CC Minutes 9-27-04
City Council Meeting - September 27, 2004
Mayor Furlong: It's been made and seconded. Any discussion? Just one point of
clarification, that the findings of fact would be modified...
Councilman Lundquist: The amended findings of fact as requested, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. With that, if there's no further discussion.
Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Labatt seconded that the City Council
denies the amendment to the Planned Unit Development (PUD #92-6) development
design standards to permit retail uses based on the amended findings of fact and
recommendation attached to this report. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to O.
REQUEST FOR AN INTERIM USE PERMIT FOR GRADING AND
RESTORA TION OF THE MOON V ALLEY GAVEL MINE. REA TRICE
ZWIERS.
Bob Generous: Thank you Mr. Mayor, council members. This is a request for an interim
use permit for a grading permit for the restoration of the Moon Valley mining operation
out on 212 and south of the regional trail system. This mining has been going on for
many years and now we're looking at reclaiming the site and preparing it for future
development. This area doesn't come into the urban service area until 2015 under the
current comprehensive plan. However there are major erosion issues going on on the site
and the developer, with the development of the top part of this property, the Settlers West
development, is looking at reclaiming this area. It's a little hard to see but the...there are
steep, almost vertical cliffs that are in there that were created through the mining
operation. When it rains everything washes down to the bottom. The site was also used
for a gun range over many years. At one time it was even a ski resort but now they're
coming in with a grading plan that would create a 2 V2 to 1 slope on both sides and create
a bowl within the middle. Previously there was a settlement agreement between the city
and the property owner to regrade the site. Reclaim it after the mining operation was
completed. However that operation or that plan allowed them to go into the northwest
comer of the site. Between the Planning Commission and now we did have the DNR
Forester come out and look at the quality of the woods on that. He was very impressed
with the woods actually north, in the northwest comer and on the property to the north of
this in this bowl area, which is in some land that the city is receiving as a dedication
through the Settlers West development. However as you move south he said that the type
of trees in there, there's a bigger variety of trees so they had small ones and big ones so it
wasn't as high a quality of development and so he felt that yes, the trees have some value
but it's not as valuable as the portions that are saving. The other issue that came up as
part of the Planning Commission was flooding on 212. We did look at the low point on
that and that is actually east of this site so if flooding did become an issue, it's closer to
Dell Road that would flood so they'd still be able to exit the site and go to the west. Staff
is recommending approval of the grading plan for this site and then they have a small
area to the west. We are recommending that they revise the westerly portion of this and
pull the grading area back to the 756 contour, which means that when they grade
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City Council Meeting - September 27,2004
everything east of that, that's graded would drain to the east into the ponding area that we
have and everything on the west would just go naturally. There won't be any current
impacts in that area, so we believe this is a slightly better plan. It also creates a more
natural area within the middle. When this area comes in in the future for development
review, then they don't lose that area as part of calculating their overall developable area,
but it will be in a more pristine state. As part of the restoration of this, not only are we
giving seeding and blanket to eliminate or control erosion, but we're having them replant
the slopes with the root stock, small trees in a 7 foot area so they can stagger it up the hill
and this will provide additional footing for the dirt so that erosion issues don't become a
problem on that. The quantities involved are higher because this is a south facing slope.
It's a hotter and drier environment and so the trees that we're proposing do have a
tendency to survive in that type of environment. As we say, we are recommending
approval. I did provide you with a copy of a revision to condition 4. As part of this the
applicant is to provide us with a security for the grading of this site. What this condition
does is modify it. It's only for that stage of the grading that's taking place that we will
require the security so whatever phase, if they're only going to grade a quarter of the site
at one time, then that, we take 110 percent of that amount to make sure that that grading
and restoration takes place. This is, we're recommending approval for a 5 year period.
We believe that this can be restored within that timeframe. With that I'd be happy to
answer any questions.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Question on this proposed change for
item 4. I guess my question is, since this is a multi year project, and we haven't heard
from Mr. Herbst yet but knowing his experience that if he says he's going to do
something, he's going to do it. At the same time situations change and I guess my
question is, if we're just taking the escrow and this is a question of the project itself, for
that year, if something doesn't happen, or if they can't continue and they're part way
through the 5 year project, don't we need to make sure that the whole project gets done
from an erosion and from a storm water standpoint?
Kate Aanenson: That's a good question. Let me just kind of reframe a little bit to how
we got to this point. Settlers West came in, we spent a lot of time discussing whether or
not we would let that top area be serviced. One of the benefits that we saw allowing the
top be serviced is to clean up the bottom. There was a settlement agreement with Mr.
Zwiers who owned a portion of the site and this grading plan goes well beyond that. Part
of that settlement agreement did not include landscaping and restoration of slope. Just re-
grading. Over time the operation of the gravel pit, that pretty much ceased and
significant erosion has taken place including the ponding that should be in place, so
because the applicant has the top piece, there's a lot of incentive which goes back to your
question. We get the bottom part cleaned up. They're tied together with the underlying
property owner, Mr. Zwiers, so Mr. Herbst, the Pemtom development has the incentive in
order to sell those lots and requirements to make that happen. There's certain
performance measures that have to come in place right away which would be the ponding
and the initial landscaping but because it is a 5 year interim use, we believe that the cash
in place should be, it can only be exposing so much at a certain point that that would be
accomplished. If you look at the volume of trees as Bob indicated, you know we're
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City Council Meeting - September 27, 2004
looking at 20,000 trees and I think at first the applicant was almost fell over, there's
20,000 trees but we actually worked pretty hard to find some of these root bound through
the DNR to get those prices down so actually it's trying to work really hard to make this
cost effective for everybody because it is, there's lead down there. There's some other
hazardous things that we're working to get rid so it's a win on everybody's part again
because he's a developer on the top side, the incentive is such. But I believe that the way
that we've got the interim use set up for the 5 years, and the money that we're taking up
front and those performance measures, that should all be accomplished...
Mayor Furlong: And I guess, right. And yeah, one of the benefits of going forward with
the development up on the bluff, up on top was the, this right here. You know coming
back with the grading plan so I guess I'm just you know financially with taking 100
percent, 110 percent of the year's work, obviously there's cash implications and, to the
developer but are we covered to make sure that all 5 years get done, and maybe that's.
Okay.
Kate Aanenson: .. .but that part that's already exposed and kind of eroding, I mean that's
the part that will get the vegetation on sooner. Kind of first phase. The other parts are
really going to be the rolling parts that you're going to be removing some vegetation so
the worst part is kind of what we're addressing first, and within that there's also
environmental issues that we're going to be working with them to help and you'll be
seeing a resolution regarding that. The clean-up of some of the lead. That there's going
to be some time spent on just even that portion before we can move forward so only good
things are going to happen because of this interim use and getting it right as Bob
mentioned, to come in for future development. To get the property in such a format.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. One other question with regard to the plan here, and
this is, it does expand the developable area relative to the prior plan which was just basic
plan without trying to do anything but what erosion, as I understand it. In terms of
maximizing development area at the expense of the natural resources, very specifically
trees or maximizing the natural resources at the expense of development or somewhere in
the middle. Where does this grading plan fall?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, that's a great question. You know when we originally looked at
this, I think the applicant was hoping that as part of the site plan we could just approve
kind of the modification of the grading plan and our interest of always full disclosure to
the neighbors on what's going in and we felt like we need to go back and go beyond what
the original court order was, the settlement agreement and say you know we wanted full
disclosure on the entire property that the Zwiers family owns. In order to balance that to
make it work, we walked outside. We spent a lot of time reviewing it. We actually took
the Planning Commission out there to understand the scale of the slopes, so really in
looking at having not only our forester out there but the DNR forester go out to really
examine the quality of the trees and what can be, I think we struck a really good balance
of preserving what is significant. Whether it's slopes or trees as Bob indicated. We've
asked them to pull back on the creek. There's a beautiful creek that runs through there.
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City Council Meeting - September 27, 2004
To move away from that a little bit and then providing enough impetus that those costs of
grading and re-establishing of that slope provides a developable plan in the future.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any other questions for staff?
Councilman Labatt: Yep. Bob, can you just on that map, just point out where' s the green
building. The main, the old mining operation building.
Bob Generous: They're right as you come into the entrance.
Councilman Labatt: Okay, and then the red range house where the shots are fired from.
Bob Generous: That's in this area also. Right in here.
Councilman Labatt: Okay. And then can you just outline the rim, kind of expose the
northwest rim of the current pit right now as it exists. You know you had that one edge
there's about a 80 foot, 90 foot drop.
Bob Generous: Yeah, it drops all the way down here. This is the area right here.
Councilman Labatt: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: But isn't the dark gray Bob, the area where they've already graded? Or
pulled material out.
Bob Generous: No, this will be where they re, well they have, all this is rough.
Todd Gerhardt: Right.
Bob Generous: .. .This is the top of the slope. That will come up to the property lines so
what they need to do is try to make that 2 to 1 slope.
Todd Gerhardt: Right. The material has been taken out of that top portion.
Bob Generous: Up into here and over. ..
Councilman Labatt: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions for staff? If not, would Mr. Herbst, the
applicant, would you like to address the council on anything?
Dan Herbst: Honorable Mayor, members of the City Council, professional staff, Dan
Herbst at 7640 Crimson Bay in Chanhassen and Justin Larson also with me from Sathre-
Berquist. First of all I want to thank all the effort that's gone into this. It was out of your
MUSA and your staff has done just a fantastic job. I think everyone of your members of
your staff have been on the site on a couple occasions from trees to environmental to
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City Council Meeting - September 27, 2004
planning to engineering and everybody's really worked hard on this. We also had a great
meeting with the Planning Commission out at the site. The good news is, for the city, is
that we're going to get this erosion stopped. We're going to shut down the range. We've
got the antenna tower down and also the good news up on the upper bluff, we hope to be
building you some beautiful homes out there generating some park fees, building fees and
some real estate revenues for you real soon out there next year so. Back down to the
lower part, we are pushing the envelope here a little bit based on, as you pointed out, as
far as wanting to create more of the site for usable land than was in your restoration plan
that you have with the settlement with the owner, but I think you really took the first step
with this, when you did your comprehensive plan and you guided that area for high
density housing with some mixed use of office and industrial further on the piece to the
west. And I've asked the planning staff when they're out there, and I asked you in the
letter that I addressed to you that eventually we'd like to come back to you and, without
impacting any additional trees that we're talking about protecting tonight, but push the
envelope a little bit further so that there would be enough building area there so that you
could really have something very creative for the city. I think traffic can be handled on
212 in that location. I think we can handle the drainage very well, but I think if we could,
this permit allows about 18 acres of usable land but I think in the future we'd like to
come back to you, if you're open to it. The Planning Commission was, to maybe look at
even 25 acres of the land so that we could get 2 or 3 different housing products down on
that site with some creativity to it. With some mixed use. With some buffering, and
really do something, and I compared it to, in a small scale to what the City of Edina did
with the old Hedberg gravel pit, and everything was going on at that operation also from
cement to restoration to mining, but the City said you know we're not going to look at all
the trees and the bluff and all this kind of stuff on this site. We're going to do something
extremely creative here and they create a lot of incentives to do the different type of
housing that the city needed at that time which was people working at the hospital. For
people working at the shopping center that couldn't afford to live any other place in
Edina and I think if we could get some density that you have on your comprehensive
plan. Not exceed that, because you're looking at high density as you're guided, and we
can push the envelope a little bit to areas such as this area here. The tree quality is very
poor and it would require coming back to you with a plan and go through your staff and
Planning Commission but I just wanted to plant that seed because I think there is a
chance here to, the views down there. I mean if you turn to the north, I mean you want to
regurgitate because the site's been graded for 70 years. The shooting. The mining.
Everything's been going on there. The erosion is bad but if you turn and get yourself up
on some of those plateaus and start looking out to the south and a little bit to the east and
west, it's a fantastic site. And if we can create the right plateaus down there, get a mix
use of housing. Maybe even have something down there to serve their needs as far as
shopping, dairy store or something down there. I think down the road when you're
looking at your 2008 comp plan amendment, we'd like to come back to you with some
schematics to really do something nice down there. Not just plop in 200 housing units on
18 acres so. To answer your question Mr. Mayor on the financial incentive, I think every
year the incentive for the widow here is she's hoping, it's going to be very costly for her
to restore this site. The lead is substantial as far as not that it's a big environmental issue
but it's spread out pretty good there. They had a pistol range, they had a rifle range and
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City Council Meeting - September 27, 2004
they had a skeet and a trap range so the area that got, the area that got these little pellets
all over it is pretty substantial so it's going to cost her a lot of money to do that. The
incentive for her is to sell off some of this fill in the future and the permit is for 1.8
million cubic yards coming out so I think you have the carrot in front of her that every
year if she's not compliant, this is not being done properly, the erosion's not being taken
care of, you shut that permit down and she's lost her right to sell off an awful lot of
material. And during the first 3 years, the reason we ask for a 5 year deal, I think she's
going to have a very difficult time the next 2 years. When 312 goes in, they're talking
about up to 2 million cubic yards of excess material as they carve 312 below you know
Dell Road, below 101. There's an awful lot of material going to be on the marketplace
next year so if you've got any big holes you want to fill next 2 years would be the time to
do it so I think she's going to have a hard time, we can start the erosion deal. We can
start doing the planting here but I think as far as her marketability of this material, it's
going to be tough for the next year or 2 but then she's got it right, but I think you'll have
the, you'll have a real hammer here if she's, if we're not doing the right thing here, to
shut that permit down so she will not be able to sell that material off and that's going to
be a great financial disincentive for her and give you the carrot you need to get the job
done so, are there any questions?
Mayor Furlong: No? Thank you.
Dan Herbst: Again our whole process was something you didn't have to deal with and I
really thank you for doing this. The staff time involved, planning and your staff, but I
think the end result's going to be great but I really appreciate all the time. Thank you
very much.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and we appreciate your vision and what can be done in an
area that's, we've struggled with for many years as a city so we thank you as well. Very
good, I'll bring it back to council for discussion. Comments.
Councilman Peterson: Make it so.
Mayor Furlong: Good deal. Everybody's winning.
Councilman Peterson: I approve as staff is recommending.
Councilman Ayotte: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded that the City Council
approves Interim Use Permit Case #04-27 to permit grading, excavation and slope
restoration as proposed on the plans prepared by Sathre-Berquist, Inc., dated
7/16/04, subject to the following conditions:
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City Council Meeting - September 27, 2004
1. The interim use permit shall be approved for a period of five (5) years from the
date of City Council approval. Annually the grading permit must be renewed.
The applicant will need to request a formal extension 60 days prior to the
expiration date of the permit.
2. The existing buildings and outbuildings and any septic system or wells on site
shall be abandoned in accordance with City and/or State codes.
3. The applicant shall perform a Phase I Environmental Audit of the property to
determine if the gun range or other site operations have environmentally impacted
the property.
4. The applicant must provide the City with a cash escrow or letter of credit in the
amount of 100% of the construction costs for the appropriate phase of the grading
operations to guarantee erosion control measures, site restoration and compliance
with the interim use permit.
5. Permits from the appropriate regulatory agency must be obtained; including but
not limited to the MPCA and MnDot.
6. Details for the proposed pond outlets shall be submitted for review by the City.
7. On-site ponding shall be adjusted, if necessary, at the time of site development to
meet the City's requirements for proposed build-out conditions.
8. If erosion control measures installed in conjunction with this interim use permit
are deemed by the City to be effective, the City shall inform the applicant in
writing of any deficiencies. The applicant shall work with the City to remedy the
deficiencies in a timely manner.
9. Stabilization of the toe (first 150 feet of the slope) shall be completed
immediately upon final grade. Stabilization shall be done in phases. Large
portions of the site shall not be left exposed over weekends or during forecasted
heavy rains.
10. The slopes shall be tracked with a dozer at all times. The dozer shall be run
perpendicular to the slope to track the slope.
11. The northeast "comer" of the slope (north of soil boring 18, south of soil boring
14 and inbetween soil borings 10 and 15) shall be stabilized so as to promote long
term stability. This may include a terrace, turf reinforcement mat and slope drain.
12. All blankets installed on site shall be properly applied. The blankets shall make
100% contact with the soil, stapled according to manufacturer's specifications and
head trenched.
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City Council Meeting - September 27, 2004
13. Geotextile and riprap or geogrids or other approved stabilization shall be used to
provide toe protection.
14. The seed mix specified (MN DOT 500) shall be changed to MN DOT Native Mix
340 (Sandy Mid Height, dry conditions- i.e. south facing slope). An application
rate of 16 pounds per acre is recommended (20 pounds per acre for hydoseeding
or broadcasting).
15. Silt fence shall be installed at least 25 feet away from the toe of the slope to
provide storage and allow the silt fence to function properly. As stated on the
plan, the temporary sediment basins shall be installed prior to grading activities.
Berms may be needed to divert runoff into the basins along TH 212.
16. The applicant must provide a proposed haul route for review and approval.
17. If the excess material is hauled to another site in Chanhassen, a separate grading
permit will be required for the other property.
18. All disturbed areas as a result of construction are required to be reseeded and
mulched within two weeks of site grading.
19. The applicant must pay the City an administration fee of $7,124 prior to the City
signing the permit.
20. Add the benchmark to the plan that was used for the site survey.
21. End the grading on the eastern side of the creek at the proposed high-point
elevation in the usable area of 756.
22. In the future, when a development proposal is submitted, drainage and utility
easements over the ponds and creek will be required.
23. Add Type I silt fence in the southeast comer of the site around the grading limits
and around the proposed pond outlet.
24. Permitted hours of operation will be 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Monday through
Friday, and 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday with no work permitted on Sunday
or legal holidays.
25. Appropriate signage for hauling along TH 212 is required.
26. Tree preservation fencing must be installed at the edge of grading limits.
27. MN DOT N ati ve Mix 340 be used for the seeding.
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City Council Meeting - September 27,2004
28. All restored slope shall be planted with trees. The trees shall be bare-root, native
species, one-half to one inch in diameter, five to ten foot spacing in a random
pattern from the top to the toe of the slope. The approximate number of trees
needed is 20,000 (7' x 7' spacing).
Spacing (feet)
5x5
6x6
7x7
8x8
10 x 10
Trees per acre
1,742
1,210
889
681
436
29. A driveway access to 230 & 240 Erie Avenue must be maintained at all times
during construction.
30. Submit a plan showing a permanent driveway access alignment for 230 & 240
Erie A venue.
31. The harvesting of timber shall be limited to the area within the grading limits.
32. The applicant's engineer must work with city staff to revise the drainage
calculations per city standards and NURP requirements.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to O.
COUNCIL PRESENT A TIONS:
Councilman Ayotte: On a light note, I'd like to ask ifMr. Justin Miller could sit
someplace else besides right where he is underneath that light with an orange tie on from
now on.
Councilman Lundquist: I was going to ask him where he got that...
Councilman Ayotte: Oh good. But on a more serious note, I'd like to make a request of
fellow council and legal counsel to investigate the pros and cons of considering the
mayoral term after 2006 to be changed from 2 years to 4. And to research that as an
option. I personally believe, now that I'm ending my 4 year term, that the stability to this
council could be enhanced if the leadership role would be 4 rather than 2 because it
would (a), add stability in my view, and (b), be less disruptive to the operation of the
council so I just make that request to see if it could be researched and what timing wise
when it would make sense, if it does make sense.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: If that's the wishes of the entire council, staff can work with the city
attorney and draft up a report and bring it back to a work session.
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