CC Minutes 03-25-2013Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
CROSSROADS RETAIL BUILDING 4B: REQUEST FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE
CHANHASSEN GATEWAY PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD) TO ALLOW A FAST
FOOD DRIVE-THRU; AND AMENDMENT TO THE CROSSROADS OF CHANHASSEN SITE
PLAN FOR A 13,871 SQ. FT. RETAIL BUILDING (4B); LOCATED ON THE EASTERLY
PORTION OF 8971 CROSSROADS BOULEVARD, LOT 2, BLOCK 1, CROSSROADS OF
CHANHASSEN; APPLICANT: KRAUS-ANDERSON REALTY COMPANY.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s start with the staff report please. Then we’ll hear from the developer. There was a
public hearing at the Planning Commission so we don’t need to repeat that. If there is some specific
comments that the public would like to share, we’d be happy to listen to that too and then we’ll move
forward with council comments and action. So Ms. Aanenson, let’s start with you.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. As you stated this item did appear
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before the Planning Commission at their March 5 meeting and they did unanimously recommend
approval of the project. Again as you stated it is a site plan approval with a minor PUD amendment. The
subject site is located at the northwest corner of 101 and Lyman Boulevard. Just in summary comments
from the Planning Commission, again they did vote unanimously to approve and neighborhood comments
regarding the traffic, sight lines and the like so through the presentation we’ll try to address those as
we’ve asked the applicant to further address those to mitigate those concerns. Just want to give a little
background on this property. It was a mixed use development. Mixed use land use, excuse me.
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me Ms. Aanenson. Do you have a presentation? Can we get that up on the
screen for people here and those at home? Thank you. Not that those aren’t pretty.
Kate Aanenson: Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. So the mixed use is actually was guided for commercial
and for high density so as this project came forward in 2005 there was a conceptual approval given on a
project that actually had significant amount of apartments and some commercial zoning that met the
standard at that time and that project, while it was given conceptual approval, as you know it has no legal
standing but it kind of gives some marching orders and the property, or the project was sold and a
different developer came forward with another proposal. And that proposal really came to fruition in
about 2008 and the first component of that was actually Phase I which would have been the gas station,
the Kwik Trip was the first project that was approved. As a part of that project we put together a PUD for
the entire parcel and looked at the phasing and what uses could go on there and to date some of those uses
have changed. For the original proposal what we looked at potentially a liquor store with another drive
thru facility or another restaurant ended up becoming the Primrose which came to fruition in 2012 so
there was kind of a gap between the gas station in 2008 and kind of where we were in the economic cycle
that we went through and then the fruition of the daycare so the daycare was kind of, it was a permitted
use in the zoning district but really wasn’t where kind of the original thought was for that to land. So that
brings us kind of to date to where we are with this project. So this project again would be to the site plan
and this lot and block would be for the retail building, one story. The other building on there is a multi-
tenant building. That’s the building along Lyman Boulevard so this is a single story and if you look at the
PUD standards that were contemplated at that time we anticipated potential coffee shop to go in there and
the PUD ordinance specifically said the drive thru could be for a coffee shop only. If you were to look at
again the ordinance itself, it does allow for restaurants but for the fact that this user wants to have the
drive thru, it requires the PUD amendment. If they didn’t want it, it would be a permitted use in the
zoning district and the Planning Commission spent some time discussing this or not the merits of how the
drive thru would work for a coffee shop versus a fast food restaurant and again we were looking at the
fast food. As you know when you could approve one it can become something else so they spent a lot of
time just looking at the fast food itself and how that would work and the circulation. So with that the
Planning Commission felt that it, the way the design worked that it met the warrants. Just for background
too, the staff spent a lot of time working with the user for the fast food. They were actually looking at
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
other sites on the property. Larger sites. Again a restaurant is a permitted use in that district and we
wanted to control the square footage of that and regulate that so we felt putting it on the end cap and
turning that building actually provided better screening from, and kind of made the use a little bit smaller
than it could have been in a different building site, which had been contemplated by the developer. So
with this it will be in one phase. So the parking shown in yellow is what will be built with this that would
accommodate the entire square footage of this phase of the building which is approximately 13,000 so the
parking shown in that yellow would be with this phase.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry Ms. Aanenson, could you back up there.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: The drive aisle there, the gray area, that would all be included in this phase as well?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct.
Mayor Furlong: And it looks like it’s going to connect and have an opening to the Kwik Trip to the
north?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Drive there or off of the road.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Kate Aanenson: So with that the building elevations again we had the standards put in place for the PUD
itself and this matches the brick that’s out there. Again Sharmeen Al-Jaff on our staff spent a lot of time
with the architects really refining the design and getting it to so the McDonalds really could be timeless.
Could be something else if it, if something else were to go in there. It didn’t reflect really their traditional
standards. I would say this is very different from what they’ve got elsewhere in the marketplace in this
area so I think we did a good job trying to make that blend in and we can show the material samples that
are here on the table again using kind of the, I’ve got the right camera on there. Looking at the bricks and
the colors that match so again trying to make that anticipating things change over time. If another user
would to come in that would be easy to change that out if a different restaurant wanted to go in in that
site. Again we’re not just looking at the fast food area. We’re looking at the rest of the tenants that
would go into this building so again they have their, this is illustrative of where their signs could go. So
again we do want to look at the cohesiveness of this. The sidewalk, trails connecting those uses together
so this would show how you can get between the two uses. This also has outdoor seating. We notice
with the Kwik Trip that’s something we did want to put in there. We know that people do sit outside and
enjoy that and we wanted to make that part of that neighborhood concept too of how that all works and
we think that’s a nice element of kind of that neighborhood concept. The landscaping plan I’ll show in a
minute a little bit more illustratively kind of how that works but when we angled that building, worked
with the architects to angle the building we believe that really provides mitigation from the impacts, the
road elevations. The drive aisle is lower than the road elevation by a couple of feet. Then you’ve got a
berm that’s another couple of feet so you’re at least 4 feet before you get to the road and on top of that
additional landscaping would be provided there to really provide mitigation from any impacts from the
car circulation. So again this is a perspective showing, looking from 212. Looking at the signage and the
look of the Kwik Trip and the buildings. And this would be an interior shot looking at the McDonalds
from inside the parking lot, if you were pulling in off the interior street and the rest of the tenants also.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
And this would be looking from the Springfield neighborhood, looking across. Now this building here
would be the two story building with retail on the first floor and office on the second floor. That is not
yet being proposed. So we did look at the overall building area, kind of where we saw because there was
some concerns that things had changed and if you look at, as I mentioned, the original proposal we
actually had two buildings here contemplated and that became the one building for the daycare. Again
over time things have changed. That daycare was a permitted use. Ended up being in a different location
and a little bit bigger than was really contemplated so now it sits in this location with the parking to the
rear. So then this site, what we did then is we worked to get this building angled again providing for that
mitigation of the potential impact so the total square footage is still less than what was contemplated in
the original PUD. I did skip over the traffic. I wanted to talk about that for a minute. This is some of the
Planning Commission packets. I don’t have, maybe Paul if you want to talk about traffic. I’ll pull up the
information regarding the uses that we looked at for trip generation based on how much traffic would be
associated with the gas station as opposed to what’s associated with the fast food or some of the other
uses that are in there.
Paul Oehme: So thank you Mayor and City Council members. Westwood Development engineers, they
assisted or the City requested that a traffic study be completed for this development and we did look at
phasing in traffic analysis based upon what the current proposal, development is versus and including the
ultimate design as well too. Looking at the traffic. Not just internally circulations but also how, what
impacts potentially would be on 101 and Lyman Boulevard. We also looked at the level of service for the
intersections. Westwood did collect traffic counts for these intersections as well and turning movements
and based upon the data that was collected and the traffic analysis that was done based upon the traffic
engineering, trip generations, most of the intersections will be functioning at a level of service C which is
consistent with what’s currently out there today. The only caveat to that is the intersection of 101 and the
off ramp of 212, that intersection in 2020 looks like it might break down a little bit. There’s, we need to
look a little bit more in depth with the signal timing at that intersection and there is a potential need for a
right turn lane to northbound 101 at that intersection in the future so you know as this area develops we’re
going to be monitoring that intersection and see if we can, if turn lane warrants are met at that
intersection.
Mayor Furlong: So to help me understand, picture in our minds here, you’re saying that possible
improvement in the future would be a, for traffic coming off of 212, around the you return up to 101, you
may need to add in a right turn lane?
Paul Oehme: Right turn lane to northbound.
Mayor Furlong: That doesn’t exist there now.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, that’s correct. I believe it’s a through and a left turn.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: So in the future when this area develops a little bit more and more traffic potentially comes
off that intersection there might be some more back-up onto the off ramp of 212 so that’s the concern that
MnDOT and the County and the City share. We’ve got to monitor that and see if in the future if that right
turn lane is warranted.
Mayor Furlong: But if traffic that wants to come off 212 into this development, there’s still going to be a
through lane straight at that point for them to go straight in.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Paul Oehme: Correct, yeah. In the future there would most likely be a designated right turn lane, a
through lane and a right turn lane as well.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. To make it easier for those coming in.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: Also the intersection of, the west intersection at Lyman and, over by the daycare was
looked at too and that we’ll have to monitor that intersection as well in the future when this development
is fully developed and see if there’s a need for a signal at that intersection or some other modification at
that intersection are needed as well.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And has that changed significantly? Has the traffic changed significantly from
when this development was first proposed?
Paul Oehme: Not, no. I wouldn’t say it’s changed significantly. It’s pretty close to what we envisioned
for the PUD. It did go up a little bit. I don’t have those numbers in front of me right now but it wasn’t
significant where we need to re-evaluate the whole traffic model or the whole traffic circulation in this
area.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Alright, Ms. Aanenson, anything else?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, we have a couple of drawings on the G Drive. I’m going to try to pull those up
here. If you can give me just one minute. So they showed kind of the perspective looking from the
neighbors and, we’ll just load this up in a second.
Councilman Laufenburger: Can I just, Mr. Mayor? Mr. Oehme, who has decision authority on when
that, the top of that ramp gets changed? Is that a State authority, County authority or is that the City’s
authority?
Paul Oehme: It’s MnDOT jurisdiction. The State’s jurisdiction but they would, since it’s a local impact,
development driven, more traffic in that area, they look to us to, you know to work with us on evaluating
when that turn lane should be going in.
Councilman Laufenburger: How about the cost? Covering the cost of taking those two lanes right now,
the left turn and then the straight through and right turn, the cost of widening that if necessary or re-
striping it or re-timing. Is that a City responsibility or is that a MnDOT responsibility?
Paul Oehme: Well 101 is County and MnDOT has jurisdiction again on the off ramp. It’s a local street
into the development so we potentially would have about you know 25% of potential improvements to the
intersection. If there’s a signal changed to the intersection but in terms of the turn lane, which is under
MnDOT’s jurisdiction, I don’t think they would, we would be responsible for that cost. I mean that’s
something that would have to be worked out in the future. There are grant dollars that the City can apply
for. Cooperative grant dollars that could help offset some of the cost that MnDOT has for those
improvements but we’d be a partner in trying to get those improvements made.
Councilman Laufenburger: Paul here’s the reason for my question. I think that while it sounds like 2020
is like a check point, is that right? I’m hearing issues right now where if somebody is lined up to go
straight through. Let’s see you’re headed east on 212 and you come and you make the circle ramp, you’re
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
at the top of the ramp now and if you’re heading east and somebody behind you wants to make a right
turn, what they find themselves doing is kind of inching their way between that car and the curb. So
there’s appears to be a wide enough area there so I guess I would encourage that if there’s something that
could be done sooner than later that would make sense from a safety standpoint and also just
accommodating that turn.
Paul Oehme: Okay. That’s good information.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Ms. Aanenson.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor. So back to looking at the proposal, the project. So the building that
we’re looking at for site plan approval tonight then before you is this building but this illustrative drawing
shows the, kind of the mix of the entire site so to date we have the Kwik Trip and the car wash built, and
Primrose so these are the additional buildings. Now all these buildings then in this area would have cross
access agreements so this drawing is newer than when it went to the Planning Commission. I think it
shows a little bit more clearly the sidewalks and the buffer. The additional landscaping. In addition we
asked that we show the perspective. I did want to show on this McDonalds sign here then. This would be
facing from the Kwik Trip, those would be not permitted so you did see some of these. So these are the
perspectives I wanted to share with you then so this would be the drawings from the Springfield
neighborhood. How far that would be and you can see the change in grade and so again if you look at
those contours, as I stated earlier the cars sitting 2 feet below, the lowest part of the berm and then it goes
up another 2 feet so you’re really 4 feet below kind of that point of the top of the berm here and then
you’ve got that additional landscaping. Then you’ve got in excess of 800 feet then as you get towards the
neighborhood there. So we really don’t believe that as far as the car lights or those sort of things, that it
should be an impact. In addition there will be development in this area of the project in front of the
Southwest Transit. Some additional housing in that area there. So with that another perspective from a
different house there. Again to kind of summarize the total square footage there and so the PUD then
does allow for the coffee shop drive thru and that’s what we specifically said. We said not for fast food.
In working with them, trying to put it on a different site on the property, a different use, quantifying it
under that 4,000 square feet with the driveway, the staff felt that because it was a permitted use, the
restaurant itself, that we could manage that in such a way, through the design that we felt that that PUD
amendment did make sense. In addition we did talk about kind of some of those trip generations that
were warranted and based on that Kwik Trip really generates more trips and that is considered a
neighborhood use than with the fast food. Similarly look at the daycare just slightly less than that so with
that in mind, kind of taking all those factors into consideration because I think that came up as a challenge
to the Planning Commission. Is this a neighborhood use or not and how many trips are going to be there
that would be outside the neighborhood or people coming from further away so again kind of felt
consistent with maybe who may be going to the gas station or the daycare some of them outside the
neighborhood that felt the Planning Commission in addition concurred with that, that it could be made to
fit that definition of the neighborhood use. So with that we are recommending approval, as did the
Planning Commission for the construction of the one story building, adoption of the Findings of Fact and
also in addition to that we are recommending the approval of the summary ordinance for publication
purposes. So with that I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Couple years ago I learned a big lesson when Burger King came in on
Highway 5 and Galpin and they really, that was never in our plans to have something like that actually
appear in it and see that it just kind of happened overnight. Are there any potential opportunities for other
fast food restaurants with drive thru’s to develop in this parcel?
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Kate Aanenson: Well the way that we have the PUD ordinance structured would be that, if you read the
ordinance as stated in place, it would require another amendment because right now we’re saying it can
only be at this specific location. There is potential for a bank with a drive thru, which is permitted so this
is a restaurant. I’m not sure for their purposes that that would work but any other drive thru would again,
besides the bank, would have to come back in for another amendment.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: But is this building allowing this use setting a precedence for the rest of the
development?
Kate Aanenson: No because, I don’t know how you could put one on the end of this one. I guess.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I don’t mean to put you on the spot but, because I learned my lesson that
it’s better to think of these things now than later.
Kate Aanenson: Well I guess the staff’s position is, and the Planning Commission felt this way, because
we had contemplated a drive thru at this location, then the discussion became if we accepted a drive thru
and fast food restaurant is a permitted use, and how do they function? What are the traffic components?
So we tried to measure that up against what’s permitted in the neighborhood district? How does that
neighborhood district function and so based on those criteria we felt that that would work. So is there
room for somewhere else? Not as it’s written in the ordinance. They’d have to give up square footage in
order to accommodate that to make it work. They’d have to give up some additional square footage for
one of the future buildings.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Because I mean I understand what the neighborhood is thinking and feeling
and so I would hate to even expand upon that use even more and so I just would like to clarify for the fact
that it would be very difficult.
Kate Aanenson: Right, and I think too to that point, you know we had a large gap between when Kwik
Trip came in and the Primrose and it sat there for a while and Primrose at that location wasn’t what we
contemplated either so I think within that framework we always try to stick to what uses we have
permitted in there and that was our goal from the beginning with the developer when they started looking
at doing a free standing one. A much larger that we discouraged that and they really wanted to try to go
forward with that so they worked hard to get it into what we believe, what could have been the same
space. A little bit larger than the coffee and try to make it function and meet those same desires so I think
we worked hard or they worked hard, the applicant worked really hard to make that design work. It was
6 months of just trying to say could it even meet those goals.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you Kate.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members. The action that you would take tonight would not establish a
precedent for future projects down the line. The request tonight is to include a drive thru so if there was
to be another drive thru other than the bank they would have to go through the same process that Kraus-
Anderson is taking you through tonight so there is no precedent setting. The applicant or whoever it may
be can always come back before the council and request but your actions tonight would not set a
precedent.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: And Mr. Gerhardt, the would be true not only on this site but of other areas that are
guided for neighborhood commercial?
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Todd Gerhardt: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Because this is a PUD and specific to this.
Todd Gerhardt: That is correct.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for Ms. Aanenson.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mayor, I’ve got a question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Kate, when I was reading through the packet I noticed that there, well two things
and correct me if I’m wrong but I thought that it said that Kwik Trip today, actually there’s probably
about 3,000 cars. 3,000 some odd cars that go to Kwik Trip today, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: Do you want to answer that Paul?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, approximately 3,000, yeah.
Councilwoman Ernst: And so one of the concerns that was brought up was the daycare and how the
traffic backs up today, and I read the response to that and I just wasn’t quite comfortable with the
response. I’m wondering if you can expound on that a little bit more because that seems like it could
create a real issue.
Paul Oehme: The traffic at the daycare, are you referring to the intersection at Lyman or?
Councilwoman Ernst: It is at the intersection of Crossroads Boulevard.
Kate Aanenson: And Lyman?
Councilwoman Ernst: And Lyman.
Paul Oehme: And Lyman? And Lyman, okay. You know that’s one of those intersections that we are
monitoring. I know the County had some concerns with that intersection as well. There is I think an a.m.
and p.m. peak hour back-up right in there now currently but when the model was completed, you know
the level of service at the time waiting for vehicles to get onto Lyman Boulevard based upon other
intersections that see that type of traffic, the wait times were at an acceptable level at this time. In the
future though again we’re going to be monitoring that intersection. You know there might be a need for
a signal in the future if and when that, the next phase of the development comes through there. Maybe
there’s some other access restraints or configurations that we have to look at too to make that intersection
flow a little bit better. To my knowledge there hasn’t been any accidents at that intersection but that’s one
thing that you know again we’re going to be monitoring in the future and if we need to make some
changes there we’re definitely going to look at that.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah, because with the increased traffic that will be coming through there I would
have some concerns with that so.
Paul Oehme: Okay.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions? Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Paul regarding that intersection, Crossroads
Boulevard and Lyman, it’s kind of a self regulating queue on there isn’t there because as they exit
Primrose with their cars facing east, they can turn south towards Lyman or they can turn left toward a
controlled intersection, right?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct. There’s two access points there so you know.
Councilman Laufenburger: If somebody wants to go west on Lyman they would likely go south towards
Crossroads Boulevard and then make that right turn. And if they wanted to go anywhere else they might
even go to the controlled intersection.
Paul Oehme: They definitely could do that too.
Councilman Laufenburger: I suppose unless they were going south on 101, in which case they might try
to make that left turn onto Lyman.
Paul Oehme: Right, and I believe you know, I believe that the traffic for the McDonalds and the
improvements that we’re talking about tonight, a lot of that traffic is going to be directed more to the
north.
Councilman Laufenburger: Towards the controlled intersection.
Paul Oehme: To the controlled intersection than to the south.
Todd Gerhardt: And you’ve got the free right if you’re going to go south.
Councilman Laufenburger: Right. Kate bear with me on this. I have some notes kind of spattered
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throughout the packet. There was mention too, this was back in 2008, January 24 the City requested the
vacation of right-of-way along old Trunk Highway 101. Portion of the old highway, etc. Has MnDOT
vacated old 101 both north of 212 and south of 212?
Kate Aanenson: I know they have south. Do you want to comment on that Paul?
Councilman Laufenburger: How about north of 212?
Paul Oehme: North of 212.
Councilman Laufenburger: By the Gateway, has that been vacated as well?
Paul Oehme: Exactly, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Let’s see. Just bear with me Mr. Mayor for a second. Okay
Kate. Initially, I’m quoting from your packet. Initially the applicant proposed replacing the bank
building with a stand alone fast food restaurant and staff was opposed to that drive thru approach. Can
you talk about why?
Kate Aanenson: Sure because I think that, to us that really moved away.
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Councilman Laufenburger: By the way just, could you just reference the area on the screen?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, thank you. So this is the bank building.
Councilman Laufenburger: Or it’s identified as a bank. There’s no bank tenant going in there.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is there any money waiting there?
Kate Aanenson: No.
Mayor Furlong: It’s buried.
Kate Aanenson: It’s buried, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: So why did the staff oppose that?
Kate Aanenson: The reason being is that we thought that moved too far away from the integrity of the
intent of the ordinance. We always anticipated the original plans always showed a coffee drive thru at the
end of the building so we thought that was truer to the original approval so being the fact that again as I
stated earlier that it was always contemplated a drive thru. It just moved from a permitted use of
restaurant to now a restaurant with a drive thru. That was the change so we thought that would, and it
kept the size smaller for that type of a use as opposed to the bank building which is significantly larger.
And while we’re on that I just want to point out one other thing which I didn’t mention. This came up at
the Planning Commission is that if you recall when Kwik Trip came in they wanted a big pylon sign and
the staff really supported not doing that and.
Councilman Laufenburger: Remind us why they wanted a big pylon sign.
Kate Aanenson: So you could see it from quite a ways away and we felt that was really moving away
from the integrity of what we thought was kind of more neighborhood and that people that want to see it,
they can see the blue signs and come off the, and find it but we felt it really moved away from that.
Councilman Laufenburger: So you’re saying somebody turning onto 212 in Mitchell, South Dakota
won’t be able to see that Kwik Trip sign above the freeway?
Kate Aanenson: That’s right. That’s right, but so just to be clear I want to show those McDonalds sign
there’s an additional one that’s showing on the north side, facing Kwik Trip that does have to be removed
so they get the two signs. One on the internal. One on 101 and there is no additional monument signs or
anything on that so it’s really pretty low key as far as the colors. You know they’ve got just the one, the
gold color that’s their theme so I think the staff and the applicant worked really hard to make that again
blend into the architecture that we already had set in place for that whole project so there’s not additional
signage. Yes, there could potentially be a restaurant blue sign on 212 as does Kwik Trip but we tried not
to put a big pylon sign that people could see from all over. That was not our intent I wanted to make sure
that was clear. That’s part of the site plan approval that you’d be approving tonight.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. One more thing Kate. Do we know specifically all of the tenants that
are earmarked for this facility and has that been confirmed with the developer or is that still in question?
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Kate Aanenson: The only one I’m aware of is the one that you’ve approved, and that was for a liquor
store that you have approved a liquor license for. That’s the only one I’m aware of that’s ready to go
forward. The applicant may have additional information on the other mix of tenants in there.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. I’m going to piggy back on what Councilwoman Ernst said. There
was a question raised, and I’ll quote, the proposed use will not tend to or actually depreciate the area in
which it is proposed and the finding is the proposed use is intended to meet the daily needs of the area. It
could potentially add convenience to the homeowners in the area. Can you think of any manner in which
a fast food restaurant with a drive thru could potentially depreciate any element of this area?
Kate Aanenson: I guess again we looked at it from not just this specific user, because when we look at
fast food as a generic because somebody else could come in there and I think because we did non-
traditional franchise architect, this isn’t their prototype, they wanted to be here. They were willing to
provide much higher standards that it’s a nice looking building and it’s integrated so I think it blends in
well.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is there any evidence to suggest that, ah I’m not going to ask that one. Just a
moment. This is for you Paul. Do I read this right?
Mayor Furlong: Sit up straight.
Councilman Laufenburger: Sorry. Under the traffic it says MnDOT requires that the traffic study must
be updated to include an analysis of traffic volumes to the year 2023. That’s not a misprint right?
Paul Oehme: Right.
Councilman Laufenburger: So they want us to update and anticipate what the traffic will be 10 years out,
is that correct?
Paul Oehme: They want us to project, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Can we effectively do that?
Paul Oehme: We can. And I think Westwood is working on that. We just haven’t seen the final.
Councilman Laufenburger: Can you speak to that when you come up? Okay. Thank you. Thank you
Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other questions at this time for staff? Ms. Aanenson, I’m going
to go back to some basics perhaps but PUD. Using a PUD here rather than just standard ordinance and I
think you started mentioning that and generally that’s going to provide a trade-off between some relief
maybe that the developer’s looking from the standard ordinance and then the City’s going to ask for
something more. But you mentioned the architecture of the buildings is one aspect that’s been perceived
in your mind I think as one of the benefits of using the PUD here. What are some of the other aspects of
that? Utilizing the PUD here as opposed to just standard ordinance.
Kate Aanenson: Sure. We talked about architecture. We can also talk about signage. It’s also a
prescript list of uses that could go in there. If you look at what the underlying land use, it said
commercial or high density. Now if you look back at the original plans, we anticipated a couple hundred
unit apartment building there so over time it really limited or narrowed those list of uses. A shorter list of
uses that seemed, that worked within this area, the confines of this area and then within that we provided
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
cross access agreements so we could have you know walking between the uses and I guess those would
be the main points right there. And each one is unique. So this is unique to this neighborhood, which
might be a PUD with a neighborhood commercial. Might have some little bit different attributes but
again it’s very unique to this corner.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, and then I think it was also mentioned earlier the Burger King up at
Highway 5, Century Boulevard with the, which was, is that also PUD?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: It is?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Neighborhood PUD so very similar that went in when they asked for the drive
thru there. It wasn’t identified as a Burger King as the tenant because we were approving a type of use,
not a specific user. What has been the experience, and maybe Mr. Oehme this is part of the traffic issue
there to, what has been, do we have any sense of what the experience has been there? Have the fears been
realized? Have the benefits not?
Kate Aanenson: I think the first one was the smell. We did talk to the owner of that one and we
addressed that within the first month or two and they upgraded their hoods and how they managed that so
we have not had complaints. We have been up there checking on that too over time and that, and traffic
again we did go look at, for this application we did go look at some other, not only in this community but
in surrounding communities to see what the stacking lane, just to make sure that we had confidence in
what we’re recommending to you and so we did not see the problems there as far as stacking or blocking
of other uses in the, that would be in that multi-tenant building.
Mayor Furlong: And with regard to the problems you said you identified early on, within a month and
you asked the tenant or the developer to make some corrections. Have those been incorporated in this
development already?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Yes they have. Yeah, we’ve learned from those, yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so we’re starting out at a better position or what’s being proposed here is in a
better position than what…
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And Mr. Oehme, any issues with regard to traffic problems or problems in the
neighborhood at all with that development?
Paul Oehme: With the Burger King development Mayor, you know that was one of the bigger concerns
going into that development. I know there were some concerns with patrons from Burger King going into
the neighborhood and some turn around issues in the neighborhood and to my knowledge that hasn’t
th
come to fruition. I haven’t had any calls you know with those issues. I know 78 Street functions well at
this point in time. I don’t see any issues with that intersection how that functions right now.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Do we have any other experiences of a similar type of use in a neighborhood
commercial in town or others in neighboring towns that you’re aware of?
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Kate Aanenson: No, just the other one that we’ve got the other McDonalds that it’s a neighborhood
across the street off of Dakota there.
Mayor Furlong: Off Dakota near Highway 5.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And what has been our experience there?
Kate Aanenson: Well again we have learned through all these of you know how to manage those and
they do a good job as you know we’ve talked to them about managing the cleaning up of the site. Just
with any other good property manager and we’ve talked to them about how they’re going to take care of
that and we have you know feel good about how their plan is being proposed to us.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor and council members, we get a couple calls on the Thai restaurant in the
downtown area but they’re very quick to, it’s typically a maintenance issue in cleaning those grill covers
and filters and both Axel’s and the Thai restaurant are probably within 100 feet of residential there.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay, thanks. If there are no other questions for staff at this time I would invite
the applicant to come forward and address the council. Good evening.
Jack Appert: Good evening. Honorary Mayor Furlong and members of the council, my name’s Jack
Appert. I’m with Kraus-Anderson. First off thank you for your consideration of this proposal. We’ve
worked for a while with both Kate and Sharmeen and I’ll say they were very thorough in going through
this and I think you’ll find that we came up with what will be a great development for the city. In
addition I’m here with our team, Kathy Anderson, the architect and John Hagen and Dan Parks from
Westwood so they should be able to address a lot of the questions you’d have in particular. The traffic
concerns also. In regards to this setting a precedent, the lease that we have with McDonalds, one of their
exclusives is there can’t be any other quick service drive thru or anything like that on the site so it’s I
guess a non-issue for at least the term of their 20 year lease. And the traffic study, and I’ll have John
speak a little more to that. We did do one through the year 2032 and I believe the City has that and the
County and MnDOT has it as well and that I think shows everything that was needed so I will open it up
to any questions.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions? Apperdin, is that correct?
Jack Appert: Appert.
Mayor Furlong: Appert? Sorry about that.
Jack Appert: Yeah, that’s alright.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Appert? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah just I raised, thanks Jack for doing this and also understand that you’ve
been very proactive in connecting with the citizens so I just acknowledge that on your part. I would like
to know a little bit more about the details of what the traffic study has taught us so if that’s something you
or John could address.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Jack Appert: Yeah, I’ll have John come up.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. If you wouldn’t mind. John let me frame this, first your name and
who you are. We need that for the record.
Mayor Furlong: Please.
John Hagen: Mr. Mayor, members, excuse me. I apologize for my voice. I’ve got a little bit of a cold
but Mr. Mayor, members of the council, my name is John Hagen. I’m with Westwood Professional
Services. I did the traffic study for this development.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: John, let me frame this. There’s going to be a lot of activity on 101 or there
has been up til now for the last 5-6 years the upgrade of 101. The realignment off of Lake Susan, etc.
The City already has plans underway to improve the road substantially from Lyman south to Pioneer and
eventually we, many of us would like to see an improvement in the circuitous route that we take south
101, and then of course onto the ever permanent, never flooding again 101 to Shakopee. So what I’m
wondering is what have you learned in your study, what have you learned about the traffic that will be on
101 in the next 10-20 years, okay?
John Hagen: Yes. Thanks. One of the things that we did, in the packet there was a requirement by
MnDOT, Minnesota Department of Transportation to do a 20 year forecast. Originally when we came up
with the scope we did a year of opening or 1 year post development and that’s pretty typical for a
development of this size. MnDOT however wanted us to take a look at a 20 year forecast so that 2023 I
think in the packet actually is 2032 is what we did the update to the original traffic study.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So you went out 20 years from when essentially last year when you
really stepped up your, okay.
John Hagen: Correct. Correct. And how, there was an earlier question about you know how would we
project that traffic. Essentially what we did is we worked with MnDOT staff, MnDOT traffic forecasting
staff. They have you know traffic forecasting models that will take a look at land use and look at
projections you know from the City, from the County and they’ll develop traffic forecasts based off of
that. With this being a little bit smaller study we didn’t re-run the regional model for those forecasts.
However we worked with MnDOT staff to come up with a growth rate that would give us the same traffic
volumes in their 20 year forecast but that we could then apply to our existing traffic, so that’s essentially
what we did to come up with that 20 year, or the 2032 traffic volumes so.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And can you, is it possible for you to contrast what’s the traffic,
what’s the daily traffic today versus what you expect it to be in 2032? Are you able to paint that picture
for us?
John Hagen: Yeah. Essentially what the, it’s about 1.2, about a 1.2-1.25 growth rate you know factor.
So you take what the existing volumes are right now and you multiply it by a factor of 1.2, 1.21
approximately would be what the.
Councilman Laufenburger: That would be annual growth rate or that would be the growth rate over 20
years?
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
John Hagen: It’s a 1 percent growth rate per year but it’s compounded over that time so it’s essentially a
growth factor of 1.21.
Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, okay.
John Hagen: So but it’s yes, it’s 1 percent per year compounded.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
John Hagen: And that was an agreed upon, you know we worked with MnDOT and County staff to come
up with well what should be the appropriate growth rate and in consultation with MnDOT they suggested
that we use a one percent. They actually gave us a zero point, you know or a half a percent or a one
percent and in order to be conservative we decided that it’d be more appropriate to use the higher one or
the one percent per year.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So why is that traffic study important to this development at this time
John?
John Hagen: The reason that MnDOT requested the 20 year forecast is, I believe it’s mainly the concern
of that ramp intersection.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
John Hagen: Because one of the results that our original traffic study showed is that there would be some
vehicular queuing down the ramp towards the main line and so they wanted to see well okay if it’s going
to be extended over the next 5 years to the year 2018 which was our original forecast year, what would it
be in 20 years, because MnDOT generally likes to look at a 20 year forecast for their larger you know
improvements.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yep.
John Hagen: So that’s why we did the 20 year forecast and what we did, the interesting thing about the
20 year forecast that you know I should point out, there was a question about when that turn lane should
go in. That right.
Councilman Laufenburger: The right turn headed.
John Hagen: That westbound to northbound right turn lane. And one of the things that the study found is
that that right turn lane is going to be needed with or without any development on the subject site so
essentially what that means is it’s not the subject site that is causing that need. It’s the additional traffic
over time that you know whether or not this, I mean if this site remained vacant there still would be a
need for that right turn lane in the future. By the year 2032.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you John.
John Hagen: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions on traffic while he’s here? Okay. Don’t go away.
Something else might come up. Alright, thank you.
John Hagen: Yep.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Other questions for the applicant? Mr. Appert, you mentioned with this development,
curious as to the timing of the rest of the development. Do you have any thoughts or ideas on when some
of the other buildings might go forward?
Jack Appert: The plan as of right now would be to start the building, I think we have it as 4B, the
building we’re talking about, at the beginning of May and then with the idea being that that generates
quite a bit of interest to get the other buildings going. Hopefully towards the end of the summer into the
fall but if not a pretty realistic expectation would be same time next spring. Then we get another building
in so I mean it’s 2 or 3, 4 years to really come to full fruition.
Mayor Furlong: To complete the development then.
Jack Appert: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, very good thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: I did have one more Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes. Mr. Appert, referencing a photo that Kate had up earlier, can you show
the one that shows the development associated with this. It’s got the yellow highlight on the parking in
front of it. There. Okay. We know that the gray area and the yellow area and the yellow building area
fronting on 101, all of that will be developed with parking surface. How about that area that’s between
the two gray, there. What are you going to do with that?
Jack Appert: That will be, you know as of right now the plan is for that just to be rough graded and we’ll
put some seed down and grass. The reason being as opposed to doing that whole parking lot right now
and then when that building comes, say it’s in 3 months from now, then they end up having to tear up the
parking lot and utilities, all that so all the utilities will be put in and stubbed to the different lots. It will
just be that that section isn’t put in and strictly because of future construction.
Councilman Laufenburger: So you will put utilities into that area.
Jack Appert: Yeah, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, and then cover it with grass.
Jack Appert: Right. Seed and something like that, yep. That’s the plan.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, anything else? Mr. McDonald?
Councilman McDonald: Well I’ve got a question. I’m not sure if it’s directed to staff or back to your
traffic guy but just wondering as part of your study, did you look at the Kwik Trip as to where does most
of it’s traffic come from? Is it neighborhood traffic or is it traffic off of 212? Is it traffic generated
because of the bus station across the street? Where is, what kind of, I mean earlier we looked at
community development and a lot of the traffic was going to come from within the community to support
the business. I’m just wondering how that’s evolved over time.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Jack Appert: Yeah I’ll let John address that.
John Hagen: I don’t know if, okay. In regards to your question about the directional distribution or
where the traffic is coming to and from. Let’s see if I can move this over a little bit more. There we go.
What you see here is a figure that shows the directional distribution of the traffic to and from the
proposed development. Essentially about 25% of the traffic is projected to be coming from the south.
About 5% to the east on Lyman. About 15% to the west. 35% to the north on 101. And then 5%, 5% to
the east on 212 and then 15% on the west of 212. So this directional distribution was consistent with the
earlier study that was done for this site and it was also, that original traffic study that was done for the
original PUD also based it’s traffic projections and the directional distribution based off of the earlier
study of the park and ride. So we feel pretty confident that you know where the traffic will be coming
from to this site. I don’t know if that answers your question.
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me, Mr. McDonald if I may. Is this, are these directional indications then, are
these current or are these projected when the site is fully developed and the other areas are developed as
well? Is this a 2032?
John Hagen: This is traffic that is destined to and from the proposed development.
Mayor Furlong: In what time period? Currently? 2032 or do we expect that to be the same throughout
the.
John Hagen: Well it essentially is what would be if the development was open right now, or you know in
the 5 year timeframe.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
John Hagen: So could it change over time? Yeah, I mean depending on development patterns in the city,
yeah. You know it could potentially change but the directional distribution was also based off of an
existing traffic patterns so it isn’t just you know, we don’t just randomly pick what we think is you know
the traffic going to be coming from. We look at existing traffic patterns in the area and then we also look
at future development potential so I don’t know if that answers your question.
Mayor Furlong: Perhaps. I mean as Councilman Laufenburger talked about the development to the north
of this site. To the north of 212 is fairly well developed. To the south along 101 there will continue to be
improvements there. More development within Chanhassen and better access to Chanhassen from
Shakopee along that corridor so I’m curious if that’s why if this is where, once 101 to the south becomes
completely upgraded and completed would we expect 25% of the traffic to come from there or could it be
more. I guess I’m trying to understand is this present day, if it was fully developed currently with the
road structure or when the roads are fully upgraded as planned, this is what we would expect.
John Hagen: Well one thing Mr. Mayor, one thing to keep in mind is that the development, the proposed
development is neighborhood commercial and so there are different travel sheds. You know different,
you know if this was more of a regional then you would have that expectation that it would draw from a
larger area. Most, if not all of the land uses that are in here are you know neighborhood commercial type
land uses. They aren’t generally considered destinations. I mean even the fast food restaurant, we expect
that less than 50%, you know there was a number of 1,500 trips being generated by the fast food. Well
that’s new trips. That’s not new trips. What that is is there is 50, at least 50% of the traffic that’s going to
be coming in and out of the fast food restaurant is already on the existing roadway system and that’s an
average, nationwide of you know what you would expect from a fast food. And so getting back to your
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
question, because of the type of land uses, you know it won’t draw from as large of an area as something
more regional.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Mr. McDonald, other questions?
Councilman McDonald: I think you answered my question but I’m not sure you really got to the heart of
it. Again what I’m trying to get at, it’s not so much that it becomes a destination. It’s, and this is where
it’s maybe more directed towards staff but it’s I believe things have changed over time from when the
Kwik Trip was there plus the bus station plus the development there, that these in fact are drawing from
outside of the neighborhood and even what you’re showing here is that a large part of, and again you’ve
got other businesses so are these numbers just geared towards a McDonalds or are they geared toward this
development as a whole as to what you see happening?
John Hagen: The directional distribution is for the site as a whole.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, for the site as a whole so McDonalds has got a portion of that but not
necessarily those numbers and I guess my question again towards staff and I’m not sure you can answer
this but I’m just wondering has things changed? When Kwik Trip came in there, and again we elected not
to give them the sign off of 212 to draw business in. They more or less become survival based upon the
neighborhood and you know can they sustain it and I’m wondering did that happen or just because word
got out, I mean now it’s been oh at least 4 years since Kwik Trip’s been in there. Has now it begun to
draw people in from outside of the neighborhoods?
Paul Oehme: Well maybe the developer or somebody from Kwik Trip can answer that but I know the
business itself is doing well.
Councilman McDonald: I’d say quite well.
Paul Oehme: It’s doing quite well and I believe you know a lot of that has been generated by the
neighborhood interest in that facility so you know we haven’t had a traffic study just to look at what the
distribution is for traffic just for the Kwik Trip but yeah I’d imagine that a substantial amount of it is
generated locally.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. John, if you could put that drawing back up. Wouldn’t you kind of
describe anything going on Lyman or 101 to be kind of local traffic generation and then the regional draw
would be the 212.
John Hagen: Correct.
Todd Gerhardt: So your local traffic, if you add the percentages up would be 80% of the traffic using this
retail site would be off of Lyman and 101. You have 20% of your traffic, 15 coming from the west. 5%
coming from the east that would be more regional. People coming through needing gas. People coming
through wanting to stop at any of the retail shops. So 20% of the traffic using the retail development
would be outside the neighborhood and then 80% within probably a 5 mile radius.
John Hagen: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilman Laufenburger.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, John the only thing I would say is that I, while I don’t question your
numbers. You’re in this business. I am not. Just in my mind I’m thinking that knowing that Eden Prairie
is municipal liquor and Haskell’s is doing quite well and they’re getting a lot of Eden Prairie traffic. Now
Haskell’s is north of 5. That arbitrary barrier between the north and south, and we know about that
barrier don’t we council members.
Mayor Furlong: We keep getting reminded.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. I would think that the, thinking of the project, that 5% and 25%
that could be coming from that south Eden Prairie, I think that could be a traffic draw. That’s purely
supposition and I expect that the manager of that liquor store would welcome that opportunity but I just
anticipate that that could bring in some of that traffic if the success at Haskell’s is any indication of what
might happen. Thank you for letting me make that comment.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for the applicant.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mayor, I have a question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: And this, actually this might be geared more toward staff regarding site lighting.
Can you tell me, it appears as though the lights in the parking lot are going to be shielded and they can’t
be more than 25 feet tall.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. And there’s an illustrative plan in the packet showing how that works.
Councilwoman Ernst: Right. And there’s supposed to be minimal parking. Do we know how many
poles are going to be in that particular site?
Kate Aanenson: I don’t have that plan in front of, here tonight but we do have a copy of that but if you
look at their illustrative plan. I’m looking for here that shows that if you remember when we put this
project together, one of the reasons why we put the buildings around the perimeter is to create that noise
attenuation, lighting so all that would occur on the inside of the project and not on the perimeter. If you
go back to the original one that we looked at in 2005, it had a completely different look and I think that
was very intentional to try to work through those. Again putting the gas station, which is a 24 hour
operation to the north and that sort of thing where it’s a bit noisier so that was all very intentional. Again
the same thing with the fast food. Putting that on that north side with the direct curvature of the building
to make sure that that provided the best screening for the neighborhood.
Councilwoman Ernst: So can we say for sure then that that’s not going to cause any neighborhood
interference with the lighting? I know that’s putting you on the spot.
Kate Aanenson: It’s not our intent to do that and I think that plan reflects that’s the goal, correct.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? Mr. Appert, anything else you’d like
to share with us this evening?
Jack Appert: No, I don’t think so.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Jack Appert: Any other questions just let me know.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, very good. We may have a few that come up but, so thank you. There was a
public hearing held at the Planning Commission and the City Council’s received those Minutes verbatim
so we know what was said there. I don’t know if there’s anybody that wanted to provide some public
comment here but we’d certainly welcome listening to comments from the public. If you’d like to come
forward, state your name and address for the record please, I’d appreciate it.
P.J. Dehghani: Good evening Mayor and council. My name is P.J. Dehghani. Dehghani. 8940
Reflections Road. It’s the new Lennar development. First of all I wanted to say that you know this is
during spring break. A lot of the neighbors on our email list did shoot out an email saying hey let them
know that more of us would be here. Luckily they’re in the sun. We’re stuck in the cold but there is,
there has been a lot of excitement about this development. As we all moved in a lot of us have moved in
recently. I personally have been in commercial real estate development for the last 10 years so I did my
research on this particular parcel and on the PUD and was very encouraged to see that there was a
restriction on what could be drive thru only to the coffee shop and it actually specifically says 50% coffee
sales so it’s preventing it from being not only a fast food drive thru but a you know Dunkin Donuts or
something like that. It really limited it to what would bring your mind to a Caribou or Starbucks or Dunn
Brothers and then also a drive thru bank. So that was something that was very encouraging and I feel a
lot of us feel for the price of the homes going up in this neighborhood, that was an appropriate use. So
when we hear that there is, and as mentioned restaurants are an approved use but when you see a
restaurant without a drive thru you think of fast casual. You think of you know possibly a Jimmy John’s
or Chipotle or something that has a different stigma to it than a drive thru McDonalds. So that to me is
something really significant. There’s also, you know as you look at the site plan, due to the size of it
there’s a, it doesn’t work here but a detached trash enclosure in the middle of that drive thru seems
extremely out of place and it’s a function of not enough parking on the site that it was put there and it’s
also, you know if you look at where the trash enclosure is on the Kwik Trip, it’s attached to the building.
This is a detached trash enclosure facing 101. The other thing when you think of, you know I was
looking at the website of the City of Chanhassen, it talks about the reasons for amendments to the zoning
and one of them is that it’s in harmony with the existing approved uses and it’s hard to understand how a
former law that says you can’t have drive thru fast food is in harmony with just changing that and saying
you now are allowed to have a fast food restaurant with a drive thru. When you think of a, even if it was
a fast food without a drive thru, you think of the hours of operation. Typically fast food with a drive thru
they shut down at 10:00 p.m. and it’s just the drive thru window open to 2:00 which now implies that
we’re going to have late night traffic, you know 1:00-2:00 a.m. Hopefully the liquor store won’t be open
that late as well. That’s a bad combination but that, it’s hard to understand how that works. There’s
harmony, even though it wasn’t approved fast food and approved drive thru for coffee, you’re just
changing it and yes I understand there’s not precedent because you’d have to come in front of this body
but you’re changing the zoning once. Let’s say it’s 5-6 years from now. There’s a new council and
mayor, you know perhaps they change that a second time. So that’s a concern. It also talks about that it
can’t change the essential character of the locality and I would, and I know a lot of our neighbors and the
folks in the Springfield neighborhood would say that turning off to your homes and seeing a drive thru
McDonalds does change the character as opposed to something that was limited to a drive thru coffee
shop or bank. I think there’s something significant there. It also says that the decision has to be not based
entirely on economics and if it’s not based on economics then I’d venture to say they could just do away
with the drive thru component. We don’t own the land. We understand that development is, there’s a
series of approved uses and I don’t think anyone’s saying don’t do it. We’re just saying don’t change the
rules. Don’t change the feeling of the locality. So I brought up the trash enclosure. The stigma. The
2020 traffic projections, that’s 6 1/2 years away. 2020 sounds like a long ways away. It’s only 6 1/2
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
years away. By the time this is built and if it takes 3 or 4 years for this development to build out, we’re a
couple years away so there are concerns. I would have hoped that the City would have hired their own
traffic engineers. I’ve hired traffic engineers. The results are a lot better when they’re hired by me than
when they’re hired by the City. With all due respect to the professional, I am a civil engineer by
profession. Haven’t practiced in a long while so that’s just another comment. Making sure I haven’t
forgotten anything. I’m sure I have and I’m sure there’s other folks here to talk about it but I would ask
that you consider the precedent being set for future amendments, not just in this development. For a
developer coming in and saying hey, you gave it over there. Why wouldn’t you give it to us? Whether
it’s you know over here. Across the street. Wherever else. And I just ask you to consider the stigma on
that corner for us. My son goes to Primrose. You know that traffic pattern out there. People aren’t going
to pull off to go to a walk in fast food if it was a Subway or something else. They are going to pull over
at 8:00 a.m. to grab you know a sandwich or whatever and the late night traffic is a huge concern. I won’t
take up all your time. I appreciate you hearing our comments.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Ms. Aanenson, quick comments. One of the comments that the
gentleman just made was about the trash enclosure. Do you want to comment about it’s placement and
location.
th
Kate Aanenson: Sure. That’s pretty similar to what we have up at the Taco Bell up on West 78 Street.
th
It’s actually right up against West 78 Street. It’s integrated into the sign there. It does meet ordinance.
It’s landscaped around it. We do have other sites that are somewhat similar to that. It’s not the first time
we’ve done one like that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Yes, Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Let’s talk a little bit about the evening hours. What are the evening hours for
the Kwik Trip, do you know?
Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure if they’re open 24.
Mayor Furlong: If you could come up.
Kate Aanenson: They’re open 24 hours.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: 24 hours a day?
Mayor Furlong: Is that correct Mr. Appert?
Jack Appert: Yeah. Yes.
Mayor Furlong: 24 hours a day, okay.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Thank you. Ms. Aanenson, any other comments with regard to the questions
about harmony of usage and whether or not…
Kate Aanenson: Yeah I’ll go back to, I think the Planning Commission really studied the issue and again
went back to look at, you can get coffee at McDonalds and breakfast foods too so they felt you know
again looking at the stacking and the timing of what takes longer to go through, whether it was coffee and
they gave some, what they believe was not maybe empirical but maybe more antidotal type information
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about how long it would take to go through and they felt actually the convenience food at McDonalds
might be faster to go through as far as stacking but they felt that it could come through and I’m not sure
that there’s maybe if this was a different type of drive thru that there would be different feelings but again
we don’t look at that type of and that’s what the Planning Commission spent some time on. If it wasn’t a
McDonalds, if it was some other type of drive thru, would the feelings be different and that’s kind of what
they came down to is they didn’t want to get into that decision making. They wanted to put fast food
coverage on there and not call out the McDonalds and said if this was a drive thru sandwich shop would
we have a different feeling and that’s kind of how they looked at it. Not the branding of that particular
type. They felt like the function still as the drive thru and that’s what they really zeroed in on was that
type of thing and we had that discussion before. I mean if you look at even, if you look Culver’s which
has a drive thru, and looked at some times when you could get breakfast food at a coffee shop, you know
sometimes those sort of things so they spent a lot of time talking about that issue and felt like all things,
that they could support that amendment based on that criteria and the architectural look and the way it’s
faced against a business that’s open 24 hours and those sort of things so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Follow up questions?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah. Kate, can you talk a little bit more about how many cars this turn, or
this access for the drive thru, how many cars would be in there?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah the queuing is for a double lane coming through to the menu board so I believe it’s
about 6 that would come through there.
Councilman Laufenburger: So 6 cars total from wherever they pick up their food all the way back.
Kate Aanenson: From the menu board yeah coming around and picking up their food. And again we do
go look at, observed other similar type ones in this community and others to see how they function at
peak hours to make sure we were comfortable with how this would circulate and work in the community.
Councilman Laufenburger: Please, Mr. Appert.
Jack Appert: This is, as far as the stacking goes it’s 6 and 6 at the double and then it’s, I believe it’s 14
from all the way up to the pick up.
Councilman Laufenburger: So in the double area where the menu boards are, 6 cars on both sides?
Jack Appert: I’m sorry, it’s 3 and 3.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay 3 and 3 and then from there.
Jack Appert: And then it’s another 8 or so to get, that you can fit in the actual waiting area after you order
your food but the idea is and why they do this double is that never even gets full. I think at their most
busy location they need like 12 to make it work and this one has more than enough for that.
Councilman Laufenburger: I’m thinking of, I’m trying to picture the McDonalds that currently exists on
Dakota Lane, or on Highway 5. Okay. Do you have any idea on how many cars between the double
menu board and where you pick up your food or where you pay for it?
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Jack Appert: I do not.
Kate Aanenson: No…
Councilman Laufenburger: Well then I won’t tell you what my experience is. What Kate?
Kate Aanenson: No, I know they did put a secondary window in there too because they couldn’t do the
double lanes at that location so.
Councilman Laufenburger: Oh here on Highway 5.
Kate Aanenson: Correct, yeah so it’s more linear. They have two lines going but it’s two windows. I
don’t think it’s the double.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Appert, before you leave then. With regard to the number of cars that are allowed to
be stacked in this design, is it anticipated that there’ll be cars extending back out into the thru lanes in the
parking area?
Jack Appert: No, that was actually something that we worked through quite a bit with Joe when he was
here and Sharmeen as well that, that’s why they should never get back into that drive aisle and that was, it
had been designed for that.
Kate Aanenson: That was a driving point that we spent a lot of time on and that’s where we went, Joe
and Sharmeen actually went and, former city engineer and planning staff went and actually observed
other ones to make sure we felt comfortable that there wasn’t stacking into the traffic area.
Jack Appert: They put us through the wringer on that.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. I’m just going to say I’m glad that they did, regardless of whether we go
forward with this or not, that is something that we’ve observed that is just not acceptable.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, there was a lot of consternation on that. Yeah.
Councilman McDonald: Well then that brings up a question I’ve got. You’re talking about the one on
Highway 5 and it’s controlled a lot by signage. Are you going to put one way in, you know this is the
way in up there at the northern entrance? That’s the way you come in so that you go in and there’s a line
so that we don’t have people trying to cut in and everything.
Jack Appert: Yeah, they’ll have the directionals, yep. Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. We’re still in the public comment period. Appreciate that if there’s
others that would like to provide public comment this evening.
Scott Paulson: My name is Scott Paulson and I live in the Springfield neighborhood and I sent everyone a
copy of a petition that I believe you all received it. Okay. I just have a few comments. P.J. made some
really great points and I think he just made the point for me on the drive thru. The fact that there’s 6 that
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can queue and then 8 after for a total of 14 or 12 and that the level of service, they’ll get them through
quick enough as opposed to a coffee shop. Well that is intuitive to realize that, that means a lot of traffic
through there and that’s the biggest issue. I mean so they can get people through there faster and the
people aren’t going to be out in the aisle and the time waiting for their McDonalds breakfast is quicker
than a cut of coffee, which is that just goes to show you that people are going to be spinning through
there. There’s going to be a lot of people through there and the peak times are the exact peak times for
the daycare as well so it’s going to be a cluster there. It’s going to be lots of people there and none of this
screams neighborhood friendly to me and there was a reason that 8 years ago or 2008 or 2006 that you put
in there no fast food drive thru and I know during the Planning Commission meeting they said times have
changed. The only thing that’s changed is we now have an anchor tenant that’s been brought forward.
Nothing else has changed. If you believe the economy, we’re supposedly coming on an up tick now and
maybe some other business that is more neighborhood friendly will be looking to locate there. Right now
the neighbors don’t want McDonalds. I can tell you that right now and the study about coming off of the
highway, does that mean they’re not going to put a sign there that says at this exit McDonalds. I know
there’s not going to be a pillar sign you know because that’s not allowed but there is going to be one that
says McDonalds this exit and it will be the only one on that stretch of the road for miles. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Paulson.
Jeffery Hahn: Mr. Mayor, members of the council, thank you for this time. Jeffery Hahn, 62
Summerfield in the Springfield neighborhood. I have family that lives out west of here in the Carver,
Norwood area, Waconia and if you drive that stretch you would know that there is no fast food off of 212.
The first fast food restaurant directly off of 212 is in downtown Norwood-Young America so as you come
east from those western cities this would be the first restaurant, fast food restaurant directly off the
highway so just cut to the chase, this will be a truck stop. That’s what this is going to be. Maybe their
study says 15% today but I drive to work every morning. Traffic backs up from 494 all the way to 101.
Oh look, there’s a new McDonalds. Why not stop and get some coffee instead of sitting in this traffic.
Why don’t we cut and head north, cut through. Go over 5. That’s how I do it. There’s fast food less than
2 miles away in downtown Chan. Let’s keep the traffic there. I mean that’s what downtown areas are
for. There’s multiple choices you know just a couple miles away from this site. Also the Thai restaurant,
Axel’s and BK, all of those are located south of neighborhoods. Not to the, having the facility to the
northwest where the prevailing winds will then blow the scent towards us. The neighborhoods on Burger
King, Burger King is just north of 5. All of the neighborhoods are north of that Burger King. Same with
the Thai restaurant. Same with the other facilities that are in downtown Chanhassen. We will be directly
in the prevailing wind of the stench that’s going to be coming from that McDonalds. It’s only 800 feet
and like I stated in the other meeting, you know property values have been degrading and turning off a
McDonalds to come see my house, or you know turning off 212 and seeing a nice fast food restaurant,
that’s the last thing I want as a homeowner. When we bought you know 5 years ago that was, we read the
PUD. I mean my mom’s a real estate agent here in Chan. Just for fun she signed our petition and one of
the things she did is she looked at quick study. What are the houses just south of McDonalds go for
compared to other similar homes in Chanhassen? I’ll tell you, less. It’s not going to help me. Thank
you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Hahn.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor, could I ask a question?
Mayor Furlong: Yes, Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: This was something I was going to bring up earlier but then I think the mayor
or someone brought it up because I think it probably is a real fear for the neighbors, and I would feel the
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same way about having a restaurant venting into the air and going outside enjoying my deck and smelling
French fries so can we just discuss that. I know you said that you had complaints with Burger King and
they have upgraded their ventilation system so Kate can we talk a little bit about what you perceive will
happen with this? Or maybe the developer can, because it really is a concern and I understand that.
Jack Appert: That was something that we looked into as well and what it is, in their build-out package
it’s what called a high efficiency hood and I don’t expect anybody that’s already opposing this to have
any faith in that but that’s basically how they addressed the Burger King as well and Sharmeen went there
and she said you know she didn’t smell anything and these high efficiency hoods, what they do and I
can’t speak to exactly how they work but basically any grease and the associated odors get trapped in the
hood and just the clean air ends up going out through the exhaust and again it might not put too many
people’s minds at ease but that’s how they’re intended to work. That’s how they do work. That’s what
they did to address the Burger King and that’s how this one will be built in the first place so.
Councilman Laufenburger: Jack, are those high efficiency hoods in place in other McDonalds in and
around the area, do you know?
Jack Appert: The newer ones they probably, they are. I know it’s, these small town retail concepts
essentially that’s how they’re designed so I can’t speak for them I guess on all of them but they should be.
Councilman McDonald: Well if I could, you know a better example, you talk about being down wind, the
McDonalds on 5, those homes are down wind. They’re south of that. Do we get complaints about that
one? I have never heard of a complaint about that McDonalds. I’ve only heard about the Burger King
and that was in the beginning when it was first put in because there were some bad feelings about that but
I’ve never heard any complaints about the McDonalds. Can somebody speak to that?
Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson.
Kate Aanenson: If I may, I think the Planning Commission struggled with this issue because I think we
have to separate, there can be other restaurants in there so I think we have to separate smell issues from
visceral feelings about this user so I think if there’s a restaurant in here we have, through our experience
of other restaurants in the city worked to mitigate those issues. So whether it’s this convenience, fast food
restaurant or any other restaurant that could go in here, which there could be other ones without a drive
thru that would have some of the same issues. Trash enclosures. Open later. Those sort of things so we
are prepared to address those sort of issues so again, kind of have to separate some of those things. Again
if this was a different type of drive thru, a sandwich shop or something like that, maybe some of those
same odors might not be, or a pizza place or that sort of thing, those things go with, across all types of
restaurants and so we are prepared to manage those and we do have ordinances in place to manage those
and that would include hours of operation. Whether there’s alcohol involved you know with a restaurant
or something, those are all sort of things that we would deal with on a policy basis and building code
basis and property management so.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Others that would provide some public comment. Good evening.
Christine Pederson: Thank you. Christine Pederson, 385 Chesterfield Lane in the Reflections
neighborhood. I moved here last June from Oregon and when I was searching for my home I looked
everywhere. I wasn’t limited to Chanhassen but I was so impressed by this city. By it’s dedication to
green space. We have public transportation. We have fantastic school district. We have lakes. We have
wetlands. And now we come to a McDonalds in my neighborhood. My comment is, is more to the fact
of what is Chanhassen’s vision. Do we have a vision of where we’re heading because right now we have
one McDonalds. We have a Culvers. We have a Taco Bell. We have, we’re going to look like any other
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suburb. I mean what is our vision for growth? And as far as the comment on smell, I would much rather
smell the roasting of coffee beans than the grease coming out of a vent. I mean I do think there is a
significant smell issue. I do not believe that we’re not setting a precedent with all due respect to the city
attorney. I do think we are setting a precedent and I really would love it if you could reconsider because I
do think my house will not appreciate. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you.
John Aho: Good evening Mr. Mayor and council.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
John Aho: My name is John Aho at 625 Summerfield Drive in the Springfield development.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, could you pronounce your last name or spell it?
John Aho: John Aho, A-h-o.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
John Aho: And I just wanted to briefly summarize my comments in the petition just to make sure they’re
heard and bring out a couple other points that I heard tonight. So we moved here 6 months ago from
southwest Minneapolis and we have 3 kids age 4 to 7 so I’m not sure if they made the traffic study for 20
years out but we moved here for the high quality homes, education, neighborhoods and which we’re
meeting all of our neighbors and it is a wonderful place to live. Our home has direct line of sight to the
development and for a quality development I have no objection. A walkable community based retail
development is desirable for us personally. It’s something that we left out on when we left southwest
Minneapolis. Although I strongly protest the suggested variance to allow for a drive thru for a restaurant.
This was clearly not the intent of the original language, which I suspect was there to restrict the same
issues that are here tonight. How can residents be confidence that their voice will be, continue to matter
throughout the development phase if these minor adjustments are pushed through without consent. The
original deal was very specific to avoid a fast food chain which would quickly change a dynamic of our
neighborhood. Allowing this variance would guarantee a fast food is here to stay. Not only in our back
yards but in the city for years to come. It appears that roughly a third of the restaurants in Chanhassen are
the fast food variety, and I guess it goes to your point of strategy for this city going forward. You know
let’s try to help attract the type of restaurant that would draw the community together. That will compete
with great choices in our neighboring towns and to continue to make Chanhassen a destination of choice
not, and place of convenience. Couple other points. I also question kind of a McDonalds or fast food
intent for a long term approach here with signage. With hours of operation just because there might be
some limitations today what we do with that. Doesn’t mean that those can’t change 20 years into a lease.
As another non-fast food business wouldn’t have those same kind of potential outreach. And I recall from
the Planning Commission meeting that there was a 5% increase in traffic would be the impact between a
coffee shop and a fast food restaurant and I also heard tonight that a fast food roughly draws 50% of their
cars or traffic from local and 50% of cars that wouldn’t have been there otherwise. To me that sounds
like a huge variance between what a coffee shop or another local restaurant would have versus a fast food
McDonalds with those kind of ratios. And lastly you know if as a council, with all due respect, if you are
voting yes for this tonight I would just like to understand why the push for a double lane variance for a
fast food restaurant. You know really, why the push? There are big decisions to make for the city and I
think that we, we being the people that are here tonight who signed the petition and live in our association
communities are obliged to understand your rationale for that as there are a lot of big decisions to come
for the city so thanks for your time.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else that would like to provide public comment? No? Alright,
thank you. Appreciate all your comments and we do appreciate and I know we’ve also read the emails
that we’ve received and Mr. Paulson said he sent over the petition. I appreciate that too and read through
the comments that were included on that as well so, any follow up questions? If not, or are there any
questions at this point? Clarifying questions. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Can I go back to the exhaust and the screening again?
Mayor Furlong: Sure.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’ve been reading the conditions, is it necessary to put something in the
conditions that they will you know maintain air quality?
Kate Aanenson: You can add it as a condition. It’s in our standard nuisance section of the City Code that
they would be bound by to follow so it’s adopted. I’ll ask the city attorney if he feels like it’s.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well since we were able to work with the other fast food drive thru and they
complied, maybe it’s not an issue but I was just wondering if that was something we needed to clarify.
Roger Knutson: You certainly can add something but I think our nuisance ordinance takes care of it.
Takes care of the issue.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yes, Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Aho made reference to some percentages. Mr. Hagen, would you mind
coming back up there please just for a second and bring that 15, 20, 35, 80 chart with you.
Mayor Furlong: And Mr. Laufenburger, while he’s coming up, could you clarify the question Mr. Aho
raised? I think I remember it but for.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, I think Mr. Aho said that 50% of the traffic will come from the
neighborhood and 50% of the traffic will come from something that is not there. I don’t want to mis-
state.
John Aho: …fast food in general nationwide, 50% comes from local. 50% comes from…
Councilman Laufenburger: Could you restate that Mr. Hagen? Do you understand what I’m looking for?
John Hagen: Yes, yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Great, because.
John Hagen: Mr. Mayor, excuse me again. Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Yes, these statistics that
I had mentioned earlier is the nationwide average for a fast food restaurant is approximately 50% of the
traffic to and from a fast food restaurant is considered past by trips which means it’s traffic already on the
roadway. The adjacent roadway system.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
John Hagen: So the 50% didn’t specifically identify where they’re coming from. You know are they
coming from local or from far away? It’s 50% already on the existing roadway system. The other 50%
would be considered new trips.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
John Hagen: Now on this site, since it is a multi-use site, it has a number of different uses, there’s an
additional what we call multi-purpose trips which means someone coming to the Kwik Trip might also
then go to the liquor store or the fast food restaurant or any other tenant that might be in here.
Councilman Laufenburger: But that would be included in the 50% of the people that are already there, is
that correct?
John Hagen: That’s in addition.
Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, in addition to that, okay.
John Hagen: So and, it should be pointed out, that 5% that we use was rather low. We wanted to be
conservative because you know depending on the types of uses that actually go in there, that 5% can go
up to you know 10 to 15 or more, you know depending on if it’s a good mix of uses, then people make it
a multi-purpose trip. They’ll go to the convenience store. They’ll go to the bank to do their banking and
they might stop at a sandwich shop if there’s going to be one in, you know somewhere else in the
development. Or likewise go to the daycare and then you know get some gas you know so that’s, that 5%
that we assumed is actually a conservative, and by conservative I mean it’s conservatively low.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, this document that you’re showing us right now, I think your words
were if the project was in place today, this is the roads from which visits to the site would generate. 20%
of them would come off of 212 and 80% of them would come from the 4 main roads that lead to that
corner of Lyman and 101. Is that stating that correctly?
John Hagen: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. While you’re up here I want to ask you a question that was spoken to
by Mr. Hahn I believe. What impediments, if any exist at this site that would prevent it from becoming a
truck stop?
John Hagen: Well other than.
Councilman Laufenburger: Let me phrase it differently. What aspects of this site would encourage it to
be a truck stop?
John Hagen: Well councilmember, it would be difficult for me to say exactly you know whether or not a
truck would actually.
Kathy Anderson: I might speak. I’m Kathy Anderson with Architectural Consortium. From a planning
standpoint when you look at the site plan the nature of the way the buildings are oriented and the access
through the site is really conducive for large maneuvering of trucks. In fact we’re down to very close
radiuses, keeping this a compact, small neighborhood center for even getting the deliveries for the retail
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users and so this really typically a truck stop type of site would be a large regional area with you know
large parking lots that they could pull in and easily maneuver and have room without looking like, you
know look very proportionately out of shape to see that type of thing here.
Councilman Laufenburger: Do we know if any 18 wheel rigs pull into Kwik Trip?
Kathy Anderson: I don’t.
John Hahn: They do and what they do is they just don’t pull into Kwik Trip. They stop in the main
thoroughfare blocking traffic and then walking to Kwik Trip and they do it throughout all hours of the
day, but let me re-phrase my statement. Maybe not…
Councilman Laufenburger: Just a second Mr. Hahn.
Mayor Furlong: Wait, wait a second.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just a second. It may be necessary for you to come to the microphone.
Mayor Furlong: I want to give her an opportunity.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, go ahead.
Mayor Furlong: If there’s anything else you wanted to say.
Kathy Anderson: No, I didn’t.
Mayor Furlong: Alright.
Kathy Anderson: But I do think you know just in general a neighborhood center, this particularly urban
more setting as far as placements of the building, it would be, I would not see that kind of activity.
Councilman Laufenburger: It seems to me the biggest deterrent to trucks coming into this area would be
the difficulty with which they would have turning around and maneuvering I would think.
Kathy Anderson: Right.
Councilman Laufenburger: Now I don’t want to minimize the fact that Mr. Hahn or others may witness
that some 18 wheelers are there for delivery or something like that but I don’t think that would be a
predominant traffic. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Thank you. Any other clarifying questions? Otherwise how about discussion
and comments from members of the council. Councilman Laufenburger, thoughts.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I want to quote Mr. Paulson. I think he’s the one.
The neighbors don’t want McDonalds and while I appreciate that that may be a sentiment of the majority
of the neighbors, to me it sounds an awful lot like the words that I heard about 15 months ago that we
don’t want a Walmart. Now having said that let me back up a little bit. First of all it’s extremely valuable
for us as city leaders to get citizen input and feedback and for those that spoke today or at the Planning
Commission or if you wrote an email or if you called me or if I saw you on the street, I appreciate the
boldness and the level of perhaps discomfort that you might have exhibited in order to make that
statement. I thank you very much for doing that. And I heard from both people who are opposed to this
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
as well as those who were in favor of it so I want to thank all of those. I think your input absolutely helps
me understand that you care about this city and that is true whether we’re talking about a restaurant with a
drive thru, a large retail operation, a multi-family residential operation or whatever it might be. The fact
that the citizens speak to what they care about is important because it’s important that we the city leaders
hear about that. Now I have my views about the businesses that choose to open in Chanhassen and
generally I vote my approval or disapproval with my feet and my credit card. But as an elected city
official I can’t pick winners and losers. If I feel that a proposal is in concert with plans and strategies,
then it gets my nod. I can’t be an impediment simple because I may not like the logo or the business or
have some bad experience with that particular business. So though most of the communication that I’ve
had regarding this is about quote McDonald’s, just as it was about Walmart 15 months ago, in my view
it’s about the design, the proposal and not the sign on the door. So Mr. Mayor I can and I will support the
proposal because I believe the development supports the community and I believe that it will not detract
nor depreciate property values. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments? Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, taking off on what Councilman Laufenburger just said. You know we
are given direction that the City’s discretion in approving or denying the site plan is limited to whether or
not the proposed project complies with the zoning ordinance requirements. I’ve heard a lot of
terminology thrown out today about stigma. About harmony in neighborhoods and about branding and I
think the Planning Commission did an excellent job of trying to stay away from the branding and stick to
basically the facts and the facts were that it was approved for a drive thru coffee shop so there was a drive
thru that was going to be there to start with. The tenant changed and that happens. 5 years have gone by
and a new tenant came in and I think that my role as a council member is to make sure that I don’t
prohibit business but that I encourage it and whether or not I think that McDonalds is suitable for my
family to go eat at every night or if I think that it will bring in the wrong type of people, that’s my
personal opinion but this is my council opinion and I feel that the Planning Commission and staff and
Kraus-Anderson put their heads together and came up with a pretty good development. You know I
actually think that it’s going to be really hard to even know that McDonalds is there and so I want to
commend you for all your work you have done. I know that our staff and our council and our Planning
Commission, we have pretty high standards most of the time and I think that’s why we have the city that
we live in and so I will continue to work that way and not necessarily go by who’s coming in but what’s
coming in and so I too will be approving this.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments? Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well it seems to me, well first off I want to thank all the residents for coming in. I
want to really kind of follow up on what Councilman Laufenburger said. It does take courage to come in
and talk and it takes time and I really appreciate your efforts in hearing your opinions and all the emails
that we received on this project. It seems to me after hearing all the comments and the emails that the
biggest concern that I heard were the traffic concerns and based on what I’m hearing from the developer
and our city engineer, those traffic concerns have been addressed. I do still have some concerns about the
one intersection that I mentioned but it sounds like they’re going to monitor that and see how that goes
and put solutions in place to make sure that those are addressed. The smell, that sounds like we already
have that in our ordinance so that’s actually already there to be addressed. You know these are always
hard ones because I hear what you’re saying and I really want to say that I’m hearing what your voice is.
What your comments are but I really have to say that in terms of the issues that have been raised and what
has been addressed, I can’t, I don’t know of anything that hasn’t been addressed and so with that I would
support this development as well.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Mr. McDonald. Thoughts, comments.
34
Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Councilman McDonald: Well I’ll keep my comments kind of short. Mr. Laufenburger I think really
addressed the core issue as a council person but there’s one element that came up at the Planning
Commission and it’s been brought up a couple times about how this is all changing. I was on the
Planning Commission when this first came through. All of you are new faces to all of this but this issue
was addressed in 2005. What happened back then was that we were brought, this was pretty much a done
deal. The coffee shop was going in. The Haskell’s was going in. They had people lined up for all of
these buildings and it was pretty much, this is what we want. The issue was brought up then about the
drive thru because we didn’t do that many of them in this city and there was a lot of hesitation about
doing that but again it was a coffee shop but we went into it with our eyes open in the fact that well if you
allow a drive thru, that’s not to say it couldn’t change. However this seems to be a pretty good deal.
Unfortunately the economy got in the way and suddenly there was no commercial buildings going on and
this site has sat vacant for a number of years. The Haskell’s went someplace else and that was very
controversial because that was going to be a liquor store with a food service on the outside and drinks and
that was going to be open until 10:00-11:00 at night. We were going to do some things there to try to
mitigate as much as possible but the site would allow that. There were some other things, concerns about
the Kwik Trip. Again it was the thing about traffic and they were bringing stuff in and it was pointed out
then that on 212 we already knew that there was nothing between Norwood-Young America and prairie
and the city looked upon this as an advantage to the city because this would bring people in. A city does
not survive folks if people pass through and go on down the road. You have to get people to come into
your city. So this is part of development. We’re going to do some other things at some other
intersections and again that’s one of the things we look at is, how do we keep a city vibrant. People have
brought up the whole thing about we’re one of the 10 best cities. Yes we are. Everyone one of those
cities folks has got a Walmart and a McDonalds and an in and out burger chain and they’ve got all this.
That’s part of the mix that a city needs to be viable and to succeed or you become like north Minneapolis
where a couple of you came from where there’s nothing. No one wants to be there and everyone wants to
move out of there so what we’re trying to do again, we make these decisions based upon plans that have
been put in place. This goes back a number of years. It was thought through in great length back at that
point. There were public hearings back then. We went through everything to try to make sure that we
met the plans that were in place for our Comprehensive Plan and what we wanted to do to develop the
site. It met the criteria then. What got in the way was the economy crashed and as with everything else
tenants go away. New tenants come in but this was in the plans back in the beginning. This really is
nothing new, it’s just the problem is we’ve had almost 7 years between the original discussions and
what’s happened now so I mean based upon that we’re really not looking at breaking any new ground
here. This is something that we’ve tried to do for a long time and as Mr. Laufenburger said, when we
make these decisions I really don’t make it because of who it is. The only exception of that would be
yeah, a nightclub or something such as that but that’s not what this is. This is a legitimate business that
fits the criteria of what we would want within this community. We can’t pick and choose businesses. I’m
sorry. I can’t say who’s going to come and who’s going to go. It’s when someone wants to come in and
put up the money. Take a chance on making the business successful, we have to allow it as long as it
meets our code, our plans and our ordinances, and this does so I really feel that you know I voted for it
back in 2005 after going through all this. Listening to the public comment at that point and I really see
nothing’s changed today and I’d vote for it again today so I can support what’s being proposed.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. I appreciate everyone’s comments. I think Councilwoman Ernst, if
I’m not mistaken said these are not easy but they are, when it gets up to this level it really gets down to
one or two key issues. One of the advantages of the public process that we have neighborhood meetings,
the developer working with staff, going through the Planning Commission and everything is we can
address a lot of the issues and narrow it down and the issue that keeps coming up here, and we heard it
this evening with the public comments and very often was it’s a McDonalds. That seems to be the
lightning rod here with many people. There are some that I talked to or shared emails with that sent to me
35
Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
that started out and I asked them to clarify their reasons for objecting to this. A few of them came back
and said you know, if it was another restaurant with a drive thru that’d be fine. Others said they didn’t
want any and so you know different people have different opinions but what seems to be a lot of the
discussion is, is who the business is as opposed to what the business is. And as you’ve heard this
evening one of the challenges, and I think objectives and people ask about our visions. Visions that we
have as a council is developing and promoting solid development. Economic development. Commercial
property development. Residential property development. Finding a way, as much as possible to have all
the interests balanced and that’s not always possible but I think over the years we’ve had some really
good people in our planning department and our city staff. Planning Commission and others and overall I
think we’ve made some pretty good decisions collectively as a community and that’s what’s important to
try to keep looking ahead at what do we want our community to look like. What do we want our city to
look like? When I look at some of these, and it’s hard to see with the overhead but when I look at the
pictures of these buildings, the faces of these buildings, but for the name where it says McDonalds and a
little yellow line, you can’t, I can’t tell. That’s not a typical fast food restaurant. That’s a nice looking
building that will compliment the area. It will compliment and build off the Kwik Trip. In fact it has
more architecture features I think than the Kwik Trip does and so it will be complimentary to the area.
People talked about harmony and such like that, I think this building fits very well. I think it’s a very
good looking building and I would credit the architect and others involved with doing that. That’s part of
what we looked at when this development was coming through with that PUD process. It’s my
estimation that this level of design is greater than what’s just the basic design included in our ordinances
so the benefit that the city and the neighbors and others receive from going through this process is better
buildings. Better looking buildings and I think that’s when we talk about vision for the city and what
we’ve succeeded at in the past and what we keep wanting to move forward. It’s not saying who’s going
to be the tenant in each of these buildings. That’s for the marketplace to decide but let’s build a nice city.
Let’s promote the highest quality commercial and residential development that we can have in our city.
I’ve talked to developers before coming in and when we’re looking at and continuing to demand higher
architectural quality, I say you know I want this proposal to be on your next marketing brochure. And in
fact I’d really like it not to be on your marketing brochure because then people would expect that from
you the second time but those are some of the factors that we look at. We don’t want to be, and I would
argue I don’t want this council or state government or federal government, county commissioners to be
picking and choosing businesses because someday they may not pick my business as being one and that’s
key to this. What we need to be looking for are good, solid developments that meet or exceed
expectations from a variety standpoint. Yes, we have to look at the details of traffic. We have to look at
the details and balance concerns about interaction between different types of property uses. Residential
property versus commercial. Neighborhood commercial versus more regional draw commercial and I
think we’re achieving that here. Is it perfect in everybody’s mind? Perhaps not. I know the tenant here
that is being proposed is causing angst. I give the Planning Commission members credit for pointing out
that the developer is being up front. There’s no bait and switch being proposed here. If they thought that
this would cause some problems and they came in with a different type of user or intended user, we’d still
be looking at is it an appropriate use knowing that other businesses could go in there and that’s what I
think we’ve been doing and so I give credit to everybody. Again I don’t think this is going to please
people the way the council’s going tonight, everybody but I would hope you understand the reasons why
and that is we don’t want to be picking the businesses. Mr. Laufenburger talked about Walmart before
and many of you heard about that when that was going on. A lot of the people were against that proposal
not because it was too big for the site. The traffic problems were there. They were trying to get around
our ordinance through the PUD process in my opinion but you know it didn’t fit for a variety of reasons
but they didn’t want it because it was Walmart and that’s not something, that’s not an area that we should
be stepping into because that will cause and has I think in some areas caused problems for governments
when they start picking and choosing so with that I certainly appreciate everyone’s involvement in this
and I am, would like to move this forward. I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of this development
occur within the timeframe that’s been created. I know that from comments I’ve heard, the Kwik Trip
36
Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
that’s already there, the Primrose that’s already there has been a great asset to our part of the city in this
area and I would expect the other tenants in this area and this development to do the same over the long
term and so I will also support it for the reasons stated. With that, if there are no other comments, would
somebody like to make a motion. Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Sure. Kate, could you put the motion up please.
Councilman McDonald: You having problems?
Mayor Furlong: Is the one in the packet still correct?
Councilman Laufenburger: Is this packet?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: It’s up there.
Kate Aanenson: …one in the packet’s correct. What you’re missing on there is the adoption of, excuse
me, would be approving of the summary ordinance. That was added.
Councilman McDonald: It’s all here.
Kate Aanenson: Is it? Then that’s the correct one then.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: I move that the Chanhassen City Council approve a PUD amendment to the
existing standards, the site plan amendment for the construction of a one-story multi-tenant building and
adoption of the Findings of Fact and Recommendation.
Roger Knutson: And the summary ordinance.
Kate Aanenson: And the summary ordinance.
Councilman Laufenburger: And the summary ordinance.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Further discussion?
If not we’ll proceed with the vote.
Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the Chanhassen City
approve the Planned Unit Development amendment in the attached ordinance for
Council
Chanhassen Gateway allowing fast food restaurants with a drive thru window
(amendments are shown in bold and strike thru), and including the attached Findings of
Fact, Recommendation and Summary Ordinance for Publication Purposes:
CHANHASSEN GATEWAY
37
Chanhassen City Council — March 25, 2013
PUD DEVELOPMENT DESIGN STANDARDS
a. Intent
The purpose of this zone is to create a MIXED USE PUD including a Neighborhood
Commercial, Office and Residential. The use of the PUD zone is to allow for more
flexible design standards while creating a higher quality and more sensitive development.
Each structure proposed for development shall proceed through site plan review based on
the development standards outlined below. The Neighborhood Business District
regulations shall apply to Lots 1 -3, Block 1 and Outlot A, Crossroads of Chanhassen,
except as modified by this ordinance. The R -16 District regulations shall apply to Outlot
C, except as modified by this ordinance. Exhibit A, as revised herein to reflect the
changes to the commercial portion, reflects the site layout and buildings as referenced
herein.
4A
•
pi,
d e) - // ! ■ nun, OH IIR'1 I++D `ice Y
•
/ / /�. VIII +1111 IIIIII1D ; 4B
1111114011 _1 L
4C
C S A H NO. 18 (LYMAN BOI_ LVAHU)
b. Permitted Uses
• The permitted uses in this zone should be limited to appropriate commercial and
service uses consistent with meeting the daily needs of the neighborhood. The uses
shall be limited to those as defined herein. If there is a question as to whether or not a
use meets the definition, the Community Development Director shall make that
38
Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
interpretation. The type of uses to be provided on these lots shall be low-intensity
neighborhood-oriented retail and service establishments to meet daily needs of
residents. Commercial and office uses shall be limited to the area located south of
Highway 212. Residential uses shall be located north of Highway 212 and along the
western portion of the southern half.
. Fast
Small to medium-sized restaurant not-to-exceed 8,000 square feet per building
food restaurants with a drive thru are limited along the north end of Building
4B. It must be part of and attached to the multi-use building.
(no drive-thru
windows except drive-thru windows are allowed for tenants whose primary use is the
sale of coffee. The drive-thru lane shall be screened and the exterior wall of the
drive-thru shall contain the same level of architectural detail as any other elevation
visible by the public.
Banks with a drive-in service window
Office
Day care
Neighborhood scale commercial up to 8,000 square feet per tenant with the
exception of building 4C. A tenant may occupy up to 10,000 square feet of said
building and building 4G for a daycare to occupy 12,000 square feet. No individual
service component of a retail building shall occupy more than 8,000 square feet of a
building.
Convenience store with or without gas pumps and car wash.
Specialty retail (Book Store, Jewelry, Sporting Goods Sale/Rental, Retail Sales,
Retail Shops, Apparel Sales, etc.)
Personal Services (an establishment or place of business primarily engaged in
providing individual services generally related to personal needs, such as a Tailor
Shop, Shoe Repair, Self-Service Laundry, Laundry Pick-up Station, Dry Cleaning,
Dance Studios, etc).
Residential High Density (8-16 units per net acre). The total number of units for
the entire site may not exceed 150 units.
c. Building Area
Commercial/Office – Not to exceed 75,000 square feet for the entire
development
Maximum Commercial/Office lot usage is a Floor Area Ratio of 0.3
Maximum office/commercial building area per tenant may not exceed 8,000
square feet
Maximum residential units may not exceed 150 units.
d. Prohibited Ancillary Uses
fast food restaurants
Drive-thru Windows except banks, coffee shops, or
pharmacies.
39
Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
Outdoor storage and display of merchandise such as propane, salt, window washer
fluid, etc. except on the sidewalk surrounding the convenience store 4A. The outdoor
display of merchandise shall not impede nor interfere with pedestrian traffic.
e. Setbacks
The PUD ordinance requires setbacks from roadways and exterior property lines. The
following table displays those setbacks.
Building/Parking
Boundary
Setbacks (feet)
Lyman Boulevard 20/20
Highway 101 North of Highway 312 212 50/50
Highway 101 South of Highway 312 212 20/20
Highway 312 212 50/50
Northerly Project Property Line 50/20
Westerly Project Property Line 50/20
Internal Project property lines 0/0
Internal Right-of-Way (Crossroads Boulevard) 20/20
Hard Surface Coverage-Residential 50 %
Commercial and Office Hard Surface Coverage 70 %
Maximum Commercial (Retail) Building/Structure Height 1 story
Maximum Office Building/Structure Height 2 stories
35 or 3 stories,
Maximum Residential Building/Structure Height
whichever is less
f. Non-Residential Building Materials and Design
There shall not be underdeveloped backsides of buildings. All elevations shall receive
nearly equal treatment and visual qualities. Buildings and site design shall comply with
design standards outlined in Article XXIII. General Supplemental Regulations, Division
7 of the Zoning Ordinance.
g. Residential Standards
Buildings and site design shall comply with design standards outlined in Article XXIII.
General Supplemental Regulations, Division 9 of the Zoning Ordinance.
1.All units shall have access onto an interior private street.
2.A design palette shall be approved for the entire project. The palette shall include
colors for siding, shakes, shutters, shingles, brick, stone, etc.
3.All foundation walls shall be screened by landscaping or retaining walls.
40
Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
h. Site Landscaping and Screening
The intent of this section is to improve the appearance of vehicular use areas and property
abutting public rights-of-way; to require buffering between different land uses; and to
protect, preserve and promote the aesthetic appeal, character and value of the surrounding
neighborhoods; to promote public health and safety through the reduction of noise
pollution, air pollution, visual pollution and glare.
1.The landscaping standards shall provide for screening for visual impacts associated
with a given use, including but not limited to, truck loading areas, trash storage,
parking lots, Large unadorned building massing, etc.
2.Each lot for development shall submit a separate landscaping plan as a part of the site
plan review process.
3.All open spaces and non-parking lot surfaces, except for plaza areas, shall be
landscaped, rockscaped, or covered with plantings and/or lawn material. Tree wells
shall be included in pedestrian areas and plazas.
4.Undulating berms, north of Lyman Boulevard, north and south of Highway 312 and
west of Highway 101 shall be sodded or seeded at the conclusion of grading and utility
construction. The required buffer landscaping may be installed where it is deemed
necessary to screen any proposed development. All required boulevard landscaping
shall be sodded.
5.Loading areas shall be screened from public right-of-ways. Wing walls may be required
where deemed appropriate.
6.Native species shall be incorporated into site landscaping, whenever possible.
i. Street Furnishings
Benches, kiosks, trash receptacles, planters and other street furnishings should be of
design and materials consistent with the character of the area. Wherever possible, street
furnishings should be consolidated to avoid visual clutter and facilitate pedestrian
movement.
j. Signage
The intent of this section is to establish an effective means of communication in the
development, maintain and enhance the aesthetic environment and the business’s ability
to attract sources of economic development and growth, to improve pedestrian and traffic
safety, to minimize the possible adverse effect of signs on nearby public and private
property, and to enable the fair and consistent enforcement of these sign regulations. It is
the intent of this section, to promote the health, safety, general welfare, aesthetics, and
41
Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
image of the community by regulating signs that are intended to communicate to the
public, and to use signs which meet the city's goals:
a.Establish standards which permit businesses a reasonable and equitable opportunity to
advertise their name and service;
b.Preserve and promote civic beauty, and prohibit signs which detract from this objective
because of size, shape, height, location, condition, cluttering or illumination;
c.Ensure that signs do not create safety hazards;
d.Ensure that signs are designed, constructed, installed and maintained in a manner that
does not adversely impact public safety or unduly distract motorists;
e.Preserve and protect property values;
f.Ensure signs that are in proportion to the scale of, and are architecturally compatible
with, the principal structures;
g.Limit temporary commercial signs and advertising displays which provide an
opportunity for grand opening and occasional sales events while restricting signs
which create continuous visual clutter and hazards at public right-of-way
intersections.
j.1. Project Identification Sign
One project identification sign for the commercial portion of the development located at
the entrance off of Highway 101. Project identification signs shall not exceed 80square
feet in sign display area nor be greater than eight feet in height. The sign shall be setback
a minimum of 10 feet from the property line.
As an alternative, the project identification sign may be located at the southeast corner of
Lot 2, Block 1. If the sign is located in the right-of-way, an encroachment agreement
must be obtained. Otherwise, the sign must maintain a 10 foot setback from property
lines and may not exceed 24 square feet nor be higher than 5 feet.
j.2. Monument Sign
One monument sign shall be permitted at the entrance to the development off of Lake
Susan Drive. One monument sign per lot shall be permitted for the commercial portion
of the site. One multi-tenant sign shall be permitted at the entrance into the development
off of Highway 101 and two signs off of Lyman Boulevard. These signs shall not exceed
24 square feet in sign display area nor be greater than 5 feet in height except Kwik Trip,
located on Lot 1, Block 1, shall be permitted a 48 square-foot, 8-foot high monument
sign. These signs must comply with all ordinances pertaining to size and percent of sign
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
area dedicated to gas prices as well as any other applicable regulations.These signs shall
be set back a minimum of 10 feet from the property line.
j.3. Wall Signs
a.The location of letters and logos shall be restricted to the approved
building sign bands, the tops of which shall not extend above parapet height. The
letters and logos shall be restricted to a maximum of 30 inches in height. All individual
letters and logos comprising each sign shall be constructed of wood, metal, or
translucent facing.
b.Second story illuminated signs that can be viewed from neighborhoods
outside the PUD site, are prohibited.
c.Tenant signage shall consist of store identification only. Copy is
restricted to the tenant’s proper name and major product or service offered.
Corporate logos, emblems and similar identifying devices are permitted provided they
are confined within the signage band and do not occupy more than 15% of the sign
area unless the logo is the sign.
d.Wall signs are limited to two elevations per building.
j.4. Festive Flags/Banners
a.Flags and banners shall be permitted on approved standards attached to the
building facade and on standards attached to pedestrian area lighting.
b.Flags and banners shall be constructed of fabric or vinyl.
c.Banners shall not contain advertising for individual users, businesses,
services, or products.
d.Flags and banners shall project from buildings a maximum of two feet.
e.Flags and banners shall have a maximum area of 10 square feet.
f.Flags and banners which are torn or excessively worn shall be removed at the request
of the city.
j.5. Building Directory
a.In multi-tenant buildings, one building directory sign may be
permitted. The directory sign shall not exceed eight square feet.
j.6 Directional Signs
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
a.On-premises signs shall not be larger than four (4) square feet. The maximum height
of the sign shall not exceed five (5) feet from the ground. The placement of
directional signs on the property shall be so located such that the sign does not
adversely affect adjacent properties (including site lines or confusion of adjoining
ingress or egress) or the general appearance of the site from public rights-of-way. No
more than four (4) signs shall be allowed per lot. The city council may allow
additional signs in situations where access is confusing or traffic safety could be
jeopardized.
b.Off-premises signs shall be allowed only in situations where access is confusing and
traffic safety could be jeopardized or traffic could be inappropriately routed through
residential streets. The size of the sign shall be no larger than what is needed to
effectively view the sign from the roadway and shall be approved by the city council.
c.Bench signs are prohibited except at transit stops as authorized by the local transit
authority.
d.Signs and Graphics. Wherever possible, traffic control, directional and other public
signs should be consolidated and grouped with other street fixtures and furnishings to
reduce visual clutter and to facilitate vehicular and pedestrian movement. A system of
directional signs should also be established to direct traffic within the commercial
area and away from residential areas.
j.7.Prohibited Signs
Pylon signs are prohibited.
Back lit awnings are prohibited.
Window Signs are prohibited except for company logo/symbol and not the
name. Such logo shall not exceed 10% of a window area.
Menu Signs are prohibited.
j.8. Sign Design and Permit Requirements
a.The sign treatment is an element of the architecture and thus should reflect the quality
of the development. The signs should be consistent in color, size, and material and
height throughout the development. A common theme will be introduced at the
development's entrance monument and will be used throughout.
b.All signs require a separate sign permit.
c.Wall business signs shall comply with the city’s sign ordinance for the Neighborhood
business district for determination of maximum sign area. Wall signs may be
permitted on the “street” front and primary parking lot front of each building.
k. Lighting
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
1. Lighting for the interior of the development shall be consistent throughout the
development. High pressure sodium vapor lamps or LEDwith decorative natural colored
pole shall be used throughout the development parking lot area for lighting. Decorative,
pedestrian scale lighting shall be used in plaza and sidewalk areas and may be used in
parking lot areas.Parking lot light poles may not exceed 25 feet in height.
2. Light fixtures in areas other than parking lots should be kept to a pedestrian scale (12
to 18 feet). Street light fixtures should accommodate vertical banners for use in
identifying the commercial area.
3. All light fixtures shall be shielded. Light level for site lighting shall be no more than
½ foot candle at the project perimeter property line. This does not apply to street
lighting.
4. Lighting for parking areas shall minimize the use of lights on pole standards in the
parking area. Rather, emphasis should be placed on building lights and poles located in
close proximity to buildings.
l. Non-Residential Parking
1.Parking shall be provided based on the shared use of parking areas whenever
possible. Cross access easements and the joint use of parking facilities shall be
protected by a recorded instrument acceptable to the city.
2.The development shall be treated as an integrated shopping center and provide a
minimum of one space per 200 square feet of commercial/retail area. The
office/personal service component shall be treated as an integrated office building and
provide 4.5 space per 1,000 square feet for the first 49,999 square feet, four per
thousand square feet for the second 50,000 square feet, and 3.5 per thousand square
feet thereafter.
m.
Residential Parking shall comply with city code requirements.”
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council
approve the site plan consisting of a 13,871 square-foot multi-tenant building with a drive-
thru to allow a fast food restaurant (Building 4B), Planning Case 2013-06 as shown in plans
dated received January 23, 2013, and including the attached Findings of Fact,
Recommendation and Summary Ordinance for Publication Purposes, subject to the following
conditions:
Environmental Resource Conditions:
1.All existing boulevard trees along the west property line must be protected during
construction or replaced after construction if damaged or dead.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
2.The selections of Norway maple and Colorado spruce must be removed from the plant
schedule. Hackberry may be selected to replace the Norway maple, other selections as
suggested by the applicant and approved by city staff.
3.Staff recommends that recycling containers be place alongside trash containers in public
spaces.
4.Staff recommends that evergreens be located near the drive-thru area to block headlight
glare into the neighboring use and Highway 101 traffic.
5.The required number of overstory trees in the south and east bufferyards is 8. The
applicant shall convert understory selections to overstory species in all locations where
they are not in conflict with signage.
Fire Marshal Conditions:
MSFC sec. 508.5.4.
1.A three-foot clear space shall be maintained around fire hydrants.
SFC Sec.
2.Watermains shall be made serviceable prior to combustible construction.
503.1.1
.
3.Fences, posts, landscaping, storage and other materials shall not be placed near fire
hydrants, Fire Department sprinkler connections that would prevent such equipment from
MSFC. Sec 508.5.4.
being immediately discernible.
No Parking Fire Lane
4.“” signage and yellow painted curbing will be required. Have
developer contact Chanhassen Fire Marshal for exact locations and sign requirements.
MSFC Sec. 503.3.
An addition fire hydrant fire will be required. Contact Fire Marshal for location
5. .
Engineering Conditions:
1.Upon completion, the applicant shall submit a set of “as-built” plans signed by a
professional engineer.
2.All of the maintenance for landscaping, and irrigation within the right-of-way must be
maintained by the developer.
3.The applicant shall work with staff on minor plan modifications.
4.The phase line must be shown on all plans.
5.The applicant must work with the City to provide assurances that the edge of pavement
and drainage patterns can be adequately maintained given the proposed phase line.
6.A stop sign must be installed at the end of the drive-thru.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
7.Site detail "21" in front of the retail building must be included in the site notes.
8.The traffic study must be updated to include an analysis of traffic volumes to the year
2023.
9.The developer shall comply with any additional conditions of approval resulting from the
2023 traffic volumes.
10.The applicant must obtain a MnDOT drainage permit.
11.Spot elevations must be shown on the grading plan to confirm that the site meets the
following minimum grade requirements: 0.5% along curb lines, 1% on pavement, and 2%
on turf.
12.Emergency overflow locations and elevations must be shown on the plans.
13.The finished floor elevation of each building must be minimum one foot above the
emergency overflow.
14.The proposed sanitary sewer, watermain and storm sewer shall be privately owned and
maintained.
15.All utilities must be installed and tested in accordance with City standards.
16.The rim and invert elevations of manholes must be shown on the utility plan.
17.Provide a detail of each utility crossing to ensure that there are no conflicts.
18.The storm sewer design must be modified to provide sufficient inlet capacity for drainage
area 20.
19.Add the storm sewer schedule to the utility plan.
20.The power to the Crossroads Boulevard irrigation system must be removed from the City
supply and connected to the development's system.
21.Identify the utility line between the entry monument at Lyman Boulevard and the
southern retail building. This utility shall be relocated within the right of way and/or
drainage and utility easements.
22.The plan set must include a detail sheet.
23.City of Chanhassen Detail Plate 5215, Pedestrian Ramps, must be included on the detail
sheet.
Planning Conditions:
1.Encroachment agreements are needed for any structure located in the drainage and utility
easements.
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Chanhassen City Council – March 25, 2013
2.All rooftop and ground equipment must be screened from views.
3.Approval of the site plan applications is contingent upon approval of the PUD
amendment – Planning Case 2013-06.
4.Sign illumination and design shall comply with ordinance.
The exterior material for the trash enclosure must be of the same exterior material as the
5.
building. Recycling space and other solid waste collection space should be contained
within the same enclosure.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s take a quick, let’s take a real quick recess. Let’s just keep it to a couple minutes.
Thank you.
The City Council took a short recess at this point in the meeting.
APPOINTMENTS TO COMMISSIONS.
Mayor Furlong: The next item recommending and considering some appointments to some of our
commissions. Over the last month and a half the City Council has been interviewing a number of
residents with regard to their interest in serving on one of our several commissions. The City Council has
established and makes appointments to our Planning Commission, Park and Recreation Commission,
Senior Commission and Environmental Commission each year. Those terms tend to be staggered.
They’re 7 member boards and we have really appreciated, I know I’m speaking for the whole council the
level of interest. The quality of the applicants that we have each and every year but especially this year as
well. It is really a treat to spend time, even though it’s a little time. It seems too little sometimes with our
residents that are interested in serving a variety of reasons for serving so we thank all the people that are
involved and that have been interested and made application. This evening we’re prepared to make
appointments, or I will recommend appointments to the council for two of our commissions. The
Planning Commission and the Environmental Commission, and we have different and varying terms so
I’m going to try to be specific here and if I do make any mistakes I’m sure somebody will be able to jump
in and correct me but with regard to the Planning Commission, our recommendation or I’ll make the
motion to appoint the following individuals to a 3 year term expiring in March of 2016. That would be
Andrew Aller, Kim Tennyson and Steve Weich. We would also make appointments to the Planning
Commission for a 2 year term expiring in March of 2015 of Constance Alstad and make appointment to a
1 year term expiring in March of 2014 for Maryam Yusuf. With regard to the Environmental
Commission we would make a motion to appoint, or I would make a motion to appoint to 3 year terms
expiring in March of 2016, Glen Kaufman and Amy Oman and to a one year, or excuse me. A 2 year
term expiring in March of 2015, again to the Environmental Commission Brett Borth. We will be taking
up and considering appointments to our Park and Recreation Commission and our Senior Commission I
expect at our next council meeting. In fact we’re going to continue our discussions in work session after
this but so I would make a motion for those appointments and at this time ask for a second.
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
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