1 Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 23, 2001
Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Fred Berg, Mike Hoxve. Rod Franks. Jim Manders. Jar Karlovich,
and [)avid Moes
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman. Park and Rcc Director: and Jerry Ruegcmcr. Recreation
Superintendent
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Approved as presented.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
DISCUSS TIlE POSSIBILITIES OF LOCATING A YMCA CENTER IN CIIANHASSEN.
l loffman: Thank you Chair [.ash. members of the commission. 1'11 go oxer b,'iefl3 tile documents that
xxel'e distributed in this packet. At the request of the commission this xxas originally scheduled
January 9'~. Thai evening ran late. Tabled it until this evening. Brian I tubbard has responded lo the
three questions posed to him. What acreage is needed to build a YMCA? His answer or response, most
are situated on 8 to 12 acres of land. The second question is the planning and construction time line?
And he goes through that and what the total there is abot~t 2 years. Liule more than that. Ahnost 3 years.
Then what are the top benefits the YMCA to the local community and then he gives a broader answer.
Talking about the uniqueness of the Y. The mission driven organization, communitx Focus. leadership,
etc. If you were lo ask Kexin McShane the day of the Chamber meeting it was because you can have a
piece of ice sheet in it. That's a paying benefit to a YMCA. They have a pool and the other people that
chimed in and says yeah, we pay the same kind of taxes as any other town and we want those facilities so
that's what we get out of the Chamber meeting. The final item xxas lhe map that Kate Aanenson and I
put together. Chanhassen. oh probably 5 or t0 vears ago was knox~n as a land rich community. It is no
longer a land rich community. There are limited sites. These sites are located all on the south side of
ltiglmay 5 and basically along the corridor betx~een Audubon Road and }tighxvay 41. And as noted.
most of these sites would, or all of them work out. would work out as Far as a location. Some of them are
ah'eady under development pressure. The intersection of 41 and 5. the south and west side is being
looked at by Fairview tbr a medical center. There are other uses being contemplated on other parcels as
well so. That's the background information that the commission xvas presented and that's really all staff
has to present to the commission prior to opening it For your discussion.
Lash: Okay, thanks Todd. Is there anyone x~.ant to throw out some questions first to ]'odd'? Maybe just
kind of open this up. I think this...
Franks: lfthere an order in which you want to kind of deal with tile general areas of questions like land
or facility or where we want to go?
ltoffman: Jan can decide that.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Franks: Jan?
Lash: What?
Franks: Do we want to break this discussion down?
Lash: Any way you want Rod. What works for you?
Franks: Well I'm a linear thinker and so.
Lash: Okay. go ahead.
Franks: Grasping like a discussion maybe of what type of facility would look, or and then more of a
discussion of what possible areas would work and then move into a discussion about the type of facility.
Lash: Oka5.
Hoffman: Process.
Franks: Process. I'd like to open then with the basic kind of report, lfxxe could entertain a discussion
amongst the commission about possible sites for tile YMCA.
Lash: Do )ou want to start tlS oW? 1 think yon have some thoughts.
Franks: I do have a couple of thoughts. Are you going to put the map up on tile? There's 2 parcels that 1
was interested in. A couple of parameters that I set when I was looking at these places was to stay as
close to downtown or population area so it's integrated into the more downtown area. And then to stay
close to the Highway 5 corridor as well so it's accessible to both north Chan and south Chan as well.
Deals them equal sense of ownership. Also Highway 5 is a conduit going east and west as well to draxv
in members of the other communities, Victoria and Eden Prairie. The piece that really struck me first
was the kind of triangular shaped piece off Powers Boulevard to the west of Lake Susan. And Todd as 1
understand it, that little kind of trapezoid kind of piece right to the south and vest of that, is that parkland
ah'eady?
ltoffinan: Yes.
Franks: And does that follow that.
I toffinan: Creek.
Franks: Tile creek. And so who currently owns that?
Hoffman: ...tile originator of the NordicTrak.
Lash: Where are you? I'm lost.
Hoffinan: Right there.
Park and Rec Commission Meetino - January ~'
..~, 2001
Hoxxe: That's the railroad tracks.just north of il there?
Franks: Yeah.
Karlovich: Where is tile park land?
Hoffman: Park land is right here.
Franks: And then it goes across of course Powers into the l,ake Susan Pai'k. And what I liked about that
xx. as it's on Poxvers Boulevard, which is a nice, big 4 lane divided and then connected to Lake Susan Park
makes it kind of nice. And it's still pretty rcall> convenes to that whole downtoxvn area. How much
land is tha! parcel? Is that a little bit more than 8 or pretty close?
I loffman: It's larger than 8. I don't have tile exact size. It's probably closer to 12.
Franks: Now is that, l hale to even ask this question, l could look in tlle map but is this parcel included
itl any oftha! Bluff'Creek area'? Or is that tributary into l.ake Susan or that creek, is that?
lief f man: No. Different watershed.
Franks: Dil'f'crent xxatcrshed, okax. So xxc'rc saf~e.
l lolTman: ...on this property. Woods asxxell. Tile building itsclfxxould be somcxxhat tucked axvay up
on top of the hill. which is, llOI much people need to see... They're going to kno~,x xxhere it's at.
Franks: Is it a usable site for that considering the parking and everything that need to occur? Ix)eking at
the topograph5.
tfotTman: Sure. That's x~hv xxe picked it.
Franks: '[he other one el'course is over by that business park.
Itoffinan: Which one?
Franks: Up on top of'.
Hoffman: 5 and 41'?
Franks: Right by your finger. South of there. Right up on top of the hill there. Isn't that where that oak
knoll is?
ttoffman: Yep.
Lash: But that's not part of the Smith Memorial Park now?
Heft'man: No, it's an industrial lot that's part of the Arboretum Village.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Franks: Right, and so I thought that'd be another nice spot close to 41 and 5, and then right next to
Memorial Park too so it'd be a really nice setting. Those are just some of my thoughts about possible
sites. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts too.
Karlovich: I have a question for Todd. If money wasn't all issue, what do you think would be tile best
site?
Hoffinan: Different variables. Both of those sites are very nicely situated in natural resource settings
which are a benefit to oh, kind of the how you feel once you're there. Oui of those two I like the one to
tile east simply because it's centered a bit more in the area of Chanhassen. And then the sites that are up
around.
Karlovich: Do they need Highway 5 visibility is kind off?.
Hoffman: Yeah. These sites, 1,2.3, 4 that would have some Highway 5 visibility. And then these two.
the two that are situated around the wetland complex are also a pretty nice size as far as being able to put
a YMCA and who knows what's going to be there but you're going to have some outdoor activity where
people are going to be able to either look out at large expanses of windows or be outside and look over a
natural resource area rather than looking over Highway 5 or the street. So these four sites off'er some of
that. These fbur sites offer more visibility and also the, presumably more expensive dne to the Highway
5 fi'ontage.
Karlovich: Do you have any idea like itl price pet' square foot, xxhat tile difference is? Do we know?
That phme property right on Higlmay 5, I mean is that like tx~ ice as much or do we have any clue?
Hoffinan: I wouldn't know at this time. I didn't look at that. I didn't make a...point of pricing out
property. $2.00 to $4.00 per square foot at least. And a little bit higher than that up on Highway 5.
Franks: Do you know what tile underlying guiding or zoning is tbr these properties just offthe end
ah'eady? Would they need a zoning of institutional?
Hoffman: All of them would accommodate a Y.
Frank: All of them would accommodate?
Hoffman: That's why they were selected. That's wily I included Kate itl that process.
Manders: My opinion is that that first site that Rod mentioned was my top vote getter for location and
tying itl with the current park structure and you know visibility to downtown.
Lash: That was nay thought too. That was my first choice. Accessibility. We've got a trail system there
on Powers. I think it'd be a nice setting too with the woods. It would give it a nice feel or essence.
Moes: Well speaking for northeast Chanhassen, it would certainly be in a prime location as far as access
is concerned versus getting too much farther down the Highway 5 corridor. This is a, they're looking at
the available lots, the closest ones to northeast Chal~hassen. I know there is strong interest in a YMCA
up in that area. People that I've talked to.
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Park and Rec COlnmission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Lash: I guess I went more with accessibility ~llen I did my choices and because of that 1 wasn't reall5
even thinking price and 1 wasn't thinking vista so I was looking the ones more along Highwa3 5. with the
one closest to Lake Ann as my second choice but given fronl Todd's input about tile wetlands and tile
ones down. is that Galpin? No, Audubon?
I toffinan: Audubon.
Lash: Audubon. You know those would havesonlephlsestoo, ljust think they'd be more difficult to
(,el to then the one oil Powers.
Hoffinan: Well and you al~vays have views o£ l,ake Susan.
Franks: Right. fi'Oln up on top of the hill.
l loxxe: And vou're near fields loo. lmeanballfields, soccer fields, archcrx. Allthalsluffistherexxith
that one.
l tofiSnan: Yeah. I think this exercise is more about.just shoxxing that there are possible sites and less
about which site at this time.
Lash: So what xxould be our options as far as Ir)'ing to somehmv acquire a piece?
l loffman: Again I think that's discussion is probably premature of where we're at xxith this process.
I,ash: But if we want to go fOl-xvard. I mean it'x~e xxanl to go tbmard, but ill the end I want to spend
weeks and weeks talking about doing this onlx lo find out that there's no possible fimding source. To try
to=eel propert).
ttoxxe: Well there's not until we raise lnone), right? Isn't that one of the catches? There had to be fund
raising. Wasn't that what we talked about? We have to have an organized eflbrt.
l,ash: Wexxould?
ttoxve: Well not xxe but the Y.
l.ash: Yeah but they want tis to pOll) up the property so.
Franks: That's what they would like.
Lash: Well)eah.
ltottinan: I would not know what the mechanislns lbr the joint powers xxould be. Again that's all
negotiable as Brian has always stated. If the commission would like to make a recommendation to the
City Council and investigate this, I think what needs to be kept iii miud is the timing. The City Council is
very interested ill a community survey and they're not going to do anything until that community survey
is completed and so if you're interested iii pursuing this, I would recommend that you talk about some.
sort out some oflhe isstles. Send a recommendation up to the City Council to include the YMCA in their
community surxey. I believe they've got a timeline set for the first quarter or first half of 2001 to get that
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January '~
~, 2001
done. I don't think this freshman council is going to move forward oil pursuiug acquisition ofa Y site
without some feedback from the community.
Berg: I think that would only help us.
Lash: Yeah, and that would be a perfect opportuuity roi' tls.
Berg: Great opportunity.
Lash: So good timing.
Franks: Well and good to know that if it's not something that the community is really interested in that
we waste a lot of time on it.
}towc: Right. that's also true.
Berg: But you know they will be. That's the beaut3' of it. They will be really in favor of it.
Karlovich: Well I think the question would have to be worded to make sure that they understaud that a Y
can offer. All tile different facilities that would be there possibly.
Franks: What types of facilities would, I mean as a commission who's represented kind of the interest of
people as far as recreation aud parks, what kinds of facilities would we be interested in?
Berg: Pool. I think we start with a pool
Hox~c: Water park. Pool/water park.
l~ash: Fitness.
Franks: Indoor? Indoor water park?
Karlovich: Well the one that I have in mind is just tile Lifetime itl Plymouth that has, I don't think it has
an indoor water park but.
Franks: It does. It has the indoor zero entry pool with a water slide. And then some other.
Lash: It bad a lap pool because that didn't...
Franks: Yeah, that was separate. And then it had a dive pool. That was separate. In their aquatic center
l think there were 3 separate pools.
Karlovich: And then there were ice sheets next to it, weren't there?
Franks: Two ice sheets.
Lash: And then there was outdoor aquatics.
Franks: And then there was an outdoor pool and water park as well. Zero entry pool.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Berg: Tile ice might be something that this dislrict would be interested ill looking at with us too.
Franks: And what was nice, what 1 liked about that Lifetime Fitness in Plymouth is. it overlooks that
whole wetland area and so when you're out there ill that outdoor pool, I mean you have this really nice
view all around.
l.ash: How about a pool? Would the district be interested in a pool? They don't have a pool at tile high
school.
Berg: The3 don't generally have them at high schools. There*s not going to be one at tile 9th grade
building either. I don't know that they would like, I can't speak tbr them but I don't know thai they
would be. I think they're.
l.ash: You think the middle school is adequate?
Berg: I think tile middle school is adequate for xxhat lhey need nox~. Pools generally are like that.
Manders: Is it so important that we discuss necessarily the alnenities of this in terms of what should be
on that survey? But to consider how much people are xxilling towards this such as X number of dollars
per $100.000 of property taxes or something like that?
Karlovich: M3 questionwasjustkindofthexxorrx about, would you like to have a YMCA inthecitx
and then haxe not a real good response because people really didn'l understand.
Franks: What it would be.
Karlovich: What it would be so that xx'as kind of the Fear' I had xxithjust a surxey question.
Manders: Yeah I agree.
l.ash: And possible amenities would include. Could include and xx, e could maybe list. check ones that
they'd be the most interested in or prioritize or something.
Berg: I think xxe can scale down tile size a little bit because I don't think we need a lot of meeting rooms.
The next. library's going to take care of that. So that would help in terms of keeping the square tbotage
down a little bit. Because I know they provide a lot of those things too, which we might not need.
Hoffman: lfRon xvere here he x~ould say performing arts.
Franks: Wcll that's a very nice theater that the Chaska Connntmity Center has. Very nice.
Berg: Vet3 small.
Lash: Well that's certainly something that could go on the list you know. And if there appears to be, if
it's one of the, you know I don't know how many numbers down we want to go to find out top priorities
for people. I suppose people who have done surveys would know better, l'd say 5. Then 3ou take.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23, 2001
Manders: We've done surveys in tile past. Has there been anything in terms of a community center type
question on past surveys?
Hoffinan: The last survey had that question oil it.
Manders: Do you recall what was involved? Was it a single question, yes or no or did it expand oil?
Hoffinan: 1'11 run upstairs and grab it.
Lash: You know the other thing, information that I suppose could be provided is, would you be
interested in a Y? This would be the kind of amenities that could be included aud you know would 3ou
yourself be interested ill being a member knowing that, what are the dues? $45.00 or something a month.
Yes or no? I mean some people might be interested in having a Y there just to be able to go occasionally
and swim or just sign up for swim lessons but would have no interest whatsoever being a member. And
that'd be helpful for us to know. Probably for the Y to know also. And also would they think it would
be ill their best interest as a citizen for it to be a joint effbrt between the city and tile Y. Knowing that
there could be some advantages to being a resident.
Frauks: I think if we had, I like that if there's some way that the council and us as well could get a sense
that the citizens would really like the city to partnership with a group like the YMCA, that would really
go a long way in creatiug a working relationship. Because then they'd feel like they really have some
mandate to really move forward in that direction.
tlowe: Oue of the differences in a Y and a Lifetime is some of the programs that come out ora Y. I
don't know how. it's going to be hard to survey I think. Maybe we need to just gauge if there's iuterest
before you go into, what would you really what your Y to have and do you realize that there's programs
here like daycare and classes and swim lessous and a lot of things that ill a survey I think you're going to
maybe lose people if you, and I think they're very inqportant questions but I thiuk it's important including
in tile whole mix. That Y's can do more than just a Lifetime, okay. And that's what he's alluding to
here, Brian. But I think that's important to get that message out too.
Karlovich: I think the input that 1 get from at least my neighbors, is that they're either driving to
Northwest on 62 or they're going down to the Chaska Community Center and anything, whether it was
Lifetime or the Y or an~hing, would just be a breath of fl'esh air for them to have something iii our
community.
Berg: The oue thing that's going to have to be discussed is what we do with the Rec Center. Well maybe
we can again, work out a deal somewhere with solnething. Someone or something. Some organization.
Franks: Because tile possibility exists that we run that business right out of town basically by opening np
a big facility like that. Jerry, what's your...
Ruegemer: 1 mean that certainly is a possibility. I'm not sure that...as meeting rooms and that sort of
thing but you know our bread and butter is fitness out there. Where we make a majority of the revenue.
And the gym of course but we don't really make money on the gym but it's certainly a community asset.
And I mean I think that thought was always there in case something should happen, you know the school
district would certainly be interested in talking.
Franks: You don't think they could use the space?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 23, 2001
Ruegemer: Oil I'm sure they can use tile space.
Franks: I'm being fimny.
Karlovich: I thought that one dance studio wanted more room too.
Franks: Well tile dance department or tile dance program, tile)' want like a lot more room. Yeah.
Ruegemer: But I mean thal certaiuly is a possibility. I mean that certainly' has to be discussed. You
know we could be cutting Otll' OWll throats certainly but.
Bern: I think that'd be one of the rhinos tile council's ~oin~ to come back with ri~ht axvav. \Vhat about
the Rec Center?
Franks: Well tile other thina thouoh is \\'c operate that at a loss ever\ \ear.
I,ash: I can't imagine it'd be difficult to rent out the space, and at the vet), least to, I don't kno\x \\ho but
da3care facility. You know maybe tile school. Does Bluff'Creek. ,xotlr kids don't go there? Do tilex
have school age child care program there? Before and after'/
lto\\e: I don't kno~.
l:ranks: M> guess is tile school districtxxouldsnapthalbuildingup.
}lox\c: I \xould think they're desperate for space in those grades, that they'd be interested.
Karlovich: It seems as a commission it seems like xxc should look at tlle big picture and l think that space
there would get used up pretty quickly and xxe should look at \\hat's best for the communit)' as a whole,
not bypass this opportunity.
Lash: l don't think anybody was suggesting that. l just think xxe need to cover the bases because x~c
need to pre-plan for that question because that question is going to come. So \\e just need to deal and
prepare tbr it. Do you have an5' thoughts Todd?
Hoffman: Tile recreation center?
l,ash: Yes.
Franks: Out' concern is that, you know ifx\e go forward and push for anothe,' fitness center to come into
town at that kind of scale, that we push tile recreation center right out of business.
ltoffinan: Out oF business, what does that mean?
Franks: Well since most of the revenue from tile recreation center comes fi'om tile fitness operations.
And people will look at how they can spend their dollar and get, I'm assuming from a YMCA would, at
least what I envision would staff; or have equipment, much bigger equipment area and more fimess
availability and that kind of thing. That people would go spend their money than spending it at tile rec
center.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Hoffman: There's always been that discussion. The recreation center operations may change. They may
evolve into something else. They may lease the building back to the school district. You sell tile
building back to the school district. Really the recreation center is a meeting room center and an extra
gym and a couple of small rooms. So we take the 35 pieces of equipment out of the fitness room and
close it down and make it dance or aerobics or turn it into a dance studio. Many things could happen
there. Tile one thing, ~vhen you think about tile building itself, we also need to remember we have a 20
acre park on that site. And so if we walk away fi'om the building you're still left with a 20 acre park that
I don't think the school district is going to want to take over. With the warming house and a double set
of hockey boards and those type of things. That's not to say we can operate that independently. You do
that here up at Chan Elementary so. I think all questions that need to be answered and thought about, to
be a responsible proposal. Once you say, tell the community you're going to build a YMCA, you're also
going to have to tell them, because they're all going to be thinking, well what are you going to do with
the Rec Center so it's going to have to be discussed and thought up. The question in, 52 golf course.
These stand for strongly support, somewhat support and then you go into tile opposed column. So we get
tile full blown recreation center. That's 55. And so you have 51 on the side of the strongly or somewhat
support. 42 on the other side.
Lash: For ice, that's way over 50%. 75%.
Berg: When was this done?
Hoffman: This was '97. January of'97.
Franks: What are tile numbers down at tile?
ltofflnan: These numbers are support on this side and oppose here and then this is don't know or don't
care.
Franks: But it looks like, so it's 29 and 27 support tile construction of a full service community center?
Hofflnan: Oil you're right. We're down there further.
Franks: Yeah, so it's higher than 56.
Lash: That's what I was looking at for tile ice. That's what I thought was tile ice.
Karlovich: Now you say the middle one doesn't support it? 1 just remember back to surveys and
statistics and the central tendency of people to pick in the middle.
Berg: It seems to me, remembering again fi'om statistics when we did the referendum, that that negative
is pretty high. Those are tile ones who are definitely going to vote, I want to say that we were looking for
a 2/3 support before we went to the referendum. Was that right?
Hoffman: I recall it was 2/3 but throughout the entire, this is the executive summary. It states that Mr.
Morrish did not recommend as you recall, that we move forward with the referendum because of the
negative tax...and the task force and commission I recall struggled with that and they eventually moved
forward. These numbers were more favorable than the remainder of the, as I recall. Some of these
numbers...were a bit more favorable. The community center's the highest one here, is it not?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Moes: Yes.
Berg: Yeah, just to play devil's advocate. The larger number on the disagree still bothers me though
because those at 56% is all for it until they figure out they have to pay for it. The no's are not going to be
no's no matter what it is.
l~ash: The flip sideofthatis, this is a community center versus a YMCA so it wouldn't be all
community flmded. So this is a little different scenario to the taxpayer.
Berg: Right. Absolutely...offer more than a community center in terms of programming.
Franks: Without having to worry about running it in the red year after year.
Berg: Yeah.
Hofflnan: The City Manager is currenlly inlerviekving [}ill Morris who did this stu'vex and some other
firms to get an idea of what a community survey is going lo inx olvc in the city so these numbers xx ill get
fl'eshened up.
Berg: So at this poin! do you xvant us to recommend that xxe haxe an item on the survey' regarding lhe.
asking the community"s interest on.
l]offlnan: t4ox, would you express your interest in a YMCA projec! to council and recommend that thex
include lhat as questions regarding that in the survey.
l,ash: Okay. Does anybody have any addilional thoughls fha! xou xxanl to add'.)
Hox~e: Can we have some input on those questions'? We need to haxe lhat I think.
Lash: Well as an example in this particular one. and I guess I'd be confused x~hv someone would
separate indoor swimming pool fi'om a community center. I mean wouldn't that be a given that they'd be
together?
Or even the ice.
Berg: It might be like a Richfield pool...
Lash: I think we'd be crazy to invest in an indoor pool without anything else.
Berg: That doesn't say indoor. Oh, it does say indoor. Maybe they were just looking For a cheap.
Lash: Besides if you go the whole...the whole thing, l-tare a pool. Have programming and have all the
stuff listed there as one and not have them separated out.
Hofl'man: I can only anticipate that that survey was forwarded. They're going to be looking back to each
individual question to look at their questions. There will be law enforcement questions on there. There
will be street questions. There will be planning questions.
Lash: so this would come back to us before?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23, 2001
Hofflnan: I would think so. I don't know for sure.
Berg: Well I would move that we first recommend, first let tile City Council or tell tile City Council that
we are interested in pursuing looking at a YMCA in the city of Chanhassen. And secondly that we have
questions oil the community survey that is going out concerning, testing community interest on said
YMCA.
Lash: Okay, is there a second? Was that a motion?
Berg: Yes.
Howe: I'd second that.
Berg moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends to the City
Council that the Park and Recreation Commission is interested in pursuing locating a YMCA in
the City of Chanhassen and asks that questions be placed on the upcoming community survey to
test the community's interest in a YMCA. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
2001 LAKE ANN BEACH LIFEGUARD CONTRACT.
Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Lash, members of the commission. Oil an annual basis we do review tile
summer contract for the Lake Ann beach provided by tile Minnetonka Comlnunity Education Services.
It's that time of year again. Before you tonight is the, kind of updated contract with the updated
percentages and totals in that included for your approval tonight. As you can see, the contract does
iuclude the total expenses of the program, and lhat includes benefits, the supervisors, expenses, those sort
of things. Postage, printing, cellular phones, pagers, uniforms, all that is included ill tile contract itself.
The City's 2001 total expenses is the same percentage as last year, 29.53%. That's basically in tile,
based upon that percentage the total lifeguard bill for 2001 would be $22,791.63, Basically if the
contract is approved with that total, this total would be divided into three different payments, and those
are three equal payments of $7597.21. Basically Minnetonka Community Education Services sends all
invoice fbr that amount or whatever the pre-determined payment would be assessed, invoice that and
versus one lump sum we'd just pay that in three separate invoices.
l.ash: Anyone have questions or comments tbr Jerry oll this?
Manders: 1 have a question. Tiffs $22,000 number oil tile front, how does that jive with the second page
from the back where it says lifeguard, $62,000? Under exhibitor.
Ruegemer: What Minnetouka does with tile, in Exhibit A, that's the expense of tile whole program. And
it basically breaks out our percentage that, of the $77,000 on the bottom, 29% of that should equal the
$22.761.
Manders: Okay.
Ruegelner: Jim, did you see the other percentages for the other Exhibit B?
Manders: Yeah.
12
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23,2001
I,ash: So if you total those all together it totals tile $77,000. You okay Jim?
Manders: Yep.
lmsh: Okay. Any other questions?
Moes: Just curiosity, what was our dollar amount for 2000'? Realizing tile percentage xxas tile same. do
)ou knoxx, off the top Jerry?
Ruegelner: It went tip approximately $900 to $1,000 this year.
Moes: Okay. Still sounds pretty reasonable then.
Ruegemer: I was trying to go through m3 brain last xear what it was and I think tile difference was about
$300 per payment. $300 or $400 so ifs approximately $1,000. In that ballpark.
l,ash: I think given the 2000 beach season, we xxould be xxise Io keep our lifeguard scrx ices intact.
Moes: Money well spent.
Lash: Yes. Any other commenls? Okay. is there a motion to approve this or recommend it? Anyone'?
Franks: I move that the Park and Recreation Commission approve tile agreement for summer lifeguard
serx ices at tile Lake Ann beach for 200I as provided by tile contract with Minnetonka Commtmity
Education and Services ill tile dollar amoun! of $22.791.63.
Lash: Is there a second?
Moes: Second.
Franks moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends to approve
the Agreement for Summer Lifeguard Serxiees at Lake Ann Beach for 2001 as provided by the
Minnetonka Community Educntion and Sen, ices, in the amount of $22,791.63. All voted in favor
and tile motion carried unanimously.
RECREATION PROGRAMS: 2001 FEBRUARY FESTIVAL.
Lash: Under recreation programs, reports and the first one is Corey's Feb Fest update. Anyone needing
any more information or anybody wanting to comment oil it'?
Ruegemer: Yeah I was just going to go through it. I was just going to kind of go through tile report and
see if anybody had any questions. Just a general overview. Coming up again on the yd everybody has
pamphlets for that. Corey wanted me to ask, I know some of you are committed for tile volunteering that
da3'. I think I need to talk to Jim or Rod. See if you guys would like to participate somehow that day.
Any volunteer opportunity. We can talk after tile meeting if you'd like and we could get you in.
Franks: Hey, l've been there every year.
13
Park and Rec Commissiou Meeting - January 23, 2001
Ruegemer: And then Fred, Corey wanted me to let you know that he'll be in contact with you about tire
emceeing.
Berg: Okay.
Franks: So the radio station?
Ruegemer: The3,' changed formats.
Franks: Oh yeah that's right.
Ruegemer: And sort of kind of go our owu way... So Corey's been busy working on that. The contests
will be silnilar as last year. Ticket sales are certainly going on right now with tire bulk of the ticket sales
going on the ice that day. Probably 60-70% of the tickets are sold on the ice that day so last year sold
approximately about 1,200 tickets. So we want to beat that this year so.
Lash: So if you had your druthers, does it make life easier if you sell them ahead of time or doesu't it
really matter?
Ruegemer: It would make us breathe a little easier. It's not such a crap shoot but we certainly
understand that. I mean it's been pretty consisteut in the last 3-4 years since we moved to Lake Ann.
That we're up around that 900 to 1,100 range. 1,200 range so.
Frauks: Can l~just make a suggestion about sign-up, and I dou't know if this would work or not but I
know tire years that I've signed people up when it's cold, tire pens don't work so I don't know if using
pencil would work or some kind of a writing implemeut that is temperature sensitive.
Ruegemer: Even with the felt tip pens? They don't work?
Moes: Well after a while no one puts the cap back on because they're filling out and running.
Franks: I don't know what the deal with that and then they could use pencils to fill out the forms. It gets
so cold that the pens quit working. Last year they worked fine. It was warm.
l.ash: It was warm, yeah. But if, this is just an idea and it may be it would screw everything up but if it
makes life easier to have people pre-register, maybe you want to sell the pre-register tickets for less than
on the ice.
Hoffinan: We used to do that. It didn't make a difference.
Lash: No? Okay. It didn't matter?
Hoffman: 2 bucks doesn't matter to anybody.
Ruegemer: People want that flexibility to see what the day is going to be like.
Berg: Do you know if you changed the prize board so that...
14
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Ruegemer: I was going to bring up. if you had all>' suggestions. 1 knox,, we had talked about it at little bit
before, but refresh me.
Lash: Well remember we were doing the every 30 second thing and we ahnost lost our minds so.
Ruegemer: Well that changed.
Lash: Last )car it went better and I think we did, and what did we do? We wrote them and then xxe had
a runner or took the numbers up and posted them and then the omccc was'annoul~cing which helped. ~ttt
one of the things that makes it tough is if they come up to us and say, you know I won. I won. You know
.lust give us their number and we've got 500 numbers written down. It can take forever so I think the 4
of July seems like it's easier because of the timing and the3 can look at the prize board and say 1 won.
Mx name was read at 7:05 and it's easier for us to find it than when we all we have is their number.
Karlovich: That's what I'm signed up for, isn't il'? And 1 saw Cheetos or hot chocolate or something.
l,ash: No. we really can't...
Ruegemer: Would it be helpful to put numbers on the boxes'? Going across somehox~ and sa> I won
prize number 10. lt'sagiftcertificatetoHoulihan's. Would that help?
Lash: lf it matches the thing that.
Ruegcmcr: Is pulled.
l,ash: Right. % ifit's done consistently so that xxc canjust look at our record and scc xeah. thisnumber
matches here.
Berg: It xxould also be easier ifxxe could combine the prizes and not have them excr> 30seconds.
l,ash: Well xxe didn't do that last year. No, I think xve backed off and did it.
Rucgemer: l think x~ejust drew a bunch at a time and then every.
l.ash: 5 minutes or whatever, lthinkxvedrew 10ever5 5minulesor.
Berg: If they had some easy x~ay to look at the board and could come up lo us and say I haxe prize
number 8.
Ruegelner: Well we can ce~ainly correspond what it says on the board onto an 8 ~/2 x 11 sheet of paper
as far as number sequences, we can do that. You want to try thai?
Lash: Yes. And then I think last year too xve did, didn't we combine and we didn't have as manx little
prizes? Or we talked about that at one time.
Berg: I lhink we talked about that tbr this time.
15
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23,2001
Lash: For this time? Okay. You know we had a lot of little grab bags when they opened it up and then
there's, as Fred said there's a sinker and a bobber or something. It doesn't seem like it's hardly worth
coming over to the table. So don't know what you have.
Ruegemer: It's worth at least $5.00. Your entry fee.
Lash: It is'? Okay.
Berg: Because we have a lot of, oh!
Lash: Not impressed. Anything else on that? I thought tire new, I read about tire medallion hunt. I think
that sounds fun.
Ruegemer: They're having a nice prize for that.
Lash: Yeah, it's like $700 or something. That kind of gets community involved even if the?re not real
hot on tile fishing contest thing so I think that's cool.
Ruegemer: There are other ways to get involved so. That's our goal is to become tile St. Paul Winter
Carnival.
Lash: Well we're getting there.
Berg: Yeah, it's a good goal.
l,ash: Anyone else? Okay. Well tell Corey good job. Good luck. We*II be there.
2001 4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION.
Ruegemer: Corey just wanted to let you know, kind of what's been going on up to this point with the 4th
of July. The dates of the events that are going to be coming up this year in 2000. As you know
Casablanca already is booked for this year. We did that back in August I think of last year. And Corey's
going to get through Feb Fest here first before Ire really starts hitting it but he's kind of getting things
together ah'eady for concession vendors and talking to people. Talking to concession people ah'eady as
far as getting maybe a couple more vendors down here to kind of create a festive atmosphere.
Berg: Are we selling Dippin Dots?
Lash: I was going to say I have two words for Corey.
Ruegemer: Dippen Dots?
Lash: Dippen Dots. Oh how about no carnival.
Karlovich: It was at the Excelsior Arts Fair.
Lash: I know. See, and they were out at Carver County Fair. You know they make it to some of these
places so.
16
Park and Rec Comlnission Meeting January 23, 2001
Berg: And no roxxdy carnies.
Franks: I agree. No rowdy carnies but a wonderfully clean and l'un carnival ride atmosphere. Family
amusement area would be wonderful.
Berg: And every worker bas to have 5 fingers oil each hand.
Lash: Didn't we also talk about last year, I'm having a flashback of sort of child center, adult center
format where ifx~e xvere going to, we needed a spread out. It seems to ine like we needed more space
and we talked about maybe more of the kids stuff up here and we also talked about potentially having
baseball bats again. We thought that might be worth giving around again. It xxas very popular back
when, didn't the Rotary used to do it'?
ttoffman: Yes.
Lash: l think it xxas very popular. People liked thalalot. Yeah. ldid. And St. Hubert's might want to
put it oil. It's a huge fund raiser. They make a toll of money, so.
Ruegemer: Corey also is working on tile firexxorks also and that so. We*Il probably bring that
February. The contract lbr that so.
Lash: Yeah, and we definitely talked about we need more tbod vendors. We talked about a differen!
xxav of grouping who was cooking the burgers and stuff last 3'ear, was that tile Bo3,' Scouts?
ltoffman: Boy Scouts.
Lash: You know it's confl~sing v, hen they're set tip on one side of the tenl and other tbod vendors are
somewhere else because you don't really notice and then tile beer set-up xxas way...
Ruegemer: I'll shed a little light on that. We'd been encouraging tile Boy Scouts to kind of'do their O\\ll
thing for as long as they've been doing it but they don't want to spend mone3 oil a tent or a trailer
whatever and basically they take the fi'ee tent space lbr that just in case of rain or pox~er and that sort of
thing so x~e'll certainly try to have conversation x\ith them to try to get them out.
I.ash: \Veil even if they were oil tile opposite, tile side of the lent where iht food vendors arc. That'd be
more visible I think.
Rtlegemer: Well we'll take that into consideration. With tile trade fair going on before hand and
everybody getting set up, it's hard to coordinate all those efforts but we'll take a look at it.
Lash: Yeah that's true.
Berg: If the beer could even.just be back a ways.
Ruegemer: Away fi'om the tent?
Berg: Away fi'om tile tent. The lines made it impossible to walk on that side.
17
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23, 2001
Lash: Aud that's because they were just serving, they didu't have an efficient set-up but xve talked about
maybe they need to have a square set up with people working the middle and then people could come up
oil all four sides of the workers instead of just one side because that just created such groupiug and long
lines.
And people hate to wait.
Franks: Two beer trucks.
Hoffman: More beer faster is all I can bear.
Franks: Everybody told ine. I say that funny but I did get comments. It was so hard to get a pitcher of
beer.
Lash: And probably more of those little pitchers available too.
Franks: I think they've learned. They'll be ready.
Lash: And a lot of that's weather contingent too but this band is a huge drawing card for you kuow
boozers so. Actually we went and saw them just last month, the end of last month ill Chaska. They were
playing at the Chaska Ballroom and it was tim but it was a neighborhood group that went and several
people said you know, it's just not the same as the street dance. Theyjust didn't have nearly as much tim
so. 1 thought that was sort of sad but cool at the same time.
Franks: The parade, this will be tile first year noxx that tile city will be.
Ruegemer: No. To my knowledge what they're still going to be doing is. we put the fifll amonnt, well
there's money iii tile budget but they're still going to kind of go oil their own and do their fired raising.
Then if there are shortfalls, then tile city will cover the shortfalls and therefore it xvon*t be tile full $8,000
that they were looking for.
Franks: Okay.
Lash: Anything else?
Moes: I was.just trying to think when we did tile discussion right after tile 4th of July last year. Was
there discussion on, I mean we used the City Center area for like one day and we were going to try aud
expand that and utilize it for the second day as well just so that, I mean we expend a lot of euergy putting
up the tents and getting everything ready for kind of, really ail evening crowd starting oil the 3'd ill
essence but to try and utilize that time and effort for activities on the 4th as well.
Lash: We did talk about that and a lot of people after the parade started asking, well what's going on
over there because they see the tents and they have an expectation that something else is going on.
Moes: Right.
Lash: I know at one time I suggested trying to, and it kind of pooh poohed but moving the trade fair
thing to that day and having it, but you guys said that you really thought that the Chamber wants to keep
it the night of the street dance but even if we had a Taste of Chanhassen or could we try an art thing or I
don't know.
18
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - Jauuary 23, 2001
Berg: How about Biugo that day'?
Imsh: I think people like to drink and play Bingo...
Berg: How about go aloug with a Taste of Chanhassen?
l.ash: Yeah. could do that.
Moos: I suppose you could push tile parade back til 11:00. IJasts til noon and they'll all feel comtb,'tablc
because it's aflernoou.
t toff man: Tile whole issue of having anything ou tile 4th that involxes bringing in a whole lot of
businesses or vohmteers, it's a national holiday.
I.ash: Oil. The other thing it competes theu with what we're trying to do at l.ake Ann Park too xxhich is,
that's auother thing.
Moes: I xxasn't sure if there was, I was trying to go back. if there were activities at Lake Ann Park that
could be expanded or brought back up here and l just, l'ln just kind of recalling our folloxx-up
conversation after last year to see if there was a way to use the space because it is all set up. I can't think
of anything offhand that it could be used for but I thought I'd at least throw it out.
l toff man: A 2 day carnival, 1 think that was brough! up.
Franks: You know thenvoucouldgixcfoodxendorstllexxhole2davdeal, l'm sure that'd be more
atlractive to thenl as well.
I-loffman: We thought about using tile tent but it was difficult.
Ruegelner: Yeah for all tile reasons aud then for staff wise too as far as ifxxe'rc all busy doing
SOlnething at Lake Ann and l'm doing the parade and Corey's at Lake Ann and Todd's at Lake Ann. You
know uot that it can't be done but coordination certainly is an issue.
l,ash: Then it's,just auother whole day ofevems to try and plan and coordinate too so it's like double.
Moes: Oil 1 understand. It's been you know. it's beeu brought up. There are a lot of activities, ifxve can
spread them out but right, tile coordiuation or thinking up nexv events I think would certainly be very
difficult to do because there are plenty already goiug on. It doesn't matter that something was growing
so big that you might want to move it.
Lash: You know we've never had an art thing. Arts and crafts. I don't know how you'd exert begin to
do something like that.
ttofl'mau: It takes a real initiative aud you start aud you move on. These art fairs across tile state are
huge bul the3 are 20 years old. There's a real traditiou to them. And I also think ifxxe're serious about
that, we ueed to watch aud see what happens with the library and the town square aud what kind ora feel
we're going to have down there and where's tile event going to be iu the future. Because I certainly think
19
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
there's, xve made a big investment in setting tip those, all of those physical needs that are out there aud if
you can continue to use them tile next day and...
Lash: Well you guys can definitely kick around ideas too. You know maybe somebody's going to have a
brainstorm that we haven't thought of.
Berg: I see some of the things they do in Eden Prairie and they have an awful lot of outdoor festivals in
Eden Prairie with Scooner Days and all those other things. Maybe we cai? get some ideas fi'om them.
Franks: They have carnival rides at Scooner Days don't they?
Lash: No.
Berg: I don't believe they do, no.
Hoffman: l just talked with...staffmembers over in Eden Prairie and they're taking a look at all of their
festivals and they may in fact be dropping some or changing some because of the changing nature of tile
community. So these festivals are 15 and 20 years old and they're not, they don't have tile appeal or tile
same feel as they had 10-15 years ago so, thiugs are changing.
Lash: Okay, an3~thing else for festivals and celebrations? Okay.
ADMINISTRATIVE: 2001 MEETING CALENDAR AND 2001 REPORT SCHEDULE.
Lash: We've got our meeting calendar. Anybody see any obvious conflicts? With holidays or anything.
I don't see an34hil~g. Fred, you're going to be happy to hear this. I will ilo! be here on the 27th. I have
parent teacher conferences.
Berg: February?
Lash: Yep.
Howe: Nor will I.
Berg: Oh boy.
Lash: We get nervous now.
Hoffman: Doxvn to 5.
Lash: If anybody else is planning on missing, we'll be getting, running pretty short so. Anybody see
anything else?
Howe: Todd, the CAA as we know it is now they've changed that? I didn't hear about...baseball
association.
Hoffinan: Well just the, yeah the baseball part of it has changed.
Berg: He sort of violated the rules and jumped way ahead.
20
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23. 2001
ltox~e: Oh I'm sorry. I thought administration. I'm sorry.
Lash: Do we need to vote on that calendar?
Hofflnan: No. I also have a second calendar which is the 2001 schedule fbr Park and Recreation
Commission attendance at City Council meetings and on the back it has all of your terlns, voice mail,
faxes, e-mails.
l~ash: Thanks to you Norma lbr calling me today because our c-mail's been dox~.n for 2 weeks so I
wouldn't have knox~,n.
Karlovich: With regards to the scheduling. At least 3 volunteers on the 2''d and 4~h Mondays I'm in
Mahtolnedi acting as their city attorney so I can't make it to these so if anyone's interested in March t2th.
June 25'h or September 24th.
l.ash: Well I cnn switch xx. ilh you in June. That won't be a problem.
correct? Unless there's a park issue.
l tot'finan: Correct. You'll be mailed if it's there.
l.ash: So why don't, I'll trade with you Jay.
Karlovich: Well I can't really trade. I mean ever3.
l toffinan: These are always 2'd and 4~h.
l~ash: Oh. oh. oh. okay.
Franks: Todd can3ouifsomethingcomesup.
Lash: Just call oneofus,
ttoffinan: Okay, 1'11 just note those and if we've got a hot item that night 1'11 call the commissioners.
Manders: As usual I mean you guys contact us ifxxe need to be here. Othcrxxise ifs a not.
Hofflnan: Yep. We've added it on there an agenda and park commission items will be delivered to you a
week prior to your assigned dates if they're on the agenda. It's just automatic.
Lash: Okay, and then our next item is to move to go have qua~erly repo~s fi'om our managers and
superintendents and whatever all the titles are so, does anybody have questions or comlnents on lhat?
Sounds like a good idea. Any committee reports? Michael?
Howe: Well Rod and I attended the first meeting in 2001 of the Dave Huffinan Race Committee. Just
xxant you to know. It's September 15th. ~Ze'l'e moving ahead.
And xxc don't have to attend, is that
21
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Lash:
days.
right?
Okay, anybody else who's on a COlnlnittee? We don't have vet'3' many committees going these
And our metnorial comlnittee is pretty much defimct uo'~v because that's pretty much just going,
Hoffinan: Yes.
Lash: Okay. Comlnissiou member preseutations? Anybody have anything for that?
Berg: Well Michael and I attended tile City Council meeting last night an'd addressed tire round house
issue. I was speaking for myself. I felt pretty good when we xvere done. I had a sense that they wanted
to, there wasn't an awful lot of sentilnent to keep it when we started. If you couldn't sort of guess fi'om
tire tone of the e-mail, you probably heard me screaming.
Lash: Now you're going to have to back up. What e-mail? I don't get e-mails so...
Howe: I've got a copy of it.
Berg: Michael's got a copy of it. So we went up there and what they're going to do before they're, and
fill in, before they were willing to look seriously at spending $125,000 to renovate, they want to test the
waters again itl terms of the community. They want to do another survey and get some feedback from
them. Which seemed last night to be a pretty good compromise based on where it might be going. It
looked like it lnight be going at tire start.
Howe: So it was 4 to nothing they tabled it. To get some more of that more input and if they could just
refurbish the outside and leave the inside aud if the lead paint was indeed a serious environmental hazard
and that had to be looked into so.
Hoffman: They tabled it but only with one directive. They tabled it with the thought that they may go
out to tile community in the future but all they asked tbr was a cost of not completing the entire pro. ject
but.just doing the outside.
Berg: For cosmetic appearances.
I toffmau: So they xvant to know that number first before they would go out and introduce the project to
tile neighborhood again. So we're working on that number, l don't support it. It's either in my opinion
all or nothing, but we'll get that number to the City Council at their next meeting and then they'll have
additional direction for staff.
Karlovicb: What is our expenditure down to then if no trail, no round house? I mean what are we even
doing in 20017
Hoffman: Tile playground out at Stone Creek Park and some other ininor items. There's not a lot left.
Lash: I was reading the e-lnail so I wasn't able to multi-task. What did you say happened last night?
Berg: Tire), directed Todd to find out how much it would cost to work on tire exterior. To refurbish the
exterior and not do anything to tile inside.
Lash: So what would be the point of that?
22
Park alld Rec Commission Meeting- January-o, 2001
Berg: They wouldu't be spending as much money.
l,ash: But it also would be.
Berg: They weren't interested in hearing any discussion about whether that was a good thing or bad
thing last night. They were, I had a sense they were, they xvanted to discuss whether or uot xxe should
even coulinue tile discussion or just raze it tomorrow. That's being a bit overly dramatic.
Lash: Okay, so xxhat Imppencd? Tile)' tabled it'.)
Berg: They tabled it with tile direction to Todd to come up with a cost for what it would be to ,just
refurbish tile outside. But they also talked unofficially about redoing tile survey of the neighbors to see if
they xxanted to spend that kind of money to do, as one person said, just do the round house.
Franks: You mean are you suggesting that they had an idea like, if there was $125~000 to spend, xxould
that area prefer to spend it on refl.'bishing the roulld house or xxould they prefer lo speud it on like a
hockey rink?
Berg: I locke)' rink, 3'es. Yes, that's exactly xxhat.
Franks: Is that kind of.
Berg: That's exactly tile sense that
Hofiinan: Mayor Jansen heard fi'om neighbors xxhile campaigning in that area that tile)' wanted tile park
to be finished. The3 wanted the other components of the park to be [iuished. not necessarilx the rouud
house. But it is ugly but we want nlore playgrotmd equipment. We xxant our hockey rink.
Lash: I thought there was kind of actually a push against tile hockey out there because we ended up
putting that pretty loxx on the priority list because it seemed, as I recall, tile ueighbors xxercn't especially
supportive of hockey.
ltoffman: Yeah. I presented tile neighborhood, findings of the neighborhood meeting to the council last
uight. Number one was the playgrotmd. Number two was refurbishment of the round house.
Franks: So they were presented with that information?
Hoffinan: Yes.
Franks: Okay.
Lash: But they still want to survey tile neighborhood?
Hoffinan: Well due to the cost, tile escalating cost of the round house. Tile commission did mail a letter
to the neighborhood, I think it was last July stating that the costs bad escalated up to the $80.000 mark
but the neighborhood at large is not aware that it is now at $120,000 price tag. Council beliexes they
may feel differently.
23
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23,2001
Lash: Well do we want to schedule a meeting and invite the neighbors iu?
Hoffman: Council may do that in the future. They haven't chosen to give that directive just yet.
Karlovich: How long will the process take of doing another survey?
Hoffinan: Oh it'd just be a neighborhood meeting I think.
Franks: So the council would direct us as a commission to hold a neighb6rhood meeting. Is that what
you' re saying?
Hofflnan: Correct. And they may or may not do that. Councihnember Peterson brought tip that it should
be stated in this new letter that you either colne in and talk about your desire to keep the round house or
it's going to be tom down. That's what the letter said last July and we had very little response at that
meeting when you upped the budget to $80,000 to determine to do that so. but we can try that again.
Lash: So did a%one last night address the question that the city manager had regarding this project?
Hoffmau: Yes.
Lash: Okay. And did the City Council seem to understand that. you know, the logic behiud or the
emotion behind some of those reasons?
Berg: The couucil was really split. You had one council person who seemed to be very much in favor of
the recommendation, and xvould have gone along with tire idea. Another council menlber who doesn't
want to spend the money to have it done. And then you have two in the middle who are willing to look at
this.
Hofflnan: The council as a whole, that council, the new council as a whole.just has not been involved in
the project, the 4 year history so they just want to take some additional time to make sure that they're.
Berg: And Michael did a really uicejob of pointing out that we're not a willy nilly group that goes out
just frivolously spending money and I was struck not only with how well you did with that but how the
city I think and the council doesn't know that because they don't know tis at all. Half of them have never
seen us in operation. So I walked out of there feeling that this is air okay compromise because again
they. we have to build up their trust with these people too.
Lash: So they're just basically trying to take some time their?
Berg: Yeah it would be wrong to imply that I think it would be that there was some of sinister move here
to delay things before we tear it down. I didn't get that sense at all. It seelned to be a very open, give and
take.
Howe: And they really wanted our opinions. 1 mean they debated this an hour and a half and they really,
I mean a couple of the council members were very, you know we need to hear fi'om Fred and Mike aud
gee good points Fred and Mike and I didn't really know that about this and, I was, they seemed open to
listening to our views.
Lash: Okay, so they want to get input from the neighborhood and then what?
24
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Hofflnan: No they don't. At this time tile3, want to knoxx what it would cost just to maintain tile exterior
of the building.
Berg: It seems that the next step might be to get input fi'om the neighborhood if, depending on what
these numbers say.
Lash: Well I don't have a problem I guess with getting more information but if in tile end tile building
isn't functional for anything, then it's been patched back together so it's not all eye sore, I don't know
that that's really serving the whole purpose of xx. hat we had in mind. If ill tile end we're still going to
have to pay the rent to have a warlning house out there, but the rouud house looks nice on the outside,
that doesn't seem like it's functional.
Berg: Depends on what tile numbers are.
l lowe: I think one of their problems was. for, and I can't say I disagree xvitb them. 1 think we're looking
at more o|: as Fred xx. ould say an advocate and this is historical and it's a beautiful building. II could be
but I got the sense fi'om a lot of the membe,'s that ah'ight, you want to spend $125.000. You've got 20
into it noxx. This is=om=,, ' ,, to be a warmino= house for 2 months in tile winter and xxhat are~vou =ooiw,= to do
with it in the sure,ncr and I think there's uses tbr it in the summer but I don't think we can say for sure
that oh 3eah we'll have Bingo ill there every Friday night. We don't know enough and I think they
thought gee. for that limited use of what this may be. it's a lot of money. ]'Ilex' kept going back to that.
Lash: And what do we pay roi' warming house rental'? For a trailer.
l toffman: About $2.000 a 3ear.
Berg: So it'd be 50 years before xxe'd haxe it paid off.
tk~ffman: They x~ent through all tile numbers.
Karlovich: Did tile point get across though as to how much we normally budget for total programs in a
veal' and where we are right now. It just seems like we're not really doing anything ill 2001. We put a
lot of things offto fim~re year's. We try to stay around a quarter ora million dollars and now we've had
like our two biggest projects in 2001 have kind of gone out tile windox~, or at least are put off. I guess.
Hoffinan: It was not brought up. I don't know that that would have any value. The council wasn't going
to approve pro. jects or change their minds simply because we're not doing tile pro. jects that were
budgeted. They want to make sure that they feel comtbrtable with them.
Lash: It's money well spent, yeah. You know one of the points that. and you gu3s maybe raised this.
I'm sure Michael did eloquently last night but I look at Roundhouse Park as not just a typical
neighborhood park because they are so isolated from town. That this is tile only thing that those people
out there bare and we worked hard to try and finally get something out there so if we eud up getting
something that's a liltle bit special, you know that doesn't.
ltoffman: We talked that way.
Lash: And I'm as cheap as the next.
25
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Hoffman: Commissioner.
Lash: Yeah, council me~nber can be so, but I have a bigger heart for that particular park. Okay. Okay,
well you'll keep us updated on that, right? And if you need more. l'm son'y, l'm not getting e-mails. I
easily could have come last night so.
Franks: Todd, just as I remember correctly, on our 5 year CIP, there's no[hing else scheduled for that
park.
Hoffman: Correct.
Howe: That was brought up last night too.
Hoffman: Due to the upfront investment that you made, it's time to give the park a breather and move on
to other things ill the COlnmunity.
Lash: Okay. Well thanks for going last night you guys. Anything else under commission member
presentation? Anyone? Now Mike, under tile Administrative Packet. Was there something that caught
your eye?
Howe: Sorry I rushed that. Todd explain to me this new, this CAA baseball. It's going to be combined
with Carver, Chaska and Cbanhassen now so a bigger league 1 would say.
Hofi'man: FaMy. After Frank passed away there's been a lot of juggling of. and fallout really of where
these things, who's going to pick them up. Who's going to organize them and some folks that were
inxolved xxith tile baseball association or tile baseball program said we're not quite happy xvith how this
is going so they met with tile leadership of the CAA and the3 said, here's what we'd like to do and they
all agreed to combine.
Howe: Thanks.
Lash: Anybody else? Anybody have anything else in this whole thing? Who's Robert Petcrson?
Hoffman: Yep, Bob Peterson. Bob Peterson was tile Project Manager for both City Center and
Bandimere Park.
Franks: Where is Safari Island?
Hoffinan: West of Waconia and north of Highway 5 at the new middle school. It's a new middle school
and community center tied into one.
Franks: So that was a city/school district collaborative effort.
Lash: That will be kind of neat to follow and just kind of see what kind of a go they make of it.
Hoffman: They're starting from scratch.
Lash: Yeah. Will we be privy to that kind of...
26
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January '~ ~
.~, 2001
l loffman: Oil sure. Chris...tlle new Parks Director is formerly from Eagan. We get together and chat
and she started fi'om ground zero.
Franks: Do you have any idea offhand how much the city has invested into that project?
Hoffinan: No, I don't. It's in the 4 to 8 million range. I'm not sure what exactly it is.
Lash: How did they get the money to do that?
ltoffinan: I don't know.
Berg: Do you think that'd be a good field trip sometime?
Hoffinan: Oh sure. Yeah. once they're up and running.
Ruegelner: Just to give the COlnlnission an update. I did run inlo Para Mueller xxilh the INT xxater ski
shoxx doxxn at the Boat Show last weekend and the3 would like to do it again bul lhere xxill be more of a
formal presentation coining on the February commission agenda. It sounded like they x~anled to do the
first weekend in June. It did work out better for everybody.
Lash: Hoxv'd it=,,o last year?
Ruegemer: You know what? Really good.
l,ash: Good.
Ruegemer: We didn't hear really an3thing fi'om the residents on the lake so.just to give you guys a heads
up if3ou xxant to do anx homex~ork prior, I'm going to bring il in Vebruarx.
l lot'finan: The lake aerator went in today ~br Lake Susan. Oxygen is going down. II still is a safe lexel
but it may dip below that. It's the first time in 3 years the aeration has gone in.
l,ash: Here's, you want these tonight and then are you going lo reschedule that?
l tofflnan: Yes, xxe'll reschedule lbr Februar3.
Lash: Anyone else have an~hing?
ltowe: Well Todd, one thing. Can you get us some time in fi'om of the City Council just to tell them
about the Dave Huffman Race again?
Hoffman: Sure. What month~
ltowe: I don't care. Just to tell them we're goingto do it. Just a formality thing. We did the same thing
last )ear.
Itoffman: It's really busy in February.
27
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- January 23, 2001
Howe: March is fine.
Berg: Why don't you schedule it for March 12th and then that will take care of one of Jay's meetings.
ltoxve: I'm still coming down from last night.
Hoffinan: Good idea. I believe also the council is scheduling a work session with all commissions ou
March 5~h. So if you can check your calendar, I believe that's...
Manders: I was just going to ask a quick question if there was any feedback on the Villager article on the
Fox property?
ttoffman: No.
Franks: That xvas a well done article. Really well written.
Lash: Thanks Melissa.
Hoffman: I called Eric. Instead of calling Melissa directly 1 called Eric. I thought she did a really nice
job. We met there for a couple hours on the site. Took a long tour through the property. The
background information that she came up with was more than anyoue here at City Hall has known about
the property with phone calls to the different people so.
Lash: Okay. anything else?
Karlovich: I guess I have one last thing. I got a couple of telephone calls from Sue McAIlister and I
suggested that she contact you Todd to talk about any fi~ture preservation of her property and thc
proximity to Bluff Creek and I don't know if she called you or not.
Hoffinan: She stopped by today.
Karlovich: Okay.
Hofflnan: What I got out of the conversation is that Sue's in her mid 50's. She's looking to try to make
sometbiug out of this property and this petting farm is going to take some pretty big capital to get that
going. If in this future, this property could be in the hands of the City, would there be an interest in
providing a down payment to allow her to invest in her petting farm, Maintain that for 10 or 15 years and
then after that time period the City would take ownership of the property for something like a living
history farms. I don't know who's been at the Brooklyn Park, what's it called?...and I stated that that
kind of an arrangement I would think would be the only kind that the City would be interested in. We
would not ~vant to run a petting farm and so she would need to run tbat idea past the COlmnission so. And
obviously in that kind of arrangement, for appointed or elected officials to go along with that, to tell the
citizens that we're going to pay for property that we're going to gain access to in 15 years is ahnost a life
estate type of arrangement. It has to come at a reduced price and so, she gets the benefit of au upfront
paylnent and being able to utilize the land but then we get a reduced price in the future so, it's something
that she may be presenting to tbe commission in the future.
Lasb: Thanks Jay. Anything else? Hearing nothing else, is there a motion to adjourn?
28
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - January 23. 2001
ltoxve moved, Moes seconded to adjourn the Park anti Recreation Commission meeting. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Submitted by Todd Hoffinan
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
29