1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 27, 2002
Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Amy O' Shea, Glenn Stolar, Paula Atkins, Tom Kelly and
David Happe
MEMBERS ABSENT: Jack Spizale
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent
(The recording of this meeting was of poor quality and therefore some discussion is not
complete.)
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: As presented.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Happe moved, Stolar seconded to approve the Minutes of the
Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated July 23, 2002 as submitted. All voted in favor
and the motion carried.
REGIONAL TRAILS - 2002-2003 WINTER TRAIL ACTIVITIES PERMIT.
Hoffman: Chair Franks, members of the commission. Each year the city has made application to
utilize the South LRT as a snowmobile trail just for our section of the community. And then it
does continue to the west into Chaska, but only along the ditch of State Highway 212. Many
years ago Eden Prairie determined that snowmobiles were no longer going to be allowed in the
city at all, and now they have what would be commonly referred to as a trailer ordinance where
you need to take the snowmobile from the city and you put it on a trailer and you take it out a
designated trail head or another location. In Chanhassen we still have a few minor trail
connections, snowmobile trail connections. One along Highway 5. One going down south and
connecting with Pioneer Trail, and then dumping down at the Pioneer bridge at the LRT and then
continuing out to the west. The Snowmobile Club has always been interested in preserving that
ability to snowmobile out of the city to the trails to the west as long as possible. To date this has
not posed any great problems. If you think about it in the terms of once they get there, there' s
really no problem. It' s getting there that causes the minor problems. If there are any existing in
that area, and each year there certainly are property issues with people snowmobiling in property
along the ditch line .... since '94 that this permit has been approved by Hennepin Parks, now
Three Rivers Park District, and we have made application for it. The requirements are that we
must sign it which the snowmobile club signs the trail and they have a list of the rules that apply
to the trails as part of your packet. And then the city provides liability insurance which we do in
two installs. One goes up the first...goes through the end of the season. The only other trail
comment I'll make about snowmobiling and jet skiing in the city is, fortunately we live in climate
that has seasons because just about the time complaints reach...snow melts, or the ice comes so
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
it's a tough issue to manage...offer that service we feel it's appropriate. With that it's
recommended that the commission recommend to the City Council that they submit an
application to the Hennepin Regional Park District, now Three River Park District for the use of
the southern LRT trail located in Chanhassen as a designated snowmobile trail and that would be
limited to 2002-2003 season. And I'll answer any questions the commission may have.
Kelly: One question I've got. The connector comes on Pioneer Trail. I think last winter, that has
been plowed...the snowmobiles get there.
Hoffman: Probably in the opposite ditch line. The south ditch line.
Kelly: Okay. Because I know I was thinking Eden Prairie either plowed that LRT trail north of
Pioneer all last winter.
Franks: Any other questions for staff?.
Stolar: What is the cost for that liability policy?
Hoffman: Nothing.
Stolar: Just part of the overall.
Hoffman: It's a rider on the policy.
O'Shea: I have one quick thing. That doesn't intersect with any trail, running or walking trail
does it?
Hoffman: No.
O' Shea: There's no chance of a runner being.
Hoffman: Well there's mixed use on there. There are certain people who choose to use it for
walking. In fact there are quite a few people.who choose to walk and somebody quoted the other
day that it's such a great walking route because the snowmobiles pack it down. And there are
some people that use it as cross country skiing, but the primary use of it, that would be walking
dogs I believe. But the permit does not allow us to advertise for any other use...
O'Shea: Do they know that risk? I'm just thinking that a snowmobile coming at 40 miles an
hour and somebody skiing.
Hoffman: They're skiing on a snowmobile trail.
O' Shea: Okay. That would be my concern, even with signs there's a chance that somebody
walking their dog or skiing will collide so that would be a concern. I don't know how you'd
control that.
Hoffman: It's been operating that way for what, 8 years now.
Kelly: ...just announcing when it opens for a snowmobile trail and that will...in the paper.
Hoffman: We can submit a.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Kelly: Rec notice or something.
Franks: Do you include these type of things on the web site as well?
Hoffman: We have the trail section on there.
Franks: Yeah. On the new one.
Ruegemer: This is the first winter we'll have it so.
Franks: It's just something to consider if it fits in.
Hoffman: I think a general observation...that this is a snowmobile trail and... Normally peak
hours on there are weekends or evenings when...
Franks: Any further questions for staff?. Seeing that there's no members of the audience here to
address the commission on this item, we'll just bring it right back and are there any comments
from commissioners?
Happe: I'm assuming that there weren't any complaints from last year that we need to be aware
of as we get ready to approve this or recommend this application.
Franks: We've had some comments about snowmobile usage within the city but not in
accordance with this trail.
Hoffman: Early on we had a lot of concern when this first was permitted and we had one
property owner that had complaints and.., were included in the packet.
Franks: Any other commissioner comments? Alright, seeing none. Is there a motion?
Happe: I move that the commission recommend to the City Council that they submit an
application for the Suburban Hennepin Regional Park District for use of the southern LRT trail
located in Chanhassen as the designated snowmobile trail for this coming winter.
Franks: Is there a second?
Kelly: Second.
Happe moved, Kelly seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that
the City Council submit an application to the Suburban Hennepin Regional Park District
for use of the southern LRT trail located in Chanhassen as a designated snowmobile trail.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Franks: No Snowmobile Club members want to come in.
Happe: Is that a pretty big club?
Hoffman: Oh yeah.
Happe: Who heads it up?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002 '
Hoffman: They switch around. They meet at the.., occasionally we put it in your admin packet.
REVIEW FINAL DRAFT, 2003 PARK AND TRAIL ACOUISITION'AND
DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP).
Hoffman: Chair Franks, members of the commission. The report is broken into primary
components, and then along with the... Just briefly what I attempted to present this evening is the
results of the comments that were made at the June meeting by the commission and then making
some switches. Basically one switch or some dollars that were allocated for the City Center Park
for a park building, the Bandimere Park from staff' s directive is seeing a tremendous amount of
use and the dollars that would be invested in such a building would be put to better use at
Bandimere Park currently then at City Center Park. There is also as part of a reaching question of
the final design of the road system and parking around City Hall as it has to do with the library,
so putting a $275,000 structure in the middle of that plan when we're not sure what's going to
happen, probably is premature at this time. The proposed 2003 park and trail CIP totals $893,000
which was an aggressive CIP for the commission. Of that amount $620,000 is proposed to be
funded from park dedication fees. And then the remaining $273,000 is proposed to be part of...
This allocation is...look at comparisons is $38,000 more than the funds annual income average
for the past 4 years and ! think the average annually $572,000 gives you one perspective. Second
sense is if you want to compare this again to the current cash balance, which is about $1.8 million
following the completion of the Highway 101 north trail which everyone is seeing is under
construction. And the south 101 south trail, taxes earned in the park dedication...million dollars.
And so you can start to do the math a variety of ways. You can take that whole million and take
away the other $93,000, you're about emptying the piggy bank down to zero and then hopefully
you're adding back in, in a year's income, approximately $500,000 back. So if you take a look at
it in the vast, in that kind of frame, we're investing a good deal of money in park trail
improvements and this year will be no exception .... park dedication fund at approximately a half
a million dollars giving an average year in park dedication fund. And all the reasons are pretty
basic. The 101 north trail is going to cost somewhere between a half a million and $700,000.
Probably closer to a half a million dollars by the time it' s all said and done. And if you take that
in one project. The 101 south trail and Highway 5 connector's our big project and a project that
we're looking at this evening, a very aggressive project as well, especially the Bandimere
Community Park. The other big item on the list, and then I'll go quickly through the rest is the
Lake Ann Park and resurfacing of the parking lot and road. The original part of the park that you
see out there today dates back to 1971 when that asphalt was put in. That's original. It's not been
taken out. It's approximately 2 to 2 V2 inches and it's completely failed in most areas and...
alligatored to the point where it looks like it' s just chunks of asphalt put together in a random
pattern. And then of course that foot path a 50/50 park dedication, 50 fund allocation for
$240,000. We go back to the top and we have the Bandimere Community shelter, which would
be a full service shelter of 275. The Chan Rec Center has a couple of allocations. The $15,000
carpet replacement is really untouchable. It needs to be...pulled out in the past few years and it's
starting to give way at the entrance of the facility. Curry Farms Park and Meadow Green Park
and the first two of what will need to be 10 playground replacements in the city of wood
playgrounds. These are not wood...playgrounds, which would be redwood playgrounds which
installation started in 1986 for those structures and ended at about 1994-1996. So for
app.roximately a 10 year period of time we purchased only redwood...playground structures. And
what we see in those is excessive wear in the play areas, and then what we would call...flaring
where a child will get multiple small slivers in their hands or thighs generally. Sometimes in their
forearms because of the wood and what we would do periodically is flip the wood over or flip the
rounds over on the playground...and then sand them but it's a fairly intensive maintenance wise.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
These playgrounds also experience frost heaving where the frost grabs onto the poles and shoots
them up and out of the ground in pressure ridge and come out...putting those back into the
ground. Rethreading the posts and just spending a whole lot of labor on these types of
playgrounds where.., metal playgrounds and plastic, they are much more easily maintained.
Meadow Green and Curry Farms, the reason the numbers are fairly high. Traditionally we think
we can get a pretty nice playground for $30,000 but what we see today are those costs have risen
closer to $40,000. And we also need to include approximately $10,000 and maybe a little more
for the concrete border that we're putting around the playgrounds that you see at Bandimere.
Sugarbush Park, Minnewashta Park and just an excellent way to install the border. No wood. No
plastic. Plastic...frost heave out of the ground and break. For short term they're a good solution
but long term they're not a good solution. We have some picnic table allocations... Skate park
allocation. Two trail projects and we'll briefly go over those. Highway 41 connectors. What we
have today is we've got a trail that comes down along Longacres for about a block and a half
along Highway 41, and then just to the south of that Pulte Homes is...so we'll have two pieces of
trail separated by about 3 blocks, 4 blocks that need to be connected so all those people
can...running and walking route. It's in a state highway right-of-way. It's not on city property.
It's not on Pulte property. So for you to make a connection...trail program so the city will need
to pay for it .... similar to the trail we're doing right now on 101 and it will cost approximately
$90,000 due to the terrain and the retaining walls that will need to go in to build these trails. The
other connection are two that were not connected as a part of this year's 101 north trail. 101
north trail will terminate at the north end of 101 at Pleasant View Road and so I feel fairly
strongly that we should take it from the north side of Pleasant View down to the Near Mountain
connection... There also is going to be continued north... 101 down to Town Line Road to make a
connection to the Minnetonka trail on Highway 101 north and then up in the neighborhood along
Town Line Road to allow for that...trail continue north. The final acquisition, a three year
replacement program for trash receptacles...blue barrels to green barrels with the trash covers on
them. And the tree i~lanting, we continue to... commentary that is provided there...I would ask
that the commission consider forwarding to the City Council. If you would like to make
changes...discuss that prior to doing that.
Franks: Thank you Todd. A couple of, I'll just start out with some of the questions that I have.
First, I'm wondering why there was.., half and half on the Lake Ann parkway and what your
reaction was to that?
Hoffman: Well our S & L for the last, at least 3 years...solely out of the general fund has been
turned away. So we've... $50,000 project which would be complete reconstruction and the
installation of curbing and storm water management, down to an overlay which would most likely
see a mat put over an overlay mat, and then asphalt material with no curb and gutter. One thing
commissioners need to keep in mind is that I think the council is currently facing a million dollar
overage without these numbers. Without, where is it?
Franks: 273.
Hoffman: Yep. And so they're less likely again...the testimony from staff on the budget
numbers for the upcoming budget and they'll be considering sending those back...levy at their
next City Council meeting. And then they're going to be wrestling with what are they going to
do with the general fund. So we're going to shoot those numbers up there and ask for them. I
recommend you shoot these numbers up and ask for them to be funded. I think it's...ask for the
entire amount because they simply haven't been looked upon favorably in the past few years.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Franks: I can understand that. It's just that when I look at how you've broken down where you
want the funds to come from, it seems pretty clear that it follows the philosophy that this
commission had talked about earlier about new acquisitions being bom principally out of the park
dedication fund. Whereas maintenance and replacement are really looking at other funding
source or like a general fund allocation for those.
Hoffman: Yep.
Franks: So that's why when I saw this 50/50, I was just like wondering what the sort of rationale
was for that one but it sounded as if it was a big ticket item. That it may appear a little bit easier
to swallow. My concern is that it be made clear that the philosophy is consistent with what we're
trying to do and that it is the, if we approve this, the commission really endorsing, attempting to
work in a cooperative way understanding the financial constraints that the council is under as
well, and not that it's a statement about whenever these types of projects come up, that our
philosophy of how they should be funded. Again following this pattern, I'm just wondering too,
two things. This skate ramping, the new ramp coming out of the general fund and then going
down to trash receptacles, which are new acquisitions as well for the parks, coming out of park
dedication fund.
Hoffman: The skate park...that should simply be park dedication...
Franks: So that should be park dedication? Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I thought so too.
Hoffman: And trash receptacles are, and you can go either way on that.
Franks: I think that works for me anyway.
Hoffman: The ones we have out there today were free.
Franks: That's what I mean, the blue barrels. So this is essentially putting them in new for the
first time. Okay. If you could for me just real briefly describe again how the 101 north
connectors are fitting in.
Hoffman: The trail plan?
Franks: Yeah. How that effectively going north of Town Line.
Hoffman: We're going to continue right ditch of 101 north right up to Town Line and make a
connection that they have coming off of Minnetonka from...coming out of the north side. There
may be a missing piece there in Minnetonka.
Franks: Yeah. Right, that's what I'm, okay.
Hoffman: We're not going to venture past that. We can hit the city boundary at Town Line so
we can go there and work with Eden Prairie and Minnetonka to get their piece down but if you
get to Town Line, 101 to get onto Town Line Road which will...
Stolar: Yeah, I'm trying to think of the trail does go across...falls a little short. And then the
other piece of it you said was going to go on the north side of Pleasant View. All the way to
where the other trail kind of crosses the road there and goes into a connection to that.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Franks: So the idea then is that would connect the Near Mountain neighborhood to the 101 trail.
Hoffman: Yep. Plus a couple of other neighborhoods feed into that.
Franks: Okay, thank you. Any other commission questions for staff?.
Stolar: I just wanted to run some numbers again. Beginning deficit is 1.8. And then it's like
500,000 roughly is just a projection so we'll have 2.3 and out of that, how much of the 101 trail is
this year's funding in 2003? Or how much of that 2.3 is taken out for the current 101 rebuilding?
Hoffman: Will be billed this year? To the fund.
Stolar: Yeah. I mean does the 2.3, that doesn't take into account the funding for that trail, right?
Or does it?
Franks: What I think Glenn is saying is that we've got a cash balance right now of 1.8 and you're
expecting.
Stolar: 500 in 2003.
Franks: So does this 1.8 reflect 2002's income?
Hoffman: No.
Franks: Okay, and that will be.
Hoffman: It reflects income through about June.
Franks: Through June. So about half of the year.
Stolar: So we should expect another $250,000. And then we also should expect $500,000. What
I'm trying to get to is what is our December 31, 2003 balance. You say just under a million is
what you'd expect it to be?
Hoffman: Can't put a date to it. The way I look at it is based on projects and I'm not sure when
the building will occur on the 101 north trail. So the balance, they may have not built it and I
can't account for how engineering is going to do the accounting. Whether they're going to pay
for that fund out of, no 101 money may come out of it by December 31st of this year.
Stolar: Of 2003 1 said. I'm looking if we do, we have all the projects we don't anticipate for,
take our current balance and income, what's the end number that we will have available for 2004
for spending?
Hoffman: Again estimated, we went through that. It's going to right around a half million to
$700,000 more or less.
Stolar: What was our total 101 trail contribution?
Hoffman: North?
Franks: It will be an estimated.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Hoffman: $500,000.
Stolar: If I add that 500 to the 620 or 630 that's 1.1, out of 2.3 balance that we're going to
have...
Hoffman: We need to pick up the rest of this year's expenditures. $200,000 for 101 south. The
other things that we have in this year's budget.
Stolar: Actually that's what I was...okay. And then, in presenting this to the City Council, could
we please have that balance to see what the situation is? I know they know what, but it might be
good...because I am very much in support of our staying with our philosophy and so I'd be
hesitant, even though you know this may be unrealistic, I still believe that we should take the
Lake Ann funding and put it all in general fund. List the balance that we have at the end of the
time with that, because you've already reduced the cost. Did you ever propose the 240 option to
them? Or was it a full scale. So I think we take, you should take...we found a cheaper way to do
it. We still have the general fund hitting this and then show what our balance is at the end and
that way we're consistent with our philosophy, plus you showed a reduction in the Lake Ann
resurfacing.
Hoffman: I'll be glad to do that. One choice compared to how they're going to look at these kind
of dollars versus what they're getting in today. Right now there's a $250,000 allocation for
general fund money for road improvement, which council has been struggling with, this council
has been struggling with for over a year. They've gone through an assessment policy where
there's going to be a certain portion of those street improvements assessed and then this is the city
allocation. And they're having a very difficult time keeping that $250,000 in there. You have
$250,000 is a quarter of the million that is currently up and beyond what they' ve had to deal with
in the past year. So we're going to put it into the mix and then take some, the commission's
going to have to talk to their council members-to make sure they understand the importance of the
improvements and the philosophies that it be taken out of the general fund allocation...
Stolar: Are you making an analogy here though that like the city would assess a neighborhood to
repair their road, this is our assessment for our park to pay for their road to be fixed? City pays
part, we pay part. Is that how you're approaching it?
Hoffman: No.
Stolar: You're just saying you want to do whatever's realistic to try to get the money.
Hoffman: What I've come down to is the Lake Ann Park is, I'm just tried of seeing the black eye
on Lake Ann Park. It's a beautiful, beautiful park and we have a piece of junk road that goes into
it. I want to get it repaired, and I've reminded the council in their line of progression that even,
we go down to a 240, we're buying a half of a job. And so the thing will maybe be done in
maybe 10 or 15 years instead of 30 years to do a complete reconstruction so we're just buying a
quick fix at 240.
Stolar: I know we're opening the gate, but then that's just going to open wider.
Hoffman: Tonight's very...very little money's been allocated out of the general fund. The
maximum that the Park and Recreation Department has received a general fund allocation for
capital items has been...
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Stolar: Part of the other part of my saying what' s the end balance, as we talked about before,
there may be the reality that we won't have enough for what we need and we'll have to revisit
that with, eventually with a bond or some other approach. And I'm worried about going against
our philosophy here about repairs and maintenance without that piece of... To say all repair and
maintenance you go to the citizens and ask for funding for repair and replacement. Great, then
this can be thrown in there, but until that time I'd prefer approaching it with our philosophy.
Franks: Thank you Glenn. Any other questions?
Kelly: Yeah I was wondering, do we have to worry about City Center Park coming out of the
park dedication in 2004? City Center Park has a pretty big price tag on it. That could take a
majority of whatever balance is coming out of 2004, which what will leave us with almost
nothing for the remainder of 2004.
Hoffman: Presently it's unclear how much of that allocation will be out of 410 or how much will
come out of the general fund or how much will come out of the library budget and that's an
administrative project managed by the manager. But at some point they will pay the project...
but it's going to go higher than that...
Kelly: I was just curious. It's something, it seems like a pretty high price tag item for 2004.
Also on the Curry Park and Meadow Green, are they going to be Bandimere quality of play areas
and surface? Is it going to be that foam surface that they have at Bandimere?
Hoffman: No, it'd be similar to the other neighborhood parks where the new one, the concrete
border and then pea gravel surface. And the play structure would be more like a Sugarbush or
Roundhouse. Not the sky tower you see at Bandimere. We'd like to continue putting that rubber
material in all the community parks. The problem is when you see the surfacing in concrete, it's
almost equivalent to the cost of the structure, which we receive a 50 percent discount, but still it's
very, it costs $40,000, equivalent to $40,000...
Atkins: I have one comment on the rec center. With the fitness center currently being the major
money or revenue producer, and the community center being down the road a few years, would it
make sense to even buy more cardiovascular equipment? Where you take another space and
maybe you have 10 or 12 even additional cardiovascular. My fear is, because it's crowded, that
it's not serving the needs of people that want to work out. If you don't do that, are we going to
see a slip in attendance.
Hoffman: That's a philosophical question that staff has talked about since the opening of the
center. Council has struggled with and what I think the best way to look at it is to remind
ourselves that deriving profits at the rec center is not the primary focus. It's a balanced facility
and when it was built the meeting room spaces, which are the only spaces that you could expand
in, were the primary goal of the community. The city was very deficient in meeting space for a
variety of community groups...and any other small fitness room... The fitness room has reached
a very good equilibrium. We receive very few complaints about that it's crowded because people
realize that if it doesn't fit their schedule...they've bought $20 worth of punches and they...when
they're gone and that's not a huge...because it can only fit so many people.., go to Eden Prairie
has private clubs, Chaska and other facilities. If we expand and take the community room out
and that is, that provides...detriment to our community space needs, which are very important to
the city. About the second year that the community or the recreation center opened, the City
Council took a look at the balance sheet and said the facility is not making enough money. We
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
had a goal or thought that we should make more money when we opened it compared to what we
end up in each year in staffing and other costs. Today it's about a quarter million dollar operation
and we make $175,000...second year of operation the council make more money. Kick those
freebies out and find new paying customers, which staff did. Resulted in a huge outcry from
those groups, the school groups, the community groups. Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, all those
people were upset and said hey, you built a recreation center here for the community. We want
access to it. We don't care if it's losing...we want to be there with our community group...it
would be very easy to do but I' m not sure that' s in the best interest of the community to do that.
It seems to be working. The City Manager asked the same question, and it would take some
investigation to decide whether or not that would be a good idea.
Atkins: Do you think it's worth investigating?
Hoffman: I don't get the feel that it is because the room we struggle with most is the meeting
room space. That's where we have the most need and we need more of that kind of space, and
I' m sure... I' m not quite sure that is the philosophy of what the recreation center...
Atkins: Yeah...general public views it that way. I think they think they paid for a rec center...
join a club it costs them more money but that is...so I don't know.
Hoffman: Just a punch card. That's really the best thing about the rec center, people don't pay a
membership fee. They don't pay to join... The other part that goes along with that is they'll
never pay back your capital investment .... $30,000 or $40,000 worth of cardio machines, at 2
bucks a piece we're not going to pay back our capital investment...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Franks: Let's bring it back to the commission for comments. Go ahead.
Happe: I'll start. Highway 101 north and south I think are an excellent use of dollars that we
have available. I think it' s pretty central to the mission of Park and Rec. We continue to expand
the infrastructure of trails. That being said, that's not really part of these dollars we're looking at
tonight. I have difficulty with the fact that we're going to propose a budget that has us spending
more than our income. We're asking for, if we take the Lake Ann Park issue and set it aside, to
come back to later in our dialogue, we're still asking for $653,000 in overall spending against an
anticipated income over a 4 year history of $582,000 annually. So we're asking for council's
approval or permission for whatever reason to spend more than our income. Bandimere park
shelter ought to cost us $275,000. That would be a spectacular addition to the community but the
council is going to take a look at areas or opportunities to pull back, I think it' s, when we talk
about the Lake Ann issue, I think it's unrealistic. If we even put more weight on general fund's
shoulders, I think it's unrealistic to expect that we're going to have our needs met with us trying
to get that road built or f'med. The cuts that the council's facing one million dollar overage to that
general fund before our request fully hits their desk. The max that they have allocated in years
past to spend out of the general fund is $30,000 and if you take the Lake Ann Park spending that
we're asking for and set that aside, we're still asking for, I don't have the calculation of what the
total dollars are that we're asking to come out of the general fund.
Stoiar: It's like $143 if you take the 10 and move it for the park dedication.
Happe: So we're asking for considerably more than has ever been approved to come out of the
general fund before the Lake Ann project even hits the table. So I guess preliminarily it's my
10
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
opinion that we should strive to present the budget that's at least consistent with what we
anticipate our income to be. I realize Todd that we're spending that savings that has been in this
account for many years, and actually it increased every year for the past 10 years. It is being
spent. I think it's being spent by the council in areas that are not inconsistent with park and rec,
especially the 101 trail project, but I'd just like to ask our commission to greatly consider trying
to submit a budget proposal that' s at least representative of the amount of income that we expect
park and trail dedication fees to generate so that we're not helping to add to a deficit or a funding
problem for the council, but we can actually be part of the solution to that. That being said
Chairman Franks I don't have specifics that could be brought up to start part of the conversation
from the other commissioners as to what some of the areas of opportunities to look at where we
could cut some of this spending money come from. I'm open to suggestions and ideas and don't
have a strong feeling about any particular area or any sacred cow that I'd like to keep in the
budget, but I would like to submit a budget that is a little bit more appropriate to our anticipated
income.
Franks: Thanks Dave. Amy, any comments?
O'Shea: Yeah, I have just a couple. I think it is important to make sure that we state our
philosophy on the Lake Ann. That we're not agreeing. That we would like to see these funds
spent on maintaining or improving the road. So I think with that noted, I think we should also
look at what has been funded. It needs to be done and I trust...if it all was proposed from the
general fund so I would go with Todd's recommendation, but definitely noted that we are not
changing our philosophy and that's something we should, we're talking about in September. And
make sure that the council knows how strongly the commission feels on that. I see all this as a
need to be done and Dave, if you're right about spending. I guess what I'd like to see is, because
this is a new dilemma for this commission that that generating money...we need to look at how
we can change the Way we operate and how we can somehow continue to generate money. I
don't have the answer but I think we need to look at that and change our thought on, we aren't
going to have this stream of income coming that we have been so we can't sit back and not do
anything. We definitely need to brainstorm with staff or however the procedure would work of
how we can produce from another way than what's been done in the past. But I really don't see
things that aren't needed on this list so those are my comments.
Franks: Thanks. Todd I thought, I think it's a good list. I think that these projects that you've
outlined are all necessary and important and it's a great place to start. I appreciate Dave your
comment about spending within our means, and if we can have an average expected income of
over $500,000, that' s kind of a target to shoot for generally speaking. Just to add a little insight to
that, and you alluded to it a little bit, is that over the course of a number of years, the commission
has intentionally spent less than the income that is expected to draw into the fund just for the
purpose to be able to fund projects as they came up at a time when it was right and necessary.
And it's really my opinion that as we are right on the cusp of this, our growth curve, that the time
to really tackle these projects is now and that's the reason why the fund balance sits where it's at.
To handle these types of projects and so, it's also the reason why I think we're struggling with
this idea of replacement and maintenance not being funded from new park dedication dollars.
Again if we look at subtracting $140,000 from the amount that you've proposed to come out of
park dedication funds, the $620,000, we're back down to $500,000. Which then is within the
park dedication amount within the kind of budget idea that you've set by spending within our
income. And really looking at the city as a whole city and responsible to maintain the park
infrastructure that we've built, which the whole city gets to utilize and enjoy as well. I am in
agreement I think with Glenn that we should make a statement with the Lake Ann roadway, and
really suggest that that be funded from general fund dollars. I'm also a realist, understanding that
11
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
the council's going to look at that and have some problems with that. But it's our, in my opinion
it's this commission's responsibility to look after the welfare of the park system and how that
should be taken care of. The council's responsibility is to see that larger picture, and if it's a
decision that they make to fund that in some different way, well then they've received the input
from this body that we think it's the best way to do it. Then they've got that piece of information
to use in their decision making process. I'm hesitant to begin to make those decisions for the City
Council when in a sense we have some understanding of how that should, although quite possibly
will not occur. I don't see also anything on the list that we should subtract at Bandimere Park.
We get that shelter in, it's just going to totally increase that usage and make it a premiere sports
facility in town here. Todd, when you'd talking about full shelter, we're talking sanitary sewer
and water and the whole bit.
Hoffman: Listed under the current picnic shelter, the amenities would include the covered picnic
shelter, modern restrooms, concession space, storage space and... Sewer and water is already
stubbed out right underneath where the building would be. There's that large irrigation box
which is currently there. Those irrigation controls would be built right into the structure when we
have...
Franks: The one hit that we weren't necessarily expecting because we had no idea when it was
real!y going to come, and this commission really didn't have in my opinion a tremendous amount
of input in it's coming about was the 101 north trail...but I mean that's just a reality that needs to
go in. It should have gone in a long time ago. It's a good thing, but I think that leads to that
perception that wow, we're irresponsibly spending a lot of money from the fund, when in a sense
it's because of the responsibility of past commissions that we're able to fund these sorts of
projects all at once. So that's enough out of me. Let's move on. Tom, you're supposed to shut
me up when I drone.
Kelly: I don't really have much to add. I agree that these are great projects. What I...is
Bandimere being so expensive but I mean there was so much activity there, there's absolutely no
shade at all and it would just be great to have that shelter there .... the City Council that we aren't
crazy about doing a 50/50 split on Lake Ann but if that's what needs to get done to make that
parking area look better, then if we have the money, we probably should try to do it.
Atkins: Well all this talk about figures is really giving me a headache because my area of
expertise are all, I'm a little bit lost here. I was curious about the figure for the park dedication
fund, but I gleaned that from listening to you guys that this list seems, I mean it's really been
whittled down from the first list you gave us a couple months ago so obviously it's prioritized
very well. The skate ramp I have a comment. Is it possible to do a fundraiser or have the kids do
a fundraiser to get a skate ramp Or something like that in order to trim some money off?. I don't
know if things like that are possible. If the council doesn't approve this, then what happens? Do
we have to trim it then ourselves?
Hoffman: Well...we want you to reduce it or this is the reductions that we're going to make so...
Atkins: If Bandimere, when someone holds, a group holds a tournament there, do they pay a fee
for usage?
Ruegemer: To rent the facility? No.
Atkins: If there was a park shelter them, would them be a fee applied like them is at the other
shelter?
12
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Hoffman: There could be.
Atkins: I'm just curious.
Hoffman: Similar to Lake Ann.
Atkins: Yeah. And with the picnic tables and benches, are they new? Those are new
acquisitions, not replacing. Or replacing old or putting more new or?
Hoffman: Both. Some of both. I explained in we have maximum attrition where we get rid of
the old equipment and then we also add annual growth in our park system which requires
additional seating. Seating is one of the most common things that' s requested because in order to
experience the park, people need a place to sit, put their picnic.. The trail systems in the park have
become more popular to put these in .... picnic table and a bench, they're about 500 bucks a
piece...
Atkins: And the only other thing is, I'm learning all the time so this council meeting's going to
be very enlightening. That's all I have.
Franks: Thanks. Glenn.
Stolar: Just a few things. Again I compliment staff on whittling it down is hard because
everything is good. Everything helps our park system and so it's very difficult. I mentioned
about what I felt about Lake Ann. I think we need to stick by our philosophy there. I don't know
Todd if you have discussions when they bring it up. For example if they ask that question you at
least have the opportunity to provide feedback to them.
Hoffman: Typically we have one opportunity a year for that. Maybe two during the budget
process. Commissioner O'Shea brought up a great comment that September 30th is coming
around. That' s one of your discussion topics for that evening. Give you an idea how this council,
how they...and the Lake Ann Park building is sitting there today because of the general fund so
that's a million dollar general fund investment in the city's park system so when I say $30,000,
that...this type of work. The Lake Ann park shelter, or park maintenance program has been...
paid for solely out of the general fund. It paid for a section of the Lake Ann road and the building
of the maintenance structure itself so...
Stolar: I also I'd like to agree with David's comments that we have a budget conscience here.
The distinction here is no matter what we do, we're going to run out of money. We're not going
to be able to meet it so...spend it now and let's deal with the bond issue quick. How do we pay
for this in the future when the growth stops? And my experience in Eden Prairie, that's exactly
how they did it. They said we're going to spend because that's our philosophy and we're going
to go back and say okay, but the growth has stopped. Our source of funding has stopped. Do we
need another source? And the reality is to...but I do think if we take away Lake Ann we're down
to not quite under 500, with 500 the projection. If you put the projection at 510, we'd be at 510...
I also think, and you and I had talked about this in a sense. If I looked at the criteria for how we
should spend our money, we have some various things. We have safety issues. We have access
issues, enhanced usage, and repair and replacement and I put repair and replacement different
than safety. Those are things that you need to do because of safety reasons and there are those
that you need to do because of longevity issues so I can't say for sure on the park benches but
once they become an ugly eyesore and really need to replace them, that's repair and replacement
13
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
versus the playground equipment where there's a safety issue. And we mainly address the safety
issue. Park dedication historically it sounded has been really focused on some of the access
issues like longer trail system where we enhance the parks or create some new parks and access
and safety seem to be my top priorities. Now I support this plan with the one exception of the
Lake Ann project. If I have to look at anything to remove it would be enhance research because
any time...I still think we have a mission to have access and we have an obligation to deal with
safety. So those would be my top priorities.
Franks: I'm sorry, what was that?
Stolar: Our mission is to grant access and we have an obligation for safety so if any, you know
we don't know what's going to come out of the City Council, so it's just personal input to the
staff. If there's discussion at that point, that's how I feel we should prioritize. I think we should
approve this, and once we get to that point I'll ask that the Lake Ann thing be adjusted, but I think
we have to focus on access and safety.
Hoffman: Were those before you...
Stolar: There was a fifth one I can't remember what it was, but there was, yeah. I came here
fresh from work and I realized I forgot the list but those are generally speaking the areas. And
park dedication is set up for access.
Hoffman: So we can run through the financials once more. I set it up just in basic dollar
amounts...so everybody gets a feel for that, and again these are estimates. Word of caution is
that building permit activity is not at an all time high in the community. The multi-family is the
only thing in town. Single family permits are flat. Industrial permits are going backwards so
industrial has really driven a good deal of the revenue in those 582 type of numbers and that's just
not happening .... in town will not go into new space... On the income side for 2003, we got
down 1.8 and that would be current cash on hand. Point 2, which would be the remaining
income in 2002, and then...point 4, which would be income in 2003. Is about cash balance again
in 2003 is 2.4 or cash balance of income. In that same approximate time period would be .7
million in 2003 based on the plan that you have before you today. Point 3 add in in 2002
remaining, and that's not including 101, so .3 for the other things that we're doing. Point 5 for
101. And .2 for City Center, if that would be an allocation that is taken out of there for a total of
1.7, so we have a difference of approximately...in 2003.
Franks: I'm sorry, what was that again?
Hoffman: $700,000. 1.7 versus .4.
Franks: At the end of 2003.
Hoffman: 2003. That being the perspective...and this is all responsible investments and it's just
a philosophy. It's what you want to do. The town has grown to 21,000 people. The community
is asking for the reserves...community responded. The council has responded. Passed a
referendum in '97...improvements. Continued on with that. The 101 north trail is absolutely
going to be history in the making. At the same time we complete the 101 south trail, which has
seen very little publicity but it's going to be a wonderful compliment to the system. We'll have a
trail on 101 from Pioneer to Minnetonka. Pioneer Trail to Minnetonka. All the way down a state
highway which is on the county trail plan and the city did it all by themselves so I think we have
a lot to...philosophy. Do you want to continue to do.that, or sit back and...you have porta
14
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
potties, you didn't have running water and you didn't have a place...headquarters and storage,
and you put that kind of facility a $275,000 improvement into a park which to date has cost us 2
million dollars, it's another 14 percent to that investment and it just caps off the park so... We
have this much and we put this much more to make it just that much better.
Franks: If we approve something tonight, when would it go to be considered by the council?
Hoffman: Well it will be submitted to the City Manager and the Finance Director tomorrow, and
then it would be put into the budget calendar and the City Council would most likely start talking
about it within the next 3 to 4 weeks. Perhaps longer than that based on their work calendar...
My hope would be that they would see it before the September 30th meeting.
Franks: Would they act on it?
Hoffman: No they would not.
Franks: So they would receive our recommendation for discussion and consideration.
Hoffman: They may...city manager's office and then finance director reviews it and then...
Happe: Chairman Franks, one additional comment. When you look at Bandimere, it may be
perceived as low hanging fruit for a city council that is looking for opportunities to see where
their checkbook spending is going. So if Bandimere Community Park is something that this
commission feels very strongly needs to happen in 2003, Todd I don't know if there's any way
that we can enhance our position or further define our support for not only having that park
shelter built, but built in 2003. Just kind of think through if we have not articulated our reasoning
or our position for why that has to happen in 2003, if that wouldn't be an easy line item for a
council looking for ways to turn down our proposed $893,000 total expenditures. I just don't
know if you can put any additional emphasis behind the commission' s request for funds for that
particular facility. I likely will not vote in support of the overall budget for the reasons that I' ve
discussed, but it's just my recommendation that the commission take a look at, see if they can
raise the language of the summary that Todd put together in a way that very much conveys why
we believe that that project needs to move forward in the 2003 plan.
Franks: I think that staff, when this is presented to council will be able to do a pretty good job of
justifying the necessity or importance of that shelter. Todd, you've done a good job of
communicating that to us tonight and when that comes up I feel pretty confident you' 11 be able to
do that. I think that is good we have these discussions on the record so as a part of our recorded
minutes, that these types of ideas are down that...if they wish to really have an understanding of
where we are at exactly and how we arrive at the decision. We certainly provided our minutes
and can look through them and see that pretty clearly so I appreciate you making those comments
for the record and it's certainly one that I endorse as well. Is there any more discussion from the
commission? Okay seeing none then I'd be interested in entertaining a motion. It's been talked
about a little bit. I don't think we've quite reached consensus so it's my understanding
concerning the funding for the Lake Ann Park roadway resurfacing, I think I made it clear how I
feel about it. My personal feeling is that I think that we should submit to the City Council a
budget that this commission feels is the best way to go about doing it to give the City Council that
information for them in their decision making process. How to work from the time line. When is
our meeting scheduled for? September 30th right? That before any specific action is taken by the
council on our submitted budget, that we would certainly have an opportunity at that point to
discuss with them the philosophy behind it. Hear their feedback and potentially request to make
15
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
any changes to better work in a cooperative effort with the council at that time, but I think at this
stage in the game I think it'd be beneficial for us to really stick to what we see as the philosophy.
...that might be coming out is the idea between new development and replacement and repair,
and also maintain some fiscal responsibility within the amount of income that we're likely to
generate on a yearly basis. Given that I'm going to throw it out to anyone who feels...
Stolar: May I suggest that we put this on the table as a motion and then you can amend the
motion. Talk about how we finalize it. So I'd just like to move that we approve staff
recommendation. Put it out there on the table and then you can offer a friendly amendment.
Franks: I certainly go along with that.
Stolar: I move that we approve staff recommendation for 2003 Park and Trail Acquisition and
Development Capital Improvement Program:
Franks: Thank you. Is there any discussion to the.
Stolar: We need a second.
Franks: Yeah, is there a second?
O'Shea: I second.
Franks: Okay, the motion has been moved and seconded. I'll open it up then for discussion on
the motion.
Hoffman: Clarification on the dollar amount. The current staff motion is park dedication
$630,000...fund $263,000. The dollar amount for the thought process that all of Lake Ann
should come out of the general fund would put those numbers at 510 and 33.
Franks: Thank you Todd. Alright, Mr. Stolar's made a motion. It's been seconded. I've opened
it up for discussion on the motion. Are you open to a friendly amendment to your motion? One
that I would propose is that the entire funding for the Lake Ann Park roadway be shifted from 50
percent park dedication, 50 percent general fund to 100 percent from the general fund which
would then shift the figure that's indicated by Mr. Hoffman with the total coming out of park
dedication to be $510,000. The remainder from the general fund of $383,000.
Stolar: I accept that amendment. And the second accepts that change?
Franks: Okay, great. We do have then a motion for consideration. We'll move the previous
question.
Stolar moved, O'Shea seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that
the City Council approve a 2003 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital
Improvement Program totally $893,000 as detailed in the attached reports. All voted in
favor, except Happe who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 5 to 1.
Franks: 5 for, 1 against. Dave, we'll give you the opportunity to state your objection for the
record to the motion.
16
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Happe: I think Rod even with putting the remainder of the Lake Ann Park allocation into the
general fund, my sole opposition is that we are still submitting a total spending package to the
council that exceeds our projected income. While I do believe that we still have a revenue source
capable of covering park and trail objectives for 2003, I believe the proposal as moved still puts
us in a negative balance situation. And for that reason I am opposed to the motion.
Franks: So noted. Todd we'll indicate that the motion did carry 5 to 1. Thank you.
PROGRAM REPORTS: DAVE HUFFMAN 5K MEMORIAL RACE.
Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Franks and the rest of the commission. Tom and I did meet with the
rest of the 5K race committee this evening at 5:15. Going over many of the details for the race
coming up the 14th of September. Everyone's been kind of work around like little busy bees
lately trying to accomplish their portion of the commitment they've got for the race committee.
I'm going to...Todd talked about the kids fun run that was added this year. Tom is kind of
chairing that component or portion of the event so I'll let him explain that here briefly. We've
been working on that very hard and meeting, a lot of meetings with the Vikings, KFAN radio. I
don't know if anybody's heard our spot on the radio. KFAN came to us and Dan Seaman who
lives in town up in the Pheasant Hills area is the General Manager KFAN and a lot of other clear
channel stations in our area. He has run the race in the past and they did come to us last year with
a $2,500 donation in Dave's memory from KFAN. And then also a portion of...and wanted to
know if they could do some advertising for us on the radio. We gladly accepted their free spot
and they were running last week, the week before. Now we're going to have a little bit of a lull
period and then they're going to start the week leading up to the event. Through that connection
with KFAN we're also going to have, it looks like some type of a KFAN public, or the Vikings...
Mike Morris. Superstar. It looks like he's going to lead the race...He did play with Dave kind of
on the tail end of Dave' s career and early to middle of Mike Morris' career so it' s been a real
jewel for us to kind of connect with those partnerships and it's been kind of a fun experience as
well so we're still hoping on right now, we've met with the Vikings several times now and
cheerleaders. We just don't know if there's going to, if they will be here. It certainly is our hope.
They kind of add, Ragnar's very good with the kids last year with taking pictures and it's our
hope that he is there to hand out the medals to the kids as they cross the finish line. The kids
portion of the event. That remains to be seen at this point. If not, we're going to go with Plan B.
So we' ve been very busy ordering tents and portable rest rooms and working with our street
superintendent Mike Wegler to ensure that there's safe streets out there...signs working with
Dave Potts, the Carver County Sheriff' s Department to ensure the same type of... We'll be
putting the signals on flashing red to slow traffic within the race route. We set out notification
letters to all of the residents that are affecting it along the race route and we're really hoping that
this is...versus an inconvenience at this point so. It's a real brief thing. It starts at 9:00 at Lake
Ann by, you know within an hour, typically everybody's out running the race so it's a real fun
festive event. Kathy Huffman and the kids...are coming back again this year. We did confirm
their plane tickets and they should have those. They're e tickets but they should be in their hands
so to speak at this point so they should come in Friday the 13th and leaving on Sunday afternoon
back to the Chicago area. So it's fun working with the race committee. Everybody seems to be
doing a great job... We're okay with volunteers at this point but we certainly could use some
more. Tom will ask you...but the shirts are at the printers right now and we should be getting
those back hopefully by the end of the week or early part of next week. Those again are being
paid for by a donation solely for the shirt cost and then we have a very generous...Screen Printing
in Plymouth will do all the screening for free. So the shirts don't cost us any money and I think
we have a balance in that fund, or Dave Huffman Memorial fund of about $9,300 right now so...
fund balance into the next year. We're always looking for business help. We've had great
17
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
response from our community businesses in helping out with other donations...volunteers. It's
been a very well received event for our area. Knock on wood we'll have good weather again this
year so. Other than that I think we're about, I heard what 50 participants.behind last year but I'm
not all that concerned. Last year we had 100 some people register the day of the race and I know
that we will do that again this year so we're anticipating hopefully more runners but... Einstein's
will be doing bagels and...so great, great event. Any questions at all I can answer from the
commission?
Happe: How many volunteers does it take to pull this thing off?.
Ruegemer: 40 to 60. We have Boy Scouts help with the water stations...two places around
town .... with people actually yelling out times as the runners go by so they're kind of in sync
with their watches. When you have between the street department park maintenance workers,
Carver County Sheriff' s department, and... '
Franks: Are you having us sign up for volunteering duties tonight?
Kelly: As far as the kids run go, we are having a kids run this year. It's free. It's going to start
around 10:00 a.m.. It should be about the same time as the last runners are crossing the finish
line. It is a traffic friendly course. The kids will be running on sidewalks. The race will start, it's
going to be the parking lot by the sidewalk that parallels 101 approaching Highway 5. And
there's a trail cut-off on the right and they will run behind Houlihan' s. Take that boardwalk over
the pond, come out the other side of Houlihan's and make a right turn and head towards the finish
line. It's probably around a quarter to a half mile run. And as far as entertainment, New
Horizons has volunteered to put on some entertainment for the... They're not intending to be a
babysitting service but they are having a magician there just to keep the kids occupied. They'll
hand out goody bags for the kids and the finisher will receive a medal hopefully from...
cheerleaders as they cross the finish line. What I really need is volunteers. If anyone who isn't
running on the 14th, we really need people to help out with the kids race and I hope we'll have
people stationed at different parts throughout the route just to watch the kids and just to make
sure that it's a safely run race. It shouldn't take any more than 15 to 20 minutes so if anyone
wants to volunteer to come out on the 14th and help out with the kids run, it'd be very much
appreciated .... Shouldn't last more than 10-15 minutes.
Stolar: No, how...
Kelly: Probably between a quarter and a half mile.
Happe: Kids will register that day or pre-register...
Kelly: ...probably around 9:45 I'll start to round up the kids in the staging area and then if we
have a lot of kids, probably start them in waves. Have the older kids go first and then the younger
kids and hopefully it will be a good event. Hopefully it will bring out some adults that weren't
planning on running that maybe now they'll make it into a family event. Hopefully we'll get a
critical mass of kids that will allow us to continue this in the future.
Happe: Good idea.
Hoffman: The first volunteer at Highway 5...
18
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Kelly: The boardwalk, I want to make sure because I don't want any of these kids slipping
through so we'll have a couple people on the boardwalk.
Franks: Can we get rid of the goose? Clean it off.
Kelly: I think we're going to clean up and pull out the weeds...
Franks: Good. Well that's a good way to get that done as well then. Well this event just keeps
getting better.
Hoffman: Commissions of the past have always talked about a race...and it's grown. Awesome.
Great to see.
Ruegemer: So if you can give your names to Tom tonight before you leave tonight.
Kelly: Yeah, I'I1 get that sheet of paper out, or I've got a good memory.
Franks: What time does the actual race start at?
Ruegemer: 9:00 a.m. out at Lake Ann Park.
Kelly: ...
Ruegemer: From Americlnn?
Kelly: Yeah.
Ruegemer: Quarter to nine-ish.
Franks: Please drive the last few people over. I remember the last couple years I've driven
people over. Okay, sounds wonderful. So I'm going to encourage everyone if you're here to
volunteer. I have had just a fantastic time volunteering at this event every year. This year I'm
going to run so I plan on doing some stuff beforehand and unless I' m completely exhausted so
we'll see but yeah. You can mark me down for filling in where I can afterwards. And you
certainly have my permission at this time to put everyone on the spot individually and...
Stolar: Is the children's going to start also at Lake Ann?
Kelly: No, not Lake Ann. That's going to start at, it will start and finish at the finish line. So
they' 11 start in the parking lot, start and end in the parking lot of Americlnn.
Franks: Alright. Well thank you Jerry.
Kelly: If you want to e-mail me if you can volunteer, that'd be great so I'm not panicked at...
ADMINISTRATIVE: COMMUNITY CENTER FOCUS GROUP.
Todd Hoffman provided the update on the Community Center Focus Group.
Franks: Will this commission receive formal feedback from this focus group prior to information
going to City Council?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Hoffman: No. The council looks at this as a project...previous conversation was, they talked
about should we just have the park commission do this. And they said no, they wanted a broader
cross section than that... And then should they do a task force? No, they're not looking to do a
full blown task force. And so they're, this report is sent back to the City Council...and the
council had no problem with that last night.
Stolar: This charge statement, that was drafted by.
Hoffman: Drafted by staff based upon the previous conversation with the City Council at a work
session.
Stolar: It seems to me, by having our commission members on it, commission member
committee report, that's how we should get our update. But I would think that it would be
appropriate as an informational item, not necessarily an action item. I don't care if it is forwarded
faster, but around the same time as the council that we get the full briefing from our...
Hoffman: You bet. You'll also get the copy of the report in your administrative packet.
Stolar: So, is this how the type of things have been done in the past when we have representation
that they just present it through that.
Hoffman: ...just a different task...
Franks: Any other comments? Anything that keeps this moving forward is a positive step in my
opinion. We certainly want to support that.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORT. None.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Franks: Any comments on the administrative packet? No?
Kelly: I just have one ....goose program again next year for 2003? Or is that.
Hoffman: We put it in the budget. We skipped one year in the past 10 years and that resulted in
some additional outcry from primarily Lotus Lake or Minnewashta folks. They...
Kelly: I do think it's valuable given the dollars per goose, it's a pretty good program for the
area...
Hoffman: Valuable to those homeowners and so, but is it equitable, I'm not sure about that.
Atkins: I have a question about rental .... if somebody rents an area...
Ruegemer: ...those picnic facility sites are...6:00-7:00 in the morning on both Saturday and
Sunday morning.
Stolar: What about the maintenance issue? What was the situation there?
20
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Ruegemer: That was a unique situation. All those lights are at, this is at Lake Ann in particular
and all those lights are on the timer. They come on... This was at 5:00-6:00 at night middle of
summer. We had tornado sirens and stuff going on at that time. The regional softball tournament
going on at the same time, so that was kind of a unique situation where we shouldn't face that
very often.
Hoffman: They're on a timer, not a photo cell.
Ruegemer: They're on a timer.
Stolar: Part of that discussion was that they tried to call someone and they couldn't get a hold of
anybody.
Hoffman: It's going to be tough to find somebody on a Saturday.
Stolar: I guess they were under the assumption they would have the ability to get a hold of
somebody.
Hoffman: They kind of hoped that they could.
Ruegemer: ...but I was there. It was a unique situation that we would not encounter on a normal,
everyday weekend.
Stolar: From a safety perspective, is there a posting there? Is there a phone or a way for them to
get a hold of anybody for safety issues?
Hoffman: There's a phone there if they want to call 911.
Stolar: Okay.
Hoffman: Then dispatch calls a deputy and then they have a phone list on a variety of issues...
Franks: I did notice one thing on the Canadian geese, in the Figure 5 it says mean number of
Canada geese, and I'm wondering if that was meant to say number of mean geese because when
I'm running down by Lake Susan, they are scary sometimes and they are clogging the trail and
you know.
Hoffman: They want to protect their young.
Franks: Okay. Anything more?
Hoffman: Have you noticed the dead grass at Lake Susan? Along the trail. They've killed the
grass between the trail and Lake Susan from about the beach to the fishing pier, and that's part of
that planting program and Lori Haak, the Water Resource Coordinator will be approaching you as
potential volunteers to plant both aquatic and then the grasses and trees and plants outside of the
water, probably the end of September. It' s a DNR grant management program. Some of these
plants which are aquatic will be actually planted in the water...
Happe: ...public launching on lakes in Chanhassen? Like the dock facilities at Lake Susan for
example.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 27, 2002
Franks: Are you talking about having like boat docking?
Happe: Yes.
Franks: Instead of just.
Happe: Either boat docking or even, I was just wondering if you've ever had this conversation
about more significant or better dock facilities. Not necessarily boat storage or docking them but
just maybe better access docks into the lake. I just didn't know if...
Franks: Only as it's arisen as a maintenance item so.
Hoffman: Lake Susan has never had an access dock. We could certainly budget for one. Lake
Ann does not have an access dock.
Happe: Well they have access ramps but not docks. It's just something that maybe doesn't need
to be addressed immediately but just something that we maybe should think about at some point.
Franks: You're talking about the dock after you land your boat, something to tie up to?
Happe: Yeah, and or you put your dock in and you either have to catch your dock going through
the water and get on your boat that way so we have the access ramps into the lake but we don't
really have a means to get on the boat without jumping in the water and...so just something that
we could look at at some point down the road.
Franks: It's certainly an amenity that'd be worthwhile. We have them at Lotus.
Hoffman: Just Lotus. It would be an embellishment I believe or.
Franks: Enhancement.
Hoffman: Enhancement. I like that word.
Franks: Okay, if there's no further comments or discussion, I'll entertain a motion for
adjournment.
Stolar moved, Happe seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
22
CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 24, 2002
Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Amy O'Shea, Glenn Stolar, Paula Atkins, and Jack
Spizale
MEMBERS ABSENT: Tom Kelly and David Happe
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent; Dale Gregory, Park Maintenance Director; Susan Marek, Recreation Center
Manager
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: As presented.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Franks: Are them any commissioners with any changes to the minutes? Amy?
O'Shea: I have one on page 9. It should be O'Shea instead of Atkins.
Franks: Alright. Are there any other changes to the minutes? Is there a motion to approve the
minutes as amended?
Spizale moved, Stolar seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the
Minutes of the meeting dated August 27, 2002 amended on page 9 to change the statement
made by Atkins to O'Shea. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
REVIEW PROPOSED 2003 PARK AND RECREATION CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PLAN.
Hoffman: Thank you Chair Franks, members of the commission. The next two items are placed
on your agenda simply for refresher prior to next Monday night's joint meeting with the City
Council. Item number 2 is placed on your agenda for a second reason and that is to provide you
with the clarification on the funding source for all of the items which are labeled Capital
Replacement Fund. In conversation with Bruce DeJong, City's Finance Director, this is the
proper location or proposed funding source for these improvements. We have placed them in the
general fund but there was a differentiation between the general fund and the capital replacement
fund. So the CIP as presented here totals $893,000 that the Park Commission is forwarding to
the City Council. I'm not sure if they've received this yet. Probably later on in the capital budget
discussions with Mr. Gerhardt, the City Manager and Mr. DeJong. So the items there are listed
and for park dedication fund and capital replacement fund are self explanatory. There may be
one deletion and that's the carpet at the Rec Center. During that review we discovered that there
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
was still money in this year for carpet at the Rec Center. It was listed as a cut last year but was
never cut, and so Susan's securing quotes for carpet at the Rec Center and we may put that in.
And she's looking at the squares similar to the carpet that's going in the library so you get the bad
stain in one square, you rip it out and put it back down, so that might happen this year. The
remaining items, the other one we looked at this evening, the Lake Ann Park resurfacing. 1972
right Dale, we talked about that installation probably happened?
Gregory: Correct.
Hoffman: Yeah, so you're looking at 30 year old pavement out there. The 240 is for an overlay
so they would patch the worst of what you see there. Put down a petrol mat and then pave over
the top of that again, so you will see some fracturing or the cracks coming back through that. The
worst cracks but some of that alligatoring that you saw, the alligatoring checks, that would hold
through that new application. And then the other items here totally $510,000 in park dedication
fund allocations and $383 in capital replacement fund allocations. Any questions on item 2?
Stolar: One quick question. The cover on the previous memo, it talked about the, in the second
paragraph that the 510 equals $38,000 more than the average of 582. Should that be 482 or,
because we have 510 for park fees?
Hoffman: I think that's 482 plus the.
Stolar: Plus 38 would be... I don't know if this is going to the City Council that we need to
correct it or if this is just for our reminder.
Hoffman: That's a typo. I think what it's supposed to be is, proposed 2003 CIP investment of
park dedication fund which is 510 is $38,000 more than what should be 548. That looks right is
there.
Stolar: Are the numbers on here?
Hoffman: I'll double check that number but I think that number should be $548. The average
income the past 4 years should be 548, not 582.
Stolar: So we're asking for this year would be lower than the average out of the park dedication?
Hoffman: I'll go upstairs during this meeting and I'll find out that answer for you. Find it on file.
Stolar: Or at the next meeting.
Hoffman: Well we want to clarify it now because...
Franks: Any other questions for staff? Okay, seeing none then we'll move onto item number 3
under old business.
REVIEW DISCUSSION TOPICS, JOINT MEETING WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.
Hoffman: Thanks Chair Franks, members of the commission. These were developed probably
back in June or July, and the packet will go out to the City Council tomorrow so if there' s any
modifications or deletions or additions that you would like to see, you're certainly welcome to
make those. Otherwise you will go into next Monday's meeting, which is at 6:45. The times are
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
changed. When this original memo was made back in June, the time was going to be 8:00 p.m.,
but it's 6:45. So 6:45 on Monday you'll have an hour with the City Council.
Franks: Okay. Are there any comments regarding the four discussion points that we have laid
out? Has anyone come up with any kind of an addition in the intervening period? Do any of the
commissioners require any clarification on any of the four items? Great. Okay. My personal
experience in the joint meetings with the City Council is they go best when there's lively
participation from all the commissioners so I would encourage all of you to take some time to
think about these four points so we can come prepared to quickly and succinctly enter those
opinions into the conversation so, great. Alright, thank you Todd. Let's move onto reports.
RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS:
DAVE HUFFMAN 5K MEMORIAL RUN.
Franks: First report that we're considering tonight is recreation programs. Jerry.
Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Franks and members of the commission. We're talking about the
Dave Huffman 5K Memorial 5K Race. That did happen Saturday, September 14th. I thank all of
the commissioners that helped out with that event. Again it was a success in our eyes and it
started out with a little rain that morning, but it certainly stopped by race time. Again we
registered, I think our final numbers were roughly around 300 people. We did very close to 200
runners, walk-up's that morning, which was probably about 50 more walk-up's than last year so
we certainly needed those numbers to kind of make it around that 300 mark ag.ain so. You know
again we did have a lot of involvement from the Minnesota Vikings this year with Ragnar being
out there. With the Vikings Cheerleaders. They did donate a few things for the goody bags. Leo
Lewis who works for the Vikings actually ran the race this year and helped out kind of with the
emceeing at the end. We had really kind of a major sponsor with KFAN who did some on air
promotion for us. Mike Morris was out there. If many of you listen to KFAN in the morning, the
superstar was out there helping out and he emceed kind of at the last minute since Joe Schmitt,
the sportscaster from Channel 5 was supposed to do that again this year, was called out of town
late in the week right before the event because the Twins were clinching the conference title in
Cleveland that weekend. So he was called out of town kind of last minute and Mike graciously
accepted the emceeing duties with that so it was actually a lot of fun. He I think brings a sense of
excitement to the event and I hope to have him back next year, along with Joe Schmitt so. Joe
Schmitt was really fun last year too. He ran the race and that kind of gave some personal
testimony to the crowd afterwards and I think a lot of the crowd liked listening kind of the
Viking's stories from player to player type of thing they kind of shared. I think we as a race
committee I think need to educate people a little bit more as to who Dave was. I think we're so
consumed with this whole idea, concept, special event that I think we're losing focus... A lot of
people came up to us at the race and asked who was Dave Huffman so maybe we need to educate
people a little bit more on that so. The kids race was brand new this year. I gave away 43 medals
for the first year. I think we could do a lot better job on that as well as far as getting the
information out sooner and pulling that together and it was a, kind of a fun event. It was really
kind of fun seeing the kids come down the finish line and Ragnar, the Viking's mascot did kind
of place the medals over the kids necks so it' s kind of fun and he was there along to cheer on the
people as they came across the finish line so. We did meet again tonight and go over kind of
many aspects of the race and we're going to put it to bed now for a while and pick it up sometime
early, late winter. Probably next year. We've already been working on updating information and
securing people for next year. We've done that already. As far as the Race Director and a lot of
our internet obligations that we have so we're moving forward. So if you just look on the second
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
page, it's just kind of the race results per age group. Male and female. How they finished. Their
home town and times. And then this is, I'm not sure if any of you have gone on
Raceberryjam. com, but this is the kind of the official race results from the race from first to last
and everybody inbetween and how they finished per age category and all that. So does anybody
have any questions? I'm dazzling you with paperwork.
Franks: So as far as the bank balance.
Ruegemer: 51 in the bank right now.
Franks: Okay, so that's looking.
Ruegemer: That's exactly where we want it to be. We did increase our donations this year from
1,000 per group to 1,500 this year so we always want, as kind of seeing that 1,000 and 1,500
range per group so we're bank rolling about the amount that we wanted to again so we have some
seed money for next year just in case something may fall through, but a lot of the major
components, the shirts, a lot of those type of things were paid for through Sponsorships.
Franks: Any other questions anyone? Seeing no questions, are there comments from
commissioners?
Stolar: Just commending Chairperson Franks for his run.
Franks: Well thank you. I will comment though that both of my children ran in the kids race and
were very proud finishers so they thought that was just the best. Jerry, I hope that we see that
again next year. My only other comment is about the date that we choose for the race. Because
it's exactly the same day as the Nickel Dickel Race in Waconia. So I'm wondering if there's
every thought about the weekend before or, I don't know what if that conflicts with something. I
remember when I was on the committee there was, we kept trying to find a weekend to see what
it conflicts with so.
Ruegemer: Yeah we certainly had talked about that initially and then kind of over the course of
time, since the race's inception but at this point I think the race committee really feels that we
have something established and I don't know that we're going to be changing the weekends. I
know we go head to head with Nickel Dickel and.
Hoffman: There's one person from Waconia I think.
Franks: Traitor.
Ruegemer: So you know it's very hard to kind of come up with weekends, especially in the fall
time with other races and that going on but.
Franks: Well I guess what I'm seeing is that this is really turning into a pretty close to home,
regional kind of event, which is perfect but we might just be able to draw more from our area and
then if we necessarily weren't conflicting with a race that's you know right next door.
Hoffman: How many people run Nickel Dickel, do we know?
Ruegemer: I don't know. Susan, do you know?
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
Marek: No I don't know the numbers but I do know that all the talk at the rec center is about the
Nickel Dickel race, so just...
Hoffman: Among staff or the public?
Marek: No, the public. Because we talk up the race in our fitness classes, and people are going
oh no, we're doing the Nickel Dickel race.
Hoffman: Been around for longer.
Franks: And it's got the big event that surrounds it as well so obviously they're not going to
consider changing. If any changing's going to be done, it' s going to have to be done on our end
SO.
Ruegemer: And I don't know that that will happen.
Franks: Okay. Just want to bring it to your attention.
Ruegemer: Thank you Rod.
Franks: Okay, seeing no other questions regarding the Dave Huffman 5K, good work to all. And
Jerry, if you would pass that onto the whole race committee, that'd be great too. And Todd, have
we sent a memo to the members of the race committee from the commission?
Hoffman: Not that I'm aware of.
Ruegemer: Shall I draft one?
Franks: If the commission approves, I'd recommend to staff that they forward a memo to the race
committee members and to select sponsors that, with what you decide, thanking them from the
commission for all their hard work in this great event.
2002 LAKE ANN PARK CONCESSION OPERATIONS.
Ruegemer: Moving onto the Lake Ann concession evaluation. As I was paging through the item
I noticed that there was a, the second page was not printed on there so I did pass that out tonight
to you. The one that I passed out. If you look on the back side it's kind of the nuts and bolts of
the financial statement so I'll kind of go through that with you real quick. This year, as you
know, we had quite a bit of rain this summer so that certainly did hamper sales out at the
concession stand. When it wasn't raining it was cold at times, and we just didn't seem to have
the traffic as we have in the past down them. And it sure did appear that the swimming raft did,
getting rid of that, it did slow down some of the activity as well but on the flip side, as I
mentioned, it seems to be kind of going back to kind of a family atmosphere which is I think nice.
With that. It seems like people are bringing their kids back down again and having fun so
hopefully they can open up the pocket books a little bit more and grab some sodas or something
and that's certainly what we look to for the future. Looking at just some general comments. The
slush puppies are always a good thing. The meal deal I think we're going to raise the price on
that next year a little bit. I'm going to do probably a boat rental increase across the board on that.
I think we're slightly low on that so we're just hopefully going to add some components where
we can obtain some additional revenue with that. Looking on the back side of that part of the
new report I sent out, as we look at boat rentals we did increase from last year in that what we're
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
trying to do too is with the picnics coming in, we do a lot of company picnics. I certainly try to
sell, you know if we want to set aside some paddleboats, that sort of thing, it's kind of guaranteed
money for us so we' ve been really trying to help ourselves with that as well and coordinate that
between the companies and the concession staff down there to have those available so that
certainly helps. With the amount of days that we were closed, it did certainly increase the boat
rentals. As we look at the expenditures, concession hours and wages, roughly about the same
bottom line as last year. What I really tried to do even more this year as I have in the past, since
we were a little bit of money in the hole from the lifeguard contract, I really tried to kind of put
the squeeze on our manager out them and myself to kind of watch the bottom dollar on the
supplies and we did cut some money on that, or save some money for the Lake Ann budget
operations so we're in pretty good shape with that. So if we look at our total supplies and wages,
we're at roughly around $12,000 with revenues of about 13.5 so net profit we did make a little bit
more money than last year, just even with the slower year so. And that certainly is our goal from
year to year is to turn a profit, whether it be large or small, it certainly is our goal to do that so.
And if you just look through the rest of the report, we have a memo from our manager, Erin
who's been with us 4 to 5 years. Does a great job. This I think is her last year. She's going to
graduate school. Started this fall so we were very fortunate to have a very excellent worker and
manager down there so. She kind of goes through a lot of the things that we certainly address
from year to year. If you look at, in the next couple of pages, when we have the daily food and
boat sales, starting from May all the way to the last day in August, that certainly includes rain
days and those sort of things. We have kind of our vendor expenses, whether it be Coca Cola or
Watson who supplies the chips and candy and ice cream to Bessel Foods where we get buns and
ketchup sort of thing. You see Target on there. We did something a little different this year. We
went to Target to kind of get our, for the meal deals we had the bag of chips and that. We could
get the chips a little bit cheaper if we go to Target with that so, we're always looking for new
ways to save some money and that seemed to do pretty good for us this year. And then the last
page is just the workers that we had down there. Their hourly wage, total hours and total wages
for the summer and then that all kind of goes back into the report. Does anybody have any
questions?
Spizale: I've got one. Is the raft gone for good?
Ruegemer: Yes.
O'Shea: Jerry, out of curiosity, how do you handle inventory here, or shifts? Do you cash out
every time a shift or?
Ruegemer: We don't cash out during the shift changes since we do have overlap on that, but we
do Z reports at the end of each day, and then we have inventory sheets on a daily basis.
O'Shea: Do you deal with much theft?
Ruegemer: Not really. We had I guess some external or non-employee theft early on when the
building opened, but now that we have our security system that works out there, we started with
a, was it a Barga System from Carver County and that was okay. But since we added our current
security system, we haven't had any break-in's for quite a while.
Franks: Good work on keeping costs down this year. Watching the bottom line. I just want to
make sure that every year this report comes that there's some mention of a slush puppy machine.
Ruegemer: The Bahama Mama was the new one down there this year, which was very popular.
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
Franks: Alright. Well if there's no more comments or questions from commissioners regarding
the park concessions at Lake Ann, then we'll move onto the 2002 Halloween Party coming up
next month.
2002 HALLOWEEN PARTY.
Ruegemer: That is coming up next month. Saturday, October 26th out at the Recreation Center.
Never too early to start asking about volunteers so I'm going to pass a sheet around if there's
anybody interested in that. I'll start that and pass it around. With that, a lot of the same types of
activities as last year. You know games, hay rides, refreshments. Corey has been working with
the, some of the local organizations to obtain volunteers already as well, so I know the Bluff
Creek gym is also arranged this year for the event, so a lot of the games and that sort of thing in
the gym again. A lot of the same types of rooms and set up's as we have in the past so. The
flyers have been done for about 3 weeks now. Sitting in our office. They're raring to go. Corey
will distribute those here by the next week or two to get them to the schools, to get the word out
on those so. Other than that, does anybody have any questions?
Hoffman: There's a devil, a bat...political correctness questions quite often so, it's been in the
news. Devil going to bother the people or is the devil okay?
Spizale: I know witches bother people. I'm not sure about the devil.
Franks: You hate to take things too far but if you can do it another way and it's not a big deal,
why not I guess is my thinking.
Hoffman: Well let's reprint the flyers.
Franks: Oh they've all been printed.
Ruegemer: If you would like that to happen, we certainly can do that.
Hoffman: ...nobody's, these have not gone out.
Franks: Any opinions?
Atkins: I think you'll get some comments. Negative comments. I have a feeling.
Hoffman: This is why we have a park commission.
Spizale: Might be safe to choose something else.
Stolar: What's the cost to reprint?
Ruegemer: Yeah, what's a ream of color papers? 60? 80 bucks? Not a ream, I'm sorry. A case.
Franks: I was going to say, where do you buy paper?
Ruegemer: So probably roughly 100 bucks in paper plus labor.
Franks: And that's all done in-house, you do these?
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
Atkins: I can use the paper that's already printed if you decide to trash those. I'll take them.
Ruegemer: Recycle them or use?
Atkins: No, I run them into time cards.
Franks: Well since we have an offer for an adaptive re-use of the paper, I think there's some at
least consensus here that we should maybe choose a different thing here. What are you, what
would you consider?
Hoffman: There's a thousand of them in artwork, no problem.
Franks: Yes, I'm Sure this was one of them in there but that's why you know.
Hoffman: We'll pick a safe.
Franks: Safe and benign.
Stolar: Have you heard stuff before or is this just a concern you're thinking ahead, in advance
that this may cause issues?
Hoffman: No. I haven't heard any concerns. It's not the public but this kind of stuff is the stuff
that is becoming increasingly sensitive in the public eye. Some people don't like the association
of the devil. Some people don't like Halloween altogether.
Stolar: Yeah, I was going to say well yeah.
Hoffman: It's just their level of comfort, and we try to err on the safe side where we can.
Franks: Why not? It would be our recommendation then to go ahead.
Hoffman: Or you can do a test case. You guys can send it out, and test the sensitivity of our
public.
Stolar: I mean are we going to have decorations watched too? I mean I don't want to get, I mean
it's Halloween.
Franks: Yeah but the difference is that the people who come...
Stolar: ...over here on the poster is different than how we decorate in the.
Franks: Correct.
Stolar: Okay, yes. I think that that's best.
Franks: Yeah, and that's my only thing for bringing this up is that this is going to go home with
everybody.
Stolar: It' s intrusive in those who may not wish to partake versus if someone goes to the center,
they' re there for Halloween.
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
Hoffman: Good description.
Stolar: Okay, thank you.
Franks: Great. Will you still be able to make the, yes. You'll have plenty of time to make
timelines. The only other comment that I have is Oscar and Half Pint. Make sure that their sound
system is adequate and that if there's something that we can do to more distinctly define their
stage area. Like cones with tape, you know that, because it just was not looking safe to me last
year. They had little children running around behind them and the cords were there and you
know the kids were encroaching, encroaching, encroaching, closer and closer and closer, and if
they could back farther up so there's more room for people to sit. Anything else regarding the
Halloween Party? Okay, great.
Hoffman: Decorations are ready.
Marek: Yeah, the entrance to the Rec Center. I just commented to Todd earlier that there's a bit
of a risk we take in having that many pumpkins right out front. We'll see how that goes.
RECREATION CENTER.
Franks: Okay, there are no self supporting programs to report on and Susan, that brings you up
next with the Recreation Center. We appreciate you hanging in there with us this evening.
Marek: Well thank you. Commissioners, thanks for visiting the Rec Center tonight. A bit
unexpected on my part, but glad you could stop out. Things happening at the l~ec Center this falI.
Certainly our traffic cycles with the school year and so we've seen an increase in our traffic.
Tonight when you were there, we did have 3 meetings rooms that were occupied while you were
there. The fourth one, that meeting didn't start until 8:00. So we did have 4 meeting rooms filled
tonight. We also had dance class and then follow that up with an aerobic class tonight as well so.
The only traffic we're missing at this point is the open basketball traffic and with another week of
cold weather I'm sure that will pick up as well. When you walked into the Rec Center, hopefully
you noticed the wonderful decorations that we had at our entrance. As well as the somewhat
meager garden with the park bench installed. Next year it's going to look much better so we look
forward to having a more beautiful entrance in the spring. This fall we're starting a new fitness
class. I believe it's going to be called Balls and Bands, and that is a fitness class. And we're
going to be holding that class in a meeting room, not in the dance studio so it will be our first
adventure in offering fitness classes outside of that traditional setting. We will also offer that
class for free for the week. Or excuse me, for the month of October and then we'll start charging
after that. Every year in December for the last two years, and again coming up this December,
we will have our punch cards on sale. This is when we sell the most punch cards. We'll be
selling a 40 punch card and throwing in a 10 punch card for free. So try to boost the sales here
fight before the end of the calendar year for us. Dance season has begun. We have 3 very young
instructors working at the Rec Center this year so we look forward to some big changes there, and
a more youthful appearance to our dances. All of our instructors are under the age of 24. So it's
been a great start this year with these young instructors and so we look forward to big things from
them. When I put item number 5 into our notes here about carpet replacement is in our future, I
wondered if maybe that was looking into the crystal ball and seeing what I wanted to see, but it
appears that's becoming more firm as time goes on. I do have two quotes that are being prepared
fight now by local carpet dealers and installers. It's possible that we'll split that installation over
the Christmas/New Year break and possibly be able to write those expenses off. Half in one year,
half in the next year to make that work out better financially for us. And our child care program
Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
has resumed. Some of the veteran commissioners remember that this is a program that I struggle
with continually. This year we're offering child care only 3 days a week, and only for 2 hours on
each of those days. I can say that the first 3 weeks of child care have been not impressive. I think
we probably only had 6 different children come and use our facility so it seems we hit a high
point about 2 years ago where we had to make a go of it and we could at least break even and
we've really been struggling with that for the last year and a half. Part of the reason we only
offer it 3 days a week is to minimize our risk. Our financial risk because we just don't seem to
have captured and held that market. So we'll see how that all falls out. I'll have an update with
actual numbers here at the next time you see me which will be in 3 months or so. And then we'll
probably have to take a serious look and decide if it' s something we're going to continue or not.
Hoffman: Very specific market.
Marek: You know it's a hard thing. Everybody wants child care at their own convenience.
Unfortunately a convenience based child care doesn't necessarily lead to profitability for us so
right now we're pretty much just trying to hit stay at home moms who want to come to an aerobic
class, which is where the bulk of our market has been in the past but you know those kids grew
up and now they're in school so, Mrs. O'Shea knows that. Any customers that you can sort of
drum up for us, we appreciate. In the last 2 weeks I did allocate about 200 hours of free gym
space to local sports associations, with the primary winners in the game being the Chanhassen
Athletic Association, and the Chaska Youth Basketball Association. Every year the Rec Center
does contribute about that many hours of free gym space for them to allocate amongst their teams
for practices and games. We did have about 7 different parties involved in vying for that space.
Some were basketball associations. We have lacrosse, soccer, volleyball, I think that's about it.
Obviously we give priority to the in season sports and as well we also give priority to those
associations that have the most participants. So that process went through as usual and we were
able to satisfy moSt parties involved.
Hoffman: But not hours.
Marek: But not hours, correct. It's a hard one with such limited resources from the city. Only
having one gymnasium. Certainly these associations are getting the bulk of their needs satisfied
through the local school districts. And on a bright note, last Friday night was the fourth annual
barnyard boogie. We had 320 people at the Rec Center for the party. Once again the highlight of
the evening is certainly the barnyard animals that can be found, both inside and outside the
building. This year's star animal was a Scottish Highland Calf, that had bright red bushy hair that
covered his eyes. The kids just went nuts for him. It' s a great party and one of the most
successful things we do out there. That's it from the Rec Center.
Franks: Barnyard boogie. Okay. Any questions for Susan regarding the Rec Center?
Spizale: No questions. I'm just impressed on how often these community rooms are rented. I
didn't realize it was that busy.
Marek: During the school year it is. Quite often in the mornings we'll have a mothers group or
bible studies. Usually the afternoons slow down. They're pretty empty. And then we'll have an
after school activity like...Explorer program. That will clear out and then we'll get into the
evening activities which involve some of our own recreation offerings like Tae Kwan Do or
tonight I had Yoga going on. Or private organizations renting, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and
also for profit businesses.
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Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
Spizale: That's a question too. What do the rooms rent out for?
Marek: The rooms that have the kitchenette rent for $12.50 an hour. The rooms that don't have
kitchenettes rent for $10.00 an hour. Generally it's important to keep in mind that the most of the
rentals at the Recreation Center are free rentals and that's through non-profit, city based
organizations. City based organizations. And so we do the majority of the room use is at no
charge.
Spizale: Okay, thanks. I love the bench out there too. It looks great.
O'Shea: Susan, I've got a couple questions because I do remember the days where it was really
packed in the child care. Have you seen, I'm assuming, I haven't looked at the schedule lately.
I'm assuming you've coordinated the fitness classes.
Marek: Right.
O'Shea: Start a little bit after 9:00 so people can get in.
Marek: Yeah, they start at 9:00.
O'Shea: Have you seen a drop in attendance in those at the times that you have child care?
Marek: No, we generally haven't. Other than the drop that we've seen across the board in our
whole fitness class offering. And that drop started of course with the downturn in the economy as
well as the closure of Highway 5. So across the board we have. Specific to that time slot,
nothing unusual.
O'Shea: It'd be interesting to survey those people for a 2 week timeframe of finding out what
ages their children are. You know are they finding alternative options like a neighbor, well I'll
watch them while you go this day and you know swapping that way or if it is kids that are
growing up and now are in school. You know what you're attracting in those fitness classes and
their ages of their children.
Marek: You know in our fitness classes, particularly those that we run at 9:30 a.m., our market
segment is a stay at home person, you know who can come to a class at that time. So that is our
market segment. We used to pull a lot of stay at home parents from the Longacres neighborhood
and then from Stone Creek.
O'Shea: That's why it'd be neat to see where they're coming from now.
Marek: Both of them are groups of people, and they're all repeat customers. We don't have you
know the strangers coming in and coming out of those aerobic classes. It's a core group of
people that continue to come and make up those classes and for those, for that core group, their
children have gotten older. But you know there's got to be people out there.
O'Shea: That's just it, is that you're not having new participants. You know you're not building
your base.
Marek: At this point, no. It seems to be a lot of repeat.
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Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
O'Shea: So you know, so you don't have to survey. You know that the people coming are, their
kids are older now?
Marek: Yes. And it is kind of, it's kind of a catch-22 because we would like to increase
participation but then do we need to increase child care or are they not coming because we don't
have a lot of child care conveniently available, or are they not coming for another reason? It's
been a rough year for the Rec Center in that we' ve been more level. It hasn't been a real growth
year for us.
Franks: I think next year will be a more telling year with Highway 5 open.
Marek: I hope so. Also, by the way. Just another thing that happened a year ago in September.
The school start times changed drastically from the previous year. Swung more than an hour
difference in school start times in District 112, so that also affected people's ability to participate
because maybe they had older children who's schools ended up starting later. That also affected
it.
O'Shea: Yeah, Bluff Creek didn't change more than 5 minutes but maybe.
Marek: From this year to last year, but the previous year they moved an hour. They used to start
at 9:20. Now they start at 8:20.
O' Shea: Interesting though because you want to pull in new people somehow.
Hoffman: Programming isn't that large so it doesn't take a very drastic change to show, if you're
down at all you have problems. If you go up, you're going to feel a little bit more comfortable.
That's where...been for the last 6 years.
Marek: I have to have 10 children show up for an hour each day we're open to pay for it.
Franks: Not happening?
Marek: No.
Franks: Well let's take a look at your report next quarter. You'll have some hard numbers for us
then so we can really see what's going on. But I like to hear that the building's being used and
being used by the community so. We always put you last Mr. Gregory.
Gregory: It's okay, I can wait.
Franks: You have to wait around until we're all done.
PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
Gregory: That's okay. Good evening commissioners. Summer activities in the park have all
come to an end. The only thing we' ve got going now is fall soccer and some football yet, so all
of our kids are back in school so we don't have any of the high school kids and that so all of our
grass cutting and everything and that now has fallen onto what I call a senior seasonals, and the
retired people that are here and that. We do have 4 of those that work for us and they do an
extraordinary job. I mean they come early in spring and help us out, and through summer, and
they can stay until we don't need them anymore so without them we'd really be up a creek with
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Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
cutting grass so they do a lot for us. On a sad note, we did have one, I don't know if you guys
remember Bob Bish. He would work downtown. This was his third year. Always go around, he
had a big straw hat on, pushing a lawnmower. He did have a heart attack this year, and he ended
up with a triple by-pass but 10 days after his operation and that he was out walking on the streets
already so he's, he walks continually. He walks 5 miles a day and so he's really, when he'd come
to work for us and that, we talked about putting him on a lawnmower and that and he said he
wants to push one. He doesn't want to ride. And I think he's 78.
Hoffman: Retired postman.
Gregory: Retired postman and that. Now whether he's coming back next year I don't know and
that. I mean he's really doing good. He's in, you know the doctor says he's doing good shape
and that so we'll see what happens. He really enjoys working for us and that so.
Hoffman: Over the years he might be our oldest employee.
Gregory: Probably is. He's probably our oldest employee. Well he's really a good guy. Also
Jerry helped out this year with our soccer fields. We were able to take two of them out of the
rotation. One at Bandimere and one at Lake Ann so we were able to get in and re-seed those and
get them, try to get them in a lot better shape for next year. And we've been talking about that,
trying to get one or two out, or whatever we can in the fall to actually re-seed and get them going
again. So if that holds true each year and that, maybe we can do that with one or two and that, I
mean it would be great. It will help us with our soccer fields. The restoration at Lake Ann, going
in by the building. Our plans were really to have that all done by the 4t~ of July for everything
and that. Weather didn't help us out at all. We weren't able to get in there. So we decided to
wait until fall and do the seeding and that in September. So we've got everything, it's all graded
out. We've got all the seeding done that we need to do. We've got a little bit of sod that's got to
be laid right in front of the building and on the other side by one of our catch basins and that
down there, and that should be done probably next week so that project will be completed all by
next week. We were able to get the STS again in. They came in. We have for 2 days we had 10
people each day and we did all the wood chipping at Bluff Creek, the elementary, the rec center,
all the way down Coulter Drive and then we also went into some of our parks and re-did that so I
mean those people are a big help for us and they did do a lot of work on our picnic tables,
painting and different things and that so we call on them as much as we can and we've gotten to
know the guy in charge of them so whenever he's got some time and that, he gives us a call right
away and sees if I've got work which, we kind of always try to keep something on the back so we
can bring them in. It works good. He's got a good crew there.
Hoffman: Sentenced to Service.
Gregory: Sentenced to Serve, right. We also, these are the older people in that they bring them
out during the week. Occasionally they have the juveniles, but they can only come on Saturdays.
It's real tough for us to have anything for them to do unless it's like, like I say, unless it's painting
soccer goals or stuff like that where they can do it outside and not. We don't have to have
somebody there all the time with them, so it's tougher with those, but again we try to
accommodate them if we possibly can. We are in the process of overlaying some of our trails.
We should be starting on those in probably a week. We've got about a half of mile of trails that
will be overlayed and also the South Lotus Lake boat access and the parking lots. It's going to be
completely redone this year. So we're down there right now. We've had a water problem on the
one side of that parking lot. We cured that problem with drain tile and found out where the
water's coming from so we've addressed that and like I say, I'm meeting Thursday morning with
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Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
the blacktopping guy to go through them and we should be going in about a week. Week to 10
days and it will be done. One other note I have on there is about elm. Dutch elm disease. For
some reason and that, it's really popping up again this year all over in that we've got several in
some of our parks that have died. Bandimere has got some down there and we've definitely got
to take care of them. There's different areas that I've got an ongoing list right now and those will
be addressed this fall. When we do our trails we go through all the trails and do all the brushing
and that so we can get through with the trucks for plowing and anything in the way for people
walking through, we try to address that and get it all done so. That's pretty much everything that
we're in the process of doing right now. Just trying to keep up with ongoing maintenance
problems. We' ve got one other project that we will be starting probably next week, is Carver
Beach. We've got a real erosion problem around the swimming beach area. We're losing beach
area and we've got the okay to go in there, that we're going to be rocking the whole area except
for right where the beach is. That will be, in fact the guys are going to be going down there, are
going to get rocks and everything tomorrow so that' s, we will be working on that probably
Thursday and Friday this week already. Try and eliminate some of the erosion down there. Any
questions?
Franks: I have to tell you, great summer. Everything looked good as far as I could see all
summer long so could tell you guys are out there working.
Gregory: We had a year with a lot of rain and I don't think we've cut as much grass as we ever
had. It is starting to slow down now and thin out and that, but I mean we're still cutting, well
especially ballfields and that, we're still cutting those things and that 2 times a week. And then
during the summer, like I say, it's really tough the way it was growing, to keep up with. We did
have to vacuum several of them every once in a while because by the time you got back the
second time, they were too high already. And some of the problems, we do mow in the rain. I
mean we can't afford to not mow if it's drizzling out or raining a little bit. The guys are real
good. I mean they keep mowing unless it's really bad, but if we give up a day of mowing, that
puts us way back.
Hoffman: Then they can't sleep at night.
Gregory: Well we're mowing, on an average we're mowing over 400 acres a week, and actually
more than that because the soccer fields and ballfields all get done twice a week.
Franks: Well good job staying on top of it. Well if there's no more questions regarding park or
trail maintenance, we'll move onto committee reports. I don't believe there's any commissioners
present tonight that are serving on a committee. So we' 11 open it up for any commission member
presentations.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Franks: Are there any commissioners wishing to make a presentation?
Stolar: Just a comment. During the tour today, Todd had mentioned that we might want to ask
staff to start looking at the master plan around Pulte and that area, so that we can get ahead of the
game as to how we want to look at that area behind the Pulte development.
Franks: As far as development?
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Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
Stolar: Well the park area, yeah. The master plan. What we want to do with that open space. So
I don't know if that's a motion or if that's, this is the appropriate place.
Hoffman: Make a motion.
Franks: Be more than willing to entertain a motion regarding that, if someone wants to put one
together.
Stolar: On the fly.
Franks: On the fly.
Stolar: Motion that we ask staff to begin work on developing a master plan for the open space
around the Pulte development.
Franks: Is there a second to the motion?
Spizale: Second.
Stolar moved, Spizale seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission direct staff to
begin work on developing a master plan for the open space around the Pulte development.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Franks: Todd, you'll pick an agenda.
Hoffman: We'll formalize that into an agenda item and bring it back.
Franks: Okay, when it's appropriate. Thanks. If there's no other presentations, then we can take
a look at the administrative packet. Are there any comments regarding the administrative packet?
Jerry just one that I have again is, you know it's every month just the comments for the park
shelters and the park rentals are just tops so great. I just love seeing that again and again. People
being pleased with using our facilities here.
Spizale: I do want to note the question that was asked of Director Hoffman's kid. What's the
answer? Are they amateurs or pros... It's on, which one.
Hoffman: Oh the Rotary one.
Spizale: Yeah...
Stolar: It's fun reading these things when you get little comments like that in there.
Hoffman: That was Mr. Slagle.
Franks: Any other comments regarding the administrative packet? I guess I did have one
comment. It's popped up in our administrative packet before, but Eden Prairie's move to go
completely non-smoking on any city owned properties. And I know that we've kind of kicked
that discussion topic around, but now with them making such a move like that, I'm wondering if
you've received any kinds of calls along those lines too, or comments from.
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Park and Rec Commission - September 24, 2002
Hoffman: Nothing recently. Jerry is working, smoke free policy for youth facilities. At that time
we could talk about whether that...broaden or not.
Franks: Well, we'll wait for that. Okay, well if there's nothing more.
Hoffman: I have the math on CIP.
Franks: Great.
Hoffman: And it wasn't even close so it was a matter of old math, mixing old math with new
math, which turned into something that we didn't catch and perhaps it would have changed Mr.
Happe's motion, or vote last time around so I apologize for that. But if you go to that second
paragraph, the proposed 2003 CIP. Investment in park dedication dollars is, the correct number is
$72,000 less than the funds annual average income for the past 4 years of $582,000. So it's
$72,000 less. Our average income for the past 4 years, in '98 it was $561,000. In '99 it was
$699,000, which I believe may be the record year in park dedication in this town. For the city.
2000, $631,000. And then continuing on the downward trend which will continue again this year.
It may level off is 2001, $435,000 so that's an average of $582. Then there's, so knowing this, a
little farther down the paragraph, it's apparent that the proposed 2003 CIP investment level of
over 500,000, being 510, is fairly aggressive. So I apologize for those errors in those are the
corrected numbers. I will change this report as it goes to City Manager and before it goes to the
City Council.
Franks: Thank you. That clears that up?
Stolar: Yes.
Atkins moved, Stolar seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission adjourn. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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