1 Approval of Minutes - MarCHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 27, 2001
Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Fred Berg, Mike Howe, Rod Franks, Jay Karlovich, David Moes,
and Jim Manders
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent; Susan Marek, Recreation Center Supervisor; and Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Todd Hoffman added items under Administrative Presentation.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: PRESENTATION OF LETTERS REQUESTING A SWIMMING
POOL~ MRS. FORCE'S 3aD GRADE CLASS~ CHANHASSEN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
Hoffman: These letters were presented to me by parents of Mrs. Force's 3rd grade class and they will be
presented to the City Council next week. I believe some of the students are planning on attending that
particular meeting and it's from an assignment for a persuasive piece of written material. So they
decided they'd come up with the topic of a swimming pool in Chanhassen. Enjoy the reading.
Karlovich: What grade is this?
Hoffman: 3rd grade.
Berg: Is there a kid with the last name Frank in that class?
Franks: A couple more years. And my child would use the term children's water features.
Lash: Okay, so we have to do nothing with this? This will go on another agenda or this is just going to
go, what's it going to do?
Hoffman: Go to City Council. Just for public presentation.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Howe moved, Franks seconded to approve the minutes of the Park and
Recreation Commission meeting dated January 9, 2001 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously.
WEST HENNEPIN COMMUNITY SERVICES CONTRACT.
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item.
Lash: Any commissioners who have questions or comments about this for Jerry?
Park and Ree Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
Howe: I just wish more people would use it. I mean I think it's a good program. If you sense an
increasing interest, that's a very good sign.
Berg: How do we advertise such a thing? How do people find out about this? Is there a network that.
Ruegemer: There is a network within the community that have used the service obviously. We
constantly do in our annual newsletter. West Hennepin Community Services at their office have
professionals that really kind of pass on the information and really try to network that way with other
cities and communities so it's ongoing. You didn't receive the newsletter in the mail?
Lash: I believe I have seen advertisements for these things. Either in community ed or it's in, there's
something that comes through the mail that I've seen these things advertised.
Franks: Is this, my just question in looking at the numbers and I'm seeing just from the grids that you
provided that we had like 2 participants...
Ruegemer: Well then we had other inclusion services as well.
Hoffman: The 3 on the back. Their spring newsletter is included in the administrative packet. The West
Hennepin Community Services.
Lash: Maybe that's where I read it. In my packet.
Franks: Are we at a point, kind of a critical mass point where we're really able to utilize what they offer
or are we just really putting the cart before the horse at this point? You know in the use or numbers of
people who are going to use it just really aren't here or wanting to use it or utilizing some other services
for their recreation needs. I don't know, I'm just, when I saw that, and it's not a huge amount of money.
$2,700 but would there be a more effective way to spend that on 5 people? Or are we really looking for
things to start changing? I guess that's what I hear you suggesting.
Ruegemer: Certainly, right. I mean this is a start for us and we're providing kind ora base level service
for this population. It's $2,700 is certainly cheaper than having a staff person, another staff person in our
office to provide this sort of service. A lot of the kids that participate are certainly participating probably
in school activities where they may have contacts with these types of services already, but it's a constant
networking type of situation for us and we really want to get the word out that we provide this type of
service. I mean I can see where you're coming from. If you put the pen to paper, you know 5 kids
divided by $2,700, can you justify it? Probably not, but I think it's a great service that we provide and
it's worth it if you talk to the people that are participating in the programs. In my opinion.
Franks: Does it change the nature of our contract if we don't renew each year?
Ruegemer: And contract on an individual type of basis?
Franks: No, with West Hennepin Community Services contract. I mean if we were to opt out for a year
and then want to come back in, would that change the formula that's used to compute what our
contribution would be as a city?
Ruegemer: I do not know that. I didn't ask that question.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Lash: Well I would typically expect our start-up to be before the word is out and we would see, this is
our third year right?
Ruegemer: Yes.
Lash: So do you think 3 years? 5 years? How long do you think?
Ruegemer: I don't know if we can put a number to that. I look at it for like for the small amount that we
do pay, it's a service that we provide.
Manders: Do you have some track record of participation in the past 2 years?
Ruegemer: Last year, or last fall my numbers were about the same.
Lash: I know because last time because I brought it up last time. Same concerns as Rod.
Manders: It's pretty difficult to, what is the number that we expect? Are we thinking 10 or 20 would be
the top or, and I know that's very difficult to arrive at.
Lash: Well is there some way that we can find out what our clientele base would be? I mean how many
people in town would actually, if the word was out, how many people would actually participate in these
things? Maybe there are not that many people in town with these types of disabilities that would
participate.
Franks: Or being in town, they're having these needs met through some other way.
Hoffman: We can acquire with the county on those numbers. Those statistics. They may have some
information on that. If you look at geographically Minnetonka is the southern line for the program so
Chaska and Chanhassen, we are on the southern end and we're kind of wrapped around by Eden Prairie
and Bloomington that participate in other programs. And so it's just, if this program had not been
available and people have been using other services and so it's a mechanism where we all are kind of
have to keep our ears open and get the momentum behind the program.
Manders: This is kind of, I hate to bring this up but getting back to some of the budgeting efforts in past
years to quantify the value of, for a trail or park or whatever it is. Is there any quantification that you
recall on the value of how much per person all the park systems in Chanhassen are worth?
Hoffman: How much per person?
Manders: Yeah, it's like say do we as an individual do you get $1,000 worth of value out of what we
contribute each year to the parks? And so here they're spending $500, which is a lot less so what's the
big deal. You know that type of thing. And I don't suggest that you have that.
Hoffman: I know what it costs each taxpayer but I don't know what their benefit is.
Manders: Well maybe that's the numbers, the cost. What is the cost per person?
Hoffman: It's pretty cheap. It's around 24 cents.
3
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Berg: Jerry, isn't this number tied into the number of participants we have too? If we doubled the
number of participants, wouldn't we be paying more towards our contract?
Ruegemer: The inclusion services are included within the contract amount. Is that what you're asking?
Berg: I'm asking if we had, if right now we have 5 people that $2727, if we had 10 people tomorrow,
would the cost be the same? Next year too?
Karlovich: Is that 5 people like just 1 person, I event? Can you describe, what does the number 1 mean?
Lash: It means 1 person.
Karlovich: 1 person, 1 bowling 1 time?
Lash: To that event. That's the way I read it. I person from Chanhassen went bowling.
Franks: I personally don't have a problem with the value of this type of programming. In fact I'm
completely in favor of it, but what I'm wanting to question is the utility of spending the money there.
Hoffman: Well we looked at that prior to 3 years ago we didn't do anything. So 3 years ago we said how
can we deliver this service. We had conversations with Eden Prairie and the other service providers and
they said well you can hire somebody. You can train somebody. Or you can contract with a service
provider who has the experience in that area so. We're not going to find anything less expensive, or
more effective in delivering the service, but I can certainly understand where we want to make sure that
those dollars are invested in any way that has some utility.
Lash: Well I certainly don't have a problem with providing the service either but if people are not going
to take advantage of the service, then we're just throwing good money after bad. You know I think for
the first few years it was sort of wait and see how this takes off thought process and I think at some point
we need to decide when are we going to say okay, it's out there. People who would use it know about it,
but they're choosing not to use it. Then do we need to provide it anymore?
Franks: I guess, and along with that, when I said putting the cart before the horse a little bit was,
typically things come to our attention because there's a group of people or citizens that are concerned and
have built some momentum around saying hey, this is what we need. And in this instance we kind of
said hey, we should be out there providing this when, and now we're trying to drum up that kind of
momentum for people to use it, which is a little different than how we usually do things responding to a
need.
Hoffman: Well we did have a parent that came in and...to the park commission about her desire to see
these services brought to the city. That was one of the measures to bring it in. We had a mother that
came in.
Franks: That's right.
Hoffman: I don't think there's anything wrong with telling staffthat you're going to give it one more
year and if it doesn't work, we opt out of the program. That will send a message to us and to the people
at West Hennepin that go out there and drum up some support for the program or we're not doing it...
4
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Moes: Question. I apologize for being late, but I know when we first looked at this we were looking at
for more the children, teenage individuals and I'm looking at the report here and there seems to be a lot
of activity on the adult side. What drives that in the other communities? Are we not hitting that
population here at all for some reason? I mean I look at the numbers and it looks like the adult activities
are just great attendance.
Hoffman: I think you look at the cities where they're coming from and they're just, much lower
population in Chanhassen.
Moes: Okay. I didn't know if there was a different group that maybe we haven't been communicating
this to or letting them be aware of it when I looked at the number of adult participants in the activities
across the other areas. It's like wow, it's a significant difference. When we had gone into the program
looking at it from the child and teenage range there.
Howe: What will define what's successful and what's not? If we double the participants to 10 next year
when you have the discussion, are we going to say that's great. 5 probably is not the result we're looking
for but do we have a number that we're going to look at?
Hoffman: At this point you're probably say increasing. Anything that increases. Unless you feel
strongly that you want to...
Berg: 20% increase.
Karlovich: Yeah, we need a 20% increase.
Franks: You know I would be more interested in going this next year and really, in the report at the end
of the year having detailed what efforts were made to really market this program. Then we can gauge
that by the response because if we're really saying there's really nothing more to do to market and get the
word out and people still aren't utilizing it, that gives us I think a little bit more information than the
number of participants who actually engaged, and then maybe we can make a decision about whether it's
really worth it to continue or not. At this time. My guess is once our population begins to increase that, I
mean it's just going to be that much more ora demand for this, and that's why I'd also like to know if
maintaining a continuous contract cuts you a break or whether you have to, whether it changes if you
break off the contract for a few years and then join back up.
Hoffman: The numbers are, the contracts based off the base level yet. Their fees increase over that time
you're out, then you're just going to pay it.
Franks: But everybody would.
Lash: And it would go up even if we stayed in, right so. Does somebody want to make a motion on this?
Berg: I move we approve the 2001 contract with West Hennepin Community Services to provide
adaptive recreation services for children and adults with developmental disabilities. The contract amount
should be $2,727.00.
Lash: Is there a second to that?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Franks: If I could add a friendly amendment too. That along with that we direct staff to detail the efforts
that were made to promote the program and also run some analysis on the breakdown of participants so
we could determine whether funding should continue into the future. Would that be acceptable?
Berg: That's acceptable.
Lash: Okay, is there a second to that?
Howe: I'd second that.
Berg moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the 2001 contract
with West Hennepin Community Services to provide adaptive recreation services for children and
adults with developmental disabilities in the contract amount of $2,727.00. Also, directing staff to
detail the efforts made to promote the program and provide analysis on the breakdown of
participants to determine future funding. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
Marek: You should have in front of you a page that I prepared for the council members. We had our
meeting with them on March 5th, and this was just an overview summary of the rec center and our current
position on where our financials sit at the close of the year 2000. The pie chart shows the breakdown of
where our revenues come from, and you will see that our expenses totaled about $200,000. I'm also
going to add that these are not the final close numbers for the year 2000, as those are not available yet
from our finance department. So they are close but not exactly accurate. So as usual we do have a bit of
a shortfall there. But you can see where the revenues come from and ifI can just point out that over 50%
of our revenues do come from our fitness activities. And 89% of that revenue does come from resident
of Chanhassen. And at the rec center we define a resident as someone who lives or works in Chanhassen.
So our clientele is very, very local. We certainly aren't drawing people from surrounding communities.
New things coming up at the rec center. We do have capital money to spend this year. Two new pieces
ofcardio equipment will be ordered in the spring, and all the carpet at the rec center will be replaced in
August. Also coming up will be a review and possible changes to our rental, room rental policy. Right
now we have a highly fragmented fee structure. Resident, non-resident fees. Weekend, weekday rates.
And frankly customers who rent our rooms are Chanhassen residents. We don't have a lot of, we're not
attracting a lot of rental business from outside of Chanhassen so we're looking at simplifying that
procedure as well and so I look to have something to propose to this commission in the next couple
months. Not a lot of changes in staff at the rec center. Kind of the same bunch that's been there for quite
a while. We do have 30 people on payroll. They're all part time. New classes at the rec center. Tonight
started our 5K training class. I see you're all here so you're obviously not at the class. Kickboxing,
yoga, pilates and cooking classes for children also have really taken off in the last year.
Berg: What are pilates?
Marek: It's kind of a Hollywood fitness trend. Joseph Pilates was a researcher on physical fitness and
tends to do, it's exercising where you tend to do yoga like poses that you hold them for a long period of
time and you're working on strengthening the core muscles in your body rather than the specific, ann or
leg muscles. So you're working on stomach, back, chest. That kind of stuff.
Lash: Okay, does anybody have any questions or comments for Susan?
6
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
Moes: Just a couple questions here. Are the 198 or $200,000 of expenses for 2000. That's comparable
to the $250,000 budget that was put together for 2000. Is that the same?
Marek: We are going to come in under budget when the final numbers come in.
Moes: Right, but I'm looking at the back side of this which is the budget of $250,000 for expenses and
then the actual was $200,000.
Marek: Correct. Correct. $37,000 of that difference that you see there is a utility bill that came in late.
Annual utility bill.
Hoffman: That will get you closer Dave.
Moes: So that will get us up there, okay.
Marek: See how that kind of gets you right up there next to where we budgeted.
Moes: No, that's fine because the second question.
Marek: It will come in less than what we budgeted but I'm not much.
Moes: Okay, then the second question was, is if you came in at $200,000, what was having you project
$240,000 for 2001, but that utility bill gets it up there. That takes care of it, okay. Thank you.
Manders: I had asked the question about this variance this year being something like $33,000. What has
past years, so how has this variance, I assume it's getting smaller and smaller between revenues and
expenses. .~
Marek: Actually that is the case. It is getting smaller and smaller. Also what happened in the last year is
many of our self supporting programs that we run from the rec center and that I am responsible for were
moved into a separate account. And what that does is, if my self supporting program is even better than
self supporting, and in fact profitable, that money is now all in a separate account. So you're not seeing
the benefit of some of those programs in this report. In the past we have included that in rec center funds
so that just changed in the last year. Despite the fact that those monies are now separated out, indeed the
difference is still closing. And it has to do with our fitness offerings.
Manders: So this would actually be smaller if you included those numbers you're saying?
Marek: Correct.
Manders: Very much or?
Marek: Well the one program that would make the big difference would be our preschool sports program
that we contract with the Y, and that would probably add between I'm going to say I0 to $20,000. Profit.
Manders: That makes pretty small numbers out of that.
Marek: Right.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
Franks: Have revenues increased yearly? I mean I'm just seeing this year's revenue numbers.
Marek: You're just seeing this year's, yes. If we were looking at the history of it, absolutely.
Franks: Instead I'm looking at your last few years of expenses. They're decreasing in some cases. Same
comment as Jim. Are we seeing revenues on the increase and expenses on the decrease?
Marek: Right. Revenues are increasing because you know certainly the word has gotten out there about
the rec center. More people are taking advantage of our fitness offerings and we've also expanded our
fitness offerings. So we're getting more people in there in the areas that bring in money. Now I think
that that's self limiting. People come to our facility. Our classes are full or the fitness room is busy.
That becomes sort of self limiting so we may be approaching the end of that kind of growth in some of
our fitness offerings. The reason that the expenses are declining is because we've changed some staffing
procedures at the rec center in that I work with 25% less staff over the summer months than I do over the
winter months. 2 years ago we'd keep the same staffing level on...simply cut back on labor in the
summer and that's the biggest decrease that you see in expenses.
Karlovich: Is 2 machines enough? I guess I had a question for that. I was in there once and I thought
some of those machines were kind of old.
Marek: I don't disagree with that. The plan that I've put forward is from beginning this year and
continuing each year thereafter, 2 machines will be added and/or replaced so it's an Ongoing capital
investment in our fitness room so each year 2 more will change over.
Manders: So it's pick which machine you want to replace and that type of thing?
Marek: Exactly. Any comments on what you'd like to see there?
Franks: I'm seeing that the dance program is about 28% of your income. Fitness about 43%. Most of
the revenues are coming from those two big, most of the revenues are coming from those two programs
and I'm wondering about, with room rentals only being 14% but the largest area of space being set aside
for the community rooms, I'm just wondering if it's time to start considering reallocating how we utilize
our programming space. So I mean if we expand the fitness operation into more space, you know is it
possible to significantly expand the revenue?
Marek: My opinion is yes we can do that. And I think that it would positively affect the revenues.
However we need to understand that our meeting rooms are there for more than making money. Our
meeting rooms are there as a place for the community to meet. The vast majority of rentals we have at
the rec center are non-paying rentals. They're the Cub Scouts and the Girl Scouts and church groups.
Youth athletic associations. The vast majority of these are free rental so you're right, we're using a lot of
square footage and it's not generating a lot of revenue but we also need to balance that with the value we
place on having our meeting place in our community.
Berg: Might it be a good idea to look at this when the library gets on board and once we get an idea of
what the library's going to look like. That might replace some of those meetings, from what I understand
too.
Franks: I guess I'm just thinking too that, is there a way to increase square foot of like the fitness
operation without decreasing the number of meeting spaces available. Is it necessary to have a smaller
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
fitness are and larger meeting rooms, or larger fitness area and smaller meeting rooms. So I'm just
putting that out there as a question, seeing where the money's coming from.
Hoffman: The issue you run into there is anytime you're talking some significant capital.
Franks: Capital expense.
Hoffman: To make it happen and so are you really gaining ground.
Karlovich: Those are permanent walls, right?
Hoffman: Yeah. Tae Kwan Do is also a fitness program which utilizes the gymnasium and the meeting
rooms and so there are some fitness offerings that are taking advantage of that space. But again the vast
majority is being utilized for no charge. Gymnasium and meeting rooms.
Manders: I mean even along that line, the question I would ask is if the meeting areas, even if they're
free, are they being fully utilized? If they're not, maybe they need to meet at less opportune time.
They're getting it free anyway and make use of the space as part of the fitness.
Marek: Interesting that you bring that up, as I just left the rec center where we were changing over all 4
rooms having back to back meetings in each room tonight. We have not gone a night without having the
rooms filled. A weeknight mind you. Monday through Thursday actually. It really in the last 2 years,
it's been real tight. Even during the day rentals have been a little tight and Jerry's run into a couple of
meetings he's tried to schedule, so I think it's really changed in the last year and a half that we're turning
a lot of people away in the rental game.
Franks: I'm glad to hear that because I think it had been my perception that those rooms weren't really
being utilized for rentals, but I guess what we're hearing is they're not necessarily being rentals, but
they're being used.
Marek: Correct. It is not a paying rental.
Franks: Thanks for the clarification.
Marek: Yes. And also sometimes if you are at the rec center and you do come between noon and 4:00,
you're right. You're not going to see much activity. It's dead quiet during that time. But stop in around
7:30 any night of the week.
Manders: So in terms of a goal as far as the city or park and rec, I know we're striving for at least a
break even but maybe not. Are we striving for like 10-20% less than, so that we're dishing out x number
of dollars for this benefit to the city? And what is that, our goal is for this program?
Hoffman: The last we left it with the city council is a % meet expenses % of the way. That has not
changed. It's been, no directive or recommendation to the commission to change that.
Lash: Any other questions for Susan? Okay. Thanks Susan.
PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
9
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Gregory: Good evening. This year the park and trail report that I got to you and that has got a lot of
statistical reports with it. We have covered quite a bit of ground here in the past few months and I
wanted to briefly go through some of those with you and let you know what we found. The first one has
our skating rink season. This year ended up to be our second longest since I have been keeping records
with the park system here. We ran 82 days of useable ice compared to the year before we only had 60
days. The first report that you have in your packet was one that was put together by Corey Hoen and that
is basically the numbers of adults and kids using all of the skating rinks where we have wanning houses.
So it would be the Rec Center, the City Center, Bluff Creek and Roundhouse and it indicates the number
of people that were using, or number of people that use those rinks. And those are going to be a little bit
better numbers and it's simply because they are open at nights... The second report that I put together,
and this is the first year we've put this report together. We had a lot of, the maintenance people and the
park people and that that I have worked on that are talking about parks and the trails. Or the skating rinks
that don't get used very much and from time to time we're out sweeping and flooding them and there's
absolutely no indication of use so this year we tried something new and we put the report papers in the
tractors and had them fill out when they go and sweep them and how much they were used. And it's
going to vary a little bit because the family rinks and that, the outside family rinks are only swept every 3
days, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So the numbers, and they also forgot a few times. But some of
the interesting ones in that are like Pheasant Hills which is a family one and that. Out of 13 times being
checked, there's 11 times where they absolutely had no use on those rinks. And that's no skating marks.
No snow on the rinks, no nothing. Carver Beach is another one that had no heavy use. 3 times light use
and 8 times no use at all. Meadow Green, which surprises me a lot, out of 10 times being checked and
that, it never had any use at all. So I don't know, when you start looking at the amount of money that we
put in to all these skating rinks, and we do have a report that goes along with this with costs, and maybe
this is just a benchmark to start with and that we want to keep going on these and trying to keep records
on them but maybe it's better offto try to put more into certain areas with decent wanning houses,
hockey rinks and that and having more use, than all the family rinks where we get very little use on them.
If anybody has any questions as we go, feel free to jump in. Third one I got going along with the skating
rinks and that is our cost for the year. I started this a couple years ago and tried to keep it up pretty close.
This year the total cost for skating rinks was roughly $33,800. And like I said, that was due to the long
year this year. 82 years of actual use. And if you break that down, that's $412 a day, which was actually
cheaper than the year before when we had 60 days. It ended up to be $456 a day. That's pretty much it
on the skating rinks, if anybody, like I say, if anybody has any questions.
Manders: Can I ask, do you have any sense of how much these cost dollars might be reduced if for
example, looking at your earlier chart of zero usage or light usage.
Gregory: If we were to take those rinks out?
Manders: Yeah. If you took some of those out of there, how much impact would that have on your
numbers?
Gregory: I guess I don't have any numbers that I could really give you for that. Basically like our
overtime when we're flooding nights and everything else, we have 2 trucks out. We have 2 different
routes and they basically hit every rink. They'll hit the wanning houses once and then they'll go out and
hit the other family rinks once and then they'll come back and hit the wanning houses again and just keep
going that way. I really don't have a cost that I could give you on that by cutting out any of these rinks.
At this point.
Manders: Guesstimate kind of thing. Would it be a small, pretty small impact or?
10
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Hoffman: There's a pretty strong correlation between the actual number, units of what you're producing.
So if you just add up all the rinks you're producing, if you cut it by 20% your costs are going to go down
not exactly 20% but there's a strong correlation there. And then again it's an opportunity cost. It's not
that those dollars are, except the overtime hours, but those dollars would be invested somewhere else in
the park system during that time of year. Those individuals would be off doing other tasks within the city
so the one, when we look at Meadow Green at very little or no use at all, it's simply because we have
City Center so close and consumers are choosing to come up to a rink where they have both hockey and
open skate and a heated warming house. So if you look at maximization of resources, maximizing the
resources, if we can locate both hockey and open skate and warming house and lights at specific
locations, I think we get the most bang for our buck.
Gregory: Basically the way we run our maintenance on our rinks right now is all the rinks that have
warming houses are swept and flooded every day. And the ones that do not have warming houses are
taken care of on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays. And again, that's where the numbers are
considerably smaller for being checked on those because we only check them 3 times a week. I mean
you would definitely see a savings in that by cutting out those rinks if you were to do it.
Lash: I tried to do some kind of fuzzy math here and I don't know if it makes, if this would even. You
tell me if this seems logical. I took how much you said it costs a day to operate the rinks and I count
about 15 rinks so I divided the daily cost by 15, just to get a rough idea per rink. That's $27 per rink so if
we cut the 5 Iow rinks, that'd be $135 per day.
Gregory: It would probably vary a little bit because like I say, the 5 that have the warming houses,
hockey rinks and that actually get more attention and it takes us longer, shoveling out hockey rinks and
everything else. They're taken care of every day. Again, where the family rinks are only every third day
so it's probably not going to be quite that much per day but you're probably getting closer.
Lash: Still it could be $100 a day. And depending on how long the season is, if it's 60 days, that was
last year. This year 80 some days so.
Berg: I'm doing some quick math too and I think it's time we start perhaps taking a hard look at a lot of
things with ice skating. I'm looking at City Center for example, which seems to have the most usage for
pleasure skating. I mean that's averaging out to 6 skaters a day. That's not what I'd call good use of our
money to be providing this kind of service for 6 people a day. And that's the most cost efficient of all of
the pleasure rinks that I'm seeing anyway.
Hoffman: Outdoor recreation in the winter is decreasing over time due to the other activities that mainly
children and parents have available to them. It's something I've struggled with on a philosophical
thought process for a number of years. You'd like to think you're putting good money into these services
and they're going to be used but year after year you watch them go unused. There's certainly Friday,
Saturday, Sunday usage is higher. These numbers are not fail safe. These rink attendants can only be
expected to quantify so many things for you so bear that in mind as well.
Gregory: The one thing you don't see on the, like on the family rinks, the numbers here, are for January,
February and March. The numbers are indicated on here, the light use and everything else were pretty
much in January right, or December when the rinks were opened. The family rinks started. It seems like
the kids all come out and they want to skate for a month. Middle of January and that it's pretty wearing
off and like from the middle of January on through February and that is when we get the no uses at ail.
11
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
Karlovich: I think kind of the reality that we're seeing here is that in our kind of, maybe a little bit
spoiled society and the unfortunate thing that most parents feel the need to watch their kids all the time.
It's not like the old days where you walked down to the rink and put your skates on and played for a
while. I think our children, and even my children are driven to a rink and the parents want to go to a rink
where there's a warming house and hot chocolate and some place to warm up in. Then if there's hockey
boards, that's for the hockey people. That's where the activity is. It's just, you can't even let your kids
just walk and be at a park these days by themselves a lot of times so, it's kind of unfortunate.
Berg: I guess I'd like to see us look at this on another day and really hard. Have some good, serious
discussion about if we want to continue this.
Manders: Next year when we're talking about replacing older rinks, this should factor into it.
Franks: When do you put in the orders for the warming houses?
Ruegemer: Typically you put them on kind of reserve type of basis in July. But that's flexible.
Franks: Oh, that's flexible.
Gregory:. Second topic I've got is kind of an exciting one for myself and that is the construction of the
park maintenance building. It's moving along very well. The building is up and actually they're pouring
the concrete inside yesterday and today. They're planning on pouring every day this week to get that
poured. They've got it insulated. The metal siding is on the inside. The brick is on the outside, a lot of
it and it's really starting to look good and I tell you the park staff is really excited. We're just kind of
itching to get in there and be able to start setting things up and that so. That's a very good sign. In fact I
was driving by it today... '~
Lash: Are we planning on planting some trees along there or something?
Hoffman: There's a very extensive planting.
Gregory: A lot of trees and a lot of flowers and different things that will be around, planted around that.
Hoffman: Can you tell there's a building there Jan?
Lash: Yeah. You don't miss it. That's why I thought maybe some trees might break it up a little bit.
Gregory: The next one I had is our irrigation system at Lake Susan. This year and that with the early
freeze up and the heavy snows right off the bat I made a decision that we were going to put the irrigation
system in early, which we did do. We got all of our articles in the paper and everything else. We got the
system in already and January 23~d is when we put it in. Our numbers and everything, we're really in
good shape and that yet at that point. The DNR, we worked real closely with Dave Gilbraith. He comes
out once or twice a month. He does oxygen tests and we kind of compare each other. And we're in real
good shape. He said we really didn't need to at that time but I felt we wanted to get it in and get it started
running. Everything went fine. We did have the numbers started to go down. They kept going down a
little bit anyway and that. They're going to go down. We did have trouble on February 19th. The shaft
broke on the pump so we were down for about 4 days, 5 days. We were going to get a part in for it. We
have it ordered. It was going to take about 2 weeks. We went up to Waconia and found, there's an old
12
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
guy up there that does machining and that and he machined us a shaft so we got it back in about 5 days.
But what it did do, it continued to go down through the whole season there and at the point of March 16th,
and you don't have these numbers right now. There I got from my foreman today. On March 16th we
were down to like a 2.6 oxygen at 6 feet. The DNR is saying that's getting real close that you can start to
have die out, especially with bass. We kept talking with him. He kept calling back. He said have you
seen any fish at the hole yet. We never did. And there's no real hard core numbers and rules except he
said we were getting real close. A week later we took tests again. Water started melting. Water starting
running in. We were up to 4.3% so we're really in good shape. We're up to 5% now so the way it looks,
I mean we shouldn't, we might, like they indicated, you might see a couple bass or something around and
that but we've seen nothing at the hole or we didn't see anything to indicate...but it definitely was a
close year this year for, so you might look at this year for our aeration system. I would say we've
probably kept it, it saved them for this year.
Howe: Good job putting it in. It was a good idea.
Lash: That's making the assumption there's some fish in the lake because we know there's not.
Gregory: Well we looked at the last year we...the same thing happened and that, I mean we got an early
freeze up. We had a lot of snow and everything else and we started to get, the numbers started going
down and Dean Schmieg, my foreman. He's really good. He takes weekly reports and he's down there
every week the same day taking samples and that so, like I say, we just decided early enough that we
were going to get them in and get a head start on it this year which really worked out good for us.
Manders: Do you take readings on any of the other lakes?
Gregory:
and that.
problems
Susan all
No we don't. We did one year. We started doing them at Lake Ann too. The oxygen levels
They were so high, they just stayed up all year and they're'such a good, it's a deeper lake. No
and that. And so we didn't really keep going on that so we just, we basically keep it at Lake
the time.
Manders: Okay.
Gregory: And the last one I've got on the list is the wood duck house inspection. The guys just went out
the other day and went around and checked all of our wood duck houses. This year we have a total of 35.
We added 5 more in the Lake Susan area this past year for 2000. And our numbers are going down and I
really don't have a reason for that. In '94 when we started the numbers were high and they went down
for 4 years and then they jumped back up to 71 and I don't know if we're just on the same cycle going
down for another year or so and then coming up but I mean, I'm not that familiar with wood ducks and
their habits and that so, but we are down 46% this year. And I think that's pretty much all I had unless
you have any questions.
Lash: Anybody have any questions? For Dale? No? Okay, thanks Dale.
ROUNDHOUSE PARK, ROUNDHOUSE PAVILION RENOVATION.
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
13
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Lash: Okay. Why don't we just go down the line and see what people's reactions are to each of the
ideas. And we might be able to just eliminate some through that process and then focus on the ones that
maybe we think might bear more exploration. Do you have any ideas Jim?
Manders: Well there's some of them I think are pretty obvious that this, enlisting a neighborhood
brigade thing, I don't see that as probably happening, or this college thing is probably not going to
happen. And the demolishing option I guess is certainly a possibility but I don't think that's what we
want to view at this point. To me I think we could probably narrow this down to 3 or 4 possibilities and
focus on those.
Lash: Do you have 3 or 4?
Manders: I haven't really identified them but just kind of cruising through this, that's what I think we'd
end up with.
Hoffman: You're getting close already with what you've listed.
Lash: Okay, we'll come back to you. Jay, you got any ideas?
Karlovich: I think one of the options should be kind of spending the money that we initially
recommended and doing it right and actually spending the money on historic preservation. Otherwise,
and how much was that again? I know we were up.
Lash: What'd we say, 1257
Hoffman: In the original budget or the original contract amount?
Karlovich: What the commission wanted to do last time with the clear coating and going totally forward
with the project.
Hoffman: Yeah, the council said they wouldn't do that and they asked you to consider other options.
Karlovich: Okay. Did they definitely say that was not an option or they just wanted us to look at other
options?
Hoffman; I don't know. They weren't highly in favor. Who was at that meeting?
Howe: I was. I don't think you're going to get them to go for $125,000. Just my impression. I thought
we were lucky to come out of that meeting with them kicking it back to us. I mean I thought, you know
for a while there ! thought they were going to tell us to take it down but, who was here? You were
here...come up with another plan but I don't think 125 is going to get by them. That's my opinion.
Lash: Okay.
Hoffman: And if it was, they asked that the neighborhood...come up with the money.
Karlovich: Well my opinion on the options should be, do nothing doesn't even seem like a real viable
option. Either demolish the round house, option number 2. Option number 4, build the Eden Prairie type
park shelter, or option number 3 would maybe spend up to the $50,000 and just do the exterior and the
14
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
roof and try to save money on the interior and possibly do the interior as a second phase. I'll pass along
the microphone.
Lash: Okay. Fred, do you have anything you'd like to say?
Berg: Sure.
Lash: Okay.
Berg: I'm not going to go over this though. I guess I'd sort of be in favor of looking at a hybrid of 3 and
4. I don't, after all this time I guess I just can't see doing nothing or demolishing it. And I don't think
the others are practical. 5 through 8. It just doesn't seem to be workable. If someone comes forward, we
can look at it but I don't see that happening. I guess I'd like to look at trying to lessen the cost as Jay
correctly pointed out, an Eden Prairie type shelter. Maybe we can find a middle ground there. To me it's
always been preservation of the building first and if it was workable, that was great. And if it was
something that was functional I mean, that was frosting on the cake. I'm not at this point going to go into
my diatribe about historical buildings again. I'll hold off on that preaching to the choir I think. At this
point I'd like to see us do something where we can save the building, and what will be acceptable to the
neighborhood and of course the City Council is what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for some sort of
compromise to save the building but to also provide, even to an outpost like this area, some sort of park
shelter. That's all.
Lash: Okay. I just made a note by each one so I can go right down the list. Number 1. Just sort of
cracks me up because where else but in government would you do nothing and it would still cost you
$1,500. So I mean I just read that. Do nothing. $1,500.
Hoffman: Okay, it should say put up a fence.
Lash: So no, I'm not interested in spending $1,500 to do nothing. And I don't, you know we've been in
this for the long haul so at this point I guess I'm not willing to sell out yet and do complete demolition so
I wouldn't want to see that happen. Even the complete minimum improvements doesn't do it much for
me because in the end we're still just, well it will look somewhat better than it does now but the windows
are boarded up. It's still going to look relatively tacky, plus it will be not usable for anything so I don't
know that we really gain a whole lot other than we maybe get rid of the lead based paint but. And I
really don't want to see the post and slab park shelter there. I thought that we were trying to make an
effort at providing something unique to this particular park because we had given it a lot of character.
This would add a lot more to it. I'd like to at least hold a neighborhood meeting and see if there's any
viable chance at number 5. Not necessarily for them to do the whole thing. I don't see that as working,
plus there's so many things there that I don't think the average handyman, we want to have them tackle
asbestos and lead based paint. Which leads me more to the number 6 where maybe it'd be a
combination. Maybe the residents, they put in the playground equipment. They wanted that in so maybe
if there's a group of them who are willing to come and help with some of the things that they can do and
then with some staff'and then with a local contractor, maybe we could get a good start on it, and I'd like
to then find out if we went down that road, and say we spent the $50,000 and it wasn't quite done, is that
something then a year or two down the road we couldn't go back and spend a little bit more to finish it?
Or would it be $50,000 for the project or is it $50,000 a year? What is that law or whatever you have.
How does that work? The new law.
15
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Hoffman: It's per endeavor or project. If it doesn't get done, you can certainly go back and invest
additional dollars. But it's, the intent of the law cannot be over and you split this project in two
intentionally. We're going to do it in 2 years to stay underneath the minimum.
Lash: And we wouldn't have to attack it from that way. We could attack it from we'd like to try to get it
all done for this amount, but if in the end we only get the exterior done and maybe the interior somewhat
you know something. Even if the interior's not usable, but with the idea that potentially we could go
back and try to wrap it up at minimal cost. Or maybe with some more volunteer labor to finish the inside.
I don't know. So I'd be leaning more towards number 6. Yeah, 7 is out obviously. 8, there's no way
we're going to raise $40,000. Plus the city isn't supposed to be in the business of fund raising. Isn't that
what we were told? So I kind of liked Jay's idea of ultimately the total package, but trying to do it in a
more cost efficient way by combining lots of different talents, which would be number 6. That'd be my
first choice. Rod.
Franks: I would like to see proposals 3, 4, 5 and 6 presented at a neighborhood meeting to anybody who
cares to show up. I think we're at a point where, you know the park is designed to have a structure at that
spot, and so the one that's there, to do nothing, that's not acceptable. And then to tear it down and not
replace it with anything is not acceptable and 7 and 8just aren't going to work soo But I would like the
rest of them presented to the neighborhood or any of the public that chooses to come so they'd have
something to work with to comment on.
Manders: So in terms of 4, you're saying that as an alternative if they want to say forget about it and put
up some type of pole.
Franks: Yep. I think that if we're going to have a public meeting and we're going to invite the public to
comment, we should really make an effort to inform them of what the options are, even the ones that
maybe we as a body aren't particularly fond of. But I mean if we're'going to invite their input, let's
really invite it.
Hoffman: Well a number of them have provided that viewpoint.
Franks: Already.
Lash: See and my fear, I understand and I actually I agree. I agree that we need to do that. My fear of
course is that so many of the people who live out there and those obviously will be the people who come
to the meeting, have lived out there for 6 months or a year or whatever, maybe don't have any
appreciation whatsoever for this landmark because they haven't lived here this long and the time that
they have lived here, it's been an eyesore. You know something falling down that they would just as
soon have a ceremonial bonfire just to get rid of it. But in the end, we're charged with representing the
public and if they all come in and tell us they want it burned down, then that's what we have to do.
Karlovich: Todd, we have $80,000 budgeted but that's not one of our options. It seems like, why is that?
Can't we let a contract for 80?
Hoffman: No. $50,000 or less.
Moes: You have to go out to bid. You have to go out to bid over 50, right?
16
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
Hoffman: Correct. Which we did and we ended up with a cost of $124,000 due to the packaging of all
the process that goes along with a public bid. If we did not get backyard contractors to bid this thing, we
received bids from multi-million dollar companies that do much larger jobs. The only reason they bid it
is because it was the way it was packaged and that's due to the public bidding laws so, actually I think we
can get $80,000 worth of work for $50,000 just by working, taking a few of the local contractors out
there and saying give us a quote for what you can get done for 50 grand.
Karlovich: But what I was saying, can we get bids on, what can you get done for $80,000.
Hoffman: No.
Lash: No, because the law says you can only go to 50.
Hoffman: For quotes.
Karlovich: For quotes.
Hoffman: Public bidding, and if we look at it, we've invested $15,000-$20,000 to date and so we're,
even though we have 80 we're, if we spend 50 on the project and include those costs, we're right back up
to 80. The council is aware of that. That 80.
Lash: Okay, are you done Rod?
Franks: I'm done, thank you.
Lash: Okay, Dave.
Moes: For a public meeting, following Rod's comments, options 3, 4, 5 and 6 1 think are appropriate to
at least present to them for discussion. One thing that goes through my mind is, in selecting an option is
that you attack the project once and finish it once versus over an extended period of time. Just do it, you
know moving into the project and then completing it because I think if you go over a span of years you
may lose the interest or the initial input that some of the people have so I think it's critical that as we
have the discussion, that we look at it as, starting the project once and completing it once so that it's done
in a crisp time frame and so that people understand when the end product will be available and what that
end product will be. I think that just needs to be brought up at the session.
Lash: Okay. Mike.
Howe: Not much to add. I sense from what we're talking about, and I know my opinion is I want to save
the thing if we can save it at all. That would be my overriding concern. And in that regard I still think
you have to have a neighborhood meeting and knowing that I think we want to save it, you may not hear
what you want to hear at that meeting. If you didn't hear what you thought you might hear and if the
neighborhood wants it torn down, maybe there's a way to save some of that, the Douglas fir that, I mean
the architect talked about that so lovingly. About how rare that wood was and how beautiful it was.
Maybe there's a way, and you know more about this than I do but when you tore something like that
down, could you save parts of it, if that's what ultimately we're going to do and use them for benches in
a pavilion or whatever and say well this was from the old round house, so maybe there's a way if it goes
against what we want to say well the benches you're sitting on were part of the old round house that you
lived here a year and nobody knew about but you're sitting on them. That's one. Two, I think as far as,
17
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
we talk about a neighborhood doing the work on it. If you played this right, I think this has city wide
appeal. Some of the e-mails that were both, that were pro and con that we got. Some of the pro's I think
are from people that didn't necessarily live near Kings Road. There's a lot of guys I know in my
neighborhood who would love a project like that, and maybe again, and maybe I'm dreaming, lumber and
some of those things you could work and get some of it donated. I think we need specialists to take down
the lead paint, but I think I'd climb a ladder and put a coat of seal on that. It might not look professional
but we did it ourselves and that's how you can do it so, I think there's some city wide appeal in having it
done with the project. But my overriding concern is I'd like to keep it in some way so I'm probably a 5
or 6.
Lash: Okay, Jim. I'm going to come back to you. Did you get your thoughts clarified at all?
Manders: In terms of the options, certainly the numbers, when you say 3 or 4, it's pretty easy to arrive at
those if you start excluding the demolition and the do nothing options. And so looking at the 3, and
depending on how we want to approach 4, 5 and 6, I think those are obviously the ones that come to
mind.
I guess the one question I have in terms of council reaction, and I know this is a whole debate about
whether you're supposed to be responding to what council says or not, but what kind of response did they
have to the architect's comments, glowing remarks about the facility? Or did they even see this?
Hoffman: Oh sure...
Manders: Was there any particular feeling about that or?
Hoffman: Not that I recall.
Berg: Nothing that stands out in my mind.
Manders: Basically a dollars and cents kind of decision.
Howe: A warming hut. What's it really going to be used for? Can they use it in the summer? Those
kinds of things. If we redid it, what kind of use are we going to get out of it anyway? If we spent the
money. Those kinds of things what they kicked around.
Hoffman: The architect was present. Gave a presentation and then it came down to utility versus cost.
Karlovich: Is it worthwhile getting into, I've heard the debate back and forth as to whether this is truly a
historical site or not or is it a goofy building? I don't know if that's something we should be touching
upon.
Hoffman; It's not a historical structure.
Karlovich: But in the minds of the commission, do they think it's historical or something that is a
Chanhassen landmark or do we even want to go there.
Franks: I don't think there's any doubt that the round house is a Chanhassen landmark. I mean that's
totally clear I think but it's understanding what it's value is I think, and we have a different perspective
maybe of what that landmark means to this city.
18
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Hoffman: There's been some discussion bantered around Old St. Hubert's in that regard. The city does
not have a historical ordinance. Old St. Hubert's is not a historical structure. It is a city landmark similar
to the round house. These structures do not have special protection. It's not...to that degree of
protection.
Berg: But because we haven't assigned a plaque to it that says the National Historical Preservation
Society doesn't recognize it as such, doesn't mean that it isn't historical. It may not be recognized as
such, but as far as Chanhassen is concerned, the round house is historical. St. Hubert's is historical. The
school house that they stole is historical. The train depot is historical. It's part of our history.
Hoffman: Don't disagree.
Lash: Well and that is all in the eye of the beholder. People who have only lived here for a year or 2 or 3
or 5, maybe have no appreciation for those things. You know they could care less if it was torn down and
we could put up a Lund's.
Berg: That's why I'm hopeful that a lot of people will show up for the community meeting. So we can
educate a little bit too.
Lash: I'd say at a minimum we should invite anyone who responded with an e-mail and then any other
residents I suppose that are within whatever the.
Hoffman: Yeah, we mailed to the entire west side of the lake and then we'll also put the press release
that the commission asked about in the paper so if there's other people. An article came out shortly after
the last council action as well so it's been receiving a significant amount of press.
Lash: So is that narrowed down? Do you want a motion on things that you'd like us to, no? Do you
pretty much know what we want to do? Alright. Thanks.
Berg: I'm not trying to kill the messenger.
Hoffman: No. Heaven's no.
RECREATION PROGRAMS. EASTER EGG CANDY HUNT AND COLORING CONTEST
UPDATE.
Lash: Anybody have anything on the Easter Egg hunt?
Ruegemer: A specific question for you. Do you want to judge the coloring contest?
Lash: What's the date on it again?
Ruegemer: 14th.
Lash: No.
Ruegemer: Okay, thank you.
19
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Lash: Okay, you're welcome.
SELF-SUPPORTING PROGRAMS. SPRING 3 ON 3 BASKETBALL.
Ruegemer: Any questions?
Berg: Have a good time.
Lash: Say Dale, do you have any guys on your crew that would be just biting at the bit to work on the
round house?
Gregory:. If you polled my department, it'd be opposite of what you're saying. They don't feel it's worth
the amount of money that was already put into it for what you're going to get out of it.
Lash: Okay, never mind.
Berg: That was Dale Gregory offthe record. Have a nice night.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
Lash: Hey, is anything else happening with Memorial Park?
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: What?
Hoffman: Refining those plans. Including that in the budget discussions with the City Council for 2002.
Lash: Okay, great. Any other committees?
Ruegemer: lfI may just interject a quick second. I'll give a little update on the Huffman Run. Ken
Garvin and myself did meet with a representative from the Viking's organization to see how they could
participate better in the 5K Run. It looks like the Vikings are willing to do quite a bit of advertising for
us. We can have a table and pass out information in the plaza before the home games prior to the race.
They're going to do advertising on the score board during the Vikings games. It sounded like they are
willing to put a link from the Vikings home page to our home page providing information. It sounds like
we'd get into the game day publications. Put information in that so it sounds like there's a lot of
opportunities that they're willing to do.
Lash: Are they willing to provide free tickets for commissioners?
Ruegemer: Well we haven't gotten to that point yet but.
Lash: Or anyone involved.
Ruegemer:. I'm not sure ifthere'd be any monetary...Red McCombs did a, he said, they say a sizeable
donation to the Huffman fund after Dave had passed for the kids and that sort of thing so, I think we can
get some small product type of thing or suckers for the bags too so, we're in good shape.
20
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Karlovich: I think Red McCombs, at least there's a big source there. Our company, our firm supported
an adopt a classroom and our receptionist sent him a request for a donation and they authorized and sent
back a handwritten note and you just wonder how many hundreds of those he gets a day. I was just
amazed by his community involvement.
Ruegemer: They're also contacting the alumni that still live in the area that played with Dave, about in
that era. Sounds like Leo Lewis is interested in running the race and participating that day and other
people so, Boom Boom Brown and Carl Eller and a lot of those types of people so.
Lash: They'll be with us.
Berg: No, they'll we with the woman that we lost 100 yards ahead of us.
Lash: That really old lady?
Berg: Yeah.
Howe: That's nice Jerry.
Lash: That's exciting. Well that was kind of what we were kind of hoping would evolve.
Ruegemer: I think they were embarrassed with their involvement last year so.
Howe: They should have been, on the record.
Ruegemer: So they're looking to redeem themselves. · Thank you Mike for your help on that too.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS.
Lash: Who would I again, this is probably about the tenth year in a row that I've brought up composting
and is that something we could pass on a suggestion to the Environmental Committee? Commission that
they should look into composting site. Not just a dumping site and then having to haul it somewhere
else. Don't know where it would be but that would be a fine project for them.
Hoffman: Okay, consider it done.
Lash: Anybody else anything?
Manders: I guess this conflict of interest form that there was something talked about. Are we supposed
to turn those in?
Hoffman: Thank you.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Lash: Do you want to start with your additions?
Hoffman: No...on the items that were presented.
21
Park and Rec Commission Meeting- March 27, 2001
Lash: So Steve Labatt is our liaison, correct?
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: So will he only be coming to meetings that he thinks there's something that we might need
assistance for or, what do you think is the.
Hoffman: I would think he'll come to any meeting that he's available for.
Lash: Did you meet with the Stone Creek people on the playground and that's moving forward.
Hoffman: Yep. Mike Howe and I met and we're meeting again to review the plan that the vendor's
going to present April 12th I think it is.
Lash: Are they planning on doing installation?
Hoffman: Yep.
Lash: Okay. Maybe we could ask them to work on the round house.
Howe: I'm sure they would. I'm serious about that.
Lash: Anybody else have anything on the packet? I see Fred and Jim are up for reappointment. Again,
these seniors, wow. They have fun. I can't wait. They do have fun.
Manders: One question I have on this shell synopsis thing. This is fine to have this in there but I guess
what I'd like to see is how does this differ at all from last time. Or for future.
Ruegemer-' About 200 shells more than last year.
Manders: So if they do this next year, to have a comparison and say okay, this is what we had last year.
We paid x number of dollars. This is what we have next year if we pay x number of dollars more or less
and that' s what you get for it.
Lash: What are you talking about?
Franks: The fireworks display.
Manders: Because that's really the question is, are they giving us the same bang for the buck.
Hoffman: The complexities in that type of comparison are so varied that, you'd like to think that you
could make an honest comparison but the real value here is between the customers of Chanhassen and the
providers because all they have to do is change where the shell is made. What kind of powder is packed
in it. The size of it. The quality.
Ruegemer: Import taxes is a big thing. Import and export taxes.
Manders: So you just kind of go with your heart and say okay, give us your best deal.
22
Park and Rec Commission Meeting -March 27, 2001
Hoffman: Give us a good show. If you don't, you get the axe...
Manders: Alright.
Moes: This is about the 20 minute show, right? Roughly.
Lash: Okay, Todd so what did you have?
Hoffman: Update on commission application and appointment process. Jay was appointed Monday, last
night to the Planning Commission so we have another vacancy. He's moving on.
Lash: I wish this round house thing was going to get passed onto the Planning Commission.
Hoffman: There you are. We could try that. And so we have 3 vacancies. 2 applications. Fred and
another gentleman from the city. Extended the deadline from March 29th to April 5th and contacted all
the past applicants in the past 2 or 3 years and council will interview folks probably the middle of April.
Other than that, July I've scheduled from 6:00 to 7:00 a tour of the Waconia facility. Fourth Tuesday of
July, 6:00 to 7:00 so we'll meet probably here and carpool out. Depending how people feel. If they want
to meet in Waconia and come back. We'll take a look at that facility. Toured the Inver Grove Heights
brand new community center. Addition to their, they have an armory, a double set of hockey sheets and
then city hall and then they added a $10 million addition. Very similar to Chaska. Same architect, just a
little different feel. They didn't go with carpet because of some budget concerns but they have the pool.
Three pools and all the other amenities so I was surprised they, we went over there for a meeting. I
didn't know the facility was completely all decked out, but nice facility. Financing, upfront capital costs
out of some bond sales from garbage receipts. They have two landfills in town and then, which they
don't own them but they ticket charges and then the long term debt is being paid by the school district
and a cooperative agreement through the use of the pools. They're receiving 270 some thousand. In the
early years up to about $360,000 and in later years to pay off the debt on the project. Nice facility. Neat
to see. And City Council and staff are working on a community survey. 80 questions .... randomly 400
households in the community. Take about 15 to 20 minute survey. Their refusal rate is about 4%. And
so if you have comments or ideas about the questions I would recommend that you contact the mayor or
council members on the content of that survey.
Lash: I know we talked about it at our joint meeting and they seemed not inclined to want to touch the
concept of the YMCA but it'd be nice if was one of the choices that people could have.
Hoffman: We're working at a couple of different areas on that. We're going to talk about facilities and
then also the Y has expressed interest in paying for questions specifically concerning the YMCA in town
so currently the YMCA folks are in conversation with buying a dozen questions. Paying the $1,200 and
then having those included as a part of the survey.
Berg: Serious business isn't it.
Lash: That makes sense, great. Okay, do you have anything else Todd? I know many years ago we did a
little walking tour of the Bluff Creek. The big gorge. How many people would be interested in seeing
that? Because I don't think there's anyone else here besides me. You weren't here were you Fred when
we did that?
23
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 27, 2001
Berg: I don't believe so.
Lash: It is something to see and it helps to gain a new perspective on why we want to keep it the way it
is and that type of thing so, but we don't want to go when it's too over grown or too buggy.
Hoffman: Second meeting in June. Second Tuesday in June might be a good option. After school. Right
after school is out.
Lash: How about even May.
Hoffman: May?
Lash: Well it gets, I think we even when the end of April before because it wasn't buggy and it wasn't
all totally overgrown. Yeah, maybe the snow will be gone.
Hoffman: Okay. I'll put some dates on your next agenda.
Lash: Okay, anything else? Anybody? Motion to adjourn.
Berg moved, Kariovieh seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
24