7 Yard RegulationsCITY OF A
690 COULTER DRIVE · P.O. BOX 147 · CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
- (612) 937-1900 · FAX (612) 937-5739
Action by City Administra:or
MEMORANDUM
TO: Mayor and City Council
FROM: Sharmin A1-Jaff, Planner II
Rejected __--.
Date:
Date Submitted to Commission
Date Submitted to Council
DATE: August 11, 1997
SUB J:
Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Section 20-908. YARD REGULATIONS. (5), to
allow porches to encroach 10 feet into a required front yard setback.
A variance application recently appeared before the Board of Adjustments and Appeals requesting
they be allowed to construct a porch within the required from yard setback. The home was located
in the Carver Beach subdivision, which is an area that predates the zoning ordinance. There were
several reasons for the variance request, however, the reason which prompted this ordinance
amendment proposal dealt with the applicant wishing to define the entrance into their, home.
Mayor Mancino was present at the meeting. Following the meeting, she directed staff to
investigate amending the ordinance to allow and encourage such additions without having to go
through a variance process.
The requested variance was for a porch that exceeded the 3 foot maximum encroachment allowed
by ordinance. It should be noted that there are homes with porches throughout the city. The issue
here is whether or not homes that existed prior to the adoption of the zoning ordinance and want to
add a porch should have to go through the variance process.
All new housing (developed after adoption of the zoning ordinance) which have front porches no
matter the size, have to meet the underlying setback requirements. The intent of this anaendment'is
to address existing homes that want to add a front porch. The purpose of the porch/balcony is to
add architectural interest to older homes that may not have defined entrances.
The current ordinance pertaining to porches states:
Sec. 20-908. Yard regulations
Mayor and City Council
August 11, 1997
Page 2
(5) The following shall not be considered to be obstructions:
"In~o any required front yard, or required side yard adjoining a side street lot line,
cornices, canopies, eaves, or other architectural features may project a distance not
exceeding two (2) feet, six (6) inches; fire escapes may project a distance not
exceeding four (4) feet, six (6) inches; an uncovered stair and necessary landings
may project a distance not to exceed six (6) feet, provided such stair and landing
shall not extend above the entrance floor of the building; bay window, balconies,
open porches and chimneys may project a distance not exceeding three (3) feet;
unenclosed decks and patios may project a distance not exeeed!ng five (5) feet and
shall not be located in a drainage and utility easement. Other canopies may be
permitted by conditional use permit."
Porches that encroach into the required front yard and which were in existence on
February 19, 1987, may be enclosed or completely rebuilt in the same location
provided that any porch that is to be completely rebuilt must have at least a ten-foot
minimum front yard.
Staff researched several home design books. Homes we selected incorporate porches in their
design. It can be assumed that the front yard setback on all those homes was 30 feet, which is the
required setback in the zoning ordinance. We then attempted to add the porch to the front elevation
and see if the majority of these designs can be accommodated in Chanhassen. We also tried to
examine the aesthetics of having a projecting porch face a street. We assumed that these homes
were placed on a 15,000 square foot lot or maybe on a lot that is part of a PUD that has a reduced
area. A builder will attempt to maximize the square footage of a home by pushing the home as
close as possible to the 30 foot front yard setback, place the home, then maximize the size of the
rear yard where most outdoors activities in Chanhassen take place.
The attached designs number 1 - 7, are designs that are permitted ,under the current front porch
standard. The common theme between these designs is that the location of the porch does not
extend beyond the front elevation of the house.
Designs 8 - 20, would exceed the allowed 3 foot front yard encroachment permitted by ordinance.
All these porches are unenclosed, project up to 10 feet beyond the house front elevation, and tend to
define the front entrance of the home. These designs tend to give the impression that the garage is
pushed to the back and hidden from views; allowing a passer by to focus on the livable space of the
structure. We need to point out that designs 8 - 18 do not extend beyond the first level where an
entry is located. Designs 19 and 20, still meet the definition of a porch, however, design 19 extends
up to the second floor, while design 20 contain a porch as well as a balcony. They are both open
structures.
Mayor and City Council
August 11, 1997
Page 3
All these designs can be considered attractive, however, as stated earlier, some of these designs are
not permitted under current ordinances due to setback requirements. The main concern with
allowing such projections deals with the size of the porch and the possibility of additional living
space closer to the street. If the porch extends along the entire length of the front facade, it will be
very tempting to enclose it to make the space more livable by adding screens or enclosing them.
Design #11 has a porch that extends in front of a kitchen. Theoretically, this space could be
enclosed and used as a breakfast area. We believe that such uses should not extend into a required
front yard setback. Rather than creating a setting that would encourage a flood of variances to
enclose porches within a front yard setback, we believe this space should be limited in size
allowing for a small seating area, provide an added architectural feature, and define the entrance of
the home. Staff has prepared an ordinance amendment that would allow some of the attached
designs to be permitted. If the direction was to exclude designs that contain porches extending
beyond the. first floor, then staff will change the language in the proposed amendment accordingly.
Staff is recormnending language that permits homes built prior to February 19, 1987 (zoning
ordinance adoption date) to have a porch/balcony that would encroach into the front yard setback
meeting specific criteria (specifically be open and not exceed 15 feet in length and 10 feet in depth).
PLANNING COMMISSION UPDATE
On July 16, 1997, the Planning Commission reviewed and unanimously recommended denial of
this ordinance amendment. There decision was based upon the following:
There has not been a preponderance of sUCh requests
Limiting the size of the porch and the setback is arbitrary
An intent statement has not been provided
The ordinance does not protect historically significant homes
This issue could be handled at the variance level
Not an important issue to spend staff, Planning Commission and City Council time on
Staff contacted the City Attorney for an opinion on the historically significant homes. He explained
that all homes that are on the National Register listing have to get approval of the National
Historical Registrar's Office prior to any construction taking place; therefore, this ordinance will
not impact such homes. We also discussed homes that have been considered eligible for listing on
the National Register. The City Attorney explained that if a home is not registered with the
National Historical Society, preservation requirements will not apply.
Staff also added an intent statement to clarify the purpose of this ordinance.
RECOMMENDATION:
Mayor and City Council
August 11, 1997
Page 4
Should the City Council decide to approve this ordinance, the following motion is recommended:
"The City Council approves Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Sec. 20-908. Yard regulations, to
read as follows:
"The intent of this section is to allow homes built prior to the adoption of the
ordinance that need to add a porch as an architectural feature to define the entrance
into a residents. This area shall be limited in size allowing for minimal seating area
and shall not be enclosed:
Homes built prior to February 19, 1987 may have open porches and balconies that
project a distance not exceeding ten (10) feet, provided they maintain a minimum
front yard setback of 20 feet, and they do not extend farther than six (6) feet on each
side of the main entrance or front door of a home. The ten (10) feet shall include the
roof line, support columns, and steps. Homes that are on the National Register listing
or have been considered eligible for listing on the National Register shall be excluded
from this ordinance unless approved by the National Historical Registrar's Office."
Attaclunents
Home Designs that include porches.
From elevation design of the variance which prompted this ordinance amendment.
Planning Commission minutes dated July 16, 1997.
J
· This economical plan offers an impressive visual
statement with its comfortable and well-proportioned
appearance. The entrance foyer leads to all areas of the
house. The great room, dining area and kitchen are all
open to one another allowing visual interaction.
The great room and dining area both
have a cathedral ceiling. The fireplace
is flanked by book shelves and cabi-
nets. The master suite has a cathedral
ceiling, walk-in closet and master bath
~rith double-bowl vanityt whirlpool
tub and shower. The plan is available
with a crawl-space foundation.
Design by
Donald A.
Gardner,
Architect, Inc.
,I
I
DECK
Design S9664
Square Footage: 1,287
PORCH
66-4
_JI._JI_JLJLILJLJL
De$ion by
Home Planners,
Inc.
75'-Q'
Design S2§47
SqUare Footage: 1,830
· This charming one-'
story Traditional home
greets visitors with a
covered porch. A galley-
style kitchen shares a
snack bar with the spa-
cious gathering room
where a fireplace is the
focal point, An ample
master suite includes a
luxury bath with whirl-
pool tub and separate
dressing room. Two addi-
tional bedrooms, one that
could double as a study,
are located at the front of
the home.
2
~,~ · ~,~ ,
I
67·
55'
Design S8622
First Floor: 1,820 square feet
Second Floor: 700 square feet
Total: 2,520 square feet
· Expansive interior spaces, a
porch and a patio are found in
this country-style plan. Front-to-
back views begin at the double
doors that open to the foyer and
extend through the dining room
to the covered patio. To the right,
the foyer spreads into the living
room, which opens to a tower.
The pass-through kitchen is
linked to the bayed breakfast area
by a large walk-through pantry. ,.
The family room includes a fire-
place flanked by windows and
built-in shelves; French doors
open to the patio. A lower-level
master bedroom offers private
access to the patio. Its full bath
includes a walk-in closet, double
vanity and spa tub.
Design by
Home Design
Services, inc.
Design S2974 First Floor: 911 square feet
Second Roor: 861 square feet; Total: 1.772 square feet
· Victorian houses are we]! ]~nown for their orientation
on narrow bui]din§ sites. And when this occurs nothin8 is
lost to captivatin§.exterior sty]in§. This house is but 38
feet wide. ][ts narrow width belies the tremendous amount
of ]ivabi]ity £ound inside./~,nd, of course, the ubiquitous'
porch/veranda contributes mishti]y to style as we]] as ]iv-
ability. The efficient, U-shape ]<itchen is flanked by the
informa! brea](fast room and formal dinin§ room. The
rea]' ]ivin8 area is spacious and functions in an excitin8
manner with the outdoor areas. Bonus recreational, hobby
and storase space is offered by the basement and the
attic.
~.~..
..;
Design blt "~'"~:~
Home Planners,
Inc.
Wide-Open and
Convenient
No' 20100'
Stack. ed windows fill the wall 'in the front
bedroom of this one-level home, creating
an attractive facade, and a sunny atmos-
phere inside. Around the corfier, two
more bedrooms and two full baths com-
plet~ She bedroom wing, set apart for
bedtime quiet. Notice the elegant vaulted
ceiling in the master bedroom, the master
tub and shower illuminated by a skylight,
and the double vanities in both baths.
Active areas enjoy a spacious feeling.
Look at the high, sloping ceilings in the
fireplaced living room, the ~liders that
unite the breakfast room and kitchen with
an a'djoining deck, and the vaulted ceil-
ings in the formal dining room off the
foyer.
Main floor m 1,727 sq. ft.
Basement m 1,727 sq. ft.
Garage -- 484 sq. ft.
Inviting Porch Adorns
Affordable Home
No. 90682 -'
You don't have to give up storage space
to build an affordable home. With large
closets just inside the front door and in
ever3~ bexlroo .m, a walk-in pantry by the
kitchen, and an extra-large storage area
tucked behind the garage, you can build
this house on an optional slab foundation
and still keep the clutter to a minimum.
The L-shaped living and dining room
arrangement, brightened by triple win-
dows and sliding glass doors, adds a spa-
cious feeling to active areas. Eat in
formal elegance overlooking the patio, or
hav~ a family meal in the country
kitchen. Tucked in a private wing for a
quiet bedtime 'atmosphere, three bed-
rooms and two full baths complete this
affordable home loaded with amenities.
Living area- 1,160 sq. fti
Garage -- 2-car
66'- 4".
PATIO
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w.~ STORAGE
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,---' """ ,, Design S9607
Square Footage: 1,299
bedroom plan provides all the features
~~ ~~ home. A large central area includes a great
· [~ : .... "' ~ '~ ~ [ ..... room, entrance foyer and kitchen with
; serving and eating counter. Note the use
[(-~d'l~~ ,[ beams, skylights, clerestory windows and
OP ql ~ ~.~'a~,..~]_ .L~....~_~ fireplace in this area· The master suite has
! FO~ !~ whirlpool tub. The second bedroom also
~.~, PORCH ~..~ has an optional fireplace and a full bath.
..,.,.o ~ All rooms open to the rear deck, which
supplies space for a hot tub.
· .~,. ~_ '.. . . . ,
·
~ '~- Design by
Donald A.
Gardner,
Architect, Inc.
FRONT
Design S8614
Square Footage: 2,100
· Gingerbread trim crowns the
roof of this spreading plan,
enhanced by an intricate facade
with high-ceilinged spaces. The
covered porch gives way to a tiled
foyer. Double doors on the right '
open to a den or study with a
twelve-foot ceiling. The splendid
great room sports a tray ceiling,
corner fireplace and French doors
to a covered patio. The pass-
through kitchen serves the front-
facing dining room and bayed
breakfast room with equal ease.
Bedrooms include a master suite
with patio access and a sunken
shower, and two secondary bed-
rooms which share a bath.
Design by
Home Design
Services, Inc.
WIDTH 102'
DEPTH 59'-4"
-F Porch Brel --
, , ::, :~,,~:':';~ ', Ct,. ,>: ~T~~ '~, Entry
Covered Patio
Design S3438
First Roor: 1,489 square feet
Second Floor: 741 square feet
To~al: 2,230 square feet
· Aunique farmhouse plan which provides a
8rand floor plan, this home is comfortable in
country or suburban settings. Formal entertain-
ing areas share first-floor space with family
gathering rooms and work and service areas.
The master suite is also on this floor for con-
'venience and privacy. Upstairs is a §uest bed-
reom, private bath and loft area that makes a
perfect studio. Special features make this a
great place to come home to.
59'-0'
. _ ..,~- ,~,~ ~.~,.~.,~ Planners,
i/
---i
Country-Style For
Today
No. 91700
No doubt about it, this plan, with it's.
wide wrap-around porch, matches the
nostalgic image of a farmhouse.
However, except for the living room,
which can't help but remind us of an
old-fashioned parlor with it's double
doors, this house is thoroughly modem.
High-ceilinged and bright, the kitchen,
nook family room'and dining room
have a free-flowing lay-out and the area
opens onto a wide deck. The first thing
you see, upon entering the home, is the
polished wood of a graceful open
stairwell. At the second floor landing,
it forms an open bridge. Two
bedrooms are tucked away on the
second floor with a full bath. The
kitchen contains both a huge butcher-
block work island and another long
eating bar island. It also features a
large walk-in pantry and built-in desk.
'The master suite has a spa and a huge
'walk-in closet as well as a shower,
double vanities and its own access to
the deck.
First floor-- 1,785 sq. ft.
Second floor-- 621 sq. ft.
Total living area -- 2,406 sq. ft.
No. 91700
SECOND FLOOR
I
BEOROOM
140 x 15t
OPEN TO 8I~..C~V
PLAN
~ BEDROOM
. 14o ~ III
\ . /
.-!
'Deck Surrounds
House on Three Sides
No. 91304
Sitting in the sunken, circular living
room of this elegant family ho. me, you'll
feel like you're outdoors even when
you're not. Windows on four sides com-
bine with a vaulted clerestory for a wide-
open feeling 'ou'll love year-round.
When it's warm, throw open the win-
dows, or relax on the deck.' BUt, when
there's a chill in the air, back-lo-back
fireplaces keep the atmosphere toasty in'
the living room and adjoining great ·
room. Even the convenient kitchen, with
its bay dining nOOk, enjoys a back yard'
view. Do you sew? You'll love this
roomy spot just steps away from the-
kitchen. Bump-out and bay windows.
give the three upstairs bedrooms a cheer-
ful atmosphere, and cozy sitting nooks.
First floor m 1,372 sq. ft.
Second floor-- 858 sq. ft."
.
I
I
I Il
I Il I
Traditional Sun
Catcher
No. 20096
Windows and skylights in all shapes and
sizes give this airy home a cozy feeling.
From the two-story foyer to the skylit
breakfast nook off the island kitchen,
active areas are arranged in an open plan
just perfect for entertaining. In warm
weather, you'll.enjoy the huge rear deck,
accessible from both the living and
breakfast rOOms. Overnight guests will
appreciate the full bath adjoining the
BEDROOM
BEDROOM MASTER
!
"A Karl Kreeger Design
downstairs den. Upstairs, three bedrooms
open to a balcony overlooking the floor
below. Look at the master suite. A walk-
in closet and shower, double vanities,
and a raised,' skylit tub make this spa-
cious area a luxurious retreat.
First floor -- 1,286 sq. ft.
Second floor .--- 957 sq. ft.
Master Suite Crowns
Plan
. ..
N6. 91650
Tradition on the outside, mode~ iuxury
"within. The delicate lattice work that
covers the entry way,/he sheltered
! .. porch and the classic lines all recall a
bygone era of fine craftmanship. The
luxury, that only modem technology
· - can bring, is the iheme throughout.
From the stately vaulted ceiling of the
· foyert up the wide, Winding staircase to
'~ the apartment-sized master suite, we '
i, bring you the finest in modem living.
: The master suite is the heart of this
~home, with dbuble doors, spa and a
gigantic walk-in closet.
Main floor-- 1,288 sq. ft.
I
',
MASTER BED 3
1 f/OX 1710 12/0X 12/0 '
I ~ OPl~' TO
No. 91650
Upper floor-- 1,094 sq. ft.
Bonus room -- 255 sq. ft.
' Total living area -- 2,637 sq. fi.
BONUS '
13/0X 1610
L
GARAGE
2010X2210
. MAIN FLOOR~
, ~
,62"0'
No..9
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porary
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family
breakfa
right, a
featurir
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formal
pact ki!
venient
the two
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private
First 1
Secon
Romance Personified
No. 90439
Here's a stately Victorian that will reflect
your excellent taste, and accommodate.
your family in comfort. A sprawling,
wrap-around porch leads to a central
foyer flanked by formal living and dining
rooms. Informal areas overlook the back-
:yard, including the fireplaced familY
room lined with b6okcases, the sunny
breakfast bay, and the adjoining country
kitchen. Store your extra groceries in the
large pantry on the way t9 the laundry
room. The expansive master suite
upstairs, which spans the width of the ·
house, features built-in shelves, loads of
closet space, and a private bath with
every amenity. A hall bath serves the
other two bedrooms tucked into 'the
,gables at the front of the house.
First floor-- 1,366 sq. ft.
Second floor-- 1,196 sq. ft.
Basement- 1,250 sq. fL
Garage -- 484.sq. ft.
I'm~TE.,EO.OO,~ IT. ~
g .'"""-6 I~=-'-,'1
· . [ · '
-- BEDROOM
BEDROOM
2
13-4 · 13-6 ~
HALL
SECOND FLOOR
No. 90439
'.
.,,,,
WOOD DECK
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~ ~TC.EN '--
t;
Jnviting Porch
.Enlarges ComPact
Home
.No. 10.646
This modified cape with attached two car
garage can house a growing family for '
a bargain price. Double doors in the cozy
living room open to the bay-windowed
family room with fireplace and patio
access. Eat in the family-size kitchen or
formal dining room. Up the central stair-
· way, the vaulted'ceiling in the master
suite creates a spacious feeling. Three
other bedrooms and a bath share the sec-
ond floor.
First floor-- 930 sq. ft.
Seconal'floor -- 980 sq. ft
Basement -- 900 sq. ft.
Garage ~ 484 sq. ft.
$
'- BATH IF'~ to
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No. 20151 ~ )- -~ I/.,,J=:~.,[~
Here's an eleganL move:up home that . ~r J~ ~ f~~ Br
brings the ~st of yesterday to today's ~ 114x1~41 I~t~=~ / ~1 12x15-4
discerning family. Sturdy brick ' ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ '
cons~uction, a towering columnea ~;;r; llllJ
porc~ and a fo~al, central ent~ are '
bedewed elements from long ago. But / ~.~~
the'magnificent island kitchen, the ' I '- s~
Br~ x ~ ~ ~ Bra
convenience of ~th a living room and 12 x 15-4 ]llllg, ~ ~ 15-4 x 16 -
infernal family gathering room, and
the his-and-hers walk-in closets in the lXl
sprawling master suite are high on
many.most-wanted lists. Abundant
windows lend a sunny beauty
throughout this special home. And,
convenient touches abound: a handy
bar in the book-lined living room, a
-covered porch and sun deck at the rear
of the house, two first-floor powder
rooms, and adjoining baths and walk-in
closets in all four upstairs bedrooms.
Second' Floor '"'" "':*
No. 20151
N~
Thi
bed
eve;
mas
an(
rate
brea
firet
decl
First floor ~ 1,953 Sq. ft.
Second floor- 1,865 sq. ft.
Screened porch-- 180 sq. ft.
Basement-- 1;929 sq. ft.
Garage-- 864 sq. ft.
]~]Ld~
Living Rm
19-4 x 22
sec
- Bas
Gm
~ ' 14 x 19.~ r~llllLt
· ' Total living area-- 3,818 sq. ft. ': ~TI m {Jill luP ' Garage
· The exterior of this full two-story is highlighted by
the covered porch and balcony. Many enjoyable hours
will be spent at these outdoor areas, The interior is
highlighted by a spacious country kitchen. Be sure to
notice its island cook-top, fireplace and the beamed
ceiling. A built-in bar is in the family room.
BEDROOM
BEDROOM
160~ 12~
MASTER
Design T162664
1,308 Sq. Ft. - First Floor
1,262 Sq. Ft. - Second Floor; 49,215 Cu. Ft.
Planning Commission M,:eting - July 16, 1997
k. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy fire sprinkler systems.
Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Division #40-1995.
1. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy on labeling of rated fire walls.
Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy g44-1997.
m. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy on fire alarms. Chanhassen Fire
~Department/Fire Prevention Policy #0 I- 1990.
s~a]]s.
Parking lot layout must comply with Building Code requirements for handicap
8. The applicant shall enter into a Site Plan Agreement and provide the necessary financial
.guarantees to comply with the conditions of approval.
9. The applicant shall incorporate an entrance on the west side of the building and consider a
plaza treatment in the rotunda area.
All voted in favor, except Conrad who abstained, and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONSIDER AN AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CODE TO ALLOW PORCHES TO
ENCROACH 10 FEET INTO THE REQUIRED FRONT YARD SETBACK.
Sharmin A1-Jaffpresented the staff report on this item.
Peterson: Has there been a preponderance of these requests?
Al-Jarl: No...
Peterson: Is the Honorable Mayor trying to get more porches in our city? Okay. This is open to
apublic hearing. May I have a motion to open to public hearing and a second please?
Sidney moved, Conrad seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Peterson: Anyone wishing to address the commission, please come forward and state your name
and address please.
Conrad moved, Brooks seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was
~losed.
Peterson: Comments. Kevin.
18
Planning Commission Meeting - July 16, 1997
Joyee: I'm going to wait and see if anybody else has a comment.
~Petea'son: Allison.
~Blackowiak: Well, I'm one of the people that called and talked to Kate the other day and told her
I was confused. I understand what, I believe I understand what is trying to, what we're trying to
do here. I don't know that we necessarily need to limit it to 6 feet on each side of the main
entrance. I looked at the plans that you had attached, for example plan number 12 to me, the
porch that goes much longer than 6 feet however, I think it's wonderful and I think that's the
spirit of the ordinance. I think you want to add interest to homes and I don't know if restricting it
lo 6 feet on either side of the door will allow people to do that. I understand the hopes of not
encouraging people to add room additions, and basically that's what you're I think trying to
:prevent is people adding a large porch. Encroaching into their setback and then at a later date
enclosing it. Ifa porch is narrow enough, I don't think people will be likely to enclose it so
maybe we could look at it from that perspective as opposed to a length perspective. I don't
know, and again I did talk to the Honorable Mayor about this last night and you know, she
explained to me her position. I understand it but if we've only had two requests for variances, I
<lon't know that we really need to get into it at this point. If staff feels strongly that this is
something we need to look at, I think maybe I would like to see it back again and toy a little bit
more with what you're trying to accomplish in terms of maybe an elongated porch or something.
Maybe don'! limit it to the 15 feet, or something like that and I don't know what it is I guess right
x~ow but.
Aanenson: What you're...trying to develop... Anybody that comes in under new construction
certainly the front porch...and anybody coming in today... The issue is when you have an
existing home that now wants to put a porch on and they want to encroach. Do we have to go
through the permitting process of going through a variance? ...but again, we want to encourage
architectural... What we are concerned about is up front space and then.., which is good.
Blackowiak: Oh definitely. I agree with that and I think maybe an intent statement would help
because we don't want to dissuade people from improving their homes and adding things but at
the same time I understand the need to maintain setbacks and at least get a handle on that so, so
~that's it. .
Pa~mLuAnm
:Sidney:. I looked at this and the first question I asked is...how many of these requests for
'variances have we had? Two. So I think to me it seems like pretty much a non-issue in some
ways. We're not getting a lot of requests for them. I do see Allison's point because that was one
Iking that I thought might be nice is if you would be able to put a porch all the way across the
laouse to add some interest to the house, but then I can understand staff's position that it much
encourage people to eventually enclose it and use it as living space. So I guess after thinking
about this I feel as a first step...to include existing homes, that this was a good start. I guess I
xvould understand this would be smaller homes on smaller lots and you really may not want to
have this...porches in the front anyway. It's more of an entrance to protect from snow and wind
19
Planning Commission Meeting - July 16, 1997
and rain. And so I think the way it's written I don't understand the 6 feet part but...it appears in
this formula, I agree with staff. What I'm hearing is go back to the intent statement, what do we
write? ...an example here of newer architecture and I guess I don't see that...so I think what
we're trying to do is just provide people with a mechanism to create a better entrance to their "
home. Not necessarily expand it with a porch...
Peterson: Thank you. Ladd.
Conrad: Oh I don't think it's a real important issue and I'd rather not have staff spend a lot of
time on this. So an intent statement is appropriate and let's get out of there and pass it on.
Peterson: Great, thanks. 'Alyson.
Brooks: My only concern is that if you have an older home that is historically significant that is
without a porch, that is not something we want to be adding porches to. We need to be really
careful of that. One of the worse things I've seen are those great Chaska brick houses with like a
wood lean to on it for a porch. I mean that, it completely destroys the historic visual character of
the property. So I would, if we are going to pass an ordinance like this, I think we need some
kind of clause about the houses in Chanhassen that have obtained National Register listing; or
Ihat have been considered eligible for listing on the National Registe? and monitor putting
porches on historic properties. So I guess before I would pass this I would ask that maybe we
consider adding something about historic properties.
Peterson: Okay, thank you. I don't want to spend a lot of staff's time either. That was my first
reaction. I understand if there was a lot of these, that we take the staff time and commissioners
and Council's time to address this. I don't see that obviously as happening .... because we have
an ordinance, you're always going to have another variance so my reaction is I don't think we
need an ordinance for this slight adjustment that we're making. With that, is there a motion and
a second?
Conrad: I would make the motion that the Planning staff recommends, well let me think about
this. I take back my start of the motion Mr. Chairman. If somebody has...consider it.
Peterson: So I ask for a motion again please.
Brooks: I move that we table the motion pending further consideration of it's affect to historic
properties. And I want to use Alison's, some of Alison's concerns but I can't. I'm stumped.
Conrad: The only other thing was an intent statement.
Brooks: Oh, and with the addition of an intent statement. Statement of intent. Want me to say
that again with a complete sentence?
Peterson: I think they can sort that through. Is there a second to that motion?
/
Planning Commission Meeting - ..,ly 16, 1997
Blackowiak: I'll second that.
l'eterson: Any discussion?
Coma& Yes. Mr. Chairman, you would rather not see this back.
Petersom Correct.
Conrad: Staff, how much time do you think you'd have to spend on this based on the motion you
j~st heard? Couple hours?
.P, anenson: Probably.
Conrad: Do you two agree with this amendment?
Aanenson: I agree with Craig. I don't think it...
Conrad: And did the Board of Adjustments, did they grant this variance? Did they? Just a
comment. I think it's a well worded amendment. It's very simple. As arbitrary, it seems simple
lo m~.
./~anenson: But as Alison had said, is 6 feet the right amount? ...do you just raise the level...I'm
not sure there's a right answer... There's a lot of homes that have landings... Is that the right
mount? ...I mean it was an arbitrary number back then...well thanks for the 5 but I need.. ~
Peterson: Any further discussion?
'Brooks moved, Blaekowiak seconded to table the amendment to City Code to allow porches
'to encroach 10 feet into the required front yard setback for further consideration to
historic properties and a statement of intent. Brooks, Blackowiak and Sidney voted in
favor. Conrad, Joyce and Peterson voted in opposition. The motion failed with a tie vote
.of3 to 3.
Brooks: Well Ladd, what do you want to do then?
Conrad: I think.
Sidney: Just leave it.
Brooks: Do you want to pass it as it is?
Conrad: No. No. I think we kill it. I think we kill it.
Brooks: Kill it.. Oh, okay. Well that will save my historic properties then. So that works.
21
Planning Commission ~...~eting - July 16, 1997
Conrad: I would recommend that the Planning Commission tums down. I would recommend
the Planning Commission recommends dis.approval of the zoning ordinance amendment 20-908
regarding yard regulations per the staff report of July 16th.
Joyce: I'll second that.
Peterson: Any discussion?
Conrad moved, Joyce seconded that the Planning Commission recommends denial of an
amendment to the City Code to allow porches to encroach 10 feet into the required front
yard setback. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Conrad: And the rationale for the City Council is that we don't see the need or the accuracy of
the, if we don't see the need of an amendment at this time, and that we feel that the variance
process can handle the few requests that we're receiving.
Peterson: Okay, thank you.
OLD BUSINESS:
Peterson: Any old business Kate?
Aanenson: No.
Joyce: Any comment on this Kate?
Aanenson: The Council directed you to...trail. The issue that we had whether or not identified a
trail out in...hadn't been identified to the potential buyers. The attorney did state that you'd have
to have the underlying property owner's approval and he, Mr. Carlson...but regardless of where
you stop the trail, going north to Lake Lucy, you're able to get over to Minnewashta, that would
be a benefit... What we are...trail, Council wanted to see how that relates, if there's a tie in
continuity...before it comes back for final plat. That was one item that was on the Council's...
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Joyce moved to note the Minutes of the Planning Commission
meeting dated June 18, 1997 as presented.
ONGOING ITEMS:
Aanenson: Back to me now?
Peterson: Ongoing items.
Conrad: We thought you were thinking.
22