PRC 2010 07 27
CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 27, 2010
Chairman Daniel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Jeff Daniel, Elise Ryan, Cole Kelly and Glenn Stolar
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Tom Kelly, Steve Scharfenberg and Scott Wendt
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Stolar moved, Ryan seconded to approve the agenda as
presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Daniel: Todd, anything you want to discuss?
Hoffman: Well, nothing other than we have a Red Birds playoff game happening right now.
7:30 tonight out at the. They’ve won. They lost and they won 1 or 2?
Ryan: One.
Hoffman: One, and so now they’re hoping to win this again tonight. If they win tonight they
play?
Ryan: Thursday away. So we’re done with home games. It’s a double elimination and so if we
win tonight we play one more game and then see where we go from there. It was a successful
season.
Daniel: Oh I would say. Absolutely. Alright. Thank you Elise.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Cole Kelly: Comments on page 19 attributed to me I did not make.
Daniel: Oh!
Cole Kelly: It might have been Tom Kelly, I don’t know.
Daniel: Are they controversial?
Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Cole Kelly: No.
Daniel: Okay. Right here? Same thing with the farmers market.
Cole Kelly: Yeah.
Daniel: Alright. Then it was Tom Kelly. Not Cole.
Cole Kelly: I’m assuming. I don’t know who it was.
Stolar: Actually it might have been me.
Daniel: Glenn. So page 19, it reads, same thing with the farmers market. We’ve tied it in.
That’s Glenn Stolar. Okay. Now it’s official. Excellent, if there’s anything else, why don’t we,
outside of that, why don’t we make a motion to have that changed and then approve it.
Stolar: So moved.
Cole Kelly: Second.
Stolar moved, Cole Kelly seconded to approve the summary Minutes of the Park and
Recreation Commission meeting dated June 22, 2010 as presented and amend the verbatim
Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated June 22, 2010 on page 19,
changing a comment attributed to Cole Kelly to Glenn Stolar. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
APPROVE SEVERE WEATHER POLICY GOVERNING CITY OF CHANHASSEN
OWNED AND/OR OPERATED OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITIES.
Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Daniels. Just with we’ve had a lot of weather events this summer
starting kind of early spring with some rain out’s with softball and some severe weather that we
always kind of keep an eye on with our department on a daily basis. Really kind of prompted us
to take a look at this and kind of formalize more of a policy that can kind of govern you know
kind of our decisions and make it easier and consistent with our decision making across the
board. With not only athletic events but also playground program or any type of events during
the course of the day that are park and rec in the city is sponsoring with that. Attached you’ll see
a draft, a kind of stab we put together for that just to you know kind of cover a board number of
different weather scenarios as related to tornado type of situations, thunder, lightning, and cold
weather, blizzard type of situations that occur in the wintertime with our skating rink and outdoor
programs that we have. Really the draft policy is put before us tonight just to kind of take a look
at just to provide us with you know some base knowledge or base education on making good
decisions as it relates to our customers that are out in our parks on a daily or nightly basis and
really the main focus of the policy is really to protect our citizens so staff is, staff’s
recommendation tonight is that the council or the commission take a look at the policy and if
there’s changes, and this is a draft copy. If there’s changes or wording that you’d like to add or
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delete, please feel free to do so. It’s staff’s interest tonight just to make sure that the
comprehensive policy that we can use in a lot of different situations as it relates to running our
department and running the city so. And with that we’ll open for discussion.
Daniel: Okay. Any comments by the commissioners?
Cole Kelly: Yes, I have a couple. In my days when I was involved with the Minnesota Youth
Soccer Association they had a general rule when they saw lightning that you couldn’t start a
game back up for 30 minutes because of you know lightning, the possibility of it coming back is
pretty strong. I don’t know if there’s any standards. I don’t know if we’ve talked to our lawyers
to see about you know the legal liability of what the rules are but that’s just what I’m familiar
with.
Stolar: And Bennett Park also does 30 minutes. I noticed that one too, it’d be 30 at Bennett.
Hoffman: And we have 15 noted?
Stolar: Yes.
Hoffman: Right.
Ruegemer: A lot of the, some of the information that I had seen was 15 to 20 so.
Stolar: Maybe see like if any other city around here does 30 but Bennett does 30 and there
soccer. Were you talking United or CAA?
Cole Kelly: I was talking about the Minnesota Youth Association.
Stolar: Okay. Because I think Tonka United also does 30.
Cole Kelly: Well you have to if you’re in the Association. It’s the whole State of Minnesota.
Stolar: So maybe that’s what Bennett’s driven by too is Little League. So maybe that’s part of
this is, if there is a league, you know a league group policy will supersede this if it’s longer.
Something along those lines.
Hoffman: Or we just take it to 30 minutes and make it consistent.
Daniel: Yeah, I was just going to say why don’t we just make it consistent. If that’s the case
that some of the organizations are already going down that path.
Cole Kelly: I just think you know sometimes the storm goes by so fast and you go why do we
have to wait 30 minutes but then you look at the legal liability side of things and you know if
somebody gets struck by lightning, if you start after 15 minutes and they start sighting all these
other groups that do 30, I think we’re hanging ourselves out a little far.
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Hoffman: It’s our hope that once this is approved that our, all of the organizations that utilize
our facilities will receive copies of this and start to include that in their current information and
participant information so they understand because this is a point of a lot of you know, people
get upset when you cancel for various reasons and so the more communication we can give.
Daniel: And Jerry where did you get, where do you sight this information from?
Ruegemer: This particular.
Daniel: Just the section I mean basically. I mean it’s, obviously there’s, I’m sure there’s a lot of
information out.
Ruegemer: What particular?
Daniel: Oh any event. I mean just basically the weather policies. I mean is there something that
we’ve adopted from the National Standards or like the Park and Recreation suggestions?
Ruegemer: More city. A few city based policies that I had come across and I kind of went on
Google and did some National Weather Service type of terminology and definitions.
Daniel: Great. Alright.
Ryan: And one other thing that I was thinking about, especially today is heat advisory. A lot of
times parents get confused on whether you still play because I know Minnesota’s under a heat
advisory right now. So just that there’s a policy that you continue to play but you know coaches
or you know the people in charge are going to take extra precaution to make sure that people stay
hydrated or whatever the wording is.
Stolar: Well you can put that wording here. Good point. Put you know there are no heat
cancellation policies although we highly recommend when playing in hot weather, be sure
there’s significant water and potentially wet towels. That would, with baseball they said some, it
was an email. It wasn’t a policy but we had baseball a few weeks ago and they said please bring
wet towels. Cold towels for your kid. Just some, the league sent it out or tournament host sent it
out.
Daniel: Hey I was reading the tornado safety and maybe I just, reading through it. I guess one
thing that is, that’s a little fuzzy is you’ve got the comment avoid using the telephone, but make
one call. And I realize it’s important absolutely to notify the park and recreation department
about the situation. Is there anyway we could possibly, is there anyway to clean that up a little
bit because I understand what you’re saying. Yeah, you do want to avoid making telephone calls
but in situations, I don’t know it just.
Stolar: Well you could just word it saying please notify the park and recreation department
immediately. Outside of that please avoid using your cell phone.
Daniel: Yeah, make it just a little bit clearer. What are your thoughts?
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Ryan: Maybe seek shelter first and then yeah.
Daniel: And he has that.
Hoffman: What are commissioners thoughts with the warning and the watch?
Stolar: I was thinking it’d be good if you wanted to highlight you know just some titling but I
like having it there to say the difference because.
Daniel: We’re under a tornado watch right now and there’s games being played.
Stolar: Yeah.
Daniel: I mean and if you look south it’s sunny. You know and you look north and it’s
Armageddon so you know it just depends upon, I think from a warning standpoint, any time a
warning is issued, whether it be in the county or whether it be you know either by county or by
city specifically, but typically I think they do them by county don’t they? For the most part.
Then obviously we, I don’t know what, what the City’s position’s going to be because our City
covers pretty much north to south, almost the entire county so that’s something to certainly take
into consideration but I think yeah, I mean if it’s a watch.
Stolar: That actually you bring up an interesting question because you know let’s say there’s a
warning issued in the next county over but it’s headed this way. Does that mean we cancel the
games because we don’t want people heading out as it’s coming this way?
Hoffman: Well I hope the National Weather Service, if they issued, is heading our way would
include.
Daniel: They typically do that.
Hoffman: Yeah, because by this policy it’s only if we’re included in that warning.
Stolar: So are you saying by Carver County then or what about Hennepin if it’s up by Lotus
Lake and all? I’d say Hennepin or it could be.
Ruegemer: Southern Hennepin.
Stolar: Southern Hennepin or Carver County.
Hoffman: Yeah, we’d better clarify that for our area.
Daniel: Yep.
Cole Kelly: Well also I mean if the storm’s coming they include Carver anyway with Hennepin
County. You know if it looks…
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Stolar: I guess if we go a little bit further. You know if it’s further off, some people might say
you know at 5:00 there’s a warning two counties over. Oh I’m not going to go a game because
it’s headed this way.
Cole Kelly: Well even if there’s a warning here and I have no problem with the wording if
there’s a weather watch we’re going to hold all the things scheduled because we have you know
more watches where nothing happens.
Stolar: Yes, agreed. I guess where I’m going with this, as long as we clarify where we’re
talking about the warnings so they don’t interrupt, in fact that a warning two counties over means
our games are automatically cancelled. It’s only if it’s our area that we cancel so I mean, it
doesn’t necessarily say that here. It just says…
Cole Kelly: I see what you’re saying.
Hoffman: And we’ll change that otherwise people will read this and say in the state?
Stolar: Right in the state and.
Daniel: And I think, and you hit it right on the head because I do, I think they do pretty much by
county but again south, depending upon the direction it goes through, it can go through New
Germany and it’ll be sunshine here and we’ll never see you know so I guess we ought to be
careful a little bit. I guess maybe what you could do if there’s any concern, not that Jerry or
anybody else in the park and recreation departments are meteorologists but I think we have a
pretty good hand on what the National Weather Service is going to say and to a certain extent
you can make some judgment calls. You know because again.
Hoffman: We’re not going to make it, we enact this as a policy. We’re not going to make a
judgment call on a warning.
Daniel: Okay so warning, if it’s in the county period?
Stolar: Any time it’s for southern Hennepin I think we should just say it’s cancelled.
Daniel: Alright.
Hoffman: Because if we ended up with a problem and the lawyer said well who made that call,
we just decided we’re going to make that call because we were watching the radar.
Ryan: But do they specify on the warnings that it’s southern Hennepin or is it, usually it’s just
Hennepin County.
Daniel: No. Well Hennepin’s extremely large so they’ll say northern, western. Eastern.
Stolar: Sometimes they do. Not always.
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Ryan: Not always.
Daniel: Well and again, they’ll list it just by county on the.
Cole Kelly: I think we keep it to Carver County myself because we’re opening up a whole bag
of worms if we say Hennepin County. I’m not sure we want to go there.
Stolar: Well except that if you have an event at you know soccer at Lotus Lake, more than likely
that a Hennepin County warning will affect them than a Carver County.
Ruegemer: I imagine there’s overlap on that.
Stolar: Yeah.
Cole Kelly: But if there’s going to be overlap they’re going to, the National Weather Service is
going to state Carver County or they’re going to state northern Carver County or eastern Carver
County. I think we stick to Carver County. Otherwise we’re asking for a bag of worms I’m not
sure we want to go fishing with.
Stolar: Well then one other point. We have one park in Hennepin County don’t we? Cathcart.
Hoffman: Cathcart’s still in Carver.
Stolar: It still is?
Daniel: It’s in the city of Chanhassen. I think we have, what’s the sliver of property so we get
qualification?
Hoffman: We don’t have anything, we don’t have any parks in Hennepin County.
Daniel: No but we have property though. The City correct?
Ruegemer: Little sliver.
Daniel: Little sliver.
Hoffman: Eden Prairie, we have that piece yep.
Daniel: Oh that’s right. The little nub. So that doesn’t count. Okay. So I guess the point being,
I agree with Cole that maybe we should just be limited to Carver County.
Hoffman: Most of the weather comes from the west. If they say Carver County I think we’re
probably almost 99 times out of 100. You don’t see many watched coming from the east,
although I’m sure it does happen but.
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Cole Kelly: Usually if that happens it’s a storm that goes around and comes back.
Daniel: So, alright. Why don’t we, so I guess is there any specific changes that we need to cite
within our motion at all? Unless if we’re done discussing this. Outside of that I don’t know
Jerry if you’ve got some of those comments put down.
Ruegemer: Yeah, I wrote them down.
Daniel: Okay. We’ll just reference them as a general statement for somebody the changes.
Hoffman: As noted.
Daniel: As noted please.
Cole Kelly: I think what, everybody’s agreed on the changes that Jerry’s written down?
Daniel: And that we’ll just basically cite warnings specific to only Carver County.
Stolar: And the 30 minute.
Daniel: And change the 30 minute, okay.
Stolar: And the wording, just update the wording for the use of call and make your initial first.
Ryan: Heat advisory.
Hoffman: Heat advisory. Got them all.
Daniel: Okay. Let’s make a motion.
Cole Kelly: I move that we go with the recommendation changes on the weather safety policies
as written down by Jerry.
Daniel: As noted, okay. Second?
Ryan: Second.
Daniel: All in favor.
Cole Kelly moved, Ryan seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend
that the City Council approve the Weather Safety/Policies with the noted changes. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Hoffman: Thank you. And as Commissioner Kelly noted, this will help, this will be approved
on consent by the council. It will go in our file and we’ll mail it out and if there ever was an
issue with this, it’d be one of the things they would be pulling out and looking at. Did we follow
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the policy? For example in a, if we have an issue and it’s a weather watch and we didn’t cancel
and something happened at the parks they’re going to say well by your policy you don’t cancel
so you know you followed your policy and something happened and that’s, things happen so it’s
good to have the policy.
Stolar: The league itself can choose to cancel if they want.
Hoffman: Correct. Yeah. And once you get to the park, depends on which parents are there and
who’s making the call and how close the severe weather is. If they try to hang on, some of them
by the skin of their teeth and the lightning one is good so thank you.
Stolar: Are you going to post this on the web site also?
Ruegemer: We sure can.
Daniel: Alright, let’s move on recommendations for CIP.
COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION FOR 2011 THROUGH 2015 PARK AND TRAIL
ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP)
PROJECTS.
Hoffman: Thank you Chair Daniels and members of the commission. Last night the council
started their CIP discussion for 2010 and beyond. We were here for a work session for
approximately 2 ½ hours and they did have some comments which I’ll go over with you on the
park and trail section of the CIP. Primarily what our interest is tonight is to get the process
started and then to finalize it in August so we want to get some of your ideas flushed out this
evening. Let me start with the cash. We’re still two and three-quarters million dollars in the
bank right now. Somewhere in that vicinity. Revenues again are down from that high of $2.2
million dollars back in, which year was it? ’06. And so they’re down to $83,000. Last year we
had forecasted $100,000. We’re forecasting $100,000 for this year. Pretty confident we’ll reach
that but again it may be slightly under or slightly over. And then we have recommended that as
far as our revenue projections that we lower 2011 through 14 from $300,000 to $200,000 per
year. So there’s some money in the bank. Bank from past years. You can see the average
income has been $818,000 per year over the past 9 years. We’re recommending, staff is
recommending that you allocate approximately half a million dollars per year over the next 5
years for $2.5 million. Now that can fluctuate. You know you can go a million in one year and
$200,000 the next and $300,000 the next so don’t get hung up on that $500,000 has to be
allocated every single year. It can, and it can be slightly less than that. It can slightly over than
that. It’s basically your recommendation but that’s one of the guidelines that we have. And
again that guideline is made because we cannot take this fund in a negative position without
authorization by the council so we simply don’t want to recommend that. There are a variety of
projects that you have in your packet. Projects underway. Projects currently in the CIP and then
projects which we’ve talked about in the past. The general I think tone of tonight’s conversation
will be that more things are going to have to be taken out than added to the list. I would
recommend you start obviously from the top. Those projects that you’re committed to doing and
we’ll go through those specifically one by one. And then after that, just for the courtesy of the
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commission, I’m not going to go through each one of these improvements item by item unless
you ask specific questions, but if I could why don’t we start from the top with those that we’re
committed to or projects that are underway. The first one is Highway 41 pedestrian underpass
and trail grant match so I think everyone’s aware of this. This is a million dollar grant. Federal
grant to build an underpass on State Highway 41 from the Longacres development. All the way
up to the middle school and right now we’re exploring taking that up to Highway 7 at a crossing
where we would have a stop light crossing. It also includes the underpass into the park and then
a stairway connection, the stairway connection or a hill maybe not as steep as Curry but close at
this location. And our allocation is currently at $400,000. It may go higher depending on how
much, what the cost comes in. If you go ahead and authorize extending the trail. It currently
stops at the middle school and we’re suggesting to the commission and the council that we finish
this line out up to the intersection. There’s no time like the present. No time like when you’re
doing a job to finish a job and also we want to get up to that stop light so we have a signalized
crossing for this section of trail. It’s just that the County grant stopped at the location. We’re
interested in seeing that connected to the north.
Daniel: So we’ll be looking to put the trail on the east side or the west side?
Hoffman: It’s going to be on the, it’s proposed on the east side.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: And it’s proposed on the east side for a variety of reasons. Primarily among them,
you have trails that come out. These east/west trails that come out and then if you connect that
with the trail on the east side you don’t have to cross the road so you come up. You can come up
all the way around and go back. Generally you want to put the trails on the side of the road
where the people are. It makes sense. People show up at the intersections. They don’t have to
cross the road to get to the trail. They go north or south and they stay on the side of the road
where they want to return back to their home.
Daniel: I just saying there’s a convenient amount of land on the west side.
Hoffman: Yep, there is.
Daniel: That is undeveloped so I mean with the exception of the park all the way down to the
shopping mall.
Hoffman: Yeah. The trail is proposed to go in the ditch line on either side and the ditch line is
actually more conducive for a trail on the east side than the west side. If the trail went on the
west side you would have to then take it into the park. It’s not a part of the comp plan to do that.
This trail is mapped on the east side. That’s what the grant application is approved for.
Daniel: Okay.
Ryan: Can I ask one question just in terms of allocation of funds? So when do the funds
actually get pulled out of the budget? When everything is closed out and complete? Because
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with this it’s in progress and it’s $400,000 but it doesn’t come out of the account until everything
is complete? Is that how that works?
Hoffman: Most likely the County will send us a bill at some point and that will probably be
towards the conclusion of the project. I’m not sure how they’re going to work their accounting.
They may send us a project at the conclusion of each calendar year. But most likely these funds
will be expended in 2011 or 2012.
Ryan: Okay.
Daniel: So essentially you said the County’s going to take it up to the middle school.
Hoffman: Correct.
Daniel: Excellent. Well that’s the most difficult portion of the, because after that actually you’re
right. It’s pretty wide open because you’ve just got to go over Chaska Road and that’s it.
Hoffman: We would like to continue it to that intersection and go across at that location.
Stolar: And why are you continuing for that intersection? Is there another trail set over there or
not?
Hoffman: Then you can get to a signalized crossing point and if you get to this intersection you
then can press the button. Walk across the highway. Highway 41. Get to the other side and then
walk north on a, or either side you can actually walk. So you can walk north into Shorewood at
that point. You can cross either to the east or west, or north/south.
Stolar: Are there trails over there on the north side of 7 over there?
Hoffman: There are sidewalks to the mall.
Stolar: Gotch ya. Okay.
Hoffman: That’s the destination is the.
Daniel: But not only that, just south of the mall.
Hoffman: North of the mall is the LRT.
Daniel: Yep, well north of the mall is the LRT but I’ll say just what’s the mall right off the
southwest corner? There’s a path right there.
Stolar: That’s what I’m saying is there a path there.
Daniel: Yeah, you just go through the parking lot.
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Stolar: So this connects you to a path here and then you can walk through the, what is it Cub
Food over there. Right, and behind there is the LRT?
Hoffman: Correct. But you would have to do that on the street.
Stolar: …but you can still get to that so that’s the whole idea is to connect it off all the way to
that.
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: Okay.
Daniel: Yeah, and there’s also one that will take you again on the south side of that Jerry’s Tile
and the one that’s in, the mall that’s in our location. There’s a path that takes you back in the
neighborhood past Herman Park. Kind of off in that area. Southwest corner, right here.
Hoffman: Right here.
Daniel: Yeah, that little path right there. That’s just right behind the mall. So as you cross here
you can come back down and then from there you get access, then you go right up to the trail
that goes along 7.
Stolar: That’s where, okay. Got it.
Daniel: Yep.
Stolar: Okay, so you can connect over there?
Daniel: Correct.
Stolar: Okay.
Daniel: Yep. So I mean that way.
Stolar: So it’s somewhat of a circle then that you can make over there.
Daniel: Oh absolutely and that’s going to be the nice thing about it. I mean you can.
Stolar: Which eventually when it connects to the Arboretum then you’ve got that whole circle.
Daniel: And you know again it’s not as convenient but the LRT, your best connection’s off of
Church Road up here because it’s just right off of it.
Stolar: Got it.
Daniel: Right by Cathcart because it goes right on the corner of Cathcart.
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Stolar: Okay.
Daniel: But yeah, I mean there’s no, if anything it’s going to allow you to walk to the mall
safely.
Stolar: Gotch ya.
Daniel: You know where Cub Foods is so.
Hoffman: We’re a couple years into that project and then it also includes this, either pedestrian
stairway or trail access coming out of the Highover neighborhoods and you can see it’s just a
little red line right underneath the underpass right here so that we have an easement between two
lots and that’s basically to connect these two neighborhoods down to the underpass. It’ll be
either a stairway or.
Stolar: Let me ask you a question on that one. Is there another process by which they can get to
that?
Hoffman: They could. They could go one way or the other. So it could either go up to Lake
Lucy or down to Longacres.
Stolar: That’s $100,000. I don’t know if we want to test the waters for a little bit to see.
Hoffman: Well it may or may not end up to be $100,000. I would recommend that you keep
that allocation in there to help cover the cost up here. So we’ll get you those costs and what we
think this connection is going to be and what this connection would be.
Daniel: Right, and I think the opportunity to go from the middle school out to 7 and 41 is
intriguing. I mean that’s.
Stolar: That’s what scares me actually. Or are they going on the road now as it is?
Daniel: They’re on the road. Yeah, they do because I drive it almost every day in the summer
with baseball and there’s a lot of people. They have no choice. As soon as they get out of the
middle school, they’re right on the road there.
Stolar: Got it.
Daniel: So I mean that’s something that we’ll evaluate and obviously Todd we’ll have to
consider that within the future CIP proposals. It’s not in the budget this year or next year but
again something that we have to at least consider and possibly plan for depending upon the
success of this project too. At least I would say we suggest.
Cole Kelly: Can I ask for a clarification?
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Daniel: Yes.
Cole Kelly: Now as we’re going through each of these, do we go through them and vote or are
we looking at the overall picture? You know I looked at all the projects underway and then the
projects you have in the CIP and that comes up to slightly over a million 7 dollars at this point so
are we better off looking at what do we think we should be spending and then take the top
priorities and funnel them into what we’re going to spend this year and try to figure out that way
or are we going through each one and kind of voting on it?
Stolar: These are ones that we already committed to.
Daniel: Yep.
Stolar: So these are committed to.
Daniel: These were committed to last, essentially last year.
Cole Kelly: Okay. So they’re in the budget this year?
Daniel: These are.
Cole Kelly: Okay. That’s all I wanted to know.
Hoffman: This is in the budget. The Pioneer Pass park acquisition is committed to by
commission and council action. It’s not currently in the CIP. It will have to be added to the CIP.
Stolar: Right.
Daniel: That one has been a change based off of the development of the neighborhood which.
Hoffman: And the next page.
Daniel: …last year so there was no definite timeframe.
Cole Kelly: Okay. So it’s a matter of when to do some of this stuff?
Daniel: Yeah.
Hoffman: And the Pioneer Pass park acquisition was formerly in a CIP. Then it was taken out
because we didn’t know development was imminent and now it’s back and by your action,
recommendation to the council and by the council’s action to pass the, approve the preliminary
plat with the park in place, now we have to move forward with the acquisition of that parkland.
Stolar: From a process perspective, typically, like at the next meeting we’ll get this layout of the,
of each year and then we’ll vote on all of that in August. This is more of a discussion.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Cole Kelly: It’s a discussion, okay.
Daniel: To understand the projects.
Cole Kelly: But these first three projects are a done deal, is that what I’m understanding?
Stolar: Pretty much, yeah. One of them we committed to the County, right. One we committed
to the developer. The only one is the $100,000. That’s the only one that is still a choice by us.
Hoffman: Yeah it is.
Stolar: But we need the money just in case that’s part of the overall…
Hoffman: And we’ve moved forward with the, with the engineers in this project and they’re
working on that currently.
Stolar: Okay they are, so it’s.
Hoffman: Now’s the time to talk because we’re spending money.
Daniel: No. This has been in the budget for a long time and a lot of people, I mean if at the end
of, in 5 years it’ll be again between this project and if we are going to move ahead with, if the
council so desires, a path or bike path that gets us out to the Arboretum. I mean we have
centrally you know pedestrian paths that lead to the two biggest tract, at least park and recreation
facilities within our city so.
Cole Kelly: So right now for sure we’ve got $690,000 coming out of the budget?
Hoffman: Okay.
Cole Kelly: Okay.
Daniel: Yep.
Hoffman: And we move into programmed projects, or projects that are currently programmed
and.
Daniel: Picnic tables and park, fitness equipment.
Hoffman: Look through them quickly. That is in there every year and then in 2015 it would be
extended. Rec Center fitness equipment, that stops in 2012. There was a 5 year commitment by
the commission and the council to update the equipment which was the original equipment at the
Rec Center and that’s been very well received.
Stolar: Wasn’t this, is this the one that’s not out of CIP now though?
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Hoffman: It’s out of the capital replacement fund. You see the funding source down below? So
that’s.
Stolar: Got it down so it’s two different. Right, it’s not park dedication stuff.
Hoffman: And generally for commissioners, when you build it once you pay for it out of park
dedication. When you go back in and you redo it, then you’re paying for it out of the general
capital fund. Park dedication fees are intended to build new capacity in our park system.
They’re not intended to go back and replace playgrounds or ballfields or build, re-tar parking lots
or anything of that nature. Park dedication fees are taken from new development to increase the
capacity or your ability to serve recreation needs in our community.
Stolar: And given that, you know we’re asked a couple of questions and I know we’ll get to it
later but I’ve always wondered, picnic tables and park benches. Unless it’s a new thing like
when we bought the, or the Hilltop, really those should be out of, I know it’s not a lot of money
but those theoretically should be out of replacement.
Hoffman: Any replace, any ones that are replaced, yes.
Stolar: Okay.
Hoffman: Yeah. New ones would come out of the new fund. Trees, we’ve increased that. It’s
at $25,000 per year and that’s basically to try to help offset some of the Emerald Ash Borer
that’s going to be headed our way. 2015 is a typo. It should be $25,000. City Center Park band
shelter poles, that’s for 2011. That’s really a project that is currently not in the favor of the
council and so we’re not moving forward with that project and so if it’s something you want to
move forward you’ll have to.
Daniel: We’ll just make a note so.
Stolar: That’s one I guess I would prefer, just giving you advice for what we review in August,
I’d be in favor of pushing it out a long ways. A long ways.
Hoffman: And again in the big picture what you’re doing is, we forecasted potential future
revenues in park dedication by build-out from 20 to 24 million and so you’re currently dealing
with a two and three-quarter million dollar bank account. $100,000 a year coming in in
revenues. But over the long span throughout our build-out we should be able to put back in that
growth 20 to 24 million dollars in park dedication fund. It’s a little bit fuzzy because of how
much land you’re going to take versus park fees and those type of things and what happens to
land values and park fees in the future in the future so don’t lose hope. Some of these projects
will come back and be constructed at some point in the future. Either by you as aged
commissioners or by some future commission.
Daniel: Some future commission members.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Hoffman: The Bluff Creek Drive gap trail is the trail section to connect this last piece of Bluff
Creek Drive from where the terminus of the 212 project down to the trail head at the LRT. And
so it’s an important link. We really only have 5, 4 or 5 important missing links. This is one and
the thing that’s critical about it or important about this is it’s our first and only link currently that
would happen to the LRT for the southern, in the southern portion of our community. And so
right now people are riding on the street. This is a pretty uncomfortable street to ride or walk on
because it’s fairly narrow. It was built narrow intentionally to try to keep the speed down of the
vehicles but if you’re biking that section of trail or road you’re going to be in conflict with
vehicles currently. If that trail was there it would be a much nicer connection to the LRT.
Daniel: Can you get the LRT now off of Pioneer? From Pioneer going west? Or east, excuse
me, from 101.
Hoffman: Going east?
Daniel: I can’t remember. Yeah. Going past.
Hoffman: You get to the LRT here.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: We made that connection during the 1997 referendum.
Daniel: That’s what I thought.
Stolar: So the red up there, that’s a trail and then the two blue lines going.
Hoffman: Are proposed.
Stolar: Are proposed, but right now how would someone get to one of those trails? Like from
Bluff Creek, how would you, within that top circle you have.
Hoffman: How would they get there now?
Stolar: Yeah.
Hoffman: Yeah, where’s our other city map?
Daniel: How would they get there.
Stolar: If we were starting to build a trail. Is there another trail?
Daniel: There’s a trail that stops right there.
Hoffman: That trail’s just not up there. That map’s…
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: Okay, so there’s a trail right there.
Daniel: From the 212…when we went through that.
Stolar: Oh that’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so as part of 212 they build it that far and we
just need to.
Daniel: Correct.
Stolar: Got it.
Hoffman: This stub is now in and they built it down to that point.
Stolar: I see, okay. And so then they come down and they go to the regional trail and to get
back into our trail system they’d have to take it to that point over by Eden Prairie and then come
across.
Hoffman: They go to Eden Prairie.
Stolar: …do a circle.
Hoffman: Or they could go to Chaska and loop back up around on Audubon.
Stolar: Got it. Okay, thank you.
Hoffman: You go this way.
Daniel: And we are basically, from here to here there’s nothing to create that loop so this is one
of the gaps we talked about. It was determined too expensive right now.
Stolar: …trail gap then down here. Yep.
Daniel: To 101.
Stolar: Yep.
Daniel: And 101 we’ll just wait obviously until that’s done.
Stolar: Yep, okay.
Hoffman: And the Bluff Creek Drive trail gap has been estimated. As you recall we have a
pretty firm estimate so sometimes these numbers are not quite as firm because we’re basically
estimating off of a per lineal foot cost. This has actually been designed to some degree so that’s
a fairly solid number.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: So from a development perspective, is there any development that will go along this
area?
Hoffman: No. The Klingelhutz property or the Klingelhutz estate could be developed at some
point.
Stolar: But that’s just a small piece.
Hoffman: But it’s not likely. These lots are there and there’s really no other project. And what
Glenn’s referencing is many times development of trails go with some kind of either road
projects, sewer project, commercial or industrial or residential development and that’s nothing
that we forecast.
Stolar: How’s the sewer around here?
Hoffman: Yeah, how’s the road? The next one’s the pedestrian trail to the Arboretum and that’s
on the south side of the highway from the entrance to the Arboretum at this point to Lifetime
Fitness at that location. It does not include the underpass and the half a million dollars and so the
underpass would need to be a separate project at this location.
Daniel: I kind of remember Todd, is there within the formal transportation budget a plan to redo
that intersection at all? I know they’re going to take out the hill. That’s the plan, right?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Daniel: Going southbound.
Hoffman: Long term.
Daniel: Long term, okay but nothing within the short term where we could piggy back off of
that?
Hoffman: And if, no. Not that we could piggy back… And if this was approved by the State it
would be designed so that in the future the next road project would take off just from the
southern terminus of this box culvert so the first section of road would be designed so that box
culvert would be in it’s permanent location. And so that first section of road would be
constructed or designed.
Daniel: And I think right now what our plan is is just to utilize the semaphore. Stop lights and
the pedestrian pass across there.
Hoffman: Our plan is to continue moving forward hopefully with pursuing a grant for that
underpass.
Daniel: Okay.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Hoffman: Then you’re aware that this grant has been approved, the underpass at this location.
Daniel: Yep.
Hoffman: And so that will be constructed in 2011-2012 with the surface improvements at that
location. So then with this trail that we just went over, you’re starting to get that full loop all the
way around Lake Minnewashta. Pedestrian trail to the Arboretum. Trunk Highway 5 underpass
at Minnewashta and that’s our, take a look. It’s a million dollar project but our park dedication
fund contributes $80,000 so that $80,000 should be in the committed category at this point. Our
$80,000 is locked on this contribution for this grant application. Chan Nature.
Stolar: You said, do you know if it’s 2011 for sure? As far as when they’re doing the project.
They’re doing it next year?
Hoffman: They may have accelerated it. Let’s go with 2011. If we change it I’ll get that
information back to you in August.
Daniel: I think they’d tie it in when they’re putting the stop lights in aren’t they?
Hoffman: Yeah. No. No stoplights. Just surface improvements. Turn lanes.
Daniel: But they’re not going to put stop lights now?
Hoffman: No stop lights.
Daniel: Oh, I thought they were too. Huh.
Hoffman: A stop light is not warranted there until, if an entrance road was put into the
Arboretum, a secondary entrance road and it’s all generated on trips. There’s got to be sufficient
cross trips there to trip the usage numbers for the semaphore to go in.
Daniel: For the State to justify it then?
Hoffman: Yes. It’s by trip calculation. Chanhassen Nature Preserve trail. Final phase. We
have $90,000 and that’s to pay for this last section of trail at the Nature Preserve. Still in lieu
right here. This when it’s done and the last piece. This is development driven so you have to
have it in the CIP at some point. We have to build this last piece whenever this lot sells and
develops. Our development contract with the folks who built this area of our community said
that when that lot is developed, this trail is built and then we pay for the cost of the trail. The
City pays for the cost of the trail. So it’s our estimate that $90,000. It may be in 2012. You
could put it in 2013. You could put it in 2014. As the development comes in we do the project
for the money and it just comes back to… Rice Marsh Lake trail is again significant section of,
one of the significant missing segments. It comes around the south side of Rice Marsh and then
connects to an existing. This is an existing bridge on 212 and it’s right in the Eden Prairie side.
Our project would build the trail from it’s current terminus along a sewer line and then over to
the Eden Prairie border at that location. And then this section would come in via development.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
When these properties are developed we would make that final connection. The total loop
around Rice Marsh once Eden Prairie brings it over, Rice Marsh is, or excuse me, Eden Prairie is
on the hook through Bearpath to build their section of the trail down to Lyman and so we would
connect Lyman Boulevard to the bridge overpass/underpass up to this trail and then all the way
around Rice Marsh Lake and going all the way around Rice Marsh is about a 4 mile trail loop.
Stolar: And Eden Prairie doesn’t have their side in yet?
Hoffman: Eden Prairie doesn’t have their side in. They’re planning for it. There are two
remnant parcels of property here that we’re negotiating with the State. That we want to acquire.
They will give us either acquisition through some form of a purchase agreement or a contribution
or some kind of agreement that we make with the State or they’ll grant us an easement for that
trail at some point in the future. We also have some water resource money that is considered for
this project because they want to put some ponding there. Potentially do some storm water
replacement projects in those properties. These are remnant parcels that were severed when
Highway 212. These parcels went all the way down to the lake and they were severed by 212 so
you’ll leave a remnant parcel and then the developers, the landowners have these pieces to
develop which they did. The property north is very isolated. Difficult to access. Basically the
property owners were paid for it when they bought, either the right-of-way for the road or these
properties so it’s devalued. The State now owns it because they purchased it so we’re hoping to
get it for a reasonable investment.
Stolar: That’s would be the City as a whole, the water resource one is getting it and then we
would…
Hoffman: Could be some park dedication money if we want to build the trail. We hope we
don’t have to pay for it but we’ll see. If we don’t pay for it we’ll just go for an easement and
then I don’t think the State’s going to come in and develop around there. They would just own
the property which I don’t think they want to do. It would probably just, just as soon transfer
over to the City so we would have the management responsibilities for it.
Daniel: And what about that extra 150 feet that’s undeveloped but yet clearly a path on the north
side?
Hoffman: Oh at Rice Marsh? That’s in Eden Prairie.
Daniel: I know. Is it, is there anything they can do on that?
Hoffman: The property owner won’t allow them to put it through. They actually, I think I told
you the incident that happened. They actually kept mowing it and now they have to stop
mowing it because when they mowed it, it inferred that the City was taking care of it and
managing it as a trail and then a woman stepped in some kind of a hole that was on that section
and had a severe leg break. Sued the City and won the case so there was a substantial award by
the City of Eden Prairie so now they stopped. They probably have signs if you haven’t been out
there in a while. But they stopped maintaining that section.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Daniel: You can still walk through.
Hoffman: You can still walk through it.
Daniel: Do they have, I think is the property, where’s the property stop at?
Hoffman: Probably out in the marsh.
Daniel: So they could just loop around, something like we’ve done over and just put a little
marsh bridge.
Hoffman: You’d have to build a boardwalk, yeah. I’m not sure, I don’t think they will. I’m not
sure, you know I would say cities last forever. This gentleman will not last forever or the couple
will not last forever so eventually when the property sells or changes ownership they’ll get that.
Daniel: And they just can’t do.
Hoffman: They could do eminent domain. They could but apparently they choose not to.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: Liberty at Creekside trail is a piece of, this is all in now. Again this is blue. You can
see we need to update our published map. And then the last section of trail. The 2005 MUSA
area and we talked about it last night. If you remember 2001, 2002, 2003, big development
years. Everybody was trying to find land. In the 2005 MUSA area you could not be developed
until 2005. This MUSA is Metropolitan Urban Service Area and so the Met Council would not
service it with sewer and water until 2005. Just about that time everybody decided we thought
this would all be built out by 2010 at the current rate of development. Obviously things changed
and some developments started but they didn’t finish. One of those was Liberty at Creekside and
that was this section of trail. The bridge is in place on Highway 212. There’s a development
that, housing development which will take place right here. When that development goes in, that
trips the trigger to make this final trail connection and we’ll probably come up this way instead
of going the other way to Pioneer Trail instead of going this way. And that will conclude just
about 7 miles of trail from Highway 41 to Pioneer Trail. It’s kind of the backbone or the spine of
the City’s trail system. It’s a natural resource based trail. The Bluff Creek Drive trail, or Bluff
Creek trail and people access it from a lot of our community. They like to use it because of it’s
beauty. It’s nature and they loop back around so it’s a significant trail. There’s been a great deal
of investment leading it up to date and every crossing currently is below grade so there are no at
grade crossings for that entire trail section. There may be one in the future. That would be at
Degler property, right at this location. Like all the other, they’re all underpass locations all the
way up through and across Highway 5, Coulter, the railroad tracks and so this 175 again just
needs to be put down in the future at some point. When development occurs that trail’s going to
have to go in. If you say oh, hang on. We don’t have the cash folks to put that trail in, all those
houses are going to get built. Those people are going to move in and you’re not going to come
back in 5 or 10 years and put that trail in their back yard so. We don’t know when it’s going to
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
happen but you know you should push it out there. If you think it’s closer than 5 years you would
want to include it. If you think it’ll be less, greater than 5 years you could push it off…
Daniel: Well when that happens too, I mean we also, when those developments happen we
certainly can’t panic too much because I mean we also got the incoming.
Hoffman: Cash.
Daniel: Cash, so it’s an offset.
Hoffman: Highway 101 north Pleasant View connection.
Daniel: Doesn’t hurt as much.
Stolar: Exactly.
Hoffman: That’s the final piece of trail from Town Line Road down to Pleasant View and then it
also connects over to this trail stub right here so it’s an, backwards L section of trail. Good news
here is that the engineers have applied for a grant to upgrade Highway 101 and they’ve included
at least this section in that grant proposal so if it is approved we’ll get this section built and then
we’d have to come in and connect this section at this point. $400,000. Again that was one of the
projects that we did estimate and the high cost mainly because of the walls that you need to build
along 101 and then some water issues in the ditch and Pleasant View.
Stolar: So if we get the grant, well depending on when, it would drop down?
Daniel: Does Dan still live there? So I mean is that part of the reason why it’s going to go
through.
Hoffman: Dan’s there?
Daniel: Yeah, he lives right up against 101.
Hoffman: Manchester Park, Phase I development. May not even know what Manchester Park
is. It’s right here at the end of Manchester. Let’s take a look at this one. Zoom down. So this
location right there. This is the west water treatment property that was acquired.
Daniel: Oh yeah.
Stolar: We saw that what? 4 years ago.
Daniel: I don’t think it’s even talked about until now.
Hoffman: So right here is a piece of property for a park and a water treatment plant. The west
water treatment plant and so the parkland contributed to the acquisition of that property. We
don’t anticipate developing any park amenity until the water treatment plant goes in so I think we
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
could slide this out. The water treatment plant currently is scheduled in 2016 but it’s
development driven and so until that area’s fully developed out and the water treatment plant is
an $11 million structure so it’s going to take some time to get that project planned and the park
basically goes on the top side and it’s accessed by Manchester.
Daniel: So how we’d come up with the name Manchester?
Hoffman: Because of Manchester Drive.
Daniel: Oh, there we go. They didn’t get too creative did they.
Hoffman: Roundhouse Park, Phase II playground is $25,000 in 2014. Skate park replacement.
Stolar: Actually I’ve got to ask the question. So when did this first appear?
Hoffman: Probably 1995.
Stolar: Okay. When we hit 25 years maybe we’ll.
Hoffman: It appeared the first year we put the playground in and so playground’s are developed
in two phases. 5 to 12 and 3 to 5 so the toddler playground is typical what you’re looking at
here. You’re looking at a toddler playground that goes alongside the older kids playground.
Primarily the older kid’s playground, the 5 to 12 is put in first and then you just have the toddlers
that will play on it under supervised care by their parents. Skate park replacement, 2014.
$50,000. We continue to put some money into that thing for refurbishing and repair. It’s very
popular. I think by the time we hit 2014 we’ll be well overdue for some of the replacements.
Daniel: Have you been out to the one in Mound yet Todd?
Hoffman: Excuse me?
Daniel: Have you been to the one in Mound?
Hoffman: Mound? I’ve driven by it, yes.
Daniel: You’ve got to go get, park and go look at it though. It is spectacular.
Stolar: This is one, this is part again of the capital replacement fund. My question is, is this
something we want to move forward because it’s getting, we need to replace that equipment.
I’m thinking maybe at least for now we might want to move it, and we said we shouldn’t split it
right because it’s better off just doing it all at once. I mean this is one I would consider
potentially for the latest 2013. Maybe 2012 because the equipment’s getting old there.
Hoffman: It’s getting to the point where the investment we’re making in repairs is really not the
worth the time and material that we’re putting into it.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: I mean I don’t think 2011 would be a good year anyway, even though it’s also out of the
capital replacement fund. It’s not out of the park dedication but 2011’s going to be a tough year
no matter what for everybody.
Hoffman: And the other thing about the capital replacement fund is, you’ve got to take multiple
shots to make sure that it gets through so just because you say you think it should go in 2011, it’s
not necessarily approved by the council because now it’s going to compete against dump trucks
and all the other equipment that is purchased so.
Stolar: I don’t know, at least as a discussion for August I’d like to maybe propose it be in 2012.
Daniel: Might be a good idea.
Cole Kelly: I think that’s a good idea because you know you say it’s deteriorating, you know
then if we wait 3 years, I mean we’re just throwing bad money against bad.
Stolar: I don’t know Todd, or do you think we should put it in 2011 and just see what flies?
Hoffman: You could sure try. 2011. 2012. Take a walk out. Take a look at it.
th
Stolar: Well I did when we were at the 4 of July so.
Ryan: So when we, when it comes out of the capital replacement fund do we know before City
Council or are you just make a recommend? We make the recommendation.
Hoffman: We make a recommendation. Staff makes a recommendation. So once you confirm
your recommendation in August, I submit that to the City Manager. The City Manager presents
that to the City Council. Then if they want to ask questions of the commission, they may ask for
additional information from you. If they want to ask questions of staff, they’ll ask questions of
staff.
Stolar: For this one in particular, do you know as a rough cut what you think you’re spending
this year in fixing?
th
Ruegemer: Well it’s hard to say. I know we just did a repair before the 4 and there are things
that happen.
Hoffman: Couple thousand bucks.
Ruegemer: Yeah.
Stolar: I mean that would be just a good footnote. Say a couple thousand bucks, $2,000 to
$3,000 a year that we’re spending a year keeping that up to date. And not really gaining
anything out of it.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Hoffman: We’re just holding steady. Obviously, I think it’s, there’s no doubt you can say that
facility is, has paid for itself.
Ruegemer: I guess part of that capital conversation too is replacing the asphalt. The asphalt is
getting extremely bumpy and rough.
Stolar: So there’s a danger factor there somewhat. Well, danger factor in the skate park too.
Ruegemer: Yeah, so I guess that maybe should be part of the conversation…
Hoffman: Sugarbush Park playground Phase II. Again another Phase II. Tennis courts. Big
dollar amount. The tennis courts basically what we’re talking about here is a new double court
out at Roundhouse Park. It’s in the park master plan. Again we’ve been waiting since the, you
know the residents are saying well you put it on the plan. It’s never here. We have tennis courts
at North Lotus, Meadow Green, City Center. One at Lake Ann. Lake Susan and then the Rec
Center and what this park is designating is it’s not just your normal neighborhood park. It’s a
little larger and we want to put tennis courts out for that section of town. This also includes
rebuilding two courts at the Chan Rec Center. If you’re familiar with the courts on the south
side, they sank the first year they were built because of settlement of the soils that were out there
and we basically patched it and put a drain in. We wanted to drain the water out of the hole. It
held up since then but we need to replace, rebuild those and then that would include resurfacing
the remainder of our courts at Meadow Green, North Lotus and the other courts do a resurfacing.
So that’s what’s up with tennis courts. Lake Ann Park, boat access dock. We currently do not
put a lot of docks at our access points. Lotus Lake has one. Lake Ann does not. Lake Susan
does not and so this is, these two docks both at Lake Ann and Lake Susan are in response to
people that launch their boat and then they have difficulty accessing their watercraft because
there’s no dock at the access.
Daniel: I did not know that.
Hoffman: And then all the projects currently not programmed. There are a variety of them.
Quickly, Pioneer Pass neighborhood park development. We’ve got that one in two places and
now we’ve got it in, this is for construction and so when do you want to do the construction once
you get the land? You know the neighborhood’s going to be developing 94 homes. When do
you come back and put the park in? One commentary about that is, Ryland has been supportive
of this acquisition, which is not always the case. This is our first neighborhood park acquisition
in 15 years but the ones before that weren’t all easy. We had a lot of contention. Roundhouse
Park for example, very contentious acquisition through the developer and so at least in this case
it’s my opinion that we should continue to work with that developer. If 94 homes get built up,
I’d hate to see us deliver a wheat field to the 94 families that are there. It just depends on how
fast it gets built up so I would encourage you to move that forward based on what you think the
development. They think it’ll be full by 2012, depending on sales. Or 13. Highway 41 trail
extension to Highway 7. We had that in there and we talked about it. Scheduled $125,000. It
may be less than that. Bluff Creek trail. Lyman to Pioneer. That section is, well that’s been
included. No, it’s planning. $20,000 in planning. So that one’s been, we talked about it but this
is planning now. Lake Ann Park ballfield safety netting. Those were kicked out. Projects that
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
were kicked out for Fields 4, 5 and 6. Playground, Phase II playground Power Hill Park.
Another Phase II. And you can sneak under the, I just didn’t want to get your mixed up but you
can see how far back some of these went. 2006. 2007. Hockey boards and lights for
Roundhouse. Arboretum Business Park trail. Lot 12, Phase II. Pioneer Boulevard gap trail.
That’s the trail that came in along Pioneer Boulevard at this.
Daniel: Between Powers and.
Hoffman: And Lyman to 101. This section from Powers over to Highway 101 on the north side.
And our thought at that time was just to allow, it’s very expensive. It was to allow Pioneer Trail
to be upgraded as a County road and then add it on as a part of that project. Bandimere
Community Park expansion and that’s to acquire these two properties that are to the north at
Bandimere Park. So those two parcels are 5 acres.
Daniel: Those two homes?
Hoffman: Yep. These two homes. They’ve expressed interest in working with us. Their first
asking price was $1.7 million and at that point we’ll wait around and see if they come up for sale
and then look at purchasing them at that time. Well if you’re going to ask for a price, they’re
going to give you one…
Daniel: I mean just fair market value of the homes, I mean what the house would sell on it’s
own.
Hoffman: Yeah, the house and the lot. There’s 5 acres there. 2 ½ acre lots so I think we’ll be
seeing parkland but that’ll be some future negotiation if it happens. There’s also some attempt to
work with the State on a future access at that location so, it’s not dollars. I don’t think you have
to dedicate it in the next 5 years but if it happens and we can strike a deal with the property
owners I think it would be something we’ll talk to the commission about. There’s a bunch of
buildings. City Center Park warming house. Expensive buildings. 275. Recreation Center
ballfield safety netting. Same thing as Lake Ann. What you’re hearing from the constituents and
from users that we get a lot of foul balls coming out. They would like more safety netting or
more netting but you know, the more you put up, there’s still balls going to fly out so you’re in a.
Daniel: I don’t know.
Hoffman: We had some people that were hit and.
Daniel: I don’t remember too much. I mean has it been that chaotic? I mean it’s once in a while
and do you get that from almost any direction.
Hoffman: And you get it from almost any city from any ballfield.
Daniel: Yep.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Hoffman: Disc golf contribution. $20,000. We’re talking about potentially moving that,
advancing that. Taking a look at the Bandimere site.
Stolar: Actually I think we’ll keep it right where it’s at, 2011.
Hoffman: Alright, perfect.
Stolar: If we look here. How good were we at predicting back then.
Hoffman: Yeah, that’s pretty good.
Stolar: That’s amazing.
Hoffman: Bandimere Community Park shelter. Bandimere Park ballfield safety netting. Lyman
Boulevard park north acquisition. This one is again development driven. Want to get you
familiar with these as they come in. This is the one of the Klingelhutz properties in town. This
one’s John Klingelhutz. Located right here. So that’s the property. If it develops we’re
proposing a neighborhood park down in this vicinity. And basically what you’re saying is in the
neighborhood sandwiched by Highway 212, Eden Prairie, Lyman Boulevard and 101, that
neighborhood, this is your neighborhood park so there’s a sidewalk and a trail system that winds
it’s way through. It’s centrally located. The other thought is that if you don’t want to do a
neighborhood park there then you basically are telling these residents that they need to walk
through Springfield to get to Bandimere Park to serve as their neighborhood park. Obviously not
as convenient. Not as much ownership for the neighborhood but it’s, you know it’s a judgment
call. Our park Comprehensive Plan does call for this, and this has been in negotiation. Has been
in planning works for about 15 years and so there’s development has come in. It’s gone out. It’s
come in. It’s gone out and again they’re in agreement that they’ll work with us. It would be just
about outright dedication of 4.5 acres. We wouldn’t have to pay any money for it but this would
be development cost. Playground accessibility improvements. Lake Ann amphitheater and
ballfield shelter, and those are the projects. So those are a laundry list of projects that have been
brought up in the past and may not happen or they may happen at some point in the future. It’s
staff’s recommendation that you talk about them tonight. Get some sort of semblance of comfort
with where you’re headed for August. I’ll utilize what you’re saying and what you’ve said so far
and I’ll make a final recommendation for you for August and then you can utilize that to shift
things around and make your final recommendation to the council in August.
Daniel: Perfect.
Stolar: And you’ll give us that standard layout you give with each year and then the projects?
Hoffman: Yep.
Daniel: Glenn needs to visualize.
Stolar: I need to visualize. I also have question as a part of discussion in August, can we talk
about the actual fees that are being charged.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Hoffman: Sure.
Stolar: Because I, you know looking at this we haven’t seen them for a while and you’re saying
the market’s not great. If you look at what Eden Prairie charges or Bloomington or Plymouth,
we’re under those. You know it’s not a lot of money difference but my thought was, you know
is this the time for this group to discuss maybe moving up the single to $6,000 and the multi-
family to $4,000. Just a couple hundred each.
Hoffman: It’ll will never happen.
Stolar: Understand.
Hoffman: Probably not the time to talk about it. The pressure we’ve been receiving for the last
2 years is to lower these and to, and everybody in the state’s been receiving that pressure,
especially in the metro because these are based on land values. The land values that are currently
based off of our $125,000 per acre and so we were pushing up land purchases of a quarter
million. $175,000 but now land purchases are back down. What we’re paying per acre for the
Pioneer Pass is about $82,000 per acre. Now granted that is every acre on the site and so it
includes, what they paid is 82-5 for this whole property that they’re developing and they’re going
to give us 8.7 acres of usable so they’ve already asked for a reduction in that fee and our
response is no. You’re giving us 8.7 usable acres and when you pay for all of that land, some of
that land isn’t usable so you have to take that out of your formula and come up with your usable
acre land cost. They haven’t responded yet with what they think that cost is but we’re clearly
now down closer to that $125,000 that we used to calculate that $5,800 per house. If you saw it,
if you read an article it was Lino Lakes. They’re half of what we are and so we think, we were
very aggressive and rightfully so because of our land prices and our marketing. People wanted
to be in Chanhassen. Developers had no problem paying the $5,800. That gets directly
attributed to the cost of the house. People come in and buy the house. Pay that as a part of their
house purchase and then it goes to build parks and trails, but all of the pressure we’ve been
getting for the last 2 years has been to lower that. Lower that fee.
Stolar: Okay then let’s cut back on the parks we give to you know, then we don’t build parks,
right? I mean there’s something’s gotta give here right and if we, if it costs us too much to build
a park, right? Yeah, you cover the land but this fee’s supposed to cover more than land. It
covers the development of the park or development of the trail. So to me the issue is, fine.
We’ll cover the cost of the land. You’ll have a wheat field for your development. That simple
because we will run out of money. Right, now I understand when further development comes up
but at the same time right, we know the costs go up there too. The other thing is just deferring
anything we get until that money comes.
Hoffman: Yeah. It’s not a perfect scenario. In talking with our legal counsel, what they say by
State law what you can do is you can evaluate out what it’s going to cost to build out your entire
parks and trail system and then you can decide what dollar amount that’s going to take and you
can take all the lots that are left in your development, in your community and you can say okay.
Divide that by how much it’s going to cost. But again those dollars may be, that may not be
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
$5,800. That may be $10,000 a house or 12 ½ thousand dollars a house and that’s just not going
to be the defensible. It may be. Our attorneys say it would be but it just is not going to be
politically available to us so I think we’re in probably the top 5% in the state and what people are
telling us is that those fees are high enough. Depending on where we go with development
you’re going to see additional pressure. The City’s going to see additional pressure to lower
them.
Daniel: I think also, I mean I understand what you’re saying Glenn and certainly on the surface
in comparison to what we have within the market, but if you look at those right now and some of
those cities, Eden Prairie. There’s not a whole lot left for them to develop so obviously they
need to, they can, and we’re in the same boat to a certain extent. Although there are probably
some larger areas compared to Eden Prairie that we can develop but we certainly want to make it
competitive and attract and don’t want to create any excuses. Not that somebody’s going to look
into your land, you know your park acquisition fees per unit are way too high but still
nonetheless it’s, you know if this is a standard, it probably wouldn’t get too far with City Council
anyways, wouldn’t you agree? As far as raising fees.
Stolar: That’s their, so they have to make the political decision.
Daniel: Correct.
Stolar: We have to make the decision that makes financial sense for the City but also for the, for
what the goal of the park dedication fee, fund is to achieve, right? And it’s a balance. So I’m
not saying we’ll go to $10,000 or anything which is just a little bit, and Todd knows where I’m
coming from. That number there, that 539 in 2014 bothers me. I don’t like going below a
million.
Daniel: I agree.
Stolar: That’s what bothers me so I’ll just push out spending because I don’t like going below a
million in this one.
Hoffman: That would be appropriate.
Stolar: And that’s really the, we talked to City Council a few years back about that just in case
an opportunity comes up. The ballfield at, the lights at the Chan High School which we ended
up needing. Town ball ended up needing those. We want to try to keep a reserve here that
allows us some flexibility and 539’s too low to me. I mean and a million, well actually when we
said a million prices were a lot higher for land and so maybe 500 is the equivalent now.
Hoffman: Well if the commission modifies the expenses to go, average $500,000 you’ll get back
up to a million if you look at expenses.
Daniel: And I agree. I mean certainly the last thing we want to do, I think all the commissioners
were on board last year when we went through the same process. That we wanted to keep that
million dollar cushion.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: Yeah.
Daniel: And the last thing we want to do is having to go back to the public and ask for another
referendum because again that’s, in case something does happen where we don’t have any
funding at all. Or have to go.
Stolar: Well something like the Bandimere purchase. That might be something where we won’t
have $2 million dollars but the opportunity there. Those big things.
Hoffman: Bandimere or Lake Ann.
Stolar: Right. Lake Ann. Some of the other on the other side comes available. That’s what we
want to save a referendum for is something that’s tangible. Very large that people can make a
voice one way or the other.
Daniel: Acquire the entire land going around, how’s that?
Hoffman: All of it, that’s in the comp plan.
Daniel: It’s all in the comp plan. Okay, well excellent.
Hoffman: We’re asking the commission for your final comments and then we’ll formulate that
recommendation for August.
Daniel: Alright. Okay. There’s no motion that we need to make Todd is there? Is there any
other discussion that needs to be done on this? Cole?
Cole Kelly: Well, what I see is for 2011 right now we have $770,000 that’s spent. I mean it’s
not spent yet but it’s.
Daniel: Committed.
Cole Kelly: It’s committed to be spent and so I guess the question for us is, what other priorities,
where do we see them for this year and how much down do we want to, do we want to spend a
million dollars this year? Do we want to spend more than a million? Less than a million? And
if we’re at, I think Todd told me we’re at $2.75 million roughly so with what’s dedicated, you
know now we’re down to $2 million as what’s in the bank.
Daniel: But you’ve also go to include new development. Additional revenue streams.
Hoffman: $100,000.
Cole Kelly: $100,000 so whatever you spend below $2 million you can add $100,000 to. And in
some, I mean some of these things need to be done and some of them should have higher priority
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
than others. I guess we have to decide what’s got a higher priority and where do we go from
there.
Hoffman: And Commissioner Kelly, the commission has done that year in and year out. Some
years they focus on, we’re going to do trails because trails are, we want to finish out the trail
system. Some years they’ve said we’re going to do all safety improvements so it’s up to you to
decide. You talk to your neighbors. You live in the community. What do you think is important
to do and what do you think is important to, it’s just as critical to decide well what can be held
off because there are certain improvements that don’t have to happen today and can happen into
the future when that other $20 million dollars comes into the door.
Stolar: Related to that, outside of the 3 that are committed, and then the.
Hoffman: $80,000 for the.
Stolar: $80,000 for the Parkway. There’s no other committed activity so.
Daniel: Yeah we were I think pretty clear on that last year.
Stolar: Right. And that would be it again so some of these things that are 2011, not the little
ones. Not the little ones, the $10,000 for the benches or those sort of things, but we have the
City Center Park band shell. We talked about pushing that out to whenever. But the Bluff Creek
Drive gap trail and pedestrian trail at Arboretum, both those $890,000. Those we’re pushing.
Hoffman: Those are not committed. You can put them at, you can push them out there and you
could say let’s spend all 2 ½ million next year if you wanted and then you’re not going to spend,
that’s not going to be very popular with the council if I was to do that.
Stolar: It’s not going to be very popular with us either. I say do them all for next year. So I
would just as soon, those we would want to push out even in the proposal for August that we
would probably want to push those two out of 2011, correct?
Daniel: Correct. However we’ll still have some input based off of Commissioner Kelly’s desire
for Bluff Creek. His strong opinion on that.
Stolar: I was just thinking as a starting point to go into 2012, just to start with that. And then the
other, the other question was, we had talked in our meeting last week about bringing the disc golf
up to 2011. You know we put $20,000. It may not even be.
Hoffman: It may be under 10, yeah.
Daniel: Those smaller projects become more attractive.
Stolar: Yeah, that’s kind of where I was going. And the skate park, asking about that. Maybe
again a different fund but that in 2011, and then what we’re talking about is we’ve got these
commitments we’ve got, and everything else we’re being very judicious of finding some low
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
cost, high value, high usage things. That’s what 2011 becomes what we’re committed to and
some of these low cost things.
Daniel: Well and I think we also need to be careful in the sense that those things that we decide,
whether we push out or keep in the budget for next year, plans can change depending upon
development.
Stolar: Absolutely. Development. Grants we get and again, we’re putting in the place holders
when those things come in we go to council and...
Daniel: Right.
Cole Kelly: And we can change things around in the future.
Stolar: Yes.
Daniel: Yes.
Cole Kelly: I think who I kind of sat with this year is have a vision for what’s going on next year
and the year after but that vision can change.
Daniel: Yeah. Alright. Well if there’s no other discussion on this, I think we’ll, Todd we’re
looking forward to having our annual CIP discussion and debate and certainly looking forward to
next month’s packet so we can all be prepared coming into our next meeting.
Hoffman: And the recommendation will also, there’s also some, and you guys referenced
earlier. There’s also some hedging that goes on. You don’t want to do projects that you think
potentially could be in a grant application or a joint cooperative and so if there’s a trail project
that we think might be included with some type of a proposal in the future. The County is very
interested in seeing Bluff Creek brought down so I’ll have a conversation with Marty. You
know have you been thinking about trying to get that connection. It’s not on the County plan but
they have some interest so they would sign onto a grant application with us and so we’d take that
into consideration as well.
Daniel: On a side note, are there any grant applications we can get through Three Rivers?
Hoffman: From Three Rivers?
Daniel: Yeah. On connecting to their trails because that’s part of Three Rivers, correct?
Hoffman: Correct. Down to the trail head. They’ll be working with us on the Minnesota River
Valley connection so yeah, they have some ability. They have some cash, first of all.
Daniel: Lots of it.
Hoffman: Yeah.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Daniel: That’s what I’m saying. Yeah, I didn’t know if there was, if per se part of their program
is to issue grants.
Hoffman: No.
Daniel: If there’s application or grant application that we can take advantage of.
Hoffman: Part of their program is not to extend trails out of their designated corridor.
Daniel: Gotch ya.
Hoffman: They’re not going to build your community connections. That’s up to you.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: But they will sign onto grant applications because they support that.
Daniel: Okay. Alright. Thank you very much commissioners. Thank you Todd. Jerry.
RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: 2010 FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION
EVALUATION.
Ruegemer: Thanks again. Just wanted to thank all the commissioners that were involved and
helped out with this year’s celebration. It was a rousing success. Great set of events for
everything. Again very pleased with the turnout that we had. I don’t know if I’m going to go
through all this individually. There’s, if you kind of look at, there were specific comments at the
end that we’re going to be kind of working on into the future in relation to, to kind of having a
first aid or medical area kind of set up over on the, kind of by the east side. By the hockey
boards and that sort of thing. Working on some, a different carnival aspect for the Family Fun
Night and some other things related to the contract with that but just have a lot of positive
comments on this year’s celebration. Had you know really great numbers again for the street
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dance on the 3 and also the parade and so really just a great success. Seems like quite a long
time ago that we were here for that but just thanks again for everyone that helped out with that.
We couldn’t have done it really without, the Rotary’s just a great event, partner with us. For
that. Just individual departments with the City’s streets, utilities. Just so much cooperation with
Carver County, Fire Department. There’s just, it’s nice to work with all the different
organizations and entities of the City. It’s really a group effort and we can all be very pleased
with that. Everybody takes a lot of ownership and puts in countless and countless, countless
hundreds of volunteer hours to make this happen so we’ve got a great thing going. Now we’ve
got a lot of momentum going for the celebration and we can all be very pleased with the turnout
and the success of the event.
Hoffman: Thanks for helping out.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Cole Kelly: Just comments I hear out on the street, and this is, because I wasn’t there this year.
Before and after, before people who were going to be in town were looking forward to this.
They’re all excited. This is a great event. You’ve got great fireworks. I mean I’ve heard
positive comments before the event and I’ve heard positive comments after the event so I think
you guys should be accommodated for that.
Stolar: I have a couple comments. One, great event as always. Great job by everybody. It was
a lot of fun. Definitely had some, I had two similar to Cole’s comments. Two sets of friends
and, well a little different. Two friends who had never been to it came to it. Just absolutely fell
in love. They’d always go away and the only reason, now this was funny. The only reason they
stayed and went to it was because of the 3 on 3 basketball tournament for their kids.
Hoffman: Hey. Cool.
Stolar: Their kids played with my son and, to the festival. They always went to the parade but
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they never went to the 3 of July festival and because their sons played on the basketball
tournament, they ended up, one family ended up staying til like, well two families. Til 9:30 at
night just doing the different events because they had never been there so that was, it was an
interesting draw to get people who had never been there to the event. I do have a question about
whether teens can play at that location next year. I know you said you wanted to extend it to
teens. It’s a hard place to play for the teens. I don’t know if the older kids felt that way that
played on the court, but it’s a little bit difficult for some of the bigger kids to play there.
Ruegemer: The size of the court?
Stolar: The size of the court and that it’s not, you know it’s kind of crowded there. It wasn’t
crowded on the court but not a lot of place to move around outside of the court there so
something to think about. I don’t know if there’s anything we can do about that but if it gets too
big that might not be the right venue. It was perfect this year. If it gets bigger, it might be harder
to do that so one of the thoughts I was wondering is I don’t know if there’s a way to bring in a
portable court, if it gets big enough, for the bigger kids. But it was a great, even though there
weren’t a lot of teams, it was a lot of fun. And then t-shirt sales. Couple things. One, we did
have to close early because the Historical Society did the prize board again. Basically there was
no one could see the t-shirts by the time they started doing the drawings later so I would just say,
that’s fine because we don’t sell a whole lot at that point anyway so we just ended up closing it
down early. Probably should close down early. And then I had several comments asking why
we didn’t have t-shirts for women. Either women styled t-shirts or tank tops so something to
think about for next year. There was about 3 comments. It wasn’t a lot but it was 3 comments
where they said, you know why do they want a men’s t-shirt. Bottom line so something.
Ruegemer: That was a good point.
Hoffman: Is there such a thing Elise?
Ryan: Oh yes there is. Different fit.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: Especially for fit women who were the 3 that asked. That you know, athletic women.
Those are just not.
Hoffman: Flattering.
Ryan: A box isn’t flattering.
Hoffman: Noted.
Stolar: Yeah, those were the comments. And again, great event. Oh for the first aid station. I
don’t know if this is possible but I wonder if like Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts could get merit
badges or credits for working one of those.
Hoffman: I think we’ve got to be higher up than that. We had some significant, well you saw.
Stolar: Well yeah, I saw yeah, the ambulance. I didn’t think that’s what the first aid station
would be for. That would still be ambulances, right? Or you want actually on site that level?
Hoffman: We would like to have one on site, yeah. For the crowd size.
Ruegemer: We’ve had conversations with Ridgeview already on that and we’re kind of starting
those conversations right now either with Ridgeview or potentially with our Fire Department.
First responders.
Hoffman: And we’ll utilize it for lost and found. Lost kids. Safety. First aid.
Stolar: One final comment and I made this last year too. The Rotary does a great job helping us
and doing a lot of planning but they also get a lot of revenue. If there was some little thing they
could pick up as part of the helping defray the cost off of their margin. I know they do a lot of
work and help us with the staff. I was just thinking even if they want to potentially pick up the t-
shirts which we lost $2,800 on. I think put the Rotary logo on the back of it with, and co-market
it. That might save us a little bit of money.
Hoffman: Sure.
Stolar: And give them some, you know walk around advertising.
Hoffman: They pay some costs for what, cones now?
Ruegemer: Yeah cones. All the tents cost for the Taste.
Stolar: Okay so yeah.
Ruegemer: Dumpster.
Daniel: Oh, they’re absorbing those?
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: They are? Okay. That’s good to know. And they do a good job. You know the t-shirts
might be something to be interested in too because that could be something that they could help.
Ruegemer: Just kind of a side note, we’re talking about garbage but we did kind of have a little
bit of initiative to go a little bit more greener this year and had working with Carver County on
bringing you know specific dumpsters in for cardboard. Flattened out cardboard and kind of
separate…contamination with corn cobs and glass containers and that sort of thing and we really
did see a significant reduction of our overall celebration refuse. So I mean just talking with our
park maintenance staff that were emptying garbage cans and it was significant and they were
extremely impressed with that so we worked with Carver County on that and that’s something I
think we’re going to ask to continue in the future so.
Stolar: Yeah, I saw the organic recycling people. They actually had people there to help coach
you on what to do which helped. I saw people were asking. You know it’s nice that they’re…
you know was something different.
Ruegemer: Right, right. So, I mean it was something that for where we started, where Carver
County wanted to go to where kind of where we ended up, we really wanted, Carver County
wanted everything green across the board you know and that wasn’t in our opinion realistic. We
wanted to take some small steps and kind of work our way going forward with that and as long
as it’s truly positive with that group, and I can’t remember what group it was but there was a
specific group that, that provided the man hours for dumping you know the different, you know
corn cobs and the separation you know and that sort of thing. It worked out great.
Stolar: Excellent.
Hoffman: One other note on the Rotary scholarship. I think they grossed about $22,000 this
year and then they take 12 to 14 of that the next day and they put it right back into the parade so
cash out for the parade is $12,000 to $14,000.
Daniel: Wow.
Stolar: Oh they pay for the parade?
Ruegemer: Absolutely.
Stolar: Okay.
Ryan: And then on behalf of the Red Birds, thank you for all the cross promotion that you did. I
know everybody really appreciated, volunteering as well at the game but just drawing people to
the game, we had a good crowd there. We really appreciated that so thank you very much.
Ruegemer: This one had a pretty good turnout.
Hoffman: Great game.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Ryan: Yeah, and then with the parade. Including us in the parade and everything so thank you
very much for doing that.
Hoffman: What’s the score?
Ryan: She just called so I don’t know.
Hoffman: No text?
Ryan: No. I’m waiting for the text but she called so.
Daniel: I think it was delayed. I heard a lot of thunder out there.
Ryan: Really?
Daniel: Yeah.
Hoffman: Oh was there?
Daniel: Yeah. So my guess is it’s been delayed. You know and I unfortunately for the first time
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in 15 years didn’t get a chance to go to the July 3 party, just because it fell on a weekend and
it’s, the family wanted to get off to the cabin but we are going to go next year. We’re going to
conveniently make sure we get there because it is a blast and for friends and family that did go
up there, they were astonished. The previous year they said, it was just packed and then this year
they said it was even more people there and some neighbors who had a chance to go up to you
know. Go to the carnival and they had a very good time and so again, as usual which is I think a
great compliment and you know you’re setting unfortunately some high expectations and each
year you seem to, I don’t want to say honestly outdo yourselves but things, you know the staff
and the City is learning and developing and you know, and it’s evolving in the right direction
because really you know, you certainly don’t want any setbacks and for the expenses that we
have and for really what is I think the signature event on this side of the Cities, and certainly puts
a spotlight right on Chanhassen for one day out of the year. Especially for some people one of
the most important days of the year, it’s certainly a low cost investment because really I mean
we’re advertising to you know 5,000 people or more. Let alone the parade and let alone
everything else.
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Hoffman: Signature event in all of Minneapolis. The place to be on the 4 of July.
Daniel: But really it’s phenomenal so you know what Lumberjack Days is to Stillwater, you
know you can just list all the other events that go in the suburbs, the suburban platforms, I mean
this is certainly something that stands out now and really is becoming a tradition for most people
so again, I certainly commend you and your staff and all those who have helped and were
involved and helped out at this great event so we’ll look forward to next year and I’m definitely,
you know Glenn, you hit it right on the head. You know we’re changing our schedule to a
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
certain extent. We were talking about it. You know gosh it’d be nice to be out there right now
and.
Hoffman: Next year the street dance will be on a Sunday night. Sunday night. Fireworks on a
Monday night. And for the commissioner’s knowledge, as staff what we talk about is making
sure that every guest that arrives has an enjoyable experience. So how do you do that? You
know it’s basically infrastructure for us. Providing tents, tables, chairs, garbage, restrooms, and
then we all the other community partners that come too to put out all the things that they enjoy.
You know the beer garden, the food and you know we take care of the music and so it’s
basically, and so we’ve expanded. This event used to be a 600 chair event. It’s now a 2,400
chair event so that’s what we do. We add more tables. More chairs. More bathrooms.
Convenient locations. Rob and Jerry Chalupsky. Rob Heinen and Jerry Chalupsky, two of our
full timers, they put in a 15 and a 17 hour day. Those back to back days and they’ve done that
for 10 years and so those guys understand what they need to do and so they’re there every year.
They’re dedicated to the event. If anybody falls down, the sheriff’s department, staff, this
event’s not going to happen but why they do it is because they see the reaction from the
community. They’re just like, this is amazing. People have so much fun at this thing, we want
to be involved. We want to present a good face to the community and so they just come out and
they do a great job so. We’ve added additional, we used to do this as a staff based event and
now we’ve added your know full time and part time labor to the event and so when you see
$5,000 or $7,000 in labor, that never used to be there 10 or 15 years ago. Jerry, Corey and I did
or whoever the 3 people that were on the staff and the commission did it and the neighbors did it.
And so thank you again for all your work this year and in past years and, but that’s basically our
premise is to provide the framework and we want as many community partners as can. Why is
the 3 on 3 here? It’s community partnering and so more events that communities can do, and if
you take a look at a variety of events around the state, I was just in Detroit Lakes. They do the
Detroit Lakes Aquatenniel. Just about every event is sponsored by a different business. There’s
a contact person and so you know there’s a variety of ways to present these celebrations but
we’re always asking for you know who can do another part of the event. The parade was picked
up by the Rotary. It’s a big endeavor and you know you can go to their Facebook. Check out
what’s going on there and so things are growing. People are excited about it. We thought the
Trade Fair might stop during the transition to the regional chamber. There’s no way. I mean it
was one of their signature events so the Trade Fair continues on. The kiddie parade. We thought
that might go down. My lord, the kiddie parade was that we think one of the biggest ever and so
where do those kids come from? You know your kids, our kids grow up and get old but there’s
still more coming. They’re here and so that’s, it’s just the enthusiasm around the event and
thanks for helping us keep that up. That’s I think one of your most important roles is to be the
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ambassadors to the 4 of July and to staff and so thank you again for all you do for the 4 of
July.
Stolar: And your point about your staff and seeing them out there. They’re always smiling.
Always laughing. Always chatting with people and it’s just they’re fantastic out there.
Absolutely.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Hoffman: Over 20 part time staff directing traffic at Lake Ann just for the fireworks so they’re
out there. Where else can you get 20 staff members to work at 9:00, 7:00 to 9:00 at night.
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10:00, 11:00 at night on the 4 of July so it’s great to have that support.
Daniel: Absolutely. Alright, thank you again Jerry, Todd and to your staff and those, again
those who helped the City and volunteered.
Stolar: Is John still sleeping from the event?
Ruegemer: He recovered.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
None.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS.
None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Daniel: Todd, is there anything you want to highlight besides the fact that best family outing that
they noticed by Brian Leehan? Is that the Star Tribune?
Hoffman: Star Tribune.
Daniel: Excellent.
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Hoffman: That’s on the 4 of July. The Star Tribune quoted today’s best bet for family outing
is Chanhassen.
Daniel: Excellent. Anything else that you want to talk about? Or highlight quickly.
Hoffman: There’s a trail, and we talk a lot about trails. There’s a trail vacation. There was a
trail easement that was taken years ago and was just no longer needed so we’re vacating that in
the Arbor’s. That’s out by Westwood Community Church and then always take time to read
Jerry’s picnic evaluations. It’s fun to see. I read through them all. It seems like people need a
little bit more access to electricity.
Stolar: That was the one thing I noticed.
Hoffman: So we’ll work on that.
Stolar: And.
Hoffman: Lights.
Stolar: Lights.
Hoffman: They need to turn lights on when.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: Or at least directions on where to turn the lights off. I was out at the, you can’t at the.
Hoffman: Lake Ann pavilion.
Stolar: The building. Can they do it at the Hilltop?
Hoffman: Not currently.
Ruegemer: It’s photocell timers.
Hoffman: We may modify it. The difficulty with the switch is, if you have a switch you can
turn on, you have a switch you can turn off.
Ruegemer: Or leave on.
Hoffman: Or leave on, so it’s a challenge in a public setting like that. We try to make it as
automatic as possible.
Daniel: And looking at the positive about this whole deal, there’s a ton of these comments which
obviously I’m assuming Jerry business is good for the shelters.
Ruegemer: Yeah it is. Business has been good.
Daniel: Because the first time we started reviewing these there were 6. Maybe 8 and certainly it
might have been just a sample but now we’re starting to really start to see them stack up and
that’s fantastic. And more importantly you’re getting, obviously good feedback.
Ruegemer: Yeah. Just really try to kind of go there and inform people of you know keep it,
people that are making reservations after the lifeguards are off duty for the year, I certainly tell
people that. If that’s an important part of their reservation process or if boats won’t be in order
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with you know, when we close after the 16. 15-16. So just try to inform people as much as
possible. You know as we talk about in our department, put yourself in their shoes. What do
they want to know? What’s important to them? Is it portable bathrooms? You know the Hilltop
has portable bathrooms. Is that a deal killer because we’ve done a ton of weddings out there this
summer. I always make sure that, I always picture the bride going into a port-a-potty.
Hoffman: But she’s not in her wedding dress.
Ruegemer: Well I just want to make sure that there’s no surprises. That’s not a deal killer for
people and so you know that’s why I just try to be honest with people. Answer questions and
kind of talking, I’m on the phone quite a bit with people on, just talking about reservations.
Make sure they’re comfortable. I really don’t feel comfortable without people seeing the site. I
want to make sure that people go out there. Take a look at it. Is it going to fit your needs
because I don’t want any surprises when they get out there and that they’re 100% comfortable
with their purchase so to speak.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Stolar: Has anyone ever reserved both the Hilltop and the pavilion for a larger?
Ruegemer: Absolutely. Yeah, we had one this weekend or next. This weekend. We have a
wedding that they booked over a year ago.
Hoffman: What did you have out there a couple of weeks ago? 300-500? What was it?
Ruegemer: Yeah, what was that?
Hoffman: Data.
Ruegemer: Datalink out of Bloomington that day has both shelters.
Hoffman: Large event.
Ruegemer: SO we’re kind of finding our nitch a little bit. You know it seemed like a lot of the
folks they used to go to Three Rivers and you know just with having the large Hilltop facility
now, that can accommodate a large number of folks and I think also is appealing to people, we
don’t have a parking fee. So you just come right in and here’s the price. If you guys want to do
boats, I’ll invoice you for the boats or do whatever you need to do with the people and.
Hoffman: That’s really helpful and then sponsors can offer the free access to the watercraft and
Jerry just bills out the hours.
Ruegemer: Yeah, there’s no hassle with payment or anything like that.
Stolar: That’s what I did when we reserved that a little while ago.
Ruegemer: Yeah, and I think people really, oh you can just invoice me and I can pay with a
credit card? So we email it out. Boom. Done.
Hoffman: Commission up for a Herman Field neighborhood visit next month?
Daniel: Yep.
Hoffman: So we’ll go out there early. We’ll schedule that. We’ll send out a neighborhood
conversation and we’ll just invite them. Not going to talk about a bunch of hot button issues.
Just going to say park commission’s available to come out and have a conversation about present
state of your park and any future thoughts you have about the improvements or facilities so I’ll
invite Marty Walsh from the County. See if Marty or Lenny will come out from the County
because that is a connector to the regional park.
Daniel: Okay. Thank you Todd. Alright why don’t we go for the, for a motion to adjourn the
meeting.
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Park and Recreation Commission - July 27, 2010
Cole Kelly: So motioned.
Stolar: Second.
Cole Kelly moved, Stolar seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission
meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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