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1986 09 02 Agenda . Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Agenda September 2, 1986 *P1ease meet at City Hall at 7:00 p.m. as we will be visiting Meadow Green Park. 1. Call to Order, 7:30 p.m. 2. Minutes of August 5, 1986. 3. Updates on Park Related Items. 4. 1986 Minnesota Recreation and Park Association Annnua1 Fall Conference. 5. 1987 Capital Improvement Program. . 6. Commissioners Presentations. . ,..., c::;/\ Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 . A regular meeting of the Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Chairman Lynch at 7:30 p.m. Commissioners present were Mike Lynch, Mike Rosenwald, Sue Boyt, Curt Robinson, Jim Mady, Wallace McKay. Charlie Robbins was absent. Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator was also present. Minutes The minutes of the Park and Recreation meeting of July 1, 1986 were reviewed. Robinson moved to accept the minutes as pre- sented. The motion was seconded by Mady and carried unanimously. Updates on City Council Action on Park Related Items Sietsema said that her Memorandum regarding City Council action on park related items was self explanatory and there for the Commission's information. She said no discussion or action was needed unless the Commission had any questions. Boyt asked if the City Council receives the Park and Recreation Commission's minutes. Sietsema said that they do. Boyt refered to the bottom of page 12 of the City Council minutes dated July 21. She said that Dale Geving stated that he feels the Park and Recreation Commission should develop a comprehensive plan for . trails. Boyt said that she attended that Council meeting and pointed out that the Park and Recreation Commission had made that recommendation in their last minutes. She stated that she did not feel that the City Council was paying much attention to what the Commission is doing, as no one on the Council seemed to be aware that we had recommended that a trail plan be developed. She said that the City Council minutes reflect that it is Dale Geving's idea and the Park and Recreation Commission ought to be more on the ball. Lynch said that he had developed that opinion long ago and expressed it several times, but it gets frustrating. Boyt said that she has been to several meetings recently and the Park and Recreation Commission is put down over and over again, as being incompetent and not doing our jObs. She said that she just wanted to bring this to the Commission's attention. .. Lynch asked what the status of trai1way requests. Sietsema said that the Council reviewed the request for a trail along Minnewashta Parkway and the one along Carver Beach Road. She said that the Council tabled action until a trail plan could be developed, as the Commission had recommended. It was at this point that Councilman Geving stated that a trail plan and overall park plan should be developed. Lynch asked how we get started on updated the existing Comprehensive Plan. Sietsema said that Mark Koegler would be working with staff and that currently they were working on the . . . . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 2 planning section. She said that the updating process would begin on the Park and Recreation section in September. Boyt said that instead of responding to our request for trail way plan to be included in the updating process the Council said that another committee should be formed to develop a park plan that would include Commission members, Dale Geving and residents. Lynch asked if anyone on the Commission was interested in serving on this committee, no one was. McKay stated that he would like to add the trail and park plan issue to the end of this agenda for discussion. He said that he would like to see an outline of this process so we know where we are going. Lynch asked what the status was of the park shelter building that the Legion was constructing at Lake Ann Park. Sietsema said that the trusses had just recently been ordered and that they take five weeks for delivery. She said that it was her understanding that construction would begin upon their arrival. South Lotus Lake Boat Access Operational Procedures Sietsema said that the South Lotus Lake boat access is currently under construction and it is anticipated that it will be completed sometime this fall, after Labor Day weekend. She said that City Council had directed the Park and Recreation Commission to review operational procedures for the access and forward a recomendation to them. Sietsema said the South Lotus Lake Boat Access was developed with LAWCON/LCMR funds which are administered by the Department of Energy and Economic Development (DEED). Sietsema said that she had discussed this item in detail with Cindy Wheeler of DEED, who said that a condition of receiving these monies requires that the City comply with standards set by them. According to Wheeler, DEED, as an agency member of the Metropolitan Waters Access Task Force, has set the following standards which are mandatory for all projects using state or federal funds. 1. A minimum of one car/trailer parking space per 20 acres of water surface are to be provided. ~ 2. The access must be open a minimum of 16 hours per day between the hours of 4:00 a.m. and midnight. 3. No special fees may be charged for the use of the boat access. 4. No discriminatory restrictions may be placed on the access users. Any restrictions must apply to all lake users. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 3 . Sietsema handed out a letter from Wheeler reiterating these points. Sietsema said that she recommended that the City adhere to these standards and to remain consistent, recommended that park rules be the same as in all other City parks. These rules are outlined in the City's Park Ordinance and include: No pets allowed No intoxicating liquor Park hours are from 6:00 a.m. until 10:00 p.m. Rosenwald asked what would happen to the old access. Sietsema said that the old access is located in Carver Beach and staff would make it impossible to launch a boat from that access. Lynch said that the letter from Wheeler indicated that the City must provide handicapped parking adjacent to the boat access. Sietsema said that the accepted and approved plan has ten car/trailer spaces on the top of the hill and two handicapped spaces adjacent to the ramp. Lynch said that the letter also indicated that the City would not be able to require access users to park in the provided parking lot, as this would be discrimina- tory. Sietsema said that Wheeler was answering questions . discussed on the telephone. Boyt asked if it was written somewhere that the City could not require access users to park in the parking lot or if that was just Wheeler's interpretation. Sietsema said that it is a state law that we cannot restrict the access, and this would fall into that catagory. Boyt asked that the timeframe of the required hours be explained. Sietsema said that the access must be open for at least 16 hours per day. Those 16 hours can be anywhere between the hours of 4:00 a.m. and midnight. Park hours at other parks are from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m., a total of 16 hours. McKay moved to recommend that the park rules for the South Lotus Lake Boat Access be established so as to be consistant with all other City parks. The motion was seconded by Robinson. Lynch asked for discussion. Roger Karjalahti, 7413 Frontier Trail, said that he agreed that \ the park rules need to be consistent with other parks for law enforcement purposes. There has been talk of a gate house being there and a gate closed so that nobody can use it until 6:00 a.m. and after 10:00 p.m. He indicated that this needs to be . addressed. He said that Sietsema recommended that an attendant be budgeted for fulltime during certain times of the year similar to Lake Riley. It is important to have someone there watching . . . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 4 the number of people coming during the high use times or else having 12 car/trailer spaces does not mean anything, people will be parking trailers everywhere, he said. Lynch said he would be interested in seeing someone out there just to see where the high use patterns are. Karjalahti said that Lake Riley gets a lot of usage and there is often people waiting to get on the lake. He said that he knows people in the Twin Cities who come out to Lake Riley because it is close. Lynch asked how Eden Prairie clears the parking lot when it is closing time there. Sietsema said that most likely they are told as they enter the gate when they must be off. Boyt said that cars parked overnight are towed. Lynch asked if the City and Mr. Bloomberg have discussed the parking issue along the street. He said that he did not want to create a hardship for the people in that subdivision by not allowing parking on the street. Sietsema said there has not been discussion on this as of yet, and that the Commission was asked to discuss these items and send on a recommendation. Sietsema said that there were two ways the City could limit the car/trailer parking to the provided lot. She said that the City could sign the street real well prohibiting car/trailer parking and stating that violators will be ticketed or towed. The other way is to have a gate attendant on duty to close the access when the car/trailer parking area is full, and open it when a parking space is free. She said that she would recommend a combination of the two, having a gate attendant on duty at high usage times and relying on the signs during off-peak times. . Boyt said that at Lake Riley they do not allow people to launch their boat and park their vehicle outside the park. Sietsema said that they do not allow access users to park outside the park when the parking lot is filled. She said that Wheeler had indi- cated that requiring the access user to park in the parking lot would be discriminatory. Wheeler said that if Lake Riley is doing that, they are being discriminatory. Rosenwald asked if 12 cars parked along the street or in drive- ways after launching boats, would we then close down the boat access? Sietsema said no, as long as there are car/trailer parking spaces available, boats must be a-llowed to use the lake. She said that the City cannot restrict the number of boats on the lake, but can restrict the cars parking along the street. Henry Sosin said that if we want to control the number of boats on the lake, then you have to require them to park in those parking Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 5 . spaces. Boyt said that we cannot require them to park there, but we would not provide them with another place to park. It is a round about way of restricting the number of boats. To require them to park there would be discriminatory. Sosin said that he did not know the technicality, but they do that at Lake Riley for the express purpose of limiting the number of boats on the lake. Sietsema said that according to DEED that is discriminatory. Sosin asked what DEED had to do with boat launches. Sietsema said that DEED administers the state and federal funds used for the development of the access and therefore the City is required to comply with the standards set by the Metropolitan Waters Access Task Force. Sosin said he thought it was the DNR that controlled the use of the launches. Sietsema said the Metro Waters Access Task Force is made up of DNR, Metropolitan Council and DEED. She said that because our LAWCON/LCMR funds. are admi- nistered by DEED, the City has to comply with those standards. Jack Melby said this has never come up during all of the meetings we have had with the City Councilor Planning Commission. Melby said that the City Council said that the City could do whatever was reasonable to control that access because it was a City access and not a DNR access. Now that things are said and done there are new and different rules. Boyt said that they had been . misled by the City Council. Melby said there was a tremendous amount of lack of communication between the Park and Recreation Commission and the City Council and staff from what he had wit- nessed. He said that Wheeler's letter is contrary to what he had been told in terms of what kinds of control the City would have over it's access and it's park. Sietsema said that whoever owns or operates the boat access on Lotus Lake must stay within the state laws. State Law prohibits any kind of regulations discriminating against the access user. Melby said that this kind of thing should have been presented to us long ago before the access was approved. Sietsema said that the same standards had been presented to the Planning Commission and the City Council in past meetings, the only difference now is that at that time it was not a state law. She said that this law was not signed until March of 1986 and the boat access was approved last summer. , Sosin said that they should not be able to enforce this because the law was passed after the LAWCON funds were received. Sietsema said that the only cases exempt were the ones who had a water surface zoning agreement with the DNR before the law was passed and that the exception would only hold for seven years. She said that the City did not have any agreement with the DNR regarding restrictions. Melby said that all this time they had been led to believe by the City Council that they would do their utmost in terms of trying . . . . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 6 to limit the number of boats on the lake for the protection of the lake. The issue then was following the guidelines of one boat per 20 acres, which was 12 boats. Now you are saying that that is discriminatory and it does not make sense at all. Lynch said that rules and regulations standards for boat accesses have come a long way. He said that the DNR has come a long way in how they enforce these standards. He said that the DEED letter from Wheeler is a concise portrayal of what we are talking about and that is what I think we have to send up to the City Council. Now, what the Council does with it may be a totally different story. Melby said that he lives directly adjacent to the boat access property and is concerned about the park rules. He asked what will prevent that park from becoming a party place every night until midnight or later. Sietsema said that the access would be closed so the gate would be pulled across at the top of the hill, preventing people from going down there at night. Melby said that this could be a big problem. Lynch said that this type of thing has been a problem in the past. He said secluded areas are more prone to be party spots for kids and perhaps more policing of these areas was needed. He said, however, that he did not feel that the City should discon- tinue the development of facilities because of potential misuse. Melby said that his house is set back from the park and the access about 700 feet, therefore he is not able to see his beach area at night. \ Mady said that as President of the Sunrise Hills Homeowners Association, we have had problems ever since the Sunrise Hills Beachlot has been there. He said that last year a light was installed on the lot down by the beach that comes on when it gets dark and goes off when it gets light. He said that he has not had a complaint yet this year regarding parties on the beachlot. Melby said that a light would be a good idea and asked if it was in the plan. Sietsema said she did not believe there was a light included in the plan, but one could be included. Karjalahti said that people will park on top and walk down to the lake, a light may deter that kind of activity. Sosin said that he would like to address the issue of over utili- zation of the lake and point out some salient facts about the lake that the Commission should consider, rather than just accepting these rules. He said that the Commission's recommen- dation to the City Council can be made regardless of what the standards are. He said that Lotus Lake is a very shallow lake with an average depth of 13 feet, the deepest spot in one place is 32 feet. Shallow bodies of water are much more susceptible to Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 7 . churning by motors than deep bodies of water and the environmental factor is far greater in shallow bodies of water. He said there has already been a major change in the lake due to the construc- tion of the access, which demonstrates the sensitivity of the lake to silt. He said that for the environmental problem that Lotus is susceptible, far greater than Minnewashta or Medicine Lakes, we need to be much more careful. Sosin said that he also wanted to point out that the reason for the one boat per 20 acres, a standard set by DNR, is a safety standard. He said that the DNR came up with a standard of one boat per ten acres for safety and assumed that the homeowners would use 50% of water surface. He said that if you put 24 boats on the lake at anyone time, you have saturated the safety limits set up by DNR, and are then at an unsafe level. He said that if the City does not control the access to limit it to 12" boats rather than 12 cars, the lake may be in trouble and we will be in trouble in terms of safety. He said if you look at a map of Lotus Lake you will see that it is peculiar in shape and notice that there are two spots in the lake that are very narrow. He said that if you have ever been on the lake on a weekend with only six boats with skiers, it is dangerous in that portion of the lake. He suggested that the Commission think very hard about . restricting the number of boats, in other words, somehow require them to park in the lot and close the access when the lot is filled. Lynch asked Mr. Sosin, in view of the shallowness of the lake and the odd shape, would he support a horse power limit on the lake of 10 - 15 horse powers? This would certainly limit life threatening accidents and be much easier on the lake. Sosin said that he personally would support such a restriction, however could not speak for the rest of the people in the Homeowners Association, because a lot of those people are water skiers. Lynch asked what Sosin thought would be the Association's response. Sosin replied that he did not think that they would like it as many have a lot of money invested in very fancy boats. . Mady said that he could think of one way to restrict the horse- power on the lake, although you would have to do it for everyone, and that would be to put a 25 horsepower restriction with exception of special use permits sold by the City to anyone who wants one. He said we could put a flat $50 fee on such a permit and it would have to be on your motor to get on the lake. He said that seasonal and daily permits could be made available. Melby said that another point to consider is a directional pat- tern of travel on the lake. He said that currently the people who live on the lake all travel in a counter clockwise direction when water skiing. On a busy day, people unfamiliar with that pattern may create problems. He suggested that a sign be posted . . . . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 8 at the access stating this. Karjalahti indicated that this could be made mandatory as part of the Metro Waters Access. McKay asked if there was more than one Lake Association on Lotus Lake. Lynch said that there was. McKay asked if we could ask those associations whether they would support a recommendation limiting the horse power. He said that this is an issue that could be worked on and we should get the residents feelings on it. Karjalahti said that he would like to see a sign posted that would specifically state the rules; travel in counter clockwise direction, no liquor, etc. In addition he said that he would like to see a number circulated so that when someone is abusing the lake, they can be reported. Sietsema said that a sign would be posted outlining all park rules and any water surface regulations, simi- lar to what is at Lake Ann Park. She said that any time a resi- dent witnesses someone behaving carelessly or recklessly, they should call the Carver County Sheriff's Department. Mady said that he has always had good response by the Sheriff's Department when he has received a complaint. Karjalahti said he would like to see that number on the park sign. Karjalahti said he would also like to a speed limit placed on the lake. Sietsema said that a speed limit would go through Water Surface Use Zoning which has to be approved by the DNR. She said that she has the applications on file if the City should decide to make application for such. Lynch said that enforcing a speed limit is very hard to do. Boyt said that she felt it was a good idea to have a speed limit posted. Karjalahti said he would like to see' the Sheriff's Department out on Lotus Lake the first few weekends the boat access is open. Sietsema said that she would make that request through the Public Safety Director. McKay made the following motion: 1. To direct staff to ask the City Attorney whether the City can restrict car/trailer parking on the streets adjacent to the parking lot or if a parking restric- tion must include all vehicles. ~ 2. To direct staff to ask the City Attorney if the uni- form restriction of horse power could be done with a special permit obtainable at City Hall for larger horse power motors. 3. To direct staff to contact the homeowners asso- ciations on Lotus Lake to gain input from them on limiting the horse power. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 9 . Sietsema suggested that if further research was needed, that perhaps the Commission should table any action on this item until that information was gathered, making a compLete recommendation at that time. McKay said that if this item was not going directly to Council he would withdraw his motion. Sosin asked that the Commission consider one more item. He said that if you look at just the park itself you have a slightly skewed picture. He said that the access to the park is part of another building project which will have about 110 units imme- diately adjacent to it. He said that this park and boat access is almost like a private country club. In terms of over utiliza- tion, the people who live in that area could drive down, put their boat in the water, put their car and trailer in their garage and you could have 50 boats on the lake. The access to them is very convenient. Lynch said that there is no way that we can be discriminatory in that manner. He pointed out that the lake resident who launches his boat in the spring would then be required to park in the parking lot as well. The gate attendant will not be able to tell the difference between a lake resident and a daily access user. Mady said that the City cannot restrict a boat coming on the . lake. Sosin said that that is exactly what Eden Prairie is doing on Lake Riley. Mady said that they may be able to do this because they are not bound by the standards set by DEED. Dianne prieditis asked if the DNR and DEED were both members of the Metro Waters Access Task Force. Sietsema said that they are. Prieditis said that it sounded contr~dictory if DNR set the stan- dard that for safety purposes only one boat per 20 acres and on the other hand DEED says you cannot be discriminatory as to how many boats can be in the water. Who is right? Sietsema explained that the one boat per 20 acres is a minimum standard guideline. The DNR will not consider it an adequate access with less parking spaces. She said that according to Tim Smalley, Boat Safety Specialist with the DNR, this is not the maximum for capacity, but the minimum allowed for the DNR to con- sider is an adequate access. She said that as a minimum standard adopted by the Metropolitan Waters Access Task Force, DEED requires that all agencies using state or federal funds must comply. \ Mady said that the bottom line is that the City must allow at least one car/trailer parking space per 20 acres of water sur- face. Melby said Lotus Lake is well saturated with riparian homes and beachlots and most of the lots are relatively small. There are 95 homeowners right now that live on the lake, a few beachlots, and there will be more homeowners with continued . . . . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 10 development. We are talking 100 riparian owners plus all of the other activity from the beachlots. Relative to its size, Lotus Lake is much more saturated than Minnewashta or Christmas Lakes. Some kind of consideration has to be given to this. Lynch said that consideration will be given to that, but cannot be in the form of preventing outside persons from using the lake. Sosin said that the number of boats could be restricted. Lynch said that parking availability could be limited, but not the number of lake users. McKay stated that he felt the same question had been discussed over and over, and that the Commission needed to decide what to do with this item. McKay made a motion to table any action on this item until further information could be gathered. Boyt seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. Lynch stated that he wanted to find out if the law specifically means that access users cannot be required to park in the pro- vided parking area, or if this is simply Wheeler's interpreta- tion. He also wanted to know if there is an open parking space, no matter how many boats have been launched, does the City have to continue to allow access? He stated that he was looking for a legal yes or no answer. Mady moved to direct staff to ask the City attorney to investi- gate three items: 1. The legality of restricting car/trailer parking on the streets adjacent to the boat access and park. 2. The possibility of placing a horsepower restriction on the lake with the exception of boats with a city permit allowing larger motors. 3. The legality of requiring people to park in the pro- vided parking lot after launching their boat or limiting the number of boats entering the lake, regardless of the parking spaces available. Rosenwald seconded the motion which carried unanimously. . Karjalahti said that he would like to see the City approach the DNR about restocking Lotus Lake again. Lynch asked staff to check to see if there were any procedures necessary to get them going on that. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 11 . Conservation Easement for Chanhassen Vista Proposed Development Sietsema said that the development contract was reviewed and approved by the City Council the previous night. She said that she included the easement only to inform the Commission of it's content and required no action by the Commission. She said that if changes were desired, a recommendation would be in order. Boyt said that the easement had been passed by the City Council but in different form. She said that she did not attend the meeting herself, however she received a phone call from Jay Johnson saying that the City staff and Attorney decided that we could not have the trail through the easement due to liability. She said that after the Commission had been assured by the City Engineer and City Manager that we would be able to have a trail anywhere we want, we are now limited to stay within the 952 con- tour line. Lynch asked where it would infringe the trail. Boyt said that the Commission had not determined that yet, but the reason we decided that we would not recommend purchasing the slo- pes was because we had been assured that we could incorporate a trail along those slopes in our park plan. She said that she did not feel that staff has represented the Park and Recreation Commission's recommendations as they knew that we wanted a trail. . She suggested that the Commission ask Dale Geving to reconsider his motion on this item so that the trail could be included. Lynch asked exactly where the 952 contour line was. Sietsema brought out the Chanhassen Vista plan and showed the Commission the area in question. She stated that there would be sufficient space to put in a trail within that area. Boyt said that the Commission's concern was with the wildlife and that a trail too close to the water line would inhibit nesting. She said that these concerns were all expressed in the minutes. Tom Henderson, 7488 Saratoga Drive, explained that he had attended recent City Council meetings. He said that he got a little upset at the length of the meetings and the lack of con- cern the Council had for what the residents had to say. He said that he was quite disturbed by this issue because the closer the trail is to the water the more you will destroy the chance of wildlife. He said he did not believe that the City Council really took that into consideration, they just accepted what the developer had to offer. Lynch said that the Commission had received some conflicting signals as well. He said that it was suggested by Dale Geving that we ask for everything that we could get out of this develo- pment. Boyt said that it was Dale Geving that made the motion which excluded the trail. . Lynch said that the 952 contour line appeared to be at the base of the slope and suggested that we would not want to put a trail . . . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 12 any further up on that slope. Boyt said that the Commission had talked about putting a trail up along the north side by the big old tree. Lynch indicated that that would be unfortunate to loose. Boyt said that what she is upset about is the fact that the staff, after assuring the Commission that a trail could be included in the plan, then changed their mind without informing us so that we could reconsider our recommendation. She said that staff has met with the developer to help them move this project along, but did not meet with the Commission to inform us of the change. McKay said that the only way to have avoided something like this would have been to ask that the easement be drawn and brought back to us. Boyt said that she was certain that that was the case. Mady said that no matter what is said here, unless we go to the City Council meetings and express ourselves, the Council will go ahead and do what they want to. McKay expressed that we are an advisory commission and we have no power except to do that. Lynch item. sider trail asked the Commission what they wanted to do about this Boyt said that she would like to ask Dale Geving to recon- his motion approving the contract agreement so that the could be included. Sietsema said that she had not attended the City Council meeting the previous night and had not been informed of any changes. She said that she was not at all sure that the easement excluded trails as it is written. Boyt said that it was her understanding that the City Attorney recommended that the City avoid having trails on property that did not belong to them due to the poten- tial liability. Lynch asked if this is the case, how does it affect our other trail easements that are on private property. Mady said that we need to get an understanding from the attorney if this is supposed to be what will happen from now on with trails. Does this mean the City will have to purchase every bit of land we want to have a trail on? Sietsema said that she would check into this matter and find out what happened. She said that she would talk to the City Manager and have him call Lynch and she would foreward the City Council minutes to the Commission. EAGLE SCOUT PROJECT, STEVE WHITE Steve White, 8104 Dakota Avenue, was present to discuss his pro- posed Eagle Scout Project. He stated that he would like to construct a stairway up the hill to the observation deck at Chanhassen Pond Park. The stairs would be constructed with railroad ties and filled with crushed limestone rock. The hill Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 13 . is approximately 342 feet long with a rise of approximately 28.5 feet. White stated that he would organize the workers to complete the job. Lynch stated that he talked with Dale Gregory, Park Foreman who stated that the walkway portion will be blacktopped to the por- tion where this project would begin. A culvert will also be installed. Sietsema stated that she had spoken with the City Engineer who was concerned about loaning City equipment to complete this pro- ject. White explained that they could possibly complete the pro- ject just using shovels. There will be a lot of digging required and he estimates that it will take 5 hours per set. White further stated that he will be using Scouts from his troop and other troops, any residents he can recruit, and he will be asking the churches for some help. Most of the work will be completed on weekends. White would like to develop work teams that would install one set of stairs per weekend. He has not decided how many people he would need yet as he is waiting to see what kind of response he gets from citizens. The project will be started at the bottom of the hill and go to the top. Lynch suggested that a roto-tiller might be of some help in preparing the site. . White stated that he would like to get the project going as soon as possible and have most of the materials ordered by the end of the month. He is hoping to complete the project before the first snow. Lynch stated that he would also like to see a bridge built over the stream in the park and that would possibly be another Scout project. Lynch asked White how he planned to get the crushed limestone to the site. White stated that although there was a "no motorized vehicle" sign on the path, he was hoping that a truck could make the delivery. Sietsema suggested that he work with Dale Gregory on that item. McKay asked if the money for this project would come out of the Park and Recreation Commission budget. Sietsema stated that the funds would come out of the Capital Improvement Program which currently has approximately $31,000. Lynch stated that he asked a landscape architect what a project like this would cost if it were completed under a contract and . he stated it would be $12,000. . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 14 Robinson moved to recommend that the City Council allocate up to $3,000 from Park and Recreation Capital Improvement Funds for completion of a stairway at Chanhassenpond Park. McKay seconded the motion. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Chaparral Homeowner's Request for Barrier between Park and Private Property Sietsema said that Lydia Porter, 7217 Pontiac Circle, had con- tacted her to complain about people trespassing on her property to get ot Meadow Green Park. She said that park users were parking along Pontiac Circle and walking across her yard to get to field #2 as this was a shorter distance to walk than if they parked in the parking lot. Sietsema said that she and Don Ashworth had met with Mrs. Porter's son to discuss this and it was suggested that a fence be installed along the propery line. She said that a 350' fence would cost approximately $2450 and recommended that it be included in the 1987 Capital Improvement Program. . Lynch said if that if the fence did not go all the way along the property line, would people just park further down the street and walk in? Sietsema said that at that point it becomes the same distance as it would be to walk from the parking lot. McKay asked if there was a problem with parking in the lot - is there a need for additional parking? Sietsema said she did not believe the parking area was getting filled, but that people were trying to cut down the walking distance. She said that it is a 30 car lot and parking is allowed along the street at the park entrance. Mady asked if there was any place else in the City where we put up a fence along the property line. Rosenwald said that he bor- dered the Chanhassen Pond Park and he is the only one on the street who does not have a fence along the property line. Mady said that there are a lot of parks in Minneapolis and he could not think of one that has a fence between the park and private property, put up by the City. . Lynch asked who the trespassers are. Sietsema said that mostly softball players from what she has understood. She said that most practices take place at Meadow Green Park because once the season is underway Lake Ann Park is used for games. She said that practices were scheduled through her office. Mady said that he hated to see a fence be put up. He suggested restricting parking during certain hours of the day, or other things. He asked if all the people along the park property line wanted a fence there. Sietsema said that she was told the people Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 15 . at the north end of the west edge did not want a fence, but she had not contacted all of them to find out. McKay said that if we are going to fence, we should do so on a philisophical basis. If we fence to restrict access then we should fence all the way down. If we fence only part way we may have a problem further down the line next year. Mady said that this seemed to be a softball problem and could be dealt with by informing the players. He said that parking signs could be put up. He said that there are trespass laws that could take care of this. There are other things that could be done so that we do not have to spend $2450 on fencing. McKay said that people worry about retaliation in reporting people and we should have a philisophical base to make this determination. We should consider the number of neighbors who want this fence and he felt the request should come from more than one source. He said that if this is a general neighborhood nuisance, then we have an obligation to do something. Lynch directed staff to write to this party and thank them for bringing this item to our attention. He said that the letter should relay that we will investigate the problem and inform the . softball teams they are not to trespass to get to the park. Sietsema said that because this is a request a motion was in order as it will be going to City Council. McKay suggested that we should cover all bases when sending a recommendation to the City Council. He said that we should recommend denial or else it should encompass all properties impacted by the park. Lynch said that if a person has a problem with a neighbor, they do not require the neighbor to put up a fence, they put up their own fence. Mady suggested that the Commission direct staff to draft a letter to the homeowners' associations and ask them to find out if all the people want a fence there. He suggested that we restrict parking in the street. Sietsema said that that would become a problem when people had company and needed the to park in the street. Mady suggested that the associations look at that too. Rosenwald moved to recommend denial of request to install fencing along the property line at Meadow Green Park pending further investigation and consultation with the Chaparral Homeowners' Associations for alternate solutions. The motion was seconded by . McKay and carried unanimously. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5,1986 Page 16 . NORTH LOTUS LAKE PARK GRADING PROJECT Sietsema said that earlier this year the Park and Recreation Commission and City Council had reviewed and approved a master park plan for the park on the north side of Lotus Lake. She said that the City Engineer, Bill Monk, is prepared to begin the grading of the park this fall if Capital Improvement funds are allocated. Sietsema indicated that once the grading was done, the rest of the development could be done in-house as funds became available. McKay moved to recommend that the City allocate $15,000 of the Capital Improvement Fund 410 for the grading project at North Lotus Lake Park. The motion was seconded by Rosenwald and carried unanimously. Commissioner Presentations McKay said that he has the feeling that we are neglected by the City Council, but perhaps we are not fulfilling the obligation that others see for us. He asked if it was intended that we set up a plan for the revision of the parks and trails, or is this to be done by staff and brought back for our reaction, or are we to meet with neighborhood groups, or how is this to proceed? . Sietsema said that Dale Geving has suggested that a park plan committee be formed to come up with a park plan that would include residents, staff, commissioners and possibly himself. She said that we have consultants working on the revision and updating of the current Comprehensive Plan. Part of this process will include the updating of the existing Recreation Section as well as the development of a comprehensive trail plan. She said that staff has been directed by the City Council to proceed with this process. Sietsema said that Mark Koegler is the consultant working on this project. She said that Koegler is working on the Planning and Land Use Sections now and is scheduled to begin the Recreation Section in September. She said that the Planning Section will include projections on when and where development is anticipated to take place. This will enable us to base our determinations on where park/open space can be anticipated, then when the develop- ment plan comes in we know what to ask for in terms of park dedi- cation or the dedication of fees. . Lynch said he would be interested in seeing what we can do with the park land that we have. He said that the City should be in a position to do something with existing parkland. McKay said that he would like to see a schedule for this updating process. He said that if we are entering in a contract with Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 \ Page 17 . someone to do this, then there has to be a sketch plan of events. He said that there should be a plan so that when the Commission gets the packet they know how things will proceed. He suggested that there should be a plan so that we have an idea of what Chanhassen will look like when it is completely developed. Lynch said that we really do not know what will happen with deve- lopment. He suggested that what was being asked for was a work schedule for the updating process. Sietsema said that the con- sultant and the City Planner are currently working on Planning and Land Use and will be working on Recreation in September. She said that the Commission could expect to see Koegler in September with an orientation of how we will proceed with the process. Robinson said that what is being requested is that potential park/open space be highlighted and when it becomes available to the City the process be outlined. McKay said that in the fifties he was involved in projecting where property would become available and populations that schools would need to be prepared to serve, for the whole City. He said that he has been involved in governmental planning pro- cesses and someone sits down ahead of time and lays out what . their time line for completion is so that people can plan on making decisions and get the proper community involvement. He said that obviously a plan is only a guideline. Sietsema said that the Comprehensive Plan is the same type of plan as McKay was talking about. She said it outlines what should be done in each area of the City in regards to park/open space. McKay asked why we are studying this if it is already in place. Sietsema said that it is over five years old and needs to be updated. He asked when it was to be updated. Sietsema said the Recreation Section will be worked on in September. McKay said that he would like to see the consultant come in and outline his plan, stating when he plans to have a report back to the Commission and what he was going to do and study. Lynch said that in the past, timelines for projects done by consultants have been real vague. He said that the Commission does not necessarily need to see the project completed immediately, but we should be told up front when to expect to see it. He said that he would like to know what it costs, what we are getting, and when we are getting it. Sietsema said that the Commission could expect to see the con- sultant for such a break down in September or October. Lynch said that he was very excited about getting the trails together as we we are starting to have enough of them to get some where. He asked if we have an easement along the creek between . . . . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes August 5, 1986 Page 18 Chanhassen Vista and the development just above, Triple Crown Estates. Sietsema said that we do have a trail easement along the creek. Lynch asked where that trail comes out. Sietsema said that it comes out on the east side of the holding pond. Lynch said that he would check that out. Mady said that he was concerned about the steep banks around the outside of he hockey rinks. He said he was walking there and felt that there was a potential danger of someone falling between the bank and boards as there is no fence there. He asked staff to look into putting something along the banks make that safer. Robinson moved to adjourn the meeting. The motin was seconded by Mady and carried unanimously. Prepared by: Lori Sietsema Park and Recreation Coordinator CITY OF CHAHHASSEH "7 ...) _. . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinato..pr ( August 28, 1986 ~ DATE: SUBJ: Update on Park and Recreation Related Items North Lotus Lake Grading Project: The City Council approved allocation of up to $15,000 of the 1986 Capital Improvement Project Fund 410 for the grading project at North Lotus Lake Park. This is consistent with the Park and Recreation Commission's recommendation. City Engineer, Bill Monk, will be proceeding . with this project in early September. Eagle Scout Project: The City Council approved the allocation of up to $3,000 for the Eagle Scout Project proposed by Steve White, as recommended by the Park and Recreation Commission. The pro- ject involves the construction of a stairway at Chanhassen Pond Park. Mr. White is in the process of purchasing materials now and it is anticipated that construction will begin during the first part of September. South Lotus Lake Boat Access: I have forwarded the Commission's questions regarding the boat access to the City Attorney, It is expected that I will hear back from him by September 12th. Attached please find a letter sent to Kim Elverum, Boat and Water Safety Coordinator for DNR, regarding the question on requiring a permit for motors in excess of 25 horsepower. Mr. Elverum reviews the water surface zoning applications and I felt that his remarks would be helpful. Chaparral Homeowners Request for Fence: Attached please find a letter sent to the homeowners associations in Chaparral regarding the request for a fence along the west property line at Meadow Green Park. The responses to this letter will be brought back to the Park and Recreation Commission at the October 7th meeting. . ... I I J /' J UiJ./. r... ~".f'.' -l :r:r !"AI'l"./,,11} CITY 0 F CHAHHASSEH 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 August 28, 1986 Mr. Kim Elverum DNR Boat and Water Coordinator 500 Lafayette Road P.O. Box 46 St. Paul, MN 55155-4046 Dear Mr. Elverim: . As you know per our recent telephone conversation, the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission is reviewing operational proce- dures for the Lotus Lake Boat Access. The lake residents are very concerned that a drastic increase in lake usage will occur when the access opens which will be environmentally detrimentai to the lake. They have requested that the City investigate possible ways of legally restricting the number of boats entering the lake or motor size. As I mentioned on the phone, it was suggested that a restriction be placed on the lake limiting the motor size to 25 horsepower. This restriction would apply to all boats on the lake except those with a special permit which could be purchased at Chanhassen City Hall. I would like you to please respond in writing as I understand that such a restriction would reviewal in the Water Surface Zoning process. Recreation Commission will continue to review October meeting. It would be very helpful to by September 26th. to this suggestion be subject to your The Park and this item at their have your comments Your input and insight on this matter is very much appreciated. Sincerely, ~M~ . Lori Sietsema Park and Recreation Coordinator LS:k oJ/4t h,lJf n t A::.;)..... CITY OF CHAHHASSEH . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 August 28, 1986 Mr. Roger Karjalahti Lotus Lake Homeowners Association 7413 Frontier Trail Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Mr. Karjalahti: This letter is to inform you and the Lotus Lake Homeowners Association that the Lotus Lake Boat Access operational proce- dures will not appear on the Park and Recreation Commission agenda until October 7th. Enclosed please find the minutes from the August meeting . regarding this item. At that meeting, the Commission tabled any action pending further. investigation and directed staff to for- ward a number of questions to the City Attorney. I have done so and am expecting a reply by mid-September. I will be sending you an agenda for the next meeting by October 3rd. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at 937-1900. Sincerely, ~~ t.'~~ ~~ Si~ma Park and Recreation Coordinator LS:k . a.ur-Jlhll:~', ~4. :J. ;;' ...J CITY 0 F CHARHASSEH 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 August 28, 1986 Mr. Dan Sochko, President Cimarron Homeowners Association 7252 Pontiac Circle Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Mr. Sochko: . The Park and Recreation Commission recently received a request to install a fence along the western property line of Meadow Green Park. It seems that a resident who lives along the property line is having problems with people parking along Pontiac Circle and walking across their property to gain access to the park. Upon review of this request, the Commission was uncertain that this was a solution everyone along the property line would favor. The Commission has directed staff to contact the Homeowners Associations in the area for your input. They are asking that you poll the members of your association and respond as to whether you are in favor of a fence or not. It would be very helpful if your response could be received by this office no later than September 25th. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me at 937-1900. Your input is very much appreciated. Thank you. Sincerely, ~M~ Lori Sietsema Park and Recreation Coordinator LS:k . CITY OF CHANHASSEN '-/ . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5q317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation coordinat~.\ August 27, 1986 ~ DATE: SUBJ: MRPA Annual Fall Conference The Minnesota Recreation and Parks Association will hold their 1986 Annual Fall Conference on September 24-26. The 1986 Budget has allocated funds to send two commissioners to such. It is not . required that any members attend, however, money is available should anyone be interested. . . CITY OF CHARHASSER s 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: August 28, 1986 SUBJ: 1987 Capital Improvement Program . The 1987 budgetary process is currently underway. It is the Park and Recreation Commission's responsibility in this process to submit a Capital Improvement Program budget. This is a 410 fund which involves projects related to park acquisition and develop- ment. The 1986 Budget allocated $35,000 for the Capital Improvement Program last year and the Park and Recreation Commission did not identify projcts for that fund. As you may recall, the Commission wanted to be able to handle projects as they were requested and rollover a portion of that fund into 1987 to handle larger projects. This year, staff is recommending that the Commission outline pro- jects to be completed in 1987. This will give staff some initial direction and enable the Commission to be pro-active rather than reactive. This does not mean that amendments cannot be made throughout the year if need be. Dale Gregory, Park Maintenance Superintendent and I have discussed projects listed on the following page which we feel should be included in the 1987 Capital Improvement Program. . PROPOSED 1987 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM BUDGET PARK AND RECREATION . Lake Ann Park Swimming Dock Replacement Legion Park Shelter (Misc. finishing touches) $ 1,300.00 2,500.00* Lake Susan Park Fishing Dock Volleyball Court Sign 1,300.00 300.00 300.00 Greenwood Shores \,\tLi TetlQt Equipment Volleyball Court Park Sign 3,000.00 300.00 300.00 North Lotus Lake Park Park Sign Ballfield/Parking Construction (in-house) Tennis Court 300.00 1,000.00 20,000.00* South Lotus Lake . Park Sign Gate House Light Fishing Dock 300.00 1,000.00 1,000.00 1,300.00 Carver Beach Tire Swing Replacement Bollard and Chain to Obstruct old Access 500.00 250.00 Bandimere Heights Soccer Field Construction (in-house) Totlot Equipment 200.00 3,000.00 Chanhassen Estates Park Upgrade Shelter 500.00 Chanhassen Pond Park Master Park Plan Development Park Development 1,000.00 2,000.00 Meadow Green Park . Totlot Equipment (Big Swings) 750.00 . . . Proposed 1987 Capital Improvement Program Page 2 Herman Field Park Development Miscellaneous '2,-0 Tables/Benches (~) Trail Development t1(i\b *Indicates an approximate amount. on Tuesday evening. 5,000.00 1/Doo .- -4-.. 2 e a ;-0 0 5,000.00 f 250-- 56,600.00 I will have a more exact figure