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PRC 2012 02 28 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 28, 2012 Chairman Daniel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jeff Daniel, Steve Scharfenberg, Tom Kelly, Cole Kelly, Elise Ryan, Peter Aldritt, and Brent Caron STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Mitch Johnson, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Daniel: Are there any changes or deletions or additions to the agenda today? Todd. Hoffman: Chair Daniels, I have some additions to the update section. I would like to update you on the Rice Marsh Lake trail project. The Minnewashta Heights Park proposed stormwater ponds, and those are proposed to be constructed with the 2012 street improvement project in the Minnewashta Heights neighborhood. Provide you with an AIS update from last night’s council meeting and then Commissioner Kelly would like to talk about moving the March meeting up a week for scheduling the disc golf open house and disc golf conversation in March. Daniel: Okay. We’re going to put those under reports then for the first three? Hoffman: Yep. We’ll put the first 3 under administrative and then Commissioner Kelly can talk about the meeting whenever he. Daniel: Alright. We’ll put that under commission member committee reports. Okay, if there’s no other additions or deletions, let’s just go ahead and approve the agenda for tonight. Tom Kelly: I move to approve the agenda. Cole Kelly: Second. Tom Kelly moved, Cole Kelly seconded to approve the agenda with the following additions: Rice Marsh Lake trail project, Minnewashta Heights Park stormwater ponds, and AIS update under Administrative Updates. Under Commission Member Committee Reports Commissioner Tom Kelly asked to discuss the March meeting date. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:Aldritt moved, Carron seconded to approve the verbatim and summary minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated January 24, 2012 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL FOR PARK AND RECREATION SERVICE AWARD WINNER. Daniel: I think we had one that recanted, is that right Todd? Hoffman: Jerry’s item. Ruegemer: I didn’t hear that. Daniel: The recommendation to City Council for park and recreation service award winner. I was going through it and I do believe one of the nominees had I think taken their name off or, I thought I had seen something on that. Maybe Todd had said something. Could be wrong. It might have been a dream then. No here we go, yeah it’s right here. Service award so I thought one of them had made a statement that they were embarrassed and didn’t want their name. Ruegemer: Maybe that was a personal conversation maybe you had with somebody. Daniel: Nope. That was I thought something that was on one of the emails that got sent out. I could be wrong. Scharfenberg: I don’t recall that Jeff. Cole Kelly: I don’t either. Daniel: No, I mean I’m sorry. If I’m wrong I’m wrong but I thought I had saw something like that so, maybe we can just move on from that. Tom Kelly: Who do you really want to win? Daniel: That’s what it comes down to. Kandy or Terri so. Anyways, why don’t we get a chance to talk about that since we’re going to make a recommendation to the City Council. Staff’s recommending that the commission review the applications and forward a recommendation. Ruegemer: As you can see we only had two nominees this year and they both were from the resident group. We did not have kind of one from every category this year so we just had the two. Kandy was certainly helped us out with our recreation sports. Rec sports programs that we had with a number of different sports. Helped out with the special events. Really was a huge asset for us. Fire department and the rec center out there this past year in 2011. And Terri Kelly, I’m sure maybe a lot of you know Terri Kelly with some of her time commitment to the Chanhassen community with photographing all the events. High school events. Special events. She’s, there wasn’t really many that she misses and we certainly are the beneficiaries of a lot of her images. She donated I don’t know how many images, thousands of images to the city for us to really use in publications, newsletters, any really way we see fit with that so really two deserving candidates. They really helped us tremendously this past year so it really is the commission can review both applicants and make a recommendation to City Council to review. Daniel: Alright. Commissioners, do you need to take some time to review the nominees, if you haven’t already? Make a recommendation. We can certainly open it up for discussion as well. Cole Kelly: My first discussion is just to clarify that this is not the Terri Kelly that’s my wife because they do get interchanged in public quite a bit so I’m not related so I won’t be recusing myself from that. 2 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Daniel: Okay. Tom Kelly: The only thing I can say is that I know that this isn’t a lifetime achievement award but I know Terri from years past and she’s been really actively involved in a lot of the sports programs here in the city, especially baseball. I think she may even have managed one of the age groups for a couple of years. I know that’s not what she is being nominated for but she’s been very active in the community for a long time over and above just the photography. Ryan: And I interacted quite a bit with Terri when I was involved with the first year of the Redbirds baseball games and she was always willing to help and do whatever and she made a great CD for the team for the inaugural year and I’ve seen her at a number of the events as well and I think the photography that she does, she does great work and what she provides the city is invaluable so I think she’s a great nominee. Daniel: Okay. Steve? Scharfenberg: I don’t have anything to add. I know Terri personally and she does a wonderful job and does a lot with the community so. Daniel: Peter or Brent? Aldritt: Yeah, I don’t have anything to add at this time. Carron: None for me. Daniel: Cole. Since she’s not related to you. Cole Kelly: I’m going to vote for her. Daniel: Well let’s go ahead and make a recommendation. I think there’s a. Hoffman: And then we have how many categories, three? Ruegemer: We have 4 different categories. Hoffman: Four categories and you could certainly recommend both for this one category if you choose. We are giving no other awards in the other three categories. Daniel: It’d be under C? Ryan: A. Resident groups. Daniel: Or community groups, I see what you mean. Scharfenberg: I would then recommend that we adopt both nominees, Kandy Jelle and Terri Kelly for the resident group award. Daniel: Can I get a second? Ryan: Second. 3 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Scharfenberg moved, Ryan seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council approve Kandy Jelle and Terri Kelly for the Resident Group Park and Recreation Volunteer Service Award. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. Hoffman: They’ll be recognized at a City Council meeting in the later part of March. Daniel: Now Todd, I don’t know if it was one, did I see something that was posted on the website? That somebody had said thank you for nominating but it’s not something I want. I know I had seen that somewhere. Now I’ll be at work tomorrow searching. Combing through it. Cole Kelly: I just pulled up all of Todd’s emails. It’s not on there. Daniel: I’m not saying it was those two but it could have been someone else for all I know, but I thought I saw something where they had, one of the candidates through an email or personal had responded or something like that. Hoffman: I think probably in the past. Daniel: Okay. Maybe I was looking at like an old one. Alright, let’s go ahead and go onto reports. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: FEBRUARY FESTIVAL EVALUATION. Daniel: So Jerry, February Festival evaluation. Ruegemer: Well I think Mitch is going to take that one. Daniel: Mitch. Johnson: My first one. Well thank you Chair Daniel and commissioners. And also thank you guys for all your help showing up the day of and I think it was definitely a great turn out you know that you guys can come help the event, as long as with the other volunteers as well. Chan Rotary, Chanhassen High School Key Club, the boy scouts, Camp Tanadoona. Obviously the volunteers you know really kind of bring everything together. I thought we had a great event. Beautiful weather. Everyone who was out there. Numbers were a little bit down. We were down about 100 tickets for the ice fishing contest. We kind of contribute that to you know kind of the ice conditions as far as statewide. Kind of the conception around. Other than that I think it was a great event. My first big community event. The Rotary did well. Concessions and Culver’s. There was always a line up there. The sleigh rides this year were moved, we went from sleigh rides to wagon rides I guess. We moved it on the trail. Kind of went around Greenwood Shores Park and back. It was really great. The only thing about that kind of little off kilter as far as the rest of the festival but just for traction for horses we made that move. But other than that I think everything went well. If anybody has any questions I’d be happy to address them. Daniel: We’ll start off with Peter. Any questions? Aldritt: No. Not at this time. Daniel: Or comments. Brent. You were there. 4 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Carron: Yeah, for my first time too. I thought it was awesome. I really had a good time. I really had a good time volunteering so I’m looking forward to years to come. Good job. Daniel: Cole. Cole Kelly: I thought it was a great event. I didn’t expect with the weather that the numbers would be down so you know I don’t think there’s much you can do about that. I like the new house that was brought in to do all the numbers this year. I thought that was fantastic and I’m glad no cars went through the ice. But I think it was a great event. Thank you for everything. And oh, our emcee I hope we compliment him enough so he’ll be back next year. Hoffman: Denny does a great job. Yeah what, 36 cars went through in Wisconsin at Lake Winnebago. Cole Kelly: Did you see the picture in the Minneapolis paper, the truck coming out of Gull Lake? Daniel: Now imagine 36 more of those. Cole Kelly: Yeah. Daniel: Tom. Tom Kelly: I thought it was a great event. I thought the how you guys had the prizes all lined up pretty much in order. It was really easy to distribute the prize. I thought bringing the, how we did it for the fishing contest, putting out there was a great idea as well. My favorite memory of the Feb Festival was the boy scouts who one year drilled a hole right next to the hole where you dumped the fish in. They were taking the fish out and bringing them up as quickly as…but that now has been topped by the dead northern yep. But a great event. Hoffman: We’re going to need a few more judges next year. Daniel: I was so excited to see that thing coming up there and you know for that one millisecond realized oh my god it’s dead and she’s holding it. I take it you had an opportunity to talk to the guy. Hoffman: I talked to the whole clan. It’s a very well known clan from the Chanhassen area so. Daniel: And did they apologize? Hoffman: They actually thought it was pretty funny. Daniel: I guess to a certain extent some things might have to go with a sense of humor but nonetheless, alright. Elise. Ryan: Congratulations on your first Feb Fest. I thought you did a great job. Everything seemed to go smoothly when I was there in the early part of it. Glad that the rest of the event went well. The one thing that will, well two comments. One, and I think I read it somewhere in here or dreamed about it, like you’re having Jeff, to have bigger signs of raffle tickets and you know just a general ticket sales because a lot of people come around to the tent for, and I know it seems obvious when you have tables with people sitting on them that that’s where they would get their tickets but for whatever reason they seem to miss them so just more signage for when people come to know where to go. And then Councilman Laufenburger, I commented and we all thought he did such a great job emceeing but his suggestion was 5 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 possibly bringing John Stutzman back next year to emcee the event because people recognize him and thought that would be a fun thing to have him come back and be a part of it so, anyway just wanted to make that recommendation. But nice job. Scharfenberg: You know what was nice though about having Denny there, he knows all the people that are there and he’s able to go up and talk to them whereas I don’t know a lot of these guys that are fishing or are there and that they belong to the chamber and stuff like that so it’s nice that he’s there and he knows all those people and can say hey George, what did you think today and that just adds to the event that he’s there and that personal one on one you know where I don’t think you get it with some of us. Ryan: Right, I agree. And that’s what I said. I thought he did such a great job and he does have that personal relationship with a lot of the folks out there but it was his recommendation so I wanted to make sure I passed that on. He was being modest. Scharfenberg: Wonderful event. You know Jerry and Todd and Mitch, staff just again really nicely run event. I think everything went very smoothly and too bad we couldn’t have a bigger fish like that eelpout that was in the picture. Daniel: Excellent, thank you Steve. Again as I would say Mitch as well, congratulations on doing a very good job on organizing and getting the community involved as well as the rest of the staff. There are some things as I read through the suggestions. I do like the idea, and Todd I know that we had maybe at th one time done this but the overhead banners on West 78 Street. Excelsior does a great job of that promoting every one of their events that they have in downtown. Now it’s a little more convenient for them because it’s a 4 way stop versus hanging over you know street lights but nonetheless I think that would be an opportunity for us to not only promote the February Festival but other major events that the City sponsors. th Hoffman: Well we have a banner pole that we hang the 4 of July banner on now. You’ll see the Southwest, so we have banner poles. All we need is a Feb Fest banner. Daniel: Okay. That’d be great if we could. I think that would be an investment well made and as I said it’s I think now probably one of my favorite events that I have of the year and next year I get to go in as a participant. I promise you that I will not dig dead fish out of the ice. Cole Kelly: We’ll know right away. Daniel: You’ll know right away, exactly but I think it was just another success and I think it’s unfortunate in the sense that if it’s too warm the numbers are down. If it’s too cold the numbers are down. But actually the more, the closer you get to really that thin line of really being cold is better. You get more people. It’s just weird because it was beautiful out. It was a great day. Hoffman: It was thin ice scare that really kept people away. Daniel: Yeah, oh understandable too. I mean we understand that but still, I think we had 600 people at least that we had out there, that’s awesome you know and I think this will be one of those events that I think a lot of people look forward to every year. And especially this year as I heard there was tailgating beforehand and people there early and that’s great. Hoffman: Yeah I think we can be just very happy that as an ice fishing contest centered event that we actually got it in because so many were cancelled across the state. 6 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Daniel: Yep. And it was very well coordinated so very good job. And plus I think every fish caught got a prize. Hoffman: Just about. Daniel: Just about. Was there one of them? I think we did, didn’t we end up 2 short. Hoffman: Yeah but we probably had about multiples. Johnson: Yeah. Daniel: Oh but every person who caught a fish, let me take that back. Hoffman: About 70 fish were caught I think and 48 were awarded prizes. Daniel: Excellent. Alright. Cole Kelly: And for me a personal thank you to Jerry Ruegemer for bailing we out. I thought my boots were in my car and they weren’t. He bailed me out with a nice warm pair of boots. Thank you Jerry. Daniel: You mean those tennis shoes weren’t going to work? Oh I’ll be fine. Ryan: I remember hearing that in the beginning. Hoffman: For the first hour. Daniel: Alright, thank you. Alright, let’s move on Mitch to Daddy Daughter Date Night evaluation. DADDY/DAUGHTER DATE NIGHT EVALUATION. Johnson: It was good. Daddy/Daughter Date Night, it’s a two night event. We held it on a Friday and Saturday night over at the Rec Center. We used all four party rooms. One room we used the wall partition to hide a DJ behind it and then the other three for the first hour of the event we have a catered in meal. We do different games and activities with the dads and daughters, and then the last hour we pull the curtain and have a little dance floor there. It was a great event this year. My first experience with the event. We had dinner was catered in by a local catered, just outside of the city. We were able to save some costs versus prior years. We also supplied the beverages and dessert which also helped save on the cost. New DJ this year. DJ did a wonderful job. He’s done some events for us in the past such as the Barnyard Boogie so looking forward to having him back again next year. Couple other activities through, we also had a face painter and a balloon artist. Did a great job. There’s always people in line waiting for their services. We also had a photographer in the lobby area where the daughters and the dads could get their photos taken before free of charge. They print them right there and they hand them to you as they leave so nice little aspect. Special thank you to Glenrose Floral. They’re one of our sponsors for the, all the community events throughout the entire year. They also stepped up for this event and got us some carnations at a discounted rate that we provided to the girls as they walked into the event. I think they really enjoyed that aspect so yeah, overall it’s a great event. If anybody has comments or questions I’d be happy to. Daniel: Alright, let’s go. Commissioners. Any commissioners attended with their daughter? In a while. Hoffman: The Mayor was back for multiple years so he enjoys the event. 7 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 thth Carron: I have one question. Is it, so you do this two nights in a row? On the 10 and 11. Johnson: Yep. The way we do it, we set everything up on the Friday and then basically we just shut the doors, lock it and then we just reopen it for the Saturday night. One reason we do that, the numbers were so high we can’t quite get them all in for one night and you know it allows the flexibility for school night and work. You know we start at 6:00 so if somebody can’t get there for the 6:00, they can go to the Saturday night so. Carron: Okay. Hoffman: Some dads bring a different daughter each night. Daniel: Oh, fantastic. Hoffman: Their own special night. Daniel: So it was 108 dads and daughters, 216 total? Johnson: 108 total for two nights. Daniel: Okay, gotch ya. Johnson: I think we had about 42 the first and just over 60 the second night so Saturday night was a bigger one but it’s real fun. A lot of girls show up in little corsages and I’ve heard stories where dads have had limos in the past. You know kind of make it like a whole event. Whole evening event so. Daniel: Excellent. Alright. Well thank you Mitch. ADMINISTRATIVE UPDATES: Hoffman: Thank you Chair Daniels. Well it appears as though Commissioner Ryan is probably a lock after…so council will continue to interview candidates. We have, Ms. Tipton is a senior center or Senior Commission applicant and also Park and Rec. And then they’ll interview a variety of other candidates and I believe that by the end of March they’ll make their final recommendation so we’ll know then. Appreciate Elise coming back with her application and you’ll get another fresh face as well. Daniel: Alright. And Todd as far as the interview with the commission then, we’ll do that in March or? Hoffman: No. Since there was only 2 applicants and 2 seats you didn’t need to do an interview. Last year I think we had 8 so you had to…make a recommendation. Daniel: That’s right. Okay. Cole Kelly: So no 6:30 meeting next time? Hoffman: Probably for disc golf. Not interview. Cole Kelly: Okay. Daniel: So you want to talk about Rice Marsh? 8 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Hoffman: I do. Hand these around. You can keep these in your park and rec files. There’ll be two different handouts. This is an exhibit, on the bottom it’s labeled Rice Marsh Lake preliminary alignment proposed for MnDOT’s limited use permits so the limited use permits or LUP for MnDOT, we need to secure those for these two properties. These two PID numbers. Between Highway 212 and the lake, Rice Marsh, both those properties are owned by the State of Minnesota. They will allow us to construct that trail, a pedestrian trail, a city trail within those State properties as long as we get a limited use permit which basically says you’re allowed to go on there and build a trail but if we want to take back the properties at any time for any reason we can kick you and your trail out. So we will apply down in this end, Eden Prairie has voiced an interest deferring the connecting closer to the tree line so I think this will go straight instead of around this little howl or hole that’s in that woods in that area so the trail will go straight down here and connect up. Eden Prairie, once we get to this point Eden Prairie will build back from the bridge and make that final connection. This is not on the CIP so we’ll be talking about that as a part of the CIP project. How we’re going to manage to implement this. We think that we may build this as an in-house project because of the need to save costs over the long run. Second handout is a development, just at this corner so this is the final house. It’s a log home and then this development is right off the corner down here, the John Klingelhutz property and so this back edge is what you see in this section of property here. So the log home sits right in this particular position. If this cul-de-sac is developed we will acquire this park outlot. It’s primary purpose is to gain a construction access to those two properties so we have a truck route for grading, hauling of rock base material and then eventually asphalt. It also may allow for a re-route. Currently the trail travels between the rear yards of all these homes that are in Tigua and then the lake but it goes right in the front yard of this particular house. This last log home that’s here so that yellow line would represent the current configuration. And then what this would allow for is an opportunity to re-route potentially the trail around the back side of the home but that will be determined at a future time. At present this easement that runs in front of that home to the property line has been in place since the mid to late 60’s so we have that pedestrian trail easement in place. In fact we mow it as a trail today and people utilize it. It’s on top of a sanitary sewer line. So wanted to bring the commission up to date on what’s going on with the Rice Marsh Lake. This is a trail that Commissioner Scharfenberg spoke to that he rode his bike down to the Eden Prairie side and we’re very excited that Eden Prairie’s started their construction and that they’re willing to move forward. Next summer they’ll build the section of trail along Bearpath down to Lyman Boulevard so that there will be complete… Any questions from the commission? Scharfenberg: Is there a lifespan on those limited use permits? Hoffman: Currently it’s unlimited. They’re talking about taking it down to a 20 or 10 year and then you would just have to renew it so there’s a little bit of change going on right now at MnDOT and what they’re finding is that they’re discovering so many LUP’s that are currently, there’s nothing left of the improvement that was originally granted and so they’re going to start putting a timeline on them. It’ll be either 10 or 20 years but then you can re-up them. You know you want to make sure that you’re kind of considering the risk. I don’t think there’s a big risk of these properties being developed. Especially if this last parcel is developed, that’s the only, this is the only last avenue to gain access to those properties other than the trail. You couldn’t get a road access there so I don’t think they’re really marketable for development. Currently this one has been offered to us for about a million and this one for about $250,000 and if we can build the trail without acquiring the properties I think that’s the better move. Scharfenberg: Offered by MnDOT? Hoffman: Correct. We’ve asked them for their price. It’s based on the appraisal of what they paid for the original lots. They paid a lot more for the east lot than they did for the west lot. 9 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Aldritt: But you would never be able to develop that you’re saying? Hoffman: I don’t think, once this project, then those two properties are pretty much land locked and non developable. Aldritt: And would that bring that value down then? Hoffman: It may bring the value down but at present I don’t think there’s any reason for us to pursue the acquisition. At some point I think they’ll just be given back to the City. Daniel: Todd is there currently a, you say it’s a mowed path that goes right up to that orange dotted point, is that what we have? Hoffman: Correct. It stops just short. It stops. Daniel: Just short of their property? Hoffman: Yeah, at the end of this property so you can walk that currently. You can take the St. Hubert’s trail or the Rice Marsh Lake trail and just keep walking and you can walk all the way down to this point. Daniel: Okay. So then once the orange dot, is there anything, any trail between there now? Is there anything that’s been just walked? Hoffman: There’s some ATV and hunting trails in there but there’s no real pedestrian trail. Some of the neighbors go in there and that’s primarily who is using the mowed trail on top of the sanitary line is just the neighbors. But it’s a good practice for us to maintain it as a public right-of-way because this is going to be, you know there’s going to be some folks that aren’t real happy that that public trail is finally being built in their back yard after 40 years. Daniel: Is it something that we’re, are we looking to go and they’ll have asphalt type of trail or is it, I mean can we stage it where we can grade a natural trail like we have around Kerber Pond and then from there build it in the next phase? Hoffman: Yeah, the trail currently is turf and then the one in the wood line would either have to be rock or asphalt in order for it to hold. Daniel: Okay. Hoffman: But the proposed trail is asphalt since the rest of it all the way around the lake is asphalt. Once this is completed it’ll be one of the nicest trail segments in the metropolitan area. It’s absolutely gorgeous in there. And then you can ride all the way out, ride or walk, run all the way around the lake and through some absolutely spectacular property. That woods is just one of the nicest areas. It’s on par with the Prince property woods and those type of trails. This is very similar to that. Scharfenberg: Todd, what’s the likelihood that that subdivision’s going to be built? I mean is it? Hoffman: Well it’s a concept. We’re hoping it comes through. Right now they’re having a challenge getting this road, this curve to engineering standards but the property is owned by John Klingelhutz. It’s being marketed. They’re trying to make it…so that it can be profitable but we’re hoping. With housing starts that are currently Pioneer Pass and Reflections at Lake Riley going out and they keep coming back and talking, at least talking to our engineering division so I hope it goes through. Without it, it would be 10 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 very difficult to build that trail. There’s currently only one access point and it’s down inbetween the two homes that, down farther to the north so there’s a trail that runs through, inbetween two homes and if you can imagine building that, that’s going to be hundreds of dump trucks and trying to take that kind of activity inbetween two homes would just be… Daniel: They’ll fill in the marshy area then? Hoffman: Well it’s just a steep slope between two homes and if this was acquired at the same time that they were doing the street construction then we would move in and create this smaller road to come in and build that trail off at the end of this. And then when they’re done in selling lots that we would back out and asphalt it to this point and the project would be complete and then we would maintain this as a future maintenance access into the future. We have houses wrapped around here before and we said we needed that lot… Daniel: Okay. That certainly will be exciting if and when we get that completed. Hoffman: Yeah, it’ll be back on your agenda during the CIP process and we’ll have updated diagrams at that time. An update on some stormwater ponds that are being proposed as a part of the street project up on Dogwood Avenue and Elm Tree. The Minnewashta Heights neighborhood. Minnewashta Heights Park. Some of you commissioners have probably been there. This project is similar but not identical to the one that took place in Kerber Pond Park. So they’re talking about piping water in on the west end of the park. Having it go through three shallow basins. Currently water does stand in this location and one of the things the neighbors asked about is trying to get that standing water out of there so they’re supportive of this basin being constructed. It will take away that standing water. This will be engineered and constructed to drain properly. And this is going to handle just about a one inch, just short of a one inch rainfall event. Originally when it came in they had this entire field, playing field was a pond and we made a recommendation. We didn’t feel that was going to be a benefit, a positive, you know a win/win for the neighborhood and so we asked them to re-grade it down along that property boundary so you’re not taking out the open field. You’re not taking out playground. You’re actually improving a low spot that currently exists in the park and you’re still taking care some of the water. Minnewashta Heights was built before stormwater so this is one opportunity the neighborhood has to improve the water quality before that street water and roof water runs into Lake Minnewashta at this particular location. Commissioner Carron and I were talking before the meeting, there’s also another stormwater improvement in here that’s unique. There’s a 400 foot long sand based filter that will be under the street just before you hit the lake and so that’s going to treat another section. These particular three cells will treat one kind of chunk of the neighborhood. That big long sand blanket that will have the iron filings in it, will be underneath the road. That will treat another big chunk of the neighborhood there before that water runs into the lake. And then they’re also asking for rain gardens in your front yard and 5 of the 10 people have signed up for rain gardens. They’re still seeking another 5 rain gardens and that’s to treat just some runoff that’s going to, eventually is going to hit the lake anyway so if they can get it running off the street into a rain garden before it then empties into Lake Minnewashta so it’s kind of a three tier approach in this particular neighborhood. There’s not enough land to develop sufficient stormwater holding ponds to treat it all before it goes into the lake. The neighbors have been contacted. Terry Jeffery, our Water Resources Coordinator is taking those calls and comments. The council saw this last night. There may be some minor modifications. This would have come to the Park Commission for review but there was some timing issues so I just wanted to bring it to your attention. If you have any questions or comments I’ll be happy to take those back to the engineering division. Daniel: Commissioners. Brent? Carron: I’m good. 11 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Daniel: Peter? Cole? Alright, thank you Todd. And AIS. Hoffman: Again update from last night’s meeting. Another handout. These are the action steps that the City Manager proposed under AIS. A voluntary watercraft inspections program. The City will most likely contract with one, some service provider. Either the County or the watershed district. Either Riley- Purgatory, Minnehaha Watershed District for up to basically $10,000 worth of inspections. Watercraft inspections at Lake Ann, Lake Susan, and Lotus Lake. This would be in addition to the DNR inspection hours. The DNR is currently scheduled to come out to Lotus Lake 99 hours this summer. And then any volunteer association type of inspections. The best management practices is the second one. I’ll go through a quick power point that I went over with the City Council last night. You can think of the BMP’s or the best management practices as really, we’re just going to create a whole bunch of awareness at our public access points through signs, some billboards, some information board type things and then some stenciling on the pavement and so there’s no way you’re going to be able to launch or take a boat out at our water accesses without understanding that there’s something going on with aquatic invasive species in our state. We’ve applied for some grants through our water resources coordinator for inspections. Paying for inspections. The public awareness and education, you’re going to see the community’s newsletter, the Connection filled with awareness information about AIS. They’re talking about opening fishing type of event. And then lastly the council wants to see an end of the season report so they understand what did take place for aquatic invasive species education and management over the summer and how many boats were inspected and how many issues were there. Did it make any difference? Did any of our lakes, were they found to have aquatic invasives that we currently don’t know about and so an end of the season report. Let’s go through the BMP’s. This is the handout to keep for your file and then we’ll go through it over on the screen as well. These are the DNR advocated programs. It’s the recommendation to implement aquatic invasive species, best management practices for all of our city owned public water access locations within the city. We own three. It’s at Lake Ann Park, Lake Susan Park and South Lotus Lake Park. The public accesses within our city that are not included under this include Lake St. Joe, which flows into, Lake St. Joe flows into Lake Minnewashta. I’m sure the Lake Minnewashta people are going to, if they’re not aware of that already they’re going to become aware of that because they’re doing the Lake Minnewashta program but if zebra mussels find their way into Lake St. Joe, they’re going to flow directly downstream into Lake Minnewashta. That’s a very small landing owned by the DNR. Does not have any parking. Typically if they launch there they either park on the street or they park up at Roundhouse Park, but it is utilized. It is a formal public access. In 2010 and 2011 the DNR held a variety of meetings and stakeholders wanted to have designated AIS activity areas and so basically that’s an area where boaters can inspect their boats prior to going into the water and then inspect their boats for weeds, water and other things when they leave. They wanted to see, the stakeholders wanted to see as much of this activity as possible taking place and then it is the personal responsibility of all boaters operating within the state to follow State Statute. No different than any other laws within our state. This is a diagram that shows all of the BMP’s which could be established at any particular public water access in the state. The next three slides, I won’t go through them in specific detail but these next three slides talk about what is currently in place at Lake Ann, Lake Susan and Lotus for existing best management practices. Basically signs, notifications, pull off areas so that’s Lake Ann. We just did an inventory of what was currently in place. When you get, really this is the action steps of what’s going to happen at Lake Ann is there’s going to be a variety of signs installed, an info board, some trash receptacles, a pull off area is going to be developed on the exit portion of Lake Ann. The DNR is going to provide these signs most of them free of charge. We may have to purchase the stencil to stencil the asphalt. Then we’ll keep that in-house and refresh those stencils over time. So when you pull down to Lake Ann you’re going to know that something’s going on as far as AIS. There’ll be a lot of information there for you to read so you understand… Then at Lake Susan, asphalt stencils, signage, info boards. The info boards will include the State Statute so if you’re curious about you know just exactly what the State Statute is, you can read that. Lots of education and information signs. Down in the lower 12 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 right there’s a general education, aquatic hitch hiker sign and we’re going to not only post those at the public access points but then that will go to the beach. The beach at Lake Ann. The beach at Greenwood Shores. The beach at Carver Beach. There’s two beaches at Carver Beach. And then all the fishing piers and so the people in those locations can also read about what’s going on with aquatic invasive species. As I think most everyone is aware, there’s a lot of different carriers or potential carriers that can bring this. It’s not just boats but it’s bait buckets. Docks. Boat lifts. Equipment. Nets and all sorts of thing can potentially transfer aquatic invasive species and so you need to educate people at all the different access points on a water body. And then Lotus Lake, all the different signage. The budget for this at both Lake Ann and Lake Susan, it’s just under 10 grand and about half of that is that asphalt. So Lake Ann, Lake Susan, 10 grand. And then Lotus Lake, $5,200. These will most likely come out of stormwater management but I don’t know exactly where these funds are going to be taken out of. I’ll let you know. We haven’t figured that out. The City Council instructed the City Manager to identify these funding sources and then report back to them where exactly those dollars will be allocated from. So that’s what’s going on with AIS. I wanted to update you. I know it was an issue that really started here in our community some time ago and it’s been in the papers ever since. There were residents at the meeting last night at the work session meeting. They spoke in favor of, while they appreciated this proposal they really wanted full time inspections at the lakes. From what I heard from the council members they, while they appreciated that and they would even be willing to do it, they didn’t believe that it was going to be 100% effective. That education and a combination of things is really the best that can be done in the community and they supported the proposal but until they see where the dollars are coming from, the program hasn’t fully been supported just yet. They support it in concept. They just want to know where the dollars are coming from. Scharfenberg: Has the idea of the gate and that kind of all gone by the wayside at this point? Hoffman: For right now. Scharfenberg: Okay. And Todd, what’s going to be done to educate homeowners that have property that surround the lakes. Now Lake Ann, there’s hardly any but Susan and Lotus, is there going to be mailings to them? I mean Lotus, a majority of the people know and people are reading the paper and that but are we going to be sending out letters or anything like that to the individual lake owners? Hoffman: I’ve not heard that as a specific recommendation but it could be part of the public awareness campaign that they receive something like that. I know that the Mayor’s going to write his entire article for the summer newsletter on AIS so it’s going to be in there but a specifically targeted mailing would be helpful as well because sometimes I don’t think people necessarily think of all different avenues that you know that could transport the zebra mussels. Daniel: Okay. Other comments or questions? Ryan: Yeah, just a comment. I’m very glad that the City is moving forward with it. I know it was a tough and somewhat sensitive topic when it came to us and I think, I’m very glad that we as a commission moved it to the City Council level and it’s continued to, that the council has taken a leadership role for really the State of Minnesota and I think that’s great for Chanhassen so I’m very glad to see that it’s still moving forward and they’re taking steps even albeit small. I know there is a lot of conversation around is education enough but I think it’s a great first step in figuring out what can be done to really help this issue so I’m very pleased at the way that this is moving forward. Daniel: Okay, thank you Elise. Any other comments? No, I agree with Elise. I’m glad to see that at least the City has started to take some steps in collaboration with the associations and other organizations that have expressed an interest in trying to address this issue so hopefully this will be the step that will 13 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 help keep our lakes clean and free of invasive species so thank you Todd. Alright, let’s go onto commission member committee reports. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS: DISC GOLF COURSE COMMITTEE. Daniel: Tom is excited. He has all sorts of things to show us because he’s at the computer. Tom Kelly: Well first I want to just let everybody know, a week ago Saturday Elise and I met with Chuck Kennedy and he and Lyle earlier in the morning had actually gone through Bandimere and designed the 9 hole course and we wanted to kind of review the plan with everyone here. The thing they were most cognizant of when they design a course was, you’re not, there is a trail in Bandimere so you’re going to be crossing the trail. If the hole’s across the trail, or the flight of a disc crosses a trail, it’s inevitable that that trails going to be crossed multiple times so their big concern was when you are crossing the trail make sure that the golfer, the disc golfer has complete vision of the entire trail so to avoid inadvertent collisions between disc and walker so that’s one thing that they really stressed when they designed this course. I don’t Elise, fill in if there’s anything I missed on that. Ryan: Right on. Tom Kelly: So the course design, they recommended 9 holes and a practice hole. This was new to Elise because they did this after we left them and actually 7 of the 9 holes have 2 tee boxes. Red which would be shorter for the beginners, and white for the more what they call active recreation. When we looked at the course they just had 2 or 3 but when they went back and looked at it, they actually wanted to do it on almost all the holes. Not that anyone keeps score at disc golf but they’re going to have 8 par 3’s and one par 5. The ninth hole is the par 5 and they almost envision it like a signature hole. They were really excited about the ninth hole and I think this course could attract some decent disc golfers because they say usually 9 hole courses are totally recreational and you’re not going to really draw from people well outside the city because they have other options but they think this course could really attract some of the better golfers, even though it’s a 9 hole course. There will be some requirements to remove some trees. Some scrub. Some buffer and they did a really good job of making use of the trees and of our forested areas, for lack of a better word, wherever they could. So going to the course, this is an overview. I’m going to go through each hole, hole by hole but their suggestion for a practice box is just kind of thing, this thing just has a practice, a practice hole right between the Huffman rock and that big green transformer. It’s kind of an open area and they thought you know if we had the money you might as well just do a little practice hole. Hoffman: That’s an irrigation box. Tom Kelly: Irrigation box, okay. The first tee box, so this is the play, the bigger of the two play structures at Bandimere. The first tee box would be here and here. Again and the hole would be, it would go, actually I’m sorry. Why am I doing that? Here we go. Here’s the shot of hole 1. So the two tee boxes are here and here and the hole would be slightly in the forested area here. Yes across the path but you’re actually kind of uphill a little bit here so you really have very good vision of any type of walkers or runners all in the potential flight area of the disc. There’d be a little buffer that would have to be removed from this area but you can see this is kind of a popular area for the holes. They were suggesting to have one here and one here so there’ll be a little convergence of golfers, disc golfers. I don’t know what you want to call them, throwers but, so that was hole one. This is, I think this is going to be a pretty easy hole. Kind of get your juices going and things like that. Second hole was a really cool idea. So after you, after you finish this hole you kind of walk back up here to tee box 2 and for the white hole they 14 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 actually want to cut about a 20 inch clearing, a 20 foot. So 20 foot clearing through that, I don’t know what you want to call it. It’s more than a brush. It’s a little grove of trees. Hoffman: Grove of trees, yep. Tom Kelly: The nice thing about this he said is that when you, so it would require the golfer to actually have a relatively straight throw through the trees. If someone has a bad throw, it’s not really going to hit anybody on the path because the trees are not going to be disc down. And then for your less experienced or more novice players they’re proposing a tee box right here. Again you’ve got great sight of this path with the destination. This hole, and this is the softball field that has the shortest dimensions so this is the softball field that’s closest to the playground area. I think it’s a softball. I don’t think baseball plays there because of the fences are way too short. So then this is the hole number 2. Then after that you walk up. Again now this is left field for what I call the baseball field with the biggest dimensions. It’s right behind the softball field so they’re proposing putting a, the hole right, and ask questions along the way please. Carron: Tom, is there a fence there at that baseball field? Tom Kelly: Yes there is and they actually wanted this close to the fence so the fence could not, the closer you put it to the fence, the less likely it is to land on, in center field so that was why they wanted to, they wanted to wedge this up as close as they could to left field. And then this is a cool placement for the hole. It’s just to the east? West? Hoffman: West. Tom Kelly: West of the silo and it’s somewhat protected on the, by the trees. Somewhat protected by the trees right there. They did suggest maybe trim down some of these trees to 8 feet from the ground but they kind of nestled this hole right by the silo and they are, they want to avoid anything past the silo. They call that a dead zone. They just wanted to avoid. Ryan: Bermuda triangle. Tom Kelly: Yeah, the Bermuda triangle. They said potential expansion here. They thought we could expand out to 12 holes if ever we wanted to but for the time being they want to limit that. Scharfenberg: So just if you get Frisbee’s that are going into the, people are throwing them and they’re going into the baseball diamond, I can’t remember Jerry or Todd, does the fence overlap there that they can walk through it so people would have to either climb the fence or go back around? Ruegemer: Ask the left fielder to throw it back over. Hoffman: If that’s a problem we’ll just lap the fence at one location. Scharfenberg: Okay. Ryan: But the way that it’s positioned you’re, when you’re throwing it’s really angled away so the reason why you start up close to the fence is for the typical right hander. If you threw it, if you mis-threw it would hit the fence right away before it got any flight because of the way it angles away from the fence. Hoffman: Yeah, there’s a variety of options there. You could raise that fence to 12 feet for that particular section or make that cut in the fence. See how the course plays out. 15 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Ryan: Yep. Tom Kelly: So after you sink the birdie on hole 3 you kind of walk over here to hole 4. Get a little better view of that. Again this is the same picture, sorry. Got a little lazy. The idea is to clear a little bit of the shrub around here and there are houses back behind hole 4 but they want to situate the tee box so that the trees would actually buffer the houses from a errant tee shot so they’re using trees to the advantage. There is, this is probably the diciest place in terms of a path crossing because it’s somewhat blind and their suggestion is actually to keep the grass there. I wrote these notes and I took a lot of notes when Jeff was talking so a lot of these may not make sense but there is a birdhouse somewhat over here somewhere and their recommendation is let’s mow that tall grass pretty short all the way to the birdhouse. It may have been you know it’s a few feet in so you actually would improve the visibility of the fairway but that was probably the diciest hole I think of the 9 was this one right there. Ryan: Because the path kind of comes up and curves around so you can’t see people very clearly coming up and then it would cut a chunk of those grasses so the question will be will some of the residents like that or not and so. Scharfenberg: Why not put the tee box just on the other side of the path? Tom Kelly: I don’t know. I don’t know. Ryan: He just liked it in. You know I think it’s more like a visual. Make it fun to be in the trees, yeah. That would be the only reason. Hoffman: More variety. Tom Kelly: Yep. And then he suggested here, this may be a good place for some caution, flying disc signs. Not warnings. He must have said that half a dozen times. Ryan: At least. Tom Kelly: Caution, flying disc. Scharfenberg: Why not warnings? Tom Kelly: I just, I don’t think, he was pretty adamant about caution. Ryan: Right, because warning is, it could possibly. Caution is there are discs flying. Semantics. Tom Kelly: So once you get done with hole 4, I’m trying to think there’s, then hole 5 is a short little 180 yard foot hole and again it would require some removal of some limbs. There’s some prickly stuff by the hole he suggested to get out. He wants to put a basket. There’s a big tree that has 2 stalks and that’s where he suggested putting the basket but this, you actually have really good visibility of the path here. Hoffman: That’s prickly ash. Tom Kelly: Prickly ash. Prickly ash…prickly stuff, yeah. And there’s more of that I think on hole 6 and 7 but we encountered a lot more of that stuff. Hole 6, this is totally, you can’t tell from the picture but it’s all prickly ash in here and it’s a straight shot and this would require a lot of clearing. Really we walked from tee box to basket on this and it was, I mean we were taking pretty big steps to get over the stuff so it would require some significant, but it’s all stuff that can be taken out. And he wants to put the tee box 16 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 near a birdhouse and I guess there’s an evergreen tree there so he wants to put the basket past the evergreen tree. Hole 7 is a pretty interesting hole. Again there would be a lot of clearing for hole 7 as well so this is the path that’s going down into Bandimere Heights. It’s actually a pretty decent hill going down into Bandimere Heights so you just finished hole 6 here and the tee box is right there and it’s a straight shot to that basket but it would require some significant clearing of, to create the fairway but most of what’s in there is scrub. There’s really not a lot of trees that would come down at all but he really was trying to make use of this section of the park because of the shade. I mean just as you know playing in the summer, the players are going to appreciate the shade. Which my son then argued that it’s a tick farm in there so either way. But then he countered and said no, no, ticks are inside. The ticks are… Scharfenberg: Tom, can you pull back just so we can see kind of where that is in relation to. Tom Kelly: Oh going back to the main one you mean? Scharfenberg: Yes. Tom Kelly: So that’s 7 right there. So 6 is totally in the scrubby stuff and then 7. Ryan: And just to clarify when Tom says a lot of clearing, it’s clearing of the brush and the you know like you said the scrub and kind of, we’re not taking down trees or anything living. It’s all trees that you know need to come down if they’re dead trees so they were very cognizant of not taking anything that’s living and you know good for the park. Tom Kelly: Hole 8 is where the challenge starts. This is where a disc can conceptually be lost on hole 8. He had two suggestions for the white tees. This one here was in the shade and he thought it was again the golfers may appreciate being in the shade. The shot is more of a direct shot over the pond. There’s a dead tree that would have to be removed and he suggested removing some of the trim as well. Or trim off some of the other trees. I believe he liked this angle better but it wasn’t in the shade and I think I don’t know, I kind of favor this one as well but he left it up to us. He said you know this is again shade here but he thought this was actually a better angle towards the hole and then he suggested putting, making a very easy shot with the red tee right here. Carron: From basket 7 to the tee box at 8, is there a way, like is it clear enough to walk through the trees or do you have to walk back up the fairway? Tom Kelly: You can walk through the trees because we walked through the trees when we walked through it, yep. Yeah, that looks pretty dense in there but it’s not and did he ever suggest creating some type of a pathway? Hoffman: Yeah, we would start the path so they don’t take 6 paths. Cole Kelly: 20 inches? Hoffman: 3 feet. Tom Kelly: And then this hole would end up pretty, this is the basketball. This is the half basketball court at Bandimere Heights so the basket would be right here and that then will lead us to our ninth, the signature hole. This is a little different. This is where you know obviously we’re designing this course with someone that’s designed a ton of golf courses so you’re looking at this and you say why is the red the easy one harder than the white and that’s because of pars. His suggestion is to make the red a par 5 and the white a par 4. The idea here is that the red golfer is going to lay up before the pond and the white 17 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 golfer is going to be, the white tee playing golfer is going to be incented to actually try to carry the pond onto the fairway. What he believes this is, he was very excited about this hole. This is his signature hole. There would be some brush that would have to be cleared out once you crossed the pond. He suggested maybe putting some rock around the pond to help walking because you know discs are going to fall into that pond. There’s actually, you can’t see it here but there’s actually a tree that’s somewhat protecting the pond as well so it’ll be a very challenging shot even for the white tees to get over the pond, and I think that may slightly go uphill too. Once you cross the pond it goes uphill. There is already a very nice walking trail on the right side of the pond right now so that already does exist. And then you pretty much, you know you finish right up there and then you’re right by the parking lot and you’re on your way. Hoffman: Tom, were they throwing discs as you were going? Tom Kelly: No, we were not. Hoffman: They could just visualize the shots? Tom Kelly: Yeah. They may have when he and Lyle designed it early in the morning but we weren’t throwing discs when he was walking through it. Daniel: So when you lay up, I mean is this, looking at the width of the basketball court, and I’m guessing the width. Are we talking, what’s our basketball courts, 50 feet? Hoffman: 50 feet. Daniel: So it’s a 50 foot throw. Tom Kelly: Oh from the basketball court. From here to here? Daniel: From the edge of the pond to the, to cross it. Tom Kelly: Oh yes, yeah. Yeah. That’s not. Daniel: So it’s something a 9 year old could do or 10 year old? Tom Kelly: Right, yeah. Yeah. But I mean unfortunately I mean you’re…so it’d be very, you can throw 50 yards pretty easy but, throw it 50 yards sideways pretty easy. Daniel: How deep is that pond? Hoffman: Deep sometimes. Depending on when it’s full or not. Daniel: Okay. Is it full year round or does it get dry? Hoffman: It dries up. You’re not going to wade out there very easily if it’s full. Daniel: Okay. Hoffman: We’re going to collect discs… Scharfenberg: Say Tom, did you guys, thank you for doing this by the way. You and Elise. This is wonderful. Did you guys talk about maybe making the 9 starting hole and the only reason I say that is for 18 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 parking purposes? I mean if you’ve got Bandimere with baseball and soccer and those parking lots are kind of all full. Tom Kelly: Right. Scharfenberg: Up on the top and you’ve got that lot. There is that little lot down below. I mean no one goes down there and so if you’ve got people, and this is going to be something that you want to use, that you would start at 1 and work your way up the hill and then you would end back down here. Tom Kelly: Right. Scharfenberg: Just something, just a thought. Daniel: Yep, that’s a great idea. Tom Kelly: I know he liked the idea of, he thought this could attract, so let’s say if a team is playing double headers, a double header soccer game, he thought that maybe between games the teams could play disc golf so I think that’s kind of, and I don’t think we’ve really considered starting down there but a reason why he wanted it up there was because if you have a mass of people up there but I see what you’re saying. This is parking is going to get a little tight there for tournaments. I don’t know what you think the neighbors would think about that because they use that for their personal, that’s like a little auxiliary parking lot for some of those houses. I mean I walk my dog there all the time and there’s yeah. Hoffman: Yeah, you wouldn’t meet additional resistance if you’re going to meet any at all if you propose that to be the starting point for the disc golf. I think the neighbors would say now you’re, because that park was, you know we kind of let it go back to them after Bandimere, the larger park was built and that parking lot used to be for soccer games and practices and all sorts of things when Bandimere Heights was a soccer field at that one time so now it’s been fairly quiet down there. I think disc golfers will find it even if it’s not designated. Tom Kelly: Yep. Hoffman: Because they can just start, shoot up 9 and then start on 9 and just go around so if there’s not parking up top I think they’ll pretty easily find that. Find that additional. Daniel: They’re pretty resourceful. Tom Kelly: What I was worried about when we met over in the farther, he was thinking about using this area and maybe having a hole come in here and then another hole going back down there and I was worried about the stone house. I thought the stone house family had issues with that but we really aren’t infringing. No one’s going to come anywhere close to putting a disc on his lawn I don’t think. I think they did a great job of removing that house from play essentially. So going through this a little more we have, yeah so this is just, I just had some additional notes. He said there was a nice canopy you know once you crossed the pond. A nice canopy of trees but there’ll be some trimming that would have to be done. His recommendation was to set this up, do not cement the tees for a few months. Just kind of see how the course plays out and see if any of the tee boxes need to be moved before you go through the expense of laying down the cement. In fact we talked a little bit about trash and he suggests you know maybe 3 spots for trash receptacles in addition to, I believe there was trash already at the basketball court but he had a couple suggestions for those places to put garbage, trash receptacles. Hoffman: Do they like benches at the tees? Benches. 19 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Tom Kelly: You know, I know they had benches at Hyland. No at, what’s the one at Eden Prairie? Not Hyland. Hoffman: Bryant. Tom Kelly: Bryant. They do have benches because it does, that gets kind of packed up and they do have benches. We didn’t talk about benches at all. Daniel: I think they primarily have them just, I don’t think they have them at all. I think they have them in the ones going, where you have a little more elevation. Change. For Bryant. Hoffman: We could do a few. We don’t necessarily have to do them all. Daniel: No but we have some, we have extra benches lying around it’s certainly an opportunity to utilize them. Tom Kelly: For baskets he recommended the Mach 5 from DGA. Not certain what that is but he said essentially there’s two types of baskets. One he calls the no frills. The basket just goes right into the ground. It’s cemented into the ground. The second is where you, the deluxe is where you actually cement a pole into the ground and then you, and the basket and you put it on the pole. He said the nice thing about the no frills one is it’s permanent and it’s more secure. It’s cheaper but the downside is it’s going to be a little more difficult to install. With the deluxe baskets, he said those are primarily for if you are actually going to change your whole placement on the course, that’s when some courses go with the deluxe but it would require you to actually secure the basket to the pole and he said you know bolt cutters can get by some of those security measures so his recommendation for us, since he didn’t envision us ever moving our baskets around would be for the no frills but he said regardless what you see on the website, if you buy at least 9 baskets you’re getting them for about $295 per basket. And the next steps Elise and I talked about is you know you probably want to get our arborist out there to have her, I believe that’s Jill. Have her step through the course and kind of make recommendations for things to remove and then maybe see what everyone here thinks about the course and then hopefully invite the neighbors in March to look over the course. Chuck will not be here but he said Lyle would be able to make that meeting. Get some buzz going with local papers so Elise suggested maybe some kind of a home sponsorships with local businesses and maybe even plant a tree. Maybe buy one or something as kind of a commemorative tree. So it was a, I really enjoyed stepping through it with him. I was pretty excited. I think Elise probably felt the same way. Ryan: It was fun. Yeah, it was great. I think it’s going to be a great addition to the community. Cole Kelly: I’ve got questions on holes 3 and 5 if you want to pull those up. Tom Kelly: Yep. Cole Kelly: Hole 3, let’s see was that, no excuse me. It wasn’t 3. It must have been, let me take a look here. 2. 2, I’m sorry. 2 and 5. Hole 2 you’ve got the long shooters don’t cross the trail but the short shooters do and is that because of the, is that a hilly area there where they didn’t feel they could put the short shooters on the same side of the path? Tom Kelly: Oh, no. To be honest he designed this hole 2 after we met with him so I really don’t know what his thinking was for putting the red hole 2 on this side. When we met with him he only was, I think 20 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 he actually may have proposed a red one going right here I think when we met with him but then when he emailed the final design it was over on, it was over on this side but I can ask him about that. Ryan: My guess would be because of the proximity to the field and the way that you would normally have your shot. If you start from that clump you would get too close to the softball field whereas if you’re on the other side the path really, you have clear view of everything there and then it’s. Cole Kelly: If you have an errant shot the errant shot won’t go over the path either. That’s probably, yeah. Ryan: So it won’t go into the field. Hoffman: And the green grass there is more of a slope than where he’s got it but. Cole Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: I’m still interested in taking a look at, there’s more than one of those where you know I think we are going to take some, well you know…tossing a path is one thing. Discs are still going to cross no matter where you put the forms. Tom Kelly: Right, yep. Cole Kelly: And then go to 5 please. And was the reason we didn’t move that in, are we feeling we’re getting too close to the houses there because it looks like from the big picture that we’ve got a little room to try and not sail those discs over the pathway. Tom Kelly: Oh so you’re asking why is it, why aren’t we closer? I don’t know how much. Cole Kelly: Do we have a little, my question is, and I know you don’t have the answer but this is, and you know when we meet with them it’ll be a question we can ask is can we move the starting area and the basket both over a little bit and take a little less over the path and again I don’t know how close we want to be to the houses but it looks like we have a fairly safe distance there from this picture but I’m, you know I’m not positive on that. Ryan: I think that’s pretty steep there isn’t it? Daniel: You’re looking at the edge of the property you’re less than 50 feet. Hoffman: Yeah, I would tend to agree with that thinking Cole but then once you get, I don’t think we can push it far enough off that it would make, that you would throw comfortably. If there was somebody in the path you would still have to wait anyway. Cole Kelly: Right, okay. Those were the only two questions I had Tom, thank you. Daniel: And it’s clear, I think if I remember correctly it’s clear visibility of that whole path, for that hole crossing there so I mean it… Tom Kelly: Right, right. When we looked at this it was hole 4, I think hole 4 was the one where we were actually, that was the one we had the most concern. And he had the most concern as well which is why he suggested doing some major mowing on the flatter side of the path. 21 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Hoffman: I can’t wait to see what the labs off leash do with these discs. Tom Kelly: What labs off leash? Hoffman: That will be exciting. Scharfenberg: Did you guys talk about signage at all? Tom Kelly: No, besides the caution sign, not really you mean like for each hole? Scharfenberg: Right. Tom Kelly: At the park. We talked about that a little bit I think. There was nothing. Ryan: He said something about the numbers. Whether or not we wanted to number the holes right away but in terms of additional signage for rules and regulations or any of that, that was never discussed. Daniel: Now Todd would we mark each hole with, I mean do something in-house where we, you grab a 4 by 4 and maybe engrave in a couple, the hole number with the distance or something. Hoffman: Sure. We’d have to take a look at a sign package. It’d also be nice to have, you can get these just like that you can get them printed and present that at each tee and so people know where they’re shooting to or what they’re looking at. Carron: Or you could paint something, once we get the concrete you could paint it right on the concrete too. Can’t see it as well but. Daniel: Couple cans of Krylon you’re good to go. Carron: There you go. Tom Kelly: And it’s pretty amazing, look at the space and to get 9 holes in there and some pretty diverse holes I think was pretty impressive. I mean I really was impressed with his entire thought process of what he was looking for for each hole. Daniel: It’s certainly different. I mean our first attempt at this, you know took us around Bandimere. Tom Kelly: Yep. Daniel: And obviously we had some concerns with the reconstruction of 101. Now we’ve really put it all on the east side of the park and it’ll take advantage of quite frankly portions of the park that aren’t being used. Tom Kelly: Yep. And he was, he said he and Lyle were a little worried when they started the course design. They weren’t that excited about it early in the morning but as they got into it more they really got pretty jazzed up about it so he was pretty excited about it. Ryan: He was. Hoffman: Same as last time. They’re just slow to warm up those two. They were like ah, but then when we first started it was in the first day you cannot see the old park, the Bandimere Heights from where 22 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 you’re standing and then once they got down to there they were oh, okay. The trees that are being utilized there were planted by park maintenance staff in the 80’s. The first part of the park was an agricultural field when that housing area was developed and then when Bandimere was expanded, a playground and a soccer field came out of there. The basketball court went back in so hopefully the neighbors will support it I think and that buffer is pretty key between the, you know so the holes stay mostly out of it. That’s pretty key for those backyard neighbors there but as far as park boundaries go they enjoy a pretty wide buffer there currently and this does not impede on that. Tom Kelly: When we were talking to him you could tell he does this for a living and he’s a professional of this and he was saying you know for the, around here he said you can you know when you can just kind of you know discourage people from going towards the ponds just by putting some stakes, white stakes and tell them it’s out of bounds. The only way the white stakes are going to help me is if my disc happens to hit it…so he’s thinking more of you know a professional how they would do it and I’m thinking you know that thing’s going to be a magnet but pretty excited. Daniel: Is it common? I mean because I don’t, well I almost know for a fact over at Bryant Lake, which is the only disc course I’ve spent time at and I’ve seen Starring Lake, where I don’t think there’s any water crossing is there? Tom Kelly: Water crossing, no. Bryant has the parking lot crossing. Daniel: Oh yeah. Tom Kelly: …challenging hole. You can find discs, you can find discs there all season long. I think a couple of holes, at least one of the holes at Bryant I know has, I know for a fact has a pond on the left of the fairway that’s fairly easy to reach. Daniel: Okay. Tom Kelly: But in terms of water crossing this is no, I haven’t played, and Starring doesn’t have anything. I mean you walk across a ravine but you’re not throwing across anything. Daniel: No. And you hit it right on the head as far as the discs. I can find at least one disc a year out there. Or Bryant Lake so, and I usually find them underneath my car. So oh no this is, I mean from a design standpoint this is, this is exciting. And especially for a 9 hole course and as I stated earlier, an opportunity to expand the functionality of the park and get it more accessible for other activities besides soccer and softball and baseball. And then when we move Todd to the point where we’re looking to expand to a hockey rink, I assume that was, that’s on the plan isn’t it? Hoffman: (Yes). Daniel: So tennis court there, is that right as well? Hoffman: Correct. Daniel: So we’re looking at a multi-functional park quite frankly that almost has more activity opportunities than our premiere park in Lake Ann. That’s a lot of stuff crammed in a very small area but nonetheless it’s fantastic. Especially now that they have 212. It’s close to 212. It’s no longer off the beaten path between you know the old 212 and Highway 5. It’s extremely accessible to, you know for people to come in from out of town and to make that quick trip. 23 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Tom Kelly: Yep, it already is. Daniel: So, great job. Absolutely great job. Tom Kelly: Thanks. Hoffman: Let’s talk schedule. Tom Kelly: Okay. First I’m surprised Jerry hasn’t just… Hoffman: All lighting on the disc golf. Tom Kelly: Keep me up at night. What I would ask the commission for personal reasons is, I’m traveling that last week of March so I was seeing if the commission would be open to having our March th meeting the Tuesday prior, which I believe is the 20. Hoffman: And that would be everything. There would be an open house at 7:00 for disc golf or 6:30 and then the meeting after that. Daniel: Would this be, would we be going to Bandimere? Tom Kelly: No. Hoffman: No. A community open house here. Tom Kelly: Yep. You actually said in the senior, we’d be meeting in the senior center? Hoffman: Oh yeah, correct. We’d be in the senior center. The Planning Commission would be in here so we’d hold our meeting and the open house in the senior center. Have this board up and basically the way we run those open houses is, all 7 of you don’t stand at the door waiting to attack the first person that walks in. Tom would greet the people as the crowd gathers steam and then one of you engage in the conversation and talk about what’s going on with the disc golf proposal. And then after that, I think City Manager Gerhardt would like to then introduce the results of that open house at your joint meeting with the council. And that will be in March also. th Daniel: So March we would have a business meeting on the 20 and then our regular scheduled meeting th on the 27? Hoffman: Nope. Daniel: Do it all. So when we hold, we will hold everything in the senior center. Hoffman: In the senior center. Daniel: It will not be here at all? Hoffman: No. If that works with commissioners. I’m not sure what your schedule is. Carron: It’s good with me. Cole Kelly: And we’d meet at 6:30? 24 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Hoffman: What time do you think is appropriate for the open house? 6:30 or 7:00? Cole Kelly: What do you typically have? Carron: What do you expect, a half an hour presentation and questions or? Hoffman: Yeah, you’d be done in a half hour to an hour depending on how many people show up. If more than 10 people show up it could take longer than a half hour. Cole Kelly: Make it 6. Hoffman: 6:30 to 7:30. Ryan: Yeah because we can start early if everybody’s gone so. Daniel: 6:30? Hoffman: And then regular meeting at 7:30. Daniel: Okay. Tom Kelly: And then when would we be meeting with the, so our joint meeting would be the week after with the City Council? Hoffman: Probably. We’ll schedule it so it’s after the open house but I’ll get you that. That will be a th Monday night, probably the 26. It might be into April. I’ll have to double check the schedule for you. Tom Kelly: And you said they would have the results? Hoffman: Just for you to…how it went. Tom Kelly: Oh we would tell them? Hoffman: Yeah. Tom Kelly: Okay, Okay. Alright, any other questions on the course at all? Daniel: Nope, excellent. Like I say, this will be exciting. Tom Kelly: You know what was really helpful was the fact that we didn’t have any snow and they really got a really great vision of where things are. They said they like to design the courses at this time of year because all the foliage is all the trees and they really can see how things were laying out. Daniel: Okay. SKATE PARK COMMITTEE REPORT. th Hoffman: I’m just going to recommend that our, we’ll hold our power point for the 26 meeting. Daniel: …There’s little or no information available on that yet. 25 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Scharfenberg: No, we had a meeting. The three of us and Todd met and we just talked about the budget and some of the ideas and the equipment that’s available. Brent made a really good suggestion that we try to wrap this in with the street maintenance and we can, for cost wise we can maybe save some money that way. Brent can speak to that maybe a little bit more but we had that one meeting and we’ll probably meet again to kind of talk about the ramps and stuff like that so. Carron: We got a chance to talk to some kids out there and they gave us some ideas because it was actually a pretty nice night when we were meeting so. Hoffman: Wasn’t that something? Carron: Yeah, it was gorgeous. They were out there skating around. Hoffman: Three weeks ago. Carron: Three weeks ago so they gave us some good ideas about some stuff to add in the north end of the lot to take consideration of and. Hoffman: Just a cheap rail on that north side would expand the usability of that area. You know it’s all their open space and just a cheap rail to wind back around or grind off of and come back around. We discussed the schedule. The asphalt is not going to work. We’ll do it ourselves. The street project is already out to bid so I think we’ll still be okay on this amount of asphalt that we have proposed up here. We went over all of the existing ramps. Talked about the ones we’re going to save. The ones that are going away and then we talked about some purchasing options. Taking a look at some potential used equipment that would be out there or purchasing new so. Carron: It’s not cheap. Daniel: No. Are any of the committee members, are you guys going to take off and go look at some of the other skate parks locally as well just to kind of get an idea as far as equipment and? Hoffman: We could do that. Quite frankly what you see out there today is going to get replaced with what you see out there today. Just new equipment. Daniel: New version. Hoffman: Yeah, and if we can do that based on the current budget that we have, and that’s what the kids want. It’s a very nice layout but the equipment is, if you would look at it it’s kind of looking at something and you’re saying well what’s wrong with that? Well there’s no under structure left. You can’t screw a sheetrock screw through the skate like and have it hold. It will just, with all the vibration it just pulls right out because of the base material is so rotted so. It’s time. It was a three phase installation. ’99, 2000 and 2003. $15,000 a time. Each time so you have $45,000 in base equipment out there right now. So the budget that they’re working with is $110,000 to asphalt it and buy, replace the ramps that are currently, that’s about where you’re at. If you would look nationally at skate park budgets, they’re doing skate parks for you know a million, a million and a half. Million and three quarter. I think Mound just did one for close to a million. It’s a skate bowl. Concrete skate bowl. Daniel: It’s unbelievable. It is absolutely incredible. 26 Park and Recreation Commission – February 28, 2012 Hoffman: So this budget is pretty modest and I think just getting back the usability of what’s currently there. We send out maintenance crew up there and they’re like Todd, you’re just, you know you’re wasting your time and money and well we don’t have an option at this point. Put down new skate…the best you can so, it pops up pretty quickly. Daniel: Alright. We’ll look forward to a full report next week. Alright, since there’s no other commission member presentations. Todd, anything you want to highlight under the administrative packet? ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. None. Tom Kelly: Before adjournment I would like to maybe suggest that after our meeting in March if maybe we can hang out a little longer or maybe go somewhere to celebrate Elise’s renewal to the commission and thank Jeff for his years of service. Daniel: Well thank you Tom. That would be awesome. th Hoffman: So March 20. th Daniel: March 20. Scharfenberg moved, Cole Kelly seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 27