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CC Minutes 11-14-2011Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 opt out’s. Myself and some of the other council members on, that represent the opt out’s. We’ll be working together just to get, disseminate some of the information and to work together to get some of that together so yes, we are doing something on that. We are not just sitting there on our hands. Councilman McDonald: Well I would certainly invite you to come to one of the board meetings, especially for Southwest Transit and talk to the board members and get the perspective from that viewpoint as to you know where we’re at as far as transit and what the Met Council could do to help. Gary Van Eyll: Yes, I have gone to a couple of their board meetings and heard their perspective, let’s put it that way. Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you. Gary Van Eyll: You’re welcome. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Gary Van Eyll: You’re very welcome. I do have some cards here. I’ll pass them down to Councilmember McDonald, if he could pass them out there. My number’s on there. If you have anything, give me a call. Thank you very much. Mayor Furlong: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to address the council under visitor presentations this evening? If not then we’ll move on to items on our agenda this evening. NOWLING VARIANCE APPEAL: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO CONSTRUCT A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, 6829 YUMA DRIVE, APPLICANT: PETER & TRICIA NOWLING. Mayor Furlong: This was actually, was at the Planning Commission and as I understand it was approved but it has been appealed. The approval has been appealed to the City Council. What I’d like to do this evening is start with a staff report to give the council background and then invite the individual that is appealing the Planning Commission’s decision to come forward and address the council on matters of concern and then to the extent that the applicants, the Nowling’s are here, they may want to present or staff may have some, be able to answer some questions, if that makes sense to everybody. So Ms. Aanenson, let’s start with the staff report please. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. As you indicated this is a request by the applicant for variances to allow the construction of a single family home on a non-conforming lot. This is a lot of record which is zoned residential single family. A traditional single family residential lot is 15,000 square feet. This lot is 8,936 feet but it is a lot of record and it does have, can apply for reasonable use of the property. This item did appear before the Planning Commission for a public hearing th on October 18, as you indicated. I think there was some confusion. The Chairman did introduce the item. Asked for a public hearing. I think there was some confusion of when someone was supposed to get up, but the Planning Commission did vote 6 to 0 to approve the variance request. So I think the neighbors felt that they weren’t able to be heard, therefore the process is to appeal the request which they did in a timely manner and that is why this item is before you tonight. To appeal the decision. Anybody aggrieved of a decision. So with that, again the request is for the side yard variance, a rear yard. Let’s see. I’m sorry. The request is for a 18 foot setback on Yuma. It’s a three cornered lot, which also is a little bit different. A proposed setback of 9 feet off of Ringo and then from the southern property line, a drainage swale and easement from the back which does meet the setback so it’s on the Yuma Drive and the Ringo Drive that it needs the setback variances. So again Carver Beach has a lot of different lot configuration because the lots that were created a number of years ago were very small. So they were 7 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 some with a lot of different matter so while the standard lot created today would be 15,000 square feet, back in 1927 when a lot of these lots were created there’s just a minutia of all different types of lots. So this lot was assembled with about 5 different lots added to it to create the lot of record that it is today. The 8,936 square feet. In looking at the subdivision when, or excuse me for the variance when this came in it was noted that there’s drainage on the lot. When the applicants, the Nowling’s first came in it was believed that they only needed a variance on one street side and so in looking at that and actually doing a site visit, it was determined that there’s a drainage swale on the back of the lot and you can see the pictures here. Existing drainage swale. Therefore the lot had to be pushed forward more and because it had to be pushed forward more from this original plan, I’m going to go back to this slide. You can see the drainage swale then in here. It required additional variance. And that was through no fault of their own of the drainage swale being on the site. So with that, going through that with the Planning Commission, so you can see the original proposal showing the drainage. So this would have been the only variance requested. Considering it was a small lot, they met the standards of the minimum home size. It only needed the one variance on the three cornered lot. Because there’s three corners, each would need the 30 foot setback. Now we measure these also from the eaves. We don’t take them from the foundation so any overhang would also be included in the required setback, but because of the drainage swale the engineering department wanted the house pushed forward so it required that additional drainage. Excuse me, additional setback variance. So with that, and the ability for the applicant to put additional berming there to control the runoff would be what the condition that was added through the staff that the Planning Commission concurred with. Staff felt that this was a reasonable request based on the lot of record of that size and a reasonable sized home on that lot. So a condition was that the drainage, there’d be 3 feet of separation. So the applicant did work to revise their plans and based on the original proposal to meet that. The 3 foot separation and constructing a berm on the south of the property to protect the neighboring property, and then also provided drainage easement over that property so they’ve agreed to all those conditions. So with that, the Planning Commission did recommend approval of the variances subject to the conditions in the staff report and they did approve that. So with that, because it’s being appealed, we’d also recommend that the City Council concur with those recommendations. Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any questions for staff at this time? Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Yes, I’ve got a question. Within that neighborhood are there problems with setbacks of houses? Have we given variances to other properties there? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Throughout Carver Beach, yes. There’s been a number of variances throughout Carver Beach. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council just to kind of add to that. Carver Beach is one of our older neighborhoods and I think Kate showed the photo of the smaller lots and Roger will tell you that once you have a lot of record, you have to work with that property owner to make it buildable and in some cases you’re limited in what you can do and you have to grant a variance. I know we’ve worked with the property owner on this one from a variety of different ways to try to get them to comply with all the setbacks but you still have to have a structure that is livable and has some marketability to it so this is the best that we could come up with. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, any other questions at this time? Councilwoman Ernst, did you have questions? 8 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Councilwoman Ernst: Kate, when we’re talking about the separation of 3 feet, for the water drainage, how, so how far up to the property line does that, is it 3 feet that it has to come up to the property line? How do we make sure that it doesn’t exceed the 3 feet? Kate Aanenson: Well it’s a standard condition we have in our, our ordinance says it’s the lowest living area has to be a 3 foot separation. That would be between a wetland or a lake or. Councilman Laufenburger: Is it a vertical separation? Mayor Furlong: It’s a vertical separation. Are you asking about horizontal to the property line? Councilwoman Ernst: I’m talking about the drain path that comes down next to the property line. SO I’m assuming that that’s what we’re talking about here, right? Todd Gerhardt: No. Councilwoman Ernst: No. Kate Aanenson: No. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, so what is that one then? Is that 2 feet or is it 3 feet? Where the drainage path comes close to the property. Kate Aanenson: I can ask the City Engineer but it looks like it’s approximately 10 feet would be the separation from the rear of the house to where the drainage swale would be. Mayor Furlong: Are you asking to the property line? Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah. Kate Aanenson: Oh. Mayor Furlong: I mean doesn’t a drainage easement goes to the property line generally doesn’t it? Kate Aanenson: Yeah. This is the house setback here. This was originally 10 feet. The house shown on here, the only variance would have been off of the Ringo setback so this met it. This is 10 feet so it’s probably 3 times so it’s probably 30 feet now from the rear of the property line. Is that your question? Councilwoman Ernst: Not from the rear of the property line but where it parallels the property line. Mayor Furlong: You’re talking about the drainage path. She’s asking about the drainage path. What would be the drainage easement on the south property line? How close will the drainage easement go to the south property line? Councilwoman Ernst: Right. Mayor Furlong: I think it goes to the property line, doesn’t it? Kate Aanenson: Yeah, it’s pretty much in the same place it is today. Which would be on that aerial, this is the neighboring property to the south and then this is in a ways. The current culvert. You can’t see the 9 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 property line on this picture. This is the culvert. This is the neighboring property line so it’s in this area over here so. Mayor Furlong: Can you point out the culvert on the picture on the right? Yeah, I see the one on the left. Is it right there on the left side of the picture on the right? Kate Aanenson: It’s hard to see with the trees. Councilwoman Ernst: It looks like it’s right here. Kate Aanenson: I think it might be easier just to kind of go to maybe in this area here where it’s coming through. Councilman Laufenburger: Who’s recommendation was it that the proposed building footprint be moved to the north? Kate Aanenson: The city engineering department. Councilman Laufenburger: And for what reason? Paul Oehme: Mr. Mayor, City Council members. The proposed building shift is to accommodate the proposed future drainage along the south side of the new structure. The drainage pattern more or less follows it’s current location of the proposed drainage route. We wanted to try to maintain that as best as we can. We’ve looked at other options. Sheet draining the water down Ringo Drive. Bring the water up to the north and down Yuma. We looked at several different options and nothing seemed to work except for leaving the drainage consistent where it is today and trying to shift the structure north to create some separation between that drainage and the new structure. Councilman Laufenburger: So if I read this correctly the elevation at the beginning of the drain along Ringo Drive is 992.5 and the elevation where it exits the property on the southwest corner by Yuma is approximately 987. So you’ve got 5 feet of drainage there and you didn’t want a house getting in the way of whatever water might. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Is that really what you’re doing? Paul Oehme: Try to separate that. Councilman Laufenburger: So you’re taking the house out of the river. Paul Oehme: Correct. Councilwoman Ernst: Excuse me, but if I could go back to my question that I’m still not clear on how far that comes up to the property line. The drainage path. Paul Oehme: The drainage path? Well if you look at the south, the proposed house where it’s currently proposed, it’s approximately 28 feet from the south property line there. The drainage path is roughly right in the middle of that so you know 14 feet. Mayor Furlong: To the. 10 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Paul Oehme: From the proposed house to the drainage swale. Councilwoman Ernst: Right. Paul Oehme: It’s about 14 feet from that south property. Mayor Furlong: Does it follow the red arrows on this picture? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Paul Oehme: Correct, yes. Just follow the red arrows. Councilwoman Ernst: So next to the property line that’s next to this development is how many feet from that drainage? Paul Oehme: Yep, from the property line to where the swale’s proposed is about 14 feet. Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah, I can’t see the footage though on how. Kate Aanenson: Let me just back up. Currently this is how the property is draining. So nothing’s changing on that. Mayor Furlong: What are, what views? What’s the direction we’re looking at with those views? Kate Aanenson: So this is the current, this is the current culvert right now. It’s not being moved. This is how the water runs right now. It runs in the same place. Until we went out and physically observed it, we walk every variance. Go out and observe it. Then we say well the house has to be moved out of that drainage swale so the drainage swale is still in the same location. The house is now being pushed forward out of, so an additional variance to push it, to create the separation between the current drainage. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay so I was out and looked at the property as well so where that property, so where that drainage is today is where it’s going to stay, right? That drainage path. Paul Oehme: Approximately. Kate Aanenson: Approximately. Paul Oehme: The drainage pattern approximately is going to stay in it’s current location. Councilwoman Ernst: And how do we make sure that that doesn’t change? Paul Oehme: We’ve tried to put in as many safeguards into the design as we can. The biggest improvement that we’re proposing under this design is to create a berm on that south property line. Under the new proposal it’s about 3 to 4 feet higher than the structure to the south there so channelizing that water away from that structure. Creating a berm there to make sure the water moves as quickly and efficiently to the east, or to the west as possible and not impacting the, that south property. Kate Aanenson: And if I may, there’s one other safeguard. With every building permit, then before they get the occupancy they would also have to submit the as-built survey and that’s something that engineering would review so they have to shoot the grades and demonstrate that they’ve met the 11 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 requirements of that and so that is, they’ve put security down for that to make sure that they design and finish it as per plan. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Kate Aanenson: So that is a requirement too. Test that check. Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you. Another question I have is the setback. So when we’re talking about these small setbacks like this from 30 feet to 12 feet. I actually, I saw in here that they’re considering Ringo Drive to not be a public road. But when I was out observing this site I noticed there were multiple cars that were using that road as a public road. So I’m just curious is there, why is not considered a public road? Kate Aanenson: The setbacks are being measured back from a public street. It’s not an improved street so. Mayor Furlong: I thought I saw in the staff report, is it public right-of-way? Kate Aanenson: It’s public right-of-way but it’s not an improved street. People are using it as a private, kind of you know access but it’s not an improved public street. It is a public, it is a right-of-way. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council we’ve talked about gating it off and the neighborhood has used it as an access route in the past. It’s not improved. It’s city right-of-way. We monitor it so nobody stores or makes improvements into the right-of-way and, but I’m not surprised if you saw people using it. They kind of use it as a rear access, an alley and most of the homes have been designed and laid out as if it was a public street so, that’s how we used it. We have no plans in the near future to upgrade it but there’s also no desire to see it being vacated either. Councilwoman Ernst: Does that mean that the residents that have Ringo Drive as an address then, that their address would change if that’s ever gated off? Todd Gerhardt: No. Councilwoman Ernst: Just because the road is there and not being used doesn’t mean it can’t have an address with that I assume. Todd Gerhardt: We have no plans of gating it. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: People have requested that it be gated. Councilwoman Ernst: With this setback then and we talk about this part of Chanhassen being an area where we have concerns for water runoff, with this kind of a setback it concerns me that we’re opening it out for more of that to happen because this lot is fairly close to the lake and so I guess I’ve just never seen one come through where we’re asking for that much of a variance. Kate Aanenson: Well actually the only variance they’re asking, but for the fact that there was a drainage swale there, they only needed the one but because we asked them to move the house forward, based on the fact that they met our standards for a 2 car garage and met our minimum lot size, the only other 12 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 variance they needed was the front yard. Excuse me, the setback on the two side streets. Otherwise they would have only needed the one so. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council, another point of reference on this that you should be aware of is that there is not a drainage easement over this lot so right now the water is draining across a private individual’s lot and you know with this variance and development we’re making the situation much better by directing the water off of the existing home and following a swale between the existing home and the new home. But right now that property owner, you know I don’t want to give him any advice. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Any other questions? Councilwoman Ernst: No. Councilman Laufenburger: Just one. The picture of the culvert, can you go to that? Okay, on the left. Now can you go back one slide and show us where is that culvert located right now. Kate Aanenson: It’s right here. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: This is the culvert coming through. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, go back to the picture then. In this picture on the right, is that the southerly property line? Kate Aanenson: That would be the. Mayor Furlong: Which direction are we looking on that picture on the right? Kate Aanenson: Isn’t that on the east side. Councilman Laufenburger: So the picture is taking in a northwesterly direction, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Right, yeah. Mayor Furlong: Along Ringo? Kate Aanenson: Well we’d be facing Ringo because it’s coming off… Mayor Furlong: I’m talking the picture on the, Ringo would be behind the bushes. On the right side, the picture on the right. Todd Gerhardt: The person taking the picture is from Yuma. Councilwoman Ernst: Right. Todd Gerhardt: And looking up the property line to Ringo. Councilman Laufenburger: In a east, northeast direction. 13 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Todd Gerhardt: Yes. You can see the existing home to the right. If you click back Kate, there’s the existing home with the trailer so it’s draining and heading east. Councilman Laufenburger: So Ringo is, in that picture on the right, Ringo is off in the distance. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, behind those two trees behind the trailer. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, got it. Mayor Furlong: Any other questions for staff? At this time. Okay. I’m sorry, did you have one? Councilman Laufenburger: I’m just having a hard time picturing that culvert is Ringo because Councilwoman Ernst says that Ringo is a drive, then there’s public use on there and on top of that culvert there’s trees. Councilwoman Ernst: Well it’s actually not on top of it. It’s like behind it. Kate Aanenson: So here’s the lot as it sits. So this is what we’re talking about coming through. Todd Gerhardt: The culvert is underneath the dirt and then it outlets onto the lot. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, well. Kate Aanenson: So you can see here this is a 40 foot right-of-way unimproved. Councilman Laufenburger: Yep. Yep. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Mr. Bob Moore was the gentleman that filed the appeal if I’m correct with that. Is he here or his representative like to address the council? Good evening. Bob Moore: Good evening. I’m Bob Moore at 6839 Yuma Drive. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Bob Moore: That’s right? Mayor Furlong: Well. Bob Moore: Well you said you have to address, what you have to say who you are… Mayor Furlong: Yes, and thank you for name and address. Perfect. Thank you. Bob Moore: Well you answered a lot of the questions and, but if you look at the picture where you see the drainage way and you see the trailer. Mayor Furlong: Let’s go to that if we can Ms. Aanenson. Bob Moore: I will explain that to you real quick. See the drainage way there where the water comes out. Mayor Furlong: You’re on the left picture? 14 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Bob Moore: The property line is to the right about 8-10 feet. Somewhere in there. I don’t have the exact measurement. So that’s my property line. That’s my trailer. To the south of that which would be to your right about 8-10 feet. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Bob Moore: And it goes up and then it angles over to that culvert. Where it goes up and sort of stops and then it angles over to the culvert and the culvert comes through, there’s some trees and directly on the side of the trees is where the road is. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Bob Moore: Where those trees are so that comes about 3 feet or so in from the road. I’m guessing about where the road ends. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Good. Okay, good. Bob Moore: If that helps you out a little bit on that part. Mayor Furlong: That does. I guess I’d be interested, and I’m sure the council would be too, in terms of the basis for your appeal of the Planning Commission’s decision. If you’d like to address the council on those factors now as well. Bob Moore: Yeah. The question I have is, is when is it, when you request a variance, when is it too close to build a house to the road because that is like a city street because you plow it and maintain it and I’ve always thought it was a city street. And they say it’s not sort of a city street. I sort of don’t know what it is. What is in a city street and when I take a look and says you want to put a house 9 feet from a street, the front of the house from one street is very small. The other street there, the other side is only, you’re talking 9 foot variance and the one 18 feet from the front. The house is right next to the road in the front. Very little front yard. Very little back yard and the south side where the drainage is, it says in the thing here that the City’s going to, said they had to have, have to give a 15 foot, what’s the word? I’ve got it written, kind of highlighted here. Easement. Mayor Furlong: Easement. Drainage easement, yep. Bob Moore: To maintain that waterway so basically from my property line, 15 feet north, that nothing could be ever put into there. That makes even the lot even smaller. You really don’t have any yard to speak of, and I question 9 feet from the city street. That’s pretty close for a house. Now I have no problems, you know the front variance is 18 feet. That’s closer, other houses in the neighborhood they’re closer to the roads but when you start talking 9 feet, you know what is the City Council’s policy on or feeling on that? Do you feel that this area is exempt from all the rules? I mean there are parts of the city you don’t give variance to. You don’t let them build within that feet. My neighbor across the street wanted to build a deck and wanted to encroach just a little bit into the 30 feet in the front and he says zero inches. You can’t encroach so he had to angle the deck. So that was what my big question and the water drainage you’ve been discussing. Mayor Furlong: Okay. 15 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Bob Moore: So there’s not much more and I’m very concerned about the water being, you know right now I don’t have any water problems. Never have. I have a sump pool in my house and over 30 plus years we’ve never had a drop of water. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Bob Moore: So I’m concerned about the water, that they’re plus on the side of my garage there if it does drain into that drainage ditch from the side of the garage and that little back area comes down. Mayor Furlong: It goes north to the drainage ditch? Bob Moore: Yep. Yep. That whole area there does drain. Now you’re going to put a berm there, you know how you going to berm and put the water through? Mayor Furlong: Okay. Bob Moore: So I’m very concerned about that. Mayor Furlong: Okay. I guess let’s get one of those questions at a time here. Kate Aanenson: Sure. The measurement, while it’s 9 feet from the property line, from the edge of the bituminous you add another 12 feet so that’s where this additional property would come in so that’s the current, and like I said there’s no intention right now to improve that street beyond what it is. When I say improve, make it wider, bigger than what it is right now so. So in effect it’s 9-10 feet from the, excuse me. Go to this one. 11 feet here. 11 feet but you’re actually. Mayor Furlong: That’s from the property line but the property line doesn’t go all the way up to the. Kate Aanenson: Yeah that is the property line but then you go all the way up to the edge of the improvements so you add another 12-14 feet til you get to the pavement where it’s actually being plowed, so it’s not that close to the plowed area, just to be clear. Mayor Furlong: Right. Kate Aanenson: And again as the City Manager mentioned, the water is currently being directed across this property. Private property so our intent now is to get an easement. Anybody that has an easement on their property uses it towards their green space or they have the right to use that property. While the City may have utilities under that easement, whether it’s sewer, water, telephone, cable, they have a right to, that’s still part of their green space. Part of their property so that adds to their green space over their managing some of that water part of it. So the goal here was to get an actual easement for that. Control it. Redirect it, and where it’s going, manage that in a more controlled path and looking at where the current pavement width is. Again working with again a reasonable sized home on that lot. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Does that make sense Mr. Moore with regard to the setback. It’s to the property line, not necessarily to the pavement where cars are currently driving and it’s being plowed. So it adds an additional you said, what was that distance? Kate Aanenson: About another 12 feet. Mayor Furlong: 12 feet, okay. 16 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Kate Aanenson: To the actual pavement width. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Bob Moore: Is the front the same way? Kate Aanenson: Yeah because this is the edge of the property line. Then when you actually look at where the, you can see on the survey here it says the edge of the pavement is further away. So it adds another 12 feet. Bob Moore: Okay. Mayor Furlong: So as with many streets, the right-of-way is wider than where the current pavement and where the plowed area is. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. Bob Moore: And that would be in the front the same way? Kate Aanenson: Well it is on Ringo. On the front you meet the setbacks on Cree. Bob Moore: But I mean on Yuma it’s the same way. Kate Aanenson: Yes, actually the roadway is here, right. So the setback to the street is 20 feet and then you actually have another 10 feet or so before to actually, before you get to the pavement. Mayor Furlong: The physical street is narrower than the right-of-way. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Bob Moore: Okay. Mayor Furlong: On all of those. And then with regard to the berm that’s being requested Mr. Oehme, where’s, if you could show us, where is that berm planned to be located? Paul Oehme: Yeah, so the drainage swale is coming through here with the red arrows again and the berm is planned for at this location right here so, and actually on this drawing the berm is. Kate Aanenson: It has been revised. Paul Oehme: It has been revised and it’s actually extended out farther than it’s shown right here so currently, or the proposal is for that berm to be about 3 1/2 higher than the existing grade at this location right here in front of the house so it’s improving the drainage along the property line here and directing the water away from the property to the south and making sure it discharges onto Yuma before going on private property. Mayor Furlong: So what Mr. Moore is concerned about causing problems to the water flow that flows north off his property into this area, is this, is the swale going to, or the berm going to restrict that or is it going or not? Paul Oehme: The water’s not going to be restricted. It’s going to actually. 17 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Mayor Furlong: The water flowing from the property to the south flowing north will be able to continue to do that as it does currently? Paul Oehme: Correct. Kate Aanenson: All the same path. Paul Oehme: Right, it will follow the same path. Actually the drainage swales will be wider…wider than it is currently today to warrant capacity as well so. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor. Kate Aanenson: Excuse me, this is the revised plan. It’s a little harder to read but this is showing the corrected berm. It’s one of the conditions that the Planning Commission asked for. Todd Gerhardt: I think Mr. Moore’s question was about his drainage also. Will his drainage go into that existing ditch so his won’t be altered. So his would naturally drain the way it is today then? Paul Oehme: Correct, and the water would not go, flow to the north. It will still flow to I believe the, to the west. Todd Gerhardt: To Yuma. Paul Oehme: To Yuma. Todd Gerhardt: So it would get down into that ditch. You don’t plan on filling that ditch in as a part of this? Paul Oehme: No, not at this time. I think in 4 to 5 years we’re looking at a street improvement project in this area and we’re looking at maybe addressing some of those issues in this area but under this proposal we’re not looking at addressing the drainage at this time. Mayor Furlong: Were those all your questions? Bob Moore: Yep. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Bob Moore: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. I’m sorry, Mr. Moore. You’re satisfied with the answers to those questions as well? Bob Moore: Yeah, the best you can answer them. Mayor Furlong: Okay, alright. Very good. Bob Moore: And during construction and everything, someone will make sure that everything stays open? 18 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yeah, there should be erosion control and the like and if there’s not then someone should certainly feel free to call us. Mayor Furlong: And that would be part of the building permit process I assume with the variance request. Okay, alright. The public hearing was held at the Planning Commission but understanding now there was perhaps some misunderstanding. If there’s anybody else that would like to provide public comment on this, I’d certainly welcome to the podium at this time. And assume the Nowling’s may be here as well so if there’s anything you feel you want to say, that’s fine. Don’t feel obligated. Good evening. Bruce Barrington: I’m Bruce Barrington, 6869 Yuma. Mayor Furlong: Good evening. Bruce Barrington: I’ve been living in this area for about 35 years or so and I know the amount of water that you’re talking, you’re talking just from Cree and so on like that but there are properties that are farther up the road that drain in this same area and the roads that we have, Yuma Drive, gets dug out every year and I spoke to one of the maintenance guys from the City and he said they’re going to put in a new road next year so they improve some of the road by patching and so on like that. Now by next spring those patches will be washed away so I’m just…what he’s saying. There’s lot of water that has to come through there. And secondly I’m kind of wondering how many of the council members actually physically looked at this property to see what it looks like before it came to council, and that’s about my only two questions. Councilwoman Ernst: I did. I live there. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Mr. Oehme, with regard to his question on street improvements. Paul Oehme: Yeah, and again the staff and the City Council, the City’s looking at making some improvements in this area, especially on Yuma Drive to address some of that drainage concerns and address some of the street condition concerns as well so, there is about an acre of area north of this property that does drain through that culvert. Staff has looked at the capacity of that culvert and the drainage swale that’s being proposed and we feel that the, those improvements are adequate to handle the current and the future drainage through this area. You know where the water goes on Yuma, we’re not looking at again making any changes at this time but in the future we are looking at trying to make the drainage patterns in this area better. Mayor Furlong: And with regard to his comments about the making some improvements, is that something we’re continuing to patch and repair process until I think you mentioned 4 to 5 years there may be something, more improvements in this area. Paul Oehme: Yeah, right. I mean you know we’re out patching the Carver Beach area roads on a yearly basis. The roads are to the condition where they pothole and there’s a lot of defects and the roads really do need to be improved here. You know a lot of it can be contributed to the condition of the, and the age of the roadway system but some of it can be contributed also to the drainage system in this area as well so, you know in conjunction with that street improvement project we do definitely want to put in, you know look at putting in culverts or storm sewer systems and trying to treat the water a little better than it is currently handled at this time so. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And that water improvements will be part of the street project when that’s put forth? 19 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Paul Oehme: Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. Every time we go into a neighborhood and propose a street improvement project we always look at what the condition of the utilities are. What’s the drainage issues that are in this area. Try to package a project together so we’re out here once making those improvements. Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other public comments this evening? No? Okay, thank you. Any other follow up questions for council? Any comments by council with regard to the proposal in front of us? Is our, we make a motion? Kate Aanenson: Yes you would, I’m sorry. I have actually. Mayor Furlong: Okay. The action to be taken, either approval of denial. Not necessarily. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, you’re affirming. Mayor Furlong: Of the original application, just to be clear. Not the appeal but the original application. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, you’re approving the Planning Commission’s recommendation with the variance. Mayor Furlong: Approving or denying. Kate Aanenson: Yep. Mayor Furlong: But I mean it’s of the original application is our motion. Councilwoman Ernst: Mayor I’m sorry, I do have one question. Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst. Councilwoman Ernst: Paul, when you were talking about this project, can you give me an idea like if say for example there’s a real problem out there this coming spring, what, is there anything we can do temporarily to help that situation out there? Paul Oehme: Absolutely. I mean if we know that there is a drainage issue out here, say a clogged pipe or a drainage ditch that’s filled in with sediment, we’d try to be as proactive as we can to address that situation before spring runoff. So there’s, you know if there’s anything that we can do to temporarily improve the situation, you know it’d be helpful to know that. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you. Mayor Furlong: Discussion, comments on the application. Or the proposed variance request. Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Well I guess you know I normally do not support variances but you know one of the things for variances, whether or not you can enjoy the property and I’d say without these accommodations, yeah it’s going to be pretty hard to build a house on there. The one gentleman brought up the thing about the decks. Well decks are not necessary. A house is. That’s probably one of the reasons why a deck would get turned down. That doesn’t stop you from enjoyment of your property. So I mean in this case, because of the unique circumstances and it sounds as though we’ve got the drainage under control, I’d be in favor of approving the variance in this particular case. 20 Chanhassen City Council – November 14, 2011 Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other comments? Discussion. My thoughts are similar. I think whenever we look at variance requests, and the issue came up you know what’s reasonable. How far will you go? And I think in each case it’s a facts and circumstances situation so therefore unfortunately the answer is it depends. It depends on the specific facts and circumstances around the area and what are the different effects. I know Councilwoman Ernst lives in the neighborhood. We’ve worked with a number of residents over the years to try to accommodate requests and to the extent that they’re reasonable in terms of people constructing homes. Improving their property in the Carver Beach area and it’s a wonderful part of our city. It’s certainly one of those areas that has a lot of character and is an asset to the city but it also has it’s challenges and when we looked at the old plat, that there were 6 or 7 individual lots that make up now a lot of under 9,000 square feet, there are challenges throughout. I think the key here is when we look at a variance there are standards we have to follow. Is it consistent and in harmony with the comprehensive plan? I think the answer is yes. The comprehensive plan has these areas for single family homes. That’s what’s being requested. Is there, are there practical difficulties with the lot to meet all the zoning requirements? I think the answer is clearly yes there. I think the best example there I saw was the triangle. The red triangle on the lot. To try to squeeze something in there clearly practical difficulties for a lot of this size, this shape and surrounded by three roads. Three right-of-ways. Public right-of-ways. Clearly there are some unique aspects to this property that aren’t created by the owner. Aren’t self created issues but they’re practical aspects that need to be considered. And so then is it, is it a reasonable request to build a single family home? I think what I do appreciate is the property owner’s willingness to work with the staff to try to improve the drainage in this area where we have those opportunities. As Councilwoman Ernst said, and others recognize in this neighborhood, when we have opportunities to make some improvements, we try to do that and the City’s always tried to do that. I do appreciate Mr. Moore’s concerns regarding how those changes may affect water flow across his property and I’m very glad to hear that there should be no change to the water flow across his property, or from his property to the existing drainage area, so it seems to me, and as Mr. McDonald said, that there are, this is a reasonable accommodation for all concerned and I think it’s for the council should go ahead and approve the planning case with the variances subject to the Findings of Fact and conditions in the staff report. If there are no other comments, would somebody like to make a motion? Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’ll make the motion. Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom, thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’d like to make a motion that the Chanhassen City Council approves the Planning Case #2011-10 for the construction of a single family home with variances subject to the conditions of the staff report and the adoption of the Findings of Fact and Decision. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilman McDonald: I’ll second. Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote. Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the Chanhassen City Council approves Planning Case #2011-10 for the construction of a single family home with variances subject to the conditions of the staff report and the adoption of the Findings of Fact and Decision. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Mayor Furlong: Thank you everybody. We appreciate your participation. 21