1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 27, 2000
Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Mike Howe, Jim Manders, David Moes, Jay Karlovich, Fred Berg
and Rod Franks.
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: The Agenda was approved as presented.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg moved, Moes seconded to approve the Park and Recreation
Commission Minutes dated May 23, 2000 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously.
GUEST PRESENTATION~ BRIAN HUBBARD~ DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT YMCA OF
METROPOLITAN MINNEAPOLIS.
Brian Hubbard: Good evening. I'm happy to be here. To give you a little bit of background here. First 1
would say that presentation is not going to be the correct term. l'm looking for dialogue here and the gist
of my reason for being here tonight is, the YMCA Metropolitan Minneapolis has a general Board of
Directors that oversees all of the operations in the Minneapolis and surrounding suburban area. And they
have put together a new visions task force. That task force determined areas that the YMCA should look
at growth opportunities and of that they determined three areas that are growing areas that may have
some needs for an increased YMCA presence. The Carver County area is one of those areas and so I've
been assigned the task of trying to determine is there a need for an increased YMCA presence. So that
comes the dialogue. I'll give you a little bit of information here but I had a meeting with Todd and with
Scott about a month ago and shared that this is what we're doing. I'm spending the summer meeting
with anybody that will meet with me to talk about the YMCA. What the YMCA is. What possibilities
are, and then to get feedback. The YMCA is the type of organization that without the community
supporting it, being excited about it, wanting it, is not an organization that will be successful and so
we're not interested in coming in and popping up a facility or starting a major program until we've got all
the players that would have a stake in that, have said yes. We'd like to do it. A little bit about me. I like
talking about the Y because I grew up in a Y and | was a young teenager who was needing some stuff to
do, like many teenagers and went to camp for a summer and the Y kind of hooked me in from there.
Allowed me to make sure that I was on the right path. Have good role models, etc and started working
with the Y part time and then full time and now nobody else will take me so. The Y is something I'm
very passionate about, and I enjoy talking to people about the Y because not knowing where any of you
have come from, the Y has a wonderful history. We're celebrating 150 years of successful programming.
1 spent prior to my current assignment, I spent a number of years with the YMCA in St. Paul and my
major focus there was on similar development work in the communities of Woodbury and Eagan and
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Hudson, Wisconsin as they were starting to grow. And those communities we started off with full store
front operations and small programs and ali three of those communities now have facilities so I enjoy
development work. I enjoy exploring the communities what a YMCA can do for a community and so I
enjoy telling the story. I guess what I'd like to get out of my time up here tonight is, again to tell you
about what the Y is. A little bit about our new development initiative and then to start a dialogue about
the possibilities. Exploring needs and opportunities for programming, for partnership, for facilities, etc.
And obviously my sense would be that this is the right group to get that feedback from above everybody
else. Business folks and other community leaders can say yeah, we need or no, we don't need but my
sense is that this is the group that really has the pulse on that need so I'm really excited to be here. Did
you all receive the packet? Okay. That packet was just intended as generic information. It's information
that I'm taking around as I go because I never know, especially well, I never know what people know
about the YMCA. So that information is just intended as generic information to give you a little bit of
history background about what the Y is. What some YMCA programs may look like. The mission
statement of the YMCA is to build the total person, spirit, mind and body through character development
programs that build strong kids, strong families and strong communities. So I didn't have that written
down. l just recited it. And we really cling to that mission statement as an important part of what we do.
I think it's important for anybody who would choose to work with the YMCA, or to participate in YMCA
programs to understand that we really see our work as relationship work and that programs are a
mechanism by which we connect with people and get them in, but it's the relationships we develop from
that that are important. Ifl were to answer the question, what is a YMCA. That would be as different as
the 2,500 plus YMCA's that are in existence around the country. Every YMCA and one of the joys of
working for YMCA is that I can be in a community and look at what community needs are. Where are
the gaps and figure out if the Y can fill them so I don't know that you will find a text book box of what a
YMCA is. But a couple certainly over riding themes ora YMCA. The first one is strong kids. Now
these are all going to relate to our tag lines that you see on everything that we do. The YMCA is the
number one provider of child care nation wide. We have the most kids involved in child care of
anybody. We're a leader in teaching children to swim and aquatics programs. We are I think a leader in
youth sports programming, and the philosophy of teaching kids sports and teamwork and good values and
letting them learn the game. We typically stay away from more of the competitive aspect. We're a
leader in camping and we most certainly are a leader in most communities that we work in in the area of
youth and teen development. And we enjoy in all of our YMCA's in Minneapolis, wonderful
relationships with cities and schools and other agencies around how do we help our young people
become successful. The YMCA is strong families. We are focused on family night programs. Programs
that bring busy families together. We're focused on parent-child types of programs. We're focused on
providing opportunities for all members of the family. If you walk into a YMCA facility, there's
something for everybody to be a part of. If it's not a facility, we try to provide programming from very
young to very old. To encompass the entire family. And we certainly, the YMCA is strong communities.
As l said earlier we, the Y focuses on providing programs that meet a community need and that are
unique to what the community might need. YMCA provides financial assistance for all of our programs
and it's something that we're very proud of. That we are very adamant that no person will not be
allowed to participate in YMCA programs because of their inability to pay the fee. As I said, the Y's in
over 2,500 communities in the United States and over 200 countries world wide. The YMCA is a
volunteer run organization. We are set up in a structure of boards that are volunteers from the
community that give leadership to staff in terms of how things are run so that we can continue to always
have the pulse on the community. And YMCA's are community supported. All YMCA's do fund
raising in some capacity and that money stays in that community and we look to communities to be an
important part of making a YMCA successful. We're also part of, if I were to answer the question, what
is a YMCA? The triangle YMCA is actually has a definition, spirit, mind and body are the three sides of
the triangle. That's what the Y was founded on. And so our programming is intended to focus on those
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
areas. So we have spirit programs and that has changed through the years as some of you may know. We
really look at spirit as trying to help people understand their heart, their values. Ail of our programs have
what we call our character development values which are caring, honestly, respect and responsibility. So
if you're in an adult basketball program or if you are in swimming lessons or if you're at camp or if
you're in a senior program, those are going to be things that we're going to try and make sure that you're
hearing on a consistent basis. The importance of those. We are an organization that's focused on mind.
We do numerous tutoring programs that partner with schools to provide opportunities. We try to partner
with parents to help them to figure out ways that they can be successful with their young people in
education or in a young person's personal growth. Be it learning a skill, learning a sports skill. And
we're focused on body and the whole arena of health enhancement and we feel that's an important part of
our mission of people being physically fit and we have a pretty unfit society and we want to be a part of
helping to make people healthier, be it through aerobic classes or strength training or any gambit of
wellness programs. That's a snapshot of what I would suggest a YMCA is. In terms of the new
development, as I explained, the new vision task force has decided that Carver County is an area that we
should be looking at and throughout the summer I'm meeting with folks. I expect that by the end of
August I'll probably have 70 meetings with different people to try and gather that input and what the
needs are. Where the potential partnerships are, and then at the end of the summer the goal would be to
establish a task force of community folks and |'11 present that information to those people and say here's
the information that | think l've heard. Does that information sound correct and then what are we going
to do with it? Do we want to make this something more? Do we want to say there's not a need for a
YMCA presence. Where do we go from there? So that really will be the community that will determine
if and how. So I think that's important for me to share with you upfront is that there isn't necessarily a
hidden agenda here that we want to plop a YMCA facility across the street. That's not the goal. The
goal is to determine is there a need and if so, what is the need and how can we be a part of it. A little bit
of history of what the YMCA has done in this area. As 1 assume you all know, we've been working for a
number of years now with the Park and Rec Department in the area of preschool youth sports and we've
found that to be a very successful program. That is a program that is very similar to what you would see
in most YMCA's around the country and so we've enjoyed that partnership with the city. We have
partnered with the school district on some of their sum~ner school. They call it summer express programs
and providing components of that for a couple years. We've been involved in the Club Mid partnership
which is the schools and the cities and a number of looking at opportunities for middle schoolers and we
have done at various times throughout the last 3-4 years. And a small scale family programs, we've done
some child care with the private school in Chaska. So we have done some programming but not even
scratched the surface I would suggest in what the opportunities could be. Would it be helpful for me to
explain to you what's in the packet? |just need a yes or a no and if not, 1 won't.
Lash: I looked through it.
Berg: I don't think.
Brian Hubbard: Okay. It's pretty self explanatory.
Lash: Yeah it is.
Brian Hubbard: I will save you that then. And I brought a video to show. It's a real short one, about 6
minutes and the video is, it's a tour through a virtual Y. And the reason I'm showing the video is because
it certainly shows what a YMCA facility looks like but | think most people know that. What I like about
it, it was produced by our national office and it really gives a snapshot of what some of the programmatic
opportunities are. We really look at a facility as a tool, just like arts and crafts supplies or a tool.., it's
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
what we do with that that really makes it powerful and so don't be so concerned with looking at the
facility, but more listening to what kinds of things the YMCA is involved in. So if we can watch this for
a minute and then I have a few questions for you.
The Park and Rec Commission was shown a video on the YMCA at this point in the meeting.
Brian Hubbard: So again I show you that to suggest that a YMCA in a community can be very diverse in
what it is that it is. What that YMCA looks like. Most YMCA's enjoy wonderful partnerships with
organizations in the community so again the Y is not duplicating. If an organization's doing child care, if
an organization is going aquatics, well the Y doesn't have an interest nor a desire to duplicate but rather
to find then what the other nitches are and fortunately I think we have a diverse enough opportunity of
programs that that's something that can happen. So I guess maybe what I'll do first is ask if there are
questions about the Y in general or things that I can clarify or what this new development thing is or?
Lash: I bet we all probably have some questions. Can we do this in an orderly fashion? Why don't we
just start with Jim.
Manders: Okay. I guess to me there's the basic piece ofa Y program is the actual scheduling of the
programming event and then a facility. Evidently you or you're involved in some of the programming
activities now. So my question is in terms of where we're looking to go and I know that's your question
too. You know, what do we do? Do we deal some type of facility or do we use what we have now in
terms of a rec center and just expand on that or do we just limit it to current summer programming or you
know.
Brian Hubbard: You're asking the question that I'm asking and the answer that I would give from the
YMCA perspective is that the Minneapolis YMCA is positioned very well right now. Financially the Y
is solvent and that wasn't the case even 5-10 years ago. And so as a non-profit the Y's very successful.
With our corporate board of directors, they've given us the reign to say that the sky's the limit and so that
may mean that there's an increased YMCA presence that is program based where we're looking at
churches or schools or the rec center or something to provide those programs. But that's not to preclude
that there are not opportunities to look at facilities. Be it joint facilities or not that but, a store front.
There are certainly YMCA's that have a program center that is basically the front ora store and that
programming happens there so, I'm not answering the question except to say that 1 think, as far as the
YMCA's concerned, we are wide open for what the possibilities could be and how we can partner and
how we can fill the hitch. Tell me if I'm.
Manders: No. I mean it's just kind of an observation and I know we're full of essentially the same
question. In terms of, and I don't how to arrive at this question, cost or it's a matter of how much does
the city want to put into it or what is required and what's required is how much you want. You know in
terms of what one does is it basically within the community or is it a county wide thing or what are you
looking at? I mean you're saying Carver County but you're talking to the city of Chanhassen.
Brian Hubbard: Are you speaking as it relates to a facility specifically?
Manders: Yeah.
Brian Hubbard: Okay. As it relates to a facility, certainly my plan will be through the summer to have
discussions with all of the communities in the county at some level. Be it with staff or with policy
makers. When I met with Todd and Scott, their suggestion was right away, I think that you should come
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
and talk to the commission and see what their feedback is. But I will be having conversations with
Chaska and with Victoria and with Waconia at least. I have talked with the County a little bit, and so
that's why I'm standing here right now. In terms of if there was a facility at some point, we would be
looking for some kind ora partnership because the YMCA is a community based organization. And what
does partnership mean? I think it looks different everywhere. There are certainly communities that have
partnered with the Y. I'll give the example of Lino Lakes. Right now is in the process of YMCA
development and the city helped secure land. And that was their piece of the contribution. We would
look, if we decided to build a facility, we would look at doing a capital campaign that would certainly
encompass being in this community and the businesses and the individuals in this community, and that
would be supplemented by the efforts of the metropolitan organization which goes to the bigger
companies downtown. They would supplant that. Right now, a facility like that one is probably about a
$9 million facility. So again, tell me if I'm not answering the question. I don't want to be evasive but
I'm about as new to this as you are.
Manders: ...answer, I understand that. No, that's fine.
Brian Hubbard: Maybe I can say this. The YMCA is certainly not in a position in the facility world to
build a facility on it's own. 1 don't think that the Y has the financial resource to make that happen. But
through partnerships, certainly the Y would be a very active, the most active of course partner in making
that happen. But there are other arrangements as well. There certainly are cities and schools and other
agencies that partner and they are joint facilities and that is certainly an option as well.
Lash: Are you done Jim?
Manders: Yeah.
Lash: Jay.
Karlovich: First of all I think the YMCA coming to the City of Chanhassen would be something very
good for the city of Chanhassen. In the city I see that you know, at least for my family, we go to the, we
were going to the Chaska Comlnunity Center that had indoor aquatics. We don't really have any of that
here within our city. Otherwise, 1 know my wife goes all the way to Minnetonka to Northwest for kind of
her workout. I belong to Lifeti~ne because | work on the other side of the city but I have to actually go to
Bloomington or to Plymouth. I know my, some of my relatives, a lot of them use the Y quite a bit
because of it's Iow cost and some of the facilities that it provides even are less expensive than like a
Lifetime or a Northwest. When can we get started? When can we build that facility and where can it be
located is what I'm thinking and let's use some of the park acquisition fund or do whatever we can but I
think it, I think the parks commission and the city should at least support something at least, a facility
like this in the city of Chanhassen would be I think great. How can it not be a plus, but that's just my
personal observation.
Lash: Okay. Are you done?
Karlovich: Yeah.
Lash: Okay, thanks. Fred.
Berg: I guess I sort of echo some of the same sentiment. I wasn't sure exactly why you were going to be
here tonight. I thought it was to talk maybe about expanding some of the programs that you're already
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
doing out at the Rec Center. I thought okay. This is terribly exciting. This would meet a need in this
community that we've had for a long time and have tried to get for a long time. What do you do for high
school kids?
Brian Hubbard: Well, again I think especially most of my YMCA career has been in the area of youth
development. Prior to moving into this less fun paper pushing kinds of stuff. And in 10 years of youth
work I really relied on partnerships to provide programming so at different YMCA's I've been at we've
had Youth and Government which is a program that's a statewide program. That gets students in middle
school, high school grades participating in the government process and learning about the government.
We have various service types of programs. We really are a proponent in our youth development
philosophy that one way to help kids be more successful is to teach them that giving service to others is a
good thing and so with different spins on it. Service learning and community service is probably the
biggest part of what we do for any group of teens. And then certainly some YMCA's have more at
risk.., most of our YMCA's in Minneapolis have a couple of youth development workers who's job is to
work with different communities to help identify what those young people need and develop
relationships. The Ridgedale Y works with Minnetonka Heights, which is not very far from here.
During the summer and basically they drive up in a van one afternoon and whoever comes and they try to
figure out what to do with them and how to plug them into things and so it really depends on what the
community's doing but I certainly think the service arena would be something that you would see in all
programs for teens.
Berg: Absolutely. I mean we've tried for years here to establish some sort of youth center and we've
struggled with what it would be and what it would look like and never got very far at all. Ridgedale for
example, do they have programs where the kids, teens feel co~nfortable just coming in, I know it's like
the foosball and things like that, but not specifically but things where they feel comfortable just coming
in and it's a place to bang out.
Brian Hubbard: We've dabbled with it and I'll save you my soapbox about youth and teen centers except
to say that the teen centers that Ridgedale is working with right now successfully are teen centers that are
actually happening in direct partnersh!p with the schools and are happening in the school. So Y staff
come in and there's a designated area and they come after school and in two of the schools in Plymouth
and one school in Hopkins we have that model and it's very successful right now. And the issue is that,
okay I said I wouldn't soapbox but the issue is that you ask any young person in America, what do they
need. They say they need a place to hang out. You provide them with a place to hang out and they don't
come. Now you have taken a huge step in that skate park because they will come to that. But a teen
center is an interesting beast and the learning for me in that previous statement is that it is not the center.
It is the relationships and so it's the people that we put in there as staff and as mentors that are really
what draw the kids to come back and that they feel like they're welcome and it's a place to belong.
Berg: And this is a way off the wall question but I'll just ask it and then run. Would you ever think of
building a YMCA in conjunction with a library?
Brian Hubbard: Yes. Absolutely. There are YMCA's that, and we have a research department in our
national office that can tell you what YMCA's have worked with everything. There are many YMCA's
that collaborate with hospitals. That's a very common one to help people with physical therapy, etc. But
there are YMCA's that have partnered with communities in the community center concept and libraries
or study centers or computer labs. Those all could be a piece of it so that certainly is, there is, | think
there is no prototype YMCA.
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Berg: Because you have some things in common with meeting rooms and that sort of thing that can dove
tail a little bit. That's all.
Lash: Okay, are you done? Thank you. Okay, I have a couple of quick questions too and some I think
have already been asked but you already are kind of dabbling in just programming here, right? So we
could just expand that at this point in time. And what does a membership cost?
Brian Hubbard: Well that's a good task question. Is this being filmed? I should be able to roll this off
my tongue. I don't work in that end of the business a lot. An adult membership right now is, I'm
embarrassed to tell you that I don't know it for sure, but it's around $45 for a single adult membership.
Commission member: That's what I pay, that's right.
Brian Hubbard: Is that right? Thank you. And we have a dual membership which is a little bit more
than that and then a family membership would be about $63. And the way our fee structure works is that
we have a joiners fee, It's a one time fee at $79 and you don't pay that again, assuming you don't drop
your membership.
Lash: Okay, thanks.
Brian Hubbard: The $79 is one time. You don't pay it again. The other number is per month, yes.
Lash: Okay. How much land for the facility, a facility similar to what we saw in the video, how much
land would you need for something like that?
Brian Hubbard: We typically look at about 10 acres of land and certainly you see land more and land
less but typically in a facility like that you would have the facility ~vhich takes up probably 5 acres,
parking lot and then there's usually some ballfields, soccer fields. Those kind of things in the outside.
Lash: Okay. And I know that a lot of the programming in I think, I'll go along with Fred. I just think
this would be fabulous to have and ! would like to know from you what you would need from us. You
said you're not in a position to just go out and buy 10 acres and build this $9 million facility. What
would you need from the city to get something like that started?
Brian Hubbard: Well, because it's Chanbassen and as I continue to understand Chanhassen, land is
certainly the biggest issue. I think that we're going at it, if it's a city or if it's a hospital or school district
that we're partnering with, I think we're going at it, help us find the land and figure out how that can be
financed. And make some kind of contribution to this capital campaign and that number I think will be
across the board. I think that a standard ask would be help figure out the land situation and be willing to,
over some period of time, help with a million dollars of the $9 million project. Some communities that
would look like more. Some that would look like less but.
Lash: When you say help to secure land, what do you mean by that?
Brian Hubbard: Well that, I think that depends. I don't know, except that there's not a ton of it. I don't
know the land situation in Chanhassen. In Lino Lakes it was city owned land that they donated and in
conjunction from that, and residents of Lino Lakes have a discounted fees, etc so that was the
arrangement that was there. So they gave the land that was there that they owned and I believe a million
dollars is what they, so I can only give that as the most recent example of a partnership with the city.
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: So would any resident in Chanhassen then for any, or as long as they lived in the city, receive a
discounted membership?
Brian Hubbard: Well as we move forward down that road, that would be part of the negotiations. I do
not think Lino Lakes is a life long relationship. I think it's a 15 or 25 year agreement.
Lash: And I'll put this question up and Fred asked one about the library. We have, I don't know how
familiar you are with our layout but right next to us here is the library and then just beyond that is our
senior center and both of those facilities are fairly modest in size and I can see the day where both of
those need to be expanded in one way or another. Maybe the senior center could even be tied in with this
facility or the library which would then free up half of the space for one or the other but actually in the
end both of them could probably be over there but, ! think that's about it for my questions but I would be
very interested in recommending to the City Council that we would try to continue this conversation.
Rod?
Brian Hubbard: The piece I'd say about the senior center is, and the library certainly fits in there but,
that video when you look at the hallways and the seating areas and stuff, that was very intentional. I
think that most YMCA directors want their YMCA to be seen as a hub. As a place that the community
gathers. Whether they're members or not. In my previous role working with the Ridgedale Y my job
was to be responsible for all of our Outreach and in our community, our youth programs that happen
outside of the facility. That's why I can't rattle off the fees. And almost all of the participants that we
worked with in those programs were not members but they were in the Y for teen night or for youth
sports or whatever and so the concept of a senior center works perfect in that mix of being a place that is
a center for folks. A gathering place.
Lash: Just one quick question then. For those kinds of things, would you have to be a member to be able
to participate in the senior center or in a teen dance or any of those kinds of things?
Brian Hubbard: Typically not.
Lash: Is that a user fee or how would you do that?
Brian Hubbard: Yes. A teen night for instance, the Ridgedale Y holds a teen night and they have 200
junior high students on a Friday night and if4 of them were members 1 would be surprised on any given
night.
Lash: Okay, thanks. Rod.
Franks: I don't want to sound like a commercial but I used to be the detached worker at Ridgedale Y.
Brian Hubbard: Did you really? No kidding?
Franks: And the program director at Hiawatha before that.
Briau Hubbard: Great.
Franks: So 1 was also one of the kids that was raised in the Y and I just think that they create a wonderful
presence in any community. And I think that'd be a great thing to have that kind of presence here.
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Whether in a community programming facility or a full facility. My concern is, I remember the struggle
with Minnesota Valley and that took about 20 years to get built. Yeah really, almost 20 years to get built.
And that would be a really frustrating chain of events for a community like our's. And so I know that
what's on our minds is really looking at something more of along the lines of a full facility. We do have
gym space and we do have some programming space. What we really, really lack here is aquatics.
Indoor aquatics. And you know with all the children in this community, something that is really also
really child centered as well with the zero entry pools and some of the water slide and other kinds of
things. So I'd be really interested in looking at what the Y would have to offer and continuing a dialogue
with us about what our needs really are. And you know if it's focusing on aquatics and paring that 9
million down to 6 1/2 million and then sharing some programming space with spaces we already have or
doing some kind of work like that. Sue's very worried over here because our space is already maxed.
But I'd be really, really interested in that. 200 kids for a teen night is great. Hiawatha had packs drop in
center after school with high school kids every day of the week and you know Fred, we talk about how to
do it. I really, | believe the Y certainly possesses the expertise to do that kind of programming. They
certainly are able to attract energetic people to carry it out. So I'd like you to go back and figure out
exactly what the capital budget would be and what some of the numbers that you can come up with to see
what the Y would be willing to put on the line and see what we can develop here.
Brian Hubbard: Sure. Let me respond with two comments. With regards to Minnesota Valley. The
Miunesota Valley Y is the YMCA in Burnsville and tbey had, what we would call a store front operation
for 20 years. And at about year 8 they put up a sign on property that I think was a donated purchased
shared mix that said future home oftbe Minnesota Valley Y. And after 5 years that sign fell over and
they put the next sign up and after 5 more years tbat sign fell over. And so it was about I think 11 years
later that they actually built the facility. As we've talked about this new development initiative and
maybe I should mention this. When we say new development, the Minneapolis Y's focused on 3 areas.
The Carver County area, the Lakeville-Farmington area, and kind of the northwest corridor, Brooklyn
Park-Champlin-Maple Grove. Up in that area. Those are the areas that staff had been assigned to have
these dialogues. And one of the things as we embarked on that, all of us having been around for a while,
that we addressed with the powers that be is, that's going to be a question for folks is, are we going to
have rotted signs. Our CEO right now, Harold Mazell has been with us for almost 6 years and has been
very aggressive. You can look at the accomplishments of the last 6 years and see that we have seen
substantial development and he would like the Y to be very aggressive if we decide to move forward in
communities, to make sure that we don't have that elnbarrassment of 20 years later having to go back and
say, where is this thing and donors saying, give us our money back and those kinds of things. So I think
that's a legitimate concern and certainly one that we have as staffto make sure that as we plan this, part
of the planning is the feasibility stage and can we make this happen? Can we raise the money for
whatever that is? So, just so you kno~v that that's something we've talked about.
Franks: Are you aware, is the Minneapolis YMCA willing to commit to expanding through full facilities
or are they really looking to expand their programming presence? I mean what are you really looking to
do?
Brian Hubbard: I think that we, well let me answer the question two ways. And I don't, the first thing
I'll say is we're looking to expand programming because that's what we do. And again I don't want to be
clich~ but a facility is the way for us to provide programming. I think we're wide open to it but ! do think
that the corporate board wants to be very aggressive and if there are communities that come forward and
say we are interested in working with you on facility development, then that is what we're going to work
on. If communities come back and say we're interested in program development, then that's what we'll
do but I certainly, I mean to directly answer the question, I think that we're fully interested in moving
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
forward with, or willing to move forward with planning for facilities and capital campaigns, etc, if that's
something that the community would embrace. And then the other thing in terms of cost. Right now we
are looking at the average cost, just so you know of building a YMCA at $150 a square foot. So as you
look at, if you remove a pool, you add a gym, you add 6 meeting rooms, that is kind of the round number
that we're using in terms of how we would figure that so just so you know that.
Franks: Great, that's it.
Lash: Okay, thanks Rod. Dave.
Moes: I think a lot has been covered already. Sounds like a great opportunity. One thing that I think you
had mentioned earlier in one of the major program pieces that you're doing now is working for like
preschool youth sports and I think partnering with school during the summer programs. And maybe this
is something that would come through further discussions. From your prior history and even just starting
to get a feel for Chanhassen, you know if you looked at programs specifically, that of course would
eventually tie into facilities. What would possibly be the next program that would be like high on the
Y's list that might fit appropriately within a community like this?
Brian Hubbard: Well I guess the real answer would be that I haven't talked to staff enough to get a feel
for what the needs are. And they certainly have been working in the arena in recreation and social
service much longer than I have here to be able to identify those. So I don't want to cop out of the
question but ! think the answer would be, I don't know what that would be. I sense, although we've got
the new aquatics center, I sense a need for aquatics and swimming lesson types of programs as a need.
And 1 sense whatever that looks like, the area of youth development and specifically at the junior level
but as I've met with school people and city folks, that certainly seems like a nitch that is under served
right now. Those would be two examples.
Lash: Okay?
Moes: Thanks. Great opportunity.
Lash: Michael.
Howe: Thank you. I'm sorry I missed the first part of your presentation and I hope I don't ask anything
that you already covered. You're representing the entire of the YMCA of the metropolitan Minneapolis,
not just Ridgedale?
Brian Hubbard: Correct.
Howe: Okay. Is the YMCA a non-profit corporation?
Brian Hubbard: Yes.
Howe: Okay. Well I can say as a member, what I like about the Y, and you say it right here in this
brochure, is the YMCA will not deny people's participation in YMCA programs and services because of
the inability to pay. So we've talked to some other corporations which have been interested too and in
their own right they were pretty classy, but I think the Y's a little different as far as it's community
service and what they stand for. And I echo the sentiment of many members on this commission when
10
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
they said terribly exciting and fabulous. I think it's something we definitely should look into and keep
the lines open. Thank you for coming.
Lash: Okay. Is there anyone who has anything else they want to ask or add?
Karlovich: I just think there's a lot of sites still in the city of Chanhassen where you know the center can
fit in greatly. I know that we have 212 running through our community and there's going to be quite a bit
of development there and there's different opportunities where we could partner with MnDot and they
could just acquire an additional 10 acres for us. Or else, I don't know. We talk about Puite Homes at 41
and Highway 5, how we don't, that's not the entrance to our city but maybe a nice YMCA at that comer
but, I'm very excited and 1 would hope to see this discussion go farther and someday even have a YMCA
facility here and to provide those type of things and largely the indoor aquatics. You know Minnesota is,
there's two seasons. There's winter and there's the mosquito summer time but there is no real kind of
indoor swimming pool type activity here in our city, or you know relatively close by. Except for the
going to the Chaska Community Center and the thing that bothers me there is always going to there and
getting charged twice what the Chaska Community residents get the same services for so, I've said
enough.
Lash: Anyone else?
Manders: 1 would ask, is there such a thing as a YWCA?
Briau Hubbard: Yes. There is a YWCA and in the Twin Cities there are I believe 6 and the YM and the
YW of course started together but they are two very different organizations now. They are run, they are
completely autonomous of one another, and really have different focus. The YWCA is focused primarily
on women and children's issues. They do have health enhancement facilities and workout space. They
do offer a membership but in terms of their community service aspects of their job, their focus is on
wolnen issues and issues for children. Whereas a YM is really more focused on the community as a
whole, ~vhatever that looks like.
Lash: Okay, anyone else? Well 1'11 ask the question, what should be our next step?
Karlovich: We would make a motion to direct staff to follow up on it?
Moes: Make a motion to buy 10 acres.
Lash: Well, is it something we would need to send onto City Council first or is this something that we
can direct staff to at least continue conversations and that kind of thing. Jerry, why don't you advise us.
Ruegemer: I would probably say that would probably be the best approach at this point is to direct staff
to gather more feedback with Mr. Hubbard and the YMCA. 1 would hate to take up the City Council's
time on trivial matters at this point. I think we need some type of concrete information to present.
Lash: Susan is there, you're on the edge of your seat. Is there something you wanted to say?
Susan Marek: I just wanted to hear everything that's going on.
11
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: Oh okay. It looks like you're ready to spring up there for a minute. Okay. Well given that
suggestion from Jerry, is there someone who would like to make the motion of the direction we'd like
staff to take this?
Franks: I move that the commission direct the city staffto continue a dialogue with the Minneapolis
Metropolitan YMCA on a presence here in our community, whether that be through increased
programming or development ora facility. And to discuss the various options which might present
themselves and to bring that information back to the commission for review.
Lash: Is there a second to that motion?
Howe: Second.
Franks moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission direct the city staff to
continue a dialogue with the Minneapolis Metropolitan YMCA on a presence here in our
community, whether that be through increased programming or development of a facility. And to
discuss the various options which might present themselves and to bring that information back to
the commission for review. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Lash: Okay. Would anyone be interested in, I'll just throw this out, a work session to discuss just
amongst ourselves as far as particular things that we would have, we think that there are needs for or
interest in or to help provide staff maybe with more direction too.
Moes: 1 think it helps to prioritization on it.
Manders: My guess is that's what would come out of the staff recommendation when they come back is
to say we may need to formulate some further meetings, work sessions, whatever. Sub-committees. That
kind of thing. Because it...something you can handle in a single session.
Lash: Yeah, no but I would rather provide him, or them with more direction from us rather than them
starting with the whole big.
Franks: Could we suggest that we allow staff to do some of the initial work with the YMCA. Pull some
of the information together and then at their direction, if it looks like it's actually us to schedule a work
session to go over it and pull it all together in a way that we see fit and then as more ora presentation at
that point. Because I understand what you're saying. I agree. If this comes back to a formal meeting like
this, it is difficult to maintain that give and take dialogue about actually getting down and working out
some of the details based on the information we have.
Howe: For instance, along that line. I mean we talk about, you talked about bailfields. Sure, that'd be
great. We have a lot ofballfields. We have Bandimere. If we can shave 10 acres to 6 acres because we
don't need any ballfields. Not that we don't need them but things like that.
Lash: But I mean there's just so much. There's so much that we would need to throw out and hash over
and I think everyone kind of has particular things they're like to maybe see be incorporated into it and
prioritize some of that. Should we wait until staff comes back with some info and then?...but would that
be the information they could just provide to us the night if we had a special work session. They could
give us that information and then we'd be able to use that.
12
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Franks: That's what I'm suggesting.
Lash: Okay. So we're still going to direct him to get information but then maybe have an off night work
session to hear everything.
Karlovich: Just have a conversation with Todd and give him the direction and I'm confident he can run
with it.
Lash: Okay. So should we direct him to do that? Once he gets some information together, to call an off
night work session?
Franks: Are you proposing a friendly amendment to the motion?
Lash: Sure.
Franks: I'm fine with that.
Lash: Are you? Okay. Anyone else? So there's a friendly amendment. Do we have to have a vote on
that? The friendly amendment.
Karlovich: I'll second the friendly amendment.
Lash moved, Karlovich seconded an amendment to the previous motion to direct staff to call a
work session with the Park and Recreation Commission to discuss the information gathered
regarding the YMCA. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Lash: Thanks.
Brian Hubbard: Thank you. l'm very excited to look at what the possibilities be and appreciate the
dialogue and you've all got my phone number in that folder. If you have thoughts or ideas, please feel
fi'ee to give me a call.
Howe: Brian, do you work from Ridgedale or downtown?
Brian Hubbard: My office is Ridgedale but I have a share job and for this piece of it I work for our metro
of~ce.
Lash: Okay, thanks a lot Brian.
BANDIMERE COMMUNITY PARK ENTRANCE IMPROVEMENTS.
Lash: ! think we had the opportunity to see that in person. Is there anyone, Mike you were there right?
Were you there with us?
Howe: No. I went by there the other day though. I saw what they've done.
Lash: Is there anyone who has questions or comments regarding this before we.
13
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Ruegemer: 1 think Todd had intended this to be kind of an FYI update to the project. If you saw it first
hand, you'll know how the entrance of the park is tonight and how it temporarily sits with a temporary
barricades. You know the issues at hand with Bandimere. As you can see the options provided in the
packet, both what it will look like with the concrete curbing and median, and then also the sign package
included with that site. Basically it's, as you know, it's going to force traffic to head south a little bit
over the crest of the knoll and then it will then, we should have a better interpretation of decision making
when we pull into our site so that should certainly help and MnDot is I think patiently waiting to see if
the local results work first before they address the bigger issue with the road itself.
Kariovich: We've definitely been a witness an almost accident too so there.
Howe: Tonight you did?
Lash: Yes. Yeah...in the back ora pick-up. Unsecured.
Karlovich: Official demonstration of the need.
Lash: Jay, you and I both commented something on signage though that I was wondering if there wasn't
going to be, I'm not sure if little rectangles with the diagonal lines, is that supposed to be showing what
some kind of signage is supposed to be because if it is, I'm not aware of what those signs mean.
Ruege~mer: The ones that are kind of by the little bushes here?
Lash: Yeah, and then the one right out on 101.
Ruegemer: I think what that is, it's signifying just notification of the median.
Howe: Those things that stick up, the reflectors.
Lash: Oh, okay.
Howe: At night so you can see that.
Karlovich: I think our only question for the designer was, is there going to be any confusion to just
taking the left?
Ruegemer: Well that has been a concern at this point, and hopefully with concrete curbing and the
position of the concrete median, that should force people to, in a southerly motion to come in there.
Lash: But would it be out of line to have a sign that just says exit only or.
Berg: Do not enter.
Lash: Do not enter. I mean I could see that I would be one that would try to do that. Something that's,
okay is there a motion for that?
Ruegemer: I don't know if we need one.
Lash: Don't need one? Just FYI, okay.
14
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Ruegemer: ...and then it will be handled administratively to get done.
2001 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PROGRAM~ PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION.
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item.
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Lash: ...You know we may want to consider.
Howe: Moving it up a little bit.
Lash: Yep. And what did we have budgeted for that?
Howe: $20,000 in 03.
Lash: And our entire budget is $200,000 for next year so I'~n estimating we could probably go the 220
and it wouldn't be unreasonable for us to anticipate.
Berg: Is it needed Mike, do you think?
Howe: Honestly I don't spend a lot of time there during the day. From the people I've talked with in my
neighborhood, they do draw a lot of the other neighborhoods in the area. I believe it's needed from what
! hear. I haven't seen that first hand and I rarely, if ! go to a party or something, people who know, if
they know what I do, you know they... So I think there was a need and | don't think they're making it up.
Berg: Because it's rare we get this kind of pressure to move that quickly.
Howe: That's what I mean.
Lash: Actually it's not that quick. How long has that been in?
Howe: 5 years. 4 years anyway.
Lash: Well you have to figure it was in, how long ago did we put that trail through the gully? That's
been a couple years.
Berg: Just a couple years.
Lash: And it was in before that by at least a year or two so I'd guess 4 or 5 years.
Berg: 1 wasn't being sarcastic. It is rare that we get this many people getting this upset about it.
Howe: There's 142 homes there and you've got that the Oaks and you've got the neighborhood behind it
and you have across the street. There are a number of neighborhoods that play there.
Berg: I think because we've expanded to those other neighborhoods is justification enough.
15
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: Well if it's been 4 or 5 years, we've got it slated way out to 2003. That's 8 years from Phase I to
Phase II. That is a pretty long.
Berg: Was anything done with the referendum?
Franks: Is this the neighborhood park for the Oaks, Stone Creek and Trotters Ridge? Is that the
identified neighborhood park? For all three of those developments?
Howe: Well there's another one behind it too. Timberwood.
Lash: Timberwood doesn't have many...
Ruegemer: That's closer to the Rec Center.
Howe: More than the Oaks does. The Oaks is pretty.
Lash: But the one on the other side of 17 .... Is that what that's called? That's what I thought was
Trotters Ridge.
Howe: Yeah, that's the...
Lash: Trotters Ridge. I know this is the designated park. 1 didn't want that. I wanted on their own side
of the road but we didn't get it so. Does anybody have any other adjustments they'd like to discuss?
Howe: 2001 do you think for that?
Ruegemer: 2001, Stone Creek.
Lash: Yes.
Ruegemer: $20,000?
Lash: Yes.
Karlovich: Otherwise 1 thought we put a lot of time in this before.
Berg: I think down the line we might have to look at Meadow Green. I just got a real quick look down
there today and the equipment sort of looks like it's leaning. I think we might not be able to wait until
2003 for that one but I don't think we have to do it next year.
Lash: Where do we have that?
Berg:
Lash:
Berg:
2003.
Oh.
And that's not even Phase II. It's just replacing what's been there for.
16
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: 20 years.
Berg: 15-20 years. Darn close to 20 years.
Lash: What else do we have in 2002?
Ruegemer: The major bulk of it is the warming house for City Center. Do you want to move that up
into 2001 ?
Berg: No...
Lash: You know there's just so many large projects on line that we're like plunking one offa year.
There's about all we can do. Curry Farms.
Berg: We have to get that trail in.
Franks: 1 know at one point we talked about Curry Farms.
Ruegemer: The playground.
Franks: The playground equipment and it's the old style but it's still serviceable 1 guess.
Ruegemer: It's wood.
Franks: So waiting until 2004, that's going to be the oldest play equipment left in the city just about.
The other concern that ! have is something we might be able to do immediately. I know we discussed
changing the direction of that field and allowing the wetland to really just go back to wetland. Rotatiug
that.
Ruegemer: That's certainly a topic for discussion.
Franks: So I don't know what that would include. Re-grading. Moving of the backstop and then.
Ruegemer: We could do that in-house.
Karlovich: That's the sinking...that's where my daughter practices soccer. It's just terrible.
Franks: It's terrible.
Karlovich: 1 mean it's just very wet all the time.
Franks: I mean if we could just even do that this year in-house and show that something is being done
there you know and then we can tell people the rest is coming and really consider looking at our budget
again at the end of 2000 and seeing if we can move that up.
Lash: That playground, Curry Farms went in about the time I think I got on the commission. So that
playground equipment is not, ! mean that's a long time now but.
Franks: I think it's about a 15 year life on that was expected.
17
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: So I bet you 2004 is probably 15 years.
Franks: Yeah, right and that's ! think, because I remember the discussion. That's why we put it there.
We went out to what the expected life of that equipment. Jerry, I know like in Chan Hills they did some
kind of combination. They tried to salvage as much of the wood structure as possible and then added to
it with some new stuff to kind of diminish the cost. Is them any kind of short term fix like that we could
do to that equipment?
Ruegemer: We can certainly take a look at that. I mean that's like a band-aid type of, and we can
certainly try to make some changes to that to show that there is some type of progress down there. We
can take a look at that and present it to the commission.
Karlovich: I just wonder if that whole park needs to be re-designed at some point. You can't even get off
of the trail without getting wet feet. It's just you know, maybe build up some area and abandon the rest.
Franks: Well that's what we were thinking about with the.
Karlovich: Maybe a pond or something.
Berg: We'd have to have a community, we'd have to have a mailing to let them know.
Lash: Okay, anybody see anything else?
Manders: The things that I think about in terms of small items are trail connections that we're lacking
that aren't necessarily long distances. I don't know if say for example the connection between, I don't
know what is that Fox development off of Pleasant View coming back. Did that ever get?
Ruegemer: I don't think that's been resolved with the Kryslers. 1 don't know if that's been resolved yet.
Manders: Where there's a small connection point that we could hook to see together that are out there.
And that's one that comes to mind. I'm guessing there probably are others.
Howe: What's the status of Round House? Last I heard, weren't they doing another structural review
again?
Ruegemer: Yeah. There's been some issues with the landscape type of architect versus the structural
architect from the site. That has been basically resubmitted for different renderings. That information
should be available very soon. With the price estimate and all that information should be ready to go.
Howe: So we have $40,000 budgeted for this year so we haven't, is it going to start yet?
Ruegemer: Oh it's definitely going to, it's not starting yet but it's definitely going to happen in 2001.
Berg: Isn't that really $80,000? Didn't we have $40,000 from the referendum?
Ruegemer: Correct.
18
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Howe: One other thing, Stone Creek had a meeting last week and speaking of trails that Jim brought up.
There's a trail that runs from a spur off of Stone Creek to that Timberwood. There's a little, do you
know where I'm talking about there?
Ruegemer: Where the barricades are at?
Howe: Yes. Well apparently at night there's a lot of vehicle traffic. They're coming through there. Is
there anyway they can put posts there or something because some of the neighbors, the neighbors on that
spur just mentioned that. I've never seen it but.
Ruegemer: Or if we open it up?
Howe: I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
Ruegemer: I'll write it down.
Lash: Okay, anyone else? Okay, so you'll pass that onto Todd?
Ruegemer: I took notes on here.
Lash: So really would we need to make, do we need to make a motion to move Stone Creek up?
Ruegemer: 1 would probably think tbat'd be a good idea.
Lash: Okay. Can somebody make that motion?
Howe: I move that we move the $20,000 slated for Stone Creek Park in 2003 to 2001.
Lash: Okay, is there a second to that?
Berg: For Phase 1I.
Howe: For Phase 11.
Berg: Second.
Howe moved, Berg seconded to amend the 5 Year Park & Trail Acquisition and Development
Capital Improvement Program to move Phase II for Stone Creek Park from 2003 to 2001. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
OLD BUSINESS: MEMORIAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE.
Lash: Fred and I are designated for a couple of meetings I see this summer. Do you happen to know
where those would be Jerry? The Memorial Committee meeting.
Ruegemer: I do not know where those meetings are currently. We can get that information to you.
Lash: Okay. Will we get something in the mail closer to?
19
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Ruegemer: I would assume.
Lash: That would be good. Anybody have anything on that? Okay.
know be sure to get to Fred and 1.
SKATE PARK PHASE II ACQUISITION.
Public Present:
Name Address
If you have any suggestions or you
Tim Hughes 1780 Lake Lucy Lane, Excelsior 474-9158
Brad McKnight 770 West Village Road, #104 470-9698
Anyer Snetzinger 840 Pontiac Lane 470-4494
Matt H. 12738 Gordon Drive, Eden Prairie 941-2847
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item.
Lash: Okay, thanks Jerry. Are there any commissioners who have questions on this for Jerry? Mike?
Dave?
Moes: Yes. Actually two quick ones just for my benefit. What's a straight grind rail versus a kinked
grind rail?
Ruegemer: Maybe Mr. Hughes can explain that.
Moes: The other question I did have is, I was going through the for True Ride there was Phase Il, Layout
I, Option I. And then Phase 1I, Layout 1I, Option II. Which picture is the Phase II, Layout I1, Option II?
Was that in here? The reason I'm asking the question.
Ruegemer: It looks like certain components are kind of inixed in.
Moes: I'm not familiar with the terminology here either but like under Layout 1, Option I there's the mini
ramp, which isn't that one that goes back and forth? ...and then Phase II, Option Il I don't see that same
terminology so is that in there or is this half pike not in there?
Franks: Well they're recommending Option 111.
Moes: And that's this one? I was trying to understand the descriptions with the pictures.
Lash: Well that was your problem.
Moes: Well ! understand that. When I look at like Option I they've got.
Lash: Well this one says Option III. Is that what you're looking for? Which one is Option II?
Franks: No but in the narrative description.
20
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Moes: In the first one they've got the 24 foot long kinked grind rail and l'm not seeing that listed in
Layout I|, Option II.
Howe: Did you say Layout I1, Option III?
Moes: That's my question, is it?
Franks: What I noticed is that for this list of Option II is the same price that they're quoting from True
Ride but they're suggesting that's the price for Option II so that is a little confusing.
Moes: l'm just trying to understand the description with the pictures. And | was unable to make that
connection.
Berg: You got into it deeper than me so I congratulate you.
Moes: Well, I've never heard of an 18 foot wide piano before.
Lash: No, but did you see where the bid is for Option III?
Franks: Option Ill is way in the back. That's confusing.
Lash: Right before the 2 year warranty. Keep going. Keep going.
Moes: I can understand all those now. Thank you. We did have an expert out here. Okay.
Lash: Got it now Dave? You okay?
Moes: l'm as far as I'll get with this.
Lash: You're where the rest of us are now. Okay. Any other commissioner questions or comments?
Okay, anybody in the audience?
Tim Hughes: Hello, my name is Tim Hughes and I live at 1780 Lake Lucy Lane. ! got a chance to look
at all the bids over the past couple weeks when they came in, or actually the past week as they came in
and Mr. Hoffman and I kind of brainstormed I guess a little and I guess it was done to Option !I1 and
Ramp Tech's. l've done a little research as a skater, more than like on a professional point I've tried to
popped down notes on pluses and minuses based upon a skaters point of view. So first I know, I'm
basically going to bounce offa few things based on what Mr. Hoffman wrote up. First about the half
pipe. The transition on True Ride's new mini ramp versus their old mini ramp is too mellow. Basically
the transition is this part, like that.
Franks: I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
Tim Hughes: The transition on True Ride's mini ramp, the part that goes like this, it's too mellow. It's
almost like flat.
Lash: It's too what?
Tim Hughes: Mellow.
21
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: Mellow?
Tim Hughes: Like mellow yellow. That's I don't know, that's just how the industry says it.
Berg: Maybe too gradual?
Tim Hughes: Yes. Too flat. If that makes any sense. They did have another way. It was almost like a
vert, meaning like a wall once you reach the top and that was too tight so I think they're kind of in the
process of experimenting between the two. But I noticed when I tried out their new, the True mini ramp,
it was very difficult to pump, meaning bend my knees and get speed at the same time. And you know
with keeping my feet on the board at the same time, meaning I would have to push between the
transitions with my foot in order to keep my speed and it was the same with quite a few other riders that I
was with.
Lash: Why was that?
Tim Hughes: Because of the distance between the transitions on the mini. The two parts like this.
They're too far apart and it makes it kind of a challenge for riders to keep their speed back and forth.
Because if you haven't learned how to pump, the transition's really well. It's really easy to lose your
speed if your transitions are really far apart. 42 feet I think actual wall to wall and the transition I think is
like 31 or something like that because I think they measure it edge to edge, if that makes any sense. But
between the walls themselves I believe it was like 31 to 32 feet and that's phenomenally big. 1 mean
distance wise.
Howe: So you're saying smaller? You're saying that should be a shorter distance between?
Tim Hughes: Yeah. And that's why I was kind of, you know I was thinking about that more today you
know as I was looking at the one out in Hopkins. There's a mini there but it's 4 foot but the transitions
are the same distance apart but because it is a 4 foot, it helps get you more speed because you've got
more ramp to work with ride down, does that make sense? Okay.
Franks: So what you're saying is 42 feet is too far?
Tim Hughes: Yeah.
Howe: But 4 feet isn't.
Moes: It's 31 feet between the two.
Tim Hughes: Yeah, it's 31 and 42 like deck to deck to deck to deck. The one at my house is actually 21.
21 feet apart so that's a lot different than 31. And can you imagine, I know there's a lot of flat bed space
between that and which me personally didn't, I did not like because I don't like them really close together
so it's like a bowl but I like you know little flat bed and I've seen, to see the same with a lot of other
riders. Basically the object of the mini is not having to take your feet off the board while riding the mini
ramp. Keep your feet on the board and gain speed by bending your knees. Or riding the transition and
thrusting your body weight down the ramp as you ride. And my experience as a rider I have found with
both Big Daddy's and True Ride that the mini ramps have been both very challenging to ride.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Manders: Can I just ask a question? Are you referring to this type of thing here? This is your?
Tim Hughes: That's the mini ramp, yeah.
Manders: Okay.
Franks: A half pipe consists of the two mini ramps.
Tim Hughes: The two quarter pipes. So when I refer to mini ramp I refer to the piece that's flat a little
bit and goes up the sides. I know with Big Daddy's and True Ride's they've either been too steep or too
mellow. I went and rode, as I told you last meeting that I was at, that I went and actually tried out Ramp
Tech's ramp at Lake Owen, Wisconsin because I didn't want to just say something without trying it first.
l'd personally have to say it was a lot more fun to ride than my own and if it was one of the funnest speed
ramps I've ever ridden. 1 like the fact that the painted platform. Some of the guys were doing the board
sides and the coping and stuff and it.
Franks: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
Tim Hughes: The platforms are painted like on top in order to keep like free standing water from like
soaking in or something, and I noticed that it... Some of the guys were able to pull some of the stunts like
board slides and lift slides actually on the mini that you don't see a lot coming from riders, a lot easier.
Under these considerations I do have to say bigger is not necessarily better as far as length goes. Wider's
you know better for like the commercial size but lengthwise it seems to be a little challenging. Then
above the boxes, I know the 4 x 8 in my personal consideration is small. I know 3 x 6 or 2 x 4 is pretty
small. The boxes are just the square pieces that sit flat on the ground, if you read Ramp Tech's proposal.
! know they're on there but as far as layouts and everything, I know I've been asked quite a bit, you know
are we going to get boxes because a lot of skaters are expecting that in the first phase because that's just
like a normal option. You see that at a lot of skate parks. And down at Chaska they have boxes, just
square boxes. 4 x 8 and same with Maple Grove and ! think a few others. If you guys are really worried
about them getting stolen I'm willing to pay out of my own pocket for them to get anchored into the
ground because that's how bad ! want them. And I know it kind of seems kind of weird but it's, you
know it costs like 60 bucks to anchor them to the ground, which is really cheap. The huges box that's on
True Ride's third option. 1 went to Chaska today and I noticed it was, 1 mean it's down there already so
it's, that piece is already in the area so ! thought it'd be better if we focus on like trying to get different
things than other local parks to make sense for.
Franks: Which piece is already in Chaska?
Tim Hughes: The huges box that's on True Ride's third option. And I know, I was sitting there and
asked a few riders, you know who likes this box. Who doesn't and a few of them raised their hands
saying you know we don't like it and there was like one rollerblader in the city that liked it because the
can ride really fast and launch off it. Very similar to a piece we have up there already but it's just a lot
smaller. Then regarding the kinked rail. I called Ramp Tech before I came up here and True Ride and
asked what the price different is between the kink and the flat, and Ramp Tech said they could like
substitute the kink rail if we wanted it and that wouldn't be a problem. So I know some riders like the
kink rail with 2 foot tall you know where you're starting and you do a board slide or something like that.
It's very tall for a lot of riders. It's hard to launch your board off that high. A lot of kids I know, like at
Chaska and Maple Grove and Shoreview police themselves so I think if somebody's getting into mischief
as far as like even kidding around, like taking the stuff, I know a lot of kids would probably shut them up.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
And I know some kids get annoyed by it but. Overall my personal response, and some of the responses
I've gotten from kids is that the more and more like we ride True Ride equipment is less myself, I know
myself, not like it. I just am getting to the point where you know I'm learning all the specifications and
you know where things can be changed and I've really been taking notice to detail. I was taking notes
down in Chaska. I noticed that each, most every sheet of the surface was not set flush against each other
where they should be. I checked today for vapor barriers that they place between the top sheet and the
plywood underneath and the vapor barrier was actually quite wet and some of the sheets were soaked
underneath so, I mean it could be a problem if there wasn't a big notice to detail... Again, that's about all
I really had. But my recommendation as a skater, I'd like to see, and I sense Mr. Hoffman has been kind
of a diehard on this, I'd like to see Ramp Tech build the stuff but if we go with True Ride, which I don't
really want to see happen, but if we did, I'd like to work with Dave Benson up there on trying to get the
transition changed. Just the transition itself. Not the flatbed. I'm not sure about the flatbed or what not.
But the transition itself because it is so mellow and it's hard to pump on the transition itself, meaning the
ramp. So it's easy to lose your speed there and if there is a lot of flatbed, that is also another way to lose
speed if you're not...
Karlovich: Can I ask a question? Essentially what you're saying is you're coming down and you're just,
you're slowing down instead of going zoom, zoom, zoom?
Tim Hughes: Well yeah. The transition when you drop in and you hit the other side. When you go back
into the ramp after doing your trick or whatever. Even if you're just turning around. You have to pump
the transition, meaning you have to bend your knees and thrust your body weight into it. If you have a
mellow transition, you can't really thrust your body weight into it because there's, I mean it's too flat.
You don't get a lot of stuff to work with. If it's too steep you don't have enough time to prepare to pump
yourself. You actually just go down and then it's hard to get up the other side because it's steepness, if
that makes sense. I tried to explain that.
Manders: Is this an issue with, depending on what your skill level is?
Tim Hughes: It can be. I know a lot of riders.
Manders: So like amateur amateur, it's a big problem but if you're normal you're okay but if you're
really good it's a drag or how does this work?
Tim Hughes: Well if you're pro you pretty much can ride everything. Make everything work, but for
beginner I can see this is more of a challenge. Challenging ramp if it was built by True Ride. So that's
why ! say again, I'm more concerned about the transition than I am the actual distance apart. But I was
surprised by the numbers. The lady gave me an estimate over the phone on how far it was between the
banks. She's like oh, I think it's like 31 feet or something between bank to bank. You know it's like
wow. That's a lot of flat bottom space between the two ramps.
Hoffman: When I scale it I get about 23 to 24 feet.
Tim Hughes: Between ramps?
Hoffinan: Yeah. So it's not nearly the difference that you've been talking about.
Howe: You haven't had a problem with any of the True Ride equipment out there now have we? Is it
wearing okay?
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Hoffman: Yes.
Howe: It seems to be.
Moes: I was going to say what, we keep talking the transition now. What comparison can you make
with the equipment that's out there today and their transition versus mellow, steep or just right?
Tim Hughes: If you look at a quarter pipe it's just, do you know which one the quarter pipe is out there?
Moes: If I'm looking at it, it's on the left or tile right? Okay, on the left. Okay.
Tim Hughes: That one's kind of the transition on that can be used as mini, if you had two quarter pipes
against each other.
Moes: Is that considered mellow? Steep?
Tim Hughes: I'm still not sure. I don't ride it as often of that aspect, but they don't use the same. I
know True Ride doesn't use the same template, ! think that's what they call it, for the half pike as they do
for like quarter pipe because where it meets the ground or something is different. But I know like if
you.., spine that transition is pretty mellow. And that's actually very similar to the transition on the half
pipe.
Moes: And the spine is tile one in the middle?
Tim Hughes: Yeah. The one that goes like...
Berg: You've done an incredible amount of homework with this traveling around tile Midwest. Are you
doing this just because you have such an interest?
Ti~n Hughes: Well I'll be honest with you, about a year ago 1 was thinking about actually becoming like
a rep for vendors as a hobby when I get older and 1 think this is good base work. But I really seriously
don't think that's going to happen because I talked to Dave Benson about that but he's, you know he's
still thinking about expanding his company in that area and talked to Ramp Tech too and you know,
that's a professional aspect but I think this is my training grounds to learn how to do that. If that makes
any sense. So I think it's more something l'm trying to work with myself on to train myself to make a
career, if that makes any sense.
Hoffman: Tim, would you just talk about your conversations with each of those companies.
Tim Hughes: This afternoon or?
Hoffman: No, over time. About your relationship or.
Tim Hughes: Dave Benson, let's see I talked to 3 years ago and was way totally into the skate scene you
know as far as ramps go and everything and I don't know. I asked if he could send me a bid for like
Shorewood, you know from a half pipe and he wrote me up a bid but basically he just laid out some stuff
and sent it to me. Talked to True Ride and Big Daddy and those are other vendors at the same time and I
was in contact with actually Ramp Tech up until like about a year ago. Then I talked to I think his name
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
is, 1 talked to a guy by the name of Ryan at Ramp Tech and he did the same thing. But I had more hopes
and dreams as far as a park goes thinking stuff would be a lot cheaper. So I faxed him like a layout I
thought would be really cool for the city of Chanhassen and you faxed me back and that's when it was
like $90,000. I said whoa. I was surprised and I was like, that was like a year ago so I was thinking
wow, I've got to learn a lot more so Dave Benson, he showed me a list of their prices. As a matter of fact
showed me a list of their prices and I tried to get as much experience as I could on both in both
companies as I could because I think they are to the closest to Minnesota. I think Big Daddy's in
Colorado but their stuff's like I don't know how you use it. Just junky. It's not like fun stuff to ride. It's
mainly made to be set up and then taken down like after skate demos for like professional skate teams
and what not. They're not geared towards city parks. I was in connection with Spohn Ramps about 6
months ago and tried to learn as much about their, or Spohn Ramps 3 months ago. Tried to learn as much
about that company as I could and I'm still trying to get word back from them. Finding out if there's any
local parks to here. Both companies have been extremely helpful. I know Ramp Tech's got some
positions available up in Virginia, I think that's where they're located but I don't think my parents would
be too cool about me moving but.
Franks: Do you have any current arrangements with any of these vendors?
Tim Hughes: No. I wish I did but no. ! have no contracts. No private agreements. No financial. I wish
I had some financial motivation because l'm 17 and money's really cool when you're 17 but.
Karlevich: I have a question for staff about the bidding process. I picture you have a set of
specifications and you send those out for bid but it seems like we've got different specs coming back or
how is, I'm just wondering how.
Hoffman: Bidding process is similar to what we've done with playgrounds. Anytime you're under
$25,000 you don't need to go through a public bidding process and soon that will be $50,000. And so,
instead of developing a spec we informed them of the budget, $15,000 and we would like to see
proposals based on needs. In the solicitation letters, based on some parameters that we had...and the
request for proposals, City of Chanhassen Skate Park Phase II. We asked them to submit a cover letter,
equipment specs, specifications, plan sheet and warranty information for Phase II valued of $15,000
including tax, delivery, installation. And then it goes on to list the preferred equipment and the height
and the other specifications. And so then you compare these proposals that you get and it's really a
contest. Who will provide the best product at the price point. And then there is some arbitrary issues
that go into the decision. One thing that is of issue, which I don't think has been talked about, is the fact
that if you look at the cash value of the equipment on Ramp Tech versus the cash value of the equipment
in True Ride, and it's about $8,500 versus probably some $13,000 and so Ramp Tech coming from
Virginia includes $6,500 in freight and installation. And if you think about that in theory, that's $6,500
that you're not getting product versus the $13,000 of product and $1,500 in delivery. The equipment is a
little bit lighter. I do have a sincere concern about these 4 x 8 fun boxes that would be placed out on
there. That they would be moved around and we, as the commission knows, we have enough issues
already over there to deal with and we don't need additional issues so both proposals are very similar.
And I think you just get a little bit more for your money but these issues of, is it skateable? And again, I
appreciate Tim's input in that area. He's been working with me and the commission all the way along
but I have to believe that these people make ramps which are skateable or they're going to hear about it
right quick and they're going to make some changes. I could not get a hold of Dave Benson as he's
talking to Tim. He's in the Virgin Islands I believe putting in a system so I'll make sure to check on that.
If the commission would like to go that route and verify whether or not Tim's issues are something that
Dave agrees with and would be willing to modify.
26
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: Okay, thanks Todd. Anyone else with a question or a comment for Todd? Okay.
Howe: I don't have a problem, Tim you've been kind of the unofficial advisor since day one and we
appreciate your homework. I don't have a problem making some small changes if other people agree
with that but I'm pretty much sold on True Ride. I mean it's a good job for them. We know the shipment
and freight is a big issue. They're local. |'ve been impressed with them so far.
Lash: Okay. So given that, how about a motion?
Karlovich: I'll make a motion to direct staff to go ahead with the True Ride proposal, Option III at a cost
of $14,996.66 or close to there. It looks like the numbers might be a little bit different. And to also
direct staff to work with our speaker here to, and also with True Ride to see if there's any technical
changes that will make the experience more skateable and better.
Lash: Okay, is there a second to that?
Franks: Second.
Lash moved, Franks seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission to accept True Ride
Option III at a cost of $14,996.66 for Phase II of the Skate Park acquisition and to direct staff to
work with True Ride regarding any technical changes that may be necessary. All voted in favor
and the motion carried unanimously.
Howe: Todd, would it be hard to anchor those fun boxes? Do you think that's something you'd want to
do?
Hoffman: You could do it. We'd...and anchor them down.
Franks: Would it be like attempting to anchor waste collection binds?
Hoffinan: You could put a big enough effort into it to make it permanent but...
Berg: Tim 1 wish all our citizens got as involved in issues that they had a passion for.
Lash: Thanks Tim. Okay, we'll move on to our recreation program reports.
RECREATION PROGRAMS:
LAKE ANN PARK.
Ruegemer: Thank you Jan and rest of the commissioners. Just a basic kind of brief update on Lake Ann,
including going with concessions now for a while. Since Memorial weekend. As you know we've had
kind of cool temperatures and rain in June so it's been somewhat slow. We're approximately about
$1,500 to $2,000 behind last year's actual numbers. We did have a, it has been getting warmer as of late
so, but with the beach being closed, we've had just minimal staff and minimal sales out there in the last 4
or 5 days. But we will be hopping up our efforts and getting ready for the 4th of July. We expect a very
big couple days, the 3rd and the 4th down there so it looks like there's going to be warm temperatures and
27
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
sunshine the way it looks so we've ordered accordingly from our vendors to keep up with demand. And
we're brain storming with concession staff to streamline and increase our product sales for the weekends
so it's going to be busy out there. So the slush puppies again. Those are great. Last year a big seller.
High profit margin too so it's kind ora fun thing. We have two different sizes down there so if you don't
want a real big headache, you go for the 9 ounce. If you want the big headache...you go for a big one so,
but those have been a popular item. Picnic phone calls have just been crazy. Really slow and then boom.
They hit. It's getting nice out again and people are really starting to kind of think about it so for the most
part we have pretty much the pavilion is booked on the weekends all summer now so I'm sure we'll have,
and you know over $9,000 gained in revenues and anywhere from $100 to $120 approximately a
reservation so those are coming in daily. Cory being our intern has been helping out with those phone
calls and it's been helping me out a great deal to concentrate on other duties at hand so. The beach
opened up June l0th and will close on August 27th. Again the commission reviewed the contract back in
January-February timeframe so Minnetonka is in place again providing that service for the city again.
Other than that, let's just hope, cross our fingers for warm weather and actually can start really making
up some lost revenues for June so. The 4th of July, June is typically a little slower with school getting out
and with the temperatures we've had and we've really, they kick it into high gear 4th of July so let's keep
our fingers crossed again that we'll have a good year again. August was good too so.
Lash: Can I ask you a quick question? What is the fee for the pavilion at Lake Ann?
Ruegemer: For resident, $100. And they fluctuate then by non-resident, Chan business, non-business.
Lash: Thank you. Anybody else with questions? Thanks Jerry.
4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION.
Ruegemer: Tracy's been working hard on that. All the activities are, I'm going to pass out. Did you get
a brochure with your packet?
Lash: No.
Ruegemer: I'll just hand out another one FYI for you. All the events are listed in there. Tracy's added
some nice events this year for that. The 3'd is going to be anchored by...again which is going to be great.
I've heard they've mastered...
Franks: You know that was the one in the movie.
Ruegemer: Yeah, Wayne's World...l can't remember the name of it but the.
Franks: Bohemian Rhapsody.
Ruegemer: There you go. They've mastered that song and so it's going to be a great show again this
year. Tracy has added some food vendors for that and chances are...
Karlovich: There was, I wanted to let you know there were Dippin Dots at the Excelsior Art Fair.
Lash: I know. I told her, they have at the Excelsior Art Fair.
Karlovich: My kids enjoyed them.
28
Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: We need to get those. I know they have them at Valley Fair.
Hoffman: Summer job Jan.
Ruegemer: Sounds like the trade fair has higher numbers this year. We're up to 40 businesses are going
to be involved in that this year so that should be great. And then, I'm going to work you for a volunteer
list so I'll pass it around. You can fill your name in the appropriate spot... We have our t-shirts here for
you.
Lash: How about the carnival games? Have we got plenty of carnival games? Is that CAA or PTA or
who's.
Hoffman: City of Chanhassen employees.
Ruegemer: Yeah. I mean Tracy's...she's had some different ones and that's something certainly in the
area.
Lash: It see~ns like there used to be, either there used to be more or.
Hoffman: Less people.
Lash: Less people what?
Hoffinan: Stone number of games.
Lash: There is the same number of games?
Hoffman: Oh yeah. I think so, isn't there Jerry? Total of about 5 or 6 games for the whole.
Ruege~ner: We've added some different ones. The basketball and...
Lash: Okay .... shirts. Who crone up with the design?
Ruegemer: Deb Kind and Tracy.
Franks: You know in regards to the shirts, has it been discussed whether it's cost effective to print up
solne child size shirts?
Lash: You do and it wasn't, was it?
Ruegemer: I believe Tracy did do mediums this year for that.
Franks: She did? Okay. Because when I was selling shirts last year it was just constant. You know
have you got kid sizes? Do you have kid sizes? Do you have kid sizes?
Lash: Well how about even just getting some smalls?
Franks: Or even if we had smalls and then people were just walking away.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Lash: I think we used to get kid ones and then we got burnt with just tons of kids ones years ago...
Hoffman: We would like to do as many games as we could. It's just a limiting factor of finding bodies
and equipment and space.
Lash: You mean to run the games?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Lash: You can't get like the PTO or what is it called? Is it PTO?
Ruegemer: Yeah.
Lash: They're not interested or the snowmobile club or CAA? None of those people?
Ruegemer: I mean it's certainly...
Hoffman: We have sons and daughters and city employees and city employees.
Ruegemer: Children of park and rec commissioners...
Lash: Okay, well I'm going to move on while you circulate that thing. Anything else that we need to
know about for the 4th? Anybody with questions? Okay. We've got to still keep working on that Dippin
Dots.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
Lash: So here, somebody had asked last time about a little update on the child care things. You get kind
ora ballpark idea here of where we're heading with that. I forget who was asking.
Berg: Dave was.
Moes: Oh I may have, yes.
Lash: Okay, so there's some info.
SENIOR CENTER.
Lash:
Berg:
boy.
Hoffman: Did you read it?
Berg: Yeah, I did.
Hoffman: We'll let you know how successful it is.
So on the Senior Center, we've got a lot of fun stuffgoing on there it looks like.
Except why in the name of all that's holy would you plan a trip to Austin, Minnesota? Boy oh
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Berg: I have relatives in Austin. I can't imagine why you'd pay money to go down there.
Hoffman: Entertainment by the 1999 Miss Austin. Something we couldn't offer here in Chanhassen.
Berg: You don't even get to go to the company.
Lash: Yeah you do, don't you? Doesn't it say?
Berg: It doesn't say.
Lash: Hormel Museum.
Berg:
Lash:
Berg:
It's Hormel.
What?
You can tell the natives because it's Hormel. That's how it's supposed to be pronounced. It's not
Hormel. Hormel. The family does.
Manders: Hormel's in Mankato...
PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
Hoffinan: The most notable thing of park and trail maintenance is that we have 15 seasonal employees
that these people manage on a daily basis. That's a big job so if you think about it, tbat's 22 employees
that go to work every morning for park maintenance.
Berg: That's a lot of grass.
Hoffinan: Grass, trees, shrubs, boulevards. The boulevards are really what's taking it's toll. We're
going to be mapping some work loading in those boulevards. As the city adds more and more
boulevards, we're taking care of those and at some point they're going to equal the amount of care that
our park system has. Boulevards are big. Audubon. Powers. Lake Drive. Coulter. Kerber. Lots of
boulevard care.
Franks: Todd, just one thing about the trail maintenance. I was on the Lake Susan trail the other day and
some of those oak tree branches that hang out over the trail are dead. And there's no leaves or live
branches on them at all, and they're hanging completely.
Ruegemer: By the beach area?
Franks: Down from the beach. So in that wooded trail section. West and south. And I just would hate
to, I think if you could have the tree person take a look at them to see if they pose any kind of risk.
Hoffinan: We'll take care of them. Yep. We've had two oak trees go down on trails this year. That one
right there, by that neighborhood and then one over at Rice Marsh Lake.
Lash: Well it looked, when I was walking on the Greenwood Shores trail, it looks like a very big tree.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Hoffman: Yeah, they cut all the dead oaks.
Lash: Did they? No, no, no. Just recent, after that. Just like a week or two ago that was right up against
the lake so I don't know if the lake level came up high and then softens up too much.
Hoffman: Near the fishing pier?
Lash: Yeah.
Hoffman: Yeah, it's been there. They tipped it back up. It falls back over so they're going to take it
down.
Lash: Take it out, yeah.
Franks: Another maintenance issue, and I don't know if anything can be done about this at all. We were
down at the Lake Ann beach the other day and the goose droppings were a pretty major problem.
Hoffman: Talked with the lifeguards Friday morning about it. Dale, we've agreed to purchase some
rakes. Dale has purchased those rakes and they will be raking that in the morning and removing that.
Shoveling it up and putting it into buckets. Put it in the trash so it gets the majority of it out of the beach
and then a park maintenance crew will also start dragging it with a time rake behind a tractor to mix that
sand as well. But we're just prefer to get as much of it out of there before we do that. And that's
something the lifeguards have not done in the past and so this will help. We've also talked about the
geese come and visit every morning. We talked about, they're making these new clothesline like
retractable goose fences and we may experiment with that just to keep them off there altogether.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
SKATE PARK SITE IMPROVEMENTS.
Hoffinan: You all saw it this evening. It seems to be welcome by the school, the fire department. The
parents like it. We're going to do some restoration work on that berm and get some more seeding in
there because we took away the majority of the seeding that they use on that berm.
Lash: Are you thinking about chaining a bench over by the street too?
Hoffman: Yeah, we'll do that too. Or a permanent installation. The problem with that boulevard is
there's about 45 different utilities through there between here and the fire station so it's difficult in
putting anything permanent in but.
LIONS FIELD~ LAKE ANN PARK.
Lash: Then we got to see the Lions Field tonight at Lake Ann. That turned out great. That trail is great.
It's got a big crack in it though already.
Hoffman: Yep. Settlements and we'll just let it settle and then we'll patch it and let it settle out.
CITY CODE AMENDMENT~ ANIMALS IN PARKS.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Hoffman: This amendment is based offofa conversation with a variety of individuals and working with
Dave Potts. Dave Potts is the Sargeant with the Carver County deputies who is assigned to Chanhassen
and works similar to a department head. Comes to all of our meetings and responds back to the Sheriff's
Department on issues. He also agreed that there should be some clarification in the area of where dogs
are allowed and where they are not allowed. The gray area is the fact that the ordinance to date states
that dogs are not allowed in parks period. And over the years we have adopted this unwritten rule that
well people should be allowed to walk their dogs on boulevards, on the city trail systems and then we
have printed officially that you can walk your dogs on public trails through parks. This was of concern to
the public safety officials because then it leaves them without the ability to enforce these ordinances in a
reasonable manner. So they asked for clarification. Working with the attorney's office, the clarification
comes in the area of paragraph B. Walking leashed dogs is allowed on city trails and streets, except in
public beach areas. The person having control of the dog shall immediately remove any feces left by the
dog. The person in control of the dog must have in their possession equipment for picking up and
removing the feces so the pooper scooper law portion of this is an additional item which people have
been asking for. If you think that is reasonable you can request that that be included. If you do not think
that is reasonable, that can be left off..., shall be permitted to take any animal, including but not limited
to leashed dogs. Or dogs and cats in parks so. There's the clarification. The best that we could explain
it. I'll answer questions of commissioners. Take your comments and look for a recommendation to the
City Council.
Lash: Anybody have a question or comment on that? Jay.
Karlovich: I just think the last sentence in paragraph B should be deleted. I mean is somebody really
going to be busted or cited if they don't have a pooper scooper on their hand? I mean I don't know. And
what is the equipment that.
Hoffman: Plastic bag. Yeah, the Minneapolis cops do it all the time. You've got to have a plastic bag.
Karlovich: Wow. First of all 1'11 say personally I think dogs should be in parks but I am part of the
minority and l'm going to be able to sway that but I just, 1 don't know. When I'm walking my dog I
probably won't have, 1 might not have a plastic bag or something, l don't know. I just think that's just
pushing it a little bit too far but that's my personal opinion.
Hoffinan: An aversion to picking up dog.
Karlovich: No, I don't have an aversion to picking it up. 1 don't know.
Berg: Well it's redundant. I mean the sentence before is you have to remove it immediately so why do
you have to have something visible?
Hoffinan: Just more clarification.
Lash: Even if your dog doesn't poop, they could bust you for not having a plastic bag on you?
Berg: Yeah, and that seems really silly to me.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Franks: Well they'll say, I think your dog just defecated on the trail. No, that's not my dog so I don't
need to pick anything up you know and well then it's like back and forth, ls that your dog's do do or
somebody else's? So they're making...
Howe: Well I'm a dog owner and I think from what I've seen on the trails by my house, people just
abuse this all the time so I have no problem with, I carry a bag. I mean it's not that hard. I run with a bad
in case something happens. I think you've got to crack down on this kind of thing. I agree with it.
Lash: You run with a bag all the time?
Howe: I tie it to the leash.
Lash: Oh with the dog. I.just thought you meant.
Hoffman: This is a city wide deal. It's not the pooper scooper part of this is outside of the walking your
dog and as long as you're taking a look at the ordinance.
Lash: I have a dog and I hate to pick up after it but I don't have a problem because it does get pretty
gross. Along the trails.
Berg: And I know I appreciate people when they are picking it up.
Manders: I have no problem supporting this.
Moes: 1 think it reads fine.
Lash: Okay, so do you need something from us?
Hoffman: Recommendation to the City Council.
Lash: Okay. Who would like to make.
Manders: I move that this recommendation be accepted.
Lash: Is there a second?
Howe: Second.
Manders moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the
City Council approve the ordinance amending Chapter 14 of the Chanhassen City Code
concerning animals in parks. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Franks: Chair, ill could just make one comment in addition to this. I am also concerned that dog owners
in this city have someplace to recreate their animals off leash. And what I would like to do is, if the
commission agrees, is to direct staff to see if they can identify any place in the city where we could have
the designated off leash area for their dog.
Lash: Doesn't Minnewashta have one? I was thinking they did.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Hoffman: No. We've talked about this in the past and just broad overview. I cannot identify a location
in a city park. The one I thought about is in Lake Susan to the west of the ballfieid on the lakeshore
there. This little pond which will be a very nice place for people to swim their dogs. It's small. It's
adjacent to other facilities but it's a possible location. Marty Walsh of Minnewashta, Carver County
Parks at Lake Minnewashta would like to include it in the new master plan for the park. They're very
popular and metro wide these have been going in regional park systems and so it's appropriate that
Carver County continue to look at it. If those commissioners will direct me on this, send Marty a letter
on your behalf asking him to again pay some attention to that. And that, you know I'll report back as
well if there's any other locations that we are really land poor when you think about it. We are maxed
out. You know we've talked about it. Disc golf is very, very popular. It's similar to what's going on
here with the skate park and we couldn't put one anywhere. We don't have a location for this little disc
golf thing for the teenagers so. Eden Prairie has one. It takes about 3 or 4 acres.
Karlovich: Are the dogs allowed at Minnewashta?
Hoffman: No. No. They've written a hundred citations here this past, they really cracked down at Lake
Minnewashta. Right now they're allowed on leash on certain trails but people have them off leash and
there's a lot of issues out there so.
Franks: This wouldn't give Herman Field a new purpose in life?
Hoffman: Oh boy. It would never happen. You need some space you know because you've got dogs
interacting.
Lash: Well and it can't be something that's got a street around all sides.
Hoffinan: These are fenced. These are fenced.
Franks: Right, they're fenced in. But I mean there's no, if the dogs are never allowed in the parks or on
any of the fields, there's no place to do any training.
Hoffman: Yeah, people do it all the time at the Lake Susan access. All the time.
Franks: Right, right. And that's what I'm thinking. It really works out pretty well there. At the far end
of that field.
Hoffman: They train dogs in the soccer field at Lake Ann. They train dogs in the soccer field at
Bandimere. People do it. I talk to people when I see them. The Sheriff's pay little attention to it
currently unless there's any.
Lash: Well it kind of depends a little bit, not that I'm inclined to encourage people to break the law or
anything. But if it's in the middle in the winter and you take your dog out in some park and play catch, 1
mean who's going to care that much? It's I think where people, where we need to really clamp down is
ballgame nights and having your dog tied to the fence and having them run around in the ballfields when
everybody's using them. But it's way different if it's the time of year I think when really nobody else is
out there who really would care.
Hoffman: I get a lot of calls on dogs. They're, and mostly they're complaints. But then there's also
people who would like to see them in parks. They are a distraction. Mainly a distraction for these
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
activities that you have going on, and then there's also the issue of, they're not following the rules.
They're a distraction and they leave behind things that are unpleasant when people don't pick up after
them so.
Berg: Well if you have a lot of little kids around, if you don't know the strange dog, you don't know the
strange dog. I mean that can be a concern for parents too.
Lash: Okay. Anything else?
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS:
Howe: You saw the lonely pictures on the back of your... Jerry's done a great job. His committee is
cranking out, we've got preliminary shirts. We have tie in's now, we're trying to get the Vikings, KFAN.
We're moving along there. Making some headway.
Lash: KARE 1 l?
Howe: KARE 11. They're still, haven't heard from those guys in a while but yeah, that's still open. I
wouldn't say we're dead yet so things are progressing and again, Jerry's done a great job and the people
over at AmericInn are fantastic.
Lash: Saw the little thing in the paper so they're already starting.
Howe: Yeah, they're going to give us a couple free advertisements. They're going to start to a story, is it
a story once a month now from now til September?
Ruegemer: Special interest story on you know, one idea was with Tony Schiller on the world class
Triathlete here in town. We talked to Tony about getting involved in the race. He's been invited to some
of the committee meetings and it looks like his schedule is open that weekend so it looks like he will
participate. We're really trying to get that angle in it. Trying to give it some credibility to give it kind of
a fun spin.
Berg: That's so classy flying her out here with her two kids. That is such a nice touch.
Ruegemer: Thank Earl Billkarth from Travel Advisors who picked up the tab on that. Been very, very
generous.
Howe: The donations are incredible. People come to us. The community and say what can we give
you? We'll buy the shirts. We'll buy the tent. We'll pay for the port-a-potties. It's just, they're giving
us a mountain bike at their cost, this new bike shop.
Lash: Is that the prize? Is there prizes?
Howe: That's the grand prize. That's anybody who enters, if we pull your number can win this
mountain bike. So yes, there are some nice prizes, including restaurant. The hotel accommodations for
the actual contestants who want to run. But you can still win a bike.
Berg: Define run?
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Ruegemer:
Lash:
Berg:
Lash:
Berg:
You can walk it.
Well that's the thing. Some people get...
Can we start at the halfway point if we promise not to take a prize?
Fred and I want to start about an hour and half.
I always wanted to be there when somebody else came across the line.
Just once.
Manders: Has there been a decision as to where in Lake Ann this starts?
Ruegemer: It will start right down.
Manders: By the beach?
Ruegemer: Close to the turn around area. That's about the start of the race and starting at that point and
you end tip at the Americlnn front door is practically 3.1 miles so.
Lash: Is that it for you Mike?
Howe: That's my report.
Lash: David, do you have anything?
Moes: Nothing.
Lash: Rod?
Berg: I do.
Lash: You do?
Berg: Yeah. The Library Commission Task Force inet last night for the first time. We're talking about
philosophy of what the new library should look like. And ultimately what it would cost and how much
we should ask for in the referendum. There's a public meeting that I'm encouraging all of you to coine to
next Wednesday at 7:00 1 believe right here, to get public input into what they'd like to see in their
library and we're encouraging everybody and their family and friends to show up so they get some real
clear ideas for vision.
Manders: See it and where do to see it?
Berg: A real preliminary at this point. It's not like how many tables do you want? But what do you
envision using a library for and what would you like...
Manders: Would it be like the old Pauly's site or?
Berg: No. They're talking new add on this direction evidently. Keeping it, right now they'd like to see
it have an identity with City Hall but they're talking, he had mentioned last night that it's big. Good size.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
He's talking it would be about the size of the old Ridgedale library before they did their renovation so
like a collection of ultimately of I00,000 books. And again, they want some ideas on where to go
technically and that sort of thing so come next Wednesday.
Hoffman: Some members of the Chamber talked about that we need to make sure that this does not
remove this area from being able to still host festivals in the downtown area so they physical layout, had
that been considered at the City Center Commons and the Mayor responded that they're looking at that as
part of it.
Berg: That was my concern. I made a note to ask you about too. We don't want to lose a lot of park
space or available land here for this.
Hoffman: It's going to have a dramatic impact on it and there's no doubt it will limit the ability to host
certain events.
Karlovich: Maybe we should just put it where the bowling alley is.
Hoffman: There's been no location discussed. My concern is we're on a fast track schedule. You know
xve're what, a couple months away from the vote so.
Berg: September's the vote. September 12th.
Hoffinan: People are going to need to know a long time before that so.
Lash: Okay, are you finished?
Berg: That's it.
Lash: Jay, do you have anything?
Karlovich: No.
Lash: Jim, do you have any committee things?
Manders: No.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Lash: I had one quick thing on the mosquito control. You know as some of us will recall, this was a
major issue quite a few years ago. So is this still in line with that decision?
Hoffman: Yes. They may not be communicating. I had a call from a citizen today that believes they
were spraying adultricides in the park. We have not talked in person. And if that's the case, I'll contact
them.
Lash: Okay, anyone else have anything? Fred, did you want to...
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Berg: Yes I did. I'm waiting for Ron to get done with his bike ride and we're going to get together
again.
Lash: Okay. And then on the Round House drawing, what's?
Hoffman: This was selected from about 8 concepts as a reasonable design to move forward with. If you
agree with that, we will finalize that and get the plans and specifications out on the street.
Lash: You wouldn't want to have I suppose any more windows?
Hoffman: The openings that are there are the openings that we're working with because it's the
structure. The budget is so limited if we start making dramatic changes. We thought about moving the
door to the other side, closer to the skating rink and we're just going to drive this project right through
the ceiling. The concept here is to let some light in during the daytime and let some light show out in the
evenings. Through those top windows, around the perimeter. The other schematics changed the
character of the building to a larger degree, which we really didn't feel comfortable with.
Lash: Are those little windows all the way around the top?
Hoffinan: Yes.
Lash: Oh, 1 didn't know that. Okay. That's kind of what I had in mind, was just more up there.
Berg: And it's all open on the inside?
[toffinan: Open on the inside. They're waiting for it to be done.
Lash: What are those two lines? Is that some kind ora support thing?
Hoffinan: Cables for... Did you notice the e-mail from Mary Rumble?
Lash: Yeah. We included in the 2001. We upped the, because we've had more than.
Hoffman: And they're going to be coming back.
Lash: Yeah. We've had several requests for that particular site so.
Hoffman: They're putting together a presentation and so 1 would expect it might be the July meeting.
Lash: So maybe that's something that can be communicated back to them but then also it'd certainly be
nice to have some involvement from them over the winter so that we could put it all to bed and... Okay,
anybody else have anything in this packet? Okay, anything else? Anybody have anything?
Manders: Just one comment. I appreciate Todd's updates on his e-mails.
Hoffman: You'll be seeing more. It works very well.
Franks: Works good.
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Park and Rec Commission - June 27, 2000
Hoffman: If things change in your e-mail let us know.
Lash: You know mine, I don't have it for the summer so.
Hoffman: Yeah, I'll call you.
Lash: Actually I'm working on my husband for it so we may actually get internet some day.
Howe moved, Franks seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Director of Parks and Recreation
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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