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PC Minutes 07-06-2010 CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JULY 6, 2010 Chairwoman Larson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Debbie Larson, Tom Doll, Kathleen Thomas, Kevin Ellsworth, Andrew Aller and Mark Undestad MEMBERS ABSENT: Denny Laufenburger STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director; Bob Generous, Senior Planner; and Paul Oehme, City Engineer/Public Works Director PUBLIC PRESENT: Mike Overschmidt 1822 Colonial Lane #1 PUBLIC HEARING: PIONEER PASS: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT CREATING 94 LOTS, 4 OUTLOTS AND RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR PUBLIC STREETS (APPROXIMATELY 45 ACRES); CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE BLUFF CREEK OVERLAY DISTRICT WITH A VARIANCE FOR ENCROACHMENT INTO THE PRIMARY ZONE; AN INTERIM USE PERMIT TO ALLOW SITE GRADING PRIOR TO FINAL PLAT APPROVAL; AND A WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT FOR THE GRADING AND FILLING OF WETLANDS ON PROPERTY ZONED RESIDENTIAL LOW AND MEDIUM DENSITY (RLM) AND AGRICULTURAL ESTATE (A2); LOCATED NORTH OF PIONEER TRAIL (1600 PIONEER TRAIL) AT BLUFF CREEK DRIVE. APPLICANT: RYLAND HOMES, PLANNING CASE 2010-09. Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item. Larson: You start Mark. Undestad: Just one on that dedication side. I was reading there, there was one, was it the wetland? Are they making up the right amount of square footage that they’re impacting on there? Generous: They will be able to correct it. Yes, that’s a requirement that they have to meet the Wetland Conservation Act requirement. They started this under the old wetland rules and then there’s new ones that came into effect so I think that was part of the confusion. Undestad: I don’t have anything else. Larson: Andrew. Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Aller: Bob on the upland area, was it, is it Outlot B that they’re going to use to ameliorate and put the alterations in? Generous: Yes. Aller: And then what other, what did they actually do to take a look at, if you know, other options other than Outlot B? Generous: I’m not sure. That was working with their engineer. Aller: But our engineer agrees with their engineer that that’s the best possible avenue? Oehme: Yeah, that’s, that Outlot B is, has conducive soils for wetland mitigation. It’s one of the lower spots on the development area and typically we like to mitigate on site as much as we can so that’s the preferred location. Aller: Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we’ve covered that for purposes of the variance. We wanted it to be the hardship on it. That’s all I have right now. Ellsworth: Thank you. Paul, using the land in Outlot B for the wetland mitigation, you said that was a good place for it. Kind to follow up on Andrew’s question, does it meet all the tests for variance? Why couldn’t they just take you know Lot 6 and 7 and use that? Is it because it’s on the steep slope and you obviously couldn’t put a wetland there? Generous: And it’s higher than where the other lot is from the development. Ellsworth: So there are no other lots that could be used instead of creating that need for a variance? Oehme: It’d be very difficult to address any wetland mitigations on top of that bluff area. Ellsworth: All those lots follow that, yeah okay. Aanenson: You might want to mention too there is, Bob didn’t bring up to their point. There is some retaining walls along that side. Not in the exact area of this wetland but there is retaining walls out there too and we had looked at it before and it would be parched sitting up there and to keep the use of a wetland, not having it sitting up high like that and with the wetlands there. I mean the retaining walls there. Ellsworth: I had some, I have a few questions. Probably more related to just nuances in reading the report so please bear with me. On page 1 you talk about the zoning RLM having the low density, net density of 1.2 to 4.0 units. In the code 20-641 it states the net density at 8 units per acre. Am I mixing things up here? Or I was trying to compare to what was in the zoning versus what was stated here. 2 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Generous: Well the RLM would permit, is you can use it in either low density or medium density lands. It would permit development up to 8 units an acre. However under this application we’re following the low density portion of it. So it would be a maximum of 4 and they come in at 3.53 on their net lands which takes out parkland and right-of-way. Ellsworth: Okay. On page 2 it talked about the proposed park development and you mentioned that. Could it be concurrent with the first phase instead of the second? Could that be a requirement or is the construction that they’re doing prohibit that? Generous: Well they’re going to rough grade this site under the first phase. Ellsworth: On the first phase. Generous: The City’s not quite ready to go forward with actually constructing it. Ellsworth: Yeah, I saw some money in the, it looked like in the park CIP but it wasn’t til 2012 and I don’t know if it was for this area or not. Aanenson: Well I think there are two issues actually on that one if I may and I think one of them is that they wanted to get some feedback from the neighborhood. You’ve got the Liberty on Bluff Creek which has some private amenities but to get some of the neighbors that are established in the city, exactly what the neighborhood’s desire was for some of the other improvements to the park. Ellsworth: On page 7, oh about two-thirds of the way down it talks about. I think it was two- thirds of the way down. Almost near the bottom. This area is to be graded and sit for one year. I was trying to trace that requirement back to the conditions and I didn’t see it there. James R. Hill. I think it’s the second to last paragraph. And I didn’t know if that was a condition that needed to be noted or not. Aanenson: It probably should be. Oehme: Yeah, I believe that references the grading. The mass grading of the site that was just discussed to allow consolidation of the soils. The area that that is in Phase II anyway so I don’t think that’s going to take place until the future development. Ellsworth: Because I remember when they put in Powers they had that soil piled up for almost 2 years. Different soil conditions. Oehme: Exactly. Ellsworth: They’re at the top of the hill no doubt. Yeah. And then on page 8, I had to look up a lot of acronyms. CB-catch basin. I finally figured that out. I didn’t see any other drawings where it showed the back yards and that was more curiosity more than anything. Where did I miss that or, and why is there a catch basin in somebody’s back yard? Is it just because that’s the low point or? 3 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Oehme: Yeah, if you look on, it’s just 3.3 plans referencing James R. Hill. Dated 6-4-10. Ellsworth: It’s in the drawings? Oehme: It’s in the drawings. It shows some catch basins in some of the back yards. They’re shown on the roads and also it’s shown in some back yards and because of the topography in this area and how the development has to be laid out, there are some drainage routes in people’s back yards and in order, there’s some long stretches where they’re going to be collecting a lot of water in people’s back yards and flowing to the east so we want to try to capture a lot of that water and put it in the catch basins before it ends up in people’s back yards and rivers. Ellsworth: So are those the cast iron and dome things with slots in it that you see and then the water goes in there and then goes into a pipe? Is that what that is? Oehme: Yeah, basically. The ones you’re referring to are more beehived type catch basins. We’re using the lower profile catch basins we like to use here so they’re not as noticeable. Ellsworth: Alright. Aller: And if I might just interrupt as long as we’re on the back yards. My understanding is in the conditions that those swales will be covered by the easements. Oehme: Right. There’s, exactly. There’s drainage utility easements through the back yards so this will be, the storm sewer system’s going to be maintained by the City of Chanhassen so we need those easements to get in there and maintain those systems properly. Ellsworth: And then on page 9 we talked about water quality fees and water quantity fees and in other sections in the conditions we talk about fees being paid at different times but I didn’t see these fees anywhere in the conditions. I mean it’s just automatic that they get paid as they go through the process and it doesn’t need to be in the conditions. I didn’t know. I didn’t see them in there. Generous: It’s on page 25. It would be 7(h). The SWMP, S-W-M-P fees. Ellsworth: That’s $119. $119,000 and these two, the water quality fees, looks like one’s at 82 and another one’s at 85. Generous: Yeah, and then they get a credit for some improvements that they’re doing and that’s currently our estimated. Ellsworth: Oh okay. Generous: When they get the construction plans all done we can get a more accurate number. 4 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Ellsworth: Alright, great. Yeah, I didn’t catch that. I didn’t understand that. And then I also had to look up SDR, Standard Dimension Ratio for a sewer pipe. Is that just how thick the wall is then for how deep? Oehme: Right. It’s a rating for the pipe and how strong it is. Ellsworth: Like Schedule 40 or Schedule 80? Oehme: Exactly. Ellsworth: And then this is probably a nit on page 13. Allow no more than 10 trees of a species grouped together. That’s the second paragraph from the bottom. But on 3(e) in the conditions, on page 23 it says 8. Again that’s probably a nit. I don’t know which one 10 or 8. Generous: Well she wrote 10. Ellsworth: 8 made it in the conditions. Generous: Yeah, we’ll revise that to 10. Ellsworth: And then this being the first one that I’ve been through I was looking at the differences on the recommendations. You know we talk about action or must versus should and need be. For instance 2(u) has should work with MnDOT. Is that then at the discretion of the applicant or is that really a must? Generous: They must is they want the permit. Ellsworth: Okay. And then 7(a) and (c), it’s kind of the same and maybe I’m just reading into it too much. The HydroCAD model should be revised. And the wetland needs to be shown. Does that carry the same weight as must or simply it has to be done for this condition to be met? Oehme: It will have to be done. Aanenson: Yeah, I think you’re correct. I think we should change those all to shall and yeah. We’ve got several different authors but I think, because we didn’t done one for a while, I think it’s better to use the same tense and it should all be shall. Ellsworth: I know the Statutes for the County, when it says shall it’s one thing and. Aanenson: That’s correct. Ellsworth: Yeah. Aanenson: But when it goes to City Council they will be changed to shall. 5 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Ellsworth: Great. And then on page 24, item 6(d). I didn’t understand that at all. What was being talked about there? I don’t know if there’s a picture that can show us what that is or. Generous: That’s that Outlot B here and A. Okay A’s providing access, future access to the development to the east and Outlot B is the Bluff Creek corridor. Ellsworth: Yeah, the creek flows through there. Generous: Right. So then we’re allowing the developer to make, can, they donate it to the City and go through that process or if they want to keep it so that the City would take fee ownership of those A and B and then we can use them how we want to. If they don’t, then at a minimum we need the easements to cover the wetlands, storm water ponds and the access to the storm water ponds and the easement’s a trail for Outlot B, A to connect to the property to the east. So we leave it up them. Ellsworth: Are there plans for that property to the east? Aanenson: Maybe you could go back to that other slide Bob that has all the properties on there. Again the goal under that D if I may, is that there’s a couple different ways to convey it. If it’s under private ownership we just want to make sure that it’s specifically spelled out how it can be used, as you know. Whether that can be trails in the future, something like that so we want to make sure that if it is under private that those are in favor of adding those at a future date. As you can see that piece where the trails go through. Maybe Bob can. Ellsworth: And the road looks like it crosses over right in that Outlot A. Aanenson: Correct. That’s how that, that other piece is kind of topographically isolated. It has a preliminary plat on it so that would provide access to that piece. Ellsworth: I didn’t connect that. And then on the traffic assessment, page 1 it’s a few pages into the traffic noise assessment. At the bottom. Introduction’s at the top of the page and at the bottom it says outdoor areas associated with homes are not normally intended for use between 6:00 and 7:00 a.m. when the highest nighttime level occurs. I don’t know much about noise analysis and so on but 6:00 to 7:00 a.m. is not nighttime and that’s why it’s in quotes. It follows through from the previous night or is that at morning or? Oehme: Shouldn’t that be p.m.? Ellsworth: It does talk about 6:00 to 7:00 a.m. consistently through here. I didn’t know which it was. Larson: 6:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m.? Is that what they mean? Ellsworth: That could be. Larson: That’s how I would read it. If it’s in the wintertime that would make sense. 6 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Ellsworth: So it’s nighttime in the wintertime for sure. And then I, you know I was trying to understand this and there aren’t any figures in the figures. They’re all blank. So I didn’t know what we missed. In the handout that we got. Generous: We copied that report from previous reviews so. Ellsworth: I assume it’s, it’s decibel…based relative to the plat. Aanenson: Correct. Ellsworth: That’s enough. Thank you. Larson: So should we have that clarified? 6:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. Aanenson: Yeah, we’d have to clarify that with MnDOT and we can do that. Larson: Okay. Okay. Kathleen, is there anything left? Thomas: No. Good job. Larson: How about you Tom? Doll: I was just kind of curious about sanitary sewer between Lots 5 and 6, Block 1 to be installed with a steel casing. Is that to ensure that it doesn’t break so that you know there doesn’t seem like they could get in to fix it between the home, is that? Oehme: Yeah, that section of pipe is extremely deep…so staff has been working with the developer’s engineer on the best practice for, if anything goes wrong with that sewer pipe, what can we do to address that situation? We’ve decided to case that pipe so in the future if that pipe would have any problems where we need to replace it, that sleeve is there, for us to pull out the pipe and put in a new one basically so that’s all it’s there for. Instead of digging up between somebody’s home. Doll: Bob, you’re talking about Lot 20, Block 2 not meeting requirements. How would they overcome that in the future? Generous: They just have to adjust the lot line. There’s two ways. They can shorten the frontage by 20 feet on Street C and then change where the front is determined by ordinance, then they would meet the depth requirement. Or they can shift the back back about 8 feet. So it’d just adjust those lot lines a little bit and it’s up to them to determine if they want to. Doll: And that will mess with the setback on the other Street A? Generous: No. The setbacks will remain the same. 7 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Doll: Does that mean if you move the lot line over, then you’re. Then you have a deeper setback on Street A or? Generous: No, it’s 25 either way from the street frontage but it’s 10 on the other two sides. So I anticipate that they would, you know they could shift this over to 20 feet. Doll: Sure. Generous: And then maybe, so you’d have like a 52 foot deep building envelope there and then it’d be longer as you go in. Doll: I know that becomes kind of a problem when you’re trying to fit a house in there. And just, I’ve never been through one of these either. Been on the end of platting and never realized how much there was to developing and can’t believe that people develop. Something in here about retaining walls constructed with the development will be the responsibility of the homeowner’s association. Does that mean the developer builds the retaining walls or I mean people aren’t going to get into these houses and then all of a sudden they have to build a retaining wall. Oehme: That will be one of the requirements of the developer to put the retaining walls with the grading plan. Doll: So the developer is known as the homeowner’s association? Oehme: The developer will be the homeowner’s association until such time that the developer releases that requirement and gives it to the homeowners association is established. Doll: That’s all I have. Larson: Okay, well I’ve got a couple. I think everybody covered everything really well. You had referenced to, on page 6. It says the plan calls for Wetlands A and Z. I am not seeing Z. Generous: I think those were the remnant wetlands created. Larson: Right. Generous: Or truncated when the City did the Bluff Creek Boulevard improvements. Larson: Yeah, it says A and Z are remnants but. Doll: There’s no Z in our plan. Larson: Is it a piece of A or where? Generous: It shows up on the bigger grading plan if you can just read it. It’s one of the others on. Let’s see if I can find it. Terry showed me. It’s on Sheet 322. Existing Wetland Z. It’s just 8 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 to the northeast of the round about. You can just sort of see it. It’s fish scaled in there and that was a remnant that was left over and it’s actually from…because we mitigated the whole thing. Larson: Okay. Okay. Alright, no big deal. The other question I had, lots that could be problematic and just maybe I’m not understanding this. You’re talking about Lot 7, Block 1 on page 7. The last paragraph and it kind of goes into the next page but let’s see it says the proposed grade match will create a concentrated flow condition in a known highly erodible soil. So Lot 7, it looks like it’s, if you look on page 8 it’s kind of like right next to, is that a red line a retaining wall or what is that? Generous: Yes. Larson: So Lot 7 doesn’t have that retaining wall. Is that a problem for Lot 7? Is that going to be an issue? Oehme: The grades in that area I think they’re 3 to 1 slopes out there and I don’t see a problem right now unless, until they get, the problem I think arises when you have this area being graded and not established at this time so I think there is mitigating improvements that can be made to help that condition. I think the issue’s between the, inbetween the two lots and I really don’t think that they’re, there should be, it shouldn’t be an issue. I mean it’s something we could probably work on with the developer to see if there’s any other improvements that can be made for that area but it’s a pretty small drainage area. We just threw that in there just as you know, as an item that potentially might have a problem in the future so. Larson: Okay. Aller: Paul was that Phase II? Oehme: That is in Phase II, right. Aller: So it will sit for a year and we’ll be able to see the impact of that drainage a little bit. Oehme: Exactly. Exactly. Aanenson: And the challenge is too to get the right house matches that. whether it’s a lookout, walkout or whatever. Oehme: And that comes through with the building permit and it’s something that we noticed on the plat and the grading plan but you really got to look at those details when the building permit is pulled and that fine tuned grading can potentially be adjusted. Larson: Okay. Ellsworth: Madam Chair? Bob, could you show where the creek is on this? Is it to the north of that wetland mitigation? 9 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Generous: Yeah, it’s up in here. Ellsworth: Oh, it’s further north. Generous: You can see it better. It’s this blue line. Ellsworth: So it’s quite a ways away from that new pond. Generous: The pond will be over here and then the mitigation will be somewhere in this area. Ellsworth: Is that where you talked about moving the pond to the west as far as possible? Generous: Yes. Ellsworth: Thank you. Sorry to interrupt. Larson: That’s okay. While you’re on that page, can you explain to me which lots that are referenced on page 10 in the second paragraph having Hamel loam which is a seasonally high water table less than 1 foot from the surface and the Lester-Kilkenny soils which is, has a seasonally high water table of 3 feet of the soil surface. Surface. Gosh, I can’t talk today. And is that a problem? Or is it just, is that just drain tile fixes everything on those. Oehme: That’s another case too where when the building permit comes in we might look at adding additional drain tile to those areas. Additional. Larson: But where are those particular lots that are being referred to? Oehme: Yeah, it’s kind of hard to reference on the drawing that’s shown here but. Larson: Can you take that map and put it on the thing over here? Ellsworth: Bob, use your mouse and show us on this. If you know where they are. Generous: I’m not really sure. I don’t read this as well as Terry does. Aller: It’s stated Lots 1, 2, 3, 41 and 42 in Block 3. Aanenson: Correct. Larson: Block 3’s the southern portion? Oehme: Yes. Aller: It’s right across from that parking. Larson: Is there like a dip in there or what? 10 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Oehme: The reference. Doll: There’s a drainage swale. Aanenson: There’s a drainage swale at the bottom part of the park. Oehme: Right. There’s a drainage swale through those back lots on Lot 3. I think the USGS map that our water resources folks were referring to is kind of a general nomenclature for the soils that potentially could exist in this area. You know when the building, the building pad and the road is improved, you know we always look at those soil types and make sure we’ve got enough drainage out there to handle any surface water or ground water that potentially might. Larson: But it’s not necessary for the other lots? I mean. Oehme: Well and again I think it’s a different soils type that he’s referring to there. It’s just something to make us be aware of. Larson: Of which I have never heard of before tonight. Or before reading this rather. Oehme: Yeah, and again it refers back to the USGS soils maps and these are the soils that potentially could occur at these locations so I think he’s maybe a little bit more detailed than he needs to be in some of these backgrounds but. Larson: You’re talking to a girl that grew up in California where we have no rain and no basements except when it really rains, it’s crazy so I just thought that drain tile was something that everybody did out here no matter where you are but maybe I’m wrong. Oehme: Yeah and exactly. When you get into these type of clay, more clay soils that hold that water a little bit longer than some other soils that drain, you know when a building permit comes in we look at those type of things and make sure we’ve got enough drain tile out here. Larson: So it’s not necessarily required on all lots but just particular lots it would be a really good idea. Oehme: Right. Yeah, it’s just an specifically in those area. Larson: Got it, okay. Well that’s all I’ve got. Doll: Madam Chair? Larson: You have more? Okay. Doll: I was just curious as to how often the City does an Interim Use Permit before all things are met. 11 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Aanenson: On a grading permit? We’ve done those periodically, especially on a larger project when there’s a lot of grading. A lot of earth being moved. It’s not uncommon. I think it was pretty standard when we were doing numerous subdivisions, especially when people were trying to balance sites sometimes between each other or, I mean neighboring properties so it’s not uncommon. The main goal is that we want to make sure we have security and an approved plan. It’s always better that we’ve got approved plans so we know what the end result is and because we’ve seen this as kind of a revised iteration of the first one, project that came through, we’re comfortable with the framework issues because we built Bluff Creek Boulevard and worked in this area so the goal is to get security. Have a plan. An approved plan and then allow them to, while we’re working on the final plat which may take some time, that they can get working on it. Aller: And then there’s adequate protection for the City then as well. Aanenson: That’s correct. Aller: When they do that grading so that it’s not just, there’s revegetation protection. Aanenson: I would say it’s very rare that we would, and the City Engineer can correct me, that we ever give a grading permit of this scale without a plan. Oehme: Absolutely. Larson: Did you have something else? Ellsworth: Yes, thank you Madam Chair. Where Bluff Creek Boulevard ends now in that, what is it round about? There’s a hill that goes up. Is that whole thing going to be lopped off? And that’s part of the grading where it’s continuous to the other development. And then one of the maps showed the development to the east. Is that, yeah. Is that platted? Generous: Preliminary plat. Ellsworth: Oh it is an approved preliminary plat? That’s higher density like to the west of this proposed? Generous: Yes, it was a townhouse project. Ellsworth: Okay. That’s all. Larson: Okay. Anybody else? Have we got an applicant that would please step up? Mark Sonstegard: Good evening Madam Chair and members of the Planning Commission. My name is Mark Sonstegard. I’m the Land Development Manager for Ryland Homes and Ryland Homes is pleased to be working again with the staff of the City of Chanhassen. We’ve done other projects in the past and we enjoy working with your city and, they’re tough but they’re fair and projects always seem to go along as planned. Ryland also believes that this site has some nice benefits for both Ryland and the City. One of the, for Ryland we’re building a little larger 12 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 lots than we normally do which will allow us to build some larger homes. Some bigger garages and things that the market now is looking for. And then for the City we’ll be collecting, or completing a collections, or collector road, Bluff Creek Boulevard and also a nice opportunity to build a city park. As staff has stated, we do plan on building the development in two phases. First phase will be about 41 lots. The dividing line there is basically sewer capacity for the southern portion. And also with the first phase we will be completing the collector street and mass grading of the city park. One of the things we’ve been working with the parks department is on a, is a possible two phased development of that park and it’s mainly, we’ll get part of the park ready and the City can work, or the parks department can complete the northern half of the park and then the southern half of the park will come with the second grading. With Ryland mass grading the site it also gives us an opportunity to have a balance area for the rough grading of our second phase so we’re not trucking dirt all over the city and outside. We also, so with the first phase will be developed in 2010. The second phase, we’re anticipating starting to do the grading in late 2011 and then complete the development work in 2012. The grading will be done in 2011. We do have some significant fills, greater than 10 feet in a number of areas and something I need to share with the staff is our soils reports and our engineering, soils engineering on the site. Right now the soil engineer is recommending 3 to 6 months of delay in construction for settlement. I believe staff report I think mentioned a year but basically what we want to do is start filling those areas late in the fall and let it sit during the wintertime for settlement and then we’ll be ready to finish grading the site in the spring of 2012 and then continue with the remaining of the development. Basically Phase II will be development will be completed in 2012 and we’re anticipating our build out of all our homes sometime in the year 2016. Ryland will start selling homes. We’re anticipating opening for sales in January of 2011 with 6 different models. Our square foot range is about 2,185 square feet to 3,400 square feet. Price range right now we’re anticipating is between $368,000 to $440,000. The homes right now are all planned to be two story homes, all with 9 foot foundations. 9 foot first floors. 4 bedrooms. 2 ½ baths which one would be a master garden bath for the master suite. 3 car garages. And basically that’s all I really have. Joel Cooper from James R. Hill is here. He’s our engineer. Both of us have been through the staff report. There’s numerous items we need to work on but we all feel they’re doable and we don’t see any issues with meeting the requirements of the City so we’re open for any questions you may have. Larson: Okay. Tom? Kathleen? Ellsworth: What’s a master garden bath? Mark Sonstegard: Master garden bath? Or garden bath term. The garden bath is an upgraded bath that you’d have a separate shower, a whirlpool tub, double vanity sinks rather than a bathroom that has just a tub and shower… Larson: I was envisioning palm trees. Ellsworth: Open to the outdoors. Aller: No questions, thank you. 13 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Larson: No? And I haven’t either. Thank you very much. Mark Sonstegard: Thank you. Larson: Okay, at this time I will open up for the public to speak your mind. Public hearing. Please come on up. State your name and address for the record please. Mike Overschmidt: My name’s Mike Overschmidt. I live at 1822 Colonial Lane, Unit 1 which is in Liberty Bluff Creek townhouses. I just have a couple questions. I’m not here with any complaints or anything about the project. I’m just really more curious than anything since I literally look out my kitchen at where the park will be. Larson: Okay. Very nice. Mike Overschmidt: It’s kind of fun now because I get to look out there and I see deer and I see turkey and not I’m going to see a park. That’s not so bad. Question, I didn’t catch when you were talking about the homes that you’re going to build. I caught 2 story, 3 car garage, 2,100 to 3,400 square feet. What was the price range? You said it but I didn’t get it written down. Mark Sonstegard: $368,000 to $440,000. Mike Overschmidt: 440. Okay, cool. Thanks. One question I had about the park. Will that park have lights? Oehme: Well typically our residential parks do not have lights for ballfields or anything like that. Those are kind of restricted to the Lake Ann’s. The bigger fields. Bigger parks. That’s one thing that when the park director has these neighborhood meetings we’ll find out what the neighborhood wants in those parks and try to accommodate the needs as best as we can. Aanenson: And to be clear, unless they put a hockey rink or something like that, but I think that’s the goal is to have a neighborhood meeting to decide what should go into the park. What features and what amenities and what the issues would be so that has not all been finalized yet. Mike Overschmidt: Okay, I understand. I caught that it was preliminary. I guess I was wondering if that was in the plans because then, again in a neighborhood park it’s a little different than in more of a heavier use kind of a park so that would be a. Aanenson: That’s correct. Mike Overschmidt: Something to consider when they have that meeting. Something I’m not clear on. The outlots, I caught that actually the park is like one of the outlots. This is creating four outlots but I wasn’t really clear on what the four outlots were. When I hear outlots I think businesses but that’s not what we’re talking about here, right? Aanenson: Right. 14 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Mike Overschmidt: What are we talking about the use of the four outlots? Generous: Basically they’ll all be for some type of public open space or public use. Outlot A will provide a connection from, for the property to the northeast. Outlot B is the Bluff Creek corridor that we’re going to preserve. Outlot C is the park and Outlot D is the storm water pond. Mike Overschmidt: Oh okay. Generous: It’s just a small one here that feeds over and then it will drain into the tributary for Bluff Creek. Mike Overschmidt: Okay. Okay, I wasn’t clear on what outlots meant. That’s useful to know. And I heard that the, I heard something about starting in 2010. Is that, you’re going to start grading in 2010? Assuming you get all the approvals of course, and it sounds like starting to sell in January so are you thinking you’re going to build like model homes for next year then? Is that what I heard? Mark Sonstegard: Correct. We’ll start development, grading, assuming we get our permit, our plan is to develop the first phase, streets this fall and start a model November-December to be open in January. Mike Overschmidt: Okay. Last question I had I think is, when the park, that’s a good picture to have up there. Where the park is there, Liberty on Bluff Creek is right immediately to the left of the line there and as I said I’m in one of the townhouses right there. Is there going to be any kind of buffer between Liberty on Bluff Creek and the park? Any, whether it’s as fence. A tree line. anything there or? I think right now it’s not, it’s kind of a swale. It’s not a creek per se but it’s kind of where water runs down. Aanenson: I think that’s something we’d have to look at with the parks department and the park director to see how that would lay out and what they, what the buffer would be on that. Well I don’t think they’ve developed a land, they’ve come back with a specific plan… There is cross access agreement with those parking lanes on the end to get access into that park from the Liberty on Bluff Creek Association but, and if we need to put steps or trails or something more significant to get in there, but I think that’s something that the park director would like to meet with the neighborhood to find out. You know where’s the best place to put that. The amenities and the buffer. Mike Overschmidt: Okay, cool. Is there, is the rest of the information that everybody seems to have, is that online somewhere? Aanenson: Yes. Mike Overschmidt: Is that information on the web site? Okay. Is that City of Chanhassen’s web site? Aanenson: Yeah, I can talk to you as soon as the… 15 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Mike Overschmidt: Oh, because I picked up the… Well cool. I have no complaints. Just curious questions. Alright, thanks. Larson: Thanks. Ellsworth: Madam Chair if I could clarify? Larson: Yes. Ellsworth: Bob, I struggle with contour lines. I don’t know if they’re going up or down. There’s the grading line on the park and then inbetween the park and the townhomes, is that down or up? Starting from the townhomes. Generous: I believe it’s going down. Yeah, to the south and west it goes deeper. So it’s like a plateau that they’re trying to create for the useable park area. Ellsworth: Yeah. Generous: Todd mentioned something like some sliding hills maybe on the south end. And then you can just see at the bottom of this, this is a gully system that goes into Bluff Creek and Terry’s talking about maybe looking at some enhancements to that to stop the erosion. Ellsworth: Okay, thank you. Larson: Okay. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Seeing nobody stepping up, I will close the public hearing and discuss it amongst you guys. What do you think? Undestad: Looks okay to me. I like it. Get something going again. Larson: Yeah, really. Yes? No? Aller: I think it preliminarily looks like a great project. It supplies the City with a park. Supplies all the people up there in neighborhoods within a half mile certainly with a park, which is the intention of the concept of our major plans and I would like to thank planning for the report because this is a lot of work. As Mike had pointed out, it is on the web site for people to look at and see. It’s an intensive report. It goes through, gives a ton of conditions. I’ve looked at all the conditions and I think they’re appropriate and I think it’s going to be a good project. Larson: Okay, Kevin. Ellsworth: Yeah, I echo Andrew’s comments quite a bit. I like how it respects the contours of the existing land. It looks like it will be a very nice addition to the neighborhood and certainly the addition of the park space is very nice and truly this being my first review of one of these, I was very impressed with the work staff and the applicant put in. There’s a lot of work and a lot 16 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 of money spent here to make this happen properly and that’s very neat to see so I think it’s a good deal. Larson: Kathleen? Thomas: I think everyone has said it best. It looks good. It’ll be good for the whole area and I’m looking forward to it too. It looks like… Larson: How about you Tom? Doll: I agree. It looks like a great project. Let’s develop. Larson: Good. I’m just so glad to see new development come in and it’s, I think the price range is just quite right on for our economy and you know it’s just right in the middle there which I think we need more projects like this so I’m certainly for it as well. So with that does anybody want to entertain a motion here? Aller: Madam Chair I’ll move that the Planning Commission approve the Pioneer Pass development including the Preliminary Plat, Conditional Use Permit with variance, Interim Use Permit and a Wetland Alteration Permit subject to the conditions of approval in the staff report with the following amendments. Letter (p) on page 22. To indicate on the last line, in place of $1,418, they now have $608 and the hook-up fee of, or water hook-up fee for $1,618 in lieu of the $3,775. Then in subparagraph (v), that estimates be modified to read assessments. That planning please check with City Council and verify whether or not we should use the word must or shall and replace the language appropriately throughout. And adopt all Findings of Fact and the recommendation. Doll: Second. Larson: Okay, with that I will take a vote. Aller moved, Doll seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of the Pioneer Pass development including preliminary plat, conditional use permit with variance, interim use permit and a wetland alteration permit subject to the conditions of approval in the staff report and adopt the attached findings of fact . CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL : Preliminary Plat creating 94 lots, 4 outlots and right-of-way for public streets: 1. Building Official: a.The developer must submit a list of proposed street names for review and approval prior to final plat of the property. 17 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 b.Developer to provide 1:200 scale plat drawing (with lot numbers, block numbers and street names only) for addressing purposes. c.Demolition permits must be obtained before demolishing any existing structures. d.A final grading plan and soils investigation/correction report must be submitted to the Building Inspections Division before permits can be issued. e.Retaining walls over four feet high require a building permit and must be designed by a Structural Engineer registered in the State of Minnesota. f.Each lot must be provided with separate sewer and water services. g.The developer and/or their agent shall meet with the Inspections Division as early as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures. 2. Engineer: a.The developer must coordinate the proposed grading within the Liberty on Bluff Creek property and the restoration with the homeowners association. b.The developer must obtain approval to complete the off-site grading required to construct a collector road- Bluff Creek Drive- to Pioneer Trail. c.If importing or exporting material for development of the site is necessary, the applicant will be required to supply the City with detailed haul routes. d.Additional catch basins will be required along Street A. The number and location will be determined with the final plat submittal. e.The developer’s engineer must work with City staff to improve the proposed drainage patterns at the back of Lots 11 through 14, Block 2. f.A drain tile service stub must be provided for any lot that drains from the back to the front. g.The low floor elevations of Lots 33 to 35, Block 1 must be adjusted so that they are minimum three feet above the high water level of the adjacent pond. h.Verify the first floor elevation of Lots 1 through 3, Block 1. i.Retaining walls constructed with the development will be the responsibility of the homeowners association. j.Sanitary sewer that is 16 to 26 feet deep must be SDR 26; sewer in excess of 26 feet deep must be SDR 18. 18 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 k.The sanitary sewer between Lots 5 and 6, Block 1 must be installed within a steel casing pipe. l.The developer will install 12-inch trunk watermain within Bluff Creek Drive. The City will reimburse the developer the cost difference between 8-inch lateral and 12-inch trunk watermain. m.A water service stub must be installed for the park area at a location acceptable to the Parks and Recreation Director. n.A pressure-reducing valve is required within the homes with a low floor elevation of 935 feet or lower. o.The developer shall install a pressure-reducing valve vault in the southern portion of Bluff Creek Drive. The City will determine the location and design of the vault in conjunction with the final plat design. The developer will be reimbursed for the cost of the vault. p.The property is subject to sanitary sewer and water hookup charges for all of the lots. The 2010 Met Council SAC charge is $2,175 per unit. The City’s 2010 trunk utility hookup fees are $2,026 per unit for sanitary sewer and $5,393 per unit for water. A portion of the trunk utility hookup fees will be collected with the final plat: for 2010 the $608.00 portion collected with the development contract is /unit of the sanitary sewer $1,618.00 hookup fee and /unit of the water hookup fee. q.All of the utility improvements are required to be constructed in accordance with the City's latest edition of Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. r.Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will be required, including the MPCA, NPDES, Dept. of Health, Carver County, MnDOT and Watershed District. s.Prior to final plat approval, the City and the developer must work with MnDOT to obtain the necessary approvals and/or agreements necessary to construct the portion of Bluff Creek Drive that will lie within the MnDOT right-of-way. t.The grade of the public streets must be adjusted so that they do not exceed 8%. shall u.The owner of the exception parcels work with MnDOT, the County and the City to determine future access to these areas. assessments v.The outstanding , plus accrued interest must be paid with the final plat or reapportioned to the lots within the final plat. 19 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 3. Environmental Resource Specialist: a.The applicant shall plant 343 trees within the development. Each lot shall have a minimum of two overstory, deciduous trees planted in the front yard. b.The applicant shall install the total required buffer yard along Bluff Creek Boulevard and Outlot C. c.The applicant shall develop a restoration plan including native plants for the Bluff Creek Overlay district north of Block 1. The plant species shall be selected from the Bluff Creek Management Plan Appendix C. The final plan must be reviewed and approved by the City before installation. d.Lots 13, 14, 25 and 26, Block 2 shall receive an increased number of evergreen plantings to shield the properties from oncoming traffic headlights. e.The applicant shall revise the landscape plan to show more variation in boulevard 10 plantings. No more than trees of a species may be grouped together. f.Tree protection fencing shall be installed prior to construction around all areas designated for preservation and/or at the edge of proposed grading limits. g.No burning permits shall be issued for tree removal. All trees removed on site shall be chipped and used on site or hauled off. 4. Fire Marshal: a.Additional fire hydrants will be required and some will need to be relocated. Contact the Fire Marshal for which hydrants are in question. b.Water main and fire hydrants shall be installed and made serviceable prior to combustible construction (2007 MSFC Sec. 503.1.1.). c.A three-foot clear space shall be maintained around fire hydrants (2007 MSFC Sec. 508.5.4.). d.Temporary street signs shall be installed as soon as construction begins. Signs shall be of an approved size, weather resistant, and maintained until replaced by permanent signs (2007 MSFC Sec. 505.2.). e.Fire apparatus access roads and water supply for fire protection is required to be installed. Such protection shall be installed and made serviceable prior to and during time of construction except when approved alternate methods of protection are provided (2007 MSFC Sec. 501.4.). 20 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 5. Park Director: a.Successful transfer of Outlot C (8.7+ acres) to the City of Chanhassen through a combination of dedication and fee purchase for development and use as a neighborhood park. b.Extension of trail (west side of road) and sidewalk (east side of road) paralleling the planned connector street south to their respective connection points at the intersection of Pioneer Trail and Bluff Creek Drive. c.Install a sidewalk on Street D from Street A to Bluff Creek Drive. 6. Planner: a.Lot 20, Block 2, shall be adjusted to meet minimum 110 feet of lot depth. b.A 30 dBA attenuation shall be provided by the building design and construction along with year-round climate control for the homes adjacent to the T.H. 212/Pioneer Trail right-of-way. c.The developer shall pay $23,649.00as their portion of the 2005 AUAR. d.The property owner may donate Outlots A and B to the City, or if retained under private ownership, dedicate a roadway/trail easement and drainage and utility easement over Outlot A, and conservation easement, trail easement and a drainage and utility easement over Outlot B. 7. Water Resources Coordinator: shall a.The HydroCAD model be revised to accurately reflect the post-development soil shall conditions or evidence be provided that soils post development will have a water transmission rate between 0.15 and 0.30 in/hr. b.All conditions for the wetland alteration permit must be met (Chapter 20 Article VI). c.Wetland I, as delineated by Graham Environmental Services, Inc., needs to be shown on Sheet 1.2 and other applicable plan sheets. d.Wetland buffers and setbacks shall be shown around all wetland features on or adjacent to the subject property on the plat and grading plans (20-412). e.Where, if at all, the buffer encroaches onto a private lot, a drainage and utility easement is required (20-412). f.Wetland buffers must be planted with native vegetation per Section 20-412. 21 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 g.Make the Soil Boring report available to the City (18-40). h.SWMP fees, estimated at $119,830.52, will be due to the City at final plat (4-30). i.The applicant or their agent must secure permissions from the Minnesota Department of Transportation to discharge subcatchment area 8S to MnDOT right-of-way. j.As stated in Section 18-40(4)2v. Drain tile service must be provided to any lots where drainage is directed from back to front. This condition exists along Street B between lots 16 & 17 as well as lots 18 & 19. Because of the presence of Hamel loam, a soil with a shall known seasonally high water table less than one foot below the surface, drain tile be extended from Lot 12 to the CBMH in front of Lot 19 of Block 2. Drain tile is also encouraged in front of lots 1, 2, 3, 41 and 42 of Block 3, and Lots 1, 2 and 3 of Block 2. The soil boring report will be beneficial in making this determination (18-40). k.The swale between Street B and Street C must be within a drainage and utility easement. Care should be taken to design the grading so that surface drainage from Street C isn’t directed into the residences along Street B (18-76). l.The outlet for Pond 2 is to be moved as far west as is practical (19-144). m.Applicant must demonstrate how the City can access Pond 2 for future maintenance. n.The outlet for Pond 6 is to be moved so that the discharge point is approximately 75 feet from the proposed location. Energy dissipation and soil stabilization best management practices such as ScourStop™, Erosion Control Blanket P42™ or similar shall be used in addition to rip-rap (18-62). o.A SWPPP specific to this site shall be prepared and submitted to the City and Carver SWCD (18-40). shall p.Areas where proposed and existing grades are to be matched be done so that no concentrated flow conditions are created. These areas include, but are not necessarily limited to, the backyard of Lot 7, Block 1, the backyards of Lots 1 and 2 of Block 1 and adjacent to the extension of Bluff Creek Boulevard at the intersection with Pioneer Trail (18-62). shall q.Type 3, weed-free mulch be used in outlot B. r.Inlet protection will be required on the existing CBMH at the northerly intersection of Bluff Creek Boulevard and proposed Street A (18-62/63). shall s.A note be included on sheets 3.2, 3.3 and 3.4 indicating that inlet protection will be required on all backyard CB until final stabilization is achieved. 22 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 t.After the slopes are graded but before the erosion control blanket and seed is placed, the use of silt fence with J-hooks, straw wattles, rock logs, bioroll or other BMP will be required to break up any run 75 feet or longer (18-62). u.Bluff Creek needs to be identified on the plan set and the SWPPP and erosion plans must clearly indicate that it is an impaired water for turbidity and that no discharge of untreated water will be allowed to the creek or to the fringe wetland (19-145). shall v.A detailed turf establishment plan be provided (19-145). w.A note needs to be included on the plan set that top soils are to be scraped and stockpiled and the soil stockpile area(s) need to be shown on the plan (19-145). x.Signage for the Bluff Creek Overlay District must be posted on every other property corner and at major lot angle changes where residential yards meet the primary zone. Conditional Use PermitVariance for development within the Bluff Creek Overlay District with a for encroachment into the Primary Zone: 1.Wetland must be protected at all times from impact. 2.Every reasonable effort must be made to avoid impacting more area than need be. Where desirable native vegetation is present, avoidance should occur unless to do so would prevent the applicant or their agent from fulfilling the intent of the encroachment. 3.Signage shall be posted at the property corners indicating the Bluff Creek Overlay District shall boundaries. The applicant and City work together to best determine location, aesthetic and message. shall 4.Bluff Creek be shown and identified on the plan set. 5.Vegetative enhancement will be needed within the Bluff Creek Overlay District in addition to the mitigation area. This area shall be planted with a native seed mix appropriate to the shall area. Trees be planted on the south side of the pond for temperature control as well as screening from the residences. shall 6.The SWPPP, erosion control and grading plans be revised to include all erosion and sediment best management practices. 7.The outlet for Pond 6 is to be moved so that the discharge point is approximately 75 feet from the proposed location. The FES can then be pulled back so it remains outside of the BCOD. Energy dissipation and soil stabilization best management practices such as ScourStop™, Erosion Control Blanket P42™ or similar shall be used in addition to rip-rap (18-62). 23 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 8.The applicant shall develop a restoration plan including native plants for the Bluff Creek Overlay district north of Block 1. The plant species shall be selected from the Bluff Creek Management Plan Appendix C. The final plan must be reviewed and approved by the city before installation. 9.Signage for the Bluff Creek Overlay District must be posted on every other property corner and at major lot angle changes where residential yards meet the primary zone. Interim Use Permit to allow site grading prior to final plat approval: 1.A SWPPP specific to this site shall be prepared and submitted to the City and Carver SWCD (18-40). 2.The erosion control and grading plan must be amended per Preliminary Plat comments. 3.The Wetland Alteration Permit conditions must be met. 4.A phasing and sequence plan must be prepared and submitted. 5.The grading operations must follow the preliminary grading plan as approved by City Council. 6.The applicant must submit a $36,500 erosion control security before grading can commence. 7.The applicant must obtain permission for any off-site grading. 8.Tree protection fencing shall be installed prior to construction around all areas designated for preservation and/or at the edge of proposed grading limit. 9.Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will be required, including the MPCA, NPDES, Dept. of Health, Carver County, MnDOT and Watershed District. 10.If importing or exporting material for development of the site is necessary, the applicant will be required to supply the City with detailed haul routes. 11.Erosion control measures must be installed and inspected prior to grading. Wetland Alteration Permit for the grading and filling of wetlands: 1.Wetland I must be shown on the plans (18-40). 2.Mitigation Area #1 must be revised to equal the 20,909 square feet of new wetland credit approved in the 2006 wetland replacement plan. 3.Wetland buffer must be extended around the mitigation area to achieve no less than 20,473 square feet and cannot include any portion of the pond. 24 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 4.A detailed wetland alteration and replacement plan needs to be developed that meets the requirements of Minnesota Rules Chapter 8420.0528. this should include, at a minimum: a.Two cross-sectional views and a plan view; b.A detailed planting schedule; c.A detailed vegetation management schedule including any mowing, herbicide application, and performance goals (note: this should include the buffer area as well as the created wetland); d.A discussion of the soils as it pertains to their adequacy in wetland creation; and e.A discussion of hydrology as it is not conclusive that there will be adequate hydrology to take on wetland characteristics. 5.A five-year monitoring plan must be developed and submitted to the City for review and comment per Minnesota Rules 8420.0810. This monitoring plan will require the placement of shallow water monitoring wells as the intent is to create a type 1 wetland. 6.A letter of credit or other surety equal to 110% of the construction cost will be required. This can be released upon the issuance of a Certificate of Compliance with Wetland Replacement Plan. 7.The wetland area should use BWSR seed mix WT1 for any temporary seeding. 8.An as-built survey must be provided to the City for review and approval prior to final seeding of the area. 9.Yellow tags shall be provided to the City after the area has been seeded. 10.The planting schedule and vegetation management plan shall incorporate the buffer area as well. 11.The selected contractor and applicant must also provide the City with a signed Board of Soil and Water Resources “Contractors Responsibility and Landowner Statement Form”. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Commissioner Thomas noted the verbatim and summary minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated June 15, 2010 as presented. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS: None. CITY COUNCIL ACTION UPDATE: Larson: Do we have any other updates that you need to speak on? Aanenson: Yes. Did you approve the Minutes? 25 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Thomas: Yes. Larson: Yes. Aanenson: Okay, I’m sorry. Yes, I should give you a couple updates. For the next meeting on thrd July 20 we didn’t have any applications so. Also on August 3 we kind of made a commitment for National Night Out that we would not hold a meeting. We’ve had some conflicts with people with that. We do have over 40 some neighborhoods that like National Night Out so we want also th you to enjoy your National Night Out so for that, so we do have a meeting on August 17 and we do have some code amendments. We may get another application in but I do also want to discuss with you, there’s some new case law that just came out that went to the Supreme Court. The City of Minnetonka, there’s an application for a variance so it took 20 years of case law and kind of turned it on it’s head. What the definition of reasonable use is so everybody’s kind of scrambling. Right now we had a case that was going to be on this agenda and we told them, based on our City Attorney’s opinion that we would have to recommend denial so we won’t be seeing too many variances right now because the definition of reasonable use is pretty narrow so have sweeping implications. So it may take some new legislature so we’re just trying to get at handle on that but I’ll be sharing that with you in a future meeting when we have more information on that but right now it has a big implication for the variances that we process. Actually the one that we were going to look at tonight was very similar to actually the Minnetonka case. Very, very similar so we gave them withdrawal and refunded their money and told them we’d have to support the denial so I’ll give you some more information on that too and maybe even have the City Attorney, if I can, come in. We have a work session for the next meeting and talk a little bit about that so. Ellsworth: Kate, it only affects future variances. Aanenson: That’s correct. That’s correct. So it just really narrows it so we do have a couple other projects that are, that will be coming forward. There’s one that’s going to the Planning Commission, just to give you an update on the Preserve. This project that’s next to this one. Third phase so 25 more lots so the Preserve is actually kind of kitty corner to this one so it’d be north and then to the west of this project. Excuse me, to the east of this project so there’ll be some additional lots. 25 more lots and that’s LBK who’s taking over that project now so that’s going to City Council. And then we do have some other purchases that are out there so we may be seeing a couple other subdivisions yet. We have some that have been picked up by other developers. Pulte’s picked up a couple other projects so they’re, those do not require replats but what we’re seeing in this market, I think we mentioned before, this was a previous plat. That’s why we, it was changed. Kind of refreshed. The lot size changed and the orientation and we may see that on a few other ones but you will probably late this fall when we kind of have that short window of trying to get construction is what they’re trying to do too. Trying to get the improvements in. Be able to pay themselves back by being able to pull permits all winter so. So we will not be together again for a month. Ellsworth: It was interesting that we talked about 200 developed lots out there that they see a market for another 90. 26 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 Aanenson: Yes. That was challenging when, exactly because we keep track of how many, Bob does a report every month of how many vacant lots we have when you actually fill in the subdivision, but that shows you that how carefully people are looking at this market and what product’s out there. This is again maybe a nitch we don’t have. We’ll probably see the one that comes into this. The Preserve is a little bit smaller lot. Probably closer to 7. This is, Bob had talked about averaging more of 12 so it’s a little bit bigger lot but then the other ones that are out there that permits are being pulled over, the older ones. The Pinehurst. The Highcrest Meadows. Some of those are, you know the traditional 15,000, probably closer to 750 plus in that price point so. Ellsworth: These would be a great lots and great view if the freeway wasn’t there. Aanenson: Yes. Fantastic views. Well that was with the noise assessment came in looking at that but you have to remember what we put, if Bob can go back to that overall and just take a minute to talk about kind of that overall. You know we potentially looked at a regional mall there so that’s going to provide some noise mitigation and you also got the high point coming off of the Bluff Creek Boulevard. Some office park. Even that triangular piece. We talked about that as a really nice visual office piece. Because that’s the highest point when you’re coming off that interchange when you see 212 looking across so that might provide some visual and noise attenuation. It’s similar to what we did when we looked at, here’s a case of a variance where we looked at the medical user right there on Dakota. Right next to the Legion. I’m sorry, it escapes me. The medical user that we actually gave them a variance to go 3 stories and the neighborhood was supportive because that actually also provides a block from Highway 5 and the noise and it’s a nice, highly articulated building. So we look at those offices down the road when that comes in, I think that’s going to provide some of that. Bob’s got it up right there. If you can point to that triangle piece there Bob. That we have guided for office in that area there so that’s going to provide a break, and then if you go up to the north of that, however Bluff Creek Boulevard, it will be circuitous through there but somewhere it will touch down on the Powers Boulevard. Somewhere through there there will also be maybe some taller buildings that might provide some of that noise break too, but you’re right. As you go further south, but then we also did provide for some low office along that property that MnDOT took. Ellsworth: So where would the mall be? Up there? Aanenson: Yeah. Ellsworth: Oh on both sides. Aanenson: It was dual guided so it could be a mall. It could be office park, yep. Ellsworth: Okay. Aanenson: But then we also did provide for some office on that southerly piece along Pioneer Trail and that would be kind of again providing that transition for a good buffer for noise and that sort of thing there too. It’s at grade and that won’t come on line until MnDOT works out the 27 Chanhassen Planning Commission - July 6, 2010 final selection for the new river crossing because that was supposedly to be a river crossing in that area so they bought that additional right-of-way… Ellsworth: You know there was one thing I forgot to mention. I was looking again back at the code and in Section 18-40, oh my gosh. It goes all the way back to, I have a hard time reading what numbers these are but it talks about a photo composite image, artistic renderings or site elevations and it has it shall be submitted. That would have been helpful to see what this looks like because with the contours, but I don’t know if that’s required. Aanenson: It’s not. We’ve done it on certain projects when we spend a lot of grading, so that was one we have asked before. We’ve had the cardboard, the illustrative that takes that space. We have asked for that before. But certainly if that’s something when we talk about a project that’s coming that you would like to say, you know then I would say give us a shout out on that. Ellsworth: Well yeah, I don’t want to add you know excess cost for the developer either. That’s not cheap to have that done but. Aanenson: Yeah. Yeah. I understand your concerns the first time going through. We’ve, because we did Bluff Creek Boulevard, we’ve all done all the projects…so familiar, I think we feel more comfortable. I certainly understand your comfort with trying to visualize, reading grading plans is always difficult. Looking at, like you said, is it going up or going down. It’s always difficult to understand that. Actually Alyson’s given us some training on reading grading plans but it’s always hard to visualize the impact, and I think that’s one of the reasons why I feel strongly about, that we as a group always go out and look at projects like twice a year to help us understand and look at the grading. How much dirt has been moved and what the impacts are. When you start talking about retaining walls, how high are those. What does that mean? What does it really look like? Like you’re saying, how are you going to see that from 212? Yeah, I think even looking at the high school site, we went out there quite a few times to look at the high school site and we went out there while it was under construction and afterwards and it’s always a good exercise to kind of how does that match up to what was really on the paper. It’s always hard to visualize so I think, I understand your concern. It’s something we find that. Ellsworth: I did that on my house that we just drew the garage in where I thought it would go and the builder’s a family person. Bill Dick came up and oh my god, your garage is 13 feet tall. In the end it worked out really nice but it surprised the hell out of me when I drove up there because I didn’t connect it very well. Aanenson: No, that’s a good point and especially because for some of you first time going through this, to get… Larson: You could stack a couple cars in there huh. Yes, we are adjourned. I assume we have nothing else? Chairwoman Larson adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 8:10 p.m. Submitted by Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 28