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CC Minutes 10-08-2012Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Mayor Furlong: Any other comments? If not I would certainly entertain a motion. Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor if we could, Mr. Laufenburger did a lot I think to help to bring this forward. I would like for him to make the motion. Councilman Laufenburger: Be happy to do that. Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, I move that in recognition of Al Klingelhutz’s lifelong commitment to the betterment of Chanhassen and Carver County, and in recognition of the prominent role that he played in the acquisition and development of Lake Ann Park, the Chanhassen City Council approves the re-naming of the Lake Ann Park Hilltop Picnic Shelter to the Al Klingelhutz Memorial Pavilion. Councilwoman Ernst: Second. Mayor Furlong: A motion’s been made and seconded. Any further discussion on the motion? Seeing none let’s proceed with the vote. Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that in recognition of Al Klingelhutz’s lifelong commitment to the betterment of Chanhassen and Carver County, and in recognition of the prominent role that he played in the acquisition and development of Lake Ann Park, the Chanhassen City Council approves the re-naming of the Lake Ann Park Hilltop Picnic Shelter to the Al Klingelhutz Memorial Pavilion.All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. TH 620 WEST 96 STREET VARIANCE: REQUEST FOR VARIANCE FROM SECTION 20-904 OF THE CHANHASSEN CITY CODE TO ALLOW AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IN EXCESS OF 1,000 SQUARE FEET ON PROPERTY ZONED AGRICULTURAL ESTATE TH DISTRICT (A2); LOCATED AT 620 WEST 96 STREET; APPLICANT/OWNER: ANDREW & SHANNON RIEGERT. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This variance request appeared before thth the Planning Commission at their September 18 meeting and it’s located on 620 West 96 Street which is just to the west of 101 and north of Pioneer Trail. The applicant is requesting a variance from the 1,000 square foot accessory structure maximum to construct a 2,560 square foot accessory structure on property that’s zoned Agricultural Estate. The land use, future land use designation of this area is low density. The applicant’s purchased the property in 1998 with the intention of construction an accessory structure. The stated intent for the 40 by 60 accessory structure is work for additional, is for additional storage and work space. Again, and we put some of the background and the accessory structure, kind of the background of this area in and of itself. There are other accessory structures in this area which I’ll go into in a little bit more detail but again the applicant when he purchased the home, you can see did provide for a driveway and stated at the Planning Commission that there was a pad. It’s really unclear to see exactly how that works for clearly there was a driveway put I place. In addition changes were made to the home. And, whoops. To the home. The garage, accessory garage was removed and an attached garage was put in place. On the first page of the staff report we did note too that there is a Manage II wetland adjacent to the Pioneer Trail which we did not ask to be delineated but there is a wetland in the southern area of this property. While this is a 4 acre lot, again it is somewhat encumbered with the wetland in and of itself. So the applicable zoning regulations are the attached maximum 1,000 square foot accessory structure. This ordinance was adopted in May of 2007 in response to contractors and complaints that we had throughout 7 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 the city for home occupations. In the history of the city, at one time conditional use permits were allowed for contractors yards and over time, because there was no cap on those people purchased large lots in agricultural zones as the city intended to urbanize, as we stated in the comprehensive plan, it’s not the city’s intent to have large acre lots in the future. That would be in the rural part of the county and our vision for the community was to provide for more urban development, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have large lot rural lots in the city. We do also have lots that will, may never have urban services to it that are larger 2 1/2 estate acre lots, and certainly a 1,000 square foot accessory structure is permitable for those types of uses. We also have other properties that do have horse barns. Adjacent large horse barns in this so because some of these properties weren’t being used for agricultural purposes and we were pursuing a lot of these also through court action that the city undertook a study looking at where these were happening and decided to put the 1,000 square foot cap on the accessory structures. At the time that the ordinance went through the Planning Commission and the City Council took a look at the ordinance and felt that there was you know, should we, what was the right number? What was, for maximum square footage, again it really came down to looking at kind of the average lot size and again providing those at 2 1/2 acres. I guess the feeling was felt at that time if there was someone that still had horse property and wanted the agricultural type use, that you would pursue, they could certainly pursue a variance as with any other person that wanted administrative relief could come through and ask for a variance request in this circumstance. So then this neighborhood itself, and this is some of the factors that the Planning Commission looked at. Mr. Riegert in this circumstance you know purchased the home intending to put the accessory structure on as he was going through his modifications to his home. That was the last part, last phase I guess of his plan and the ordinance had passed prior to that. We did look at the summary of the accessory structures in this now most of these were built prior to the cap of the 1,000 square foot minimum. Some of these there’s no records of building permits being pulled of some of the more recent ones but that kind of gives you a summary of the area. I just wanted also to describe there is a distinction th between what’s on the north side of West 96 where those lots are a little bit smaller than on the south th side of West 96. Where those lots again are approximately 4 acres, plus or minus. That’s also again encumbered with a wetland on that southern portion. So with that at the Planning Commission meeting th on September 18 they did hold a public hearing. Some of the neighbors did speak about the character of their area and certainly the character of that neighborhood is unique but the Planning Commission did vote 4 to 2 to approve the variance for a 2,000 square foot. A little less than what the applicant had requested. Because a 75% majority is required to approve the variance and this, it didn’t meet that, their recommendation therefore, their action therefore forms a recommendation. So what the staff had revised then would be the recommendation for the, for what the Planning Commission had recommended which was the additional 1,000 variance to the, was permitted for the 1,000 and also had modified Findings of Fact to reflect the 1,000 variance to the 1,000 square foot minimum. So with that I’d be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for Ms. Aanenson. Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Actually Kate my first question relates to the vote. The decision that was, occurred at the Planning Commission was 4 to 2 and that was not a, it was a majority but it was not a. Kate Aanenson: Super majority. It needs 75% of those present voting. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So 75% of the Planning Commission members present would essentially have negated the need for the action to come to City Council, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Is it, I’m sorry to clarify, is it the members present or of the entire, of the 7 members? 8 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Kate Aanenson: It’s the members present. Mayor Furlong: I think it’s moot either way because... Kate Aanenson: Yeah, it’s right. Right. But let me just clarify that your question Councilman Laufenburger, the question was, because he wanted 2,500 he still has the right to, if he wants the 2,500, he still had the right to appeal. He could have accepted that so there’s two courses of action. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: He could have said I’ll take the 2,000 and accept that or he could say I would still like to get the 2,500 and still appeal that recommendation. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, so the action tonight though is the City Council is acting on the recommendation of 2,000, or the 1,000 square foot variance. Is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Right. What we had recommended, what the staff had recommended was denial. The Planning Commission went above that and gave the additional 1,000. His request is for the 2,500. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, so the Planning Commission required, the word you used is super majority or 75%, so Mr. Knutson why is it that only a City Council requires only a majority vote? Roger Knutson: Because that’s what your ordinance provides. Councilman Laufenburger: Man of few words, thank you Mr. Knutson. Roger Knutson: I believe the philosophy behind it was, if the Planning Commission is going to act you want to make sure that it’s, it’s pretty unanimous agreement for that decision and if there isn’t pretty near unanimous decision for that decision you wanted the oversight of the City Council to review it. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So specifically the vote to, the approval requires a simple majority. 3 vote to 2, is that correct Mr. Knutson tonight? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Roger Knutson: I paused because in one city, it takes 4 votes so I had to, where I work but simple majority here. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Mr. Mayor, that’s all I had. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for Ms. Aanenson? Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Okay well thank you for clarifying that but then if I understand correctly if we wanted to as a City Council we could change this to a 1,560 foot variance if we wanted to. Roger Knutson: You could make it less, yes. 9 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Kate Aanenson: Or more. Councilman McDonald: Wouldn’t that be more? Mayor Furlong: Wait, the variance. Roger Knutson: Oh excuse me. Mayor Furlong: Of the 1,560. Councilman McDonald: Right, yeah. The variance is 1,560 not the 1,000. Roger Knutson: That would be more, yes. Mayor Furlong: Or I guess for clarification we could deny it. Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilman McDonald: And do less if we wanted to, okay. Mayor Furlong: So it’s a recommendation coming from the Planning Commission. Councilman McDonald: Then the other question I have for Kate is that I’m looking at the properties and th it looks as though there’s, there’s 7 of them on West 96 Street and I look at what they all have as far as accessories and it looks like everybody exceeds the 1,000, except for the one lot where they’ve only got a 1,300 square foot accessory but the rest of them, I see 6,000. 4,000. 3,000. 4,000. I mean the norm appears to be on this street that you know over time, yeah in excess of 1,000 square feet is the norm for allowing people with out buildings on these lots. Kate Aanenson: Certainly, and I think that’s what the Planning Commission took into consideration when they’re giving the additional 1,000. Again they went through the findings for the variances and struggled with that a little bit. Again we talk about the character on the north side. Again some of them are, have horses. Some don’t. Some had old contractors yards that were permitted at that time. The position that we took when we put together the ordinance, and in 2007 that we saw it as these buildings last a long, long time and these aren’t you know, whether it’s storing things or the next buyer ends up putting a cabinet shop and those are ones that we spend time trying to resolve neighborhood conflicts. Now this went into some of the discussion with the Planning Commission because you have like minded people living next to each other but we do have some situations where they’re not, depending on how the neighborhood navigates. That was one of the reasons why the staff put in there, if the Planning Commission did choose to permit something that they put a condition in there that says that no home occupation be permitted. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Now there was a public hearing at the Planning Commission, is that right? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilman McDonald: Did anyone speak in opposition to the 2,500 foot building itself? Kate Aanenson: No. No. The Planning Commission went through the findings of what they felt was appropriate. 10 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 th Councilman McDonald: Okay, and again the lots on the north side of West 96 Street are smaller because, well there is a wetland up there. Kate Aanenson: Well no. The wetland’s on the south side. Those are just smaller lots. There is a wetland on the, on this side. Councilman McDonald: Okay, on the map it looks as though the lots are smaller. Kate Aanenson: They are. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Kate Aanenson: But it’s not because of the wetlands. They’re just smaller. Councilman McDonald: Okay, it’s just because the lots are smaller. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, the wetland’s in this area. Yes. Councilman McDonald: Now the other thing that you brought up in the findings in the staff report was that, okay what we’re trying to do is to prevent I guess businesses operating on these lots. Is that correct? Kate Aanenson: (Yes). Councilman McDonald: And what you said was that you know if we do allow this, in the future we tend to have a problem if someone decides well I’m going to run a business off of my lot. Is that correct that we have a problem enforcing that? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. There are some, there were some landscaping businesses being operated out of that area and again you have, it’s residential traffic. It’s not set up for commercial type traffic. Some people like to store additional things and part of the point is that we brought into the comprehensive plan, we cited that section to talk about we do provide zoning for those types of, for storage so again those buildings are going to last a long time so over, it’s hard to think that far in the future but as planners, you know you’re looking 20 years down the road and we look at this area, we’re going to have the biggest change in the city in this coming, in this super area in the next 10 to 15 years and I certainly you know is try to find that right balance of certainly if Mr. Riegert could have built his property sooner had he known this he probably would have but we’re just apprising you know that these are the concerns that we have going into the future. Trying to apprise the Planning Commission and the council. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and then the question I’ve got is, we can put a requirement in as part of the variance to limit what could go in. It could only be for personal use, is that correct? Can we do that? Roger Knutson: Yes, you can. Councilman McDonald: Okay. And then could you explain to me where does the problem come in with the enforcement? Is that just because it ends up requiring court action and time and effort to stop any businesses? Roger Knutson: That’s pretty much it but part of it is, these buildings are enclosed and we don’t know what’s happening inside them because we don’t, the only way we normally would find out is on a 11 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 complaint basis. Some, a new person can buy one of these homes with this and not gone through the process, even though the variance is recorded. They don’t know what they shouldn’t do or don’t care and then they all of a sudden you have a wood working shop or you have whatever, a business going on in there. Then you have to take enforcement action. Councilman McDonald: Okay. And so at that point then we would be dependent upon a complaint from the neighbors because of either excess traffic on the road or noise or something along those lines. Roger Knutson: That’s right. We don’t go knocking on doors. Councilman McDonald: Right. Okay, I guess that’s all the questions I had for staff and everybody. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for staff? Ms. Aanenson, a couple of them and keep this picture up. This particular property the acreage for this parcel is 4 acres. Kate Aanenson: 4 acres, correct. Mayor Furlong: About 4 acres and how much, and maybe it was easier to see on an earlier slide but there’s, the wetland on the south side that runs across all these. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. Mayor Furlong: About how, do you have a sense of what the buildable or the non-wetland acreage is on this parcel? Approximately. Is it half or is it? Kate Aanenson: No, it’s probably, maybe if it’s on the first. Here’s the entire parcel. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So it’s quite a bit though. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: So even though it’s 4 acres it’s. Kate Aanenson: Correct. If that was to come in today we would exclude that from the lot calculation. I mean this is an older lot but today we don’t include this in the lot calculation. Mayor Furlong: If it was to come in in a plat. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: You’re saying if we were to plat this the wetland would be delineated and put into an outlot or something and then the parcel would be. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Yeah and they could count it towards the hard coverage but we’d also have it, we’d have a setback from that too. We believe it’s far enough away from the wetland edge but we’d ask for that with the building permit to just make sure based on contours where that would be. We didn’t ask for a delineation. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And the accessory structures, you said this is guided for residential. Single family residential but it’s currently in an Ag zoning. 12 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Kate Aanenson: Correct. It’s actually guided in the, for low density. Assembling. Mayor Furlong: Low density. Kate Aanenson: Yep, so it could be further subdivided. Is the likelihood of that with these structures there in place, probably not in the short term. When I say short term maybe you know. Mayor Furlong: As a planner would say. Kate Aanenson: As a planner would say short term. More than likely because those buildings actually have you know pretty longer life span now that they’re steel. Mayor Furlong: Not just the accessory buildings but the homes as well. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. Yep. Mayor Furlong: Is there in a residential, low density residential is there a limit on accessory structures…? Kate Aanenson: Only by square footage so if you had an accessory structure you could have a couple of them at by 10 by 10 so long as it maximized that 1,000 square feet. Mayor Furlong: Okay, so the 1,000 square feet is the same. Kate Aanenson: Cumulous, yeah. Mayor Furlong: For a low density residential zoning. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Here’s it, so the limit of the ordinance of 1,000 square feet of a single or multiple accessory structures is the same in both the low density residential and in the Ag? Kate Aanenson: Correct. And again going back to that is that long term wise we didn’t see, there’s rural residential lots. There’s not that much Ag that has this type of subdivision on it. The rural residential lots are 2 1/2 acres so. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay. And are those also 1,000 square feet in rural residential? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: How much do we see in terms of variance requests or applications for accessory structures in the large lot or the? Kate Aanenson: Not too many. No. Because once we capped it we’ve seen a couple that had unique, maybe they wanted to go 10 feet over, 20 feet over or you know less than 100 because they needed an RV or something like that but not for this much just straight storage sort of thing. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And the others that are there, those were, those pre-dated the current ordinance? Kate Aanenson: Yeah. 13 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Mayor Furlong: Or at least to the extent we know. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Yes. Mayor Furlong: Did they come through and get building permits for those that we know? Kate Aanenson: Some of them no. Mayor Furlong: Some of them no, okay. Alright. And they, your sense of when the other accessory structures in the neighborhood were built or the last. Kate Aanenson: Well some of these homes were built in, for example this home was built in 1966 so based on the, when we went through all the PUD’s there’s not a lot of building permit records back then when those were put in place. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Kate Aanenson: So again the ones that we have better records on is when they came in and asked for a contractor’s yard which were allowed as a conditional use so some of those propagated other contractors yards in an area where they’re not there permitted or not so. Mayor Furlong: And so, so with contractors yards, if those were approved as a conditional use, are those still with the property? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Or are they. Kate Aanenson: They run with the property unless the City was to go through and to void those for failing to follow the conditions of approval. Mayor Furlong: And does this particular parcel have that conditional use available to it? Kate Aanenson: No. No, no. He’s just using it for storage. He has a business somewhere else so. Mayor Furlong: Right but that doesn’t sit here now? Kate Aanenson: Yep, no it doesn’t. Mayor Furlong: With a prior use was not consistent with that. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then with regard to businesses, and obviously this is a concern when you’re dealing with a residential area even if it’s, regardless of the underlying zoning. I can certainly understand that. Is there, is there a restriction? Any type of home based business? I mean there are some home businesses that we talked about that are acceptable. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes. 14 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Mayor Furlong: Does our ordinance delineate those? Kate Aanenson: Yes, our ordinance specifically, that’s our number one complaint in the city. Throughout the city…any area throughout the city the number one complaint is contractors yards. Whether it’s a landscaping business or the like, that’s probably. They block mailboxes when someone’s running out of their home and typically it’s because people park in front of the house and kind of mobilize for the day but people do piano lessons. People do those sort of things that they can do out of the home and those are regulated in the city’s home occupation ordinance by a number of trips. Number of outside employees. By state law you’re allowed to have daycare. If you have more than 6 then it’s conditional use and we look at how many people are there for help and then where they’re parking. Do they have adequate back out? Those sort of things. Backing up and not blocking traffic. Again when you’re in a residential neighborhood and people are going to school buses and those sort of things, got to make sure we don’t have those kind of conflicting. Obviously there’s probably a neighborhood tolerance in here that people move in and they’re willing to accept some of that if there’s additional trips in this area. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Are there some contractors working in this neighborhood right now that you’re aware of? Kate Aanenson: If you were to look at some of the vehicles parked in the area, I would venture to say. Mayor Furlong: Very likely. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Or perhaps. Okay. Alright. And then I guess this is a question, maybe this is a follow up for Councilman McDonald’s question on enforcement of the neighborhood, or the residential home based businesses. We respond to complaints. What is the level of effort that the City has to go through in responding to that complaint if indeed there was a prohibitive home based business operating? Mr. Knutson. Roger Knutson: If we determine that an unlawful business was operating, you start off by phone calls and letters and tell them to stop it and we’d ask to come over and inspect it. If they wouldn’t let us inspect it then we’d get an administrative search warrant and if we found that they were operating illegally and they wouldn’t stop voluntarily then we go to court. Issue a citation. Mayor Furlong: So there is time and effort and depending on cooperation or lack thereof it could be more in some cases. Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: The Planning Commission, when they made their recommendation which turned out to be a recommendation, one of their conditions was to prohibit the use of a home based business consistent with the ordinance I would assume. Having that in place, is that, I mean is that do anything more than just having our nuisance ordinance in place? Because it’s recorded with the property. Roger Knutson: That’s it. Mayor Furlong: Okay. But there’s additional notice there? Roger Knutson: An average person I would assume doesn’t, when they go to buy a piece of property doesn’t go down to the City and check the zoning ordinance requirements or look at the city code but 15 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 when you have something memorialized on your title hopefully, no guarantees but hopefully that puts you on notice, or it should about what the rules are. Mayor Furlong: Would someone doing a title search or something like that would see that then. Roger Knutson: Yes. If you look on the title it would be right on there memorialized. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this point? If not is, are Mr. and Mrs. Riegert here? Andy Riegert: I am. Mayor Furlong: Oh, would you like, any comments you’d like to make this evening as the applicant? th Andy Riegert: Hi, my name is Andy Riegert. I live at 620 West 96 Street, Chanhassen. I, you know I asked myself what do I like about Chanhassen and a lot of the same stuff comes back to when we were talking about Al and how it’s a small town and we still have a broad base of citizens and a unique characteristic of the town and so I don’t want to be put into a small piece of, you know I don’t want to, I want to be able to have different types of people in this town and I think we’re a unique area obviously and this type of building obviously fits into this area and this was something we planned on doing a long time ago when we wouldn’t have had to go through this process. Unfortunately it didn’t work out at the time but we’re trying to move forward now and I just, I don’t see how it wouldn’t fit in well with the neighborhood. The talk about the home occupation. Well I’ve got three small children and I certainly don’t want people driving in and out of my driveway at all hours of the day and so I don’t know how more to say that that’s not something that I want to do and when you’re talking about it up here I just want to jump up and say you don’t have to worry about that because that’s not at all my intention. I just moved by business out to Waconia for at least 5 years so I have no intention of running my business out of my back yard and quite honestly I don’t want any of my neighbors to either and it’s good. It’s been a good neighborhood and it’s, we don’t have contractors running in and out like some people think so we just kind of like to, we have different hobbies I guess than a lot of people have around the area so, and I think in some of the packets, I don’t know if you have them or not but it shows some of the kind of things that I would look to store in the building which is why I had originally asked for the I think 2,500 square feet or whatever it was so, but when they recommended the 2,000 square foot and then the putting some wording on there about not being able to have a home occupation, that sounds like a good deal to me so I have no problem with that and I think that’s a good compromise so. That’s all I have to say, thanks. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Riegert? Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Then if I understand you correctly then you’re okay with the recommendation the way it is for only a 1,000 foot variance to give you a 2,000 foot building and you’re fine with that? You don’t need the 2,500 square feet then. Andy Riegert: I would like the 2,500 square feet. However I want you to understand that I have no intention to run a home occupation out of this building and if that’s what it takes to prove that then I’m willing to compromise. Councilman McDonald: Okay. No more questions. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. The only comment I’ll make regard to intentions, and our questions about home businesses and such like that, as I’m sure you can appreciate. When we’re looking at this or especially city staff are looking at things, they’re looking very long term and knowing that you’re not 16 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 going to be the only owner of this property forever and so at the time you sell there’ll be somebody else buying it and their intentions may be different than what your’s are today and so when we’re looking at this and considering this, we need to be thinking of long term. Andy Riegert: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Because these buildings will last a long time. I mean that’s the intention. You put a large investment into them when you erect them and you expect them to last a number of years and perhaps after you own the property too so that’s why, so I’m just explaining why we’re asking those questions. Andy Riegert: No, fair enough. I understand. Mayor Furlong: You know your intentions may change or more importantly, and even if they don’t, you may not be the owner of the property while the building is still here so. Andy Riegert: Yeah, and I’d be willing to put a window in so you can look in and see what’s in there. Mayor Furlong: I think we have an ordinance against that, don’t we? People looking in windows. I don’t know. Sergeant. Okay, very good. Thank you. Oh, question for the applicant? Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, just a question. Andy can you just talk a little bit about what you’ve done to prepare this space for this building and what you’ve done and when did you do that. Andy Riegert: Yeah, I moved in in 1998 and I think it was the following summer, I got a permit to put in a second driveway so I hired a contractor to do all the excavation and bring in like a crushed rock for all the driveway and then we had a pad leveled, you can kind of see it on the picture but it’s kind of rough and grainy but about 80 by 100 pad with a gravel surface so basically flatten it all out and just got it ready for it and then due to financial concerns we just put the project on hold so, until we wanted to move forward now and that’s when we discovered there was a change in the ordinance. Councilman Laufenburger: So in your view the pad is essentially it’s construction ready. Andy Riegert: Yeah. Yep. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Andy. Andy Riegert: Thanks. Councilman McDonald: So can I follow up on that then is the pad set up for the 2,500 square foot? Andy Riegert: Yeah, it is. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Riegert? Thank you. Andy Riegert: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: There was a public hearing held at the Planning Commission so unless there’s any significant changes between the Planning Commission and here, I don’t know that we need to have public comment this evening, unless that’s up to the council. There was some and I appreciate the residents who did come and speak at the Planning Commission for their comments as well. With that, any follow up 17 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 questions that people have of staff or any thoughts or comments on this request? Councilman McDonald, thoughts? Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I have some thoughts on this. I mean initially whenever I saw this you know I wasn’t in favor of the variance because, well I’m just not in favor of giving out variances but then when I looked at all the properties in the neighborhood and everything and I see that everybody else has got something on there it’s like, it wouldn’t be fair to this gentleman to restrict him to the 1,000 square foot, especially when all of his neighbors already exceed all of that. And again the property at this particular point in town is very unique in the way that it’s laid out and what the people do with the properties and what their expectations are with the properties so you know in looking at this I guess I probably differ from what the Planning Commission would have come up with. I would be in favor of again going to the full 2,500 square foot. You know the restrictions that we looked at, I would be willing to keep those in place to give us some protection within the city because again ownership does change hands but I really see no reason not to grant the 1,500 square foot variance that the homeowner actually requested. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any thoughts or comments? Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: I just, I admire Mr. Riegert. He moved in in ’98. A year later he drew a permit. Now maybe that was, I’m not going to call it naivety on his part because obviously some of his neighbors didn’t draw permits for some of the things that they wanted but here’s a guy who wanted to do everything you know legally so to speak and I’m pleased that he’s willing to accept a compromise of 2,000 square feet but I kind of favor Mr. McDonald’s thought of even 2,560 square feet which I think is the, it’s a rectangular building. I’m not sure what the measurements are. 40 by 60 or something. 42 by 60 but that certainly falls within the range of the other buildings in this area and so I’m in favor of granting the variance and I’m kind of leaning towards the 1,560 square foot variance versus that which came from the Planning Commission. That’s just my thoughts. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other thoughts and comments. Councilwoman Ernst. Councilwoman Ernst: I would also be in favor of supporting the 1,560 square foot variance. I mean I haven’t heard where it would create, where it’s going against any Minnesota code or where you know there’s any complications there and I feel that he’s followed all the right paths and the conditions are really stated in here so as long as we have the conditions in here as Councilman McDonald referred to, I see no problem supporting the 1,560 square foot. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom, any comments? Councilwoman Tjornhom: No, I concur with Councilman McDonald and Laufenburger. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thanks. The, quick question Ms. Aanenson. On the condition as it’s laid out here, I think it’s in the staff report, page 7 where it says the condition for the accessory structure may not be used for the purpose of a home occupation as defined in the Chanhassen City Code. Does our code say any home occupation and then excludes ones that are allowed or how is the code set up? Is it, is this wording sufficient for what I’m sensing the intent of the council and the Planning Commission was? 18 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Roger Knutson: I believe it is. It specifies what home occupations are allowed and what aren’t allowed and this is not zoned commercial so, the only sort of commercial use you could have there are home occupation. So if you don’t allow home occupations then no commercial activity can take place there. Kate Aanenson: If I can clarify that. Accessory structures are not, you cannot do a home occupation in accessory structure. It has to be in the principle structure so. Mayor Furlong: In any accessory structure you cannot have a home occupation? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Roger Knutson: And that’s because of the concern that, a home occupation’s supposed to be small, contained and still supposed to look like a home and when you start adding. Mayor Furlong: You start adding on… Roger Knutson: Yes, when you start putting them in the garage and you start putting them in the accessory structures, then they take on a life of their own. Mayor Furlong: Then it’s time. Roger Knutson: It becomes a real commercial use. Mayor Furlong: To relocate the business to a place where it’s zoned for businesses. Roger Knutson: Yes sir. Mayor Furlong: Okay so any home occupancy or home based home occupation, and that would also include any other types of businesses as well within the accessory structure or is that all inclusive? Roger Knutson: Other than home occupations, commercial uses of this property are already prohibited. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Roger Knutson: Because it’s, the way it’s zoned. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor I have just a question of Kate. What restrictions, or not restrictions but what, what can Andy, besides building this structure, what else can he add to the structure? For example can he bring electric utility to the structure? Kate Aanenson: People often do. Councilman Laufenburger: Can he bring water to the structure? Kate Aanenson: People often do. Councilman Laufenburger: Is there anything that would prohibit from doing that? Kate Aanenson: No. 19 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Councilman Laufenburger: Can he bring natural gas to the structure? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Councilman Laufenburger: So he can bring any utility that he chooses as long as it, as long as the construction complies with the code. Kate Aanenson: Correct. The thing that we would look for if it becomes a living space then you can’t have two living spaces so if someone was to put in more than a bath and kitchenette, that sort of thing then we would look at that. Councilman Laufenburger: But I’m thinking, you know he wants to you know snowmobile. He wants to possibly do some maintenance. I think he said that he has an auto refurbishing business, hobby. Andy Riegert: Hobby, yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah hobby, but he may, electricity I could see. Gas to have an interior heater of some sort, okay. Alright, thank you. Councilman McDonald: Mayor if I could, could I follow up on Mr. Laufenburger. Then by having the building permit, that would give us the assurances that this doesn’t turn into an auxiliary living space, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Yes, assuming permits are done, yep. Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you. Mayor Furlong: And I understand and generally concur with the comments made by the council in terms of this in large part because of the current zoning of agricultural versus residential, even though it’s guided for that, and also I think when we look at the neighborhood as it exists. If I’m not mistaken I think this is the only property on the south side of the road, at least within the picture we received, that does not have an accessory structure and I think the smallest one was 1,300 if I’m not mistaken, and maybe that’s just the width of the picture you know so I. Kate Aanenson: …based on our computer. Mayor Furlong: Based on computers and such like that so certainly within the neighborhood it makes sense. I think the challenge here for the council is, and I appreciate and understand your comments is, is this an ordinance that needs to be reviewed or is the variance process the process that we want to work with here? If, because what I’m hearing is, it makes sense. It’s reasonable. With the variance process there are standards that we need to consider. Practical difficulties and consistencies with general purposes of the chapter and the comp plan and there are, those are some challenges. Now in the current zoning it works, and the guiding it would be a challenge and so I think that’s a question for the council. If this becomes an issue, that it may be something that we have to look at and understand why we have our ordinance the way we do and perhaps the benefit of having the ordinance at 1,000 and going through the variance process is it allows us then to apply certain conditions which, as Mr. Knutson said gives more awareness to future property owners. Certainly it’s clear to the current property owners of what can and can’t be done there and we’re seeing some problems and maybe that is the benefit of having the process. 20 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Kate Aanenson: Yeah I was just going to, thank you Mayor. That’s what I was going to point out is I think if we went back and looked at those issues of why we brought that up and we specifically identified neighborhoods. We don’t have that many that are, you know agricultural transitional zones so if you look in areas of the city where you look at ultimately urbanizing, it does affect development patterns so there’s not that many that are unique like this. Most of these other large lot neighborhoods are zoned, and have already been subdivided for large lots so this is a very unique and if you wanted to revisit that issue paper I think that might be something you might want to take up under a work session. Mayor Furlong: Right, right and going forward. I think to the extent that it is rather isolated is helpful. And I guess I will make just one comment and that’s a note of thanks to our Planning Commission members. Having read through the minutes you could tell that there was some challenges that they had trying to come up with looking at something that, I’m reading into their comments, seemed very reasonable on the surface but it didn’t fit the ordinance and we challenged them and appreciate the work that they do following the ordinance and I think that is the thing that we expect them to do and so I thank them for that so I don’t want to see this action viewed as somehow not understanding what the Planning Commission members went through and their thoughtful recommendation as well. Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: One more thought. If we were to grant a variance of 1,560 square feet, that means he could build up to that amount. He wouldn’t have to build that full amount. He could build 2,000. He could build 1,000 if he wanted. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: In fact he could build 1,000 in this building and then he could build another accessory structure that would be no larger than 1,560. Am I saying that right Mr. Knutson? Roger Knutson: You’re approving a specific building. Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, okay. So this building. Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Is, okay. Kate Aanenson: Mayor I just want to circle back to one more point where you talked about, that issue paper. What we’re talking about today is looking at a specific lot but part of that issue paper talked at kind of that nexus and what’s that relationship between lot size and a maximum so that was the other rational basis to say you know let’s understand what this is being used for. What should be that maximum and the circumstance you’re looking at character it sits in the neighborhood which is appropriate for the variance process but you know I think that’s the tipping point kind of saying well what makes sense for that neighborhood basis which is why they said a variance process when you could take that input from the neighbors and that process. Mayor Furlong: So what that is telling me is that the process here, while it may be onerous and time consuming it is a public process that does have benefits in terms of making sure that the neighbors know what’s going on. We heard at the Planning Commission that they spoke in favor of it. That it gives staff, the Planning Commission and the council the opportunity to look at the neighborhood and make sure something different than just what’s allowed by ordinance because if somebody wants to fit within ordinance they can just do it without public notice. Any public hearings. Any of the process. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. 21 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 Mayor Furlong: So there is value from a, perhaps again I guess value might be the wrong word but there is a public purpose to what has gone on here. Mr. McDonald, and then we’ll move on. Councilman McDonald: I guess Mr. Mayor, yeah. If I could just add. You know I kind of agree with what Ms. Aanenson said and everything. Again when I looked at this I did look at the neighborhood and it’s like what’s the norm within the neighborhood. If there had been no other out buildings on any of these lots, well I would have been probably against all of this because at that point I mean you’re putting a 2,500 square foot out building in an area that is going to stand out but that’s not what the applicant is doing so I think the process that we’ve got in place is fine and the Planning Commission did what they’re supposed to do. They evaluated this based upon the ordinances and based upon what they could do and then sent it up to the Planning Commission with their findings and everything from which we can make a determination of do we accept their recommendation or not. So I like that part of the process and again as you said, we did put the neighborhood on notice. There was a public meeting. Everyone is aware of all of this. Again one of the questions I asked was, does anyone you know contest it or protest and the answer is no so it’s very acceptable that something like this you know fits into the neighborhood so I like the process I guess and just getting to your point, do we need to relook at this. I would say probably not. As you pointed out, yeah if you want to stay within the ordinance go ahead and build up to 1,000 square feet but anything above that we probably do need to look at the neighborhood. Is that going to fit? Let’s make sure that it is compliant within the area so I guess that’s why I would just argue that maybe we don’t need to look at anything. Mayor Furlong: And that’s possible. I think the other advantages I mentioned too is that it allows conditions to be included if a variance is approved and those conditions can be helpful in terms of future property owners as well. Thank you. If there’s no other comments I would certainly stand. Councilman McDonald: If I could I will do the motion. Mayor Furlong: Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I make a motion that the Chanhassen City Council approves Planning Case #2012-10 for a 1,560 foot accessory structure variance subject to conditions outlined in the staff report and adoption of the attached Planning Commission Findings of Fact. Mayor Furlong: Actually these are being revised tonight. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Roger Knutson: Revising the numbers. Councilman McDonald: Revising the numbers accordingly. Councilwoman Ernst: Second. Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Is there any future discussion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote. Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the Chanhassen City Council approves Planning Case #2012-10 for a 1,560 square foot accessory structure variance from the 1,000 square foot accessory structure limitation to allow for a 2,560 square foot accessory structure, 22 Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012 subject to the following conditions and adoption of the attached Planning Commission Findings of Fact, revising the numbers accordingly: 1. The accessory structure will require a building permit. 2. The accessory structure must comply with Minnesota State Building Code. 3. Outdoor storage must comply with City Code. 4. The accessory structure may not be used for the purpose of a home occupation as defined in the Chanhassen City Code. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. None. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. None. CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. None. Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 8:20 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 23