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1986 11 04 Agenda . . . AGENDA PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 1986, 7:00 p.m. CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE 1. Call to order 2. Approve minutes of October 7, 1986. ~LLL ~ 4. Review Park Dedication Fee Formula For Rural Development. 3. Review Rough Draft of the Park and Recreation Needs Survey. 5. Review 1987 Capital Improvement Program Budget Request. 6. Herman Field Update. 7. Update on City Council Action on Park Related Items. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes October 7,1986 . A regular meeting of the Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Acting Chairman, Wallace McKay, at 7:45 p.m. Members present were Wallace McKay, Sue Boyt, Charlie Robbins, and Jim Mady. Members absent were Mike Lynch, Curt Robinson, and Mike Rosenwald. Lori Sietsema was also present. MINUTES Upon reviewal, Robbins moved to accept the minutes of September 2, 1986 as presented. Mady seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. PROPOSAL FOR CHANHASSEN COMMUNITY CENTER Brad Johnson, Chanhassen Downtown Development Associates (CHADDA), was present to discuss the Chanhassen Community Center proposal. Johnson said that they had included the details of the proposal and the center in the Commission packets. He said that basically he was present to go over those details and to get the input of the Park and Recreation Commission on this issue as they would have a feeling for the community's recreational needs. Johnson said that this type of project does cost money and the taxpayers would, in all likelihood, end up paying for it. He said that we have to perceive over time whether the community feels there is a real need for this or not. . Johnson explained that CHADDA was asked by the City to develop a plan for downtown and go through the process of implementing it. He said that currently they are in the implementation process. The primary purpose of the downtown concept was brought about because of the lack of community and there is no commercial base in the community. Therefore, the residents have to go outside of the City to shop and dollars spent do not stay within this com- munity. He said that the tax base in Chanhassen has suffered somewhat due to the lack of any downtown area. He went on to explain the existing plan. Johnson said that it was felt that a community center would draw people from other areas of the City to the retail area. The existing ice arena and the bowling center initiated this idea. The key element was to try to create a community central to the City that will last a long time and create development around it. Rich Thomasgard, CHADDA, was present to discuss the details of the center. He began by describing the proposed facilities in the center. Half of the structure exists where the main ice arena would be, the other half would be added on, bringing the . total to 28,000 square feet. This arena would be used for youth hockey, high school hockey, adult hockey leagues, open and figure ~ . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes October 7, 1986 Page 3 McKay said that we should not forget that people will drive 10 miles east before they will drive one mile west. He said that it would be a mistake not to cultivate the area to the west. Sietsema said that no action was required by the Commission, but that it would be helpful for the City Council to hear any com- ments or personal feelings that the Commission may have on this item. She said that the Council will have to have a fairly strong feeling that this is a community need before asking anyone to serve on a committee that may require 100 volunteer hours. Boyt said that the Commission does not really know how the com- munity feels and that a survey should be done to determine such. Robbins said that he personally endorsed this proposal and was aware of all of the work ahead before it will become a reality. Boyt said that she personally endorsed the proposal as well and felt that it was needed in Chanhassen. Mady said he was in support of the proposal as well. No motion was made. . Lotus Lake Boat Access Operational Procedures Sietsema said that the Park and Recreation Commission reviewed and tabled action on this item at the August 5th meeting. Upon reviewal, the Commission felt that a number of points needed further research before a recommendation could be forwarded to the City Council. Sietsema said she researched the following points and received the following information: 1. The legality of restricting car/trailer parking on the streets adjacent to the boat access and park. Roger Knutson, City Attorney, has stated that the City Council has the authority to impose parking restriction in this area. 2 . The legality of requiring access users to park in the pro- vided parking lot or limiting the number of boats entering the lake. . Mr. Knutson states that this would violate the grant agreement the City has entered into with DEED upon receiving LAWCON funds for the development of the boat access. Cindy Wheeler, DEED, states that this requirement would be con- sidered discriminatory which would violate state law. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes October 7, 1986 . Page 5 Mady said that although the agencies came out very strong against the restrictions, their reasons did not address the environmental issues that the Commission had expressed concern about. Sietsema said that the Commission did not voice those concerns until the September meeting. She said that the letter to Mr. Elverum was sent following the August meeting with those minutes. Boyt said that she felt the agencies viewed the restriction as a way for the lake homeowners to protect their lake from non- riparian lake users. She said that the Commission is not con- cerned with keeping people off of the lake, but are concerned with keeping up the quality of the lake. Mady said that the lake system is not deep enough to handle a high number of large boats speeding around the lake. He said that he did not feel that the DNR and DEED understood the fragi- lity of the lake. Sietsema said that these agencies are aware of of the lake features, but are unable to restrict some and not others. Melby asked about speed limits on the lake, safety should be a factor. Sietsema said that there are speed limits on Lotus Lake. She said that there is a "slow no wake" limit along the shores and 40 mph limit in the middle. Melby said that it was not . enforced. McKay said that perhaps the ordinance should be changed to limit the horsepower on the lake. Melby said that that may be tough to get through, but a speed limit should definitely be considered. Mady moved to ask the homeowners associations on Lotus Lake to make recommendations to the Park and Recreation Commission con- cerning the speed limit/horse power for Lotus Lake that would be equally applicable to all Lotus Lake users. Boyt seconded the motion which carried unanimously. Sietsema said that motor restrictions would be a different issue than operational procedures. She suggested that the Commission make a recommendation regarding the operational procedures so as not to confuse the two issues. Mady moved to recommend that the City comply with the standards set by DEED as they are the adminstrators of the grants which we received for the development of the access, as follows: - To keep the access open until the parking area is filled, at which time the access would be closed to prevent parking problems. - To keep 12 car/trailer parking spaces free for access users. . . . . ~ Park and Recreation Commission Minutes October 7, 1986 Page 7 McKay said that a short length of fence would only move the problem further down the street. Mr. Porter said that the backstop is not visible from anyhwere else along the street. Mady said that a 3 foot fence would not be high enough and that this would probably be moving the problem because people already know that the backstop is there. He said that he was not in favor of fencing off parks to restrict access. He said that he felt there were other alternatives to solving the problem than putting up a fence. He suggested writing letters to softball teams to inform them that this is not a park access and no parking signs along the street. Robbins said that a fence would not solve the problem. He said that people will just keep walking around it. Boyt asked if the Porter's could put up their own fence. Mrs. Porter said that the homeowners association would not allow it. Sietsema said that she had been unaware of the problem until the softball season was over. She said that she would be able to inform the softball players at the beginning of the season that this is not a park access and using it as such would not be tolerated. She said that in the past, educating the players at the beginning of the season has worked very well. She said that she schedules softball practices on those fields. If a problem is reported she will be able to check who was scheduled and take care of it immediately the following day. She suggested that this perhaps would take care of the brunt of the problem. Robbins moved to table the item until the next meeting, pending further information. The motion died for lack of a second. Sietsema suggested recommending denial and having staff educate the softball players. She said if the problem persists next spring once the park is busy, the Porter's could bring back their request at that time. Mady moved to recommend the request for a fence in Meadow Green Park be denied, and to direct staff to inform the softball players that this is not a park entrance and using it as such will not be tolerated. Boyt seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. Mrs. Porter felt that this was reasonable and stated that if the problem continued next year she would indeed be back. Orientation to the Comprehensive Plan Updating Process Mark Koegler was present to discuss the Comprehensive Plan Recreation Section updating process. He began by giving a brief Park and Recreation Commission Minutes October 7, 1986 Page 9 . Koegler said that the plan recommendations will corne out of all of this, focusing on the changes mentioned and how the city wishes to meet those changes. Ultimately the Commission will take more of a nuts and bolts look at the funding that will be available and prioritize the improvements that need to be made, which will be translated into the Capital Improvement Program. There are specific issues that input is needed from the Commission, in addition to the general framework of the plan itself. Policies and goals have probably changed since the ori- ginal plan was done. One of these issues is the trail issue. The previous plan treated trails rather lightly. The Commission has received a trail request from the West Minnewashta area which has brought this issue to the forefront. It was determined that taking a detailed look at trail needs in the community would be a logical item to be included in the Comprehensive Plan update. Koegler said there are a number of factors to be considered when looking at trails and where they should go. Schools, neighborhoods, populations are all factors to be considered. Also, what level of use will the facilities get. The cost aspect is an important factor to consider as well. Not only the initial construction costs, but the long term maintainance costs as well. How can . these things potentially be funded and what are the appropriate levels in terms of funding to keep the system running once it is in place. Where trails are to be located can be a big issue. Should they go along the property lines in the rear of the lots or should they be be in the front adjacent to the right of way. Once these decisions are made comes the implementation. What priorities would you place on certain trail segments, how will you corne up with that list of priorities and what criteria will you review. And finally putting the top priority items into the Capital Improvement Program. Koegler said that, as mentioned earlier, a survey would be an excellent means by which to gain insight from the community. He said that there are a number of ways to process a survey and suggested an intern from the College of St. Thomas in the MBA department. He said he was open to any questions, comments or input and said that tonight he simply wanted to set the stage for the process. Boyt said that there was to be a certain amount of commercial development in the City and asked if the City could request that a certain amount of these developments be set aside for green space. She also said that because Chanhassen is developing so rapidly, she would be in favor of asking for park space even if it were only small parcels. She said that if we do not ask for it now we will not get it. . ~ . Park and Recreation Commission Minutes October 7, 1986 Page 11 Sietsema said that if an off-street trail was being sought along Kerber, it would seem logical to put it on the east side of Kerber along the School and City property. She said that pedestrians coming through the trails in Chan Vista will come right through the School property and it would not seem right to cross the street above the School property. Mady moved to recommend that the City request an off-street bike trail, shown as a Class 1 Bike Trail in the Recreation Section of the Comprehensive Plan, along the north side West 78th Street. The Commission feels this to be an important link to the Lake Ann Bike Trail. Mady recommended in his motion that this trail ease- ment should be in addition to the required green space in the development and that no reduction in park dedication fees be allowed. The motion was seconded by Robbins and carried unani- mously. Lake Park Estates Site Plan Review . Sietsema said that the proposed development was located on the southwest side of Lake Riley. The proposal involves the sub- division of 134 acres into 42 single family lots with the average lot size 2, acres. She said that the development included a 1.1 acre beachlot, a 2 acre private park and is located outside the Urban Service Area. For these reasons Sietsema recommended that park dedication fees be accepted in lieu of park land. Boyt said that she did not feel that the private park area shown would meet the park needs in this area. Mady said that park needs would be minimized due to the large lot sizes. Boyt said that there will be developments like this and we should acquire parkland now before there is no land to acquire. McKay said that he did not like to promote private parks as they tend to create hard feelings when people outside the area want to use them. McKay asked if there was any public access on Lake Riley. Sietsema said that the City of Chanhassen does not, but there is a public access in Eden Prairie. . Boyt said that she would like to ask for 10 acres of park land. Sietsema said that this development would have the potential to have a population of about 140 people. She said that 10 acres for 140 people seemed like a lot to ask. Sietsema pointed out that the Comprehensive Plan has set a park standard for neigh- borhood parks of 5 acres per 1000 people. Boyt countered that this would not be a park just for this develop- ment, but would serve neighboring developments as well. Boyt moved to recommend that the City request a minimum of 10% of the developable land for public park purposes in lieu of park Park and Recreation Commission Minutes October 7, 1986 . Page 13 Robbins moved to adjourn the meeting. The motion was seconded by boyt and carried unanimously. Prepared by Lori Sietsema Park and Recreation Coordinator . . Chanhassen Park and Recreation Survey 3 This questionnaire was developed by the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission to survey the needs and wants of Chanhassen residents in regard to park facilities and recreation programs. ~ PLEASE COMPLETE THIS QUESTIONNAIRE AND MAIL OR DROP IT OFF AT CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Considering the park activities that the members of 1/4 mile (3 blocks) ____ 1 mile (12 blocks your household most often participate in, at what point ____ 1/2 mile (6 blocks) Over 1 mile would a neiqhborhood park be beyond walking distance? 3/4 mile (9 blocks) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. At what point would you consider a community park beyond accessibility? 2 miles 5 miles 8 miles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Please check the following ____ Open Skating Rink ____ Lighted Ballfields ____ Hockey Rink facilities that would be unnecessary or excessive ____ Multi-Purpose Bldg. Restrooms ____ Backstop ____ Play Equipment ____ Open Air Shelter Tennis Court in a neiqhborhood park. ____ Open, Grassy Field ____ Lighted Court/Rink ____ Improved Ballfield ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4a. Is there a city park located close enough to your home that your household would identify it as your "neighborhood park"? ____ yes no b. If yes, identify the park by name or location. c. What changes could be made to this park to better serve the needs of your household? 5a. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~ Would your'household use trails in Chanhassen? If so, which means of travel? Number your top Walk ____ Jog Horseback Roller Skate --yes -flo three choices in order of how often you ____ Bicycle CC-Ski Snowmobile Other do each activity. b. Where would trails for most of the above activities be best located? ____ Adjacent to streets ____ Within the boulevard along streets _____ Along lot lines, not streets d. Would you be willing to pay higher taxes for a city-wide trail system? _____ yes If so, how much per year? ____ $50-100 _____$100-150 $150-200 $200-250 no ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Over $250 6. How often would your household use each of the following facilities if they were located in Chanhassen? Please rank accordingly: 1 = never 2 = 1-5 times a year 3 = once a month " = once a week 5 = daily ~ . Adult Softball Fields Youth Baseball Fields Adult Baseball Fields Tennis Courts rootball Fields Soccer Fields Open Ice Skatinq Rink Outdoor Hockey Rink Indoor Ice Rink Playqround Equipment Indoor Volleyball Sand Court Volleyball Nature Study Slidinq Hill Grassy, Open Space Picnic Area Swimminq Beach Pedestrian Trails Snowmobile Trails Cross Ctry Ski Trail GYmnasium 1 2 3 4 51 I I , I II H-H CITY 0 F CHANHASSEN 5" . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator DATE: October 28, 1986 SUBJ: Recommended 1987 Capital Improvement Program At the September meeting, the Commission prepared a Capital Improvement Program and recommended its adoption in the 1987 budget. The City Council has not reviewed this recommendation as of yet as I wanted to bring it back to you for reconsideration. The CIP that was recommended includes $25,000 for trail develop- . mente Staff feels that this request may be premature as we do not know how much the total for trail development will be. The trail plan is currently underway and cost estimates have not been looked at yet. Once the plan has been completed, the Commission will have to look at how it should be financed (i.e. bond issue, CIP, etc.) It is the recomme~dation of this office to delete the $25,000 trail development request until a cost estimate for the entire project is available. . . . ['. L 'Park and Recreation Commission Minutes September 2, 1986 Page 5 South Lotus Lake Park Sign Gate House Light Fishing Dock (w/railings> 300.00 1,000.00 1,000.00 1,300.00 Carver Beach Tire Swing Replacement Bollard and Chain to Obstruct old Access 500.00 250.00 Bandimere Heights Soccer Field Construction (in-house) Totlot Equipment 200.00 3,000.00 Chanhassen Estates Park Upgrade Shelter 500.00 Chanhassen Pond Park Master Park Plan Development Park Development 1,000.00 2,000.00 Meadow Green Park Totlot Equipment (Big Swings) Tennis Courts 750.00 20,000.00 Herman Field Park Development 5,000.00 Miscellaneous Tables/Benches (20) Trail Development 7,000.00 25,000.00 $108,000.00 The Commission wished to note that park development has slacked in recent years. Due to housing starts and the increased interest (park development requests), the Commission feels that these pro- jects need to be addressed. The motion was seconded by Boyt and carried unanimously. .CITY OF CHANHASSEH .~ ~ . 690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN. MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 October 30, 1986 Mr. Thomas Klingelhutz 8551 Tigua Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Torn: The City Council met on Monday evening and awarded the Lake Ann Park ballfield lighting project bid to Collin's Electric. The bid contract is set up so that construction may begin this fall or, should weather become a factor, next spring. Realizing the importance of getting work started, the contractor has indicated that they plan to get as much of the project completed this fall . as possible. The City is currently getting an estimate on running electric from ballfield #1 to the Legion shelter building. If at all possible, we would like the Legion to coordinate the construction of the shelter with the installation of lights. Getting the footings poured and the conduit for the electrical in this fall will help to alleviate some of the damage that will occur from heavy trucks next spring. If it is at all possible, I would like to meet with you. I will call you early next week to see what your schedule looks like. Sincerely, LL Don Ashworth City Manager LS:DA:k . .