PRC 2012 10 23 CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 23, 2012
Chairman Cole Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Tom Kelly, Cole Kelly, Elise Ryan, Peter Aldritt, and Jim Boettcher. Steve
Scharfenberg arrived after Approval of Minutes.
MEMBERS ABSENT: Brent Carron
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent;
and Mitch Johnson, Recreation Supervisor
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Will Van Sant 4175 Lakeridge Road
Alex Nyerenko 4731 Wilshire Boulevard
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Approved as presented. •
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Cole Kelly: Doesn't look like we have any public announcements tonight so we'll move on to, or visitor
presentations.
Hoffman: One announcement is the Halloween Party on Saturday night.
Johnson: Yep, this Saturday, 5:30 to 7:30. Just a reminder. It's the fourth of our four community events
we offer each year. 5:30 to 7:30. I think Cole said last month that he's interested in volunteering. If
anybody else is available to volunteer we could certainly use your help so, or bring out the family and
your neighbors too.
Cole Kelly: Okay, thank you Mitch.
Hoffman: Roll call.
Cole Kelly: Yeah, present Elise Ryan, Tom Kelly, Jim Boettcher and Peter Aldritt. Missing tonight is
Brent Carron and Steve Scharfenberg.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Cole Kelly: Any changes to the Minutes from last week for anybody?
Tom Kelly: I move to approve the.
Cole Kelly: Oh, let me put in one change real quick and then you can do that. Sony. I was waiting for
somebody to say something.
Tom Kelly: We were waiting for you to say something.
Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
Cole Kelly: I'm hoping somebody will make a change one day besides me. On page 11, Last paragraph.
We made $4,000 as opposed to the rowboat $190,000. They put a period and no dollar sign with the 190.
The period should go away. We need a dollar sign for the 190 dollars and we need a dollar sign for the
500. Oh no, we have 500 bucks so that's the only changes. Get rid of the period and add the dollar sign.
Tom, go ahead.
Tom Kelly: Motion to approve the minutes.
Boettcher: Second.
Tom Kelly moved, Boettcher seconded to approve the verbatim and summary minutes of the Park
and Recreation Commission meeting dated September 25, 2012 as amended by Cole Kelly on page
11 of the verbatim minutes. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5
to 0.
2012 PICNIC RESERVATION PROGRAM OVERVIEW.
Cole Kelly: Looks like we're going to start with the, Jerry and the picnic site evaluation. Oops and
noted, Steve Scharfenberg is now present.
Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly, good evening everyone. We had another great year for 2012 picnic
reservation season. We did have a total reservation, paid reservations of 113 and that's down slightly
from 122 and that was an all time high last year so we're down just slightly on that but we did take in a
bit more revenue with those picnics so that's a good thing. We did host a number of different events from
family reunions, weddings, graduation parties, baptisms, school parties, company functions, that sort of
thing so we do have a wide variety of picnic offerings and picnic reservations here. Again the most
popular site is the, was the Hilltop shelter at Lake Ann. Second, the Lakeside Pavilion at Lake Ann and
Lake Susan is third with that. We did generate over $14,000 in revenue between the 3 picnic sites so
we're pleased with that and that was slightly over 11,000 picnickers between the 3 sites with that, and
those are just paid reservations. Not just, you know there's a lot of other reservations that go on or other
people using the facilities on a non - rental basis so just kind of go up and show up with the family, kind of
first come first serve on some of those evening nights and weekends when the sites aren't being used so
that number is higher obviously for the number of participants using the site so we're very lucky to have 3
really wonderful sites within our system and people really do take advantage of that and really enjoy Lake
Ann and Lake Susan. You know attached is kind of the breakdown that we include every year with that
and it kind of goes through each fee structure or category and then it breaks down between the Lakeside,
the Lake Susan, and the Hilltop shelters Monday through Sunday so you can kind of see where the
numbers ended up for the week versus the weekend. The weekend, the weekday rates is Monday through
Thursday and then Friday through Sunday is the weekend rates for that. Attached is the picnic site
reservation fees that were in place for the 2012 season and we'll be reviewing those in either November
or at the December meeting to take a look at 2013 with that. As the Park and Rec Commission does
know the City Council did act to rename the Hilltop shelter the Al Klingelhutz Memorial Pavilion so staff
has made the changes, naming changes on the City website already to reflect the new name change and
other information that the public sees as relates to our picnic sites, and then staff will be helping to
coordinate a dedication ceremony in 2013. Most likely probably next spring sometime with that so, so
stay in touch with that, in tune with that. We'll get you some more information as we kind of get that
information put together. So again 2012 was a successful season in staff's eyes. We have a lot of
positive people, have positive experiences with that. Certainly the Park and Rec Commission did see
many of the positive comments within the evaluations that did come back that periodically have been
sprinkled in your admin section so we're certainly trying to make everybody's experience a quality
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Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
experience and we certainly hope we're doing the right things and it seems like people are happy and
coming back on an annual basis so I'll entertain any questions at this point from the commission.
Cole Kelly: Questions for Jerry.
Tom Kelly: I do have a couple. One, do we not rent out Lake Susan on Sundays?
Ruegemer: We do not. Do not rent out Lake Susan. We have a baseball program down there on Sundays
that is quite, kind of a large group down there and we just found it, there wasn't enough space for both
activities at the same time.
Tom Kelly: Sure, okay. And a question too is with the renaming of the Hilltop, will it be really obvious
on the website that it is still associated with Lake Ann?
Ruegemer: You bet.
Tom Kelly: Thanks.
Ryan: I have one question. When you put the numbers together do you break down the type of event for
each location as well or can you do that? Like birthday party versus school function.
Ruegemer: I did not do that for here but by, we could break that down by category.
Ryan: Okay. That'd be just interesting to see what kind of events you're hosting at each pavilion or area.
Aldritt: I have one question. Where does the money go that is raised for the reservations?
Ruegemer: It goes right back into the general fund as revenue.
Cole Kelly: Jerry, are we happy with the prices we're charging? Do we review that internally and you
know what are your thoughts on it?
Ruegemer: You know certainly we'll certainly take a look at that in the next couple months but staff
certainly tries to keep on top of neighboring communities. Three Rivers Park District facilities, that sort
of thing. You know compared to Chaska and even Eden Prairie we're on the higher end of our picnic fees
compared to our neighboring communities but we feel that we have quality facilities and justifiably so.
Cole Kelly: Any other questions for Jerry? Thank you Jerry. Let's see, anybody want to bring up any
old business for any reason? I don't see any listed. We'll move on to reports.
RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS:
BANDIMERE DISC GOLF TOURNAMENT EVALUATION.
Johnson: Thank you Chair Kelly and good evening commissioners. Back on Saturday, October 6 we
had our first annual disc golf tournament at the new disc golf course. It was a great way to kind of you
know get some energy and buzz around the new facility out there. It was a great day. Pretty cold, windy
day. Commissioner Kelly was out there with his son Jack and we had a lot of warm days and of course
the tournament fell on a cold, windy day but it was fun. We had 35 people out there. 36 is our max
capacity so pretty happy with our first event. Went a little bit long. Kind of looking at seeing how we
can redo the format. We kind of did some things, we kind of did pool play and then a single elimination
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Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
tournament and maybe I kind of heard some people talking maybe it got a little long. I don't know if it
was because of the weather or what but always looking to try to improve that perhaps. We had 3 age
groups. We had a 12 and under which Commissioner Kelly's son won so that was pretty exciting. We
had 7 players in that age group, 13 to 17 we had 12 players and we had 16 players in the 18 and over
category. The winners of each age group won prizes. Sets of discs that we purchased for those and then
we also had a closest to the pin competition that we purchased prizes for. Had a couple door prizes that
we raffled off and then the winners also got little trophy's that we had to commemorate the first annual
event. Did some marketing. I was on a lot of websites trying to post information. I don't know how
effective it was. Most of our registrations came when I extended the registration deadline. I did an early
bird registration and it was $10 a person to a certain point and then it was $15 a person and I think I have
on the back there, we only had 5 early birds and we had 30 late registrations so kind of evaluate that and
see if it's worth the while to kind of do similar. So yeah, but it was a great event. Really got a lot of
energy. A lot of people that were there played the course over and over. I think the 18 over category, the
top 4 were from all over. Hutch, Glencoe, St. Boni so people are traveling to Chanhassen just to play the
course and be part of the tournament so looking in the future to maybe offer one in the spring and then
continue the one in the fall and maybe do some leagues. Kind of organize some stuff in the summer just
to kind of keep the excitement out there. A few other recommendations on the bottom there. We
provided commemorated discs with everybody that we personalized with a tournament logo on. It was
pretty reasonably priced once you buy them in large quantities. Our first order was a little smaller so it
got a little expensive but I think it was about $6 -$7 a disc so we can still make some profit and kind of a
way to get our name out there as well. Perhaps look at getting some sponsors. You know disc golf's still
pretty new in town but you know hopefully now we're kind of building some steam with it and we can
get some local businesses to help cover some costs and for the purchasing of the prizes. Maybe do some
snacks and refreshments. It was a long day. One of the parents was nice enough, went to Kwik Trip and
got a case of water and kind of some treats and stuff for people that were out there all day. And then
maybe if we can, you know if the registrations keep getting up maybe we can expand maybe on Saturday
morning we do one age group. Saturday afternoon we do another one just to kind of get more people out
there. We did a shotgun start and with a 9 hole course, we start with 4 at each hole so kind of 36 is your
max at one time just to kind of keep things moving but so, it was a great event. I had fun. Hopefully
Commissioner Kelly and everybody else had fun. The last round was kind of voted a championship
round. I think we had about 20 -25 people kind of following the last group. It was kind of like the PGA
tour. It was kind of fun. Got some good pictures and stuff. You can see the expenses on the back and the
revenue. My goal was to break even. We ended up making 10 bucks. I figure since it was the first
annual event kind of make it you know want people to get excited about it and stuff so. Be happy to
answer any questions anybody would have about the disc golf tournament.
Cole Kelly: Questions for Mitch.
Tom Kelly: I just want to say, this isn't a question. I just want to say, and I mentioned this to Todd and
Jerry, it was an incredibly well run event. You had this thing organized to a T and I just want to seriously
congratulate you on a fantastic event. Everyone had a great time. I was hearing kids coming up to you
saying how about this spring. How about this spring. And don't downplay what you did at the end. I
want to explain what happened at the end. He had 3 championship rounds. He had the 18 and over. He
had the 13 to 17 and the 12 and under pairs so he grouped them all into one big sixum, for lack of a better
word, and there was a gallery that followed these players around hole to hole so you have 12 year olds, 13
year olds, 14 year olds that are having adults follow them watching them play disc golf and it was just a
really, really cool event and these kids, because the two guys that were 18 and over were really, really
good. Especially the guy that won and to see these kids watching these older people play, it was the way
you ended it was fantastic. I just want to say overall it was a great, great, great job.
Johnson: Well thank you very much.
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Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
Cole Kelly: Mitch, you mentioned you might want to expand the numbers because I think you wanted
36. You were pretty close to your goal. So just an idea. If you decide you want to expand the numbers
you might want to look at a 50 and over age group or maybe 40 and over because you know you get into
the 19 to 30 range and those kids probably have been playing it for years. You get into my range and you
go well I'm kind of interested in playing it but I've never played it and I can't compete with that kind of
group. And another thing, if you do something like that, what you might want to do is have the older
people come out for a seminar beforehand. So just some thoughts.
Johnson: Yeah, absolutely.
Cole Kelly: But very nice job.
Johnson: Okay, thank you very much.
Tom Kelly: Just a note on that, I would not have had a chance at 45 and over age group so. Sounds good
in theory but I would have gotten blown away in that age group.
Cole Kelly: Like I said 50 and over. Next year we might even make it a different category. Oh, one
other question. Did Chuck and Lyle get invited?
Johnson: They did. Yep, I emailed them and never heard anything back.
Cole Kelly: Never heard anything back, okay.
Johnson: No I didn't so.
Cole Kelly: Okay, great.
Johnson: There was a big tournament, maybe Tom knows, there's a big tournament, kind of a high level
tournament that same weekend in Minneapolis somewhere or down south that maybe some of those top
level players went to but.
Cole Kelly: Okay, thank you. And I think we stay right with you Mitch on ChanJam.
CHANJAM PREVIEW.
Johnson: Yep, thank you Chair Kelly. ChanJam, this is the fifth year. It started in '08, Battle of the
Bands competition with high school bands. To date we've had zero register unfortunately but from what
I've heard it kind of sounds like it's always a last minute, day before get some bands in. Hoping to get at
least 5. Max is 10 for the entire event. Word of mouth is the biggest way to kind of get these bands in
and kind of get some excitement up. Working with the local high schools. Kind of the local music
venues. I'm working with a place in Hopkins that has a lot of high school bands get to come in free and
play on weekends so he's spreading the word for us and getting the fliers and stuff out. Winners, we have
3 judges that judge the competition and then they win scholarships, recording studio time to you know
different music camps and stuff and also play at the 4th of July celebration so it's been a great event.
We're out at the Chanhassen High School. We'll make a little bit of profit just on the registrations. No
registration, or no fee to register to play but the spectators pay $5 to get in. You can save a dollar by
getting a non - perishable food item that we donate. It's been a great event. Looking to kind of continue
this on and the high school I think was a great venue that we started last year and it's got some kind of
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Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
professional lighting and the sound acoustics and stuff are a little better than the Rec Center that they had
before so. It should be a fun event though.
Cole Kelly: Any questions for Mitch? Good luck with it. Look forward to hearing how it goes.
Johnson: Thank you.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
Cole Kelly: And do we have any commission member reports tonight or presentations?
Ryan: I don't have a presentation but I was curious if there was any update on the vandalism on the
playground.
Hoffman: Nothing to report as far as discovering who did the vandalism. It's been in the Chanhassen
Villager, on our Facebook, and it stopped so that's a good sign so kids figured out that we're going to
take a look at them. But no progress in the investigation...
Cole Kelly: Anything else from anyone?
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Cole Kelly: Mitch already talked about the Halloween party so I don't think he needs to discuss that
again and ChanJam so we've got the information on it. And then last night the City Council pulled out
$200,000 to finish the Rice Marsh Lake trail loop for next year so they, they did a motion and passed it
where they transferred funds to a number of places and $200,000 went into the trail so we'll get that done
next year and we applaud and thank the City Council for their foresight of finding money for us to get that
done next year. Any questions?
Tom Kelly: So that's not coming out of our CIP money?
Cole Kelly: Nope, not coming out of our budget.
Tom Kelly: Where did the money come from? Is it the cable money?
Cole Kelly: Yeah.
Hoffman: Yep.
Cole Kelly: They voted last night on the cable money and most of it went into streets and roads I believe
Todd, and then they carved out $200,000 for the trail.
Hoffman: It was a combination of funds. Cable dollars and some other dollars.
Cole Kelly: And I don't know that we have anything else to comment, do we Todd?
Hoffman: Just a couple of updates. I've not received any inquiries from the letter. I have spoken to
about half of those property owners on the Rice Marsh trail loop in the past. The easement's been in
place for 40 years so most of them know it's out there and that the trail is on it's way. The maps are
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Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
pretty descriptive that were included. We will work with any of the property owners that want to take a
personal walk out on the property to take a look at how the trail is going to affect their particular
residence. The Riley Ridge park trail was paved, or trails were paved last Thursday. Tomorrow you'll
see Highway 41, the trail along the highway paved and so it will be paved on Wednesday of this week.
Portable restrooms, all portable restrooms in the city park system will be removed by Friday with the
exception of the skate park and then the 3 public boat accesses for winter activities. We will be skipping
any fall tree planting. We typically plant a number of trees in the fall but due to the drought and the dry
soils we just want to be putting trees into the earth this time of year with those dry soils. We just don't
want to risk losing those trees. It's not worth taking that risk in that type of an investment. And then
yesterday Jill Sinclair and I attended an Emerald Ash Borer workshop for half a day and really we learned
a lot of interesting things. Primarily what they're advocating, and these were all folks from east of us in
the United States that have lived through this or currently experiencing Emerald Ash Borer. Their
recommendation is to start treating trees that are in public right -of -ways that are worth saving. Allow the
other ones to you know to perish in the disease once it gets here when the Emerald Ash Borer gets here.
And then to start encouraging private property owners to start treating their ash trees in their private
property yards that they would like to save. The Emerald Ash Borer is already here. It's in the St. Paul
area and it will start moving around and it'll take 2, 3, 4 years to reach that critical level when it can really
explode so he says what will happen is your entire Minneapolis /St. Paul community here will get lulled to
sleep a little bit and then all of a sudden it will just go like a shock wave and it won't travel 2 miles a year.
It'll travel 10 to 15 miles a year and he says then 4 years after that occurrence takes place, all your ash
trees will be dead. 100% mortality so there's really nothing we can do except start to mitigate, which we
already have. You're familiar with the programs we're doing at Lake Ann and in other areas but we need
to start accelerating that program so Jill and I will be bringing some reports back to the Environmental
Commission, the Park Commission. Another interesting note is that this is also water resource dollars.
One 12 inch ash tree in a rain event will capture 1,100 gallons of water in a single rain event so in Aurora,
Illinois they lost the majority of their ash trees and not only did that just make the community look like a
completely different place, their downstream neighbor, the County who takes their stormwater said hey,
we're going to raise your stormwater rates by 33% because your sending down so much more water and
they couldn't figure it out but it was of course the ash trees that are no longer there capturing that water.
Now they're floating a $12 million dollar bond to cut down those ash trees. 8,000 dead standing ash trees
in their community so significant impact. Be aware. Read up when you see news on it. We'll bring you
some information on it. Jill Sinclair has all of our ash trees in all of our park areas inventoried on a GIS
database and so we know where they are so we know what the impact will be as far as treatment and
those type of things but be aware. Take a look. Talk to your neighbors. Talk about ash trees. Save the
ones that are worth saving. Typically they're recommending that you're going to save that ash tree in a
public park or boulevard setting for somewhere between 10 and 20 to 25 years and so you're going to
treat it for 10 or 20 to 25 years. Treatment is about $4 per caliper inch per year so if you have a 12 inch
tree you're going to spend $50 bucks per year to treat that tree. Over the life of that tree if you save it you
know for 20 years, you're spending $1,000 in treatment. But the alternative is just to lose them all at once
and then you'll be overwhelmed and so all of their calculations say it's cheaper and just better for your
community, better for the health of your community, better for the psyche of the community to start
treating trees. At least the good ones and then let the other ones go.
Tom Kelly: Is the treatment a spray? Is it a spray once a season or?
Hoffman: It's a variety. There's a tree bark spray or there's a soil drench that you put at the base of the
soil or there is actually a foliage spray that you can spray. Most likely, or then there's an injection. We'll
be doing mostly either bark spray or soil drench and then the insecticide is taken up into the tree.
Tom Kelly: And it's one treatment per.
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Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
Hoffman: Per spring.
Tom Kelly: Per spring.
Aldritt: Why do they keep treating once the ash borer moves through?
Hoffman: Why would you treat? It's still going to be around.
Aldritt: ...if all the trees get wiped out.
Hoffman: Yeah, once the trees die it does drop right down and so, but they'll still be around in the area
and the trees will still beat risk. You know it's like a wall of fire going off but they can still come back.
They're still at risk. They're still hanging around.
Boettcher: If you plant new trees, after they've come through, do you have to treat those the same way?
Hoffman: You would if you plant new ash.
Boettcher: You would again.
Hoffman: Yep, but they feel through this they're eventually going to come up with a resistant ash tree
just like they did the elm trees so, but it's a devastating loss. Other environmental issues in Minnesota,
the ash forest, the ash swamps, black ash swamps up north, they'll lose all of their ash trees. The water
levels will rise dramatically because the trees aren't there soaking up the water. The water temperatures
will rise quite dramatically and that will affect downstream, stream habitat, fisheries and those type of
things so significant issue. Marty Walsh at the Regional Park, he says we'll lose 30 to 40 percent of our
canopy at the park. It will open it up. It will make it feel like just about a completely different place once
that comes through. They profiled a cemetery in, outside of Chicago that has 100 24 inch ash or larger
dead in their cemetery. $250,000 to take them down. They can't afford it. They just shut off the
cemetery. Nobody can go in. Nobody can go out. Can't bury anybody. Trees are falling on the
headstones. Just no economical way to take care of the problem so got to plan and take a look ahead.
Cole Kelly: Anybody have anything else for Todd? Todd one question, any updates on Pioneer Pass? Is
the grass growing well or with this rain we're not getting, when are we going to know if we're going to be
able to put a park in there next year or the year after?
Hoffman: Next spring. May. We've seen very little growth this year so we'll wait til spring. I, right
now I think when we contact the neighborhood again we're going to be telling them that that playground
will be going in 2014 and that Riley Ridge will happen in 2013. There's just no way around that. We
can't get it completed next year so.
Cole Kelly: Okay, thank you Todd.
Hoffman: Thank you.
Cole Kelly: Anybody else have anything? Anybody have a motion for me?
Scharfenberg moved, Tom Kelly seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting
was adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
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Park and Recreation Commission — September 25, 2012
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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