression of facility 0 2 3 Did facility meet your expectations 0 2 3 Were there enough tables/grills, etc. 1 (D 3 Procedure for reserVing picnic CD 2 3 Picnic Reservation Fee 1 G 3 Parking Fee (Lake Ann Only) 1 2 3 Was facility clean 1 CD 3 Comments: 'S'lJou.\c\ ~ ~ 11tt~ -In ~o.\..I f"c ..Qld..i o.c; 9Q,-\ '-\t...t ("e.~f2nJc..\.t")l'"\ 7 ""\: ~ee'M e,p-;e,<c. ~ I ~! ~ -\ l \JClD ~i ~ 0.. ()~\ 8{) ~~~ 1 What did you like most about your picnic facility'! ',-k. 4 5 4 5 4 5 4 5 4 5 4 G) 4 5 . \ .''''P n ~QJ ..~,_. What amenities would you like added'! What improvements could be made to better the facility'! .. ., Do you have any suggestions or ideas to better the picnic reservation process? . Additional Comments: Thank you for taking the time to complete this evaluation. Your input and comments are very important to us. Have a great day! . - .. J ~-....... . Safety Weet ~. ; . , Playground Weekly July 18-22, 1994 From the Chanhassen Park & Rec. Summer Discovety Play~round Program Ask your Tiny-Mite about: *What kinds of things they saw and did with the Chanhassen Public Safety staff. *What they decorated their picture frame with. *What safety tips they learned from this week. Ask your Dyna-Mite about: .How they "pieced" together their picture frame. .What new information was gained about safety from the Chanhassen Public Safety Staff. What a SPLRSH we made at the Bunker Hills Wave Pooll TI1is SUPER EVENTwas one of our best so far! TI1is week, the Omni Theater/Jurassic Park Exhibit, and Science Museum will take us back in time to see the extraordinary dinosaurs of our past. The Omni Theater is showing interesting aspects of Antarctica. We'll be leaving City Hall at 12:30 p.m. and returning at 5:00 p.m.. The fee is $ll.00/person. Don't miss this educational but fun event! Next week is our last SUPER EVENT scheduled, taking us to fun- filled Beaver Mountain Water slide in Burnsville. It'll be a blast!! Be sure to sign up for this SUPER EVENT soon! We will leave City Hall at 9:45 a.m. and return at 2:45 p.m. The fee for this final SUPER EVENT is $14.00/person. Join us for this fantastic summer trip! . The WEDNESDAY ~YlNG Dn~G this week is ANIMAL ADVENfURES, a safe, exciting way to explore new and interesting animals. WINiG DRNGS begin at 1:00 p.m. at Lake Susan Park and usually last approximately 45 minutes. Next week, we will end the WING DRNGS for this summer with the Mini-Carnival at City Center Park. TI1is ever-popular event is open to all ages and will be packed with games and fun for all! The Mini-Carnival begins at 1:00 p.m. Don't miss our fInal WEDNESDAY VIRNiG Dn~Gm Lake Ann Day Camp begins August 24th!! This week-long camp includes games, swimming. nature. crafts. canoeing. and even an overnight camp out!! The camp runs August 8th-12th (camp out: August 11) from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Call 937-1900 ext. 144 for more information. It is an experience never to be forgotten!! The next Lawn Chair Lyrics is on July 21st, 7 p.m. at City Hall. Come. relax. and enjoy the sweet melodies of the J .C. Band, Dixieland Jazz/Show Tunes. The very last week of Summer Discovery Playground, August 1-5, we will be painting t-shirts. You may want to start looking now for a white t-shirt to send along with your child. . Here are a few recipes that we've tried so far this summer: Homemade Root beer: Clean Mud: 5 gal. water 8 rolls of shredded toilet paper 5 lb. sugar 1 1/2 bars of IVOIY soap (bath-size) shredded 5 lb. dry ice 1 c. Borax 1 bottle Root beer concentrate Add enough water to be moist & sticky! Mix until dry ice is melted- Drink! Hours of enjoyment! ...........Questions or Comments on any Park & Rec. activities? ...962-9000..----.