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1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 22, 1998 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Rod Franks, Ron Roeser, Jim Manders, Mike Howe, Fred Berg and Dave Moes MEMBERS ABSENT: None. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor VISITOR PRESENTATION: (Taping of the meeting began at this point in the discussion.) Mr. Gomez: ...but our concern is just one that most of us in that area, and again...those people back in here, paid a premium for the lots for the privacy as it backs up to that water preserve. None of us were informed that there ;vas going to be a trail there. The trail's...we're trying to figure out how we can manage it to still maintain the privacy that we thought we were buying into. And we talked about whether you can build a berm, whether it be a just...add more water to that water preserve and/or who's going to put up the...bottom where the trail...and the homes begin. Lash: Can you just back up for one second because l'm just not quite familiar with Bluff Creek Estates. Is that over near? Mr. Gomez: Off of Audubon. Lash: Okay. Mr. Gomez: On the, just south of'...on the west side of the road. And it's the one that just basically... Lash: Ob, on the west side of there. Okay. Mr. Gomez: Yeah...all the way down to the, and you know one of the questions we had Todd is, and I know I had asked it a while back and ! don't recall was, you know we have that other area that's... Hoffman: Industrial. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Mr, Gomez: Commercial industrial .... eventually going to put a trail there. Is there a possibility of even putting the trail on back of that? ...neighborhood to get there...and I don't know whether that's... Lash: This is one of the new segments that... Hoffman: Yeah, it's the Bluff Creek trail. Roeser: It goes down Audubon, down the hill there. Is that what we're talking about? Hoffman: Dawn's photocopying some images of where we're at here for the, Mr. Gomez' back yard. This trail starts in the cul-de-sac where the Weather Service is. The trail that goes off of the cul-de-sac and then it goes south and deadends really at the western boundary line of Bluff Creek Estates. So it deadends there. The trail starts...construction will start at that point. Travel south and then there's a connection to the neighborhood right between the two cul-de-sacs that go down in, Bluff Creek Estates there's a cul-de-sac... And then the trail continues down south to Sunridge, Sunridge Addition I believe it is. And then kitty corner towards the intersection of Lyman Boulevard and Audubon. That's this section of Bluff Creek trail. Most likely would have been built already by this time. It was one of the early segments scheduled but there's been some problems with the southern terminus point between the Monson lot and the Edward's property. And so if we resolve that issue we may start construction as late as October 1st. Past that date it will most likely go to the first of the year before we can start, spring of next year before we can get started. Lash: So the trail is not in now? Hoffman: No. It's not in. That's correct. Lash: Okay. But this is one of the new ones from the referendum, right? Hoffinan: Yep. There's a map that details Mr. Gomez' lot... Lash: Okay. Manders: IfI understand this one page handout, the current terminus point is on the right side at someplace up here? Hoffman: Yeah. The current terminus is up to the north where it says, See Sheet 23. It goes even farther north than that. This is one sheet. Chair Lash has the full detail...showing all segments of the trail. Lash: Okay, Mr. Gomez. I just want to make sure now that I have, know where we're talking about. So this trail is something that we anticipate will begin construction this fall. Well it's behind all these lots, right? And your concern is in the area of privacy. And you are hoping that there could be some type... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Mr. Gomez: ...I'd be more open to... Lash: What kind of privacy do you have now? Is it fairly fiat or do they slope down or up or? Mr. Gomez: We just built a two level structure. We have a little bit...and I think there's quite a bit of room between the back of our lot and...above and beyond the berm... Lash: Does anyone else have any questions? ...okay. Our standard procedure for visitor presentations is that this item would be tabled until our next available agenda at which time this would be published so anyone, any of your other neighbors would know...come in and give us additional information, that would be helpful. And the staff then would have time to gather information that could be helpful for us. So given that situation I would ask that this item be tabled until our next available agenda. Roeser: I'd really like to see it too. I'd like to go down there and look so I think we should table it so I'd move we table it. Lash: No construction would be done...a conflict if it were to go in the direction ofberming or filling or something like that'? Hofflnan: Yeah, I don't see that we're going to start October 1st. These construction, the time table for these trails is 25 to 30 days once they're in so if we start by the l0th of October, we're still going to have time to meet and make some decisions. And if we do move up our time schedule xve can meet a little bit earlier in October. Lash: But we still wouldn't meet by then because we won't meet until the 20 something of October will we.'? Hoffman: Correct, yeah, So you wouldn't meet by the first. It'd be 10 days of construction underxvay, but there will still be time to meet and render... Howe: Todd, if you do come out... Hoffman: Well sure, yeah we'll stake it. I was out with Nancy after she was out and walked the alignment. Howe: We can...orange stakes... Hoffman: Yeah, and they've been there for about eight months noxv so they all the stakes may not be there so we'll restake the trail... Lash: Okay, thanks Mr. Gomez. Hoffman: Some other people arrived, I don't know if they were here for this item or. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Manders: But I'm saying, regardless of where it is, it's the convenience accessible... Lash: And you're talking about docking boats, right? That's the main. How many people would have boats that would want to moor them? Todd Frostad: Well along, every property owner that I've talked to is interested in at least having you know a lottery right or something that would potentially help their future property value if they sell but at the same time currently 1 know of only five people of the 13 houses that would be interested in putting a boat there immediately .... and then maybe it's a lottery. We're looking at everything as a possibility. Not really ruling anything out here. We're just trying to figure out, if there were a dock, maybe there's a limited number of slips on that dock you know. What are the assessments? What would be the procedures... Lash: ...and I think we have one down at Carver Beach, don't we? I mean we have canoe racks. Not that that's what you want. Racks that are accessible to the public through lottery but then it's open to everyone in town. Todd Frostad: Well that's fine. I mean you know, I have a canoe there... Lash: Okay. This would be another one of those items that we would have to table until some furore agenda... Hoffman: Yeah, it's an appropriate place to start. Whether it goes any farther than that is up to you. Lash: ... Hoffinan: Sure. And then how would you want to publish? Consideration of a private dock at Carver Beach Park? Lash: An association dock. Hoffman: Association dock. Lash: That's what you're requesting. Hoffman: Yeah...this last mailing went to a much larger Carver Beach neighborhood. Todd Frostad: Yeah, because kids that play on that don't live in those 13 houses. So understandable and probably appropriate. Manders: The question I would have would be along the lines of what city ordinances or regulations there would be... 6 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Todd Frostad: Well I know that property originally was...association, Carver Beach Association land .... Whether there's By-laws or information on the sale of that to the city as a condition of sale, I don't know. I haven't researched it, you know. Is that the neighborhood or that area have any rights to that land or rights of access to the land...original sale. All those things I don't know... Lash: Okay, any other visitor presentations? APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Howe moved, Roeser seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated August 25, 1998 amended to reflect that Patty Dexter was not present at the meeting and all comments made by Dexter should be changed to Marek. All voted in Favor of the Minutes as amended and the motion carried. CARVER BEACH PARK~ SWIMMING RAFT. Public Present: Name Address Pat & Keith Gunderson Mike Wegler Todd Frostad Loran Veltkamp 6661 Mohawk Drive 6630 Mohaxvk Drive 6728 Lotus Trail 6724 Lotus Trail Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: ...if you could come for~vard and state your name and address. Mike Wegler: I'm Mike Wegler. I live at 6630 Mohawk Drive. Myself and a few other residents built that raft... We built it in I think '88. So it's 10 years old... I think at that time it cost S350.00. Right now...my guess is if they would have said something earlier this spring... Lash: Anyone else who wants to comment on this item? Loran Veltkamp: My name is Loran Veltkamp. I live directly in front of the raft. In fact that's what I see everyday when I get up and so we have a unique perspective on the raft these past five years. I'm kind of ambivalent about it. I have used it a few times and we've fished offit and stuff like that but I guess if it was left up to me I'd kind of say no to the raft at this point because there's a constant noise problem on our property from the raft. When people get on it they fight and...about 100 feet from our house. Another reason why I'm against...on the raft right now is because the biggest problem in our park is the milfoil and the milfoil has gotten xvorse every year and it's now across the entire beach and when you swim out to the raft, you kno~v you get tickled by this stuff and I think next year it will come up in the surface and come up to the surface and block the entire area as it goes out to the raft. If you could show that, do you have that perspective picture... So I'm thinking well we fix the raft and then, that's my canoe. I was out Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 looking at the raft today. You can't really see the milfoil here but it's on the left and on the right there, which you can see it coming up... I think it will go all the way across and prohibit swimming next year, or the year after that because it's just, it's infesting that area and every year it comes in about another 15 to 20 feet so it just keeps shrinking the swimming area relentlessly. So I'm thinking well with milfoil the way it is, we should probably focus on that if we're going to do something for the park because if you fix the raft and don't fix the milfoil, nobody's going to use the raft except for, I don't know what. Maybe boating or something... Also I would like the park commission to think about the noise level on this thing if you are going to put it. 1 noticed that the city put up quiet signs and I guess it's helped a little and then they restricted the parking spaces which also helps and it really hasn't been a problem. It's much better than it used to be. But I just thought I'd mention that. I don't know where the rest of the people, I'm surprised there's nobody here... Audience: ... Lash: Todd, the city is kind of working on a milfoil program, aren't they? Hoffman: I don't know that the city does any treatment on. Lash: Not on Lotus? Well Minnewashta I think has an association don't they'? Hoffman: Yes. Phillip Elkin, the City Water Resource Coordinator works on that. For the most part it's been association driven... The DNR, when milfoil first got started the DNR, this is back when the city put dollars for a number of... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) COMPLETE 1999 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. Berg: Maybe we can tie in the money from the referendum for land acquisition. Hoffman: It's a possibility. It's difficult to do when you have a bird in the hand to go chasing more cash but we can, when the DNR sees that a city has taken on an initiative and has acquired a million and three quarter for land acquisition and then they start fishing around for additional dollars to add to that, it's an 18 month, two year process. And so it's more of a time thing. Right now the council is saying Todd, get out there and buy that land. They're not saying Todd, get out there and apply for a grant which will help expand on what you can...with that money and take the 18 months to two years necessary to get that done. So I'm not chasing grants. If I apply for a grant in this winter cycle, it will be for 18 months, two years down the line. So it's more of a timing issue. Lash: ... Howe: I like that idea. 8 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Lash: Yeah. Did you have something in mind? Howe: No, I'm not even sure what. Personally, to comment on this, you know I agree with other members of the commission that we should...away more in that reserve so I mean, that's something we can do the future. It should would be nice. Costly projects. If something like an art center, we can shoot for but I think we need to conservatively put some money away. I'm not sure what I think, or xvhere we'd put it but I think it... Lash: Anyone else? Comments? Manders: Yeah, I had one question about the 75,000 on the restoration and maintenance. Is that kind of a dart throw or was that some? Hoffman: Dart throw. Manders: Was it? Hoffman: I don't want to see the commission spending maintenance dollars, capital dollars for maintenance. We have not been successful in managing for replacement funds. That we have no trail replacement funds. We have no playground replacement funds. But we have been successful in increasing the 148 budget which is the park maintenance budget so annually for the past four years, give or take, we've had S30,000.00 in maintenance asphalt. Period. But we can accomplish small projects with that but I can't renovate or rip out a Lake Ann connector trail for $30,000.00. And so we've also been at the Lake Ann Park road as a maintenance item. This will go on the fourth year now. So we've asked every year for dollars to reconstruct the Lake Ann entrance road and parking lot and then the trail as a part of that. So and if you'd like me to separate out the trail and let's just go for the trail, we can do that. Manders: No, it's not really even, I mean I'm interested in the discussion that you bring up about using the capital funds for maintenance and that makes sense but that's an issue that I think needs to be focused on because they're going to continue to deteriorate and things are getting worse and worse. By ignoring them and building new things with capital funds, it still doesn't solve this other problem. Hoffinan: You've got the tail chasing you from behind. Manders: Yeah, So I'm interested in how do we go about solving this problem. It's a problem today that we're going to be facing down the road when we don't have this bounty of revenue coining in. And so we have to face it today and we can't even figure out how we're going to deal with it. Lash: Anyone else? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Roeser: I think this interpretive center too can be cut back some. We really don't have a place for it yet any way. There's no...but like Lake Susan beach, if we can do that for $4,000.00, do it. Hoffman: My only concern with Lake Susan beach is once we put a sand blanket down, then we're going to be asked. Lake Susan is not a quality swimming source and so if you put the beach down, you kind of get ahead of yourself. How do you address the muck bottom? The milfoil. Roeser: It's still fairly clear. I went by today. Hoffman: Now, yeah. But that's an experimental program. Is it going to stay? Is it going to go? And then we would have to make it an annual item. There has been sand added at Carver Beach over the years. These blankets do wash in and they start to build up over time so we would have to do the same thing with Lake Susan. Roeser: ...just forget about it. Hoffman: Well that's where we've been. Do we make it a beach? They're using it so. Roeser: And the day will come and they will demand more. Manders: Lake Ann is not that far away and it's much better. Roeser: All ora sudden they'll want buoys and docks and, how are we going to build a berm around the beach and all that jazz so maybe it would be just if we would just let it rest. Franks: Well on Lake Susan, it's like you have a park shelter, tennis courts. Roeser: Fishing dock. Franks: Fishing dock. Boat landing. People are water skiing. You've got, it's the park that has everything except the beach and now they've taken care of the water quality. They've done all the ponding for the runoff instead of that drainage ditch that just ran everything right into the lake. It's like there's been all these improvements and upgrades and the one glaring piece that seems to be missing from Lake Susan is the beach. Roeser: But the fact is, it's not a good swimming lake for one thing. Franks: Well I remember we talked earlier in the year that the water quality was just a little bit less than Lake Riley and Lake Riley is one of Eden Prairie's swimming beaches. Lash: Well are you just talking about throwing down some sand along the shoreline or are you talking dig out the muck and put sand further out or how extensive? Hoffman: We can't do that. 10 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Lash: You can't do that, okay .... can you even put sand out? Hoffman: Naturally wash out there. Lash: Okay, so you just put it along the beach... Franks: We'd have to extend the beach apron another what, 20 feet? Hoffman: We've got plenty, you know the DNR guys, the shoreland regulations which mandate how much of the beach you can clear, we've got plenty of right-of-way for shoreline. You own just about half the lake so we would clear it out...put sand down and potentially relocate the canoe rack that's kind of sitting right there at the edge of the beach. Lash: Can we stick it in there, chances are... Franks: Yeah, you're right. People are using it already. $4,000.00 in a lean year is still a lot of money but let's make it useable if they really... Hoffman: Then we'll let the calls come in on the what the other problems are. Franks: Yeah but then the picnic table that always ends out in the lake. Count that as a swimming raft, Hofflnan: Then we're okay. Lash: Put carpet on a little picnic table. Franks: There you go. Now we've got it covered. Hoffman: We picked one up on the south side of the Lake Susan last week. They called in and said we have one of your picnic tables. Lash: So can we try and stick that in there Todd? Hoffman: You bet. Lash: Okay. Does anybody have anything else they really can't live without? Franks: Not having the... Lash: So are we going to work next on our five year then so we can take all these things and try to figure out when we can... Hoffman: Do some long range revenue expectations. Start to forecast out. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Lash: Actually we could just work offofthis list. Manders: What I'd be interested in is determining somehow how one would inventory quality or the condition of our trail system. What maybe needs to be addressed. Whether it be trimming or repair or whatever. I guess I've been on a lot of it but I...I don't know if that's something that you do as a course of the year that somebody does as time goes by and just kind of. Hoffman: Yeah, Dale manages the, Dale Gregory our Park Superintendent manages the pavement management program for the trails. We experimented with the same thing that you see on roads. The seal and the rock, that we use seal and sand. Our findings are that it's not a benefit to put down seal and sand. It happened out here on Kerber and so we sealed with tar and then put sand layer on half of Kerber and then we overlaid the other half and you can wait a few more years and then overlay or you sand seal it about four years. You wait about six to eight years before you do an overlay. There really isn't a lot of benefit to doing that sand overlay on a trail. In fact it irritates many trail users. And if you put rock down they put either the pebbles down or the chip rock and it really gets them irritated. And the sand does not, just does not provide the surface that holds up so it's just like putting a layer of tar down and sanding it really provides little benefit. Where the overlay is much more beneficial. As an organization that's state wide ~ve talked a little...park directory. They're not very, they're in a similar place. Councils, cities, commissions. Commissions tend to be more proactive because they're, you know councils face the bottom line every day and for us to set out a management program that says we're going to invest this much money to maintain our trails and we're going to keep them in top condition and quality, those programs are very hard to put into place because it's a guarantee expenditure of dollars. And councils say no, we're not going to keep that... That trail's going to sit out there and wear and tear until the last day when it can take no more traffic. Then we'll try to come up with the money to make it happen. So I'm right with you Jim. Manders: Maybe with the reality is that something like the Edina referendum xvhere things evidently deteriorated to the point where it forced a referendum and then they went in and fixed up a lot of the things that evidently had gone down hill. And if that's the case here, then that's the reality check that we have to face. Hoffman: I think we have some years. We're not that old as a community. Manders: I'm not saying it's in bad shape but I think there are sections that are getting. Hoffman: They need some work, yeah. Lash: Anybody else have anything... Franks: Yeah, just one more thing back on bleachers but we had talked with Frank about portable bleachers out at Bluff Creek. Is that something that you've... 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Ruegemer: No...I did get some price quotes for Frank. What they're going to do is look at that as...see if they can do some fund raising to raise dollars. Lash: ... Okay, anybody else have anything? Berg: Does the skate park that we talked about budgeted into... Hofih~an: And that's an item we missed on our wish list there. We have the hard surface. We don't have the skates. Lash: ... Hoffman: Not in a while. Berg: I was talking to some kids today though that I said I'd bring it up for that reason. There's a new generation coming up of kids who would like to use it, or might xvant to see it happen. But those particular kids, half of them have moved out of the city and the other half are driving cars so they're not interested in skateboarding... Hoffman: Yeah, there's a couple of items relating to that that xve do not have on this list as of yet. Portable hockey boards for the winter. And the skate park for the summer. When this contractor moves offthis project, we will have, and the...will have asphalt pads, drains and lights. Beyond that we have no resources for other amenities. Lash: So we're not going to have hockey out there'? Hoffman: Right now we'll have hockey but we'll probably do it with inside, plow it, no boards. We don't have hockey boards for that. Lash: With xvhat? Hoffman: Just plowing the snow. Plowing the snow. We don't have the boards in the budget. We were stretched to get what we had. The skate park though is, I'm still thinking corporate. Franks: Are there corporate sponsors or private vendors that might be interested in setting up the equipment or maintaining equipment? Hoffinan; I don't think setting up or maintaining it. We would have to go after what we refer to as a title sponsor I think to take the lead. It's $30,000.00 to $60,000.00. Lash: How about a, I know occasionally you go to, you go to Chamber meetings don't you? ...try to get them each to. Hoffman: They don't write checks. 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Lash: They don't...signs? Hoffman: The corporate people in town are where the dollars. Have to be kind of that corporate appeal. Helping out the team. Speaking of chamber meetings, we were at one today and it was brought up. Place the team. Thinking about it. Lash: For years, now that Pauly's is gone. That was one of them .... on this particular item? So if we put in Lake Susan, that's another $4,000.00, right? Okay. Hoffman: We need a motion. Need to send it up to the Council. Howe: I move that we accept staff's recommendation for the '99 capital improvement program with the addition of $4,000.00 for Lake Susan beach. Lash: Is there a second? Franks: Second. Howe moved, Franks seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend approval of the 1999 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program amended to include $4,000.00 for the Lake Susan Park beach. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PROGRAM REPORTS: 1998/99 OUTDOOR SKATING/HOCKEY RINKS. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item. Lash: Obviously as you see right in the center there's just a pretty gapping hole xvhere there's nothing. What do we have in that area? Is Pheasant Hills in that neighborhood? Manders: Yeah. Lash: Would that be, I'm not talking about this year but would that site be an option? Ruegemer: Flag space. Hoffman: No, access and then visibility. We'd be building a skating rink kind of in the back 40 there. You have to drive down that. Manders: Was that the video...that we got? Lash: Is there any other thing? I mean Curry Farms is there but we've had kind of the same problem with that. 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Ruegemer: Sugarbush is pretty much within the service area of the Rec Center. Lash: Because we've got a pretty big overlap in Carver Beach. That one doesn't have a warming house. I was just thinking it'd be nice if we could. Hoffman: Presently Pheasant Hill is the only option. And they do the pond. They have a big tradition out there with the pond. Ruegemer: The neighbors. Lash: How about the Minnetonka intermediate School? Manders: ...they've got some lights in there too. On that pond. Hoffman: We could probably negotiate a spot on the intermediate school. Lash: That would be kind of, I mean there's that big... Manders: Has there been much demand or people talking about a site out in this area'? Hoffinan: There hasn't been more or less than any other place in the city. Lash: If we were going to plunk one more in...Bandimere, we'd be pretty well set. Hoffman: Curry Farms has asked for it over the years. Access. We can't drive a truck up and down that hill. Lash: So what kind of; does Carver Beach get used a lot'? Hoffinan: It's an active site. It's got. Manders: Easy access. Lash: Yeah, it is easy access to it. Manders: It's pretty well built up around it. Lash: Overlap two sites considerably and it doesn't have a warming house. Roeser: Yeah, neither one of them have a warming house. Manders: I mean the overlap on the other site is kind of by looks. If you geographically look at it. It doesn't overlap at all. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Lash: Minnetonka...don't they ever have ice up there? Hoffinan: Not that I know of. Ruegemer: Not that I know of either. Do any of the commissioners have any additional comments or questions? Franks: Is there going to be any tracking of usage besides the crews that are doing maintenance to the rink? Is there a form...? Ruegemer: The warming house attendants do. Franks: Right, but l'm thinking like at Minnewashta Heights, right. Ruegemer: We can talk to park maintenance crews on that. They have a pretty good feel as to xvhat, as far as it'd be hard to talk the number. Franks: Hard to get hard numbers. Ruegcmer: Hard numbers, right but they can see if there's activity obviously. Franks: That'd be helpful. I'm curious. Manders: Maybe the objective being the least used site. Hoffman: Is that every year? Add one and. That's incentive. Manders: You know delete your site. Lash: Okay, anything else on the ice deal? LAKE ANN PARK CONCESSIONS/BOAT RENTAL. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item and asked for any questions. Lash: Yep, I have one. I remember when this whole deal first started and you said we need to talk about, come up with the commission, how we're going to deal with these bus loads of people coming in. We really do need to do that. Not tonight but. Because it does impact. It impacts use for everyone else who's there and the number of lifeguards... That's not enough lifeguards for a safe situation so we need to figure out how to deal with that when it happens. Is this published in a brochure? How do people get the name of Lake Ann...? Ruegemer: Well I think word spreads fast. This year. Lash: So people aren't finding it in a brochure or something like that? 16 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Ruegemer: A lot of it's word of mouth. We did have some repeat customers from previous years but, and we need to talk to Marry Walsh from Carver County Park...so we have a uniform policy across the board so you know if Lake Ann has a parking fee of $40.00 a bus load and Excelsior doesn't, we want to make sure that we're consistent all the way across. We don't impact everybody else. Manders: How many times, is there any sense of the usage down there this summer? Was it just totally out o£ hand or? Ruegemer: At times. I mean we had multiple groups come in. Roeser: By bus? Ruegemer: By bus. Roeser: Bus loads? Franks: I was down there a few times when the buses pulled up. Roeser: Where were they from? Ruegemer: Bloomington, Arlington, Chanhassen, you name it. Minnetonka. Chaska school district. Hoffman: They come from out west. Ruegemer: All kinds of places. I mean Lake Ann is very popular. Franks: Take it as an opportunity to advertise the good will of the city. Hoffman: The school districts and daycares. Ruegemer: Yeah, like daycare programs. Lash: Well that's not my point Jim. (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Ruegemer: l'm going to pass that along to John...that program. Lash: Plus ~ve're having to staff more. So to me if there's groups coming in like that. I don't know how to do it. I mean that's what I said. I don't think we can figure it out tonight. Hoffman: It's going to have to come out of the concession building. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Ruegemer: Yeah...Why don't I get together with those other two... Lash: When do we renew our lifeguard...? Ruegemer: ...We'll probably be doing that December-January. Manders: Having the lifeguards come back this year was a good idea. Ruegemer: Just from the aspect that they did, they were out there and saved that gentleman's life you know. Lash: There was a couple of close calls out there this year. Hoffman: Yes. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: HIGHWAY 101 NORTH RECONSTRUCTION. Hoffman: I happened to notice a meeting schedule. Generally a meeting of engineers and so I asked Anita Benson, our city engineer, ifI could invite myself to this meeting to represent the commission on the trails that will be a part of this project. And so as I entered this meeting, most of the other ladies and gentlemen were assembled and they immediately recognized me not as an engineer but as a park and trails person. Wrong tennis shoes. My past preceded me and they all stared me down and made me register a pack of silence. A pack of silence on the potential cross sections of the TH 101 construction, which I did so I'm here to tell you that this project is coming along and there are trails on either side, both the east and west side of the corridor and from what they tell us, this is going to be built in the year 2000 but there is much blood to be shed between now and then as far as what the road will look like so it's not an easy task. Whatever support we can lend, we should do that. There review the trails, what the ingredients are, people xvant the trails. Communities want the trails. Eden Prairie wants the trails. Chanhassen wants the trails. The pot of money is available. Generally I think the number they're talking is $10 million. So the money is available. But now going out to the public and into the public process saying we have the money and we want to build your trails but we also have to upgrade these roads and so let us ~know what you want. And the cross sections you know are what the big debate's going to be about. So just a heads up for you. I'll keep you informed as much as I can. Manders: So is this like a state, at the state level? Hoffman: Hennepin County. All of the agreements have come down to the fact that Hennepin County will maintain and take ownership of Highway 101 north of Highway 5 and Carver County will do the same south of Highway 5. Lash: So is this year's secret code the little... 18 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Hoffman: No. No. No, that's north. Lash: Oh! i thought I broke the code. Hoffman: So those of you interested, are you getting the newsletters? Those of you up in that area. Anybody getting that? The finn that's been hired to do the. Moes: No. Nothing's showing up in our neck of the woods at all. Hoffman: Hennepin County has retained a finn to do the study and so they're out there doing this study and I thought they sent out a preliminary newsletter. Moes: Well, but are they sending it to the people in Carver County then'? Hotlinan: Yep. Moes: Okay. Hofflnan: Carver. Hennepin. RECREATION CENTER. Hoffinan: Susan xvas unable to be here this evening. Have you seen the banners on the recreation center? Beautiful. Franks: They look nice. Lash: Did they get your attention? Franks: They did but I ~vas looking for them. I'm wondering if you weren't really. Hoffman: Well you have to glance over at the building but then. Berg: How long can they be up? Hoffman: 30 days. So the third anniversary celebration is coming up October 9th through the 15th. You'll have to look for advertisements in the Villager. School starting, business increases. It always does. Staffing, we've hired Chris Anderson as facility supervisor. They continue to look for additional supervisors. If you knoxv anybody who would like to do a morning shift. Excuse me. Ruegemer: I hired somebody. Hoffman: Okay. 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Ruegemer: Gary Pancake. Hoffinan: You hired Gary Pancake? Ruegemer: No, Susan did. Hoffman: Wonderful. Good to hear. Pancake in the morning. That's wonderful. And then programming, the whole programming issue with the YMCA, that's something that we may want to talk about as well. They're a good service provider but is that what we want to be doing for service provisions but think about that. Talk to your neighbors about the Y programs that are sponsored out at the recreation center because they I think Dawn will be talking about that in the future. Now, oh and updates. You know, I don't know if the Lion's letter is in this administrative packet but the Lion's playground has been real, just run off the tracks. The money's going over to Lake Ann for the ballfield lights and so we are going to sod the front lawn and make it look beautiful. Manders: That front area in front of the rec center? Hoffman: Yeah. REFERENDUM PROJECT STATUS. Hoffman: We've been talking about the referendum for a couple of meetings, and rightfully so. It's generally what I spend my entire day on...project. I want to keep the commission up to date and then we'll also run through some of these images that we have. Carver Beach Park. The parking improvements, and you'll see these as we go through them in a moment. Those are complete. Carver Beach playground. Generally everything is either under way or complete with the exception of these playgrounds by Earl F. Anderson. And I wrote my second letter of disappointment to their company. They have been bogged down with too much work. I don't see that as our problem. We had agreed to have two of these playgrounds in Minnewashta, excuse me. South Lotus Lake and Rice Marsh Lake by now. September 15th and the other two in by the end of the month. They did not meet that commitment so I've informed them that they have until October 15th and I expect that that they make that deadline. And then the other two that they have to do on Minnewashta Heights and then where's the other one? Carver Beach. Yeah, Carver Beach. We signed the purchase orders mid July. They made those promises. I either tell them I don't want the product anymore and we walk away. I don't see that as a positive. It's really, you know I've...plan on future business, i'm not pleased with how they've treated the city of Chanhassen. Lash: ... Hoffman: Old business. They haven't had any, this is their most new business and so i'm thinking that's why we're getting at the bottom of their list. And I don't care, you know we should be at the top of their list. 20 Park and Rec Comrnission Meeting - September 22, 1998 Lash: ... Hoffman: Yeah, they won't be on our list, correct. That's the recourse that I'll be talking about. And then the other one are the picnic shelters and picnic shelters have to do with concrete and the lack of availability of concrete vendors. Although they're starting. The wood is here. The product is here. We inet a week ago last Thursday at Meadow Green and I fully expected to have that concrete in so I'm not sure where they're at... That's the center of the shelter. Manders: Is that pouring the pad is basically what you're talking about'? Hoffman: Yeah, pouring the pad. It's a reinforced pad. The representatives from Miracle Recreation are out at Lake Ann. Ail the wood has been delivered. They're quoting that the shelters are in the contractor's storage yard and so we're just waiting on this concrete first. And he did do Roundhouse Park first and so we pulled him offofthese projects and went out and did some curbing... So playground refurbishment, that's the...park trail is in. Most of our asphalt work is done. Chanhassen Hills, the skating rink light is in and boy, it was working the other night and it really didn't need to be so we're going to have to check on our timing system. Curry Farms Park, half court basketball. The court is in and the hoops to be completed by the 15th. We wanted to let those age and set up a little bit before we put the traffic onto it. Galpin Boulevard. The access road and parking lot and the Phase I playground equipment. Access road and parking lot, we're awaiting mass grading which has commenced and we'll have a picture of what the park looks like and talk a little bit about it's history. Lash: Is that Sugarbush? Hofflnan: Sugarbush, yep. And then Phase I playground equipment is in storage and xve anticipate putting that in with the neighborhood this October. Herman Field Park is on hold. You know that story. Kerber Pond Park. The trail improvements are done. Meadow Green, ncighborhood park picnic shelter. Again that start date reflects when we met and our agreement which the contractor... East trail connector is in. Very positive. Of all these trail connectors, internal trail systems, Meadow Green receives the most comments because it makes a very nice connector from north to south. Minnewashta Heights. That's that Earl F. Anderson problem again. North Lotus Lake Park. Park shelter. We discussed that issue and the park trail. Pheasant Hill. The Phase II playground equipment is done. That was completed early on this spring by volunteers. Power Hill Park. Neighborhood shelter. Same issue with concrete. Prairie Knoll Park. The neighborhood installation, that's been complete. Rice Marsh Lake. We have the shelter and playground refurbishment. Both of our problem projects. Roundhouse Park, Phase II development. Playground and the concrete border are complete. Final grade and seeded, gravel for future basketball court is in and the renovation will be postponed until 1999. This park is just gorgeous. Absolutely wonderful. South Lotus Lake Park. The playground, that's one of the four and then the park trail was deleted by the commission. Stone Creek, that's complete. Sunset Ridge half court basketball, the court's in and the hoop's on the way. Trail construction on TH 7 is complete. Galpin Boulevard is started and they will asphalt about 50% of the trail tomorrow. Powers Boulevard, we awarded them a start date of yesterday and from 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 what I understand it will start tomorrow with striping new top soil on Powers Boulevard. And FYi, their completion is 30 days and so 9-21 will go to October 21 more or less... Powers Boulevard. Great Plains Boulevard is substantially complete. You'll see on the south trail, both TH 101, the northern tier just around Mission Hills and the southern tier received overlays in the past week .... we did not pay for that overlap in the southern section. That was the contractor's responsibility. They damaged the trail in the final grading and so they had to do that. The Bluff Creek trail connector. Hopefully we start 10-1. It's getting less and less hopeful by the day. It all has to do with that terminus point. The Monson's did not like the terminus on their property and so we looked at alternatives. The Edwards which was first not approved by the Council. Now we think they will approve it but underneath a different project and the project will be one of Phillip Elkin's projects. Water Resource Coordinator where it will get money from the State to pay for that land. Council really never had a problem with buying it. They just didn't want to use park referendum dollars to buy it. This is what they call BWSR money which the State choose up wetlands all across the state and when they do that they have to put money in the bank, which is the BWSR bank and then cities can apply for that money where they recreate wetlands to pay back for those wetlands that the State ripped up to build roads. Lash: So is this that piece that you were trying to convince them a few weeks ago? Hoffman: Yep. In the paper, yep. That's the one. Without that we don't have a southern terminus. Without that they can't construct and we can't send them down the trail and not have a point where they can get out to develop the trail. I really don't want to carry it into 1999 but we may be forced to. And then Pioneer Trail/Great Plains is substantially complete. Community park development. Major, major projects. Both are underway. City Center is about a month behind and that's due to the fact that we couldn't close on that Hanson property but xve're working with the school. I recently drafted a letter to all the parents informing them of what the situation was and what we were doing to manage the project. And then the open space acquisition, City Center Park, that piece has been acquired and beyond that we just met with the City Council again and we talked about it at a work session a couple of, less than two weeks ago. Probably 10 days ago. The difficulties faced was acquiring property and the current environment stance with landowners wanting X amount of dollars and nothing else and the city only being able to pay X number of dollars, nothing more because we're a public agency bound by the appraisal process. And so we will either be forced to settle this in a condemnation proceedings or we continue to work with landowners. Current what ~ve are focusing on is the Bluff Creek corridor so we've gone away from any particular one section of land and taking a look at buying a green way from Lyman Boulevard out to Pioneer Trail. That will be difficult as well but these landowners know they're going to sell at some point. The greenway adds value to the adjacent property. So how can we set aside the land today. Use these dollars which we have in the bank to pay for that as preservation of green space. And then you either put the trail in today or in the future once these people have completed the utilization of the property. That's the biggest fear. Setting aside in the future for public is not a big fear but setting it aside today and then having the public scramble through a fanning operation when they're still trying to complete their years on farms is not very preferable from their standpoint or viewpoint so. It's a difficult issue for the commission, staffand council because it's a tough time to buy land in the city. You've got to be paying top dollar. There's nobody moving out there. With that let's just... This is a digital 22 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 camera. We'll start with a rather functional project. This is a catch basin for your future in-line skating rink at the City Center Park. It's not the flashy stuff but if you look at what you have out here today, as we'll see later in photos, we've got a lot of dirt pushing around and moved but underneath the ground is storm sewers, all of the utilities, electrical. A lot of stuff that goes in the ground before we ever get up to speed on actually finishing off and making it. A lot of money just in those type of things. As the pipe contractor out on Galpin Boulevard. Jedlecki and Sons and so they come before Midwest Asphalt and put in all the new piping. All the new storm sewer that needs to take place as a part of the project. They've done that on all of the sections. They are the first ones on the job and so catch basins, storm sewer and all of those things. It's a good deal of money so when you look at these trails and we talk about $40.00 a lineal foot. This is where a lot of the money goes to is actually underneath the ground. I didn't select the transition. This is Galpin Boulevard again. Just farther south at the intersection of Lake Lucy. This is sub-cut, ready for gravel and then they'll be paving it after that. Lash: Is this looking south or north? Hoffhmn: Looking south. From the intersection of Galpin and Lake Lucy. So that's the sign for the new development there which went up offofLake Lucy Road. By the way, if you're wondering, that xvill be complete hopefully by the end of the season so you will be able to drive through east to west on Lake Lucy. Howe: On Lake Lucy? Hoffman: Yep. All the xvay over to Highway 41. Carver Beach Park. It's the park and trail and then the other notable item is that the fence is gone. So the park has opened tip. It provides a much more open feel. Lash: ...west along Carver Beach Road? Hoffman: Looking west, yep. Lash: So that kind of leads through over to the playground equipment back... Hoffinan: Yep. They're seeding and sod... The pole in the upper left corner laying on the ground is the siren pole for that area of town. I like the canoe comment. Florence canoe. Thc fish, there are thousands of crappies this size dead do~vn there. It stinks something horrible. Roeser: What happened? Do they have any idea why? Hoffman: Just virus. They get over populated and it will come out in the paper, an explanation. It happened 4 or 5 years ago down there as well so. They're all too small to eat for the most part. It's a picture for two things. The milfoil, which was a topic of conversation earlier. But then all those lights back there are dead fish. So in the center of the picture is bad but then up to the upper left on the images, hundreds of them just in that one photo. That's the parking lot improvements at Carver Beach. At the main beach and so you now have asphalt, defined parking 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 with a curb so they can't pull over any longer and, the argument down there was always you have designated gravel but then they park off to the sides. We have too many cars. Not enough spaces, etc. so this really defines it...stairs. Lash: From right up where the parking and the parking's right up there. Hoffman: Those are made out of recycled timbers. The interior... This is the park trail coming out of the parking lot at Meadow Green Park. Where it starts and wraps around the tennis court and the ball diamonds and the playground. Meadow Green Park parking lot is also on the list for overlay next year. Manders: Does this trail then go through to that Saddlebrook area? Hoffman: Yep. Right up to Butte Court. This second photo shows where it heads up and then it goes from the south there up to Butte Court. The connector between Butte Court and Saddlebrook Pass or Saddlebrook Trail, and then this connects right up to there. Berg: The field is in terrible disrepair. Manders: The grass is? Berg: There's weeds... Hoffman: That's the next topic of conversation. I think the last person to present before the commission on that was Jay Johnson and at that time his solution was we cut up all the sod, regrade it so it drains reasonably well and then put down. It does not drain properly. It's hard. It's not irrigated. It gets a lot of use. We'll see what we can do to...crew struggles with it. On these newer parks they're developed to drain properly and maintain themselves a little bit better. ...at Kerber Pond Park. This is right on Kerber. Where the picnic tables and the double sign is. Just down here from City Hall. So on the left hand side there you've got the water spillxvay. And then the... Manders: ts there much ora, I don't know if it was in the packet here about a goose problem or geese down there at Kerber Pond. Hoffman: Oh sure, yeah. Manders: Is there a lot or? Hoffman: There's a flock or two down there. I'm not sure, I've not received. Other than Phyllis' comment, I've not received many calls that I've seen down there. This is standing at the tennis courts on City Center Park looking at the Hanson acquisition. We paid top dollar. A pretty penny for what is a pile of clay today. But will soon be a beautiful park with ballfields. This is turning around and looking directly to the south. And way up on top of a stockpile so that will disappear as the project's complete.., south end of the park. That's from the south. This would 24 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 be a property comer, the flag. The txvo flags there. Looking south at City Hall. And a lot of your money goes into the ground and this is one of the catch basins for storm sewer as a part of the park project. City Center had no storm sewer, no drainage and so it was, that's the reason it has so many dips and swales and those type of things. You have to drain the water off and get it out. When you take a piece of land and want to manicure it, irrigate it, make it fiat and utilize it to it's highest degree, then you need storm sewer so you can pipe the water out of the site. Lash: Are we...? Hoffman: Yep. City Center, there's a good deal of money in the ground for storm sewer at City Center and Bandimere Park. The close-up of the concrete border between the playground and the pea gravel. And then the Stillwater State Prison fence to keep the kids in while we complete the project. Down on 101,just south of St. Hubert's church. The northern section of trail. Back up to State Highway 7 and Minnewashta Heights Park and the little basketball court that was added there as a part of the project actually. That was one of their wish list items and the down side, it's smaller than the other basketball courts due to the scope and scale of the park. The hoop needs to go up and then this is also a site that will be renovated tbr the playground, lfyou recall when the neighbors were in they said, always we're at the bottom of the list. Down to Bandimere Park and the curb is in on that concrete, the concrete curb's in on the parking lot. Actually it's the ballfield closest to Highway 101. It's been seeded down in that field and we should be growing green grass within weeks. Your bleachers that you just budgeted for. That's the same ballfield. They have concrete bleacher pads...go over very big. Spectators and the maintcnance people. They'll never have to push a bleacher off the grass again. There's the project team, right in the center there including Dawn and Dale Gregory and...Brauer and Associates and then Bob...project manager for Ingram Excavating. He also lives directly across the street fi'om the park so. That's the second piece of trail just south of Kioxva on 101 so it's south of Bandimere Park. It's really open of the, received the most comments fbr being a picturesque section of trail. Second look as you go through the pine trees. You're just coming onto, coming south onto Pioneer Trail right at this location. Far east end of the trail, if you're just going to Eden Prairie, the view down under the underpass or the bridge over the LRT trail. Currently it does not terminate onto the LRT trail. We go into Eden Prairie for a short section and they have a lift station, sewer lift station project which they have to complete there. And so they put it on the back burner until they get their xvork done. Until they will allow our contractor to come back and complete our other. Franks: Would that be a ramp down to the LRT? Hoffman: Yep. It will be a ramp into the hillside, heading on down. This is coming back north on TH 101. Just out of the Chanhassen Hills development. Not as picturesque as the south side but functional nevertheless. The Chanhassen Hills and Mission Hills are really using this trail. They were on it when it was dirt. They were on it when it was mud. They were on it when it was gravel and now they're on it ~vhen it's... That's your in-line skating rink. With the gravel base down. The...in the center is putting down some electrical lines. So that's what you have today and... 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 22, 1998 (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion. The remainder of the meeting was not picked up by the taping equipment.) The meeting was adjourned by Chair~voman Lash. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 26