Loading...
1987 01 20 Agenda . . . AGENDA SPECIAL JOINT MEETING CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL/PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION TUESDAY, JANUARY 20, 1987, 7:30 P.M. CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE 1. Call to order. 2. Park and Recreation Commission Goals and Objectives. 3. Park and Recreation Needs Survey. 4. Capital Improvement Program Budget. S. Adjournment. CITY OF CHAHHASSEH 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: January 20, 1987 SUBJ: Park and Recreation Commission Goals and Objectives Attached are the 1987 goals and objectives for the Park and Recreation Commission. These goals were prepared by individual Commissioners for discussion at tonight's meeting. ;;L . . . . CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREA'rION COMMISSION GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, JANUARY 1. 1987 GOAL: PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MUST INTERFACE EFFECTIVELY WITH CITY STAFF, CITY COUNCIL AND RESIDENTS. OJECTIVES: . 1) To deal effectively the City Council needs good and timely information. To accomplIsh this, the Park and Recreation commission should assign one member per month to attend all city council meetings to answer any questions which may arise or present the Park and Recreation plan on a given subject. Timing: Immediately 2) To be responsive to the residents of Chanhassen, the Park and Recreation Commission must know the desires of its residents. In order to do this, Bi-Annua1, statistically accurate, sample surveys should be made.. Further, the commission should hold monthly meetings in the parks prior to the regular commission meetings to learn the wishes of the residents. The meetings sho1d be held during the months of good weather and a mailing should go out a week ahead of the meeting to1nform the residents of the meeting. Timing: Six Months GOAL: DEVELOPEMENT OF PARKS AND TRAILS MUST BE DASED ON A DETAILED PLAN. ODJECTIVES: 1) Developement of a comprehensive plan in general terms to show long range objectives. Timing: Two Months 2) Determine park defincient areas and develope a plan to acquire park land thru the use of deeded land in lieu park dedication fees, outright purchase or trading parcels between deve1opements. . Timing: Two Years 3) Develope a comprehensive trail plan that connects with trails in neighboring co~~unities .if possible. Plan should include main artiria1 trails and feeder trails connecting park land. Trails could run east and west along highway 5 and south along highway 101 and north along Kerber boulevard. . R~C:::'::!:) DEe 24 1986 CITY. OF CHANHA~ l Timing: Two Years 4) Determine the possibility of a centrally located indoor active play facility simular to the downtown community center being proposed as part of the downtown redevelopement. ' . Timing: Five Years 5) City staff to take over the planning and running of all organized team sports and active and passive activities related to recreation for all ages. Timing: Five to Ten Years l . ( . \ t~ . . <e GOALS & OBJECTIVES FOR 12/6/86 MEETING DISCUSSION *Methods of interface with Council to: -Clarify proposals -Insure intent is understood -Prevent misunderstanding -Convey depth of our preparation *Catalog of parks with yearly update to be distributed to all P&R members, Council, staff, neighborhood assoc., etc. (ML & LS to work up) *Investigate possibility of advance land purchase or options in undeveloped and/or park deficient areas. *Regular financial reports (quarterly?) -Total funds available -Specific allocation or use accounts -Projected income (yearly) -Expenditure budget -Expenditures against budget *Identify park service areas. Updade Comp Plan service areas if necessary. Condensed 1-2 page report for comm. reference at meetings. Empahsis on deficient zones. *Project and lay some ground rules assumption of all organized new & athletic or recreation programs. Hockey Assoc., etc interface with for eventual City staff existing youth & adult Develop concept for CAA, City programs. *Complete development of trail system design, constr. spec costing analysis, maintenance estimates, on/off street variations. Map proposed systems and distribute to comm. for ready reference. Show trails by: -Existing-hard surface -Existing-chip or gravel -OWned but not developed -Unowned but needed [-<ECi::- ,,om DEe 1 7 1986 e'l r V.- \", li\:...i :.'\SSEN . \. . ). l *Show important details such as bridges, step complexes, underpasses, etc. *Since park & facility awareness seems to be an issue of concern at Council level, can we develop methods in addition to present (Chan Post, etc) to educate residents? *Continue to improve and support special activities (July 4th, Halloween, etc.) and add others. Seek advance volunteer help committments from township organizations (JC's, CC, Legion, Lions, Fire Dept., Scouts, etc.). ( l . . . I · \ I .. Ie ~ I I I I I I Ie I I I I I I I Ie I .. ~ . CITY 0 F CHANBASSEH l) 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: December ~, 1986 SUBJ: 1987 Park and Recreation Capital Improvement Program The Park and Recreation Commission has prepared a Capital Improvement Program for the 1987 Budget. The Co~~ission has listed a number of projects bringing the total budget to $80,500. Attached please find the minutes of September 9 and December 2 outlining each project. Manaqer's Comments: The 1987 Budget includes $40,000 for park development projects. The Park Commission had not completed their listing of priority projects at tim~ of preparation of the 1987 Budget and, as such, the allocation as shown in the budget was solely a guess. This amount paralleled previous years and, for the past two years, the Park Commission has been signi- ficantly under in actual projects completed (see attached budge- tary sheets). - Accounting principles advocate that current expenditures should not exceed current revenue. 1987 revenue is estimated at $71,000. In light of an unencumbered balance of $134,000 (such not including the $100,000 fund reserve), and in light of pre- vious underspending, the Council could reasonably consider making the allocation as requested by the Park commission.~ , &ake Ann~ ~SWimming Dock Replacement '-Legion Park Shelter (Water/Electric) vSand VOlleYball COurt rKUPOSED 1987 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM BaDGET PARK AND RECREATION Lake Susan Park - -- $ 1,300.00 2,500.00 300.00 . vFishing Dock vVolleYball COurt Sign Running track Kitchen Facilities Light 1,300.00 300.00 300.00 DELETED 2,000.00 300.00 GreenwoOd Shores -- - ..-play EqUipment vVolleYball COurt Park Sign ~orth Lotus Lake Pa~ Park Sign Wfallfield/parking ConstrUction (in-house) Tennis COurt t-Play EqUipment 3,000.00 300.00 300.00 South Lotus Lake - ~- 300.00 1,000.00 20,000.00 5,000.00 . Park Sign --Ga te House -<- P Light ~iShing Dock (w/railings) Carver Beach - ----..:;: 300.00 1,000.00 1,000.00 1,300.00 .. vrire SWing Replacement ~ollard and Chain to Obstruct old ACcess ~andimere Hei~ ~occer Field ConstrUction (in-hoUse) ~otlot EqUipment 500.00 250.00 Chanhassen Estates Park - - 200.00 3,000.00 IAfpgrade Shelter ~assen Pond Pa~ Master Park Plan Development Park Development 500.00 J , .. 1,000.00 2,000.00 . . it , . . . 1987 Proposed Capital Improvement Program Page 2 Meadow Green Park urotlot Equipment (Big Swings) Tennis Courts 750.00 20,000.00 Herman Field Park Development Access Plan Development DELETED 3,500.00 Miscellaneous v.fables/Benches (20) Trail Development 7,000.00 DELETED $ 80,500.00 The Commission wished to note that park development has slacked in recent years. Due to housing starts and the increased interest (park development requests), the Commission feels that these pro- jects need to be addressed. The following is a list of projects that the Commission feels has priority. These were not included in the 1987 CIP Budget request, however as they are contingent upon events or the deve- lopment of plans. The Commission stated that future budget amendment requests may be made later in the year. -Lake Susan running track (pending the acquisition of addi- tional ~ acres) -Trail development {pending the completion of the trail plan and estimated costs of such a plan -Herman Field Access Development (pending the results of tOhe access plan) . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes December 2, 1986 Page 3 Sietsema said that it may not be appropriate to develop each type of park the same. She said that different neighborhoods have different personalities and needs. MCkay said he wants to know what is appropriate for each type of park. He said that standard criteria was needed to treat each park development request equal. Be said that he feels that staff has no long range planning when it comes to park development and just plays it by ear. Be said that since he has been on the Com- mission, it has only been the "squeaky wheel that gets the oil" and he resents the looseness in the way decisions are dealt with. Lynch said that although long range planning is needed, inflexa- bility tends to cause Waste. Be said that criteria was needed that would determine what the minimum size is for a parK to be considered for a ballfield, or what the minimum size for a park should oe, or how close to a highway is acceptable to develop park facilities. Boyt said that if such criteria is included in the Comprehensive Plan, the Commission ~ill be better equipt to make SQund deci- sions, which will be defendable to the City Council. She said cri ter.ia tha.t would state "a ten acre park is eligible for..." or "a three acre park is eligible for .... She said she would like to kno~ what is appropriate for each size park. X t ... Boyt said that the COlno. Plan should also identify where poten- tial parKS should be for long range planni~g. Capital Imorovement proaram BUdqet Sietsema said that the Commission had prepared a Capital Improve- ment Program in September and recommended its adoption in the. 1987 budget. She said that she was bringing it back to the Com- mission for reconSideration. Sietsema said that the proposed CIP BUdget identifies 525,000 for trail development and that perhaps this request Was premature as we do not know how much the total will be for trail development. The trail plan is currently underway and cost estimates have not yet been established. She said once the trail plan has been completed, the Commission will have to look at how it will be financed. She recommended taking the 525,000 ior trail develop- ment out of the <987 CIP BUdget. She noted that when the trail plan is completed the Commission could then go to the City Coun- cil with a bUdget amendment request. It Was stated that other items that are dependant on future eVents should also be taken out, such as the development of Lake Susan Park (which depends upon the BRA acquisition of an addi- tional a acres). . . . . .1 , I I I I I . II. .., I' I .e I I I I I I 'e I I I I I I I Ie Park and Recreation Commission Minutes December 2, 1986 Page 4 Rosenwald said that if this was done, he would suggest stating for the record that it is anticipated that the Commission will be asking for a budget amendment in 1987 upon the completion of the trail plan. This will let the Council know we are looking ahead and there will not be any suprises. Lynch suggested making a contigency list: -Lake Susan running track (pending the acquisition of addi- tional 8 acres) -trail development (pending the completion of the trail plan and estimated costs of such a plan) -Herman Field Access Development (pending the results of the access plan) Rosenwald moved to amend the original proposed 1987 Capital Improvement Plan Budget to delete the running track at Lake Susan ($1000), the trail development funds ($25,000), the Herman Field development ($5,000), and to add $3,500 for the development of an access plan for Herman Field. This brings the total request to $80,500. The motion '.vas seconded by Boyt and carried unanimously. McKay said he ~vould like to Know how much is in the Park buaget. He said that staff should b8 able to provide the Commission \vith t~e financial 5tatus and projections. ~cKay moved to request the balances for the 1987 Capital Fund, the 1987 es:imated Capital ~und income, and any earmarked :~nds that are a part oi the beginning balance, in order that the Com- ::1i8sion can enhance its recommendation for this fund. 'I'he motion was seconded by Boyt and carried unaniillously. Commissioner AODoi~tments Sietsema said the terms of office were to expire on Decemcer 31, 1986 for Boyt, Lynch, Rosenwald, and Robbins. She said that the Commission was to make a recommendation to the City Council as to reappoint or advertise the vacant positions. She said that she received a call from Robbins who said that he would not be interested in a reappoi~tment. Lynch, Soyt and Rosenwald all indicated they would li~e to be reappointed for another term. McKay moved to recommend the reappointment of Lyuch, Boyt, Rosen- ~ald and Roobins and the authorization to the advertisement Ear the vacant position of any who do not wish to continue. The Inotion was seconded by Robinson and carried unanimouSly. . . . ,j , I I I FUND: 410 - PARK ACQUISITION & DEVELOPMENT FUNCTION: CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT 1987 BUDGET . Commentary General Comment: Park fees (charges established on new construction) are receipted into this fund. All major park improvements become a budgeted expense of this fund (Note: To insure multi-year accountability for individual projects, a separate fund is typically established to account for the assets/liabilities of that project, i.e. Lake Ann Boat Access. In instances like the boat access, the City share of the project cost is "reserved" until final approvals are received. At time of receipt of federal/state dollars, the City share (budgeted amount) is "transferred" to the individual project fund. All of the revenues/ expenses associated with the project thereby become easier to monitor _ with final balances being "transferred" back to this fund). As such, this fund represents the msster fund reflecting current and future obligations for major park projects, as well as minor psrk improvements within our community. In previous years, the Council has authorized the expenditure of $35,000 for minor park projects. The Park Commission must submit a list of priority projects to the Council prior to January 1st of each yesr - such, when approved, becoming the neighborhood park improvement budget for that year. Again, major projects can be established during the course of the year paralleling the City's 5-year capital budget, availability of federal/state dollars or aa necessitated to parallel City street/sewer/etc. construction projects. Neighborhood Park Development .!2.ll .!.2.ll . Chapsrral Park (Playground Apparatus) North Lotus Lake Park (Grading) Western Hills (Walkway) Unallocated 1,200 15,000 2,500 35,000 . . . . . J J -81- I : II . . 410 410 410 410 410 410 410 410 410 410 410 410 . 410 410 410 410 . 3303 3399 3801 3807 3899 3999 4130 4299 4300 4599 4701 4799 4801 4802 4899 fUND #410 - PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT 1987 BUDGET REVENUE CharQes ~ Service Park Development fees TOTAL CHARGES fOR SERVICE ~ ! ~ Revenue Interest Donations TOTAL INTEREST & OTHER REVENUE TOTAL REVENUE EXPENDITURES: Materials! Supplies Supplies, Program TOTAL MATERIALS & SUPPLIES Contractual Services fees, Service TOTAL CONTRACTUAL SERVICES Capital Outlay Land or Building Improvement TOTAL CAPITAL OUTLAY Debt Payments Principal Interest TOTAL DEBT PAYMENTS 4999 TOTAL EXPENDITURES Revenue over (under) Expenditures Other increases(decreases): Transfer from (to) Lake Ann Ballfield lighting South lotus lake fund Balance forward Total increases (decreased): ~ ReQuired Reserve lake Ann Boat Access South Lotus lake Boat Access lake Ann Ballfield lighting fund Reserve Herman field future Debt Payments TOTAL RESERVE Total Resources over (under) Expenditure -82- ~ BUDGET 1986 55 .000 55,000 29,000 o 29,000 84,000 1,000 1,000 15,000 15,000 35.000 35 ,000 21,000 8.280 29,280 80,280 3,720 o o 362,980 65,000 49,000 38,000 100,000 35,000 76.000 363,000 3,700 ESTIMATED 1986 79,000 79,000 21,000 500 21,500 100,500 2,000 2,000 18.700 18,700 97,000 7,985 104,985 125,685 (25,185) 28,750 28,750 313 ,100 o 21,000 o 100,000 35,000 o 156,000 103,165 a I BUDGET 1981 60.000 60 , OO~ 11 ,000 11 ,001 11 ,DO' o o I 5,00. 5,000 35 .00. 35,000 . o ~. 40,000 31,0001 . I 21 ,000. 21,000 I 259,165. I ~. o t 100,000. J5 ,000 o 135,000 t 134,165. ..~ ... ..t:, ...:.. \. ., ,,1 # 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5.5317 (612) 937-1900 JI CITY OF CBAlfBASSElf 3 . MEMORANDUM DATE: November 25, 1986 TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator RE: Park and Recreation Needs Survey Attached please find the rough draft of the Park and Recreation Needs Survey. The City Council recently had the opportunity to review this rough draft when they were requested to authorize a temporary employee to assist in the survey process. The City Council agreed with the concept of the survey and felt that community input would be quite valuable in updating the Comprehensive Plan as well as preparing future Capital Improve- . ment Programs. They were concerned, however, that a typical method of distribution would not render the anticipated results. The Council suggested that residents be informed of the current park plan, where parks are located and what facilities they offer. The Council tabled action on the this item until the survey was.in final form. I have attached the minutes of that discussion for your review. ( It wasasked if the Commission could meet with groups in the com- munity to discuss these issues. The City has about 28 different homeowners associations and it was suggested that they be divided up and each Commissioner meet with 3-4 groups to hold discussions on the park and recreation needs in their area. This will enable the Commission to get first hand feedback from the community. At the end of these meetings a questionaire could be distributed, rendering a wider response. Last summer the Park and Recreation Commissioners in the City of Champlin did something very similar to this. They held meetings in the neighborhood parks and asked the residents in those areas what they wanted, liked and disliked regarding that park. Brett Heitkamp, Champlin Park and Recreation Coordinator, indicated that this was a very effective way to determine park needs in neighborhoods and said they received a number of positive respon- ses. . . . ( . ~I Park and Recreation Commission November 25, 1986 Page 2 It is the recommendation of this office to reduce the survey and to set up a schedule so that each Commissioner meets with 3-4 associations. Each would then be asked to report their findings back to the rest of the Commission and staff would tabulate the survey results. " , Chanhassen Park and Recreation Survey This questionnaire was developed by the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission to survey the needs and wants of Chanhassen residents in regard to park facilities and recreation programs. PLEASE COMPLETE THIS QUESTIONNAIRE AND HAIL OR DROP IT orr AT CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE. . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Considering the park activities that the members of 1/4 mile (3 blocks) your household most often participate in, at what point ____ 1/2 mile (6 blocks) would a neiQhborhood park be beyond walking diatance? 3/4 mile (9 blocks) ____ 1 mile (12 blocka Over 1 mile 2. At what point would you consider a community park beyond accessibility? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8 miles -----------------------------------~--- 2 miles 5 miles -------------------------------- 3. Please check the following ____ Open Skating Rink ____ lighted Ballfields ____ Hockey Rink facilities that would be unnecessary or excessive in a neiQhborhood park. ---- Hulti-Purpose Bldg. Restrooms ____ Open, Grassy rield _ Backstop ____ Play Equipment _ lighted Court/Rink ____ Open Air Shelter Tennis Court ____ Improved Ballfield -- ------------... - ---------------------------------- 48. Is there a city park located close enough to your home that your household would identify it as your "neighborhood park"? ____ yes no b. If yes, identify the park by name or location. c. What changes could be made to thia park to better serve the needs of your household? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sa. Would your' household use trails in Chanhassen? ----yes ____no If so, which means of travel? Number your top three choices in order of how often you do each activity. Walk ____ Jog ____ Bicycle CC-Ski Horseback Roller Skate Snowmobile Other . b. Where would trails for most of the above activities be best located? ---- Adjacent to streets ____ Within the boulevard along streets ____ Along lot lines, not streets d. Would you be willing to pay higher taxes for a city-wide trail system? _____ yes I f so, how much p~r year? _____ $50-100 _____$100-150 $150-200 $200-250 no ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Over $250 6. How often would your household use each of the following facilities if they were located in Chanhassen? Please rank accordingly: 1 = never 2 = 1-5 times a year , = once a month 4 = once a week S = daily ( I Adult Softball rields Youth Baseball rields Adult Baseball rields Tennis Courts football Helds Soccer Helda Open Ice SkatinQ Rink Outdoor Hockey .Rink Indoor Ice Rink PlaYQrOund Equipment Indoor Volleyball Sand Court VolleYball Nature Study SlidinQ Hill Grassy, Open Space Picnic Area SwimminQ Beach Pedestrian Trails Snowmobile Trails Cross Ctry Ski Trail C-ymnasium :- - 112 :5 4 5 I I 1 1 1 1 1 , 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 '-+ H::H . Pack and Recreation Survey Page 2 . 8. If you regularly drive outside of Chanhassen for recreational purposes, (more than 6 times per year), what activities do you seek? Which programs would you participate in if they were offered in Chanhassen? Participate Outside City Now Would Participate if Offered Here Acti vity . Picnicking Ice Skating Roller Skating Swinning Cross Country Skiing Bicycle Trails Youth Karate Adult Karate Childrens Dance Adult Aerobics Youth Gymnastics Adult Basketball Youth Basketball Tennis (league or lessons) Hens Softball Womens Softball Co-Rec Softball Adult Touch football Youth Soccer Adult Soccer Youth Hockey Adult Hockey Adult Volley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9a. 00 you think the City of Chanhassen should develop an indoor recreational community center? ____ yes no b. If so, how much of a tax increase would you be willing to assume to build such a facility? ---- $50-100 $100-150 $150-200 $200-250 $250-300 Over $300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10. Where should the emphasis of improvements to the City park system be placed? Rank your choices with 1 having the most emphasis. ---- Organized recreation programs (possibly include more activities, age groups, participants) ____ Acquiring additional park land ---- Physical improvements in parks to enable or enhance specific activities (ballfields, picnic areas) _ Improvement and/or enlargement of trails system _ Crooming, maintenance, and landscaping of parks ____ Park supervision and police surveillance Other ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11. Please indicate the catagories which represent the ages of the members of your household. Put an (M) in the appropriate space each male and an (f) for each female. 0-5 6 - 11 12 - 17 18 - 29 JO - 44 45 - 60 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 61 + 12a. Because recreation needs may vary from neighborhood to neighborhood, it is necessary to know what area of the City you live in. Please fill in your street address excluding the last two numbers. (Example: 6XX Coulter Drive) xx '- b. 00 you own or rent your residence? Own Rent ~ . 0', .}..~ 1-' ~~"~iO.. ,", (, C' City Council Meeting - November 3, 1986 Mayor Hamilton moved, Councilman Geving seconded to table this item until such time as the HRA has had time to review their budget arxi report back on what their financial schedule is. All voted in favor of tabling the item and motion carried. Councilman Geving: We can bring this back then December 1st. , CONSENT AGENDA: -* D. APPROVAL OF TEMPORARY EMPLOYMENT TO PROCESS PARK AND RECREATION NEEDS -- SURVEY. Mayor Hamilton: I don't disagree with the theory and concept of doing this but I'm not sure what it is going to tell us basEd on the fOIm it is in now. Lori Sietsema: The fOIm is a rough draft. The Commission hasn't seen it. Mayor Hamilton: One thing, there isn't any explanation what the current park plan concept is or has been for the past 15-20 years. Along with this ,if we are asking people to comment on parks, you are probably going to be asking a lot of people who are fairly new residents and they don't know where the parks are in all cases. It seems like you ought to have an area map showing where the parks are, each one delineated 50 everybody knows how many parks we already have. Councilwoman Watson: Arxi what facilities we have at those parks. I have fourxi in the last few days that people don't know, they haven't been to the parks. Maybe it is 1/2 mile or 1/4 mile away from their home, they don't really know what is there. Don Ashworth: Are you saying that the proposed park or are you saying then what is available or about what is planned? .( Councilwoman Watson: If there is active play area there. If there is playgrourD equipment for small children at this park. I don't think these people even know for instance from Olaparral, what is over at Meadowgreen Park. They haven't been there. They don't know if there is playgrourD equipment for a 5 year old or baseball or softball or even what is available to them at that park. They honestly don't know. Mayor Hamilton: The difficulty in doing something like this is our concept has been to have neighborhood parks where we can put them into certain large neighborhooe area and to have one ci ty park which Lake Ann Park serves the entire city for the needs arxi services that that has to offer. Somebody that is new to the community isn't going to know that and they may think that their are3 is park deficient because they have a 3 or 4 year old that doesn't have a park right next door to their house. In fact it seems to me that if you have 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 up to what age, your yard serves as a park for those kids. That is where you play is in your own yard unti 1 you are old enough to get to the school playgroum or to go unsupervised to another location away from ho:ne so I guess that theory and philosophy can be expressed to the people who are going to be looking at this am I did feel that sane of the things were kim 12 , -( ~ . " / .,- ~ ~ v .. r .. r . " ( .( -. .~,.. .l.vi City Council Meeting - November 3, 1986 of negative or at least they seemed to be that way to me. I guess also would people know what a neighborhood park is. Are people going to understam what a neighborhood park means? I don't know that. I have no idea if people will know what a neighborhood park is. If people haven't been involved in the community, I would suspect probably every person who reads this is going to say, a neighborhood park? Each one is going to have their own idea of what a neighborhood park ought to be or maybe actually is. Community park also, we're talking about neighborhood park, community park without really knowing what each one is. At community park you should spell it out that there is swimming, tennis, softball, soccor, baseball, all these things built that is what we have at a community park. It seems like a rather long form. I guess my experience has been when you sem out a questionnaire out like this if you get 1% of them back you will be really lucky and I'm not sure that 1% is going to tell us anything. Don Ashworth: '!his is what I had discussed with Lori. I:8le may remember this very well. The questionnaire sent out regarding Senior Citizens am it came back and it was just totally negative. It showerl that Chanhassen has absolutely no neerl for senior citizen housing of any kim am those involverl in city government you know very well that there is a need here but the very small percentage that responderl am I suggesterl to Lori potentially if the Commission wants to see this go into newspapers or send out, we should maybe supplement that or maybe even just have the total survey be done as a telephone survey. If you remember that is what we did with the marketing study regarding the grocery store facilities, regional facilities within the comnunity. Councilwoman watson: '!hen explanations could be made at the same time. Don Ashworth: The responses were far more accurate. Mayor Hamilton: I guess one question on here that kind of bothered me was 9(a) am (b) asking how much tax burden a resident would be willing to accept if an indoor recreational center were built. I think we are really asking for trouble there. This is merely a concept stage am already we are talking about assessing tax dollars. I realize this is just a questionnaire but often times people read more into a questionnaire then what you are really lookiD3 for. Suddenly they are going to say we're going to be chargerl the top number $31313.1313 a year for a community center. I'm all in favor of a community center. Don't misumerstand me. I really want to get one but I'm not convincerl that that is what we are going to do to get one charging $21313.00- $31313 .1313 a household. I don't know that. Lori Sietsema: I guess the night they deciderl a survey was what the Commission wanted to do was the same night that Brad Johnson came and explainerl his whole deal am that was the only means by which he explained paying for this facility and they weren't very sure that anyone was going to want to pay for this out of their taxes ei ther but they knew if they asked do you think the city should develop a recreation center everybody would put yes unless they knew they had to pay for it am if they still did, they wanted to know how much they would be willing to pay for it. If everybody said no then knowing that they had to pay for it, then. 13 . _toa I' t ~ ~ ( ( ,( City Council Meeting - November 3, 1986 Couocilman Horn: '!he problem with that is unless you present to them what it er is they are going to get wi th a communi ty center, they aren't going to know I what to do. Typically the way these things are done, if you have several public meetings where you go and explain what our community center is going to have in it and you sell the program then you have the referendum to determine all that but to come out here before they get any information about what it is going to do for them, I don't know it is going to get the information you are lookil'XJ for. I think it is also important too when you have a questionnaire to have it generated by people who are professional in getting the kind of information you want from a questionnaire because if you don't know how to ask the questions right, and I'm not saying that any of us do but there are people who know how to word questionnaires to get the right responses, you're not going to get the results that you are looking for. Mayor Hamilton: '!he other questions I had was dealing with the trail system. We have talked about a trail system in this communi ty for a long time and we have partial trails here am there. Again, to ask people about a trail system if they agree, let's put a trail around every lake. Well, the realities of it is that you can't am if you ask if you want it. Well, sure we want it. Let's get it going. '!hen we'll have to turn around and say you can't have it because there is no way we can do it. You have private property owners right down to the water on several lakes. You're not going to go and buy that property. They wouldn't sell it to you anyway. Again, do you want trails on the streets or do you want trails off the street? I guess these are things that I was having trouble with because again, I'm not OFPOsed to it but in reality I don't think we are asking the right questions like what Clark is saying. They need to have some information about what we are looking for and then to respond to the question. Perhaps on their answers it would be better am more useful to us because on the trail system, if you ask almost anybody in this town if you would like to have a trail system, abSOlutely, we would love it. What kim of a trail system? On the streets, aroum the lakes, through the town somehow. In a lot of cases we are already saying, as you know, we just can't make good trails 2/3 of the way aroum Lake Ann. 4{ Councilman Geving: '!hen it's a dead end. CUl-de-sac it and turn around and cane back. Mayor Hamilton: I guess I'm afriad we might be asking for trouble then we are going to benefit from the questionnaire. That's not to say that it is not a good idea. I certainly see what they are trying to accomplish but I'm not sure they are goi1l3 about it the right way. Councilman Horn: Would the people in St. '!homas assist in developing the questionnaire? Lori Sietsema: Yes. '!hat would probably take more time then 50 hours but she imicated that there were people there that would know more about writing the questions too and could probably assist us in that. Councilman Horn: I have been very impreSSed with the people at St. Thomas. I think if they have that type of service available that you would do well to avail yourself of it. I think the other thing is, the question you ask then * 14 . . . ~- t ~ ~ . ~ ;. ( ( a! ..~..... .,_ .iijib City Council Meeting - November 3, 1986 is do we want a survey before we have information on such. Maybe they could help us with that answer too. Couocilwoman Watson: Because building trails is only the beginning. '!hey have to be maintained and maintenance of trails is a very expensive proposition. By the time you keep them mowed and cleared and the issue of the fact that we can't possibly police all of these trails. There is always going to be the certain risk factor on the trail system that runs through that we really have no way of pOlicing. I think it is good idea and I think PeOple need to be asked. Mayor Hamilton: But they need to know what is there first. '!hey need to know what we have. Councilwoman Watson: Yes, because there are PeOple in Chaparral who do not Iknow what is at Meadowgreen Park. Mayor Hamil ton: '!here are an awful lot of PeOple in this town that don't know what is at Lake Ann. They have never been there. Councilwoman Watson: '!hey need to know whether what they think they want isn't already availble, they just don't know that it is there or whether we really aren't meeting the needs. '!he kinds of parks they want really don't exist in this city or they are too far away. Mayor Hamil ton: Even if you asked the question do you prefer neighborhood parks or community parks and there was 100% response back that they would rather have neighborhood parks. Are we going to be able to change at this point? Are we going to sell Lake Ann Park? I'm not willing to do that. That has been there and is something that we have worked on to develop and continue to grow with and addoo more land to it a few years ago. I don't think that is sanething we want to change. Lori Sietsema: ~, I don't think it is the Commission either so much communi ty versus neighborhood they just wanted to know how many or how frequent neighborhood parks should exist. Councilman Horn: I think you have given us a trend of where we should head. Not that we can change what we already have but you can tell us whether we want to buy some large tracts for more central type parks or whether they want them develoPed in terms of neighborhood parks. - Don Ashworth: Another possibility potentially exists, you have a number of neighborhood associations and some areas where you don't have associations, to call a public meeting for that area, notify everyone. With the number of park commissioners you have, you can literally divide up each of the neighborhoods that you have am someone from that group meet with each neighborhood. Present what the City has available. Describe what it is we are doing and ask them what would you like to see in your neighborhood. At least that way you get down into a specific neighborhood rather then generalizoo question about how far do I walk. . 15 . . "; ":1 -.I "'.. 0 . . ~ I -b C~ ~ , ( . . ( (.. City Council Meeting - November 3, 1986 Councilwoman Watson: We will know just how interested people are by how they respond. -I Don Ashworth: '!here is no way that the people in let's say Near Mountain developnent even know that you have a good size park in that area. We are in fact in the process of letting bids and improving there. A number of them don't even realize there is a park literally in their backdoor and it might be well to meet with those people and to show them what is on the board, what is proposed to be put in this year because we're talking about grading it this year. Get their input as to what else they would like to have. Mayor Hamil ton: It seems as part of the information that we have to get out, not only about the parks in the city but if you look at the Arboretum, that is really a park. How many acres is that? Al Klingelhutz: 600. Mayor Hamilton: How many acres is the Regional Park? Councilman Geving: 300. Mayor Hamilton: How many acres in the Carver Park Reserve? '!bose are all within a very short distance. Those are three huge parks right within this Chanhassen District and that is all a part of the parks that people could use and I think that people have to be aware of that too. ~ Councilman Horn: I like the idea of having the Park Commissioners go to the neighborhood. Councilwoman Watson: I do too. It keeps the Commission more in touch with the people. Councilman Geving: Here is what I was thinking. I think if we are going to do this, we've got to do it right or you are not going to get the type of response that we are looking for. I'm talking about a nice letter signed either by the Mayor or the Chairman of the Park and Recreation Commission identifying what we are trying to do, wi th this survey. Maybe on the back page there would be a map of the City of Chanhassen showing existings parks and what is in those parks. Showing the swings and ball diamonds and so forth and a very good mechanism for returning these responses back to us. I don't know how you do that but one thing was suggested here. I was thinking of the Park Commissioner's themselves who are very well known in their own neighborhood areas I'm sure. '!heir names could be listed along with their telephone numbers in this document and enl ist the aid of the homeowners groups because they are probably the most active groups we have in this City to get things done. I was thinking that if St. Thomas has this capability, we ought to use it and originally when I looked at this I thought what ever happened to the good old volunteer spirit. That is basically what we always did with Park and Rec and there are people around who can do these things but probably not as professionally or not as well as someone who has done this before so I don't mind the $500.00 we are talking about spend ing for the survey but we've got to do it right or you're not going to get the responses. You're just not going . 16 . .- I I oJ.; ~\ \L '\ . I":' . it . . ( ,. { '") () d ~VJ.j.. City Council Meeting - November 3, 1986 to get people to drive into City Hall and drop off this response. They won't do it so we've got to do that part right. Councilman Horn: I would suggest this survey be something that they hand out at the neighborhood meetings am do it that evening. Councilman Geving: That's even better. A one for one basis is the only way you are going to get a true response. A fairly good size sampling of the City but let's do it right. Like I say with cover letter, a map showing the parks, the concept that Tom was talking about that we have for the park, what is a neighborhood park, what is a city park and so forth. What I would do, some of the things that Tom mentioned, I think question no. 3 for example, please check the following facilities that would be unnecessary or excessive in a neighborhood park. To me that is very negative. I couldn't sell anything if I tried to sell a statement like that. I would turn it around and say please check the following facilities that you would like to have in the neighborhood park and then go on to list them. picnic benches, soccor fields, etc. (he of the things I would like to see us do more of in all of our parks is just set aside areas for nature. There is nothing wrong with having an acre of just grass am bugs am whatever else grows in that natural grassy area or that we could promote an area that is maybe an acre or two of just plain woods. There is nothing wrong with saving an acre of woods so that kids can go in am fim tree frogs and all the other creatures that might inhabit that area. We don't do enough of that I don't think as a ci ty to preserve those areas so I think those are the kind of questions I would put in here. Open nature areas for example would be one of the al ternates that I would put in there. As far as the rest of the survey is concerned, I too would agree with the comments that were made. I would pull out these dollar figures. Item 5(c). Would you be willing to pay higher taxes for a city-wide trail system. That is crazy. This is not the kim of information we want at this time. That will come later on but don't ask if they are willing to pay the $50.00 or $250.00 a year for trails. Pull that kim of stuff out. That is extremely negative. Councilwoman Watson: In a referendum... Councilman Geving: That's what I'm saying over here on 9 for example. Here you would say do you think the City of Chanhassen should develop an indoor recreational communi ty center? Yes or no. Should this be a referemum issue? It obviously should be I think and give them a chance to say yes or no and drop the dollars. We're not interestErl in that. I have my own thoughts about what should be included in some of these lists of things and 1 will give those to you Lori ~ut I think if we do this right it can be done properly am we will get the kind of response we are looking for. This is probably a fairly good draft am that is where we're at but I believe a letter from the Mayor with the parks shown on a map so they can associate their own area with the Lotus Park or close park that would be very convenient. I have no other comments Mr. Mayor. I did want to say just this. I know you have all had a chance to read my comments to the Park and Rec Commission. I won't say anymore about it. I just felt it was necessary to meet with them that night am I won't say anymore about that. I thought it went over very goed am I think we are a pretty good team right now working together. 17 .' " 'I ~'''-I ~v'~ -, . . ., ~ -- 0... i C\ ~ 1 ;r ( ( .- { City Council Meeting - November 3, 1986 Councilwoman Watson: Lori mentioned that Todd has had some experience in survey work too. He is here and available to us. I don't know what kind of survey work he has done. Mayor Hamilton moved, Councilwoman Watson seconded to table this item until the City Manager and Lori Sietsema can get together to revise some of the questions and bring it back to the City Council. All voted in favor of tabling the issue and motion carried. . I Don Ashworth: We will summarize your comments that the Council has given and bring it back hopefully for you at the next meeting. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Hamil ton: 'n1e next item was I was going to talk about Art Partridge. I guess most of you know that he apparently is going to sue the City over the . neighbor's problem. I don't know what else we can do to accommodate him other then, I've been up there and I talked to his neighbors and my goodness, it certainly is as nice a looking yard as anybody who lives around me or anyone else so I don't see the problem but Art is still furious and it seems like more of a neighbor dispute then anything else. Councilman Geving: Excuse me Mr. Mayor. Do we have an official letter or something from Art on this? I'm not familiar with the situation. Councilwoman Watson: Did you not receive a letter from him at one point? I did. ~ Councilman Geving: It was some time ago. Councilwoman Watson: Yes, it was some time ago. Mayor Hamilton: It was this summer, June or July. He didn't say anything for a while. Don and I went up there one day and their yard wasn't a mess at all. There wasn't anything laying around. Councilman Geving: So what is his complaint against the City? '!hat we're not doing anything about it? Councilwoman Watson: 'n1at we have an Ordinance and we aren't following our Ordinance. That we ignored the issue. That we have not responded. I had a most unpleasant conversation in regard to this on Saturday. I'asked Don to get together ~or me every correspondence that has Occurred since the first time this issue came to us. Don Ashworth: I will make that available to anyone else who would like a copy of it. Councilwoman Watson: I felt I needed to see this all at one place at one time because I felt reasonably comfortable. I realize there is one letter from our City Attorney in here that I'm sure Roger and everyone else wishes we could take back. It is a very poorly written letter. One easily taken apart which ~ 18 .