1989 03 14 Agenda
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AGENDA
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
TUESDAY, MARCH 14, 1988, 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
1.
Call to order.
2.
Appointment of the Acting Chairperson.
3.
Approval of February 28, 1989 Minutes.
4.
Review the Lake Lucy Road Trail/Parking Issue.
5.
Review Southern Parkland Parcels.
6.
Review Requests for Concession Stand at Lake Ann Park.
7 .
Site Plan Review - AMCON-Empak, Inc.
8.
Site Plan Review - Lake Susan Hills West, 3rd Addition.
9. Approval of July 4th Contracts.
10. 1989 Ice Skating Program Review.
11. Softball Update.
i? Discussion of Policy of Rotating Chair Position.
13. Commission Presentation.
14. Administrative Packet.
CITY OF
CHARHASSEN
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Don Ashworth, City Manager
FR OM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
DATE:
February 21, 1989
SUBJ:
Joint City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
The Park and Recreation Commission has requested that a joint
meeting with the City Council be scheduled. The Commission would
like to introduce themselves to the Mayor and new Council members
as well as discuss Park and Recreation related items and
policies.
Basically, the Commission would like to get a clear understanding .
of what the City Council's philosophies are. Items to be considered
for discussion include:
Chanhassen Trail System
Park Deficient Areas
Discussion of Philosophies and policies
It is anticipated that this is just a matter of touching base
with each other and such could be done in a meeting preceding
the March 13th City Council meeting. If such is approved, I will
schedule the meeting for Monday, March 13, 1989 at 6:30 p.m.
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
DATE: March 3, 1989
SUBJ: Joint Park and Recreation Commission/City Council Meeting
The City Council and Park and Recreation Co~nission will have a
joint meeting on March 13 at 6:30 p.m. prior to the regular City
Council meeting. The Park and Recreation Commission is
interested in getting direction from the City Council on policies
and philoso?hies. A one-hour time frame is probably not a
sufficient amount of time to go into great detail on specific
items. Therefore, it was suggested that the discussion
concentrate on the expectations the Council has of the Co~nission
and how the two groups can work together to accomplish the park
and recrea~ional goals of the City.
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CITY OF
CHAIHASSEI
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
DATE: March 10, 1989
SUBJ: Lake Lucy Road Trail/Parking Issue
The City Council has received a petition requesting that parking
be allowed along Lake Lucy Road. Attached please find the minu-
tes of the last three City Council meetings and the staff reports
outlining possible alternatives.
In summary, to allow on-street parking would require taking out
the bike lanes along Lake Lucy Road (see Engineer's report, .
attachment #5). Removing the trail is not acceptable to trail
users and the no parking condition is not acceptable to abutting
property owners. Therefore, a compromise should be reached. In
researching this item with Engineering, there seems to be three
options:
Option #1 (see attachment A): This option would allow an 8-foot
parking lane along the south side of the road, two 12-foot traf-
fic lanes, and moving the curb in 3 feet to allow an 8-foot wide
off-street multi-purpose trail along the full length of Lake Lucy
Road on top of the curb. This option would require a minor
variance from MnDOT and has an estimated cost of $75,000.
Option #2 (see attachment Bf: This optIon would allow parking
along the south side of the street, two full traffic lanes, and
an off-street 6-foot wide trail along the north side of the road.
This option would require the trail to be scaled down to 5 feet
along the retaining wall and has an estimated cost of $50,000.
Option #3 (see attachment C) :,.This option would provide off-
street parking pads for the residents who live along Lake Lucy
Road. The bike lanes would remain as they currently exist. The
estimated cost is roughly $2,600 per pad.
Staff feels that each of these options will accomplish the needs .
of both groups. The Park and Recreation Commission may want to
ask for public reaction to each of the options before making a
recommendation to the City Council.
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Park and Recreation Commission
March 10, 1989
Page 2
Attachments
A. Option 1.
B. Option 2.
C. Option 3.
1. Second petition from Lake Lucy Road Residents.
2. February 27, 1989 City Council meeting minutes.
3. Staff report from February 27, 1989 City Council meeting.
4. February 13, 1989 City Council meeting minutes.
5. Staff report from February 13, 1989 City Council meeting.
6. First petition from Lake Lucy Road Residents.
7. January 23, 1989 City Council meeting minutes.
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;:~ ;41W~pat'k i ng and bike LI:aqe as i ~ d.~,~ . b,efc:~~e ~t:7 Jri~;'~'! t"oad was
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, ':~ "City Council Meeting - FE 13ry 27, 1989
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REVIEW LAKE LUCY ROAD TAAIL/PARKING ISSUE.
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Mayor Chmiel: The next item is the review of the Lake Lucy Road trail/parking
issue. My suggestion at this time is that I'm going to propose in tabling the
issue at this time but we will take public comnents on this. We will bring this
back to the Council on March 13th. So anyone wishing to address the issue.
To:n Steinkallp: May I ask why you want to table it?
Mayor Chmiel: Because there's one council member that's not here. Please state
your name and address please.
Tom Steinkamp: Torn Steinkamp, 1771 Pheasant Circle. First of all I think
there's a bunch of people here. Maybe everybody concerned with this matter
should stand up. Ei ther for or agai nst it. Now you want to table thi s?
r13yor Chmiel: Yes.
Torn Steinkamp: I mean and make us come again. I guess my cooments on the
thing, on the situation is I can understand maybe that some people would like to
park on Lake Lucy Road. I think the issue is maybe way bigger than that. It is
a trail. I've talked to some of you people. I think some of the other people
have talked to you people. Some of you people have the idea that the trail
doesn't get used. You drive it two times a day. I think Tom you drive 'it two
times a day probably at 7: 30 in the morning and 5: 30 in the evening to pick up
and deliver your kid from daycare. That's what you told me.
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CounciLman ~vork:nan: 5:30? I did not tell you that.
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Torn Steinkamp: Okay, well you told me boD times a day. In the morning and
evening. It's probably around 5:30.
Councilman Workman: It's more like 8:100-8:30 in the morning and about 3:30 in
the afternoon.
Tom Steinkallp: I think if you got out there and people are home in the evenings
on nice evenings you'll see that it gets used.
CounciLlllan Workman: I don't disagree that it's not used. That's not my point.
Tom Steinkamp: Okay. I think that the trail is a part of a broad comprehensive
trail program. Trail system that the city's got in place that I thj nk has been
voted on and passed which someday may come to real i ty. Did any of you guys know
why Lake Lucy Road was realigned to the south on the 'Nest side of Lake Lucy
Road? Does anybody know? Wasn't it to li ne it up to ex tend it to County Road
41 at a future date?
Gary Warren: The City's State Aid program does provide for continuing Lake Lucy
out to TH 41. Because of the property owner at the time, Merrill Stellar was
platting Lake Lucy Highlands, that was at the fulcrum that got the road platted
arrl the right-of-way established as it is.
. Tom Steinkamp: And that allows for Lake Lucy Road to continue?
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20
Ci ty Council ~eeting - Fe~ruary 27, 1989
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Gary Warren: Because we couldn't push it through the Melody Hills area b2cause
those roads are already there.
Tom Steinkamp: {mere would that come out on TH 41? About directly across the
street fr~~ the park?
Gary Warren: Near the church that's going to be constructed up there.
Tom Steinkamp: About directly across the street fran the park?
Gary Warren: A little bit north of there.
Tan Steinkamp: I think that adds to part of the reason why there should be a
trail there. These people in Curry Farms. Us people in Pheasant Hills. I
think we'd be more apt to use your parks if we could get to them but if you're
constructing roads and you're not thinking about trails, this trail's already
there. I mean in the long range plan, there's going to be a need for it. Yes,
it doesn't go anywhere right now. It goes from Lake Lucy Road to Galpin Blvd.
but I think in the long term it's going to go someplace. I voted for the trail
system that failed. The reason I voted for it is I looked at how that trail
system was going to affect me. It was going to affect me because I could get on
it. If you take away the trail on Lake Lucy Road, I'm not going to be able to
get on any other trails. I think it's necessary to keep it there. I think the
concern of one or two citizens or haneowners. I think there were 11 haneowners,
25 signatures, 11 properties, that signed the petition. I think there's a lot
more people that use the trails and want the trails there. I guess when I build
a house I have to consider the parking and I guess I can't see th3t I need to go
to the ci ty to supply pad:i.ng for me. I live on a cul-de-sac and there isn't
much parking on the cul-de-sac. Does that mean th3t I can come to you and ask
for parking lot across the street fran me or something? I think you're opening
yourself up to building parking lots in this city also. I think the people use
it. I thi.nk it's going to get used more. I think it'd be foolish to take
so:nething away. Yes, I'd like to have it a 6 foot trail off street but I think
that's going to cost some money and people aren't going to want it and it will
further encroach their yards and I can certainly understand that but I can't see
taking away something that's there already. Thank you.
Joe Moran: My name is Joe Moran and I'm building a home right now on Lake Lucy
. Road. 1441 Lake Lucy Road and I eXPect to be moving in fran Fden Prairie
sometime in April. Wh3t I have here is the peti tion that the previous
gentleman referred to and I'd like to present that to you. Also I'd like to
have Nancy Tichy provide you sane more background and detailed information.
Would you like me to read this?
M3yor Chmiel: Yes, if you would.
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Joe Moran: Okay. The petition reads, ve, the undersigned who live on or own
property on Lake Lucy Road petition the City of Chanhassen to allow parking
on Lake Lucy Road. We feel that the best and least expensive way to accanplish
this would be to r6l10ve the no parking bike lane signs and markings. ~-e would
prefer parking made available on one side of Lake Lucy Road in accordance with
. State Codes concerning roads of this width. W? feel that this solution would
accomnodate the residents and citizens of Olanhassen for both parking and bike
useage as it did before the new road was constructed in 1987. You'll note that
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City Council Meeting - Fs .l3ry 27, 1989
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there are 37 signatures on the petition. I also have two personal comnents I'd
like to make. First of all, being new to this area, I think I'm fairly unbiased
in terms of the issue. One of the things I was most impressed with was the
sensitivity am sincerity of the people that put thjs petition together in
addressing the needs and concerns of all of the residents in the area so it
makes me feel good about my choice of moving to this area. The secom point i'd
like to make is that I think the ~rk petition is kind of an advisarial kind of
a word and I don't think we're really peti tioning against anything. What you'll
find Nancy talking about is really a proposal for something with some very minor
changes to the way things are and I'd like to think of that as more of a
constructive proposal, a compromise solution that meets the needs of all the
people in the area. So with your permission, I'd like to set up the overhead
and have Nancy present the proposal.
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Nancy Tichy: My name is Nancy Tichy and I live at 1471 Lake Lucy Road. I would
like to just make a couple corrments to what Mr. Steinkamp stated. The area
designated for bike route on Lake Lucy Road is not a trail. They are bike
lanes. I think there is a difference. Also, as far as an overall trail syst~
for this city, I believe the referendum carne to a vote for the citizens this
past fall and was voted down. It had been brought to a vote previously am had
also been voted down at that time. I have several other personal corrments that
I'd like to make before I present what the residents who have signed the
peti tion feel is a good proposal. First, the majori ty of residents on Lake Lucy
Road "JOuld like to be able to park am have the benefit to park on the road as
we IM:!re able to before Lake Lucy Road was reconstructed in 1987. The houses
that existed prior to the reconstruction depended on parking and many of us who
live on that road and lived there before the road was reconstructed, IM:!re never
told that 1M:! would not be able to park on that road. As a matter of fact, we
were told we \tK)uld be able to park on the road. Secondy, State Aid funded 69%
or about 69% of the cost of improvements made to Lake Lucy Road and 31% or about
of the cost was assessed to the residents \vi th property which abuts to the road.
Since 1M:! are funding part of the cost of the road, 1M:! feel we should have the
benefit to park on it. Third, the improvements made on Lake Lucy Road were
completed about in August, 1987. The no parkin9 signs and the bike trail signs
IM:!re not installed until the following spring in 1988. Now during that time,
that was a 9 month period where the road accorrmodated the residents for parking.
We parked on the road and it was not often and it also accanmodated bikers and
walkers. I bike. I walk and there was no prol:>lem. I think many of the people
opposed to leaving the bike lanes there as they are think there's going to be
bumper to bumper parking on that road and during that 9 month span, it was
rarely parked on and it was just for special occasions when we had guests over
or 1M:! wanted to hold meetj ngs or something like that 1M:! would use the street for
parking or inclement weather. I guess I'd like to present what we think is a
good option for all the residents. We're trying to come up with something that
would please everyone or make it available for everyone. I use the road to bi,ke
and walk and I ~uld also like to park on it. What Joe is putting up on the
overhead is also on this handout. Lake Lucy Road is 36 feet wide and according
to the State Aid Engineering office, the traffic lanes must remain at 12 feet.
That is the mj nimum which ~uld allow 24 feet of the road used for traffic. If
parking would be allowed, I believe the State also requires that you allow 8
feet so that would add up to 32 feet. The other 4 feet could be used as a
multiple use route. The only markings, the State requires that you mark the
line for the p3rking and the center marking. The centerline marking but they do
not allow you, I bel j eve to put the marking for a mul tiple use route. We feel
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City Council ivleetjng - ,C'ebruary 27,1989
that the changes to the road would be minimum and at a mlnJrnum cost to the City.
It ~uld be a matter of ranoving the no parking signs on the south side of the
street and move the center stripe 2 feet north. Now \oJe don't really care which
side the parking is on. The parking could go on the south side or the north
side, it doesn't matter. We feel that this proposal meets the MSA guidelines.
Is modeled after plans used by the d. ties of Hopkins and Minnetonka Park and Rec
Departments. They have had similar problems or many problems where they have
roads where people ~uld like to park on then and also use then for biking and
walking and they have come up with this solution. It's optional but you.could
put up the sign bike route and that's what they have done in the past to handle
the parking. It provides needed p3rking on one side of the road and it provides
a multiple use route for biking, horseback riding, walking or whatever. we feel
tha tit accoomoda tes all the residents. Thank you.
Councilman Johnson: Before our next person fran the audience stands up and
talks, I'd like to make a statement. 01 the t~ referendums ~ held, we did not
vote as to whether ~ will have a plan or not have a plan. The referendum was
how ~uld we finance trails in this city. It was not, are ~ going to have
trails in the city. The trail plan was not defeated because it was never voted
on by the citizens. It's never been brought to that. It has passed the various
Planning Co:nrnissions and City Councils and is part of our Comprehensive Plan
required t.~rough the Metropolitan Council, etc.. What has been defeated is that
the citizens of Chanhassen do not want to pay for the trail system. Narrowly
defeat.ed t"wice. The existing system for financing the trail system is through
new developnent and charges bei.ng directed to the new developers and the new
homes. They each pay a trail fee and industry pays a trail fee as they move in
and through this method \ve will eventually have a trail systen throughout the
city t."1at our citizens can use. It's just going to take us a lot longer since
~ weren't able to pass bonds or pass a referendum for it. So I wanted to
clarify that. I continue hearing from the public that we have voted down a
trail systan and that's not true at all. We only voted down how ~ finance a
trail systell.
Nancy Tichy: Hay I ask a question then? Why on sorne of the sheets it says
proposed? en the trail systan that I got, it \vas proposed.
Councilman Johnson: All the trails are proposed because they haven't been built
..yet. If they were there then there'd be a trail.
Nancy Tichy: I see a proposal as not have been passed yet or needed to be voted
. '- on. I don't see it as it's already been voted on and passed. These systems,
J from What I've seen, look like they're proposals. Not that they've been passed
..:.already. ,':..
Counci Lllan Johnson: Some of them we have to buy land and everything else and
until it's completed, yes.
Nancy Tichy: Then it's sti 11 a proposal. It's not a plan.
Councilman Johnson: No it's a trail plan. It's part of our Comprehensive Plan
required by the State for each city to have a Comprehensive Plan.
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Nancy Tichy: But it's still a proposal right?
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>'City Council Meeting - F
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Co unci Lllan Johnson: Sure, but it has never been, as a tr a il plan we have never
come to the citizens am say do you want trails except for the surveys and in
the surveys overwhelmingly, the citizens did say they want trails in thi s town.
v~ ca~e am said do you want to pay for the trails am by an extremely narrow
margin, they lost. They said no, we don't want to pay for the trails. We have
to respect that.
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John Speiss: My name is John Speiss and I live at 6610' Arlington Court.. I'm
relatively new to Chanhassen as a resident. I don't know, a lot of people have
moved out of the city for one reason or another and if you've ever lived in a
city with parking on both sides of your street and in front of your house, you
find out how soon you can't stand it anymore. Every time you look for a parking
place, sanebody' s in it. The children can't get out between the cars too
easily. A lot of them get hit and I guess one of the big issues about on street
parking is that we do have to have our children out there at some times. Usually
in the summer when everybody's trying to use the parks. It creates traffic. It
creates people driving to our parks and trying to get in there when they're no
parking at the parks. It see.ms most sensible that if the people want to use the
parks, they can use their bicycles to get there and we won't have a parking
problem. But if we start creating parking all along our trail system, we're
goin:J to have a big prob18l1 gettin:J rid of it when it's uncontrolled. I don't
see a problem in the winter. Nobody can park there anyway because of snow
removal. I don't see a problem for the chi Idren in the 'Hinter. They're not
going to be out there that much but usually when everybody wants to park is in
the summer am it's just going to be overloaded before we know it. Thank you.
Eric Rivkin: My name is Eric Rivkj n. I live at 6095 Stellar Court. Stellar
Court is a side road that is a new road that comes off of, empties into
Lake Lucy Road. I won't have a parking problem necessar ily but I fear for my
child's life on Lake Lucy Road when he starts to grmv up. Ride a bike. ~valk
along the road and I think this problem of safety is a lot deeper than anybody
has mentioned so far. I've had a lot of chance to talk to neighbors here. I
know by name most everybody who's involved in this and is sitting here tonight.
I've also got a little bit of past history with this. D..lring the past year
I built a house, I contracted it myself and I \.;ras there every single day driving
along Lake Lucy Road. Before it was paved, I happened to notice that there was
a lot of people using the road. It \Vas appealin-3 to walk on it. Horseback ride
on it. Jog on it. Even bike on it. There were bike races. Jogging races.
Things going along the road and everyti:ne I would drive on it, which was all
times of the day, I'd see a constant stream of people. Especially on weekends.
Now that the road has been paved over, I don't see, I was here every single day
during this past sumner and spring and fall and I'd have to say that the
population of strollers and joggers and what not has noticeably decreased and
it's because of the design of road. I want to stress that safety is the biggest
issue here for me and I think, we had a neighborhood meeting here a couple of
Sundays ago and a lot of the residents voiced very loud opinions about the
feeling that the road was unsafe. That it was converted from basically a quiet
country road, albeit very dusty and something had to be done about that but from
a quiet country road to basically to one equivalent to Highway 10'1. The
pavement is wider than TH 10'1. TH 10'1' s p3vement is 30' feet. I know.
I measured it because I had a developnent there that I had to measure it. So
it's designed for motorists. It's not designed for people. It's not designed
for developJng or encouraging a corrmunity who's getting an influx of a lot of
young fami lies who want a coherent ccmnuni ty. It's designed for people to pass
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from one em of town to the other. If you're exteooing to TH 41, which I hope
you never will, it's just going to aggravate the problem because people are
goiTl3 to see this as a nice, snooth way to bypass the traffic on TH 5 between
those Powers Blvd. and TH 41. I changed my opinion about parking. I empathize
with the residents who feel they need parking. I think it was a right that
should not have been taken away or a design feature that should not have been
taken away. But I want to propose a compromise solution that I think might
solve everybody's, maybe solve some problems. It also creates new ones but I
think with some creative legislation, perhaps some work on your parts, maybe
this thing could be considered. I'd like to use the overhead if I could. Right
now the road is 36 feet. You've got 6 feet on either side for what multiple use
as Joe and Nancy have called it. I think it's a very dangerous si tua tion.
Almost all of the people here tonight have young chi ldren who are going to be
growing up.. . and as more people are moving into the area, they're going to want
to visit their frieoos am the only place to walk is in a very dangerous zone.
r think for purposes of safety we should consider maybe another proposal in
narrowing the road area down and with a curb in it aoo put in some sort of
sidewalk off to the side. Now without increasing easements, this has been done
on the Lake of the Isles where they were forced because there just wasn't any
room to go, to be able to create, take the same ease~ent, narrow the road down,
decrease the speed 1 imi t, put in a sidewalk aoo narrow the tar wi th 1 i ttle bump
outs in the road where you could park for a stretch of a 100 feet or so. Just
park in certain sections so you don't have this problem of a stream of cars or
unsafe op;?ning and closing of doors from parked cars. This gentleman over here
mentioned the problem of children not going between cars and that. Well, by
sp:lcing the p:lrking areas, you can easily get because there's a lot of open
space between them. I realize there's some problems maybe getting the State to
agree with something like this because we already paid the money but I think
maybe we ought to just go to them am admit that thing's a bad design and we
want to improve it. The residents are in favor of it and find creative ways to
be able to finance it as cheaply as we possibly can. As long as the objectives
are met aoo it's making a safe passage, I think we'll all agree, or get some
agreement to what useage it actually is going to be or is. Since the road
project was proposed 2 years ago, there's a lot more residents there. I think
they should have more voice into the use of it. So we'd be able to get, design
it properly for what the residents feel is a good and proper design. r really
feel that this solves the safety problems and it also would solve the super
high\'laY feeling that people get from looking at this road. ~'E basically took a
dirt road and converted it into a beautiful highway. It is straight. It's
snooth. It's got curves. It's better looking than Galpin Blvd. or Powers.
People are going to use it as a passage between the two roads and all the way to
TH 41 and I think that's a real mistake. r think we should encourage it as a
comnunity street and make it look like one, work like one and be a safe one. I
don't think it should look like a passage street with this dividing a cornnunity
up. And an unsafe one at that so that's my opinion.
Councilman Johnson: Mr. M:iyor, I believe Eric's come up with an j nteresting
Alternate #26 or whatever on this. With his basic plan, I think some of his
numbers are a li ttle mixed up on his drawing but wi th his basic plan, instead of
having to put a full 8 foot side bump out on p:lrking, you'd only need about a 4
foot bump out on parking and you'd have the 34 foot width of travel space at the
parking area. We would sti 11 have a 6 foot trail on the north side. I like
his idea of trying to separate the trail. The method of separating may not be
to bui Id a full concrete or raised area. It may be just to run a beam of, a
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Ci ty Counci 1 Meeti ng - F( .1ary 27, 1989
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little seam of asphalt like our little islaoos except for not as big as an
island to separate the traffic from the people. I think the cost consideration
here v~uld be considerably less. We ~uld solve the problems of the people on
the north side saying they don't want an off-street trail because that impinges
more into their yard. By providing a couple of the cut outs at the proper
locations, the cost of the cut outs are going to be half of what they used to be
because they're only half as big now. We could put more cut offs in there for
parking. By having a slight separation, by having a curb between the'walking
area and the driving area, it ~uld be a safer walking area ?nd there are kids
walking on that street. Thank you Eric. I appreciate looking at this. I think
this is an al ternati ve that needs to be looked into a' li ttle closer. . when it
canes out, it's much less expensive than the $47,000.00 to $60,000.00. It may
be a little more expensive because I ~uld like to put something to keep the
cars to where they don't come over into the walking area to where we have ita
little safer. That maintains the trail. It might work.
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Joe Moran: I'd like to build on what you just said. I think the idea of the
bu:np in the highway along this multiple use route is a very good one indeed. I'm
also concerned for the safety of our children.
Councilman Johnson: It'd be on the other side. It'd be on the parking side.
Joe Moran: This ~uld be the multiple use route for traffic for the trail
system.
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Councilman Johnson: In Eric's version, the bump outs ~lIOuld be on the south
side.
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Joe Moran: In Eric's version there were bump outs for parking but I'd like to
call your attention to the fact that at the top of the hill at L3ke Lucy Road
after the construction, the road was raised about 6 or 8 feet. When I first
bought the property there, t:1is ~vas from the gravel road down to my property was
a nice li ttle slope of about 3 or 4 feet and now it's a 9 foot cl iff. 'Ihere
~uld be no way you could put a bump out there or on the property on ei ther side
of it. So the bump out idea probably isn't feasible in this area but I really
do like the idea of having sane separation between the mul tiple use route and
the traffic.
Councilman Johnson: The bump out will be the where the parking will be. That's
what the bump out's for. At the point where you're going to have parking.
Joe Moran: I was referring to the raised hump that you talked about rather than
a raised sidewalk that would be put in for Pedestrians.
Councilman Johnson: On your version of it, I'm not going to drop it down to 4
foot. 4 foot isn't even enough for a residential sidewalk. We have to keep
that 6 and then go for a variance from the State to allow for parking at 6 on
your version of it because we ~uld be down to less than 34 feet.
Eric Rivkin: You could buy an casement, just 4 feet on the edges of the bump
outs for the sidewalk. In other words, you don't have to extend it to 40 feet
.all the way. Just in the areas where the bump outs are. That might be added so
you have enough passage for bikers on the road and correct me if I'm wrong but
is it illegal to have biking on a sidewalk?
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Ci ty Council Meeting - ..:ebruary 27, 1989
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Councilman Johnson: I'm not worried about the biking because this is a wide
enough street for the bikers are compatible with the cars. I'm worried about
the walkers.
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Eric Rivkin: 24 feet is enough for bikers and cars?
Councilman Johnson: Yes.
Eric Rivkin: It is? Okay.
Joe Moran: I want to make one other point. When you think about the on street
parking, we're not imagining a whole stream of parked cars on the side of this
road. Most of us have plenty of parking already except in the rare instances
where we'd have vistors for Christmas or Thanksgiving or things like that where
we'd overflow and then we'd need to have something for people on rare occasions.
Councilman Johnson: Can we do parking by permit only?
Mayor Chmiel: Anyone else wishing to address?
M'3rk Lewis: Mark Lewis at 1771 Ringneck. I've been here since April. I read
an article about this street when it was paved over and the people complained
that lived there about the cost. The street's fine. Leave the street alone. I
use it. The cost of all this is not going to be paid by everyone that is not in
favor although we have no choice because we live here. The people that live on
the street are complaining of the cost of changing everything. There's joggers
on there. There's bikers. There's walkers. The street is not dangerous. The
drivers are dangerous. There's no street that's dangerous. lmat's the speed
limit? It can't be a highway if it's 35.
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Larry Kerber: 30 and 35. Half of it is 30 and the other half is 35.
Mark Lewis: I use the street in the morning at 5:30 on a nice day in the
morning when I jog and in the evening I'm out and there's no problem with the
traffic. The problem I see right now is all the construction in CUrry Hills?
Curry Farms? That's where the problem is right now. I don't think that the
cost of changing it is going, we're making all these proposals to change it is
worth taking apart"a street that's already fine. You can park on one side.
Maybe that's a compromise. Park on one side of it and leave one side open.
Thank you.
Larry Kerber: My name is Larry Kerber. I have property at the corner of Lake
Lucy and Powers Blvd.. I agree, our street is wide enough now. It's a 36 foot
road. It's wider than any road leading to it or from it. It's the widest road
there. It's wider than CR 17, CR 117. It's almost 50% wider than the roads in
Pheasant Hills and CUrry Farms. Those roads accommodate parking on either side,
two way traffic, biking, jogging, whatever they ~ant. This road is, like
I said, almost 50% wider than that. I can't believe we can't work parking on
one side alone arrl still accomnodate bikers arrl joggers. It's just a 'Hide
enough road. The speed limit is low enough. '!he visibi.1ity, everything was
supposed to be increased when they redid it so the road just has to accomnadate
this. I can't believe we can't cane up with a solution for it with the road we
have. Another thing I'd like to point out. This parking issue is not just
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City Cound 1 Meeting - Fet .Jry 27, 1989
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sanething for the Tichy's. There are people all along that road need parking.
There's Palmers on the end. Babbi ts. All the way down to the other end where
my property is with the 3 little houses on the corner. They park on it
virtually every night one of the cars is out there. One of them does
babysitting. Another one has another occupation where they've got a car home
and just about every night I go by there I'll see a car in the street so it's
not just for Tichys. Everybody needs the parking occasionally. We're the
people who p3id for the road. We're also the people who had the parking and I
think we should have it back.
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Kathy Kerber: I'm Kathy Kerber and I guess what I'd like to remind the Council
is right now at this time CUrry Farms has scxnething like 6 acres, 7 acres park
in it right now? Am the Pheasant Hills is looking at a possible parkland of
11 to 12 acres right in the northeast corner of that subdivision and I guess I
don't really see where the trails is something that should be in line because
the kids are going to be playing in the parks. And I, myself would much rather
see the money spent putting playground equip:nent in those p3rks so the kids play
in the park rather than riding alongside of a road without an adult or walking
in a street without their parent. They belong playing in a park and I guess one
thing that really upsets me is my daughters and I ride Lake Lucy Road. We have
for the past 10 years. We walk it. We ride bikes. We've never had a problem.
We've always been able to park alongside of our property and I guess I'm just
really irri tated by the fact that some people represented their concerns at the
last Park and Rec meeting. My understanding at this last Council meeting, this
was tabled to t.l1is meeting and yet they discussed it anyway and the people there
concerning their problems were people that lived at least within a half a mile
off of Lake Lucy Road. I believe children belong playing in parks and not along
roads.
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(There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.)
Jim Mady: ...1M2 haven't had a problell. Thank God. Knock on wood. A child
hasn't been killed in our city. We're trying to prevent that right now. If we
wait until that happens, we're all the poorer for it. If there is a way to do
this, and I understand tax dollars ar::: very tight but we need to investigate
this plan. I ask the Council to allow the Park and Rec Corrrnission to review
this item. Your last meeting you wouldn't let us review it because you needed
to go forward. Time was of the essence. Mr. Mayor, your motion tonight is to
table it again. I believe it's important enough that we need to get heads
together and get staff to review this item and let's get a good design that
everyone can live with, especially the children in our comnunity.
Councilman Boyt: Excuse me Mr. Hayor but it would sean to me that it would be
appropriate to rear from people who haven't spoke at all before ~ hear from
people the second am third time.
Mayor Chmiel: we'll keep the meeting open for anyone who wishes to address
anything at all Bill.
Nancy Tichy: I would like to just cooment on what Mr. Mady had said with
reference to the Park and Rec Corrmission meeting that was held on February 14th.
. I was informed via phone conversation and by letter from the Park and Rec
Cornnission that the bike trail issue would not be addressed am it would be
addressed by the engineering department. On February 13th at the City Council
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meeting, I believe the City Council voted to have W=stwood Professional Services
do a study on alternatives regarding bike and parking useage. The Council
decided that Park and Rec would not meet on this issue. On February 14th at the
Park and Rec Co:rrnission meeting, discussion was initiated by Park and Rec which
was against the vote of the Council and I believe this was unethical.
Tom Steinkamp: Were you at the Park and Rec meeting?
Nancy Tichy: No, but I have the Minutes and I can read you...
Tom Steinkamp: Were the Minutes recorded Minutes?
Nancy Tichy: Yes.
Torn Steinkamp: Because there was some ccmnent about the trail system in regards
to the Pheasant Hills request for parkland. I think I was the one that brought
it up.
Nancy Tichy: M3ry Cordell was...
Torn Steinka~p: But at any rate, I don't know that from what I took from the
Park and Rec Co:rmission meeting was not so much that, yeah they were unhappy I
think that they M:ren't involved in it but their main thing was, hey you people
that want these trails, that use these trails, to stand up and speak your mind
or know about it. I guess I read the Council meeting agenda and there was
something to the effect of parking on rake Lucy Road but by gosh if I would have
knovm that the elimination of a trail was about to be voted on, I'd have shown
up so I think it's unfair to the Council not to inform the people about what's
going on or what's potentially going to be voted on. I guess I find it hard to
believe that without any input from any of the other side of the story that it
came that close to a vote to eliminate the trails completely. I don't have a
problem with parking on this street but I don't want to give up, I don't see it,
to give up the trails in lieu of that. If M: can come up with some sort of a
compromise where M: can have parking and we can have a trail, I'm for that. I'm
not for, I can understand your position but I think parking and maybe you can
correct me if I'm wrong, I think a bike trail on the street you have to have a
bike trail both directions then don't you? Okay, so if you eliminate it off of
one side of the street, don't you eliminate it off of both sides of the street
unless you make it an off street bike trail? Is that correct? So really what
you're talking about is if you're going to have a bike trail, you're going to
have to have it off street or you're going to have it some way divided from the
street. Now if you're going to have parking on one side and i3 small median like
the gentleman suggested and then your bike trail, that's fine and I think off
street would be the best but that may be costly too.
Councilman Johnson: Can I ask you a question? Are you for only a bike trail
or . . .
Tom Steinkamp: I think it should be multipurpose. Bike or walking or what have
you.
Councilman Johnson: Because to me bike trail and walking aren't terribly
compatible if you get the helmeted 10 speeders or 12 speeders running down
through there. I think that the bikers, a trail that a kids on and a 2 wheeler
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City Counci 1 Meeting - Fc lary 27, 1989
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with training wheels is something different. What lM:luld you feel about having,
not a bike trail but just a multiple use trail on one side of the street arrl
parking on the other?
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Tom Steinkallp: Yes, I don't have any problem with that. I guess it was my
understanding that if you eliminate it on one side you eliminate both sides.
Counci11lan Johnson: Only if it's a bike trail.
Tom Steinkamp: It's a bike trail now, is that right?
Counc i 11lan Johnson: Right.
Jim Mady: It's a bike lane.
Larry Kerber: Now does that allow walkers and joggers or is that specifically
for bikes?
Councilman Johnson: I have no idea.
Larry Kerber: I know the bikers don't because they never use it.
Kathy Kerber: Jay, the State Engineers did tell me that if you put the parking
in, they can still serve bikers and walkers on that same side that the cars are
parked in. That is not a problem.
Kathy Kerber: As any other road does.
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Tom Steinkamp: But I don't think that's the way to do it.
Tom Steinkallp: I think you're really then, you're just making a parking lane
that you can ride bikes on.
Councilman Johnson: In drivers ed one of the big things you always look at is
the ball coming out fro.l1 behirrl the car. The car just hides the vision of the
kid that's there which if you have kids walking along, you don't want to give
than something to hide behirrl.
Tom Steinkarnp: I think you do that, with putting in parking and not having some
means for a trail or a bike lane or walking or mul tiple use or whatever you want
to call it, I think you're just compounding the problem then. You're going to
have the people out there. Pheasant Hills, it's safe to say that Pheasant Hills
park, if it does go through, it isn't going to happen for 5 years anYWaYs and
we're goin:J to want to use CUrry Farms park. If Lake Lucy Road ever goes to TH
41, we're going to want to go to the park there and I think you people are too.
I think to make it more dangerous than it is is foolish. I'd like to see some
way that you can park on it but I don't want it, not at the expense of giving up
a trail or a bike lane or whatever you want to call it.
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Mary Cordell: Hi, my name is Mary Cordell and I live at 1730 Lake Lucy Lane and
our property does abut Lake Lucy Road. It goes down to Lake Lucy Road. I've
been listening to a lot of the different proposals tonight and a lot of the
different opinions on the bike lanes or the multiple use trails. I'm definitely
in favor of keeping some sort of a multiple use trail and I guess the proposal
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City Council Meeting
ebruary 27, 1989
that struck me as meeting my needs the best and possibly the needs of the ~
comnuni ty was Eric's. Tha t ~uld narrOvl the road which make it seem li ke not
such a high~vay going through a purely residential area and putting sane type of
a barrier for multiple use. For biking. Whatever and then having the, I don't
know what they're called, the little butt outs in the road for the parking.
That ~uld seem to me, it ~uld meet the needs of the people that ~uld need
parking and it ~uld also provide a safer road for our children to bike on or to
walk on and retain our trail system.
Ej Hasek: My name is Ed Hasek. I'm a resident of Olanhassen. I live at 65713
Kirkwood Circle. I'm also a member of the Park Board. I guess there's been a
lot of discussion tonight about design. I guess I'm really impressed at the
amount of engineers v.e have here in town. I also called MnDot today arrl talked
to a Mr. Chuck Weisenbaum who is the head of the State Aid Section Deparbnent at
MnDot. I asked him I guess for a number of options that might be available to
us on this trail. As a member of the Park board it's important to me that v.e
keep a trail of sane sort through this alignment to eventually connect to
MIS school and to the County p:irk over on Lake Minnewashta. He informed me that
if v.e were to put parking on one side of the road we'd have to completely
eliminate any sort of a trail on the road surface itself. It takes 36 feet to
get 2 lanes of traffic and parking into a State Aid design road so the option of
putting some sort of a trail on with parking has been eliminated if v.e should so
choose to do that. I asked then about other designs that might fit into a 36
foot wide road surface and he said there is one alternative but they frown on
even implementing it and the reason for that is because how far the center line
has to be moved. If you're to put parking on one side and two lanes of traffic, a
the center line now is off center on the road. In instances where you have snow _
on the road surface and an unfamiliar driver, they're 9riving down the road
thin:dng that the middle of the road is the center line of the road when in fact
j t' s not. That's why they hesi tate and really frown on even approving that and
they'll only approve it in the worse case scenario if there are no other
options. I guess related to design, I would like to suggest that perhaps the
City's engineering staff and any engineering consultants they have, sit down
with the State, as long as the State is funding this thing 61% and we'd like to
keep that funding, and see if they can't come up with a design that would work
for both of us. The thing that I liked about this particular project, the way
that it v.ent in was the fact that v.e got the State to pay for a part of our
trail system. Something that is difficult, it going to be difficult for this
City to do. Living on the other side of Lake Minnewashta, we have no parks and
v.e have:no trails. We have nothing over there. All v.e have are our
neighborhood streets to play on. We have no way of getting from Cathcart Park
-down to our neighborhood on the side street on any sort of a trail system. We
- have to cross TH 7 to get to that park. The next closest park is over in
. 'Minnewashta Heights and that's just a small neighborhood park and v.e have to
travel down '!'Ii 7 to get to it. If v.e wanted to go down to the Arboretum, \ve
~uld have to go about 2 miles do\~ Minnewashta Parkway. Talk about a narrow
street with no trails marked on it whatsoever so as a member of the Park Board
a~ I v.o~ld certainly hope that the Council would consider the possibility, if
thIS traIl were to come off of this alignment, they ~uld consider the
possibility of working in my neighborhood before they would look at speming
mo:e dO~lars putting a trail into this alignment when v.e've already got on in
thIS a17gnment. I've got a lot of irri tated neighbors out there that forced me ~~aonto thlS, p~an~i.ng comnission to keep harping on the issue of getting a trai.l
am a parK m my neighborhood. W? haven't been able as a park board to fund
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dollar one to even study the possibil i ty out there yet am now we're talking
about maybe putting in another trail on this alignment and spending $45,0'00.00
to $65,000.00 in addition to what's already been spent out there. If we were to
change the design, I was informed by QlUck W2isenbaum that we'd lose our State
Aid funding \vhich to me would sean to irrlicate that the residents who p3id for
the first 31% would then be burdened with an additional 69%. Either that or the
rest of the residents in town would have to pick that up and I'm sure that if
you brought the issue before the rest of the residents who are now going to be
paying for that particular road, that they would want to see that trail in place
before they had to p3y for perhaps a road that they don't even use. I think
I have to agree. t think safety is a primary issue in this thing and that was
the concern that we had when we put the trail in in the first place. 6 feet is
a minimum design standard by the State for each side. You can't have it on only
one side because of bicycle traffic. If you take the bicycle traffic off of it,
then you don't have a multi-purpose trail at that point so I stronly urge the
Council to consider leaving in place the trail before they look at any other
options. The one other thing I wanted to mention was the bump outs. I guess by
State Aid standards, I don't believe that the bump outs, and it's not a question
that I asked specifically Jay but I think it's one that needs to be asked, I
don't think that they 'MJuld approve bump outs but I'm not sure of that. '!hat's
something that I think the engineers should talk about a little bit. There was
a comnent made about TH 101 being narrower than this. Yes, it's narrower than
this simply because it's a rural section road. It's no.t an urban section road
and it ~oes under completely different design standards and it also doesn't have
trails on other sides so there is no comparison between TH 101 am this
particular piece of road. '!he traffic counts on that road as of 1987 as counted
by the City were 587 ADT. That's average daily trips. That's simply a car
going on direction or another on that road. It's projected to carry 1,000 by
the time that it's through and it's projected to carry more than that if Lake
Lucy Road should be extended to TH 101 so it joes qualify as a collector and
maybe even a high collector by the time the whole thing is built and collectors
are those areas that are looked at, and when Met Council considers alignment for
trail systei11S so we're not out of line thinking about thj s corridor for a trail.
I guess the only question is under which design and again I'd like to stress
that I'd like to see it stay there so we can spend the money that it :llight cost
to put that trail off of the road and service some other areas of the city where
residents like myself and my neighbors have no recreational facilities
whatsoever. Thank you.
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Eric Rivkin: I agree. We need a trail syste:n but we need a safe trail system.
If you're going to have trails, when people think of trails they think well I
can walk from one park to the next or my kid can bicycle from one park to the
next with his friends and my son and daughter can go visit their friends in
other parts of the neighborhood and stuff and I like the idea of the trail
system. I appauld it. I think it's wonderful that someday there will be
something that will link all these beautiful parts of the city with one another
but we have to do it safely. Putting pedestrians, small children out onto the
road surface is foolish. {oVe should not do it. We can not do it. If it's the
State's standards, then the State standard is bad. Okay? And \~ don't have to
follow that. We just do what's right and that's what I want to say.
Ted Coey: I'm Ted Coey. I Eve on Lake Lucy Road and I really don't have an ax
to grind as far as the parking because I'm 800 feet off the road so I'm kind of
looking at this from both sides and we've wasted over an hour here talking back
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City Council ~1eeting - r'ebruary 27, 1989
aJX1 forth on an issue th::lt should be settled in about 5 minutes. It's obvious
that what Council's got themselves into and this is the reason you guys are
si tting up here and not somebody else because the doedoes th3t voted for this
thing about 3 years ago and got this road in place which we didn't want have got
us in this mess. ~oJe're sitting with a road that the resioents on the road did
not want and if we would have had the road we wanted, we would have probably
paid about the same assessnents. ~';e wouldn't have had the State involved and
you wouldn't be messing around with all this stuff because you could have put
your trail off the road. Now I hop:! you learned something from this because we
were telling you this for 3 years. D:m't get the State involved. We don't want
this road. It's too wide and people are coming back from all the neighborhooos
and saying the same thing. '!he thing's a free\'lay. '!he mess we're in is because
the Council didn't listen to what we were saying and now you've got a problan
wi th the highway out there. You've got people doing 50 mph, 60 mph on the road
because it was designed that way. You've got a trail systan that is on the
road. It shouldn't be. It should be off the road and you're sitting with a
situation where you've got all the residents going back and forth against each
other and it's stupid. So let's sit down and try to figure out something
wi thout getting the goo damn State involved. They're already into this too
much. That's \~y we've got all the problems. In the future, if you get in a
neighborhood situation like this, don't use the State money. If you get your
hand out and they get into you and now you I re stuck with all their rules.
That's my observ3tion.
Al Harvey: Al Harvey, 1430 Lake Lucy Road. I agree with Ted. We petitioned
against the road. wi: indicated we did not like our assessnent. At that time
there wasn't anyone of these people from the development come and say oh, we'd
be glad to pick up our fair share. I would like to see the Council consider
re-evaluating our assessments. If this is such an important thing to all these
new develoJ;rnents, apparently they didn't devote enough lam for the parks in
their areas, I would like to recorrrnend the Counci 1 reconsider our assessments
and realign them. It's definitely a benefit to this City. It's definitely a
benefit to the Park and Rec. I'm satisfied with what we got now only because
we've got it. We voted against it. We petitioned against it. It came to deaf
ears on the Council. They listened to us a little bit and come time to vote,
they didn't know us so that's why some of them aren't here and some of them that
are still here ranember this going on. I even brought a piece of blacktop that
we did have a blacktop and I gave it to the Mayor showing that it was a blacktop
road at one time. But the heavy construction tore it all apart. We would much
rather have a 24 foot wide road with parking on either side and then if you
wanted to put a trail on the side, you could have. Now like Ted said, we're
'stuck wj,th what we've got but needless to say, the residents are not happy from
what we got stuck with and the Council did not listen to us and I would suggest
that maybe you go back and if the City wants to do what they want to do, pay for
it. Don't stick us residents. We're sick with it and we've had enough of it so
that's where it's at.
Tom Crocker: Tom Crocker, 6441 White Dove and I also own some property off of
Lake Lucy Road on Stellar Court. I think it's been expressed that there's a lot
of unhappy people with the Lake Lucy Road decision but unfortunately that's what
we're stuck with. I think the recorrmendation that was ffiadeby a couple of
J?9Ople that the City really take a look at this and try and learn something from
It. Try to listen to the citizens. Let's not compourrl one problan with
another. I think the gentleman from the Park and Planning Comnissi,on, have than
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City Council Meeting -. ruary 27, 1989
take a look at that or maybe there's a city engineering staff. I'm not certain
which is the right group but I think the Council is in a li ttle over their head
here. You need to get some facts. You need to get some figures. Obviously \oJe
have very high taxes. One of the highest taxed comnunities in the State,
particularly in the metro area so money is an issue. One thing that wasn't
mentioned, I have children that are a little older than 4 or 5 or 6 am they do
ride their bikes on that trail and I ride a bike on the trail so I'm in favor of
the trail. It's unfortunate that people that live along the road lost their
parking rights and maybe there is someway to work out with the State some
restricted parkiI1g' arrangement for certain times over holidays or at night or
something ljke that when most people aren't biking anyway. Later at night when
the safety conditions aren't there but I think the main issue is that the
Council needs to listen. Needs to study and doesn't need to react imnediately
to this concern. The signs have been on the road for a while for no parking and
a little study to try to figure out a good metqod to this would be time well
spent in my opinion.
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Mayor Chmiel: Anymore ccmnents?
CounciLman Boyt: M:1ybe we can comnent and that might stir them to further
remarks.
Councilman Johnson: I think we've heard most of the re:llarks Bill. I think it
would be nice for each of us to have a comnent but I think we've got more things
going on the agenda and move thjs along.
Hayor Chmiel: I made a comnent previously that I think we should table this
until we have the remaining council person here so there would be 5 people to
come up with conclusions and I'd like to make that into a motion that we table
thi s to March 13th.
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Councilman Boyt: Before W2 look at a second to that, I would like to make a
co~ent. First, W2 are under some tjme pressure. It may be a little hard to
see that now but when July comes along and we don't have this well connection in
place, we're all goi'Y:J to pay the price for this delay. I think that this trail
is a compromise at best. I assume that the previous Council and I wasn't here
when they voted on it, but I assume that they placed this trail on the road as a
compromise. If you look at Kerber Blvd., they did exactly the same thing and we
now have off street trail there because it was not safe. It was something that
an adult could use but it was nothing that a parent would trust their child to
be on. So it's an attempt to reduce the jmpact of neighboring properties and to
minimize the cost for the construction and work out some kind of a balance.
I've heard the figure about 69% but I can tell you that the City Council gave
the residents the maxlinum allowable State credit for that road. It's my
understanding that that's 80%. I don't know what it is. I won't stand up and
tell you absolutely it is but when \oJe conducted the assessnent hearings, that
was the figure I was given and I do know one thing for certain, it was the
max imum amount allowed. It happens to be a collecter. If I was 1i viI1g' on Lake
Lucy Road, I wouldn't have wanted it to go in either because a collecter means
traffic and there aren't many people that choose to live on a road that has high
traffic by choice. I wasn't here to vote on that so I couldn't tell you how I
would have voted. I can see the pressure on the Ci ty to have more east/west
connecters. As it would turn out, this is the one that got chosen. I don't
know if that was the right choice but the trail was put on there as a means, as
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City Council Meeting - february 27, 1989
was mentioned. It was an economical "NaY to do something that needed to be done
arrl it was a compromise. It \vas not the safest choice. It was an attempt to
balance the need both to limit the intrusion on the property along there and to
try and give the people a safe means of walking or riding in the area. Now
Mayor, you campaigned against the trail referendum on economic priori ties as
I heard several times arrl not because you said you were against the trail am I
think we need to make it clear that this is not an economic issue. The trail is
already in am it's already paid for so I don't think: we can use economics to
say we should take it out of there so that means it's an issue of public safety
am general welfare am how do we balance those two together arrl that's why
everybody's here. Wa all have a slightly different opinion about how that
balance should fall. The trail is part of the comprehensive trail plan. You
. can call it a proposal. You can call it a plan. Regardless, it's been approved
by the City Council am it is in writing and I'm sure you've seen a copy of it.
Now we need some way, I would maintain, to allow people to bike and walk to get
to the parks in the area. Eventually in this case, maybe out to Minnewashta and
the City p3rk down in Lake Ann. There needs to be some way to do that. So how
do we balance the need against the request for the neighbors to have parking?
The City has gone through this in other places. This is not a new issue. You
can see any number of places in which the City has posted no parking and those
people have lost the right to park in street in front of their house. Generally
those have been for safety reasons and I would maintain that that's what they're
doing now. They're saying that this is a safety issue and as it's currently
drawn up, doesn't allow parking. Now, if we put parking on there, and given the
current road without changes, I don't think anybody is going to say that that
improves the safety situation. It does improve the parking problem so let's
look at that for a minute. Not being able to park in front of your house is an
inconvenience. No one would argue with that. I've always preferred off road
trails. One of the things I campaigned on 2 years ago was I thought the Ci ty
Council was very short sighted in putting trails on the road and 1'11 never vote
to put one on the road. It's money saved but it's risk assu~ed. Now if 'Ne look
at the engineering report which was done by a third party, they say there's only
one family on all Lake Lucy Road that absolutely needs some additional parking.
Now we can argue they don't know what they're talking about, whatever and you
can say that about any engineering report but that's \vhat they said. As it
would happen, the Tichey's told me last night th:it they have b/o 4-wheel drive
cars and that getting up and down their parking area is not the proble.ll. As
,Brian told me last night, the problen is that when they want to have people
over, guests over, . they need additional parking. The City has alt.-lays worked
with the Sheriff's department to allow additional parking in those situations so
it's not a matter that parking is absolutely not available. It's a matter of
.inconvenience because clearly it's an inconvenience to have to call the
Sheriff's Department and tell them I'm going to be parking out there. I'm going
-.to have guests. Don't give then a ticket but it's possible to do it that way.
So how do ....12 balance the inconvenience and the need to make a phone call against
the trail which at best is not the safest trail? Do we come back and spend
$47,000.00, assuming we're not going to take out the wall and tree, we'll figure
some way aroum that, to put in an off road trail? Now Ed, it wouldn't come out
of Park and Rec money and it's not money that we could take and spend on a trail
someplace else. As it works out, j t comes out of \.oJater money. Ironic that
water money would build a trail but in this case, because we're tearing up the
groum anYwaY, that's a possibility. -I don't think we've ever asked this town
if they want a trail system and maybe that would be a legitimate thing to put on
the vote sometime. Do you want a trail system? But there hasn't been a vote
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other than by the Council and the Park and Rec Department. I personally can't
imagine that a majori ty of the citizens in this town VwDuld say that we don't
want trails on our collecters. Even the people that voted, many of the people
lNho voted against the last referendum told me they voted against it because they
didn't want in front of their house. I had one guy on L3ke Minnewashta who said
to me, I don't want it on Minnewashta. I never had it and I don't think it's
dangerous but I'll bet he's not in the maj or i ty. I think if we can figure out a
way to put them on the collecters, the thing will pass because there's
definitely a safety need there but nobody has ever voted to remove the trails
once they've already been built. So I think we should leave the trail as it is
on the road. Now we've heard some options. From what I've gathered in talking
to staff, those options VwDn't fly through the State and the system. That we run
into problems when we try to put a bike route on one side of the road. I don't
know about the problems when we put a ridge in there and I agree that that ~uld
certainly make for study and worthwhile study but we've got a choice of spending
$2,600.00 in building the pad, and by the way I don't think the City ~hould
spend that money, or we can spend $47,000.00 and build an off road trail. The
parking pad really doesn't meet the Tichey's need for additional guest parking
because it only has enough room for 3 spots so that's not going to work. So how
do v~ strike the balance? For my part, we can't lose the trail. Give me one of
the options that the engineering department and the State says they'll accept
and I can live with that but if it comes down to pulling the trails off the
road, I can tell you that I'll vote against it. I may not vote in the majority
but I'll never vote to pull a trail off that, we've already built, off a road in
Chanhassen.
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Mayor Chmiel: Bill, when you say built a trail. Basically there's not a trail.
It's just the markings that are on that street right?
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Councilman Boyt: Designated and paid for and the road was built to that width
to accommodate it. vfLlat VwDuld you call that?
Mayor Chmiel: I still would call it just a marked street. Basically it's not a
trail.
Councilman Boyt: 'dell, we disagree.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other corrrnent? Jay do you want to say something? Quickly
please.
CounciLman Johnson: Yes. I think Bill said it :nore eloquently than I will.
I'm for the trail. I ~uld like to move this to Park and Rec for them to review
it officially. Trails is under their jurisdiction. They should be having a say
so. They're our advisory board. I think we should ask then. I do not think
that this is going to delay, the only way this delays the contract on the
watermain is, I don't think it delays it anyway to tell you the truth because
this is, the $47,000.00 to $60,000.00 off street trail is an option that can be
added at any time to the contract. ve already authorized them to go out for bid
and that's of the utmost importance is to get that watermain connected. I'm in
agreement. I think there's several options we need to continue looking at. I'm
not sure if we need this designated as a bike trail. A bike route is a
different designation which allows you to ride a bike, it designates and warns
. people that there are bicycles on the same street as there are cars. Hopkins
has bike routes throughout the City and the street is no different. It's just a
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City Council Meeting
ebruary 27, 1989
bike route. I would like to see it look<:?d at to whether the State Y.Duld look to
a variance under certain areas of this. Certain small sections to allow parking
on a variance on one side. Take out the south side trail designation. Bike
trails. Take the bike trail designation off. Hopefully put a little chunk of
asphalt down to kind of a free standing curb to separate the two areas that we
can have as almost an off street trail. It Y.Duldn't be what I'd want. I'd want
the off street but like you said, this is a compromise that was made a long time
ago. I think there's room for more study on this. I don't think we need to
knee jerk on this tonight or even the last time. I think we came real close, it
was very scary last meeting arrl I think we need some more study and I think that
that study should not be done at the Council level. I think it can be done at
Park and Rec level and we want to attend a P~rk and Rec meeting and give our
comnent to Park and Rec and talk to the people. More, I think it needs to be
better advertised as a trail issue and not a parking issue only. But the safety
issue there is my main concern. If we can accomnodate parking, I think that as
far as the cost of putting the bump outs, the Ci ty caused the problem by
extending the street further to the south. I think primarily if the Tichey's, I
think a lot of their property, the street went their way. In my recollection
of driving the street a little bi t, I didn't drive ita lot when it was gravel.
I don't reme.nber very many people parking along it. It was pretty narrow. You'd
take your car into your own risk if you parked along it. You'd get side swiped.
Rocks hitting it as the people drove by so I don't think th3t there was that
much parking before. If you wanted to park it, you might have parked" it there.
Especially at a party or something but I'm for moving this to Park and Rec like
we tried last time and letting them look this over in the next couple weeks and
come back to us sometime in April because I don't think we're ready to decide on
thi s in March.
Counci111an vvorkman: I don't think there's any doubt about what Park and Rec is
going to say about this trail. At all. They're the ones that, and I do have
the Minutes, they're the ones that brought it up. They intended to bring it up
the whole time, you know, and they did. "Mary, since you brought up Lake Lucy
Road, I don't know if you attened the Council meeting last night but they
discussed taking the trails off Lake Lucy Road and I'd just like to say if any
of you live out there you might want to let the Council know if you don't agree
with what they're doing." We know wh3t the Park and Ree's going to do.
Councilman Boyt: Would you prefer that they didn't inform them?
Councilman Workman: No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.
Jim Mady: That's what you did to those people...
Mayor Chmiel: Just a minute. It's here at the Council. We're dis~ussing it.
Thank you.
Councilman Work:nan: I think it'd be fine. I think it'would be fine if they
Y.Duld discuss it. I think the information that they're going to come back to us
with is exactly what Bill has said so eloquently tonight. If they'd like to
discuss it and it's not going to tie things up, that's fine. They can discuss
it for an hour and a half too. That's fine. I don't see what it's going to
accomplish but if that's what they want. They want to get it on their docket
and talk about it for an hour and a half or tY.D hours, that's fine but I think
we know exactly where. It's not a negative to like trails. The Ticheys have
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Ci ty Counc i 1 Meet; ng - F .uary 27, 1989
said they use the trail. They like the trail. That's great. They ride their
bi~<es on it. They use it. People all along it. That's fine but nobody has
said, nobody here tonight that has said keep the trail has said this is my plan
for the p3rking so the Ticheys and everybody else can p3rk. That's the problem.
It is a parking problen. That's the question. How can we get those people sane
parking? If we decide to go with an off road trail, I can tell you that
Elizabeth Ann Glaccum will be here and going nuts. There's going to be a loser
here somehow no matter what. I have told people on the phone, I'm not excited
about removing a trail. If we can keep trails, let's keep trails. Let's work
something out. I think it was made to believe at the Council meeting that
night, we're going to yank them off. That's it. Too bad. And if you're
misguided and I don't think that was ever the point. I don't think it was scary
at all but there are people here with rights as far as their property. The
Ticheys also had to spend excessive amounts of dollars to redo their entire
driveway because of the level of the road as constructed was higher than they
were told. They spent more than even the assessed values. So it's a tough
posi tion for then. I would hope aoo I'm still staooing where I hop2 we can work
out a trail situation. I talked to G:lry Warren today. He said that
realistically an off road trail on the north side could go between the road aoo
the retaining wall so it would be $47,000.00 instead of $63,000.00 or
$68,0013.00. I'd prefer to see the money spent for Well #5 as I iooicated that
night. This is a unique situation. This is a unique road. It is putting
unique stress on property owners who live on the road.
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Councilinan Johnson: What's your solution?
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Councilman Workman: That's the point. That's the point. What's the solution
and that's what I'm still trying to, that's why I want it tabled so we can
figure out a solution. If we want to table it tonight and seoo it to Park and
Rec, that's fine too. Maybe they can come up with a solution.
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Councilman Johnson: There's been some new ideas come up out of the audience.
Councilman Work;nan: I like the idea of Eric Rivkin. Making it :nore narrow.
It is incredibly difficult to go down that road at or near 30 mph. That is a
chore. I don't know, if there are people in this road who are allo\'ling their
kids with training wheels to ride their bike on that road, that's scary. That
whi te stripe is protecting nobody on th:lt road. It's a shoulder. They're
riding on the shoulder of the road. It's a cheap iJ!li tation for any kioo of a
trail and somebody is going to get killed on that road with the white stripes
because that's not going to, like I said last time, kids going down that road
ahead of me in a car no where near the trail, right down the center of that east
side hill. It's a difficult situation but I don't think the trail as it is now
is anywhere near adequate. But again, getting back to, we need a solution so
that these people can park also. Again I'11 mention it, these people have had
to put up with thousands of dollars of assessments for this road. '!hey're
putting up with the construction of Pheasant Hills and Curry Farms am the dirt
and everything else. Now the watermain and the possibility of an off street
trail on the north side, which is another situation. Again, I'm for tabling it.
I'll second Don' s motion to table it tonight. I don't think we're going to do
anything with it anyway. If you would like to bring up the motion to seoo it to
Park and Rec, after that I'd vote for it.
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Councilman Boyt: Why don't we do it all in one motioll?
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City Council Meeting - ebruary 27, 1989
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Councilman Workman: Okay. I make the motion that Council...
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CounciL~an Boyt: Refer this to Park and Rec.
Councilman Workman: Don, you have the motion?
Mayor O1rniel: I' 11 withdraw my motion and you can make your motion Tom.
Councilman Workman: Did you want to throw your two cents in?
Mayor O1rniel: No. Go ahead. There's no sense in digressing any further.
Councilman Workman: Let me just add, I'm not against trails anymore than say
Don is other than for the economic reasons. I think we need them. I think
we're going to get them. I think that's fine but let's do it properly.
Councilman Johnson: It's a cost of suburbanization and this town is becoming
suburban.
Mayor O1rniel: Isn't it time now?
CounciLilan Workfnan: The motion is that Council table this action this evening
to serrl it to Park and Rec tomorrow night. For two weeks? 15 days from now?
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Lori Sietsema: OUr next meeting is the 14th of March.
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CounciLllan Johnson: I think they would like to get some more information. Take
a couple v~ks from some of the ideas that have been talked about here.
Councilman vvorkman: I' 11 start my motion over. Hy motion is to tabl~ Council
action this evening and send it to the Park and Rec Corrmission for further
review.
Mayor O1rniel: I' 11 second it.
Councilman vvorkman moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to table action on the Lake Lucy
- Road Trail/Parking issue and to send the issue onto the Park and Recreation
.Comnission for review. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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APPROVE TH 101 DEVELOH1ENT CONCEPTS/STAGING (PAT HALLISEY LOTS 1 AND 2, HIDDEN
VALLEY 2ND ADDITION AND SINCLAIR STATION ACCESS) .
Gary Ehret: I believe the Council has in their packet Figure 2 from our report
arrl the staff cover memo. Essentially what it's dealing with is a staging as we
perceive it based on a number of issues. The need to provide access to
Rosemount. The need to work with MlDot for the TH 5 schedule, etc. but
basically to deal with the staging of Market Blvd. am how it would be
constructed. The staging as we are proposing at this time looks at a three
phase process. The first phase would build Market Blvd. from TH 5 down to what
we refer to as Lake Drive East. That would provide the primary access to the
Rosemount facility. The construction of Phase 1 would be in 1989. That would
e.
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CITY 0 F
CHAHHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
ActIort bY City M.,rt~'~~
Endcrsed~ 4:)W~
MEMORANDUM
M,'tj~flj~~__.
TO:
Don Ashworth, City Manager
Rel&ct~:L-___~_
Dar, ~.L~-~tj
Ilste S:;!:l:nittM t, Cc:nm~sidl
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FROM: Gary Warren, City Engineer
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DATE:
February 22, 1989
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SUBJ: Review Lake Lucy Road Trail/Parking Issue
File No. 88-25
At the February 13, 1989 City Council meeting, staff was directed
to prepare a "mini" feasibility study to address the possibility
of providing off-street parking pads at selected locations along
Lake Lucy Road to address the no parking difficulties encountered
by select properties along Lak~ Lucy Road, in particular the
Brian Tichy property located at 1471 Lake Lucy Road. The
attached report prepared by Westwood Professional Services has
reviewed this issue.
Alternative 3 of the report is the new alternative researched,
which deals with the construction of an off-street parking pad in
front of the Tichy property. The off-street pad could be
constructed to accommodate two vehicles at an estimated cost of
$2,600.00, exclusive of any property/easement acquisition. This
is a similar approach to that utilized in the City of Minnetonka
in areas where topography and parking restrictions limit access
to residential propert~es. While this parking pad area would not
be able to accommodate~the parking demand normally associated
with a residential par'ty,this would address the concerns of the
Tichys as it relates to inclement weather access.
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As noted in the report, Brian Tichy favors Alternate 2 -
construction of the off-street trail. Our field review and
discussions with several other property owners in the area
concluded that this problem is unique to the Tichy property and
that the remaining properties along Lake Lucy Road have access
alternatives available to them such that this construction would
not be required.
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minutes. 1
February 23, 1989.
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Don Ashworth
February 22, 1989
Page 2
The report also reviews the off-road trail option to better
define the likelihood of implementation. As will be remembered,
removal of one bike path from Lake Lucy Road would result in a
30-foot road section. This road section is 4 feet deficient in
width from the State Aid standards published by MnDOT for accom-
modating one-side, on-street parking. It is unknown how MnDOT
would react to this request until a formal variance is applied
for.
As reviewed at the previous City Council meeting, elimination of
both on-street bike paths would provide a 36-foot road width
which would allow the City to establish one-side parking on Lake
Lucy Road without the need for any variance.
Attached is a copy of the Park and Recreation minutes from the
February 14, 1989 meeting where this item was discussed. No
action was taken by the Park and Recreation Commission.
This is the time in the staff report where a recommendation is
normally given. Since this decision goes beyond pure engineering
consideration, I find it difficult and perhaps out of place to
recommend an alternative. What is important is that a decision
needs to be made Monday night if construction is to be included
with the trunk watermain project.
Attachments
1.
February 13, 1989 City Council minutes (see pages 25 through
46 of this agenda packet).
February 14, 1989 Park and Recreation Commission
Report from Westwood Professional Services dated
2.
3.
cc:
Dick Koppy, Westwood
Brian Tichy, 1471 Lake Lucy Road
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14, 1989 - Page 5
i ~ very strongly in favor of this. Particul3rly this parcel...
; - -,Boyt: Mary, since you brought up Lake Lucy Road. r don't know if you
r attended the Council meeting last night but they discussed taking the
J trails off of Lake Lucy Road and I'd just like to say, if any of you live
out there, you might want to let the Council know if you don't agree with
what they're doing or if you agree with it. They'll be discussing it
again in two weeks.
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Torn Steinkamp:
r~king the trail off?
Boyt:
Yes, and changing it to a parking area.
Steinkamp:
Who would want to park along Lake Lucy Road?
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Boyt:
The people who live on Lake Lucy Road.
I Steinkamp: They all have half mile driveways.
Mady: The problem, the way
have a bike trail with bike
car traffic. Bikes have to
L can not just move the trail
can't do that.
Lewatson: Unless it's off.
Mady: Unless it's off road.
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Mark Cordell:
where they're
which I think
trails.
They're talking about putting the bike trails up on top of
putting the water lines. Having a bike trail off the road
would be an advantage because most people don't ride on bike
Boyt: I don't think that was the consensus of the Council that they would
take off the on road and put an off road. I think just take it off
was it. I think it would be helpful to talk to them because any park
that goes into this area is going to be accessed by Lake Lucy Road and
it's going to be pretty dangerous if there's no trail out there.
Sietsema: The Council's trying to be very receptive to what the residents
of the City want and there are people that have come that have expressed a
need to park on the road and not necessarily a need for the trail. They
need to hear if there is a need for a trail. If you want it, then you
should probably let them know.
Hasek: I think it would also be helpful, our Minutes are verbatim too so
if you do have a comment on that, now wouldn't be a bad time to get it
into the record.
Resident:
...parking along side the road?
Boyt: No, they're talking about taking it off both sides.
trail is, because it's on road, you can
traffic going the opposite direction of
travel the S3me direction as traffic so
to just one side of the street legally.
not
the
you
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14, 1989 - Page 6
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Schroers: I would like to officially comment on that. That is currently
my jogging route and I don't want to jog in traffic. I definitely want a
trail on the side of Lake Lucy.
Mady:
Who are you?
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Sietsema: You're right. There was talk about putting an off street trail
on top of the trunk watermain and that is an option and then they could
have had off street trail with an on street trail on the north side for
bikes and then parking on the south side. But the City Council has not
heard that there's a need for a trail there at all. The people that have
lived, that have been corning to the meetings have expressed that there is
no need. The people aren't using it and there isn't a need for a trail so
if your views are different than that, they need to hear that because they
want to be responsive to the residents.
~ Tom Steinkamp: Someone should go out there on an evening in the summer
and look at all the poeple..walking up and down that road. I guess I'd
better make some formal comments rather than sitting back there. First of
all, as far as the parkland is concerned.
Torn Steinkamp: Torn Steinkamp. 1771 Pheasant Circle. First of all, as
far as the parkland is concerned, I guess I would most favor, or mostly C..(
the Carrico property as well. I think A might be a good piece of propert~
for parkland but I think it's kind of out of the area where I'm concerned
about and I think if you look at it, just look at the population of the
area, it looks like most of it quite a bit farther north and closer to C
so I would favor C. I know that you mentioned, just skimmed over it but I
think that there is a legitimate access from, is it Wood Duck that's into
that Carrico property so as that gets developed more, so we wouldn't have
a problem with people cutting through people's yard as those homes get
built in there. In talking about the trail along Lake Lucy Road, I guess
I would strongly object to removing the trail. I guess if we were looking
at an alternative for a trail along Lake Lucy Road, I'd be interested in
hearing what that is but abolish a trail on Lake Lucy Road to me would be
foolish. That road was 15 feet wide 2 years ago and nobody could park on
it. Why all of a sudden do people need to park on it now? I don't
understand. That it's a nice wide road. You go out there in the evening
in the summertime and you meet dozens of people along Lake Lucy Road. As
Curry Farms gets built up later this fall, we saw more and more people
walking on Lake Lucy Road. I know my wife walks to CR 17 every night on
Lake Lucy Road so I think that it's important to keep a trail of some sort
there on Lake Lucy Road. If it's acceptable, if there's. the possibility
of putting it off the road, that'd be fine with me but to abolish it or
get rid of it completely, I'd be strongly against that.
Torn Steinkamp:
Oh yes. They'll hear about it.
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Hasek:
it?
Is it safe to say that your neighbors would be strongly against
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14, 1989 - Page 7
Hasek: If you can't make it to these meetings, you can contact Council by
letter too. Or the City or phone.
f Tom Steinkamp: Has there been ongoing talk about this?
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Mady: They discussed it at the meeting last night. There was a motion
made to have it come back to Park and Rec for review and Council voted
against having the Park and Rec Commission review it. They thought they
could handle it on their own at the Council meetings. I believe it's a
very important issue that I think you need to...
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Sietsema: This is the second time it's been discussed at the Council
level. Last night was. It was brought up and they discussed it so this
is the second discussion of it.
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That was the impression I got from the Council but it's important
enough...
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Hasek: We are the Commission and I don't think that unless Council shows
up here that they can really tell us what we can and can not talk about as
long as it's related to Park and Recreation.
Tom Steinkamp: I would think that it should be you the ones talking about
it instead of them.
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Joe Schimml: I'm Joe Schimml, 1751 Pheasant Circle and located right
here. I will heartily agree with, I cnose C as the option for the park is
concerned. I think it's necessary, it has to be where the people are and
just in Pheasant Hill, right here, there are 87 lots. If you look at the
families out there, there are probably 2.4 or 2.8 kids per family.
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Boyt: Li t tIe k ids too.
Joe Schimml: Little kids. Our youngest is 23 so I don't care if there1s
a park there or not but I think it's important for the neighbors to have a
~park there. On the Lake Lucy Road, I can't imagine sound judgment going
into taking both of the paths off. If there's an alternative to putting
them on the side of the road, I can see that but it is basically going to
get busier isn't it so certainly I'd like to go on record as saying we do
need, at the least, a trail along Lake Lucy Road.
Tom Steinkamp: The traffic gets going pretty good now that you've made
that nice road. The traffic gets going pretty quick on that road too. I
think it's important to have something set aside for people for that
reason too because it would be quite dangerous without it.
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.MadY: One .Of the things I tried to bring to the attention of the Council
L last night in the discussion, the residents who were in attendance
indicated there was a lot of .traffic there and I mentioned to the Council
that as we are developing Curry Farms park in the next couple years,
Boyt:
Well, and as the park at Curry Farms is developed too...park area.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14, 1989 - Page 8
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I informed them that the Commission is aggresively seeking parkland in the
Pheasant Hills area. That we now have reasons for people going from one
end of Lake Lucy Road to the other end. Those things there, people start
to move and there isn't anything there right now does not mean 5 years
from now it's not going to be a great need. We need to keep the future in
mind when we do these things. We can't just do what's politically
expediate today and find out that we made a big mistake 2-3 years down the
road. Anything that we can do to help condemn it, just let us know.
Hasek: I think one other thing about the trail that is currently placed
along Lake Lucy Road is that it's not only there for the people that abut
the property and use it from the park to wherever. It's part of a much
larger system that's actually put in place and was thought about being in
place for once again, all the residents of the city as opposed to just the
people that abut the property and that's a concern often time forgotten.
I think it's important that it's kept in mind. This body is here to
represent all of the people of the City, not just the abutting property
owners.
Tom Steinkamp: When I looked at your trail system that was voted on at
the last referendum, that's one thing I looked at. How do I sit in on
this whole trail program? If the trails are all going to be on the other
side of the City, well I'm not going to vote for it but it looked to me .
like you people did a good job of getting trails throughout the city and I
part of that trail is that trail on Lake Lucy and how does that connect me
now to Lake Ann? I looked and I specifically looked and I can ride a bike
on a trail from my house to Lake Ann once the trail system gets in and
that's one of the reasons I voted for the trail system. Not you're taking
away that link if they do indeed do that.
Boyt: And it is a link.
one road.
It's part of the whole system.
It's not just
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Mary Cordell: I just want to add too.
trail system when it was up there but...
I didn't really comment on the
Hady:
You are who again?
Mary Cordell: Mary Cordell and I live on Lake Lucy Lane but our property
is also on Lake Lucy Road. To me personally the parking is not an issue
but I definitely would be in favor of an off street bike path because I
think it would be safer. The road is getting so busy that I probably
won't let my kids bike on there until they're 12. I don't know. ~'lhich is
10 years from now. I would definitely favor putting in an off street
walking, biking trail,. whatever, but I would not want to see the trail
abolished by any means. If it has to stay on street, I guess on street is
okay although I do notice that a lot of the bikers don't really bike in
the trail because of the gravel runoff and that they bike in the road.
Sietsema: That should be slowing down once construction slows down in
tha t area too.
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Park and Rec Commission Meetjng
February 14, 1989 - Page 9
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Mary Cordell: Yes, but if it was off street, that'd be nice. We moved
here from Minneapolis and the bike trail system around the lakes and that
was wonderful and very safe.
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Mady: I'll defend Don at this point because Don you'll at least be able
to keep it for the next two weeks without Don's help it wouldn't even have
been there.
Hasek: Keep it? What do you mean?
Madyf Remove it last night.
Hasek: Somebody made that motion?
Mady: Ursula.
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Hasek: You may want to wri~e a letter or contact Ursula too.
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Mady: It's still there. Don's got some ideas on how we can keep it there
so thank you both.
Torn Steinkamp: You mean without any notice to any of the concerned
people, I can come in here and speak my piece and if I put on a good
enough speech, I can get something passed without somebody taking a look
at it?
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Boyt: Not at this level. We just recommend.
Council.
I don't know about the
Torn Steinkamp: But that's what happened at City Council last night.
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Boyt:
Almost.
Mady: Any other comments on the Carrico property? Lori, have you gotten
any indications from Carrico's what their estimate of the park is going to
be?
Sietsema: Their appraisal is not completed because their appraiser has
been ill. He had some preliminary numbers. I was supposed to meet with
him today and I was ill but what he said is he was willing to sell to the
City but not for a mere $55,000.00. He felt the property was worth
$225,000.00 and he has a purchase agreement to that affect and that's how
much he would be asking for the property so I have a hunch that's based
definitely on water and sewer being available to the property. He can not
get, the way I understand it, he can not get water and sewer without the
support of the City and if the City should decide that they want the
property, I don't see us supporting him pursuing water and sewer. Getting
I approval from the Met Council. Therefore, the property would be worth as
~ a rural piece. I don't know if he would ever agree to that. That's where
. the Attorney comes in and negotiations start and if we can't come to
l terms, then we'd have to go through the condemnation process.
Mady: Is there any other discussion?
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- - Chy Council Meeting - FE lary 13, 1989
Gary Warren: we sure hope so. That's the idea is to tap the...
Councilman Workman: This sumner?
Gary Warren: well, we're intending, if we stay on our schedule and we are on
our schedule right now, to have this project awarded at the March 13th City
Council meeting. Providing favorable bids and all those other good things, the
construction schedule we're ccxnfortable with, this line would be in service by
July of this year. Typically, and last year was not typical, but we typically
are. . .
Councilman Workman: So people that are out there right now and this is going to
be running down Lake Lucy Road, they're going to be charged basically $32.00 a
year and that's about all until they tap in?
Gary Warren: Right. If there's a dwelling on the parcel, a residential
dwelling, they will be charged $32.00.
Councilman Workman: But $32.00 a year is it am a little inconvenience?
CounciLl1an Johnson: They should also check with their insurance companies. Now
that they have a fire hydrant closer, what effect that has on their household
insurance. I asswne if you're under fire protection versus no fire protection.
That's a question my insurance company asked. How far it is to your nearest
fire hydrant. Right now it's a couple miles. M3ybe, you're an insurance man,
you might know better.
!-1.3yor Chmiel: I'd like someone to provide a motion to accept the Supplement
Report No.1, the feasibility study and set a date for public hearing. What
date for the public hearing have you indicated Gary?
Gary Warren: March 13th.
Resolution #89-22: Councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Boyt seconded to accept
Supplemental Report No. 1 to the Feasibility Study and to set the public hearing
date for March 13, 1989. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
kUllCilman Johnson: Can we discuss the bike trail option?
Mayor O1miel: '!hat's the next one.
Councilman Boyt: I think that we should point out though that this will not
relieve the city from the prospects of a watering ban for an even/odd day or
same sort of combination if we have a summer like we had last sU~er.
Gary Warren: That's correct. we would be able to tolerate it a little bit
better but if you have that kind of a condition, every city just about had a
sprinkling bans and watering restrictions. It \...as 'that dry.
Councilman Boyt: I just don't want to set up false expectations. It might be a
little safer fran the terms of fighting a fire standpoint but People's lawns are
still going to suffer.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1989
Gary Warren: We haven't made up for very much moisture content in the soil yet.
CounciLllan Johnson: But \Me are in better shar::e having that new water reservoir
on line this year than \Me were last year without the water reservoir. It's not
all gloomy.
Mayor Olmiel: Okay, let's move to the trail issue portion.
Gary Warren: At the last Council meeting, the Council was presented with a
petition from the neighbors concerning the persistent issue that we've been
trying to resolve concerning on-street trails arrl the lack of parking that's
available as a result of that. I guess my thinking is that we were looking at
the feasibility study is that well, we don't have a quick fix to that problen
but to pose one alternative here, I had Westwood prepare a cost estimate for an
option that I thought might have some potential. That was, at the time of
construction of the watermain, we're going to have this 10 foot basically area
that we'll be clearing arrl restoring as a part of construction. What if we take
one of the trails off the Lake Lucy Road and put it right over the watermain?
Obviously there are sane costs involving that...arrl maybe we could turn one of
the lanes, in this case I had said the south bike path, turn that into a parking
zone. We looked at that. The dollars are in the report. It was $47,000.00 to
$64,000.00, roughly, depending on whether \Me have to move our retaining wall on
Yosenite Avenue but just to touch on the highlights aside fran the costs here
\Ilhich I don 't..., there are some hurdles with MnDot. Basically, this is looking
north, so this would be the north side of the road and this YJOuld be the south
side. The current road section is a 36 foot road section from face of curb to
face of curb. We would go up...to 6 foot bike path lanes, one in each
direction. As you will recall from the previous discussions on this, State
Statute requires that \Me can't have bike lanes going opposite directions on the
same side of the road. We pose a traffic, Statute problem... The road section
under MnDot's criteria, being a State Aid Road, in order to have a sufficient
road section that would allow one lane of parking, MnDot likes to recomnend a 34
foot road. If we look at the section from here over because we YJOuldn't be aole
to include the bike path and if you take the bike path off on the south side of
Lake Lucy Road arrl put it off over the watermain, \Me have a 30 foot section.
We're 4 feet short which, not to say that it couldn't happen but MnDot would
have to look at that as a variance to the road section requirements in their
State Aid ManuaL.. We didn't have time to get into all of that or even discuss
it very much with MnDot. I just wanted to point that out that it's not a given.
If we decide for example that yes, let's do that. Let's bear the expense of
putting the trail over on this side for this for parking, MnDot would have to
waive on their road section requirements so \Me've got a 4 foot issue there that
needs to be dealt with. Construction wise, it can be done. Again, the toughest
part of it is going to be the Yosemite Avenue area where our retaining wall.
Right now \Me have 5 feet in back of the curb...about the maple tree arrl there
are some important things that \Me' 11 have to be careful about. There are some
construction challenges to it.:. There's budget in the surplus furrls here that
could be used for tha t where \Me haven't exceeded our $530,000.00... That's I
guess the alternate that we did include in the report here.
Councilman Workman: What do the neighbors think about the trail?
Mayor Chniel: I've had a couple calls.
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City Council Meeting - Feoruary 13, 1989
CounciLl1an Workman: It's not going to bother me but what's it going to do for
you folks?
Mayor Chmiel: Would anyone like to address the issue from the neighborhood?
Brian Tichy: My nal1e is Brian Tichy and I live at 1471 Lake Lucy Road. How do
we feel about the trail? I happen to like bike trails but I'd much prefer
par~ing. Right now with the state of the bicycle trails in the area, there
really aren't any trails to hook up to the Lake Lucy trail at the moment. I
feel the idea of a trail over the water trunk is a goed one. The added cost is
a lot of money to spend and it's the City's money that, not just we would be
spending but the rest of the conmunity would be spen:Hng and I don't know if
that's worthwhile. We contacted the State and a gentleman named Roy Hanson
handles the State Aid on roads. He mentioned that the State does not dictate
that that road has to have a bike path. It is up to the City to determine
whether or not there will be a bike path there. As far as the bike path, the
\'lay it's used now, I don't know if it's necessary that there be a bike trail.
There are no other bike trails coming fran the east or west side or coming from
the north or south. It really doesn't seem to be beneficial at this point.
Councilwoman Dimler: Brian, do you use the bike path?
Brian Tichy: I use a bike quite often. Try to stay wi thin the bike trail
but. . .
Counci 1 woman Dirnler: Would you miss it if it were gone?
Bd an Tichy: No, I';j ride in the same spot.
Councilman ~vorkman: So you're basically what? You're against, not real
interested in the trail?
Brian Tichy: I'm not interested in the trail so much. I would rather not have
a trail there if it would mean that we could par~ in the road.
Councilman Johnson: You're for parking?
Brian Tichy: I'm for parking, yes.
Councilman Johnson: If the trail meant you can't have parking, you don't want
the trail?
Brian Tichy: Right.
Councilman Johnson: If you can have both, would you like both?
Brian Tichy: That would be fine. If there's a solution that would meet that,
I'd be all in favor of it.
Councilman Johnson: Your objective is parking?
Brian Tichy: Right. And one side of the road is fine. We're looking for some
type of a compromise.
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Ci ty Cound 1 ~1eeting - F2bruary 13, 1989
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Gary Warren: As I pointed out in the staff report, the maximum I believe that
we could get wi thin the State cd teria, even if both bike paths were pulled off
of that road, we only have enough road section to put in one side parking.
Counci111an Boyt: Brian, I grant that you live at the bottom of a difficult
driveway. I'm glad I don't have that driveway.
Brian Tichy: I didn't when I built.
Councilman Boyt: Well, you do now Brian and we have an ordinance about parking
on streets in the wintertime. Wnere you're hurt the most, as I understam it,
or at least looking at your driveway, is when conditions, driving conditions are
otherwise poor. If they start to be poor in your driveway, they're already
terrible. My concern is that even if there were no bike trail there, by
ordinance, you still couldn't park up there. So the bike trail really isn't the
issue. The issue is a city ordinance in effect from November 1st through April
1st and it says one, you can't park there overnight basically. 'TWo, you can't
p3rk there anytime that there's snow to be removed which is the very time you
most need to park there. So I don't think the trail is the issue here. I think
the issue is that we have a person who is inconvenienced by a city ordinance and
I don't know that there's a way to resolve that Brian. To me, the issue is the
city ordinance and the issue isn't a $60,000.00 trail.
Bd an Tichy: I'm not necessarily most concerned about emergency parking. As I
say, it's other residents along the road also. The concern is when people cane
over. There's not access to provide parking for those people, whether it's
spring, sumner, fall, winter snow storms, it doesn't matter. Those cars are,
where do you put th~l1? Wnat do you do when you have more than a couple of
people over? It's not just a problem with me, it's a problem with other
residents along the road also.
Councilman Boyt: Granted, but they have the sa'TIe problem with the ordinance.
The problem wi th what to do with people when you're going to hold a gathering of
sane sort and have more than the nor:nal number of cars, is one that we face all
over the City. I think we know how to deal with that problem. If that's the
only hold-up is where do I put people ,men I'm having a gathering at my house,
what most people do in the City Brian is they call the Sheriff's Department am
tell them, I've got an unusual situation and I believe, and I don't see Jim
Chaffee here but it's my understanding that the Sheriff's Department has been
very cooperative in that area. In giving people temporary ability to park where
they might not otherwise be able to do that.
Brian Tichy: That's an option. It becomes an inconvenience, not all events are
planned a W-..."ek or two days ahead of time to be able to do that. '!he convenience
of having parking on the street, especially in an instance like this where the
road is wide enough, we're not in a very restricted or confined area, to provide
no parking in an area like that is definitely a burden on the residents along
the road.
Counc i lman Boyt:
I rec<X:}nize that
us that the road
it, legally.
I don't disagree with you about the burden at all and
you are particularly burdened by it but Gary has already. told
isn't wide enough to allow parking unless there's no traIl on
27
cfty Council Meeting - F uary 13, 1989
Gary Ivarren: Without a variance fra.'ll the State.
Councilman Boyt: Right, and maybe ~ can get a variance but my point is that, I
think to build this parking situation so that ~ can allow people to sort of
have adhoc gatherings that they can't put in their driveway, is to give up a
situation that does benefit the city aoo will continue to do that more so in the
future because Lake Lucy is a main connector. It is going to have continuingly
large amounts of traffic on it. Brian, I think you've got a situation here that
from my perspective, the City can't afford to correct. It's just simply too
expensive to move that trail aoo that doesn't correct it because it's an
ordinance problem. That's my point of view.
Brian Tichy: If the expense is the problem, removing signs is a very
inexpensive solution.
Councilman Boyt: No, we're talking about building a trail so that ~ can
maintain that expense.
Brian Tichy: I realize that. If that is an expensive solution to the problem,
tha t may be the way to go. What I'm saying is the one thing you could do is
remove signs, no p:lrking signs and then provide p:lrking on the road. That
becomes a very minimal expense.
Gary Harren: The ci ty snow emergency signs would be back up if the no parking
signs were taken down.
Mayor Corniel: In talking to a few people that I I ve talked to wi thin your
n2ighborhood, they've indicated too that as far as the bike trail is concerned,
\omen the bike trail ~nt in, no one was ever asked if they really wanted one.
I guess the posi Hon that I see prGsently i.s that bike trail really serves no
one other than Lake Lucy Road lx.."Cause it doesn't go beyond that particular part.
It does not go onto CR 117 nor does it go on CR 17. I guess one of my concerns
is, maybe those bike paths should be eliminated and provide some off street
parking for than on one side of that particular road. I can understand some of
the concerns that they have and I think some of those concerns are basically is
they just don't have that accessibility.
Councilman Johnson: To argue the other point of view on this, ~ have an infant
trail system here where all the connections aren't made. W= had an opportunity
to put a trail between two major roads on a major road in the city. We're
running trails up CR 17 now and there's a new trail that was constructed last
year running up to about Kerber Blvd.. That will be extending on and should be
connecting here within the next few years. We should be connecting. The trail
plans, our Comprehensive Plan calls for a trail in this area. I have seen quite
a few people on this trail in the summer. I would love to see this one off the
highway. I've seen kids on tr icycles. Kids on bicycles with training wheels,
not exactly going straight, on the same roadway as we have people speeding.
This is one of the roads that is nice, very wide. You get the impression of
wideness with this road. You figure it's a 55 mph road. You go up over the
hill and here's a family with a couple people walking, a couple dogs and a horse
and two triCYcles aoo you're doing 55 over the top of the hill. I think if we
can build an off street trail at this location along the north side of here for
future use, even though it doesn't connect tcx:1ay. If we don't build it tcx:1ay
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utilizing thGse monies that are non-trail monies, then jn the future we'll be
building it. We'll be building it for more because here we already have
construction material going in there. We're already going to be working. It's
the cheap2st time, the best time to build this trail for the future. Once we
have a full trail systsn, we can dedicate our trail systen money for making
connections to this trail. '!his is used. '!here are people out there during the
sumner. Especially sumner evenings when I've been out on this road, I've seen a
lot of people out there walking along and primarily on the north side in the
area of, just drew a blank on the name of the road where we have the problen
wi th the retaining wall. Yosemite. Where people cane down off of Yosemite onto
here, walk down a ways. I'm totally for this trail. I believe to get that
trail off the roads will be a benefit to the City overall as an interconnection.
It helps connect our city and connect us to Lake Minnewashta area which is an
area of town that feels isolated and this is one more method of saying, hey,
you're part of Chanhassen. I think it's well needed and this is the time to do
it. It would be the least expensi ve time to do it. with a variance from the
State, will be able to help with the parking situation also. So I'm in favor of
this.
Councilwoman Dimler: I have a question of Gary. If we opted not to do the bike
trails on the north side, then would we have to get a variance from the State or
would we have the 34 that we are required to have?
Gary Warren: I didn't follow you.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, if we opted not to do the bike trails on the north
side as shown.
Gary Warren: Both of them?
Councilwoman Dimler: Yes. And you said that the State required that you have
34 feet.
Gary Warren: 34 feet minimum.
Councilwoman Dimler: If you didn't do the bike trails there, would you have
that 34 feet?
Gary Warren: Yes, the total section exclusive of bike paths is 36 feet from the
front of each curb to the other curb so with both trails off, we would not
theoretically have any problem with MnDot.
Councilwoman Dimler: So then you wouldn't need the variance fran the State.
Gary Warren: Rj ght. Then we would be able to put one parking lane on the road
without a variance.
Councilwoman Dimler: And I have a few more comnents. I guess I would stick
wi th the residents on this. I would like to hear from a few more of them a
little bit later but as was stated earlier, they had never been consulted
whether they wanted the trails or not. They were just put in. ...50 we changed
the situation out there without their consent. I have gone out there and I have
seen people on the road because they were unable, the bikes would be on the road
and people walking on the road because they couldn't use the trails because
29
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there was gravel on them and that is dangerous too. So if they're not going to
b? well ,naintained am the people still end up using the road, then I don't
th i nk we've accompli shed an ythi ng .
~
Brian Tichy: With all the construction going on at the present time, that's the
case. The bike paths are not used.
Councilrnan Johnson: I would support having just a 6 foot trail off of the
entire road which still gives us the trail through the area. It becomes a
walking trail at that time because you could have put a two-way bike trail so
this could not become part of the '!Win Cities bike path where they have these
trails going throughout the Twin Cities if you didn't put the two separate ones.
But as a compromise, I'd like to see mayb? just the 6 foot wide off street trail
for the people who are walking and the kids with tricycles and that kind of
thing. There's a lot of people that walk there and the only place they have to
walk is in the bike path which is p:irt of the street. Anytime we can get an off
street path and when we get it down to where we're talking just an off street
walking path, 5 foot's probably wide enough at that section with the retaining
\..a 11 .
Counci11lan Workman: It's supposed to be a two way deal. O"le path going one way
and the other path going the other way. Now you're talking about t'WO t'WO way
paths right?
G3ry Warren: He's talking about a walking path.
r13yor Chmiel: Just str ictly one way.
~-
Councilman Johnson: But if we break it down to a wal~dng path to where we're
not looking at people at people doing 10 speed bikes at 30 mph.
Councilman ~vorkman: What I'm saying is then what you I ve got is you've got a
bike path on the road that bikers are using to go both ways which defeats...
Councilman Johnson: lve'd eliminate that bike path all tCX3ether. Not put any
bike path on the road at all and only a walking trail along the edge of the road
versus, if they want to keep a bike fEth on the road and a bike path off the
road, what you're going to have on the off road bike path is people walking on
that and people trying to drive bikes. I'm not sure if that becomes compatible
use. When you get a 36 foot wide road\~y, a bicyclist without having a
designated bike path, as long as there's not four lanes there, a bicyclist can
ride that road. OUr kids ride a lot narrower road to grade school everyday here
in the downtown area. 28 foot roads with curved gutters that are nice and
dangerous for than. My basic posi tion is that I'm supporting the off stra::t
trail in this location because I think it will be a vital link in our trail
systan am this is the time to build it because it's cheapest at this point.
Mayor Chmiel:
$63,000.00?
Are you talking about the expenditure of that $47,000.00 to
Councilman Johnson: Yes. Anytime in the future it will be more expensive.
,
.
Hayor Chmiel: That's probably very true but I guess, let me just state my
position, as I see it. I think trails are necessary items within a city but I
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Ci ty Council Meeting
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think, in fact I know I clarified that a couple meetings ago. I feel there are
certain areas within this city that really needs trails. I'm not one for
putting trails in for trails. I think the areas that are needed withj n this
ci ty is TH 101, CR 17, CR 15 and then TH 101 extending fran north and south of
TH 5. To me those are probably one of the better areas to have because there
you're going to bring PeOple into the corrmunity arrl utilize that a little more.
I think putting trails into other areas right now aren't really needed. Streets
are there. People utilize those streets. People can walk on thEm. I think
I mentioned at one time, if somebody wanted to walk on my lawn, that's fine.
All well am good too. But I think that I can see expecji ting dollars as such is
just not my forte. I just don't feel comfortable in spending $47,000.00 as
opposed to almost $63,000.00, depeming on which way it goes.
Councilwoman Dimler: I agree with Mr. Mayor and I think that we should add
Minnewashta Parkway to that list.
Mayor Quniel: And Minnewashta Parkway. That was the other one I was thinking
of.
Councilman Boyt: You have listed a series of major collectors. Lake Lucy Road
is a major collector. Wnat was the percentage of funds that went into Lake Lucy
Road?
Gary Harren: 80%.
CounciL'TIan Boyt: This is basically a highway that was funded by the State that
the City used with it's discretionary ability to place those monies where we
think it will most benefit the city and the rest of the people in the area. I'Ve
very heavily subsidized, if you will, that road. What we're saying is that, am
I take no issue with the neighbors who say they have a parking problem. I agree
with them. You have a parking problem. My difficulty Brian, arrl we talked
about this last fall, was I think that we're asking the City, and I guess to
sane extent we're saying to the State, we spent more of your money that we
should have because we buil t a wider road than we ever would have buil t wi thout
those trails added onto it. Now we're going to take the ability to protect part
of those roads as a trail and we're going to sacrifice that so a few people can
park when it's convenient for than to park. I think that you're right ~. Mayor
in saying that the major collectors in this city need trails. R-ACognize that
the trail referendum failed by 8 votes. That means roughly half of the PeOple
in town fel t that there should be qui te an integrated network of trails. Now
half of them didn't. They clearly have a message to say but I think we both
agree that the majority of the people in the city would support trails on the
major collectors. This is a major collector. It already has a trail on it. To
now pull that trail off, it's a loss for the city as a whole.
Counci lman Johnson:
east/west for trails?
All the roads you listed were north/south.
We need east/west trails also.
What do we do
Mayor Chmiel: I'd like to ask any of the other residents that live wi thin the
area, their opinions.
Larry Kerber: I've got a problem with Mr. Boyt's corrment. I know the road was
buil t as a major collector. Is it a major collector? It is not. The traffic
count is, the Sta te gave me a fi gure, 700 and somethi ng a day on j t. It's
31
City Council Meeting - E~ ,:uary 13, 1989
nothing close to CR 17 or TH 101 in traffic count. True, the road was buil t
that way. Nobody out there \vanted that road or needed it. Maybe you will 10
years fran now. I don't know. If more subdivisions empty out onto it but why
can't the bike trails be off? People can still ride their bikes dOvffi it.
You've got a 25 mph speed limit on half of it. Park cars on the south side am
let people ride their bikes on it. Before we had a road 20 feet wide, all
broken up. We could park off of it and you could ride your bikes on it if you
wanted. Now we've got a road 36 feet wide and we can either, you're saying we
can either park on it or ride our bikes. One or the other, we can't do both.
It just seems like the people of the area, we all got short changed. We paid a
lot of money for a road that now we can't do what we did before with our old
road. I think the parking issue is something that was never brought up at the
meeting. That we were going to lose our parking and move a bike trail. I'd
like to know who decided to put the bike trails on there and is every bike path
in this City tVK> ways? Every time there's a bike trail it's goes two
directions? How many roads like this do we have with bike trails on both sides?
Mayor Chmiel: I think you're the only one.
Larry Kerber: I guess that's the only comments I have.
Councilman Boyt: Kerber Blvd. has a bike trail on both sides. It was also
built on the road. It's just been recently that we built off road trails.
:13yor Chmiel: Is ita bike trail or a walking path?
CoundLllan Boyt: What's off the road is a walking path. ~oJhat's on the road is
suddde as far as I'm concerned but it was planned by the earlier Council as a
trail.
Larry Kerber: But Kerber Blvd. has no dd ve'.vays coming out to it. All streets.
You won't fioo one driveway coming on Kerber Blvd. so those people have their
parking proble:n taken care of because they all have off street parking. hnere
Lake Lucy Road, all the houses were there am then we put the road in. lJe
didn't put the road in to meet the needs of the P20ple there. \^Je put the road
in that somebody else wanted and now we're tryinJ to make it work for the
residents. I think what the residents need and want should be considered more
than just for the sake of just having the bike trails there. Let's take bike
trails out. People can still ride their bikes on that road. '!he speed limit is
low enough. There isn't that much traffic on it and I think the situation would
be solved by putting parking on the south and eliminate both bike trails. '!he
path, if sanebody feels it necessary on the north side, fine.
Dick Lash: My name is Dick Lash and I don't even live on Lake Lucy Road but was
this bike trail part of the trail referendum that was voted down?
Counc i lman Boyt: No .
Dick Lash: It was not on the drawing at all?
Councilman Boyt: It might have been on the drawing Dick as part of the overall
trail plan. '!his was designed to be there several years ago.
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City Council Meeting - ebruary 13, 1989
Dick Lash: If it was on G,e drawing L~at was voted on, that's been voted
once, I know I voted on it twice. It appears to me that you're trying to
portions of this bike trail in piece by piece and eliminate a vote again.
don't know. I keep hearing bike trails and walking trails but it's been
down twice.
on not
put
I
voted
CoundLllan Boyt: There is a comprehensive trail plan for the City. What we all
voted on was how we might furrl that trail plan. We d idn' t vote on whether or
not we would have a trail plan. It's how we would fund it and that's what got
turned down.
Dick Lash: It does appear, you see trails going in on Kerber. You see trails
going in on Lake Lucy Road. Pretty soon, like Jay says, they're going to
connect up. CR 17 wi 11 have a trail on it. It's coming down CR 17 now. We
won't have much... The trail system would be going in in small sections. You
just add a little bit of pavement then they'll all be hooked up but twice this
has been voted down.
Councilman Johnson: The referendum was to accelerate the trail plan and make
the connections earlier. Now without the money from the referendum, it's going
to take many more years to have a comprehensive trail plan in this city.
Dick Lash: And this is the way to do it, right? In 1 i ttle sections?
CounciLman Johnson: This particular section is already there. We've got a
trail. What we're looking at is should we change this trail.
Dick Lash: At the expense of these people's parking though.
Councilman Johnson: Right. That was done three years ago. Prior to any member
of this Council being there. That was approved by the Council several years, 4
years ago or something. The question tonight is should we get rid of the
existing trails and allOYl parking? Should we save the existing trails? Should
we get rid of it as a bike trail? Put only a walking trail in, which is the
$47,000.00 to $60,000.00? On a walking trail if we can go down to 5 feet, we
probably won't need the $60,000.00 but the $47,000.00. There's a number of
issues. What's best for the whole future of the City here and will this be a
collector in the future. I agree that right now there's not a lot of traffic on
it. I sat with a radar gun there one way trying to, only two cars came by in
the half hour I was trying to see what the speeds were out there. But I think
in the future, as the west side develops and as the MUSA line changes, you'll
see a lot more traffic on there. I think the trail is something that we'll want
to see for those kids that are out there on their tricycles on the pavement
right now. I'd rather see them off the street. $60,000.00 is not a lot of
money, I don't think, for this many miles of trail system. It's a long trail.
Councilman Boyt: I YX)uld like to recomnend that we send this to the Park and
Rec Cornnission tomorrow night for further discussion.
Councilman Johnson: Or when it can be placed on their agenda rather than
necessarily tomorrow night?
Councilman Boyt: It needs to happen fairly fast. We don't want to hold up any
part of this project. Is tyx) weeks from now holding up the project Gary? That
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City Council Meeting - F, .:uary 13, 1989
means it puts it back to us roughly a month from now.
Gary Warren: We will proceed based on Council direction here tonight to
advertise for bids. We're lookiTB to open those bids on the 10th of March. If
there is an addendum, which is the way that this trail issue would be handled
from my perspective, \.Ve should be getting an addendun out within comfortably the
next v.>eek or two at the most.
Counci lman Johnson: Could \.Ve bid this with an addendum for the trails and say
that that bid will or will not be awarded. In other words, give us a price.
Let's get actual numbers. Whether it's $47,000.00 or $63,000.00. Get them to
bid on the trails am at that point decide whether we're going to award that
bid.
Gary Warren: The construction documents could be modified to include the trail
and have it bid as an alternate, yes.
CounciL~an Johnson: And then \.Ve approve the alternate after Park and Rec has
reviewed it and \.Ve get all the facts together. This way we don't delay the
proj ect. We get more facts. I thi nk that \-.Quld be the best way to go.
,
Councilman Boyt: But Jay, you're proposing a 5 foot trail. I've heard 6 foot
trails. I know Park and Rec has occasionally looked at 8 foot trails out in the
rural parts of town. I don't know that we're in a position where we can even
ask for a reasonable bid. '!hat's why I was suggesting that Park and Rec discuss
this tanorrow night. You certainly have the interested neighbors here so they _
would know that it's going to be discussed. ....."
Gary ~varren:
Park and Rec.
I'll agree with you to go, in fact I'll second you to go to the
I '11 second it.
Councilwoman Dimler: I'd like to discuss that. If you remember in the Council
Minutes that we just approved tonight, that was, originally what we proposed to
do to put it on the February 14th agenda for the Park and Rec and I spoke with
then today am they indicated that they didn't need to review it because of this
plan that Gary was proposing. '!hey felt that Council could make the decision.
Mayor Dimler: I see another person from the area who'd like to address.
Kathy Kerber: I'm Kathy Kerber and we have property on 6700 Powers Blvd.. I
guess one of the questions I want to ask is, where did these bike trails come
from initially? They never were talked about to the residents in the beginning.
We never were allowed to say, yes, we wante:1 them. No, we didn't want thEm.
I'd like to know where they initially carne from.
Councilman Johnson: If you actually look back to when they did hold the public
hearings on the Lake Lucy Road imprOVEments, they were included at that time 4
years ago or 3 years ago. I do remember the plans at that time, even though I
wasn't on Council at that time but I believe they were discussed with the Lake
Lucy Road improvements prior to authorizing the bonds arrl all for this. I'm
just, this is back memory a long time ago. Lori might know better if she
recollects that.
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Lori sietsema: No, I don't know. I know they were included with the road
construction.
Gary Warren: The construction plans did include the trail. '1l1at was not added
as an afterthought but it predates most of here unfortunately. It did show in
the feasibility study for the Lake Lucy Road project so that would have been a
public hearing document.
Councilman Johnson: They've never been a secret. '1l1ey've always been as part
of that. I guess you're in charge now Tom.
Kathy Kerber: I'm not insinuating that they ware secret. I just wanted to know
initially where it came frame I guess one of the other problems I have is, at
the time when the road went in and everybody at that time, on the road believed
that we were going to have parking on the road. The road got stripped and all
of a sudden the signs went up saying bike trails only. When some people called
into the City Hall and asked the engineering department what happenerl here to
the parking, they told us that the State made this requirement. '1l1at they had
to have bike trails. That is not true because we have spoken to the State
Department and they told us they do not put any restrictions or tell the Ci ty
how the extra footage is to be userl. In fact they told us we could take down
the bike trail signs and we can use it just as the road was before. I think as
all the neighbors are here tonight, we want a road with the same options that
anyone of you live on. Not one of you have a no parking and it only says, only
bike trails. We're asking for the same option. That's all.
Councilman Boyt: You will find that there are a few councilmembers that live on
a street that has no parking in front of their house.
Kathy Kerber: Well, most of the people who live here within this city does not
have that. Being that this road operated underneath those same functions
before, I don't see \-mat the problem is now. I think it's just being blown
totally out of proportion. I think we should still have the same option that we
had before and after speaking with several neighbors this morning, they all feel
the saIne way. They YwDuld like to see our same options given to us that we had
before. We're being deprived of not being able to park as we did before. Now
if we're going to receive a benefit from this road, we should receive all the
benefits we had before and it shouldn't change because we have a new road.
That's all I have to say.
Councilman Johnson: The changes that seem to be occurring right now that YwDuld
warrant this going back for Park and Rec to discuss it tomorrow night, would be
the total el imination of bike trails completely off both sides of the street and
going to a walking trail which was my idea. That YwDuld allow for the parking
without a variance. We may want to look at parking with a variance or parking
without a variance. I'm not sure if we need a bike trail through here. I
firmly bel ieve that thj s is vi tal east/west connection of our trail system. We
have a real east/west problem here in the city, eSPecially on the north side
because of our the lakes we have to run around. We can't have a trail system
that only runs north and south because we have the people on the west side of
town that don't feel they're part of the town and we need to give them that
connection and there's people using it. I'm just going over old ground again
here so I'm going to shut up.
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Ci ty Counci 1 Meet i ng - E _'uary 13, 1989
Councilwanan Dimler: Jay, didn't we just establish that Park and Rec didn't
know where the bike trails originated? The idea did not originate with them.
,
CounciL~an Johnson: I don't know that. If we established that. She said she
doesn't know.
Lori Sietsema: I don't recall that. I'd have to do some research to find out
where it originated.
Councilman Johnson: It's on our comprehensive trail plan and that originated
wi th the Park and Rec.
Councilwoman Dimler: Again, it was proposed to go on their agenda and it didn't
go on because of Gary's proposal and they felt that the Council could handle it.
Councilman Johnson: We've modified Gary's proposal a little bit. Gary's
proposal includes two bike paths and one option we're coming up with, which Bill
would like to hear their opinion on, is eliminating both bike paths and putting
only a walking path. I would like to see us find out what the actual price is
as putting it as an addendum so that Gary can go ahead putting in his addendum
on a 6 foot. Have Park and Rec consider it and see if they want to look at
maybe two options. 6 foot-8 foot so have Park and Rec look at it again tomorrow
night. The Council go ahead and authorize the, I guess that's the next action
we have to take. Authorize plans and specs and include in there addendums for
the bidders to give us a pr ice to put in a 6 foot tra i1 or an 8 foot trail wi th
the option of narrowing it at the point that there's that retaining wall to
avoid that retaining wall. Then we'll all be working from a more solid basis.
~-
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, but delaying the action then, would that delay their
right to park on the road or could they start parking there?
Councilrnan Johnson: They can't park there now.
Councilwanan Dimler: I know but I mean we can change that. That's why I'm
saying, we can change that tonight if we don't delay it.
Councilman Johnson: No, we can't. We can't change ti1is no parking tonight.
We're going to change a city ordinance tonight that's not on the agenda?
Councilwanan Dimler: I'm talking about just letting then park there and they
would abide by the restrictive ordinance.
Councilman Johnson: So they can park there during the day but not at night?
Councilwoman Dimler: Yes.
Gary Warren: The bike trail signs would have to come down. '!he designation
would have to cane off the road, in my opinion. Roger would like to address it
before we would be able to allow parking on it.
Councilman Johnson: I think this is a long tenn issue. I don't think we should
jerk too quickly on this one and quickly drop everything until we've considered
all the facts. I think that we should move towards getting parking on this
street. It does make some sense for those people to have on street parking in
.
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Ci ty Council Meeting. 'ebruary 13, 1989
this area. How's the best way to do it. It also makes sense to me to have an
off street trail running along side of this area.
Councilman Boyt: Can vJe hear from Jim Mady so he can sit down?
Jim Mady: I just wanted to bring some additional information to you concerning
the trail on Lake Lucy Road. CUrrently there really isn't anyplace for those
residents to go along that trail. You're right in that there are no trail
connections. CUrry Farms Park hopefully be developed wi thin the next couple of
years. That's on the east side of that area. 'It1e Park Corrrnission is
aggresively seeking parkland in the Pheasant Hills area. HOpefully we'll be
finding some within the next few months. Upon getting those two parks in place,
we should be increasing the amount of east/west traffic along Lake Lucy Road for
trail use dramatically because we will be providing those residents with actual
places to go which is the reason we have a trail system. That's why we have it
is to provide a method for our residents to safety get from their residence to
an area. Be it a school, a park, shopping area, what have you, without having
to actually drive or be on the street. That's what the reason is for a trail
system. Just to make you aware, that's where we're heading right now on the
Park Commission. Although maybe right now the residents don't have a place to
go, within a couple years, there are going to be a couple places for them to go
and it should definitely increase the a~ount of pedestrian and bike traffic on
that street.
CounciL-nan Johnson: 'i'le're going to have a park on both ends of this trail.
Councilman Boyt: 'i1e11, we have a motion to refer this to the Park and Rec
Corrmission tomorrow night.
Betsy Glaccum: I'm Betsy Glaccum. I live at 15113 Lake Lucy Road where the
retaining wall is. I'd just like to be on record that I'd hate to see that wall
come down. It's beautiful and quite an expense and people say, what about the
tree and of course, I'd hate to lose that because it's my shelter and it keeps
me cool and stuff. The parking is a problem for some of the neighbors. It
doesn't really include me. I'm doing okay wi th that. I would like to see the
problem solved for people with bad driveways but I do not want to see a bike
path moved over and have it doubled and come down the road on our grass, our
front lawns and do a lot of damage so I'd just like to be on record that I'm
against that. Okay? For the parking, when the road was built and the
feasibility study, I believe this is an urban road, minimum width was 44 feet,
two traffic lanes and parallel parking. This width can be reduced by the City
Council if it passes resolution banning parking on the roadway. 'It1e recoomended
design is 36 feet and that's what we've got. I'd like to see the bike paths
stay there.
Councilman Johnson: 'iVhat'd you say? You want to see them stay?
Betsy Glaccum: The bicycle paths stay where they are. I'd like to see that. I
don't want them to come over my front lawn and move it over further and then
damage the retaining wall, my neighbors front lawns am like that. I'd prefer
to leave the road as is.
Councilman Johnson: Which w::mld eliminate parking then?
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Betsy Glaccum: Yes, we don't have parking now so, I mean I'd like to SE?-e
something to solve Brian Tichy's problem especially. I think that's terrible
wi th their dd veway so high and so dangerous but in the feasibil i ty study it
said, 44 feet wide and we went to 36 feet wide, right? Two traffic lanes and
parallel parking. But there is a footnote to that that \-las in the feasibi li ty
study. '!he footnote says, this width can be reduced if the City Counci 1 passes
resolution banning parking on the roadway. The whole thing was that they would
have to get 19 petitions, 19 of us neighbors to give them easements. 19 of us
to give you easements to make the road wider so the Council knew we were so
upset about this road as is, getting so wide, that's why I think it was left at
36 feet. Now Gary I don't know...
Gary Warren: '!he 44 foot section is what M1Dot requires on a State Aid road to
have parallel parking on both sides of two travel lanes. And as a result of the
process, the road section could be shrunk, dollars and other concerns were a
factor and also the inclusion the bituminous curbing was another factor to
comply with MnDot's clear zone requirements, if you will, so this section was
shrunk and as a result of that, the no parking came from that also because it
was a 36 foot instead of a 44 foot wide road.
Betsy Glaccum: I think that's why the bike trails were put there.
Counci Iman Boyt: .. . as would any of us faced wi th that kind of increase, I'm
sure their reaction was we don't think so in terms of approving it. ve have
already agreed, the City has already agreed that in order to reduce that to 36
feet, there would be no parking. Is that right?
Betsy Glaccum: It's in the feasibility study of February, correct. The thing
I'd like to see the neighbors problem solved with the parking situation but you
know, I can't go along with the thousands of dollars that would be spent and all
our lawns and trees da~aged to bring another bicycle path in when the Council
already agreed to keep it less width and put in the bike paths so we 'M)uldn' t
have to walk in the road.
CounciLman Boyt: It's clearly not my option to remove, or my preference to
remove your 100 year old maple tree. Gary, you sean to have some hesitation
about, and I thought earlier you said with 36 feet we can have parking on one
side of the road. If the feasibility says, if you agree to 36 feet, you agree to
no parking. Can you clarify this?
Gary Warren: I can't attest to the discussion on the feasibility but what I can
say is that the State Aid Manual which we've reviewed as a part of the
preparation of this report, shows that an urban section roadway width, in order
to have one lane of parking on an urban section roadway, you need a 34 foot wide
road section. We have 36. So whether the discussion at that time was that, I
guess I don't know how they interpretted that at that time. Today's standards
shows that if you have a 36 foot road section, you should be able to accomooate
one lane of parking.
Councilman Boyt: I would like to see us take the time to look at this issue in
more depth so as I speak in favor of the motion that's on the floor, to seoo
this to Park and Rec as part of it.
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Councilwoman Dimler:
agenda for tomorrow.
I would favor that motion only if we can get it on the
Lori, is that a possibility?
Lori Sietsema: Yes.
Councilwoman Dimler: Then the neighbors, would you notify the neighbors Betsy
to have them come out for this meeting tomorrow?
Betsy Glaccum: Okay. Where will that be? Right here?
Mayor Chmiel: 7: 30 right in this room.
Councilman Johnson: Gary, for putting this trail in, will anything be disturbed
that is not disturbed by the waterrnain construction already? We're going to be
digging a pretty good sized hole to put in an 8 inch waterrnain more than 4 foot
underground.
CounciL~an Boyt: It's across the road though Jay.
Gary Warren: The only area that would be impacted by the trail is if you
decided to p..1t the trail, a full 6 foot trail, in front of the Glaccum property
and get the total 10 feet of width basically from face of the curb then back.
Otherwise, the rest of the construction from the Lake Lucy Road waterrnain would
be integral with the trail construction.
Councilman Johnson: The trail's right over the top of where we're digging the
watermain?
Gary Warren: There \'1Ouldn't be any additional disruption as a result of that
except for where you got to the retaining wall area.
Councilman Johnson: If we're talking a walking trail, 5 foot's no problem.
Al Harvey: Al Harvey, 1430 Lake Lucy Road. I'll take objections to what Gary,
I've been trying to get him out to show him. \~ buH t in '65. OJr sewer goes
to the front. vle've li.mited for our drainfield system the way it is now. Coming
further closer to our house will definitely cause a problem. Either the City
will have to move our septic system somewhere, I don't know where. We've been
disturbed now through the road construction. 1 can not tolerate any more of it
coming north. We've accepted where your bike trail is now. If you come any
closer to our house, it's going to cause a real hardship to us. I've been
trying to get Gary out. Unfortunately we haven't made connections yet. Another
tl1ing that I would like to suggest is that, take down the bicycle signs. I have
horses. I have 11 acres up there. We're still rural up there. I've had to
rename my horses bicycle in order to ride on your road. I would prefer to see
one side row of p3rking. 'The people that go by there on bicycles now, they're
riding 4 abreast anyway. They're not using the trail to the effect what it was
designed for. They're coming down the center of the road. They've got hard
hats on and they're buzzing. So are the cars. It's not a safe road anymore.
We used to have a nice rural road. We now have a speeder up there. 'There's
some consideration about any type of trail going on other than what you have
already. We've lived there a number of years and we've seen the increase in
speed since the new road. My suggestion would be, leave us where we're at.
Please don't come any further north and take down the bicycle signs. We'd like
39
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City Coul1cil Meeting - F\.. _uary 13, 1989
to ride our horses there too.
Counci 111an Johnson: Gary, will this waterrnain be on any private property or is
this all public property that \'vB have this on?
Gary Warren: Mr. Harvey and I have talked, he's been out of town and just got
back in. When we last talked I said, let me know when you're back in town and
we'll go out and look at it so tomorrow or whenever it's convenient \'vB'11 do
that. His gray water tanks, or septic tanks may be in the city right-of-way
because the trail is proposed or if it would go in, would be totally wi thin city
right-of-way but stranger things have happened.
CounciL'ilan Johnson: But the trail is not going to affect his gray water tanks
as much as putting a watermain through. we definitely don't want to put a
watermain through a septic system. If this septic system happens to be on city
property, then we're going to have to work on that.
Al Harvey: If you stay within your right-of-way, which is the telephone poles,
I'm on my own pri va te property wi th the systems but the damage, the seepage arrl
such going into the construction. It was disturbed when the other thing...so
I just would like a solution of some kirrl developed if you're coming further
north. I'd prefer that you didn't but we're 90 feet from the road but
everything keeps coming on the north side of the road. I can not even agree
with your feasbility study. You look down and you see a whole row of telephone
poles. Nothing on the south side of the road. 'i'E need sewer up in our area
much more than we need the watermain on the north side of the road. You've got
to have a distance between your sewer line and your water line. 10 feet? You
put the waterline on the north side and and the people on the north side who
need sewer. There's a lot of proble.11s in that area. I'd like to see the City
develop a comprehensive plan that would do more than one thing at a time. 'iVe
petitioned against the city for the road. All we wanted was a blacktoppe:j road.
He didn't want bike trails. We didn't want curb and gutter and all this other.
The City didn't at that time listen to us. \'le've Jdrrl of had our hardships up
through there. Now we'd Ii ke to see somethi ng resolved at the benefit to the
people who live there.
Gary Warren: The Harvey property is outside of the MUSA area which is the
reason why it doesn't have sewer.
Al Harvey: It's 200 feet...when you run down the hill.
Gary Warren: There's no physical problem wi th connecting. It's just the fact
that M:t Council won't allow it.
Councilman Boyt: Could \'vB vote on the motion?
Mayor Chmi.el: I was just going to suggest that if I could stop coughing. We
have a motion on the floor arrl there's a secorrl to s~rrl this back to Park arrl
Rec for tomorrow and then come up with some conclusions on it and get back with
Council.
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City Council Meeting - ebruary 13, 1989
Counci lman Boyt moved, Counci lman Johnson seconded to sem the i ten of bi ke
trails along Lake Lucy Road back to the Park and Recreation Comnission for their
review. Councilmans Boyt and Councilman Johnson voted in favor. Councilman
Workman, Councilwoman Oimler and Mayor Chmiel voted against the motion and the
motion failed with a vote of 2 to 3.
Councilman Johnson: If that failed, then something needs to be resolved doesn't
it?
Mayor C1miel: '!hat's right. What we do need is another motion on the floor as
to what are we going to do.
Councilman Johnson: I'll make another motion. I'll try this one. We add an
addendum to 8(b), which is caning up next, to add as options the construction
of, so we can get the cost, construction of off street trails over the disturbed
area of the watermain 6 foot am avoiding the trees am the retaining wall at
Yosemite. Tnat we place that on the bids of plans and specifications to be
added as an option to be approved or disapproved at a later time. We can hold
some meetings on that and Park and Rec look at that under a less strenuous
schedule than tomorrow night. We can collect more information to look at the
whole issue.
Councilman 1;'Jorkman: You're saying accept everything except the trail part?
Councilman Johnson: No. We put out a bid that has the trail as an option. In
other words, \Ye' 11 collect a cost to build a 6 foot trail over the top of where
they're goi.ng to dig up for the watermain and that will be an option on the
contract to get an exact bid price for then. Tnen we'll have Park and Rec take a
look at that over the future so this doesn't delay the plans and specs for
putting the watermain in because the watermain is very important to the City.
The trail seems to be a side issue.
Councilwoman Oimler: We already voted on the watermain.
CounciL~an Johnson: Not the plans and specs.
Counc i 1 woman Oimler: I know. Tha t 's the nex tone.
CounciL~an Johnson:
Exactly.
Councilwoman Oimler:
motion didn't pass.
to deal with it.
... their motion to not leave this hanging since the other
We're not going to take it to Park and Rec so now we've got
Councilman Johnson:
Tne trail?
Mayor Chmiel: That's correct.
Councilman Johnson: I was dealing with it by getting exact costs and putting it
on as an option.
Gary Warren: Do we remove the on street trails then as a part of it?
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Councilman Johnson: Yes, am then we'd remove the on street trails as part of
that to where all we'd have is an off street trail. Then we could have parking
on one side.
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Counci1~an Ivorkman: It seems to me Jay, the problem really isn't the cost of
the trail for these people because they're not going to pay for it. It's their
property being abutted by a trail or the retaining wall problem or the oak tree
problem or septic problems or anything else. This again is one of the things
about the trail referendum. People concerned about a trail going over their
property. I haven't made too many conments on this issue yet arrl maybe I should
make a few quickly now. I've seen a lot of lost love for this Lake Lucy Road.
I haven't seen or heard anything good about this road. First there was the
construction of it. Now the watermain. Bike trails. No parking. Retaining
walls. I don't think the stripes and signs are followed very carefully and the
horse named bike is using them and everything else. I've seen little kids on
their wheely bikes going down that hi 11 faster than me, and I speed but I'm for
speed traps too. I would like to see possibly that extra money used for Well #5
so we can water our lawns in the coming years. It's an awful lot of money for a
trail that again, the people in this area aren't real excited about. It seems
to me that, unless we can figure out an option with the existing trail systS'll,
p:lrking on one side, trail on the other somehow, it's a problem. Toe elaborate
off road trail, taking again the people on the north side of this road, is again
adding insult to injury. They've had to take a lot I think. Even though
they're not going to have to pay for the trail, al though they will one way or
the other, \~ all will, it seems to me that they've pretty much been picked on a
Ii ttle bit am they're not about to get exci ted about this. I don't know how we
can expect them to.
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Councilman Jolmson: They live on a country road and then it's turned into an
east/west connecti.n~ road as we suburbanize the city.
Councilman Ivorkman: It is though a unique road in how it was built. The width.
From what it \vas to what it now is. It hasn't made than happy. It is a country
road. I had to thrO~1 a mud turtle or whatever it was about this size that was
sitting in the middle of that road one day. It's a beautiful area but I thinl<
again we've got a lot of signs, stripes, ""jde. I think we've made it into a
super high'.vay. I don't know that parking on it is going to slow anybody down
but it seems to me that we've got to give d little bit to this area on this road
issue because how much can we beat on these folks up in this area with this road
which has become the scurge of the ir lives.
Councilwoman Dimler: I would just like to see us move in the direction of
giving the residents what they W3nt and that we focus not on the trail but on
the par:dng. That we do whatever is required, and Roger maybe you can help us
in this area, is do whatever is required to get the signs changed and whatever
to allow them to park there just as soon as possible.
RCXJer Knutson: All it takes to undo that is, the bike trail is a decision of
the Council. If you made it a bike trail, you can take down the signs by your
own direction with a motion.
Mayor Chmiel: u:t me just throw out something in addi Hon. Would it help those
few who have problems with accessibility with their driveways, to have a pad put
in adjacent to that road for parking? Would that be of any benefit?
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City Council Meeting - _oruary 13, 1989
Councilman Johnson: At a cost to all the taxp3yers of the City?
Councilman Boyt: But wait. There is some logic to this idea of solving the
problem where the problan is rather than eliminating what we have. If it
amounts to building 100 yards of p3d, that's a heck of a lot less disruption
than putting in an off road trail over the whole length. VE still keep our on
road trail. I think the M3yor may well have found a solution here that's quite
a bit cheaper than a $40,000.00 trail. It gives you closer access parking than
you're going to have otherwise and keeps us from being the first Council that's
actually pulled trails off the map.
Councilman Johnson: We certainly w::>uldn't want to be known as that.
Counci lman Boyt: So I would sure support your plan.
Councilman Johnson: That would be on the north side then where the construction
of the watermain is taken. ~~ vJOuld put some expansions to the street. The
south side, like in Brian's area, is kind of a cliff. It w::>uld be kind of hard
to expand there and there's no construction going on there so it would be at a
great additional cost. As long as we have construction already going off,
grading, digging on the north side, I believe that's where it would be done.
M3yor Chmiel: Yes.
Counci lrnan Boyt: It would avoid the wall. It w::>uld avoid the tree.
CounciL'11an Johnson: That's right. It sounds like we may have come up with a
good compromise.
Counci lwoman Dimler: Hould that be acceptable to the residents? Do you want to
corrrnent on it?
M3yor Chmiel: That's what I'm waiting for.
Councilman Workman: I'm not sure I have the concept of this plan.
Councilman Johnson: I think engineering needs to do some drawings here.
Mayor Chmiel: I think staff should come up with some kind of alternative to it
to see if that could resolve the problems that the people are l1eving presently.
Councilman Boyt: Maybe they could discuss it tomorrow night a bit.
Brian Tichy: The only concern I would have is where, first of all where the pad
would be located. The south side of the road does fall off... Secondly, it
would have to be equi table for everybody... Your compromise here is worth
thinking about.. .all the residents.
Councilman Johnson: ~Ve may not be able to solve every problem in the world
every time. I would t.e against removing the trail, even though temporary while
we study an option.
Councilwoman Oimler: Just removing the signs Jay.
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Counci111an Johnson: You remove the signs, you remove the trail.
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Mayor Chmiel: The no parking signs.
Councilman Johnson: Right. '!hat means you can park in the bike trail so if you
renove, from what I gather, if you remove the no parking signs, you've got to
remove the trails because you can't have parking in the middle of bike trails.
The two uses are not compa tible.
Councilwoman Dimler: Yes, but they're not being used as such right now.
Counci11lan Johnson: Not during the winter. They're being used during the
sumner.
Don Ashworth: I think there's another problem. I thought that the initial
issue was one of being able to get up to the properties in the winter and
therefore some necessity for parking down below during the snows. Even taking
down the signs, you still have the parking ban during snowfalls. They still
would not be able to park on the streets.
CounciLllan Johnson: You take down the signs, they still have the problem. The
signs won't solve their problem. The winter's right now.
Councilwoman Dimler: I know but only when it snows and v..B haven't had a whole
lot of that.
Coul1ciLman Johnson: You cal1't park overnight 011 any city street right now.
~-men it snows, you can't even park there during the day.
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Gary \'Jarren: We've got pavement markings that are painted on the road'Nay and I
don't know, Roger I guess I hate to put you on the spot here but don't we also
have to remove those pavement markings before legally the trail is gone?
Roger Knutson: I haven't seen th:ll. vlliat do you have them marked in just "3
yellow line?
Gary Warren: vJe have a \mile line on each side of the road at the 6 foot mark
plus we've got bikeway sign painted on the road, diamonds arrl such.
Mayor Olmiel: I would like to recomnend that staff come up with some
conclusions as to parking availability for those people that have problems.
Then have this come back to Council within 2 weeks.
Councilman Boyt: Would you be open to having Park and Rec discuss it in the
meantime? &..'"'Cause this n~ally still affects them.
Mayor Chmiel: I think it will be getting to the posi tion that I'm not sure
whether they should have it back to discuss it or even go along with it. I
think what we're trying to do is resolve a problem here. ~'le' re trying to
resolve a problem that the people have and I think we can do it right here. At
least that's my opinion. I don't know if anyone has any others.
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Al Harvey: I think some of the parking problen is also for entertaining. If
you have friends there, whether it's sumner or winter or whatever. You've got a
problem with parking when there are people there...so I think a pad located in
the right situation probably would help the situation. Some of us, although
we're closer, we have parking off the road but if you do have friends, 8 or 10.
cars and...
Mayor O1miel: I don't know if we need a motion on that, to proceed with it. Is
there a requirement for a motion on that Roger? If we were to request staff to
come up with some solutions \vi th pads and in conjunction with that, showing it
to the residents so they're aware as to what they're thinking.
Roger Knutson: I don't think a full motion is necessary unless someone wants to
call for one.
CounciLman Johnson: It clarifies t.~e issue if you have it in motion form. It
clarifies that it's got three-fifths staff approval if you make a motion that's
voted on and it passes.
M3yor Chmiel: Alright, I'll make that motion. The motion is that staff should
review the areas of concern with parking and to design a pad that would be
acceptable to the property owners.
CoundL'llan Johnson: Actually what you're asking for is a mini-feasibility study
of placing pads that will alleviate the parking problem. I'll second a
mini-feasibility study of such.
Councilwoman Dimler: I think that's a good idea but I would still like to see
than able to park in the meantime. We don't know how long this is going to
take.
Counc i lman Boyt: Let's vote on them one at a time maybe.
Councilman Johnson: They've been without it for two years, a couple more weeks
is not going to disturb them.
Councilwoman Dimler: \~ say 2 weeks but we don't know.
Councilman Johnson: Even a month.
Mayor O1miel: At least we're trying to resolve the issue and trying to assist
as much as we possibly can without causing a real big concern.
Gary Warren: \\t2'd like to see it resolved quickly so that if it needs to be
incorporated with the construction of the watermain project, that we can factor
that into the plans so we will try to bring it back as soon as possible.
Mayor Chmiel: I'd like it back wi thin a 2 week period.
Mayor O1miel moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to direct staff to prepare a
mini-feasibility study for installing a parking pad to alleviate the parking
problemon Lake Lucy Road to be brought back to the City Council in two ~ks.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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Don Ashworth: Just for clarification. With limited staff, we would be going
outside to get this work down. I don't anticipate it being a lot of money but
we would be spending some on some outside help.
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Councilman Johnson: I would recomnend Westwood Professional Services who have
done this feasibility study arrl are familiar with all the details so there would
be no cost to bring them up to speed. I believe they're also sitting here
listening to all this.
Mayor Chmiel: I'd like them to go out in the field and take a look at what's
there existing. Not just at the papers that we have. Alright, we'll move on to
item 8(b). Approve plans and specs and authorize taking bids for Lake Lucy Road
trunk watermain project.
Counci 1111an Boyt: Can we do this \men we don't have all the information?
;~yor Chmiel: I think v~ can.
Gary Warren: I think you should proceed on. We would be able to mod ify wi th an
addendum any further changes to the plan as far as a trail is concerned.
Counci lman Johnson: Would we want to note that in our plans and speci fica bons?
I don I t think there's any need to ei ther . I move we approve the Lake Lucy Road
trunk watermain plans as prepared by the firm of Westwood Professional Services
and authori ze the taking of bids.
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Counci lwoman Dimler: I' 11 second it.
Resolution #89-23: Councilman Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to
approve the L3ke Lucy Road trunk watermain plans as prepared by the finn of
~Vestwood Professional Services and authorize the taking of bids. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
HENNEPIN COUNTY REGIONAL RAIL AUTHORITY, UPDATE, CITY ENGINEER.
Gary Warren: I can mentioned a few comnents fram notes that 1 took about it.
Basically Cbmmissioner Savanich was present to seek the County's, Carver
County's comnibnent, if you will, to supporting acquisition of right-of-way and
supporting the light rail transit concept. I guess my interpretation was that
he received some support in that regard although not any comnibnent of funds at
this time. The discussion was that 1995 would be the start of construction of
the 1-35 piece so that would be phased in after we got out first corridor
established out here which would go out as far as Hopkins. 1 guess the real
impact as far as 1 read it for Carver County was a continued solicitation of the
County's SUpport and acquisition of right-of-way and'properties that would
impact this area. He also, 1 thought, had an interesting slide presentation,
aerial slide presentation of the corridor from Chaska on through which 1 thought
was a pretty good way to visualize how this would run. And he talked about that
they had made a comni tment to the hi.gh platform loading concept which seemed to
make sense too as far as the access for handicapped arrl those types of difficult
access. Also that allowed them to rapdily load and unload cars which added to
.
46
.
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
9~
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
//J
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
DATE: March 9, 1989
SUBJ: 4th of July Celebration, Street Dance Band Selection
Attached please find an engagement contract between the Hi-Tops
and the City of Chanhassen. The Hi-Tops remain to be our best
entertainment value for the 4th of July street dance. They have
provided great performances the past three years. Once the
dancing started last year, you could not get the crowd off the
pavement.
.
The street dance is scheduled for Saturday evening, July 1, and
it will be held in the back of City Hall in the parking lot adja-
cent to City Center Park. The cost of their performance has not
increased the past two years and remains at $1200 for three 60
minute sets this year.
It is staff's recommendation to accept the contract for the
Hi-Tops to perform at the 1989 4th of July street dance in the
amount of $1200.
Update (March 22, 1989): The Park and Recreation Commission
reviewed this item and felt an entertaining show had been
provided the past three years by the Hi-Tops. In looking for a
band which plays appropriate music combined with a quality stage
show at a reasonable price, the Hi-Tops can not be beat. Other
similiar groups cost $2500.00 to $3000.00 per performance. The
Commission recomended unanimously to award the July 4th band
contract to the 50's, 60's and 70's band, the Hi-Topps, in the
amount of $1200.00.
.
~B
Todd Hoffman
(Name)
City of Chanhassen
(Corporate Name, it any)
Box 147
(Address)
. .
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L/llifUlJ~onogement
~. Box 26037 MO
Mpls., MN 55426
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ENGAGEMENT CONTRACT
1. PARTIES. The parties to this contraCt are:
ARTIST:
John K~umm
(Name of Leader)
Hi-Tops (5)
% W.arnof/~JWd/A<:t/C'....ololop. nurobar of musiciansl
. P~O. Box.26037 .
(Address)
PURCHASER:
Mpls., MN 55426 Chanhassen, MN 55317
(City, State, Zip) (City, State, Zip)
2. PURPOSE. This contract sets forth the terms and conditions for an engagement in which the Purchaser
employs the artist's professional services as a musician/musical group.
3. PURCHASER'S DUTIES. Purchaser agrees to employ the Artist for professional services as a musician/
musical group. Purchaser agrees to the terms and conditions of the engagement and compensation for the
Artist as set forth below in paragraph seven.
4. ARTISrS DUTIES. Artist agrees to provide professional services as a musician/musical group and to perform
the engagement according to the terms and conditions as set forth below i~ paragraph seven.
t
5. ARTIST'S WARRANTIES. Artist/leader warrants that the individual band/group members working this
engagement have given him/her the power to bind them to the terms and conditions of this contract. Each
musician may enforce this engagement contract.
6. PURCHASER'S WARRANTIES. Purchaser warrants there will be no recording, reproduction or transmission
. from the place of the engagement in any manner or by any means whatsoever without the prior written consent
of the Artist and Hoffman Talent Management.
7. TERMS AND CONDITIONS: (j;q()
(A) Name and place of engagement City of Chanhassen..-96e- Coulte~. Chanhassen. MN
(8) Dates; starting and finishing time of engagement Ju' y 1, 1989/3-60 minute sets between 8PM & 12AM
(C) Type of engagement(specify whether dance, stage show, banquet, nightclub, etc.) dance/show/outdoo~
(D) Compensation (amount, terms, when payable) $1200.00 (One thousand two hund~ed dolla~s) flat gua~antee.
A deposit of $400 is due with employe~ signed cont~act made payable to HTM. Balance of payment to be
made in cash only immediately following pe~fo~mance. .
(E) Additional provisions
Not withstanding inclement weathe~ ~ende~ing pe~fo~mance impo~sible, fu" payment wi' I neve~theless
,(A'/Ai 0(// #I1T~ I 5v#~~f' V/?/tf/ 2'
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8. INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. Artist is an independent contractor and is not an employee of the Purchasw !z slr
while rendering services as a musician/musical group. en :;:).. c(
- -0.
9. LIABILITY. Purchaser agrees to indemnify, defend and hold artist and Hoffman Talent Management harmle~ !z ~ :J:
from and against any and all claims, costs or liability for damage or injury to any person or property during artisW W ... ...
engagement, including time of set-up and take-down.' Ei ~ 0 0
10. ARBITRATION. Any controversy or claim arising out of this contract shall be settled by arbitration in accof( ~ ~ ~
dance with the latest rules of the American Arbitration Association. Judgment upon the award rendered hi c( ... m
ar~itration may be entered in any court having jurisdiction. ~ C) ~ 0
'1. BOOK-BACK. Artist and Purchaser agree that future engagements in this establishment or any establishme~ ffi 0 ~
owned or controlled by Purchaser, shall be booked through Hoffman Talent Management for a period of twelve (1 ~ en en ::>
months from lt1e date of this engagement. The book-back term of those future engagement contracts will be twelve I I 0
(12) months to run from the end of the engagement. Artist and Purchaser shall be jointly and severally liable to .... ... ~
Hoffman Talent Management for payment of the fee agreed on by the Artist and Hoffman Talent Management and . W
recorded on the booking slip kept for each engagement by Hoffman Talent Management.
12. RIDER. Theattached rider, if any, is to be considered part of this engagement contract. HOFFMAN TALENT. /NC .
DATED: Jan 31 1989 ACTS HEREIN ONLY AS AGENT
. , MD OR MANAGER FOR ARTIST AND
FOR THE ARTIST: .' FOR THE PURCHASER: .... NO UASlUTY HERfUNDEA.
be made.
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5'5317
(612) 937-1900 ktP," h Clfv M/l'!!nl'1~f\i1
fl!dD! S':I'
/ ~'A-
MEMORANDUM
~,~cljif:~~_..
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TO:
'-'~~I'" '.c 1 1
Don Ashworth, City Manager t.~!:'~'-:~m 19--:
Gary Warren, Ci ty Eng ineer 15 :::~t:'d tv CC~l:nr')~~
~ ~bmltttd 10 Gild';:' ::
February 8, 1989 ~Zj-_~
Accept Addendum Report No. 1 to Lake Lucy Road
Trunk Watermain Feasibility Study; Set Public Hearing Date
File No. 88-25
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Attached is Addendum Report No. 1 to the Lake Lucy Road trunk
watermain feasibility study which was originally accepted by the
Council at its December 12, 1988 meeting. Recognizing the impor-
tance of this trunk watermain construction to the City's water
supply system, Council authorized that preparation of plans and
specifications commence i!nmeaiate1y following the December 12,
1988 meeting. Sufficient time was not available then to deal
with the service policy for abutting properties along Lake Lucy
Road. Therefore, staff was directed to prepare this addendum
report which specifically lays out the funding scenario for the
project and a connection policy for those properties which abut
Lake Lucy Road. In addition, a public information workshop
meeting was also held on January 24, 1989 which was well attended
by the majority of the abutting residents.
The addendum report goes into detail in explaining the proposed
connection and fee policy; however, I think it would be benefi-
cial if I attempt to summarize in outline form the key policy
elements.
1. The project is proposed to be funded from the surplus pro-
ceeds which are available from the general obligation bonds
of 1986. This totals to approximately $550,000. The esti-
mated construction cost for the watermain, including booster
station improvements, is $472,481.
2. Existing dwellings will not be required to connect to the
trunk watermain.
3. No assessments are proposed for the project unless a property
owner chooses to connect to the watermain and wishes the con-
nection fees and hookup charges to be assessed against his
property.
4? ftilfL-
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Don Ashworth
February 8, 1989
Page 2
4. In order to recognize the residential benefit provided by
this trunk watermain to the abutting properties, the connec-
tion charge of $3,035.43 per unit is proposed in accordance
with Section 19-20 of the City Code. This fee will accrue at
a discounted interest rate of 4t% interest commencing with
the "in-service" date (July, 1989) of the trunk watermain
until the service connection date.
5. A hookup charge (currently $650/unit) will be charged per
connection in accordance with Section 19-21 of the City Code.
This fee can be periodically updated at the discretion of the
City Council.
6. The connection and hookup charges can be paid fully at the
time of connection or assessed against the properties at the
request of the property owner at the following rates:
Hookup charge at 8% for a four (4) year term
Connection charge at 9% for a six (6) year term
7. Individual property owners will be responsible for their
respective cost to bring the water service from the City's
stub into their property and connection to their internal
piping.
8. In accordance with Section 19-19 of the City Code, any new
dwellings and any existing dwellings whose private well
system fails will be required to connect to the public water
supply system.
9. A fire safety availability charge (currently So/quarter)
shall be billed against all existing dwellings that choose
not to connect to the watermain system to recognize the fire
safety benefit the trunk main provides to these properties.
That concludes the summary of the proposed service pOlicy for the
Lake Lucy Road trunk watermain. I believe that it is a flexible
arrangement which recognizes the disparity of the larger proper-
ties which are not able to subdivide at this time and also
provides a vehicle for the City to recapture the residential
benefit of this trunk main at such time as development progresses
in this area.
-.} BIKE TRAIL OPTION
/'J'Within this addendum report we have also included a brief
discussion concerning the Lake Lucy Road trail/No-Parking issue.
While the search for an interim, "quick-fix" solution to the
removal of No-Parking restrictions on one side of Lake Lucy Road
does not appear imminent, I have had our consultants take a look
at the feasibility of constructing a 6-foot wide bituminous trail
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Don Ashworth
February 8, 1989
Page 3
on top of the trunk watermain alignment as a part of this pro-
ject. If MnDOT approves, this would allow us to eliminate one of
the on-street existing bike trails and place it on the new path
over the watermain.
we should not underestimate, however, the difficulties and
expense to accomplish this. There are some construction
challenges, the most significant being the existing retaining
wall in front of the Glaccum property at Yosemite which might
need to be rebuilt. If so, we would need to protect the lOa-year
old maple tree on the Glaccum property. In addition, even if one
trail were removed from the road, it is unclear at this time if
the road section is wide enough to accommodate on-street parking.
This would have to be reviewed with MnDOT and may result in a
variance appeal. Further, if parking is allowed it would still
be restricted during snow emergencies (see Section 12-16 of the
City Code, attached).
The feasibility study has estimated the construction cost
including engineering and contingencies for this trail to range
from $47,500 to $63,800 depending on whether the retaining wall
needs to be moved.
It is therefore my recommendation that the City Council accept
the attached Addendum No. 1 to the Lake Lucy Road trunk watermain
feasibility study and adopt the connection and fee policy as laid
out in the staff report and addendum. The City Attorney has
advised the City that a public hearing for the watermain
construction is not required. However, as yuestions may exist as
to the connection policy, effects of construction on property
owners, the bike trail proposal, etc. it is recommended that a
hearing be set for March 13, 1989 to address these issues.
In addition, it is recommended that staff be directed to investi-
gate the off-street trail option and meet with MnDOT to determine
the possib1ity of implementing this option.
Attachments
1. Addendum Report No.1
2. City Code Section 19 excerpts.
3. Bikeway Street Section.
4. Section 12-16 of City Code - Snow Emergencies.
cc: Dick Koppy, Westwood Engineering
Lake Lucy Road Abutting Property Owners
~ 19-18
CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
will not be cut off until after the hearing is held. If the customer requests a hearing before the
date specified. a hearing shall be held on the matter by the city council at their next regular
meeting, but not to exceed three (3) weeks after the date on which the request is made. If as a
result of the hearing, the city council finds that the amount claimed to be owing is actually
due and unpaid and that there is no legal reason why the water supply of the delinquent
customer may not be shut off, the city may shut off the supply.
(Ord. No. 6, ~ 10.01, 3-11-85)
a ssuance of building permits for new construction where the p~operty is adjacent to a
municipal watermain, or in a block through or to which the watermain extends, or is within
one hundred fifty (150) feet of the water system shall be conditioned upon connection to said
municipal water system, unless in the opinion of the city it is neither feasible nor practical to
make such connection.
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(b) The drilling of new wells shall not be permitted for existing dwellings which can be
serviced by the municipal water system. Upon failure of a private water supply, connection to
the municipal system shall be required.
(Ord. No. 6, ~ 1.01,3-11-85)
State law reference-Authority to require connections, M.S..~ 412.221, subd. 31.
c;:: 19-2~nnection charges.
(a) No permit shall be issued to tap or connect with any watermain of the city either
directly or indirectly from any lot or tract of land unless the city clerk shall have certified:
(1) That the lot or tract of land, or portion of said lot or tract, to be served by such
connection to tap has been assessed for the cost of construction of the watermain with
which the connection is made; or
(2) If no assessment has been levied for said construction cost, that proceedings for
levying such assessment have been or will be commenced in due course; or
(3) If no assessment has been levied, and no assessment proceedings will be completed in
due course, that a sum equal to the portion of cost of constructing said watermain has
been paid to the city pursuant to subsection (b).
(b) Unless covered by subsection (aX1) or (aX2), the applicant shall pay a connection fee
equal to the proportionate cost of construction of the main. The cost is to be determined by the
city using the same formulas as was used for assessments previously levied against other
property for the main and shall include equivalency charges as required to arrive at the
present day worth of the water service. This equivalency charge shall be equal to simple
interest calculated from the project assessment date to the service connection date at the rate
of interest at which the bonds sold to finance the project were issued minus a depreciation
factor of three (3) percent per year. If no such assessment has been levied, the cost shall be
determined by the city council, and in determining said cost the council shall take into
consideration the front footage, shape and area of the benefitted lot or tract of land. Upon
1064
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WATER, SEWERS AND SEWAGE DISPOSAL
~ 19-22
written request of the owner of the benefitted property showing good cause, the city council
may provide that the connection charge be specially assessed as a lien against the benefitted
property payable in semi-annual installments for a term of eight (8) years at an interest rate
equal to that at which the project bonds were sold. Unless deferred payment is so authorized,
all connection charges shall be payable in full prior to the issuance of a building permit for
new construction of said benefitted property.
(Ord. No. 6, ~ 7,3-11-85)
~ ~OOk-UP charges. .
(a) In addition to the connection charges set forth herein, a hook-up charge, unless
assessed as a part of public improvement project, shall be levied against each lot or tract of
land, or portion thereof served by the system, for usage of the wells, pumping stations, water
storage facilities, and equipment of the city water system. The amount of this charge shall be
set by the C!ty cou~cil and may periodically be revised to reflect construction cost changes
evidenced by the Engineering News - Record Construction Cost Index.
(b) The number of unit hook-up charges to be levied against each benefitted lot or tract of
land, portion thereof, shall be established using the following criteria:
(1) Single-family houses, townhouses, condominiums and duplex units shall each com-
prise one (1) unit;
(2) Apartments shall each comprise eighty (80) percent of a unit;
(3) Mobile homes shall each comprise one hundred (100) percent of a unit;
(4) Other buildings and structures shall be assigned one unit for each two hundred
seventy four (274) gallons of water usage and sewage flow which it is estimated they
will discharge, and commercial and industrial building units shall be assigned a
minimum of one (1) unit.
(c) The number of unit hook-up charges to be levied against the premises may thereafter
be revised by resolution of the city council to more accurately establish the use, and the
council in making said redetermination may take into account the actual quantity of water
consumed on said premises.
(d) Upon written request of the owner of the benefitted premises showing good cause, the
city council may provide that the hook-up charge be specially assessed against the benefitted
property payable in semi-annual installments for such period and on such terms as the council
may determine. Unless deferred payment is so authorized, all hook-up charges shall be
payable in full prior to the issuance of a building permit for new construction on the property.
(Ord. No. 6, ~8.01, 3-11-85)
Sec. 19-22. Persons authorized to make connections, etc.; bond.
(a) Any work which in any way affects the city's water lines or connections thereto shall
be performed only under the direct supervision of a master plumber licensed by the state.
1065
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BIKE BIKE TWO WAY FARKING
PATH PATH TRAFFIC
.0\5 ,/, .0/51;
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0--- TRUNK WATERMAIN
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BICYCLE TRAIL
OPTION
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MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
~ 12-31
(b) When a fire lane has been ordered to be established pursuant to this section it shall be
marked by a sign bearing the words "No Parking-Fire Lane-by Order of Fire Department"
or striped in a manner to indicate no parking. When the fire lane is on public property or a
public right-of-way, the sign or signs shall be erected by the city, and when on private
property they shall be erected by owner at his own expense within thirty (30) days after he has
been notified of the order.
(c) After a sign has been erected in accordance with subsection (b) of this section, no
person shall park a vehicle or otherwise occupy or obstruct the fire lane.
(Ord. No. 3H, ~ 11.01,8.1-77; Ord. No. 3-J, ~ 1,7-23-84)
Cross reference-Parking near fire hydrant, ~ 9-1.
State law reference-Authority to regulate standing or parking, M.S. ~ 169.04(1).
Sec. 12-15. Parking or standing of vehicles exceeding specified height.
No person shall park or permit to stand any vehicle exceeding six (6) feet six (6) inches in
height on West 78th Street between its intersection with Great Plains Boulevard and Laredo
Drive.
(Ord. No. 3H, ~ 11.02,8-1-77)
State law reference-Authority to regulate parking or standing of vehicles, M.S 9
169.04(1).
.'
Sec. 12-16. Snow emergencies.
In order to expeuite the prompt and efficient removal of snow from the streets of the city,
no person shall stop, stand or park any vehicle or permit it to stand on any street within the
city between November 1 and April 1, between the hours of 2:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. on any
day. No person shall park or allow to stand any vehicle on any street within the city when
snowfall necessitates removal and until such street has been plowed and the snow removed to
the edge of the pavement.
(Ord. No. 3H, ~ 11.05, 8-1-77; Ord. No.3-I, 9 1, 10-4-82)
State law reference-Authority to regulate parking or standing of vehicles, M.S 9
169.04(1).
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Reserved.
ARTICLE II. SNOWMOBILES.
Sec. 12-31. Definitions.
The definitions in Minnesota Statutes section 84.81 apply to this article. The following
words, terms and phrases, when used in this article, shall have the meanings ascribed to them
in this section, except where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:
Boulevard means that portion of the street right-of-way between the curbline and the
street boundary line in platted areas.
.State law references-Snowmobiles, M.S. ~ 84.81 et seq.; local regulations authorized,
M.S. ~ 84.87, subd. 3.
669
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CITY 0 F
CHAHHASSEH
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 j"~tlljn :.v l;r:'/I'(:".1;~:"'~' ,r
Er.dur::;c"~ ~
MEMORANDUM
:,..... :ii~C.~_ __... ____~ ._..__
TO:
~~:~ct:l~ -?'7.-"'--
:J ..---..I._____J.f__
Don Ashworth, City Manager
FROM: Gary Warren, City Engineer
Zll~ff.J.._
D6t~ S:Jnrl'::-:::~1 ~: ':'~";~",:;-:~V'
--......
Date ,';",rc:,:Gd to L<I1clj
DATE: February a, 1989
4
SUBJ: Approve Plans and Specifications and Authorize Taking Bids
for Lake Lucy Road Trunk Watermain Project
File ~o. 88-25
Attached are the construction pl~ns for the Lake Lucy Road trunk
wat2rmain project. These plans were prepared in accordance with
the accepted feasibility study and have had the benefit of citi-
zen input from our January 24, 1989 workshop session. The plans
have been reviewed by the fire inspector and fire chief and fire
hydrants have been placed in accord3nce with their wishes along .
thi5 alignment. In addition, there are seven (7) service
crossing5 under Lake Lucy Road wnich needed to be added to the
scope of the project to provide service to the southerly proper-
ties when they ultimately reque~t it.
The plans at this time do not include any provi5ions for
construction of a bike path over the propo~ed alignment for the
trunk wa~ermain. As noted in the previous agenda item, this
alternative needs to be further reviewed ~ith MnDOT before pro-
ceeding. There is some question whether there is sufficient road
width, even without one bike lane, to allow parking. This will
need to receive MnDOT'g blessing before proceeding.
The total engineer's estimate for the project, including con-
tingencies, and $40,000 for service jackings under Lake Lucy Road
is $472,500. It is estimated that construction of the bike path
over the trunk watermain would add an additional $47,500 to
$63,800 to the project costs, exclusive of any easement costs
which might be needed.
It is therefore recommended that the City Council approve the
attached Lake Lucy Road Trunk Watermain-plans as prepared by the
firm of Westwood Professional Services and authorize the taking
of bids. It i5 further reco~~ended that staff conduct an eva-
l~ati?n and review with MnDOT concerning the acceptability of eli- .
mlnatlng the eastbound bike path from Lake Lucy Road and
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Mr. Don Ashworth
February d, 1989
Page 2
I
1. Plan set.
2. Road section with off-street bike path.
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converting this area to a 6' parking lane. If this is agreeable
to MnDOT, staff is hereby directed to modify the construction
plans for Lake Lucy Road Trunk Watermain to incorporate moving
and construction of the off-road eastbound bike path.
Attachments
cc: Dick Koppy, Westwood
.
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BIKE
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BICYCLE TRAIL
OPTION
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.jetty Council Meeting -.. Jary 23, 1989
c. Chanhassen City Hall Expansion, Confirm Expansion Request, Chanhassen
Library Board for Interim Utilization.
VISITORS PRESENTATION:
Brian Tichy: My name is Brian Tichy. I live at 1471 Lake Lucy Road. '!he
presentation is concernirg the no parking signs on both sides of Lake Lucy Road.
I have a petition that I'd like to present to the Council from the residents of
Lake Lucy Road to try to reconfigure the street so that we are allowed to park
at least on one side of the street or during the winter months due to snow
problems, space problems when you have people over for company am that nature.
Right now, if you have more than 1 or 2 cars, fr iends of yours over, there's no
place for them to park. It becomes a problem particularly in the winter. In
the summer there are places where you can put your visitor's cars but during the
winter there is no space.
Mayor Chmiel: Very fine, may I have that petition please. '!he petition that
we've received, is there any discussion from Council?
Councilman Boyt: Yes. Having seen Brian's driveway, he's got quite a problem
there. Anytime we get 2 or 3 inches of snow, he's going to have a hard time
getting up and down that driveway. 'furning into it much less what happens once
he's into it. I don't know exactly what the City can do because I think there's
some pretty clear State Statutes limiting what the City can do and I'm sure
Brian's aware of those. I'm not sure how many people ride their bicycles out
there after a 2 or 3 inch snowfall but somehow or another I'd sure like to see
the City work to come up with a solution for people who have no place to park.
Councilwoman Dimler: I agree with that. I think that since the bike paths are
not being used during the winter months, the least we can do is to allow them to
park there during the winter months when the parking problem is compounded with
the snow. I'm sure that you'd like to see it to summer months as well.
Brian Tichy: we'd appreciate it if we could park there in the summer months. It
would help if you have more than 2 or 3 friends. we do use the bike lanes.
'!here's a problem obviously with the bike lane that goes to nowhere. '!here are
no bike lanes on CR 117 to the west and CR 17 to the east. People do use the
bike lanes although.. .stay within them. we use them ourselves. Again, if they
could be somehow moved to one side of the road, that may satisfy I guess the
bicycling problems. '!hese are alternatives.
Councilwoman Dimler: I know that Larry, you've already written a letter to
Brian haven't you and in there it stated some of the State Statutes that you
found out and we appreciate the work you did on that. However, I still would
like to see if we can't get together and work out partial parking.
Mayor Chmiel: Any further discussion?
Councilman Workman: '!here are bike lanes on both sides right now?
Mayor Chmiel: Yes there are.
10
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City Council Meeting - January 23, 1989
Counci lman Workman: Have the people who signed the peti tion decided which side
the bike lane would be on or does that not matter to the people?
Councilman Boyt: We can't put it on the same side. State Statute won't allow
us to put two bike lanes on the same side of the road.
Councilman Workman: We only need one bike lane on one side of the road don't
we?
Counci lman Boyt: You can't have a one way bi ke lane. Or two way, one wid th
bike lane. It's very specific. It's sort of like, if you have a highway, you
have to meet limits. If you have a bike lane, you have to live with limits too.
That's what has created the problem.
Councilman Workman: I'm just asking the question. I'm not speaking as an
authori ty .
Councilman Johnson: We built this with State Aid money. Some of the 5 year
plan we're talking about several years ago, in fact it was before Bill and
I were on the Council that this State Aid money was approved. Again, once the
State's got their money involved in the project, we lose same control.
Larry Brown: '!he Ci ty Attorney can veri fy this but from what I dragged out of
the State Statutes, State Statute was very specific in saying that all bicyclsts
shall ride as close as practical to the right hand side of the roadway and that
was the real reason why we're limi ted to putting a two-way bike lane. It was
very clear that it had to be to the right hand side with the direction of
traffic .
Councilman Workman: So do v.e even have to have them or not have them and can v.e
remove them? How are people going to park there then if v.e have to have it on
both sides?
Larry Brown: Sure, that would certainly be an option if you'd like to.
Councilman Workman: We could remove the bike lanes?
Larry Brown: Yes, you could.
Councilman Workman: Would Park and Rec have a problem with that?
Mayor Chmiel: They conceivably could.
Councilman Johnson: I think this should go to Park and Rec. Have they
considered this at this point?
Brian Tichy: I spoke wi th, I can I t remember the gentlanan I s name wi th Park and
Rec and he had it go to Larry Brown.
Don Ashworth: Staff would reconmend that the item be tabled this evening.
Allow us to advertise it. It would be on the next agenda. If there was any
reason it, would not be on that agenda, we would contact Brian. A staff report
would be prepared and look at sane alternatives. I know in the Carver Beach
area v.e have similiar problems and I think that Y.e got around most of those.
11
--_ .-0,
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City Council Meeting - January 23, 1989
The biggest problem was being able to clear snow out at the same time that
vehicles are parked out in the roadway itself. So in some of those instances,
we had to look at trying to work with the imividual owners in fiming some
other spot where they may be able to park, we could still clear snow, etc..
Councilman Johnson: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to suggest also that we get Park am
Ree's feedback on this because it's their trail. Not their trail, it's the
City's trails but they're the keeper of the trail so rather than bring it
imnediately back to the Council before Park and Rec has a chance to put their 2
cents in, I'd like to pass it through to the Park and Rec Cornnission on it's way
back here.
Councilwoman Dirnler: I think Park and Rec meets tomorrow. Can we plt it on
their agenda for tomorrow?
Mayor Olrniel: I'm not sure as to what their agenda would be.
..
Councilman Johnson: I'm not sure staff would be ready for it tomorrow.
Don Ashworth: I was just trying to look at their agenda here. '!hey do have a
meeting tomorrow night. We can take am see if it could be verbally presented
and whether or not they would take action. '!hey, like the Council, like to have
their information early. Get a chance to study it, etc.. Otherwise, that would
put the item to February 27th for City Council.
Lori Sietsema: It would be February 14th is our next meeting.
Don Ashworth: But the next City council following Park and Rec would be the
27th.
Mayor Olrniel: I suggest too that we table it and do as a recorrmendation by Mr.
Ashworth has indicated that this go to the Park and Rec at their February 14th
meeting and then back to the Council on February 27th.
Councilman Johnson: Mr. Mayor, could I suggest that if staff can come up with
an interim solution before Park and Rec looks at it, that we consider that at
our next Council meeting because February 27th, that's a lot of wintertime so go
at a two-prong, interim solution right now. Right away. As quickly as possible
with the full review through Park and Rec also. Conceivably it could be the
13th or the 27th, '!he City will notify and let you know for sure.
Councilman Boyt: I'd just like to point out that it's probably unreasonable to
give this to the Park and Rec Cornnission with no notice. Expect them to make a
corrment on it that means anything am get it back to us for our next meeting.
Councilman Johnson: '!hat's not what I said. Here's a motion. I move that we
sem this to the Park and Recreation Cornnission on February 14th am have it
back to us for February 27th, I believe is our last -meeting in February unless
staff can come up with an interim solution to this, which will be interim until
Park and Rec has had time to review it. In which case, we'd like to see that
interim solution at our next Council meeting which I believe is February 13th.
'Iha t way, we may be able to get something going a little sooner for them. Staff
may cane up am say, hey, we don't see an interim solution that we want to give
to Council without Park and Rec looking at it. In which case, then it delays it
12
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City Council Meeting
~"1> f""'?
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January 23, 1989
another 2 weeks. That's my motion.
Councilwoman Dimler: I second that.
Counci1.l1an Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to direct the Park and
Recreation Commission to review the bike lanes on Lake Lucy Road at their
February 14, 1989 meeting and make a recomnendation to City Council. In the
interim, if staff can come up with a temporary solution to the no parking
problem on Lake Lucy Road, to present that to the City Council at their February
13, 1989 City Council meeting. All votoo in favor am the motion carrioo.
AWARD OF BIDS: PUBLIC WORKS EQUIPMENT.
Gary Warren: Public Works, we have four vehicles that we had budgeted in the
1989 vehicle replacement fume 'll1ree of the vehicles are replacement vehicles
for equipnent that has many good years of service on it am one of the other
vehicles is a new vehicle to recognize the budgeted expansion in the Park and
Rec Department of a new employee this year. We also have included with the bids
here and the 1 ton vehicle, the equipment for snow plowing. 'll1e plow box and
the sander since this vehicle will be utilizoo for plowing snow in the Carver
Beach area. We feel we've got some very good competi ti ve bids and we've
attachoo the vehicle specifications to the packet here. Basically, as an
overview, including radios and sales tax, etc., we're looking at a total award
of $69,287.04. OUr budget for these items was $75,200.00 so we're very pleased
with the bids that went on and it's equipment that I'm sure we'll be putting to
good use this year.
Resolution #89-07: Councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Workman seconded to
award the Public Works Equipnent bid to Superior Ford for the 1/2 ton pickup at
$11,187.00; the two 3/4 ton pickups from Waconia Ford at $14,070.00 each; the 1
ton cab am chassis from Bob Ryan Ford for $14.757.00; the box am sander from
Midland Equipment at $5,584.00 and $1,596.00; and the snowplow from Crysteel
Truck Equipnent at $1,598.00. All votoo in favor am the motion carrioo.
AWARD OF BIDS: TELEPHONE EQUIPMENT FOR CITY HALL/FIRE STATION.
Jim Chaffee: A few months ago we started looking at expaming our present
system, telephone system in the new addition to the City Hall. At the same time
we were looking at upgrading the system at the Fire Station. Recognizing that 8
years ago we purchased our present existing system in City Hall for a little
under $15,000.00, we also recognizoo that the present system is at it's capacity
right now am it is considered obsolete with the advances that are being made in
the high tech industry of telephone comnunications. With that "in mind, we set
out to look at either overhauling the entire system or expanding the present
system with it's outdatoo features. We did get together with many vendors, 18
as I've ind icated in the memo, to seek bids for upgrad ing our present system to
include the addition to City Hall am the Fire Station. We did initially get
interest from 18 vendors. However, when it came time to bid, we only received 6
bids. Of those 6, as I've outlinoo in the memo, AT&T was the highest.
Executorte was the lowest. Unfortunately, only one system met all our
13
Centex Real Estate Corp.
5959 Baker Rd., Ste. 300
MinnetoIlKa, MN 55345
, & K Pasthumius
0550 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
J Cook & K Huntington
1291 Stratton Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
K. Broughton
1301 Stratton Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
H & S Bergquist
1311 Stratton Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
B & K Erdahl
1.321 Stratton Court
lanhassen, MN 55317
C & L Carlson
1341 Stratton Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
'-
B & A Kotzian
1340 Stratton Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
R & M Thanpson
1330 Stratton Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
J & J Thornberg
1320 Stratton Court
Chanbassen, MN 55317
J & M Benson
1310 Stratton Court
Chanhassen, ~~~ 55317
T & K Clarke
6510 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
J & M O'Niel
6511 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
D Bearroad & T Nelson
6490 Bretton Way
Chanhassen, MN 55317
T & J Schaffer
6501 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
C & J Hughes
6480 Bretton Way
Chanhassen, MN 55317
D & D George
6491 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
R & DOrgan
6470 Bretton Way
Chanhassen, MN 55317
F Kenyon & N Christianson
6500 We1s1ey Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
R & L Borders
6491 Bretton Way
Chanhassen, MN 55317
J & M Willman
6510 Welsely Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
G & J Brower
6611 Arlington Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
.
M Mieson & S Loftus .
6520 Welsley Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
D & A Dye
6621 Arlington Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
T & D Given
6521 We1sely Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
J & B Spiess
6610 Arlington Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
J & M Jetlund
6511 We1s1ey Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
S & S Hullander
6541 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
K & D Cooksey
6501 Welsely Court
Chanhassen, MN 55317
T & P Potter
6531 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
J & N Donovan
1375 Lilac Lane
Excelsior, MN 55331
S & M BielsKi
6521 Devonshire Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
.
Mr. & Mrs. Mike Moshier
1761 Pheasant Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
.. & Mrs. Lee Peterson
~760 Pheasant Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Tom DroegeIIUleller
1740 Pheasant Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Joe Schirnml
1751 Pheasant Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Tom Steinkamp
1771 Pheasant Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
.. & Mrs. Al Ramsey
20 White Dove Drive
celsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Mike Bomstad
1810 Ringneck Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Mark Brzezinski
1751 Ringneck Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Mark Lewis
1771 Ringneck Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. John Thedinga
1800 Ringdeck Drive
411Jce1sior, Mn 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Stan Heinsch
1800 Pheasant Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Steven Thomas
1810 Pheasant Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Dan Gabler
1780 Pheasant Circle
Excelsior, MN
Mr. & Mrs. Todd Coumbe
1791 Ringneck Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Jim Benson
1820 Ringneck Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Steve Slyce
6511 White Dove Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Tom Kraker
6441 White Dove Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Jeff Peshek
6480 White Dove Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Mark Prchal
6410 White Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Clarence Schmidt
6450 White Dove Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Aadne Eliassen
6460 White Dove Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Skip Gjersdal
6431 White Dove Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Pat Johnson & Mary Cordell
1730 Lake Lucy Lane
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Mike Koester
1780 Ringneck Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Doug Schroeder
1790 Ringneck Drive
Excelsior, Mn 55331
Mr. & Mrs. David Barnes
6290 Cardinal Avenue
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Dick Pierce
1880 Partridge Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
Mr. & Mrs. Bob Beeset
1885 Partridge Circle
Excelsior, MN 55331
-.
B & M Johnson
6621 Galpin Blvd.
Excelsior, MN 55331
M & C Riddersen
13532 W. Arthur Street
Minnetonka, MN 55343
& W Buresh
133 18th Ave. South
Hopkins, MN 55343
.
S & K Gavin
705 Grant Street
Excelsior, MN 55331
C & S Ramsey
6681 Galpin Blvd.
Excelsior, MN 55331
M & T Williams
1655 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
M & D Manlove
6691 Galpin Blvd.-
Excelsior, MN 55331
D & M Shrader
14433 Fairway Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
J & M Waldron
338 Tyler Ave. North
Hopkins, MN 55343
J & T Kraker
6441 White Dove Drive
Excelsior, MN 55331
J & M Gorczyca
. ~50 Lake Lucy Road
.celsior, MN 55331
M&KSanda
1685 Steller Court
Excelsior, MN 55331
.
A & K Peterson
6697 Countryside Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
E & N Rivkin
5525 Conifer Trail
Minnetonka, MN 55345
M & D Steinkraus
- 1800 Lake Lucy Road
. Excelsior, MN 55317
A & B Finstad
1701 Steller Court
Excelsior, MN 55331
J & C Gill
1800 W. 67th St.
Excelsior, MN 55331
Judith Dirks
9799 Brighton Lane
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
P. Johnson & M. Cordell
1730 Lake Lucy Lane
Excelsior, MN 55331
Greenery Co.
Attn: Don Mezzenga
5816 Dickens Ave.
Minnetonka, MN 55345
.
P. McAllister
7510 Erie Ave.
Chanhassen, MN 55317
R & L Guthmiller
1801 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
John Clark
1215 Lake Lucy Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
.chard Ersbo
1251 Lake Lucy Road
Chanhassen, MN 55331
Richard Ortenblad
1351 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Thecrlore Coey
1381 Lake Lucy Road
Chanhassen, MN 55331
Joseph Morin
15820 South Eden Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55346
~. an Tichy
1 Lake Lucy Road
.celsior, MN 55331
Robert Christiansen
1511 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Warren Phillips
1571 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Rosalee Dodd
200 First Federal Building
320 North 4th Street
Bismark, NO 58501
Janes Mielke
1645 Lake Lucy Road
.elsior, MN 55331
Mark Williams
1655 ~e Lu~ Road
Excelslor, MN 55331
Daniel Shrader
14433 Fairway Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
Helen Jacques
1210 Lake Lucy Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Allen Finstad
1710 Steller Court
Excelsior, MN 55331
Alfred Harvey
1430 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Judith Dirks
808 East Breu Avenue
Olivia, MN 56277
Elizabeth Glaccum
1510 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Magnus Manlove
6691 Galpin Blvd.
Excelsior, MN 55331
Terrance O'Brien
1420 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
John Waldron
338 Tyler Avenue North
Hopkins, MN 55343
Alm::>nd Krueger
1600 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
John Gorczyca
1850 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
The Greenery COmpany
c/o Don Mezzenga
5816 Dickens Avenue
Minnetonka, MN 55345
Alan Peterson
6697 Countryside Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
Reinhold Guthmiller
1801 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Merle Steinkraus
1800 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55317
Melvin Babatz
1650 Lake Lucy ~oad
Excelsior, MN 55331
Jerry Gill
1800 West 67th Street
Excelsior, MN 55331
Philip Mathiowetz
1630 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Patrick Johnson
1730 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Janes Pal.mer
1670 Lake Lucy Road
Excelsior, MN 55331
Paul McAllister
7510 Erie Avenue
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Larry Kerber
6420 Powers Boulevard
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Christopher Eiman
1206 Lake Lucy Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
.
Diane Stegner
1180 Lake Lucy Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Daniel Rogers &
Sharon Peterson Rogers
1200 Lake Lucy Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
.
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.
CITY OF
CBANBASSEN
!J-
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
17
DATE:
March 9, 1989
SUBJ:
Southern Parkland Acquisition
.
Attached please find a map with the different potential park
sites highlighted. As you may recall, the Commission looked at
each of the sites and directed staff to contact landowners for
prices and willingness to sell. Unfortunately, some of the
pieces are grandfathered in on the 2t acre minimum lot size and,
therefore, the owners are unwilling to sell. I have asked Al
Klingelhutz to attend our next meeting as he is most familiar
with this area and has talked with most of the landowners.
Hopefully he will be able to shed some light as to the availabi-
lity of land parcels in the southern area.
.
.
4
CITY OF
0iAtI-iASSEN
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
'111
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
DATE: February 23, 1989
SUBJ: Vending License Request, Lake Ann Park
Gary Lindgren
.
As can be seen from the attached letter, Gary Lindgren, President
of Domo Products, Inc., would like to operate a concession wagon
at Lake Ann Park beach for the summer of 1989. A representative
of Domo Products will be present on Tuesday evening to discuss
this proposal in detail and to answer any questions from the
Co~~ission. Domo Products worked with the City on one previous
occasion when serving popcorn at the Oktoberfest event early last
fall.
The provision of this service at Lake Ann Park would enhance the
recreational experience at the beach area, as many requests for
concessions are received each year; however, to ensure this
result, careful selection of a generator would be necessary. It
would be very undesireable to operate this wagon with a generator
which is loud enough to create a distraction.
An additional request to vend at Lake Ann Park has been received
through a phone conversation from a representative of Blue Bell
Ice Cream. However, staff recommends that only one vendor be
licensed to operate in Lake Ann Park per year. As Domo Products,
Inc.'s proposal includes a greater variety of items, it is recom-
mended that their request be approved.
~
~f~1 Update (March 9, 1989): This item was tabled from the February
N 28, 1989 agenda to allow all intereted parties to submit a propo-
sal. Since that time a written proposal from Blue Belle Ice Cream
~ has been received and the newly formed Lion's Club has withdrawn
Attached is an updated agreement between the City of Chanhassen
and Domo Products, Inc. Upon the satisfaction of the Commission
that this arrangement and the terms of this agreement are accep-
table, and upon Mr. Lindgren verifying that he will comply with
the terms of the agreement, a copy will be executed.
Park and Recreation Commission
Update - March 9, 1989
Page 2
.
their request. The two proposals which have been received are
different in a number of ways.
Domo Products, Inc., proposes to vend from a wagon which is
transported with a separate vehicle, and Blue Belle would vend
from a concession vehicle. Domo's wagon would be operated by a
local couple, and Blue Belle's vehicle would be operated by an
independent contractor. The items to be served are different in
each proposal. Lastly, both companies or representatives of each
have previously requested to vend in the City of Chanhassen.
Domo Products, Inc., was granted approval to sell popcorn and
peanuts at the Oktoberfest Celebration held last fall. Blue
Belle Ice Cream and/or representatives of that company, have
requested permission to vend in the City of Chanhassen and Lake
Ann Park. They were never granted approval to do so, but on
occasions have attempted to vend despite this. My personal
experience with this occurred last summer when a Blue Belle Ice
Cream salesman called and requested to vend at Lake Ann Park over
the 4th of July. His request was denied; however, two trucks did
arrive at Lake Ann Park and had to be asked to leave.
It remains the recommendation of staff to accept the request from
Domo Products, Inc., to provide concessions at Lake Ann Park.
.
Update March 22, 1989): Upon receiving the staff report update
of March 9, 1989, a representative of Blue Belle Ice Cream called
to withdraw their proposal. Therefore, the Park and Recreation
Commission accepted the proposal from Domo Products, Inc., with
the following clarifications being made. Domo Products will not
act as the "concessionaire". They are selling a vending wagon to
a local couple who will be the "concessionaire". Emphasis was
put on item #4 of the agreement concerning refuse pick up. It
was also emphasized that the generator being purchased to
operate the wagon must operate at a very minimal noise level.
Lastly, the Commission directed staff to work with the
"concessionaire" in choosing an appropriate location for the
vending wagon to operate from.
.
.
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612.729-5205
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Domo Products, Inc.
15202 Crestview Lane
Minnetonka, Minnesota USA 55345
612-933-7343
January 24, 1989
Todd Hoffman
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, Mn. 55317
Dear Todd,
As per our phone conversation of January 23, 1989, we are
requesting approval of the following by the City Council.
We will be providing a concession wagon at the Lake Ann Beach
for the summer of 1989 beginning Memorial Day weekend and ending
Labor Day weekend. The hours of service would of course be subject
to weather conditions on a day to day basis however, a seven day
week is planned with hours of between 10 to 11 A.M. to 6 to 8 P.M.
depending on the needs. The wagon will be brought in daily and
removed at the end of use each day. A portable generator will
be used for the source of power.
Items to be served will be as follows:
Soft Ice Cream Cones and Frozen Ice Cream Products
Hot Dogs
Popcorn
Nachos and Cheese
Peanuts and Candy Bars
Four Flavors of Soft Drinks
The wagon to be used the first year will be a 7' X 10' unit.
The construction and equipment meet all NSF standards.
If the first season goes well, we could provide a larger unit
in 1990 which could serve more food products. We would also like
to request the 1st option for serving the Lake Ann Beach for the
next years until such time as a permanent facility is built by
the City of Chanhassen.
Your prompt consideration for our service to your beach is
greatly appreciated as we will have to reserve one of our wagons
specifically for this purpose.
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Sincerely,
ry M. Lindgren, Pres.
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CITY-OF CHANHASSEN
AGREEMENT ~
THIS AGREEMENT, dated this day of
1989, between the CITY OF CHANHASSEN, a Minnesota municipal
corporation (hereinafter HCityH), and DOMO PRODUCTS, INC.,
(hereinafter HConcessionaireH).
NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of their mutual
covenants the parties agree as follows:
1. The Concessionaire may operate a mobile food
concession wagon in Lake Ann Park.
2. Ten percent (10%) of the Concessionaire's gross
revenue, excluding sales tax, from the concession shall be paid
to the City. Concessionaire shall provide weekly reports of
business profits to the City Manager and shall pay the fee to the ~
City on the 1st day of each month for the previous month during
the term of this Agreement.
3. Concessionaire shall have a current license from the
State Board of Health to prepare and sell food from the
concession and the license shall be prominently posted on the
concession wagon.
4. Concessionaire shall pick up refuse within a
reasonable are surrounding the concession wagon on a daily basis.
5. Concessionaire shall not dispense any items of food
or drink in glass containers from the concession wagon.
6. Concessionaire shall maintain regular business hours
as weather permits for the convenience of park users. Hours of
operation shall be posted on the concession wagon in full view of ~
.
the public; however, said concession wagon shall not open sooner
than 9:00 a.m. nor close later than 10:00 p.m. daily.
7. The concession wagon shall be located only in areas
of Lake Ann Park authorized and approved by the City Manager and
Concessionaire shall not drive on the lawn when the grounds are
wet and damage to the sod may occur.
8. The Concessionaire agrees not to sell tobacco or
beer.
9. Concessionaire shall indemnify and hold harmless the
city Council, agents, and employees of the City from and against
all claims, damages, losses, or expenses, including attorney's
fees, which the City Council, agents, or employees of the City
may suffer or for which it may be held liable arising out of or
~ resulting from the assertion against them of any claims, debts,
obligations, consequence of the performance of this Agreement by
Concessionaire, its employees or agents.
10. Concessionaire acknowledges that it is an independent
contractor and not an employee or agent of the City.
11. The City reserves the right to authorize other
vendors in the Park.
12. Concessionaire shall take out and maintain during the
term of this Agreement liability and property damage insurance
covering its business in the park. Limits for bodily injury or
death shall be not less than $300,000 for one person and $500,000
for each occurrence; limits for property damage shall be not less
than $100,000 for each occurrence. The City shall be named as an
~ additional insured on the policy.
-2-
13. This Agreement shall be in full force and effect from ~
May 1, 1989, through September 5, 1990. The City reserves the
right to terminate this Agreement at any time, with or without
cause.
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
BY:
Don Ashworth, City Manager
DOMO PRODUCTS, INC.
BY:
Gary M. Lindgren, President
~
~
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
PRC DATE:
March 14, 1989
C.C. DATE:
CASE NO:
89-3 SUB
7
Prepared by: Sietsema/v
STAFF
REPORT
PROPOSAL:
Replat of Two Lots Into One Lot and Site Plan Review
for an Office/Manufacturing/Warehouse Facility
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LOCATION:
Northeast Corner of CR 17 and Lake Drive
APPLICANT:
AMCON Corporation
200 W. Hwy. 13
Burnsville, MN 55337
Empak, Inc.
1501 Park Road
Chanhassen, MN
5531
PRESENT ZONING:
lOP, Industrial Office Park
ACREAGE:
12.61 acres
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
N-
lOP
S- Lake Susan Park
E- lOP
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PARKS & TRAILS:
This parcel lies within the service area of Lak
Susan Park. Sidewalks will be constructed alon
Lake Drive. The Comprehensive Trail Plan calls
for an 8 foot wide bituminous trail along
Powers Boulevard.
AMCON/Empak, Inc.
March 14, 1989
Page 2
RECOMMENDATION
This proposal lies within the service area of Lake Susan Park and
therefore would not require a dedication of parkland. Although
the sidewalk along Lake Drive will be installed with street
construction, the 8 foot wide trail along Powers Boulevard should
be continued.
It is the recommendation of this office to accept park dedication
fees in lieu of parkland. Also, it is recommended that the
developer install an 8 foot wide bituminous trail along Powers
Boulevard to continue that alignment. Additionally, it is recom-
mended that a 100% trail fee credit be given for the trail
construction.
.
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CITY 0 F
CHANHASSEN
PRC DATE:
March 14, 1989
C.C. DATE:
CASE NO:
87-3 PUD
i
Prepared by: Sietsema/v
STAFF
REPORT
PROPOSAL:
Subdivision of 50.49 Acres into 76 Single Family Lot
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LOCATION:
East and West Of Powers Boulevard, South of
Chanhassen Lakes Business Park
APPLICANT:
Argus Development
18133 Cedar Avenue
Farmington, MN 55024
PRESENT ZONING:
PUD-R, Planned Unit Development Residential
ACREAGE:
50.49 acres
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND L~ND USE:
N-
lOP; Industrial/Office Park
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S- A2; Agricultural Estate
E- PUD-R; Lake Susan Hills
W- A2; Agricultural Estate
PARKS & TRAILS:
Lake Susan Park is the only existing park in the
area which serves as a community park. The
Lake Susan Hills West PUD agreement calls for
the dedication of outlots for park purposes,
and the grading of those outlots. Additionally
the agreement states that sidewalks and trails
shall be installed by the developer and a 20 foo
trail easement dedicated along Powers Blvd.
.
.
.
Lake Susan Hills West
March 14, 1989
Page 2
BACKGROUND
The Lake Susan Hills West Development was just brought before
the City to get PUD Approval. At that time, the developer and
the City entered into an agreement outlining the specifics that
went along with approval (see attached). The agreement states
that the developer will dedicate the outlots for parkland and
grade those parcels to the city's specifications. For such dedi-
cation, the city agreed to allow a 50% credit on park dedication
fees.
Additionally, the developer agreed to install 5 foot wide
sidewalks along the through streets within the development, 8
foot wide bituminous trails along the east side of Powers
Boulevard and the east side of Audubon Road, and dedicate a 20
foot wide trail easement along the west side of Powers Boulevard.
The City has agree to allow 100% reduction in trail dedication
fees for such.
The Recreation Section of the Comp Plan has been revised to
include these parcels and such should be required.
RECOMMENDATION
It is the recommendation of this office to request park dedica-
tion of Outlots A and B and require the grading of those outlots
in accordiance with grading plans to be provided by the City.
Also, to require the installation of 5 foot wide sidewalks along
the through streets within the development, 8 foot wide trails
along the east side of Powers Boulevard and east side of Audubon
Road, and a 20 foot wide trail easement be dedicated along the
west side of Powers Boulevard; as is outlined in Sections 4 and 5
of the Planned Unit Development Contract dated November 16, 1987.
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PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT
AGREEMENT, dated November 16, 1987, between the CITY OF
CHANHASSEN, a Minnesota municipal corporation (the Ncity"), and LAKE
SUSAN HILLS, a Minnesota general partnership, and JAMES A. CURRY and
BARBARA CURRY, husband and wife (the NDeveloperN).
1. Request for Planned unit Development Approval. The
Developer has asked the City to approve a Planned Unit Development to be
known as "LAKE SUSAN HILLS WEST PUD" (the NDevelopment") on the land
legally described on the attached Exhibit NA".
2. Planned Unit Development Concept Approval. The City hereby
grants general Concept Plan approval of the plan attached as Exhibit
"B". Approval is subject to the following: development and final stage
.
approval, a negative declaration of the EAW, compliance with the EAW
review findings and compliance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement. Except as modified herein, each plat shall also be subject to
the standards of the City's zoning and Subdivision Ordinances as may be
amended from time to time.
3. Density and Use. The following densities are approximate
and subject to change:
A. Single Family Residential. The total number of single
family lots in the development shall not exceed 411. Except as modified
herein, single family lots shall be developed in accordance with the
uses, standards, and requirements of the RSF Zoning District.
B. Multiple Family (High Density Residential). The
development shall provide a minimum of 21.5 acres of high density
.- multiple family residential units. The total number of dwellinijEKni~~~f
NOV 1 9 1987
r11/16/87
CITY OF CHANHA~SEN
~ ",
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high density multiple family residential property shall not exceed 375, ~
or a density greater than 17.4 units per acre. Except as modified
herein, the development of the high density multiple family residential
shall be in accordance with the uses, standards, and requirements of the
R-12 Zoning District.
C. Multiple Family (Mixed Medium Density Residential). The
development shall provide a minimum of 23.6 acres of mixed medium
density residential units. The total number of dwelling units of mixed
medium density residential property shall not exceed 221, or a density
greater than 9.3 units per acre. Except as modified herein, the
development of the mixed medium density residential shall be in
accordance with the uses, standards, and requirements of the R-8 Zoning
District.
4. Parks. The Developer shall dedicate to the City Outlot F ~
(18.1 acres), Outlot G (9.8 acres), Outlot H (3.9 acres), and Outlot E.
A credit of 6.7 acres for park dedication will be given for Outlot E.
Unless otherwise required by the City, conveyances of the park land
shall be made when the final plat, wherein a park is located, is signed
by the city. The land shall be platted as Outlots and transferred to the
City by warranty deed. The Developer, at its sole cost, shall grade the
land for the City in accordance with a timetable and plans to be
furnished by the City. The Developer shall be given a credit of 50% of
the park fee per dwelling unit in the plat for the conveyance of the
above described land to the City. The balance of the park dedication
fees shall be paid in cash in an amount and- at the time required by City
ordinance and policies in effect when final plats are approved.
~
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, .
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5. Trail and Sidewalk Development. The Developer shall
dedicate trails and sidewalks throughout the Development to the City as
indicated on the Comprehensive Trail Plan. This dedication satisfies the
City's trail dedication fee requirements. Trails shall be completed at
the time street improvements are constructed in the phase where the
trails and sidewalks or portions thereof are located. The Developer
shall construct the following trails and sidewalks:
(1). Eight (8) foot wide bituminous trail along the west
side of Lake Susan.
(2). Eight (8) foot wide bituminous off-street trail along
the east side of Audobon Road: and an eight (8) foot
wide bituminous off-street trail along the east side
of Powers Boulevard.
(3). Five (5) foot wide concrete off-street trail-sidewalk
along one side of all internal streets except cul-
de-sacs when the streets are constructed.
.
(4) .
Twenty (20) foot wide bituminous off-street trail
easement on the west side of Powers Boulevard. This
trail segment shall only be constructed if ordered by
the city Council. If ordered, the Developer will
convey the easement to the City without cost, but the
City will pay for the construction. Construction
timing will be at the discretion of the City Council.
6. Additional Conditions of Approval.
A. The Developer shall provide buffer areas, acceptable to
the City, between multiple family and single family areas to assure
adequate transition between uses, including use of berms, landscaping,
and setbacks from lot lines.
B. The Developer shall not damage or remove any trees
except as indicated on the grading and tree removal plans to be approved
by the City and submitted with each plat. Trees shall be protected from
destruction by snow fences, flagging, staking, or other similar means
. during grading and construction.
-3-
, .
. ,
C. Wetlands Nos. 14-10 and 23-01 as shown in Exhibit "G~ ~
shall be preserved in their natural state.
D. The following shall be the maximum percentage of
allowable impervious surface: Outlot A 32%, Outlot B 30%, Outlot C 31%,
and Outlot D 27%.
E. The Developer shall provide $500.00 of landscaping per
multiple family unit and $150.00 per single family unit.
7. Effect of Planned Unit Development Approval. For five (5)
years from the date of this Agreement, no amendments to the City's
Comprehensive Plan, or official controls shall apply to or affect the
use, development, density, lot size, lot layout, or dedications of the
development unless required by state or federal law or agreed to in
writing by the City and the Developer. Thereafter, notwithstanding
anything in this Agreement to the contrary, to the full extent permitte~
by state law, the City may require compliance with any amendments to the
City's Comprehensive Plan, official controls, platting or dedicating
requirements enacted after the date of this Agreement.
8. Phased Development. The Developer shall develop the
development in eleven (11) phases in accordance with the EAW. No earth
moving or other development shall be done in any phase prior to approval
of final plats and development contract for the phase by the City.
9. Compliance with Laws and Regulations. The Developer
represents to the City that the proposed development complies with all
applicable City, County, Metropolitan, State, and Federal laws and
regulations, including but not limited to: SUbdivision Ordinances,
Zoning Ordinances, and Environmental Regulations. The Developer agrees
to comply with such laws and regulations.
~
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C ITV 0 F
CHAHHASSEH
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
d
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
DATE: March 9, 1989
SUBJ: 1989 Ice Skating Program Review
.
As can be seen from the attached sheet, six varieties of skating
lessons were offered over two separate time periods. Returning
Instructor Toni Swiggum, with the help of her daughter Nikki,
were hired to teach all lessons. The amount of positive comments
and praise we receive concerning Toni's ability to instruct these
classes continues to be tremendous. All lessons were originally
scheduled to be held outdoors at City Center Park. Unpredictable
weather eventually forced us to move all lessons to the indoor
rink. Depending on the status of the indoor rink next year, all
lessons would be held indoors. An inquiry to the Ice Skating
Institute of America will be made to explore the possibility of
implementing their lesson program in Chanhassen next year. Toni
is a certified instructor under the ISlA and is very willing to
assist in this process.
Attached is a breakdown of registration numbers and costs. The
overwhelming popularity of beginning lessons will allow staff to
adapt next years lessons to meet these needs. This program is
catagorized as self-supporting and met that requirement this
year.
.
.
SCHOOL VACATION LESSONS
(Instructor Cost)
Attendance Revenue Expenditures
Adult and Tot 5 $ 30.00 $ 30.00
Beginning Adult 0 0 0
Hockey/Boys Power 6 $ 36.00 $ 36.00
JANUARY/FEBRUARY LESSONS
Tots 9 $108.00 $ 60.00
Adult & Tot 0 0 0 .
School Kids Beginners 24 $288.00 $270.00
School Kids Skaters 7 $ 84.00 $ 70.00
TOTALS 51 $546.00 $460.00
Excess revenue covers cost of advertising.
.
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SKATING
I
ICE SKATING RINKS
Chanhassen has both indoor and outdoor ice skating facilities for
figure skating and hockey enthusiasts. Skating is free on all out-
door rinks and it is free during family "open skating" hours at the
indoor rink.
OUTDOOR RINKS
Outdoor rinks can be found at several locations throughout the
City. They will be flooded and opened about Dee. 15, or as soon
as weather permits.
Open skating rinks are located at Carver Beach Playground, Rice
Marsh Lake Park, Minnewashta Heights Park, North Lotus Lake
Park and City Center Park. The City Center Park site also includes
two hockey rinks.
All outdoor rinks will be closed when the wind chill factor
reaches 25 degrees below zero one hour before scheduled open-
ing. Rinks are also closed when school is cancelled due to
weather.
A warminghouse is available at City Center Park and an attendant
will be on duty during the following hours:
Weekdays 3:30-9 p.m. Sundays Noon-9 p.m.
Saturdays 10:00-9 p.m.
The hours during Christmas vacation will be:
December 23 thru January 2
December 24
December 25
. INDOOR RINKS
Now in its fourth season, the Chanhassen Indoor Ice Rink will
open about Dee. 15. It is located just south of the Dinner Theatre
complex in the old scene shop.
A natural ice rink, it is % the size of a standard rink and it is ideal
for youth hockey, adult four-man hockey, adult four-man broom-
ball and skating parties.
A schedule for activities has been developed and ice time is
available to groups interested in renting the arena. For rental in-
formation or reservations call The Chanhassen Park and Recrea-
tion Department at 937-1900.
Below is the tentative schedule for the indoor facility:
Weekdays
10 a.m.-9 p.m.
10 a.m.-3 p.m.
Closed
Open Skating
Hockey
Adult Recreation
3:30-5:30 p.m.
6-8:00 p.m.
8-10:00 p.m.
Weekends
.
Hockey 9-3:00 p.m.
Open Skating 3-8:00 p.m.
Adult Recreation 8-10:00 p.m.
If you are a member of a group interested in reserving ice time at
either the indoor or outdoor rinks call the Chanhassen Park and
Recreation Department at 937-1900.
ICE SKATING LESSONS
Skating lessons for children age 3 and up and adults of all ages are
being offered at City Center Park. Returning instructor Toni Swig-
gum will be teaching with help from an additional teacher if re-
quired. Each lesson is '12 hour long, with time for practice skating
afterwards. ARRIVE 30 MINUTES EARLY FOR YOUR FIRST
LESSON. Registrations for classes will close one week prior to
classes beginning.
NOTE: Classes and class time may be subject to cancellations or
change depending on the number of registrations received. Par-
ticipants will be notified in advance of any changes.
SCHOOL V ACA liON LESSONS
ADULT & TOT
For preschool tots, 3 and 4 years old and a parent. Emphasis is on
learning to stand, fall and move on the ice while having fun.
Class Max: 10 Class Min: 6 Number of Sessions: 3
Fee: $6.00
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
December 28
December 29
December 30
1:30-2:00 p.m.
1:30-2:00 p.m.
10:30-11:00 a.m.
BEGINNING ADULT CLASS
For any age adults looking for some guidance in getting started in
this life long recreational activity.
Class Max: 8 Class Min: 6
Fee: $6.00
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Number of Sessions: 3
December 28
December 29
December 30
1 :30-2:00 p.m.
1 :30-2:00 p.m.
10:30-11:00 a.m. .
HOCKEY/BOYS POWER
For boys ages 5 to 10 years. Classes are separated into two groups .
5-7 years and 8-10 years. No sticks are used, emphasis is on .
skating skills.
Class Max: 8 Class Min: 6 Number of Sessions: 3
Fee: $6.00
Ages 5-7 years
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Ages 8-10 years
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
December 28
December 29
December 30
2:00-2:30 p.m.
2:00-2:30 p.m.
11 :00-11 :30 a.m.
December 28
December 29
December 30
2:00-2:30 p.m.
2:00-2:30 p.m.
11 :00-11 :30 a.m.
JANUARY/FEBRUARY LESSONS
TOTS
For preschool tots, 3 and 4 years old. Emphasis is on learning to
stand, fall and move on the ice while having fun.
Class Max: 8 Class Min: 6 Number of Sessions: 7
Fee: $12.00
Wednesdays Jan. 11-Feb. 22 3:30-4:00 p.m.
ADULT & TOT
For preschool tots, 3 and 4 years old and a parent. Emphasis is on
learning to stand, fall and move on the ice while having fun.
Class Max: 10 Class Min: 6 Number of Sessions: 7
Fee: $12.00
Wednesdays Jan. ll-Feb. 22 4:00-4:30 p.m.
SCHOOL KIDS BEGINNERS
For school age kids grades K-S. with little or no skating ex-
perience. Will learn basic skating skills including how to glide
and stop.
Class Max: 8 Class Min: 6 Number of Sessions: 7
Fee: $12.00
Thursdays Jan. 12-Feb. 23 3:30-4:00 p.m.
SCHOOL KIDS SKATERS
For school age kids grade K-5 with some ~kJting experience. Will
learn backward skating and work on strengthening overall
skating skills.
Class Max: 10 Class Min: 6 Number of Sessions: 7
Fee: $12.00
Thursdays Jan. 12-Feb. 23 4:00-4:30 p.m.
19
CITY 0 F
eHANHASSEN
I J
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
-#
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
DATE: March 9, 1989
SUBJ: Softball Update
League meetings for the Women's, 35 and Over, Men's Open and
Co-Rec Leagues were held on March 7 and 8 to discuss alternatives
to the new eligibility rules established for 1989. As a result
of those meetings, all the above named leagues have agreed to
operate under the following eligibility rules:
1. All 1988 players who are on file on the 1988 rosters at City
Hall can continue to play in the league.
2. Any new teams which enter the league must meet the new eligi-
bility requirement of having all players live or work within
the physical boundaries of Chanhassen with the exception of
four outside players being allowed.
.
3. Any non-resident who discontinues to be a rostered player
will not be allowed to re-enter the league unless that person
accounts for one of the four outside players.
4. Grandfathered players may switch teams in the league and
teams may change sponsors if the above guidelines are still
fulfilled.
5. Any new players entering the league must provide proof of
residence and/or work location. This includes a copy of a
current drivers license or pay check stub listing the
player's and company name. Any grandfathered player whose
work or residence location is questioned, must provide proof
of one or both.
6. All teams have agreed to accept flexibility in the scheduling
of league games. This may include, but is not limited to,
playing games on Friday evening and/or playing games at field
locations other than Lake Ann.
NO EXCEPTIONS TO THE ABOVE RULES WILL BE CONSIDERED.
.
.
.
.
Park and Recreation Commission
March 9, 1989
Page 2
The key element of these new rules is that all teams have agreed
to be flexible in scheduling games to allow greater use of the
field space by Babe Ruth and Little League. It was fortunate
that DataServ agreed to allow the City use of their two fields or
this compromise would not have been feasible.
Although it may seem the process which was used to reach these
new eligibility rules was a painful one, staff believes a similar
fate would have resulted if different steps were taken. We can
now move ahead with the softball leagues knowing that future
conflicts will be resolved by referring to the eligibility rules
which were ado9ted by these four leagues.
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
//.;
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
Ls
DATE:
March 10, 1989
SUBJ:
Rotating Chair
As was discussed at our last meeting, there is some concern over
the rotation of the chairperson position. Don Ashworth has asked
the City Attorney, Roger Knutson, to determine whether or not
this procedure is legal. Mr. Knutson's response indicated that
under the current ordinance such is indeed legal. He suggested
that if this procedure is not acceptable to the City Council, .
they should revise the current ordinance.
The Park and Recreation Commission must determine at this point
if they wish to continue the pOlicy of rotating the chair posi-
tion and push the issue. I have scheduled this item on the
agenda so that time is reserved for your discussion.
.
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PLAYGROUND INSTALLATIONS - 1988
- '\4t1~ t1l~ ~ \;f t
C~
City of Oak Park Heights
Especially for Children
42nd Bryant
Eagan
Eden prairie
Holy Trinity
749 6th Ave. So.
South St. Paul
City of Minnetonka
City of Blaine
Eastside Park
107th & National
Burnamwood Homes
193 Burnamwood Drive
Burnsville
Children at Work
8885 Evergreen
Coon Rapids
.-:Jt- City of Edina
- f\ Lake Cornelia Pool Park
4300 W. 66th Street
Como Specialty School
780 W. Wheelock Pkwy.
St. Paul
Lakeaires School
3963 Van Dyke
White Bear Lake
City of Spring Park
North Star Elementary
2410 Girard Ave. No.
Minneapolis
Zachary Lane Elementary
4350 Zachary Lane
Plymouth
Centenial High School
4707 North Rd
Circle Pine.s d k
~ ~ rsc1b- ~ Weod ~ -
...
Redwood #8746
$7,000
Redwood ~oAde...e
v~. sand, ON~Y
$2610
Border, Play,
Install
$23,285
Border, Install
$25,691
I
~ PB Blue Alum.
SI1,500
~ 1'-t!> =
PI ~ Iooc>s~
- CD/or ... ~t'i(
Redwood
$4,000
PB Brown
Sand & Border
$20,000
Redwood
Sand & Border
$7 , 000
2 PB, Swings
Etc.
$13,700
PB Blue Alum.
$9,600
f\Cht ~~~ -
Jt
RW Phase III
-
Sand & Border
$6,000
Jf.. f<.c~ ~
PB Phase II
Sand &
Border
$5,900
RW & Border
$4,200
PB
$10,200
PB-Phase II
$7,300
5 Bleachers
Steel Frames
$17,000 ./.....
~Ol>S'ft'V
-2-
Cooper Elementary
3212 39th Ave. So.
Minneapolis
Pied Piper Day Care
Spring Brook Apt.-105 NE Hartman Cir.
Fridley
Hennepin Avenue Methodist
Lyndale & Groveland
Minneapolis
City of Woodbury
Kinder Kollege
202 E. Hayden Lake Rd.
Champlin
~City of Golden Valley
""f\. Gearty Park
Apple Valley
Palomino ~ark, Cedar Ave & Palomino Dr
Apple Valley
Lachavon
Apple Valley
Huntington, Pilot Knobb & Diamond Path
Apple Valley
Green Leaf, 134-135 Fordham Ave.
Apple Valley
Park?
PB-Add on &
Swing
$1,800
.
PB, Sand &
Border
$9,110
RW- Sand &
Border
$4,000
PE & Border
$6,000
PB & Swing
$5,000
PB, Swings etc
$15,000
PB
$10,600
PB
$10,600
PB
$10,600
.
PB
$4,000
Swings, 2 Units
$1,600
Apple Valley PB
Briar Oaks Park, Gantry S. of l2lst St. $10,600
Duluth
MacArthur West Elementary
727 Central Avenue
~ City of St. Louis Park
f\ Birchwood Park-28th & Zarthar
International School of MN
6385 Beach Road
Eden Prairie
City of Coon Rapids
Riverwind Park
Northdale & Clover
City of Woodbury
Colby Lake Park
PB
Install Only
$5,800
PB
$15,000
PB
$15,000
RW-Sand &
Border .
$18,000 PB & Border
$11,200
.
.
.
-3-
Wenonah School
5625 23rd Ave. So.
Mpls.
Mallard Ridge Apts.
13201 Maple Knoll Way
Maple Grove
Garden City Elementary
3501 65th Ave. No.
City of Rosemount
New Hope Terrace Apts.
7601 36th Ave. No.
New Hope
-*
Eden Lake School
Anderson Lakes Pkwy. & Preserve BId.
Eden Prairie
Wayzata Community Church
125 E. Wayzata Blvd.
City of Blaine
Austin Park, 86th & Austin
City of Blaine
Sunnyside Pk, Cloverleaf Pkwy & Jackson St.
~ City of Golden Valley
~ !\ Yosemite Park
Coon Rapids
Woodland Oaks Park
Especially for Children
6223 Dell Road
Eden Prairie
Rockford Elementary
City of Burnsville
Alimagnet Park
Cty. Rd 11-3 Bl. North of Cty. Rd. 42
~
Echo Park
140th Sts. & Cty. Rd. 11
Hollows Park
Southcross Dr. S. of Cty Rd 42
Roosevelt Elementary
Virginia
Independent
Play Add ons
$4,000
RW #8746
$7,600
PB
$15,400
RW
$3,750
:RW - Sand &
Border, Tables,
Benches ,Bike
Racks,Grills
$7,500
PB-Phase II
$15,000
Swings & Misc
$1,500
2 PB, Sand &
Border
$23,000
PB, Swings,
$19,600
PB & Swings
$11,000
RW Benches,Tree
Sand & Border
$38,600
PB-Advenscapes
Sand & Border
$27,000
RW #8756
$10,000
RW
$20,500
PB
$13,500
RW
$17,600
PB
$20,600
-4-
*
Edinbrook Elementary
8925 Zane North
Brooklyn Park
AlumaC 2000
BB, Swings
$20,900
Duluth
Lakeside Elementary
4628 Pitt St.
PB,Swings,
$29,500
A10~Vt..
Uu./
.
etc
Cobb Elementary
3917 Woodland Ave.
PB,Swings
B Ball, etc
$31,700
Lincoln Elementary
2427 W 4th St.
PB, etc.
;$24,000
,
Bloomington
Oak Grove 'Elemetary
104th & Humboldt So.
PB, Sand &
Border, Blackt
$24,700
~
Indian Mounds Elementary
12th Ave. So. & 98th St.
PB, Sand & Bord
Blacktop, etc
$30,300
Pleasant Play lot
10323 Pleasant Ave. So.
PB & Blacktop
$9,300
Hampshire Hills Park
106th & Lousiana
PB
$
Mississippi Art School
796 E. Sherwood
St. Paul,
PB, Sand &
Border
$10,000
.
Otter Lake School
1401 County Road H-2
B Balls, Swings
Tetherballs
$4,500
Especially for Children
3370 Coachman Road
Eagan
PB,AdventureSc
Sand & Border
$21,600
Lake Elmo Park Reserve
Washington county
PB, etc.
Border
$70,000
Anoka County
Coon Rapids Regional Park Dam
Fishing Piers
$50,000
Vadnais Heights Elementary
3645 Centerville Road
PB Phase III
P Table,Benches
$6,200
.
.
.
, .
10. variations from Approved Plans. Minor variances from the
approved plans may be approved by the City's Planning Director.
Substantial departures from the approved plans shall require an amend-
ment to the Planned unit Development, in accordance with the Chanhassen
zoning Ordinance.
11. License. The Developer hereby grants the City, its agents,
employees, and officers a license to enter the plat to inspect the work
to be done by the Developer and to perform all work required hereunder
if Developer fails to perform in accordance herewith.
12. utility, Pond, and Drainage Easements. The Developer shall
dedicate to the City at the time of final plat approvals utility,
drainage, and ponding easements located within the plat, including
access, as required to serve the plat.
13. Responsibility for Costs.
A. The Developer shall hold the City, its officers,
agents, and employees harmless from claims by the Developer and third
parties, including, but not limited to, lot purchasers, other property
owners, contractors, subcontractors, and materialmen, for damages
sustained, costs incurred, or injuries resulting from approval of the
Agreement, the development, final plats, plans and specifications, and
from the resulting construction and development. The Developer shall
indemnify the City, its officers, agents, and employees for all costs,
damages, or expenses, including reasonable engineering and attorney's
fees, which the City may payor incur in consequence of such claims.
B. The Developer shall reimburse the City for costs
incurred in the enforcement of this Agreement, including reasonable
. engineering and attorney's fees. The Developer shall pay in full all
-5-
. .
bills submitted to it by the City for such reimbursements within sixty ~
(60) days after receipt. If the bills are not paid on time, the City may
halt all development work until the bills are paid in full. Bills not
paid within sixty (60) days shall be subject to an eight (8%) percent
per annum interest charge.
14. Miscellaneous.
A. Breach of any material term of this Agreement by the
Developer shall be grounds for denial of building permits, plats, and
certificates of occupancy.
B. If any portion, section, subsection, sentence, clause,
paragraph or phrase of this Planned Unit Development Agreement is for
any reason held invalid as a result of a challenge brought by the
Developer, its agents or assigns, the City may, at its option, declare
the entire Agreement null and void and approval of the Final Development~
Plan shall thereby be revoked.
C. The action or inaction of any party shall not consti-
tute a waiver or amendment to the provisions of this Agreement. To be
binding, amendments or waivers shall be in writing, signed by the
parties and approved by written resolution of the City Council. Any
party's failure to promptly take legal action to enforce this Agreement
after expiration of time in which the work is to be completed shall not
be a waiver or release.
D. This Agreement shall run with the land and may be
recorded in the Carver County Recorder's Office.
E. This Agreement shall be liberally construed to protect
the pUblic's interest.
~
-6-
'.
~ F. Due to the preliminary nature of many of the exhibits
and plans and the timing of the overall Development, addendums to this
Agreement may be required to address concerns not specifically set forth
herein.
G. This Agreement shall be binding upon the parties, their
heirs, successors or assigns, as the case may be.
H. The Developer represents to the City that the plat is
not of "metropolitan significance" and that a state environmental impact
statement is not required. However, if the city or another governmental
entity or agency determines that a federal or state impact statement or
any other review, permit, or approval is required, the Developer shall
prepare or obtain it at its own expense. The Developer shall reimburse
the city for all expenses, including staff time and reasonable
~ attorney's fees, that the City may incur in assisting in preparation.
15. Notices. Required notices to the Developer shall be in
writing and shall be either hand delivered to the Developer, their
employees or agents, or mailed to the Developer by certified or
registered mail at the following address: 7600 Parklawn Avenue, Edina,
Minnesota 55435. Notices to the City shall be in writing and shall be
either hand delivered to the City Clerk or mailed to the City by
certified or registered mail in care of the City Clerk at the following
address: P.o. Box 147, 690 Coulter Drive, Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317.
~
-7-
'.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have hereunto set their hands ~
the day and year first above written.
BY:
LAKE SUSAN HILLS
BY:~
A p rtner -
r 4. ~~7
JAMES A. URRY
@~~
BARBARA CURRY
STATE OF MINNESOTA )
( SSe
COUNTY OF CARVER )
The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this g~
day of ~~~ ,1987, by Thomas L. Hamilton, Mayor, and by Don
Ashworth, City Manager, of the City of Chanhassen, a Minnesota municipal
corporation, on behalf of the corporation and pursuant to authority
granted by its City Council.
~
STATE OF MINNESOTA ) f(.,...."'N J EI",-"" ".~"'IT
r/ L .. (ss . NOl~~~yj~c~:,r '.,_~~~OTA
COUNTY OF'>LKf''ltf!./~IL') My comrr.;"'on t"..' ',: _' '!::..:
/I!.rhe foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this ,I ~
day of~;l:/d/:!..1___. ,1987, by '::::TJl-1Yj 84 J9, L/Q'/JJson/ , a
partner of Lake Susan Hills, a Minnesota, general partners~n its
behalf. r-- ~ . // ;--
\~~~aM(~d-~,{
NOTARY PUBLIC
/.;:;:.".... BARBARA FISHER
~..!!!.~ NOTARY PUBLIC - MINNESOTA
\~n}' HENNEPIN COUNTY
~.- ")I COmmiS:lIOn Expires JUly 10. 11:92
~
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~ STATE OF MINNESOTA
COUNTY OF '1'tN,\j't.P. ,....
)
( ss.
)
"
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;; V\lVV'....N/\/'./'.,.../\/..'v'y.'V".;v y ..,"../'... VV\.. ..\....,,'.....\1."'... .,
.
.
The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this ~
day of OE.c:.lMb..:.<. ,1987, by JAMES A. CURRY and BARBARA CURRY,
husband and wife.
J3,Ul1lTl~'ifLIt
DRAFTED BY:
Grannis, Grannis, Farrell
& Knutson, P.A.
403 Norwest Bank Building
161 North Concord Exchange
South st. Paul, MN 55075
(612) 455-1661
-9-
.
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LEGAL DESCRIPTION FOR LOCATION PURPOSE ONLY
.
All that part of the Southwest Quarter and the Southeast Quarter
of Section 14 and the north one-half of the Northwest Quarter and
the Southeast Quarter of the Northwest Quarter of Section 23, all
in Township 116, Range 23, Carver County, Minnesota lying south-
erly of Outlot D, CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK, according to
the recorded plat thereof, said Carver County, and lying westerly
of the westerly right-of-way line of new County Road No. 17.
EXCEPT that part of the Northwest Quarter of said Northwest
Quarter lying westerly of the following described line and its
northerly and southerly extension:
Commencing at the southeast corner of said Northwest Quarter
of the Northwest Quarter; thence South 89 degrees 04 minutes
49 seconds West, bearing assumed, along the south line of
said Northwest Quarter of the Northwest Quarter, a distance
of 790.00 feet to the point of beginning of the line to be
described; thence North 1 degree 57 minutes 27 seconds West,
a distance of 460.00 feet; thence North 18 degrees 32
minutes 33 seconds East, a distance of 330.00 feet; thence
North 52 degrees 00 minutes 00 seconds West, a distance of
638.57 feet; thence North 1 degree 57 minutes 27 seconds
West, a distance of 150.59 feet to a point on the north line
of said Northwest Q~arter of the Northwest Quarter distant
156.07 feet westerly of the northwest corner of said .
Northwest Quarter of the Northwest Quarter as measured along
said north line and there terminating.
ALSO EXCEPT that part of the east one-half of said Northwest
Quarter lying westerly of the westerly right-of-way line of said
New County Road No. 17 and southerly and easterly of the
following described line:
Commencing at the northwest corner of the Southeast Quarter
of the Northwest Quarter of said Section 23; thence South 1
degree ,50 minutes 17 seconds East, bearing assumed, along
the west line of said Southeast Quarter of the Northwest
Quarter, a distance of 675.00 feet; thence East, a distance
of 305.00 feet; thence North 40 degrees 00 minutes 00
seconds East, a distance of 270.00 feet; thence North 2
degrees 00 minutes 00 seconds West, a distance of 200.00
feet; thence North 19 degrees 00 minutes 00 seconds West, a
distance of 323.00 feet; thence North 69 degrees 00 minutes
00 seconds East, a distance of 130.00 feet; thence North 20
degrees 00 minutes 00 seconds East, a distance of 410.00
feet; thence North 89 deg~ees 00 minutes 00 seconds East, a
distance of 395.74 feet to the westerly right-of-way line of
New County Road No. 17 and there terminating.
.
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LEGAL DESCRIPTION FOR LOCATION PURPOSE ONLY
All that part of the east one-half of the Southeast Quarter of
Section 15, Township 116, Range 23, Carver County, Minnesota
lying easterly of the centerline of old County Road No. 17 as
travelled.
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CITY OF q!J
CHAHHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
-/
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
DATE: March 6, 1989
SUBJ: July 4th Fireworks Display Quotes
.
Attached please find quotes from two companies for the 4th of
July fireworks display. A letter from Vitale Fireworks Display
Company is also attached. As you may recall, Vitale was the high
bidder in 1988 and has elected not to submit a bid in 1989. A
copy of the bid awarded to Banner Fireworks Display Company in
1988 was included in the correspondance requesting bids for 1989.
As a result, you will notice the two bids which were received
appear to be very similar. One noticeable difference is the
number of shots per show. Banner quotes 352 whereas Arrowhead
quotes 540. A simple comparison shows the two bids to be more
equal, 216 of the shots in the Arrowhead bid are from two 108 shot
finale boxes which retail for under $40.00 each. A greater
number of small shells are also included in the Arrowhead bid.
Banner Fireworks Display Company has presented the past five
fireworks displays for Chanhassen. All of them have been of
extr~mely high quality from the standpoints of safety, pro-
fessionalism and level of excitement. They have always shown an
interest in giving us the best show possible by visiting the
display site before the actual shoot.
It is staff's recommendation to accept the bid from Banner
Fireworks Display Company in the amount of $5,000 for the 1989
fireworks display.
.
Update (March 22, 1989): The Park and Recreation Department
reviewed this item and felt Banner Fireworks Display Company con-
tinues to be the best qualified company to produce the Annual 4th
of July fireworks display. Banner has always been very concerned
about the personal safety of the spectators and their staff.
They are very willing to visit the site prior to the show to
discuss necessary preparations. The Park and Recreation Com-
mission unanimously agreed to award Banner Fireworks Display
Company the 1989 contract in the amount of $5,000.00
The fireworks display has been scheduled for Tuesday, July 4,
1989, at Lake Ann Park as the finale to the three day 4th of July
Celebration.
DULUTH, MINN.
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ST. LOUIS PARK, MINN.
ARROWHEAD FIREWORKS CO., Inc.
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8400 R~piJB(,IC\'AVENU'E...~
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ST. LOUIS PARK. MINNESOTA 55426
r.1arch:3 1:}Q9
Todd Hof'f":'li'ln
Rpcreatio~ Supervisor
590 Coulter Drive P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
Dpi'lr ~r.. Hoffman)
'.'l=> are encIosinJ our quotation rmd cont~act fOe
a $4, F3 77.00 firc',,'ori<: rlicpIi'lY on Jul~' /1., 1989. If
~'ou rli?c~,-de on ()ur fir'O".-JOrk rlisplClY "'~ woulr:l
"'lDpreci;;te if you "'omId sign the enclosed contr.'3r:t
r>nrl>:,etllrn thr:? whi tl=> r:..)~'); to us.
'l";'"lnkin'} ~'Oll -FOe '11. "i.ng us thl=> ()r~ortllni ty
t~ <;i ve you ", C:'1ote "mo hnping we mi'l~' he of service
;-0 '!O'l.
Sincerely,
ARRO',V}IEAD FIRJ:;'.vORKS CO.. INC.
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MAR 6 1989
Commerdal and Display fireworks
.
.
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C1TY OF CHANHASS~
DULUTH. MINN.
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WATER!~WN\~?UT~ DAKOTA
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ARROWHEAD._~REWOB.KS CO., InC.
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PijONE' 612-929-8255
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ST. LOUIS PARK. MINN.
ST. LOUIS PARK, MINNESOTA 55426
SPECL\L P:~OGi,,\lI FO;~ 'l':1:~ CE'Y 0:2 C:-1:\;;; 1,'\33::\)
,_'lTL~:: ~ ~ '--~,
OPENING SET
24 3" Asst. Colored Star Shells
12 3" Atomic Salutes
12 3" Titaniuo Salutes
BODY OF SHOW
6
2
1
1
3" Asst. Color,=d Star Shells
3" Cracklin<] Shells
3" T""o Break - '1\.,,0 Color
3" Two Break - Color & Report
3" Three B':eak - Three Color
3" Three Break - Two Color Rc Rep;:)rt
3" Four Break - Four Color
3" Four Break - Three Color & Report
3" Artillery & Hei'ivy Heport
3" G'Ceen Peony with Red Hearts
3" White Chrysanthemum
3" Glittering GeITl
3" Silver Swallow
3" Blue Diamond
3" 1":010r CVl.n<Jing Peony
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
15 4" Asst. Colored Star Shells
5 4" Asst. Fancy Star Shells
1 4" Stickless Rocket
1 4" Spider Web
1 4" Crossett
1 4" Yellow Strobe
1 4" Color Changing Spider vleb to Red
1 4" Color Silk
1 4" Red Rose
1 4" Full Bloom in Garden
1 4" Red Lightning
1 4" 'l'ri-\.olor Ball
1 4" Blue Chrysanthemum
1 4" Bright Moon
Commerdal and Display fireworb
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1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
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1
1
1
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15
.
4" Sound Cicada
4" Butterflies
4" The Spring
4" Asst. Oriental Shells
5" Asst. Colored Star Shells
5" Asst. Fancy Star Shells
5" Willow Shell
5" Color Changing Blue to Gold Flitter
5" Silver Ring Red Center
5" '!:Wo Break-'I\4Q Color
5" 3 Color Flower Ring
5" Yellow Chrysanthemum
5" Crackling Glower
5" Blossom After Thunder
5" I'lhi te Silk
5" Red Ring with Blue Heart
5" Green Ring
5" Bumper Harvest
5" Flower Bed
5" Garland
5" Color Flower
5" Red Flag
5" Glittering Gem
5" Red Waves
5" Peacock Tail
5" Spring VJillow
5" Asst. Oriental Shells
.
8 6" Asst. Colored Star SIhells
2 6" Asst. Fancy Star Shells
1 6" Strobe Shell
1 6" Comet
1 6" Shell of Shells (16 Shells in one)
1 6" Three Color Flower Ring
1 .;" Silver Drago:!
1 is'' ':Ie lco'1le 5pri:!(]
1 6" Red & Blue '1',"0 Ring
12 6" Asst. Oriental Shells
1 8" Color Peony
1 8" Bumper Harvest with Crackers
1 8" Gold Wave to Blue Chrysanthemum
1 8" Gold Rippling <1rysanthemu'll
1 8" Tiger Tails
1 8" Red to White To Blue Peony
1 10" Whi te Chrysanthemum
1 10" Three Color Changing Peony
1 10" Green to Red Chrysan themum with Ehcircled Dews
1
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12" Red Chrysanthemum
12" Golden Kamuro to Flash
.
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GRAND FINALE
60 3" Asst. Colored Star Shells
48 3" Atomic Salutes
6 4" Asst. Colored Star Shells
6 4" Atomic Salutes
3 ~" Asst. Oriental Shells
3 6" Asst. Colored Star Shells
1 10" Red Chrysanthemum
2 108 Shot Finale Boxes
OPENING SET - 48 shots
BODY -160 Shots
FINALE -343 Shots
. TOTAL SHOTS 540 Shots
This Display includes insurance and our expert operators to set
up and shoot the Bisplay.
.
2/25/89
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BANNER
FIREWORKS
DISPLA Y CO.
9840 - 271 st Avenue
ZIMMERMAN, MINNESOTA 55398
(612) 856-2838
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.
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CHENHASSAN JULY 4,1989
This show contains 352 aerial breaks,all personel to set up and shoot
the show, Insurance in the sum of $300.000.00 and is designed to last
approx 30 min.
FINALE
84-3" ASS.COLOR SHELLS
36-3" TI.SALUTES
8-4" ASS.COLOR & EFFECTS
4-4" SALUTES
12-5" ASS. COLOR & SHELL OF SHELLS
6-6" ASS.COLOR SHELLS
6-4" MAGNUM SALUTES
1-10"SALUTE
72-2~ SHELLS & MINES
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GOLDEN SPIDERS
COLOR CHANGE DIADEM
SILVER RING
2 BREAK COLOR TO COLOR
2 BREAK COLOR TO SPIDER
BATTLE IN CLOUDS
THUNDER & RAINBOW
3 BREAK COLOR,COLOR,REPORT
4 BREAL RED ELECTRIC
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12-4"
3-4"
1-4"
1-4"
1-4"
1-4"
1-4"
1-4"
1-4"
1-4"
14-5"
5-5"
4-5"
6-5"
2-5"
1-5"
1-5"
1-5"
1-5"
1-5"
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FANCY COLOR & EFFECT SHELLS
GOLDEN RAIN SHELLS
TREMALON CROSSETTS
COMETS
MARRIED
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2 BREAK
3 BREAK
3 BREAK
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COLOR TO COLOR
COLOR TO REPORT
COLOR,COLOR,SPIDER
SILVER ELECTRIC
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1-511
1-511
1-511
4 BREAK
7 TIMED
DRAWOUT
DRAWOUT
COLOR,4
REPORTS
COLOR,6 REPORTS,HEAVY REPORT
COLOR, 6 REPORTS,CROSSETTS
TIMED REPORTS,COLOR,HEAVY REPORT
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BANNER
· FIREWORKS
DISPLA Y CO.
9840 . 271 st Avenue
ZIMMERMAN, MINNESOTA 55398
(612) 856-2838
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6-811 ASS. FANCY ORIENTAL SHELLS
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14-6" ASS. FANCY ORIENTAL SHELLS
4-611 SPECIAL EFFECTS SHELLS
6-611 SHELL OF SHELLS VOLLY
.
5-10"ASS.FANCY ORIENTAL SHELLS
l-lOIlGOLDEN CAVITY COMETS W/TI.REPORTS W/CRACKLING CORE
1-12"FANCY CHRY.
1-12I1TREMALON CROSSETT
TOTAL $5,000.00
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All multy break shells are full size shells,not small shells placed
in one container.
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Pete Cermak
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P.O. BOX 1753. j'.JEW CASTLE::. PErINSYLVANIA 16103
March 2, 1989
Mr. Todd Hoffman
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
Dear Mr. Hoffman:
Thank you for including Vitale on your requests for bid
proposals for the 1989 fireworks presentations.
We regret we are unable to submit a bid for your display, due to
the nature of the bid specifications.
Thank you for allowing Vitale to participate in your bidding
program. We would appreciate being continued on your bid list for .
future events.
Respectfully,
VITALE FIREWORKS DISPLAY CO., INC.
.~ .. .)~----,
Greg Z':.ms
Senior Account Executive
GA/bjm
MAR 6 1989
CITY OF CHANHASe
:\ lJmdy lrJditi\,1n \,)f IIrework cxpencncc ~1f1Ce 1889
FACTORY. OFFICE
302 WILSON ROAD
-~._-
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OFFICE AND DAY PHONE
(-'12) 654.9841
TO
Ad \'VI' V\
EARL F. ANDERSEN & ASSOCIATES, INC.
9808 James Circle · Bloomington, Minnesota 55431
(612) 884-7300 · MN Toll Free No. 1-800-862-6026
MEMO-LETTER
1Af?-\ ~1tr~A:
~..p-t~~1oN ~ ...
0h-Y OF C)! AfJHf\sSB~
tr'j{) Cn~Wf-1:f2-lW
CHAH~~/~I M/'J,~t;33r7
Lo~1 ~ A-rtMlM 1<c?A l{<;,r or= ~
ir ~.. ('{'I- .e([UlfMt~/drl! r ~.gf) Y71~
C:'WASJ:-- ~~ - M,L/~:f5" ~O - lo/f:JB - ~~
l1J~ "CfJe 'tiiO ~ -- !:3o~ ~- ~OOf)~~ r'~
'-pr? Cf0 V~D}J l)lv'Tl~ ~;I6: iu, cA1L
'100 rHw I
~~~ h~;.-6 ~989
0A"_-Y2-~9
SUBJECT
CIl:Y. OF CHANt tA~.JUlI
her;> r r.1l...:r,'-: Tl;f- Dra'....I:')Q Boa~d, Dallas, Texas 75266~0429
Wht:€'O;-I GrQup_lnc. 'S62~
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FOLD AT (-) TO FIT ORA WING BOARD ENVELOPE. EW' OP
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LAW OFflCiS
GRANNIS, GRANNIS, FARRELL & KNursON
PlOf1l5S:0NAL MsocL'T1f)N
PosT OFfICE Box 57
403 NOU'UT BANK BUILDING
161 NOIITJol CONCOJ.D ExCH^NG~
SoUTH Sr, PAUL, MINN!IOTA "075
~oN!(612)4".1661
TILleOPllR .
(A12) 4H.23'9
~on B. KNmcH
MICHAlLJ. MAYl1
TIMOTHY J. BEkG
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DA\'ID L GII.ANNI~. 1874-1961
O^\':~ t. GUNNl~. J", - 1910-1980
V ...."'Ci B GlANSI~
VAloSCE B. G,,^~to.":!, ;J.,.
PAftlCK A. FADFU
DAVID L. G"^NNIS, III
IOGEr. N. KNv't$ON
DAVID L. HAJ.NIYD.
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I'J..\CIlO IN 'l'IKOIlIIN
March 10, 1989
Mr. Don Ashworth
Chanhassen City Hall
690 Coulter Orive, Box
Chanhasssn, Minnesota
147
55317
RE: Rotating Chairs
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Dear Don:
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You have asked this offioe whether the Park and Recreation
CCI..!iiission's pc.licy to have rotating ohairs meet,s State
statutes/City Ordinance.
.
. '
'. '
Robert's R~lEs of Order requires a chair and vice-chair.
Ci ty O:.-dir:.aT"'~;e states that "Each Commission shall establish rules
of procedure".
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!n CH:C.:U.:-Jdflt;t: wIlli Lllt; C1LuVId, LuLaL:u\:j ~LQ~.L:;> ~::. 1~~Cl.1. If
t~e (v~~cil fee~ that this policy is undesirable, modification of
local ordinance shculd consider adding a sentence stating
"Chai r~:!arJ election shall be for not less than one year".
Very truly yours,
GRANNIS, GRANNIS, FARRELL
& KNUTSON, P.A.
BY:
Roger N. Knutson
RNK:srn
.