PC Minutes 06-21-2011
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 21, 2011
Chairman Aller called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Andrew Aller, Kathleen Thomas, Tom Doll, Mark Undestad, Kevin
Ellsworth, Kim Tennyson and Lisa Hokkanen
STAFF PRESENT:
Bob Generous, Senior Planner; and Paul Oehme, City Engineer/Public
Works Director
PUBLIC HEARING:
REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A WATER TOWER
ON PROPERTY ZONED OFFICE INSTITUTIONAL (OI) LOCATED AT
MINNETONKA MIDDLE SCHOOL WEST (6421 HAZELTINE BOULEVARD).
APPLICANT: CITY OF CHANHASSEN, PLANNING CASE 2011-05.
Generous: Thank you Chairman and commissioners. As you stated this is a site plan review for
a proposed city water tower. The site is at the Minnetonka West Middle School. It’s off of
Highway 41, north of Lake Lucy Road and south of Melody Hill. The City in determining this
site actually did a study and there were six possible alternatives and this site was the preferred
alternative. The water tower itself, the site plan is fairly straight forward. There’s not a whole
lot of improvements that are proposed as part of the project. The tower will be 750,000 gallons
and it will serve the high zone of the community, which is basically the west and northwest part
of the city. The water tower’s approximately 170 feet tall to the very top. It’s about 60 feet in
diameter for the tank on top and it’s located just to the southwest of the high school. Or the
middle school building. In developing this site we will have to fill in the existing storm water
pond but we will replace that with a two cell pond that will actually provide additional storm
water treatment to the runoff from the parking lot area and this area of the site. There’s not a
whole lot in this thing. We will provide approx, what is it? 200 feet of piping to the existing
watermain in Highway 41 from this pipe and we will redirect the storm water pipes in the
Highway 41. I did provide you with a letter that we received from MnDOT after the report went
out to you. Basically it says we need to get a permit for those pipes. We did, have added a
condition in our recommended conditions of approval so we think it’s covered. Again the water
tower’s approximately 170 feet to the very top of the structure. To the top of the overflow I
believe it’s 157 ½ feet. The material’s still up in the air. We’re looking at either a steel column,
fluted column or a composite concrete column with the tank at the very top. The picture on the
left shows the water tower place tower and so it’d be similar to that but half the size of this
tower, as far as capacity wise. The concrete composite material has a stamped finish and we
would recommend that if that is the final design that’s chosen, that they provide a complimentary
color for the actual tank rather than the blue because that’s a little contrasting and we think it
would look a little better if they tried to compliment it a little better. Other than that staff is
recommending approval of the site plan subject to the conditions in the staff report and I’d be
happy to answer any questions you may have.
Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
Aller: I’ll just jump in real quick. Bob it’s my understanding that one of the major reasons that
we have this is for fire protection. Or Paul, would you like to answer that?
Oehme: Yeah, Chairman Aller. Yeah, that is correct. The existing tank that services this area,
Melody Hills tank is 200,000 gallon tank. It was built in 1970. Since then obviously the city’s
grown, and especially in the last say 15 years in this area, the city has really grown. Lots of
users up in this area now so one of the main issues that we have here is fire protection. Meeting
that fire code demand that’s recommended by the Fire Marshal so that’s one of the main
components in the need for the tower.
Aller: And the Melody Hill doesn’t really meet those requirements. In fact it probably
wouldn’t…
Oehme: Yeah, it barely keeps up right now and during our high summer peak demand periods
so.
Aller: And then with the pond, if I’m reading this correctly, we’re actually going to do a better
job with the new pond in reducing some of those products that are hitting the downstream water?
Oehme: Yeah, that’s the intent. We’re trying to do a better job of infiltration as well. This is a
two celled pond. It’s going to be a dry pond, similar to what’s out there today but we’re going to
try to incorporate some better infiltration practices here with the soil amenities that we’re
proposing to try to get a little more infiltration in so, that is the intent.
Aller: And then on the hard surface coverage, it looks like this would only be about half of what
the zoning actually would allow.
Generous: For the entire site, yes.
Aller: For this site. So that works out really well. That’s correct?
Generous: Yes.
Aller: I have no further questions. Anyone else?
Thomas: I do not.
Ellsworth: Andrew.
Aller: Mr. Ellsworth.
Ellsworth: Thank you Mr. Chair. You know the, where the ponds drain out into MnDOT’s
right-of-way and they look for a permit for the drainage permit. Where does it drain to from that
point and how, you know does MnDOT size these things in anticipation that others will drain
things to it?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
Oehme: Well it’s designed right now to handle the same capacity as it currently does. The
drainage outlet, and actually I should step back a little bit. There was a storm water failure, a soil
failure up in this area several years ago and this, the school district did make some improvements
which was to incorporate and construct that pond that was out there. There was some sediment
that washed down into MnDOT’s right-of-way and then ended up into the DNR pond shown
here to the south of the school district so that, the school district did clean up that area and
construct that pond. And that’s basically the flow where the existing and the proposed drainage
will end up so. Trying to reduce the rate and the runoff from the site as well in conjunction with
this so we’re trying to improve the system as best we can.
Ellsworth: Okay, thank you. That’s all.
Aller: Anyone else?
Doll: I have a question. Will you be updating the plans to address some of the SWPPP
questions?
Oehme: Yeah, absolutely and the engineer for the tank is here tonight and he’s well aware of the
SWPPP requirements for Carver County and some of those requirements so that will be
incorporated in the final design.
Doll: Okay. Does that get done before the council meeting?
Oehme: It typically gets completed, yeah. Under this scenario it will get completed because
we’re planning to authorize them to complete the final plans and specs so we’ll have that
available for him.
Aller: Am I reading the report to, we did receive from MnDOT and we also received from the
CW. The Soil and Water and all those conditions are required in the approval of this plan.
Oehme: That’s correct.
Aller: Any further questions from the commissioners? Okay. And the applicant coming
forward or the City’s the applicant so.
Oehme: City is, yeah.
Aller: That’s it? We’re going to open the public hearing. If there’s anybody present that would
like to speak, please come forward. Come to the microphone. Yes sir, if you could please state
your name and address for the record, that would be great.
Dennis Clark: My name’s Dennis Clark. My address is 6651 Hazeltine, which is also 41 there.
I was at the previous meeting where Paul was introducing his options for the sites and there were
a few citizens around that had some questions. I don’t think there’s too many citizens left
because it looks like it’s not really going to encumber too many people. Except myself. My
property, let’s see Paul can you put that up?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
Aller: Just put it on the table, if you point to the map on the table. There we go.
Dennis Clark: So my property, actually two sections here. Right here and this section here that
runs in the pond also. Runs along the frontage here a little bit. You actually look at this L, it sits
right in the middle of two different sections of property of mine. This is a big tall ridge here. I
don’t know if I can see the house on this but my house actually sits about, can you see it from
there?
Thomas: Yeah, we can see it there. Yep, right there. Oh you’re going to come in.
Dennis Clark: And I don’t know how old this picture is but there’s a driveway that comes out
here but my parking is in the front of the house here when you come out. This is a fairly unique
piece of property. I’ve been there 20 years and it’s very private. In fact I don’t have any city
water or sewer. It’s kind of a sovereign nation down there. There’s nothing to hook up into.
Working with the development on Brenden Pond, that was fairly easy and I think when you’re
paying $6,000-$7,000 a year in taxes for 20 years, you kind of decide that’s where you’re going
to live and so that property’s been forested a little bit more than this particular picture but that
house is probably another 40 feet below the existing tower, which means this tower is going to
tower over my house 20 some stories within hundreds of feet of my house. So when I walk out,
or if I want to sell this house in several years, which is my plans, when people start looking at
different properties, same type of value, this is going to be an issue. Nice place. Big acreage.
Beautiful place. Ah but, got this ugly tower sitting out my back yard. I mean it looms. It’s very
tall. 20 some stories within 100 feet. The City’d probably never let anyone put a building up
that big here. So, my issue is it’s a very logical point. I see Paul’s reports. It’s very logical
place to put this from all the you know different situations. He’s worked it out with the school. I
think you purchased property from the school there Paul? Did you have to buy that?
Oehme: We’re still working with the school district on that. We’re working out an agreement
right now. We haven’t finalized that agreement yet.
Dennis Clark: How much is that going to be?
Oehme: It’s going to be several dollars.
Dennis Clark: Is it public knowledge yet or?
Oehme: Well we’re still negotiating.
Dennis Clark: What do you think it’s going to be?
Oehme: It’ll be six figures.
Dennis Clark: So anyway I, right now we’re just, I’m just objecting to the tower. That’s my
position today. We’re going to try to move forward. A canopy, things like this, with this thing
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
as high as it is I’m, you know I don’t know how you’re going to actually do it. Do we have a
photo Paul, a rendition handy here what we kind of think it might look like?
Oehme: Well.
Dennis Clark: I tried to work my printer.
Oehme: Did you?
Dennis Clark: I’ve got a picture.
Oehme: This is the exhibits that are on the website right now. I don’t think I incorporated the.
Dennis Clark: Okay, I can give you one picture here but you’ve got to pass it around to.
Aller: You can just go ahead and throw it on top of the other one and it will show for everyone
there.
Dennis Clark: Okay. My printer didn’t work down here. This is my driveway right here. This
is my parking area. So this is what I see when I walk out in the morning. Open up my garage
door. There’s a rendition that was provided. That’s what I’m going to look at. So now the
question is, you know what. Where. What can we do? What can I do? Probably nothing you
know at this particular point. I’m not sure exactly what I’m entitled to but I’m you know with
the situation, you know it’s definitely, you know it’s going to take a unique property and devalue
it and might even make it impossible to sell. I mean I don’t know where that sale point would
be. I’m 57. I’m planning on being out of there in 5 or 6 years. Hopefully property values will
come back a little bit but that’s my issue so at least I’m going on record to say no, I don’t want it
in my back yard. Who would? Since I guess I’ve kind of teased Paul about his report that in the
end it doesn’t say by the way we’re only going to burden one citizen. When you start looking at
different places and sites where you’re going to put a tower but I’m the guy. So that’s my. Paul
and I have discussed maybe some possible cottonwoods, you know that get planted. Grow fast.
Which grow fast? How long? Whatever? You know I’d certainly welcome you know any of
that type of recommendation from the Planning Commission that we look into that some more.
Any time you can do anything to try to shade this but, so that’s where I’m on that. Paul and I got
some other things we’re discussing. I don’t think that today’s the place to discuss that. Do you?
Oehme: No. I mean we’re talking and see what we can work out. I mean.
Aller: It sounds like discussions are continuing.
Dennis Clark: Yeah.
Aller: And as a commission we have to look at what’s presented so we understand your position.
I thank you for your presentation. I certainly understand where you’re coming from. It sounds
like you’re working with the City to resolve those issues and I hope they are resolved in the
future and I appreciate you coming tonight and voicing your opinion.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
Dennis Clark: Okay.
Aller: Anyone else? Okay with no one else coming forward I’m going to close the public
hearing. Discussion by the commissioners.
Tennyson: I don’t have any questions.
Aller: Tom, anything?
Doll: What kind of a space do you have available to do some mitigation as far as view?
Oehme: I just wanted to show you the plan site here. The corner, the southwest corner of the
school property is very tight. The school building is right in this location right here so it’s very,
we have very little wiggle room in terms of where we can actually place the tower. You know
granted if it would be you know feasible we’d like to shift it farther north as far as we can. That
would greatly improve the view from Mr. Clark’s garage there so, unfortunately we are kind of
stuck with what we have right now. You know we have talked about potential tree plantings and
some other mitigation type things but when a structure’s 160 feet up in the air it’s kind of hard to
cover that type of structure. The painting, the colors that we’re trying to pick out kind of blend
in as much as we can to the sky color so we’re trying to you know minimize the color contrast as
much as we can if we go with the steel tank so you know we’re looking at all those type of
things. Unfortunately with these type of structures, there is very limited techniques and things
we can actually do to screen something like this.
Hokkanen: Can I ask a question?
Aller: Sure.
Hokkanen: Where exactly on this layout is his property and driveway? Is it right down here?
Oehme: Yep.
Hokkanen: So how much space?
Oehme: Yeah, it’s basically from the drip line of the tower to his garage. It’s about 230 feet.
Hokkanen: Okay, that was my question. 230 feet.
Oehme: The next property over to the east is about 300, almost 400 feet.
Hokkanen: Okay.
Undestad: How close is this retaining wall to the?
Oehme: There’s no retaining wall. It’s all embankment, yeah.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
Undestad: I thought he had that.
Oehme: Yeah no, I think that was a printer error so.
Hokkanen: Oh it looked like a retaining wall.
Dennis Clark: No, that’s a printer error.
Thomas: So it’s just trees?
Oehme: Yeah, it’s all trees.
Thomas: Okay. It kind of looked like a metal. It looked like a metal wall so.
Dennis Clark: It’s all of a 60 foot incline going.
Undestad: And it’s all solid grade then going all the way up.
Oehme: It’s all grade.
Thomas: Okay.
Dennis Clark: This already has 30-40 of those, them pine ridge, those trees are probably already
100 feet up. Up on top of the ridge.
Aller: Up on the top.
Thomas: Okay.
Dennis Clark: I mean it’s fairly private in there and I welcome anyone, if they’d like to go in
and walk around that property…you’re welcome to drive in there. It’s my wife and myself.
Nobody around. The dogs are all gone… There’s one more thing, maybe it’s closed but if
there’s anything I wanted to say is that I am all about that not the steel siding. If you’re looking
for votes, the concrete is definitely more nature friendly. If I’ve got to look at something, you
know I did like that so about the only thing I wanted to say…
Aller: Commissioner Ellsworth.
Ellsworth: Mr. Chair. Bob, how long has this area been zoned office institutional? That
particular parcel that the tower’s going on.
Generous: As long as the school’s been there.
Ellsworth: And then you know before us today is really the determination if what’s presented
fits within the zoning, correct?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
Generous: Correct.
Ellsworth: So even though we have sympathy for Mr. Clark, it’s not really upon us to
necessarily act on that sympathy. It’s more to interpret what was presented before us and
whether it fits the proper zoning and meets the requirements in front of us. So it’s unfortunate
for your position. I can understand that and appreciate again you coming forward and talking
about it. That’s all.
Aller: Any further? Tom.
Doll: I guess I’d like to see it you know, something in here that does say that the City works
with Mr. Clark in trying to work on some screening issues but I feel for Mr. Clark as well.
Aller: Okay. Having, does anyone want to make a motion?
Ellsworth: Well I’ll make the motion. The Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that
City Council approve the site plan for a water tower located at Minnetonka Middle School West,
plans prepared by SEH dated February 22, 2011, subject to the conditions of the staff report and
adoption of the Findings of Fact and Recommendation.
Aller: Do I have a second?
Thomas: I second that.
Aller: Any discussion? Further discussion.
Ellsworth moved, Thomas seconded that the Chanhassen Planning Commission
recommends that the City Council approve the Site Plan for a water tower located at
Minnetonka Middle School West, plans prepared by SEH dated February 22, 2011, subject
to the following conditions and adoption of the Findings of Fact and Recommendation:
1.The pedestal shall be painted sky blue if a steel shell, or if constructed of a composite
concrete material shall be stamped with architectural patterns to mimic block or brick.
2.The light fixture shall have a 90-degree cut-off angle and be shielded from off-site view.
3.Haul routes must be established for the trucking of material off the site.
4.A building permit is required for the retaining walls since they will be at least four feet high.
5.The retaining walls must be designed by an engineer registered in the State of Minnesota.
6.The following additional information must be shown on the grading plan:
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
a)Show the top and bottom of wall elevations.
b)Provide more spot elevations along the driveway and the area to the north of the
driveway, ensuring that minimum 1% grade is achieved on paved surfaces and minimum
2% grade is achieved in the green area.
7.A plumbing permit is required for the proposed sewer relocations.
8.Contact the Utility Department at 952-227-1300 a minimum of 48 hours before tapping into
the existing watermain.
9.MnDOT permits are required for the proposed watermain and storm water pond outlet pipe.
10.Tree protection fencing shall be installed at the edge of the grading limits.
11.A building permit is required.
12.Geotechnical investigation and report required.
13.All plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of
Minnesota.
14.Portions of retaining wall(s) exceeding four feet in height must be professionally designed.
15.The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division to discuss plan
review and permit procedures.
16.If the total disturbance exceeds one (1) acre in area an NPDES General Stormwater Permit
for Construction Activities will be needed from the MPCA.
17.If an NPDES Permit is needed, a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan will need to be
prepared and submitted for review and the conditions of the permit must be met.
18.The outlet to the right-of-way for MN Trunk Highway 41 will need to be stabilized
immediately upon connection.
19.The pond must be protected from sedimentation to the greatest extent practicable during
construction and all sediment deposited during construction must be removed to return the
pond to the design conditions. A record drawing shall be prepared showing this condition to
be met.
20.The plan must address the comments from the Carver County SWCD.
21.The proposed conditions will result in a decrease in runoff rate for the 2, 10 and 100-year
events and an increase in total phosphorus and suspended solids removal.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission - June 21, 2011
22.The underdrain bedding material shall be washed river rock wrapped in a high-flow filter
fabric.
23.According to the Carver County Soil Survey and double ring infiltrometer tests performed by
the School District, this site may well be conducive to infiltration. To this end an additional
hold down should be constructed below the underdrain such that the feature is a
filtration/partial recharge feature as described in the Minnesota Stormwater Manual.
24.Eliminate CBMH 109 and bulkhead the outlet from the upstream structure to the west. Move
CBMH 107 to the east into the location of the existing manhole. Replace this structure as
needed and outlet to the pond. The end result will be a single outlet point into the first cell
near the pinch point of the 1035-foot contour.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:Ellsworth moved, Hokkanen seconded to note the verbatim
and summary minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated June 7, 2011 as
presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0.
COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS:
None.
CITY COUNCIL ACTION UPDATE.
None.
Thomas moved, Doll seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. The Planning Commission meeting was
adjourned at 7:25 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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