1993 10 26 Agenda
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AGENDA
CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 1993, 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
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CALL TO ORDER
1. Approval of August 10, 1993, Minutes. The September 28, 1993, Minutes may be
delivered under separate cover.
2. VISITOR PRESENTATION
Commission procedures allow for presentations from the audience at this time. If a
motion is required, the item will be forwarded to the next available agenda to allow
for publication and review of items prior to consideration.
3. Final Review of New Chanhassen Elementary School City Interior and Exterior
Program:
City of Chanhassen
Owner
Hammel Green and Abrahamson
1201 Harmon Place
Minneapolis, MN 55403
Architect
4. Third Quarter Park and Trail Revenue Report, ending September 30, 1993.
e 5. Program Reports:
a. Review 1993/94 Ice Skating Rink Program; Locations, etc.
b. Halloween Party Update
c. Summer and Fall Adult Softball League Evaluations
d. Teen Night Out Evaluation
6. Administrative Presentations:
a. Land Development Status Reports
1) Song Property, Galpin Boulevard
2) O'Shaughnessy Property, Galpin Boulevard
3) Opus Site/Gateway Hwy. 5 and 41
b. Hwy. 101 Trail.
c. Status Report; 1993 Capital Improvement Program
d. Youth Forum Discussion
7. Commission Member Presentations
e 8. Administrative Packet
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
3
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
#
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE:
October 20, 1993
SUBJ:
Final Review of New Chanhassen Elementary School City Interior and Exterior
Program
Representatives of Hammel, Green, and Abr~amson will be presenting the most recent
conceptual site plan for the Park and City Interior Program next Tuesday, October 26th. Since
the last task force meeting, the plan has been arriended twice. The fIrst amendment was in
response to the task force's comments and the second amendment in response to staff
concerns/suggestions at a subsequent meeting. The plan is coming together very nicely, aIld both
HGA and staff are looking forward to your final guidance in this regard prior to sending the plan
on to the planning commission and city council.
Attachements 8~ x 11 copies of plans
-i HGA Hammel Green & Abrahamson, Inc.
~. Architecture. EngiDeeriDg · Interior Design
1201 Hannon Place · Minneapolis. Minnesota
55403-1985. (612) 332-3944. (fax) 332-9013
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T R A N S M I T T A L
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We fOlWard the following:
- Date: 1C OG1"O--PLC!fr ~
Project: USU etA9tM..._
Commission Number: IW. fJI!:J'Z,
Via:
Fust Class Mail
Overnight Express
3-Hour Courier
I-Hour Courier
Direct Courier. X
United Postal Service
Fax: ( )
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Pages to follow:
Remarks:
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COpy fonn to:
Correspondence File
ContraCt Flle
Shop Drawing File
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COpy enclosure to:
Correspondence File
Contract File
Shop Drawing File
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
+
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
~
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE:
October 19, 1993
SUBJ:
Third Quarter Park and Trail Fee Revenue Report, Ending September 30, 1993
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Attached please find a copy of the September ..... budget report for Fund 410, Park and Trail
Acquisition and Development As you can see,pa:r~ and trail development fees are performing
well with. $91,758.00 and $32,521.00 beingeolle~, respectively. With 75% of the year
expired, these numbers represent 79.71 % ancl81.30~of the totals estimated for 1994 p~k and
trail fee revenues. Note that interest eantings have not been booked as of September 30.
Indications are that earnings will exceed the $30,000.00 budgeted, a remarkable feat considering
an average fund balance of approximatel)i$35,OOO.00. Thanks go to our Finance Department for
another job well done in investing our.jnoney.
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CITY OF
CHINHISSEN
51A.-
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Todd Hoffman, Parks and Recreation Director
FROM:
Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
1~
DATE:
October 20, 1993
SUBJ:
1993/94 Ice Skating Rink Program
As the weather is rapidly changing, the time is now to formulate the 1993194 Ice Skating Rink
Program. Chanhassen will operate and maintain open skating rinks at the following locations:
Carver Beach Playground
Minnewashta Heights Park
Rice Mar; ..< e Park
North Lotus Like Park
City Center Park
Meadow Green Park
'~:'<.
The only site that includes hockey rinks is(1ity Center Park, which maintains two.
Flooding of these rinks will begin approWnately the~. or second week in December, weather
permitting. If the weather cooperates,.the rinks will ojK;n for nine weeks from December 13
through February 13, or until the wann weather prohibi, operation.
The warming house at City C~ter Park will have an al1dant and will be open during the
following hours:
Weekdays:
*During Christmas vacation and "no;.sehoolAa.Ys" th~)%~g~~use
10:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.rn.
Currently, three warming house attendants fr<Qnast year have conunitted to working again this
year. The remaining three attendants will be hired in the near future.
At present time, I have taken a request for hockey practice at City Center Park on Tuesdays and
Thursdays. Annually, I receive several requests and practices are usually held Monday through
Thursday evenings. I would anticipate more requests anytime now.
Todd Hoffman, Parks and Recreation Director
October 20, 1993
Page 2
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The warming house at City Center Park is in a sad state of affairs. The roof leaks, the window
frames leak, and let's be honest, the place is an eyesore. Until the Central Park issue is resolved,
we need to look at short term remedies and what we can do to improve the cosmetics of the
warming house. A fresh coat of paint might be the answer. (A boy or girl scout project?) This
could be done relatively inexpensively. It's a waiting game, I realize, but action needs to be
taken to create a more pleasant area around the warming house.
Looking ahead to the 1994/95 season, additional open skating rinks may be added to Pheasant
Hills Park, Herman Field, Chanhassen Hills Park and Sunset Ridge Park. By adding these sites,
we will be able to offer skating opportunities for our Chanhassen residents closer to their homes.
Director's Comments 00-20-93):
I have received requests for open skating areas at Power Hill Park, Chanhassen Hills Park, and
Pheasant Hill Park. I would like to discuss the future of the city's skating program with the
commission. I do not believe that adding more sheets of ice without lights and warming houses
is the route we should go. Creating regional facilities with lights, a warming house, and both
hockey and open skating is much more efficient and provides a higher level of service. Installing e
open rinks is a very labor and water consumptive process. I await your direction.
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
5b
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
1~
FROM:
Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
DATE:
October 20, 1993
SUBJ:
Halloween Party Update
Chanhassen's Annual Halloween Party scheduled for Saturday, October 30, 1993, is coming
along just fine. Flyers and press releases have en used to attract participants. As of today,
October 20, 1993, 41 children have pre-regi\.d for the party. This number is right on
schedule. Over the next couple of days, regis~atio~s will be pouring in. An estimated 400-500
children and their parents are expected to att~ijd.
A combination of volunteers from the ChanJiassen Women of Today, Chanhassen City staff, etc.,
have signed up to assist in this event. Ad41tional vohiijteers are always needed, so if you know
of anyone, please let me know.
Dawn Lemme and myself will purchase all of the HallotFn candy on Monday or Tuesday at
the new Chanhassen Target store~{:A.ll of next week will used to sort through equipment and
supplies in order to organize bqqJ.llallways. The Hallowee arty is on Saturday this year, which
allows set-up to begin mucnearlier. This will be nice. at it will create a less stressful
atmosphere.
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I'm looking forward to the Halloween Party. J~ll have an eval.
Recreation Co . eeting. ..^ .. . . ,.
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C ITYO F
CHANHASSEN
5c..
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE:
October 19, 1993
/~
FROM:
Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
SUBJ:
1993 Summer Softball Evaluation
Overall, the 1993 adult summer softball season \9! successful with 67 teams participating. The
league dropped a total of six (6) teams from the.,il9Q2 season. Comments from surveys returned
will be discussed later in this evaluation. Reyieww.g each league separately worked well, and
e I will do this again next year.
Cor
'oj
The Corporate League (formerly Indus~ League) had;~}total of 16 teams, which was the same
number of teams as 1992. Because of .{a,Cility constraintSti~e league maintained 16 teams. Lake
Ann field #1 was and will be used by the baseball progr~, making it impossible to expand the
adult league. The in-house playoffs, which were playedq~g the week, worked great The
teams enjoyed continuing the.~~()n for about three weekslfter their regular season concluded.
I would recommend keepingithe same playoff format for ... orporate League.
The Tuesday ni ne team from
the 1992 season. In rec teams from some
of the new businesses in town ..ppei g next season. Other
suggestions have been made to open up th es to include other cities to further the
development of the league. In reviewing th tion, it is my recommendation not to follow
this request. Opening up boundaries woul ate confusion regarding eligibility across the
whole softball program, with our current facilities this would not make any sense. The Women's
League will continue Tuesday evenings at Lake Ann Park.
...Women's...Leatme
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1993 Summer Softball Evaluation
Page 2
35 and Over
,
The Over 35 League was split into two divisions, upper and lower, this season. This worked out
great for both leagues. The more serious teams played in the competitive upper league, and the
recreational teams participated in the lower league. One problem in the Over 35 League was an
uneven number of teams. A team dropped out at the last minute, which made the league 13
teams. Having byes on the schedules was not a good thing. Next year only an even number of
teams will be allowed to play in this league and all Chanhassen leagues. The Over 35 League
would like to forget state berths and extend the season longer into the summer. Because of the
low interest in attending a state tournament, I would recommend this idea.
Men's ODen
The Men's Open League had 19 teams between two divisions and two classifications, C and D.
Looking ahead to the 1994 season, due to the growing baseball program, a total of 16 teams
between both leagues might need to be the maximum. This year adult softball used Lake Ann
field #1 for one game, and baseball used the field after that To accommodate the baseball
needs, that field may need to be eliminated for Thursday evenings. All teams appeared to be
happy with the league.
Co.Rec
The Co-Rec League split into an upper and lower division. The two divisions (11 teams) played
on Friday evenings at Lake Ann Park. The Co-Rec League was much better off dividing into
two divisions; I believe the teams were much happier. Teams elected not to have an in-house
tournament and opted to purchase more state tournament berths. There is room to grow in this
league next year.
General Comments:
.
Continue leisure line-update hour to hour.
.
15 parking stickers not enough for some teams.
*
Continue round robin hitting in playoffs.
*
No byes.
*
Open Lake Ann Park in the early spring to have practices.
*
Continue nightly concessions.
*
Most teams would prefer a fust place t-shirt instead of a plaque.
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1993 Summer Softball Evaluation
Page 3
*
Team surveys suggested that a softball advisory council was not necessary.
*
Develop a policy for continued forfeits in playoff games.
*
One week break between regular season and the start of in-house playoffs.
PROGRAM EVALUATION FORM
Program Name /qq3
.
hilt It 5 Lt Mh1 ~ r sthb" /)
@F
Code No:
Quarter Program was offered:
w
SP
Number of Sessions Offered:
Total Number of Participants:
Length of Class (minutes)
Length of Class (weeks)
Meetings/Week:
Class Fee:
Should this program be offered again'!
Comments on program:
REVENUE
6 7 /~",~
No. of Participants
x $
3 VlS, txJ
Fee
= .$;; 4 '-155
x $
=
No. of Teams
Fee
=
Donations
x $
=
Refunds
Fee
Total ~ d 4) if 1/ S-
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- EXPENSES
A. Salaries Total
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B. Contractual Services:
1. Bus Rental If:t,r-t.5 6 tj3~. (X)
2. Miscellaneous Services ~ ger7hs I ga:; , {)O
3. ~:;/~;C::A 10719. tXJ
4. 7Q3. cPO
S. tc/~"~ /....;ne ~7.S0
~j~ Supt'td at? tJO -
Total los-~.OO
C. Supplies: ~qIJ.5 'S/o6, f!q
~W!F
1. CraftlProgram Supplies ~()S / t>!a'''f.J 86'd.31
2. Equipment u",f'thr fJ~""'" IAnAtJk 79'. CO
3. Tickets .x.or~t:a s ' 7~.'O -
Total ~ I ~(!). .:38
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AMOUNT BUDGETED ACTUAL
TOT AL REVENUE $ ;;11 L/ s.>: ~()
TOTAL EXPENSE ~ /6 70~, 38'
BALANCE .fi 77~6, 6;)
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN. MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
C\TY OF
CHANHASStN
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MEMORANDUM
TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE:
October 19, 1993
1((
FROM:
Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
SUBJECT: 1993 Fall Softball Evaluation
The 1993 fall league had a total of 15 Men's en warns that participated on TuesdaY and
Thursday evenings. The Co-Roo and women' gue bad little to no interest. However, our
department will continue to offer these league gaip next year.
The 15 Men's Open warns were divided' ights, 7 on Tuesdays, 8 on Thursdays.
Tuesday's league was more recreational ~'Thursd 's was more competitive. Both leagues
played double headers which was desirabl~forthe pa!'t.icipating teams.
This year the Minnesota Recreation ancl,cparks AssociatiJipffered a fall league state wurnament.
The winner of Chanhassen's In-boulit'tournament went · to play in the state tournament and
finished in the top 10.
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The fall league season was fun, but would have been nicer
played. I'll look into extending the season next year.
more games would have been
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PROGRAM EVALVAnON FORM
Program Name
{MIA Ii Fqjl S~J/ O,n ~e No:
r
Quaner Program was offered:
su F
w SP
Number of Sessions Offered:
. Total Number of Participants:
Length of Oass (minutes)
Length of Oass (weeks)
MeetingS/Week:
Class Fee:
Should this program be offered again?
Comments on program:
,
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REVENUE
I S- ~""-h x $ 'dCZJ, atJ = 5 ~.lV
No. of Participants Fee
x $ I:
NQ, Qt l_ ite
~ =
~ ~~\\\~\\ =
x $ Fee :3alJ. tJ{J
Total e
Refunds
/
AMOUNT BUDGETED
ACTUAL
TOT AL REVENUE
TOT AL EXPENSE
BALANCE
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
5cL
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
FROM:
Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
DATE:
October 19, 1993
1~
SUBJ:
October 15th Teen Night Out
-';>~
Only one word for it, WOW! The October 15th"~ Night Out was one of our biggest yet. An
estimated 375 to 400 sixth, seventh, and eithtt\>graqers were there dancing and having a great
time. Gay Mattson, Wendy Schissel, and mY$elf ~l be meeting on Friday, October 22nd to
e evaluate this teen night
I was very much surprised with the phen~Jl1enal turnO!t. Being the first teen night out of the
year, 300 kids maximum were expected. this is an indi~ation of parties to come, we are going
to have a great year.
I'll let you know about fmal
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M~M~M~M~M~ ~M~M~M~M
~M M~.
~ MIDDLE SCHOOL 3:
M TEEN NIGHT OUT M
.~ GRADES 6, 7, AND 8 ONLY ~
M M
~ Date: FRIDAY, OCTOBER 15, 1993 3:
M M
~ Time: 7:00 TO 9:00 P.M.
M Location: Chaska Middle SchoolM
:iE Admission: $3.00 ~
M CONCESSIONS AVAILABLE M .
:iE Activities include: S: ·
M VOLLEYBALL, BASKETBALL, DANCING, MUSIC, M
~ AND PRIZE DRAWINGS. ~
~ Program sponsored by ~
<:: CHANHASSEN PARK & REcREATION DEPARTMENT, ::>
M COMMUNITY EDUCATION 112 AND M
~ CHASKA PARKS, RECREATION AND ART DEPARTMENT. ~
M M
-<: For information regarding Teen Night Out, please contact ~
..c::: CHANHASSEN PARK & REcREATION AT 937-1900, :::::>-
M COMMUNITY EDUCATION DISTRICT 112 AT 368-3688 M
:iE ANDCHASKAPARKSAT448-3176. ~.
M M
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
~
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
-",.~
"4"
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE:
October 19, 1993
SUBJ:
Land Development Status Reports
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SONG PROPERTY. GALPIN BOULEV ARO: The Planning Commission reviewed this
application on Wednesday, October 6, 1993. ~eark and Recreation Commission's conditions
of approval were discussed that evening, being~oc\Unented in the attached minutes. Please note
that Paul Krauss, Planning Director, pointed op.t to tliPlanning Commission that, "Traditionally,
the Planning Commission does not place .ithemse1Y~s in between the Park Board and the
developer." The Planning Commission, ho}Vever, did~e comments in regard to park and trail
issues because of their potential affect qAplanning.+'}Vhat follows are my responses to the
comments made in regard to the Park an~Recreation C~ssion's conditions of approval, and
a subsequent recommendation to ameI1C:lthose condition
Parks:
1.
Existim~ Condition: The private/association park approved only if the additional
amenity of an. open field with a minimum size of 2 ........ feet x 250 feet with a maximum
4% slope is8ddedtc)thePflTJc"Y()'~;:~~ppt;,.~W.is to be in addition to, and not in
lieu of, ... gprQP()se4~mt.i~~;.i~f~~~~.~.Ji,~ . ate association park is
ever ab 0 . shall be transferred to the city' for pubTIc p
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Findimzs: The applicantaspmpo~F l~.R{~~~~~" eld, not a 250 ft x 250
ft. field as requested. This representS;i 4~%decrease in land area, a position which is
unacceptable. A compromised positit'~~preserving an open field of 180 ft. x 250 ft.
is suggested. This woUld decrease thel"jjt of the field by 17,500 sq. ft, a 27% reduction
in lieu of the 48% requested by the applicant. The length is necessary to allow informal
football games, soccer games, etc. to be played. I woUld like to clarify that the city is
not looking to introduce large scale team activities to this site as represented to the
Planning Commission by the applicant's planner. I also differ with the position that since
a city park may be located to the south that a large open field is not necessary in the
Trails:
Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 2
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association park. These sites are over 113 mile apart and both will be surrounded by
residential units.
2. Existin}! Condition: Full park fees shall be paid at the rate in force upon building permit
application.
FindiDJzs: The commission has continually made it known that full park fees would be
required in the absence of the dedication of public parkland. The applicant has touted
their willingness to do so as one of the reasons the commission should accept the
development of a private park.
1.
Existing Condition: A 20 ft. trail easement shall be granted along the entire easterly
property line. Furthermore, this easement shall be included in the grading plan for the
project with a suitable trail-bed being prepared. This trail-bed may meander within the
easement alignment at the discretion of the applicant, but the eventual alignment must be
conducive to future trail construction and is subject to approval as a part of the grading
plan review. Planting of trees shall be restricted to the areas west of the trail-bed.
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Findings: This condition was forwarded to assure that adequate space be available for
the future construction of a trail along Galpin Boulevard. The city's engineering
department has determined during review of the application that this trail can be
constructed within the road right-of-way of Galpin Boulevard. However, it was originally
the position of Carver County that the trail should be located outside of the right-of-way.
They have since agreed to allow the trail within the right-of-way; however, one area of
concern occurs at road intersection points where additional land will be reserved for trail
purposes.
2.
Existing Condition: The applicant shall dedicate lands to accommodate trail construction
along the southern boundary of the Johnson/Dolejsi/I'umer preliminary plat as depicted
on Attachment No.4. The applicant shall map and construct a trail parallelling this
wetland. This construction is to be completed per city specifications and at the time of
adjoining street construction. Final alignment of this trail shall be staked by the developer
and approved by the Park and Recreation Director and City Engineer. In recognition for
the dedication for this trail corridor and the construction of said trail, it is recommended
that the applicant receive full trail fee credit at the time of building permit application for
both the Song property and Johnson/Dolejsi/I'umer applications. [Note: This condition
will require amendments to the conditions of approval associated with the preliminary plat
for the Johnson/Dolejsi/I'umer properties. Fees associated with the amendment of the
PUD for the Johnson/Dolejsi/I'umer properties are to be waived.
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Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 3
This trail shall include a connection to the street plan as indicated between Lots 16 and
17, Block 2, or at a similar suitable location in the near vicinity. Additionally, the
applicant agreed. to rough grade the Stockdale park site if it was acquired.
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Findine:s: Facing the possibility that the Park and Recreation Commission would deny
this application, the applicant offered to provide this trail easement and to construct the
subject trail. Staff recognized that this offer went above and beyond normal requirements;
however, at the time, the applicant was attempting to sweeten the pot in order to gain the
Park and Recreation Commission's approval. The applicant did contact the city after
making the initial offer, rescinding their offer to construct the trail citing economic
hardship. Staff confmned the position of the Park and Recreation Commission during
that conversation and recognizes that high expectations are being maintained. In lieu of
dropping the construction, a discussion in regard to phasing the construction of the trail
was entertained resulting in the agreement that phasing would be the preferred in lieu of
building the trail all at once. Mr. Terry Forbord, Lundgren Brothers, confIrmed the
content of this phone conversation at the August 24, 1993, Park and Recreation
Commission meeting stating, "I talked to Parks Director Hoffman about the construction
of the proposed public trail and he didn't have a problem with this proposal. I think his
staff report already says that but we would like to build that public trail as, the
development will be phased. We'll be doing one phase and we'd like to build that public
trail along that phase and then when we do the next phase, build that segment of the
public trail and then as you go, because that's how you're going to be doing the grading.
You kind of build it as you go and I think that's what, I'm not sure but I think...talking
today." However, he then stated at the October 6, 1993, Planning Commission meeting
that, "The problem with it is, is that not only do they want me to give them land. They
want me to build it for them and they want me to grade the park down at Stockdale's and
all these other things. We can't afford to do that and do all the other things we're trying
to do here." In regard to the trail connection between Lots 16 and 17, Block 2, or at a
similar suitable location in the near vicinity, that condition remains valid. Full trail fee
credit for both the Johnson/Dolejsifl'umer and Song properties is being offered in
consideration for this condition. The applicant's planner, in a phone conversation on
October 19, 1993, now states that if a trail is to be built, they are expecting full
compensation for the construction. Furthermore, that if the applicant grades a city park
they want to be compensated.
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As you will recall, these conditions are contingent upon the city acquiring the Stockdale
property for public park purposes within 45 days after August 24. The 45 days have
passed and we are closing in on a potential purchase agreement Staff was uncomfortable
with this condition as it was being proposed; however, as a matter of record, the applicant
consented to it on the evening of August 24, 1993 (see attached minutes). I am therefore
disappointed with the applicant's planner's statement that, "The Park Commission had
wanted to make that acquisition a contingency on the approval of the Song parcel which
Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 4
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is, it's out of our control and it didn't make sense to us since we are doing so much
anyway that just making it contingent, wasn't something that we felt was appropriate and
was not an issue that we could control, is the problem."
Staff is frustrated by the applicant's treatment of park and trail issues, which at times
mimics a "bait and switch" tactic of advertising, promoting an offer to get you in the door
and then not following through with the offer.
RECOMMENDA nON
Parks
1. Change the dimension of the open play field from 250 ft. x 250 ft to 180 ft. x 250 ft.
2. No change.
Trails
1.
Change the condition to: It is intended that the Galpin trail be constructed in the street
right-of-way except within 200 feet of street intersections. In these areas, a trail easement
up to 20 ft. in width is required.
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2. No change.
O'SHAUGHNESSY PROPERTY. GALPIN BOULEVARD: As the commission will recall,
a portion of this property had been considered for an active park, but was dismissed due to soil
conditions. The applicant has recently asked for direction from staff as to what the commission's
reaction would be if they moved forward with the soil corrections and the construction of housing
units on this site. In essence, as stated by the applicant, plopping buildings right into the middle
of the city's passive park. Any comments you have in this regard will be forwarded to Centex
Homes. This item is being reviewed at the conceptual stage by the Planning Commission on
Wednesday, October 20, 1993. If the application moves forward, the Park and Recreation
Commission would review it again at the preliminary plat level.
OPUS SITE/GA TEW A Y. HIGHWAYS 5 AND 41: Two additional park concepts have been
prepared by Hoisington-Koegler Group, and they are attached for your review. At the
commission's request, calculations have been made to determine the amount of land which would
be consumed as park under the various scenarios being considered. As shown on the attached
exhibit, the area of high ground varies from a low of 18.8 acres as proposed by the developer,
to a high of 30 acres under Concept 2. The applicant's initial site plan identified a total of 178.3
acres. Therefore, approximately 17 acres (closely matching the applicant's original proposal) _
could be acquired through dedication. Any land above and beyond this would have to be .
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Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 5
purchased. Assumably, this. purchase would be orchestrated in the makings of a tax increment
fmancing plan. Demands on TIP proceeds are high, however, and the city management would
like to confmn if this active park site is an absolute necessity in this location. If it is not, could
it be moved north of Highway 5 or to some other location in the city? I await the commission's
direction in this regard.
pc: Mayor and City Council
Don Ashworth, City Manager
Paul Krauss, Planning Director
John Uban, DSU
Terry Forbord, Lundgren Brothers Construction
Dan Blake, Centex Homes
Michelle Foster, Opus
Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
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from a practical standpoint The idea is to, the problem here, the way we look at it wasn't
that the houses were the problem. The road was the problem and we were trying to buffer
the people who live there from the noise of the road and the view of the road and the cars
going by and so we were trying to create that type of buffer, while at the same time when
you're driving down the road, the houses aren't just leaping off the site at you. But I think
you might be able to see a rooftop and things like that and I just didn't want to say that we'll
be able to do that when I inherently didn't think it would achieve it That's the only reason
we modified that .
Krauss: Well I mean again, I don't think we're far apart...never been to avoid looking at
homes...make sure that the homes have a legitimate rear yard area and to view from the
highway it helps the roadway somewhat soften but the primary issue is protecting the
residential neighborhood. We've got so many situations elsewhere in town that that was done
inadequately and again, I don't think we're talking about different things here.
Conrad: Yeah, I think we're pretty close. Let's move on.
John Uban: Okay, yes. c and d, there's absolutely no problem with. e is the issue of how
much we can expand the actual tree conservation area which is an easement that's recorded _
on the property versus the adjustments we made during construction with flexibility to make WI'
sure that works out. In talking with Paul, I think we're close. I think it's just a matter .of
some adjustments to the plans that we have submitted and really clarifying with staff how
much flexibility we need to have and how much of a guarantee or an easement is appropriate
for this development I think we're close and we just merely have to sit down and work it
out before we appear before the City Council.
Krauss: That's probably a fair statement.
John Uban: The next item that we talked about parks. I had under 1O(a), I had shown you
that we had put in a 180 x 180 size playfield which is designed for the level of play that
we're looking for and not the 250, the 250 foot play area that is suitable for large scale team
activities that the Park Commission was looking for. Since they're putting a park to the
south, it really isn't necessary in our neighborhood association.
Krauss: If I can interject. I understand some of their concerns with some of the Park issues.3Some I agree with. Some I don't but the fact is, traditionally the Planning Commission does
not place themselves inbetween the Park Board and a developer. These are concerns that I
think the Park Board has seen it These were their issues. This was their recommendation. I
think the developer can make that pitch relative to these conditions to the City Council. It
just traditionally hasn't been something that you've tinkered with.
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
Farmakes: How do you feel about the issue of right of first refusal for the property? Does
that mean that it could be sold for a price determined at market at a later date?
Krauss: I think the condition that was written by the Park Board was so~what different in
approach. It said that if the homeowners association fails to operate the park or maintain the
park, whatever. Wants to walk away from the park, that it becomes a city owned facility.
That's different than getting fIrst dibs on buying it But again, I wasn't at the Park Board.
That was their recommendation. I'd ask you not to tinker with that
Farmakes: I'm perfectly agreeable with that but I do have a question in regards to that How
does the taxation work for that type of operation?
Krauss: It's taxed property. I suppose it's taxed at a lower rate.
Farmakes: So the homeowners association then pays that tax?
Krauss: You bet And I guess we're somewhat comfortable with it in this case Jeff. There
are a lot of commonly held facilities and chunks of land in this one that don't, and the park,
that the homeowners association has a valid purpose and would tend to exist for...
Mancino: Paul, I just have one other question with that too. I don't want to tinker with the
Park Board's recommendation but what was the rationale behind having them put in a 250
square foot field?
Krauss: I honestly don't know. I mean I can guess.
Mancino: A rink? An ice rink?
Krauss: Well there was an presumption here that okay, the Park Board agreed that they
would build a neighborhood park on the next property to the south pending their ability to
obtain title to buy the property. But I think they also wanted to make sure, this is
signifIcantly sized development That it was providing a legitimate variety of internal
recreational amenities. That's my guess.
Terry Forbord: Paul, this just makes for expediency. Is it the position then that the Planning
Commission will not be dealing with any of the park issues as it relates to the items that we
have concerns about?
Krauss: That's traditionally been the case unless there are some land use aspects or site
design aspects of the park issue. The Planning Commission and Park Board are equally
39
Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, ~993
created by the City Council with their respective spheres of influence and we haven't tried to
modify them.
Conrad: Terry, I don't mind hearing the issues. I don't know that we're going to react to
them here. If I think they affect the planning. I don't know that we're going to react to 250
versus 180 unless it affects the overall plan of the site. So it's good for us to hear them but
again I don't know that we're going to react to them in one way. or another at this time unless
it does, there's some contingencies to something that we really have some influence on.
Terry Forbord: Okay. Well then let me just take over for a minute here because I think it's
important for me to state that of all the issues, there's a number of key issues that are here
tonight. We're going through some minor adjustments here and fine tuning with you but
there are a couple key issues that will decide whether this property is acquired by us and
whether it is developed and the park and trail issues are certainly probably at the top of the
list. The association park that we have presented in the IobnsonIDolejsiJTumer neighborhood
connected to the immediate west of this subject property and the same association park on the
Song property, are new elements of design that we are now incorporating into all of our
neighborhood communities of any significance. And by significance I mean something that is
of enough size that it warrants this type of amenity. I'd like to tell you that we are the ones
that invented this, but we are not. We've traveled the country and we have found that in
neighborhoods with these types of amenities, the people find them to be incredibly desirous
for, not only for their use but for what they do to protect and enhance the property values and
the investments that people are making in probably the largest investment they make. So
over the last 4 years, on every significant neighborhood community that we've developed, we
have included as association park like this. And they have been incredible. Well, excuse me.
Well accepted by the buyers. Now this is kind of a new thing for the midwest. You can go
all over the United States and find these everywhere but in the midwest it's somewhat
different. And we've had to really, really spend a lot of time before planning boards and city
councils and park commissions trying to hopefully educate them to the benefits, not only to
the people who own the association but to the general benefits of the city because we're
providing the land. We're building the improvements. We're maintaining it and that takes a
burden off some of the facilities in the rest of the community. So for us we find that it is
very, very important. Now t for the parks commission, their charge is to also make sure that
the general public is being taken care of with facilities to provide recreational facilities for the
general public which is their charge and it's a good charge and those things do need to be
addressed. So obviously they look at this very closely and they scrutinize it. And in their
attempts to review this, and pass it onto you, they have exacted from us items economically
to the point that where it's going to Jdll our ability to proceed with this project if in fact it
ultimately is approved that way. We're spending a lot of money, if you can imagine, just
putting in the facilities that we are. Now they have asked us to come back to them with
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
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some new ideas and we came back to them with the proposed trail corridor that John briefly
described to you earlier. And that trail corridor, there was something I was trying to figure
out what additional incentive can I make to the city so they will accept the association park
concept. What additionally could I provide that would be public oriented and it just hit me
that this wetland complex here and I brought it back to staff. We would provide an
easement, the land that would enable the beginnings of a public trail system around this
natural area, would that be something of interest to the parks commission. Well of course it
was and it was a good idea and they embraced it The problem with it is, is that not only do
they want me to give them land. They want me to build it for them and they want me to
grade the park down at Stockdale's and all these other things. We can't afford to do that and
do all the other things we're trying to do here. So this issue has become a very large issue
and the only way that I can make it work is if park fees and trail fees are waiv~ to the
equivalent amount of the cost of the construction of these facilities that are of public benefit.
And so I'm just sharing this with you tonight because it more than likely is a deal breaker for
our ability to make this, purely from an economic standpoint. I would like to be able to say
to the city, I'd be happy to do all these things but I'm not Santa Claus and I can only do
what makes sense from an economic standpoint. And at the same time still be able to
provide a very high quality community. And so you may not want to be dealing with these
items tonight because we've made some changes in the recommendations in how those park
and trail dedication fees are to be allocated so I'll be happy, we can go through these. Each
one of them if you'd like us to but if you're of the position of historically of the parks .
commission not to deal with those things, then we can move on to other items. It would be
up to the Planning Commission.
Conrad: Well, do we want to hear them briefly or do we want to just skip them?
Mancino: I'd like to hear them briefly.
Conrad: Okay, let's touch them but.
Terry Forbord: A couple that are key, such as Galpin Blvd so why don't you go ahead.
Conrad: Yeah, let's keep on going.
John Uban: I think on item number (b) here, Terry talked about that already quite a bit.
That we need to have the fees equal the construction that's being requested in addition to
what we are dedicating and building as an association facility. The trails, under trails. The
trail, we're suggesting it be incorporated is a 100 foot boulevard from Galpin and here's a
section that generally shows that and what this indicates is that within 100 feet we can get the
52 foot wide road, 10 foot boulevard on either side. There can be a trail on this side also.
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
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Put a 10 foot trail in and we have additional1and here yet on the edge of the right-of-way.
This is a very comfortable cross section that handles lots of traffic. Trails are good to have, I
believe, in the corridor or the right-of-way. It's safer. There will be light poles here.
They'll be illuminated. They'll be more watched because safety is a C9ncern. If they kind of
wander off and away from the road, there are some safety issues that are a. concern.
Additionally, when we build our berm to keep our 30 to 40 foot back yard here, we'd like to
build it and then just taper it right into the edge of the right-of-way and usually we do that in
other communities and I know that the city is looking at similar benning effects on roads
along Highway 5. The frontage road and so forth. But this helps us to maximize our
berming if we can taper it into the edge right there on just a couple feet. But this is a very
good trail system many cities are using. This same design between 80 and 100 feet of right-
of-way, depending on the road size.
Terry Forbord: Now this exhibit represents what's proposed by Lundgren Bros and we're
showing you to demonstrate that clearly the proposed right-of-way would be able to, is
capable of including the road improvements and the proposed trail. John maybe you have an
exhibit that may show what is being proposed by staff.
10hn Uban: This is park staff.
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Terry Forbord: Parks commission, that's correct.
10hn Uban: This shows the 100 foot Galpin Boulevard right-of-way. And here we'll have
over 24 feet between the road and the edge of the right-of-way and then they're asking for a
20 foot trail easement added to that which combined would certainly be 140 feet of right-of-
way or easement combination which then we have the trail set farther back. Was closed to
traffic and then when we try to put our berm in and keep our back .yard, we have much less
room in which to do that because the trail doesn't want plantings involved to separate it from
the road and so forth and keep it graded to match.
Ledvina: Would that roadway be constructed with a curb and gutter?
10hn Uban: Yes.
Ledvina: So there wouldn't be any need for ditches, okay.
John Uban: This seemed to be sort of wasting land here that it's more maintenance in the
long IUD. It's less consolidated. I believe it becomes less safe and when you look at the rest
of Galpin Blvd, especially to the north, and you realize you want to grade out this far, there
are some significant wetlands to the north that are impacted that make the two that are on this
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
property fairly minute by comparison. So I believe the consolidation of road and trail, is a
good practice. Other cities are doing it To minimize wetland filling and other activity like
that
Terry Forbord: Now we recognize that in the past the city has used these principles but what
we're suggesting is that just because it's been done before in the past, doesn't mean maybe it
was the best idea. Because this particular type of cross section on this proposal of 140 feet
combination of right-of-way and easement is a huge swath of land that goes along any route
and it will involve the filling of more wetlands. Eventually the cutting down of more trees in
those areas where it's going through that are wooded, and we feel that you can readily
accommodate all the same functions within the proposed right-of-way without any additional
easements.
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Hempel: Mr. Chairman, let me just interject something here. The typical section proposed
there is fairly accmate. There is sufficient room to build a trail section within the 100 foot-
right-of-way. The problem comes when you come to an intersection where there's additional
turn lanes. Turn lane medians that expands that paved section out even wider. That does
restrict where the trail goes. In some cases the trail may be right up to the back of the curb.
We understand the intersections like that, maybe it's not that bad...and so forth. Similar
subdivisions that we've recently done along Galpin Blvd, we have incorporated the trail
section into the 100 foot right-of-way. Carver County Public Works Department had sent us
a memo regarding this; Their recommendation though is if we want a trail section, for it to
be outside the 100 foot right-of-way. We are currently working with Carver County Public
Works Department to change their minds on that since most likely it will be a joint
cooperative project to upgrade this county road in the future. So our concerns I guess would
be the trail...intersection would seem possible, an additional turn lanes and medians at the
intersection.
Mancino: What jurisdiction does the Carver County public works have on it'!
Hempel: It's currently under their jurisdiction...out in their right-of-way. Eventually it may
be turned back over to the city as a city street
Terry Forbord: Dave, would it make sense. Just make sure I understand your concern at the
intersection. If there's a turn lane right here is what you're saying. Is that that trail should
be able to meander in. I don't think that would be a problem for us to accommodate that
around turn lanes and things. I think that makes sense. The only thing we're saying is to
make that, to add that huge swath through the entire length, one it's overkill. Two, it is
going to impact wetlands and it's certainly going to impact the quiet enjoyment of these
people. That berm now will be right off their deck. That berm will come right up to the
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6t 1993
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deck of these homes under the proposal and nobody will have any back yard space along
here. I think there t s a way to get aroun.d that
Conrad: Interesting issue. I think City Council will deal with that one. Wetll all have our
own opinions but it is interesting because that is amajort well rm going to abbreviate my
comment The 1rail there is very impOrtant and I can see why Park and Rec wanted it and I
can also see why you dontt and itts better. I can see both sides of the issue and I think .we
don't need to get involved. Wetlllet
Terry Forbord: lust to clear that, we do want the trail.
Conrad: Right. Right
Iohn Uban: Then we continue I guess basically on with that trail issue. That once again
we're asking that the fee and park fees for trails make up the difference for any, the
construction that the Park COImnission may request On the 1rail that goes along the south
edge of the Iohnson/Dolejsi property, this major walk along the wetland that we've just talked
about. The city is asking for a connection up into that subdivisiont which we think is a good
idea but we're having a hard time finding an appropriate place and we wanted to make sure _
that that could happen without wasting a lot that wetve already gotten approved so we're .,
suggesting in our narrative and to work with the city and we think that there is an easement,
utility easement that can be used that would also be used for the city to gain access to the
sedimentation ponds that are also being built in that area. So I think if we can work
creatively with the city to combine utility easements and access for sedimentation pond and a
possible trail connection that might not be suitable for bicycles but, you know it would be .
probably steep but can be walked. That that would work out very well and we'll continue in
that direction. The other, on Stockdale to the south. The Park Commission had wanted to
make that acquisition a contingency on the approval of the Song parcel which is, it's out of
our control and it didn't make sense to us because we're doing so much anyway that just
making it contingent didn't, wasn't something that we felt was appropriate and was not an
issue that we could controlt is the problem. And we will work with the city. Wetll work
with Stockdales to make sure that something reasonable can take place but we are dedicating
an additional1rail on the nature walk. We are building our own parks plus, if no construction
is involved, still paying all the park and trail fees for both developments and only asking for
credit should they ask... That sort of summarizes I think the issues with park and trail. If there
are any other comments. rll move onto number 11. Really it's just a clarification. We have
really no issue with number 11. Number 12. We want the street section that we have
proposed in the subdivision and the right-of-way dimensions that we've proposed, to continue
and these are on two very specific areas. Number one, we have all the roads, the thru streets
are all 60 feet in widtht the right-of-way and standard 31 feet or event I think larger on A
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CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREA TION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 24, 1993
Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Fred Berg, Jim Manders, Ron Roeser, Jim Andrews, Larry Schroers,
Jane Meger, and Jan Lash
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; Jeny Ruegemer, Recreation
Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Program Specialist
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Lash: I just have a couple things that I found. On page 20. My comments at the bottom. I
think I said the first lines and after that point in time, I think it was the applicant speaking
because it sounds like something the applicant would talk about that night. Not something I
was saying. And I think it starts right about with the well. And then another one on page
48. My comments in the first paragraph down. I probably said I've always but what I meant
was, I've never. I've never been a proponent of that. And then I'm a cheapskate. Not a
cheapscape. I don't know what the difference is but I know I'm a cheapskate. I don't know
what the other one is. That's it for me.
Schroers: Anything else? If not, may I have a motion to approve?
Andl~ws moved, Meger seconded to approve die Minutes of die Park and Recreation
Commission meeting dated July 27, 1993 as amended by .Ian Lash. All voted in favor and
die motion camed.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
SONG PROPERTY. LUNDGREN BR011lERS CONSTRUCTION.
Public Present:
Name
Address
Terry Forbord, Lundgren Bros
Jay Dolejsi
Bret Davidson
David Stockdale
935 East Wayzata Blvd, Wayzata
6961 Chaparral Lane
7291 Galpin Blvd.
7210 Galpin Blvd.
1
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j;~1T~~;'~';'~':\.';~t~~'.~\.j~:-~1:(~::.;?Z~:'.'-"'~'.t{,.~~~~~;;~:,~,_-:-.,
;, .' >-,:~ - <;~'~-;:_--';":itr;:, :I8:";;:
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Hoffman: 1be Commission shouldbe~ theJPPfOvaI ~ttbe Minutes only covers the July
27th. The August lOth...'~eSong property proposal,._ tbeComm,issioners are aware, was
reviewed on July 27th. the discussion, that evenmginduding the tabling of this issue.
Expectations from the Commission in doing so. were twofold. ,That the Ippticant desired
more time to review internally and propess with staff ideas to enhance the park and
, recreation components of this application..$ecoDdly ,that the. Commission desired additional
information in regard to land holdinp lIOuth oi'..eSon.'s...Dolejsi- Turner property. .1 had the
opportunity to meet with Mr. Terry Forbord to discuss the Dew idea which he refennced at
the committee meeting. The Ipplicant"j)reliminary offer was' to identify a trail eaement
along the southern border of the JoImsoD-Dolejsi-Tumer'propertywhich abuts the Song
property and to oonstruct thattrail.~You have_,diapminyour packet.... this reprd. the
Jobnson-Dolejsi-Tumer proposal ..d the SonaproposaJ. are adjacent to one ..other.' they're
both...and are owned. or would beoMed ">'LuaclJreo Bros Pmstruction.' ,The area of the
trail would start about in this location.HighW&y41.d Yrind it'.way down to the southern
. half of the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer propettY.'SoYouw .JOtlhe plat which you approved, or
passed your recommendations onto the Council sometime last year and the Song property in
this location. This is a large woodedwetlll'ld area which you have I believe an aerial photo
of...l'm not a wetlands expert but ifscertainlyprimarily 1'Ihat they refer to as ClDuyreed ,
grass and we'l have some pictures of that, those slidesmMr. Forbordand J toured this area.
on foot the morning of August 9th. A Monday momiDS.Very wet moming.We...very
desirable for a recreational trai,land would offer_ experieoce which is not attainable with
the trails along street alignment such as the on street alipment. .which would run plJ'lllel with
the thru street which will access m 41~d Galpin... ,thisproposecl corridor parallels alarje
wetland. We talked about the homes that would be constructed in the area. The trail in most
cases would be located at the edge of the wetland. sandwiched between the wetland and the
home's backyards. The alignment of most area followed the toe of the wooded slope which
acts as a natural buffer. One ar~ in particular does DOt allow that and you'l see a slide of it
approximately right in this location which is an open alfalfa field which then dead ends...off
into the wetland. Several sets of photographs were taken. We11look at those here
momentarily. I also prepared the blue line copy of the aerial photo. I apologize...but you CID
certainly get the idea without having any additional feet on there. Upon concluding our site
visit that day it was agreed that the applicant would map this potential trail alignment, which
is down here...attached in the packet. Providing copies of that map for the commission to
review. A follow-up conversation on August 17th with Mr. Forbord and during that
conversation Terry informed me that they had determined that it was Dot feasible for them to
construct a trail at their expense. At least probably without receiving lOIDe 10ft of
compensation from the city fortbat...The second issue which I would like to touch on is the
issue of the land holdings in the area...aet an icleaof what this wetland loob like. You drive
by it. I drive by it every day, a couple times aclay.! certainly bew it was there but J didn't
know to what extent this area was. the extent of the area which it covers 10 I think it will
give you a realsood idea of what the area actually loob like.
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Schroers: A couple quick questions Todd. What is the lenph of the trail and is the trail of
any significance regarding the overall master trail pia of the city?
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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Hoffman: As proposed the length of the trail is about 2/3 of a mile in the Lundgren
development. It would then continue and probably conclude at Galpin ~d be much closer to
a mile in length from TH 41 to Galpin. In regard to the overall comprehensive trail plan, it's
not an identified segment but it certainly is a very desirable segment. The comprehensive
trail plan typically identifies trails which are traveled, or not solely for recreation but you
know line up with major corridors and major neighborhood corridors and that type of thing.
So I think it is a desirable link, even though it's not identified on the comp plan. If you can
follow through in your head as I walk through these. I don't have the luxury of pushing back
and forth between the overhead and the slides. This is a photo just east of Highway 41.
About at the location where the trail would begin on TH 41 right up in this comer. Right up
here and as you travel across the slide to the left, that tree line there would be the separation
point to the wetland so that's one reason you really don't see it. This is the view when you
cross over that tree line. The view which greets you there. Part of the wetland. As you can
see, it's not a cattail type marsh. It's not wooded. It was wet there obviously this year
because of the weather we've been experiencing but I would think in drought years it was
probably completely dry, except for maybe in a small creek which winds through the center
of it. The wooded property you see there in the background would be the southern half of
the Dolejsi property, which is severed from the northern half. So it makes it real impossible
to develop those as a consecutive piece of property. That's where I pan to the left, as I'm
standing there and it shows the wooded edge of the property to the north which would be the
start of the houses that would come down to the edge of the wetland there. The' trail would
meander inbetween the houses and the wetland.
Lash: So are you proposing the trail construction to be along the wood line? The tree line.
Hoffman: Right along the wood line, correct. It could not be constructed out in the wetland
itself. It certainly has to be up on suitable ground.
Schroers: Is that tree line going to be altered by the construction?
Hoffman: Assuredly yes. To what extent I would have to have the applicant to address that
question. These begin to get out of order. This would take you all the way to the opposite
end of the trail to the terminus. As it comes out at the very left hand comer of the slide
would be Swings golf course. And the trees that you see to the right would be the edge of a
cul-de-sac, if you can look on your packet, that knoll which is very heavily wooded... That
knoll however does have a, it's kind of a funny little area. It has an opening actually which
fits very nicely for a street which is the fortunate thing from tree loss. This would be if you
round the comer and look back towards Galpin Blvd. So as you walk around the comer from
the other side and then face, this is facing east. Due east right down towards City Hall. This
would be probably very close to the alignment of the trail as it came around the toe of the
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with, along with future developments
the trail UDderpass which soes
under Highway S. This slides toWll'ds the Song property .'rom Ibout
that same comer. If you can picture. you're probably ItInding on the trail here heading to my
right towards Galpin. Heading to my left towards m .41 and then you're looking BOrth and
towards the Song property., ,This Ipptoximately.,de1ineatesthe separation between die Sons
property on die right ,and the 19Jmson-Dolejsi-YUl'DefOlldie left.<Anoth.,- photo of the
alignment as it comes along die toe. of the dope apin,. that po'" viciDi~. ''Pis is _ area
which I mentioned earlier .ere the field. the aaricultuJII field actually oomes riJht clown 10
the edge of the wetland. lbesewould be...ltlDdina either at, the rear housepad or lOIDewhere
in the rear yard and then looking out over thewedand indUs ....SO die trail would nm
approximately right in line with that wetland edge.~11lat's coming up much hiper on the hill.
The last slide was down way to your right. tbisis ItIDdiDg up on 1I1ehiB somewhere
potentially where the street would be or maybe. front yard looking back over the vista of
that wetland area. And again the trail, if there WIS a proposed trail, would be clown. the
foreground...There's another shot of that samevicini~..Aaain. clown lower. the wooded
knoll that you see there, that's the knoll that the other series of Ilides' centered aIOUDd on 1I1e
opposite side of it. This trail would then come along vegetation edge. Follow die toe of diat
wooded slope around and head on over towards Swings IOlf course or Galpin Blvd or
potentially to the north at that time, depending on what aliJllment WIS eventually chosen and
that wooded knoll there would contain houses in a cuJ-de-sac...One area of ~cuJarCODcem
to the commission was the issue\ of this private park concept was Ipproved, what potential
exists for the city to acquire public parkland in the area immediately sOuth of the Song.
Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer property. So I put together. map which I think approximately
indicates the existing land holdings in that area. Again, 3 weeks was not sufficient time to
bring you a complete evaluation of what's available. What potentially would DOt be available
and all the other questions you would have. reprd to the Iud purchase. But I did have the
opponunity to discuss the topic: with some of the landowners in the area. ...realtor ud Mr.
Forbord who represents Lundgren Bros Construction in their Iud icquisition inquiries .
throughout Chanhassen. I do understand as u agent of the c:i~ I can onJytake these
inquiries to such a degree. Make the recommendations 10 the Park Commission and then
ultimately approval by City Council. However. I believe it is fair 10 state that there ... DO
properties in this area which have been actively marketed. 1bat statement made. I may alter
that statement to some degree tonight as we tIlk about the Stockdale property . more deWl
later on. Again, I mentioned that there appears to be ODe owner who is considering
subdivision of their property and that being Mr. David Stockdale. J believe it is also accurate
to state that the remainder of the landowners have either been contacted by perspective buyers
or considered selling their property at some time an4..lOme property owners that are just
happy with what they have JOinS on IDd probably would DOt consider telling at any time ill
the future. So agaiD the Stockdale property is Ibout 19 acres. ' You have an additional
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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handout with you this evening which I will reference and that looks something like this. So
this is the 19 acres Stockdale piece of property. The Song's...to the north. Their house lies
somewhere up in this comer of this potential road which would come down through here.
The Stockdale's currently reside in this location. It would be at least a consideration of the
Stockdale's to sell the city this section of land in this area for a potential future neighborhood
park. That's approximately 5 acres in size, or potentially a little less. The Park Commission
would have to decide what they feel would be an appropriate total acreage for that park site,
if you would care to pursue it. Mr. Stockdale is in conversation with Lundgren Bros on the
potential acquisition of that remaining property with development of that property coming
down through this road extension and probably meet in a cul-de-sac somewhere in that
location. So this is certainly something the commission can consider. It's not the only piece
of property in the area which could be acquired for park. As we go further on in the
discussion about the land holdings in the area, you'll see that. However, I believe the
Stockdale's are in a position to at least come to the bargaining table at present and see if
something could not be worked out. So if that's your desire, I will take direction in that
regard. Moving further south with some of the other properties. It would be my belief that
the Bentz and Turcott properties would not be available for acquisition by the city. Each one
of these 5 acre parcels have a residence constructed on them somewhere centrally located on
that lot. The southern property has some wetland impacts on the rear of the property and
then in addition, the Highway 5 frontage road, or access boulevard, will come and probably
make this southern comer to some degree in that location. You're all familiar with Swings
Golf and then you move across Galpin to the southeast comer of Highway 5 and Galpin and
there's a piece of property, the VanDeVeire property. These two locations would not be
desirable for any park obviously because of their location. Coming around the bottom side
and you have a 50 acre parcel owned by Mr. Conway. Mr. Conway has been in conversation
with Mike Gorra and a potential joint development of those two properties so there at least
has been conversation. These represent some substantial land holdings in the area which will
probably see some development of some type in the future. To the north you have Windmill
Run and Royal Oaks, which the commission is aware. Are currently being developed for
single family homes. Then north of that you have the Prince Nelson property which is hard to"
venture a guess as to what the future of that property is but it certainly may see some
development at some point in the future. The other one to consider would be potentially the
other half of the other segment of the Dolejsi property, which is separated from the northeast
by that wetland that comes in through here. There are some additional issues which the
commission needs to discuss this evening. Those centering around city sponsored recreation
programs. These potential subdivisions create 234 lots between them. A portion of the Park
and Recreation Department sponsored programs currently take place directly in neighborhood
parks. Those being such programs as Summer Discovery Playground and tennis lessons.
What would the city's commission, Park and Recreation Commission's policy be i.f you were
approached by the neighborhood to provide public recreation services within those private or
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Park and Recreation Commission. - August 24,1993
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association park? I think ~at's something we should discuss her~ this evening. And then
ultimately your decision, whatever it is. would have IOme impacts on future comU'issioDS in
that regard. Second issUe is. the trail easement Ilong GIlpin Blvd.. .1be. applicant's letter of
August 18th references 17 feet of right-of-way along Galpin Blvd ad the pading for . trail
alignment within that 17 feet.. . &is position is in direct CODfIict with ItIfrsrecommCllldation
that. 20 foot easement for hiI purpo$eS be cledicateclldjacent to.the aew right-of-way.1bat
recommendation is consistent with the action by the ComJllission IDd the Council all the way
up and down Galpin Blvd. starting on the lOutheml8lChes ICIOSS Biihway ., with Stone
Creek. the Hans Hagen developmeDt where the right-of-way was takeD IDd theD _ IdclitionaJ
20 feet of trail easement Ind now they're constructing that trail within that easemeDt. Moving
north to the Windmill Run _d the Klingelhutz developmeDt _d theD Bret Davidson _d his
development there. So th.t has been. ~stentrecommendation _d consistent action by
the Council. The applicant will be presenting his diagrams this evening sho~g potentially
how the trail construction could take place within . right-of-way. I win respond to that
presentation at that time. I did h.ve . chance to have. eo.nversation with the City Engineer
II1d the Assistant City Engineer in that regard today 10 m have IOme additional information
for the....t that time.. The depiction of passive play areas on the attachment to the letter dated
August 18th. As the commission will recall, one concern about the poteDtial association or
private park in the Song property was that at some point In the future it could revert back to
the city ownership and city operation of maintenance. And one thing the commission and the
city typically want to see in those neighborhood parks is _ open playtield so it.was a
direction to the applicant to identify that. An attempt was made to do so on this diagram
which identifies two areas th.t's shaded and labeled then as passive ~reation. J would agree
that they probably could be used for passive recreation but they have steep slopes in those .
areas and they're very small, or relatively small so . game of pick-up baseball or something
of that nature would not be appropriate there. The minimum size of 250 x 250 would reach
the. just by having the thought process. So neighborhood children can pick up a game of .
baseball or softball, how much distance would you allow between home plate and the first
window of some garage or the house adjoining the park. And 250 feet is about the minimum
amount you could safely. I think you could reduce that down to IOmewhat...over 200 feet.
Conclusions that were made. I think the Ipplicant has attempted to satisfy the desires of the
commission in regards to park II1d trail amenities but is falling slightly short of the city's
mark. Specifically in regard to the private park amenities and the whole issue of the private
park but .gain that is IOmethinl that the commission has to wrestle with as well. I've talked
about the open playfield area _d the failure to identify ODe of those. The question of .
whether or not land in the area are available for developmeDt as public park space remains
Wlanswered. I think...Dew information today. That information was lathered _d lJI'eed to
about 3:45 p.m. meeting this aftemoon 10 you can see it....has not been developed. But it is
certainly . possibility. There's always future events which kind of cartwheel upon ODe
another as to what is goinS to occur with the lad holdings in the vicinity. However, it can
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24. 1993
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certainly always be said that if it's your wish to acquire some parkland. you can probably
make that happen but again that statement is also applicable to the subject property. In regard
to the 20 foot trail easement. as I mentioned. we will talk about that more during the
applicant's comments. The offer to incorporate the trail alignment along the large wetland is
commendable. These types of trails are desirable in our society. They allow an opportunity
to come in close contact with our natural surroundings. However it is staffs position that this
trail should be constructed in conjunction with the initial public improvements in the area. As
the commission is aware. it is very difficult to go back once the homes have been developed.
even if you have a trail alignment identified and even if somebody else is going to pay for it.
At that time it becomes much more difficult to get that trail constructed so it would be staffs
recommendation to see that construction take place with the adjoining improvements. or the
adjacent improvements in the area. Recommendation. It is recommended that the preliminary
plat to subdivide 112 acres from Rural Residential to Planned Unit Development into 115
single family lots, referenced as the Song property, be approved by the Park and Recreation
Commission contingent upon the following conditions of approval being met. There's two
each in regard to parks and trails. In regard to parks. That the private association park be
approved only if the additional amenity of an open field with a minimum size of 200 feet
square with a maximum of 4% slope be added to the park layout. This open field is to be in
addition and not in lieu of existing propo~ed amenities. And then second, that full park fees
shall be paid at the rate in force upon building permit application. In regards to trails, we
have two issues there. A 20 foot trail easement shall be granted along the entire easterly
property line. Furthermore, that this easement shall be included in the grading plan for the
project with a suitable trail bed being prepared. That trail bed may meander within this
easement alignment at the discretion of the applicant. but the eventual alignment must be
conducive to future trail construction and is subject to approval as part of the grading plan
review. Then again, planting of trees shall be restricted to areas west of that trail bench or
outside the trail. Secondly, that the applicant shall dedicate lands to accommodate trail
construction along the southern boundary of the Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner preliminary plat as
depicted on the attachment in your packet. The applicant shall map and construct a trail
paralleling that wetland. This construction is to be completed per city specifications at the
time of adjoining street construction. Final alignment of this trail shall be staked by the
developer and approved by the Park and Recreation Director and the City Engineer. In
recognition for this dedication of this trail corridor and the construction of that trail. it is
recommended that the applicant receive a full trail fee credits at the time of building permit
application for both the Song property and the Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner applications. That will
require amendments to the conditions of approval associated with the preliminary plat for the
Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner properties. This trail shall include a connectionto the street plan as
indi cated between Lots 16 and 17. Block 2. or a suitable similar location in that vicinity. I
believe that last item is also an issue which the applicant would like to discuss with the
commission tonight. With that, I'll turn it over to you Chairman Schroers.
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Schroers: Okay. I think at this time it would be Ippropriate to hear what the Ipplicant has to
say.
Teny Forbord: Members of the Park Commission, my 1WDe is Terry Forbord I'm with
Lundgren Bros, 935 East Wayzata Blvd and Mr. Hoffman did a aood job in summarizing all
the issues related to this proposal..mated to IUs ttaff report to the Park ad Rec Commission.
He's right, on August 9th we went out IDd walked the wetlands where the public trail is being
proposed. As you recall at the lut meeting I liked that this item be tabled because as I was
sitting and listening to the Parks Commission it .became clear to me 1hat you liked our .
proposal but the part that you didn't like about it was the fact that we had ID association park
versus a public park. At leat that's...some smaller issues. For us we think it is~, wry
important for the success of this neighborhood to have something that is within the
community that the city will not.be able to provide. And we've gone, taken th" extra effort
and tried to explain those items to you and why we think its important and...As I was sitting
here listening to the comments of the commission. J thought that maybe there's an
opportunity, and I wasn't sure at the time. but maybe there's ID opportunity to provide a public.
experience that would benefit everybody who lives in the city that would CODDect to city
public trails that presently are planned for Highway 41 and Galpin Blvd. Now for those of
you who have ever walked trails, whether they be municipal or COlDlty or otherwise, there are
different types of trail experiences. Certainly the type of trail experience that we would enjoy
on Highway 41 is one of pretty much utilitarian needs. Trying to let from one Point A to
Point Boo.by traffic. You might have some enjoyable experience, you're out exercising. .etc but
it's not going to be the type of trail experience that you'd probably want to 10 for relaxation.
So as I was contemplating that. thought that I should maybe think about that. Maybe I have
an opportunity to provide the city with something that would connect those two public trails
that are utilitarian in nature and provide an experience that would be different. So Parks
Director Hoffman and I walked that property IUd it was a nicer experience thlD IlDticipateci
it would be. I think primarily because of the topogrlphy of the area. The area in question
around the wetland is quite a bit lower than all the other upland areas that IUrrOlDIds it. Some'
of the pictures of slides that he showed represent that but it's hard to describe what you'd be
able to see if you were there in person. While we were walking riaht in this area riaht here,
excuse me. We were walking right here, we saw a buck come out of the. woods and nm
across here and he came across here. We startled another buck in the laraer JI'ISS. We saw
hawks and the thing that was probably more unique to it than lDything. was the quiet that
was down there. Probably because of the depression to the rest of the land arolDld it IDd all
the upland. When you're up in this area YOUCID hear Hiahway 41 and Highway 5. I don't
recall hearing any highway noise at all when I was down here 10 it was very quiet. I quickly
realized what I had hoped to realize IDd that it was . unique experience that might be of
interest to the city. Now normally we would not be proposing to the city a public trail
corridor in the back yards of homes because our home buyers would tell.us normally that they
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24. 1993
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would be very. very opposed to that. And these issues have been fought in battles in every
city in the metropolitan area. Most people would prefer not to have a trail in their back yard.
If it was directly there to see it. The unique thing about this site. and the sites around it. is
most of it. not all of it'but most of it is wooded. And like I said. where the trail would be is
at the toe of the slope and the homesites are up higher. So I weighed that and like I said.
normally we wouldn't be proposing that because it's something that we fear. The last thing
you want to do is do something to a homesite that would make it so nobody would want to
buy it. And in talking to Park Director Hoffman. he kind of...on us a little bit. He did and I
did and there's a trade off. There might be some people that would look at it as a benefit. I
mean from my experience I can tell you that most people. if they can see it. If it's right out
their back door and they're sitting on their deck. the last thing...talking to their spouse. most
people would not want to see people walking in their backyard. The unique thing of this. is
that all those lots in those areas are very deep lots. Most of them are very wooded and most
of them are very high. There's only a section of lots right through here. I think there's
probably S. maybe 6 at the very most. that you had...where you could actually. if you were on
your deck, you'd be able to look down and see a trail. The unique part about that is that
when you're up high and looking beyond the trail, there's a vista that probably goes for maybe
a couple miles. As far as the view that you can see. So there's going to be some trade off's
there. So the way I look at it. after a lot of thought. is there's 5 or 6 lots here that may be
impacted by that trail. And if there's some people don't like that. well we have. other lots
that are available to them that they don't have to buy the lot on the trail either. Now if I had
20 or 30 lots in here affected by that trail. I would not even consider proposing it. I think
because of that. I had 5 lots. there might be somebody who's a rollerblader in that family who
would want to..get on that trail and rollerblade around. There's probably 5 people out there
that might be willing to do that. So normally we wouldn't be proposing this. I think the
situation is a little unique. I think it offers an experience that. I'm real familiar with
Chanhassen trails and...but I think this would be certainly fair to say that this is a little
different experience than some of the other trails that are provided in the city. And it does
link two trails that will be common routes for school children going through to school that
will be at Galpin and Highway S. The land...down by Swings or across the street from
Swings. there will be "..or some type of tunnel system that goes under Highway 5 to the
school and community park area that will be there as part of the school grounds. So this kind
of ties it all together. I wish I could tell you that I thought of this in the beginning and it was
a well conceived master plan...so I think that it's really something unique that is a benefit to
the city. The other item that I would like to address. and there was some public comment at
the last meeting about the availability of other properties for sale in the area. As Parks
Director Hoffman has explained to you this evening. you have a willing seller who would like
to have a public park right in his front yard and that is Mr. Stockdale. Mr.Stockdale asked to
meet with me last week. unless he's changed his mind since then. He's very. very encouraged
by the idea of having a park in his front yard. As long as he can meet a satisfactory
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agreement with the city and that was none of my business SO I didn't aet into that with him .
But he met with me and asked me if I would be wiUina...acquirins the ~ainder of his
property... So we havo a unique situation .mere we now have somebody who', wiIlina to
provide the city with the parkland that the city has indicated is desired from them. ~t the
same time, LWldarenBros riaht next door is willina to .build two association parks at our. cost
providins amenities that the city ClDDpt provide it's residents and we also _ lOina to"
continue to earee" to pay park dedication fees...IO it seems to me that all of the thinp that
were of concern to the parks cioJDJDjssion at our. last meetinJ, have the potential for beinS
addressed well beyond, exceedinsthe limits or, or the expectations that normally' would be
available to the city in aJivenarea.1f yo.u add up all the amenities in that area,U'~
public parkland is acquired, andwi1b the. traill)'stem that's there that was nevei' part of the
Comp Plan, you have a park and trail experience in an area that most cities would be very
pleased... The other Wlique thinS about the Stockdale property is that there's been a lot of
discussion about obtaining the right type of property for the ript type of use. The Stockdale
property is relatively ftat. It has easy access to Galpin Boulevard. It offers the type of
topography that is conducive to that type of use. .y ou will not find that type. of lad on the
Song property. In discussing.
Schroers: Can I ask a question? Would LWldgren Bros be interested in doing preliminary
grading on that site were we to find that accessible?
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Terry Forbord: Which site sir?
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Schroers: What you're speaking about on the Stockdale property . I mean I realize that this is
all hypothetical that it would happen but is that somethina that LWldgren Bros would
consider?
Terry Forbord: If L~dgren Bros has equipment on site at the time that the city would like to
have that park developed and araded, we'd be willinS to talk to the city to try to facilitate the
most inexpensive way of development. The timinS would probably be the key.
Berg: Could I ask a couple questions about the trail before you move 100 far away from that.
My recollection from the lastmeetins was that one of the concerns with havina a city park
within that association, within that development, was the concern of the neipbors to the type
of people that wOuld be comina in to use the city park outside of theneighborhoocl. I'm
wondering if you've Jiven thoupt to the fact that this trail is also aoina to introduce people
into that neighborhood, into that development.
Terry Forbord: That was an item that we did Dot raise. That was an item that somebody else
raised. I never, ever said that we were concerned about the type of people that would be
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coming into our neighborhood. I never stated that.
Berg: So for you that's not a factor at all?
Terry Forbord: I think the question. at least that I recall. if I remember my response. it is a
concern of our's and people. and this is not unlike if this was a townhome development or if
this was an apartment complex. People are paying for a facility that happens to be there with
their money. They are maintaining it. I think that it's fair that those people would have a
concern about the use of people from outside the area coming to use it. It is not a concern of
our's with any of the type of people that live in Chanhassen...So as far as the experience with
the trail. as I said. I probably don't have words that are creative enough to describe it. I was
very pleasantly surprised and I had been down there like 4 years ago but when you're looking
at land for the first time and you're trying to make some buying decisions. it's different than
when you're out trying to imagine an experience of a trail...
Berg: One other question regarding the trail as well. My concern would be that because this
is a private association park. that this trail might also be construed as a private trail. Would
you have any. I would assume that you probably wouldn't have any trouble with identifying it
as a city trail so that everyone in the city would know that it was accessible to them.
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Terry Forbord: We would have absolutely no problem with that. In fact it connects with two
planned city public trails now along Highway 41 and Galpin. I'm not sure if the city has a
sign system that designates the trail but if they don't. we would not have any problem
whatsoever designating that.
Lash: I have a question too in regards to that. From the looks of the plan. it doesn't actually
connect TH 41 to Galpin. Is that correct? At this point it doesn't.
Hoffman: Correct.
Lash: Okay, so what is the potential. Say we were to acquire the Stockdale property. How
did that. knowing that I'm not always really good at reading these maps but can you show
me. would the park property abut this wetland so that we could continue the trail from the
wetland right into the park property?
Hoffman: I think Mr. Forbord could go ahead and show that. ...potentially you could loop
the trail up around the cul-de-sac and bring it into the Stockdale property.
Lash: I guess for future. if this all comes together, that would be maybe one of my hopes
would be that we could ultimately have that trail connect into the public park and then on out
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to Galpin. And then ultimately if the Dolejsi, the southern segment were to come in for
development, that we would have earmarked, at this time I \1VOuld like to have it earmarked
that we would want alsO to have an easement to continue ,around that development also so we
could end actually with . whole circled area in there with . trait,.
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Terry Forbord: Let me comment on . couple things. Todd and I were out walkinliDthis
area. There's kind of an existinl f~ road that presently tiDcl of crosses riaht here. There
was a slide of that.Jt's kind of hard to decipher ani_you would have mown that that's
what it was. We were tlyinl to decide would it make more sense to ao up this 'Way met
come down here. And at that time the Stockdale proposal was DOt . discussion 10 we had
contemplated primarily how would we let over here to make it connect with 1he trail that
went over to the school. So I would imagine that there's very probablylOme sense in tryinl
to connect that to that..,and probably wOuld happen durinl the pJattinl process of the
Stockdale property. As far as continuation of the trailll'Ound the entire wetland. Lundaren
Bros does not control this portion of the Dolejsi property. "at would have to be IOmethinl
that would be handled a differently...
Lash: That was directed to staff that as those come in for development, I would want that to
be looked at. So the Stockdale property, is that the riabt hand comer...?
Terry Forbord: Actually it loes down and probably riabt there...
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Lash: The Stockdale property?
Terry Forbord: That's correct. His property is riabt in here. And whether that is the best
place for the trail to come in. I couldn't answer that. There may be some wisdom to that if
there's a public park...
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Lash: Okay, thank you.
Terry Forbord: Chairman Schroers, you had asked about tree5...reJated to that proposed trail
and I think it's fair to say that the toe of the slope.
Schroers: May I clarify that. I wasn't referrinl only to the trail but to the entire development.
How much impact is the development loinl to have on the trees there was my question. Not
specifically the trail.
Terry Forbord: On the Sonl property or the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer property?
Schroers: Yes. On the entire development is where I have an interest actually.
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Terry Forbord: You know I'd have to. I can't remember what all the specifications of the
preliminary plat on the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer property...On the Song property...somewhere
around 30%. Maybe less than that. That includes right-of-way and...
Schroers: Okay. and that came about before the development of the Tree Board so that won't
apply to your development but that is .pretty consistent with what is happening now. There's
pretty much a 30%.
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Terry Forbord: And we're trying to follow that and I know the public hearing was cancelled
and I certainly will be present at that public hearing because there's a lot of issues that I think
need to be discussed on that but I'll wait until that public hearing before I do. A couple more
items. Just to answer the question about the trail. Most of the trees that are d~wn by the
wetland are box elders. Parks Director Hoffman identified those for me becaus~ I'm not an
arborist or anything and some of them are dead too. And I think it's fair to say that near the
toe of the slope. that's where the trees are terminating. And for a trail to be there. to have
that type of experience where you're right next to the wetland and right next to the woods.
there will be some vegetation. some brush. possibly a few scrub trees type things that would
be...part of that trail construction. But I believe the trails are presently 8 feet? So I really
think it will be extremely minimal given .the circumstances. About the item in the association
park about...flat area to have a little more active recreation. First of all there won't be any
homes anywhere near the association park. or certainly not close enough to where anybody
could cause damage to one of those homes by swinging. And secondly.. the idea of those
association parks is not to have pick-up games and that's. they're designed so those type of
things aren't going to be available. Now we do think it was an excellent idea that the staff
had of trying to expand some flat area there so...play frisbee or if you wanted to play catch or
throw a football a little bit. we think that's a good idea. But we do not want to make 250 x
250 feet. That's 3/4 of the length of a football field and that's an awfully large area flatten.
especially in light of the fact that if the city is successful in it's attempts to acquire public
property in there, that's really the type of area that would be conducive for those types of
activities. Let me just talk a little bit about the trail along Galpin Blvd. If I may. I'll just go
to the overhead. On the overhead presently it shows the existing condition of Galpin Blvd.
To my knowledge. the Galpin Blvd currently has a 66 foot right-of-way and there's
approximately 13 feet of pavement in each direction for a combined pavement of 26 feet. So
there's 20 feet of right-of-way on each side of the pavement. From the pavement edge to the
edge of the right-of-way. Now what the city is proposing for the future of Galpin Blvd would
be that it would be a 100 foot wide right-of-way and the pavement would be. if it ever were
expanded to 4 lanes. would be 26 feet in each direction so you have two lanes heading south
and two lanes heading north. The city desires. and it is so noted on the comprehensive plan
to have a trail. a north/south trail along Galpin Blvd. And I'm not sure if it states it should be
on both sides or not but I know it's important for the city to have some trail connection there.
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And this is not an uncommonfequest.Jthink inlDY city in the metropolitan area that you
would go to, on a key north/south street like d1is,it would be nasonable to say that any
municipality and parks commission would hope tobave lOme type of 1rai1 there and we think
that's a good idea. We have absolutely DO problem \Vith. that idea. Especially beclUse it's
going to be a key route for children JOina to the DeW sda001.lVilat we do have tome
difficulty with, and this is also,~..eonsistent around the metropOlitan area but oftentimes there
are rights-of-way or easements asked for byeitller .the enaineerina department or IOmetimes a
parks department for ~ditional amount ()ftakina of private property. for use that really JOel
beyond what the need is to accomplish the ame tuk. And in this particular cue, we think
that it's creating an unnecessary burden on, DOt only the land developer but the IlDd owner
and we think it readily can be accomplished the objective without such. takina.As you'll
see on the upper left here, therets a diaaram in your packet. You have your center line of the
road, 100 foot right-of-way, two lanes are loina north and two Janes are headinglOUth.lts
very important for the city to have a utility corridor and rm sure there will be a response to
things I'm going to tell you but the utility corridor sives the city the ability to nm utilities, .
whatever they may be, private or public, in this area. And there also is on the other side you .
have to remember there's 24 feet that right now isn't being used at all. .1bere's also a utility
corridor opportunity there. I'm not sure if the city presendy has planned another 1rai1 on that
side. I'm not sure if it would make sense to have a trail on both sides but you do have 24
feet on the other side of the road. On this side, what we're showing here within the existing,
or excuse me. Within the proposed right-of-way, wetre showing an 8 foot wide trail. lbat's...
been asked for and was connected to the Coinp Plan and it can easily be constructed in that
right-of-way. And ~en there mows an additional, and this is for illustrative purposes only.
It's showing an additional 6 feet between the edle of the trailllld what would be the toe of a
berm that would screen future homes along Galpin Blvd from this traffic that will be
occurring over time. Now the utility corridor also provides a butTer &om the eelge of the curb
to the people that are walking. This is what we believe to be totally compatible with what the
desires of the city are. We believe that all the utility corridors and utility items necessary can
80 in that corridor. There's plenty of room for it there. If additional right-of-way is uked
for, then you're expanding into the private property area of the back yards of those future
homeowners and it's not really needed. As an example I'll show you, this is an exhibit that
was put together by one of the city's consultants for a different city in Woodbury.Bonestroo
was the consultant here. And this is a minor arterial street in Woodbury, IDd fmjust
showing this for an example of what other cities in situations like this. It can be clone IDd
I'm showing you that it can be done. That it's not uncommon. This is an 15 foot riaht-of-way
which is 15 feet narrower than the proposecland shows .,ain .. Janes of traffic. Two heading
for illustrative purposes, fn saytwoheadinl north and two headinglOuth. It shows the 10
foot corridor for the trail and has a 9 foot space...with the slope. 'Ibis is the design ript out
of the spec book and the trail that is being constructed in Woodbury. And 10 theie kinds of
things are being done and there are opportunities for utility corridors in here on this side, on
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this side and so the only thing that we're stating to you is that we are not at all at difficulty
with the concept. We think the concept is a great concept but we think. that more right-of-
way is being required than is necessary to accomplish the task and we would like you to
consider amending the' request to lessen the amount of right-of-way that's required on the trail
because it really becomes land...
Lash: Mr. Forbord, just to clear me up. The bottom picture. Is that what you're proposing
or is that what we're proposing?
Terry Forbord: This is what we would be proposing.
Lash: Is that with the 17 foot trail easement as opposed to the 20 foot?
Terry Forbord: There's an additional right-of-way that is being required by the county and by
the city of 17 feet and we would like to put the trail within that right-of-way. The 17 feet on
each side so 17 and 17 is 34.
Lash: On each side of the road?
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Terry Forbord: 17 feet on each side of Galpin so right now if you recall, this is 66. So if
you add 17 feet on this side and 17 feet on that side, that's 34 to make it 100. That's a very,
very wide right-of-way and the point I'm making is that cities are putting the same things in
right-of-ways that are 85 feet. And certainly I think it's fair to say, this isn't true everywhere
but there's certainly, from a planning perspective, is a movement afoot to lessen right-of-way.
To lessen the width of roads except for roads that are very, very necessary and all we're
saying here is that we think it's an excessive taking that infringes upon the development
opportunity of those lots that we're having to back up to. Now remember, the challenge that
we have, if we really want to do a nice job with those lots, the challenge that we have is how
do we screen those lots from Galpin Blvd because I don't think it'd be fair for me to try to
sell my home to future home buyers. Oh yeah, Galpin Blvd's always going to be this real
nice, sleepy road. Two lanes. One going north. One going south. That isn't what I'm going to
be telling them. I'm going to be telling them that someday this is going to be a very, very
busy road and I'm going to have to, in order for me to do a good job to protect those people
from that busy road, I should be building a berm. I should probably be landscaping it. I
should probably trying to be buffering the impact with that road. Well, if you start taking
more right-of-way for trail purposes than is necessary, I can't put the berm that close to the
road and it keeps moving the berm this way. If I keep moving the berm this way, then I'm
moving that berm into the back yards, bringing the berm closer to the house. People will be
sitting on their deck and all of a sudden there's a berm there. And every little foot makes a
difference to the people who happen to be buying these homes.
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Lash: So we're talking a difference of 3 feet, ript?From what the recommendation is cd
what you're suggesting?
Terry Forbord: No. No. they want III
Andrews: Outside the 100 foot
Terry Forbord: And that's where 1he problem we CID the
trail corridor within the 100 foot ript-of-way IDd have .all that pavement IIld all1hat butTer
cd everything. I mean I'm not trying to say that, . melD I can't blame city -iineers for
wanting more rights-of-way for their needs ad I auess I can't blame the Park Department for .
wanting as much right-of-way uthey possibly ClDaet for . trail but 1he point is...DOt to put .
berm in. For.the people looking at. road. well thatwouldn'be very Dice either. Or the
other alternative is to obliterate these lots ad just not have them. 'Or move this toad,
continue moving, I mean it's just not, We think it's overkillllld we cIon't 1hink it's necessaty
and we think the diagram. shows that. We think what's happeDs in other cities shows. it...
Now there are cities that are but certainly it's fair to say that nowadays cities are starting to
take a look at that. If we really don't need it, why should we be asked for it. Just.a few last
items that I'd like to cover.. talked to Parks Director Hoffman about the construction of the
proposed public trail and he didn't have a problem with this proposal. . i think his staff report
already says that but we would like to build that public trail U, the development will be
phased. We'U be doing one phase and we'd like to build that public trail along that phase and
then when we do the next phase, build that segment of the public trailllld then as you 10,
because.that's how you're going to be doing the grading. You kind of build it as you go ad I
think that's what, I'm .not sure but I think...talking today. And lastly, two last items. We
would have to amend our PUD approval that we already have on the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tmner
property in order to accomplish this. We would like, and. don't knowif1his is really. Park
Commission issue but we'd like the fees. waived to accommodate that. ADd the last item
would be that it's been the desire of the Park Director, IIld I think it's . aood idea. I'm just
not sure how to facilitate it right now. I believe that we'll be able to tipe out . way but it's
the desire, the idea of the Parks Director, I'll aivehim credit for it If you recall there's that
proposed trail corridor along through here. And he would like us to put a connection from
the street B, between . couple of these lots here clown to that trail. And obviously that poses
. little bit of a problem for us because to be fair to those future homeowners, I'm ping to
obviously have to tell them that .ere's ,oing to be.. traillink...but not only that, I need to
kind of protect them a little bit from that trail for the same reasons that I've already identified.
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
Now I wouldn't have to do this but I just think it's right. We should put some kind of
plantings along there. Some trees so they don't just see people walking down their side yard
lot line. So my concern is that somewhere along in here I'm going to have to adjust some lot
lines too I think in order to make those home sites so they're negatively impacted by that
connection. Now I'm going to need some cooperation probably from the Planning Department
and from the Engineering Department to accomplish that. And I think that they're willing to
compromise...but this is of concern to us. And now the reason I bring it up is because we'll
have to amend this preliminary plat. We're going to have to try to find a way of how do we
do that in here. Make two of those lots a little wider in order to be able to buffer those home
sites from that link. And so we would like approval to direct staff to work with us to try and
figure out a way to accomplish that, because I'm not sure how we can do that. I think the
idea's a sound idea but I sense I'm going to need the cooperation of other departments,
planning and engineering.
Lash: What are your, I'm just looking at, I see there's kind of a short cul-de-sac right in th~
middle. Yep. Okay, go to the comer lot there. So if you ran it there, you'd be yeah. Wopld
that work better? It wouldn't be in the side yard of two houses. It be along the back.
Terry Forbord: Yeah, you know that's one of those things that's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of
the other. You know the people that are sitting on this, their deck here trying to have their
quiet enjoyment, would it impact them more to have the trail here than to try to put it
between the side of the yard of that lot line. And I don't know right now. To me the way we
would normally go about that, we would first of all try to get the other departments to
cooperate and maybe allowing us to adjust some lot lines, because I do think it's an important
issue. I don't think it'd be fair to those future home buyers if we just ignore it. So what I
would do then is I would like to stake the field. I mean this is the kind of thing you go out
in the field and kind of do it there rather than just on a piece of paper because you get a more
real feeling of it. All I'm asking for, and I think most of you would probably agree. Yeah,
this is a consideration we should give to the homeowners. And we're just going to need the .
cooperation of Todd's letter and he's said that he'd be happy to work with me on that. I
would just like whatever approval or recommendation you give tonight, that you would direct
staff, engineering and planning to assist us to accomplish that. Because we think it's a good
idea. I'll be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Schroers: Okay. Well thank you very much Mr. Forbord and we appreciate your work and
your effort in trying to work with the city and I'm going to open this up to commission
discussion in just a minute. I think we need to refocus what the role of this commission is
regarding this particular, not only this development but this area. This area is a park deficient
area so as the area develops, the city needs and our mission here is to acquire public parks
space in park deficient areas so the surrounding community has facilities to use. . So we have
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Park and Recreation. Commission - August 24, 1993
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to keep that in mind. lbere'spossibilities of development of public park property on the
Stockdale property and other potential development sites in the area. However, diose are
possibilities that may or may DOt happen. We may or mayeot be Ible to Clpitalize on diem,
This is the biggest development proposed diat we bow of in die area. It is the most logical
place to acquire the needed parkland and it is what's happening now in fact so with diat in
mind, I'd like to open it up to any commission. response,':'i~~,'"".',
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Lash: I'd like to hear if there are any other publiCcouUnents first.'! 'don't bow.if diere are.
Schroers: Is there anyone else in the audience diat would wish to make a ..ement in reaard
to the Lundgren Bros development thiseveninJ?
Andrews: I have a question for Todd. If we were to take staff rec:ollUDendati~n, what would
be the approximately amount of fees diat we would collect for this development?
Hoffman: Park fees currently are $600.00. Those are increased on an annual basis. So if'
this is thing gets in the around 1994, you'll probably see those closer to S700.00.Say you
have 200 in total, 234 homesites I believe I stated. So it would run Ibout $140 some
thousand dollars.
Andrews: And then kind of as a follow up question. 'If the city were to develop a e
neighborhood park simiilar to what Lundgren is proposing to build at dieir cost. what would
be our cost to develop that?
Hoffman: I couldn't answe.r that question...
Schroers: Okay we do have, please come forward. State your name.
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Dave Stockdale: My name's Dave Stockdale and I diinkmost ofyou...1 had conversations
with both Todd and Terry and it's too early to say whether or not it's going to come to
fruition but we are, my wife and I are definitely open to the concept of parkland adjoining
our property. There's a lot of things that have to be worked out before I say it's a 80 JO but
we're definitely in dialogue on it.
Schroers: Well I appreciate you bringing that information forward becaua as you can see,
this is a difficult, complicated issue ript here IDd my personal feelina is that there is a lot of
unanswered questions and we need to do some J1'01D1d work and make a pllD J feel, you
know and have something to work with before we can JO ahead and make any kind of real
definitive recommendation. J mean I think we would be premature at this point ~ JO ahead
and make these recommendations not. bowina on what we are aoina to be able to or what we
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
aren't going to be able to do in the future. I mean we need to do some research here before
we can make an educated decision on this.
Dave Stockdale: Weare going to consider your dialogue, however it passes tonight and
proceed.
Schroers: Any new information, we'd appreciate knowing about it.
Dave Stockdale: We']] keep you posted.
Schroers: Thank you.
Lash: Is it possible to make a recommendation contingent on the fact that we Wi]] be able to
acquire some properties for public park? And if that situation disappeared, we'd be able to
come back and change our recommendation.
Hoffman: That was my thought this afternoon. I called to the City Attorney's office and got
in too late in the day to get an answer to that question.
Schroers: That almost seems like it would be unfair though to the developer and to anyone
else if we say well, yeah. We']] go along with this provided that we can make another deal
and get halfway through another deal and that doesn't pan out and then come back at a later
date and tell this developer that no, they've got to change their plans. I don't think we want.
to do that.
Hoffman: I think you're correct in that assumption.
Schroers: Mr. Forbord.
Terry Forbord: Mr. Chair, members of the Park Commission. Terry Forbord with Lundgren
Bros. Lundgren Bros would prefer this evening that the commission would either vote for or
against the proposal and the reason is we have contract obligations with our sellers. We
would rather walk away from this deal and know now rather than to continue it. We cannot
continue to...or we']] be in violation of our contractual obligations. We would prefer this
evening that you would vote for or vote against it. Thank you.
Schroers: Is there anyone else present in the audience this evening that would like to speak on
behalf of this project? Any other commission response?
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Park and Recreation Commission . ..\ugust 24, 1993
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Roeser: W ell I'm just wondering now, the recommendations that staff has made here. There
is absolutely no way that you can live with these, is that what I'm understanding here? The
20 foot trail easement for instance. Or adding the 250 square feet to the private park.
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Lash: Are you asking Mr. Forbord?
Roeser: Yeah. I just, yeah.
Terry Forbord: Mr. Chair, members of the Park Commission. Terry Porbord. I'm sony, I
didn't know you were addressing me. 1 thought you were talking to the Parks Director. We
feel that we have made an incredible proposal to the city. In light of all the amenities that we
are going to be putting in at our expense, and also we're SOing to Jive the city additional1and
for public right-of-way and also agreeing to pay park dedication fees. We really feel that we
have met the mark. I mean in . any other city I think you'd be bard pressed to find any city
that would not just welcome a proposal like this with ~ arms. And I'm not loing to stand
up here and say that we're the sreatest thing in the world, because we're DOt. We make a lot
of mistakes. I addre~ that at the last meeting but we do know what, the limitations of
what we can do from an economic standpoint and from a desip standpoint. And we bow
what works from a marketing standpoint. I think there may be some fine tuninl of some of
those items that you raised. If you take a.250 foot by 250 foot flat area in this leneral
vicinity, there isn't one. And we'd have to, I don't know what we'd have to do to our plan to
accomplish that. The only choice I would be able to do is take up a home site and I ~'t
afford to do that. So that to me becomes an issue where I can't do that. Now. essentially, if I
believe that the city is going to'.acquire a public park, and I believe that's in the city's best
interest, and I think they probably will do that, then that type of active...will be available at'
that park within very short distance along public trails right to there. So. what was the other
item other than the 250 x 250?
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Roeser: The 20 foot trail easement.
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Terry Forbord: Well what would happen is I would end up losing maybe a dozen Jots... The
alternative is taking and pushing that berm real close up to the houses.
Roeser: Now you've told us that. I lDlderstand that.
Terry Forbord: I wouldn't want to do that. I wouldn't want to selllOmebody a lot like that
and I don't think anybody would want to live on a Jot like that. If there was really a Deed
and it couldn't be done any other way, I wouldn't be proposing this but I know it can be done.
We've done it and other cities do it so that's the only reason I'm Proposinl it because I know
we can accomplish that and everybody can still have what they want.
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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Roeser: See what you're asking us to do though is to set some precedence here to do some
things that we've never done before. For instance, granting you the right to build a private
park. Granting you a 17 foot easement. We're changing some things here that by doing it,
the next developer that comes in is going to say hey. Look what you did here. Look what
you've given them. You know and then all of a sudden we're, it seems to me we're getting
ourselves into something.
Teny Forbord: Well to be honest with you, the city already has approved a preliminary plat
with an association park like this and the city's done so also at condominiums, apartment
complexes. They have very similar facilities. But you have to remember also this is a POO.
And if you read the zoning code, the intent of the POO ordinance is to provide flexibility...
exactly the types of things we're talking about. That's what a POO is for. It's a different
zoning tool, different zoning district that is essentially there so that, to break away from the
rigidity of standard subdivision planning. So the city, staff, park commissioners, planning
commissions, the council and the developer or the applicant can all come together with as
creative an idea as possible and it doesn't set a precedent because it's a POO.
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Lash: But the flip side of that is for a POO, it's the developer's obligation to provide above
and beyond what's normally required. So for us to be providing the flexibility to you, we're
supposed to be getting some pretty big paybacks, and right now I haven't really seen really
big paybacks. I mean I've seen some nice things but it's nothing way above and beyond what
we've seen in other developments so.
Schroers: Here's what I'd like to ask you Terry. It's not that we are against a community
having it's own amenities. Like you say, we all know that there are apartment complexes and
townhome complexes that have their own tennis courts and own swimming pools, all that
stuff. But how do we accomplish our job? How do we acquire public space in that
neighborhood? I can tell you from past experience, things that have happened many, many
years ago have come back to haunt us. Things that we had no control over. Nothing to do
with. People came back all of a sudden saying, where's our park and we're going, where's
what park. Well we were promised a park however many years ago and it's not there. And
now we want our park. And so where's the money coming from to develop it? Where is the
property coming from to put the park on? We're not going to get ourself in that situation
again. We can't and in order to conform to the master plan of the city and the whole
development of Chanhassen as a whole, somewhere in your neighborhood, which is park
deficient, we have to acquire public space. How do we do it? Where do we get it?
Teny Forbord: You know we agree with that. I know there are people who have come forth
to the city willing to sell their property. Mr. Stockdale just indicated tonight that he's having
dialogue with the city. I have not heard him say that he will not sell the city his land. I have
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heard him say that he's really interested in selling the city his land, as long as they can come
to satisfactory terms. and I know. there are odter parcels that were identified by Parks Director
Hoffman that are for sale rightDOw.Becausefm trying to buy them. .-1 don't bow if I'll be
successful so I know there's land out there. Jfthe. city real7 wants to buy parklmd, the city
can buy parks if they. want to. ..Nowthe lltemative, I mem there is a bottom line a1temative
to this is that if thec:ity doesn't WIIltus to develop it.1h_we'll tbidout.-->>,e'lllO away and
we11 just develop the site that we do have md1he city can wait for the next person to come
in and they can exact from 1hat 1*5On the parkland, if theyllaven't acquired any by 1hat time.
they can exact from that particular developer, if it ever4evelops ill the future, a lite on it.
Again. if they baven't IIreadyacquired it. .Ancl then what the City" KCQmplisbed is that they
bave a S acre site that needs to beimprovecl.11aey'renotFing to have, DO Jonger laave an
association park anywhere with the ather amenities because that willbeJODe.'''J'hose 1 SO
homeowners won't bave the benefit of a park. I memreally the altemative isn!treally . very
nice thing for the city either. Whether it's an ISSOciation park or a public park, it is providing
benefit to the citizens of the city. And so we think that it's. gift horse ill the mouth. We
really do. I understand your situation. I really do md Ido believe needs to be a public
park in that area. I've always favored that. -
Manders: I think the question on. you're talkinl about discussioDS with other land bolders in
the area. What is an acre of land going for?
Terry Forbord: In Chanhassen. residential.
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Manders: That area.
Terry Forbord: In that area, I haven't talked to everybody ill that area but I would imagine
that land in that area would probably be anywhere from S18.000.00 in the worst case, or the
lowest to $30.000.00 on the high end, It just depends on the site.
Berg: My concern. and certainly with your business...you know this better than 1. It's easy
for us to sit here and talk about the people who are willing to deal and who are talking to the
city but we also know that tomorrow they could chanae their mind. And then where are we?
We're riaht back to where we are now with an association park and nothing to serve the rest
of the people in that area. That's my concern. We can't sit bere and presume that there is
going to be land available tomorrow. I don't think we can make that kind of assumption.
Terry Forbord: J agree. I mem there's nothinl for IUI'IlDd I can terminate my option
tomorrow and I can walk away too. I mem 1I1ere'I no JUarlDtee that I'll be bere either. I
mean in this type of situation, there are no guarantees until you ICtually get to that point. We
think that we're bringing a real valid proposal that if we can make it through the process,
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
we'll have a very nice neighborhood for possibly people who already live in Chanhassen.
Most of our buyers come from the general area. We get some people from outside the area
so...citizens of Chanhassen. But I do believe that the city can buy some land. I really do
believe that, because if I can go out and buy it, there's no reason the city couldn't go out and
buy it.
Schroers: We can go out and buy it but it's really not the best means of acquisition. Roughly
speaking, just a very rough estimate in park dedication fees, we may get somewhere between
5120,000.00 and 5130,000.00 from your development. Okay. Figure an average of
525,000.00 per acre to acquire property. Might be a ballpark figure. For 5 acres we're
talking 5125,000.00 to acquire the property and then there are no funds left to develop it. If
we took your proposal, say we got 5120,000.00-5130,000.00 from you. Went and bought
property someplace else, all we're doing is a trade. We don't end up with a park that's
developed. We don't end up with any facilities. All we end up with is SI25,000.00 piece of
property that we still have to figure out a way to develop. Buy equipment for. Facilitate and
get up and running.
Andrews: I guess I'd like to comment. We'd be in that position either way.
Lash: You know, I was ready to move on this but I think we've got, unless somebody's got
something. We're talking this thing to death. But my idea was to do a recommendation that
was contingent on the factor of the city acquiring property for a public park. If that idea isn't
acceptable to the applicant, then I'm ready to come up with a new one. A new motion so.
Andrews: Let her fly.
Schroers: I'm ready at this point.
Lash: Okay. I guess I would move that we deny this application until we are able to acquire:
public property in the area.
Berg: Second.
Terry Forbord: Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. What was it that I wasn't acceptable to me and I wasn't
clear on.
Lash: We asked if having a contingent recommendation based on us acquiring a couple of
properties, we would make a recommendation based on that deal coming forth. And you said
you couldn't live with that because you've got contracts and people and you have:to get
moving and so if you can't live with that, I can understand that. But then we've got to do
23
Park and Recreation Commission ..August 24,1993
.
what we have to do too.
,.
Terry Forbord: Mr. ClWr. I \VIS Dot responding to Commismoner Lash's idea. I was
responding to the fact that we would like to know one way or the other whether the city
wants this proposal to proceed. I would bot be opposed to her. suggestion .as 10Dg as there
was like a time limit on it. because if it weAt on in perpetuity, it wouldn't serve the citylDd it
certainly wouldn't serve the Ippliemt So maybe it's fair to say that ~thin 30 days. .,' .
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Andrews: Mr. Chairman, we have a motion on the floor that's been seconded for denial. I
think we have to ask if the motion maker and the person who seconded it wish to withdraw e
that motion before we consider an alternative.
Lash: If a continge~t recommendation is acceptable to the applicant. then I'm willing to
withdraw my motion. .
Berg: I withdraw my second.
Schroers: Okay. Then. are we wiUing to, em I have a revised motion or Dew motion?
1
Lash: One thing that I guess I want to get other commission input on, because this was part
of my idea for a motion to start with. I want us to think about the idea for the importance of
the. I like the idea of the trail around the wetlmd.J don't know at this point in time if, and
maybe you guys em sell me one way or another, if I'm not interested in forfeiting the trail
fees to have that paved at this time. Or at the time of development. Or if we would rather
collect the fees and add that to our trail fund but just get the easement IDd maybe have it as a
natural trail or something for a while with the possibility of future pavement You know, I'm
going to throw that out just to see. Get feec:lback from you JUYs.
Berg: What's the lay of the land in terms of it being wet. etc. for a nature path?
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
Hoffman: Either way we would have to construct the nature path or asphalt path on high
ground. The thing that I would ask the Commission to consider is that the value you're
receiving in having the applicant construct it is far in excess of what you would have
available in trail fees to do other work. It is more benefitting to a significant degree in that
regard. I believe, also I...the commission some additional information briefly on the 20 foot
easement issue and regard to my conversation with the city engineer's office today. A couple
areas of discussion included, and I think Larry can respond to at least one of these. ...it was
the city's intention to install boulevard plantings, you're very limited. You could not do that.
You could not put boulevard plantings over a utility corridor because of what you find
underneath there. So that's one consideration in the area where the additional right-of-way for
the trails is required. The trail easement which we would look for outside of this line, is just
that. It's an easement for trail purposes. The trail can certainly be squeezed uP. against the
outside of that easement. What it's been referred to as before is an insurance policy. Once
that, these property lines come up in here, you've sold your interest in acquiring any
additional property into perpetuity. So you certainly want to take a look at those issues at
the time they are before you.
Lash: Can you show us with your pencil about where you're suggesting it should be.
e Hoffman: The trail would be outside of this line. From here over 8 feet.
Lash: The trail would be?
Hoffman: Yeah, the trail would be. The easement is 20 feet and an easement is just a
standard. It's not taking the property. It's an easement for trail purposes. We're saying that,
or staff is saying that the 8 feet can go here and then landscaping can go within that 20 foot
easement and it will act like rear yards. I'm not sure what these people will be doing on the
outside of this berm, or if that's going to be addressed as part of the association's covenants.
If that would be mowed and maintained or if that would be more natural. I'm not sure what
that would look like. An additional issue in regard to if the commission wanted to consider a
compromise in this issue, is I have taken into consideration turn lanes which would most
likely occur at these two locations. And at some point this is probably a signalized
intersection so if you put turn lanes in this right-of-way, you'd again take up . considerable
additional right-of-way in that location. That's the other difficult problem in location that
trail. So a compromise position presented by the engineering department would be to require
additional right-of-way for the length of those turn lanes, which is about, excuse me.
Additional easements for trail purposes. The length of that turn lane, which is about 300 feet,
to the north and south of these two access points...both acceleration and deceleration lanes
that are right off of and right onto.
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Park and Recreation Commission - Ausust 24.1~3
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Andrews: That's not consistent with other developments that are happening. There are
usually turn lanes off of collectors. Dot onto collectors that we're building.
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Hoffman: They...with the uppade of County Road 111, which is Powers Blvd There will
be both a deceleration and acc:eIeration... .,. ..~k.. .
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Lash: I would be rOady to make amotion on tbis.lt'saoing to be
Schroers: Okay . Let's make the motion IDd as the motion is takiDgplace. let us.. dlrougb
with the motion before there is IDY interruptiODS.,~,,~.,\ii,3~4,~ii,~~.i, _,
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Lash: Okay. Are there any othercO~ments from other...forthe trail ~g that I threw out?
Schroers: Just to eliminate confusion.
~.
Lash: I took staff's comment. Okay. I would move that we move the recommendation by
the City Council. or that we would recommend to the City Council the acceptance of a
private association park with the amenity of an open field with a minimum size of 250 square
feet and a maximum slope of 4%. This is to be in addition to and not in lieu of existing
proposed amenities. And that full park fees be accepted at the rate in force at the time of
building permit. And also as a condition to the park, I would want to have written in there
that if. in the future there was ~ssolution or any type of breakdown in this neilhborhood
association. that the City would be deeded this park as a park and not subdivided into lots.
Then to move onto the trail issue, There would be a 20 foot trail easement on the easterly
property line and that this easement would be included in the arading plan for a suitable trail
bed. And that there be no trees, planting of trees in the restricted area west of the trail bench.
Also that we would acquire easements and the developer would provide construction of the
nature trail. or the trail around the wetland. And in lieu of that, full trail fees would be
waived. And that the amendment be done to the Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner development from
last year, And let's see. There's somethina else.Oh, that we would direct staff to provide
cooperation to the developer and flexibility of allowing the trail connection from the street to
the wetland. And if the city were to acquire public property in this proximity, to 1his ..
development, that Lundgren 8ros would be cooperative in doing the rough aradina on that
site. And to direct staff that in the future the southern Dolejsi property would come forth or
any of the other properties affecting this wetland. that we would earmark that as a connection
to this trail around the wetland. Is that all of it?
,
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Schroers: Are you including that it's dependent on whether or DOt we have the ability to
acquire public space? .
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24. 1993
Lash: Right. That this recommendation be contingent on the fact that we are. the city is able
to acquire public property near this development. .
Andrews: Within?
Lash: Within 30 days.
Meger: Would we also at this time make the additional recommendation then for staff to
actively pursue the Stockdale property and other properties in the area or would that be a
separate?
Schroers: No. I think that would be appropriate to include. Or interpret into the 30 days? Is
that it?
Lash: Yep. Plus the friendly amendment.
Schroers: Staff. are you clear on that?
Hoffman: I'm clear. A couple of clarifications to the motion. The restricted on the trail
bench would be to the east. Just a clarification to the way Jan made her motion~ The issue
of the 30 days, I do not believe that that would be sufficient time. If it's agreeable to the
applicant. that that be extended to 45 days at a minimum. 60 days at a more comfortable
level. That would be. there would need to be appraisals made and City Council items and
your recommendation should include the friendly amendment by Commissioner Meger in that
regard because the Commission is going to want to know that the commission desires to see
that parkland. there is a park in that area. And finally. mention should be made about the
trail connection between Lot 16 and 17 or a similar location. That that be a condition of
approval as well.
Lash: Okay. I accept that.
Andrews: We might as well get them all out here. Lundgren Bros had asked that we would
recommend that any fees for PUD be waived for the already approved Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner
property and I think that would be consistent with the cooperative effort we're trying to
accomplish.
Lash: The trail fee?
Andrews: Not the trail fees. The charge to amend the PUD in order to redraw the lot lines
to put in the trail linkage.
27
Park and Recreation Commission -August 24, 1993.
..
Hoffman: That'd be an administrative charge, as far as I understand it that the Planning
Department would assess to the preliminll)'...
Andrews: We'd recommend that it be waived.
Lash: Okay. so we would waive that fee.
Manders: Wasn't there some comment about trail fees being mcluded mthis?
Andrews: We don't want fees.
Manders: Right.
Lash: And so if they build the trail, we'll waive the f~..
Manders: Right. Okay.
Schroers: And that's all included. I think we've covered most of the bases.
Berg: I think I'll second it.
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Andrews: Just a moment. The ,motion was 30 days. Are you making. it to 45 or 601
Schroers: Staff did that I think and Jan agreed to it.
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Hoffman: ...agree on which one. I'm not sure what.
Roeser: Make it 60.
Schroers: Would you like input Mr. Forbord1
~
Terry Forbord: Mr. Chair, members of the Parks Commission. Terry Forborcl My
contractual obligations are going to push me to the wall at 45 days..1 can accept that risk. 60
days I'd be in violation of my agreement ad it would cost me a fortune to amend the .
agreement because our agreement is written that if it goes beyond a certain time period and I
wouldn't be willing to spend that additional money at that ,omt in time but 45 days I can live
with.
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Lash: Okay, so we'l change it to 45 days...
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
Schroers: Okay, 4S days. Alright, we have a motion. We have a second. I'll call the
question.
Lash moved, Bell seconded that the Park _d Recreation Commission recommend that the
Oty Council approve the Preliminary Plat ... subdivide 112 acres from Rural Residential ...
Planned Unit Development (PUD) into 115 siDlle family loa continlent upon die followinl
conditioDS:
~
1. The acceptance of a private association park with the amenity of an open field with a
minimum size of 2S0 square feet and a maximum slope of 4%. This is to be in addition
to and not in lieu of existing proposed amenities.
2. Full park fees be accepted at the rate in force at the time of building permit application.
3. If in the future there is a dissolution or any type of breakdown in this neighborhood
association, that the City will be deeded this park as a park and not subdivided into lots.
4. This recommendation is contingent on the fact that the city is able to acquire public
parkland near this development within 4S days.
Trails:
1.
A 20 foot trail easement shall be granted along the entire easterly property line and that
this easement would be included in the grading plan for a suitable trail bed. This trail
bed may meander within the easement alignment at the discretion of the applicant, but
the eventual alignment must be conducive to future trail construction and is subject to
approval as a part of the grading plan review. Planting of trees shall be restricted to
areas west of the trail bench.
2.
The applicant shall dedicate lands to accommodate trail construction along the southern
boundary of the JohnsonlDolejsirrumer preliminary plat as depicted on Attachment #4.
The applicant shall map and construct a trail paralleling this wetland. This construction
is to be completed per city specifications and at the time of adjoining street construction.
Final alignment of this trail shall be staked by the developer and approved by the Park
and Recreation Director and City Engineer. In recognition for the dedication of this trail
corridor, and the construction of said trail, it is recommended that the applicant receive
full trail fee credit at the time of building permit application for both the Song property
and the JohnsonlDolejsirrurner applications. This trail shall include a connection to the
29
street plan as indicated between Lots 16 at
the near vicinity.
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Park and Recreation Commission .:Aupst 24,1993
3. Staff is directed to provide cooperation to the developer
trail connection from the street to the wetland.<;',"
4. If the city were to acqUire publicpropertyiD the proximity ofthisdeveJopment,1hat ,
Lundgren Broswould be cooperative in. doing the roup grading 0Il1bat site.
0" -, - . ,_ , . ' . -,.. ~/:.
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S. Direct staff that in the future itth~ IOUth~m Dolejsfpropel'tywould come forth or .my
of the other properties affecting this wetland. to earmark that IS a .CODIlecUon to this trail
around the wetland. ' ",0,',,;,,;,",'''-'''' ';C "",;,." "' , ""'.",,' "
,"c' . . , ~
6. The Park and Recreation Commission would recommend that any fees aisociated with
the redrawing of the plat for the JohnsonJDo1ejsi!rumer property for this trail easement
be waived.
All voted in favor, escept Commissioner Aadmvs who abscained, md die ..dOD anied.
MISSION HILLS. TANDEM PRQ,ER11ES.
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Public Present:
Name
Address
Jo Larson
Sharon Nickolay
Mike &:. Jo Ann Mulligan
Dick Putnam
Marge Shorba
AI Klingelhutz
IS90 Tigua Lane
8S00 Tigua
8501 Tigua Circle
2765 CIsco Pt. Rd.
Great Plains Blvd, Lake Susan
8600 Great Plains Blvd.
Hoffman: Chairman Schroers. Commission members. Item number 4 is the conceptual plan
development approval for low, medium and hip .clensity homes. 190 units on 62.0S acres...
neighborhood commercial use.....ain.this is a conceptual plan at this time. The location is
east of Highway 101 and north and south at the intersection of West 86th Street. The...kind
of a new area of the city for development proposals. As we travel iouth on Market Blvd,
leaving City Hall at this location across Highway S.Travel down the Dew segment of m
101 and right now you then attach the old segment at this portion. But..ain the upgrade... to
30
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
t:,b
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission ~/
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director /tf'
FROM:
DATE:
October 20, 1993
SUB]:
Highway 101 North Trail
Nearly two months have passed since a meetin tween five governing bodies with a stake in
the future of Highway 101 took place. On A 26, 1993, the City of Chanhassen hosted a
meeting between the following agencies: He p~.County, Carver County, MnDOT, the City
of Eden Prairie, and the City of Chanhassen. ice~hairperson Andrews was in attendance at
the meeting and potentially can share his vi~wPoint "th the commission. Some of the main
points I garnered from the meeting include;'
MnDOT confirmed that they hav 0 interest irlJ:"etaining authority over the highway.
Carver County agreed to be ~.... ead agency in the~ffort to establish a task force to study
the entire Highway 101 cqgidor in Carver County respect to the road only).
~'
The city would submit a copy of the feasibility repo
allowing them to form an opinion as to how much
accommodate .8 future .upgrade o(theroad (sc;e.
Folch d ugust 2,6,199~). ..;To4ate,:
ith supplemental data to MnDOT,
the trail would be destroyed to
ed memorandum from Charles
om MnDOT.
or upgrade the
Eden Prairie expressed little or no .
Their main area of concern would
Prairie.
in actively participating in the trail project.
e crossing points from Chanhassen to Eden
On Monday night, October 18, I presented the Park and Recreation Department's budget requests
to the City Council. In reviewing Fund 410, Park and Trailway Acquisition and Development,
I discussed the lack of funding for the Highway 101 trail. I proposed the following scenario:
Park and Recreation Commission
October 20, 1993
Page 2
If we are optimistic and establish a total project cost of $400,000, that cost could be split three
ways: $200,000 in direct assessments, $100,000 in general obligation funds, and $100,000 from
park and trail funds. Make your own assumptions as to the . likelihood of this scenario coming
true. These are mine.
Assessments of $200.000: If we divide $200,000 by a guess of 250 homes, the per home cost
is $800. Politically, the City Council took some bumps and bruises over a $760 assessment for
the construction of Minnewashta Parkway and a trail along the road. Would residents accept an
$800 assessment for a trail only?
,$100.000 from Park and Trailwav Acauisition and Develooment Fund: This allocation would
defInitely dent the bank account. It would also hinder the commission's ability ~ purchase new
parkland within the city for a period of time. At the current trail fee rate of $200 per home, 500
homes would need to be assessed a trail fee to recoup such an expenditure. Anticipated trail fee
revenues for 1993 are $40,000.
,$100.000 in General Oblie:ation Funds: I discussed such an allocation with members of the City
Council and city management during the budget meeting I referenced earlier. The general
response received was that $100,000 would be difficult to fInd in the current budget. The city's
levy limit for 1994 has been set at 6%--a level which will guarantee a zero percent increase in
1994 city taxes (unless of course the value of your home and property increases). This-leaves
very little elbow room in the budget, and thus, the members of the Oty Council present on
Monday night gave little hope to such an allocation. As much as I would like to tell the
commission that we are moving down the road towards construction of the trail in 1994 or even
1995, such is not the case.
If the commission has any suggestions or requests in this regard, please let me know.
Note: Staff will continue to investigate alternative methods of funding, i.e. ISTEA funds, and
will be taking a second look at a potential inner route between neighborhood street plans.
pc: Mayor and City Council
Don Ashworth, City Manager
Charles Folch, City Engineer
Paul Krauss, Planning Director
Jon Horn, BRW
Roger Gustafson, Carver County Engineer
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
Mr. Evan Green
Project Manager
Minnesota Department of Transportation
Waters Edge Building
1500 West County Road B2
Roseville, MN 55113
Re: TH 101 North Leg Trail Project No. 88-22B-6
Dear Evan:
This is a letter confirming the distribution to you of a feasibility study for the proposed
Trunk Highway 101 North Leg Trail Project in Chanhassen, Minnesota for your review and
input. Please review this study as a part of the overall permit acquisition process which the
City of Chanhassen will need to obtain from MnDOT to conitruct this proposed trail project
within the Trunk Highway 101 right-of-way. Once you have had a chance to review this
document, I would suggest that the project engineer from BRW, Todd Hoffman and myself
meet with you and other appropriate MnDOT personnel to go over this document and any
additional design and surveying information that has b~en generated to date. Thank you
for your time and effort in this project.
Sincerely,
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
Charles D. Folch, P.E.
City Engineer
CDF:ktm
c:
Jon Horn, BRW
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
City Council Administrative Packet (9/13/93)
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PROPOSED 1993 FUNCTION 410 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM
ADOPTED BY THE CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL ON DECEMBER 14, 1992
Bandimere Community Park
Wood Identification Sign
COMPLETED
$ 400.00
Bandimere Heie:hts Park
Swings
ORDERED 10/6/93
$ 1,500.00
Bluff Creek Park
Carver Beach Park
Grills (2)
Picnic Tables (2)
Swimming Buoys & Signage (Mini Beach)
GRILLS ON ORDER, OTHER EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN PURCHASED
$ 400.00
$ 1,300.00
$ 1,500.00
Carver Beach PlaV2found
Bleacher
ORDERED 10/6/93
$ 1,400.00
Chanhassen Estates Mini Park
Chanhassen Hills Park
Half Court Basketball $ 2,500.00
Trees 1,000.00
TREE LOCATIONS ARE STAKED, CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT PENDING
ON BASKETBALL COURT
Chanhassen Pond Park
Wood Park Identification Sign $ 250.00
Repair Observation Platform 2,000.00
ID SIGN WILL BE MADE THIS WINTER, PLATFORM DOES NOT MERIT
REPLACEMENT
City Center Park
Curry Farms Park
Trees $ 500.00
Swing Set $ 1,500.00
TREES ARE INCLUDED IN FALL PROGRAM, SWING SET ORDERED 10/6/93
Greenwood Shores Park
Grill
ORDERED 9121/93
$ 200.00
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Herman Field Park
Wood Park Identification Sign
UNDER CONSlRUCfION
$ 200.00
Lake Ann Park
First Aid Supplies
Lifeguard Room Equipment
Rescue Board
Freezer
Refrigerator
Microwave
MeRU Boar-as
Building Supplies & Equipment
Row Boats (2)
Canoes (3)
Paddle Boats (2)
Life Iackets (20)
Canoe Paddles (10)
Play ales (6)
Play ales Paddles (8)
OutboarEl Motor
Shelter LaBElseapiBg
BouBElary Buoys
Contingency
Trees
STRIKE OUT ITEMS WERE NEVER PURCHASED \COMPLETED
$ 400.00
$ 1,5oo~00
$ 500.00
$ 400.00
$ 500.00
$ 300.00
$ 300.00
$ 3,000.00
$ 1,300.00
$ 1,200.00
$ 1,600.00
$ 500.00
$ 200.00
$ 1,800.00
$ 200.00
$ 750".00
$ 1,500.00
$ 1,300.00'
$ 1,200.00
$ 1,000.00
e
Lake Susan Park
Ballfield Lights
PURSUING ACQUISITION wrm HRA
$ 65,000.00
Meadow Green Park
Bleacher
ORDERED 10/6/93
$ 1,400.00
Minnewashta Hei2hts Park
North Lotus Lake Park
Trees
STAKED FOR INSTALLATION
$ 1,000.00
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Pheasant Hill Park
Power Hill Park
General Improvements; Final Grading, Seeding, Entrance Road
and Parking . $ 15,000.00
FINAL GRADING IS UNDERWAY, SEEDING TO FOLLOW DEPENDENT ON
SOIL CONDmONS, ENTRANCE HAS BEEN COMPLETED
Prairie Knoll Park
Rice Marsh Lake Park
South Lotus Lake Park
Sunset Rid2e Park
Trees $ 1,000.00
Play Area Expansion $ 14,000.00
TREES WERE PLANTED IN FALL OF 1992, PLAY EQUIPMENT IS HERE
AWAITING INSTALLATION
Other Improvements
Scout Projects $ 1,000.00
NO PROJECTS IN 1993
Contin2encv $ 9,500.00
To include the addition of a bench(es) on Kerber Boulevard overlooking
Chanhassen Pond Park
BENCHES(PICNIC TABLES) WERE INSTALLED
Fund 410 Recuired Reserves
City Center Park (For the purpose of
matching School District 112
Funds invested in City Center Park!
Chanhassen Elementary School Playground)
NO ACTION
$ 8,000.00
TOTAL
$150,000.00
NOTE: All function 410 expenditures are subiect to sales tax. the effect of which will be
a loss in purchasiDl! capital of approximately $9.750 in 1993.
3
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
0cl
-
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM: Dawn Lemme, Program Specialist D:-a.. .
DATE: October 20, 1993
SUBJECT: Joint Youth Commission/Park and Recreation Commission
Some time ago, it was mentioned by the Park and Recreation Commission that they were
interested in finding out what types of activitie d program ideas the youth in this area (both
school districts) would like to see run by the assen Park and Recreation Department.
a One way of doing that, which was talked ab9ut, w~ to invite the youth commissions to come
. and talk with Park and Recreation Commis~~:mers at: a fall meeting. Currently, I have ~poken
with Jeanne Strauss of School District 112 ~. get her tfloughts on the matter. Ms. Strauss works
with the Youth Commission and thought it was a great idea. I will also be contacting
Minnetonka School District 276 to see if they have a smmar youth commission. .
If this discussion were to take place at the November Par d Recreation Commission meeting,
what would you like to see cove~~?
Would this take place prior to or during the meeting? ..
What types of questions do . you have specifically?
I will be lookin
up. Thank you.
and set this
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
~a..,
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
-$
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE:
October 19. 1993
SUBJ:
Land Development Status Reports
SONG PROPERTY, GALPIN BOULEVARD: The Planning Commission reviewed this
application on Wednesday, October 6, 1993. ~~~k and Recreation Commission's conditions
of approval were discussed that evening, being'ocll.tnented in the attached minutes. Please note
that Paul Krauss, Planning Director, pointed o1.lt to tit.. Planning Commission that, "Traditionally,
the Planning Commission does not placeithemsefYes in between the Park Board and the
developer." The Planning Commission, ho~ver, did~e comments in regard to park and trail
issues because of their potential affect qt! planning,'~at follows are my responses to the
comments made in regard to the Park an(!Recreation Ct?tnmission's conditions of approval, and
a subsequent recommendation to ameI!dthose conditio .
Parks:
1.
Existing Condition:'fhe private/association park ~ approved only if the additional
amenity of an opel'l field with a minimum size of 25QJeet x 250 feet with a maximum
4% slope is<addedtothepm'~~YQ~i~s~~fieldis to be in addition to, and not in
lieu of, ~~tiJl.gpr()p<>~~tMP,~r.i~g{~.~~)~~~:}B~~.~.~(association park is
ever abandon . t shall be transferred to the city for public park p .
Findings: The applicant h!Spr6'p()~)~ 1~~..f~~..~~.@.i_ teld, not a 250 ft x 250
ft. field as requested. This represents,;~ 4 " decrease in land area, a position which is
unacceptable. A compromised positioa preserving an open field of 180 ft. x 250 ft.
is suggested. This would decrease the of the field by 17,500 sq. ft, a 27% reduction
in lieu of the 48% requested by the applicant. The length is necessary to allow informal
football games, soccer games, etc. to be played. I would like to clarify that the city is
not looking to introduce large scale team activities to this site as represented to the
Planning Commission by the applicant's planner. I also differ with the position that since
a city park may be located to the south that a large open field is not necessary in the
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Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 2
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association park. These sites are over 113 mile apart and both will be surrounded by
residential units.
2. Existimz Condition: Full park fees shall be paid at the rate in fo~e upon building permit
application.
Findines: The commission has continually made it known that full park fees would be
required in the absence of the dedication of public parkland. The applicant has. touted
their willingness to do so as one of the reasons the commission should accept the
development of a private park.
Trails:
1.
Existine Condition: A 20 ft. trail easement shall be granted along the entire easterly
property line. Furthermore, this easement shall be included in the grading plan for the
project with a suitable trail-bed being prepared. This trail-bed may meander within the
easement alignment at the discretion of the applicant, but the eventual alignment must be
conducive to future trail construction and is subject to approval as a part of the grading
plan review. Planting of trees shall be restricted to the areas west of the trail-bed.
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Findines: This condition was forwarded to assure that adequate space be available for
the future construction of a trail along Galpin Boulevard. The city's engineering
department has determined during review of the application that this trail can be
constructed within the road right-of-way of Galpin Boulevard. However, it was originally
the position of Carver County that the trail should be located outside of the right-of-way.
They have since agreed to allow the trail within the right-of-way; however, one area of
concern occurs at road intersection points where additional land will be reserved for trail
purposes.
2.
Existine Condition: The applicant shall dedicate lands to accommodate trail construction
along the southern boundary of the Johnson/Dolejsi/fumer preliminary plat as depicted
on Attachment No.4. The applicant shall map and construct a trail parallelling this
wetland. This construction is to be completed per city specifications and at the time of
adjoining street construction. Final alignment of this trail shall be staked by the developer
and approved by the Park and Recreation Director and City Engineer. In recognition for
the dedication for this trail corridor and the construction of said trail, it is recommended
that the applicant receive full trail fee credit at the time of building permit application for
both the Song property and Johnson/Dolejsi/fumer applications. [Note: This condition
will require amendments to the conditions of approval associated with the preliminary plat
for the JOhnson/Dolejsi/fumer properties. Fees associated with the amendment of the
PUD for the Johnson/Dolejsi/fumer properties are to be waived.
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Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 3
This trail shall include a connection to the street plan as indicated between Lots 16 and
17, Block 2, or at a similar suitable location in the near vicinity. Additionally, the
applicant agreed to rough grade the Stockdale park site if it was acquired.
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Findings: Facing the possibility that the Park and Recreation Commission would deny
this application, the applicant offered to provide this trail easement and to construct the
subject trail. Staff recognized that this offer went above and beyond normal requirements;
however, at the time, the applicant was attempting to sweeten the pot in order to gain the
Park and Recreation Commission's approval. The applicant did contact the city after
making the initial offer, rescinding their offer to construct the trail citing economic
hardship. Staff confIrmed the position of the Park and Recreation Commission during
that conversation and recognizes that high expectations are being maintained. In lieu of
dropping the construction, a discussion in regard to phasing the construction of the trail
was entertained resulting in the agreement that phasing would be the preferred in lieu of
building the trail all at once. Mr. Terry Forbord, Lundgren Brothers, confIrmed the
content of this phone conversation at the August 24, 1993, Park and Recreation
Commission meeting stating, "I talked to Parks Director Hoffman about the construction
of the proposed public trail and he didn't have a problem with this proposal. I think his
staff report already says that but we would like to build that public trail as, the
development will be phased. We'll be doing one phase and we'd like to build that public
trail along that phase and then when we do the next phase, build that segment of the
public trail and then as you go, because that's how you're going to be doing the grading.
You kind of build it as you go and I think that's what, I'm not sure but I think...talking
today." However, he then stated at the October 6, 1993, Planning Commission meeting
that, "The problem with it is, is that not only do they want me to give them land. They
want me to build it for them and they want me to grade the park down at Stockdale's and
all these other things. We can't afford to do that and do all the other things we're trying
to do here." In regard to the trail connection between Lots 16 and 17, Block 2, or at a
similar suitable location in the near vicinity, that condition remains valid. Full trail fee.
credit for both the Johnson/Dolejsi/l'urner and Song properties is being offered in
consideration for this condition. The applicant's planner, in a phone conversation on
October 19, 1993, now states that if a trail is to be built, they are expecting full
compensation for the construction. Furthermore, that if the applicant grades a city park
they want to be compensated.
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As you will recall, these conditions are contingent upon the city acquiring the Stockdale
property for public park purposes within 45 days after August 24. The 45 days have
passed and we are closing in on a potential purchase agreement. Staff was uncomfortable
with this condition as it was being proposed; however, as a matter of record,' the applicant
consented to it on the evening of August 24, 1993 (see attached minutes). I am therefore
disappointed with the applicant's planner's statement that, "The Park Commission had
wanted to make that acquisition a contingency on the approval of the Song parcel which
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Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 4
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is, it's out of our control and it didn't make sense to us since we are doing so much
anyway that just making it contingent, wasn't something that we felt was appropriate and
was not an issue that we could control, is the problem."
Staff is frustrated by the applicant's treatment of park and trail issues, which at times
mimics a "bait and switch" tactic of advertising, promoting an offer to get you in the door
and then not following through with the offer.
RECOMMENDA nON
Parks
1. Change the dimension of the open play field from 250 ft. x 250 ft. to 180 ft. x 250 ft.
2. No change.
Trails
1.
Change the condition to: It is intended that the Galpin trail be constructed in the street
right-of-way except within 200 feet of street intersections. In these areas, a trail easement
up to 20 ft. in width is required.
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2. No change.
O'SHAUGHNESSY PROPERTY. GALPIN BOULEVARD: As the commission will recall,
a portion of this property had been considered for an active park, but was dismissed due to soil
conditions. The applicant has recently asked for direction from staff as to what the commission's
reaction would be if they moved forward with the soil corrections and the construction of housing
units on this site. In essence, as stated by the applicant, plopping buildings right into the middle
of the city's passive park. Any comments you have in this regard will be forwarded to Centex
Homes. This item is being reviewed at the conceptual stage by the Planning Commission on
Wednesday, October 20, 1993. If the application moves forward, the Park and Recreation
Commission would review it again at the preliminary plat level.
OPUS SITE/GATEWAY. IDGHWAYS 5 AND 41: Two additional park concepts have been
prepared by Hoisington-Koegler Group, and they are attached for your review. At the
commission's request, calculations have been made to determine the amount of land which would
be consumed as park under the various scenarios being considered. As shown on the attached
exhibit, the area of high ground varies from a low of 18.8 acres as proposed by the developer,
to a high of 30 acres under Concept 2. The applicant's initial site plan identified a total of 178.3
acres. Therefore, approximately 17 acres (closely matching the applicant's original proposal) .-
could be acquired through dedication. Any land above and beyond this would have to be ..,
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Park and Recreation Commission
October 19, 1993
Page 5
purchased. Assumably, this purchase would be orchestrated in the makings of a tax increment
fmancing plan. Demands on TIP proceeds are high, however, and the city management would
like to confIrm if this active park site is an absolute necessity in this location. IT it is not, could
it be moved north of Highway 5 or to some other location in the city? I await the commission's
direction in this regard.
pc: Mayor and City Council
Don Ashworth, City Manager
Paul Krauss, Planning Director
John Uban, DSU
Terry Forbord, Lundgren Brothers Construction
Dan Blake, Centex Homes
Michelle Foster, Opus
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
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from a practical standpoint The idea is to, the problem here, the way we look at it wasn't
that the houses were the problem. The road was the problem and we were trying to buffer
the people who live there from the noise of the road and the view of the road and the cars
going by and so we were trying to create that type of buffer,while at the same time when
you're driving down the road, the houses aren't just leaping off the site at you. But I think
you might be able to see a rooftop and things like that and I just didn't want to say that we'll
be able to do that when I inherently didn't think it would achieve it That's the only reason
we modified that
Krauss: Well I mean again, I don't think we're far aparL..never been to avoid looking at
homes...make sure that the homes have a legitimate rear yard area and to view from the
highway it helps the roadway somewhat soften but the primary issue is protecting the
residential neighborhood. We've got so many situations elsewhere in town that that was done
inadequately and again, I don't think we're talking about different things here.
Conrad: Yeah, I think we're pretty close. Let's move on.
John Uban: Okay, yes. c and d, there's absolutely no problem with. e is the issue of how
much we can expand the actual tree conservation area which is an easement that's recorded a
on the property versus the adjustments we made during construction with flexibility to make _
sure that works out. In talking with Paul, I think we're close. I think it's just Ii matter of
some adjustments to the plans that we have submitted and really clarifying with staff how
much flexibility we need to have and how much of a guarantee or an easement is appropriate
for this development I think we're close and we just merely have to sit down and work it
out before we appear before the Gty Council.
Krauss: That's probably a fair statement
10hn Uban: The next item that we talked about parks. I had under lO(a), I had shown you
that we had put in a 180 x 180 size playfield which is designed for the level of play that
we're looking for and not the 250, the 250 foot play area that is suitable for large scale team
activities that the Park Commission was looking for. Since they're putting a park to the
south, it really isn't necessary in our neighborhood association.
Krauss: If I can interject. I understand some of their concerns with some of the Park issues.
Some I agree with. Some I don't but the fact is, traditionally the Planning Commission does
not place themselves inbetween the Park Board and a developer. These are concerns that I
think the Park Board has seen it These were their issues. This was their recommendation. I
think the developer can make that pitch relative to these conditions to the Gty Council. It
just traditionally hasn't been something that you've tinkered with.
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
Farmakes: How do you feel about the issue of right of first refusal for the property? Does
that mean that it could be sold for a price determined at market at a later date?
Krauss: I think the condition that was written by the Park Board was somewhat different in
approach. It said that if the homeowners association fails to operate the park or maintain the
park, whatever. Wants to walk away from the park, that it becomes a city owned facility.
That's different than getting fIrSt dibs on buying it. But again, I wasn't at the Park Board.
That was their recommendation. I'd ask you not to tinker with that.
Farmakes: I'm perfectly agreeable with that but I do have a question in regards to that. How
does the taxation work for that type of operation?
Krauss: It's taxed property. I suppose it's taxed at a lower rate.
Farmakes: So the homeowners association then pays that tax?
Krauss: You bet. And I guess we're somewhat comfortable with it in this case Jeff. There
are a lot of commonly held facilities and chunks of land in this one that don't, and the park,
that the homeowners association has a valid purpose and would tend to exist for...
Mancino: Paul, I just have one other question with that too. I don't want to tinker with the
Park Board's recommendation but what was the rationale behind having them put in a 250
square foot field?
Krauss: I honestly don't know. I mean I can guess.
Mancino: A rink? An ice rink?
Krauss: Well there was an presumption here that okay, the Park Board agreed that they
would build a neighborhood park on the next property to the south pending their ability to
obtain title to buy the property. But I think they also wanted to make sure, this is
significantly sized development. That it was providing a legitimate variety of internal
recreational amenities. That's my guess.
Terry Forbord: Paul, this just makes for expediency. Is it the position then that the Planning
Commission will not be dealing with any of the park issues as it relates to the items that we
have concerns about?
Krauss: That's traditionally been the case unless there are some land use aspects or site
design aspects of the park issue. The Planning Commission and Park Board are equally
39
Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, ~993
created by the City Council with their respective spheres of influence and we haven't tried to
modify them. .
Conrad: Terry, I don't mind hearing the issues. I don't know that we're going to react to
them here. If I think they affect the planning. I don't know that we're going to react to 250
versus 180 unless it affects the overall plan of the site. So it's good for us to hear them but
again I don't know that we're going to react to them in one way or another at this time unless
it does, there's some contingencies to something that we really have some influence on.
Terry Forbord: Okay. Well then let me just take over for a minute here because I think it's
important for me to state that of all the issues, there's a number of key issues that are here
tonight. We're going through some minor adjustments here and fine tuning with you but
there are a couple key issues that will decide whether this property is acquired by us and
whether it is developed and the park and trail issues are certainly probably at the top of the
list. The association park that we have presented in the IohnsonIDolejsiJTurner neighborhood
connected to the immediate west of this subject property and the same association park on the
Song property, are new elements of design that we are now incorporating into all of our
neighborhood communities of any significance. And by significance I mean something that is
of enough size that it warrants this type of amenity. I'd like to tell you that we are the ones
that invented this, but we are not. We've traveled the country and we have found that in
neighborhoods with these types of amenities, the people find them to be incredibly desirous
for, not only for their use but for what they do to protect and enhance the property values and
the investments that people are making in probably the largest investment they make. So
over the last 4 years, on every significant neighborhood community that we've developed, we
have included as association park like this. And they have been incredible. Well, excuse me.
Well accepted by the buyers. Now this is kind of a new thing for the midwest. You can go
all over the United States and find these everywhere but in the midwest it's somewhat
different. And we've had to really, really spend a lot of time before planning boards and city
councils and park commissions trying to hopefully educate them to the benefits, not only to
the people who own the association but to the general benefits of the city because we're
providing the land. We're building the improvements. We're maintaining it and that takes a
burden off some of the facilities in the rest of the community. So for us we find that it is
very, very important. Now, for the parks commission, their charge is to also make sure that
the general public is being taken care of with facilities to provide recreational facilities for the
general public which is their charge and it's a good charge and those things do need to be
addressed. So obviously they look at this very closely and they scrutinize it And in their
attempts to review this, and pass it onto you, they have exacted from us items economically
to the point that where it's going to kill our ability to proceed with this project if in fact it
ultimately is approved that way. We're spending a lot of money, if you can imagine, just
putting in the facilities that we are. Now they have asked us to come back to them with
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
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some new ideas and we carrie back to them with the proposed trail corridor that John briefly
described to you earlier. And that trail corridor, there was something I was trying to figure
out what additional incentive can I make to the city so they will accept the association park
concept What additionally could I provide that would be public oriented and it just hit me
that this wetland complex here and I brought it back to staff. We would provide an
easement, the land that would enable the beginnings of a public trail system around this
natural area, would that be something of interest to the parks commission. Well of course it
was and it was a good idea and they embraced it The problem with it is, is that not only do
they want me to give them land. They want me to build it for them and they want me to
grade the park down at Stockdale's and all these other things. We can't afford to do that and
do all the other things we're trying to do here. So this issue has become a very large issue
and the only way that I can make it work is if park fees and trail fees are waiv~ to the
equivalent amount of the cost of the construction of these facilities that are of public benefit
And so I'm just sharing this with you tonight because it more than likely is a deal breaker for
our ability to make this, purely from an economic standpoint I would like to be able to say
to the city, I'd be happy to do all these things but I'm not Santa aaus and I can only do
what makes sense from an economic standpoint And at the same time still be able to
provide a very high quality community. And so you may not want to be dealing with these
items tonight because we've made some changes in the recommendations in how those park
and trail dedication fees are to be allocated so I'll be happy, we can go through these. Each
one of them if you'd like us to but if you're of the position of historically of the parks .
commission not to deal with those things, then we can move on to other items. It would be
up to the Planning Commission.
Conrad: Well, do we want to hear them briefly or do we want to just skip them?
Mancino: I'd like to hear them briefly.
Conrad: Okay, let's touch them but.
Terry Forbord: A couple that are key, such as Galpin Blvd so why don't you go ahead.
Conrad: Yeah, let's keep on going.
John Uban: I think on item number (b) here, Terry talked about that already quite a bit
That we need to have the fees equal the construction that's being requested in addition to
what we are dedicating and building as an association facility. The trails, under trails. The
trail, we're suggesting it be incotporated is a 100 foot boulevard from Galpin and here's a
section that generally shows that and what this indicates is that within 100 feet we can get the
52 foot wide road, 10 foot boulevard on either side. There can be a trail on this side also.
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
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Put a 10 foot trail in and we have additional land here yet on the edge of the right-of-way.
This is a very comfortable cross section that handles lots of traffic. Trails are good to have, I
believe, in the corridor or the right-of-way. It's safer. There will be light poles here.
They'll be illuminated. They'll be more watched because safety is a concern. If they kind of
wander off and away from the road, there are some safety issues that are a concern.
Additionally, when we build our berm to keep our 30 to 40 foot back yard here, we'd like to
build it and then just taper it right into the edge of the right-of-way and usually we do that in
other communities and I know that the city is looking at similar berming effects on roads
along Highway 5. The frontage road and so forth. But this helps us to maximize our
berming if we can taper it into the edge right there on just a couple feet. But this is a very
good trail system many cities are using. This same design between 80 and 100 feet of right-
of-way, depending on the road size.
Terry Forbord: Now this exhibit represents what's proposed by Lundgren Bros and we're
showing you to demonstrate that clearly the proposed right-of-way would be able to, is
capable of including the road improvements and the proposed trail. 10hn maybe you have an
exhibit that may show what is being proposed by staff.
10hn Uban: This is park staff.
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Terry Forbord: Parks commission, that's correct.
10hn Uban: This shows the 100 foot Galpin Boulevard right-of-way. And here we'll have.
over 24 feet between the road and the edge of the right-of-way and then they're asking for a
20 foot trail easement added to that which combined would certainly be 140 feet of right-of-
way or easement combination which then we have the trail set farther back. Was closed to.
traffic and then when we try to put our berm in and keep our back yard, we have much less
room in which to do that because the trail doesn't want plantings involved to separate it from
the road and so forth and keep it graded to match.
Ledvina: Would that roadway be constructed with a curb and gutter']
10hn Uban: Yes.
Ledvina: So there wouldn't be any need for ditches, okay.
10hn Uban: This seemed to be sort of wasting land here that it's more maintenance in the
long run. It's less consolidated. I believe it becomes less safe and when you look at the rest
of Galpin Blvd, especially to the north, and you realize you want to grade out this far, there
are some significant wetlands to the north that are impacted that make the two that are on this
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property fairly minute by comparison. So I believe the consolidation of road and trail, is a
good practice. Other cities are doing it To minimize wetland filling and other activity like
that
Terry Forbord: Now we recognize that in the past the city has used these principles but what
we're suggesting is that just because it's been done before in the past, doesn't mean maybe it
was the best idea. Because this particular type of cross section on this proposal of 140 feet
combination of right-of-way and easement is a huge swath of land that goes along any route
and it will involve the filling of more wetlands. Eventually the cutting down of more trees in
those areas where it's going through that are wooded, and we feel that you can readily
accommodate all the same functions within the proposed right-of-way without any additional
easements.
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Hempel: Mr. Chairman, let me just interject something here. The typical section proposed
there is fairly accurate. There is sufficient room to build a trail section within the 100 foot
right-of-way. The problem comes when you come to an intersection where there's additional
turn lanes. Turn lane medians that expands that paved section out even wider. That does
restrict where the trail goes. In some cases the trail may be right up to the back of the curb.
We understand the intersections like that, maybe it's not that bad...and so forth. Similar
subdivisions that we've recently done along Galpin Blvd, we have incorporated the trail
section into the 100 foot right-of-way. Carver County Public Works Department had sent us
a memo regarding this; Their recommendation though is if we want a trail section, for it to
be outside the 100 foot right-of-way. We are currently working with Carver County Public
Works Department to change their minds on that since most likely it will be a joint
cooperative project to upgrade this county road in the future. So our concerns I guess would
be the trail...intersection would seem possible, an additional turn lanes and medians at the
intersection.
Mancino: What jurisdiction does the Carver County public works have on it'!
Hempel: It's currently under their jmisdiction...out in their right-of-way. Eventually it may
be turned back over to the city as a city street
Terry Forbord: Dave, would it make sense. Just make sure I understand your concern at the
intersection. If there's a turn lane right here is what you're saying. Is that that trail should
be able to meander in. I don't think that would be a problem for us to accommodate that
around turn lanes and things. I think that makes sense. The only thing we're saying is to
make that, to add that huge swath through the entire length, one it's overkill. Two, it is
going to impact wetlands and it's certainly going to impact the quiet enjoyment of these
people. That berm now will be right off their deck. That berm will come right up to the
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 6, 1993
deck of these homes under the proposal and nobody will have any back yard space along
here. I think there's a way to get around that
Conrad: Interesting issue. I think City Council will deal with that one. We'll all have our
own opinions but it is interesting because that is a major, well I'm going to abbreviate my
comment The trail there is very important and I can see why Park and Rec wanted it and I
can also see why you don't and it's better. I can see both sides of the issue and I think we
don't need to get involved. We'll let
Terry Forbord: lust to clear that, we do want the trail.
Conrad: Right. Right
Iohn Uban: Then we continue I guess basically on with that trail issue. That once again
we're asking that the fee and park fees for trails make up the difference for any, the
construction that the Park Commission may request On the trail that goes along the south
edge of the Iohnson/Dolejsi property, this major walk along the wetland that we've just talked
about. The city is asking for a connection up into that subdivision, which we think is a good
idea but we're having a hard time finding an appropriate place and we wanted to make sure
that that could happen without wasting a lot that we've already gotten approved. so we're
suggesting in our narrative and tQ work with the city and we think that there is an easement,
utility easement that can be used that would also be used for the city to gain access to the
sedimentation ponds that are also being built in that area. So I think if we can work
creatively with the city to combine utility easements and access for sedimentation pond and a
possible trail connection that might not be suitable for bicycles but, you know it would be
probably steep but can be walked. That that would work out very well and we'll continue in
that direction. The other, on Stockdale to the south. The Park Commission had wanted to
make that acquisition a contingency on the approval of the Song parcel which is, it's out of
our control and it didn't make sense to us because we're doing so much anyway that just
making it contingent didn't, wasn't something that we felt was appropriate and was not an
issue that we could control, is the problem. And we will work with the city. We'll work
with Stockdales to make sure that something reasonable can take place but we are dedicating
an additional trail on the nature walk. We are building our own parks plus, if no construction
is involved, still paying all the park and trail fees for both developments and only asking for
credit should they ask... That sort of summarizes I think the issues with park and trail. If there
are any other comments. I'll move onto number 11. Really it's just a clarification. We have
really no issue with number 11. Number 12. We want the street section that we have
proposed in the subdivision and the right-of-way dimensions that we've proposed, to continue
and these are on two very specific areas. Number one, we have all the roads, the thru streets
are all 60 feet in width, the right-of-way and standard 31 feet or even, I think larger on A
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CIIANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREA TION COMMISSION
REGUlAR MEETING
AUGUST 24, 1993
Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Fred Berg, Jim Manders, Ron Roeser, Jim Andrews, Larry Schroers,
Jane Meger, and Jan Lash
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Program Specialist
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Lash: I just have a couple things that I found. On page 20. My comments at the bottom. I
think I said the first lines and after that point in time, I think it was the applicant speaking
because it sounds like something the applicant would talk about that night. Not something I
was saying. And I think it starts right about with the well. And then another one on page
48. My comments in the first paragraph down. I probably said I've always but what I meant
was, I've never. I've never been a proponent of that. And then I'm a cheapskate. Not a
cheapscape. I don't know what the difference is but I know I'm a cheapskate. I don't know
what the other one is. That's it for me.
Schroers: Anything else? If not, may I have a motion to approve?
Andrews moved, Meeer seconded to approve die Minutes of die PaIk and Recreation
Commission meeting dated .lily 27, 1993 as amended by .Ian Lash. All voted in favor and
die motion canied.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
SONG PROPERlY. LUNDGREN BR011lERS CONSTRUCTION.
Public Present:
Name
Terry Forbord, Lundgren Bros
Jay Dolejsi
Bret Davidson
David Stockdale
Address
935 East Wayzata Blvd, Wayzata
6961 Chaparral Lane
7291 Galpin Blvd.
7210 Galpin Blvd.
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Hoffman: The Commission should be &wire the t.ppnWI1or the Minutes only covers the July
27th. The August 1 Otb..."'De Sonl propertyproposal,ls1he tommiS$ioners are ~ was
Teviewed on July 27th. The discussion that eveningindliding the tabling of this issue.
Expectations from the Commission in doing SO were two fold.lbat the Ipplicant,desired
more time to review internally ad progress with Staff ideas toeah8llce the park and
recreation components of this Ipplication. ,Secondly,that the Commission desired additional
information in regard to land holdinp.south oCthe SoDI's...Dolejsi-Tumer property.\J had the
oppommity to meet with Mr. Terry Forbord to ctiscuss the Dew idea which he referenced at
the committee meeting. The Ipplicant's preliminary offer was to ideatify . trIiI easement
along the southern border of the Jolmson-Dolejsi-Tumer ProPertY which abuts the Song , ,.
property and toconstruct1hat trait "You haveacliqramin. your packet...in this reprd.1be
Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer proposal_d the Sona proposal areldjacent to.one maother.1bey're
both...and are owned, or would be owned by LundJfen .Bro$ Construction>,The area of the
trail would start about in this location at Hipway41ad\llrind it's way down. totiae lOuthem
half of the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumerproperty. ,So JOuwJOt the plat which you 1pPIOwc1. or
passed your recommendations onto the Council sometime last year and the Song property in
this location. This is . large \\IOOded. wetIlDd area which you have I believe an aerial photo
of...l'm not a wetlands expert but it's 'eertainIy primarily what they refer to IS canary reed
grass and we'l h.ve some pictures of that, those slides...).fr. Forbordad I toured this area.
on foot the morning of August 9th. A Monc:lay momina. . Very wet JDOmina. We..~
desirable for . recreational trail and would offer .ID experience which is DOt attainable
the trails along street alignment such as the on street alignment which woUld run parlllel with
the thru street which will access TH 41 ~d Galpin.... 1bis proposed corridor parallels . large
wetland. We talked .bout the homes that would be constructed in the area.1be trail in most
cases would be loc.ted .t the edge of the wetland. sandwiched between the wetland and the
home's backyards. The alignment of most area followed the toe of the wooded slope which
acts as a natural buffer. One area in particular does not allow that and you'll see a slide of it
approximately right in this location which is an open alfalfa field which then dead ends...off
into the wetland. Several sets of photographs were taken. We'Ulook at those here
momentarily. I also prepared the blue line copy of the aerial photo. I apologize...but you can
certainly get the idea without h.ving lDyadditional feet on there. Upon concluding our site
visit that day it was agreed that the applicant would map this potential trail alignment, which
is down here....ttached in the packet. Providing copies of that map for the commission to
review. A follow-up conversation on August 17th with Mr. Forbord and during that
conversation Terry informed me that they had determined that it was Dot feasible for them to
construct a trail at their expense. At least probably without receiving some IOrtof
compensation from the city for th.t...The second issue which I would like to touch on is the
issue of the land holdings in the area..let an idea of what this wetland loob like. You drive
by it, I drive by it every day, a couple times .. day. J certainly knew it was there but I didn't
know to what extent this area was, the extent of the area which it covers so I think it will
give you . real good idea of what the area actually loob like.
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Schroers: A couple quick questions Todd. What is the length of the trail and is the trail of
any significance regarding the overall master trail pllD of the city?
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
Hoffman: As proposed the length of the trail is about 2/3 of a mile in the Lundgren
development. It would then continue and probably conclude at Galpin and be much closer to
a mile in length from m 41 to Galpin. In regard to the overall comprehensive trail plan, it's
not an identified segment but it certainly is a very desirable segment. The comprehensive
trail plan typically identifies trails which are traveled, or not solely for recreation but you
know line up with major corridors and major neighborhood corridors and that type of thing.
So I think it is a desirable link, even though it's not identified on the comp plan. If you can
follow through in your head as I walk through these. I don't have the luxury of pushing back
and forth between the overhead and the slides. This is a photo just east of Highway 41.
About at the location where the trail would begin on TH 41 right up in this comer. Right up
here and as you travel across the slide to the left, that tree line there would be the separation
point to the wetland so that's one reason you really don't see it. This is the view when you
cross over that tree line. The view which greets you there. Part of the wetland. As you can
see, it's not a cattail type marsh. It's not wooded. It was wet there obviously this year
because of the weather we've been experiencing but I would think in drought years it was
probably completely dry, except for maybe in a small creek which winds through the center
of it. The wooded property you see there in the background would be the southern half of
the Dolejsi property, which is severed from the northern half. So it makes it real impossible
to develop those as a consecutive piece of property. That's where I pan to the left, as I'm
standing there and it shows the wooded edge of the property to the north which would be the
start of the houses that would come down to the edge of the wetland there. The" trail would
meander inbetween the houses and the wetland.
Lash: So are you proposing the trail construction to be along the wood line? The tree line.
Hoffman: Right along the wood line, correct. It could not be constructed out in the wetland
itself. It certainly has to be up on suitable ground.
Schroers: Is that tree line going to be altered by the construction?
Hoffman: Assuredly yes. To what extent I would have to have the applicant to address that
question. These begin to get out of order. This would take you all the way to the opposite
end of the trail to the terminus. As it comes out at the very left hand comer of the slide
would be Swings golf course. And the trees that you see to the right would be the edge of a
cul-de-sac, if you can look on your packet, that knoll which is very heavily wooded... That
knoll however does have a, it's kind of a funny little area. It has an opening actually which
fits very nicely for a street which is the fortunate thing from tree loss. This would be if you
round the comer and look back towards Galpin Blvd. So as you walk around the comer from
the other side and then face, this is facing east. Due east right down towards City Hall. This
would be probably very close to the alignment of the trail as it came around the toe of the
3
Park and Recreation Commission - Aupst 24, 1993
slope. And then penetrated to the east to match up with, along with future developments
somewhere out to Galpin Blvd and then eventually clown to the trail underpass which goes
under Highway 5. This slides looks directly DOrth toWlrds the Semg property. From about
that same comer. If you CID picture. you're probablyltlnding on the trail here I-.'''gto my
right towards Galpin. Heading to my left toWlrds m 41 _d then you're lookinl DOrth and
towards the Song property. This app(OXimately cIeIiDeates the separation between 1he Song
property on the right IIld the Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner on the left. Another photo of the
alignment as it comes along the toe. of the slope apin in that aenera) vicinity. 1'.his is aD lI'ea
which I mentioned earlier where the field. theqric:uJturIl field actually comes riabt down to
the edge of the wetland. These would be...standing either at the rear housepad or IOmewhere
in the rear yard and then lookins out over the wetland in this area. So the trail would nul
approximately right in line with that wetland edge. That's coming up much hiper on the hill.
The last slide was down way to your riaht.This is ItIndinl up on the hill somewhere
potentially where the street would be or maybe a. front ylI'd looking back over the vista of
that wetland area. And again the trail, if there was a proposed trail, would be down iD the
foreground...There's another shot of that same vicinity. Alain. down lower. The wooded
knoll that you see there, that's the knoll that the other series of slides centered around on the
opposite side of it. This trail would then come along vegetation edge. Follow the toe of that
wooded slope around and head on over tOwards Swings golf course or Galpin Blvd or
potentially to the north at that time, depending on what alignment was eventually chosen IIld
that wooded knoll there would contain houses iD a cuI-cle-sac...One lI'ea of p~cular concern
to the commission was the issue, of this private park concept was approved, what potential
exists for the city to acquire public parkland in the area immediately sOuth of the Song,
Iohnson-Dolejsi-Tumer property. So I put together a map which I thiDk approximately
indicates the existing land holdings in that area. Again, 3 weeks was not sufficient time to
bring you a complete evaluation of what's available. What potentially would not be available
and all the other questions you would have iD regard to the lad purchase. But I did have the
opportunity to discuss the topic with some of the IlIldowners in the area. ...realtor IIld Mr.
Forbord who represents Lundgren Bros Construction in their IlIld acquisition inquiries
throughout Chanhassen. I do understand as a aaent of the city I CID only take these
inquiries to such a degree. Make the recommendations to the Park Commission and then
ultimately approval by City Council.. However, I believe it is fair to state that there are DO
properties in this area which have been actively marketed. That statement made, I may alter
that statement to some degree tonight as we talk about the Stoc:kdlJe property in more det8i1
later on. Again, I mentioned that there appears to be one owner who is considerina
subdivision of their property IIld that being Mr. David Stockdale. I believe it is also lCCurate
to state that the remainder of the lmdowners have either been contacted by perspective buyers
or considered selling their property at IOme time and...some property owners that are just
happy with what they have going on and probably would not consider tellinl at lilY time in
the future. So aaain the Stockdale property is about 19 acres.. You have III additional
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
handout with you this evening which I will reference and that looks something like this. So
this is the 19 acres Stockdale piece of property. The Song's...to the north. Their house lies
somewhere up in this comer of this potential road which would come down through here.
The Stockdale's currently reside in this location. It would be at least a consideration of the
Stockdale's to sell the city this section of land in this area for a potential future neighborhood
park. That's approximately S acres in size, or potentially a little less. The Park Commission
would have to decide what they feel would be an appropriate total acreage for that park site,
if you would care to pursue it. Mr. Stockdale is in conversation with Lundgren Bros on the
potential acquisition of that remaining property with development of that property coming
down through this road extension and probably meet in a cul-de-sac somewhere in that
location. So this is certainly something the commission can consider. It's not the only piece
of property in the area which could be acquired for park. As we go further on in the
discussion about the land holdings in the area, you'lI see that. However, I believe the
Stockdale's are in a position to at least come to the bargaining table at present and see if
something could not be worked out. So if that's your desire, I will take direction in that
regard. Moving further south with some of the other properties. It would be my belief that
the Bentz and Turcott properties would not be available for acquisition by the city. Each one
of these S acre parcels have a residence constructed on them somewhere centrally located on
that lot. The southern property has some wetland impacts on the rear of the property and
then in addition, the Highway S frontage road, or access boulevard, will come and probably
make this southern comer to some degree in that location. Y ou're all familiar with Swings
Golf and then you move across Galpin to the southeast comer of Highway S and Galpin and
there's a piece of property, the VanDeVeire property. These two locations would not be
desirable for any park obviously because of their location. Coming around the bottom side
and you have a SO acre parcel owned by Mr. Conway. Mr. Conway has been in conversation
with Mike Gorra and a potential joint development of those two properties so there at least
has been conversation. These represent some substantial land holdings in the area which will
probably see some development of some type in the future. To the north you have Windmill
Run and Royal Oaks, which the commission is aware. Are currently being developed for
single family homes. Then north of that you have the Prince Nelson property which is hard to
venture a guess as to what the future of that property is but it certainly may see some
development at some point in the future. The other one to consider would be potentially the
other half of the other segment of the Dolejsi property, which is separated from the northeast
by that wetland that comes in through here. There are some additional issues which the
commission needs to discuss this evening. Those centering around city sponsored recreation
programs. These potential subdivisions create 234 lots between them. A portion of the Park
and Recreation Department sponsored programs currently take place directly in neighborhood
parks. Those being such programs as Summer Discovery Playground and tennis lessons.
What would the city's commission, Park and Recreation Commission's policy be i.f you were
approached by the neighborhood to provide public recreation services within those private or
S
Park and Recreation Commission -August 24,1993
association park? I think .at's something we should discuss her~this evening. And then
ultimately your decision, whatever it is, _uld have IOme impacts on future commissions in
that regard. Second issUe is the trail. easementllong Galpin Blvd. The epplicant's letter of
August 18th references 17 feet of riaht-ot-way lIong Galpin Blvd ad d1e aradinl for a trail
alignment within that 17 feet. 'This position is in direct cont1ict with ltaff's recommendation
that a 20 foot easement for trail purposes be dedicated Idjacent 10 d1e DeW ript-of-way. 1hat
recommendation is consistent with the action by d1e Commission IDd the Councilllldle way
up and down Galpin Blvd, starting on thelOuthernreacbes across BijhwayS with Stone
Creek, the Hans Hagen development where the riaht-of-way was taken aeldlen ... additional
20 feet of trail easement ad .ow d1ey're constructing that trail within that easement. Moving
north to the Windmill R.un ad d1e Klingelhutz development ad then Bret Davidson ad his
development there. So that has been a ~stent recommendation ad consistent action by
the Council. The applicant will be presenting his diagrams this evening showing potentially
how the trail construction could take place within a ript-of-way. I will respond to dlat
presentation at that time. I did have a chance to have I co.nversation with the City Engineer
and the Assistant City Engineer in that regard today so I'll have IOme additionll information
for the...at that time. The depiction of passive play areas on the attachment 10 the letter elated
August 18th. As the commission will recall, one concern aut the potentill association or
private park in the Song property was that at some point in the future it could revert back 10
the city ownership and city operation of maintenance. And one thing d1e commission ad d1e
city typically want to see in those neighborhood parks is a open playfield 10 it-was a
direction to the applicant to identify that. An attempt was made to do 10 on this diagram
which identifies two areas that's'shaded and labeled then as passive recreation. I would agree
that they probably could be used for passive recreation but they have steep slopes in d10se
areas and they're very small, or relatively small so a same of pick-up bueball or something
of that nature woUld not be appropriate there. The minimum size of 250 x 250 would reach
the. just by having the thought process. So neighborhood children can pick up I lame of
baseball or softball, how much distance would you II10w between home plate ad the first
window of some prage or the house adjoinina the park. And 250 feet is about the minimum
amount you could safely. I think you could reduce that down 10 somewhat...over 200 feet.
Conclusions that were made. I think the applicant has attempted 10 satisfy the elesires of die
commission in regards to park and trail amenities but is falling Ilipdy short of the city's
mark. Specifically in regard 10 the private park amenities ad the whole issue of die private
park but again that is something that the commission has to wrestle wi1has well. I've talked
about the open playfield area and the failure 10 identify one of those. The question of
whether or not land in the area are available for development IS public park space remains
unanswered. I think...new information today. 1bat information was ptherect ad agreed to
about 3:4S p.m. meetina1his afternoon 10 you can see it's...has not been developed. But it is
certainly a possibility. There's always future events which kind of cartwheel upon ODe
another as to what is loing to occur with the land holdinp in the vicinity. However. it can
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
certainly always be said that if it's your wish to acquire some parkland, you can probably
make that happen but again that statement is also applicable to the subj~ct property. In regard
to the 20 foot trail easement, as I mentioned, we will talk about that more during the
applicant's comments. The offer to incorporate the trail alignment along the large wetland is
commendable. These types of trails are desirable in our society. They allow an opportunity
to come in close contact with our natural surroundings. However it is stafrs position that this
trail should be constructed in conjunction with the initial public improvements in the area. As
the commission is aware, it is very difficult to go back once the homes have been developed,
even if you have a trail alignment identified and even if somebody else is going to pay for it.
At that time it becomes much more difficult to get that trail constructed so it would be stafrs
recommendation to see that construction take place with the adjoining improvements, or the
adjacent improvements in the area. Recommendation. It is recommended that the preliminary
plat to subdivide 112 acres from Rural. Residential to Planned Unit Development into 115
single family lots, referenced as the Song property, be approved by the Park and Recreation
Commission contingent upon the following conditions of approval being met. There's two
each in regard to parks and trails. In regard to parks. That the private association park be
approved only if the additional amenity of an open field with a minimum size of 200 feet
square with a maximum of 4% slope be added to the park layout. This open field is to be in
addition and not in lieu of existing propo~ed amenities. And then second, that full park fees
shall be paid at the rate in force upon building permit application. In regards to trails, we
have two issues there. A 20 foot trail easement shall be granted along the entire easterly
property line. Furthermore, that this easement shall be included in the grading plan for the
project with a suitable trail bed being prepared. That trail bed may meander within this
easement alignment at the discretion of the applicant, but the eventual alignment must be
conducive to future trail construction and is subject to approval as part of the grading plan
review. Then again, planting of trees shall be restricted to areas west of that trail bench or
outside the trail. Secondly, that the applicant shall dedicate lands to accommodate trail
construction along the southern boundary of the Johnson-Dolejsi-Turner preliminary plat as
depicted on the attachment in your packet. The applicant shall map and construct a trail
paralleling that wetland. This construction is to be completed per city specifications at the
time of adjoining street construction. Final alignment of this trail shall be staked by the
developer and approved by the Park and Recreation Director and the City Engineer. In
recognition for this dedication of this trail corridor and the construction of that trail, it is
recommended that the applicant receive a full trail fee credits at the time of building permit
application for both the Song property and the Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner applications. That will
require amendments to the conditions of approval associated with the preliminary plat for the
Johnson-Dolejsi-Turner properties. This trail shall include a connectionto the street plan as
indicated between Lots 16 and 17, Block 2, or a suitable similar location in that vicinity. I
believe that last item is also an issue which the applicant would like to discuss with the
commission tonight. With that, I'll turn it over to you Chairman Schroers.
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, t 993
Schroers: Okay. I think at this time it would be appropriate to hear what the applicant has to
say.
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Terry Forbord: Members of the Park Commission, my DIme is Terry Forbord. fin with
Lundgren Bros, 935 East Wayzata Blvd IDd Mr. Hoffman did a aood job in Illlmmarizing all
the issues related to this proposa1...reIated to his staff report to the Pari IDd Rec Commission.
He's right, on August 9th we went out. and walked the wetlands where the public nil is being
proposed. As you recall at the last meeting I uked that this item be tabled because .. I was
sitting and listening to the Parks Commission it became dear to me that you liked our . .
proposal but the part that you dicln' like about it was the fact that we had an association park
versus a public park. At least that's...some smaller issues. For us we think it is very ,very
important for the success of this neighborhood to have something'that is within the
community that the city will not-be able to provide. And we've gone, tlten th., extra effort
and tried to explain those items to you IDd why we think it's important IDd...As I was sitting
here listening to the comments of the commission, I thought that maybe there's III
opportunity, and I wasn't sure at the time but maybe there's III opportunity to provide a public
experience that would benefit everybody who lives in the city that would connect to city
public trails that presently are planned for Highway 41 and Galpin Blvd. Now for those of
you who have ever walked trails, whether they be municipal or county or otherwise, there .e
different types of trail experiences. Certainly the type of trail experience that we would enjoy
on Highway 41 is one of pretty much utilitarian needs. Trying to get from one Point A to
Point B...by traffic. You might have some enjoyable experience, you're out exercising, 'efc but
it's not going to be the type of trail experience that you'd probably want to go for relaxation.
So as I was contemplating that, thought that I should maybe think about that. Maybe I have
an opportunity to provide the city with something that would connect those two public trails
that are utilitarian in nature and provide an experience that would be different. So Parks
Director Hoffman and I walked that property and it WIS a nicer experience than I IIlticipated
it would be. I think primarily because of the topography of the area. The area in question
around the wetland i~ quite a bit lower than all the other upland areas that surrounds it. Some'
of the pictures of slides that be showed represent that but it's bard to describe what you'd be
able to see if you were there in person. While we were walking right in this area riaht here,
excuse me. We were walking right bere, we saw a buck come out of the woods IIld run
across here and he came across bere. We startled lDother buck in the IUJer arus.We saw
hawks and the thing that WIS probably more unique to it than anything, was the quiet that
was down there. Probably because of the depression to the rest of the land around it and all
the upland. When you're up in this area you can bear Highway 41llld Highway 5. I don'
recall bearing any highway noise at all when J was down bere 10 it was very quiet. I quickly
realized what J had hoped to realize and that it WIS a unique experience that might be of
interest to the city. Now nonnally we would not be proposing to the city a public nil
corridor in the back yards of homes because our home buyers.would tell us nonnally that they
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24. 1993
would be very. very opposed to that. And these issues have been fought in battles in every
city in the metropolitan area. Most people would prefer not to have a trail in their back yard.
If it was directly there to see it. The unique thing about this site, and the sites around it, is
most of it. not all of it but most of it is wooded. And like I said, where the trail would be is
at the toe of the slope and the homesites are up higher. So I weighed that and like I said,
normally we wouldn't be proposing that because it's something that we fear. The last thing
you want to do is do something to a homesite that would make it so nobody would want to
buy it. And in talking to Park Director Hoffman, he kind of...on us a little bit. He did and I
did and there's a trade off. There might be some people that would look at it as a benefit. I
mean from my experience I can tell you that most people, if they can see it. If it's right out
their back door and they're sitting on their deck, the last thing...talking to their spouse, most
people would not want to see people walking in their backyard. The unique thing of this, is
that all those lots in those areas are very deep lots. Most of them are very wooded and most
of them are very high. There's only a section of lots right through here, I think there's
probably 5, maybe 6 at the very most, that you had...where you could actually, if you were on
your deck, you'd be able to look down and see a trail. The unique part about that is that .
when you're up high and looking beyond the trail, there's a vista that probably goes for maybe
a couple miles. As far as the view that you can see. So there's going to be some trade offs
there. So the way I look at it, after a lot of thought, is there's 5 or 6 lots here that may be
impacted by that trail. And if there's some people don't like that, well we have. other lots
that are available to them that they don't have to buy the lot on the trail either. Now if I had
20 or 30 lots in here affected by that trail, I would not even consider proposing it. I think
because of that, I had 5 lots. there might be somebody who's a rollerblader in that family who
would want to..get on that trail and rollerblade around. There's probably 5 people out there
that might be willing to do that. So normally we wouldn't be proposing this. I think the
situation is a little unique. I think it offers an experience that. I'm real familiar with
Chanhassen trails and...but I think this would be certainly fair to say that this is a little
different experience than some of the other trails that are provided in the city. And it does
link two trails that will be common routes for school children going through to school that
will be at Galpin and Highway 5. The land...down by Swings or across the street from
Swings. there will be a...or some type of tunnel system that goes under Highway S to the
school and community park area that will be there as part of the school grounds. So this kind
of ties it all together. I wish I could tell you that I thought of this in the beginning and it was
a well conceived master plan...so I think that it's really something unique that is a benefit to
the city. The other item that I would like to address, and there was some public comment at
the last meeting about the availability of other properties for sale in the area. As Parks
Director Hoffman has explained to you this evening, you have a willing seller who would like
to have a public park right in his front yard and that is Mr. Stockdale. Mr.Stockdale asked to
meet with me last week, unless he's changed his mind since then. He's very, very encouraged
by the idea of having a park in his front yard. As long as he can meet a satisfactory
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993 .
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agreement with the city and that was none of my business so I didn't get into that with him .
But he met with me and asked me if I would be wiUina...Kquirina the ~ainder of his
property... So we hav, a unique situation where we BOW laave somebody who's willing to
provide the city with the parkland that the city has iDdicated is desired from them. At the
same time, L1D1dgren Bros ript next door is willing to build two association parks at our cost
providing amenities that the city cannpt provide it's residents and we also are goina to
continue to agree, to pay park dedication lees...IO it JeemSto me that all 01 1be things that
were of concern to the parks co_ssion at our last meetina. have the potential for being
addressed well beyond, exceeding the limits of, or the expectations that normally would, be
available to the city in a given area. If you add up all the amenities in that area. if tbat
public parkland is acquired, and with the trail system that's there that was DeveI' part of the
Comp Plan, you have a park and trail experience in an area that most cities would be very
pleased... The . other 1D1ique thing about the Stockdale property is that there's been a lot of
discussion about obtaining the ript type of property for Ibe ript type of use. 'lbe Stockdale
property is relatively flat. It has easy access to Galpin Boulevard. It offers the type of
topography that is conducive to that type of use. You will Dot find that type of land on the
Song property. In discussing,
Schroers: Can I ask a question? Would L1D1dgren Bros be interested in doing preliminary
grading on that site were we to find that accessible?
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Terry Forbord: Which site sir?
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Schroers: What you're speaking about on the Stockdale property. I mean I realize that thi~ is
all hypothetical that it would happen but is that somethina that L1D1dgren BlOs would
consider?
Terry Forbord: If Lundgren Bros has equipment on site at the time that the city would like to
have that park developed and graded, we'd be willing to talk to the city to try to facilitate the
most inexpensive way of development. lbe timing would probably be the key.
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Berg: Could I ask a couple questions about the trail before you move too far away from that.
My recollection from the last meeting was that one of the concerns with having a city park
within that association, within that development, was the concern of the neipOOrs to the type
of people that wOuld be coming in to use the city park outside of the neipOOrhood. I'm
wondering if you've given thoupt to the fact that this trail is also going to introduce people
into that neighborhood, into that development
Terry Forbord: lbat was an item that we did Dot raise. That was an item that somebody else
raised. I never, ever said that we were concerned about the type of people that would be
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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coming into our neighborhood. I never stated that.
Berg: So for you that's not a factor at all?
Terry Forbord: I think the question, at least that I recall, if I remember my response, it is a
concern of our's and people, and this is not unlike if this was a townhome development or if
this was an apartment complex. People are paying for a facility that happens to be there with
their money. They are maintaining it. I think that it's fair that those people would have a
concern about the use of people from outside the area coming to use it. It is not a concern of
our's with any of the type of people that live in Chanhassen...So as far as the experience with
the trail, as I said, I probably don't have words that are creative enough to describe it. I was
very pleasantly surprised and I had been down there like 4 years ago but when you're looking
at land for the first time and you're trying to make some buying decisions, it's different than
when you're out trying to imagine an experience of a trail...
Berg: One other question regarding the trail as well. My concern would be that because this
is a private association park, that this trail might also be construed as a private trail. Would
you have any, I would assume that you probably wouldn't have any trouble with identifying it
as a city trail so that everyone in the city would know that it was accessible to them.
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Terry Forbord: We would have absolutely no problem with that. In fact it connects with two
planned city public trails now along Highway 41 and Galpin. I'm not sure if the city has a
sign system that designates the trail but if they don't, we would not have any problem
whatsoever designating that.
Lash: I have a question too in regards to that. From the looks of the plan, it doesn't actually
connect TH 41 to Galpin. Is that correct? At this point it doesn't.
Hoffman: Correct.
Lash: Okay, so what is the potential. Say we were to acquire the Stockdale property. How
did that, knowing that I'm not always really good at reading these maps but can you show
me, would the park property abut this wetland so that we could continue the trail from the
wetland right into the park property?
Hoffman: I think Mr. Forbord could go ahead and show that. ...potentially you could loop
the trail up around the cul-de-sac and bring it into the Stockdale property.
Lash: I guess for future, if this all comes together, that would be maybe one of my hopes
would be that we could ultimately have that trail connect into the public park and then on out
11
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to Galpin. And then ultimately if the Dolejsi, the southern segment were to come in for
development, that we would have earmarked, at this time I would like to have it earmarked
. that we would want also to have an easement to continue around that development also so we
could end actually with a whole circled II'eI. in there with . trail.
Teny Forbord: Let me comment on . couple things. Todd and I were out walkinain this
area. There's kind of an existina farm road that presently kind of crosses ript here. There
was a slide of that. It's kind of hard to decipher amless you would have mown 1hat that's
what it was. We were trying to decide would it lUke more IIIlSe to 80 up this Way and
come down here. And at 1hat time the Stockdale proposal was not a discussion 10 we had
contemplated primarily how would weaet 0. here. to make it connect with the trail that
went over to the school. So I would imaaine that there's veJy probably some sense in tl)ting
to connect that to that...and probably wOuld happen durinathe plattina process of the
Stockdale property. As far as continuation of the trail around the entire wetland. .L1Dldgren
Bros does not control this portion of the Dolejsi property.1bat would have to be something
that would be handled a differently...
Lash: That was directed to staff that as those come in for development. I would want that to
be looked at. So the Stockdale property, is that the right hand comer...?
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Teny Forbord: Actually it goes down and probably ript there...
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Lash: The Stockdale property?,
Teny Forbord: That's correct. His property is right in here. And whether that is the best
place for the trail to come in, I couldn't answer that. There may be some wisdom to that if
there's a public park...
Lash: Okay, thank YQU.
Teny Forbord: Chairman Schroers, you had asked about trees...related to that proposed trail
and I think it's fair to say that the toe of the slope.
Schroers: May I clarify that. I wasn't referrina only to the trail but to the entire cIevelopDient.
How much impact is the development going to have on the trees there was my question. . Not
specifically the trail.
Teny Forbord: On the Song property or the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer property?
Schroers: Yes. On the entire development is where I have an interest actually.
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Terry Forbord: You know I'd have to, I can't remember what all the specifications of the
preliminary plat on the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer property...On the Song property...somewhere
around 30%. Maybe less than that. That includes right-of-way and... -
Schroers: Okay, and that came about before the development of the Tree Board so that won't
apply to your development but that is .pretty consistent with what is happening now. There's
pretty much a 30%.
Terry Forbord: And we're trying to follow that and I know the public hearing was cancelled
and I certainly will be present at that public hearing because there's a lot of issues that I think
need to be discussed on that but I'll wait until that public hearing before I do. A couple more
items. Just to answer the question about the trail. Most of the trees that are d~wn by the
wetland are box elders. Parks Director Hoffman identified those for me becau~ I'm not an
arborist or anything and some of them are dead too. And I think it's fair to say that near the
toe of the slope, that's where the trees are terminating. And for a trail to be there, to have
that type of experience where you're right next to the wetland and right next to the woods,
there will be some vegetation, some brush, possibly a few scrub trees type things that would
be...part of that trail construction. But I believe the trails are presently 8 feet? So I really
think it will be extremely minimal given .the circumstances. About the item in the association
park about...flat area to have a little more active recreation. First of all there won't be any
homes anywhere near the association park, or certainly not close enough to where anybody
could cause damage to one of those homes by swinging. And secondly.. the idea of those
association parks is not to have pick-up games and that's, they're designed so those type of
things aren't going to be available. Now we do think it was an excellent idea that the staff
had of trying to expand some flat area there so...play frisbee or if you wanted to play catch or
throw a football a little bit, we think that's a good idea. But we do not want to make 250 x
250 feet. That's 3/4 of the length of a football field and that's an awfully large area flatten,
especially in light of the fact that if the city is successful in it's attempts to acquire public
property in there, that's really the type of area that would be conducive for those types of
activities. Let me just talk a little bit about the trail along Galpin Blvd. If I may, I'll just go
to the overhead. On the overhead presently it shows the existing condition of Galpin Blvd.
To my knowledge, the Galpin Blvd currently has a 66 foot right-of-way and there's
approximately 13 feet of pavement in each direction for a combined pavement of 26 feet. So
there's 20 feet of right-of-way on each side of the pavement. From the pavement edge to the
edge of the right-of-way. Now what the city is proposing for the future of Galpin Blvd would
be that it would be a 100 foot wide right-of-way and the pavement would be, if it ever were
expanded to 4 lanes, would be 26 feet in each direction so you have two lanes heading south
and two lanes heading north. The city desires, and it is so noted on the comprehensive plan
to have a trail, a north/south trail along Galpin Blvd. And I'm not sure if it states it should be
on both sides or not but I know it's important for the city to have some trail connection there.
13
And this is not an uncommon request. I think in any city in the metropolitan area that you
would go to, on a key north/south street like dUs, it would be reasonable to say that any
municipality and parks commission would hope to have IOmetype of trail there and we think
that's a good idea. We have absolutely no problem with. that idea. Especially because it's
going to be a key route for children going to the Dew school. What we cIo have IOme
difficulty with, and this is also,...eonsistent llOund theD)etropOlitan area but oftentimes there
are rights-of-way or easements asked for by either the enaiDeeriDa department or IOmetimes a
parks department for additional. IIDOlDlt of tWnJ otprivate property for use that really 10es
beyond what the need is to accomplish the tllDetuk. ADd in this particular case, we dUnk
that it's creating an unnecessary burden on, not 0DIy the land cleveIOJ*' but the IlDd OWDer
and we think it readily can be .accomplished the objective withoutauch a tlkina.;N you'll
see on the upper left here, there's a diagram in yourpackeL You have your aIlter line of the
road, 100 foot right-of-way. two lanes are going DOrth IDd two lanes are heading south. It's
very important for the city to have a utility corridor and I'm sure there will .~ a response to
things I'm going to tell you but the utility corridor gives the city the ability to run utilities, .
whatever they may be, private or public, in this area. . And there also is on the other side you
have to remember there's 24 feet that right now isn't beina used at all. There's also a utility
corridor opportunity there. I'm not sure if the city presently has planned another trail on that
side. I'm not sure if it would make sense to have a trail on both sides but you cIo have 24
feet on the other side of the road. On tliis side, what we're showing here within the existing.
or excuse me. Within the proposed right-of-way, we're showinaan 8 foot wide trail. That's...
been asked for and was connected to the Comp Plan and it can easily be constructed in that
right-of-way. And then there shows an additional, and this is for illustrative purposes only.
It's showing an additional 6 feet between the edge of the trail and what would be the toe of a
berm that would screen future homes along Galpin Blvd from this traffic that will be
occurring over time. Now the utility corridor also provides a buffer from the edge of the curb
to the people that are walking. This is what we believe to be totally compatible with what the
desires of the city are. We believe that all the utility corridors and utility items nee.esslry can
go in that corridor. There's plenty of room for it there. If additional right-of-way is asked
for, then you're expanding into the private property area of the back yards of those future
homeowners and it's not really Deeded. As an example m show you, this is an exhibit that
was put together by one of the city's consultants for a different city in Woodbury. ,Bonestroo
was the consultant here. And this is. minor arterial street in Woodbury, and I'm just
showing this for an example of what other cities in situations like this. It can be clone and
I'm showing you that it can be clone. That it's Dot uncommon. 1bis is an 8S foot riaht-of-way
which is 1 S feet narrower than the proposed and shows again 4 lanes of traftic. Two heading
for illustrative purposes, fn say two headiDa DOrth IDd two headinalOuth. It shows the 10
foot corridor for the trail and has a 9 foot space...with the slope. This is the desip right out
of the spec book and the trail that is being constructed in Woodbury. And so theSe kinds of
things are being done and there are opportunities for utility corridors in here on this side, on
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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this side and so the only thing that we're stating to you is that we are not at all at difficulty
with the concept. We think the concept is a great concept but we think. that more right-of-
way is being required than is necessary to accomplish the task and we would like you to
consider amending the request to lessen the amount of right-of-way that's required on the trail
because it realIy becomes land...
Lash: Mr. Forbord, just to clear me up. The bottom picture. Is that what you're proposing
or is that what we're proposing?
Terry Forbord: This is what we would be proposing.
Lash: Is that with the 17 foot trail easement as opposed to the 20 foot?
Terry Forbord: There's an additional right-of-way that is being required by the county and by
the city of 17 feet and we would like to put the trail within that right-of-way. The 17 feet on
each side so 17 and 17 is 34.
Lash: On each side of the road?
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Terry Forbord: 17 feet on each side of Galpin so right now if you recall, this is 66. So if
you add 17 feet on this side and 17 feet on that side, that's 34 to make it 100. That's a very,
very wide right-of-way and the point I'm making is that cities are putting the same things in
right-of-ways that are 85 feet. And certainly I think it's fair to say, this isn't true everywhere
but there's certainly, from a planning perspective, is a movement afoot to lessen right-of-way.
To lessen the width of roads except for roads that are very, very necessary and all we're
saying here is that we think it's an excessive taking that infringes upon the development
opportunity of those lots that we're having to back up to. Now remember, the challenge that
we have, if we reaIly want to do a nice job with those lots, the challenge that we have is how
do we screen those lots from Galpin Blvd because I don't think it'd be fair for me to try to
seIl my home to future home buyers. Oh yeah, Galpin Blvd's always going to be this real
nice, sleepy road. Two lanes. One going north. One going south. That isn't what I'm going to
be telIing them. I'm going to be telling them that someday this is going to be a very, very
busy road and I'm going to have to, in order for me to do a good job to protect those people
from that busy road, I should be building a berm. I should probably be landscaping it. I
should probably trying to be buffering the impact with that road. WelI, if you start taking
more right-of-way for trail purposes than is necessary, I can't put the berm that close to the
road and it keeps moving the berm this way. If I keep moving the berm this way, then I'm
moving that berm into the back yards, bringing the berm closer to the house. People will be
sitting on their deck and all of a sudden there's a berm there. And every little foot makes a
difference to the people who happen to be buying these homes. .
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
Lash: So we're talking a difference of 3 feet, right? From what the recommendation is and
what you're suggesting?
Terry Forbord: No. No.1bey WlDt an additional 20 feet.
Terry Forbord: Correct. That's correct.
Andrews: On the Song, current Song property.
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trail corridor within the 100 foot right-of-way and have all that pavement and all that buffer
and everything. I mean I'm not trying to say that, I mean I can't blame city ~iineers for
wanting more rights-of-way for their needs and I guess I can't blame the Park Department for '
wanting as much right-of-way as they possibly can get for a trail but the point is...not to put a
berm in. For the people looking at a road, well that wouldn't be very Dice either. Or the
other alternative is to obliterate these lots and just not have them. Or move this road,
continue moving, I mean it's just not, we think it's overkill and we don't think it's necessary
and we think the diagram shows that. We think what's happens in other cities sbowsit...
Now there are cities that are but certainly it's fair to say that nowadays cities are starting to
take a look at that. If we really don't need it, why should we be asked for it. Just a few last
items that I'd like to cover. 1 talked to Parks Director Hoffman about f:be construction of the
proposed public trail and he didn't have a problem with this proposal. ,I think his staff report
already says that but we would like to build that public trail as, the development will be
phased. We'll be doing one phase and we'd like to build that public trailllong that phase and
then when we do the next phase, build that segment of the public traillDd then as you go,
because that's how you're going to be doing the grading. You kind of build it IS you gOlDd I
think that's what, I'm not sure but I think...talking today. And lastly, two last items. We
would have to amend our PUD approvll that we llready have on the Johnson-Dolejsi-Tumer
property in order to accomplish this. We would like, IDd 1 don't know if this is really a Park
Commission issue but we'd like the fees waived to accommodate that. And the last item
would be that it's been the desire of the Park Director, and I think it's. good idea. fm just
not sure how to facilitate it right now. I believe that we'll be able to fiaure out . way but it's
the desire, the idea of the Parks Director, nl Jive him credit for it If you recall there's that
proposed trail corridor 1I0ng through here. And he would like us to put . connection tiom
the street B, between a couple of these lots here down to that trail. And obviously that poses
a little bit of a problem for us because to be fair to those future homeowners, fm Joing to
obviously have to tell them that there's,oing to be atraillink...but not only that, J need to
kind of protect them a little bit tiom that trail for the same reasons that I've IIready identified.
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Now I wouldn't have to do this but I just think it's right. We should put some kind of
plantings along there. Some trees so they don't just see people walking down their side yard
lot line. So my concern is that somewhere along in here I'm going to have to adjust some lot
lines too I think in order to make those home sites so they're negatively impacted by that
connection. Now I'm going to need some cooperation probably from the Planning Department
and from the Engineering Department to accomplish that. And I think that they're willing to
compromise...but this is of concern to us. And now the reason I bring it up is because we'll
have to amend this preliminary plat. We're going to have to try to find a way of how do we
do that in here. Make two of those lots a little wider in order to be able to buffer those home
sites from that link. And so we would like approval to direct staff to work with us to try and
figure out a way to accomplish that, because I'm not sure how we can do that. I think the
idea's a sound idea but I sense I'm going to need the cooperation of other departments,
planning and engineering.
Lash: What are your, I'm just looking at, I see there's kind of a short cul-de-sac right in th~
middle. Yep. Okay, go to the comer lot there. So if you ran it there, you'd be yeah. Would
that work better? It wouldn't be in the side yard of two houses. It be along the back.
Terry Forbord: Yeah, you know that's one of those things that's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of
the other. You know the people that are sitting on this, their deck here trying to have their
quiet enjoyment, would it impact them more to have the trail here than to try to put it
between the side of the yard of that lot line. And I don't know right now. To me the way we
would normally go about that, we would first of all try to get the other departments to
cooperate and maybe allowing us to adjust some lot lines, because I do think it's an important
issue. I don't think it'd be fair to those future home buyers if we just ignore it. So what I
would do then is I would like to stake the field. I mean this is the kind of thing you go out
in the field and kind of do it there rather than just on a piece of paper because you get a more
real feeling of it. All I'm asking for, and I think most of you would probably agree. Yeah,
this is a consideration we should give to the homeowners. And we're just going to need the .
cooperation of Todd's letter and he's said that he'd be happy to work with me on that. I
would just like whatever approval or recommendation you give tonight, that you would direct
staff, engineering and planning to assist us to accomplish that. Because we think it's a good
idea. I'll be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Schroers: Okay. Well thank you very much Mr. Forbord and we appreciate your work and
your effort in trying to work with the city and I'm going to open this up to commission
discussion in just a minute. I think we need to refocus what the role of this commission is
regarding this particular, not only this development but this area. This area is a park deficient
area so as the area develops, the city needs and our mission here is to acquire public parks
space in park deficient areas so the surrounding community has facilities to use. So we have
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Park and Recreation Commission-August 24.1993
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to keep that in mind. There's possibilities of development of public park property on the
Stockdale property and other potential development sites in the area. However. those are
possibilities that may or may not happen. 'Wemay or may not be able to capitalize on them.
This is the biggest devdopment proposed that we bow of in the area. It is the most logical
place to acquire the needed parkland IIld iti. what's happening now in fact so with that in
mind. I'd like to open it up to Illy commissionrespoDSe.
Lash: I'd like to hear if there are any other public comments first.I'clon't know .if there are.
Schroers: Is there anyone else in the audience that would wish to make . statement in regard
to the Lundgren Bros devel()pment this evening?
Andrews: I have a question for Todd. If we were to take staff recommendation. what would
be the approximately amount of fees that we would collect for this devel()pment? '
Hoffman: Park fees currently are S600.00.Those are increased on an annual basis. So if'
this is thing gets in the ,ground 1994. you'll probably see those doser to 5700.00. Say you
have 200 in total, 234 homesites I believe I stated. So it would nm about 5140 some
thousand dollars.
Andrews: And then kind of as a follow up question. If the city were to develw .
neighborhood park simiilar to what Lundgren is proposing to build at their cost, what would
be our cost to develop that?
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Dave Stockdale: My name's Dave Stockdale end I think most of you...1 bad conversations
with both Todd and Terry and it's too early to say whether or not it's soing to come to
fruition but we are. my wife and I are definitely ()peD to the concept of parkland adjoinins
our property. There's a lot of things that have to be worked out before I say it', . JO ao but
we're definitely in dialogue on it.
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Schroers: Weill appreciate you bringing that information forward because 'as you can see.
this is a difficult. complicated issue right here IIld my personal feeling is that there is . lot of
unanswered questions and we need to do some JI'01D1d work and make . plan I feel. you
know and have somethins to work with before we can ao ahead and make any kind of real
definitive recommendation. I mean I think we would be premature at this point ~ SO ahead
and make these recommendations not bowing on what we are going to be able to or what we
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
aren't going to be able to do in the future. I mean we need to do some research here before
we can make an educated decision on this.
Dave Stockdale: Weare going to consider your dialogue, however it passes tonight and
proceed.
Schroers: Any new information, we'd appreciate knowing about it.
Dave Stockdale: We'll keep you posted.
Schroers: Thank you.
Lash: Is it possible to make a recommendation contingent on the fact that we Will be able to
acquire some properties for public park? And if that situation disappeared, we'd be able to
come back and change our recommendation.
Hoffman: That was my thought this afternoon. I called to the City Attorney's office and got
in too late in the day to get an answer to that question.
Schroers: That almost seems like it would be unfair though to the developer and to anyone
else if we say well, yeah. We'll go along with this provided that we can make another deal
and get halfway through another deal and that doesn't pan out and then come back at a later
date and tell this developer that no, they've got to change their plans. I don't think we want.
to do that.
Hoffman: I think you're correct in that assumption.
Schroers: Mr. Forbord.
Terry Forbord: Mr. Chair, members of the Park Commission. Terry Forbord with Lundgren
Bros. Lundgren Bros would prefer this evening that the commission would either vote for or
against the proposal and the reason is we have contract obligations with our sellers. We
would rather walk away from this deal and know now rather than to continue it. We cannot
continue to...or we'll be in violation of our contractual obligations. We would prefer this
evening that you would vote for or vote against it. Thank you.
Schroers: Is there anyone else present in the audience this evening that would like to speak on
behalf of this project? Any other commission response?
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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Roeser: Well I'm just wondering now,the recommendations that staff has made here. There
is absolutely no way that you can live with these, is that what I'm amderstanding here? The
20 foot trail easement for instance. Or adding the 2S0 Jquare feet to the private park.
Lash: Are you asking Mr. Forbord?
Roeser: Yeah. I just, yeah.
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Teny Forbord: Mr. Chair, members of the Park Commission. Terry Forbord. fm sony, J
didn't know you were addressing Die. I thought you were talking to the Parks Director.We
feel that we have made III incredible proposal to the city. .In Iipt of III the amemties that we
are going to be putting in at our expense, ad also we're JOing to Jive the city additionallllld
for public right-of-way ad also agreeing to pay park dedication fees. We really feel that we
have met the mark. I mean in any other city I think you'd be hard pressed to find ay city
that would not just welcome a proposal like this with ~ arms. And I'm not JOing to stand
up here and say that we're the greatest thing in the world, because we're not. We make a lot
of mistakes. I addre~ that at the last meeting but we do know what, the limitations of
what we can do from an economic standpoint and from a design standpoint. And we know
what works from a marketing standpoint. I think there may be some tine tuning of some of
those items that you raised. If you take a 2S0 foot by 2$0 foot flat area in this general
vicinity, there isn't one. And we'd have to, I don't know what we'd have to do to our plan to
accomplish that. The only choice I would be able to do is take up a home site and I ~'t
afford to do that. So that to me becomes an issue where I can't do that. Now essentially, if I
believe that the city is going to acquire a public park, and J believe that's in the city's best
interest, and I think they probably will do that, then that type of active...will be available at'
that park within very short distance along public trails right to there. So, what wu the other
item other than the 250 x 250?
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Roeser: The 20 foot, trail easement.
Teny Forbord: Well what would happen is I would end up losing maybe a dozen lots... The
alternative is taking IIld pushing that berm real close up to the houses.
Roeser: Now you've told us that. I understand that.
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Teny Forbord: I wouldn't want to do that. I wouldn't want to sell somebody a lot like that
and I don't think anybody would want to live on a lot like that. If there wu really a need
and it couldn't be done lilY other way,l wouldn't be proposing this but I know it CID be done.
We've done it and other cities do it so that's the only reason I'm proposing it beciuse J bow
we can accomplish that and everybody can still have what they want.
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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Roeser: See what you're asking us to do though is to set some precedence here to do some
things that we've never done before. For instance, granting you the right to build a private
park. Granting you a 17 foot easement. We're changing some things here that by doing it,
the next developer that comes in is going to say hey. Look what you did here. Look what
you've given them. You know and then all of a sudden we're, it seems to me we're getting
ourselves into something.
Terry Forbord: Well to be honest with you, the city already has approved a preliminary plat
with an association park like this and the city's done so also at condominiums, apartment
complexes. They have very similar facilities. But you have to remember also this is a PUD.
And if you read the zoning code, the intent of the PUD ordinance is to provide flexibility...
exactly the types of things we're talking about. That's what a PUD is for. It's a different
zoning tool, different zoning district that is essentially there so that, to break away from the
rigidity of standard subdivision planning. So the city, staff, park commissioners, planning
commissions, the council and the developer or the applicant can all come together with as
creative an idea as possible and it doesn't set a precedent because it's a PUD.
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Lash: But the flip side of that is for a PUD, it's the developer's obligation to provide above
and beyond what's normally required. So for us to be providing the flexibility to you, we're
supposed to be getting some pretty big paybacks, and right now I haven't really seen really
big paybacks. I mean I've seen some nice things but it's nothing way above and beyond what
we've seen in other developments so.
Schroers: Here's what I'd like to ask you Terry. It's not that we are against a community
having it's own amenities. Like you say, we all know that there are apartment complexes and
townhome complexes that have their own tennis courts and own swimming pools, all that
stuff. But how do we accomplish our job? How do we acquire public space in that
neighborhood? I can tell you from past experience, things that have happened many, many
years ago have come back to haunt us. Things that we had no control over. Nothing to do
with. People came back all of a sudden saying, where's our park and we're going, where's
what park. Well we were promised a park however many years ago and it's not there. And
now we want our park. And so where's the money coming from to develop it? Where is the
property coming from to put the park on? We're not going to get ourself in that situation
again. We can't and in order to conform to the master plan of the city and the whole
development of Chanhassen as a whole, somewhere in your neighborhood, which is park
deficient, we have to acquire public space. How do we do it? Where do we get it?
Terry Forbord: You know we agree with that. I know there are people who have come forth
to the city willing to sell their property. Mr. Stockdale just indicated tonight that he's having
dialogue with the city. I have not heard him say that he will not sell the city his' land. I have
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heard him say that he's really interested in selling the city his land, as long as they can come
to satisfactory terms. and I know there are other parcels that were identified by Parks Director
Hoffman that are for sale right now. . Because rm trying to buy them. -I don't know if I'll be
successful so I know there's land out there. If the city really wants to buy parkland, the city
can buy parks if they want to. Now the alternative, Imun there is a bottom line llternative
to this is that if the city doesn't want us to develop it, then we'll find out. .We'll go away and
we'll just develop the site that we do. have and the city can wait for the next person to come
in and they can exact from that person the parkland, if they haven't acquired any by that time,
they can exact from that particular, developer. if it ever develops in the future, a site on. it
Again. if they haven't IIready acquired it. And then what the City's ICCOmplished is that they
have a S acre site that needs to be improved. lbey're notloing to have, DO Jonger have an
association park anywhere with the other amenities becluse that wi)) be gone. ..nose 1 SO
homeowners won't have the benefit of a park. I mean really the alternative isn!t really a very
nice thing for the city either. Whether it's an association park or a public park. it is providing
benefit to the citizens of the city. And so we think that it's a gift horse in the mouth. We
really do. I understand your situation. 1 really do and I do believe there needs to be a public
park in that area. I've always favored that.
Manders: I think the question on, you're talking about discussioDS with other land holders in
the area. What is an acre of land aoing for?
Terry Forbord: In Chanhassen. residential.
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that land in that area would probably be anywhere from 518,000.00 in the worst case, or the
lowest to 530,000.00 on the hip end. It just depends on the site.
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Berg: My concern, and certainly with your business...you know this better than I. It's easy
for us to sit here and talk about the people who are willing to deal and who are talking to the
city but we also know that tomorrow they could change their mind. And then where are we?
We're ript back to where we are now with an association park and nothing to serve the rest
of the people in that area. That's my concern. We can't sit here and presume that there is
going to be land available tomorrow. I don't think we can make that kind of assumption.
Terry Forbord: I agree. . I mean there's nothing for sure and I can terminate my option
tomorrow and I can walk away too. I mean there's no guarantee that I'll be here either. I
mean in this type of situation, there are no guarantees IUltil you actually get to that point We
think that we're bringing a real valid proposal that if we can make it throup the process,
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we'll have a very nice neighborhood for possibly people who already live in Chanhassen.
Most of our buyers come from the general area. We get some people from outside the area
so...citizens of Chanhassen. But I do believe that the city can buy some land. I really do
believe that, because if I can go out and buy it, there's no reason the city couldn't go out and
buy it.
Schroers: We can go out and buy it but it's really not the best means of acquisition. Roughly
speaking, just a very rough estimate in park dedication fees, we may get somewhere between
S120,OOO.00 and S130,OOO.00 from your development. Okay. Figure an average of
S25,OOO.00 per acre to acquire property. Might be a ballpark figure. For S acres we're
talking S125,OOO.00 to acquire the property and then there are no funds left to develop it. If
we took your proposal, say we got SI20,OOO.00-S130,OOO.00 from you. Went and bought
property someplace else, all we're doing is a trade. We don't end up with a park that's
developed. We don't end up with any facilities. All we end up with is S125,OOO.00 piece of
property that we still have to figure out a way to develop. Buy equipment for. Facilitate and
get up and running.
Andrews: I guess I'd like to comment. We'd be in that position either way.
Lash: You know, I was ready to move on this but I think we've got, unless somebody's got
something, We're talking this thing to death. But my idea was to do a recommendation that
was contingent on the factor of the city acquiring property for a public park. If that idea isn't
acceptable to the applicant, then I'm ready to come up with a new one. A new motion so.
Andrews: Let her fly.
Schroers: I'm ready at this point.
Lash: Okay. I guess I would move that we deny this application until we are able to acquire'
public property in the area.
Berg: Second.
Terry Forbord: Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. What was it that I wasn't acceptable to me and I wasn't
clear on.
Lash: We asked if having a contingent recommendation based on us acquiring a couple of
properties, we would make a recommendation based on that deal coming forth. And you said
you couldn't live with that because you've got contracts and people and you have'to get
moving and so if you can't live with that, I can understand that. But then we've got to do
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24,
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what we have to do too.
Teny Forbord: Mr. Cliair. J was not respondinl to Commissioner Lash's idea. I was
responding to the fact that we would like to know ODe way or the other whether the city
wants this proposal to proceed. .1 would not be opposed to her lUIIestion.1S IODI IS there
was like a time limit on it. because if it went on in petpetuity, it wouldn't serve die city ad it
certainly wouldn't serve the applicant. So maybe it's fair to say, that ~tbin.30 days.
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Schroers: This is exactly what I had written' down."1'he exact same idea thatJa has brouaht
up. Moving to accept the recommendation dependent on lCquisition of other acceptable
public space in the area. How lonl that would take to do that. I don't rea1lyknow. To
research it but I would also vote yes on that if we were able to do that. I'm DOt sure,' staff
may have to consult with the City Attomey to see if that's. if there's ay lelal implications
involved. I think that's in leneral what we're sayinl is we don't have enouah information to
make a really good. solid decision toniaht. We want some more information. We like the
proposal. We like your plan. We just need to find a way to assure that we are loinS to be
able to acquire public space and this is What we are attemptinl to do. So I think that we
would have a good chance of votinl this in continlent on what Jan has proposed.
Andrews: Mr. Chairman, we have a motion on the floor that's been seconded for denial. I
think we have to ask, if the motion maker,ad the person who seconded it wish 10 withdraw
that motion before we consider an altemative.
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Lash: If a contingent recommendation is acceptable to the applicant. then rm willing to
withdraw my motion. .
Berg: I withdraw my second.
Schroers: Okay. Then, are we willinl to, can I have a revised motion or new motion?
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Lash: One thing that I guess I want to let other commission input on. because this was part
of my idea for a motion to start with. I want us to think about the idea for the importlDce of
the, I like the idea of the trail around the wetland. I don't know at this point in time if, ad
maybe you guys can sell me one way or another, if fm not interested in forfeiting the trail
fees to have that paved at this time. Or at the time of development. Or if we would rather
collect the fees and add that to our trail fwd but just let the easement and maybe have it as a
natural trail or something for a while with the possibility of future pavement. You know, rm
going to throw that out just to see. Get feedback from you pys.
Berg: What's the lay of the land in terms of it being wet. etc. for a nature path?
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Hoffman: Either way we would have to construct the nature path or asphalt path on high
ground. The thing that I would ask the Commission to consider is that -the value you're
receiving in having the applicant construct it is far in excess of what you would have
available in trail fees to do other work. It is more benefitting to a significant degree in that
regard. I believe, also I...the commission some additional information briefly on the 20 foot
easement issue and regard to my conversation with the city engineer's office today. A couple
areas of discussion included, and I think Larry can respond to at least one of these. ...it was
the city's intention to install boulevard plantings, you're very limited. You could not do that.
You could not put boulevard plantings over a utility corridor because of what you find
underneath there. So that's one consideration in the area where the additional right-of-way for
the trails is required. The trail easement which we would look for outside of this line, is just
that. It's an easement for trail purposes. The trail can certainly be squeezed up. against the
outside of that easement. What it's been referred to as before is an insurance policy. Once
that, these property lines come up in here, you've sold your interest in acquiring any
additional property into perpetuity. So you certainly want to take a look at those issues at
the time they are before you.
Lash: Can you show us with your pencil about where you're suggesting it should be.
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Hoffman: The trail would be outside of this line. From here over 8 feet.
Lash: The trail would be?
Hoffman: Yeah, the trail would be. The easement is 20 feet and an easement is just a
standard. It's not taking the property. It's an easement for trail purposes. We're saying that,
or staff is saying that the 8 feet can go here and then landscaping can go within that 20 foot
easement and it will act like rear yards. I'm not sure what these people will be doing on the
outside of this berm, or if that's going to be addressed as part of the association's covenants.
If that would be mowed and maintained or if that would be more natural. I'm not sure what
that would look like. An additional issue in regard to if the commission wanted to consider a
compromise in this issue, is I have taken into consideration turn lanes which would most
likely occur at these two locations. And at some point this is probably a signalized
intersection so if you put turn lanes in this right-of-way, you'd again take up a considerable
additional right-of-way in that location. That's the other difficult problem in location that
trail. So a compromise position presented by the engineering department would be to require
additional right-of-way for the length of those turn lanes, which is about, excuse me.
Additional easements for trail purposes. The length of that turn lane, which is about 300 feet,
to the north and south of these two access points...both acceleration and deceleration lanes
that are right off of and right onto.
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Andrews: That's not consistent with other developments that are happening. There Ire
usually turn lanes oft' of collectors. not ODto collectors that we're building.
Hoffman: They...with the upsrade of County Road 111, which is Powers Blvd. There will
be both a deceleration ad KCeleration... i; ,"
Lash: I would be ready to make a motion OD this. It's JOing to be
Schroers: Okay. Let's make the motion ad as the motiOD is takiDa place. let us set through
with the motion before there is any interruptions.
Lash: Okay. Are there any other comments from other...for the trail thing that I threw out?
Schroers: Just to eliminate confusion.
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Lash: I took staffs comment. Okay. J would move. that we move the recommendatiOD by
the City Council. or that we would recommend to the City Council the acceptIIlce of a
private association park with the amenity of an open field with a minimum size of 250 square
feet and a maximum slope of 4%. nus is to be in addition to and not in lieu of existing
proposed amenities. And that full park fees be accepted at the rate in force at the time of
building permit. And also as a condition to the park, J would want to have written in there
that if. in the future there was dissolution or any type of breakdown in this neighborhood
association, that the City would be deeded this park as , park and not subdivided into lots.
Then to move onto the trail issue. There would be ,.20 foot trail easement on the easterly
property line and that this easement would be included in the &radina plan for a suitable trail
bed. And that there be no trees, planting of trees in the restricted Irea west of the trail bench.
Also that we would acquire easements and the developer would provide construction of the
nature trail. or the trail around the wetland. And in lieu of that, full trail fees would be
waived. And that the amendment be done to the Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner development from
last year. And let's see. There's something else. 011. that we would direct staff to provide
cooperation to the developer and flexibility of aUowina the trail connection from the street to
the wetland. And if the city were to acquire public property in this proximity, to 1his
development. that Lundgren Bros would be cooperative in cloina the rough aradina on that
site. And to direct staff that in the future the southern Dolejsi property would come forth or
any of the other properties aft'ectina this wetland' that we would earmark that as a connection
to this trail around the wetland. Is that aU of it?
Schroers: Are you including that it's dependent on whether or not we have die ability to
acquire public space? .
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
Lash: Right. That this recommendation be contingent on the fact that we are, the city is able
to acquire public property near this development.
Andrews: Within?
Lash: Within 30 days.
Meger: Would we also at this time make the additional recommendation then for staff to
actively pursue the Stockdale property and other properties in the area or would that be a
separate?
Schroers: No, I think that would be appropriate to include. Or interpret into the 30 days? Is
that it?
Lash: Yep. Plus the friendly amendment.
Schroers: Staff, are you clear on that?
Hoffman: I'm clear. A couple of clarifications to the motion. The restricted on the trail
bench would be to the east. Just a clarification to the way Jan made her motion. The issue
of the 30 days, I do not believe that that would be sufficient time. If it's agreeable to the
applicant, that that be extended to 4S days at a minimum. 60 days at a more comfortable
level. That would be, there would need to be appraisals made and City Council items and
your recommendation should include the friendly amendment by Commissioner Meger in that
regard because the Commission is going to want to know that the commission desires to see
that parkland, there is a park in that area. And finally, mention should be made about the
trail connection between Lot 16 and 17 or a similar location. That that be a condition of
approval as well.
Lash: Okay. I accept that.
Andrews: We might as well get them all out here. Lundgren Bros had asked that we would
recommend that any fees for PUD be waived for the already approved Johnson-Dolejsi- Turner
property and I think that would be consistent with the cooperative effort we're trying to
accomplish.
Lash: The trail fee?
Andrews: Not the trail fees. The charge to amend the PUD in order to redraw the lot lines
to put in the trail linkage.
27
Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
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Hoffman: That'd be an administrative charge, as far as I understand it that the Planning
Department would assess to the preliminaJy...
Lash: Okay, so we would waive that fee.
Andrews: We'd recommend that it be waived.
Manders: Wasn't there some comment about trail fees being included in this?
Andrews: We don't want fees.
Manders: Right.
Lash: And so if they build the trail, we'll waive the fees..
Manders: Right. Okay.
Schroers: And that's all included. I think we've covered most of the bases.
Berg: I think I'll second it.
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Andrews: Just a moment. The ,motion was 30 days. Are you making. it to 4S or 60? .
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Schroers: Staff did that I think and Jan agreed to it.
Hoffman: ...agree on which one. I'm not sure what.
Roeser: Make it 60.
Schroers: Would you like input Mr. Forbord?
Terry Forbord: Mr. Chair, members of the Parks Commission. Terry Forbord. My
contractual obligations are loing to push me to the wall at 4S days. I can accept that risk. 60
days I'd be in violation of my agreement and it would cost me a fortune to amend 1be .
agreement because our agreement is written that if it goes beyond a certain time period and I
wouldn't be willing to spend that additional money at that point in time but 4S days I can live
with.
Lash: Okay. so we'll change it to 4S days...
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Park and Recreation Commission - August 24, 1993
Schroers: Okay, 45 days. Alright, we have a motion. We have a second. I'll call the
question.
Lash moved, Bell seconded dud die P8Ik ..d Recreation Commission recommend dud die
Oty Council approve die PrelimiDal)' Plat to subdivide 111 Kres from RunI Residential to
Planned Unit Development (PUD) into 115 sinlle f...nl)' loa contiDlent upon die followioa
conditions:
~
1. The acceptance of a private association park with the amenity of an open field with a
minimum size of 250 square feet and a maximum slope of 4%. This is to be in addition
to and not in lieu of existing proposed amenities.
2. Full park fees be accepted at the rate in force at the time of building permit application.
3. If in the future there is a dissolution or any type of breakdown in this neighborhood
association, that the City will be deeded this park as a park and not subdivided into lots.
4. This recommendation is contingent on the fact that the city is able to acquire public
parkland near this development within 45 days.
Trails:
1.
A 20 foot trail easement shall be granted along the entire easterly property line and that
this easement would be included in the grading plan for a suitable trail bed. This trail
bed may meander within the easement alignment at the discretion of the applicant, but
the eventual alignment must be conducive to future trail construction and is subject to
approval as a part of the grading plan review. Planting of trees shall be restricted to
areas west of the trail bench.
2.
The applicant shall dedicate lands to accommodate trail construction along the southern
boundary of the JohnsonlDolejsiffumer preliminary plat as depicted on Attachment #4.
The applicant shall map and construct a trail paralleling this wetland. This construction
is to be completed per city specifications and at the time of adjoining street construction.
Final alignment of this trail shall be staked by the developer and approved by the Park
and Recreation Director and City Engineer. In recognition for the dedication of this trail
corridor, and the construction of said trail, it is recommended that the applicant receive
full trail fee credit at the time of building permit application for both the Song property
and the JohnsonlDolejsiffumer applications. This trail shall include a connection to the
29
Park and Recreation Commission -August 24, 1993
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street plan IS indicated between Lots 16" 17, Block 2 or a similar suitable location in
the near vicinity. . .
3. Staff is directed to provide cooperation to the developer _d flexibility of allowing the
trail connection from the street to thewet1and";;;;J:t':>;"z,:;,;};
4. If the city were to acquire public properly in the proximity of this development, 1bat
Lundgren Bros would be cooperative in doing the rough &radin, on that site.
5. Direct staff that in the future if the soutbemDolejsi property would come forth or BY
of the other properties affecting this wetland, 10 earmark that as ..connection 10 this trail
around the wedand.
6. The Park and Recreation Commission would recommend that any fees associated with
the redrawing of the plat for the JohnsonlDolejsifJ'umer property for this trail easement
be waived.
All voted in favor, escept Commissioner Auclmvs who -aiDed, ..d the IDOdon carried.
MISSION HILlS. TANDEM PROPER'I1E.4i;.
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Public Present:
Name
Address
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Jo Larson
Sharon Nickolay
Mike 8: Jo Ann Mulligan
Dick Putnam
Marge Shorba
Al Klingelhutz
8590 Tigua Lane
8500 Tigua
8501 Tigua Circle
2765 CISCO Pt. Rd.
Great Plains Blvd, LIke Susan
8600 Great Plains Blvd.
Hoffman: Chairman Schroers, Commission members. Item Dumber 4 is the conceptual plan
development approval for low, medium and high density homes. 190 units on 62.05 acres...
neighborhood commercial use...again this is a conceptual plan at this time. The location is
east of Highway 101 and north and south at the intersection of West 86th Street. The...kind
of a new area of the city for development proposals. As we travel iou1h on Market Blvd,
leaving City Hall at this location across HighwayS. Travel clown the Dew segment of m
101 and right now you then attach the old segment at this portiOD. But llain the upgrade... to
30
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CITY OF
CHARHASSER
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission ~/
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director /11
FROM:
DATE:
October 20, 1993
SUBJ:
Highway 101 North Trail
Nearly two months have passed since a meetin~f~tween five governing bodies with a stake in
the future of Highway 10 1 took place. On AujU~ 26, 1993, the City of Chanhassen hosted a
meeting between the following agencies: HenPepiQCounty, Carver County, MnDOT, the City
of Eden Prairie, and the City of Chanhassen..;:Vice~hairperson Andrews was in attendance at
the meeting and potentially can share his v~~Wpoint.~th the commission. Some of the main
points I garnered from the meeting include;i;
MnDOT confirmed that they hay~no interest. etaining authority over the highway.
Carver County agreed to be tlt~lead agency in the ort to establish a task force to study
the entire Highway 101 c'dor in Carver County in respect to the road only).
"'
The city would subIllita copy of the feasibility report
allowing themtoiform an opinion as to how much
accommodate a .future:cUP~el)fi.~:tn
Folch d gus~
ith supplemental data to MnDOT,
the trail would be destroyed to
ed memorandum from Charles
om MnDOT.
e,~l:1nical assistance in any efforts
or upgrade the
Eden Prairie expressed little or no .
Their main area of concern would
Prairie.
in actively participating in the trail project.
e crossing points from Chanhassen to Eden
On Monday night, October 18. I presented the Park and Recreation Department's budget requests
to the City Council. In reviewing Fund 410, Park and Trailway Acquisition and Development,
I discussed the lack of funding for the Highway 10 1 trail. I proposed the following scenario:
Park and Recreation Commission
October 20, 1993
Page 2
If we are optimistic and establish a total project cost of $400,000, that cost could be split three
ways: $200,000 in direct assessments, $100,000 in general obligation funds, and $100,000 from
park and trail funds. Make your own assumptions as to the likelihood of this scenario coming
true. These are mine.
Assessments of $200.000: If we divide $200,000 by a guess of 250 homes, the per home cost
is $800. Politically, the City Council took some bumps and bruises over a $760 assessment for
the construction of Minnewashta Parkway and a trail along the road. Would residents accept an
$800 assessment for a trail only?
$100.000 from Park and Trailwav Acauisition and DeveloDment Fund: This allocation would
defmitely dent the bank account. It would also hinder the commission's ability to purchase new
parkland within the city for a period of time. At the current trail fee rate of $200 per home, 500
homes would need to be assessed a trail fee to recoup such an expenditure. Anticipated trail fee
revenues for 1993 are $40,000.
$100.000 in General Obli2ation Funds: I discussed such an allocation with members of the City
Council and city management during the budget meeting I referenced earlier. The general
response received was that $100,000 would be difficult to find in the current budget. The city's
levy limit for 1994 has been set at 6%--a level which will guarantee a zero percent increase in
1994 city taxes (unless of course the value of your home and property increases). This leaves
very little elbow room in the budget, and thus, the members of the City Council present on
Monday night gave little hope to such an allocation. As much as I would like to tell the
commission that we are moving down the road towards construction of the trail in 1994 or even
1995, such is not the case.
If the commission has any suggestions or requests in this regard, please let me know.
Note: Staff will continue to investigate alternative methods of funding, i.e. ISTBA funds, and
will be taking a second look at a potential inner route between neighborhood street plans.
pc: Mayor and City Council
Don Ashworth, City Manager
Charles Folch, City Engineer
Paul Krauss, Planning Director
Jon Horn, BRW
Roger Gustafson, Carver County Engineer
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
Mr. Evan Green
Project Manager
Minnesota Department of Transportation
Waters Edge Building
1500 West County Road B2
Roseville, MN 55113
Re: TII 101 North Leg Trail Project No. 88-22B-6
Dear Evan:
This is a letter confirming the distribution to you of a feasibility study for the proposed
Trunk Highway 101 North Leg Trail Project in Chanhassen, Minnesota for your review and
input. Please review this study as a part of the overall permit acquisition process which the
City of Chanhassen will need to obtain from MnDOT to conitruct this proposed trail project
within the Trunk Highway 101 right-of-way. Once you have had a chance to review this
document, I would suggest that the project engineer from BRW, Todd Hoffman and myself
meet with you and other appropriate MnDOT personnel to go over this document and any
additional design and surveying information that has b~en generated to date. Thank you
for your time and effort in this project. .
Sincerely,
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
Charles D. Folch, P.E.
City Engineer
CDF:ktm
c:
Jon Horn, BRW
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
City Council Administrative Packet (9/13/93)
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PROPOSED 1993 FUNCTION 410 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM
ADOPTED BY THE CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL ON DECEMBER 14, 1992
Bandimere Community Park
Wood Identification Sign
COMPLETED
$ 400.00
Bandimere Hei2hts Park
Swings
ORDERED 10/6/93
$ 1,500.00
Bluff Creek Park
Carver Beach Park
Grills (2)
Picnic Tables (2)
Swimming Buoys & Signage (Mini Beach)
GRILLS ON ORDER, OTHER EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN PURCHASED
$ 400.00
$ 1,300.00
$ 1,500.00.
Carver Beach Plav2found
Bleacher
ORDERED 10/6/93
$ 1,400.00
Chanhassen Estates Mini Park
Chanhassen Hills Park
Half Court Basketball $ 2,500.00
Trees 1,000.00
TREE LOCATIONS ARE STAKED, CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT PENDING
ON BASKETBALL COURT
Chanhassen Pond Park
Wood Park Identification Sign $
Repair Observation Platform
ID SIGN WILL BE MADE THIS WINTER, PLATFORM DOES NOT MERIT
REPLACEMENT
250.00
2,000.00
City Center Park
CUrry Farms Park
Trees $ 500.00
Swing Set $ 1,500.00
TREES ARE INCLUDED IN FALL PROGRAM, SWING SET ORDERED 10/6/93
Greenwood Shores Park ,J
Grill $ 200.00 C
ORDERED 9/21/93
Herman Field Park
Wood Park Identification Sign $ 200.00
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Lake Ann Park
First Aid Supplies $ 400.00
Lifeguard Room Equipment $ 1,500.00
Rescue Board $ 500.00
Freezer $ 400.00
Refrigerator $ 500.00
Microwave $ 300.00
Meau Beams $ 300.00
Building Supplies & Equipment $ 3,000.00
Row Boats (2) $ 1,300.00
Canoes (3) $ 1,200.00
Paddle Boats (2) $ 1,600.00
Life Jackets (20) $ 500.00
Canoe Paddles (10) $ 200.00
Play aks ({j) $ 1,800.00
Play ak-s Paddles (8) $ 200.00 e
Outbeard Metor $ 750.00
Shelter LaRElseaping $ 1,500.00
Bouadary Buoys $ 1,300.00
Contingency $ 1,200.00
Trees $ 1,000.00
STRIKE OUT ITEMS WERE NEVER PURCHASED\COMPLETED
Lake Susan Park
Ballfield Lights $ 65,000.00
PURSUING ACQUISITION WIlli HRA
Meadow Green Park
Bleacher $ 1,400.00
ORDERED 10/6/93
Minnewashta Heiehts Park
North Lotus Lake Park
Trees $ 1,000.00
STAKED FOR INSTALLATION
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Pheasant Hill Park
Power Hill Park
General Improvements; Final Grading, Seeding, Entrance Road
and Parking $ 15,000.00
FINAL GRADING IS UNDERWAY, SEEDING TO FOLLOW DEPENDENT ON
SOIL CONDmONS, ENTRANCE HAS BEEN COMPLETED
Prairie Knoll Park
Rice Marsh Lake Park
South Lotus Lake Park
Sunset Ridge Park
Trees $ 1,000.00
Play Area Expansion $ 14,000.00
TREES WERE PLANTED IN FALL OF 1992, PLAY EQUIPMENT IS HERE
AWAITING INSTALLATION
Other Improvements
Scout Projects $ 1,000.00
NO PROJECTS IN 1993
Contingency $ 9,500.00
To include the addition of a bench(es) on Kerber Boulevard overlooking
Chanhassen Pond Park
BENCHES(PICNIC TABLES) WERE INSTALLED
Fund 410 Reauired Reserves
City Center Park (For the purpose of
matching School District 112
Funds invested in City Center Park!
Chanhassen Elementary School Playground)
NO ACTION
$ 8,000.00
TOTAL
$150,000.00
NOTE: All function 410 expenditures are subiect to sales tax. tbe eft'ect of wbicb will be
a loss in purcbasine: capital of approximately $9.750 in 1993.
3
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
0d-
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM: Dawn Lemme, Program Specialist \)~ .
DATE: October 20, 1993
SUBJECT: Ioint Youth Commission/Park and Recreation Commission
Some time ago, it was mentioned by the Park and Recreation Commission that they were
interested in finding out what types of activitie d program ideas the youth in this area (both
school districts) would like to see run by the .. assen Park and Recreation Department.
One way of doing that, which was talked ab ~. to invite the youth commissions to come
and talk with Park and Recreation Commis ners ~.a fall meeting. Currently, I have spoken
with Ieanne Strauss of School District 112 .~. get her 'oughts on the matter. Ms. Strauss works
with the Youth Commission and thougijt it was alreat idea. I will also be contacting
Minnetonka School District 276 to see gthey have a sfpilar youth commission.
If this discussion were to take placeafthe November parttfIld Recreation Commission meeting,
what would you like to see cover~1
What types of questions d()yo\l have specifically?
Would this take placepri.ortoor.d1.Uing_~
I will be lookin
up. Thank you.
on this idea in order to go
mcts and set this
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Volunteer Programs
Department of Natural Resources
Ochbry5; 1'1f!
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Chanhassen Park & Recreation Presents
HALL.WEEN
PARTY & HAYRIDE
Saturday, October 30,1993
6:00-8:00 p.m.
Chanhassen Elementary School
Ages: Children 5th Grade and under
TRICK;
TREAT
OR
Choose between the Evil Witch's Dark and Mysterious Passage
or the FriendlyWitch'sTrail of Good Natured Ghosts. Each tour includes a variety
of costumed characters from which you collect your trick-or-treats.
After trick-or-treating, join in the fun ,on the playground behind
the school. A hay wagon pulled by horses will be giving rides for
the whole family. Hot chocolate and treats for the children and
their parents will be served.
This event is sponsored by the Chanhassen Parks and Recreation .'
Department and Chanhassen area businesses. Register at Chanhassen City Hall
V until noon on October 29. Sorry, no late registrations accepted. A fee of $2.00
covers all activities.
..--------------------------------------.
~ HALLOr::~:~~~~g~AYRIDE ~ !
Code': YHAL93 10 Age: Fee: '2 . 0 0 I
Code': YHAL9310 Age: Fee: '2.00 I
Code': YHAL93 10 Age: Fee: '2. 0 0 I
Code': YHAL93 10 Age: Fee: '2. 0 0 I
I
I
I
I
Participant's Name
Parent/Guardian Name:
Address:
Phone:
City:
Altemative PhoneIName:
Zip:
.--------------------------------------.
. .
THE CHANHASSEN PARKS AND RECREATION
DEPARTMENT APPRECIATES THE SUPPORT OF THESE e
AREA BUSINESSES AND VOLUNTEERS DURING THE
ANNUAL HALLOWEEN PARTY:
CORPORATE BUSINESS SPONSORS INDIVIDUAL
GOLD
Instant Web CompanIes
Lundgren Sros.
SILVER
Rosemount, Inc.
GOLD
Chanhassen American
legIon Post #580
ChanhassenSo~"n~s
Chanhassen State Sonic.
McDonalds
Festival Foods
GOLD
Chon Child
Development Center
HaIr for Guys & Dolls
CONTRIBUTING
Empak, Inc.
Redmond Products
SILVER
Emerson EMC
CONTRIBUTING
Eden Prairie Horsemen
Saddle Oub
Rodenz Accounting Sel'Yices
BRONZE
Acroloop Motion Control Systems, Americana Community Bank,
HoIasel< Greenhouses, Inc., Lotus Garden Center, PMT
Moore Sign & Letter, Roberts Automatic Inc.
e
CONTRIBUTING
Aagard West, Adventure Balloons, Anh Le Oriental Cuisine, Automated 8uHding Components,
Brown's Amoco, Center Drug, Chanhassen Bait & Tackle, Chanhassen American Legion Auxiliary Post #580,
O1anhassen Inn, O1anhassen Lawn & Sports, O1anhassen Medical Center, O1anhassen Post Office, Domino's
Pizza, Glenrose Floral, J & R Radiator, J. Scotty &ilders, Merit Heating, Merlin's Ace Hardware, Subway .
If you would like to become a sponsor of
C~anhassen's Special Events please call 937.1900. .
e
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Chanhassen Senior Center
NE S
~temberfest Celebration A Success
Thank you. . . . . .Thank you. . . . . . Thank you. . . . . . .To all Seniors involved
in the Septemberfest Celebration. All of you who participated in the Fanners
Market, Bake Sale, Craft Sale or CHAN-o-laires in any way are what makes an
event like this a success. The combined net revenue from these activities was over
$500.00, which will go back into the Senior Center in order to continue buying
supplies such as coffee, cards, bingo equipment, chorus music and more!
Septemberfest was fun and friendships were developed and strengthened. Thanks
Again! -SENIOR COORDINATOR
Mark Your Calenders
October 19 .................................. Fall Mystery liip
November 3 .......................... Old Log Theatre liip
November 6 ........................................ Taste of Italy
December 4 ....................................... Casino Night
December 11..................................... Holiday Party
December 14 ...................... Christmas Lights Tour
Pre-registration Required
Name
Address
Oty
Zip
Suggestions for the Chanhassen Senior Center
Su~estions
If you have any suggestions for activities or classea
that you would like to see offered, please let us
know on the form below or tell us in person at the
Chanhassen Senior Center. We're always open to
New Ideas!
We are also trying to update our mailing list, please
help us in that process. Thank you!
Phone
Please take me off the
mmHngli&tD
Please either mail or drop off this form to:
Chanhassen Senior Center, 690 Coulter Drive. Chanhassen, MN 55311
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Singer Hause. 192 Ch8rIes Avenue
St. Peul. Minnesota 55103
612-222-0206
MEMORANDUM
TO: Twin City Public Officials Concerned about Mosquito Control
FROM: Dick Anderson, Scientific Chair, SPRP
John Genereux, Administrative Chair, SPRP
e
DATE: October 17, 1993
SUBJECT: Joint TABlSPRP Meeting
The Scientific Peer Review Panel (SPRP) will be hosting a joint meeting with the Technical
Advisory Board (TAB) of the Metropolitan Mosquito Control District (MMCD) at 1:00 P. M.
on October 29, 1993. The meeting will be held at the Metropolitan Mosquito Control District
headquarters at 2099 University Avenue in St. Paul.
The SPRP is an independent group of biological scientists organized by the MMCD, with
participation by environmental groups, to study the biological effects of mosquito control
materials. The SPRP has received a budget of between $200,000 and $240,000 per year
since 1987. This budget has been spent on the research topics in the enclosed list.
The TAB is a group of state and regional agency staff, University of Minnesota staff, and
interested members of the public. This group meets once annually to review the overall
MMCD program and to make recommendations to the MMCD Board of Commissioners.
One of the 1986 recommendations of the TAB in 1986 was the establishment of the SPRP.
In May, 1993, the SPRP publiShed an Interim Report of Findings and submitted this
report, along with cOpies of all individual project final reports, to the Minnesota
Environmental Quality Board Copies of this Interim Report are available on request from
the MMCD at 645-9149; copies will also be available at the October 29 meeting. The
SPRP expects to complete a final report in 1995.
The purpose of the qctober 29 meeting is twof~ld:
1. To review the accomplishments and current status of the SPRP research program,
as contained in the May, 1993 Interim Report to the Minnesota Environmental
Quality Board.
e
2. To discuss remaining research issues which may not have been covered in the
research program to date.
Dr. Richard Anderson, the Scientific Chair of the SPRP, will chair this meeting, and will
ask SPRP members to assist him in discussing specific findings and future research. We
have also invited field research contractors to be present to discuss their findings and their
significance.
We welcome your participation in the meeting and in raising issues to the SPRP for their
consideration. Please call John Genereux, (612) 222-2206, or Dr. Anderson, (1-218) 720-
5616, with any questions.
RECEIVED
OCT 1 9 1993
John and Michele Genereux
research consuIt8nts
in the 80CieI sciences
CITY OF Ch""l..nl"\~~t.N
qr.. ':"~.
e Overall Research Accomplishments by the SPRP. 1987-1992
The summary table below lists the research that has been accomplished to date
in each category of SPRP research: Laboratory Studies, Historical Sites
Review, and Field Experiments.
I. Laboratory Studies
Research Project/Author
Comparison of Mosquitos (Aedes aegypti ) and
Chironomids (Paratanytarus) in their reaction to
Bti: Brooke et al University of Wisconsin,
Superior, Wisconsin.
Acute and Life Cycle Laboratory Test of the
Impact of Methoprene on the Cladoceran
Daphnia pulex: Brooke et ai, University of
Wisconsin, Superior, Wisconsin
Feeding Study of Crayfish Fed Bti-killed
mosquitos: Brooke et ai, University of
Wisconsin, Superior, Wisconsin
e
Acute and Chronic Laboratory Test of the Impact
of Methoprene on the Cladocerans Daphnia
pulex and Daphnia magna , on the Copepod
Diaptomus oregoninsis and Macrocyclops
fuscsus. and the Amphipod Hya/ella:: Claude
Fortin, University of Guelph, Ontario
Effect of Labo~atory Concentrations of Bti and
Methoprene on Frogs, Toads, and
Salamanders: Brooke et al at the University of
Wisconsin at Superior; LeClair and Charpentier
at the University of Quebec, Tres Rivieres,
Canada
e
Status
Completed (See Page .13 of
SPRP Interim Report)
Completed (See Page 15 of
SPRP Interim Report)
Completed (See Page16 of
SPRP Interim Report)
Completed (See Page 17 of
SPRP Interim Report)
Completed (See Page 14 of
SPRP Interim Report) .
II. Historical Studies e
Research Project/Author Status
Effects of Historical Treatment of Bti and Completed (See Page 19 of
Methoprene, in Selected Wetlands, on SPRP Interim Report)
Invertebrate Organisms and Reel-winged
Blackbirds: Natural Resources Research
Institute, Duluth Minnesota.
Effect of Historical Treatments on Songbird Completed, with more
Populations: Michael DeJong, University of St. statistical analyses still to
Thomas, St. Paul, Minnesota come. (See Page 21 of SPRP
Interim Report)
III. Field Experiments with Mosquito
Control Materials
Research. Projectl Author Status
Effects of Methoprene and Bti (Bacillus Completed (See Page 23 of
thuringiensis var. israelensis) on Non-target SPRP Interim Report)
Invertebrates: A Divided Pond Study: Natural e
Resources Research Institute, Duluth
Minnesota.
Long Term Evaluation of the Effects of 67% Completed (See Page 25
Methoprene and Bti on 26 Mosquito Breeding of SPRP Interim Report)
Sites in Wright County: Natural Resources .
Research Institute, Duluth Minnesota.
Effect of Methoprene Treatments in Wetlands on Completed, but with some
Mallard Duckling Growth and Development: Dr. ambiguous results; poSSible
James Cooper et ai, Forestry Department, future research still to be done.
University of Minnesota (See Page29 of SPRP Interim
Report)
e
.
.
.
STATE OF MINNESOTA
COUNTY OF HENNEPIN
( ~, II I ,......[i~' y. .f<j
~f'\ DISTRIcrCOURT
FOURTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
Personal Injury
File No.
Debra Zak, individually and as parent and
guardian of minor Patrick Thompson,
Plaintiff,
~
SUMMONS
v.
City of Chanhassen and Tonka Little League,
Defendants.
THE STATE OF MINNESOTA TO THE ABOVE-NAMED DFFENDANTS:
You are hereby summoned and required to serve on the attorney for the plaintiffs an
Answer to the Complaint which is herewith served on you within twenty (20) liays after the service
e of the Summons on you, exclusive of the day of service.
If you fail to do so, judgment by default will be taken against you f~ the relief demanded
in the Complaint.
STRIFERT LAW FIRM
~
By: c..AJ . ~
William. ert (#152717)
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
10 South Fifth Street, #700
Minneapolis, MN 55402
(612) 334-3320
r., ~ r. r. ,\! "" f"l.
t'~ ~_i f,~ r,~ ~ i~~ ,i'
e
1393
c.> Ii ui' .....,'
. \" 1; .,,:),:,~ ;',
LJt",~ ft.' .' j) C' t'& II I7!5.
4'hi i?~j.fr /7tu/Jn.... lo/;2/~.J
STATE OF MINNESOTA
COUNTY OF HENNEPIN
DISTRICT COURT
FOURTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
Personal Injury
.
-.
File No.
Debra Zak, individually and as parent and
guardian of minor Patrick Thompson,
Plaintiffs,
COMPLAINT
v.
City of Chanhassen and Tonka Little League,
Defendants.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Plaintiffs, for their cause of action, state and allege:
1 . On June 19, 1992, at Lake Ann Field in the City of Chanhassen, County of
Hennepin, State of Minnesota, Patrick Thompson sustained a fractured left ankle while running
across fIrst base during a South Tonka Little League baseball game.
2. Patrick Thompson's injuies were the result of the negligence and other fault of the
defendants and each of them for failing to provide a safe first base which conforms to the Little
League Baseball Operating Manual.
3. As a result of the incident, minor plaintiff Patrick Thompson sustained permanent
injuries to his person and, on attaining majority, will incur medical expenses and suffer impairment
of earning capacity and loss of earnings; as a result of injuries to Patrick Thompson, plaintiff Debra
Zak has and will incur medical expenses; all to their damage in a sum greater than $50,000.00.
e
WHEREFORE, plaintiff prays judgment against defendants, and each of them, for
reasonable damages in a sum greater than Fifty Thousand ($50,000.00) Dollars, together with
costs and disbursements.
e
.
.
.
e
e
STRIFERT LAW FIRM
..-:;
By: ..,<J~
WHHam -. . ert (#152717)
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
10 South Fifth Street, #700 .
Minneapolis, MN 55402
(612) 334-3320
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
The undersigned acknowleges that costs, disbursements, and reasonable attorney and
witness fees may be awarded pursuant to Minn. Stat. 1549.21, subd. 2 to the party against whom
the allegations are asserted in this complaint.
~-$J
---
Nominee Information
Position nominated: East Metro
Representative
Name: Mary Saarion
Title: Director
Employer: City of Mounds View
MRP A iDvolvemeDt: Number of membership years: 16
PuitioDl lIeld (Committees, SectiODS, Offices):
Rec1eatiOD SectiOD Chair, East Metro Board
Rcpreseatative, IPD Co-Chair, Conference Committees,
Keeping Up Committee Chair. Continuiag Education
Committee and various committees for workshops and
events.
Pr.fessional work experience iD RecreatioD and Park
field: I worleed during my uDdergraduatc years for the
City of Columbia Heights and all of my graduate and
professional years for the City of Mounds View.
Otller volunteer professioDal associatioa/commuDity
involvement: Sunday School teacher for over 12 years;
choir member; church Board of Education member and
chair; AffUiation with Sons of Norway orpnization.
EducatioD and special trainiDc: BS degree from the
University of Minnesota in Leisure Studies, Recreation,
and Parks Administration. I have taken a number of
additional cowses for my own development which are
unrelated to my advanced degree.
WIly are you interested iD servinc in tile above
position? We are all interested in keeping our
professional Association as viable as possible and for this
reason I wish to lend whatever service is neceSS8l)' to
assist in its vitality.
WIlat are tile issues to be addressed by tile Board of
Directors and tile MRP A membership durinC your
term of office, if elected, as well as iD tile lonc term?
Issues ioclude legislative influence and rmancial abilities
to be a strong. influential organization and have good
rapport with the public, legislators, and business and
community leaders - - advocating our opportunity to offer
and provide a piece of the pie forpcople's weD being and
quality of life.
*****
Position nominated: West Metro
Representative
Name: Rick Sirno, CLP
Title: Recreation Supervisor
Employer: City of Golden Valley
MRP A iDvolvement: Number of membership years: 8
Positions lIeld (Committees, Sections, Offices): 1994
State Confereoce Co-Cbair; 1993 State Conference
Program Co-Cbair; 1993 Professional DevelopmeDt/
Continuing Education Committee; 1990-91 Programming
Section Steering Committee Chair; 1988-92 Programming
Section Steering Committee.
Professional work experience in Recreation and Park
field: Recreation Supervisor, Golden Valley Park &:
Recreation; Assistant Recreation Supervisor, Golden ...
Valley Park &: Recreation; Youth Athletic Coordinator, .,
Golden Valley Parle &: Recreation.
Other voluDteer professional associatioa/commuDity
involvement: MRPF; Hopkins School District Athletic
Advisory Board.
Education and special trainiDc: Masten of Education,
Recreation AdmiDistJatio.n &: Leisure Services, Univenity
of Minnesota, 1991; Bachelor. of Scieoce, University of
Minnesota, 1984.
WIly are you interested iD serviDC in the above
position? I feel it is important for all leisure service
professionals to be directly involved in the operation and
continued development of the professional association. I
would look forward to the opportunity of serving on the
MRP A Board of Directors as a West Metro
Representative.
Wbat are tile issues to be addressed by tile Board of
Directors and tile MRP A membership duriDC your
term of office, if elected, as weD as ill tile lonc term?
During a possible term as a Board member, I would like to
see a continued effort in the development of afJ'lIiations
and partnerships with other organizations. In addition, I
would like to see continued support for sections and
committees to develop programs, ovence operations,
iocreasc educational opportunities, generate revenue,
implement changes, and advance systematic planning. A
strong continued effort to attract new members, while A
sustaining current affiliates, is vital to the future of the .,
organization. It is also important to further iocrease
support for the RSC and the MRP A staff to maintain the
high level of quality services provided to our professionals
and consumers. Utilizing current professional resources
within the field, the Board can advance many important
issues iocluding ethics, cultural diversity, r1D8llCial
stability, delivery of service, and strategic planning.
*
Position nominated: West
Representative
Name: Todd Hoffman, CLP
Title: Park & Recreation Direct
m loyer: City of Chanh
MRP A involvement: om r 0 membelSbip years: 8
Positions lIeld (Committees, Sections, Omces): Hall of
Ideas Chair, 1991; Conference Program Committee, 1993;
Student Section, 1986; Programming Section, 1987 - 90;
Administrative Section, 1990 - 93; ParkslFacility
Operations Section volunteer.
Professional work experience in Recreation and Park
field: 1990 - Present, Park and Recreation Director, City e
of Cbanbassen; 1987 . 1990, Recreation Supervisor, City
of Cbanbassen; 1986, AdministJative Intern, Hennepin
Parks, Southern Division.. .
Continued on page 4
. Page 3-
,:,''!l:''"f, ~
Nominee Information
.
Other yolunteer professioDal associatioa/community
iDyolyement: NRPA, MRPF, Certified NYSCA Clinician,
ChanhAC5en Chamber of Commerce Board Member,
Member of Capable Partners For Sportsmen and
Sportswomen.
EducatioD and special traininc: Mankato State
Uniyersity, Bachelor of Science, Recreation, Parks, and
Leisure Services; Hamline University, enrolled in Masters
of Public Administration curriculum; NRP A, Certified
Leisure Professional.
Why are you interested in serville in the aboye
POSitiOD? Serving on the MRPA Board would provide me
the opportunity to become part of the leadership team
working towards the betterment ofMRP A 1 believe
MRP A is a vital component of our profession statewide.
The AssociatioD represents members in additioD to
DOnmembers who are working in or are associated with the
field of parks, recreatioD and leisure services. The
capacities ofMRPA are solidly footed and the Association
is lookiDg towards the future which promises new and
expanding opportunities. 1 attended my first MRP A
Annual Conference in Duluth, Minnesota. The experience
which greeted me secured my COmmitmeDt to the Park and
Recreation Profession. 1 would like to play a part in
ensuring that these kinds of inspirations continue to be a
part of MRP A
What are the issues to be addressed by the Board of
Directors aDd the MRP A membership duriDI your
term of office, if elected, as well as iD the 10DC term?
· The assurance of stability and growth throughout this
period of transition.
· Bolstering the reputatioD ofMRPA as a recognizable
contributor to the quality of life iD Minnesota.
· The continuatiOD of 10Dg mnge planniDg in the
Association.
· To ensure that all Sections and Committees receive all
the support services they desire.
· To further the effectiveness 'of MRP A in representing
its members.
· To rcalize growth in the areas of membership and
membership services.
-
*****
e
Position nominated: West Metro
Representative
Name: Michael P. Schmidt, CLP
Title: Director, Park Operations
Employer: Minneapolis Park & Recreation
Board
MRP A inyolvemeDt: Number of membership years: IS
Positions held (Committees, Sections, Omces):
Conference Committee AN Chair - mid 80's; Park and
Natural Resources SeCtiOD member.
ProfessioDal work experience iD RetreatioD aDd Park
field: State of Minnesota Department of Natural
Resources Lake Sbetek, Carley, Wbitewater and Scenic
State Parks, 1973 -77; Wright County Park Administrator,
1977 - 80; Minneapolis Park cl RecreatioD Board
Operations Planner, 1980-90; Director, Park Operations,
1990 - Present.
Other yoluDteer professioDal associatioa/community
iDyolvemeDt: Member and Church Treasurer of
Res~tioD Lutbemn Church, Monticello; Life member
of University of Minnesota AlumDi AssociatioD aad
member of its Board of Directors; NRP A, 15 years;
International Personnel MaDagemeDl AssociatiOD member.
EducatioD aDd special traiDiDC: 1973 graduate of the
University of Minnesota; 1983 Park PlanDingaad
Maintenance School Graduate; 1987 Executive
Development Program for RecrcatiOD aDd Park
Professionals Graduate; aumerous classes, conferences and
seminars to maintain my professional CODtinuing
education.
Why are you interested ill servillC"iD the above
positioD? The MRPA is importaDt to me, aDd is importaDt
to the Park cl RecreatioD profession. Believing in an
organization, its goals aad role, means that as an
individual, you support it aad wolk with it ID the past, 1
have beeD involved with MRP A conferences aDd seminars,
as well as committee work with the Parks &: Natural
Resources Section, but 1 have DeVer served in a leadership
role. At this point in my life, 1 have time to serve the
members of the West Metro RegiOD OD the MRPA Board,
and 1 have the background, experience, aDd training
Deeded to be an effective Board of Directors member.
What are the issues to be addressed by the Board of
Directors and the MRP A membership duriDC your
term of office, if elected, as well as ill the 10DI term?
The issues have been identified by the current and
p~vious Presidents and BoaIds: Membership growth,
financial growth, strategic planning, and membership
service. I expect these will continue as issues into the
future, as well as an oDgoing process of program
evaluation and modificatioD to changing conditions and
demands.
*****
-Page4-
Law enforcement
Beginning in 1994, lauderdale will
receive 16 hours of police protection
each day from the city ofSt. Anthony.
Lauderdale will pay St Anthony a base
amount ofS158,000 per year plus annual
increases for the three years of the
contract. St Anthony will hire two
additional officers and buy a new squad
car, which Lauderdale will pay for.
RoseWle has provided contract law
enforcement services to Lauderdale (as
well as the Falcon Heights), and will
continue to do so through 1993.
Add Maplewood to the list of cities that
have established a police bicycle patrol.
At least 16 city police officers have
volunteered to participate in the pro-
gram, and the city has bought four new
bikes. The patrol made its debut at the
Ramsey County Fair inJuly. After the fair,
the officers became visible in parks, trails,
residential areas, and business districts.
A joint venture between Hennepin
County and Maple Grove has resulted in
a new shooting range in Maple Grove. In
1991, the city decided it needed to move
its present shooting range away from a
gravel pit The county was also in need of
new facilities, and the two governments
joined forces to meet the needs of both
departments. Maple Grove contributed
$650,000 to the project and the county
twice that amount. The 16,300 square
foot bui .
une. It is bigger and better
the city could have built on its own.
Parks and recreation
89 article in Good Huusekeeping
magazine all town in Kansas
served as the inspiration for e Sit}'
Walk of Pride. It's a sidewalk located in a
city park, made up of personalized bricks
that residents, former residents, busi-
nesses, and even politicians have pur-
chased. The cost of a brick varies from
$10 to $50, depending on what the donor
wants painted and lettered on it Each
brick has several coats of sealer protecting
it, and must receive a new coat every
spring. So far, the project has sold nearly
400 bricks. The city anticipates a new
surge of sales in 1995, when the
community's second all-school reunion
takes place.
A new (actually, a used) foot bridge
now arches over the Sand Hill River in
Ferdie, connecting trails on either side of
the river. It was purchased at a modest
cost ($1,000) in southern Minnesota,
transported to Fertile on a hay truck, and
installed by group of resourceful vo]un-
teers who had to use considerable
ingenuity and combat hordes of mosqui-
toes to get it in place.
White Bear Lake is using an $80,000
donation from the local Lions Club to
build a picnic pavilion, which will
accommodate 200 people and will have a
kitchen with serving area, a fireplace, and
restrooms. The city will rent it out for a
variety of social gatherings and meetings.
The construction contract for the
pavilion totals $95,400.
Plans for a new nature arboretum are
progressing in Breckenridge. The city is
introducing 32 new species of trees to the
park, including a bed of flowering trees
and a bed of fruit trees. A walking trail at
the arboretum is already completed.
'"The Woodworks" is taking form in
Mankato. That's the name given to the
city's new skateboard park, which will be a
gathering place for skateboarders,
rollerbladers, bikers, and others. The
park will feature various pieces of state-<)f.
the-art equipment, much of it chosen by
the young people who will be its prime
users. Adult volunteers will provide
supervision. Youths using the park must
pledge to remain drug free and alcohol
free.
Transportation
The cities of Richfield, Minnetonka,
Edina, Eden Prairie, and Bloomington
are continuing work on drafting a joint
traffic demand management ordinance
duce congestion on Interstate
Highw '494, and mitigate problems
during th eeway's reconstruction over
the next sev ral years. Cities in California
and other s tes are already enforcing
similar mances. The ordinance. when
mpiled, will probably require employ-
ers within the cities to develop alternative
commuting programs by encouraging
van and carpooling, use of alternate
routes, flexible work schedules, use of
mass transit, bicycling or waIking to work,
working at home. te]ecommunicating via
computers, and any other technique that
would discourage use of single occupancy
automobiles. especially during rush
hours. The cities won't have a final
version of the ordinance ready for quite
some time-l994 at the earliest
Wastewater treatment
The U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency has chosen Wdbnar's treatment
plant as winner of an award of excellence
for operation and maintenance. EPA
made its choice from a group of cities of
similar size throughout Wisconsin,
Illinois, Ohio. Indiana, Michigan. and
Minnesota. The award places Wdlmar in
... ---'~-
,,< '
":' --'".,,~...z.:.;...~.v::......-.:~~~~- W~-
....-.,.. .~
the running for being the best run facility
in the nation in its size and treatment
category. EPA will be naming the
national winner this fall.
.
i
I
I
Electric utilities
Granite Fal]s has experienced a
growing problem with pelicans colliding
with power lines below the municipal
dam, resulting in pelican deaths and
numerous costly power outages. The city
is trying to remedy the problem by
stringing a reflective cable outfitted with
large globes to get the pelicans' attention
and keep them away from the power
lines. The number of pelican~ in the area
has increased sharply over the past
decade or so, probably because of the
reduction in use of dangerous pesticides
such as DDT. The birds attract a lot of
spectators around the dam, and all the
action probably II\akes the birds edgy and
more likely to fly into the wires. They
congregate around the dam because food
is readily available there.
Cable television
Elbow Lake is selling its municipal
cable system to the Runestone Te]ephone
Company. The city's rival cable operator
has contested the sale, and thus it is
taking longer than anticipated for the
Federal Communications Commission to
approve it
_.
People
Jim Hill has retired as Fridley's public
safety director. His law enforcement
career spans 37 years, the last 21 years
with Fridley. He is known nationally as a
consultant in law enforcement matters, a
pursuit he intends to continue after his
retirement
St. Louis Park's finance director,
Harlan Syverson. has retired after 34
years of service to the city.
Ron Trafas retired on August 31. from
30 years of service in the wastewater
department for the city of Little Falls.
The city commended him for his loyal
service.
Two officials from Vddng have retired.
Uoyd Ranum served on the council for
27 years. first as a counci]member and
most recently as mayor. Myrtle Kagg, also
a long-time member of the council,
retired due to illness.
Raymond Johnson retired this summer
after 26 years as a Prior Lake city
employee.
In New Prague. Albert Terwedo has
resigned from the street department He
began working for the city about 22 years
ago. asa police officer. [. .
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MH~',ESOT.t.. CITIES; OOOE ~ c . ~,_
.
Date:
To:
From:
Re:
YOUTH COl\'IMISSION
Carver, Carver Count)., Chanhassen, Chaska, Victoria, ISD 112, & Community Ed
110600 Village Road Chaska MN 55318 368-3686
October 14, 1993
Youth Commission Agency Representatives:
Shirley Broers, City of Chaska
Deb Wagner, Carver County Commissioners
Shirley Karls, City of Victoria
Todd Hoffman, City ofChanhassen
Tom Griep, City of Carver
Marjory Adams, District 112 School Board
Greg Shank, District 112 Community Education Adv. Council
Jeanne Straus, District 112 Community Resource Coordinator
Change in YC November Meeting Date
Also, upcoming workshops
Due to a re-scheduling of a high school concert, the next Youth Commission meeting has
been changed to November 2 at Jonathan Elementary Teachers' Lounge. The meeting will
begin at 7 pm.
e
Enclosed is som~ information on upcoming workshops which City Councils, the County
Commissioners, the School Board and the Advisory Council may be interested in. The
November 5th Service-Learning Training is being conducted by nationally recognized
trainers in the community service area. The cost is only $10 and will be held at the
University of St. Thomas Education Center on Hazeltine Blvd. Please make copies of the
enclosed information and distribute to your respective members. If you have any
questions about any of the enclosed information, please feel free to call me at 368-3686.
Remember the Spaghetti Dinner is coming up on October 26 at the Chaska Community
Center. The Chanhassen Choralaires will entertain us after supper. The youth members of
the Commission will make some brief presentations and then involve the adult guests in a
dialogue. They look forward to a very rewarding evening. See you then!
I
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~11J\~cSOTA EXTENSION SERVICE
UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA
CARVER COUNTY
Carver County Extension Office
609 W First St
Waconia MN 55387.1204
(612) 448-3435. 442-4496. 446-1722
FAX: (612) 442-4497
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"Learning to Lead" Youth Leader,ship Conference
We invite you to send a team of youth with an adult advisor to the "Learning to Lead"
Youth Leadership Conference on November 6 & 7 at the Radisson South Hotel,
Bloomington. This two day conference will equip youth with leadership skills to effective(v
work on a' team project. The team project is up to the team. Developing a plan of action for
their project is pan of the conference.
Two or more youth in 7th-12th grade can make up a team. Teums may be from church
youth groups, confilmation classeJ~ yuwh organizations, or schools. See the enclosed
brochure for details.
.
Planning the conference were a team of youth and adults representing schools, community
educaTion, 4-H and Extension Services from Carver, Sibley and Scott Counties. For more
infonnation, contact Laurel at the Carver County Extension Office.
Sincere(v,
__-- .") ti.. )
;/ '~y:. ,:i ;.,/-f'\J(4..,:CL.-J/I...d..CJ/'J
Laurel Swanson
Extension Educator
Enclosure: Brochure
c:\4h\lead\lrnled.inv e
UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, AND MINNESOTA COUNTIES COOPERATING
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Pl,ase join us for a day of SERVICE-LEARNING TRAINING
Friday, November 5, 1993 - 8:30 to 3:30 p.m.
. Registration: 8:0o-8~30
at.the Chaska Education Center, 1107 Hazeltine, Suite 200, Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska Education. Center
. .
.uNIVERsITY OF ST. THOMAS
1107 Hazeltine Blvd.'
C~aska, JMN
WHAT IS ~SERVICE..LEARNINGHl
: .. Fi1lh-grade students devtlloping and lNlintaining a community bird sanctuAJy while studying
: .geogJPphy and biology. : . . .
· MUidle school English as a Second Language students applying their Ja~guage and natural
histoaty skills as they create hilingual signs lor ~ regional park.
..High ~l muientt; honing geometry and conslruc:tio'n SkUJ6 as they constiuct planters lor
scnio,s Jiving in a high-rise ..
WHAT WIlL PARTICIPANllS GAIN FROM THE TRAINING?
· praICtica.l strategies to tak, service-Ieaming back to the classroom
· an llnderstanding 01 basiClservic:e-leaming concepts, rationale and educational goals
· an ondersta nd ing of how 10 c:onnoct service activities to curricular instruction
.- linlhges between service-learning and work-based learning
lleachcrs, . Community Educators, Young People and Administrators WELCOME!
(Tentati"e plans include a followrup workshop focusing on young people and
, community agencie~;) .
sponsored by:
The NatiQnat Youth Leadership Council (NYLC),
Minnesota Department of Education,
Carver/Scott Community Education Consortium
and Iden Prairie Conununity Education
Tral{\erS .traine<<:f by Pamela and Jame~ Toole,.Co-Directors, NYLC Training Dept.
RSV~ to Dorothy Poppitz.: 368-8805
Carver/Scott Education Coopera~ive, 401 East 4th Street, Chasb, MN 55218
Registration DeadJin~ Friday, October 29,1993 :
Questions? Call your local Community Education Director Bt,'i- :3 &~o Dte
::r e.a Y\ V1 ~ ~-r t"~ LA- So S "" i' - ~ {, fiP
REGISTER }JOW! Because this wor,kshop is funded through the Commission on
NatIonal and Community Sertiice, registration is limited.
cur HERE 'FOR REGISTRATION FORM
N ar.ne: .
Position:
School D~t:
$10 registration fee
enclosed
(Note: Save map on back of page)
-, r'
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Minutes from the
Youth Commission Meeting r: ~. : ~~ .
October 5, 1993
-'". ..
Jonathan Elementary Teachen' Lounge - -, . 199'0{
The meeting was brought to order at 7:15 pm by Chairperson Natalie Rossini. en i' '..1;- v,.,
Attendance was taken using the new form. Those pr~nt included Phyllis Lindstrand,
Carly Sorscher, Farrah Merchant, Lori Wellens, LeeAnn Olinger, Mike Fahey, Jeanne
Straus, Rich Lambert, SusanHurm and Natalie Rossini. Not present included Charles
Lawler, Louise Lehner, Molly DeBower, and Danielle Mannix.
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Minutes from the September 7, 1993 meeting were discussed. Rich Lambert indicated a
correction should be made. The third page, paragraph three reads "The question was
raised about the status of the Teen Center. Youth would be interested in sponsoring a
Teen Center." It should read that the YC would be interested in hosting a special event
such as a dance at the Teen Center. With that correction, Fahey motionedlHurm
seconded. The motion passed.
A draft of the new attendance post card was presented by Lori Wellens. With input from
Commission members the second draft reads as fonows:
"Dear Youth Commission Member,
According to our records, you have missed two consecutive meetings.
Please keep in mind that according to the Bylaws, three consecutive
absences places members in a position which makes them subject for
removal from the Youth Commission. We want and need your help
and input! Please attend the next meeting. If the monthly meeting is
scheduled so that it is impossible for you to attend, please notify
Chairperson Rossini at 474-1740.
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Thank you for your cooperation."
Additional suggestions for the post card are welcome until October 26. Please call
Natalie Rossini or Lori Wellens with any changes.
Rossini updated the Commission on publicity work done at the high school. She made
several posters which are displayed at the high school. Work will continue on that project.
Farrah Merchant brought the matter of newspaper articles on the eight values to the
journalism class. The articles win be written by journalism students. They win be looking
for ways to identify people who exhibit one or more of the eight values which include
citizenship, environmentalism, generosity, human worth & dignity, integrity, learning,
respect for others, and responsibility. Articles will be in the school and three local
newspapers.
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Natalie Rossini discussed a request from middle school teacher, Arlene Bomer to have
high school students come into the middle school to talk about self-esteem. She will
follow up on this matter.
There is an opportunity for youth to help at one of the Loaves & Fishes sites on October
14th. Natalie's church is Chanhassen is helping that night. If you or someone you know is
interested in helping out on the 14th, please caD Natalie ASAP. 474-1~40
Lori Wellens talked with an official from the Loaves & Fishes organization to find out
when a group of youth could come and find out first band what it's like to go through the
experience of accepting a free meal. The Commission asked Lori to check out two
different dates: November 4 and November 11. Lori will call and get that date setup.
Jeanne S gave a brief explanation ofa request received from United Way. United Way
would like to conduct a needs assessment along with other groups from the District 112
area. A meeting will tentatively be held on October 19 at 2:00 pm in the Career Resource
Center at the high school. It is hoped that representatives from the City Councils
(including Chamber of Commerces), the County Commissioners, Community Education,
District 112, and the high school youth will be in attendance at that meeting. Please let
Jeanne know if you plan to attend.
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Update on the spaghetti dinner -
RSVP's must be obtained from those who were invited by October 19. The
following individuals will call for those RSVP's.
Mike Fahey - County Commissioners
Farrah Merchant - Victoria City Council
LeeAnn Olinger & Rich Lambert - Community Ed Adv. Council
Lori Wellens - Carver City Council
Carly Sorscher - School Board
Phyllis Lindstrand - Chaska City Council
Natalie Rossini & Susan Hurm - Cbanhassen City Council
Jeanne will send out lists which include phone numbers of those who were invited.
The Community Room and kitchen in the Chaska Community Center has been reserved.
All YC members are asked to be there at 5:15 pm. Supper will be served promptly at 7
pm. Youth members will make presentations on current youth issues. Adults will be
asked for their input in small focus groups. Focus groups will be formed via color coded
name tags ensuring good representation in each group.
The Chanhassen Senior Chorus has asked to sing at the spaghetti dinner. It was agreed
that they should be invited to sing at 7 pm. Dawn Lemme with the Chanhassen Senior
Group will be notified of the invitation.
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The service directory was discussed. Susan Burm & Natalie Rossini have been very
busy in Chanhassen. They brought in approximately 7 - 10 new volunteer opportunities.
Olinger will meet with Chaska High School Principal Jim O'Connell to discuss volunteer
opportunities at the high school. Mike Fahey will discuss volunteer opportunities with
some groups he works with. Last yeats directory included 33 differen~ organizations.
This year that numb~r may be SO or more.
.
Students planning to attend the Minnesota Community Education Association Conference
in St. Cloud between October 7 - 29 include Natalie, Lori, Farrah, early, DanieUe, and
Shannon Dilks. Shannon will be attending all three days. Other students will be
attending on Thursday, a day highlighted for youth. Reservations have been made for
Wednesday evening for those youth attending. Please keep Jeanne informed of the
transportation plans.
Rich Lambert updated the Commission on the Teen Center. It is now called "The
Underground." They are looking for a new Director. Natalie and LeeAnn plan to go see
what the Teen Center is like and report back to the Commission.
Next item on the agenda was the public notice regarding Youth Commission meetings.
Lori Wellens presented her draft. It was discussed. The current draft reads as follows:
"Youth Commission meets on the first Monday of each month at 7:00 pm. Meetings are
held in the Teachers' Lounge at Jonathan Elementary School. Their mission is to advocate
for youth and to address youth issues. Both youth and adults representative of District a
112 and Carver County are active. Meetings are open to the public. For more .,
information, please call 368-3686 or 368-3688." Additions or corrections to this meeting
notice may be made to Lori Wellens who wDl have placed with the area newspapers.
Carly Sorscher requested information as to how to proceed regarding the adult opening
in Carver County. Lori Johnson has officially resigned. Carly will work with Deb Wagner
in getting the position advertised in local newspapers. Carver County officials will make
the selection of the new member.
New Business:
Carver County ARC has asked Youth Commission to help them find youth who will help
with their fund raiser scheduled in November at the Chaska Community Center. They will
host a "Slide-A-Thon" in the waters!ide area of the pool. Tasks for youth (or adults)
include crowd control in the pool area, serve food, clean up, and perhaps get pledges.
Contact person is Jean Hariman 368-2878. Natalie wDl chair this project.
Parents Anonymous requested help with child care for one meeting during the calendar
year. They are contacting many different youth groups to obtain help. The Youth
Commission made a commitment to find two individuals to baby'sit 0 -6 year olds at the
February Parents Anonymous Meeting. Laurie Twait 448-2695 is the contact person.
Natalie will chair.
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There will be a Teen Nite held December 3 at the Chaska Middle School, sponsored by
Community Education and other groups. Gay Mattson has requested help with
chaperoning. Her phone number is 368-3687. The Youth Commission has agreed to find
ten chaperones for that Teen Nite. Chairperson?
It is understood by Youth Commission members that the aforementioned service
commitments will not be filled by YC manpower but by asking other high school groups
such as Student Council, Key Club, etc. to become involved.
There is a high school curriculum sponsored by the National League of Women Voters
entitled "We've Got the Power." Natalie R has reviewed it and asks that other YC
members take a look at. Mrs. Bev Geffert, high school social studies teacher, is aware of
the curriculum. Natalie will talk with Mrs. Geffert about a possible community service
project. '
Rich Lambert distributed copies of the updated Bylaws and reviewed them with those
members present. Very well done!
Thanks to everyone for reading the minutes prior to attending the meeting. Also, thanks
to Natalie, Farrah, Lori, Susan, Rich, Mike for following through on YC commitments!
Motion Wellens/Second Hunn to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at
8:45 pm.
P.S.
Phyllis Lindstrand, as Vice-Chair, will take on the responsibility of reserving a room for
YC meetings in the future. The next meeting will be held on November 1 at 7 pm at
Jonathan Elementary. Please mark your calendars.
A spaghetti dinner sub-committee meeting was held immediately following the general
meeting. Sounds like there is a good response coming in for the dinner! Be sure to
attend. Menu includes: Garlic Toast, Spaghetti, milk, coffee, water, and bars.
All YC members are asked to bring one pan of bars/dessert to the spaghetti dinner.
Chanhassen Senior Center
NE S
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Volume 1 FLlII 1993
~temberfest Celebration A Success
Thank you. . . . . .Thank you. . . . . . Thank you. . . . . . .To all Seniors involved
in the Septemberfest Celebration. All of you who participated in the Farmers
Market, Bake Sale, Craft Sale or CHAN-o-laires in any way are what makes an
event like this a success. The combined net revenue from these activities was over
$500.00, which will go back into the Senior Center in order to continue buying
supplies such as coffee, cards, bingo equipment, chorus music and more!
Septemberfest was fun and friendships were developed and strengthened. Thanks
Again! Dct\.Cf\... ~:; -8ENIORCOORDINATOR
Mark Your Calenders
October 19 .................................. Fall Mystery Trip
,
November 3 ..........................Old Log Theatre Trip
November 6 ........................................ Taste of Italy
December 4 ....................................... Casino Night
December 11 ..................................... Holiday Party
December 14 ...................... Christmas lights Tour
Pre-registration Required
Name
Address
Oty
Zip
Suggestions for the Chanhassen Senior Center
Su~estions
If you have any suggestions for activities or classestt
that you would like to see offered, please let us
know on the fOnD below or tell us in person at the
Chanhassen Senior Center. We're always open to
New Ideas!
We are also trying to update our mailing list, please
help us in that process. Thank you!
Phone
Please take me off the
manmgn.O
PletUe either mail or drop oJfthisform to:
Chanhassen Senior Center. 690 Coulter Drive. Chanhassen. MN 55317
.
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C ITV OF
CHAIHASSEI
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
September 29, 1993
Mr. Michael J. Gorra
1680 ArOOretum Boulevard
Chanhassen, MN SS317
Dear Mr. Gorra:
City Manager Ashworth forwanled your letter of September 14, 1993, to me and I am happy to respond.
As you are aware, we have talked previously in reganl to both the fireworks display and the beach triil.
Your request for assurance that the fireworks not be lIunched from the west end of the park property is
granted. Setback requirements have increased on In ammal basis, resulting in my desire to change
launching sites this year. As you suggested, there is room to the east for a launch site; however, due to
sight ~onstraints, we would have to launch from the Eckankar property. My inquil)' with Eck,nkar this
year did not come in time as they were not comfortable with granting the city permission two to three
weeks prior to the event I will be contacting them again to talk about next year. I apologize for any
sUIprises you endured during this year's celebration. As you are aware, the fireworks have traditionally
been launched on the west end of the beach (since moving from Oty Center Parle). You have informed
me that you were out of town during previous displays. I presumed you were enjoying the "best seat in
the house"-a presumption I should not have made.
In regard to the new trail at the Lake Ann Beach. I, too, recognize it did not do anything to beautify the
beach. However, more Qmes than not we are forced to compromise to meet competing interests. In this
case, the federal requirement of reasonable accessibility to public facilities mandated the hard sWfaced .
trail. The trail benefits maintenance goals also by allowing hassle.free service of the refuse containers (no
getting stuck and making ruts). As you DOtCd,bowever, 1be tnil was constructed at the expense of
changing the "look" and "feel" of the beach area. ..... Other input to date has been. ()Verwhe.lmingly positive.
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Mike, thank you for contacting the city in these regards. If you are in need offunher assistance or
clarification, please contact me.
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Todd Hoffman
Park. and Recreation Director
pc:
Mayor and Oty Council
Park. and Recreation Commission
Don Ashworth, Oty Manager
Jerl)' Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
September 27. 1993
Ms. Janet Arnold
7020 Pima Lane
Cbanhassen. MN 55317
Re: Traffic Control Request on Powers Boulevard (County Road 17)
File No. PW-07OC-3
Dear Ms. Arnold:
I recently received your letter requesting additional ttaffic control along Powers Boulevard (County Road 17) in
Chanhassen. You had indicated a desire to see a fOlD'-wayaop installed at the intersection of Powers Boulevard and
Kerber Boulevard along with a painted crosswalk. and to have the speed limit reduced from SO miles per bOlD' to
30 miles per hour. Powers Boulevard (County Road 17) is under County Road jurisdiction. daeftn. the City of
Chanhassen does not have the authority to impose a speed reduction or place stop signs on Powers Boulevard. I will.
bowever. send a copy of YOlD' leuer to the Carver County Engirieer. Mr. Roger Gustafson. for his information. I am
aware that Carver County is in the process of evaluating the existing speed limits on County roads within the rapidly
urbanizing communities of Chanhassen. Chaska and Victoria. I will also ftn'ard a copy of YOID' letter on to Mr. e
Todd Hoffman. the Park and Recreation Director. to address the isaue of a crosswalk at this location as it relates to
the Park' Departrnent's overall comprehensive City trail system. 1bank you for expressing your conccms on this
matter.
Sincerely,
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
~,
Charles D. Folch. P .E.
Director of Public WorbJCity Enginea'
CDF:knn
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Roger Gustafson, Carver County Engineer. w/leUti
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director',- wJleaez
Scott Barr. Public Safety Director. w!letter ;.,
City Council Adminisuative Packet (10/11193) -w/letla'
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September 19, 1993
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t. fcu"t >IS I3lvc4 l..
LlC. Todd M See If H
RECEIVEr. ~16.
SF r:. ~. t: 1993
C!TY or: SHA!\lHASSEt\
To Whan It May Calcem:
I would like to suggest a four-way st:q> be created at the intersection of
Powers Blvd (County Road 17 N) and Kerber Blvd. After talking with my
neighbors, we feel the traffic aloog Powers is too fast. '!here have been
several accidents 00 Powers in the past few IlD1ths and we feel it will
ally get worse with the opening of TaJ:get and the oarpletioo of the
aparbnents near W 78th St. So many people use that intersectioo while
j egging, walking dogs, etc. Kids 00 bikes cross there to head towards
town and school. We just think 50 MPH has beoane tQ,fast to be . safe.
Powers Blvd has becane a drag strip fran Clan to Excelsior. Excelsior
slows traffic down to 30 MPH. '!his area has grown so nuch fran the days
of com fields except for Greenwood Shores. '!bat speed limit has created
a dangerous situation. In addition to slowing traffic down, to say, 40 MPH,
we would like to see a crosswalk with a four-way stop at Powers and Kerber.
Please give this your consideratioo. I would be willing to petition to have
this done if its necessary.
Thank you.
U'
Ja.r J'
/1"4 ~~
! Janet Arnold .
7020 Pima Lane
Chanhassen MN 55317
CiTY Uf *ihA~HAS.\;:iJ
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SEP 20 7533
ENGINEERIN.G DEPT.
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANI:tASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612f937-5739
MEMORANDUM
FROM:
Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent -$
Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director
TO:
DATE:
September 27, 1993
SUBJ:
Chanhassen Hills Park Ballfield
This morning, Assistant Gty Manager Gerhardt and I met with Jeff Lynne, a resident of
Chanhassen Hills. Mr. Lynne's concerns centered on the issue of recreational facilities available
to the Chanhassen Hills neighborhood. SpCcifically the absence of a ballfield and trail
connections to the north. As you are aware, the city will work in . tandem with Argus
Development (Joe Miller Homes) to complete the ttaU from Barbara Court to Lake Susan Park. e
The city's responsibility being the segment from the base of the hill at Barbara Court west to
beyond the drainage ditch. As we have discussed, it is my hope that this work will be completed
in the fIrst half of the 1994 construction season.
The construction of the ballfield has been a scheduled item since the 1992 capital improvement
program. Construction could Dot begin; however, until the park's final master plan was
completed. As we have discussed. The master plan has DOW been completed and it is my hope
that you find time to comple1e the ballfield this fall.
I am aware of the time constraints you are managing with and all the projects you are responsible
for. However, I believe you'll agree, this fall wouldbebette.r~DCXtspring (prior to June
Is~ .
p.c. Jeff Lynne, 8615 Chanhassen Hills Drive N. .
Todd Gerhardt, Assistant Gty Manager
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