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1989 02 28 Agenda . . . AGENDA PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1989, 7:30 P.M. CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE 1. Call to Order. 2. Appoint Acting Chairman, Ed Hasek. 3. Approval of February 14, 1989. 4. Public Discussion of 1989 Adult Softball Eligibility Rule. 5. Final Review of Chanhassen Pond Park Master Plan. 6. Review Potential Sites for Lake Lucy Public Access. 7. Review Request for Basketball Court at North Lotus Lake Park. 8. Review Request for Concession Stand at Lake Ann Park, Domo Products. 9. Reconsider Motion to Revise the 1989 Capital Improvement Program. 10. Commission Presentations. 11. Administrative Presentations. , CITY 0 F CHAHHASSEH L/ . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEM:>RANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Comnission ~// FROM: Tcrld Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor //1 DATE: February 23, 1989 SUBJ: Public Discussion of 1989 Softball Eligibility Rule This i tern has been discussed at two previous Park and Recreation meetings. The minutes of those meetings occurring on January 31 and February 14 are attached. The discussion of the January 31st meeting resulted in a motion being unani- mously approved to limit the number of outside players, meaning those players who do not reside or work in Chanhassen to a rnaxirrnJIIl of four (4) players per team. Prior to this motion being approved, extensive discussion was enter- tained addressing why the rule is necessary and reasonable. Discussion also focused on the inevitable disagreement by some teams and individuals to this rule. However, the point that some teams and individuals are in full support of the new rule was not discussed. This public hearing has been scheduled to allow all parties wishing to make a . staterrent for or against this ruling to do so. Many areas of canpromise may be touched upon during this discussion. What is important to keep in mind as this discussion evolves is that even though this ruling is unattractive to some indi- viduals, it has been established with the overall well being of all park facility users in mind. The possibility of obtaining the use of two softball fields at the DataServ location in Chanhassen is currently being investigated. In the event that these fields would become available, it may be possible to schedule the leagues as they existed last year. The decision as to whether or not this would occur would be put to the team managers for a vote, since the fields at DataServ are not of the same caliber of those at Lake Ann. Over the past month, staff has had many conversations with individuals both against and for the new eligibility rule. It is understandable when dealing _ with nearly one thousand softball players who played on fifty-six (56) softE>all teams in flve different leagues that a percentage of those players will be disgruntled, whatever organizational structure is used. It is never our intent to create undesirable situations, but at times they cannot be avoided. It is the recommendation of staff to have the new eligibility rule stand as approved with an understanding that a possible alternative using the DataServ fields continue to be investigated. Any changes in individual league structure that would result if those fields were to become available would be decided through a majority vote of respective league managers. For further information on the number of non-residents participating in last year's leagues, please see the attached chart. . . . . TOTALS: CHANHASSEN ADULT SOFTBALL LEAGUES 1988 SEASON MONDAY NIGHT INDUSTRIAL LEAGUE 12 teams 204 players total 184 live or work in Chanhassen 20 non-residents TUESDAY NIGHT WOMEN'S OPEN LEAGUE 9 teams 163 players total 45 live or work in Chanhassen 118 non-residents WEDNESDAY NIGHT MEN'S 35 AND OVER LEAGUE 15 teams 243 players 130 live of work in Chanhassen 113 non-residents THURSDAY NIGHT MEN'S OPEN LEAGUE 14 teams 230 players 128 live or work in Chanhassen 102 non-residents FRIDAY NIGHT CO-REC LEAGUE 6 teams 113 players 68 live or work in Chanhassen 45 non-residents 56 teams 555 live or work in Chanhassen 399 non-residents Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 8 . that when, even after the building's there and we do start to plan your ballfields and all that stuff, that we do know where we're going. Sietsema: We need to work with the school to find out if they want to rearrange the ballfields too and the tennis court and everything else too. We're making some assumptions here. Watson: What they need done because it's always going to be a joint venture. So they get their equipment too. Sietsema: Do you have some criteria as far as how far away from the school you want it? Carol Olson: We've really been listening to what you have to say too. What the whole design is going to be. It's really crazy for us right now to say we want it here if there might be a building there. Bob Ostlund: I totally agree with what Jim said. A site plan to coordinate on is what really is necessary right now so where the playground equipment goes can fit with what the overall plan for the site is. With or without the community center. I think that really is the first step and then we'll have to take a look at it and try to think of possibilities with APT or other interested parties on something once we . have that in place. Boyt: We'll need a joint venture to get the design because the school has three grades on one playground and three on another. Mady: I move to table to our first meeting in April and that if a decision is made in the City prior to concerning the community center site, move it to an earlier agenda. Watson: Second. Mady moved, Watson seconded to table action on the totlot equipment for the City Center Park until the first meeting in April or if a decision regarding the community center is made prior to this date, that it be moved to an earlier agenda. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 9 . . it, it discusses situations that are occurring down at Meadow Green Park with the two ball fields that we have there. Gary Meister and the girls softball program has kind of grown accustomed to using those fields. That program is growing to the point where last year they had 4 t~ams. Now this year he's anticipating 5 or 6 and he would like pretty much exclusive use of that field, or those two fields that are there. I noted if we granted that request, what some of the problems would be where we have other requests to use some of those fields. Specifically field #2 or one from Westside Baptist in as well. Last year Field #2 was pretty much left empty throughout the week every night and many adult softball teams scheduled practices down there as well. This year the battle has already begun for field reservations. We don't have the written policy but I'd just let anybody know who would like to reserve a field, just to make a written request anytime after January 1 and these two are the first requests in the door. I had one December 31st and one January 1st so they were right on top of one another and with the additional growth going on in the community, it's only going to be a problem that intensifies before it subsides. When some additional ballfields are put in. The 3 at Lake Ann Park will help out to a certain extent but again, I think by the time those are built, they will be used to their maximum potential and we'll be looking to the additional ball fields that will be coming into the south in the southern park design for basically children type use sports. So what I am asking of the Commission is a recommendation as if there is some criteria we should look at. Whether it be which group should get certain preference on parks or if we should give certain parks to certain activities. Say, Meadow Green Park and City Center specifically for youth and Lake Ann Park specifically for adults. Lake Ann Park is another site where many of the youth organizations, specifically Little League and the Babe Ruth League, we'd like to see more youths there as well. As I've noted on the next item, we're pretty much up to full capacity there with our adult softball leagues. Robinson: Todd, can the ballfields at South Lotus Lake Park that's scheduled...for 1989, be used for league play? I realize not this year but... Hoffman: At South Lotus Lake? Yes, our policy is basically that neighborhood ballfields can be used for the children's or the youth activities. T-ball, pee wee, ragball, those type of things but it's just not a compatible use for adult league play so we don't schedule any adult leagues there. That's basically why we leave Lake Ann Park for the adult leagues. But yes, to answer your question, once it is there, it will be used for youth sports. Robinson: So that wi~l help alleviating your problem? Hoffman: Yes. . Robinson: Hoffman: will not probably And the addition fields at Lake Ann. And the additional field at North Lotus Lake will as well. be in use this year. For intensive league play, I wouldn't recommend it this year. It will probably get used by the That Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 10 - . neighborhood children in that area to a certain extent anyway but I don't believe the grass is going to be fully matured where we should use it. Boyt: How about a practice field? Mady: Yes, I talked to one of the Little League coaches this year and had mentioned again that we had, in our budget we would be putting in a mound at North Lotus 50 they would have at least a practice facility field. I told him it's not going to be big enough to hold your games on but at least you're going to have a place where you can take some infield, hit some balls around, take outfield. When the Legion field's busy, you at least have a facility to use. A friend of mine complains quite regularly about the lack of fields. Actually there's a couple of different guys complain regularly about lack of fields 50 we need to accommodate as much as we can but it's going to kick off a bit at existing ones is very difficult also. Boyt: Have we provided... (A tape change occured during Sue Boyt's question.) Hoffman: ...in the industrial league from Monday to Tuesday. flopped those 50 the women's league who had 9 teams, they can entire league on two fields. That would allow Field #3 to be Little League on Tuesday nights as well 50 they did play some at Lake Ann Park. We've flip play their. used for th games here Robinson: Maybe we could get some ideas if you also updated us on (a) and (b) because that definitely comes into play I believe on the other part doesn't it? Hoffman: Yes. If nothing else,on 8(a), if we want to remain as is and just try to work out the most sensible solutions to field scheduling conflicts, it just brings to your attention the rising need for additional ballfield space that is occurring. Boyt: Is Westside Baptist the church that's meeting in the industrial park? Mady: A question or I guess a comment which is mainly about Meadow Green Park is that it truly is a neighborhood park so if we can at least keep one field open, not even schedule practices but just have it there and if a softball team shows up, they can use it or if the neighborhood kids, if they're playing, they can use it or whoever gets there first has got it. Unless we run into a situation where a couple teams are battling it out for it and we start running into problems, then we'll have to do something but we do have Carver Beach, it's just a small field. Maybe the girls could use that one. It's not that far away. Hoffman: Carver Beach is used by T-ball and ragball currently. Mady: In the summer after that. . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 11 . Hoffman: Girls softball goes a little farther into July, mid-July. Mady: It's tough. Until we get our parks built, it's going to be tough. Robinson: It is and I think we should, I know you're doing the best job you can. I think we should almost, if it would make you feel better, make that a written policy. You say there's an unwritten policy now which allows returning groups or organizations, you've got your priorities set. I think we should almost make that a written policy. Boyt: I don't think so. Because of the children coming in. I think we need to make room for the children and if it's an adult league where people from outside of Chanhassen playing and although it sounds like almost everyone is from Chanhassen and I think they should be bumped for Chanhassen children. Robinson: Chanhassen residents period. I think that's why I'd like to talk about 8(b) because I think we could pin this down a little bit if we go onto 8 (b) . Boyt: We're leaving 8(a) yet. . Hoffman: 8(b), as I stated, does go hand and hand with the availability of ballfields. 8(b) discusses the adult softball player eligibility requirements. We're up to 56 teams that participates on 5 nights a week, Monday thru Friday in our adult softball leagues. In the past, probably the farther you go back the more non-residents you have. The more non- resident teams you have just to make a viable league so the people who are actually here in town can participate in an enjoyable league. As the City continues to grow, there's going to be more and more people within our city boundary which would like to participate on a league. As time progresses, we can probably start getting more strict on our requirements for eligibility. The problem in bringing that into play is how the teams now are patterned. They're set in their ways. Anytime you bring up any type of change in eligibility for players, you're going to have some discussion and some problems in dealing with those teams. So you just want to really make yourself think through a clear decision and try to come up with a good policy in which to do so. In which to limit non- residents to our Chanhassen softball leagues. Schroers: This is a little bit off the subject topic. I've had people ask me if we have openings on our team. People from Chanhassen that would like to get on a softball team and we certainly don't. Do any of the team managers contact you and say that they could use a player or two or can we refer people to you who are looking to get on a team? Hoffman: In a few leagues they do. I try to advertise that individuals, new people that are moving into town, if you would like to get on a team and you don't have that contact, to give me a call and hopefully we can . make a match. More times than not, it's just through casual conversation that I talk to a manager and ask them. Most of the team managers do not volunteer that they have an opening on their team so at times it is difficult to make those matches. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 12 . Mady: Larry and I both recognize, at least in the over 35 league, there is probably 3 or 4 teams who consistently have problems getting a.full team of 10 players. I think what we need to do is tell managers in the early meeting that because of problems we have with schedule fields, just the tightness we have, number one, we're going to have to eliminate the outside teams that are coming in that have nobody living in Chanhassen. I'm sorry, but we've got to let our kids play on our fields. Number two, I would like to see us set some kind of a standard to the existing teams who do have residents in Chanhassen, that 60%, 75%, something that live or work in the City of Chanhassen because I know the team I play on from time to time pick up people from outside the area just to fill the team. I don't think that's right. I've told my coach that a number of times but I think until the City sets up a policy on it, my team's going to continue picking up a good ball player from wherever instead of committing to a city that may have problem with their team because we want to keep their position in the league. Boyt: From what I've seen from your coach and I don't know if it's true of other coaches...he calls the neighbors and says, will you play. They never show up but he turns in a roster of names so he's got a team. Mady: It happens. I know a number of the teams that have 17, 18, 20 players on the team. They consistently have trouble getting 9 players the field. We've got to do something. to. Boyt: I think that if more of our children's teams are full of Chanhassen people, they should have priority. Chanhassen residents and people who work in Chanhassen. Schroers: I agree with that. I think that Chanhassen teams and existing teams that have been in the league for a number of years should have priority. When we get down to more of an individual thing, that really opens up a can of worms. We have players that were born and raised, grew up, went to school at Chanhassen. All their roots are in Chanhassen. They basically say that they are from Chanhassen but they got married and maybe now they live in Bloomington or Richfield or someplace like that: Are you going to tell those people that they can't play? Mady: Yes. We've got kids who can't play ball and they do live here and that's the problem. Schroers: I'm talking about adults, not kids. Watson: But adults wlll drive the distance to play ball. Children don't have those kinds of choices. Children play with their friends and they want to be with their friends and they want to play close to home. Boyt: It sounds like it's going to be a lot of hurt feelings in the adult. league but it sounds like we want to change the rules. Schroers: I think before we get to that, eliminating outside teams from the league would make more sense. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 13 . Watson: How many outside teams do we have? Mady: In the adult league, about 2? Hoffman: Yes. Very small percentage and a portion of those outside teams who have outside sponsors, also have people that live or work in Chanhassen participating. I don't think there's probably a team in any of our adult leagues that is strictly an outside team, meaning an organized team from Eden prairie that plays over there and then comes to Chanhassen and plays a night. There's no such team in any of our adult leagues. There are some, so called, outside teams which may be made up of 60% to 75% of outside players. You have to make that distinction. It's either the outside teams would nice to leave but it's better to go by player. Just to give you some more information on that, I did attach that survey and if you noted on there, 3(e) and 3(f) dealt specifically with what other cities are doing for- their eligibility. Robinson: Where's the response to that? Is it on this matrix? . Hoffman: Yes, the response, I don't see it. Under observations, the first page there, number 6 deals with it specifically. About 25% of cities surveyed required all players to live or work in the sports community. Another 25% registered teams by priority system which we did last year and which takes quite a bit of time to do. It's hard to control being the same thing that Sue noted. You can call your neighbors up. You can fill your roster with your playing team and then call all your neighbors and fill the other 10 places with Chanhassen names and it makes your percentage look quite a bit better. So that works to a certain extent. It requires a lot of time on my part going through and ranking, counting the outside players of people who live or work and then coming up with a percentage. 33% respondents allow anywhere from 2 to 7 outside players per team. That seems, it's a popular method in some of our neighboring communities. You allow up to 3 outside players to participate. On a different part of the roster, this is where your 3 outside players can, you put their names down here. They're outside players and either the player pays an outside fee to have the right to play within our community or the team pays an extra $25.00 or $50.00 to have those 1 to 3 outside players. So there are a variety of ways of restricting it. Again, it does look like a good solution but if you look at, as noted on there, if you look at the make-up of our leagues currently, we do probably have 35% outside players which are playing so it affects a lot of people. It affects not only those people but the teams and their players and the other people playing on that team as well. So it gets to be a very vocal opposition. Robinson: I noticed a number of, again I'm referring to this thing where it says, numbers of outsiders allowed. Percent of teams registered by percent of residents. A number of them have zero. . Hoffman: Meaning that no outside players are allowed, yes. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 14 . Robinson: Right. Richfield, Blaine, Edina, Brooklyn Park, Shakopee, Moundview. Boyt: Eden Prairie. Watson: So we wouldn't excactly be clearing new ground if we said that, and if we are running up against the problem where we've got virtually people signing up on the 1st of January for fear they're not going to get a field and there's kids teams that won't be assembled for several months yet and we don't know how many kids are going to come out for these things. Boyt: This year we have 8 sections of kindergarteners at Chanhassen Elementary. That's a tremendous number of T-ball players I'd say. Some of them are from Chaska but we're going to have a big increase in children in our T-ball league. Watson: And their leagues don't form January 1. It's going to be spring and summer before we even know how many teams they have and that sort of thing. It's going to be difficult to be able to schedule them in fields because people are already writing on January 1 to say I want both the fields at Meadow Green Park. We want them to play too but some people can't schedule 7 months in advance. Hoffman: The youth T-ball, ragball, pee wee, has the 3 fields at City Center Park. The field at Rice Marsh Park and Carver Beach Playground Park so that's 4 fields. That's what they have and that's what they'll need to make do with this year. . Boyt: Can we put a backstop at Lake Riley? Mady: You mean Bandimere? Boyt: Yes. Could we put a ball diamond... Mady: Like Carver Beach has? Hoffman: For just pick-up games, we could certainly do that but again, summer soccer does some certain practices down there and we wouldn't want to schedule that. Robinson: It looks, according to the survey, that Chanhassen is pretty liberal with the outsiders. Outsider fee for player. We charge zero. Most of them charge from $8.00, $10.00, $20.00, $25.00 tops at Minnetonka. Eligibility conduct deposit. Some are $20.00 up to $100.00. We charge none. I think we need to tighten up for non-Chanhassen residents. ( Mady: I guess my gut feeling when I look at this thing is I'd like to see us...but I don't want to cut it off entirely either because I know what kind of fear it's going to cause. I know the people who come to your . softball meetings and I know how upset they get about very little things very easily so if we could institute a pOlicy where these 5 people, you get 5 non-resident, non-workers on your team. That gives you 5 people who Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 15 . '- are on the field. You're allowed a roster of 18-20 people so if you wanted that. Watson: then? I was going to say, what percentage would that be, about 25% Mady: Roughly. That gives enough people on the field. If you can't get half your ball players out of Chanhassen, when we're tying up fields as it is, I'm sorry, go play in Minneapolis because Minneapolis will let you come from anywhere. If you pay the dollars, they'll put you on the field someplace. This is just getting to that point. Watson: I think you're being very generous. Mady: 2 to 3 years from now when Lake Ann has 6 fields and hopefully we'll have a park in southern Chanhassen with 4 fields, maybe we'll be able to do something but r.ight now, we're too tight. We need to let our kids play someplace too. I play adult softball. I have been ever since I've lived here. Schroers: What that does, at 50-50 and I think that's reasonable, but what's going to happen is that there's going to be a lot of long time players getting displaced. . '- Hasek: What is the policy right now? Hoffman: The policy, it's stated on 8(b), right on the front. Basically we use a percentage system. Any teams last year, we had 21 teams in the open league, Men's open league who wanted to get in for 14 spots. In order to pare that down, I believe 18 out of those 21 teams submitted a roster. I had to go through that roster. Check those addresses. See if they lived or worked there. Both their resident and their work address. See if they lived or worked and prioritize all those 18 teams into a percentage. 100% live or work. 80% live or work. Draw a line inbetween 14 and 15 and the bottom 4 drop out. That gets to be a very lengthy process. It gets to be a process that doesn't work well because you can have your 10 working players and fill the other 10 with your neighbors who never show up at the ballfield and it's not a real good representation. It's a system that a lot of communities use but it's not the best one I don't believe. So what we're looking for Ed is, we're at a point where are ballfields are getting full and we're trying to tighten up or if it is a reasonable solution, tighten up who's playing adult ball. Hasek: That's for the men's. What is it for the over 35? Hoffman: It's the same. . Hasek: Let's say we go to 3 ball players per roster, that didn't happen? Even though they voted on it, that didn't happen? Hoffman: voted on it at the meeting? - Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 16 . Hasek: Yes. Wasn't there some discussion at the meeting that we had? know we voted on something 3 or 4 times there. I Hoffman: That was if you had to be 35 or older to play on the 35 and league or if you could be under. Hasek: That's right. It's a 35 league and they were trying to decide whether you had to be 35. over Schroers: Todd, do you have a recommendation? An avenue that you'd like to pursue on this? Hoffman: I hesitate to make a recommendation. I'm looking for a recommendation from the Council. Robinson: for you? If we put some restrictions on non-residents, is that workable Would that cause- you big problems in implementing that? Hasek: That's what they're looking for. Somebody to make the rules so they have something to back them because the problem is, you go into those meetings and everybody's throwing stuff at you and if you leave it up to them, they'll never decide. They'll sit there for hours arguing about nothing so really it's up to the board and the recreation department to . set the rules to guide the thing. That's the way it has to be. Sietsema: But you must be aware, if you do limit it to 3 outside players or whatever it is, that we're going to be masses of phone calls. You're going to start getting phone calls. The City Council will get phone calls. The Mayor will get phone calls. The City Manager will get phone calls. Softball is a very emotional game. I don't mean to make a big deal out of nothing but I'll tell you, there are guys that lived in Chanhassen 15 years ago that are now living on the other side of St. Paul that still play here and if we were to say that they can't play, we're going to have, that's the decrepence league. Who's that from? Watson: That's the good 01' boys of baseball... Sietsema: That's just it. It's been really hard for us, especially for the league that's been here the longest, the over 35 league, to change from the good 01' boys beer league to a bonafide city league. It's been a hard, hard thing for them to make that conversion. It's been hard for us to help them make that conversion. Nobody wants to make anybody's life miserable but we've got 3 ballfields and who are we going to allow? The good 01' boys that have always played here forever no matter where lived or the people who are waiting in line to get in? f Hasek: The simple fact is that the ballfields belong to the people that live in this community. All of the people and if you've got a son that wants to play. If you've got a daughter that wants to play. If you've . got a church league within the city that wants to play. Those are first priority. That's the way the thing ought to be set up. We obviously do not want to reject anybody. However, if that's what has to be done in order to accommodate the people in the City, then that is what has to be Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 17 . done. I don't care if you've played in the City for 50 years and you live 20 feet the other side of the City of Chanhassen property, if you don't live in the community and that's what the rules state, then that's what the rule will have to be. I think that anytime you've got somebody that doesn't live in the community and is somehow contributing to the community, playing on a league when you've got someone here that wants to play in any recreation and hasn't a chance because someone else has got a spot that they can take, then it's inappropriate and it has to be rectified. Boyt: I think that's how we need to prioritize it too. We need to find out how many diamonds Little League in Chanhassen needs. How many girls softball needs. How many the little kids need. How many the church leagues need. How many the adult leagues need who are from Chanhassen. Let's start out with how many we need to meet the needs of the people that live in Chanhassen. Mady: We'll never make that. . Hasek: It might actually have to happen that some of the leagues, there might be a group of people that want to bring in some more teams. They've got people calling and they have room for more teams. There might be a league that has teams already playing on it that just are not legal and it might have to be that we have to cut those leagues in order to accommodate the others. Yes, it's not an easy thing to have to do but if that's what has to be done to accommodate the people within the City of Chanhassen, then I think that's exactly what we have to do. I know our mens softball team is going to probably suffer too but if that's the way it has to be, that's the way it has to be. Mady: I make the motion that the City of Chanhassen limit outside softball players to a maximum of5 players per team for this coming year. See what affect it has on our field availability. We may have to do better match our needs, the needs of our residents to our limited use to our limited availability. Knowing full well that there will be probably some major blood letting but I think it's time it has to be done. Robinson: Is there a second to Jim's motion? Boyt: Limit the number of outsiders to 5... Mady: Actually on a team. Boyt: Well, that's it. We have children playing who live in Minnetonka, Eden prairie and Chaska who play in Chanhassen so if you want it to pertain to just adults or to everyone that'~ playing. Mady: If we have a problem, we have a problem across the board, then we need to limit all non-residents so that the residents have first priority. I think 5 is too big a number and that's why I will not second it. . Boyt: Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 18 . Sietsema: If we go down through the children level of playing on your limiting, then we have to notify CAA that they have to restructure their whole registration. Their whole membership process because right now the CAA is set up to serve the area, the kids in the area that Chanhassen Elementary serves and that includes people from Victoria and Chaska as well and Eden Prairie. And the people that go to St. Hubert's. I know that's not, that's just another wrench in the works but that may have a major affect of how Chanhassen Athletic Association is run. Mady: Those people actually, they're part of the school. They're here so I'll amend my motion to limit it to the adult league. Robinson: Is there a second to Jim's motion now? Hasek: I'll second if it's going to be for adults. Boyt: Like I said, I think 5 is too big a number and I'd go for 3. Robinson: I would agree with you Sue. I think we should probably phase into this with a number like that. I too think 5 is too high. 3 would be more appropriate in my mind. Hasek: Could we suggest perhaps that this year it be 5 letting them know. that next year it's going to be 3? Watson: I think if you give them a lot of advanced warning is really going to improve their attitude towards it. They're just going to be mad well in advance then. Hasek: What's the practical difference between 3 and 5 in numbers? We're talking about how many teams? How many bodies? Boyt: 56 teams. Hasek: So we're talking about 112 people. Robinson: Max. Hasek: Between 3 and 5. Mady: Knowing full well there's a lot of people playing both leagues. The mens leagues. The open mens leagues. Hasek: How would those be checked on there? Boyt: On the roster you turn in, your Chanhassen roster and 3 people on it can be your out of town roster. Mady: I'll tell you how this all works. I've played a fair amount of . softball prior to moving to Chanhassen. I lived one summer both, well I actually lived in Edina. I was a resident at my parent's house in Minneapolis and a real good friend of mine lived in Bloomington and played softball in those 3 leagues ~o that will happen here. At least it's Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 19 . sending a message out to try to get it down. See if we can get some control on this. Hopefully within a couple of years when we do have the new parks in place, it will free it up. We also know the City's growing in leaps and bounds and it's just really tough. Hasek: So the two pieces of information that you really have to check, could potentially be employment or a driver's license because a driver's license is supposedly to be, has to have your legal address right? I guess I would strongly encourage that if we're going to do this, that we make every effort possible to really buckle down on it. If it's going to be a rule, it's got to be cracked down on. If you're going to require them as a resident to have a driver's license, then let's check those things. Boyt: Is that like a bond lease put on a team? Hasek: A lot of communities will do that. An eligibility bond and if you've got a player playing caught who is not eligible to play, you lose your bond. Robinson: Is that this eligibility conduct deposit? Hoffman: Correct. . ~ Boyt: That sounds like something we might want to implement. Watson: Just to keep it honest. Schroers: I would like to know that if we limit it or whatever the number, if it's 5 or 3, that it's going to accomplish what we want to do. Is it going to make enough fields available that if we limit it to 5 or if we limit it to 3, do we know that? Hoffman: We don't know that for a fact but it's definitely going to help the problem. It can't get any worse. If it doesn't help it to a degree, frees up 3 fields or frees up 1 field, it makes us look like we're trying to make an effort in that direction. You just go as close as Eden prairie and a non-resident...softball teams can make a reservation to use one of their fields so we are very lenient. To answer Ed's question more directly, communities such as Eden prairie, St. Louis Park require a copy of a driver's license and/or a pay stub if you work in that city right along with your roster when you turn it in. We've heard cries of pain from people thinking it was difficult in the past to get their league roster in and this will just be- all that much more but you are right in stating that if we are going to instate these restrictions, they should be enforced. Robinson: And we're not new in this then if Eden prairie is? . Sietsema: No, you're not a trend setter that's for sure. - Hoffman: No. That's the reason I attached that survey, the softball survey which is very helpful. It is the reason I attached both of these Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 20 . on the same issue is because if we do make these changes, we are going to have questions and we do want to have ourselves backed up. Doing so is the problems we're having with the ballfield scheduling is really one reason why we should be making an effort. Boyt: I think like Curt said, if it does not alleviate the problem enough that we're getting towards zero next year... Hasek: I think it's only fair that if we're really shooting for zero, if that's what it's going to take down the road here, that it's only fair to give them a warning that that potential exists. Watson: This year it will be... Hasek: No, just say for this year it will be 5 but there is the possibility that next year it might be zero simply because of the number of fields that we have. We've got fields coming on line but they're 2 years down the road and the demand is now. It's not 2 years from now. How it's going to affect our league? Just looking at the 35 league, we've got what, 3 teams that will be gone? Hoffman: Potentially the team name could be wrong. A portion of the players could be back under another name or on another team. Hasek: Sure, but I'm saying if you look simply at the teams and the rosters for the teams, there's 3 of them. Two of them from Chaska and 1 from Excelsior right? . Hoffman: Yes, but I would say every team is going to be affected in having to restrict some of their outside players. Knowing the over 35 league and it's personality, those people have been together for a long time and you run into a team situation where you've got 15 or 20 guys sitting around there trying to figure out which outside players they're going to say good-bye to and which ones are going to stay, you can imagine they're not going to, they're going to try to get out of that situation anyway they can. Mady: ...at It might be possible to go to a fee or something. the end of the year. A deposit they Robinson: I'll go for $100.00. Boyt: $100.00 eligibility bond. Robinson: Most of th~m are $100.00. Mady: Yes, whatever the price is. See what the going rate is. r Robinson: $100.00. There's one at $20.00 and a couple at $50.00 but most are Would you like to put that in your motion Jim or not? . Mady: Yes, I think it's necessary. . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 21 Schroers: That and the notification that things could change next year. So if you want to restructure it, then I'll support your motion. Hoffman: Before you do that Jim, you may also want to take a look at, some communities charge the individual outside players for that right. Some charge the team for allowing them to have those. Some just do not charge for those outside players. That may be something, as long as we're going through the changes, to look at it completely. Hasek: I think if we can settle the eligibility problems, just at the first crack at it here, we'll take a look at that issue. Todd, I would request, we've got a meeting coming up with the over 35 league, when in May? Hoffman: Organizational meeting, end of March. Hasek: We should get this- information out, if we decide on it, as quickly as possible. Hoffman: This would be mailed to all leagues. Mady: You want me to recite my motion? . Hasek: I think she's got it don't you? The revisions? Sietsema: Yes, pretty much. Jim moved to limit outside players to 5 in the adult leagues for the year 1989 and monitor to see if it makes a difference and to instigate a $100.00 eligibility bond and to notify the players that it may be more restrictive in years to come. Hasek: Okay, just a lit tIe comment about checki ng on, maki ng sure that if we're going to do this, that it gets checked and verified. Something, driver's license or I think the work pay stubs is a good idea. Sietsema: And to direct staff to verify eligibility. Robinson: Do you still second that motion Ed? Hasek: Yes. Mady moved, Hasek seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission limit the number of outside players to 5 in the adult league for the year 1989 and monitor the situation to see if it makes a difference. Instigate a $100.00 eligibility bond for each team, direct staff to verify eligibility and to notify the players that eligibility may become more restrictive in the years to come. Mady, Hasek and Schroers voted in favor. Robinson, Boyt and Watson voted in opposition. The motion failed with a tie vote of 3 to 3. . Robinson: Restructure it? Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 22 - . Hasek: Let's hear a motion from one on the other side then. Boyt: Same motion but limit it to 3. Watson: Second. Boyt moved, Watson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission limit the number of outside players to 3 in the adult league for the year 1989 and monitor the situation to see if it makes a difference. Instigate a $100.00 eligibility bond for each team, direct staff" to verify eligibility and to notify the players that eligibility may become more restrictive in the years to come. Mady, Hasek and Schroers voted in opposition. Robinson, Boyt and Watson voted in favor. The motion failed with a tie vote of 3 to 3. Hasek: to 4. Okay, let's compromise. Second? Let's go to 4. Same motion but let's go Robinson: That dies for lack of second. Is there another motion? Hasek: The problem that exists here is, if we don't do something we're going to be stuck so we have to make a decision. We can't sit here all . night and playa game with this. Let's come up with a number that we can agree with. If 5 is too many and 3 is too few, what's wrong with 4? Mady: What we're trying to do, I know unless you attended that over 35 meeting, Todd and Lori are going to be, you're going to have, Don is going to get more phone calls because of this probably than on any other issue we'll ever look at in the next year. Boyt: You know what? I have a 10 year play Little League in Chanhassen at all facilities so I don't care if there's a that's upset about this. I don't care. old son who might not be able to because we do not provide a man who lives in Eden prairie I want my 10 year old children... Mady: But he's going to be the one who calls. Boyt: I don't care if they call me. I want our kids in Chanhassen to be able to play ball in Chanhassen. Not to go to South Tonka. Not to go to Chaska. To be able to play in their hometown. Schroers: That's reasonable, I'll compromise. Hasek: I make the same motion with 4. Is there a second? Mady: Second. ( Hasek moved, Mady seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission limit the number of outside players to 4 in the adult league for the year 1989 and monitor the situation to see if it makes a difference. Instigate a . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting January 24, 1989 - Page 23 . $100.00 eligibility bond for each team, direct staff to verify eligibility and to not i fy the players that elig i b i 1 i ty may become more restr icti ve in the years to come. All voted in favor except Boyt and Watson who opposed and the motion carried. Hasek: Sue, I think next year we're going to zero. I see it coming. Boyt: I don't think it should happen in one fell swoop. Watson: I'm going to be real curious to see what significant difference this makes in those teams so that we know if we went to zero, what we'd really be opening up. Hasek: I'll bet you it's going to make a difference. We've probably got one of most legal teams in this league and it's going to make a difference on our team. Robinson: Could you let us know that? Hoffman: I'll bring that back to you. I'll bring a listing of how many teams are in each league at this time. It will make an affect. It will make an affect in our womens league because our womens league is not up to . par as far as having a great deal of Chanhassen people in there. There are a lot of people but there are a lot of people from outside as well just to build the league so it will have an affect. Once our organizational meetings are over and our leagues are underway, I'll bring that back to a meeting. Mady: We might need to go to a traveling league type concept. A number of the smaller communities around have done with their over 35 league to get them all legal so if you only get 2 teams out of Chanhassen, maybe they can go traveling to Chaska and Excelsior and Victoria. Hoffman: We shouldn't have too much of a problem. Our co-rec league which just started on Friday nights last year with 6 teams, that may be dumped. It may not go this year because there will not be enough residents that want to participate and if that is the case, then Friday evenings will be open for some of these sports. Schroers: I think the real answer here, and I hope that this encourages us to be as expediant as we can with the development of Lake Ann and our new facilities. Get the work on them and get them going so we can accommodate. Sietsema: It just happens to be the next item on the agenda. REVIEW GRADING PLAN FOR LAKE ANN PARK, LAURIE MCROSTI. . Sietsema: Laurie McRosti is here from OSM to go over the grading plan. Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 14, 1989 - Page 23 . Schroers moved, Mady seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to approve the final design for sidewalks along Carver Beach Road and Laredo Road as presented and to pursue the necessary funding. Also, to set up the bid package to include a bid for A, Laredo Drive; B, Carver Beach Road; and C, both A and B combined. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Mady: Then we'll discuss the funding of this project when we go through the Capital Improvement Program discussion. VISITOR PRESENTATION - JOHN SEAMANS REGARDING SOFTBALL ELIGIBILITY. Mady: I had number 6 as a visitors presentation regarding softball eligibility. Lori indicated to me that John Seamans asked that this be pulled off of our agenda. "There are some things that I'd like to talk about softball eligibility. I know Jeff Bros is here from CAA to give us some comments concerning this. Sietsema: Jeff will be here in two weeks with the rest of the people that are against the eligibility rule and they basically wanted to organize the people that were against it and why so they came together with a more organized format I think. . Robinson: Why was this put on the agenda in the first place? Sietsema: Because there are people out there that wanted to appeal to you to modify it or to change it or to delete it. To air their greviances. Robinson: You said there would be hundreds of them probably. Boyt: They're trying to get all of them together rather than coming in themselves so they can all come in two weeks. Hasek: I have a quick question for you. You said we sent it to Council have we not? Sietsema: It doesn't go to Council. This is our policy that we set. Mady: Council discussed it last night. Hasek: What was their comment? Mady: Well, it was just mainly Tom Workman in Council Presentation just wanted to make the Council aware that the policy was changed and that there has been some negative feedback already to the city staff and various members of the commissions and what have you and to just alert them to a very potential issue. Volatile issue. Schroers: I've been confronted by some people personally. . Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 14, 1989 - Page 24 . Mady: I've talked to a number of people...the youth sports coaches who are looking at this very favorably. This is a plus. Robinson: I guess that's my concern. Should we round up the people that are in favor of this and have them make a presentation? We made the decision. We knew it would be tough. Sietsema: But as in all other issues, we do provide people with the opportunity to discuss how they feel about it and how it affects them. We may not have reviewed all of the reasons, all of the ways it can affect people. For instance, it may totally disban the women's organization. The women's softball. Councilman Workman's concern was that it was going to affect the level of play in the open league. The over 35 league is concerned because there's people that have played there forever that are no longer going to be able to play. They want to make sure that you have taken into, right now it's viewed as a cold and heartless thing that you've done without taking -their feelings into consideration and their situation and consideration. This letter has just bGen sent out and they are out without a voice. I think that they've all played here in the City and they should be able to come in and talk to us about it. It may not be comfortable but we should allow them that opportunity. Robinson: That's true. It's like taking away the trail on Lake Lucy Road .Without... Boyt: I think what Ed said was right. That we maybe contact the youth sports people as well as the adult softball because it's not only the adult softball people who will be affected. Sietsema: That may help them to understand why it came to be and why we have to bite the bullet and do something like this. There may be a compromise out there that can soften the blow. Boyt: We've already looked at a couple of different options since then. There are some privately owned fields in Chanhassen. Two at DataServ and one at the Legion that maybe we can do something with those. Hasek: If we pick up the insurance on them. Boyt: If we do some work to the fields maybe or something but there are other options out there that we can look at. Hasek: This is coming up in two weeks? Hasek: How difficult a job would it be to take a look at rosters for all of the teams last year? Just assuming the same people are going to return to see how this would have impacted last year's teams. To take a look and see. Now I know that there's a lot of people, approving it is one thing and I know there's a lot of people on the over 35 rosters, I .shouldn't say a lot, I do know of people on the over 35 rosters who did not live or work in Chanhassen but miraculously had Chanhassen addresses so that would be a little bit confusing but if we throw in say 10% or something for that. How hard would it be to find out how many teams have Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 14, 1989 - Page 25 . been adversely impacted? How many could not have fielded a team and how many fields that would have opened up and how would it impact the overall crowding of the fields? Hoffman: A couple of days for all the leagues. Hasek: Is that worth it? Would it help us? The thing that confuses me is, we've done something and I feel that we've done the right thing. I think that we made the right choice. The impact may not be there to the fullest extent this year but perhaps next year or the year after that is when we're really going to understand how important it was to make the decision now. The question I'm asking is, we're not going to know that until we see after the beginning of this year what kind of response we get and what kind of teams we actually fill. Now if we looked at last years, it might give us an idea of what kind of an impact this thing would have had had we made the decision the year before that on last year's team. Schroers: I think that's pretty much what I when we made our change. If we only allow 3 whatever, how much good is this going to do? us achieve what we want to do? I think your only way we're going to know is to implement it goes. asked Todd at the meeting players or 5 players or Is it really going to help response to that was, the it and watch it and see where Hoffman: It's definitely going to open up more field space but as far as . the scheduling match, trying to make a match in heaven for one year, these leagues have been used to playing on Tuesday nights so we implement this rule this year and if a Tuesday evening opens up, that may not be the best evening for the Babe Ruth or for the girls softball but over a period of years they'll mold into those spots. I'm not exactly sure what the perfect match of times will be but it will definitely ease the problem which is getting worse year after year. Hasek: I personally know of two teams in the over 35 league that will be eliminated and two teams that were in the, what was that, the open league we had our church teams in? Sietsema: Open. Hasek: Both of our Mt. Calvary teams will disappear this year. We can get around that. We've talked about ways of doing that but we're thinking about starting two leagues with people who live in Chanhassen playing on one team and people who live in for example maybe Shorewood playing on a Shorewood team or playing on an Excelsior team, whatever that is. Splitting it up that way. That's a lot more hassle than simply getting a group of people together from the church and splitting them down the middle and trying to even out the talent and so forth but right there's 4 teams which could potentially eliminate 1 evening of playing. Opening up a field. I think the impact is there and it's just goi ng to be c;l ma tter . of how great it is. I guess I still ask that question. Is it worth it to spend the time to take a look at what last year's rosters may have looked like and what kind of teams we could have filled it with last year if we had implemented the rule the year before. Then at least when these people Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 14, 1989 - Page 26 . corne, we can say, listen this is what it would have done and it will give us some ammuni.tion to discuss it with. We're not going to sit up here saying well, we don't know. At least then we'll have an indication maybe of what's going on and what the potential would have. I don't want to sit here and just listen to a bunch of people yell and scream without having any response to them. Schroers: I think that we certainly have justification for our actions. I really don't feel insecure about defending our position on that. Everybody knows that our system was definitely overtaxed and we had to do something and if you take a look at the surrounding communities, the information that Todd provided for us, we are far in a way still more liberal than many of our neighbors so I think we're being reasonable at the very least. Hasek: I agree. I absolutely agree but you can hear the question already. How is this going to impact it? How do you know? Mady: As long as Todd has the time, if he can make the time available between now and then, it's important information for us to have. Hasek: Even if you can go through the important ones greatest demand right now. Just start with those and would happen in this league alone. These teams would .WOUld open up another night which we could have stuck demand. Stick in this demand. where there's the say, this is what be eliminated which in this particular Boyt: I think you need numbers from youth sports too. Girls softball and how that's grown and they're starting a new softball program for younger girls this year and how many kids are in T-ball, ragball, and pee wee compared to a year ago. We need the numbers of the children and the numbers of the adults. Hasek: Because it's not only, I know who's going to be here mostly. I know it's going to be the adults and it's going to be mostly the over 35 people that are here. At least that's my gut feeling. The problem is, they're not the only league and I want to make sure that we have at least... Sietsema: The only league that won't be affected by this is the industrial league. Hoffman: I can give you a pretty clear understanding of how each league will be affected. However, you can't just base your total knowledge on that because softball teams, like any entity are very moldable and they'll change. I could say, well I think we're going to get 10 teams back in our over 35 league where we're at 15 last year and we could well show up with 13 to 14 teams just because people are going to have to go there and find some Chanhassen people that are eligible players to play. That is a very real thing that can happen. I just think it's a real sound policy which .we've instated. I've answered a lot of questions. Talked to a lot of people. Everybody agrees that it is a good policy but they have a problem with it because it affects them and are we going to change our mind? Are we going to bend the rules for one league? Are we going to bend the rules Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 14, 1989 - Page 27 . for another league? I think we're in a real good position to go ahead and start this policy this year. Hasek: Most of the time, the people that will be here are probably the ones that have a problem with the policies that we've tried to implement. They're the ones that show up and they're the ones that speak the loudest. However, they don't speak for everybody and often times the people that are in favor of it don't show up simply because they agree with it. They figure it's going to happen that way. Is it possible that we, and maybe that's our job. Maybe we should simply try to get a hold of those people but maybe the people who are in charge of the leagues, are there any people that are like in charge of Little League? I don't know what's going on out there. How those things are structured but maybe they should be made aware of our policy. Mady: Jeff is President of CAA. Boyt: Chanhassen Athletic Association. That's K through 5. Hasek: It would be nice to have those people here too so that they understand that the decision that's being made is intended to help the leagues and not to discourage the leagues. Mady: I had a call from Brad Johnson who I guess is attempting to get . Babe Ruth teams actually for Chanhassen, requesting that the baseball field at Lake Ann be set aside for baseball at least every night of the week for the first hour at least. These are things we need to look at. Maybe we can leave the lights on at Lake Ann an extra hour. Sietsema: That's another thing that's been approached by some softball players in the open league. They asked if they could not grandfather in the existing out of town players and play 4 games on the lighted field. Play longer on the lighted field and free up field #3 for Little League or whatever that would take. The problem with grandfathering in is that doesn't, that means we've got the same number of teams and everything that we had last year. It doesn't cut it down. Hasek: Well, in effect we are grandfathering in, 3 or 4? Hoffman: 4. Hasek: We decided on grandfathering in 4 people. If they wanted to do that, they have the right to grandfather. We just said we simply can't afford to grandfather a whole team in or a majority of the team or a team that consists mainly or to a large extent, with people who live outside of Chanhassen. Because it's going to change. It's got to. Other communities have already realized it and they've gone ahead and made that decision already and they've gone through the same sqwak that we're going to get so we might as well just bite the bullet and do it. . Boyt: Since Jeff is here, did you want to say anything tonight or do you want to wait? Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 14, 1989 - Page 28 . Jeff Bros: We're struggling too, as a community and as an athletic association. Last year we had a real hard time putting together a Babe Ruth team which are boys, late junior high, probably freshman in high school. That age group. 13 to 15 I believe. As we've talked with Todd before, one of our biggest problems is playing with Chaska and Minnetonka teams. We don't have a good baseball field in this town so that's been one drawback. It's been partially our problem too from the fact that we've had a real hard time getting the population into the sport. This year Brad Johnson's working on it. Last year we filled up 2 teams for Babe Ruth alone and I think we had 2 or 3 Little League teams. Boyt: Four. Jeff Bros: Was it 4 and they have minor and majors so they're playing different levels there also so you can't mix those. The same with the Babe Ruth. They have two different levels there so you can't mix those. They have to have their own time on the fields. Six teams last year, I guessing it's going to be probably 5 Little League teams this year. Our population of baseball last grew 30% over 87 in all the leagues. Boyt: It would be higher if it were in Chanhassen but a number of kids drive out when the parents find out they have to go to Minnetonka to play. They just drive them out. Normally it's the parents that drive them out. -Jeff Bros: Being the ages that our kids are, having the lack of organization that we've had for those age groups has been a problem. It's going to grow and this year I think you'll see a big jump in that. As far as the K through 5 kids, we don't have a problem because we're at the school or the Chan Estates or last year we used Carver Beach Park and those are find for the little kids. The smaller the better as far as I'm concerned but it gets to be the Little League and Babe Ruth where we need to be able to supply these kids with some good quality fields which we're close. The ballfield over at Lake Ann isn't too bad but we need to give them the quality time on the fields also. That's the big thing. Boyt: We have had kids from Eden prairie and Chaska participating in our sports programs so that's something that, if we're going to put restraints on the adults, are there going to be restraints on the children? And from what you said, the Chaska sports program is kind of going downhill so we're apt to get more kids involved in our programs over the next year from Chaska. Park and Rec Commission Meeting February 14, 1989 - Page 29 . year for their eligibility. I would like to see us, part of that policy is if a team is shown to be ineligible and forfeits their bond, that they also forfeit all their games for this year. They do not play any longer in Chanhassen and next year they can not be in Chanhassen. I think we have to make sure this gets, if this is what the policy is going to be, some teams $100.00, they'll spend the money, they'll spend any amount of money to get a place to play because the fields that are open that you can play in, some cities have a lot of openings, there just aren't any fields available so I want to make sure that we do this, that we have the proper teeth in... Hoffman: As it's stated right now, the player and/or players involved and the team involved would be suspended for the year. Schroers: I think that's adequate. I think that's making a strong enough statement. If they're caught being ineligible and we disban the team for the year, that's going to get the point across. Mady: I just wanted to make sure that was there. I wasn't positive when we brought that up for discussion. Is there any further discussion because this is coming back next time? Schroers: Just very quickly, a couple of more controversial or vocal people in regards to this issue have approached me and when you lay all . the cards out logically, it's just like, what would you do, there really aren't a lot of options. You have to make sense. It's one of those issues where there isn't a totally right or a totally wrong answer and no one is going to be happy. You just have to do the best we can do under the circumstances and I feel that that's what we've done and it's going to be pretty hard for anyone to legitimately argue against it. Mady: Last night the Council, when I was giving just a brief synopsis of my feelings on it, I told them that I felt that the City's recreational programs with the softball and baseball league and a few things, the City has historically been biased toward adults in field use and that we need to start getting a little more biased towards our kids because that's where our future is. Those are the people who we need to make sure keep out of trouble. They need to have their time organized. A tape changed occured at this point and discussion changed to the next item. PRIORITIZATION OF 1989 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. Mady: ...money being spent for other projects, makes the most sense. Something that's been mentioned maybe coming out of the pot is the Bluff Creek signage and access roads, $11,000.00. Sietsema: If I could just clarify something about that. The reason . I believe that the Bluff Creek Park access road was put in was an anticipation of the trail plan going through and that would give us a vehicular way to access the rural trails and the nature trails in the . To Whom it May Concern: I'm very disappointed in your choices in handling the shortages of ball fields in Chanhassen. Why are you putting these restrictions on your fields, When Chanhassen youth use Chaska & Excelsior fields, Chanhassen adults also play various sports in Chaska & Excelsior? I've talked to some of the Chanhassen residents and I'm not hearing from them that their as dis- satisfied as the letter to the teams claims. I've also been lead to believe that your overstating the demand for the fields in Chanhassen. Isn't the real truth the fact that you have already promised all fields to youth ball? Did'nt you also promise Excelsior that Lake Ann would be used only for youth ball and that a large sum of money would go towards putting in mounds, batting cages, ect. . Chanhassen has been growing very rapidly. It's becoming a very beautiful city. I hope your not doing a disservices to the community as a whole by putting into effect the non-resident restrictions. This could have some long standing negative results. It's a sad thing when a community gets selfish, thats just what I'm seeing. You think It's alright for Chanhassen to use facilities in other communities, but you want to pick and choose who uses your facilities. Personally I don't want to do business in a city that promotes this kind of thinking. If the restrictions do go into effect, I will contact friends, family and others and encourge them not to do business of any kind in Chanhassen. My family attends Church in Chanhassen, Weve played softball in Chanhassen and done business in Chanhassen. We would like to continue to do so. I hope you reconsider the non-resident restrictions. &:)5~ Carol Pike 112508 Scott Lane West Chaska,Minnesota 55318 . FEB 2.4 1989 CitY. OF CHANHASSEN CITY 0 F CHAHHASSEH b . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinator~ February 23, 1989 DATE: SUBJ: Lake Lucy Access The City of Chanhassen has resolved to commit to the Lake Riley Chain of Lakes Clean-up Project. As you know, the City's involvement includes providing access on each of the lakes in the chain. The Park and Recreation Commission held a public hearing last July with Lake Lucy residents to exchange information and ideas on how to provide access on that lake. Staff had anticipated that this process would have moved much . more quickly than what has occurred; however, the grant status has not been certain at the state level and therefore I was hesi- tant to proceed with pursuing access. Currently the sub-state agreement is being executed at the state level and the Watershed's Engineer, Bob Obermeyer, is working on the work plan. The grant has not been given final approval, but it is anticipated such will happen as long as Chanhassen shows progress in the area of access. Mr. Obermeyer has indicated that it is necessary for Lake Lucy to be included in the project as it is the first lake in the chain. The work that will be done on Lake Lucy, specifically, includes fish kills, restocking the lake with game fish, and installing a winter aeration system that will prevent winter kills. The bene- fits of this work to Lake Lucy will be improved water quality, stabilization of the lake bottom and a decrease in algae. The second issue discussed at the public hearing was locating a suitable site for access. The general concensus was that restricting the boat and/or motor size was not desirable, as such would apply to lakeshore owners as well as access users. With this in mind, I asked Mark Koegler to prepare a study of the area which would compare all potential access sites. Attached please find the study which outlines in detail the merits of each possibility. This item is scheduled to not only get the . . . . Park and Recreation Commission February 23, 1989 Page 2 reaction of the Park and Recreation Commission, but of the public as well. If a consensus is reached as to a site to proceed, a recommendation should be sent to the City Council and to the Planning Commission to pursue acquisition. Attachments 1. Lake Lucy Access Study. 2. Minutes of July 26, 1988. 3. Staff report dated July 13, 1988. 4. Staff report and information dated April 1, 1988. Lake Lucy Access Study City of Chanhassen February, 1989 ~ VanDoren Hazard Stallings architEcts · EnginEErs. plannErs topeka . wichita. minneapolis . kansas city . . . 1 . LAKE LUCY ACCESS STUDY INTRODUCTION/PURPOSE This report provides an overview of potential public access locations on Lake Lucy in north central Chanhassen. For the purposes of this study, "public access" is defined as a publicly owned or controlled parcel of land whose purpose is to provide access to Lake Lucy. Lake Lucy is categorized by the State of Minnesota as public waters. Facilities at a public access include required entrance roads, . parking, a boat ramp and associated facilities. Standards utilized by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) require the provision of one parking space for every 20 acres of surface water. Lake Lucy consists of a total of 135 acres necessitating the provision of seven parking spaces. PLANNING CONTEXT . Public access to Lake Lucy is being sought for two primary reasons. The first is related to a lake clean up ~roject and the second is due to City policy. Over the past 10 years, a variety of studies of water quality have been done for lakes throughout the Twin Cities Metropol itan Area. Lake Riley, located in south central Chanhassen, has frequently been included in such studies. The watershed affecting Lake Riley has a number of tributary lakes including Rice Marsh, Lake Susan, Lake Ann and at the north end, Lake Lucy (Figure 1). All of these lakes and their surrounding drainage areas have an impact on Lake Riley. Because of the physical connection each of the lakes, the clean up of Lake Riley requires clean up efforts on each of the lakes in the watershed including Lake Lucy. In August of 1985, a report entitled "Lake Riley Diagnostic Study" was completed by Barr Engineering. The report identified water quality problems in a number of lakes including Lake Lucy. Based partially on that report, the Riley-Purgatory Watershed District in conjunction with other state and local agencies applied for federal (EPA) funding under the Clean Lakes Act to specifically identify problems and effectuate clean up procedures. The total project which carries a cost of just under one million dollars involves a thorough analysis of problems in the watershed area and follow up actions including but not limited to fish kills and restocking, fish barriers, aeration systems, weed harvesting and chemical treatments. Under federal guidelines utilized for the Clean Lakes Program, all lakes within a watershed area that receives federal assistance are required to provide public access. Additionally, it is the policy of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources to require public access prior to the restocking and continued stocking of game fish. At the present time, Lake Lucy is the only lake in the Lake Riley 2 . . . 3 . - o I 1 I Scale in Miles o 1 2 I . I I I Scale In Kilometers 2 I e?22 Areas not Contibuting to Surface Water Drainage. Figure '1 lake Riley Watershed -N"- lake lucy Access Study Watershed without either an existing public access or an access under construction. As a result, this study is investigating potential locations that will satisfy both federal and state criteria for public accesses. Federal and state agencies are on record as stating that without a public access to Lake Lucy, the Lake Riley Watershed clean up project will not be funded. In addition to the federal and state access requirements tied to the clean up funding, policies adopted by the City of Chanhassen encourage public access. The 1980 Comprehensive Plan states, "Chanhassen has a long standing goal of providing a public access on each lake within the city. The community contains all or part of ten lakes which are legally public waters and, as such, should be accessible. Because it is impossible for everyone to live on a lake, the establishment of public accesses is imperative if the entire community is to enjoy the amenities associated with lakes." The provision of an access to Lake Lucy would also fulfill the goal identified in the Comprehensive Plan. POTENTIAL ACCESS LOCATIONS 4 . . With two exceptions, Lake Lucy is surrounded entirely by privately owned land. Exhibit 2 identifies the ownership of parcels contiguous to Lake Lucy. The City of Chanhassen maintains a neighborhood park (Greenwood Shores) on the east side which is labeled as parcell. The DNR owns a parcel on the north end of the lake that is designated as parcel 19. The remaining shoreland is . 5 ...\ '.J LilliE - "- - - 24 'KE A/lRI SON ~. . 24 LAKE ANN . .~ ~.". ,.: f.. ..... !. "0. .: : . .. '" '-.... -.,.... .-.....: '. . "._.." '00' 1 City of Chanhassen 9 Dale Carlson 17 R. Christensen Figure 2 2 Jeff Farmakes 10 Alfred Olsen 18 Warren Phillips 3 Dan Fisher 11 Ron Knudlen 19 DNR 4 Tom Folsom 12 Gera 1 d Hoffman 20 Rosa 11 e Dodd Property Ownership 5 James Buehring 13 Jim Schluck 21 "ark Sanda 6 Tom Hickey 14 Theodore Coey 22 Eric Rivkin 7 Wi 11 iam Ward 15 Joseph "orin 23 Judith Dirks 8 Ed Neuinski 16 Brian Tichy 24 pr hce R. He 150n . N~ 10 1500 11000 200J lake lucy Access Study 6 privately owned with the majority associated with single family residences. One notable exception exists. Prince R. Nelson owns a substantial tract of land along the south and western shorelines of the lake. The total frontage owned by this individual constitutes approximately 33% of the entire lakeshore. . POTENTIAL ACCESS CONSTRAINTS The identification of an access site on Lake Lucy is hindered by a number of factors including property ownership, wetlands and the limited size of the lake which results in limited shoreline availability. In general, the northern end of the lake contains wetland areas which either prohibit access or result in expensive dredging operations. The eastern side of the lake is developed . into single family lots. As was noted previously, the southern and western shores are under one ownership. Privacy and security concerns of the property owner realistically preclude acquisition of any of the southern and western shoreline areas. Additionally, large portions of this area are designated as Class A wetlands by the City of Chanhassen. Despite these limitations, four sites have been identified as possible access points to the lake. The sites are shown on Exhibit 3. Site A - Greenwood Shores Park Greenwood Shores Park contains approximately 3.5 acres. Because of its location, the park has lakeshore on both Lake Ann and Lake . 7 __ ' " ~Il'" _./1........' Ao. I 1 .. , J RII lEe J-~"""" /'.. i 1",,,'i~'O"':; z~ ~ CREll~Vlf .t'''r~ ~ ~ c"~T~~ Qo..~ ~ ~~ '\0'T.l!7~~ I I ..... ..... '- - "<t~ 1 L KE~ ,~'-CH~IINO ~ .... ~"'. LH~'h- .. ~ '-- u lUl\' ......)0110 0 , "15":' , '... .~ ler LA~ R( All ~..., (J . ........-""" i... - 1-+1 C( eS5 loa''''' IW t:.S' ~ 1_ 4. ~ U ~ ~ ~ ~) ~ r-- __~~ _ "oJ .,::::;:. . ... ~ ~ I ~! \!i!i!!I\ c~. ~. ~~ ~ .:.:.:.:.:.: . '_ ~ .' ~~.-.I / d l-- \//::. ~ \'" ~ ~ ~ g. let ~ D""'\:'!:::',~~g~ ;I~~~~i\ ~ u ~ '; '.~7 ~~~ ~,,~ I l - ..I.',~ Lff< ~l LAKE LUCY 'I: - r-l ~Ja. ~~ \ ~._ _ ~~ -:Nt~('ri - ~ - II ~ - 1 ~I J ~ ~ :._ _ _.' ,:) - ~r -t - .J. ~ - . J ~ ~ i ~~[ 3 t - j ~[ - , I :-: .' -:1\ U IC ~ t AT ~ c . ''-~ ~~ .'l\) \ ~~ c:&.. , I c.: II - - " - - tKE ~. ." Itl SON .::: I. II -, I4.J S o Q) ~ ....... . _: .... .~~.~ :..... . I ~/ ~. ~ ~, "\\ . \\ ~, :-.: ~\ LAKE ANN /,1 !~ .II \ -,' - \. -.' ~.(. !. '/ . '. r-.. . .' i'.. . :' .... ': , . -.'.. ....... , r I Figure 3 Potential Sites · Nt'. 10 1500 11000 200J lake lucy Access Study 8 Lucy. The Lake Lucy shoreline is approximately 100 feet in length. The park is classified as a neighborhood park and primarily serves the surrounding Greenwood Shores residential area. . The land area of Greenwood Shores Park is sufficient for construction of a boat access and associated parking. Use of the parcel for an access would, however, terminate use of the property as a neighborhood park. Due to the shape and size of the site, accommodation of both uses would be impossible. Additionally, construction of an access would have a detrimental impact on adjacent residences due to the close proximity of existing homes and on the entire neighborhood area. Access to the park is via Utica Lane which is designed to serve as a local street. . Site B - Dodd Property The shape of Lake Lucy creates a peninsula on the north end. The peninsula, in plan view, appears to be a good location for a public access. The owner of the peninsula also owns a 33 foot wide parcel of land which connects to Lake Lucy Road (Exhibit 3). This parcel could be used to provide road access to the peninsula area. In the field, however, one gains a different perspective of the Dodd property. The 7.9 acre parcel consists of a heavily wooded knob bordered on the northwest side by a large wetland area. The wetland area is designated as Class A by the City of Chanhassen. Development of the parcel as an access is possible, however, the . 9 . project would substantially impact the wetland areas and the cost of the road and the boat ramp construction would be extremely high due to soil conditions and topography. According to the Carver County Soil Survey, soils in the wetland area are exclusively marsh, muck and deep peat. Site C - DNR Property Site C consists of approximately 1.5 acres of land owned by the Minnesota Wildlife Heritage Foundation which is administered by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR). The property which lies immediately north of Site B presently contains a trail used by pedestrians, skiers and snowmobiles and an identification sign. . Road access to the DNR property could be via the 33 foot wide strip of land identified on Exhibit 3 as "Road Access". The land comprising the DNR site is virtually 100% wetland. The area which is designated Class A by the City of Chanhassen contains exclusively marsh soils according to the Carver County Soil Survey. As such, the land is essentially undevelopable due to soil conditions and adverse impacts to the extensive wetland area. Site D - Dirks Property Site D which lies on the northwest side of Lake Lucy contains approximately 7 acres of land. The parcel which is presently . vacant contains a mix of upland and wetland areas. According to 10 the Carver County Soils Survey, the southwestern portion of the property consists of Terril Loam soils which can support road construction. Wetlands on the property occur along the lakeshore and along the northeastern portion of the site. The upland area has been used for agricultural purposes in the past. . Construction of an access on the property appears to be feasible with some disturbance of the wetland area. The wetlands along the shoreline would have to be modified to allow the placement of a boat ramp and some modification of the wetlands along the northeast may be required for turn around construction. The site is large enough to allow for the creation of new wetland areas to replace the disturbed areas as a migitation technique. . Installation of a boat access will require dredging in Lake Lucy. At the present time, the quantity of dredging is impossible to estimate because of the lack of accurate bottom contour information. In general, the northern portion of the lake including Site 0 is shallow requiring excavation at the access and in all probability, a channel from the access to areas of the lake with adequate depth for boating. OTHER OPTIONS One additional option for providing access to Lake Lucy has been has been mentioned in recent years. The option consists of connecting Lake Lucy to Lake Ann via a new channel along the route . 11 . of the existing natural creek. This option has not been seriously investigated but preliminary inquiries have revealed potential major problems. The primary problems are water quality and lake elevations. At the present time, Lake Ann has significantly better water quality than Lake Lucy. Lake Ann has a normal water elevation be\oW approximately 1 foot it.&e'/e Lake Lucy. If the two lakes are connected by a major channel, the flow into Lake Ann may increase adversely affecting the water quality in Lake Ann. Additionally, restrictions on Lake Ann limit boats to electric motors only. It would present operational problems to require boat launching at Lake Ann which p~ohibits gasoline motors as the method of reaching . Lake Lucy on which gasoline motors are presently permitted. RECOMMENDATION In light of the information presented herein, only one option appears viable if the City of Chanhassen elects to install a boat access on Lake Lucy. Site D, the Dirks property, has the highest potential of providing an access site which minimizes the disturbance of wetlands. Additionally, the site is located along Lake Lucy Road which is classified as a collector route. Based on the information available at this time, the site has the ability to accommodate an access that will meet DNR criteria while . satisfying the EPA funding requirements for the Clean Lakes Project. CITY OF CHANHASSEN . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 February 24, 1989 Dear Lake Lucy Area Resident: The Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission will be discussing possible access sites on Lake Lucy at their next meeting. Please feel free to attend to discuss this item. The meeting will be held on Tuesday, February 28, 1989 at 7:30 p.m. Please find the staff report on this issue attached. If you have any questions, please call me at 937-1900. AGENDA PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1989, 7:30 P.M. CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE . 1. Call to Order. 2. Appoint Acting Chairman, Ed Hasek. 3. Approval of February 14, 1989. 4. Public Discussion of 1989 Adult Softball Eligibility Rule. 5. Final Review of Chanhassen Pond Park Master Plan. ~ Review Potential Sites for Lake Lucy Public Access. 7. Review Request for Basketball Court at North Lotus Lake Park. 8. Review Request for Concession Stand at Lake Ann Park, Domo Products. 9. Reconsider Motion to Revise the 1989 Capital Improvement Program. 10. Commission Presentations. 11. Administrative Presentations. . . CITY OF CHAHHASSEH 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: FROM: DATE: SUBJ: Park and Recreation Commission Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator February 23, 1989 Lake Lucy Access The City of Chanhassen has resolved to commit to the Lake Riley Chain of Lakes Clean-up Project. As you know, the City's involvement includes providing access on each of the lakes in the chain. The Park and Recreation Commission held a public hearing last July with Lake Lucy residents to exchange information and ideas on how to provide access on that lake. . Staff had anticipated that this process would have moved much more quickly than what has occurred; however, the grant status has not been certain at the state level and therefore I was hesi- tant to proceed with pursuing access. Currently the sub-state agreement is being executed at the state level and the Watershed's Engineer, Bob Obermeyer, is working on the work plan. The grant has not been given final approval, but it is anticipated such will happen as long as Chanhassen shows progress in the area of access. Mr. Obermeyer has indicated that it is necessary for Lake Lucy to be included in the project as it is the first lake in the chain. The work that will be done on Lake Lucy, specifically, includes fish kills, restocking the lake with game fish, and installing a winter aeration system that will prevent winter kills. The bene- fits of this work to Lake Lucy will be improved water quality, stabilization of the lake bottom and a decrease in algae. The second issue discussed at the public hearing was locating a suitable site for access. The general concensus was that restricting the boat and/or motor size was not desirable, as such would apply to lakeshore owners as well as access users. With this in mind, I asked Mark Koegler to prepare a study of the area which would compare all potential access sites. Attached please find the study which outlines in detail the merits of each possibility. This item is sched~led to not only get the reaction of the Park and Recreation Commission, but of the public as well. If a consensus is reached as to a site to proceed, a recommendation should be sent to the City Council and to the Planning Commission to pursue acquisition. . ***NOTE: Attachments are available at City Hall and copies will be available at Tuesday's meeting. CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JULY 26, 1988 . Chairman Mady called the meeting to order. MEMBERS PRESENT: Carol Watson, Jim Mady, Larry Schroers, Ed Hasek and Curt Robinson. MEMBERS ABSENT: Sue Boyt and Mike Lynch STAFF PRESENT: .Lori Sietsema, Park and Rec Coordinator and Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robinson moved, Schroers seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meetings dated June 28, 1988 and July 12, 1988 as amended. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC INFORMATION GATHERING ON PUBLIC ACCESS TO LAKE LUCY. Sietsema: The history on this item is that the City recently, this last spring, was notified by the Watershed District that the Lake Riley Chain of Lakes was eligible for a clean-up project grant by the Pollution Control Agency. What that is is a million dollar project that the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency will fund 50%. DNR will do almost th. other 50%. It ends up costing our City $8,300.00 and Eden prairie $8,300.00. One of the stipulatjons of getting that grant going and getting the project going is that there has to be public access on all of the lakes involved. The lakes involved are Lake Riley, Lake Susan, Lake Ann and Lake Lucy. We do not have access on Lake Lucy or Lake Susan. Lake Susan we don't anticipate there being a big problem because we have the land on the lake that is the right type of the park for that kind of a use. The topography works for that kind of a use. There's not a neighborhood in the area. It doesn't have a lot of conflict so we don't anticipate that there will be any problems although we will be holding public meetings for that boat access also. The one that we are anticipating some problems just finding a spot on the lake is Lake Lucy. I've met with the Pollution Control Agency, the Watershed District and DNR to find out what exactly are you saying is going to qualify for a boat access. Basically what they say is that it has to be equal to whatever is available to the people that live on the lake and it has to have one car/ trailer parking space for every 20 acres of water surface. So that would mean we need 7 car/trail~r parking spaces. We need a piece of property that can accomodate the access going in, parking spaces for 7 car/trailers and the same type of use so currently there are no restrictions as far as motor size or speed, or very limited speed restrictions. I think it's 40 mph or something. There are currently no restrictions on Lake Lucy so that means that the people using the public access would have to be able to launch a speed boat. If we wanted to deviate from that, we would have to make it equally restricted to the riparian homeowners. That's the only way they will agree. It's not just the DNR that has these reqUirements. ( for a public access, it is also the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency a quite literally the whole million dollar project pivots on this point. T~ey have to have access t~ do the project. The project involves fish kllls, restocking, winter aeration systems, some things that have to do Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 2 . with run-off and different things that are getting into the water. Stopping things, fertilizers and whatever from getting into the water before they get there. Whether that's educating the people that live around the lake or working with farmers or whatever the main culprit is, run-off or whatever. It involves a lot of different things. It's fish traps, fish barriers, a lot of different things all the way down to Lake Riley. They say this project will be very beneficial for Lake Lucy as well as all the .lakes. Lake Ann probably needs the least amount of work but Lake Susan, Lake Riley and Lake Lucy do have some problems that would benefit from this project quite a bit. What we're here for tonight is to basically I think, brainstorm as far as where would be the best place to put an access. It doesn't have to be a paved access. The actual ramp going into the water has to be a concrete slab but it can be gravel with a gravel parking lot. It has to be dry basically and there's so much wetland around. Initially with staff just looking at it, we keep running up against there's so much wetland around the lake. I don't know maybe the people who live around there know the area a little bit better, have been on every piece of property, they know a little bit better than I do but that's basically why we're here tonight is to brainstorm as far as where would be adequate access and where would be suitable. Mady: The other thjng is it has to be feasible. ~ Sietsema: Right. Economically feasible. Robinson: How many acres is Lake Lucy? Sietsema: 134. Robinson: Which 1S 7 parking. Sietsema: 135.2 acres. ~ Mady: Outside of a full access, one of the options would be to make it a quiet lake also which would eliminate all motors on the lake thereby allowing carry-ins and things like we have at Lake Ann. That's also an option available. Really what we're doing here is we'd like to invite public comment. If you'd like, get up and state your name and address and make your comment. I would remind everyone that we do have a sign-up sheet at the back of the Council Chambers here that if you put your name and address down there so we can notify you of any further public meetings being held on this particular item. Mark Sanda: My name is Mark Sanda and my wife Kathy and I live on Stellar Court which is that new development up at the top of the cul-de-sac. Merril Stellar's old property and I guess I came up here to ask if anyone who lives over on utica Lane, the people who currently have power boats on the lake, what their feelings are. Someone just came up with what sounds like an intriguing idea to perhaps suggest eliminating power boats or very small ones to meet the requirements of the State and yet improve the lake. The boats that are out there now really aren't creating a problem as far as our family is concerned.. We can hear them occasionally but we're such a great distance away from the water that it's not a problem. There only Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 3 . seems to be one or two power boats that are ever operating out there and if those people are here, I'm curious what your thoughts are. You seem to be having a lot of fun when you're out there but if it was the type of a situation where you were thinking of selling your boat or something like that, I'm seeing shaking heads. Sorry I brought up the idea but it seemed like an intriguing possibility but I also have to state, if I was in their position and really enjoyed the recreation aspect of the lake, I would not want to go to no power boats but I just thought is circumstances were creating a situition where that might be possible, that might be a nice way to find a solution. . Mady: Are you riparian? Mark Sanda: Yes. Does that mean I live there and I have access? Mady: On the lake. Watson: But you have a lot of distance between you and the lake. Mark Sanda: A tremendous amount, yes. Watson: Can you walk down? Mark Sanda: Only via a trail that was built several years ago. warren. Phillips could give us the history on that. It is partially on my property and Warren's and it's an access down to that island or penninsula, if you will. That's the only way to get down there. I just thought that was a neat idea so I thought I'd suggest that. { Mady: We're really hear to ask opinions. ...no one has corne up with a solution to this thing. I know we have a lot of wetland around a major portion of the lake and the area that we're trying to find, whether it's developed.or not, so we need some ideas and thoughts really. ...this project is going to benefit both our city and the city of Eden Prairie. Jeff Farmakes: I live at 7100 Utica, we live on the lake. I guess I'm a little confused. I called the DNR when this issue carne up and I asked them what they consider access and this is a direct quote, trailerable access which I'm assuming means the concrete block that you're referring to. I'm sure a lot of people that go to Minnetonka or Waconia or Minnewashta, you're familiar with the concrete blocks that they put in at the driveable access. As far as I know a regular 12 foot fishing boat would take the same trailerable access as a, I would guess up to a 20 foot runabout. I guess that size that's trailerable is trailerable and I don't think that you can restrict what size boat goes on there other than by the four, I believe restrictions that they have that go from nothing to 10 to 15 to 25 or so on, whatever horsepower restriction. My question again is, we're talking about carry-in and the restrictions of the residents of the lake. The access issue is based on the assumption that either it's . accessible or it's not. If we just have walk on and we all live with that, how does that constitute access? When they said trailerable access, it has to be trailerable access. I'm confused as to, is the walk on mean that there would still be a ramp there? . . ". ( Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 4 Sietsema: You mean like a carry-in ramp? Jeff Farmakes: Carry-in or whatever. What does that constitute? Does that constitute a canoe? If so, are we talking about concrete ramp going down there? Sietsema: No. .If it were a quiet lake then they would permit, to tell you the truth, I'm not really quite sure what the definition of a walk-in type access is either. ~ Jeff Farmakes: I brought that up to the DNR and they said, first of all not speaking for the PCA, they said as far as they're concerned it would have to be trailerable access to qualify and if that's the case my question is, to qualify this carrier situation because if what we're really talking about here is some sort of restriction situation versus a carry-on because if they don't put a ramp in, it's going to be in there or there's going to be a limitation as to what type of boat based on the size of the ramp. Hasek: A question for you. Would you be in favor of a quiet lake? Jeff Farmakes: I guess I would rather get more information. I think there's an awful lot of information here that we have not been able to assess. I've been trying to call the DNR to find out what some of these classifications are. I would like to one, find out myself what type of improvements further that they're looking at putting in to that particular lake versus the other lakes. Two, if we have restrictions, what restrictions are available. Different classifications, as I understand it are different amounts of motor restrictions and 11m not sure how that would solve the problem. I guess getting back to your original item, I'm not really sure that everybody is really certain, because I'm hearing two different. things as to what constitutes an access to the lake as far as they're concerned, if they're going to be the judge of that. Sietsema: Let me answer. When I met with Martha Reger with the DNR, the PCA was there and the Watershed District, I asked them, now if we have a quiet lake, can we have a walk-in access only. Would that qualify because you carryon anything, if it was a quiet lake, pretty much anyway. She didn't say no, we wouldn't accept that. She sounded like they were very willing to work with us as much as possible because this is a difficult situation. We would have to corne up with a plan and really sell it to them and tell them why anything else is not feasible. Jeff Farmakes: That's something up to negotiations as far as what they consider. Again, his direct response to me was we consider access to be trailerable access which I'm assuming... Sietsema: Right, and again there are very, very, very few times in fact, since the Christmas Lake thing, they will not negotiate much at all but I never say never. They may negotiate in a very difficult situation when you have everything that ian't wetland already developed. They may negotiate. I just don't know but they won't unless we've investigated all Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 5 . "" " other alternatives. Jeff Farmakes: I certainly think that if we're to respond intelligently, we need to better understand from them as to what they would consider access. Sietsema: If you want the clear-cut answer as to what is typically approved and what they stand by in every situation that's possible, they want a trailerable access with the concrete slab. They don't necessarily have to have it paved down to the access but they have the concrete slab going into the water that you can put your duck boat or your fishing boat or your sailboat or whatever, whether it's a quiet lake or not. It doesn't matter. You can take your trailer down there and launch your boat. That's what they want. Jeff Farmakes: Okay, and that's launching 7 parking spots or whatever. Whether it's canoeable or whatever, powerboat or whatever? Sietsema: Right. That's their definition but what I'm saying... '-. Jeff Farmakes: ...more information, just basic information as to what constitutes access. What the restrictions, the various restrictions that we would be considering and where we would be proposing to put this in.~ As you know, the lake as you said, the west side is very steep and ther a lot of wetlands there. The north side again is very steep and a lot 0 wetlands there. The little area that divides Lake Ann and Lake Lucy has no access or roads to it at the moment that I know of. Of course, the east side of the lake is the Greenwood Shores area. I guess I have no objections to that. I would certainly like"to see the lake improved. I'd like to see more information presented as to what they're considering or what the studies or whatever you're doing for the park, so that we can determine at least what we consider to be a good option. Sietsema: I don't really have all of that information. Jeff Farmakes: ...that we can base any sort of thing on. Sietsema: I have some of the information of what they're actually going to do but they're working on their work plan which will identify what exactly is going to take place on each one of the lakes. What, when, how. How much and what it's going to take to do it and that's to be done, completed in November. I thought that we needed to get rolling on at least getting information from the people that live around the area and start looking at our different options as soon as possible if we're going to meet our commitment to the project. I ' "\... Mady: What we're really trying to do here is get some ideas from the residents since you do live in the area, know the lake a lot better than most of us up here. We need to get some information. We need to find o. where it might work and where it might not work and why this and why tha I guess right now we're looking at, is it possible to put in a regular boat ramp. If we find that it's not feasible, then we're going to have to go back to the DNR and peA and say, we can not do this based on these 8, . . . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 6 10, 15 points, whatever and then negotiate down to making it a quiet lake or just a carry-in if that's the only thing available but putting access on Lake Lucy really is the pivoting point on getting all four lakes cleaned up. I know the City of Eden prairie is very, very interested in getting something done on Lake Riley and they have for a number of years and we do need to get something done with Susan and Lucy. Lake Ann to a lesser extent but that's kind of where we're sitting. It's very important we do have some ideas and some thoughts on Lake Susan and have actually tried for grants in the past to put a boat access on Lake Susan so we don't feel that one's going to be quite as tough to do. Lake Lucy, we just don't have a lot of good ideas. Basically it's because of the amount of wetland around there. It's pretty difficult to put a boat access on there. Eric Rivkin: I'm a riparian homeowner on Lake Lucy on the west side. I'm going to try and answer your concerns about why what's going on with the DNR and why the Christmas Lake thing is different than this situation. What the DNR might think about bargining down to a walk-in access opposed to a trailer boat access. I talked to the Christmas Lake Homeowners Association President and I also talked to the person in charge, at the DNR, in charge of getting access to that project because I considered buying a lot on that lake at one time and I wanted to find out what was going on. I found out that because I was inquiring, I was investigating why the lot and all of a sudden I get a call from the Lake Owners Association President saying, pleading with me not to sell the land to the DNR because the DNR sent agents out to buy land secretly to try and get access to Christmas Lake. I found out through the underground that's their way of getting it. The reason for that is, I found out is because there was a lot of public pressure to get access on Christmas Lake and they tried for 30 years to get access on Christmas Lake. They paid dearly for that piece of land that's there. They had a quarter of a million dollar budget to buy whatever it took to get access. I don't think you're going to find a lot of public pressure, and I don't know what kind of pUblic pressure you got to get access to Lake Lucy but this seems to be just to get the benefits to clean it up rather than a lot of neighbors calling and saying, when are we going to get access to Lake Lucy. Did you get any letters saying that? Mady: That's not the problem. Eric Rivkin: I know it's not the problem. I just want to establish fact here. It's not the public pressure that's driving this. Okay, it's from within so I think, and I've gone through a year and a half worth of trivialations and trials with the DNR trying to get a channel dug for my own riparian rights as a homeowner to get access so I know what it's like to deal with the DNR. They will bargin and if presented with the lawful solution that says, we have this piece of property, we have a willing seller, we are the buyer, we can give you the full extent of the law if we have to but we're not pressured by the public to have boat trailerable access. But because it's a quiet lake and because we have, and they told me this when I was in my channel, one of the reasons they said that they could give me access is bec,ause they had a walk-in access to the lake now from what I believe is the other side of the isthmus from Lake Ann. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 7 . There's a little walking path there and I don't know whether it's trespassing or on private property or not but that path has been there for 100 years and people go from the Lake Ann Park, walk around in there and they go to Lake Lucy. All the time and they take their canoes whenever and they do that. There's a picnic table out there and I don't know who put it there, if it's a city picnic table or what but it's used. I don't hear anybody complaining about how come I can't get my boat in at Lake Lucy. They'll simply portage over. Or they'lltake a look at Lake Lucy and see how mucky it is and say heck, I'm not going to go out in that so I don't think you'll have a lot of public pressure but I think if you can find a piece of property, say maybe in the future if we get enough public pressue we can convert it to total trailerable access but for now we think that we can sell the idea to the public that the best benefit to the lake and to the residents is to make it a walk-in access. I think they would be very amenable to that. If you talk to the right people, put together a nice package proposal from the seller, I think they will listen. I know they will and they're people, beaureacrats, they want to listen to all the ideas... Hasek: I have a question for Lori here. Have we ever dealt with them before? r Sietsema: We sure have. On Lake Ann and Lotus Lake and Lake Minnewashte Hasek: The question I would have is, you sound like you've talked to them too a bit, what we're being told is that if we do do that, if we have a walk in access, that whatever can be carried in would have to be the same for the residents on the lake. Eric Rivkin: That's the letter of the law but I think... Hasek: You think that they would deviate on that if we gave them reasons? Sietsema: The difference is, what you're talking about is that in your situation it wasn't asking them to do any work on the lake. They legally, by the legislature, can not work on any lake, they can not do fish kill, they can not do restocking, they can't do barriers. They legally can not do that if there is not free and public access on that lake. Mady: Equal riparian rights is what you're saying. Eric Rivkin: But if you gave them the mechanics of it, they have to get their boats in to help clean up the lake too so you want to at least give them a trailer and boat in so they can help clean the lake up yes but I think after they're gone, you're not going to find too many people that are going to drop a 35 horsepower boat in the lake. Sietsema: No, I don't think so but they have to be able to, the law says that they have to be able to if they want to if the DNR is going to do a. ( work on there. Eric Rivkin: I think you c,ould sell it to the public because it's just the kind of thing that isn't going to get used. Do the minimum. Don't . . . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 8 make it concrete with lots of lavish picnic grounds and all that kind of stuff. Just put it in, here it is. Gravel down and leave the landscape alone as much as possible. Minimum impact. Sietsema: Do you have an idea where we could do that? Eric Rivkin: I thought that, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the City owned a strip all the way around Lake Ann to the creek that goes between the two lakes and to Lake Lucy. I thought that street from Greenwood Shores that goes down to there, there's a sign that says, To Lake Lucy. Isn't that public land? Sietsema: Yes, we do own that. Eric Rivkin: Then you own something that's right on Lake Lucy? Sietsema: Yes we do. Eric Rivkin: Well if you, why not put it there? Sietsema: Number one, staff's point of view is that that's a neighborhood park. It's not designed for community type use. Eric Rivkin: Community? Sietsema: Which a boat access is definitely a community type use. Eric Rivkin: I mean but what community are we talking about here? I don't think you're going to find... Sietsema: You can't assume that nobody's going to use it. Watson: It might be true but you can't assume when you put it in. Eric Rivkin: There's a public road. You put signs up. There are hard to get to public accesses than where this is. Sietsema: I'm just saying that if there's a better alternative, that staff would rather do that than put it through a neighborhood like that. I don't think it's an appropriate use of a neighborhood park. That's my personal professional opinion. Eric Rivkin: We have to make sure that the residents are going to be comfortable with that but I think... Watson: It goes past my house, I'm uncomfortable already. Eric Rivkin: You live in Greenwood Shores? I don't have any other alternatives. All the other land is locked in I guess unless you can get Prince to donate something. The other ideas I had were Merril Stellar had an outlot on the west side of the lake. It was a narrow strip that was for sale and it just sold, Bee if you can buy it back. Offer him something better. He was selling it for $55,000.00. Maybe you could give Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 9 ~ . him a little bit better than what he was asking or something in order to get this. They haven't built anything yet. I don't think there's anything staked. Hasek: How wide of a piece is that? Sietsema: It's a 5.9 acre parcel of which 5.3 is wetland. Eric Rivkin: And it would have been a great public access I think... Hasek: There were some real major problems with design on that piece. Trying to get a road down there. We had to look at that to a certain degree and that would have been our last, last, last choice even if it was the only choice. Eric Rivkin: I think it's...if you can't get a road. Sietsema: You can get access from the street but you can't get access down to the lake. Watson: It's like all that side. Getting between the dry end and the lake through that. Well, you need a channel. Mady: That's going to be a maintenance problem, continuously. Every y~ that's going to be dredged out. Sietsema: In a brainstorming situation we're not throwing it out. definitely not not an option. It's Eric Rivkin: The only clean lakeshore that I can see that's available is at the other lake. All the rest is real weedy and mucky. You're going to need this big maintenance that you're talking about. That's the only clean pla~e that I know of on the lake. At one time there was the island, somebody owned the island and considered giving it to the City at one time as a park but I can't see a road going down there and having cars go in there. I think it would just destroy the wildlife aspect of the lake if more cars go by. Hasek: That would be a tough design too because that island is pretty much under water. Eric Rivkin: I think if it was a park and walk in type of thing, if it would have been park at the street and walk down, it's kind of a nice little walk-in park but to meet the DNR's requirements, that's not exactly, you can't park a trailer. Mady: They have gone up in Detroit Lakes and they're using some type of boat moving device that actually lifts the boat up on a track and moves it f down. Again, that's very expensive... . Eric Rivkin: That's probably a well wanted lake by the public in order to justify something like that... . '- . " ......' ~ Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 10 Sietsema: What will be done in each area and when. What the time line is and what exactly will be done. I know that they're talking about fish kills, fish restocking, aeration and fish barriers on Lake Lucy. Eric Rivkin: Did you talk to the Corps of Engineers? Lake Lucy is a designated head waters? The federal government requires you file applications and all kinds of stuff as far as doing any alteration. As far as doing anything to the wetland, my position is that dredging anything out. A wetland does act as a filter for pollutants and I tell you... Warren Phillips: There's no real authority on how much wetland there should be. That's what is kind of a point of debate. Eric Rivkin: unnatural. I heard it was man made. Man induced it because...it was Watson: Do you have any ideas where an access could go on Lake L~cy? I'm talking available property. Warren Phillip: If you bought the Dodd property, I'm sure you'd have access to the lake. There's a road that goes there, a right-of-way that goes there and my property borders that easement all the way for that strip of property and I wouldn't object to access there. If it were properly done and I felt that we had adequate compensation in terms of improvements to the lake but just for improving fishing, that doesn't interest me because all that's going to do is serve the fishermen to come in. It's not really helping Chanhassen or the residents around the lake. Mady: One of the things with a fish kill is you get rid of the carp and the bullheads and they are bottom type fish that continues to turn up the bottom and by getting rid of those fish you... Warren Phillip: I don't like the whole process of changing. ...maybe you should be asking a little bit more than just improving the fishing. Robinson: Maybe what you could do is, we don't know what that means and if we could get some input from you in writing, this is the first shot at it. We don't know what those improvements should be but I think the idea is good so maybe if you could give Lori some ideas of what you'd like to see because I think it is a negotiable thing with them. Warren Phillip: I would certainly think it would be. I guess we all observed the Christmas Lake situation and they were pressed into a corner. Schroers: Christmas Lake is a negotiated situation also because it restricted horsepower only for a certain length of time and just to kind of establish the fact that all the big boats aren't going to be running over there right away and people are just going to get used to using it more as a limited quiet area and they're hoping to deter some of the big boat traffic. Then after 5:00 they open it up. Watson: There's enough big boats on the lake over there. ~ f" \ ~ ( Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 11 . Schroers: I personally have been involved with lake restoration. I did some of the physical work cleaning out the bottom of a lake in Bloomington. That has had many positive effects. It is a quiet lake. Electric motors only. The fishing has greatly improved. The water quality has improved. People are enjoying it again a lot more. It doesn't smell like it used to. There are a lot of benefits. Personally the size of Lake Lucy makes me feel, I wouldn't want to see more speed boats running around here. Even if the lake gets cleaned up and fixed up, letting a bunch of big boats...I think would have an adverse affect on quality of the lake and the water. It constantly stirs up the water, cuts the weeds. You've got weeds coming into shore all the time. I wonder if we couldn't try to negotiate with the DNR using the access on Lake Ann and just making a quiet access type area through the creek into Lake Lucy thereby saving most of the wildlife and the natural area that is around the lake and not having to cut a new trail, a new road and a new access in. Sietsema: I know that the only way the DNR would buy into that, and they probably would buy into a portage type access, they may, would be if it was a quiet lake for everybody. They won't go with the Christmas Lake type situation even for a certain amount of time because legally they can not. Christmas Lake was the last time. Legally the law states that the. can not discriminate. Schroers: I understand that and I guess that ~hat's my opinion is that because of the size of the lake and because of the way that it's being used right now, there are just a couple boats on it and I know that it would be too bad for those people to lose their privilege of being able to operate a boat on there but I think if you weigh and balance the situation, I personally would rather see a quiet lake than open it up and make it so anyone who wanted to could down there. You could have fast boats, 150 horsepower and boy, I'd hate to see that. We have too few precious natural areas left and if we open up a small lake like this one limiting horsepower, there are people that just...and are just going to be over using and abusing the lake. Jeff Farmakes: I talked with the DNR...as I understand it, there's a lake level difference between the two lakes. His response to that was that if Lake Lucy had a...and you might want to lower it a little, that lake or you would have to raise Lake Ann. He said he'd have to study whether or not by opening that up you'd change the water quality being that there's more quiet problem in Lake Lucy. They're also just raising the level of the lake impacts the water quality. It has to be studied. He was talking about spillover where the creek runs out of the southwest corner of Lake Ann. That if you raise that up, somebody mentioned the fact that there was a half a foot difference between the two levels of the lake so we would have to raise Lake Ann up 6 inches without lowering the level by opening up that area. Right now that creek on an average wet . year, between the two lakes, goes dry about the 30th of July. Then once the rains pick up again, a couple months later, it usually is a depth of about 6 inches or less so ix isn't a very accurate creek. He said that you would have to be able to get a boat through there. A fishing boat he . . . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 12 said so he said to prevent the fish kill, by having a creek through there to a depth of 8 feet, dredging that out, I suppose it would be similiar to what's at Minnetonka where he's getting back some of those small shallow bays that they have where they've lined the edge with stones and have a small accessway. He said 8 feet would help the fish kill issue. On Lake Lucy 2 years ago we had a fairly significant fish kill and there are the same game fish in Lake Lucy as there are in Minnetonka. The walleyes and you get bass in there. I know because they're dead up on my shore. r live on the corner, down where the wind blows, the southeast corner, and we were talking a little bit earlier about dredging out some of the wetlands. I've gotten rid of some of those wetlands permanently and I got rid of it by, there was a lot to get rid of, 50 by 90 feet. We brought in a boom to scoop that out. It cost me $1,500.00 so when you start talking about getting rid of some of these wetlands, you're talking about some mega dollars. Big dollars and a boom will only go out 100 feet so you've got a real significant dredging operation here considering going beyond that. It would seem to me that that can be investigated on how the water quality will be affected from Lake Lucy to Lake Ann and based on...in Lake Ann Park, if that would be perhaps beneficial if there wasn't a problem. Also, would it control the level of the lake. Spillover or maintenance situation in case we get another big storm or whatever and the lakes flood. Last year during July, that superstorm, there was quite a rapids going through the two lakes. Certainly we want somebody to be able to respond to that as far as being a homeowner on the lake. The east side is much gradually sloped to the lake and by raising or lowering the level of the lakes affects people's property situation. Also, the last issue that I'd like to cover for some of the people who don't live on the lake or do not have lake access there, many of these people have been paying a premium on their taxes for their homes for many years. They pay an additional amount based on square footage along the lake and of course, over a period of years people get used to using a facility and I don't personally have a power boat on the lake but I can understand someone who does who's been there for many years and I guess my feeling is I would support them in objecting to restricting them without their consent, even though there may be a few. I would rather see something like that where there would be a restriction basically on Lake Ann where you put your boat in and they would have to troll across to get to that canal, if there was one there, and I think that would be, probably keep out most of the people on a big runabout. Basically that means people who use the land, if you go primarily with a canoe or small fishing boat with an electric motor, who drug their boats across the area and I don't think that will really significantly change anything. I asked the person at the DNR, would that mean anything. Because of the canal and the access on Lake Ann, would that be a need to have to take some certain restrictions and his response was no, it would not because you would also have the same restrictions if you wanted to go on Lake Ann. So that would be a buffer in keeping out those, or at least keeping out those kinds of boats that I think we... That's something to consider. I think if you look into that, found somebody who was knowledgeable and launch a boat...that could be a significant solution to the problem. Hasek: That's something that originally when this first came up that we talked about. I think the original opinion was we didn't want to see the Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 13 " . lakes opened in that spot because of the quality in one would detrimentally impact the quality of the other. Perhaps they can be and you're right, there are questions that have to be asked and that's what we're doing. We're trying to gather questions to take and gather our wits about us and go down and talk to them as intelligently as we possibly can. It seems to me like rather than...Lake Ann which it sounds to me that what they're suggesting is why not raise Lake Ann 3 inches and lower Lake Lucy 3 inches and compromise. Well, two you've got the volume of water. The other option is to simply use Lake Ann as the level. Once you connect it to and lower the one to 6 inches. It doesn't mean that we have to keep the level of Lake Lucy up necessarily so there are other things to be considered in that one. Jeff Farmakes: I think it was down, who's responsibility...there was already quite a problem in the lake by lowering the level of the lake you will have caused a problem. Hasek: But the question is, how significant. Jeff Farmakes: Someone would have, who was thing, would have to go and do some sort of my problem was that if you have that buffer the problems of the useage issue because... knowledgeable in that sort of study on that issue. I guess in Lake Ann, you would solve . .,- Hasek: That would be very nice if it would work. I think that might be. very workable solution if it would work. Again, it's a question that has to be asked. Mady: I have a question, on Lake Lucy right now, I believe there's a private access right off of your dock. Jeff Farmakes: It's I believe a fire alley that was put in at the time of sewer and.water. Hasek: Is that city land? Jeff Farmakes: No, I believe it's an easement. You have to remember that sewer and water didn't come in until about 10 years ago or something. Warren Phillip: You put $5,000.00 into that a few years ago when it was a fire lane? You put a lot of money into that acquisition. Jeff Farmakes: I think it was an easement. Sietsema: But I don't think the City maintains that little gravel... Mady: The question I was getting at, if we go as Jeff is suggesting, we have a problem having riparian owners being able to utilize that private property and I just...DNR is coming. . ( Sietsema: They're very aware of that access there and her initial response to me was, whatev~r type of access the lakeshore homeowners have, we have to provide for the public. I don't know what implications that . . . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 14 has. I did check into, initially quite extensively into the channel idea. In fact we were considering getting a LAWCON grant for it last year. hydrologists at DNR informed me that there's a foot difference between the two lakes and that if we opened it up and just dredged it through, we would literally probably drain Lake Lucy. Even if we could control it so we didn't, if we raise the level of Lake Ann, we have to get easements from the current owners. The City owns the majority of the lakeshore property around Lake Ann but Prince owns part of it and also Gorra, I think is his name so we would have to obtain easements from them. I'm just telling you what I found out. I don't know that that's impossible or anything but the hydrologists had some major problems with the canal idea. Schroers: You mentioned earlier something about a portage. That would be my first attempt. I would try to negotiate a deal with them because if you had that portage area as an area where you would walk, portage your canoe or drag your boat or whatever across land and then put it into Lake Lucy rather than, I would personally rather see that than dredging for an access or anything else because I think it would impact the least envirornmental impact on the area. Mady: How many boats are on the lake right now? Jeff Farmakes: There's 25 boats tnere. Mady: Well, boats that had to be trailered in. Couldn't be carried. Jeff Farmakes: I think there's 3 or 4 fishing boats. Mady: A 14 footer you can actually drag into if you want to. It would be a tough sell to tell someone who has riparian rights and has their boat on the lake that they can't do that anymore. Schroers: Yes, I understand that. Jeff Farmakes: Is there any precedent for a grandfather clause for something like this where the current owners... Mady: No, they won't let us do at Lotus. We talked about trying to do that at Lotus so we could try to restrict the lake a little bit. If you have anybody on the lake, they have to have the. same rights, the other boaters have to have the same rights. Schroers: You could make...time limit that they've done on Christmas Lake. Mady: I've talked to a couple of people on that Christmas Lake issue. I don't think there's a legislature in the State who's going to go for that package. Jeff Farmakes: I understand how the level...to the other lake and it really dried up for about a month and a half, ...so I'm just questioning the difference. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 15 . Sietsema: it myself. I don't know Jeff. I don't know how to go out there and check They came out and looked at it. Jeff Farmakes: I understand...that Lake Lucy is the head waters that if your water does vary a lot, that based on what I've seen in the last 6 to 7 years, that water if it does move, moves awfully slow. Hasek: They generally talk about a normal ordinary water level which is based on, you're got normal ordinary, high, flood level, there's a ton of different numbers that they talk about. Lake level which is established must have been the normal ordinary water mark. Hoffman: 956.1. Warren Phillip: Why don't we give the City Engineer to go out with this transit and shoot the limits? Hasek: This would be a real tough year In which to judge because the normal ordinary level is... Warren Phillip: But they've both got to have the same aquafir and I'm sure the land through there is only about 50 foot wide. It probably is. sinking pretty much... Jeff Farmakes: ...6 inches but what I'm saying is, if you have to raise the water, you're talking about an easement and you're talking about how much of our property would be flooded in the low lying areas and it seems to me the only low lying area is in the southwest corner where it is now wetlands where the creek comes out so ask if it will make any difference. I know certainly Prince is interested in getting rid of that land or developing it. What he has fenced off now goes much more towards the road up there.. I assume he's not interetsed in developing at this point so I'm saying if he loses a foot of lakeshore by low lying flooding or whatever. As I recall, most of the land, except for that low corner has quite a drop too. 2 or 3 feet. Mady: We also have a problem, we have at Lake Ann probably one of the nicest beaches in the southwestern part of the metropolitan area. By raising the level of the lake considerably, that beach... Sietsema: I'll ask Barbara again and go out and meet with her. She's the hydrologists, the State's hydrologist for this area and she was the one that told me there was a foot difference and she could tell me what kind of impacts that would have so I can check that out in more detail with her. ( Mady: I think what we need to do right now is more information or ideas on how the process to, since you're in the public hearing for now, get . some of the answers and some more information and come back maybe a mont from now and hopefully go talk to your neighbors and thinking about this item as to how can we do thJs. What makes the most sense. Dollars sense. Ecology wise. Everything. None of his here have a great answer right now . . . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 16 so we need to all think about it and hopefully in a month from now you'll have some more information, some answers to some of these questions and we'll call you forward again. A reminder, if you haven't signed the sheet in the back, please do so because that's the way you maintain and get more information about this. I'm not sure we'll be making another general mailing to everybody in the area. We do try to get our agenda published in the paper prior to each meeting but that doesn't always happen. Schroers: We haven't really heard from anyone who has a power boat on the lake. Is there someone who owns a boat on the lake and would like to keep a large power boat? Resident: We have one and we'd like to keep it. Schroers: How do you feel about letting 7 other large boats corne onto the lake? Resident: I wouldn't mind. The lake is so small. Schroers: That's exactly what the problem 1S going to be. Dale Carlson: I've lived on Lake Lucy for 16 years and we've had a power boat there for a long time and really enjoyed the lake. Our kids have learned to water ski on that lake and they got busy and I would venture to say, first of all, I think most of the, at least the folks that I know that live on the east side of Lake Lucy are and will continue to be concerned about that lake. We have done lots of things with our pocket money to try to keep tnat lake nice. Years ago we had to get permits from the DNR for spraying. Our kids by the way won't swim in the lake anymore. They're about 16 or 17 years old, they go to Lake Ann. I also think you will find that even with public access to that lake, somebody will put a power boat on there once and then probably go someplace else because, I don't know where we corne up with 135 acres on that lake but I've been around it and I walked around it in the muck up to my waist and you're probably talking about maybe 40 acres of accessible water compared to 135 acres of the lake. That may look like that on a piece of paper. That's probably the high, what they were referring to as the high water mark. I don't know what that means. If that's used for utilities or what. Schroers: That probably means at the highest point that the water has ever been on the shore of the lake. Dale Carlson: I think that most of the folks that live on that lake will agree with me is, what are we getting for a million dollars. I know that a million dollars isn't all going into Lake Lucy and I don't think a million dollars would be enough to do it to Lake Lucy, maybe necessarily what some of us would like to see done to it. We certainly want to see the lake stay there and like you say, a lot of people use it. But what are we going to get for this money? Those of us who have lived there and those of us who have boats on there, I don't know necessarily if the fact that we have a boat on that lake is of major importance here. I think it's what's going to be done to the lake. What are we going to give up as property owners? As people who have lived on that lake now for many, many Park and Recreation Commission Meeting July 26, 1988 - Page 17 ....... . years, what are we going to give up and what are we going to get back and what our's community going to get back? If there's a million doll~rs to shell out here, wherever all this money is coming from, and there's four lakes involved. For example, if Lake Lucy is going to be quiet, does that mean all the lakes in Chanhassen are quiet? But then if not, why is Lucy or is it because it's small or what is it? What's the logic? Mady: It has to be, you can't discriminate between riparian owners and the general public. Dale Carlson: Then why include Lake Lucy in the project? Sietsema: It's part of the chain of lakes. Mady:. Lake Lucy, Lake Susan, Riley and Ann. Dale Carlson: But again, what are we going to get out of it? Of the million dollars is going to go to Lucy, to Ann, to Susan and I think you're asking us to make recommendations here. The City owns property. Put access on the city owned property and there's certainly nothing we can do about that and the City can decide to do that. At this point in time it's too hard for me to make a decision or vote on anything not knowing what we're going to get. I heard the statements read and that's a lot o~ greek, what we're going to get out of it. ~ Mady: At this point, I'd like to, we do have a full agenda yet, I'll ask for a motion to adjourn the public hearing and call them back. Watson moved, Robinson seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Mady: I'm sure we'll have another public hearing and if you signed the sheet in the back you will be notified as to that prior to the meeting. I hope you would think some more about it. Look at the whole lake, if you live around it, and try to figure out a plan on how we can make this. We need some information. The Council has already dedicated the City to doing the project. RECOMMENDATION SUPPORTING PARK MAINTENANCE 1989 BUDGET ITEMS. (A tape break occurred in the meeting at this point.) Watson: ...one additional person in the downtown. I kind of chuckled with all these trees, I asked Dale, now where's the 3 inch mower you're going to use when you get down there on those little islands and I said, hey, how about... Unless it's maintenance free, that is really going to. be a pain. ( Hasek: I have two comments. on that myself and they'll be really brief. Number one, I think that that whole idea is way over planted down there. . . . Park and Recreation Commission April 1, 1988 Page 2 and agreements to operate, maintain and repair aerators and fish barriers. The first phase of the project is to develop a Work Plan which is expected to cost $50,000 over the period of April through Sep- tember, 1988. The costs of the work plan are grant-eligible and will be shared 50:50 by the US-EPA and the "local" project spon- sors. The RPBCWD is requesting that the cities of Chanhassen and Eden prairie consider joining the RPBCWD as "local" project co- ~ponsors for the purpose of preparing the Work Plan for the Lake Riley Chain of Lakes Improvement Project. Equally divided be- tween Cities and the District, this will amount to $8333 per agency. Attached please find a description of Lake Riley Chain of Lakes Improvement Project. Staff sees this as an important project for the City of Chanhassen and a tremendous opportunity to improve the water and fishing quality on our lakes. For this project to be implemented, it is imperative to obtain public access on Lakes Lucy and Susan, as access exists on Lakes Ann and Riley. It is the recommendation of this office to approve the expenditure of $8333 for the preparation of the Work Plan and to pursue public access on Lake Lucy and Lake Susan. ..;. ", ". -: t..i.. "" TO: FROM: ,. ----..... ~~~~~~~~ REGION Vi . fiSHERIES Minnesota Pollution Control Agency \, January 12, 1987 ~- Mr. Bob Obermeyer~ ~ley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District Mr. Fred Richards, Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District Ms. Jo Ann Olsen, City of Chanhassen Mr. Bob Lambert, City of Eden Prairie Mr. Stan Wendland, Soil Conservation Service, Carver County Mr. Patrick Kennedy. Hennepin Co. Soil & Water Conservation District Mr. Duane Shodeen, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Mr. Marcel Joseau, Metropolitan Council Mr. Mark Nelsop, Minnesota Soil and Water Conservation Board Mr. Jon DeGroot, Soil Conservation Service Mr. Harvey Sundmacker, Soil Conservation Service Mr. Don Roberts, ~. Environmental Protection Agency Patrick J. MUllOy(;I/h^~ ^ Program Developme;t'J:c~~n, Division of Water Quality SUBJECT: DESCRIPTION OF THE RILEY CREEK CHAIN OF LAKES PROJECT . A draft of the Riley Creek Chain of Lakes Project Description is enclosed for your revie~. The draft describes the project history and funding; nonpoint source pollution; U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Minnesota Pollution Control Agency (MPCA) expectations; perceived roles and responsibilities of the ~atershed district, cities, soil and ~ater conservation districts (SWCDs),and other agenciesj and possible means of completing the project. A draft substate agreement and a copy of EPA regulations regarding the Clean Lake Program (CLP) and the CLP Grant Application have been included with the description to provide additional information regarding the project. The project description will be formally presented to the Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District Board of Managers, city councils of Chanhassen and Eden Prairie, and the supervisors of the Carver and Hennepin SWCDs follo~ing revie~ by the local, state, and federal agency staff who will be involved in the project. Please review this draft and provide comments by January 23, 1987. Suggestions regarding the roles and responsibilities of the agencies involved are especially requested. The list presented in the project description is intended to be preliminary and may not include all roles and responsibilities of each organization. Input from each unit of government is necessary to make the list complete. If you have any ques~ions, please contact Greg Johnson at 296-7237. PJM:njm Enclosure { . Phone: 520 Lafayette Road North, St. Paul, Minnesota 55155 Regional Offices · Duluth/Brainerd/Detroit Lakes/Marshall/Rochester Equal Opportunity Employer . . . RILEY CREEK CHAIN OF LAKES PROJECT The Riley Creek Chain of Lakes Project will implement a new lake protection and restoration strategy developed by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency (MPCA) and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to improve and protect the water quality of the lakes in the Riley Creek watershed. The new strategy recognizes that it makes little sense to spend public funds to address water quality problems within a lake without taking steps to correct the problems at their sources through watershed management. In the past. the success of EPA Clean Lakes Program (CLP) projects was sometimes limited. because the projects often dealt only with the in-lake symptoms rather than the sources of the problems. MPCA and EPA experience with the CLP projects spanning ten years has demonstrated that watershed management must be combined with in-lake restoration measures to ensure extended lake restoration and protection. Several questions and answers are presented below to help describe the project. Hopefully, the answers to the questions will help explain the scope of the project. 1) Why was the project established? The project has been established to address the water quality problems identified by Chapter 208 planning efforts and diagnostic-feasibility studies of Lake ~iley completed by the Metropolitan Council and Barr Engineering Company. Water quality problems in the area lakes include algal blooms. excessive growth of aquatic vegetation. fish kills. rough -2- "" fish. and sedimentation. One of the primary goals of the project is to provide increased fishing and swimming opportunities in the lakes through improvements in the lakes' water quality. 2) How was project funding obtained? -- The Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District (RPBCWD) authorized Barr Engineering Company to prepare an application for Phase II CLP funding to be used in addressing the water quality problems in the Riley Creek Chain of Lakes. The applica~ion built on the results of a Phase I Diagnostic-Feasibility study completed by the Metropolitan Council in 1983 and data collected by the RPBCWD between 1974 and 1984. The final report for the Metropolitan Council study was titled a "Diagnostic-Feasibility Study of Seven Metropolitan Area Lakes". A second report titled. "Lake Riley Diagnostic Study Prepared for City of Chanhassen. City of Eden Prairie. and the Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District." was prepared by Barr Engineering Company in 1985. This report combined the results of the Metropolitan Council study and data collected by the watershed district. The CLP grant was awarded to the MPCA for use in the Riley Creek ~atershed contingent upon the inclusion of nonpoint source (NPS) pollution controls in addition to in-lake restoration techniques in the project. In addition to dealing with specific water quality problems in the watershed. the project will be used as a demonstration project in the development qf a state program for controlling NPS pollution in urbanizing areas. r . . . . . . . -3- 3) ~~at is nonpoint source pollution? Nonpoint sources of pollution are defined as land management or land use activities that contribute to pollution as a result of runoff, seepage, or percolation, but ere not discharged from specific sites such as municipal and industrial wastewater outlets (point source pollution). Nonpoint sources of pollution are the major reason that a number of Minnesota .surface and ground waters are not clean enough to support desired uses ranging from drinking water to fishing. Nationally. estimates of damages caused by NPS pollutiorr range from $3 to $12 billion annually. Major sources of NPS pollution include: agricultural runoff; pesticide and fertilizer use; feedlot runoff; urban runoff from streets. yards. and construction sites; leachate from septic systems; highway de-icing chemicals; dredging and drainage activities; and impacts from the loss of wetlands. The MPCA and EPA are especially concerned about the potential impacts of development and resulting changes in runoff to the water quality of the Riley Creek Chain of Lakes. 4) What is a demonstration project? A demonstration project is a project designed to develop and demonstrate administrative and technical solutions to water quality/land use management problems. The MPCA is currently coordinating two projects in areas which are primarily agricultural land. The Riley Creek project will provide experience in an urbanizing area. The experience gained in these projects will be used as a guide in the development of a state NPS program. The -4- MPCA recognizes that this is a new program. so there are no hard and fast rules regulating how projects must be implemented. New. innovative ideas for dealing with water quality problems will be encouraged in each of the projects. . ~ 5) What are the components of a successful project? ~ Although this project is part of a new program direction. the project can draw on the experience gained by the EPA and MPCA over the past ten years in addressing water qu&lity problems through the construction grants and lake restoration programs. Keys to the success of a water quality project include local government interest and support. development of specific goals and objectives. comprehensive watershed management. an information and education program. public input and support. and good interagency coordination. . 6) What do the EPA and MPCA expect? f The EPA and MPCA expect that the watershed district and other local units of government will take steps to ensure that development in the watershed is undertaken in a manner that does not contribute to the degradation of the Riley Creek Chain of Lakes. Alternatives which may be used to address this issue include voluntary and mandatory controls. cost-share programs for the installation of best management practices. land use planning and zoning. and local ordinances. Local needs and resources will playa role in determining which strategies are most effective. . . . . -5- 7) ~~at other agencies or organizations are involved? Several local, state, and federal agencies have responsibilities for the management of Minnesota's water resources. In addition to the watershed district, EPA, and MPCA, other agencies which will be involved in this project include the City of Chanhassen, City of Eden Prairie, Carver and Hennepin Soil and Water Conservation Districts (SWCD) , Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) , Minnesota Soil and Water Conservation Board (SWCB), Metropolitan Council, and Soil Conservation Service (SCS). 8) ~~at are the roles and responsibilities of the agencies involved in the project? U.S. Environmental Protection Agency - The EPA is the primary funding source for the project. It also has final approval of the work products in the project. Minnesota Pollution Control Agency - The MPCA is the Clean Lakes Program grant recipient. The agency is responsible for grant administration and management, project review and approval, and interagency coordination. MPCA will provide technical, planning, and regulatory assistance as needed. -6- ~ Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District - The RPBCWD is the subgrantee for the CLP grant. The watershed district will be "responsible for project administration. management. implementation. and local coordination. The RPBCWD has watershed planning and regulatory authority. It is also responsible for providing some of the local and state share of the project budget. Cities of Chanhassen and Eden Prairie - The two cities have local planning. zoning. and regulatory authority. They may be responsible for some local share of the project budget. ~ Minnesota Department of Natural Resources - The DNR will be responsible for fisheries management and rehabilitation in the watershed's lakes. They will also provide state matching funds for the CLP grant and technical assistance. Minnesota Soil and Water Conservation Board - The SWCB will provide technical assistance and state matching funds for the CLP grant. The state matching funds will be available through the SWCB state cost-share program. ( . . . . . . -7- Hennepin and Carver Soil and Water Conservation Districts - The SWCDs will be responsible for KPS planning, critical area identification, best management practices implementation. They will also provide technical assistance and local match to the CLP grant, primarily through the contribution of in-kind services. Metropolitan Council - The Metropolitan Council has regional planning authority. They may provide technical and monitoring assistance. 9) What lake restoration/protection measures are available for use in this project? To effectively address the water quality problems in the watershed, a number of restoration/protection measures will probably need to be implemented. These measures are composed of two types of activities. The first type includes in-lake restoration techniques such as fish barriers, biomanipulation, hypolimnetic aeration, and chemical treatment of bottom sediments. The second type includes watershed management measures such as use of best management practices on agricultural and construction sites, sedimentation basins, land use planning and zoning, and local ordinances regulating stormwater runoff. In addition to in-lake restoration techniques and watershed management, information/education, monitoring, and project evaluation programs will be needed in the project. -8- 10) ~~at does the local and state share of the project costs involve? . ~ ~ The CLP grant was awarded to the MPCA in the amount of $563,886. EPA regulations require that this grant be matched by local and state funds, so that the total allowable project cost is $1,127,772. The MPCA has budgeted $80,326 for the development of an urban best management practices handbook and a computer model to help identify critical areas in urban areas. An additional $112,186 is required for NPS program administration and MPCA administrative costs. The remaining $935,260 will be used directly in the Riley Creek project. Of this amount, $467,630 must be provided by local or state sources. A large amount of this share may be contributed by the Dh~ if they can budget money for the fisheries management and rehabilitation programs in the project. The local and state share of the project funds may be in the form of hard cash or in-kind services provided by the RPBC~~, the two cities, the two SWCDs, and the S~CB. . 11) How might the project work? ( As stated above, the local units of government in the project area will be important in making the project successful. Ideally, one or more local unites) of government would have been involved in the project right from the beginning; however, restrictions for CLP funding did not allow the time to generate the local interest and support for developing a water quality management projec.t in thE watershed. A number of options exist for incorporating the involvement of the local units of government into the project.. To be successful, a local government unit must be willing to lead the project and coordinate the activities of the other agencies involved in . . . . -9- the project. Agencies which could lead the project include the Ri1ey-Purgatory-B1uff Creek ~atershed District, Cities of Chanhassen and Eden Prairie, Carver and Hennepin S~CDs, or a combination of the above. The RPBCWD seems to be the most appropriate lead agency; however, the participation of the other groups is no less important. Experience in two other demonstration projects has indicated that one person should be responsible for the daily coordination and management of the project. A . . number of alternatives for providing this leadership were discussed by technical staff who will be involved in the project. The alternatives include the hiring of a project coordinator by the RPBCWD or a joint powers group formed by the local units of government; use of a staff person from the cities or SWCDs; and use of Barr Engineering Company personnel. To ensure good cooperation and coordination between the various units of government, a steering or technical advisory committee may be desirable. The structure of such a committee could include representatives of the RPBC~~ board of managers, city councils, and SWCD supervisors, or staff of each. A technical committee may also include representatives of the state and federal agencies involved in the project. It is important that the authority of such a committee be carefully outlined to minimize organizational problems. 12) What must be done? The MPCA is open to suggestions from the watershed district and other local units of government regarding an immediate strategy for getting the project off the ground; however, MPCA staff feel that the following steps are important in starting the project: ~ - -10- 1) . The RPBC~u should direct Barr Engineering to take actions for initiating the project. 2) A Substate Agreement outlining fiscal, planning, and implementation responsibilities should be drafted between the MPCA and the RPBC~~. 3) The RPBCWD or other local unit of government should develop and implement a plan for project coordination as soon as possible. 4) The organizational structure needed to implement the project should be outlined. Appropriate work agreements between the project participants should be drafted. . 5) Development of a work plan should be begun to identify a plan of action for completing the project. A work plan should include a description of the project's history and background, goals and objectives; data needs; project management; project organization and agency responsibilities; implementation strategies; interagency work agreements; budget; and project schedule. If the information is not available at this time, the work plan should identify how and when it will be developed. Enclosures: Draft Substate Agreement U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Regulations Clean Lakes Program Grant Application F . :'011< 8 ~. ... . " :t . S TAT E 0 F . '.. ~~~~(Q)IY~ ~ DEPARTMENT HETRO . PHONE: ~lil2-L.2~6.::.2 959 "': OF NATURAL RESOURCES REGION HEADQUART2RS File No. April 25, 1983 Riley-Purgatory Creek Watershed District 8950 County Road 4 . . _ Eden Prairie, Minnesota 55343 .a . ~ . - " ... ." De'ar Sir: ." I would like to take time to present a cooperative pr0posal for the intensive fisheries management of severai lakes in Chanhassen and Eden Prairie. '..t.. ....f . The Riley Creek watershed offers a unique opportunity for intensive fisheries management in the Metro Region. There are five major water bodies involved in this watershed: Lucy Lake, Ann Lake, Suzan Lake, Rice Harsh Lake and Riley Lake. Riley is. the only lake that does not winterkill periodically. Generally, periodic winterkills tend to favor the development of large populations of rough fish such ~s carp and bullheads. These species are enhanced due to their ability to survive lower winter oxygen levels th~~ most of our game species~ Carp and bullheads are also extremely prolific spa\vners, and are able to develope large populations in these relatively shallow fertile lakes in a short period of time. This usually cre&"tes situations of poor angling due to low game- fish populations and other related problems such as poor water clarity, little rooted plant growth, and often an in- creased tendency for futher winterkill problems. Until development of systems capable of preventing winterkill, the fisheries management of such. lakes was hampered. Since the early 1970's there have been great strides in the develope- ment of aeration systems to prevent winterkill. In 1974 only one lake in tpe Metro Region was protected with an aeration device. In the winter of 1982-83 twenty six'(26) lakes had aeration devices.' Currently there are a number. of marketed . systems which have proven effective. AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER ,{;\ I . I Aprii 25, 1983 Page Two ~ . Lucy, Ann and Suzan intensive fisheries systems. Intensive lakes would require Lakes have significant potential for management including the use of aeration fisheries management of these three the following activities: 1. Isolation of the lakes to prevent migration of undesirable fish species. This would be done through installation of proven fish barriers of the type known as high velocity culverts. 2. Adequate free public access. Guidelines call for boat accesses with a ramp, and parking places for 1 car/trailer combination for each 20 surface acres of water. , 3. Installation of winter aeration devices. For . the three lakes involved, it may be possible . to use only 2 devices; one on Suzan Lake and one on Ann Lake with a deepening of the channel connection between Lucy and Ann Lakes to allow fish movement from Lucy to Ann in the winter. ~ 4. Chemical rehabilitation of the lakes utilizing a fish toxicant followed by restocking of game- fish species. . Rice Marsh Lake does not offer the opportunity for intensive fisheries management that the other lakes do. It's best potential is as a waterfowl lake. However, it must be con- sidered in the whole watershed plan since it may harbor, at least seasonally, undesirable fish populqtions. To conduct the whole watershed project it would be necessary to che@ically treat the lake and isolate it from Riley Lake as well. Riley Lake is a permanent fish lake (i.e. no winterkill) currently b~ing managed as such at this time. An adequate access is present. Management plans currently include the purchase and developement of a fish barrier on Riley Creek between Riley Lake and the Minnesota River. Carp populations in Riley Lake are probably strongly influenced by Rice Marsh Lake which acts as a spawning and nursery area. In the intensive management plan for Riley Lake, isolation by fish barriers on Riley Creek downstream of the lake and On the creek between Rice Marsh Lake and Riley Lake are contemplated. With chemical rehabilitation, the entire watershed could be rid of carp. ~ ( . April. 25, 1983 Page Three . The intensive fisheries management of the Riley Creek water- shed is both complicated and relatively expensive. The total project would involve: 1. A maximum of three fish barriers: a. downstream of Riley Lake. b. between Riley Lake and Rice Marsh Lake. c. between Suzan and Ann Lakes. 2. Provision for adequate public access on three lakes: a. Lucy Lake b. Ann Lake c. Suzan Lake 3. Installation of two (or possibly three) aeration devices: a. Suzan Lake b. Ann Lake with deepeDing of the creek from Lucy Lake to allow winter fish movement under low oxygen conditions. . 4. Chemical rehabilitation with fish toxicants of four (or possibly five) lakes: a. Lucy Lake - 125 acres. b. Ann Lake - 119 acres. c. Suzan Lake - 93 acres. d. Rice Marsh Lake - 310 acres. e. Riley Lake - 300 acres. The costs for such a project would not be the responsibility of the individual cities alone, but could be a cooperative venture with the State of Minnesota under various agreements~ 1. Fish barriers: the acquisition, developement and maintenance of the fish barriers would be the responsibility.of the Section of Fisheries. Where a suitable site may exist on property already owned by either city, an agreement may be reached to develope the barrier there if not at cross purposes to other park use. 2. Public access: the provision for public access develope- ment may possibly include cooperation with the Metro Region Trails and Waterways Unit and the cities involved. . 3. Installati9n of aeration devices: a bill currently before the'State Legislature provides for a surcharge on fishing licenses for various fish management purposes. Among these purposes is the provision to monetarily assist locally interested parties in the installation of winter aeration devices. As of this writing this bill has not yet become law but is moving through both House and Senate. . . ,. April 25, 1983 Page Four , . F ( 4. Chemical rehabilitation: the cost of chemical re- habilitation and restocking would be borne by the Section of Fisheries with some local assistance with fish clean-up, if necessary. A project of this scale could obviously not be done all at once. No doubt the project would have to be "staged" based on the availability of funds. The first stage would be determining the location of the barrier sites, and their developement. The accesses could be done as soon in the plan as possible, but should be done before the installation of aeration devices, and must be done before chemical rehab- ilitation. For several years the DNR has been looking into the barrier site developement Qn Riley Creek downstream of Riley Lake. .Various problems have arisen prohibiting its' installation, but a new effort has been initiated this spring to obtain and develope a suitable site. Aisde from this, and our normal management activities on these lakes, the only project con- templated in the near future will be the determination of other suitable barrier sites. A comprehensive, intensive fish management program can provide significant angling Opportunities on lakes not now realizing their full productive potential. Recently water surface use studies (1979 & 1980) have included all but Rice Marsh Lake. Due to winterkills and limited access, fishing pressure has been lower than the Metro Region average for Lucy, Ann and Suzan Lakes. Riley Lake was above avera~e. . Potential. Lake Size Census Anqler Anqler Lake (Acres) Year Hours/Acre Hours/Acre Ann -,1'* 119 1979 11.7 100 Lucy 125 1979 4.3 100 Suzan 93 1980 4.3 100 Riley 300 1980 44.3 50 Metro Ave. (149 lakes) 1974-1982 . 36.4 (Bean) Lakes managed intensively with aeration devices are capable of producing "100 man-hours per acre of fishing pressure. Since the three upstream most lakes presently have very light fishing use, it is apparent that a significantly improved angling situation can result from the management plan proposed. .. . .. ,'t . . . April 25, 1983 Page Five Intensive fish management could double fishing opportunities in the Riley Creek watershed. Over 33,000 hOurs of fishing could be provided between May 1 and September 30 of each year where less than 16,000 hours is being provided currently. The Dep2rtment of Natural Resources wishes to work closely with the Cities of Chanhassen and Eden Prairie and the RiI8Y- Purgatory Creek Watershed District in the implementation of this proposal. We would welcome all considerations and comments regarding the proposal. With the support of the area's citizens we can make this intensive management proposal into a reality to the benefit of all who are involved. Thank you for your time and interest. s~:::' t Jx ~~ Edward L. Feiler Area Fisheries Supervisor S"?-c.tio!:\. Qf... 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(INn Fr-d:I:~ TU GUUD '~;LT: \ lJl..tlCl< ;.:::,:;~t+'i::'IE:~:) tIF:i::: 1...('II:;.~GEi:~ ,\j'..!D C!F~E(YTTJ::P~ ~':l.ni:C:LF;: Tlh~,NTh:::: ,~""'(d'T: ,::d,PJ i...UC(:,L. ,AJG i..::l:TH FIFH. ;~:,'\!.!C':;:U.:c) Fh:Gi') ".:.;..0 id,Ji.').,'.J :i::'lCldii::S. . e. AI;:E,~ FI~~:.HFI~ IES ~:;UPEF\VI~:;oF: t F.:F;UCE GII...I:c::r;:T~:!ON :1. ::,:()() t..h:\r~Nt~F~: 1:;:1:1 :::;T F"t,UI... (-'i /',1 ~.'j~:i :l. () 6 ;::' l., t (');"~ I::: :,: ~..:' .~. ::,.:: '".. :.:.:: 1,,;, (~) ,... :~;.~ .:? ~.:.:.1 ~? R.&'J Lash 6850 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J & C Schluck 6800 Utica Terrace Chanhassen, MN 55317 fY\ ~.Lucyl- 3 J & J Farrnakes 7100 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 ~ & M Ruckdashel 6831 Utica Circle Chanhassen, MN 55317 G Hoffman 6830 Utica Terrace Chanhassen, MN 55317 D & M Chmiel 7100 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 . Wayzata Bank & Trust Attn: Kathryn Ahlstrom 900 E. Wayzata Blvd. Wayzata, MN 55391 R & M Knudten 6850 Utica Terrace Chanhassen, MN 55317 G & K Maher 7101 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & D Barnhurst 6800 Utica Circle Chanhassen, MN 55317 A & N Olson 6890 Utica Terrace Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & MAnderson 7090 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 B & J Root 6830 Utica Circle Chanhassen, MN 55317 D & G Carlson 6900 Utica Lane Chanhasssen, MN 55317 G & S Corpron 7050 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 ~ & M Arnold 350 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 E & C Newinski 6930 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 L & M Tesch 7040 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 . M&KKoch 6870 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 W & P Ward 6960 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & M Noble 7000 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 K & D Earhart 6880 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 T & M Hickey 6990 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 M & L Wrayge 6996 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 B & V Ackerman 6890 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J Buehring 7000 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & ERose 5509 Scenic Hts Drive Minnetonka, MN 55343 E & C Jannusch 6831 Utica Terrace ~,anhassen, MN 55317 R & T Folsom 7050 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 L & J Hendrickson 6986 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 . S & J Reinertson 6801 Utica Terrace Chanhassen, MN 55317 D. Fisher 7090 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R Hendrickson ~~elJt/~5317 D: -Knudsen 6991 Redman Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 T&MKrueger 7136 Utica Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 A & B Finstad 11219 So. Oakva1e Rd. Mtka., MN 55343 . D. Siegel 7001 Redman Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 Jean Jarrett 7140 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 T & J Kraker 6441 White Dove Drive Excelsior, MN 55331 A & P Graikowski 7031 Redman Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 E. Sweeney 7146 Utica Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 S & J Dirks 9799 Brighton Lane Eden Prairie, Mn 55344 T & C Barrett 7051 Redman Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & L Severs 7150 Utica Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 Reinhold & L Guthrrdller 1801 W. 67th Street Excelsior, Mn 55331 D & J Slater 7071 Redman Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 Ted Coey 1381 Lake Lucy Road Excelsior, MN 55331 Paisley Park Attn: Prince Nelson 7801 Audubon Road Chanhassen, Mn 55317 . R Gregory 1 Redman Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 Warren Phillips 1571 Lake Lucy Road Excelsior, MN 55331 D. Morris 6981 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 R & C Tobias 7101 Redman Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 R & E Christiansen 1511 Lake Lucy Road Excelsior, Mn 55331 R & J Potz 6991 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 G Blaufuss & B Klick 7116 Utica Lane Chanhassen, Mn 55317 B & N Tichy 1471 Lake Lucy Road Excelsior, MN 55331 WIn & K Engebretson 7120 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J & D Morin 15820 So. Eden Drive Eden Prairie, MN 55344 J & J Way ~6 Utica Lane ~ssen, Mn 55317 M & K Sanda 1685 Steller Court Excelsior, MN 55331 J & M Kurimchak 7130 Utica Lane E & N Rivkin i 552'S Conifu Tr-aH A. It 'J Preston 6960 Tecurnseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 B & L Wells 6930 Redman Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 C. Eiler & M. Callahan 7000 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 .< & PRice 6950 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 S & P Albrecht 6951 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J&GCox 6990 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 . A & J McHale 6940 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & J McConnell 6971 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R. Rezac 6970 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J & M Mauritz 6930 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 C & K Koch 7001 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 L. Oby 6960 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 F & J Rogers. 6920 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 D & M Dunsnore 7051 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J & D Agnew 7061 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & B Badavinac 151 Utica Lane Wlanhassen, MN 55317 H & M Benson 7101 Tecumseh Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & V Barke 7071 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 . C & M Rumble 6861 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 L & C Watson 7131 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 G & M Smida 7081 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 D & D Rudolph 6871 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 R & G Pauly 7080 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 G & K Downing 7101 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 K & K Anderson 6881 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 W. Clayton & P. Webb 7050 Shawnee Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 D & L Vandiver 7141 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J & B Mackinnon 6891 Utica Lane ('l,anhassen, MN 55317 M & P Kinkel 7090 Redman Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J & C Wilson 7070 Redrnan Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 . J & J Landk~r 6901 Utica Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 J & V Abernathy 7050 Redman Lane Chanhassen, MN 55317 B & R Byrne ~=r: ~e55317 . CITY OF eHAHHASSEN 7 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 EMORANDUM FROM: Park and Recreation Commission Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator G:7 February 22, 1989 TO: nATE: SUBJ: Request for Basketball Hoops at North Lotus Lake Park Attached please find a request from John Schorgl requesting that 2 basketball hoops be installed at North Lotus Lake Park. Mr. Shorgl is suggesting that a basketball court be incorporated on the existing tennis courts. . Staff feels that this arrangement is workable, at least until the pnrk usage is such that a separate court is needed. The nets, backboards and poles can be purchased for roughly $1,000. funding for this purchase would be available if the access road for Bluff Creek is taken out of the 1989 budget as previously discussed. This would also leave a s~rplus in the budget for other minor requests that may corne up throughout the year. . , JOHN MCKANNA SCHORGL 6533 Gray Fox Curve, Chanhassen, MN 55317 612-934-9255 Jan uary 4, 1989 Lori Sietsema Park & Recreation Coordinator City of Chanhassen Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Lori, As per our phone conversation today this is a formal request for a basketball court to be established at the North Lotus Lake Park. As we discussed, the minimum requirement for a basketball court would be a pole, backboard, hoop and a net. The actual basketball court would be the tennis courts already in place. This shared court construction Is already In place at a number of parks In Eden Prairie (e.g. Duck Lake Park on Duck Lake Trail). I have attached a rough layout of what it would look like for an installed court. If there Is any concern of overcrowding on the 'shared' court, rest assured that traffic at the tennis court Is almost nonexistence, and the stamina of we "future first round draft picks" is at the level of a coach potato, i.e. so our games would be short. Finally, there Is a number of us Fox Hollowlans that would volunteer our labor in the Installation of the basketball cou rt. Thank you for considering this proposal and I would appreciate a response at your earliest convenience. Any questions please call. ;l~ P.S. What would you recommend for our team to be called, the L.A. Lakers (Lotus Area) or the TlmberFoxes?! cc. Don Chmiel Mayor (w/o attached) Don Ashworth City Manager (w/o attached) . . . Ri;.CE.1V k::.O JAN 06 1989 CITY OF CHANHASSEN . . < 0 " Q: o ~ . r . I I I < ~ ~ ~ a \j cr::::::' I........ ~ ~ ~ OU::: ~~\'\I ~ I\J jlt t- ~ ~ I, V) I '- :< ,< :~ ! i I ! ~ 1\3 1 I.~ ;~ I~ :\-=- CITY OF CHANHASSEN ~ . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission '7;! FR OM: Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor DATE: February 23, 1989 SUBJ: Vending License Request, Lake Ann Park Gary Lindgren As can be seen from the attached letter, Gary Lindgren, President of Domo Products, Inc., would like to operate a concession wagon at Lake Ann Park beach for the summer of 1989. A representative of Domo Products will be present on Tuesday evening to discuss this proposal in detail and to answer any questions from the Commission. Domo Products worked with the City on one previous occasion when serving popcorn at the Oktoberfest event early last fall. . The provision of this service at Lake Ann Park would enhance the recreational experience at the beach area, as many requests for concessions are received each year; however, to ensure this result, careful selection of a generator would be necessary. It would be very undesireable to operate this wagon with a generator which is loud enough to create a distraction. An additional request to vend at Lake Ann Park has been received through a phone conversation from a representative of Blue Bell Ice Cream. However, staff recommends that only one vendor be licensed to operate in Lake Ann Park per year. As Domo Products, Inc.'s proposal includes a greater variety of items, it is recom- mended that their request be approved. Attached is an updated agreement between the City of Chanhassen and Domo Products, Inc. Upon tbe satisfaction of the Commission that this arrangement and the terms of this agreement are accep- table, and upon Mr. Lindgren verifying that he will comply with the terms of the agreement, a copy will ~e executed. . . . . Domo Products, Inc. 15202 Crestview Lane Minnetonka, Minnesota USA 55345 612-933-7343 January 24, 1989 Todd Hoffman City of Chanhassen 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, Mn. 55317 Dear Todd, As per our phone conversation of January 23, 1989, we are requesting approval of the following by the City Council. We will be providing a concession wagon at the Lake Ann Beach for the summer of 1989 beginning Memorial Day weekend and ending Labor Day weekend. The hours of service would of course be subject to weather conditions on a day to day basis however, a seven day week is planned with hours of between 10 to 11 A.M. to 6 to 8 P.M. depending on the needs. The wagon will be brought in daily and removed at the end of use each day. A portable generator will be used for the source of power. Items to be served will be as follows: Soft Ice Cream Cones and Frozen Ice Cream Products Hot Dogs Popcorn Nachos and Cheese Peanuts and Candy Bars Four Flavors of Soft Drinks The wagon to be used the first year will be a 7' X 10' unit. The construction and equipment meet all NSF standards. If the first season goes well, we could provide a larger unit in 1990 which could serve more food products. We would also like to request the 1st option for serving the Lake Ann Beach for the next years until .such time as a permanent facility is built by the City of Chanhassen. Your prompt consideration for our service to your beach is greatly appreciated as we will have to reserve one of our wagons specifically for this purpose. T~ ,,;,~':'. v L;.;.U Sincerely, 7fry M. Lindgren, [I~ L) tv\' . ~1.t~ Pres. JAN 2 5 1989 CITY. OF CHANHASSEN AGREEMENT . THIS AGREEMENT, dated this day of 1989, between the CITY OF CHANHASSEN, a Minnesota municipal corporation (hereinafter *city.), and DOMO PRODUCTS, INC., (hereinafter .*Concessionaire*). NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of their mutual . covenants the parties agree as follows: 1. The Concessionaire may operate a mobile food concession wagon in Lake Ann Park. 2. Ten percent (10%) of the Concessionaire's gross revenue, excluding sales tax, from the concession shall be paid to the city. Concessionaire shall provide weekly reports of business profits to the City Manager and shall pay the fee to the City on the 1st day of each month for the previous month during the term of this Agreement. 3. Concessionaire shall have a current license from the . State Board of Health to prepare and sell food from the concession and the license shall be prominently posted on the concession wagon. 4. Concessionaire shall pick up refuse within a reasonable area surrounding the concession wagon on a daily basis. 5. Concessionaire shall not dispense any items of food or drink in glass containers from the concession wagon. 6. Concessionaire shall maintain regular business hours as weather permits for the convenience of park users. Hours of operation shall be posted on the concession wagon in full view ~f . ~ the publici however, said concession wagon shall not open sooner than 9:00 a.m. nor close later than 10:00 p.m. daily. 7. The concession wagon shall be located only in areas of Lake Ann Park authorized and approved by the City Manager and Concessionaire shall not drive on the lawn when the grounds are wet and damage to the sod may occur. 8. The Concessionaire agrees not to sell tobacco or beer. 9. Concessionaire shall indemnify and hold harmless the City Council, agents, and employees of the City from and against all claims, damages, losses, or expenses, including attorney's fees, which the city Council, agents, or employees of the City may suffer or for which it may be held liable arising out of or ~ resulting from the assertion against them of any claims, debts, obligations, consequence of the performance of this Agreement by Concessionaire, its employees or agents. 10. Concessionaire acknowledges that it is an independent contractor and not an employee or agent of the City. 11. The City reserves the right to authorize other vendors in the Park. 12. Concessionaire shall take out and maintain during the term of this Agreement liability and property damage insurance covering its business in the park. Limits for bodily injury or death shall be not less than $300,000 for one person and $500,000 for each occurrencei limits for property damage shall be not less than $100,000 for each occurrence. The City shall be named as an ~ additional insured on the policy. -2- 13. This Agreement shall be in full force and effect from ~ May 1, 1989, through September 5, 1990. The City reserves the right to terminate this Agreement at any time, with or without cause. CITY OF CHANHASSEN BY: Don Ashworth, City Manager DOMO PRODUCTS, INC. BY: Gary M. Lindgren, President ~ ~ -3- &, . CITY 0 F CHARHASSER 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5Q317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator ~ February 22, 1989 DATE: SUBJ: Funding Availability for Carver Beach Road and Laredo Drive 5idewalks . The 1988 Budget is in the process of being closed out. In doing so, it was discovered that the Park Development Fund has collected roughly $100,000 more than was anticipated. In light of this finding, staff felt that the Commission may want to recon- sider their recommendation to revise the 1989 Capital Improvement Program and simply request a budget adjustment to cover the $83,000 cost of the sidewalks along Carver Beach Road and Laredo Drive. Staff will forward a complete budget summary to you for your review when the 1988 close out is complete. . . ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION 1. 1988 Park and Recreation Commission Attendance Record. 2. Memo from Jim Chaffee dated February 17, 1989. 3. Memo from Lori Sietsema dated February 24, 1989. 4. Memo from Scott Harr dated February 24, 1989. 5. Letter from Mary Koester dated February 22, 1989. 6. Memo from Lori Sietsema dated February 24, 1989. . . . . . Mike Lynch Jim Mady Sue Boyt Curt Robinson Ed Hasek Carol Watson Larry Schroers Park and Recreation Ccmnission 1988 Attendance Record J F M M A A M M J J J J J A S S 0 N N 0 A E A A P P A A U U U U U U E E C 0 0 E N B R R R R Y Y N N L L L G P P T V V C 2E 2 8 2~ l' 2E lC 2~ V 2~ l' 2 2E 9 1~ 2 Ie 1 2' 1 X A A X X A A X X A X X A X ----------------- X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X A X X X X X A X X X X X X X X X X X A A X X A X X X X X X X A X X X X A X A X X X X X X A X X A A X X X X X X X X A A X X A X A X X X A X X X A X X X X A X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X / 100% 90% 80% 75% 70% 95% Please note that the Park and Recreation Ccmnission has also attended special on site meetings and assisted with community events such as the July 4th Celebration, Easter Egg Hunt, Halloween Party and Oktoberfest. c:um/~ &- c-/. CITY OF CHANHASSEN ~ . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 February 17, 1989 Dear Resident: On Thursday, March 9, 1989, the Public Safety Commission will be meeting at City Hall in the Council Chambers to discuss public safety issues. I have been told that there is a particular con- cern involving public safety problems in your area. I would like to invite you to attend to discuss these problems with the County Sheriff, his Chief Deputy, and the Public Safety Commission. The meeting starts at 7:00 p.m. and you will be invited to talk . about your concerns immediately after the opening of the meeting. Please feel free to contact me should you have any questions regarding thi3 meeting. Sincerely, (JZ~~~ector JC:k cc: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator Don Ashworth, City Manager Al Wallin, Sheriff . . CITY OF CHAHHASSEH :2 Q 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinatorLs, DATE: February 24, 1989 SUBJ: Rotating Chair . It has come to my attention that there are questions as to whether the Park and Recreation Commission should be rotating the Chairperson position. The Commission started this rotation for a number of reasons. The first was to simply allow each Commissioner the opportunity to chair meetings as a learning experience. Secondly, this system allows the Commission to use the personality qualities of each Commissioner in positive ways as different situations present themselves. For instance, there are different personalities on the Commission and some are better suited to handle volatile situations and some are better suited to handle "full" agendas, etc. It is not the Commission's intent to cause confusion, but only to capitalize on the talents that each individual has to offer. The City Code {attached} allows the Commission to adopt rules for its conduct. However, if such is causing confusion or concern, upon your direction I will ask the Commission to reconsider this procedure. . r: -- r - .~.:.~;~-;.- (- .~:i . . Chapter 14 PARKS AND RECREATION. Art. I. In General, If 14-1-14-15 Art. II. Park And Recreation Commission, If 14-16-14-30 Art. III. Neighborhood Park Acquisition And Improvement, If 14-31-14-55 Art. IV. Park Rules, If 14-56-14-67 -- -'"'! ARTICLE I. IN GENERAL Sees. 14-1-14-15. Reserved. ARTICLE II. PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSIONt Sec. 14-16. Created. There is created a park and recreation commission. (Ord. No. 17, ~ 1, 1-15-68) . Sec. 14-17. Members. The park and recreation commission shall consist of seven (7) members serving terms of three (3) years each. Members of the commission shall serve without compensation. (Ord. No. 17, ~ 1,1-15-68) Sec. 14-18. Officers; meetings; rules. (a) The park and recreation commission shall select from among its membership a chairman and a vice-chairman. The vice-chairman shall serve as chairman in the absence of the chairman. Such officer shall be selected at the regular meeting of the commission in January of each year. ~ (b) The commission shall adopt rules for the conduct of its -work. The rules shall include the establishment of a regular time for monthly meetings of the commission. The rules may be changed, enlarged or amended by majority vote at any regular meeting of the commission. .Cross reference-Boats and waterways, Ch. 6. State law references-Authority of city to establish, improve, maintain, etc., parks, parkways and recreational facilities, and to protect and regulate their use, M.S. U 412.491, 429.021(6); authority for city to operate a program of public recreation and playgrounds, M.S. t 471.15 et seq. tCross reference-Boards and commissions generally, t 2-46 et seq. . 779 . . . C ITV 0 F CHANHASSEN I f 7 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Lake Lucy Area Homeowners FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator l7 DATE: July 13, 1988 SUBJ: Public Information Gathering Meeting for Lake Lucy Public Access The City Council recently approved a resolution making a commit- ment to obtaining public access on Lakes Lucy and Susan. The Council assigned these projects to the Park and Recreation Com- mission. As a result of this direction, the commission will be holding public meetings to gather information on potential access sites for each lake. The Lake Lucy information meeting will be held on Tuesday, July 26th at 7:30 p.m. in the City Council Chambers at City Hall. Background The City was recently notified by the Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District that a Lake Riley chain of lakes clean up project was approved by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency (PCA). This million dollar project will be funded pri- marily by the PCA (50%) and the DNR (50%). The lakes involved in the clean up are Lakes Lucy, Ann, Susan and Riley. Before any work or money can be spent, it is both DNR and PCA policy that public access be available on all lakes involved. As the Council feels this is an important project and a unique opportunity to improve the water and fishing quality of our lakes, they have made a commitment to obtain access on the lakes currently without access, i.e. Lakes Lucy and Susan. Your input on this item would be greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, or need additional information, please con- tact me at 937-1900. CITY 0 F CHANHASSEN L-j . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator FROM: Scott Harr, Asst. Public Safety Director DATE: February 24, 1989 SUBJ: Eurasian Water Milfoil Lori, this memo is in response to our conversation as well as a conversation I just had with Councilman Bill Boyt. I hope that you and I can work together on dealing with this issue of concern to the community. Upon my return from vacation, I would suggest that we meet to . develop a strategy. I suggested to Bill that we possibly meet with one of the DNR experts as well as one of the private sector weed eradication people to decide just what it is that we can best do to prevent our lakes from being taken over. CC: Councilman Bill Boyt . , . -~::t. -'11 " -:~' --, ~ .-'- - - . ...--.= -F:. .?'j -ii.,,:: " _.~-~,~ - ;:-~;::- f; '-- .-- ~..~)~~ . '-;:-' , " --X . :t~ , :1!'t \ . ., / 'I. ",' ....;::;:.: .' .. -, ""'~-,- -,.".:: - --.'" --,.",-.'.. ".' " " _~..o,;., ','_.'. ~ <'_ ~ . .' . '. ".'~ . ,- .~_., ~~~--_'~"'."" - . I iii' - ::'! -.-~- J.. , . s f~2.2J\C1~ -. . .....~ . -....+...-" - .-.....- JL~::t~~~::}r~~~ . _~)~~ \0M\\- '\u hOL--'.~<L-~-~ k,H, ' ~-~~ ~ 1(. . .~ .- JJ~ --'l.LCY--\\...l\ (\D ..' l.V. "'^-'- ~~'f\"-'c.~ '- ~ . ' ' . ~ W;"__2~D ~~__~~~~'. ~CD91~Q 'k-~~~~~~, . __~ _ _ _' ~~~hL0~ uJ '~ -'.. - -- _..' ._~~ Urn~ l"~ .LI'.. ~.2-. '-("_ c- ~.J .~ , . t... .... ."..~ .--FEB 2:4-1989- CII'f.OE.CHANHASSe:N._ .______, -.: .. CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator ~ DATE: February 24, 1989 SUBJ: 1989 Annual MRPA Conference The annual MRPA Conference is scheduled for spring this year rather than fall. The dates of the conference are April 19, 20 and 21. The Commission should decide who would like to attend so that we can take advantage of early registration discounts when registration information arrives. Funding is available for two Commissioners to attend. b . . . '" F { C ITV 0 F CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinat~ April 1, 1988 DATE: SUBJ: Lake Riley Chain of Lakes Improvement Project The Riley-Purgatory--Bluff Creek Watershed District (RPBCWD) jointly funded a Diagnostic-Feasibility Study of the Riley Creek Chain of Lakes with the cities of Chanhassen and Eden prairie during 1985. The study report was used as part of a Clean Lakes Program grant application to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The grant award for the Lake Riley Chain of Lakes Improvement Project was made in mid-1986. To date, little has been done on the project due, in part, to potential financial liabilities associated with the project that may obligate the RPBCWD to supply the local share of project funds if the DNR could not complete its portion of the project. The DNR fisheries work forms the majority of the local matching funds for the project. Their inability to fully participate in the project could result from the lack of public access on some of the lakes involved, i.e. Lake Lucy, Lake Ann, Lake Susan, and Lake Riley. The Lake Riley Chain of Lakes Improvement Project is potentially a $940,000 project which will improve lake and stream water quality at minimal cost to either the RPBCWD or the cities of Chanhassen and Eden Prairie. The project budget is as follows: EPA Project Support: Non-Federal Support: MN DNR Support Watershed Districts & Cities TOTAL $467,630 447,630 22,630 $937,890 As stated earlier, the DNR is expected to provide the majority of the local funds required (50%) for this project through its involvement in the renovation of fisheries in project lakes. To do so, however, they must be assured public access to the lakes, 1 . .' .