1989 11 28 Agenda
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AGENDA
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 28, 1989, 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
Call to order.
Appoint Acting Chairperson, Sue Boyt.
Minutes Are Not Available.
Authorization to Prepare Plans and Specifications and Easement
Acquisition for Herman Field Park.
Site Plan Review, Sathre Addition.
Revised 5-Year Capital Improvement Program.
Approval of Proposed Park/Open Space for Updated Land Use
Plan.
Continued Discussion of Lake Ann Park Fee.
Discussion of Accessability.
Prioritization of and Modifications to the Chanhassen
Comprehensive Trail Plan.
11. Discussion of Sale of Zamboni.
12. Administrative Section.
4
C ITV OF
CHAHHASSEH
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORNADUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
U;>
DATE:
November 17, 1989
SUBJ:
Herman Field
The revisions to the Master Park Plan for Herman Field were
recently approved by the City Council. Residents in the area are
interested in seeing development of the park next year. To ini-
tiate development of the park, there are some things left to be
done. Authorization must be approved to proceed with nego-
tiations to acquire an easement off of Forest Circle. Phase I
facilities must be identified and plans and specifications prepared. .
Attached please find a letter from a resident in the Herman Field
area suggesting that a committee of IIFriends of Herman Fieldll be
formed. This committee would help with the planning and develop-
ment stages as well as assist in ng care of the park. Also
attached is a letter to the residents the area inviting them
to be on such a committee.
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6360 Forest Circle
Excelsior, Minnesota 55331
September 19, 1989
City Council
City of Chanhassen
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, Minnesota 553 J 7
I ,,---.
Dear Council Members:
On September I I th, I received written notification that the plan for Herman Field
Park would be on the City Council agenda the evening of the I I tho The lack of proper
notification on the timetable for this item is disturbing and should be corrected;
however, not wishing to lose the focus of my thought, I will take this opportunity to
write you on this subject.
My comments relate to that portion of the plan in the far left of the master plan
entitled "Nature Trail/Explore" around the pond. If done correctly, this nature trail has
the potential to be a real asset to the entire park plan. If done poorly, it will add very
little and may in fact detract from the park.
My thoughts on how we can make the most of this nature trail include the
following:
I) First, there is a real difference between a trail and a path. The former
is planned to blend with the landscape and fit into the environment. It is
much more than cutting an opening. It must be planned with the environment
in mind. Time spent to think through the exact location and composition is
time well spent. .
2) Some "don'ts" that are part of any nature trail should be clearly under-
stood by all potential users via signs and notice:
a. Don't litter
b. Don't pick flowers or disturb the foliage
c. Don't let dogs run freely on the trail
d. Don't allow any motorized vehicles on the trail
3) Some "dos" that can be very helpful for a successful trail are:
a. Do provide housekeeping for the trail
b. Do provide information which helps people understand the
natural environment of which they are a part
c. Do allow access for young and old, able-bodied and
handicapped
. . --.. --
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SEP 211989
C'TY OF CHANHASSEN
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In an area where we are blessed with so much experience related to nature and the .
natural environment, I would strongly encourage responsible individuals to reach out to
these experts when designing this trail. This need not be a costly process .~t all.
Finally, I encourage those responsible for development to draw together a group of
local residents who could help on the development and upkeep of the trail. If local
residents feel a sense of ownership in this project, there will be many hands available to
make the trail a positive experience. If they are not involved responsibly, upkeep will
rest largely with an already committed staff.
This letter is in the form of an invitation to staff to contact us to work on the
development of a group of wfriends of the Herman Field Nature Trail.w This should be
done prior to any actual work on the site and should involve the group in all phases of
the decision-making process.
A path around a pond or a nature trail. The plan calls for the latter. We are
committed to this becoming a reality.
Sincerely,
/ ~ c:s T ...-.
Jim Storm
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
November 16, 1989
Dear Herman Field Area Resident:
The Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission is starting to make
plans to develop the park in your area called Herman Field. The
Commission is interested in developing this park taking into con-
sideration the concerns of the abutting property owners and the
surrounding neighborhoods.
.
One of the residents in your area suggested that a "Friends of
Herman Fieldll committee be formed to work with the Commission and
staff to ensure that your concerns are addressed. This letter is
to invite you to become a member of this committee. If you are
interested, please contact me at 937-1900. The Park and
Recreation Commission will be discussing plans for the first
stages of development at their next meeting. That meeting is
scheduled for Tuesday, November 28, 1989 at 7:30 p.m. in the
Council Chambers at Chanhassen City Hall, 690 Coulter Drive.
It is anticipated that the Commission will authorize staff to
enter into negotiations to acquire the easements to gain entry to
the park. They will also discuss parts of the park plan to be
included in Phase I andauthorize,preparation of plans for such.
Everyone is welcome toattendthismeetinq.)\gain'iplease call
me at 937-1900 if you would like to be on the "Friends of Herman
Fieldll committee.
c:i~' .
Lori Sietsema
Park and Recreation Coordinator
. LS:k
Sincerely,
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
November 17, 1989
Mr. & Mrs. Kenneth Lang
2637 Forest Avenue
Excelsior, MN 55331
Dear Mr. & Mrs. Lang:
The Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission will be discussing
development of Herman Field. Specifically they will be iden-
tifying which facilities should be included in Phase I and
authorize the preparation of plans and specifications. These
detailed plans will include the specific information needed to
determine the size, dimensions and placement of an easement for .
access to the park from Forest Circle.
Since the City will be working with you, the landowner, on the
easement needed, we would like your input as we go through the
process. This is to notify you that these discussions will be
held on Tuesday, November 28, 1989 at~:30 p.m. at Chanhassen
City Hall.
Again, the Park and Recreation Commission would like to work with
you to come up with an agreeable arrangement regarding access to
Herman Field. Please feel free to contact me at 937-1900 if you
have any questions.
Sincerely,
~ .)
/' ,Olr,;'. ~
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Lori Sietsema
Park and Recreation Coordi
LS:k
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
November 17, 1989
Ms. Marcia Schiferli
325 George Street
Excelsior, MN 55331
Dear Ms. Schiferli:
.
The Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission will be discussing
development of Herman Field. Specifically they will be iden-
tifying which facilities should be included in Phase I and
authorize the preparation of plans and specifications. These
detailed plans will include the specific information needed to
determine the size, dimensions and placement of an easement for
access to the park from Forest Circle.
Since the City will be working with you, the landowner, on the
easement needed, we would like your input as we go through the
process. This is to notify you that these discussions will be
held on Tuesday, November 28, 1989 at 7:30 p.m. at Chanhassen
City Hall.
Again, the Park and Recreation Commission would like to work with
you to come up with an agreeable arrangement regarding access to
Herman Field. Please feel free to contact me at 937-1900 if you
have any questions.
Sincerely,
. () ('
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Lori Sietsema
Park and Recreation Coordinator
LS:k
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CITY 0 F
CHANHASSEN
PRC DATE: Nov. 28, 1989
C.C. DATE:
b
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CASE NO:
Prepared by: Sietsema:k
STAFF REPORT
PROPOSAL:
To subdivide a 3.2 acre lot into 2 single
family lots of 2.08 acres and .79 acres.
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LOCATION:
Between Pleasant View Road and Lotus Lake, t
mile south of Fox Hollow Drive.
APPLICANT:
Robert Sathre
365 Pleasant View Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
PRESENT ZONING:
RSF, Residential Single Family
ACREAGE:
3.2 acres
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
N- RSF
S- Lotus Lake
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E- RSF
w- RSF
EXISTING PARKS:
This property lies within the service area
of North Lotus Park. The Comprehensive
Plan does not call for park or trail in this
area.
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Sathre Subdivision
November 17, 1989
Page 2
Recommendation
It is the recommendation of this office to approve the proposed
subdivision requiring 100% payment of park and trail fees.
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C ITV OF
CHAHHASSEN
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation
coordinatok
7
DATE:
November 21, 1989
SUBJ: Five Year Capital Improvement Program
Attached please find the 5-Year Capital Improvement Program with
the modifications made by the Commission at the last meeting.
Please review and be prepared to di$cUSS any additional changes.
.
Although the 5-Year Capital Improvement Program will be placed in
the City Council's administrative section, it is simply a
workp1an for the Commission and does require Council approval.
Once final revisions are made, this will be used to help us
through the budget process~ It will be referred to when
unexpected donations are made to the and Recreation
Department.
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CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION
Five Year
Capital Improvement Program
Updated 11/8'3
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park:
Lo,: at i e:on:
A,: yo eage:
Park Type:
Lake Ann Park
West on the north side of Hwy 5
'38
CClmmLln it y Par k
Imp r c,vemen t s
1'388
1'38'3
Tc.t 1 ot (Bea,: h)
Expansion Project
Totlot (Ballflds)
Totlot (BF Phase II)
NatLwe Trai 1 (Weoc,ds)
Community Pk Shelter
Street CW-bing
F::a ft
Concession Improv'ts
Soc.:er Lights
Handicap Picnic Areas
8,000
(300,000)*
10,000
1 '3'30
10,000
4,000
100,000
1'3'31
20,000
10,000
6,000
Page 1
1'392
60,000
15,000
8,000
10,000
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
75,000
114,000
36,000
*Referendum Funds - These costs were not calculated into the totals
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park:
Location:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Lake Susan Park
NW Corner of Lake Drive & CR 17
27
Community Park
1988
1989
LAWCON Grant Project**
Totlot
Totlot Expansion
221,000
1990
10,000
1991
Page 2
1992+
10,000
-0-
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10,000
110,500*** 10,000
-0-
**Entrance road, boat access, ballfield, archery, trail, fishing pier
tennis, basketball, etc.
***As this is a matching grant, only one half of the project cost is
added to the totals
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
Leu: at i on :
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Paved Parking
Tennis Nets
Bl eachet-s
Meadow Green Park
PClnt i ac Dr i ve
21
Neighborhood Park
1988
2,000
600
3,000
198'3
1'3'30
1'391
F'age 3
1'3'32+
5,600
------------...----------------------------------
------------...-----------------------------------
-0-
-0-
-0-
-0-
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
Lo,: at i ,:,n:
Acreage:
Park Type:
I mpr ,:,vement S
N.:,rth Lc,tLlS Park
Pleasant View Road
18
Neighborhood Park
1988
T,:,t 1 c,t
Ballfield
Volleyball COLlrts
Paved Parking
Totlot Expansion
.
.
5,000
15,000
300
198'3
2,000
Page 4
19'30
19'32+
1'3'31
10, t;)()O
20,300
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
--0-
10,000
-0-
2,000
5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park:
Location:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
South Lotus Park
South Shore Drive
5
Neighborhood Park
1988
Fishing Dock
Ballfield
General Improvements
Totlot
Tennis Courts
1,500
1989
15,000
10,000
10,000
25,000
1990
1991
Page 5
1992+
1,500
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-0-
60,000
-0-
-0-
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
Lcu: at i cln:
A.:reage:
Park Type:
I mpr clvement s
Greenwood Shores Park
Ut i c a Lan e
4
Neighborhood Park
1'388
Land AI:qui si t i .:,n
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1'38'3
1'3'30
1 '3'31
Page 6
1 '3'32+
50,000
-0-
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
50,(01)
-0-
-1)-
-0-
5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
LClc at i I:,n:
A,:reage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Carver Beach Playground
Carver Beach Road
':>
""
Neighborhood Park
1'388
Basketball Court
Park ID Sign
Landscaping
Totlot Upgrading
3,000
1'38'3
1'390
1'391
Page 7
1'3'32+
5,000
3,000
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
5,000
350
3,000
350
-0-
3,000
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Page 8
Par k:
L,:,cat i on:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Carver Beach Linear Park
Lc,t LlS Tr ai I
8
Neighborhood Park
I mpr .:,vement s
1988
1'38'3
1 '3'30
1 '3'31
1'3'32+
General Improvements**
Seating
Fishing Dock
Landscaping
3,000
1 , 000
2,500
1,500
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
-0-
3,000
-0-
5,000
-0-
**Retaining wall, raft replacement, canoe racks, etc.
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
L,:II: at i on:
A,: r eage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Chanhassen Pond Park
Kerber Boulevard
16
Neighborhood Park
1988
W':lod OUt: k St and
Off Street Parking
Bend,es
Grade Trail
1'389
400
1 , 000
600
1'3'30
3,000
1991
Page '3
1992+
-(1-
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
-(1.-.
2,000
3,000
-(1-
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
L':II: at i cln:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Imp r c.vemen t 5
Paved Parking
.
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Rice Marsh Lake Park
Erie Circle
30
Neighborhood Park
1 ':388
1 , 51)1)
1'38'3
1'390
19'31
Page 11)
1'3'32+
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------.
-1)-
1 , 51)1)
-1)-
-1)-
-1)-
5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
Lcu: at icon:
Acreage:
Park Type:
I mprcovement s
Bandimere Heights Park
Kiowa Trail
":'
'""
Neighborhood Park
1'388
Tcot 1 ot
Sand Volleyball Ct
Basketball
3,500
198'3
1'390
1'391
Page 11
1 '392+
500
2,500
3,500
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
3,(100
-0-
-(1-
-(1-
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park:
Location:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Bluff Creek
South of Bluff Creek Golf Course
21
Community Park
1988
1989
Trail Improvements
Access Road
Land Acquisition
.
.
1990
1991
Page 12
1992+
15,000
10,000
50,000
-0-
-0-
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
75,000
-0-
-0-
5 Year Capital Impr'Jvement Program
Par k:
Loc at i .:.n:
Acreage:
Park Type:
1 mpr c.vement s
Minnewashta Heights
6200 Dc.gwc.c.d
2
Neighborhood Park
1988
Park ID Sign
Tc.t 1 c.t Updat i ng
Warming Shelter
400
1'389
1'390
1991
Page 13
1 '3'32+
5,000
10,000
400
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
15,000
-0-
-0-
-0-
.
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park: Herman Field
Location: Forest Circle
A.:reage: 13
Park Type: Neighborhood Park
I mpr c.vement s
1'388
Access Poad
Trail Development
Play Equipment
1 '38'3
1 '3'30
15,000
1(1,000
10,00(1
1 '3'31
Page 14
1'3'32+
-(1--
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
-0-
.
.
-(1-
35,(>00
-(>-
5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
Locat i c,n:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
City Center Park
C':'LlI t er Dr i ve
10
CommLlnity Park
1988
1989
Tennis Windscreen
Play Surface
Tot I c.t
Master Park Plan
Park Re-Configuration
500
2,500
19'30
40,000
2,000
25,000
1991
Page 15
1992+
500
2,500
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
-0-
67,000
-0-
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park:
Location:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Chanhassen Hills Park
Chanhassen Hills Drive
8
Neighborhood Park
1988
Master Park Plan
General Development
Tennis Courts
.
.
1989
2,000
1990
10,000
1991
Page 16
1992+
30,000
-0-
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
30,000
2,000
10,000
-0-
5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park:
Location:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Curry Farms Park
Devonshire Drive
6
Neighborhood Park
1988
1989
Totlot
Master Park Plan
General Development
Tennis Courts
2,500
2,000
1990
1991
10,000
Page 17
1992+
30,000
2,500
2,000
----------------------------------------------
-----------.-----------------------------------
30,000
-0-
10,000
.
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
L.:II: at i c.n:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Lake Susan Hills West
Lake Susan Drive West
'3
Neighborhood Park
1'388
Master Park Plan
Tot I e.t
General Development
Tennis Courts
.
.
Outlot 1
198'3
2,000
1'390
19'31
10,000
10,000
Page 18
1 '392+
30,000
-0-
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
30,000
2,000
-0-
20,000
5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park: Lake Susan Hills West - Outlot 2
Loe at i e,n :
Acreage: 4
Park Type: Neighborhood Park
Imprc1vements
1'388
1989
T,:,t I Clt
1990
Page 1'3
19'31
1 '392+
10,000
-0-
-0-
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
-0-
-0-
10,000
.
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Par k:
LClc at i on :
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Lake Susan Hills West - Outlot 3 (South)
18
Neighborhood Park
1'388
Master Park Plan
Tot 1 ot
General Development
.
.
1'389
1990
1991
1,500
10,000
Page 20
19'32+
20,000
-0-
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
20,000
-0-
-0-
11,500
5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Park:
Location:
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Bandimere Youth Complex
South Hwy 101
35
Community Park
1988
Master Park Plan
Rough Grading
General Improvements
1989
1,500
1990
1991
10,000
Page 21
1992+
300,000
-0-
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
300,000
1,500
-0-
10,000
.
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Page 22
General Acquisition
1992+
1991
1988
1989
1990
Acquistion
Curry Farms
Lake Susan Hills West
Chanhassen Hills
Bandimere Youth Complex
Pheasant Hills
West of Lake Mwta
Additional South Park
East of Lake Mwta
North/Central Chan
-0-
-0-
-0-
(200,000)*
100,000
100,000
(100,000)*
-0-
-0-
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
-0-
200,000
-0-
-0-
-0-
*Referendum Funds - These costs were not calculated into the totals
.
.
5 Year Capital
Par k:
L.:II: at i .:.n :
Acreage:
Park Type:
Improvements
Rest.:.c ki ng
Improvement Program
Chanhassen Tree Farm
Lake Ann Park
1988
5,000
1989
3,000
1990
3,000
1 ':1':1 1
5,000
Page
~),..,
.:..w
1'3':12+
3,000
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
3,000
5,000
3,000
3,000
5,000
.
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5 Year Capital Improvement Program
Page 24
Year TCltal s
Park 1'388 1'38'3 19'30 1'391 1992+
Lake Ann Park (300,000)*
Lake Ann Park 8,000 10,000 114,000 36,000 75,000
Lake Susan Park -0- 110,500 10,000 -0- 10,000
Meadclw Green Park 5,600 -0- -0- -0- -0-
No. LClt us Pat-k 20,300 2,000 -0- 10,000 -0-
Sc,. L I:' t us Park 1,500 60,000 -0- -0- -0-
131" een wCII:,d Shc,res Park -0- -0- -0- -0-- 50,000
Car vel' Beach PI aygr c,und 3,000 350 -0- 3,000 5,000
Carver Beach Linear Pk -0- 3,000 -0- 5,000 -0-
Chan Pond Park -0- 2,000 3,000 -0- -0--
F.:i ,:e Mat" sh Lake Park 1,500 -0- -0- -0- --0-
Bandimere Heights Park 3,500 -0- -0- -0- 3,000
Bluff Creek Park -0- -0- -0- -0- 75,000
Minnewashta Heights Pk 400 -0- -0- -0- 15,000
Herman Field Park -0- -0- 35,000 -0- -0-
Ci ty Center Park 500 2,500 67,000 -0- -0-
. Chanhassen Hills Park -0- 2,000 10,000 -0- 30,000
Curry Farms Park 2,500 2,000 -0- 10,000 30,000
Lake Susan Hills West
Site #1 -0- 2,000 -0- 20.000 30,000
Site #2 -0- -0- -0- 10,000 -o-
Bi te #~l -0- -0- -0- 11,500 20,000
.:J
Bandimere Youth Comp 1 e~/; -0- 1,500 -0- 10,000 300,000
LCl.nd Acquisition -0- (200,000)* 200,000 (100,000)* -0-
Chanhassen Tree Farm 5,000 3,000 3,000 5,000 3,000
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
$ 51,800 $200,850 $442,000 $120,500 $646,000
*Referendum Funds - These costs were not calculated into the totals
.
C ITV OF
CHANHASSEN
1
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
J
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinator~
November 17, 1989 ~
DATE:
SUBJ:
Proposed Park/Open Space for Updated Land Use Plan
The Planning Department is in the process of updating the Land
Use Plan. As a part of the updating process, the Park and
Recreation Commission will be asked to review the plan and make
their recommendations. I will be bringing this to you in two
stages for discussion. The first is to discuss the areas pre- .
viously reviewed; future community parks; and areas we know are
park deficient at this time. The second is to review the
designations of the Planning Commission <residential, commercial,
etc.) to determine future neighborhood park needs.
Attached please find a map of the City~with the areas previously
recommended as future park land. Plea~e review this map to
determine if any changes or additions should be made. Also
attached is the communi ty park survey dop.e by Mark Koegler last
spring. This is included simply to refresh your memory regarding
future community park needs and placement.
.
.
1
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Van Doren
Hazard
Stallings
An:IvtectS. enun-s. PbnMn;
May 11, 1989
Ms. Lori Sietsema
Park and Recreation Coordinator
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
Dear Lori:
This letter/report has been prepared in response to the directive
from the City Council to the Park and Recreation Commission to
assess the need for expanded community park areas adjacent to
existing Lake Ann Park. In addition to assessing needs relative
to the immediate vicinity of Lake Ann Park, the discussion and
fin din g s a 1 so fa c u s on co mm un i t Y wid e need sin all g e 0 g rap hi c a 1
areas of the City.
.
METHODOLOGY/TARGET POPULATION
There are a nu~ber of ways to analyze community park and community
park facility needs. Since Chanhassen has had an adopted park and
open space plan since 1980, information from the plan has provided
the foundation for this review. The information that has been
drawn together for this discussion comes from the Comprehensive
Plan sections pertaining to population, land use and parks and
recreation.
A meaningful review of future community park needs has to include
an analysis of projected population and an established relationship
between the total number of residents and the recreational
facilities that they require. Additionally, the review needs to
focus on a set point in time or a maximum anticipated population
level. Since it is the intent of this study to focus on long term
community park needs, the first step in the process is to identify
a target population number.
In order to derive a target population number, population and land
use data from the comprehensive plan was utilized. In 1988,
Chanhassen had an estimated population of 9,225. Of this total,
it is estimated that the area within the community-is MUSA line
contained a population of 8,755. In 1988, Chanhassen's Urban
Service Area included approximately 1,260 acres of vacant, .
developable land. Development of this vacant land will result in
an additional population of 4,032 based on existing overall
development densities. The combination of these two population
1
3030 Harbor Lan. North Bldg.II, Suit. 104 Mlnn.apoll., MN. 55447-2175 812/553-1850
.
.
.
estimates results in a target population for the Urban Service Area
of 12,787.
Since the focus of this investigation is long term, land area
within the existing General Rural Use Area must also be considered.
The General Rural Use Area is the portion of the community that is
not presently served by sanitary sewer. The GRUA contains a total
of approximately 7,300 acres of developable land. This total does
not include wetlands and major pub1 ic land holdings such as the
Minnesota Arboretum, the Minnesota Valley National Wildlife Refuge
and Minnewashta Regional Park.
Application of Chanhassen's existing development density to the
vacant, developable land in the GRUA yields an additional target
population of 23,363 for the section of the community that is not
presently served by sanitary sewer. The combination of this number
with the Urban Service Area population of 12,787 results in a total
target population of 36,150.
The analysis portion of this study will utilize the target
population of 36,150. It is extremely difficult to attach a time
projection to this land supply based population estimate. Timing
is dependent on future growth rates and local and regional policies
pertaining to the provision of full urban services. Chanhassen's
attainment of this population level may take 20 years or it may
take 50 years. The exact time frame is largely irrelevant since
the emphasis of this study is to make an attempt to define long
term needs. Long term needs are defined as those experienced by
the community as it approaches a fully developed condition,
regardless of how long it actually take to reach such a position.
FUTURE PARK NEEDS
Chanhassen's supply of community parks will need to keep pace with
future growth in order to maintain the same level of services
presently available. This means that future parks will need to
accommodate the 26,925 people who make up the difference between
the 1988 population level and the target population identified in
this study. Since the existing supply of community parks and
particularly the supply of active recreational facilities
reasonably meets the needs of the present population, additional
land will need to be acquired in order to accommodate future
residents.
The park and recreation section of the Chanhassen Comprehensive
Plan contains an adopted standard for quantifying needed community
park land. The plan calls for 7 acres of community park land for
every 1,000 residents. This means that in the future, the City
will need to acquire an additional 188 acres of land to fully
satisfy community park needs for the target population.
2
In addition to reviewing overall community park needs, the plan
also provides information on specific active recreational
facil ities. These facil ities should be considered as part of a
review of future park needs. Among the active recreational
pursuits, soccer and softball/baseball are the most land intensive.
They are also the most popular programs offered by the City of
Chanhassen. Since they are the most land intensive features in
most community parks, it is important to project future needs for
both uses to ensure that future land supply projections can
actually accommodate needed fields.
At the present time Chanhassen is utilizing 15 baseball/softball
fields to accommodate existing needs. Since this supply meets
current demand, it is reasonable to translate this relationship
into the form of a standard. This has been accomplished in the
following chart along with a comparison of the standards used by
the cities of Eden Prairie and Bloomington.
.
ACTIVE PARK STANDARDS
(facilities/number of people)
Activity Chanhassen Eden Prairie Bloomington
Softball 1/1300 1/1500 1/600
Baseball .
601 1/1500 1/2500 1/600
751 1/9000 1/8000 1/3600
90' 1/9000 1/6000 1/4000
Soccer 1/3000 1/4000 1/3500
Source: City of Eden Prairie
Van Doren-Hazard-Stallings, I nc.
Application of the above information to the target population of
36,150- reveals the need for a total of 69 baseball/softball fields
and 12 soccer fields. The present supply includes 15
baseball/softball fields and 3 soccer fields resulting in the
future need for an additional 54 baseball/softball fields and 11
soccer fields.
In the future, it is anticipated that the total number of
baseball/softball fields will be reduced through the installation
of lights accommodating evening and night games. Programming in
Chanhassen has shown that one new ball field can be eliminated for
every two fields that have lighting sy~tems. By the time that
Chanhassen reaches its target population, this study assumes that
a total of 10 fields will have lighting eliminating the need for
5 new fields. This will adjust the total number of additional .
baseball/softball fields from 54 to 49.
3
.
.
.
The existing community park system which principally includes Lake
Ann Park can not accommodate construction of any additional ball
diamonds or soccer fields. With the construction that is occurring-
this summer, this park will contain 6 ball fields and one~
regulation soccer field. Chanhassen presently does not have.
additional vacant community park land. This means that all future
construction will need to be accommodated within additional land
acquisitions.
Previous comments in this report referenced the land intensive
nature of ball fields and soccer fields. The 49 additional ball
fields and 11 soccer fields and parking associated with each
activity are expected to require a total of 150 acres of additional
property. Other active and passive recreational activities will,
also require additional land in the future. The needs of these
uses coupled with the ball fields and soccer fields reaffirm the /
overall projection of 188 acres of additional community park l~nd
needed to serve the identified target population.
LOCATIONAL CRITERIA
If the premise is accepted that Chanhassen will need an additional
188 acres of community park land in the long term future, the next
logical question is where should it be located? Passive activities
such as picnicking, nature trails, etc. need to be located where
appropriate environments exist. Active pursuits need to be located
in open areas with suitable topography. The other factor that
needs to be considered is the total number of required community
parks.
Co mm un i t Y parks t y pic all y h a ve a s e r vi c e area of 2 to 3 mil e s .
Utilizing a 2-3 mile service area, it is possible for Chanhassen
to satisfy community park needs with three locations. Lake Ann
Park which lies in the northern portion of the community presently
has 40 acres devoted to active recreation. In 1988, residents
approved a bond issue to acquire additional park property to serve
as a new community park in the southern portion of the city.
Assuming that the southern site has expansion potential (2X), these
two sites combined with an eventual third site of equal size can
effectively serve the target population. Depending on the sites
ultimately selected for the southern park and the third community
park, other acquisitions may be necessary or desirable to satisfy
future passive recreational needs. Such sites may feature wooded
areas, wetlands, lineal open space corridors etc.
Funds that were approved in the 1988 referendum should be adequate
to sustain an initial park purchase of 30 to 50 acres. The ability
to accommodate active recreational pursuits is a key selection
criteria in the identification of the southern site. When the
selection process is completed and the purchase is final, the city
will have satisfied 30 to 50 acres of the 150 acres projected to
be needed for future active recreational facilities. This will
4
result in the long term need for the acquisition of an additional
100 to 120 acres for active uses.
.
Since Chanhassen can be eventually served by three primary
community park locations, it is assumed that it is in the best long
term interest of the city that they be approximately equal in size.
Parks of equal size will afford convenient access for both existing
and future residents. If this is to occur, this means that the
city should consider eventual acquisition of an additional 30+
acres adjacent to the selected southern site, 60+ acres for an
eventual third community park and 25+ acres adjacent to Lake Ann
Park. If land is added to Lake Ann Park, it should be added on the
east side to maintain the park's development pattern which
establishes the western portion of the site for passive uses and
the eastern portion of the site for active uses.
LAND ACQUISITION COST
Up to this point in time, the cost of land has not been interjected
into the narrative of this study. Land costs, however, may be the
prime determinant in acquiring new community park land in the
future. Since Chanhassen is split by the MUSA line, a significant
difference exists between land prices in the.northern, sewered area
of the community and the southern, non-sewered area of the
community. This differential is partially responsible for the .
decision by the city that was affirmed by the voters to acquire a
southern park site in 1989 to accommodate future needs. Stated
simply, the land will never be any cheaper than it is at the
present time.
The acquisition of land adjacent to Lake Ann Park will carry a
relatively high price due to the existence of city services. The
parcel lying east of the park currently contains 175 acres of land.
This property is zoned residential which is subject to a park
dedication requirement of approximately 10%. If the entire
property was subdivided into residential lots, the city could
require the developer to dedicate approximately 18 acres of land
contiguous to the existing boundaries of Lake Ann Park. The
remaining 7 acres to bring the acquisition to a total of 25 acres
could be purchased by the city.
Although zoned residential, the vacant 175 acre parcel is presently
owned by Eckankar, a non profit group who is proposing to build a
church on the site. If a church is constructed on the site without
the property being subdivided, the City of Chanhassen will loose
the ability to collect park dedication fees on the portion of the
property that ultimately contains the church. Since churches do
not typically require 175 acre sites, portions of the property may
be subsequently utilized for residential purposes in conformance
with the existing zoning designation.
.
5
.
.
.
SUMMARY/CONCLUSIONS
This study identifies the need for approximately 190 acres of
add it ion all and to sat i sf y C h a n has s e n I s nee d for co mm un i t y par k
facilities to serve a target population of 36,150. The interests
of the community can be most effectively served by the eventual
acquisition of approximately 60 acres in the southern portion of
the community, 60 acres in the southwestern or western section of
the city and 25 acres adjacent to the east side of lake Ann Park
to accommodate future active recreational needs.
Acquiring land adjacent to lake Ann Park is complicated by two
major items, present ownership and high land cost associated with
the availability of full urban services. Despite these obstacles.
the City of Chanhassen should continue to attempt to acquire
additional land east of lake Ann Park as part of land dedication
requirements combined with land purchases. If the ownership issue
or the land value is ultimately found to preclude the future
expansion of Lake Ann Park, an additional 25+ acres should be
acquired as part of the southern park site- or future third
community park site.
In addition to the future land requirements noted above, the City
should also plan on the acquisition of approximately 40 acres of
additional property to satisfy the need for passive community park
needs. Sites accommodating these uses could be adjacent to and
part of the southern community park site or third community park
site or could be on a totally separate parcel or parcels. Site
selection criteria for passive uses should heavily consider site
amenities.
I trust that this information will prove beneficial to the Park and
Recreation Commission and City Council as they continue their
deliberations. If you need any additional information, please
contact me.
Sincerely,
VAN DOREN-HAZARD-STALlINGS, INC.
by:
t/.J.aJ.14..1
--
R. Mark Koegler
Vice President
RHK:dbm
6
8
C ITV OF
CHAHHASSEN
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
11(
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
DATE: November 21, 1989
SUBJ: Lake Ann Parking Fee
At the November 14th meeting of the Park and Recreation Commission,
a request was made by the Commission to arrange a joint meeting
with the City Council to discuss this item. On November 6th, the .
City Council discussed this item so as to give the Commission
some insight on their views. The minutes of that discussion were
not available for the last Commission meeting. As the Coun-
cil's comments have been stated in the attached minutes, staff
felt a joint meeting would n.ot be necessary.
It is the hope of staff that with this additional information a
decision can be reached and a recommendation passed along to the
City Council.
.
City Council Meeting - Nov~ber 6, 1989
Councilman Johnson: Could we put this on Ollr NovE!lllber 29th agema so we can
have a little ilite to review these EAW's am infotlll the RQJ that we will be
. providing the City of Chanhassen's opinion on their EAW fOllowin:J our Novefl1ber
29th rrleeting? Basically infoIDI the RQJ that's going to be considering this that
we've gotten it too late for it to be considered at this point. That we would
1 ike to express an opinion. Maybe express t.han as iT~H vidua1s too.
Mayor Cl'Ptiel: The FAW is just a 3 sheet is all it is.
Councilltl8Tl Boyt: '!here's a couple of therTl in there.
Mayor C1'ndel: All the others besides but the one that I had looked at here.
Councilltl8Tl Johnson: If you can do one in 3 pages, you didn't do very I1luch on
the EAW.
Mayor Chrdel: '!hat's probably true but SOOletirues SOOle of t.han don't take that
I1luch ei ther .
Councilltlan Boyt: '!hey're proposing qui te an increase in density. '!hey're
talkin:J about goin:J right up on our border with this sort of thing. I agree Jay
that it's probably worth further discussion but I think the letter that Paul is
semirg is just pretty straight forward stuff. Sayin:J that we have a concern
about this. We want Met Collncil to know we're concerned about it am that's
about the size of the letter so I'd like to see that go forward without delay if
we can.
. . Mayor Cbtdel: I don't see any probl~1 with that.
Councilzrlan Boyt: Okay? Next itS'l, take Ann Park fee. The reason I brirg it up
is it's apparently going back to the Park am Rec Catrldssion and I'd like thS'1
to have a bit of input frCllI the Council. The Park am Rec fee stirs debate it
seE!ltlS every year. tast year I think the previous Council might have made this
decision but the decision was made to reduce the fee. There is I believe the
reason Jtloti vating that was by the majority of the Council was that there 1IlBS
SCJTIe sentwlent in the cOOl'lUnity that no one should be charged for using a city
park. I don't agree with that. I think this is a unique city park am it costs
a lot of I1loney to keep it up am we ought to restore the fees we were charg ing
before in ~y opinion because we've gone from raising $23,999.99 to $11,999.99
which nets us $5,999.99. I agree with the staff to SCl'Ite extent but even
$5,999.99 with the btXIget pinch that our city has got is money that's going into
maintainng that Park that we won't have without that fee. That's just my
opinion. I'd like to have the Park and Rec people have the opinion of the rest
of the Council when they discuss it. If you've got any off the cuff COOI'lents.
Mayor C'rttiel: I guess ~y off the cuff CCItItlent would be that I see 1Ilflat the
existing charges are. I don't think we should go back to the previous charges.
'!he higher cost.
Counci1rrl8Tl Boyt: $3.99?
Mayor O'Jttiel: Soole people, well I should say maybe a few that can't afford it.
I know you'd give the $3.99 Bill but I don't know. I want to see the Park costs
. covered by the people that are utilizing it as well.
58
City Council Meeting ~ Nov~~ 6, 1989
Councillllan Boyt: There are two sides to that. That's right:
.
Mayor O'rtdel: An:3 those fran out of town lItlo also utilize that park, are the
ones that should pay for it as well.
Councilman Johnson: What do you think about the youth sports that utilize it? ":
The Little Leaguers that cane in?
Mayor O'rt,iel: Nah.
Councillllan Boyt: I kind of think it should be built into the fees for the
softball people arrl the swiImd~ people arrl SCJlte of those folks. An amual pass
is lItlat, $6.00? That's the best bargain in town short of our ~tings.
Councilwatlan Dwuer: What are other parks doing? 00 you know what other cities
(
are doing with their parks?
Mayor OItdel: I don't know.
----
Councillllan Johnson: I don't know of any other city that charges.
Mayor OItdel: Maybe we should ask the Park am Rec to do a Ii ttle checki~ with
Soote of the other adj acent coollluni ties an:] see what those charges are.
Everything's goi~ up. Everythi~ escalates. All except our salaries.
Councillllan Johnson: We could drop those. .
CouncilIt,an Workrtlan: I'd say keep the fee. Get as I'Iuch of the dam fee as we
can. Use it for Inil foil.
Mayor OItdel: That's another goOO point.
CouncilItlan WOrkrtlan: An:3 put a big sign up at the front gate. '!hank you for
payi~ your fee. You fee will be usa3 for mUfoU am/or other, mowi~ or
whatever.
Councillllan Boyt: A sign wouldn't be a bad idea at this point.
Councillllan Johnson: Your fees pay for the maintenance of this park.
Councilll.an WOrkrt.an: An:3 hire a big thug to stam at the gate an:] pay him $20.00
an hour.
Councilll.an Boyt: Okay, third item. Frontier fble5. I think it's time. We've
hCk3, 1'1" sure since JiI', is ~lovi~, that he probably has S(Jttethi~ to say about
this but we have had one of the principles in Frontier Hootes has CCJl1e in an:]
lied to us. We've had a record, I think it's probably Jim has it in here
sootewhere of the 6 or 7 hooeowners that are still dissatisfied. We have at
least one local resident or one local merchant who savs Frontier Hootes owes than
I'Ioney an:] they can' t get it frool than. I think we Ou9ht to put an ad in. I
think we ought to put it in the Sailor once am we ought to put it in the .
Villager one ti~Ie. It doesn't have to be very big but I think the wording is in ..
59
C ITV OF
CHARHASSEN
c..,
1
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator ~
November 8, 1989 ?
DATE:
SUBJ:
Accessability
Since our last discussion on accessability, I have received the
attached information:
-
- Minnesota State Building Code
- Accessability information ~rom Bloomington
- Hennepin Parks Accessibility Study
I have attached this information to assist in our definition of
"accessability".
iJ/ "'._1 <- /;"
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f'Vl ~rz)-5 Am
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4^~
,.
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
/0
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation
coordinato~
DATE:
November 21, 1989
SUBJ: Trail Plan
This item is placed on the agenda to discuss the prioritization .
of trail segments and modifications to the overall plan. In the
past, both the Council and Commission have expressed that certain
trail connections have definit~ priority, specifically along TH
101, CR 17, Minnewashta Parkway, etc.
The Commission has expressed the need to prioritize the entire
plan, so as to concentrate the limited funds on the most needed
alignments. Additionally, it may be desirable to modify the plan
if future referendum funds are to be
Attached please find the Trail Plan as
Please review the plan and be prepared
and any amendments
rently exists.
iscuss your priorities
.
.
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
/ t
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation
coordinato~
DATE:
November 17, 1989
SUBJ: Zamboni
.
As you are all aware, the City purchased a zamboni to resurface
the ice at the indoor rink. Since the indoor rink is no longer
available, and it cannot be used on the outdoor rinks as it has
a tendency to freeze up and must be stored in a heated facility,
staff is suggesting it be sold.
The zamboni was purchased jointly by the City and by Bloomberg
Companies for $5,000 with the agreement that they would be reim-
b'rsed for their share if it was ever~old. The agreement also
states that their share would decrease by 50% of the repairs if
such were to occur. Since that time, we have put roughly $1,500
into it (see attached list>, making their share $1,750.
It is the recommendation of this office to authorize staff to
sell the zamboni for the best price available and reimburse
Bloomberg Companies $1,750.
.
ZAMBONI
Purchase Price
Drive Sprocket
Pick Up Chain
Paint & Decals
.
$5,000.00
670.72
765.70
64.35
$6,500.77
.
.
.
.
.
~&1qt?
CITY OF
CHAHHASSEN
~~L..f
/...//-;t
~
(!.. ~ f4~ -J.~" r-
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
-~
TO:
Don Ashworth, City Manager
_ 1~/;;J3/1?
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinato:~~
December 21, 1987 ~~~
r:
1;1 / 17
DATE:
l,
SUBJ: The purchase of a Zamboni for the indoor rink
;19.1..... ~ - ~(._
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The Park and Recreation Commission recently reviewed a request to
purchase a zamboni for the indoor rink.
The indoor rink has the potential to break even and even make
money. However, this has not happened in the past due to our
inability to maintain a quality ice surface. The building has a
condensation problem on one end that causes water to drip onto
the ice, which then forms lumps. Also, when the weather hovers
around freezing or above, we are unable to resurface the rink
with the water truck as it does not freeze. Therefore, it has
been requested that we purchase a small zamboni.
The zamboni will allow us to shave the bumps off the ice and
resurface it with a thin layer of water. Because it is a thin
layer of ice, we will be able to resurface the rink more fre-
quently for much higher ice quality.
The zamboni is currently under the ownership of a zamboni dealer.
He is willing to train our maintenance staff and provide opera-
tion manuals. The zamboni will cost $5,000.
Originally the CCHA was planning to donate one-half of the total
price. They are not financially able to do that, however, due to
the amount of capital it has taken to make imporvements on the
ice arena. Bloomberg Companies, having a vested interest in the
building as landlord, has agreed to pay $2,500 for the zamboni.
The zamboni would be solely owned by the City, however, Bloomberg
Companies would hold a security interest in the machine.
The Park and Recreation Commission was concerned that the zamboni
would not solve the condensation problem. They were also con-
cerned about the security interest and how that would affect the
ownership. They requested that the zamboni be inspected and a
written statement of condition be provided by the seller.
Don Ashworth
December 21, 1987
Page 2
.
The Park and Recreation Commission acted to approve the purchase
of the zamboni for $5,000. They will use $2,500 of the money
donated by the Lion's Club and the security interest of $2,500
made by Bloomberg Companies to pay for the purchase. The Com-
mission made this approval based upon the following conditions:
1. Staff would work with the zamboni dealer to have the
hydraulics, engine and compression inspected and obtain a
written statement of condition.
2. The zamboni would be operated and scheduled by authorized
City staff only.
3. The City would accept the security interest from
Bloomberg Companies with the stipulation that 50% of any
major repairs will be paid from that interest, and the
City has the option to pay back the interest at any time.
4. Bloomberg Companies agree to install insulation in the
roof of the building if the condensation problem is not
solved by the zamboni.
Attached please find a letter to Brad Johnson regarding these con- .
ditions. I will request authorization for payment upon the satis-
faction of these conditions.
.
up
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CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
December 17, 1987
Mr. Brad Johnson
Box 100
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Brad:
As you know, the Park and Recreation Commission authorized the
purchase of the Zamboni provided the following conditions are
met:
.
1. The City must receive a written statement of condition
upon the completion of an inspection of the machine's
engine, hydraulics and compression.
2. The machine will be operated and scheduled only by
authorized personnel.
3. An agreement with Bloomberg Companies stipulates that any
major repairs on the machine will reduce the secured
interest by 50% of the cost of those repairs.
4. The City has the option to payoff the secured interest
at any time.
5. Bloomberg Companies agrees to install insulation in the
ice arena if the condensation problem is not solved with
the Zamboni.
I believe all of these conditions were agreeable to you. I will
process payment of the Zamboni as soon as these conditions are
met.
Please call Dale, Todd or myself if you have any questions.
Sincerely,
. cJo.4
Lori Sietsema
Park and Recreation Coordinator
LS/ktm
CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 8, 1987
.
Chairman Lynch called the meeting to order.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mike Lynch, Curt Robinson, Jim Mady, Ed Hasek, Sue-Boyt,
and Larry Schroers ~
MEMBERS ABSENT: Carol Watson
STAFF PRESENT: Lori Sietsema, Park and Rec Coordinator; Todd Hoffman,
Park and Rec Assistant; and Dale Gregory
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Hasek moved, Mady seconded to approve the Minutes of
the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated November 24, 1987 as
amended on page 1. All voted in favor and motion carried.
REVIEW REQUEST TO PURCHASE ZAMBONI, ~ JOHNSON.
* Due to a problem in taping, a portion of Brad Johnson's presentation
regarding the zamboni was deleted. The following is a summary of what was
presented.
Having an ice rink proves that people will be drawn into the downtown are.
With better ice conditions the ice rink can get top dollar for it's use.
The Hockey Association just wants to be a tenant and will put $500.00 to
$1,000.00 into the ice rink but they can't afford to put any more than
that.
Brad Johnson: ...the $2,500.00 was intended to be a gift. The
Association, you could probable create some type of fund raiser outside of
the Association but the Association itself just sees that it should be a
tenant. We spent a lot of money on ice time and we raise the money to do
that and we prefer to have that distributed evenly over all the programs
and not just the program in Chanhassen. That's how we got to where we are.
Going down your list, the zamboni fellows have been out here a couple
times. We just have never had any cold weather to make the thing work. I
think he told you the same thing. He'd be more than happy to come out
here. All this guy does is just like you, he runs around all night fixing
things. If the zamboni's broke down, he's got a service and he does it all
himself. If one dies, the rinks are down so he's got to run around and
fix those things so he said, why don't you just get some ice and we'll come
over and make it work. That has made us comfortable so far. His wanting
to make the operation work. I'm sure he wants future business from
Chanhassen and he knows we're thinking about building a rink and stuff like
that so I don't think if we checked them out, they've got a track record of
ripping off people as far as zamboni people. He is a zamboni rep. He also
sells zamboni machines here. As far as a guarantee, I think it's tough to
guarantee it. I don't know if you guys ever guarantee a used car, but a 25
year old vehicle I think has been suspect and try to figure out what's .
wrong. It's obviously got a brake problem or something in the right hand
side...! think we can work through that so I think that's the concept.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 2
.
They are willing to come out and work with us to make it work. They've
been out, like I said I think"3 times but we just have never had the
opportuni. ty to see what kind of problems we would have. We do want to get
a manual and they assure us they're trying to find a manual or a copy of a
manual will be made up. As I said, the financial commitment that the
Hockey Association has had, remembering that they put about $12,000.00 into
that so far in man hours, they feel that they're just kind of tapped out
plus, as I said, the income goes to the city, not anybody else. For the
best answer, that's what Rick and I decided is to just increase the overall
rents... As far as operational schedules and so forth, I think that only
makes sense. As a coach and a member of the Hockey Association, the last
thing we like to do is have league meetings. Once we get going in the
season, just like you guys, we have to know and those of you in soccer, if
you had to play soccer. It's disruptive so I think that just only makes
sense. One of the reasons we also have this relationship with the City is
that we said if we rent it or Bloomberg or anybody else rented it, the
insurance costs, all those kinds just come out of the woodwork so i.t's
worked out very well. We've kept the expenses down, I'd say fairly low.
The think doesn't make money yet for the city. If we ever have a cold year
it would probably break even. Then as far as security interest, we could
probably draft something that basically said they have an interest in it up
to $2,500.00 if you ever owed money on it. I don't know if that's a good
idea or bad idea. I guess that's how we did it. There was a lot of
discussion about the problems in the rink and as Dale said, I just can't
believe the size, we don't have huge bumps and if they're in there more
often than we are, I think that the blade on the machine will keep the ice
in good shape. I think the bottom line is that you'll find better usage of
the rink once we figure out how to get it done. A couple of weeks of hard
knocks trying to figure out how to get it over there and get it flooded and
that type of thing but that's basically our answer to it. Creative
financing but there might be another way of doing it. You've got the use
of $2,500.00 from Bloomberg and try and find some other means.
Dale Gregory: Where's that thing going to be stored?
Brad Johnson: Where it is.
Dale Gregory: Right now? That means you're going to have to drive it back
and forth each time you use it?
Brad Johnson: Yes. The ones in Boston, what they were going to do, is
they had outdoor rinks and they actually were going to use it for surfacing
their outdoor rinks and they would drive it one block. There are a number
of rinks in northern Minnesota, they are outdoors in smaller towns like Red
Lake and places that have outdoor rinks and they use those machines for
surfacing.
Schroers: Do you feel that if the improvements are made on the building
. that you want with the insulation and the consistency and all that combined
with having the zamboni that the revenue generated would be satisfactory?
Do you have any figures as to how much revenue you think you would generate?
Park and Rec Commission
December 8, 1987 - Page 3
.
Brad Johnson: We've been over to Hopkins and Hopkins rented 600 hours a
year and we haven't hit that number at all. Part of it's programming and
getting good and organized. This year we've got a couple of industrial
leagues coming in. We're getting more calls. People are starting to find
out that we've got it here. Last year we had the whole Hinnetonka
Association here. The weather plus the ice. I had days when they called
me at home, the Hockey Association and said get over here. We've got 1,000
guys trying to play and it's all wet. We did pretty good. We did pretty
good. Our kids improved over the year. In fact our kids got better than
their kids over there because they had more use of the ice and they didn't
have anything at all but I think we just have to have a good, reasonable
operation. It's a sales kind of problem. They're buying a service, it's
their money and they match us against something else.
Todd Hoffman: Approximatey one-third of the time is for opening skating so
that's not going to generate any revenue and approximately one-third is for
the Hockey program and then about one-third is left over for adult
programs. People can call up and reserve an hour of ice time if they want
to have it.
Schroers: What are you charging, like $45.00 an hour now?
Todd Hoffman: Yes.
Brad Johnson: Just raise it $5.00.
.
Lynch: What happened in the Hopkins barn last year? Were they able to get
any ice at all?
Brad Johnson: I would guess they had the same problem we did but I did not
check with them. We had a month and a half of ice but it was touch and go.
Dale Gregory: Do they have concrete floor over there or is that dirt?
Lynch: You can get into specific soil conditions where the soil is
particularly non-conductive and you might have that problem. I'd be
interested to see if Hopkins froze more than a month and a half.
Brad Johnson: The first year what happened, one end of the rink was heated
while we were building the boards and the other end wasn't so when we
flooded the rink, remember that? One end would freeze and the other end
wouldn't so that was that year. It was just a disaster. Then last year we
just couldn't keep up with it. He says he normally tries to get out about
15 inches of ice on it. Dale, you've never had the benefit of any kind of
cold weather on it to build anywhere near that.
Dale Gregory:
ice surface.
When we've had cold weather for short periods, it's a good
It's surprising the surface.
Brad Johnson: It doesn't crack or doesn't do anything.
.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 4
Dale Gregory: Real stable. Holds up well.
Boyt: Do you know what the projected life expectancy of the zamboni is?
Brad Johnson: I don't know.
Boyt: Is the zamboni company interested in taking that and trading it?
Brad Johnson: Normally that's what they do. As a matter of fact, that's
where he got this. He just got another one in on a trade that he got.
Boyt: That's the 30 year old. It doesn't matter to him.
Brad Johnson: They're selling them. There's a market for a zamboni.
I'm not an expert on it but as long as they run and work.
Boyt: And will Dale be doing the maintenance on the zamboni?
Sietsema: Yes.
Boyt: Do you have time for that in the winter?
.
Dale Gregory: If it gets to anything major enginewise or anything like
that, then we'll have to go to the mechanic at the shop.
Boyt: Yes, but I mean changing the blade once a week.
Dale Gregory: That general maintenance is no big deal.
Boyt: You have the time?
Dale Gregory: Yes.
Schroers: According to what we have here, we've agreed to purchase the
zamboni based on the conditions that are mentioned here. I guess is there
anyone willing to give a written guarantee according to the condition of
the machine right now? Will they want to do that?
Dale Gregory: I think you were saying, and I've got to tend to agree with
you, that to get a guarantee on something 25 years old.
Schroers: No, I'm not asking for someone to put like a warranty or a
guarantee on it, just someone that will state that it is in good operating
condition at the present time.
Brad Johnson: He was suppose to send me a letter on Sunday stating that.
As a prerequisite of all this, he's agreed to come out and work through the
system and see how it works. We've checked it out and to say what can you
.dO when you can't make any ice, that's what we're waiting for.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 5
.
Lynch: There's a number of specific wear items I think that Larry is
probably referring to. Does the engine have good compression? Has the
gear case oil been sent in for one of these $25.00 analysis to see how much
metal it has in it? What are the conditions of the brake pads and tires
and the bearings? We're not talking about a left handed widgit that gets
loose and falls off on one side. We're talking major items that could be
gauged. A good mechanic can look at it and tell you. Yes it is or no it
isn't.
Rich Larsen: Mike, I called the fellow and talked to him and basically
what he told me, he says there's a new blade with it. They've put new pads
on it and basically they put new brakes in it. Now there is something
wrong wi th one of the brakes. As far as the motor and hydraul ics or
anything else, they haven't gotten into any of that.
Lynch: Alright, I'd want to have eventually the engine and the hydraulics
looked at because everybody in the hydraulics business has portable test
kits so you can slam it on there and see what the condition of the
hydraulic system is in just a number of minutes. Compression checks are
not that tough. Several other things, I'm sure the city mechanic could do
to look that engine over.
Dale Gregory: The engine, that would be no problem. I could even do the .
compression check on that. _
Lynch: Just because it starts doesn't mean...
Dale Gregory: If he takes them in trade, does he rebuild them or refurbish
them? Is that something you want him to look at and check the hydraulics
and all that sort of stuff out so you can get a letter from him stating
that?
Lynch: I'd like to have that before anybody paid cent number one because
obviously the thing that bothers us Brad is let's say we recommend to the
Council that this goes ahead and that all these other conditions are met
and it goes ahead and it's used for 2 weeks or a month and it goes down.
They come out and look at it and they say, gee it's pretty major stuff
here. We're looking at $1,800.00 to fix this. $1,800.00 nowadays is a
drop in the bucket.
Hasek: Lori, what's the timing between this meeting and when it would get
to Council?
Sietsema: If you approve the purchase, it will be put in the
administrative package that we purchased it. It will not go to Council for
approval.
Brad Johnson: I think what the guy was telling me on the guarantee is that
he can check things and do things. We can check things to make sure they.
work out before we pay for it. He just can't warranty the future of the
machine. .
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Park and Rec Commi.ssion Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 6
Schroers: We understand that. We just want to make sure that...
Lynch: By a guarantee we didn't need a warranty. What we want those- guys
to tell us, in writing basically, a molded statement that the machine is in
good condition. I want to know that they have new brakes in it. That the
engine and compression check and the timing has been looked at, that it has
a decent battery in it, the battery checks out fine and the hydraulic
system is okay, that the tires are 50% worn, 75% good or whatever it is.
I'd like to see an analysis on it. The same thing I would ask of someone
that I was purchasing a piece of equipment from.
Brad Johnson: Who do we have to do that?
Dale Gregory: I don't know who we would get off hand but I guess what I'm
wondering is, is that something you would want from him so you could go
back on and say.
Lynch: You bet.
Dale Gregory:
this.
I guess I'm looking at it, he's the one who should be doing
Lynch: He wants to sell us the machine and I want him telling me exactly
. what that machine is like because I don't have the expertise to do and
neither do probably the rest of us to go down and look at the thing, number
one.
Rich Larsen: Engine wise, I don't think there's anyway around it. I think
we would have to have R & R come in. I don't even know that he would
actually have to personally do anything. The guy is fami.liar with the
machine. I think if we can get that, that letter that indicates.
Lynch: Again, not general. Go through the major systems and tell us that
they're alright.
Rich Larsen: There really are only three major systems on the machine.
The engine itself, hydraulics, the mechanical and the pickup system.
Lynch: We're not worried about the normal wear and tear. We're worried
about catatrosphic failure.
Mady: I'm wondering if that's probably something we can rely on staff on.
We can trust the staff to do, if we ask them to, they can see to it that
it's done prior to sending the check. Make sure that they prove to them
that the hydraulic system is good. That the engine has good compression.
I'm not sure what else we can do.
Lynch: The tires and brakes.
. Rich Larsen: The tires we saw on there are in good shape. It's generally
what you can see is in decent shape. It's the things that you can't see.
Pa~k and Rec Commission Meeting .
Decembe~ 8, 1987 - Page 7
Sch~oe~s: I had a question on bea~ings. On a machine that's 25 yea~s old,
how good a~e the bea~ings?
Lynch: Do they have se~vice ~eco~ds on the machine?
..
B~ad Johnson: I'm not su~e they do. It was o~iginally owned by the Ice
Capades and so~t of sitting up no~th fo~ 5 o~ 6 yea~s.
Rich La~sen: It came out of Wisconsin.
B~ad Johnson: Yes, it wasn't being used. It was just pa~t of somebody.
Rich La~sen: It was being used by some fellow in Wisconsin had some small
~inks that we~e used fo~ figu~e skating. Now whethe~ he's got records or .
not, I don't know.
..---
Robinson: Can we go back to 2 weeks ago and work for word the motion that
Jim made? To recommend to make the commitment to purchase the zamboni upon
the following conditions being met and until that time the item is tabled.
The zamboni will be checked out by a zamboni rep who will indicate that
it's in good shape and worth $5,131313.1313. Maybe that has, I'm not sure. The
Hockey Association will donate $2,51313.1313 for solving the dripping of the
condensation. Has that one been met?
.
Brad Johnson: We just spoke with the Hockey Association. They're no
interested in investing. We'll tell them how the Hockey Association
perceives it.
Rich Larsen:
It's a City-Bloomberg thing, not a Hockey Association thing.
Robinson: Right, but we said we would table it until these are met and
that one hasn't been met. Reject security interest of Bloomberg Companies?
Mady: I've thought a lot about this since two weeks have occurred and I
don't think it's right for us to tell the Hockey Association to spend money
in a facility that they don't own, they have no responsibility in. That's
a City facility.
Boyt: No it's not.
Mady: Well, it's not their facility.
Boyt:
it.
It's Bloomberg's facility. It's Mr. Bloomberg's facility and we use
Mady: We lease it.
Sietsema: It's a City operation.
Mady: It's a City operation so I don't think we can tell them they have t.
do something so we can do something. I don't think that's right. I think
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 8
it's the City's responsibility for the building. If the City and the Park
and Rec Commission feels we need a ice arena, it's the City's
responsibility to have an ice arena. It's great that we have a Hockey
Association that's willing to put money into it, do some work and all the
things that they're doing over there but I don't believe it's their
responsibility to keep the thing going. They did a good job binding it and
getting it started. I think it's really a city's responsibility to keep
that running.
Robinson: This was your motion 2 weeks ago Jim.
Mady: Yes, but I'm saying I'm going to reconsider it.
Lynch: I don't have a problem with that as long as it's working. As far
as I'm concerned it can drip as long as the dripping doesn't cause extra
work for Dale or make extra wear and tear on whatever piece of equipment
they're using to service it. Whether you're running around with a truck
with blades on it or whatever it happens to be. Y6u're doing it with the
tractors now.
Dale Gregory: We would scrap it with the tractor.
Lynch: It was unable to handle it in most cases?
.
Dale Gregory: Yes, but now it's a little different situation. It's a
homemade scraper that we've got with weights on the back. I'm sure a
zamboni would do it a lot better.
Mady: The blade probably isn't as sharp.
Dale Gregory: It's the same blade. It's a paper cutting blade. We use
the same thing but like I say, the condensation problem, I guess the thing
that's going to curious with the zamboni is how fast it freezes. If it
freezes up fast, we can go in there like at, they open up at 3:00, we can
go in there at 2:00 and actually do the rink so it would be all shaved off
and ready for that thing. Then like I say, we can eliminate the
condensation problem that way but the way we were working it, we flooded it
in the morning and it would freeze up and by afternoon...That's what I'm
saying. With the zamboni it would probably go in there at 2:00 and shave
it off and it would freeze and it would be ready at 3:00. It depends on
how fast it freezes up there if you use the zamboni on that.
Lynch: What bothers me is one of these hidden catch deals. If we do get
the zamboni and the condensation problem is still a problem, the zamboni's
not able to handle it or it occurs so fast after you go out and level the
ice with the zamboni that by the time people can get on it, it's got lumps
on it. People say we're not going on there to pay $25.00 an hour to skate
on lumpy ice. Then I can see real quickly where the City, it's going to be
a problem. ...said today it's your guys program. If you need some
. building modifications in there, take care of it. Bloomberg properties
doesn't need to insulate that end of it.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 9
.
Sietsema: They might.
Brad Johnson: We had a chat about this and they said they would i.f they
needed to. The solution I perceive because I've spent a lot of time over
at the rink, he was over there when they were flooding and I said it
appeared to be that most of the problem with the condensation could be just
covered by shaving it periodically at the proper time.
Robinson: Strict operational policy and operational schedules will be made
by City Staff and implemented by staff.
Lynch: No problems there?
Brad Johnson: None.
Schroers: How do you feel about training an operator and seeing to it that
only properly trained people operate it?
Brad Johnson: That's the way it has to be. Normally it's the rink
attendant who runs it.
Rich Larsen:
there?
How many different rink attendants do you typically have over
.
Sietsema:
Last year we had two people.
Rich Larsen: What were their ages?
Sietsema: 21 and 19 were the two ages.
Schroers: So we could insure that they would be responsible people.
Sietsema: He have not yet hired anyone for thi.s year but we do have this
in mind so that we're looking for people who would be responsible, old
enough to take the responsibility.
Schroers: And who would supervise and check on them?
Sietsema: Todd.
Schroers: You don't feel that that would be any kind of a major problem?
You have a real good handle on who was operating it and when?
Hoffman: One of the persons that has an application in is a third year
college student, has worked in an ice arena before and has run zambonis and
that person i.s able to work all weekends and most of the weekdays. Then
there's a couple other people that are older, second and third year college
students that are available to work.
Sietsema: Dale would also be supervising them and training them.
.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 10
5chroers: It's apparent to me that there is certainly enough interest
and enough people tha t would like to use the fac i I i ty if we could prov ide
them with a good facility. I think that's what I'd like to do is try to
work together to provide as good a facility as we can. It doesn't seem as
though we're talking about that large of amount of money. We should be
able to work something out.
Mady: Do you have any remaining real difficult problems?
Robinson: Yes, number 4 said reject the security interest of Bloomberg
Companies which is related to number 2. Now, I think so out of the four,
I think the first one probably has. The zamboni rep has been talked to but
the financing has not. It has not been addressed and that was one of the
things we had to have.
Lynch: Here, we tried to offer an alternative. We said, we didn't want
to be in parternship with a private party on a piece of city owned, city
maintained, city insured equipment. We said well, maybe Bloomberg can lend
the money to the Hockey Association and the Hockey Association can donate
that. I'd also go this far with a secured interest if it was a truly
uncommon secured interest where Bloomberg pays half, we pay half, we both
own half. We cover the routine maintenance which would be specified under
a certain dollar value of $200.00 per item but any major expenses over a
.certain level would have to be shared as well. If the long term shared
value of the machine at sale or trade in is going to be shared, major
maintenance normally is too. The other side of the picture I see is even
though I know this is not a large profit center for Bloomberg Properties,
the legal aspect of it is that they are taking half of the rental monies
and if they do maintain a secured interest of a half of the machine, I'd
like to see them up the liability for catastrophic failure, maintain that
side too.
Hasek: Let me understand this. When we talked about this before we had
two options. What we were looking for was a $2,500.00 commitment by them
to do something. Either to correct the ceiling prOblem or to pay for half
of the zamboni. We talked about total outright purchase of this last time.
We talked about buying the whole thing.
Lynch: I don't see them ...the ceiling.
Hasek: What you're suggesting is that perhaps the zamboni can fix the
problem. If the problem can't be fixed, they are willing to make a
commitment to do that which is really what we've asked them to do except
here it says the Association make a financial commitment to either purchase
the zamboni or to correct the condensation problem on the rink. What they
are saying if the zamboni can't handle the condensation problems on the ice
surface, they're willing to make a commitment to the ceiling in order to
guarantee a nice surface. 50 really that's what you're talking about
.right?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 11
.
Brad Johnson: Yes, we talked about, just prior to this letter anyway,
doing something with the ceiling. If you guys can figure out how to get
the deal done, I think we're flexible. We just don't want to get hung up
in the Association.
Boyt: I think that makes a lot of sense. We don't ask our soccer teams or
our baseball teams or our basketball teams to help with the facilities at
all. I don't think it's fair to ask the Hockey Association to go in to
provide a facility that the whole community uses. Last year the ice was a
problem. The quality of the ice, when it was there, was too bumpy. It's
not as enjoyable and not as many people are going to use it. I think to
provide a quality surface we need the zamboni and I think the Park and Rec
Commission should ask the City to pay for the whole thing.
Hasek: I absolutely agree. I guess what I'm thinking is there still in my
mind is no reason why, if problems with the structure of the building, that
that still can't be handled by.
Boyt: I think the zamboni will still give us a much nicer surface than we
ever had even if there was no condensation problems.
Brad Johnson: We would like to get that ceiling insulated so it keeps it,
it doesn't heat up so fast. We lose a little time in late February and .
March when the sun comes out. It would be nice just to more importantly
insulate.
Sietsema: It's nice to have the extra $2,500.00 in our budget that we
didn't have before. There are requests that come up throughout the year
such as the bleachers which we will be talking about later that we can do
because it's not budgeted where we couldn't otherwise. Our budget is so
tight if we want to do everything that's in our capital improvement program
this year that we do not have room to do anything else. There is nothing
built in there for anything else.
Boyt: What about the Lion's money?
Sietsema: This is the Lion's money. So if we use all of the Lion's money
for the zamboni, we won't be able to do the bleachers.
Brad Johnson:
Lion's money?
Why don't you just use our $2,500.1313 until you get the next
Just hold it and if we have problems with it.
Sietsema: We can't really count on it because they might not make anything
in the next three months. We got the last donation last April and we got
the second one just last month so we can't count on the Lion's money and
they don't want us to count on it but it is somethi ng to cons ider with
Bloomberg giving us this interest free, security interest loan, whatever
you want to call it, it does allow us to still have a li.ttle bit of money
on the reserve to take care of some things that come up throughout the yea.
that we didn't count on like the bleachers which happens to be on the
agenda tonight so I just wanted to bring that to your attention. There
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 12
..
Isn't any money to do anything extra without that. The first donation that
we got went in as our community support for our LAWCON grant applications
so that's in the matching fund. The second one we just got last month,
that's what we're deciding on what we're going to spend that on right now.
That was $5,900.00 so I just wanted to bring that to your attention because
there is that to consider. We don't have a lot of fund money to play with.
We are over budget on last year's capital improvement program.
Hasek: What you're saying is let's take advantage of Bloomberg's offer and
that would just extend our ability to finance the whole thing?
Sietsema: Yes.
Lynch: If we did have a major breakdown of the machine, say $1,000.00 or
more, is that money available? Where would it come from?
Sietsema: That would come out of the maintenance fund.
Lynch: City maintenance fund?
Sietsema: The machine will be owned by the City. We'll just be using
Bloomberg's money.
Brad Johnson: What I hear you saying is, if there was a security interest,
.it sounds like what could happen is that you could ship back to the
Bloomberg Companies maybe a year from now the $2,500.00? If you want to
own the whole machine. Simultaneously if there is some diastrous thing,
say over a couple hundred dollars during the year, if it's a major thing,
we just share that and just reduce our interest in the security. Just
write the deal that way. That way you've got the money.
Rich Larsen: From the Hockey Association's point of view, just thinking
through here what you're saying, if you're willing to put up the $2,500.00,
Bloomberg has already put up the other $2,500.00. If, and or when next
year funds are available that he can get his $2,500.00 back, the City owns
it, either this year or next year, at that time I think to help insure your
minds, the Hockey Association would be willing to accept risk up to
$1,000.00 for catastrophic failure because obviously we are receiving a
benefit of having the rink and I'll go with that because I think that would
pretty well cover Dale's got the everyday wear and tear stuff, I'll pick up
the $1,000.00 or if it's something more than that...
Mady: I guess I'm having some problems with this thing here. We don't ask
CAA to pay for the lawn tractor to cut the grass up here so they can play
baseball, softball, soccer and I don't know why we're asking someone other
than the City to put up money for a security interest or anything else, in
a city asset.
Sietsema: I'm talking about Bloomberg Companies and not the Hockey
~ssociation because Bloomberg does have an interest. He gets more rent
~loney out of that building if we can sell more ice time and we can sell
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 13
.
more ice time if we have quality i.ce and we can have quality ice if we have
the zamboni. So it makes sense to me that we're using this money of
Bloomberg's but it doesn't make sense to me to make the Hockey Association
give it because you're right, we don't ask any other association to ~
maintain their fields. We do that and I think that we should continue to
do that.
Lynch: Correct me if I'm wrong Dale but I don't think we buy any other
equipment that is this specific in nature for any other particular program
that some piece of equipment is not general city use for other things.
Sietsema: Soccer goals, backstops, tennis courts.
. Lynch: That's not equipment. I realize there is maintenance on it but
it's not subject to catastrophic failure and we're not buying 25 year ol~
tennis courts. We're buying a brand new one. ./
Robinson: In my opinion, we hashed this around 2 weeks ago for an hour or
hour and a half and now we've been at it tonight for almost an hour and
nothing has changed from 2 weeks ago except some views have changed but
nothing has changed.
Sietsema:. You've gotten more information than you had last week and that.
was the big holdup 2 weeks ago was lack of information. I didn't have th
right answers.
Robinson: The way the motion read, and I was opposed to the motion that we
had, I don't see what's changed other than when we ask for some specific
things to happen and those haven't happened, I guess I'm disappointed in
the Commission.
Mady: I'd like to have my motion reconsidered. I'm not sure how we do
that with Carol not being here since she was the second on it.
Sietsema: As I recall, what happened last night at the Council level, when
there should be a reconsideration it takes a two-thirds vote to have the
motion reconsidered and being your the one that made the motion, I think
that we can do it.
Boyt: Does reconsider mean just a revote or that we can revise?
Sietsema: Restructure the motion.
Boyt: Curt, apparently the way the security interest was voted last week
isn't the way it is so that information was incorrect. We still don't have
the information from number 1. I think they're still asking for some
information before any final decision is made.
Robinson: But the receipt on the check says security interest. Brad says.
that we can work all that out.
Park and
December
.
Lynch:
Rec Commission Meeting
8, 1987 - Page 14
If we get something in writing.
Brad Johnson: The security interest has to be signed by both parties and we
can work that out with staff and review it next time. My concern is that
we've got a rink that we're trying to play on, we're trying to sell some
ice time so we can get it used and either we don't have a zamboni or we do
have a zamboni. The guy who owns the zamboni could have sold it three
times that we've been waiting for some kind of decision. We're trying to
do what we can and we perceive, I've got a Bloomberg hat on, that we're
partners and if the problem is you don't have the cash at this particular
point to do the transaction, we could supply it. Just that we didn't want
to write it off. If we could figure out some soft way of solving that
problem, that's what we would do. It's your machine and what Mike said, if
we have a catastrophy, weill take a reduction in it. Maybe there's
something we can figure out. I just can't in the next month or two find
the $2,500.00 of the Association. We have a fundraiser specific to pay
back the City for that item I donlt know.
Robinson: But you've had the machine since last January? 11 months?
Brad Johnson: Yes.
Robinson: And we got it brought before us 2 weeks ago tha t we had to make
a decision in 3 days. That was another one of my objections.
.Brad Johnson: If we could finally figure out a vehicle with which to do
it. If funds became available.
Mady moved, Schroers seconded to reconsider the motion of November 24, 1987
regarding purchase of the zamboni. All voted in favor except Curt Robinson
who opposed and motion carried.
Mady moved, Schroers seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommends to purchase the zamboni machine based upon the following
conditions:
1. Staff work with the present owner of the machine and have the
zamboni certified that the major components, i.e. hydraulic
system, engine system, are checked over. Checking compression and
other various tests to insure that the zamboni is in good
operating condition.
2. The zamboni be operated by trained, qualified staff of the City.
3. The City accept the security interest from Bloomberg Companies in
the amount of $2,500.00 and Bloomberg Companies will allow their
security interest to be reduced by a 50% share for any major
repairs that may become necessary during the time period which the
security interest is outstanding.
.
. .
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 8, 1987 - Page 15
.
4. The City retains the right to buyout the security interest at any
point in time.
5. The Bloomberg Companies will agree to install insulation to solve
the condensation problem if the zamboni does not alleviate that
problem.
All voted in favor except Robinson who opposed and motion carried.
Schroers: Do we add about the insulation in the event that the zamboni
isn't able to totally solve the problem with the dripping, that either the
Bloomberg Companies or the Association take the responsibility for doing
the needed insulation repairs to stop the condensation and the dripping?
Lynch: If we did that and proceed on the purchase, we would have to have a
letter from either Bloomberg or the Association that said exactly that.
Rich Larsen: That's not a problem for the Association.
Schroers: Can we just have a good faith commitment from you?
Lynch:
writing.
Like the man said, my word is my bond but I'd rather have it in
I think we have to have that.
.
Schroers: What I'm getting at is if we make the decision to make this
investment to hopefully provide a quality facility, that that's what we
want to end up with. It may take something more than just the zamboni to
have a real nice surface. We may need to have the condensation problem
corrected.
Mady: Okay, then the proviso would be that the Bloomberg Companies would
agree to work with the City and if the condensation problem is not
alleviated through the use of the zarnboni, that they would be made to work
to repair the condensation problem with the building.
Sietsema: I just wanted to let you know that Lake Ann Park is closed right
now. Apparently there was some vandalism done. People did some little
circles, donuts in the grass and tore up the grass.
Dale Gregory: The police a week ago caught somebody out there just driving
allover the place and down towards the lake where the new area is put in,
they just literally cut off and ripped the heck out of it.
Lynch: Four wheeling?
Dale Gregory: I don't know if it was a 4 wheet drive or what it was but
they just spun allover out there and they've got ruts allover the Place..
Lynch: They caught the people?
I.
.
.
.
PARK AND RECREATION ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION
November 28, 1989
A. Letter from Kathleen Macy.
B. Memo from Jim Chaffee re: Archery Range.
C. Letter from MRPA re: Softball Tournaments.
D. Future Agenda Items.
€.. O-r~_\t.,~+ '--I ~
~_c.. /tOM lI,j f I4..c1f
'Ytolc1
Chanhassen Elementary School iiJ
Independent School District 112
7600 Laredo Drive
Chanhassen. Minnesota 55317
612/934-5246 ·
A
.
November 8, 1989
Mr. Dale Gregory,
Please accept this letter in appreciation for the
materials and labor that were allocated to the
construction of the playground equipment at Chanhassen
Elementary School this Fall. Your efforts on behalf of
the children of Chanhassen will bring years of joy for
them and their parents.
The workers who came to remove old equipment, level
the ground, and delivery materials were aware of the
schedule we needed to follow to install the equipment.
They were expedient, precise and careful in their work.
The equipment that now is part of the playground is
constantly used by children It is the collaborative
effort of school and the community that has provided this
play site for children Thank you for your contribution.
.
---.
..('!'
~
cc:
Mr. Gary Warren
Chanhassen Park and Recreation
c/o Lori sietsma
BoardClnf er GHANHASSEN
I ;,~~ (f.)l":1r\1nlCriil
~h I'!)~! hY/1.5illJ
r,]Q V 13 1989
ENGINEERIMG DEPT.
.
.
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
13
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Lori Sietsema, Park
~ Recreation Coordinator
Safety Director~
FROM:
Jim Chaffee, Public
DATE:
November 13, 1989
SUBJ: Archery Range
.
On November 9, 1989, the Public Safety Commission reviewed the
proposed archery range at Lake Susan Park. I explained to the
Commission that the Park and Recreation Commission, yourself, and
Todd Hoffman, have addressed this jssue to include safety con-
cerns. I indicated to them that you are comfortable with the
safety aspects of the range and this location.
Comments were made from the P~blic Safety Commission that an
archery range is needed, and Commission member Barb Klick indi-
cated that she had checked with Minneapc.lis Park's Department and
f.:.und that they have operated archerytanges in Minneapol is f,:)r
clver 70 year s and have had ....c.n I y cine i nei dent.
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION: The Public Safety Com-
missic.n at its regular. meeting cln November 9, 1989, unanimously
supported the placement of an archery range as indicated on the
diagram at Lake Susan Park.
.
"-Ie.
C ITV OF
CHANHASSEN
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Public Safety Commission
Director t
FROM:
Jim Chaffee, Public Safety
DATE-: _ November 7, 1989
SUBJ: Archery Range
Please find attached a memo frome ~i Sietsema regarding a pro-
posed archery range at Lake Sus~n P~rk. You will also note a .
memo to Lor i from me dated OctQ.,J;)er 4;~. 1989, concerning the bow
and arrow range. I indicated . Lor;l!; at this time that there
appeared to be no prohibition ocalry against establishing an
archery range at Lake Susan P k. Thi\.1one remaining concern then
is that of safety. As you n see frd its present proposed
location, it will be out 0 he way of he general usage area of
the park, shielded somewh by landscap g and in a natural
occurring low area.
The Park and Recreation Commission
thoughts regarding proposal.
ing for Public Safety's
.
.
CITY OF
CHAHHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Jim Chaffee, Public Safety Director
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinatorLt
October 17, 1989 ~
DATE:
SUBJ:
Archery Range
.
The Park and Recreation Commission recently reviewed a park
design for Lake Susan Park that includes an archery range. An
archery range is a recreational facility that to date has not been
offered in Chanhassen. Recognizing the need for such, it was
determined that Lake Susan Park is best suited for this type of
activity. The Park and Recreation Commission is recommending
that the Public Safety Commission review this plan before sending
a recommendation for the City Council for approval.
Attached please find the park plan for Lake Susan Park. Also
attached is a memo from Todd Hoffman describing the facility.
Please have the Public Safety Commission review this item at
their next meeting. If you would like someone there to present
this item, please let me know and either Todd or I will attend
the meeting.
.
CITY 0 F
CHANHASSEN
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
DATE:
October 4, 1989
& Recreation Coordinator
Safety Director r
TO:
Lori Sietsema, Park
FROM:
Jim Chaffee, Public
SUBJ: Bow and Arrow Range
You asked me to look at the specifics of the shooting ordinance
in reference to a proposed bow and arrow range at a city park.
I can not find anything in city ordinance that would prevent
the City from establishing a bow and arrow range at Lake Susan
Park. There were two issues that concerned me when this issue
was brought to my attention. The first was the necessity for
obtaining a permit to shoot within the City boundaries. There .
is provision in ordinance however, that states no permit is
required for the discharge of weapons for target practice
purposes within the confines of an approved shooting range.
The second issue dealt with shooting ranges, but it would appear
that a bow and arrow range may be established at Lake Susan Park
under our present shooting ordinance. The snag would be to
establish a shooting range in a no shooting area. Lake Susan
Park does not fall into that category.
I would suggest that due consideration be given to the safety
aspects and possible review by the Public Safety Commission.
The city attorney, Roger Knutson, agrees with my assessment
that no ordinance changes are necessary to establish a bow
and arrow range at Lake Susan Park.
.
.
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CITY 0 F
CHAHHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
-4
FROM:
Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
DATE: October 3, 19&9
SUBJ: Archery Range
.
Please find enclosed a diagram of Lake Susan Park showing the
proposed site for an archery range. This location was deter-
mined to be the most viable site in either Lake Ann or Lake Susan
Park by Scott Harri of Van Doren Hazard Stallings Engineering.
It allows for clear visibility from all directions and is
separated from the main activity areas of the park. There is
ample space for a range up to 100 yards long and the slope is 1%
to 2%.
As you may know, the temporary service road now in place crosses
directly through this area. However, Lake Drive East should
become available for use in November or December of this year
allowing the temporary road to be removed. Construction of the
archery range could then begin in the spring with a foreseeable
co~pletion time of mid-summer, 1990. This would allow for the
range to be open for the late summer practice season. A more
detailed diagram of the archery range will be brought back to the
commission in January or February of 1990. This will also allow
time for the issue of amending the ordinance not allowing weapons
to be discharged in parks to be investigated.
.
NtSOTA RCCRC-1
~\~ \,,,,ttK ASSOC/"l'/Ot\t
'<il>fJ I/O
'" :.t..
f2 ' /11t,r
c
Dear Regional/State Softball Tournament Applicant,
I regret to inform you that the Minnesota Recreation and Park
Association will not be able to use your softball complex for one
of our 1990 tournaments. There were many bids for these
tournaments, but after a difficult selection process, the
Recreation sports Commission made their selections at their
November meeting.
I would like to thank you for your interest in the MRPA and for
taking the time to complete our bid sheet. I hope to hear from you
again next year. Our 1991 bid sheets will be sent to communities
in September.
Sic;rAe~y,. __
/~~
Gerry Turnberg,
MRPA Program Director
USSSA State Director
NOV 14 1989
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
Minnesota Recreation and Park Association. "" Douglas Drive N. · Golden Valley, MN 55422
Phone: 612/544-1592 800-862-3659
.
DATES
1990 MRPA REGIONAL & STATE SOFTBALL TOURNAMENTS
-----------------.-...---------------------------------.-------------------------
TOURNEY
Site
July 13-15
Boy's Jr. (8)
Boy's Sr. (24)
Girl's Jr. A (10)
Girl's Jr. B (24)
Girl's Sr. A (12)
Girl's Sr. B (21)
Ch~lin
Ch~lin
Fridley
Fridley
Fridley
Fridley
Aug. 3-5
...--.......---.----........-...................---..........--..---.........----
Men's A (16)
Men's B (42)
Men's C Re;ion I (28)
Men's C Re;ion JJ (34)
Men's C Re;ion III (32)
Men's C Re;ion IV (38)
Wamen's A (8)
Wanen's B (17)
Wanen's Church (8)
lurnllville
lurnsville
White lear Lake
Shakopee
Lakevi lie
Shakopee
Shakopee
Lakevi lIe
Aug. 10-12
..--.-------.------....-----...---.......-----.-------......-----.--.-----.-.....
.
Men's C State (22)
Men's D Re;. I-North (22)
Men's D Re;. I-South (38)
Men's D Re;. II (48)
Men's D Re;. III (34)
Men's D Re;. IV (60)
Co-Ree. 11112" A (16)
Co-Ree. 11112" B (23)
Lakeville
Ely
White Bear Lake
Chaq:>l in
Shakopee
Rosevi lIe
Rochester
Rochester
Aug. 17-19
---...-..--.------...----------....-----...------------...--.-.---.-.-.-..------.
Men's D State (22)
Men's Ind. A (14)
Men's Ind. B (22)
Men's Church A (16)
Men's Church B (32)
Wamen's C State (42)
Wanen's D Re;. I-N (12)
Wamen's D Re;. I-S (16)
Wamen's D Re;. II (16)
Wamen's D Re;. III (16)
Wamen's D Re;. IV (16)
Women's Industrial (8)
Hopkins/Minnetonka
Fridley
Fridley
Lakeville
Lakevi lie
Ea;an
Grand Rapids
Fridley
Alexandria
Edina
Village 1m
Fridley
Aug. 24-26
.........---.--.---....----...............---......---..-.._.....---~...._-_._---
Men's Ind. C (41)
Men's Ind. D (34)
Men's Over 35 A (18)
Men's Over 35 B (19)
Men's Over '0 (26)
Women's D State (16)
Map I ewood
Ilaine
Pl,.outh
Pl,.outh
Lakeville
Lekevfll e
Sept. 7-9
...............................-----...---.........--------------------.---------
Pipestone
Pipestone
Co-Ree 1611 A (8)
Co-Ree 1611 B (16)
Co-Ree I'll A (16)
Co-Ree 1411 . (26)
.
Sept. '-3
.-...-...........................-..................----...-.....................
Men's CIa" D
Centrel Division (75)
Pl,.outh
......--........................---..--..........-.......-.-...-...-....--......-
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