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1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MARCH 23, 1999 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Fred Berg, Ron Roeser, Rod Franks, Jim Manders, and Dave Moes. MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Howe STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent (Taping of the meeting began at this point in the discussion.) VISITOR PRESENTATION: MARTY WALSH~ CARVER COUNTY PARKS DIRECTOR~ LAKE MINNEWASHTA REGIONAL PARK. Marty Walsh: ...What's done at this point is primarily the grading for the beach and the sand's been installed...in this area that's been allowed to dry so if you go down to the beach you'll see that there's some... Any questions that you have... Lash: You're eliminating parking? Marty Walsh: They're reducing parking. At this point you still have overflow parking located up a ways. That overflow parking's been under utilized at this point. And we really do need the green space down there. The parking...give us more green space and kind of buffer between the parking lot and the beach area. Franks: When are you looking to do this construction? Marty Walsh: The beach work has already begun. Franks: On the parking lot? Marty Walsh: On the parking lot? This fall. If bids are good, it will be this fall. Franks: Will that close access to the beach or parking lot at all? Marty Walsh: It will have, this parking lot area will be closed during construction. The overflow parking lot will be accessible. Lash: But you're not anticipating starting until fall so it's not during peak. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Marty Walsh: Our contract will likely read no sooner start, no sooner than August 15th and complete by October lSt... There is a permit application. It's a rather lengthy application that's applied both to the DNR, the City of Chanhassen. The Corps of Engineers has review of it and the Watershed District has some authority in there, although it's somewhat limited. So there's quite a lengthy permit review process that you go through. And there's some justification as to why it is that you're wanting to expand the beach there .... and I don't have a color rendering of this particular building. It's a rather small building...25 by 25. The building itself...automated concession stand. It will hold up to six machines and they'll be enclosed behind a block wall with a metal roll up door. Coin operated machines. Two picnic tables. I know you can't see that from where you are...kind of break up that large kind of a garage door look. It's look much more prominent in this picture here but that is actually set back about another 18 feet from... Lash: It's set back 18 feet? Marty Walsh: About 25 by 25 foot building. You can kind of see a side view here. This...concession machine. There's an access door, service door on the side. And then a large room...The next building, park activities building. Really what that is is a large group picnic shelter. Holds up to 150 people... This will be a second flush toilet facility in the park...the primary function of the building will be to service the large picnic groups. Our current facilities are smaller shelters. They maybe comfortably seat 75 to 100 people. This will comfortably seat up to 136-150 people... Lash: Will it be available for rental? How much? Marty Walsh: Right now how much we anticipate renting...that rental fee would be. We haven't decided on a rental fee for this at this point. Our existing rental reservations are, range from $50.00 to $75.00 depending on the time and number of people that you have in the park area. Lash: And then there's a gate fee. Marty Walsh: There's a gate fee. Yes, $3.00 vehicle permit fee for each vehicle that enters the park. We take tallies, if you have a group that's coming in, we'll take the tally for them...in the process of awarding the bid for that and hopefully construction activity will begin in... Manders: Most of that structure where the tables are, that's all open? Marty Walsh: It's open underneath. There's a vaulted ceiling. Manders: So those pieces are just the restrooms? Marty Walsh: That's correct... Vaulted ceiling. It will look something similar to actually the texture of this ceiling... Talk a little bit about the pavement end of it. We hope to get this under construction...parking lot facility. There's also some more funding if approved by the LCMR that could extend the paving in the park area. So that right now that hasn't been approved. As 2 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 they go through the legislative process we would anticipate approval but we won't get that until June or July. We could do up to another maybe half mile pavement of the park. That's one of our biggest complaints at this point in time is the lack of pavement in the park and it does cause us some maintenance problems. And the other thing that's kind of exciting that we've been working on, on the comprehensive plan...interesting things that I thought having lived here, it's taken about if you want to call them 200 or 400 years, whatever to get a population of about 40,000 people in Carver County. In the next 20 years they expect we'll get that. Kind of the 40,000, 60,000 people. Populations of Chanhassen, Chaska and Waconia and Victoria combined in the next 20 years. So if you think about infrastructure and the amount of housing that that's going to take place in the next 20 years. We really need to be kind of up front if we're going to start looking at other areas. If you've been out in the rural parts of Carver County, most of this area up here is agricultural land. There isn't much in terms of trees and forests and other sorts of resources and where there are, the county allows for kind of cluster housing development to take place when a lot of that is really already happening. Areas that would have been either significant wooded areas or along what there is for some of the lakes in the western part of the county. What's been identified here are some search areas. An area between Watertown and Mayer, along the...River. At ...Park, we'd like to expand that facility because particularly...if we could find a farm that wanted to partner with the county in terms of providing some historic interpretations of agricultural practices. We'd be looking for significant historical buildings in the farm and that kind of stuff. There might be a petting zoo, that kind of thing...at this point there's only one house that's near the lake so that has an...It's also situated next to a decent size wooded area and it's very rolling topography...west side of Lake Waconia...offers some very mature oak and maple area. Unlike the regional park here that's planned on the south side of the lake when that gets developed, this particular site here offers views to the city of Waconia. Views to the Waconia Island. Offers a mature forest that we won't offer at the regional park and we're going to offer, or would like to offer, if approved, a service that's significantly different in terms of the amount of development and activity that would be placed there at this particular point. Other areas. We show the seminary fen as an area that the county may have some development. I know Chanhassen's been very active in trying to work with the DNR and acquire land around the seminary fen. The county may have a role in interpreting... It's also next to the regional bike trail so it may make a very nice recreational facility. Other areas shown. The green area is the...Creek. They're still very safe, full of wildlife. There are water quality issues with that but there may be some partnering with a number of different kind of county programs whether it's water quality, erosion, those sorts of things where we may set aside some land for public use. And then the bluff area is the last portion that we have identified and if you've been in Chaska and certainly Chanhassen, as you go further down to Carver, the development of the bluff has really taken shape and there isn't there that much undeveloped bluff land left in the county so our feeling is that we'd like to offer some sort of a scenic overlook of the Minnesota River valley. Allow people to kind of picnic in a safe environment a little different than what the U.S. Fish and Wildlife is doing down there where they're offering hunting and so forth. But may be located in the proximity to that to take advantage of what they are doing down there so we have that area identified as well. The little pine trees shown all across the...significant remaining wooded areas in the county of about a 100 acres of larger in size and at this point they're on our, if you want to call it, radar screen as development starts to go into these areas. The effort to preserve maybe a Park and Recreation Commission Meeting o March 23, 1999 large, significant wooded spot in the county is something that I think we'd be interested in doing... Hoffman: There's no 100 acre stands left. Marry Walsh: There's actually very little. I think the planning and zoning has showed there's less than 10% of the native environment left in Carver County... Berg: We have a dream list too of what we'd like to acquire. How much of this is practical that the County? Marty Walsh: Well initially when we went into the county board we had kind of a thought they might tell us to get out of the room. They didn't tell us to get out of the room so we're hopeful. We're hopeful that they really are going to see the need for this kind of...really emphasize that you're going to have an increased population growth here. Something that you really haven't experienced in the last 20 years. The opportunity to do this is probably just a very small window...settle in with several of the commissioners and surprising even the commissioners on the western part of the county where they have all kinds of open space have indicated that there is support out there. Obviously when it gets down to talking dollars and cents, that's when we really are going to know about...number of open houses. The majority in favor of this. There's been about a 4 to 1 ratio. Survey work in the county has indicated that people are willing to spend dollars to preserve existing natural open space area and look towards the future for additional park areas as the county grows. So we think there's public support for it. We haven't at this point haven't encountered any real negative reaction to what we've indicated. The founding fathers as they are now, we hope they'll see this opportunity and begin making... There are some opportunities that are actually...The county at this point, since this is not an approved plan at this point, has not taken any action to acquire any. Lash: How far west does Carver County go? Marty Walsh: ...regional park and it's roughly 4 miles to the county line. Norwood-Young America's fight here at this intersection...about 25 miles west of here, if that gives you a better idea. Lash: No, I just needed some kind of bearing because I...how far it went. Marty Walsh: Any questions with regard to? Then the last plan, trail vision plan. This too is... active role in the development of trails or maintenance of trails. This plan indicates otherwise. This indicates that we'd be maintaining regional trails. It indicates that the county may have other roles with regards to trails throughout the county. Those at this point in terms of what the county's actual defined role will be have not been stated. Whether it's acquired fight-of-way to make sure that the trail happens or it's the actual development and the construction of the trail. Whether they're on road or off road trail. As railroad corridors become abandoned, if that would happen again, the county I think has strong interest in making sure that those stay in the public domain. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Roeser: They sure blew it between Victoria and Waconia. My god what a mistake. Marty Walsh: That's the recent one but. Roeser: Every time I drive from Waconia to Victoria I look at that and what a trail that would have been you know. Marty Walsh: ...Victoria here where the wetlands just west of the Arboretum. There's some constraints there that may be actually a barrier... Lash: What's TCW? Hoffman: Western Railroad. Lash: Okay. Marty Walsh: We've indicated the three major railroads in the county if they become abandoned, we do have cross sections that would indicate, even if they are not abandoned and there's an active railroad, we can negotiate with them. Right-of-way in most cases is sufficient where you could have combined use. Roeser: Yeah the Dakota rail, that's not being used anymore is it? Marty Walsh: It's being used on a very light. Roeser: It's still a rail, it's a railroad? Marty Walsh: I can't tell you how many times a car goes up but it's not... Manders: ...stops in Chaska now. You're showing some extensions there that's... Marry Walsh: Actually those are very realistic. Carver County at this point has not been an implementing agency for regional trails. It will, if the county decides to do this, be an implementing agency for regional trails... Manders: The roads that are basically proposed... Marty Walsh: ...that's all I have for you outside of this...I'll give Todd some brochures here. Hoffman: Great, thanks. I've known Marty for quite a few years in our association and I wanted him to come and speak to the commission. I think he's going to be a real champion for parks in Carver County and he's breaking new ground and there's a lot of things to be done so we're glad to have him in the county and Minnewashta Regional Park is just one of the examples and we 5 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 happen to have that in town so we're blessed with that. It's nice to see the improvements and we're glad to be working with him. Marry Walsh: It was a pleasure to be able to make it. If there are other things that you'd like me to come back for in the future, let me know. Hoffman: So this is from Baylor? Marry Walsh: From Baylor. Specially bottled. I had a sample one before I came so it was good. Hoffman: Thank you very much. Lash: Thanks Marty. Okay, I was just going to see if we have any other visitor presentations this evening that are not on the agenda. Seeing none, we'll move on to approval of our minutes from February 23rd. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg moved, Franks seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated February 23, 1999 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION REQUEST TO OPERATE CONCESSIONS AT LAKE ANN PARK AND THE CHANHASSEN RECREATION CENTER FOR THE 1999 SUMMER. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item and asked for any questions. Moes: What is the net on each sale? I know it's probably going to be different by product category. Frank Scott: ...it holds twice as much. And then that would be most of our only expenses would be for food and stuff. We would have to get some refrigerators for both sites but, so I guess I don't know what the wholesale prices are for pop. So a quarter I suppose or something like that so it'd sell for 50 cents. But we're not going to do anything, I guess with the Department of Agriculture we could do sandwiches and stuff that goes in a microwave without exceeding and having to go to the Health Department but I'm not sure we're even going to go to that extent this year unless we get a lot of requests for something like that. So I would guess we're just going to double the wholesale price. Ruegemer: Just for the commission's information too. This shouldn't cut into the city's concession operation at all. We close down our operation at 6:00 daily where the CAA then would start essentially their operation so they will have a captive audience up at the ballfield area. I think it will be a good operation for them. Lash: Okay. Any other questions? 6 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Moes: Yeah, can I make a comment on the recommendation at all? Knowing that the CAA has their fund raisers, at the same time they do put a lot of the money back into the city programs and everything. I throw out, I mean I'd feel comfortable with the city requesting 10% you know of the net sales and let them keep a few more dollars for enhancing their programs. Kind of like what they did with the bleachers. I think they came up with a good proposal and everything. So I'd just throw that out. Lash: I want to make sure that we're covering at least the cost of having that refrigerator plugged in. ! have no idea how much that would cost to keep a refrigerator going in there all the time. Frank Scott: I would think that the trash thing's going to be the most expensive. I don't know how you guys do that but I think electricity is going to be minimal. But we will generate a lot of trash and we'll try to keep the aluminum cans separated so we can do some recycling but you know people will only do so much as far as, you can mark the cans and say cans only but you don't know if that's what they'll do. Manders: That brings up a good point as far as policing trash or garbage. Frank Scott: When we leave at night we'll, we have in the past, always just picked up the stuff and got it in there. I'm not sure we'll have time to run around and pick up all the paper but anything that's left on the ground we will. Yeah, they would usually do that. Lash: Well I think this could be a good trial year. Just go with staff's recommendation and kind of just keep an eye on it and see how everything balances out and then if we want to, I'm assuming you'll want to do it again next year. Frank Scott: Yes, and I think for soccer we're going to want to, especially for soccer because we do that on the weekends and that's even better so I think we'll be back in for soccer. Lash: You talking about for fall? Frank Scott: Yes. Franks: I'd personally be okay with having one report at the end of the season but is broken down by month. I don't know if we need to get that information every month. Lash: Actually I'd be, I would have been okay with one check at the end of the season too just to make it, I think this is a trial to see how much work it is for everybody to do this and if we want to simplify it more the next season or get it broken down more or whatever, I think Jerry's got a pretty good plan here to get us started and then we'll keep an eye on it. Anybody else comments or questions? Hoffman: We're glad to have them. As vendors. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Yeah. Is there a motion? Manders: I would move to accept staff's recommendation. Lash: Is there a second? Moes: Second. Manders moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the request from Chanhassen Athletic Association to operate concessions at the Chanhassen Recreation Center and Lake Ann Park. The City will request 15% of the net sales and the payment made by the first of each month through the duration of the operating dates. All voted in favor and the motion carried. LAND DEVELOPMENT REVIEW-REQUEST FOR REZONING OF 6.39 ACRES FROM 1-2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATE TO RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILYI PRELIMINARY PLAT AND CONCEPT AND PRELIMINARY PUD APPROVAL OF 6.39 ACRES INTO 10 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS AND 10UTLOT~ A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO PERMIT DEVELOPMENT IN THE BLUFF CREEK OVERLAY DISTRICT AND VACATION OF A PORTION OF DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEMENT. THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED EAST OF GALPIN BOULEVARD AND NORTH OF STONE CREEK SUBDIVISION, LYNMORE SUBDIVISION, DAVE MOORE. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Manders: I apologize for not being here last time...as far as how this map lays out and the existing trails. Franks: ...looking at, is that the type of a use that they can do with that property? Hoffman: Sure. They can't build buildings in it and those type of things. Franks: Can they clear the property? Can they. Hoffman: Rod, your thoughts are... Preservation easement, the fact that you have one... The Stone Creek Park aligns right along this boundary. That's our common borders and presently the trail which was constructed as a part of the...At one point we talked about a connection, it was very difficult with the grade that we were going to make that happen. There's a bridge... Manders.' Is it all along that treed area? Hoffman: It's on the opposite side. This is Galpin Boulevard right out here and the entrance to, it's called Trotters Ridge. That's the entrance to Trotters Ridge. This is all south of the Bluff 8 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Creek Recreation Center. So there would be a possibility to run some kind of a trail loop through here. Lash: But really no access up into the development you don't think? Hoffman: No. Lash: Because I was thinking that would be nice access for the people in Trotters Ridge to come through there. Hoffman: When we reviewed this initially last year, that's the plans that we had...some kind of trail. This ravine would need to be bridged... Manders: The only reason for the outlot is because it's not... Hoffman: The reason for the outlot is that it's wholly within the Bluff Creek preservation area. Lash: So they can't build on it. Hoffman: Otherwise they would put a road down here and they would put what he thinks would be four $100,000.00 properties. Lash: So, here's the alternatives. Let me just make sure I understand. We get the land in exchange for park fees. So that would then become a part of Stone Creek Park. He keeps it and it's an association owned land for those new homes or he tries to sell those to the people in Stone Creek so they have bigger lots? Hoffman: Correct. And the last two... Lash: Okay. Commissioners comments. Manders: Hoffman: land. So the area then. Meandering boundary. Up to 100 feet or more depending on the sensitivity of the Manders: And so...as far as losing this if we... Hoffman: My opinion is that if they will deed this property to the city for the $8,400.00 it's a worthy acquisition. Currently I had talked with quite a few property owners in that area that deal with children in the park. Within the park. Young children within the park and they use it a great deal for exploration and we can allow a certain part of our community to have access to an area of open space to explore, that child I think for $8,400.00 is a pretty good buy. Lash: Ron? Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Roeser: I agree. I think we should try and get it for $8,400.00. See what they say. Berg: How much more are we willing to go? Roeser: Well they won't do it without us talking to us anyway. Berg: I just wanted to get it on the record. Roeser: ...Have you offered this to them yet? Hoffman: We have made the suggestion that we would bring this to the attention of the Park and Recreation Commission. Lash: I would agree that I think it would be worth pursuing for the $8,400.00. We'd still be able to collect trail fees, correct? And I mean ultimately it stays empty no matter what. However, I think to cover our own basis, I mean this Bluff Creek corridor thing is big right now but who's to know in 30 years or whatever, you know that whole thing could go down the tube and then the association owns it and they decide they want to put whatever there they can so I think it would be in our best interest to try and acquire it if we can to protect it. For generations to come instead of giving up the chance. Franks: I think it's a good idea. My only concern, and we might just have to be prepared for that is so that this falls within the watershed, the Bluff Creek preservation district, and we're going to be paying somebody their fees for property so I think we might have to remember the circumstances here that they started the application process prior to the new zoning so, because we could have everybody then coming in and saying well, even though this is within the district we want our money so I think we'll have to be ready for that but I think this is a little bit of a different circumstance. Lash: The other thing is we'll end up owning it where in other situations we wouldn't necessarily own it. It would just be in preservation. It would be not a big deal to build on it but we're actually, because it abuts a park it would make some sense for us. Franks: Right. But I think we should go forward and say that's our formal recommendation that that occur. Lash: I don't think this sets a precedent for future associations. Franks: Well not to us but I'm saying that every developer is going to see that and they're going to look for an angle so. Lash: Yeah, but I think we can make a pretty clear case that this is, you know it's a case by case situation and this one would benefit the adjoining park where other ones probably. Dave. 10 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Moes: Yeah, I think it's appropriate to move forward with the $8,400.00 amount there and see what their take on it is. Lash: Okay. Anybody else? Okay, no other comments. Can we have a motion? Roeser: I move we accept staff's recommendation that the City offer the applicant full park fee credit of $8,400.00 in exchange for fee title ownership of Outlot A. Lash: Was this discussed March 17th at Planning? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Anything we need to know about that? Hoffman: No further updates than that. Lash: Okay, is there a second? Moes: Second. Roeser moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City offer the applicant full park fee credit of $8,400.00 in exchange for fee title ownership of Outlot A of Lynmore Subdivision. All voted in favor and the motion carried. INITIATE UPDATE OF 5 YEAR PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item and asked the commission for direction on how to proceed with this item. Lash: In the 1999 column, is that our current budget and direction for things for 1999 or is that not accurate anymore? That's not accurate? Hoffman: Our 1999 CIP would supercede that. The one that we have approved and was approved by the council. Lash: So really then for 2000, 2001, anything that's on here is. Hoffman: Still accurate. Lash: Okay. Hoffman: It's still accurate. It's still... With 2000, 2001 you have some sort of forecast of what you were thinking down the road. Obviously we've taken into consideration the master plan so we have master plans on the record for each of these sites. 11 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Do you want us to start, should we just start at the top and go down and see if anybody has anything immediate that pops into their head. Hoffman: Great way to start. Lash: Okay. So I'll just call out the name of the park. If you have something right off the top of your head you know you want to throw out, throw it out and Todd will make a list and then we'll go from there. If we start with sort of our wish list and then maybe next time we can go through and prioritize where we want to place it. Or would people rather just shelf the whole thing and do a work session? Fred. Berg: Sure, I've got a couple items to just throw out that could fit in any places probably. Lash: Okay, well let's just start with Bandimere Community Park. Anyone? Berg: We talked once about some barbecue stands or whatever they would be called. This would apply not just to Bandimere but wherever else we thought it might be appropriate. Lash: Are you talking like concession stands or. Berg: No, a place where somebody can actually barbecue. Hoffman: Grill. Lash: Oh grills. Oh, okay. And then we didn't put play equipment in there, correct? Hoffman: No. Lash: Maybe that's something, we'll probably need a Phase I and a Phase II. Anything else really outstanding that we know. Hoffman: Shelter building? Roeser: There's no shelter building at Bandimere? Manders: Put it on the list. Roeser: Yeah, that's got to go. It's got to happen. Lash: Okay, what else did we take out of there? We took tennis out. We took ice out. Hoffman: Tennis, yep. Franks: Work on the silo, was that? 12 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Oh yeah, put that on. Oh, good. Hoffman: Concession. Concession stand for the ballfields. Or else that could become part of the building itself. Lash: Or maybe we want a small, I liked his little plan for that concession stand with the garage door. You know something like that by the ballfields but then more of a covered shelter area by the picnic. Two projects instead of just one great big. Okay, so we talked about ice and tennis are both things that got cut that really still were in the master plan, were they not? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: Anything else? Bandimere Heights. That's kind of combined now, isn't it? Hoffman: Yeah, combined by the trail but those people still consider it their neighborhood park. What you will see happen is the discontinuation of the use of the field as a soccer field and then that neighborhood maybe come back and see... Jerry brought up a good point. Lights at Bandimere. Lash: We're going to have to bite that bullet one of these days so that's all there is to it. Berg: Maybe the city council can free up some of that extra. Hoffman: That's a good way, when you look at the investment that you make in land acquisition and development and instead of starting all over and building more green space, you put lights up. You add value to what you... Lash: Well we pretty much spelled it out in the beginning. Roeser: I don't think it's going to be a big surprise. Hoffman: It won't be a big surprise. It's the number one issue that people call and talk to us about who are in that area. Lash: Okay, Bluff Creek Park. That's the ravine, right? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Anyone? Carver Beach Park. Is that the mini beach? Hoffman: The up top. Lash: That's the up top one, okay. 13 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Berg: That got a lot of work with the referendum. Hoffman: It's an area where operation and maintenance is pretty much... Lash: Can anyone think of anything else further? Okay, how about the, what's the next one supposed to be? The same one. That's still the top one too isn't it? Parking? Hoffman: Yeah, that's a clerical error. Lash: Okay, and then the next one is the mini beach, right? How about that trail connector thing over to Fox Hollow or Fox Chase or whatever it was? Hoffman: Fox Chase trail connector. Lash: Would that fall under there? Hoffman: It would. Lash: Playground, Carver Beach playground. We had talked about putting in, didn't we talk about putting in some plantings or something along that new trail that went in? Didn't we talk about that one night? ! think to make it just look. Along the road or something. Some plantings. Anything else for Carver Beach playground? Does that have lights over there? Hoffman: No. Lash: Even one? Not even one? Hoffman: There's a street light back in... Lash: How about Chan Estates Park? Is that. Franks: By McDonald's. Lash: Is that the mini park or is that the other one? Hoffman: Mini park. Franks: Didn't we talk at one point of putting a curb cut in? Hoffman: Parking lot curb cut. Vehicle access of some kind. Franks: Of some kind. There really is no room for a parking lot though. So is that something you want to consider? Lash: I can't imagine anything more... 14 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Put in playground equipment and a basketball court. Lash: Chan Hills, skating light. We've already got that in, right? Is there anything else? Are we pretty much done there? Phase I and Phase II? Hoffman: The playground? Yes. The wood structure is serving as... Lash: Master plan. Hoffman: It originally had tennis. Back out. It has volleyball. It has basketball. Franks: Trail improvements were completed. Hoffman: ...parking lot. Franks: One of the other things to consider long range planning though is how the park will be impacted by new 212. Lash: I was just thinking that. Some major screening there would. Franks: There's going to be a noise, a noise barrier wall's going to go up. Manders: There's quite a few trees on that ridge already out there. Hoffman: Yep, it's already been started. Franks: Right, it's already been started. Lash: Put some landscaping probably wouldn't hurt. Franks: See what MnDOT's plans are. MnDOT said that they're willing to work with the areas in putting up their sound abatement. Include the design of the wall. What type of materials are used and some landscaping too so that's what they're saying at their informational meetings so we might want to be sort of proactive when the time comes that we're working with them to...next to our park. Lash: Do you feel like there's enough landscaping? How about Chan Pond Park? It's pretty much done isn't it? Hoffman: ... Lash: Kerber Pond, correct. Berg: That might be a spot for a historical monument. 15 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Yeah. Also Bluff Creek Park. There's no access but could we put something like by that one. Hoffman: There's really no public, well you could put it up on the trail. Lash: Yeah, out by the golf course or up maybe up on the trail or somewhere where you can look down in there, yeah. Hoffman: Those are mostly a plaque, like the state parks. Lash: Something there that would be kind of cool to put is what this is and that it's preserved and natural vegetation that you could find or rare species of wildlife that you'd find there. Those kind of things are kind of cool for people. It might lure them down in there. Hopefully not to stomp all over and kill everything. Oh, the Rec Center. Franks: Grass. Hoffman: It's going to be coming. One year. One calendar year. Lash: How about the playground that was supposed to go in out front? Franks: Has it come yet? Hoffman: No. Franks: There are trees there. Ruegemer: The playground at the Rec Center? Hoffman: No, that's the Lion's playground. We set that out to help with the cash that... Lash: So do we need to add another playground over there somewhere? Hoffman: That's a good question. Lash: The only playground is the school one, correct? Down at that one end. Hoffman: You would build a playground at Bandimere long before you would put one there. And you would put a playground in any other location that didn't have one so it would be a long time... Roeser: If there's already one there, there's plenty inside. Lash: And that's irrigated already right? Okay, so we did that. 16 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Last fall. Lash: Anything else that we need then out there that you can think of? Hoffman: Not capital wise. We have some maintenance items...and we need to get that. Other than that, it's a good facility. Lash: How about City Center Park? That should be done. Hoffman: Done. Lash: You know I was thinking about that when I drove past the other day. That's just going to be a nightmare for the school this spring. Have they contacted you already? Hoffman: Oh yeah, we've been talking with them. We will fence the entire area off from the school so they can play on the hard surface basketball and the two playgrounds. Lash: But how about for their track and field day? Hoffman: It will be off site. Lash: Be off site? Hoffman: It will probably be either in front of City Hall or another park facility. Roeser: They could do it at Lake Ann. Franks: City Center Park skate park. Skate park. Hoffman: Had three youths of the community call me out to the park bench this afternoon and ask about the skate park and he wanted a whole pile of my business cards because it's time to write some letters he explained. Lash: Who was this? Hoffman: A young man. Three young men of Chanhassen. And they were talking to the police and they police told them that's where it was going to happen. I said at the present time it is not, the city council has not given the go ahead and if they want to voice their opinions they should write those. What started it? Oh, the three young men stopped up at City Hall at the front desk this afternoon and asked to see the parks director to talk about the skate park. Berg: I've got 10 to 20 kids that would be willing to come up and start working. Franks: Are we going to have a skate park discussion some time? 17 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Well currently it is the $15,000.00, it's in the CIP for this year and I've asked the council for the go ahead. They have denied waiting discussion of their strategic plan. So we're in a holding pattern. Franks: Let them... Hoffman: ...then you would be the implementing agency for the skate park. And there would be a city formed grass roots committee and people... The items in the packet, those are turn key. You come up with the money and you call them up and it's built. Lash: It seems to me like in City Center we made some nasty cuts of some things too like some landscaping and want to have some trees along some of the trails and talked about the seniors and kind of a little garden area or whatever across from them and was there not supposed to be some kind of a shelter too and we nixed that? Hoffman: Yep, park shelter. There was an arbor that was part of the plan. Landscaping and bench and seating and council has voiced an interest in that as well given the fact that it was more than a passive... Lash: Can you think of anything right off, anything else that we axed from the plan? Hoffman: No. Those were the major items. Shelter...some of the decking and fencing. And the skate park not being completed. Lash: The warming house. Hoffman: Yep, shelter, warming house. Lash: Oh, so that's a combo thing? Okay. So would, see I like his little garage door building. But could something like that work for the warming house too? That door. Could you just close it and then heat it. Hoffman: That building would be too small. 20 x 25 and then it has. Lash: But I mean you know, that kind of a style. You know in the summer you whip open the doors and it's a little covered shelter. You can throw picnic tables in and in the winter you keep the doors shut and turn the heat on. Franks: Like pull the insulated garage doors down on the sides and it's an insta-building. Berg: There's a park near where you and I grew up in Boston that did that. The wanning house there. Franks: That warming house at Boston. 18 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Berg: It was a big open thing and they had I think three doors that shut. It accomplished it very well. Hoffman: Yeah, it's such a...there's a company that does just that. Lash: So I don't know would it be more expensive to do that or would it be economical to do that to be able to combine your warming house with your shelter? Hoffman: It's one of those, you go anywhere from $50,000.00 to $200,000.00 depending on what you want. Lash: No but I mean is it one end or the other? What I'm looking for is it more economical or is it more expensive? Hoffman: More economical. Lash: It is more economical. Hoffman: Sure. Oh sure. Lash: Okay. Can anybody think of anything else for City Center? Okay, Curry Farms. I don't think there's anything going on over at Curry Farms is there Todd? Hoffman: Curry Farms... They wanted a dry trail...and more playground. Roeser: I thought maybe it'd just go away. Lash: More playground equipment? Hoffman: Or better playground equipment. They have some of the original wood playground that we've repaired because of the frost heaving that goes on. It's perfectly functioning. Lash: Okay, how about Galpin. Hoffman: Sugarbush? Lash: Sugarbush, yeah that's the name. Frank: Name change? Roeser: Yeah. Lash: That doesn't cost much. That would fit right in our budget this year. 19 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: The sign is being made. Lash: I suppose we'd better have some trees. Some Sugarbush. Better put that in...yeah, and we were afraid we were going to hurt people's feelings. Berg: They worked so hard at their name... Hoffman: Future trail connection. Lash: Actually that needs quite a bit. 1 mean what do we have there right now, anything? Hoffman: Oh yeah. Lash: I mean we've got the parking lot and the little. Hoffman: Parking lot, trail loop, basketball court, playground. Lash: Oh we do? Roeser: Where's that? Lash: Weasle Park. Hoffman: Sugarbush. Lash: Let's just call it what we know. Well we all know what we're talking about... Hoffman: Water tower. Drinking fountain. Lash: That was back when it had a hill and it got carved out. Wasn't that a high spot? Hoffman: Oh, the well. The well house. Went somewhere else. The soils weren't, the geological information did not... Lash: Okay, so if we do the connection. Hoffman: Phase II playground. Maple trees. You'd have a beautiful park. Lash: Greenwood Shores Park. Roeser: Greenwood Shores, ! think we should put in a concession stand and probably a slide into the water. Franks: I'd like to charge for valet parking. 2O Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Roeser: That one needs perking up. It's really quite a dull. Berg: I'd like to get more people down there. Roeser: Like can we spend about 60 on that one? Berg: What can we do to attract the city to it? Get them into Greenwood Shores. Roeser: How about a Ferris wheel? Franks: You know though really, I was thinking to be fair we should keep moving the no parking signs from one side of the street to the other like on a yearly basis. Lash: Make people think we're shaking it up... Roeser: Well just let it be then. Lash: Is there anything else down there? I'm trying to think. From a wash out or. Hoffman: ...that big oak tree dies and the docks in good shape. We're going to... Lash: Girls, we put one new one in. It got tipped over. But you know this isn't really a money item either but we've got to come up with a better solution for the picnic tables down there. I was down there one time and. Hoffman: Dale's going to put some new in. Lash: Okay, good. Because those poor maintenance guys were over there wading all over the place and trying to find them out there. Hoffman: They're going to cement them in. Then they can just sit and beat on them and try to... Lash: Okay, Herman Field. We never put in the boardwalk, did we? I think didn't we decide we were never going to do that? Roeser: We've never going to do it, are we? Nobody's ever asked for it. Lash: How does that seem to be going over there anyway? We had another big batch of vandalism didn't we? Hoffman: One small incident. It's going better. I think about that park a great deal. You put $50,000.00 into the entrance road...it should have been part of the regional park to begin with but that didn't happen so we have 12 beautiful acres of open space and wildlife habitat and my, I think there's some kind of...at some point where there's an open field or a ballfield back there that's fairly large and if this is going to be open space in nature, it's pretty uncharacteristic. All of 21 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 sudden you drive into this parking lot and it looks like a ballfield and nobody's ever using it so we should probably study what should we do with that. Roeser: Let it grow. Hoffman: Let it grow back and then you've got the playground back there...it's kind of like a bad, bad side of town you're fighting a losing battle with. And do people want to continue to fight that or do you want to come up with a plan... Roeser: Plant wild flowers in there. Lash: Do you have anything from the neighbors? Other than a complaint once in a while. Hoffman: Well we had the discussion on a $16,000.00 addition to the playground. They didn't want to see it happen. The formed a neighborhood watch. That was effective in...some of the vandalism. Their main interest is, and we used it infrequently and... Moes: Sell it or trade it for something. Roeser: We can't give it to Minnewashta. Hoffman: Could. Lash: It'd be difficult with the access though. Hoffman: You could close that access and they would come into the park. Manders: Hook it on to the other side. Franks: They might have the resources to actually bridge that into the park. Hoffman: It's a long question that needs to be answered. Manders: How close or does it border the regional? Hoffman: Oh sure, the whole border. That's all... My understanding was that Mr. Herman did not like the county board at the time or the county so he wasn't going to give that park or that land to the county. He gave it to the city. Franks: If something like that were to happen, what would be the neighborhood park that would serve it then? Or what would we do? Hoffman: There would not be a playground. Lash: Well the closest one would be. 22 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Intermediate school or Minnewashta Heights. Lash: That's a little bit of a jaunt but. Franks: And we just have the older playground equipment at the school. Hoffman: Or they go down to the regional park which is a $100,000.00 playground. Roeser: I mean it's really not densely populated at all out there. Lash: Well there's a pretty good neighborhood. I mean not right around it but because. Hoffman: Linear in nature. Lash: And with the park on the other side but I mean there's a pretty good neighborhood that could access it pretty easily, even just walking or biking. Manders: Could but don't. Roeser: I don't think we've ever been out there. It's totally abandoned every time I've ever been in it. I've never seen a person out there. Manders: Is that totally out of the question to transfer? Hoffman: ...well people would have to buy our parks and there are cities... Roeser: Let's just keep it there in case a deal comes up with the county some time and say hey, this would be... Manders: That's exactly it. Just keep it in the back of your mind. Roeser: Just let it be. Manders: Who knows something down the road. Lash: Well with all this that they're doing and they might want... Hoffman: If you're going to entertain the other avenues, then you're going to be most successful if you allow that... They're going to say oh no. We like our parks just fine. Lash: Well sometimes that's maybe what it would take is well...you guys aren't using it. You don't care about it. If nobody's going to use it, we're going to deed it over and then all of a sudden there might be a little more ownership and they'll say fine... 23 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: I'll talk with some of the people who are, the chairs of that neighborhood watch group. Roeser: See if they want it, yeah. Lash: Okay. Lake Ann Park. Well we've got the interior road. Hoffman: There's not good news on that. Lash: The trail. Keep seeing concession stand come up even though that doesn't ever seem like it ever goes. Manders: ...doing the trail. Hoffman: Yeah, the news on that. We completed the feasibility report...$340,000.00 on the road, the parking lot and $50,000.00 for the trail. Lash: $400,000.00. So two years. Hoffman: So that will be a work session item for the council. The $150,000.00 which was set aside are earmarked out of CIP will not cover it. Manders: Is that talking like totally replacing? Hoffman: No. Overlay is not cost efficient. That's where we were when we first started this. Lash: How's the floating dock down there? Hoffman: What a cost to begin with but long term it's been. Lash: You know I did have somebody, now that, this just popped into my head. I did have somebody mention to me, ask me the other day if it'd be possible to get one of those over at Greenwood Shores. Hoffman: Floating raft? Roeser: I bet you'd get a reaction though Jan. Lash: From who? Roeser: That live up there. Lash: But that's who asked me. In the neighborhood asked me. Roeser: Yeah, one person asked you...bring the neighbors out screaming. 24 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: But that would eliminate some of that picnic table deal in the water too. That's what they like to take the picnic tables out there for is so they can jump off, dive off. Hoffman: The last time we had that discussion it was because the discussion was at Carver Beach and that...neighborhood and at that time we stated that we have one at the community park. We don't have them at the other...smaller parks. They have it because they want it and doing it so I would think. Lash: Well and it was kind of grandfathered in. That was my response to the person who was asked me that. Hoffman: Yeah, I think there would be some legitimacy for if they wanted to build one and maintain it. I think we could probably approach the commission to do that. Lash: Okay. What else for Lake Ann? Hoffman: Soccer lights. Roeser: Soccer lights? Hoffman: For the soccer field. They want equal treatment... Lash: Would there be any future potential in acquiring more property? I mean will the park expand? I know Eckankar's been approached but how about to the west. Is there potential there to buy more or not? Hoffman: Oh sure. There's potential only being that there is open land to the west and to the east. Both those landowners have plans for their property. Those plans do not include expanding the park... Roeser: Certainly west would be. Hoffman: Yeah the 1970 concept plan went all the way to Galpin Boulevard for Lake Ann Park. The commission had talked about an amphitheater similar to Starring Lake at Lake Ann at one time. An outdoor theater. Probably the nearest parking lot adjacent to the beach. That little parking lot which is north, or excuse me, the boat access. So as you drive down to the boat access, off to the right there's a small parking lot... Lash: Would you have to take out that whole group of trees? Hoffman: Well they'd work around them or take some of those out. Franks: I mean it's really nice what they're doing at Starring with all the programming that they do them during the summer. Very popular too. 25 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Outdoor amphitheater and then we've talked about picnic shelters with... Lash: Anything else for Lake Ann? Ruegemer: Do you want to put any money in the reserves? Hoffman: These are acquisitions. Manders: One thing that I think about on Lake Ann... Roeser: I ski in there all the time. Lash: There is a path through there in the winter already that you can. I walk it. Manders: Is that just kind of... Roeser: Well somebody clears it ever year. They go through it don't they? Hoffman: Yep, park maintenance goes through there and clears it. We could advertise it better. Manders: I'm just wondering if there's anything. Roeser: If you advertise it, then you have to almost start grooming the trail or start. Hoffman: Well we'll advertise it as non-groomed because. Lash: But I mean you could easily put up a little sign at both ends. You know is there some kind ofa... Roeser: Beautiful place to walk. Manders: I'm assuming when you're talking about trails that you'd finished that little gravel trail thing in the back... It's kind of up to the top of the steps and then stops. All the way around. Lash: It does already go. It goes to the west and then it just goes down the slope and comes out down by the volleyball sand down by the beach. It's not paved at all. Manders: Exactly... Lash: Pave that through the woods? Why would you want to do that? Manders: It gets kind of. Roeser: You could blacktop it from the upper parking lot down to where the lot steps go down. 26 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting. March 23, 1999 Lash: Oh, oh. I'm not tracking about the same thing. Manders: Yeah, so it's just extending that. Lash: So more down by the picnic shelter? Moes: At the end of the beach. Hoffman: At the end of the beach there's a trail that comes up the back way. Lash: Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Hoffman: To the parking lot by the trees. It was the signature picture for the referendum. Lash: Well I walk that all the time. Why would you want, I would never want to pave that I don't think. Roeser: Well when it's went and stuff, it would complete the bike route around for one thing. You come up to the little thing there. Lash: That's just a fight with nature. It's such a, it's so. Manders: Then it needs to be upgraded. Roeser: Well yeah, if not it needs to be gravel. Manders: It's muck. Lash: Is it really? See I never walk that way when it's that wet. I walk there more in the winter or the fall when it's not so wet. Roeser: It's really nice in the fall. Lash: It is in the fall...you know the other thing that's scary to me is the couple different culverts that come down and then they just, I mean all the gunk is just flowing right into the lake and I don't know is there any other solution to keep that? Hoffman: The runoff was improved since the lake was taken out of ag. And then when, if Eckankar develops any further they will be...to manage the storm water. Lash: It just runs all spring... Hoffman: Yep. The trail needs repair. 27 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Anything else for Lake Ann? Okay. Lake Susan. We talked about the beach thing. Is that going or is that not? Hoffman: It's going. Lash: It is going, okay. Are there other things for Lake Ann? Franks: You know on Lake Susan, with a part of the Villages on the Ponds development that's on the Lake Susan side of Market. That woods. That woods triangle there where the old farmhouse is. That's slated for townhome development or something, right isn't it? Hoffman: Yep. Franks: There's no way to get a hold of that nice piece of woods. Hoffman: Million dollars maybe. Roeser: Oh where that old beat up house is. Manders: Oh, up there. Franks: From the old beat up house down towards where the trail. Down to the lake. I was just thinking that little strip would be a nice kind of. Roeser: Whatever happened to that? You know we talked about that 2-3 years ago. Hoffman: Unfortunately you won the battle on the east side of 101 towards Rice Marsh with that little, you know the soccer field. On the west side you're going to see a significant change. Not only where the farmhouse is. Then as you move down and you go south of the trail that exist. Franks: That little, teeny triangle. Hoffman: Yep. That little triangle between the trail and creek will be obliviated for storm water management. So the trees will go for a pond. So the view there will change dramatically. At the time that the commission reviewed the Villages on the Pond, it was your recommendation that you preserve that set of trees, preserve everything from the trail to the creek and then on the other side everything south of the trail as well. And it's not just to blame the developer for that storm water pond. That is also necessary for storm water off of 101 itself. So it's a pond that will manage their water runoff and the city's water runoff for 101. But it's disappointing. Right now when you walk through you kind of have that nice woods off to your left. That will be a storm pond. Franks: In some ways to me it almost seems better to have the ponding on the other side of 101 instead of on the Lake Susan side. 28 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: The difficulty creek there... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Lash: Is that something we want at any site? Hoffman: Lake Ann will have two. Ruegemer: We're adding another one this year. Hoffman: So it will have two this year. Ruegemer: We have two... Lash: Are those two the most popular or how about Lotus? Ruegemer: It fluctuates. Lake Ann is number one and then Lotus Lake goes a close second. Lake Susan is always kind of everybody's last choice. Hoffman: We don't have the physical land to put it at Lotus. Lash: How about near the boat launch? Ruegemer: ...for parking. We'd have neighborhood concerns. Lash: How about down by North Lotus? Hoffman: No, the lake. Need a pier. Lash: Okay. Anything else for Lake Susan? Is the pavilion holding up okay? Hoffman: Excellent. Lights for the ballfield? Tree clearing? Manders: Down to the lake for sights. Lash: Oh, along the trail? Manders: Yeah. Lash: Do we need new plantings? How about ballfield lights there? Is that a biggee? Is that getting utilized now or not? I mean for a while it was not that many people, not many kids in that league to use it. Ruegemer: A lot of the youth associations feel that that isn't appropriate for certain age groups because it is more of a full sized type of facility. Or the new Bandimere site now is going to kind 29 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 of bridge that gap for the 13 year olds. But it is getting used 5-6 days a week right now. But is there a long term, like 2003, 2004 potential of lights? I don't see an immediate for that right now. Hoffman: What they'd like to do is move the backstops forward to the lake. It's like a major big ballfield... Lash: What would be the problem with doing that? Franks: It could be one of the temporary backstops you know that we could put up for the season that could be pushed forward? There's still the metal cage that are on like the rollers. Lash: Does that make it more useable? Hoffman: Could. Ruegemer: They're using it as is. I mean obviously that comes up every year. Lash: Well you might as well utilize it as much as you can. Franks: Is the outfield too far for most of the, the outfield is okay? Roeser: Yeah, if you ever want a full sized ballfield, you're going to need that. Franks: Right, so I'd hate to see the backstop being moved forward. Moes.' If they use it for Legion ball or something like that, it's got to have a backstop. Lash: Okay. Meadow Green. Manders: The only thing I can think of there is trail connector. Berg: Trail connector is all. Manders: Because we've talked about trail connectors down to Kerber Boulevard at one point... going the other way. Berg: It'd be nice to have some trees or something out by the parking lot. It's so garish coming up there. It's just so flat and awful. Roeser: It really is. Berg: It'd be nice if we could do something to dress up the front of the park there. Lash: You know is there a, didn't we do something with the referendum? Didn't we add some? 3O Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: A trail, yeah. Lash: That's on the other side of Kerber or whatever isn't it? Hoffman: No, right through the park. Right through the center of the park. The trail on the other side of Kerber down through the neighborhood is just planned. And there may be room. I've looked at that connection, now that you can walk there it's real easy to visualize where the other connector would go on. There may be room there on the north side of that creek. We'll have to look at the ownership. That's down to Kerber. The compliments on these trail loops, both the long ones and these park have been pretty overwhelming. People really appreciate what the city and trails. They like them. Starting to make use. Adds value to their life. Lash: Anything else you can think of for Meadow Green? What's the playground stuff there like? Hoffman: Oh, that is going to be the first area to be refurbished. It's the old wood structures that's probably going on close to 12-13-14. It's old. Lash: We should plunk down at least a Phase I. Hoffman: And then...was the other issue but people always bring it up. It goes all the way back. You remember a couple people saying we should cut the sod. Roll it all up and regrade the entire park and roll back the sod down on a weekend so, drainage and turf and the future use of that site, the associations put a tremendous load on it. Our neighborhood, they have neighborhood issues with parking and trespassing. That's one of those things that's almost like don't... If we go in there and start making major improvements to improve use by the associations...so as much as they demand it, I don't think it's very palatable to operate. Berg: It's almost not a neighborhood park now. Hoffman: I'm amazed when I bike or walk by during an association night. That park is just overflowing. Berg: I think if we could close it off a little bit with some trees. Lash: Well that was supposed to be, wasn't that supposed to be our goal when we got all these parks redone was to start taking some of that scheduled play out of, for sure Rice Marsh and. Hoffman: Carver Beach. Lash: Yeah. Once we get City Center up and running and Bandimere up and running, I guess I'd like to, could we put that on for next year about this time? Is there a way that we'd be able to start pulling out of some of those? Ruegemer: Do that in December or January. 31 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Well make a note so we remember to do that. Hoffman: See Meadow Green is going to, unless you change the layout, it's going to relieve that pressure because it is so conducive to field play by it's layout and it's terrain that unless you come up with a change in the master plan to make it more urban in nature or passive play in nature, they'll continue to put pressure on... Lash: Well they can use it I guess I'd say for practices and for things like that on a first come, first serve yep. But not to schedule organized games in the neighborhood parks. We said several years ago we wanted to try to. Berg: It'd be nice to reclaim that for the neighborhood. Lash: You know or set a maximum. Two nights a week or you know something anyway to try and, that was a big point of trying to do all these projects was to get out of there. Manders: Now are we all set as far as picnic shelter? Hoffman: Oh...picnic tables and there needs to be some landscaping around there as well. Manders: Yeah, I mean those things are a part of putting in the... Hoffman: No... Lash: Okay, Minnewashta Heights Park. We just did some stuff there didn't we? Hoffman: Yep. Roeser: We gave them a light. Lash: We gave them some new playground stuff too didn't we? Hoffman: Laid down a basketball court. Lash: Okay, North Lotus Lake. We put in the shelter. Put in some new trail thing right? Hoffman: One of the nicest neighborhood parks in the city. Lash: Is that, that shelter can't be used as a warming house though, correct? Hoffman: No. Lash: We'll have to continue to have the portable warming house there? 32 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: The long term answer for portable warming houses is something staff is investigating and we'll speak to the commission about. Lash: Anything else for North Lotus? Moes: I was going to say that ! think the portable warming house works the best there because it gets much closer to the rink where the pavilion is a little bit of a hike. Then you probably have to plow something out to get people up there. Hoffman: As ugly as they are, they're there for. Moes: Very sufficient. Roeser: It's dark most of the time. Moes: They blend real well with the dark background. Lash: Pheasant Hills. Off of Lake Lucy. Hoffman: They have not made any demands. Other than...put in. They put it in this summer. Lash: Okay, Power Hill. That's pretty much done. Franks: Yeah, except for the rope tow. Don't take your kids down there. Berg: One time down the hill, maybe two. Lash: That's why it got called Power Hill. Berg: Oh, that's a killer, let me tell you. Franks: Especially when you've got to pull two of them up in a sled. Berg: Boy that shelter's in a nice spot though. Lash: You know can we schedule in May or something again another tour of some of these, all these shelters we put in and all this. So that one's pretty much done isn't it? Berg: How about working with the basketball court on the parking lot? Ruegemer: Seems to be working. Hoffman: No complaints. For the most part, yeah. Still differing opinions. Some people...what should happen down there. That's improved 200% since we started down there... They like the, it's one of those love-hate things. They like to walk their dogs out there. Play their golf... 33 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting- March 23, 1999 Roeser: Put a driving range on the top of that hill. Hoffman: Top of that hill. Lash: Okay, Prairie Knoll. Franks: Is that finished, no? Hoffman: Basketball court in. Franks: Do we have other parks with that kind of edging? Hoffman: Yes. Franks: That are holding up? Moes: The pins pop out. Franks: Yeah, the pins pop up. I mean I've already seen the pins pop up over there. Hoffman: They pop up on all that stuff and it has to do with the frost. Franks: Can you do a regular check and pound them down? Hoffman: They're not pounded down... Berg: Did we ever send a letter congratulating those people on their color selection? Hoffman: I will do that. Berg: I think we should do that. Let's be on record as a commission congratulating them on their creativity. Hoffman: Highly visual site. Franks: Power Hill Park, that nice tan and green equipment they've got over there. Lash: Rice Marsh. Phase out CAA. Hoffman: Shelter. Playground equipment. Roeser: They don't play any ball down there any more do they? Hoffman: This year. 34 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Roeser: Do you really? Ruegemer: Just as a commission update. They have backed down their play time down there for this current year. ! think it was just two nights a week. And I think that was only one game so they're really trying to back away from that. With the intention of when City Center and that comes back, I think they're really trying to work towards that goal also. Lash: Okay. So that one's pretty much done. Nothing else to do there right? Round House Park. Hoffman: Oh, long list there. Lash: Round house refurbishment. Hoffman: That should be completed this year. You've got $40,000.00 in there and I talked to two contractors and...get renovated and painted. Berg: What are we going to do with it? Hoffman: Summer playground people will use it this summer. They'll have a playground site there if it's raining or inclement weather, they can move inside. Also 1 would think we would allow neighborhoods, if they scheduled neighborhood picnics to have access to it in case of bad weather. And in the winter it will be used for the warming house. Lash: I knew that was a great idea... Manders: $40,000.00 will do that? Hoffman: Hopefully, yeah. About $24,000.00 in major renovation. $5,000.00 to $8,000.00 in painting and... Lash: How about, I imagine we have a nice sign or something for there. I mean do we want something landmarkish on the round house? I mean do we want to say Round House Park on there? Roeser: You know the trouble with that round house, I don't know if there's any kind of history to it at all is them? I mean supposedly the guy that built it was the railroad. Hoffman: The committee was intending on putting that together. Valuable piece and I'll have to get together with those people again. Berg: Well we can think of something. 35 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: At the round house there's a site, a pad for it and the discussion was similar to North Lotus. I would see Round House as a very similar operation as North Lotus where it's a community separated from the rest of the city and tennis courts could be considered there. In line hockey and that was mentioned...but it made the cut on the master plan as you recall. So tennis court on the master plan and in line skating hockey on the master plan. Lash: Did we have ice there this year didn't we? Hoffman: Open skating. And then second phase of the playground would be on a capital plan at some point. One thing that is really nice ! think, with some of the more recent acquisitions to these park sites and they put them on these prominent corners or prominent locations, I think that adds a lot of value. What public investment is all about. We sit and we talk about a Herman Field, how do we. Roeser: Nobody knows it's there. Hoffman: How do we make it happen or how do we make it valuable and then you talk about a Sugarbush or a Round House, those sites that are right on, very public presence. It really makes sense. And one where we falter is Stone Creek. Stone Creek, if you recall, we attempted to negotiate with the applicant...to put it out on the main drag where everybody could identify with it and he fought that sternly because it wasn't in his plan. He didn't have anything to do, he couldn't use that 7 acres or 8 acres back there. So the theory was he only owed us about four, he doubled that to give us this other land and we took it. But it is back in a corner. It's used but it does not nearly have the presence it would if you put it out front. I think that's something to put in the back of our heads because we're not done developing. Lash: I think it depends a little on the layout. I mean if Stone Creek, say it was the same park, it was just in a different location, it wouldn't make any difference. I mean it's a unique layout in itself that it's just got that small little workable piece on top and then the rest of it is all trails and stuff. It wouldn't matter where you had it. If it would be a particular drawing because you're not going to have ponds or people picnicking on the playground, there's just not enough space. But the quiet natureness in back is a draw for people and I think that people who want to use that, know it's there and will seek that out where Round House, you know you've got the beach and, I mean each one is unique in what it can offer. It's not the same, it wouldn't be the same experience if Stone Creek were out right now to Galpin. Hoffman: ...experience but when I talk to neighbors who live outside of that cul-de-sac, they almost feel like they're in a private cul-de-sac park when they get back there. Manders: Along that same line... Lash: There again I think the acquisition of that was a goofy thing with the developer. Berg: Sunset Ridge too. 36 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Yeah, in the back... Lash: Yeah, but we're going to have access now when that new road goes through. So that will have full access then but, and that's going to be utilized big time if that multiple, multi-family stuff goes in. It's a sleepy little park for now but it won't be. Hoffman: To piggyback on Jan's comment. It's as much about scale as location. That's very small and back in a corner. You know remember Stone Creek, we took the traditional lot. They hadn't even had those on it and similar to Power Hill, we should have taken the two lots that are right them. It makes it better for the community. Makes it better for those people. Should have had those. Lash: Well you know I think the thing we need to keep in our mind, and I think the longer you're here the more you see and more you learn and the more you realize. When the developers come in, you have to stand firm on getting what's best for us and you just can't, you can't cave for a second or you end up with some of these goofy set-ups like what we've got in some of these areas that are sinking and spread all over. Roeser: ...park is turning out pretty good though. Lash: Yeah, but we had to fight. That took a lot of fight and you know the best ones, when you think about it were some major battles like Round House Park. We had some major battles with that developer but we stood firm and in the end we're better off for it and I think we just have to remember that. Tough. Make them cry. South Lotus. Not much we can do there. Hoffman: The trail is one, the trail connector is one that we have to go back with the neighborhood. They deleted that from the referendum so we'll have to talk to the people. I'll make contact with that association and see if they. Lash: Sunset Ridge. Hoffman: The park. Lash: With the road going in, will that make impact on what we're going to want to do there or are we done there? Hoffman: No, we're not done. That may happen this summer. And as a part of those public hearings, the neighborhood has requested a position paper from the Park and Recreation Commission on how that master plan was developed. How it was arrived at, that there would be a parking lot off of Lake Drive extension. And so I will be forwarding that but I wouldn't be surprised if you'll see that back here after it leaves Planning Commission or City Council. The mood is that some of the neighbors do not want to see that parking. Lash: What about the facilities? Do we have everything in there that was on the master plan? 37 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: No, the hockey arena. The hockey boards. That's the one thing not in. Lash: Everything but hockey is there? Hoffman: Hockey and ice. We did not flood ice because there was no driveway access to flood it. With the parking lot and the ice are what's left. The parking lot will be built as a part of the road project we hope. Lash: Kind of backed away from having the hockey all over haven't we? Now we ended up with, back when that was in the plan we were trying to strategically locate some of those. Well now we've got Bluff Creek Elementary has hockey. And we've got Chan Hills with open skate. Hoffman: Yeah, I would not think a hockey rink would need to go there. Lash: Personally I don't see why they would even want it. I mean you put hockey and you almost have to put lights in and. Hoffman: Open skate might be, and open skate is an operation too. It's not a capital. Lash: Stone Creek. Hoffman: Playground number two is what they want. Roeser: I thought the trail, was there a question about stability of going down that hill? Hoffman: It's been asphalted all the way down. Everything that was not asphalt we processed a change order, approved a change order to asphalt down the hill. It's in good shape. Lash: Anything else for Stone Creek? Okay. Under miscellaneous things, I can imagine we'll need a bunch of picnic tables and benches for some of these, all these shelters that have been built and along some of these new trails that have gone in. Some benches. Also that 101 connector along 101. Hoffman: 101 connector north and south. The north piece and then the south piece between Bandimere and Chanhassen Hills. Franks: One of the things that they're saying, MnDOT was saying that they'll have a commitment to making sure that any trail that's been started so, across new 212. But if we don't have a trail in place then they're not going to feel any obligation to make allowances for that by bridging or tunneling or whatever they would do so. We want to do the south connector on 101, we'll have to start planning it I think. Hoffman: Garbage receptacles. We'll come back with a recommendation on that. If you recall the history of garbage in Chanhassen, it used to be brown metal barrels and they rust out on the bottom so we replace those with the blue poly barrels. They're inexpensive, in fact free. But then 38 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 these blow all over the parks and scatter garbage so long term with these trails within the parks, having a concrete pad and a concrete structure...is the way to go. We've been talking about quantity and location for making those... Lash: I would think signage too. If we want to try to get going on some of the historical markers or if we want to have some of those types of things about vegetation or wildlife. If we wanted that at Kerber Pond or if we wanted that by Bluff Creek or any of those kinds of places. Hoffman: I personally inspected the little round signs on top of the street signs in Mankato. They've got them all over and they are very simple. Just two set screws and what they differentiate neighborhoods. Old Town. Uptown... So somebody's making them. They're not... Lash: Other kinds of things. Can they just stay the way they are? ...anything else right off? Ruegemer: Nature center, interpretative center. Is that long range or the arts? ...some type of money set aside for... Franks: We already set money aside for arts. Hoffman: There's a reserve. Lash: How about, what are we calling this? The O'Shaughnessy deal. That's not on here. Hoffman: No it's not...name it. Well the trails are all going in. Well they didn't want that. It's got to be some kind of reserve.., interpretative center. That's the location for it. Community center. Art center. Berg: Asphalt the whole thing, is that the plan?... Franks: Did we get the parking lot at least as a part of the road? Lash: ...but we should start thinking about what we want to do there. Hoffman: It'd be nice, you know the road's them but the preservation to the south is going to be pretty nice. Nice feather in your cap. Hard fought battle turns out to be nice stuff. Franks: Do we have input into the landscaping that will be happening along the road? Or is it all in akeady? Lash: No. To answer your question, no. Franks: I was just concerned about with the landscaping being able to maintain the view shed. That would be consistent with what the view shed is from Highway 5. Hoffman: Well the landscaping is urban boulevard. With a twist. It'd be natural. 39 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Boulevard Park. Hoffman: With a twist towards natural. Okay, I've got enough to work with and I will bring that back and we will fine tune it. No special meetings, congratulations. 1999 GOALS. Hoffman: Goals are one thing. Action items are what I need to make them happen. So you can either, I don't care if you do them all or one or two or three but we need some action items. Lash: ...away here. With the very first one. Do we have a work session scheduled? Hoffman: Yep. It's coming up but I think it's going to be moved. They want to finish that strategic plan before they meet the commissions on goals so. It's a moving target... Lash: So it's not next week? Franks: Not next Monday? Hoffman: No. Lash: Okay, well the first one we can work on. The second one is...should be. Arts programming. Berg: Get some ideas what other cities are doing. Chaska's real proud of there's and I hate to ever use them as a model but maybe it's a starting off point. Roeser: ! think we should use Chaska as a model. They're very good. They're very good at what they do up there. Hopkins is also very good. Hoffman: 7 million dollar art center. Berg: ...little bit of history on how they got it. Lash: You know maybe, you know we were talking about having display things at the Rec Center and all that but could we, I mean even if we just took little baby steps to get started. Like designate one month a year like in the winter or something and have that be arts at the rec center and have lots of programming where you could have pottery classes and you could have, I don't know...Photography. Just I don't know, see what kind of instructors are out there and have it be. Hoffman: Update from Susan. Susan's been working on that. Roeser: ...some kind of effort to put together a community band. I bet you it could be done. There are enough musicians out of college and high school that still like to play their instruments 4O Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 and if you could find someone to put something like Diane Preiditus or somebody to put something like that together I think it would. Berg: That really gives a community some identity too. Roeser: Or community chorus but I mean start with this. Lash: I think the 4th of July it'd be fun to have some of those things. You've got the community band. You've got the choral there. The CHAN-o-laires. What are they called? Okay, long range financing sources. Franks: Is there any way to project what future financial needs are going to be and what current projection of funding streams would be and where they diverge and? Hoffman: I'm thinking along those lines on long range financing to build upon reserves to be a position paper. Something 1 can be in research, published... Berg: And encourage the council to continue with their plan that they're going to let us know in the fall what exactly their philosophy is going to be towards our reserves. Lash: Actually I, we need to have our budget done before then, correct? Don't we start working on the budget in July usually? Okay. I think we need to have some kind of direction and commitment from them by July before we start this process again. What's the point of starting it again if it's not going to go anywhere. Why waste our time if there are other things we can work on. Trends/needs/strategic plan. Is that long range goals? 5 years CIP? What were we talking about for that? Roeser: It sounds like the same thing. Franks: Identifying like recreational trends. What the needs of the community are and how they apply in helping them. I think that's what was talked about with that item. But do we have the means to identify what the needs of the population are instead of just... Lash: Some of these are getting to be pretty big tickets and there's just no way we're going to get all these done in '99. So should we just earmark ones we think we can accomplish in '99 or do you want to have short term '99 goals and then long term ongoing goals? Some of these are going to be long term ongoing I think. Such as I think arts programming is long term. I think the financing and reserve is ongoing long term. I think the trends and needs is probably ongoing long term and we can start working on them but it's not, curb appeal. That's ongoing. We can look short term what are we doing and what can we. Franks: I like those street signs. Roeser: Curb appeal. I'm not sure what curb appeal. 41 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Franks: That's like the street sign idea. And the historical markers and. Hoffman: Landscaping. Franks: Landscaping in our parks. Hoffman: Curb appeal. Franks: Making us look good or making the parks and rec department look good. Hoffman: Curb appeal is what our, we have a park inventory every spring and we take all of our staff and we go out and talk about what's wrong with this park when we walk onto it. What does it need for turf maintenance, etc, etc. Our only limiting...tool is cash to do that. You know we say we're going to plant trees here and landscaping and then...budgets to do those. Smaller ones, we go ahead and do. The larger ones we have to fit into... So the commission knows. I have a strong conviction, as does Dale, in that it is worthy, it's not worth adding additional land to our...if we're not taking care of what we have to pay. And we are going to be challenged with the addition of Bandimere Park. If you drive around Bandimere and you start thinking, alright they didn't add any more maintenance staff from last year to this year and now they've got the park which could consume two full time people, five days a week for maintenance. Something's got to give. So we'll continue to ask for that person next year and where we've added is seasonal staff and seasonal staff...get things done. They're also difficult to manage so. Lash: When you guys do that, what do you end up doing with, that's basically you end up with a wish list. Hoffman: Long. Lash: And what do you do with that? Because we don't ever see that. Just try and chip away at...out of that other budget that we. Hoffman: Well it's typically operation and maintenance. So it's Dale and Dean's, Dean Schmieg is responsible for the list. Last year it was over, probably 300 items. It's maintenance and operating. Lash: I mean if you came in and said you know this park is really lacking in landscaping and we need, you know this needs a beauty makeover. You know I see that as something that we could put on CIP. If you guys look at that and you think it's really a high priority and it would enhance that park, I wouldn't have a problem with that coming out of our CIP if that means it's going to get done and it won't any other way for a few years. Manders: That's one of my listed items here. It's worded differently but it's exactly what I'm, maintenance. Quality of what we have. Trail maintenance. 42 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Franks: I hate to say it but when the council's going to hold us to 6% growth in our budget and we've got a 35% growth in the amount of facilities we need to take care of, it just doesn't match up. I agree. I don't know how we address that problem. Hoffman: Lobby effectively for it. We need to discuss it. Lash: Yeah, that's a work session item. Something is out of balance and it doesn't take an accountant to figure that out. Roeser: Yeah you can't spend what, how big was the referendum? Hoffman: $4.9 million. Roeser: Right. You can't spend that kind of money on trails and parks and then just let it be. It's got to be taken care of. Lash: Not have any maintenance money allocated for it. Open space acquisition. That's already programmed... Hoffman: The council has asked us to move forward with the acquisition of the Fox property. Meeting the attorneys. Roeser: Frank's just kicked it up another 10%. Hoffman: We will seek an appraisal of the property. Make an offer and go from there. Lash: Okay, the 101 north trail constriction. I don't see that as being a necessarily a major thing that will take a lot of our time. Roeser: That's really not in our hands anyway. Lash: That's just going to happen when it happens, isn't it? Hoffman: Again we should send a position statement to the groups that are working on it and inform them that it is still the number one priority in the comprehensive plan. Lash: The south trail connector however I think...That's definitely a missing link. If there's a way that we can scrounge up the dough this year to do that. I mean in our next budget that needs to get done. Hoffman: Just remapped the whole city today. It's amazing what has been added since the last addition of that trail map. And this is the biggest missing link in the whole development. Lash: Okay, the skate park. 43 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Berg: Lash: Berg: Lash: Franks: Roeser: Lash: I thought it did. Franks: I think it was Mike. Hoffman: We continue to work on it. It should be a work session item with council. Lash: Update the 5 year CIP. We've got that in the works already. Work on interpretative programs. I think we just mentioned the O'Shaughnessy thing. If we start trying to come up with a plan for that and that's mostly what you're talking about there... We thought of using the round house once for something like that too. Interpretative house? Oh, that was one of the things we bantied about... A library out there too. Getting back to the business of parks. Who said that? That wasn't me. I haven't... Sounds like Rod. No, I really do. I think it was. Berg: I think it meant maybe a little bit about what you were talking about. Manders: Taking care of what we have. Berg: Taking care of what we already have. Managing what we have. Lash: Okay, so did we give you, it says identify an action step or two. Well we talked about relations with the council. Work session. Hoffman: I've got them. Lash: We're covered? Roeser: You've got a pretty good start there. Lash: Okay, so we'll move on. RECREATION PROGRAMS: EASTER EGG CANDY HUNT UPDATE. Ruegemer: Any questions? Franks: None. 44 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Berg: Go for it. Lash: What time? Ruegemer: Saturday, April 3fa. eightish. 7:30. Lash: 8:30ish. Ruegemer: You can help judge. Lash: Yeah. Roeser: I'll get back to you on that. Lash: Who do I judge with? Ruegemer: I'll set you up. Just use your best judgment. Okay, anything else for that? RECREATION CENTER. Lash: We got Susan's report from the CRC. Does anybody have comments or questions on that? Hoffman: These will, we'll make a recommendation to increase fees. After our meeting on April 1st, one of the discussion items, item number 5 on there is we're meeting as a staff on April lst. One of the discussion items is raising fees... Lash: Fees for what? Punch cards. Hoffman: Lash: Oh! Hoffman: Buck and a half most likely. $2.00 to $2.50... Berg: What kind of competition are we expecting from this new place? Hoffman: Oh it will certainly pull fitness users but I don't think...They're going to go down there. Get hooked. Spend a lot of money and they'll find out they can come out for half the price at the recreation center so I see it as a good thing. Berg: Down by the movie theater there's a fitness center. Franks: In the old frontier building. Lash: What's it called? 45 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Roeser: It isn't open yet is it? Hoffman: ...it's a chain across the country. Lash: So is this going to be bumping out this other one that was thinking of? Berg: That really is big. Hoffman: Nitch market. Lash: Anything else on there? Franks: ! do notice that preschool indoor soccer has a waiting list. Lash: It's in full swing. Hoffman: We're bringing that back to the commission as a discussion item as well... We're going to get that burr out of your side and get it out...talk about it. Lash: ...problem talking about it. Hoffman: We know that. SENIOR CENTER REPORT: Lash: Okay, here's the senior center report. Anything on that? Hoffman.' Dawn will be leaving next week. Kara will be back next week. Berg: Thank Dawn for us. Hoffman: Yep, I will... PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE: No Questions. ADMINISTRATIVE: BLUFF CREEK TRAIL: Hoffman: Informational to let you know that it's still coming. The plans are just about complete and then we will ask Midwest for a price. If we do not like their price, it will go out to bid. Lash: This is the one thing we didn't get done. Didn't get started. 46 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Right. BLEACHER INVENTORY: Hoffman: Hottest topic in the state of Minnesota. Roeser: That's going to have to be something, you're really going to have to change bleachers, right? Hoffman: We will cut these in half. Roeser: You'll cut them? Hoffman: Cut them in half. Franks: Cut them down to 30 inches. Hoffman: Cut them down to 30 inches and make two out of them. Franks: And you can do that? Roeser: And put a railing around it, is that right? Good idea. Franks: Then we can move them around too. Hoffman: You don't have to spend $800.00 to fix them. REQUEST FOR MEMORIAL TO KRISS MAHER~ JERRY MAHER. Hoffman: From Jerry Maher. A memorial to his wife, Kriss Maher. And the proposal Jerry contacted I guess it was a couple months ago I talked with him, with Jan as well. The concept here is to create a walkway off of Lake Ann trail with pavers and some sitting areas and concrete footings. Jerry called in because we had mailed him a copy of the packet and he didn't know if that meant we wanted him to attend or not attend. At that time we asked me what I thought about it and my response was I didn't know the appropriateness of pavers for vandal reasons or... feeling of putting this kind of a statement along the trail between Lake Ann and Greenwood Shores. He's responded with a letter so I'll pass that to the commissioners. The memorial is a proposal, it's not just a tree in a park with a plaque so I think I want to hear the comments of the commission. The Planning Commission and City Council for sure would also want to see this prior to it being approved. I think it's one of those things where the commission approves such an improvement and it went in and somebody walked by and they would go whoa. How did this get here? So they'd probably want to see it. And I think the real issue is, when these memorials come up we should probably have some parameters in place. This is a great plan. Beautiful memorial but is it something that the commission would like to see... 47 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Lash: Okay, we'll open it up for comments. Dave. Moes: The comment that, or the question I have is the only other time that we've done something along this lines was a bench, is that correct so far? Hoffman: Bench or trees. Moes: Bench or trees, okay. That's really it. I'm just trying to stage myself. Lash: Rod. Franks: Well, in a way I'm sorry that we're in this position. I wish that in some sense we can't anticipate everything but we had maybe already created some guidelines because saying no, or potentially look at saying no to something that's very heartfelt to someone and they've got very good reasons for doing it is really tough for me. But I think that it just underscores for me the necessity for us to maybe do some work on this and come up with some guidelines and what types of memorials we can offer to the public. And maybe even go as so far as to identify sites throughout the trail system or city that be acceptable really to our park system in general. Where they could be located. Then in a sense we're never in a position of having to say no but we're saying here are your options. We're basically saying yes and you can pick rather than having to turn something down, which is a bad thing all around so. But I think this is a pretty significant project what Jerry's proposing here and I'm not so sure that that's how we want to go so. Right now I'm kind of thinking I'd like to come up with something else that we could offer not only Mr. Maher but also anybody else. Lash: I made a note too that, and I know that we discussed this a few months ago that I would like to have some type of a pamphlet or something that we can offer to people who wish to create a memorial and it would have listed, Rod said options. But we'd have to have a major discussion about what kinds of things we'd like to offer so that we have very clear guidelines and suggestions and possibly vendors so that we have maybe some type of consistency or some type of control. I'd be open to having suggestions you know like maybe here, here, here. Different places where you'd like to see something happen but I wouldn't want to be quite so defined about that because if they live in a particular area that those particular people really utilized and it's very meaningful and it wouldn't detract from that site, that we could be flexible enough to say yeah. You can plant a tree here or you can put a boulder here or a plague or a bench or a birdhouse or some kind of thing like that. That we could have some flexibility there but that we do have some guidelines to provide. Fred. Berg: I agree. I agree we should have some standards. I'd support putting this in. It's...what I've always like about this town is the whole sense of here's a community that cares and hem's somebody who wants to leave this memorial and it's certainly not detracting from, it's adding to the beauty of Lake Ann I think. So I would like to see us set some restrictions but I have no problem with this one. Lash: Ron. 48 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Roeser: I agree with everything Rod said. I don't really feel like this is a good idea though. This one seems a little bit over done. A little too elaborate. I think the bench idea is a marvelous, or that kind of thing or something where we can get into some sort of, like Jan said, offering people this is what you can do as a memorial. This thing is, it looks like it could be vandalized in a lot of ways, and it just doesn't I just think it's too much. I really do and if we start letting people do this, then what's to keep the next one from being bigger and bigger and so I agree with Rod that we should probably set a goal and standard. Lash: Jim. Manders: ! was set to say that I was for this. But I'm more inclined to follow Fred's. I hadn't thought about some of the...but as I think back to some comments...I would be concerned with vandalism...I guess I'd be inclined to say yes on this. Lash: Just to speak on Jerry's behalf. I mean Jerry's my friend. Kriss was my friend. I know exactly where this site is and he has put a great deal of thought into this and I've tried to help him with some guidelines as far as ideas of you know how he would feel if there was vandalism. I think he's put a lot of thought into how he could do this and get maintenance free and ! know nothing can be totally vandalism free. I'm not that dumb but I mean he has put a lot of thought into how can he anchor this permanently. Like the back supports are that recycled wood looking plastic stuff you know so it's not something that could be carved in or burned very easily or picked up and carried, you know thrown into the lake. Everything is going to be anchored into the ground. That's part of his thinking I think with the paver stones is so he can have everything anchored into the ground so it can't be picked up and carried off or thrown into the lake. Those kind of things. So I know he has put a lot of thought into the vandalism and he wouldn't want to see anything. If something did happen I know he'd be the first person down there to fix it. So I think it's a beautiful tribute. I do think it does open up the discussion for us and that, I'd like to have flexibility but I'd like to be able to offer direction to people who come in who may be, wouldn't be as able to devote this amount of time and energy and thought to it as Jerry's been able to do in his time. Right, but if somebody came in and said I'd like to do something, you know my husband died but he loved wood ducks or whatever. Is there something, is there a good memorial and we could say sure. You know at Kerber Pond we have, we'd like to put in wood ducks so we'd like to put up a plague explaining why this is a habitat for a wood ducks or whatever. You know just but to give them some choices and some guidelines and not that it all has to look the same or be a teal colored angle roof but that's ideas and things that we would all find easily acceptable. So no one would have to feel like it doesn't fit in or it's over done or any of those kind of feelings that people might be feeling. You know unfortunately we may have some of those feelings but I don't think we've set a precedent and we haven't set guidelines. Now a position where we have to make a decision and then from that go forward and figure out how we're going to, what we're going to do. Didn't you say Todd one time that other cities have programs like this? So could you get some of their information and we could take a look at that and see. 49 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Yep. A couple different ways they look at it. They either do one location where there's a tree or a memorial tree garden or a memorial rose garden or they put in, they allow an option to put it in different sites. Moes: Over the years how many tree options or I guess bench requests have we moved forward with? Roeser: Probably two. Lash: I think this is the first one we've had. We did that one for Dave but have we had others? Roeser: We had a bench though. Hoffman: Don Andrus. Lash: Oh yeah, but that didn't come to us did it? It did? Because I don't remember that coming to us. I just heard it went in but I didn't think that it came to us for approval. Roeser: So there hasn't been a lot. There hasn't been a lot of this going on at all Dave. Moes: ...I've been here a short time and I'm wondering you know over the years how many other requests have come up and how they've been handled. Hoffman: There have been trees that have gone in but not to your knowledge. Franks: I'm thinking, my feeling is that, not that we would want to go out and market it but if we have this available I think it would be nice to let people know. I think we probably would get more requests. That hey this is available. What a neat kind of like living tribute or ongoing tribute or memorial to someone and we can have it right here in our city. They might not really even know, or aren't thinking of that as an option. I mean when I walk around like Woodlake Nature Center as an example, all the memorial benches, they look the same but what that does to me is it makes me look around the side of the bench for the plague because I know that this is a memorial bench now and so I want to see what it is. And I don't know if we want everything the same but there's something to be said for understanding what that bench is when you walk up to it. The other thought I had Todd too was to create something like a menu choice. People might even be able to combine...wood duck house or let's have a, and then the pricing is just ala carte so to speak. Lash: Or, I'm just throwing this out. This could complicate it considerably but say they wanted to just start a memorial fund for neighborhood parks knowing that they'd have $500.00 but that's not what they really wanted in their park. What they want in their park is the next phase of the playground equipment or picnic shelter and we wouldn't have a problem with it so they want to start a fund, a memorial fund and once there's enough in that fund the plaque would say, in memory of neighbors, half a dozen names or whatever. We could do bigger items that way. 5O Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Roeser: Well we know we've got to talk about this some other time really but the problem at hand is for us now and did you say, whether we approve it or not, it still has to go to the council, right? Hoffman: It should go to the council. This is a significant enough public area and a public improvement that there's going to be questions of whether or not it's appropriate to construct this expensive of a memorial in a public setting... And that's just, ! echo Rod's comments. That it is at the point where we're at, I knew about this proposal early on but I envisioned a bench along side the trail in the woods and I had no concept. Roeser: Do you think this is too big? Too much? Hoffman: Well, you know this one individual resident and not that every person's going to have this inclination to do this. And it is a privilege to construct this type of memorial on public property and it needs to be reviewed in a proper fashion...so I don't think it can be taken lightly on any side. Moes: What is the total length from the existing asphalt path from I guess the shoreline? Is that 10 feet or is that, is the 10 feet just the circle there? Lash: 10 feet, the circle I believe is 10 x 20. Moes: Okay, and then what's the. Lash: It's probably about another 10 feet. Moes: The neck part of it or whatever you want to call it, the trunk of a tree is that's what. Lash: It is a perfect spot for an overlook. As a matter of fact it was my suggestion that this be the spot for a bench and I told him if he didn't take it, I was going to earmark it for me. Because it is. It's a beautiful spot and it's a natural place where some trees have been taken out. I think part of his thinking with the paver stones is that if people would happen to be in a wheelchair or people who are, have buggies or whatever...that it's accessible hard surface and that would. And the other thing is that what makes the bench and pavers. Berg: I move we recommend to City Council that they give permission to Mr. Maher to build a memorial as stated. Lash: Is them a second? Manders: Second. Berg moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council give permission to Mr. Jerry Maher to build the memorial to Kriss 51 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Maher as presented. All voted in favor, except for Franks who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 5 to 1. Berg: What about another motion to, we don't need a motion for that right? But we'd better get it on the agenda obviously. Roeser: Yeah, we've got to talk about the plans. Lash: So staff will bring back to us. Berg: At least a starting point of what other cities. Hoffman: Memorial pamphlet. Lash: Do you want to, for the record. Franks: Yeah, I can't vote in favor of the motion prior to us in a sense considering what the impact of this is going to be without heating what residents or users would have to say about this type of extensive improvement along the trail. Their family's not the only one that uses that trail and them certainly could be other people that have quite a different opinion. We're looking at not just a bench, like you say, but a 20 foot diameter half circle with you know planters and benches and. If this were another type of issue that would be putting in like some of the developments in the park or like the light over the skating rink, we open that up to some kind of public hearing and public forum to see what people would have to say. We're kind of not doing that. That's a couple of the reasons that make me unable to vote in favor. Lash: Okay, thanks. The next item was, Todd you wanted to talk about employee recruitment? Hoffman: Jerry can announce. Ruegemer: I had that on my list. Just a FYI for the commission. We have hired a Recreation Supervisor. Her name is Tracy Peterson. She'll be coming to us from the City of Arden Hills. Has a lot of great experience in running playground programs and other types of programs and operating skating rinks and special events. So she really is going to be a great asset to our department that can come in. She's going to be starting April 5th. She can just come on in and hit the ground running. She's going to do a great job for us. Hoffman: The second one is department secretary. We interviewed the final three candidates today. We made a selection but we haven't offered the position yet but very...individuals so I think very fortunate to hopefully have two employees which come highly recommended and will offer wonderful service. Lash: Oh, gmat. You haven't offered so you can't say. Hoffman: No. 52 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS: Lash: Do we have any? No? Manders: The race thing? Roeser: Is there anything happening? Lash: Not for this year I don't think. Didn't we say it's already too late? Franks: A lot of runners in this town. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: Roeser: You know something that I asked. I noticed you've got a crossing on Kerber Boulevard. Crosswalks for people to get from one side to the other down there by... Are you going to do that in Shorewood too? Because when you're biking out of Excelsior you're going to have to cross over to get on the trail you know right there, right at the border between Excelsior and Chan. Hoffman: A cross walk? Roeser: Yeah, at least some kind of marker which people will be crossing there. You know if you get on the trail to come back to Chanhassen, if you're biking out of Excelsior on the right side of the road, and then you've got to come across to pick up the trail again. There should be some kind of warning or something. Hoffman: You have to have a stop sign to have a crossing. Or, I'11... Roeser: Because yeah, it's something to think about because if you've got kids and stuff. Manders: How are the sight lines for that? Roeser: They're not bad. They're not bad but it's ain't great. It's before the 30 mph stop sign start coming in which is, you know people are coming down past that pond or getting close. There should be some kind of warning sign or some kind of something that indicates there will be bikers crossing the street there. That's all. Lash: Okay. Anybody else? Franks: FYI. Sounds like Shakopee is going to be putting a parks and recreation referendum to their voters in the next year. They're going to look to add probably...ice sheet and maybe indoor aquatics. 53 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting - March 23, 1999 Hoffman: Shakopee, Champlin, who else? There's going to be a resident coming forward, he was going to come tonight during visitor presentation but he got called out of town so he'll be coming next week to talk about his desire to... ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET: Lash: Administrative packet, anything on that? Okay. Manders: I have one thing. Is this Ron's last meeting? Hoffman: We hope not. Next month. Roeser: I'm not sure I'll make that. Lash: Okay, is there a motion to adjourn? Roeser moved, Manders seconded to adjourn the meeting. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned at 10:15 p.m, Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 54