1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 25, 2002.
Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Jack Spizale, Amy O'Shea, Glenn Stolar, and Paula
Atkins
MEMBERS ABSENT: Tom Kelly and Dave Happe
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent; Susan Marek, Recreation Center Manager; Kara Wickenhauser, Senior center
Coordinator; and Dale Gregory, Parks Superintendent.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Jerry Ruegemer asked that Greg Blaufuss was present to talk to
the commission regarding a Frank Scott Memorial.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Hoffman: City Council awarded the 2002 trail connector project last evening. Amy was present
so the only outstanding aspect of that project is the acquisition of the Limited Use Permit, or the
LUP from MnDot, so I'll be meeting with them over the next few days and finalizing the details.
MnDot has a very rigid set of specifications for installing improvements within their right-of-
way. They are flexible and so those are the points that we'll be talking about. Such things as
they only want 10 foot trails. This is an 8 foot trail. They have some surface water runoff issues
and curbing issues. Clearance issues so we'll be meeting with MnDot on all those items and then
lining up the contractor and getting him going, probably within the next 30 days.
Franks: Great. Wonderful.
Hoffman: They also approved the RFI and that will be mailed the first part of next week to all
those potential partners for a future community center in Chanhassen.
Franks: And about how many panners are you, potential partners are you mailing to?
Hoffman: There's a list of probably just under 20. 17 or so.
Franks: Thank you Todd. Any other announcements?
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Greg Blaufuss: I'm Greg Blaufuss, 7116 Utica Lane in Chanhassen. I've been a resident for 16
years. I'm here tonight, as Jerry alluded to, to make an informal proposal or something that
would maybe spur some action on behalf of the kids in the community and the sports
organizations to ask for some type of something, I don't have specifics, but something that would
memorialize the volunteer efforts of Frank Scott. I'm going to ask now, the teacher in me asks,
raise your hand if you didn't know Frank Scott.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: You know I think what might be helpful Greg, if you're willing to take some time just to
give a little.
Greg Blaufuss: I'd gladly do that. I didn't want to, I don't want to take too much of your time
but I'll just try. to summarize Frank's volunteer efforts in the community. He came here about 10
years ago. I'll use quite a few about's because I don't have the exact dates but, as a grandfather,
was a grandfather at the time and volunteered immediately came to the CAA to volunteer as a,
anything he could do. I think he wanted the President's job actually. So one of the guys
remembered today as we were talking about some other stuff, and we told him that it was
probably a good idea to start a little bit lower because the President's job was a handful at the
time, and is even more so now but so he took, I think he settled on a director of athletics or
something for the CAA. But was more than a board member. I mean he was a volunteer through
and through. He looked to do hands on things. Things that would benefit the players and the kids
and did a good job at it. I have some notes here, I guess I'll use my cheaters. Yeah, hands on
volunteer. Like I said, he started about 10 years ago. We lost him to cancer. The community lost
him to cancer about 2 years ago if I'm not mistaken. And in that time he started with the CAA
and he moved onto the Chan/Chaska Soccer Club and worked for us, or volunteered for us.
During the course of his volunteerism in the community, and mostly with the sports groups, he,
we decided because our conscience kind of bothered us at the CAA level, we decided to offer him
some, just a pittance. I mean something to, for gas money or something because he was easily
working 40 hours a week for the club at the time. And that's the way that he came to us, the
form that he came to us at the Chan/Chaska Soccer Club as well. He also was involved with the
volunteer, or I'm sorry, the Victoria groups, athletic groups just before he passed away and was
officed out of a building that they recently bought. So between those three sports groups he did a
lot for the community. In addition he was mostly interested in helping the kids and moving
things forward that would benefit the kids, but in addition to that he had a seat here for a while I
think. It didn't serve the purpose that he thought, he originally intended it would. That being to
serve the kids or to make headway on things that would benefit the kids. He, I saw him when I
voted. I saw him when we'd come up here to park cars. He'd be directing traffic. He was all
over the community. So the reason I'm here tonight, and the reason that this has been kind of on
my to do list for a while, is that I think he's a good, he's an excellent role model for people who
would like to volunteer with all of these guys. I've invited past presidents and other sports
members of the community to come for support but as we all know it's more and more difficult to
find volunteers these days, and especially the caliber of Frank who most of the years that he
volunteered for us did not have a player or even a grandson participating in the sports. So I'm
thinking, you know I said I don't have specifics in mind when it comes to what I'm looking for
but I'd like something, not just to name a building after him or something but something that
would remind people of what he did for the community and hopefully spur other people on to do
that same thing. I was fortunate enough to meet Frank at the first meeting he was at when he
wanted to be the president right off the bat, and it was about 2 weeks before he passed away that I
was in my last meeting with him and inbetween I worked with him in various capacities. A
couple presidencies and all of that so I know him quite well. But more importantly I'm looking
to, for this community rather. Not I, but I think the community should be looking to set this as an
example for other senior citizens and members of the community that would like to, or haven't
thought about volunteering. And on those lines I thank you for your time that you spend here.
Franks: Thanks Greg. Todd, is there anything more you'd like to add?
Hoffman: If there's anyone else that would like to share some thoughts of Frank. He was a
special man in the community and he served on this commission so if anyone else would like to
talk. The city at the time of Frank's death contributed $500 to the Frank Scott Memorial Fund so
that was done immediately following his death. And there was a lot of talk at that time about
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
some sort of memorial because Frank was probably, had the largest impact, or he spent just the
hardest working volunteer for youth sports that I've seen in my time here. In terms of the time
that he contributed to the city so there was a lot of discussion at that time, but there's no criteria
currently that the City Council has for memorials and so we have nothing to base it on. It's
something the community should be talking about so I'm glad that Greg came in and if anyone
else.
Franks: Well you know, I think I'm the only sitting commissioner right now that was actually
here on the commission when Frank was active, and so if there are any of the rest of you would
like to come up and just let everybody else know about Frank, I think it'd be really appreciated.
Joe Scott: I'm Joe Scott, 7091 Pimlico Lane in Chanhassen. I'm not related to Frank and I guess
I wish I was, but my work with him involved, I'm currently the president of the Chan/Chaska
Soccer Club and I got to know Frank through that organization and that was, the thing that really
amazed me about him was that most people who would volunteer to a youth sports organization
have a kid in it. So it's like I'm the president as I mentioned. My daughter's in the club. Is it
selfish? Yeah. Maybe not, but he didn't have anybody in any of these organizations. He did
have one grandson for a couple of years. I mean but he was totally into it. He could always be
counted on to do stuff, and as Greg mentioned, you just, he was like one of these people. You
would see him at, it appeared anyway, at every youth sporting event. He'd be there watching.
He'd be there directing traffic. Concessions and so forth, and he was so beyond what you would
normally expect from a volunteer. And I know at our school district level, volunteerism is one of
the seven things that we really want our kids to consider. And this might be kind of a fitting way
to do this, and if there' s any sort of memorial, I think it' s important that not only do you have the
person's name, but volunteer or something like this so people know that this person was a
volunteer and this is the length to which we as a community go to make sure people understand
who these folks are. So that, those are basically the extent of my comments. Thanks.
Franks: Thank you.
Greg Hromatka: Good evening. My name's Greg Hromatka, 7580 Canyon Curve, and I moved
here in '90 and got involved with the CAA a year or two after that. When my oldest daughter hit
about 5-6 years old, and met Frank early and the spirit of volunteerism with Frank can be
epitomized by, you have jobs to do and you know you're begging people to come and do
whatever, and Frank would show up with the hard hat. And that was it. I mean he was always
there and I can't say enough about him. It would just echo on but we could go all night with it,
what he said. Thank you.
Franks: Well we like to hear from everybody so. There's always time on this commission for
that.
Jack Jensen: I'd feel left out if I didn't say something. I'm Jack Jensen at 8480 Pelican Court.
I' m the current president of Chanhassen Athletic Association, CAA which they alluded to.
Frank, I mean I was also at the first meeting Frank was at. I was the president that was stepping
out at the time and I came back. But yeah, what's that?
Ruegemer: Quit having kids...
Jack Jensen: I know, geez. But it was, Frank was, I mean I see now what Frank meant to our
group of the CAA. I know he helped out with the Chan/Chaska Soccer Club and the Victoria
group too and his daughter helped out right after his passing and when he had gotten sick and it
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
was just so much that he had done that our volunteers almost, you know I don't know if they, you
know they appreciated everything that he did and he did more than what was asked of him. He
was like they alluded to before, he was always at everything. I mean even things with the city.
He'd go upto the Easter Egg Hunt, that type of thing. I mean he was, you'd see him everywhere
you know I mean, and I think he's, if he's, I think he's a Chan resident that lived in Shorewood
right on the, I think his water bill ended up being our's so that's why he was one of u-s. So it was,
and he did have some grandkids in the area. But that's not, he just wanted to keep going after he
retired from his job and he wanted to help and give back to the community and he saw that it was
a need to help us here and we appreciated the help. We needed the help. And he almost just like
almost single handedly took things in his own hands and make them work. You know if the plans
were each of the different committees, whether it be soccer, baseball, softball. I mean he just
took things to the end and just helped the board out. Myself and I know that Greg was on the
board. Joe's been on the board. Greg's been on the board, so it's just so much help that he's just
dearly missed in our organization and just a sweet, sweet person. So, and with the other
communities, I mean he'd always stand up for what we needed. If we needed fields in different
communities, he'd always be there for us to make sure that, you know he was at the meetings for
all these different communities. You know being the president I know there's just every
community has different meetings in baseball, softball, soccer, I mean you're just going all over
the place for the meetings and he was at all of them and just spent so much time doing it and I
think it would be just a great honor if we somehow just remembered him in something that, like
was also said that you know that the kids and the seniors and the people could see that, how much
he meant to us and boy, he's dearly missed. That's all.
Franks: Thank. I'd like to bring this back to the commission, if there's any comments.
Spizale: He sounds like a fantastic person. I wish I would have known him. There's no
precedent of doing something like this before, right?
Hoffman: There's memorials. It's been more private basis for private residents have been made
in the community. Benches, trees, those type of things. There are streets, parks that are named
after individuals. That tYpe of thing, but not in recent history has a memorial.
Spizale: Dave Huffman.
Hoffman: Yeah, Dave Huffman. There's a plaque at Bandimere Park. He was a commissioner
that served on the Park and Rec Commissioner would probably be the most recent, public figure
that's received a memorial on behalf of his family and...
Spizale: I would see something sports related, if they're to do something like that, it sounds like
it'd be a right venue.
Franks: Amy.
O' Shea: Yeah, I think it would be excellent if we could do something to recognize that. To also
help promote recruiting fabulous volunteers, to use it as that outlet too. I think when we do this,
and maybe this is a time to do it is, that we need some criteria because then when someone else
comes that feels that they were an excellent volunteer, we need to have something that we're able
to format it and fit other people into that I think is important too because there might be, there's a
question of why we turn someone else down and why did we accept Frank Scott. But I think we
should look at this and try to brainstorm later to come up with some ideas.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Is that it?
O'Shea: That's the best...
Franks: Alrighty. Yeah, just a couple questions. I came on right as Frank was leaving and then
it's like he didn't leave. He was almost every Tuesday commission meeting, there was some kind
of issue or he was just going to sit up here and listen and make sure we did it right. Sit out in the
audience so he was sure committed. One of the things, questions that I have though from you all,
either from the CAA or the Chan/Chaska Soccer, is have you considered developing your own
like volunteer award within your own, within the athletic organizations? I guess what I'm
wondering, are you looking, because you mentioned volunteerism and really focusing on
volunteerism, and I had thought about that prior to that being mentioned. My thought up until
that had been okay, looking at some kind of physical field or you know some kind of recreation
amenity, memorializing that way but when you mentioned volunteerism, that sounds like
something more active.
Greg Blaufuss: Yeah, it's probably a good idea to have something like that on an ongoing basis
too, to encourage volunteers to step forward and do their best...good idea, and I haven't ever
been involved in a discussion...but there's a small audience. I thought city wide going to
recognize his efforts and number two, to encourage others to do the same. And if you're wanting
to do it with, like I say, a small audience within 1,500 families, it's a one shot and it's gone and
they move out... What I'm thinking is something where...the Dave Huffman plaque that
remembers I think that mentions his volunteering in Boy Scouts. So yeah, a good idea. The
plaque should be probably brought up...recognize volunteers from here on out and maybe even
the past, but...
Franks: Okay, so you're thinking for the city to take a look at this, or this commission to really
look at something physical in nature, either a plaque or a naming a field or naming a building or
something. That's what you're really.
Greg Blaufuss: Yeah, and you know, to roll it in maybe with something else...put in a project or
in the future. Maybe just a park, idea that she mentioned other volunteers. Maybe we start
something that we could just keep adding volunteers of this caliber to and have a tradition,
encourage people to do...
Hoffman: One thing along those lines would be a large wall plaque in the recreation center
named the Frank Scott Volunteerism Memorial. Maybe put Frank at the top and then we lay
down a criteria for future nominations for that and then those are submitted to the city over time
and other people aspire to fill that same level and their name, based on that criteria. That's one.
Franks: Would it be too difficult to kind of combine the two approaches? One is for the city to
actually house and maintain the plaque and you know put up the new plaques, but really have the
Athletic Associations make the nominations and the decisions about their recipient of the award.
Does that get too complicated?
Stolar: Well I don't think, I think if we set up a criteria that we would look to you to provide us
with the names but I wouldn't limit it to just them. We would have other opportunities but if we
established a criteria, then I think anybody can submit them but the concern I would have, I agree
with your idea. I like that idea. I just want to make sure we have a good flow of people so that
doesn't have one name and all these blank names. I think we should work hard together to make
sure we maintain, because again it's to promote volunteerism.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ·
Franks: Volunteerism in general or are we thinking volunteerism for our youth athletics?
Stolar: I was thinking for community athletics. I wouldn't just limit it to youth.
Hoffman: That's a good discussion for.
Stolar: Future meeting?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Stolar: I mean I think we should come up with the criteria and determine what it means but I
think we're pretty consistent saying maybe we honor him by making the plaque, the larger plaque
in his name.
Atkins: Yeah, I'd hate to see it maybe we should discuss whether it should be limited to
volunteerism just in that capacity. It could include volunteerism in any capacity in the city.
Possibly but if the name of the award was named after Frank Scott, that way he would be
memorialized. Then I think that we should have input from the athletic groups...
Franks: Well I hate to do this to you but it looks like you'll have some wOrk to do, and that's
your job. It seems to me to be aPpropriate to direct staff at least to take a look at the other types
of awards that are presented by the city and the criteria that go along with them. And Todd, if
you couldn't just apply that and come up with some recommendations that we can talk over and
discuss. I'd also like for representatives from the athletic associations too to maybe get back in
touch with you at a later date, after they' ve had some discussion about exactly what it is that
they're considering too. Since the idea's really coming from you, I think it's pretty crucial that
we have that input.
Hoffman: I'll also contact Judy Scott and talk to her. Have a conversation about has the
memorial fund ever been applied to a project, and if not, she may choose to go ahead and apply
that, those funds to a project of this nature.
Audience: I talked to Jim tonight, his son, and he said they haven't done anything with the funds
but Frank, he thinks, they would prefer to use the funds on some type of a...
Franks: Okay, great. But if you can both, if you can do that, go back to your organizations and
say hey, you know what. It's obvious that as a commission we're really receptive to the idea of
finding the most appropriate way to put out there for the rest of the city the values that Frank
stood for. Children, athletics and volunteerism, so and then how we might combine that. If you
want to get back in touch with Todd, that'd be great. Todd, if you want to bring that up to us at
an agenda light meeting maybe, and then make sure it's, the people here today at least for sure are
notified that it's coming up on the agenda. Does that require a motion from us tonight?
Hoffman: No. It's under visitor presentation.
Franks: Gmat, thanks. Thank you. It appears we also have Joe Scott hem tonight.
MULTI-BAND BENEFIT CONCERT - JULY 4m~ 2003 AND "TARGET MARKET"
CONCERT PROPOSALS~ JOE SCOTT.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Joe Scott: Thank you very much. I'm at a different vein. One of the things that I've actually
been kicking around with Jerry and Corey and Todd is, being a musician and we see the tent and
the tables and chairs and stuff sitting idol during 4th of July, and there's always a great concert
there on the 3rd of July so one of the things that, and this is really hasn't, doesn't have a lot of
specifics but what I was interested in getting your feedback on this concept is that, what I'd be
willing to do and there's 2 other gentlemen who weren't able to be here tonight, would be to put
on a concert and it would be involving different music acts that have at least one resident in
Chanhassen. There'd be some adult acts. I know a couple of high school bands that would be
interested, but what we're thinking about doing is having this to benefit something like the
Carver-Scott Food Shelf and basically how it would be promoted is, we'd want to have one of
your folks drive a dump truck or a pick-up truck or something like that promoting this concert
through the parade. We would basically hold it in the tent and then try to get it started maybe a
half hour before the end of the parade so that we have several thousand people downtown and it'd
be very natural for them to stay in downtown and come and listen to the music. We're thinking
maybe 3:00 to maybe 7:00 or 8:00. Something like that. So basically what I was interested in
finding out how receptive you would be to that sort of thing. From what I understand, the
utilities, I guess you guys are working on actually getting some better permanent power to that
part of the field. We would supply the staging, the sound systems, the acts. I mean there'd be no
expense to the city with the exception of you know driving the truck. What the concept is, is
we're going to try to fill this truck up with, if you wouldn't mind Dale, but the concept is to fill
this vehicle up with canned goods or something like that. So that's the first piece. The second
piece, and this is I'm thinking about for 2003. The second piece is something that's a little bit
more immediate. I think some of you may be familiar with the Target Market Group. It' s the
youth anti-smoking group that' s, it's a state organization that's funded by some of the money
from the tobacco settlement, and my son Dan, who also is a musician, has been contacted by their
regional group and they're really interested in putting on a target market concert in this area, in
the District 112 area. And what that involves is, they're looking for a venue. They will fund the
entertainment. They'll fund any sort of electricity that needs to happen. Security, trash, biffs,
that sort of thing, and one of the venues that kind of stands out would be, and I don't know the
field number, but when you come into Lake Ann you go past, there's like a football field. It's a
softball field that points toward Lake Ann and it's almost like a natural amphitheater. It's kind of
dug into the side of the berm there, and the thought is, would be to have some sort of a backstop
there. The stage would be in that area, and I think it'd probably be less disturbing for the
neighbors since it would be pointing out at the lake. So basically there's two concepts that we
wanted to get your feedback on. One is basically utilizing the tent and so forth for 4th of July,
2003...work it out with staff based upon their criteria. Then keep us involved. Let us know
what's going on. But so we're looking for at least your approval of the concept, but just basically
more direction for us to work with city staff. And if they happen to have objections that can't be
overcome, it's just not going to happen. The initial feedback is, it's a pretty sound idea. So that's
basically what I'm looking for on those two particular items.
Franks: Joe, do you want to stay up at the podium and see if there's any questions for from the
commission.
Joe Scott: I could. If this has to be recorded I should probably stay here. Otherwise I can sit
down. Whatever you guys want. I'll just stay here if you...
Franks: Well we can hear you better with your mic.
Joe Scott: Cool, okay. That's fine.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Are there any questions from commission members?
O'Shea: What does the city staff initially think about the 4th of July thing in the tent?
Ruegemer: We-certainly have talked about it and discussed it in the past, and it appears it has
certainly the wish of this commission, or prior commission to kind of add something after the
parade so this may be a good fit.
O'Shea: We did do a performance of a melodrama act in the parade and it was...
Joe Scott: It was wonderful by the way.
O'Shea: ...and we had a huge crowd so I think people definitely would love to stick around and
have something to do.
Spizale: I think it's a great idea, because unfortunately it's like everybody kind of rushes out of
the city and you have that traffic problem of everybody trying to get on 5 at the same time and
being a newer resident of Chanhassen, I would definitely myself look for something to do after
the parade, since we're all here. And using the tent and the tables and everything that's there
basically. Plus it goes for a nice cause.
Joe Scott: Yeah. We'll raise the money necessary to get it working so that's, you guys don't
have to pay anything for that.
Atkins: Two comments. One, could the donation, whatever it may be, switch every year? So
that non-profits could then kind of bid in and they'd say well we have a 100 volunteers that could
help so is that flexible that it could go to?
Joe Scott: Yeah, we just basically want to do something and it's a good opportunity to showcase
some different musicians and I think that the people in town don't even realize there's a lot of
actually fairly well known acts that are headquartered in Chanhassen. But as far as, we just want
to donate something to an organization and the first thing that popped into our mind, because it's
more of a physical, canned goods type of thing would be the food shelf but, and then also too,
something like that it's, we don't want to get into a situation where we're collecting money.
That's just too risky, but if it's something where if you have something to donate, there's the
truck. If you don't, fine. You know so it's, we'll just see how it works and maybe get more
formal but I don't want to over engineer things. Basically what we're trying to do is, we'd just
like to pull it off without any injuries and then learn from it. And talk to these guys and say okay,
how did it go? A through F. Okay, what do we need to do differently? And then basically prove
that it can be done safely and then turn it into something a little bit more organized the second
time around and third and so fourth.
Atkins: Okay, and then the only other thing is, when I read this, and I didn't jump into the case
with the tobacco settlement. Right away I thought oh Target is involved.
Joe Scott: No.
Atkins: But that, I don't know if the name would be confusing to call it Target Market.
Joe Scott: For the audience. The whole target market concept, and I'm obviously, I'm not in that
demographic. But from what, when I talk to people who are usually, they're squarely targeting
pre-teens and teens and I know a lot of kids in that age group and they're very familiar with it and
·
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
it's, they like it. It' s kind of edgy. It gets the message across and I'm excited that my son' s, well
he happens to be like way out of town right now but they had a chance to chat with him today and
he just wanted me to bring it forward. Have you guys think about it, but there's a lot of details
that have to be done and you know, these guys are the detail meisters so they'll make sure it's on
track and it's appropriate for what you guys want to have happen in town.
Hoffman: It has it's own logo. Target Market.
Stolar: Have we done anything like that before with specific groups like that? Allowing them to
do these concerts.
Hoffman: Not that I recall. Target Market will be at the 4th of July festival, or have they made
that commitment? We had a call from the high school at least showing an interest to be up here at
the street dance. I'm not sure if that's come about as yet so, but it's a good project I think for a
community to be involved in and they' re at the high school and so bringing that out into the large
community I think we can only show support for good habits for our young people.
Stolar: And the question becomes, like any other group, where do we have criteria that, so that
we either one, make this a programmatic event where others can choose to do it. Whether it's the
tent idea, which is separate from this one or not, and then at what point do we have to put in some
criteria to say this type of thing is okay versus this type of thing? Because when you start getting
into causes, political causes, which are somewhat what this is, I get a little nervous. I'm for this
particular one. That's my opinion. I just want to make sure that, I think staff should look into it
but we should be cautious and make sure we understand. I understand what theg do, they just try
to educate.
Hoffman: We're not going to be, we would not necessarily be a sponsor of Target Market. We
would simply write them a permit to utilize the facility and that's already covered under city
ordinance.
Stolar: Great. That's all I wanted to know.
Hoffman: They get a group gathering permit and.
Joe Scott: Loud speaker permit.
Stolar: The big part I like about this, aside from the cause itself, but the idea of opening a venue
that may not be fully utilized to something like this is a good idea. Both the tent and this other
one and I think any time we can do that, that's great.
Hoffman: The notion of having something after the parade has been kicked around for a number
of years because the big tents and the chairs are sitting there, you can utilize them twice for one
price. Some of the logistics I think if you put 500 people back under that tent they're going to
want something to eat and drink, and so there's some logistics about concessions and those type
of things and then making sure that the site is clean the morning after the dance so you have a
clean tent area for this type of thing. Those are issues that I don't think...
Franks: Thanks Joe.
Joe Scott: Cool. Thank you very much.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ·
Franks: I think both ideas are good. The one about using the tent. I wish we had started earlier
and were able to do that this year, but next year will be just fine with me. And the Target Market
one, you know we allow groups that the city does not sponsor to take permits and use our
facilities so, the'NT Wakeboard tournament for one. We don't sponsor them but they certainly
are issued a permit to use all of Lake Susan Park so I don't really see too much difference
between the two, just so it doesn't conflict with whatever kind of schedules we have going on...
already so. Are we in consensus as a commission to direct staff to continue conversations with
Mr. Scott and/or representatives and kind of work out some of these details and when we start
planning the 2003 July 4~ celebration, maybe have a presentation put before the commission with
maybe some more detail. I don't know how far they need to go through the permitting, applying
for permits prior to coming to the commission or?
Hoffman: On which one? On Target Market?
Franks: On Target Market, yeah.
Hoffman: That we'll leave up to them. You've said the idea is fine and the other one, the band
concert with the 4t~ of July, we'll continue to work with Joe as a partnership and then the Target
Market, he'll work on independently with those folks and get back to the city.
Atkins:
So the event under the tent for this year is out? It's too soon?
Franks: Right.
Joe Scott:
Hoffman:
...I me~ anything's possible.
You'd have to just show up.
Joe Scott: That would be what would happen.
Franks: Sure. Well great, thank you.
Joe Scott: Thank you for your time.
It would be certainly ad hoc. I would not...
Franks: Great ideas. Not seeing anyone else in the audience to address for visitor presentations,
we'll move on with the agenda to the approval of the minutes.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Franks: Any commissioners with comments regarding the minutes of May 29, 2002?
Atkins: Yeah, I'm listed under members absent and I'm pretty sure I was here. I was here.
Franks: And I believe Tom Kelly was absent.
Hoffman: That will change some things. Now there are probably some things that are said in
there that are.
O'Shea: That was my next one. On page 9, where O'Shea said, that was from Paula. I believe
that Paula.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: You're going to get a lot of that stuff now. Anything that Paula said is going to be
Amy so we'll have to make those changes.
O'Shea: But page 9, isn't it Paula? I think you were the first one to start.
Atkins: Yes.
Franks: Alright. So that's throughout.
Stolar: Not necessarily throughout but there's no distinction.
Hoffman: We'll correct that. My apologies.
Stolar: On page 20, just real quick. The number that should be used in my comment there is 9
percent of the people supported building a community center. Not 90. Just a little bit of a
difference. So throughout that paragraph it should just be 9. And then actually the next one
beyond that as well.
Hoffman: Nann will get to know you all real soon.
Franks: Jack, anything?
Spizale: No. All my stuff is correct.
Franks: Is there a motion to approve the minutes as to be corrected?
Stolar: So moved.
Franks: Second?
Spizale: Second.
Stolar moved, Spizale seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation
Commission meeting dated May 29, 2002 as amended. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
2002 4TM OF JULY TRADE BOOTH.
Hoffman: Thank you. The staff has reserved a booth for the 4th of July trade fair and for those of
you who have been participated in that event, you know what it is. It's Chamber of Commerce
and all of the retailers in town, service organizations, politicians and the commission has had an
off and on tradition of being present at the trade fair attendance. It' s a great opportunity for some
face to face contact with the community, and to gather some just to conduct a couple hours of
public relations. So with that we've bartered for the $100 fee. The trade fair is still, the Chamber
is selling concessions and that cost them 100 bucks so we traded that $100 for your fee for the
trade fair. We have for your table, your booth, a table cloth, summer program brochures, the park
and trail maps, the Chan promo magnet clips that you saw a little while ago, to hand those out.
Suggestion box and cards, so people who don't want to say up front exactly what they're thinking
will write it down on a card. It was very helpful the last time we did it, and provide some good
ideas for the commission to start to think about and then anything else that the commission
requests. We received today some little, the kids, what do you call them? Tattoo's. It's the parks
11
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ·
and recreation...but we need, I know Corey has contacted all of you and everybody has
volunteered to work at the t-shirt sales and the other booth, so we need to start making some time
slot adjustments to make sure that we have both of these areas covered. The fair is scheduled
from 4:30 to 6:30. This booth will require 2 commissioners is best, and the 2 shifts that I have
identified is 4:00 to 5:30 and then 5:30 to 7:00 and do you know what time Corey's shifts are?
Ruegemer: I don't.
Gregory: 6:30 to 8:45 and 8:45 to 11:00 on the 3rd. Something like that.
Hoffman: Same night. So it only affects the first shift. Somehow I'll allow Chair Franks to
resolve the shifts.
Franks: Well we can start by resolving that easy because I will be there at 4:00 for the first shift
for sure.
Hoffman: We need more than that.
Atkins: I'll work the first shift because I'm working for Corey from 8:45 to 11:00, so if I can do
4:00 to 5:30 and then I can have a break.
Hoffman: Now I need 2 for the 5:30 to 7:00.
Franks: Well let me see, Tom's not here and Dave's not here. Can't do that.
Stolar: One of them said they weren't going to be around the 4th of July either. I think Dave said
that he wasn't going to be around 4m of July.
Hoffman: Yeah, Dave will not be around. So we're talking 5:30 to 7:00.
Stolar: Right, which does that overlap with the other stuff Corey has, right?
Franks: Yeah, I mean I'll be hanging out Todd really technically until the end of the kiddie
parade. So that's probably close, more to 6:00 or a little bit later.
O'Shea: What was the first shift for Corey?
Stolar: 6:30, so I'm on the second shift so I could do the second shift here. I'll confirm that with
you guys, make sure nothing's planned beforehand.
Hoffman: So you can do.
Stolar: 5:30 to 7:00 potentially, I'll confirm it tonight and leave you a message.
O'Shea: And I think I have the first shift with Corey so I could do 5:30 to 6:30 then. If that
helps.
Hoffman: Sure does. Yeah, that takes care of it because it's really done at 6:30.
Franks: It really is. Thanks Amy.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: And I'll be there as well throughout the festival popping in and out.
Stolar: This is the 3rd?
Hoffman: Street dance. It's right up here in the second tent. So you'll have a commission booth
and mingling with the people of Chanhassen about Parks and recreation.
Franks: I'm just remembering the very first 4~ of July I volunteered as a commissioner was in
the trade fair, and we had that sucker prize give away thing. I think I gave away all the prizes in
the first 20 minutes. I just couldn't help myself. Todd came by and he goes, where are all the
bike helmets. I gave them away. I think he went up to public safety and got a few more. It was
pretty funny.
REPORTS:
RECREATION PROGRAMS: 4TM OF ~lULY CELEBRATION.
Ruegemer: Well everybody knows that the big celebration is coming up next week. Corey's
been working like a little worker ant. Running around like crazy and trying to iron out all the
details. We do have obviously a few obstacles to overcome now that we've moved locations
again where, you'll see our old location is 6 feet under the ground now, but with the change in
location we are, somebody mentioned before that we are trying to overcome some power
obstacles at this point. We certainly have a Plan B in place right now so we have a lot of those
construction things covered. We need to iron out some more of those details but Corey's been
working very hard, pretty much working out all the details to get it figured out. We' ve been
looking at where food vendors are going. We did that pretty much all day today and locate for
tents and really trying to lay out a nice area up to the north of city hall here where it will fall with
people, as well as we're going to be utilizing north of the trail as well as the City Center Park and
we'll have pony rides up there, hot air balloon, water wars, the racing games, a lot of those such
things that will be north of the actual trail up at City Center Park so we'll be using a lot of that
kind of open space up in that area. So we're really trying to kind of lay out things where we have
power and where we don't have power and a lot of those things will fall into place here and of
course...come in early to try and get that together. Information has gone out for the schedule of
events. More will be coming out. Everybody had a chance I'm sure to look at the schedule of
events. Those are with your agendas. So as early as, you know the t-shin sales have been okay.
We're giving a lot of those out to our sponsors here. Those went out today and tomorrow and
really just trying to get things all kind of pulled together. Does anybody have any questions? I
know that Corey has talked to, as made mention before, on the trade fair conversations that he has
contacted all of you about volunteering that evening so Corey would appreciate your help with
that so, he'll have more specifics as far as kind of job duties that evening. Prize board sales and a
lot of those types of assignments. Does anybody have any questions at all?
Franks: Just something from me to pass onto Corey is, I don't know if you want to consider at
some point in the evening on the 3rd, doing the t-shin sale 2 for $15 or something because I know
we're packing up boxes of those shirts at the end of the night so.
Hoffman: Are we in control of that price?
Ruegemer: We are not.
Franks: We are not.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ·
Ruegemer: I don't know if anybody knows that kind of story behind the t-shirt design. Basically
there's an idea that kind of formed from the Chamber, you know the City of Chanhassen. A lot
of people kind. of came together on this with the idea of kind of having a community type of
event. Have a kind of solicit I guess students from Chaska High School as well as Minnetonka
High School. Kind of solicit their ideas for a t-shirt design, and basically for I guess-
compensation if your design was the winning design they, well not donate but they, you have
received a $1,000 check for your efforts and commitment I guess to that project. And then the art
departments then each of the winning school then was presented a check for $250 for that.
Basically the theme this year was patriotism so, and the design of the shirts then they had to
include patriotism in that design. So it being kind of a community type of spirit and effort behind
this, the price is the price.
Stolar: No matter where you buy it.
Ruegemer: No matter where you buy it, yes.
Franks: Can you sell them for $12 then in the tent?
Hoffman: You bet.
Franks: And the signage accordingly maybe.
Hoffman: 12 bucks.
Ruegemer: The proceeds then from the t-shirt sales will be going to the library project.
O'Shea: Is there a good variety of sizes?
Hoffman: There seems to be, isn't there?
O'Shea: There's always so many extra larges. It seems like there's always a lot more really huge
ones and I know that kids like to have them too.
Ruegemer: Yeah, I think there is kids sizes in there actually.
Hoffman: And it's next week.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
Marek: It seems a little odd to see you sitting in the middle there.
Franks: I've been in the middle my whole life.
Marek: Well congratulations on your position.
Franks: Thank you.
Marek: And welcome new commissioners. I'm here to tell you about the recreation center. I
come 4 times a year and you missed my last one. It was a multi-media presentation. Today
you're just getting me talking from a sheet of paper. Perhaps my next one will be a little more
14
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
vibrant for you. So this is my opportunity to update you on what is going on out at our rec center.
I'm going to go right down the list here and add a couple of extra things along with it. I did have
a beautification project to work on this year, and that included adding a perennial garden to the
front entrance of the rec center. Has anybody seen that little half circle out there yet? Okay, not
quite finished yet. We're finishing that park bench to go right in the...that's for a very minimal
price of about $200, and some of Dale' s labor. We were able to put that in there. We rescued
quite a few of those plants from the entrance of the library. So we're happy about that, so it's
going to be finished here in 4 weeks or so we get the bench. Other than that we've just been
upgrading some of the other garden areas around the rec center, which has been kind of fun. I
personally get to do that. The other thing with the summer, certainly our room rentals are much
slower than they are during the school year. Our business there is seasonal. We also have the
seasonal predictable decline in our fitness participants. But along with that kind of decline in
traffic in our building we still seem to be attending to quite a bit of front desk business.
Especially since the weather has been so horrible for 2 weeks of our summer programs, it' s taken
up quite a bit of our time trying to manage parents and children and finding alternate locations
and canceling programs. So we're busy with that. Over the summer is our opportunity out at the
rec center to assign staff to special cleaning projects so we've already started that, so that by the
time September rolls around we're looking pretty spiffy out there. Big event that recently
occurred, our annual Dance for Fun recital was held on May 4t~ at the Eden Prairie Performing
Arts Center. There were 2 shows on that day with about 700 tickets sold for each show. The
theme this year was Boogie Fever, and we had a pretty rough rehearsal in the fact that we had no
music for the first hour and a half of that rehearsal so pretty hard to practice your dances when
you have no sound. But we got through it and amazingly the shows came off flawlessly. Mayor
Jansen was there and did participate in choosing some awards that were given out at the recital.
Very successful program for us. Another special program we run every spring is the 5K in May
training course. For the last 3 years we've had 20 people sign up for this class, where we take
people who are novice runners or no running at all in their history, and put them through a
training course so they are able to finish a 5K race. And one of my fitness instructors, Joann
Killian is just does a wonderful job with that program and we're happy to have her conclude that
for the third year. And amazingly I've lost a staff member off the rec center. Can you believe it?
Hoffman: Somebody left.
Marek: ...It's been remarkably stable out there, but Jon Effertz did leave the rec center and found
a job in his career field. Closer to his career field and so we sent him off with good wishes. He
still shows up for basketball at lunchtime so he didn't go very far. And in addition to what's
included in my update, a very serious recent event did occur at the rec center. June 21st at 5:30
a.m. the recreation center and Bluff Creek Elementary School was struck by lightning. And so I
just kind of wanted to recap for you some of the damage that was incurred. The exterior handicap
assist doors were blown out. 4 fire alarm pulls...were blown out. Our security system was blown
out. Our phones and computer lines were down for about 48 hours. Our cable service is still not
working. And we have two exercise bikes that were blown their control panel off of them. This
is just what we've found so far. As we go through and try to use some of these things, we expect
we'll probably find a few more items. With the exception of the exercise bikes, everything else
should be fixed yet this week. The only expense to the city is with regard to the Rick Rice's time
in addressing the phone and computer issues. I've got a request out for pricing on fixing the
exercise bikes but I presume that will probably be a little over a thousand dollars. To get those
operational again.
Hoffman: City Hall was hit the same morning and it took out a variety of computer components.
All protected by lightning protection but the intensity of those just overwhelmed it.
15
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ·
Marek: That's all that's been happening at the Rec Center.
Hoffman: You guys remember that morning?
Franks: Yes. I heard that one. I thought it was right in my back yard. That must have been the
one that hit City Hall.
Marek: Jon was just about ready to open the doors when the lightning hit.
Franks: Now are you guys all going to go out and buy lottery tickets because the odds are about
the same, right?
Marek: We're in a tough spot because shortly after lightning struck and the power went out in the
building, the fire alarms went off and our security alarms went off. Both of those systems are run
by the computer.., so the trucks were out.
Hoffman: Dale showed up about then.
Marek: We didn't know until 9:00 that anything...
Franks: Any questions for Susan?
O'Shea: I have one. Do you do, this number 5 sounds real interesting. Do you ever do that for
the Dave Huffman Run? Where you do a training like that? Do you already do that?
Marek: No we haven't.
O'Shea: Would that be a good idea?
Marek: It would be if I had an instructor who could do it during that timeframe. What we're
dealing with during, the program runs 6 weeks prior to the race date, which is a lot easier to do in
March and April when the weather's a little cooler, than say the whole month of August into
September. It's primarily a heat issue at that time, as well as instructor... It would be nice.
O'Shea: You'd probably get the commissioners back...
Hoffman: Anybody can gut out 5K.
Franks: Alright, thanks.
SENIOR CENTER REPORT.
Wickenhauser: Good evening, and many of you who don't know me. I know there's a few new
members. I'm Kara Wickenhauser and I run the senior center. I want to welcome you all to the
commission, new members.
Hoffman: And Kara's here twice a year.
Wickenhauser: Twice a year, yep. Winter and during the summer. The senior center just
completed celebrating some activities for the month of May, for Older Americans Month. We
16
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
held several special activities that honored that theme throughout the month. We had a Lake Ann
picnic out at Lake Ann. Entertainment. We had a guest speaker on investments. We had special
concerts put on by our Chan-o-laires at the recreation center. Two performances there for the
elementary students there. We had also a performance at the Centennial Hills for the residents in
town. We had a bake sale in conjunction with the Friends of the Library. 'There was a card
tournament for 500, Hand & Foot and Bridge. We had a golfing tourney out at Red Oaks in
Mound. And we also had a fishing contest on Lake Minnewashta which was kind of fun. I had
an opportunity to go out there...really good time. Ail these things were well received. Next year
they thought we should really cut down the activities because there was too many. Too
overwhelming. Or consolidate it within a few weeks so we're considering doing that, but
otherwise we think people really enjoyed the activities. Other than the special activities that we
offer throughout the month of May, we continued to offer our monthly one day outing, extended
trips, defensive driving class...foot care clinic every month...activities throughout the summer
that include Bridge, women and men's club book club. Wood carving. We're up to 19 or 20
people, and that group is really booming. We have a bingo group. Golfing group. It's been kind
of iffy this year. It' s been kind of rainy and wet and so there' s been some weeks when they
haven't been meeting ...... wrap up in June and they're going to resume back in September. I
didn't include a list of their entertaining that they did this last year. They've been doing an
excellent, they're under the direction of...she's been doing an outstanding job. Currently I'm just
working on fall programming with a committee that's set up with the Chaska Park and Rec.
We're working to partner with Chaska and...Waconia and Victoria Park and Rec and so it's kind
of neat connection. We all take a turn offering a program once a month and then we have pick-up
sites within our community. It' s kind of a nice way to lessen our cancellation of trips so it' s
really a neat connection we have going there. I'm still...programs with Eden Prairie 3 times a
year. Some of the new programs that are up and coming. I have an instrumental group that's
been meeting every Friday they've been trying to meet. We have 4 saxophones. They get
together to play for fun. I've had a couple new calls this week. I don't know what they played
but I'm hoping something other than... We're hoping for another wind wood, I don't know we'll
see but they're really, they play for fun. They'd like to maybe kind of hook up with the Chan-o-
laires and so some singing music formation and they do like to entertain at some point. I think
their biggest struggle right now...some people just want to play polka and waltzes and
their...likes classical, jazz so I with...get me to come out of retirement with my saxophone and I
keep declining but he's working hard to get me there so. We also have...fall at the rec center.
On October 25th and we're working in coordination with Beth Hoiseth, the Crime Specialist for
the City. Sergeant Potts will...Chanhassen Fire Department, the Victoria Fire Department and
the Victoria Senior Center and so we're hoping for that to be really good. Some of the topics will
include scams, fire safety, con intervention, crime prevention, 911...medical emergency services.
They'll have a luncheon and Beth has a thing so we're hoping that we'll turn up, well we do have
solicitations out with the Lions and the Legion for some funding so we're waiting to hear on that
yet. We'd like to keep the cost down to about 5 a person so that's up and coming. We have open
house on July 3rd. We have our l0th year anniversary this year since the senior center's been open
and we're taking lemonade and a magician show. And parking has been an issue for us in the
senior center but it's been going surprisingly smooth. There's been a few problems today where
someone parked and the library didn't...how to get to the senior center but other than that, people
appreciate the city blocking off space for them and accommodating them so actually some people
have said it's been easier to use the upstairs...actually go up the ramp from the front entering so
we've been pleasantly pleased with that. Any questions?
Franks: Thanks Kara. Thank you.
Hoffman: What else do you do in your 20 hours?
17
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ·
Spizale: I've got one question.
Wickenhauser: 'Yes.
Spizale: How old do you have to be to be a senior? 55 or is?
Wickenhauser: 50-55. 60. I've got very few, I think the average age is, I'm going to say 65 or
70. I think if we did more evening programming we maybe would attract more of the working
senior. It's hard to say. I'd like to eventually do some more of that.
Hoffman: No discrimination. If you feel like you want to come up.
Wickenhauser: Yes, anyone can come. But generally that's how old.
Spizale: Show my AARP card.
Wickenhauser: For defensive driving they were just talking, they're going to try to lower it to 50
for you to take the different classes, so there you go.
Spizale: Okay, thanks.
Franks: Any other questions or comments for Kara? Gmat, thanks. Wow.
PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
Gregory: Good evening. I'd like to welcome all the new commission members, and for those of
you who don't know me, my name is Dale Gregory. I am Park Superintendent for the City.
Springtime is.
Hoffman: Tell them how long you've worked here.
Gregory: 31-32 years. Springtime is always our very busy time for park maintenance staff.
Everything seems to be coming at the same time. Grass, mowing, ballfields, soccer fields, you
name it. Anything Jerry and those guys can think of and that comes at the same time. We try to
get our weed spraying done right away in the spring, and also our fertilizing. We get that going.
This year with the weather we had, we did have a little bit of trouble. We had a lot of wind in the
spring. We did have quite a bit of rain in the spring right away so fertilizing, we were able to get
that in. Spraying, we were only able to get Lake Ann, Lake Susan and some of the, we got all the
schools completely sprayed. We did get a few of the small parks and that but there was just too
much going on and that for the staff I had. With that then we didn't have any of our seasonal help
yet so we were really kind of pushed there and have to get things done. One thing we are looking
at this year, and that is possibly getting into the fall spraying and do it in the fall and try to get the
stuff that we missed now and hopefully not have to do so much in the spring so we're doing, I do
it at home. It works real well so we're going to give that a try and see if that works and see if
we've got more time. This summer, or this spring and that we were really pushed and that. We
actually put the full time guys on 10 hour days for 2 weeks just to try to keep up with things and it
seemed to work pretty good. I do have 15 seasonals that I get through the summer. Out of those,
5 of them are senior citizens and they have really been a big help to us. They run all of our big
mowers so they were doing a lot of our mowing for us this spring so if it wouldn't be for those
guys, we'd really have been behind. So my hats go off to those guys to come in and, like I say,
· .
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
even in bad weather or what, they were out there and they were mowing. They're dedicated. I've
got to give them credit for that. The Lake Ann road was finished this year. We had some
problems with that last year with the building and that, it never did get completed so this year that
got completed. We currently have the restoration to do along side of the road going in. Our
intention was to have that done before the 4th so everything would look good. The rains we've
had in the past 2 weeks and that, it's just not going to happen. We just can't get in there. It's too
wet and we wanted to have it done but it's not going to happen. So as soon as it dries up we will
get in there. We'll get that finished and get that whole thing all completed. Downtown crew,
they've been just as busy as we have and that. They only had 2 guys working down there this
whole spring. They try to take care of as much of the spraying as they can. They are pretty much
all done spraying. All done weed whipping and fertilizing downtown. Right now they've got a
full compliment of crew downtown. They are constantly working trying to get everything to look
good for the 4~ of July. For the parade route and everything downtown, they're really working
on that so. We also made a real attempt this year at with the library going in, we wanted to save
as many of those trees as we possibly could. We had 35 to 40 trees marked, and we were only
able to move about 10 because of all the utilities, fiber optics, and all that sort of stuff so we were
not able to move everything we wanted to. So those, the ones we were able to we did get moved
out into neighboring parks and that stuff so we are, they were saved what we could save. Other
than that, that's pretty much what's happening for this spring. If anybody has any questions.
Stolar: Quick, with my first City Council meeting and they were talking about the City Center
Commons and stuff going on there and one of my concerns I mentioned to Todd was, you know
can we do something to save the trees. The fact that you saved 10, thank you.
Gregory: Well like I say, when we originally looked at the plan, I mean we were hoping for a lot
more than that. We had gone out. We had marked all of these trees, and I met with all the
utilities up there. They went out and marked them, by the time they were done, there was only 10
we could really pull out and then the ones down main street were the ones I really wanted to save.
They were nice trees and those lindens and that, and it just didn't happen so. But we tried.
Stolar: And you got 10 so.
Franks: Dale just one thing for 4th of July, Todd too. Some year I think we talked about after the
fireworks display on the 4th, of having the frontage road out of Lake Ann be almost a one way.
Hoffman: It will be both. Highway 5 will open this week.
Franks: It will? So they'll be able to go both directions out of the park, okay.
Hoffman: Carver County Deputies will stop traffic on the frontage road and allow traffic to go
both ways, east and west out of Lake Ann Park.
Franks: Perfect. Great, thanks.
Gregory: ...one of the problems they were having, or did have. They wanted to open last Friday
already but they were having trouble with power to the semaphores and also they wanted I think
crosswalks and everything. They had to do the painting and everything. They had to have the
road dry for 24 hours because they can actually do the striping. But it sounds like they're pretty
much ready to open as soon as they can.
Franks: Alright, I think the parks look great.
19
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 .
Hoffman: Chair Franks, before we move on. I want to publicly acknowledge these 4 individuals
in front of the commission. These are the people that make the department operate on a day to
day basis. They make my job a pleasure and they're wonderful, committed employees and it's
great that they. stop down and keep in touch with the commission and I appreciate that they do
that. A few things on Dale's crew. They maintain the downtown, 30 miles of trails within the
community, 34 parks within the community and then something you don't think about is miles
and miles of boulevard around Powers Boulevard and the frontage road and those different types
of areas. He does that with 7 full time people, but then 2 of those are committed solely to the
downtown, so now you have 5 individuals, including Dale himself, so now you're talking about 4
individuals. Full time status to do that work. In the summer, one of those, the park foreman by
the name so Dean Schmieg is committed to managing the work of 15 seasonal employees, which
takes up his entire schedule so now you're down to 3 people to complete the other tasks in our
park system. The majority of calls or the highest percentage of calls I get from citizens are about
park maintenance and so we talk about that a great deal. Dale and I and it's our philosophy that if
we own, we want to maintain it to a level that meets people's expectations. But that can be very
difficult on a public agency. We're probably staff far less than 50 percent of what say an
Arboretum or a private amenity with private facilities, private organization would be, but these
guys pull off about 90 percent of what they need to get done and 50 percent staff so very proud of
that. Proud of what Susan does at the Rec Center. What Kara does with 20 hours at the senior
center is absolutely amazing. Remarkable and Jerry, we call him, or I call him my right hand
man. He sits right next to me. Has done that for 12 years and I couldn't make it without him so
again I just want to acknowledge all that they do for the city. They're a wonderful department.
Franks: Thank you Todd. It's all true. Thank all of you.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
2002-2007 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PROGRAM~ CIP.
Hoffman: Thank you Chair Franks, members of the commission. The rest of you are free to stay
and listen, or to take off and rejoin your families as you see fit.
Franks: Oh Todd, if I could back up one thing. Question for you Dale. How are the new trash
receptacles working out?
Gregory: They're working well.
Franks: Good.
Hoffman: Just remind them to put the covers on securely when they put them back. That's the
only thing I noticed. Those covers are sometimes tough to get back on. Our seasonal employees
just say the heck with it.
Franks: Are we thinking about sticking with this variety?
Hoffman: We purchased them for 2 years. We can purchase more next year and we have the
entire system covered.
Gregory: ...so we will be trying that this year when the bees and the wasps start getting bad.
I've already got a product we're going to be trying.., and they say it works real well, so maybe
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
we can try to eliminate some of the complaints on the bee part of there too. The concession
buildings and the park buildings...give it a whirl. If it works, we'll stay with it.
Franks: Thank you. Alright Todd, thanks.
Hoffman: So tonight we're going to continue with our work session and really open it up to talk
about what you as commissioners feel is important in the area of capital improvements in our
park system. You're all familiar with how the parks and other park systems around the
metropolitan area, in your hometown where you grew up. Where you travel and what we want to
discuss as a group is, in our system one amenity will create...best return on our investment so we
have a park system of 34 parks. A nice mix of community and neighborhood parks. Rather than
use them all, they tend to use the community parks more often, they have a very high affinity for
the neighborhood parks because it's what is down the street. It's what they, when somebody says
where do you live, I live near this park...what's there and so we want to make those areas, take
our money and make them better. I provided a sheet, which is simply an inventory of the items
and estimated cost of all the items which are displayed on our park, current park master plans.
But I want to caution you that these park master plans are simply a document primarily from, a
majority of them are 8 or 10 years old and so as you want to change the inventory list, you just
change...the park master plan and we update this and you add these other amenities. All these
we're working towards a recommendation to the City Council. We have some financial data the
commission's been asking for showing that primarily we' ve been over a half million dollars in
revenues and park and trail dedication fees in the past 5 years. 4 years and so the revenues have
been coming in nicely. The current fund balance is $1.85 million. Of course this year, huge
projects being completed. Highway 101 north, Highway 101 south. That fund will go down by
somewhere in the vicinity of a million or a million 2 so we're talking about having a much lower
reserve balance, fund reserve balance at the beginning of 2003. You all received Dave's
comments. Dave had some, he's traveling to LA but he had some comments for the commission
and I'm going to allow Chair Franks to go through the conversation with the commission. I'll be
glad to answer any questions, and this is the first step. We can identify amenities which you feel
are a value, and then we'll start plugging those into a spread sheet and start attacking it from a
financial standpoint at your next meeting. So right now we're brainstorming. We're coming up
with the best of all situations.
Franks: Thanks Todd. Bring this back to the commission. A simple way to go through the
exercise maybe we'd just go to the page where it starts with Bandimere Park on the handout in
the packet and that lists amenities in the master plan. And maybe just begin to take a look at
amenity by amenity. What we are interested in and what we are not, and then also to add any
additions that anybody's come up with.
Stolar: Todd, I sent you those materials with some of the criteria and all. Is that something we
look at later as we start prioritizing later? This is just a brainstorm of what do we want in
general?
Hoffman: Correct. I have that. Thank you for sending that. If that applies at a future time I'll
just come up with those criteria and we'll start plugging them in so it begins to work into what
we're doing here. This is no time to be shy. Go ahead and speak your mind and if there's, we're
talking big numbers and big projects but you have to say if you like it or don't like it or if we're
missing something because that's the way this exercise is going to be most effective.
Franks: Great. Well let's just start with Bandimere Park then. First thing on the top of the list is
the silo restoration. Did everybody get Dave's email?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ,
Hoffman: Dave didn't like it.
Franks: What I liked from his email though was, him actually going out and getting some of the
comments fromthe neighbors that have to look at it each day. We have to look at it every time
we drive by, but they're looking at it all the time so.
O'Shea: Is the silo on the master plan here?
Franks: The silo is fight there.
Hoffman: Yep .... shelter rest stop.
Stolar: On this map, the things that are listed here are all possible master plan items, but not all
are listed here though right?
Hoffman: Should be. Pretty darn close.
Stolar: Well the trails for example aren't, fight?
Hoffman: Trails are in.
Franks: Trails are in.
Stolar: Oh okay. How do you distinguish those that are in and those that should be? It's just
whatever's here is what's left to do?
Hoffman: You bet.
Stolar: Okay.
Hoffman: Up here. This is the distinguisher.
Franks: You know we heard what was it, at the last meeting that there's nothing unsafe or
structurally problematic about the silo the way it is.
Hoffman: No. If we want to leave it like that for another 10 or 15 years we could probably just
readdress how we close the stairway to it. The stair well to it to make that more perm_anent. It's
in wood right now...absolutely take it out and make that a metal enclosure. And have some kind
of an inspection on the facility to make sure it's not falling down. The thing that's going to go
first probably is the roof. It will continue to rust and...infiltrate that so...
Franks: And the other question I had too on Bandimere, Todd for you, the Phase II playground
equipment you have here is $60,000 on this sheet but I'm looking at my old CIP for 2004, it
looked like we had it out for $40,000.
Hoffman: I increased it.
Franks: Okay. We have a surfacing material out there now which is a poured in place rubber,
which will cost $20,000 or $25,000 of that 60. That' s my reason for the increase. Now that
we've set the standard, I can't put pea gravel at Bandimere.
22
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Just going along with the Phase II playground equipment, in a number of the parks we're
all looking at developing with Phase II the playground equipment. I think a topic for discussion
for us would be the investment that we put into that, when playground equipment already exists,
and the return from that. And where we might apply those dollars someplace else within the
system. Neighbors always talk about, and I would probably be one of them, that residents around
your neighborhood park, you want the playground equipment. You want it, you want it, you want
it. But you drive by a lot of the neighborhood parks at any particular time and the use is, you
know sporadic at some. Very, very little at others and at times it can be used, so when you look
at 40 to 60,000 for Phase II, what might we want to do with that as well and maybe delay
implementing some of these playgrounds and Phase II' s until the pressure from the
neighborhoods is greater.
Stolar: Is there a difference between a community park and a neighborhood park, as far as
utilization now? Of the playground equipment.
Hoffman: There can be. Bandimere and Lake Ann, those all see high uses, especially during
game time because there's siblings around them. But then there's other times when they're just
empty because no activity's taking place and the neighborhoods tend to see more of just the
casual activity during the week nights. The other thing to remember is there, we distinguish
between Phase I and Phase II by age. So CPSC, Consumer Product Safety Commission, ASPN,
those standards mandate that you have two separate play areas. One for age 2 to 5 and one for
age 6 to 10 or 6 to 12, so now we separate these things for Phase I. The neighborhood generally
picks and most the times they pick the older aged groups, so that one goes in and then if we do do
a Phase II, it's for the younger kids. The age 2 through 5. You have to have physical separation
between those two to meet federal regulations.
Franks: Have you been receiving comments about Phase II playground installations throughout
the neighborhood park system?
Hoffman: Now as much as we did 5 or 10, 5 or 7 years ago.
Franks: And what do you attribute that to, do you think?
Hoffman: Aging of the kids. Aging of the neighborhoods and the fact that most parks have
something and they just have not been, for a while there they screamed very loud when they
didn't have their first set of playground equipment and then some came back and said you know,
it's over run with kids. We need our Phase II, and we just have not been receiving that at the
same level of correspondence with the neighborhoods as of late.
O'Shea: And Phase II is of which age then?
Hoffman: 2 to 5. 2 to 5, the little guys. Toddlers.
Stolar: I guess going along with what you're saying though, I would think that, if we do make a
judgment there, I would lean towards the community parks providing the alternative and not
doing this in every neighborhood park to your point, unless we hear the clamorings from a
particular neighborhood. Maybe their demographics change or whatever, that they can support it
for a while but in the community park it'd be nice to have the alternatives. So for Bandimere,
being the community park, I would think we'd still want it on the list. Again I'm not prioritizing,
just brainstorming. Keep it on the list.
23
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ·
Hoffman: That's good thinking. Do those community parks first. Did you receive my little
correspondence back to Dave today explaining tennis courts? We jumped from playgrounds to
tennis courts. Tennis courts were on every park master plan and starting to put those in, .and the
commission 10 to 15 years ago said hang on a second. Tennis' popularity is starting to slide. It's
a very physical, labor intensive, cost intensive fixture so they took them out in many
neighborhoods...local tennis people again did not appreciate that but they stuck to their guns and
they said no, we're going to put these in banks of 4 courts in community parks. So Bandimere
does, on the plan there tennis court is identified as a single court adjacent to a basketball hard
court, but it's location is terrible as far as parking and access to a tennis court. So I'm not sure
that it would ever be one of those things that we would want to invest our time or money in,
because it simply is not very accessible. But there is space available for it. It's just in back of
ballfield number 3. We have a four bank of tennis courts at the rec center. Four bank at Chan
Elementary. Twin set at South Lotus. Twin set at North Lotus, and then the question came from
David on Roundhouse. Is that a good investment at Roundhouse, and again my response was, the
commission at that time talked about Roundhouse or West Minnewashta...option on the park
master plan, and I' m not sure if it will ever be built, but I think it's in keeping with kind of that
thinking that was set up 10 years ago. Bandimere's the toughest spot. Just physically.
Geographically in that location.
Franks: I just don't see, and maybe I'm driving by at the wrong time but I'm not seeing our
existing tennis courts getting a lot of heavy use.
Hoffman: They're used at the community level for athletics and so high schools utilize the courts
which is good. The rec center, student...I mean it gets utilized.
Marek: Every morning we've got somebody there.
Hoffman: Yeah, it's being used.
Marek: Yeah, it's being used in the morning for lessons and the high school and junior high also.
Middle school.
Hoffman: It's a good plan the way they're built. By putting them at community sites. Lake Ann
gets very little use.
Gregory: Lake Susan gets quite a bit.
Hoffman: Yeah, the other courts are there... It's a convenience factor.
Franks: What makes, I was going to say, what makes those work I think is you can drive right up
to the court and park and get out. And the lights too I think are also a big factor.
Marek: You can park close enough to leave your stereo on in your car.
Franks: Taking that into consideration, it just really doesn't appear that the tennis for sure in
Bandimere really works because it doesn't really fit that location criteria in a way where it's
going to get use, I don't think anyway. The other thing Todd on Bandimere where you have the
hard court on the map, is that where the Phase II play area.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: It's in the same location. You would need to put in a hard court and then Phase II
playground right in that general vicinity, and we're starting to run out of room so, I'm not sure a
hard court would take precedence over the Phase II playground equipment.
Stolar: What is the hard court for?
Hoffman: Hop scotch, four square, those kind of activities.
Franks: Generally speaking to the other question I had, and this comes up at Bandimere too, is
the sand volleyball courts. And I'm just wondering if that's something that's gone the way of the
90' s or if those in these kinds of locations are going to continue to be used.
Hoffman: At the beach they get used. Any other parks we really see very.
Gregory: Very little.
Franks: Even the quality courts that we have at Lake Susan, I mean those are pretty nice sand
volleyball courts. Are those?
Ruegemer: Picnics have a lot of use as well but general type of pick-up kind of volleyball, no.
There' s too many leagues out there at Fletcher' s and other types of places that it' s kind of...
Hoffman: It's cheap. If somebody really wants it, they can stick it just about anywhere.
Gregory: The only thing is gets to be a maintenance problem. We had one...in neighborhood
parks, they just don't get used. We can't get the weeds out of them and all that. They're more of
a pain than they are...
Hoffman: They cost us $500 a year to maintain them.
Franks: And you've got to mow around them.
Gregory: Well the weeds inside...makes it tough.
Franks: Now about the ballfield lighting. What's the status on that?
Hoffman: Well people always ask. Is there going to be lighting at Bandimere and we say yes.
It's in the deeds for the Lundgren properties that there's a disclosure that those fields, those
soccer fields will have lights, and I don't think it needs to happen in the near future. But at some
point this city will run out of land and the kids will keep coming and they'll want the parents and
these people sitting in the audience will want access to more fields and...so you have that ability
here.
Spizale: Lights are expensive.
Franks: Yes they are.
Spizale: Six lights for $500.
Hoffman: Six fields. It's about.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Spizale: Oh 6 fields?
Hoffman: 6 fields. There will be a lot of light standards.
Spizale: That makes more sense.
Stolar: Is there any way with regard to the ballfield lighting, as we do the extension to use the
popularity and utilization to fund these? So for example, putting some reserve set aside from an
entrance fee for an activity to go strictly to the lights? Don't know if we have that capability.
Hoffman: There aren't any entry fees.
Stolar: Clubs don't pay any rentals or anything like that? Okay.
Hoffman: The one way to do it is to...is to go with the cell towers and we could take a look at
that. Have a cell tower at Bandimere with the siren...
Ruegemer: Have the soccer.
Hoffman: Install new lighting with the, put up a cell tower as a part of that, and Bandimere's a
good location for it so that might be an option.
Franks: Were one of you were suggesting something like an assessment for like a, as far as the
activity fees that the participants pay, that the city have like a 50 cent assessment or something
like that for participants and we collect that and put that into a fund for lighting of our fields. Is
that?
Stolar: Well I was thinking if they were paying a rental fee more to set aside than anything else.
But since we don't pay a fee, there's nothing to set aside. And that would just allow those that
use it to pay for it and get utilization out of it.
Atkins: Will there be a fee for using the picnic shelter there when it's there?
Hoffman: For rentals? Sure. The picnic shelter is generally i~ thought of as a place for public
restrooms, gathering point for, we have a lot of tournaments and those type of activities and you
need just a central location so that is known as the location there. It's inbetween the soccer
greens and the other ballfields, softball, baseball fields.
Atkins: What is a ballfield shelter?
Hoffman: A ballfield shelter will go in with a concession space would go in the center. The
wheel of the ballfields. They've got these baseball fields and again a concession central location
for, during tournaments, concession sales. Storage. Someplace you can get out of the weather.
Those type of things.
Atkins: So it's a concessions stand too?
Hoffman: Yeah. There's a location that's been designated there in the center wheel for some
type of building in the future. The other larger building, which is restroom shelter with, it's stated
here with an arm structure that, there's already the sewer and the water, both sewer and water has
been stubbed out to that location. So those utilities are in place.
26
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Well I'd like to see, now no jokes about my liking big ticket items but you know putting
in a park shelter with the restrooms certainly makes Bandimere a prime location for a real solid
tournament play because it provides that kind of base. I'd love to use this park utilized in that
way. Kind of on the scale that we spent so much time creating it for. The similar is also the park
shelter at City Center Park as well. My thinking too is, not that we want to tackle them all at once
but based on the financial information you gave us, while it appears our ability to collect revenues
is still fairly solid, that we really consider going forward with some of these substantial capital
projects while we really have an ability to utilize some of the money coming in to do those.
Hoffman: Please remember as you're going through these, that these are only the parks. Any
trail capital plans that are not, we're not talking about at this time. But in that same breath the
city is, has done very well with trail development in the half a dozen years and there are no large
glaring trail improvements that we see in the immediate horizon. There are some small connector
pieces and there are some larger projects which people would like to see happen. Lyman
Boulevard, east and west. What are some of the other ones? Highway 41, north to south. But
those are slated to occur with road improvements. Lyman Boulevard upgrade and State Highway
41 upgrades so, that's really the trail, we've been pretty blessed within the last...
Franks: So if we can kind of move onto some of the other stuff, but just my personal suggestion
at Bandimere was really look at two projects. In a sense. One would be getting in that Phase II
playground equipment, and then also looking at developing the park shelter.
Stolar: Would we see a valid with pay back...center also to go along with the theme?
Hoffman: It's a service. The cost to put it in and then it's going to be operated by the
associations. It would not be operated by the city and so when they sponsor a tournament they
would sponsor a concessions to help pay off their tournament costs. The city would take a
percentage out of that, but we will never make the money back that we would invest in the
building.
Stolar: Okay.
Franks: I know we had talked about at one point in having one of those concession areas with
machines and the steel roll down door. I don't know, would that be included, something like that
in the park shelter that we talked about building or, kind of a self service concession area.
Hoffman: That'd be a discussion at that time. To go along with that tournament, what makes the
tournament, or what makes it a nice event is when you have people selling concessions and it's
full service. You can go there, and these tournaments, they last all day so you have restrooms.
Someplace to get out of the sun. Someplace to get something to eat, and so those are the things
that people are looking for when they go to a nice facility.
Atkins: And the lights aren't necessarily needed to attract tournaments. Okay.
Hoffman: No.
Franks: Alright let's just, if that's enough on that. Let's move on down. Really the half court
basketball on Bandimere Heights. You know it's a hike up the hill but, if we do a hard, I just
didn't see the, if we do a hard court area in Bandimere Park, and then duplicate something fairly
similar down in Bandimere Heights, I don't know if we want to.
27
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: One or the other.
Franks: One or the other is what I'm saying, right. Not necessarily both, but really one or the
other.
Hoffman: You can see it on the plan on the first sheet. There's a half court basketball.
Franks: The thing you can't really tell from this sheet though is the trail going down, is really
pretty steep. I mean it's a little hike up the hill.
Hoffman: Half court basketball, there's simply a way to introduce hard surface into a green space
which not only accommodates basketball but Big Wheels and all sorts of other things so it's a
nice addition to a neighborhood park setting.
Stolar: Where's that?
Franks: On Bandimere Park still.
Hoffman: Right on the...you can see the neighborhood. Bandimere Park is both a community
and a neighborhood park. The neighborhood park was here before the other park was bought,
right at this location. It was swallowed up by Bandimere Community Park, so we have two parks
in one. The community park and Bandimere Heights Park and that's showing a basketball court
right down in here. Down in the neighborhood. And then the park, the basketball court on top is
shown right here. Next to the tennis court.
Franks: I mean one or the other. Or maybe even go with the hard court area by the play area. I
mean I don't know if you want to combine them all but some kind of plan. I really think just one
of those 3 locations should go in. I don't know if we need, I really believe we don't need all 3 of
them.
Hoffman: Just a couple of the things listed on there to think about it...
Franks: It would help to be able to see it. Alright. Everything's I think pretty straight forward as
far as, unless anybody has any additions to Bluff Creek, Carver Beach.
Hoffman: Just keep flipping plans.
Franks: I have one thing down at Chan Estates. You know what I'm going to say. I'd love to
have some off road access of some sort to that park, so at least it'd be identified as useable.
Hoffman: At Chan Estates.
Franks: Chan Estates. And I don't know whether a curb cut with a couple of parking spots off
Lake Drive. I mean something even as, well I know that's not simple because of the whole
permitting and stuff but.
Hoffman: Do you guys know where this one is? It's the tiny little outlot across from
McDonald's and it was a, what was it? A sewer.
Gregory: Sewer plant.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Hoffman: Sewer plant and when they...the sewer plant, they handed it over to parks and there's a
playground and a half court basketball there today. A row of trees. A park sign, but yeah, you
can't park on Lake Drive. So we would have to create a parking lot.
Atkins: Is there parking for the park?
Franks: No.
Atkins: You can park on the street inside Chan Estates near it?
Franks: No. ~
Hoffman: You have to come off of, you have to walk from McDonald's or come in from the
neighborhood, and those are only formal access points.
Franks: Yeah, I can't imagine there'd be a tremendous amount of use at that park anyway from
anybody that's not aware of the trail from Chan Estates in but, if there'd be a way to get a spot or
two even just, you know offthe street. I don't know if we can do that.
Hoffman: We can, they're going to want to have it so you can pull in, turn around and pull back
out. They won't do a curb cut there on Lake Drive and so, the problem has always been, we're
talking 40 or 50,000 dollars to contribute to this little neighborhood park. This little pocket park.
Franks: Okay. Chan Hills Park, unfortunately was put in before we had the great idea of putting
loop trails in parks.
Hoffman: Trail?
Franks: Yeah, loop trail. It was in the park itself. So I don't know if that's, do we ever have a lot
of extra asphalt to get rid of?. I think that might be a project to put in but maybe an in-house
project. I think for a neighborhood that's one that is used pretty well. The neighborhood's fairly
isolated.
Hoffman: Fairly good access to the park. Is anyone familiar with Cathcart Park and the
arrangements that we have there? Cathcart is in the far northwest comer of the city, and it's
owned by the City of Shorewood, but resides in Chanhassen. It was given to Shorewood by the
Church across the street for a park. Shorewood maintained it and invested in the capital
improvements over all these years, and then Chanhassen grew up around it and our citizens were
utilizing it. The people in Shorewood, the administrative people, the city people approached the
City of Chanhassen to take it over. The final arrangement was that Dale would maintain the
shrubs and trees and the grass in the summer, and Shorewood would continue to be responsible
for the capital improvements. I just want to make you aware of that special arrangement that we
have in that particular park.
Franks: Are we moving onto Chanhassen Nature Preserve? Todd, could you put up on the map,
just to orientate. Do you have like a large map, well maybe this will be good.
Hoffman: Trail map upstairs. The Chanhassen Nature Preserve is being assembled out of a 60
acre donation from Betty O' Shaughnessy and the general configuration is like this. So she
donated that 60 acres. She didn't want her name put on the park and so it was named Chanhassen
29
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002 ,
Nature Preserve given to the park. There's also a concept of turning this into a memorial sites, so
it would be Chan Memorial Park. Really the only amenity is the trail loop system which is going
to be a very nice trail corridor around the exterior. The thought would be to put trail benches and
those type of things and create a...park setting. That was discussed a couple of years ago by the
commission. The other two pieces...are being acquired as a part of the development in this larger
Arboretum Industrial Park, so the city invested all of it's park dedication fees in acquiring this
land and then when these two lots are built, this lot right here and this lot in this location, the
applicant from Chan Business Park, through the development contract with the city, is
responsible for completing the trail. So this trail segment and this trail segment will be built at
the time that these two lots are developed, and that's fairly imminent now with the construction of
the Century BOulevard interchange. So Century will come in and these two lots will then be
highly desirable lots with Highway 5 with the new stop light...this trail system will be completed,
and we'll have, start to get some very nice exposure to what is going to be the largest open space
preserve within the City of Chanhassen that is...owned by the City. It's over 100 acres. Larger
than Lake Ann Park, and larger, much larger than the Fox acquisition which was recently made in
southern Chanhassen. And the trail, I can't recall the last time. It was about a mile loop going
around the entire area of Chan Beach Preserve so. As far as capital improvements, the one area
that we would be looking at is right at this location which is a parking lot for a trail head. And so
we have one neighborhood to the south, and the neighborhood just right off the park boundary
here off of 5 and Galpin, and then a neighborhood off of the east that can utilize this trail just
from their homes, but we feel that a local or regional draw for people who want to drive, park and
then take advantage of this one mile beautiful walk and so we have the, really the obligation as a
commission and the city to provide that trail head and I don't believe we have that listed. Yeah,
it' s listed there.
Franks: What's the difference though between the parking lot and trail head?
Hoffman: One and the same. Trail head would have a gazebo, seating. A kiosk so if you wanted
to get out of your car, then you have a place to gather under a shelter or have a picnic lunch,
something like that so a trail head location and then go off on your walk. Two separate concepts.
Spizale: How many parking spaces?
Hoffman: Probably about 15 to 20. It's a fairly small area if you drive down Coulter Boulevard
and then we located this, it's on a high point right down there, so 20 some parking spaces
probably.
Spizale: You know it's a shame that, if that's going to be developed with some type of
development, the parking lot for the business that was there couldn't be used in coalition with that
business.
Hoffman: This one primarily.
Spizale: Somebody is going to be building a parking lot like they have across the street.
Hoffman: Something we can discuss with the developer. They're always hesitant when you
bring the public into a private setting. This building will be a very nice, probably office building.
Obviously they'll have parking there and then you would get into the conversation of
compensation so we're offering parking at a private facility for public use. We want to discuss
that. Find out the nature of the business, but I can guarantee you a facility like Rosemount would
not want public parking in their facility for security reasons so, but it's a good idea.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Stolar: It's designated corporate industrial setting?
Hoffman: Yeah. Corporate industrial office. It's a nice lot. If you've been out there, this is the
nicest property. Nicest lot here. So it's a nice facility. Something different from what you
traditionally see in the neighborhood or community park settings, and actually in surveys, this is
what people ask for. Once this thing is developed and available to the public and people start to
discover that they can go out and take their family, friends, their dog for a one mile loop around a
very attractive nature preserve which provides wetland habitat, upland habitat, over story oaks,
prairie type, prairie looking habitat, it's going to be a very desirable amenity.
Stolar: What trail's already in there already? The C and D areas?
Hoffman: C and D trails are in. The trail is in the back side of what is called Trotter's and then
the trail comes all the way up this side, so it's about halfway. And we knew if we didn't put
those in when those homes went in, that would never happen. In fact one of the neighbors down
in the area...came in the other day and said, when is that trail, anything going to happen or can
we take it out.
Atkins: Todd, how many acres is the commercial lot? The desirable one.
Hoffman: This lot, oh I'm going to guess right around 5.
Atkins: Would that be a site that potentially could be for the community center?
Hoffman: Yes.
Atkins: Because then what you're saying, and to have a mile path for people to use that site.
Hoffman: It's been identified in the site research.
Stolar: And along those lines, the other thing we did in Eden Prairie was one area, the guy that
worked for the city to get it zoned for more of the entertainment type thing, the restaurants and all
of which case people can enjoy the scenery. There was no trail there but so people could actually
observe and it was the Pickle Parrot. Part of the idea of that was that whole wetland area there is
beautiful but how do we get people to enjoy it? So we try to zone around there so that it attracts
people who would want to do things and community center's a great idea. Along these lines.
Hoffman: This lot here has the availability for restaurant zoning.
Stolar: So it might be something later on we could at least give an opinion to the city and say, be
help to utilize this area then. And maybe allow us to use the parking.
Hoffman: This lot sits up very high and access down to the trail system is difficult. This is up on
a hill. This is down below with the trail down below...whereas this lot here is, in relatively close
proximity and it has a trail right in front of it that runs down into this location. And then as you
take a parking lot and you make a direct access to this trail, it starts to have some very good
access. It's an exciting project. We've just been in a waiting mode. Waiting for those lots to
develop because the city's development contract is binding that developer to build those trails.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: It just seems a little premature really to put in something like a trail head or a parking lot
into a system that's really not usable for that yet.
Hoffman: We'll just bump them out to 2004-2005.
Franks: Do that. Thanks. The other thing too when you look at the observation points, we might
want to consider too doing them in a staging process, unless that's not cost effective in any way
but really getting one in. Get people using the park. Have some understanding that they're really
using it and then maybe add in 2 and 3. Alright, great. Rec Center. One thing that I see as really
may be taking a serious look at BMX on one of the inline skating rinks.
Hoffman: That's a good idea.
O'Shea: And is there room to add any more cardiovascular equipment?
Franks: We're talking not inside the rec center but we're really talking about the park. Rec
Center park, but that's a good question. We're about maxed in our workout space right now. We
probably need some more space. But I think the idea of getting that, using that inline skating
rink, that's just had a great surface. Getting some use out of it and finding a good geographic
separation between the skaters and the bikers I think would be a nice way to get both of those in
the city. Without much conflict.
Hoffman: Good idea .... come up with a budget for the ramps and include that in a future
tabulation.
Franks: Anything else on the Chanhassen Recreation Center Park? Well then City Center Park.
Stolar: Didn't we talk about at the senior gardens, given what they're doing with some of the
commons areas, to maybe hold off on that to see how that goes and whether it meets the need.
O'Shea: Is the skate park considered in this park?
Hoffman: ...I agree with you.
O'Shea: And you know I know, I wasn't on the commission when you talked about this, and I
brought it up before but looking at trying to produce revenue is key, and I know it was originally
funded through tax dollars. I did some research on existing parks and from the middle of July to
October, by just charging a nominal fee in White Bear, they raised between $40,000 and $45,000
net, and then they're earmarking that money and they're hoping to dome the area and then they'd
have a year round program. That I thought possibly that might find out the feeling of the people
that live in Chanhassen, but I think more people don't use the park than do, even though it's our
most heavily used, that I think they'd rather see it not as a tax drain year after year. That maybe
we could at a future time look at how we could make that a revenue generating program and then
that money that's generated would go to improve a dome and I think they said their staffing, it's
one of the easiest program areas to staff. You know again I don't know from city to city if that
follows what they've experienced but I think that's when we're looking at funds being less and
less, that area I think we shouldn't just pass over. That we maybe should look at it a little closer
to see if that could be a generating, revenue generating area. Because I do think we really need to
continue to enhance that area. And also look at the problems with behavior out there too and how
can we control that and make it a state of the art park.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: I have in 2002 Todd, money was designated for the skate park.
Hoffman: Yes. Utilized it on fencing and the shelter and then we were going to attempt, or
wanted to add another ramp but the additional fencing enclosing it all the way around used up the
dollars and the landscaping. The stairway and the shelter.
Franks: So to, we're looking at what, about a $15,000 investment to buy equipment of
substance?
Hoffman: 15 to 20, and I think we're going to shift away from all wood and go to the newer
ramps which are metal and then they have the composite material, the plastic and the skate light
on the surface. Just for longevity. The skate park has proven itself, we might as well buy the
good stuff at this point.
Franks: Yeah. I like the idea of, boy you know if we, doming it. If we had that field house as a
part of any kind of rec center development and to set aside possible portions of that for year round
skating park use, since we have the equipment and it just sits underneath the snow during the
winter anyway, that would be an interesting use of that equipment. But part of my feeling on
revenue generation is if we're offering something that's special, which would be more I think
than what type of level.
Hoffman: Tier I.
Franks: Tier I. If we go above Tier I, then I think we're offering something that's above and
beyond just you know, walk up off the street recreation. We could consider.
Hoffman: Tier I is 3 feet and below. Tier II is the big stuff. The 9 foot ramps and hook and what
do you call it, underpass which is in Hopkins.
Franks: Is it something that we should continue to look at.
Hoffman: Maybe the discussions about charging and should it be built with park dedication
money, that discussion took place at the commission. In Chaska they said if you want to build
this, you're going to have to raise your own money. And a commission at the time felt very
strongly that no, we pay for playgrounds. We pay for ballfields. We pay for soccer fields. This
is a use which is targeting a section of our citizens that we've been ignoring. We're going to pay
for their park and we're going to build it for them and we're going to let them use it. So then to
say now we're going to charge those people is again, you know it's a philosophical thing. Well
then should we charge to use a ballfield or a soccer field? So it starts getting back into that. It
would be a great avenue. We've got it fenced. It's very easy to go ahead and make money there,
but it's that philosophical notion of now simply because we can, should we? Or should we again
allow that to be free to the public and you're going to make money out of non-resident people
right now, it' s probably half of the people that are not from Chanhassen that utilize that facility.
So that's a good way to cash revenue. A good way to look at it. But then the other kids that are
Chanhassen residents, should you go ahead and charge them for a facility where you generally
provide all other recreation facilities for kids.
O'Shea: One thing you could do though, this gets a little chippy, with that and I thought of that.
How can you get around that? If you domed it, you know took out a 10 year bond from the city,
you dome it, then you say to those people you get in free during the summer, but Chanhassen
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
residents but everybody else pays. That's just one way you could possibly avoid the
philosophical fight but.
Franks: Ithink it's something that we need to continue to look at and consider. It's an issue I
think that's in process as the city evolves and the needs for recreation and finances evolve too so,
but I think in the near term we really, as you're saying, need to continue to expand the facilities
there regardless of what we choose to do with looking at generating revenue.
Stolar: Mr. Chairman?
Franks: Yes.
Stolar: Quick question. Do we, I apologize. I probably will have to leave soon because I have
an early flight tomorrow morning. I did postpone mine until first thing in the morning, but I
know that there are a couple of other items that David had brought up, just high level. If we can
just plow through some of those and see if anyone has anything very specific that they want to
hit.
Franks: We can sure do that.
Hoffman: Do you have a copy of those? A copy of David' s comments?
Franks: Out in my briefcase but not here.
Hoffman: I've got them.
Stolar: I think talked about Kerber Pond. Didn't think the signage was, thought that was a luxury.
Push it out. And I would agree.
Franks: I would agree as well.
Stolar: And I think in general we' ve made a statement that the sand volleyball courts in general
would be on a as requested basis.
Hoffman: He had a question about the Lake Ann Park road. Lake Ann Park road is in terrible
condition. It does not represent the city in a good light based upon the quality of that park that we
have in our city. The road just drags it down. Dave wanted to hold off until we just had this
conversation about the high school or community center, and that's a good thought, but half of
the park really cannot be utilized for those type of facilities unless you buy another Lake Ann
Park somewhere else in the city to replace it because those lands were purchased with federal
LAWCON dollars. So there's Lake Ann, the lake on the north side, and the...part of the south.
This portion of Lake Ann Park was all purchased with federal dollars. LAWCON grant money,
so you have access through this parcel of park which was purchased using just general city tax
dollars. Actually a referendum. This part you can use, it's wide open for community use or
change in the use. You could take out these ballfields and put in a community center. Take out
these ballfields and put them in as part of a high school, but if you want to utilize this plan, at
least how I understand it today, I do not believe a school or a community center would meet the
intent of the LAWCON legislation that was used to purchase the property. And this is the old
road needs replacement. It's 30 years old and it needs a full replacement or overlay.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Stolar: I guess to me, this is a fairly straight forward question and I thought the consensus here
was, that's not a use of park trail fees, but that we do believe, and I don't know how we want to
bring it up at a future meeting, that the city should fix it because it is our showcase park.
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: And I'd be willing to.
Hoffman: ...philosophy.
Stolar: Right, and I think I'd be willing to make some sort of statement in a future meeting,
maybe our next meeting, to that effect. Take it off our list as we've done, but make a statement to
the city that we believe that, like any other road that needs maintenance, this road needs
maintenance and it's one that's a showcase.
Hoffman: There's other items where the Kerber Pond Park, $10,000 for interpretative signs. My
reply was, we have about $100,000 worth of interpretative signage down the road at the
Arboretum. At the Arboretum, if people want interpretation they can go to the Arboretum. It
would be a nightmare for us to maintain and we do not have the expertise in-house to produce
interpretative signage so we would be out consulting for that. Roundhouse Park, he talked about
the round house. Again in it's park master plan has a hockey/in-line and then an ice rink all in the
one similar to North Lotus Park or the rec center or here at City Center, where you put hockey
boards up with asphalt and lights, so you can use it in summer and winter. We have not
experienced the summer use on those rinks that we thought we would see, and so David is talking
about that. Should we one, put in the hockey rink there? Should we two, put in asphalt for
summer use, and then put in lights? Again, the neighborhood is not knocking our doors down
and so I really don't think we need to program it because it's just on the park master plan but
nobody's asking for it at the present. And then he talked about the tennis courts at Roundhouse
and you've already had that conversation.
Stolar: And sand volleyball and playground Phase II, we talked about here...
Franks: We're like minded on a lot of these issues as far as how we want to develop these parks
out. Glenn, I know that you're pushed for time so if you want to run through anything more on
your list.
Stolar: No, I just wanted to confirm some of these statements that Dave said. I mean I guess
philosophically in summary right, I think Phase II playgrounds ought to be focused on the
community parks where it helps to enhance their utilization. Sand volleyball courts, and I'm a
huge sand volleyball court, volleyball player, but they aren't getting use and they may be going
by the wayside. Community park tennis courts, I think the same thing. As long as, or I'm sorry,
neighborhood park. Unless there's a demand for those that's specific to that neighborhood,
probably shouldn't be a part of the master plan, deferred indefinitely. I mean we've got to focus
because we don't have a lot of money. And Lake Ann Park, I just think the road there really
doesn't belong in this discussion.
Hoffman: And it's not.
Stolar: And it's not, it was taken off, but I do think we need to make a statement as the Parks and
Rec Commission about how that is a part of how this park looks and in the city' s planning of road
repairs, that they should consider that.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: I would agree. For the purposes of getting through our CIP, I'd like to set that issue as a
separate issue and...
Stolar: Yes, absolutely.
Franks: Take it out of here now.
Stolar: ...future meeting, talk about it as a separate motion of recommendation. I think we said,
in our working session with the City Council we were going to maybe talk about it.
Franks: I think that'd be an excellent place to bring that up.
Hoffman: Do you guys have that on your calendar? I think it's September 30th. Is the joint
meeting with the City Council. September 30m I believe. That's the date that the council has set
up. Monday, September 30m, joint meeting with the City Council and Park and Rec Commission.
And you will be setting the discussion points for that meeting and we'll do that at your July
agenda. They generally have an hour with the commission and council that night. I'll just mark
that as one of the issues.
Franks: And Phase II in neighborhood parks, just to kind of go back a little bit, on a case by case
basis if the demand rises up for it.
Stolar: Yep, but I do support and I guess if we have to, and I know we aren't prioritizing here but
in the brainstorming I think if we see other things that help utilize community parks, that we think
are proactive, I would be in favor of those types of things. Whereas the...utilization, whereas the
neighborhood parks, responsive yeah. That's a good way to put it.
Franks: Great. Do you just want to take it from here too? Make sure we get all your comments
in about any of the other parks.
Stolar: Well the other ones, I mean and using those philosophies there's several of these that then
I think we keep pushing out. There's Sugarbush Park and Prairie Knoll, and again I'm assuming
these are all additional play areas.
Hoffman: Yep.
Stolar: Not that they don't have one and not that their's is in disrepair. So all of those, North
Lotus Lake, which is my neighborhood park, push sand volleyball courts out. Play on grass if we
need to.
Franks: And you can rent the volleyball nets from.
Stolar: Oh I have the nets, don't worry. I have all the equipment.
Franks: Alright.
Stolar: Thank you and I apologize for having to book out.
Hoffman: Where are you going tomorrow?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Stolar: Where am I going? Hartford.
Hoffman: Have a good flight.
Franks: Thank you Glenn.
Stolar: Thank you.
Hoffman: Thanks for making the accommodations for being here tonight. We appreciate that.
Franks: I'd just like to back up a little bit then to Herman Field Park. I don't really am not in
favor of any immediate improvements as far as facilities in that park at this point. Until we can
really come up with a solid plan of what we want to do with Herman Field.
Hoffman: It's been put on hold.
Franks: Way on hold, yep. And the overlook area on Kerber Pond Park.
Hoffman: Have you seen it?
Franks: No.
Hoffman: Kerber Pond Park.
Franks: I mean I've seen it on the drawing, but it's hard for me to, and the point of that?
Hoffman: Same point as pulling off at, well just having access to it. You can park on the street,
but they don't feel comfortable.
Atkins: It's pretty dangerous.
Hoffman: Yeah, so this is like a wayside rest.
Franks: Well that was my thought. I thought well, you can park there.
Atkins: You don't want to get out of the car though.
Franks: Alright. If it was there, would people be pulling off accessing the trail do you think?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: Alright. The mowed grass trail at Pheasant Hill Park again, you know we're not doing
that now are we? We're not mowing that trail at Pheasant Hill.
Hoffman: Nope.
Franks: Is that the one that runs along where the high line? No, that's not.
Hoffman: This is like a nature trail. We've got to clear and grub it and clean it up.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: See those are the types of things that I see that we can add at later dates when we're
really improved out our parks to the max. And then really look, well what's the one more thing
we can add.
Hoffman: Or a Boy Scout project.
Franks: Or a Boy Scout project, sure.
Hoffman: Whoever comes in to do a community project.
Franks: Again, same thing hockey rinks, tennis court. We've talked about that already.
Roundhouse Park. The one thing that's not in here is the round house restoration but we're
hoping that the volunteer committee continues their work in that direction.
Hoffman: Yeah, it's presently a committed project.
Franks: And Lake Susan Park. The one thing that we might want to consider at some point in the
future is really making the kind of beach that's developed there a real beach. Between the trail
and the lake. From the canoe rack, I don't know, down...so that's something we might want to
take a look at sometime this summer too.
Hoffman: We can just do that.
Franks: We can do that just like that?
Hoffman: Just like that.
Franks: Just us cutting out the grass and putting the sand in, letting it wash out.
Hoffman: That's it.
Franks: That method.
Hoffman: Just a site visit and the park commission and you're there to see it happen and I'll
check with the wetland regulations which we own a mile of shoreline so we can develop it. Buy
ourselves a permit and do it.
Franks: It just seems that's the one piece that's missing from that park. It has everything else.
Boat, dock, shelter, play equipment, tennis courts, ballfields, everything except it's right there on
a lake and there's no usable beach.
Hoffman: ...my one hesitancy is it's kind of like inviting over the neighbors to, and you don't
have the house, the house doesn't fit the neighbors because quite frankly Lake Susan isn't always
fit for swimming. So you build in a nice beach and then you're inviting people to come to a
beach and the next thing you're going to hear is, why did they put that beach in at Lake Susan?
That water stinks and do something about the water or take the beach out.
Franks: Well we did do something about it though. We did our alum treatment and we're doing
our wetland and shoreline restorations.
Hoffman: We're working on it but Lake Susan will never be a Lake Ann. I swam there once.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Mostly what we're seeing I think are the kids going in, little bits here and there and
splashing around but.
Hoffman: Let's take a swim some night Rod. Check it out.
Franks: Out in the middle of the lake I will.
Hoffman: No. We have to, we need to walk in right out of the weeds. See how far the mud
squishes between our toes.
Franks: Well that's what we want to get rid of. And the warming house at Sunset Ridge I think
is off the map too. Off the map. So do you have all those comments?
Hoffman: I do.
Franks: And do you want to take those and put them down on a projection?
Hoffman: Yep. A 5 year projection.
Franks: A 5 year projection for us.
Hoffman: And some staff recommendations and you'll...continue to move forward on it.
Franks: Alright, we didn't talk about all the things like trash receptacles and plantings and trees
and stuff like that so we'll just count on you to add those in.
FINAL DRAFT~ CHANHASSEN COMMUNITY CENTER~ REQUEST FOR
INFORMATION.
Hoffman: Included that for information only.
Franks: Appreciate that.
Hoffman: It was the organizations. The council did make a point of pulling this off a consent
agenda last night and adding in, I believe it was Glenn's comment about experience and so that
has been added in and once we obtain all the addresses, this will be mailed early part of next
week.
Franks: Thanks for your work on that Todd. You did a nice job of summarizing everything we
talked about.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Franks: Anybody have any comment regarding the administrative packet? One from me is Todd,
on the taking it to the streets, clean up Chanhassen. I missed the promotion for that.
Hoffman: Missed the promotion?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 25, 2002
Franks: Yes.
Hoffman: It's.coming up.
Franks: Oh, it's coming up. I know but obviously people are already signing up andgetting
ready to go.
Hoffman: This is a project by Westwood and Dean Swanson came in to see me and it's during
the PGA when Westwood gets kicked out of the high school and then Westwood is meeting at
the soccer field at Instant Webb and Dean is coordinating this part of the project where his
church, he takes a dozen families and they go out and they clean up parks. We give them maps
and he's all set and ready to go so it's something that Westwood is doing. I'm not doing it.
They're doing it.
Franks: They're doing it, okay.
Hoffman: It's their project. And we had a second one from St. Hubert Church where Janelle, I
can't remember her last name. Hieckel is coordinating students and they're going to clean up 6
parks in the month of June and July and so again, give them park maps. Trash bags, a little letter
of thanks and out they're going to clean our parks and trails so.
Franks: And this happens, they're contacting you to get this set up?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: This is not something that you're promoting as a program?
Hoffman: No. We get this 3 to 4 times a year where community groups want to do volunteer
work and they contact us.
Franks: Gmat. I love hearing it. Alright, seeing no other comments on the administrative packet
is them a motion to adjourn?
Spizale moved, Atkins seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carried. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
40