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1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MAY 25, 1999 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Mike Howe, Fred Berg, Jim Manders, Jay Karlovich, Rod Franks and Dave Moes STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Tracy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Jerry Ruegemer wanted to add an item regarding Lake Ann under Administrative Presentations. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Howe moved, Berg seconded to approve the Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated April 27, 1999 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. RECEIVE PROPOSALS FOR PROJECT ASSESSMENT REPORT: THE "ROUNDHOUSE"~ ROUNDHOUSE PARK~ 3950 KINGS ROAD. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: Would it be possible for them when they give us this to, I mean I think we're all prepared for the fact that it will probably be coming in over the $40,000.00. Would it be possible for them to break it down in some way where it could be like a Phase I, Phase II kind of thing. So that we could look at it smaller increments that might be more affordable for our. Hoffman: Okay. Manders: Yeah, interior, exterior. Lash: However, I don't know. Howe: Todd realistically, how much can we expect the volunteers to do on this? I know there's a group there on that Kings Road that would work on this, right? Hoffman: Yes. Howe: That's way out of that league. Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: If we're talking an $80,000.00 project, they can probably influence maybe $5,000.00 of that project. Give or take. Not a major, if they wanted to take it on as a neighborhood project. Give them the money, then you can take. In any project like this, especially in the small projects, materials and supplies is going to be well over half of the budget and so there's going to be $50,000.00 in materials and supplies going into that thing and maybe $50,000.00 or better in labor. If you were willing to give the project to the neighborhood, you could probably knock that percentage off of a construction job but you're not going to find a neighborhood that's willing to take $50,000.00 worth of material and turn it into a professional job. That's unrealistic. Lash: Would you or this outfit be able to also give suggestions of what type of things the neighborhood volunteers could do? They could paint. They could landscape work I would imagine. I don't know what other kinds of things. Karlovich: It's the normal like everyone wants to refurbish their homes. Does that make it any more expensive that the question? Lash: You mean as opposed to ripping it down? Karlovich: Ripping it down and starting over. Is that cheaper? Just looking at that foundation, it's in bad shape. Hoffman: Well the foundation, yeah the windows has holes in it. The foundation is essentially sound. You can rip that structure down and build new for $80,000.00 or less, depending on what you want to build. You could spend additional dollars. It's all centered around the Roundhouse Park name and the landmark and those type of things. Anytime you tear a structure down to that point, you know you're not going to be left with much. That's why the Phase I, Phase II, inside, outside really doesn't work. Let's say you take the roof off, you take the windows out, you take the second floor out. Inside is outside, outside is inside. There's no difference. You know you've got to build a new roof on it and there's really a tough, there's a difficult line that you try to decipher between Phase I and Phase II. You know one neighbor keeps bugging me, he'd just like me to go out there and paint it green. Or brown. And I'm saying well, unless the commission directs me to do that, I'm not going to throw a few thousand dollars away. Lash: Well it needs a whole lot more than paint. Hoffman: Yeah, that's just a temporary measure. Throw away measure. Take away the... Lash: Anyone else have thoughts? Howe: Well I think we should go ahead with this and see what they come up with. Don't you? For $1,200 bucks or $800 bucks. I mean see where they stand. Manders: I don't think we can make any kind of decision without this evaluation .... decision would be over...but I think this would support it. 2 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Franks: Have we worked with Locus before? Hoffman: No. Franks: When I was looking over the letters that they sent, the one from JEA. I didn't like the price that they submitted compared to the price that Locus submitted but they were certainly more thorough and more complete and they were very up-front in stating that there might be other types of services that would be needed and then here's the menu option of the hourly rates for these services. I'm just wondering if $1,200 actually buys us something that's going to be useful. Or is that just, we're going to need to add onto that $1,200 with the Locus Company also to get that useful document that we could maybe get from JEA. Hoffman: I'll ask them to clarify that. It wasn't my impression. Locus came recommended by Hoisington-Koegler Group. Paul Page who worked on the neighborhood park projects. I sent them the RFP. They said we're not really architects. We're landscape architects so here's a firm that we work with in our business. It's a small firm. Two gentlemen. Came highly recommended. But I'll talk to them about that. I'll ask specifically. I think the engineers support...that structure so I don't know that we want to take that out of there but I'll ask them for $1,200. Before we sign that, just spell out a little bit more in detail. Lash: Okay, can we have a motion? Manders: I'd move that we pursue the proposal for $1,200 evaluation for Roundhouse Park for whatever amount it comes to... Lash: Is there a second to that? Franks: I second. Manders moved, Franks seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the City retain the firm of Locus Architecture, Ltd. To complete an assessment of the Roundhouse project. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. PREPARE A RECOMMENDATION FOR OFFICLAL NAMING OF THE "O'SHAUGHNESS" OPEN SPACE~ BLUFF CREEK OPEN SPACE~ AND LAKE SUSAN OPEN SPACE. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: We had the opportunity to drive through all of them tonight. Anybody, well Mike. Do you know where we're talking about? All of them? Okay. Anybody have any inspirations? Manders: I was going to go with O'Shaughnessy Preserve but apparently we can't use that. Is that true? 3 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: That was her wish, yeah. We asked her that specifically at her award presentation at the City Council. Be anonymous. Manders: Then I think we were talking about... Karlovich: Is it the west branch of Bluff Creek that runs through the O'Shaughnessy property? Hoffman: It's one of those things is if you name it after places, streets...geographic features. All those kind of things. Manders: Are we going to have some kind of interpretative center or is that not going to happen? Hoffman: It could happen. Manders: Build something into that idea. Lash: Probably put in something Nature Preserve. That would sound like, the Lowry Nature Center. Moes: That or shorten it. Instead of going anonymous should just call it the Nessy Preserve. That has a little bit of a ring to it. Lash: Shaugh Nature Preserve. Moes: I'd go with the Nessy. Berg: This not the O'Shaughnessy Preserve. Lash: Okay remember this. It does have a tendency to come back to haunt you. Hoffman: The Preserve idea is really where you're all headed for this? Anybody like or dislike that? If you call it preserve, then you are locked in. Lash: Is there anyone who has a problem with using preserve? We talked, we were talking in the van about the idea that some of us liked the idea of having preserve at the end because it sends the message that it is being to be preserved. Franks: Does that limit what type of, because it carries that classification by name, does that limit the type of development even we can? Hoffman: Only by name, not by policy. Franks: Only by name, not by policy. 4 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: ...80/20 policy. City of Chanhassen does not... Manders: But I mean what else are we going to do out at that park? Other than preserve it. We aren't planning on putting any kind of active stuff in there other than trails, right? Howe: Over our bodies I think. Manders: That's what I mean. We're not planning to do a lot of other than maybe do the interpretative type of thing. Franks: I like the idea of using a word like preserve or some word like that, if it's not the word preserve but to kind of signify all these areas so when people look on the map, they have some kind of understanding about what that space is because it's like these other spaces over here. If I've seen the Bluff Creek Preserve, I'd know what that area at Lake Susan is like. Or what to expect when I go there on the trails. Lash: Maybe if we went to some of the other ones they'd be easier to start with. The O'Shaughnessy one I think is the hardest. Moes: What does the title or name preserve carry with it? As far as what you can do with it you were mentioning. Hoffman: Well it's just the image. Once you name it, you know three councils from now and two park commissions from now and a bunch of new citizens from now, they come back and say oh, well there's a nice piece of dry space in that park preserve. Why don't we put a parking lot and a playground in there? Well, that's a preserve. You can't do that. Moes: So we are leaving it at as an open space then? Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: If you look at the Lake Susan one. Lake Susan Preserve sound too... Manders: Geographically you've got to have something that indicates the area you're talking about... Hoffman: Either Lake Susan Preserve or Lake Susan Park Preserve. Same thing, Bluff Creek Park Preserve or Bluff Creek Preserve. Lash: Lake Susan Nature Preserve. I don't know. That gets to be too many words. That's too long. Manders: Susan Preserve. Lash: Lake Susan Preserve would be mine. 5 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Manders: Or Bluff Creek Preserve. Franks: Plus it is attached to Lake Susan Park. There's the tie-in if we call it to the Lake Susan Park Preserve. That ties it in with Lake Susan Park. They're contiguous. Hoffman: And once you name Bluff Creek, it's going to be that name all the way up and down. For that entire open space. So as it gets added on at the bottom and added on at the top. So Bluff Creek is really what it is. It's the Bluff Creek Watershed. The Bluff Creek Overlay. The Bluff Creek. Lash: Okay, Bluff Creek Park, where you've got to avoid confusion regarding Bluff Creek open space. Bluff Creek Park. Where is that? Hoffman: That's down at the, it's the 12 acres way down at the bottom of the city. Down in the golf course. Lash: Oh, yeah. Hoffman: I think you can name them the same thing. All hopefully to be connected at some point in the future. So if you choose Bluff Creek Preserve, then that changes to Bluff Creek Preserve. Lash: Okay, let's start with the Lake Susan. I think that's the easiest one. We've got it narrowed down to Lake Susan Park Preserve and Lake Susan Preserve. Are those the two? Does anyone have a problem with either one of those? Hoffman: I can read you some of them that we didn't add to the list. Lash: You're going to sound like Leno. Hoffman: Here we go. Marshland Park. Powers Park. Cattail Marsh. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha Park. Highview Park. Lash: Those are on the list. Okay, we've got it narrowed down to Lake Susan Park Preserve, Lake Susan Preserve. Anybody have a strong feeling one way or the other? Rod? Franks: I like the Park Preserve because it ties it into the park so people have an understanding that there's Lake Susan Park and right next to it somewhere is the Park Preserve. Moes: I think it ties it into the Park and Rec too. Lash: Okay. Fred? Berg: No problem. 6 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: Jay? Karlovich: I don't have a problem. Lash: Jim. Manders: I would lean the other way but if there's people that want park. Lash: Okay. Let's go for, do you have to have a motion on each one or can we just do it. Hoffman: All of them. Lash: All as one, okay. That wasn't too hard. So the Bluff Creek Open Space. In this particular case I wouldn't go for the park in there because it really isn't...But if ultimately it's going to be all the way along Bluff Creek, from top to bottom, maybe Bluff Creek Preserve would be. Manders: What I'm thinking is keep this open...preserve. Don't put the... Lash: Does anybody have a problem with Bluff Creek Preserve or have some other suggestion? Manders: Is there any chance that this as the creek and park expands, that it'd be anything different than inactive or type of park? Hoffman: No. Karlovich: I think Bluff Creek Preserve sounds good. I mean the previous one we added in the word park... Lash: Okay, so is Bluff Creek Preserve okay with everybody? Okay, now we're back up to the O'Shaughnessy one. Franks: That was just, the request by Mrs. O'Shaughnessy was just a request or was that part of the transfer of the land? Hoffman: I don't recall if it was in the acceptance or not. I know it was a request. Manders: I think we should, before we name this do a little more historical research on that area. Berg: I was just think the same thing. Who owned it before O'Shaughnessy's? Ron would know. Check and see. Maybe we can go back historically that way. Hoffman: down. Yeah, the fainter on the comer there had it for 60 years. The house that was tom 7 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: How about Galpin? Too far away from Galpin? We don't have a Galpin Park, do we? Galpin Nature Preserve. Galpin. Berg: How about Hazeltine Nature Preserve? Lash: After what? Berg: Susan Hazeltine. Lash: Is 41, isn't that Hazeltine Boulevard? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: That's right off of there, right? Will people think it's by the golf course if we do that? Berg: Well we're going to have signs up. We're going to educate them. Lash: You know that's a, you know really if you think about that though, if it ends up being kind of an interpretative center or some type of thing actually people can...some type of educational experience. Berg: Name it after the first teacher in the county might not be bad. Franks: What was her name? Berg: Susan Hazeltine. Franks: So the Susan Hazeltine Nature Preserve or something like that? Lash: Or even Hazeltine. Want her first name? Berg: That would take care of the confusion with the golf course. Franks: I guess what I'm thinking is we've always kicked around the idea of that kind of being our nature interpretative center in town. I guess part of me thinks if we start calling it now, what we would like it to be, sooner or later maybe it will actually happen. So if we start calling it our nature preserve, start thinking along those lines, then maybe we can actually make it come to be. Hoffman: The one thing about the nature interpretative center concept, and that's down the road. If you look at how the people who design these things, design nature centers, they try to set them into the environment. Keep them off of the road. And you know back in and that could have happened without the road going through. Now the only place to build that is right on top of Coulter Boulevard and so that's the only piece of high ground in there. You could have a trail that leads out the back, but you have to come right back up onto Coulter to get around it to go into the. So you have no direct access into the 100 acres. You are landlocked right on top of the Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 road and if you want to get into the main portion of the preserve, you've got to cross the road and go to the south side. Berg: Could you have stations, set it up a little different way and have stations along the trail that could be part of an interpretative center without having a big center? Hoffman: Big building. Lash: That was more of what I always had in mind. I didn't, I never really envisioned we'd have the money for a major program structure kind of thing. I just thought it would be more of a self guided, you know lift station set up where some area you can observe, blah, blah. Berg: Yeah, the type of vegetation you have there. Manders: Being as we took out Chan Hills Pond, we could go with Chanhassen... Hoffman: We've got the park that was cut in half by the blade of progress. Creekwood. French Park. Chanhassen Bluff. Canary Reed Grass Park and Coulter Park. Lash: I don't want to name it after the road. Franks: West Branch. Hoffman: I could sense that from the commission. Berg: I up for Susan Hazeltine Interpretative Center or something. Manders: What are the green shirts saying? Lash: Is there anything... Moes: Chanhassen Nature Preserve, there you go. Lash: Is there some kind, some type of vegetation there that's unique or clusters of trees that are, that's pretty large so we could call it. Hoffman: You know the concept of going back to the history, Betty O'Shaughnessy would not be, Betty purchased this land holding from I believe it was the Jeurissens and so you call it the Jeurissen Farm Preserve. I think they had it for at least 60 years. Prior to that time held the property. They were a prominent farm family up there on the comer. If you talk to any of the old farmers in town, they'll tell you exactly what was going on that farm for all those 60 years prior to, and it's only been 10 years that the farm has been gone so it hasn't been that long. Lash: So O'Shaughnessy's only had it for 10 years? Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: Oh less than that. Lash: Oh really. Hoffman: Oh yeah. Half a dozen. And bought it directly from the farm. So if you want the history, you put interpretative signs somewhere in there and how this thing started. Jeurissen Family Farm. Lash: Originally this was the pasture. Manders: Corn field. Lash: Corn field. Manders: This is the road. Lash: And due to development, now this is a road... Franks: Like the Jeurissen Farm Nature Preserve. Lash: Jeurissen? ! don't know. Hoffman: I don't know, that may be it. I have to check. Manders: My vote would be one of two names. Either Chanhassen something or another preserve or what Fred said. Lash: That's about what I've got it narrowed down to. Franks: Do we have any parks in the city named after like Coulter or? Lash: Kerbero Franks: We have Kerber but I'm just trying to think of kind of those big, kind of prominent names. Lash: ...named after. Berg: Actually she has two different things named after her already. Manders: Who? Berg: Susan Hazeltine. Two lakes. Didn't we take a certain amount of, I don't know what the word is. When it used to be Chanhassen Pond Park. Chanhassen, it seems so redundant. 10 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: On the park signs, one of the neighbors said that. Thanks for telling us that Chanhassen Pond Park is in Chanhassen. Berg: That's what it says on the sign. Chanhassen Pond Park, Chanhassen. Lash: Hazeltine could be a dual purpose. It could be because it's an area of learning and also it's off of Hazeltine Boulevard so geographically there could be some type of connection where that was. Galpin would also work. It's just about as close to Galpin. Was Galpin a person or is that, who was Galpin? Moes: He owned a residence...down by Lake Galpin. Berg: Yeah in the 1850's. He was one of the first seven families or something in the 1850's. George Galpin. Lash: And he owned the property by Galpin Lake. A question was asked that was not picked up on the tape. Berg: No. That would be Burret Judd. His daughter was Lucy. Lucy as in Lake. Lash: Galpin Boulevard Nature Preserve? Berg: Ann is his sister-in-law. I did my homework today. Lash: Okay, how about the green shirt boys. Any ideas down there? (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Howe: I like Galpin. These are all good ideas. Lash: Rod? Franks: Well I'd like to tie it in historically. I kind of like the idea of this Susan Hazeltine since she was a teacher and we might be looking at developing that property as a place where there'd be more some active learning than just park but at the same time there's already Hazeltine Park and there's Lake Susan and Lake Susan Park. Lash: So Hazeltine Park, are you talking by the golf course? Franks: By the golf course. Berg: Yeah, you'd have to clearly identify. 11 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Manders: Yeah, I think people would get confused by over by the golf course. That'd be the main confusion. Lash: Dave? Moes: I'm kind of neutral. I think the Galpin sounds good. The Chanhassen does sound a little generic. Lash: Okay. Franks: Are we totally against Coulter? I mean the road goes right through it. It is kind ora big name in the city. I mean not everybody can sit in this chair right here. You've got to be able to take it Mike. Lash: Okay. We got it narrowed down here? We got three choices. Chanhassen Nature, or are we in agreement that it's going to be something nature preserve? Okay, we're there. Okay. So Chanhassen Nature Preserve? Raise a finger if that will be your first choice. Chanhassen Nature Preserve. Galpin Nature Preserve. Susan Hazeltine Nature Preserve. Franks: I have another generic option. Lash: Okay, what's your generic option. Franks: The West Branch Nature Preserve, since it is the west branch of Bluff Creek that runs through there. West Branch. Sounds like a shopping mall doesn't it, or like an outlet mall. You're right. Too generic. Lash: Okay, so we got Chanhassen Nature Preserve. Galpin Nature Preserve. Susan Hazeltine Nature Preserve, or just Hazeltine Nature Preserve. Berg: I almost think the Susan has to be there. Lash: Has to be there, okay. So we've got it narrowed down to three. Anyone first choice Chanhassen? No one's first choice. For Chanhassen Nature Preserve? Okay. Manders: Just because nobody else would. Lash: Okay, so we got one for that. Okay, then we'll go to Galpin Nature Preserve. First choice. Moes: We're down here. We're down here. You counting? Lash: Yeah, I'm counting. Okay, so Susan Hazeltine. Jay? You've got to pick. Come on. Karlovich: That would be my number two. 12 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: That would be your number two. Are you willing to go for it or not? You've got to decide if you're willing to go for it. Franks: What do we have? Hoffman: We've got, it was the Roy Kelm Park and in the history book there are one, two, three, four, five, six Kelms. Lash: Kelms? Berg: Kelms go way back. Lash: Kelm Nature Preserve. Hoffman: A1 Klingelhutz. Karlovich: The one thing about that, doesn't it make you think that they dedicated it or something? Hoffman: Bandimere Park. Moes: Did you talk to Al? Hoffman: Yeah, I just talked to A1 right now. Franks: He didn't want the Lake Susan area named after anybody in the family did he? Hoffman: Yeah, A1 was on the council when Kelms... Lash: Okay, can we spend more time on this? I don't think so. Make a decision, and we got the majority but it was real border for Galpin Nature Preserve. Franks: Do we not like using the Kelms? Lash: Are we throwing that one in the mix? Is anybody willing to change and go for Kelm? Franks: I would. Berg: I would. Lash: Okay, so that takes one away from Susan Hazeltine. No? That's your second choice. And what was yours, yours was Galpin? Franks: Galpin. 13 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: So that would drop it down to 3. We're still not getting a very, we still have a majority for Galpin but it's pretty weak. Hoffman: Well Galpin goes north and south as well. People know Galpin all the way to Shorewood, to Excelsior and down to Chaska. Lash: So you're saying it's not geographically, it doesn't tie in good enough? Karlovich: I'll switch my vote from. Moes: But it's in Chanhassen. Karlovich: ...Kelm. Historical. Lash: Okay, so we have three Kelm? Three for Galpin. Hoffman: Read about the Kelms. Lash: Well which Kelm? Manders: Like outlaws and criminals? Berg: That's true, one of them that I found. Hoffman: There'd probably be a picture of the house in there if you... Moes: Who had it before the Kelms then? Hoffman: It goes back at least two generations. Lash: Young man Henry Kelm began learning telegraphy, I don't know how you say that word. And began working for the railroad in 1893. He was placed in charge of the Milwaukee Road Office as Station Agent. He married Rose, not too much more about it. Berg: To name it after a person is so anti suburb. It helps maintain the history of the town which makes Chanhassen I think unique to start out with. Instead of a lot of Galpins already. Hoffman: Yeah, the people who already have something around here, everybody waits in line to get something...don't like it when we name some descendent. They think it's... That's why Kerber got boo hoo'd by the, all the long term locals. Lash: What did? Hoffman: Kerber Pond Park. We already have Kerber Boulevard...now you named a park after them. Man! Don't you know there's people in line for that stuff. 14 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Howe: I'll switch my vote to Kelms. Lash: See, I'd switch to Hazeltine before I would Kelms. And my thinking is, I don't know who just said it, but it sounds like they gave us the property. Howe: That's my only, but O'Shaughnessy didn't, she didn't want it to be. Lash: Yeah, I know but I mean they sold it. That was their big retirement plan. They didn't dedicate it to the City. Why should it be named after them, just because they owned it and sold it. Berg: So when you drive home do you think that Kerber donated that park with the pond? Franks: Or Bandimere? Lash: I guess not. Howe: It's historical. Moes: That does raise a question. What message are we trying to send after those examples there? Franks: Are you going to force me to wax...? Hoffman: I want some more dirt on Kelms there. Lash: Doug Kelms remembers the old village hall whenever he hears a bell ring. He recalls a cousin of mine was visiting over the weekend and I was showing her around the great metropolis of Chanhassen and we came to the village hall, which was sort ora playground for us because they never locked the hall. The files were very open. Shall we say one of our playgrounds was the back of the village hall where there was a typical old fashion jail cell and nobody minded the fact that the kids used the building as a play room as long as they didn't do any damage. The village hall had a little bell tower. It was pulled by hand with a rope attached to the outside of the building and my cousin said, have you ever rang the bell? I said no. I don't think you're supposed to. My cousin talked me into ringing the bell. Unfortunately high mass was in progress this Sunday morning right across the street and the windows and doors flew open because the ringing of the bell was the equivalent of a fire siren .... got the worse spanking of my life because Elmer was at high mass. I will never forget. Whenever I hear the bell it comes back to me. The city still has the bell. Howe: If that doesn't change your vote. Moes: Bell Nature Preserve. 15 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: Fire bell? Have something about Julianne Kerber said that. Let's see if there's something that went into it. The store had everything. It had a post office, dry goods, meat market, general store. She's talking about Pauly's. Got your mail and gossip there. There were a couple of old guys that never married that were sitting in these big captain chairs and they would hear the news and tell the news and we'd go there to find out what was going on. Hoffman: You know you can always throw these up in a newspaper column. Berg: Oh geez. Hoffman: No, no. And say Park and Rec Commission proposes to name these sites this. If you want to comment on that, send in a letter. Manders: With Jan's phone number. Berg: We don't want to do that. Hoffman: If the...notorious, somebody's going to call in. One of the old timers is going to call in and say you don't name it the... Lash: Okay, here's a little bit more...State Bank of Chan. When Henry Kelm died, in a year Elmer Kelm took over his father's position at the bank although he was only 17 at the time. Elmer was born in 1900. Attended college. A rarity in Chanhassen, graduating from St. Thomas. He was selected as Village Treasurer in 1923. Kelm seemed to relish the role of small town banker. Some remember that he gave loans with generous conditions. Dr. Seifert got a loan from the bank after he'd been turned down in Excelsior. Seifert became Chanhassen's most popular doctor in town. His office was in Excelsior. Okay...He gave Seifert a loan. He's my man. So Kelm. In 1920 Elmer Kelm stepped into an important political position when he was elected as Carver County Democratic Chairman. Ooooh. The next major election was the Fall Presidential campaign which pitted Herbert Hoover against A1 Smith. Kelm delivered his hometown in spectacular fashion. His son Doug remembers handing out literature at age 6. They voted unanimously for A1 Smith. The first...presidential candidate from a major party. Count was 70 to 0. Franks: He was the County. That's got to count for something. Lash: ...in every election. In fact the village always marched to it's own drummer politically. In 1924 they supported Robert L... A progressive party candidate from Wisconsin. Hoffman: It would inspire some history in our history... Lash: Truman appointed Kelm to the post of the Customs Office and IRS. Testimonial dinner for Elmer Kelm in 1955, front row, Karl Rolvaag. Loretta and Elmer Kelm. Muriel and Hubert Humphrey. Kelm was known for the hand radio set that he kept in his basement. 16 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Howe: Change your votes, come on. 7 zip. Lash: Kelm Nature Preserve. Who would have thought. Franks: Kelm Nature Preserve. Lash: Okay, anyone? Finger up for Kelm. Franks: Yeah, voice vote. Lash: Okay, so Jim you're not with us on Kelm. Manders: That's fine. I just didn't vote for it. Lash: So Kelm. Should it be Kelm Farm Nature Preserve? Is that getting too wordy? Franks: Yep. Too wordy. Lash: Kelm Nature Preserve. Moes: The people we're talking about is more than just the farm. Lash: Okay, so we've got Kelm Nature Preserve. We've got Bluff Creek Preserve. We've got Lake Susan Park Preserve. And then we need to change Bluff Creek Open Space. We may want to rename Bluff Creek Park to Bluff Creek Gorge Preserve? Moes: Where's the Bluff Creek Park again? Lash: Or just Bluff Creek Gorge? Hoffman: Right down off of the LRT Trail. If you go down 101...take and right, you'll find the gravel trail and look directly north into that big open gorge. That's it. Moes: How about Bluff Creek Ravine? Berg: That's the... Lash: Not the same as gouge. Franks: Or Bluff Creek Glen? Fen? Hoffman: Can you just leave it all Bluff Creek Preserve? Moes: Yeah, well I was just going to say. Will it all connect? 17 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: Moes: Lash: It will all connect someday isn't it? Yeah, let's leave it. So we just incorporate that into the Bluff Creek Preserve. Nature Preserve. No, what do we have? Berg: Preserve. Karlovich: I thought it was called Bluff Creek Park... Lash: And lastly there's just a significant wooded park of parkland on Pleasant View Road which needs a name. Manders: Where is this? Lash: I don't know that either. Manders: I think I know where it is but. Hoffman: Okay, if you're going on Pleasant View from Powers and you hit the bottom of Fox Chase and there's a strong right. Right to the left. Berg: Real small. Hoffman: No, it's pretty big. Manders: A lot of trees. Hoffman: All trees. Lash: You hit the bottom of Fox Chase. Oh, that's the one, okay. Hoffman: On the right and you come to a sharp right and you look directly left. It's all the land right there between. Manders: Right on Christmas Lake. Hoffman: Yep. No, it's right on Silverwood Lake. Manders: Is that Silverwood? Where's Christmas? Hoffman: Up and over the hill. Lash: Where the road hooks to the left or where it makes the S? 18 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Todd Hoffman showed the commission on the map where this parcel is located. Hoffman: Pleasant View Woods. Moes: Yeah, Pleasant View Woods. I mean if it's six acres, that doesn't strike me as being a big enough piece of parcel of land to consider as a preserve. I like Pleasant View Woods or something. Howe: Pleasant View Woods is a subdivision. Pleasant View Woods Preserve is a preserve. Manders: You do make a good point though. Hoffman: Pleasant View's a pretty significant road. There's no Pleasant View Park or Pleasant View...I think is a good tie. Manders: Call it Pleasant View Park or not? Lash: No. Because people will think that's North Lotus. Can't put park in there. Franks: Well, if we're calling all these other pieces of land a preserve and there's this perception that it's like 30 acres at a shot with trails running through it and such and then they see this on a map, Pleasant View Preserve. We lose that whole idea of consistency that we're trying to maintain so. Berg: What if you add woods to it? Manders: Pleasant View Woods. Karlovich: What is the one lake that feeds into it? Silver Lake? Lash: I've never heard of that before. Hoffman: There's a pond in Shorewood named Silverwood Park. Lash: Not in Chanhassen. Is the lake in Chanhassen? Hoffman: No. Lash: It's in Shorewood, okay. Hoffman: It's in Shorewood. Lash: Would you know where that is? I would have no idea. I've never heard of Silver Lake before. I've lived here for 22 years. Never heard of it. 19 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Manders: Pleasant View Woods. Franks: That's what I'd go for too. Manders: That's my number one. Not going to change. Berg: You had a real bad day today didn't you? Just real cantankerous. Lash: I could live with it. I agree with Rod. The other ones all have like a pond or a creek or a marsh and it's a big thing that you can walk around and take it all in and this is just actually just, that just sit there and hopefully it will never be, there you go. Okay, can we go with Pleasant View Woods on that one? Howe: I'm not going to vote for it but... Lash: Well what did you want? Oh because you think it sounds like a housing development. Okay. We're done. Can somebody make a motion? Manders: For all of them? Lash: Yeah. Kelm Nature Preserve, Bluff Creek Preserve, Lake Susan Park Preserve. We can change Bluff Creek Park to part of Bluff Creek Preserve. And Pleasant View Woods. Hoffman: And we need clear motions because the last set of minutes you didn't portray a clear motion on that. Lash: ...just say they're going to make a motion. Karlovich: Okay, a motion to proceed with those names. Lash: Is there a second? Moes: Second. Karlovich moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the following names: O'Shaughnessy Open Space Bluff Creek Open Space Lake Susan Open Space Bluff Creek Park Wooded Parkland on Pleasant View Kelm Nature Preserve Bluff Creek Preserve Lake Susan Park Preserve Bluff Creek Preserve Pleasant View Woods All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. 2O Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 UPDATE FIVE YEAR PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. Lash: And Todd, what did you want us to do? Do you want us to go through one by one here or what's your.'? Hoffman: You've done that and this document is a representation of that with a few additions based off of major items which are on park master plan. I think the important thing here is that we have a new city manager who has a lot of planning to do over the next five years. We have a lot of people taking a look at what can and can't be park, fund 410, park and trail acquisition development fund do and what plans does the commission have for it in the future. So it's an important document. How you want to accomplish it. It's not critical that you go through it tonight. If you want to do it tonight. Another night. But it's important that we get it done before our budget of 2000. I've just been going over our site tours tonight. I really could anticipate that by 2004, somewhere in there, Curry Farms is going to need updated playground equipment and we don't have anything down. So I don't know where that would, which year that would fall in. Manders: I'd put it in 2004. Lash: And then when I thumb through here, when I saw under Lake Ann for the year 2000. $500,000.00 for the entrance road. That's kind of surprised me because I couldn't imagine where we would get that kind of money out of our budget. So what are we supposed to do about that? Hoffman: Well I've been talking to the council and City Manager Botcher and it'd be essentially his recommendation for this year to not go forward on the project in an attempt to identify more diversified funding source. Not to phase the project. You know do the $150,000.00 worth of improvements this year. That is in the budget out of 410 and do additional improvements next year. So he would like to work with the council and explore that project in more detail. That's the cost estimate. That is the actual hard cost estimate, $487,000.00 for the project... Lash: The other thing, it's difficult to tell if you look at the last page where there's no totals. Hoffman: Oh, there's a little note there. Lash: That's what brought me eye to the fact that there was no totals there. Do you have any idea what they are? Hoffman: No idea. Not a clue. Lash: So we really can't even see if we're tracking anywhere near what we normally do for any of the years. What are we usually shooting for? Like 50 or something like that? Hoffman: Yeah. 21 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: Until we have that information I couldn't even begin to start looking at it to see... obviously in 2000 we're way over. Double over just with Lake Ann. Hoffman: The one thing I noticed in going through here is that there are many parks which are blank because there really isn't anything identified in the master plan that is not there. And you take a Curry Farms playground and there's no more rehabilitation that that playground can undergo. It's just repair and so once you make a commitment to a Curry Farms Park, 10 year old wooden structure, you're talking a $40,000.00 or $50,000.00 commitment. So you want to make that thing last as long as it can before you take that ticket. That's going to leave. That equipment's going to go...and we have about a dozen of those sites in Chanhassen where it's that wood that we're attempting to make last. And then neighborhoods see the brand new, colorful metal stuff and they go, ah. This is a bummer. Whereas 6, 7, 8 years ago the wood stuff was the hot ticket. So as long as, that's kind of a policy. As long as it's functional and you want to keep it, or want to replace these things because we think it's, it just looks outdated. Manders: If there's major problems with it. Hoffman: By then there will be some problems. Lash: ...five years down the road. And what's the anticipated life of... Hoffman: 15 to 20 years. Over 10, a dozen years. Lash: Life expectancy. When I look at the Bandimere Community Park. The first thing that jumped out at me is the silo. Not necessarily the shelter as much but you know I really feel like that silo is going to be kind of a focal point that will draw people's attention to the park and it's so bad right now that to wait until 2004 to do anything to that is really a long ways down the road. We have nothing in 2001, and I don't know how much that would cost so it'd be nice to move it up if we can. Maybe have it separate from the shelter. Hoffman: Yeah, why don't we just go through piece by piece. Take another rough draft of it so I can work that up and bring back the total. Lash: If we start with Bandimere Community Park. Anybody else have anything for that? Howe: I just did some quick adding. In 2000, budgeted number should $883,000.00. Hoffman: But if you take out Lake Arm you're at 300 and. Howe: $383. And then 2001 I see that you're at about $793. That's as far as I got. Lash: How much for, what? Howe: 2001. $793. Those numbers here on the last page. I just went through quickly. 22 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: How come it's so much for 20017 Howe: Lake Ann again. Bandimere and Lake Ann. Lash: There's nothing in 2001 for Bandimere. Hoffman: Lake Ann. $235,000 park shelter, warming house. Oh City Center Park. City Center and then Lake Ann. Ballfields... What's important is to identify what the commission wants to accomplish in the capital improvement. Then you start jockeying around and ranking it and so if you take a look at a Bandimere, you know what you accomplished today and you know what you have left. Playground. Buildings. Silo and what kind of priorities do you want to put and then we'll start getting the hard numbers. ! think the playground's a priority, and it's a pretty big budget. $50,000 might even be low but that's, we can get started with that. Grills the commission identified as a priority and that will go in that area, in that picnic area. You like the concept ora vending shelter in that ballfield area? Howe: That was in the center, right there where they all kind of meet? Hoffman: Yep. In the asphalt area and then you build a building similar to what they did at Minnewashta Park where it's just a block, or a masonry structure with vending machines and a garage door. Got the service. I mean it can and it can't be. Those kids at those ball games have so many treats, treat parents that you could forget vending altogether and push it way off into the future. Lash: Some of these are such big ticket items that to plunk them in one year it just, it's just not even feasible when it takes the whole budget to do one project. In looking at it like we did Minnewashta Park. You know we have to bank roll...but we're going to have to put you know $25,000-$50,000 here away for five years until we have enough to pay for something like that. Berg: That's my concern though is that that's not going to be allowed. That they're going to see we're not spending it, therefore they're going to take it away. That'd be my concern. Lash: That's a real good thing to discussion. Berg: Yeah, it would be. Lash: If their hope is that we're financially responsible here, that's how we can hope to achieve some of those bigger ticket items without a referendum. If they don't allow us to do that, then those things aren't going to be able to happen. Hoffman: I mean the fund traditionally has income of about $250,000 to $300,000. And in this fast growth, the pace of the community, the commission has equaled that or bettered that with the project. The fund is at about a halfa million dollars, a little bit of reserve income. And so you can plunk down a $300,000 project and... 23 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Hoffman: ...cleaned up by the referendum. Lash: How do we have that much in reserve? I thought we tapped our reserves to finish those trails. How did we get halfa million dollars in reserve again already? Hoffman: Because it came down from a million. $900-$800,000. Lash: I thought we tapped it. Like completely. Hoffman: I'll double check the numbers. Lash: Okay. Well does anybody else have anything for Bandimere? Personally I'd like to see the silo thing bumped up... Howe: I think the vending can wait. Does that pay for itself?. Do we make any money on that? Hoffman: Oh no way. You'll make money on it. You'll never pay the cost. Lash: I would put the second phase of playground before that. Berg: It's almost a luxury. Let's see what the human cry is. Franks: With the silo, my only concern about the silo is putting that off too is a safety issue. There's certain, it still looks climbable to me for somebody who'd be enterprising. Hoffman: Well you're going to be able to climb that thing unless we fence it. You could climb the band. Franks: Right. Hoffman: And there's nothing that the restoration will accomplish short of chain linking it off. That will stop you from climbing the fence. Franks: There's no kind of wrapping it with some kind of material or? Hoffman: We might be able to that at the lower. Franks: I think of all the kids that are going to be playing ball games up there you know and brothers and sisters of kids that are on the field and boom. Hoffman: We'll investigate that. And the big shelter? Any feel for a big shelter? Does it have to be in in five years? 24 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Berg: Moes: Berg: I don't know either. The which, I'm sorry? The park shelter. Hoffman: It's probably more important at City Center visually and functionalized for the warming house. Okay? Lash: Bandimere Heights we have nothing. Anybody need anything in there? Hoffman: Play area. I put the question mark because this is another wood play area. Do you want to try to enhance it when you're going to put a $100,000 playground just up the street? Lash: Bluff Creek, is that now the preserve? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: Nothing really for that. Carver Beach Park. Anything else for that? Carver Beach Playground. put some trees in or something, right? Hoffman: Bushes and trees around the new trail you asked for. Lash: Anything else with that one? I think that one's done. Chan Estates Park. Parking improvements. Manders: What does that mean? Hoffman: There is no parking off of Lake Drive and there's no parking on Lake Drive. And so the concept is to get some sort of a access and turn around with parking stalls there. Manders: Lake Drive. Hoffman: Off of Lake Drive. Lash: Isn't this a little, mini park? Manders: By McDonald's? Hoffman: And that's the, you put a lot of money into it now. You have no access to from the neighborhood except for a few houses that can walk through the next yard and the people will have some kind of agreement to walk through their yards. You have a lot of people that, businesses there who if they had an opportunity to pull in and park, would eat lunch there. We have the trail connector. $15,000. We had some landscaping. We were going to 25 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: So $30,000 is that doing it in-house or is that hiring that out? Is it something we could do in-house or not? Hoffman: We could certainly do components of it in-house, yeah. We could do the grading and the rocking and have...curb person, paving contractor come in. Franks: Is this, are you talking about like a parking area or like a 3-4 car curb cut into Lake Drive? Hoffman: They won't let us have a curb cut. We'd have to have an entrance and then parking area. Lash: So what would it change the numbers to if we did some of it in-house? Hoffman: It might take it down a little bit but. Franks: Because with that hill there, it'd be a significant. Hoffman: It would go all the way to. Franks: All the way in. Hoffman: All the way to the east. Lash: Okay, anything else for that? Chanhassen Hills Park. Kerber Pond Park. Interpretive signage. We talked about that. Anything else down there? The Rec Center. Sign. Berg: Oh the sign yeah. Lash: That needs to be almost right away. Berg: What are people's feelings about the grills at some of these other places? Manders: Whether they're...or needed. Berg: Yeah, Well what do you think about spending the money to put them in some of these selective parks? Lash: Like where? Berg: Well I was thinking Meadow Green. Lash: We don't have grills there? 26 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Berg: I was thinking of. Manders: Especially where you've got the little shelters or those...things. Hoffman: Yeah, Meadow Green around the shelter would make sense. Berg: That's used so heavily. I was thinking too, it's almost a community park. Neighborhood park. Lash: Oh I could see people to go in there for a game, an early game or something and bring a hot dog and throw them on. Howe: What do grills cost, $300? Hoffman: Yep. Howe: That's not that much. Lash: How about Carver Beach? Hoffman: I think parks that are adjacent to people's homes, they like to grill at home. If they're going to go grill, they're going to go to a more community or beach park. Lash: How about the Rec Center? Berg: That's what I was thinking. Hoffman: I've never received a request. Lash: City Center. The warming house obviously. We've got to have that. Senior garden. That was a request... Hoffman: Do you want that shelter in 2000 or 20017 The reason it's in 2001 is because of the Lake Ann Road. I'm not sure that's going to happen in 2000. And the council really wants to start hearing some priorities. They know everybody has a lot of wants. They want to straighten out some of the priorities and so that's why I think you should be focusing... Lash: Well we have a lot of things as priorities but if we don't have the money to do it. Hoffman: They want number one, number two. Lash: But how are they going to make it happen? We can make it number one but unless we've got the money. 27 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: They a $700,000 contingency fund that they're getting a lot of requests for facilities. And before they make any commitment and that's, the $700,000 can tag into the $500,000 of your account and then you know split a Lake Ann park road 50/50 or split a City Center Park building 50/50. They have library in there. They have a lot of different items. That's really been their request... Lash: Well I think this one would be one of the bigger priorities .... and everything else that we have. Hoffman: You're going to have a portable warming house out there until we get this thing done. Franks: I would really see the park shelter at City Center Park as a big priority for me. And this is the park that they all see when they come down here as council members and as staff and as, this is the one park where the entire community congregates at least once a year. It's really our showcase park... Karlovich: And then grills are added? Hoffman: $275,900. Lash: Okay, Curry Farm Park. You know do we have to plunk money in if we want it to realign that, refigure that ballfield there? Hoffman: Well, we'll do that as a maintenance item. Lash: Okay, Sugarbush Park. Is that, the landscaping and does that include a sign then or is that under general things? Hoffman: Already budgeted. Lash: That Phase II play area. Moes: Now Sugarbush is the one we stopped at, correct? Now if I remember right, it has a green open area on the west side. Did that run right into those people's back yards or was there a berm back there? Hoffman: No, runs into their back yards. We're planting out of the tree farm a line of trees to delineate that. Moes: Oh okay. I was just curious if there was kind of a little delineation there. Hoffman: And I've also been working with the neighbor to the north about putting in, David Stockdale still lives in that home and he's mowing part of the park that's around the pond. He didn't want the pond on his land so he gave it to the city as a part of the park so we're going to have those defined and straighten that up. 28 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: What about the trail? Is that already going in? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: Okay, Greenwood Shores Park. I don't think there was anything for that, was there? Hoffman: A new oak tree. Lash: Herman Field. We're holding off on anything there aren't we? Hoffman: Met with the deputy up there the other day. A kid drove in and out and got stuck. Continues. Lash: Lake Ann Park. The entrance road. Vending machine. If we had to prioritize, I mean that would be, the road, that'd be above City Center park shelter? Prioritizing or after? Karlovich: What is the road? Hoffman: Reconstruction of Lake Ann. The old ones. Franks: I'd like to see the Council shake that down about who's responsibility that really is first before we. Howe: We can't pay for the whole thing. Franks: I mean it sounds like they're really discussing how to pay for those types of improvements. Let's let them work on that. Hoffman: Talk about that at the joint meeting. Okay. Manders: What's the status of this Lion Park? Hoffman: They sent, in fact they gave the Mayor the last contribution to the lights today which brings their total to $54,000.00 out of a $98,000.00 pledge and their gambling, gaming operations are closed so the Lions Playground and the Lions Park will never really... Manders: So then the other thing they were talking about the money was putting, spending... building something. Hoffman: Yeah, indoor restrooms .... for 2002 or beyond for this one. And the Lake Ann Road, talk about... Lash: Lake Susan Park. We've got ballfield lights down the road. Anybody have anything else there? Beach? That's supposed to go in this year though isn't it? 29 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: Lash: Berg: Manders: Do we, or maybe it's listed. off of Kerber. No. It's done. Meadow Green. Fred you want some grills in there, right? Yes. I know we've talked about this before. Hoffman: Manders: that. Hoffman: Manders: Hoffman: is going to Kerber to the east. Manders: Towards Big Horn and. Hoffman: North Lotus, yeah. Manders: A trail connector East trail connector. Oh, coming which way? Coming into the. Coming into the park on the bottom down there. You know we kind of talked about Continue to look at it. Is that something that we'd consider here or is that somewhere else? No, you would consider it here. The $60,000 that's in there for the east trail connector Yeah, all that. But it seems to me the functionality of hooking it up into the park, you'd get a lot more people up that way. Lash: Are you talking about off of Kerber like. Manders: Right at the bottom there and then come right into Kerber. Bottom of the curve the hill's on. Where that. Lash: That's what I thought this east connector was. Manders: But that goes the other way. It doesn't come into the active park. Into the passive park. Hoffman: Both these have neighborhood conflicts and so you want to think about what the value is to the public versus the intrusion to the neighborhood because you're going to cut through back yards. Manders: Because right now that one side of the trail kind of dead ends at the bottom. I know you put a curb cut in there to get through there but you can bring that right around into the park. 3O Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: I'm not sure we have the property on that side. It looks better than I thought it was the last time...let me draw something up for both of those. Manders: Okay. Lash: I would see that as being used more than the other one. Manders: Going into the park as opposed to going east. Moes: Yeah, that's kind of what I, yeah. Manders: I mean you could do more with circle type of things. Hoffman: I wanted to ask for a clarification on the landscaping. We had some comments about the lack of trees. I spent last night at Meadow Green Park and there are trees around the perimeter of the playfield but the fact of the matter is, that playfield if huge and there's never been any trees planted in it intentionally. There's trees growing around the perimeter of the park. Manders: I think we were talking some of us around the shelter area. Hoffman: Okay, that'd be a good place. Berg: Separating the parking lot and that area from the park itself. Manders: I thought that's where we were focusing. Hoffman: We can do that. Berg: Yeah, to soften it a little bit. Manders: Yeah, because it's pretty open. Berg: It's real stark. Flat. Franks: What they did add to Chan Hills Park too is the trees along the perimeter but in the comers they filled in the comers so you don't have that line that looks like it's boxed. They still have a perimeter but it gives it more ora traditional park look. And I think they've only added like 5 or 6 trees in each comer, in that diamond pattern. Triangle pattern. Lash: Okay. Anything else for Meadow Green? Minnewashta Heights. We don't' have anything for that. North Lotus we don't have anything coming. Pheasant Hill. Nothing. Power Hill. Phase II play area. I could see that getting bumped back. 31 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Franks: A lot of young, the Phase II would be the, if I remember right, that'd be the little kids. Isn't it the older kid play area that's in there now? Hoffman: Opposite I believe. It's the younger. Lash: But...basketball court. Hoffman: I'm surprised you don't have a letter. There's at least one resident who called and called and called and called on the Phase II and I've talked, I've informed that the best way to get their attention is to write them. Lash: Prairie Knoll... Rice Marsh Lake. That got a new shelter, right? Round House. We've got $80,000. Berg: How much would it cost to put a lift in Power Hill? Turn it into a community sledding hill. Manders: A rope tow thing? Berg: Yeah. You'd probably hear a little bit from the neighbors. Just thinking out loud. Just trying to scare you. Hoffman: No dumb ideas. Franks: Jerry, you could be out there in the winter renting tubes. Hoffman: If you wanted to buy about a dozen houses and create a parking lot, you could accomplish that. Berg: Alright, never mind. Sorry to interrupt. Lash: Okay, the Round House Park. Hoffman: Some big money. Lash: ! could see where the skating, the in-line could get bumped out if we had to. Berg: A year or two. Lash: And then we've got tennis/basketball. Well the basketball's going in this year already, right? Hoffman: Yeah. If you create tennis, then you blow up basketball and it all goes right on top of that pad and basketball is inside of tennis. So tennis/basketball is all in one. And that's why. 32 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: We're having basketball already so it'd be basically just tennis. Hoffman: The location where the basketball is the location for tennis as well. Lash: Right, so it'd be a dual use as opposed to just basketball now. Berg: Now why are we going back to tennis courts? Refresh my memory. Lash: Because that one's so far out. Manders: So it's the thought that we're just going to put in the pad, the entire pad but just put in basketball. Hoffman: Just a 50 x 50. Manders: Half court basketball. Hoffman: 50 x 50 half court basketball. If you were to add tennis in the future, you would sacrifice... Manders: Tear it out and rebuild. Hoffman: Correct. Manders: So this would be a good reason not to build tennis. Put this in. Hoffman: This is a $5,000 investment...$6,000-$6,500 investment for basketball so you want to make sure that's used for a number of years before you would... Lash: We talked about, we need some kind of buffer along, yeah. Anything else for that one? Okay, South Lotus Lake. We didn't have anything. Sunset Ridge. Do we need, can you think about anything now with the road going through? You know if the multi-family housing goes in, do we need to make other kinds of... Manders: Where are you talking, Sunset? Lash: Sunset, yeah. Hoffman: Basketball went in. The playground is full. The only thing left on the master plan is skating or hockey. Lash: Aren't you going to have to put, or is it part of the... Hoffman: Parking lot. 33 Park & Rec Commission Meeting ~ May 25, 1999 Lash: That is already done, okay. Berg: That's fairly new. That equipment is really new. Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Okay, Stone Creek Park. Phase II. Hoffman: I need to correct myself. Rod was right. I was thinking Stone Creek. Power Hill is the older kids. This Stone Creek is the younger kids and now they're calling for the second phase. Howe: Franks: Some of them are...the guardians of the park. The only thing about Power Hill, and that's what I thought was, we were just out there on the community garage sale and that neighborhood is just loaded with teeny kids. So if we want years to put in the Phase II equipment, which is the little kid equipment, we might as well not put it in. Lash: But there's going to be turnover. There's always turnover. Franks: Yeah, there's going to be turnover. Lash: As the kids get bigger, they're going to move on. Hoffman: Bigger place. Lash: Bigger house, yeah. Okay, under other improvements. We've got concrete waste receptacles. We talked about that already, didn't we? Hoffman: Yeah, you guys can talk about it but these little barrels are not... Lash: So how much are those? Hoffman: About $400 to $500 a piece. They're permanent. We would mount them on trail systems throughout the park and put a concrete base down and concrete receptacle. Lash: Pretty much indestructible. Hoffman: Pretty much indestructible. That would be the number one criteria. Lash: Okay, picnic tables, benches. Looks like lots in 2000. Is that because of the new parks like Bandimere and all that going in? Hoffman: Yes. 34 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: Signage, scout projects, contingency. Look at just 2000. Hoffman: $93,000. Lash: $93,000.00 or just under. Hoffman: That's why we do these exercises. Prioritize. Lash: Mike, did you finish doing all your numbers? Howe: You've got the calculator. I've got some of them. We'll figure it out. I just got to the first, the 2000 and 2001. Lash: What did you come up with again? Howe: I got $883 for 2000 and $793 for 2001. Lash: $883,000 for 2000? Howe: Yeah. That's with Lake Ann in there. That's everything on the sheets. That's before we went through and. Lash: Okay, and then 2001 was what? Howe: $793. Lash: ...yep, I agree. Okay. Move to table somebody. Franks: ! move to table this until it comes back on the agenda at an appropriate time. Hoffman: The June meeting. Lash: Okay, is there a second? Moes: Second. Franks moved, Moes seconded to table action on the five year park and trail acquisition and development capital improvement program until the June, 1999 Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. RECREATION PROGRAMS: 1999 FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION. 35 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Peterson: Thank you Chair Lash, commissioners. Jerry has been instrumental in kind of moving me along in this new adventure so I'm excited to see the first one turn out. I don't anticipate, if you look at the schedule of events, I don't anticipate a lot of changes. I'd like to see one through and see how it all works out and then go through...and new things that we can make changes to. We are currently working on the promotional items and should have those ready to go out by the first of June in terms of newspaper ads, inserts in the Villager, and our main logo and those kind of things. So I think we'll be ready to go. So other than that, if you guys have any questions for that, I'd answer those at that time. Lash: Anyone have questions for Tracy? Manders: Do you know what kind ofa budget...the total? Ruegemer: Around $30 or $35,000. Manders: For everything? Ruegemer: After the celebration? Manders: Yeah. Does that include fireworks? Everything? Peterson: Right. Lash: Do you have commitments from all these food vendors? Peterson: Yes. Lash: Already. That they'll for sure be here? Peterson: They will be there. Lash: Okay, and we're not having turkey hotdogs, right? Peterson: And which vendor was that? Lash: One thing I just was going to ask, and it may be way too late. I probably should have brought this up but have you ever been to any of those outdoor things where they have dip and dot? Do you know what those are? Peterson: Yeah. Lash: Is it possible to try and get them here? Very popular. Manders: What is it? 36 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: They have them at the art festival. They're like these little, teeny, weenie beads of frozen confection. Or some sort. It's sort of like ice cream. But they come in really good flavors and they're just teeny. They melt in your mouth. Manders: So what do you do, buy? Lash: They give you a scoop in a cup and you eat it with a spoon. Manders: Oh, okay. Karlovich: It's right up there with cheese curds. Lash: It's just really something new. I had them at the first time at the art festival. ! had them at the art festival last summer and you know you like to think when you've tasted pretty much everything there is around when you're our age, and it was just something totally new and it was very popular. But I don't know if it's possible to. Peterson: If not, we'll check it out for next year. Lash: Okay. They have them out at the Mall of America all the time. That's the only place. Berg: Valleyfair has them too. Lash: Oh do they? Okay, anybody else have anything for 4th of July? Sounds fun. The band will be good. Manders: Was there going to be an art thing or does that, wasn't there some art? Peterson: Yeah, there will be a t-shirt and actually I should have brought. Manders: Is there a logo or something? Peterson; No, we've already picked a logo. It's a fun logo. It has the millenium theme to it in wording but the outside of that has some more fun, fun characters. Lash: Hats too? Peterson; I think we'll do, I don't know. I think we'll just do the t-shirts. Lash: Okay, anybody else have anything? Okay. Berg: Let us know what we can do when it gets closer. Lash: Yeah, I suppose June you'll look. You'll have your volunteer schedule ready? For what you need, okay. 37 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 1999 LAKE ANN PARK SUMMER SEASON. Ruegemer: We're starting this weekend out at the concession building. Val Pearson, our concession manager, and Aaron Masonbrenk were out there today. Doing all the cleaning. Getting all the set-up ready to go. We've made some improvements out there. Some in changing vendors. Other in equipment. We worked out with a local company to get a new ice cream freezer down there and a new nacho machine which will work out extremely well. Save up a lot on clean-up. New slush puppy machine will be a huge thing down there. We'll be doing 9 oz and 16 oz cups for that and we're going to kind of keep it simple. Start with 3 to 4 flavors and then we can go up to 6 to 9 flavors with that so, that's going to be a fun weekend. All the boats. We're going to have a brand new four person paddleboat delivered here anytime now for that down there so that should be a nice addition down there. It will be open on weekends until June 12th, or depending on the weather we might open up sooner than that depending on the weather. If it gets warm. There's people down at the beach and we are prepared to open up early with that so. We have kids that are really wanting to get some hours and they're chomping at the bit to get going so we may turn them loose early. Picnic phone calls have really been coming in as of lately. People kind of going a little bit later on that year this year for reasons I don't know why. But those are coming in daily. The beach will open up as I said Saturday, June 12th and we will be going a week later this year. August 29th. Hours of operation will remain the same, 10:30 to 8:00 o'clock daily down there. We'll be meeting with John Raby here pretty soon just to make sure that we have on the lifeguard aspect of it, that we have everything kind of put into place. We did add a sink in the lifeguard room over the winter time for clean-up. That's been a request for years and years and years and we finally could accomplish that. They have hot and cold water, running water in the lifeguard station now for cleaning up accident victims or for that type of thing so they were very excited to hear that. So we'll get going here any time gang busters. Looking forward to another good season. SELF SUPPORTING PROGRAMS. Lash: Thanks Jerry. The self supporting programs. Is that the thing from Susan? Hoffman: Nope, there's none. No report. Lash: Oh, okay. So then the Rec Center thing. That's the thing from Susan. RECREATION CENTER~ SENIOR CENTER AND PARK AND PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE. Hoffinan: 7, 8 and 9, no report other than the written report unless you have questions or comments. Lash: Okay. And 9 you said too, right? 38 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 ADMINISTRATIVE: SKATE PARK. Hoffman: ...I've been getting a lot of input but it's going a lot of different directions. Form a task force. Don't form a task force. Present a total. 1999 has slipped away without a full blown skate park and.., so we're really focusing on 2000... It'd be nice just to get something out there so we start identifying it as a focal point. Right now I watch the skaters. They still skate around City Hall and then they go downtown and they skate and then they come back up here just to do some, little bit on here but it's just flat so they so, ah, go back downtown on the curbs and the rails. So put something up here, they're going to be here so. But it'sjust one of those things where it's a lot of questions and we only have $15,000 and that's not going to do it. Do we spend $15,000 and buy the first ramp and put it out there and go from there or... LAND ACQUISITION. Hoffman: Item b, we're moving forward. The City Attorney's office is working with Mr. Fox's attorney and seems to be progressing smoothly. AQUATIC NEEDS ANALYSIS. Hoffman: Last night Mr. Tom Schaffer spoke to the City Council on his request and there was some confusion. My recollection was that we made a motion to send this to the City Council and that did not reflect in the minutes and so the council asked...make sure we make clear and concise motions. We talked about two things in the minutes. Talked about bringing it back to the commission and then let's send it up for council reaction to see if they'd be in favor of it. And nevertheless, the Council wants to talk to the commission about it. If you look in the minutes, they reflect that. They'd like to talk about a more comprehensive and perhaps scientific needs analysis for a whole variety of different capital projects which includes a library, fitness center, community center and pools, that type of thing so. Something we'll want to talk about in the upcoming meeting. Manders: I guess my idea is that, is the material that we gathered from the referendum, is that out of date or incomplete that we couldn't get that? Hoffman: There are some questions that have to do with that but it's not. Manders: It's not complete. Hoffman: No. It talks about pools a little bit and so there are a few questions in here that were kind of supplement. Lash: That was kind of mine. I'm thinking too Jim, and the other thing is okay so these surveys cost a lot of money to do and in the end what are we going to do with it? 39 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: Yeah, if you don't have a funding source identified or a desire to do it, the $7,500 was invested in the referendum survey because you were proposing a referendum. Lash: And I don't know that anybody's on track for that now so do we want to spend money on a survey that's going to tell us there's certain groups of people who want things. I think we already know that. Howe: That we can't afford. Lash: That we can't afford, right. And again the bottom line question is, you want it but do you want to pay for it and generally the answer is no. So then we're back to how are we going to do it? So I think we already know that people want, a group of people who want a community center and there's a group of people who want more trails and there's a group of people who want all kinds of things but we don't have the money for any of it so what's the point? So what do we want to do? Manders: Well I think they want to talk about it, right? Lash: At that meeting, okay. Okay. COMMISSION ATTENDANCE AT CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS. Hoffman: Would you like to accept, reject or modify the proposal which is a couple of pages down. Where I talk about the joint meeting in the Admin Packet .... and so it's a late meeting. Please make every attempt to schedule that. And then the council, they had discussions about having a council representative to the commission but they also passed that back and they said well instead of having kind of this random attendance at council meetings, you know how bout having the monthly attendance. Planning Commission does that where they send somebody at, whether there's really any items of interest to park and rec or not. Just to keep in touch with the council, because many times they, during council presentations they bring up items. I was there for my scheduled items last night but then they talked about a couple of items after I had left under council presentations. So you never know when they're going to bring issues up and. That would mean I think about 3 meetings per year. Lash: Are you talking about a monthly meeting or are they still meeting weekly? Hoffman: This would be at their normal council meetings they have twice a month. Second and fourth Monday. Lash: But they talk about this stuff in-between too don't they? Hoffman: Yeah, work sessions. I wouldn't propose that we start attending work sessions but then you would need... 4O Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: So you're saying you want, we would just automatically go whether there was something . on the agenda or not? Hoffman: Yes. We would mail you an agenda and items which we know have to do with park and rec, and then you would attend the meeting. Lash: So if it wasn't a park and rec night, no one would have to go? Hoffman: Your decision. Again, some nights they bring things up. Franks: What's the expectation of the commissioner who attends the City Council meeting? Is it to observe and take notes or is it to be an active participant or be the spokesperson for the commission or all those? Howe: I think it's a good idea. Franks: My concern though is if it's something that just comes up, you know that really hasn't been a part of our commission process and that person's put in the position to give some comment but really it's personal opinion... Hoffman: Correct, yeah. It's one or the other. If you're representing an item which has been forwarded to the council, then you're representing the commission. If they just bring up and ask you, you'd say well I'll give you my opinion. I'm just one of the commissioners but I can tell you that this is my personal opinion. I would have to go back and address this to the park commission to find out what they would think as a whole. As a body. Howe: I think it's a good idea to get a relations back on more of an even keel with the council. So we're not, if there's something on the commission, has an interest in that's on tap that night, I think somebody should be there. Lash: And if you can't go, do you want us to just go ahead and find a replacement that night on our own or do you want us to contact you or what kind of procedure? Hoffman: Yeah, you'd want to contact somebody else and just have their phone number. And only in the case if there's something coming up. They're very willing to ask, if you're into it, if you're there. Berg: I can tell you right now I can't go on the 14th. Does anybody want to switch? Lash: Well I didn't go last night. Franks: I'll be here anyway. I'll be at the meeting. Lash: On the 14~h you'll be? 41 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: Fred, are you taking July 26th then? Berg: Sure. I think I can. Lash: Does anybody else know ahead of time you have a conflict? Do you need a motion on this? That this would now be a policy. Hoffman: Yeah, that would be good to put in the minutes. Lash: Okay. Somebody make a motion. Howe: I move that the Park and Rec Commission have a member of the commission in attendance at City Council meetings when there is a park and rec item on the agenda. Lash: Is there a second to that? Moes: Second. Howe moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Rec Commission have a member of the commission in attendance at City Council meetings when there are park and rec items on the agenda. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Manders: Just for my benefit. Is this something that we were always, and you would notify people that their turn is up... Hoffman: But that just got a little lapsed. Manders: Wasn't that the intention though? Hoffman: That was the intent of that policy, yes it was. Manders: It's like I haven't gone to these but I haven't been notified to go either so it's not like I wasn't going. Hoffman: This is more automatic. We'll mail you the agenda and mail you the item. There is a park and rec item on these 80% of the time. Whether it be an item for discussion or admin. Lash: Looking at the rest of the administrative packet. I guess I was interested in the Kreisler... I don't know what else we can do. You know...I mean they're selling their home exactly the way they bought it. And I don't understand why anything that we have done is causing them to take a bath selling their home. And it's exactly the same thing as what they bought, right? Exactly the same condition. So I don't, I think we're all very sympathetic to their situation and we expressed that that night, but really felt that our hands were tied at some point with trying to help them in any way. 42 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Berg: That's the one Jim with the trail easement going right next to the house. Manders: Where was this? Lash: Up in Fox Chase. And it goes down to access Lotus. So I guess I'd be kind of interested in just being kept up to date if anything happens. Hoffman: Barbara Kreisler was in for two days, approximately a total of 8 hours taking copies of files, information back when this property was platted. Probably a good month since that time... Manders: One question. Is this December 8th meeting, is that a Wednesday for Council or is that a misprint? Hoffman: That's a misprint. It'd be the first Monday in December. Manders: First Monday, so that would be the 6th then. Hoffman: Correct. Apologize for that. Lash: Okay, anybody have anything else? Hoffman: Joint meeting coming up. That will be your next meeting. It's just around the comer. We have 45 minutes and it sounds like we're going to be talking about surveys and lots of capital improvement items. How are we going to address that money? ...Is that towards the back must be? Karlovich: Kind of one third the way in past the... Lash: Oh, the old Lake Lucy Road trail easement one? Is that what you're talking about? Hoffman: ...Jan, you'll probably recall that easement. I don't know if anyone else would. Lash: Yeah, I remember that. It went, wasn't there a cul-de-sac? I don't know if it went between two lots or whatever and it got them back over into the Pheasant Hills area kind of. So they could get to the park. But I think that was our idea but not necessarily, what was the reason that the council opposed it? Hoffman: I'm not so sure that it ever go to the council. The commission... Lash: I thought we supported it. I was thinking that we were and in here it says, they said that too. That the City Council voted down the Park and Recreation Commission's recommendation that the city easement between...be converted into a trail. Hoffman: ...terminates at Pheasant Hill Park... At the time Pheasant Hill Park was being developed, we said so where's our user group? Obviously this neighborhood. Also, just north 43 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 west of Galpin area. We had difficulty getting the park in...Lake Lucy Road. This right-of-way, if you can see this line right there, that's public right-of-way owned by the City of Chanhassen right off... Back some 8-10 years ago, Mr. Palmer requested a vacation of sorts in that area. At that time the engineering department asked me to review whether or not we'd like to maintain that trail alignment through there. In the record and minutes that I've discovered and read so far, these resident showed up your meeting voicing their concern about putting that trail in that back yard. And you voted to retain the easement rights but not to move forward with a trail at that time. And from what I can find, that never went to council. So I believe what's represented here is that they recall being at a park commission meeting where the objections to the trail raised by the property owners adjacent to the proposed Pheasant Hill development. Lash: The trail goes along Lake Lucy Road? Hoffman: Well...between the public road and Whitetail Court Ridge Court and the public road which ends right here. The public road ends right here. This public road ends right here. He was trying to make that connector... Lash: Oh, okay. See I was thinking, oh that's that, okay. Yep, yep, yep. Hoffman: That's what they're asking for. Berg: How much distance are we talking? Hoffman: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, about 6 blocks. Lash: So they'd be able to come in off of Galpin on that cul-de-sac, right? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: But it goes between two houses? Hoffman: It goes between one...one of them being Commissioner Karlovich's and... Lash: Were you one who was here opposing it? Karlovich: No. I think that happened before I purchased the house. Or purchased the lot from, what's his name? Hoffman: Palmer. Karlovich: Palmer. And he was holding that last lot but I think the, a lot of the residents, if you know the area, remember the hill going down that they call dead man's curve? If you're trying to get to the park there from the west, or the north, the west there, you don't go down dead man's curve and then back up the hill and you don't go all the way down to Lake Lucy. You kind of cut through somewhere and what you have is an old right-of-way which the landowners have just 44 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 kind of taken and turned it into their own back yard. And actually you go right past my driveway, what happens is a lot of the kids even cut through there somewhere and what you're going to do is you're going to get a lot of objection from those landowners that have it as their back yard and I'd have to say you know personally my own lot, it will make it less private but probably for the better public good to have that connection through there so the kids can cut through and get to Pheasant Hill Park. I won't be voting on it. It will affect my property but I don't know if you want to have them take a walk out and see the situation or. You're going to get some neighborhood objection there but trails are felt are good... You already have the right- of-way so it'd be pretty cheap to do it. Kind ora toss up. Otherwise there is no way to get across to that park property. Berg: It's not as much a safety issue as it is, they're making their way through there somehow anyway. This would just define where they'd go. Karlovich: ... Manders: Is there side road crossing thing there that they're doing that creates a conflict? Hoffman: No. That Whitetail Ridge Court? Manders: Well crossing Galpin. I mean you're talking about people cutting across there to get through there. That's almost implying some kind of road crossing. Right? I mean is that a danger that you want to. Franks: So you're saying if we go ahead and do a connector like that, we're going to be encouraging people to cut across Galpin. Manders: That's what I'm wondering. Is that the case? I mean certainly I'd have no problems with that, with each side of Galpin taking advantage of that but the west side is, I don't know if that creates a problem. Hoffman: Well if you don't live in that cul-de-sac, you have to come from somewhere else to get to that connection so you would be encouraging others to take advantage of it and I don't think there's an implied liability there but. Manders: I'm just throwing a question out. Hoffman: People cross the streets at free will. Just whether or not you think it's a good idea. Manders: Sight lines will determine whether or not there's a risk. Lash: Well it sounds like they're already doing it anyway. Franks: Yeah, and Pheasant Hill is the neighborhood park for the residents on the west side of Galpin there? 45 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: That was my question too. Hoffman: Or Minnetonka Intermediate. Franks: Or the intermediate school. Lash: Because we don't have plans for anything else going in. Franks: But the intermediate school's just got like the play equipment for. Karlovich: Intermediate school context... Terrible. Have you been there lately?... Hoffman: That doesn't matter. That doesn't offend me any. Berg: What if before the next meeting we schedule a field trip and look into we put it on the agenda for next time? Hoffman: Okay. Lash: Good idea Fred. Okay, was there anything else anybody had for the administrative packet? Ruegemer: Chair Lash I had the...hand a packet of information out...the Girl Scouts request. Karlovich: Do you need a motion on that or how would you schedule that? Hoffman: You want to schedule more than a field trip? A public hearing? Berg: No. Don't want a public hearing. Howe: Why? Franks: Well, do you want to go out and look at it and then have a public hearing right away? I was just under the impression we were talking about going out and looking at it and seeing if we wanted to go further. Lash: ...want to go further is what's the people who live on... If they want it or don't want it. Franks: Personally I'd like to go out there and look and then see and then maybe get some information about like what that 600 foot segment would cost. And is it something that we can fit in when we're looking at the CIP and improvements. I mean before we go so far as to create a big issue and then as it tums out we can't do it anyway. I mean I think about all the construction and problems that we ran into with the trail along the Kreislers property and then you know where would it go and what kind of. 46 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Lash: We could go look in June. Talk it over that night and then decide if we want to put it on our July. It's not going to happen this summer anyway. It's not in the budget so it might be much ado about nothing. Berg: That's a good suggestion I think too. Hoffman: Field trip. Lash: Okay. We're back to the extended hours then. Ruegemer: Did everyone have a chance to read that? Berg: What's that? Ruegemer: The Girl Scout... Hoffman: Well they gave them the paddle boats. They're going to give them this hands down. Lash: So could we have it open for them but they'll close the gate at 10:00 so other people aren't. Hoffman: There's no gate. Berg: Will there be people in there playing ball? Ruegemer: No. Not that. Berg: They won't be tempted tojust go down to the beach seeing that it's open? Ruegemer: The? Berg: Ballplayers. Ruegemer: Ballplayers? No. This is a co-rec night. Friday night and it won't be. Their last games are done by a little bit after 8:00. Unless they have a rain out make-up but that can be pretty low key that night. Lash: So they're going to provide supervision, public safety. Sheriff department will be notified. Ruegemer: I was talking about having Carver County do some patrol out there. Berg: Are we going to have the concession stand open? 47 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Ruegemer: No. Berg: Why not make a couple bucks? Lash: Well and they wouldn't be swimming? Ruegemer: No, no. Vicky did assure me that. I did ask that and no, nothing after 8:00. Hoffman: Campfire and marshmallows. Lash: Does somebody want to make a motion? Franks: I move that we approve the request from Girl Scout Troop 548 to use Lake Ann Park on Friday, July 23rd from 6:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. Berg: Second. Franks moved, Berg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the request from Girl Scout Troop 548 to use Lake Ann Park on Friday, July 23ra from 6:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m.. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Lash: Okay, this was in...there's from Minnesota Recreation and Park Association, some seminar thing. One is on June 17th at 6:30 at the Maplewood Community Center...I'll pass this around if you're interested. We'd have to register. The other one is an annual summer tour that's hosted by the Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed. You went on this didn't you last year Mike? Howe: I went on a bus tour. That's a 3 day event... Lash: Okay, anyway I'll pass this, I'll send this down this way. If anybody's interested, contact Todd? Hoffman: Yes. There's some Chanhassen... Lash: Did we have any commission member committee reports? Anyone? Commission member presentations? Franks: I just have something quick. I've been sending away for a variety of promotional materials from various companies and one of the things that we seem to be lacking here, and it's not necessarily along with the aquatics assessment, but other than like our beaches at Lake Ann and on Lake Minnewashta, we don't really have any significant like water feature. Especially one that is really geared towards little children. And there's a wide variety of companies that put these together, and they have all different types of options. Even options that don't include the necessity to have standing water or recirculating systems which really bump up the expense of 48 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 these things. I have like a really short video tape and some material of the one company that I liked the best of the information I received. So if anybody wants it, I'm asking... Hoffman: How short is it? Franks: About 2 minutes. Hoffman: Well put it in. (Commissioner Franks showed a video tape at this point in the meeting.) Lash: Okay, anybody else? Fred you have something, don't you? Berg: Yeah, I'm just giving you my homework assignment. This is what I was able to get out of the local history stuff. I don't know what you want to do with it from this point on. I was a little bit unsure of a couple of the names. Like with the Coulters, I'm not sure that Gene Coulter that everything is centered around here, and it goes back to the early 60's. I didn't see anybody I didn't think that went, seemed to be the leader of the group in terms of the Mayor and founder of the American Legion and. Hoffman: Sounds right. Berg: I wasn't sure about the Kerber either so ! basically went with early dairy farmers. Sort of cover all the Kerbers in town. That should be Gene Coulter by the way. I thought George Powers was sort interesting. They never proved that he was an embezzler and a thief but the person who was supposed to testify or whatever just sort of mysteriously disappeared and it never really went to trial. Lash: But he was active in local politics. Berg: But he was an active politician, yeah. So anyway, where we go with it now is up to whatever we want to do. Hoffman: Okay. Berg: If you want me to try to find more, I can go, I can do it. Or if there's any other names you would suggest that we don't have on here. These came from, mostly from Ron and I. Lash: So you said Lake Lucy was the daughter, or Lucy was the daughter of Burret and Claret Judd. And Ann was the wife of William Judd. So how does he? Berg: Yeah. They're brothers. Burret and William came out together with their families. Lash: One was named after somebody's daughter and one was named after somebody's wife. And Lake Susan is named after Susan Hazeltine. 49 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Berg: Yeah. Now I didn't find that in the book but I've talked to a number of people that said that's what happened. That's what it was named after. Lash: And then where's Lake Hazeltine? Hoffman: Chaska. Berg: Oh that is in Chaska isn't it. Scratch that one then. Lash: I had heard that Lucy and Susan were all named after somebody's daughters but. Somebody's daughters. So what's your next step? Berg: Well, how would you like me to proceed? Ideally I suppose come up with a pithy two or three word description. I mean if you had Kerber Boulevard and something about the first dairy farmers in the area or something and just something real short and quick. Lash: By Kerber Pond Park. Berg: Well I was wondering about that too. I was thinking if you put it, maybe by Kerber Pond Park too but if you put it at both ends. Up here and then down by Powers. If you put them in strategic spots so people would see it somewhere along their travels. Hoffman: Walking around. Berg: Yeah. Lash: Are those the only roads that are named after? Berg: Those are the ones that came to mind right away. I don't know, can you think of any others? Hoffman: Pauly Drive. Berg: Pauly Drive, where's that? Hoffman: Movie theater. Ruegemer: By the bowling alley. Hoffman: Lyman Boulevard. Lash: He's got Lyman here. He's got Lyman. Franks: There's a Vogelsberg Lane too. 5O Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Berg: Vogelsberg? Hoffman: Yeah, the strategic places are where these trail intersections cross so a person can have the chance to stop and cross. Conversation with their neighbors. Manders: So the direction of this is to say what kind of verbiage we're going to include on... Berg: Do you want me, should we work something up? Lash: I couldn't think of anything. Manders: I don't know how I'd take that Fred. Lash: He says wants it to be pithy. Hoffman: Does anybody want to do a pooper scooper ordinance? Lash: You know I've seen a, on my way to work every day in Prior Lake they have along the trail that's along the road I'm on, a green sign. It has a dog on it, a white dog and then in white letters it says, leash and pick-up. That says it all. Some of those in strategic places or. Hoffman: I walk Kerber Boulevard an awful lot now and I get the question from both sides of the aisle. Those who are mad that the others aren't picking up so you've got the baggers and the no baggers. Lash: The walkers who don't have dogs. Hoffman: A local war out there. Lash: Okay, anybody else have anything? Manders: I was just going to make a couple comments on one thing, and this is going back to our five year thing. Are we talking non-park kinds of things at all in that? Because I'm thinking of, I don't know, like trail crossings over TH 5 and hooking up to that. That overpass or, I don't know if this railroad depot thing, if that's city stuff or if that's not park concern or, they're non- park kind of issues that are part of this capital. Hoffman: Yeah, they could be identified trail connections that haven't routinely received the attention that they could in the CIP. Manders: Thought came to me afterwards so, but I don't know if they should be included in that. Moes: Or maybe we can talk about them later on. 51 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Hoffman: What we should probably include is every segment of the park map that is not built and put them into the CIP. Lash: You know I've brought this up before too is the Red-E-Mix site and I can't, I can never remember what. Hoffman: That's in the HRA's hands. The HRA. As is the pedestrian bridge. As is the depot. Lash: City Council has talked priorities of a big community gathering place and now that Ron's gone we can't forget about performing arts something. You know some kind of a, either art center or amphitheater thing. I guess some of those topics actually are pretty big items and if it's not things that the City Council is supportive of, you know should we just be letting go of it or what should we be doing with it? Hoffman: History says that Fund 410 has never paid for a major trail project so do you confuse people by including them? I mean they've participated. Fund 410 has participated but it's never been the parent cash flow for the. Lash: Yeah, but we've made some different trail connections and things like that we've done. Hoffman: Yep. Lash: I guess I was wondering you know the one on 101 that we wanted to try and do to connect. Hoffman: Oh yeah, that's not in there. Lash: Yeah. I justthought of that. Franks: Like down to Bandimere? Lash: Yep. It's got to get done. Hoffman: 101 connector trail. Good points at this late hour. Moes: Got to go in before they break ground on 212 too. Mander: Yeah, good, yeah. Well that might be a while but yeah. Lash: Anything else? Manders: One other minor detail on this listing for my work number is actually my fax number so I don't know if...that might hurt the ear. It's 519-4633. Lash: Okay, is there a motion to adjourn? Are you done Jim? 52 Park & Rec Commission Meeting - May 25, 1999 Manders: One other comment. Lash: Okay, sorry. Manders: Maps. I vote Chanhassen maps better than Chaska's maps. Good map. Hoffman: Thanks. Manders: Now I'm done Jan. Lash: Okay. Anybody else? Motion to adjourn? Moes moved, Howe seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 53