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9. 1993 park acquisition and dev CIP i . ci CITYOF . t 1 • OE ANNA SSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 1 (612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739 Action by (' ' Adrgn' t iT 1 MEMORANDUM t, _ - =.-. TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager P -._J_? -_ 9 v 1 FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator -79 tr.::: .,,- - <- Da te ° ,. • to t,o ,x, c u " 1 DATE: December 4, 1992 -� �_ S)— SUBJ: Proposed 1993 Function 410 Park Acquisition and Development Capital 1 Improvement Program (CIP) 1 The Park and Recreation Commission developed the attached proposed 1993 Park Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP) over two meetings in August of this year. On its completion, the commission unanimously approved a motion made by Commissioner 1 Andrews and seconded by Commissioner Koubsky on August 25, 1992, to recommend the City Council approve the 1993 Park Acquisition and Development CIP totalling $150,000 as itemized. As you are aware, I am comfortable with the improvements proposed in the CIP and the I expenditures they represent. One caveat to this statement, however, is that I will not hesitate to make a recommendation at any time to reduce expenditures if 1993 revenue forecasts fall behind. History indicates that this should not be the case, however, considering the cash on hand levels I in the Park Acquisition and Development Fund (the fund is still healthy and carries all of its reserves, but is reduced from recent years), the fund is being monitored closely. Upon I communicating this, it is staff's recommendation that the City Council approve the 1993 Park Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program presented by the Park and Recreation Commission. 1 Attachments I 1. Proposed 1993 Function 410 Park Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program. 2. Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated August 11 and 25, 1992. 1 1 1 Is P4 w PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER PROPOSED 1993 FUNCTION 410 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT 1 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM AUGUST, 1992 I Bandimere Community Park I Wood Identification Sign $ 400.00 Bandimere Heights Park Swings $ 1,500.00 Bluff Creek Park Carver Beach Park Grills (2) $ 400.00 I Picnic Tables (2) $ 1,300.00 Swimming Buoys & Signage (Mini Beach) $ 1,500.00 Carver Beach Playground I Bleacher $ 1,400.00 Chanhassen Estates Mini Park I Chanhassen Hills Park 1 Half Court Basketball $ 2,500.00 Trees 1,000.00 Chanhassen Pond Park Wood Park Identification Sign $ 250.00 1 Repair Observation Platform 2,000.00 City Center Park I Curry Farms Park Trees $ 500.00 Swing Set $ 1,500.00 Greenwood Shores Park Grill $ 200.00 II Herman Field Park Wood Park Identification Sign $ 200.00 II Lake Ann Park I First Aid Supplies $ 400.00 Lifeguard Room Equipment $ 1,500.00 1 1 1 Rescue Board $ 500.00 Freezer $ 400.00 Refrigerator $ 500.00 1 Microwave $ 300.00 Menu Boards $ 300.00 Building Supplies & Equipment $ 3,000.00 ' Row Boats (2) $ 1,300.00 Canoes (3) $ 1,200.00 Paddle Boats (2) $ 1,600.00 Life Jackets (20) $ 500.00 Canoe Paddles (10) $ 200.00 Play -aks (6) $ 1,800.00 Play -aks Paddles (8) $ 200.00 Outboard Motor $ 750.00 ' Shelter Landscaping $ 1,500.00 Boundary Buoys $ 1,300.00 Contingency $ 1,200.00 Trees $ 1,000.00 Lake Susan Park 1 Ballfield Lights $ 65,000.00 Meadow Green Park 1 Bleacher $ 1,400.00 Minnewashta Heights Park North Lotus lake Park Trees $ 1,000.00 1 Pheasant Hill Park 1 Power Hill Park General Improvements; Final Grading, Seeding, Entrance Road and Parking $ 15,000.00 ' Prairie Knoll Park 1 Rice Marsh Lake Park South Lotus Lake Park Sunset Ridge Park Trees $ 1,000.00 Play Area Expansion $ 14,000.00 1 2 1 Other Improvements 1 Scout Projects $ 1,000.00 Contingency $ 9,500.00 1 Fund 410 Required Reserves $ 8,000.00 City Center Park (For the purpose of matching School District 112 Funds invested in City Center Park/ Chanhassen Elementary School Playground) TOTAL $150,000.00 1 NOTE: All function 410 expenditures are subject to sales tax, the effect of which will be a loss in purchasing capital of approximately $9,750 in 1993. 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 22 Hoffman: This past weekend? Yeah, absolutely. Schroers: And I got two pamphlets. Two days in a row. I think we should get ourselves a. Lash: You don't have a sticker? ' Schroers: No. Lash: You didn't get one from your softball team? 1 Schroers: I'm retired. I'm not playing softball. Hoffman: Next item is at your discretion. You can either stay where you're at or we can adjourn down to here and continue on tape and eat food. (The Commission took a short break to change seating positions and due to 1 this, the microphone system did not pick up all of the conversation taking place.) 1993 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. Schroers: Okay, why don't we just start this kind of officially here. This is the 1993 Park Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement ' Program. This item was tabled at both the June 23rd and July 28th, 1992 Park and Recreational meetings due to time constraints. The 1993 CIP was originally intended to be the single item of discussion for the August 11th meeting but the land development proposals, items 2 and 3 on the agenda required our attention as well. It's imperative that the Commission handle these items in a timely manner to leave sufficient time for the 1993 park acquisition and development CIP be completed. At the request of the commissioners, the 5 year CIP has been interfaced with the CIP document for the years of 1988 thru 1991 to enable commissioners to identify improvements which were funded and completed in each years. As previously mentioned, the development of an annual CIP is one of the most important and detailed requirements of the commission. So we'll proceed to Bandimere Community Park and we have nothing proposed and no current estimates. Is there anything that we wish to include there for 1993? ' Lash: Any requests Wendy? Pemrick: No. Erickson: What do you guys, you've all lived here a lot longer than I ' have. What is the awareness of the Bandimere Community Park? I mean that the city has doubled in size in the last 10 years. Of those additional 6,000 people and the 6,000 that were originally here. How many people know that that chunk of land is out there? Hoffman: Everybody...because of the survey. The survey was given to all residents, specifically addressed Bandimere Park. The comment of a very ' small group...in light of the survey, we probably will not be going ahead with a grant proposal for matching funds and most likely...do not include development in the next 3 to 4 to 5 years. What does the Commission want Par and Rec Commission Meeting g August 11, 1992 - Page 23 to see that property be? How would you like to see it exist? Agricultural fields are certainly fine...put in prairie grass ?What would you like to doll Schroers: I don't think we want to see us put in prairie grass because that's expensive and if we know that at some point in the future tear it up,'that would be a waste of money. I think we should lease it to a loca farmer and get what revenue we can off the property and channel that revenue towards future development of the property. Lash: I like the use of it for the compost site. , Erickson: I guess the one thing that, suggestion I have and it may not be a good suggestion. Would be a sign on TH 101, future site of Bandimere Park. Maybe after several years of seeing that sign, you know seeing the II paint faded. Someone saying youth activity park. Maybe someday people would say, that damn sign is faded and you guys haven't done anything. W can come back and say... That's just an idea. I don't know what a sign would cost or if that's a bad idea. I mean right now you drive by, if I didn't have a little map I wouldn't know that that was a piece of parkland. ' Pemrick: ...survey and it'd be totally opposite of it being a youth community park because...if the golf course was needed... Hoffman: ... anything can be considered but people's perspective is apparently that it certainly will be a youth athletic complex at some point in the future. To change that expectation into a golf course would take il driving force from the Park Commission and City Council. It would also take, require the acquisition of land to the north... Pemrick: I just happened to mention it because... Erickson: Do you think it would be worth the investment for future awareness of a sign? Maybe not even all that big. Just put it up, futur site of Bandimere Park. Because TH 101 is a very busy road. You place where as you come down the road you see it so that in future years when Bandimere comes up, and says oh, that's that piece of land sitting there. Andrews: Yeah, that's the one I didn't vote for. Lash: But even the people who didn't vote for it who have now paid for it' have no idea where it is. Erickson: ...like the proposed development sign sitting up here on Kerbel where that development's going to go. Hoffman: 4 x 8? ' Erickson: Whatever. Big enough to read as you're driving by and not go off the road. Hoffman: ...$300.00 - $400.00. Erickson: Does everyone think that that might be a waste of money? ' 1 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 24 Hoffman: No, that's probably a good idea. 1 Pemrick: And keep it simple. The less words... 1 Andrews: Future Home of Bandimere Community Park. Schroers: How about Bandimere, we should have youth in there somewhere. 1 Lash: Future Bandimere Community Park. Hoffman: Future Site of Bandimere Community Park. 1 Erickson: Future Site is more, I mean Bandimere is the larger word to really drive home. 1 Hoffman: Okay, super. I think it's a good idea. The other thing which administratively we've got to look at is the signs which you see at State Parks or along County Parks...parkland. We have encroachment problems ' which are increasing so we're going to go ahead and have surveys done and locating the corner posts...putting signs up along the... Koubsky: One thing as an observation as I look through here, there's only two parks, Pheasant Hills and South Lotus Park that are slated for any type of playground improvement in the next two years. Just an observation as we go through here...and a lot of them are for little kids. Little kids are ' growing up. Curry Farms I don't think was that far off on some of these... Lash: I think that's usually phase 2 isn't it? Todd, if we do it in phase ' 1 and phase 2, isn't phase 2 usually. Or I mean phase 1 a little more scaled down than phase 2 is. Hoffman: We designate which phase is for what age. 3 to 6 and 6 to 12. The individual play components... Pemrick: Yeah, we need swings at Bandimere. Hoffman: And under the new guidelines...swings need to be off the play structure... 1 Lash: Dave said earlier and I think this is a good point. When you think about it, the little kids stuff, I just don't think gets as much use ' because you know if your kids are that little, you don't want to take them to the playground as much. You just keep them at home and you maybe have a little swingset at home that fills their need but once they get to be about 5 or 6, that's just too small time. They need more sophisticated 1 equipment. Erickson: Todd, if I could just back up one step to that sign. Something ' just came to me. I don't know if this is stupid to put on that sign too but maybe, how many acres is Bandimere? Hoffman: 32. r .II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 25 Erickson: 32 acres. Just to get someone to drive by and... I should ha a sign committee... Maybe acreage on the bottom. Hoffman: White sign, One color letter. Green on white. Erickson: I don't think it has to be fancy. Whatever's cheapest. 1 Schroers: Alright, let's move on here. Bandimere Heights Park. Wood 11 identification sign for $250.00 and the current estimate is $200.00. (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Schroers: Are we leaving the sand volleyball court, $200.00 in for this I year? Lash: Because it was in last year and Wendy says it's not there. 1 Schroers: Well that's what I'm saying. Wendy says it's not there so wha I'm asking is, do we want to plug it in for '93? Hoffman: If it's in a past budget and has not been installed, the $200.00... ' Schroers: Okay, let's go to Bluff Creek. Bluff Creek we have nothing, nothing. I don't see anything. The only thing that I would recommend th we might want to do at some point in time in the future is border sign th area so people can identify exactly where that is. I'll bet you there's very few people sitting at this table that can drive right out there and say this is Bluff Creek. • Lash: I walked it. And anything ever happen with that, I think Planning was going to. 1 Andrews: They've got a bluff ordinance. That went through so that's approved. Hoffman: It was an idea that financially was part of the problem because they wanted to develop...the real desire there was to clog up the rest of the zone and expedite that...with a Bluff Creek trail and preservation zone. The City's certainly planning for that... Schroers: Okay, how much money do we need to identify, to put boundary I signs on Bluff Creek Park? Hoffman: I would have to calculate the lineal foot distance and we need place a sign every 1,000 feet... Lash: Could we put that in for '94? Schroers: How about '93? 1 Lash: Well we're already over. 11 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 26 1 Schroers: '94. We've got nothing going there anyway. So '94 we'll put boundary signs. Erickson: Let's put a trap shooting range out there. Clay pigeons. ' Schroers: Carver Beach Park, Lotus Trail. In '92 we had 82,200.00 for play area refurbishment. For '93 we've got 8400.00 for two grills. 81,300.00 ' for two picnic tables. 81,500.00 for swimming buoys and signage at the mini beach. For '94 we have 81,500.00 for swimming buoys and signage at the main beach. And way down in '96 we've got 82,000.00 for park benches. Lash: Now is this the little swimming beach that we had the no parking thing with? ' Schroers: That is both. Carver Beach Park is both. Erickson: Where will the grills go? On the big side? 1 Schroers: Yeah, I would assume that they would. Lash: They were supposed to be getting picnic tables and benches and stuff a long time ago weren't they? Hoffman: The picnic table they have down there. Benches were proposed for i, along the trail but the trail's not conducive in it's present state unless it's upgraded. Lash: So have they gotten the things that they were somewhat promised a few years ago when we were doing things there? Did they get all of that? That's what they were complaining about here. Hoffman: The questions I heard that night were garbage cans and garbage can is in and park sign is in. They wanted a play structure at that time at the mini beach but the size of the site did not accommodate it, so that ' was not, that was taken out of the plans. Schroers: They were complaining about the location of the dock but the dock is located exactly where they asked us to put it because that's 1 supposedly was where the best fishing was. Hoffman: The only things that I would, are the benches and the play structures that were discussed. Lash: And is the play structure, the one that's on here for '92, is that ' at the same beach? Hoffman: The main beach. Schroers: But the benches aren't until '96 so I mean we're not...on the benches. 1 Pemrick: How about the Satellites? Wasn'-t that comment that they didn't have one. 11 II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 27 Hoffman: They have a Satellite at the main beach but the mini beach did II not accommodate one because of City ordinance. Proximity to the water. Lash: So are the grills at the main beach or the mini beach? Hoffman: Mini beach. Andrews: I have a question. Are we in any kind of a liability situation!' if we sign and buoy one beach but not the other at the same time? ...unimproved beach with somebody be able to come back and say, well you did one the right way and one the wrong way...signage and buoys at both beaches at the same time? Hoffman: Right now we're...so we can probably accommodate for it in '93. Lash: I think we talked about this one time before and we were going to put up a sign or something, swim at your own risk. Schroers: I don't think according to State regulations that if you have II municipal swimming area, I think a sign swim at your own risk does not cover you. Andrews: ...I'm just saying, if we approve a sign at one we should do both. Hoffman: Let me back up. The mini beach did not have any buoys. The ma does have. Andrews: Okay, so we're bringing the mini beach up to speed then? 1 Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: Okay. Then I'm comfortable. Lash: So then the main buoys are not in good shape? ' Hoffman: They're not in good shape so they're targeted later on for replacement. ' Schroers: Okay, Carver Beach Playground. Hoffman: In my opinion we can't support any skating rink improvements thi year. It's way over budget and we're going to take what we can. Lash: Push that out to '94? And did all these things in '92 get done then? Hoffman: Sign is in. Swing...all those items that are currently specified. I didn't have to go ahead and order this equipment early because we had it left over from last year. Schroers: What about the bleacher. I don't think that's in is it? ' Lash: That's next year. 11 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting 11 August 11, 1992 - Page 28 Hoffman: That's not in. So all these items, the sign is in, the swing, the spring animals... Koubsky: One thing I noticed in...general maintenance. Should we be alloting money for maintenance? Andrews: I think we should move the skating out to '94. 1 Schroers: Okay, should we move on to Chanhassen Estates Mini Park. Lash: Park sign went in. All we have is picnic tables for '93. Erickson: Does this park already have two picnic tables...? I mean it's a 1 acre park. 1 Hoffman: The picnic tables are, if they're in here I don't recall that they're there. See with picnic tables being mobile, they could have been in there in '90 and then moved... We could move them back there and then we could line this item out. Picnic tables are transient and they move around. We typically budget in a lump sum at the end for picnic tables and benches, those type of amenities. In order so they don't forget where we specifically want them... Lash: So we could move? ' Hoffman: You could line item that out and just instruct that... ' Lash: And is two going to be enough then forever? So just take it out completely? Hoffman: Yeah, we'll need to watch the development across the street. Lash: But we don't want to move it to '94 to '95? ' Hoffman: At your discretion. Lash: Just take it out? Schroers: Okay, so then we are having nothing in Chanhassen Estates in regards to '93. Lash: And I'm assuming if you had calls from any of the residents on these, you're going to tell us. Schroers: Okay next is Chanhassen Hills. Biggee. Double tennis court, with basketball hoops, $30,000.00. Trees $1,000.00. Total $31,000.00. Lash: Did they get the ballfield this year? Hoffman: Ballfield will go in. Staff comments as a prelude to discussion. Just overall in many discussions with other cities, tennis courts in let's ' say many cities, are not put in neighborhood parks. They are located at central park locations...because of a typical destination type activity. We're an exception to that. We have tennis courts... Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 29 Lash: Which two did you say? Meadow Green. r Hoffman: Meadow Green and North Lotus currently have them. Our neighborhood parks. South Lotus Lake will have tennis courts. That's a community park. And Lake Susan community park. Lash: And Lake Ann. Well, you know if we start backing off on all these tennis courts that were on our original plans for these neighborhoods, there could be just a huge uprising. Hoffman: It needs to be addressed. The Commission needs to address... question where exactly in reference to the master plan we want to put the ballfield. Tennis court was moved once. Originally it was located right at the central location. But if you walk the trail, this is the nice ope lawn if you will area park. If you plopped in a tennis court, you'd be putting fencing and asphalt in the middle of a very pleasant location. T option to move it here however did not, haven't really addressed parking or access. If you want to drive to this location, you'd have to drive and park on either Lake Susan and you can traverse this or potentially cut through yards to get to the tennis court or park in the parking lot in this direction to the tennis court... ' Lash: What do you hear from the residents there? Erickson: This is a brand new neighborhood isn't it? , Lash: Are they pushing for more things and what are they asking for? Hoffman: That is a newly developed park. We get the most calls for Lakel Susan Hills West. They want whatever was specified. These people get these plans...so when they get a master plan, they think this is what they're getting. And if they don't...we have to call the neighborhood meetings to change this plan. I'm not certain that once we get farther on to Power Hill, that that location is ideal for tennis courts either... Putting tennis courts up there may not be adviseable... So we have two parks in the same vicinity and somewhat close to Lake Susan where we have community park with two tennis courts and if you look at them now are serving the need adequately. We're certainly not seeing an overuse of... II So I'm tentative to establish... Lash: ...overkill to put tennis courts all over everywhere. Schroers: I think so too. Especially in a site like that where you have to cram it into wherever you can and then it doesn't provide decent access. A court like that that's hard to get to will probably not get enough use warrant the expense of putting it in. Lash: What if we just switched it to just the basketball and can we put II a half basketball court? And then maybe this would be an area that would be a site someday for, when we get in to try the warming houses and skating ponds and then they have something for the winter. And put more money towards playground equipment and have a basketball hoop and volleyball and baseball field. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 30 Andrews: A comment about the skating rink which I think go along with tennis courts. I think you need close parking because...people are going to drive. If you can't park within 20 feet or 20 yards of a skating rink, it gets pretty difficult in the winter to get. Schroers: Good point. Andrews: And the same for tennis. People drive to one of the neighborhoods and then park right next to...get out and play so I think... say this isn't the place. 1 Hoffman: Community parks, our skating rinks are community park activities is one position. We put down a sheet of ice in a neighborhood park is an expensive operation. They don't see much use for...warming house, lights, maintain it... Lash: So if we were to switch this from double tennis court to a 1 basketball court, what would that do? Hoffman: Single basketball will cost you $500.00 for the pole and backboard and basketball... Lash: So switch this to $1,000.00? Hoffman: Okay, I'll come back with a re- estimate on that. Lash: And then is there a volleyball court in there yet? Hoffman: Yes. Erickson: How about the play structures there for the kids? That's 1 already up? Koubsky: Phase 1 is. 1 Lash: So could we move phase 2 up? Koubsky: They don't have a swing set. Lash: And the trees that we have for next year, now when you're going to be going over to Gorra's property and digging trees. Are those ones that you can earmark for some of these areas? Hoffman: Yes. We can put some of those here. The $1,000.00 in '92 for trees is for that... Erickson: This park needs some trees bad doesn't it? ' Hoffman: Well the trees that were taken out of Bandimere during that regrading operation were hauled into this park... ' Lash: So what if we were to put in the basketball hoop next year and some trees, and then maybe move up the play area expansion to '94 -'95. II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 31 Hoffman: Okay. Lash: Which, '94 or '95? Andrews: '94. 1 Schroers: Okay. For '94 we're putting a $1,000.00 for trees? Lash: No. For '94 we're putting $10,000.00 for play area expansion. ' Schroers: You're going to leave the trees in '93? Andrews: Is that enough to do the job on trees Todd ?...more efficient inli one shot. Hoffman: Yeah, $2,500.00 would be much more... Andrews: Well we're cutting...Put $2,500.00 for the court and $2,500.00 , for the trees, we're still 25 ahead. That will give us some leeway on perhaps some of these other parks here. Schroers: You're just calling the $4,000.00 to play area expansion and n designating it half court basketball? Lash: No, it's $2,500.00 in '93 for a basketball court and $1,000.00 for trees. And then in '94 it's $10,000.00. Andrews: Are we going to hit the trees a little bit harder? Lash: Well if they take some of those from the Gorra property and put those in and then this $1,000.00 is for the berm that they're putting up along 212. ' Andrews: Maybe we can set up something... Hoffman: So consensus is at $3,500.00 or $5,000.00? ' Erickson: $3,500.00. Lash: Total right? Hoffman: Yeah. Okay, and then I call a neighborhood meeting to discuss I the changing of the master plan. Erickson: Okay...tennis courts get in the park system in Chanhassen so I far. I guess from my own personal experience...the ones in Lake Ann, I never see anybody using them. Not that they're not used but I hardly ever see them used. A couple times I've been in North Lotus, those are used a lot. ' Lash: The ones up at City Center are being used. Koubsky: Lake Susan somebody's on them pretty routinely. ' 1 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 32 Pemrick: ...a lot. We've never had to wait for a court but there's always someone coming or leaving... Schroers: There's some activity at Lake Ann but it's not like they're 1 stacked up waiting there either. Andrews: Probably too, if you don't have the sticker... 1 Schroers: Okay, let's go on to Chan Pond Park. For '93 we've got $250.00 for a wooden sign and that's up. Hoffman: In '92 we had a sign. For '93 we're proposing a second sign for off of Saratoga and Sierra Trail. At that connection. 1 Lash: But did the picnic tables get? Hoffman: They're here. Lash: Oh, they're here? Hoffman: No, those are on the specification page which just means... ' Lash: But they're going to be coming out? 11 Hoffman: Correct. Again, we have not, I have not purchased, or purchased very little out of the '92 budget because we had all this work left over from last year that we're catching up on so we're shooting the money to other things... Lash: I just am checking to see if that's something that got cut. 1 Hoffman: No... Erickson: I have one comment on this Chanhassen Pond Park. The observatory platform in that southeastern corner. Boy is that in bad shape. Is that going to be, that looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Hoffman: I would recommend given it's past use, that we take it down and not replace it... Erickson: I don't think it's a bad spot to have a little, because when you walk that distance around that park, actually it is kind of a nice place just to sit and rest, for an old guy like me. It's really kind of a nice place to sit but I guess I would be in favor of budgeting something, having the Boy Scouts come out and redo it. Maybe do a little higher...it's not that bad. Maybe even some, and I guess I don't remember off the top of my head the exact view of the park. Maybe even some selective pruning on some of the trees in the area...just to better see the pond. It's not that bad of a view but it's a lot of just kind of overgrown probably since that was built. Andrews: How big of a deck is that? 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 33 Erickson: It's enough room for like 4 people to go up and sit down side by side but in it's current condition you wouldn't want to do that if they were all my size. It had to be built quite a few years ago because I do t even think it's treated lumber. Lash: So what do you think, like $1,000.00? ' Andrews: That should be enough to take it down and build it once...you is figure about $10.00 a square for a deck. Erickson: Handicap accessibility. I was just thinking, exactly where it sits on that trail. Can you get down there with a chair? It seems like it's adequate. That's before the stairs or those timbers start jumping. Hoffman: ...to about $1,500.00 or $1,750.00 for additional bituminous 1 and... Erickson: ...I've got one more thing on Chanhassen Pond Park. Replacing the stairs. You did some erosion control at one point. No you didn't. II Correction of erosion. Lash: That was in '91. Hoffman: And in addition, all erosion... Erickson: This is something that I doubt that you've even noticed or sell or anything but that giant oak tree on Kerber Boulevard, as you're going north on Kerber before you get to where the proposed parking was at one time. 1 Hoffman: It's dying. Erickson: Yeah. Any ideas on? 1 Hoffman: ...expansion of Kerber. I Erickson: That's a shame. It's a beautiful tree. It just seems to be that one branch but that's on the side where all the fill came. Boy those trees take a beating from that. One thing that Chanhassen's Tree Board II should look at more too is with this complex that's going to go, 2 weeks ago we talked about it. They're talking about coming up to the drip line. Boy, if you get anywhere near that drip line underneath that you destroy those oaks. I was in Minnewashta Regional Park, or whatever the other d looking at some things they did when they tried to save these trees. The came underneath that drip line and the branches are dying out on those trees like crazy. , Hoffman: The applicant for the Oaks talked about that at last night's Council meeting. They said yes, new information says they'll be staking I off... Schroers: Is there a specified distance say on the drip line? 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 34 Hoffman: No. They figure 20 feet past the dripline. Erickson: That makes more sense because every one of those trees you see there, they're dying off. Part of them. Anyway. It seemed like there wa something else in there. Oh, those steps that go down. What kind of condition are those in? Was part of that erosion, well I've been there since '91. It just seems like there's foot paths where people come off the steps and probably take their bikes and stuff. It seems to be getting... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) 11 Schroers: ...some of us old guys are getting tired of basketball. Maybe the numbers... ' Lash: I think I know one team though... Schroers: I think there's probably going to be. Lash: They're getting too old. Schroers: A few of them belly up because, well our team is used to doing a lot of winning and the way I understand it, they're not doing so good this year...I've talked to 3 or 4 of the guys and they said, this ain't as much fun as it used to be and that's what I was thinking for the last 2 years. That I wasn't having that much fun anymore. Lash: Get in the over 35 league. Average age on our team is probably 45. Does anyone know if we did the trail line to Chan Hills? Andrews: Todd says it's in there. Lash: How about the trail line to Chan Hills from Lake Susan, did that get done yet? Hoffman: No. Lash: But it's going to be done? ' Hoffman: I would presume that when we start it, it depends to how much problems we run into the construction phase and how much time we have. Lash: I'd just like us to keep in mind if it turns out that we over by a big bunch, that maybe the ball lights could get moved back to '94. Hoffman: Okay. Lash: We'll leave them now and see how it works. Hoffman: Alright. Schroers: We're leaving the lights for '93 so actually we're leaving Lake Susan then the way it is. Lash: When's the track ride supposed to go in? 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 35 Hoffman: The track ride came in... Erickson: What's a track ride? It's a piece of play equipment? r Lash: Yes. It's a thing you get on on a higher end, you hold onto it an it flies. Schroers: They used to call it a cable slide. How much money is that? Pemrick: $1,400.00. Lash: Is $1,400.00 going to be enough in '94? What's this aeration systir installation? Erickson: That's what we talked to the DNR about. Hoffman: Yeah, that was put in... Lash: So is it all in and everything? 1 Hoffman: The wiring is in... Erickson: Does that put bubbles in the pond or what? i 1 Schroers: It's kind of like a 50/50 deal. We did the wiring and they we going to provide the aeration unit. Hoffman: Yeah, it was a grant thing. We put in $4,000.00 in wiring and they were going to supply a $25,000.00 aeration unit but it's contingent 1r State funding...from here to the wall or is it typical... Lash: I think we need to keep the bleacher in. Schroers: Here's $1,800.00. Lash: Where? Schroers: From the archery. Hoffman: ...because that's coming out of general fund. Not out of your i park funds. Lash: I think for Meadow Green we need to keep the bleachers. 1 Andrew: Push the rink to '94. Lash: Or beyond. Koubsky: One year at a time here. We're going to put lighting? , Schroers: We're going to leave it at $6,000.00 but bump it up to '94. Lash: Now why did you pick Meadow Green for that? That's so close to CiI Center. Isn't it? Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 36 Schroers: It's a long ways up the hill walking in the winter. Lash: To this one? Hoffman: I think it's because of the dense population around there. Schroers: From Meadow Green to, yeah. The dense population. I mean people from. Erickson: There's a lot of multi - family. Schroers: Chaparral. Lash: I just think that seems a little close. Hoffman: Anything else? Briefly to address Wendy's comments. We'll get this pretty well cleaned up and we get one more crack at it at the 28th meeting and I'll go through it and if there's any recollections I have over specific things... Lash: Is there a basketball court up here? Hoffman: Meadow Green? Lash: Yes. Hoffman: Yes. Koubsky: What phase are you at with your play equipment? Hoffman: We've got a phase 1, a phase 2 and now we've corrected it... We have $400.00 in the tree planting... Koubsky: How many trees is that? Hoffman: A couple trees and also try to get some of those... Erickson: Think that's a real prime location to get some trees? Hoffman: The only problem is they have to go to the perimeter of the ballfield in that area. Erickson: Yeah. I guess I'm just thinking along that outlot. Lash: How about the western edge? That'd be kind of nice. Koubsky: I agree. A little more greenery there. Schroers: Okay, Minnewashta. Lash: We're doing a play area expansion. Hoffman: Yes. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 39 bituminous projects. Get it in there prior to the housing, then we have final grading and seeding for '93... Where's the park? What's going on with that park? Koubsky: That whole Flamingo Drive is so populated. Hoffman: That's the one, if you take a look at the master plan. It's kind of a quirky park because it's stuck with the drainage ponds which are a problem because they're routinely are eyesores and people don't like them I and they think of this as a park and they want it maintained as a park... holding pond. So we have a playfield to the north. 12 cars parking for the sliding hill, the play area. But then on top this tennis court. You I can see that that has been graded by the developer for tennis courts but again, it backs up immediately in the back yard of a single family residential to the west. Single family to the north. Back yards and the - this is open space...so you figure you've got 12 cars to park and then yo I have to walk down. This is a very narrow strip. This is a person's groomed yard right here. This is a person's back yard right here. I Lash: You know and I remember when we did this too. And now you look at 1 it and you go, why did we do this. Schroers: Why did we do that Jan? Lash: I don't know. We always somehow get kind of smuckered into this stuff by the developer I think. Andrews: How wide is that little...? Hoffman: It's about 100 feet. Andrews: That's enough for a walk in park. Walking path_ It's not idea'I but it's not objectionable... Hoffman: That's the thing we're talking about. If you go up there and take a look, you can drive... The view from here is unbelieveable. Erickson: Put an observation deck up there. Hoffman: Other cities...do many more covered shelters in their neighborhood parks for neighborhood picnics. We don't do that here. I think we should start to do that. We haven't done it at Lake Ann yet. Lash: How about at Greenwood Shores? Andrews: You take the no parking sign down, you can put up your shelter.1 Hoffman: This would be a spot for...you could put a piece of concrete and a shelter and the neighborhood could have their picnics there and have on of the nicest spots in the development rather than put tennis up there an have 4 people go up there and use it. Lash: For probably the same amount of money. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 40 Hoffman: And did our recommendation include the deletion of the $2 000.00 y , on the repair of the platform? Andrews: I did not. I feel that we cannot responsibly defer that. ' Schroers: Okay. So that is a motion. Do we have a second on that? Koubsky: I'll second that. 1 Andrews moved, Koubsky seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council approve the 1993 Park Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program amended as follows: To contribute ' $8,000.00 towards City Center for 1993 with an additional $8,000.00 for each of the following two years, allocate $1,000.00 for Eagle Scout projects, and put $9,500.00 into a contingency fund. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ' FALL RECREATION PROGRAM SCHEDULE. Hoffman: Chairman Schroers and Commission members. The fall recreation program update which is quite exciting, will be brought to you by Jerry and 1 Dawn. Ruegemer: Like Todd said, in looking at our 1992 fall newsletter that did ' come out I feel is one of our most popular and most exciting newsletter in recreation...to offer that our department has seen in a number of years. There's the programs that effect virtually every age group in our city. We do have programs for preschool kids, elementary kids, teens...and so forth. ' The adult activities and then senior activities. 5o it appears that we are touching every section of population in our city. What we're going to do is briefly kind of go through each age category as it appears on the memo ' itself. If there's any questions going through the memo, just please feel free to stop and ask away. I'd be more than happy to answer those for you. Starting with our Chanhassen Kids Club. In the past we've talked to ' various groups in our district and it appeared to me that there was a need for an after school program. This summer Dawn and I have both talked about it throughout the summer and...take the opportunity to act on that notion and try to offer a program for after school. That after school program ' will be on Mondays and Fridays when school is in session. It would be... That will be daily occurring from 3 :30 to 5:30 to 6:00 is what we're putting in... That would be at the elementary school...having the gym available for kids who'd like to play basketball or do other types of activities in there. Different special events. We will be...occasionally field trips and going to...so it will really be kind of a socialization program verus traditional education... Andrews: Is this a fee for service program or no charge program? 1 Ruegemer: It is a fee. It's a self supporting program. Lash: What.is the fee, do you know? 1 11 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 41 Lash: You know what we need to look at too is the size of the park and the location. So say we had one earmarked originally for Curry Farms and the ll we had one earmarked for Pheasant Hills. Well they're only a half a mile apart. That's a little overkill. Maybe what we need to do is, if North Lotus is a good sized neighborhood park, when Bandimere goes in, there'd one down in that area. There's one at Lake Susan. There's one at Sunset Ridge. Just kind of get them in general areas. Almost like we do the radius of where we need to have parkland. Maybe have a certain radius fo tennis courts set up so that we don't. Schroers: Yeah, that and we could make a little list of criteria for tennis courts. Number one, it's got to be readily accessible from parkin,. Koubsky: The soil has to be good. Schroers: Soil has to be good, yeah. 1 Lash: And it's got to be a decent sized park so we're not trying to put in all these things. 1 Schroers: And it shouldn't be within a quarter of a mile or something of another existing tennis court. But when you come up with that situation, that both the tennis court is 3/4 of a mile away, here we have the space.! We have the parking available. This would be a really good spot for a tennis court. Then go on it but not try to cram a tennis court in 1 someplace where. Lash: Maybe in our plans what we should do is do that with the picnic shelters and the tennis court.. One or the other. Andrews: Good idea. At Power Hill there we could have a possibility. Erickson: You say that's such a beautiful view up there, I think it woull be almost silly to put a tennis court there and not something where people could go and really appreciate the spot. I Hoffman: I think $10,000.00 or $15,000.00, something. We've often put just general development, general improvements. We leave that in for '93. Refine that at a later date and I think this neighborhood is real I interested in this park area...call a neighborhood meeting to amend the master plan... Probably the play structure in '93 is what these folks are going to want. If we have the road in there. The sidewalk and the stree Everybody up and down Flamingo and the adjacent areas, they can walk up there. Go into the parking lot and...play structure. Lash: Do you think that the trees could get moved up from '94 to '93 and then the play structure from '95 to '94? Koubsky: I don't think the trees are a big issue there. Lash: Well you were saying you thought $10,000.00 would be plenty so in that $10,000.00 do you think we could incorporate some trees too? 1 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 42 1 Hoffman: Well, if we want to do a phase 1 play structure say in '93, next year. We have the parking and we want to get that play structure in... Schroers: What you're saying is plug in $15,000.00 in 1993 for general ' improvements? Hoffman: Yep and then hold a neighborhood meeting and...which is my belief that that play area. Andrews: I think that's a good idea. 1 Koubsky: That will be all graded and seeded and ready? For a play area. Hoffman: ...where we can do that... 1 Lash: How about in the $10,000.00 there, does that include the ballfield? Hoffman: To the north? Lash: Yeah. 1 Hoffman: It's called an open playfield. Lash: There's no backstop or anything? ' Hoffman: There is a backstop on the plans. If people would expect that, then we should clarify that at the neighborhood meeting. 1 Lash: So would that be in the $15,000.00? Hoffman: No. That would be additional... 1 Lash: So put trees and backstop in in '94? 1 Hoffman: Okay. Lash: How much would you have to put in for a backstop? Hoffman: $500.00... Lash: So make that $3,500.00? 1 Erickson: Power Hill Park sitting on top of Williams Pipeline. 1 Lash: Well I've also penciled in picnic shelter but I've got it like '96 and beyond. Schroers: What was your last one Janet that you just put in now? ' Lash: I have $15,000.00 for '93 for phase 1. And then for play area phase 2 left at '95. And then trees and backstop in '94. That would be $3,500.00. And then a picnic shelter, that's '96 and beyond instead of. II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 43 Schroers: Well, we're leaving the trees at $2,500.00 and then adding $1,000.00 for a backstop, is that what you did in '94? Lash: Yes. Do they get volleyball or anything like that? Hoffman: Not on the plan. Lash: Would it go in outside a picnic shelter? Something like that fit It there? Hoffman: No. It's very sloped, graded flat area. Schroers: We've got too many parks. Prairie Knoll. We have site preparation in 1994 for $4,000.00. Erickson: Where is this park? Koubsky: Just south of Lake Susan. 1 Hoffman: The thought here is that these people can use the community park but they can't legally because they're not far enough south yet on the development to get their trail easement in so they have to cross the private property to get to that...Lake Susan. Lash: Are we supposed to put money in for a play area... ' Hoffman: Again, they're close to Lake Susan but not, it's a jaunt. A trip to get there...some unique spots... ' Lash: But do we need to put some money down for it? It's listed but there's no money slated anywhere. Hoffman: ...the last time we talked to him, the 5 year plan was to be on in 1996. • Schroers: And that probably still would be now if...until '94. I Lash: That $10,000.00 or whatever it is... ' Koubsky: Rice Marsh Lake Park. Lash: This is getting done right? 1 Hoffman: Yes. Lash: How about the parking down there? Is there anything that can be 1 done about that? That used to be a nightmare. Erickson: South Lotus Lake Park could use some trees again. Is that that little bump right by Workman's house? Pemrick: They've got a nice play structure in there... 1 Lash: And you've got $14,000.00 slated for more in '96? 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 44 1 Hoffman: Again, we needed that for our tree conversations. We have trees which are being pulled out of the tree farm... Lash: Unsurmountable curbing. Does that have to go in next year? Hoffman: That's in '94. ' Koubsky: That dock needs to have pads put on it because I've scratched the heck out of trying to boat there this spring. It's pure metal on the edges... Probably buy something at the supply store for $100.00... 1 Schroers: What has ever been resolved with that pump house and stuff down there and was that area now accommodate a neighborhood skating rink? 1 Hoffman: No. That could be a tennis court. (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) 1 Koubsky: ...play area, phase 1 is pretty small. There's a ton of people out there. People have just migrated down there. 1 Hoffman: The biggest phase 1 ever put in in our city. Koubsky: Get out of here. It's not bigger than... 1 Lash: So Dave, would you want to switch the tennis court and play area expansion around? 1 Koubsky: Yeah. I don't think the tennis courts make any sense until Lake Drive is in. The same with hockey. If you can't get back there to flood it 1 . Hoffman: '94 and beyond with a tennis court. Lash: What hockey rink? Schroers: So do you want to move the tennis courts to '94? 1 Koubsky: Yeah. Lash: How about '95? 1 Koubsky: I would think '95. Lash: Switch the tennis court and the play area expansion. But how about the basketball? Can that go in without the tennis court? Koubsky: So in '93 we're putting $14,000.00 for play expansion. That'd be ' unprecedented in the city's history. Putting phase 1 and phase 2 two years apart. Lash: That's why people get on the Park and Rec Commission. Does the field have a backstop and stuff? Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 45 1 Koubsky: Yeah, the baseball field. 1 Andrews: I think...pretty good shape... Lash: Other improvements, before we totally wrap it up. I think maybe i light of our last two meetings, because of the MMCD or whoever it was, th we should make some kind of effort at budgeting some money for bat houses and swallow houses or whatever. ' Schroers: I like that too. As a matter of fact, the way they went up... and other communities and bad mouthed us, I think...a year from now on al programs. I have my sources. Lash: What did they say? Schroers: They said that we voted to ban the adulticides because we didn know what else to do...city of Maple Grove. Lash: I think we should write a letter to the City of Maple Grove and tell them our reasons. Koubsky: Well just ask for the Minutes. ' Lash: Ask for their Minutes? Koubsky: Yes. Lash: Or supply them our Minutes? Andrews: Were you aware that they flew up... Schroers: We told them that we wanted them to have 5 minutes and the othil party to have 5 minutes and then equal time for other unassociated people with concerns and they really took advantage of us. Tried to give us this big sales pitch and then acted terribly offended when we didn't buy it. I Andrews: ...he gave the technical half answer and then afterwards he gave the other half and... It was obvious what I was trying to ask and he tri to only tell me the technical part of the question... Koubsky: ...to say that I don't agree with your decision. I don't agree I with the way that they presented it. I thought they blew it. I thought they put together a terrible case. Erickson: That's the only reason I voted the way I did. ' Lash: That was part of my reason too. But a big part of my reason was the fact that at the meeting before, having sat there for 2 or 3 hours and listened to all that and heard promises from them that they were going toll do this and that and wouldn't do this and that and they turned around and just did it the same as always. Now can you trust them to do what they're supposed to be doing? They act like they don't have any accountability till anyone and that annoyed me and we're paying for that service. Well we still have to pay for it and that... Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 11, 1992 - Page 46 I Schroers: They don't, no one else knows anything else about it. They've got their own little program there with their own little source of money and they've got a good thing going. That's what they're doing. They're sitting here fighting for all the help and support they can get. And that's one thing but I don't believe one word about that that stuff is totally and completely unharmful to the environment. It's not. It kills something in the environment and that's going to have a more far reaching ' effect. I mean it's not a good similarity but 20 years ago smoking cigarettes was the thing to do. Now everybody's knows better. 20 years from now it's very possible that they'll be saying the same thing about... ' Koubsky: I think as far as chemicals..., in reading those health criteria they gave at least me, the stuff breaks down pretty rapidly and the stuff as far as an insecticide, I have to think is a pretty safe thing to use. ' It's not like DDT that has, is very persistent and remains in the environment a long time which they'd love to use because they didn't have to reapply. The reason they have to reapply this stuff every time it rains is because the stuff naturally breaks down. Lash: Well and that was my other thing. I don't even know if I'm that concerned with the health risks because they haven't been proven one way or ' the other to me clearly but also I don't feel like the effectiveness has really been proven to us either. And I'm hearing that the last time they sprayed was last August and everybody was thrilled with how few mosquitoes there were in July. Now that just makes we wonder how effective it is and if it's worth the money. Koubsky: My thought is it worthwhile to spend any... The reason he came back to spray is because of encephalitis mosquito...so they sprayed. Do we want to adjourn? Lash: Well we have to put money in '93 for our improvements don't we? Hoffman: Correct. Other improvements... ' Lash: So put in, I don't know if you want to put it in under Boy Scout projects or how. If it can be a winter project when the house guys don't have as much to do and they can make some of those things. Make the bat houses and swallow houses. Schroers: What if we call it something like Park Environment Enhancement. ' Lash: Mosquito Control. ' Andrews: Can we coordinate any of the bird house projects with the Senior Center? Maybe they'd be interested in building bird houses. ,Lash: No. They like to go to the Casino. Well figure out what they... ' Erickson moved, Lash seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 11:21 p.m.. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim Park and Rec Commission Meeting 1 August 25, 1992 - Page 31 their way to do a particularly good job here on this one. We don't havell much to lose on this one I don't believe. 1993 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, FINAL' DRAFT. Hoffman: Thank you Chairman Schroers. Park Commissioners, this is a fairly detailed document. It is the second time through so we should bell able to complete it in somewhat of a timely fashion. You have a detail sheet which is exactly what we need to come out of this meeting with. I That's the pages that would be 2 or 3 of your packet. It details there what has been pulled out of the 5 year capital improvement program for the fiscal year 1993. Totals that at a subtotal of $142,050.00. However th as noted in the report, if you add on the $25,000.00 reserve which was talked about for City Center Park matching funds, you come up with a tota exceeding the $150,000.00 target budget by the amount of $17,050.00. So there do need to be some adjustments with the budget. You either need t reduce some of the specific items which are listed there, or reduce the t reserve of $25,000.00 for City Center Park matching funds with the school district. Or a combination thereof. Chairman Schroers, if you'd like I direction in how you should move through this, I'll be glad to provide that. Otherwise simply. Schroers: I think I'd appreciate it if you would. We spent a lot of tit on the last issue and if you'd move us through here in a timely manner, we'd appreciate it. If I understand you correctly, what we need to do is come up with $17,500.00? ' Hoffman: If you want to stay with your figures which were discussed at the last meeting, correct. At the last budget meeting. Schroers: If we stay the way it's proposed right here, we're coming up $17,000.00 over budget? Hoffman: Correct. Lash: Well how about if we just reduce the City Center fund, and phase I that in over 3 years and do it like $8,000.00 a year or something. ChanWs are they're not going to come up with any money for a couple years anyway. Andrews: I think that makes a lot of sense. 1 Hoffman: That would be one suggestion. Again, if you're going through e comments, I wanted to make sure that you bounced around the issue of the $65,000.00 in lights at Lake Susan which is 45% of the budget. I asked Jerry Ruegemer, the Recreation Supervisor to respond to that. Again, there's many issues and essentially it should only be justified if the I commission does not feel that that $65,000.00 would be better spent elsewhere in the city. If it could be spent better for more value to more people, then we essentially should not be making that recommendation. B. again as I stated, it's a one time type of investment. You simply at so point need to bite the bullet if you want to do it, and get it done. However, as stated in my memo, summertime in Chanhassen, you obviously havE many opportunities. During the winter, I take calls from residents who II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 32 ask, are there additional skating opportunities? Are there additional winter recreation opportunities? Where is the sliding hill in Chanhassen? We haven't had one to date but hopefully now Power Hill will fill that bill. So as the Commission, it's your responsibility as well to weigh these checks and balances of our annual budget. Once you lock up ' $65,000.00 for a year and we go out to bid for that project, we commit ourselves. Schroers: What was the response from Mr. Ruegemer in regard to the 1 importance of the lighting at Lake Susan? Lash: There's a memo attached. 1 Hoffman: There's a last memo on your packet. In it he talked about the numbers of baseball players and that type of thing in the community. The survey, the preliminary results on the survey don't rate lights highly but 1 you would expect that simply because it's only a certain segment of the community. If you're not interested in baseball or have no children in baseball, you're not a softball player, you're not going to vote yes for ' athletic lights. So in that vein, the survey which comes back would tell you to put that money elsewhere. Potentially in trails or neighborhood park development. Not in lights but you need to come up with that thought ' process and struggle through it. Lash: For one thing, we can't put it into trails. For another thing, the survey also put Bandimere kind of low and so if people aren't going to votE to support the development of Bandimere, we're going to have to find other alternatives to provide ballfields and this is a way that we're going to bE able to almost double the useage on this one field. So what else can we ' do? Schroers: Also, can that lighting be used for anything else? Can that lighting be used for skating in the wintertime? Could we develop an 1 additional skating area there where we could use those lights? Hoffman: Not at Lake Susan. Not in regards to skating. The outfield ' contains irrigation in it so you'd kill the grass. At issue of multi- purpose use, we may be able to use Lake Susan for some fall soccer under the lights. That type of use but adult softball would not be scheduled. 1 Koubsky: You know the idea of just a nice ballfield. It's a great ballfield. We need night games. We need to fertilize it. It's not green yet. It's irrigated. Lash: You kind of sound like President Bush. Not green. You need to fertilize. ' Koubsky: For ballparks, it needs that lighting thing. Schroers: I do agree. At the rate that Chanhassen is developing and we're only at half of our target population right now, that ballfield is something that's going to be more in demand as time goes on and as time goes on, lighting it going to get more expensive as well as everything else so I guess I think that we should stay with the lighting. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 33 II Lash: I think we need to come up with that. I agree, we need to do thaL but we need to come up with the money somewhere to put into our, what were the two things we were lacking? The Scout. II Hoffman: Yeah, listed on page 26. Other Improvements continue to see money. The Commission has found themselves in many circumstances where they'd like to do a $600.00 project and have not laid away the funds to that so a contingency of at least a few thousand dollars, upwards of $5,000.00 would prove very beneficial as you work through the year. II Schroers: Okay. Well if you would be so kind as to run a couple of you options by us and along with the one that Janet made in regard to reducing the matching funds for City Center and we can make a decision on this. I Lash: Under Carver Beach, can we pitch a couple of picnic tables? Can they come out of the ones we just specified tonight or from somewhere el Hoffman: I'd hate to cut any picnic tables. We're strapped. We move t1 Y P PP r around the way it is. In regards to the $17,000.00 that you're high, if you take that off of the 25, you're left with $8,000.00. But if you wan to use a portion of that for spectator seating, additional bleachers, or put aside $1,000.00 for a Boy Scout project or put a few thousand dollars away for contingency, you're essentially going to wipe out any reserve f City Center Park for those matching dollars. So again it's back to the Commission to make that call which they feel is more appropriate. Andrews: I have one comment to make and that's just that the pace of current commercial development in our city, I think we're going to see all shot here of revenue next year. Higher than what we saw this year. So I'r not as nervous about being slightly more aggressive in '93 as I was in , Ip So I think we can put a little more into the budget than we originally wIke targeting. Schroers: Now are we talking for the matching funds was for 1993 or for, the whole 5 years? Did we put that $25,000.00 in for 1993? Lash: And then that was supposed to be it. Just $25,000.00 and then IL whenever they matched it, we would do it. Well, if we phased it in now c say we put in $5,000.00 or $8,000.00 each year over a couple of years, by the time they're ready to match it, we'd have it. I Schroers: I think that makes a lot of sense to me. That way we don't have to re- manipulate the. Lash: I hate to see that happen because I'd like to see that project ge finished. But I think that we discussed enough last time that we don't think it's fair that we carry the entire burden and I really don't see tit the school district is going to be coming up with any money for that for few years and I think that's that... Schroers: I think if we go ahead and foot the bill or show good faith tit we are willing to, they probably won't. 1 1 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 34 Lash: Well, and if we come up with $8,000.00 and they match with $8,000.00, that's a phase 2 anyway so, isn't it? I mean don't we usually ' do it in like about a $15,000.00? Hoffman: Each of the remaining two phases were called out at the time of the initial installation at just over $20,000.00. Lash: Don't you think they could be pared down? Hoffman: Certainly. Andrews: I'd like to try a, so we get this going here. I'd like to recommend that we put $8,000.00 into the City Center fund for this season and to plan on contributing an additional '$8,000.00 for the next 2 years after this current year. Then we put the $1,000.00 budget item line in the ' Boy Scout project. That we put an additional $4,000.00 in the Lake Susan for ballfield improvements relating to the lighting. That could be, that could include bleachers or other improvements that would be suitable for night. Night use. Koubsky: Any idea on a contingency fund? We have no contingency fund? ' Andrews: Thank you. We have $1,000.00 in there now. Lash: What do you think is an appropriate amount Todd? 1 Hoffman: For contingency? You'll spend $1,000.00 in one little strike. Andrews: I think we need to have that up at 5. $5,000.00. Schroers: Did we need the $4,000.00 to compliment the lighting project at Lake Susan? 1 Hoffman: As far as additional bleachers? ' Schroers: Yeah. Hoffman: Well, additional bleachers are requested by the Athletic Association on an annual basis as their events grow. Whether those would go at Lake Susan or Meadow Green or up at City Center Park, but again we'vE been buying one or two sets of bleachers on an annual basis to meet the need. 1 Schroers: Yeah I guess I was having trouble following Jim because it seems to me like you were coming up with more than that $25,000.00. ' Andrews: Yes I am. That's exactly right. What I'm saying is that I feel that we can exceed our original target. The only reason I think that way is because of seeing the plans come in for the Target. For the other malls that seem to be coming. I feel fairly comfortable with the fact. Schroers: That we can exceed our overall budget? Andrews: We're going to have more cashflow than we originally... Park and Rec Commission Meeting 1 August 25, 1992 - Page 35 Lash: So our budget was supposed to be, we were supposed to try to stic ll to $150,000.00. Hoffman: Correct. And I tend to agree with Commissioner Andrews but I 1 would stick to the $150,000.00 recommendation. Target will come in. It will match, if it does get approved, it will match similar funds, revenu to what the supermarket development was. Past that point, we don't have anything right on the verge of being constructed. There's certainly many proposals out there. I feel very comfortable with that figure. The number does come out of the City Manager's office and would not be at the discretion of the Park Commission to arbitrarily change it at this point ,without additional review. But again, if we do take in $25,000.00 more in revenue than expected, that just goes into the back account and if we aril at, as addressed in earlier presentations, we are at a low. Schroers: Then we can spend it as we get it, not before we get it? Hoffman: Correct. We are at low tide. We're at the cash on hand of $225,000.00. Barely covering our reserves where 4 years ago we were at a high of cash on hand of over $600,000.00. 1 Schroers: I like what Jim is doing but I think we have to do it within the $150,000.00 framework so if you just want to reword that Jim. Lash: But we can't. If we take, if we started out at $167,000.00. We take off $17,000.00 from City Center, that leaves $8,000.00 like we just talked. Then we're at $150,000.00 so we don't have any then to put into l the contingency or the Boy Scouts or the tree farm or anything else. So that means we've got to cut something somewhere else if we want to have a contingency fund. And Boy Scout projects. So we've got to go back to tli drawing board. Erickson: We're looking for things to cut out of the '93 budget. Make 1 sure I'm on track here, right? Schroers: Yep, the '93. Erickson: I was the one who originally brought up Chanhassen Pond Park.' Repair the observation platform. You have $2,000.00 on that. Maybe we could bump that to '94. My greatest concern with that is really a safetli issue, not so much making sure people can see the park. That's not a hi priority item. It'd be something that we should either tear down that deci or fix it. Maybe we can just have Boy Scouts tear it out of there. Or maintenance tear it out of there_. Put the improvement for '94. Or mayb even '95 and then at that point build it. Build a new one. I don't hea neighbors clamboring for an observation deck repaired at Chanhassen Pond Park. Although I think somewhere down the road, maybe next year, the yell after, if that would be a good idea. Lash: But if it's a safety issue, it needs to be addressed. Erickson: That at least has to be torn down which shouldn't cost us any money. Maybe maintenance can go out there and tear it down. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 36 1 Lash: So you're comfortable with that? 1 Erickson: I'm comfortable or moving it onto '94. • Andrews: I have another item. I'm wondering under Lake Ann, we have $10,500.00 for the trail loop. Over the last years, there have been a few opportunities where that's been done under city hours rather than out of the budget. Park budget. Is there any chance we could look to that area 11 for a little squeeze there? Lash: What is a bituminous, what is that anyway? 1 Hoffman: Bituminous trail loop. Is a trail loop which has been grubbed out and cleared in this large treed section of the western edge of the park. It's an unused portion of the park and to be able to get folks in there to enjoy that portion of the park would be a nice amenity. Through the ADA requirements, the comments you are seeing is that gravel, turf, those types of trails really just don't cut it anymore in regards to ' accessibility. You should be looking to bituminous surfacing. However, this has been tagged on and deleted over the past couple of years. It's $10,500.00, which by the way is simply for material only. We will be doinc the installation so if we contracted that job out, it would cost us ' $30,000.00. Lash: This has been postponed several years but when I read this, I lookec ' at that too and guiltily thought well it can be postponed again but then I thought maybe it was something connected with the new picnic shelter. That it was something in that area that needed to be done. ' Schroers: Yeah, what actual amenities would this trail serve? What would it tend to do? It wouldn't tend to give people another easier access down to the beach from the western parking lot. It wouldn't do anything but 1 provide a trail loop correct? Hoffman: Correct, sure. Schroers: And a pretty small loop. 1 Hoffman: Yeah. The square footage or the lineal feet is upstairs. It's plotted on an aerial if anybody's interested in taking a look at it. But we are somewhat deficient in our city in recreational trails and a place tc go and walk and that is what it would be providing. The woods there is 1 very... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) 1 Schroers: ...It's where the gravel is now and you can go down to the west end of the beach that way. Part of it. Hoffman: Part of it yeah but it meanders through the entire western edge of the woods there. And again, trails have been specified in the, potentially not this type of trail. They're looking for access to and from ' their neighborhoods to parks and to the downtown but trails nevertheless are rated extremely high. Higher than anything else in the survey. 1 II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 37 Schroers: Yeah, I'm just wondering how much a trail of that type and of that length would actually get used. I mean how many people are going t say drive out to the park so they can walk it. It probably wouldn't be mile. Hoffman: The entire two loops are, close to a mile. Andrews: I agree with Larry. I just don't see it as a destination activity. Schroers: I think that a lot of people aren't even going to know it's' there. 1 Koubsky: Especially without mosquito control. Erickson: I'm sorry, where's the loop again? 1 Lash: It's up in the woods. Erickson: In Lake Ann? Schroers: In Lake Ann and west of the ballfields. It probably stays °nil this side of the creek. Where the creek goes underneath the road and ova Erickson: It's that gravel path that goes from like one of the parking ramps back to that sand volleyball thing? Hoffman: It shows the entire thing. Why don't you just continue to discuss it and I'il go get it. ' Lash: What we need to do is look for a fairly big buck item that we're willing to postpone in order to have these other things and there's only 1 two of them on here. One is that and the other one is Sunset Ridge play area expansion 2. Phase 2. Andrews: I don't think we can delete that. , Schroers: No, I don't think we should either. I really think that, you know as much as I like trails, I like bicycling and walking and jogging lic all that but I think a one mile trail through that woods, very few peopl are going to know about it. I think it's going to be used very little. I really don't see that as an amenity. I don't see anybody saying oh, I they've got a new one mile paved trail down at Lake Ann. Let's go down there and use it. Andrews: They're not going to drive to that as a destination. Schroers: It doesn't go anywhere. It's a loop. A few people in particular who jog around there or walk their dogs around there may use II but I don't see it as something that's going to be as attractive to the city as a whole. Berg: What was the rationale for proposing it in the first place? If tilE 1 II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 38 has been postponed 2 or 3 times. What was the rationale for having it on there? Lash: Well it's just a turf trail now. 1 Schroers: Yeah, it's supposed to be kind of nature. Lash: Didn't an Eagle Scout do it or something? Brush it out before or how did that get there? ,Hoffman: No... • ' Berg: Why did someone sometime decide that $10,500.00 was a good idea to spend on this? Erickson: The basic rationale is you get a giant piece of woods there, let's go walk through it? Hoffman: Right... Erickson: Just a big piece of land that we're not utilizing. ' Lash: So it was a nature trail and if people aren't using it now as a nature trail, are they going to use it when it's paved? Probably not. 1 Erickson: Oh, this is the existing one. Schroers: Yeah, this is the existing one... Erickson: I like this little trail here. I didn't know that that was all parkland. • Hoffman: You and everybody else. Erickson: Yeah, and you may want to keep it that way. I think the trail': ' a good idea. If not this year. There's already a nice walk at Lake Ann from Lake Ann, the swimming beach and everything over to Greenmeadow Shores. There's a nice... Schroers: Todd, can we just straighten this out and run it around the lakf and hook up to the existing trail on the east side? I'll go for that. ' Koubsky: You'd have a hard time pulling that one out. Lash: How do you access...where you get into it? Up at the top of the ' hill by the volleyball? Schroers: No, just opposite of Field 2. Hoffman: Two separate points for access there. Well actually three. Lash: But it's off the parking area then? Schroers: Right off the parking area in here. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 39 Koubsky: There's a little gate there. Schroers: Yeah. You can access off of the shore down there. Coming up from the beach... Andrews: I'm ready to bail you guys out here. I've got the perfect answer. Schroers: Oh good. I'm glad somebody does. 1 Andrews: We'll take the whole entire budget and... My idea was to do this. What Jan said is right. There's only a few logical targets here that can really make any real difference to our budget. My proposal is ' that we contribute $8,000.00 towards City Center this year, as I said before. That we allocate $1,000.00 for the Eagle Scout and we take $9,500.00 and put it in contingency which is a large amount for continge but I'm sure that we'll have needs come up next year, as Todd has stated, that we could easily use that in wise ways later. And that would then balance our budget. 1 Schroers: And eliminate the paving of the proposed. Andrews: Leave the trail loop and change our contribution to City Centel' to $8,000.00 instead of $25,000.00. Erickson: And the trail loop is just going to be forgotten about or movii onto future? Andrews: It'd be deferred. 1 Koubsky: Deferred indefinitely. Andrews: That " s one of the reasons I love that contingency. They're I fairly large is that, if there's an important issue, we've got a fairly sizeable amount of money to do something with. Schroers: And I do like the basic concept of this trail but I think thaII that's really a...since it doesn't really go anywhere except around in a circle. I just really don't see it being utilized by a large number of I people. If it was connecting something, it would be different but it's t so I guess I don't have a problem deferring it. I really think that that'E a luxury and not as much of a necessity. I Koubsky: As far now Randy too, it is grubbed out. You can go in there one walk around. Erickson: You can walk it now? It's just not bituminous? I Schroers: It's kind of like mountain bike trails now. Lash: Well would it be like walking around Chan Pond Park? Schroers: More dirt I think. 1 II Park and Rec Commission Meeting August 25, 1992 - Page 40 Hoffman: And did your recommendation include the deletion of the $2,000.0C on the repair of the platform? Andrews: I did not. I feel that we cannot responsibly defer that. Schroers: Okay. So that is a motion. Do we have a second on that? Koubsky: I'll second that. Andrews moved, Koubsky seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council approve the 1993 Park Acquisition and ' Development Capital Improvement Program amended as follows: To contribute $8,000.00 towards City Center for 1993 with an additional $8,000.00 for each of the following two years, allocate $1,000.00 for Eagle Scout projects, and put $9,500.00 into a contingency fund. All voted in favor and the motion carried. FALL RECREATION PROGRAM SCHEDULE. Lash: Chairman Schroers and Commission members. The fall recreation 1 program update which is quite exciting, will be brought to you by Jerry one Dawn. Ruegemer: Like Todd said, in looking at our 1992 fall newsletter that did come out I feel is one of our most popular and most exciting newsletter in recreation...to offer that our department has seen in a number of years. There's the programs that effect virtually every age group in our city. WE do have programs for preschool kids, elementary kids, teens...and so forth. The adult activities and then senior activities. So it appears that we arE touching every section of population in our city. What we're going to do is briefly kind of go through each age category as it appears on the memo itself. If there's any questions going through the memo, just please feel free to stop and ask away. I'd be more than happy to answer those for you. Starting with our Chanhassen Kids Club. In the past we've talked to ' various groups in our district and it appeared to me that there was a need for an after school program. This summer Dawn and I have both talked about it throughout the summer and...take the opportunity to act on that notion and try to offer a program for after school. That after school program will be on Mondays and Fridays when school is in session. It would be... That will be daily occurring from 3:30 to 5:30 to 6 :00 is what we're putting in... That would be at the elementary school...having the gym available for kids who'd like to play basketball or do other types of activities in there. Different special events. We will be...occasionally field trips and going to...so it will really be kind of a socialization 1 program verus traditional education... Andrews: Is this a fee for service program or no charge program? 1 Ruegemer: It is a fee. It's a self supporting program. Lash: What is the fee, do you know? 1