Loading...
1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 24, 1998 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Fred Berg, Ron Roeser, Jim Manders, Mike Howe, Rod Franks and Jane Meger MEMBERS ABSENT: STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer and Patty Dexter, Recreation Supervisors; and Tom Knowles, Facility Director APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Todd Hoffman added a comprehensive discussion under Administrative Repons (B) Comprehensive Plan, Recreation Section workshop. (C), discussion of the Bluff Creek Watershed District and the Bluff Creek Overlay Zone. Chairwoman Lash added under Commission Presentations the City Council meeting dated February 23, 1998. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: PROPOSAL TO CREATE A VIDEO LIBRARY AT THE RECREATION CENTER~ BRYAN MCGOVERN. Hoffman: I'll go ahead and introduce. This is Bryan McGovern and we talked on the phone about the possibility and then he's also sent a letter about a video library. I wanted to note for the commission, I received the CAA newsletter last week as well. In there it talked about, they were seeking a video coordinator type of position so it seems to be something that a variety of groups are looking for. Bryan McGovern: ...I'm Bryan McGovern. I live in Chanhassen. I'm also a Board member on the Chaska...and again if you're not familiar with that, the Hockey Association encompasses both Chanhassen and Chaska. 50% of the players are... Anyway, one thing that we talked about is a way to kind of improve our community and one of the things that one of the dad's came up with was to create a video library .... video libraries, we would utilize, it would be utilized by the community athletic association. So what we would like to do is, we're proposing the creation of this project... The implementation, what we'd like to see happen is, talked more about the Chanhassen Rec Center. What we would like to do is have the...whatever we can do there. We would like to see if the Chanhassen Rec Center could be the facility to check in and check out some of these video tapes and provide viewing equipment and facilities for viewing these tapes. ...at the Rec Center you have the conference room...for viewing videos. You have the big screen TV in there... One thing about this room is, it actually works really well for one team to view videos. You've got 18 chairs in there. There's typically 15 to 17 kids on a team, plus a coach, okay .... one supervised team so it's not really set up...really asking for a coach... One of Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 the other things about this video library, if there's a larger...or viewing audience, we could utilize one of the other rooms in the Rec Center. I'm not sure if you have a bigger video, or do you have this? I wasn't sure if you had this...but then at that point, say for example a Hockey Association could have a group or a few teams... One thing what we'd like to then do is have the Rec Center coordinate the room and... As far as the cost to do something like this... Maybe a place to store tapes...conference room there's some cabinets... As far as the tapes go, what we're proposing is that...purchase any of the tapes. It's up to each individual association to purchase their tapes and what we do is we either store... The Hockey Association, we have about 30 tapes to cover basically almost all aspects of hockey. Power skating. Shooting. Having fun .... The other real key one that we're seeing now is, you may be aware there's been some injuries in the last few years with hockey players. There's actually some tapes out there that show kids how to fall. How to turn so when you hit the boards, you know they minimize the... That's kind of where I see using the larger room. The hockey association viewers implement this, what we would do is we have it required that each...schedule a Saturday morning viewing time...not required but it would be kind of a neat thing to have a Saturday morning get together, and depending on what the activity is, if it's hockey, maybe just somebody to come and speak... So I guess what I would suggest, kind of take this a little bit slow and if we could purchase a container at the Rec Center where we can store the videos and maybe start out with... For us, the hockey association, we're basically done for the year. But we're trying to get a jump on next year...check in and check out procedure for the tapes... And again, the hockey association would purchase our own... Do you have any questions? Berg: I have a couple. What kind of, do you have any idea of predicted usage in terms of time? Bryan McGovern: I would say with the...I would say that everybody would view that one. One other thing that I guess I would propose, and what we do in the hockey association. We have a newsletter that comes out. One thing we do is scheduling...all the rooms get scheduled through the secretary, which is myself, so that all the requests come to me. I ask them all the questions. I have the forms and then I fax it to the community center. As far as usage, that's kind ora hard question. Hoffman: You would hope it would see great use. Bryan McGovern: Yeah, we would hope it would see great use. That's why, we're not asking to invest...use in the beginning of the season. One of the other things that could happen with this too is, it may work out well for viewing game tapes... Berg: What age level are we talking about? Bryan McGovern: ... Berg: So it's into high school age? Bryan McGovern: What's that? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Berg: They're into high school age? Bryan McGovem: Actually they'd be done by high school. We're working on trying to extend it past high school into, basically at high school they go into junior varsity... Berg: You're acquainted with the hockey tapes. In that series, are there tapes dealing with things like sportsmanship and the tree value of the game and parents role? And coaching ones too. Bryan McGovem: There are a whole series of coaching ones. The ones that I'm most familiar with at this point are...actually there's a whole group of publications... Ones I was more familiar with is we had a list of 31... Berg: Because I'm concerned about, when I talk about coaching ones, I'm not talking about the X's and O's. I'm talking about what the value of it is that they're doing and that winning the score...what's important. Which leads to my next, last question I promise. Wouldn't it be just as beneficial, particularly for the younger kids, 5 through 12 or 13, wouldn't something like this be just as beneficial to have them check out a tape from a central spot and watch it at home with their parents? Bryan McGovem: Yes but then we have to worry about...tape is out. People would want to check it out for 3 days... I believe one of the other things that we will do. We've been informed that...able to copy these tapes...and I believe if that tums out to the case, that's what we would do... If they're not copy protected or... Berg: I personally would see a value in keeping the numbers much smaller than 16 or 17 kids in a crowded room. I can see 3 or 4 kids in someone's basement with some popcorn and maybe dad there, the coach there or whatever, having a much better feeling for what the video's trying to teach and also when it comes to the point of the emphasis on the sportsmanship and whatever, you can stop at that point and say okay, tell me about that son. Bryan McGovern: Right. The biggest problem was coordination... We do have a number of tapes within the association and the problem is that we have a tough time keeping track of where they're at... Lash: What is our rental policy...? Staff's answer was not picked up by the microphones. Roeser: So if they schedule it two months in advance, they get it for nothing, is that right? Staff:... Lash: ...which quite frankly can translate into loss of revenue for us... I mean say you guys start booking it every Saturday afternoon for a video or you know, whatever...I'm willing to try to see how it works. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Bryan McGovern: Yeah, I would...there isn't enough ice time... Manders: Could you talk to the question of what your experience has been at any other facility in showing these or do you presently do this at the Chaska? Is there a reason that you don't do it there? Bryan McGovern: The only reason...I guess the reason why we... Manders: ...this type of activity at other... Lash: Well I think it's a great idea. Do we have empty cupboards that they could store... I don't know what kind of stuff you have. Roeser: You need a pretty big cupboard if you're starting with 30 hockey... Bryan McGovem: Well actually as far as the 30 goes, and when I go through the list here because we would start out small. You know we have... I suspect to start with we're going to have... Franks: Are you thinking that it's coaches that would be checking it out or would it be parents or kids or who? Bryan McGovern: It would be the coach. Actually it's going to be the team manager... Howe: I think it's a good idea. I don't see we have much to lose and we have Mr. McGovern who's offered to run it and lead it and he's done his homework and as long as Patty at the Rec Center can handle it, I don't have a problem with it at all. Franks: Well that's my next question. Would there be enough staff available, like...to handle checking in and checking out tapes? Staff... Lash: I mean what's it going to be? Once, twice a week you know probably tops. That they'd come and want to check the video, and it's not even leaving the building. I mean basically all they're doing is taking it to the room and then bringing it back. Staff: ...group in the room. They can share the room. The equipment is all set up and if they find the right tape and you know. Lash: How long do these tapes generally last? 4 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Bryan McGovern: ...I don't suspect they would be there for more than, I think it's unrealistic, I kind of suspect what will happen is, as they view these tapes, we'll find that a certain...tapes are real goo& You know we'll probably suggest to the coaches that if they're going to... Meger: So were you thinking then that the parent or the coach would...the reservation at the front desk or would it go up to a... Bryan McGovern: I would prefer...I think actually you would prefer if it went to a central point within the association. Yeah. Because then I know how to fill out...without asking you know, when are you coming and all of those kind... Hoffman: I would recommend that we go ahead and have Patty research some options and bring those proposals or options back to the Commission. Take a look at Option 1 as being just a check-out. Being a video store and when we look at these options I think we have to encompass all of the associations that it touches on. They're going to like that service. They've already referenced it in their spring newsletter, they're looking, seeking out a video coordinator for all of the CAA sports as well. And then Option 2 would be the view in. Take a look at hours. Which hours we could, we would most likely have to limit hours in the evening, our busiest hours are going to be you know 7:00 to 9:00 and perhaps we could allow 5:00 to 7:00 viewing as an option. And then again, cataloging, this is going to be seasonal for a variety of sports, as Mr. McGovern states. They'll watch these, be more likely to watch them early in the season. Both Jerry and I have some experience with National Youth Sports Coaching Association and their tape series. Talking about coaching and skills and skill development and sportsmanship and those type of things. They still use that program to date. A video tends to be very captivating in our society today and that's why it's being used so prevalently. So it's something that might merit some discussion. What are the benefits versus the potential lost income? This could end up, if you take a look at the dollars lost, potential dollars lost, the $4,000.00-$5,000.00 annually to support this kind of a program as a commission and is that something that you think is a value, an offsetting value. Lash: ...watching for half an hour, parents are going to be going to the workout room. Going to aerobics or you know. Who wants to drop their kids off for half hour and turn around and come back, you know... I think it's a great idea and we need to give it a shot. I guess I'm interested in starting out small and seeing how this works and then, not end up putting any dollars in it, from our standpoint. It looks like you pretty much have that covered. We can start out with just storage somehow with what we have and as your tape collection grows and you know, it's necessary to get a case, you know I'd make the suggestion that you guys work with Patty to find something that is within your budget. If that would fit in the room or wherever you know a good place would be for that. And then kind of see where it goes and touch base in 6 months or after we're into another season of some sport and see how things are going... Bryan McGovern: Well, that's what I would propose is to start out slowly... Lash: ...make a motion that you two work together to try and get something set up to get started? Okay. 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Meger: Okay... Howe: Second. Meger moved, Howe seconded to direct staff to work with Bryan McGovern to investigate creating a video library at the Chanhassen Recreation Center. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Hoffman: And bring that back in March, right? Lash: Sure. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Roeser moved, Howe seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meetings dated January 20, 1998 as amended to change "Tim Howe" to "Mike Howe"; and approving January 27, 1998 and February 4, 1998 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. DETERMINE PARK AND TRAIL DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS FOR THE REPLAT OF 39.5 ACRES INTO FOUR LOTS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THREE OFFICE INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGSI LOCATED SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 5~ WEST OF DELL ROAD AND SOUTH OF LAKE DRIVE EAST~ WELSH CONSTRUCTION CORPI CHANHASSEN POINTE BUSINESS CENTER. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: Okay, questions for Todd? Okay, is there a motion? Berg: I'd move to approve. Lash: Is there a second? Roeser: Second. Berg moved, Roeser seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council require full park and trail fee dedication in lieu of land acquisition or trail construction. One-third of the park and trail cash contribution shall be paid contemporaneously with the city's approval of the subdivision. The balance shall be paid at the rate in effect at the time building permits are issued. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ESTABLISH MEETING SCHEDULE~ 1998 NEIGHBORHOOD PARK IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS. 6 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: Have you sent any of this out to the residents? Hoffman: This is in the brochure. Lash: I know I will not be here the 24th. Hoffman: Okay. It was a timing issue. The brochure was out in the street. We felt it was a very important, I wanted to get it to you beforehand but was unable to do that. Howe: ...for staff, do you want us at the 5th? Hoffman: No. That's for staff and the neighborhood. You're certainly welcome, but I feel like I'm, giving you a lot of meetings. Excuse me? Lash: Working us to death? Hoffman: Working you, yes to death, yes. And it is really just part of this entire referendum process. It's exciting but at the same time it's exhausting. Howe: I can make the l0th but I'll be a little bit late. Manders: So everything except the 5th is? Hoffman: Yep. And these are real work session type of presentations. We will have commissioners. Manders: How does the 24th fit in with the other items for that night? ! mean is that just going to push that night out till midnight or what? Hoffman: I hope not. I hope to keep your regular agenda pretty light. Lash: I'll be on... Thank you. Hoffman: And again the alternative was simply to install these improvements with no neighborhood chance or opportunity, and that's not very popular. Lash: Those would be my two favorite ones to be here for too would be...because I wanted to go in on the name of that one. But anyhow, I trust you guys. Hoffman: I attached the contract from Hoisington-Koegler which is, they're acting as the support to the commission and staff. They do not perform a task unless directed by my office. We are Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 attempting to keep their contract in check and really what they're there for is paperwork. The drafting of bidding documents and plans and specifications. Manders: Does your listing of, you know the itemized listing for each of the different parks, you talk about some of the amenities. Does that take into consideration the discussion that we had, I don't remember how far back when we kind of went through the different parks and...kind of itemized what we thought was some of the key features. Hoffman: Yeah, we've got the. Lash: Originally it was the little picnic shelters and just you know. Manders: We kind of bounced around on a few things. Hoffman: What is listed here is the modified versions from the park commission which was included in the referendum. Berg: Is it possible for these meetings to have a price list also so we know what at Curry Farms, whatever it is we decide to do there, what that would cost us. So we can have a running total. Hoffman: The total tab is $495,000.00. We have a guideline for the cost. I was hesitant in including those for residents because say we put $15,000.00 in for an improvement and it really is only going to cost 12. They're going to go, well where's the rest of our $3,000.00 going when potentially we might need that for others so we will give you estimate costs. Berg: If you'd rather not, it's okay too. Hoffman: No, we'll give you actual hard costs. We won't say what was allocated but we'll give you actually estimates and tell you whether or not we're on budget, over budget, under budget. Lash: That isn't something necessarily that would have to be part of the published stuffthat goes out to everybody. If we, just so long as we know budget wise. Hoffman: It will be in your report. Lash: Okay, go over your recommendation or a motion to approve this schedule? Hoffman: Correct. Berg: So moved. Lash: Is there a second? Franks: Second. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Berg moved, Franks seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the 1998 neighborhood park improvement meeting schedule. All voted in favor and the motion carried. LAKE ANN PARK LIFEGUARD AND SWIMMING LESSON PROGRAM~ CONTRACT REVIEW. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item. Manders: Has there been a problem with the contract in the past in terms of follow through? Ruegemer: No. It hasn't. It's been really, to be honest with you, this is the first I've seen the contract since I've been here. It's been more of a gentlemen's agreement. I mean it has worked out but I think why I guess looking at it at this point is just kind of clean up the process a little bit and... And I think Minnetonka would like to see that as well. It dates back to State Statute of the 70's and from Jim Jones and Don Ashworth way back so. Howe: I read it and I was a lifeguard many, many, many, many years ago. And they cover all the ground it looks like to me. When you say clean it up, I mean they talk about different beaches and different towns. I mean you just mean streamlining it more for us? Hoffman: Just the front portion of it. The agreement between the City and Minnetonka. Ruegemer: Yeah. As far as their training manuals that they have. That's really John's area of expertise. How they train which is basically just contracting for the service. I was more interested in cleaning up the contract part of it. From that. Hoffman: As a part of the motion the Council asked that you review hours of operation. The effectiveness of the service. Do you think this is the way to go or do you think contracting with Chaska, District 112 or those type of things? As you tell for yourselves, the program automatically clinked in every year. Lash: Well why don't we check and see. Maybe we can save money if we go through someone else. Is that worth? Hoffman: Probably not for this year. Roeser: Yeah I think what's happened here is we've paid so little attention to it, it's just been running you know and we haven't even thought about it. Lash: It wasn't broken. Roeser: The lifeguards are there when you go to the beach. 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Manders: I guess the question I'd ask about the hours is, I mean there's one other beach at 10:30 but the others start at either 11:00 or noon. Is there necessary coverage in the earlier hours and does that affect the contract? Roeser: I think 10:30 is good though. Manders: Well I don't know, I mean maybe for a few days it would be but how about the majority of the days? Hoffman: Many of the beaches close at 7:00. Lash: How about, June 8th is opening. You know the school year is going longer and longer. How many people would be available? You know school's not out until the 12th. Or say the 15th you know, and each year it's going to be getting pushed back later and later. That's a whole week. You know obviously during that week most people there will be kids who are out of school. It's not parents without their kids or adults... I'm looking at it...back almost a whole week. Franks: And that one point about the hours is that... Lash: Do you know Chaska has, I mean I happen to know because my daughter works there. She works at the clay hole...during the summer so I know they have a program that's contracted out and I don't know, I know she doesn't get paid very much so it's maybe cheaper than... Howe: ...changes we made at Lake Ann and now no fees, maybe we'll get more business this year. I mean there will be more people. Lash: That could be...but I do think that when the school year's over, when you're going to start getting the traffic down there and...during the week especially that you're going to have. Hoffman: We bring them out on weekends every earlier don't we? Ruegemer: No. Lash: ...thinking it was Memorial Day... Ruegemer: It used to be. That was I think probably 4 or 5 years that we've probably quit doing that because it wasn't cost effective. Lash: I'd definitely look at the starting date, and it seems like by the end of the season, people just start petering out. You know by the middle of August they've just kind of had it and don't go anymore. Roeser: When does it end? 10 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Ruegemer: August 30th. Roeser: It really dies once you reach August. Lash: Yeah, and if you start looking at the numbers, I mean it tells you by the 15th of August it's starting to. Roeser: You could save a little by cutting two weeks off. Lash: And if it was a week at the beginning of the season. Hoffman: Unless they don't use any more snow days, right? Ruegemer: I have the schedule upstairs. Manders: Do you have any idea how they charge, because it's kind of...to nit pick on the comers, you're not going to gain much. Ruegemer: Yeah, and that's one of the areas I think that we need improvement. I think John would agree with this. I mean back in the 70's when the agreement was made, is really based on residency. And how many Chanhassen kids, and I believe were within the school district based on a percentage. So that's how our bill is...come to the final number. It's based on a percentage of our residents and...it's kind ora confusing format. Obviously I can't even tell you. Hoffman: They take the total number, total cost of the entire program and then charge you by resident in that district. So they're charging Deephaven, Excelsior, Chanhassen, everybody kind of a percentage by the number of residents in the district. Ruegemer: It's on page 4, item (c), under 5. Per capita basis, the amount of which is to be determined annually for the number of village/city residents living within the school district. Just above contribution of programs and facilities. Franks: Are the kids that are attending the Chaska School District getting in free? Because we're only paying for the kids that are in the Minnetonka District? Heck of a deal. Manders: Is that to say that that charge, irrespective of the hours of coverage. I still don't follow. It sounds like there's a fixed charge so if you were there for two hours, you'd get that same charge unless you were there for 12 hours. Maybe I don't understand that. Do you follow what I'm getting at? Hoffman: That's correct, yeah. Manders: So nit picking the comers doesn't save us anything so we might as well go for as many hours as we can. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Hoffman: Not unless we go to a fixed rate and then your costs may in fact go up. Manders: Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at. How are they arriving at this number. Franks: Well sometimes a handshake is a good deal. Hoffman: They're taking all their costs, salaries, wages, administration. Putting it into one big pool and then charging you by that. Manders: Exactly. So the hours coverage has nothing to do with how much you get charged. Franks: ...going to other vendors to see you know. Hoffman: I don't think you could do any better. We have made the, we have lived by the opinion that we certainly, as an independent agency, could not do any better. It would cost us $60,000.00 to run Lake Ann guards as an entity ourselves. So there really wasn't a reason to go through... Lash: So what do you want us to do? Manders: That kind of addresses the question about coverage. Hoffman: Make a motion that will appease the Council. Satisfy their request. Lash: Okay, I move that Jerry clean up the contract. Is there a second? Howe: Second. Lash moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission direct staff to update the contract for the Lake Ann lifeguard and swimming lesson program, including review by the City Attorney's office. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Franks: It doesn't appear to need much cleaning. Ruegemer: Just include the hours of operation, dates of operation and pretty much leave the whole money deal alone? Manders: Hours and dates, it doesn't matter. Berg: If it doesn't matter why, let's not do it. Lash: You know but you may want to just bring to his attention the fact that everybody's school years are being extended and will continue to happen. And with that will come the difficulty of him even finding lifeguards. A lot of them are at school. So he may want to look at, for his whole program.., so early in June. 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Manders: The point is that, unless we're saving money scaling back, why scale back? Hoffman: Lake Ann has always been one of their favorite beaches. It's difficult to work... You host their lifeguard Olympics there. They appreciate the facilities they've been given over the years. We have granted most every request that we can for phone lines, communication, safety equipment. And they appreciate that. We're glad to see the relationship...budget issues and on we go. 1998 PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION GOALS. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: Preservation of, how can we say that? Natural, free amenities. Berg: Potentially being destroyed by super highways. Hoffman: Well I can name one. You're going to manage the 1997 referendum project, because that's going to take about. Lash: We could break that into three. We can manage the trail portion, we can manage the community park portion, and we can manage the neighborhood parks. Now we only have to think of two more. Berg: Signs? Lash: Signs. Historical street signs. Manders: How about the land. Hoffman: Yeah, if you truly want to break it out, then you want to break it out into four. Manders: The question is about that, is there anything to be done there? Direction. It sounds like it's kind of sitting. Hoffman: We'll talk about it more later tonight, yeah. There are lots of stuff shaking out. Roeser: How about taking a serious look at the last...Chanhassen. Or any type of facility in Chanhassen. Lash: Todd, didn't we talk about doing some kind of...you're the one that brought it up. Howe: She has a mind like a steel trap. Don't mess with her. Lash: Yeah, that's on the record now. 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Berg: I'd like to see us do something with, for the use... Hoffman: Okay. Lash: Jerry's really on top of that already, aren't you Jerry? Ruegemer: I'm involved in the... Berg: Yeah, but that was middle school kids. I didn't see one high school. No I didn't, I mean older kids. Manders: I don't know if this is the time to talk about this but. Roeser: We're trying to find some goals so. Berg: That's part of the problem. Manders: There's some talk here, a while back about some BMX track and you're talking about...all of this stuff. Was that ever thought about in development of City Center or any of our other parks? Hoffman: Skate park, not BMX. Lash: Skate park. Hoffman: You're taking the BMX track away. Berg: Hockey rink wasn't it? Hoffman: The hockey rink will be a skate park. But no BMX. Manders: Okay. Alright. Lash: I know we kicked around the idea of trying to hit up the Market Square people there to help out with the money for that skate park so we can keep the skaters out of the shopping center. Did you, we should check with Vernelle. Howe: ...talked about last night .... later about the Bluff Creek greenway. Lash: Aggressive preservation? Howe: Yeah...goes back to the road. Hoffman: That watershed is a portion of the Bluff Creek watershed. One of the branches. 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Manders: This is kind of a small thing but where would the current trail around Lake Ann that goes... That trail is kind of...frequently. Is that something that should be considered for upgrade7 Hoffman: Has been for the last two years as a part of the reconstruction of the Lake Ann entrance roads. Manders: Too often you go through there and it's under water and you get. Hoffman: Wet. Roeser: Can it be raised or what would you do with it though? Hoffman: Yeah, the base would be increased. The depth and the width. It isn't, the soils aren't the greatest. It's a wet location. It's low and next to the lake but it can be improved through new construction. And there has been dollars requested as a part of the 1998 and 1997 budget to reconstruct the road and that trail, which has been cut from the budget. Roeser: It's been cut from the budget? Hoffman: Yeah, cut from the capital park maintenance budget. Not from your budget. Staff has requested that. Lash: I'm thinking since we did so many of our projects that we had on our 5 year plan, we did so many of them in our... I mean I know this is just a normal thing that we would do anyway but when we do our 5 year plan now, and...accomplishing so many things. Howe: ...creating new 5 year plans. Manders: ...on the old Pauly's site. Hoffman: Those are ripe for ideas. Lash: Oh yeah. That was my favorite, yeah... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Hoffman: ...come and go and should really reach the commission for some thought is that Lifetime Fitness is interested in building a market facility, market rate facility in town or a joint sponsoring with the city. But has so far received luke warm response. Lifetime Fitness Center. Franks: Have any of you seen the facility that they did jointly with the City of Plymouth? Berg: I hear it's unbelievable. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Franks: It is one of the most beautiful facilities I have ever seen. It just would knock your socks off. If Chanhassen has an opportunity to do that, considering that. Nobody wants to pay for a whole...center in the vein of Chaska. It has two indoor pools. One is a juvenile pool and the other is an adult pool. The juvenile pool is on a slant. Continuous slant with a 2 story indoor waterslide. All kinds of water features. There's a huge outdoor pool with two...and the work out areas are fantastic. Three gyms with great climbing wall. There's like 100 treadmills on the aerobic floor. Just beautiful. Lash: Maybe a little site tour would be... Franks: Lifetime was looking to buy the K-Mart property in Minnetonka and K-Mart, because that's what they like to do is kind of take, or go into a partnership, and K-Mart's been unwilling to sell their Minnetonka property because it's their highest grossing K-Mart store and so they want to get a facility in this area, they were looking for Minnetonka but I'm really glad to hear that they might be interested in us. Hoffman: Apparently they're looking at the property west of Byerly's. Lash: That would be big enough? How far west? Franks: Todd, would there be any way to find out the details of the partnership between Lifetime and the City of Plymouth are? Hoffman: Oh sure. Franks: To see what it is that they get out of being a partner in that. Hoffman: You can get the manual and then you can get a variety of opinions on what you get out of the partnership. It's a complex agreement. But a well received facility from what I've heard. Franks: Would that be something that we would maybe consider doing if it...? Berg: Field trip. Hoffman: Any others? What I'll do is bring back a list of. One other issue of the same magnitude of the Lifetime that just has escaped me... That's it. Franks: Minnesota Orchestra hasn't been interested in our area have they? Got to jump on that one too. Hoffman: Thank you Rod. Franks: The Minnesota Orchestra is looking to build an outdoor performance theater. They're the only major orchestra in the country without an outdoor performance theater, and they were 16 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 really looking to build...Lake Park but that got shot out. They were going to put in millions and millions of dollars of improvements, let alone... I think it's a better match for our community than it would be...We have a little bit more of an accessibility issue here but. Roeser: Call them Kerber Pond Park. Hoffman: Right now they're looking at northeast comer of TH 5 and 41. Roeser: Where? Hoffman: Northeast comer of TH 5 and 41. Lash: Fleet Farm. Roeser: Close to the Arboretum? Berg: That'd be exciting. Roeser: I want Fleet Farm. Lash: That'd be good too. Hoffman: We're looking for ideas and if you have any interest, really need authors. They're not getting anywhere on the public... Berg: Can you get us some more information? Franks: I can get a significant amount of information on the Minnesota Orchestra. I happen to know a Hennepin Parks Commissioner who was involved... Berg: If we have some idea of what we're talking about, maybe we could start pushing it really hard. Franks: I'll try to get the proposal that was submitted. Lash: You could get a presentation right here in this council... Franks: I know that...of the deal that they were really pushing for was shared performance time so that the City and the surrounding communities are guaranteed a certain amount of performance time in the theater. Plus then the orchestra would put on classes, hold workshops, that would be available to the area. That was like part of the deal. It'd be a really great way to get performing arts into our community. Lash: Way to go Rod. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Franks:: Along those same lines too, I don't know if I'm on the... Hoffman: You're on track. Franks: But maybe we can like set up a goal to identify and explore partnerships. I don't know what you want to put, community partnerships or...Lifetime or the orchestra. Another one that I've been thinking about too is taking...publicly owned golf course. Roeser: Did you used to play football for the Vikings? You didn't play for Notre Dame, did you? Lash: Now he's going to think we're picking on him. That was Huffman... Roeser: We all support that. We all support the trail on Highway 101 too but a temporary trail, I think I could... Hoffman: TH 101 is picking up momentum by the way. The road project. TH 101 north. Highway 5 access boulevard and Highway 5 reconstruction is scheduled for either the year 2000, so that's picking up speed as well. Berg: Just in time for the Open, like everybody said. Hoffman: As far as goals go. Berg: I think we have some good goals. Roeser: Do you have enough goals? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: So Todd, you'll put that together, right? Hoffman: Yep. PROGRAM REPORTS: A. 1998 FIREWORKS CONTRACT~ ANNUAL 4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION. Ruegemer: We did request proposals from Melrose Pyrotechnics, who is formerly Banner Fireworks who we had in the past. And RES Specialty Pyrotechnics who we've had do the 4th of July display last year. Both companies did review the bid aspects and return proposals. They were both very competitive. After looking at the two proposals, Melrose did have a larger shell count and a bigger finale and in my opinion we would receive I guess more bang for our buck so to speak. No pun intended. And we did talk about this last year. On the staff level, I was disappointed in last year's performance. I think commission members I think you maybe thought 18 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 differently about the show. I think some thought it was the best show we've ever had and that type of thing but I think that we can reserve a better value and get a better show from Melrose and they had a lot of the same people. The same, in fact the same person that has shot the shows over time was the Manager of the fill on site that day is going to be back again this year. He enjoys coming out here and doing the show and in my opinion, I don't think we can go wrong with Melrose so it's my recommendation, staffs recommendation that the Park and Rec Commission approve the 4th of July fireworks contract in favor of Melrose Pyrotechnics in the amount of $14,500.00. The display will be on Saturday, July 4th at 10:00. And I did talk to him about adding the July 5th as a rainout date so that is not going to be a problem so. And the cost of the fireworks was included in our operation budget, item 145. Anybody have any questions? Manders: Compared to last year, is it the same amount? Higher? Ruegemer: Same amount as last year, yeah. Lash: And what was the, I remember personally thinking that a lot of the fireworks last year were the same colors. You know...they were always the same kind of look. I don't remember what else was... Ruegemer: We had a lot of shells that barely cleared the trees. A lot of them that went backwards into the woods and just, I was really uneasy and that's really the first year that I've really been that way. Hoffman: It was a new vendor. Ruegemer: Going back...I guess, I was the biggest you know in favor of trying a new vendor last year. I really wanted to try a new vendor. I guess my comfort level wasn't the best last year. A little nervous. Roeser: Let's do it. Lash: Is there a motion? Howe moved, Franks seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the proposal provided by Melrose Pyrotechnics in the amount of $14,500 for Saturday, July 4, 1998 at 10:00 p.m. at Lake Ann Park. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Manders: One question. Have you thought about a new site for lift off here? Have you got a proposed...? Ruegemer: That was one in RES' proposal, he wanted to use the southern upper parking lot, just west of the Eckankar property. Kind of on top, kind of one of the highest points...at one time doing a picnic area up in that site. They wanted to use that site or incorporate that site into a second launch site. Secondary to the site down between Greenwood Shores and the fishing pier. Down in that area, but that was I think their contingent on their receiving the bid and if they were 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 going to get that site, they were going to add additional shells. Itjust wouldn't work out I don't think for us. Manders: The reason I ask is, I don't know how much rack do you get for having that trail closed? Ruegemer: That one? We do receive some but what we try to do is obviously promote it. In that bid, they were not going to close the trail. They were still going to use that launch site and then just add a second site. Lash: They weren't going to open the trail? Ruegemer: No. The trail still would have been closed. Manders: That's what I mean. Ruegemer: You know until we can find a location that really isn't, you know we have looked for other sites in the past. Should we do it on the soccer field? Should we do it on the ballfields, but it really kind of lends itself very...and that's just one of those components that we have to safeguard and plan for. Lash: Okay. B. WINTER DANCE. Dexter: It's just some information for the commission. Just to let you know that, you know I've told you many times that dances, one of our larger programs out there, I mean we have the rentals of the rooms and we have the fitness but as far as programs go, dance is by far our largest revenue. Fall we had 144 students. In winter we bumped it up 172, and our goal for this year was, the '97-98 year was we kind of go by the...or the 150 so we've surpassed our goal. And part of that was because we were able to add a morning kinderdance class and we were able to add that because we were able to find an instructor. So things are going good and we'll finish out the year with our spring session. We don't take new students during our spring session because we're getting ready for our recital. And then our recital once again will be held at the Waconia High School and we'll be doing that, we'll be having two performances. We were unable to get all of the students and the family members and friends at that location. Lash: Question on this jazz/funk. What kind of ages? I mean the kinderdance, that's pretty obvious. So that's like jazz/funk I kind of. Dexter: Jazz/funk I want to say is... Howe: How come we don't use our high school? 20 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Dexter: ...for the following year and I've been told that the Park and Rec Department has a window where we can get in before any private...and so if we get in during that time we should be able to get it. Hoffman: The school district has that window? Ruegemer: For the facility application process for the school district. Dexter: ...private businesses get it in like August. They can start reserving... Lash: Okay, thank you. C. RECREATION CENTER MONTHLY REPORT. Tom Knowles: Hello, my name is Tom Knowles. I've been on board for about 3 months now so I'm new to the job but I'm enjoying it so far and feel like I'm learning a lot but so far so good. I guess I'd like to say that we have been pleasantly busy the last couple months. The programs have been well received. The open gym times are busy. The fitness center is busy, as you might expect with the New Year's resolutions and what have you. Two things I'd like to emphasize from the memo, actually one of them isn't on the memo and that is the daddy-daughter date night, which this year we ran two such events. February 12th and 13th, both of which were full and very well received. It was two nice nights. The other thing I'd like to emphasize on the memo is the 3 on 3 basketball leagues this year. We ran a total of 16 teams this year. We projected that we'd only have 8 so we essentially doubled what we thought we were going to do. Jason Heath who coordinated the league did a very nice job and it ran very well. They're wrapping up right now so it was a very successful season. Thank you. Lash: Okay, does anybody have questions for Tom? Okay, thanks Tom. Welcome. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS: 1997 PARK~ OPEN SPACE AND TRAIL REFERENDUM PROJECT OVERVIEW. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Lash, members of the commission. I want to continue to keep you up to date on all of the aspects of the 1997 referendum. I think you're well aware of where the community park projects are at. They were approved, the master plans were approved by the City Council and we're currently working on bidding documents. So those documents were prepared, delivered to the City Council and authorize for bid will be...City Council. Not surprisingly, we're not going to accomplish everything on the master plan underneath the existing budget. There will be some priorities to, decisions to make as we move forward and typically what will occur is obviously anything that you cannot add on later will be done first and then.., could be added later will be scaled back appropriately. Please be aware that Highway 101 south, the turn lanes for the Bandimere Community Park will consume at least $100,000.00 of your approximately million dollar budget so that takes a great deal of energy out of the park project itself and put it's right onto the entry road. We had a meeting in these Council chambers last week with MnDot, Carver County, our engineers, the park consultant and the trail consultant 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 was actually there to talk about some potential joint projects with either the County or the State and there's really no chance that we are, be treated just like any other applicant for a development. A developer who is to be building 100 homes on that site, they would have to pay for the improvements to the turn lane and access as we are held responsible. We're scheduling improvements in the next couple of years and we would want to work with them in that but they are not so you'll be left to foot the bill. And then at City Center, just a lot of work to get done. Anytime you start taking a look at building, a warming house, recreation, or building the building at the recreation center, is a quarter of a million dollar building and your entire budget up here is halfa million. So what will we get done and what won't get done so we'll keep you up to date on those. Trail projects, our plans and specifications package is complete. Continue to work with 3 or 4 residents who have some issues...but on March 9th we're confident to move forward with authorization to proceed and then open bids on April 9th. And that's right around the time period when we'll open bids on the two community park projects as well. And again still, a great deal of uncertainty, just exactly how those bids will come in. If...the bid documents with you. Seven separate trail segments. About 30 individual bid items on individual trail for the contractor to go ahead and attempt to calculate costs for each of those segments. We're going to see some wide fluctuations. We're going to want to award to a quality contractor, a responsible bidder. These are difficult projects to install but we have found that this project, as far as it's size, it's scope, where the trails are being construction has never been done before in the State of Minnesota or the metropolitan area so. No one else has built this kind of project before. The City of Chanhassen and the Park and Recreation Commission are the first ones so you can be proud of that. But it also creates a great deal of uncertainty on our part and the part of contractors who are bidding it. They typically do not chase this kind of work. It's not their first priority. If they don't have other things to do, you know it's money. It's work. But it's not the best work available. It's difficult...work. Can you imagine you go out and work on a project where you have to deal with 100 individual residents every day as a contractor. They don't like that kind of. The neighborhood projects are again well on the way and scheduled. Thank you for that. And then the land acquisition I think we'll go ahead and talk about as the Bluff Creek overlay. I would just as soon do this in a work session format 5 or 10 minutes after we quit. Ruegemer: I would like to thank Park and Rec commissioners that were out at Feb Fest the 14th. Everything went really good. I really appreciate everybody's help and thanks again. Fred, Jan. Mike was out there fishing. Lash: Not very many people from Chan though. The winners. Ruegemer: We had a lot of people from Minneapolis, Richfield, St. Louis Park, Savage. Hoffman: For the most part they're connected to people in Chanhassen. Friends of somebody else. Lash: We'll move on to, do you have anything else Todd? Okay. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: 22 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Franks: Just one idea, and I'm...but they're considering that there might be a number of options coming before us, or potentially coming before us about partnership...in the City of Chanhassen and there might be others that would be out there. I wonder if we might want to make an effort to create some kind of committee of our group. Gather the information and explore it... More of a working group. Now I'm the second junior member here so...exactly how we would go about doing this. Lash: I think it does go by, off of seniority. Franks: I would be willing to...such a committee if there was any other commission members who would be interested... Lash: Interested? Howe: Yeah, I think. Berg: Was that the hardy endorsement you were looking for? Hoffman: You can probably get David... Franks: Well ifI can have two other people. Berg: Sure. Howe: Okay, sign me up. Franks: Do we need any kind of formal? Lash: No. Just start and let us know... Anybody else got anything under? Berg: I do. I mentioned the youth thing before. I won't bore you with a long story about how it came about but in our classes this week we've been dealing with some pretty heavy issues. Sociology and I promised the kids I'd come here and mention the fact that they're saying to me a lot that part of the big problem we have in this community, in this district with all the drugs is the fact that there's nothing else for the kids to do. My challenge to them is to come up with something. We've pooh-poohed a lot of the things and I said if you're going to come up with a room with a billiard table and two soft chairs, that's not going to do it. You've got to help us come up with something that people would actually use. I'm hearing that, from a lot of kids, good kids and questionable kids, that there isn't anything to do for teenagers in this community. Whatever that means. I'm anxious to see tomorrow what things that they're going to come up with and I'd like to at least keep it alive on the back burner someplace. We've got a lot of athletics in this town and whatever but I think we're missing out on a very, very large percentage of kids that I'm hearing saying really want to get involved and do something. Want to have a place to go. I don't have any idea what that means right now in terms of what that place would 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 look like. But I think we have, I think we're doing a disservice if we just, say well we've tried and nothing really was there. Well, we tried. Maybe we'll get lucky and hit something. Lash: Well we're getting the movies. I mean I'm just trying to think of. They're just not into organized, a lot of you know. We had battle of the bands a couple of times at the Rec Center. That was very popular. Did you have problems? Ruegemer: No I think Ryan and...I think that was a fundraiser to buy a piano. No, I mean I don't think there's any problems out there. I think it was very well attended. Berg: My daughter was involved in that. It was very well attended. Very popular. Lash: She thought it was really fun. Berg: It seems to me if they're asking and saying we'd really like to have some input on what we can have and what we can do, maybe we should listen. I'm not saying we wouldn't anyway but I'm just trying to reinforce that. Hoffman: A concert series in itself, if that appeals to that age group would probably be... A couple-three a year and there's plenty of residents in our community that would classify that as not an appropriate sponsored activity but...in the recreation center which is a pretty clean environment... Berg: Give them a chance to prove that they're... Lash: Last evening I attended the City Council meeting where there was discussion on the extension of Coulter Boulevard, and after I think some, or we all expressed our opinions and Mr. Dahlgren was there and they had an engineering report and they had a presentation prior to the meeting from a representative from MnDot. So given all the information that they had, they took their vote and made the recommendation or made the motion to fund the plans and specifications to do the Coulter extension. It was not approval to build the road but approval to move forward with the plans and specifications and it was my understanding that MnDot does not like those kind of plans to sit on the shelf for more than a year. So I think with that understanding, or it was the understanding that it would probably move forward within a year's time. We, you know we made what I thought were a few valid points. However, we did discuss in our little side meeting out in the audience there that we thought we would make an attempt to bring up some additional points that we maybe didn't do there last night and forward that letter onto City Council so I volunteered to draft a letter which you've seen this evening so if you're interested in...suggest we pass that to Todd .... and can also just be part of the formal record that we're fairly unanimous in opposition to this extension. So anyone who's interested in signing it down... Hoffman: Your earlier recommendation, not to proceed with the road is also a part of the record. Lash: Okay. I'd also just like to go on record. I know we've had a lot of meetings but when I stop and think about the amount of work and the time and energy that staff had to put into all 24 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 these projects and plan for every meeting we've had, they've had, especially Todd has really...so I want to make sure that Todd gets a recognition and the thanks that the deserves. There's a lot of meetings and extra work going on. I know he's up here a lot of nights so thanks Todd for all your work. Let's move onto the Administrative section or packet. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET: Lash: I had one quick question and that was on this deal on, with the letter to Terry Forbord. Hoffman: It was in there at a request. My cover letter, which I drafted, was never typed and included. This was at the request of the commission when we talked about the private park which is being installed as a part of the Springfield Addition. And this...September of 1993 when this plan was presented to the commission by Lundgren Bros for subdivision. Lash: Okay, so this is the property that abuts Bandimere? Hoffman: To the north, correct. Lash: They're putting a private park in that development. Hoffman: That's their third park in the community. They obviously think they're very important because they're willing to pay the commission and city both park and trail fees, full park and trail fees and invest in the land and the amenities for each one of... Lash: Okay, and I'll own up to being on here because I see my name all over but. Hoffman: It does not talk about the private park? Lash: No. I don't see anything in here about that. Our motion is...here too, that we require 5.3 acres of parkland dedication as shown in lieu of park fees, and the applicant will design a trail connection to the southeast quadrant for Lake Riley Boulevard, and we recognize the future trail construction on Lyman Boulevard and 101 will occur with road realignment. Therefore, full trail fees will be required. All voted in favor and the motion carried. I just don't see anything in here about a private park. And I do have a mind like a steel trap. Hoffman: I did not read through it. I just pulled it out of the file and asked that it be included in the section. We had the site plan, it may tell us a little bit more. Typically it's an item of discussion at the very least. Talked about at a later meeting... Lash: We had a lot of discussion about the trail and you know Terry was all. Hoffman: It wouldn't shock me if they didn't disclose it at this time. Lash: Terry was all up in arms about, and I remember the discussion because he thought we were talking about we wanted to have a trail running along the back of the lots and he didn't, he 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 wasn't in favor of that and went on and on. When all we wanted was an access between two lots to get people from the street to the park so they wouldn't have to cut through yards. And once he understood what we were talking about, then the said okay. So if that's something that happened and wasn't disclosed, I would be. Hoffman: I'll take a look at the series. Lash: That was my only question on the Administrative Packet. Does anyone else have anything? Howe: Just on the, if anything, the two guys we lost. Jason and Nathan. Is that what's happening now, we're losing people? They're going to better jobs or we're training them. What's happening? Patty Dexter: ...he obviously got a full time job. And with Jason, he decided to go back and finish school. Howe: He says he's completely impulsive and...They seemed like good guys and that's. Patty Dexter: And they were and I'm really bummed to see them go. And probably more so in the fact that I'm having difficulties filling their spots. Right now I still have one opening left. I had both spots filled...note saying the would be unable to accept the position so I'm still working on filling that... Hoffman: That's the trend. The trend is they come in. They receive...minimal benefits. Not full time and so yeah, they're getting trained and they're looking for full time work. And unless we make a decision to change that, that will continue. But Tom's picking up the slack. Howe: I've seen Tom there. I've been watching. Hoffman; He's doing a great job. Lash: Anybody else? And Todd you wanted to have, talk about the comp plan? Hoffman: Yep. I think Nancy wants to speak... Nancy Mancino: ...I just want to take a minute and thank you, all of you on the commission for your extra time and effort that you've put in all the meetings on the City Center and Bandimere Park and on the trails. You need to know how helpful that is for us City Council members, and the City Council meetings that we've had. The final meetings for both the parks and for the trails. Last night I think we had 3 people there. So all the work that you did and all the special meetings that you had certainly, I just want you to know, are very, very helpful and I think everybody got out what they needed to and those that did come, I mean they're also at a state where you know they just want to add a few kind words. You get to hear all the rumblings and everything so it's, I very, very much appreciate that. You got what? 26 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 24, 1998 Lash: A blessing. Nancy Mancino: Oh. Oh, yes that's true. On Galpin, you did get, and Todd got blessed too which was very nice too. We have not, we have one more meeting on the trails, just to give us the go ahead and I do think, you know worse case after we get these estimates coming back to us for the trails, that we may have to take another hard look at it and see what happens but again, thank you very, very much. Very, very appreciated. Lash: Is there a motion to adjourn? Howe moved, Roeser seconded to adjourn the meeting. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park & Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 27