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1. Approval of MinutesCHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 25, 2001 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Rod Franks, Mike Howe, Dave Moes, Jay Karlovich, Tom Kelly, and Frank Spizale MEMBERS ABSENT: None. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; Susan Marek, Recreation Center Manager; and Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: A motion was made and seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated July 24, 2001 amended on page 7 to read: "Lash: Well I thought we shouldn't just completely eliminate any hope of some kind of shelter there." All voted in favor and the motion carried. REPORTS: RECREATION CENTER. Marek: Not much is new out at the Rec Center. Business has picked up. Of course you all know it is seasonal. Room rentals have increased greatly and at this point it's very difficult to get a room unless we look at some Tuesdays and Fridays. Every other night of the week I've got booked. So it's getting pretty tight for those non-profit organizations like Cub Scouts and church groups to sort of sneak in at the last minute. So I expect we may have some not so positive feedback from those groups of continuing to be denied space. So it's busy. Tonight I've got 5 separate meetings going on out there. Dance classes at our gymnasium. It's a very busy place. Those of you who had an opportunity to read the memo regarding staff changes out at the Rec Center and if you can follow that roadmap you're...but we obviously have quite a few staff changes in the next month or so. I think that's probably pretty good. It's been a long time. 3 ½ years. Looking forward to those changes. Child care has picked up so we're starting to get more participation in that, which of course we need to break even. And we'll come in right at break even again this year so that's looking good. And last Friday night we had 350 people attend the barn yard boogie. So I'm not sure, I don't think I saw any of you guys out there. Lash: I try to stay away from boogie. Franks: The barn yard thing got me. Marek: It is the one time during the year that you can actually find barn animals in the building. Hoffman: Baby lama show up? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Marek: The baby lama was not, they didn't want to bring the mother. Hoffman: What was in the building? Marek: A sheep and a goat and at one point we had the donkey and the Shetland pony in. Two rabbits, two roosters, a duck and a pig. Hoffman: And the kids are going wild. Marek: It was great. Moes: We have those on Halloween though too, don't we? Hoffman: And reindeer on Breakfast with Santa. Lash: Okay, anything else Susan? Marek: No, that's it. Lash: Okay, anybody have any questions for Susan? No, okay. Franks: Attendance for the barn yard boogie what you expected? Marek: It was a little slow at registration but we had a really strong turnout for drop-in's at the door so we had about 250 pre-registered and last year we ended up with 300 total. This year I think we were about 350-360. Lash: Is there a fee for that? Marek: $4.00 per person. Hoffman: No surprise last night during Bill Morris' presentation, the Recreation Center is the highest percentage of what a person participates in a recreation program, the rec center has the highest percentage, and then the outdoor programs and the senior center. Lash: Good, thanks Susan. Then why don't we move on to 7 so that Dale can do his part too. PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE. Gregory: Okay, well summer's just about coming to an end. Even though I didn't have a very long report for you this quarter and that, we were really pretty busy with all the ballfield maintenance and soccer and everything else that' s going on. Just trying to keep up with all that sort of stuff. As most of you have seen they did get the playground down in Bandimere all done and that is really a nice structure and everything now. Very safe structure and it does cost more but it is definitely a nice way to go. The shed is coming along. We're basically, we've got the shed. We are very slow at getting into it. I'm just trying to keep up with everything else so we're just moving in slow whenever we've got rainy days and that type of thing and that, we've been moving our stuff into it and this fall we'll pretty much try to end that and get everything totally into it. Since I made out the report and that I've also gotten, we've got the trail overlays going on. We've got oh a mile of overlays that we're going to be taking care of. We are Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 doing one up in North Lotus Lake. It's a 6 foot trail currently. That trail's going to come out and we're going to widen it to an 8 foot trail. That will give us the opportunity to plow around the whole trail. People will be able to walk through the whole park all the way around without actually getting on and off of the roads and that. So that will really be an improvement out there and people had asked for that. Lash: That's at North Lotus you say? Gregory: North Lotus, correct. And some of the other trails in that are along Pleasant View going all the way up to Near Mountain. That's what I'm taking care of and we've got some out in Minnewashta area and Country Oaks area that are going to need an overlay this year. I've got one other thing that, in fact I didn't get a chance to talk to Todd about it and I just wanted to bring it up to everybody and make you think about, is the guard shack down at South Lotus Lake. If you've ever given any thought to removing that. We're getting, we've had it broken into about 5 times and kids just go in there and, I mean they've broken down the doors. They've broken the windows out. They've broken everything and it' s, we don't have a use for it down there but it's just a place for the kids to tear apart and I was down there again today and we've basically got it bolted shut and they still beat everything in on it. And I didn't get a chance to talk to Todd about it. I just thought I'd bring it up for you just to think about. That's about all I have right now. Lash: Okay, anybody have questions for Dale? Moes: Yeah, a question on the shack then. What would it take to remove it? Gregory: Literally we can go in there and we could lift the thing off and put it on a trailer and get it out of there and there's a concrete slab. We'd take that out and then just get dirt in there and get grass growing in there. Moes: The unit itself isn't bolted to the concrete? It's just sitting there? Gregory: It's just bolted on the outside and that so I mean it's literally take the bolts out and take the deck out and take it out of there with that. It wouldn't be a big problem to do that. Lash: Anything else? Jay? Karlovich: I just want to know who picked out the fencing around the Lake Ann park maintenance building. I just think that looks great. It doesn't even look like a park maintenance building. It looks like, wow. It's beautiful. Gregory: The paramedics are moved into that place and they're working out of it as of last Monday. Hoffman: We saw them tonight. Gregory: They are very happy out there. They really like it. Hoffman: Yeah, they mentioned that at the meeting this morning. The Chamber...oh it was last night at the council meeting. The Fire Chief Wolff, John Wolff said that ambulance response times for the entire community in the downtown area now have just so drastically improved that it's a great addition. Lash: Great. Good idea. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Franks: Are you planning on having a formal open house when you get all moved in? Gregory: That's up to my boss. Hoffman: We talked about it and. Franks: Open house/floor hockey tournament. I just want to let you know just driving around today and looking at the parks, they look great. They just look great. Gregory: The soccer fields and everything are really, even our ballfields and that with the fertilizing program we've been on the past couple years and that, it's just been exceptional. We ran into a little trouble with the captains meeting, or captains practice in that they have 2 weeks of practice out at Lake Ann and the problem was they used the same goal for 2 weeks and we didn't catch them in that to rotate back and forth and they just tore up one end of the goal on that. But other than that we've had great luck out there. It's really been holding up real nice. Howe: Good job on the Dave Huffman too, thanks for your help there... Hoffman: The commission toured the Bandimere site tonight. The only question they had is when we would go ahead and restore the outside of the play area. Gregory: That's going to happen this year yet. We had them working up at Ballfield//4, right around the dugout area. That one area we fixed, that's soft again a little bit so we ended up taking the blacktop out and hatching that again and Bandimere's nice on the rest. They're going to haul black dirt around there and do some sodding later on and then seeding the rest of it so we've got several areas that we're going to be filling in with dirt and that is one of the main ones that we're going to take care of. Lash: So it will just be sort of a gentle slope away from? Gregory: Yes. It's going to be gentle. It will be so we can still mow it and that type of thing. Hoffman: The kids are just throwing the rocks. Gregory: Yeah, we noticed that and like I say that is definitely on our list to get going underway. Lash: Anything else for Dale? Sounds good. Thanks Dale. RECOMMENDATION TO SUBMIT APPLICATION TO THE SUBURBAN HENNEPIN REGIONAL PARK DISTRICT FOR A 2001-2002 WINTER USE PERMIT AUTHORIZING SNOWMOBILE USE ON THE SOUTH LRT TRAIL. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Lash, members of the commission. Hennepin Parks sent out a little bit earlier than past years a request for applications to utilize the southern LRT trail for winter use. Sue Woodrich is the new Director of Operations at Hennepin Parks and she's inquiring with the city about our interest in applying again for a snowmobile permit. I believe we're one of, at least in the south trail, the only city that continues to utilize the LRT for a snowmobile trail. Basically what it is is a way out of town to Chaska for the people who choose to use that route. The city has applied since 1994 for the permit and received approval from Hennepin Parks. And then in conjunction with that, Chan 4 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Snowmobile Club, they assist in signing. You have a rules sheet in your packet and the number 4 would be, pertains directly to the LRT. On the LRT, the abandoned railroad bed between Chan and Chaska you cannot snowmobile before 7:00 a.m. and after 7:00 p.m. and the speed limit is 30 mph and those were requirements of the City Council in the past to go ahead and authorize the submittal of the permit. To date citizens concerns over this have been virtually non-existent. While at the same time the snowmobiling public enjoys a nice trail experience and a way to preserve their form of recreation in town for the longest period of time possible. It's staff' s recommendation that the commission recommend the City Council submit an application to Hennepin Parks for the use of the southern LRT trail located in Chanhassen as a designated snowmobile trail for the 2001-2002 snow season. Lash: Okay. Anybody with questions or comments from this? Okay, is there a motion to approve. Make the recommendation to send it to City Council. Anyone? Kadovich: I'll recommend that the commission recommend to the City Council to submit the application to the Suburban Hennepin Regional Park District for use of the southern LRT trail located in Chanhassen as a designated snowmobile trail in the same type of fashion as we've done over the past few years. Lash: Is there a second to that? Moes: I second it. Karlovich moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council submit the application to the Suburban Hennepin Regional Park District for use of the southern LRT trail located in Chanhassen as a designated snowmobile trail in the same type of fashion as has been done over the past few years. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. ROUNDHOUSE; NEIGHBORHOOD RENOVATION UPDATE. Hoffman: Chair Lash, members of the commission. Very short report. Deanna Bunkelman, the individual who stood up at a City Council meeting this past spring and volunteered to coordinate the neighborhood initiative to renovate the roundhouse, was difficult to reach over the summer. As it tums out she was occupied with a family medical issue, and I believe eventually a death in the family. She was unable to invest the time she intended in the roundhouse project. She will give a report to the City Council on Monday, October 8th where I anticipate she will ask for a one year extension on the renovation project. Lash: Have you talked to her directly? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: And that's what she told you that she's going to do? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Okay. Anyone else with comments? Franks: Did this come up at the council meeting last night? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Hoffman: Not that I know off I was not there through the whole meeting. Moes: Is there anything we're supposed to do with this or if this just informational? Hoffman: If you're concerned one way or the other, I would recommend you contact the City Council members before they discuss it on the 8th. Howe: I'm going to try to be at that meeting too maybe. Franks: After looking through the packet and considering the round house once again, one of the thoughts that I had, and I don't know if this is going to seem a little out in left field but I wanted to bring it out maybe for a reality check or maybe spur some thinking. But in light of what happened on September 11t~, and thinking that our city seems still in some ways fragmented around this issue. There doesn't seem to be a real cohesive pull. Is if using the round house as a unifying symbol to not only work towards it's renovation in our history but also to create something lasting that brings the community together around the whole issue of the terrorist attacks as well. I haven't totally flushed out my thinking on that one but we might have something just sitting right here in our midst that's really ready to pull our community a little bit tighter together around an actual physical project. But also to have some symbolic meaning around really the change that's occurred probably in all of our lives, at least in all of our thinking as of September 11t~. So I guess I'm looking for just some feedback from the commission about what you think about pursuing something like that. What got me thinking about it too was the brick sale that went on for the old depot. Where people were buying the paving bricks and stuff and how that was kind of a thing, but utilizing that kind of thinking of real community involvement. And not just in the round house but in something that the round house begins to symbolize. Something new. Lash: Anybody going to jump right on that? Howe: I don't disagree with that. I think frankly at this point anything that we can use to get that thing going would be fine with me and that's a very worthy cause. I worry that, and our motion to the council 6 months ago we said oh, September you know we'll make the decision in September. And nothing's happened for 3 months and I understand that she had some issues but you know we're going back now begging again. Please, please give us another year and yeah, I'll be one of the guys begging like that, I promise you but you know, that's a new angle. Anything at this point. Lash: Got anything Dave? Moes: I think my thoughts were well captured earlier on. Maybe I do have a couple of comments though. I mean I was out there a couple times this summer and drove by and I did notice that nothing was happening out there. I did see a lot of people sitting around in their yards though. So the one thing that does come to mind is, if I go back and think through when Deanna did her presentation, was that there was all this other community support and neighborhood support. She had an assistant chair person, etc and what I'm reading here is, she didn't have the time available and so therefore the entire neighborhood didn't have the time available and that sends me a different message in regards to one person not having the time available but the whole neighborhood evidently didn't have the time available so, I walk away with a different message on that then that there will be participation. Plus if I go back and tally up the votes, I think the votes, the majority of the votes were still for demolition and putting up a different shelter so I think unless there's a new vote by the neighbors, I think that one still stands. Lash: What vote? 6 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Moes: When we tallied up the votes the evening when people came in or e-mailed, the majority of the votes were for the building to be demolished and a different shelter put up for it. And those were the people that had spoken and/or e-mailed in. Franks: And that's, you know I wanted to work towards renovation but I was also one of the people that said we have to make a decision one way or the other when it comes time, and that means take it down, take it down. But my thinking has changed a little bit in watching buildings come down and to rip it down now just really strikes me as the wrong kind of symbolism, at least for me. And instead of tearing down, there's been enough tearing down. I'd like to see something being built up. So I guess, maybe I'm projecting a little bit...into the round house. Spizale: You know also, I think it' s a little bit of history. I mean I remember seeing that as a young kid being there. I think it's kind of, you kind of take that down, it's not going to come back again. ! agree with what you're saying. I don't know why there's such a rush to get rid of it. Lash: Well it's not exactly a rush. Moes: ...would have preferred it be gone a long time ago. Lash: Yeah, this has been sort of... Franks: But what I'm talking about is taking it from being a polarizing issue to a unifying project and giving it a new bend and a new lease on life. That's, because it is a polarizing project and that disturbs me as well. Spizale: Maybe you need a stronger person to push it. Maybe that's a problem. Maybe you need someone that's more involved in the neighborhood to push that project. Hoffman: Well I think, listening to Deanna, it will be a telling experience as well. What is she going to say? Lash: In the end it's going to be up to the City Council so you know, and they had different opinions many times when it's been discussed so the chips will fall on the 8th and it will be the neighbors going to City Council. And we have opinions and I'm sure we can share them but in the end. Karlovich: Well should we make some type of a resolution that at least we support another one year extension if possible? I'd have to say I agree with Rod. ! always thought the round house provides an opportunity and it's going to be another opportunity possibly that the city is just going to by-pass and I think you'd better change the name of the park or, it's something a little bit more costly but at least it would be continued to make that park unique or at least the structure would be unique. Lash: I wouldn't have a problem with doing that. Do you want to put that into the state of a motion that we recommend that they extend it. We can do that, can't we Todd? Hoffman: Sure. Karlovich: You want to do that Rod? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Franks: You lost me a little bit. Karlovich: Just make a recommendation to the City Council telling them that we recommend that they allow a one year extension. Franks: Yeah. I mean I really do at this point. As you say, I'd hate to see another opportunity be by- passed when we could really begin to look at this a little bit differently. If it means really being more creative re-naming the park or really looking at something differently, I think we should consider it so yeah I would really be in favor of that. Karlovich: Well I'II make a motion to recommend to the City Council that we support Mrs., am I pronouncing that correctly? Bunkelman's request for a one year extension to see if she can get the, her community and group together to try to get something done over a one year extension to the time frame in which was originally intended to begin the renovation of the round house. Lash: Is there a second to that motion? Howe: I'll second it. Karlovich moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council support Mrs. Deanna Bunkelman's request for a one year extension for the renovation of the round house at Roundhouse Park. All voted in favor, except Dave Moes who opposed, and the motion carried. Lash: And Dave, I think we know where you're coming from so ! don't think we need to ask for any clarification. Moes: Well I think I do have a few more thoughts. We haven't moved on yet. Lash: No, no, no. Moes: Well I think, you know earlier on we had put a time line and a decision point in place and as I look at things, there can always be additional reasons or areas to look at and I believe that's why the round house has been an agenda item or an agenda issue for, how many years is it so far? That we moved into that arena once again when I believe 6 months ago we were talking and we were trying to be very decisive. You know put specifics in place and put what I call a stake in the ground to move forward from there and if I look at what's occurring now is it's the continuing evolution of there's always another item. There's always another issue to be put out there and continue the discussion, the debate over it. So unless there's a different vote by the neighbors, I'll go back and just state one more time, the majority vote when we held the last session was to bring it down and put up a new shelter. Lash: Okay, thanks. We'll move on then. SUBMISSION OF ALTERNATIVES FOR FUTURE PARK SHELTER BUILDING;, BANDIMERE PARK. Hoffman: This is just a recap of the discussion that the commission held at your mid-summer capital improvement program discussion. Where we talked about pre-fabricated shelters being put to use out at Bandimere Park. I made two inquiries on those type of shelters. Both of those representatives Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 recommended that we pursue constructing a more conventionally built stick and general contractor type building because of the needs and the desires that we have out there for facilities. Concessions, utility room for the irrigation equipment and concessions just never really fit into these big fab buildings. It just doesn't work very well. Examples of contractor built shelters are at Lion's Park in Victoria, right in downtown Victoria. There's the Lion's continue to add onto that structure. Community park in Chaska. In fact at many of the parks in Chaska they have the ranch style, long structures. There' s also a brand new one out at Minnewashta Regional Park which is more of a masonry structure or picnic shelter overlooking the lake. Some details about the site that we have down there at Bandimere. You saw locations, centrally located. There's sewer and water have been brought up to the site as a part of the original project so we would alleviate having to dig that park up again in the future. Athletic associations have stated that they would help pay for it, at least in some percentage for the use of that facility as a tournament headquarters and concession stand during their tournaments. And then the irrigation control, the heavy box there that is just kind of an inconvenience to be able to service so all of those things can be incorporated into one shelter. I think the price tag's going to be closer to $250, not to $75. But I think we saw tonight that the park is coming together and is going to serve the community for a long time in the future and serve the community I think at a fairly high volume. Something similar to the Lake Ann or the Recreation Center so, those are the details and I think those are just to put in your memory bank for future capital improvement sessions and think about over the year. Howe: Can you refresh me, is this on our CIP right now? Hoffman: No it's not. Howe: It's not at all even on it. Hoffman: It was on here and then perhaps moved. Lash: That was my question too. When or where we had it. And also if the athletic associations are wanting to pony up. Do we have any kind of a feel for how much? Hoffman: We're talking $4,000 or $5,000. Lash: Total? Hoffman: Total. Well from perhaps a couple of them. Lash: So maybe $10,000. Hoffman: Significant from their point of view, but to the overall project just a small percentage. Lash: Do you have our roughed out CIP? (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Franks: How much did we have for the north Highway 101 trail? Hoffman: $800,000. Franks: And that was for which year? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Hoffman: 2001. Lash: Anybody else? Okay. RECREATION PROGRAMS: A. DAVE HUFFMAN 5K MEMORIAL RUN. Ruegemer: Just a recap. We did have the race on Saturday the 15th of September. Total numbers were around 331 runners, which is about 100 more than last year, which was good. We weren't quite sure what the numbers were going to be especially for walk-up registrations the morning of because it was a little overcast, a little cloudy, but we had really good numbers. Walkoup. What did we do, over 1007 Howe: Over I00. We ran out of numbers for them. Ruegemer: Yeah, so that was a nice problem to have. We had just a lot of groups from around the area participate this year. We did have a little bit more organization and organizational help from the Vikings, as you all know from previous reports. We didn't have really as many players as I think we once had thought or been promised but it was nice to have Leo Lewis out there. He kind of gave a personal testimony. He did have his locker in fact right next to Dave when they were playing together so it was nice to have some insight to really kind of share some, have some insights for us I guess to the crowd. I think it made people feel connected maybe to Dave a little bit more because I'm sure the vast majority of people never met Dave so it's kind of something they can kind of go away with. It was fun to have Joe Schmit out there. I don't know what everybody else thought but I thought he added some really kind of a nice humorous touch to it and he kind of kept us lively and. Howe: He ran too. Ruegemer: Yep, he sure did. Lash: Sort of. Howe: No, he ran and finished. Ruegemer: So that was good, and we just again, all the details were covered again thanks to Dale and all the park maintenance guys and Mike Wegler, Street Superintendent and some other public works employees and Carver County, it really went off again without a hitch and that's something that we all strive for. To have a safe race and all that was done with a lot of work ahead of time so I appreciate all, everybody's work at this room and it went off really without a hitch again. And looking ahead to next year, we're going to have another kind of a wrap up meeting here by the next 2 or 3 mornings here coming up this week to kind of get it finaled and put to bed for another 4 months and then we'll start over again I'm sure. So Kathy seemed to be very happy with the event as well. Kathy Huffman. Lash: Anybody have anything? I just think the whole committee should be commended that everybody that worked on it, it was great and I just love to see it. I think it's just going to continue to get better and have better participation. I think given the timing especially this year with what people were feeling and going through that weekend, I think it was just a nice release to be able to get together with people and everybody was feeling some strength and it was just a nice time to come together. 10 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Ruegemer: We had discussed that too, whether we should even hold it or not but I think collectively we really thought it would be kind of a good diversion I guess. To have something positive in light of the happenings that we've had so we went forward and I'm glad we did. Howe: Also the Americlnn's people, I've said this before and I'll say it on the record again, they work really hard. From the head guy all the way down to the clerks in the hotel. They really put a lot into it and it shows and they are a big reason why it goes like it goes. Lash: Sounds good. You guys did a great job. Thanks. 2001 LAKE ANN PARK CONCESSION OPERATIONS. Ruegemer: I don't know how detailed you want me to go in on that. It's pretty self explanatory. Things looking to next year, soft pretzels I think would be a good thing. Very good thing. We can work that into a meal deal thing too. The greaseless fryer we're going to kind of look into. As far as doing French fries and that without grease and other things with that so always looking for ways to improve. Also maybe think about making some bilingual signs or Spanish speaking signs. Lash: I would say beach signs too might be especially in Spanish, given our record. Franks: I think that'd be really helpful. Respectful as well. Ruegemer: Anybody have any specific questions on that? Howe: It was a great report. I mean it was just, Erin who wrote this report? Ruegemer: Yeah. Howe: Ideas for the future. I thought, I really enjoyed reading it. Lash: Is she in college? Ruegemer: Yeah, she's a senior this year so I'm not sure we're going to get her back next summer. I talked to her already about it. Lash: In marketing or what's her major? Howe: Yeah, she's really a great worker. We got her when she was a junior in high school I think, or sophomore. She's worked here ever since so it's been great. Moes: Just a quick question, this jumped out in the supply side. The Midwest Coca Cola cost and that seems to jump out in overall sales were dramatically down. Ruegemer: We did some different things up there and yeah, there was some price increases and that. Moes: In looking at the total drop in revenue for that one to go up $1,300, I mean even if it would have stayed flat that would have improved your bottom line dramatically for the year. I don't know if something unusual came up in place there. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Ruegemer: Which one David? Moes: The Midwest Coca Cola. I mean in 2001 it was roughly $3,500. In 2000 it was $2,100 and total food sales dropped almost $3,000 so I was just curious how that one increased so dramatically when overall revenue sales were down. I mean you throw another $1,000 to the bottom line there and profit and it kind of tells a different story. Hoffman: Did we serve more products on Midwest Coca Cola? Ruegemer: Yeah. We did give some freebies away with the 4th and some of those types of things too so, I'm sure we'll look to improve that for next year. Moes: I don't know, it just jumped out like I said. Something unusual right to the bottom line. Lash: So they didn't just up the rates. Ruegemer: Some of that as well. Franks: Is there an adequate place for a bike rack down by the beach? Lash: I thought we had a bike rack down there, didn't we? Long ago? No? Ruegemer: No, we never had one. Franks: Is there a place for one? Hoffman: Sure. Lash: That'd be easy to do. Ruegemer: Erin certainly has mentioned it down them. Hoffman: Let's try it. Lash: Susan. Marek: If we're ordering bike racks, you might as well get two for the volume discount. We'd like one at the Rec Center as well. Hoffman: Two for one. This is how we get things done. Lash: Anything else? Anything else you want Susan? Okay, let's move onto the Halloween party. Karlovich: Another treadmill or something? 2001 HALLOWEEN PARTY. 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Ruegemer: Halloween party's coming up Saturday, October 274 out at the Rec Center. I know Corey's been working hard on already getting and securing volunteers already for that this year. He's ordered supplies and getting a lot of the information together. He's been talking to Charlie a lot. Getting new ideas for the scary hallway. I think he's going to purchase a fog machine this year so we've got it all going. Lash: Okay. You go the sign-up sheets? Ruegemer: I don't have it with me tonight but. Howe: Pick me out a good costume this year Jerry. Don't let me down. Lash: Cat in the Hat. You were very cute in that. Ruegemer: Flyers are done and they'll be going out to the schools here very shortly. Franks: No hard candy. Ruegemer: Did we do wrong last year Rod? Franks: No you did good last year. Ruegemer: It takes us a couple times to get hit in the head with a 2 by 4. Lash: Okay. Anybody else have anything for that? Franks: Oh, one more thing. And no, if you can, try to avoid peanut products. I know it' s difficult but. Lash: I'll tell you part of the thing is so many of the products are packaged in the same factory so. I mean at some level yeah, you don't have to get like Salted Nut Rolls or something like that but on some level it's the parent's responsibility if they have a child who has allergies so they should need to be aware. ADMINISTRATIVE: 2002 PARK & TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Lash, members of the commission. Here's the answer to your question about when you slotted in the shelter, 2005. $175,000. That's where it currently is located. Lash: Is that close to the amount that you think will do it by then? Probably. Especially by 2005. If we're going to keep it in 2005, we might as well just put more money there now because it's going to have to happen. So should it go up to 250? Hoffman: It's already submitted. Lash: Keep that in mind. People who are going to be here. Franks: When we don't have to spend that $800,000 on that trail, then. 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Hoffman: I want to update you on the other submittals as a part of the 2002 park and trail acquisition and development CIP that you were not aware of back in July. On August 31st I submitted that CIP to the City Manager, Todd Gerhardt and Finance Director, Bruce DeJong. They included three items, which were additional following your discussion. The first being the trail connector from Chanhassen Hills to Bandimere Park which, at least in our vehicle we looked at tonight. We scoped it all out. I'm sure you guys were doing the same. It would travel from Chanhassen Hills, the entrance south to Bandimere Park and probably in the neighborhood of a couple hundred thousand dollars, depending on the difficulty in grading. It's not, you can properly see from one end of the correction to the other, but there'd still be some significant cross there. The second item is the trail connector, or the other two items, both trail connectors involved with the Highway 5 improvement project. One being at Bluff Creek, the other being at Riley Creek. If you look at the plan they're somewhat confusing. Let's just look at the vicinity map first off. It shows the two locations. One right in the front door of Lake Ann. One right in the front door of the recreation center. You can picture in your mind they are building the beautiful frontage road on the north and it already has the 10 foot trail on the north side of that. Then they are building an underpass for each of these trails underneath that frontage road. It's...structure. Both of them have the creek right along the trail as a part of that frontage road. Then the part of the Highway 5 itself, Highway 5 proper, these trails, the culvert takes the water underneath the road and then another...culvert but off the trail that's next to you takes the pedestrian through the underpass. But when you hit the southern terminus of the Highway 5 MnDot right-of-way, they stop. No connections to our city trail system and plans were not made for that. I think it was Mike or one of the commissioners that said people are anticipating when this thing opens in June that they'll be utilizing those connections. I have made inquiries with our engineering department, with the State of Minnesota about where are these connections and it wasn't the only thing left out for a variety of reasons. These plans were basically put on paper about 4 years ago. Street lighting if you've noticed is not included in the 5 years currently. And landscaping is not currently included. Those items will also be coming along at a future date and a future contract. I think that it's absolutely essential that we make plans to pay for and install these connections. The recreation center one is much more straight forward. If you ever stood at the east end of the recreation center sidewalk, that's where the connection will come down to, and then there's a sidewalk that leads out to Coulter Boulevard. It's a very short connection. Not that expensive to make to the underpass. And then there's a supplemental connection to the church which is just to the east there which you can see under construction. And so there's kind of a Y that would take place there. And the Y would actually cross the creek at the old farmers driveway that goes across there. So that's in place so we don't have to buy a bridge or install a separate culvert. The connection at Lake Ann is much more complex. If you've ever remember driving by and looking south into this creek bed, it's very steep and there's three options. You look at coming along Prince's fence, right along the creek down to the cul-de- sac. If you've ever driven back in the cul-de-sac in Park Road where there's big dirt piles, that's one option. The second is to take it straight west at the Highway 5 ditch to the intersection of Audubon at 5 at Prince's front door. The third option is to take it immediately east to the Park Road access right near the Merit sign. Or any combination of those three. So what I've asked the City Council and what they've approved is that we go ahead and solicit their consultants to study these alternatives. Prepare a cost and design alternatives and then submit those back to the city for our selection of the routes and to get a contractor here the first of the spring to get these things built. Costs, I mean all three of these projects could exceed a half a million dollars so these are significant cost issues for the commission and the city, but ! think absolutely necessary that they are done. I'll answer any questions that the commission has. I wanted to make you aware. Karlovich: The one statement I wanted to make was that living in the northwest kind of quadrant of Chanhassen and at least the community members that I've been in contact with, or a lot of the public, that loves and uses the trail along Galpin are expecting once Highway 5 is finished that, I just constantly hear 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 the comments that oh it's going to be great. Did you see those trail connectors. You're going to be able to go under Highway 5 and go somewhere. Most of the public thinks that they're going in with Highway 5 so I think you' re going to get a lot of disappointed customers and there's going to be a lot of heat that comes after Highway 5 is in. Hoffman: Highway 5 is anticipated to be done in June of 2002 and we could make that schedule or meet it shortly thereafter. Lash: Anybody else? Kelly: Did you ever think about extending the trail on Lyman all the way to Powers? Going west. Hoffman: Yes. Kelly: Which I know is a pretty decent size shoulder. Hoffman: It's in the comprehensive plan to do all of Lyman from the current stop right there at the 101, all the way west to Highway 41. Where that is held up is it's a county road and the county and the city entered into the cooperative agreements on all the county roads in the city and then the TIF issue came up where the money dried up and the city was only mandated to make those TIF payments back to the county if the money was available. Well the money isn't available so the county is not very excited about coming up here and investing more money in county roads in our city currently. They feel Lyman Boulevard does a very nice job. The city would like to see it in an urban section with a sidewalk, but they're saying well if you'd like to see that then pay up your past debts and then we'll start talking about Lyman Boulevard. That's basically how I understand the future, how that roadway. When it does happen, it's going to be a beautiful connection because every trail, Galpin, Audubon, Powers, they all come down and people do not like running along that connection. Especially down to below the hill out there to the west. Lash: With the options that you gave with the Lake Ann...just my gut reaction on, and of course it'd be dependent on conditions and cost and stuff but my first thought is, ! think the one going west to Audubon would be my first choice because I think it would take us down to Century Boulevard which then hooks up and then it goes down Audubon and there's a trail down there that goes into the neighborhood and stuff so that would seem like the most natural. Hoffman: It's probably the best and will most likely be the least expensive. Lash: Good. Hoffman: A couple of items I forgot to list. Survey results I mentioned to most of you that last night the City Council received the final word on the recent survey conducted in the city by Bill Morris of Decision Resources. Bill started his presentation by saying we might as well start with the, what he continues the crown jewel of Chanhassen and that is the park and recreation offerings that the city presents to the public. He says we have the highest approval ratings of any suburban community ever surveyed by his firm. Consistently over 90% approval ratings from participants. If we want to look at things in the future to top off the program in the parks and recreation area, it would be an indoor pool and a community center. They're widely supported. If you take out the 18% of people who say no to absolutely anything, he says an indoor pool in this community is widely, overwhelmingly ! think was his term, supported by your public. And that support is across the board. It's not just families with children. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 It's older adults and so he says now, if you want to talk about these things, it's a good time to talk about it. Even though people feel they're over taxed, they're open to a conversation about the things that they really feel strongly about. As long as you partner, when asked if the city should go at these things alone, the approval ratings drop off dramatically. Usership, I've already mentioned that. That usership is consistent across all ages in our city. Participation levels in city programs is very high. Approximately 20 to 25% of people are connected to the city via the internet and they would like to receive the majority of the information and provide registration opportunities that way. I believe the council is going to tie into that in a pretty dramatic way. The executive summary which he presented last night will be in next month's administrative packet so if you want to read through that, he has it broken out by category. It's interesting to read. And then second item, phone call today from a Rich Haggle, a resident of the community. He will probably be at your next meeting for visitor presentations to talk about two issues. First, South Lotus Lake boat access. Minor issue. There's a deep hole in there probably from prop wash ! think. People have a difficult time landing their boat. Keeping it level. I've asked Dale to talk with the DNR folks to see what kind of permit we need to do grading or filling within the lake itself. They'll go ahead and file some type of permit. Second issue in his words, he lives a half a mile from Greenwood Shores beach and the can only drive half that distance before he has to stop and park his car and get out to access the public park. He's not happen about that and he wants to talk to the commission about that as well. So he should be here in October. Lash: Okay. Are we, are you talking about the stuff in the packet when you're talking about the Decision Resources or is that just coming out of the meeting last night? Hoffman: Last night coming out of the meeting. There's stuff here in the packet as well and then there will be an administrative or executive summary next week. Lash: Alright. Well we'll move on to Commission Member Committee Reports. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORT. Lash: Mike, did you already kind of do your report? Howe: I did mine. Lash: Dave, do you have any? Moes: Nothing yet, no. Lash: I don't think any of the rest of us are on any committees, are we? Okay. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Hoffman: Wide variety of information in here because it's over a 2 month period of time. Lash: A couple of quick things I was just going to say that I pulled out of the Decision Resources thing that I thought is very encouraging and I think a lot of this goes back to our staff and the great service that they provide to our city but as you look at the park and recreation facilities, the usage, the rating, the neighborhood parks and the appearance of it, you know Dale that goes to you and your staff. I mean 16 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 obviously you guys are doing a great job. I think it looks good. It's interesting to see expanding the amount of natural areas in existing parks, 59% of people would favor expanding the natural areas so it's always an important thing for us to keep in mind when we're developing that not everybody wants a ballfield. Hoffman: Mr. Morris classified 25% of our residents as conservative green. Lash: So that's just an important thing to remember. As much as we need fields and people are fighting over them, there's a high percentage of people who want that open space just to be able to go and commune. And then if you look under the recreational development, people who support certain things. The community center comes in highest with 65 and then the pool which to me is kind of the same thing. Followed not that far behind by a water park, which again I think a community center would fill that need but a municipal golf course, 50%. That was surprising for me to see but good to see too. Of course there's 50% who don't support it so. But then the other thing that I found really interesting for how many people would support some of those things, if you look under needed recreational facilities, 59% say that we don't need anything more. So and only 9% say they think we need a community center and 17% say we need a pool. So I think those two are in a little bit opposing to each other so I'm not exactly sure how to read that. But Susan and Jerry and Corey, you know the recreational program participation. You got good marks on that, although when it shows participation it says only 39% of the people participate. I just find that. Hoffman: 40%. Lash: Yeah, is that high? See I don't think that seems very high. When you see how many people are out there doing stuff, and then you think over half of them aren't doing anything. Hoffman: Well these are people who sign up. Then there's another. Lash: That just walk around yeah. Hoffman: ...percent that just do the things we saw them doing tonight. Lash: Yeah, yeah. But it's just interesting because when you see so many kids out there, you just figure that's got to be, just think if they all signed up. We'd be in trouble. But I find this really interesting to see the ratings and I think you guys should really be very proud of yourselves and the jobs that you do. Howe: I agree. Hoffman: Thank you. Lash: Especially some of you really long term people. I mean you've been here since this was just a little bow hunt town. And then I have a quick question for you Jerry, I'm moving onto the Lake Lucy Ridge one. Is that that proposal that we saw that was, or Todd, that was on Galpin and Lake Lucy Road on the comer? On that Lundgren, is that the one? Hoffman: Just east of that. You see a sign there right now so it's east of the intersection of Galpin and Lake Lucy. It' s directly on the shores, which would be the northwest shore of Lake Lucy. Lash: Okay. Thanks. Anybody else have any? 17 Park and Rec Comrnission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Hoffman: That was referring to the letter about the trail and Mr. Noecker has gone ahead and stated that he will install the trail in the rear yards. He's beginning to recognize it's future significance in our trail system. Lash: And then what was the grant for? That you did. Hoffman: At Bandimere? Lash: Yeah. Hoffman: That was for a shelter and the playground and the playground's completed so now it will just be for a shelter. Lash: Okay. Anybody else have anything for Todd or Jerry out of here? Okay. Then we're done. .Anybody have anything else about anything? Franks: I noticed the skateboard, skate park issue again. I know that's one incident reported in our packet but overall, Todd since you're up them, what's kind of the buzz around the skate park? As far as behavior that is not going to be up to bat. Hoffman: Oh sure. It's always there and at certain times of the day and mainly focused around language and then. Language and respect. Respect to the property itselfi Respect of other people in the community. People here at City Hall, at the bank and post office. At the Oasis building. And so there's issues that I think the skate park has touched a lot of people in town. I sit at a table at the Chamber of Commerce and everybody them will say the skate park's a great facility. That they're driving by and they say look at all the participation and then there's the other people who are coming face to face with the participants and having negative experience. The calls have gone down. It's not quite once a week that I receive a complaint call, where it was almost daily during certain levels in the spring. Springtime and issues are all the same issues. Language. Bullying or attempting to start fights. The litter .... available here, the restrooms and the water and the pop machines and those types of things and so Jerry is over there on a weekly basis. I'm there probably at least once a day. I can look at the facility out my window. Our availability to go over and talk to the participants is one of the reasons that so many people call and ask you know what's going on in Chanhassen. How come you can keep a lid on things whereas in other locations there's nobody there? I don't know why Young America recently opened and then closed it. They had problems. Woodbury opened their's, or excuse me. Eagan opened theirs. They had huge problems. It's in an off site location. Big, big problems and they closed it immediately to try to get the lay of the land. Basically the approach I've taken is that you talk to those participants because when I'm over there talking to a group of kids that are causing problems, there's the other 97% that are watching and saying you know, we saw those kids doing, conducting that bad behavior and we saw that guy from City Hall walk over here and chew them out for it. And so hopefully we're teaching those other ones the behavior that we expect. It is frustrating. People are frustrated when they do run into these negatives experiences. They call me on their cell phones. They say there's kids over here showing a lack of respect for the park. Swearing. There's young kids present here. They're smoking under age, those type of things. So what I continue to do is just to kind of get your hands around it. When we fence it all off this fall, then there's going to be no smoking at the facility, I don't care if you're of age or not of age. There's simply going to be no smoking. That will take cam of that problem. Bikes will not be allowed inside of the fenced area so that will take care of the bike issue. And then it's really just talking to these kids, and I encourage these parents that are over there, you know talk to them. Don't let them get away 18 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 with swearing you know next door to you. Say hey that's not appropriate. Make sure you send those messages because I see it as a, it's just a place to, it's not a place to ignore and say oh it's all bad. Let's get rid of it. Close it down. It's a place to educate and put some investment into our kids I firmly believe. Gregory: Would it be worth the effort to have a Satellite in the area and that so the kids wouldn't have to go over here or would that be more of a problem too? Hoffman: Well the one there, I mean they're just 100 feet away. Moes: There are two Satellites there already. Hoffman: They're not using the bathrooms so much as the pop machines and I don't think we should put a pop machine outside at the skate park. It wouldn't last. So there's lots of good things going on there but when you have a volume, you know the last time we calculated it was 14,000 users a year and you have that volume, there's going to be, that's the age group where they're testing their boundaries. Lash: If you had 14,000 adults you'd have problems. Franks: So there's no pop vendor that wants to take...responsibility for putting their own machine out there? Ruegemer: We talk to our...and I don't know if they've got an interest... Franks: There's no new guy on the route or anything. Hoffman: Same thing with the drinking fountain. Some people are just completely besides themselves that we have not provided a drinking fountain there but it wouldn't last. And it's very expensive to install. Lash: I have to backtrack just for one second. Under committee reports, and this isn't a report at all but I all of a sudden had a flash that when we did the CIP did we talk, did we put in the mix there at all Memorial Park? Doing anything there because I just don't recall that that's in there. Hoffman: We're waiting on the two lots that are adjacent to the park to develop so they can complete the trail. Lash: Oh, okay. But I mean there's nothing else that we would move forward with before then? Because we wanted to try to put in a little parking area and some of that stuff to kind of get it before we can really do anything else. We can't do anything until we do that? Hoffman: Not really. Premature. Lash: Okay. Okay. Alright, anybody have anything else? Is there a motion to adjourn? Franks moved, Karlovich seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Submitted by Todd Hoffman 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 25, 2001 Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 20