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PRC 2013 08 27 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 27, 2013 Chairman Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Cole Kelly, Steve Scharfenberg, Elise Ryan, Brent Carron, Jim Boettcher, Rick Echternacht, Luke Thunberg, Jacob Stolar and Ryan Lynch STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Mitch Johnson, Recreation Supervisor PUBLIC PRESENT: Jim Manders 6791 Chaparral Lane APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Kelly: Anybody have anything to add or delete? Scharfenberg: Yeah, I would request an update from staff on the Rice Marsh trail. Can we put that under old business? Kelly: Yep, we’ll put it as number 2 under old business. Any other changes? Requests. Ryan: Can we get an update on what the decision was for that County bike plan. You had sent… Kelly: Oh okay I see. The Hennepin County Three Rivers. Yeah, we’ll put that under, I think that’d be new business. So we’ll put that under L and move adjournment to M. Echternacht: Comments on the Lotus Lake. The trimming of the trees. Kelly: Okay, that will be number 3 under old business. Trees. Anything else to add? Okay. I think we’ve got our agenda set. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. Kelly: Jim, you’re going to make a presentation tonight? Jim Manders: Just here for the update on what I talked about last week. Kelly: Okay. Thank you. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Kelly: Any changes to the Minutes for anyone? Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Carron: On page 14. Middle of the page. Got me saying good evening. Doesn’t make sense. I don’t know what I said but. Maybe explanation. Good explanation. Might fit little bit better. That’s all I have. Kelly: Okay. Is there a motion on the Minutes. Carron moved, Boettcher seconded to approve the summary Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated July 23, 2013 as presented and approve the verbatim Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated July 23, 2013 amended to change the comment by Carron on page 14 from Good evening to Good explanation. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. KERBER POND TREE TRIMMING. Kelly: Actually I think I’m going to reverse the order here. I think we’ll start with 3 and then do 2 and then go into 1. So 3 would be the Lotus Lake trimming of the trees. The tree removal. Hoffman: Kerber Pond. Kelly: Kerber Pond, that’s it. Anybody have any comments to make? Echternacht: I went over there and took some pictures and I saw what Jim was referring about and my recommendation is that we do trim the bushes and the trees in front of the bench so that they can enjoy the scenery and I have those pictures if anybody would like to look at them on my phone. Kelly: Todd, has anyone from the City gone out and looked at it since the last meeting and what is the City’s conclusion at this point? Hoffman: I look at it almost every day and my opinion is that the bench was never placed to be, to have a view of Kerber Pond. It was placed there because it seemed to be a nice place, when we met with the family, the individual that the bench is for lived in Saddlebrook. He enjoyed that trail so it’s a view of the open space in Kerber Pond Park. It was never really intended to be a view of the large pond itself. My opinion is if you want to get a view of that pond you’re going to have to do some significant tree cutting and in a place like Kerber Pond Park that’s intended to be a park preserve and in a park preserve you wouldn’t go in there and start cutting trees down so you can get a view that’s going to grow back and get obstructed in the future anyway so that would be staff’s position. Kelly: And what would the cost be to go in there and clear that area out, do you think? Hoffman: Well the cost would be staff time so you’d spend a day or two down in there cutting trees down and removing them. Kelly: Okay. Any other comments or questions? Echternacht: Yeah I would agree you would have to continue to maintain it because it’s going to continue to grow up. There’s not any big trees in that area. They’re off to the side but it’s just the underbrush and the smaller seedlings that are coming up now but we, it would need to be maintained if we did do that. Kelly: Any other comments? Is there a motion on the floor anywhere? Citing no motion we will move on to item number 2. 2 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 UPDATE ON RICE MARSH LAKE TRAIL. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Kelly and members of the commission. We were talking about this project just before the meeting assembled. Barber Construction started last Thursday and by Friday they had hit the Eden Prairie border with their clearing and grubbing and they were looking for the contractor in the Eden Prairie side who hadn’t reached the border yet so we were happy to get there first. We’re very pleased with how they’re progressing with the construction. Jerry Barber was hoping to be done in 30 days and I think he might meet that if the weather holds so they’re cleared and grubbed all the way through to Eden Prairie and the trail stub that will go back to the neighborhood, the future neighborhood. They’ve rocked about a third of the trail to date which is now, so Monday and Tuesday, we worked through Tuesday. We’ll be meeting tomorrow with all city staff that are interested in the project. Our engineer, Water Resources Coordinator, the contractor and then representatives from Barber to go over any last minute questions because this thing is progressing at such a rate that I think they’re going to be probably done with the rocking perhaps by the end of this week so very happy with the progress and we’re talking with Eden Prairie and the council has also been talking about the project. Probably a ribbon cutting first of October at the Rice Marsh Lake. There’s two parks. Rice Marsh Lake parks. One in Eden Prairie and one in Chanhassen. I think we’ll be meeting at the Eden Prairie Rice Marsh Lake Park. Kelly: Thank you Todd. Any questions? Let’s move on to the CIP. APPROVE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL, 2014-2018 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Kelly: Todd you want to kind of walk the commission through the CIP and what you’re proposing and then we’ll. Hoffman: I will. Thanks Chair Kelly and members of the commission. We have a presentation tonight that we’ll go through and the presentation covers all of the recommended projects for 2014 through 2018 and then at the conclusion of that presentation we’ll talk about what’s not in this recommendation so that we can make sure that we have that on the forefront of our mind as well. This is the recommended park and trail acquisition and development improvement program, our capital improvement program 2014 through 2018. A 5 year plan. So these are the projects that occur annually, each year. Picnic tables and benches. We have $10,000. We purchase new picnic tables as needed. Purchase park benches and then all of the benches that are in our memorial park bench program for resale are purchased out of this fund and then $1,000 for a memorial park bench is put back into this fund when those are purchased. Trees, it’s a $15,000 annual dedicated purchase of trees for spring and fall tree planting. It funds special tree planting projects to do replacements due to vandalism and we’ve accelerated it due to the, to protect against the future loss of our ash trees so this fund formerly was $10,000 per year. 2014 projects specifically. So next year we’ll be patching and resurfacing 4 tennis courts at City Center Park and 1 tennis court at Lake Ann Park, and that’s a $75,000 investment. That’s the second round of tennis court resurfacing. The first round was 2 last year. Out at Bluff Creek Elementary and the Rec Center we need to replace a boiler and so that’s in cooperation with the school district. Eastern Carver County Schools, District 112. This is a 24% total cost of the boiler. The Rec Center operates 24% of the school building, thus we pay 24% of major capital improvement purchases. Recreation Center entrance improvements and so if you’ve been to the Rec Center you’ve seen this concrete at the front which has heaved due to frost from water collection in that area of the front walk. This project has been accelerated so it’s budgeted next year and it’s underway as of yesterday so that concrete will be coming out. The scupper that dumps into this area will be draintiled into a sanitary or into a, excuse me a storm sewer inlet and then this concrete will be replaced and re-poured. We are paying 100% of our cost on our side in this case and the school district’s paying 100% of their cost on their side. That’s $17,000 for the concrete. This item 25 will be rounded out with 3 additional safety and security lights added to the front area. We get a lot of 3 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 complaints about there’s not enough light at the Rec Center in the evenings, and those lights will be LED so they don’t have to be wired to the major power source out at the recreation center and the Bluff Creek. There’s a 110 outlet right in this vicinity. That’s where those LED lights will be wired to and then they’ll be on all evening long for security and safety. Scharfenberg: Todd if I could just interrupt for a second. I’m glad that we’re finally. Hoffman: Fixing that. Scharfenberg: Doing that particular project because that’s been an eyesore for. Hoffman: A long time. Scharfenberg: For a long time so. Hoffman: And a safety concern. Scharfenberg: Yeah. Yeah. Hoffman: Absolutely, yeah. Aesthetics and safety all wrapped in one and that is the second addition so the Rec Center was built in 1995. That’s the second addition of steps that have been put in there, and it’s really a water problem. You have no much clay soil there that the water collects and then in the winter it freezes and you get that frost heaving up from those saturated soils. This project’s been kicked around for a number of years and this is a boat access dock at South Lotus Lake Park and what this item would do would be to invest $10,000 each or there about’s for aluminum docks for the boat access locations at Lake Ann and Lake Susan, and really that’s an accessibility issue so we have lots of different folks with different abilities and ages that access our public facilities. Our public water accesses and when you don’t have a dock to be able to have some type of mobility device get out onto the water and then enter a boat, you really restrict some of those uses for certain populations. Scharfenberg: Todd, can I just ask a question about that? Hoffman: Sure. Scharfenberg: Why, is there a real need for something like that at Lake Susan? And the only reason I ask that, it seems that the majority of the people that are on that lake come in, you know they’re in there to fish or whatever and then they’re right back out so what would be the purpose of putting a dock there at Lake Susan? Hoffman: Well these docks are specifically for the purpose of launching and loading into a boat. People and gear into a boat and so when you back your boat in and then you have you know able body or disabled folks, they need to access that watercraft. Very difficult to do if you’re disabled without a dock and access dock and so this would be a common improvement at most every public water access in the state of Minnesota. We just don’t have it, a dock at two of our public water accesses so if you launch then you have to kind of drag it back to shore and then people either have to wade part way in or jump in off the front so it’s accessibility issue. Really since there is no other lake access we should be mandated to install those for accessibility. Talking about one of the last trail connections to the Arboretum so this would just simply to be to continue design and planning to complete the trail underneath Highway 41. That’s the underpass shown in the photo. In the right hand quadrant is Lifetime Fitness and the left hand quadrant of that image is the brand new, or reasonably new Arboretum sign and so this trail would go, this box culvert would go underneath Highway 41 and then around the Arboretum sign and then the next 4 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 couple of slides, I’ll show you the trail. So that’s starting from the access to the Arboretum and heading back east towards Lifetime Fitness. Kelly: Todd can I interrupt you for a moment? Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: We’re putting in a grant this year for that underpass, is that correct? Hoffman: We will be, yep. Kelly: Okay because we’ve been turned down on a grant correct? Hoffman: Correct. Kelly: Now if we get turned down twice what happens? Hoffman: We either find another funding source or continue to look for alternative grant proposals. This is an ISTEA grant. Federally funded transportation and these are the big dollar ones so this is the same kind of grant that funded the Highway 41 trail and underpass. We’re talking in the million dollar range so that’s the kind of grant that we need. And with all the different connections and all the different partners this ranked very high so we’re confident it will rank high again or hopefully rank high enough to get funded so. Kelly: Okay. Ryan: And so does life, sorry. Kelly: Go ahead. Ryan: So does Lifetime and the Arboretum offer letters of support or? Hoffman: They do. Ryan: Is that their involvement? Hoffman: And that’s very important. Lifetime Fitness offered up free access to their property. No easements required and no cost to the City or the project so that’s great. The Arboretum same thing. The trail’s going to go onto their property. They’re saying you can do that at no cost and you know if you were working on a property where you had to pay for those easements, that would be a significant dollar amount so those are really valuable in kind contributions to the project. Kelly: So Todd for some reason we didn’t get the grant, we’re not going to follow through with the design at that point we’d push it back until we found a funding source? Hoffman: Correct. Kelly: Okay, thank you. Hoffman: And some of these dollars will be invested in that grant application. That grant proposal. Any other planning. We have this much planning done so I think we’re you know in pretty good shape as far 5 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 as the design goes but if there’s additional planning or graphics or grant application work that will be paid for out of that allotment. That’s getting us all the way back to the, you can see the building, Lifetime Fitness in the right hand corner on the top slide. And then the bottom slide is all the way back to Century Boulevard so it goes all the way back to where the daycare and the bank and the Subway are. Here’s another project that’s been around for a number of years but has not been funded. It’s the Roundhouse Park playground phase II so it’s $25,000 to add a 2 through 5 aged playground so the container is already sized for that and we purchase it and then probably install it through the playground provider or through our staff and then the parents now have an option when they bring a child aged 2 to 5 down to the playground, they don’t have to play on the older equipment. This is more age appropriate. Sugarbush Park same thing. Phase II for 2 to 5 and if you studied the Consumer Product Safety Commission recommendations, their recommendation is that you have age appropriate playground both for the younger age and the older age and that they’re separated so parents and users can make a differentiation between those two. And again at Sugarbush Park the container is sized for a phase II playground so Phase I is there which is a 5 through 12 and this would be an additional of the second phase for ages 2 through 5. Right here on City Center Park, $45,000 for the installation of a permanent, or four permanent poles and then a seasonally installed band shell fabric. That’s a depiction of what it would look like or closely look like so that’s on the plaza to offer up shade for performers. To add some color to the park. Improve sound quality for the performances. Draw attention to the fact that this is a performance amphitheater and then add some architecture and a sense of place to that amphitheater during the season so this would be taken down during the winter. Installed in the spring and this company that works on these recently, if you’ve been to the zoo recently, they just did a really large installation of this product at the zoo. Minnesota Zoo. Scharfenberg: Todd when you say it would come down in the fall, is that including the poles or, poles would stay? Just the fabric. Hoffman: Yep. So it’s the four permanent poles would be there year round and the fabric comes down. And it’d be down already this time of year. It would already be removed. 2015, Bluff Creek Drive gap trail and so this project was in 2014 and got pushed to 2015. City Manager has requested that not only do we take a look at just the trail but he would want to combine that with a road project which would be a master street and stormwater project so there would be surface improvements to the road. Intersection improvements and then there’s a significant stormwater problem as you start going down the hill. This image shows the terminus to the trail as you leave highway, or Pioneer Trail and Highway 212 and head south and then the trail just stops. So that section was put in with a state project when Highway 212 was built and the re-route for Bluff Creek Drive and it stops there. So the park fund would fund $500,000 and that would be for walls associated with the trail and then the trail itself and then streets. We would need to put the money in for street improvements, surface improvements, intersection improvements, turn lanes and then stormwater funding. Any questions on Bluff Creek? Kelly: Todd is there any chance with the street project, and we’d only do that with a street project correct? Hoffman: Correct. Kelly: Any chance the prices might go down a little bit from the $500,000? Hoffman: Or up. Kelly: Or up, so that’s a good mean? Hoffman: (Yes). 6 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Kelly: Okay, thank you. Hoffman: Camden Ridge trail and so Lennar Homes is developing, it’s the area, it’s labeled there Camden Ridge so that’s a new housing development and they’ll build really the second to last segment of trail coming down Bluff Creek. There will be a section that needs to go under Highway 212 down at the bridge. It goes right underneath and then there’s a final piece of private property down at the bottom where it will be connected. So what we do here is the developer is grading, they’re mass grading. They’re grading lots. They’re building roads and they build the trail also and then we pay them back for the materials. Bituminous base. The aggregate. Bituminous trail, aggregate base and then the stormwater structures. So it’s not fair to say you just build it all simply because you happened to put your houses on top of where a comprehensive trail plan is but it is fair to say you know what, you’re out there doing the grading and the site work, why don’t you go ahead and install that as a part of your planning. We’ll pay you for the materials. We’ve done that for 25 years in the City and that’s really one of the best methods by which we’ve built our comprehensive trail plan. And it’s a benefit to their houses because it sells, those connections sell to their houses for their residents. Carron: Is the underpass already in place? Hoffman: The bridge is already in place, yep. Carron: So it’s a bridge? Hoffman: Yep, it’s a bridge so it’s one of those spider bridges. The big, right there by the barn that has all the banners always hung on it. It’s right there so the bridge is in place. We do not have a Limited Use Permit yet from the State of Minnesota to operate a public trail under there and we don’t have a destination on the south to get to Pioneer Trail. That’s still private property so. Scharfenberg: So Todd what has to happen for us to complete that trail to get it, I mean do we, you get an easement from the property owner or you wait for that property owner to sell? Hoffman: We could, I’ve asked him about considering an easement. I think he’s kind of upset with the development process and so I don’t think he’s in the mood to hand over an easement or sell an easement but at some point that triangle will develop and when it develops or subdivides then the City has the ability to go in there and acquire that last section of trail. So I think we’re in a waiting game. The owner is Bruce Jeurissen. At least one of the owners. There’s 3 owners on the south side but if you go down there, the individual that owns the gravel road is Bruce Jeurissen. He’s developing Camden Ridge and people are going to walk on his road. They’re going to find that path. They’re going to walk on that road. I’ve expressed that to him. I said that’s really up to you then Bruce if you don’t want to grant an easement to allow access then you know you’re going to have to deal with the trespassers. Either post it No Trespassing or gate it off or close it off. This is a new project so it’s something you’re not going to recognize. It’s the County Road 61 pedestrian trail improvements and it’s a City contribution so that’s a County road project down on old Highway 212 and it’s a second component to the bridge crossing so the 101 bridge crossing is the first component. This is the second component with the traffic circles or roundabouts and what, there’s approximately $600,000 in trail improvements going in there with the underpass. You can see the box underpass right at the large roundabout. So there’s a trail underpass in red there. So if you go to the left or the west of the roundabout, that’s where the trail will come underneath and then it will go all the way along the north side of County Road 61 and so the City’s contribution for that project would be $150,000 and those would be park dedication funds in 2015. 7 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Echternacht: Todd is that, on the north side, is that going west then to 101? Where the road goes up the hill now. Hoffman: Yep, it’s going west towards 101 and then continues from 101 over to Bluff Creek Drive and then it stops. Echternacht: Okay. Hoffman: And then I think it was previous slide, the Bluff Creek slide. Well couple more back. The Bluff Creek, yeah that project. This project would continue down and make the final connection. And then that will continue east in Eden Prairie so there’s a Hennepin County project in tandem so this is the Carver County section of County Road 61 and then Hennepin County will be doing their piece as well. Constructing the road. Bringing it up so it doesn’t flood. You have a new bridge that’s not going to flood so why flood County Road 61 so they’re going to be bringing that up so that doesn’t flood when the water comes up, and then they’ll be putting their trail on the north side all the way into Eden Prairie. So this will be another east/west connector down at the base of the river where you could drop off the LRT. Get onto County Road 61 and then bike all the way into Eden Prairie or turn around and head towards Chaska. Kelly: Todd the $500,000, does that take it down from where it ends on Bluff Creek currently to the LRT or all the way to 61? Hoffman: All the way to and the reason that price jumped was because of that wall that’s going to be needed between the LRT and this terminus. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: If you drive it, you drive Bluff Creek trail, there’s a Lincoln Log type concrete structure. It’s only about 8 feet off the road right now. That’s all going to have to come out and be replaced with a new wall to support the earth while this trail is built on the downward side of it. Kelly: So these two projects will then hook up to each other. Hoffman: (Yes). Kelly: Thank you. Scharfenberg: Todd when you, just for clarification purposes. When you said Hennepin County would be building the trail going east, how far will that go? All the way to County Road 4? Hoffman: I think it’s going all the way, well I can’t way where the terminus. Is County Road 4 Pioneer Trail? Scharfenberg: County Road 4 is right by the Lion’s Tap. Hoffman: Yeah, it’s going there and may go beyond. I don’t know what the terminus is. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: It may go all the way up the hill. I’ll find out and I’ll send you, I’ll send you a plan. I saw that plan today. I know it will get you to Lion’s Tap for sure. It may go all the way up the hill. 8 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Kelly: That’s important. Hoffman: That’d be nice to bike to the Lion’s Tap wouldn’t it? Okay, 2016. We really start to wind down. Just a couple of projects. So we’re estimating that that lot, that final lot on this property will eventually sell and then we’re on the hook to pay for those trail improvements. So this is out at Century Drive and this is the last piece of the Chanhassen Nature Preserve trail. The adjoining parcel is the, called Mamac Systems so that’s, this actually shows the piece that is in place. There’s the pond on the corner of th 96 and Century. That’s the pond in the corner. Mamac is right there where the writing is and then this is going to be the last piece going around the north side. And it’s part of a development contract so when Steiner Development developed all that. Every time a developer comes in we enter into a DC or a Development Contract and that specifies certain things that they’re going to do as a part of our agreement with them and as a part of this DC we said that, when that lot develops you’re going to finish that trail so it’s the same type of arrangement when you start grading. There’s no reason for us to go in, if we go in there and place a trail before the lot is graded it will probably get torn out and you really don’t like to do that if you can avoid that so we just simply say when that lot is developed then you finish the trail section and Chan Nature Preserve is a very nice trail. It goes all the way around that 100 acres of wetland and woods so this will be the final piece. Kelly: So Todd if that piece of property doesn’t sell, this could be pushed back a few years depending upon. Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: Thank you. Hoffman: And it could be brought forward. You know somebody could call tomorrow and say hey, they bought that lot and they’re going to build on it. These are dedicated project funds so this is an item you can’t pull out or, it’s just going to be there until it happens. The amount you know probably will be less than that but the amount will be, is an estimate. 2016 also some, start some planning and design work for that future expansion at Bandimere so we have that, we have a plan in place but we want to expand upon that. Start to identify some true costs of what this project will actually take and then adding ballfield lights to the existing fields. There’s just a lot of discussion. I know the commission was talking about it at your last meeting. How much money it will take and how will it be paid for? That area of the city is definitely interested in that project and so you know as even when we were out building that playground in Riley Ridge Park people are, you know we know we’re not going to have a hockey rink but we understand there’s going to be one in the future down at Bandimere or we know there’s not a tennis court really south of 5 other than the Rec Center so we know a tennis court is coming so people are picking up on that and so there’s going to be some demand for those facilities in the future. I think that’s it. And then briefly just to go over the items that are not in the CIP. The construction of the trail to the Arboretum is not fully funded. The Lake Ann trail loop, going all the way around Lake Ann Park which is on our comp plan is not fully funded. Bandimere Community Park expansion. We just mentioned that. The Highway 7 trail connection to Lake Minnetonka Regional Trail. This is something that the people in Minnewashta Parkway neighborhood were asking for when we were out at National Night Out so we visited with people living in the neighborhoods west of Roundhouse Park. What do you want in parks and trails and they wanted the tennis court at Roundhouse Park and they wanted a connection to the LRT trail and they don’t have that connection. The Highway 5 connection will happen with Victoria’s grant. They received a grant for a trail so they’ll be connecting over to the Arboretum property and onto the LRT and then this route, this Highway 7 trail would be the connection from the north side of Minnewashta Parkway out to the underpass on the LRT. 9 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Scharfenberg: And Todd you had suggested, when you and I had talked about this that maybe perhaps a meeting with Victoria would be appropriate to talk to them about that. Hoffman: Yep, and we’ve made that offer and they’ve accepted. We’re just going to coordinate a time and a date when the commissions can get together, or at least some portion of this commission and some portion of their commission to take a look at that. The Roundhouse Park tennis court, just mentioned that. That’s not funded. Future Phase I park development for the West Water Treatment Plant, which will, is proposed to be called Manchester Park. It’s at the end of Manchester Road. And then keeping these projects in mind, it’s important to retain a healthy reserve in the park dedication fund so as you’re talking about what you’re going to spend in the next 5 years, we’ve always talked about it’s important, we’d like to at least keep a million dollars in there so if one of these projects, you know the opportunity arises to do it, that we want to be in the position to finance it. With that I’ll be happy to answer any questions or continue the discussion with the commission and your task tonight is to make a recommendation to the City Council concerning the 2014 to 2018 proposed park and trail CIP. Kelly: I’ve got some questions and I’m going to direct them first at Jerry. I want to talk a little bit about lights at Lake Susan, which we don’t have on the CIP at this point and if we did it would be for $150,000 is my understanding. Jerry as far as timeframe if we had 2 games a night, you know how would that work? Would we have to start the games you have now earlier and then have later games and how late, you know is it feasible to have lights on at the park without people across the street having issues? Ruegemer: Well one thing nice with Lake Susan Park is that we don’t have a lot of residential in the immediately area. Certainly across the lake there may be some spill over light but I think we certainly can design lights to shine downward more so than, so we lessen that a little bit. As far as you know kind of the rule of thumb is we try to be done by 10:00 at night at the parks with those lights so 2 games a night would be very feasible. Kelly: And what kind of extra maintenance are we looking at for having 2 games a night? Ruegemer: Really no extra maintenance for that initially but you know ballfields are a little bit easier for foot traffic with 3 outfielders and the turf, natural turf areas with that. If it’s kind of a non-wet situation, there really shouldn’t be any turf damage to that. We do have a resting, a field resting schedule on soccer fields that we certainly could take a look at extending that into a baseball situation as well but really we haven’t had any problems with our ballfields currently at Lake Ann that were having double headers on. We did, you know we do some establish, re-establish some turf now and again but for the most part the fields are fully functional 100% of the time. Kelly: Okay. Now right now we’ve got what, 2 small seating areas for people to come and watch games. I don’t know if that needs to change or not but is that enough for what’s going on there and if we have double headers should we have more seating or what are your thoughts on that? Ruegemer: You know I think currently what we have, I mean a lot of people obviously if fans are coming down to watch games, certainly they sit in the bleachers that are available. A lot of people bring a bag of chairs and that sort of thing as well with that. I mean that’s a fairly minor expense if we would like to expand the bleachers at Lake Susan. That certainly can be up for consideration for future CIP’s so I don’t look at that as a real big expense. Kelly: Okay, when you say minor are we talking $10,000? $20,000? Ruegemer: I don’t even think it’d be that much. 10 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Kelly: You don’t think so? Okay. Hoffman: For sets of bleachers? Kelly: Right. Hoffman: Yeah…depending on how large they are. Kelly: I’m sorry, I didn’t hear you. Hoffman: $10,000 to $15,000 depending on how large they are, yeah. Kelly: Okay. So overall the continued expense of having lights there, obviously we’ve got the electricity concerns, and I don’t know how expensive that would get. It seems to me the maintenance wouldn’t be that much greater overall, from what you just said. So I’m just kind of curious, I guess our expenses would be electricity then really are continuing expenses and do you have an idea of per field what that is from Lake Ann or don’t you have it broken down that way? Ruegemer: I don’t have it broken down. You know the overall budget for utilities at Lake Ann is about that $8,000 or $9,000 range per year but that also includes electricity for the shelters during the winter time and that sort of thing so. Kelly: Right. Hoffman: …per field. Ruegemer: Yeah, I would think so. Kelly: About $1,000. Ruegemer: We certainly try to keep on top of the lighting situation too of having people turn them off when they’re done and that sort of thing here too so. Kelly: So if we added 2 games a night, is there enough demand out there to have it and, well I’ll let you answer that before I go to my next question. Ruegemer: Well youth sports today seem like the number of games keep increasing annually for that so, obviously with the CAA programs, the numbers keep growing you know single or double digit percentages on an annual basis. We also have Tonka Baseball. Minnetonka Baseball playing down in that field as well so I’m pretty confident that we can fill that field with a set of lights. Kelly: So that would be, we’d be filling it more with new demand and not moving people around from Lake Ann to Lake Susan type of thing? Ruegemer: Well I think it’s kind of all of the above Cole with that too. It certainly is, I think the number of games would increase with existing organizations that are using that facility so that gives them more flexibility within their programs as well. Kelly: So if we lit Lake Susan, would we be lighting it 3 nights a week? 4 nights a week? 5 nights a week? What would you, or would that continue to grow as time went on? 11 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Ruegemer: Yeah I would think a minimum of at least probably 4 to 5 per week. Stolar: If we do the lights, would we do the extra seating too at the same time or would we wait to see if we needed that extra seating or what would we do with that? Ruegemer: I think we certainly could gauge I guess the demand or the need for that. I wouldn’t say that would be necessary to do it at the same time. We certainly could gain feedback from users out there if it’s needed then we certainly can budget for that expense. Kelly: Todd and Jerry and I had a discussion about Lake Susan last week and I think Todd kind of had a grand vision that you’re going to make it a big stadium which, you know if you’re going to go that route we’re not going to have the money to do that and Jerry thought that we should just put in the lights and see what happens and see how it grows and what, you know what needs do we have you know for dugouts and other needs at that point but then we also discussed that Jerry should probably bring in all the different groups that are using the fields this winter and have a discussion about you know what are the real needs. What are these groups interested in and what groups are interested in putting in money besides the CAA if any so I think that’s kind of in the plan to look at right now isn’t it Jerry? Ruegemer: Yes it is. Scharfenberg: Well again I’ll just throw in my two cents worth again. I’m still not convinced that lighting Lake Susan is, the be all end all of you know increasing size. If you’re going to do that I still think you’re better off lighting Bandimere, and those 3 fields at Bandimere to increase size for baseball and softball so I’m not necessarily an opponent of, a proponent of throwing that $150,000 into the CIP. I would certainly recommend potentially talking to other groups. You know that field, if you want to make it into a softball, I mean make it into a regular baseball facility, needs some work. You know you would need to put in dugouts. I think the safety issues around that particular area alone need to be addressed. There’s probably some cosmetic issues with respect to the diamond itself that could use some work, and I know the Diamond Club, or whatever they’re called, I know they’ve been out and have done some work on that field alone but I’m not necessarily in agreement that $150,000 is going to do a whole lot or add a whole lot to those, and I think those other groups have other facilities available to them that they can use as well for games. Kelly: Any other questions or comments? Thunberg: I agree that if Bandimere is an option sooner, the idea of just you know, if that was the option to pick one. Light one field or spend the extra money and light a bulk of fields, I would, I agree with that logic. However I think in previous discussions we talked about the Bandimere expansion is 5 plus years out and with the growth of the CAA and the numbers that we heard, and I don’t want to be misquoted so I’m not going to throw them out there but the youth athletics are growing at a pretty large number and if that’s a 5 plus year out, we may be behind the 8 ball if we don’t. If this is an option now to light one field, I think it is a good option and worth looking into and having those, the idea of having those groups in and speaking to what would be the top needs I think is a great idea. Five plus years from now if we continue to see that kind of growth we may be in a position where we are lighting both of the parks anyway so if this is an option now I think it’s, my vote would be to continue to look into it. Kelly: Other comments. Ryan: I thought that we were able to light Bandimere now. That the conversation was that did we want to wait until you can light the expansion fields as well. That once the construction is done you’d be able 12 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 to tap into the electricity and do lights on the 3 fields now. It’s not necessarily a 5 year out project correct? Hoffman: Sure, you could light, you can take, you’re talking about $150,000 investment at Lake Susan. You can take that money and take it to Bandimere and you could light a single field there as well. That would, part of the conversation this winter with the groups is, you know what’s their priority? What facility do they think, if they’re going to start putting money into it, what facility do they think? Kelly: I also think part of the discussion is, is if we’re going to light Bandimere it would be cheaper to light 3 ballfields at one time than to go in and piecemeal it. And if you’re piecemealing it, does it really matter where you’re piecemealing it at? Hoffman: That’s what we ran into at Lake Ann. We started, we lit one and then two and then we were going to do more and then…Park Board and the Council said let’s just do the last… Ryan: So you could, obviously it would be more money but you could light Bandimere today if we wanted to instead of doing $150,000 you wanted to do 2 if it increases the availability and access for softball and baseball, I think that’s important to consider versus just baseball for Lake Susan. And then additionally, in a separate conversation it’s my understanding that the CAA is not where they said initially where they are with the fundraising so you know it’s a lot of projection versus you know they have the money and they have the commitment. They’re not 100% on the numbers nor are they sure exactly how they’re going to raise it. They might charge an additional fee so I know they said that they would contribute but you know that money is not there so that is a concern of mine. And then when you look at the addition of the $150,000 that we have for the County Road 61 that just came onto our, you know the park dedication, I think we should be wary of that $150,000 for Lake Susan. Kelly: Other comments? Carron: I guess I’m for lights. I don’t know what park. My biggest concern is Lake Susan I wouldn’t necessarily think it’d be a double header with the same two teams. I’m thinking four different teams, is that what you imagined? Ruegemer: It certainly could be with that. There’s back to back’s as well sometimes. Carron: Sometimes it goes over. I mean you never know with weather and that sort of thing but I think if you get 4 teams with vehicles in there, that parking lot’s not going to maintain. You’re going to have traffic congestion. Ruegemer: A lot of times in the spring too, the high school baseball programs are playing there. Then the community comes afterwards so a lot of times the high school games are going til 6:00-6:30. The community groups come after that so they’re kind of going into that darkness in you know May. Sometimes too, so it could be two different user groups with that as well so. Carron: Yeah, if you could space them out but there’s not enough time in the day, just like you mentioned so I guess, I guess that was my thinking there just as far as the parking and getting in and out. The more we keep talking about this I think, we do need lights. It’s going to happen and is Bandimere going to be the one we want to go with here sooner or later or do we want to put it in, want to put it in. Oh, just blanking on the park’s name. Ruegemer: Susan. 13 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Carron: Lake Susan, sorry. But I think Bandimere’s more set up for it as far as infrastructure of what we’re doing and one more comment since I’m talking now. I think, I know we’re talking 5 years out and it’s been mentioned for Bandimere but you always kind of want to do a little planning within reason of the time but I really would like to see the expansion of Bandimere moved up in the CIP because I think again we just sunk a half a million dollars into that house and that land. The State took care of the other land and it’s kind of an investment there that we’re just sitting on until we can get going with something. Now I know there’s a huge funding issue there, a funding gap. We’ve talked about referendums but I think $25,000, if we can move that up in the CIP to get the planning going on it, that might not be a bad idea. Scharfenberg: So Brent are you looking at maybe just moving it up a year to like 2015? Carron: Yeah. Scharfenberg: Okay. Carron: Yep. Scharfenberg: Yeah, I think that that’s a good idea. Todd what, do you have available what the, if we were to build a tennis court at Roundhouse, what is the cost of that? Hoffman: Double tennis court? Scharfenberg: Or double or single. I mean what, would we put in a double there or just a single? Hoffman: Yeah, we think we’d want to put in a double. I’ll have to take a look in my notes upstairs to give you an accurate… Scharfenberg: But I mean over $100,000 or less than? Hoffman: It’s close. $80,000 probably for a couple tennis courts. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: Depending on the… Scharfenberg: You know we haven’t built one, we haven’t built tennis courts in a really long time and their use, I think Todd has spoken to it several times. The amount of people that are playing and using them has gone down but you know again I just as a commission we need to listen to the people that are, the constituents and people that live in Chanhassen and this particular community has expressed an interest for several years to have this, have that particular thing built for them. That’s what they want to see and you know we built, you know we went out to Herman Park and they wanted to add you know that slab for a basketball court and we did that and not a lot of people express a lot of interest about things that they really want and this particular group has had it. Not that they’ve been here and talked to us about it but obviously they’ve expressed the interest to staff so I would like to see or propose that we put that in, you know we don’t have anything listed, anything in the CIP for 2017 or 2018 except for picnic benches and picnic tables and trees so I would like to see that item added in for one of those two years. Kelly: I’d have a tough time with that as tennis use is going down. Why are we building tennis courts? Especially if we’re feeling that we can’t add lights where use is going up, I can’t see why we’d be adding something where use is going down, at this point. 14 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Scharfenberg: Well the only reason I say that is again because you’ve had people expressed an interest for something like that and just because they’re not here, like the CAA is, you know expressing that interest, you can also do other things with tennis courts. You could put up a basketball ball hoop. Is there a basketball? Hoffman: At Roundhouse Park that’s what’s…there’s a pad graded for the double tennis court and then there’s a basketball, a 50 by 50 basketball there now. Scharfenberg: Oh there is there now, okay. I didn’t think that there was, okay. Hoffman: …and what the neighbors said, we met there in a cul-de-sac just behind the park is that during the summer they’re just looking for things that their kids can bike to and tennis was mentioned as one of the things… Thunberg: I think we talked about this in one of the earlier meetings but just for my own benefit, do we, I thought something was said earlier on that from tennis courts we’ve tried to limit the amount that we’ve done just because of the maintenance is so high or if it’s, can you refresh my memory? Hoffman: Sure. The Chanhassen park system used to have, the Chanhassen park plan had a tennis court in every park in the city so every small park that you had, every neighborhood park had a tennis court because they were designed in the 70’s when tennis courts were a big deal. So one of the first things we did in the 80’s was to eliminate those off of the park master plans and so we said you know we’ve got to get these tennis courts, we can’t have this many tennis courts. You still have to have tennis courts but you can drive or go to a regional park facility. And so the ones that are still on the master plans, the neighborhood west of Lake Minnewashta is completely isolated and so when you’re out there talking to them, that’s their first feeling is that they’re isolated from the community. They appreciate the trail on Minnewashta Parkway. They appreciate Roundhouse Park but you know their kids aren’t going to bike across Highway 7 to get to a tennis court and so that’s what they’re saying is, this is a more regional facility. It serve this whole neighborhood and to still have a tennis court in that plan makes sense. North Lotus Lake Park is another one where there’s a tennis court there because it’s a park, a large neighborhood park very similar to Roundhouse where it’s isolated. It’s up in the north corner and so Bandimere Park still have a tennis court plan and Roundhouse has a tennis court plan. That’s it for tennis courts in the city. And then you have the ones at City Center Park, South Lotus, some at Meadow Green. One at Lake Ann so there’s a few scattered around and so that’s the overall master plan for tennis courts. There’s been a lot, probably a dozen taken out. Ryan: I have two other concerns in terms of the plan here for 2014 is the playground phase II for both Roundhouse and Sugarbush. When you met at Roundhouse did they ask, specifically ask for the younger? Hoffman: Not as a part of that. It wasn’t a part of the conversation of that. You know we were out there for 15 minutes. Ryan: Okay. Hoffman: It didn’t come up that evening. Ryan: Okay. Just because, and this is in my wheelhouse with young children, you know $25,000 for young, for the young playgrounds, you don’t typically have 2 year olds playing on playgrounds and they’re designed for 2 to 5 year olds. The parents are holding them anyways and then once they get to the 15 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 3 and 4, they typically go and use the larger kids playgrounds and you know the little kids that you’re designing this equipment for, like teeter totters, those little rocker animal things that they can do independently but you know I go to Lake Ann quite a bit and a number of the other parks that have you know in various cities that have the 2 to 5 year old equipment and the adult, or the older kids equipment and all the kids are on the older kid equipment so I know young parents and families like to have something that a 2 year old or a 3 year old could use, but I don’t think that it’s worth an investment of $25,000. I think that there are little kid equipment, like I said teeter totters or rocking horses that could accommodate the young children while the 3, 4, 5 play on the big kid equipment so I don’t know if it’s something that you could look into. The price of you know some smaller equipment for the little kids but I think you can, we could cut back the $25,000 fairly considerably. Kelly: So I think what you’re hearing, what I’m hearing from you Elise is that with the use that probably we would not get we could put less things there but certain items for younger children? Ryan: Yes. Kelly: And Todd, could we do something like that for like $10,000? Hoffman: Sure. What’s going to happen is it’s going to be pretty small and some parents are going to say well why did you even bother with the 10 grand so you want to be careful of that as well. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: You can buy, $5,000, $10,000, $15,000, $20,000. It’s just the impact. You know as long as you’re there doing something. These areas are fairly large so there’s an area as big as where we’re sitting and so for $25,000 you either fill it or you put something for $10,000 off to the corner. And so we just want to make sure, these spots have been empty a long time so nobody. Ryan: Well a use might be you know picnic benches, a shelter for families that go to the parks. It’s really hot in the summer. People always meet there for lunch. Have snacks. To have some sort of a shelter or you know something along those lines I think would be better served versus equipment that really gets under used. Hoffman: Yeah, you could pay it for a shelter for the $25,000. Ryan: Right. Scharfenberg: And it’s just not Roundhouse and Sugarbush that have these potential additions. I know. Hoffman: Power Hill Park. Scharfenberg: Power Hill Park is another one and I don’t know, I’m drawing a blank on any others but I know Power Hill was as well. Hoffman: There might be one at Sunset Ridge. Scharfenberg: I don’t think at Sunset. They’ve got some little stuff there already. Ryan: So maybe it’s a shelter. Maybe it’s. Kelly: Now isn’t the mayor putting shelters into a lot of these parks? 16 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Hoffman: He’s discussed it but it hasn’t, the council hasn’t talked about the CIP yet so I don’t know if that will come up or not. Kelly: Okay so that, because they were going to use an alternate fund to do that was my understanding. Hoffman: Well it was just a conversation that the mayor had but there’s been nothing forwarded yet. Kelly: Okay. Scharfenberg: And do either of those two parks, either Roundhouse or Sugarbush have any sort of gazebo or shelter? Hoffman: Roundhouse has the round house but it’s not open to the public without reservation and Sugarbush does not. Scharfenberg: Okay. Thunberg: Just to chime in. So we have a 2 year old and from personal experience, he’s loved both so yes, he does try and run to the big kid playground as well but has enjoyed the smaller kid equipment, and just probably a half a dozen times that we’ve been to the park where he’s gone to, or one of the parks with the smaller equipment, there has been families with children every time we’ve been there using it so that might be an oddball occurrence but one or two families each time that we’ve been there using it have also been using it so. Hoffman: The most noticeable one in Chan is at Lake Susan so there’s a 2 to 5 over to the side and then the big one. Kelly: Any further discussion on that? Elise were you thinking taking them out or replacing them with. Ryan: Well I think that if it hasn’t been brought up that you know kids are getting hurt on the bigger equipment or they’re in need of it. You know if it hasn’t been brought to our attention and people are enjoying what they have, I’d rather see that money go towards shelter like you know at the request of the mayor or you know picnic benches and smaller equipment to reduce the $25,000 for other expenditures we may have. Kelly: So would you be in favor of pulling the money out at this point and then seeing what the City Council does this year for shelters? Ryan: I would. Kelly: Okay. Scharfenberg: Well just to go back to the shelter issue. I mean it doesn’t sound, I mean from Todd said that they’re really going to do, necessarily do anything. I mean if you want to put a shelter in, let’s just put it in the CIP. Kelly: Well I don’t think we know if they are or they aren’t is what the answer I got. 17 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Scharfenberg: Well but I’m just saying, if we think that that’s an issue that we want to put them in, I mean we can certainly put it out a couple of years if the mayor says hey, we’re going to build shelters at several of the parks then next year you guys take it out and it’s out of there. Kelly: Okay, other items of discussion? I don’t know if we have to go anywhere with the picnic tables, park benches and trees have been the same for a long time. Anybody have any comments or thoughts or changes on those they want to make? I don’t see any reason to make any changes there. Camden Ridge trail has already been voted on by the City Council. That’s a done deal. Boat, Lake Ann boat access dock and Lake Susan boat access. You know what’s the general feeling? Todd’s made a pretty good case that yeah, it’d be nice for people to have a landing spot and is there a dock on Lake Lotus right now? Hoffman: Yeah, the image that was up there is the dock. Lynch: I think for sure we should get a dock in there because I know from experience you walk down in the water and it’s real slippery. I mean it’s pretty dangerous to get in and out of the boat without a dock so. I mean the one on Lake Lotus is nice you know. It’s just so much easier to get in and out of the boat without having to get into the water and it brings up a whole another issue if you don’t have a dock there. Kelly: Okay, other comments? Carron: I think it’s important for a boat landing to have a dock. Kelly: Okay. Moving on, let’s see we kind of talked about the pedestrian trail, I guess design and planning. Any other comments on that? And the only other thing we haven’t discussed is the City Center Park bandshell for $45,000 for 2014. Any thoughts, questions? Ryan: Could, in the design of the poles, can they be allowed for signage for other events like to hang for Feb Fest or will there be multi-use other than just for coverage in the summertime? Hoffman: We can certainly do that. The view’s going to be a little bit obstructed but you could hang a banner on the back two poles. Carron: What’s the life expectancy of the fabric? Hoffman: Number of years. I don’t know, it’s tough stuff. 10-15 years. The same style that’s popular at pools, zoos, yep. It’s being widely used and it’s come a long ways. Scharfenberg: Todd could I just ask a question with respect to 2017-2018. Any particular reason that any of these projects weren’t spread out or any other projects added in in 2017-2018? Hoffman: The 5 year CIP is focused on 5 years of financing but really the next year is always the most important and what happens with the commission and the council is that it’s constantly changing that front year and then kind of pushing things out. You can use it as a place holder. You know you could start, Bandimere Park has been brought up as a future priority. You could start to put dollars out there and so, dollars are going to come back into there. Some of those projects that are in that last paragraph are going to start to come forward and if something gets a grant or you know there’s a meeting where a bunch of neighborhoods get together and come in and start talking about one of these projects, things are going to get pushed forward and they’re going to come into there so really no reason, specific reason. Scharfenberg: Okay. 18 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Hoffman: Traditionally a lot of things out in those years don’t remain there over time. Kelly: Well my thoughts would be, unless anybody has any other questions, would be to keep everything the way we have it for the picnic tables, trees, the Lake Ann and Lake Susan boat accesses and the pedestrian trail to the Arboretum design and planning knowing that if we get the grant that goes ahead. If we don’t it goes away. My view would be that we move the Roundhouse Park and Sugarbush Park to 2016 and make that a shelter. That we remain with the City Center Park bandshell and be able to add signage somehow if that’s feasible. And then we’ve got the Bandimere Community Park expansion in 2016. Brent would like it seen moved to 2015, which again that, we could move that around. I don’t see a big deal with that either way. And then the $150,000 for the County Road 61 trail improvements and the Bluff Creek Drive trail improvements. Those timeframes are kind of dictated to us so we really don’t have any say and of course the $500,000 could be moved to 2016 but we’ll know more next year. So then I would like to see lights added at least at Lake Susan for $150,000 or Bandimere for $250,000 because we’re going to have to do some infrastructure if we do Bandimere right away because how long do we want to wait on lights? And then the other question would be, do we want to add in tennis courts over at Roundhouse for $80,000 and where we want to move that in if we did. So that’s kind of my viewpoint. Carron: What for $80,000 at Roundhouse? Kelly: $80,000 would be the tennis courts if we wanted to add those in over at Roundhouse. Echternacht: I personally would like to see the lighting go to Bandimere. Invest in Bandimere rather than into Lake Susan. And were you looking at 15 on that? 2015? Kelly: 2015 or 16 depending upon what the final costs will be. Echternacht: I say we put it in in 2015 now and it’s probably going to get moved anyway but. Ryan: And Todd, putting in lights and the plan, the design and planning for Bandimere, would those be separate line items? Hoffman: Separate line items? Ryan: For budgeted purposes or could you do like a Bandimere, you know put everything under Bandimere and have it be, the planning and the. Hoffman: Oh sure you could. Ryan: Okay. And then, because I know you wanted to put Brent the $25,000 in 2015 but we could move that up to 2014 if we’re moving the playground, or the shelters, if that’s the direction we go, since we’re basically moving $50,000 out, we could move the $25,000 in for the planning and get that started to see how we can best utilize lights for Bandimere. Hoffman: So that would be a master planning process. We would bring somebody in to talk about what are all the improvements going to cost over time and then what will the $250,000 get you in lights? Can we do those 3 fields? How is that going to be accomplished? There’s 6 fields there to light in total and a hockey rink and a tennis court so there’s lots of work left into the future. Echternacht: Yeah, I think the sooner we start that planning, because we have those other fields out there that we’re going to need to look at, I’d like to see it sooner than later. 19 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Hoffman: Yep, and that will give everybody, the public, elected officials, administrative staff, an idea of what we’re talking about for that future long range plan. Ryan: So then I propose that we move the planning up to 2014 to move that along. Carron: With, are we still talking $300,000 in the budget for 2015 for Bandimere for lights? Or $250,000 or is that? I’m just trying to stay on. Kelly: I don’t think we know the final costs because you’ve got to do the infrastructure for lighting of all the areas when you do it. Carron: Do we want to put a placeholder budget out there? Just to kind of let the City Council know this is the direction that we’d like to go. Kelly: I would think you would have to put $300,000 out probably. Carron: That’s what I’m understanding for two ballfields about $300,000. Kelly: Yeah but that, yeah but we’ve got to do, when you go in you’ve got to do electricity for the whole place. You’re not going to go in and do the electricity separately I don’t think. That’d be cheaper to do it that way wouldn’t it Todd? Hoffman: We’re going to have to have an electrical engineer take a look. There’s power at a variety of locations now at Bandimere so even before the road project you could have put lighting on three ballfields. There’s power there and what’s going to happen is you’re going to run that somewhere close to the field. Put in a controller and then you go from there so, there’s going to be different sources. The power for the tennis court and the hockey rinks, that’s all sitting now at the new 101. Highway 101 so that’s going to be coming in from that direction so there’s different sources of power out there. You have a transformer. Have you got that picture? So right now we have a transformer, here I can use the pointer. We’ve got a transformer down in this area that was brought in for the original construction and that could bring power to these fields and now we have a transformer sitting out here ready to bring power into these areas. So if you light the 3 ballfields down on the south end, that’s going to be one component. If you light up to the north there’s going to be a whole another controller or light boxes up in that. Kelly: So we wouldn’t be lighting just 2 fields? You’d do 3 so then we’d have to put $500,000 in the budget? Hoffman: No, I think the estimate was closer to $300,000 to do those 3. $250,000 to $300,000 because they’re smaller and they’re all together and so it’s less. $250,000 to $300,000 and I think you can light those 3 fields at Bandimere. What we’re talking about is likely a Muscal light system and so it’s pre-fab in their factory in Iowa. It’s designed before it even gets to the field. It’s all set. The light standards are created. They come up here. You pour a concrete footing and then they slip the light standard on the top and it’s ready to go so it’s pre-wired and that’s the kind of system that I envision out here. Lake Ann is a much different system. It’s like a GE system where it’s much larger poles. Bigger lighting system. Little bit more expensive. Longer term. Those lights at Lake Ann should last 100 years. Probably be some re- wiring to do but these lights, Muscal lighting is another, a different kind of a system. Carron: So I guess what I’d like to do is, if we do the, if we move the $25,000 for the Bandimere design and planning up to 2014, I’m all for that. I would like to throw a place holder in 2016 let’s call. 2015’s a pretty big year as is. 2016 for $300,000 for lighting at Bandimere. And we can revisit this going forward 20 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 but I guess my biggest thing is that, so we can let the council know which direction we’re going in and kind of keep this on the radar. Thunberg: I guess with that proposal, without taking Lake Susan off, like putting a place holder out there that’s 3 years from now so I guess, I don’t know if we know projections of demand of the fields and the growth you’ve seen in the programs but if we feel like what, if we have those projections that we’re going to continue to see increased demand that in 3 to 5 years out we’re going to need Bandimere and that would kind of solve all of the issues or if in 3 to 5 years we’re going to need Bandimere lit and Lake Susan lit to be able to have a place for everybody, then I still putting it in 2016 is 3 years from now and maybe by that time we’re going to be wanting to light Lake Susan as well so I would still, if that’s the case and the demand is there I still would say is 2014 or 2015 something where we’d still look at Lake Susan. Hoffman: I think we’re spending the million dollar reserve. Kelly: Well I’m in favor of Lake Susan because I think it will happen faster and it will get used and our youth will get use out of it with the growth and that’s my belief right now. So does somebody want to put a question together and add everything in together? Echternacht: I still have a question on Lake Susan and Bandimere. I mean spending $150,000 at Lake Susan, I’d much rather spend that same you know, $200,000 for two fields maybe at Bandimere versus $150,000 for Lake Susan and do it now rather than further out. Kelly: So, yeah that adds another question. If the cost of Lake Susan is $200,000, how are we getting down to $200,000 for two fields over at Bandimere? Hoffman: Again these are all estimates until we get an actual hard cost together and so, we’ve had cost estimates on these ballfield lightings for 10 or 15 years and so they fluctuate all over. When you combine fields, you’ve got to buy a controller. You’ve got to have access. You know it’s $25,000 to run power. It doesn’t matter if it’s for 1 field or 3 fields so you pay that up front. Then you have to have a controller and you’ve got to buy a controller no matter if it’s 1 field or 2 fields so anytime at Bandimere you’re going to get more bang for your buck if you do 2 or 3 or even more fields. Lake Susan’s a single field so you’re going to light one field. It’s going to be taller. The lights are going to be taller because they’re baseball lights but it’s going to be similar to the baseball field at Bandimere so, you’re still going to spend those dollars you know just about fairly equal at Bandimere if you light the baseball field but where are you going to get cheaper field lighting is at, what are the fields? 1 and 3 so 2 is a baseball field. 1 and 3 you’re going to light those for much less expensive because Field 2, the baseball field’s already paid to run the power up. It’s already paid for the controller. Now it’s just light standards and hooking them up. If you guys want a lighting baseball study you can table this again and we can bring in the experts next meeting and you can talk baseball field lighting for an hour. Kelly: Why don’t we do that. Hoffman: Sure can. Kelly: I think we should. Boettcher: Well I think because last month I raised the same question and I was in favor of the Bandimere because if that’s where everything’s going to go, just trying to read the tea leaves, Jerry put some input in. Todd did. I would favor that too. You’ve got more there. There’s more happening at Bandimere. Not to ignore Lake Susan. You can still do games there. Day games or whatever but if this 21 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 is where things are going to go, you know even as a team do I want to go here where there’s 4 fields or 5 fields or do I want to get relegated here where there’s one? I mean if you have a big tournament, if you have a 3 day weekend or whatever, a bunch of games going on but I agree too. You know we’re trying to throw numbers out here and we don’t know where to stick the tail. You know we need somebody that has the information that can tell us, this is what it’s going to cost. Here’s what you’re looking at. That type of thing. I think we should have staff or the experts, the electrical engineers or somebody give us some input so, give us better direction. Hoffman: Yeah we’d have a lighting consultant come in that sells this and obviously you’re not buying from them so they’re going to tell you that night so they’re going to tell you what it’s going to cost at Susan and they’ll run those dollars and they’ll be glad to come out and talk to you about those lighting fixtures, or lighting numbers and then all of the other items that you’ve talked about tonight, we can bring back some firmer numbers on those and, you know capital budgeting is, there’s a couple of ways to go about it. It’s just set priorities and then say okay staff, these are our priorities. Go find the numbers. Give us the numbers and, or you can talk about the numbers all day long and often times we get stuck in that and what I would encourage you to do as a commission is think just as much about what priorities are out there. You have a million and a half dollars to invest and you have, you want a balanced system and what are those priorities and we often talk about what we hear but then it’s also your job as a commission to represent those that you don’t hear from and that’s really a job of a commission. Sometimes people will step to this microphone or they come to, they send us an email and sometimes we’ll react to that, but you know other times you also have to kind of get a feel, talking as a parent or talking as a member of the community and kind of you know it’s that sixth sense when you’re out there taking a look. What’s going on in the parks and we don’t hear from people all that often and it’s really quite enlightening and fun to hear from people when you’re out at National Night Out or you’re out on your tours because you know they just bring things up that you really haven’t thought about in quite some time. We know people, somebody wants just about everything that’s on your CIP list and it’s really your job to prioritize what should that be and then make that recommendation to the council because they’re looking for you for that advice. They’re one step farther removed. You know you do this every month. They do parks and recreation a couple of times a year so. Kelly: So Todd when does the City Council have their CIP meeting? Hoffman: Most likely in September-October. They’re not going to start until October this year. Kelly: Okay, so we could have one more meeting without finishing the CIP and bringing in a lighting expert? Hoffman: You could. Finance is going to be looking for a CIP and so. Kelly: Well here’s what I’d like to do is, I’d like to leave the picnic tables and trees and Camden Ridge and the Lake Ann, Lake Susan, pedestrian trail as it is. I think the Nature Reserve as it is. Move Roundhouse Park and Sugarbush to 2016 and instead of playgrounds make them shelters. Leave the park bandshell in there for this year. Move the Bandimere design into 2014 and then I’d like to throw in $150,000 to $300,000 lights. Ballpark lights. Hoffman: In 2014. Kelly: In 2014. Scharfenberg: Why 2014? I mean I understand moving it all up that fast. And we’re not going to vote on it now. We certainly can put a place holder for it somewhere. 22 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Kelly: Well are we going to put it 3 years out and then why aren’t we doing one field next year? So this is, what we’re trying to do is get the City Council to talk about it. Scharfenberg: Oh I understand that. Kelly: And if we put it out 3 years it’s not a discussion item. Scharfenberg: Well you can have a discussion with them at anytime about this but. Kelly: Right but it’s not on their radar for the immediate future and from what I understand there’s needs now. Whether we do Bandimere or whether we do Lake Susan, there are needs. Scharfenberg: Well I understand there are needs but… Kelly: And we haven’t voted on it so we can look at it and discuss it some more next meeting. And then leave 2015 as it is. That would leave us with 2016 with the $10,000, the $15,000, the $25,000 and the $25,000 if I’m correct. And then we still have just the $25,000 in each 2017 and 2018. Ryan: Well I’d like to get a sense before we put the place holder regardless of the year of $150,000 to $300,000 of you know where everybody’s at on the commission on does it make more sense again regardless of the cost where we’d like to have lights because what I’m understanding is, from a couple of the people that have spoken that it seems that when we’re going to build out, again not talking about year specific is that Bandimere seems to be the place that we want to go because of the ability to light for both baseball and softball fields. The infrastructure be it parking lots and accessibility. You know we can do lights tomorrow if we need to regardless of it’s Susan or Bandimere so you know if we’re going to put a number in and you know whether it’s 2014 or 2015, I think we should come to an understanding where is the place that we want to make that investment? Is it Lake Susan or is it going to be Bandimere for a little more money? Kelly: Well I think that’s why we’re having the selling contractor for lights come in next time so we can have numbers and discuss it with a little more knowledge. We’re not voting on this tonight. Ryan: Well we’re trying to get to the bottom of the, where we want to be at the CIP. That’s what we’re trying to figure out. Kelly: Right, we’re setting up something that will be presented to us next meeting and then we won’t be voting until next meeting. Ryan: Right but numbers fluctuate. I think what I’m trying to say is let’s get an understanding on where do we feel that lights are going to be best served. Regardless of price. I mean we know the range. I mean we know the range. Does it make more sense to make the investment in Bandimere or does it make more sense to make the investment at Lake Susan? Kelly: That regardless of price is a hard thing for me because we also want to say, you know we don’t want to spend all our money. We want to have some money left over in the rainy day fund. Ryan: What’s the difference of me saying regardless of money and you saying put a place holder in between $150,000 and $300,000? What I’m trying to get to the bottom of, where do we think it makes more sense to have lights? 23 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Kelly: And that’s what we’re going to find out next meeting where we think where it would make more sense. Scharfenberg: Elise are you just asking for kind of a straw poll at this point from people? Ryan: Right. Scharfenberg: Kind of where they sit. I think I understand from what everybody has said tonight where people feel but is that all you’re just asking for? Ryan: Right. I mean yes. Scharfenberg: Could I make a motion that at least we have kind of a silent vote as to the commissioners. Not a silent vote but a raise of hands of where they would prefer lighting at the two fields, and that’s all I’m asking for is just a raise of hands. Kelly: I don’t think we need a motion for that. Would people like to, I mean you know where I’m at. I think, I don’t think Bandimere will happen for $300,000 in the near future. I’m all for Lake Susan and we also have a partner for a funding source so you know where I’m at, Lake Susan. Boettcher: Why wouldn’t anybody partner at Bandimere? With CAA was that just, I didn’t understand what Todd said last, Todd Neils. Was that strictly Lake Susan where they were going to participate? Kelly: That was strictly Lake Susan. Boettcher: What was the reason for just Susan? Kelly: Well they need lights and they figured that made sense. Scharfenberg: Jim my impression from listening to Todd, this is just my impression from listening to Todd, they would be in if you built at Lake Susan or if you built at Bandimere for whatever amount of money they’re willing to raise. Boettcher: Right. Scharfenberg: I think they’re willing to come in as a partner. That’s just my impression. Boettcher: Yeah, and that would make sense. I don’t know why they would pick and choose like that. Kelly: I didn’t hear that though so. Boettcher: And like I said I don’t remember what he said exactly but. I mean you already know where I want to go. I want to go Bandimere but if you want to do a straw poll and see what everybody says. I agree with what Elise says. You know again I don’t like working with something I don’t have the real number but I think we do need to have a feel of where everybody wants to go. If the people are here next week and the experts and they’re talking we can already know in our mind this is what we’re looking at. Bandimere versus Susan. So if you want to do secret ballots. Hoffman: Chair Kelly I want, even though the council’s not going to talk about the CIP, the finance department has this on a calendar and they’re going to want these numbers so if we could forward a recommendation so I can submit those to the finance department. You don’t have to include baseball 24 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 lights. You can add those in. You could add them now and modify them but it’d be nice to have a majority of this. I think we have everything pretty well settled except for that one item and then we can modify that. Kelly: Let’s put in baseball lights for $250,000 and modify it next meeting. Hoffman: Sure. Kelly: Is that agreeable? Scharfenberg: I’m okay with that. Echternacht: Sure. Hoffman: Okay, that will take a motion and a vote but. For 2014 right? Kelly: 2014. Hoffman: Okay. Carron: You looking for a motion Chair? I will make a motion to approve the CIP for 2014 to 2018 that was given to us by staff with the changes of Roundhouse Park and Sugarbush Park put off to 2016 for shelters, Bandimere Community expansion design for $25,000 be moved forward to 2014. And ballpark lights at a soon designated destination be put in at 2014 for $250,000. Kelly: Is there a second? Echternacht: I second it. Kelly: There’s been a motion and a second. Carron moved, Echternacht seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends the City Council approve the 2014 through 2018 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program presented by staff with the following changes: moving $25,000 each for Roundhouse Park and Sugarbush Park picnic shelters to 2016; moving Bandimere Community Park expansion design and planning cost of $25,000 to 2014; and the addition of $250,000 in 2014 for ballfield lighting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. Hoffman: We’ll have our baseball meeting next month. That’ll be fun. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: KLEINBANK SUMMER CONCERT SERIES EVALUATION. th Johnson: Good evening Chair Kelly and commissioners. On August 8 we wrapped our summer concert series sponsored by the KleinBank of Chanhassen. We had 8 performances throughout the summer. Each one was an hour long. They’re all free to the public. We had 6 for older adults and we had 2 for the children. Seven evening and then the one daytime concert. This summer we had some really good numbers. You know I think part of it is the weather that we had earlier in the summer, it was just so beautiful out and low humidity. We averaged about 400 people per show which makes it one of our most successful in recent years. I’m really starting to build some steam. You know I was excited to hear that the bandshell could progress in the next couple years and really continue to kind of grow this event. 25 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Another highlight, you know like I said we had the one kids concert in the evening. We just had our biggest kids concert we’ve ever had. The park was packed. We were able to kind of accommodate to some of those, maybe some families who aren’t able to make it to all the daytime shows so it was kind of a nice nitch that we filled. Had the Grammy Award winning Okee Dokee Brothers for that concert and we also had one of our biggest ones ever with the Daisy Dillman Band. I think a few people were able to make it out but I think we had about 1,000 people down in the park so it was really fun to see. You could hardly walk through the place so we were real excited about the line up this year. You know we had some of those bigger names and it really kind of reflected on our crowd you know size of that and you know in turn I think we really pleased KleinBank too. They like to see those big numbers. They were gracious enough to sponsor the event again for $2,000 this year which kind of helps keep down some expenses and it kind of gets some of those bigger bands in. Each concert we sold kind of the little mini concession stand there. Very successful this year. I think we had over $500 in sales which was more than double what we had last year so that fresh popcorn seems to be popular along with the cotton candy machine that we had out for the one children’s concert was fun. So yeah, I mean it was a great series. Already looking forward to next year. Getting people already emailing me this week, looking to try to get on my radar so it’s a great program. Really look forward to continue to build it and kind of continue in the future. On the bottom of the eval there, or the report you’ll see a few suggestions for 2014. You know one of them is kind of continue to contract with the local bands with the large fan bases like the Daisy Dillman. I think they come from the Lake Minnetonka area. Brought a lot of people to that one and continue to have those two interaction kids concert and keep the one at least in the evening. On the bottom there you’ll see the revenue and expense report. The revenues include the sponsorship as well as the concession sales. The expenses. The performance fees or the fees paid to the entertainment and then the program supplies that we use for promotional items as well as our items for the concession stand that we sold. So you’ll see the revenues and expenses and the total balance from the program and this is funded through our 1600 budget for park and rec programs. Be happy to answer any questions or recommendations from anybody. Echternacht: Just a question. Is it a possibility of maybe seeking a second sponsor to help with the cost? Johnson: Yeah, I think we’ve had other businesses involved. KleinBank is the title sponsor you know and they’ve been around for a long time and been a great partner but yeah, we could always look for other sponsors too. Kelly: Any other questions or thoughts for Mitch? I know I was able to make two of them this year and it was a fantastic time both nights. I think you guys did a great job. Thank you. Johnson: Thanks. FALL ADULT SOFTBALL LEAGUE REPORT. Kelly: Jerry, fall softball league. Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly. The City of Chanhassen is offering a men’s fall league again this year. nd We are playing on Thursday nights. That began last Thursday night, the 22. We have 8 teams total in that, on that night. Little bit more relaxed with that. We’ve had some hot weather here last week and this week here so it’s been nice that we haven’t had any rainout’s so that’s been a plus so far. So teams are playing double headers out at Lake Ann. It started last week and will go until the tail end of September and rainout’s will be played the first week in October if needed at this point so no rainout’s yet so the teams do enjoy playing some extra games for that. It looks like it’s been a great year so far and will go until about the tail end of September with that program so. 26 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Kelly: So how does the 8 teams compare to last year? Ruegemer: We’re actually down from last year. We had a Tuesday night league as well. I had some teams interested in that again this year and some teams registered. Some teams pulled out and then I had some late teams. Had everybody stayed we could have had another league on Tuesday night but just the timing wasn’t right so I had about 3 confirmed teams for Tuesday night league so I cancelled the night for this year. Kelly: Any questions for Jerry? Thank you Jerry. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. RILEY RIDGE PARK PLAYGROUND INSTALLATION. Kelly: Todd, I assume you’re talking on that? Hoffman: Commissioners are. Kelly: Oh, who’s talking? I’m sorry. Boettcher: Those of us that were there and not on vacation. No, it was a good time working with staff. Working with I think on Friday when I was there, were there 6 neighbors Todd I believe? I mean everybody just jumped in when the trucks are coming and keep coming with the pea gravel and guys are out there with shovels and racks and stuff. It was really, you got a real sense of community spirit and it wasn’t terribly hot but it was really pretty enjoyable and then about the end of the day you started looking at it and you thought were you ever going to get this thing filled up? You know we’re trying to level it out and for Saturday when I think you were there on Saturday when they brought the mulch and stuff in but constructing it, putting some of the stuff up was pretty cool too. I mean just the guy that was there from the playground supplier, equipment supplier, you know he was kind of barking orders at us and we’re trying not to drill through our fingers or saw through any toes or anything so, but it was a good time. It really was. Just to have the feeling of the community out there, the neighborhood. Carron: Yeah I think Saturday when I was there, the cool thing about this set up is that it gets everyone out. Gets you know everyone meeting each other in a new area and everyone was introducing themselves and I had to tell numerous people many times that I wasn’t living in the neighborhood. I was just there for fun but no it was great. Everyone was you know working hard. I mean we had it done by noon basically so that the Saturday afternoon group didn’t really have anything to do but it was pretty cool. Everyone was talking. Everyone was kind of laughing and you know like move in mishaps and decks that are building on so it was a good atmosphere. It was a good way for everyone to get involved and you’ll have a good time when we get going on your area too so it was a pretty good success. And good company that put it all together. I mean those guys were on it and they did a really good job. Scharfenberg: And I was there and appreciate the work that Brent was doing. He was sewing fabric that day but you know it was interesting to tell the story to these residents that were there, that that park almost never got built and they found that very hard to believe that they would have had that development but for several commissioners on this commission that voted for that project because I mean as I shared with Todd and Todd recalled that it was a 3 to 2 vote to build that particular park. Not everybody wanted that park built so they found it hard to believe that they would have been in that neighborhood potentially without that park and it is, you know if you go by there now, I’ve ridden by it several times, that is a wonderful park. It’s going to draw people not only from Springfield who have their own little private park, but you know down the road. People are going to come from North Bay and that are going to come 27 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 and enjoy that park and you know kudos to the neighborhood for getting it done and for Jim and for Brent and Todd and the rest of the staff that was out there putting it together because it looks really nice. Hoffman: And you’ll have a chance to show it off on the tour. It’s one of our last stops… Kelly: Thank you to all the commissioners who were able to make it out there. Wish I could have been there with you Jim. THREE RIVERS PARK DISTRICT/HENNEPIN COUNTY BIKE PLAN. Kelly: Todd, do you want to speak to that? Hoffman: I sure can. The email came and then we spread it around to all the commissioners so if somebody wants to jump on that board, that planning board you can take that route or you can take kind of the middle of the road where they’re going to give us highly involved email updates or a low level of involvement where they’ll just send you emails on key decision points or key developments in their proposal so that’s up to the commission to decide and we’ll let them know. Kelly: Any questions? Administrative Packet. Todd, anything specific? I’m sorry, did you have something you wanted to say? Echternacht: Well I think a decision, do we have to let Hennepin County know if we’re interested in doing it? Hoffman: Yeah, one of the three you should let us know so if somebody wants to jump on the board or you take the middle of the road or the lower level. Echternacht: Well in my email I said I would volunteer to be on that committee if no one else that does a lot of biking would like to be on it. I would volunteer to do that or at the minimum I think we should at least be in the middle of the road and be kept up on everything but. Kelly: Sign Rick up. Echternacht: I’ll be glad to do it if no one else. Hoffman: Alright Rick, okay. Kelly: Thank you Rick. Hoffman: Thank you. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Kelly: Todd, anything specific on the Administrative Section that you need to point out to us? Hoffman: Nothing other than we’re back in the business of bringing in park dedication fees which I think is a good thing and just wanted to let you know through communication on those different developments, where those dollars are at and then I think it’s always fun to read. Again we’re talking about hearing from the citizens and we hear from a lot of pavilion users and they have a lot of good things to say about our facilities so appreciate Jerry reaching out to those folks. And then you have the Reach for Resources in there which is our, you know working with our folks for inclusions and disabilities. 28 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Carron: Jerry one question. Picnic evaluations, there seems to be a toss up here between really clean bathrooms and not so clean bathrooms, and is there a schedule or when these get signed up do people go out and look at it before. Ruegemer: They’re cleaned every day. Carron: Really, okay. Ruegemer: 7 days a week. All the bathrooms at Lake Ann and Lake Susan. Hoffman: And the building. Ruegemer: Yeah, and the building so if you know they need power washing, they power wash and the garbage is picked up 7 days a week. The bathrooms are picked up and restocked. Hoffman: The portable toilets are on a twice a week schedule. Ruegemer: Twice a week schedule. Carron: Yep. Okay. Hoffman: And what you’re hearing in there Brent is that the interior bathrooms at our park building are never what some people would expect when you’re going to walk into a public park building and so that’s what you’re hearing them say. Carron: What about for weddings? Locking them up earlier, I saw that. Ruegemer: You know it, what happens in the summertime is that either the concession staff or lifeguards close the bathrooms at 7:00 when we’re done for the night. There are portable restrooms that are there. On average you know picnics don’t normally go much past that 7:00 or 8:00 timeframe. There are some cases where they do go later. If they would like to stay later a lot of times they’ll ask us for a key or we’ll offer a key up. That was like one of the times where they didn’t have a key and you know, we certainly could have, I certainly could have made that phone call and offered a key up. You know a lot of times they give you a wide range of time. We want it from 9:00 in the morning til 9:00 at night and what does that mean but, so I mean those cases do happen. Now that the lifeguard and concession staff are done for the season, then that’s an automatic call. 3-4 days in advance you want a key, come and grab a key. If not there are portable restrooms there so there are bathroom facilities there so they weren’t going in the bushes and that sort of thing so. Kelly: Jerry I noticed on a couple of them they said that, is there a board out there that says what group is supposed to be using it because a few groups had to kick somebody off and they weren’t very happy about it. Ruegemer: Yep there are kind of menu or identification signs as to who has the reservations at the specific picnic pavilions and shelters. There are cases that some people may not get there until 1:00-2:00 in the afternoon for their deal. I always advise people to bring their permits with them to kind of prove to the folks that they do have, they have paid for that reservation shelter and if they refuse to leave then my advice is to just call the sheriff department and they can take care of it. 29 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Kelly: Recommendation for weddings out there. I’ve been to a few outdoor weddings where they’ve hired, where they brought in their own executive Porta Potties and those are really nice. I’d make those recommendations to the people that are having weddings. That will take care of some of the issues that they feel they have. Ruegemer: And I’m completely transparent. If there’s folks that are booking the Klingelhutz Pavilion that I do make sure that they know that those are portable bathrooms up there. I’m not the one who wants to ruin their wedding because they have to go into a portable bathroom so there are, I make that completely known at the time before they book. If there are cases where I need to do a special cleaning on the weekend, I will call our bathroom carrier and get folks out there to have, to make sure that the bathrooms are clean for their special day. Kelly: The other nice thing I noticed is every time there was a problem they called, they said the City responded immediately. That’s, congratulations on that. That’s nice to hear. Echternacht: Jerry is there, obviously there’s a contract they sign for the, I would imagine, for the use of that space. Is there anything that you could place on there that the bathrooms will be closed at approximately 7:00 p.m.? If you wish to keep them open you need to request a key 24-48 hours in advance so that you, could that be right on that form? Ruegemer: Yeah, we also have some additional picnic information that we include with the reservation permit so we can certainly add that information onto that form. Scharfenberg: Jerry a question for you. This has something totally opposite of bathrooms and bathroom facilities. Was it this year that we started charging CAA and, at the ballfields for doing additional work. Putting up fences and some of that extra. Was that, did that go into place this year? Ruegemer: That was discussed but not executed. Scharfenberg: Okay. And where are we on that? Ruegemer: We’re just the good city that keeps providing that high level of service to our local organizations. Scharfenberg: Okay. So what, that just kind of fell on deaf ears or? Hoffman: No, it was not supported as a part of last year’s budget process by the council. Scharfenberg: Okay. Ruegemer: They are still, CAA is paying for additional bathrooms, that sort of thing for the tournament that they held in July and that sort of thing but, so they’re paying for those hard costs. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Any other questions or comments for Todd or Jerry or Mitch? th Boettcher: You want to cover anything about this September 11 joint tour? Any additional info. Hoffman: Some of you have participated before so it’s a good opportunity to get out and meet other commissioners and then what’s going to be most exciting about this is really to see that whole Bandimere 30 Park and Recreation Commission – August 27, 2013 Park project so you get an up close in-depth look at what’s going on down there at Bandimere. It’s pretty eye opening on what’s going to transform on that highway and that facility so I encourage you to attend. Meet here and it’s a 2 hour tour and some of you participated, I think it was 2 years ago. Carron: Went last year too. Hoffman: Last year as well, yeah. Great, thanks. Carron moved, Scharfenberg seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 31