4. Consider Request of Southwest Metro Trail Association to Utilize Southwest Regional Light Rail Transit Route as a Snowmobile TrailCITY OF 4,
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739 Action by City Administrator
Endorsed
Modified
Rejecte
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager F -5_ '�
Detc Submitted to Commission
FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
Date Submitted to Council
lO — �L
DATE: October 4, 1994
SUBJ: Recommendation from the Park and Recreation Commission in Regard to
I Snowmobiling on the Southwest Regional Light Rail Transit Route
' BACKGROUND INFORMATION
f
On March 22, 1994, Mr. LeRoy Biteler, representing the Chanhassen snowmobilers and
' Southwest Metro Trails, made a visitor presentation before the Park and Recreation
Commission in regard to the aforementioned `issue. A, written letter of request dated March
14, 1994, from Mr. Biteler was also presented to the commission. Upon completing their
discussion that evening, the commission directed me to formally place this issue on a future
agenda. �
' On June 28, 1994, the commission,` formally reviewed the'rail Association's request. The
item was published in the Chanhassen Villager, a neighbo4 " od letter was distributed to
residents in the area of the ,trail;' and the Snowmobile Association was notified. Upon taking
' public comment and discussing the issue among commission - Pembers, the following motion
was made: 0�����
A second motion was made by Andrews, seconded by Manders that the Park
' and Recreation Commission would recommend to prohibit snowmobiling on
the Southwest Regional LRT trail route. The motion tied with a 3 -3 vote. The
motion failed.
MEMORANDUM
•' Mr. Don Ashworth
October 4, 1994
' Page 2
With no other alternatives available, Chairperson Andrews chose to pass the issue on to the
city council with a split vote.
' On August 22 1994 the Chanhassen City Council reviewed this issue for the first time,
g t3'
' resulting in 17 pages of verbatim minutes. Upon taking public comment and concluding their
discussion, the city council chose to table the request of the Southwest Metro Trail
Association awaiting further resolution by the Park and Recreation Commission.
' On September 27, 1994, at the direction of the city council, the Park and Recreation
Commission reviewed this issue a second time and took the following action:
Commissioner Huffman moved, Commissioner Roeser seconded to
recommend the Chanhassen City Council make the Southwest Regional
' Light Rail Transit route available to snowmobilers during the winter
months, no other motorized vehicles will be allowed, signage, hours of use,
speed limits and other enforcement rules will be worked out with the
' Department of Public Safety officials, city officials, and other pertinent
folks pending city council approval of this recommendation.
Commissioners Lash, Meger, Huffman and Roeser were in favor of the
' motion. Commissioners Berg, Manders and Andrews were opposed. The
motion carried with a 4 -3 vote.
' Action Required of the City Council
To bring this nearly 7 month process one step closer to resolution, I am asking the city
' council to render a decision in this regard. As you are aware, in the event of a motion in the
favor of the snowmobilers, a formal request from the City of Chanhassen for winter trail use
must be submitted to Hennepin Parks (in order to utilize the segment of trail under their
jurisdiction). Hennepin Parks may grant approval of such a request through a special permit.
The snow season is upon us. I await direction from the city council.
Attachments
1. Park and Recreation Commission Item No. 2 dated September 20, 1994, titled
"Consider Request of Southwest Metro Trail Association to Utilize Southwest
' Regional Light Rail Transit Route as a Snowmobile Trail and Resulting Minutes.
2. Letter of notification distributed to residents in the area of the trail and other interested
parties who have registered their names on record at previous meetings.
3. Correspondence which has been received since the preparation of Item No. 2.
I.
CHANHASSEN PARK AND ' I
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING '
SEPTEMBER 27, 1994
Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. ,
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Jan Lash, Jim Manders, Ron Roeser, Fred Berg, Jane
Meger, and Dave Huffman
'
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director; Jerry Ruegemer,
Recreation Supervisor; Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor; and Michelle Braun, Recreation
'
Intern
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
CONSIDER REQUEST OF SOUTHWEST METRO TRAIL ASSOCIATION TO
'
UTILIZE SOUTHWEST REGIONAL LIGHT RAIL TRAIL ROUTE AS A
SNOWMOBILE ROUTE.
'
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Andrews: Before we move on to asking people from the audience to speak, I'd like to just
'
take a moment here to again emphasize or re- emphasize what Todd said. If you have spoken
at our prior meeting and you wish to speak tonight, I wish you would keep your comments to
'
an absolute minimum and summarize your position. I would not like to have a verbatim
recitation of all the details, facts and figures because I don't think we need those. We have
those in our packet for us to read, which we all have done. If you are speaking for the first
'
time, please do feel free to come forward and state your name and address and state your
viewpoint regarding this issue. At this time I'd like to ask if there's anybody who wishes to
step forward and speak.
'
Brad Blomquist: Hi. My name is Brad Blomquist. I'm the trail coordinator for the
Chanhassen Club for the year '94 -95.
,
Huffman: Quick question. Have we heard from you before?
Brad Blomquist: No.
Huffman: Okay. I mean I'm not trying to be rude about this but we've had 17 pages of this
i
and Leroy's done an outstanding job and unless there is something brand new. And again,
I'm not trying to be rude but we have heard from everybody. And I apologize for this but.
Okay, but do you understand what I'm saying though?
,
I ,' Park and Rec Commission - September 27, 1994
Brad Blomquist: Okay. I won't hash over what I think is.
' Huffman: Because a lot of it's been hashed over. I mean I'm serious. And I'm just saying,
we've heard a ton so, I want to listen to it but we've heard.
' Brad Blomquist: Okay. I'll skip a couple items then.
Huffman: Thank you. Skip a lot of items.
' Lash: Stick to the new stuff.
Huffman: Yeah, because we've heard it.
Brad Blomquist: Has there been any discussion whether or not this is going to be designated
snowmobiling only, or not designated for cross country skiing?
' Andrews: No. That has not been determined.
Brad Blomquist: Okay. I guess if it was designated for snowmobiling, I guess that's what I'd
' recommend. I mean if people want to cross country ski, they can cross country ski but it
wouldn't be designated as a ski trail.
' Andrews: I don't think we're considering to designate it a ski trail but I also don't think
we're here to restrict it to snowmobiles only. I don't think that would be, I can't speak for
everyone but I don't think we could support an exclusive use situation here. I understand
' what you're saying though. But our intent is not to make it a groomed cross country trail,
no. It's not. It's not going to happen.
' Brad Blomquist: Okay. But yeah, if it was a designated ski trail, then that would be a whole
new ball game because that's kind of what I wanted to clarify.
' Andrews: No, our intent was not to designate.
Brad Blomquist: Okay. That's all I had.
Andrews: Thank Y ou.
' Lash: That was great Brad.
Park and Rec Commission - September 27, 1994 ,
Huffman: Thank you. No, we want to give you that opportunity but honestly we've got 17
pages here and a 2 1/2 hour City Council meeting and if you've got something new, we'd I
love to hear it.
Brad Blomquist: There is really nothing new. '
Huffman: Alright. I'm not trying to cut anybody off but we've got reams of stuff. Thank
you. '
Andrews: Thank you. Is there anybody else who wishes to speak? Is there anybody on the
commission here that wishes to state their viewpoint or any comments at this time? '
Berg: I've got some questions. Maybe because I wasn't here when we took the initial vote.
Maybe my questions have been asked but I guess I have to ask them of the snowmobilers '
and/or the neighborhood folks who are here. My first one. What is the closest the trail is to
a home? How close is the nearest home to the trail? _
LeRoy Biteler: I can address that. I'm LeRoy Biteler. I'll speak for our club. It's
difficult... to figure that out. As I mentioned in the letter, there is no home that could be
legally any closer, to the best of our knowledge, than 80 feet from the trail. If I were to give '
you an estimate, I would say most of the homes are 200 feet plus away from that trail.
That's being very realistic.
Huffman: But we don't know.
LeRoy Biteler: We don't know that, exactly. '
Hoffman: Here they are. Those two are about the closest. This one and this one. '
Berg: What's the scale?
Hoffman: This is 1 inch equals 100 feet. So 150 feet then.
Berg: Next question then in relation to that. The sheet that you gave us on the decibel test, I
don't recall. Was it 50 feet that these were tested? These 10 machines were tested. 50 feet? I �
LeRoy Biteler: Ah yes it was. I
Berg: Okay, the closest is 80 feet. Can you give me the approximation of what the decibel
rate would be? How does it drop? Does it drop proportionately per 50 feet? 1
.' Park and Rec Commission - September 27, 1994
' Andrew: No, it's expentionally.
' LeRoy Biteler: It's what?
Andrews: It's expenetionally. So it would be twice the distance is 1/4 the volume.
'
LeRoy iteler: And if you look at the first information piece of information letter on
Y Y �P
' decibel range contained in the Minnesota State Educational brochure. It says on there, clear
over to the right, after every so many distances it doubles or something like that. Do you
have that packet with you?
' Berg: Yes.
' LeRoy Biteler: Okay. I can show you that if you give me a second. This piece right here.
This is what you want to read. That's the only one I have. You'll have to read that
verbatim. I think that will help answer your questions.
Berg: Well when I saw this, it didn't make any sense to me either and it doesn't make any
sense as I'm looking at it now. Maybe you can interpret it for those of us who aren't used to
looking at such.
LeRoy Biteler: Okay. Let me get a copy.
' Berg: Here, you can have this one back. I've got mine too.
LeRoy Biteler: Well I think you need to look at that while I interpret that. Let's take a look,
look prior 1972, the bottom of the page. Snowmobiles traveling at 20 mph had a decibel
rating of somewhere around about 80. Do you follow that off to the left? At 10 mph it had
t a decibel rating of around 72. That's machines in 1972. I think we can jump, if you
understand that, you could jump right from 1975 and look at 20 mph. The decibels were
about 73. There it is. At 10 mph in 1975, snowmobiles from that vintage were 65. If you
' took that vintage of snowmobile at full throttle, decibels are by law not to exceed 78. Most
of them we see out there today are 75 and older.
' Berg: Most, 90 %?
' LeRoy Biteler: I'd say 90 %. Sure. That's almost 20 years old.
Berg: I don't know if you know the answer to this one but these 10 machines that were
tested, were they in pretty good shape? Were they pretty finely tuned?
4
Park and Rec Commission - September 27, 1994 ,'
LeRoy Biteler: Absolutely.
Berg: And assuming that not every snowmobile on this trail is going to be as finely tuned, '
what's the ratio then? How much decibels can we except if the machine is not tuned
properly?
LeRoy Biteler: Boy, that's like asking how many automobiles have poor mufflers on them?
Berg: A lot? A little? Could I tell the difference if I was up in a home 80 feet away? ,
LeRoy Biteler: I'd say you may have 10 %. '
Berg: Okay. I think that's all the questions I have at this point.
Manders: I didn't have any questions but I had a couple brief comments. '
Andrews: Okay. I
Manders: My primary concern with this decision is a safety concern, and that's all I have to
say. '
Lash: Safety for who?
Manders: Safe for the people on the trail and the crossing roads. So whomever's on the '
Safety P P g
trail and where they cross roads is, there's no, I mean it's Bluff Creek is the one I'm thinking '
of that you can go straight through that and that could be a real accident potential there.
Depending on how it's set up.
Andrews: Any other comments? I have none. '
Berg: I have a couple comments in addition to my questions, if I'm not out of order. I
Andrews: Please.
Berg: My concerns are the curfew. I'm not sure that the 10:00 is something I'm comfortable '
with. I'd like to see if we move to allow this open to snowmobiles, I'd like to see us talking
about a reduced speed limit through that area. Again referring to the decible chart. I noticed '
that on the newer machines, 4, 6 and 7 in particular, there's a considerably drop off in decibel
level when drop from 40 to 20 and I would be in favor of seeing that type of speed limit
there amongst these homes and have it well posted so there's no doubt about what it is that I
J Park and Rec Commission - September 27, 1994
' we're expecting. And I have a question about the enforcement. To me the enforcement is
just as important from the safety point of view and the noise point of view. Is this
enforcement only going to be on complaint only or can we expect that there will be regular
patrol, if there is such a thing, on this trail. Is there now any type of patrol system on these
trails or is just if someone calls in with a complaint?
' Hoffman: ...club members might be able to eak eloquently to this.
sP more elo q
' Lash: I know there are DNR officers out occasionally.
' Hoffman: Yeah, they set up an occasional check point but I would say the majority of the
enforcement is on complaint.
' Andrews: My question regarding enforcement would be, who's responsibility is it? I mean
this is a Hennepin County project in Carver County being passed over to Chanhassen. So
who's going to be responsible for enforcement?
' Hoffman: City of Chanhassen.
' Lash: So if the snowmobile club were to cooperate with the enforcement, would they, I mean
they're citizens, they would not have, I'm assuming they wouldn't have the authority to
actually ticket anyone or do anything like that. Would we be able to provide public safety
' officers who could actually ticket people or how could we see that that enforcement is,
especially initially each season when people need to be reminded that there are restrictions.
Who would have the authority to actually give citations?
Hoffman: A licensed police officer for the city of Chanhassen or Carver County Deputy or
an official from the Department of Natural Resources.
' Lash: And do you think that we could get cooperation from them to work with the
snowmobile club to provide enforcement each season?
Hoffman: I'm sure there would be cooperation...
Andrews: I guess one point would be there that if a disturbance, you know it may not be a
snowmobiler so let's not say that but if somebody you know riding a mini -bike through there
in the summer, by the time an enforcement officer could get there, that person could be miles
' away. Same would go with snowmobiles. If somebody calls at 3:00 in the morning.
1
Park and Rec Commission - September 27, 1994
Huffman: We're going to have the same issue regarding, we've got dogs running through the
park... '
Andrews: Yeah, I mean it's hit and miss at best.
Huffman: We can argue that 50 ways. You know it's in many cases everywhere. '
Lash: Do you have more? I
Berg: Well my concern I guess is not with the snowmobile club. I wouldn't want to create
that impression. My concern is with the road snowmobilers out there who aren't going to be '
affected by the rules and regulations of the snowmobile club that seems to be pretty
conscientious. I guess my only last thought would be that if we can't be sure of the type of
enforcement that we think is appropriate, then this should be an issue that is looked at every I
year.
Andrews: I had the same idea. That this perhaps could be looked upon as a conditionally ,
renewable privilege if granted. Any other comments?
Lash: My only comment that I had was that in forming my decision for tonight, I used our '
mission statement as my guide and just for the record, for anyone, any of the residents.
Either snowmobile club members. I think they need to be aware that our mission is to
provide quality recreational opportunities for all citizens of Chanhassen in a financially '
responsible manner while preserving natural amenities and I used that as my guide.
Andrews: I'd like to have a motion. '
Huffman: I'd like to make a recommendation, if it's alright, that the Park and Rec Board '
recommend to the City Council the Regional Light Rail Transit Route running through
Chanhassen be made available to snowmobiles during the winter month. No other motorized
vehicles will be allowed. Signage, hours of use, speed limits and other enforcement rules will '
be worked out with the Department of Safety officials. City officials and other pertinent
folks after City Council approval.
Meger: I would just add to the motion too that we put it on a one year trial basis. '
Huffman: I remove my motion then and somebody else is going to have to say that. I want ,
to get this thing done and if we keep going back and forth, back and forth, what will
inevitably happen is that we will have more developments come in here and it will be gone in
3 years. I would like to see this really be put down. We're not asking to go through '
j Park and Rec Commission - September 27, 1994
' neighborhoods. They're not asking to move them through other areas and it will turn into
Eden Prairie. I would really like to see this happen. We could put enforcement, we can put
' speed limits and signage but if we keep putting conditions on everything in terms of a year's
time and a year's time, a year's time, we're going to go to these battles time and time again.
Andrews: Okay. For the record then, that amendment is rejected by the maker of the
motion. Is there a second to the motion as it was originally stated?
' Roeser: I second it.
' Andrews: Okay. With a second. Is there any further discussion of that motion?
Huffman moved, Roeser seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend
' that the City Council approve the Southwest Metro Trail Association's request to utilize
the Southwest Regional Light Rail Transit route as a snowmobile route during the
winter months. No other motorized vehicles will be allowed. Signage, hours of use,
' speed limits and other enforcement rules will be worked out with the Department of
Public Safety officials. All voted in favor, excpet Berg, Manders and Andrews who
' opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 3.
Hoffman: It will go to City Council on October 10th.
' Andrews: Thanks for being here to make sure this didn't go deadlock again.
1
3
Dear Resident:
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE 0 P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
On September 27, 1994, the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission took the following
action in regard to the Southwest Metro Trail Association's request to utilize the Southwest
Regional Light Rail Transit route as a snowmobile trail.
Commissioner Huffman moved, Commissioner Roeser seconded to
recommend the Chanhassen City Council make the Southwest Regional
Light Rail Transit route available to sf�wmobilers during the winter
months, no other motorized vehicles v011 be allowed, signage, hours of use,
speed limits and other enforcement rules mill be worked out with the
�..,
Department of Public Safety official-`cityfficials and other pertinent
folks pending city council approval's this
Commissioners Lash, Meger, l
motion. Commissioners Berg,
motion passed with a 4 to 3 vt
and Roeser were in favor of the
and Andrews were opposed. The
The city council will review this r ommendation on Moi*y, October 10. If you would like
to provide the city council with input in this regard and ar6 able to attend this meeting, please
feel free to mail your comments to the attention of the Mayer and City Council at 690
Coulter Drive, Chanhassen; MN 55317..
S
Todd Hoffman 611
Park and Recreation Director
Attachment: October 10, 1994 City Council Agenda
PC: Don Ashworth, City Manager
Park and Recreation Commission
Southwest Metro Trail Association
II
u
J
October 3, 1994
t k Mackenzie
10420 Bluff Circle
C haska, MN 55318
ohn Lonstein
559 Pennsylvania Ave. No.
r eapolis, MN 55427
g eff Michell
961 Deerbrook Dr.
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Leon Mesenbrink
t 50 Flying Cloud Dr.
haska, MN 55318
t onald Dudycha
1 Oriole Lane
IFAAX'C'elsior, MN 55331
L ichael Boylan
17700 Southridge Court
r innetonka, MN 55345
t an Tester
30 Flying Cloud Dr.
haska, MN 55318
I emus Bartholow
841 Deerbrook Dr.
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Richard Denman
ff 105 Forestview Lane
lymouth, MN 55442
k errance Beauchane
,IPox 23
hanhassen, MN 55317
Lee Anderson
10441 Bluff Circle
Chaska, MN 55318
Gary Koch
9901 Deerbrook Dr.
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Leland Gohlike
11661 Myeron Rd.
Stillwater, MN 55082
Joseph Kandiko
10421 Bluff Circle
Chaska, MN 55318
John Revier
P.O. Box 358
Chanhassen, MN
Andrew Ginder
9821 Deerbrook Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Mary Duher
9940 Deerbrook Dr.
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Vernon Teich
220 Flying Cloud Drive
Chaska, MN 55318
Richard Niemi
10460 Bluff Circle
Chaska, MN 55318
David J. Peller
1819 Haeg Dr.
55317 Bloomington, MN 55431
Paul Taunton
10125 Crosstown Cir. #310
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
LaVeme Vassar
285 Flying Cloud Drive
Shakopee, MN 55379
Gregory Lawler
9900 Deerbrook Dr.
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Thomas Zwiers
11111 Deuce Road
Elko, MN 55020
Alvin Lebens
460 Flying Cloud Drive
Chaska, MN 55318
Everett Olson
1675 Flying Cloud Dr.
Chaska, MN 55318
Ari Fuad
6645 Cherokee Tr. West
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
John S. Poulos
7350 Bristol Village #321
Bloomington, MN 55438
Wilfred Dahlke Jr.
1705 Flying Cloud Drive
Chaska, MN 55318
Willard Halver
470 Flying Cloud Drive
Chaska, MN 55318
Chester J. Teich Thomas Niebeling Michael Redmond
825 Flying Cloud Drive 10360 Heidi Lane 10380 Heidi Lane '.
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
Edward Mueller Daniel Smith Paul Harmel ,
1251 Hess Farm Circle 1020 Hesse Farm Road 1075 Hesse Farm Road '
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
Howard Noziska Roger Brown Sorenson Properties '
1120 Hesse Farm Road 1200 Hesse Farm Road J. Michael Sorenson
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 Rt. 2. Box 187K
Belle Plaine, MN 56011 '
Curtis Bardal
Harold Hesse
Richard Bue
'
10301 Heidi Lane
1425 Bluff Creek Drive
10361 Heidi Lane
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Richard Dee
John Force
Wm. E. Harder
1201 Hesse Farm Circle
1001 Hesse Farm Road
1025 Hesse Farm Road
t
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Frayne Johnsen
Bruce Rech
Eugene Junker
1100 Hesse Farm Road
1180 Hesse Farm Road
1250 Hesse Farm Road
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
t
'
Joseph Notermann
Charles MacBlane
John E. Trusheim
1205 West 6th Ave.
10320 Heidi Lane
10341 Heidi Lane
Shakopee, MN 55379
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
'
Mark Briol
Sheryl Hough
Paul Allen
'
10377 Heidi Lane
1225 Hesse Farm Circle
1002 Hesse Farm Road
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Todd J. Rogers
Robert Perry
Gary Wehrwein
1101 Hesse Farm Road
1181 Hesse Farm Road
1301 Hesse Farm Road
'
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Robert Steffes
Russel Barto
Tim Wise
1350 Hesse Farm Road
400 Lakota Lane
425 Lakota Lane
'
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
keval Medh
Verne Severson Debra L. Wendorg
f 535 Lakota Lane 675 Lakota Lane 740 Vogelsberg Trail
haska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
M ichael
Arnold
LaVerne Wheeler
N.A. Monroe
1400 Hesse Farm Road
445 Lakota Lane
565 Lakota Lane
If haska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
k ois A. Riesgraf
Allen Rothe
Nick Evanoff
20 Vogelsberg Trail
750 Vogelsberg Trail
1401 Hesse Farm Road
Chaska, MN 55318
1
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
owell Campbel
Maynard Happe
Tony J. DeSantis
15 Lakota Lane
495 Lakota Lane
612 Lakota Lane
Kaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
1
James Salerud
Todd Kurtz
John Heerdt
Vogelsberg Trail
5215 Polk Ave.
Rt. 1 Box 40
It 40
haska, MN 55318
Mayer, MN 55360
Mayer, MN 55360
k heryl
Marzalek
Diana Gilbertson
William Kullberg
10360 Heidi Lane
1190 Bluff Creek Drive
P.O. Box 34
C haska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Navarre, MN 55392
k rad Blomquist
Jeff & Brenda Meredith
Jussie Leliti
141 Derby Drive
1050 Butte Court
8200 West Lake Drive
f hanhassen, MN 55317
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Chanhassen, MN 55317
EAllen Koenig
LeRoy Biteler
William Roberts
12610 98th Street
910 Penamint Court
880 Lake Drive
Cologne, MN 55322
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Chanhassen, MN 55317
1
0
t
TIM & VICTORIA WISE '
425 Lakota Lane
Chanhassen, MN 55318 '
September 23, 1994 1
Park and Recreation Commission
690 Coulter Drive
'
Chanhassen, MN 55317
RE: Proposed Snowmobile Trail
1
To Whom It May Concern,
My family and I have resided in Chanhassen for the last twelve years and live on the
bluffs overlooking the light rail transit route. Last year we experienced snowmobiles
using the trail below to ride on. I am unaware if this use was authorized or not but it
'
has tainted my opinion with regards to opening up the trail up for general use.
My concern is as follows:
'
1. The high rate of speed on the trail we have seen is dangerous to other snowmobilers
and for walking on the trail. How can you possibly police this area properly?
'
people
2. The noise from the machines is compound because of the speed and because it echos
through the valley.
'
3. With the bike trail opening, it has made us more accessible and we have had
neighbors experiencing several instances of dumping on their property. Opening this to '
snowmobilers will only increase the problem.
I would hope this trail would be used for a bike trail and possibly cross country skiing ,
but not snowmobiles as proposed.
Sincerely, '
Tim & Vicki Wise
�l; :
Date: September 27, 1994
To: Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Director
From: Ed Mueller
1251 Hesse Farm Cir
Chaska, Mn 55318
Dear Mr. Hoffman;
I received notice that there is a meeting tonight regarding
the LRT route to be used by snowmobiles.
I am unable to attend, but would like to see the trail open
for snowmobiles. Ky mailing address is Chaska, but my
I
property is in Chanhassen, and borders Bluff Creek Drive.,
I have lived there for 15 years and enjoyed saowmobiliug in
the area whenever conditions permitted. I hope Chanhassen
will continue supporting. snowmobile trials as you have in
the past.
Thank you;
I
September 22, 1994 '
Todd Hoffinan '
Chanhassen Parks and Recreation Director
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317 '
Dear Mr. Hoffman:
I recently purchased a home on Vogelsberg Trail in Chanhassen, 1/2 block from the old railroad '
trail which is now in question of permitting snowmobile usage.
I would like you to be aware that I am strictly opposed to snowmobile usage on this trail. I have
hiked this trail before and having it so nearby was a very positive influence when purchasing my
home. '
I prefer winter hiking and have spent many years hiking the trails along the Minnesota River in
Chaska and in the Louisville Swamp in Shakopee where snowmobiling is permitted and I am well '
aware of the circumstances when combining hiking and snowmobiling.
I would like to comment on several issues indicated in the Chanhassen Villager article on '
August 25, 1994.
Regarding Mr. Biteler's comment that new snowmobiles are quieter than '
before, that may be true, but what percent of snowmobilers own new
snowmobiles? Probably very few. Most snowmobiles are very noisy '
machines.
2. Mr. Litfin indicates the Snowmobile Club wants to be "part of the community" but with '
the growth of Chanhassen and building of new homes, of course the
open land is diminishing, and how many communities want snowmobiling
through their community? How would the community of downtown '
Chanhassen like snowmobiling permitted through it?
3. Ms. Dockenforf s idea of a curfew and speed limit is a nice suggestion, but I
you would need 24 hour enforcement. How could that be provided?
4. The suggestion of "trying it on a trial basis" is compromising, but why start '
something you already know isn't going to work out and will have a hard
time correcting and changing in the future.
1
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0
u
CITY OF a
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE: September 20, 1994
SUBJ: Consider Request of Southwest Metro Trail Association to Utilize Southwest
Regional Light Rail Transit Route as a Snowmobile Trail
This item was heard by the city council on Atl usC22, 1994. The ensuing discussion and
testimony was quite lengthy, resulting in the i. chW 17 pages of verbatim minutes. The
attached staff report labeled item No. 7, whit detail; the Park and Recreation Commission's
actions in this regard, was presented to thegcity council prior to their meeting. A second
packet of information, which I believe altf you received, was disseminated by LeRoy
Biteler, a member of the Chanhassen Snowwmobile Clut The original report presented to the
commission and the resulting minutes A* also attached tqr your review. On the evening of
August 22, the city council tabled thdJequest of the Sou�awest Metro Trail Association
awaiting further resolution by the Prk and Recreation Commission. The city council also
�
requested that this issue be referr ed back to Hennepin Parksf appropriate. Hennepin Parks,
however, will only be operating trail activities (hiking and thing) during the spring, summer,
and fall seasons, essentially April 1 through November 15.e attached Hennepin Parks
Southwest Regional -LRT Tray Oo% am0Wadonal= -Pta .�d1kd August 1994 specifically
states: bd�.� �'
Requests for winteir trail activities must be submitted in writing, #o
Hennepin Parks by the city ,pr, the act�vsty pproval may be
granted through a special permit from Hennepin Parks. For example, the
City of Minnetonka has indicated it$ °'intent to continue snow removal to
allow for winter walking within its boundaries. If approved, proposed
winter activities, i.e. hiking, skiing, snowmobiling, must be supported by a
certificate of insurance including a "hold harmless" clause. Hennepin
Parks retains the authority to revoke a special permit at any time.
t
Park and Recreation Commission
September 20, 1994
Page 2 ,
Signage, maintenance and enforcement for approved winter activities will
be the responsibility of the sponsoring community. Signs for approved '
winter activities must be removed by April 1.
RECOMMENDATION
In light of the overwhelming amount of information which has been distributed on this issue
to date, I have purposely refrained from creating more. Testimony and discussion has already '
been heard by the commission and city council. The commission may elect to hear further
comment in this area; however, it may better serve the cause to restrict comments to the
commission on the 27th. Comments from those persons who have not yet had an opportunity '
to speak; however, should be welcomed. A motion acting on the Snowmobile Club's request,
either in the affirmative or negative, is being sought from the commission for passage onto
the city council.
PC: Karen Bowen, Hennepin Parks, 12615 County Road 9, Plymouth, MN 55441
Mike Liddicoat, Carver County Parks
Tom Redman, City of Chaska '
Bob Lambert, City of Eden Prairie
LeRoy Biteler, Southwest Metro Trail Association
I]
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
' CONSIDER REQUEST OF SOUTHWEST METRO TRAIL ASSOCIATION TO UTILIZE
SOUTHWEST REGIONAL LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT ROUTE AS A SNOWMOBILE TRAIL.
' Mayor Chmiel: In lieu of Todd not being here, are you going to do it.
Todd Gerhardt: Included in your packet was a memo from Todd Hoffman that was very detailed in the
background of staff and the Park Commission's review of this request. And you may also notice that the Park
Commission did not come to a formal recommendation to the City Council. That it was a 3 to 3 vote in
determining if this should be a snowmobile trail or not. With that, at this time I'd like to highlight the proposed
route and then invite Mr. Leroy Biteler to come up and make a formal presentation to the City Council and then
' open it up for public comment. On the overhead you'll notice that the existing route for the snowmobile club
are highlighted with the dark black lines and the proposed routes that the association is asking for are the dark
lines with the black dots. As they fall along alignments for around Lake Riley and then down to the railroad
' bed. That route is no longer an option as I am aware of this because Eden Prairie City Council has denied
access through their city. A second alternative to that route would be the route coming down through private
property, down to Pioneer Trail going east across TH 101 to the railroad bed area. This would be highlighted
with just black dots. There's also a third route which would be vacated and that is highlighted with a black line
with the slashes through them that goes on private property south of Lyman and then down County Road 17 to
Audubon. At this time I would invite Leroy to come up and make his presentation and then again open it up for
' some comments...
Leroy Biteler: Good evening. My name is Leroy Biteler, 910 Penamint Court, Chanhassen and I've also invited
Mike up here to help me a little bit with the presentation. I'll let him introduce himself.
' Mike Farkas: My name is Mike Farkas. I live at 7501 Chippewa Trail in Chanhassen. Leroy and I have been
working together on this project and we're going to just try explain a little bit more in detail about it.
' Leroy Biteler: Mike is the expert on the map so when it comes to map questions, I'll definitely be turning
things over to him. Did you receive and have an opportunity to read through the packet that I mailed to each of
you? Do you have that packet or do you need an additional, that information? I have extras.
' Mayor Chmiel: If you have extras, why don't you just pass those out.
' Leroy Biteler: Okay. While he's passing those out I'd just like to tell you how I'm going to present to you
tonight. Basically you know our objective is to be able to get to the southwest or the trail system in Chaska
from Chanhassen via the railroad bed. What I'd like to do is tell you what happened in Chaska with respect to
the railroad bed. What happened in Eden Prairie with respect to the railroad bed and our alternative routes. I'd
' like to review the objections from the people that live along this railroad bed and support some of their
objections with ... part of the information that I have collected with respect to sound and some other things. So
and then at the end I have about a 7 or 8 minute video that videos the railroad bed. I'd like you to look at that
with respect with snowmobiling in mind so you can see from a snowmobilers eyes or ... what it looks like along
the bluff area and how high the bluffs are and where the homeowners live and how close they might be in
relation to the creek. And that would basically be the end of my presentation. Some of the things will be
repetitive from what's in the letter but I think some of the people that are here need to be aware of some of the
information that I have gathered. Chaska Park and Recreation Board has elected to approve the use of the
railroad bed in Chaska. That will be going to the City Council on an upcoming date. I don't know the time.
Eden Prairie as of last Monday night had rejected our proposal to use the railroad bed which entails about .5 of a
12
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
mile in Eden Prairie for this year. They rejected that basically due to $30,000.00 worth of seed that they will be ,
putting down and $30,000.00 includes seed and labor that they'll be putting down in the park area out by Lake
Riley. And just with the thought of possibly somebody going across that and trespassing that area, they would ,
elect not to do anything this year with snowmobiles down in that general area. They did however say that they
would like to look at this again in '95. They would like to provide an area for the residents of Eden Prairie to
be able to access the trail system. That's what Eden Prairie would like. So with that in mind we hope to attend
their Council meetings coming up sometime in September. The date is unknown. See what we can do at that '
point again. So with that happening in Eden Prairie, that gave us the thought that we need to come up with what
we call a dry route. A dry route meaning you can get there whether it's a lake that's frozen or not, meaning
Lake Riley and since we couldn't cross Lake Riley this year because of the Eden Prairie denial, the dry route '
would be the route we would like to use this year and I'd like Mike just to kind of highlight on the map the
route that we are looking to use as the dry route.
Mike Farkas: The dry route, it continues down CR 117, which was our original trail and then it would cross '
private property here onto Pioneer Trail which will then take us east over to the border of Eden Prairie in
Chanhassen and we will drop down right basically in Chanhassen by a bridge that crosses over the old railroad
bed there. That's the location where we've chosen because everything else in these areas here of Bluff Creek is '
a little bit more unaccessible by snowmobile as far as the ditches go. And it's our most possible or safest route
as far as giving us the most room in the ditch to get us over to that railroad. We're working with the
landowners at this time to secure the permission to get across their property. We haven't had enough time ,
because of we thought that Eden Prairie would let us through across Riley. We had obtained permission to get
on Riley in Chanhassen over some private property but that didn't quite work for this year. Maybe next year.
One other thing I would like to mention. On this map there's a few extra trails that we've given up to secure
our trail in Chaska through to get our railroad bed approved down there. Last year we had lost our whole trail '
section here to Victoria which is 82nd Street. We still have our trail to this time onto Minnewashta over to
Victoria so basically what we're looking for is two trails out of town. One to the southern route to get us to the
river bottom, which is a state trail. One is to the west so it can get us out to the west trails and to the north up ,
to the Luce Line, which gets us out to Hutchinson, Watertown and those areas. This is, we're just basically
trying to funnel the people out of town and give them a way to access these trails. It's not like we have trails all
over any more. We basically just have two trails left at this time. However, we have one trail now. We're '
trying to get two because we had lost that one ... to the State trails in Chaska. We gave that trail up to the...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Leroy Biteler: ...to give them the education so that they can ride snowmobiles. There's a piece in there that
talks about the sound in decibels of snowmobiles. In 1975 snowmobiles were determined that they could not
exceed 78 decibels. What that means so that you have an understanding of sound in decibels a little bit. In this '
piece of information they talked about conversation at 3 feet is 70 decibels. They say an automobile at 50 feet
away, stepping on the gas is 84 decibels. A truck at highway speeds is 90 decibels. Inside an airplane is 100
decibels. Now how does that compare with snowmobiles? Snowmobiles were looked at from 1975 to 1989 in '
one area of this report. Snowmobiles traveling between 10 and 20 mph, the decibels ranged from 65 to 73.
Keep in mind, conversation is 70. Snowmobiles between 1975 and 1989 I reiterate were at the top, at full
throttle, 78 decibels. There may be a few that are louder. Some of the older models but basically we're talking
from 75 to 89 and that's probably most of the machines that are out there right now. If you want to back up to
1969 for instance, go back to an older model snowmobile. At full throttle the decibel of that machine was 92.
In 1970 they came down to 86. The Shorewood trail which runs from Lake Minnetonka out to Victoria. There
was some sound considerations, problems that were thought to be. The Southwest Trail took it upon themselves '
13 1
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City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
to do a very specific test with respect to sound in decibels of snowmobiles. What they did is they took 10
snowmobiles with very strict regulations, I might remind you, and those snowmobiles ranged from a 1972 all the
way to 1986. At 40 mph in 1981, a snowmobile with a 340 motor, average decibel was 74.9. In 1985 decibels
were 74. Another a 1984 Phaser, decibels were 75 at 40 mph. A 1980 J, decibels were 76.8 at 40 mph. Let's
look at an older model. 1973 PX440. It was 81. That is an older model. A 1972 Chaparral. Those decibels
was 87 at 40 mph. So you can see, if you look at something from 1980 on up, those decibels range at 40 mph,
from 74 to the low end, to 78.4 at the high end at 40 mph. Those decibels go down a little bit at 30 mph. They
also did a Shorewood, they went out in the street and set up the decibel reading machine. Automobile and truck
traffic in front of the NSP circle parking lot at 50 feet from the road averaged 71.4 decibels. Traffic noise at the
intersection of County Road 19 and Country Club Road, a half a block north of the Shorewood City offices, 75
decibels. A small chainsaw averaged 83 decibels at 50 feet. The last couple items on decibels. We took the
decibel meter inside a home off of the Shorewood trail. Inside the home there was 65 feet away the trail. The
sound decibels inside the home, the ambient sound within the south ranked from 32 to 58. Snowmobiles went
by that home at 30 mph, the average reading was 50.5 decibels. At 40 mph it was 66.1 decibels. You've got to
keep in mind that the ambient sound was anywhere from 32 to 58 inside the home with no snowmobiles going
by. The loudest it was when the sled went by was 66 decibels. I reiterate, sound of conversation 3 feet away is
somewhere around 70 decibels. I really think the issue of sound is behind us. I think that was in 1970. The
issue of ruining vegetation, should that come up. That was not a big issue that evening but the pressure that a
snowmobile puts on vegetation in relationship to the pressure that a person walking through the snow would put
on vegetation, in terns of pressure, the snowmobile is more gentle on vegetation than a person. In fact, it would
take 10 snowmobiles and their rider piled on top of each other to equal the pressure of one person. Again, that's
from the Minnesota Training Manual. I think the train that used to pass on this railroad bed is probably quite
louder than what we are going to create. Probably a lot more vibrations in the home as the train passes by also.
Another issue was walkers, skiers, hikers. Cross country skiers and snowmobilers don't mix. I can understand
your concern there. I suspect that we will have less traffic on that trail in the winter months than we will during
the summer months, like this past weekend. It was a beautiful weekend to be outside. That trail is 15 feet to 17
feet wide. I believe that is plenty of room for everybody to mix and have a multi purpose trail. The Shorewood
trail is a good example. The Shorewood trail between Shorewood and Victoria, I've passed many people on that
trail that are walkers more so than a cross country skier. They're allowed on that trail. The Luce Line trail.
The Luce Line trail goes through Watertown. Starts at Stubbs Bay. Actually you can get all the way out to
Hutchinson on that trail. They are allowed walkers, skiers, bikers, horseback riders, pretty much everything is
allowed on that trail system. There's a trail system down in southeastern Minnesota down by Lanesboro and I
forget the other name of the city. It's down by Lanesboro of which they have an 8 foot wide trail, paved which
allows snowmobiles, cross country skiers, bicyclists and hikers. I'd like to pass a photograph around. That
photograph is from the river trail down by Lanesboro. You'll notice that there are two signs there. One sign
says no motorized vehicles except snowmobilers. On the other side you will see that they have a bicyclist, a
hiker and a cross country skier. These kinds of things do exist in Minnesota. We are not asking for something
out of the ordinary. If I can go back to the Luce Line trail for a moment. We can pass through Watertown.
There's an article here that says, adjacent to the trail, the peak on the Luce Line trail. More and more peoplew
are constructing their $250,000.00 homes creating this section of rural America into one more suburb. My point
here is that the homes along the trail are not losing value because of this trail. They are probably adding some
value. There's some homes that are listed for sale along the Luce Line trail in the Watertown area. They use
the trail as an asset. It says very private beautiful vista of wildlife, wetland on the Luce Line. Wooded acre on
the Luce Line trail. The issue of the trail decreasing your property values, it's more of an asset than it is a
decrease. Another article from a Luce Line trail that goes through Watertown. This happens to be a newsletter
of the Luce Line Trails Association. A well groomed trail designed to handle the travels of all users. Walkers,
joggers, bicyclists, horseback riders and our winter sports. Snowmobiling and cross country skiing in harmony
14
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City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
15 1
can be achieved by enthusiasts who are willing to work. Our club has a membership at this time of
approximately 73 family members. We have a roster here which has been included in your packet. These
members work real hard to keep our club and to keep our club active in the community and also our trail system
tight knit as we possibly can. We encourage people to talk to people if they're doing something wrong on our
'
trail. We have a list of signatures on a petition. There must be 8 pages. In excess of 100 names. Not all club
members. A lot of them are not club members, that are in approval and would like us to see us have the
opportunity to ride this trail system. Some of these people live along the trail. They may be here this evening.
,
I'll just mention a couple names that I have talked to and that have signed our petition. Nick Evanoff, Keith
Carlson, Sue and Paul Allen, Ed Mueller, Mr. and Mrs. Sabinski, Russ Barto, Ron Mathias. Sorry if I mutilate
your name. Patty and Chris Weber. James Struble. David Metdke. These people live along the area and in the
'
area of this railroad bed. They are in approval of hoping to get a good access this trail out in their
neighborhood. I have a letter here from Brett Davidson, which is a previous land owner of which our trail
crosses 2 years ago. This letter, Mr. Chmiel, I don't believe got to you and the rest of you. If it did, it just
arrived very recently. I'm going to read a little bit of this letter because it is new to everybody on Council.
'
Brett Davidson. He lives at 7291 Galpin Blvd. I'm writing this letter to address the issue of the new proposed
snowmobile trail location. While I do not know all the particulars concerning this trail and as such cannot
address the specifics, I have had considerable dealings with the Snowmobile Club due to a snowmobile trail
'
being located on my property. I have never owned a snowmobile nor do I enjoy the sport so I believe my
opinion is unbiased. I have lived in Chanhassen for 8 years. For the fast 6 years the snowmobile trail was
located on my property. At fast I was reluctant to allow the trail to be on my property but after discussing with
members of the snowmobile club I decided to allow it for a year to see the outcome. I must admit I was quite
'
surprised. The club was very professional and they seriously addressed all issues that were ever brought up. In
addition, it was obvious that they continually worked throughout the year to insure the trail remained in the
proper location and that the signage did not fail into disrepair. It became obvious that the vast majority of
'
snowmobilers was very responsible and could enjoy this sport without serious disruption to the surrounding
homes. That's the letter which you did not receive in the packet. Carver Parks recommends us in their park and
we have been in the Minnewashta Regional Park for some time. They also sent you a letter and
,
recommendation allowing us to use their trail. Basically supporting our club. The DNR is also supporting this
type of trail. The DNR works on these kinds of trails throughout the State of Minnesota They have also sent
you a letter recommending the use of abandoned railroad grades as an ideal setting for this type of use as it is
already set up to function as a transportation system. In Chanhassen we have 462 registered sleds in the zip
'
code area 55317. Information provided to us by the DNR. We are basically providing a service to all those
people who have registered machines in our community. We provide that service. We do all the work. We
mark the trails. We do the best that we can. We'd like to continue to provide that service. Some of them are
'
members of our club who... Snowmobiling can be an exciting, fun family sport. Our family has snowmobiled
for 17 years. I've snowmobiled since I was my son's age. My children are here this evening, Jeff and Miranda.
We would like to keep this opportunity as a family sport to be able to do it in Chanhassen as long as possible.
'
Two weeks ago my daughter asked me, while I was doing all this work on the snowmobile issues. She says,
dad. Will I be able to snowmobile when I become of age to ride? Miranda, I hope so. I'm working hard at
trying to keep that opportunity for my kids and there's many other kids out there. We just want to maintain that
same opportunity. We will bring law enforcement out to this trail system. Believe it or not. Maybe you'll see
'
more law enforcement out on this trail system than people along that railroad bed have ever seen. I see Al
Wallin here tonight. I kind of wish he was still here. I was talking with him 2 years ago when we made
arrangements with Carver County to bring their sleds out on our trail system to patrol. Unfortunately at that
'
time we had a couple old Arctic Cats that could barely make it from one end of the trail to the other. As a
matter of fact one of them did fail. Now they have two new machines. We will encourage them to get out
more. The DNR will be out to help us. We will patrol it ourselves the best that we can. As we have in the
.
15 1
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
' past. The last thing I have is I'd just like to reiterate snowmobiling is not along season. We may feel in
Minnesota we have a snowmobile season that lasts for 6 months because it's cold for half a year. That's not
right. We're lucky if we have snow by Christmas so if we consider that we have December, January, and
' February as snowmobiling months, that's probably 90 days. Out of those 90 days, and I'm going to be
conservative, let's say we have 60 days that we can ride snowmobiles. Probably about all. If that. My point is
we're asking for a very small percentage of time to use that trail. If there's not snow on that trail, they aren't
' going to be using it. It takes snow to make these machines run properly. Otherwise you'll bum up things
underneath the track. So in our area snowmobile times are numbered. Snowmobile days are numbered. So
that's basically what I have to wrap up my presentation from the podium. Other than answering questions and I
truly would like you to see this 7 or 8 minute film with the snowmobiles on their mind as opposed to possibly
some other things when you may have been up and down the trail.
Mike Farkas: I would like to mention one thing before he starts. I don't know if any of the council members
' have been on this trail. Have they been down it? Everyone's been down it then? I just hope that we look at
this as looking at these houses, there's maybe 1 or 2 that are fairly close, and they are quite a ways away.
(Leroy Biteler and Mike Farkas showed a videotape of the trail corridor at this point in the meeting.)
Mayor Chmiel: What I'd like to do before we go to questions, is to see if there are some people here who are
either in opposition or for this particular project. I know that many of you may have had discussions at the Park
' and Rec Commission and those particular Minutes that we do have in our packets show those concerns. So if
there's something new that you'd like to bring out this evening, I would entertain those positions at this time.
I'd like you to just please state your name and your address and your basic concern. If you could limit it to
roughly about 3 minutes, we'd appreciate it. Is there anyone wishing to address Council at this time? Maybe
you could just sit down and we can get back to you.
' Leroy Biteler: I certainly will Mr. Chmiel. We had one other person here. The President of our club who had
just a couple comments. It would be very short. Almost basically what you're asking for now that he'd like to
comment on.
' Mayor Chmiel: Sure.
Charles Littfin: Mr. Mayor. Council members. My name is Charles Littfm. I am the President of the
' Snowmobile Club... particular or continue all this as a club, it helps to have trails to keep the club going. And
therefore I'd like to say that we want to be part of the community and to do that we need to have trails. I guess
basically it gets right down to it. Snowmobilers need trails. We will keep the trail going whether there are trails
' or no trails and we will also continue to work with the city on the trails and other activities throughout the year
like Septemberfest and all the other activities that the city has come up with. Thank you for letting me speak.
Mayor Chmiel: Good, thank you. Okay, I would entertain anyone who would like to come forward and express
' your concerns.
Curt Bardal: My name is Curt Bardal and I live at 10301 Heidi Lane in Chanhassen. My mailing address is
' Chaska and Mr. Mayor, Council members, citizens. I'd appreciate a moment. I'd like to first address the
Metro Snowmobile Association. Southwest Metro. I do appreciate your concerns. I am opposed to them. I
appreciate your concerns and I'm sensitive to your issue because you bring maturity, conscientiousness and a
safety factor to the sport that I only wish all participants brought to that sport. I do appreciate your attitudes and
16
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
He is
'
what you bring to it and your conscientiousness. You mentioned a letter from Mr. Webber. a neighbor of
mine. He has snowmobiles. He has motorcycles. Rides them through the neighborhood. Maintains the
decibels. Good neighbor. Good person. Quality citizen and he participates in these activities. Also had some
other neighbors. Young fellow, dirt bike. I bet they didn't know what decibels was. Probably couldn't hear.
'
Enjoyed the area because of the serenity we spoke of earlier—should bring the bike off the top of the hill.
Roaring it down the street. I wish the police enforcement could still be here now because I would like to thank
them. They're always very responsive. However, enforcement is difficult when somebody is shooting off over
,
the hill with loud decibels. And I want to emphasize, I sympathize with you. You run a quality organization.
You obey the laws but when you open a trail like this, you open it also to those who do not necessarily abide by
those laws. You open the trails and there's a need for regulation and enforcement. Enforcement is a difficult
thing in this particular area because of the terrain. Where Hesse Farm adjoins the old railroad crossing and the
'
old railroad trestle, enforcement would be extremely difficult. We have in the past had a sportsmen experience
with hunters in the area. From the railroad trestle and south was an area deemed there could be hunting. From
the railroad track and north was non - hunting because it was residential. On occasion a hunter will cross that
'
railroad track and again I emphasize the vast majority, as in any other activity, the vast majority of hunters are
conscientious and law abiding. Wonderful individuals. Great to have a cup of coffee with and visit. See how
hunting went and any of the individuals who starts wandering up into the residential area. A few of the
'
neighbors have called. The police have responded and appropriately enough state that the police officers refuse
to pursue the hunter in the residential area appropriately because he was dressed in brown. There's a deer hunter
also with a gun. It'd be rather foolish to pursue this person. Now what are his reasons for going into that area,
whether it was after a wounded animal. A downed animal somewhere, we do not know. Never did find out
,
who the individual was. It is not an enforceable situation. This relates to snowmobiles. How do you enforce
when you have someone getting off the trail onto private property? It may not be enforceable. The terrain is
have
such to pursue this individual, to identify them, to correct the situation is just prohibitive in that area. So I
,
a serious question number one about the regulation and how it can be enforced. I just don't see how our fine
police force could do this. A second issue is a safety issue. The area and the slopes and the bluffs below Hesse
Farm is an area that our children find an adventuresome area. Wildlife, trees, places to camp in summer. Places
,
to slide in the winter. They have on occasion walked along the railroad track since the train has been pulled out.
They enjoy the area but I envision twilight hours, I envision when they're down there in the evening, when
they're ... evening to do some sliding. Walking along the railroad trail and here comes a snowmobiler. And in
bad visibility, we have an accident in an area that is not accessible. So safety is a great concern to me in this
'
area. And excuse me if I'm being redundant on issues that have already been presented but I'm new to this so
these are my feelings I'm presenting. Thirdly, environmental concern. I'm not sure how many of us are ... found
this out myself. In that particular area below Hesse Farm is one of the last remaining trout streams in this area.
'
However minuscule a resource it is, it is a significant natural resource in the fact that at one time there were
several trout streams in the entire metro area. I believe the last count there were 7 viable trout streams left. One
of the 7 is Assumption Creek. I would like to invite further information because I recently found this out
myself. But if this be true that we have this resource here in Chanhassen, I feel it should be examined. It
'
should be protected. Something that should be cherished There is some concern for that area now because
development in Chaska that is off the watershed from ... and it has brought some runoff to that stream. But the
stream is mostly spring fed from below Hesse Farm. This environmental factor for me goes back to the hunting
'
issue. If hunting is continued to be allowed below the railroad tracks, the hunter wants to have the animal in the
field is ... by law at this point is allowed to pursue that wildlife, to retrieve it with snowmobiles. This in fact
would leave snowmobile tracks off the snowmobile trail. Once this has been occurred, say in the November deer
'
season, the tendency would be to follow this tail. If this gets into, and I know there's a lot of if's here. Into the
area of this stream, Assumption Creek, is there environmental concern? Is this a question that has been raised at
all? I don't have answers. At this point myself I only have questions. Also environmental concerns in pursuit
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City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
of wildlife. I do have concerns with snowmobilers that are as conscientious as the snowmobilers who are here
tonight that will pursue the fox and deer, the occasional coyote and other rabbits and wildlife we have in the
area. As a resident in the area, I don't want to exclude people from coming and enjoying the neighborhood. I
think for hikers, for bikers, for cross country skiers, that it would be less impact on the animals and wildlife
around. It's a cherished area and I would not presume to be so selfish as to excuse people from viewing the
natural beauty there. And finally I would ask the Council, whatever decision you arrive at, please do not arrive
at it in haste. Do take a long time to consider this. Is an environmental impact study necessary? I don't know.
But is it a concern because if we decide something in haste, find out years later we lost a valuable resource that
could not be restored, it would be quite regrettable. So finally I'm asking please, please take a long time.
Consider the many, many things that not only I have mentioned but the snowmobile club, there are many issues.
So again thank you for your time.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Nancy Mancino: Mayor, Councilmen, Councilwoman. My name is Nancy Mancino, 6620 Galpin Blvd. I do
not live in this area nor am I for or against snowmobiles but I would like to say I live on Galpin Boulevard and
I think about 3 years ago, or 4 when Jerome Carlson built there and ... property, it was one of the trail systems
that went from Galpin to Highway 41 and they would cut across there. I live just north of that area and we're
probably as the crow flies, about a half mile north. Quarter mile north of there—that most of the time, I would
say 75% of the time it was just fine having snowmobilers. However, there were many, many occasions at 2:00
and 3:00 in the morning that we would hear the snowmobilers going through that trail. And there was nothing
you can do. You can't go out and stop them ... by that time they were gone. So what I have, that's very hard,
was the enforcement of the hours and it was again, just to wake us up. Even though you couldn't actually see
our house ... as I said, we were about...half a mile away so the sound just reverberated all over. So I am...
decibels but I can tell you what it was like in the distance of the, or around the trail. Secondly, I just have a
public safety issue and that is, there is no, as far as I know... training snowmobilers, which I really think is too
bad because one of the things that we find, we have a road that goes into Galpin Blvd. and snowmobilers use the
west side of Galpin Blvd. to travel. And many times we have come down the end of our driveway and there are
young men, I think they are young men. Teenage ... snowmobilers and they just, they don't even look where our
driveway comes into Galpin and there have been a couple times when we almost hit a snowmobiler so I do have
some concerns if this trail were to traverse a highway and how it was built. I would hope that the State does do
some sort of licensing and training of snowmobilers at an early age. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Anyone else?
Joe Kandiko: My name is Joe Kandiko. I live at 10421 Bluff Circle in the City of Chanhassen. A couple
issues brought up by the snowmobilers that I would like to take issue with. The idea of mutual use on the
snowmobile trail of hikers, skiers and snowmobiles I have found not to be true. Walking the trail between
Chaska and Shakopee where it's a maintained trail and many of the trails that are down in the Louisville swamp
area, you hear a snowmobile coming. You're on skis. You have kids with you and you immediately head to the
side and the snowmobiles are not the ones that give way when they're coming down 25 -30 mph or more. I
don't find it mutually accessible use of trails and I don't think it's in the interest of safety. Many times we,
when hearing that whine, would have to scurry our kids off to the side of the trail for safety sake and I never
saw a snowmobile slow down on an open straight away for a pedestrian. The noise level that was mentioned,
I'm a physician. I know about decibels and he's off by a power of 10. It's 7 decibels at 3 foot conversation
range, not 70. Higher than 115 decibels was the inside the Metrodome at the World Series. 70 is not 2/3 of
what a conversation range is at 3 feet. Comparing things of ambient noise level in a house assumes that
18
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City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
Resident: Don, can I have a right to rebuttal on the environment?
19 1
'
everybody's up, TV's are going, conversation is going. When you're asleep, any noise is enough to wake you
up and I think that to say that it's 75 or 82 or 72 decibels, if it's quiet at night and you get awaken, that's a
night's sleep lost. And I think this has to be considered that the hours don't stop when you are in bed or your
kids are in bed. Many times, and right now that snowmobile is not, that snowmobile trail is supposedly non-
'
motorized vehicles. 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. from my house, which is just up the bluff, not being able to be seen on
that video. However, the video is taken right now. You take that video in January and you'll see 20 more
homes from the distance that he's talking about. So just because he can't see them through fully leafed trees
'
doesn't mean that there's a lot more accessible trails there. And if he ... night's sleep with the whine of those
engines at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning, is not at all pleasant. I would encourage you to think that this is now
a residential area. Chanhassen cannot go backwards. There are places for these snowmobiles that are on a right
'
trail and established residential development I think is not considering the day life and night life of the residents
of those places. Policing is indeed impossible. Once those people are on that trail, there's only one way out and
there's only two access points. Bluff Creek Drive and TH 101 and if you can't get on at either of those places,
you're stuck. And the same things have happened as Bardal referred to with hunters. Once they're in there,
'
you're not going to find them and that's been a problem with enforcing any of these rules. A snowmobile goes
by, you call 911. They're never going to find them and that's been an issue that we found not only with hunters
but also certainly with the snowmobilers. So I encourage you to take into consideration the people who border
'
on these properties. We didn't buy it to live on a snowmobile trail. What he's referring to as far as homes
being enhanced by the Luce Line trail, I'm sure if you said you can listen to snowmobiles at 2:00 and 3:00 in
the morning if you buy this house, you'd end up with a few less... So I think you have to consider that a lot of
,
what they say, we're not trying to put snowmobiles out of business but I think there's appropriate trails already
set up for that. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thanks.
'
Boyd Peterson: My name is Boyd Peterson, 9860 Pioneer Circle and it's kind of wild to sit here and listen to
this by the residents of Chanhassen. You've obviously got some people that don't like snowmobiling. They're
'
trying to cop out some ways to say hey, we don't like them and this and that noise issue. Go away. They're
loud. Everybody forgets about the airplane. I live close to Flying Cloud. They go over all the time. They're
loud. Can you do anything? No. Riley Lake, same deal. You sit and listen to the motorboats going around
and around and around ... there is all this crazy noise. Okay, everybody's doing their thing. I have no problem
'
with a trail in front of my house to get to the main Hennepin County corridor. That's a light rail corridor at the
time. That's what it is and we all should be able to use it. Eventually it's going to be a train coming out that
and then nobody's going to use it. There's been an old railroad train going up and down that since 1920. It's in
,
my Abstract. It says it in there. Railroad trains are ... dirty things. You know what's this environmental impact
stuff when this old greasy train's been going over all them years and there's still trout down there. As far as
able to get off of that when you're on it with a snowmobile is almost impossible. It's either straight up or
'
straight down. Or it's got fences. Once you get on at the access point the snowmobile club is asking for, it's a
straight shot to Chaska. So my view is let's keep it in Chanhassen and sure there's bad apples that are going to
ruin every group but you know, do you make the laws for them or for the people that put a lot of work... I've
heard some people ... watch a good chunk of that property in front that's going to be used for snowmobile trails
t
and a lot ... if I remember, everybody has a right to that trail. You're always going to have your bad apples here
that ruin it. You're always going to have people that don't like what somebody else does. And we're 1995.
Snowmobiles are ever quieter today than they were 6 years ago. Thanks.
'
Resident: Don, can I have a right to rebuttal on the environment?
19 1
' City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
' Mayor Chmiel: I'd rather not go into that right now. I'd like to get the rest of the people who have some
concerns.
' David Gatto: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. My name is David Gatto. I live at 9631 Foxford
Road. I have a question. You indicated that the trail, because you can't use Eden Prairie's is going to come
across Pioneer Trail. Can someone tell me more about that? Where's it going to come from on Pioneer Trail?
t Mike Farkas: You know where CR 117 that goes by Lake Susan.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf. 17.
Mike Farkas: Or 17, excuse me. Okay, out of Chanhassen there. Okay, that's the original route and then what
we're doing is proposing the trail to go through private property down to Pioneer Trail.
' David Gatto: Where is that point on Pioneer Trail?
Mike Farkas: Okay. Approximately I'd say about a half a mile west of Halla Nursery.
David Gatto: Okay. And then continuing.
' Mike Farkas: 3/4 of a mile.
David Gatto: Continuing east?
' Mike Farkas: It will continue east on the south side, all the way to where the bridge is that goes over the
railroad. The old abandoned railroad and will drop down on the Chanhassen side of the border there and then
' we proceed south towards Chaska.
David Gatto: Okay, thank you. I'm actually here for another issue tonight but I'm glad I'm here. Whether
because we've got some comments regarding the Halla issue but as I listen to this, these people want to come
' across right in front of my house and I happen to own 400 feet on Pioneer Trail and I must say that I wouldn't
be in favor of this at all. I've had snowmobilers come across on Pioneer Trail there and I'm sure it's not any of
these people because they sound responsible but the problem again is the people that aren't and the problem is
what they'll do is about 2 or 3 years ago I planted several small seedling trees and now they're spruce trees and
they're about this big. And what I think might happen and what I've seen happen is the folks who come across
Pioneer Trail and they see the nice fresh snow down on my property and they run right through the ditch and
' they've been on as far as 30 feet inside of my property with their snowmobiles and I'm afraid they're going to
run over the trees and cause other damage and I wouldn't be in favor of that at all. This is the first time I've
heard about this. I'm extremely surprised. They say that they're working with the homeowners but as a ,
homeowner and I own 400 foot along Pioneer Trail, I wouldn't be in favor of it at all. Thank you very much.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Anyone else?
' David Huffman: Hello. My name is David Huffman. I'm a commissioner on one of the commissions, the Park
and Rec department. I was at the meeting last time. I guess I'm the sacrificial lamb this evening. I ask the
Council if you have any questions, I am nervous speaking in front of large groups so forgive my ... as we go
through this. We had several different issues that we talked about that evening. They've been covered by a lot
20
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
Mayor Chmiel: I guess not. Not at this time. You only had 6 commissioners out of. '
.David Huffman: There were 6 commissioners and we had a 3 to 3 tie both ways.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Anyone else? '
Paul Graffunder. My name is Paul Graffunder. I live at 10001 Great Plains Boulevard and this thing is kind of
a bonus issue for me. I'm not here for this either but we happen to have a 55318 zip code where I live and... '
My boys and I do snowmobile quite a bit and about all we get to do is go around our house. There's just
nowhere for us to go that I feel it's safe. I would love to have this. We've lived there for quite a while and I
used to hear the train and that was okay. The noise wasn't bad. But we would really love to have this. '
Mayor Chmiel: Good, thank you. Yes. '
(There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.) '
Willard Halver: ...My house is shown there. I'm 250 feet from the old railroad bed. And I've lived there 37
years and it seems as though my yard, my house is a challenge for target for rock throwing off the railroad bed. '
The 10th of June this year I picked up 47 rocks. I put a call in to Scott Harr. They said Scott Harr was on...
put down the information and said there wan't anyone available here at Chanhassen. Said I'd have to call the
Sheriff's Department. So I called the Sheriffs Department and the Sheriff's Department gave me the
21 1
1
of different people very eloquently. There were two major issues that they were talking to the Council before
and after that were of great concern to us. One was the lack of information given to the homeowner community.
We did not want to see that we were railroading .people into a quick and early decision. There seemed to be a
group of individuals on Heidi Lane who had not been contacted. Inadvertently or advertently. We did not go
'
out of our way to exclude anybody. We had a good discussion from a lot of different individuals. The major
concern that did come up was dual use in this trail. It cannot co- exist. I mean that's what we came up with and
that's what we thought about. It was our understanding that Hennepin County at some point along that corridor
'
was going to have cross country skiing. We talked about that a little bit. You already read the notes or most of
the concerns with the cross country skiing issue and the existence of the snowmobiles caused a great deal of
concern. For myself in particular and some of the other members. We had a 3 -3 vote. The fast time allowing
'
the snowmobiling to continue along that corridor. It was a tie. We had 6 members. It was another, the second
vote was to disallow snowmobiling along there. That was also a 3 -3 tie. We need to know as a commission
and we sent it on, what was going to be the use of that trail and that was our concern. If cross country skiing is
to be allowed, it is going to be groomed, there's going to be a problem from our perspective of the dual
'
going
use. The other reality is, this is a light corridor system that allows people to get from one spot to another very
quickly. There will be no bonfires. There will be no camping. They move from Point A to Point B. They
move down into Chaska. Down to the Minnesota Valley State area. They move quickly into an area that allows
,
snowmobiling because Eden Prairie does not allowing snowmobiling does not mean that this ... body does not
have a few more brains than Eden Prairie. I think this is a very volatile issue on a lot of sides but we sent it up
here. It is our recommendation, after talking to several people on our side on our issue, is that we need some
direction. Some help in terms of the use of the trail. If the trail's going to be cross country oriented, then it's
'
not going to do us any good to have snowmobiles there. If it's not going to be groomed, taken care of and the
fees collected, the same problem with cross country skiers in terms of use, then from our perspective there's no
problem for using the trail for snowmobiling. Did I get it right or not? Close? Questions, comments, concerns.
'
Mayor Chmiel: I guess not. Not at this time. You only had 6 commissioners out of. '
.David Huffman: There were 6 commissioners and we had a 3 to 3 tie both ways.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Anyone else? '
Paul Graffunder. My name is Paul Graffunder. I live at 10001 Great Plains Boulevard and this thing is kind of
a bonus issue for me. I'm not here for this either but we happen to have a 55318 zip code where I live and... '
My boys and I do snowmobile quite a bit and about all we get to do is go around our house. There's just
nowhere for us to go that I feel it's safe. I would love to have this. We've lived there for quite a while and I
used to hear the train and that was okay. The noise wasn't bad. But we would really love to have this. '
Mayor Chmiel: Good, thank you. Yes. '
(There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.) '
Willard Halver: ...My house is shown there. I'm 250 feet from the old railroad bed. And I've lived there 37
years and it seems as though my yard, my house is a challenge for target for rock throwing off the railroad bed. '
The 10th of June this year I picked up 47 rocks. I put a call in to Scott Harr. They said Scott Harr was on...
put down the information and said there wan't anyone available here at Chanhassen. Said I'd have to call the
Sheriff's Department. So I called the Sheriffs Department and the Sheriff's Department gave me the
21 1
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
' information that they were on an emergency and I'd have to wait a while. Well by that time the individuals that
had been throwing these rocks, I saw him. I know who he is. I know him right today. He was gone. If you
don't catch the man ... half an hour to follow him before I get an officer down there. No. No way. I called
'
the ...call the Sheriffs department. 9 weeks later, last Friday evening. Now this first incident happened on a
Friday afternoon about 1:30 -2:00. Last Friday evening I'm in my double garage working on my lawn tractor and
my wife's in the basement and we hear some strange noises. And here are rocks are coming again. So I put a
call in, my wife put a call in to 911. This was an after 5:30 in the afternoon. It was half an hour. The
' individual was gone. Now I got the license number and I'm waiting for the deputy sheriff that finally came
there in 15 or 20 minutes. He took my story for further action. But it seems to be a target. I am definitely,
until we get some enforcement, which I haven't seen in 37 years. We're down in that southeast corner there.
You might as well say we're down in you know what USA. We don't know what law enforcement is down
there. It's that hard to get. And I don't know why. We pay our taxes and everything. So ... until we get
enforcement, I'm not against snowmobiling at all. But when these individuals are under the influence of drugs
' and alcohol and throwing these rocks, I've got a big chip on the siding on this episode that happened this last
Friday night. And Don Fox, the Deputy Sheriff is the one who investigated the case, and this is just starting to
move now. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Anyone else?
Jim Sulerud: I'm Jim Sulerud at 730 Vogelsburg Trail. I'm here for another issue too, like several of my
neighbors and I guess several of these are focusing down in that area. Couple of things. One is that when I want
to go canoeing I put my canoe on the car and drive across town or somewhere else to go canoeing. If I want to
go cross country skiing, I put my skis on the car and go somewhere else to cross country ski. I can walk and
jog out my door but I can't even bike out my door. I haven't been able to in the past so I've got to put the
' bikes on the car and go somewhere else. There was a horse in that south end of town, you'd have to load up the
horse and go somewhere else in most cases. I'm suggesting that for snowmobilers it's maybe the same thing.
You put your snowmobile on a trailer and go down to the river bottoms or you go out to existing trails. It's not
incumbent upon the city to provide out the door access. Another aspect is that I think maybe my family is the
present user of the trail, even though it's not open right now. We live about a couple hundred yards up the road
and we're on that trail literally daily. Often times twice a day. All I can say is that when I say we, I mean my
1 wife jogs. I don't get out there as often as she does but she jogs year round. What we, our kids use it for
biking and running. The primary use we've seen of the trail so far, unopened as it is, is people walking and
there's quite a few. I don't know where they all come from but there's a lot of people who walk on the trail.
The second biggest use, I want to say numbers of people are bikers and then it's joggers and after that it's dirt
bikes and then cars. Some of that has cut down in the last ... I would suggest that it's probably going to continue
to be heaviest used by walkers in the wintertime. Cross country skiing is a slight possibility but I cross country
ski but that area of the track, the railroad bed there is bare most of the winter. The sun hits all that exposed area
and it's bare for most of the time unless it's real heavy snow because it's very exposed to the sun on that south
elevation. So I would say half a mile to a mile is, snowmobilers come through there. I'm surprised that some
do. I'm sure it ruins their equipment but they've come through there in the past. But I would say that it's not
' going to be a conflict between cross country skiers and snowmobilers but it will be the walkers and my wife will
continue to jog. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Anyone else?
' Bill Kullberg: Mr. Mayor, City Council. My name is Bill Kullberg. I am the past President of the State
Snowmobile Association and the current trail administrator for the Southwest Trail Association. But I'm here
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City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
tonight also as a Park Commissioner for the city of Minnetrista and as a helpful hint for you to direct your Park
Commission, we have been involved with trails and trails in our community were nowhere as developed as what
Chanhassen has but we have been working with the trails and waterway unit with the Department of Natural '
Resources and I believe the contact person there would be Mr. Dan Cowens. He's gone to a number of seminars
that address the multiple use concept. The user complex. I sat through the Park Commission meeting here a
number of weeks ago and there was one young lady who was really advocating cross country skiing. But as we
groom these trails in Carver Park, there's even a conflict between the style of cross country skiing. There's in '
line skiing and they want little tracks and then there's the scissor type for ski skating type of situation so there's
conflicts there. Developing conflicts between walkers and bikers that I had not heard about until I got involved
with trails. This kind of information I think would be very helpful to your Park and Rec Commission. I cut out '
a little article just recently that dealt with Carver Park and other, Lake Independence and so forth. They're
having problems with bicycles going off of their trails and they had Rangers out there doing patrol and it's the
mountain bikes that like to get off into the more rugged terrain and I can see where they're going to go down '
this railway and want to get up and down by the bluffs and so forth so there are environmental issues. It
wouldn't just be snowmobiling that your Park Commission's going to be dealing with. May be well advised to
get this kind of education because you're going to have more conflicts or at least use of this trail but you also
have part of the trails that goes between Shorewood and Victoria with a small section that we have used for a 1
number of years for snowmobiling. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Anyone else?
'
Leroy Biteler: Just a couple of comments on some of the things that were brought up. With respect to ... along
that trail. We can post that trail and put curfews on that trail to whatever we determine is an appropriate curfew
for that area. There are curfews in other areas such as the Shorewood area. I believe it's 10:00 or 11:00 and we
'
do patrol that area at night with the groomer and with automobile telephones and we do some ticketing with
respect to people that are not meeting the curfew. So if we can help you with the curfew issue. Mr. Kandiko
you mentioned some information with regards to sound decibels. I may be off a little bit but I'm not from 70,
'
which I mentioned conversation is 70 and you mentioned that it should be number 7. I'm very close in my
decibels ratings with respect to conversation. I work with ... wall partitions which deals with sounds transferring
from one side of the partition to the other and they just get some common loudness levels. Just speaking of
regular, average street noise is 70 in their case. Conversations at 3 feet away is 60. Just like to correct that I
'
may be off a little bit but I'm not off from 70 to single digit 7. I think you indicated people breaking the law.
It is difficult to catch people breaking the law on snowmobiles. That is why we have in the past actually
brought sleds out to the trails with deputies on it so that we can help maintain law and we generally have people
'
from our club assisting these deputies and we have ticketed people. I'd like to see that, those tickets be heavily
enforced and see the dollar volume go up for the people that are breaking the law. David Catcherall, I'm not
sure I pronounced your name but if the trail does go down Pioneer Trail, in fact it will be a marked trail. It will
'
be an enforced trail. We'll be able to take care of the areas such as one of our landowners sent us a letter of
recommendation that he was surprised at how well we were able to maintain... We have an area that there's a
problem, you need to contact us and we need to deal with that problem. There's a variety of ways and I truly
believe that we can that some of the people have recommended our services to Council. Which land we crossed
'
in the past. I think that's basically all I need to address. I think you have enough information from the packet
that I sent you previously.
'
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
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City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
Leroy Biteler: We would like to see you help us make this decision, pro or con. We've been doing this since
March 22nd which was the last snow season. Coming upon the next one. I can't believe it's taken this long. I
guess that's the way politics works. It's my first experience with this. Thank you very much. Appreciate your
time.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I guess I've heard some of the pros and cons to the issue and there are several things
that I had written down with some of the concerns I had. Number one was curfew. The hours of operation.
' What were the city's liabilities, even though the club has an insurance portion on it. But even if they have that,
the city automatically gets brought into any suits that may come up from something as such. Barricades. Some
sharp turns within that particular area and I understand that you're looking at some types of barricades but I'm
not sure what those barricades might be. I wanted more information regarding distances from homes and I
' would also like to get the Minutes from the Eden Prairie Park Commission and if and what discussions were
done by the City Council as well. I would like to send this back to the Park and Recreation Commission,
number one and the reason for that is that there were 6 commissioners there. The total commission was not
there. There's 7 members and that one additional member may have tendencies to either break that tie from one
to the other but I would like to get a recommendation back from the commission. And I guess that's where I'm
coming from with this. Richard.
Councilman Wing: I'm in my can't put my thoughts together mode. I want to pass for now.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf. Well I've got notes all over the place so my thoughts may not be together. A little
bit scattered but they'll be out there. I came in, let me preface it by saying that I don't snowmobile. However I
' see, and I don't recall who but someone made the reference to hunting and these are two, what I call, so called
sports. Snowmobiling and hunting which are rapidly disappearing in the metro county area and we see the areas
to hunt diminishing every year and eventually snowmobiling will not be allowed in our community. Just the
' population growth won't allow it. However there's along history in our community of allowing both of these
things and as we continue to grow I guess I'm not ready yet to let go of that opportunity for our citizens. I
think if we're going to allow it in the city, and as I said, I'm not ready to let it go, I think this is the ideal
location. It keeps them out of the ditches. It provides a safe place. However, as Dave brought up, it's not
' compatible with any other use during the winter months and I strongly believe that and I guess I have a question
and since Todd Hoffman isn't here, I'll direct it to you Todd. Who decides what the winter use is? Can we,
can the city decide that no cross country skiing will be allowed there? Or is that up to Hennepin Parks?
' Todd Gerhardt: Hennepin Parks has put it back onto the local jurisdictions to determine what the uses will be.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Any use? Okay. And another way to enforce that is with signs in terms of saying
this is a snowmobile trail and any other uses or at your own risk. I guess what I propose to my fellow Council
members is that we do a trial run for the '94 -95 season. I would like to put some restrictions on the time. 1
don't see anything later than 10:00 p.m. all week long. Let's see, what else did I write down. I had a question
' as to someone brought up that once you're on the trail it would be hard to get off. I'd like some verification of
that. If this does go back to Park and Rec, I'd like that addressed. I guess that summarizes. And I would also
propose that we have a speed limit and I think what the Association is asking for is 40 and since the decibels do
' go up with each increasing mile per hour, I'd like some limitation on that. I don't have a suggested number. I
also have a question as to what the fine is for after hours use. Can anybody answer that right now? I mean is it
substantial to deter.
24
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City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Michael.
Councilman Mason: Well, while you're searching for it. Note, we're all jotting notes tonight. East meets west.
Progress. Should we have snowmobiles or not. I live in Carver Beach, Woodhill Drive. I don't have a
snowmobile. I don't snowmobile but a lot of people in Carver Beach snowmobile and they come up and down '
Woodhill Drive and no, I don't particularly like it but that's the way it is. You know, my lake place. Well, my
father's lake place. Before there was a grant and aid trail, about a half mile away from the cabin, snowmobilers
went all over the place up there and I didn't like it. With that trail, snowmobilers use that trail a lot and there
25 1
Leroy Biteler: We would like to see it be whatever the city makes it.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Do you know what it is currently?
Leroy Biteler. I don't know myself unless Bill Kullberg knows what you do in Shorewood.
Bill Kullberg: It'd be a misdemeanor so they have various gradations. Some cities you're allowed to go straight
'
home if you live in that city. In the city of Shorewood we have worked currently as they have passed their
ordinance so no matter who you are, if you're on that trail, the rail grade after 11:00 you're going to get a ticket
whether you live next door to the Mayor. So I mean that gave law enforcement more of a tool.
'
Councilwoman Dockendorf. Like that would make a difference.
Mayor Chmiel: We don't do that. Let me just ask Scott. He would have probably a pretty good inkle as to.
Scott Harr: Well any violation of city code is a criminal misdemeanor chargeable by citation and formal
in the
complaint with jail time and a substantial fine possible. The snowmobile regulations conjunction with
noise ordinance are so specific that to provide a more specific report I'd have to ask for some additional time,
which I would be happy to do or maybe this is a project that the Park and Rec Commission wants to work on
with the Public Safety Commission as well. But the short answer is any specific violation of the city ordinance
'
is a criminal misdemeanor.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay, thanks. I guess that's my proposal. I'd like to hear what everyone else
thinks but I would say that we give it a trial run for '94 -95. Reduce the hours to 10:00 p.m. all week and reduce
'
the speed limit to some reasonable amount.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I guess maybe I should preface my statement before I get to you Michael. I too am on a
'
snowmobile route that goes past our house for the past 18 years and there are sometimes that the 2:00, 3:00 in
the morning does occur. It is rare but it does happen. And as far as encroaching on property. Yeah, I've had
that situation happen as well. Where they have taken out one of my hugo pines. It's something that I guess I
sort of get used to because I've got one of my sons that has a snowmobile as well. So I sort of chalk it up as
'
experience but that 10:00 curfew time is I think something that we should really look at. Let me go to you.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I have, excuse me, one more item that I just found. I just lost it.
Councilman Wing: You should have used different color ink.
i
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I should have used different color ink. Sorry.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Michael.
Councilman Mason: Well, while you're searching for it. Note, we're all jotting notes tonight. East meets west.
Progress. Should we have snowmobiles or not. I live in Carver Beach, Woodhill Drive. I don't have a
snowmobile. I don't snowmobile but a lot of people in Carver Beach snowmobile and they come up and down '
Woodhill Drive and no, I don't particularly like it but that's the way it is. You know, my lake place. Well, my
father's lake place. Before there was a grant and aid trail, about a half mile away from the cabin, snowmobilers
went all over the place up there and I didn't like it. With that trail, snowmobilers use that trail a lot and there
25 1
t
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
' isn't as much traffic elsewhere. That's a plus. I heard residential area. That it's a residential area and my guess
is it will become more of a residential area. Who's held accountable? Who's liable? If there's an accident on
the trail, does the city get sued because a snowmobile hitting a hiker. Cross country skier. Go off the bluff
' because it wasn't marked. You know, hopefully we can always compromise on issues. I don't think there's a
compromise here. It seems to me we'll either do it or we won't. I think we need some more information before
I make a decision because I have, quite honestly I'm really sitting on the fence right now. I agree with the
' people that want a trail to snowmobile. I think there should be one but I also would not like the snowmobile
going down next to my house. I will say right now, we're talking about, you know Colleen you threw out
10:00. Well, I can't cross country ski in Carver Park after sunset. The park's closed at sunset and I've been
chased out of there more than once, much to my consternation. So 10:00, you know my kids go to bed before
' 10:00 so if it comes to that, 10:00's too late for me. But I guess I would like to, Scott said he wanted, needed
some time to look at some issues. I'd like to explore accountability and liability issues before I make my, how I
feel one way or the other. I think, I forget the gentlemen that talked about, the name who said he's got to put
his skis on top of the car and bike on top of the car, his canoe on top of the car. As Chanhassen grows, those
are issues that all of us that like to engage in recreational activities have to face.
' Mayor Chmiel: Thanks, Mark.
Councilman Senn: Boy, this to me kind of seems like government at it's best and I mean that facetiously. You
know it seems to me that the County decided it doesn't want to deal with an issue so it's kind of advocated it to
' the municipalities and you know it really seems to be a little bit silly and somewhat awkward that we're sitting
here trying to decide that fate of one section of trail and just kind of, are we going to ask people to make U
turns and say only this portion of the trail can be used for this. That portion for this, this and this. It seems to
' me that there are some real valid issues here but I think how the trail is used is one which Hennepin County
ought to decide and I think in the process of doing it, they ought to do a lot more studying than we've done and
I think they also ought to ask for our input. But I see our role as more one of input into a whole trail system
than I do deciding the fate of one small section of trail. There's, you know I guess I'd have to say I'm a little
bit like Michael at this point. I'm really kind of not sure which way I'd actually vote if a vote comes tonight. I
live on a heavily traveled snowmobile area where there are almost continuously 2:00 to 3:00 runs to the fish
houses, etc. And I can say geez, I don't notice the boats much in the summertime but then I've got a lot of
' trees with a lot of foliage on it. But I tell you what, in the wintertime I notice them and they wake me up
constantly. At the same time I like snowmobiles but most of the time I go do my snowmobiling somewhere
else. Of course I have to say that about biking too. so. No doubt that really the people before us tonight as far
as the snowmobiling goes, are responsible people and are probably doing a lot to forward the good of the cause
' so to speak but at the same time I've experienced and I know that there's a lot of people that don't look at it as
conscientiously as you do. I have them using my kids skating rink as a jump and I have them using my business
property rather than the ditch and they have ... trees and other things like that. I think you have a tendency to
pretty much write some of that off because again, no matter what you do ... and I don't think that's only to
snowmobiling. I think it's whatever recreational activity undertaken. So I don't know. Like I said, I'm ready
kind of tom both ways on this one but I would really rather see, given the importance of that corridor, the
' importance of that particular trail as part of an overall system, I'd much rather see a comprehensive approach to
that dealing with the entire trail and corridor than the approach which is now being taken.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Richard.
Councilman Wing: I think my favorite time of the year is spring and fall because the boats and the snowmobiles
are gone and very, very frankly the boats are much more irritating and a bigger problem, especially out on
26
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 }
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is that a motion?
Councilman Wing: I would move to table this and get it back to Park and Rec. Clean it up and then if they
can't make a decision or if there isn't some compromise, I'll be happy to do I
27 1
Minnewashta where all the inboards are. It's just a, and you know when the boats are gone, the snowmobiles
are gone, the traffic noise makes up for it. So I don't know if we're going to win this. On this whole issue I
just want everybody to like me so it seems to be almost hopeless.
,
Councilman Mason: Good luck.
Councilman Wing: A couple quick comments just going down my notes. Enforcement on these issues are
'
general enforcement issues. We're not out, no one is ever going to target a specific snowmobile or a specific car
or a specific boat so when we have a problem, Scott Harr reacts in a general way. And if we have to send 12
sleds out or line the place with police officers, it gets done. But it's general. It's not specific so if someone has
a specific problem with a specific sled, that's kind of light. That's the same with the car and anything else but
,
we do have the ability to go out and enforce an area if there is a problem that develops and there's no question
about that. Winter use is extremely limited. Snowmobiling is extremely limited. There's no snow, there's no
problem. Daytimes aren't an issue. Weekdays really aren't a problem. I live on a trail. It's the weekends that
they're busy. They used to be noisy. They used to be a problem. There used to be swarms of them. Now
they're limited in numbers. It's not as popular as it used to be. They're much quieter. Right next to our house
is an access for the neighborhood. What a nightmare that was but it literally doesn't exist anymore so the
'
problem that I once knew, I used to own one and I got so frustrated with them that I sold it so I could gripe.
Because of all the griping I won't ever go back into it so there's a lot of pros and cons here. The cross country
skiers, that's my biggest problem because I'm the little scooter type guy and the skaters come in and ruin the
trail so come in and groom the trails and the skaters come in and annihilate the cross country trail. They're not
'
compatible. I do find on our trail going through Shorewood, is that if there's no snowmobiles, there's some
cross country skiing, unless it ices up. But if there's snowmobiles, then there's jogging because they pack it
down so I find that for my personal winter use, for jogging, it's convenient for me to have the snowmobiles
'
because they pack it down. I have a running surface to run on. So you know, pros and cons again. I really
agree with Mark. I think first of all I think this should go back to, take our comments and go back to Park and
Rec and hit this head on with the full group and I would like to be there too and address it myself as a
,
councilmember to help give them some direction. But I think more important, I think Park and Rec ought to
take this and give it back to Hennepin County. I think Mark hit it right on the head. Why put it, this little tiny
section with Chanhassen. This little tiny section of Eden Prairie. Make up your mind what you want to do with
that trail. They did it in Shorewood. It's snowmobiles and multiple uses and we live with it and it has not been
,
a problem. There aren't a lot of complaints. There haven't been any accidents. We can go on and on with
these ifs but the reality is, that trail has been fairly compatible for everybody. I use it all the time. Take it
back to Hennepin County see what they want to do and tell them to make a decision and decide how they want
'
to use this trail. That will make it easier for us. If they shoot that down, then I think it's back to us to make
the decision. I also want to know from Scott Harr what our present ordinances are. Snowmobiles aren't banned.
I mean they can ride on the streets or they can't. Certain hours they can't. They can ride in the right -of -ways
'
on the highways so it doesn't matter if you own 400 feet on Pioneer Trail or not, if they stay on the right -of-
way, it's got nothing to do with the homeowner as far as his property goes. I guess I note these little fine points
on those issues. Where is the State law and where are our ordinances at? And if that can go to Park and Rec, it
can all be done there. If it does get back dumped on us, we'll make a decision.
,
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is that a motion?
Councilman Wing: I would move to table this and get it back to Park and Rec. Clean it up and then if they
can't make a decision or if there isn't some compromise, I'll be happy to do I
27 1
1
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994
Councilman Mason: Second.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion?
Councilwoman Dockendorf. Just that I'd like to see more information. I found my little tidbit on cross country
ski trails in the city.
Councilman Wing: On what?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Cross country ski trails. I mean you can go out and do it wherever but are there
any designated trails. I'd like to know the condition on that as well.
Councilman Senn: Dick, I'm a little confused with the motion. Are you suggesting go back to Park and Rec
and Park and Rec act on it and send it back to us or.
Councilman Wing: Well I'd like Park and Rec to tackle the issues. Number one, I think the fast thing ought to
be to send it back to Hennepin County and ask them to make a decision. That's my fast direction. Secondly, in
lieu of that not occurring, meet with these groups. Fine tune the ordinances that exist. Get that information to
us and then if they want to come up with a decision with the full group, send it back to us. I think we're going
to have the same problems. It's going to come back with the same issues. The same two sides. We'll simply
have to take a stand on it at that point. I guess I'd be more comfortable doing it at that part. But I agree with
you, Hennepin fast. That's the direction to Park and Rec. Then see if they come up with a compromise here
that might be compatible in terms of hours or whatever. If it gets back to us, it will be another night like
tonight. We'll just simply have to make a decision. Does that clarify it Mark?
Mayor Chmiel: There's also another factor by the snowmobile club indicating securement of easements and...
have not gotten those easements, that would be something too that I would strongly look at because that would
just negate any of that trail going if you can't acquire those.
Councilman Wing: It's not this club that's the issue. It's the renegades that are the problem and they're going
to be there regardless.
Mayor Chmiel: No, that's right. Oh no, and I realize that. The club has done excellent. They have gone
through the process of teaching other people how to drive snowmobiles and going through the safety aspects so I
know that the club has done an excellent job from that standpoint. So with that I would.
Councilman Mason: One discussion or question, whatever. With this going back to Park and Rec and if they
were to make the motion that it go back to Hennepin County, I would hope that City Council would endorse that
action and there would be some kind of formal statement.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, because I assume that it has to come back to us basically... doesn't it?
Councilman Mason: Yeah, because I would, yeah. I concur.
Mayor Chmiel: But it falls in their realm of responsibility and that's where it should be done. So with that we
have a motion on the floor to table with the following comments that have been given.
28
11
City Council Meeting - August 22, 1994 1
Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to table the request of the Southwest Metro Trail '
Association to utilize the Southwest Regional Light Rail Transit route as a snowmobile trail. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously. '
INTERIM USE PERMIT TO ALLOW SCREENED OUTDOOR STORAGE IN THE BF, BUSINESS
FRINGE DISTRICT, LOCATED AT 10500 GREAT PLAINS BOULEVARD, ADMIRAL WASTE '
MANAGEMENT.
Sharmin Al -Jaffa This site is located north of Highway 212 and south of the Hennepin County Regional
Railroad Authority trail. Highway 101 and is in ... off of Highway 101. The applicant is requesting an interim '
use permit to store commercial dumpsters on property zoned fringe business. There aren't any structures
proposed on this site with the exception of the fence. The fence is proposed to be 100 feet in length. 6 to 8 feet
in height and would screen the dumpsters from views from the highway. The applicant is also proposing to ,
plant 42 spruce trees at a foot and a half in height. The fence is proposed to be of a dog ear treated panel
design. Staff is recommending approval of this application with conditions outlined in the staff report.
However, if you ... some minor corrections. As far as the height of the fence, currently the condition reads,
condition number 1. Reads this fence shall be 8 feet in height. It should read, the fence shall be 6 feet in '
height, not to exceed 8 feet. Another issue that we would just like to bring to your attention. Staff is requesting
that work on Sundays and holidays not be permitted. Now this is not required by ordinance. We put that
condition in there out of consideration to the neighbors in the area. If the City Council wishes to add any '
conditions for this application, we need to find out that there should be a balance between the conditions of
approval and the length of the term that you put on this application. You should allow the applicant to meet
those ... of the site. Again, staff is recommending approval of this application with conditions outlined in the staff '
report. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Sharmin. Is the applicant here this evening? '
Bill Griffith: Mr. Mayor, Council members. My name is Bill Griffith, 1500 Norwest Financial Center,
Bloomington representing the applicant. The permit requested is essentially a permit to build a 150 foot fence to
screen existing construction containers on the site. It would seem a simple matter but I do believe that it needs '
to be put into context so if you'll indulge me for a few minutes. This will not take as long as the snowmobile
discussion. Although I was happy to see that the trail did overlook our site, as it looks at the juncture of
Highway 101 and 212 and as it overlooks the top of the site and down to the bottom, I saw no dumpsters visible '
from that location. So the issue is really screening the construction containers from the roadway. And if you
drive by the site at this time, you'll notice that there's quite a bit of foliage on the site. It's fairly dense and the
topography lends itself to screening from the north and from the other directions. What we are proposing would
screen the dumpsters more than sufficiently during the winter months when foliage is not as dense. The reason '
for this application is related to another matter on your agenda this evening, and that is the amendment to the BF
district uses. To add permitted uses and make additional conditional uses. I don't think there is any coincidence
that these matters are on the same agenda. The applicant has very limited uses today. You're probably aware '
that there are 4 conditional uses and I think 3 interim uses of the property in the BF district. In 1988 the
applicant did have a conditional use permit for a contractors yard and had planned to locate a facility for storing
these types of dumpsters both inside and outside the building and putting... center. They looked at the site and I
think because the recycling was just taking off at that time and as they ... looked at their recycling market, the '
year lapsed and they came back to the Council for an extension and was denied. So they were not able to go
forward with that contractors use. However, they did have permission from the city to store dumpsters, I think
albeit 6 at the time. They continued to use the property in that manner from that time until this for the last 6 or
29 1
CITY OF �
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager
FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director 7T/01'
DATE: August 16, 1994
Action by City Administrat6r
Endorsed
Modifie
Rejecte 4
Dot � - -I —
jDete submitted to Commission
Do Submitted to C MW
� - » —R`
SUBJ: Consider Request of Southwest Metro Trail Association to Utilize Southwest
Regional Light Rail Transit Route as a Snowmobile Trail
' On March 22, 1994, Mr. LeRoy Biteler, sp
Association, asked the Park and Recreation
above mentioned abandoned railroad right -i
' 16, 1994 and resulting minutes). Mike Far.
commission in this regard. Upon entertaini
asked that the issue be placed on a future
On June 28, 1994, the Park and RecreaAan Commission held a public meeting to review the
request of the Southwest Metro Trail association (see attached memorandum dated June 22,
1994 and resulting minutes). Not;#ication of this meetmg'was published in the Chanhassen
Villager and letters were mailed 4 property owners abutti4t, the railroad bed. This mailing
reached the vast majority of�ho neowners; however, resident -A on Heidi Lane were
inadvertently omitted ,from the mailing. Neighborhood "gossip" reached at least some of the
nine households on Heidi..Lan .whio but:111 miii OW right -of -way). The
commission enter,, ned dtsl sim t p� tht; n f pp tely 2Q parsons prior to
closing public commen to discuss the issue among commissioners. Thus one baur long
process concluded witht✓oinmissioner Lash moving, Meger seeondiing tltiat the Park and
Recreation Commission would' recommend.,allowing saowmobiling as the only motorized
activity on the Southwest Regional LRT Trail with" the conditions that the Snowmobile
Club would sign the trail, there would be enforcement of the speed limit and curfew,
a y Y y
and that the Park and Recreation Commis would review this item annually. The
motion failed with a 3 to 3 vote. A second motion was made by Commissioner Andrews,
seconded by Commissioner Manders that the Park and Recreation Commission would
recommend to prohibit snowmobiling on the Southwest Regional Trail. This motion also
failed by a 3 to 3 vote.
iiig:.hs a member of the Southwest Trails
mission to advocate snowmobile travel on the
Zv .
vay (See attached memorandum dated March
of the ;Snowmobile Club also addressed the
a short liscussion that evening, the commission
ida for ublic discussion.
MEMORANDUM
Don Ashworth
August 16, 1994
Page 2 '
SUMMARY OF ISSUES
The southern LRT route is owned by the Hennepin County Regional Railroad '
Authority ( HCRRA) from Hopkins to a point just south of Highway 212 at the
Chanhassen/Chaska border. ,
Hennepin Parks holds an agreement with the HCRRA to utilize the LRT route as a
trail for an undetermined length of time from Hopkins to Bluff Creek Drive in '
Chanhassen. Whatever the decision of the Chanhassen City Council, the Hennepin
Parks Board of Directors has the authority to condone or override any decision handed
down by the city council affecting their portion of the trail. ,
- The City of Chanhassen holds an agreement with the HCRRA to utilize the LRT route
as a trail corridor as a temporary use from Bluff Creek Drive to Highway 212 (see
'
attached agreement).
- Abandoned railroad beds are routinely converted into trails and are often utilized as
'
snowmobile routes.
- Hennepin Parks has fenced portions of the route which were deemed potentially
,
hazardous due to extreme slope drop off.
- The Snowmobile Club is requesting this route be designated as an alternative to their
'
Audubon Road trail (see map).
,
- Some residents who abut the corridor in addition to some residents who do not have
voiced their objection to the proposal to utilize the corridor for snowmobile travel.
- The majority of the homes which are located in the vicinity of the railroad bed lie a
considerable distance from the trail.
'
- If the City of Chanhassen recommends snowmobile travel be allowed, the City of
Eden Prairie must also agree to allow snowmobiles in the corridor from Lake Riley to
Pioneer Trail.
'
- The City of Eden Prairie Park and Recreation Commission voted not to recommend
that snowmobile access be allowed on their portion of the corridor. The Eden Prairie
City Council will review this issue on a future agenda.
- Permission to gain access via private property to Lake Riley on the Chanhassen side
has been secured by the Snowmobile Club.
Don Ashworth
August 16, 1994
Page 3
The City of Chaska Park and Recreation Commission approved this new route on
August 8, 1994. The Chaska City Council will review this issue on a future agenda.
The Snowmobile Club has initiated investigations into a dry land route which bypasses
the City of Eden Prairie, but still utilizes the railroad corridor.
Appropriate notification of this discussion has been mailed. A member of the Park and
Recreation Commission will be in attendance at the August 22 city council meeting to answer
any questions of the council. Representatives of the Snowmobile Club will be available to
initiate this discussion. I await direction from the city council in this regard.
CITY OF �
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739 '
MEMORANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Park and Recreation Commission
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
June 22, 1994
Public Hearing, Southwest Regional LRT Trail, Review Request of Southwest
Metro Trail Association to Utilize Corridor for Snowmobiles
As the commission is aware, Mr. LeRoy Biteler representing the Chanhassen snowmobilers,
'
made a visitor presentation before the commission �bn March 22, 1994, in regard to the future
modes of transportation to be allowed on the dove mentioned trail. Hennepin Parks has
elected to allow the local units of government through which this trail passes to discuss which
mode of transportation are appropriate for the corriL , In speaking with Del Miller of
Hennepin Parks, it is the consensus that travel by horse :or equestrian use will not be allowed.
Furthermore, through conversation with representatives hf Eden Prairie, it appears that
'
snowmobiles will not be allowed on the , trail in the City of Eden Prairie. Likewise, officials
of the City of Chaska have concerns m"'this regard. WithE n aggregate surface, biking,
walking and jogging will represent<the mainstream activities, along this corridor. There are
,
currently no plans to maintain the trail as a cross country sl a, facility; however, it should not
be construed that cross country skiing will *not be allowed. `Wracking operations through the
use of a mechanized track layer is not included in the current maintenance plans. As the
,
commission is aware, - Hennepin, Parks js cgncluding their segi ent of the trail at Bluff Creek
Drive and the Cities of Chanhassen and Chaska are currently, attempting to facilitate the
'. The latter segment is
completion of the trail, from Bluff Creek Drive to Highway 212
located wholly within the 'City of Chanhassen, thus two governing entities (the` City of
Chanhassen and Hennepin Parks) 'llave -the final say as to what ,uses vi 11' be allowed on the
Chanhassen portion of the corridor. I have attacheti the "staff report presented to the
,
commission dated March 16, 1994, the letter of request from LeRoy Biteler representing the
Southwest Metro Trail Association, the minutes which resulted from that discussion, and a
copy of the mailing list and notification letter which was distributed to adjacent landowners
'
and other interested parties.
,
I await the direction of the commission in this regard.
Attachments:
1.
2.
3.
4.
PC:
Staff report dated March 16, 1994
Letter from LeRoy Biteler
Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated March 22, 1994
Notification Letter and Mailing List
Larry O'Dell, Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority
Southwest Street Level
Government Center
Minneapolis, MN 55487 -0016
Del Miller, Hennepin Parks
Mike Liddicoat, Carver County Parks
Dave Pokorney, Chaska City Administrator
Tom Redman, City of Chaska
Bob Lambert, City of Eden Prairie
LeRoy Biteler, Southwest Metro Trail Association
Carol Dunsmore, Eden Prairie Horsemen
June 22, 1994
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 0 CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
E
Dear Resident:
As you may be aware, Hennepin Parks is completing trail improvements on the Hennepin
County Regional Railroad Authority (HCRRA) Light Rail Transit (LRT) route from Hopkins
to Bluff Creek Drive in Chanhassen. The Cities of Chanhassen and Chaska are considering
extending this trail from Bluff Creek to Highway 212 to facilitate future connection to the
City of Chaska. Upon completion, the trail will e, available for walking, jogging, and biking;
use by horses is not being considered and the availability of the trail for snowmobilers is in
question. At present, no use by motorized vehicles is authorized along the corridor.
However, the Southwest Metro Trail Association has requested utilization of the corridor for
snowmobiles from Lake Riley through Chanhassen to ;the City of Chaska. The Chanhassen
Park and Recreation Commission has called a public hearing in this regard for Tuesday, June
28, 1994, in the Chanhassen City Council ,Chambers. This item appears sixth on the
commission's agenda that evening and will be discussed,after 8:00 p.m. If you have an
opinion in this regard, or are interested in the future of this trail, please attend next Tuesday's
meeting. If you are unable to attend and would like to submit written comments, or if you
have additional questions, please call me at 937 -1900, ext ,421.
Sincerely,
Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Director
TH:k
I i
I I
IL
� I
I MS STRUBLE
12420 29TH AVENUE NO
f YMOUTH, MN 55441
II FUAD
45 CHEROKEE TRAIL WEST
EDEN PRAIRIE, MN 55344
UL KILKER
08 8 LAKE POINT
GkAN HASSEN, MN 55317
JOHN REVIER
BOX 358 H
SSEN, MN 55317
t RST AMERICAN BANK
JIM MCWILLIAM
F 3 SO CONCORD
ST PAUL, MN 55075
CHAEL A BOYLAN
700 SOUTHRIDGE COURT
MINNETONKA, MN 55345
UL TAUNTON
125 CROSSTOWN CIRCL
#310
f EN PRAIRIE, MN 55344
LELAND F GOHLIKE
1 661 MYERON ROAD
ILLWATER, MN 55082
KIRK A MACKENZIE
10420 BLUFF CIRCLE
Chaska, MN 55318
LEE ANDERSON
6651 MINNEWASHTA PKWY
Excelsior, MN 55331
DENNIS BARTHOLOW
9841 DEERBROOK DR
CHANHASSEN, MN 55317
GREGORY LAWLER
9900 DEERBROOK DR
CHANHASSEN, MN 55317
DAVID J PELLER
1819 HAEG DR
BLOOMINGTON, MN 55431
JEFFREY MICHEL
11887 WATERFORD ROAD
EDEN PRAIRIE, MN 55344
GERALD BERTSCH
8556 IRWIN ROAD
BLOOMINGTON, MN 55437
EVERETT OLSON
1675 FLYING CLOUD DR
Chaska, MN 55318
JOSEPH KANDIKO
10421 BLUFF CIRCLE
Chaska, MN 55318
RICHARD NIEMI
10460 BLUFF CIRCLE
Chaska, MN 55318
JOHN LONSTEIN
1559 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE NO
MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55427
JOHN POULOS
6600 FRANCE AVENUE
#660
MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55435
GEORGE NELSON & ASSOC.
1660 SO HIGHWAY 100
MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55416
STONE ARCH INC
2750 STONE ARCH ROAD
WOODLAND, MN 55391
THOMAS ZWIERS
11111 DEUCE ROAD
ELKO, MN 55020
WILFRED H JR DAHLKE
1705 FLYING CLOUD DR
Chaska, MN 55318
VERNON TEICH DAN TESTER TERRANCE BEAUCHANE
220 FLYING CLOUD DR 230 FLYING CLOUD DR 240 FLYING CLOUD DR
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317
LEON MESENBRINK LE VERNE M VASSAR ALVIN LEBENS
250 FLYING CLOUD DR 285 FLYING CLOUD DR 460 FLYING CLOUD DR
Chaska, MN 55318 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 Chaska, MN 55318
WILLARD A.
HALVER
SORENSEN PROPERTIES
JOSEPH NOTERMANN
470 FLYING
CLOUD DR
J MICHAEL SORENSEN
1205 WEST 6TH AVENUE
Chaska, MN
55318
ROUTE 2 BOX 187K
SHAKOPEE, MN 55379
BELLE PLAINS, MN 56011
CHESTER J.
TEICH
RICHARD DEE
SHERYL HOUGH
825 FLYING
CLOUD DR
1201 HESSE FARM CIRCLE
1225 HESSE FARM CIRCLE
Chaska, MN
55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
EDWARD MUELLER JOHN FORCE PAUL ALLEN
1251 HESSE FARM CIRCLE 1001 HESSE FARM ROAD 1002 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
DANIEL SMITH WM E HARDER GARY BAKER
1020 HESSE FARM ROAD 1025 HESSE FARM ROAD 1075 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN 55318 CHASKA, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
FRAYNE JOHNSEN TODD J ROGERS HOWARD NOZISKA
1100 HESSE FARM ROAD 1101 HESSE FARM ROAD 1120 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN 55318 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 Chaska, MN 55318
BRUCE RECH ROBERT PERRY ROGER BROWN
1180 HESSE FARM ROAD 1181 HESSE FARM ROAD 1200 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
EUGENE JUNKER
1250 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN 55318
THOMAS TOUSSAINT
6864 STONEWOOD COURT
EDEN PRAIRIE, MN 55346
GARY WEHRWEIN ROBERT STEFFES
CHASKA DRUG 1350 HESSE FARM ROAD
323 CHESTNUT Chaska, MN 55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
NICK EVANOFF RUSSEL BARTO
1401 HESSE FARM ROAD 400 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
JOHN B PAUL LOWELL CAMPBEL TIM WISE
1 7$41 MANCHESTER AVENUE
RVINE, CA 92714
J AVERNE WHEELER
445 LAKOTA LANE
�haska, MN 55318
A MONROE
65 LAKOTA LANE
CHASKA, MN 55318
l AMES SALERUD
30 VOGELSBERG TRAIL
haska, MN 55318
415 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN 55318
M. C. HAPPE
495 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN 55318
VERNE SEVERSON
675 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN 55318
SCOTT FINLEY
740 VOGELSBERG TRAIL
Chaska, MN 55318
425 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN 55318
DEVAL MEDH
535 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN 55318
ALLEN ROTHE
750 VOGELSBERG TRAIL
Chaska, MN 55318
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Andrews: I think we need a motion or a resolution of support here I guess is what we really 1
need here.
Huffman: With ongoing discussion involving... community people who have never had a
chance to voice before.
Lash: I can't imagine that Shorewood wouldn't have a similar policy as Chanhassen that '
anyone affected by things like this, are notified. So if you're not being notified, I'd call the
Shorewood City Hall and ask to be notified of any future.
Ga ry Carlson: I have been there. '
Andrews: I guess I'd send them a certified letter and if they didn't notify you of a meeting '
pertaining to that park after receiving a certified letter, I guess I'd argue they'd probably be in
violation of some law. Because I know that when developers own property here and there's
any action going on with it, we have to send them notices that we're discussing the land so. ,
I think it's unanimous here that we would support the City of Shorewood improving a park
that we get to use so I don't think we need a formal motion do we Todd to move ahead on '
this, or would you like a motion of support? Let's have a motion of support then please.
Roeser: I move we support Shorewood's plan for improvement of Cathcart Park. '
Andrews: Second?
Lash: Second. '
Roeser moved, Lash seconded that the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission
support Shorewood's plans for improvements to Cathcart Park. All voted in favor and
the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING: SOUTHWEST REGIONAL LRT TRAIL. REVIEW REOUEST '
OF SOUTHWEST METRO TRAIL ASSOCIATION TO UTILIZE CORRIDOR FOR
SNOWMOBILES. '
Public Present:
Name Address ,
Daniel & Kathy Smith 1020 Hesse Farm Road
Bob Steffes 1350 Hesse Farm Road
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Karen Dee
Georgia Kandiko
Lee K. Anderson
Willard Halver
Todd Kurtz
John Heerdt
Cheryl Marszalek
Allen Koenig
Mark Briol
LeRoy Biteler
Bill Roberts
Bill Kullberg
Brad Blomquist
Jeff & Brenda Meredith
Jussi Leliti
1201 Hesse Farm Circle
10421 Bluff Circle, Chaska
10441 Bluff Circle, Chaska
470 Flying Cloud Drive
5215 Polk Avenue, Mayer
Rt. 1, Box 40, Mayer
10360 Heidi Lane
12610 98th St, Cologne
10377 Heidi Lane
910 Penamint Court
880 Lake Drive
P.O. 34, Navarre
7141 Derby Drive
1050 Butte Court
8200 West Lake Court
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Mark Briol: I don't think many people who have adjacent land to that track got
notification of this meeting. I got notification yesterday and my back yard...
Andrews: Sir, I'm going to invite comments from all members of the audience here very
soon so, in fact I'll do that at this time. Anybody wishing to speak about this issue from the
audience, please step to the mic. State your name and address please.
Willard Halver: My name is Willard Halver. I live at 470 Flying Cloud Drive. That's just
close to the line. Oh about half a block or 3/4 of a block between the old, where the TH 101
railroad bridge was. I've lived there 37 years and it seems as though it's been a little bit of
an ongoing problem for me and I've lived with it. My house is about 250 feet down the side
here and it wasn't so bad when the railroad was in there. Certainly the trains coming through
kind of kept the things in order but this past spring now, we've had 3 wheel all terrain
t vehicles up on there. 250. Unlicensed. Tearing up and down the bluff area. Up behind
Sorenson's buildings to the railroad, the old railroad right -of -way. Past my place. Up
through where Dr. Monroe and the other people live on the bluff. They've got regular trails
' in there and they're running... evening or not. If you went back far enough from my place
you would see it.
I Andrews: We rode all the way through there tonight and we.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Willard Halver: ...and back up and make a run ... anyhow, what the climax to the whole thing,
I've kind of overlooked this. We were gone for the winter and we came back last April and I
knew this was going on and I just let it ride. 10th of June my wife and I usually take a little
nap in the afternoon at oh, 1:00, 1:30, 2:00. And the dog barked and something funny was
hitting the house. And I was kind of half asleep and she was kind of half asleep and the...
we didn't think too much of it and then finally the third piece hit the house. So I got up and
looked around and I couldn't see anything and I went outside and here I started picking up a
rock here, a rock there. Four pieces of rocks. Now this is this crushed stuff off the edge of
this railroad bed. So I take it upon myself to go up and find out where and what was going
on. I just missed the culprit. He got back on on the all terrain vehicle and was down the
road when I was up there. You could see in the weeds where he had parked. And he has to
get over about 250, or maybe 300 feet so that's an awful arms throw. You've got to be
better than Kirby Puckett in order to throw that far. Now it was only ... 4 to 6 rocks that I
picked up in my yard. And I called Scott Harr. I had to go through the iron curtain to get
ahold of Scott Harr. I could get ahold of Scott Harr. Then finally he took my call and made
a report out on it. I was told to call the Chaska Sheriff's Department, which I did. Well
gosh Mr. Halver, they're out on an emergency right now. It's going to be some time before
they come. I went back up the hill. Here comes this ATV, just going ... at that point I had to
hide behind the trees. The wife looks out the kitchen window and here is Mr. Culprit looking
and he saw her. He tore on the all terrain vehicle. It did come over the scanner and the
owner of this business, of the Sorenson building and the guy that did the dirty work, took off
out there and we never saw them for 2 more days. This is why I called Scott Harr and I sent
a letter to him 2 weeks ago and I haven't got an answer. I said what's going on down there.
So public safety to me is a sh word. We don't get the support we need. So I am against
until, ...until we get some law enforcement on that trail. There's been tires dumped out there
on that trail. Hennepin County's got it posted now so it's ... but there's a garbage dump out
there because I go out there every once in a while and walk and I used to walk when the
railroad was there. I've lived there for 37 years. But until we get some law enforcement
there, I'm against it 100 %. And like I say, there's nothing from preventing these 3 wheel all
terrain vehicles from putting a ski on in the wintertime and using them as a snowmobile. So
the minute this permit is granted for snowmobiles, how many other types of, they can roll on
them with tires. How many other types of vehicles can use it snowmobiles. Thank you.
Andrews: Thank you sir.
Mark Briol: Members of the panel, I appreciate your patience. I did not get notice of this
hearing, nor have I gotten notice of any other hearings before this panel relating to what
constitutes basically my back yard.
Andrews: Could you state your name and address.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
' Mark Briol: My name is Mark Briol your honor. I got notice yesterday when the neighbor
stuck a notice in my box. This was my response today. I had no idea that this was going to
used as a bike trail, much less a snowmobile trail. Snowmobile trail or anything else. I
contacted the Minnesota Attorney General's office and the Environmental Quality Board and
they're generally wondering whether or not there's a mandatory environmental assessment
statement that needs to filed. And if not, whether the petitioning process can take place.
Second of all, I want this Board to know about the safety concerns I have of anything taking
place back there. I've called 911 on more than one occasion to complain about people
' shooting in my back yard. They go back there and they hunt deer and they hunt everything
else. I don't know what's going to happen now with respect to the hunting regulations in my
back yard but people are shooting in my back yard, which is right by where those railroad
path is going to be. I have some serious concerns. I go back there once or twice a year to
see what my back yard is like. I walk down the trail. I pick up pop cans. I pick up shotgun
shells. I pick up garbage. Who's going to take care of the littering? In terms of safety
' concerns for people along the path, if you walk the path today, if you went down there, you'll
see as you go down there that there's a significant drop off on the incline. It can go down 10
or more feet and they go down in the marsh and things like that. Well who's going to pick
' up the garbage down there, number one. Number two, if there's going to be snowmobiles in
there or if there are going to be people on that trail, there should be guardrails. There should
be something to keep people from falling off that path and getting injured. Second of all
with respect to physical safety, I agree with what this gentleman has said. There's no police
protection out where I am. I've got to call 911. I have never, in the 5 years I've been there,
seen a police car out in Hesse Farm, or anywhere near Hesse Farm. Not even to pick up
' speeders. The only way I get a police car out there is if I call them. And I pay a significant
amount of property taxes. Fire hazards. Now if there's going to be increased traffic back
there in the, I don't want my back yard to turn into a Los Angeles. It gets very dry back
' there on occasions. If there's going to be increased traffic, and people are going to be tossing
out cigarette butts, I'd as soon not see any cigarette smoking on that trail. I don't want
somebody to toss a cigarette butt off and have my whole back yard torched. And if you
t know the way the development is put together, the woods go all the way up the hill and they
surround the houses. I mean if that place gets torched, everybody's house gets torched
because I don't see any fire hydrants out there. I don't see where anybody could come out
there and make any kind of reasonable approach to public safety to save the environment if
the place goes up. Second of all with respect to snowmobiles. I've got to tell you this. Last
year I was walking with my daughter down one of the paths on the east side. A snowmobile
' came buzzing by us. They came up behind a horse. Now the horse couldn't move aside.
Either he was, the path just wasn't wide enough. So the horse rears up and bucks and the
' snowmobiles continue to follow it down the path until finally they get to a place where the
horse can go aside. I'm not sure the paths are wide enough to be able to sustain either
snowmobiles passing each other or people walking on it at the same time snowmobiles are on
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
there. It just is, I'm concerned I've never gotten notice before. I responded in a timely
manner and I hope that you consider both, whether or not you're going to make a path and
two, what you're going to use it for. Thanks.
Andrews: Thank you.
Dan Smith: Members, good evening. My name is Dan Smith. I live at 1020 Hesse Farm
Road in Chaska. I say Chaska because that's our mailing address but we're in Chanhassen.
We're down in that little part of the city where we get no services until things like this occur.
The easiest thing to do is just say no. You know, don't do it. Snowmobiles, absolutely not.
It's not a good spot for it. People who are affected, you know are the ones who are going to
put up with this garbage. We also did not get notification and I appreciate my neighbors
getting me to this meeting because it's a tremendous annoyance if something like this occurs.
You've got the opportunity here. Eden Prairie's already saying no. Chaska's going to make
up their mind in a few years but just stop it right now.
Andrews: Anybody else from the audience?
Resident: I don't need to state...
Andrews: Thank you. Anybody else feels the same?
Resident: Well I too live on high ... and the snowmobile traffic that already illegally uses that
trail makes a terrible noise. It's something that wakes up somebody from sound asleep. If
it's a sanctioned snowmobile trail, I'm concerned that the use will be continuous all night and
all day.
Andrews: Anybody else have any comments or more than a few seconds, please do step up
and state your name and address. Not only is it good that you get on the record but the
Council does get copies of the Minutes. It may be important. It also might make it easier for
us to notify you if there's future hearings.
Resident: Would you like our names and addresses?
Andrews: Well there will be a sheet that goes around. Why don't you make sure you get, if
you're not.
Lash: And if you are not on ... chances are you're not going to be picked up for the record.
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i Bob Steffes: My name is Bob Steffes. I live at 1350 Hesse Farm Road. I'm the
neighborhood president for the east association. I've been getting mailings regularly on any
' action for the neighborhood yet- on this one we did not receive a mailing. Is there any reason
why this one?
' Huffman: There's a conspiracy.
Roeser: Todd, is this an official public hearing?
Hoffman: No, it is not. Mr. Steffes is on the mailing list that was prepared for this. Daniel
Smith, 1020 Hesse Farm Road is on the list.
Dan Smith: Are you mailing it to Chanhassen because we don't get mail if it says
Chanhassen.
' Hoffman: The addresses are Chaska, Minnesota 55318. And then again your letter ... 1025
Hesse Farm Road was on this and... If they did truly not get their's ... we'll find out. As far
' as ... computer generated and if that street is not listed on that search so that was an error and
that will be corrected.
Andrews: I'd like to ask the people that did not receive mailing today, or by today, if they
do receive them late, that they contact the city office and note how many days it took them
to get their mail so in future hearings that an appropriate amount of mailing time could be
' used.
' Resident: Only one person in the neighborhood received a mailing and that was Howard
Noziska, if I'm not mistaken. Howard was a past member of I believe the Planning
Commission. Maybe that's why he was notified but in the past we...
' Andrews: Yeah we do but I have to also point out that occasionally on city mailings that I've
gotten them the day of a meeting and that's cutting it awful close.
t Resident: - Who maintains the trail? There's just some general questions about who will
maintain this trail once it's constructed.
' Huffman: Do you want to start at the beginning and just explain where the trail is too? I
mean it's the railroad bed we're talking about. We're not talking about your neighborhoods
and streets and things of that nature. Okay, we're talking about the railroad bed.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Resident: Right. There's a trail there existing already on the south edge of the Hesse Farm
property.
Huffman: Correct.
Resident: Right, absolutely. And who's going to maintain that once it's constructed? It's
finished now...
Hoffman: As everyone knows, it's owned by the Hennepin County Regional—at least as the
commission is aware. Hennepin Parks has an agreement with the HCIA to utilize that trail
and that corridor as a trail. Hennepin Parks is the governmental jurisdiction in charge of it,
thus they will be maintaining it. Unless they make some agreements otherwise...
Resident: So it will be maintained if it's damaged by snowmobiles or other forms activity?
Hoffman: That's correct.
Andrews: Could I ask Todd to clarify too. The jurisdictional control of uses. How that's
determined so everybody is aware how that's working.
Hoffman: Hennepin Parks obviously they have the agreement with people on that property.
However they have to look to each individual municipality to take the initiative to find out
what the residents, the user groups of the individual communities would like to see take place
on that trail. Thus they have given the individual communities the liberty to hold these type
of neighborhood informational meetings. This commission has held these, on this speck
trail dealing with horses. The horse groups. The snowmobile groups. The commission has
looked at 2 years ago at taking this project upon themselves. The commission was not ...to it.
You've taken a look at a variety of things over the years. But for everyone's information,
Hennepin County's jurisdiction stops at Bluff Creek. The City of Chaska then ... to the city of
Chanhassen has maintained the segment from Bluff Creek Drive to the Highway 212.
Resident: So the present trail is off limits to all motorized vehicles, is that correct?
Hoffman: - The operations policy has not been established.
Resident: I thought that had.
Hoffman: The Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority has notified properties that no
motorized vehicles. Hennepin Parks has not...
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
1 Andrews: And that's why we're here tonight.
' Resident: The Southwest Trail Association was mentioned in the letter.
Hoffman: They have spokespeople here this evening...
Resident: Okay. The only other thing I'd like to mention is that the use of snowmobiles on
that trail will ruin the use of the trails for other things such as cross country skiing and other
1 activities. I don't think they will mix very well. Thank you very much.
Huffman: Real quick, Mr. Briol? You talked about the public safety never has been around.
1 You've never been to a Jim Huff's birthday party then in your neighborhood?
Mark Briol: Ah no.
Huffman: Okay.
1 Georgia Kandiko: I'm Georgia Kandiko and I do wish to go on record as being opposed to
opening this trail for snowmobiles. I live at 10421 Bluff Circle. I did receive notification,
1 thank you very much and this one is at my back yard also. It is a noisy problem already.
When it is established as a snowmobiles are allowed to use this. They already are using this
trail ... so I'm adamantly opposed to this ... thank you.
1 Andrews: I'd ask to indulge the commission with brief comments. We've got a whole bunch
more to go yet tonight so, alright. Thank you.
' Resident: ...I just have one question with regards to maintenance of the trails by Hennepin
County. Does that include trash pick -up ?.
1 Hoffman: Yes it does as far as I understand. They had sent out a mailing that they would be
holding a meeting in this regard to the municipalities I believe on July 17th at their
1 headquarters at French Regional Park. That was one of the items on there...
Resident: I would just state that I also am opposed to snowmobiles...
Karen Dee: My name is Karen Dee at 1201 Hesse Farm Circle. This also is part of my back
yard. I did not receive notice. I'd like to go on record as stating I'm very opposed. In
1 addition to the safety and environmental concerns... integrity. We've made several inquiries
and have always been told there was no motorized vehicles. I would hope they live up to
that.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Roeser: I can tell you this about all Hennepin County trails. They don't go out on motorized
vehicles on their trails but see we've been given the authority to decide that in Chanhassen.
Karen Dee: ...go through Hennepin County and Carver County ... that there would be no
motorized vehicles.
Roeser: Yeah. I ride their bike trails a lot and they don't.
Andrews: Is there anybody here from that snowmobile association that wish to make any
comments tonight?
Leroy Biteler: Good evening. My name is Leroy Biteler and I am a member of the
Chanhassen Snowmobile Club. A member of the Southwest Trail Association. I guess to
start off with, I was happy to see on some of these letters that were sent in that there was at
least one that had a positive note to our trail system being allowed on railroad beds. In
comments from some of the things that have been said, snowmobilers in the past in our
community have encouraged and brought on through law enforcement to our trail system.
Not only has the DNR been on our trail system, patrolling the trail system. We, as a club,
have encouraged and called and arranged with Carver County ... somehow on our trail system
with some of our own personnel and patrolled the trail. What I'm saying here is that we
have assisted and will continue to assist in helping patrol any trails we have in our trail
system. We would like to get even more involved in that standpoint but that may not be as
easily done as what we would like it to. It's not unusual for railroad lines to be converted to
trail systems to have motorized vehicles with skis. Such as the county. We have a trail
system that runs through Shorewood and out to Victoria which has gone from rail to trails
and allowed snowmobiles.
Andrews: Is that the Luce Line?
Leroy Biteler: The Luce Line is one. What is the name of the one in Shorewood? Is that
the Luce Line or is there a name for that?
Roeser: The Luce Line's in Wayzata.
Resident: The Luce Line goes out through Orono and out...
Leroy Biteler: And the one in Shorewood going to Victoria.
Resident: It has not an official name right now but it has been taken over by Hennepin
Parks.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Leroy Biteler: Okay. As far as an environmental issue, I really don't think that is an issue
on a railroad bed that is now going to be a gravel bed. There has been, we have done with
respect to decibels with snowmobiles and sound, how far, how far they will transmit the
sound and we have been documenting some information here. One of the gentleman that
actually was involved with doing those tests on one of the railroad beds that at one time was
a problem. He may speak later. As far as the width of the trail, Todd do you know how
wide this trail is going to be?
Hoffman: The trail would be 10 feet from the shoulders.
Leroy Biteler: 10 feet is plenty wide enough ... for snowmobiles to pass.
Resident: Oh no...
Andrews: I'd have to state that we drove this in a Chevy Suburban tonight and it was amply
wide for that to drive the trail, and a Chevy Suburban's at least 8 feet wide. About 8 feet
wide. We had plenty.
Hoffman: The specifications on the trail are 10 feet wide which...
Resident: The sign says no motorized vehicles tonight.
Huffman: I was pushing.
Leroy Biteler: That being the case, it is most definitely wide enough for snowmobiles to
pass. Our trails, our Southwest Trails groom the trail systems so that that will maintain a
width of 8 to 10 feet because we'll be able to groom that both ways. As opposed to just
having one track run down with a snowmobile. As far as Eden Prairie. Eden Prairie has not
had the trail system for some time. It's no surprise that they do not want us to coming
towards that Eden Prairie direction. As far as Chaska, I believe there's someone here from
Chaska... basically looking at the snowmobiling in their community and seeing where it's
going to go. It's not been ... deal as to whether they will or will not have snowmobiles in
Chaska. This trail will be a benefit to Chaska as well as to us as to make it a safer trail and
easily accessed to get away from making it a real close resident. As far as cross country
skiing. The snowmobile will not bruise the trail. Generally speaking a cross country skier
would generally prefer to run on a packed trail, whether it happens to be packed by a
snowmobile groomer tractor or a snowmobile.
Andrews: I'd ask that members of the audience to please hold your comments down. We do
invite everybody to speak without being interrupted. Thank you.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Leroy Biteler: As a matter of fact the cross country skiers have a grooming system which
they groom and compact a place for the skis to run so we will not be ruining that trail. As
long as the snowmobiling is allowed in Chanhassen, I'd like to basically keep it as safe and
proper as possible and that is one of the objectives that this trail will do for us. 1'd also like
to maintain a safe recreational activity in Chanhassen as long as possible. Our local club as
approximately 73 members. We've been very, very active in the community. Trying to
patrol our trail system and the community...
Meger: Mr. Biteler, can you speak a little bit more ... about the safety aspects. I believe when
you addressed us earlier you talked about how this trail would eliminate a lot of the ditch
riding and some of the...
Leroy Biteler: Right now our trail system goes down CR 17 to the south to Lyman Blvd and
then go to the west, which all of that area right now is ridden in the ditch line. When we get
on Lyman Blvd and go to the west, we have to get up onto the shoulder of the road, which is
directly at traffic. Our lights must shine directly into the automobiles windshields at night
and that is unsafe for both the automobile and the snowmobiler. This route right now would
take us, once we get Lyman Blvd from CR 17, we would then go east on Lyman Blvd until
we hit the lake. Lake Riley and from that point we can access the railroad bed virtually
eliminating the having to run in ditch lines and ... with a number of things and automobiles,
we're eliminating that automobiles are a problem with meeting one another. And really it
appears to me that there are very few homes that are really very, very close to that railroad
bed. In my mind I see a couple of homes, having to drive down that railroad bed, that are
close to that railroad bed.
Lash: What do you mean by close?
Leroy Biteler: I can only see two homes.
Lash: Are they right next to it or is it 200 feet away or?
Leroy Biteler: One of them is probably 125 feet away. The other one happens to be the
house which is right on the edge of Lake Riley that has some horses in a fenced in area.
That is probably 200 to 300 foot. We actually don't cross their properties... that part of the
railroad bed. It's closer to the Eden Prairie side.
Hoffman: Chairman Andrews, this overhead references what Leroy was discussing. I should
inform the audience that the dashed line represents the trail which is marked on their plan.
This dark line here is not a part of their plan. I just showed it for illustration purposes to
show what they're asking for this evening.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Andrews: Anyone else from the audience. Pardon me, are you done Mr. Biteler?
Leroy Biteler: No, I'm done.
Andrews: Okay. Anyone else with comments, I would again beg that you keep them brief.
We have a very long agenda tonight and we need to get through as much as we can.
Dick Putnam: Mr. Chairman, my name is Dick Putnam I don't live here but in just
listening and we have a bit of experience.
Huffman: Where are you from?
Dick Putnam: Wayzata. I have the next item on the agenda, if it helps. A couple things.
We have leased land in Eden Prairie to the Southwest Trails Association for probably, I don't
know 10 years I suppose. Throughout Eden Prairie connecting to Chanhassen for a dollar a
year or something like that. And I'll give them a lot of credit. We've never had one single
problem with them doing that. As the land has developed however, their trails have just gone
away and we've not had any requests for the last two years. Secondly, we're developing a
project on the Luce Line up in Orono which is 46 single family lots. We've got about oh
maybe a third of a mile frontage on the Luce Line. I would recommend that the staff
probably talk to the city of Orono and the other communities, Plymouth, Wayzata on out.
There are different restrictions on what can be used on the Luce Line depending upon where
you are. As it stays further out, the further west you go, the more activity is allowed. So
snowmobiles are only allowed as you get to the far end of it. I think you would probably be
well...to look at the requirements that those cities have along the Luce Line ... in Eden Prairie,
we have a development on either side of this same trail and probably a half a mile of
property... We have looked at that trail as an asset. Not as a light rail corridor but as ... same
thing is true with the Luce Line. Those folks I know were very concerned about having a
trail in their back yard but if it's maintained properly and developed properly, from a
developers standpoint...
Andrews: Any other comments from the audience?
Bill Kullberg: My name is Bill Kullberg. I'm the Trail Coordinator for the Southwest Trails
Association and I live at P.O. Box 34, Navarre, Minnesota 55392. I'd just like to discuss a
few things when we were talking about a railroad corridor. Even if Chanhassen does... non-
profit corporation. We were organized by 8 clubs in the southwest area at this time and... We
have the funding available to make this a multi- purpose trail so everyone gets to use it.
Whether you're a cross country skier or hiker or biker, horseback riding and so forth. We put
up stop signs. We have the availability of doing any of the landscaping and correcting of any
44
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
of the steep slopes ... In the city of Shorewood, it's a highly dense populated area. There's a
lot of traffic coming off of Lake Minnetonka feeding into our trail system and we've been
working with that city very diligently since about 1985. We still have a trail in a highly
populated area. We have a curfew there at 11:00. There's no motorized... there's a 20 mph
speed limit. For the last couple years now there have been more than a couple of complaints
per year now and the cops are down there with radar so there is ability to take care of these
kinds of problems. We do not allow 3 wheel vehicles or ATV on our trails. I believe the
Carver County Sheriff's Department has a special unit now. They have two snowmobiles and
they have ... in fact they ask us for different activities that they can participate or trail
patrolling and so forth. They have two Polaris snowmobiles and seeing that this trail goes
right into Chaska along TH 212, and their Sheriff's office is just about a stone's throw away
from the trail up in Chaska... We also have a conservation officer... Thank you.
Andrews: Anyone else?
Resident: I'll be brief. My name is—regarding cross country skiers concerning the packed
trails by snowmobiles... And the other one is the...
Andrews: Thank you. I'm going to cut off any more comments at this time. We've got to
take action or we'll be here until tomorrow morning. Any comments from the commission
members about this?
Manders: I guess initially I had, after reading the material, I was contemplating something
along the lines of some type of yearly review of motorized vehicles but from what I'm
hearing, I'm prone to vote against any kind of motorized activity on this trail.
Roeser: I guess I really kind of, my heart goes out to the snowmobilers. It's a legal activity
and those people do hold licenses. They do pay fees to ride those things and I supposed it's
the same old thing. There's a few people that screw everything up for you guys and that's
kind of sad. I noticed over the last couple years that they've gotten quieter. You know you
don't hear the roaring. I cross country ski and I don't think we can, I think we'd have a real
problem with cross country skiers and snowmobilers on that trail. Especially when you get...
there is some danger there so I don't know if you'd be willing to accept speed limits on a
trail like that. I really have a, I really can't make up my mind when I think about it. I don't
see the snowmobilers as the villains that all these people do. I don't see them as, you know
they irritate me a little bit out in the woods too because I can smell the gas you know, but
golly it's a legal thing and it's something we sell. It's an economic thing. I guess I would
like to look at it a little more. I can't decide right now whether I would want them or not.
45
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Andrews: I'll be brief because I want to get home before tomorrow morning. I do not
support motorized vehicles on this trail at all, in any form. That's it for me.
' Huffman: No motorized vehicles during the summer at all. There shouldn't be motorcycles,
3 wheels hanging around there. I like snowmobiling. I make no bones about it. You're in
the winter. Your houses are closed. It's the doppler effect. It goes ... go by. Or we also have
' a right to have other people in your neighborhood hear about that so if we do anything else
I'd recommend that we move to put this forward so that other people can talk about. The
Hennepin County corridor here it says, in their minds we've got—but however it should not
' be construed that cross country skiing will not be allowed and I cannot consciously think that
even if you're 20 mph, somebody on a pair of skis loses to somebody on a sled. And I love
' snowmobiling as much as anybody and I cannot in my mind allow that to happen. If there's
people walking about or potentially walking about, you can't have a sled there.
J
Meger: I agree that there be no motorized vehicles in the summer. I guess I lean a little bit
more towards allowing snowmobiling on this trail. I'm not a snowmobiler. I'm a cross
country skier and from what I know of the area, there seems to be a lot of nice trails for
cross country skiing and the snowmobilers continue to be shut out and I have concerns about
their riding in the ditches. Lights shining into my eyes as I'm driving so I would prefer to
have something on a trail. I would definitely go for a curfew. I would probably move it
even to maybe 10:00 and definitely a speed limit as well.
Lash: I want to try to remember that our responsibility here is to provide recreational
opportunities for the citizens of Chanhassen and that is currently an allowed activity and it is
really feeling the squeeze from development. The more the city develops, the fewer spots
there are for snowmobilers to go. And unless we would decide to ban snowmobiling totally
from the city, I think it's part of our responsibility to allow a safe place for them to do this.
Now I have concern with cross country skiers too but as Jane said, I think that there are more
opportunities for cross country skiers so I would support the snowmobiling on the trail. I
would not support summer activity because I would like the summer activity to remain the
walkers and bikers and joggers. And I would definitely want it to be defined with hours and
speed limit and I would want it to open for review.
Andrews: Why don't you make a motion and see if it will fly.
Lash: I would move that we allow snowmobiling as the only motorized activity on this trail
with the conditions that the snowmobile club would sign it and that there would be
enforcement of the speed limit and that there would be a curfew and that we would review
this item yearly.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 1
Andrews: Is there a second to that motion?
Meger: Second. I
Hoffman: And the clarification of Commissioner Huffman... whether or not it would be cross
country skiing or snowmobiling. Hennepin Parks ... and maintain this for cross country skiing
'
in their operation because they do that at many of their regional park facilities. Thus they do
not want to do that. If the city of Chanhassen is going to ... if you would like to designate it
as a snowmobile route, and then appeal to the other cities, obviously you have to consider the
'
city of Eden Prairie if you want to make this route occur and then you have to have it
approved by the Hennepin Parks Board. You can do that as well...
'
Andrews: I don't think Jan intended to exclude cross country skiers.
Lash: I don't look at it as a compatible use.
'
Andrews: You would like to see this as a snowmobile trail, designated trail, okay.
just
'
Resident: So I need a little clarification here. You sa y in the winter time y ou only want
� y y y
that to be available for the snowmobilers?
'
Lash: Well I guess I don't look at it as compatible with cross country skiing but if people
want to cross country ski, I guess I wouldn't personally have a problem with that.
'
Resident: Assuming they don't get killed, right?
Lash: Right, and that's my fear. What's why I'm saying personally I don't think it's
'
compatible. I would worry about the cross country skier and snowmobiling...
Resident: So let me—you're voting to make it a snowmobile trail during the winter—is a
'
form of recreation. Do you think there's more snowmobilers than cross country skiers?
Lash: I said there are a lot of other opportunities for cross country skiers.
Resident: Where? ...in Chanhassen. I
Andrews: Please, order here. It's late and it's going to get real late here if we don't control
this. '
Resident: Just clarification. I understand what you're voting on.
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I Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
Resident: Obviously the citizens of Chanhassen who own property don't matter.
Huffman: Absolutely.
Lash: There is a motion.
' Andrews: We have a motion and I think we're all free here to state our opinions as we wish
and I think you're jumping to a conclusion here that we have certain opinions here so let's
' wait and see what the discussion is. Could you restate the motion please.
Lash: Okay, the motion is that we would allow snowmobiling with the conditions that the
' snowmobile club would post it, sign it. There would be enforcement of speed limit and a
curfew and there will be no other recreational vehicles allowed on this trail in the summer.
Andrews: No motorized vehicles other than snowmobiles in the winter time only.
Lash: Other than snowmobiles.
Andrews: And I believe what you're saying is that this trail would be designated a
snowmobile trail but cross country skiers would not be prohibited but they would not be
' recommended.
Lash: Right.
' Andrews: Okay. That's I think what we're getting at here. Is there any further discussion
from the commission?
' Huffman: I would almost like to see this moved forward so the neighbors could, you know
we've got a group of people here tonight who, I mean the association is well organized. I
mean they're documented. They have done an outstanding job in the community. They do a
' phenomenal job with their trail system and everything. We also have a neighborhood over
here who feels like they have been almost railroaded into this meeting and ... but I would
' almost like it to move forward for another time so they can sit back a little bit and maybe
have the people do care a little bit, and have an opportunity to...
' Andrews: Our action tonight is not formal action. It would then be moved up to Council I
believe, correct for formal recommendation to the Hennepin County Road?
I Hoffman: Yes.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994 1
Andrews: Okay. So there'd be another opportunity even if we vote, not in the way you ,
would prefer us to vote if it's your... Any more discussion?
Lash moved, Meger seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission would '
recommend to allow snowmobiling as the only motorized activity on the Southwest
Regional LRT trail with the conditions that the snowmobile club would sign the trail, '
there would be enforcement of the speed limit and curfew and that the Park and
Recreation Commission would review this item yearly. The motion was tied with a 3 to
3 vote. The motion failed. '
Andrews: Does that mean it carries Todd, or fails? Motion fails. Okay, so that motion '
failed. Can we have another motion? I think it probably could split here, which would be no
recommendation at all, which is acceptable. I guess I'll make a motion that motorized
vehicles be prohibited for the trail. Is there a second to that?
Manders: I'll second that.
Andrews: Any discussion to that? ,
Andrews moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission would '
recommend to prohibit snowmobiling on the Southwest Regional LRT trail. The motion
was tied with a 3 to 3 vote. The motion failed.
Andrews: Okay, I guess then I'll say it right now. We have no recommendation to be made. '
We'll have to pass this up to the Council and say that the Park Board is split. We're not
going to get any farther tonight by beating this to death so, thank you. I
LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: -PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FOR
PROPERTIES ZONED RSF TO PUD (46.56 ACRES): PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR 74 '
LOTS OF MIXED HIGH DENSITY (186 DWELLING UNITS). 15 SINGLE FAMILY
LOTS AND AN OUTLOT WHICH WILL CONTAIN DWELLING UNITS: AND
VACATION OF A PORTION OF WEST 86TH STREET. THE PROPERTY IS '
LOCATED EAST OF HIGHWAY 101 AT WEST 86TH STREET, MISSION HILLS,
TANDEM PROPERTIES.
Todd Hoffman resented the staff report on this item. '
P t'eP
Andrews: Mr. Putnam, if you'd like to address the commission. Again I would ask, and I'm '
sure you will, keep your remarks brief.
49
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - June 28, 1994
' Dick Putnam: Well I guess at this point Mr. Chairman, I would ask, let me just quickly...
There was one other issue that was discussed at the last meeting, which was almost a year
ago. Hopefully you can all see- this. This is the proposed TH 212 corridor. Here's the
' proposed park on the south end of Rice Marsh Lake with TH 212 to the south. And our
project sits in here just to the east of TH 101 and the TH 212 freeway on the south. Another
area that was discussed was this parcel, or actually two parcels south of the extension of 86th.
It's currently an open field with kind of gently rolling and there's a little drainageway that
goes through here and then down into lake and a marsh that we share on our property. The
discussion was whether or not that property if combined with the wooded portion makes
' sense as a future park, particularly with the highway department purchasing this land as it
conceivably could purchase it all the way up so they didn't have to sever the Klingelhutz
' property to the south. And that was a discussion that the city was going to look at, whether
or not they would do it. Whether the highway department would be doing it to provide some
green field recreation space. I'll let Todd respond to that. I don't think there's any definite
' answer that we have because TH 212 is, lord knows what's going to happen with it. That
was one of the issues that was discussed in dealing with the open play field space. This is a
plan that we discussed with the City Council last night. Basically a couple things to respond
' to the staff's concerns relative to the amount of playfield space or open space. What we
looked at is a temporary pond that's being built here that's about a half acre in size that will
eventually go away and that water will be taken down to a major pond the city's going to be
' building along TH 101. Also an area right through here that's about a .8 of an acre adjacent
to the wetland in the southeast corner of the site that has a hill and then some open field
space on the top and a nice pretty area along the marsh. Also there's a field space here,
' about a .4 of an acre of so that we had proposed as berming but we'll develop this just a
grass field area at this point with plantings around the edge as well as a developed todot. We
have a concrete sidewalk that runs on Street A, north/south. There's a trail system along the
' south side of the street. Whether it's bituminous or concrete, I guess that's your choice or the
city's. We'll be doing an asphalt trail system here as opposed to wood chip and we'll also do
either limestone or wood chip trail system here and connecting in a loop. It also will connect
' to this site as it turns into a park. I guess with that Mr. Chairman I'd be happy to answer any
questions. The plan is really the same as what was proposed previously with the addition of
those areas.
' Andrews: Any comments?
' Lash: I would like to hear the comments from the City Council last night.
' Hoffman: On behalf of both the Planning Commission who reviewed this at the preliminary
stage, the preliminary plat and the City Council, it would be fair to say that they were
'
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WILLIAM E. HARDER Lic. #41166
Attorney and Counselor at Law 612/496 -0770 or
1025 Hesse Farm Road 612/370 -6900
Chaska, MN 55318 612/370 -6412 Fax
I October 6, 1994
' Mr. Don Chmiel
Mayor of Chanhassen
' and
' Individual Members of the City Council
690 Coulter Drive
' P.O. Box 147
Chanhassan, MN 55317
' Gentlemen:
I am writing to express my concern about a recommendation from the City's Park and
Recreation Commission (on 4 to 3 vote) to allow the Southwest Regional Light Rail Transit
route to be used as a snowmobile trail.
'
Lam a Chanhassen homeowner whose south property line is contiguous to the above -
referenced trail. One of the primary reasons for me moving from lakeshore property on Lake
Minnetonka was to get away from the noise and lack of civility of many water skiers in the
' warm weather and snowmobilers in winter who were constantly violating the rules laid down
by the Water Patrol and other governing bodies for Lake Minnetonka, and relocate where
tranquility was the state of affairs. The property I bought is subject to a restrictive covenant
that prohibits recreational operation of snowmobiles in the Hesse Farm area, and I was
advised that the right of way on my south border was for a walkway and bicycle and cross -
country skiing use only.
' I strongly object to the City granting any right to use this trail for other than what it was
originally granted. It will dramatically change the character of the property I have and
t introduce activity that we find both objectionable and dangerous.
Snowmobile vehicles are by their very nature extremely noisy and environmentally noxious. I
' will assume, without any particular evidence, that the Southwest Metro Trail Association is an
organization that is honorable and disciplined. Having said that, it would be impossible to
' limit and regulate snowmobile use to only such individuals. Attempting to regulate
' snowmobile use by regulation serves no real purpose other than allowing the City to say it has
the regulations on its books -- laws do not prevent violations, as evidenced by the thousands
' of drunken driving violations annually occurring in the State of Minnesota.
Allowing snowmobiling on the trail will dramatically change the character of the use of the
' trail -- it will, in most likelihood, basically preempt its use, driving most of the walking and
cross - country skiing out of the picture. In addition, it will increase the City's liability for
accidents occurring on the trail by legally introducing into its confines an inherently
' dangerous motorized vehicle. Mixing snowmobiles with walkers and cross - country skiers is
an invitation to disaster!
' I earnestly -ask the Mayor and City Council to reject the recommendation made by the Park
and Recreation Commission to open this trail to snowmobile use.
�.� I
I Veq truly
� I
� I
� I
Mweh \snowmobile.ltr
William E.
'
WEH:rf
� I
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� I
Mweh \snowmobile.ltr
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0
October 3, 1994
City Council of Chanhassen
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Council Members:
�
-;1"
We just heard over the weekend that the Park and Recreation Council has passed an ordinance for Snow
Mobiles to be on the new trail in Chanhassen that crosses Bluff Creek Drive and Hwy 101. Needless
to say, we were very surprised since we have never received any written mailings that there was any
chance of that happening.
The signs all say "No motorized vehicles ". How can they even consider such a thing. As a neighbor
and homeowner near that area, I walk that trail about 3-4 times a week and always meet families with
children walking or biking. Not even considering the noise factor, I think it would be very dangerous
having snow mobilers and bikers and hikers and skiers and snow showers all on the same trail. I
definitely think that the trail should continue to be a non - motorized trail. I myself am very cautious about
crossing at Hwy 101 as the traffic comes by very fast. I can't imagine a group of snow mobiles (and
they are always in groups) crossing that road or Bluff Creek Drive either. These are my own personal
thoughts.
As business owners in that area, we plead that you not allow this to happen. The noise level is a BIG
issue as the people staying at our Inn usually retire early and enjoy getting up early to walk the trails
before breakfast. This has become a big asset for our marketing the Bluff Creek Inn and I would hate
to see snow mobilers on the trail. The noise is bad enough from the huge gravel trucks that go up Bluff
Creek Drive at 7:00 am on Saturday morning, sometimes 6 in a row.
Please, we are counting on the Council to say "NO" to this when it comes before the Council. It would
also be nice to know when that particular meeting happens so we as homeowners and business owners
can be there.
Sincerely,
Anne & Gary Delaney
Owners /Innkeepers
Bluff Creek Inn
1161 Bluff Creek Drive
Chaska, MN 55318
HENNEPIN COUNTY REGIONAL RAILROAD AUTHORITY
Southwest Street Level Government Center
Minneapolis, MN 55487 -0016
Phone: (612) 348-9260
FAX: (612) 348 -9710
July 28, 1994
Mr. Todd Hoffman
Park Director
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Re: Permit Agreement Al2304
Parcel 73 -33051
Dear Mr. Hoffman:
Enclosed is your fully executed copy of the above - referenced permit agreement. If you have
any questions regarding this agreement, please call me at 348 -8089.
Sincerely
Larry L. O ell
Right of Way and Special Projects
LLO /sw
Enclosure
RECEIVED
JUL 2 9 1994
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
Sandra Hilary Peter McLaughlin Mike Opat Randy Johnson Mark Andrew John Keefe Emily Anne Staples
Chair Vice Chair Treasurer Secretary
Agreement No. 1
pami 7--S
PERMIT AGREEMENT
THIS AGREEMENT, entered into by and between the HENNEPIN COUNTY
It
REGIONAL RAIL AUTHORITY, a Minnesota political subdivision ( "Permittor ") and
the CITY OF CHANHASSEN, a Minnesota municipal corporation ( "Permittee ").
IN CONSIDERATION OF THE COVENANTS BY AND
BETWEEN THE ,
PARTIES, IT IS HEREBY AGREED: '
1. PREMISES. Permittor hereby agrees to grant certain rights and benefits t
to Permittee hereinafter described with regard to that certain real property located in
r Counties, Minnesota
Hennepin and Carve Cou ti , described as follows:
The center 16 feet generally conforming to the track bed of ,
all that part of the HCRRA right -of -way, formerly the
Chicago and NorthWestern Transportation Company's right -
of -way from Bluff Creek Drive in the City of Chanhassen
southwesterly to Mile Post 32 in Chaska westerly of U.S.
Highway 212 in Carver County. '
The said real estate shall be hereinafter described as the "Premises."
2. USES. The Premises shall be for the use of Permittee, its agents, officers,
employees, subpermittees, and invitees for trail purposes only, including but not limited '
to pedestrian use, cross country skiing, and the riding of horses, bicycles, and other
vehicles, and for all uses and requirements necessary to the enjoyment of the Premises
for said uses. Permittee shall be granted temporary use of adjacent lands controlled by
Permittor as reasonably required for construction and maintenance of the Premises. ,
RECEIVED
in 18 1994
15794 CITY OF CHANHASSENi
06/17/94
3. TERM. The term of this permit shall be for an indefinite period,
commencing on the date of Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority ( "HCRRA ")
approval until termination in accordance with paragraph 4.
4. TERMINATION. Either party may at any time terminate this permit by
' giving thirty (30) days' written notice of its intention to do so. Such notice may be served
upon the Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority by delivering a copy thereof to the
' Executive Director of the rinci al office in the Hennepin County Government Center
P P P tY
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55487 or by depositing the same in the United States Post Office
' directed to the Executive Director of the principal office. Such notice may be served on
the City of Chanhassen by delivering a copy thereof to its City Manager at the
Chanhassen Ci t Hall, 690 Coulter Drive, Box 147, Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317.
Except as provided herein, this agreement may not be terminated or revoked by either
' party hereto.
5. TEMPORARY NATURE OF USE. Permittee acknowledges that the
Premises was acquired by Permittor specifically and solely for the purpose of constructing
' a light rail transit system or other permitted transportation uses and its associated facilities
and that it is Permittor's intention to allow Permittee to use the Premises only until it is
needed for that purpose. Nothing in this permit shall be deemed to evidence any change
by Permittor of its intended use of the Premises for light rail transit purposes or other
permitted transportation uses. Rather, Permittor has agreed to the terms of this permit to
provide a temporary use for the Premises during the time required for further planning
and development of the light rail transit system or other permitted transportation uses.
' 15794
08/17/94 2
6. RIGHTS UPON TERMINATION. On the expiration of thirty (30) days
after such service of said notice, this permit and all rights hereunder shall thereupon
h '
terminate and be at an end, saving and excepting such rights as may have accrued to
either party hereunder prior to such termination. Permittee shall without further notice '
or demand, deliver possession of the Premises to the Permittor at the expiration of said '
thirty (30) days and shall before the expiration of said thirty (30) days, remove all
'1 in and property laced upon the Premises which it may desire to have the ri to '
buildings gs a p perty p p y
remove. If Permittee fails to remove buildings and property, its right shall, at the option
of the Permittor, cease and Permittee's interest thereto shall be forfeited and at the same I
time shall belong to Permittor, or in such case, if the Permittor shall elect, it may, at any
time after the expiration of said period of thin (30) days, tear down and /or remove any ,
xP Pe Y
or all such buildings and property at the expense of Permittee without any liability for ,
damages thereof in any respect whatsoever and Permittee shall thereupon promptly
reimburse Permittor for all expenses incurred by it in doing so.
7. RENT. Upon any such termination of this permit, rent shall be paid by the '
Permittee to the date of termination fixed by said notice at the rate of $1.00 per year. '
8. OTHER USERS. The HCRRA shall assume responsibility for securing
such permissions as may be required from the Minnesota Department of Transportation
in connection with this permit. In addition, Permittor shall use its best efforts to terminate ,
or amend any permits or leases, or other written permission to the Premises which may
'
previously have been extended to others by Permittor and which conflict with this permit.
15794 3
011/17/94
11
1
9. SUBPERNUTS. Permittee shall have the right to grant permits to
subpermittees on the same terms and conditions and for the same uses as are contained
in this rmit. The Permittor shall have the right to review and approve said sub permits,
Pe PP Pe
' but such approval shall not be unreasonably withheld. Said subpermits may provide for
' the survival of such subpermits by consent of Permittor in the event of any failure to
perform on the part of Permittee.
10. SIGNAGE. Permittee shall maintain si na e, including kiosks, on the
g g
Premises identifying the Premises as a temporary trail corridor of the City of Chanhassen.
Any such signage must receive the prior approval of Permittor and also identify the
HCRRA as the owner of the corridor and that the corridor is reserved for light rail transit
or other future transportation uses.
' 11. NUISANCE. Permittee shall not permit the existence of any nuisance on
' said Premises. Permittee at all times shall keep said Premises clean and shall comply with
all laws, ordinances, and regulations respecting Permittee's business and use and
occupation of said Premises. Permittee, at its sole cost, shall make any and all
improvements, alterations, repairs and additions, and install all appliances required on
' said Premises by or under any such regulations, ordinances, or laws. No bills, posters,
or advertising matter of any kind shall be posted on said Premises provided, however,
' that Permittee may post on appropriate structures, informational materials relating to the
trail.
12. UTILITIES, TITLE. Permittee accepts said Premises subject to the right
of any person, firm, or corporation, including the Permittor inn and to any existing
' 15794
06/17/84 4
telephone, telegraph and /or other wires, poles, and facilities of any kind whatsoever, I.
whether or not of record, and should it at any time become necessary because of
' Premises relocate an of said poles, wires or facilities b
Permittee 's use of the P e ses to r e c e y p y reason
of this permit, Permittee shall bear and pay the cost of so doing. ,
Permittee also accepts said Premises subject to any want or failure at any ,
time of Permittor's title to said Premises of any part thereof and Permittee shall assume
any g Y damages sustained b Permittee in connection therewith. Permittee also accepts such '
Premises subject to rights of any party, including Permittor, in and to any existing '
roadways and easements. Permittee agrees to provide to Permittor or other tenants of I
Permittor access over and through the Premises on these roadways and easements should
such access be deemed necessary by Permittor. Permittee accepts said Premises subject '
to the right of Permittor, its employees, agents, and contractors to walk upon said '
Premises to repair adjacent property and the right of Permittor, its employees, agents, and I
contractors to temporarily place equipment upon the property at Permittor's own
responsibility and risk for the purpose of maintaining, repairing, or inspecting or '
constructing upon Permittor's adjacent property. '
13. MEII 'MCATION. Permittee shall defend, indemnify, and hold
harmless Permittor, its commissioners, officers, agents, and employees from any liability,
claims, demands, personal injury, costs, judgments, or expenses, including reasonable '
attorney's fees, resulting from directly or indirectly from an act or omission of Permittee,
its agents, employees, customers, invitees, subpermittees, or other occupiers of the
Premises.
15M ,
Oa/1 7/94 5
� .1
Permittor shall not be liable to Permittee or those claiming by, through, or
under Permittee for any injury, death, or property damage occurring in, on, or about the
' Premises based upon the construction operation, or maintenance of the Premises b
p Pe Y
' Permittee or any subpermittee, nor for the loss or damage by reason of the present or
' future condition of repair of the Premises, or for the loss or damage arising from the acts
or omissions of Permittee, its agents, employees, customers, invitees, subpermittees, or
' other occupiers of the Premises.
' 14. INSURANCE. Permittee further agrees that if in any case the release and
' indemnity provided in this section shall not be valid, Permittor shall have the full benefit
of any insurance effected by the Permittee upon the property injured, destroyed, or
damaged and /or against the hazard involved; and Permittee agrees that any and all such
' insurance shall be so written that the insurer shall have no claim or recourse of any land
' whatsoever against Permittor in connection therewith.
15. WASTE. Permittee, in consideration of the permitting of the said
Premises, as herein provided, hereby covenants and agrees to pay the rent therefor
' promptly, as above provided, and fully to abide by and perform all and singular the
conditions, covenants, and agreements herein contained and to be observed and performed
by said Permittee and to yield up said Premises unto the Permittor at the expiration or
termination of this permit agreement in as good conditions as when entered upon.
' 16. QUIET ENJOYMENT. Permittor has the right and authority to enter into
this agreement and if Permittee pays the rent required hereby and otherwise performs the
terms hereof to be performed by Permittee, Permittee shall, during the term hereof, be
15794
06/17/84 6
D
entitled to quiet enjoyment and possession of the Premises subject to the termination ,.
provisions hereof. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Permittee acknowledges that the rights
provided to it by virtue of the permit are subject to the provisions of paragraph 12.
17. WAIVER. No receipt of money by Permittor from Permittee after any ,
default by Permittee or after the expiration of this permit or after the service of any I
notice or after the commencement of any suit or after final judgment for possession of
'
said Premises, shall waive such default or reinstate, continue, or extend the term o f this
permit or affect any such notice or suit, as the case may be. No waiver of any default of '
Permittee shall be implied from omission by Permittor to take any action on account of '
such default, and no express waiver shall affect any default other than the default
specified in t h e express ress x waiver and that only or the time and to the extent therein stated. '
y
18. BREACH. It is further agreed between the parties hereto, that if the said '
Permittee shall breach or make default in any of the conditions, covenants, or agreements I
of this permit, which breach or default shall continue for fifteen (15) days after
Permittee's receipt of written notice from Permittor, then it shall be lawful for the '
Permittor, then or at any time thereafter, to declare this permit ended, and to reenter said '
Premises and take possession thereof, with or without process of law, and to use any I
reasonable or necessary lawful force for regaining possession; whereupon the rights and
obligations of the parties shall be the same as above specified in the case of termination '
g
at the end of thirty (30) days' notice; and it is hereby further agreed and provided that '
any waiver at any time of a breach of any condition, covenant, or agreement of this '
permit shall extend only to the particular breach so waived and shall, in no manner,
ISM 7
Oa /1 7/94
' impair or affect the existence of such condition, covenant, or agreements, or the right of
Permittor thereafter to avail itself of same and any subsequent breach thereof. In the
' event Permittor has to take action for repossession of said p Permittee, its assi
P P PertY� g
' or heirs shall be liable for reasonable attorney's fees incurred by Permittor.
19. ASSIGNMENT. The benefits and obligations of this permit shall extend
to and shall bind the heirs, administrators, executors, lessees, successors, or assigns of
' the arties hereto, but no interest in this permit shall be assigned, nor said Premises or
P
' any part thereof shall be subpermitted, used, or occupied by any party other than the
' Permittee unless specifically stated herein. Permittor reserves the right to review and
revise the rental application to this permit upon any change in the status of this permit,
the Permittee, or person occupying in the Premises during the term of this permit or any
renewal thereof.
20. IlVIPROVEMENTS. Permittee shall be responsible for the construction of
all improvements necessary to the maintenance of a trail corridor on the Premises and the
maintenance of said trail corridor. Permittee shall also be responsible for the construction
' of all bridges and crossings deemed necessary for Permittee to maintain the trail corridor.
' Construction plans, if any, shall be submitted to the Permittor for review and comment.
Permittor reserves the right to reject any plans for construction proposed by Permittee on
' the grounds, in Permittor's sole discretion, that said plans are incompatible with hits
future use of the Premises.
21. LAW ENFORCEMENT. Permittee shall have primary responsibility for
the promulgation of rules, regulations, and ordinances relating to the Premises. The
1 15794
08/17/84 p 0
parties hereto recognize that municipal ordinances and law enforcement may also be
involved in regulating the Premises. Permittee agrees to use its best efforts to coordinate
'
regulation and law enforcement of the Premises with the sev e ral municipalities in which
the Premises lie.
22. ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS. Permittee shall not create or permit '
any condition of the Premises that could present a threat to human health or to the
n Permittee shall bear the expense of all practices or work '
environment. a pe p work, or p
remedial, which may be required because of any conditions of the Premises introduced ,
by Permittee, subpermittees, or invitees during Permittee's period of use, including I
conditions introduced by Permittee which affect other lands. Permittee expressly agrees
that the obligations it hereby assumes shall survive cancellation of this permit. Permittee '
g Y
agrees that statutory limitation periods on actions to enforce these obligations shall not '
be deemed to commence until Permittor discovers any such health or environmental I
impairment, and Permittee hereby knowingly and voluntarily waives the benefits of any
shorter limitation period. '
Permittor shall have the right, but not the duty, to enter upon the Premises '
from time to
time
as set
forth
below to inspect the Premises for environmental
contamination
and
in the
course
thereof to conduct soil and groundwater testing.
Permittor may enter the premises during regular business hours of Permittee without prior ■
notice, and may enter the Premises during periods other than regular business hours
either with prior written consent of Permittee or without if Permittor reasonably believes
that an emergency exists on the Premises. Permittor shall conduct any such inspections
15794
00/17/94 9
or testing so as to minimize interference with Permittee's operations. Permittor's entry
onto the Premises pursuant to this paragraph shall not relieve the Permittee's obligation
to pay rent under this permit.
23. COMPLIANCE WITH LAWS, ORDINANCES, AND RULES.
Permittee agrees to comply with all laws, ordinances, and regulations of federal, state,
municipal, and local government agencies as they apply to use of the Premises.
24. CONDITION OF PREMISES INSPECTION. Permittee accepts the
Premises in an "AS IS CONDITION" with no express or implied representations or
warranties by Permittor as to the physical condition or fitness or suitability for any
particular purpose, express or implied. Permittee is responsible for and has had ample
opportunity to inspect the Premises, is familiar with the same, and has determined to its
satisfaction the fitness of the Premises for its intended use.
15794
06/17/94 10
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have signed this permit agreement
as of , 1994.
Upon proper execution, this _
agreement will be legally
valid and binding.
Assistant C ty Attorney
gog-ef N. Knutson
Chanhassen City Attorney
Date: ,J
Approved as to executi
w �
/
Assistant C 6nty Attorney
Date: - -9-�
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
AN
15794
08/17/84 11
HENNEPIN COUNTY REGIONAL
RAILROAD AUTHORITY
Don Ashworth, City Manager
.1
C�
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE: March 16, 1994
SUBJ: Visitor Presentation, Southern Chanhassen Railroad Corridor, LeRoy Biteler
I have had the opportunity to meet with Mr. l
We discussed the steps which need to be tal
recall, the Hennepin County Regional Railroa
way from Hopkins to its intersection with
Hennepin Parks holds an agreement with the
trail (aggregate surface) from Hopkins to Blufi
Biteler's letter, Hennepin Parks is in the pr(
corridor.
envy Biteler and Mr. Mike Farkas in this regard.
,ri to address this issue. As commissioners will
i Authority ( HCRRA) owns the railroad right -of-
Eghway 212 at the Chanhassen/Chaska border.
HCRRA to construct and maintain a recreational
Creek Drive in Chanhassen. As referenced in Mr.
-ess of establishing an operations policy for the
Hennepin Parks has elected to ask the local units of government to discuss which modes of
' transportation are appropriate for the corridor. We would; then forward our findings to their
board, who will establish the final operations policy. From Bluff Creek Drive westward to
Highway 212, it will be necessary to work directly with the'HCRRA.
Mr. Biteler will be in attendance - at your.Tuesday night meeting to discuss this issue with you.
How you would like to proceed from here„ is at the discretion of , the commission.
If the commission elects to place this issue on a future agenda, staff will inform other trail user
groups and adjoining land owners of your.J umentions to formally discuss the use of this public
i corridor.
PC: Ken Stevens, HCRRA
Del Miller, Hennepin Parks
Mike Liddecoat, Carver County
' Tom Redman, City of Chaska
Bob Lambert, City of Eden Prairie
MEMORANDUM
March 14, 1994 '
City of Chanhassen
Park & Recreation Dept. '
690 Coulter Dr.
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen Mn. 55317
RE: Rails to Trails (Snowmobile Trails) '
Park & Rec. % Todd Hofman
'
On behalf of the Southwest Trail System the Chanhassen Snowmobilers
would like to express our interest in the opportunity to be a user
of the abandon railroad between Chanhassen and Chaska. We would
'
like to request permission to allow the abandon railroad between
Chanhassen and Chaska to be used as a snowmobile trail during the
winter months. The Southwest Trails would maintain this trail as
we do the rest of the Southwest Trail System. We would like to
,
access the trail at Lake Riley, then travel southwest to connect up
to the trail system in Chaska, which also allows us access to the
State Trail System in the river bottom area.
'
We have spoken to Del Miller of Hennipen County Parks regarding our
interest of using this as a snowmobile trail, he was unaware of
this interest. He told us that we must first get approval from the
'
appropriate cities involved, then it would be likely we would get
the parks approval. He also requested we talk to the Railroad
authority for the trail section from bluff creek to Chaska. We
'
spoke to Ken Stevens of the Railroad authority regarding this
issue. He commented that if we get approval through the chain of
authority in the order described, it would most likely meet the
'
railroad authorities approval.
You might asking why do we want to use this trail ?
There are various reasons, besides being very scenic.
'
I. This would eliminate the trail going south of Lyman Boulevard
on highway 17 to Chaska. Chaska must reroute for the 1995
'
season due to development along highway 17. This is an
excellent solution to that reroute.
2. This trail creates minimal residential disturbance.
i
3. This would be a trail that would not need to be rerouted
unless Light Rail is in our near future.
,
4. Permanent signage could be installed
'
5. Safer than a road ditch line.
--
it
J
t
11
Enclosed is a map showing the area of rail trail we would like to
use. We will be attending any necessary meetings to answer any
questions and concerns. If you would like to call us with
additional questions, call LeRoy Biteler at 474 -7590.
Thank you
LeRoy Biteler
Past President of Chanhassen Snowmobilers
Member of Southwest Trails
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CAR SOUTHWEST TRAILS
•1 `� =" 4 " ASSOCIATION
1
sovTFnn► v j WELCOMES YOU
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' CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION,
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 22, 1994
Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
' MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Ron Roeser, Jim Manders, Jan Lash, Jane Meger,
and Fred Berg
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
' STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; and Dawn Lemme, Program
Specialist
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg oved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of
g PP
February 22, 1994 as amended by Jan Lash on page 14 to the word raffle to rappala. All
' voted in favor and the motion carried.
1 VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
LEROY BITELER, CHANHASSEN SNOWMOBILERS, FUTURE MODES_ OF
TRANSPORTATION, SOUTHERN CHANHASSEN RAILROAD CORRIDOR,
LeRoy Biteler: Thank you. My name is LeRoy Biteler. I am a member of the Southwest
' Trail System and a member of the Chanhassen Snowmobilers and basically my objective, do I
have to stand in front of this? ...My objective is to discuss with you the abandoned railroad
tracks that run between Chanhassen and Chaska to be allowed as a snowmobile trail and I
' believe most of you received what Todd sent you in the mail. Have you had opportunity to
read that? Okay. Just a little bit about the trail system and myself I guess. I have been in
Chanhassen for 10 years and been a member of the Snowmobile Club for the past 10 years
and have been either President or Vice President about 5 out of those 10 years so I do have
some pretty good knowledge and background as to what's been going on in Chanhassen
through those years. And the gentleman sitting here is Mike Farkas and he's done a lot of
' the trail work along with myself. Our objective, our main objective is to eliminate, as I
mentioned in the letter, some of the trail running south on Highway 17. Get out of the ,
residentially type area and onto an area such as the railroad bed that is a better thoroughfare
and outlet to the Chaska trail system and to the State trail system in the river bottom area
which gets us further out into the residential communities. And I guess I would just like to
answer any questions that you guys might have. You certainly understand where our trail
would go and start and stop.
1
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 22, 1994
'
Andrews: You're looking for our support for this concept to take it to Hennepin County or
who would be the responsible authority here?
,
LeRoy Biteler: We have talked to the Hennepin Parks and the Railroad Authority and asked
them of their opinion, if they would allow us to use this trail system during the winter months
and they said, first of all our procedure is that you must go to the individual cities and get
'
permission from them and then come to us and then, if the City approves it, chances are
down the rest of the road, the Park Authority and the Railroad Authority would approve it.
Mike Farkas has had personal communication with those people by telephone.
'
Lash: LeRoy, can you get into the access and...
'
LeRoy Biteler: Yeah. I don't see Lake Riley on here. That's kind of...oh okay.
Hoffman: This is a trail, comprehensive trail map. Not snowmobile trail maps...
'
Mike Farkas: ...here we are right here. Okay, this railroad bed comes right along the edge
of Lake Riley where you would access it. It's probably right about in this area right here,
,
which is just over the border.
Roeser: You can go right up from the lake onto the track can't you?
'
Mike Farkas: Right. It's basically a little embankment but we can go right up from the ice
to the track and then down the track which is really nice. And then we can access it, we
'
have a property owner over here that we're trying to connect up with right now to access
from there and then come down like this off of this, what road is that? Lyman Boulevard,
yeah. And that's where we would access onto the lake and then up onto the railroad bed and
that would take us, that would veer around the city as much as possible.
bed
'
LeRoy Biteler: And this takes up, when it connects up to Chaska. Is this railroad right
there ... Okay, this connects to Chaska's trail system right down in here someplace.
Roeser: Okay, then you can pick up on the trail by the Courthouse and go east towards
Shakopee?
LeRoy Biteler: Yeah. And that gets us into the river bottom. It gets us off of CR 17, which
Chaska has got to reroute next year because it's just building up along CR 17 tremendously
and the same thing's going to happen in Chanhassen.
.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 22, 1994
.1
L Mike Farkas: And that connects up with the state trail down there so it still gives them
access and then they're going to have an access I think out of Chaska. Which they're going
out around Chaska too. I think that's what their plans are.
' Andrews: I have a couple questions and that is, do we have a separate area for the
"pedestrian" or cross country skier or hiker? Traffic that would be separate from the
snowmobiles? Would they be sharing the same path in this situation?
Hoffman: The width up there varies but essentially that would be a shared use situation.
' Andrews: One of m concerns would be that being that's a flat, relatively flat. It was graded
Y g t+ Y �
' that way for the railroad, I would think there would be difficulty with speed. I think because
it's almost an ideal track for high speed that it's flat and probably level, I would think that a
lot of people would find it real interesting to see how fast their snowmobiles would go. I
guess I'm concerned if there is pedestrian traffic, those people would be in danger.
Mike Farkas: That's a possibility but what I talked to Del Miller about, about this type of
railroad bed. Is most of your cross country skiers won't go on it because they're rather go on
a looping type of cross country trail. We had discussed that with him where there is a
possibility there would be some cross country skiers on it but most of them do like a looping
trail because this trail will basically take them, it's a one way shot out. Straight out and back
where they more than likely would like the looping type trails because we did discuss that.
That was Del Miller with the Hennepin Parks.
LeRoy Biteler: You also have frequent intersections crossing TH 101 inbetween each area
there and this trail, as in other areas, we have a railroad bed that takes us from Highway 7
into Shorewood. From Highway 7 into Victoria. That's also an abandoned railroad bed that
we've used as a snowmobile trail for many years. We see probably more walkers on there
than I have been cross country skiers. But not to say that there's any difference between
' those two but the skiers don't seem to be using that trail. I don't recall seeing a skier on
there. It's not saying that they're not going to be.
' Mike Farkas: I've seen one or two.
LeRoy Biteler: I've seen people out walking their dogs and a few joggers on the trail. Not
' an abundance like we would expect of course during the spring fever times...
Lash: On the top of the map that we have on our literature that we received it's got, and I'm
assuming that you're going to want to go through Minnetonka and the Luce Line, is that what
it's called?
3
t
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 22, 1994
Roeser: No. Luce Line's way over by Wayzata.
Lash: Okay, what this anyway, it's got an 11:00 p.m. curfew, 20 mph maximum speeds.
LeRoy Biteler: That's through Shorewood. I was going to bring that up.
Lash: Are you proposing something like that?
LeRoy Biteler: Not at this time. Shorewood has proposed that due to all the, it really goes
through a large residential housing area there and that's why they had proposed that and done
that. And we have patrolled that and issued citations and done ticketing and things like that
and that's something that could certainly be done out here.
Meger: One of the reasons that you listed for wanting to use this trail is it's safer than road
ditch line. If you're trying to access the same area now, how much of the trail that you
would be using would you have to go on a road ditch currently? So on Highway 17, how
long of that is.
LeRoy Biteler: Oh I don't know. How far is it from Lyman Boulevard, boy let's see.
Mike Farkas: Down to Chaska.
LeRoy Biteler: Down to Chaska you know.
Hoffman: 2 1/2 miles.
LeRoy Biteler: 2 1/2 - 3 miles.
Roeser: And then you have to cross TH 212 right, down there?
LeRoy Biteler: Right. Right at the edge of town.
Lash: And how would people access this? Do they have to trailer to Lake Lucy? Or to
Lake Riley?
LeRoy Biteler: We would be trying to get access down, we go up to, we go south on CR 17
to Lyman Blvd and go, take a left which is what, back east again? I have a hard time
reading a map. Go east, go straight east until you hit the lake. Klingelhutz, John Klingelhutz
owns some property there. We have talked to Brian Klingelhutz. We have not been able to
reach John Klingelhutz yet. But that would be our access from his property onto the lake.
4
[I
� -1
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 22, 1994
Running the ditch line down Lyman Blvd.
Hoffman: The route they currently follow goes down TH 101 to Lyman and goes ... and then
heads on down to Highway 212. What they'd like to do is come down TH 101 and then
head east and then across the lake, to the railroad bed and on down.
Manders: There's also a trail along CR 17 isn't there?
' Mike Farkas: We'd be eliminating that.
Roeser: That's the ditch they ride now.
' Manders: Yeah, that ditch out to TH 5. From Lyman to TH 5.
Mike Farkas: From Lyman we'd still need to use that part.
Manders: That's what I'm talking about...
Lash: So Y ou're starting at Lake Ann or whatever?
' Mike Farkas: Yeah, Lake Ann. We use that as a drop site for the people that commute in
from Eden Prairie or Bloomington. If we get people from there dropping trailers...
' Berg: Which part on CR 17 would you be eliminating?
' Mike Farkas: A part from Lyman Boulevard down to TH 212.
Lash: So mostly in Chaska?
' Mike Farkas: Yeah, mainly in Chaska ... and I don't know if it makes sense to try and
eliminate as much of.
Roeser: It seems a lot safer to me.
' Berg: Dangerous stretch at night when you're driving on the road with snowmobilers.
LeRoy Biteler: It's even dangerous for the automobile driver.
1 Berg: That's what I mean.
5
J
I
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 22, 1994
LeRoy Biteler: Yeah, with their lights shining through.
Berg: Very disconcerting to have lights coming at you from three different directions at the
same time on a narrow road that's dark.
LeRoy Biteler: Yeah. This is a better option for us to reroute and get to an area that you
don't have automobile traffic. We don't have...
Lash: How about the residential, how many residences is this going to impact?
LeRoy Biteler: On the railroad bed it impacts what I can see, one or two.
Andrews: Is there anybody here in the audience, other than you two gentlemen that wishes to
speak about this? Okay.
Hoffman: I can provide that since the time of writing the memorandum I have spoken with
representatives from Eden Prairie and Chaska in this regard. Again, to update the
commission. From the point at the city of Chanhassen border with Eden Prairie down to
Bluff Creek Drive, we would be working with Hennepin Parks as the governing authority.
Their Board of Directors. From that point, at Bluff Creek where their agreement with the
Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority ceases to the Chaska border down in here. The
Chaska border is actually right here north of Highway 212. You would have to work with
the Hennepin County Rail Authority. Tom Redman, Director of Park and Recreation in
Chaska called this morning and they're going through some discussions on snowmobiling in
their city and they would like to see a trail continuation at this point but he cannot guarantee
that at this point. They'll be discussing that in June or July of this year. Eden Prairie we
thought perhaps that they would allow trail...up in Eden Prairie. They have done that in the
past so some people can get on this trail system but it doesn't look like they're going to allow
snowmobiling from Eden Prairie east. So then we would have to make some type of an
agreement for the short segment of trail from Lake Riley, which is in Eden Prairie, down to
the Chanhassen border. They said they'd certainly work with us in that regard if the
Commission chose to do that.
Andrews: Is anybody prepared to make a motion to take some action here?
Lash: I make a motion that we place this issue on a future agenda so that it can be open for
public discussion.
Andrews: Is there a second to that motion?
C�
r
1
1
' Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 22, 1994
I Manders: I'll second that.
' Andrews: Any further discussion?
Lash moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission place the
issue of snowmobile trails on the Southern Chanhassen Railroad Corridor on a future
agenda for public discussion. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
' Andrews: We will bring it up on a short agenda to get going on this. You need to hear from
us by, what sort of time frame to get back to the County?
LeRoy Biteler: Well it's the, from what I understand it's the Hennepin Authority and Parks
that need to make some decisions sometime this summer and I don't know really what their
deadline is. That's why we got the ball rolling now.
' Andrews: We appreciate that.
LeRoy Biteler: ...talking about next year's winter but that's why we hope to get ahead of the
ballgame and not behind it.
' Mike Farkas: I stumbled upon it when I was in City Hall talking to Todd ... and one thing led
to another and I'm going well geez, now I'm already starting on next year. Then I contacted
Del Miller and then they said that in June they're talking about what they are going to allow.
What they're not going to allow because they have horseback riding people that want to use
it. They have several different, full spectrum of people that want to use it and just
snowmobiling wasn't even brought to their attention at this point. So what we did is brought
' it to their attention. We have an interest in possibly using it. Use of this railroad bed.
' Andrews: Well we'll put it on an agenda. You'll be notified by staff and we'll try to get this
moving forward. Thank you for coming.
7
C STATE OF t
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
t r IN I
Region 6 Trails & Waterways, 1200 Warner Road, St. Paul, MN 5i���v
PHONE N0. (612) 772 -7935
July 15, 1994
,1(j,
Mr. Todd Hoffman
City of Chanhassen
P.O. box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317 ,
Dear Todd:
It has recently ome to attention that Southwest Trails Association and the Chanhassen
Y Y ,
.Snowmobile Club, is working with the City in facilitating use of an abandon railroad grade for
use by snowmobiles. The section they are interested in using extends from Lake Riley in Eden
'
Prairie down to the City of Chaska. Use of this section would connect the Chanhassen's system
of trails to the river bottoms area in Chaska. This in turn would connect them to the MN Valley
State Trail, as well as the Luce Line Trail. The previous connection was lost to the club due to
increasing development pressure.
The Department of Natural Resources works with local snowmobile clubs through the Grant -In- i
Aid Snowmobile program in establishing and maintaining a system of interconnected trails
throughout the state. Local clubs are the ones that do most of the work with this program and
help to ensure its continued success. The trails are well utilized, and serve as an alternative
transportation system.
I would like to offer my encouragement, and sincere hope that the City will cooperate with the
club in facilitating a mutually beneficial outcome to this project. An abandon railroad grade is
the ideal setting for this type of use as it is already set up to function as a transportation system. '
Should you have any further questions regarding the program, or wish to discuss this proposal
further, please feel free to contact me. I appreciate the City's support of snowmobiling in your
area. Thanks again.
Sincerely, ,
Ma,(ZA a
Martha J. Reger '
Area Trails and Waterways Supervisor
AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER I
1
TI IPA 27 '54 11:24 I'1 F • `
City of Chaska
Department of Parks,. Recreation and Art
TO: Todd Hoffman
FROM: Tom Redman
RE: Snowmobile and S.W. Regional Trail
DATE: June 27, 1994
Thanks for sending a copy of your June 28 agenda.
This memo is ust to reiterate that the City of
Chaska has yet to dec de on snowmobiles and trails to
accommodate them in the City of Chaska. The Chaska Park,
Recreation Natural Resources and Art Commission will be
starting discussion at their July 11 meeting.
We would prefer to have trails leading to and from
Chaska to be compatible with neighboring jurisdictions.
Please call me with any questions at 448 -3176 xi.
1861 PARKRIDGE DRIVE, CHASKA, MINNESOTA 55318 / 612 - 448-5633
06 -2b -1994 15:30 612 337 5151 BRIOL S: WILMES P.02
MARK J. BRIOL TELEPHONE (819) 337$410 '
June 28, 1994 TELECOMER (812)337.6161
Mr. James Andrews, Chairman
city of Chanhassen
Park and Recreation Commission
690 Coulter Drive
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Deer Mr. Andrews:
I reside at 10377 Heidi Lane in Chanhassen. I live with my
fiance and our two Children, ages 5 and 1. A good portion of my
backyard abuts the path that the Commission is now contemplating
converting into a potential walking, biking, and /or snowmobile
path.
First, no notice of today's hearing was mailed to me. Another '
resident of the Hesse Farm development was kind enough to leave a
copy of the notice in my mailbox. I have attached a copy of the
notice hereto. However, I understand that at 6:30 on even date '
hereof the commission is conducting a "site visit" at the location
referenced in the attached notice as well as a public hearing. I
would like the Commission to have the following concerns in mind '
when they visit the site and listen to testimony.
1. Environmental Concerns '
It is my understanding that there are unique sulphur
springs in the area surrounding this and that there may
be certain types of wildlife and ecosystems in this area '
that require completion of an Environmental Assessment
worksheet ( "EAW ") before proceeding. I have contacted
the Minnesota Attorney General's office and the '
Environmental Quality Board for purposes of ascertaining
the appropriate requirements. They are presently in the
process of determining whether an EAW must be completed.
If not they have advised that an EAW petition may be '
filed with their office to determine if an EAW is
necessary.
1
�
BRIOL & WILMES
'
A PROFESSIONAL PARTNERSHIP
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
3606 IDS CENTER
'
80 SOUTH EIGHTH STREET
MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 65402.2203
MARK J. BRIOL TELEPHONE (819) 337$410 '
June 28, 1994 TELECOMER (812)337.6161
Mr. James Andrews, Chairman
city of Chanhassen
Park and Recreation Commission
690 Coulter Drive
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Deer Mr. Andrews:
I reside at 10377 Heidi Lane in Chanhassen. I live with my
fiance and our two Children, ages 5 and 1. A good portion of my
backyard abuts the path that the Commission is now contemplating
converting into a potential walking, biking, and /or snowmobile
path.
First, no notice of today's hearing was mailed to me. Another '
resident of the Hesse Farm development was kind enough to leave a
copy of the notice in my mailbox. I have attached a copy of the
notice hereto. However, I understand that at 6:30 on even date '
hereof the commission is conducting a "site visit" at the location
referenced in the attached notice as well as a public hearing. I
would like the Commission to have the following concerns in mind '
when they visit the site and listen to testimony.
1. Environmental Concerns '
It is my understanding that there are unique sulphur
springs in the area surrounding this and that there may
be certain types of wildlife and ecosystems in this area '
that require completion of an Environmental Assessment
worksheet ( "EAW ") before proceeding. I have contacted
the Minnesota Attorney General's office and the '
Environmental Quality Board for purposes of ascertaining
the appropriate requirements. They are presently in the
process of determining whether an EAW must be completed.
If not they have advised that an EAW petition may be '
filed with their office to determine if an EAW is
necessary.
1
CE -28-1994 15:31 612 337 5151 BRIOL & WILMES P.03
I
Mr. James Andrew, Chairman
June 28, 1994
Page 2
1 2. Safety concerns
The Commission should address the following issues before
the path is opened for any uses.
' a. Hunting
' Persons walking on these paths, at night or
otherwise, present others with the opportunity to
cause physical bodily harm which, because of the
' remote nature of the site, could go undetected. I
certainly would not allow my five year old daughter
to walk on the path without assurances of proper
security. What security is being offered to allow
I have, on several occasions, contacted the Carver
County Sheriff's Department because of people
hunting on my land. My land, as I indicated, abuts
up against the old railroad path at issue.
Recently, I found a hunting arrow with the three
razor sharp barbs very near one of my daughter's
play areas. I also found a deer blind on my
property. I called the Carver County Sheriff's
office and reported the incident. On at least one
'
occasion I have also contacted 911 and reported
persons shooting guns on my property. I have also
found numerous spent shot gun shells on the
railroad path itself.
If hunting continues in the area near the walk path
it poses a clear and present danger to anyone
'
walking on those paths.
Accordingly, before determining an appropriate
'
course of action on this matter the Commission
should determine if hunting will continue to be
allowed and what police protection will be offered
to persons using the path.
'
b. Physical Safety
There appears to be very little, if any, regular
'
police patrol protection in the area of the path.
Rarely, if ever, have I seen a patrol car in my
neighborhood and I am concerned that without
'
adequate police protection people on those paths
will not be safe.
' Persons walking on these paths, at night or
otherwise, present others with the opportunity to
cause physical bodily harm which, because of the
' remote nature of the site, could go undetected. I
certainly would not allow my five year old daughter
to walk on the path without assurances of proper
security. What security is being offered to allow
06 -28 -1994 15:31 612 337 5151
Mr. James Andrew, Chairman
June 28, 1994
Page S
women to safely
recently a woman
Bloomington while
that park. Unless
they will be safe
c. fire Hazards
BRIOL & WILMES
R.04
1�
use the path. As you know,
was killed in Moir Park in
walking on one of the paths in
patrons of the path are assured
it should not be opened.
Having additional people using this path causes an
increased fire hazard for all the properties
surrounding the path. On certain occasions the
property, in the summer, has become extremely dry.
The Commission should determine whether there is
adequate firs protection for this area. For
example, what is the response time of whatever fire
station is in the area. Are there adequate fire
hydrants available to allow the fire department to
respond to and to adequately address any fire.
d. Drop Offs
On the path at issue at various points there are
significant drop offs or inclines on each side.
Small children, snowmobilers, bikers or others
Could slip off the path and ,suffer severe personal
injuries. The Commission must consider the issue
of placing appropriate fencing or guardrails on
either side of the path to protect anyone using the
path. It in definitely foreseeable that serious
injury could result if this issue is not addressed.
e. Path Not Wide Enough
on one occasion during the past winter while I was
walking on the railroad path east of Bluff Creek
Road I encountered snowmobiles racing down the
path. Because of the narrowness of the path people
were required to move off the path to allow the
snowmobiles to pass. The snowmobilers came upon a
horse. The path was not wide enough for the horse
and the snowmobile at the same time. At this
,juncture there was no room for the horse to move
off the path. It became very skittish and started
rearing up on several occasions. The horse kept
rearing up and almost bucking the rider off while
the snowmobiles kept tailing the horse. Finally,
the horse came to a place where it could leave the
path and the snowmobiles passed.
�II
' Mr. James Andrew,
June 28, 1994
Page 4
7
L
Chairman
Additionally, I am uncertain whether the path is
wide enough for two snowmobiles to pass each other
or for that matter if it is wide enough to
comfortably allow persons to pass each other on
bikes in the summer or snowmobiles in the winter.
The concerns for public safety and potential
property damage again must be taken into account by
the Commission.
3. Litterina
Several times a year I walk the back railroad path simply
to check the back aide of my property. There are always
old pop cans, beer bottles and shot gun shells lying on
the path which I pick up and dispose of. Some of these
drop offs however are marshy and water filled at the
bottom of the incline. Who is going to be responsible
for the litter problems created by the increased traffic?
Who is going to descend the inclines to retrieve rubbish?
Accordingly, unless the city can assure appropriate safety for
people on this path, can assure that hunting will be restricted,
will have appropriate safety barriers constructed, will have
appropriate fire systems in place and can provide for appropriate
maintenance, the proposed use for the path is inappropriate and
should be left in the same condition as it is. This conclusion can
be reached without even addressing the potential environmental
impact issues.
Thank you for
event you have any
hesitate to advise.
MJ8 /mlh
32642
r
your consideration to this matter and in the
questions with respect hereto please do not
L. Richard & Karen C. Dee
1201 Hesse Farm ''
Chaska, Minnesota
55318
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JUN 2 ".1994
CITY OF CHANHA-SSEN
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WILLIAM E. HARDER
I tN. I
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Aew 1025 Hesse Farm Road
Chaska, MN 55318
Lic. #41166
612/496 -0770 or
612/370 -6900
612/370 -6412 Fax
June 27, 1994
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317 (HAND DELIVERED)
Gentlemen:
' Pursuant to the notice from Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director, dated June
22, 1994 concerning utilization of the "Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority
(HCRRA) Light Rail Transit (LRT)" and the use of motorized vehicles in reference to
that corridor, i.e. route, I would like to make the following written submission.
I became aware of this request and the consideration of it by the City of Chanhassen
only serendipitously since I was not a recipient of the June 22, 1994 letter, although the
south property line of my residence is contiguous to this route.
0
I purchased this property approximately two years ago with the understanding that the
abandoned railroad right of way was strictly for use by pedestrians and non - motorized
traffic. That fact was a compelling factor in my decision to purchase this property.
All of the properties located in the Hesse Farm Addition contain restrictive covenants in
their deeds which prohibit the utilization of snowmobiles and other similar type
motorized vehicles within the confines of that development, thus clearly stating the
perspective of those homeowners concerning such usage.
Any allowance of such motorized vehicles on this route would totally change the
character of the recreation that was to be provided on this vacated property and would
create not only noise pollution for those contiguous to this route but, likewise, create
significant and ongoing safety hazards to those who would pedestrian upon it. I strongly
oppose any change in the character of the utilization of this route. The proposed change
would negate the philosophy underlying the route's dedication.
I am not familiar with the grant of this property to the Cities of Chanhassen and Chaska,
but I respectfully request that those deeds be perused to determine whether or not such
usage would even be allowed under their title transfer.
Respectfully submitted, ,
William E. Harder '
c: \wp \h \chanhassen.ltr ,
1
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^_, e• CAR :�,� SOUTHWEST TRAILS
WILLARD HALVER SORENSEN PROPERTIES JOSEPH NOTERMANN ,
470 FLYING CLOUD DR J MICHAEL SORENSEN 1205 WEST 6TH AVENUE
Chaska, MN 55318 ROUTE 2 BOX 187K SHAKOPEE, MN 55379
BELLE PLAINE, MN 56011
CHESTER J. TEICH
CURTIS BARDAL
CHARLES MACBLANE
,
825 FLYING CLOUD DR
10301 HEIDI LANE
10320 HEIDI LANE
1100 HESSE
Chaska, MN 55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
,
RICHARD NIEMI
HAROLD HESSE
JOHN E TRUSHEIM
,
10460 BLUFF CIRCLE
1425 BLUFF CREEK DR
10341 HEIDI LANE
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
HOWARD NOZISKA
BRUCE RECH
ROBERT PERRY
THOMAS NIEBELING
RICHARD BUE
MARK BRIOL
1180 HESSE
10360 HEIDI LANE
10361 HEIDI LANE
10377 HEIDI LANE
'
CHASKA, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
'
MICHAEL REDMOND
RICHARD DEE
SHERYL HOUGH
ROGER BROWN
10380 HEIDI LANE
Chaska, MN 55318
1201 HESSE FARM CIRCLE
Chaska, MN 55318
1225 HESSE FARM CIRCLE
Chaska, MN 55318
,
1200 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1250 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1301 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN
55318
EDWARD MUELLER
JOHN FORCE
PAUL ALLEN
1251 HESSE FARM CIRCLE
1001 HESSE FARM ROAD
1002 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
,
DANIEL SMITH
WM E HARDER
MICHAEL G LADD
'.
1020 HESSE FARM ROAD
1025 HESSE FARM ROAD
5102 WEST CAMBRIDGE
Chaska, MN 55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
VISALIA, CA 92377
PAUL HARMEL
FRAYNE JOHNSEN
TODD J ROGERS
1075 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1100 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1101 HESSE FARM ROAD
'
CHASKA, MN
55318
Chaska, MN
55318
CHANHASSEN, MN 55317
HOWARD NOZISKA
BRUCE RECH
ROBERT PERRY
1120 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1180 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1181 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN
55318
Chaska, MN
55318
Chaska, MN 55318
'
ROGER BROWN
EUGENE JUNKER
GARY WEHRWEIN
1200 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1250 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1301 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN
55318
Chaska, MN
55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
t IRK MACKENZIE JOSEPH KANDIKO ARI FUAD
10420 BLUFF CIRCLE 10421 BLUFF CIRCLE 6645 CHEROKEE TRAIL WEST
Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 EDEN PRAIRIE, MN 55344
'LEE ANDERSON RICHARD NIEMI DONALD DUDYCHA
6651 MINNEWASHTA PKWY 10460 BLUFF CIRCLE 6451 ORIOLE LANE
'Excelsior, MN 55331 Chaska, MN 55318 Excelsior, MN 55331
' ANDREW GINDER DONALD DUDYCHA DENNIS BARTHOLOW
9821 DEERBROOK DRIVE 6451 ORIOLE LANE 9841 DEERBROOK DR
CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 Excelsior, MN 55331 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317
JOHN LONSTEIN JOHN REVIER GREGORY LAWLER
, 1559 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE NO PO BOX 358 9900 DEERBROOK DR
MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55427 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317
GARY A KOCH DAVID J PELLER JOHN S POULOS
' 9901 DEERBROOK DRIVE 1819 HAEG DR 7350 BRISTOL VILLAGE
CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 BLOOMINGTON, MN 55431 APT #321
BLOOMINGTON, MN 55438
L ARY DUHER MICHAEL A BOYLAN RICHARD W DENMAN
9940 DEERBROOK DRIVE 17700 SOUTHRIDGE COURT 5105 FORESTVIEW LANE
' CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 MINNETONKA, MN 55345 PLYMOUTH, MN 55442
,JEFF MICHELL PAUL TAUNTON THOMAS ZWIERS
9961 DEERBROOK DR 10125 CROSSTOWN CIRCL 11111 DEUCE ROAD
CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 #310 ELKO, MN 55020
EDEN PRAIRIE, MN 55344
LELAND F GOHLIKE EVERETT OLSON WILFRED H JR DAHLKE
11661 MYERON ROAD 1675 FLYING CLOUD DR 1705 FLYING CLOUD DR
STILLWATER, MN 55082 Chaska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
VERNON TEICH DAN TESTER TERRANCE BEAUCHANE
t 20 FLYING CLOUD DR 230 FLYING CLOUD DR 240 FLYING CLOUD DR
haska, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317
LEON MESENBRINK LE VERNE M VASSAR ALVIN LEBENS
250 FLYING CLOUD DR 285 FLYING CLOUD DR 460 FLYING CLOUD DR
,Chaska, MN 55318 CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 Chaska, MN 55318
ROBERT STEFFES
MICHAEL ARNOLD
NICK EVANOFF
1350 HESSE
FARM ROAD
1400 HESSE FARM ROAD
1401 HESSE FARM ROAD
Chaska, MN
55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
RUSSEL BARTO
JOHN B PAUL
LOWELL CAMPBEL
400 LAKOTA
LANE
17541 MANCHESTER AVENUE
415 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN
55318
IRVINE, CA 92714
Chaska, MN 55318
TIM WISE
LAVERNE WHEELER
M.C. HAPPE
425 LAKOTA
LANE
445 LAKOTA LANE
495 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN
55318
Chaska, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
DEVAL MEDH
N A MONROE
TONY J DESANTIS
535 LAKOTA
LANE
565 LAKOTA LANE
612 LAKOTA LANE
Chaska, MN
55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
CHASKA, MN 55318
VERNE SEVERSON
MR. LOIS A. RIESGRAF
JAMES SALERUD
675 LAKOTA
LANE
720 VOGELSBERG TRAIL
730 VOGELSBERG TRAIL
Chaska, MN
55318
NASKA, MN 55318
Chaska, MN 55318
DEBRA L. WENDORG ALLEN ROTHE
740 VOGELSBERG TRAIL 750 VOGELSBERG TRAIL
CHASKA, MN 55318 Chaska, MN 55318
AU,G- 2 -94 MON 16--33 ATHLETIC FITTERS P-02
NO TO PROPOSED SNOWMOBILE TRAIL,
' Ive lived in this area for several years now and have seen the area got more and more
residentializcd. I don't have a problem with this because its inevitable that the area was
' going to grow and be developed. What bothers me though is the constant disregard for the
beauty of the valley and area. The other day I flew over the area where the raining is going
on. It was embarassing that we allowed this destruction to happen, What used to be full of
' muture trees and brush is now rubble. I used to see wild turkeys,deer and many other wild
species.
The proposed trail is going to bring alot of noise and nuisance to the area. I myself
' own a snowmobile and received a letter from the snowmobile assoc. to vote yes. Well I
couldn't disagree more. I think its time we look out for the neighborhood and the wildlife
' the have chosen to live here. I wonder how many of these snowmobile owners would want
hundreds of snowmobiles driving through their neighborhood at all times of the day. Im
sure they would feel differently if they were the ones who had to live near the trail.
' Once its passed its to late because it will be almost impossible to get the rules changed. I
know when the proposed bike path was being discussed it would have gotten much
opposition if it would have been said it would eventually become a snowmobile trail. I see
many walkers and cross country skiers in the winter using the trail enjoying its beauty
without the noise of high performance engines screaming through the woods.
Ins asking the board to vote no to this proposed snowmobile trail. Make trails further west
' where you don't have the residential neighborhoods that have to be exposed against their
will.
' f11
Respect u y,
Chann assen Homeowner
F
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Mayor & City Council
Don Ashworth, City Manager
FROM: Scott Harr, Public Safety Director
DATE: October 4, 1994
SUBJ: Snowmobile Laws
In response to your request that I provide
providing you with the following:
F
* Memo from Bob Zydowsky red'
snowmobile laws and regulations, I am
Regulations and Rules
* Memo from Carver
* Informational flyer
Club
* Chanhassen City „code section dealing with
The state statutes, lffi to clearly understand because of
their complexity Asti, I.tliiik �f�rlscr be toa municipality,
and we don't havd ing on point at this time (except for speed, recldess ing, etc.).
Please let me know if you have
g:\safety\sh\snomolaw.mem
I MEMORANDUM
F1
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
TO: Scott Harr, Public Safety Director
FROM: Bob Zydowsky, Public Safety Officer
DATE: August 1, 1994
SUBJ: Snowmobile Regulations and Rules
Per your request, I have tried to summarize the State Statute, which is confusing, concerning
snowmobiling. Our current City Ordinance is 'exactly what the State Statute requires. I have
tried to break the statute down to make it easier to understand, and hopefully it will answer some
of the basic questions we are asked.
84.82 SNOWMOBILE REGISTRATION
General requirements: A person may not operate or ,transport a snowmobile unless the
snowmobile has been registered with the Commissioner of Public Safety. The registration fee
is $30.00 for three years and it' shall be the responsibility of each owner to register the
snowmobile every three years.``' Snowmobiles used by the state or political sub - division are not
required to be registered. No one under that age of 18 may register a snowmobile.
84.87 OPERATION, REGULATION; BY MUNICIPALITIES,.:-
No person shall operate a'snowmobile upon a roadway, shoulder, or inside bank or slope of any
trunk, county, or state aid highway. (Riding on a city streetis not 'prohibited, but speed is
limited to 10 m.p.h.).
No person shall operate a snowmobile within the right -of -way of any roadway between the hours
of one half hour after sunset and one half hour before sunrise. A person may operate on the
right -hand side of the right -of -way in the same direction as highway traffic. (One can ride on
the outside slope of the ditch).
A snowmobile may make a direct crossing of a street at any hour providing: I
The crossing is made at a 90 degree angle to the street. '
The snowmobile is brought to a complete stop before crossing.
The driver yields to all oncoming traffic.
The driver crosses at an intersection when crossing a divided highway. ,
When crossing in limited visibility, both front and rear lights are on.
A snowmobile may not be operated on a public street unless it has a headlight, a rear light, and '
reflector material on the snowmobile. A snowmobile may be used on streets which are
determined to be impractical for auto use.
It is unlawful for any person to operate a snowmobile in a careless or reckless manner, at a speed ,
greater than reasonable, without a lighted headlight and /or taillight when required, in any tree
nursery or at an airport, or while under the influence of alcohol. ,
A political subdivision may regulate the use on roadways (Chanhassen has basically duplicated
the state statute), public lands and waterways.
84.872 AGE REQUIREMENTS
No person under the age of 14 may make a direct crossing of a street or highway as the operator
of a snowmobile. Those persons under the age of 14 are also restricted from public land or water '
unless accompanied by a legal guardian or someone else 18 years of age or older.
After reading the above, you may not be anymore knowledgeable and perhaps you are even more '
confused. I would summarize the above information as follows:
(1) A snowmobiler may not operate on a street except to cross the street, or if conditions '
are bad enough to prohibit auto traffic. (2) Snowmobiles may be operated on the right
hand side of the right of way of a roadway. The roadway itself, shoulder, or inside banks
are out. (3) Snowmobiling is allowed on public lands and on waterways. There are no '
statutes that apply to this use unless it involves having a contest.
The other guidelines are pretty self - explanatory. The statute '
regarding snowmobiling is confusing and hard to understand. Hopefully, by sorting out the
statute, we will all have a better understanding.
gNcafety1cso\snomob.mem
I
MICHAEL A. FAHEY
Carver County Attorney
CRIMINAL DIVISION:
James W. Keeler, Jr.
Peter Ivy
Tara E. Keehr
Vicki Vial - Taylor
(612) 361 -1400
COUNTY OF C 1QVEQ
CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE
600 EAST 4TH STREET, BOX 12
CHASKA, MINNESOTA 55318 -2188
FAX (612) 361 -1413
CIVIL DIVISION:
Duane A. Bartz
Chantal S. Sorenson
Kari L.S. Myrold
Chris Weldon, Paralegal
(612) 361 -1410
To: All Carver County Deputies and Members of the Minnesota State
Patrol
From: Mike Fahey, Carver County Attorney
Re: Snowmobiles
Date: January 5, 1994
Because of problems encountered in the past in.the enforcement of
laws relating to snowmobile operation here in Carver County, I felt
it appropriate to issue this memo outlining potential problem areas
for the law enforcement community. They are as follows:
1. within the seven county metropolitan area, which includes Carver
County, no person shall enter and operate a recreational motor
vehicle on lands not owned by the person without the written or
oral permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee of lands.
What this means is that if you see someone driving a snowmobile on
private property and the person does not have permission, they are
committing criminal trespass.
' This is different from normal trespass because here no request to
leave the property must be given.
' This situation will usually arise when you get a complaint from a
homeowner that his or her property is being overrun by snowmobilers
or all- terrain vehicles. The fact that the snowmobiles is on the
property is enough to charge the person with trespass.
Another issue that comes up is what about the snow who is
' driving in a ditch along side a road or highway. Where does the
highway right -of -way stop and private property begin.
' Under Minnesota statute section 84.87, no person shall operate a
snowmobile upon the roadway, shoulder, or inside bank or slope of
any trunk, county state aid, or county highway and, in the case of
a divided trunk or county higway, on the right -of -way between the
opposing lanes of traffic.
Furthermore, no person shall operate a snowmobile within the right -
of -way of any trunk, county state aid, or county highway between
the hours of one -half hour after sunset to one -half hour before
sunrise, exceot on the right -hand side of such right -of -way and in
L .:.: !:i'77; ty:fat (JF'f ) CfiUGif :/ LlLfhv::cf
Conta m:)::. ^num 1iv Post Consumer Was!e
two
i
page
the same direction as the highway traffic on the nearest lane of
the roadway adjacent thereto.
Most right -of -ways are 33 feet from the centerline from the road.
Officers will have to use their judgment as to where the right -of-
way ends and private property begins.
'
All of you also know that there are designated snowmobile trails in
Carver County. Snowmobiles may be operated in these areas.
'
You should also be advised that under Minnesota statute 84.87,
snowmobiles may make a direct crossing of a street or highway at
,
any hour of the day provided:
(1) the crossing is made at an angle of approximately 90 degrees to
the direction of the highway and at a place where no obstruction
'
prevents a quick and safe crossing; and
(2) the snowmobile is brought to a complete stop before crossing
the shoulder or main traveled way of the highway; and
(3) the driver yields the right -of -way to all oncoming traffic
which constitutes an immediate hazard; and
'
(4) in crossing a divided highway, the crossing is made only at an
intersection of such highway with another public street or highway;
'
and
(5) if the crossing is made between the hours of one -half hour
'
after sunset to one -half hour before sunrise or in conditions of
reduced visibility, only if both front and rear lights are on.
Attached to this memo are the city ordinances for Waconia,
Chanhassen and Victoria dealing with snowmobiles. Since these are
the more urban cities in the county, they are being included. If
you would like the ordinances for the other cities, please let our
office know.
In an effort to highlight certain provisions of the ordinances, be '
advised as follows:
In Victoria, no person may operate a snowmobile on any street or '
alley within the city in excess of 10 miles per hour. It is also
illegal to permit a snowmobile to enter upon the ice of a lake at
any point other than a public access, or from the owner's own
property, or from prperty of a person other than the owner's with
the written permission of such owner.
In Victoria, it is also illegal to operate a snowmobile on any
private property within the city unless such is a designated
snowmobile trail or the operator has express consent of the caner.
1
page three
In waconia, it is illegal to operate a snowmobile upon any public
street or alley between the hours of 8:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m.
However, if the snowmobile is being driven for the purpose of going
in the most direct, practicable route possible from a point outside
from city limits, to the residence of the operator within the city
limits, or from the residence of the operator inside the city
limits to a specific destination outside the city limits, then, and
for that purpose only, operation of a snowmobile between the times
specified above shall be lawful.
The Chanhassen city ordinances follow closely state law and
therefor will not be highlighted.
2. At times it may be difficult to determine the identity of the
person in actual physical control of the snowmobile in the event of
a trespass or other violation of the law. Under Minnesota statute
section 84.88, subd. 2, the registered owner of the snowmobile may
be fined up to $300 if a snowmobile bearing the person's
registration number is operated contrary to the provisions of
sections 84.81 to 84.88, or 97.091. This would include any
violation of chapter 169 of the traffic laws or the trespass
referred to above.
The registered owner may not be fined if (a) the snowmobile was
reported as stolen at the time of the alleged unlawful act, or if
(b) the registered owner demonstrates that the snowmobile either
was stolen or was not in use at the time of the alleged unlawful
act, or if (c) the registered owner furnishes to law enforcement
officers upon request the identity of the person in actual physical
control of the snowmobile at the time of the violation.
The provisions of this subdivision do not apply to any person who
rents or leases a snowmobile if such person keeps a record of the
name and address of the person or persons renting or leasing such
snowmobile, the registration number thereof, the departure date and
time, and expected time of return thereof.
3. Registration. Under Minnesota statute section 84.82 subd. 2, it
is required that a snowmobile be registrered and that the
registration number be affixed to the snowmobile.
For snowmobiles made after June 30, 1972 and sold in Minnesota the
snowmobile registration number shall be affixed at the following
location and of the following dimensions:
(1) A clear area shall be provided on each side of the cowling or
pan with the minimum size of 3 -1/2 inches vertical by 11 inches
horizontal.
(2) It shall be a minimum of 12 inches from the ground when the
7machine is resting on a hard surface.
page four
on all other machines, the registration number shall be affixed on
each side of the cowling on the upper half of the machine.
'
It is a misdemeanor to not have the registration number affixed in
the location provided by law.
,
4. Remember that it is unlwaful for a snowmobile operator, after
having received a visual or audible signal from any law enforcement
officer to come to a stop, to (a) operate a snowmobile in wilful or
'
wanton disregard to such signal, or (b) interfere with or endanger
the law enforcement officer or any other person or vehicle, or (c)
increase his speed or attempt to flee or elude the officer.
5. Under section 84.87 subd 2 it is unlawful for any person to
drive or operate a snowmobile in the following unsafe or harassing
ways:
,
(a) at a rate of speed greater than reasonble or proper under all
the surrounding circumstances;
(b) in a careless, reckless or negligent manner so as to endanger
the person or property of another or to cause injury or damage
thereto (this provision is comparable to the careless and reckless
'
driving provisions under chapter 169 of the traffic laws and should
be used as a guide for charging purposes);
for
'
(c) without a lighted head and taillight when required safety.
6. As already mentioned above, all provisions of chapter 169 apply '
to the operation of snowmobiles upon streets and highways, except
for those relating to required equipment. Section 169.09 (duty to
stop and give information in event of accident) applies to the
operation of snowmobiles anywhere in the state, which includes '
lakes.
It is the intention of this office to provide as much support as is '
possible to law enforcement and property owners in the enforcement
of laws relating to snowmobiles. With the number of deaths already
very significant in this season of snowmobiling, we owe it to the '
public and those snowmobilers who obey the laws to rigorously
enforce the laws in this area.
If you have any questions, please call me. I
n
Help Keep snowmobiling Alive in
Chanhassen. Join us at:
Chan Bowl (Filly's)
Meeting Room
7:30 p.m.
Every 2nd Wed. of the month
Help keep our trall system open
949 -2509 Matt Think Snow!
934 -802 Mike
SNOWMOBILERS
DO YOU WANT TO TRAILER
YOUR SNOWMOBILE OUT OF
TOWN TO SNOWMOBILE?
IF NO!
THEN FOLLOW THESE LAWS
The Chanhassen Public Safety Department has received numerous
complaints about snowmobiles being operated illegally. We wish to
remind Chanhassen residents of the following ordinance regulating
snowmobile operation:
It is unlawful for any person to operate a snowmobile:
1. On a public sidewalk or walkway provided or used for pedestrian
travel, or on a boulevard within any public right -of -way;
A. This means you cannot ride on the curb of Kerber Boulevard or any
other curb, you must ride on the STREET.
2. On private property of another without lawful authority or express
consent of the owner or lessee;
3. On any public or private school grounds except as permission is
expressly obtained from responsible school authorities;
A. Chanhassen Elementary School property and the property north of
Chan City Hall are off limits.
4. On any publicly owned lands, including but not limited to park
property, playgrounds, recreation areas and golf courses unless
authorized for such use by the proper public authority;
A. You cannot ride in Pond Park or on the pond.
B. You cannot ride in any Chan Parks.
C. You cannot ride in Lake Ann Park except on the designated trail.
5. To tow any person or thing on a public street or highway;
6. At a speed greater than 10 mph within 100 feet of any lakeshore,
fisherman, fish or ice house, or any sliding area or skating rink when
in use;
7. In a manner as to create a loud, unnecessary or unusual noise which
disturbs, annoys or interferes with the peace and quiet of other
persons.
8. On west 78th Street.
To sum it up, the streets and the trail system is the only legal places you
can ride. The road banks of Kerber Boulevard, City Parks and private
property are off limits!
In Addition to the Above, no snowmobile shall be operated on streets or
highways at a speed exceeding ten (10) miles per hour. At no time may
a snowmobile be operated when the operation would reasonably en-
danger other persons or property.
Organized patrolling will be taking place to enforce these laws!
For additional information call: Chanhassen Snowmobile Members -
Matt 949 -2509, Mike 934 -8027 or attend Chanhassen Snowmobile Club
meetings every 2nd Wednesday of the month at Chan Bowl meeting
room.
HAPPY TRAILS
CITY OF
0
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900
Snowmobile Operation
The Chanhassen Public Safety Department has received numerous
complaints about snowmobiles being operated illegally. We wish
to remind Chanhassen residents of the following ordinance
regulating snowmobile operation:
It is unlawful for any person to operate a snowmobile:
1. On a public sidewalk or walkway provided or used for
pedestrian travel, or on a boulevard within any public
right -of -way;
2. On private property of another without lawful authority
or express consent of the owner or lessee;
3. On any public or private school grounds except as per-
mission is expressly obtained from responsible school
authorities;
4. On any publicly owned lands and ice, including but not
limited to park property, playgrounds, lakes, recreation
areas and golf courses unless authorized for such use by
the proper public authority;
5. To tow any person or thing on a public street or highway;
6. At a speed greater than 10 mph within 100 feet of any
lakeshore, fisherman, fish or ice house, or any sliding
area or skating rink when in use;
7. In a manner as to create a loud, unnecessary or unusual
noise which disturbs, annoys or interferes with the peace
and quiet of other persons.
In addition to the above, no snowmobile shall be operated on
streets or highways at a speed exceeding ten (10) miles per hour.
At no time may a snowmobile be operated when the operation would
reasonably endanger other persons or property.
For persons wishing to file a compliant against snowmobile opera-
tion in violation of the laws of the state and city, call the
Carver County Sheriff's Department with the license number of the
violating snowmobile. Please call Jim Chaffee or Scott Harr at
the Chanhassen Public Safety Department if you have any
questions.
§ 12 -17 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
Sec. 12 -31. Definitions.
ARTICLE II. SNOWMOBILES*
The definitions in Minnesota Statutes section 84.81 apply to this article. The following
words, terms and phrases, when used in this article, shall have the meanings ascribed to them
in this section, except where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:
Boulevard means that portion of the street right -of -way between the curbline and the
street boundary line in platted areas.
' Right -of -way means the entire strip of land traversed by a highway in which the public
owns the fee or an easement for roadway purposes.
Roadway means that portion of a street or highway improved, designed or ordinarily used
' for vehicular travel, including the shoulder.
Safety or deadman throttle means a device which, when pressure is removed from the
' engine accelerator or throttle, causes the motor to be disengaged from the driving track.
Organized race means a race sponsored and conducted by the park and recreation com-
mission, the chamber of commerce, jaycees, American Legion or similar council- recognized
civic groups or associations.
*State law references — Snowmobiles, M.S.
M.S. § 84.87, subd. 3. § 84.8 1 et seq.; local regulations authorized,
Supp. No. 6 670
(c) Prima facie violation. The presence of any boat trailer parked on South Shore Drive,
'
South Shore Court or Hill Street is prima facie evidence that the registered owner of the boat
trailer committed or authorized the commission of the violation.
'
(d) Penalty. Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. The
minimum penalty for violation of this section shall be a fifty- dollar fine. The maximum
penalty for violation of this section shall be the maximum penalty as set by state legislature
'
for misdemeanors.
(e) Impoundment. Any police officer may remove or cause to be removed an empty boat
t
trailer with or without the motor vehicle it is attached to from the street to a garage or other
place of safety when a vehicle is parked in violation of this section. Such trailer and/or vehicle
shall not be released until the fees for towing and storage are paid in addition to any fine
imposed for violation of this section.
(Ord. No. 89, §§ 1.01 -5.01, 5 -9 -88)
Editor's note — Ordinance No. 89, adopted May 9, 1988, did not specifically amend the
Code; hence, inclusion of §§ 1.01 -5.01 as § 12 -17 was at the discretion of the editor.
1
Cross references —Boats and waterways, Ch. 6; parking, § 12 -50 et seq.
'
Secs. 12- 18- 12-30. Reserved.
Sec. 12 -31. Definitions.
ARTICLE II. SNOWMOBILES*
The definitions in Minnesota Statutes section 84.81 apply to this article. The following
words, terms and phrases, when used in this article, shall have the meanings ascribed to them
in this section, except where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:
Boulevard means that portion of the street right -of -way between the curbline and the
street boundary line in platted areas.
' Right -of -way means the entire strip of land traversed by a highway in which the public
owns the fee or an easement for roadway purposes.
Roadway means that portion of a street or highway improved, designed or ordinarily used
' for vehicular travel, including the shoulder.
Safety or deadman throttle means a device which, when pressure is removed from the
' engine accelerator or throttle, causes the motor to be disengaged from the driving track.
Organized race means a race sponsored and conducted by the park and recreation com-
mission, the chamber of commerce, jaycees, American Legion or similar council- recognized
civic groups or associations.
*State law references — Snowmobiles, M.S.
M.S. § 84.87, subd. 3. § 84.8 1 et seq.; local regulations authorized,
Supp. No. 6 670
Supp. No. 1
670.1 1
'
MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC § 12 -33
Street or highway means the entire width between boundary lines of any way or place
when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purposes of
vehicular traffic.
'
(Ord. No. 44, § 1, 1- 11 -71)
Sec. 12 Application laws;
-32. of other statutes adopted.
All city traffic ordinances shall apply to the . operation of snowmobiles upon streets and
highways, Minnesota Statutes sections 84.81 to 84.88 and Minnesota Statutes chapter 169,
'
except for those provisions relating to required equipment, are adopted by reference as if set
out at length in this article.
(Ord. No. 44, § 5, 1- 11 -71)
'
State law reference — Adoption by reference, M.S. § 471.62.
Sec. 12 Operation
'
-33. generally.
Except as otherwise specifically permitted and authorized, it is unlawful for any person to
operate a snowmobile:
'
(1) On a public sidewalk or walkway provided or used for pedestrian travel, or on a
boulevard within any public right -of -way;
'
(2) On private property of another without lawful authority or express consent of the
owner or lessee;
'
(3) On any public or private school grounds except as permission is expressly obtained from
responsible school authorities;
'
(4) On any other publicly -owned lands and ice, including but not limited to park proper-
ty, playgrounds, lakes, recreation areas and golf courses, except areas previously
listed or authorized for such use by the proper public authority, in which case such
'
use shall be lawful and snowmobiles may be driven in and of such areas by the
shortest route. Authorized areas owned by the city shall be designated by resolution,
provided that snowmobile operation shall be permitted on all public bodies of water,
'
provided that the operation shall comply in all respects with all ordinances;
Supp. No. 1
670.1 1