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1992 03 24 Agenda . . . FILE AGENDA PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION TUESDAY, MARCH 24, 1992, 7:30 P.M. CHANHASSEN CI1Y HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE CALL TO ORDER 1. Approval of February 11 & 25, 1992, Minutes 2. Site Plan Review, Preliminary Plat Bluff Creek Site Keyland Homes PlannersjEngineers/Surveyors 14450 Burnsville Parkway Burnsville, MN 55337 3. Site Plan Review, Preliminary Plat Stone Creek Hans Hagen Homes, Inc. 941 N.E. Hillwind Road Suite 300 Fridley, MN 55432 4. Site Plan Review, Preliminary Plat Ithilien Hilloway Corporation 16455 Ringer road Wayzata, MN 55391 5. Site Plan Review Conference/SPA Center 1350 Flying Cloud Drive (Site of former Assumption Seminary) Leland F. Gohlike 11661 Myeron Road Stillwater, MN 55082 6. Discussion, Golf Course James R. Hill, Inc. 2500 W. Cty Road 42 Burnsville, MN 55337 Charles W. Plowe Consulting Engineer 9180 Lexington Ave. N.E. Circle Pines, MN 55014 Coffin & Gronberg, Inc. Engineers/Surveyors/Planners 482 Tamaraok Ave. Long Lake, MN 55356 7. City of Chanhassen Park and Recreation Needs Survey, Final Draft 8. Workshop, Park Improvement Bond Issues 9. Discussion, Cathcart Park 10. Commission Member Presentations 11. Administrative Section Par k and Rec Commissic'! Meeti ng February 25, 1992 - Page 30 Lash: Wow. So when is it going to happen? . Hoffman: buzzing. Potentially this fall or spr~ng of 1993. Curt was just a Lash: All the years here. All the work here and he got nothing. As soon as he leaves, boom. Schroers: Okay, good. Pe ick: Are we going to call it Curt Robinson Tennis Court. He fman: Memorial. Schroers: Okay. We're getting there Todd. Sunset Ridge. What do we have? We've pretty much got it covered. We've got trees and tennis court and basketball. Looks good to me. Lash: Is there a ballfield there already? Hoffman: Yep. . Schroers: And then other improvements. These apply to. . Hoffman: That was just to balance off the figure so it all added up for you in the back for 1992. Come out to 145. Andrews: Is that a typical annual contribution in terms of the tree farm? $200.00. Hoffman: It's minor because it's so full. Lash: It used to be a lot more than that didn't it? Hoffman: Yeah. It's when some transfers were taking place and tree farms was full of some smaller plantings and this is to replace 6 or 8 or 10 trees which were moved out of there this year... Schroers: Okay, how realistic are these figures in terms of actual dollars that we have to use? Hoffman: This total of $145,000.00? Again, it's an estimate. We were $30,000.00 short. I would anticipate with our expenditure timeframe this year, we can get a much closer handle on that. Many of these expenditures will not be going out the door until potentially July-August. If we want to hold back at that point, we can amend this. In discussions with the City Manager, he makes caution in that area simply because it is published. It is a public document. If we make amendments to it and then ~eople who are expecting an improvement in 1992 did not see it happen, they're going to be knocking on our door. It's a... (There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.) . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 31 Schroers: Okay good. Then are we all satisfied with our final amendment to the 5 year capital improvement? . Andrews: I move that we accept the 5 year capital improvement program as amended. Schroers: Is there a second? Lash: Second. ) Andrews moved, Lash seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend approval of the Final Amendments, Chanhassen Park and Recreation Department, Five Year Capital Improvement Program, Neighborhood and Community Parks, as amended. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CHANHASSEN TRAIL PLAN IMPLEMENTATION. PHASE ONE (1990-1995). PHASE TWO (1995-2000). AND PHASE THREE (2000-2010). Hoffman: Chairman Schroers and Park Commissioners. This is an item which can span 3 minutes or 3 hours this evening. It's a discretion as to what extent you would like to carry this conveYsation this evening. It's quite timely from my perspective. Today and t~morrow and I.am attending the Minnesota State Bicycle Conference which this Year has really expanded it's horizons. One it's dealing with legisl~tion en~cted by ~im Oberstar in the . ..Surface Transportation Deficiency Act. ,SOme considerable funding sources will be available at the Federal and<State-teveJ. ... about WhO'. going to be handling those funds and grant -~p~licationpr0gess and acceptable projects. That type of thing 'hj;i$"not been laid out yet but it's exciting. They've mandated that a certa~n.'pel"centage of-roadway funds must be ,applied to bicycle, walking, alternatIye~mode~ of transportation. So it's pretty much landmark legislation'. ;'Another_ interesting side note is that there is a_ rails to trails conse~0an6Y whi~b I was not aware of. It's a conservancy group which is located ,1n Wa'shi ngton D.t.. . Tbey 're advocates for rails to trails conversion and the~ wi~l~ave many good ideas for us to build upon for our projects in southern Chah~assen. Schroers: With that why don't we ask yoU to be our representative at the conference and bring us back some information that we can apply to our trail plan and address it at that point in time. Hoffman: We certainly can do that. It's an item which hearing at this commission, many communities not only have a Park and Recreation Commission. They also have a Trail Commission. Trails are taking up a third or ~ourth, half of the time of many park commissions, especially communities which have basically developed their park system and they're looking at alternative modes of transportation. Downsizing the importance of the automobile and that kind of thing. Documents which are enclosed in here show you that there is some progress even though at times it seems bleak. There has been some progre'ss made but it's imperative that the Park Commission stance on trails and sidewalks within the community, make it's position known to the City Council. As noted in here it would be a good investm~nt of y~u~ ~ime to investig~te a sidewalk/trail ordinance as it . deals WIth subdIVIsIon. Currently If you're a home buyer in Chanhassen a Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 32 . you drive from one neighborhood to the next, sidewalks do not make any sense simply because they've been addressed on a subdivision to subdivision application issue. So one will have it or one not. It depends on the decisions that were made at that time of approval of that subdivision. So we can spend as much or as little time on this issue as you wish. This is map which assists me as I look at trail connections in Chanhassen. Again as stated in the report, we're getting those segments out there where we can start to make some sense through connections. As TH 5 improvement project...city's trail system. This portion...intersection of Powers Blvd. and.. .take you out to Lake Ann...This segment was included as a part of the Audubon Road improvement project... Schroers: I guess I'm really surprised that the Planning Commission doesn't hav~ a policy regarding sidewalks in the neighborhood. Personally I would just as soon see some consistency there. I don't like seeing or using a sidewalk when it just plain ends and all of a sudden you're in a street or a roadway. We've had people come up here that were very much in favor of sidewalks. We've also had people come in here who were adamantly opposed to them and to try to please everybody, I don't think is the answer but I'm not sure if that's what we should be doing. I would think that that would be part of the Planning Commission to set up an ordinance regarding sidewalks in corridors in a residential area. Andrews: We can make a motion that we are in favor of such an ordinance. I think that's what you're asking us to do isn't it? . Hoffman: Or drafting an ordinance yourself. Andrews: I don't know if I'm qualified to do that but. . Lash: And you think that the Planning Commission... Andrews: No, they aren't either but I think we ought to make our wishes known to Council. That's where it should be drafted and coordinated with the Planning Commission. Schroers: We've tried to do that. We wanted to be consistent with our trails and we wanted them all bituminous and we wanted them all off road and we had that etched in stone and got torn up and thrown up and blown up. Lash: Somewhere along the line I think there was some confusion or over zealousness or something and misinterpretations. It got to be a pretty loaded issue there for a while and I think things have calmed down enough that we could probably relook at this issue and come up with what we think is a fair and reasonable plan and I think if we give thought to having it be reasonable and something that isn't going to be perceived as overkill or something that we are trying to force on people who don't want it or something like that, I think we just need to have a consensus' here within our group so that we can state to City Council that this is the direction we'd like to go and we think this is a reasonable direction. And I think Council has made fairly clear over the last couple of years the direction that they're interested in heading and I think they've sent that message to us. And if we think that's a reasonable direction, then I think all we need to do is come up with a response to that and say this is what we're . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 33 looking for and we want to know if you support it or you don't. If they don't, then they can send it back and we're going to have to start over. But personally I feel that this is more of an issue for us to generate ~ discussion. If trails fall under recreational use, then it should initia~ here. If you're looking at a sidewalk ordinance that people want to sit down and say, from this day on every residential area that goes in is going to have a sidewalk in front of every house, then it would go.to Planning. But if \J.w're talkinG ilbolJf, n3crei3lional use, then I think this is the Commission where it should be initiated. Schroers: I agree with that. The problem is that it's an interconnecting situation. We started off saying that we want to be consistent and we want all our trails off street. Well, that didn't fly and ~nless I'm, you can 'correct me if I'm mistaken but I think the way it is right now is that wherever possible we are off street but in the other area we "are inclined to go with what is in the development or in the area. Some places it's sidewalks and some places it's asphalt and in other places it's painted on the street. Andrews: I think we've got two different issues here. One is what do we do with existing developments if 'we have sidewalks or trails versus what do we recommend for brand new developments and I think it's always easy to impose a law that requires sidewalks to a new development because people when they move in and they're already there, have already chosen to have them. I think that's the first step to take. I agree, if you came into where I live and said we're going to put a sidewalk down your front yard, that'd leave me about 15 feet of front yard and I would be against that in. spite of the fact that I would see a benefit to get those kids off the street. But I personally do feel that there ought to be a sidewalk . ordinance required for all new developments. I think it enhances property value and it will make the life of future park commissions much easier if we do that. Schroers: We thought too and we had a lady come up here and she told us in no uncertain terms that she moved out here from the city to get away from all the pavement and she did not want a sidewalk going through her yard and she would much rather see her children play in the street than to have a sidewalk go through her yard. Andrews: You're going to have people pressing opinions on every side of every issue and to say that we don't want a sidewalk ordinance because we don't have a consensus or unanimous consensus in favor, that's not going to happen. I do think that if you look at Eden Prairie, I think Eden Prairie is excellent example of a city with a good trail and sidewalk ordinance. At least it appears to be and I think I see nothing but...sidewalk ordinance for future development. Lash: The problem, I completely disagree with you because I am one who moved out here to get away from sidewalks. I grew up in the city and I would have absolutely no interest at all in having sidewalks in front of my house. But I think we need to look at the difference from Chanhassen and Minneapolis where they have a sidewalk in front of every house. The difference in Chanhassen is that, other than if you look at downtown. Downtown basically you have city blocks with streets all around and the ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 34 . rest of the city is developed into neighborhood areas that are off of basically a main road or a busier road. What I see the difference in, in Minneapolis you've got lots of cars going up and down every street allover everywhere. There's not just little pockets of residential areas like there is in Chanhassen. Almost every neighborhood that you go into, there's a road to get into it and then there's a lot of little cul-de-sacs and a lot of little windy roads going all around and to use all of our trail funding to put sidewalks all the way around on all those little roads, leaves us no money to put them in any other areas. Andrews: That's not what I said. Lash: No I know but that's what happens to the money. That is what has happened to the money in the past. If we require sidewalks in the new developments, that's our trail fund money. That money goes to... Andrews: Doesn't have to be. Doesn't have to be. ~Lash: Well but that's the way it's happened in the past. Andrews: That's the way our current system is set up. There's nothing to say that a sidewalk becomes part of the development process and it has nothing to do with trails or park dedication fee. This is part of the developer's cost to develop property. Lash: And then he would pay trail fees on top of that? . Andrews: You bet. Lash: Okay. So if they did that, that would be a completely different thing. I mean still again, personally I don't see the need for it but as long as it's not going in my front yard and it's not costing me any money and it's not taking away from putting in the trails on the other roads, then I don't really care. Andrews: I agree with you completely. I wouldn't somebody coming through my street and put in a sidewalk in my yard today. Schroers: Okay, but we can't sit here and say that we don't want it in our yard but we're going to require it in everybody's elses. Andrews: Yes you can. Yes you can. Schroers: You can but it doesn't fly. Andrews: I completely disagree because if I had come into my neighborhood with a sidewalk already there, I would have been happy to have it. Schroers: That's a point well stated but we cannot sit here and publicly say that we wouldn't want it in our yard but we're going to "require someone else. I think that that's bad politics. . Andrews: I don't think that's inconsistent at all. Because if a person buys a newly developed piece of property with a sidewalk on it, is making a Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 35 choice to have the sidewalk. ] wasn't given the choice to not have it or have it. When I bought my property there was no sidewalk there and that's, the way I bought it. I'm happy with that. If I had a sidewalk there, I . would have been happy with that too. Schroers: No, I understand that and that's a point well taken. But I think that it wouldn't be to our advantage to sit here and publicly state that we don't want sidewalks in our yard and yet support and ordinance to that effect. I think that the sidewalk should be separate from trails and that the sidewalk should be an issue for the Planning Commission. If we want to vote an endorsement to support a sidewalk ordinance and pass that along to the Planning Commission, that would be fine but I think that's two separate things there. And we're going to address the main trails, the trail system for the city and let the Planning Commission and the developers address the sidewalk issue. Lash: Unfortunately the trail system that's laid out on the plan now includes any of the sidewalks that are in so when you look at this overall trail plan, it's on street trails, it's off street trails, it's sidewalks, it's anything that's smooth is on this plan. And when I look at it, I get confused knowing which is which and I think that somewhere along the line it's got to be a different system" for this so that when I look at this I can tell that the one through Saddlebrook is a sidewalk. The one on Lake Lucy Road is an on street painted line. The one that~s somewhere else is a, well nature trails are separate but anyway, I think there's got to be a . system so that when you look at that we can see what we're talking about. I look at Phase 2 and I see that there's a little black line going right. down my new street. Right in front of my new house and I want to know right away, is that supposed to be an off street trail? I already asked . that. I know the answer is no, but if I didn't know" that from having asked that last year, just because I know the confusion and this thing came out in a publication and I looked at that and I went whoa. They're going to put a trail right down the front of my:yard, I'd be upset. Now I'm under the impression, because the answer I got before is that it's just going to be a marking or a sign saying you can get through from Kerber over to the main beach by taking this route. And I'm not opposed to that but looking at the plan, you can't tell that that's what that is. Andrews: I want to make a couple comments. I guess I feel like from a sidewalk issue as far as developments go, I guess I could see that in my opinion I think there ought to be something for collector streets. Something for, I don't know how to legally define but I guess I'd say a cul-de-sac of under 150-200 feet doesn't require a sidewalk to provide safe pedestrian traffic. But I still would feel had I moved into our current neighborhood with a sidewalk down Fox Hollow already there, that would have been definitely better and safer than what's there today. Now to say that I would not appreciate somebody coming in after the fact and ripping up my front yard to put a sidewalk in, I don't think is inconsistent. Because if the sidewalk had been there when I first bought my house, I think I would have preferred it that way. Lash: If they made an ordinance for sidewalks, it would have to be something that as soon as the street went in, before any houses went in, the sidewalk would have to be there so anybody coming to look at the lot . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 36 would see that there's sidewalks... But has happened in the past is that they haven't gone in at the same time and people buy the lots and they're not informed and first thing they know, then somebody wants to come back and put sidewalk in and they don't want it. . Andrews: When they want to know what the stakes in their front yard are for. Lash: Right and this is where the miscommunication.. .caused so many problems. Andrews: And I agree. Pemrick: And that's where each neighborhood has to be dealt with in a separate manner because some definitely do not lend themselves to having sidewalks. Some definitely would but I think you can't in one fell swoop say everything from now on is going to get sidewalks in front of them. Lash: I think it depends on the size of the development. It depends on the length of the street and how much traffic is going to be on there. I mean some of it would just be a completely total waste of money. And if it's not our money... . Andrews: I think larger developments should have sidewalks. I think it should be part of our city plan to have, to look at that as part of our future growth in the city. I think it's inevitable that that's going to become something that we very much want to have. I just think it's wiser to look at that upfront instead of after the fact. I mean we're dealing with the problem right now with lack of trails and so forth right now. Having to go back and put in trails at very expensive methods because it was not part of the original construction. And we're saying well, we're going to continue that policy. I don't think makes sense. Lash: I just see that there's a big difference between a sidewalk and a trail. Hoffman: You're correct. Pemrick: Yeah, and they should be separate. Definitely. Hoffman: The Commission has made some, they've taken that position and that's exactly the position this bicycle conference takes as well. Trails and sidewalks are separate. They' need to be addressed separately. A trail is an 8 foot bituminous trail. A sidewalk is a 6 or 5 foot concrete sidewalk. Many, many communities include sidewalks as part of their trail plan simply to try bolster what their trail plan looks like but there's too many curb cuts. There's too many interferences with traffic, driveways, that type of thing. You cannot perform the same uses on an 8 foot bituminous trail that you can on a sidewalk but sidewalks serve a variety of uses as well. They need to be treated separately. .. .have sidewalk ordinances which typically, as Jim mentioned, deal with thru streets only. It's a standard which a community needs to struggle with. This Commission does not wish to take a stand on, it's a difficult issue. It certainly is. Planning Commission, at least through conversations with Paul Krauss, the . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 37 Director of Planning, between the two of us he says go ahead and do it if you want to take a shot at it, fine. Schroers: Why? . Hoffman: Why? Schroers: Why doesn't the Planning Commission provide us wiJh jtheir information that they have or their ideas regarding what they\ ~nvision for trails or sidewalks and let us look at it and see if we think that it will work for our trail system and give us, let us have some input that way. I mean I don't know why we should be stuck with having to make the decision for sidewalks and sidewalk ordinances in a residential area. I think that we've got enough to do with trails and pa~ks without having to try to plan, to be the Planning Commission as well as the Park Commission. We do want to have trail connections through there too but it just seems to me like we'd be a little bit out of line trying to force that issue. It seems to me that it would be more of a Planning Department type. of thing. Lash: I guess I'd like to see the two issues split. Have us deal with the recreational trail part of it and we would have to work somewhat in hand with the Planning Commission I think on that. And then as far as the sidewalk thing, I think that needs to be.' apdress~'d jointly between the Planning Commission and Public Safety. rI think Public Safety, the reason for a sidewalk would be public safety c3.'nd if Pu61icSafe'ty reviewed it and thought yes, this street is a safety ha~arQ for. children to get to school or to get to a park, or whatever their feelirfg is, -then they would make a. recommendation to the Planning Commission th~t,yes, this street should ha a sidewal k. And then it would go to the/ ptalJ:ni ng Commission and Ci ty Council. .' ;,' " - - 1- Berg:' I agree. I think it's much betui-l""f6 be. proactive when you have the chance instead of reactive. I'd like to see the.two' ~ssues separated and do something with it still. That is .fn ourgennainand I think for us to sieze the initiative is much better than to s-it bac'k and react to what other people are tell i ng us they thi nk is ~'9ood idea. Andrews: One comment that Larry said, that I think I made clear that we don't consider sidewalks to be part, a substitute for the trail system. I don't know if that's the direction the Planning Commission is looking for from us but I didn't, I wasn't trying 'to imply that at all. I don't think I did. Schroers: I think that you point is well taken and I agree that we have a sidewalk running along Carver Beach Road as part of the trail. When you look at it, it doesn't look like a trail but the amount of use that it's getting and the number of children that it's keeping off that busy street, in my opinion is better than not having a sidewalk or a trail there. The point that I was trying to make, I'm not against sidewalks or trail. The only thing that I was saying is that I don't think we should sit here and state publicly that we wouldn't want one in our yard but that we should think about requiring it of the rest of the people because then we're kind of setting a double standard. We just shouldn't make that statement. If. we wanted to pursue a trail, or a sidewalk ordinance, fine. We should P~rk and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 38 pursue a sidewalk ordinance but then we shouldn't say that we want other people to have one but we don't want us to have one. That was the point that I was making there. That we don't set a double standard. . Lash: There's two sides, there's pros and cons to every issue and I used to carpool with a gal who lives by Lake Susan and has a sidewalk in her front yard. They knew it was there and they moved from Minneapolis and, maybe she didn't know it was going in. But anyway, they don't like it. She wishes it wasn't there. But it's there so they live with it but she said we don't shovel it and we're not going to shovel it. We don't use it and we don't like it and we're not going to shovel it. Well what good is it 6 to 8 months of the year when people are going to take a stand like that and not even have it cleared? It's there for the summer. Schroers: And are they on like a collector? Lash: Well what's the first road? Hoffman: Lake Susan Hills Drive. Lash: Yeah, it's on the west side of CR 17. . Hoffman: It's all decisions which, philosophical decisions. What is a sidewalk? Is it recreation? Leisure? Safety? Is it planning? Should there be an ordinance requiring clearing of that sidewalk? In many towns if you don't clear your sidewalk, you got a ticket in your front door 2 days later. These are all issues which we need to wrestle with. If the Commission would like to send a message off to the Planning Commission that they think the Planning Commission should address sidewalks and Park and Rec will take trails, I can certainly do that through the Planning Director and see what kind of response we get back. Pemrick: I'd be for that. Lash: I'd like to see Planning work with Public Safety on the sidewalk thing. Schroers: I can envision in an area, if the streets are made wide enough, you can have a line painted and the on street trail and that's fine for kids that are of the age where they're responsible or adults jogging or bike riding but little kids on tricycles, there's a trade off. Some trails are better in certain areas than others depending on the amount of traffic and the ages of people in the area that are going to be using it. I firmly believe that that sidewalk along Carver Beach Road either already has or will save a serious accident or a death because the cars just used to screech on a daily basis and now that almost doesn't happen because kids stay on the sidewalks. Lash: Do the people who live along there keep that cleared ih the winter? Schroers: No. It's not really used. Hoffman: It won't unless there is an ordinance. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 39 Lash: And see that was another thing that was miscommunicated to a lot of people when this was going on. People would come in and they were told by the Commission, they'd say who's responsibility is it to keep it cleared. and the Commission told them that that's the city's responsibility. Well okay. Then everybody was happy and then it turned out that really it isn't the city's responsibility. It's written in the ordinance that it's the property owner's responsibility so a lot of people were misinformed. That was a while back that that happened but now you've got people who came in before they bought their homes feeling like the city was going to cpme and clear it for them every time it snowed and all of a sudden they found out that's not happening and they're stuck with it so. Schroers: It's just not being maintained or used in the winter when 'there's snow on it. It's not being used and as soon as it clears off, the kids are back on it with their bikes. Lash: In this thing it's got listed, I don't know what page it's on but there was listed some guidelines I think that, here it is. That we were supposed to be going by the...public safety...and then property owner's desire and acceptance. It's the very second one. So I think there was a lot of thought put into this... (There was a tape change at this point in the discuss~on.) Schroers: .. .really costly. I mean there was no way that we could sit here and reasonably try to discuss a project of that magnitude which could never be funded by any way that we knew. Hoffman: Other than the road projects. . Schroers: Other than the road projects, right. But for us as a commission or in the park budget to try to fund off street trails out of our budget, there's no way that that could ever happen. That's why it was included in the referendum which unfortunately failed by such a narrow margin. That would have really helped us out but I think that that's something that we have to look at again once we get a plan and decide something like you were stating earlier.Jan is reasonable and workable and logical. It will be easier to sell and we'll probably have to look at another referendum for funding. Lash: And I think looking at our, at the Phase 1, 2 and 3, this must be a revised from the way it was for the referendum. Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Because this looks reasonable. I mean if we had to go to a referendum and say to people, this is the trail system that we would like to have implemented by the year 2000 and we need a million dollars or whatever it is to do it, I think people could look at this and say, wow. A million dollars isn't going to get very much but at least it's going to hook up TH 5 to CR 17 and at least it's going to hook up Minnewashta to TH 5 and some of those kind of things and they would maybe be more inclined then to see a map that's just got lines allover everywhere in front of everything and then they get... . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 40 Schroers: Along with the $5 million figure. . Lash: Right. So this is backed off quite a bit I think from the original thing and it looks a lot more reasonable. Schroers: We still have the survey arid stuff to look at tonight and actually, we're getting some good discussion here but in terms of really solid accomplishment, we're not. Hoffman: My only closing remarks would simply be that trails touch a lot of people. That's why they're a difficult issue. However, if we choose not to take a definite stand or decisive stand, they'll continue to slide by and slip by. However, it's a simple fact that walking is the number one recreational activity in this country, bicycling is number two and it's been shown over and over in all the surveys, not only in our community but other communities as well. It's also been proven or shown, demonstrated many, many times that those same folks as Jim says and other people have mentioned, that are defiant against these trails, whether they be in railroad corridors or along street, will turn the corner once they're in and not be your enemy anymore. They become allies and again I can't state that exclusively but that does occur many, many times. We're simply not going to fill the Council chambers with people that are all for trail and go and say let's build it. It's always going to be a.controversial issue. Lash: Everybody wants them. They just don't want it in front of their house, ~hich gets to be a problem. . Schroers: So we are taking no action on this this evening but we asking you to find out what the Planning Commission program is regarding sidewalks and trails and provide that information for us to look at. Andrews: Can I make a comment? I think one thing we're making a mistake on is that we're always trying to look for a consensus instead of a majority. I think sometimes that it's beneficial if we can't agree, to make a proposal. You know I don't mind being defeated if, I can live with that so you're not offending me if it's 4 against 1. I can live with that but I guess I think I can sense some frustration from Todd here that it's okay to make a resolution saying that we are for this or a9ainst that but make that resolution. We don't have to all agree. It doesn't bother me. Lash: I guess I would like, are you looking for a motion Todd first of all of a direction that we want to take or what's the whole purpose here? Hoffman: This issue was fairly open ended and if it ended in a motion or recommendation. Andrews: I guess your recommendation sounded like you were looking for some firm direction here. Maybe you don't need it today. I don't know but I guess I'm concerned like you are, that if we don't take some firm stand, either for sidewalks or against them, that we haven't accomplished anything. We just basically spent half an hour or so talking about the pros and cons and then 3 weeks from now we can spend another half an hour talking about the same pros and cons allover again. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting Fehruary 25, 1992 - Page 41 Lash: Well I'd be willing to make a motion. Schroers: Okay but first of all let's clarify here what we are talking . about. It's the Chanhassen Trail Plan Implementation. Now that happens r some places to include sidewalks but it is not exclusively sidewalks so the issue that we're dealing with here and the recommendation that we are going to make is in regards to the trail plan implementation. Not specifically the sidewalks. We're talking about the trail. Pemrick: Well I think we wanted to include that we want sidewalks to go to Planning Commission somehow. Andrews: Well make a motion. I don't think first ofall~ I think the Commission should be open to any motion. Not be specifically directed here. And then so we can take some small steps. We don't have to take a huge step here. We can take a small step. I would be happy if we could. Schroers: Well I don't have a problem ~ith that if someone has a motion, let's hear it. Lash: I would like to move that the Park and Recreation Commission make the recommendation to City Council that we will be attempting to provide the trail system as planned in the Phase 1, 2 and 3 through whatever efforts it will take on OUr part through the year 2010. Having these be recreational trails. Considered recreational trails and that the issue of ~ sidewalks be something that would be addressed by the Planning Commission with recommendation from the Public Safety Commission. Andrews: Okay, I'll second that. . Lash moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council adopting the Chanhassen Trail Plan Implementation, Phase 1. 2 and 3 throu~h the year 2010 for recreational trails and that the issue of sidewalks be addressed by the Planning Commission with recommendation from the Public Safety Commission. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Andrews: All .we're looking for now is we're looking for some direction back then and then we can revisit this and we've committed ourselves now to moving on. Lash: With the recreational trails and we have turned sidewalks over to Public Safety and Planning. Andrews: Okay. Does that help? Hoffman: Sure does. Simply taking the report from this Commission to the City Council and you're never going to get their awareness without taking some news and information up to them. Without awareness we're not going to get very far with any issue. Lash: When I look at these maps, just to clarify to make sUre I'm thinking right. Any of these future things on here are off street? Are planned to be off street, bituminous installations? I don't see any of them right . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 42 . nO~J, I mean we don't know where the future developments are going in so none of these are sidewalks that are shown except for existing ones like throug~ Saddlebrook and Lake Susan. Hoffman: Correct. Lash: And part of me, just to clarify it. I would just as soon have the sidewalks that are in taken off of this so that we know that these are your basit trail. The sidewalk thing could go on a different map as far as I'm concerned but people if they're walking on a bituminous and they see a sidewalk going by, they're going to know there's a sidewalk there. They're not going to look at a map and go, oh let's see I could take this sidewalk and go allover everywhere. I would just as soon have the map just show the off street, recreational trails. Even ihough there are some connections. I know there's some connections and there's some reason for it but maybe they can be shown in a different way, if not taken'off. Hoffman: Okay. Sure can be. Andrews: I feel better now. I think sometimes we try too hard to all agree and you don't need to do that to make progress. Hoffman: ...a Planning Commission meeting and I don't know if I walked in on a bad issue but it was even worst than this. Don't worry. . Pemrick: I heard they go until midnight a lot of those meetings. Lash: We're going to get there pretty soon... Andrews: I guess just as a suggestion for future agenda items, reading back further here about horse trails. The different types of uses. Boy I can see us getting into ~ome long discussions on those. Schroers: We have been in long discussions on those in the past. Anyway, since we have moved on this item then let's move up... CITY OF CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION NEEDS SURVEY. Hoffman: Chairman Schroers and Commission members. This is my assessment of what this could potentially look like. It's admittedly wordy. We did want to accomplish some explanation back to residents, citizens about what has taken place. What is current activity. That is included. It does need some editing. There was a question added under programming to ask residents where they are currently receiving their programming, where they are fulfilling their programming needs at. There ended up being 6 questions. 5 questions. It's very short. Technically I would hesitate even calling this a comprehensive survey. It's kind of a, we just want to know your quick impression of a couple of the different issues. I just talked to the Director in Prior Lake. They are looking at a comprehensive survey strictly on trails based on a 1989 comprehensive park and recreation survey. That trail survey is 3 pages long. Their comprehensive survey was 5 or 6 pages long and he's sending a copy of that up. So this is a different approach from what we've taken in the past and a different approach from what most communities do so prior to digging in, I think you . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - rage 43 need to reconfirm your stance on what you want to then just get sliced to the meat of the issue and and bring it back again. accomplish with this and we'll redefine this thing . Lash: Before we get started I just. want to tell you one thing Todd, for future reference because we missed this opportunity by like 3 days. You know Barb Klick. She's in the Public Safety. She's in a marketing class at St. Thomas and as an assignment she has to work in a grOU~1 and they have to find someone to do a survey for and she said it's between $~,ooo.pO and $10,000.00 worth of work that they do for this business or wh tever it is for like $500.00. Basically your printing costs and things and so it's students who know, who are working and they know how to do all of this and they do everything for you for a very small fee. I talked to, we had our meeting our Tuesday and I talked to her Friday night and the day before she had just set one up with Davanni's Pizza or something.like that. She said if she had just known we were doing this, it would have been a perfect project for her. She would have been real motivated to do it. It would have been something. Hoffman: It would have been great. What University is this through? Lash: St. Thomas. It's right over here ~n Chaska. Pemr ick: Can she get out of that one? ' I ; ./ Lash: No. She had just set it up so but just for futur'e reference. When we ever are going to start something like this~.it'd be worth a call to see. I~: ,- - Hoffman: Okay. Berg: I guess I have a little trouble ~'~,th~the ~tated goal or what I i nterpretted the stated goal of the sut"vey to b-e and- what the survey does matching up. On the first pag~ down Q.n the 1a$t--large parc;tgraph. Provide beneficial input back to the communitY.enabling intelligent~nd justified decisions to be made in the plannin$ for Your-park, recreational and leisure needs. I'm not sure it does that ff you eliminate all questions about tax increases. Are we really gettiD9 any information about what we'd like to see done in the future without any tax increase? Or with or without? If I were looking at this for the first time, I'm seeing a lot of things tied in with bond issues with tax increases. I'm not sure you're re.ally getting a flavor for what I'd like to see in my parks. Lash: Most of the things would require a bond issue. " . Berg: Yeah. Lash: I mean that's the kicker that we have is everything we want to do, we don't have enough money for and we don't know if we should go ahead and pursue a referendum for something that maybe people don't w~nt to start with. Berg: I guess I'd like to see that more clearly stated then. Unless I'm not seeing it somewhere. That point. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 44 . Hoffman: That's been, Jan speaks in the same vein as you do. If you received your Park and Recreation Magazine. Did you get that yet? Do you get it on a separate schedule. Take a look in there in the improving, there's an article on a bond issue in Colorado. $25 million I believe that they passed and simply one of the questions is how much are you willing to spend per month to improve your park and recreational facilities. Straight forward. $1.00? $2.00? $2.50? They took the answer, averaged it. Added that up to what they could get for a bond issue and said here's what your answers can get in improvements and they took it out for a vote. It passed. Andrews: That's an interesting way to ask a question. Hoffman: Are you willing to spend $2.00 a month to improve park facilities? $1.00? $1.50? $5.00? That could be your whole question. Lash: And then see how much money we have. Schroers: One of the things that we came up with in our special meeting Fred was that we decided to kind of focus this questionnaire on things that we would be unable to handle normally through our park and recreation budget. Things that we were likely to have to go to some type of outside funding for and that kind of got us away from our neighborhood parks and more into the community parks and the trail system and so that's kind of why or how we arrived at what we have here so far. . Berg: So if I look at this then, with that supposition, I'm going to assume you're talking about Bandimere and trails. Schroers: Pretty much is what it came to yeah. - Berg: I guess what I'm thinking is, it would be better if we didn't have to make that assumption. I think if you stated that clearly, you'd have a more effective survey. Lash: So something like your Park and Rec Commission is feeling that the two main issues facing us in the future are the youth complex at ~andimere and future trails, would you support this. Berg: And the things that we're planning or talking about doing can't be accomplished without and then how do you feel about, and then go on into your survey. Andrews: I think that would be helpful. Berg: The other thing, I don't know how, this is related to my profession except that I'm a lot more effective and things are a lot more effectively transferred to other people if they're a lot simpler. My first reaction to this was, and I made a notation, there's an awful lot- of reading here. A tendency for a lot of people is to see this and say well there's only 5 questions but that's a lot of reading. I'm not going to do it. If somehow that could be, what's here could be condensed into a considerably fewer sentences, I think you're going to have a better response. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 45 Hoffman: Fred's absolutely right. We talked about it and the difficulty you have is you want to try and inform these people as much as possible so they can make an intelligent decision in their own mind and how do you dO. that? Many surveys just leave it upon yourself to find the information out. If you don't know it, you ask somebody if you're that concerned. There is a lot of words in here and some people are going to say, I won't take the time. Lash: Well, as an example in question 3. The first 3 lines could be x'd out. You start with, the City acquired 32 acre parcel and basically we don't have the money to develop it and would you support a tax increase to develop this into a youth complex? Yes or no. 'Hoffman: You bet. I can edit this with no problems. Let's just carryon and decide if there's other areas which need to be addressed or. Lash: Question 2 you must have added after we met. Was that something that you feel strongly that you need to know or Jerry needs to know or where did that come from? Hoffman: It would be helpful. I'm not sure which question, even question 1 is going to tell us. It's going to tell us if they're satisfied. We're not going to be able to change our operation knowledgeably even if we get a question. If we get 90% say they're only moderately satisfied, we're going to have to do another survey to find out why. Pemrick: What does that mean? Hoffman: Yeah, what does that mean. . Lash: That was why when we talked about that, I kind of wanted right under that, not a separate question. Just why with a couple of lines and if they wanted to elaborate on it, because they have a real ax to grind, then you.'d know specifically what it was. Maybe it was just that they got put on hold when they first called or something. Schroe..s: I don't know that we need to ask that question. I don't know that that's what we're trying to find out. We're trying to find out if they would be interested in supporting the trail system and the youth sports complex which our current budget is not going to allow for us to develop_ Hoffman: The reason it's in there is simply because we're going through the exercise. If there's a couple other things you can find out as long as you're doing it. In discussing this with the City Manager, he wanted to tag on all sorts of stuff about the city. Schroers: Even if we were going to ask that question we could cut down to 3. We could say, dissatisfied, satisfied or. Lash: You're great. Schroers: Yeah. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 46 Lash: Wouldn't change a thing. . Hoffman: So what I'm hearing is we still just want to make this thing essentially 4 questions. Lash: Well one of the goals was to have it be one page wasn't it? Andrews: That's not possible. Lash: You think that's impossible? Andrews: Yeah. You can't do this in one page. Lash: If it was one both sides. One sheet of paper but. Andrews: Well you'd have to get a magnifying glass to read it I would think. I think most of what's here is needed to make an intelligent answer. You have to provide some background information. Schroers: Okay, what Todd is asking is if we want to consider items on this survey besides Bandimere and the trails. Is there anything else anyone feels that we should be addressing in this su~vey besides that? Pemrick: I think those two items should be address but then at the end say additional comments and then we'll get feedback. . Andrews: That's on the back. Lash: Although I kind of like the number 5 where they can prioritize future. That would be just getting more feedback. Maybe we're not on track at all. Maybe we think that there's a need for these two things but they think there's a need for something else. I don't know what but maybe there's a lot of people out there who feel that installation of ballfield lights is the main thing that we need to get done in town. Hoffman: Is there anything else underneath that segment? Andrews: I just had one comment on question 4 and one on question 5. I think question 4 should provide a response that they're satisfied with the system the way it stands because right now the only choice they have is to say they're either against parks and trails or in favor of paying more taxes but they can't say well the status quo is just fine with me. I like parks and trails but I don't want to contribute any more money. Pemrick: That's a good point. Andrews: Then question 5, instead of saying I do not favor raising taxes, perhaps a better way to put that would be to eliminate the last sentence about taxes and just say, I'm willing. What amount I'm willing .to contribute to accomplish these improvements and that way we can find out what level of funding might be out there. Schroers: I like that too because that word taxes just is a bad word. If we could eliminate that word and just use funding instead or just say how . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 47 much would you be willing to designate towards parks and trails or something, but using the word tax puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth I ._ think. Berg: Yeah even if you said I would favor 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, fill in whatever numbers you want, a month towards park improvements and let them circle one. Hoffman: You'll find if you read that article in Park and Recreation Magazine that they did a lot of things like that. Instead of saying land acquisition, to fund land acquisition which they thought was a negative connotation to some people, they said to fund land preservation. Everybody said hey, good deal. Wording and misrepresentation of questions and that type of thing will be refined and will be discussed so we're not trying to attempt to misrepresent our position or to lead people astray. This is not a referendum issue so it doesn't need to go to the legal extent but we will certainly. Lash: Question 4 I would like us just to use the word trails and not sidewalks. Because if this did go to a referendum, I don't think it would be to be putting sidewalks in anywhere. Schroers: I think I'm satisfied this survey in regards to trails think trying to cover too big of ~ productive. I think that's what that far with it. with, I would be satisfied with conducting and Bandimere Youth Sports Complex. I an area at one time is going to be counter we have done in the past and we didn't get Andrews: Part of what we wanted to accomplish too in our last meeting wa~ to start to create awareness of the size of these two projects. If we keep it short, then if we were to come back in the paper or whatever with the results of the survey, they might still remember the questions that they got asked and it would make more sense; Schroers: I think that we need, it needs to be very clear that what we have in mind for Bandimere is a youth sports complex so that the people that are concerned, because I have heard here that people said well, why do we think that we need this and we have had the CAA in here I don't know how many times telling us about the lack of facilities for the youth programs so that's where we're getting that information from is that a youth complex is needed. Trails are a hot item in almost all municipalities and state, federal and all sorts of other park systems as well so I think that there is enough interest in these two items to concentrate on them. Berg: My only other cosmetic comment then would be with the additional comments, maybe you want to add something specific to Bandimere and trails. Otherwise you're going to open up the flood gates. You want to keep it specific to those two. Schroers: That's only my opinion. I mean if somebody else has some. Lash: Well we kind of went round about that last time and started out thinking we were supposed to find out what everybody wanted and then when we talked this to death last time, we got to the point where we're going ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 48 . narrow it down to just 8andimere and trails. Then we backed off in the end and said well, then maybe we need to find out if they think that there's something that's a higher priority than what we think. I just don't feel like I'm all knowing and can read everybody's mind and tell. Maybe I think there's a need for 8andimere but maybe" we're the only ones in town that think that and everybody else thinks we need ball lights over at Lake Ann. 8erg: Maybe you want to word your additional comments then to encourage them to include things other than. Lash: Yeah. What would you like to see? What do you think is the number one priority or list anything that you think is a high priority for you. That's a hard thing for me to do though. If somebody doesn't kind of guide me through it. All of a sudden I'm faced with that and then that requires a lot of thought. Then pretty soon I just throw it away. So we need to have, maybe give them some suggestions at least to get their wheels going. Andrews: You're saying as question 5 you'd like to see an other in the write in? Lash: Or are you just saying to put other? 8erg: I was talking specifically about the comments here at the end. .. .don't make it all inclusive, they're not going to think of anything off of that list. . Lash: I know it. It's kind of a double edged sword. You don't know. Hoffman: The Commission also totally ruled out community center and people, I still get asked that. Schroers: We can leave that under other and see how much, how many people write that in. Lash: Yeah, I don't have a problem with putting it on because I guess I'd be interested in how many people are interested. It just gives us more direction. The more things that we can think of that would be issues and still trying to keep it somewhat short and simple. Schroers: I think that we are also sending out a signal to these people, to the residents and when we include too much, we're giving them the impression that we are trying to get a youth sports complex, a trail system and a community center and they're going to say, that's going to cost us a fortune. No. No. No. That's what happened before. If we're not very careful.. . 8erg: You've been real top heavy in 8andimere and trails. If you have a general list at the end of other concerns that you might like to see the Park and Rec Commission address and you bury community center in there somewhere, I'm not going to get the impression that you're trying to pull an end run here and talk about the community center. . Lash: I think it would be an obvious, I think it would seem like a, I think people would wonder why in the world it's not on there. People who Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 49 really supported it in the past. And I look at this, I guess if I got this' from someone and I looked at this I would think, gee they really care about what I want. They really want to know what I want. Instead of them ~ telling me what I want and what they think we need, they're asking me wha~ I want and I would feel good about that and I would feel that I could be honest and say absolutely not. I don't want a youth complex. Or ballfields are number one for me or whatever and I think if we give the impression that we honestly care about their opinion and we'r~ trying to do what they want and to provide what they want instead of forc.n~ something on them that we think they need, I think they'll be responsiv to it. If we don't make it look slanted or one sided or anything else, just give all the facts and ask them what they want and what they're willing to support and pay for. Hoffman: Larry, can I just ask a couple of comments of the Commission? Just so we can satisfy the other half of our department, Larry I know you've been going just for Bandimere and trails but if we take out question 2 but retain question 1 so we can at least give people an opportunity to comment on the other half of the department which is recreation programs. As long as we're sending this thing out. Schroers: Sure. Hoffman: It's Jerry and the department;irrtrying to focus our attention in that area as well. What is your thoug~ts on demographics? On the introduction. Is it important for peo~le to t~ll wheie their community is? How big it is? Who it is? We hadtalkecJ'about that in that we didn.'f- have to as k them. l.Je knew what it is and i, '[:l':.'"fia~t w~ wa-nted to communi cat that out to the communi ty. In fact thati can b,e. __.. . J~' /~' . ~ _ Andrews: I remember we tal ked about th~.t 'bei ng important and now that I read it, I realize how totally unintere~;:t'lid:-I allt""-in th~t. Lash: l.Jell most people know a,lready that,the--ci-ty is. growing. It's grown. Berg: And they're going to get hit again aDP-again and again. If you have a school board referendums and whatever, tney're going to be seeing. these numbers again and again and again: Hoffman: School board's going to be there next February-March most, likely. Andrews: Minnetonka just approved. Lash: What about November? Hoffman: I don't think so, no. They were looking at February or March, this time next year. So you might want to get this on in November. Schroers: We could maybe eliminate Todd the opening paragraph there that gives the stats and just go with as a growing community the. Park and Recreation Commissipn. Just eliminate the stats. Andrews: We're rapidly growing. Something stronger. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 50 Berg: But then deal somethi~g, put something in there that this survey is going to really be dealing with Bandimere and. . Hoffman: Yep, because it is misleading to tell them that we're going to address the entire system when we're only asking two questions. I would propose bringing this back in a final version as you're going to see it. 1'11 ask you in the next report to critique it stringently. In fact go ahead and delete sentences and use your own corrections so when you come back next time, we can put a survey out in the street. Andrews: Thanks Todd. I know you put a lot into that so. SOUTH LOTUS LAKE GATE ATTENDANT PROGRAM. . Hoffman: I think this item can be fairly rapid fire. Just brief the issues which are there. Given some history to the park commission, if you've read through that or if you didn't know the history, you probably heard rumors of it. At this point I believe it would be premature. Premature to go ahead and deduct, disassemble or do away with the gate attendant program at South Lotus Lake. It's a politically embedded issue. It would raise considerable debate. The cost of operating the gate house at this time has been reduced to a very minimal. level. That's not to say that we couldn't reduce the cost and administrative even more by eliminating it but we have not only the past issues w~ich were raised with busyness and parking on the streets and environmental issues but now we've got Eurasian Water Milfoil. People on that lake have tagged into the "Gate Attendant" system as being a deterrent to bringing weeds into Lotus Lake. That would be brought up as well if the gate attendant program dissolved. My recommendation to the Commission would be to evaluate the center on another year and to leave the program as it exists in place today. Schroers: That makes sense to me. Lash: I think it's got kind of screwy hours. Noon to 6:00, 7 days a week. How much useage does it get during the week from noon to 6:00? Hoffman: Jerry was on vacation. I took those off of some time cards I found. Ruegemer: That may have been later in the summer. Hoffman: 4:00 to 7:00 during the weekdays. Lash: Yeah, that sounds more. Actually what I kind of had thought was what if we went to 6:00 to 6:00 just on the weekends and just skip the I~eekdays? bo you think people would be upset about that? Hoffman: Weekdays get heavy use after the work day and staffing it from 4:00 to 7:00 is very important. During that 10:00 to- 7:00 on-weekends is important as well. Schroers: The way the recommendation is worded is will gate attendants be scheduled based upon. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 51 Lash: So you're not talking about having it be noon to 6:00 7 days a week? Hoffman: Correct. . Lash: Okay. Hoffman: We'll evaluate when we should be there and go ahead and put them into place. Schroers: Okay. So unless someone has a concern, I would ask for a recommendation or a motion on the recommendation and the recommendation is that South Lotus Lake Gate Attendant program be kept intact as it presently exists with gate attendants being scheduled based upon need. Andrews: So moved. Schroers: Second? Pemrick: Aye. Andrews moved, Pemrick seconded that South Lotus Lake Gate Attendant program be kept intact as it presently exists with gate attendants being scheduled based upon need. All voted in favor and th~ motion carried. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: . A. APPROVE 1992 FOURTH OF 3ULY FIREWORKS CONTRACT. . Ruegemer: Thank you Larry. Typically in the past in working to get a fireworks display for the 4th of July we've always put this up for an open bid procedure. In the past 3-4 years the end result has typically always been the same. The same company getting the bid. Banner Fireworks. In the past they have done a decent job as far as complying with all safety standards and they have really given an excellent show that's really been talked about in-our area as far as the neighboring communities. As far as Chaska's and Eden Prairie's. There's a lot of people that really look forward to our show every 4th of July. So that's why we've just entered into a private contract this year with Banner Fireworks instead of going through the whole procedure again and kind of skipping a few steps and just getting the end result. The fireworks display will be on Saturday the 4th of July at Lake Ann Park and there will be fired from the same area. And to accomplish what we need to accomplish, there will be additional safety standards taken a look at by the Fire Marshall just to insure that we do not have any problems as far as setbacks and that will be addressed before the final contract is approved, signed and returned. The fireworks display will be $6,000.00 and it will include a million dollar public liability and property damage insurance policy and that was bid right into the $6,000.00 price tag so we will not. Last year we had to add additional insurance after the bid had been approved and it cost additional money. This year that was put right into the $6,000.00 figure. Berg: What was the cost last year? . Park and Rec Commission Meeting Februarv 25, 1992 - Page 52 Ruegemer: Roughly $5,600.00. . Berg: And then how much for the insurance? Ruegemer: It came in about $5,200.00 and it was about $500.00 or $600.00 for additional insurance. Lash: So Banner doesn't know that you're not sending it out for bid anymore do they? Ruegemer: No. We just sent a letter stating the fact that we just want to enter into a private contract with Banner. Lash: So they know you're not sending it out to any other? Ruegemer: This year. They're the only ones we sent a letter out to. Lash: You should probably keep that under your hat and let them think they're still bid~ing against other people. Hoffman: You can compare this list to the past list. They're not under cutting our show. Lash: No, they've always done a good job. It's just"when you're doing that kind of stuff, you don't want to let somebody know that they've got an exclusive on it or pretty soon they're going to start jacking their price up. . Ruegemer: Well that's something that we did get strict guidelines to as far as when we send out the letter. A strict price saying with what we expected as far as a dollar amount and insurance amount and what we could get in the price list was comparable to last year's show. Hoffman: If they do that we'd dump them Jan. Lash: Yeah. I just don't want to get jerked around. Ruegemer: So it's staff's recommendation that the Park and Recreation Commission accept the fireworks display bid of $6,000.00 from Banner' Fireworks and we will take a look at adding the additional wordage in coverage for the insurance before we approve the final. Lash: So moved. Berg: Second. Lash moved, Berg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to accept the fireworks display bid of $6,000.00 from Banner Fireworks Display Company. All voted in favor and the motion carried. B. APPROVE 1992 FOURTH OF 3ULY BAND CONTRACT. . Ruegemer: This year in looking ahead to the community picnic for the band, we did take a look at additional bands as far as listening to demo tapes Park and Rec Commission Meeting Febr i lary 25, 1992 - Page 53 and looking to maybe mix it up.a little bit as far as getting out of our, having the same repeat band. But for the dollar amounts and the show that we do receive from the Hi-Topps, there really wasn't any comparison to an~ other bands that we had listened to. I think the Hi-Topps really put on JIr energetic show and really get the crowd involved. I heard that from quite a few, a number of community residents that they really do look forward to every year to have the Hi-Topps here. Now with St. Hubert's involved with it now we'll have to see but for this year I think we will be best suited ,to get the Hi-Topps back and perform. Andrews: When is St. Hubert's doing their engagement with Hi-Topps? Ruegemer: It's already done. Hoffman: It's done. Ruegemer: So it should be scheduled far enough apart where people shouldn't...so we should be okay that way. They're scheduled to perform Friday, July 3rd. That will be the community night and basically it would be the same timeframe from 8:00 until midnight with the same amount of sets and that would be the case. There will be the back up dates and the second play date will be included on the" contract... Lash: Not that this has happened to my knowledge but"in case it did rain and now you've got the Hi-Topps and the fireworks both scheduled for the i 5th of July so how would you do that? Hoffman: In case it rained on both the Friday and saturday night. Boy, ~ that'd be. Pemrick: One heck of a party. A lot of people driving back and forth. Oh no, you can dance and watch the fireworks. It's close enough. Lash: From the dance over to the fireworks or what would you do? Schroers: You said they were both on the 5th but the fireworks was on the 4th. Lash: But if it rained on the 4th. If it rains Friday and Saturday. Not that it would ever do that but if it did, everything is scheduled, the rain date has everything for the 5th. Pemrick: I don't think there's a problem. They can go together. You can be dancing and watching fireworks. Maybe people with kids don't even want to be at the dance and just want to watch fireworks and get home to bed. Lash: Yeah, would it be possible to move the band to Lake Ann? Hoffman: Sure. Lash: Have it all in the same spot. Hoffman: We just might do that. But we've been fortunate, it hasn't rained yet. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 54 Andrews: Last year they were inside though. ~ Hoffman: Yeah, we had that off and on shower deal. Schroers: One other question. Jerry, what about that guitar player that played before the fireworks? Ruegemer: Oh before the fireworks? Jeff Brooks. Schroers: fireworks? Is that his name? Is he going to play again before the I mean people kind of liked that. Ruegemer: Yeah, we had talked about that down in the lakeview area and also adding another person up in the parkview area possibly because there is a lot of people that do sit up there as well. Hoffman: There's more people on top than down below. Ruegemer: Yeah, so maybe just give them a little entertainment value also up in that area because there are a lot of people that do sit up there. I think it'd be very nice to have somebody maybe different music styles. Schroers: Yeah, Eric Clapton or someone. Ruegemer: Sure. Get a little variety up there. ~ Lash: Polka band. Andrews: Prince. Schroers: Okay, so do you need a motion then on B for the band contract? -Ruegemer: Yeah. Just to approve the Topps and $1,300.00. Schroers: Okay, I'll move to approve. Is there a second? Pemrick: I'll second. Schroers moved, Pemrick seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to approve the band contract for the Hi-Topps for the 4th of July Celebration in the amount of $1,300.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Lash: You're going to have the kiddie parade and everything right? Ruegemer: Oh yeah, definitely. C. EVALUATION OF TEEN NIGHT OUT PROGRAM. Ruegemer: This whole concept of the teen night out started last, probably early last summer as far as getting together with...Community Education. We were looking at trying to offer more. That was one of our goals in 1991 is to offer more programs for that age group. We just started to brain storm a little bit and we did kind of formulate like a commission or a ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Pa?e 55 group that did get together and then we were going to offer these types of programs and try to get something going. Something constructive going so . ~ we did invite the Chaska Park and Rec also to get involved with this . project. And as we turned out, we jllSt decided at first we thought maybe we could do it once a month and then once we got going with our first one we thought that it might be a little excessive. It might be a little repetitive if we kept doing it every month. So what we had decided now was just to do it 3 to 4 times a year starti ng off in the fall b\cause there are a lot of other activities going on at that time as far a dther teen night out dances offered by the middle school itself and ski rips and that type of deal so there is a lot of other activities that we weren't aware of at first that are available. So what we're going to be doing is to just to continue to offer those 3 to 4 teen nights out a year starting in October and roughly cover the late fall and winte~ months just to give them something to do when the winter duldrums set in. The activities that we did offer for the teen nights out did include the swimming, volleyball, basketball, giving them something to get their energies out so maybe their parents would get a little rest too so those are all held at the Chaska Middle School and they were from the 6:30 to 9:30 timeframe. That seemed to work out very well as far as kids getting there after supper and then we didn't keep them too late there so it seemed to work out for the best. The admission fee, we weren't really sure what type of response that we were going to get at first so we did set the ~d,ission fee at $3.00 just to help recover some of the costs if we did have a low tGrnout. As it did turn out, we did have quite a favorable response at the first, one. We were pleasantly surprised and we did get some pfett~ ~ice prizes for the first one to try and attract some kids in cOm-in,g' ou.t, ,'as far as grouping together_ and trying to get the business communityinv6~yed a little bit. As far a~ getting pizza coupons and different t-slvirt$ and cassettes'and we did give away a boom box for the grand pr ize and ,,~iJ..1't,hose costs were recovered from admission and concessions. That was th~~firstone. We did have a pretty good turnout for that. The second one w'a.'!J~'~way-eack ill late August I got a letter from KDWB Party Music and as f~i as whaf they' were trying to do was promote the Pepsi license to chill an~ wh~tPe~sidid'was start a program, this license to chill program where they went~out ~o different schools and communities and did offer like a teen night-out program and t.hey would pick up the cost for all this including DJ's anJ prizes and different things like that so we were fortunate enciugh to have that our second time. The December 6th teen night out so we did have all our costs paid for by Pepsi and KDWB and they did give away really nice t-shirt.s and keychains and frisbees. We did have a celebrity DJ,come out. One from KDWB, this Eric Jordan and that was very, very popular with the kids so that was very successful as well. Berg: I would going to add to that, I was going to chastise.you for your sentence about the teens enjoy the presence of a celebrity, especially the girls. So I asked my daughter who was there, is that accurate Rachel and she said oh, ~'m afraid so. Ruegemer: He was very popular with the young ladies. In fact they have jock shots and what they did is, well jock shots is just the picture of the DJ and the time slot they're available and as a promotional deal they printed up flyers for that and have all the information on it including the picture and they did include those in their lockers on the inside so they. Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 56 . can take a look at him every day. But that was the second one. We did have a very good response to that also. The third teen night out we just wanted to go out kind of with a good bang so we did hire this Hollywood Henderson which was an additional cost to us but it was very, the response was very good. It was a lot" of kids coming in to that too. He also brought additional t-shirts and keychains and other prizes to give away. On the average we did have, we had to take a look at all the chaperones too. We had typically about 12 to 15 chaperones at each teen night out just to kind of cover all our bases. Just to maybe put the other parents at ease to have their kids. We wanted to promote a safe atmosphere so parents would feel comfortable dropping their kids off and know that they will be looked after. There's not going to be a mad chaos every time they drop them off so we did cover different exercise. Make sure that as people left they were gone for the night. We didn't allow this revolving door to have people in and out all the time. We just didn't want to have to deal with that. People going out and drinking or whatever they wanted to do. We didn't have any trouble with people drinking and so we were very fortunate with that. We tried to keep our eye on that also. But that did really work out with having that number of chaperones. We did seem to cover all the areas. It worked out very well. All the through chaperones you have an average roughly around 330 teens for teen night out which is well above what we had estimated at first when we had our first one in October and that did represent about 26% of the middl~ school population. We are going to continue this again for next year. We did wrap up our session with the teen night out for this year. We'll not be doing any more but we'll resume those again in October of 1992. I just have a number for you~here. It's one of the, to maybe share what we had went through as far as concessions for all the different teen nights out. As far as the amount of cases of pop, candy bars and hot dogs we did sell and that was the total of what we did go through. And also the gross revenue and our expenditures for .~ach teen night out. . S~hroers: Looks really good Jerry. Lash: I just have a question. Why do you have the gross revenue and then the expenditure so you have your plus thing and then why did you divide it by 3? Ruegemer: Because there's 3 groups involved. The Chaska Park and Rec, Community Education and our. Lash: Well I just had wonderful feedback from my daughter about these. She just thought these were the greatest. My only thing is I wish there was still another coming up because it's only February. Berg: One more would be nice. Lash: Yeah, one more would be nice. And to make sure that it's coordinated somehow around the parties at school beca~se it seemed like some of them got kind of lumped together where there was a teen night and then the very next week it was a school party or something so if you get the schedule from the school. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 57 Ruegemer: That was all part of our learning process also and.. .did approach us, the principle at the Middle School and is taking over .- everything as far as the after school parties and our parties and all tha and it just seems to be a little bit more than we can handle at this point. Lash: Did you have a problem at all with high school kids trying to get in? Ruegemer: Towards the end we did. The first couple we didn't at all and we just had maybe one or two try to get in. Lash: How do you know? Ruegemer: We have different teachers there. Gay Mattson is very knowledgeable in that and we usually have her at the front door. . I was always at the front door. Sometimes it's hard to tell between some of the kids but we try to keep a good handle on it. We didn't have any problems. The reason we're not going any farther as far as why we're ending now in, after the last one, is there's so many other school activities going on now. At first we did project going all the way until May but there weren't any, when it got into March there's all the State tournaments. All the different, wrapping up all the band concerts and all that. We couldn't get a Friday night from now until May. We couldn't get aoy in April. We couldn't get any in March so that's why we didn't do it and we thought well sure, we're going to do one last one in May but the kids were getting, our thought was, once we get closer to the end of school, there's always the possibility that it might be a little bit more rowdy and we didn't want . that to tarnish what we have done up to this point. Because this last January they were starting to get a little bit more obnoxious than they were in the two previous and we thought once they get closer towards the end of school they might really raise some cane so. Lash: So if it's tournaments, can you not have it because there's tournaments or you figured it'd be a conflict? Ruegemer: Oh we could. Conflict. Lash: Because there's a lot of kids that don't go to those things. Ruegemer: Sure. But there's also the adult basketball. Like in February- March. Lash: Somebody else using the facility? Ruegemer: Yes. Schroers: Well that looks like a good successful program Jerry. It's obvious that a lot of work and well thought out planning went into it and it's really nice to see all that effort payoff. Thanks a lot for that. If there's nothing further on the teen night out, we can move to the Adminstrative section. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 58 ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION. . Hoffman: Just one side note. It's always a concern of ours that we put all this effort into going down to Chaska and we haven't done the same at Minnetonka. Just keep your thought process open in that we continue to direct our efforts one direction. We haven't had any negative feedback from it simply because these people in the Minnetonka School District are happy with the services they're receiving out of Minnetonka Community Services, Hopkins-Minnetonka Park and Recreation. If they ever say hey, you're spending staff time and our tax money planning a teen night out at Chaska Elementary, 3 of them and 2 ski trips and you didn't do anything up in Minnetonka. Why not? We just need to be aware of that. Andrews: I uess I had sort of that question in my mind. Lash: Well it's something that, well it wouldn't be that much fun I suppose if they don't know enough kids but it's certainly something that would open to Minnetonka students if they wanted to go wouldn't it? Hoffman: If we want to make that available, we need to advertise that and make that combination and it is, it would be difficult. Pemrick: Yeah, that gets real tough. Hoffman: So it's something that we need to continue to address. . Lash moved, pemrick seconded to adjourn the meeting. and the motion carried. All voted in favor Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim . CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 25, 1992 I Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. Fred Berg, Jim Andrews, Wendy pemrick, Larry Schroers a~ MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash MEMBERS ABSENT: Randy Erickson and Dave Koubsky STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated January 28, 1992 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. RESOLUTIONS: A. STATE OUTDOOR RECREATION GRANT PROGRAM. B. FEDERAL LAND AND WATER CONSERVATION FUND PROGRAM. Hoffman: Chairman Schroers and Commission members. These resolutions were previously, at last evening's meeting presented to City Council as well. It's simply responding to a plea from the Minnesota Recreation and Parks Association to show our support in favor of these prosrams. Both the LAWCON and the State program. We have discussed just as recently as last ~ meeting the parks which have benefitted from the LAWCON dollars being South Lotus Lake, Lake Susan and Lake Ann Park. Funding is becoming critically short in these two programs so they're reaching out to the communities an~ asking staff people, commissioners, council people to give a call down to . their representatives and then as well to sending these resolutions down to MRPA so they can be presented to our state legislators. So upon adoption and approval by the Commission, I'll have Larry Schroers, Chairman Schroers sign the originals after the meeting and send these to MRPA. Schroers: Okay, thanks Todd. Is there any discussion regarding these issues? I can't see why we wouldn't want to show our support for these resolutions. If no one has any reason why we shouldn't, I'll ask for a motion to support the resolutions. Andrews: So moved. Schroers: Is there a second? Pemrick: I'll second. Andrews moved, Pemrick seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve a Resolution urging the State of Minnesota to expand the Funding for the State Outdoor Recreation Grant Program and a Resolution urgaing the expansion of of the Federal Land and Water Conservation Fund Program. All voted in favor and the motion carried. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 2 SITE PLAN REVIEW: BLUFF CREEK SITE. KEYLAND HOMES. JAMES R. HILL. INC.. PLANNERS. ENGINEERS. AND SURVEYORS. . Hoffman: As noted in your packet, item 3 has been pulled at the request of the applicant. It's not due to any mischievious dealings. Simply a death in the family of one of the partners and the home builders so it's taking a little bit more time reviewing the home site and the entire project prior to bringing it in for final approval. So no action is necessary at this time. FINAL AMENDMENTS. CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY PARKS. Hoffman: Chairman Schroers and Commission members, it's been a few since you've seen this document. It's changed in it's appearance. "final version" although it does contain amendments which I've made document after reviewing the information which was discussed at the Commission level. As I've stated in my staff report, it would be necessary for the Commission to review those changes and then as well the items which were discussed by the Commission. Make any noted changes, deletions, and/or additions and then go ahead and adopt the 5 year capital improvement plan. We'll revisit this on a yearly basis and continue to update it. I would presume we would simply just quickly page through these. Take a look at each park. Refresh our memories and. ..potential n~w items which you'd like to discuss, we'll take time to do that. Just go ahead and run right through the entire document. months It is a to the . Schroers: Okay. Do you want me to take this Todd? Okay. We'll start with Bandimere Community Park. It asks for complete a needs assessment study in 1992 and proceed with development of park based on results of the study. I would hope that the results of our survey would help us decide what kind of things the community is going to be looking for in Bandimere Park and from that hopefully we could move forward and start to develop. . Does anyone want to add anything in particular that we want to pay attention to in regards to Bandimere? I think at our special meeting we were all pretty much under the impression that unless we're able to get some kind of referendum funding, that we're going to have a problem with funding Bandimere so I guess at this time we'll have to wait and see how we progress on that. Okay, we'll move along to Bandimere Heights Park. It's a neighborhood park and we're looking for an identification sign and I think we have budgeted for that correct? Hoffman: Correct. Lash: This $8,000.00, that's something that you put in right Todd? Hoffman: Correct. The dark in there, the bold figures are items which as we worked through the 5 year capital improvement plan, it's really a planning process so we take a look at what we potentially would need in that time period. Play equipment at Bandimere Park is approximately 6 years old at this time with a refurbishment of $1,700.00 put in last year. At some point in the future we're going to need to add additional equipment or reburbish the old equipment. That's the only reason for bringing that in. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 3 Lash: Is this ultimately when Bandimere is designed, is this going to be incorporated into that somehow? Or will that be separate? Hoffman: It's been talked about in both veins. Incorporating it and the~ as well not incorporating it. The senses which I feel is most recently been discussed is keeping it separate from the community park as a neighborhood site. Lash: What do you think about that Wendy? ) Pemrick: That's what the neighbors want. keeping that a separate little play area, They're real concer~ed about open space for the kids. Hoffman: It would cause us some parking access problems if it developed as part of this community park. Simply if there were facilities close to Kiowa Trail, people would be accessing the park off of Kiowa instead of parking up on top and walking down to the facility. Pemrick: And it also has quite a steep grade to get It sits down there so it'd be tough to do something. this Todd and I kn~w with weather and everything it's idea when they hope to complete that upgrading? up to the Bandimere. I know I'll be asked hard to say but any Hoffman: The grading? I ,/ Pemrick: Yeah. The regrading. Hoffman: It's work which is being completedl:at"a public works/park . maintenance personnel. They were chaseq out of there py t~e snowfall as well. I've encouraged them to be in ther~~assoon as pO$sible this spring. , t:,' , However it will be planned in conjuncti~tl"w~thstreet sweeping and other activities in the springtime. I wouldrro:t;ile:-thatf&-by the end of June the park would be all buttoned up. Reseeded. The -soccer field is going to be reoriented to north/south instead of east/west< -- And then the play equipment which was removed wi 11 be pulled to- the f'tont of the par k. Pemrick: To the street more? Hoffman: Yeah. Pemrick: Oh, that will be nice. Hoffman: For those commissioners that don't know what occurred, Bandimere has always been kind of a low wet area. Public works informed me that they would be accepting some excess fill material from the TH 101 -project coming through from Market Blvd. down through that new TH 101 piece past .Rosemount. I did not anticipate that they would take the amount of dirt which they did. I was quite displeased when I saw that, however public works people know that. The dirt was there. We looked at the option of removing it would be very costly. .50 what we did in the en~, we picked out all 8 trees which were in there. Caliper trees of about 2 1/2. Had those moved up to Chanhassen Hills Park. Pulled the play structure out of the corner of the park which was really down in a low area and now we completely began the process of regrading the entire park. 50 in the end~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 4 . it will be a much nicer site but it was a round about way of what I envisioned as a refurbishment turned into a total regrading of this park. Schroers: We also voted to put in like a 20 spot aggregate parking lot right off the street there didn't we? Hoffman: Yeah, there's an asphalt parking lot which would probably accommodate about 10 cars. Schroers: Oh it's asphalt? . Hoffman: Asphalt, pull in parking pad. Schroers: Oh I thought we were going to do just aggregate there? Hoffman: Put in as aggregate and then asphalt it. Pemrick: And then the sand volleyball court. I don't think that happened yet. That was listed as being done. Hoffman: In 1991? Pemrick: Yes. Hoffman: I'll take a look at the information which I've given to Dale Gregory and see if he made note of that. There would certainly be room for it with the changes being made down there. . Andrews: Speaking of volleyball courts, have we looked at methods of securing our nets, different methods for next year? Cables or. -Hoffman: Yep. Schroers: Are you talking about tennis nets now or volleyball? Andrews: The volleyball nets. Schroers: What we do is take a plastic coated wire and run it along the top and then in the eyes where it attached, use like U bolts. U clamps and just screw them down tight and they seem to stay in place. But it does take a cable. 1/8 inch coated cable. Hoffman: Okay. Schroers: Okay, let's move along to Bluff Creek. Class as to be incorporated into the Bluff Creek Preservation Zone. I guess I've been here about 5 years now and Bluff Creek is always has been. open space and It seems like, where it's Lash: Where's that again? Schroers: Well that's still somewha~ in question too. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 5 Hoffman: The thing that threw me off on it was that the park boundary as shown on our engineering city map was incorrect. So where I thought the park was off of Bluff Creek Drive, it was not so now that's been correcte.- It's really just a lowland back down in here. Schroers: So basically what we're doing is hoping that somehow we can just incorporate it into a passive use, green space and at this point there's, for the next 5 years, no intent of spending any money on it? Hoffman: Yeah. That's part of the greenway for Bluff Creek and the eventual trail construction. Hopefully that will occ~. Schroers: Carver Beach Park. It's a neighborhood park. $2,200.00 'additional in refurbishment in 1992. Now we did do some work in there in 1991 right? Hoffman: In 1991 we did work at Carver Beach playground. The park up on top. This is refurbishing and installing resilient pea gravel. Schroers: Oh down at the beach? Hoffman: At the beach, yep. The only additional items noted in here are swimming buoys. With the activity, boating activity which we see on Lotus Lake, I feel it's imperative that we mark those'beach areas for some safety aspects. Staggering those purchases of additional marking buoys in 1993 and 1994 and then there is a absence of park benches along that trail which goes from the mini-beach to the main park. you feel that the bouy situation is a safety hazard that WemaYb~ addressing this next year instead of waiting? Lash: Do should be Hoffman: There's currently buoys at the main beach and they're getting old and one sank halfway down last year and so this would be replacing the buoys at the main beach in 1994 and then purchasing buoys for the mini- beach in 1993. It's important that we move ahead in 1993 to purchase buoys for the mini-beach. We can do that. The mini-beach has always been that situation where. nave we officially adopted it or have we have not? The neighborhood which performs much of the work there for the improvement. The city purchased the materials for the swimming raft. The neighborhood put it together. So the raft is out there floating and without a defined area around the swimming area so it's something that we may want to look at. That's my reason for including it. Schroers: Who deals with the liability issues of the city? What I'm concerned about is if we actually mark off a designated swimming area and we're sending that message out and yet it's an unguarded beach. If there would be a drowning or a boating accident in the area, who from the city deals with those lipbility issues and should they be addressed before we start putting bouys out? Hoffman: The City Attorney would. I'm not going to act as even to ponder what the City Attorney would tell us about that but if you want me to investigate that, I certainly will. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 6 . Schroers: I think that it certainly would be to our advantage to cover our bases before we go out and start putting out buoys and I know that there are State ordinances regarding beaches and that sort of thing. Distances from designated areas to buoys and that sort of thing. We would be in an awkward situation if we just went ahead as a park commission and threw a bunch of buoys out there and then we have something unfortunate happen and they came back to us and said, well who told you it was alright to do that? Are you going to assume the liability? Hoffman: Okay. The buoys are currently going out each year for the main beach at Carver Beach. -I would believe that we'd just as much at fault if we didn't mark it as if you did and it's cert~inly going to be if somebody pushed that issue, it's the major fault is going to fall back onto the person causing the injury. Schroers: Well would it be a big deal just to ask the City Attorney? Hoffman: Not at all. Schroers: If we're out of line to do that just so we have our bases covered here and they can't come back at us and accuse us of some wrong doing at some point in the future. Andrews: Are those posted as swim at your own risk beaches? Hoffman: Currently there are no posting. I have to take a look at the sign. There is a sign that's placed 5 or 6 years ago at Carver Beach. . Andrews: I'm sure that'd be part of the coordinated effort would be proper signage about assumption of liability. Schroers: No lifeguard on duty, swim at your own risk. Hoffman: We should include that as part of the swimming buoy and maybe raise that to $1,500.00 each. Signage. Lash: I would think if anything would ever happen there, we would be more liable for negligence by not having it marked than we would be. I mean not that I'm an attorney or anything but that just seems. Schroers: Yeah, that seems logical but things tend to get twisted around so much, I mean you think you're doing the right thing and then all of a sudden you didn't. Andrews: What we've got to be careful of is if the law says 150 feet and we only put 100 feet out, that's worse than probably doing nothing. Schroers: Yeah, if you do it wrong you know. Hoffman: Consider that investigated and do you want to set -some increased amount on those then to include signage? . Schroers: Okay. So on the swimming buoys at the main beach, you want to increase it from $1,000.00 to $1,500.00? Park and Rec Commission Meeting Februqry 25, 1992 - Page 7 Hoffman: I would propose that~ Lash: Is that getting a park sign? . Hoffman: Rule sign? Lash: Is it too late to get that incorporated into that? ~ Hoffman: The general park rules sign? Those are being ordered in a bulk basis. Manufactured each one. I have taken the position that I don't want to sign the parks to death either so we'll try to incorporate it underneath that sign or at the beach location. S~hroers: So if this for both the mini-beach and the main beach then? Hoffman: Correct. Schroers: The additional $500.00? 00 you need a .motion on that? Hoffman.: No, we'll simply adopt the updated as a single motion. Andrews: Just out of curiousity,. what action was taken on the boat issue? Hoffman: Last evening? , Andrews: Yeah, was it the old rule or new rule? Hoffman: Older rule. . Andrews: Okay. Hoffman: With some negotiation taking place because there's dispute between what the city says was out there and what they think is out there. So they're bringing in aerial photographs and family photo albums. Ready to move on Larry. Schroers: Okay, does anyone have anything else on Carver Beach Park? Okay, Carver Beach Playground is next. We have the 10 sign. Replacement of the swing. Addition of two spring animals. Lash: Can I back up for one second? I don't see the park 10 sign for Carver Beach Park in 1992. Hoffman: The park rule sign? Lash: Yes. Hoffman: The rule signs are all incorporated under other improvements. Miscellaneous park rule signs. Lash: Okay, well Carver Beach playground has wood park 10 sign. Hoffman: Oh, that's the large sign, wood sign identifying Carver Beach playground. Identifying the park. Carver Beach Park has that sign. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 8 Schroers: It's not a rules sign? . Hoffman: No. Not a rules sign. as Carver Beach Playground. It's a park ID sign. Labeling the park Schroers: I guess I'm not totally sure what 2 spring animals are. Hoffman: Playground equipment. They're great and they're $500.00 a piece. Lash: .Do we have diggers over there already? Hoffman: Not that. Lash: I like diggers much more than the spring animals but they're a pretty good price aren't they? Schroers: Some little animals dig. Maybe these will be diggers. Pemrick: They can be dangerous though. Lash: The diggers? Pemrick: With cast iron buckets on them and come down on someone's foot or. Not that it happened to us but. Lash: They're very popular. . Pemrick: Yeah, they're great. Schroers: I guess in order not to dwell too much on this, if each of us just kind of glance down the improvements and the dollars propose and if you have a concern or suggestion or an idea, please state 6r else we'll just move right along. Andrews: Let's go on. Schroers: Okay, here we go. Hoffman: Larry, just to interject. I think it can help you if you look at the totals. Certainly not that we're trying to calculate this based on a presumption of what we want to spend in each year but the totals at the end of the, as calculated there give you a little bit of an idea. In 1993 we're above what we can spend. In 1994, $66,000.00, 1995, $85,000.00 and 1996, there's some leeway there. Just to use a baseline. Andrews: We're a little heavy in 1992 and 1993 and a little light in 1994 and 1995 and then kind of back on, quite heavy really in 1996. In today's dollars right? Hoffman: Yeah. Andrews: I think it averages out though pretty close to what we need to be at right? . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - PagQ, 9 Hoffman: It really does. Schroers: Alright, then let's move on to Chanhassen Estates Mini Park. . Lash: There's been requests for play equipment there? Hoffman: .. .question posed to the Commission. Do you feel that it is necessary or not? \ Lash: It seems like the things that we budgeted to come up i\n)the near future were intended more for the employees over in that area. Then in 1996 we've got the play area which then is flipping it back more to neighborhood use so I don't know if we're targeting it more for the industrial area than if we want to start putting playground equipment in there or not. I'm just kind of thinking out loud. I really don't have a feeling. Hoffman: Those are all good thoughts and another thought is not a well defined access to it. There's access through the cul-de-sac but that is not an official access. It would be through somebody's yard. The other thought is McDonald's is right across the street and if you had picnic tables and a piece of play equipment in this area, you're certainly to see use by people getting their lunch and going over to the park. The mini park to eat lunch and play on the equipment. Just a matter of what you would like to develop there at that si~~. /' Andrews: That playground right now is -kind of 'screened off by the trees. You really can't see it from the houses. ~,Q~ess one of my conc?rns the~~ would be that we have to remove a lot of trees out of there to glve I thl~ safe supervision for the parents. I'm no,ti'Sure, also we talked about putti ng a basketball court and a couple ':df' pi'cnic tables- on a 1 acre piece j " , . of ,1a nd doesn't leave much left. ' ,,'. ". -- Schroers: I'd be real happy with theyark ID_.sign and a couple picnic tables and just look at what use it's setting_when that's in place and then maybe at that point we would decide that t~at~s adequate for the area and we would not need the basketball court or the play area. Or one or,the other. Hoffman: Okay. Lash: Yeah, I think I could live with taking that $10,000.00. I think there's other places that need it. Andrews: I agree. I'd like to see that go. Hoffman: Okay. And the basketball court? That was discussed by the commission. Lash: That's something that possibly employees might go use during the lunch hour and if that's the direction we're taking it is more as a place for employees to go, then I don't have' a problem wi th that. And also if that's also for neighborhood use. That's adults and that's older kids whereas play equipment I look at as more for younger kids and I'm not . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 10 comfortable, I wouldn't be comfortable as a parent sending a kid over to play on the play equipment when it's screened so much from the homes but yet it's so easily accessible to the businesses. So I don't have a problem with the basketball. . Schroers: Should we just eliminate then the proposal for play area? Hoffman: Already done. Schroers: Anything else? Okay. Chanhassen Hills Park. Lash: Didn't you say tonight that you took some trees over and installed them? Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: Are we still planning on putting in more then in 1992? Hoffman: We'll take that money to replace, make the trade back to Bandimere. So it's already been established in the Chanhassen Hills budget. We'll just leave it in there and spend the money in Bandimere to replace those trees. The only addition here is again the play areas in a first phase. There's a second phase designed and planned. If it's the Commission's wish to see that carried out in 1996 or Deyond, it can be labeled there either as a 1996 or 1996 and beyond. . Berg: When you say play area expansion, what exactly are you talking about? Hoffman: Play areas are typically designed in two phases. Two or three phases and when the area is bordered off and the pea gravel's installed, . it's built large enough for all phases. In the first phase the play equipment is built, purchased and constructed and usually it's for, either the older age group kids or younger age group and then the second phase is deferred. Purchase of that is deferred until some point in the future and when it can be purchased and installed as a second phase, the space is already there. The surface is there. You just go ahead and buy the additional equipment. Schroers: That's nice in a new development with people moving in with younger kids. You can install the young, the small for younger age group equipment first and then the second phase.. .as the neighborhood grows, their facilities grow along with it. Lash: You'll find Fred that $10,000.00 does not buy much playground equipment. Berg: I wouldn't think so. Schroers: When you look at $10,000.00, you go oh boy. Lash: Right. And typically Phase lis about $10,000.00 so there's not much there. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 11 Hoffman: A side note. We're going to be looking at less for our money with the new ADA, American with Disabilities Act. We'll be needing to address access to these new play structures which would include a hard .. surface from an accessible parking area or on street parking or bituminou trail, into the play structure with then a resilient mat.. A rubber mat surface up to either a transfer point or a ramp on the play structure... swings in your area and then the play structure, you have to provide the access to both of those. Lash: I'm afraid our budget won't even be covering putting in totlots anymore. Hoffman: Equal access becomes an expensive. Looking for some Community -Development Block Grant monies again in 1992 for remodeling or refurbishing Lake Ann structures in our major community parks to bring those up to speed but the jury isn't fully out on what compliance is but reasonable compliance has been labeled as providing reasonable access to transfer points on play structures for persons with any type of disability. Whether it be physical, mental. It's the law. Schroers: They should pass a funding amendment along with the law. Okay, does anyone have other concerns regarding Chanhassen Hills? Hoffman: Is there a feeling, should that be 1996 or should it be beyond that? Schroers: For the play area expansion? . Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: That's as far away as I'd like to see it. That park would be near completion then wouldn't it? Hoffman: Near completion and as well Chanhassen Hills development will be fully developed by then. Schroers: Well as he said, we'll be looking at this each year and as we get to like 1993 or 1994, we'll have a better idea if we want to put it beyond so I don't think we need to be concerned with that. Lash: And typically our pattern has been give them something this year and skip the next year. And 1993 is pretty heavy because of the $30,000.00 but then they've got 2 years with nothing so I ;think that's kind of a nice balance. Schroers: Alright. Chanhassen Pond. 16 acres of open space. Lash: We've got in 1992 a park ID and in 1993 a park ID. Hoffman: That would be to facilitate signing of all entrances of the park so there's currently a sign at Laredo. The sign this year will go in on Kerber Blvd.. That park in 1993 would be installed down off of... The only other item of note there is the $4,000.00 to replace the stairs. Those were constructed by an Eagle Scout. They are becoming increasingly, each. Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 12 . year they're just falling apart. We pullout rerod and rerods are being bent over and continue to wash out. We may in fact not even want to replace the stairs and just allow that area to be traveled without stairs. Just using incline. For any of those who have walked it, you may have an opinion on that. If we just take out the stairs when they've lived out their livelihood and either replace it with asphalt or the aggregate base. Larry, you've probably been there. Schroers: Yeah. Lash: I've been there too but I can't remember where the stairs are. Hoffman: They come down off of Laredo. Laredo, the traill access is blacktop to the top of the hill and then the stairs go down. There's a trail alongside the stairs which probably receives 75% of the use, which is just a gravel trail. Schroers: You almost have to believe though that if we put in an aggregate trail in place of the steps, with a heavy rain we'd be constantly trying to push the stuff back up the hill. I think on a grade like that we'd be further ahead to throw out an asphalt patch on it. Hoffman: We can asphalt that down to the bridge and then the little short segment on the other side and that would then complete that asphalt trail link through there with that giving access to the turf walk around the entire look of the pond. . Schroers: Well there again we're talking about 1996 and we can just kind of monitor the rate of deterioration. Take a look at it end season this year and see how it looks and I guess if it gets to a point where it's a safety concern, we may have to address that before 1996. Hoffman: Okay. Schroers: Otherwise I like what I see about pretty much leaving it as is and not developing. Hoffman: I received one call there, actually requesting the wood park ID sign in 1993 after it was included. This person informed me that she thinks her neighbors don't even know it's a park. They just think it's a big open space behind their yards and they can use it however they want. For the park rules sign and the park ID sign, will help alleviate those kind of thoughts. Schroers: 50% shared. Okay. We'll move onto City Center. The play area expansion, So we are doing a $20,000.00 expansion? Hoffman: In '92 hopefully. The school district has not gotten back to me on that as of yet. If they fund their $10,000.00, we'll go ahead and purchase and have that installed. The Commission needs to discuss if they would like to enter into an additional agreement with the school district to purchase the third and final phase and if so, when that should be. That's what the $12,000.00 represents in 1994. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 13 Schroers: I think that that may have some question regarding what happens with a development of the City Center Park, if it's going to be included with the new plan with the bandshell and all that sort of thing. . Hoffman: That would have no effect on this structure. Schroers: None whatsoever? Hoffman: None whatsoever. This is strictly dealing with the play element which is on the west side of ' the school. The border is wholly developed. It's already there. It's just Phase 2 and Phase 3 are left to be purchased. Lash: I think 1994 is the soonest that we'd anticipate looking at the numbers. The totals that on the last page, that's the soonest we could do it. I have a question on the basketball poles and standards. I thought those went in already? Hoffman: They did go in. The condition of them, and we may in fact be able to get by with those. they came through the winter. Those were the old reinstalled so they were bent bac~ into shape and simply will not purchase those... we remanufactured them We'll take a look at how poles which were used and if they hold up, we'll Schroers: Okay. Any other thoughts regarding City Center? Andrews: The warming house seems to be kind of an issue. We're not allocating anything to patch that up year to year. Is that just one of . general maintenance dollars? Hoffman: We allocated money for reshingling. The building has gotten to the point where general maintenance can be included in our maintenance budget. It's not worth doing anything .elaborate simply because it's getting to the end of it's livelihood. Lash: How about the tennis courts? work? Are they going to be needing more Hoffman: That's a good point. crack repair. Redone in 1991. As far as to repaint, resurface, do some Probably by about 1994. Lash: Did we put wind screen up there or are we putting plantings around there or what were we doing? Hoffman: Generally my recollection on what the commission has been talking about is to do away with wind screens. Just too expensive and does not last and go with plantings. Lash: Have we done that? Hoffman: Yes...What tennis courts, I would estimate there's 4 courts there. Probably $3,000.00 to $5,000.00 in 1994 eventually for an expenditure. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 14 Schroers: Well we do want to keep those up and give them maintenance as needed, when needed or it's going to turn into a lot larger cost. . Andrews: About $3,000.00 or $4,000.00. will resurface and repaint on those? Hoffman: Yeah, $4,000.00 in 1994. as time goes on. Since it was not which we did, we'll monitor that. may last. Keep whipping Lar. That's saying we'll take a look at that replaced yet but was a patch operation Those cracks may come back earlier or Schroers: Curry Farms. Lash: It looks kind of bleak. Schroers: It does. Lash: Are we done there? Hoffman: Essentially the Commission has responded to their desires and the park is essentially complete. Schroers: Why are we doing the soils test? Hoffman: That's for the tennis court. . Lash: But then we don't have any money budgeted anywhere in there for it so you're assuming it's not going to pass the test? Hoffman: I'm assuming it's going to fail the test. There will be a recommendation along with that to what action could be taken to remedy that. That would be considerable excavation. In fact, it's at the commission's will to even make that decision at the commission level and . say we just really don't-believe that a court can ever be built there and withstand the poor soil conditions and weather that so we may want to take the posit.ion that. we don't spend the $2,500.00 in the soil study either and amend the master plan for Curry Farms through a neighborhood meeting. Lash: Is there somet.hing else you could think of that. we could do t.here instead of a tennis court? Have they requested anything else or are they happy? Hoffman: Not that I know of. We certainly did not replace it with anything, hard court surface. They have a ballfield, sand volleyball and piece of play equipment and the trail so it. becomes some additional open space. Schroers: Well I guess I like that idea. I mean if we have a good reason t.o believe, I mean if we are fairly sure that it's going to fail the test, we could certainly use that $2,500.00 better. Lash: Has that been fully landscaped? I would rather see the money go towards some nice trees and some landscaping along the trail or at the entrance. I haven't been down there and looked at it for a while but it . was pretty bleak the last time I,saw it. Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 15 Hoffman: There were some trees which went in with the initial development but inch, inch and a quarter caliper. Schroers: Let's scratch the soils test then. notify the residents of that? Of Curry Farms. Do you feel that you need ~ Hoffman: That would be my, we can certainly make a change to a master plan without notification. It's at your discretion whether you WiUI)d want to do that or not. \ Schroers: The situation that I want to avoid is having peopl~ show up at . our meeting and say we were promised this. Why weren't we told? Why didn't somebody explain to us what was going on? We're sitting here with our new tennis rackets ready to go. Hoffman: I would propose that we send a letter to the residents stating the reasons why the master plan has been amended. If you have concerns, to call. If there was sufficient concern, to hold a public hearing. - Schroers: Sounds appropriate. Lash: Can we designate that money to go ~ore towards some landscaping efforts instead? Schroers: I , Yeah, leave the money in CurTY Farms~ Hoffman: I did receive comment this winter o.n 'a skati ng. The closest skating to there was either down to City Cent~r'ParR or-over to Carver . Beach playground so. .' Lash: . ' l';.. /r - .>'~-- Carver Beach playground isn't th~~cfar: 1 . . . ~o[... ., . Hoffman: No, it's not. It's just not,Tight in my back yard. And it's a part of, you'll. notice the estimates for installing electricity up to these sites with a light for family ~kating~nd t~e~installation'of the warming house was included. I would anticipate that '1 will bring back to the Commission a study on distribution of our Open skating areas. Do we want to move ahead with the plan to run electricity into those sites? Holding of the neighborhood meetings to discuss that sometime in the June/July timeframe this year so we get another chance to take a look at the skating rink issue. -- La~h: Would this site lend itself well to skating? Hoffman: No, because of the hill which is there to.. .water truck from getting onto the park site. There is a pond there which is partially in the rear lots. Lot lines go to the middle of the pond and it comes into the park. We received requests to maintain parks, it would be my recommendation that we take a stance, even in Pheasant Hill where we've been maintaining that, to simply not provide any maintenance to holding pond areas. I don't know if you're all privy to the story where the bobcat' went through Pheasant Hill Park. Through the Pheasant Hill neighborhood skating pond. Not our bobcat. The City received, has gone up there and flooded the area from driving the truck,uP to the pond and taking the hos~ Pa,k and Rec Commission Meeting Feb,ua,y 25, 1992 - Page 16 . down and flooding it, the ,ink, and that has taken place fo, the p,evious 2 yea,s to this yea,. After the neighborhood has gone ahead and cleaned out the a,ea and installed their lights and that type of thing. So they got used to that. Then this year with the heavy snow they said boy, none of the residents, none of the neighbors want to go down there and shovel that heavy snow off so they called us. Said can you bring a truck or a bobcat out to take a look at that? Received numerous requests over about a week and a half. It was a Tuesday we went out there and drilled some holes. There was about 12 to 14 inches of ice. Both Dale Gregory and I said, heck, that's enough ice to hold a bobcat or a truck. Dale said I'll be out here Thursday or Friday. Wednesday was the mid-week holiday, Martin Luther King Day I believe. On Wednesday a contractor got antsy. Got some calls from residents and took his bobcat out there and fell through that 12 inches of ice. Cracked through and took him 7 hours to haul his bobcat out of there, $8,000.00 worth of damage. So you have never, I thought that was safe for sure but he got up close to the edge and the ice was able to compress enough into the mud, because the mud wasn't solid frozen with the mild winter we had. It cracked up behind him and when he backed up he fell through. So we should take the position, my recommendation that we do not, to cease maintaining, assisting to maintain ponds, storm water retention areas, that type of thing. We receive those requests on an annual basis as well. Just all these side notes taking up too much time. But they're interesting stories. Schroers: Okay. Good story. Greenwood Shores Park. I guess I'd like to plug in about $25,000.00 for a parking lot. . Lash: What a jokester. Andrews: We should have signs out on TH 5 directing people to the park too. . Lash: I want to know what the problem is with the volleyball. It's the only thing we've ever asked for. Schroers: It's a trade off for the parking. Lash: I guess. I mean we play volleyball down there so there's obviously room for it. Hoffman: Below the hill would you propose or above the hill? Lash: Well, I think they've set it up in both places. Just beyond the gravel thing they've set it up and then farther down they've set it up so, and just use the white markings. Hoffman: It take up that to e,osion. It's a small would fit. It's such a small area to begin much area with sand, does it distract from, And then we open up that area. It could. be area. with that if we it's susceptable put in there. Lash: I agree it's a small area and personally I don~t really care if it's there or not. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 17 Andrews: I think if you put a volleyball court in, in my opinion it's hard to justify that you shouldn't have parking nearby because I think it's .. blatantly unfair to say well we can have a volleyball court anyway but you're not welcome to use it. Lash: You're welcome to use it. Andrews: But just don't drive your car. It's like. Schroers: We don't even want to get into this. Andrews: It's not right. Schroers: This issue right now. My concern would be that we have already lost or are losing a couple nice trees down there. As far as I know there was a couple marked. I believe I saw marks on a couple of trees down there and I looked at the trees and I said, oh no. Why do these trees have to go? And the deal is, if you put in a sand volleyball court, you have to dig down about a foot and I'd be concerned about doing any root damage. Hoffman: There's that large oak tree right on the edge of the hill. The other thing is that that bituminous trail that ends down there, at some point I believe that should be connected up with the .oad simply for accessibility from going from hard surface to hard surface. From the road to the trail. That would make sense. Lash: Excuse but just when you said that it got me thinking, I heard a . comment from a neighbor there who said it is so ripped up, the whole hill is so ripped up from. Hoffman: The sewer. Lash: Yeah, and how in the world is that going to be repaired this spring. I'm afraid any grass seed or anything that's put down is just going to be washed right down the hill. Hoffman: Well we're thinking as the same thing that we'll do over in Lake Ann to make crosses between the ballfields. It will be worst at Lake Ann. Is to go ahead and put down temporary gravel on a certain section and then grass the remainder of it. Let the grass establish itself for a year. The following year or two later, take out the gravel and put down topsoil and reseed that area. Simply because it has been ripped up. The ADA does address as well accessibility for parking, no parking. Hard surface trail connections. That type of thing so it's all part of that. Lash: Well it ends up with people walking and riding their bikes down to the trail, that there's a strip with no, you know getting ripped up to the point where there's no grass growing. Schroers: Especially right at the very, where the trail comes in at the edge of the park. There's a puddle there usually. Even if it hasn't rained recently, it's muddy there. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 18 . Hoffman: If the commission's in favor of that, that's a project that's small enough that if we end up with additional time, asphalt or gravel, that project could be done in house on probably a single day or two. Schroers: It wouldn't bother me if it was done; Unless you think then that the neighbors would not want the paved path going up through. Lash: I don't think it would make any difference to anybody. If you're riding your bike down there, and I do that quite often. The hill is so steep that you're going about 80 mph by the time you hit the flat land anyway and if you're going down over all those bumps and the tree roots and everything else, that can be kind of a scarey ride. Hoffman: Okay. Anything else in Greenwood? Lash: You've got picnic tables and grills. Are you talking about adding more picnic tables? Hoffman: Yeah. The Commission had talked about that in. Lash: I mean the ones that are there are fine. As long as we keep them chained down. Schroers: Do you feel that there's a need for more? . Lash: I think is there 2 or 3 there now? I don't know. 3 seems adequate unless there's ever large groups. A lot of people down there at once. It wouldn't hurt I guess. Schroers: I guess it seems to me that maybe once or twice I've ever seen people on more than one table at a time. I don't know if it pays to spend $1,300.00 on two tables that are just going to sit there and not be used. Hoffman: We can take a look at it in 1993. Lash: We may not have any left in 1993. Schroers: Herman Field. First phase play area with border wood and pea gravel for 1992, $13,000.00. Superdeck boardwalk, $6,000.00. I still, I have a problem with that personally. Picnic tables and play area bench. $1,500.00 for a total of $20,500.00 in 1992. I think that it's good. It's been a long time coming and it will be nice to see something get done there. I think that we are going to regret the superdeck. That's my opinion. Hoffman: Because? Schraers: You c~n consult Lowry Nature Center at Carver Park about a deck through the wetlands. It's a really a high maintenance item. Hard to work on and once it's in, hard to get it back out again. . Hoffman: That's essentially the reason for the high price tag here. If we were to build our own, when was that replaced out at Carver? Just this last fall? Park a ,d Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 19 Schroers: Y~s. Hoffman: I saw it in the Seasons Magazine for total expenditures but thO~ are a wood structure. This is the superdeck, plastic. Black plastic with either the green brown, white top and once you put it in, it's in. It essentially never will have to be maintained or removed. It does not have to removed during the winter. There's water present there. It's fairly indestructable. Schroers: Is that a solid or does it have slots in it like the wooden ones that are built that have spaces inbetween? Hoffman: No slots. It's solid. Have you swam and sat up on the raft at Lake Ann? Schroers: Yeah. Hoffman: Same, exact same material. In fact exactly same manufacturer, different color material obviously. You want it to blend. It's not the white. There are certainly boardwalk nightmares out there. Baldour Park of Carver County Parks is worst. . That thing is like a Walt Disney ride to take a walk out on that thing. Schroers: ~ one of the guys on it campers. the park. I missed that project by about 2 days at Carver Park and it was luckiest things to ever happen to me all year. I know the other were this deep in muck for 3 weeks and they weren't happy . Anyway, I hope that this will work out and be a nice feature t Lash: I guess I'd look at 1996 and see how high the total on the back is and I would opt to maybe push the play area expansion up a little. Andrews: I had a comment about would this be a site we'd want to look at for a hockey rink. Because there's not much up on that end of town for people to use as an ice rink and if that's the case, do we want to look at some money for electrical being brought in? Like maybe the tennis court project. Lash: That'd be expensive. Andrews: Well there's no ice surface that I'm aware of anywhere near there. Lash: Yeah, there's Minnewashta. Hoffman: Minnewashta Heights has the family rink. Cathcart Park has the hockey facilities. Andrews: Across the street and down a little ways? Schroers: Well it's probably a couple of miles but our original intent in looking at Herman Field, we had also discussed some diversity in our parks and we kind of talked about hiking in there since it is kind of pretty 90~ size and that the hiking trails could be used by residents for cross ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 20 . country skiing in the winter and that that would maybe kind of take the place of skating. Lash: I think there was also the general consensus at the time that this was to be more of a natural, passive park although I see we're putting in a tennis court. Hoffman: Yeah, that was my surprise too that the resident survey came back with a request for tennis courts. Other than Pheasant Hill Park, those are the two most recent neighborhood parks and they're also going to be the two in my opinion, some of the two of the nicest neighborhood parks in the city simply because of the adverse topography which was there and natural features. That type of thing. The only other thing to consider, from staff's point of view, would be the letter back from Carver County park board stating that they would be in favor of making that trail connection to Carver County Park system. However they are not in the position to finance that. Being a bridge crossing, it would be on their property in the Minnewa~ihta Regional Park. If we would like to see that occur, we would need to go ahead and provide funding for that. Lash: About how much would that be roughly? Hoffman: Rough estimate, depending on the magnitude of the bridging is really the. . Andrews: What you're saying is they're asking us to pay for a structure on their property? Hoffman: Correct. Schroers: Which I think we won't do because if we get into that, especially with the new 9isabled persons program, that would have to be a . considerable bridge...if somebody would come and do that for us on our property but it's not likely to happen. Lash: Maybe Victoria will do it. Be neighborly. Little turn around here. Hoffman: That we have to be presented with it because the connection is a natural. To be a resident of that area and to have the opportunity to walk down into that neighborhood park and walk into Minnewashta Park would be great but if you don't make the connection, what you walk up to is a 5 foot high chainlink fence. Schroers: I'm not opposed to having someone assess the situation and bring back a cost and see what it would entail. We'd certainly be willing to look at that. But without that information for us to say well, yeah, let's budget a couple thousand dollars and see where we'd get with that, I'd rather not do that until we have an idea what it's going to. take. Hoffman: We'll investigate it and address it in 1993. . Andrews: The other question I had about Herman was that we talked about, I don't remember where we ended up on providing lighting on that trail. In Park and Rec Commission t,jeeting February 25, 1992 - Page 21 the woods it's kind of dark. ago. We talked about that at one time a long time . Hoffman: No lighting has been installed in the park. In the parking lot. Lash: I think we'd have major uproar from the neighbors. Andrews: I ',m not stati ng I'm for or agai nst it. I just remJm, ,~er we had talked about it. \ Schroers: There was concern from the neighbors about security on their property but I think it was more in the form of fencing rather than lighting. Andrews: Okay. Lash: It will be interesting to see how this goes. Schroers: You know everyone's apprehensive until they got a nice park in their neighborhood and then they like it. Anything else on Herman Field? Okay, Lake Ann. 1992. We've got everythjng. That should wrap up the program on Lake Ann. Should be just ducky for 4 years right? . I /'. Hoffman: Pretty much what it does. / Schroers: Alright. I like it. e i,~,- \ . Lash: What's the picnic shelter par k par kview,; $50 ,oog .OO? . ~':;1' Hoffman: That's a picnic shel ter whichl\Ja~ :discussed on- par kview preservation picnic area. A slab shelte:'l?wi-th ~cover on it. The ball field rest rooms, concession is beycind 1996.- < , ~ Lash: Is parkview up by the ballfield.or up above,' up by like where the horseshoes? Hoffman: Yep. Where the horseshoes are. Schroers: Why are we planning now for it? Hoffman: For the chase program? Same thing you use with Hennepin Parks. Schroers: The which program? Hoffman: Water patrol, water safety. A chase boat. Well there's a lifeguard and really a staff boat. We're renting canoes, playaks and that type of thing and they get in a high wind and end up on the other side of the lake tipped over, we need somebody to head on over there. Lash: So it's just for emergencies? Hoffman: Correct. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 22 . Schroers: Well you're getting a good deal if you can get a motor for $750.00. Hoffman: Got a quote. Schroers: Okay. I guess that's all in place. Okay, we'll move on then to, Lake Ann is continued then. Is that what this general is? Hoffman: Correct. Schroers: Okay. Let's go to Lake Susan then if no one has anything further on Lake Ann. Lash: What's the bituminous trail loop? Hoffman: At Lake Ann? Lash: Yeah. Hoffman: The trail loop was brushed out not this winter but the following, late last spring. The wooded portion. Lash: Oh. . Hoffman: We'll take a look at that and reassess that as that goes. We'll install it first in aggregate and see how that works and then go ahead and put down bituminous... The only segment of the park which was unused, the path that was used by running a trail through there. We'll just add another compenent to Lake Ann Park which is presently not there. Lash: Natural would be nice. Schroers: I don't recall that we had to do this archery range in phases. Hoffman: Replacement targets. Andrews: I want to get back to Lake Ann a second. On that stairway down from up on the hill down to the beach. This is only a comment. I don't know what we can do about it but 4th of July, that sucker's a killer coming up there, especially if there's somebody who's managed to get in the car quickly and turn on their headlights that are right in your face and you can't see a thing coming off the.stairway. I don't know iT we're going to get any electrical anywhere near there where we can have some sort of lighting. Something. I know it's in poor condition too. It's all eroded out and you have the people walking on the side that have eroded it and then you've got the.. .stairway so. Hoffman: Electrical will, the closest it will be is the shelter. Andrews: That's about how far away would that be from the top of the hill there. . Hoffman: 1,000 feet. Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 23 Lash: Is there, I can't remember from the old plan now but there.'s a way to get from the bottom part of the picnic shelter to the top part of the. picnic shelter. Could that just be continued all the way up so that woul be a new way to get from the beach level up to the parkview? Schroers: Well, it will be. Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: ...have to be lighted couldn't it? Hoffman: There's a walkout on the upper level and onto the lower level ,there are steps that come up alongside there. Schroers: Lighting is kind of a tricky deal along walkways and that type of place. You have about two options. You have like the ballard type that just kind of lines and it really doesn't illuminate anything. It just defines the walking space. And then you have the overhead on a pole and they both have their short comings. Very, very expensive. The ones that line the sidewalk will find a way to get run over or busted up for sure. And the overhead are really hard to change the light bulbs and that sort of thing. And the cost is incredible. That lighting is just crazy. Andrews: I recognize if you're 1,000 feet away from electricity you've got a cost problem. I guess I'm thinking here, at least for the 4th of July that, as long as I'm thinking of the lighting and how the last 2 years I've been there I've seen people take some pretty bad falls on that step. Thae maybe at the very least we could ask our public safety officers maybe to stand along there with their flashlights...because I know personally I took a heck of a header on one of those missing a step. Hoffman: We can address that. Andrews: It would save somebody an injury and wouldn't be very costly to do that. Schroers: Possibly maintenance could look at improving those steps a little bit. Andrews: They're bad but it's not that the steps are so bad, it's just that you cannot see and they're not a regular intervals so you can't time it. · Hoffman: They're hard to walk up in the daytime. We have a lot to discuss so we'll take a look at this so if we just want it as Larry said, just give a brief overview and get through it. Schroers: Oka~~ Lake Susan. Looks good. We're going to be doing some good improvements there for 1992 and also a major lighting in 1993 and I think that will be something to look forward to. Meadow Green. Lash: What about the backstops? Are they still good? Hoffman: They're in good shape that I know of... . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 24 Schroers: I think the bleacher will be up, a nice addition down there too. . Lash: Fred, you live right over there. that that park's lacking? Is there anything you can think of Berg: No. Nice area. Schroers: Okay, then let's go to Minnewashta Heights. Is there any type of a shelter or skate changing area included along with the skating rink? Hoffman: With that $6,000.00? It's not been included to date. The $6,000.00 in 1993 is intended to bring the electricity in and implement the portable warming house system. Then those portable warming houses would need to be budgeted as part of the annual recreation program budget. Schroers: And they're about $3,000.00 a season? Hoffman: No, considerably less than that. What did I bring back.. Lash: They're more like $600.00 or something. Hoffman: Yeah. Schroers: Those are the types that are like a trailer house? Hoffman: Correct. . Lash: In looking at this, it seems like I remember reading a park, kind of a survey thing that you guys had done as far as useage and that there was reports from Dale and this was a couple of years ago. I don't know if it's changed now but he'd go out there to flood it or plow it and it had not been used or maybe had been used once in several weeks previous. Is that getting more useage now than it was? Hoffman: That's changed. Yeah, I began at that point to send out some signals to the neighborhood that there's a potential that we would consider discontinuing that ice rink and calls started to come in and I drive TH 7 quite often and this winter I noticed skating going on there. Lash: Okay, is that lady that came in here about the play equipment had said that there had gotten to be more kids out there so I just was hesitant to spend $6,000.00 running electric out there to put in a warming house if it wasn't being used. Hoffman: In fact a side note on that one is that there is a street light in that park and we may be able to run it right off of that street light, depending on the load capacity which that wire can maintain. Schroers: Okay, so in this $6,000.00 then is included the rental. Hoffman: Would be included in the 145 Recreational Annual budget. General operating budget. . Schroers: Oh okay. So we don't even have to budget for that then? Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 25 Hoffman: No. Schroers: Okay. Then if there's not anything further on Minnewashta Heights, look at North Lotus Lake. . Andrews: My park. Schroers: Jim. My only comment would be on the tennis courts. Probably needing a touch up probably fairly soon actually. Hoffman: 1993. Lash: How about 1994? We're on $66,000.00 in 1994. Andrews: I think it's a matter of the sooner the better. They were in good shape last year but they're starting to crack. The one thing I really noticed is all the fencing and all the standards are all breaking out of the asphalt. Not that they really do much anyway but that's something that would be...looked at. But as far as resurfacing, I think you could probably go oh I would think probably 1993 or 1994 would be okay. But it should be done by then I would think. Hoffman: I'll make a note of that and have somebody out and take a look at both North Lotus and Meadow Green which were built, constructed the same ~ year. Andrews: As far as the skating rink goes, I'll make a comment there. Th~ rink gets a tremendous amount of use. If there's anything there that cou~ -be done to provide more ice surface. There was more than one occasion where the hockey players and the figure skaters couldn't find-enough ice to share without some conflict. Hoffman: This application at the hockey rink with the lights and boards installed, we would need to move the open skate area down onto the ballfield area. I understand it's all tiered out there. Lash: That's a nice transition though to go in 1993 to the lights and then a couple years later build a hockey rink. That would give us a good feel for the useage. Andrews: It's sure been busy this year. Hoffman: The comments that I've heard is that the play area was wholly inadequate from that neighborhood. It's small, initial phase. Andrews: I don't think there's many you can do that would be perfect. I mean there's kids of all ages now. It's not just young kids so the swing sets were a big help. But I think the main thing with that park that it provides what the kids really like .is the open space, the ballfield and the soccer area and stuff. That's the use that gets the most of. There are a lot of people that go up for the playground. Parking's a real problem, especially now with the summer soccer leagues going in there. You have 2 or 3 teams on the field at one time. There's cars allover the place and. that's going to become a problem. Eventually it will come to the Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 26 . commission or to the City Council. Whether there's going to be some demands made. Last year was the first year they were parking, they filled up the upper lot plus Fox Hollow plus Pleasant View were all full of cars. Hoffman: The biggest parking lot besides Meadow Green in any neighborhood park. Andrews: It's a big park facility. Like I said, you get a ball team plus two soccer teams out there practicing, it's pretty crowded. One other comment would be the grass conditions you might want to take a look at in the spring. Maybe it's some scheduling or some treatments, maybe you could make it a little stronger. It was in pretty bad shape last fall. It might be a situation we may want to try to restrict some useage early in the season to give you a chance to fill in so you don't kill it. Schroers: Is that it? Andrews: That's it. Don't need any more money. Just take care of it. Schroers: Looks to me like we're not going to spend any time on Pheasant Hill. We're spending $20,000.00 for the engineering and the grading and that sort of thing so it kind of looKs like it's going to take care of 1992 and nothing planned for 1993 and 1994 is too far off to consider. Lash: If we can't get a tennis court in at Curry Farms, I guess I would think that Pheasant Hills is going to be the next logical place for one that the people in Curry Farms could use. I know that's a lot of money but somewhere in there it's got to get. . Hoffman: Put in. Lash: Yes. Maybe not too far beyond 1996. Schroers: Okay, Power Hill. Weren't we discussing something regarding a sliding hill in Power Hill? Hoffman: Yes. Schroers: And where are we at with that? Hoffman: That would be part of the initial improvement in 1993~ Depending on what expense that initial development goes to. That $10,000.00 may not cover the cost. It all depends on the amount of grading and seed we purchase. That type of, thing. This park has received a lot of attention in the past 2 to 3 weeks in the form of inquiries. Flamingo Drive is going through. They're selling lots along Flamingo Drive which borders that entire segment of Power Hill Park...what facilities will be constructed there. The people from North Dakota asked if there will be trees. Lash: You say no. You'll feel right at home. Hoffman: Yeah, it will be pretty flat for a while. It used to be a cornfield. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 27 Schroers: Okay, so then basically where we're at with the sliding hill depends on how we do with our 1993 grading, seeding? . Hoffman: Yeah. As the road goes in there and the boundary of the park begins to get defined, in this coming year I'll be able to ~et a better handle on that and we'll go ahead and stick a defined figur~ in there for 1993. Lash: Do we want to put some money in there for trees? ) Hoffman: Certainly. Andrews: That would make sense in 1994 I would think. It's a light year. Schroers: How much do we need for trees? Andrews: I think you need at least $1,000.00 if it looks like anything. Hoffman: $1,000.00 won't get you far, yeah. $5,000.00 will get you a reasonable planting program. Planting programs in parks, Bandimere Park, you could spend $15,000.00-$20,000.00 on fandscaping. Schroers: $2,500.00? Can we split the difference ~h& just rook at like maybe ,. .,' ,/ Hoffman: Yes. Lash: You know when we see these master Pla'~~, come in for ..these thi ngs, . they always look so nice you know because,.,ti1ey. have atl these trees and shrubs and all these things allover an?_;you'think, oh that's really going to .be nice. I just don't ever see thatA..ha,t. ev~ happens. Do we ever get ,",,- .(,. - , the shrubbery? I know we plunk a few't;.-rees in-but do we ever end up with really the whole landscaping p~ckage? - Hoffman: It's beginning to happen more of ten- now. We've followed that concept in Sunset Ridge Par k. At least tryi'ng to follow the -plans. - Pheasant Hill Park as well. Chanhassen Hills to a certain degree. They're put in there as an architectural feature drawing. If we do believe they're" too misleading, we should address that at the time that we approve the master plan. Say either shown to a reasonable degree or take them out all together. Lash: I guess I'm naive but when I have always seen all the stuff, until you just said that, I just assumed that that all got put in when it was developed. I didn't know that it was sort of for fill. Hoffman: It's something which we may want to take a look at but a planting plan or a landscaping plan for the parks is something which has just kind of occurred naturally through a tree farm or purchasing some trees here and there over the years. Trees are getting to be more and more a hot topic. Lash: We're the Tree Board. Hoffman: You bet. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 28 Lash: We should be the shrub board too. . Schroers: Okay moving along to Prairie Knoll. Nothing is happening there until 1994 so we probably don't need to spend any time on that one. Andrews: Time out. I know we're heavy on the budget in 1996 and light in 1995. Would it make sense to, from a budget standpoint to move the play area for 1996 into 1995 to kind of smooth things out and maybe make those people happier one year sooner? Hoffman: Yeah. An item you need to take through your mind is the location of that playground in reference to the community park. Do you feel it's a priority that it should be moved up to 1995 or should it be put beyond 1996? Lash: Maybe go beyond 1996. Hoffman: Yeah, it's right in that cul-de-sac where these people can walk onto the trail system... Lash: And originally wasn't this just intended to be more or less just some open space? Hoffman: Open space, prairie with a piece of playground area and a trail... . Andrews: I know that we talked about that. It had prairie grasses on it I believe, that we had talked about wanting to preserve it so maybe we'd like to just delete the play area altogether and look at restoration of the, as much as possible, to a natural prairie area. . . Lash: See how the demand goes. If there's call. Andrews: Right. Never mind. Hoffman: Is that a motion to scratch it then and look at it later on? Andrews: I think so. Lash: Get a tally sheet of requests... Andrews: Prairie Knoll, I think just the notation about the prairie restoration as part of a site preparation. Just maybe make a note about that. Hoffman: Okay. There's different success ratios on prairie restoration but we'll take a look at that and see if it's feasible or not. Talk to some of those Hennepin Parks folks. Schroers: We've got some nice prairies at both Hyland and...but a major lot of work to get them going. But once they're going they're really nice areas. Okay, Rice Marsh. We spent some mo~ey in Rice Marsh in 1991 didn't we and 1990? Don't we have some new play equipment in there? . ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 25, 1992 - Page 29 Hoffman: 1991 was the half court basketball court and then purchased the swing unit last fall which will be put in as part of this expansion for . 1992. That has been put to the forefront so that hopefully it will be installed prior to athletic association programs starting.when their parents meander down to that park, they'll see their play equipment in real early. Schroers: We did spend a pretty good amount of time discussing Rice Marsh and I was very surprised when I went down there one night and I couldn't believe how busy it was. Pemrick: It's always busy. Hoffman: Park has also increased in acreage. It's closer to about 65 acres from 30. These numbers will, they've all been recalcuated. They all vary to some degree. These were estimates that have just been passed along and gone back into the actual County file... But Rice Marsh now includes the entire area which was part of Hidden Valley as well. Schroers: It goes almost up to TH 101? Hoffman: Yeah. Other than Outlot A in Lake Ann, it's the third largest park in the city. Schroers: Okay. Let's go to South Lotus Lake. . Hoffman: Brief description of why I put unsurmountable curbing. The project this year included a portion of the curbing for water control~ Traffic control in that confined area. It looks incomplete. There's unsurmountable, there's a high curbing in certain areas but the rest of it, there's a lot of...or you can just simply drive. This is a very high traffic area. From a maintenance, engineering standpoint, installing the remainder of the driveway access area with unsurmountable curbing would really clean that site up. Attempt to address the funding of that through some street budgets. . Schroers: Let's do that? Hoffman: I'll include it in there but I'll update you on finding some alternative funding sources. Lash: What about tennis? Hoffman: Good news on tennis courts. There's a lot happening, taking longer to discuss than anticipated. In fact I gave Curt a call. One day I was in another meeting and Todd Gerhardt came in and said, come on in. I think we have a tennis court for you. As part of the road improvement project, the TH 101 by-pass, since that road improvement is in a tax increment financing district, as part of that improvements, recreation improvements can be funded through that. So in the process of pricing out a double tennis court on that site. In fact I have two alternatives for layout with a double tennis court, handicap accessible, drinking fountain and lights as part of this roadway project and we get by scott free. . . . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN ,~' of..-. 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission ;/;( FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: March 18, 1992 SUBJ: Site Plan Review, Preliminary Plat, Bluff Creek Site, Keyland Homes . Modifications to this preliminary plat continue to be made by the developer. I was under the impression that Keyland Homes wished to finalize the issues of park and trail dedication; however, enough uncertainties remain that they feel it is premature to actively continue planning for this project. The hinging factor at the present time is a determination by the City Council whether or not sewer and water will be extended to service this area. No action is necessary on this item. Note: This extension of service is also necessary to develop Stone Creek, the next item on the agenda. ft \. ~ PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER f . J- Z <t o :J a.. a. ..<{ . ~ 3 w J- - (f) . 3 CITY OF CHAHHASSEH PRC DATE: March 24, 1992 CC DATE: HOFFMAN:k STAFF REPORT PROPOSAL: Rezoning property from A2 to RSF and Preliminary Plat to Subdivide 81 acres into 141 Single Family Lots and 8.2 Acres of Park Area on Property Zoned A2, Agricultural Estate LOCATION: Located North of Lyman Boulevard, East of Galpin Boulevard, and South of Timberwood (see vicinity map) APPLICANT: . Hans Hagen Homes, Inc. . 941 NE Hillwind Road, Suite 300 Fridley, MN 55432 .' PRESENT ZONING: A2, Agricultural Estate ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: N - A2, Agricultural Estate-Large Lot Home Sites Including Timberwood S - A2, Agricultural Estate-Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad E - A2, Agricultural Estate W - A2, Agricultural Estate-Galpin Boulevard COMPREHENSIVE PLAN: The Recreation Section of the Comprehensive Plan identifies this proposed subdivision as being located in a park deficient area. The site lies outside the service areas of Sunset Ridge Park and Power Hill Park as shown on the vicinity map. COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN: The Recreation Section of the Comprehensive Plan currently Identifies a trail along Galpin Boulevard as a Phase III (2000-2010) addition. The plan also Includes the future Bluff Creek Trail Corridor which parallels the eastern border of this site. The railroad underpass allowing this trail to bisect the tracks lies just to the east of this property. Park and Recreation Commission March 24, 1992 Page 2 " , ~~~ . In preliminary discussions with Mr. Hans Hagen, it .was apparent that the unusual flag-shaped area of this property lying on its northern edge may be desirable for park property. In one of the initial plans, this area was divided Into three lots to be serviced by extended private drives. As noted on the site plan, the maximum amount of park property that the Commission could request under current ordinance is 5.64 acres (141 lots x 3 persons per home + 75 persons per acre of land = 5.64 acres). The area preliminarily shown as potential park Is approximately 8 acres. A copy of the aerial photo of this area including topographical information is attached. The copy identifies the approximate boundaries of the flag-shaped land area. The creek drainage flowing through this area dominates the site with two relatively flat knolls being located on either side of the creelf. However, the necessity to cross the creek makes access to its north cumbersome. Areas south of the creek are interspersed with mature conifers and deciduous trees, open grassy glens, and areas of small trees and brush. The remainder of the site can be described as a typical mature hardwood forest. Upon walking the site, it is my opinion that clearing a portion of this land to accommodate an open field would be short- sighted. If it is our desire to maintain an open.grass field to accommodate traditional neighborhood park facilities, the park should be located somewhere in the agricuitural field. The decision to set aside a natural land area as park versus the development of a traditional neighborhood park is a philosophical one. The opportunity to acquire "natural" land masses as part of subdivision review is not available in many cases. The forfeiture of $70,500 or a portion of that amount in park fees is also worthy of consideration. Under the current plan, the applicant is offering approximately eight acres of land when only 5.64 can be required. Presumably, if the Commission wishes to require land for park in the open field area of this plat, this would not be the case. The construction of ball fields and preservation of open space to the north of this site in conjunction with a school site is also a possibility. The merits ae deficiencies of the options available need to be considered by the Commission. RECOMMENDATION: No recommendation is being forwarded to the Park and Recreation Commission. Staff will be glad to join in the discussion next Tuesday and is hopeful that a recommendation can be formulated by the Commission to be forwarded to the Planning Commission and City Council. TRAILS: The preliminary plat identifies two trail segments on the interior of this plat; one bisecting Timberwood Drive and the proposed park; and one bisecting Blocks 6 and 7 adjacent to a large holding pond. The trail along Galpin Boulevard as identified in the Comprehensive Plan will be placed on the east side of the road at the time of construction. The City Engineer and Planning Department have been notified as such and will require the additional right-of-way necessary to accommodate this trail. Any recommendation by the Commission should include this as a condition of approval. The need for interior trail segments will be unclear until the park issue is resolved. As such, I will not expand upon the necessity, desirability, or cost of these proposed trail connections. However, if these or other interior trail segments are determined to be desirable, it is recommended the applicant construct the trails with their cost, as determined by the city In consultation with them, be deducted from the trail fees. I would encourage Park Commissioners to drive by the site and, if possible, tour the area on foot prior to next week's meeting. Permission to access the property has been granted by the applicant. . ATTACHMENTS Vicinity Map Preliminary Plat Sketch Plan Aerial Photo including Topographical Information Trail Plan . ,~ ~ .~ . rrj> ~. \Z 0 @ '" \., \ ").i / ,--_1 .........: V' z ii: c( ~ }ON ) T LAKE AN. - .---::; ....~ ~ I. LAKJ AN POTENTIAL SCHOOL Z NE:'? , I ~ I . , I LVD. .6 o l"- N 8700-, , (C.R.18) . . It :: ~ i: u z ui : z .:~ ~ o (/) ~;~ ~ cng :i: ~ ci:f ~.o( C Il'l V ~ ~i: ~ Oa: 0..,.. ~~~Ii " cig~~:"t w ~ ;~~ ~ ~;~.:'."~~" n ......'.._-1-.. -.UI.. :~:.' -- ~ C\J ~ ~ '" <;t SS 't; lO lO ~<:\ ~~~ \ I, \) ~ "t; ~ " ~.~ ~ ~ ... '. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~"'~ ~ ":i .~ · ~ " ~\l ~ Vj~;,;~ ... .. t .. ~ ... ..-;. ... ~:"':... !H~ ii!: . . - , t';" ,Hi !~~! ~.r!i :: I" .. ;;!! ~~H :- t~1 ~ :i~~ ~ f;' .. :r:i.' i ~;;~: ~ · ia. . ~._.~ ~!~~: 1 ~E~~ I / / \ I -----' ~ ~ UJ W a:: U\ / ~.. .- :.: . .... ':: / - I.' '\ \ / " \ } . tI' ~ - C .,jot .c.... -oJ. .-0 Z~ W.., ...... Oz 0.... ) . ~ ~ i ,~ ,-t",...,.oI"':-~ . A . - - :~ :-l r I . I I 1--1 -~ ==J :-j ..--1 .- 1 ...__J _.J 5 aTY OF ~ Trail Plan Walkwa.y/Bikeway . . . . Nature Trail e Connection Points , :_~ , ---- I pi , _. --! ~._, ---I ... - - . 6 ~. ~ i or i 7 .' '."'11' 1 , , , Baa. ... 1888 . r 45 --- ~ __I , . I ,_""" -~ I =3 =-1 . =-""1 Existing, Phase One =-J and Phase Two Trails _ : ---- Phase Three Additions:3 J e Connection Points r I I aTY OF OWf-IASSEN Phase Three "Trail System (2000 - 2010) 5 _.~ --i 6 I ~ , -- T~. I t::d ~ i 7 , I~I.II I Sa.. - 1889 .... "'1 . , 52 I . ~ z <( o ::i C- o.. <( . ~. ij o W I- - (J) . PROPOSAL: LOCATION: APPUCANT: CITY.OF CHANHASSEN ~ PRC DATE: March 24, 1992 CC DATE: HOFFMAN:k STAFF REPORT Preliminary plat to subdivide 9 acres of property Into 17 single family lots on property zoned RSF and located at the southwest corner of the Intersection of Ulac Lane and Teton Lane; and wetland alteration permit for alteration, relocation, ana mitigation of a Class B wetland, "hilien Addition, Hilloway Corporation. North of Curry Farms Park at the Shorewood border (see vicinity map) Hilloway Corporation 16455 Ringer Road Wayzata, MN 55391 '. PRESENT ZONING: RSF, Single Family, Residential ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: N - City of Shorewood S - RSF, Single Family Residential E - RSF, Single Family Residential W - RSF, Single Family Residential .cOMPREHENSIVE PLAN: This site lies wholly within the neighborhood park service area (Yl mile radius) of Curry Farms Park and partially within the service area of Pheasant Hill Park. COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN: Trails, trail segments, easements or connections are not called for In the Recreation Section of the Comprehensive Plan In the vicinity of this site. The proposed Ithillen subdivision Is within v.. mile walking distance of Curry Farms Park via a trail connection on Teton Lane. Admittedly, however, this trail connection Is a poor one due to its severe slope. This trail was Installed with minimal Input from the city during the second phase of Curry Farms. Access can also be gained via the residential streets In Curry Farms 1st and 2nd Additions. This subdivision can assuredly be served by Curry Farms Park. Hilloway Subdivision March 24, 1992 Page 2 I RECOMMENDATION: It Is recommended the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the City Council make the payment. full park fees ($500.00 per unit) and full trail fees ($167.00 per un~) a condition of approval for the Ithilien subdivision. These fees are to be paid on all 17 units as part of the building permit appfibation. . . . . I I ~~'I ~~~ ~~ _ /!#Jlr.I~f\\;t:\ ~1~ I ~~: "' ~~~ - ~QS_~ >.n: ;~j/\4'J,~':r.JcJ~\~~__ OOL- '" C ,?l/j:tP'~ /~~~.t~*'b~t:l>- . 1',-- (1 ~ ~ I fi{jl oFf ~ ,)) oa:{..!5 - ~Q@ 31 ~ .~ '\.F\ ~ ~ 71'IJ ,. -~ ~ ..... ~ r--, -'l~-.t0 008- S I :-e ~~~':::::~.J. "- I r. ~' ~,... ~ ~ U~/ .- .) ,,~- ~( ff:~7~/l1:.. ~ ~"ct ..,~ - ~E~ n,-" 1'm:~J:: ~ - "\a. " ~ /.::.......... 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I ~il~ I !ilE I ~II~ , I ,~ . CITY OF CHANHASSEN ~ PRC DATE: March 24, 1992 CC DATE: Hoffman:k STAFF REPORT PROPOSAL: Concept Plan for a Planned Unit Development for a conference/spa center on 19+ acres of property zoned A2, Agricultural Estate and located at 1350 Flying Cloud Drive (former Assumption Seminary property), Leland Gohllke t- LOCATION: Z <t o APPLICANT: :J 0- a... <( . 1350 Flying Cloud Drive (see vicinity map) Leland F. Gohlike 11661 Myeron Road Stillwater, MN 55082 '. PRESENT ZONING: A2, Agricultural Estate ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: N - A2, Agricultural Estate S - A2, Agricultural Estate E - A2, Agricultural Estate W - A2, Agricultural Estate .~ ~ W t- - (f) COMPREHENSIVE PLAN: This site Is being developed as a commercial establishment catering'to the conference market. The acquisition of park property In this region Is not called for under the guidelines of the Comprehensive Plan. This center will be providing ample opportunity for recreation to their clients. COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN: The Recreation Section of the Comprehensive Plan calls for a trail to be maintained on the railroad bed north of this site. This trail alignment was recently reviewed by the Commission and is currently being Investigated by Hennepin Parks. A trail along U.S. State Highway 212 is not identified in the Comprehensive Plan. . Park and Recreation Commission March 17, 1992 Page 2 BACKGROUND: Typically the Commission reviews the park and trail fee requirements of each development proposal i. Chanhassen. In this case, the applicant is not requesting to subdivide the property. As such, the city cannot require the provision of parkland or the payment of park and trail fees as a condition of approval. However, the Commission did request that if any property adjacent to the Assumption Creek be developed, the Commission be given the opportunity to review the proposal. A site visit was conducted on Thursday, March 12, 1992, with the applicant, Leland Gohlike, Jennifer Luhrs, members of the Planning Department, Building Official, and representatives from the DNR Division of Waters and Federal Fish and Wildlife Service. This group toured the site, entering the building, walking on the fen (an unusual wetland composed of deep peat deposits saturated with water containing high levels of sulphur), and exploring Assumption Creek. The creek Is a designated trout stream by the Department of Natural Resources Division of Fisheries, and trout were observed at the time of this site visit. One relatively deep ..nd secluded pool was refuge for an estimated 30-50 trout ranging in size from 4- to 8-. The trout present in the creek are a native Brook Trout. I believe the protection of the creek and the trout is the main objective of the Commission. This is a worthy cause since the total length of the habitable creek is less than a mile during low water conditions. Presently under high water conditions, this aquatic nitch is severely reduced to approximately one-quarter mile of creek. This may be the reason for observing such a high number of trout in the upper region of the creek last Thursday. The majority of the creek basin south of Highway 212 is cUa'ently flooded by the Minnesota River. Unfortunately, control of the creek shore, short of outright purchase, is out of the city's hands. The applicant has expressed and documented the general intent to be sensitive to the environment, however, they do plan to perform extensive landscaping in the area (see landscaping section of the project overview). Discussions among the agencies In the field concluded with the DNR being put in the forefront c:a negotiations with the applicant over the future of the creek basin. City staff will continue to communica. with the applicant and the DNR in this regard. No action is necessary on this item. ATTACHMENTS 1. Vicinity Map 2. Site Plan 3. Building Plans 4. 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W I' I t t t ~ " I i r.. I , - , , ;j if "- 1 r " . . lHIW ~ fLl'<N '~I!./'O"'.II! l ____ 'p.a:> fZ.Jr"IJ~CLaJ/.J Dr2IVE,. GHN-lI1A.~,MN ~ ... .. . CONCEPT PLAN fora Planned Unit Development at 1350 Flying Cloud Drive. (Site of the fonner Assumption Seminary) .' . Chanhassen, MN . Submitted by . Leland F. Goblike 11661 Myeron Road Stillwater, MN 55082 (612) 439-2114 MaIch 2,1992 . 1 .. PROJECT OVERVIEW . This Planned Unit Development seeks to recreate in spirit and in authentic architectural detail many important elements of the MudCura health spa/sanitarium, which operated at this site from 1909 to 1951. At that time, the sulphur-rich mud and mineral waters of the Chanhassen Springs, which dot the property, were thought to have curative powers. People came from as far away as Europe to drink and bathe in the waters, and to have themselves wrapped in mud. Today there is a renewed interest in natural spring and mineral waters, and in the benefits of mud- but the emphasis has shifted away from medicinal cures to more general benefits, such as relaxation, healthfulness, and general well-being. This will be the emphasis of the new facility. Typical spa services will include mineral baths and other hydrotherapy, massage, aromatberapy, saunas, mud wraps, exercise and fitness plans, natural food diets, and other jeneral beauty treatments. . In addition to its overnight and day spa services, the new facility will also function as a bn~ness retreat and conference center (mainly during the week), as a wedding reception banquet hall (mainly on weekends), and as a small spa hotel for weekend getaways. . This combination of complementary uses allows for optimal utilization of staff and facilities, and has been an important element in the financial success of the developer's other similar business, the Outing Lodge at Pine Point, a Planned Unit Develop~ent operating successfully since 1988 in Stillwater, MN. Another of the d~veloper's properties, Seven Pines Lodge (est 1903) in Lewis, WI, features a protected trout stream and 300-year-old virgin white pines, and is on the National Register of Historic Places. Every effort will be made to develop the Chanhassen Springs property in a similarly historically- and environmentally-sensitive way, so that it,too, can find a place on the National Register, and once again become a source of recognition and pride for the community of Chanhassen. . i .. . . . ...... ., - 2 HISTORY OF THE SITE The reprint of a newspaper article from the June 23,1988 issue of the Chanhassen Villager, on the following two pages of this report, gives a fairly det8ned and accurate history of the site. ~ UTILITIES No municipal water or sewer services are currently available at the site, nor will they be in the near future. The on-site 8" diameter well and on-site septic system will be tested and evaluated. The septic system was designed by McCann & Assoc. and constructed in 1968. The original drawings and specs are being researched at this time. The system was designed to serve 100 full- time residents; in the new development the load will be less. However, if necessary the septic system will be upgraded to meet all current codes. .: Natural gas is currently available at the site, but there is no heating plant in the main building. A fuel-efficient natural gas forced-air heating plant will be located on the roof, with direct-vent natural gas fIreplaces supplying supplemental heat in the guest rooms. A heat pump located on . the roof will provide air conditioning, with waste water recycled to the extensive garden and lawn areas. Currently there. is electrical service to the property, but all new wiring will have to be added. All . state electrical codes will be met The developer is aware of the necessity to comply with all local and state f1re codes, by providing fire doors and signed and lighted exits where necessary, f1re-proofing wood panelling, etc. An all-new sprinkler system will have to be installed. It is hoped that some of the water for this sprinkler system can be provided by the pooVmineral bath in the sunken area where the boilers used to be on the garden level. All new plumbing will be required. A plumbing plan will be submitted to the state. Energy codes will be met with energy efficient windows and doors. Exterior walls will be insulated with approved rigid insul~tion. If necessary the attic crawl space will also be ~ulated. All handicap regulations will be met including bathrooms, bedrooms, elevator, and ramped entrances. Save or Destroy? Mudcura attracted patients from afa.. By Mary Durben In its heyday, the "Mudcura" attracted people from all over Minnesota and Dejghboring states, possibly even from foreign c0un- tries. With ailments ranging from rheumatism and skin diseases to kidney and "nerve diseases," they came to the sanitarium in southern awmassen to take ''the cure. " '!bere followed a peri04 when the facility was home to the Franciscan , brothers, who taught philosophy and theology and trained YOW1g men to cure spiritual ailmesJts at ~ tion Seminary. '!be complu still stands beside Highway 212 just east of Chaska, but it bas become an eyesore on an Cltherwise-beautifuI landscape of rolling hills, trees and farmsteads. , Pigeons fly in and out of the gaping second. and third<<ory windows on 'the 'massive, brick main building, wbile the f1rst-lloor windows are boarded up. Graffiti mars the a. ter1or-the legend "hell house" is stil faintly visible, though efforts have been made to remove it. Other buildings OIl the aite are in even sorrier shape, vandalized and filled with garbage.'lbe remains of a roof bang down into an old brick garage. Two houses on the aite are DQW occupied by tenants who watch the property for, vandals, but the 0wlhasserJ City Council recently declared the lite a bea1th and safety bazard. .. ' '.. tbecountylhowsitbeloagm,to 'el . -1--' >~:. Tbt. property- ripreseDted a: WWiamQoessey; inJ8B8,itbelonged" _~. .9~&/ :. ~.~~CtctlQn_.... In:\,~'!r.1I'tthnoeiSY~'cure.''In1be' tV.A1~lMer~wbbPaS!leit~.... ntveafea lO'.lllrn-lhitll: . JlUl )~;.r, city ~~)~ve bben an tohiSsotIJobn. 'lbeDl:2tOWD.lr'iD the spring and the~ WDrt1ng ~~ tbe ...ope:rty~! .. lt08 ... Conrad Elveru, ~ soil surrounding It . flrit to JeCUre .. premises IDa promptly. aa1d it to ~ V-o-. .. . . r:emcWecilfei1slVe"~ and cfMa ~~ JI'iacher. ~~" .,~~er, heavily 1m- toget.tbebu.D~.~~,wbicb . O&nada, received bis M.D. tram;?: 'pregnated with eouId Ile;~)~;..~.~, :~.: Detroit M~caJ College to ~..,s .. sulphur, and he con- . ~cfings ;~." to. bt; IetSo~~=ce~~Vinl in celved the Idea that almost beyODd AvinI, but they Shakopee, Fiaeher discovencl. they must. . . have eontinued to pique the curiosity of sulphur spring across the mer II val t.i a b lee u rat I ve people ln1erated P1 history and in carver QRmty. SuJpbur Iprinp , historiCal praervaUcllL! t; c . - were not the exception but the rule to powers . . ID the past week a Dew poteDtfaJ the area. StIll, Fischer regarded bis buyer, Grace Morgan. bas came find as remarkable and potentially forward with plans ~ ~ert &be Mt1DCUItA Ie pap I I .' . ... .'.::,. ',. t' 1 . . Land~ark may be restored as. bed-an' . ~breakfas' B7 Mal')' DarIN!. Tbe derelict bufJdinp of t..'Ie old Mudeara Sanitarium/Assumption Seminary appeared to he doomed to the torch aDd wrecking baIl, but Just .'u time was ranniDg out, &bey ~ paremly found a aviar. It may fake a mDlion doJIars. but Morgan said Monday that her plans are still on and she is confident the restoration can be acmmplisbecL After touring the buDding, Mcqan upped her estimate of restoration costs from $500,000 to '1 mDlion. She must stW finalize the pIII"Cbue of &be Df~. whi,... f.. ll..h.. 6-- '.1 : out by the Fr8nciscans after they ever, the property ~an( purchased the'. buDding iD US!. officials will probably~ tc Morgan says Ibe may alIo try to i'lt. plans to demoli.sb &hI reproduce the original turbine dings, whicDhave been declare< generatiDg system. wbic:b eouId alth and safety hazard. produce enough e1eetridty to leU . be Mudeura..Assampti ICIIDe back to Nortbem States inarv DfOoertv has bE n..... . . . M UaCUratmapele1 . . . . .. , , , Chanhasse,. Professional . Building . 500 W. 79th St. Chanhassen, MN . l~~.-.~.-.....--~:J D.D.S. General Dentistry (Office Hours by Appointments) 934-7990 ftIuab1e. A biographical piece in . book JIlIbIIshed in 1915 stated that ''0- investig.tion reovealed to bim tbat both the Ipring aDd the soil IlII'TOIIIIlIin It were beavily lm- pregnated with 1II1pIwr, aDd be eanceived the Idea that tbey 1DIISl. in the Dature of the cue, bave positive aDd valuable curative powers for buman ills. He thereupon busied IIimIeIf in making his diIcovery beneficial by. establi.sbing an in- IUtution whereby IY by,lenlc properties could be -.d in the IeI'Vice oflllffering hIIDanIty." Dreycloppel bad two CllIIDIIIIIItI about !be quole. 'lbe BrIt wutbat lbe Iiography fOlllld in the OIID- ,..uam 01 IIlIlorJ ad IIIop'apIIJ of Carver aDd BeaepIa ClIadeI, _Y. probably _ wrltle!l by FiIcher himself or by _ dole to 111m. It _ cammon in tboIe days Itances lbat wben U II baated U &pr;np CD. deeded the prapIIty- for local blstortans to solicit throws art utrllll, odor. Every day. llUi acres-(o lbe Prorince of Oar "IponIorS" who would eantri:Jule wagon loads of this IOU are brought IM!; of OcllIIo1atlClll, Inc. Dr. . _y in ccban,e for iIlIerilnI . to the buildin, aDd put tbrvugh Fileher's wife _ prSdent of the photograph or blop'aJlhy in the ezpensive machinery whieh IOftens CIIIllPIIIY at that time aDd his book. 'lbe piece _ prablbly edited and pulverizes U. It II then aleamed dIl1dren were campany officers. lIIinlmaIIy. U at all. Ihe aid. Con- and moistened lIIItI1 It II 01 lbe Soon after. the lllIIIIpIIl)' .. aequeDtlY. the book's daims of c:ures praper CCIIIIiJteney." dlDolved. at the MudcIIra IDlIIl be viewed with The patient .. then ''l:InfIIIly 'Jbe Prorince !If Oar ~ III _lIIIPiclon. packed in the hat IDlId aDd aI1Dwed to ODnaoIation _the ClIf1lOI'Ite - Dreycloppel aIIO ClIIIIIIIIIIted on .....t prafv.IeIy. after wblcIl be II for the pnrrincial FranciJcalll. who lbe .eneral state of medicine at the liven a tub bath. then wrapped in eel lip Aa1IlIIplion SemiIIar7 and t1II'D 01 the centW')'. "You DOte that _len b'lI.Dkets for. _t_ and CIIIlege on the property. 'Jbey &aaght the qaote ... didn't IIY that Dr. then placed in the eooling room. pIliIosophy aDd tbeoIOI)' there in FiIt:her bad read in the medical wllere be II'Id1lll1y ClIOla wbl1e co11ege eounes. IS well IS replar . Iiter.ture that .ulphur was resting. FilIally the patient II taken aemlnary eourses. aecardlnI to beneficial. or that he embarked on a to . ma.ssage 1'lICIfIl. and there the Dreydoppel. (The eoUege WIS study to test how beneficiallt was. It cIiaeue is literally rubbed out III the I"eCOIIlized by the state but endlts IIYS that be 'ClIIIcelved the Idea that body by the best trained ~ were liven by either the CoIltIe III (sulphur) must ... bave positive and that can be obtained." Sl Calherlne or Sl 'Ibamu College Yaluable curative powers .... Besides the mud treatments. ill St. Paul.) "Medicine at that time _ Just "medical and electric treatments '!be barn _ aIIO part tl the beIiMlng to beeon:ie ac:ientiflc. aDd are adminillered IS IndivIcIua1 cues aemInary. and the praperty WIS It _ trying very bard to eanviDce may require. "the article nated. Dr. lIIIIlIIed IS a cIalry farm by two to people. especially patients. Just how Flacher alao lIIed aome !If the more four FranclJcan bnItherI and ac:illltlfic It was. So thlI_the time ClIIIventional medicines III the time. ltIIdents belping out with the dIores. wben . 'IIIOdern' doclor bad a and his medicine cue II ill the During the aemlnary days, the praminent 'nerve taller' or 'el~ co11ectlon of lbe Carver Oaanty buildings we-e home to INO -uung or Cltber'ln bis office." Historical Soc:lety. atudents. a teac:lling Ilalf III aiIIe or Dreycloppe1 AYS the medical '!be Mudcura aIIO bouled fresh 10, the brlIlher in c:haI1e !If the fann pdgets came with lItI1e or lID in- ml1k from "1Iigh-CrIde Ho1slelns" in and U- who warted the farm. stnIcllon...not even a clear the "aanl~ barn" aDd the "fine Students aDd aome of the Ilalf lived, "Lement of wbat they were ~ Datura! acenery. beautUully laid out in the main building, wblle part !If plBed to care. grounds and . aoclaI atmospbere of the Ilalf lived in the doctor:. house. ~urwasinthelllllecategory. Irut c:heerfuluu and Another small bome :JIoused Dreydoppel AY'. It .melled hopefulness." FranciIc.uls for a time ajd Iller IIIIdlcinal. 10 It _ preIlIIDed to Rheumatism wU the major became. retreat houIe. .' an IOmelhlnl-Flacber'a Jill in- ailment of the time, and the artide Dreycloppe1l1ld sbe taJktd with a c:1uded even stomac:h and 1lnr AYS "every form of It II treated with former atudenl who recaIIId tbat aliments. the utmost care aDd the blgbesl people from the araa beIped out at After purchaalnllbe pI"OpeI'ty in scientific knowledge." For its the Seminary. He alao reca11ed a 1111. Fiacller ~ with Dr. Thenus tre.tment of rheumatism and ,..r1y festival. started 1111.. that M. IAnen of JordaD and Fred W. various other ailments, the article included ''rides, pmea. a Iig din- Goodrich of Eden PraIrIt to form the' c:lalms that "many nmarUble 1IeI', a 'ODuntry Store. - allier Sbakopet Mineral SprIngs CD. fvr c:III'eI III each are rem'ded to the loInp<<I." . _. ."': tile pUrpol~. .~.~.~n.JiiN ..=~ .' II'U1 a-edlt. of.!be unatarilllll arad 'Jbe openizl& III a DeW ~.. _tori\llll. 'Jbe e:IIlpIIIy ..... t1asystG........ . . rebUt house ill Prtor laIIe iII_' . tIiO.OOO inltoc:t.. .' Dreycloppel saI4 that In ~ ape1lad lbe ed for ..'..f: ~~'.' 'Jbe Mudcura SIDItatllllD openad her research 011 the IIudc:lIrI to operallllll. Ptraonnt1 WIIf '. ...~ 011 July 26.1109. CCIllIIItlnI of ,Ull the bIstorical 1J'lIlIIlI, sbe fOUllCl a In -.d to the .....facII;Ity ..,"" .;~ fraDl part of the maID bu!ldinI. with people wbo bad nIaU.. who bad AaalllllptionSeminarydaaac!III. . ~~'. : racm for 40 paUIlIta. Accordinl1D lone for "the c:ure" at the 1IIadeara. 1bere - aile ta1k III ~the . '. - - . the Compendium bad "four iDmaleI Some said the patllIItI bad bien facWty iDto . KDIghtI of CDlaiDbaa . requiring aDd racly to receln c:ured wbl1e lItbera said they Heme. accon1ing to Dreydoppll. and treatment" 011 opeIIiDI day. WII'III'l.. in Dec:cIber 1m the JlI"llperty - IIIltll. Dr. F'iadler'1 resid_ "ProbablythereWlll"l__. IlIld to lbe Marian Couric:II Bama _ bullt and in Ita, lbe t.ca part ..pedaIly 11. IS I suapect. a lot tl AIaoc:iatiOll for ..000. 01 the maiIl bulldiIlI _ added 011, people WSIt there 10 raIu arad be "AI .lOIII IS the F'raIIc:lanI line Itoriea bJib, _ a third Itor7 taken care III in Dice -rr wbI1e mrnad 0Ul, the pr'!lIItlty &&aNd _ added to the fraat pII"L A So they were 'c:ured.' . frequIatIy rapidly IGinI dOwribIb." Dreydappe1 racm donDItor)' _ built in 1113. Ilappened in tboIe days," Ihe said. said. 'lbe BrIt winter, all the water lNIinI tile capaelty of &be "'Ibere were proIlaIlb' quite . In pipea ill the buIIdinIlrlIze 1114 baI'It. IIIlItariIllll to 100 patMnta. 'Jbe bani c:ues In which the c:IIre didn't wart, "I've bwd rrum aeverallDIII'CII tl (_ aCl"OSS HiI!Jwa1 212) _ ball but at least IICIWnI Chert .... 10 . c:aret.aU: - 'lIbD let them traae about the aame tIIDa. bar1Ilful that It would bave made the lIP IIId wbo lbaIlllar1ad lOatiDI what By thia time, !be MIIlIcara lIP' patients worse. 'IbIa _ probablJ wu left of tile IDYtiOrs." pareDtly .,IS waII-boWII. arad not DlIIdl ditrercll from a lot tl ~aaI4.' patlentl c:ame from all ~ anltariI wtich were In aperdOll at '!he Mariana aoId the ~ III America, lDdlI:IlDI AIuU. arad theblnlofthetwDlllr7." . U'II to the Qaanbassesl SpriIlP CD., ... WHIIL~ from f~ l:OlIlItriell. the Com- DreydoppeI said sbe CIIUIIS'tIDd . . ttIeHIIoClIIl ~ from: 1M kit'".. _I CeodaiM pmdium article daIms. lIUle iDformItiOll about the Mudc:urs He:zmePIl ~. 'Jbe pan.ersbIp. ..... ..... ._1........ 'Jbey c:ame far ''the c:ure." 'Jbe between 1t15 aDd ~1. a1thougb U D01I air:IIpoIIed of five atklnlll)'l. bas . wwc.1. "',, ':' . ~IIIII IlioiraPb1 deaa'\beI c:ontimled ill opentIlIIl. Dr. FIDIr baeD lr7iDI to aeI1the ~. aDd ' IIiAo WHIIL aa.- the materiala 8Dd ~. died In IM1. but IIiI wife and one partDer. Jim Sc:bumaa bas Diuo/weI.r'1 trlme .... ....: "'1be aoIl IIIlTOIIIllIIDI lilt c:bl1drer:l kept U gaiIIC far IIIGCbar 10 baeD __ with. ~ tl........... w.... p.;. .. IIIriDI is 10 Ialp'eClIated wItb ,..,... . C2IanbaDeD III a Wly 10 tl . ~ ....... CPIC... IlIi;lbur arad other rDiDeral-- III 1151. the SbUapIe MiDnI lbebliltUd~ '.~ " ;.~~ ' . .;)i'.~.(\.5.r.f ..1 ~ '''''':349 '~~;.~':'):~.~''''''':'.: .~:1 : ~~# . <.~.~- 'De Itadeln SuJtartm -am. IIIIIre 1IU, WIre . .-. _ ..... ..... tile .wa--. . . . auto, bome, health II"B Leoean 'o~... J~8S46 ~':'E~'!.!~~.~ !A&~i .".. ~u ....,. U1J. 530 W. .".. St. CIIanb_, MN " ~ Ie oz. aa&II nur PIottic MttIe. ........ ....... ...,.,. 0.- wlnr\. ...... ..... ...... 249 .. '.... .. . i; ;>? :;~-i'~~: ., ;~. . -1/,.. ~ ......--; .:....: -:"It?_ . ~:~ . IrUCl Beer Save ~ Ulr' I~~, -.... n -- 8J& .: .' ....~' ~ , 'C ~ .: .......... ....f -- = .' ri .. '. .. :\;~.~. ,~ ..--.... --- -- . -.. - ." -........ - --.. .--. MCM u.- "'...... "'_.MN. ~W545 M( UQ WAR[ ~ t::mEB Locally Owned & Ope/ated .. I , 3 PROPOSED USES . . MAIN BUILDING - SPA HOTEL AND CONFERENCE CENTER The main building (approx. 42.soo sq. ft.) will house the following activities: 44 Overnight Guest Rooms, totalling approx. 15.900 sq. ft.. all with private baths, on floors 1-3. 16 Day Spa Treatment Rooms in the east wing. with women's spa facilities on floor 2 and men's on floor 3. 6 Meeting/Conference Rooms ranging in size from 400 sq. ft. to 4.070 sq. ft.. on floors 1 and 2 and at garden level 2 Main Dining/Banquet Areas consisting of a total of 4.380 sq. ft. on floor I, and a 4.070 sq. ft. room at garden level (These rooms can be divided off for smaller parties and are afso counted here as meeting rooms.) . 1 BarlLounge on the first floor. approx. 350 sq. ft. . 2 Service Bars for special events. one each adjoining the main dininglbanquet rooms. (Note: At this time the developer does not plan to operate a restaurant with regular hours open.to the public, but would like to hold open the possibility of doing so if demand justifies it OthelWise, all food service will be on an as-needed basis for conferences. weddings, banquets, etc. The barIlounge area will be open on a fairly regular basis, however. for spa hotel guests, and may serve snacks and hors dtoeuvres).. Kitchen, Food & Beverage Storage, and Laundry Facility. occupying approx. 2.300 sq. ft. on the garden level. Food will be conveyed to the first floor dining areas via an existing dumbwaiter. The kitchen may also be used for some off-site catering. Hydrotherapy and Mud Treatment Area occupying 2,900 sq. ft. on the garden level, including a sunken pool in the area where the boilers were originally located, as well as a sauna and possibly a steam room. Retail Gift Shop in LobbylReception Area on first floor. . . . . . . . 4 PROPbSED USES. cont'd. DOCTOR'S HOUSE The house that MudCura founder Dr. Fischer built for his family, will be restored and used as a bed & breakfast and/or private retreat/conference facility. . GARAGE A new roof has been added to the one-story garage adjacent to the doctor's house. For the near-term, the garage will be used as a maintenance and storage facility. A section at the rear of the garage will have to be rebuilt for storing and processing spa mud Eventually, the garage will become a small musewn for the owner's collection of vintage autos. The musewn may also demonstrate to visitors various "lost" manufacturing techniques forproducing pre-WWll automobiles. When the musewn becomes a reality, the developer will need to construct a ~w storage/maintenance facility directly to the east of the current garage. COlTAGE INDUSTRY In the future, the developer may wish to start a small cottage industry which would process and package some of the spa's more popular products, such as natural food specialties, spring water, or mud-based cosmetics. These would be small operations wifA little or no environmental impact, which could be located in the main kitchen area or the mud processing area of the existing garage. CONSERV ATORY/GREENHOUSE If there is customer demand, the greenhouse may propagate and sell some of its specimen plants. . GOLF COURSE If land can be acquired in the area adjoining the NW comer of the property, 3 to 9 golf holes may be developed for the use of conference or spa hotel guests. (The original development had a small g{)lf course.) . ARCHITECIURE The exterior of the main building will be restored to original condition in S1rict accordance with guidelines for obtaining historical site status. The existing modern brick entry will be removed and the more classical pillered entry seen in 1915 photos of the site will be rebuilt Tl)e only deviation from the original exterior architecture would be the addition of a glass wan and roof to create an enclosed atrium between the two wings at the back of the building, if codes will allow. Not only would such an atrium be visually pleasing, but it is expected that it would also have energy conservation benefits. The interiors will feature extensive use of wood panelling and furnishings predominantly Georgian in style. Architectural antiques will be incorporated wherever possible. The developer would like to eliminate the inStitutional feel of some of the long hallways in the guest room area, and requests advice on this as soon as possible from fire code of&lals, as well as advice on placement of additional stairways and fire exits. 5 . .' Because the kitchen and food storage area has been located at garden level (to accommodate deliveries), it would be highly desireable to hold the largest banquets and wedding receptions on the . same level, thus eliminating use of the dumbwaiter and speeding meal delivery. Currently, the large room underneath the front wing of the building is about halfway below grade and opens out to the garden areas in front This is a positive feature which can be further enhanced with the addition of more windows and french doors, and architectural landscaping. However, the room is divided up by a number of support posts and an elevator shaft which break up the room and hinder the efficient placement of tables. The developer will seek engineering and code advice on redistributing the load onto ceiling beams, and also on opening up somewhat the east and west load-bearing foundation walls to gain access to the rooms under the porches. This will lower the ceilings, howev~r, and may make it necessary to excavate and lower the floor in this area. Additionally, the elevator shaft should be relocated to an existing unused chase near the original chimney stack. These are the most extensive changes proposed for the interior of the building, but they are ,considered extremely important for optimal use of this important space. . The exterior of the doctor's house andthe garage will be restored to original condition. The spring house beside the stream will be repaired, and eventually the original pagoda-style stIUCture located at the farthest spring will be rebuilt . . . . . 6 LANDSCAPING Great sensitivity and effort will be put into landscaping the SUlTOWlding 20 acres to reflect serenity, healthfulness, and a respect for ~ forms and forces. In general, the more fonnallandscaping will occur closer to the. buildings, and will become more naturalized as it moves toward the spring areas and fen. All large, healthy hardwood trees on the site will be retained, and some new screening and specimen trees added. Much of the Wldergroy.rth and scrub will be eliminated, especially near the pond and stream area, where native woodland flowers will be planted. The original marble structures in the stream will be restored where possible. The developer will seek the advice of the DNR on the best management of the pond and stream. . Fonnal gardens, and possibly foWltains, will be added at the front of the building, with extensive cutting beds in the area between the main building and the doctor's house. niere will be a Japanese garden on the NW side of the main building near the bridge and waterfall. The large sunken lawn area to the NE of the main building has many interesting mature trees and will have flowering shrubs and perennials added to its perimeter, with the lawn area remaining open and groomed for large lawn parties and receptions. Tall screening hedges, trees, ~d a vine-covered arbor will be added in the areas bordering Highway 212. Shrubs and trees will be planted to screen the parking lot on all sides. North of the parking lot there will be a conservatory/greenhouse with organic vegetable gardens on both sides and orchards and berry gardens to the west of that Scattered along the extensive walking 1rails will be various specimen plantings and seating 8reas. Some walking paths will be lighted. Original footbridges will be restored and some added on new 1rails. Vines will cover the main building. 7 . P ARKING/ACCESS .. All preliminary calculations have been made to accommodate approximately 220 cars aniving within an hour's time, which would be typical of a very large wedding reception. A paved, lighted and landscaped parking lot for approximately 110 cars will be constructed in the area which is now a cornfield, west of the existing tennis court, with an adjacent, unpaved overflow lot for an additional 110 cars. In the NE comer of the paved lot there will be an outlet and return for cars wishing to drop their passengers off at the covered entry. Bill Warden, of the MN Department of Transportation, is familiar with the site and in a preliminary conversation made these suggestions for planning access from the busy and treacherous Highway 212: 1) That west-bound- only delivery and service vehicles could use the existing driveway on the east end of the property. : 2) That main access to the site be located as close as-possible to the existing driveways at the front of the main building for best sight distance. 3) That a right turn lane and left bypass lane be constructed at the main access point, with a 32 ft. wide driveway at a right angle to the highway, about 75-100 feet deep. . These preliminary recommendations have been incorporated into this site plan. The developer wishes to eliminate the two exisiting substandard driveways in front of the main building, and locate the main entrance and exit slightly to the west of those driveways, adjacent to the existing tennis courts. This woUld cause the new right turn lane to be located directly in front of the building and -the tall screening arbor. At this time an application is being submitted to MnDOT, who will detennine the actual location and design. - .0 DRAINAGE Almost nothing will be done to change the existing grades of the property, except for the parldng lot, which will drain toward Highway 212. . , . .. . 8 SIGNAGE Since the two existing entrance driveways in front of the main building will no longer be used, the concrete pavement will be removed from between the original gate posts and the area to the highway re-landscaped. The gate posts will become supports for the main signage for the building, which will feature a tasteful, understated design. The gate posts are angled so that each sign can be easily seen from cars as they approach from one direction or the other. The signs will be lighted. STAGING AND TIMETABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT The opening of the original MudCura sanitarium was staged, starting with just the first two floors of the front wing. The new development would also follow a staged plan for beginning operation, again starting with the front wing of the building. '.' From a cash flow point of view, it would be best to begin with operation, in October, 1992, of the meeting space and banquet facilities in the front wing. Landscaping, an utilities, windows, parking and kitchen facilities for the entire building will have been done at this time, but costly final decorating of the guest rooms and spa facilities could wait until the business could help fund them.sSpa facilities would open at the same time or shortly after the guest rooms. The spa hoteVconference center should be in full operation by June, 1993. IT you have Questions or would like more infonnation on this plan. please contact: Lee Gohlike, or Jennifer Luhrs, at (612) 439-2114 . . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission #' FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: March 17, 1992 SUBJ: Discussion--Golf Course Following the March 4, 1992, meeting of the Ad Hoc Golf Committee, it was determined that the Park and Recreation Commission should again become involved in discussions about the potential of a municipal golf course being acquired/developed in Chanhassen. My Wednesday night schedule has not allowed me to attend these ad hoc meetings, and as a result I do not have a good feel for the evolution of this planning process. However, it is important for the Park and Recreation Commission to be heard in this regard. This issue sprouted at the Planning Commission level as an effort to preserve a large expanse of open space in Chanhassen. This is a worthy cause, but there is much more to the operation or ownership of a municipal golf course than preserving open space. Ms. Joan Ahrens, Planning Commission Vice-Chair, will be present on March 24 to distribute information and to discuss the committee's activities to date with the Commission. Other participants of the committee may join us as well. This is a time for the Commission to consider the information gathered to date, and to make a determination as to its position on this issue. o PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER t I . . . CITY OF CHANHASSEN 7 - 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission -/ FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: March 19, 1992 SUBJ: City of Chanhassen Park arid Recreation Needs Survey, Final Draft Attached is the final draft of the City of Chanhassen Park and Recreation Department Needs Assessment and Opinion Survey. Please read the survey carefully, noting all little "nit picky" details which should be corrected or amended. Upon approving the format, layout and wording of the survey, the Commission needs to determine what distribution method they would like to see used. The survey has been condensed to allow for a one page survey which could be printed as a flat envelope ready to be folded and mailed. The timing of the distribution of this survey is important as well, and needs to be determined. Upon making these decisions, it is recommended that the survey be presented to the City Council for approval. n \.., PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER CITY OF CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT PARK AND RECREATION NEEDS ASSESSMENT AND OPINION SURVEY I Recognizing the rapid growth of our community, the Park and Recreation Commission, under the guidance of your City Council, would like to Inquire If the park, recreational, and leisure services provided by the city are meeting your needs. sA completing this short survey, you will provide beneficial input back to your community enabling Intelligent and justiflJJllll' decisions to be made in planning for park, recreational, and leisure facilities. Question 1 In general, how satisfied are you (your household) with recreational programs provided through Chanhassen Park and Recreation? (Circle one) Satisfied Indifferent Dissatisfied Explanation Question 2 The city acquired a 32 acre parcel of park land (known as Bandlmere Community Park) In 1988 through the acceptance of a park acquisition bond (tax increase). The next question is posed to identify your position If the city was to present a park Improvement bond referendum to develop this park as a youth athletic complex to Include 6 or 7 youth ball and soccer fields, tennis courts and other associated Improvements. Are you in favor of or opposed to a Park Improvement Bond (tax increase) totaling approximately $600,000 to develop Bandimere Community Park as a youth athletic park? In favor _ Opposed . Question 3 In response to the last park and recreational need survey conducted by the city (1987), a large number of residents identified trails as being an important part of a community. Most trail segments are constructed as part of road improvement projects, many of which the city Is currently involved with. The following question enables you to present a position on trails in Chanhassen. . I am not in favor of a pedestrian trail/sidewalk system in Chanhassen I am in favor of a pedestrian trail/sidewalk system in Chanhassen and would vote favorably on a trail expansion bond referendum (tax increase) to assist in the expansion of a trail system. Other: Question 4 Question Number 4 allows you to prioritize a list of potential park and recreational Improvements which could occur In Chanhassen through the passage of a park improvement bond. Please rank the importance of these potential improvements from 1 to 6, with 1 being the most important and 6 being the least important. Development of Bandimere Community Park An expanded trail system Park and ball field improvements at City Center Park Acquisition of park land for future community use Acquisition of land for the preservation of greenbelt corridors (example: the Bluff Creek drainage Installation of ball field lights at the Lake Susan and Lake Ann Park I do not favor raising taxes to accomplish these types of improvements I Question 5 How much would you be willing to pay per month In additional property tax to fund park acquisition and development projects? (Circle one) t . Nothing $1.00 $2.00 $3.00 $4.00 $5.00 Other What is your age? _ How many people in each of the following age groups live in your household: Persons over 55 Adults High School Aged Junior High Aged Elementary Aged Pre-schoolers Additional Comments: If you wish a personal response to any questions, please contact the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Department, or list your phone number below. Thank you. Results of this survey will be published in the Chanhassen Villager on . . ~, v . . . CITY OF CHINHISSEN g ..-- 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDlJM TO: Park and Recreation Commission -;t/ FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: March 19, 1992 SUBJ: Workshop Park Improvement Bond Issues This time is set aside for the Commission to discuss potential future park and recreational improvements which would require the sale of bonds to finance. The City of Eden Prairie's park bond referendum brochure (enclosed in the administrative section), explains the recent referendum held by Eden Prairie. The issue passed with 2,880 yes votes and 1,202 no votes. Recent discussions with Mayor Chmiel and City Manager Ashworth in this regard centered on the need, or lack thereof, for these improvements (the reason for the survey), and the . timing for a referendum if there should be one. The consensus was that including a park bond referendum on this fall's ballot would be premature (spring, 1993 would be better), but continuing to plan for major improvements at this time is important. Jerry will be presenting the 1992 softball registration numbers on Tuesday, as well as the most recent estimates on youth registration numbers. The content of any discussion would certainly include items specified in the survey, but is not limited to such. AITACHMENT Parks and Recreation Article, Fresh Directions for Elections; How to Sell a Concept n ~ ~ PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER , Special events, such as the An- nual Trail Rally, became an opportunity for the South Sub- urban Park and Recreation District's citizen committee to promote an election bond issue and mil/levy increase. Far right: Hundreds of volun- teers planted thousands of trees in a single day at this April 1990 Earth Day Celebra- tion. The resulting publicity ra:lS an indirect benefit to the district's election effort. A -, "" 24lFEBRUARY 19921P&R F H DIRECTIONS FOR ELECTIONS ~ How to Sell a Concept . By)uDITIi ROBBINS ROSE . There's glamour in new de- velopment. For young com- munities with few trees and leisure amenities, there's appeal in a long list of neu' parks and recrea- tion facilities-even with a multi- million dollar price tag. Just the word "new" is compelling enough to sell everything from toothpaste to designer homes. This can be dis- turbing, if your agency is more ma- ture and you need money to reno- vate park and recreation facilities which are beginning to get old. The good. news is you can do it, if you use your experience-and age-to your advantage. Witness the success of the South Suburban Park and Recreation Dis- trict in the Denver metropolitan area. One of the fastest growing areas in the country at the time, the district population expanded from 83,000 to 130,000 in the seven short years between 1980 and 1987. Residents of this park and recrea- tion district saw brisk expansion in leisure opportunities between 1970 and 199G-funded in large measure by three successful bond elections. More than 70 new parks and facili- ties were added to the district, in- cluding dozens of miles of trail, two golf courses, a two-rink indoor ice arena, two full-service recreation centers, an indoor tennis center, an outdoor tennis center, a senior . citizen center and two more out- door pools. The pleasure of shiny, new facili- ties helped South Suburban es- tablish a reputation as a progressive, responsive agency, but as the dis- trict hit its 30th anniversary in 1989, the board and staff realized it needed to find new directions for the future. To remain successful, South Suburban would need to shift from a growth-and-development mode to a position of excellence in . . .. P&RlFEBRUARY 1992125 South Suburban s playing fields are used frequently by a variety of sports or- ganizations, such as this lacrosse team. Many of these groups were happy to allow district speakers to talk at their meetings. facility preservation. Some of the issues were: . The operating budget for the agency-through fees, charges and taxes limited by state law to a mod- est annual increase-had only just kept pace with the expansion in the number of facilities. Money was . there for routine maintenance items, but little was left for big-ticket renovations or dramatic im- provements to existing levels of ser- vice. . South Suburban was chal- lenged to buy the few remaining quality parcels of land in an area which was essentially "built-out." Residents wanted these parcels set aside, before they were lost to de- velopment. Developer donations had become scarce, yet there was a demand for still more open space, athletic fields, golf courses, trails and other facilities. . A series of factors had left Col- orado in an economic depression. The situation continued to de- teriorate through the 1980s, as com- panies left the metropolitan area, 2~BRUARY199VP&R home values plummeted, and un- employment rose. By the end. of the decade, there were indications that the worst was over, but tangible evi- dence of the healing economy was slow in reaching the pocketbooks of area residents. . Each year cix limitation initia- tives continued to find their way onto the state ballot. With the flagg- ing economy, community leaders feared it was just a matter of time before area residents were denied the right to decide for themselves how best to fund local services. Research and Fact-Finding South Suburban leaders realized that an election to raise new capital made financial sense, but the big question remained: Would the pub- lic support a bond issue and mill levy increase which was not es- sentially new-object-ori~nted? To find the answer to that question, the board and staff went to the source- the people-in various ways: · The board commissioned an independent telephone survey to <" , ..:'.. ,1 .~ . . find out the public's level of satisfac- tion with South Suburban. They also asked what enhancements the pub- . lie wanted in leisure services and how much additional money they would be willing to spend for those improvements. . Using a focus group encounter approach, board and staff members met with 50-some citizens and com- munity leaders in October 1989 to ask for input in directing the future of the agency. . South Suburban board and staff members examined the find- ings of a survey conducted for Ara- pahoe County, which focused on the public's perception of the ideal role for local governing bodies. Through their investigation, several issues became clear to the South Suburban leader: . .South Sub~rban enjoyed a reputation for quality, responsive management, making good on past bond issue promises, and making responsible decisions. . Issues that the community deemed important were economic . . development and a hedge against sliding real estate values, a healthy environment in which to live and an enhanced quality of life, as repre- sented in part by the amenities avail- able through South Suburban. . The public expressed a willing- ness to pay an additional $1.75 to $2.50 per month for enhanced park and recreation services. With this information, the South Suburban board and staff worked to develop an election program. They asked more than 70 community leaders and interested citizens to participate in the process. The vast majority responded to the invita- tion, and nearly 20 of those volun- teered for the more demanding work of participating on a steering committee. This smaller group met with staff and board members in breakfast and weekend sessions to devise the proposed program. The program received the overwhelming support of the larger citizens group at a pub- lic meeting, The board of directors accepted the citizens' recommenda- tion in March 1990, and the two following questions were placed on the ballot for May 1990. . . Question One The first question asked the pub- lic for a permanent one-half mill levy increase to support environ- mental projects. Included were such projects as: . A computerized irrigation sys- tem for the 2,500-acre park district; the xeriscaping of 350 acres of that existing park space-both projects designed to conserve water . The planting of 3,000 new 2-112' trees over the next ten years . The dredging of district lakes to improve aesthetics and water quality . Completions and enhance- ments to the district's 80 plus-mile trail system . Governmentally required projects such as replacing under- ground storage tanks to protect groundwater and installing back- flow preventers to prohibit un- treated water from entering the public water supply. The advantages of designing a mill levy increase to be used for environmentally related projects are obvious. Responsible park and recreation professionals recognize that it is the duty of their agencies to act as environmental watchdogs. Some entity should be a leader in protecting the quality of life on a very local level. Park and recreation agencies are rising to that challenge. Further, environmental concerns are' once again claiming the front pages of newspapers. These issues are also on the hearts and minds of people. Arbor Day, Earth Week and other environmental celebrations all contribute to the public's general awareness, and that's a tremendous election-day advantage. In addition, the new revenue for parks, trails and trees not only pro- vides better maintenance in those areas, but it frees up other dollars for projects that are just as vital, but not so visible or popular. Question Two The second ballot question asked for a $19.5 million bond issue, Of that amount, $9.5 million would be used for land acquisition. The poor local economy had caused the price to drop on highly deSirable parcels of land, so promotional efforts were aimed at turning a negative (the sagging economy) into a positive (low land prices) from which the' public could benefit. We dis- covered, however, that the term "land acquisition" carried negative connotations particularly for senior citizens, so we changed the lan- guage to "land preservation." The remaining $10 million dol- lars of the bond issue would be used for n~' development (golf course, park, athletic fields, the acquisition of a privately operated swim and tennis cemer); renovations (golf Senior Citizens and Your Election Because senior citizens do vote, make them a priority. Right or wrong, older people have a reputation for voting against tax in- creases, but they also have a reputation for kno"9:ing a good value when they see it Remember, the only thing seniors have in com- mon with each other is the fact that they've passed some arbitrary milestone. Different people have different opinions and values. It's to your benefit to offer a broad-based educational campaign. Some people are motivated by the thought of protecting their property values. Some seniors will respond to projects geared toward people in their age category. Some want a new golf course. Still others will want to vote in favor of protecting the environment and leaving a legacy for their grandchildren. Don't make assump- tions about how a specific age group will vote. Make education your objective, and leave the promotion to the citizens committee. . There is one rule of thumb, however, if you want to encourage younger residents to vote. Senior citizens will wait for as much.as an hour to vote. Younger adults may not, so be sure to ~e enough polling places. The Annual Easter Egg Hunt was an- other special event that helped es- tablish popular support from the Denver communi- ty at large. Volun- teers from the citizen s com- mittee passed out informational flyers to those in attendance. course, recreation center, senior center, swimming pools, ice arena, parks, playgrounds); and trail de- velopment. As is traditionally the case with bond-issue projects, we made every effort to provide something for everyone. We included several "bread and butter" projects-most notably installing a much needed cooling system for the recreation center gymnasium and gymnastics center, and purchasing a swim and tennis center, which motivated the local neighborhood to become heavily involved in the election campaign. In educating the public about the issues regarding these two ballot questions, South Suburban staff adopted the position that an in- formed voter would be likely to vote 28/FEBRUARY 19921P&R "yes" on both issues. That position was supported by the fact that: the cost of both measures would be about $2 per month for the "aver- age" district homeowner, and the concerns addressed by the ballot were foremost in the minds of area residents-namely environmental concerns, the quality of life and eco- nomic development. The question was: Would the public make the connection between these issues and leisure services? To establish the link between the above issues and park and recrea- tion services, the South Suburban staff found that Recreation and Tourism professor John Cromptom of Texas A&M University was a valu- able resource. Another good re- source was a publication by the National Park Service, Economic - .~ ..............-. Impacts of Parks & Recreation. Using these resources and others, the staff could demonstrate how quality leisure services can benefit .' the local environment, enhance property values, ge~erate commu- nity revenue, and encourage new businesses to locate in the vicinity. Further, staff was able to articulate in public meetings and through dis- trict literature how recreation pro- grams offer ;llternatives to drugs and the "latch-key kid" syndrome; how senior citizen programs offer social and health benefits; how cultural arts classes allow for self- expression and stress management; and how fitness offerings enhance community wellness. The Campaign Armed with information, South Suburban staff members, the board of directors and the citizens com- mittee addressed the problem of how to educate the public. There was little time from the official an- . nouncement of the ballot measures to the election date, and, realizing the need for a comprehensive effort, staff had prepared in advance. A multi-faceted education campaign took off, little more than a month prior to the election, and hit the ground running. Speakers Bureau Prior to the announcement of the ballot measures, a South Suburban staff member had contacted various organizations, asking for space in the clubs' programs in April. If the board or citizens committee. had nOlbeen in favor of seeking a mill levy increase or bond issue, the plan was to switch the speaking topic to general information about the South Suburban District. As a result of this advance plan- ning, the district had more than 30 speaking engagements pre- arranged at the time election ques- . ._-.... . tions were announced. Staff made the election presentation to home- owner associations, senior citizen groups, sports organizations, civic organizations, chambers of com- merce, environmental clubs, dis- trict facility users and others. Five other public information meetings were also scheduled at various dis- trict facilities, and promoted as . times when the public could talk with district management about the ballot measures. Each organization's meeting was attended by a member of the district management staff, an elected board member and a member of the citizens committee. Several of the district staff members attended a public speaking seminar prior to the speaking schedule. In turn, dis- trict staff members donated time to present a briefing on public speak- ing to the citizens committee mem- bers. Citizens were encouraged to speak in personal terms, and to paint a picture of the intangible benefits of leisure services which they. themselves enjoyed. Staff members provided a look at the tangible aspects of the two ballot issues, while board members ad- dressed the questions of district policy and future vision. Speaking teams carried literature and a media presentation with them to each engagement. . . Literature Election Pamphlet-The citizen committee provided 20,000 copies of a high-quality pamphlet which outlined the projects in detail. A let- ter from the committee members encouraged a "yes" vote on both issues, a "question and answer" pan- el gave the cost for the "average" district household, and the pam- phlet gave voters a number to call for more information. This pamphlet was available in South Suburban facilities, with the understanding that those with op- posing viewpoints would be allowed the same opportunity. The citizens committee offered the brochure to all media, at all speak- ing engagements, to various busi- nesses, to homeowners on selected mailing lists and at various South Suburban special events. Citizens committee members also handed this document to facility visitors during peak use times. Voter Information Sheet-In keeping with the overall approach of the education campaign, we copied this low-cost document pre- pared by the district on recycled paper, and simply listed the ballot questions, a map of polling places, the candidates running for board positions and the eligibility require- ments for voters. We included this. information sheet in all the distribu- tions of the higher-cost pamphlet. Media Ads-The citizens group purchased ads in three local news- Brochure Notice-The highly- visible back page of South Sub- urban's Summer Recreation Brochure was used to inform voters about the two election questions: A full-color photograph of a park was placed alongside a synopsis of the two issues, and a project summary list. Since the brochure was deliv- ered just prim to the election, and was mailed to every residence in the district, it allowed every taxpayer the opportunity to learn about the election. Media Presentation A ten-minute slide presentation was written by district staff. The script and photographs outlined in detail the issues and projects of the two ballot questions, as well as the costs. The presentation featured the voice of a professional television news ~chor. We hired a produc- tion company to develop title slides and a quality audio tape with music. DOllARS AND SENSE If your literature and media presentations don't actively encourage people to vote "yes," your agency can probably pick up the tab, but check with your attorney to make sure. Leave "vote yes" promotions to your citizen committee. Staff members, acting as volunteers, can probably supply the citizen committee with names of vendors and other agency support- ers who would be willing to contribute to their efforts. Just remem- ber to keep your work time and your volunteer time separate. papers for the week prior to the election. These ads featured the committee's logo, the ballot ques- tions, a project summary list, the cost for the average district house- hold and a list of endorsements, which included community leaders, sports and civic organizations, the local Sierra Club and the local chap- ter of the American Association for Retired Persons. The production company provided a 3/4-inch cassette tape dub of the presentation for use on local cable television stations, and a II2-inch VHS ~assette. Twenty additional dubs of the presentation were pro- duced and used in various ways: . Presentations to media, civic organizations, homeowners asso- ciations, clubs and so forth, when the original slide show was em- P&RlFEBRUARY 1992/29 South Suburban's Checklist For Success . A knowledge of what the public wants, and knowing how much they are willing to pay . A good track record and a good reputation . A willingness to be open and honest with the public and the media . A supportive staff, willing to donate time . A citizens committee, with strong commitment to the effort . A board of direaors willing to freely give both talent and energy ployed elsewhere. . Check-out through South Sub- urban facilities to individuals and groups for home viewing. . Continuous play for public viewing at South Suburban facilities the week prior to the election. Media Relations We mailed packets to all daily and weekly newspapers, as well as television stations. The packets con- tained: . Releases . Photographs which illustrated. . the projects to be addressed by the ballot questions . A letter from the citizens com- mittee encouraging the board to place both issues on the ballot . Detailed financial information . A proposed time line and cost estimate for projects .. A district map . The citizens election pamphlet . The voter information sheet Along with the media packets was a letter inviting each media agency to call for a private screening of the slide show and an interview. Three local papers accepted that invita- tion, and all three wrote editorials in support of both ballot questions. From the beginning of th~ir cam- paign, the citizens committee appointed an individual to coordin- 30lFEBRUARY 19921P&R ~-._-- ate its media efforts. This person arranged to have some member of the committee write a letter to the editors of the local newspapers on a schedule. The letters were timed such that each of the local papers received a letter in support of the ballot questions each week. Posters/Signs Staff placed posters listing the projects, the cost, and the ballot questions in district facilities and other locations. After the ballot questions received the support of the three local newspapers, the citizens committee had the editorial opinion columns enlarged to poster size, and hung them in district facili- ties, with the understanding that those with opposing viewpoints would have the same opportunity for expression. On election day, South Suburban placed "Have You Voted?" signs at district facilities, which were also used as polling places. The citizens committee posted similar signs in key neighborhoods, where they anticipated a positive vote due to popularity of proposed projects in that area. Staff Meetings South Suburban leaders recog- nized that the staffs support for the election measures would be vital, so they scheduled several staff meet- ings with the following goals in mind: . To educate staff about the need for, and issues of, the election ques- tions . To educate staff about their own part in the election, and the need to vote . To teach staff how to field ques- tions about the election . To encourage staff to continue a high level of professionalism dur- ing the pre-election period to avoid negative publicity and/or bad feel- ings toward the district . To keep staff updated on the campaign progress . Telemarketing A project of the citizens com- mitte~, but supported by staff mem- bers on a volunteer basis, .a tele- phone bank was manned Monday through Thursday evenings for the two weeks prior to the election. Cal- lers were targeted using various lists such as voter registrations, Sier- ra Club members, homeowner associations, and South Suburban facility users. Only those within the South Sub- urban district were called. Phone bank operators asked respondents if they were registered to vote, if they had heard of the election, if they knew when and where to vote and if they would like more in- formation. Staff volunteers supplied data sheets and scripts to phone . bank callers, and remained at the site each night to field difficult ques- tions from respondents. . Special Events Earth Week, Arbor Day, the An- nual Highline Canal Run, the Easter Egg Hunt, and the Ice Show were all events which were attended by citizens committee members who appeared in T-shirts sporting their Continued on page 86 . ( .:.: "- co:: ll.. ... ::l CIl o ~ ~ >>Ou t: 0 .c Q.) Q.) ...(1)1::; > CIl....W W "0 Q.) $~ ~ ~ ~ ~ UOllCll....S . 8.< 5S co:: ~~~.g~ co:: ... ~ :; ... '3.Eco::O..9 sEo"S8 U""'=o_ 8. ... .- "0 - (I)~~.5~ . ~ c: :. = ~ ~. 00 . . . . . ,.,f:: 58~ ,... -t; -< . , z.,,- O"iifl"l ..<::1. ... """ < "0 z:'5lC!. '" "'.. I:J. II ~ ~tI.. i!; ~ . c.-="" o .!!9~ ",-'" ="5;;; f--:1. 2l<S ~iiC!. z':;;s ~~a =~f Il . Pi.... clrc/. re.d.r ..rv/c. card number" Being a Girl Scout leader gives me a great sense of personal satisfaction. Every time the girls accomplish some- thing, so do I. The activities are great - we've gone on camping trips, visited the local newspaper and saw it on the press, and talked with local businesswomen about how they juggle their careers and a full family life. See for YQUrself the difference being a Girl Scout leader can make - for you and for the girls. You'll want to be a Girl Scout leader, too! Call the Girl Scouts today! Check your telephone ", directory under Girl Scouts. . GIRL SCOOTS 86~BRUARY199~&R FJ(OM TIlE FIELD Continued.from page 7 can be a winning combination. Many more couples in New Jersey share careers in recreation and parks. Something must be right! From all the couples I spoke with, the results seem to be the same. When sharing a profession, as well as a life, the qualities of understand- ing and empathy abound. What makes me such as expert? Well, Cupid's arrow hit me too. A5 fate would have it, the man I love also happens to work in the town adjacent to mine. The receipt for our romance includes a healthy pinch of friendly competitio~ as well. But, that's another article! HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY TO All LEISURE LOVERS EVERYWHERE! Judith L. Leblein Director Recreation, Parks and Community Seroices NRPA LAW REVIEW Continued from page 21 have the force of law, it certainly reflects an unbiased, reasonable and authoritative interpretation of copyright law by a federal official and attorney responsible for such matters. Consequently, public park and recreation agencies should be able to justifiably rely on this opin- ion in the absence of judicial inter- pretations or legislative action to the contrary. In a worse case scenario involv-" ing an infringement lawsuit by a mu- sic licensing organization, a de- fendant public park and recreation agency could certainly offer this . opinion by the General Counsel of the U.S. Copyright Office to support. its defense claim to a section 110( 4) exemption. Further, in the unlikely ~ent of a judgment imposing copy- right liability, this opinion <;ould be offered to establish an innocent in- ..... ~..L fringement of the law and, thus, sub- stantially mitigate the amount of statutory damages for copyright liability. Statutory damages for innocent infringement of copyright are $250 per infringement (Le., each public performance of --an individual work). In contrast, the statutory maximum for damages associated with willful copyright infringement is $50,000. A5 a result, damages associated with innocent infringe- ment of copyright tend to be much more modest than those willful violations demonstrating a utter dis- regard for the law. More importantly, however, this worse case scenario assumes that a federal court reaches a conclusion which is diametrically opposed to the opinion expressed by the General Counsel of the U.S. Copy- right Office. In the event of such an adverse ruling from a federal court, a better case could be made for leg- islative relief from the u.s. Con- gress. Dr. Kozlowski is a licensed attorney and the associate director of the Center for Recreation Resources Policy, George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia. He was a consul- tant to the NRPA Office of Public Affairs on the. copyright issue de- scribed in this column. NRPA Law Review and Recreation and Parks Law Reporter articles are catalogued within the NRPA In- formation Storage and Retrieval Sys- tem (ISAR) database, Searches of the ISAR database are provided FREE to all NRPNSCHOLE Network subscribers. Contact NRPA for sub- scription information. FRESH DIRECTIONS Continued from page 30 logo. These volunteers passed out literature and talked with members of the public on the need to support both ballot questions. I . . . Cj C ITV OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: March 16, .1992 SUBJ: Cathcart Park Cathcart Park is a 4.75 acre neighborhood park located within Chanh~sen city limits but owned and operated by the City of Shorewood! > The attached park plan depicts a potential master plan for Cathcart Park as developed byShorewood. The park currently contains the facilities identified with the exception of the parking lot and formalized play area. A vicinity map is enclosed fpr your reference. " This item is brought to the Commission's attention to pose the question "who uses. Cathcart Park and what is its future?" The City of Shorewood has approached the City of Chanhassen with this question. We will be discussing these issues in more detail on the 24th. n \.., PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER I . )oa I- >- 7~nn u ~ A B MINNE'WA 0 HEIGHTS 0 .0 ~ 8 0 0 f;; 0 . 0 It) ~ CD I It) 6200 I 6400 . 6500 . .:,?~ I : V" i..\. "").......~6600 '...J 1......... 6100 6800 LAKE MINNEWAS 6900 7000 KINGS ROA 7100 , . CATHCART PARK Clty of Shc::nwood.JwWnscr~ Lf .'1 ()(;V).J. ..,... .... ....... , " ", -- - --- -:~~\. - - --'-= .-.--- --:..::.= =-..--:-' - " ...._..) \ , ...--- I ,.. I I 'I \ " I \ ., I '.\ I ; -J _/ I I " ...... f\ I~' \J \ \ \ \ \ \ , \ \ \ \ , , ...., .....10.. Ioooc.., ..... W.. .. -~- ,,'.::". . ',.. . ~ ... :. , o ".c<: 0-:-:,,:,' , , .... -. ...... \ ': \ " ~ ' " \ ~ \ :. , \ ,.. .\ . \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ e-; . i .. /...... "- " \ \.. " " -_ / I - - - ''''- I ~ ~l . . '\ \ " to. .jo 26655 West 62nd Street . ""CITY OF CHANHASSEN . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN,"MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739 MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator FROM: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor DATE: March 17, 1992 "" ~R SUBJ: Friday Night Ski Trip Evaluation The Middle School Friday Night Ski Trips were successful for the second year in a row. Due to the popularity of last year's trips, three were offered this year. 'The first trip went to Mon Alps on January 17th. There were 130 registrations, which'is a bit more than the 65 maximum. In order to accommodate the massive number of registrations, an additional bus was added. Registration for the second trip to Wild Mountain was not quite as high as the first trip; however, the number was still pleasing at 65 registrations. The final trip to . Trollhaugen had attendance of 65 students, which is the maximum. Two of the three ski trips left the Chaska Middle School at 2:45 p.rn. and returned at approximately 10:45 p.m. The Trollhaugen Ski Trip was held during the day when the Middle School had its mid-winter break. The most effective way of collecting registrations was to set up a table at the school during the Middle School's lunch period; however, this was very demanding on my time schedule since I attended all school lunches for ten days prior to the trip. Since most of the registrations were collected during that time frame, I plan to continue to take registrations during lunch periods, but may reduce the number of days I would be there. I will also provide registration by mail or by dropping it off at City Hall. For the second year in a row, a solid core of chaperons helped with the ski trips. Teachers from the Middle School were more than willing to chaperon as well as some of the City staff members. We had difficulty scheduling a date for the ~ay time ski trip around other scheduled district activities. It was also hard to find chaperons for this trip. Cutting. back to two trips again next year would make it easier to concentrate on providing better programs. " . The ski trips definitely have grown to become one of our department's more popular programs. Measures will be taken to improve the ski trips for next year. ft '- ~ PRINTED ON RECVCLED PAPER . City Council Heeting - Harch 9, 1992 Hayor Chmiel: Okay. . Councilman Workman: I approve Hodification No. 11 of the redevelopment tax increment financing. 1 -/ I Councilman Hason: I'll second it. Resolution '92-36: Council.an Work.an .oved. Council.an "ason seconded to adopt "odification No. 11 of the Redevelop.ent Plan and TIF Plan for the Chanhassen Re . in favor and the .otion carried unani.ously. LAKE ANN PARK RECREATION SHELTER. . Todd Hoffman: 1 y ouncil.embers. As you are aware, the" City Council rejected all bids for the project received in the first bid openings on January 13th of ~his year. You then approved ainor .odifications and authorized re-advertisement for bids for the project. On the .orning of Thursday, February 27, 1992 12 bids that were received were opened. The low bid was from A.L.H. Builders of Waseca, Hinnesota in the amount of $255,963.00. As expressed in the report, this price is an extremely competitive price and could not be lowered unless major structural changes were made to the shelter. The cost is higher than the original target" ~mount, however I do not believe it is in our interest to further alter the design or function ~f this shelter in the interest of shaving costs. The shelter will provide valuable s~vice to thousands of park users each year for many years to come. Funds are currently available to complete this project and this investment will quietly i.prove the quality of life of all residents for many years into"the future. Whether it be a birthday party, a company picnic, a cold drink, the rental of a canoe, better lifeguard capabilities, the availability of a public phone or last but not least regular indoor bathrooms, this shelter will mean something to everyone. It is therefore recommended that the City Council award the Lake Ann Park picni~1 recreation shelter construction contract to A.L.M. Builders in the amount of $255,963.00 with no alterbatives being a~cepte~. Hayor Chmiel: Thank you. Todd Hoffman: I should note this evening that we have Hax Daubenberger with Van Doren-Hazard-Stallings here. He is our project representative. Scott Harri who - you all know is also in the audience. He has recently, in good standings, left the employ of Van Doren but did work with this project throughout it's conceptual phase. Hayor Chmiel: Any discussion? Councilman Hason: I'd like to .ove approval. Councilman Workman: I'll second it. Hayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded with discussion. Councilman Wing: I would really like, for"myself, my own opinion to have expenditures this big go to a referendum. I think we've decided it's best for the city, as we discussed these other items. The only thing that tempered that J . 52 f I , " City Council Heeting - Harch 9, 1992 f t . 1 , is I've been stunned by these numbers ontil I saw the numbers for redecorating the room downstairs. Suddenly t~ese ~re awful small numbers. Now I'. worried about the numbers for the room downstairs. Hayor Chmiel: Veah, you're right. Any other discussion? Councilman Hason: Just to comRlent on that. This is aoney that's alread1 dedicated to the park fund so. . Councilman Workman: It has to go to the park. Councilman Hason: Right. It has to go to the park. Councilwoman Dimler: We're really late in the game here to .ake any changes. Councilman Hason: And I can't wait to use the facility. Or the bathrooms for my kids. Hayor Chmiel: He can use the ones at home. . Councilman Hason: Not the little one. He can't wait that long. Resolution '92-37: Council.an Hason .oved, Council.an. Work.an seconded to award the Lake Ann Park picnic/ recreation shelter construction contract to A.L.H. Builders in the a.ount of $255,9'3.00 with no alternatives b~ing accepted. All voted in favor and the .otion carried unani.ously. I COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Chmiel: One more thing under Council Presentations. I received a letter with a bunch of renderings that were done by the Chaska Hiddle School. It comes from two of the Middle School Art Department teachers, R. Gabriel and M.J. Mpses. It's basically in celebration of the Vouth Art Honth of Harch and they .are presenting to the Council original linoleum prints. These prints were .ade . by the Middle School students from our community. And they're really proud of the work that these students have done and take pride in sharing their work with us. So with that we have each received one and I took the one that I liked the most and I'd like to pass, listen they're all great. They're all beautiful, believe me and I'd like to give one to each of the Council. Vou only get one. And there's only one name that I can't read on it but the one I have is from Lindsey Johnesh. . Councilwoman Dimler: And I've got one from Joshua Polson. Mayor Chmiel: Which one do you have Richard? Councilman Wing: Let's see, Sheila Ytzen. Councilman Hason: I have the one from Jill Schwartz. Councilwoman Ohler: Hr. Hayor, before we adjourn. Could I. draw atte.ntion to this announcement that was on our desk? 53 . -r--. .' . . . C'.) c:: .0 .t:: ~ :::s a ~ e: ~ r... ~ c:: ~ ::3 ...... ~ ~ Ill">- .. III 10 ~ -e ~ c:::l"O III C III .aIllE~ =-5:::l:::l .c -........ u -5 III III O~~~ 00= o_..~e ..r~cE .... 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"0 202 ~o2'3 ~::: ; c:: 8 - e... = e _ ..u.J =' ...':J ~ ~.~ e ~ Ii: .. ~ ... u ", Q- o.c;. S"'~t:C ."'''''00 "'1:1. "" ... u u'" u Z - -S- 8--s .. I ='.Z::oo;..", ...l......c.;:c eo.'s .... .. -S... c .. .!.8_5 u-S =...O\c..: ... = on 8 .. c. ~~~ :::j . u ~- C...l.l.~li =' ~'5~s ~~. ~ .8... Z o~= Q ..ga.u ._~c-5 I fl_.sa... -.;;0 ~ e e'" c ~~BI= .;: ie u '" ..... ~ c II 0.8 s .g ~ .~... t 5 oS c fIi-5.! -=>-uc .g O,C._ '0 -~ - c.....8 ~:;~ U"t c... 0 =.e- lit: >-lIS ",iJi'Se "b-8olil:g -5 ;'U ~ g .3'i-So2~ ~ 'i e u ~ - &L ! c o 1 c .;: c:l 8 j ~, . ) >> L ! i . Cl . . . ~in other words, sooner or later, the :milfoil probably will spread, boat 'inspections or not. "Yes," said Sak, ;"there's evidence that milfoil is being ~pread by animals." '." ere also is evidence that the ry carriers of the aquatic ~der are boats. Any kind: fishing, 'sailing, waterskiing, you name it. :"The first sign of milfoil is usually 'found near the boat ramps," Sak :said. . . .'~ . 'SC what's the alternative? Do :aething? ,........... 'S;Yeral Lake Minnetonka anglers have suggested as much. Since milfoil invaded Lake Minnetonka, they say the bass fishing has jmproved significantly. So what's ~e big deal, they ask. Indeed, the fish I1fe .in Lake Minnetonka seems to have :adapted well to the vast fields of ~ilfoil. And bass anglers have leamedfishing methods to pull fish put ()fthe floating mats. / . Arid the Minnetonka bass seem to be ~igger since milfoil started ~o!l'inating the bays. :But this could be a weedy illusion. I Is milfoil really helping the fish on Lake Minnetonka? "It's too early to teU," Sak said. "I'm not doubting the fishing is better, but it may not be related to milfoil." . In other words, it's too early for anglers to conclude that milfoil isn't dangerous to their sport. "Milfoil can cause all kinds of problems," DNR Fish and Wildlife chief Roger Holmes said. "It'll lead to a monoculture and lack of diversity in aquatic habitat. It'll crowd out desirable. plant species. It's poor for waterfowl. "The idea that milfoil provides fishing habitat so therefore it's OK is shortsighted llnd selfish." The DNR's milfoil plan includes six steps, rangingfrom reducing new infestations to development of new control methods. In addition, there's a heavy dose of public awareness. What the plan doesn't answer are the tough questions. Where should the emphasis be, money-wise? Boat inspections or milfoil-control research? And who should pay? Sak said there's been progress in the war on milfoil. Remember this name: Myco/eptidiscus terrestrias. It's a fungus that kills milfoil. A Massachusetts company, Eco- Science, will test the biological control in three states this year, Sak said. "We've found the fungus in . Minnesota," Sak said. "It could help control milfoil although it probably Eurasian' water'milfoil The quick-growing weed can repro- duce from a single four-leaf frag- ment - a piece snagged by a boat propeller, for example. Taking root at depths of 15 feet or less, each plant sends up a single shoot that branches near the surface, forming a dense mat of vegetation. Flower stalk! Reddish I stem with tiny yellow flowers Leaf segment! Four feathery leaves, each with 14-16 pairs of leaflets WEAPONS _OEBA TTLE~1;'~~~.sf~~f~~"'t: ':. . Mechanical . Chemical . Biological Boats that operate Two herbicides have Researchers are like aquatic fawn proven effective studying a moth and mowers can clear against milfoil - a weevil that eat away mats of weed. 2,4-0 and Sonar. milfoil, and a fungus But like a lawn, the But they must be that destroys it. But milfoil grows back. applied carefully on the ecological Divers can pull out a spot basis to avoid hazards are yet un- plants by the roots. major damage to known - what else But like dandelions, native plants that are will they attack? - roots may remain necessary to aquatic and a solution may to sprout again. life. be 10 years away. Source.: Department of Natural Resources, Lake Minnetonka Conservation Distr wouldn't eradicate it." There might be other breakthroughs in biological or chemical controls, Sak said. "But please mention grass carp. People are saying we should stOCk grass carp to get rid of the milfoil. Grass carp don't eat milfoil." The sky isn't falling, either. Ci~ of ChaQhassen Carver and Hennepin Counties, Minnesota DATE: February 10. 1992 MOTION BY: Dimler RESOLUTION NO: 92-18 . SECONDED "BY: Mason . - A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING 1"2 LAKE ANN PARK ENTRANCE PEES BE IT RESOLVED, that the Chanhassen City Council hereby establish the 1992 Lake Ann Park parking permit fees at the 1991 rates of: $2.00 $5.00 $10.00 Daily Pass Annual Pass Annual Pass (Resident) (Non-Resident) Passed and adopted by the Chanhassen City Council this 10th day of February, 1992. ATTEST: d1 CaSZ:6 ! Don Ashworth, City Clerk/Manager ~ liQ ABSENT . Chmiel Winq Mason Dimler None Workman . .~ An update from the City of Eden Prairie . March! April 1992 Let Us Answer Some Questions You May Have on the 1992 Park Bond Referendum Why is a referendum being proposed at this time? It is no secret that the City of Eden Prairie is one of the fastest growing cities in Minnesota. The last successful park bond referendum was 13 years ago. That referendum provided the City with the Community Center and many fine parks; however, since 1979 the City's population has grown from approxi- mately 13,000 to over 41,000. Park use has also grown to new levels with the increasing population. Over 4,000 chil- dren were served by the City through . youth athletic programs last year. De- spite this growth, the number of facilities have remained the same. Un- less these parks are built, children will Pe turned away from participating in youth sports and our existing facilities will suffer from overuse. I read that Eden Prairie won an award for having one of the best park systems in the United States. Why do we need any more parks? Eden Prairie won this park management award in 1982 because citizens were invoh:ed in determining how the City was developed and invested in their park and open space system. The City Coun- cil is committed to ensuring a high quality of life for future generations and is continuing to involve citizens in determining community needs through this referendum. If the referendum is approved when would these facilities be available for use? . The proposed improvements would be completed in 1994, with the majority of @ Printed on Recycled Paper There will be increased pressure to begin lighting more of the existing ball fields throughout the community in order to extend the use of those facilities to meet the increased demand. (There were children put on waiting lists for both the soccer and baseball programs in 1991.) Projections are that if no additional facilities are available by 1995, there would be approximately 645 children on a waiting list for baseball alone. How much is this going to cost me? The average home in Eden Prairie has a market value of approximately $123,000. This "typical" home would pay property taxes of approximately $19.63 toward this project. Referendum (continued page two) the facilities ready for use in the spring of 1994. Are any of theses improvements de- signed to accommodate older citizens or individuals who do not have young children at home? Approximately one-third of the area within Miller Park is designated for wooded picnic areas, fishing piers, lake access, walking trails, etc.; Pioneer Park is a passive neighborhood park that will serve surrounding neighborhoods, as well as the Senior Center; and approxi- mately 80% of Riley Lake Park will be developed for uses such as swimming, picnicking, fishing, and court games. How will you maintain these ne.w im- provements? The City staff estimates that once all the park improvements pro- . posed for this referendum are completed, the City will require approximately four additional seasonal employees and one addi- tional full-time maintenance person to maintain these added facilities. What happens if the referendum fails? The existing undeveloped parkland at Miller Park, Riley Lake Park and Pio- neer Park would remain relatively unused, while existing parks will con- tinue to exceed carrying capacity during peak load periods. Your City Council "at Work Doug Tenpas became Eden Prairie's Mayor in January of 1990 and has served on the . City Council ". since January ~"; 1989. As mayor Doug presides over Council :! . ," .~ meetings and ~' votes alongside the City's four I other Council DouGLAS B. TENPAS Members. Under the leadership of Mayor Tenpas and Council Members Anderson, Harris, Jessen, and Pidcock, the City has under- taken a number of significant efforts. A major quality management initiative is moving forward, work is nearly com- plete on finding a permanent home for Eden Prairie's City Offices, and prudent management of fmances has kept the City's tax. levy relatively constant. In addition to his duties as mayor, Doug is a self-employed Investment Banker and a board of director of the Discuss Corporation, a publicly traded company. He is an active member of the Minne- apolis Heart Research Institute, 1-494 Corridor Coalition, Municipal Legisla- tive Commission, Glen Lake Task Force, Hennepin County Recycling Task Force, Eden Prairie Chemical Health Advisory Committee, Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce, and Rotary International. Doug is a founding member of the Fair Share Committee (a community tax study group) and a past board member of the Eden Prairie Chamber of Com- merce. Referenduln (continuedfromfront page) The chart below shows the cost in property taxes per month and year for homes with estimated market values from $100,000 to $400,000. Four and a half million dollars seems like an awful lot of money. How can it cost so much to develop a park? Actually, the majority of the costs are for construction of facilities including streets and parking lot construction, storm sewer pipes, water and sanitary sewer connec- tion, underground electrical and grading. Those costs alone total over $2.6 million for Miller Park. Cost estimates for construction are: Miller Park $3,800,000; Riley Lake Park $500,000; and Pioneer Park $200,000. Southwest Community, NEW S C H" ANN E L 3. Southwest Community News is a half- hour show which covers local news, features, school sports, and recreation activities in Eden Prairie, Edina, Hopkins, Minnetonka, and Richfield. Broadcast times are 12:30 p.m. everyday, 9 p.m. Friday, 7 & 9 p.m. Saturday, 7:30 p.m. Sunday, 5":30 p.m. Monday, 6 & 7 p.m. Tuesday, and 5 p.m. Wednesday. - . . . CITY'OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE- P.O. BOX 147 - CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 - FAX (612) 937-5739 March 13, 1992 Ms. Marie Hasty Director of Activities Chaska High School 1700 North Chestnut Street Chaska, MN 55318 Dear Marie: Following our conversation of last week, the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission meeting of Tuesday, March 10 was cancelled. As a result, I wasunable to discuss wtth the'Commlsslon your facility use request for the tennis courts at Chanhassen Elementary School/City Center Park. This letter Is to confirm my preliminary approval of this request. Please forward a copy of the proposed practice and game schedule to Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation SupervisOr. Recognizing this Is a new arrangement and as a service to the public, please prepare a temporary sign which can be attached to the court fence identifying the reserved times. Your attachment of a wind screen to the courts, provided It Is In good condition, Is welcomed. j: \:. . t lo;~ As discussed in our phone conversation, the Ctty of Chanhassen is pleased to be of assistance to the school district. We look forward to seeing the varsity tennis team practicing and playing here. and we will- make every effort to meet their needs. Please contact me If you have any additional requests In this regard. Sincerely, ~~ . ~'. .' ..'. . ." : ~ f: ~L ~::-J:;~.i..'~"'7~;'_;Cw?.;..'-.::;.j.~ 'S::;~:~~;~L;;...t-~i-~,}~~.~...;."":;",- . '...a_ r-. ~~~~'~-~~:ij;;r:.r;:"~.a;".~.:::~-:..~L:: L;~~E;-t1:-~ t;;:'C:--?~.: _' -,--' ~-. .~:"...~~ 7:-:--:-: ", ..(.'" ~ :-.: __....r"'1~~~p.~> Todd Hoffman - "<.;.~' ~-<~~,;.,.~ Park and Recreation Coordinator -;:.;",:c:;:,~ _.....,_r,__. -' .-~n';l f:~ :~~:~7~ ~ .- ~?~....~ ,.,",", ~~.. E t- f' ,.,.- f:,;:: TH:k pc: Park and Recreation Commission Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor Dale Gregory, Park Foreman Car1 Mattson, Chanhassen Elementary School ft- - ~., . PRINTED ON RECVCLED PAPER