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PC Minutes 11-17-09 CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 17, 2009 Chairwoman Larson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Debbie Larson, Mark Undestad, Denny Laufenburger, Dan Keefe, Kevin Dillon, and Tom Doll MEMBERS ABSENT: Kathleen Thomas STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director; Sharmeen Al-Jaff, Senior Planner; and Alyson Fauske, Assistant City Engineer PUBLIC HEARING: CHANHASSEN STATION: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT AND SITE PLAN APPROVAL WITH VARIANCES FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A PARKING RAMP TH ON PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF WEST 78 STREET, WEST OF GREAT PLAINS BOULEVARD, AND NORTH OF THE TWIN CITIES AND WESTERN RAILROAD, CHANHASSEN TRANSIT STATION. APPLICANT: WALKER PARKING CONSULTANTS, SOUTHWEST TRANSIT, AND CITY OF CHANHASSEN. OWNERS: BLOOMBERG COMPANIES, INC. AND CITY OF CHANHASSEN, PLANNING CASE NO. 09-18. Sharmeen Al-Jaff presented the staff report on this item. Larson: Want to start Mark? Undestad: Yeah, just a couple little ones here. On the drive aisles, is it the drive aisle variance on the ramp itself or is it the road coming in from Market? Al-Jaff: It’s on the actual ramp. Undestad: The ramp itself? Okay. And that’s the existing conditions that they have in the Eden Prairie facility? Al-Jaff: Actually the Eden Prairie facility has narrower aisles than what we have here in Chanhassen. Than what’s being proposed in Chanhassen. Undestad: And so the drive lane that will be connecting out to, out by the Dinner Theater, then that’s, stays at our wider? Al-Jaff: Correct. Anything outside the ramp will maintain existing conditions. Undestad: Okay. That’s all I got. Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Larson: Denny. Laufenburger: Sharmeen, the, let’s see I just wanted to clarify a couple things. Is this, you mentioned the sidewalk will be added. Is the cost of sidewalk identified in this document because under City of Chanhassen responsibilities I don’t see mention of a sidewalk. Al-Jaff: It is part of the street construction project. Laufenburger: Okay. Okay. Let’s see. Just bear with me Madam Chair. Larson: Okay. Laufenburger: I was concerned about a restroom but there is a restroom in the facility as it’s planned, is that correct? Al-Jaff: That’s correct. Laufenburger: Is it like on the second floor or something do you know, because I notice there’s two, it wasn’t easy for me to determine the elevation on that. Anyway, as long as it’s there I can walk up the steps to get to it if I need to. Are there any parking spaces in the present Chanhassen Dinner Theater parking that will need to be vacated as a result of the placement of the road? Do you know that? Al-Jaff: The placement of the road? No. Laufenburger: Okay. Al-Jaff: They will not. Laufenburger: Okay, so the ramp because it will be conveniently placed next to, and it will be covered, it certainly will be an attraction for those people who are coming to the Dinner Theater perhaps during inclement weather, is that correct? And they will have walking access then on the north side of the parking ramp to the Dinner Theater. Al-Jaff: That’s correct. Laufenburger: Okay. On the Market, on the let’s see. Will there be, will the turn around which is currently near Market Boulevard, will that be vacated as a result of the placement of this parking garage? You know what I mean by the turn around? It’s on the south side. Yeah. Over here on the. Aanenson: You can use your arrow, mouse there. Laufenburger: Will just in the far, in the bottom left corner there you can see there’s a turn around. 2 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Al-Jaff: Yes. Laufenburger: Will that? Al-Jaff: It’s not proposed to be vacated, no. Laufenburger: Okay. But potentially isn’t that where buses turn around right now? Is that used for. Larson: It was once. Laufenburger: It was at one time? Al-Jaff: Yes, it was once. Larson: Right. Laufenburger: But it’s not currently being used? Al-Jaff: No. Laufenburger: Okay. But there are no plans to vacate that and turn that into an equivalent of an outlot or landscaping or anything like that? Al-Jaff: Not at this time, no. Laufenburger: Thank you. That was all my questions. Thank you Madam Chair. Larson: Okay, thank you Denny. Tom, have you got a question? Doll: I was wondering what does, how many stalls are lost if you make them 9 feet wide? Fauske: Staff went and estimated based on the striping plan that was submitted. We estimated 8 stalls per level which would be the equivalent of approximately 32 stalls. Doll: And in the future has there been any discussion of the railroad ever being used for mass transit or was there thought of that happening? Would there be interconnect? You know could this be used for. Aanenson: It could be. Doll: That in the future. Aanenson: It’d be that heavy rail type. Not the light rail in the future. Yes, it could be. Doll: And are considerations being made to utilize that? It didn’t look like it in the plan. 3 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Aanenson: It could be modified but not with this plan. Doll: Okay. Are there any issues with snow removal in the front of the project? It looks like those lanes are fairly small. Aanenson: They’ve accommodated that on their site plan where the snow is actually being, probably being hauled off. The owner can talk to. Doll: No, I was just kind of, you had an island out in front here and that far south lane looks fairly small. There’s no dimension or I didn’t see any dimension or anything. Aanenson: It’s off to the west of the building. The snow removal. And it could go off to the north also. Doll: I’m talking about clearing in the front of the south side of the building. Aanenson: Oh. I’ll let the owner speak to that but I believe a lot of that’s going to also have to be trucked. Doll: Okay. And you guys have looked at as a part of the engineering how the water, runoff is going to be going to the retention pond down by Cub. There’s enough, that will work? Fauske: We believe it will Commissioner Doll. At this point there are some modifications that are required on the current drainage plan. We want to make sure that the drainage plan is adequately modeling what is coming onto the site as well as the runoff being generated from the site and that’s critical because the storm sewer’s connecting to a future city storm sewer that will be constructed with the public street segment there. Staff is confident that it will be, that we will be able to achieve our design standards because the impervious surface is not increasing significantly. It’s a minor modification. We are in a business district. A high intensity, high impervious surface area of the city and the pond behind the Cub Foods where this site will drain to, it was dredged out and increased in capacity approximately 3 years ago I believe. Doll: No further questions. Larson: Dan. Keefe: Is the roadway and the access into the ramp, I mean is that part of this request or is it just the ramp itself? And the reason why I ask, you know, I don’t know which way traffic’s flowing you know for say buses. I mean are they coming in off Great Plains? Are they running two way? Aanenson: We can let Southwest Transit talk about the whole function of that. Keefe: Okay. That would be useful. And then you know as I look at you know the access into the ramp to the Dinner Theater, I mean you’ve got some concrete barriers in the parking lot 4 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 already and you know that you’ve got to work your way around to get over into the, I mean is that something that you know is part of the plan or you know to remove those? Aanenson: Yes. Larson: Where are you speaking of Dan? Keefe: Well if you look at, you know coming off Great Plains Boulevard and you go into the, you’re trying to get into the ramp there to the Dinner, you know Dinner Theater end, you’ve got to go around these barriers, right? Or is there enough room inbetween there to make the turn inside those curb? Larson: Oh. I wonder if that will be modified? Keefe: Yeah. Yeah, as a part of the. Al-Jaff: I believe there will be enough separation. We’re talking about this movement and then into. Keefe: Yeah. I mean if you have, you know you’ve got a Dinner Theater show, you know people showing up for a 7:00 show. You’ve got 30 cars stacking up. Fauske: There are no, at this point there are no modifications that are proposed within the existing parking lot there. Currently the vehicles are able to make that turning movement and there’s quite a long driveway entrance into the parking ramp. We don’t anticipate any issues entering or exiting the ramp. Keefe: So show time you know when there’s, I don’t know how many cars show up for a dinner theater. I mean is it 30? Is it 100? I mean, and we know it’s going to work for this configuration? Fauske: I believe it will. Currently, to my knowledge, and certainly the applicant can talk a little bit more about this is, the surface lot, the existing surface lot outside the Dinner Theater is accommodating I’m assuming the majority of their customers and the parking ramp is another, another means for them to park, as Sharmeen mentioned, in case there’s inclement weather. We don’t anticipate. Keefe: So it’s not really used as a primary? Aanenson: It’s not, it’s never intended to be the primary parking. No. Keefe: Okay. Alright. Are there any issues, you know it said there was a parking study done. Is there any, been any, you know is there any potential conflict between when people might use it for transit versus when they might use it for the Dinner Theater? I mean are they going to be operating at the same time? Are we going to end up with traffic issues? Anything mention of that in the parking? 5 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Aanenson: The Dinner Theater has enough parking on it’s own. Even with it’s ancillary uses that are with it so this does provide overflow but the prime, the Dinner Theater can stand on it’s own with it’s own parking requirements. And we believe they’re offset in those peak hours and that would also include future development in that area. We do anticipate with the connectivity between Great Plains and Market Boulevard offers an opportunity for more development in the area and then we’d look at that to each project kind of, what those, the shared parking which you’ve done with other projects in the area. Where do you walk from the parking garage to the Dinner Theater? Where is the access? I mean is there a. Aanenson: You could go up the elevator and get on at grade. Keefe: And so is that over way on the east side there? I’m trying to get a sense. I mean how you would get to the Dinner Theater from the parking ramp if you were walking. Not driving into it but is there a walkway? Aanenson: Yeah, the internal stairwell. Larson: Until you get to the outside and then you’re walking on the parking lot? Al-Jaff: You will basically have to walk along. Keefe: So you’re going to cut across in front of the entranceway into the ramp? Al-Jaff: Correct, which is no different than what you have happening today. So it’s the exact same pedestrian movement. If you parked anywhere within this area you would have to walk to the main entrance into the Dinner Theater. Keefe: Yeah and I’m concerned that you know if we’ve got a lot of cars using it on a particular show you’re going to have to you know, cars are going to be going in and out of the ramp potentially and then you’ve got people walking through there. I mean is there a way to sort of accommodate you know from the safety perspective people, and/or is there potential to put an entrance on the very northeastern corner of the ramp? Pedestrian access to the ramp on the very northeastern corner of the ramp. To the Dinner Theater. Aanenson: We can look at that but that parcel’s not part of this plat so at this point we can offer that as a suggestion to the property owner. Keefe: You know on the landscaping it looks like most the landscaping’s on the south side of the ramp. Aanenson: Correct. Keefe: It looks like. You know it looks like that will be good for people who are either walking along there and/or you know in their cars. Is there a, isn’t there a berm? What is to the south of 6 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 this right now of the ramp? It’s the railroad track but then what is, it’s industrial isn’t it? The back of like Auto, isn’t there an auto, or Riley Auto or? Aanenson: Well there’s the pet store, or the animal clinic. Keefe: Right. Aanenson: The auto place, correct. Keefe: You know the one thing that just kind of struck me when I was looking at the landscaping plan is, it’s like when I look at this ramp I come in from either the west or I come in from the east and you don’t see a lot of the south side of this. Say you’re going you know landscaping is a, the better use might be on either end to the extent that it can be added. You know for screening purposes to enhance the look. I know there was some there but I was kind of saying well you know, I think over the one on 312, you know when you go out. Yeah, I mean it’s nice…kind of see that. I’m not sure you can see this as much. Just a. Al-Jaff: One of the things that was, well maybe I should. So most of the landscaping is along the south portion of the site. Keefe: Yeah. Al-Jaff: As you are driving by that will be the main elevation that you will be viewing. One of the things that we attempted to do was to enhance the architectural elevations of basically all, any elevation that can be viewed by the public has been enhanced. Landscaping can only be accommodated in this location. Aanenson: If I may add to that. Keefe: You can’t on the northwestern? Aanenson: Well we’ve got areas where we’re unloading snow. Keefe: Right. Aanenson: And then we looked at the visibility of that. We’re probably going to have another building on that side that will butt up, or somewhere close to that. There’s a potential that that could redevelop so the most visible part driving along that road, which we anticipate will you know more people that don’t want to take that left at Market may want to come up this way to take that left. Opening that up so this, and that’s also the pleasant experience for those people that are being dropped and if are waiting, also have that pleasant or that landscaping and the amenities on that side. Some of the thought that went into that. Keefe: Just jumping back to traffic then. My last point, you know and I think of a bus going through here. Are they going to be routing them to Great Plains and then cutting across there to Market? 7 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Aanenson: We’ll let Southwest go through that. Their routing system. Keefe: Alright. Alright, that’s it. Larson: Kevin. Dillon: I don’t have any questions at this time. Larson: Okay. I think I’ll save mine for the applicant so, have we got an applicant? Len Simich: We do. Larson: Okay. Len Simich: Good evening. I’m Len Simich. I’m CEO of Southwest Transit. It’s my pleasure to be here this evening with members of our team. Scott Froemming from Walker Parking. Gary Hay from Hay Dobbs, the architect and engineers on this project. We’re excited about this. This is something that’s been in the works for quite a long time. It was brought to my attention this afternoon, it was actually 2004 when we started this and we’ve, probably the biggest hurdle was getting our agreements with the current property owner and that happened as of today so things are moving along. We’re quite a ways through the preliminary planning and design of this facility. We’ve had a number of hurdles to get through along the way besides negotiating with the current property owner. We’ve had some issues where we had to address from the Historical Society, Met Council, the Transportation Advisory Board. You name it, everybody’s been involved with this project to date. It’s been a complicated but I think at the end it will be a very worthwhile project. I think Sharmeen did a good job of covering basically what we’re trying to do here, or what we’d like to do here. The 420 stalls is what we’re required to deliver. This is being funded 80% through the federal government. 20% through the state in a match that we’re receiving through the Metropolitan Council. The stipulation is we have to deliver 420 on the site so that’s why the variance was requested. We’re kind of in a tight box. We’ve done some property exchanges with the current owner. We have roughly an acre for the facility and then we have some additional property for the bus turn around and some of the access points that we were able to negotiate in terms of a swap so that’s kind of where we’re at and why we needed to go forward with the variance. I did hear some questions about how will the buses access. Yes, Great Plains is where we plan to do both our access and our exiting. Currently we’re using Market Boulevard and that’s somewhat problematic getting out of there at certain times of the day. With the railroad tracks, where they’re located. Putting a signal at that location would be also very problematic so Great Plains is a welcomed relief for us and we’ll be actually coming in and that’s why the turn around was built in that location. I talked briefly about some of the negotiations we did with the current property owner. The entrance, the bus loading as well as the elevator and the access point, so the Dinner Theater can utilize this facility in our off hours was all part of that overall negotiation in terms of that, the additional land that we needed for the site. I can’t remember all the questions that I heard but I’d be happy to answer those that you may have. 8 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Keefe: Yeah in terms of getting access to you know pedestrian access to the parking garage from the Dinner Theater, is there any possibility to get something you know? Len Simich: Can you get that one slide that shows the. Keefe: Because you can drive a car in on kind of the northeast end. It’d be kind of nice if you can walk in so you don’t have to cut across. Len Simich: Well the major access point, again that was one of those negotiated pieces. Outside of our property we really cannot do anything in terms of constructing anything again with the stipulations and the funding. The way they are. We cannot go and do something from a private perspective. In a shared area, that’s why we were able to add that extra access point. We were able to move the elevator and so forth, that we can both utilize. Putting in walkways and connectivity for the Dinner Theater really will be the responsibility of that owner and they’re looking at you know future development in that area and I think a lot of those type of things will be taken into consideration at that time. Keefe: Okay. Larson: Anybody else? Jump right in. Laufenburger: Just, is it Len, is that correct? Len Simich: Yes. Laufenburger: So this picture that we’re looking at here, and I draw your attention to the arrow which comes off of the language there. Len Simich: Yeah. Laufenburger: If somebody is parking in the ramp and they have desire to go to the Dinner Theater, they will exit the ramp through the beige portion which juts out to the right or to the east and that’s called, that’s the lobby entrance. They would then exit the door and then cross across the arrow towards the Dinner Theater entrance, is that correct? Len Simich: That is correct. That is correct. The doors and the walkway will be on that side of the facility. That is where the elevators and the stairwell and everything comes out. Laufenburger: Okay. Larson: Anyone else? I’ve got one. And maybe you don’t know the answer. This might be more for Kate but if there were potential future development, you know are we talking possibly to the north end of this or, I’m trying to figure out where… Aanenson: If you can… 9 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Larson: Is that why this was done the direction it’s facing? Aanenson: No. I think it really was to make it work on the site and looking at the vertical and building into the hill there’s a steep slope coming down so I mean we went through numerous iterations to try to get to what worked the best. Making sure we had the correct grading for the street coming down. It’s a pretty severe street grading covering the hill, but you can look at the th overall site plan. Now we’re between Market and Great Plains and then we have West 78 on the north, so within that area we’ve got the hotel that just refurbished and then we’ve got the Market Street Station project. The newer project so there’s the potential for some of those other buildings to kind of refresh if they want to. The movie theater’s a newer building down there but there’s some potential for redevelopment of some of those other buildings that are there. Or within the, if you go back to the McComb’s study, potentially some other maybe office even in that area too so by having this product. Right now the park and ride is surface parking so now going more vertical provides an opportunity for more space and also opens up the back and that’s been kind of an impediment to development in this area. While there is that potential the access and the visibility, anybody that wants to, would want to develop down there wants that visibility th so people can see where you are. Find your address. Instead of driving on West 78 and trying to figure out how to get there so there is that potential so really the siting of the park and ride really was working with the landform there. Making the grades work and trying to minimize that footprint and make it all work. Larson: Okay. So I guess kind of on the lines of what Dan was asking, I mean it’s a beautiful building. It’s really well done but it seems like there’s an awful lot of pretty stuff being put on this, on an area that, I mean the road that goes past there, are people typically going to be driving that or is that mostly for the buses? Len Simich: No, that will be a main roadway into the site, which doesn’t exist today so. Larson: Yeah, I know that. Len Simich: That’s going to provide a lot of access to the city. That’s part of the goals of this overall project so I think you will see much more traffic there. The other thing I think that comes in, we will have some landscaping and I’m assuming we’re going to even have some more landscaping on that east side because that’s one of the stipulations we’re hearing back from the DOT and the Historical Society people in terms of some buffering. So you’ll probably see some additional landscaping there. The rest of it again we’ve pretty much taken up our boundaries on the site with the facility. The snow, there was a question. We will be dumping the snow in that northwest corner and then that will be hauled off site. We have an agreement in place with the current property owner, which we have in place today so that will just continue. Larson: Okay. Alright. Keefe: I’ve got another question. I think you had mentioned that buses are going to come off Great Plains. Are they going to come in and then do the turn around there as we see it and then go back out to Great Plains or do they continue off and go? 10 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Len Simich: No. They’ll have the ability. We’re designing it if in fact there’s something that we can’t get back out to Great Plains or whatever the case may be, it gives us another option. However we will have it scheduled where in the morning our buses will be coming in, coming down Great Plains. Taking a right in. Doing their pick up and then taking a right out going back to 5. So it’s trying to stay with more right’s and stay away from that left hand turn. th Larson: Okay. Say that again. Up Market Boulevard to West 78 down Great Plains. Len Simich: They’ll be coming down, yes. Coming down Great Plains. Taking a right into the site. Larson: I was going to say because it’s a really awkward left turn if you’re coming just right over the tracks there. Len Simich: Yeah. And then we’ll just be coming back out and then taking a right going back to 5. Larson: One more question. You’re talking about doing the snow dump on the northwest corner. To me that makes it appear like that’s the back side of the building. Len Simich: In the northwest. It is. Larson: So, but there’s businesses just adjacent to that direction. Had any thought been given to the fact that there are store fronts on that side? Len Simich: Actually the store fronts are down further. That’s really kind of behind the Dinner Theater, and when I say snow dumps, it’s not a snow pile. It literally is, as we plow off the top level and then it’s moved. Larson: Okay. Len Simich: So it’s not piled in that location but that is the dump. That’s where we’re going to. Larson: I just didn’t want to you know as I say I’m sure there’s going to be people coming in and out of those businesses on you know, whether it’s, I don’t know whatever is all over there. I just don’t want it to look like another back side of the building I suppose. Len Simich: Right. No, and I don’t believe it will be. When you look at the architectural. Larson: Okay. Len Simich: But again that area there that we’re talking about where the snow will dump is literally right behind the Dinner Theater. Larson: Okay. 11 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Laufenburger: I’ve got another question. When you said that you are obligated to put in 420 stalls, is that part of the funding from the federal government and the state? Len Simich: That is correct. In fact we were actually 100 short. 520 but we are able to work with the city and we have an overflow situation down at Lake Ann should we ever need it. We also own some property adjacent to that Lake Ann Park so down the road if there was ever a need, we don’t believe so. Our projections kind of show that maxing out here at around 400 stalls that we would need at any one time. At least foreseeable future. Laufenburger: Do your current occupancy rate of the parking stalls right now, what’s the max number of cars that you’re servicing with the existing situation, without this parking ramp? Len Simich: At this location 120. Laufenburger: So, okay. And how does that compare to, what do you call 101 and 212? Is that Southwest. Len Simich: That’s the Village. Southwest Village. Laufenburger: Village. Len Simich: There we’re just under 600 at that location. 1,000 in Eden Prairie. Laufenburger: Stalls. Len Simich: Stalls. Laufenburger: How many cars are currently there? Len Simich: Oh currently in that location? I would say on an average about 250-260 a day. Larson: Really? So they’re expecting more. Laufenburger: Alright. So are your projections that these 420 stalls will serve you how long into the future? Len Simich: Boy, if you’d asked me that question a year ago I would have said it’s not going to last us long but our business like everybody’s business has really, really slowed up. We, just to give you a little history. We are, were up until this year the fastest growing transit system in the whole state. If you look at state projections and state ridership. Not projections but actual ridership you know we’re off the charts. We have been hit like everybody. This is the first year we will not have double digit increases in my tenure, and I’ve been here since 1997. This year, if things stay as is, we’ll actually have a small decrease so you know we’re hoping that as things start picking up, the growth comes back. People start going back to work. Again that’s what we haul are people going to and from work for the most part and students. Then we’ll start seeing those increases again, but our projections really between this one and we also have another one 12 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 that’s on the books for 2012 in Chaska and then we’re also having one beyond that in the city of Carver so you know we have to kind of go back and re-look at all of our growth projections but I would say right now we’re probably going to be off 3 to 4 years in terms of when we anticipate this site filling so you’re probably looking at somewhere around 2015 before we get to that situation. Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you. Larson: Okay. Thank you very much. Len Simich: Thank you. Larson: Now I’ll open up the public hearing. Anybody would like to come up and make a comment, do so at this time. Fred Reese: My name is Fred Reese. I’m the owner of Lot 1, Block 1, Old Village Hall and, the location where the Goddard School is located. In retrospect I am all in favor of this development. I do have some minor concerns. One being with the bus traffic off of Great Plains. Especially early in the morning and late in the afternoon. Between Chapel Hill, the Goddard School and your normal commuter traffic and then we’re going to be adding bus traffic coming in off of Great Plains, what is going to be done to the road to compensate for that amount of traffic? I mean we’re talking about buses now that are going to be at a mix and I can see a major traffic problem emerging from this. Also, we’re projecting based upon the building of this site that we will actually see probably more customer interest in actually the Goddard School, okay. And what is being planned for people to safely cross Great Plains Boulevard to the Goddard School to bring their children to the school, and possibly Chapel Hill? Because it’s all connected by sidewalks. So I mean this facility definitely has a lot of great potential for growth but those questions need to be looked at. And also the utilities that are going to supply this particular development, I don’t know exactly where they’re running from. Electrical, water, gas, so on and so forth, but there’s a tremendous amount of utilities that run under Lot 1, Block 1, Old Village Hall. Okay? It’s basically quite a bit of easement utility type usage underneath the ground. So is the utilities, where are they going to be fed from? Are they going to be fed from, underneath Lot 1, Block 1 to supply power, electric, gas to this facility, and what is that going to, how’s that going to affect the Goddard School and it’s operation? And then my next question would be, when these new roads are being built between Market and Great Plains Boulevard, is there going to be any type of road closure on Great Plains Boulevard during the construction? I guess that’s almost an immediate question that maybe can be answered. Aanenson: We can probably answer all of those. Larson: I was going to say who wants to jump in and answer this one? Aanenson: I’ll just, I’ll let Alyson answer most of them but right now the, all that traffic’s coming in off of Market Boulevard for the people that are using the park and ride so we anticipate, because that’s where most of the ridership is coming, that they will continue. The riders. Not the buses. The riders, a majority of them would still come in off of Market instead of 13 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 coming around so we continue, and then if you look at where the entrance is to the park and ride for the customer, not the buses, that’s where they would come in on that side so we still think there’s a percentage of traffic that will still go that way so that’s not going to all be on Great Plains. Fred Reese: So alright, so coming in from Market and then exiting onto Great Plains and then out to Highway 5 basically? Aanenson: Potentially, yeah. Fred Reese: Potentially. Aanenson: And that’s probably the majority. Fred Reese: Making a right or making a. Aanenson: If you’re going to take a right, which a lot of people do. If you want to take the left, that’s a trickier move but some of those people taking a left are actually moved down to the southern, depending on the direction of where that natural break is for, when you’re going to the Southwest Village station. Fred Reese: Yeah, because I heard him talking about you know right in and right out, out of Great Plains. Aanenson: That’s for the buses. Fred Reese: That’s for the buses, right. Aanenson: Right, I’m talking about the trips that would be for the people parking. Fred Reese: And right, and that’s, and that’s where my main concern is with the buses. Because we’re not, you know we’re adding more traffic with this road going into Great Plains, plus we have the buses now that are going to be going into Great Plains. I haven’t heard any talk about the road being widened to handle this additional traffic or anything about traffic signals or anything like that. And I’m sort of like, and also the median between, on Great Plains Boulevard which allows access both from the north and from the south. Or actually from the north into Lot 1, Block 1, the Goddard School. Remax and so on and so forth. Is that median going to be widened a little bit to allow for buses that access from the west, on Great Plains into the parking garage or exit to the left onto Great Plains Boulevard going north? Aanenson: Madam Chair maybe if we may, and then I’ll need to let Alyson go through kind of those questions. Larson: Yes, please. 14 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Fauske: Certainly. I think Mr. Reese brings up a lot of good points. A lot of good questions. There are no proposed improvements to Great Plains Boulevard either by medians, adding lanes. It’s an existing collector road. There’s certainly a lot of background with the existing 120 stalls at the, that the park and ride has so there is some additional traffic that would result from this proposal. A traffic study was done back in, early this year. Spring of this year to look at the impacts to both Market Boulevard and Great Plains. At this time, as Mr. Simich had alluded to, a signal on Market Boulevard just wasn’t warranted looking at the spacing from the railroad. But the recommendation from the traffic study stated that based on their projections a signal was not warranted on Great Plains Boulevard but they advised city staff to keep monitoring that intersection to see if in the future the traffic volumes got high enough to warrant a signal at Great Plains Boulevard and the new public street connection. As far as pedestrian access to Goddard and Great Plains, that’s a very good point and that’s something that staff should look into. Based on the aerial I don’t see any crosswalks at those locations but they are signalized. There is one, it looks like one connection to the north across West 78th Street that they would be able to access to get to the, to Great Plains. The Christian Academy up there but we can certainly take a look at any kind of pedestrian striping to the Goddard School. Fred Reese: Right, because there is one crosswalk down to the south. Just to the north of the railroad tracks actually. That crosses over right now and is just to the north of Riley Automotive Center. There is pedestrian crossing right there. That connects those sidewalks. You know I think it would be prudent to possibly maybe bring something into effect there that would allow for a little bit more of a safe crossing for possible increased pedestrian crossing on that street. Because I can definitely see an increase in our business from this project. Without a doubt so, and you know I think we need to keep that into consideration that there’ll be families crossing that street and coming to the Goddard School, as well as the other facilities that are within Lot 1, Block 1 and also the Christian Academy so, because it’s all interconnected there. Fauske: That’s a very good point and I think staff, as staff will go back and take a look at it and particularly at the intersection where we do have a signalized intersection to the north of the proposed site, to look at striping for a pedestrian crosswalk. Fred Reese: And then just back to the utilities. Where are they going to be basically fed from? I know that the utilities were somewhat under estimated when even the Goddard School was built and additional power was brought in later on to compensate so, where, you know and with all the utilities running underneath that, under basically the parking lot of where the Goddard School currently stands, where, you know where, I’m real interested where the utilities are going to come from and how is that parking lot going to be affected? Because the utilities are coming from that direction, it could mean a substantial impact on that parking lot. Fauske: There are, I apologize I don’t have a slide show of any existing small utilities. There are some existing utilities. There’s existing gas, electric that actually currently go through the site and they are proposing to relocate it working with the small utility companies according to the parking structure that’s proposed. Fred Reese: Okay, so there’s utilities actually that are going to be utilized that are within the actual construction of the parking facility. 15 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Fauske: Correct. Underneath the current, the proposed footprint of the park and ride there are some existing small utilities so the applicant has been working with the small utility company to come up with an alternative alignment for those utilities. Fred Reese: Okay, so the parking lot at Lot 1, Block 1 probably would not be affected? Fauske: No. Not after they’re relocated. Fred Reese: Oh, okay. Aanenson: Are you talking about, will your lot be impacted? Fred Reese: Right, that’s what I’m talking about. Aanenson: No. What Alyson just said is there’s utilities on the site. Unfortunately right now they’re in the wrong location. They’d be underneath the ramp so they have to be relocated. Fred Reese: Right and then, and I understand that. I’m talking about my lot. Aanenson: It shouldn’t affect you at all. Fred Reese: Okay. Aanenson: The relocation would occur on this property. Fred Reese: Because there has been a lot of relocation of utilities underneath my lot over the last 4 years so. Aanenson: There has been in this area too as we redevelop but everything should occur on site at this location. Fred Reese: Okay. I’m just interested to find out how much of that would be going on. I think that answers all my questions. So, and I’d be interested to find out later on you know, if Sharmeen or you can touch base with me on the crosswalk, that would be much appreciated. Fauske: Certainly. Fred Reese: Okay, thank you all. Laufenburger: I have a question for Mr. Reese if I may. Is that okay Madam Chair? Larson: Certainly. 16 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Laufenburger: Sharmeen can you put up the aerial which shows the Goddard School and that property? There. Thank you. Now Sharmeen can you just point out Mr. Reese’s Lot 1, Block 1. Okay. So you talked about the potential of more business for yourself Mr. Reese. Fred Reese: Yes. Laufenburger: What, can you talk a little bit about what would that increase mean? Would that mean more traffic in the morning and then at noon and afternoon? Would it mean you would need more parking stalls? Do you see people doing all day parking in the ramp and then walking to your school? Can you just talk a little bit about how you see increased business for you and how that might affect you? Fred Reese: Well that’s what I’m sort of looking at. I’m looking at it as if you know folks that are going to use the Southwest Metro Transit, they will park in the parking ramp. Drop their child off and then go park in the Southwest Metro parking ramp. They would do either one. We’ve had people that have actually attended the Goddard School at the current Southwest Metro. Laufenburger: Park and ride. Fred Reese: That have actually been dropped off there and walked to the Goddard School and picked up their children. Okay. Laufenburger: Oh. So they’re walking across that. Fred Reese: Right. Behind the Chanhassen Dinner Theater. I mean we’ve had customers that have done that. Laufenburger: And so do they cross Great Plains then at that pedestrian walk which is very close to the letter D in boulevard? Is that where they cross? Fred Reese: Yes. Yes. Laufenburger: Okay. Fred Reese: And that’s where they cross, and then they come over to the school and get their children and then go home from there. But so yeah we are anticipating that the school you know will probably benefit from this parking garage you know with commuters. Laufenburger: Visibility. Fred Reese: And the visibility, absolutely. And you know just want to make sure that you know there is a safe crossing there for them, and then for other pedestrians and because it’s definitely going to be more pedestrian crossing of that road. There’s been a huge increase just of pedestrians using those sidewalks just since the Goddard School’s been built so it’s something I can see on the increase. 17 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Laufenburger: I don’t know what time of day this picture was taken but let me ask this question about the parking lot that you have available to you at the Goddard School. Do you find that, do you have adequate parking for people that are, that come in and are there all day long? Either your staff, your teachers, that sort of thing. Fred Reese: Yes we do. Laufenburger: You have adequate parking? Fred Reese: Yes, we do. Yeah. And we have currently 38 stalls and the stalls we have are more than what, you know they’re what we need. Laufenburger: And they’re also shared by the other business owners in that area. Fred Reese: Well Remax has their own lot. Laufenburger: Okay. Fred Reese: And the Christian Academy of course has their own lot. We share it with Seattle Suttons and also…and that’s all scoped out within the easement agreement that we have you know with those entities. Laufenburger: Okay. Fred Reese: But the, I guess my concern, and you asked me this question before and I didn’t answer it directly and I will now. The greatest amount of traffic from the Goddard School as well as from the Christian Academy basically is in the morning hours. I mean you can literally between basically 6:30 and 9:00 a.m., and then also in the afternoon basically between 3:30 and 6:00 p.m. So those two time zones, without a doubt, you see a huge amount of traffic between the two schools. With parents coming to pick up their children so I don’t know if the traffic study that was done actually, and actually I’ve talked to the gentleman that was doing the traffic study when he was there and I told him that these are the two times that you should come to count the amount of cars that are actually coming and going. I don’t know whether he did that or not but there is quite a few cars between the Goddard School. At that hour also Remax is experiencing a lot of their agents that are coming back from you know a day out you know working. So Remax is you know probably at a heighten level in the morning as well as the late afternoon. And then of course you have the Christian Academy and the traffic that’s you know associated with that school so, but on any given day I can definitely see you know Goddard School and, between Goddard School, Remax, Seattle Sutton and the St. Hubert’s Church, there’s probably, entering and exiting probably anywhere between 200 to 300 vehicles a day. Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you. Fred Reese: You are very welcome. 18 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Larson: That was answered? Okay. Is there anybody else that would like to come up and speak? No? Okay seeing that nobody else, I’ll close the public hearing and Kevin, what do you think? Dillon: You know I think it will be a good addition to the community. It looks like a well conceived plan. I mean it seems like the traffic patterns have been analyzed and studied pretty well. A couple of the concerns that were raised, it sounds like they’re going to get worked on so I’m in favor of the proposal as it’s laid out to us. Larson: Okay. Dan? Keefe: I’m excited about it. I think it’s going to be a great addition as well. I would like to see some work done on potentially the landscaping. Access for pedestrian potentially on that northeast corner. You know I’m sure we can make buses go in and out properly up Great Plains Boulevard and other than that I’m excited about it. Larson: Okay. How about you Tom? Doll: Looks like a good project and I guess I would have liked to have heard from someone from the theater just to make sure that they’re all happy with it and you know they weren’t incurring a lot of cost but no one was here so assuming. Aanenson: There is a lot of side agreements. Memorandums of Understanding that will be executed at the City Council so they are a part of that agreements but it’s really not the jurisdiction of the Planning Commission but all those agreements are in place and they’ve been working very closely with them. Larson: Denny? Laufenburger: I forgot to ask one question of staff. May I do so? Larson: Certainly. Laufenburger: Is it the City Council that approves the vacating of the easement? Is that correct? Okay. So you make that a condition? Alright, fine. I have no questions. I also think that the, just congratulate the staff on doing a very comprehensive and thorough job of thinking of all of the things that were necessary and I’m too in favor of it. Larson: How about you Mark? Undestad: I like it too. Larson: I do too. In fact I think it’s probably going to be the prettiest park and ride I’ve ever seen. Of course Chanhassen doesn’t do anything less right. Okay. Well, if nobody else has any comments or questions I think I’ll entertain a motion. 19 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 Undestad: I’ll make a motion. The Planning Commission recommends the City Council approve Variance Request 09-18 to allow parking spaces that are 8 1/2 feet wide and drive aisles that are 24 1/2 feet wide as shown in plans dated received October 16, 2009 and including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation with the following conditions 1. Should we do three all at once? Al-Jaff: Please. Undestad: Alright. The Planning Commission recommends the City Council approve the preliminary plat for Chanhassen Transit Station, Planning Case 09-18 as shown in plans dated received October 16, 2009, subject to conditions 1 through 17 and would like to add condition 18 as written by staff. And C. The Planning Commission recommends the City Council approve the site plan for the construction of the parking ramp and transit station for Planning Case 09-18 as shown in plans dated received October 16, 2009, subject to conditions 1 through 14 and I’d like to add condition 15 as written by staff. Larson: Okay. Have I got a second on that? Laufenburger: Second. Undestad moved, Laufenburger seconded that the Planning Commission recommends the City Council approve variance request #09-18 to allow parking spaces that are 8½ feet wide and drive aisles that are 24½ feet wide, as shown in plans dated received October 16, 2009, and including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation with the following condition: 1.Approval of the variance application is contingent upon approval of the final plat and site plan permit – Planning Case 2009-18.” All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. Undestad moved, Laufenburger seconded that the Planning Commission recommends the City Council approve the preliminary plat for Chanhassen Transit Station –Planning Case 09-18 as shown in plans dated received October 16, 2009, subject to the following conditions: 1.Outlot B shall be conveyed to the City. 2.The preliminary plat must be revised to include the City’s standard drainage and utility easements. 3.Existing public and private utilities must be encompassed by a ten-foot wide drainage and utility easement centered over the utility. 4.The main drive aisle dimensions to the parking ramp shown on Sheet C200 must be clarified. 20 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 5.The parking ramp and surface parking area shall be privately owned and maintained. 6.The sidewalks within Outlot B shall be maintained by SouthWest Transit. 7.The grading plan is incomplete. It must show the existing two-foot contours on the north and west side of the proposed construction limits. The proposed contours must tie in to the existing contours. 8.The proposed concrete spillway that would convey runoff from the western 25 to 50 feet of the parking lot on Lot 1, Block 1 must be eliminated from the design as it would direct runoff across a sidewalk. 9.The hydrology calculations must be revised to include the drainage area to the north, particularly the flared end section that discharges approximately 55 feet north of CB B. 10.The developer’s engineer and the City’s engineering consultant must coordinate their respective designs to ensure that the rate and volume control requirements are met. 11.Hydraulic calculations must be submitted with the final plat submittals. 12.The developer’s engineer must work with the City’s engineering consultant for the public street project to ensure that the City’s storm sewer design will be able to accommodate the runoff from the parking ramp storm sewer. 13.A building permit is required for the proposed retaining wall. 14.It is the developer’s responsibility to coordinate any small utility relocation with the appropriate utility company. 15.The utility plan must be changed to reflect the following: a.Show the directional flow arrows on existing and proposed utilities. b.Adjust the line work so that the proposed storm sewer can be seen on the plan. c.Show the connection to the existing storm sewer on the southwest corner of the construction limits. d.Include a note where the rain leaders connect to the existing storm sewer. 16.Full park fees shall be paid in lieu of parkland dedication and/or trail construction. The fees shall be collected for Lot 1 Block 1 (1.45 acres) as a condition of approval for Chanhassen Transit Station. The park fees shall be collected in full at the rate in force upon final plat submission and approval. The current park and trail fee charge for commercial property is $12,500 per acre. 17.All plans must be revised to reflect a continuous sidewalk along the north edge of Market Street. 21 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 The plat must be revised to include a 20 foot wide drainage and utility easement centered 18. over the existing watermain within proposed Lot 1, Block 2. ” All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. Undestad moved, Laufenburger seconded thatthe Planning Commission recommends the City Council approve the site plan for the construction of the parking ramp and transit station for Planning Case 09-18 as shown in plans dated received October 16, 2009, subject to the following conditions: 1.The monument sign proposed on Lot 2, Block 1, shall not exceed 8 feet in height. 2.Only one logo shall be permitted along the east elevation. 3.A lighting plan that is in keeping with the approved standards shall be submitted to the City. 4.Approval of the Site Plan is contingent upon approval of the final plat and variance – Planning Case 2009-18. 5.Building Official Conditions: a.Elevator\office\lobby structure is required to have an automatic fire extinguishing system. b.The plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of Minnesota. c.Accessible routes must be provided to commercial buildings, parking facilities and public transportation stops. d.All parking areas, including parking structure, must be provided with accessible parking spaces. e.The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as possible to discuss property line issues as well as plan review and permit procedures. 6.Inlet protection will be required on all conveyance systems – existing and proposed. 7.Concrete washout area needs to be shown on the plan set. 8.A note is to be added to sheet C-600 under the Dandy Bag detail to indicate that the bag must be cleaned out any time it reaches one-half the capacity. 9.The curb cut inlets to the rain garden should be made as wide as practicable. A minimum of eight feet is recommended to avoid concentrated flows and subsequent erosion. 10.The concrete spillway should be replaced with a vegetated swale. 11.All exposed soil areas must be stabilized within 7 days after the construction activity in that portion has temporarily or permanently ceased. 22 Chanhassen Planning Commission – November 17, 2009 12.If any credits are to be applied to the SWMP fees, the drainage calculations should be revised to include the rain garden. 13.Total SWMP fees due at the time of final plat are $34,731.48. It is possible that a credit may apply for the rain garden feature. However, as the drainage calculations do not address what area is being treated in the rain garden, this credit cannot be calculated. 14.The plans shall show all existing utilities including but not limited to aboveground and underground electric lines and underground gas lines. Utility companies shall be contacted for locates. 15.Approval of the site plan is contingent upon approval of the vacation of the drainage and utility easement and abandonment of the existing utilities within the vacated area.” All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:Commissioner Laufenburger noted the verbatim and summary minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated November 3, 2009, amended by Chairwoman Larson on page 8 to delete the word “gift”. Chairwoman Larson adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 8:05 p.m. Submitted by Kate Aanenson Community Development Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 23