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PRC 2012 08 28 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 28, 2012 There was a Ribbon Cutting/Grand Opening celebration for the new disc golf course prior to the regular Park and Recreation Commission meeting. Chairman Cole Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Steve Scharfenberg, Tom Kelly, Cole Kelly, Elise Ryan, Brent Carron, Peter Aldritt, and Jim Boettcher STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Mitch Johnson, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF AGENDA. Tom Kelly: I do have one additional. I was wondering if staff could talk a little bit about the vote last night at City Council and potentially talk about that before we get to old business because it might affect our discussions in old business. Cole Kelly: Okay. So add that to new business. Hoffman: 2B. Scharfenberg: And I’d also like an update on the skate park. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS. Cole Kelly: Okay. Doesn’t look like we have any public announcements tonight. Hoffman: Just one. We would like to announce that the four tennis courts that were rehabilitated this summer. Two of them opened on Friday and the other two opened yesterday and those are at North Lotus Lake, South Lotus Lake parks, Meadow Green Park, and Lake Susan Park. Those courts were out for just about…and they’re be back up and running and the public’s very happy. They’re looking forward to the courts. Took quite a few calls from people that were playing in another location and asking about when their court’s going to be back open so it’s good… VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Cole Kelly: Are there any changes to the Minutes? Carron: I’ll make a motion to approve the Minutes. Cole Kelly: I noticed one change we should probably make on the first page. When I welcomed Jim to the Board they’ve got Tom Kelly responding. Tom Kelly: I welcomed him. Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Cole Kelly: I mean we’d all like Tom to speak for all of us but I think it was Jim who said thank you. Boettcher: Yes. It was understood. Cole Kelly: Other than that. Carron: With that change I’ll make a motion to approve the minutes. Cole Kelly: Second? Scharfenberg: Second. Carron moved, Scharfenberg seconded to approve the verbatim and summary minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated July 24, 2012 as amended. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. TH DEVELOPMENT PLAN REVIEW; LAKESIDE 7 ADDITION. Cole Kelly: Todd, it looks like we’ve got something going on with hooking up to the trail system. th Lakeside 7 Addition. th Hoffman: Mr. Chair, members of the commission, tonight we’ll take a look at Lakeside 7 Addition. Review the park and trail conditions of approval that are associated with that original plat. So this is the th 7 Addition. It’s dealing with the far northern portion of the plat in the green. The remainder of the housing development is moving forward and this is really the last chunk of land that remains within the subdivision to be developed. Tonight we have a proposed motion that the Park and Recreation th Commission recommends the City Council confirm and approve the following conditions for Lakeside 7 Addition. They have to do with parks and trails. First that the developer shall pay $78,600 in park th dedication fees for the 7 Addition, and that’s concurrent with or prior to the recording of the final plat. That is in lieu of any parkland dedication or donation. Second that the commission recommends a sidewalk south of Lot 7, in that location on this plan is here. So this sidewalk connector to the new Eden Prairie trail. This is the Bearpath trail. That that sidewalk connector connect from the Lakeside area to the newly installed Eden Prairie trail as depicted in the applicant’s plans shall be installed concurrent with development of Block 4 units and a 15 foot wide public walkway easement centered on that newly installed sidewalk be dedicated to the City. So that will provide convenient internal access for the neighbors to the new trail system that goes under Highway 212. Those conditions of approval are consistent with what was recommended in the first phase and so staff will be happy to answer any questions that the commission has about this development in general or anything specific to those two conditions and then we’ll ask for a recommendation from the commission to the council. Cole Kelly: Questions for Todd. Ryan: Just to clarify this is the one right off, right by Lake Riley that we saw on our tour? Hoffman: Correct. It’s the last development on Lake Riley, well on our side on Lyman Boulevard before you hit Eden Prairie. The Eden Prairie border, this is Bearpath and the Eden Prairie border is here. This is Lake Riley and then Lyman Boulevard which turns into Lake Riley Boulevard over here. Like other housing developments this one is coming back in the market and so they’re moving forward to develop and plat additional lots because sales are on the upswing. 2 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Cole Kelly: Any other questions for Todd? Scharfenberg: So Todd when you say sidewalk will it be cement or will it be asphalt? Hoffman: It will be cement and it may actually end up to be a stairway connector in lieu of a sidewalk but they’re running into, you can see it. Proposed in at least this design to be retaining wall and then this unit would be down much lower than the trail so your first plan they sent into our engineering division, the engineering division reviews these sidewalk connectors and our planning division. The trail, or the sidewalk would have been elevated very high and then fenced because the walls would be higher than 4 feet and so instead of building this pedestaled sidewalk, they’re taking a look at a stairway connector so you would walk back a portion on a sidewalk and then do a short stairway up to the trail itself. Scharfenberg: Any problems with the developer with this? Hoffman: They’re on board. There has been some citizen comment. A couple of the folks called and said we would just as soon not have that connection. I said well it’s in the development contract currently. You would have to ask the developer to amend. Ask the council to amend that development contract to delete that and/or come to the park board meeting or to the council to make that request. Scharfenberg: Did we ever look, Todd was there any indication at the very end of that, what I’ll call a cul-de-sac or that last driveway area, kind of going behind there and coming in? Was that ever an option that they looked at or? Hoffman: They did look at it. You could probably get it without a stairway but it starts to really kind of be a wrap around condition and kind of takes this property into a sense where they have a trail on two sides at least and then it’s just so far to dead end that they didn’t think anybody would find it. This is on a public, or not a public street. These are private streets but at least it’s out in the open where people can recognize it and see it. They did look at that however. This changed. Originally this was going to be an apartment building and there was a lot more room here to make this connection. You could have graded it out. Now with this modification, they’re really matching the market now so there’s not a market for the apartments but there’s a market for these twins and quads and triples so that’s what they’re requesting as a site plan amendment. So that squeezes down this and changes how that connection can be made. Cole Kelly: So Todd we have fees coming in from, of $78,600 which come into the CIP and then they’re building the connector. Hoffman: Correct. As a condition of their approval. Cole Kelly: That’s a condition of. Hoffman: Their cost. Cole Kelly: Their cost so we don’t have any, okay. Carron: So then it says the applicant shall be reimbursed for the actual cost of construction materials for the Lyman Boulevard trail. What does that consist of? Hoffman: That was the original, so how developments work. Those stairway connectors, those are all on the development but when they’re building a section of the comprehensive plan, which they did down here, the comprehensive trail plan. So this, they built this section and we paid them back for the cost of the rock and the asphalt for this section of trail and it goes here and then it crosses over. Or no, it’s all on 3 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 the same side. And so they built that section in the first or second phase. We paid them for the rock and the asphalt. This is simply a stairway connector on the back side, so this, that goes back to the original plat. The original conditions of approval. And that’s typical of how we handle that. So if you have 100 acres coming in and there’s a section of the comprehensive trail plan that goes through it, we’re asking the developer to up front the cost of some grading, some planning. You know work it into the development. Build it and then we’ll pay you back for the cost of materials and the asphalt, we don’t think you should bear the whole cost but these trail connectors or stairway connectors, that’s back on the development itself. That’s an improvement that benefits your residents primarily and you’re connecting into the comp plan system. In this case it’s the Eden Prairie’s comp plan trail system but we’re also involved in that planning because it’s going to connect in with our trail system to the north. Cole Kelly: Any other questions for Todd? Clarifications or changes? Someone like to make a motion? th Scharfenberg: I’ll make a motion to approve staff’s recommendation for the conditions for Lakeside 7 Addition. Cole Kelly: Second? Boettcher: Second. Scharfenberg moved, Boettcher seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends th that the City Council confirm and approve the following conditions for Lakeside 7 Addition: th 1. The developer shall pay $78,600 in park dedication fees for the 7 Addition concurrent with or prior to recording the final plat in lieu of any parkland dedication or donation. 2. The sidewalk south of Lot 7, Block 4 connecting the Lakeside area to the newly installed Eden Prairie trail, as depicted in the applicant’s plans, shall be installed concurrent with development of the Block 4 units and a 15 foot wide public walkway easement centered on this newly installed sidewalk be dedicated to the City. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. Cole Kelly: Okay, and I think we’ve added, Steve wanted to talk about the vote last night of the City Council Todd. REVIEW CITY COUNCIL VOTE ON TH 41 STAIRWAY CONNECTOR AND TRAIL PROJECT. Hoffman: Commissioner Kelly and members of the commission, last night the City Council was presented with a recommendation to approve the bid from Midwest Asphalt for the stairway connector and the trail improvements and then the pedestrian crossing at Highway 41. There was conversation between staff and the council. Mike McGarvey, the consulting engineer from SRF was here. We really moved it, that was a work session night for the council so that was their budget work session night and then we wanted to get the bid award in so they scheduled that single item. The council recessed from their work session into this room, the council chambers and took up that item. Lots of discussion about the particular item. Similar to some of the discussion that took place at this body and that was really the north side of the project was where most of the interest was and then the stairway and just the cost of the stairway. It ended up to be estimated in total about $110,000 by the time you added in the stairway itself, the insulation for the watermain that’s underneath the stairway and then some other incidental costs. So it’s not that the council wasn’t interested in the project overall but since it was bid as a unit there was no 4 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 way to award parts of the project and not other parts so the council’s action was to reject all bids. That passed on a 4 to 1 vote and so all bids were rejected. Then they made a second motion to have staff separate the project into the north half and then have the stairway as an add alternate or a deduct alternate. Would be an add alternate under that project or it would be, yeah a deduct alternate if we would take it off, so and then bring that back to council for consideration and direction so staff will prepare those documents. That would be a second bid with the north half of the project consisting of the trail from the entrance to the school to Chaska Road, the pedestrian crossing to the west, the safe island median in the center, the flashing beacon signal and then the second half would be the deduct alternate to deduct the stairs or add the stairs, whichever way we would bid it. I guess it would be an add alternate if we want to add those stairs. Cole Kelly: So Todd to just go through it I think initially what were we looking at, $205,000 on it and then it came back at $295,000, is that what? Hoffman: Correct. And it was even lower than a $205,000 at one point but the $205,000 did not include the flashing beacon or the insulation and so the insulation was about $18,000 and the flashing beacon was 30, estimated at $34,000 so those two costs, the council added in the flashing beacon at a work session and then the city engineer added in the insulation for the, those two costs elevated the cost of the project. The engineer’s estimate for that insulation was way off of what the bid was so that was about $2,500. So that brought us up to the engineer’s estimate in that $250,000 range and the bids were at that $293,000 and so that was the difference and the difference in the bid between the bid, the actual bid and the estimated cost was the stairway and the insulation made up that entire difference so there was an elevation on the stairway cost of just over $20,000 and then an elevation on the insulation of 16 some thousand. Tom Kelly: Is this a 2 week rework for new bids or is this going to be a lengthy rework process? Hoffman: No, reworking the bids won’t take any time at all and then it’s just when the council would want to take a look at the project again and what direction they afford staff at that time. So we’ll turn this around at 30 days or less probably and then it’s, up to that point it’s up to the city manager to put it back on their agenda. Scharfenberg: So where does that put this whole project in terms of the trail? Is any of that going to be built this year? Hoffman: It may not be. Right now we don’t know what will happen. Cole Kelly: I think in last month’s notes I noticed that the, we expected a $50,000 contribution from the school district of Minnetonka and you have since told me that that is not going to happen. Hoffman: Likely it won’t happen. My conversation was with their finance director and he was really positive about the project. Since that time he has talked to additional administrative folks at the district and they were a little bit more lukewarm to the contribution. Todd Gerhardt, our City Manager is still in conversations with the superintendent and so, but this will also give us the time to start, continue that conversation about that potential funding. The school district was involved in the application for a grant for that flashing beacon system and so the City and the School District jointly applied for a grant for that. That grant was not successful and so we were hoping that they would be approachable on this contribution at a $50,000 level for you know a $250,000 or $300,000 project. Cole Kelly: So if the school district of Minnetonka is out, and of course you said we’re still in discussions, what does the City feel about the beacons from a liability standpoint? 5 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: There’s been conversation on that and I guess no reason for the park and rec commission not to talk about that as well. We have received approval from MnDOT for that flashing beacon so if you walk up as a pedestrian and you press a button, those flashing beacons are going to come on. Whether or not you consider that then a safe crossing at a 50 mile an hour zone, that’s still up to you as a pedestrian and so how drivers respond to those flashing beacons is not, you know not a 100% given. The one thing if the beacons are installed and do cause confusion on either the behalf of a pedestrian or driver, they can simply be turned off but MnDOT has approved the application and they have approved the design and the installation of that rapid flashing beacon system. The caution I guess is just that we don’t want a pedestrian to walk up, press the button and just start walking or biking into the crosswalk thinking that that flashing, rapid flashing beacon system is automatically going to make the traffic stop on Highway 41. Cole Kelly: So the $205,000 that was in the budget for this year right? 2012 which the budget we’re looking at going forward is 2013 so what, are we looking to come to some kind of resolution to pass onto the City Council tonight or by our next meeting? Hoffman: That’s really up to the commission. If you want to formulate some sort of a recommendation that you continue to support the project. At this point the project still lies with the City Council. They would certainly welcome any kind of additional information I think from the Park and Recreation Commission but I don’t have direction to bring this item back to the Park and Recreation Commission at this time so that would be up to the commission to send additional information to the council if you choose. Cole Kelly: Okay, so what we’re looking at is $88,000 more than was in the budget and that is probably one of the big reasons why the City Council tabled it for the moment. And so I ask the commission, do we want to tackle this item tonight? Questions, comments. Tom Kelly: I’m not sure what we would be, I mean if the contract is coming back with separate bids I’m not sure what information we’d have to make any type of a motion until those bids are in. Cole Kelly: You’ve got a point there. However I would expect that the bids will come in separately at $293,000 when you add them up so, and they might be shaved a little bit but not much because the costs are the costs. You know and maybe Brent can weigh in and tell us more that they can shave more than that but, so is this something we want to talk about tonight or do we want to have Todd put it on the schedule for next time? Or do we want to discuss it while we’re going through the CIP? And maybe that’s the time, when we’re doing all the numbers together is while we’re going through the CIP. Add this on as another discussion point because if this project goes through our CIP is now $88,000 less than it was before. Hoffman: And that may be appropriate. There is a significant item in your CIP that we will be recommending that you reduce and bring that project in-house. The Rice Marsh trail to complete that project in-house so that will be part of the conversation on item 3. Carron: I think just City Council rejected all bids. The process to get new bids, advertising, a couple weeks, approval then a couple weeks. You’re pushing into late season. Concrete, it’s and for this to be done this year I think is going to be pretty tough I think. Not with this delay so it would go into 2013 if it was going to be bid this year, it would probably start next year so I think we should just add it to the 2013 and kind of come up with a figure what we want to use. Stick with the 300 or. My personal opinion I think you should use that bid so 300 is probably a pretty good. Cole Kelly: Right. I think that’s a good idea. We’ll just throw it into 2013 because that’s, I don’t know can it still be done this year if the council decides to move on the bids Todd? 6 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: Probably not the work. Cole Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: It could be bid this year for a spring start. Cole Kelly: So I think that’s a good idea. We’ll just move that into the CIP discussion for 2013. Scharfenberg: Todd was the discussion last night with council, was council opposed or members of the council opposed to the whole stairway project given the cost of that item? Hoffman: I think the opposition was the cost versus the perceived benefit. Tom Kelly: That would be the only issue I can see this commission talking about tonight is given the cost of about $110,000 for a staircase do we still as a commission support that as part of the bid. I think that’s the probably only item that maybe we could discuss if you wanted to. Cole Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: The Mayor was the lone supporting vote of moving forward on the project. Cole Kelly: Do we need to make a motion to add it to the CIP or can we just add it into the discussion? Hoffman: We’ll just add it there. Cole Kelly: Okay. We’ll add that into our CIP discussions and we can break it into the two parts as Tom recommended so good ideas Brent and Tom. So then the next thing on the agenda is update on the skate park. UPDATE ON SKATE PARK RECONSTRUCTION. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Kelly and members of the commission. The skate park is progressing. The rejuvenation project is progressing very nicely. We went out and took a look. Brent and I took a look at the asphalt that was put down last Wednesday and so on move out day we closed that park down and the kids took their last snapshots on their phones and out went the equipment so all the equipment, with the exception of the two pieces that are coming back in, were cut up and disposed and recycled the materials that we could recycle. Then we started cleaning and removing the last of the fixtures that needed to removed from the skate park. All the wire fencing. The boards in the bottom of the hockey rink so we could pave right through the entire 200 by 200 foot section up there at the skate park so, and it’s a little bit more when you add in the center. So that happened. Then we cleaned it and the asphalt came on Wednesday. It was in and done in one day so we started on Wednesday morning and they were complete by Wednesday night and now it’s setting up and aging and our schedule for the install starts on September thth 10. So Monday morning, September 10 the folks from the ramp system will be here installing that. They think they can get it done in a week and that’s a conversation we can probably have this evening as nd well. Currently we’re scheduled for grand opening on September 22 and if they’ll confirm that they can get it done in a week we could have that grand opening and really advertise it as an early opening if the th commission chooses on the 15. So once we get confirmation that they’re going to get it done in 5 days, it’s either that or have an opening early and then have a grand opening a week later. Just kind of depends on what kind of an impact you want to have at the grand opening. So we’re all, no snafu’s other than we had a little bit of a grade issue on some grade set we fixed out for drainage and then on the first rink and 7 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 then after that everything progressed nicely. Ramps are ready to come here. The kids are getting excited. They take pictures of everything. They take pictures of new asphalt. They take pictures of asphalt going down. They just can’t believe that new ramps are on their way. Cole Kelly: So who chaired the skate ramp deal? Scharfenberg: Brent, Peter and I did. Cole Kelly: Okay, so what would you guys like for a grand opening? It looks like, especially with kids you pretty much got to do it on a Saturday. Hoffman: Yeah we’re thinking Saturday at 11:00 so just before lunch. Carron: I think we do it, if they can finish early, my personal opinion, let’s get it done because kids are going to be all over it and it’d be kind of cool to have it like the first wheels on the ramps. th Cole Kelly: So I think it’s a good idea. I will be out of town on the 15 but I was not on that committee so I don’t think that that’s big of a deal. If everybody’s in agreement, we want to do the skate park on the th 15 at 11:00. Ryan: I am also out of town but… Hoffman: And this will be, if you choose to do that it will be based on their guarantee that they can get it done. They want to get it done. You know they’re traveling. They’re on the road. They don’t want to stay over so they’ll work late. These guys work 6:00 to 6:00, 6:00 to 8:00 when they’re building these ramps. th Cole Kelly: Well I think if the 3 members of the committee can be there on the 15 and want to do it we th should do it. Okay. It’s on the 15 for 11:00. Ryan: Todd, how early will you send out the invitation because what happens if there’s rain delays or? Hoffman: Once we send them it’s on so we open. Ryan: Okay, so do we want, do you guys want to allow for any lag time in terms of you know trying to crush it in 5 days and then have the opening or? I mean it’s you know, things happen so unless they work through the rain and. Hoffman: Yeah it’s going to take their guarantee that they want to do it and if they’re not interested in pushing, if we, once we advertise we’re on. It’s going to be open. There’s lights up there. They can work at night. Ryan: Just throwing that out there. Hoffman: Yeah, there’s a minor risk in there but there’s a reward as well, like you say. If it’s finished on Friday afternoon and we just shut it up tight and roll out the first kids at 11:00 and it can be a pretty exciting event. You’d have a big crowd there for opening day versus if you let them skate on it for a week because there’s no way to keep them off once it’s done. Ryan: Right. I hear you. Just an option. 8 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: Okay, thank you. Cole Kelly: Any other new business before we move on? Okay, we’re moving on to old business which is to go through the CIP. APPROVE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL 2013-2017 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Cole Kelly: I think Todd has new information for us on part of the CIP so we might as well start with that. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Kelly, members of the commission. Just one item, on the proposed motion that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the City Council approve a 2013 to 2017 park and trail acquisition and development CIP totaling $1,765,000. There’s one item that we took a second look at. The City Manager, the engineer. City Engineer. We sat down. We took a look at the Rice Marsh Lake trail and when we put that at $400,000 we estimated that as, you know a project where we go ahead and establish a set of plans. Put it out to bid and our recommendation is that we do that project, we accomplish it in-house and we think we can cut that cost in half so there’s, it’s a good project to do in- house because it’s not on a roadway. It’s not on a street. It’s you know all within a confines of a large, wooded open area and we have the ability, the machinery to make that happen. We would sub out the rock installation. The rock and then we would pave it ourselves with our city crew. So that gives you the flexibility of a number that’s half of the $400,000. And then also if you want to advance that into 2013, staff would support that. We have the time and the ability to make that project happen. As long as we get that access point on the Klingelhutz property and this whole side. I just met with John Knoblauch who is that, currently has a purchase agreement on this property and he wants to make it happen but he needs a sewer easement to come around that corner and that is something that we’ll help them work on and so the sewer easement would come around, right along with the trail on the Rice Marsh Lake side of their property and, I don’t know if you can pull, can you pull up the map? No? Okay. So that, if we have that access then we can build that. So that number, that total number would then be moved down to $1,565,000 to complete or initiate these 10 projects. The ones listed and so that’s the recommendation. And how you want to treat the Highway 41 project. Currently you could just leave it as is. It was in the 2012. It’s currently in there. The council is obviously ultimately in charge of if they spend the money and how much they spend. Your recommendation I think, you know I think it would be a 2013 item at this point so you’re certainly free to make a recommendation on what you feel that that dollar amount should be for that particular project as well. Tom Kelly: From a practical point of view can city staff work on those four big projects in 2013 if you move Rice Marsh to 2013 and assuming that that Highway 41 happens that year as well? That would give you four, those two projects plus the two park developments. There’s no concern of having all four of those going on pretty much within the same 3 to 4 month window? Hoffman: 2013 would be a great year. It’s the years after that I would be worried about. It’s really hard when you don’t have work. When you have work life’s good. Yeah, we could certainly accomplish all those projects. And the trail through the woods, the Rice Marsh Lake trail, you know half of it is already set and ready to go. It’s out there on a sewer line easement right now and the second half, the State of Minnesota has already said they’ll grant us a Limited Use Permit to put this trail through there so what we’ll do is go ahead and survey that easement. Get that over to MnDOT. Get them to sign off on that LUP. Then we work on the access, the construction access and if John Klingelhutz doesn’t sell his property we’ll simply work with him to get a temporary construction access through there. It’ll be some costs involved with that but we would just go down the same road alignment that’s proposed to be built as a part of an eventual development. Get an access in there. Get it built. And then if when we’re in there 9 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 we dig this section of sewer line in, now it’s ready to go. It’s you know hook-up ready and that’s what this, that’s what Mr. Knoblauch is worried about is right now it’s not hook-up ready. He can build a road and a sewer and houses but if he can’t get through the State of Minnesota’s land to connect up to a city sewer line then he has an issue so if we work with the State on that on behalf of this development it helps the eventual developer. It helps the City of Chanhassen get this trail project in so. That’s the current status of the planning on that project. It’s worked, once we staked it we would hire a clear and grub crew. You just can’t do that yourself at the rate that they can do it. The expense. It’s very economical to buy a clear and grub crew. Then we would move in. Do the sub-base excavation and then hire a company to haul in the rock for the trail. Rock it and then we would pave it. We would do the compaction and pave it and then restore the sides and open up the trail. Well we’d wait for Eden Prairie. At that point then, there’s still a negotiation or a planning, you know once we hit Eden Prairie what are we going to do at that point? Are they ready to go? Would we just continue it and they pay us back? Do they want to take the project from there so, because there’s one more short section. If we pave it to the city, nobody’s going to care. They’re just going to run across the field. It’s almost within sight. You know you can see the bridge so whether they pave it or not there’s going to be a dirt trail up there and then at that point, Eden Prairie has said once you get to our border we’ll finish and so we would have to start those conversations. Scharfenberg: Todd there’s a lot of, at least with the Eden Prairie section of the trail, there’s quite a bit of block and stuff that they did. Would that be, would the lay of the land there, is there going to be, will we have issues with that? Hoffman: Almost zero. I don’t think there’s any retaining wall in this project. There’s a few culvert crossings for water and beyond that, the greatest costs are going to be in rock and asphalt. There are no other additional costs. When we first started taking a look at this the State wanted 1.2 million 5 for the land and we obviously weren’t in a position to buy the land for 1.25 million and then put a trail in there and so we asked the question, will you just grant us an easement and they said yes. So I think we’re in a great position there. There will be, if you put this in 2013 the other thing that will kick in is we’ll immediately start some planning, and if the council approves it for some neighborhood meetings. There’s still some descent that you know some folks are going to be unhappy about this trail going through. Tigua Lane, the back yards. Some of those houses have been there since the mid 60’s or the early 60’s. I had a conversation a few weeks ago with a couple that just had bought, purchased a new house in there and then after they purchased it walked through the back yard and realized this thing looks like a trail and so they called City Hall and they said well we would prefer not to have the trail and so I said well there’ll be planning meetings coming up but yeah, we are currently planning to install the trail. So there are going to be people that stand up in that neighborhood and said we don’t want this project. You can almost guarantee it. If not they’ll send you a letter or an email. Cole Kelly: So when the State grants and easement is it for 10 years? 20 years? Hoffman: Right now they’re about 20 years a Limited Use Permit. They’re kind of fluctuating. They’re moving that target around. I don’t see this going away. Once the Klingelhutz property is development there’s no access to these wooded properties. They would stay as excess right-of-way owned by MnDOT. At some point in the future they might decide to give those back to the City for you know, because somebody’s going to have to manage that wood lot. Trees are going to fall on the highway fence and trees are going to fall on the trail. Anything that impacts the trail we’ll clear out but beyond that any larger issues, if you get into larger natural resource issues or water issues, and if somebody keeps calling the State and saying hey, you’ve got this property to maintain, they would just as soon have it in the City’s possession I think in the long term, but in the short term they said they would grant these easements. 10 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Cole Kelly: So if they grant it for 20 years then they couldn’t do anything else with it? Hoffman: They can. They could stop, well yeah. Go ahead, finish your question. Cole Kelly: No, I finished. If they finished, if we did it for 20 years they couldn’t stop us from using our trail for at least 20 years. Hoffman: No, they can take it away at any time. Cole Kelly: They can. Hoffman: It’s a Limited Use Permit but again, now you’re into politics. As long as they’re not going to you know, we don’t see a risk. I don’t think they have forecast at a risk that this is going to go back. They’re not planning on doing a major project there, another highway extension. You need to go back and take a look at the properties that we talked about. This parcel is, this parcel is why that, one of the two remnant parcels is up there. So this property extended all the way up to the north to Rice Marsh Lake and then the neighboring property did the same. Those are the two wood lots north of 212 that we’re talking about. So when the highway came and said, landowner we need to buy a right-of-way for the road, and landowner we need to buy right-of-way for Highway 212, we would just like to buy this section. These landowners and their attorneys say well you just can’t buy that section. You’ve landlocked this chunk of property. We can’t get access to it. You need to buy not only the road but all of this landlocked property as well. The State concurred. They buy all of that. They buy all this. They build a road. Now you have excess right-of-way sitting up here. It’s in our comp plan, the City’s comp plan as open space and so that’s why we pursued the acquisition of those properties. This one’s a million. This one’s $250,000 and so it’s not something we’re looking to purchase but if they give us access to the property we build the trail. The trail generally comes right through the Eden Prairie line and then their bridge is sitting just right over here so they’ve got one, this is the open field. If you drive down Highway 212, as you’re looking to your right, this is the wood line so this is all wooded on both sides. These are all wooded and this is the open field. Once you hit the open field, which was the old corn field, that’s Eden Prairie. Cole Kelly: So it’s probably quite likely that after the trail’s been established that at some point the State is going to say we don’t want to deal with the property. We’re just going to give it to the City of Chanhassen. Hoffman: That’s what I would forecast and that might take 20 years. It might take 10 years. It might take 50 years but, or it could stay in the State. There’s a lot of weird things like that where there’s excess right-of-way that stay a long time. Cole Kelly: Well I think, thank you Todd. I think moving on we should just kind of take the CIP piece by piece. I mean we know a few things that are going to be in the CIP for 2013, and maybe I’m wrong but I think we’re pretty much in agreement that the Pioneer Pass and the Riley Ridge will happen in 2013 so I don’t know if we need to discuss those. Are there any questions or comments or should we move on to other parts? Tom Kelly: I just want to make sure that the dirt, the clay or whatever is still scheduled to be pulled off that piece of property so we can develop that next year. Hoffman: Yes. Commissioner Kelly, Ryland was sent a letter under the City Manager’s signature saying th that if they weren’t done by August 27, which was yesterday, that we would draw down on their letter of credit and complete the work ourselves. That got their attention. It got their bank’s attention and so they 11 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 completed the work in a timely fashion following receipt of that letter and the site is now fully graded. Black dirt’s been applied. It’s seeded and it’s ready to go. So, and the seed that is out there is a temporary cover so it’s there to cover the property. Determine that the soils are all going to grow this thick cover of temporary, and then in the spring we’ll go in there and take it over. Disc it. Plant grass seed. So the playground for Pioneer Pass will probably be delayed until next fall, this time or later because we need to let the grass grow over the summer if we get reasonable growing conditions. The playground for Riley Ridge Park can happen right away in the spring if we get this seeded. If you’ve been out and watched, we’ve been working on that over the past week and we plan to have Riley Ridge thth seeded by September 10 or 15 at the latest. Ryan: Todd, just for planning purposes if you could provide an update on what’s the status, I know the Mayor had kind of pushed for the trail along Highway 101 after the young girl who got killed on her bicycle. He had presented to the City that we were going to move forward with finishing out that trail or crosswalk and I didn’t know what the status was that and is that something that we should plan for? Hoffman: That project has been in your CIP and come and gone because the project’s been delayed primarily by MnDOT reviews and so the project is forecasted but again not to happen until now, it’s looking like next year. And those improvements are at 101 and Pleasant View so it’s to finish up the trail and so it’s, the project’s ready to roll. It’s just a MnDOT review process that’s holding it up. MnDOT quite frankly is just having a challenge with staffing and they’ve changed a lot of people around. There’s been some turnover and so it just takes quite a bit of time to get it through. It’s frustrating for Mr. Oehme, our City Engineer. You thought there would have been some impact after that tragedy out on the roadway but it doesn’t seem to have too much of a speeding up process on the review so. I don’t think we’re going to see it this year but I’m confident again that the project will move forward eventually and hopefully next year. Ryan: Thank you. That’s one thing. And then the second thing, just with a lot of buzz right now with all the AIS and what, how that would impact us at all just with gates or inspections or you know and is that also something we should plan for? Hoffman: Does it impact, the conversation will certainly take place at budget. It will not be in a general operating and maintenance budget. It will be in a most likely a water resource budget so special operating budget so you shouldn’t have any capital needs for AIS in 2013 that I can forecast. The inspection program has been going very well. Over 2,300 watercraft inspected at Lake Susan, Lake Ann and Lotus to date. There’s about a 97% compliance rate overall of, when boaters come to the access they’re ready to go. Their boats are clean. There’s no water aboard. Their plugs are out and so we have about a 3%. The highest failure rate is in the area of weeds that you get on the watercraft or on the trailer so approximately 3% of all watercraft arrive at a landing with weeds on and there’s a conversation between the inspector and the boater to remove those weeds prior to launch and then there’s less than 1% that are arriving now with their plug inside, in the boat still retaining water in the boat so compliance has been very good. I’m not sure what the program will be. It will most likely be probably a similar program to what happened, if this year, if the funding continues from the Watershed District and others. So as you know the $10,000 that the City put in this year was complimented by $25,000 from the Riley-Purgatory Watershed District and then $7,750 from the DNR and now we’re up to, oh it’s over $7,000 or $8,000 from the Lotus Lake Homeowners Association. They just dropped off another check to extend the VOLT inspection services through September at Lotus Lake. During specific times. Ryan: Thank you. Cole Kelly: Any other discussion, primarily on Pioneer Pass or Riley Ridge? Leave those in the budget as they are, okay. Picnic tables and trees. Leave them as is. Okay, everybody’s in agreement. So we’re 12 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 back to the couple issues, one being the Rice Marsh Lake trail loop that Todd just went through, and instead of being $400,000 we’re looking now at $200,000 because it’s brought in-house, and I don’t know if other monies were found in other areas also for that Todd or if it’s just the in-house makes that much difference. Hoffman: Yeah it really does. You don’t have to, you know the $400,000 there’s some unknowns there that we can tackle internally so we design it. We don’t have to pay for the engineering. We don’t have to pay for plans and specs. Bidding. Now it’s down to materials and so, and really some, perhaps some permitting or. Cole Kelly: And this is something our road division would be doing? Hoffman: Parks and streets, yep. Cole Kelly: Okay, parks and streets. Hoffman: Yep. We’ll have some surveying costs. Beyond that parks and streets will team up on getting the rock in. Parks will grade it out and then streets will come in and pave it and then parks will go back in and do the restoration. Cole Kelly: So what we’re doing is we’re looking at changing that from $400,000 to $200,000 obviously and then the question is, do we want to move it up to 2013 or do we want to keep it in 2014? The City seems to have pushed to do it in-house so it could be done sooner than later so the discussion, and we can kind of add in what else we have before we get back to the discussion on the trail loop because then we’re also looking at the Highway 41 trail extension and stairway. The City Council wants to do it as a trail extension and a stairway as two separate bids now so I’m not sure how we’d break out the money on those two. Todd, if you have an idea. Hoffman: I don’t think you would break them out. They’re going to bid them as one project. Well I don’t know what they’re going to do but I assume they’re going to bid them. That’s what they asked is to separate them out. Bring them back and so they would bid the project again with the stairway as an add alternate. Cole Kelly: So in other words we’re looking at about $300,000 roughly. Hoffman: That would be the number to put in. Cole Kelly: Put in, okay. So we’re looking at, if we had $200,000 for Rice Marsh down from $400,000. Then you add $300,000, which is up from $205,000. So we really need to add in. Hoffman: That’s a difference of $95,000. Cole Kelly: Right, a difference of $95,000 so the year end fund balance for 2012 will actually be $1,353,027 because we’re adding back $205,000. And then Elise brought up the 101 deal, which I think we had in the budget before for $95,000 in 2012 and as you said that’s out of the budget right now for parks and rec. Hoffman: Oh, excuse me. 13 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Cole Kelly: Yeah, I say it looks like it was $95,000 for the Highway 101/Pleasant View deal. I think the whole thing was over a million and our part was $95,000 looking at my records here. And it’s out of the budget right now but it looks like it would come back in. Would it come back in at $95,000 for us? Hoffman: Yeah, and there’s really not a need to bring it forward. Cole Kelly: So that’s still in last year’s budget. Hoffman: Yep. Cole Kelly: And it’s been approved so it just, we don’t really need to address it. Hoffman: No. Cole Kelly: Okay. Thank you Todd. Boettcher: Quick question Todd. What would be the prioritization for the projects next year? You already had the two planned. If you bring in Rice Marsh Lake trail loop, does that just get, will that go to the back? Hoffman: No it will not. First thing out of the gate we’ll be out there, if we get a good spring we’ll be working on the clearing and grubbing of that trail so the Rice Marsh Lake trail loop and doing some early spring surveying work. And then we would let the spring warm up and let the grass continue to solidify out at Riley Ridge Park before we do the neighborhood install. Probably do that in mid-May, before school lets out or just after school outs in the first of June. The other park, Pioneer Pass would be over the summer. We would continue to do some work internally and then in the fall the neighborhood would come and build the trail so they kind of lay out incrementally through the summer. Ryan: And Todd, if you could clarify, you keep saying the stairway is an add alternate. Why did the council have you break it out if there isn’t a conceived savings on if you eliminate doing the staircase? Hoffman: What they want to do is they want to compare their actual costs and contrast of what they believe the value is of the connector. So if we re-bid it maybe the stairs will go back down to $75,000 and they might consider that enough of a value to put the stairs in but they want to be in the position, they really like I think the north project. They’re just a little bit apprehensive about the stairway connector and so if you bid it, you’re just going to bid a project. Build that trail connection. Build the pedestrian crossing. Put in the flashing beacon and then give us a price also for building the stairway. If we like your price then we’ll accept it. They don’t have to accept it at that point. They could simply say no, the stairway came back in at $90,000 again. We don’t want to do it. We’re not going to accept the alternate. We’re just going to build the north part so they want to have that flexibility to continue that conversation about is the value for the stairway there. Ryan: So they can move forward with one without having to commit to the other. Hoffman: Correct. Last night if they would have awarded it you have to build it all. Ryan: Okay. Thank you. Scharfenberg: So Todd does that property then just hypothetically if that stairway connector is never built, it just remains part of city property that they own that right-of-way between the two homes? 14 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: Correct. The City would have the easement there and there, currently there’s a watermain in there and then there would be also a trail easement that would just stay. And the neighbors would mow. They’d mow it. We wouldn’t be in there maintaining it. Scharfenberg: Well in terms of moving numbers around I’m uncomfortable necessarily moving the Rice Marsh project up to 2013. I would prefer to keep that back in 2014. Especially when you’ve got the whole issue with Highway 41 and the connector as well. Tom Kelly: Is that because you think we’re spending a lot of money in that one year? Scharfenberg: I think we’re spending a lot of money in that one year and I think there’s a lot of projects going on and you know that Rice Marsh loop, you know how many years did we go that Eden Prairie never built that extension you know finally. You know it took them how many years to get that built. I don’t know that there’s a rush necessarily. I mean it will be a nice project when that’s all completed. I don’t know that it you know it necessarily has to be done next year. Cole Kelly: Any other comments on it? Specifically Rice Marsh loop. Carron: I guess the only comment that I have on that is just, I’m in for 2013-2014 just as long as it just gets done before if the property starts to be built on, obviously that’d be the time to do it. So the only question I have is that neighbors, is it beneficial to start the conversation sooner or more right before we start the project? I would think we would want it right before you start, yeah. Okay. Cole Kelly: Personally I’m under the belief we should probably move it into 2013. I think that if the City found a way to cut the funding in half, the City’s probably quite interested in getting it done sooner than later and if we can cut the price in half next year I don’t know how much it would go up the year after. If it would or it wouldn’t. Probably not much but we’ve got a different group in the city that’s going to do the road and, or the trail and I think it’s a good idea to move it up to 2013. My personal opinion. Tom Kelly: I believe if I did all the math right, which 50/50 chance there, we’d have an ending budget of about $303,000, not counting the $78,000 from what we discussed in new business, if we did everything in 2013, including assuming a $300,000 cost for 41. So I don’t know if that is, says we should do it or if that’s, gets our year end budget low in 2013 but I’ve got about $303,000 left in our ending balance if we do everything at once. Carron: Did you take into consideration that we have already budgeted for 41? For this year? Tom Kelly: Yeah, right. I did take into account, I didn’t take into account, the estimated $200,000 in revenue so we probably would go up to $503,000. Yeah, I added in 205 and I took out 300,000 so for net take out of, for a net increase of $95,000 but I had forgotten to add in the estimated revenues of $200,000 for next year so we would be probably around $500,000 then. Cole Kelly: Todd, the $78,000 that we’re getting from the previous Lakeside Addition, is that added into our numbers or not? So that’s additional income that we didn’t plan on. Tom Kelly: Or would that be. Hoffman: No, it could be part of the assumed $200,000, yep. I wouldn’t count it twice. You know there’s a timing issue on that Rice Marsh loop and we’re going to start the process because we want to be in the position to move when the commission and the council say build it so we will be going ahead and doing the survey work. Getting the LUP. Working on the sewer line connection and then Commissioner 15 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Carron is correct in that there’s a timing issue. When they’re in building that street, we can’t wait until it’s complete to be plowing in there, building a trail. We’ve got to be in there when that street’s rock. They’re building their stuff. We’re building our stuff so there is a timing issue. And it’s either then or before. We can’t very well build that after that street is all said and done. His purchase agreement expires soon. He’s going to seek an extension or a contingency based on gaining access to that sewer line. If he can get going and start building houses next year he’ll do it and so that would advance the project no matter when you put the money. We would be in there asking the council to move forward. But it could take 2014 or beyond. This thing’s been sitting around. A year goes by pretty fast in planning. My point being is it’s not like buying a playground. When you put it in a year you know you can get it done. There still are going to be some other. Cole Kelly: So Tom what you came up with was $303,000 plus add in $200,000 so at the end of this year we’d be at $503,000 at 2013. Then if you look at 2014 and you add in another $200,000 and subtract $25,000 because we have really nothing going on in 2014 if we move Rice Marsh up. So then we’re adding back the end of 2014 either way we’re still going to be somewhere close to $700,000 in the bank at the end of the day. Does that seem correct? Okay. Ryan: My only concern is that there’s a lot of assumptions that other projects that then don’t come up and we’re already locked with both of the neighborhood parks so I tend to lean in favor or agree with Steve on keeping it in 2014 because if we move it to 2013, then we feel obligated that we have to spend it, the money and finish the project where if we you know we find out that we need to move on it we can always move it up to 2013 but I’d rather have it in 2014 and finish out the projects that we have in 2013. Hoffman: And there is truth in that either way is fine. You know if it goes in 2014 and this project, this cul-de-sac gets built, we’ll be right back here saying we think you should recommend to the council that you advance this project. The time is now so. There’s always that fall back. We don’t want to hold up the development. This thing, John Klingelhutz has been trying to market that piece for a long time. It’s been drawn and redrawn and redrawn again over the past 4 years and now Mr. Knoblauch is close to it and the reason it’s coming back is the market’s coming back. You can actually make money on a house again. You’re going to invest a lot of money in the street so it’s good timing and if he happens, if this, we’re into a State review process again on this LUP and that could take 6 months. That could take a year. Simply that part of the process so we’d better get started there. If he received enough assurances that this sewer line was going to go in, he would still have to be really moving to get those streets ready to roll for next year’s construction. There’s no doubt that we could still be in there in 2013, or 2014 I think. Ryan: That way if it comes back to us I think we would all be prepared to you know move forward with it but if we keep it in 2014 then we know we have that project in 2014 to do it so again if we need to move on it because they’re coming to us in 2013, we can do it. However it would be a nice project for us I believe in 2014. Aldritt: And I agree with that. I think it spaces it out too. You know we’ve got a lot going on in 2013. If we don’t really have to right now do the Rice Marsh trail loop, we might as well keep it in 2014 but if we are approached then we can move it in and we do it at that time. Cole Kelly: Well do we want to take a vote? I think everybody agreed it’s going to stay in the CIP at $200,000 so the discussion is do we want to put it in 2013 or 14, which we’ve pretty much not everybody’s weighed in on it but we can take a vote on it. But do we want to talk about the 41 trail extension stairway before we decide what we want to do on the Rice Marsh Lake because that’s the other big item that’s going to be in the CIP and I’m assuming that that has to go into 2013. For $300,000 but. 16 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Boettcher: Well I think based on what I see out there on Highway 41, I mean that crossing, I see that could be a potential safety thing. We need to get everything completed there as soon as possible. I was previously in agreement with going 2013 on the Rice Marsh Lake trail but Todd said that the stuff they need to do to get it prepped has to be first thing in the spring so we couldn’t wait until July of next year to get started. If we can’t get it done early, let’s just keep it at 2014 but let’s get the Highway 41 thing done as soon as possible. Cole Kelly: Okay, any other discussions on the Highway 41? Do we want to put that in now or do we want, I think we’d want to put it in now because it’s going to be in the budget for $300,000. You know so you get into questions, we talked about the beacon before. We talked about the school district, Minnetonka, whether they’re going to throw some money at this or not. Right now it doesn’t look like it but there are discussions going on. Do we want to make any changes in our recommendations or do we want to go with the full recommendation that we had before with the $30,000 in the beacons and the stairs and the trail extension? What’s the general feeling here? Scharfenberg: Well with the beacon and that, I guess I’m still confused. Is that all part of our project or is that being funded through another source? Hoffman: All part of the project. There’s two ways to think about it. You either just put the cross arms up there with the signs that say pedestrian crossing, or you put those up plus you add this flashing, rapid flashing beacon that’s self actuated on either side. And that was the $34,000 estimated and the $30,000 for Midwest bid so it’s right at $30,000 to $34,000 for that portion of the project. Carron: I think the way that the City Council wants to put it back out there as far as having the staircase as an alternate does not affect any decision we have to make here. I think it’s actually a smart plan so it gives us more leeway. I like the idea actually as an alternate. That way the true sum is up there so you can make a decision at that time so adding the $300,000 in 2013 just by adding the $95,000 as you know the added math there, I think that’s the good number that we should go in there with and at least move forward in that direction. At least put the money away and if it ends up being spent and it’s approved, it is. If it’s not, then at least it’s accounted for in the CIP. Scharfenberg: So your recommendation Brent is that we put that $300,000 in 2013? Carron: Yeah, 2013. Yep. Which $200,000 came from 2012 and just add the $95,000 so we’ve got the correct math. Cole Kelly: Any more discussion? Do we want to, everybody wants to keep the beacon in? We’re not worried about the liability of the City as far as the beacon goes with the 55 miles per hour speed limit in that area? What does the City Attorney think of this Todd? Hoffman: I haven’t asked him specifically. Cole Kelly: Okay. Scharfenberg: Well the City’s liability is capped anyway. The municipal liability on stuff like this, unless I’m wrong, but I think you know municipal liability on a lot of the stuff is capped by statute so. Cole Kelly: Right, but there’s still liability. Scharfenberg: Well yeah, there’s liability with everything that we do anyway so. 17 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Cole Kelly: I think one of the concerns is that people push the beacon and start walking instead of looking and so, and I’ll just bring it up as discussion point is, you know do you go up there and it’s a crossway and so you take care of business and you make sure there are no cars coming. Some people might go oop, push it. I mean it’s a state law that you’re supposed to stop and I’ll tell you what, you know my wife and I do walks and we go across Powers Boulevard. 50% of the people stop. 50% of the people don’t stop and that’s a 45 mile an hour road so I mean you’ve got to take care of yourself. Make sure you get across so if we’re putting up the beacons, my question is are we giving people a crutch that they think they’re safer than they are. Carron: So just play devil’s advocate. Right now at crosswalks and push buttons they’ve got voice activated now so when you push it and the light turns green, it says walk. But that inattentive driver, is that also giving the same false impersonation or false representation that it’s okay if you’ve got a sign now that yells at your to walk across the street but yet someone still can turn right on a red. Might not be paying attention. There’s a lot of stuff like that that, I’ve been thinking about the beacon too and I was thinking do we add that as an alternate as well. Just throw the beacon on as an alternate. It’s, yeah. I don’t think that would be a huge issue. That could be a possibility as well. I just think, especially with the school right there, anything is better than nothing. I know Todd said it’s 50 miles an hour and it hasn’t been put up on a 50 miles an hour highway yet so it’s not really tried and true. Could be a trial error or it could be something new to the area. New to the state. Hoffman: If we add it as an alternate then the conversation then the conversation continue up to the point to where it’s awarded. That’s a good idea. Carron: The liability, does the city hold liability on a state highway? Even though because it’s going to be on state highway property. Hoffman: Yeah, it’ll be our project. They’d sue the City and the State but really it’s the, the goal here is to improve safety not to detract from safety and so you know, the City accepts all liability on it’s projects but it does so with intentions of making people safer or improving their lives, not hopefully putting somebody in harm’s way so that’s the decision. The decision is this, as a commission do you feel it’s going to improve safety? Do you think it’s worth trying? You can always shut it off or you can decide and make a recommendation that the council not do that portion of the project. Boettcher: Todd, I haven’t heard. Is there going to be additional signage before the beacon? Hoffman: Yes. Boettcher: Okay. Because that area, I mean I turn there off of 41 on Lake Lucy and that’s not 50 miles an hour out there. I mean it’s scary people coming over the hill when they leave Cub at Shorewood, I mean it’s like you’re coming down to one lane and everybody’s racing by the time they get there they’re doing 65 so it’s, safety is an issue there definitely. Hoffman: It is. And the reason this is, you know we’re building an underpass at the Minnewashta Regional Park because it doesn’t make sense to take people across the street. If we can put an underpass in that’s the better way to do it. There’s no area for an underpass here. You know there was conversation about taking them farther north to the stop sign but then you’ve got to cross, or to the stop light. You’ve got to cross a free right and you’re trying to push everybody north which people don’t do. They’ll still run across the highway so the choice was okay, we stay at this location. And if you think about it, I don’t know for those of you who use that area as a pedestrian or as a runner, it’s the pinch point around the northeast side of Lake Minnewashta and Lake Minnewashta Park. All the pedestrian traffic that goes on the north side of Lake Minnewashta is funneled into this location, and that includes school kids. It 18 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 includes people that want to recreate. It includes people that want to get to the dog park. So this is the crossing point. There really is no other options. People are not walking up and down Highway 41 looking for another crossing point. This is the location okay so now we have identified that. You’ve got pedestrians coming from the west and coming from the east crossing. So now how are you going to make it the best, we know you’re crossing a state highway. But if you talk to pedestrians that do it they’re going to say yes, we understand we’re crossing a state highway. We have to do it for work or for a job or for recreation or for school, so yeah give us what you can to make us more safe. And then the question becomes okay so if I push the button and it starts flashing and now I’m watching traffic, and does that make some people stop? Does it make all people stop? Or do I just walk up to a crosswalk? The safe island is really in my opinion the best part of that. I can see that safe island. I get across, whether I have a flashing beacon or not, I get across to that point. I’ve crossed one lane and a turn lane. Now I’ve got to go across the other two lanes to get across to the other side so that breaks it in half which is a big relief. And then beyond that it’s just you know how do we think this thing will respond so that’s a good, I think that’s a good idea. Let the conversation on that continue. There are some people at the State that obviously think the idea will work. They’ve approved our agreement. There are others that you know question whether or not it should go on a 50 miles an hour speed limit so we could continue that conversation with the council until such point that it’s awarded and then they can choose. Ryan: Todd, has there been any consideration on the fact that it is, could be considered a school crossing? And if we get into the details of what kind of flashing beacon it is, if you have you know a school sign or a school crossing or is that not legal to say that it’s a school crossing on a state highway? I think people with flashing lights and see that school crossing sign that you see, that people tend to pay more attention than just your regular crosswalk if they think that it’s going to be for children. Hoffman: I don’t know the answer. It hasn’t come up. It’s hasn’t come up. I don’t know if the fact that it’s a middle school changes that, I don’t know but I’ll ask that question. Ryan: Okay. Cole Kelly: So with Brent’s idea, if I’m getting it right, what we’d do is put in the CIP $265,000 for the trail and the stairway and $35,000 for the beacon and then the City Council can kind of debate it. Hoffman: Just keep the $300,000, yeah. Cole Kelly: Just clump it up. Tom Kelly: …make a motion to City Council to treat it separate or not? Hoffman: You could make a recommendation, yep. Cole Kelly: Well if we made a recommendation to treat it separately why wouldn’t we put it in the CIP separately? Carron: Because you wouldn’t get one without the other. Hoffman: Just to bid it as all one project and then leave it up at that point the decision, do we accept the beacon or not but still just $300,000 in aggregate. You don’t have to start breaking out, we don’t know what the stairway will cost. I mean you can start breaking it out. It’s just easier to leave it in as one item. Cole Kelly: So then what’d be do is put it in the CIP as $300,000 with the recommendation that the City Council look at the beacon as a separate issue. 19 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: Yes. As an alternate. Same way as the stairs. Cole Kelly: Any more discussion on it or is everybody pretty much in agreement that we need to put the $300,000 in 2013? I take no discussion as we’re putting $300,000 in 2013 with the recommendation that the City Council look at the beacon issue separately. Carron: So moved. Cole Kelly: As far as, let’s see. That’s $300,000. As far as the Rice Marsh Lake trail, we’ve had four people weigh in that they’d rather see 2014. One person weigh in for 2013 and two people not weighing in yet. I guess they don’t need to be since we’ve got 4 people so right now we’ll put Rice Marsh Lake into 2014 for $200,000. So our next discussions are the pedestrian trail to the Arboretum for 2015. The Chanhassen Nature Preserve trail for 2016 and Bandimere Community Park expansion Phase I for 2017. Carron: Correct me if I’m wrong Todd but aren’t 2015 through 17 projects we’re still kind of waiting for grants and possible grants? Hoffman: Correct. The $90,000 in 2016, that will build that last stairway connector but again timing is development triggered so whenever that development goes, then that happens. So that will continue to fluctuate until that final lot is built. Once they build a building on that final lot then this triggers this project so that will just fluctuate around. The 275 in 2015 for the pedestrian trail at the Arboretum, that’s seed money. That’s simply seed money. That project’s going to be a million dollars or greater so that’s set aside as a contribution but it’s not going to do the project until the other funds are identified and the same is for Bandimere Park expansion. 250, that’s seed money set aside to at least plan for a contribution if there’s a grant or other funding. So the only firm expenditure there right now is that $90,000. I would call the others place holders of a sort. They identify where your priorities are if opportunities are found. Cole Kelly: Any comments on how the money’s laid out for 2015,16 and 17? Any thoughts? I noticed we don’t, in 2017 we don’t have picnic tables, park benches or trees allotted. Is that something the City wants added in or? Hoffman: It’s not intentional. You could, we should continue to have it. For the picnic tables and park benches for sure. The trees are really a policy issue. The benches we would continue to purchase. Primarily our memorial bench program so that we just got the memorial bench for the soldier in City Center Park was just put in last week. Cole Kelly: So those items will come up again for review in the next few years. I don’t know, I’m not hearing any comments or thoughts right now. Scharfenberg: Again I will just comment that you know as Todd indicated, you know those are all place holders. Things may change over the next couple years. I can’t think of any other projects that are out there that I would advocate for or move anything around so I am fine with the money that’s been allocated for those three projects and what years that they’re in. Carron: I’m in agreeance. Cole Kelly: So at this time I think we’re good with that in adding $10,000 for the picnic tables, park benches and another $15,000 for the trees in 2017. No issues there. Todd at one time we had, what was it, $75,000 for that Bluff Creek trail, gap trail and is that something we need a grant to work with? 20 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: Most likely or also a park fund that goes up after a million dollars. Cole Kelly: Okay. So there’s no reason to put that back for right now. Hoffman: Or a road project. Cole Kelly: Or a road project. Or how about, for a road project making a bike entrance at the end. Hoffman: Or development. Cole Kelly: Where it is now. Hoffman: If it would subdivide. Yeah, we can do that in the interim. Cole Kelly: Okay, so the way I see it right now, 2013 stands as it was given to us. No, we add $300,000. $205,000 goes back into the budget. $300,000 for the trail, stairway and beacon gets added. In 2013 everything else stays the same. For 2014, Rice Marsh Lake trail loop drops from $400,000 to $200,000. No other changes. And 2015 and 16 currently no changes. And 2017 we are adding $10,000 for picnic tables and park benches and $15,000 for trees. No other changes. Any other questions, comments or does somebody want to make a motion for what we just, for the numbers I just went through. Hoffman: Does somebody have the total? And then you can add, replace that total on the motion and add one project and then that would be your motion. Scharfenberg: While people are adding things up, Todd I just, I’ve got a question for I guess you and for Jerry. It kind of dove tails in with the CIP discussion that we’re having tonight. Have we had discussions you know with the school district about the artificial turf and the fact that you know we’re using it. They use it. We use it. The practice turf and stuff like that. If and when that will need to be replaced, are they going to be expecting us to contribute towards something like that? Would that come out of, not capital improvement but would it be, what’s the other fund that we use, replacement? Hoffman: Operation and maintenance or capital, yep. Scharfenberg: Right. Can you speak to that particular issue? Hoffman: There’s no clear answer right now. I think they probably would look for that money but it was not included in the agreement and so. Scharfenberg: I mean do you think that that’s something that we need to consider going forward in the next couple, you know 5 to 6 years? Hoffman: My recommendation would be that you not add it and that you say this is a school district cost. Scharfenberg: Yeah, I know that you spent that money on the pavilion but obviously you know we’re using that. We’re one of the major users of that. It’s something that’s going to benefit you know the city. Continued use of that. I’ve tossed around the idea do we charge some of the associations for use of that? You know that would be put, set aside just in particular for doing that. Cole Kelly: So Todd as far as the number we’re using, we wouldn’t add the 205 to that number because we’re just looking at the 5 years so basically what we’re doing is we’re subtracting $200,000 and adding in $300,000. And then we’re adding $25,000. 21 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: Well, but let’s, we’re only approaching 2013 to 2017 so what you’re asking for is a total budget for those years so the full 300’s got to come forward into this number. The graph will change. Cole Kelly: But we’re subtracting $200,000 for the Rice Marsh Lake. Hoffman: Yep, so now you’re at 100 plus you’ve added 25. Cole Kelly: 25 so we’re adding $125,000 to the number. Hoffman: Correct. Cole Kelly: Okay, so it will be a $1,890,000. Hoffman: Yep. I’m in agreement with that. Steve to finish your conversation, when we say we’re using it, the City directly? Ruegemer: It’s community based groups. Hoffman: Yeah, but at that point the discussion becomes, you know it’s who’s the provider of the facilities to the citizens, is it the school district or is it the City and I think at that point we’ll say you know we contributed a one time contribution to your facility and we have an agreement on what the return is going to be for that and beyond that we have our facilities to maintain. You have your facilities to maintain. There’s no, the other joint project was the tennis, or the tennis court here. Now they’ve turned that over to us and so they’re no longer maintaining this tennis court up here so we kind of keep a running score with the district on who’s doing what so that would be my recommendation is that we continue to advocate that they take the responsibility on. But then it’s going to become a question if they don’t do it and the community’s upset and at that point a park board and a council wants to respond by helping out to get something, the project rolling, then that’s their decision. That’s the decision at that time. And the number of the project then would increase from 10 to 11. Well how many are in? Yeah, 10 to 11. Currently we’re talking about 10 projects. You would add in the Highway 41 trail and stairway project and the $1,890,000 would finance 11 projects. Carron: So I’ll struggle through this here. I will make the motion that this commission recommends to the City Council that the City Council approves our CIP for the next 5 years, from 2013 to 2017 totally $1,890,000 to complete the 11 projects that we have listed here including the Trunk Highway 41 staircase that we’ve moved from 2012 to 2013. Does that encompass everything? Hoffman: That’s perfect, yeah. Scharfenberg: Second. Cole Kelly: Thank you. Carron moved, Scharfenberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve a 2013-2017 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP) totaling $1,890,000 to complete or initiate the following eleven projects: Tennis Court Refurbishment, Recreation Center Entrance Improvements, Purchase of Picnic Tables/Benches, Purchase of Trees, Initiation of Pedestrian Trail to the Arboretum, Completion of the Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail Loop, Phase I Development of Pioneer Pass Neighborhood Park, Initiation of Bandimere Community Park Expansion, Phase I Development of 22 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Riley Ridge Neighborhood Park, Completion of the Rice Marsh Lake Trail Loop, and Highway 41 Trail/Pedestrian Crossing and Stairway Connector. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: KLEINBANK SUMMER CONCERT SERIES EVALUATION. Johnson: Perfect. Thank you Chair Kelly, commissioners. A few weeks ago we wrapped up our 2012 KleinBank Summer Concert Series. We had 8 performances. We began in June and ran the length of the summer on Thursday evenings. We did have 2 daytime performances over the lunch hour as well. This remains a free event for the public. It’s fun to see people come week after week. Kind of get some familiar faces out there as well as new people too who maybe just been driving by and didn’t even know it existed so we had a wide range of bands. We averaged about 200 people a night. We brought Tim Mahoney back this year as our biggest attendance of the year. I think there was about 500 people there that night. KleinBank continues to be a great sponsor of the event. Their sponsorship of $2,000 helps cover the cost of the performance fees for the bands so we need to remain to continue to bring in some of those local bands with the high draw for the crowd. They also provided free water for each of the performances and provided some balloons and stuff for the kids concerts too. At each concert staff sold concession items. Just a few pop, candy. We did buy a new popcorn machine this year, which was huge hit I think. We upped our concession sales from about $100 bucks last year to I think it was about $240 bucks this year so it seemed like the popcorn machine really took off and kind of led to some other sales you know where there was a beverage to go with it or what not so, just you know it’s not a money maker but it just helps cover some of those costs associated with the program so it’s a great program. I think it’s valued by the community and we look forward to continue to offer it in future years. On the back side of the report I have a few suggestions. Just continue to market the program as much as we can. Get that fan base up there. A few other things. Continue to work with KleinBank. You know they’re starting to discuss things, you know what could we do to make it more of an intimate atmosphere with the stage and stuff. You know what can we do to just continue to amp it up and keep things fresh year after year. You’ll see in the bottom there we have a revenue and expense report, just kind of broken down. Like I said this isn’t a money making program. You know it does provide value to the citizens in the community and kind of brings the people to downtown you know who can visit the restaurants and things too while they’re down here so. Be happy to entertain any questions anybody has or further explain things. Cole Kelly: Thank you Mitch. So KleinBank is interested in continuing this. It’s a sponsorship and they’re actually from what you said it sounds like they’re looking into different ways to increase the sponsorship maybe or the atmosphere and the people coming out. Johnson: Absolutely. Yeah, we have a great relationship with KleinBank. They’re in a great location across the street right there. I think they really enjoy it and we look forward to continuing that. Cole Kelly: Any other questions or comments? Scharfenberg: Well again Mitch, thanks for taking this on and again I think this is a wonderful thing that we do for the City. It’s very well attended. I like the split between the kids things and doing some of the kids concerts and the other concert with you know a lot of different variety of music. I think that’s important. Again I would, myself being a band person I you know would like to promote more the community bands, if we can do that at least every year that we have at least one community band and invite maybe some other. It’d be kind of neat to send out invitations to other community bands. I think 23 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 they’re looking for opportunities to play and to offer those opportunities so I would just throw that out there. Johnson: Perfect. Thank you. Cole Kelly: Any other questions or comments? I just want to add, my wife and I were able to make one. Unfortunately the other ones and our schedules were tough and we took the cooler out and it was just a fantastic night. I think that was the big night. There was a lot of people out there and a good time was had by all so nice job. Good work. Ryan: Mitch one comment. They were great. I went with the kids and had a blast. I see that you want to change the time to 12:00 to 1:00. I noticed that you have a lot of daycare providers bringing kids. I don’t know if that’s, if they made the recommendation to you to change the time but if you are, maybe make a call to some of those, the folks that are coming because they have a set schedule and find out what time is best for them because I noticed that they brought a big group. Johnson: Yeah, it was a majority of our attendance with those daytime ones so. Ryan: They were very fun. Nice job. Johnson: Yeah, thanks. Good recommendation. Carron: I’ve got one comment, question. With this, do you think there’d be any interest in, depending upon you know bands and that sort of thing, but battle of the bands. Having the winner maybe do a quick open set for one of these bands one night or something. Maybe, I don’t know if it’s going to be a little bit more of a draw for the battle of the bands or something but community, kind of a shout out to not only the people that won but kind of another showcase for them real quick or maybe that’s not feasible, I don’t know. Johnson: So you’re referring to like the ChanJam? The high school battle of the bands? Carron: Yeah, yeah. Johnson: Oh, okay. Carron: Yeah, oh yeah. Johnson: No I think that’d be great. Yep. Right now we just offer like the opening for the CBO for the th 4 of July but yeah, we could definitely look into having them down here too. Carron: If there’s interest. Johnson: Yeah. Hoffman: Yeah, right now they open for CBO. Carron: Oh do they? th Hoffman: 4 of July. That’s one of the prizes. They think it’s pretty cool to be up there on the big stage. You want to see some chests puff out and, we’ve got our light set. 24 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Cole Kelly: Okay, I think we’re moving on to Jerry and the fall softball league. FALL SOFTBALL LEAGUE REPORT. Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly. Just a quick update on the fall softball league. We did start last strd Tuesday. August 21 out at Lake Ann and Thursday the 23. Tuesday went great. Thursday we had a little lightning on the second half of the night so we did get the 6:00 and 7:00 games in so we do have some make-up’s after the first week on Thursday so we have the following week after the season concludes, the first part of October to make up those games so knock on wood we’ll have clear sailing for the rest of the time. If not we will certainly make sure we get that taken care of. Just overall it’s, you know we take the time limit down a little bit. Get rid of the courtesy. Kind of try to speed things up a little bit. Have a couple more teams from last fall to make it 16. There seems to be great interest in that. You know Tuesday night has kind of evolved into a little bit more the competitive night through the course of the year. Thursday was always kind of the more competitive night. Now it’s kind of flip flopped. We’ve gotten some teams from Eden Prairie, Shakopee, that kind of come in because of the reputation that we have on Tuesday nights. So that’s always nice to see. We’ve had some returning teams for a number of years which is great to see. I think people really like the double headers out at Lake Ann. Love the venue. It’s really a great opportunity to enjoy some friendships through the first part of October so it’s a great deal. We’ll continue to do it as long as we have teams with that so any questions from any of the commissioners? Cole Kelly: No questions? No. Jerry, thanks for the great job you continue to do on the softball. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Cole Kelly: Anything you want to highlight? Hoffman: Well we didn’t get the grant for Rice Marsh so we talked about that tonight. The Rice Marsh trail. The opening letter for the DNR grant. And Brent and Jim are going to be representing the commission at that Conservation Development workshop. It’s right next door in Shorewood so that’s close by. And then there’s also another date that’s not in this packet. That would be the Planning Commission is putting together a tour. They’ll invite all commissions and the City Council for th Wednesday, I believe it’s Wednesday night, September 12. So it’s not a mandatory attendance but if you’re available it’s an educational tour to get out with all of the other commissions. Planning Commission, Environmental Commission, and council members. There’s 3 stops to talk about development in Chanhassen, trails, housing, parks, water resources, planning and then ending up with a bonfire and some hotdogs and S’mores down at Bandimere at the new property so we’ll start at Minnetonka Middle School West. We’ll meet here. Carpool out to Minnetonka Middle School West. Take a look at the trail project. The proposed trail project. Take a look at the water tower. All the things going on on that end of town. The street project up on Minnewashta Heights and then there’s one stop in the middle before we get down to Bandimere to take a look at the new parkland acquisition. The plan for that. The plan for the Highway 101. As most of you know there’s a 7.5 or 7.6 million dollar improvement to 101 coming next year from Lyman Boulevard to Pioneer. Talk about that. How is the park going to be affected? Where’s the new entrance road going? And then end up right in the Nettesheim’s former back yard with a grill out. Now that you own the property and stake your claim. th Boettcher: What time does that start on the 12? 25 Park and Recreation Commission – August 28, 2012 Hoffman: 6:00 to 9:00. Boettcher: 6:00 til 9:00, okay. Cole Kelly: I didn’t catch the date? th Hoffman: Wednesday, September 12. You’ll receive a formal invitation by mail. And then it’s always fun to read picnic evaluations. I don’t know, Jerry probably winches when they come in the mail but they’re almost always good. Ruegemer: Sometimes. Hoffman: That has mostly to do with his profound skills to manage people and once, sometimes you can’t help that there’s bees or a little dirt in the facility but Jerry does a great job and we really appreciate all that work. Scharfenberg: Well I’ll add one more personal evaluation. We were in the park recently, Lake Ann Park for a family reunion on a Sunday and again I think it’s a testament to the City and to the job that everyone does. That particular Sunday, you know the beach was crowded. There were multiple parties going on within the park. People had their own pop-up tents set up. There were people renting boats and everything that day and I think there were people at the playground and on the softball fields and it was just again, you know that park was just highly utilized that day and I know that that goes on every day but until you’re there and you see it, it is just amazing so. Hoffman: Yeah, wonderful. Good. Another note on Lake Ann. Last night at the council meeting, Councilmember Laufenburger introduced a desire by a group that contacted him to name, in honor of Al Klingelhutz, the late Al Klingelhutz, the Hilltop shelter the Al Klingelhutz Memorial Picnic Pavilion so the council has asked that that be brought back. There is a policy for naming and that that be brought back to the City Council so staff needs to get a formal proposal from the group. It’s the Chanhassen Historical Society and then present that to the City Council for their consideration. There will be a public hearing at some point in the future if they decide to take that up to talk about that proposal. Cole Kelly: I think that pretty much covers it. Any more comments? Questions on the administrative section? Is there a motion to adjourn? Boettcher moved, Carron seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 26