1986 06 03 Agenda
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AGENDA
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
TUESDAY, JUNE 3, 1986, 7:00 P.M.
CHANHASSEN MUNICIPAL BUILDING, 690 COULTER DRIVE
Note: The Commission will meet at 7:00 p.m. at City Hall before
the park inspection of Lake Ann Park.
1. Call to order.
2. Minutes
Old Business
$. Presentation on Park and Recreation finances, Don Ashworth.
~. Chaparral Homeowners proposal to purchase additional totlot
equipment for Meadow Green Park.
~. Chanhassen Hills final site plan review.
6. Updates:
# Chanhassen Vista
J July 4th
I Goose population control program
New Business
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Red Cedar Point Homeowners request for a pedestrian trailway
along Minnewashta Parkway.
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Request to allow "group reserved camping" in non-camping
areas at Minnewashta Regional Park.
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Lake Ann Park Expansion, authorization of early payoff.
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Ballfield lighting project, authorization to proceed with
development of plans and specification.
11. Park and Recreation Commission presentations.
Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes
May 6, 1986
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A regular meeting of the Park and Recreation Commission was
called to order by acting Chairman McKay at 7:40 p.m. Members
present were Sue Boyt, Jim Mady, Curt Robinson, and Wallace
Mckay.
MINUTES
Boyt made a motion to recommend the approval of the minutes of
April 1st and 5th as prepared. The motion, seconded by Mady, was
approved unanimously.
LAKE PARK EXPANSION MASTER PLAN REVIEW
Mark Koegler was present to the discuss the proposed plan for the
Lake Ann Park Expansion area. He said that he was directed to
develop a site plan and grading plan for this area so that the
City would be prepared to move ahead should funding become
available. He said that a sketch plan for the park expansion
area has been submitted and updated for grant proposals in the
past. He found, however, that the sketch plan is not quite as
accurate as the contour lines shown did not coincide with the
current information. The new plan accurately shows that there is
about 100' less on the new plan than originally shown.
Koegler said that the plan that he was presenting would be the
first of three development phases. He explained that the the plan
included a ballfield, soccer field and parking as identified on
the sketch plan. He said that he would need direction as to how
to proceed if the Commission wished to make changes. For
instance, how much parking does the Commission feel will be
necessary looking at the overall picture.
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Robinson asked if a large amount of grading was necessary for
this plan. Koegler said that the land is presently rolling farm
land and would require extensive grading for ballfields. To give
the Commission an idea of the amount of grading, Koegler said
that the existing ballfield area was nearly identical to the
undeveloped area.
McKay asked if the existing parking areas were expected to serve
the proposed ballfields. Koegler said that although this plan
included parking to serve this area, it was necessary to identify
how much parking the Commission felt was necessary to serve this
area.
Robinson asked if there could be parking along the soccer field.
Mady asked if there could be parking along the road on the east side.
Koegler said that the area along the south side of the plan was
not as spacious as originally determined and therefore it would .
be difficult to put parking in there with the soccer field. He
said that if the soccer field was made smaller it may be
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Park and Recreation Minutes
May 6, 1986
Page 2
possible. Sietsema said that in order to be consistent with
the existing parking areas within the park, parking should be
limited to parking lots and not along the roads.
Sietsema said that age limitations are incurred if the soccer
field is made smaller. Under 16 and Under 19 soccer leagues can
only play on regulation size soccer fields. She said that the
original intent of including a soccer field in this plan was to
provide a field large enough for all ages to use. Mady indicated
that he felt it important to keep the soccer field at least 120 x
60 yards. Koegler said that this could probably be done in the
area shown.
Koegler said that a specific number of parking spaces should be
identified. Mady said that with two games per night on one
field, at least 60 spaces would be needed to keep people from
parking on the grass. McKay asked how the cost of 60 parking
spaces compared to 40. Koegler indicated that the additional
cost would depend on how it was done. The first phase would
include grading and aggregate, paving being during a future
phase. He said that, done like this, 60 spaces would not be
substantially more than 40.
Robinson said that the City needs a Little League field and that
it should be included in one of the phases. Mady said that it
makes sense to convert existing field #3 to a Little League field
as it is small, and put in three new softball fields. Sietsema
indicated that a Little League field is small and cannot be used
for adult playas the fences and distance between bases is con-
siderably shorter than softball fields.
Robinson made a motion to direct staff to change the presented
plan to include 60 parking spaces and to make the soccer field as
large as space will allow. The motion was seconded by Boyt and
carried unanimously.
Chanhassen vista Sketch Plan Review
Sietsema said that the Chanhassen vista sketch plan had recently
gone before the City Council for review. She said that the Com-
mission's recommendation to acquire the land around the pond to
the ridge line was taken to the Council at that time.
Sietsema explained that staff was proposing that the City acquire
the area around the pond to the 952 contqur line and a restric-
tive easement to the ridgeline. Staff felt that this would
achieve the Commission's purpose of preserving the ridgeline
without eliminating all of the lots along that ridge. She said
the Commission was being asked to consider this proposal before
the preliminary plat process. The Commission asked if this ease-
ment would enforce the preservation of the ridgeline in its
Park and Recreation Commission Minutes
May 6, 1986
Page 3
natural state. Sietsema said that if the Commission was in favor
of this proposal they could recommend any restrictions they
deemed necessary to achieve their purpose.
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Mady indicated that he would like to maintain the original recom-
mendation of acquisition to the ridgeline. Sietsema said that if
that was the Commission's position an appraisal would be needed
to determine the value of the property. She said that con-
sidering the number of lots lost, the cost of this property could
very well exceed the park dedication fees. Mady said he would
rather authorize an appraisal and determine at that time whether
the property was worth it.
The Commission discussed this proposal further. McKay was con-
cerned that the Commission was asking for more in this develop-
ment than in past plans reviewed and felt that consistency should
be kept in mind. Boyt said that the developer planned to build
houses with walkout basements along the ridge and felt this would
not maintain the park look.
Mady moved to reaffirm the original recommendation of AprilS,
1986 to acquire the land around the pond to the natural ridge-
line, and to authorize staff to proceed with an appraisal of
such.
Bill Boyt asked to address the Commission on this item. He said .
that he was impressed that the Commission took the time to visit
the site to get a first hand look at it. He asked the Commission
to consider requesting a four foot easement along the streets
and conservation easements along the outlots to be used for
trails.
McKay indicated that it was vital for the Commission to stay with
their recommendation as this would be consistent. He added that
the Commission did not want to get carried away with their
requests, lest they loose credibility.
Boyt seconded the motion, which carried unanimously.
CHAPARRAL HOMEOWNERS REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL TOT LOT EQUIPMENT AT
MEADOW GREEN PARK: Sietsema said the Commission had reviewed the
Chaparral Homeowners request to upgrade the totlot at Meadow
Green Park. At that time the Commission directed staff to
research timeframes and costs for a new surface and equipment.
Sietsema explained that pea gravel is the optimal type of play
surface available, although it is somewhat more expensive. She
said the area could be filled this summer if staff is directed to
do so. She said she had discussed this item with Park
Superintendent, Dale Gregory, who suggested that the filled area
be enlarged enough to accommodate any future play equipment addi- .
tions. Therefore, the Commission may want to decide at this time
what additions will be made in the future.
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Park and Recreation Commission Minutes
May 6, 1986
Page 4
Sietsema said that the staff report outlined a timeframe for the
installation of the pea gravel and possible additional equipment.
She suggested that the play surface be installed this year for
$1300, swings for older children in 1987 for $750, and an addi-
tional play module in 1988 for $2,180. This would meet the
requests the homeowners had.
Boyt asked if the existing equipment needed to be moved for
safety purposes as suggested. Sietsema said as long as any new
equipment was installed away from the ballfield area, there did
not appear to be a safety threat.
Mady suggested cutting a year off the recommended timeframe by
putting in the play surface and the big swings this year and
install the new module next year.
McKay stated that we should look at an overall tot1ot plan. He
said he did not like the squeaky wheel syndrome.
Robinson moved to replace the play surface with pea gravel and
install big swings in 1986 and consider any additional equipment
in 1987. The motion was seconded by Boyt and carried
unanimously.
McKay asked staff to put an overall tot1ot plan on a future
agenda for discussion.
FIRE DEPARTMENT REQUEST: Sietsema said that the Chanhassen Fire
Department was requesting the use of all three ba11fie1ds at Lake
Ann Park for their annual softball tournament. The request
included waiving the park fees for the weekend as well. Sietsema
stated that the Fire Department has held their tournament for a
number of years and were very responsible.
Robinson moved to recommend approval of the Chanhassen Fire
Department request to use the ba11fie1ds at Lake Ann Park and to
waive park fees. The motion was seconded by Mady and carried
unanimously.
PHEASANT HILL SKETCH PLAN REVIEW: Sietsema said the Pheasant
Hill development lies within the edge of the Herman Field and
Minnetonka West Junior High service area. She said it also lies
south of the MUSA line, which the Comprehensive Plan considers a
low priority area for park development.
Sietsema said that considering the size of the development, that
it is considered a low priority area, and is located within the
service area of existing parks, she was recommending that park
dedication fees be accepted in lieu of park land.
Mady made a motion to recommend accepting park dedication fees
in lieu of park land from the Pheasant Hills 3rd Addition. The
motion was seconded by Robinson and carried unanimously.
Park and Recreation Commission Minutes
May 6, 1986
Page 5
MISCELLANEOUS: The Commission requested that staff review the
park financial status and how the budget process works.
MaKay asked staff to check if the open meeting law applied to the
Park and Recreation Commission.
Robinson moved to adjourn the meeting at 9:45 p.m. The motion
was seconded by Boyt and carried unanimously.
Prepared by: Lori Sietsema
Park and Recreation Coordinator
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Park and Recreation Commission
Public Hearing on Goose Population Control
Minutes
May 27, 1986
Chairman Lynch called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. All of
the Commissioners were present.
Lynch began by saying that City staff, in response to citizen's
complaints are concerned about the increasing number of geese in
Chanhassen parks and beaches. He said that the goose population
has become a health problem as well as a maintenance problem. He
indicated that Dr. James Cooper was present to discuss the pro-
posed goose population maintenance program.
Lynch reminded the audience that the Park and Recreation Com-
mission is an advisory body to the City Council. He said that
the Commission would hear the public's comments, review them and
the program presented, and make a recommendation to the Council.
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Dr. Cooper said Canada Geese are a new phenomina in cities. They
are a native species of Minnesota that disappeared during the
depression and declined drastically during early market hunting
days. In the mid 50's there were programs that were developed by
private individuals as well as state and federal agencies to
bring the Canada Goose back. Birds were re-introduced in
numerous areas throughout the state as well as in the Twin
Cities.
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Since the mid 50's there have been releases through much of the
Twin Cities including state parks, park reserves, public parks,
and private land. In the early 70's the number of Canada Geese
numbered about 1000 birds located in some 14 different sites,
mainly around these release sites. Since that date the popula-
tion in the metro area has grown to be 10,000 birds. It was
never anticipated that this species would do so well, since it
had been lost during settlement days. But we now know that the
Canada Goose has well adapted to our metropolitan areas. It is
able to tolerate disturbance, it utilizes our shorelines for both
adult food as well as for juvenile food during the brooding
period. It finds nesting sites in among the city ponds, lakes
and wetlands and is very successful in nesting. The only predi-
tor here that takes any eggs to speak of is the raccoon, who is a
relative ineffective preditor on a bird as large as the Canada
Goose. Because hunting is not allowed through much of the metro
area, the bird has a very high survival rate. The adults have an
average of 90% survival from year to year and immatures approxi-
mately 75%. Population with the productivity base that the Twin
Cities geese have can sustain over a 50% mortality on annual
basis without declining. Canada Geese have been growing and con-
tinue to grow to approximately 30% per year. This means that
communities that have particularily large expanses of parks along
with wetlands near these release sites, such as Carver Park
Reserve, have found increasing numbers of Canada Geese.
Park and Recreation Commission
Public Hearing Minutes
May 27, 1986
Page 3
adequate nesting areas and brood rearing sites. Once you have
your population down the costs involved should be somewhat less
than what you currently will incurr to get this population under
control. I am proposing a four year plan. We are unable to get
the population down any quicker than that.
Lynch asked how long programs at other sites have been in
existence. Cooper said we were in the fourth year with Min-
neapolis, third with Golden Valley, second year with the airport,
and the second year with New Brighten. Lynch asked if he felt
that they have had adequate success at those locations. Cooper
said we have, but not as effective as we could be because of the
adult return. The translocation of birds to Oklahoma is not as
effective as we would like it. 75-80% of birds stay in Oklahoma,
but some do find their way back home.
Lynch asked if the goose populations level out at some natural
density level and if Dr. Cooper had a target density. Cooper
said that geese will breed in colonial density if there is no
predation. Lake of the Isles is a prime example where in 1981
geese populations were over 1000 birds. Nesting on the islands
were about 50 nests on one acre, and data gathered indicates that
nesting density could be four times that. This year there are
only 14 nests out there so the goal of eight breeding pair is
getting closer.' As far as natural nesting density, there pro-
bably is one but is likely to be much higher than what people
will tolerate. Cooper indicated that the second part of the
question is difficult because toleration levels vary with each
individual. The decision of how many geese you would like to
maintain in these areas is a local decision. Lynch described the
park areas involved and asked what other cities in comparable
situations are doing. Cooper said that at Lake of the Isles the
target would be 100 birds in August and September. In fall there
are migrants moving -back and forth and some mixing so it is dif-
ficult to keep fall numbers down to target level. 100 birds was
felt to be enough birds for people to enjoy, yet low enough num-
bers so that droppings on bike paths were tolerable. The numbers
that Chanhassen wants to look at would probably be below that
figure. I would suspect that there are other populations of
Canada geese in Chanhassen other than the ones that are causing
your problems, so you are not completely removing geese from the
City or denying people an opportunity to see them. You may want
to opt to go with something like we have in Brookview Golf Course
in Golden Valley which is a zero population on the golf course.
Other areas of Golden Valley are being left where populations
that were not associated with the golf course so that there would
be geese in the City.
Lynch explained that Chanhassen has three basic types of water in
Chanhassen; residential areas, active parks and passive parks
with low residential abuttment and little activity. He said that
he was quite certain that the City would .
in some areas of the City but n t . l~ke to have the geese
, 0 ~n areas such as beaches and
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Park and Recreation Commission
Public Hearing Minutes
May 27, 1986
Page 5
from the droppings of pidgeons, parrots or other birds. There
was one case last year on Lake Minnetonka where a gentleman who
was operating a rotary mower where geese are known to gather.
The droppings were drawn into the mower and the disease was
contacted inhaling the dust of the goose droppings. It is not a
major health hazard as we have had one case in the last 10 years,
however it is real. Someone mowing through these droppings with
the wind blowing has the potential to contact it.
Lynch asked if the the goose droppings had an affect on the water
quality. Cooper said that the goose droppings are a source of
nitrogenous waste and is readily soluble in the water. However,
studies done on droppings indicate that the amount of nitrogen
comming from that source was minute compared to the amount coming
in from lawns being fertilized. It is not a major source of
nutients to a lake, but it is a nuisance on a beach. It is not a
health hazard accept when dry and inhaled. Rosenwald asked what
effect there was on children playing in the sand where droppings
are. Cooper said it is not the kind of thing that will not hurt
them, in fact, even if they ate it the acid in the stomach would
neutralize or kill the bacteria.
Boyt said that she had recently visited Lake Ann Park and had not
seen many geese there. Cooper said that frequently the popula-
tions reach there peak about the time the adults go flightless
when they seek 'out these large open water sites. An example of
this is on Long Lake in New Brighten where there are no goose
nests, yet we removed over 250 geese off of Long Lake in mid-June
of last year. These birds are walking overland seeking the large
open bodies of water. What very likely is happening is that the
geese are nesting at Lake Lucy and then coming over to Lake Ann
once they start molting.
Sietsema asked D~. Cooper to discuss other means of goose popu-
lation control that have been tried and there effectivity, such as;
swan and owl decoys, stocking live swans, ultra sonic devices,
carbide canons, fencing, flags, scarecrows, etc. Cooper said
that swan decoys will work if the geese have a choice, if they do
not have a choice they will test limits and figure out what is
safe and what is not safe. When the decoy does not move then
they forget about it. So decoys have worked in cases where there
was an equally attractive site nearby. Scare techniques, such as
carbide canons, flags, and scarecrows, do not work effectively
without reinforcement. The reinforcement has to be shell
crackers shot over the birds' heads at close range or large
explosions. Most scare techniques are very temporary. Live swans
will work, the only swan readily available is the Mute Swan,
however they are very aggressive birds. In fact, a Mute Swan was
responsible for the death of fisherman in Ohio. Another fact to
consider with the swan is keeping them in captivity and rounding
them up and housing them in the winter. Free flying Mute Swans
are not allowed in Minnesota as they are a nuisance in areas
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Park and Recreation Commission
Public Hearing Minutes
May 27,1986
Page 7
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Rosenwald asked if theasurvey would determine what the actual
numbers of geese that we have. Cooper said that the field teams
would find out how man~~.geese there are, determine how many cap-
ture sites are involved, 'what kinds of difficulties we will be
facing and then the go~ population. In determining what the
target population, Coo~r said it was totally a local decision.
If the Ci ty were to deci:'de they did not want any geese at Lake
Ann Park, then his goal would be to catch everything and leave
nothing. If the goal was to leave 3-4 pairs, then he would
recommend to get everything this year and leave the 3-4 pairs
when we get to the thiDd year. We can achieve most effective
reduction by pulling e~erything out the first year.
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Robinson asked if it was the Commission's task to identify the
target population. Sietsema said that a goal population should
be included in the reca.mmendation to the City Council.
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Sietsema asked Dr. Cooper if his people were equipped to include
Lake Minnewashta in th~s years program should the Council decide
to do so. Cooper indi~ted that there would be no problem in
handling that lake as well.
Mady asked if a total removal was done at a site, how many geese
would there be two to~three weeks later. Cooper said that if
surveys were done there'would not be any geese until geese
started flying in, thersite would be without geese for about a
month. The following spring you would have about 50% of the
current population. Mady continued by asking if there would be
young that would walk from another site to the open water.
Cooper said that the geese are clan animals and would do any
moving or travelling as a group before the capture time.
Rosenwald said that Lake Ann and Lake Lucy are so close together,
would this be treated as one site. Cooper said that they are
probably the same population, nesting on Lake Lucy and feeding at
Lake Ann. c:
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Robinson asked how one~would ascertain what a proper density of
geese would be. Cooper said that the airport has a goal of zero
geese, they are removing all Canada Geese at those sites. He
said realistically we know we will never reach that goal, but
feel quite certain that we can reach a 95% reduction level. Lake
of the Isles set a goal of 100 birds, which means about eight
breeding pairs on the ~slands. New Brighten decided that Long
Lake would be a goose free site as no one there wanted to
tolerate more than one or two pair that may drift in accidently.
Boyt asked if there was any way to make one part of a lake more .
appealing to geese than another. Cooper said the best way to do
that is to mow the shoreline. They are really attracted to mowed
grass for grazing. However, this is not always possible in wet,
marshy areas.
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Park and Recreation Commission
Public Hearing Minutes
May 27, 1986
Page 9
and Recreation Commission recommends that the City proceed with
the proposed program which involves the removal and relocation of
Canada Geese at Lake Ann, Lake Lucy and Lake Susan. The objec-
tive of this program would be to maintain three breeding pair, or
about 30 birds at each site, and to review the Canada Goose popu-
lations on an annual basis. The motion was seconded by Mady and
carried unanimously
Lynch made a motion, due to citizen participation from the Lake
Minnewashta area at the public hearing, the Commission suggests
that the City Council consider extending the program to include
that lake if the City has alternate, non-park funds to do so.
Dr. Cooper has indicated that the cost of adding this site would
be about $500-$750. The motion was seconded by Rosenwald and
carried unanimously.
Robinson made a motion to adjourn the meeting at 9:30 p.m. The
motion was seconded by Boyt and carried unanimously.
Prepared by Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
CITY OF
eHARHASSER
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
DATE: May 30, 1986
TO: Park and Recreaton COmmission
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinat~
RE: Park and Recreation Finance Review
Attached please find the 1985 Annual Report. Please bring this
document with you to the meeting as Don Ashworth, City Manager,
will be present to address how funds are handled for park pro-
jects.
I will be asking the reports back after Tuesday's meeting. If
you would like a copy I will be able to make one for you.
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CITY 0 F
CHAHHASSEH
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
DATE:
May 30, 1986
TO:
Park and Recreation Commission
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
Re:
Chaparral Homeowners request to purchase totlot equipment
for Meadow Green Park
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The Chaparral Homeowners have requested that the totlot equipment
at Meadow Green Park be upgraded and that new play surface be
installed beneath the equipment. The Commission has reviewed
this request at previous meetings and directed staff to install a
pea gravel play surface and swings for older children this year.
It was also decided that future additions to the totlot be con-
sidered in 1987.
The Chaparral Homeowners Association has reviewed this item since
the Commission's decision. They feel that additional equipment is
an immediate need and are willing to spend up to $500 for a cir-
cular climber. Their request is that the Park and Recreation
authorize staff to install and maintain this equipment at Meadow
Green Park.
Staff feels that this is a reasonable request and would not
object to installing or maintaining the equipment. This item
should be reviewed by Dale Gregory, Park Maintenane Superinten-
dant, and the totlot equipment company's consultant to insure
that this equipment is compatable with the existing structure and
does not interfere with traffic flows.
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~(8aparraJ
HOME OWNERS ASSOCIATION
P.O. Box 224, Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317-0224
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CITY GF
CHANHASSEN
PRC DATE: 6-3-86 ~
CC DATE:
CASE NO: .
Prepared by: Sietsema:k
STAFF REPORT
PROPOSAL:
Preliminary and Final Development Plan Review for
232 Residential Units on 124 Acres
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LOCATION: West of Highway 101, just south of Lake Susan
APPLICANT: Meritor Development Corporation
c/o Larry Frank
3800 80th Street
Minneapolis, MN 55431-4408
PRESENT ZONING: P-l, PRO
ACREAGE:
124 Acres
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
N- Lake Susan
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S- Agricultural
E- Low Density Residential
W- Medium Density Residential
EXISTING PARK/OPEN SPACE: No park land exists within the
proposed development. Lake Susan Park lies on the north
side of the lake.
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN: Shows this as a park deficient area.
1990 Land Use Plan identifies park/open space along the lake
edge and west edge of the development. .
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
DATE:
May 29, 1986
TO:
Don Ashworth, City Manager
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator ~
Proposed Canada Goose population Control program
FROM:
SUBJ:
The Park and Recreation Commission held a public hearing on the
proposed Canada Goose Population Control project on Tuesday, May
27, attached please find the minutes of that meeting.
Dr. James Cooper from the University of Minnesota, who is active
in facilitating these programs, was at the meeting to discuss the
program. Dr. Cooper explained that the Canada Goose is a native
species to Minnesota that disappeared in the early part of this
century. Effort~ were made in the 1950's to bring the Canada Goose
back by re-introducing them to numerous sites around the state,
including the metro area. These efforts were very successful and
the well protected areas of the municipal parks and golf courses
have provided a haven for these birds to continually increase in
population. In the early 1980's, many cities and golf courses found
that the number of Canadian Geese were increasing to an intolerable
level. At that time Dr. Cooper began programs to remove and
relocate geese to other sites.
Dr. Cooper suggested'that the City identify a target population
of geese for each proposed site. He indicated that the City
could expect a 50% reduction of geese the first year, 80% reduc-
tion in the current population the second year and an additional
10% reduction in the third and fourth years at the identified
sites. The most dramatic results will take place the first year
the program is in place.
Four residents attended the public hearing, all from the Lake
Minnewashta area. These residents felt that Lake Minnewashta
should be included in the program as geese are a major problem in
their yards. One resident counted over 60 geese on their beach at
one time and indicated that the goose droppings create quite a
mess.
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Approve Construction Plans and Specifications for Lake Drive East Between
Highway 101 and Dakota Avenue:- - -
Monk: A lot of time and thought has gone into these plans and I hesitate
to run right through them. I do have exhibi ts to show easements arxi
all kinds of things. Bob Fregard is here, has elected on his own to sit
through am listen am to be able to answer questions. I will go over some
very brief highlights. Plans do include and you will see, if you looked at
the different sheets, the widening of TH 101 is quite entensive. We did
include a concrete sidewalk on the north side of the street. This is an
eligible MSA project cost arxi storm sewer improvements do include improving
existing drainage on Dakota and will carry water down to the CPT swale and
do include some easements that will have to be awliErl from the Mason
Corporation for the holdings that they own in there. I am not anticipating
any problems. If the Council would like me to go through the plans, I can
go through them quickly or if they would just rather ask questions. I
think the plans are consistent with the Feasibility Study which the Council
did review quite extensively. It's a major project. I don't want to
belittle it and I don't think the Council does either. The hour is late
but the improvements are extensive and we could spend a lot of time.
Hopefully the Council has had a chance to look at them arxi if you have
questions.
Resolution 86-33: Mayor Hamil ton moved, Councilman Geving seconded to
approve the Construction Plans and Specifications for Lake Drive East
Between Highway 101 and Dakota Avenue and the solicitation of construction
bids on the improvements. All voted in favor and motion carried.
Monk: I am assuming on the motion that would include authorization to
proceed for acquisition of easements necessary. There are a couple of
temporary easements.
Park and Recreation Commission Recommendation ~ Goose PopUlation Control
Program.
Lori Sietsema: The Park and Recreation Commission held a public hearing on
May 27, 1986 on the proposed goose population control program. The program
involves removing and relocating Canadian Geese at Lake Ann, Lake Lucy and
Lake Susan. Four people attended that meeting. All four of them were
Minnewashta residents requesting that Lake Minnewashta be included in the
program as well. They have a severe goose problem with the lake homeowners
there. The Park and Recreation Commission recommended that the Ci ty
proceed with the program. Made a secorxi motion suggesting that t:- Council
consider Lake Minnewashta. They were unsure whether they had the) ..;thori ty
to make a bonafide recommendation to include Lake Minnewashta so tney left
it as a suggestion. There were other Lake Minnewashta homeowners here
tonight. Because of the late hour they had to leave. There are still a
few here. CXle of those was Dick Wing and he left me a note he asked me to
read to you.
My concern is not emotional. We have gone from intest and nuisance to
outright stress. My concern is now the health arxi safety of my family. We
57
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City Council Meeting - June 2, 1986
have lost the use of our swimming raft and dock. Two major problems of
recent. Overnight loss of docks am swimming raft through heavy deposits
of goose droppings. Removal which necessitates shovels. Late night and
early morning noise. This very morning at 4:45 a.m. more than 30 geese
came onto our yard with the associated noise level. 'Ibis is a real
problem. I am not asking the City to fix it but only to help me solve it.
I will gladly pledge any fums necessary as may be needed and will approach
additional lake homeowners for additional fums. Richard Wing.
I
I also have peti tons from Red Cedar Point homeowners and other Lake
Minnewashta homeowners.
Councilwoman Swenson: wri, do you know if O1aska has been approached on
this project?
Lori Sietsema: I haven't talked to anyone at O1aska. I did talk to the
people at Lake Minnewashta Regional Park.
Councilwoman Swenson: I think O1aska might be interest in their parks
there because this is a major problem down there.
Mayor Hamilton: Wouldn't it be more appropriate for those people to
contract on their own. We are contracting for the park, for the purpose of
getting them out of the park not city wide. I guess I'm not sure if it is
appropriate at this time, going aroum to every neighborhood and removing
geese. It seems to be up to them as to what they should do.
L
Dr. Jim Cooper: University of Minnesota, Department of Fishery and
Wildlife. The question at hand involves a permitting process through the
Department of Natural Resources and Fish and Wildlife Service. To obtain
these permits for the removal of geese from community property, involves a
collected decision am approval of local authority. In other words,
neither agency wants to be involved with approving removing geese unless
the community itself agrees that this is a problem am should be done so.
Mayor Hamilton: So supposing we go into areas where there are goose
problems. Is that assessed back to them?
Don Ashworth: Mr. Wing has noted his willingness to pay, we have budgeted
monies under the Park am Recreation Commission for the park areas. When
the item was submitted, the Park and Recreation Commission, they were
concerned that they had not dealt with this type of expenditure, that they
should carry out the park monies for other areas in the communi t~. I think
we are in the experimental year. If I might suggest that we appl .~. ~ the
program if we do have private neighborhoods who want to have thel_ area
improved, we will seek their support and literally donate the funds to pay
for that area. If we have a generalized, everyone appears to like this
program, in the future potentially, the City could pick up the cost.
Councilman Geving: wok at the number of PeOple who are interested in
peti tioning. There must be 100 names here. They should be wi 11 ing to chip
in something to get the problem under control.
~
58
City Council Meeting - June 2, 1986
r
Mayor Hamilton: Like Richard said, he was willing to put funds up and he
thought he could get funds from the neighbors. What would be the
additional cost, what do you charge per goose or how do you do that?
Dr. Cooper: The cost is approximately 25% of the quoted cost. What it
invol ves in an area like Lake Minnewashta would be somewhere in the range
I would estimate, two-thirds of a day with a crew and trucks and that runs
us, depending on the travel distance and logistics, anywhere from $500.00
to $700.00.
Mayor Hamilton: I think we ought to go ahead and go up there and with that
amount of money, I think we should probably do that.
Councilwoman Watson: 0:> the geese arrive there well, do they, in Oklahoma
or wherever we ship them off to? They stay there next spring? They will
go back to Oklahoma?
r
Dr. Cooper: Yes they do. The majority of them stay there. The work that
we have been doing is experimental. That is why the Uni versi ty
involved with it. If it was operational, we had all the answers, then the
University would not be involved. Our estimates on work we have done in
Minneapolis, Golden Valley and now in New Brighton at the International
Airport, indicates that, in round figures, 85% of the geese that are
transported to Oklahoma, remain there. The other 15%, for some reason,
like Minnesota and all our nice weather in the summer, and find their way
back. We are working closely with both the Department of Natural Resources
as well as the Fish and Wildlife Service to have an alternative site and
will be using an alternative site this year. We hope that we can eliminate
this return. It does reduce the effectiveness and extends the length of
time it takes to obtain a population reduction. The other part of your
question is that all transportation and handling of these birds adheres to
all of the ordinances passed by both State as well as Humane Society
ordinances and requirements.
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The question was asked if anyone had petitioned from Lake Susan. Lori
Sietsema said that no one had. The person from the public indicated that
he thought they were the most beautiful site you can see on the lake.
Lori Sietsema stated that Dr. Cooper's staff does a survey on the lakes
and their goal is for three pairs per lake. If three pairs is all that is
on the lake, then they wouldn't do any removal of geese.
Ray Redker stated he lived on the north shore in Sterling Estates. When he
buil t his house in 1976, there were two geese. Last summer he co '.:.<1 110
on his property. There are usually 6-8 small ones per pair and i~ is
mul tiplying.
J
Alfred Smith collected the signatures on the petition. They were all from
lake property owners on the lake. He indicated that the $700.00 Dr.
Cooper indicated, taxes should cover the additional cost of $700.00.
Councilwoman Swenson asked if the geese were taken as family groups.
59
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City Council Meeting - June 2, 1986
Dr. Cooper: When we catch the geese, they are caught as family groups.
However, the adults are sent to Oklahoma and the immature birds are
separated and released here in Minnesota. That is a very successful
program. The mature birds will call home that place they learn to fly,
just as the geese that originally started here, did so. The immatures are
released in State approved areas in coordination with the Department of
Natural Resources where sportsmen and other folks desire additional geese.
Not in urban or suburban areas.
I
Lori Sietsema: The funds required are $3,36~.~~ per year for a four year
program.
Councilwoman Swenson: Do we have to take the whole four year program. We
might decide we don't like it after a couple of years.
Lori Sietsema: In the Park and Recreation Commission recommendation they
did recomnend that we evaluate the program on an annual basis.
Mayor Hamil ton: We need an addi tional $5~~.~~ to $7~~.~~ to cover Lake
Minnewashta so if we go to $4,~~~.~~ that should be reasonable cost.
Mayor Hamil ton moved, Councilman Geving seconded to approve the Goose
Population Control Program and allocate $4,~~~.~~ per year to accomplish
the goal and include Lake Minnewashta. All voted in favor and motion
carried.
Dr. Cooper: The Canadian Goose is here to stay and this is one thing when
we talked to the Park and Recreation Commission, is even if you elect to
eliminated all geese in Chanhassen, that the geese in adjacent comunities
will pioneer into here so I want to very upfront on this that this is to
some degree an ongoing program of goose control. However, I feel it is
much more widely than the individual owner needs. We are hoping to
coordinate the the Met Council and look at this in a much broader issue
because we talking l~,~~~ geese and that is up from l,~~~ in 1973 and it
could 20-100,000 if these programs aren't implemented.
Accept Feasibility Study for Water Trunk Line and Storage Facility
Improvements.
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Monk: Again I am sorry for the lateness of the hour because this is a
major issue that needs to be addressed by the City Council. At this point
in time I am going to let the report and comments speak for themselves. I
am recommending that the Council accept the Feasibility Study and - Ithorize
scheduling of a public hearing at which time we will be able to gL ':nto the
details of the proposal at much more depth. The j ist of the proposal is
basically that I have found that the construction of a tower and two trunk
lines in Chanhassen are very much needed at this point in time and I am
recommending that trunk lines be constructed and fully assessed where the
Silica Reservoir be funded by the City using the directed general funds.
The Manager's office has done extensive work in that area and will be
prepared to review the finances on June 9th with City Council as you look
at your upcoming bond issue. I can not overstate the need for the
~
~
60
CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
DATE: May 30, 1986
TO: Park and Recreaton Commission
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinator~
RE: Red Cedar Point Homeowner's Request for Feasibility Study
and Cost Estimate for Bike Path Along Minnewashta Pkwy
The Red Cedar Point Homeowners Association has requested that the
City initiate a feasibility study for a pedestrian trail from
Highway 5 to Highway 7, along Minnewashta Parkway. They are
interested in knowing if such a trail is feasible and, if so,
what the project costs would be.
Such a project would involve employing a firm such as Van Doren
Hazard Stallings to prepare designs for the trail, cost estima-
tes, and calculations of estimated assessment. A feasibility
study is quite detailed and most likely not an inexpensive item.
I will have a rough estimate of how much consultant fees will be
at Tuesdays meeting.
This request provides the Park and Recreation Commission with the
opportunity to look at the broader picture of bike trails in
Chanhassen. Now may be the time to look to preparing a compre-
hensive bike path plan for the City. The Comprehensive Plan,
adopted in 1980, is quite vague ,in the section on bike paths and
is has not outlined a definite plan for such.
Residents are becoming more and more active and are looking for
a safe way to walk, run or bike around the City. A comprehensive
pedestrian trailway would involve connecting neighborhoods to
each other, connecting neighborhoods to the downtown area and to
schools, and possibly connect our COmmuntiy to neighboring com-
munities.
1
.
.
The Park and Recreation Commission is being asked to authorize a
feasibility study for a pedestrian trail along Minnewashta Park-
way. This office is recommending that the Commission authorize a
feasibility study for a comprehensive trailway that would not .
only address Minnewashta Parkway, but the entire City.
.
.
.
~I a y 9, 1986
Mr. Don Ashworth
City Manager
City of Chanhassen
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Mr. Ashworth;
SUBJECT: Feasability of and cost of walk/bike pathway along
Minnewashta Parkway
I am writing for the benefit of
between Highway 5 and Highway 7,
access to their property.
the Chanhassen residents, located
that use Minnewashta Parkway for
It was unanimously decided that the property owners would like to see
a right away for walkers, joggers, and bike riders along our scenic
Minnewashta Parkway. This can be the park and recreation development
for this area. The result of the petition clearly defines that most
of the citizens can use this walk/bike pathway.
The definition of "unanimously decided" is derived from the results of
our petition. There are 179 households in the area of concern. 124 or
70% of these households were contacted. 98% (121) households are in
favor 2% (3) households are not. The petition is enclosed.
We respectfully request that you and your department put this request
before the appropriate body (department, commision or full counsel) on
as early a time frame as possible and before Minnewashta Parkway goes
into major spring repair which could affect the decision by the
appropriate governing body regarding the funding for this much needed
improvement.
Kespectfully submitted,
_//L[Vl(1
Greg Dattilo, President
(612) 474-0U65
7201 Juniper Ave
Excelsior, MN 55331
GD:bb
pc: Barb Dacy
City Planner
Bill Monk
City Engineer
RECE,.'ED
MAY - 9 1986
C'T'lOF CHANHASSEN
DIU /-s/'O/U /
WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
.
SAFE WALK/BIKE
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OF A PROPOSED,
RIGHT-AWAY ON MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY.
NAME
ADDRESS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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2.___ ~_~21~~-------JJ----1L-------~---------------------
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.
.
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WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OF CONDUCTING A FEASIBILITY STUDY
FOR A SAFE WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY ON MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY.
NAME
ADDRESS
-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l~~J~jJ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2.~~jC,"__________~~:(!__~L&~&__~J~______________________
3.C(~____-L!I~~~______~jf~__~<:~~~___~L~_____________
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2~. ~~_'7C._~______~ej:-:.'::!_r?:>::~_{_,:?-::!~______________
WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OF A FEASIBILITY AND COST STUDY
FOR A SAFE WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY ON MINNDNASHTA PARKWAY.
NAME ADDRESS
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26.----------------------------------------------------------------
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.
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fJS5e55POV"1'j Po r WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OF A PROPOSED, SAFE WALK/BIKE
RIGHT-AWAY ON MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY.
NAME
ADDRESS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1.~,7,,~-~~~,~~--------------------~~~--~L~~~-~--~~~~
2. /, i / ,// /r / /
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3. _2/~_ -d~-_______________~k~_L__~_~___
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11. -~ ". .0-/1~lliD ~ _________________:~_____________~I '___ ________
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21. __ !lIzz.-t!~:4j_ ___,------------, _~!:~~_____~~_____~~__________
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22._~~~~~-~-~~- J-~~_________~jQ~~_________________________
23._~~:~:z;~~~~--~~-----~-~---~-~-----~~----------
19.
24._____________.._____________________________________________________
25.___________________________________________________________________
WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY r-o" .
A Fep. $/ Jill L.IT\( 5TvPY "
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OFA A PROPOSED, SAFE WALK/BIKE
RIGHT-AWAY ON MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY.
NAKE
ADDRESS
-:~~~.V"".-. i!i..'ZT7-Z:);[.2.. ~~~~~f;;3{~~CL~d:u~~~1:1. ~~::.:::~~~~~~~~~
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13._~_~~____~~~______________________________________
14.__________________________________________________________________
15.
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.
.
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o /v / .s/O(U d--
WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE
RIGHT-AWAY ON KINNEWASHTA
IN FAVOR
PARKWAY.
OF
PROPOSED,
A
SAFE
WALK/BIKE
NAME
ADDRESS
1. -~_t3d/..ZZ'o<~______..3r;23J~e..o._~~.,.&_4Z.~~.la......;i:t'-3~1
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24.___________________________________________________________________
25.___________________________________________________________________
~//S/;/23
WALK/BIKE RIGHT~AWAY
WE THE
RIGHT-AWAY
UNDERSIGNED ARE
ON MINNEWASHTA
IN FAVOR
PARKWAY.
OF
A
PROPOSED,
SAFE
WALK/BI.
NAME
ADDRESS
---------------------------------------------------
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10._________________________________________________________________...
11.___________________________________________________________________
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.SIGNING- OF'T/-I/5 r'ETII/ON /.5 ,0 5i-16tA.'
I N If MltJ tJ& W 115H fit fl1RI<. w 11 y W4l.f.( / BII<. C P /IT"',
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Fol< SA I i) IN A J...k W..qy.
COMMUNITY /Nrci.
II I SIN NO
Ilsst3ss, 1113111 TS
.
WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
() (/UI ) I ~,-.-J
v
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR
RIGHT-AWAY ON KINNEWASHTA PARKWAY.
OF
A
PROPOSED,
SAFE
WALK/BIKE
>f
ADDRESS
NAME
1.
---------------------~----------------------------------
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OF
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SAFE
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WALK/BIKE
NAME
ADDRESS
-:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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G~~~ ~~u
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WE THE UNDERSIGNED
RIGHT-AWAY ON
ARE
KINNEWASHTA
IN FAVOR
PARKWAY.
RIGHT-AWA'F.-tA5\ Bl L..I TY 5TU(JY
A A PROPOSED.. SAFE WALK/BIKE
FbI2- k-
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WALK/BIKE
OF
3.
4.
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6.
7.
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9.
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11.
12.
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NAME ^__/, _\~ ADDRESS
-:~~-7\-~-~--:----~:~~-~?~-:----~---.-;;-----~----~-.------~-~--
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17.___________________________________________________________________
-
18._~_________________________________________________________________
19.___________________________________________________________________
20.______________________~_____-----------------------________________
21.___________________________________________________________________
22.___________________________________________________________________
.
23.___________________________________________________________________
24.___________________________________________________________________
25.___________________________________________________----------------
WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OF
FOR A SAFE WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY ON
CONDUCTING A FEASIBILITY
MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY.
STUDY
.
NAME
ADDRESS
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WE THE UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OF A PROPOSED, SAFE WALK/BIKE
RIGHT-AWAY ON KINNEWASHTA PARKWAY.
NAME
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WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY
WE THE
FOR A
UNDERSIGNED ARE IN FAVOR OF
SAFE WALK/BIKE RIGHT-AWAY ON
CONDUCTING A FEASIBILITY
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NAME
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C ITV 0 F
CHAHHASSEH
~
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
DATE: May 30, 1986
TO: Park and Recreaton Commission
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator
RE: Minnewashta Regional Park request to allow camping
Attached please find a request from the Minnewashta Regional Park
asking the City to consider a variation on their Park Comprehen-
sive Plan. Mike Liddicoat will be attend Tuesday nights meeting
to present this item.
.
.
. - ,
.
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
(612) 448-3435
CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE
600 EAST FOURTH STREET
CHASKA. MINNESOTA 55318
COUNTY Of CAQVEQ
May 14, 1986
Mr. Don Ashworth, City Manager
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, P.O.Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Don:
.
As I previously discllssed with you over the phone, the County has received an
inquiry from Allen Hasse, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 327 of Waconia and
representing the Minnetonka District Boy Scouts of America to see if the District
can hold an "0rder of the Arrow" camporee in Lake Minnewashta Park on September
7th, 8th and 9th of this year. Allen indicated to me that the event will con-
sist of about 100 Boy Scouts representing 22 different southwest metro area
troops, including two from Chanhassen. If you have ever been into scouting, you
may know that the "0rder of the Arrow" represents the elite of the scouts from
each troop. While the scouts are in the park, they are willing to donate their
labor towards any of a number of projects we can come up with.
The camporee request, however, brings up an issue which mayor may not be of
concern to the City of Chanhassen. The issue is "group reserved camping" as
defined in the Lake Minnewashta Park Master Plan and whether the County should
allow it to take place in the park now, outside the designated area, or wait
until well into the future when the designated area is ready to accomodate this
type of camping. (This Boy Scout camporee request is exactly what we had in
mind when the concept of "group reserved camping" was added to the master plan.)
In the master plan, the group reserved camping area lies west of the Ches-Mar
Farms complex on land that until recently was in agricultural production. It has
since been seeded into park grass. We are in the process of preparing a "big
\'/oods" reforestation plan for the area, but even if funds would permit us to
plant trees this year, it will obviously be a long time before the area can
support camping activities.
Based on this request, the County would like to knowhow the City of Chanhassen
views this issue. As you may agree, the issue is argumentative. On one hand, -
the camporee should not be approved because the camping itself would be in an
area other than the designated camping area. On the other hand, the concept of
"group reserved camping" was endorsed by the City, County and Metropolitan Council
when each approved the master plan, so maybe it shouldn't matter to any of us
where the scouts camp in the park. If it is the City's opinion that we should
wait to allow group reserved camping in the park, our answer to the Boy Scout
. District can be a simple "no" at this time. If it is City opinion that the
camporee should be allowed to take place now, we would also have to know the
RECEi.'C:O
Afflrmatrue Action Equal OpportUn/tv Employer
MAY 1 9 1986
CITY Of:' r.1-I6Nl-IA~~f:'N
CITY 0 F
CHAHHASSEH
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.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
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MEMORANDUM
fle""t-.;' ~
Dal- (; //3./ -}--_
Date SL~;1(!I'~ I;~ ·
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager
'r
FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinat~J~\'
June 13, 1986
011. Sur,":';'; "
_~.!..uv._---
DATE:
SUBJ: Minnewashta Regional Park Request to Allow "Group Reserved
Camping" in Non-Designated Areas
The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed Mike Liddicoat's
attached request to allow "group reserved camping" in non-designated
areas.
.
The Minnewashta Regional Park was issued a conditional use permit by
the City based on park uses outlined in the Master Park Plan.
"Group reserved camping" is identified as an allowable activity and
the master plan has designated an area for such. However, this area
is still undeveloped and not ready for this type of activity.
Mike Liddicoat, Carver County Park Director, has received a request
for group camping. The County Park Commission is in favor of
allowing this activity in an alternate location, but felt that the
City should be consulted on this modification to the master plan.
Park and Recreation Commission Action:
The Park and Recreation Commission moved to recommend that the City
approve the modification of the Minnewashta Regional Park Master
Plan to allow "group reserved camping" in non-designated areas on an
interim basis at the discretion of the County Park Commission. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
.
.
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
(612) 448.3435
CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE
600 EAST FOU RTH STREET
CHASKA, MINNESOTA 55318
COUNTY Of CAQVEQ
May 14, 1986
~k. Don Ashworth, Ci ty Manager
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, P.O.Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Don:
.
As I previously discussed with you over the phone, the County has received an
inquiry from Allen Hasse, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 327 of Waconia and
representing the Minnetonka District Boy Scouts of America to see if the District
can hold an "0rder of the Arrow" camporee in Lake Minnewashta Park on September
7th, 8th and 9th of this year. Allen indicated to me that the event will con-
sist of about 100 Boy Scouts representing 22 different southwest metro area
troops, including two from Chanhassen. If you have ever been into scouting, you
may know that the "0rder of the Arrow" represents the elite of the scouts from
each troop. While the scouts are in the park, they are willing to donate their
labor towards any of a number of projects we can come up with.
.
The camporee request, however, brings up an issue which mayor may not be of
concern to the City of Chanhassen. The issue is "group reserved camping" as
defined in the Lake Minnewashta Park Master Plan and whether the County should
allow it to take place in the park now, outside the designated area, or wait
until well into the future when the designated area is ready to accomodate this
type of camping. (This Boy Scout camporee request is exactly what we had in
mind when the concept of "group reserved camping" was added to the master plan.)
In the master plan, the group reserved camping area lies west of the Ches-Mar
Farms complex on land that until recently was in agricultural production. It has
since been seeded into park grass. We are in the process of preparing a "big
woods" reforestation plan for the area, but even if funds would permit us to
plant trees this year, it will obviously be a long time before the area can
support camping activities.
Based on this request, the County would like to know how the City of Chanhassen
views this issue. As you may agree, the issue is argumentative. On one hand,
the camporee should not be approved because the camping itself would be in an
area other than the designated camping area. On the other hand, the concept of
"group reserved camping" was endorsed by the City, County and Metropolitan Council
when each approved the master plan, so maybe it shouldn't matter to any of us
where the scouts camp in the park. If it is the City's opinion that we should
wait to allow group reserved camping in the park, our answer to the Boy Scout
District can be a simple "no" at this time. If it is City opinion that the
camporee should be allowed to take place now, we would also have to know the
RECEiVED
Affirmative Action Equal Opportunity Employer
MAY 1 9 1986
page 2
~1r. Don Ashworth
answers to the following questions:
.
1. Even though the designated area for "group reserved campi ng"
is not yet ready, does the City agree that these types of
camporees for Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Campfire Girls, church
groups, etc. should be encouraged? Or does the City approve
of just this specific Boy Scout camporee request?
2. If the City approves of and encourages thi s type of campi ng
now, does the City want to be notified each time the County
park system gets such requests? If so, on an advisory or
approval basis?
The County Park Commission will be discussing this same issue at their May
meeting. For your part Don, I would appreci~te it if you could forward this
information to the Chanhassen City Council for their consideration. In the
meantime, I'll let Mr. Hasse know that an answer to the Boy Scout District
camporee request is forthcoming. Thanks for your help, Don. If you have any
questions, please give me a call.
Sincerely,
~~
Mike Liddicoat
Park Di rector
.
MWL/bm
cc: Wayne Fransdal, Chair
Carver County Park Commission
.
EXCERPT OF JUNE 3, 1986 PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES
.
Mike Liddicoat, Park Director for Carver County, attended the
Park and Recreation Commission meeting to discuss the request to
consider a variation of the Master Park Plan to allow "group
reserved camping" in non-designated areas.
Liddicoat began by saying that the County Park Commission is
asking the City of Chanhassen for advice. He said that the Minn-
ewashta Regional Park Master Plan was put together by the City,
the County and the Metropolitan Council in 1982 and that the plan
designated an area within the park for "group reserved camping".
This type of activity involves an organized group, such as the Boy
Scouts, Girl Scouts, or church groups, requesting a permit
allowing them to camp in the park. The master plan spells out
what group camping is and identifies an area for such.
Liddicoat said that although the master plan allows for group
camping, the designated area is not ready for such use. He said
that he felt the City may want to be part of this decision as to
whether or not to allow this activity at this time.
.
Lynch said that he did not feel this was a decision to be made by
the City, but by the County, as they would have to handle it.
Ashworth pointed out that it is a conditional use permit and the
City Council did review the Master Plan before it was adopted.
He said the Council would be looking for a statement from this
group as to whether this should be allowed to take place. Lynch
said that it was his opinion that this request be denied until
the area designated for group camping is ready.
Boyt asked what would have to be done to prepare this area. Lid-
dicoat said that it would have to be forested.
Robbins asked what the disadvantage would be to allow this
request at this time. Liddicoat said that basically the disad-
vantage is that the area is not ready and another area would have
to be used, and extra satellites would be rented for that area.
Mady asked if approving this request would set a precedent for
any future requests, even if the County did not want to allow a
certain group in. Liddicoat said that he could not think of an
undesirable group.
McKay asked what the County wanted to do. Liddicoat said that
they were unsure. Their first thought was to approve the request
but then thought they should get Chanhassen's input. He said the
County Commission is in support of the request, but wanted to
know the City's opinion.
.
Boyt suggested having the group pay for the extra satellites.
Lynch suggested they have the group (a Boy Scout group) work on
the undeveloped area, as these campers are supposed to be a
working group.
McKay summarized by saying that the concept of group camping has been
approved in the master plan but the area identified for this type
of activity is not yet ready and the park director does not have a
problem with finding an alternative location for group camping. .
He stated that allowing this group to camp in an alternate location
sets a precedent and it will have to be allowed in the future.
He said that he felt this was not the City's jurisdiction, but
the County's. Liddicoat said that the County makes the final
decision but were seeking advice form the City.
Rosenwald said that if it would be 10-15 years before the
designated area was ready, he would be in favor of finding a tem-
porary location.
Robbins moved to endorse the "Order of the Arrow" Camporee at
Minnewashta Regional Park on September 7th, 8th, and 9th and
advise the County to explain to the scouts what the basic rules
of the camps site are. McKay seconded the motion.
Robinson said that there had been two points made in Mr.
Liddicoat's letter1 if we approve this request, should this type
of activity be encouraged or does the City only approve of this
specific Boy Scout Camporee request1 and if the City approves of
and encourages this type of camping, does the City want to review
each request? Lynch said that he did not feel this Commission
should be recommending something that we have no jurisdiction
over. Robbins said that this was not a recommendation but an
endorsement.
Ashworth said that the action that the Commission will be taking .
is a recommendation to the City Council. We do have a con-
ditional use permit with them in the master plan and the master plan
designates areas for specific use. What you will be doing is to
modify the master plan to show an alternate area for "group
reserved camping" for a specific amount of time.
Robbins amended the motion to read as follows: the Commssion
recommends the approval of modifying the Minnewashta Regional
Park Master Plan to allow "group reserved camping" in non-
designated areas on an interim basis at the discretion of the
County Park Commission. The motion carried unanimously.
.
~.2 DD
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 16, 1986
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Don Kelley stated the reason they were here is because George Donnelly
suggested it. He felt he already had signatures and addresses from all
the neighbors on a petition form with the question on the form of are you
interested in installation of sanitary sewer. He said he would like to go
back to these people arrl say that a preliminary study says that we are
looking at $42,000.00 divided 16 ways plus what it costs to do this and
that.
Councilman Geving stated that if the decision is made to go with this
project, it is all or none arrl everyone would be included in this project
with an assessment.
Don Kelley stated there wasn't anyone that was strongly opposed. He felt
people would be more responsive is they had a firm yearly figure for oest.
Councilwoman Swenson stated it would appear we have an emergency here and
we are talking about something that is going to take a considerable period
of time.
Don Kelley stated that there weren't any problems with sewer backing up
into the house at this point but it might begin again in September. His
problem appears to be from runoff of rain water in the spring and when
there are very heavy rains.
Mayor Hamilton stated he should use the City's Petition form. The City
Attorney stated he should use that arrl have the residents sign it as an
official form then the City can go ahead with a feasibility study and he
didn't think it would take that long.
Don Kelley asked what could be done in the interim of completing the
petition form.
Councilman Horn asked is the Council could make a motion tonight with a
condition of the Staff receiving the Petition.
Roger Knutson stated 35% of the frontage would be required to proceed.
Resolution 86-40: Councilman Horn moved, Mayor Hamil ton seconded to
approve the feasibility study to the time of receipt by the Staff of an
acceptable petition for sewer. All voted in favor and motion carried.
Councilwoman Swenson stated it was her understanding that this would go
through an assessment policy procedure and if you have retired people and
senior ci ti zens, there is a senior ci ti zen deferment policy in the €vent of
hardship.
Request to Allow "Group Reserved Camping" in Non-camping Areas at
- --
Minnewashta Regional Park.
Lori Sietsema: We have a request from the County Park Commission to
consider allowing group reserved camping in a non-designated area. The
master plan for the Minnewashta Regional Park designates an area for group
40
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 16, 1986
camping as opposed to just individuals corning and camping. One area for
big groups to come in with a capacity being of about 450 people~ '!hat area
is still an open field that hasn't had trees planted on it, it is not ready
for that use yet. '!he park has received a request from a Boy Scout troop
to hold a camporee there. Because it would be held in a different location
than designated in the master plan, the park decided they should come to
the City to see if that would be allowed. We have a coniitional use
permi ts that states that the City wouldn't have authority over development
standards unless it was different from scopin.;J capacities in the master
plan. '!he master plan also shows that a temporary area could be used for
this purpose until the area was ready.
.
Lori Sietsema than went to the overhead to show where the area was located
on the map.
Mayor Hamil ton asked if the request was corning from the County.
Lori Sietsema stated the request was corning from the Park Director, Mark
Liddicoat. The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed this and basically
recommended that the comi tional use permit be modified to allow this at
the discretion of the County Park Board.
Councilwoman Swenson stated the letter from Mr. Liddicoat presented two
questions. She agreed that the City should be notified and approve each
time the County park system gets such requests. She disagree with the
theory that there are not undesirable groups.
.
Mayor Ham il ton: I think the request has to go through them. He has to
approve it first. If somebody is going to in there and camp, if this is a
group they have to get permission fran the County.
Lori Sietsema:
group they are.
be for.
'!hey have to get permission and describe what kind of a
It outlines in the master plan the type of groups it would
Councilwoman Swenson asked if it was within the confines of the City and
she felt it wouldn't take much time to approve each group or not.
Councilman Geving stated the question is how many groups does he get in the
course of a year.
Councilwoman Watson stated it probably wouldn't be more than 1 or 2.
Councilman Geving: I think the answer am we need to responi to h~m on
this or Lori, I suppose, I would say my answer to number 1 would be yes, we
would encourage this type of activity, the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Camp
Fire Girls, Church Groups and so forth. We should encourage this. '!he
seconi one, as far as I'm concerned I don't care if we are notified or not.
Counci 1 woman Watson stated she cared. She thought the County should be
responsible for the policing ani making sure these groups stay within the
confines of the park.
.
41
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 16, 1986
Councilman Geving: '!hey are now. I think they have that charge.
Councilwoman Swenson: They ask us if we want to have this approval basis
and I think we should accept it. If they hadn't felt they would be
receptive to the idea of an approval from the City, they wouldn't have
asked. Since they have asked, it seems to me perfectly logical that we say
yes we appreciate having this on an approval basis. I can't fim fault
with that. '!he City should know what groups are going in there and say
whether or not they are agreeable to it.
r
Don Ashworth asked if there was a mechanism that would spell out certain
groups. His wife is involved with the Girl Scouts and they are volunteers
who sometimes forget they need permits and it is the last minute before
they finally call am ask to use the park.
Lori Sietsema stated there was list of groups. In the master plan it
specifically states the groups that would be allowed.
Mayor Hamilton moved, Councilman Horn seconded to approve the Request to
allow "Group Reserved Camping" in Non-camping Areas in the Minnewashta
Regional Park with the list of approved groups that can use it such as Boy
Scouts, Girl Scouts, Camp Fire Girls, etc. The list that is in the Master
Plan and should there be some group that wouldn't be on the list, the
Council should be notified and asked for approval. All voted in favor and
motion carried.
Don Ashworth stated he would ask Mike Liddicoat to provide an annual report
at the em of each year as to the total usage am by what groups.
l
Authorization to Proceed with Development Plans and Specifications for Lake
Ann Park BallfIeld Lightingproject. - - -
Councilwoman Swenson moved, Councilman Horn seconded to approve the
authorizaton to proceed with development plans am specifications for Lake
Ann Park Ballfield Lighting project. All voted in favor and motion
carried.
Mayor Hamilton asked if this would start in August.
Lori Sietsema said it would probably start in August after the ball season
is over.
Revise 1986 Budget, Defease Lake Ann Park Bonds.
Resolution 86-41: Councilman Geving moved, Councilwoman Watson seconded to
amend the 1986 Budget to allow for prepayment of the Lake Ann Expansion
contract for deed. All voted in favor am motion carried. .
Approve Specifications for 1986 Sealcoating Program.
Bill Monk presented a map showing what has been accomplished the last two
years and what will be accomplished this year. '!he City will get to about
42
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CITY 0 F
CHAHHASSEH
.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
DATE: May 31, 1986
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
1
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinato~,\
.}~
SUBJ: Lake Ann Park Expansion Property
Approxiamtely two years ago the City negotiated a purchase of
approximately 20 acres for the expansion of Lake Ann Park.
Payment of the purchase price was anticipated to occur through .
park dedication fees. A net interest rate of 9% was negotiated
- such being very favorable at that time.
Our current position is:
- Monies are currently available and are in escrow to pay the
full cost for the Lake Ann expansion~ and
- Current interest earnings on City investments are signifi-
cantly lower than the 9% being paid on the 5 year
contract.
with the concurrence of the Park and Recreation Commission, this
office will process full payment of the outstanding balance when
due in August of this year.
.
.
CITY 0 F
CHARHASSER
Iv
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordi na tor ~()
,--,,/y'
DATE: June 2, 1986 L
SUBJ: Plans and Specs for Ballfield Lighting Project
.
Chanhassen received a 1986 LCMR Grant for the lighting of
Ballfield #1 at Lake Ann Park. Before we can proceed with this
project, it is necessary to have plans and specifications pre-
pared. Staff is requesting that the Commission authorize staff
to have plans and specifications prepared by a consultant, such
as Van Doren-Hazard-Stallings for the Lake Ann Park Ballfield
Lighting Project.
.
CITY OF
CHAHHASSEH
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
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MEMORANDUM
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FROM:
Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation
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Coordinator _---lLLI~/J'(,--,
TO:
Don Ashworth, City Manager
DATE:
June 13, 1986 ,
Lake Ann Ballfield Lighting Project ~.~
SUBJ:
As you know, the City of Chanhassen received a 1986 LCMR develop-
ment grant for the ballfield lighting project at Lake Ann Park.
This project involves the installation of lights on Ballfield #1.
.
It is necessary to have plans and specifications prepared before
proceeding with the project. The Park and Recreation Commission
has reviewed this item and recommended that authorization be
given to staff to have a consultant, such as Van Doren Hazard
Stallings, prepare the plans and specifications for the Lake Ann
Park Ballfield Lighting Project.
.
.
.
.
Exerpt of Park and Recreation Commission Minutes
Lake Ann Park Ballfield Lighting Project
June 3, 1986
Sietsema said that the City had received an LCMR Park Development
Grant for 1986 for the ballfield lighting project at Lake Ann
Park. She said that before construction could begin it was
necessary to have plans and specifications prepared by a con-
sultant such as Van Doren Hazard Stallings.
Lynch made a motion to recommend the autorization of staff to
have plans and specifications prepared by a consultant, such as
Van Doren Hazard Stallings, for the Lake Ann Park Ballfield
Lighting Project.