2 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 29, 2002
Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Tom Kelly, Jack Spizale, David Happe, Amy O'Shea,
and Glenn Stolar
MEMBERS ABSENT: Paula Atkins
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Corey Hoen, Recreation
Supervisor
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Mark Nettescheim: I'm Mark Nettescheim and I am at 9151Great Plains Boulevard, right off of
Bandimere Park. I'm going to be doing an Eagle project and I was proposing that I'd put up 3
benches around the new playground structure that they have there and for the last few days I've
been watching the parents drive up in their cars and sit there on the grass watching their kids so. I
watched them where they sat and most of them sat in the shade of the tree right there so I put a
bench over by the tree, and then I put one behind it because someone to watch the baseball games
plus watch their kids at the same time. Then the other one over by the bike path, closer to the
park. Where they park the cars because it's easier access and it's a good place to put it. This is
kind of the bench that I was proposing to do. It' s the same ones you guys have in there right now
and I just drew it up again as measurements and everything on it.
Hoffman: And what's the material?
Mark Nettescheim: The legs on it are metal and the back and seat are wood. That just has more
measurements. More in detail. In that area it shows the base which is a concrete slab that will be
the foundation of the bench. That's all.
Hoffman: Questions for Mark? You want to talk about the process a little bit. When you're
going to start and who's going to help.
Mark Nettescheim: I'm going to try to get the people to contact from Todd, the bench people and
I' 11 call them and see if they can help and what time I can get the stuff delivered and ordered.
And after that, see how it goes so.
Franks: Mark, or Todd, do the benches come constructed?
Mark Nettescheim: You have to put them together.
Franks: You have to put them together.
Mark Nettescheim: Yes.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: Alright. And are you pouring the concrete for the slab?
Mark Nettescheim: Yes, we are.
Franks: Okay. So you'll be doing all that work?
Mark Nettescheim: Yes.
Franks: Do we provide the materials for that then?
Hoffman: Eagle Scout projects in the city, traditionally we are approached by Eagle Scouts who
want to complete their project. The City pays for the materials. The Scouts coordinates the
project and performs the labor and create a relationship.
Franks: About how many hours Mark are you estimating it will take to complete your project?
Mark Nettescheim: I'm guessing it will take about 3 to 4 hours for the concrete to dry and to get
the base of the bench in. Then to construct the rest of it will be another 2 hours or so. So I'll
have some help from our church too so it won't take that long.
Happe: Does it require any type of special permits or anything to do what he needs to do? Great.
O' Shea: Mark, does the wood come finished or do you have to put a sealant on it or a varnish?
Mark Nettescheim: I think it comes sealed already so it should be.
O'Shea: It's all set?
Mark Nettescheim: Yeah.
O'Shea: Okay.
Hoffman: So these will be the benches that we currently have in the park.
Franks: Well it sure is needed there. I see all the parents standing around or sitting on the
ground so it was good to recognize the need. Todd, do we need to approve the project tonight
with a formal vote or? We can go ahead and do that tonight then?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Franks: Are there any further, thanks a lot Mark. Are there any other questions or comments
from the commission? Is there a motion then to approve this project?
Spizale: I'll make a motion to approve the project as it's been shown.
Franks: Is there a second?
Stolar: Second.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Spizale moved, Stolar seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the
Eagle Scout project proposed by Mark Nettescheim as presented. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Franks: We look forward to seeing those benches get put in. Thanks.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Happe moved, O'Shea seconded to approve the Minutes of
the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated April 23, 2002 as presented. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
INITIATE DEVELOPMENT OF A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION PACKAGE~
CHANHASSEN COMMUNITY CENTER.
Hoffman: Members of the commission. Tonight we have a charge from the City Council to
initiate the development of a request for information package for our Chanhassen Community
Center, or at least to investigate the possibility with a variety of private and public service
providers who are in the business of recreation service provision. To generally reach out to them.
Inquire what their level of interest is in coming to Chanhassen and partnering with the city to
provide some type of recreational facilities. So the history that you have in your package
includes the back side of the cover memorandum is the Request for Information charge statement.
What is our goal? The goal of the commission is, you have a duty of preparing a Request for
Information packet to deliver to private and public recreation service providers. Results desired
are simply to ascertain the level of interest that private and public recreation service providers
have in joining in a partnership with the city. Building a community center, or community
recreation facility. Scope of the responsibility. Commission shall report back to the City Council
and the commission has a good deal of leeway and authority of using and consulting with
resources but you do not have the authority to act on behalf of the City Council to enter into any
agreements or intended agreements. The timeline. Tonight we start with the initial conversation
and then I present a work outline to the City Council that you would prepare this evening. The
10~h. The 25~ the commission comes back and finishes that project. If need be you can come
back on the 11th, an independent evening and complete the project and then the council would
like to see your final report on July 8th. Again the commission has the ability to go ahead and
let's say you simply feel overwhelmed with this project and you would like to bring a consultant
in for a one month period of time to help with the formulation of this project, you certainly can do
that. Or you can bring in any other outside consultants simply for information purposes. You
will provide written reports via the Park and Recreation Commission Director to the City Council
and you are expected as members of the park commission to conduct background fact finding
consultations and come to meetings prepared to discuss your discoveries. Otherwise we simply
will not be able to meet the timeline if we do this in a more formal process. So you're going to
need to out in the street working some contacts and talking to people about this. There's a
newspaper article about the meeting that the council held to initiate this process and then the
remainder of the material in your packet is all background information from the survey to the city
held, and this is what the City Council is responding to. Is the community survey. This council
feels very strongly that they invested the time and resources in a community survey, which is a
very good tool to gauge what a community would like to see, and they're responding in the
recreation area to the fact that approximately 2 out of 3 people would like to see some type of
community center facility in this town. There's also a great interest in a pool facility in this city
of Chanhassen as well. The other data goes back to many of the referendums, just to get a feel
because where the council sits today is that you ought to do this. The city would like to move
forward. It's really going to take a referendum vote to raise taxes to raise the money to put this
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
type of a facility on the streets so that's the reason for the information on the referendums. One
that goes back 6 or 8 years through a variety of referendums that were held in the city for other
proposed community centers at the time. With that Chair, I'll turn it back over to you to facilitate
that process and if we can make it as simple or as difficult as we would like. Basically what
we're doing is attempting to reach out to Lifetime, Northwest, the Y, the schools, anybody else
that we can put on that list and send a letter. This is the City of Chanhassen. They've all shown
interest to date and now it's just formalizing the process to start that and initiate those
conversations again.
Franks: Right Todd, just a couple of questions first before we start, if that's okay. The first is the
cost of hiring a consultant to take a look at this is I'm sure, is far ranging but ballpark it for us.
Hoffman: 80 bucks an hour. 60 bucks an hour.
Franks: Okay. My read on this was, and I don't know if the other commission members had the
same kind of idea but the council is actually looking to us to do a lot of the work here and present
them with some information and some options. So if we go ahead and use a consultant, my
feeling would be to really target the use of the consultant to some real specific and technical
questions which we're not really able to address with it being a citizen commission. But what I'd
like to do is to take the time tonight, and hopefully it's not going to take too much time, and really
narrow down what our thinking is and how we'd like to go through this process. And then maybe
we'll have a better idea about when, if and how we would choose to use a consultant on some of
the more technical issues. What I'd like to do too is open it up in a sense of more of a work
session type of discussion so we can get some ideas flowing. I'd like to know from the other
members of the commission what some of their thoughts and ideas were concerning our task and
the timeline. So go ahead Glenn.
Stolar: One question, and I'm not sure of the processes here. How I work, there's a huge
difference between an RFI and an RFP. Right? The RFI, all we're asking for them is to give us a
ballpark of what they think we would do. We'd put criteria there. I would hope we'd be able to
borrow RFI's from others and basically get the information and ascertain whether this is
something we should forward to the next phase.
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: Okay. So we would have the opportunity at that phase to use a consultant for an RFP
where I really would want to make sure we have the expertise in choosing.
Hoffman: And the council made that conscience differentiation between the two.
Stolar: Which is important, so I agree with you. Rather that we should very limit our use to just
make sure, did we miss anything in this RFI that's going to be a gotcha later. That we'd say oh
yeah, this is a good idea. Go forward with this. You remembered this, this, this and this. Okay.
So if that's what you're suggesting, I agree with that approach.
Franks: That's what I'm suggesting.
Stolar: And then the other question is, do we have a bank of RFI's that we know of right now
that we could borrow to start looking at and get at least for me personally, I would want to be
more important as to what one of these would look like in this type of environment.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: Are you talking from the other communities?
Stolar: Other communities, yeah. I don't know if any of the associations carry knowledge banks
like that that you can borrow from. Chaska obviously we could talk to them.
Hoffman: Yeah. We can talk to communities. There's not a bank out there but you can find a
thousand RFP' s. RFI's are a little different animals but.
Stolar: Well even an RFP we can reduce to get our, I mean that actually allows us to look at the
broader set of requirements, although it's a lot more reading.
Hoffman: Absolutely. But I think the RFI, it' s going to say, we, the City of Chanhassen are
interested in building, providing this service to our residents. Here's what we'd like to include in
it. This is what we see as a potential location. Or the potential locations and some of those types
of things so it' s very generic in nature but it' s a good idea to check into some of those other ones
so I'll do that.
Franks: Okay. Then that hopefully leads into the next question is what really are we looking for
in a community center? What are the components that our community is really wanting to be a
part of the community center?
Happe: And part and parcel of that question Chairman Franks is I know that you, along with the
council and the previous Park and Recreation Commission visited a number of community
centers on kind of a whirlwind tour so I' m interested in what some of those shared observations
were or some of those basic elements that you guys looked at at the time that would be something
that we'd want to consider for this community center.
Franks: Well we saw the whole, really the whole range. Everything from more basic to the more
extravagant with ice sheets and outdoor water park and indoor water park and full health club
facilities to much more basic so it can all be done. It's what do we want done in our community?
Hoffman: The council did express that they though the Plymouth model should be the base,
which is the larger facility.
Franks: Did they give any indication about the ice sheet? Indoor pool? Outdoor pool? Health
club facilities?
Spizale: Indoor and outdoor.
Franks: So some of the things we may be looking for is an indoor aquatic facility. In conjunction
with an outdoor.
Spizale: I think the other ones we saw had nice gyms. Running track. I'm trying to think of
some of the stuff we saw.
Stolar: Exercise rooms or weight rooms. And if you look at the question 146 on the survey, it
lists several things there for which they voted the, 65 percent that it had a walking/running track,
gymnasiums, aerobics room. Had racquetball courts on that. I'm not so sure that that was a part
of that.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: Well right here we can already diverge in two different directions. Are we looking at a
whole new community center concept, that may be in a partnership with a private enterprise that's
going to provide the workout space or cardiovascular space like a Lifetime does, or are we really
looking at keeping our rec center that we have with gym space and very limited workout space
and moving towards just constructing an aquatics facility? I guess that's what I'd like to look at
first. How expansive do we want to be? We already have some recreational capability, workout
capability here. It's really limited.
Happe: I think too Rod when you look at the community survey I think that the aquatics was
super high. I think that ice sheet or a separate focus on ice arena was extremely low. So my
preference would be not to focus on that.
Franks: Well I'm thinking on exercise. Like workout areas. We have the small workout area at
our current community center, and gym space that's available there as well.
Stolar: The gym space is pretty crowded there, so gym space may still be a capacity issue. I'm
not sure about the workout facilities. Do we know Todd?
Hoffman: They're self loading, but we can triple that space.
Stolar: Okay. And is that true for the gym space too? I'm only there a little bit but every time
I' m there, it's packed.
Hoffman: It's full during the winter. Empty now.
Spizale: I think a consideration too is will we be sharing this with the schools, which I'm sure we
would be at some point. As far as size.
Franks: Sharing what parts of the project with the schools?
Spizale: Well I think some of the other ones we looked at were shared with high schools and
grade schools and different things and I think that's consideration too. Will we be sharing this
facility with a school?
Franks: As far as maybe for swim meets and.
Spizale: Yeah.
Franks: So really Jack you're looking at a partnership that involves the city, the school district
and maybe another entity as well?
Spizale: Yes. I think it's a thought. You know especially if we build a high school in the future.
Franks: Well now that was indicated too in that article in the newspaper anyways is that the
possibility of this being constructed in conjunction with the high school.
Hoffman: There's the possibility that they separated the two issues for clarity at this point.
Franks: Okay. Is there thinking as far as siting any future community center, that it would be
sited with the future school, if one occurs?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Could be. I think they're on parallel tracks because one or both of these may
disappear and it may fizzle out and so they wanted to keep the chances alive for as high
percentage of success as possible so start planning for a community center. Start planning for
high school. If they both evolve to the point where now they look like okay, these things can
happen. Let' s put them together, then you continue on down that path of discovery at that point.
Stolar: Would that change the availability of space or the location, I would assume, depending on
whether we combine with the school or not. Which may change how a private venture would
approach us.
Hoffman: Yes.
Stolar: Do we have a listing of possible sites?
Hoffman: Yes.
Stolar: And then we can divide them up and say you know, if it's solo it'd probably be in these
sites. If it's with a school.
Happe: Should we review that listing with potential sites, we should create a listing of likely
targets or public organizations that would be the logical candidate approach for a public/private
partnership.
Franks: And the list of preferred components to the community center.
Hoffman: And the Planning Commission will deliver to City Council the site analysis for a high
school. So there's going to be a lot of overlap between sites for high school sites and potential
sites for community center.
Franks: Alright. So we're really looking at having, and if I understand so far, an indoor and
outdoor aquatics, correct?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: As one of the listings and workout space and gym, extra gym space.
Happe: What impact though Todd would a facility like this have on the existing community
center or the investment, or the existing rec center and the investment that we've made over
there? I mean does that, do we obsolete ourselves on the dollars that we've already spent by
duplicating this on a new facility?
Hoffman: No. No. The recreation center, when this town is fully developed at 35,000, the
recreation center will be a wonderful compliment, if it' s still operating, to any type of community
center they would build, I don't care how extravagant.
Happe: Okay. And there could be an interchange between those two facilities so that you have a
joint membership per se or something.
O' Shea: So Todd, am I hearing that the meetings rooms out there are being utilized a lot.
Hoffman: A lot.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
O'Shea: And so there would be, possibly we should be considering more community, indoor
community space. Meeting rooms at a community center.
Hoffman: Well there'd probably be a shift. So right now those meeting rooms are used for
recreational programming. Tai Kawn Do, Tai Chi, Yoga, all those things. Well if those go into a
new community center, then it opens up space for more community type meetings which was one
of the primary reasons that the recreation center was developed. There just was not enough
public meeting space for local associations, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, all the different meetings
that take place in a community and the recreation center has provided that. But people get boxed
out because there's just too many things going on at the recreation center right now during the
school year. There should be no worries about the impact to what this facility would do to the
recreation center. There's plenty of choices for the recreation center and it's space and they're
not limited to just keeping it.
Franks: You know and this just kind of complicates. When I first saw this Todd I have to admit I
thought, how are we going to do this in this one meeting, really within any kind of depth. Really
too when we sit down, let's say we bring in someone from Lifetime and someone from the
YMCA for example to give us some information. The YMCA is going to have a facility with
meeting space in it. Lifetime is going to have a facility without any meeting space in it, and so
you know it's like two different types of approaches even about how they're going to, the type of
facility that they would construct.
Happe: If I'm understanding the assignment correctly, we go out and get the legwork done. Get
the homework done. Get various options that could be components of this and serve that up, so
that's not, I mean that's not a terrible thing that there's going to be some different approaches to
what this facility might look and feel like.
Hoffman: I don't think so. The commission doesn't have to come up with a solution of what this
building would be. Just go out to an RFI. Suggestions about what it should be. Anybody wants
to sit down and talk to you, they want to know what you're thinking. Indoor/outdoor pool. These
are the kind of facilities we want and they're going to go oh. Full blown community center type
facility. That's what they're looking for. Okay, now we know where we're at. Well here's how
we enter into that equation. We're a for profit for this. We're non-profit for business. We're a
school so it appears this is what we need to do and here's what you would need to do and then
when we get that set of information and then the council would receive it. So here's the Y's
proposal. Here's Lifetime's proposal. Here's the school district's proposal or at least, the school
district would probably not come forward with a proposal. That's not the type of organization
they are, but they'll come forward and they'll say you know, we' re interested in parking. We
need these facilities as well so, that would be the kind of respond I would expect from the school
district.
Franks: On my list then was an indoor and outdoor aquatic facility, exercise area, classic gym
space, and daycare facilities and that's what kind of rounded out my list of amenities that I'd want
to see in, at a minimum, in what any kind of community center that we build. Or that got
constructed in town.
Stolar: In going along with that, I don't know how specific we want to get in the RFI but I also
want them to keep in mind smaller children, for example separate gyms or separate facilities that
would allow smaller children either kids pool as an example. Or zero depth pool.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: Well I like the zero entry pool, yes.
Stolar: The zero depth pools. A smaller gym that would be only for children with lower baskets
or lower activities. Those sort of things. Trying to think of some of the health clubs I've been to
and what have they done.
Happe: Flagship does a great job.
Stolar: Yeah, that's where we belong.
Happe: With that separate gym with the little hoops for the little guys.
Stolar: Little hoops for little guys and then they also use that in the morning, people play indoor
soccer there.
Happe: It's great program space.
Stolar: I assume we, based on the conversation and the van ride we had, we probably don't want
to ask for tennis courts on this.
O' Shea: I would like. to ask for a performance arts space though.
Happe: I was wondering if you were going to, and maybe that ties in with the, maybe that's part
of a community or a meeting room. Maybe that doesn't have to be a separate facility. Maybe
there's auditorium seating in a meeting rooms.
Franks: Well when you see how nicely I think it fits in, in the Chaska Community Center. It
certainly is the type of amenity that could fit into a community center.
O'Shea: I don't think it's a priority with very many people right now. I don't know how it would
go over if you'd ask them but I think for long range planning it definitely would be something to
plan for.
Happe: It's got to be a killer in terms of cost per square footage for bang for the buck in terms of
how much use it's going to get against a lot of the other spaces.
Franks: Yeah, the for profit companies I figure would have a hard time justifying the space.
Hoffman: That's your's on the end of the building.
O'Shea: Well if there was, I'm talking about a high school some day of course, that certainly
would be planned into that. Or it could be.
Hoffman: It'd be wonderful there. People get a little bit, schools and profits can go together.
Franks: All the time.
Hoffman: Yeah so, in fact we bring a for profit in here and they say, you tell them, oh by the way
there's $14 million coming over from the school district to put into this facility and they're not
going to turn their back on that. So there' s a lot of exciting possibilities that could happen.
Plymouth is a huge, huge concept. Big time facility. Huge, or multi-faceted agreements between
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002 ·
the school district and the city and the city and Lifetime and just, but that's what makes it happen.
Today's environment, the days are gone of the city building a community center on it's own.
Those days are simply gone so, partnerships and they've evolved over time. At least all the
partners I think are becoming more astute as they go into these...
Stolar: ...this RFI want to have them bring in some of their history. Some of their background. I
don't know that we'd want to venture with someone who's never done it before. So part of the
RFI is their experience. Yeah, where have they done it.
Happe: Thanks Mark.
Hoffman: Good night.
O'Shea: And to some of the facilities, I think we would look also at family changing rooms in
there. Again I don't know how specific we want to get right now, but the indoor aquatic facility,
I think through the survey...and something that's multi-faceted with zero depth to really fun
slides and a place where you can teach swimming lessons and yet have a swim team practice so
it's got to have a lot of different uses and layout, and I think it should be quite extensive when we
look at it. Because it seems like a real high need out here and something that also can be used for
swimming lessons. That kind of thing.
Franks: I think there's a necessity for any facility out here to be really sensitive to families and
children in the construction of the facilities like you say. That the family changing, family locker
rooms. The gyms and pools that are geared towards not only adults but to the children and
families as well.
O'Shea: I do. The thing also with the aging population, and it works well with younger kids too
is, another area that can have a warmer temp as well for the pool water and that way you're
serving seniors as well as the young kids and they can learn a lot faster in the swimming lessons
and that type of thing. So I think that would be in keeping to do too as a warmer temp pool
versus something that doesn't have to.
Stolar: You mean two different types of approaches because the clubs need the colder temp
pools, so if you ever want to get club activity in there, they want cold water. And I agree with
you, you need both.
O'Shea: Right.
Stolar: Because for seniors, if you go to the Courage Center they have senior activities there. Of
course that water's like 90 degrees. Doing their water exercise, yeah.
Hoffman: Bath water.
O'Shea: And even like at Foss Swim School, they keep their's really pretty nice and warm. But
again I do think we should look at the older generation too, which we're approaching. But so I
think that's a key when we look at the aquatic facility as well. And a layout that makes sense for
life guard placement too, but with that again we're getting real nit picky. And I don't know if, I
looked at it as, how can we get the drain off the city. I see this as, that I don't see the rec center
as being in the negative. In the red. I see that being able to produce money or break even with
this facility. I also see possibilities for skate park expansion. So I think when you look at the
facility, what's the whole thing that the city is asking for. You know the kids want more skate
10
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
park. And kind of tie it all in, just like a performing arts center, and then if we do team up with
the school, I mean it would fit so nicely. If we look at it globally, what are the citizens asking and
then somehow this could all work into a whole facility of ways of getting the product in. But I do
see, like for example the skate park. I see that growing because it's here to say and a BMX
course. That, instead of having the city have the burden of those telephone calls of complaints
about language use and not being supervised, possibly this facility would take on that burden and
work in conjunction with the city as well as that new facility and have it staffed and then they
handle the staffing. Somewhat like they do like Lake Ann where they've got life guards. It's a
lot cheaper from somebody who' s in that business of hiring part time staff anyway to do it, and
they're already doing staff training and...package so it's not that big a burden for them.
Hoffman: That's a model used in many communities already. It's not necessarily right on site,
but other service providers manage the skate parks.
O'Shea: So again in the facility, I do see part of like for example skate park. Not saying maybe
it wouldn't be located there but somewhere where it could be developed into more ramps. More
programs offered.
Hoffman: Something we learned at Plymouth, when we talk about ice. In ice conversations, the
last time it was brought up in Chanhassen was when the second sheet was added onto Chaska
Community Center so at that time the City, a piece of land down, just behind the round building
at Prince's, that we were offering up for free to the skate association, the hockey association, and
they were going to build that second sheet of ice here in Chanhassen on that property. Well
Chaska didn't want to see that happen so they came in at the last moment and said, well let's put
the second sheet onto the arena and here's the deal that we'll give you to make that happen. So
now we have 2 sheets in Chaska. Eden Prairie has 2 sheets just down Highway 5 and they're
looking to build a third. That's the hockey association is looking to build a third. They're
financing. And then Minnetonka has their sheets and Victoria is looking to build a sheet there so
it might be that the history of Chanhassen will never have an ice arena in town. And that's a
service delivery decision. You know people that use it have to drive to one of these other
facilities, but the fact is, in Ramsey County last winter they sold ice at 50 percent because the use
of those facilities was, too many built and the use going down so they're selling ice time at 50
percent, and now no longer can you cover your operating costs and you're starting to take a hurt
financially. In Plymouth, the field house generates as much revenue as the ice arena at about 25
percent of the cost. So they're making money, a lot of money on their field house where they're
just paying their way on their ice arena, which was an amazing statistic and so their field house is
a very, they take the cover off in the summer. They put the cover on in the winter and so now
you have field space inside during the winter for your soccer programs, golf programs, walking,
running, track programs, Lacrosse programs, all outside programs. It's a very successful field
house in Plymouth.
Happe: I think there's a possibility that we haven't talked about yet too Chairman because I think
there's, the potential may be for an interesting hybrid because you have local companies like Foss
who are great aquatic programmers, but may not be the experts in the golf dome. Whereas you
have a Rain, Snow & Shine that may be a potential partner and take a look at some type of indoor
range. I just noticed that 50 percent of the surveyors respondents either strongly supported or
somewhat supported the development of a municipal golf course. You could bring in a third
partner in, I mean maybe there's an opportunity for like a Northwest to specialize or focus on the
things that they do well, and to have really a conglomerate of multiple service providers. I don't
know. Maybe. That's a little different twist on what we've been talking about.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: I kind of want to bring this all in a little bit, ifI can and I'm a linear thinker so.
Hoffman: Fun to dream.
Franks: Oh man. It's a lot of fun to dream, but you know we have to move and we can dream for
a long time and come up with really great ideas but what I don't want to see happen is a lot of
people who are interested to put in a facility here, come in and tell us what they're going to do
without us first letting them know what it is we're looking for. At least with some general
concept, and so when they come in they're already having some understanding as to what it is
that we want and maybe some of the people that see that aren't even going to bother to come, so
we won't have to waste our time with that. I agree, you know the partnership possibilities are
just, whoever wants to get involved, I mean we can go on and on and on. Foss or Presbyterian
Homes working with seniors when they go in on Villages on the Ponds. And I mean it just could
go on and on so.
Hoffman: That should probably be part of our work outline is to list those possible partners.
Stolar: And we could ask them where have you done this before. The issue may not be, we don't
know what they are, but have you done it and show us examples of where you're done it.
Franks: With a partnership.
Stolar: With a partnership so people, and then like you said, list some of the areas. Foss Swim,
as an example. Foss Swimming or any golf facilities. If we count the performing art facility and
just ask them to say, where have you done this because yeah you're right. They're going to bring
ideas to us, and let them bring them but let's give them examples or let's introduce to them the
idea that we want to hear that from them.
Franks: Sure. I mean one of them that we even, partnerships all over the place but the Ridgeview
Medical Center right out at Waconia. They're right in the facility in Waconia providing services
right there so.
Happe: So really back to the first thing you said. A list of key components of potential partners
and a list of, and eventually a list of targeted locations for different configurations.
Franks: And then maybe some discussion about who we want to send that request to. Can we do
that? Or is that too lineal for everybody?
Happe: Perfect.
Franks: Okay. I'm willing to be flexible. Sort off Alright, let's bring it back to the amenities.
Todd, what do we have so far?
Hoffman: So far indoor and outdoor pool. Gymnasiums. Running Track. Exercise rooms.
Daycare facilities. Performance Arts.
Franks: Okay, go ahead.
Hoffman: Facility specific to children's programming. Sized appropriately. That's what I wrote
down.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: Yeah there was, if you can add it in as a concept that life span development be built into
the concept, i.e. it'd be good for seniors. Good for adults. Good for families. Good for children
and so.
O'Shea: Do we have cardiovascular workout room?
Hoffman: Exercise. Both cardiovascular and strength.
O'Shea: And when you say daycare, are you thinking daycare or babysitting? Is daycare?
Franks: I'm open.
O'Shea: Okay. So it could be either or?
Franks: I think so. I mean let's see what they come back with.
Stolar: Do we want any type of restaurant or any of those types of things in there? Food service.
Hoffman: Climbing wall? Restaurant.
Happe: What about batting cages usually go right in with gymnasium? Drop down batting cages.
Driving range. Anybody?
Hoffman: Golf facilities?
Franks: It's go big. I think that we can go with that as well.
Hoffman: Well you can eliminate gymnasium. You could add a field house and then you add in
your concept.
Franks: I think that's a good idea.
Hoffman: We tried to build a field house with the rec center, but it got too overwhelming for
elementary school campus.
O'Shea: So then a field house basically could contain running and walking track.
Franks: Golf facilities. Anything else?
Spizale: I think that's a good start.
Franks: Alright. That's a pretty good list. Do you believe that the meeting space, if a facility
were constructed, is it your idea that the meeting space currently available at the rec center would
be adequate to city needs?
Hoffman: I think so because it's going to be embellished and then used primarily for meetings.
Franks: For meeting space, and at that time will then be adequate for our meeting space needs.
Happe: We added a meeting space into the library too so there's additional space there for
meetings.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Hoffman: One component you are missing is the alcohol for wedding reception, graduation,
banquet facilities. And Chanhassen woefully deficient in that.
O'Shea: Community room type of thing.
Hoffman: Yeah. Maplewood has it as one fourth of their program.
Franks: And it's a big money maker.
Hoffman: Yeah. Plymouth has it as a Creek Center, that's all it is.
Happe: Plymouth is our reference standard from the City Council?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: But the Creek Center, it's separate.
Happe: Okay.
Hoffman: Because they missed that component in the first go around.
Franks: Well there is nothing here really as far as banquet rental. I mean if we could get in on
that market, I think that'd be providing not only a really good service but a potential source of
revenue generation too so.
Happe: My only hesitation with that is, I don't, I haven't seen a public outcry for that type of
service or even surfaced as a topic...
Franks: You haven't been trying to plan a wedding lately.
O'Shea: No weddings or graduations in your family.
Stolar: But I also think the question is, is that a community center or is that a private enterprise
and I think we could list that as one of the potential partnerships that they might invoke. You
know I wouldn't want to go to Lifetime for a wedding. But do they have a facility where they
partnered with someone that has a banquet facility? I think that's a fair thing to add for any
partnerships that they might have had.
Hoffman: Are you familiar with Maplewood Community Center? It's a wheel. It has a center
core. It has a banquet facility in this corridor. Performing arts theater in this corridor.
Gymnasium is in this corridor and a pool facility in this corridor. You couldn't find a more...
and it's booked 2 years in advance.
Franks: We might as well put it on the list.
Hoffman: Okay. Next list.
Franks: Next list. Potential partners.
Happe: Likely targets.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
O'Shea: Lifetime. YMCA.
Spizale: YMCA.
Happe: Northwest/Flagship.
Franks: Okay, then we also have other partnership possibilities like the school districts.
Hoffman: 276 and 112.
Franks: Correct. At one time the Timberwolves were very interested in having a practice facility
out here.
Happe: Are they still tied into Northwest or is that a separate entity?
Franks: With the new owners now, I don't know.
Stolar: Would we partner with Bally's or something?
Hoffman: Sure. Who's the service provider in town right now? Chan Fitness.
Franks: Chan Fitness.
Hoffman: Foss Swim School. There's a couple of loose organizations. There's kind of the Chan
West Partnership that has been meeting with staff about we would like to build a facility out here
so we'll put them on there as a kind of an independent.
Franks: Alright.
Stolar: When you send out an RFI, do you have to do a public notice also, right? Or no?
Hoffman: Public notice that we.
Stolar: So anybody that we don't have on the list is interested in participating.
Hoffman: I don't know if we're required. We could certainly do that. Where would we put it?
I'm trying to think that people would recognize it.
Stolar: I'm trying to think for example is there some out of town organization that wants to get in
here that'd be willing to make an investment to start making a presence in a fast growing area. I
don't know if there's a list of some of the more, that are available elsewhere.
Franks: Or placing an ad in a trade publication.
Stolar: Yeah, something like that.
Franks: I say that slightly facetiously but I mean, I don't know how else we would find these
people.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Stolar: Well actually I can find, a friend of mine used to be a consultant for health clubs.
Internationally actually, so I'll find out from her. If there's a possibility.
Hoffman: Sure. Broader reach...
Happe: There's an organization called, I'm embarrassed I'd actually know this but there's an
organization called Curves for Women I think that is one of the fastest emerging health clubs.
They're more of a mall based operator but they should at least be included on our Request for
Information because they might have a concept that we may be interested in that would be a little
more global than Curves for Women but.
Hoffman: Yeah, largest growing franchise in America.
Franks: And they're in town.
Hoffman: They're everywhere.
O'Shea: Hugely successful here.
Happe: They won't let me in but I've heard it's.
Franks: Oh no, they do have to let you in.
Happe: Oh do they?
Franks: Don't they? I think they do.
Happe: I think they do. Just being facetious.
Franks: Well anybody else?
Hoffman: Any Twin Cities people we forgot? Northwest. The soccer clubs probably.
Franks: And that's for the field house, correct?
Happe: What about Rain, Snow and Shine?
Hoffman: Sure.
Happe: For a component. Any other local or area golf organizations.
Hoffman: Soccer clubs are widely interested in field house components. Great. Alright, what's
the next list.
Happe: Next list was, and I don't know how we do this one but potential locations based on
format or concept.
Hoffman: We'll bring back you a map. We have a map on that. The start of the outline is that
we want to seek out RFI examples, and base RFI on one of those that we think is good with these
potential facilities and these potential panners. I send that up to the City Council and they'll say
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
you're doing good work and we'll finalize it at our next meeting and...back in the hands of the
council and we' 11 check on the wider, broader sense of who potential partners are nationwide.
Franks: Well Lifetime is definitely expanding nationwide and there might be other companies
that are interested in coming to the market as well so.
Hoffman: The local club is a national franchise. Chan Fitness.
Stolar: They're associated with Gold's Gym or one of those.
O'Shea: How about clarifying question. Is July 8th when we make a recommendation to the one
company that we want to work with?
Hoffman: No. You're making the recommendation. This is the RFI process that the council
should use to solicit input.
Stolar: ...maybe to get 2 or 3 companies to submit an RFP for very specific outline.
Hoffman: If they choose.
Franks: So you're considering our next, we'll go over this again at which meeting?
Hoffman; June 25th, unless you're uncomfortable with that, then we'd schedule a June 11th
meeting.
Franks: Alright now, will we be able to, I mean based on what we've given you now and what
you're going to be doing with it in the next month, will we be able to, do you think, finish if we
wait until June 25th?
Hoffman: Hope so.
Franks: Because we have to have it ready to go by July 8th.
Stolar: Would we be able to add some of the materials in the June 11th timeframe after the
presentation to the City Council that we can start doing some work so we'll be better, like you
said, be better prepared for June 25th. If we have it ahead of time, before June 11th. Then if we
decide we have to have a meeting, we can at least make a call then.
Hoffman: If I do my job correctly on the 25t~, you should be approving a concept and refining it.
Franks: Would it be helpful Todd for you, for us to have a work session prior to the meeting to
just go over it?
Hoffman: Timing might not be there because right about June 11th is the time that you would
think you'd just be getting into full gear.
Franks: No, I mean prior to the 25th meeting. Starting with say at 6:30.
Hoffman: Oh sure.
Franks: Have a work session meeting before our regularly scheduled commission meeting.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002 ·
Hoffman; May not be necessary. Again if I've got it prepared for you, unless you want to do a
complete overhaul which you could do after the meeting if you get into the discussion that
evening and you're not satisfied with how it's looking. Take the time necessary.
Franks: Well I'm comfortable then in just really taking a look at it on the 25th if the material
comes out with as much notice as you're able to give us. Even if that, if you can, if it comes out 2
weeks before the packet, if you can. If not, we'll trust that you'll get it to us when, as soon as you
can.
Hoffman: You bet.
Franks: Is that, everybody agreeable with that? Okay.
Hoffman: This RFI is going to include a variety of information on the city. Population.
Demographics. Some of those. Some of that information because when these large companies
take a look at this stuff they say well, Chanhassen. Who is that? Where is that? What's the
current population? What's the expected population? What's the median income and where are
they located in reference to all these other, and they're going to say who's out in their area so
we'll give them that information and then I think the rest of it is fairly straight forward. It's not
going to be a huge packet.
Happe: Just reading the charge statement, the last full section of the charge statement where it
says members of the Park and Rec Commission are expected to conduct background fact finding
consultations, come to the meeting prepared to discuss their discoveries. An extra meeting on
June 11th may be required to complete this charge. Are we, does this, are we taking this far
enough with what we've discussed already? Because we're not doing a whole lot of reaching out
beyond the packet parameter from what I've heard you say thus far.
Hoffman: Glenn mentioned he's going to contact somebody. If you want us to send an email or
make a phone call. Anybody that has any contacts with any of these organizations that they can
talk to folks and bring that to the next meeting, or just give me a call.
Franks: Well would there be specific type of information that you'd be looking, that would help
you in your process in preparing for the 25th?
Hoffman: I don't think so. An RFI would, strategically what we want to know, what's out there.
Well who's saying what? And that doesn't have much to do with an RFI. What it has to do is
how are we strategically located to cut a deal with somebody, number one. So you know, an
RFI'S an RFI. Basic information. We're not going to change that dramatically, but this stuff like
well, if somebody knows of some corporation, company, individual out there that can say hey,
this is you haven't thought of this. We want to know that. You haven't thought of mailing it to
this person or this corporation. They're interested in hitting a new marketplace.
Franks: But as far as doing fact finding with actual potential providers, we're not really at that
point yet until this whole RFI process is further down the road.
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: Outside of Plymouth and Chaska, what other places would you suggest we might just go
visit on our own?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: Maple Grove.
Hoffman: Yep, Maple Grove with Northwest. In the profession the word is that Maple Grove
got about the sweetest deal of all through Northwest. And then Lifetime is Champlin, Savage.
Savage is under construction. If you saw the little news clipping about Savage. What they've got
to do is they, oh kind of a say debate about the fees. How much are we going to charge and
boom, the fees are what seem relatively too high for the citizens and so the council's concerned
about that. These deals weren't made before you know you say here's the cash. Let's talk about
what the fees are going to be so those are some management issues that were made along the line.
Stolar: Is that something we want to ask in the RFI what they would expect the fees to be?
Hoffman: I don't think an RFI would get down to that scope. I don't think.
Stolar: Or their experience in how much they've charged for these in there. If they put them in
the fees in general. It's like if we ask for what they've already done, they can just tell us the facts
there.
Hoffman: Yeah, an aquatic center, you can ask for that. They might be reluctant to give it.
Franks: You know one of the things along with that, if we could is, do they have provisions or
experience in dealing with economically disadvantaged people in the community? I know like in
Plymouth that was one of the things that was done through Lifetime was making the place
available to everybody.
Hoffman: Maplewood is a great facility. Shoreview is a great facility. Over the, those are the
great ones. Eagan is going to build one. Where else are they out there? Champlin's going to
build one.
Franks: If you want to see a nice water park, St. Louis Park. Outdoor water park.
Hoffman: They took 160 calls today on why they weren't open.
Stolar: Because it's warm. Who wants to go.
Stolar: I have one other challenging question for this RFI for the audiences if we do it. Do we
send an RFI to some of these cities asking them what they would consider to be a partnership
with us to allow us to use it, or are they just overbooked and it wouldn't be worthwhile to do that?
Hoffman: Well, we've had the conversation with Chaska. They're the likely partner in that type
of, and I don't think this is the platform for that. Unless we want to send Chaska an RFI and say,
how do you want to partner with the City of Chanhassen?
Franks: Wow.
Stolar: Why wouldn't we want to partner?
Hoffman: One of the identity things, and that's one of the reasons that people want a Chanhassen
Community Center is for the identity of having something that is our own. Eden Prairie's looking
at a water park and so, an outdoor water park. If we build one in Chanhassen and Eden Prairie,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
not a very good marketing so it' s kind of like, you build it for what do you want to provide for
your own residents and I see the Chaska deal as a last option. So if the city runs out of land,
never builds a community center and we still, all of our residents are...
Stolar: ...one of the things we were thinking about with the outdoor pool or water park was a
question of whether we put out a bid for them to expand their facilities and allow our people to be
regular members as a cheaper alternative to building a facility ourselves. To leverage off what
they already have. It was really exploratory. It wasn't even an agenda item. It was an open
working session but we were talking to Edina and we were talking to St. Louis Park, and the
question was, Chan doesn't have one. Maybe partner with Chan, because the idea of having
some community identity, I still challenge the question that people support this. 90 percent
support it but if you look at the question, what would you want to spend your money on, 90
percent say a facility. 17 percent said a pool so I think that clearly is our leader. It's only
whether they said would you support a rec center that you get 63 percent. I look at the broader
question of what do you want? Only 59 percent said nothing.
Hoffman: What page is that on?
Stolar: Now not saying this is the greatest survey in the world or it's the be all end all, plus
we're starting to go back to the citizens regardless. It's on page 18, question 136. What facility's
not currently here that you would like to see here? 90 percent said they want to see a community
center.
Hoffman: 60 percent said none.
Happe: Well unfortunately our task hasn't been a discerned that.
Stolar: No, but what I'm saying is that does say that there is some hesitation and do we need to
explore options. I don't mind tiering this and saying let's look at building our own facility first.
Find out if that's a go. If not, let's look at other things because again we're going back to the
citizens regardless. We aren't choosing to do something right now. We're just going to the next
step, but it is just something to think about on our back burner is a partnership. When we're
talking about partnerships, a partnership with another city to create the capacity to allow our
people to enjoy these types of facilities.
Hoffman: You bet .... go through this process...you say alright well, we're going to build this in
Eden Prairie. Or we're going to add onto the Chaska Center or we're going to do something else.
Franks: I really don't see this as an either or type of approach, and that's really, that's the
question that I've had in my mind too really. The idea is to provide the amenity to the residents,
and how is it that we're going to provide it. And right now I see that we're exploring actually the
construction of some facility probably with some panner in some form here within our city. If it
looks like that's not going to work, we're going to have to look for another means to provide that
amenity. Certainly the other option that really pops up.
Stolar: And I agree it's not and or because it could be an and that we build it here and invite Eden
Prairie to invest in it with us and expand our facility so it can accommodate them, as an example.
So as long as we understand that that might be an option to help leverage some of the base costs.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Happe: I also think Glenn, I don't know, I understand what you're saying. I'm just, we could
pick this survey apart if it was to a level that goes beyond what we need to do with it but on page
19 you have 62 percent of the residents, I'm sorry.
Stolar: It's 65 percent support a community center.
Happe: 65 percent supporting a community center. It's not saying.
Stolar: Well again, without getting too far into it, I know survey design. This is not a very well
designed survey because it doesn't correlate the questions to provide you with some fundamental
understanding or the behaviorals or the attitudes that these people have. You're asking them a
very straight question, and you're not correlating them to say does this relate to each other, or are
these conflicting questions which right now I look at and I say they're conflicting questions. But
I understand, I'm taking us off track and I apologize.
Franks: Well our job is really going to be, is really requesting the information and like you say
Glenn, we're going to bring it back to the council and to the residents and at that point I think we
can get beyond what's being asked in this survey and with some more solid information really
ascertain where the community wants us to go, where the council wants to go and where people
really want to put their dollars. But we need to keep all those options open but, and move
forward with the process that we've been charged to from the City Council.
Hoffman: And I'm ready to go.
Franks: And you're ready to go?
Hoffman: All the direction I need.
Franks: We'll look forward to getting that information as soon as possible and really dealing with
it in depth on the 25t~. Are there any other items you think Todd that are coming up on that
agenda? I'm wondering if we can't just be careful to leave ample time for us to be able to discuss
this issue without lots of other items.
Hoffman: If this seems to be a problem, I'll schedule accordingly.
Franks: Alright. Now the other heavy hitter is the 2003 Park and Trail acquisition and the CIP.
INITIATE 2003 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PRO,IECT~ CIP.
Hoffman: Chair Franks, members of the commission. Traditionally what has been most effective
with this is to go through the CIP page by page and start to take a look at park by park for the 5
years and tonight we're not going to finalize it but just to start to get some general position
statements from commissioners because it's a totally new group of commissioners and we'll have
totally different viewpoints on a 5 year CIP than the people who generated that document. So
you have a copy of that. I'm just going to allow.
Happe: Did you bring an extra copy Todd? I have mine out in the car...go get it real quick.
Hoffman: Allow Chair Franks to run through that and start...
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Franks: So what we're looking to do is just really go park by park and see what it is that we'd
like to do. You'll take that.
Hoffman: Did anyone else need a copy? ...CIP process, it's just as important you consider what
you would want to eliminate, or take away or what you would want to add in based on perceived
importance and priorities. We'll continue to work on this in June, and July, and then after your
July meeting send a recommendation to the City Council on both a 2003 CIP and an updated 5
year CIP. And most likely at some point in July or August we will sit down with the council face
to face and talk about that document. It's one of the meetings that council would like to go ahead
and conduct with the commission. Park master plan, our general guideline and that's included
under the cover memo on item number 3. These master plans guide the .conversation. In the
master plan, these are the amenities that are completed to date. These are amenities that are left.
Half the people have been coming to the commission, have your neighbors been talking to you?
Have you heard word on the streets that our community is in need of this kind of facility at this
park location? That's how the conversation starts in many cases. And then there's some facilities
listed on each master plan that will probably never be built, and in fact be removed from the
master plan as these are refined over time. Or updated. Bandimere for example includes a tennis
court and a basketball court. They've been in a very poor location. Not adjacent to parking and
to expect people to park in those parking lots and make their way back to that tennis court,
basketball court is just not a very real expectation. People like to park and get to the facility and
have a very convenient location. So that was not a priority. There were however at the public
hearings for the Bandimere Community Park master plan, some neighbors that were highly in
favor of that facility, a tennis court in the park. Generally I think you can say that the
community's satisfied with the mix of facilities they see. They always see something better in
another community. These great big, extravagant playgrounds that you see at some of the
regional or larger city parks, we don't have one of those and so many of our residents with
younger children, or many of our parents who participate in child care leave the community to go
somewhere else to find that type of facility. Where would you put that? Lake Susan. Lake Ann.
One of the parks, community parks when you go ahead and redevelop a playground site. So
feature or signature type of facility that really give you a name in a community. Recently we've
been incorporating these neighborhood trail connectors through neighborhood parks. People love
them. One up at North Lotus. One you've probably been on when you walk through the park,
and so it allows a broader use of an already existing facility and brings more appreciation from
the local community. If you want to flip through until you find a cover page that says park and
trail improvements.
Happe: Is that page 617
Hoffman: 13, 14, yep, and then 61. We talked about this a little bit at the work session.
Franks: Now we're first going, I'm on page 61. Is that where everybody else is at? Alright.
Starting with 2002. Todd, are any of those projects completed yet?
Hoffman: Skate park project, it was not...but those improvements are done. Trash receptacles are
done. Some of it, a portion of the permanent park benches and tables budget has been spent, and
that's it. The other ones that are programmed, the trail from Bandimere Park to Chan Hills is
programmed. The trail from Highway 101 north is programmed. Marsh Trail Glen trail
connector is currently in wetland permitting and can hopefully be completed by fall. Tree
plantings we always complete in the fall because then we don't have to water them all summer
long. And a trail connector, Highway 5 at Riley Creek. A trail connector Highway 5 at Bluff
Creek are both, they're included in one project with the $250,000 on top and the budget on that
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
has come down so you won't see that level of expenditure. And then City Center Commons will
most likely occur in 2003 so that will actually move out of 2002.
Kelly: Did the extra money they called for last night, is that part of this or that's extra?
Hoffman: It's above and beyond this. It's unknown where that allocation will come from at this
time.
Kelly: Okay, is that something we should be aware of for this?
Hoffman; I'm hopeful that it will come from a general funding source, park dedication. I think a
$200,000 allocation is a significant share for park dedication in that project.
Franks: Okay. So most of the stuff in 2002 is either done or in the works. Okay, so we're really
moving on then to 2003. The improvements that we're looking at in 2003 at Bandimere
Community Park are what Todd? That $25,000.
Hoffman: What's the page and we'll go through them one by one. Silo restoration.
Franks: That's what it is.
Hoffman: So remember on this timeline you can X out 202 and you can add in 207. And we
need to program from 203 to 207. 5 year CIP. So at Bandimere, 203 has a silo restoration which
is the existing park silo .... just like it was off the farm. It's thought that it should be kept as a
landmark of rural Chanhassen and it needs updating and maintenance. And then the other project
there is $40,000 for Phase II play equipment at Bandimere in 2004. And then if you cross
reference this with the plans that, go ahead and open up the master plan for Bandimere Park, you
see that the other things that are not included are the restroom with a shelter with arbor. A
concession space. Hard court play areas. Tennis court, basketball court, picnic shelter, rest stops.
All those items which I think you see in a mature park system but probably at this time in our
development stage don't have the financial resources to tackle in the budget so they don't still get
on the radar. That's what the project CIP's for is to start putting things out there. Priorities onto
the radar screen in those later years.
Happe: How can we discern what Phase II play equipment, what components that is on this
master plan?
Hoffman: You don't. It's just.
Happe: Okay, it's just a generic amount of money that's allocated.
Hoffman: It's an addition to the playground. Again general thought is that the Bandimere
playground has been highly successful. Let's continue adding to it. We only accommodate one
age group now. Let's add on for an additional, probably younger age and compliment what is
there.
Happe: As an additional rookie question, what is the amount $40,000 instead of 50 or 30? Is 40
an arbitrary dollar amount that was assigned to this in the budget?
Hoffman: Yes. Based on purchasing playground, $40,000 is about base level to build a
reasonable phase of equipment. If you want to get more elaborate then you go up from there.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Happe: And is a silo restoration something that would need to be completed in 2003 or would be
nice to be completed in 2003?
Hoffman: We have no safety concerns with it. It doesn't need to be completed.
Franks: What exactly are we looking at to do for the restoration?
Hoffman: Going in and closing up all the entrances on the silo and painting it, probably with a
Chanhassen logo and something that says Bandimere Park. Bandimere Community Park.
Franks: But there's no safety concerns regarding the silo? Okay. Any other comments about
Bandimere Park? Anything?
Spizale: $25,000 sounds like a lot of money to restore some silos.
Happe: One silo.
Franks: One silo.
Spizale: Park money. It just seems like better spent on playground equipment.
Hoffman: You could probably spend more on the silo, frankly. Your best example of this is the
one on 41 in Chaska that says Jonathan.
Spizale: It sounds like a high expenditure to me for a silo.
Happe: ...question. If you flip flop the order of the 2003-2004 so you get the bang for the buck
out of the continued growth of the park itself, which you said the spending, the per capita
spending has been strong, maybe we just flip flop that order. If the silo doesn't need to be done
in 2003, maybe we put the emphasis on improving the park in 2003. We can leave the silo out
there as a project we'd like to get to but it doesn't necessarily need to be done in this coming
fiscal year.
Franks: That's good. When we look at the bigger picture though we're looking at in 2003 in City
Center Park, about $275,000 to go ahead with the construction of the warming house park shelter.
So you know if we take what is it, 25 but then 40, then we really have to take a look at what
we're going to do with that as well so. I can see the wisdom in all that. If that's the kind of route
we want to go. 2003 is a big year, along with 2002 if the 101 trail goes in because what we're
looking at with the road and trail construction at Lake Ann.
Stolar: That's something that we were going to talk about.
Franks: Right. So considering how that goes really.
Happe: Does it make more sense, Rod you've been through this process before. Does it make
sense to look, to process through all of this and then come back with conclusions after we've seen
all the rest of the expenditures? What's the most methodical way?
Franks: I think so.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Hoffman: We're not going to make any crucial decisions tonight. It's too much of a learning
curve so Rod, if I can just cruise through these. If you'd like me to do that and just so we can
have a conversation.
Franks: You know let's go through each of the items for the parks and then you'll have an idea
about what everything is, and then we can flip back through the whole list. We'll know what
you're all talking about. If there's anything else that you see when you look at the master plans
for the park that you're wondering why it's not in, then we'll put those in and talk about those.
Todd, can we approach it that way?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Franks: Alright, let's do that. And then so let's move on then to the City Center Park.
Hoffman: City Center Park has $275,000 in 2003 for a park shelter building, which would be an
equivalent of a shelter building that you see at the recreation center. Brick and mortar structure.
Warming house. Concessions. Outdoor area for picnicking. And the master plan for City Center
Park is 2 pages down. You can see the location for that. In flipping through you'll see City
Center Park master plan... Located just directly behind City Hall, a warming house, shelter
building. In the northwest comer of the hockey rinks. And again this serves as a focal point for
the entire park so parents are leaving and dropping off children. Sports organizations are
conducting tournaments. This is the headquarters and it's a summer where playground programs
have their headquarters during the summer. In 2004 City Center identifies $100,000 for a senior
garden amenity which is in the far northwest comer of the park and that would be in collaboration
with the senior center and the senior housing. It would be more of a sculptured garden type
setting. That was a plan of the City Council when they redeveloped City Center. Was not just to
make it for ballfield kids. Everybody's paying for this park. Let's get everybody involved in it,
and so a senior garden or what you call a community garden with floral displays and arbors and
those type of things. So that's it for City Center.
Stolar: Where is that garden again?
Hoffman: It's not shown here.
Stolar: Where it says open green space? In that area.
Hoffman: Yep, open green space and picnic shelter. Up in that comer.
Stolar: For that type of thing are we going to have to, does it include seating at all? Okay.
O'Shea: Did you get feedback from the seniors on that?
Hoffman: Yep.
O'Shea: And that's what they.
Hoffman: We've got a great plan upstairs.
Stolar: How does that coincide with the City Center Commons though, over here that's also
going to have a similar feel?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Probably puts it farther down the line. Let's see how this one does. Why would you
start another project behind City Hall? So I think it finishes it off. Curry Farms Park has $40,000
in 2004, and that's one of those wood playground structures that's beginning to show it's age.
You see a lot of...of these structures. They get out of kilter and we do quite a bit of maintenance.
You get splintering and parents hate it when their kids get splinters. They start screaming and...
so that's 2004. Kerber Pond Park has $10,000 for signage, for interpretative signage. Kerber
Pond is just right down here by Kerber Boulevard. It's a nature...let's provide some
interpretation there on what people are seeing as they take that walk around the pond. Plants.
Geography. Geology. Wildlife. Those type of things. Improvements at Meadow Green.
$50,000 in playground equipment. It's probably the highest priority that we have in the city.
Meadow Green is a neighborhood park utilized as a community park due to the ballfields that are
there. We get a lot of use Monday through Friday during the summer and they have the worst
playground in the city sitting at that site. But what we are saying is we want, just because it's not
the best playground in the city we're not just going to throw it away. We're going to maximize
it's utility. Do minimum improvements on it and then at it's life's end we'll take it out and
replace it. It's getting near to that point.
Stolar: You said this is the oldest one?
Hoffman: Oldest one. And there's 10 of those and generally we'll be bringing them,
recommending that 2 of those are replaced annually in your program. Round house renovation.
Roundhouse Park, there's $30,000 in there for 2004. Building a neighborhood playground and
Phase II of the renovation so you were out there this evening and witnessed first hand Phase I.
This says that there's some commitment in the near future to add that second phase of playground
equipment at that location.
Happe: So that's not specific to the round house that's...
Hoffman: Yep. Money for the round house has been...does not show up any longer in the CIP
but it's there for the council to use... Remember that only the parks that have something listed in
the projects CIP are in here so when we get to go back through this at future meetings or a work
session, we're going to look at every park and if you want to add something, we can add it the
CIP list. There's a trail listed which was taken off. Whitetail Ridge Court to Lake Lucy Lane.
So it's no longer an item in the CIP. Anybody familiar with where Lake Lucy Road. Lake Lucy
Road heads west, and you take a right at the Y like you're going to go into Pheasant Hills and
then the road almost dead ends and you have to take a sharp right into Pheasant Hills. This is a
trail connector from that point forward over to Galpin Boulevard, which some people in the
neighborhood. Some did not want. Commission looked at it. Thought it was a good suggestion
and put some money in. The council last year took it out... So we'll look at that. When we sit
down with some more time I' Il show you where that is. If you get a chance to go out there and
look at it. These little trail connectors are great to make local trips so people go out for a walk or
a run and they want to get back, but generally neighbors hate them going in so they're difficult to
put in. Nice amenities. Where, we have a road easement here. It's not just a trail easement. We
have a full road easement so you've got plenty of room to work in, and at one point we got pretty
close to making it happen and it just hasn't happened over time. Bandimere Park to Chan Hills.
The pending project. Page 69. Page 70. Pending project, the 101 trail. Page 71, trail and road
reconstruction at Lake Ann Park currently has $485,000 allocated in 2003. You need to make a
decision if you want to do that. To try to take a look at alternatives, you may have seen portions
of the road tonight. We've asked for a price, an overlay. A mat overlay so they take a fiber mat.
Overlay that and then take asphalt on top of that. And you receive another 10 to 15 years of use
and drop the cost down to about $150,000 versus 485 so. 485 is complete reconstruction. Take
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
out everything that you see there in the old part of Lake Ann. Curb and gutters. Storm water
ponding. Brand new road section. Or you just continue to patch it with an overlay.
Happe: Todd, if I can hang you up on this one for just a minute. Can you just re-explain for us
again why this particular fund is being used to pay for streets and parking lots. Would that
traditionally come out of the general fund or would that traditionally come out of Park and Rec?
Hoffman: ...20 years and served all the citizens. I do not think it meets the intent of park
dedication. Why is it taken out of there? Because it's very easy to do. It's a dedicated fund. Got
a million 7 in there. Let' s take it out of the park dedication.
Happe: So in theory we're going to take funds that have been raised to build new amenities and
new parks, and we're going to reallocate those funds to repair, restore or rebuild a 20 year old
road and a parking lot to go with it?
Hoffman: That's what this document says, yes. I don't support that.
Stolar: How was the road originally funded? Was it the park dedication to build the park?
Hoffman: There was no park dedication when Lake Ann was built. It was built with general
fund allocation.
Stolar: Do bond funds for parks and trails also go into this fund? Not just the dedication fees but.
Hoffman: It'd be held separately. So the last park fund held in a separate account specifically for
those improvements identified in the park fund. And so, and then operations and maintenance is
a general liability. General tax liability and then the city general CIP general tax liability and
then we have park dedication.
Happe: Todd, have we historically been asked to bear the burden of paying for roads and parking
lots on revamps like this?
Franks: Not since I've been on the commission but this idea of rebuilding the Lake Ann road has
been around for a while. It's not anything that's coming up new. It hasn't been resolved yet I
don't think so. My feeling is, is even, Todd you threw out doing an overlay for $150,000 and that
sounds like wow, we can side step for the 485 if we go for the 150. My feeling on that is, the
precedent that that sets I think is dangerous. In that what we're saying, although we think maybe
we're getting by less expensively, we're still saying that it's okay to do what I consider
engineering improvements on existing facilities with park dedication bonds and I think that that's
not a precedent that we as a commission want to begin to endorse because it's one that future
commissions will have to face again and again and again. Is my feeling on this.
Happe: So what would you, in your opinion, what would your recommendation be for dealing
with that $485,000 looming bill?
Franks: I think that this issue here is a fantastic issue to bring up at one of the work sessions that
we'll be having with the City Council. One of the things to remember is that although we are
doing this budgeting, this is not our money. This is the council's money that is, this is real
confusing now. So we're not spending this money. We're making some recommendations about
how these funds should be allocated into what projects. The problem for us is, and you'll begin
to feel it too I think is you start to feel some ownership over this and the projects and the things
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
and so you know, when these disagreements arise, we have to remember what our job is. But I
think right now our job is to do some education about how we see this to the council.
Hoffman: And then just to make a recommendation.
Franks: And to make a recommendation.
Hoffman: If you feel that this, then you would say, this project will not be a part of the CIP.
Stolar: How did it get here in the first place though? Was this something the City Council said
put it in or something we just did to highlight the need?
Hoffman: It was something that...the previous city manager put in, and I continue to push the
question that we need the Lake Ann road to be reconstructed and he said fine, I'll put it in park
dedication.
Happe: So if I'm understanding correctly, if it's in the CIP, it's our recommendation?
Franks: We will approve the CIP and then that will go forward to the council.
Stolar: Is there any statutory rule about what can and cannot come out of here? At all.
Hoffman: Yes but they're pretty vague. As long as you're building park facilities and not
spending.
Stolar: On operations, yeah. But what about maintenance? Like trails for example. If a trail
buckles and it needs to be repaired, it shouldn't come from this fund.
Hoffman: Again statute wise you're not going to find the differentiation.
Stolar: Historically what have you done?
Hoffman: Historically what have we done? Historically we have not invested park dedication in
maintenance and as far as we will continue to send that message that redevelopment should come
out of the redevelopment fund and general obligation fund. Redevelopment shouldn't come out
of money that was placed in a fund to build new facilities to meet the needs of existing, or future,
people that have just moved here. Can you imagine 20 years from now the list of redevelopments
and if you garner every new development dollar and put it into redevelopments, you're not
meeting the intent of legislation.
Stolar: And that's what, a couple of things relate to this. One, in Eden Prairie they did do a
bonding fund just to do replacement or repair and threw it all in the CIP fund so that was one of
our revenue sources along with park dedication. They co-mingled them, because they were a
maturing city, right to your point. 10 years. 15 years from now that's where the shift comes so
they just co-mingled it, but still some development. The other question is, are we going to have
any rack then if we say something against this yet we're going to replace or repair some park
play areas with the same fund? That, I just want to make sure because I agree with Rod. I don't
want it in here, but I want to make sure we make our case well.
Hoffman: That's another question that we have, I've asked for a replacement fund, just like we
replace vehicles under replacement...and it's pick your battles.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Stolar: I understand. Thanks. We can put this money as our replacement funds for play areas.
Franks: There's a larger philosophical issue too here is that as we expand out and maintenance
becomes the larger expenditure than development, how is it that that's going to be funded?
Especially since those new revenue dollars into the park dedication account aren't coming in.
And I think we're seeing that now where our system is getting big. Maintenance is getting bigger
and bigger and bigger.
Happe: Probably a pretty clear distinction we can draw though between replacing a broken swing
seat and revamping and restoring road, a park road. Maybe that will be where the difference...
Stolar: But in the broader issue, when is the year, and we'll get to some of that but when is the
year we think we need to replenish the funds because we aren't going to have dedication fees to
start replacing these things that were built starting in the 80' s.
Hoffman: There's no lack of things to spending money on. $800,000 on 101 trails. $200,000 or
more up here. Park buildings so if we can start reaching a consensus with all the decision makers
that replacement means minor replacement from the general obligation fund. That's just going to
help everybody in the future. How many times have we told robbing Peter to pay Paul? Okay,
onto the Marsh Glen trail connector. That's a scheduled project. Tree plantings, scheduled
project. 74, park shelter, Bandimere Community Park. Scheduled out $175,000 in 2005 which
would most likely would not be putting the shelter necessary at that time. Justification,
Bandimere Park is the second busiest park in town. It hosts thousand of users each year.
Provision of service is that a shelter will greatly increase the level of satisfaction of park users.
Page 75. Half court basketball at Bandimere Heights Park, $15,000. A small item on the master
plan. Skate park ramp. Again in 2003 I think we need to add, move this $75,000 and spend it on
a natural ramp instead of on other improvements that we thought would justify in time.
Maintenance equipment, trash receptacles. We have one more year. They're replacing all the
ugly blue barrels with attractive trash receptacles... Permanent park benches and tables are an
ongoing improvement that we're putting in our park system as it matures. Trail connector,
Highway 5 at Riley Creek is a scheduled project. And the trail connector, Highway 5 at Bluff
Creek...
Franks: After the scheduled projects in year 2002 are completed, what kind of a fund balance are
we looking at?
Stolar: Roughly 1.275. Something like that.
Hoffman: There's a million 6 thousand scheduled to be invested. That most likely would come
down to about a million 3. $400,000 approximately. Plus revenues for 2003. So that gives you a
swing anywhere from 3 to 6.
Happe: What are projected revenues Todd?
Hoffman: No. Projected revenues are probably about $250,000 to $300,000. Maybe a little
higher. Projected expenditures, $1.3 to $1.6. Current balance of $1.7. So you're taking it down
to anywhere from $100,000 to $300,000 and adding on anywhere from $250,000 to $300,000.
Happe: Does that include removing City Center Commons out into 2003? Okay, I gotch ya.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002 ,
Hoffman: So 2002 is a huge year for park dedication.
Stolar: If what you're saying is true, the 865 listed here can't be spent in 2003, right?
Hoffman: Correct. Unless...are designated .... this is the time for discussion with the City
Council on how this community wants to move forward with capital budgeting for parks.
Franks: Right. There's just certain realities that we have to face. That these type of large
reconstruction or maintenance expenditures are going to be tagged onto the park dedication fund,
we are going to be unable to meet needs that the community's expressing like their playground
equipment and their trail connections. We're just not going to be able to do it. And those are the
funds that will be necessary to complete those projects. This is a good time for that discussion.
Stolar: When we actually do this final thing, could you have that rev, projected revenue line,
balance line on a summary sheet?
Franks: After going through the overview, are there any other thoughts about the projects or any
projects that you've noticed that you'd like to see that you didn't see?
Happe: Talking just 2003 or extending out beyond that?
Franks: Well we can take it in 2003 and move out forward.
O'Shea: I think we need to look at the skate park and spend more money there.
Franks: In 2003?
O'Shea: Yes.
Franks: For equipment purchase.
O'Shea: For more ramps and expand it.
Franks: Well we've been doing that at about $7,500 increments. Is that amount still enough to
buy? It's not is it? About what dollar amount to add onto the skate park?
Hoffman: Well if you want to add a single small...that will do it. If you want to add a single
large component it's $10 to $12,000. $10,000 to $15,000. If you want to add multiple, it goes up
from there.
O'Shea: I think isn't it one of the most heavily used areas?
Hoffman: The most heavily used.
O'Shea: Is that I think we really need to look at that and making it as good as we can.
Hoffman: ...during the summer all the facilities in town are used very heavily, and so they're all
important.
Stolar: Are we for this, are we looking at just this is continual expansion of it or is it also
replacement? For the skate park.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Currently it's expansion.
Stolar: There's room to expand for the next 5 years of material, what we have there will be fine?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Stolar: Okay. And then you said there were park play areas we're going to have to replace, that
there's a list. I only saw one or two here. What other ones come up in the next 5 years between
now and 2007 that you think?
Hoffman: I'll put that together for you. There's 10 of those playgrounds out there in all. They're
scattered throughout the city, generally in the older areas of town so, Meadow Green Park, that's
a huge park. Curry Farms Park. Minnewashta Heights Park with wooden play structures. I'll
incorporate those into the list.
O'Shea: On that note, because they're aging neighborhoods? The equipment you're putting in, is
that what the neighbors want to see or are the kids older that they're not being used that much?
Hoffman: That's a good question. Neighborhoods age. But a neighborhood playground is just
one of those amenities that everybody expects every park is going to have, and so you might
change the age group on a phase. Let's say okay, we're going to redevelop and you get together
with the neighborhood and they say well all our kids are older currently. Let's put Phase I in for
the older kids. And then Phase II...turnover. But there's not a single neighborhood park that we
have in this city that does not have a playground.
O'Shea: Right. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have something for them, but is a kiddie what
they need for the age that they think they're going to use that park for?
Hoffman: Yeah, that's an individual decision at the time. Every time we put a playground in a
neighborhood, we bring them in. They generally pick it.
O'Shea: Okay.
Stolar: Do you want discussion on the...construction at Lake Ann?
Franks: I think...getting this wrong is what I'm hearing is there's some, there's still some things
we need to pick up about that but if I can pull this back too. What I'm hearing is, there's some
consensus here that this commission is also viewing this expenditure as one that may not be
appropriate to come under the park dedication fees.
Happe: It's absolutely not consistent with park dedication fees and their intended purpose.
Stolar: And not fiscally feasible given our current funding.
Franks: And I think just having that understanding that that's the current consensus of the
commission with the information that we have now is enough really on that issue for now.
Happe: But one of the things we do want to take a look at for Lake Ann Park, that we've talked
about tonight is within that picnic and park area. If there's potential to do, what are we calling a
shelter.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002 ,
Franks: A shelter.
Happe: So with the only expenditure listed for Lake Ann Park for the next 5 years being to fix
their road, we probably, there's some great space there that could be enhanced with residents
requests for different amenities for picnics and corporate functions, etc.
Franks: Well I'm just looking at the overall 2002 through 2006. Some of the things that I'm
saying just throwing out is, you know if the silo right now is not a safety concern, I think that's
one of those nice things that will polish the park but I think that we can maybe use those dollars
better in some other places right now and that be one of those kind of polishing up amenities we
might do later. Also I feel kind of the same way about the interpretative signage around Kerber
Pond right now. That's nice but I think we really have to start looking hard at creating the hard
amenities instead of filling out the soft amenities so to speak.
Stolar: On that one, is there some way we can get someone to possibly do that as a project?
Look at ways for Arboretum or a college group, come out and view it so that we don't have to
spend?
Happe: It would be a good Eagle Scout project.
Hoffman: Possibility. There's not a real direct tie between Kerber Pond Park and any
organization that would be interested in doing that. If you have a closer tie, if it was adjacent to a
university. The Arboretum probably believes that they do enough for the community in their
current establishment.
Happe: The up side is, I mean it's, there's a percent of the overall budget is what, 6-7 percent of
the projected revenue so the dollars are up significant, if it' s a project we want to go forward
with, it's certainly affordable. But it may be a logical place to cut.
Franks: Right. Well I'm not necessarily looking for cuts. Pushing them out, right. Right. You
know we're looking at potentially doing projects that are going to draw the balance of the park
fund down pretty low, and so we really want to look at how we're really spending those dollars.
In the past the commissions have traditionally been pretty frugal in attempting to save money and
build up reserves. I think at least in the short term the days of having reserves are gone and we
have to think about how we're going to use the dollars that we have at the time most effectively.
Happe: As part of the impact, or part of the desire to have been to use the dollars that we have
available to get continuous improvement across the boards in our parks or to focus that money in
a selected projects? Is one of our objectives brought to be able to impact the multiple parks or is
the objective to funnel that money into the major projects?
Franks: Which money are you talking about?
Happe: The park and rec dedication.
Franks: You know it's really to do both. We need to keep developing the existing parks that we
have in a way that's consistent with the master plans and appropriate for the residents that are
around the neighborhood parks, and then also look at the bigger questions too about community
parks, land acquisition, being involved in something like the community center so the larger
scale. I really see it as both.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Hoffman: And generally it was an orderly progression. We were in a huge growth spurt for
about a dozen years, and we just couldn't get around to everybody's project that year and the
commission said you know, just wait until next year. We'll get to your park. We'll get to your
playground. There were neighborhoods that were just about fully developed and we had physical
space for the playground in the park but it just wasn't there yet and so then the allocation was
made and so there was almost this orderly fashion. You know you' 11 be next and that's what
occurred and that's, the growth has slowed down. What I'm hearing is that we want to separate
and as long as we make that clear separation and are bringing that, when we have a replacement
or a maintenance project, it's going to go on a different list. It's going to go over here on a list
that says these projects are maintenance and replacement and they should, they need to be funded
from somewhere else. These projects are development improvement and that's what the
commission is going to focus on as we have a park system that we want to continue to develop
and improve. We have a funding source. Here's our recommendation. Our recommendation
over here is to take these, find different allocations so these projects can move forward and then
it's a policy decision of the City Council. As long as you have that clear distinction I think then
they know where you're coming from and we don't continue to mix these things as we go
through this growth transition.
Franks: Which I think has happened in the past. We have mixed. What Glenn was mentioning
earlier I think that developing a priorities ranking for these replacement things and so it's not just
us necessarily sitting around thinking well, let's replace another swing this year. But really based
on certain criteria, it's at the top of the list.
Stolar: I can look and see. I had my Eden Prairie one. We had certain things. Safety was always
number one. That always rocketed to the top. So playground where kids are getting splinters.
Franks: But I really do see a difference between adding a Phase II play equipment versus
replacing existing equipment. And I think we do run into the same problem with, if we start
using the same funding source, or recommending that the same funding source be used for
replacing old equipment, we're going against the stand we're making on Lake Ann Road just like
you were saying Dave so. We're there Todd.
Happe: One additional question. Do we have an opportunity to put together a list of projects?
Typically the Lion's club or even an Eagle Scout project, etc. I mean there's a certain amount of
these projects that would be great to have available as community projects should they, should a
Lion's Club or Kiwana's Club or any one of our various civic or service organizations. Should
we be more vocal or more visible in terms of what those opportunities might be? Not necessarily
soliciting you know service projects, but at least have identified what some of those major
initiatives could be, should a.
Franks: I don't want to be a downer on that because in theory it's a great idea and I know I've sat
up here and I've said that too, and I've watched the great ideas come out and the ability for our
local service clubs or organizations to really come through on really anything big, significant
project I think is pretty limited now. And so it begins to be kind of a frustration for everybody.
Hoffman: Dave, as a staff member I'm well connected with each of those clubs and they all have
made commitments to the community and some have met those commitments. The Lion's are
still meeting a commitment on the Lake Ann ballfield. They had $100,000 commitment. They
lost the charitable gambling and so they're continuing to pay back in chunks of $3,000 and
$4,000 and $5,000 of that commitment and they're over halfway there. So and the Rotary, I'm a
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
member of the Rotary and those people are talking about where can they get some...and then the
chamber, that's about it.
Stolar: One other question on this part of your plan. We know that the trails are the big amounts.
Do we, it may be too late for all that that's going on this year, but do we want to isolate trails that
are new trails connecting new neighborhoods and pay park dedication fees versus trails going in
towards the master plan of an old neighborhood. Again park dedication fees, you and I talked
about this last night. They don't cover what we're spending on the 101 trail. And they got parks
besides that. I mean between 101 trail, just trails this year, that's 1.2, 1.3 million dollars, just for
trails out of our $1.7 budget. I'm not saying right or wrong. I'm just saying clearly identifying
them because then you can distinguish, and I'm more worded about beyond here. In the
$250,000 we get next year, making sure that we identify. That money that's revenue is to help
connect trails for those new neighborhoods and really focusing on that versus building a trail on
my neighborhood which we're already there. Whether we have a trail or not, we paid our park
dedication fees. We got our park. These new neighborhoods, we can put a trail there that
connects them to the rest of the city. I don't know if that's another divider we'd want to put in.
Hoffman: Well we always try to put those trails in with road construction so we don't end up
paying for them.
Stolar: Okay. So that's how you cover them, okay.
Hoffman: In new developments we want the trails going in right away.
Stolar: Right away, okay.
Hoffman: We played catch-up in the '97 referendum with the 7 miles of trails that went in
existing neighborhoods and we didn't have park dedication. We didn't have a million 5 to put
into trail developments so we put it out to a referendum.
Franks: That's a good point because those big trails on Galpin and Powers and all those were
done with the referendum.
Stolar: Okay. That's why I was looking, there was a 2.9 or 4.9 referendum.
Franks: We're really looking at two projects that are listed in 2002 and 2003 that have some
philosophical issues attached to them and just the points that you're bringing up.
Hoffman: Chair Franks, I'm prepared to clean up this budget proposal for the commission, on
behalf of the commission and bring it back to you at your next meeting. If you have additional
comments or other commissioners have additional comments, I'd be glad to take those but I think
we just need to move forward and clean it up and hearing the discussion on what you'd like to see
completed.
Franks: At what meeting do you anticipate this coming back to us?
Hoffman: June. And then July.
Franks: Big meeting. Alright. That wraps up new business.
34
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS:
Ae
SUMMER ACTIVITIES.
LAKE ANN PARK OPERATIONS.
Hoen: Thank you Chair Franks, members of the commission. The following list is a list of
programs I'm offering for this summer. The list includes some previously, programs we've had
in previous years. Some new programs this year. Some of the new programs I'm offering this
year include field trips to Bunker Hills Wake Pool, Minnesota Lynx basketball game. Camp
Caterpillar is a preschool program that we're doing in cooperation with Science Explorers. Some
of the youth programs that are new this year are Emergency Room and Science Blast Off which is
also that we do in cooperation with the Science Explorers. Introduction to Lacrosse Camp.
Advanced Lacrosse Skills Camp for Boys and Girls. As well as Robichon's Ramp which is the
inline skating classes up here at the skate park. And Fishing for Fun. It's a program that teaches
kids some fishing techniques. Catch and release and teaches them to respect nature. Any
questions on that?
Franks: So we're still having preschool programs? I just had to say that, sorry.
Hoffman: They've very popular. If you want to take them away, make the motion.
Franks: No. Any comments from the commission? Any questions for Corey?
Happe: Corey, is there any plans, are we doing anything different in terms of the publicity for
these events or are we on the same course of action?
Hoen: Same course. We've got fliers at the schools. We've got fliers at the Chan Rec Center.
Fliers up here at City Hall. And then obviously our Chanhassen Connection that goes out to
every Chanhassen resident.
Happe: Does the Villager do anything with...
Hoen: We do some advertising with the Villager. It's whenever they have space.
(Them was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Stolar: ...the only point they came back was they wanted to know if their approach would have
any bearing on maintenance costs, long term and the answer was from the designer it was no. It
shouldn't but they asked him to still come back with any issues related to that long term
maintenance cost. The highly selective things. The types of benches. The plantings, all sorts of
different questions like that but it went very well I thought.
Franks: What were some of the things that they added in?
Stolar: The one funny thing was the transformer box. They want to look at possibly moving that
in Phase I as opposed to in the overall master plan. They want to look at that one. That's one of
those that put it as an add-in, let's figure out, or look into that but they haven't necessarily said it
has to be in Phase I. But they thought it would be easier if we're going to build the sidewalk out
35
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
there. Get it out of the way now. Just build the whole entranceway and not have to redo the
entranceway once you get it out in the secondary phase. Some of the, again I didn't have the list
but they had several items up through number 28 that were all landscaping items to just move 4
trees.
Hoffman: Trees, plantings, flowers, grasses, arbors, the benches. The additional seating.
Happe: They did do the arbors?
Stolar: No, I thought they pulled the arbors. The arbors I don't think were in the.
Hoffman: On the list it was $15,000 for smaller arbors.
Stolar: Smaller arbors, right. They pulled the bigger arbors out of the master plan.
Franks: Big.
Happe: Have all the commissioners seen the plan for City Center Commons? The master plan
from.
Hoffman: Right there.
Stolar: I think it was the lighter shaded ones are the ones that were later phases and some of those
they pulled in.
Hoffman: So we have here this evening...in this location and from the discussion last night, the
tree.., so even outside of where this new maple would be introduced.
Stolar: That was the other thing. They asked about that tree being removed, just to put a maple
there when it's not significantly in the way.
Hoffman: The grading is going to most likely change... We have the new library. The new court
yard area between City Hall and the library. The library drops off. Parking lot. Additional
parking lot in this location. And then the main area for the City Center Commons in this location.
This is where the transformer is located and very nice...
Happe: Thanks Todd.
Hoffman: Construction to occur in 2003.
Franks: Was there any comment about the involvement of park dedication fees in funding for
this?
Stolar: No.
Franks: Okay. Thanks a lot.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Franks: Any comments?
36
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Lots of information on the school district for you... The difference in the miles, one
has a high school in Chanhassen, one does not.
Happe: The memo on the Seminary Fen.
Hoffman: The Governor vetoed the allocation for the fen as a part of the budget.
Happe: Line item veto?
Hoffman: It was a huge effort by a wide array of government groups, non-profit groups. They
had volunteer citizen lobbyist working this one single item down at the capitol so disappointed to
see it cut.
Happe: Well one of the positives about the funding that Mr. Workman secured for 101, what did
get approved in the budget for $500,000 so.
Franks: That was too bad. Maybe next time. That's the nice thing about the legislature, there's
always another session. Alright, is there anything more on the Administrative Packet? Just one
thing I'd add in. If you're interested in seeing a very interesting tournament, June 1st and 2n~
down at Lake Susan. The INT water ski and wakeboard tournament will be held down there. If
it's a nice day, walk down there. You can see how that park can be used and how the lake is used
and it's just really kind of cool. Cool tournament to see so, 1st and 2nd of June.
Happe: I appreciated the park tour we took tonight. I'd like to do that as often as everybody else
is agreeable to getting out and seeing the parks so.
Hoffman: You bet.
Franks: Okay, great. Well if there's nothing more, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
Spizale moved, Happe seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
37
CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 25, 2002
Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Jack Spizale, Amy O' Shea, Glenn Stolar, and Paula
Atkins
MEMBERS ABSENT: Tom Kelly and Dave Happe
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent; Susan Marek, Recreation Center Manager; Kara Wickenhauser, Senior center
Coordinator; and Dale Gregory, Parks Superintendent.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Jerry Ruegemer asked that Greg Blaufuss was present to talk to
the commission regarding a Frank Scott Memorial.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Hoffman: City Council awarded the 2002 trail connector project last evening. Amy was present
so the only outstanding aspect of that project is the acquisition of the Limited Use Permit, or the
LUP from MnDot, so I'll be meeting with them over the next few days and finalizing the details.
MnDot has a very rigid set of specifications for installing improvements within their right-of-
way. They are flexible and so those are the points that we'll be talking about. Such things as
they only want 10 foot trails. This is an 8 foot trail. They have some surface water runoff issues
and curbing issues. Clearance issues so we'll be meeting with MnDot on all those items and then
lining up the contractor and getting him going, probably within the next 30 days.
Franks: Great. Wonderful.
Hoffman: They also approved the RFI and that will be mailed the first part of next week to all
those potential partners for a future community center in Chanhassen.
Franks: And about how many partners are you, potential partners are you mailing to?
Hoffman: There's a list of probably just under 20. 17 or so.
Franks: Thank you Todd. Any other announcements?
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Greg Blaufuss: I'm Greg Blaufuss, 7116 Utica Lane in Chanhassen. I've been a resident for 16
years. I'm here tonight, as Jerry alluded to, to make an informal proposal or something that
would maybe spur some action on behalf of the kids in the community and the sports
organizations to ask for some type of something, I don't have specifics, but something that would
memorialize the volunteer efforts of Frank Scott. I'm going to ask now, the teacher in me asks,
raise your hand if you didn't know Frank Scott.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: You know I think what might be helpful Greg, if you're willing to take some time just to
give a little.
Greg Blaufuss: I'd gladly do that. I didn't want to, I don't want to take too much of your time
but I'll just try to summarize Frank's volunteer efforts in the community. He came here about 10
years ago. I'll use quite a few about's because I don't have the exact dates but, as a grandfather,
was a grandfather at the time and volUnteered immediately came to the CAA to volunteer as a,
anything he could do. I think he wanted the President's job actually. So one of the guys
remembered today, as we were talking about some other stuff, and we told him that it was
probably a good idea to start a little bit lower because the President's job was a handful at the
time, and is even more so now but so he took, I think he settled on a director of athletics or
something for the CAA. But was more than a board member. I mean he was a volunteer through
and through. He looked to do hands on things. Things that would benefit the players and the kids
and did a good job at it. I have some notes here, I guess I'll use my cheaters. Yeah, hands on
volunteer. Like I said, he started about 10 years ago. We lost him to cancer. The community lost
him to cancer about 2 years ago if I'm not mistaken. And in that time he started with the CA3,
and he moved onto the Chan/Chaska Soccer Club and worked for us, or volunteered for us.
During the course of his volunteerism in the community, and mostly with the sports groups, he,
we decided because our conscience kind of bothered us at the CAA level, we decided to offer him
some, just a pittance. I mean something to, for gas money or something because he was easily
working 40 hours a week for the club at the time. And that's the way that he came to us, the
form that he came to us at the Chan/Chaska Soccer Club as well. He also was involved with the
volunteer, or I'm sorry, the Victoria groups, athletic groups just before he passed away and was
officed out of a building that they recently bought. So between those three sports groups he did a
lot for the community. In addition he was mostly interested in helping the kids and moving
things forward that would benefit the kids, but in addition to that he had a seat here for a while I
think. It didn't serve the purpose that he thought, he originally intended it would. That being to
serve the kids or to make headway on things that would benefit the kids. He, I saw him when I
voted. I saw him when we'd come up here to park cars. He'd be directing traffic. He was all
over the community. So the reason I'm here tonight, and the reason that this has been kind of on
my to do list for a while, is that I think he's a good, he's an excellent role model for people who
would like to volunteer with all of these guys. I've invited past presidents and other sports
members of the community to come for support but as we all know it's more and more difficult .to
find volunteers these days, and especially the caliber of Frank who most of the years that he
volunteered for us did not have a player or even a grandson participating in the sports. So I'm
thinking, you know I said I don't have specifics in mind when it comes to what I'm looking for
but I'd like something, not just to name a building after him or something but something that
would remind people of what he did for the community and hopefully spur other people on to do
that same thing. I was fortunate enough to meet Frank at the first meeting he was at when he
wanted to be the president right off the bat, and it was about 2 weeks before he passed away that I
was in my last meeting with him and inbetween I worked with him in various capacities. A
couple presidencies and all of that so I know him quite well. But more importantly I'm looking
to, for this community rather. Not I, but I think the community should be looking to set this as an
example for other senior citizens and members of the community that would like to, or haven't
thought about volunteering. And on those lines I thank you for your time that you spend here.
Franks: Thanks Greg. Todd, is there anything more you'd like to add?
Hoffman: If there's anyone else that would like to share some thoughts of Frank. He was a
special man in the community and he served on this commission so if anyone else would like to
talk. The city at the time of Frank's death contributed $500 to the Frank Scott Memorial Fund so
that was done immediately following his death. And there was a lot of talk at that time about
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
some sort of memorial because Frank was probably, had the largest impact, or he spent just the
hardest working volunteer for youth sports that I've seen in my time here. In terms of the time
that he contributed to the city so there was a lot of discussion at that time, but there's no criteria
currently that the City Council has for memorials and so we have nothing to base it on. It's
something the community should be talking about so I'm glad that Greg came in and if anyone
else.
Franks: Well you know, I think I'm the only sitting commissioner right now that was actually
here on the commission when Frank was active, and so if there are any of the rest of you would
like to come up and just let everybody else know about Frank, I think it'd be really appreciated.
Joe Scott: I'm Joe Scott, 7091 Pimlico Lane in Chanhassen. I'm not related to Frank and I guess
I wish I was, but my work with him involved, I'm currently the president of the Chan/Chaska
Soccer Club and I got to know Frank through that organization and that was, the thing that really
amazed me about him was that most people who would volunteer to a youth sports organization
have a kid in it. So it's like I'm the president as I mentioned. My daughter's in the club. Is it
selfish? Yeah. Maybe not, but he didn't have anybody in any of these organizations. He did
have one grandson for a couple of years. I mean but he was totally into it. He could always be
counted on to do stuff, and as Greg mentioned, you just, he was like one of these people. You
would see him at, it appeared anyway, at every youth sporting event. He'd be there watching.
He'd be there directing traffic. Concessions and so forth, and he was so beyond what you would
normally expect from a volunteer. And I know at our school district level, volunteerism is one of
the seven things that we really want our kids to consider. And this might be kind of a fitting way
to do this, and if there' s any sort of memorial, I think it' s important that not only do you have the
person's name, but volunteer or something like this so people know that this person was a
volunteer and this is the length to which we as a community go to make sure people understand
who these folks are. So that, those are basically the extent of my comments. Thanks.
Franks: Thank you.
Greg Hromatka: Good evening. My name's Greg Hromatka, 7580 Canyon Curve, and I moved
here in '90 and got involved with the CAA a year ortwo after that. When my oldest daughter hit
about 5-6 years old, and met Frank early and the spirit of volunteerism with Frank can be
epitomized by, you have jobs to do and you know you're begging people to come and do
whatever, and Frank would show up with the hard hat. And that was it. I mean he was always
there and I can't say enough about him. It would just echo on but we could go all night with it,
what he said. Thank you.
Franks: Well we like to hear from everybody so. There's always time on this commission for
that.
Jack Jensen: I'd feel left out if I didn't say something. I'm Jack Jensen at 8480 Pelican Court.
I'm the current president of Chanhassen Athletic Association, CAA which they alluded to.
Frank, I mean I was also at the first meeting Frank was at. I was the president that was stepping
out at the time and I came back. But yeah, what's that?
Ruegemer: Quit having kids...
Jack Jensen: I know, geez. But it was, Frank was, I mean I see now what Frank meant to our
group of the CAA. I know he helped out with the Chan/Chaska Soccer Club and the Victoria
group too and his daughter helped out right after his passing and when he had gotten sick and it
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
was just so much that he had done that our volunteers almost, you know I don't know if they, you
know they appreciated everything that he did and he did more than what was asked of him. He
was like they alluded to before, he was always at everything. I mean even things with the city.
He'd go up to the Easter Egg Hunt, that type of thing. I mean he was, you'd see him everywhere
you know I mean, and I think he's, if he's, I think he's a Chan resident that lived in Shorewood
fight on the, I think his water bill ended up being our' s so that's why he was one of us. So it was,
and he did have some grandkids in the area. But that's not, he just wanted to keep going after he
retired from his job and he wanted to help and give back to the community and he saw that it was
a need to help us here and we appreciated the help. We needed the help. And he almost just like
almost single handedly took things in his own hands and make them work. You know if the plans
were each of the different committees, whether it be soccer, baseball, softball. I mean he just
took things to the end and just helped the board out. Myself and I know that Greg was on the
board. Joe's been on the board. Greg's been on the board, so it's just so much help that he's just
dearly missed in our organization and just a sweet, sweet person. So, and with the other
communities, I mean he'd always stand up for what we needed. If we needed fields in different
communities, he'd always be there for us to make sure that, you know he was at the meetings for
all these different communities. You know being the president I know there's just every
community has different meetings in baseball, softball, soccer, I mean you're just going all over
the place for the meetings and he was at all of them and just spent so much time doing it and I
think it would be just a great honor if we somehow just remembered him in something that, like
was also said that you know that the kids and the seniors and the people could see that, how much
he meant to us and boy, he's dearly missed. That's all.
Franks: Thank. I'd like to bring this back to the commission, if there's any comments.
Spizale: He sounds like a fantastic person. I wish I would have known him. There's no
precedent of doing something like this before, fight?
Hoffman: There's memorials. It's been more private basis for private residents have been made
in the community. Benches, trees, those type of things. There are streets, parks that are named
after individuals. That type of thing, but not in recent history has a memorial.
Spizale: Dave Huffman.
Hoffman: Yeah, Dave Huffman. There's a plaque at Bandimere Park. He was a commissioner
that served on the Park and Rec Commissioner would probably be the most recent, public figure
that's received a memorial on behalf of his family and...
Spizale: I would see something sports related, if they're to do something like that, it sounds like
it'd be a fight venue.
Franks: Amy.
O'Shea: Yeah, I think it would be excellent if we could do something to recognize that. To also
help promote recruiting fabulous volunteers, to use it as that outlet too. I think when we do this,
and maybe this is a time to do it is, that we need some criteria because then when someone else
comes that feels that they were an excellent volunteer, we need to have something that we're able
to format it and fit other people into that I think is important too because there might be, there's a
question of why we turn someone else down and why did we accept Frank Scott. But I think we
should look at this and try to brainstorm later to come up with some ideas.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Is that it?
O'Shea: That's the best...
Franks: Alrighty. Yeah, just a couple questions. I came on right as Frank was leaving and then
it's like he didn't leave. He was almost every Tuesday commission meeting, there was some kind
of issue or he was just going to sit up here and listen and make sure we did it right. Sit out in the
audience so he was sure committed. One of the things, questions that I have though from you all,
either from the CAA or the Chan/Chaska Soccer, is have you considered developing your own
like volunteer award within your own, within the athletic organizations? I guess what I'm
wondering, are you looking, because you mentioned volunteerism and really focusing on
volunteerism, and I had thought about that prior to that being mentioned. My thought up until
that had been okay, looking at some kind of physical field or you know some kind of recreation
amenity, memorializing that way but when you mentioned volunteerism, that sounds like
something more active.
Greg Blaufuss: Yeah, it's probably a good idea to'have something like that on an ongoing basis
too, to encourage volunteers to step forward and do their best...good idea, and I haven't ever
been involved in a discussion...but there's a small audience. I thought city wide going to
recognize his efforts and number two, to encourage others to do the same. And if you're wanting
to do it with, like I say, a small audience within 1,500 families, it's a one shot and it's gone and
they move out... What I'm thinking is something where...the Dave Huffman plaque that
remembers I think that mentions his volunteering in Boy Scouts. So yeah, a good idea. The
plaque should be probably brought up...recognize volunteers from here on out and maybe even
the past, but...
Franks: Okay, so you're thinking for the city to take a look at this, or this commission to really
look at something physical in nature, either a plaque or a naming a field or naming a building or
something. That's what you're really.
Greg Blaufuss: Yeah, and you know, to roll it in maybe with something else...put in a project or
in the future. Maybe just a park, idea that she mentioned other volunteers. Maybe we start
something that we could just keep adding volunteers of this caliber to and have a tradition,
encourage people to do...
Hoffman: One thing along those lines would be a large wall plaque in the recreation center
named the Frank Scott Volunteerism Memorial. Maybe put Frank at the top and then we lay
down a criteria for future nominations for that and then those are submitted to the city over time
and other people aspire to fill that same level and their name, based on that criteria. That's one.
Franks: Would it be too difficult to kind of combine the two approaches? One is for the city to
actually house and maintain the plaque and you know put up the new plaques, but really have the
Athletic Associations make the nominations and the decisions about their recipient of the award.
Does that get too complicated?
Stolar: Well I don't think, I think if we set up a criteria that we would look to you to provide us
with the names but I wouldn't limit it to just them. We would have other opportunities but if we
established a criteria, then I think anybody can submit them but the concern I would have, I agree
with your idea. I like that idea. I just want to make sure we have a good flow of people so that
doesn't have one name and all these blank names. I think we should work hard together to make
sure we maintain, because again it's to promote volunteerism.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Volunteerism in general or are we thinking volunteerism for our youth athletics?
Stolar: I was thinking for community athletics. I wouldn't just limit it to youth.
Hoffman: That's a good discussion for.
Stolar: Future meeting?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Stolar: I mean I think we should come up with the criteria and determine what it means but I
think we're pretty consistent saying maybe we honor him by making the plaque, the larger plaque
in his name.
Atkins: Yeah, I'd hate to see it maybe we should discuss whether it should be limited to
volunteerism just in that capacity. It could include volunteerism in any capacity in the city.
Possibly but if the name of the award was named after Frank Scott, that way he would be
memorialized. Then I think that we should have input from the athletic groups...
Franks: Well I hate to do this to you but it looks like you'll have some work to do, and that's
your job. It seems to me to be appropriate to direct staff at least to take a look at the other types
of awards that are presented by the city and the criteria that go along with them. And Todd, if
you couldn't just apply that and come up with some recommendations that we can talk over and
discuss. I'd also like for representatives from the athletic associations too to maybe get back in
touch with you at a later date, after they've had some discussion about exactly what it is that
they're considering too. Since the idea's really coming from you, I think it's pretty crucial that
we have that input.
Hoffman: I'll also contact Judy Scott and talk to her. Have a conversation about has the
memorial fund ever been applied to a project, and if not, she may choose to go ahead and apply
that, those funds to a project of this nature.
Audience: I talked to Jim tonight, his son, and he said they haven't done anything with the funds
but Frank, he thinks, they would prefer to use the funds on some type of a...
Franks: Okay, great. But if you can both, if you can do that, go back to your organizations and
say hey, you know what. It's obvious that as a commission we're really receptive to the idea of
finding the most appropriate way to put out there for the rest of the city the values that Frank
stood for. Children, athletics and volunteerism, so and then how we might combine that. If you
want to get back in touch with Todd, that'd be great. Todd, if you want to bring that up to us at
an agenda light meeting maybe, and then make sure it's, the people here today at least for sure are
notified that it's coming up on the agenda. Does that require a motion from us tonight?
Hoffman: No. It's under visitor presentation.
Franks: Great, thanks. Thank you. It appears we also have Joe Scott here tonight.
MULTI-BAND BENEFIT CONCERT - JULY 4TM, 2003 AND "TARGET MARKET"
CONCERT PROPOSALS: JOE SCOTT.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Joe Scott: Thank you very much. I'm at a different vein. One of the things that I've actually
been kicking around with Jerry and Corey and Todd is, being a musician and we see the tent and
the tables and chairs and stuff sitting idol during 4th of July, and there' s always a great concert
there on the 3rd of July so one of the things that, and this is really hasn't, doesn't have a lot of
specifics but what I was interested in getting your feedback on this concept is that, what I'd be
willing to do and there's 2 other gentlemen who weren't able to be here tonight, would be to put
on a concert and it would be involving different music acts that have at least one resident in
Chanhassen. There'd be some adult acts. I know a couple of high school bands that would be
interested, but what we're thinking about doing is having this to benefit something like the
Carver-Scott Food Shelf and basically how it would be promoted is, we'd want to have one of
your folks drive a dump truck or a pick-up truck or something like that promoting this concert
through the parade. We would basically hold it in the tent and then try to get it started maybe a
half hour before the end of the parade so that we have several thousand people downtown and it'd
be very natural for them to stay in downtown and come and listen to the music. We're thinking
maybe 3:00 to maybe 7:00 or 8:00. Something like that. So basically what I was interested in
finding out how receptive you would be to that sort of thing. From what I understand, the
utilities, I guess you guys are working on actually getting some better permanent power to that
part of the field. We would supply the staging, the sound systems, the acts. I mean there'd be no
expense to the city with the exception of you know driving the truck. What the concept is, is
we're going to try to fill this truck up with, if you wouldn't mind Dale, but the concept is to fill
this vehicle up with canned goods or something like that. So that's the first piece. The second
piece, and this is I'm thinking about for 2003. The second piece is something that's a little bit
more immediate. I think some of you may be familiar with the Target Market Group. It's the
youth anti-smoking group that's, it's a state organization that's funded by some of the money
from the tobacco settlement, and my son Dan, who also is a musician, has been contacted by their
regional group and they're really interested in putting on a target market concert in this area, in
the District 112 area. And what that involves is, they're looking for a venue. They will fund the
entertainment. They'll fund any sort of electricity that needs to happen. Security, trash, biffs,
that sort of thing, and one of the venues that kind of stands out would be, and I don't know the
field number, but when you come into Lake Ann you go past, there's like a football field. It's a
softball field that points toward Lake Ann and it's almost like a natural amphitheater. It's kind of
dug into the side of the berm there, and the thought is, would be to have some sort of a backstop
there. The stage would be in that area, and I think it'd probably be less disturbing for the
neighbors since it would be pointing out at the lake. So basically there's two concepts that we
wanted to get your feedback on. One is basically utilizing the tent and so forth for 4th of July,
2003... work it out with staff based upon their criteria. Then keep us involved. Let us know
what's going on. But so we're looking for at least your approval of the concept, but just basically
more direction for us to work with city staff. And if they happen to have objections that can't be
overcome, it's just not going to happen. The initial feedback is, it's a pretty sound idea. So that's
basically what I'm looking for on those two particular items.
Franks: Joe, do you want to stay up at the podium and see if there's any questions for from the
commission.
Joe Scott: I could. If this has to be recorded I should probably stay here. Otherwise I can sit
down. Whatever you guys want. I'll just stay here if you...
Franks: Well we can hear you better with your mic.
Joe Scott: Cool, okay. That's fine.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Are there any questions from commission members?
O'Shea: What does the city staff initially think about the 4z of July thing in the tent?
Ruegemer: We certainly have talked about it and discussed it in the past, and it appears it has
certainly the wish of this commission, or prior commission to kind of add something after the
parade so this may be a good fit.
O'Shea: We did do a performance of a melodrama act in the parade and it was...
Joe Scott: It was wonderful by the way.
O'Shea: ...and we had a huge crowd so I think people definitely would love to stick around and
have something to do.
Spizale: I think it's a great idea, because unfortunately it's like everybody kind of rushes out of
the city and you have that traffic problem of everybody trying to get on 5 at the same time and
being a newer resident of Chanhassen, I would definitely myself look for something to do after
the parade, since we're all here. And using the tent and the tables and everything that's there
basically. Plus it goes for a nice cause.
Joe Scott: Yeah. We'll raise the money necessary to get it working so that's, you guys don't
have to pay anything for that.
Atkins: Two comments. One, could the donation, whatever it may be, switch every year? So
that non-profits could then kind of bid in and they'd say well we have a 100 volunteers that could
help so is that flexible that it could go to?
Joe Scott: Yeah, we just basically want to do something and it's a good opportunity to showcase
some different musicians and I think that the people in town don't even realize there's a lot of
actually fairly well known acts that are headquartered in Chanhassen. But as far as, we just want
to donate something to an organization and the first thing that popped into our mind, because it's
more of a physical, canned goods type of thing would be the food shelf but, and then also too,
something like that it's, we don't want to get into a situation where we're collecting money.
That's just too risky, but if it's something where if you have something to donate, there's the
truck. If you don't, fine. You know so it's, we'll just see how it works and maybe get more
formal but I don't want to over engineer things. Basically what we're trying to do is, we'd just
like to pull it off without any injuries and then learn from it. And talk to these guys and say okay,
how did it go? A through F. Okay, what do we need to do differently? And then basically prove
that it can be done safely and then turn it into something a little bit more organized the second
time around and third and so fourth.
Atkins: Okay, and then the only other thing is, when I read this, and I didn't jump into the case
with the tobacco settlement. Right away I thought oh Target is involved.
Joe Scott: No.
Atkins: But that, I don't know if the name would be confusing to call it Target Market.
Joe Scott: For the audience. The whole target market concept, and I'm obviously, I'm not in that
demographic. But from what, when I talk to people who are usually, they're squarely targeting
pre-teens and teens and I know a lot of kids in that age group and they're very familiar with it and
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
it' s, they like it. It' s kind of edgy. It gets the message across and I' m excited that my son' s, well
he happens to be like way out of town right now but they had a chance to chat with him today and
he just wanted me to bring it forward. Have you guys think about it, but there's a lot of details
that have to be done and you know, these guys are the detail meisters so they'll make sure it's on
track and it's appropriate for what you guys want to have happen in town.
Hoffman: It has it's own logo. Target Market.
Stolar: Have we done anything like that before with specific groups like that? Allowing them to
do these concerts.
Hoffman: Not that I recall. Target Market will be at the 4th of July festival, or have they made
that commitment? We had a call from the high school at least showing an interest to be up here at
the street dance. I'm not sure if that's come about as yet so, but it's a good project I think for a
community to be involved in and they're at the high school and so bringing that out into the large
community I think we can only show support for good habits for our young people.
Stolar: And the question becomes, like any other group, where do we have criteria that, so that
we either one, make this a programmatic event where others can choose to do it. Whether it's the
tent idea, which is separate from this one or not, and then at what point do we have to put in some
criteria to say this type of thing is okay versus this type of thing? Because when you start getting
into causes, political causes, which are somewhat what this is, I get a little nervous. I'm for this
particular one. That's my opinion. I just want to make sure that, I think staff should look into it
but we should be cautious and make sure we understand. I understand what they do, they just try
to educate.
Hoffman: We're not going to be, we would not necessarily be a sponsor of Target Market. We
would simply write them a permit to utilize the facility and that's already covered under city
ordinance.
Stolar: Great. That's all I wanted to know.
Hoffman: They get a group gathering permit and.
Joe Scott: Loud speaker permit.
Stolar: The big part I like about this, aside from the cause itself, but the idea of opening a venue
that may not be fully utilized to something like this is a good idea. Both the tent and this other
one and I think any time we can do that, that's great.
Hoffman: The notion of having something after the parade has been kicked around for a number
of years because the big tents and the chairs are sitting there, you can utilize them twice for one
price. Some of the logistics I think if you put 500 people back under that tent they're going to
want something to eat and drink, and so there's some logistics about concessions and those type
of things and then making sure that the site is clean the morning after the dance so you have a
clean tent area for this type of thing. Those are issues that I don't think...
Franks: Thanks Joe.
Joe Scott: Cool. Thank you very much.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: I think both ideas are good. The one about using the tent. I wish we had started earlier
and were able to do that this year, but next year will be just fine with me. And the Target Market
one, you know we allow groups that the city does not sponsor to take permits and use our
facilities so, the NT Wakeboard tournament for one. We don't sponsor them but they certainly
are issued a permit to use all of Lake Susan Park so I don't really see too much difference
between the two, just so it doesn't conflict with whatever kind of schedules we have going on...
already so. Are we in consensus as a commission to direct staff to continue conversations with
Mr. Scott and/or representatives and kind of work out some of these details and when we start
planning the 2003 July 4th celebration, maybe have a presentation put before the commission with
maybe some more detail. I don't know how far they need to go through the permitting, applying
for permits prior to coming to the commission or?
Hoffman: On which one? On Target Market?
Franks: On Target Market, yeah.
Hoffman: That we'll leave up to them. You've said the idea is fine and the other one, the band
concert with the 4th of July, we'll continue to work with Joe as a partnership and then the Target
Market, he'll work on independently with those folks and get back to the city.
Atkins: So the event under the tent for this year is out? It's too soon?
Franks: Right.
Joe Scott: ...I mean anything's possible.
Hoffman: You'd have to just show up.
Joe Scott: That would be what would happen. It would be certainly ad hoc. I would not...
Franks: Sure. Well great, thank you.
Joe Scott: Thank you for your time.
Franks: Great ideas. Not seeing anyone else in the audience to address for visitor presentations,
we'll move on with the agenda to the approval of the minutes.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Franks: Any commissioners with comments regarding the minutes of May 29, 2002?
Atkins: Yeah, I'm listed under members absent and I'm pretty sure I was here. I was here.
Franks: And I believe Tom Kelly was absent.
Hoffman: That will change some things. Now there are probably some things that are said in
there that are.
O'Shea: That was my next one. On page 9, where O'Shea said, that was from Paula. I believe
that Paula.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: You're going to get a lot of that stuff now. Anything that Paula said is going to be
Amy so we'll have to make those changes.
O'Shea: But page 9, isn't it Paula? I think you were the first one to start.
Atkins: Yes.
Franks: Alright. So that's throughout.
Stolar: Not necessarily throughout but there's no distinction.
Hoffman: We'll correct that. My apologies.
Stolar: On page 20, just real quick. The number that should be used in my comment there is 9
percent of the people supported building a community center. Not 90. Just a little bit of a
difference. So throughout that paragraph it should just be 9. And then actually the next one
beyond that as well.
Hoffman: Nann will get to know you all real soon.
Franks: Jack, anything?
Spizale: No. All my stuff is correct.
Franks: Is there a motion to approve the minutes as to be corrected?
Stolar: So moved.
Franks: Second?
Spizale: Second.
Stolar moved, Spizale seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation
Commission meeting dated May 29, 2002 as amended. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
2002 4TM OF JULY TRADE BOOTH.
Hoffman: Thank you. The staff has reserved a booth for the 4th of July trade fair and for those of
you who have been participated in that event, you know what it is. It' s Chamber of Commerce
and all of the retailers in town, service organizations, politicians and the commission has had an
off and on tradition of being present at the trade fair attendance. It' s a great opportunity for some
face to face contact with the community, and to gather some just to conduct a couple hours of
public relations. So with that we've bartered for the $100 fee. The trade fair is still, the Chamber
is selling concessions and that cost them 100 bucks so we traded that $100 for your fee for the
trade fair. We have for your table, your booth, a table cloth, summer program brochures, the park
and trail maps, the Chan promo magnet clips that you saw a little while ago, to hand those out.
Suggestion box and cards, so people who don't want to say up front exactly what they're thinking
will write it down on a card. It was very helpful the last time we did it, and provide some good
ideas for the commission to start to think about and then anything else that the commission
requests. We received today some little, the kids, what do you call them? Tattoo's. It's the parks
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
and recreation...but we need, I know Corey has contacted all of you and everybody has
volunteered to work at the t-shirt sales and the other booth, so we need to start making some time
slot adjustments to make sure that we have both of these areas covered. The fair is scheduled
from 4:30 to 6:30. This booth will require 2 commissioners is best, and the 2 shifts that I have
identified is 4:00 to 5:30 and then 5:30 to 7:00 and do you know what time Corey's shifts are?
Ruegemer: I don't.
Gregory: 6:30 to 8:45 and 8:45 to 11:00 on the 3~. Something like that.
Hoffman: Same night. So it only affects the first shift. Somehow I'll allow Chair Franks to
resolve the shifts.
Franks: Well we can start by resolving that easy because I will be there at 4:00 for the first shift
for sure.
Hoffman: We need more than that.
Atkins: I'll work the first shift because I'm working for Corey from 8:45 to 11:00, so if I can do
4:00 to 5:30 and then I can have a break.
Hoffman: Now I need 2 for the 5:30 to 7:00.
Franks: Well let me see, Tom's not here and Dave's not here. Can't do that.
Stolar: One of them said they weren't going to be around the 4th of July either. I think Dave said
that he wasn't going to be around 4t~ of July.
Hoffman: Yeah, Dave will not be around. So we're talking 5:30 to 7:00.
Stolar: Right, which does that overlap with the other stuff Corey has, right?
Franks: Yeah, I mean I'll be hanging out Todd really technically until the end of the kiddie
parade. So that's probably close, more to 6:00 or a little bit later.
O'Shea: What was the first shift for Corey?
Stolar: 6:30, so I'm on the second shift so I could do the second shift here. I'll confirm that with
you guys, make sure nothing's planned beforehand.
Hoffman: So you can do.
Stolar: 5:30 to 7:00 potentially, I'll confirm it tonight and leave you a message.
O'Shea: And I think I have the first shift with Corey so I could do 5:30 to.6:30 then. If that
helps.
Hoffman: Sure does. Yeah, that takes care of it because it's really done at 6:30.
Franks: It really is. Thanks Amy.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: And I' 11 be there as well throughout the festival popping in and out.
Stolar:. This is the 3fa?
Hoffman: Street dance. It's right up here in the second tent. So you'll have a commission booth
and mingling with the people of Chanhassen about parks and recreation.
Franks: I'm just remembering the very first 4m of July I volunteered as a commissioner was in
the trade fair, and we had that sucker prize give away thing. I think I gave away all the prizes in
the first 20 minutes. I just couldn't help myself. Todd came by and he goes, where are all the
bike helmets. I gave them away. I think he went up to public safety and got a few more. It was
pretty funny.
REPORTS:
RECREATION PROGRAMS: 4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION.
Ruegemer: Well everybody knows that the big celebration is coming up next week. Corey's
been working like a little worker ant. Running around like crazy and trying to iron out all the
details. We do have obviously a few obstacles to overcome now that we've moved locations
again where, you'll see our old location is 6 feet under the ground now, but with the change in
location we are, somebody mentioned before that we are trying to overcome some power
obstacles at this point. We certainly have a Plan B in place right now so we have a lot of those
construction things covered. We need to iron out some more of those details but Corey's been
working very hard, pretty much working out all the details to get it figured out. We've been
looking at where food vendors are going. We did that pretty much all day today and locate for
tents and really trying to lay out a nice area up to the north of city hall here where it will fall with
people, as well as we're going to be utilizing north of the trail as well as the City Center Park and
we'll have pony rides up there, hot air balloon, water wars, the racing games, a lot of those such
things that will be north of the actual trail up at City Center Park so we'll be using a lot of that
kind of open space up in that area. So we're really trying to kind of lay out things where we have
power and where we don't have power and a lot of those things will fall into place here and of
course...come in early to try and get that together. Information has gone out for the schedule of
events. More will be coming out. Everybody had a chance I'm sure to look at the schedule of
events. Those are with your agendas. So as early as, you know the t-shirt sales have been okay.
We're giving a lot of those out to our sponsors here. Those went out today and tomorrow and
really just trying to get things all kind of pulled together. Does anybody have any questions? I
know that Corey has talked to, as made mention before, on the trade fair conversations that he has
contacted all of you about volunteering that evening so Corey would appreciate your help with
that so, he'll have more specifics as far as kind of job duties that evening. Prize board sales and a
lot of those types of assignments. Does anybody have any questions at all?
Franks: Just something from me to pass onto Corey is, I don't know if you want to consider at
some point in the evening on the 3ra, doing the t-shirt sale 2 for $15 or something because I know
we're packing up boxes of those shirts at the end of the night so.
Hoffman: Are we in control of that price?
Ruegemer: We are not.
Franks: We are not.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Ruegemer: I don't know if anybody knows that kind of story behind the t-shirt design. Basically
there's an idea that kind of formed from the Chamber, you know the City of Chanhassen. A lot
of people kind of came together on this with the idea of kind of having a community type of
event. Have a kind of solicit I guess students fi.om Chaska High School as well as Minnetonka
High School. Kind of solicit their ideas for a t-shirt design, and basically for I guess
compensation if your design was the winning design they, well not donate but they, you have
received a $1,000 check for your efforts and commitment I guess to that project. And then the art
departments then each of the winning school then was presented a check for $250 for that.
Basically the theme this year was pah-iotism so, and the design of the shirts then they had to
include patriotism in that design. So it being kind of a community type of spirit and effort behind
this, the price is the price.
Stolar: No matter where you buy it.
Ruegemer: No matter where you buy it, yes.
Franks: Can you sell them for $12 then in the tent?
Hoffman: You bet.
Franks: And the signage accordingly maybe.
Hoffman: 12 bucks.
Ruegemer: The proceeds then from the t-shirt sales will be going to the library project.
O'Shea: Is there a good variety of sizes?
Hoffman: There seems to be, isn't there?
O'Shea: There's always so many extra larges. It seems like there's always a lot more really huge
ones and I know that kids like to have them too.
Ruegemer: Yeah, I think there is kids sizes in there actually.
Hoffman: And it's next week.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
Marek: It seems a little odd to see you sitting in the middle there.
Franks: I've been in the middle my whole life.
Marek: Well congratulations on your position.
Franks: Thank you.
Marek: And welcome new commissioners. I'm here to tell you about the recreation center. I
come 4 times a year and you missed my last one. It was a multi-media presentation. Today
you're just getting me talking from a sheet of paper. Perhaps my next one will be a little more
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
vibrant for you. So this is my opportunity to update you on what is going on out at our rec center.
I'm going to go right down the list here and add a couple of extra things along with it. I did have
a beautification project to work on this year, and that included adding a perennial garden to the
front entrance of the rec center. Has anybody seen that little half circle out there yet? Okay, not
quite finished yet. We're finishing that park bench to go fight in the...that's for a very minimal
price of about $200, and some of Dale's labor. We were able to put that in there. We rescued
quite a few of those plants from the entrance of the library. So we're happy about that, so it's
going to be finished here in 4 weeks or so we get the bench. Other than that we've just been
upgrading some of the other garden areas around the rec center, which has been kind of fun. I
personally get to do that. The other thing with the summer, certainly our room rentals are much
slower than they are during the school year. Our business there is seasonal. We also have the
seasonal predictable decline in our fitness participants. But along with that kind of decline in
traffic in our building we still seem to be attending to quite a bit of front desk business.
Especially since the weather has been so horrible for 2 weeks of our summer programs, it's taken
up quite a bit of our time trying to manage parents and children and finding altemate locations
and canceling programs. So we're busy with that. Over the summer is our opportunity out at the
rec center to assign staff to special cleaning projects so we've already started that, so that by the
time September rolls around we're looking pretty spiffy out there. Big event that recently
occurred, our annual Dance for Fun recital was held on May 4th at the Eden Prairie Performing
Arts Center. There were 2 shows on that day with about 700 tickets sold for each show. The
theme this year was Boogie Fever, and we had a pretty rough rehearsal in the fact that we had no
music for the first hour and a half of that rehearsal so pretty hard to practice your dances when
you have no sound. But we got through it and amazingly the shows came off flawlessly. Mayor
Jansen was there and did participate in choosing some awards that were given out at the recital.
Very successful program for us. Another special program we run every spring is the 5K in May
training course. For the last 3 years we've had 20 people sign up for this class, where we take
people who are novice runners or no running at all in their history, and put them through a
training course so they are able to finish a 5K race. And one of my fitness instructors, Joann
Killian is just does a wonderful job with that program and we're happy to have her conclude that
for the third year. And amazingly I've lost a staff member off the rec center. Can you believe it?
Hoffman: Somebody left.
Marek: ...It's been remarkably stable out there, but Jon Effertz did leave the rec center and found
a job in his career field. Closer to his career field and so we sent him off with good wishes. He
still shows up for basketball at lunchtime so he didn't go very far. And in addition to what's
included in my update, a very serious recent event did occur at the rec center. June 21st at 5:30
a.m. the recreation center and Bluff Creek Elementary School was struck by lightning. And so I
just kind of wanted to recap for you some of the damage that was incurred. The exterior handicap
assist doors were blown out. 4 fire alarm pulls...were blown out. Our security system was blown
out. Our phones and computer lines were down for about 48 hours. Our cable service is still not
working. And we have two exercise bikes that were blown their control panel off of them. This
is just what we've found so far. As we go through and try to use some of these things, we expect
we'll probably find a few more items. With the exception of the exercise bikes, everything else
should be fixed yet this week. The only expense to the city is with regard to the Rick Rice's time
in addressing the phone and computer issues. I've got a request out for pricing on fixing the
exercise bikes but I presume that will probably be a little over a thousand dollars. To get those
operational again.
Hoffman: City Hall was hit the same morning and it took out a variety of computer components.
All protected by lightning protection but the intensity of those just overwhelmed it.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Marek: That's all that's been happening at the Rec Center.
Hoffman: You guys remember that morning?
Franks: Yes. I heard that one. I thought it was right in my back yard. That must have been the
one that hit City Hall.
Marek: Jon was just about ready to open the doors when the lightning hit.
Franks: Now are you guys all going to go out and buy lottery tickets because the odds are about
the same, right?
Marek: We're in a tough spot because shortly after lightning struck and the power went out in the
building, the fire alarms went off and our security alarms went off. Both of those systems are run
by the computer.., so the trucks were out.
Hoffman: Dale showed up about then.
Marek: We didn't know until 9:00 that anything...
Franks: Any questions for Susan?
O' Shea: I have one. Do you do, this number 5 sounds real interesting. Do you ever do that for
the Dave Huffman Run? Where you do a training like that? Do you already do that?
Marek: No we haven't.
O'Shea: Would that be a good idea?
Marek: It would be if I had an instructor who could do it during that timeframe. What we're
dealing with during, the program runs 6 weeks prior to the race date, which is a lot easier to do in
March and April when the weather's a little cooler, than say the whole month of August into
September. It's primarily a heat issue at that time, as well as instructor... It would be nice.
O'Shea: You'd probably get the commissioners back...
Hoffman: Anybody can gut out 5K.
Franks: Alright, thanks.
SENIOR CENTER REPORT.
Wickenhauser: Good evening, and many of you who don't know me. I know there's a few new
members. I'm Kara Wickenhauser and I run the senior center. I want to welcome you all to the
commission, new members.
Hoffman: And Kara's here twice a year.
Wickenhauser: Twice a year, yep. Winter and during the summer. The senior center just
completed celebrating some activities for the month of May, for Older Americans Month. We
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
held several special activities that honored that theme throughout the month. We had a Lake Ann
picnic out at Lake Ann. Entertainment. We had a guest speaker on investments. We had special
concerts put on by our Chan-o-laires at the recreation center. Two performances there for the
elementary students there. We had also a performance at the Centennial Hills for the residents in
town. We had a bake sale in conjunction with the Friends of the Library. There was a card
tournament for 500, Hand & Foot and Bridge. We had a golfing tourney out at Red Oaks in
Mound. And we also had a fishing contest on Lake Minnewashta which was kind of fun. I had
an opportunity to go out there...really good time. All these things were well received. Next year
they thought we should really cut down the activities because there was too many. Too
overwhelming. Or consolidate it within a few weeks so we're considering doing that, but
otherwise we think people really enjoyed the activities. Other than the special activities that we
offer throughout the month of May, we continued to offer our monthly one day outing, extended
trips, defensive driving class...foot care clinic every month...activities throughout the summer
that include Bridge, women and men's club book club. Wood carving. We're up to 19 or 20
people, and that group is really booming. We have a bingo group. Golfing group. It's been kind
of iffy this year. It's been kind of rainy and wet and so there's been some weeks when they
haven't been meeting ...... wrap up in June and they're going to resume back in September. I
didn't include a list of their entertaining that they did this last year. They've been doing an
excellent, they're under the direction of...she's been doing an outstanding job. Currently I'm just
working on fall programming with a committee that's set up with the Chaska Park and Rec.
We're working to partner with Chaska and...Waconia and Victoria Park and Rec and so it's kind
of neat connection. We all take a turn offering a program once a month and then we have pick-up
sites within our community. It's kind of a nice way to lessen our cancellation of trips so it's
really a neat connection we have going there. I'm still...programs with Eden Prairie 3 times a
year. Some of the new programs that are up and coming. I have an instrumental group that's
been meeting every Friday they've been trying to meet. We have 4 saxophones. They get
together to play for fun. I've had a couple new calls this week. I don't know what they played
but I'm hoping something other than... We're hoping for another wind wood, I don't know we'll
see but they're really, they play for fun. They'd like to maybe kind of hook up with the Chan-o-
laires and so some singing music formation and they do like to entertain at some point. I think
their biggest struggle right now...some people just want to play polka and waltzes and
their...likes classical, jazz so I with...get me to come out of retirement with my saxophone and I
keep declining but he's working hard to get me there so. We also have...fall at the rec center.
On October 25th and we're working in coordination with Beth Hoiseth, the Crime Specialist for
the City. Sergeant Potts will...Chanhassen Fire Department, the Victoria Fire Department and
the Victoria Senior Center and so we're hoping for that to be really good. Some of the topics will
include scams, fire safety, con intervention, crime prevention, 911...medical emergency services.
They'll have a luncheon and Beth has a thing so we're hoping that we'll turn up, well we do have
solicitations out with the Lions and the Legion for some funding so we're waiting to hear on that
yet. We'd like to keep the cost down to about 5 a person so that's up and coming. We have open
house on July 3rd. We have our l0th year anniversary this year since the senior center's been open
and we're taking lemonade and a magician show. And parking has been an issue for us in the
senior center but it's been going surprisingly smooth. There's been a few problems today where
someone parked and the library didn't...how to get to the senior center but other than that, people
appreciate the city blocking off space for them and accommodating them so actually some people
have said it's been easier to use the upstairs...actually go up the ramp from the front entering so
we've been pleasantly pleased with that. Any questions?
Franks: Thanks Kara. Thank you.
Hoffman: What else do you do in your 20 hours?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Spizale: I've got one question.
Wickenhauser: Yes.
Spizale: How old do you have to be to be a senior? 55 or is?
Wickenhauser: 50-55. 60. I've got very few, I think the average age is, I'm going to say 65 or
70. I think if we did more evening programming we maybe would attract more of the working
senior. It's hard to say. I'd like to eventually do some more of that.
Hoffman: No discrimination. If you feel like you want to come up.
Wickenhauser: Yes, anyone can come. But generally that's how old.
Spizale: Show my AARP card.
Wickenhauser: For defensive driving they were just talking, they're going to try to lower it to 50
for you to take the different classes, so there you go.
Spizale: Okay, thanks.
Franks: Any other questions or comments for Kara? Great, thanks. Wow.
PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
Gregory: Good evening. I'd like to welcome all the new commission members, and for those of
you who don't know me, my name is Dale Gregory. I am Park Superintendent for the City.
Springtime is.
Hoffman: Tell them how long you've worked here.
Gregory: 31-32 years. Springtime is always our very bUsy time for park maintenance staff.
Everything seems to be coming at the same time. Grass, mowing, ballfields, soccer fields, you
name it. Anything Jerry and those guys can think of and that comes at the same time. We try to
get our weed spraying done right away in the spring, and also our fertilizing. We get that going.
This year with the weather we had, we did have a little bit of trouble. We had a lot of wind in the
spring. We did have quite a bit of rain in the spring right away so fertilizing, we were able to get
that in. Spraying, we were only able to get Lake Ann, Lake Susan and some of the, we got all the
schools completely sprayed. We did get a few of the small parks and that but there was just too
much going on and that for the staff I had. With that then we didn't have any of our seasonal help
yet so we were really kind of pushed there and have to get things done. One thing we are looking
at this year, and that is possibly getting into the fall spraying and do it in the fall and try to get the
stuff that we missed now and hopefully not have to do so much in the spring so we're doing, I do
it at home. It works real well so we're going to give that a try and see if that works and see if
we've got more time. This summer, or this spring and that we were really pushed and that. We
actually put the full time guys on 10 hour days for 2 weeks just to try to keep up with things and it
seemed to work pretty good. I do have 15 seasonals that I get through the summer. Out of those,
5 of them are senior citizens and they have really been a big help to us. They run all of our big
mowers so they were doing a lot of our mowing for us this spring so if it wouldn't be for those
guys, we'd really have been behind. So my hats go off to those guys to come in and, like I say,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
even in bad weather or what, they were out there and they were mowing. They're dedicated. I' ve
got to give them credit for that. The Lake Ann road was finished this year. We had some
problems with that last year with the building and that, it never did get completed so this year that
got completed. We currently have the restoration to do along side of the road going in. Our
intention was to have that done before the 4th so everything would look good. The rains we've
had in the past 2 weeks and that, it's just not going to happen. We just can't get in there. It's too
wet and we wanted to have it done but it's not going to happen. So as soon as it dries up we will
get in there. We'll get that finished and get that whole thing all completed. Downtown crew,
they've been just as busy as we have and that. They only had 2 guys working down there this
whole spring. They try to take care of as much of the spraying as they can. They are pretty much
all done spraying. All done weed whipping and fertilizing downtown. Right now they've got a
full compliment of crew downtown. They are constantly working trying to get everything to look
good for the 4th of July. For the parade route and everything downtown, .they're really working
on that so. We also made a real attempt this year at with the library going in, we wanted to save
as many of those trees as we possibly could. We had 35 to 40 trees marked, and we were only
able to move about 10 because of all the utilities, fiber optics, and all that sort of stuff so we were
not able to move everything we wanted to. So those, the ones we were able to we did get moved
out into neighboring parks and that stuff so we are, they were saved what we could save. Other
than that, that's pretty much what's happening for this spring. If anybody has any questions.
Stolar: Quick, with my first City Council meeting and they were talking about the City Center
Commons and stuff going on there and one of my concerns I mentioned to Todd was, you know
can we do something to save the trees. The fact that you saved 10, thank you.
Gregory: Well like I say, when we originally looked at the plan, I mean we were hoping for a lot
more than that. We had gone out. We had marked all of these trees, and I met with all the
utilities up there. They went out and marked them, by the time they were done, there was only 10
we could really pull out and then the ones down main street were the ones I really wanted to save.
They were nice trees and those lindens and that, and it just didn't happen so. But we tried.
Stolar: And you got 10 so.
Franks: Dale just one thing for 4th of July, Todd too. Some year I think we talked about after the
fireworks display on the 4th, of having the frontage road out of Lake Ann be almost a one way.
Hoffman: It will be both. Highway 5 will open this week.
Franks: It will? So they'll be able to go both directions out of the park, okay.
Hoffman: Carver County Deputies will stop traffic on the frontage road and allow traffic to go
both ways, east and west out of Lake Ann Park.
Franks: Perfect. Great, thanks.
Gregory: ...one of the problems they were having, or did have. They wanted to open last Friday
already but they were having trouble with power to the semaphores and also they wanted I think
crosswalks and everything. They had to do the painting and everything. They had to have the
road dry for 24 hours because they can actually do the striping. But it sounds like they're pretty
much ready to open as soon as they can.
Franks: Alright, I think the parks look great.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: Chair Franks, before we move on. I want to publicly acknowledge these 4 individuals
in front of the commission. These are the people that make the department operate on a day to
day basis. They make my job a pleasure and they're wonderful, committed employees and it's
great that they stop down and keep in touch with the commission and I appreciate that they do
that. A few things on Dale's crew. They maintain the downtown, 30 miles of trails within the
community, 34 parks within the community and then something you don't think about is miles
and miles of boulevard around Powers Boulevard and the frontage road and those different types
of areas. He does that with 7 full time people, but then 2 of those are committed solely to the
downtown, so now you have 5 individuals, including Dale himself, so now you're talking about 4
individuals. Full time status to do that work. In the summer, one of those, the park foreman by
the name so Dean Schmieg is committed to managing the work of 15 seasonal employees, which
takes up his entire schedule so now you're down to 3 people to complete the other tasks in our
park system. The majority of calls or the highest percentage of calls I get from citizens are about
park maintenance and so we talk about that a great deal. Dale and I and it's our philosophy that if
we own, we want to maintain it to a level that meets people's expectations. But that can be very
difficult on a public agency. We're probably staff far less than 50 percent of what say an
Arboretum or a private amenity with private facilities, private organization would be, but these
guys pull off about 90 percent of what they need to get done and 50 percent staff so very proud of
that. Proud of what Susan does at the Rec Center. What Kara does with 20 hours at the senior
center is absolutely amazing. Remarkable and Jerry, we call him, or I call him my right hand
man. He sits right next to me. Has done that for 12 years and I couldn't make it without him so'
again I just want to acknowledge all that they do for the city. They're a wonderful department.
Franks: Thank you Todd. It's all true. Thank all of you.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
2002-2007 PARK ACOUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PROGRAM, CIP.
Hoffman: Thank you Chair Franks, members of the commission. The rest of you are free to stay
and listen, or to take off and rejoin your families as you see fit.
Franks: Oh Todd, if I could back up one thing. Question for you Dale. How are the new trash
receptacles working out?
Gregory: They're working well.
Franks: Good.
Hoffman: Just remind them to put the covers on securely when they put them back. That's the
only thing I noticed. Those covers are sometimes tough to get back on. Our seasonal employees
just say the heck with it.
Franks: Are we thinking about sticking with this variety?
Hoffman: We purchased them for 2 years. We can purchase more next year and we have the
entire system covered.
Gregory: ...so we will be trying that this year when the bees and the wasps start getting bad.
I've already got a product we're going to be trying.., and they say it works real well, so maybe
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
we can try to eliminate some of the complaints on the bee part of there too. The concession
buildings and the park buildings...give it a whirl. If it works, we'll stay with it.
Franks: Thank you. Alright Todd, thanks.
Hoffman: So tonight we're going to continue with our work session and really open it up to talk
about what you as commissioners feel is important in the area of capital improvements in our
park system. You're all familiar with how the parks and other park systems around the
metropolitan area, in your hometown where you grew up. Where you travel and what we want to
discuss as a group is, in our system one amenity will create...best return on our investment so we
have a park system of 34 parks. A nice mix of community and neighborhood parks. Rather than
use them all, they tend to use the community parks more often, they have a very high affinity for
the neighborhood parks because it's what is down the street. It's what they, when somebody says
where do you live, I live near this park...what's there and so we want to make those areas, take
our money and make them better. I provided a sheet, which is simply an inventory of the items
and estimated cost of all the items which are displayed on our park, current park master plans.
But I want to caution you that these park master plans are simply a document primarily from, a
majority of them are 8 or 10 years old and so as you want to change the inventory list, you just
change...the park master plan and we update this and you add these other amenities. All these
we're working towards a recommendation to the City Council. We have some financial data the
commission's been asking for showing that primarily we've been over a half million dollars in
revenues and park and trail dedication fees in the past 5 years. 4 years and so the revenues have
been coming in nicely. The current fund balance is $1.85 million. Of course this year, huge
projects being completed. Highway 101 north, Highway 101 south. That fund will go down by
somewhere in the vicinity of a million or a million 2 so we're talking about having a much lower
reserve balance, fund reserve balance at the beginning of 2003. You all received Dave's
comments. Dave had some, he's traveling to LA but he had some comments for the commission
and I'm going to allow Chair Franks to go through the conversation with the commission. I'll be
glad to answer any questions, and this is the first step. We can identify amenities which you feel
are a value, and then we'll start plugging those into a spread sheet and start attacking it from a
financial standpoint at your next meeting. So right now we're brainstorming. We're coming up
with the best of all situations.
Franks: Thanks Todd. Bring this back to the commission. A simple way to go through the
exercise maybe we'd just go to the page where it starts with Bandimere Park on the handout in
the packet and that lists amenities in the master plan. And maybe just begin to take a look at
amenity by amenity. What we are interested in and what we are not, and then also to add any
additions that anybody's come up with.
Stolar: Todd, I sent you those materials with some of the criteria and all. Is that something we
look at later as we start prioritizing later? This is just a brainstorm of what do we want in
general?
Hoffman: Correct. I have that. Thank you for sending that. If that applies at a future time I'll
just come up with those criteria and we'll start plugging them in so it begins to work into what
we're doing here. This is no time to be shy. Go ahead and speak your mind and if there's, we're
talking big numbers and big projects but you have to say if you like it or don't like it or if we're
missing something because that's the way this exercise is going to be most effective.
Franks: Great. Well let' s just start with Bandimere Park then. First thing on the top of the list is
the silo restoration. Did everybody get Dave's email?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: Dave didn't like it.
Franks: What I liked from his email though was, him actually going out and getting some of the
comments from the neighbors that have to look at it each day. We have to look at it every time
we drive by, but they're looking at it all the time so.
O'Shea: Is the silo on the master plan here?
Franks: The silo is right there.
Hoffman: Yep .... shelter rest stop.
Stolar: On this map, the things that are listed here are all possible master plan items, but not all
are listed here though right?
Hoffman: Should be. Pretty darn close.
Stolar: Well the trails for example aren't, right?
Hoffman: Trails are in.
Franks: Trails are in.
Stolar: Oh okay. How do you distinguish those that are in and those that should be? It's just
whatever's here is what's left to do?
Hoffman: You bet.
Stolar: Okay.
Hoffman: Up here. This is the distinguisher.
Franks: You know we heard what was it, at the last meeting that there's nothing unsafe or
structurally problematic about the silo the way it is.
Hoffman: No. If we want to leave it like that for another 10 or 15 years we could probably just
readdress how we close the stairway to it. The stair well to it to make that more permanent. It's
in wood right now...absolutely take it out and make that a metal enclosure. And have some kind
of an inspection on the facility to make sure it's not falling down. The thing that's going to go
first probably is the roof. It will continue to rust and...infiltrate that so...
Franks: And the other question I had too on Bandimere, Todd for you, the Phase II playground
equipment you have here is $60,000 on this sheet but I'm looking at my old CIP for 2004, it
looked like we had it out for $40,000.
Hoffman: I increased it.
Franks: Okay. We have a surfacing material out there now which is a poured in place rubber,
which will cost $20,000 or $25,000 of that 60. That' s my reason for the increase. Now that
we've set the standard, I can't put pea gravel at Bandimere.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Just going along with the Phase II playground equipment, in a number of the parks we're
all looking at developing with Phase II the playground equipment. I think a topic for discussion
for us would be the investment that we put into that, when playground equipment already exists,
and the return from that. And where we might apply those dollars someplace else within the
system. Neighbors always talk about, and I would probably be one of them, that residents around
your neighborhood park, you want the playground equipment. You want it, you want it, you want
it. But you drive by a lot of the neighborhood parks at any particular time and the use is, you
know sporadic at some. Very, very little at others and at times it can be used, so when you look
at 40 to 60,000 for Phase II, what might we want to do with that as well and maybe delay
implementing some of these playgrounds and Phase II' s until the pressure from the
neighborhoods is greater.
Stolar: Is there a difference between a community park and a neighborhood park, as far as
utilization now? Of the playground equipment.
Hoffman: There can be. Bandimere and Lake Ann, those all see high uses, especially during
game time because there's siblings around them. But then there's other times when they're just
empty because no activity's taking place and the neighborhoods tend to see more of just the
casual activity during the week nights. The other thing to remember is there, we distinguish
between Phase I and Phase II by age. So CPSC, Consumer Product Safety Commission, ASPN,
those standards mandate that you have two separate play areas. One for age 2 to 5 and one for
age 6 to 10 or 6 to 12, so now we separate these things for Phase I. The neighborhood generally
picks and most the times they pick the older aged groups, so that one goes in and then if we do do
a Phase II, it's for the younger kids. The age 2 through 5. You have to have physical separation
between those two to meet federal regulations.
Franks: Have you been receiving comments about Phase II playground installations throughout
the neighborhood park system?
Hoffman: Now as much as we did 5 or 10, 5 or 7 years ago.
Franks: And what do you attribute that to, do you think?
Hoffman: Aging of the kids. Aging of the neighborhoods and the fact that most parks have
something and they just have not been, for a while there they screamed very loud when they
didn't have their first set of playground equipment and then some came back and said you know,
it's over run with kids. We need our Phase II, and we just have not been receiving that at the
same level of correspondence with the neighborhoods as of late.
O'Shea: And Phase II is of which age then?
Hoffman: 2 to 5. 2 to 5, the little guys. Toddlers.
Stolar: I guess going along with what you're saying though, I would think that, if we do make a
judgment there, I would lean towards the community parks providing the alternative and not
doing this in every neighborhood park to your point, unless we hear the clamorings from a
particular neighborhood. Maybe their demographics change or whatever, that they can support it
for a while but in the community park it'd be nice to have the alternatives. So for Bandimere,
being the community park, I would think we'd still want it on the list. Again I'm not prioritizing,
just brainstorming. Keep it on the list.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: That's good thinking. Do those community parks first. Did you receive my little
correspondence back to Dave today explaining tennis courts? We jumped from playgrounds to
tennis courts. Tennis courts were on every park master plan and starting to put those in, and the
commission 10 to 15 years ago said hang on a second. Tennis' popularity is starting to slide. It's
a very physical, labor intensive, cost intensive fixture so they took them out in many
neighborhoods...local tennis people again did not appreciate that but they stuck to their guns and
they said no, we're going to put these in banks of 4 courts in community parks. So Bandimere
does, on the plan there tennis court is identified as a single court adjacent to a basketball hard
court, but it's location is terrible as far as parking and access to a tennis court. So I'm not sure
that it would ever be one of those things that we would want to invest our time or money in,
because it simply is not very accessible. But there is space available for it. It's just in back of
ballfield number 3. We have a four bank of tennis courts at the rec center. Four bank at Chan
Elementary. Twin set at South Lotus. Twin set at North Lotus, and then the question came from
David on Roundhouse. Is that a good investment at Roundhouse, and again my response was, the
commission at that time talked about Roundhouse or West Minnewashta...option on the park
master plan, and I'm not sure if it will ever be built, but I think it's in keeping with kind of that
thinking that was set up 10 years ago. Bandimere's the toughest spot. Just physically.'
Geographically in that location.
Franks: I just don't see, and maybe I'm driving by at the wrong time but I'm not seeing our
existing tennis courts getting a lot of heavy use.
Hoffman: They're used at the community level for athletics and so high schools utilize the courts
which is good. The rec center, student...I mean it gets' utilized.
Marek: Every morning we've got somebody there.
Hoffman: Yeah, it's being used.
Marek: Yeah, it's being used in the moming for lessons and the high school and junior high also.
Middle school.
Hoffman: It's a good plan the way they're built. By putting them at community sites. Lake Ann
gets very little use.
Gregory: Lake Susan gets quite a bit.
Hoffman: Yeah, the other courts are there... It's a convenience factor.
Franks: What makes, I was going to say, what makes those work I think is you can drive right up
to the court and park and get out. And the lights too I think are also a big factor.
Marek: You can park close enough to leave your stereo on in your car.
Franks: Taking that into consideration, it just really doesn't appear that the tennis for sure in
Bandimere really works because it doesn't really fit that location criteria in a way where it's
going to get use, I don't think anyway. The other thing Todd on Bandimere where you have the
hard court on the map, is that where the Phase II play area.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: It's in the same location. You would need to put in a hard court and then Phase II
playground right in that general vicinity, and we're starting to run out of room so, I'm not sure a
hard court would take precedence over the Phase II playground equipment.
Stolar: What is the hard court for?
Hoffman: Hop scotch, four square, those kind of activities.
Franks: Generally speaking to the other question I had, and this comes up at Bandimere too, is
the sand volleyball courts. And I'm just wondering if that's something that's gone the way of the
90's or if those in these kinds of locations are going to continue to be used.
Hoffman: At the beach they get used. Any other parks we really see very.
Gregory: Very little.
Franks: Even the quality courts that we have at Lake Susan, ! mean those are pretty nice sand
volleyball courts. Are those?
Ruegemer: Picnics have a lot of use as well but general type of pick-up kind of volleyball, no.
There's too many leagues out there at Fletcher's and other types of places that it's kind of...
Hoffman: It's cheap. If somebody really wants it, they can stick it just about anywhere.
Gregory: The only thing is gets to be a maintenance problem. We had one...in neighborhood
parks, they just don't get used. We can't get the weeds out of them and all that. They're more of
a pain than they are...
Hoffman: They cost us $500 a year to maintain them.
Franks: And you've got to mow around them.
Gregory: Well the weeds inside...makes it tough.
Franks: Now about the ballfield lighting. What's the status on that?
Hoffman: Well people always ask. Is there going to be lighting at Bandimere and we say yes.
It's in the deeds for the Lundgren properties that there's a disclosure that those fields, those
soccer fields will have lights, and I don't think it needs to happen in the near future. But at some
point this city will run out of land and the kids will keep coming and they'll want the parents and
these people sitting in the audience will want access to more fields and...so you have that ability
here.
Spizale: Lights are expensive.
Franks: Yes they are.
Spizale: Six lights for $500.
Hoffman: Six fields. It's about.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Spizale: Oh 6 fields?
Hoffman: 6 fields. There will be a lot of light standards.
Spizale: That makes more sense.
Stolar: Is there any way with regard to the ballfield lighting, as we do the extension to use the
popularity and utilization to fund these? So for example, putting some reserve set aside from an
entrance fee for an activity to go strictly to the lights? Don't know if we have that capability.
Hoffman: There aren't any entry fees.
Stolar: Clubs don't pay any rentals or anything like that? Okay.
Hoffman: The one way to do it is to...is to go with the cell towers and we could take a look at
that. Have a cell tower at Bandimere with the siren...
Ruegemer: Have the soccer.
Hoffman: Install new lighting with the, put up a cell tower as a part of that, and Bandimere's a
good location for it so that might be an option.
Franks: Were one of you were suggesting something like an assessment for like a, as far as the
activity fees that the participants pay, that the city have like a 50 cent assessment or something
like that for participants and we collect that and put that into a fund for lighting of our fields. Is
that?
Stolar: Well I was thinking if they were paying a rental fee more to set aside than anything else.
But since we don't pay a fee, there's nothing to set aside. And that would just allow those that
use it to pay for it and get utilization out of it.
Atkins: Will there be a fee for using the picnic shelter there when it's there?
Hoffman: For rentals? Sure. The picnic shelter is generally is thought of as a place for public
restrooms, gathering point for, we have a lot of tournaments and those type of activities and you
need just a central location so that is known as the location there. It's inbetween the soccer
greens and the other ballfields, softball, baseball fields.
Atkins: What is a ballfield shelter?
Hoffman: A ballfield shelter will go in with a concession space would go in the center. The
wheel of the ballfields. They've got these baseball fields and again a concession central location
for, during tournaments, concession sales. Storage. Someplace you can get out of the weather.
Those type of things.
Atkins: So it's a concessions stand too?
Hoffman: Yeah. There's a location that's been designated there in the center wheel for some
type of building in the future. The other larger building, which is restroom shelter with, it's stated
here with an ann structure that, there's already the sewer and the water, both sewer and water has
been stubbed out to that location. So those utilities are in place.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Well I'd like to see, now no jokes about my liking big ticket items but you know putting
in a park shelter with the restrooms certainly makes Bandimere a prime location for a real solid
tournament play because it provides that kind of base. I'd love to use this park utilized in that
way. Kind of on the scale that we spent so much time creating it for. The similar is also the park
shelter at City Center Park as well. My thinking too is, not that we want to tackle them all at once
but based on the financial information you gave us, while it appears our ability to collect revenues
is still fairly solid, that we really consider going forward with some of these substantial capital
projects while we really have an ability to utilize some of the money coming in to do those.
Hoffman: Please remember as you're going through these, that these are only the parks. Any
trail capital plans that are not, we're not talking about at this time. But in that same breath the
city is, has done very well with trail development in the half a dozen years and there are no large
glaring trail improvements that we see in the immediate horizon. There are some small connector
pieces and there are some larger projects which people would like to see happen. Lyman
Boulevard, east and west. What are some of the other ones? Highway 41, north to south. But
those are slated to occur with road improvements. Lyman Boulevard upgrade and State Highway
41 upgrades so, that's really the trail, we've been pretty blessed within the last...
Franks: So if we can kind of move onto some of the other stuff, but just my personal suggestion
at Bandimere was really look at two projects. In a sense. One would be getting in that Phase II
playground equipment, and then also looking at developing the park shelter.
Stolar: Would we see a valid with pay back...center also to go along with the theme?
Hoffman: It's a service. The cost to put it in and then it's going to be operated by the
associations. It would not be operated by the city and so when they sponsor a tournament they
would sponsor a concessions to help pay off their tournament costs. The city would take a
percentage out of that, but we will never make the money back that we would invest in the
building.
Stolar: Okay.
Franks: I know we had talked about at one point in having one of those concession areas with
machines and the steel roll down door. I don't know, would that be included, something like that
in the park shelter that we talked about building or, kind of a self service concession area.
Hoffman: That'd be a discussion at that time. To go along with that tournament, what makes the
tournament, or what makes it a nice event is when you have people selling concessions and it's
full service. You can go there, and these tournaments, they last all day so you have restrooms.
Someplace to get out of the sun. Someplace to get something to eat, and so those are the things
that people are looking for when they go to a nice facility.
Atkins: And the lights aren't necessarily needed to attract tournaments. Okay.
Hoffman: No.
Franks: Alright let's just, if that's enough on that. Let's move on down. Really the half court
basketball on Bandimere Heights. You know it's a hike up the hill but, if we do a hard, I just
didn't see the, if we do a hard court area in Bandimere Park, and then duplicate something fairly
similar down in Bandimere Heights, I don't know if we want to.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: One or the other.
Franks: One or the other is what I'm saying, right. Not necessarily both, but really one or the
other.
Hoffman: You can see it on the plan on the first sheet. There's a half court basketball.
Franks: The thing you can't really tell from this sheet though is the trail going down, is really
pretty steep. I mean it's a little hike up the hill.
Hoffman: Half court basketball, there's simply a way to introduce hard surface into a green space
which not only accommodates basketball but Big Wheels and all sorts of other things so it's a
nice addition to a neighborhood park setting.
Stolar: Where's that?
Franks: On Bandimere Park still.
Hoffman: Right on the...you can see the neighborhood. Bandimere Park is both a community
and a neighborhood park. The neighborhood park was here before the other park was bought,
right at this location. It was swallowed up by Bandimere Community Park, so we have two parks
in one. The community park and Bandimere Heights Park and that's showing a basketball court
right down in here. Down in the neighborhood. And then the park, the basketball court on top is
shown right here. Next to the tennis court.
Franks: I mean one or the other. Or maybe even go with the hard court area by the play area. I
mean I don't know if you want to combine them all but some kind of plan. I really think just one
of those 3 locations should go in. I don't know if we need, I really believe we don't need all 3 of
them.
Hoffman: Just a couple of the things listed on there to think about it...
Franks: It would help to be able to see it. Alright. Everything's I think pretty straight forward as
far as, unless anybody has any additions to Bluff Creek, . Carver Beach.
Hoffman: Just keep flipping plans.
Franks: I have one thing down at Chan Estates. You know what I'm going to say. I'd love to
have some off road access of some sort to that park, so at least it'd be identified as useable.
Hoffman: At Chan Estates.
Franks: Chan Estates. And I don't know whether a curb cut with a couple of parking spots off
Lake Drive. I mean something even as, well I know that's not simple because of the whole
permitting and stuff but.
Hoffman: Do you guys know where this one is? It's the tiny little outlot across from
McDonald's and it was a, what was it? A sewer.
Gregory: Sewer plant.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: Sewer plant and when they...the sewer plant, they handed it over to parks and there's a
playground and a half court basketball there today. A row of trees. A park sign, but yeah, you
can't park on Lake Drive. So we would have to create a parking lot.
Atkins: Is there parking for the park?
Franks: No.
Atkins: You can park on the street inside Chan Estates near it?
Franks: No. ·
Hoffman: You have to come off of, you have to walk from McDonald's or come in from the
neighborhood, and those are only formal access points.
Franks: Yeah, I can't imagine there'd be a tremendous amount of use at that park anyway from
anybody that's not aware of the trail from Chan Estates in but, if there'd be a way to get a spot or
two even just, you know off the street. I don't know if we can do that.
Hoffman: We can, they're going to want to have it so you can pull in, turn around and pull back
out. They won't do a curb cut there on Lake Drive and so, the problem has always been, we're
talking 40 or 50,000 dollars to contribute to this little neighborhood park. This little pocket park.
Franks: Okay. Chan Hills Park, unfortunately was put in before we had the great idea of putting
loop trails in parks.
Hoffman: Trail?
Franks: Yeah, loop trail. It was in the park itself. So I don't know if that's, do we ever have a lot
of extra asphalt to get rid of?. I think that might be a project to put in but maybe an in-house
project. I think for a neighborhood that's one that is used pretty well. The neighborhood's fairly
isolated.
Hoffman: Fairly good access to the park. Is anyone familiar with Cathcart Park and the
arrangements that we have there? Cathcart is in the far northwest corner of the city, and it's
owned by the City of Shorewood, but resides in Chanhassen. It was given to Shorewood by the
Church across the street for a park. Shorewood maintained it and invested in the capital
improvements over all these years, and then Chanhassen grew up around it and our citizens were
utilizing it. The people in Shorewood, the administrative people, the city people approached the
City of Chanhassen to take it over. The final arrangement was that Dale would maintain the
shrubs and trees and the grass in the summer, and Shorewood would continue to be responsible
for the capital improvements. I just want to make you aware of that special arrangement that we
have in that particular park.
Franks: Are we moving onto Chanhassen Nature Preserve? Todd, could you put up on the map,
just to orientate. Do you have like a large map, well maybe this will be good.
Hoffman: Trail map upstairs. The Chanhassen Nature Preserve is being assembled out of a 60
acre donation from Betty O' Shaughnessy and the general configuration is like this. So she
donated that 60 acres. She didn't want her name put on the park and so it was named Chanhassen
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Nature Preserve given to the park. There's also a concept of turning this into a memorial sites, so
it would be Chan Memorial Park. Really the only amenity is the trail loop system which is going
to be a very nice trail corridor around the exterior. The thought woUld be to put trail benches and
those type of things and create a...park setting. That was discussed a couple of years agoby the
commission. The other two pieces...are being acquired as a part of the development in this larger
Arboretum Industrial Park, so the city invested all of it's park dedication fees in acquiring this
land and then when these two lots are built, this lot fight here and this lot in this location, the
applicant from Chan Business Park, through the development contract with the city, is
responsible for completing the trail. So this trail segment and this trail segment will be built at
the time that these two lots are developed, and that's fairly imminent now with the construction of
the Century Boulevard interchange. So Century will come in and these two lots will then be
highly desirable lots with Highway 5 with the new stop light...this trail system will be completed,
and we'll have, start to get some very nice exposure to what is going to be the largest open space
preserve within the City of Chanhassen that is...owned by the City. It's over 100 acres. Larger
than Lake Ann Park, and larger, much larger than the Fox acquisition which was recently made in
southern Chanhassen. And the trail, I can't recall the last time. It was about a mile loop going
around the entire area of Chan Beach Preserve so. As far as capital improvements, the one area
that we would be looking at is right at this location which is a parking lot for a trail head. And so
we have one neighborhood to the south, and the neighborhood just right off the park boundary
here off of 5 and Galpin, and then a neighborhood off of the east that can utilize this traiI just
from their homes, but we feel that a local or regional draw for people who want to drive, park and
then take advantage of this one mile beautiful walk and so we have the, really the obligation as a
commission and the city to provide that trail head and I don't believe we have that listed. Yeah,
it's listed there.
Franks: What's the difference though between the parking lot and trail head?
Hoffman: One and the same. Trail head would have a gazebo, seating. A kiosk so if you wanted
to get out of your car, then you have a place to gather under a shelter or have a picnic lunch,
something like that so a trail head location and then go off on your walk. Two separate concepts.
Spizale: How many parking spaces?
Hoffman: Probably about 15 to 20. It's a fairly small area if you drive down Coulter Boulevard
and then we located this, it's on a high point right down there, so 20 some parking spaces
probably.
Spizale: You know it's a shame that, if that's going to be developed with some type of
development, the parking lot for the business that was there couldn't be used in coalition with that
business.
Hoffman: This one primarily.
Spizale: Somebody is going to be building a parking lot like they have across the street.
Hoffman: Something we can discuss with the developer. They're always hesitant when you
bring the public into a private setting. This building will be a very nice, probably office building.
Obviously they'll have parking there and then you would get into the conversation of
compensation so we're offering parking at a private facility for public use. We want to discuss
that. Find out the nature of the business, but I can guarantee you a facility like Rosemount would
not want public parking in their facility for security reasons so, but it's a good idea.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Stolar: It's designated corporate industrial setting?
Hoffman: Yeah. Corporate industrial office. It's a nice lot. If you've been out there, this is the
nicest property. Nicest lot here. So it's a nice facility. Something different from what you
traditionally see in the neighborhood or community park settings, and actually in surveys, this is
what people ask for. Once this thing is developed and available to the public and people start to
discover that they can go out and take their family, friends, their dog for a one mile loop around a
very attractive nature preserve which provides wetland habitat, upland habitat, over story oaks,
prairie type, prairie looking habitat, it's going to be a very desirable amenity.
Stolar: What trail's already in them already? The C and D areas?
Hoffman: C and D trails are in. The trail is in the back side of what is called Trotter's and then
the trail comes all the way up this side, so it's about halfway. And we knew if we didn't put
those in when those homes went in, that would never happen. In fact one of the neighbors down
in the area...came in the other day and said, when is that trail, anything going to happen or can
we take it out.
Atkins: Todd, how many acres is the commercial lot? The desirable one.
Hoffman: This lot, oh I'm going to guess right around 5.
Atkins: Would that be a site that potentially could be for the community center?
Hoffman: Yes.
Atkins: Because then what you're saying, and to have a mile path for people to use that site.
Hoffman: It's been identified in the site research.
Stolar: And along those lines, the other thing we did in Eden Prairie was one area, the guy that
worked for the city to get it zoned for more of the entertainment type thing, the restaurants and all
of which case people can enjoy the scenery. There was no trail there but so people could actually
observe and it was the Pickle Parrot. Part of the idea of that was that whole wetland area there is
beautiful but how do we get people to enjoy it? So we try to zone around there so that it attracts
people who would want to do things and community center's a great idea. Along these lines.
Hoffman: This lot here has the availability for restaurant zoning.
Stolar: So it might be something later on we could at least give an opinion to the city and say, be
help to utilize this area then. And maybe allow us to use the parking.
Hoffman: This lot sits up very high and access down to the trail system is difficult. This is up on
a hill. This is down below with the trail down below...whereas this lot here is, in relatively close
proximity and it has a trail right in front of it that runs down into this location. And then as you
take a parking lot and you make a direct access to this trail, it starts to have some very good
access. It's an exciting project. We've just been in a waiting mode. Waiting for those lots to
develop because the city's development contract is binding that developer to build those trails.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: It just seems a little premature really to put in something like a trail head or a parking lot
into a system that's really not usable for that yet.
Hoffman: We'll just bump them out to 2004-2005.
Franks: Do that. Thanks. The other thing too when you look at the observation points, we might
want to consider too doing them in a staging process, unless that's not cost effective in any way
but really getting one in. Get people using the park. Have some understanding that they're really
using it and then maybe add in 2 and 3. Alright, great. Rec Center. One thing that I see as really
may be taking a serious look at BMX on one of the inline skating rinks.
Hoffman: That's a good idea.
O'Shea: And is there room to add any more cardiovascular equipment?
Franks: We're talking not inside the rec center but we're really talking about the park. Rec
Center park, but that's a good question. We're about maxed in our workout space right now. We
probably need some more space. But I think the idea of getting that, using that inline skating
rink, that's just had a great surface. Getting some use out of it and finding a good geographic
separation between the skaters and the bikers I think would be a nice way to get both of those in
the city. Without much conflict.
Hoffman: Good idea .... come up with a budget for the ramps and include that in a future
tabulation.
Franks: Anything else on the Chanhassen Recreation Center Park? Well then City Center Park.
Stolar: Didn't we talk about at the senior gardens, given what they're doing with some of the
commons areas, to maybe hold off on that to see how that goes and whether it meets the need.
O' Shea: Is the skate park considered in this park?
Hoffman: ...I agree with you.
O'Shea: And you know I know, I wasn't on the commission when you talked about this, and I
brought it up before but looking at trying to produce revenue is key, and I know it was originally
funded through tax dollars. I did some research on existing parks and from the middle of July to
October, by just charging a nominal fee in White Bear, they raised between $40,000 and $45,000
net, and then they're earmarking that money and they're hoping to dome the area and then they'd
have a year round program. That I thought possibly that might find out the feeling of the people
that live in Chanhassen, but I think more people don't use the park than do, even though it's our
most heavily used, that I think they'd rather see it not as a tax drain year after year. That maybe
we could at a future time look at how we could make that a revenue generating program and then
that money that's generated would go to improve a dome and I think they said their staffing, it's
one of the easiest program areas to staff. You know again I don't know from city to city if that
follows what they've experienced but I think that's when we're looking at funds being less and
less, that area I think we shouldn't just pass over. That we maybe should look at it a little closer
to see if that could be a generating, revenue generating area. Because I do think we really need to
continue to enhance that area. And also look at the problems with behavior out there too and how
can we control that and make it a state of the art park.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: I have in 2002 Todd, money was designated for the skate park.
Hoffman: Yes. Utilized it on fencing and the shelter and then we were going to attempt, or
wanted to add another ramp but the additional fencing enclosing it all the way around used up the
dollars and the landscaping. The stairway and the shelter.
Franks: So to, we're looking at what, about a $15,000 investment to buy equipment of
substance?
Hoffman: 15 to 20, and I think we're going to shift away from all wood and go to the newer
ramps which are metal and then they have the composite material, the plastic and the skate light
on the surface. Just for longevity. The skate park has proven itself, we might as well buy the
good stuff at this point.
Franks: Yeah. I like the idea of, boy you know if we, doming it. If we had that field house as a
part of any kind of rec center development and to set aside possible portions of that for year round
skating park use, since we have the equipment and it just sits underneath the snow during the
winter anyway, that would be an interesting use of that equipment. But part of my feeling on
revenue generation is if we're offering something that's special, which would be more I think
than what type of level.
Hoffman: Tier I.
Franks: Tier I. If we go above Tier I, then I think we're offering something that's above and
beyond just you know, walk up off the street recreation. We could consider.
Hoffman: Tier I is 3 feet and below. Tier II is the big stuff. The 9 foot ramps and hook and what
do you call it, underpass which is in Hopkins.
Franks: Is it something that we should continue to look at.
Hoffman: Maybe the discussions about charging and should it be built with park dedication
money, that discussion took place at the commission. In Chaska they said if you want to build
this, you're going to have to raise your own money. And a commission at the time felt very
strongly that no, we pay for playgrounds. We pay for ballfields. We pay for soccer fields. This
is a use which is targeting a section of our citizens that we've been ignoring. We're going to pay
for their park and we're going to build it for them and we're going to let them use it. So then to
say now we're going to charge those people is again, you know it's a philosophical thing. Well
then should we charge to use a ballfield or a soccer field? So it starts getting back into that. It
would be a great avenue. We've got it fenced. It's very easy to go ahead and make money there,
but it's that philosophical notion of now simply because we can, should we? Or should we again
allow that to be free to the public and you're going to make money out of non-resident people
right now, it' s probably half of the people that are not from Chanhassen that utilize that facility.
So that's a good way to cash revenue. A good way to look at it. But then the other kids that are
Chanhassen residents, should you go ahead and charge them for a facility where you generally
provide all other recreation facilities for kids.
O'Shea: One thing you could do though, this gets a little chippy, with that and I thought of that.
How can you get around that? If you domed it, you know took out a 10 year bond from the city,
you dome it, then you say to those people you get in free during the summer, but Chanhassen
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
residents but everybody else pays. That's just one way you could possibly avoid the
philosophical fight but.
Franks: I think it's something that we need to continue to look at and consider. It's an issue I
think that's in process as the city evolves and the needs for recreation and finances evolve too so,
but I think in the near term we really, as you're saying, need to continue to expand the facilities
there regardless of what we choose to do with looking at generating revenue.
Stolar: Mr. Chairman?
Franks: Yes.
Stolar: Quick question. Do we, I apologize. I probably will have to leave soon because I have
an early flight tomorrow morning. I did postpone mine until first thing in the morning, but I
know that there are a couple of other items that David had brought up, just high level. If we can
just plow through some of those and see if anyone has anything very specific that they want to
hit.
Franks: We can sure do that.
Hoffman: Do you have a copy of those? A copy of David's comments?
Franks: Out in my briefcase but not here.
Hoffman: I've got them.
Stolar: I think talked about Kerber Pond. Didn't think the signage was, thought that was a luxury.
Push it out. And I would agree.
Franks: I would agree as well.
Stolar: And I think in general we've made a statement that the sand volleyball courts in general
would be on a as requested basis.
Hoffman: He had a question about the Lake Ann Park road. Lake Ann Park road is in terrible
condition. It does not represent the city in a good light based upon the quality of that park that we
have in our city. The road just drags it down. Dave wanted to hold off until we just had this
conversation about the high school or community center, and that's a good thought, but half of
the park really cannot be utilized for those type of facilities unless you buy another Lake Ann
Park somewhere else in the city to replace it because those lands were purchased with federal
LAWCON dollars. So there's Lake Ann, the lake on the north side, and the...part of the south.
This portion of Lake Ann Park was all purchased with federal dollars. LAWCON grant money,
so you have access through this parcel of park which was purchased using just general city tax
dollars. Actually a referendum. This part you can use, it's wide open for community use or
change in the use. You could take out these ballfields and put in a community center. Take oUt
these ballfields and put them in as part of a high school, but if you want to utilize this plan, at
least how I understand it today, I do not believe a school or a community center would meet the
intent of the LAWCON legislation that was used to purchase the property. And this is the old
road needs replacement. It's 30 years old and it needs a full replacement or overlay.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Stolar: I guess to me, this is a fairly straight forward question and I thought the consensus here
was, that's not a use of park trail fees, but that we do believe, and I don't know how we want to
bring it up at a future meeting, that the city should fix it because it is our showcase park.
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: And I'd be willing to.
Hoffman: ...philosophy.
Stolar: Right, and I think I'd be willing to make some sort of statement in a future meeting,
maybe our next meeting, to that effect. Take it off our list as we've done, but make a statement to
the city that we believe that, like any other road that needs maintenance, this road needs
maintenance and it's one that's a showcase.
Hoffman: There's other items where the Kerber Pond Park, $10,000 for interpretative signs. My
reply was, we have about $100,000 worth of interpretative signage down the road at the
Arboretum. At the Arboretum, if people want interpretation they can go to the Arboretum. It
would be a nightmare for us to maintain and we do not have the expertise in-house to produce
interpretative signage so we would be out consulting for that. Roundhouse Park, he talked about
the round house. Again in it's park master plan has a hockey/in-line and then an ice rink all in the
one similar to North Lotus Park or the rec center or here at City Center, where you put hockey
boards up with asphalt and lights, so you can use it in summer and winter. We have not
experienced the summer use on those rinks that we thought we would see, and so David is talking
about that. Should we one, put in the hockey rink there? Should we two, put in asphalt for
summer use, and then put in lights? Again, the neighborhood is not knocking our doors down
and so I really don't think we need to program it because it's just on the park master plan but
nobody's asking for it at the present. And then he talked about the tennis courts at Roundhouse
and you've already had that conversation.
Stolar: And sand volleyball and playground Phase II, we talked about here...
Franks: We're like minded on a lot of these issues as far as how we want to develop these parks
out. Glenn, I know that you're pushed for time so if you want to run through anything more on
your list.
Stolar: No, I just wanted to confirm some of these statements that Dave said. I mean I guess
philosophically in summary right, I think Phase II playgrounds ought to be focused on the
community parks where it helps to enhance their utilization. Sand volleyball courts, and I'm a
huge sand volleyball court, volleyball player, but they aren't getting use and they may be going
by the wayside. Community park tennis courts, I think the same thing. As long as, or I'm sorry,
neighborhood park. Unless there's a demand for those that's specific to that neighborhood,
probably shouldn't be a part of the master plan, deferred indefinitely. I mean we've got to focus
because we don't have a lot of money. And Lake Ann Park, I just think the road there really
doesn't belong in this discussion.
Hoffman: And it's not.
Stolar: And it's not, it was taken off, but I do think we need to make a statement as the Parks and
Rec Commission about how that is a part of how this park looks and in the city's planning of road
repairs, that they should consider that.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: I would agree. For the purposes of getting through our CIP, I'd like to set that issue as a
separate issue and...
Stolar: Yes, absolutely.
Franks: Take it out of here now.
Stolar: ...future meeting, talk about it as a separate motion of recommendation. I think we said,
in our working session with the City Council we were going to maybe talk about it.
Franks: I think that'd be an excellent place to bring that up.
Hoffman: Do you guys have that on your calendar? I think it's September 30~h. Is the joint
meeting with the City Council. September 30~ I believe. That's the date that the council has set
up. Monday, September 30th, joint meeting with the City Council and Park and Rem Commission.
And you will be setting the discussion points for that meeting and we'll do that at your July
agenda. They generally have an hour with the commission and council that night. I'll just mark
that as one of the issues.
Franks: And Phase II in neighborhood parks, just to kind of go back a little bit, on a case by case
basis if the demand rises up for it.
Stolar: Yep, but I do supPort and I guess if we have to, and I know we aren't prioritizing here but
in the brainstorming I think if we see other things that help utilize community parks, that we think
are proactive, I would be in favor of those types of things. Whereas the...utilization, whereas the
neighborhood parks, responsive yeah. That's a good way to put it.
Franks: Great. Do you just want to take it from here too? Make sure we get all your cOmments
in about any of the other parks.
Stolar: Well the other ones, I mean and using those philosophies there's several of these that then
I think we keep pushing out. There's Sugarbush Park and Prairie Knoll, and again I'm assuming
these are all additional play areas.
Hoffman: Yep.
Stolar: Not that they don't have one and not that their's is in disrepair. So all of those, North
Lotus Lake, which is my neighborhood park, push sand volleyball courts out. Play on grass if we
need to.
Franks: And you can rent the volleyball nets from.
Stolar: Oh I have the nets, don't worry. I have all the equipment.
Franks: Alright.
Stolar: Thank you and I apologize for having to book out.
Hoffman: Where are you going tomorrow?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Stolar: Where am I going? Hartford.
Hoffman: Have a good flight.
Franks: Thank you Glenn.
Stolar: Thank you.
Hoffman: Thanks for making the accommodations for being here tonight. We appreciate that.
Franks: I'd just like to back up a little bit then to Herman Field Park. I don't really am not in
favor of any immediate improvements as far as facilities in that park at this point. Until we can
really come up with a solid plan of what we want to do with Herman Field.
Hoffman: It's been put on hold.
Franks: Way on hold, yep. And the overlook area on Kerber Pond Park.
Hoffman: Have you seen it?
Franks: No.
Hoffman: Kerber Pond Park.
Franks: I mean I' ve seen it on the drawing, but it' s hard for me to, and the point of that?
Hoffman: Same point as pulling off at, well just having access to it. You can park on the street,
but they don't feel comfortable.
Atkins: It's pretty dangerous.
Hoffman: Yeah, so this is like a wayside rest.
Franks: Well that was my thought. I thought well, you can park there.
Atkins: You don't want to get out of the car though.
Franks: Alright. If it was there, would people be pulling off accessing the trail do you think?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: Alright. The mowed grass trail at Pheasant Hill Park again, you know we're not doing
that now are we? We're not mowing that trail at Pheasant Hill.
Hoffman: Nope.
Franks: Is that the one that runs along where the high line? No, that's not.
Hoffman: This is like a nature trail. We've got to clear and grub it and clean it up.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: See those are the types of things that I see that we can add at later dates when we're
really improved out our parks to the max. And then really look, well what's the one more thing
we can add.
Hoffman: Or a Boy Scout project.
Franks: Or a Boy Scout project, sure.
Hoffman: Whoever comes in to do a community project.
Franks: Again, same thing hockey rinks, tennis court. We've talked about that already.
Roundhouse Park. The one thing that's not in here is the round house restoration but we're
hoping that the volunteer committee continues their work in that direction.
Hoffman: Yeah, it's presently a committed project.
Franks: And Lake Susan Park. The one thing that we might want to consider at some point in the
future is really making the kind of beach that's developed there a real beach. Between the trail
and the lake. From the canoe rack, I don't know, down...so that's something we might want to
take a look at sometime this summer too.
Hoffman: We can just do that.
Franks: We can do that just like that?
Hoffman: Just like that.
Franks: Just us cutting out the grass and putting the sand in, letting it wash out.
Hoffman: That's it.
Franks: That method.
Hoffman: Just a site visit and the park commission and you're there to see it happen and I'll
check with the wetland regulations which we own a mile of shoreline so we can develop it. Buy
ourselves a permit and do it.
Franks: It just seems that's the one piece that's missing from that park. It has everything else.
Boat, dock, shelter, play equipment, tennis courts, ballfields, everything except it's right there on
a lake and there's no usable beach.
Hoffman: ...my one hesitancy is it's kind of like inviting over the neighbors to, and you don't
have the house, the house doesn't fit the neighbors because quite frankly Lake Susan isn't always
fit for swimming. So you build in a nice beach and then you're inviting people to come to a
beach and the next thing you're going to hear is, why did they put that beach in at Lake Susan?
That water stinks and do something about the water or take the beach out.
Franks: Well we did do something about it though. We did our alum treatment and we're doing
our wetland and shoreline restorations.
Hoffman: We're working on it but Lake Susan will never be a Lake Ann. I swam there once.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Mostly what we're seeing I think are the kids going in, little bits here and there and
splashing around but.
Hoffman: Let's take a swim some night Rod. Check it out.
Franks: Out in the middle of the lake I will.
Hoffman: No. We have to, we need to walk in right out of the weeds. See how far the mud
squishes between our toes.
Franks: Well that's what we want to get rid of. And the warming house at Sunset Ridge I think
is off the map too. Off the map. So do you have all those comments?
Hoffman: Ido.
Franks: And do you want to take those and put them down on a projection?
Hoffman: Yep. A 5 year projection.
Franks: A 5 year projection for us.
Hoffman: And some staff recommendations and you'll...continue to move forward on it.
Franks: Alright, we didn't talk about all the things like trash receptacles and plantings and trees
and stuff like that so we'll just count on you to add those in.
FINAL DRAFT, CHANHASSEN COMMUNITY CENTER, REQUEST FOR
INFORMATION.
Hoffman: Included that for information only.
Franks: Appreciate that.
Hoffman: It was the organizations. The council did make a point of pulling this off a consent
agenda last night and adding in, I believe it was Glenn's comment about experience and so that
has been added in and once we obtain all the addresses, this will be mailed early part of next
week.
Franks: Thanks for your work on that Todd. You did a nice job of summarizing everything we
talked about.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Franks: Anybody have any comment regarding the administrative packet? One from me is Todd,
on the taking it to the streets, clean up Chanhassen. I missed the promotion for that.
Hoffman: Missed the promotion?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Yes.
Hoffman: It's coming up.
Franks: Oh, it's coming up. I know but obviously people are akeady signing up and getting
ready to go.
Hoffman: This is a project by Westwood and Dean Swanson came in to see me and it's during
the PGA when Westwood gets kicked out of the high school and then Westwood is meeting at
the soccer field at Instant Webb and Dean is coordinating this part of the project where his
church, he takes a dozen families and they go out and they clean up parks. We give them maps
and he's all set and ready to go so it's something that Westwood is doing. I'm not doing it.
They're doing it.
Franks: They're doing it, okay.
Hoffman: It's their project. And we had a second one from St. Hubert Church where Janelle, I
can't remember her last name. Hieckel is coordinating students and they're going to clean up 6
parks in the month of June and July and so again, give them park maps. Trash bags, a little letter
of thanks and out they're going to clean our parks and trails so.
Franks: And this happens, they're contacting you to get this set up?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: This is not something that you're promoting as a program?
Hoffman: No. We get this 3 to 4 times a year where community groups want to do volunteer
work and they contact us.
Franks: Great. I love hearing it. Alright, seeing no other comments on the administrative packet
is there a motion to adjourn?
Spizale moved, Atkins seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carried. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
40