PRC 2004 04 27CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 27, 2004
Chairman Stolar called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Glenn Stolar, Tom Kelly, Jack Spizale, Kevin Dillon, Ann
Murphy, and Steve Scharfenberg
MEMBERS ABSENT: Paula Atkins
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent;
Stolar: I think first order of business is welcoming our new members. Kevin, Ann and
Steve. Thank you. ! don't know if you want to introduce yourselves for the record.
Kevin Dillon: Yeah, it'd be great, thank you. I'm Kevin Dillon. ! live at 6701 Mulberry
Circle in Chanhassen. Have been a resident of the area for 10 years. Actually 10 years
next week and very excited to be a part of the Parks and Rec Board. ! think from my
perception and experience of the local facilities, it's been extremely positive and
hopefully I'll be able to build on that.
Ann Murphy: I'm Ann Murphy. I also live in Chanhassen. Not too far from here. Right
over in Saddlebrook and I've lived here for 5 years. I moved here from Michigan.
That's where I'm from, and I've been involved in some of the sports over at Chaska,
teaching swimming and involved with the Chaska Community Center so a little bit
familiar with some of the programs there but I want to, I'm interested in our's as well so
that's why I'm here.
Hoffman: Then just grab your mic Ann and just put it right in front of you.
Steve Scharfenberg: Steve Scharfenberg. I live at 1470 Lake Susan Hills Drive. Lived
in Chanhassen for 7 years now and have kids that are involved in various aspects of the
school and the park programs here and am very interested to serve out my one year term
and hopefully more after that.
Stolar: Great. And welcome and thank you.
Hoffman: That gives Nann, our recorder a chance to hear you voice and name and now
she can...
Stolar: Recognize it.
Hoffman: Recognize it, very good.
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Stolar: Yep. And just for the record, Commissioner Atkins is absent today. Everyone
else is present.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Stolar: Are there any changes or updates to the agenda? Okay. I'll just be making a
little bit of an update on the council meeting during commission member presentations.
Do ! have a motion to approve the agenda?
Kelly moved, Spizale seconded to approve the agenda as amended to include an
update under commission member presentations by Chair Stolar. All voted in favor
and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
APPOINTMENT OF VICE CHAIR PERSON.
Stolar: We do have a Vice Chairperson of the commission. Vice Chairperson represents
the Chairperson in their absence in conducting these meetings or other activities that are
needed for the vice chairperson and we are looking for nominations. This is going to be a
short and easy process.
Spizale: ! nominate Tom. He's done such a good job in the past and he's got it down.
Stolar: Is there a second to that nomination?
Scharfenberg: I'll second that nomination.
Stolar: And please, new members feel free to nominate yourselves too. That is quite
alright. Any other nominations?
Hoffman: Amy O'Shea resigned from the commission and she was vice chair.
Stolar: And prior to that Tom was vice chair. Alright, do I hear any other nominations?
Seeing none, ! guess ! would like to call for a vote.
Spizale moved, Scharfenberg seconded to appoint Tom Kelly as Vice Chair for the
Park and Recreation Commission. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Hoffman: Arbor Day this Saturday. The events start in the morning with tree sales and
park clean-up. It's right down here on City Center Park mall and lunch at noon so come
on down and participate in the events and then have a free hot dog lunch on the city.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
2
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Stolar: We have an interesting parliamentary issue here because, how do we do this
when we don't have a quorum of people who were at that meeting?
Hoffman: That's interesting. I don't believe you can approve them.
Stolar: I don't think we can either. Well I'm trying to think. We, you and I represent 50
percent of the active members there. Well we're going to do it. If it doesn't fly, it
doesn't fly. How's that?
Hoffman: Okay.
Stolar: Any updates?
Kelly: No. I move to approve the Minutes dated March 23, 2004.
Stolar: And I will second it because I think we're the only two who can do that.
Kelly moved, Stolar seconded to approve the verbatim and summary Minutes of the
Park and Recreation Commission dated March 23, 2004 as presented. Kelly and
Spizale voted in favor, and the motion carried.
REVIEW CONCEPT PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FOR HEALTH CLUB,
OFFICE, RESTAURANT, AND HOTEL; ADVANCE FITNESS.
Stolar: They were going to maybe come and talk to us but I do not see them. Todd, do
you want to talk through this?
Hoffman: Thank you Chair Stolar, members of the commission. This is a conceptual
planned unit development. It's about 21.7 acres for a health club, a restaurant and a
hotel. This property, and the owner is Advance Fitness.
Scharfenberg: Can we ask questions as you go along or what is the procedure?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Scharfenberg: Okay. They're the owner of this? I mean they own the property? They
have an option to buy?
Hoffman: Probably an option.
Scharfenberg: Okay.
Murphy: Did they just buy, recently buy that? Is that correct?
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Hoffman: Recently optioned the property.
Murphy: Like last week or?
Hoffman: That ! don't know. ! would think it was sooner than that, or probably a month
or two ago. State Highway 5 is on the top. Coulter Boulevard here. The Recreation
Center is just off the west a couple of properties. This is the Bluff Creek Corporate
Center. You have the church located in that vicinity. Going to the east you have the
corner owned by Prince with the daycare and then Paisley Park is right on the, right over
off the screen on the corner. If you remember this is the farm house that sits out here and
this is currently existing as an agricultural field. What they're proposing is a roadway
system with a north/south connector, which would be a right-in/right-out on Highway 5
and then an internal road servicing the properties which would front onto Highway 5.
Currently a proposed bank, hotel and restaurant properties. The health club is proposed
in this location with the possibility of a water park being separate from the facility.
When the commission reviews any type of development process, typically a subdivision,
what we're looking at is park and recreational needs with park dedication and/or land.
Dedication and then the trail construction or trail easement dedication. In this particular
plat it's, if you can imagine, if you're an occupant or a person taking use of these
properties, you have access to Chanhassen Recreation Center. You wanted to gain access
to any park facilities so if you're at this hotel and you wanted to go down and have a park
type setting, you just go right over to the Recreation Center. There is no need to acquire
additional property for parks in this particular area. The park service area is one half mile
from the location so we're well within the service area of the Recreation Center. The
trail plan is well developed in this area. It runs on the north side of Coulter Boulevard,
then an underpass located right at this corner of the property. They're identifying or
recognizing the need for an internal trail connection to upgrade. It really doesn't need to
go any farther than the internal street so this section can be eliminated and the street
connected up to the internal street and then some sort of a sidewalk pattern. There should
also be a second connection to the street level. If you can see right here, this is below,
this is down at the lower part of the grade which goes underneath the underpass, and so
you would want to split this and make a connection to the street level to make it much
easier for people to gain access to the trail off the street. This is a private connection to a
public trail system. We're not asking the applicant to build any public trails as a part of
this. We're not asking the applicant to dedicate any land as a part of this. They have at
least in one initial meeting referenced the ability or the likelihood, if it were to develop,
they would like to see a partnership of some sort. Possibly some, we didn't, the staff
didn't identify what kind of partnership we could have at this location. It's fairly small
for a water park or a water type feature and they have not followed up with any additional
meetings with staff after that original discussion. So the recommendation is that park
dedication fees be collected per city ordinance in lieu of parkland dedication for the
proposed Advance Fitness development. Again this is conceptual and as it continues on
down through Planning Commission and Council, you may see this application again if it
changes dramatically from it's current phase.
4
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Kelly: Just curious, what part of land was Lifetime looking to buy? Were they also
interested in all 21 acres or were they only going to buy a portion?
Hoffman: Of this property?
Kelly: Of this property, yeah.
Hoffman: ! don't know.
Dillon: Is the one developer going to do the restaurants and the other stuff too or is he, !
mean is it just one company going to develop all these properties?
Hoffman: One developer. Probably likely that they would sell off the different
properties for development.
Stolar: Any questions?
Hoffman: Lifetime is also, they continue to look at other parcels of property in
Chanhassen and ! spoke with a reporter from the Villager... and ! think you'll probably
see an article either this week or next week, both the Advance Fitness proposal and then
Lifetime proposal that's currently going on in the city as well.
Kelly: So they haven't given up? Lifetime hasn't given up.
Hoffman: No.
Murphy: I've never heard of Advance Fitness. Do we know if they have other properties
where they've developed other health clubs or.
Hoffman: They do not.
Murphy: No.
Stolar: Jack, do you have any questions?
Spizale: No. Just for my interest, a project like this would generate how much park
dedication fees? Or can you tell at this point.
Hoffman: 21 acres times $8,000, so $160,000.
Spizale: That's all ! got.
Stolar: Have you brushed with them the discussion about our preferring park dedication,
that there's no need for any land and they're okay with that? ! know some people
sometimes question. Have they made any points about, well if we give you the water
park land or fees.
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Hoffman: No.
Kelly: Do they say anything, well if we're going to build this internal trail, we want that
cost to come out of the park dedication fund or is the internal trail that connects to the
public trail over and above the park dedication fund?
Hoffman: Yeah, that's a private amenity on their property. It's a conceptual, but those
uses may change as well.
Stolar: So what we have in front of us is just a recommendation from staff that we
recommend park dedication fees versus any park land dedication. Do ! have a motion on
that recommendation?
Kelly: So moved.
Stolar: Second?
Spizale: Second.
Stolar: Discussion. Any comments? Tom?
Kelly: No.
Stolar: Ann? Comments.
Scharfenberg: Given the proximity to the other, to the center and all that, ! mean there's
really no need for any land right there ! wouldn't think so.
Kelly moved, Spizale seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend that park dedication fees be collected per city ordinance in lieu of
parkland dedication for the proposed Advanced Fitness Planned Unit Development.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Stolar: Todd, you wanted these back.
Hoffman: Yep. Just leave them up front, I'll collect them.
REPORTS: RECREATION PROGRAMS:
2004 4th OF JULY CELEBRATION.
Ruegemer: Thank you, good evening everybody. This item is purely informational at
this point to kind of get everybody, to put the dates on the calendar so to speak. With that
Corey's been busy with a lot of different things on the 4th as far as a lot of the details on
that. As you can see he has secured at 8 food vendors at this time, with a wide variety of
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
food opportunities for our participants for that. I know that we're looking at some
additional food vendors as well to help with the overflow crowd, as we normally do.
We'll see how that works this year being on a weekend. It may work out okay. Probably
people are going to be staying in town since it's not really a long weekend like it has in
the past years so we'll be geared up for a pretty good crowd the way it looks. The
community parade has taken on a little bit different change this year. The Chanhassen
Rotary has taken on a much larger I guess involvement with the parade. They're kind of
in the process of taking over the parade solely from the current parade committee so it
will be kind of partnering this year with the previous parade committee. Taking it over
solely in 2005 so it's kind of a training year for them. I know that we'll be involved with
the parade again this year as far as helping out as we have in the past. The route is
identical to the past, as to what we've had. It will start around Chapel Hill Academy.
Work down West 78th Street. Go up on Kerber. Head through the neighborhoods and
then back again off of Chan View, in that area. For the time they've kind of looked at
some different routes and stacking areas and that sort of thing, that does seem to kind of
work out the best at this point so they'll continue to use that location. Corey's been busy
like I said, securing food vendors and promotional materials. T-shirts. Getting the
advertising kind of lined up. A lot of that kind of stuff is in the works and flowing right
now so as you look on the back of that, just kind of a sample of the schedule of events at
this point, with the business fair. That was expanded this year to 3 hours versus 2 hours.
With the hope of kind of spreading out people during that time. The business fair, or
business expo is the old trade fair. That's kind of the new name they've taken on the last
couple three years now so, then a lot of the same kiddie parade versus party. Little typo
there. But a lot of the same events are back again. The interactive inflatable games.
Again people remember last year is that Titanic game. They basically said that night
we're coming back again next year. They had lines a mile long so that's a very popular
event. Water wars, we're going to try to get another one in here. We'll see what we can
do. I know it's a staffing issue as it has in the past but we're certainly going to try to get
another one in with that, because I know I did stand in that line myself last year with my
oldest daughter so. Speedway racing, that was a fun game as well for that so we really
did beef up our electricity needs with trenching in more power in certain areas and having
kind of big electrical panels so to speak that you can plug into so we're actually in pretty
good shape this year. CBO as you know is coming back again as that contract was
approved last year. So it should be a fun event again. The Sunday the 4th, it starts early
in the morning out at Lake Ann with the fishing contest out there. Both adults and the
kids fishing fest. The water works will be up there again in a kind of pared down
schedule as to maybe it was in the past. With the parade kind of being in the middle of
the day we've kind of shifted focus a little bit to get people back up town to get to be
involved in the parade and watch the parade up here so we've kind of backed out, maybe
some of our events out at the lake to give people an opportunity to be back up here. And
then certainly to cap off the evening the fireworks display again will be at 10:00 again at
Lake Ann so. That's it.
Stolar: Jack, you want to start with questions?
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Spizale: Yeah, I've got one thing. The only void that kind of you see is right after the
parade. ! think we talked about that before, it's kind of a dead time where everybody
races to get back home after the parade. It might be kind of fun to have something for
people to do there already up here. Maybe in our new park area, whether it was small art
show or some type of event to use maybe our new park up here.
Hoffman: The Rotary is working on that. They realize, last year they did kind of a band
entertainment and they're trying to tweak that with the available of the new park so.
Spizale: It just seems like it would help traffic too, you know. Otherwise everybody's
trying to get out of here as far as they can and that's all ! had.
Stolar: Kevin, any questions?
Dillon: None at this time.
Stolar: ! have a few. First ! want to just mention that at the City Council meeting
yesterday they approved the funding of the fireworks contract with a quick question
about why we didn't have the fireworks here at City Center Park. Kind of goes along
with your theme Jack after it ends here, why we didn't have it, and Todd expressed about
some of the legal length limits that you need between the fireworks shooting off and the
audiences and buildings and things like that, but they did pass it. Now also, are we going
to mention the farmer's market in our agenda? Has that been finalized yet that the
farmer's market is going to be the 3rd?
Hoffman: Pretty close but we should put it in there.
Stolar: Okay. There's going to be a farmer's market right out here starting this summer
and we're trying to, not quite a grand opening but trying to play it up. It will be open
before the 3rd of July but we're all talking on the commission that it'd be nice to
incorporate it since we've got the 3rd of July having all these activities to incorporate it in.
Kind of a grand opening celebration for it. We're all excited about that. Just for the
business fair, to give a head's up to new members. We're asked to work various aspects
of this night so, but the business fair, are we going to have a booth again for the Park and
Rec Commission?
Ruegemer: Would you guys like to again?
Stolar: ! think if there's space. I'd want to give opportunity to, speaking only for myself,
not the commission but if it fills up I'd rather others have the opportunity with their
space. ! thought it was good to promote our parks. And again, if we had the survey cards
again. ! know it kind of dwindled a little bit last year. Remember we got replies but !
think this year if we have a lot of traffic, it'd be nice to, on a Saturday to get some
feedback. ! think that was all ! had.
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Kelly: The only thing ! was going to ask if possible, is it possible to keep the lights on a
little longer at Lake Ann post fireworks so, the park lights went out pretty quickly and it
takes some people it would take about half hour to get out of the lot, you're really
wedged back in there.
Ruegemer: I was surprised because normally we shut them off on our way out so.
Hoffman: It was a mistake last year, yeah.
Kelly: Okay.
Ruegemer: We'll make sure that that's.
Kelly: Okay, that's my only comment. I'm looking forward to it.
Murphy: Where are we signing up to work?
Ruegemer: We'll have a volunteer sheet. Probably either at the May or June meeting.
And Corey will give you a call I'm sure as well.
Stolar: The things we usually do, we do the business fair and then we also have a raffle
booth that we staff and t-shirt sales. So those are the three main things.
EASTER EGG CANDY HUNT EVALUATION.
Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Stolar. Easter candy hunt was Saturday, April l0th out at the
Rec Center. Had about 800 kids and parents. It was a great event again this year.
Turned out to be a nice morning. It wasn't super warm, but it wasn't raining so the sun
was out a little bit so we had the event outside and that seems to really help with the flow
of the events. Last year it was raining. We did kind of do trick and treat style as you
walked up but this year we were fortunate enough to have everything out north of the Rec
Center, kind of out by the warming house. Out there. Had a nice big area coned off.
Something new we did this year, we kind of had a stacking area where we kind of had it
separated out by age group kind of when you walked up. We had everybody kind of
holding in one spot just to, we're talking about the parking lot where the little island is
out in front of the Rec Center on the east side. That grassy area. It's kind of where we
stacked up people. Separated out kind of by age and then had the appropriate age come
up around the candy area as it was their time. It really seemed to alleviate congestion and
confusion, even with multiple kids and eight different age groups. Seemed to work out
really good this year so we'll continue to do that again. Splatter Sisters were the
entertainment again. Had a pretty just absolutely packed gymnasium with that. Seemed
like people had come early to listen to the entertainment versus just for the candy, so that
made us happy with that but great volunteers again from the KEY Club, the Boy Scouts,
and other various staff members and that sort of thing. The Mayor was there to help out
and kind of emcee the event and kick it off so that was nice of Mayor Furlong to be there.
So it was just a fun event. We'll continue out at the Rec Center for that. We brought out
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
15,000 pieces of candy and divied that up between three age groups so it was a lot of fun.
The coloring contest had some nice entries again this year. Gave away some nice prizes
so a fun event.
Stolar: Thank you. In case you can't tell the pattern here, we just switched sides and just
go back and forth on questions. We can change that pattern if people want.
Spizale: Nope, none.
Stolar: Jerry, ! have a quick question. Do we charge admission for this?
Ruegemer: We do not.
Stolar: Okay, but we do for Halloween, for Feb Fest. We don't for 4th of July.
Ruegemer: Just certain things we do.
Stolar: Okay. And certainly with the games and all, so ! don't know, ! mean it's a good
event. A lot of people, something to consider.
Ruegemer: We have talked about that and we certainly can implement a fee into that
program. It's not a problem.
Stolar: ! mean what, Halloween's is a dollar or something.
Ruegemer: No, it's 3 or 4 now.
Stolar: 3 or 4? And we still get, we get about 600 for Halloween is it?
Ruegemer: Little bit less than that. Yeah, this is larger.
Stolar: So just something to think about to defray some of the costs. It's not a lot of
money so I'm not saying it's urgent but something to consider.
Ruegemer: Sure.
Murphy: No questions.
Dillon: No questions but a compliment. ! was there with my 7 year old daughter and !
was shocked at how many people were there. And it was very well attended and for
having as many kids there, and even my daughter who's not the most aggressive person,
candy getter in the world. ! mean she came back with a bag full of stuff so it was a lot of
quantity as well as the quality too. Nice job.
Scharfenberg: No questions.
10
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Stolar: Okay, thank you.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
RESULT OF 2004 REOUEST FOR PROPOSALS, 2004 PLAYGROUND
PROJECTS.
Hoffman: Thanks Chair Stolar, members of the commission. I wanted to give up some
thanks first of all Commissioners Spizale, Kelly, Scharfenberg, Murphy and their present
here so thank you for participating in that process. We brought back Jim Manders,
former commissioner who participated in interviews and enjoyed the evening as well. So
that was back on March 30th. The commission selected two different manufacturers to be
recommended to the City Council. On April 12th the City Council approved the
committee's recommendations for Meadow Green Park and Bandimere Park and this is
the structure that will go to Bandimere Park with a castle.
Stolar: And that's for the 2 to 5 year old.
Hoffman: And you read in your park.., magazine, one of the areas where playgrounds
get...is in the separation of age groups so this location will have a separate age group for
both. Of course that takes.., be age appropriate, that you keep them off the playgrounds
than the other one.
Stolar: And keep the 7 year olds off this.
Hoffman: So staff, we've worked with our park maintenance division to come up with a
beautiful layout that you'll really enjoy down there as far as the siting of the playground,
and this will go in over the summer. And it will have poured in place material as it states.
The second one which was approved.
Scharfenberg: Todd, can ! ask a question regarding Bandimere? ! was just down there
the other day and the, where the old site's going to go up and noted that they've got two
swings and a tire swing. Are we putting any swings down at that location to replace that
area?
Hoffman: There are no swings going down there. There are no swings at this new
location so if you would want to include swings, we would have to investigate the, either
the purchase or leaving those swings behind as we take out the remainder of the structure.
What I'll do for you is, in the audit we identified all the hazard issues and I'll take a look
specifically at Bandimere at the swings. See what the issues were and then report back
on the issue of swings at that location.
Stolar: And to go, ! didn't realize, is there a way to move. When you do that, can you
also look into the possibility of, is there room to move it next, closer to this?
Hoffman: To these locations? Probably not.
11
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Stolar: Okay, so we're stay over there.
Hoffman: We would abandon the rest of the structure and then carve off a little area for
swings down in the...place we want to put these structures up in a vertical fashion to
minimize the square footage. That stuff is $24 a square foot to put in that poured in
place, and so it costs more than the swings that you put in. Any other questions on
Bandimere? The other one selected that night was Meadow Green. Bandimere was a
Little Tikes playground. This is a playground by Playworld Systems and has a climbing
wall, continuous play, ground elements and then the swing set off to the side in this
location. And this is a wood fiber system which is about $4 a square foot. Still
considered accessible. The city standard that we would like to maintain is that all of our
community parks we'll use poured in place. It's a very clean, easily maintained material.
Nice appearance for 15-20 years, and then at our neighborhood park where we currently
have pea gravel. We have pea gravel at all of them, that has to come out. Pea gravel is
not considered an accessible resilient surfacing and will be replacing it all with...
Stolar: And are we going to have accessible swings as part of the swing?
Hoffman: All of the swings are accessible. The entire structure is accessible because the
wood fiber is all considered an accessible surface.
Stolar: Well ! meant, like I'm reading on the special swings is one of those. ! can't see
that far, sorry.
Hoffman: If we want to.
Stolar: Then what about infant swing or child swing?
Hoffman: Two of them. Two infant, two belts and a tiger.
Stolar: Okay, so the choice there eventually we would have to make, is whether we swap
out one of those types. Okay.
Hoffman: Okay?
Stolar: And is this, this is targeted at a 5 to 12 age group? Okay.
Hoffman: 2 age groups. 2 to 5 and 5 to 12. And then last night the council approved the
authorization to bid this playground for Lake Ann. We'll have numerous, multiple
bidders and at least two different companies will bid on this playground. Those are a
variety of views of the same playground. The exciting thing about this structure is that
these poles in front are 17 feet high. It's a multi deck system. It has very good access
and then goes immediately into a ground level, first deck level and then upper level
attached with series. Children love to play chase on these structures and they'll do a very
good job with the structure to go from one level to the other, and then get back down on
12
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
this side by coming back down on this tube slide. Right at this location. It's a great
design and great play structure.
Kelly: ! think the thing that some of us liked about this was the visibility. You can really
see the kids in most areas in the play structure. The competing one had a lot of tunnels
and not again that were you wouldn't be able to see the kids. At least that's what swayed
it for me was this was more open.
Hoffman: ! think we're going to catch adults up here watching softball games. Great
look out. And again poured in place material and this will be installed during the month
of August.
Kelly: Is the bidders, is one of them the bidders that person that came in to present that to
us, will he be.
Hoffman: Little Tikes. Little Tikes and Playworld System also will bid it. The supplier
of the Meadow Green structure and ! have maybe others as well.
Kelly: But they would put in this equipment even if was.
Hoffman: No, they'll all bid this structure. And there could be up to 3 or 4 bidders
depending on what happens. These components are fairly universal. There will be a few
items that don't match exactly and they'll have to disclose that and then it's up to the
owner to make the determination. If that's equivalent. If they happen to be the low
bidder.
Stolar: That was in the materials yesterday.
Kelly: Do you have to take the low bid?
Hoffman: We have to take the low bid, qualified bid. So let's say somebody just does a
poor job of meeting the specification but they happen to be low... It's going to be a big
improvement over what's out there now.
Murphy: This had the poured in place surface. Is that kind of a spongy feel to it so in
case of a fall it's quite a bit safer than the gravel? Is that correct?
Hoffman: All of them have equivalent resiliency depending on the depth, and what
happens with pea gravel, it gets dished out and so you start with a foot but getting down
to 4 inches in some areas and what's great about the poured in place is that it's uniform
all the time. So falls to the surface count for the vast majority of playground injuries. If
you can guarantee that there's always going to be sufficient resilient material there,
you're odds of injuries go way down.
Stolar: Because they do have a triple decker there, does that mean we have to go to a
greater depth?
13
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Hoffman: Yeah, the depth will increase. Now before that at two layers, the first layer is
the all block and the top layer is the color layer. It's about an inch thick. And Bandimere
is only the current location.
Dillon: What's it made out of?.
Hoffman: Rubber.
Dillon: What happens, how does the water drain?
Hoffman: Right down through.
Dillon: And then into the ground? ! mean it doesn't pool up.
Hoffman: No. It goes into a concrete container which is drained so the water goes right
down through into the drains and out into the drain tile. It'd be a concrete pool poured
with this. Most of the elements would be mounted, surfaced mounted with a plate. Some
will be augered with a hole cut through the concrete. A few of the posts and then come
back in and pour the rubber right in after that. And the first layer is the less expensive, all
block and then we put the color lay on top.
Murphy: And who does that work? Is that our city?
Hoffman: We'll have 3 different contracts. One for the equipment. The purchase.
We'll install equipment. Second contract is for all the concrete, which will be a local
concrete company that will bid on those, and then the third will be for the poured in place
and a variety of these playground manufacturers also rep poured in place material and
they'll bid on that as well.
Dillon: So Todd does the pea gravel have to come out of all the parks?
Hoffman: Yep, over time. So in the next 3 years we'll replace 10 of those as a part of
this replacement and then we'll start incorporating the rest.
Dillon: And that gets the wood fiber.
Hoffman: Wood fiber at the neighborhood parks and then we want to continue with
poured in place. Next year ! think we're doing Lake Susan. That will be all poured in
place. Lake Ann will have poured in place and Bandimere. The really high use areas,
high visibility areas where there's a lot of use. Wood fiber also kicks out and so you
have to have daily maintenance on it to maintain it's resiliency. And in these
neighborhood park settings, you can spend a great deal of time in trying to go back and
maintain that, and so if you put poured in place in, you walk away and you shouldn't
have to come back for 15 years to mess with that material. That's a big time saver over
that time. As you know wood rots. In about 3 years you have to replace.., and every day
14
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
during the summer you have to maintain it to some extent so. We're excited and our park
maintenance crew is happy to be working on the project. For their involvement we
increased our purchasing power by about $20,000 to $25,000.
Stolar: Any other questions? No? I just had a couple of quick things. One for the
commission. City Council yesterday talked a little bit about our park playground
replacement schedule and just wanted to confirm the approach being 3 years versus 5.
There wasn't much discussion about it. It was pretty late in the evening but, and ! think
that's a good sign of the support that they're having for expediting over the CIE So !
think that's, thank you to the people who participated in the committee and Todd and the
City Council. It's been one of my pet projects when ! joined was to try and get these
playgrounds replaced and ! think it's great news. I'm very excited. The other thing is !
think, if you get a chance, we ought to see if we can get the Villager out there as we're
doing one to do a story because ! think this is one of those good news things that, you
know and ! think the creativity of the City Council and yourself and city staff to figure
out how to do this versus some of the challenges we were facing ! thought was great, so
thank you.
Hoffman: You bet. When people wake up and go, discover that new structure at Lake
Ann, there will be some positive comments. It's an exciting play structure.
Stolar: It's great news. Okay. Any other?
PROGRESS REPORT ON HIGHWAY 41 TRAIL CONNECTOR.
Hoffman: Chair Stolar, members of the commission. This is a CIP project for this year.
It goes from Pulte Homes, actually a little farther south than there at Highway 41 and
Coulter, what's the north road? Century, thank you. Is that Century? West 78th Street.
Ruegemer: Towards Pulte?
Hoffman: West 78th Street. West 78th and 41, that intersection right there. It starts there
and then goes north past Pulte and then up to the Longacres neighborhood, right in the
ditch section of Highway 41 on the east side. And we're working with two property
owners. We want to make sure that the commission is kept up to date on what's going
on. If you read through these, they go from most recent and then back in chronological
order. So the day, April 16th, 10 days ago, a revised sign with two property owners.
Contact was made with MnDot. Wetland boundaries have been delineated and the small
marsh on the north side of the trail has been delineated. So we are in constant
communication with the property owners. They have had input on the plan which they
feel is a favorable plan in both instances. We're working with the Geske's and the
Olson's at that location. The first final plan from the engineer will be available probably
towards the end of this week, and then as we continue to move forward with the project,
the final design of plans and specs and then taking to the City Council and contractors
and construction probably sometime in June or July.
15
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Stolar: Any questions?
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
Stolar: So we had the playground committee. ! don't know if anyone wants to add
anything to that.
Spizale: ! think it got covered pretty good.
Stolar: Yeah. Any other committee reports?
Kelly: The Dave Huffman Run is going to be September 11th and for those of you who
don't know, there's a 5K run that Chanhassen, that happens in the city sponsored by the
Americlnn. You go through the Americlnn. You take a bus to the starting which is at
Lake Ann and then you run back to the Americlnn and you go over the foot bridge, and
besides the adult run there's also a kids run that happens after the adult run. That's a half
mile and quarter mile. ! don't know if there's anything else to add to that. ! don't know
Jerry, ! think that's about it.
Stolar: Anything to add on the Huffman Run?
Ruegemer: No. Just that we've been meeting. Hopefully have some new shirt designs at
your next meeting. Another meeting coming up May 6th? 7?
Kelly: ! think so. You know there's a local run that's happening in late May, both an
adult, it's an adult 10K and it's a kids half K or full mile and it's in one of our
neighboring cities.
Murphy: Chaska?
Kelly: It is Chaska.
Murphy: ! think ! know what you're talking about.
Kelly: Okay, ! saw it in the Villager. Sponsored by Home Depot. Have we talked to
them at all about...
Ruegemer: Yes we have.
Murphy: Getting a list of.
Kelly: Of their runners as potential as a mailing for our's.
Ruegemer: We're in the driver seat on that one Tom. They want our list.
Kelly: Oh okay. ! didn't know, thank you.
16
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Stolar: Any other committees? I don't know if we have any other committees. I think
that' s it.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Stolar: I'll just quickly update on the remaining items from the City Council that we
didn't discuss. They did approve the Miracles for Mitch Foundation Kids Triathlon. The
variances, I think there's still some discussion to go on about specifics, as I'm sure Jerry
will tell you but you should see copies around here and I think that that's a great activity
and I guess something that this commission ought to think about how we want to, if we
want to be involved at all and how big. They're doing it on their own. There's going to
be some need for help from the city. Jerry, I guess it's all up to you to see if there's
anything we can do to help but certainly I think we had mentioned at our last meeting
we'd like them to come back to us as it gets closer. It's going to be August 22nd, and I
thought it was a pretty good layout of the run and the Viking. I still personally am
nervous about them not setting a maximum for this first year. I know they made a
comment to that yesterday. I would us to try it first before we go too far but I think it's
just a great presentation yesterday and great cause and hopefully we'll invite them back.
Tony and Steve.
Ruegemer: Mitch's father.
Stolar: Mitch's father was there at the City Council, yep. And have them come talk to us
again. I'm trying to think if there was one other. Is there any other point from the City
Council meeting. I think that was it. Fireworks.
Hoffman: And the Lake Ann purchase. Miracles for Mitch.
Stolar: Yep, those were the three. They pulled them all.
Hoffman: I get the feeling this Miracles for Mitch event could gain momentum over the
years. They have a national sponsor in Culvers and Timberwolves.
Stolar: Oh, that's right. I'm sorry, yeah. They have the Timberwolves sponsorship.
Culver's may send a team. Culver's will be donating, at least in Iowa, Wisconsin and
Minnesota 10 percent of their sales to Miracles for Mitch on May 17th, SO if you were
planning on going to Culver's, that would be the day to go. Great foundation. Great
cause. And then I also obviously I think we might want to talk to them about sharing lists
for the Huffman Run, or at least promoting it. There will be a lot of parents there.
Hoffman: And something for the new commissioners. When Chair Stolar is making his
report, you'll be assigned a council meeting as we go through the 7 members, so every 7th
time you'll be asked to attend a council meeting in the event there are park and recreation
related items on there. You'll receive an agenda in your mail and a copy of all the park
and recreation items, and then you're expected to attend. The council encourages you to
17
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
attend their work sessions, just as an FYI and informational and those start about 5:30
typically and then the regular meeting starts at 7:00. You attend that meeting. Follow the
dialogue. Answer any questions if they have any questions of commissioners and then
you bring back the information back to the commission. It's just a way of keeping the
communication between the two groups a little closer.
Dillon: How frequently do they have those meetings?
Hoffman: Twice a week.
Stolar: Twice a month.
Hoffman: Excuse me, twice a month. Thank you.
Murphy: So we're rotating through?
Hoffman: I'll give you updates, yeah.
Stolar: Yeah, if you could e-mail the updated schedule to everyone, that would be great.
And then we do swap if you can't make one call one of the fellow commissioners, or call
Todd. And I'd say what, about 50 percent you don't have anything. Maybe even more
than that. You don't have anything on the agenda.
Murphy: Are they always Monday' s?
Hoffman: Monday nights.
Stolar: I was trying to think ifI had anything else. The only other, it's not a presentation,
just a point. Something ! saw a lot of these on spring break that ! thought would be of
interest. One of the issues that has surfaced back and forth over the time, I'm sure Todd
could talk more about it, is a dog park. And ! was actually at a place where they had an
interesting thing. It wasn't officially called this but unofficially called the puppy party.
They took a part of a city park and during a certain time it was dedicated to just dogs.
And they had a board and a committee and a chair person and they were responsible for
cleaning it up and everything. We actually went there, of course ! had to investigate,
after they had one of their events. Went there. It was completely clean.
Murphy: Where was this?
Stolar: This was in South Carolina. Just something to think about. It was very
interesting and they gather, you know we were playing ball beforehand so we had to
leave because we didn't want to play ball while the dogs were there but it was an
interesting concept and all formalized and people, they have a chair person so if the city
needed to do anything they could call. So if it comes back up, something to suggest, that
if they form their own group, maybe we could set aside a part of a park that they could
use.
18
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Murphy: New York City does that too.
Hoffman: The Friends of the Library are going to have a barkus parade. New Orleans
dog parade, so that will take place on August 14th. They'll gather in the top side of City
Hall. Organize the parade. They'll parade down the steps where they'll have
introductions and announcements and parade back around the other side of city hall and
back up so they expect this to be a large event as well and believe me, dog owners are an
enthusiastic bunch and they'll have plenty of people there.
Stolar: Is the library going to take responsibility for clean-up too?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Stolar: Making sure on that.
Hoffman: The Girl Scouts are taking responsibility.
Ruegemer: What's the theme? Make tracks to the library.
Hoffman: Make tracks to the library. First year anniversary.
Stolar: That's interesting. Any other commission member points? Announcements.
Dillon: ! just had a question on that dog park thing that you saw. Was that fenced in?
Stolar: No, it was open. It would probably be about a full softball field big. It was pretty
nice size.
Scharfenberg:: Did they let the dogs run around or did they have to be on a leash?
Stolar: They let them run around. It was not a high traffic area.
Murphy: But there was no fence?
Stolar: No fence. But even you'd see, the funniest part was you saw like a couple of
dogs were just sitting there waiting for their friends to get there. They weren't running
around or anything. They were just sitting there waiting by where the cars parked. It was
pretty interesting. ! saw it for a whole week because they actually did it every day
between 3:00 and 5:00 every day. So it was pretty interesting. ! should have taken video.
! didn't have my video camera. Other questions?
Murphy: Has anyone ever considered that land around Kerber Pond for a dog park or
dog area? Has that already been talked about?
Stolar: Did you ask to officially talk about a dog park or just?
19
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Hoffman: The idea of a dog park has been around for a long time and we just don't have
an area of property that we feel is physically, fits the needs of a dog park and
neighborhood. Has parking and security and the landscaping and the area. There's not
sufficient parking at Kerber Pond Park. There's probably not sufficient property out at,
what we would call a typical neighborhood area. Typically these are in industrial park
areas. Large community parks. Some place where you're not near a neighborhood
location, so we look at all our parks, Lake Ann, Susan, etc, etc and right now the closest
thing to a dog park being planned is at the Minnewashta Regional. They have it on their
master plan. A very nice setting, but they just need the funding. In fact ! know Marty
Walsh the Carver County Parks Director has expressed, if the city wants to buck up and
partner with us, they're willing to talk to expedite the process.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Hoffman: Some fairly interesting correspondence.
Stolar: Yes it was.
Scharfenberg: ! saw the notes from the March meeting that there was reference to a letter
that Jack Jensen had submitted on behalf of the CAA. Is it possible to get a copy of that
letter?
Hoffman: Sure.
Kelly: Because he actually make a point of, we had a practice, into a practice last week
for 6 and 7 year olds and he made a point about that to all the parents around about a lack
of not being able to look at some of the Chaska fields so ! know he's very, ! mean he
definitely has strong views about that.
Scharfenberg: ! know it's come up this year because ! think they have, at the last minute
was there something that happened that a couple fields got pulled potentially. That they
had to reschedule or do something. At least that's what ! had heard.
Hoffman: We made some changes in their schedule.
Ruegemer: Are you talking about the city of Chanhassen or the City of Chaska?
Scharfenberg: I'm not sure which one it was. All ! know is ! heard that some fields got
pulled or something like that so there was, caused some problems with some scheduling
and stuff like that.
Hoffman: We had to take some fields away in Chan, so they were hoping to get those in
Chaska. They did not get them in Chaska so then they were short.
Stolar: Okay. Jerry, did you get any calls?
20
Park and Rec Commission - April 27, 2004
Ruegemer: Yeah, ! got a few. Are you referring to the portable restroom?
Stolar: Yes.
Ruegemer: Yeah ! think ! got probably 40 plus. Because people are very passionate
about their bathroom at Carver Beach so. There is one that was delivered last Friday, the
23rd SO all is well in Carver Beach.
Hoffman: It was a big issue. The mayor came in and talked to staff about it and portable
restrooms were put back in any location that had one last year, so that was, or excuse me.
Power Hill and Carver Beach were the only two that had them last year and were not
scheduled to get one this year. Reductions, if you take a look at Lake Ann, we're
probably down from 10 to 5 so we're still not out of the woods yet on complaints.
Stolar: Into the woods might be answer.
Hoffman: Once all the parks start to be mobilized and people start accessing the
facilities, they're going to have there's only half as many there as last year so. The
budget went from $21,000 to $15,000.
Stolar: And so for the ones that were restored, where did that money come from? We're
just going to have to find it elsewhere?
Hoffman: It's about $1,200.
Stolar: Alright.
Kelly: Will the paint ball thing ever be revisited do you think by the City Council or?
No?
Hoffman: Private company needs to come to town. Build a splat ball course.
Scharfenberg: When was that outlawed, or whatever the word is? Paint ball, when was
that ordinance put in effect that you weren't supposed to do that.
Hoffman: It's never been legal. So it's always been non-permitted.
Stolar: Alright. Any other questions? If not, can ! hear a motion for adjournment.
Kelly moved, Spizale seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
21