PC Minutes 05-18-2010
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 18, 2010
Chairwoman Larson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Debbie Larson, Kevin Ellsworth, Denny Laufenburger, Tom Doll and
Andrew Aller
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Mark Undestad and Kathleen Thomas
STAFF PRESENT:
Bob Generous, Senior Planner; and Terry Jeffery, Water Resources
Coordinator
PUBLIC HEARING:
AUDUBON ROAD RECONSTRUCTION: REQUEST FOR A WETLAND
ALTERATION PERMIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE RECONSTRUCTION OF
AUDUBON ROAD ON PROPERTY LOCATED ADJACENT TO BLUFF CREEK
BETWEEN 8900 AND 8950 AUDUBON ROAD. APPLICANT: CITY OF
CHANHASSEN.
Terry Jeffery presented the staff report for this item.
Larson: Denny, have you got any?
Laufenburger: I do. Terry, would you put up the one where you showed the road and then the
length of the boulevard. I have a couple questions about that.
Jeffery: The photograph?
Laufenburger: Yeah, photography. Yes please. Now you said the edge of the road which
currently exists, and that’s a rural road. You classify that as a rural road, right? So show us
where will the edge of the road be after construction.
Jeffery: After construction the edge of it will be approximately this. It’ll be plus or minus a
foot.
Laufenburger: Okay. Right about where the gravel is right now.
Jeffery: Yeah.
Laufenburger: Okay. And then what’s the next.
Jeffery: Then we will have a 7 foot grass boulevard.
Laufenburger: Okay.
Chanhassen Planning Commission - May 18, 2010
Jeffery: Then we will have a 12 foot trail and then from there we’ll have a 1 foot clear zone then
we’ll come down at 2 ½ to 1.
Laufenburger: Okay. And in order to do that you only need to extend the box 8 feet, is that
correct?
Jeffery: That is correct.
Laufenburger: So you will actually remove the, let’s see right now it’s, it’s that triangle piece.
So that will be taken out?
Jeffery: That will be removed. That will be salvaged and that will be replaced so there’s going
to be two 4 foot sections that will go in, and rather than come in at the, it’s about 3 foot, 2 to 3
foot, 3 to 1 right now. We’ll increase that grade to 2 ½ to 1.
Laufenburger: Okay, good. That answers that question. Now can you go back to where you
describe where the sewer line is, you’re taking some sewer out. Yeah, right there. So you’re
taking that out but are you going to divert the sewer under the creek?
Jeffery: Now what happens is, I thought I brought a profile sheet. In fact I’m pretty sure I did.
Ellsworth: Which way is north in this picture?
Jeffery: North would be this way. Here’s the new pond… If you think about it, we’ll doodle.
Pardon my doodling and I don’t know if I can doodle upside down. If you think about the
current crown in the road and then we have shoulder and then we actually have a ditch on either
side. So here’s center line of road and then here’s where our drainage.
Laufenburger: And I’m looking north, okay?
Jeffery: Yep.
Laufenburger: Is that what you’re saying?
Jeffery: Yep. Right. So now instead what we’ll do is, we’ll extend it out and there’ll be curb
and gutter put in and the grades will move into here so will actually sheet flow onto the road
where it can fade through the curb and gutter into the storm sewer system and brought down to
the pond. Do you want to look at this one?
Larson: No, the other side. Yep, it’s upside down. It says there was a cattle crossing?
Jeffery: Yep, right here.
Larson: Really.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - May 18, 2010
Jeffery: Yep, and it is still there. And that will be, we aren’t going to remove it but we are going
to bulk head.
Larson: How is it marked or is it marked?
Jeffery: It’s not marked.
Larson: It’s just assumed.
Jeffery: It’s under the road. If you went down just to their driveway, it’s overgrown with
vegetation. There isn’t a clear path into it but it’s there.
Larson: Kevin, have you got anything? Or Denny, are you finished? I’m sorry.
Laufenburger: No, that’s all I had. Thank you very much. No.
Ellsworth: Terry could you talk just a little bit about banking of wetlands. For instance the
property north of Erhart’s, that’s natural wetland. How do you get a bank started and how do
you monitor it and take out of a bank? Maybe you can explain a little bit of that at least.
Jeffery: Existing wetland cannot be banked so what is done is either, a degraded wetland, an
agricultural wetland where drain tile or something was going through, or something that was
vegetatively degraded or it was pasture land, we could take and restore. That would then be
reviewed by the Technical Evaluation Panel which would then, well the Army Corps of
Engineers, Board of Water and Soil Resources and Carver County Soil and Water Conservation
District and in this case the City. Whoever the LGU is. That would then get deposited into the
BWSR bank. Board of Water and Soil Resources bank and there are, if you go onto the web site
there are a number of accounts that are for sale and then there are accounts like our’s that are
hidden from public view, not because we’re being sneaky but because it’s not available for
public sale. It’s our’s to use. So then we look at, and as part of our permitting process, it might
even be in your packet. Yes, on the, well they aren’t really pages. It will look like this. It’s
really a simple ledger sheet. They know how many square feet we have of each type of wetland
within the bank, and they’ll divide it into sub groups. In this case A. We have A, B and C in
this one. A is a Type 3 shallow marsh. We have B which is a Type I seasonally flooded basin
and then we have C and D which are two different types of public value credit which tend to be
buffers, storm water treatment, although storm water treatment’s no longer considered public
value so they’ve redistributed that. But we will, with the approval of the local government and
the Technical Evaluation Panel that request to withdraw a certain amount of credits from our
bank from that sub group. BWSR then will write a letter back to us saying those credits have
been debited and then we’ll just have a new balance left on our bank. The process of getting a
bank, I would like to get more banks in here. It tends to be quite complicated.
Larson: Does it cost the City that?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - May 18, 2010
Jeffery: The City does not have to pay the $43,166. That is based upon sale of credits in Carver
County over the last 5 years. They come up with an average price per acre. We have to pay the
tax on that $43,166 but we do not have to pay the $43,166.
Ellsworth: Terry, another question. Wetland Type 3, I saw that in quite a few references but on
the, it was on the basic application for that Minnesota Local/State/Federal Application form for
Water/Wetland. It talks about wetland Type I. Is it just that, both seem to be Circular 39 and I
didn’t look too deep into those definitions but I didn’t know if there was, if that was an
inconsistency there.
Jeffery: No, that’s a great catch. That is a typographic error. That should read Type 3 that
you’re referring to right here?
Ellsworth: Correct.
Jeffery: And that should be Type 3.
Ellsworth: I was just trying to follow it and I lost track there.
Jeffery: Thank you.
Ellsworth: Trying to understand. That was it.
Larson: Okay, how about you Tom?
Doll: No questions.
Larson: No? Andrew?
Aller: No questions, thanks.
Larson: Well I just have one. Getting back to your, can you show the picture of the road? Okay
so just extending on past the, it’s going to be road up to the one line with the gutters and all that,
then green grass and then the trail you said was going to be, what?
Jeffery: 12 feet.
Larson: Now is that, is that like dirt or is that paved?
Jeffery: No, this will be a bituminous trail.
Larson: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. That was the only question I had.
Laufenburger: Bike worthy.
Jeffery: Correct.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - May 18, 2010
Laufenburger: Existing right-of-way or.
Jeffery: It is all existing right-of-way. There are a few places where we’ll need to get an
encroachment agreements with property owners and I believe at some of the intersections we
will need to acquire some right-of-way but not in this area here.
Aller: Just one last quick question. And on the ratios, it’s a 2 to 1 for the exchange?
Jeffery: Correct.
Aller: And it’s a 3 to 1 on the slope?
Jeffery: It is 2 ½ to 1 on the slope. Yep. 3 to 1 on the, oh I’m sorry. 2 to 1, I was thinking you
were talking about replacement ratio. No, the side slope coming down right now is a little over 3
to 1. We are going to steepen that to 2 ½ to 1. 2 ½ to 1. Again buy us that impact.
Aller: Is that a change from what the original application is?
Jeffery: No.
Laufenburger: Madam Chair, just one last question if I can.
Larson: Yeah.
Laufenburger: Terry there’s a tree that seems to be encroaching on the south side of the, of the
box culvert and does, will that tree be saved or is that not even a, maybe it’s not even a hard
wood tree. Right, just right there, yeah.
Jeffery: That will be removed. I don’t think there would be any way to avoid removing it. Just
staging it alone. We’ll be building a coffer dam across, on the water behind it. Replace it. Since
we are pooling the water we don’t want to create a flooding hazard for anybody or remove
anything that really makes it a more laborious task.
Laufenburger: I just, that tree seems to provide very good cover I guess or kind of to hide the
appearance for those may choose to hide it. Will you replace it with other landscaping?
Jeffery: It is my intent to put boulevard plantings in there and trees down in that area. One for
the, because this is private property. There are two landowners own right up to public water so it
would be my preference to be as unobtrusive as possible through there. Not to mention, as you
pointed out kind of tongue in cheek, it is considered a trout stream but not at this point but down
below so shading wouldn’t hurt.
Larson: Okay, is that all you’ve got? Thank you Terry. At this time I will open up the meeting
to a public hearing. Don’t all rush up at once guys. Seeing nobody stepping up I will close the
public hearing and we’ll talk about it. What do you think Andrew?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - May 18, 2010
Aller: I think they’ve done a good job of taking a look at the melioration that is needed and
required. I think they fulfilled all the State requirements as I see it and through the questions it’s
clear that the public safety issues were looked at. The meliorations and the ratios were looked at
so I think it’s bound to be approved.
Larson: Okay. Tom.
Doll: I think it will work.
Larson: Kevin.
Ellsworth: Looks fine to me, yeah.
Larson: Okay.
Laufenburger: Yeah I think the real test for me would be if any of the neighbors came forward
and said hey, you know you’re impacting me but they’re not doing that so I would have to
assume this is all good so.
Larson: I think so too and I think you know redoing that road and adding this to it, it will all
make sense. But with that have I got a motion from anyone?
Aller: Madam Chairman I would move that the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommend
that the City Council approve the Wetland Alteration Permit subject to the conditions of approval
as specified on pages 3 and 4 in the staff report and then the adoption of the attached Findings of
Fact and Recommendations.
Larson: Do I have a second?
Doll: Second.
Larson: Alright, we’ll take a vote.
Aller moved, Doll seconded that the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that
the Chanhassen City Council approves Wetland Alteration Permit #2010-07 for the
reconstruction of Audubon Road and appurtenant facilities with the following conditions:
1.The applicant shall submit the Application for Withdrawal of Wetland Credits from the
Minnesota Wetland Bank to the Board of Water and Soil Resources Wetland Bank
Administrator, and no impacts to wetland shall occur prior to the local authorities, the
account holder and the user of the credits having received a letter of approval from the
Wetland Bank Administrator stating that these credits have been debited.
2.A letter of permission (LOP) or other approval from the United States Army Corps of
Engineers shall be received prior to any impacts to this wetland.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - May 18, 2010
3.A DNR Waters permit shall be received from the Minnesota Department of Natural
Resources prior to any work within the wetland or Bluff Creek.
4.Per DNR rules, no activity affecting the bed of Bluff Creek may occur between April 1 and
June 30 to minimize the probability of impacts to fish spawning and migration.
5.Every reasonable effort shall be made to insure that no sediment or sediment-laden waters are
discharged to this wetland.
6.A signed “Landowner Statement and Contractor Responsibility for Work in Wetlands or
Public Waters” shall be provided to the City as the LGU for the Wetland Conservation Act
and the DNR Regional Enforcement Office.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Commissioner Laufenburger noted the verbatim and summary
minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated April 20, 2010 and the summary minutes of
the work session meeting dated May 4, 2010.
COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS:
None.
CITY COUNCIL ACTION UPDATE.
Larson: Was that what that sheet was that you gave us earlier?
Laufenburger: Yep, one page.
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Generous: Well it’s May 10 they approved the PUD amendment. They haven’t had any other
public hearings. And then the other thing was just a reminder that you do have the joint work
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session at 6:00 Monday the 24. It’s in the Fountain Conference Room.
Larson: Okay.
Generous: And that was just, we had those goals and they’re just an update. So we had
something to hold onto.
Larson: That was so nice of you. Thank you for doing that. Okay well with that I think that we
are adjourned, is that correct? Anything else?
Chairwoman Larson adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 7:25 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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