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CC Minutes 1999 02 08CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Mancino, Councilman Labatt, Councilman Senn, and Councilwoman Jansen. Councilman Engel left the meeting during discussion of item 2.5. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Kate Aanenson, Charles Folch, Anita Benson, Bob Generous, Todd Hoffman, Harold Brose, Steve Kirchman, Richard Rice and Bob Zydowsky APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Engel seconded to approve the agenda as amended by Councilman Senn to add the following items which were accepted after the filing deadline: Public Announcements A. Proclamation Declaring Community Values Week February 14-20, 1999; Consent Agenda 1 (k)(1). Approval of Renaming Lake Lucy Estates Subdivision to Whitetail Cove; and l(k)(2). Amendment to Development Contract. Public Hearings: 2.5 Organizational Issues which will be moved to item 2. New Business: Appointment of Two City Council Members to Serve on the Southwest Transportation Coalition; and Administrative Presentations. 9(e). Request for Clarification of Resolution in Support of Eastern Carver County Collaborative Planning Project, Acting City Manager. And 9(d) is deleted from the agenda. All voted in favor of the agenda as amended and the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: PROCLAMATION DECLARING COMMUNITY VALUES WEEK, FEBRUARY 14-20, 1999. Mayor Mancino: I would like to read the proclamation declaring Community Values Week, February 14 to the 20th. Whereas, It takes a whole village to educate a child. The whole community has the responsibility to work in concert with the home to provide consistent messages about how we are to treat each other. Whereas, The entire community participated in a process to identify a common ground of basic goodness. The District 112 communities' process involved three community forums and a committee that reviewed and summarized the input from the community. The values were then adopted by the city councils, school board and county commissioners. Whereas, the entire community must be involved. This includes school, business, clergy, law enforcement, social services, city government, and service organizations. This involvement begins with identifying the values and continues by community members modeling and promoting the values. Whereas, the City of Chanhassen has adopted and promotes the eight community values of citizenship, environmentalism, generosity, human worth and dignity, integrity, learning, respect for other, and responsibility. Whereas, the Values Committee has organized the Tenth Annual Community Values Award Program for 1999. Now Therefore, the City of Chanhassen hereby proclaims the week of February 14th to the 20th, 1999 to be Community Values Week in the city of Chanhassen. As we continue to face the challenges and opportunities of our society, I call on all citizens of Chanhassen to promote and model these eight values. Chanhassen's commitment and dedication to building a bright future for all members, but especially the youth of this community remain top priorities. Thank you. Resolution #99-07: Mayor Mancino moved, Councilman Engel seconded to adopt a resolution proclaiming February 14-20, 1999 as Community Values Week in Chanhassen. All voted in favor and the motion carried. City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Engel moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: a. Resolution #99-08: Authorize Advertisement for Bids for 1999 Vehicle & Equipment Acquisition, File No. PW016GGG. c. Approve Contract with H.R. Green Company for Pavement Management Study, Project 99-4. d. Approval of Lake Ann Beach Lifeguard Contract, Minnetonka Community Services. e. Amendment to City Code Allowing the Installation of Upright Monuments in the Chanhassen Pioneer Cemetery, Final Reading. f. Approval of Bills. g. City Council Minutes dated December 28, 1998. City Council Minutes dated January 11, 1999. Planning Commission Minutes dated January 20, 1999. h. Approval of Special Recreation Services Contract, West Hennepin Community Services. j. Consider Amendment to the City Code, Section 20-913(c) Lighting, to Regulate Height, Spacing and Type of Light Fixtures, First Reading. k. 1) Approval of Renaming the Lake Lucy Estates Subdivision to Whitetail Cove. 2) Amendment to Development Contract. All voted in favor and the motion carried. I(B): ARBORETUM BUSINESS PARK PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS~ PHASE II. Councilman Labatt: I wanted to take further time to review this. It's in reference to Arboretum Business Park Public Improvements feasibility study that I guess was conducted a year, couple years ago. I'd like to have a chance to review that study. Also spending $50,000.00 for a temporary signal at TH 41 and 82nd Street so I'd just like to table this until the next meeting to have time to review that study. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Would you like to make a motion? Councilman Labatt: I make a motion that we table item l(b)(1) until the next council meeting. Mayor Mancino: And between that time you'll have time to review the report? Councilman Labatt: Yes. Mayor Mancino: Great. Second? Councilman Senn: Second. City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Labatt moved, Councilman Senn seconded to table the Cooperative Agreement with Chaska for Traffic Signal at TH 41 and 82nd Street for Arboretum Business Park Public Improvements, Phase II until the next City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: Robert Smithburg: Madam Mayor and council members. I am here to urge you to form a transportation task force. This task force made up of elected officials and members of the community would give us a much needed participatory role in the decisions affecting transportation in our area. Our city must work in cooperation with other regional transportation planning groups such as the 494 task force, and the Twin Cities Metropolitan Commuter Rail Feasibility Study. MnDOT has issued it's final summary report Phase II regarding commuter rail and this was reported to the legislature on February 1st. The Norwood-Young America line, known as Line H, includes Chanhassen and is a great opportunity to consider such alternatives. Chanhassen should not limit itself to tunnel 212 vision. Doing this does not serve our community well. This council drafted a memorandum of understanding regarding Highway 212's planning that stressed citizen participation. I am simply asking you that you take the first step to execute that commitment by establishing a task force. Citizen participation at this level would be beneficial because it would increase public knowledge and help promote viable solutions to our long term traffic problems. We are moving away from strictly an automobile driven society into a more enlightened interdependence. Our newly elected Governor Jesse Ventura stresses a need for transit alternatives. Our newly appointed Metropolitan Council Chair Ted Mondale also favors mass transit alternatives. And we also have a new Commissioner of Transportation who favors mass transit. Even our Minnesota State House Representative, the Chair of the Transportation Committee is in favor of employing our existing rails. Now is the time to explore these options as there is already momentum in this direction. And in fact a presentation on commuter rail feasibility will be held on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, February 9th at 8:00 a.m. at the State Office Building. And this is Room 5 and this is before Representative Workman's committee. And this is the study and there's a lot of really great information in there. In conclusion, we need to look at the totality of our transportation needs. Not just the one avenue that has been pursued for 50 years. We shouldn't close the door on other opportunities by settling for partial and short sighted solutions. We need to explore and actively pursue transportation alternatives for our community. Do we need to question this narrow focus that has been before this city for decades? I think we do. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Could you state your name and address please? Robert Smithburg: Oh, I'm sorry. Mayor Mancino: We waited until you got done. Robert Smithburg: Robert Smithburg, 8657 Chanhassen Hills Drive North, Chanhassen. Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much. Any questions that councilmembers have for Robert? Okay. Thank you. Mr. Smithburg's request was setting up a task force for transportation. I think all types of transportation so that is something we will get back to you and actually we'll be talking a little bit about commissions later, etc. so thank you for that input. Anyone else wishing to address the council? During visitor presentation. City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Frank Mendez: Good evening. My name is Frank Mendez. And I live at 7361 Kurvers Points Road here in Chanhassen. And I just want to bring up some concerns here to the council for your review and discussion. And they're really in reference to Y2K issues and I see that in our program that there is, that is a study here going on and it looks like we're moving forward at a nice pace. What I'd like to do is just add some, maybe just add some personal information to this and maybe some direction as well. What I'd like, I hope the City Council does is really advance personal preparedness in respect to our community. In other words there's a lot of communities out here that are doing a lot of things which are beneficial to the community that really don't help the individual as much. What I'm saying is that we really need to really present a personal preparedness issue to these people. And I'd like to just mention a few little subjects for your consideration. I'd like to see the city council sponsor a local community awareness event to inform area residents of the year 2000 issue. Offering practical ways to prepare and respond and launch community action. Second thing that I'd like the city council to take a look at is to establish ongoing task forces and meetings to address specific areas of vulnerability. And serve as a central Y2K resource for the community. And I emphasize resource because information is the key here. Tools are valuable too but information can really take us a long way. I'd also like to see the city council encourage people in the city to partner with local churches, businesses, charitable, civic and interested government organizations in Y2K preparedness and contingency plan. Emphasizing particularly the needs of vulnerable areas in the community. Areas maybe that may have a concern due to sewage, sewage back flow or water. Which is often over looked. Seeing that we don't stand alone in reference to sewage so if there's a problem in that area, some eof our residents could pay that price. So I'd just like that continued research to be done. And really what I'd like is to encourage individuals to prepare. Again going back to my opening statement. To prudently prepare, not panic. To look for the best and to prepare for the worst. And really that's all I really wanted to say and I just hope that you listened to these comments and continue to go forward on your Y2K preparedness. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much Frank. Both Frank and Bob Smithburg, if you'd like to please e- mail us what you've just read and I think that we'll have that and come back to it and look at it during our work session and start getting prepared and talking about these things. So if you have the time and don't mind e-mailing us, that'd be great. Councilman Engel: Do you have access to e-mail, both of you? Mayor Mancino: Or fax or, yeah. Appreciate it. Or put it in the mail. The old fashion way. Frank Mendez: Thank you very much. Mayor Mancino: Anyone else wishing to address the council during visitor presentation? Bob Ayotte: The name's Bob Ayotte. Mayor Mancino: Excuse me, wait til you get the podium please Bob. Bob Ayotte: Cascade Pass. Make a request for, the council made some initiatives which I think are good ones for budget and I don't know whether or not any efforts have been made to have a training program formalized for the type of budget methodologies that you want to employ in order to create some consistency from one activity to the next. The process has changed, which I think is a council decision to move forward. I'm requesting that there be a formalized, intense and quick mechanism introduced to the staff to afford the staff the opportunity of understanding the budget process that you're trying to City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 implement. I think that will facilitate things in a much more constructive fashion. I would also ask that you introduce in your budget review thresholds so that during the budget meetings issues associated with a $300.00 expenditure, a $500.00 expenditure may not take as much time as an expenditure of $1.5 million. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much. And again, Bob if you'd like to e-mail us that, that'd be great. Otherwise we do have it in our notes. ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS. Public Present: Name Address Janet Lash Fred Berg Dave Dummer Marcia & John Hull Jim Sloss Leah Hawke Patsy & Bill Bernhjelm Mona J. Kerber Pat & Lee Kerber Eldon B. Leslie Michel Wes & Carol Dunsmore Elizabeth Burgett Craig Peterson Michael O'Kelly Lydia E. Porter Doug Hale Barb Klick Jim Murphy502 Highland Drive Betty Hayes6881 Redwing Vernelle Clayton Dean Trippler Mike Kerber Ed Jannusch 7001 Tecumseh Lane 6910 Chaparral Lane 8523 Drake Court 1421 Lake Susan Hills Drive 9360 Kiowa Trail 7444 Moccasin Trail 9380 Kiowa Trail 500 Chanview 1620 Arboretum Blvd. 9581 Highland Drive, Eden Prairie (Moving to Chan) 2840 Washta Bay Road 730 West 96th Street 1193 Harrison Street, Shakopee 1340 Oakside Circle 685 Carver Beach Road 7217 Pontiac Circle 12715 Highway 7 7116 Utica Lane 422 Santa Fe Circle Chanhassen Villager 500 Chanview 6831 Utica Terrace Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. At our last work session this past Monday night, staff was asked to bring back the different alternatives that were presented to the City Council during that work session. Along with that, to establish a third alternative B proposal working with the Carver County Sheriff's Department. Staff was also asked to list out comments, pros and cons of each of the alternatives and then present those back to City Council at tonight's meeting. Included in your packet is each of the alternatives and at this time I'd like to present those to the City Council and to the public for their City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 comments. Once I complete my presentation Mayor, I would leave it up to the council if you want to ask questions of me or if you'd like the public to take comments at that time. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you very much. Todd, excuse me. This is what's in our packet? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Todd Gerhardt: Well it's not coming through as clearly as I'd like so what I will do is kind of read through it so everybody has an understanding... Option 1, under this option the public safety department section is, right now this is how Chanhassen City Hall is organized... Here you have the City Council working directly with the City Manager. From the City Manager... We have general administration in this area. Under general administration you've got the office manager, support staff, city recorder, MIS Coordinator and GIS Specialist. Then down below you have the six different departments other than administration. There's public safety, park and rec, public works, engineering, planning and finance. In our public safety department, there's a public safety director that oversees deputy public safety director, public safety officers, community service officers, fire marshal, fire inspector and support staff, building official, assistant building official.., and a volunteer fire department of approximately.., members. Park and rec, you have the Park and rec director, rec superintendent, recreation supervisor, recreation secretary, senior citizen coordinator, park and rec center staff and park.., park foreman and light and heavy equipment operators. Public works department. We have a director of public works in Charles Folch... streets and sewer and water lines. You have the public works staff, street superintendent, public works secretary, heavy equipment operator and light equipment operator.., support staff. Our engineering department consists of the city engineer, Anita Benson. Assistant city engineer, construction tech IV, mapping tech II, engineering secretaries and an engineering intern. Our Planning department consists of a planning director, Kate Aanenson who oversees two senior planners, one Planner I, water resource coordinator and environmental resource specialist. Our finance department, Pam Snell is our Finance Director. She oversees.., utility and billing clerk and half time intern. We also have the economic development authority which is a separate commission...You have the entire city council and two members at large. And you have the economic development director overseeing that authority. With Option 1, it is my recommendation that.., organization and that you look at hiring a new public safety director or similar position.., and oversee the administration of the police contract. It gives the city one comprehensive professional managed safety department, both in inspections, police protection, animal control, and in public safety education .... working very well with Carver County and their department. I think that under this.., both a police contract and community policing. It allows for patrolling of bike trails. Water patrol. The flexibility in call up situations where your Carver County deputies need to leave a scene and we have our own staff to back it up. And it also gives us coordination with our volunteer fire department. That Public Safety Director would also be responsible for insuring that the administration.., of that organization are being met. Both from a training and administrative side. With that I have a second option that I call Option 2A. In Option 2A you have the City Manager that would oversee the Economic Development Authority, the economic development director. He then would be responsible to oversee both the building official, support staff, fire marshal and their support staff. Also the Economic Development... I would also establish a Board of Appeals to hear questions and concerns regarding building code issues and that that board would also be responsible... Comments regarding this option is that the economic development director currently has extensive knowledge in computers and maximizing the use of our new permitting process. He's proven himself as a capable of maximizing use of all software programs and to the extent that they can be used for. The economic development director understands the building and fire code City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 issues. He has managed this department in the past as he served as the city manager for the City of Chanhassen. He is creative in coming up with ideas. One of them that he shared here the other day was establishing an escrow account for some building permits.., set aside for a person to get a building permit right away. Economic development director takes on the inspections. There would be the question if he would have enough time to do the duties as the economic development director. That would be one of the cons to this scenario. Separation of inspections from the public safety.., what would be say the first alternative would, could be another potential con to this scenario and it does continue to lump inspections... It makes the department smaller than the original Option 1 which in some cases can make it more manageable and given the smaller numbers. That's Option 2A. Mayor Mancino: Todd, do you mind if we ask questions as you go? Just two questions I have. Number one. Would you suggest doing the Board of Appeals, you had that in 2A. Would you suggest creating that in 1 if we chose 1 too? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. I would include that in Option 1. Mayor Mancino: So you would include it in Option 1. Tell, can you speak to the fiscal impacts of this. Being that we have an EDA Director already and don't need a public safety director. Is there a fiscal impact? Todd Gerhardt: Well yes. Without the public safety director you would save money in his salary. However, there would have to be some offsetting costs associated with the hours that Scott was credited for under the police contract. At our work session we talked about the difference of 51 hours... The reason we have a difference is... got credit for both Scott, Bob and Kerri's time in patrolling Chanhassen. So somehow we would have to make up some of those hours by either adding... I would see that probably, and the thing I don't have a handle on yet is how many hours were associated.., so if they gave Scott 4 hours of credit or was it 6 hours credit, I'm not sure. Mayor Mancino: But the main duty was supervising, advisory. Todd Gerhardt: Right. But he did get.., some patrolling. He would assist in funerals, traffic control situations, large events. But based on this scenario, the only option, the only economic impact would be that difference between the public safety director salary and what we give back to... Mayor Mancino: So nothing else in this option changes as far as people? You don't increase or eliminate or anything? Todd Gerhardt: No. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Same staff. Same number of staff. Okay. And I'm assuming that's in Option 1 too? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. No additional staff... Mayor Mancino: Any other questions? Okay. Todd Gerhardt: Under Option 2B. What I've done here. You have Option 2A and B. Option 2A was to break up the public safety department into two sections with 2A being the inspections portion of it and 2B City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 being more of the law enforcement, community education and animal control section. So in this scenario you had the city manager would oversee the chief law enforcement officer and I am proposing Bob Zydowsky to do that chief law enforcement officer and Bob has proven himself here the last few months that he is capable of continuing to oversee the police contract... Questions and concerns that Scott would answer at times. From that Bob will oversee the Public Safety Educator Coordinator, Beth Hoiseth. Would also oversee community service officer Henry Price and also our other sworn officer, public safety officer Kerri Nolden. Under this scenario the comments that I would provide is that it keeps local policing identity. You would still have the officers of Bob and Kerri and Henry walking or driving throughout the community in our blue automobiles and in a blue uniform. That allows us flexibility for doing special... We'd also be able to provide bike patrol, water patrol... Kerri has proven herself to do that last year. She took it upon herself to contact local businesses and get them to grant or give or allow us to use, the water patrol.., and also Kerri will dress up and get on a bicycle and patrol our trails and parks in the summertime. Continue to complete the background investigations and criminal history reports.., under Chanhassen administration... It also allows us to retain our Operation Identification and I think continue our successful relationship with the county and city policing function. The benefit of not having that of course would be the police liability... Under this scenario I still would recommend keeping the public safety commission. Basically to oversee, to do an overview of the police contracts and that the City Council would have direct responsibility over... Any questions regarding Option 2B? Mayor Mancino: I just have one. The... Todd Gerhardt: Yes. It takes it out of City Hall but we would have to wait for them to get... Mayor Mancino: So you're saying the difference is probably timing. Todd Gerhardt: Timing. It's kind of nice when you're doing employee checks or for new hires and things like that, to have... Mayor Mancino: And what about hardware? Does that mean that the city, that we bought hardware to be able to do this to? I mean are we duplicating what the county has is what I'm asking. Todd Gerhardt: I'm sure the county has their own set of hardware. Mayor Mancino: So we have another set of hardware that basically does the same thing. Can we rent it? Todd Gerhardt: Do we rent that or? Leslie Michel: No... The initial hardware would have as a separate... Mayor Mancino: That they would be doing. Okay, thank you. Councilman Labatt: What about liquor licenses?... Todd Gerhardt: Yep. We'll coordinate with some of the county on any... Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Todd Gerhardt: I'm not short on options tonight. Here's Option 3A. Similar to Option 2. We have broken out the safety or the policing function versus the inspection function under Option 3A. We have the City Manager again overseeing the Community Development Director. And then the Community Development Director would oversee planning.., staff right now, Planner I. Would have to oversee Environmental and Forestry and Fire Marshal and.., support staff. And the inspections support staff, building official and the 6 ½ building inspectors and mechanical inspections. The Economic, I did include the Economic Development Director under this option and... Again under this option I have included the Board of Appeals and you also have the Planning Commission, which again will be overseen by the City Council. The additional staff under this option may, there's no additional staff...the size of this department, you would have to look at maybe doing some upgrades in positions just because of the size of it. The Community Development Director... different elements is added responsibility to that individual. The planner under the old scenario.., environmental and forestry and then.., would have a lead person to go to get an answer... Mayor Mancino: So you're saying you may consolidate that and make one of the senior planners oversee, excuse me. Okay. Todd Gerhardt: ... not knowing exactly what direction you're going to go tonight. I did make it as a comment... I think there's some pluses in this. There definitely would probably be more interaction.., planning department and inspections... It does put most of the development issues under one department. Planning is reviewing the subdivisions and code enforcement of the zoning ordinance. That brings in the building department occasionally and so there is a positive in having it all under one umbrella. It's a better understanding of how each of the departments operate. It makes the.., development department much bigger. The planning department. Building department would no longer be under the department of safety per se. More in development and there may need to be an educational curve for all employees on how things function. You know establishing a commission and coordination of goals and administrative responsibilities. Any questions regarding 3A? Mayor Mancino: Any questions? Todd Gerhardt: The last option is 3B. I have all kinds of disclaimers on this. The concept idea essentially a couple of weeks ago. Don Ashworth and myself were going to go down and meet with the Sheriff Bud Olson to discuss this option with him and unfortunately my son was ill so I couldn't make it. I felt it was important for Don to continue to go down and meet with the Sheriff as a fact finding trip. I know that Bud has had discussions with the Carver County Board but feels there needs to be more discussions.., presented under preliminary discussions... Under concept idea, Option 3B proposes Chanhassen Public Safety Department. What you would have is... what is called a contract officer/supervisor. The contract officer/supervisor is a position, an employee... Sheriff's department. However, the Carver County Sheriff's Department would allow.., our contract supervisor. And that is... Bob Zydowsky and Kerri who would become Carver County employees under this idea. They would continue to work out of Chanhassen and assist with code enforcement, water patrol, and on bike trails like they have... However they would be Carver County employees. They would be insured under the Carver County insurance policy.., compensated by the County Sheriff's office. Plus we would then up the contract of, with the sheriff's office to reflect both Bob and Kerri's salary. The contract officer/supervisor would also oversee the deputies that serve Chanhassen and would also, I want everybody to know that the deputies currently are not in need of supervision.., and crime prevention officers so... So I just want to make it clear that it's not... The community service officer and crime prevention specialist would continue to be Chanhassen employees. There's a reason you cannot include CSO's and crime prevention specialists.., right now the City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Carver County Sheriff's Department does not provide animal control and crime prevention education. It's something that.., look into because there are other needs throughout the county for animal control or police education. And crime prevention. So based on that scenario we came up with some... That would be a plus. There would be one comprehensive police contract which would... Chanhassen would lose it's local community oriented policing... I've never seen that.., but there's always the possibility of occurring but we thought we should... Bob and Kerri would become county employees and lose their seniority as Chanhassen employees. Clinton Cop grant funds could be transferred down to the county is my understanding. And it costs less to have Bob and Kerri here. You're looking at 30... And again, we talked about the BCA computer for running criminal.., background checks for handguns, solicitor's licensing, liquor licensing would have to be done... One of the other concerns we had was kind of separating crime prevention from the local police. And if she's supervised over by the Carver County's Sheriff's Department, that there would need to be... I think Beth could still call upon Bob or Kerri to volunteer time... With that, that's all the comments I have for Option 3B. Does Council have any questions of Option 3B? Mayor Mancino: On the contract officer/supervisor in that box in the middle. Could that be Bob? If we get to choose or does it have to, I mean that's always a possibility I'm assuming. Todd Gerhardt: Bud did not think that that could work... I don't want to call it union issues or seniority issues but that point he did not think that that could work. Mayor Mancino: But he wasn't sure? Todd Gerhardt: Well one of the other wrinkles is that we'd have to work on. Councilman Engel: But because they would require seniority within their county sheriff organization to move up and take that type of a position as opposed to 10 years of Chanhassen? Todd Gerhardt: ... Bob might be overseeing some deputies that have.., and so it gets a little controversial... Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Councilwoman Jansen: Madam Mayor, I don't know if now would be a good time for me to maybe introduce some information. I had gone from Mr. Gerhardt's Option 3B and run some numbers realizing that we had Mr. Gerhardt under a rather constraining time situation as far as the information that we were given. And procedurally I don't know how we do this. I know of course you're going to be wanting to take public comment but I wouldn't want to pop these numbers on everyone after they've given comments if they would like to be able to speak to them if they in fact apply to this option. (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Councilwoman Jansen continued: ... director of public safety. The public safety officer. Community services officer. And then the two support services positions in there to come to that $305. I left out of the number for comparison sake since it's not provided in the county and we're saying that it is essential, the crime prevention officer number isn't in there. Since we had been talking about that remaining with the city last Monday in the work session. And then within the departmental figures, so I felt I needed to pull those out were the two support services positions for the building inspectors. So those numbers aren't a part of the calculation on what our total policing is costing us. Then I went to our budget. 10 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Our 19997 Councilwoman Jansen: Our 1999 budget. The January 27th version of our budget and pulled out all of the costs that were associated with police administration. The public safety commission had a small amount in there and then the animal control was also noted. So all of those numbers are included under the materials and supplies. I pulled the Sheriffs contract out and as we went through the budget process we were all aware that there was this additional $64,000.00 that was above and beyond even the Sheriffs contract. And I had in my notes that that seemed to be a roll-up of just additional hours that tend to contribute over to the sheriffs contract. So I did include that as a part of our total policing number and correct me if I've made any wrong assumptions Gerhardt, if you would. And then I pulled the capital outlay. So the total other was the $114,641.00. Then to try to figure out the vehicle cost in order to have a like number to the sheriffs number, I took what their formula was that they used within the contract which was of course the hourly 8 hour days and how many days in a year times our 4 vehicles. So the 4 vehicles being public safety director, the deputy director, public safety officer and community service officer. All four vehicles are then factored into that number for the 16880. Just again trying to come up with comparable expenses that would be shifting over to the total sheriff if we went that direction. That came to a total within our own budget for personnel, other and vehicles $437,244.00. Added to the sheriffs contract of the $487,000.00 comes to a total budget of $924,750.00. So are those numbers clear? Mayor Mancino: So we're understanding the total amount that... Councilwoman Jansen: Yeah. And that was. Mayor Mancino: And you said that includes the public safety director's salary? Councilwoman Jansen: Yes. I left that in there. So then using our current population estimate that we had just received. That as of April 1, 1999 we're going to be at 19,500. I used the hourly patrol formula from the sheriff's department, which is calculated for a population of 7,000 you need 18 hours daily and then for every additional 1,000 in population beyond that you need 3 hours additionally. So it totals up to 54 hours total if we were to shift everything just over to the Sheriff's department and cover the exact number of hours from their formula. So by their hourly amount that then brings that total to $822,498.00. So right now our current services are costing us $102,000.00 approximately more than if it were all under the sheriff's department. That was just running raw numbers and there's probably room for gravitation and Todd, I know you've had a lot of your plate and I started running these and trying to figure out, just based on the hourlys and it is confusing to try to do, to compare some of the hourlys just because there's so many additional things that are in it. Mayor Mancino: So this is $924,750.00. Plus another, but you don't include crime prevention officer. So that would not be... support services for building. Councilwoman Jansen: Correct. Assuming that everything that was within this departmental budget that was building oriented or yeah. All the building inspectors would shift from this so it didn't apply that at all. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor. Just a couple of comments. Carol Dunsmore and Leslie have just, they probably spend anywhere from 10% to 20% of their time doing police function work. The remaining amount of their time is they're doing building inspections. The majority of their time you know with the occasional 11 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 background check and memos that they would write for Scott Harr. But so I don't know if you can allocate their entire salary over to there. And then under the community service officer position. Mayor Mancino: That's what we do right now in our budget. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, they may all be included in administration but what we're doing right now is doing our activity budgeting which will really show you where their time is being spent. Councilwoman Jansen: I actually thought that that's what I had used to pull the two of them and put them here versus leaving Elizabeth and Betty under building inspections, realizing that of course Betty does some of the fire back up support but I think within the budget maybe it was creative accounting but it was logged under police administration. Todd Gerhardt: Well 90% of their time is spent doing building inspections. But I'll get a clarification on that for you and.., under this scenario also, the county is not geared up yet to take on animal control and are not geared up to take on crime prevention. So you know those things are still going to have to fall underneath our umbrella. Mayor Mancino: And I think that's what's shown here. The crime prevention officer is not included. Todd Gerhardt: She has the community service officer up above. Mayor Mancino: Yeah, she does have that but she doesn't have the crime prevention officer. Todd Gerhardt: Right. Right. Mayor Mancino: That's pulled out. Councilwoman Jansen: And actually, in a follow-up conversation with your presentation to this scenario, we have had just a brief conversation again with the sheriff as to what the commitment could actually be. And in his mind he's very, again having to look at it transitionally, he gets very enthusiastic about the idea of being able to put the CSO function and the crime prevention also into a full service county sheriff department. And I gather that he's very focused himself, as you noted in I believe it was Ashworth's letter, that he's very community policing oriented as far as wanting people on our trails and on the lakes. So he did realize the significance of that role to this community and spoke to you know definitely needing to make sure that that was covered and that maybe in a more of a transitional type of a scenario being able to speak to that. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, he said that to me too and his only other concern in that is that they represent the entire county and that his phone will ring off the hook as soon as he starts providing that service to one community. That the other communities would want it. Especially in the animal control section so. Councilwoman Jansen: Exactly. Todd Gerhardt: But no question, if he had a comprehensive system down there, as I said in my presentation, that having just the one contract would be the best of all worlds. You know it is clunky having the system. However they have made it work over the years. 12 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Jansen: You're welcome. I just thought it'd be best to have the numbers at least to speak to. Mayor Mancino: I'll open this for a public hearing. Those wishing to address the city council, please come up. State your name and address. Councilman Engel: Mayor Mancino, I'd like to just state for the record before we get started. There's a lot of information out here. Todd's. Linda's. Stuff that I've been getting from the community. What we're going to hear now and I would be in no position whether I was here until midnight to make a decision on this one way or the other tonight. I just want to preface this. I would move to table after we're done and keep continuing this discussion. I do not feel ready to make a decision regardless, one way or the other so before it gets to 8:30 and I've got to go, I just want everyone to know that's how I feel. I would not be ready to vote on this tonight. I want to keep getting input on it. Mayor Mancino: Okay, comments. Bob Ayotte: My name is still Bob Ayotte. Still... Cascade Pass. Number one, I'm 37 years old but my father, does anybody know who Mickey Rooney was? But you know who.., yeah. The movies that occurred in the late 40's, bear with me Mayor. Mayor Mancino: You're sticking with the subject that we're on, right? Bob Ayotte: It's important. The movies in the late 40's, every movie that Mickey Rooney was in he would say, let's go in the back yard, build the stage and have a show. That's what's happening tonight. I have a few questions. I really appreciate your comments. I saw an organizational chart that went from where a council was doing the castration to a council that was being castrated. Okay? I saw this councilwoman working towards development of a position with imperial data. I have talked to you on that point. But I saw absolutely no mention, it may have been, but I heard no mention of city staff input on what the requirements are for organization to protect my daughter. Now I'm not asking you, I'm warning you. Any organizational structure that's intended to protect and service this community better have the input of that staff and better have the input of community. What are the requirements? I've disagreed with this guy. Anita and I have had two or three disagreements. His police force has given me a police ticket to go through a stop sign in my neighborhood, which I'll never forgive you for. But the thing that they do is they define requirements and build specifications. You'd better have the specs for every department. Every department. The number of calls that have to be responded to. The issue with the dogs. Putting the dog in a car and so on. Now I know when I ask this guy how many linear feet he has of sewage lines, he knows. He knows the number of his lift stations. He knows the gallons of water that are pumped. So don't play this game in showing me charts. You'd better have requirements defined before anybody goes. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Anyone else wishing to address the council and give comments. Bill Bernhjelm: Bill Bernhjelm, 9380 Kiowa Trail. I'm a member of I think still the public safety commission. I still haven't heard if we're having a meeting on Thursday night. It's in my calendar but I haven't heard one way or the other and I think one of the most important comments that I can make is this discussion doesn't belong here. It belongs there. I agree with Mr. Ayotte. Too little information. Too fast. You're talking about making a major change in the leadership of this community in terms of hiring a 13 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 city manager. You're talking about a major change in the way the most important public service that you provide is delivered to the people of this community and you want to do it in a big hurry. You had to do the other thing you did, or at least three of you did, in a big hurry because you were running out of time. Because at the end of the year there was a new council. But to start down the wrong road at this point without having the input of your new city manager, without having the input of your staff and without having the input of the public safety commission that's been in place for many years here and knows, at least some of us know the history of why we have a contract. Why the contract says what it says and why you know there are minimums put on it and the fact that you raised the question obviously causes the sheriff to raise the price. The sheriff would be a fool not to say sure, I'll be happy to provide that. But don't forget, the sheriff gets his budget from the farmers in the west end of the county. Not from you all. And you'd better be prepared to pay the piper if you want all this extra service because you know they're not going to provide it. And to put a sheriff's employee, a contractor of yours, in charge of supervising the contract makes absolutely no sense at all. And to say you're going to pick his employee, the sheriff's employee that's going to represent you. Well which master does he serve which day? And then you throw in the part about, and we can get rid of him a lot easier than we had to get rid of, then the way it went the last time we got rid of somebody. You're moving way too fast and this is not going very well. Mayor Mancino: Please, no clapping. Thank you. Barb Klick: Barb Klick, 7116 Utica Lane. I have some concerns also about the direction that we're taking and I think I'll speak from the angle of a parent. I have two small children and I reside in this town because I like the amenities and I like the safety issues that are covered for us. Right now under the contract we have excellent response time from our sheriffs and they do a good job of responding to injuries and burglaries in process and crime scenes and PI's and things like that. The system or the model that we have in place now also offers us a community service in terms of not only prevention but identification of some of our juvenile delinquents, our truants, and policing has really changed. It's not just response now. It's really.., in trying to prevent some of the issues and some of the damage. And a few weeks ago when my two young children were playing in the front yard and a young gentleman about the age of 13 or 14 sped through on a snowmobile about 30 mph. If I would have called the sheriff, sure. They would have come out if they were hit and helped with the crime scene and rendered emergency services. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for people who already know those juvenile delinquents. Who know that those are some repetitive problems in our neighborhood and who are already dealing with those people. And I urge you with whatever model you look at, that we can continue some community policing in Chanhassen. This is not a regulatory number but this is a spec or a benchmark you might want to make yourself aware of. In the Midwest area right now they're looking for about 1 police officer for 1,000 residents. And if we're going to 20,000 residents, that would be a police force of about 20 FTE's. Right now with the contract we have 32 hours a day which is about 5.6 FTE's. In addition to our local policing we've got maybe 10 people at the most. So it's not just about price. It's about public safety and it depends on what we all want to spend and how safe we want to be. I'm not suggesting we need a police force at this time. I don't think we could afford it. We're looking at around a million price tag now. We'd be up around two. I am advocating for a model at least that gives us some control over the people who are watching out for our children for the safety of our families. Thank you. Patsy Bernhjelm: Patsy Bernhjelm, 9380 Kiowa Trail. As I'm sure you're all aware by now, I'm a very concerned citizen also about the public safety department issues that are in front of our city. I guess I would go along with some of the issues that have been raised already tonight. Why you would make these changes with the new city manager apparently coming on board soon. It appears that if the purpose was to get rid of Scott Harr, that's been accomplished. Then why are we further disrupting city hall by changing 14 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 this department. It's functioned very well with the alignment that is currently in place and it is I think a tremendous tribute to Scott himself that the dynamics that were put in place when he was the public safety director have been what has carried through this department. Carried this department through what must seem to many employees like an impossible situation. I can only imagine what's going on in the minds of these people, these employees as they watch their department being bandied about up at city hall. In the newspaper. In the streets of our city. In the grocery stores. Questions that are being asked. I had asked you, the council, at your December 14th meeting, why this would happen. Why any of this had begun? What was the purpose for this? And those questions have never been answered. Yet you told Mr. Smithburg and Mr. Mendez that you would get back to him on the issues that they raised tonight. Well I'm not the only one that has raised these issues. Many people have and I don't know if they just aren't going to be answered. If there's reasons but what is it that's being hidden from the public here. Why aren't these questions being answered? Is there something that needs to remain hidden from the public? I don't know. It's certainly the impression that's being given to people. I guess at this point I would like to say please, please do the right thing at this point in time and leave the public safety department in tact. I feel it would be foolish and very feudal on my part to ask that Scott Harr be reinstated, but what a great way to begin the healing process. To leave the department the way it is because it has functioned so well. It kind of goes along with the statement, if it isn't broken, don't fix it. But if you do decide to take a look at some other issues, please do take the time necessary. That's a great job on getting the information together Councilwoman Jansen, but there's other costs involved there. There's other functions that our public safety department performs. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Elizabeth Burgett: My name is Elizabeth Burgett. I live at 1193 Harrison Street in Shakopee, Minnesota. I've been on support staff at the public safety department for 5 years. I almost decided not to speak tonight because I was so afraid and I laid awake last night wondering why am I so afraid. I thought well if I'm going to speak the truth, then why should I be afraid? This you know is the United State of America and I should be able to speak freely to people that have been elected to serve me and the other people in Chanhassen. So I know I'm facing the people that have the most power in Chanhassen government at this time, but I choose to believe that you do want to hear the truth and so I'm going to just say a little what's in my heart. I think those who are elected to positions of power in government, as you have been, have the responsibility to put aside personal feelings about persons or issues and consider the welfare of the people they're elected to serve as most important. Councilman Engel asked at last week's work session what has changed since Scott left. I'll give you my answer. I used to work in a department that was remarkable for it's camaraderie, it's sense of purpose, it's dedication to the welfare of the citizens of Chanhassen. This came in great deal from Scott Harr and his sense of what was important. When Scott was our public safety director, state troopers, deputies, the fire chief and other safety and rescue personnel used to stop by his office to discuss and coordinate safety programs, emergency responses and emergency management procedures. Since his departure, the department has had no director. The professional camaraderie between the safety agencies that Scott encouraged is no longer in evidence. We rarely see any of these people any more. If you imagine a public safety department as a great ship having many decks, each representing a different agency. Carver County Sheriff's Department, the fire department, Department of Natural Resources, State Highway Patrol, building inspections, crime prevention education, community oriented police department, then Scott was our captain and our navigator. A ship without a captain to coordinate efforts made by the many departments that keep the ship running is in a dangerous position should a storm threaten. I believe this is what has changed since Scott left. We work in an atmosphere of insecurity. Waiting for the inevitable storm that we all know is coming. A couple of years ago we had a robbery at the Chanhassen Bank and Scott stood shotgun out there and helped coordinate with the Eden 15 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Prairie police department on the apprehension of the suspect. It was just things like this. He would, whenever there was a call he wanted to be right there. So I say that we're waiting for the inevitable storm and we're wondering who will give us direction when it does hit. As for the public safety commission, I ask you to consider allowing it to remain a separate entity. It has proven a valuable resource for past city councils and a place where citizens could go with safety questions and concerns. Many safety programs that are now in existence can trace their beginnings to recommendations that were made by the public safety commission. Finally, everyone in this room is aware that you hold the power here. You can choose to reject everything you've heard and will hear tonight. But I ask you to consider that the changes that you've already made at city hall and which are not irrevocable, are enough for now. I think if healing is to begin in our city, it has to begin here and it has to begin with you. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Carol Dunsmore: Carol Dunsmore, 730 West 96th Street, Chanhassen. I've been a public safety employee for 11 years January, since January 2nd. I feel like I'm here at my execution. I feel like I'm here at my sentencing. Ever since you forced Scott Harr to resign I have hated to come to work. Absolutely hated it, and I feel I've been a very loyal employee. I loved my job. I just enjoyed coming to work. And I hardly ever called in sick. I've got almost 700 hours of sick time built up. I mean I loved coming here. I loved getting up in the morning and coming here. But since December 9th, I hate to even think about coming here. It's very upsetting. There's no, the morale is so bad in the public safety department and we're losing some dynamite employees because of this, what is going on and it's horrible and we're all looking for work elsewhere. Leah Hawke: Leah Hawke, 7444 Moccasin Trail. You're going to have to forgive me. I'm not very well prepared. I'm actually quite sick, as is my child but I feel strong enough about this issue to be here tonight. I'm a resident that wants a fiscally sound council. I think we pay already too much in taxes, but you know what? I want to be able to walk the streets of Chanhassen and feel safe. I want to go to the library at night with my kids. I want them to be able to be outside without me having to be there to watch them every minute. I moved from Brooklyn Park to Chanhassen for that specific purpose. The crime rate in Brooklyn Park was outrageous. People are moving here for the services they are getting. They are looking at the statistics. This is a good place to live. We had a good program in Chanhassen and as a resident, not as a Scott Harr groupie that I'm being referred to, although I will tell you I'm proud to be in what I think is a very elite group, my question for this council remains. Why are we going this? What wasn t working. No one's answered that question. I've sat through what I believe to be the only council session on this issue looking at reorganization. That question never came up. There are four important components to strategic planning. I've been through them many times. I'm sure Mr. Engel, working in a corporation has been there too. The first is you identify your objective. Maybe that's in the strategic plan that you sent to my family. I'm not quite sure. That's coming back to you because I don't believe in it. Number two. You identify the strengths of the programs that you currently have. I haven't seen that done. I think residents have done more homework to look at the accolades Chanhassen has received for the programs put in place than I've seen this council do in their work session. Does anybody know? Has anybody looked at it? Has anybody said, what's working in Chanhassen? Am I going to get an answer to my question? Mayor Mancino: We're just taking your comment. Thank you Leah. Leah Hawke: When do I get answers to my questions? Are you telling me that as a resident I'm not entitled to them? I just want to be clear on the record because I'm going to stop wasting my time with this council if that's the case. Are you going to answer questions or not? 16 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Leah, you go ahead and make your comments and when we have time to give back, we will. Leah Hawke: Okay, so I continue to wait. This will go into month three of waiting for a response to the question of what is not working in Chanhassen. I just want to go on the record with that Mayor. You're refusing again to, okay perfect. So we haven't identified what our strengths are. Okay. That's my observation as a resident. We haven't gone out there and solicited input from the people that have used our services. We haven't looked at what, Linda you're looking at me with that smile. I don't know. Tell me. I haven't seen it in any meeting. Councilwoman Jansen: My jaw just dropped was all. Leah Hawke: Okay. And then what you do after you've identified the strengths is you identify the opportunities for improvement and you do that very carefully so that you don't have employees telling you that they're looking for work. You don't have employees leaving. You look at the way in which you want to go and you do it through attrition or any other means. I've sat here and watched these people essentially told your job might go if we decide to go this route. Your job may go. My question again to this council is Option 3B. Okay, you've got all the costs for that. What about the other options? And if money is so important, why have we spent about $320,000.00 in settlement costs for employees? When we didn't even know the direction we were going to take. So I look at this process and it's horribly broken. We've not followed a normal strategic planning process so I'm left here standing asking, why are we doing this? There's got to be something else that's driving this. And again, you're not listening to the people that have the expertise. With all due respect, you're not law enforcement officials. Residents are going to look to the people that know and in my opinion, that's the members that you put on your public safety commission. You put them there for a reason. To advise you. And my question again to this council is, why aren't you listening? And this is a significant change for Chanhassen. Perhaps this warrants the task force that you believe needs to be established here. Put some residents on a task force. Put them there with law enforcement officials and put them there with council members. This is a huge change for Chanhassen. Some of these options I didn't even know were under consideration. And I really think that similar to the siren issue when people become aware of something, they will react to it. Right now the public's not quite sure what's going on here. They just know that there are changes, potential changes down the street. They aren't thinking how that could impact them and I think we need to give them the facts and we need to give them the opportunity to give input when they know exactly what you're doing, because they're not educated enough right now about this particular issue to know what's going on. And finally I will say too. I have two small children. And similar to Mr. Ayotte, you'd better be sure that my tax dollars are protecting my children. Because I will look to this council if something happens to them. And if the police don't respond when I have people poking around my house, I will look to this council for an answer why. I'll just check my notes here. Finally, the big question for me as I look at all the numbers and again, I'm not an expert. But I want to know what we're paying and what we're getting and I want to know it for each option and I want to know what will be lost before I can appropriately comment on which direction we should go here. And finally, I want to know how much we are spending per person in the city of Chanhassen and I want to know comparable cities, how much are they spending. So we're not looking at, we're looking at it apples to apples. And with that I'll sit down. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Elizabeth. 17 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Elizabeth Burgett: I'm very sorry. I forgot to say something I think is important. There were two letters to the editor last week and the week before then. An article about the $566.00 cell phone bill that was attributed to Scott. I was the staff member that was involved with getting in touch with Air Touch Cellular about this. It was totally their mistake. His use that month actually would have been $61.10. They had sent him the wrong phone. They had put him on the wrong program, which was $249.00 a month for 1,000 minutes. They had charged him for two months and I do have all this that I could show you so it really was just a big mistake. They should have sent Scott a digital phone to replace his broken one which when I did speak to Katherine at customer service she said how sorry she was to me and she agreed that she would send us, at no charge to us, a brand new digital phone which she has done. I do have that. She's crediting the account with $249.50. She's giving us 200 free minutes of cell phone time and she's allowing us to keep the other phone so they are trying to make it up to us. But it's just, to me it was just another example of how people are looking for things to pull Scott down. I know he's gone and I accept that now. We don't know why but you had your reasons but I just wanted you to know that I think this one's unfair to charge him with this when no research was done. No one came and asked anyone in the department the reason for this high bill and I easily could have explained it and then he wouldn't have been slighted in the newspaper. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Dave Dummer: Good evening. I'm Dave Dummer from 8523 Drake Court. I've been in the city for about 24 years now. Over the last 15 years I've got a real intimate knowledge of city hall through some pretty close references. I'm also knowledgeable of public safety having served on it for six years and been it's chair for one year. I'm knowledgeable of the sheriff's department having spent a couple years in a study that we did and brought it to the people at the county of what's happening over there. I'm also quite knowledgeable in the way of finances. I am an MBA. I'm a CMA, etc, etc. I'm a military person for 25 years and I have to call to your attention that your knowledge of what you're discussing is a vacuum. It is terrible that I could sit here, when one person speaks and I could challenge every bit of data you have as being at best incomplete. Please go back and get the data. One place you can get it is the public safety commission. They will help you. They will probably give you 60% to 80% of it, but looking at costs. Trying to say I'm going to replace a public safety director with a patrol officer. That's not apples and apples. That's apples and oranges. So get your information straight. Bill Bernhjelm has said it. Bob has said it. You are operating in a vacuum. Get your data down before you decide anything. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Leslie Michel: Leslie Michel, 2840 Washta Bay Road. I waited for a while to speak up here and I'm a little nervous but I've also been on the public safety staff for 4 years. I have to correct you Todd. My percentage with law enforcement is a little higher than 5 or 10. I probably spend about 40 to 50% of my time doing law enforcement work with the deputies and everything else that goes on. More than half my day is spent doing law enforcement work. The only thing I'd like to say is that I've lived in Chanhassen for 9 years also and worked in law enforcement for 20 years at different agencies. Having somebody right in Chanhassen and having a city entity is so very important to a community. To focus on individual things such as your crime prevention issues. Your community policing. It's essential. I have also you know pros and cons with going with the county. Sure, you know Bud would snatch up a contract in a heartbeat but we do have the issues also of a full county. Is Chanhassen going to get lost in all that if Bud has to provide services to the whole county? Where does Chanhassen stand in that as to the size of our city? And my children, my animals running at large. We have to realize the focus of the city versus the county and I don't want to see us getting swallowed up in the county. Because you know it's a large county. We set precedence and go with the county on this, you're going to see all the smaller cities out and about that are 18 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 going to do the same thing and want the same assistance from the deputies and from animal control and all that and then where does that leave Chan? You know we may not be priority number one anymore where we are within our own city and to me that's very important. As a resident and also as an employee here. And to speak for Elizabeth and Carol, it's been very tough on us. And I am one of those employees that you probably will be losing shortly and it's been very tough and that's all I want to say. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Jim Sloss: Jim Sloss, 9360 Kiowa Trail. I am the present Public Safety Commission Chairman. And I will certainly work with the council and staff to come up with the proper recommendation that all of our people here wish to see. It's been a trying time and if the commission is still in, we will certainly try and provide the assistance and make the recommendations that the council will need. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Patsy Bernhjelm: Patsy Bernhjelm, 9380 Kiowa Trail. I just have a question based on what Councilmember Engel had to say about the hearing getting over because you're leaving at 8:30 and not voting on anything. Does that mean that, and you talked about tabling it. Does that mean that tonight is going to be the only public hearing or it will be tabled for further discussion by public or not? Mayor Mancino: We'll talk about that. Patsy Bernhjelm: Okay. Mayor Mancino: Okay. And make a decision. Barb Klick: Barb Klick. Looks like I may be the last speaker. I'd just like to step back and to all this reorganization and it started way before I became aware of it. I don't know what's going on. I'm trying to find out as a good citizen. I'm trying to find out information. I'm trying to give feedback. I'm trying to hold elected officials accountable. We all stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us and that includes our prior elected officials as well as other citizens who have lived here. We had systems that were working. We had a city manager that was here for 22 years. Apparently that wasn't working. Reorg, demoted. We had a public safety director that was here for 12 ½ years. I've seen his HR files. I've heard of you know people hiding behind data privacy. I'd like to know what the issues were. Still no idea what was wrong with that. Reorg. Termination under duress. We had a public safety commission and we have had different conversations. They're in. They're out. They're in. They're out. This is in your strategic plan. Connecting with the community. Getting more voice piece. Apparently now that's not working. I've read recently of a newspaper, who is the official newspaper and they've been reporting the stories that are going on. Apparently they aren't working and we're looking for other vendors. I mean is this common practice? Do we look for new vendors each year? Do vendors solicit to us? I have grave concerns about the reorganization that you're all about and it really needs to be involved with us. Thank you. Wes Dunsmore: Wes Dunsmore, 730 West 96th Street. I do appreciate you guys taking input. I know it's not fun sitting on that end but that's what you get the big bucks for I guess. I don't know the whole issues about this public safety but I know there's a lot of talk here on the money issues and stuff. Wondering what the price is on quality. I'm not out just for the cheap stuff. I know we have to watch the dollars and I really do appreciate that. But we want quality with it. I don't care, you don't have to put a name into that position but we are looking for quality I think. And I don't know if everybody understands what all the 19 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 safety. I hear a lot of talk about a little bit of patrolling and some fire you know training and stuff like that. I think there's a lot that I don't even know behind the scenes that public safety does. There's a lot of issues. They deal with other communities. They have that touch that only you have by being in that position. I know I work for the government for going on 28 years now and the things that you learn by having contact in other departments, other municipalities, it's really an educational thing. You can't put that on a college degree or anything else. It's that human contact that you have and I don't think you can separate public safety and just kind of disperse it. In my opinion, I don't think that works. I have no speech written up but I think as some people here mentioned, the real issues aren't out. And they probably never will be. They're looking for reasons why we're here. As an ex-marine and Viet Nam vet, I take my freedoms and rights pretty serious. I would like to know some of the reasons. I think I have a right to know. So we can deal with it. Get the cloudiness out of here. I don't know if we'll ever hear that but it sure would be nice. And I guess I do expect and I'll accept nothing less than 100% honesty from our government officials. If we can't get it there, where do we get it? I thank you for your time. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Leah Hawke: One more comment. It's from my kids. I promised I would say it. They just had two questions for the council and that is, are you going to get rid of the fire hydrant full of candy and what happens to the trading cards. Mayor Mancino: Anyone else wishing to contribute to the public hearing, and then we'll close it. Mona Kerber: Mona Kerber, 500 Chanview. My husband grew up in this city and I've been here for 25- 26 years. He's been on the fire department for 25 years. And along with him so have I. And as all the other fire department wives, I would hope that you would make sure the public safety helps to keep them safe as far as the police being able to be there to help them out. I know that Scott Harr was at quite a few fires. At major things. We don't only go to fires but they respond to all the accidents and everything else that happens. The cut finger. The whatever. And not only do the police officers and the fire department people respond to that. So do the wives and the children of those people. And we're concerned for their safety. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: We'll close the public hearing and bring this back to council for discussion and comment. Mark, you need to leave at 8:30? Councilman Engel: Roughly, yes. Mayor Mancino: And would you like to give some comment and. Councilman Engel: Sure, I'll kick it off. This just goes, I got writers cramp from writing notes here and just more data. This just goes right to the point where I'm in no position to make a decision on this tonight. If we stayed here until 1:00 in the morning I still wouldn't be. There's too much to think about. And just to get it on the record. I also have three children. The oldest one is 6 years old so there's nobody in the community that cares more about public safety than I do and I think it's anybody with children cares about that. So I'm going to make this decision with that in the back of my mind if not in the front so. And as everybody else up here on this council has their reasons for why they're concerned about safety, my children's most important for me. Economics, yes. Structure and reporting and long term quality and direction. Those are all the other things I'm thinking about. I've looked at all these options. There are just so many variables right now, I can't pick one that I just flat out. I don't like 3. I don't like 1. I like 1 with 20 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 2A and 2B. Or not 2B, I don't know yet. But it just needs some more thought. I'm thinking of probably a hybrid is what's going to be the result of all this. I don't know what that hybrid is. It's going to have the best components of what I, personally what I think is the best of each one. I'm just off the top of my head I'm not comfortable with seating all the control of our public safety functions to the county for precisely the reason one of you brought up and that was, you are serving two masters. Who is going to get the short end of the stick on certain days? I don't know. I'd like to talk to some of the people involved in Andover and see how they handle that because they get all there's from Anoka County. I'd like to hear from some of their staff. Todd, if there's anyway we could do that. Get some feedback. If they ever feel or experience that the Anoka County master outweighs the Andover master, I'd like to see that. For those of you who weren't here last week, Linda put together a terrific page of information. And Andover seems like, I'm not going to say anybody's a perfect fit but they're a pretty darn good one. They've got a lot of the same issues involved with growth that we do. They're a community that was out, away from the city. The suburbs are growing out and stretching to reach them. They're growing along the same rate. They've got roughly the same population. Their demographics are probably fairly similar so I'm going to use them for lack of anybody else as probably my first point of reference, and there are several others as well so there are some models out there that we can look at and make some judgments on. It wouldn't be taking place in a vacuum. All these decisions are going to take a lot of interaction. I think we just started last, actually we've been starting since December when these, when we even first decided to say well do we still need the public safety commission and department. I don't know. We weren't really discussing that back then. Now is when we're discussing that and I think there will be a lot of discussion over the next week or two or more. And I've got a lot on my mind with this right now. I don't favor any options. I think it's going to be a hybrid and I don't know what that hybrid is yet. Mayor Mancino: Are you thinking that you would be ready at the next City Council...to make a decision? Are you looking for more input... ? Councilman Engel: I'd like to think about everything I've got here. I'd like to talk to some more people. I'd like to get some feedback from Todd on how Andover and Anoka County specifically are dealing with these issues. I'd like to know if Bud Olson is excited to take this on, would it be under the condition or would we establish the condition that they give us an all inclusive contract which we don't have right now. I mean if we're going to go with that type of a contract, we'd need that. So I want to know if that's involved as the cost change. You know I don't know. Do we still have $102,000.00 cost advantage if we put those services in the contract or is that part of the contract? This is all the details we really don't have and we just need to get that out there. Once I've got that, I think we can start flushing out some alternatives. We could start putting some hybrid models together and saying here's something that looks good to me. Linda could put something together. Mark could put something together. I'd like to see us all come up with that. Go over it in some work sessions. One work session at least. And debate what we think is a good model. I like the start but I'm just not ready to pick one. So I'm ready to move forward by getting a little bit more detail first behind what would be involved in a full contract. I'm still a little uncomfortable with that because we lose total control of our community policing. But I'm not closed to any decision either so I'd like to see it. But I'd like to start skinnying down the options a little bit. We probably are going to expand them first and then start skinnying the list down so I'd like to see some hybrid models put together and discussed. And I think I could do that by next work session. I'd be ready to do that with next work session. Yeah. I'm going to stick around. I usually run through airports. Mayor Mancino: Well let me know. Steve. 21 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Labatt: The first thing is, I mean we're a week away from interviewing a new city manager. Or applicants. Probably within 30 days from offering a job. 60 days from having a new city manager. Occupying the vacant office upstairs. Why are we discussing this when we are looking 60 days down the road of hiring a new city manager? Why not wait until this person's on board? Let this person get acclimated to working in Chanhassen to the community. Understand our needs as a city and then let this new person, whoever it might be, or she, make some decisions. So I'll throw that out there first. And I'll also, is it even the responsibility of the council to tell the city manager how he has to organize his departments? ... departments and where he puts employees. That's just another question I'll throw out there. Okay, well I'm just. I'm just throwing that question out. Is he asking us for input but his final decision is with him or do we have the final say? I don't know where we sit in our responsibilities as a council. I heard some very enlightening comments tonight. Too little information. Too fast. New city manager. I heard from, emotional pleas from staff as to what the impact on them has been the last two months. So I'll throw those comments out there. And then looking at the options. You know why.., ship broken? Why not just leave it as is with Option 1. It's worked well for 13 years... Option 3. Linda provided us some facts and some numbers here. And as... point out that in Option 3, under the cost estimate for full police coverage from Carver County it incorporates 54 hours daily but I think that, I don't think it's any fault of Linda's or intent but we would need to, you know obviously there's other costs in here. $17,000.00 for one squad car. So if we're going to increase 36 hours or so. Whatever. 32 hours of police coverage. If we're going to increase the additional police coverage, we're going to have to buy police cars. That's going to be another cost in the contract that we're going to be charged for. And then we also need to look at the supervision. Right now we're paying for.., extent of $137,000.00. That incorporates manual costs of... and using the formula here to $137,000.00. We're going to be, we're going to have to adjust that to the tune of probably $75,000.00 by having one of the newly appointed Lieutenants, since Sheriff Olson's going through the board down there, providing supervision up here. So that would be a cost of $75,000.00 by this middle grounding this.., chief deputy salary. It might be more. It might be less. So I think there's more cost that we need to look overall with all three options and I would reserve more time for the end for additional comments when they come up... Mayor Mancino:... Audience: Mayor, we can't hear you. Mayor Mancino: Excuse me...to another work session? Councilman Labatt: Yeah. Another work session but let's give it some time here. I mean this is not something we're going to be able to discuss next week with hearing from the residents. Have a chance to digest information. Mayor Mancino:... Councilman Labatt: I'll go on the record too like Councilman Engel, I've got three kids under 18 months so they're my first priority. Mayor Mancino: Councilwoman Jansen. Councilwoman Jansen: I guess I want to maybe reply to some of the comments that came out this evening and last Monday night in our work session one of the things that was moved on right at the end of that session was that there would be two of us on this council working as a committee and calling and taking 22 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 input and getting feedback and basically bringing to the table more information as far as being able to make the decision. I'm looking around and there are many people in this room that I did speak with. I did put the phone calls in and looked for the input. I touched base with staff and I will say now thank you to the staff members who have been extremely professional. Spent the time with me on the phone. Giving me input and one of the things that I did express at that time was that I am certainly sensitive to what has been going on within the department. Mr. Labatt and I did go through an orientation program. We were introduced to all the different functions and personnel and had a wonderful exposure to this department and how it is structured. What makes it work. The significant parts of it that in fact everyone speaks to as having make it work. And I acknowledge those things. And hopefully those are the things that yes, we can both bring to the whole decision making process. In the course of speaking with people this week, and meaning staff as well as a couple of the commission representatives, I heard more than once get this done. The morale is low. We are hurting. There's a feeling of when is the next shoe going to drop. We don't know what's happening. You know it was make it stop. So it's a little difficult to then sit here and hear additional comments about how can you make that decision now. You want us, and myself. I speak as an individual here. You want us to be sensitive to what's going on within the city and making sure that you know safety is covered. That we're doing all the right things. And I'm hearing from internally, we need direction. We need to get this done. We need to get on with our lives. And we need to get down to business. Now if we do our diligence and that is what we're charged with. And yes, I started from you know presenting some numbers here because if we're doing this for the right reason, yes. Quality is an issue. It is a major issue and making sure that we have the right service. I'm not hearing anyone say anything negative about our share of deputies but no one has said, some of those deputies have been with Chanhassen for 10 years. And we're one of the high bid positions within the deputy ranks. We're getting high seniority deputies. And any time I have, myself have had to call and use their services before I was familiar with the city, I didn't distinguish between our officers and the Carver County deputy office. But I can tell you that it was, they were deputies that showed up you know for every call ever placed from our home. They were exceptional professionals and it didn't matter for how minor. These were not emergencies and the deputies were there in wonderful response time. So to think that we're making a decision in a vacuum when we've all sat here and the faces have become familiar after what, 60 days? I think we have all, whether we admit it publicly or not, we have spent a tremendous amount of time thinking about this. Asking questions. Is it fair for us to be calling the employees and asking them some of those questions? I don't know. I mean they're going through a lot right now. We've now called them. Gotten input. But to research this, we have to look beyond. We look for other county sheriff contracts so that we could do comparisons. Is another community our size properly covered by a Carver County sheriff's contract? And so I mean yes, we are doing our homework. We're bringing in the numbers. If you bring the numbers in you have to say, are we getting quality services at a cost effective price or we're not doing our jobs. I mean that is our job and yes we have to look for the safety. I don't want to carry on too much at length but I know I did my goals as to in the end what are we trying to accomplish. And I could speak to that now but I mean I'd be taking. Bob Ayotte: ... I want to know what the response time for a police officer in... Mayor Mancino: Excuse me Bob. Please. This is not, the public hearing is closed. If you can just wait please for her. She has the floor. Thank you. Councilwoman Jansen: If there's a problem with response time, it's not been brought to this council's attention. Bob Ayotte: I didn't say there was. I'll talk to you after... 23 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Or you can at least wait until we're done and we open it up. Thank you. Councilwoman Jansen: And again, looking at what is working. If we're going to change anything, and this was looking at all of the options that were presented to us by Mr. Gerhardt, 1 through 3B. And looking at those long term. Long term. Long term planning. We need a unified focus, community policing service. The most cost effective means of providing quality public safety service to the community. The resulting organization needs to provide for visibility and accessibility to the community. Connectedness and interdepartmental cooperation and communication between all public safety service organizations. That is what we are so renowned for. Is that we integrate all of these services into a well tuned working machine. The Carver County Sheriff's department. Chanhassen fire fighters. Minnesota State troopers. Paramedic services from two different communities. Southwest Metro Drug Task Force and then you've go the Department of Natural Resources Conservation Officers. So I mean, and I also noted etc. I know I've got MADD that I need to account for and there's you know probably several others. But communities manage to coordinate those things. We need to just make sure that we've got that mechanism in place or maintain it as any changes were to happen. Continued support for community policing. The bicycle patrol, water patrol. Continued support for crime prevention programs. The local control and identity. That is a major issue that going back even through the 80's comes up in all of the reports is that a major concern was whether or not we would be able to maintain the local control. Monitoring and reporting of successes and deficiencies. We need to be sure that we have a mechanism in place that's tracking where we are and what's happening. Reporting back. Suggesting if we've got problems, then how do we address them. Whether that's you know the liaison commission or you know I guess it was called a police liaison commission at one point. And get the significant players involved so that there's open communication. And those were all things that in the process of doing my research on the background of where this department's been in Chanhassen, came out as significant issues. That I think we've all paid time thinking about. I mean it does. It gets down to are our streets safe? Is our community well covered? But how do we best do that? Because the initial plan didn't have a splintered department to where the one internally continued to grow and we held the patrol hours flat. And the patrol hours have been flat for 5 years and I realize that there's been the significance of our having you know the internal hours, but you know where are we shorting and if it is under one umbrella, is that being better addressed in totality? And in the conversation with Sheriff Olson, he understands the significance of the coverage that we need. The community orientation that we need. And he is prepared to step up and put into a transitional plan what this community needs. It's like Andover said to me, they are the biggest community within Anoka County. And they are significant to the sheriff's department so the sheriff's department bends over backwards to make sure that Andover's happy because they don't want to lose that contract. It's a completely perspective so then are we asking of the sheriff's department what we need? And what I'm hearing is they will put our emblem and serving Chanhassen on the sides of the cars. They'll provide the patrol hours that we need. Those are all things that Andover spoke to as well that were important. And we need to make it visible to the community. I went back through a year and a half worth of quarterly newsletters and we make stand out our logo and our Chanhassen city employees very nicely. But we need to say to the community call the sheriff's department. They're there. We need to show them. Your know a flier to the community with the phone number for the sheriff's department. I floored a few people who said well I only know to call 911. Well call the non-emergency number for the sheriff's department, 361-1231. I mean but do we get that information out there? I mean they're significantly in our community and I'm, I guess what I'm reacting to is I heard here tonight that we're not answering the questions. We're not saying how we're doing it or why we're doing it. And I have welcomed the phone calls. I have spent hours speaking with anyone who has approached me and said, come on. You know we'd like some feedback. If what you're saying is are we going to get our answers to the letters in the Villager, I don't know if that's a 24 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 communication tool. I don't take it that way. I don't pick up the phone and call the authors so if I'm offending someone by not doing that, then I apologize. But I would better be able to communicate from a phone call and I don't know that anyone has ever refused to take a phone call but I certainly haven't. And I certainly approach the employees and said now's the time. Now is the time to say you know what it is that we need to be addressing. Inform us. Let us know what the key issues are and again thank you. They did. Councilman Engel: I'd like to state just before I take off. I know I don't have to remind Councilman Senn of this but there's a complete record of the minutes for everything said in the council meeting so I would invite you please, if you continue making comments. Speak directly into that microphone so that the minutes are clear because it gives us a chance to review all this over the weekend. Thursday when we get our packet for next week. And if the deputy would be so kind as to give me a 3 minute head start out of the parking lot and clear 494, I'd appreciate it. Mayor Mancino: Councilwoman Jansen, would you like to see this move forward to the next work session? Maybe Roger, can we just stop this and forward to the next work session and continue this discussion? Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Roger Knutson: You can table this item to...time you think is appropriate. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Councilwoman Jansen: I obviously want everyone to be able to gather the information and I thought that's what we were doing. So if Councilman Engel needs more time, I think mine isn't short the process but I do think that, and again if the employees feel differently then they need to you know counter what they said to me this week. But I got the sense that this, if there's going to be a change, then they need completion. They need to start the healing process is what they're saying to me. I mean that's what I heard. That's what I was told. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn: Well hearing what I think is probably the consensus at this point to put this to another work session, I think I'll be very brief. Plus I don't want to be repetitive. Many of the steps which Councilperson Jansen traced also traced I think, I can't speak as to what each and every city council person has done in terms of their due diligence but I think the majority of the council has taken this issue very seriously as it relates to due diligence. We've, you know everything from contact other cities to see how other cities are doing it to getting data and information that's available to us and organizations to spending several occasions meeting with and talking with the sheriff. Sheriff department and staff. The... last weeks efforts of, especially in terms of the contacts and calls that we asked her to make a week ago and feedback from that. I think that personally there's enough information there to proceed with basically discussion and decisions that we need to make. I too think that, and a lot of the comments I've been getting is let's get it done with. And I'm trying to get it done with and move on potentially we aren't quite to that point and it's another week to do that which I'm hearing a few people say, then so be it but let's move on and get it done. Councilman Labatt: I think one comment here as far as, Linda referred to having a mechanism in place. I think we had a mechanism in place with the public safety director. He saw to it that our needs as a 25 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 community were being met in the case of the contract. And... Option 1. And during my campaign this past fall, not once did I hear somebody.., did I hear lower my taxes by removing the public safety department... There's a lot of other little programs out there that Chan Public Safety does that the Carver County Sheriff does not do... programs that many of us are aware of. Crime prevention. Things that Scott and Beth have done. Sometimes it's just the little things that, stick with what you have so... Mayor Mancino: Thank you. I'll give just a few of my comments. And mine are mostly ditto from everyone elses as far as getting, tabling this til Monday. But a few of the things that I've heard, and I want to go back to another area in public safety that we have gotten as a council a lot of input from, not at tonight or a month ago but has been inspections. And that has been from the Chamber of Commerce. A lot of the members there when we have gone to a meeting and they spoke to the entire council in September and we broke up into different tables and they had lots of concerns about inspections. In fact they faxed to us in the inspections, this is from their concerns to us. Are the members of the council and the city staff aware of the increased cost of doing business in Chanhassen due to the manner in which city inspectors pass judgment? Comment. These increased costs are passed onto business owners and tenants which puts them at a competitive disadvantage to those doing businesses in other communities. It also discourages the business community investing and serving those who live here. Construction is over inspected compared to neighboring cities. Little or no judgment is used to whether alternatives proposals meet the intent of the code. Rather builders are required to meet the strictest interpretation of code. They also say, do we discourage business by harassing them with new construction and alternation cost required by building inspections, and that is in all due respect to the inspections department. Not to say anything about that, but to let you know that we are getting feedback and we have been for the last year from other community members that have been concerned with some of the way the public safety department and what's going on in there. And again, they have called. They have voiced concerns and wanted us to look in that area and whether inspections should be kept under public safety or whether it should be moved to community development. And the philosophy that they have passed on to council members is, wouldn't it be more user friendly under community development and it is also that way in most other cities. So they did want us to look at that and have brought that up to the council again many times and I know that that hasn't been talked about in the last couple of months. We still, we need to listen to those other members of the community. So that is something that I think we also need to talk about when we... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Mayor Mancino: That's Tuesday, excuse me. On the 17th. Thank you. What is the 16th? Roger Knutson: Presidents Day. Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much. Then I do, I would like to spend some time going over not only the numbers but the quality of services compared to the numbers that Linda handed out tonight and look at that and understand it. And also the goals that you have written down. That was just a wonderful presentation. So with that can we. Councilman Labatt: I'd like to make just one more comment. Mayor Mancino: Sure. Councilman Labatt: ... inspections. I was curious about inspections too and in fact I had two inspectors out at my house today doing my basement and my deck, neither of which passed I will proudly admit. But 26 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 it brings up a point. I mean with why it didn't pass you know. And it was right from building code. The same code that every city goes off of and the glass railing I had my deck did not have the tempered glass logo on there which is required by building code. Now I've got to go back. Get a hold of the contractor to find out for sure that it was tempered glass and building code. There's a reason for that is number one, safety. If the glass breaks, it breaks into little itty bitty pieces. Not big shards and hurt someone. And is it a hassle for me? Not really. I don't really mind. I mean you know, sure. The inspectors have to come back out. It's probably more of a hassle for them. But I also have some comment cards here that I got from the inspections department. And here's one here from, am I allowed to say the names here? Who they're from? Mayor Mancino: You don't need to, do you? I mean just to give the comment. Councilman Labatt: Well... say names on who's commenting. Roger Knutson: I don't know what you're reading so I can't. Councilman Labatt: Well comment cards. Roger Knutson: ... it falls under the government data privacy act. Councilman Labatt: Okay. Here's one from Eden Trace Company. Are there any areas we need to improve? I've had a very good working relationship with the building department and appreciate their quick.., of my plan reviews and inspections. My experience with city employees has been pleasant and very professional. Special thanks to Steve Kirchman and Bob Reid. Another one here from a guy name Bob. Excellent service overall. I think we need to take a look at these here. Try to maintain a 24 hour to 48 hour lead for inspections. And comments I've heard when Linda referred to it the day her and I rode along with the inspectors before we were sworn in. Every inspection I went to, the building sup or the developer said we need more inspectors. We can't wait 48 hours to get inspectors in because there's development so, in such high demand here. Another one here, the inspectors always appeared on time. You know a lot of inspection times for a lead time and.., so there's all kinds of comments here that, as long as the comments are being made about the inspectors and the ones that you led to. Refer to were negative in context. I got very positive ones too that I thought. Mayor Mancino: Well, and I wasn't trying to do a tit for tat thing with inspections. Councilman Labatt: I know you weren't. Mayor Mancino: I'm just saying that. Councilman Labatt: I mean I got the supporting documents to say it so. Mayor Mancino: So that's why we always hear both sides of issues. So may I have a motion please? I mean I think we're done. I think we want to make sure that Councilman Engel is with us and we're discussing this and coming to conclusion. Councilwoman Jansen: I guess if we just again emphasize, if this is being tabled for input, please call. If you've got new information that you want to share. If you've got questions about what we know or don't know. If you've got information, you know share and call. 27 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Labatt: Can we, before we make a motion, can we re-open the public hearing to take comments tonight when things are fresh in people's minds? Can we do that? Re-open the public hearing? Mayor Mancino: Sure. Roger Knutson: Tuesday, it's not a regular council meeting. It's a work session. Todd Gerhardt: So no decisions can be made. Mayor Mancino: No. No...was asking tonight. Sure, we can take a few more comments. We'll take a few more comments tonight and then that will be it. Public hearing. Bob Ayotte: Thank you very much Mayor. I appreciate that. Clarification. I am not disagreeing with the fact that possibly Carver County would be an excellent opportunity. What I am disagreeing over is the fact that the council has not sought out the expertise to build specification. Scope of work. Congress, or councilman. You may be a congressman one of these days Senn but right now Councilman Senn. The point is that you need to push it through but we do not want euthanasia. We need to have the scope understood. What is the specification? How many acres of lakes do we have? How many linear miles of road do we have to patrol? Has that data, that empirical data been collected from people like this to say okay. Now what are the law enforcement issues associated with it? In addition I believe there is a faint going on. A rouse. Because you're talking about public safety when in fact the organizational charts that Mr. Gerhardt presented was for an entire city organization. So let's see specification. The requirements list for everything. Not simply public safety. Then the appearance of rouse won't be there. Then we'll know that there is sincerity in looking at an organizational structure that will support us as a community. So I would ask that you would consider that. And I would ask that you look at the inside experts. There's nothing wrong with taking the analytical skills of your engineer force to help build a specification for public safety. It will work. But then you take, you had to bring in the expertise like this gentleman over here was talking about to take a look at not only the fiscal issues but the other tasks that have to be accomplished. You don't know your requirements as yet. I don't know then. I'm not suggesting I do. All I'm saying is I would ask that you research that. And I also would like a point of clarification. Mr. Gerhardt, did you in fact ask the council to change the organizational structure of the city? It's either yes, no or I don't know. Those are three answers. Mayor Mancino said to Councilman Labatt, I thought, that you had requested that the organization of the city change. Is that true or not true? Todd Gerhardt: What was asked was that at the beginning of the year that we would look at. Bob Ayotte: Todd, could you get closer to the mic? Todd Gerhardt: At the beginning of the year we were asked to look at the reorganization of city hall. Not just personnel but also the commissions and we also were asked to look at the public safety director's position. Bob Ayotte: Who asked and why? Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, do you want me to answer these questions? Mayor Mancino: Sure. 28 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Todd Gerhardt: Okay. It was the directive of the City Council to research these items. Bob Ayotte: I didn't hear you. Todd Gerhardt: It was from the City Council. Bob Ayotte: Okay. And why? What was the rationale for asking for organizational change? Was there something not operating properly? Todd Gerhardt: No. When you see the amount of change over that we've seen here, you want to take a look at your entire structure. Bob Ayotte: The amount of change over. What change over are you referring to? Todd Gerhardt: With the vacancy of the public safety director position. Looking at replacing the city manager position. Bob Ayotte: That's a fair response. I understand. So because of the organizational change, or the changes in personnel it would make sense to look at the organization? Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Bob Ayotte: Okay. But please, I ask again, please build your spec first. Identify the requirements and gain some of the expertise that are out in the community to help you out. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Anyone else and then we're closing the public hearing. Barb Klick: Barb Klick again. Am I correct to assume that right now we still have a public safety commission in existence? Todd Gerhardt: We do have a public safety commission. However, we do not have a public safety director to assist in taking information back to the public safety commission so until such time as. Barb Klick: Okay, but aren't you acting at, aren't you acting in that role? You or Mr. Ashworth? Who's the lynchpin between the public safety commission if they're in existence and the Council? Todd Gerhardt: The code calls for a public safety director to coordinator the public safety commission. Barb Klick: Right. But we don't have one right now so who is assuming the responsibilities? Would that be Bob Z? Would that be you? And what I'm getting at is, we have a system in place. That's what I was trying to appeal to you before. I mean we have built this with our fore fathers about a system that has been working and I've not heard anyone say let's involve the public safety commission for input about this reorg. This is the biggest thing that has involved public safety in the 12 years since I've lived here. Why would we not use this expertise that we have in place to give input to how we want the city to look like? So if that commission is still in place, I think this should be with the input of the public safety commission. I can't believe how we would work around them or without them. I'd be very dismayed if that community input was not sought. Thank you. 29 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Okay, public hearing is closed on this. Go ahead if you want to get up one last time. Leah Hawke: Well I just have a question and that is, there's been a lot of information here and I work with numbers every day in a brokerage firm but I've not made sense of these yet and I would like an opportunity, as I'm sure a lot of people in this room would, to look through the information that's been handed out today so that we could make comment again. Mayor Mancino: Sure. We'll have that available. Up at the front desk. Leah Hawke: ... Mayor Mancino: Come back up. Come back up. Leah Hawke: I'm confused. I'm always coming out of these meetings confused so I just want to clarify. You're going to have a work session and. Mayor Mancino: They're going to continue this hearing, this discussion at a work session. Leah Hawke: Right, but the work session rules of procedure don't allow for public comment. Right? So you're going to continue it but we kind of have to sit back with any information that we might want to share at that meeting or others, because I'm sure there will be others coming out as this gets known. All I'm asking is there going to be an opportunity for input on the different options? This is the first time I've seen some of these options. Mayor Mancino: And part of that can, or most of that can be done with, if you want to call councilmembers and give them your input, etc. You can do that. You can send it to us. E-mail it to us with questions and concerns. Leah Hawke: So there's no more public comment after tonight on the reorganization? Can I just. Mayor Mancino: No, not unless the council decides to go to another council meeting. Leah Hawke: Okay. Mayor Mancino: Okay? Thank you. Public hearing is closed. We'll go onto our next agenda item. Thank you. I suppose we do have to make the motion to table this to keep going. Councilman Senn: What are we talking about doing? Tabling this meeting or action or whatever to the work session? Mayor Mancino: Continuing it at the work session on Monday night. Councilman Senn: So continuation of this meeting basically to Tuesday night. Roger Knutson: If you want to be able to take action on Tuesday night. 30 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilwoman Jansen: On this item. Councilman Senn: What's the proper way that you do that? Roger Knutson: You table this item to Tuesday night and direct the Acting City Manager to post this as a regular city council meeting for this item. If you want to take action. Councilman Senn: Okay. So moved. Mayor Mancino: Is there a second? Councilwoman Jansen: I'll second. Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Jansen seconded to table action on the Organizational Issues until Tuesday, February 16, 1999 at which time action will be taken. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Mayor Mancino: Okay. So it will be on next Tuesday night, February 17th work session at, what time do we start? Kate Aanenson: It's the 16th isn't it? Mayor Mancino: February 16th or is it 17th? Councilman Senn: Whatever Tuesday is. Mayor Mancino: Tuesday. Whatever Tuesday is. 17th. It's the 16th. Okay. Tuesday on the 16th. Jan Lash: ... at the next city council meeting... Mayor Mancino: We may do it at the work session, depending on whether. Jan Lash: And you can take action and call for a vote at a work session? Mayor Mancino: That's exactly, yes. Jan Lash: Roger? Roger Knutson: Yes. It will be listed as a regular city council meeting for this agenda item. Jan Lash: And then you take action on it? Councilwoman Jansen: Todd, can you still get it advertised in the Villager? Are you doing the work session things in the Villager? Todd Gerhardt: I don't believe. Dean just walked out. I don't believe he, I don't think he can get the ad in in time tomorrow. 31 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Roger Knutson: It doesn't have to be in the paper. Mayor Mancino: It doesn't have to be in the paper. Patsy Bernhjelm: Mayor Mancino: No Roger just said it didn't have to be. Patsy, yes. ... Tuesday night for people to come... Can we open that up Roger is we continue it? We can open it up if we want to. Roger Knutson: It's your decision. You can do it either way. Mayor Mancino: Okay. It will be our decision to do it that night. My decision if we want to open it up and usually I open it up to comments. But it would be helpful again to get e-mails or questions that you have. So again let me make this very clear. Next Tuesday night we are going to continue this conversation on organization issues. We're going to do it as a council and we will probably do it in a work session style. How we've been here. How we were before. And at that work session, the continuation of that meeting, yes I will probably allow for some public comment. But please come with different comments. New comments than tonight. I mean that would be helpful because obviously, will we be able to get minutes before the work session? Nann? Nann? You're the hot person on the seat. Will we be able to get, thank you. So there will be minutes. Councilman Labatt: Mayor? Mayor Mancino: Yes. Councilman Labatt: Maybe it might behoove us to invite the Sheriff to hear his comments. Maybe even relook at Mark's motion to continue.., look at making a decision such as this, going to Option 3, maybe we could have the chance to talk to him. Councilwoman Jansen: Just informationally, we had pursued that with him for this evening but because of the things on his agenda, that was not a possibility so we were able to at least get comment before there was going to be any conversation going down this line. But just FYI. Just FYI. Councilman Senn: Well those of you who haven't, contact him. Go talk to him. That's what we did. Councilman Labatt: But I think the public would like to hear what he has to say. Mayor Mancino: That's not a bad idea. Why don't we see if he can make it. Okay. Jan Lash: Mayor, are you thinking of inviting the public safety board? Mayor Mancino: Most of them I think are here tonight. Jan Lash:... Jim Sloss: ... sort of the way things are going so. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Next item on the agenda. Is everybody ready? Understood? 32 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilwoman Jansen: Can we take like a 5 minute please recess? Mayor Mancino: Sure. Councilwoman Jansen: Sure. Mayor Mancino: Leah, what's still your question? Leah Hawke: No, that's fine. I'm...what we can and can't do and council... Mayor Mancino: Well Roger is here, if you have a question. Leah Hawke: Well I know Roger is here but I maybe want to do my own research. Mayor Mancino: Okay. You're welcome to ask him. We're going to take a 5 minute break. PUBLIC HEARING: AMENDMENT TO CITY CODE CHAPTER 19, ARTICLE IV CONCERNING INDIVIDUAL SANITARY SEWAGE TREATMENT SYSTEMS. Steve Kirchman: Well I lost most of my audience but we'll go ahead anyway. Councilman Senn: Do you want us to bring them back Steve? Steve Kirchman: Not unless... Mayor, City Council. Revisions that are required to our current ISTS septic code were discussed at the November 2nd '98 work session and I've attached the information to the packet that was submitted for that work session. Our current code does not meet the requirements of Chapter 7080, the Minnesota Rules which govern septic systems so our current code has to be revised. So based on the information you gave me at that work session, we looked into all the possibilities and the current Carver County code ordinance adequately addressed all the concerns we had with our ordinance and offer some additional provisions that staff fek would be beneficial to the city. Those are licensed ISTS professionals will have standard codes to use throughout the county which will simplify procedures, provide for less confusion and more uniformity of requirements and inspections on septic systems. Required septic tank sizes required by the Carver County code are larger than are currently required by Chanhassen code. These larger, the larger capacity lessens the need for more frequent tank inspection and/or pumping. Our code currently requires inspection and/or pumping every 2 years but with a larger capacity we feel that 3 years that is in the Carver County ordinance is adequate. The Carver County ordinance requires maintenance but has no specifics as to methodology. This permits Chanhassen to take one of two routes. We can develop our own program. Actually three routes. Develop our own program. Develop one in cooperation with the county. Or have the county administer a maintenance program. I've attached a copy of the ordinance revising and adopting Carver County ordinance 21E. Hopefully everyone's had a chance to review it and compare it to our existing ordinance. Next item I want to address is septic tank maintenance. Maintenance is important for a couple of reasons. Periodic, proper tank pumping removes solids from the tanks, preventing the solids from entering the treatment area and causing premature failure of the ISTS. State rules establish requirements for tank inspection and maintenance. The rules, as well as the proposed ordinance do not require pumping unless scum and/or sludge layers have reached critical levels. Review and approval of the Chanhassen Comp Plan by the Met Council is contingent upon the city having some type of ISTS management program, or septic tank maintenance program. The terms can be used interchangeably. So, options. The city may develop and administer it's 33 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 own management plan or utilize the Carver County plan which they are in the process of developing and in which case we'd have to work out agreements with the county on administrative responsibilities. City staff was previously in the process of developing a plan for ISTS management and can implement a plan using existing staff and software. We have somebody on staff who knows how to use access. We've already developed all the letters. We did this a couple years ago and then got so busy we had to drop it but we've developed the greater part of it. We need some work from the GIS people as far as determining properties that are, a list of properties that are on septics but it should be pretty easy to develop. So that's one option. The other option is to go with the county. They have developed, or have applied for a grant to prepare and implement a plan. Prepare and implement a plan. City staff estimates that an ISTS management plan can be developed and implemented by the end of June, 1999. That's if we do it on our own. Met Council will permit implementation as late as the end of '99 but prefers earlier. Met Council requires a letter from the city and/or Carver County detailing the management plan along with the date of implementation. Utilization of the county plan will require joint agreement between the city and county. So what I'm asking you to do here is make a decision whether you want to let city staff implement a management plan or have Carver, go with Carver County and use their plan. Basically those two options. So recommendations. Staff recommends the Council adopts the ordinance. Number one, adopts the ordinance revising and adopting Carver County Ordinance #21E. And authorize staff to develop and implement an ISTS management plan. Questions? Mayor Mancino: I don't have any questions but I just want to make sure Steve that, well I guess I do have two. You want us to adopt a new ordinance amending our Chapter 19. Steve Kirchman: That's correct. Basically what we're doing is throwing away our old ordinance completely and adopting the Carver County ordinance which Roger has revised to take the word county out and put city in basically. Mayor Mancino: So it's really our ordinance now amending Chapter 197 Kate Aanenson: But it's consistent with the County which is one of the things we wanted to make sure. Mayor Mancino: And secondly, how long will it take Carver County to do? Steve Kirchman: They aren't able to tell me. They haven't started developing their management plan. They're waiting for approval of the grant from Met Council before they do that. Kate Aanenson: My understanding from Jack Frost at the Met Council, they are also obligated to have theirs in place by the end of 1999. Steve Kirchman: That's about what I was to tell her. They have to have theirs in place by the end of the year per Met Council. And if we give the Met Council a letter saying we're going to use the Carver County plan, they will also give us til the end of 1999. Mayor Mancino: Can we wait until Carver County does theirs and then look at it and say whether we want to you know, make a few revisions and go forward with a revised Carver County management plan? Like we did much with this one? Steve Kirchman: That's very likely. I talked to Jack Frost. He said he would give us, the city until the end of '99. He preferred earlier but he did say that he would do that. I've got his verbal agreement. 34 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Okay. Kate Aanenson: What we're looking for is to get the adoption of the comprehensive plan and to accomplish that we have to have this management plan in place. The second component is, are we going to do it or is the county. Either way it has to be done by 1999. What they need from us is a letter saying that we haven't decided exactly how we're going to implement the management plan. We want time to study what the county's going to do. That's acceptable. And if we do that, then we have to come back with a joint powers agreement. But what they're looking for is that we have an action plan and we are committed to do it by the end of the year. What Steve Kirchman's recommending is that there is another alternative and that is that we could do it in house ourselves and that was his recommendation is that we try to do it in-house. The software's there and it can be done in-house. Which gives some local control so, and Steve can answer those questions better. Mayor Mancino: Any other questions for staff at this point because I need to open this for a public hearing. Councilman Labatt: So if we do it in-house, would you utilize current employees? ... cost in doing it? Steve Kirchman: It's only going to take us 30 hours of software development time to write the program. And then we will have to have the city GIS person pull out the places that are on septic, and I don't have an estimate for that cost but I can't imagine it'd be too much because I know, already know 75% of them so I just need the other 25%. So those are the costs. So those people, that 32 hours, I'm going to lose that in inspection time because it is going to be one of my inspectors who know access who's going to be doing this but that's, I can live with that. That's right now we're slowing up so I can work with that. Councilman Labatt: So the cost is minimal? Steve Kirchman: The cost is very minimal. And as far as the Mayor's suggestion that we wait and see what the county plan is. We do have to get something to Met Council immediately. Either saying we're going to go with the county and then an agreement with the county or we can send them something saying we're going to do it and send them details of the plan which I am able to do right now and tell them that we're going to do that and implement it in six months. And if we change our mind I'm sure they would still let us go with the county because they've already said they'd let us go with the county and do it, and have til the end of the year to do it. Kate Aanenson: I think we can say, bide some time and say we're working to see what they come back with and we want to study it but either way we're going to have a system in place. That's a third option. Steve Kirchman: They want to know that we're actively getting it and what it's going to be like and they want to know that now. Kate Aanenson: The positive about keeping it in-house is that more than likely, one of the inspectors may have to go out. If there's a failing system or they're putting a new system in, we're going to be out there anyway so there may be some duplication. So there may be some pro's to keeping it in-house. 35 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Steve Kirchman: One clarification. We're not looking at systems. The only thing we, we or the county are going to be looking at is tanks. In this program. That's all this program looks at is tanks. Systems are looked at through the ordinance that I've recommend you adopt. Mayor Mancino: This is open for a public hearing. Anyone wishing to address the council. Councilwoman Jansen, any comments? Councilwoman Jansen: I guess I don't have any comments beyond what's already been answered as to whether or not it should be in-house or county seem to be the only question that was looming and I guess I'd lean towards in-house. Just so that we would have you know more the control. Councilman Senn: Nothing other than judging from the lack of comment I think we have finally found an issue or field we have an expertise in. Mayor Mancino: Okay. In-house? County? Councilman Senn? Councilman Senn: I said nothing other than... Mayor Mancino: Councilman Labatt. Councilman Labatt: ... Mayor Mancino: Can I have a motion for our new city ordinance. Please, adopting this. Amending Chapter 19. Councilman Senn: So moved. Roger Knutson: This is the first reading.., waive the second reading. Kate Aanenson: I was going to ask if we could waive the second one. Councilman Senn: Move to approve and waive second reading. Mayor Mancino: May I have a second? Councilwoman Jansen: I'll second. Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Jansen seconded to approve first reading and waiving second reading to adopt the ordinance revising and adopting Carver County Ordinance #21E, and authorizing staff to develop and implement an ISTS management plan. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Do we need a motion to in-house or out of house? Steve Kirchman: My recommendation was to develop it in-house so. Mayor Mancino: I think there's consensus here. 36 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: That's part of your motion. Mayor Mancino: I'm sorry, do we need to make another motion on that? Roger Knutson: No. It's staff's understanding that you... Mayor Mancino: Oh, great. Thank you. APPOINTMENT OF OFFICIAL NEWSPAPER. Mayor Mancino: Actually I had asked Mr. Trippler to be here. Staff report please. Todd Gerhardt: At our January 25, 1999 City Council meeting, the City Council had asked staff to look at getting bids on the official newspaper. During that period the Lakeshore Weekly News was doing their due diligence and looking at locating an office in Chanhassen. However, at this point they do not feel comfortable in making that decision and have withdrawn their application of being designated as the city's official newspaper. Based on that, staff would recommend that the Chanhassen Villager be appointed the official newspaper for the 1999 calendar year. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Any questions? Comments? Councilwoman Jansen: I guess I'm feeling somewhat inclined Mayor to comment to this and here I've said that I don't want to necessarily be replying to editorials but if in fact Mr. Trippler were present I do feel the need to maybe clarify to him what had triggered the whole conversation as far as you know the issue of the newspaper and now it appears to the community as if we've tried to undermine their business and I guess just tracing the time line, you know knowing that every year we designate the legal newspaper, with the Lakeshore News being aware of that process, they did submit a bid to us and you know, call it doing our diligence in comparing the bids, it did pan out that if we were to follow the competitiveness between the two, there was a significant savings. It would have been a 30% savings. And to clarify that it would have just been the legal notices. We obviously had no intention of knocking the Chanhassen Villager out of Chanhassen but in the competitive nature that we're trying to make sure that we're pricing things as sharply as we can back to our residents and coming out of the whole budget process, in looking at the numbers we really did feel that, and again my apologies to Mr. Trippler because I did pursue it. And we tabled it because we needed to see if even statutorily we could consider it. I gather maybe historically we haven't gotten a formal bid at the annual meeting you know to designate the legal newspaper so maybe Mr. Trippler wasn't aware that that's a regular occurrence. I gather that happens in all communities. But I did want to maybe clarify, and especially to the residents and maybe it will take a clarification in the Villager to set that straight. That it wasn't, it was nothing personal. It was looking at the numbers and where do we best get our cost effectiveness in the legal notices. It wouldn't have been moving anything else and it would have been significant. About $5,500.00, which as we came through the budgeting process led you to wonder you know how many PC's or how many other projects. I mean we definitely had really been through it as far as numbers and I guess for the record, to apologize to Mr. Trippler that that was taken personally. It certainly was not meant that way and I don't know if anyone else got a phone call. I know that I wasn't approached as far as any clarification as to. Mayor Mancino: I did get one and the person who called said that obviously it wasn't in the paper that there was another bid. That it was 30% lower so they were surprised to hear, oh. You know you send that out for a bid or whatever and you did get another one 30% lower. And I said so we said to ourselves, is it 37 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 apples to apples? If somebody can do it 30% lower, are they really doing the same thing that the Villager does. And he was very surprised and thanked me for that information. Because it obviously did not come out that way in the paper. So it's too bad. Anyway, so let's have a motion for the, because the Lakeshore Weekly News did withdraw. Councilman Senn: Well I'd like to finish comments first if we could. Mayor Mancino: Sure. Councilman Senn: I'm going to ditto I guess what both of you said. At the same time I'm a little dismayed that every meeting we've had to discuss this issue, the vendor hasn't been here so we can have a dialogue with him. Which I would still really like to have before we approve it. Roger even shows up when we're going to reappoint him City Attorney so. But you know the interesting part is you read one slant, you know that's evidently appeared in the newspaper but none of it's.., that were concerns and issues of ours that... So we still haven't had a dialogue and I don't really feel comfortable running in and rushing into this decision and saying let's just appoint a newspaper when we haven't even had an opportunity to relay our true comments to them, which have been relayed at meetings but evidently because they're not there, they haven't got them because those haven't appeared anywhere. Because there's some significant issues since we got into this issue and asked for the background and the information. We have done our due diligence. I mean there are specific statutory requirements in terms of what's supposed to be done and that's not what's happening. And I think we need to assure that those are being done, or at least ask the paper why they can't be done, you know if they present a problem. And we do also have the ongoing issue of trying to hit all the households which has been an ongoing issue for as many years as I've been here. And still have no response on that issue. So again I mean, it'd be nice to have our opportunity to give them input and have a dialogue over this issue before we just simply, how would I say, reappoint or pass it for another year. Because then what's going to happen is it's just not going to happen again. Mayor Mancino: My suggestion would be to go ahead and vote to make it official and also to, Todd if you could speak with Dean about having him meet with the council at a work session. Take a half an hour with Dean and go over maybe some of the concerns about distribution and what official proceedings really are. I don't know if that does it for you. So that would be a suggestion. Councilman Senn: Well yeah, the statutory requirements you know cover most everything so. In terms of what's supposed to be done so we could, but it'd be nice to make sure that we have a meeting of the minds on that. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Councilman Labatt: I'll echo your same concerns Mayor. Support the Villager right now. I know the distribution, I talked with Mr. Trippler and currently I believe he said there's like 5,600 or 5,700 for circulation. The difference between that and what is in Chan unfortunately the majority of it is out in the 55311. Up on the north side of Minnewashta and the west side. And he assured me that all those people have to do was call. Give him their address and they would get this free paper. Councilman Senn: It's 55331. Councilman Labatt: 3317 Okay. 38 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: And we can give him all the addresses through our GIS system, which is what offered to do last year. Councilman Labatt: Well... I'm in support of just, naming the Villager as the official paper now. Get it over with and... Mayor Mancino: Well, let's do that. I want to bring up one other point and that is, if they're free. They should just be delivered. I don't think somebody even has to call and ask for it. I think Eden Prairie or at least I've heard. I don't know how, I heard this more rumor wise. That they deliver to everybody. If you don't want it, then you call and you say don't deliver it to me. And I think because we just want to make sure that our public notices. Nothing else. We just want to make sure that our public notices get out to everyone. And so if somebody has to stop and make the phone call, that's called slippage in marketing. That's how you get the countdown and it's just pure slippage. So if we say to Mr. Trippler, please make sure, even those, cover that whole 55331 area, which is mine too. Bulk mail it, do whatever you need to but make sure every household gets it. Councilman Labatt: That would include Tonka Bay, Greenwood, Shorewood. Mayor Mancino: No. The post office can pick out, and I can tell you exactly what the numbers are for Chanhassen, or were, but the post office knows exactly out of 55331 which part is Chanhassen. Absolutely. Councilman Senn: They do 55318. Mayor Mancino: They do. And they do it, I can tell you that through the election process when we do bulk mails there. Excellent there. They know what those numbers are and who they deliver to. So you can ask for that. May I have a motion then and Todd, if you'll go ahead and get a meeting. Councilman Labatt: I'll make a motion we appoint the Chan Villager... Mayor Mancino: I'll second that. Councilman Labatt moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to appoint the Chanhassen Villager as the official newspaper for 1999. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PRELIMINARY PLAT OF OUTLOT B, ARBORETUM BUSINESS PARK AND THE SOUTHERN 100 FEET OF CITY OWNED PROPERTY (WRASE) INTO TWO LOTS; LOCATED SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 5 AND EAST OF TH 41, ARBORETUM BUSINESS PARK 3m~ ADDITION, STEINER DEVELOPMENT. Bob Generous: Thank you Madam Mayor and Council members. Normally this item would just come back for final plat approval. However, as part of the original subdivision the Wrase parcel was excluded from the subdivision and now we're adding the southern 100 feet of that parcel to this plat and to make sure that everything's copesetic we wanted council, city approval on that. It's a pretty straight forward subdivision. We're creating two lots. The uses are spelled out in the design standards for Arboretum Business Park. That won't change. A lot of the conditions are the same. Staff is recommending approval of this subdivision subject to the conditions of the staff report. However, we are reflecting modification of some of the conditions. On page 16, condition number 21. This condition can be deleted. The buildings 39 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 are on the city parcel. They not within this subdivision. Page 17. Condition 24. Line two. It should be Project No. 97-1. Delete D. And on line three, at the end of the line delete Phase III. Mayor Mancino: That's in parens? Oh! Feasibility study for Phase III? Bob Generous: For Phase III, yes. Just delete the phrase Phase III because the feasibility study incorporates all the public improvements for the development and it's spelled out as part of that. Also the applicant submitted a fax to the city today and I've provided you with a copy. Item number 27 regarding the existing driveway serving the Wrase piece and the problem with this is the driveway's on the 100 feet that the city's transferred to the developer. We put in the condition that this driveway should remain in place until the existing homes on the city property are removed or demolished. However the applicant has an easement agreement that says they can provide an alternative access to that. I provided also a copy of that. That was dated June 29, 1998 and they recommend that we just go with that language. A third option would be to put in, leave in the city's condition but come up with a date certain that the city would have to remove or demolish the property. And I can show you the location of that. It's highlighted in yellow. This is the existing driveway location. The new lot line would be to the north of this. When they redo this site they're going to put a retaining wall approximately 14 feet at the highest point that it's dropping down. So once they make this improvement, we wouldn't be able to bring the houses out this way. We have yet to contact any moving companies to see if there's alternatives... The applicant, the easement agreement is part of the permanent access to the north so that might be an alternative .... or we could, in the future this site would... However, we need to bring this up as a discussion item. It is a concern that the applicant has and one that the city has that we need to come to some type of resolution on. Mayor Mancino: And what's your suggestion? Kate Aanenson: It's a significant issue. As you know we're trying to get those moved off the site. If they're out there ahead of us, we could be locked and not get any houses off. Bob Generous: I've had that, I talked to Kwik Trip people and they said if we can put in a date certain to get it out, they could work with that and maybe that gives us impetus to move forward with either demolishing it or finding someone to take it. We've had discussions with various people about taking those sites but nothing's been concluded. Councilman Senn: How long would it take to... Or to find out whether there's an interest or not an interest. Kate Aanenson: Well we have been working that angle since they looked at acquisition of the property. We always knew that when we acquired this that we were going to try to dispose of that. We have been working on that trying to see if there's someone that would acquire this. Todd's been working on it. We've had people look at it. We've presented options to you. There's alternative uses where we can use those for city purposes. All of those have been dismissed. As you know we're going for the block grant money. We're looking at again, seeing if we can relocate those. Can it happen in 6 months? It'd be nice. I think that's very optimistic. Councilman Senn: Has anybody evaluated the use of those structures? Kate Aanenson: Todd can probably speak to that. The re-use of the structures or relocating them? Councilman Senn: The use. Well both. I mean hand in hand. The relocation and re-use. 40 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Todd Gerhardt: Well the newer of the two homes you would have to lose the garage part of the move. It's built into the roof structure itself so that would have to be separated as a part of the move. It is in good shape internally. The older home I do not know if it could survive or not. I would expect so but I've not got a professional opinion on that. Inside the home is good shape. The foundation is it's original foundation so it will probably continue to sit there for a while but it's an old rock and concrete foundation so I do not know if that would survive a move or not. It does need a new roof. I did not see signs of leakage inside but from an outside view, the asphalt shingles have weathered pretty bad where they're starting to fold up. Mayor Mancino: Has Habitat actually seen the buildings? Habitat for Humanity? Todd Gerhardt: No. Kate Aanenson: No, but we've had other people look at that as far as ability to move them. You know we looked at the original Wrase home as the interpretative center. But it's not in the capital improvement plan as putting on the interpretative center on the site. But there's a cost attributed to that. The moving cost and refurbishing so it's our understanding before the council didn't want to look at that. Then the other building we looked at housing. Emergency services near the water tower. Using that building but that... want to go forward with that decision either. As Todd indicated that the newer home could be moved and we're working on that and I think the other one probably will not be able to be moved. It may be cost prohibitive. The moving and refurbishing so. Councilman Senn: Todd, have we contacted any private parties about seeing to moving the house? Todd Gerhardt: No. Councilman Senn: That pretty much answers the economic question of whether it's possible or not, doesn't it? Todd Gerhardt: Well I think we've been trying to schedule a meeting with the Habitat for Humanities people. I think Julie Frick from the Carver County HRA was going to try to set us up with those people. Staff hasn't followed up with her to see if she's been able to contact them. I think the key thing here is to see if they're interested in it. Kate Aanenson: Well the other component is we needed to have a lot to, and we've now completed that. We've got some lots that we think we can move it onto. They would try to keep it in the community. That was one of the goals so we've completed that. Councilman Senn: How long before you know you have your CBDG funds to buy them though. Kate Aanenson: Well they're allocated July 1st. Their hearing will be in March. But then it's still the timeframe of the actual moving. Scheduling that. Councilman Senn: What's the time frame for construction of the retaining wall and basically cutting off the egress? Mayor Mancino: Why don't we wait until the applicant talks to that and then let's come back. 41 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: So you don't know that answer then? Kate Aanenson: No. Councilman Senn: Oh, okay. Mayor Mancino: Would the applicant like to come in front of the city council. Maybe address this great big number 27 and some other issues. Fred Richter: I'm Fred Richter with Steiner Development. In addressing item 27. Just recall to the council and the mayor. We, in purchasing the land, the south 100 feet of the Wrase with the staff and all, we worked out a purchase agreement and then attachments, easement agreements to anticipate all the aspects of how we move forward with the land. We have an agreement that we were satisfied with that the city entered into that we would provide temporary access until we could give you permanent access to the water tower. That was a concern. At no time were the houses an issue. Our position is we need to move forward. Honor our purchase agreements. The purchaser Kwik Trip needs to build in a timely fashion. And that timely fashion is basically rough grading in May and they'll start construction in June, going into a 3 or 4 month construction period. One other thing. Moving the house, and I'm just kind of ad libbing now but I do believe you will have access to TH 41. There might be a little grading or that but you're not totally landlocked. The house will be able to be moved off the property. And again I guess our position, we entered into a contract with the city. We thought through with staff all conditions. Obviously if we were going to be purchase additional land, we wanted to be able to augment it to our property and turn it into a viable purchase agreement in a timely fashion. So this is kind of an added issue that we think is basically the city's issue and really we shouldn't be brought into the fact the timing of the house isn't really our matter. Mayor Mancino: We're just needing some help with you. Fred Richter: And I don't mean to say that bluntly but I'm trying to point out the logistics and I think at the same time. Mayor Mancino: You mean you are not going to help us as a community move and get more affordable housing. Do Habitate for Humanity. Fred Richter: We would have bought that portion of the property if we thought that was something we should do. Right now, and maybe you don't recall. We bought the south 100 feet, which does not have any of the structures on it. Councilman Senn: But don't you have an option on the rest? Fred Richter: We have an option on it. But it's never been, you have to refresh me Bob. This is a right of first refusal and I believe it's on the western portion. Councilman Senn: So essentially we could just leave the structures there and leave them for whoever. Kate Aanenson: What we're saying is it makes it very difficult if you're going to try to save the structures.., grade changes taking them out. 42 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: Making a conscience decision at that point that you're going to demolish them. Kate Aanenson: Basically. I think it's going to be tougher to get them out. Fred Richter: That may be the most cost effective. Kate Aanenson: What I'm saying is it becomes prohibitive to get them off. More difficult. More costly and the change of them taking. Todd Gerhardt: The last alternative is to have the houses, I know an individual that will take the risk in moving the houses for you know giving the home. Mr. Luna will take these and recycle these homes and put them back to use. But I think our first priority was to try to reuse the homes for Habitat for Humanity here in Chanhassen and.., may take these homes and place them where he can find property to put them on. Councilman Senn: Well the problem we have is timing though, correct? Todd Gerhardt: Yep. And we need to. Councilman Senn: If you have somebody who would at least reuse the structures and not waste them, that may be a better thing than backing ourselves in a comer where you can't get out. Mayor Mancino: Well I don't know. I think we have a little bit of time to explore the Habitat for Humanity. Todd Gerhardt: And I'd also ask that Anita and Charles probably go out and take a look at this site. Take the plans out there and see if there is a way to move the home grade wise using our already access out to TH 41. Didn't I hear that we will still have access? Kate Aanenson: Yeah we will but there's an 8 foot drop in grade. Sharp drop in grade. Part of it's a retaining wall and the other part. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Councilman Senn: Well before Fred leaves, just a quick question. Fred, if we happen to pass on your site plan review for the Kwik Trip, what's your timing? Fred Richter: The timing, and I'll look at Mr. Teigen of Kwik Trip. Timing is to basically close immediately after final plat. We have contract obligation to rough grade the site and then mm it over to Kwik Trip with you know frost coming out of the ground, that type of thing. That will probably be during the month of May. Allowing them to then start construction in June. At no time would the grading disrupt the house. It will be close to the house and the final grading over on TH 41 could be later. So there's some flexibility and it's up to you how fast you go with the construction when the retaining walls go. Scott Teigen: Good evening. I'm Scott Teigen, Director of Real Estate Development for Kwik Trip. We do have this on our June start schedule at this time. We're cooperative people and if it's a matter of a few weeks. Now the other thing to remember if you've got, you've probably got some road bands that probably kick in sometime when the frost goes out and until, so you've got that to deal with. And I sympathize with 43 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 you trying to sell houses to be moved because it is very difficult. Very difficult. I mean we've done it in the last 10 years maybe a half a dozen times and I think I got paid for one house. Councilman Senn: Yeah, you usually don't get paid for them. Scott Teigen: Most of the time you give them away, that's right. If you can find somebody. But we'll be cooperative. Like I told Bob out in the hall. If June 1st would be ideal, but if it's June 15th or the first of July, we just need to know and then we can schedule accordingly. We're anxious to be in town and get open and serve a need. Mayor Mancino: I think it would be great if we could do a date certain. Here's when we'll have it figured out. If we don't by then, we'll... Councilman Senn: Well that's what I'm trying to get to, but if you have a June start, what are you looking at? 90? 1207 Before you get to fixture and inventory or what? Scott Teigen: The problem is once you start grading. Kate Aanenson: The grading issue. Scott Teigen: It's before us starting because once you start grading here, the horse is out of the barn. They got to be out of there before we start cutting. Kate Aanenson: Here's the access to TH 41... Fred Richter: That's a minor grade change. We could hold off on that... Councilman Senn: That's what I was going to ask. I mean I'm assuming you could, you've got equipment out there all the time anyway these days and probably through the summer, right? Fred Richter: We could do a Kwik Trip... by rough grading this portion. And this could be the last part... Scott Teigen: Then June 1st or June 15th is okay with us. Fred Richter: Because this grading's going to... Councilman Senn: No, no, but what I'm saying is you're talking about a June start. When are you talking about completing your construction? That's really the date. Scott Teigen: 60 to 75 days. If we start the first of June, we'll be open middle of August. Councilman Senn: Okay. So really back that off from there because you need a couple weeks of August maybe to do that then so I mean basically we've got until about August 1. At the latest. Okay. Fred Richter: Just do that final grading. 44 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: Okay, so effectively if we do this and say that if we don't have the house off of there by August 1st, it won't be going off effectively and then everything just stays as it is and we're assuming there will be demolition. I mean essentially that's what it comes down to. Kate Aanenson: We can see if we can get it off an 8 foot terrain. Right. That works a better date... Mayor Mancino: Okay then, does the applicant have anything else they want to talk to city council about on this? Fred Richter: As far as platting, I think those are the... Mayor Mancino: Any comments because I'm going to move that the City Council approve PUD 92-6 grading preliminary plat approval for Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition creating two lots and right-of- way for Highway 41 subject to the following conditions 1 through 29. 21 being deleted in it's entirety. Condition 24 changes line 2. Project 97-1. The D is deleted. And on the third line to delete Phase III. And in condition 27, that the staff and the applicant work to come up with a date of August 1st that the houses must be moved by. Councilman Senn: Or they remain. Mayor Mancino: Or well, I mean or whatever. They're gone, yeah. They're razed, whatever. Is there a second? Councilwoman Jansen: I'll second it. Mayor Mancino moved, Councilwoman Jansen seconded to approve PUD #92-6 granting preliminary plat approval for Arboretum Business Park 3ra Addition creating two lots and right-of-way for TH 41 (plans prepared by Schoell & Madson, Inc.), subject to the following conditions: Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition will be responsible for a water quality fee of $22,146 and a water quantity fee of $20,841. Additional credit will be given if the applicant installs the trunk storm sewer needed for this project. This will be determined once a plan is submitted. The applicant may decide to use the remaining water quality credit towards this development, but once this credit is gone, future phases will be assessed the remaining SWMP fee owed ($473,620.). 2. The grading plan shall be revised to incorporate the following items: a) Lot 1, Block 1, Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition shall be revised to incorporate proposed grades from the Kwik Trip site plan. b) The location of septic sites or wells on the property. c) Proposed and existing storm sewer. d) Erosion control blankets on all slopes 3:1 or steeper. e) A rock construction entrance. 45 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. MnDOT's review comments shall be incorporated into the final grading and development plan. The developer shall be responsible for extending sanitary sewer service to the city's parcel which lies directly north of Lot 1, Block 1 as a part of the overall site improvements. The city will determine a connection charge based on the construction cost of extending the sewer service to refund to the developer upon connection of this parcel to the system. Sanitary sewer discharge from Lots 1 and 2, Block 1, Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition will be limited to 1,500 gallons per acre and water usage will be no more than 2,000 gallons per acre per parcel. All public utilities to be constructed shall be designed and constructed in accordance with the City's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. Detailed construction plans and specifications for the developer-installed public utilities constructed by the developer will be required in conjunction with final platting for Chanhassen and Chaska staff review and City Council approval. The developer shall be required to enter into a PUD Agreement/Development Contract with the city and provide a financial security in the form of a letter of credit or cash escrow to guarantee site improvements. The storm water ponds and/or temporary detention ponds shall be constructed in the initial grading phase to minimize erosion off-site. Erosion control blankets will be required on all slopes greater than 3:1. Revegetation of the exposed slopes shall occur immediately after grading is completed. All areas disturbed as a result of construction activities shall be immediately restored with seed and disc-mulched or wood fiber blanket or sod after completion of each activity in accordance with the City's Best Management Practice Handbook. The applicant shall provide detailed storm sewer calculations for 1 O-year and 100-year storm events in accordance with the City's Surface Water Management Plan for the City Engineer to review and approve. Individual storm sewer calculations between each catch basin segment will also be required to determine if sufficient catch basins are being utilized. The applicant shall apply for an obtain permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies, i.e. Carver County, Watershed District, Metropolitan Waste Control Commission, Health Department, Minnesota Pollution control agency, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, Army Corps of Engineers and Minnesota Department of Transportation and comply with their conditions of approval. Fire hydrants shall be incorporated per the Fire Marshal's recommendations. The appropriate drainage and utility easements shall be dedicated on the final plat for all utilities and ponding areas lying outside the right-of-way. The easement width shall be a minimum of 20 feet wide depending on the depth of the utility. No berming or landscaping will be allowed within the right-of-way except landscaping along the frontage road in accordance with the Trunk Highway 5 corridor study. 46 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. The lowest floor or opening elevation of all buildings shall be a minimum of 2 feet above the 100 year high water level. The applicant shall report to the City Engineer the location of any drain tiles found during construction and shall relocate or abandon the drain tile as directed by the City Engineer. Final grades adjacent to Trunk Highway 41 will be subject to review and approval of MnDOT for compatibility with the future widening of Trunk Highway 41. Landscaping along Highway 41 shall comply with Buffer Yard Standard C (as per city code). Century Boulevard shall comply with Buffer Yard Standard B. The master landscape plan for the Arboretum Business Park PUD shall be the design guide for all of the specific site landscape developments. Each lot must present a landscape plan for approval with the site plan review process. A 10' clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e. street lamps, trees, shrubs, bushes, NSP, US West, Cable TV and transformer boxes. This is to ensure that fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters. Pursuant to Chanhassen City Ordinance 9-1. Submit street names to Chanhassen Fire Marshal and Chanhassen Building Official for review and approval. The project and individual site users must comply with the development design standards incorporated here in as Exhibit C of the development contract. Full trail fees shall be collected per city ordinance for all lots in the Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition. The developer agrees to waive any and all procedural or substantive objections to the special assessments resulting from Project No. 97-1 improvements including, but not limited to hearing requirements and that the assessments as outlined in the feasibility study for improvements of Project 97-1 (Coulter Boulevard Phase lll) exceeds the benefit to the property platted as Arboretum Business Park. The assessment interest rate will be bond sale rate plus 1 ½%, then rounded up to the nearest ½%. The assessment payback is not known yet but will be a minimum of 5 years. The existing cross access easement over Lot 1, Block 1, Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition, for access to the City's parcel shall be amended to reflect the new alignment proposed on the Kwik Trip site plan. The easement width shall be 40 feet. All driveway access points shall be constructed in accordance with the city's industrial driveway detail plate No. 5207. The existing driveway located through the northerly portion of Lot 1, Block 1 shall remain until the existing homes on the city property have been removed from the site or demolished and the permanent access constructed to the water tower site on Outlot A, Arboretum Business Park 2nd Addition. Staff and the applicant will work to come up with a date of August 1, 1999 as the date the houses must be moved. 47 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 27. A storm sewer system shall be designed and constructed to accommodate stormwater runoff from Lots 1 and 2, Block 1 and the future development of the city's parcel lying north of Lot 1, Block 1. Detailed drainage calculations for pre and post development conditions will be required for review and approval by the city engineer. Verification that the existing storm sewer system, if utilized, can accommodate the additional runoff generated from the development to these sites shall be provided to the city engineer for review and approval. 28. Revise plans to show proposed 8 foot wide bituminous trail sidewalk along the north side of 82nd Street West. The applicant shall be responsible for construction of the trail after utility improvements are installed. All voted in favor and the motion carried. SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A CONVENIENT STORE AND GAS PUMPS; LOT 1, BLOCK 1, ARBORETUM BUSINESS PARK 3R~ ADDITION; LOCATED NORTH OF WEST 82N~ STREET AND EAST OF TH 41, KWIK TRIP, INC., SCOTT TEIGEN. Bob Generous: Thank you Madam Mayor, Council members. This is a 5,737 square foot building. A convenient store with gas pumps in front and a car wash on the back. In reviewing with the Planning Commission, there were only two issues that came out. The architecture of the building. They wanted to have additional elements incorporated into the building facade. The applicant has revised the west elevation to provide some, a recess in the building elevations so that there is some change. And on the front, the south elevation they have provided columns to help differentiate the building entrance and that was one of the recommendations that staff had made before. The use of this site for, as convenient store with gas pumps was approved as part of the design standards for the PUD. The development is consistent with that. Staff, it is a brick building so it will be a high quality. We do have samples of the brick. They're two tone. One's a tan and the other's more reddish. The other issue was the lighting that we were concerned on. I went down to the Bumsville site and the intensity of the lighting wasn't very bad and there wasn't a lot of spillover. My only concern was the glare that you had when looking at the site from off site so we're recommending that they provide a structure around the lighting fixtures to screen it from direct outside view. Or to recess it into the canopy. The applicant has agreed to do one or the other of those. With that we are recommending approval of the site plan subject to the conditions of the staff report. Mayor Mancino: Any questions of staff'? Is the applicant here and would you like to present anything? Scott Teigen: Madam Mayor, members of the Council. Again I'm Scott Teigen, Director of Real Estate for the Kwik Trip stores. This would be kind of fitting tonight but I would like to compliment your engineering staff and your planning staff. They have, I mean they've treated us like real people that we don't get treated all the time and we appreciate it. They're tough but they're fair. And I think the staff report's very explanatory. If there's any questions, I'll be here to answer them. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Any questions at this point? I just want to make sure that signage will be coming in. There's no monument sign or anything? Bob Generous: Well they do have a monument sign that's located... Mayor Mancino: And we're approving that too? 48 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Bob Generous: Well not the size of it. They have to comply with the ordinance. It's 2 feet too tall. Kate Aanenson: But it approximately will look like this. Councilman Senn: How tall is that guy? Bob Generous: Their signage will comply with the design standards. Mayor Mancino: Okay, and the signage will comply with the sign ordinance? The 8 feet in height? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Thank you. Councilman Labatt: This lighting will adhere to the new... ? Kate Aanenson: Pardon me? Bob Generous: Yes, the canopy's only 18 feet high. Mayor Mancino: Councilwoman Jansen, any questions? Councilwoman Jansen: No questions. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Labatt? Mayor Mancino: I'd like to move that the city council approve Site Plan 99-1 for a 5,737 square foot Kwik Trip convenient store and gas station with a drive through car wash on a 1.88 acre site located on Lot 1, Block 1, Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition, plans prepared by Insites, dated 12/18/98 subject to the following conditions. All the conditions 1 through 29. Councilman Senn: Second. Mayor Mancino moved, Councilman Senn seconded that the City Council approve Site Plan #99-1 for a 5,737 square foot Kwik Trip convenience store and gas station with a drive through car wash on a 1.88 acre site located on Lot 1, Block 1, Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition, plans prepared by Insites, dated 12/18/98, subject to the following conditions: 1. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the necessary security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping. 2. The development must comply with the Development Design Standards for Arboretum Business Park. 3. Add one deciduous, overstory tree to landscape plan and plant schedule. Submit revised plan to city prior to issuance of the building permit. 49 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Plant materials used along Highway 41 must be salt tolerant. Replace red and sugar maples and crabapples with other salt tolerant cultivars or species. Submit revised plan to city prior to issuance of the building permit. The developer shall incorporate the following architectural revisions: 1) the entrance be projected out from the building to create additional variation or, alternately, that a vestibule be created at the entrance or brick columns be incorporated at the south end of the roof canopy over the entrance, 2) the car wash equipment room be recessed 12 inches or more from the elevations of the car wash and station store to provide variation on the western elevation. 6. Meet with the Inspections Division plan reviewer as soon as possible after approval to begin the building code plan review process. The applicant needs to reduce the southern gas canopy lighting to meet the ~/i foot candle lighting standard at the south property line. A decorative, shoe box fixture (high pressure sodium vapor lamps) with a square omamental pole shall be used for area lighting. All light fixtures shall be shielded. Lighting shall be shielded from direct off-site view and glare. The wattage in the canopy lighting be reduced to reduce the footcandle of lighting proposed under the canopy. All freestanding signs be limited to one monument sign per street frontage. Signs must be a minimum of 10 feet from the property line and must be located outside drainage and utility easements. The sign shall not exceed eighty (80) square feet in sign display area nor be greater than eight (8) feet in height. The sign treatment is an element of the architecture and thus should reflect the quality of the development. The signs should be consistent in color, size, and material throughout the development. Wall sign shall be permitted per city ordinance for industrial office park site. All signs shall require a separate sign permit. Wall signage is permitted on the south and west building elevations only. Signage is not permitted on the gas canopy. 10. A fire hydrant must be added at the entrance on the northeast comer off of Highway 41. Minnesota Uniform Fire Code Section 903.4.2. 11. The water line running into the building must be increased to a minimum size of 4" due to a sprinkler system which must be installed within the building. Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy # 34-1993 and Policy # 36-1994. Note: Also Building and Sprinkler in accordance with Minnesota State Building Code Special Fire Protection System Section. 12. All grading and utility work within Trunk Highway 41 right-of-way will require a permit from MnDOT. 13. Construction of the drive aisles north of the property and the retaining wall will require a temporary easement from the city. 14. The existing driveway located through the northerly portion of the site must remain until the existing homes on the city's property have been removed from the site or demolished and the permanent access constructed to the water tower on Outlot A, Arboretum Business Park 2nd Addition. 50 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 15. All septic sites, if located on the site, will need to be abandoned in accordance with city codes. Permits must be obtained through the Building Department. 16. Relocate fire hydrant on 82nd Street West to east curb, Minnesota Uniform Fire Code Section 903.4.2, of the proposed driveway entrance. In addition, add a gate valve and coordinate temporary water shut- off through the City of Chaska. 17. The proposed storm sewer system will need to be designed and constructed to accommodate runoff from Lots 1 and 2 and the future development of the city's parcel lying north of the Kwik Trip site. Detailed drainage calculations for pre and post development conditions will be required for review and approval by the City Engineer. Verification that the existing storm sewer system, if utilized, can accommodate the additional runoff generated from the development of these three sites will also need to be supplied to the City Engineer for review and approval. 18. Relocate storm sewer outside of Trunk Highway 41 right-of-way. Add a catch basin manhole in the drive aisle north of the site along the east curb line. 19. The applicant shall install a fence a minimum of 4 feet high along the north property line wherever the retaining wall exceeds 3 feet in height. 20. Install industrial driveway apron per city of Chanhassen Detail Plate 5207 at the driveway access along 82nd Street West. 21. Increase right-in/right-out drive aisle lane widths to 18 feet face to face. Increase intersection radii to 30 feet at all intersection radii and driveway curves to accommodate truck turning traffic. 22. The applicant shall work with the city in revising the joint cross-access easement through the site. The minimum easement width shall be 40 feet wide and the drive aisles 26 feet wide face to face of curb. 23. Add painted medians to separate/delineate car wash from drive through around the east and north side of the building. 24. Revise plans to show proposed 8-foot wide bituminous trail/sidewalk along north side of 82nd Street West. Add pedestrian ramps to all curb returns. Relocate proposed 5-foot wide sidewalk to adjacent back of curb in the southeast comer of the site up to future access to Lot 2. 25. All public utility improvements will require dedicated drainage and utility easements on the final plat. The minimum width shall be 20 feet wide depending on depth of the utility. 26. The applicant shall prepare a cross-access easement to allow Lot 2, Block 1, Arboretum Business Park 3rd Addition to utilize access through the site. 27. The deceleration and acceleration lane proposed along Trunk Highway 41 shall be installed in conjunction with the right-in/right-out by the applicant. 28. Traffic control signage shall be included on the site plan for staff review and approval prior to issuance of a building permit." 51 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 All voted in favor and the motion carried. INFORMATION SERVICES DEPARTMENT: PRESENTATION OF Y2K ISSUES AND REQUEST FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE INFORMATION SERVICES (IS) BUDGET. Councilwoman Jansen: And here you thought you were going to have to give this presentation in front of a room full. Richard Rice: Madam Mayor, City Council. I know that you've sat through a couple of my presentations regarding the year 2000. I did prepare this expecting to have a few more people as far as residents here so some of the first slides are pretty much, may be review for most of you but for the benefit of my crowd here, I'm going to go through these. And... wait for this to reboot. My name again is Richard Rice. I'm the IS Coordinator here for the City. I've been here for approximately, almost two years now. I came in August of '96. Took over the role of Y2K Coordinator because most of the needs at the time were directed more towards computers and.., equipment. Although we all know it's not just a computer related problem. I'd also like to make mention this is the first full council meeting I've sat through, which has been quite enlightening. Councilman Senn: Feel free to come every week. Richard Rice: I hope to give as few reasons as possible to have me come before you but you will be, I will probably have to give future updates as we go along. It will probably be a pretty regular thing to have at least a short portion of some council meetings just for Y2K status updates. Once again I apologize for this delay here. Mayor Mancino: ... Richard Rice: As long as you mention that too. That was an issue that I directed towards the county. Carver County is going to be hosting a county wide meetings for cities and also utilities and other agencies that are involved with that and we're kind of working with the county towards preparing some sort of public address, public statement. They are just forming the meetings now. Their first meeting should be scheduled towards the end of this month or the first part of March. I'm working in conjunction with pretty much all the cities. They've asked the cities to provide their Y2K assessment data. They'll be compiling it and making recommendations to other cities like for instance if I've found some things that other cities haven't looked at or vice versa, they'll be making recommendations to all the agencies as a whole. We have the opportunity, myself and the Mayor attended a conference that was held in Hennepin County. Was sponsored by the county at their public works facility. They had asked, or basically invited all city agencies, government agencies to be present and basically hear the reports from public utilities. What the county was doing. Some of the cities that were involved. Actually the City of Plymouth sponsored it. I'll touch on some of that once I get these slides up. NSP was there. US West was there. And the other utility company that we were concerned about was Minnegasco. And I'll get to those reports in the slides. We were basically waiting to hear their official statement before we made any recommendations to the council for any major purchases of equipment. Their news is good but it doesn't eliminate the need to have contingency plans in the event there isn't power or there isn't gas services. Todd Gerhardt: I'll include Minutes of that meeting in your next administrative section. I received those in the mail today. Somebody took minutes at that meeting. 52 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Richard Rice: Yeah, I was waiting to get a copy of that. Anyone that attended should have actually got a copy of that. Councilman Senn: Well while we're waiting Rick for that to come up. Can we skip past Y2K for a second and deal with a few budget issues and get b done? Basically as I understand b, this is your proposal on how to spend the $200,000.00. You're going essentially $16,000.00 more over primarily related to software needs? Richard Rice: That's correct. Councilman Senn: And the $200,000.00 does include the Y2K program that we passed in the budget? Richard Rice: Aside from salaries, that's the largest portion of it. It represents about $72,000.00. That includes a $25,000.00 contingency fund and that's something I asked to be set aside because we do have areas that we know will have some additional spending. Councilman Senn: So the 16 grand extra you're asking you may or may not need depending on that contingency but right now to be safe you'd like us to allocate a budget amendment of $16,000.00 ? Richard Rice: That's correct. What I wanted to do is leave that $72,000.00 intact for Y2K spending. Then I looked at what services were required, both software and hardware. What you should have in your packet is an outline, it's basically the originally '99 IS budget. I added one extra column there so you could see what items I actually removed from the budget. What I left in and there were actually two new items. Both being software maintenance contracts. The finance director would like, our goal is to get all the IS, all the software maintenance contract underneath the IS budget. I deal with all those vendors as it is anyway. So those two items that were there, Permit Works and the other item I believe was the, it dealt with the well and lift station telemetry systems. That software maintenance also got added. That was currently funded out of the other water and sewer budget. And permits is out of the building department budget. Councilman Senn: In terms of your capital outlay numbers, do you get, where do you take those numbers from? Out of a state contract for purchasing or what? Richard Rice: Regarding which items? Councilman Senn: Just in terms of your capital outlay items. Your equipment. Your equipment items. Richard Rice: The only capital outlay I have in that budget is one printer and that's offofa government buying project through GE Capital. It used to be Ameridata. All other capital equipment and for software/ hardware was basically removed from this budget and that would be subject to a citizens study group that was recommended by the Council. So that's where you see all the items that were removed. There are items there that I do intend, I'm requesting that the citizen study group will look at those items. They are things that I do believe we should consider re-including them in this year's budget. Councilman Senn: Alright, in terms of the, I don't know maybe separating and dealing first with just the issue of the budget amendment just to kind of keep this simple and keep them separated. Todd, the $16,000.00 for this is, you' re sugge sting coming from where ? 53 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Todd Gerhardt: Out of the reserve. Mayor Mancino:... Todd Gerhardt: Well we could take it out of capital or we could take it out of your, the council contingency fund. Either of the two. Capital account or the council's $700,000.00 reserve. Councilwoman Jansen: IfI might maybe speak to that. That was maybe part of my message that wasn't quite clear from earlier today. In our conversation with Pam at the last work session, as we challenged her patience one more time to go back and possibly move dollars from out of the general fund expenses over into the other accounts. I'm recalling that in one of our meetings she had said that she had shifted, I want to say it was like $60,000.00 from IS back into the general fund and it was more of a miscommunication. We weren't saying you know move it into general fund so it bleeped up in general fund and I'm assuming when she comes back to us with the challenge of moving whatever she can out into other funds, that that might be one of the shifts. Todd Gerhardt: Well from what she told me today, $150,000.00 of the IS budget is coming from general fund and $50,000.00 is coming from capital. So ifI hear you correctly, you'd like to move $150,000.00 of IS budget out of general fund and move that into capital? Councilwoman Jansen: And I didn't have a specific number in mind. That was more the question that had gone to her at the work session is what else is there that's a one time purchase and it seemed like it was dollars from within this department that might in fact be one time that could go under capital and that now we're looking for $16,000.00 more, if it can go under the capital as well versus into general fund. If we're trying to not bump that general fund number up. Todd Gerhardt: Well just as long as you understand. I think we need $300,000.00 is what we've got to move and of that $150,000.00 for IS, that is general fund expenditures, most of that is Rick and Jolene's salaries. So we were trying to find one time expenditures but we're just, we're not going to be able to find that. I think we are going to have to move some salaries to solve that issue. So the $150,000.00 could come out of IS and we'd still have to find another $150 someplace else. Just as long as you understand. Rick's $215,000.00 under his amended 1999 budget. Included in there is personal services and then each of the activities in his detailed budget attached show how much of that is personal services. Councilman Senn: So again the overall increase over and above what we approved is the $16,000.00? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Mancino: ... Councilman Senn: That's not what I'm hearing. Todd Gerhardt: Well that is what I'm saying... I would really like to give, to keep the $150,000.00. Mayor Mancino:... Todd Gerhardt: Right, and we're talking about Rick but any personal salaries that we continue to fund through general fund and capital projects, we like to keep capital projects as a one time purchase or even 54 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 just to fund Y2K because hopefully we won't have as many problems in Y2K next year that, some that come up but like we have a budget of $71,000.00 for Y2K. Maybe some of that could be moved over there. Mayor Mancino: To capital improvement? Todd Gerhardt: Right. That can be identified as one time purchase. But remember we do have. Mayor Mancino: I hope we don't do Y2K every year. Councilman Senn: But we really need the, how would I say, we really need Pam's feedback on the overall issue at this point which we haven't got yet. Todd Gerhardt: Right. I've had discussions with her today and she is going to write you a memo saying you know we can move some salaries is the only thing that we can find over there. We'll never find $300,000.00 worth of expenses. Councilwoman Jansen: And it was more you know how much. If there is more, you know how much is it? Ideally, sure we'd like to get it. Mayor Mancino:... Todd Gerhardt: Well, that's what I've got to sit down with Rick and see. Of the $216,000.00, how much of that is capital. A lot of it, you've got about $12,000.00 to $15,000.00. That's the support software packages. I would believe somewhere around $90,000.00 has got to be for personal services. So you know, Rick and I will sit down and try to figure out which of the $216,000.00 is capital expenditures. Remember, of the $200,000.00, $50,000.00 of that was already coming out of capital. So you take out Rick's salary's in there of 100. There might be about $70-50,000.00, somewhere in there of capital. Councilman Senn: Which just sounds like we can't resolve that issue tonight. Todd Gerhardt: No. Councilman Senn: So why don't we just take an action okaying the $216,000.00. Before you spend the money let's get the (a), allocation back from even Pam that we asked for so we can make the determinations on what's going to go into which fund...to essentially fund it. Mayor Mancino:... Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, we've got to pay those. We're late on those so. Councilman Senn: No, that's fine. I'll move approval of the $16,000.00 budget amendment to do that on the basis that Todd and Pam still come back to us with the allocations set for approval basically on the overall budget between general fund and special funds so the council can act on that. Councilwoman Jansen: I'll second. 55 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Resolution #99-09: Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Jansen seconded approval of the $16,000.00 budget amendment on the basis that Todd and Pam come back with the allocations set for approval basically on the overall budget between general fund and special funds so the council can act on that. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Todd Gerhardt: I'll have that on for next council meeting. Richard Rice: I spent this whole day sitting here. Councilman Senn: I'm on a roll so should we just take another item and maybe the time we're done you don't need to do it? Richard Rice: It does take a while to switch. Todd Gerhardt: I saw bits of it. It looked good. Richard Rice: You do have this on the monitors then? Todd Gerhardt: Nann's got to hit the, yep. Mayor Mancino: You know what? This will be your testing because we should do this again... Richard Rice: These slides are ones that I'll be continually updating because I've already been asked to give presentations to other, Southwest Metro, I can't remember what. They had called and asked today too if I'd be willing to sit on a Board and possibly give some presentations so I'm kind of editing these slides as we go. I think I'll dispense of this one. I think I've introduced myself. For the benefit, I think everyone here, is anyone here not familiar what the problem is? Can I skip through that slide?... I actually put these slides together expecting to have again a crowd of people here that may not have any information about what this problem is. I know I've addressed the council with that so they're probably aware of that. Is there any questions from the council to just what we're actually dealing with? How about from any of, then I'm going to zip through some of these slides. Some of the concerns that we had come up just from the top of our head. Obviously near and dear to me are computer networks and all the related office equipment. Software programs. Our financial, especially our GIS. Office automation. Things that we use on our desktop. The major concerns, and ones that will affect, have the largest affect on citizens here is public utilities. Our well lift stations. Those are just again a few of them. And then our facilities systems and the five facilities that we have. Actually four facilities we have. Fire protection, sprinkler systems, heating and air conditioning. These are just some of the major ones that we touched on. And what we're doing here within the city, can you, Nann can you zap to that? I just want to make reference to that real quick. We've adopted the League of Minnesota Cities guidelines. It's a book that, or manual that we worked in conjunction with them, rather I was involved with the initial assessment. They had called a number of cities to participate seeing what we were doing.., utilities and also interfacing with some of the outside utilities such as power and gas. Public safety issues are being addressed by Bob Zydowsky. And our emergency management and dealing with the county and how we prepare like for instance fire service that evening is being handled by Greg Hayes who's now our acting Emergency Services Director. A couple other members here. We have Jerry Mullin who's going to be helping with the testing and the conversion. I ran out of room on these slides. I didn't want to kind of double them up. And I do have a number of finance people who are going to be involved... This is where we're at so far. Our inventory is, I'm saying is 100% complete but I'll make this disclaimer that as we go through there, we're still finding 56 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 little pieces of equipment that I didn't even know existed and getting those in the data base. All the major systems that we've looked at now, they're all done. I've got all the inventory done. The assessments of those systems, we're almost there. We just got the last report from the consulting firm that did our wells and lift stations so those controls have to be assessed to find out which ones will need to be replaced, if any. One note there too is that we do have a lot of equipment in the lift stations and the well systems that may not have Y2K issues but the manufacturer's gone out of business. So we'd have to address those issues anyway. One good thing out of this whole Y2K process is we're actually getting an active inventory of all the equipment we have in the city. Up to this I had a pretty good idea where all the computers and office equipment was but there's quite a bit more equipment that seems like's coming out of the woodwork. Testing has not started yet. Rather, I'm going to skip one. The remediation. I started with doing just the desktop machines. Starting to make the clients that are used here in city hall and the other facilities, sort of doing the updates for the client so I'm just basically getting started with that. Testing won't actually begin until, well actually now with the budget approved, I have scheduled a vendor in the February 15th. It's a city holiday and it works out well for me. That way I can take the city's network down. We can get all our network servers updated. We do some minor testing that day but that's just for the servers themselves. The software that runs on them will have to be tested at a later date. That's actually scheduled for July 4th weekend and I already have one finance person. I have one building inspector who will basically be working that weekend, shutting down the network servers. Setting the clock like 10 minutes before the hour and then we'll test them and every application has to be tested. Contingency plans. We figure we probably have five major plans. I've got one written up so far and that is in the event of a power loss I'd be able to operate city offices out of the fire station, which means moving computers out of our, basically some of our network servers over to the fire station. It may be a bit crowded. We're going to be testing that as well because the emergency planning center will also be there. But there's been a lot of overlap. There's going to be city employees that are actually acting in both capacities. First inventory phase. We started actually last year. Key one actually was the finance software, Fundworks application for doing the utility billing, accounts payable. Basically the whole package was not compliant and that's one that was basically determined where the direction we were going with that. I started the inventory. I did it by basically, I started with buildings first and then individual departments within the building. Doing the inventory. And along with that there's some questions as far as contacting vendors actually falls under assessment but basically I started gathering all the data. We have to have a hard copy of every device. It's status and it has to be on file here just so we can prove our due diligence in the event something does fail. This inventory, I finished in December. Again I make that disclaimer that I've got everything I expected to get but I'm still running into things that I didn't know we even had. I've got three three ring notebooks right now filled with just that data. Storing it in a file maker pro database. I have to convert that to access to be able to send to the county but the county's going to get that database probably by the end of the week. And again just make that comment that there's still ongoing, I'm still finding items that... And then as far as assessment goes, once we have the inventory, we have to assess what risks those items have, and there's four basic categories. Catastrophic, of which I haven't found any within the city yet. Would be those items that would be, that would actually directly endanger public health or life safety and some of those issues might be like 911 dispatching service. You know we are going to be working with the county along those lines but as a city service we basically don't own that. It doesn't mean we can't not deal with it. It's just that it's not a direct city function that we'll deal with. We will be working with the county with that. We have, whoops. I wanted to go back. We have a number of items that would be classified as severe and that would be things like traffic controls. That would not immediately endanger, it wouldn't be an immediate danger but if we left it go, it could very well be. Sustainable are things that we could actually live with or we've got work around or we can live with it until we can actually find the funding or actually get time to replace the item. And then those things that are inconvenient are, I've got some PC's that, they're older machines. They're around. They get used but you know they're older 486's and they don't 57 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 get a lot of use. It's just inconvenient if they weren't there but there's a number of those sorts of things. And then again just basically what we covered today. Identify those things and secure the funding to repair or replace them. I expect to finish this assessment by March 15th and what's kind of the last items are the wells and lift stations. That's going to take some time. I don't have the expertise in that area and that's actually something that I'm leaving to Charles and Jerry in the water department. So the major areas of assessment, computer equipment, network. You can read them there. I've got some detail on that. As far as computer equipment. We've kind of standard in Compaq for all of our desktops. That's something that actually started prior to me coming on board. Some strategy I do agree with because I know Compaq is going to be around for a while. We have a number of boxes in storage right now from companies that have gone out of business. The Compaq PC's. The IBM notebooks and the Toshiba notebooks that we're currently having use, will be compliant with minor changes and that usually means a software update. Something that the vendor provides free of charge. You download it and you install it and you're compliant. The TI notebooks that there are three, and one of which Mark has, they are not compliant and I cannot make them compliant. That item is one of those things that I wanted the citizen study group to look at. It may be something that I guess the question was if, do we make, if I'm getting notebooks, do I get notebooks for all the council members? I wanted them to look at that. And then we have several older PC's and then those are the things that are mostly inconvenient. We're going to retire most of them. They're 486, slower, older machines. Network hardware. Our routers. We have four connecting the buildings. Actually three and then one spare. They are not compliant now. They will need memory and they will a firmer upgrade. That is on the Y2K budget and that is something that I would like to go ahead with fairly quick. Our servers again are along the lines, the same lines as our desktop machines. They're compliant. They just need some patches. We'll get the hardware up to date. I'm planning on doing that on February 15th. And then we do have one, it's the manufacturer's called Sovran. They no longer make those servers. That's one that will be retired and be replaced by another Compaq server that we already have. It was the one that used to the main City Hall server. That will take over the function of being a back-up server and also it will store our GIS database files. Again, touching only the items that I found that are non-compliant that have issues that I need to deal with. There's actually a ton more that I didn't want to try to give you all the details. I wouldn't fit in on here for one. Then moving onto the software that actually resides on the computers that staff uses. We're all running Windows 95. There's some minor issues with that. Same with Office 95 and then various versions of Word and Excel. All of those things I can make compliant with applying patches. That's just going to take time. Art View and Scada. Art View is the actual application that department heads use. Our G1 specialist creates these maps. She makes the data sets available and then the department heads are those folks that are using Art View here in the city have the ability to bring that data in and manipulate it to whatever they need to do for that project. Two versions and then I have three different versions of that. One version can be updated and then the other that we have in place needs to be completely replaced. This Scada software here is actually the telemetry system that monitors the wells and lift stations. That represents about $3,500.00. It needs a new dialing program and it needs, there's about four different functions within that, the major function is a dialing program that actually connects all the systems together and it collects all the data. That's the largest chunk of that that needs to be replaced. Network. We currently have a mixed environment. We have Novell Network 4.1 and Microsoft NT 4.0. Same sort of thing. The vendors have provided patches. That is something that will happen on February 15th when we shut down the network. The Fundworks I've already mentioned. That's being, it's not compliant. I think maybe the council was involved with a decision on which vendor to go to, but we're in the process of replacing it with a package from CNS called Paste and there's two parts to it. Paste and Progress. That will happen, we're down to the last module. The utility billing module will be the last one to be installed and that should happen starting March and we hope to have that finished probably by, we've had some bugs in some of the other packages installed but it's hard to guesstimate but we expect to have that done by June 1st. And then Permit Works. Another one that the 58 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 building department uses that, for basically handling all our building permits. It's got some issues with reporting right now. The manufacturer's making the update available. It should be available by the first quarter of this year. It's not something that's going to cost us. It's part of our software and maintenance agreement. Facility systems, or facilities. All the systems we've tested now for facilities, and fortunate for us we have a lot of older systems. There isn't any real new digital controls. We haven't found anything in any of our facilities that would be affected. Our elevator does have the capability of having a maintenance code but they were never implemented. And the elevator company actually chose not to implement then until after this conversion. Our telephone system. We are operating off an Intertel switch. It's currently at capacity. We can't have any more additional cards without a major update but it is compliant with the exception of the programming software. That software is available now. The only thing I'll need, that the city will need to fund is the installation fees by Cady Communications. And they will be fairly minor. It's 2 hours of labor. I've already scheduled that for the 15th. And that's the software that you would, for instance if you change, maybe move someone from a different office, to assign them another extension, you'd need that different software. Our voicemail system is not compliant. It's hardware is not compliant. The software is not compliant. We have found that we can re-use our, there's cards that attach to phone lines. We can re-use those cards in the new machine. That costs. By the way, it's listed in the Y2K budget as an expense of $14,000.00. And then some of the public utilities and services that we've looked at and inventory obviously, I've mentioned quite a few of them already. Water and sewer, traffic control, and fire department. We have detail in all the. The one we're currently spending a good deal of time with is a water and sewer system. A couple notes here I wanted everyone to understand too. The wells and lift stations. We're talking about the controls themselves are, give us the ability to monitor the pumps and lift stations remotely from public works building. But they can all be operated manually. That's the way we used to do it before we had the system. We just finished the assessment or the inventory by a consultant, that's First Technologies. They're the ones that are responsible for maintenance of this system at this time. We're currently evaluating what, again I mentioned that we have some items that we can't even determine whether we've got a Y2K issue with it because the company no longer exists. So that you could consider, and again we have to assess that. It could be a Y2K issue. Or it may be something we'd have to deal with anyway. The county, we're again working with the county to develop plans. They're interested in knowing our water structure, both for fire fighting. If we had a Haz Mat incident, they want to know that. We'd be able to supply water so we are working with them at all, we will be working with them in February then to develop those plans. And that will take a good deal of time. Our traffic control systems. We evaluated those in the Fall of '98. All of our city owned traffic controls are compliant. All the ones on 78th have no issues. The vendor had one problem with one of it's programming. Actually that's not even true. The traffic controls were the opticom system that's controlled by the police and fire vehicles. The opticom controls were compliant but the software to go in and you could actually generate a report of how many times they were activated. By which vehicle or at what time of the day. That software wasn't compliant and that has been purchased and it's awaiting installation. We do have some county signals that we discovered just recently down on the Y. We have one here that possibly the county, we may have to look into again. We're looking to the county for their own assessment data of those systems but there are still some things that we need to look at because it may be something that we actually, we may need to maintain. There's a couple questions I have with that that I don't have answered yet. And again I keep hitting on this county wide. The county is actually kind of spear heading the contingency plans and that's where we'll be developing a lot of it because of it interacts with what the county is doing. I put this bullet in here because there was some issues with fire vehicles. There was initial reports that some fire vehicles would fail because they had maintenance controls or maintenance chips in their engines and the pumps. We did just recently get a report, I did get all of the inventory back from the manufacturers of our current fire vehicles and we have no issues with ours. And then shortly after that there was another article stating that that was more of a bogus message but in any case we did check the vehicles that we own and there are 59 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 no concerns. We do have our newest pumper has a computer that controls the pump pressure but it has no date codes. And then I did an assessment of all the specialized equipment. Our heart defibrillators. We have some air monitoring equipment. All of those devices are compliant. And of all the office equipment we have here, the only one I found so far of all the assessments I've done is one fax machine that will actually process the date okay but won't display it right. So you'll see a 00. It just doesn't have enough digits. All of our copying machines. Fax machines other than these are compliant. Again I expect if I find other things I'll be updating these slides and you might see these again. In the last contingency planning, the only plans I've developed so far has been the one to operate City Hall and the emergency disaster center out of the fire station. We know we have at least four major plans yet to write and that centers around delivering water, determining what our power situation will be. Those are plans that will be drawn up by Charles Folch. The areas that I don't have the expertise in, I have basically left those to the people in those positions. One other bullet in the bottom here. Depending upon, I left that in there. We do have a Y2K contingency fund. If that bottom bullet is something we end up having to do, the acquisition of another mobile generator, that would be something I'd have to come to the council again for. I've got some slides regarding NSP that I'd like to hold those questions off until then. And we will be involved with quite a few different contracting firms and outside agencies to develop those plans. There is some of the areas, the major areas that we need to develop plans for yet and again all these plans, every one of them will interact with another. External resources. I put this in here because I thought there'd be concerns from residents at this point about power. I've gotten some questions from some regarding the power situation. What can the city do if there's no power. At this point we're really not hurried to make any kind of statement but what we did do is basically I work, or getting information from the utilities that we're directly involved with. NSP was the major concern. If we have power here, a lot of our concerns will already be handled. These are notes that both came from Hennepin County, the meeting that the Mayor and I attended last Thursday and also on their site. What NSP is telling us is they have basically twice the power generators they actually need on any given day. They make a statement that they could lose two plants and no customer would know. They're on the grid along with, it's actually from the Atlantic Coast to the Rocky Mountains, they're on that power grid. They have the ability to take themselves off the grid if there are affects from other, you know outside their capabilities. Although they don't expect.., to do that. They make a statement they'll be fully compliant by June of '99 and they do make the statement, their bottom line is they expect no abnormal power outages basically outside of anything that you would normally have on any given day, such as someone hitting a power pole. They don't expect anything as a result of Y2K. That doesn't mean that we can't not have contingency plans. It's good news but we still have to have plans in place just to show our due diligence. And again that's an area that we will be involving attorneys to draw those plans up. The other power company that we have in Chanhassen is Minnesota Valley Power and they get their power from Cooperative Power out of North Dakota and they make a general statement. They've tested one of their coal fire plants already and found it to be compliant. They still have another plant yet to do that they'll do in their outage. It will be in the spring of this year. But they do make a statement that they expect no power outages as a result of the Y2K. Telephone services. Again, these are notes from Hennepin County and also from the web page. This is something that we do need to get out to residents. They ask us for whatever help that we can get. They expect to be fully compliant by, they make the statement July of '99. But they do expect, this is going to the busiest calling day in their history and they anticipate that they will see, or you will see a delay in the time it takes to get a dial tone. You pick the phone up, it's going to take, they said like up to like 10 seconds to get dial tone and they asked people to be patient about that because you keep picking up and shutting it down, it's going to make, it still takes 10 seconds or whatever the time will be at that time and all that does is tend to clog the system some more. But they do not expect to see any problems as a result of the Y2K and again that's their statement. And last is the gas services. We're currently serviced only by Minnegasco in this area. They're done with their testing. These again are statements from their web page and also from the meeting. The testing's 60 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 completed. They have back-up power at all their pump plants so they can generate or at least pump gas without utility power. All the systems can be operated manually. And their bottom line is they don't expect residential service to be affected. Although they did make one disclaimer that they have not done all their testing yet with their suppliers and they get their gas out of Canada and out of, it's off shore sites in southern, off the south coast. And here again, here in the United States yet. So there's still some things that they're concerned with. My remediation. I expect the first date there is the 15th. Again that's a city holiday. I'm planning on taking the servers down that day. Setting the clocks ahead. Well actually this is taking the servers down. Getting the software for the operating systems compliant. Also the hardware itself. The next 8 is the PC's. I want to finish all the client software. Word, Excel, Office 95 and all the bias on those machines by that date. Routers is one I'd like to bump up. I gave it that date because it's, I believe that falls on another, I think it's the 30th that we have off. There's another holiday in there that I'm trying to work in. A city holiday. Kate Aanenson: Memorial Day? Richard Rice: Memorial Day? That must be it. I'm trying to pick the days that I can actually... Kate Aanenson: Yeah, that's Memorial Day. Richard Rice: Okay, and not affect city employees. The financial software, I made the statement there we're hoping to be June 1st is the last date. And then our water and sewer systems, that one may take a little while longer because of the power issues and because of some of the other issues we'll have to address regarding manufacturers that don't exist again. Let's see, some of this I've already covered. Testing. Obviously I'm having that done by an outside firm and it will be done on the 15th. PC's I'm doing in house myself. I'm taking one of each and what that means is taking the PC down. Actually forcing the system clock to 10 minutes ahead and then running it forward again and making sure that the actual system will function. And we'll do one of every type. At least one of every type by that date. And then again all the major testing of all the operating systems will happen on the 4th of July weekend. I know there's a city, I forgot about that. That we do have a city 4th of July celebration. Mayor Mancino: Well I think it's all outside. Richard Rice: So there may be some issues with generating fliers and things we'll have to deal with. And the last thing is the public statements here. This is something I have not yet, we've started with it. I need to come up with a statement that we can actually release to the public. It will be something that council will have to approve. It will have to go through the attorney to make sure we're not making statements or guarantees that we can't live up to and then it's whatever method we choose to release it to the public and I'm suggesting it will probably be the web page and the newsletter and then through the county's programs. We have, I had one article that I had prepared for the newsletter. It's a fairly generic statement but it's basically a short description of what the problem is. I'm not sure if council should have had it in their packets... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Charles Folch: ... from NSP and Minnesota Valley to a couple of our infrastructures. So the main thing is, for us we're certainly going to go through the process of testing every, what we can. Confirming what we can. But again I think a lot of it is going to focus on contingency plans in case there would be a localized power outage of that type of nature but again from what we're hearing from the power companies and 61 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 such, they don't anticipate but we're still going to prepare those contingency plans so. But again we can run the entire system manually if need be. Audience: ... Charles Folch: Well again that's a process. Audience:... Charles Folch: Absolutely, and that's why we're going to prepare the, we're going to assess those risk factors for those different what if type scenarios and we're going to develop these contingency plans and make that as a part of the report. Again, we're going to work cooperatively with Carver County because Carver County certainly is interested in any time we have a major outage like that, it's more of an emergency. It's a wide spread emergency type nature and certainly we want to make sure our efforts, our plans are coordinated with what the county would like to do also in that situation and other adjacent communities so this is, it's going to be us working together with multi agencies in this effort. Audience:... how much control do we have over that? Charles Folch: Control in terms of? Audience: ... Charles Folch: I'm not sure I follow you. In terms of the. Councilman Senn: I think he's talking about pump stations. Blue Lake treatment. Audience: ... Charles Folch: The same manual type operation functions with our sewer system again as long as we have power to run the pumps and the lift stations that for the sections of our system that run by force. Again all that can be operated manually. It's not, there aren't automated controls. Audience:... Charles Folch: Again, this is a scenario that's very similar to electricity. Very similar to telephone communications. Very similar to natural gas where we're interdependent upon another agency or utility whatever to perform our services to the community and this again, all of our sewage basically flows into the metro council interceptor sewer system and certainly we will be getting statements from them like we have from NSP and all the other utility companies as to what their Y2K read or policy statement is going to be on this. Basically all of, everything we have flows down hill. It's pumped up to a point where it will flow down hill into the interceptor system and certainly we will get a Y2K statement from the Met Council on the Lake Ann Interceptor and the Duck Lake Interceptor which are the two systems we connect into. Mayor Mancino: ... Blue Lake treatment center, it goes... Charles Folch: Well it crosses the river, that's correct. It actually goes through Eden Prairie. Most of the southern, the southern probably two-thirds of our community heads down into the Lake Ann interceptor 62 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 which when it goes through Eden Prairie the same interceptor, then it's given a different name. It's called Red Rock but then it crosses the river just north of Blue Lake. Basically at that location where the Blue Lake treatment plant is east of Shakopee. Mayor Mancino: One thing.., what if Eden Prairie... has power outages... Does that back up all of us? Charles Folch: Again, we'll get a policy Y2K statement from Met Council concerning their contingency plans for any of their pumping facilities along the interceptor system that would give us a read on what that risk factor is going to be. Mayor Mancino: Okay. So you're assuming that... Charles Folch: Pardon me? Mayor Mancino: ... Charles Folch: I would tend to believe that the majority of the interceptor system is flowing by gravity. I can't, I don't want to say that for sure because I'm not familiar with, where the system is as it goes through Eden Prairie but through Chanhassen here it's a complete gravity system. So and I would guess the majority down the line would be the same way. If they did have, I mean an interceptor system is such a critical infrastructure that I, certainly if they do have those, we'll confirm they've got some type of back-up generation. Typically that's something they set up with interceptor systems with back-up power generation at their lift stations so, but we'll confirm all that. Mayor Mancino: Any other questions? Councilman Senn: Frank, as an alternative we could require a filtration device in every house, right? Mayor Mancino: Why don't we move on real quickly to... great help with getting consulting work done free of charge... Chanhassen residents and those who want to get involved. Any other... ? Councilman Senn: When we talked about setting this up in the first place.., be real kind of specific about the charge. And there were two things that we were you know kind of concerned about. One was putting together a group of really knowledgeable people who can analyze essentially what we've done to date. And also look at where we need to go from here and bring back some recommendations to us in determining where we should go as far as our computer needs.., information systems needs are, well all systems really. And you know our network needs and everything going forward because I mean again one of our concerns is you know we've stuck several million into MIS/GIS system and we want to both get a handle on what's there as well as get a handle on where we're going and where we're going to end up and what it's going to take to get there. That's something you know I don't think that we have.., inclination nor talent to deal with and that was kind of the reason getting this group set up. And secondarily was to basically plug in and be a resource as it relates to Y2K issues. So those I think were the two primarily tasks that we wanted this group to do. In terms of what we've got here, the only I guess questions or concerns I had, one is this seems to plug back in the telephone system replacement stuff which we kind of took out and we said we don't want to address for now. Sure, go ahead. Richard Rice: Basically any capital expense that wasn't related to Y2K with the exception of the one printer was removed from that budget and basically is subject to that study group's recommendations. 63 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: Okay, but what we kind of said about the study group is those two things we just talked about is what we'd really like them to concentrate on and deal with rather than, at least in you know for now getting into telephone system replacement issues. Richard Rice: I see. Mayor Mancino: That may be one of the things that they say we shouldn't? Todd Gerhardt: Internet servers. Richard Rice: Some of that does kind of interact. The telephone system, actually what's happen is the computer networks and telephone systems are starting to merge. One of the items on the original line item budget was a wide area network that's based on fiber optic cable as opposed to US West T1 lines. And that would integrate both the voice and data so it involves both, you know carrying voice traffic and data traffic between the two buildings. And it does also integrate at the user's desktop you'd actually have voice mail, you'd actually see your voice mail messages. Who they came from, if it was within the city, and if you had Caller ID you'd see that as well. But you'd also see how many e-mail messages you had and there's some other options that you could actually control your phone features from your laptop. But what's happening is that's all kind of coming together. That is part of the new trend. What we're seeing now too with phone systems is that, even companies that, like for instance Cisco, the company that makes our routers is now making a telephone switch to route all the voice and data through their equipment. They've been traditionally a data company. And all the phone companies are in turn now looking at integrating e-mail and while they also integrating voice mail. They're integrating e-mail services within their switches and they're becoming almost the same. So some it does interrelate. Todd Gerhardt: And TMC has allowed us access to that high fiber. Councilman Senn: That was part of our deal with them in terms of it going in that they get the access to the public buildings, correct? Todd Gerhardt: Yep, and their lines go by them. Councilman Senn: And then other than that, just the only comment would, you know I'd really like to see this group be you know not too large so it's workable. Maybe 5 or people or something like that but also make sure that you know at least hold out initially to see if we can get some, how would I say, some really experienced people that we can tap their expertise versus most of us who are more... Richard Rice: One of the concerns I have with that is, I would very much like to have a board of computer consultants. Some of them may be reluctant to be on a board if they're actually trying to sell services to this city so that could be an issue with some. I may miss some people. Councilman Senn: A lot of people working in MIS, GIS departments for major corporations that live here in town. Richard Rice: That's what I'm hoping to find. 64 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: So I'm hoping that's really the kind of people that we can get into this group and tap their knowledge basically without you know affecting their livelihood so to speak. Mayor Mancino: And also making sure that we don't have a conflict of interest. That somebody is, that sells that material... Councilman Senn: Well I'm just saying, most the major corporations in town aren't in that business so. Richard Rice: I already have some contacts with some of the IS staff so I don't know whether they're interested or not. Mayor Mancino: The Mayor just volunteered. Councilwoman Jansen: Well since Mark isn't here. And isn't this his area? Councilman Senn: Oh sure. Real nice guy. He's not here. Mayor Mancino: I nominate... Councilwoman Jansen: And Roger, can we do that in his absence? Roger Knutson: It's required that he be absent. Mayor Mancino: ... feel comfortable with starting, getting something in... Councilwoman Jansen: The only thing I pondered was where we say that this knowledge and prior experience is desirable. Might we want to make that more of a required and just narrow in the focus in of the applicants that we're getting? Councilman Labatt: There's going to be no consultants.., some of these guys are in this profession for a living. There's going to be no compensation. Councilman Senn: No, no. But I mean most people in the computer business are not you know consultants. I mean we have big, big resources which I think Rick will agree that we can draw from that have nothing to do with people effectively trying to sell services. Who are simply out of corporate departments. Mayor Mancino: We'll... applications. Councilwoman Jansen: Thanks for putting that together. Appreciate it. Mayor Mancino: ...thank you very much. Councilwoman Jansen: Thank you. That was a lot of work you put together for us. Richard Rice: You'll probably see those slides again. 65 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 APPOINTMENT OF TWO CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TO SERVE ON THE SOUTHWEST TRANSPORTATION COALITION. Councilman Senn: Well since you filled my Southwest Transit position, I'll volunteer for this one. Councilwoman Jansen: And I definitely have an interest in this particular project if no one else is chomping at the bit to be on here, I would certainly like to be able to be a part of it and hear some of the planning that's going on. Councilman Labatt: I've got no problem with them. Mayor Mancino: The only thing I would ask, and I ask this of myself to be on Southwest Metro is that once a month we do kind of give reports... Councilman Labatt: I'll make a motion... Councilwoman Jansen and Councilman Senn to the Southwest Transportation Coalition. Mayor Mancino: Second. Councilman Labatt moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to appoint Councilman Senn and Councilwoman Jansen to the Southwest Transportation Coalition. All voted in favor and the motion carried. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Mancino: Let me just say two things. One is, during our presentation is a question for council members. The July 4th... committee is starting to meet and one of the things that they would like to... cook at a cookout in the neighborhood. How does everybody feel about that? Councilman Senn: As long as there's no liability associated with it, I think we could probably do it. Mayor Mancino: ... okay and. Councilman Senn: And there is no liability now you're sure with us? Todd Gerhardt: That's what we pay public officials liability insurance for. Councilman Labatt: So is that like the neighborhood that wins... ? Mayor Mancino: Yes... Councilman Senn: I get to furnish the attire for the council. Mayor Mancino: Okay, we're all saying yes. Can you.., space needs in the District 112 because I know that Minnetonka school district also has space concerns. The Minnewashta Elementary School. Can you.., next council meeting an update? Todd Gerhardt: Sure. 66 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: A. COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT(CDBG) FUNDING OPTIONS, PLANNING DIRECTOR. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. This year we've been allocated $51,320.00. As you know the magic number's $50,000.00. Last year we were under that. We were at $49,000.00 something so we were in the consolidated pool which we did not receive any funding. Because we've been allocated the $51,000.00, unless we pick up a project that's low priority, we probably have a pretty good chance of receiving the money. What I'm proposing is, we have noticed in two weeks a public hearing on this item but just wanted to run past the suggestion that we had and that was taking the money to buy a lot.., one of the houses that we own onto the property. The county thinks this is a very good idea. It does have high priority and again it has to benefit low.., but this would be permanent housing benefiting low and moderate income so that's what our recommendation would be. We did have to get that notice in the paper to meet the requirement so I did have to go with this as a notice. We certainly could change it if, but this would be my recommendation. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Any other questions? Councilman Senn: Nothing for us to do tonight then? Kate Aanenson: No. The public hearing in two weeks. Mayor Mancino: Are there any other options or any other things that councilmembers.., for that money that we could also use it for? Say it now or forever hold your peace. Councilwoman Jansen: Leave that to the pro. Mayor Mancino: Kate, I think this is a great idea. Councilwoman Jansen: Yeah, terrific. Councilman Labatt: When you mentioned.., any ideas about locations? Kate Aanenson: Yes. I'd just as soon not disclose all those so we don't get outbid. We did spend some time going through the county records and finding some of those tougher lots that other people may be looking at so we'll be putting together bids on that. We wouldn't get our funding until July 1st, which ties to that August date that we just talked about but I think maybe we can make an offer.., funding source and the like so we can make sure that we have those two things together so. If you're interested in that, I can talk to you Steve. I'd be happy to share that with you. Mayor Mancino: Well maybe Kwik Trip wants to... Kate Aanenson: That's an option too. That they may be willing to get it off if we can you know, yeah. 67 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 B. DISCUSSION OF HOUSING TAX CREDIT~ TH 5 & 41~ PLANNING DIRECTOR. Kate Aanenson: Mr. Deanovic is here. Been waiting. He had requested support for a housing tax credit project in the past the City has supported. The idiosyncrasy on this is that it's outside the MUSA and hasn't received city approval yet. Bob Generous and I did go look at a similar product that he had done in Eden Prairie. These are owner occupied as opposed to rental and... Obviously it has no standings as far as approval yet but he wanted to get in the process of seeking the funding. Because it is an owner occupied type use, you don't have a lot of in this price range of the town houses. That we've done in the past are different styles than this. We felt comfortable supporting the project but I wanted to make sure the council felt good about it because it hasn't been approved. So he is here to answer questions. Jim Deanovic: I guess I'd answer any questions you have... Mayor Mancino: State your name and address. Jim Deanovic: Jim Deanovic, 9465 Amsbury in Eden Prairie unfortunately but. I think there's a couple of issues with projects like this. I think the density is always an issue. I think the quality of the construction is an issue. I think when Kate went by our project in Eden Prairie I think you'd be hard pressed to tell it from a market project. And I think if you talk to Chris Enger or Dave Lindahl of the City of Eden Prairie they'd probably substantiate that and they're real proud of it. The City of Eden Prairie TIF'd that project... What we like to do is take a piece of land that you can, you're not impacting the neighborhood. We were kind of forced into a project in Plymouth where there was tremendous opposition and we ended up getting that project approved. We dealt with the neighbors who were in opposition on... still on the putting on that project but I think we're in good shape there also. But density, like I say, when you're doing something under 10 units per acre. Places to play. There is the potential to have nice...look at a project like this right now. The land values are going up. Something that the city would endorse the thought of doing a tax credit project. You go and you apply...tax credits and may or may not get them. That's what I'm looking for. Kate Aanenson: I did say these were owner occupied. They're rental which we do not have a lot of in the city. The townhouses we have, this is a different type product so these would be rental. For families which again, we're hitting a different market bench and the other thing too is, you're looking at average income of what, looking at 50% of those incomes at $31,000.00 so you're still talking it could be, easily be professional people still but there's a different range within that. Councilman Senn: But do these qualify under Met Council's guidelines as affordable housing units? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes. They actually go beneath that. Jim Deanovic: Chanhassen right now is, at the highest point of the Chanhassen... as was Eden Prairie last year. Mayor Mancino:... Kate Aanenson: It's on Mr. Savern's piece. Mayor Mancino: ... 68 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: But it's not Mill's site? Mayor Mancino: If it's not Mill's site. Kate Aanenson: No. Mayor Mancino: Part of Mill's site because Mill's site is also zoned medium density housing. Jim Deanovic: I've been dealing with Dennis Griswold at Pulte... I'd probably blend my site with his site. Kate Aanenson: ... adjoining property. He's aware of all those issues. Jim Deanovic: ... want to do something that doesn't... Just to go in for this application is, there is absolutely no guarantee.., even if we get the funds, there's still a tremendous amount of hurdles to go through to, I mean through the city. Through other funding sources that we have, there's a lot of hoops... Councilman Senn: Are you anticipating... ? Jim Deanovic: Well if you don't do... and that's another thing. In the past, last year you had... That was one of the guys who I thought that was excessive... That's what I would propose probably. I don't think it would be funded if you don't have some type of home... Kate Aanenson: The good thing in looking at this property, you know we had guided potential commercial next to this. Close to the school. Access. Transit. So we felt that.., density and the like isn't close to downtown. It had some other things going for it. Again, that's contingent upon all those issues, a site plan. It's not going to come in til the year 2000...may not have sewer and water out there for another, as the road, frontage road... 2001 so he's aware of all that and he's trying to work his way towards that... Councilman Senn: Todd had mentioned that you potentially have another application coming in too. I mean if we start prioritizing, I mean do we have to prioritize applications or doesn't it make any difference? So we're not required to prioritize them one way or another. Kate Aanenson: Villages on the Pond was submitted before and generally just say.., zoning in place if this meets the criteria. No, this was one a few years ago. A senior housing project. Well assisted living. Councilman Senn: I was just curious. Jim Deanovic: ... Purgatory Creek runs right through there so we called it Purgatory Creek Family Housing and everybody.., well in Eden Prairie Purgatory Creek is really a bog so... South east comer. Kate Aanenson: Is there assisted living behind it? Jim Deanovic: Yeah, we developed the assisted living. Councilman Labatt: By the apartments there? Kate Aanenson: Across the street. The PDQ, they're across the street. 69 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Labatt: I mean for a point of reference here, it's going to be located near a convenience store. Kate Aanenson: Future zoning on that. Under the Mill's Fleet Farm, where the access road comes across. There will be a signalized intersection along Highway 5. This map here that I took. Okay. This doesn't show a future land use. This is just for your edification but that road will cross Highway 5. There will be a signalized intersection there. Century Boulevard. Councilman Labatt: Century Boulevard west? Kate Aanenson: Correct. To the west of that, we had guided that up to like 2 ½ acres, 5 acres of support commercial for that entire industrial. So that would provide some support commercial for any housing. Councilman Labatt: Hook up with that north frontage road then? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Councilman Senn: Right, and the new Kwik Stop is basically right up, I mean if you follow basically that road up, take a right, you're right at the Kwik stop. Councilman Labatt: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, but we did provide some other commercial on the other side too for some other convenience which may support this. Councilman Senn: I thought we didn't allow convenience stores there. I thought. Kate Aanenson: That hasn't been guided yet. There's a land use designation. Councilman Senn: Oh you're saying on the north side you mean? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Councilman Senn: Oh, okay. Kate Aanenson: It hasn't been given anything...that's what it's guided for as a possible use. Mayor Mancino: Well..., are you done? Jim Deanovic:... Mayor Mancino: ...Jim, I mean one of them is that it's certainly one of our housing diversity action steps that we'd like to take in our new strategic plan to support a variety of owner occupied and rental housing. My only challenge to the council is that we have often said that we wanted a mixed.., the market rate and some affordable... Kate Aanenson: But there's a price range within that though. Income range. 70 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Jim Deanovic: Yeah, the thing that you're going to find...the one that we did in Plymouth was an apartment complex that was totally... Councilman Senn: You don't have that many years left in your life is the answer, right? Jim Deanovic: Yeah, yeah. That was a challenge but CSM did a similar project right behind Gallyan's on Highway 12 and when you have a mix like that it's hard to justify.., and see this person you're charging this and this person you're charging because they qualify, their income was... At CSM's project they're having a hard time re-renting the market rate at the end of the year after the lease... Councilman Senn: And they're having a heck of a time selling the condo's, right? Jim Deanovic: Are they? Councilman Senn: That's what I heard. Jim Deanovic: Now if you go by that project, that project really does look good. It doesn't, our project in Plymouth looks considerably better. But it's the same principle... Kate Aanenson: I guess yeah, as we looked at too, the 32 units on this. It's not that big, right. When we've had projects come in 80. Jim Deanovic:... not identified as affordable housing... I think if you certainly.., they're not going to differentiate housing styles... Kate Aanenson: There were single and two car garages in that one. So there's a different mix within that product too. That's what I'm saying, you'll have different price ranges even though it's all affordable. Councilman Senn: Really both of the projects he's talking about in Eden Prairie, you should go look at them. They're good projects. Mayor Mancino: Yeah... Councilman Labatt: Where's the one in Plymouth? Jim Deanovic: That's in Parkers Lake. It's about, it's almost... Councilman Senn: What do we need to do here? Kate Aanenson: I was just looking for some direction. Generally I, if it's consistent with the zoning, I would approve it. If it's a project that we've already approved. If it meets kind of the criteria because this is a little bit different, I just want to make sure that you're okay if we give a letter of support to the project. With the understanding that it needs to proceed through the process. Councilman Senn: You're applying for '99 tax credits and you can't build until 2001, is that a problem? Jim Deanovic: We've got two years. 71 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: You've got two years to use them basically? Okay. Kate Aanenson: Betting on the come. Until we get the sewer and water so... Mayor Mancino: Thank you for staying tonight. D. APPROVAL OF MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING CONCERNING NEW HIGHWAY 212. Councilman Senn: That item's no longer on the agenda. That was removed. Mayor Mancino: Oh, you took that off? And why did you take that off? Councilman Senn: Because I didn't include it in my motion to add it to the agenda with the publication notices. And the reason is that (a), I don't think that item should go on any agenda without being in the paper that we're going to be considering something on it. Kind of like the organizational one which we put on the front page of the newspaper. I wasn't real concerned about people knowing about that but I was concerned about people knowing about this. And secondly the memorandum that we've gotten back from them does little, at least.., address any of our issues or concerns that we raised and so I think it needs considerable more work. Mayor Mancino: ... Councilman Senn: Unless I have a wrong version but the version I have is they're almost identically to the original version. Mayor Mancino: Okay... so it's not on the agenda. Okay. Anita Benson: The revised one, I believe some of the issues that were raised, the 494 upgrading. That's not in the revised one. But we have addressed that and informed council members on what MnDOT's program improvements are on that. And this was, I just got the revised one and didn't have an opportunity to discuss it with the coalition prior to putting it in the packet. As far as the design discussions. Those more detail oriented things. We've held the one work session. Unfortunately we didn't have enough time to go through all the issues and there's another one scheduled for February 16th. And that I guess I'm concerned with if you will, I'd ask that you look at the work session schedule if you're going to look at the reorganization at that one also. That maybe I can reschedule with MnDOT and Carver County for a different work session so that we can have an opportunity to have plenty of time to discuss it. Mayor Mancino: Last time we ran out of time. Anita Benson: Correct. And the reasoning behind what the Southwest Quarter is trying to do, I think I covered in the memo, is they wanted to have, I believe all the other communities have endorsed this and they wanted to present it to the Commissioner of Transportation this coming Friday. Obviously they wanted it fully endorsed. Without Chanhassen's endorsement I think they'll still present him with it so that, I'm assuming, because they do want to take advantage of the new administration and their commitment to transportation. 72 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: Well just really everybody should read it because the new one changes none of the recitals that we were concerned about. The premise is you know effectively being recycled... There's absolutely nothing changed on the prioritization and effectively the top priority is still to do segment two, stage four which dumps effectively right onto our city with no other infrastructure answers in place which we asked for answers on before and discussions to discuss and talk about and get answers to before we would endorse that. And so like I say, read through it. I couldn't find closure on any thing that we raised. That doesn't mean that there aren't meetings going on but that's not what we asked for. We asked for basically guarantees in the agreements that we would have review over these things and that these things would happen before any commitment to go forward with any of these priorities or stagings would take place. Anita Benson: IfI may. The Section 1.15. They do address the desire that funding for the construction of all portions of 212 between Lyman Boulevard and Trunk Highway 41 be in place prior to the completion of the construction of 212 to Lyman. So that is in the new memorandum. Councilman Senn: Yeah but we had asked them to basically do all the way through the city at one time. As one phase or one segment. That was what we asked for. And they were supposed to come back and address to us whether they could effectively do that as one segment or not because I mean one of our major concerns was basically taking this and dumping it onto TH 101 and Pioneer where we don't have infrastructure in place to handle it. And so that hasn't changed, right? I mean that's still number one priority as I'm reading this as far as use of the funding goes. Mayor Mancino: Well you know, in all reality, if we think we're going to get a guarantee that they're going to run it all through Chanhassen. They don't even know if they have funding.., or they don't have funding at this point, let alone say.., one side to the other and we're still...talk about the intersections and talk about the local.., how much funding we're going to get from MnDOT... Anita Benson: Correct, and if I remember correctly from the discussions we had previously, and what MnDOT has said, it is possible to have one enormous project but not, it's possible but not probable. And what I remember from previous discussions was that if we could guarantee that the funding was there for the construction of the next stage before the Lyman one occurred, the one up to Lyman occurred, if we could guarantee that the funding was there for that to follow within the next couple of years to get it out to TH 41, that that was something that Chanhassen could live with. And I'd have to go back to the old city council meeting to find that discussion but that's what I remember. Councilman Senn: No, that's right but I mean the key to that again was a resolution of the issues over how it was going to function in the interim with existing infrastructure or were they going to upgrade infrastructure in the areas we're talking about, you know them dumping into and feeding but essentially from a priority standpoint what we gave back to them was until all of those issues are answered and stuff I mean we feel the number one priority for the funds should be used just for additional acquisition of right- of-way throughout the entire system. Not for designing and proceeding with segment of Stage IV which was going to effectively create those potential problems at least that we don't have answers to at this point. I kind of thought they were going to come back to us with at least some of that stuff but I also was assuming we'd probably hear some of that on the 16th you know and this was popping in front of the 16th so... not doing it tonight was really to wait until after that work session on the 16th when we get some answers hopefully. 73 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Anita Benson: Okay, and that is what I had originally intended was to have this memorandum to bring to you on the 16th, along with a MnDOT presentation to address some more of the concerns. However, this is something that the coalition brought up as a desire to present it this Friday to the Commissioner and that's why you're seeing it before you tonight. Mayor Mancino: Well so is it everyone's feeling to hold on it and wait until we have our 16th meeting? Councilman Senn: Yeah. Mayor Mancino: Okay? E. REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION OF RESOLUTION IN SUPPORT OF EASTERN CARVER COUNTY COLLABORATIVE PLANNING PROJECT~ ACTING CITY MANAGER. Todd Gerhardt: Staffwas just asking for clarification on the support for Phase II planning activity for the Eastern Carver County Collaborative Planning Project. Do you want staffto put a cover memo to this as send it down to the school district? Mayor Mancino: Well... Saturday meeting with the legislators and that is on the 22nd I think of February... there may be more clarification.., going forward of not. To bring back to the council. I got the impression.., so we could go ahead and vote on it. My suggestion would be to... Todd Gerhardt: The legislators didn't give a lot of hope to it? Mayor Mancino: Yes and no, but it's centering more around the Arboretum... Councilwoman Jansen: So am I hearing you right? They're not going to the legislature then for the $400,000.00? Mayor Mancino: I would say they're going to rethink that and yes, they may still go... what the next steps would be. Councilwoman Jansen: Okay. Mayor Mancino: Because the legislature... It was a very informal session to say how do we... and the legislature gave them... Councilwoman Jansen: Okay. So then before we did anything on this we'd be having another conversation then? I see. Okay. I know you had said that Councilman Berquist had been attending those meetings as well. Does that mean that another member of the council could in fact be going to those meetings? Mayor Mancino: ... what the next steps are.., how do we want to participate. Todd Gerhardt: You're all invited to the community leaders meeting, right? Because I mean you and Steve have attended the ones I've attended. I just didn't know that. Mayor Mancino: And actually they're... 74 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Todd Gerhardt: Okay. Councilman Senn: You just need to send us notices then so we know when they are. Todd Gerhardt: You're not getting the notices is the point? Okay. Councilwoman Jansen: I don't think I've seen one. Todd Gerhardt: So they're not getting the notices Mayor on that so I'll call Greg and make sure that your mailing addresses so he can send those. Isn't it all the entire council invited to that? Mayor Mancino: Oh anybody is. I mean it's very open. I think that what councils are trying to do is... they're 7:00 to 9:00 on a Friday morning so it's kind of like...that's how it was always explained to me. Todd Gerhardt: I didn't know. Councilwoman Jansen: So if we're all getting notices, then we can touch base as to who's going to be an early bird on a Friday morning. Mayor Mancino: Well exactly, yeah. Todd Gerhardt: I missed the last one. Councilman Senn: Can I ask a quick question? Mayor Mancino: Well some people want to go. You know they're real hot and heavy for the next three and then they've got things coming up so again, we just want to be represented. That's all. Councilman Senn: Todd what, we got this meeting minutes from SRF. February 8th from our meeting back on November 16th. I'm glad to see this such a high priority that it takes three months just to get the minutes back but it's my understanding that they've met with Eden Prairie and stuff but I'm really kind of a little concerned with the meeting minutes because I don't think the meeting minutes really describe where we left it, the charges we left them with and that to come back to us with prior to it going out to, for public review or discussion and stuff. So I don't know, where is the whole thing right now? Todd Gerhardt: The Mayor and I are going to meet with the City of Eden Prairie this next Tuesday, I think it is. The 16th. And they invited us to this meeting to give us I think their perspective on...on TH 101. Sit down and brainstorm you know how the two cities should go about going through the hearing process would be my guess. Where we go from here and didn't get a lot of feedback from the Mayor to really see an agenda of what they want to talk about but that would be my guess. Is that they want to sit down and see how to inform the public about the different options. Next Tuesday? Councilwoman Jansen: Are you in town? Todd Gerhardt: 11:30 to 12:30. Well it was just their city manager and mayor to meet with our mayor and me at a restaurant for lunch to talk about the process. 75 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Mayor Mancino: I don't know but I don't think it's.., remember when I had lunch with.., boundary issues and... Todd Gerhardt: It may not even be about TH 101. I guess I was guessing. Councilman Senn: If there's any TH 101 meetings or whatever, I'd really like to know about them because I'd like to be there for them. Mayor Mancino: I don't know what that is. Councilman Senn: This was in our box. Councilwoman Jansen: This was in our mailboxes. Tonight. Mayor Mancino: But what does it say? What's the concern that you have? Councilman Senn: It basically cites our concerns, okay. But we asked them to go you know actually prepare all the options and come back and show us all the options and we also asked them to respond to some of our questions in relationship to you know what was really providing the need and all that for the... mega highway or the deal that they wanted to do. Then they were also supposed to go meet with the city of Eden Prairie and come and report back to us in terms of what the priorities, you know response or issues and all that stuff was before we would proceed with setting up a public... Quite honestly I mean we've already sent numerous articles out and numerous whatevers out to public meetings and things where... were supposed to have already started months ago and people are the same old question. I mean what's being done to us again. You know. No public meetings. No, you know this issue's going to, we keep saying we're going to get time lines on this issue and we're going to have public meetings and get input and it's going to be proceeding but we keep meeting all the deadlines. Mayor Mancino: Well I don't remember the deadlines but. Councilman Senn: Well, we published them so we ought to look at them. Mayor Mancino: ... I mean I remember leaving the meeting that we had in October... very specifically saying to them, absolutely.., so there were some questions. There were a couple residents saying some questions but in the last... Todd Gerhardt: I think they just recently completed their meeting in Eden Prairie here just the last week in January. Councilwoman Jansen: I just read something about it in the Eden Prairie news and I meant to Xerox it to bring it in. It even quotes Jean Harris saying that well she'll be contacting Mayor Mancino to follow up on what just occurred. I'll make sure I Xerox that article. Councilman Senn: They're pretty accurate in terms of what they're saying they were going to go put together and bring back. So I mean that's all outlined in here. It's just that we need to kind of keep it moving and I kind of assumed they'd be back to us by now. Todd Gerhardt: I remember at the meeting it was kind of that, you know if Eden Prairie... 76 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilman Senn: We'd like to see all possible options. Two lane, three lane, four lane undivided, four lane divided that we could put before the public for input but we'd like to see them first. We also told them we'd like to see it tabled... We asked her, oh I don't know, something over splitting the traffic between Dell Road and TH 101. You know thus necessitating not that you have...to look at that issue but I came back to kind of Eden Prairie meeting and like I say, it's a lot of it's pretty much in here. Councilwoman Jansen: It sounds like they're probably ready for the next meeting with us hopefully from things being said. Just a matter of following up. Todd Gerhardt: I'm sure.., not real excited about that last option. Councilman Senn: Well I know they lobbied very heavily to keep it from going there in the first place. Councilman Labatt: ... maybe it would be to our advantage... Councilwoman Jansen: And you know it's interesting. They don't publish their agendas at all so the only thing that you can actually follow in the Eden Prairie paper on the city council meetings is whatever's in the public hearing notification. So otherwise. Mayor Mancino: Tell us that again. They don't publish their agenda. Councilwoman Jansen: No, and they don't legally have to then? The full agenda. It's just the public hearing piece of whatever's on the agendas that ends up in the legal notices. Councilman Senn: I thought the statutes that we reviewed for local newspaper said that, effectively a clear and concise listing or agenda would be published in terms of any official meeting. And then it also went on in the statutes and again I don't have them in front of me so I could be wrong on some of this. Roger Knutson: They publish for you. You don't have to... Councilman Senn: Well but this was under the requirements for a local newspaper. Not under our requirements. Roger Knutson: No, that's what they do. Councilman Senn: And stuff. Okay, and then they also had a deal in there that said that the local newspaper had to basically report on each item that the council took action on and what the action was and you know if they chose to expand them, certain ones they could expand them but there should be a reporting of each action item. Councilwoman Jansen: The Chaska paper never has an agenda either. Roger Knutson: I don't know any city that doesn't publish... Mayor Mancino: Chaska doesn't. Chaska and Eden Prairie don't. 77 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Councilwoman Jansen: Not the full agenda doesn't appear in the newspaper. They just started trying to pull those. I though that made us look pretty good actually. Yeah. I mean not to try and change anything. Councilman Senn: Even though nobody would appreciate it, right? Councilwoman Jansen: I was actually looking to just see what sort of details they put in there. Todd Gerhardt: They put half of it in this last time. Mayor Mancino: Actually I think... I think we still need to get a formal... Todd Gerhardt: I think Anita's working on that. We'll hear and I'll get you an update on the Alley News on that. Mayor Mancino: Great. Councilwoman Jansen: Well and they mayor and I kind of touched on it briefly but we were talking about on these meetings, if in fact we can make it a 2 member attendance just so there's the two perspective at the meeting so if you're keeping all of us kind of in the loop. You know obviously TH 101 to Mark is pretty significant and these other things just for involvement sake would be good. Councilman Senn: Why would se do that? We didn't have balance when it was over in your neighborhood. Councilman Labatt: I just want to ask Todd a question... Elizabeth alluded to it when she got up and made her speech regarding memos that were in reference to Scott Harr's phone bill .... verify the phone bill to us? Todd Gerhardt: She gave me a memo regarding her discussion with the phone company. You know I haven't sat down with her yet to say we don't need.., another phone.., the additional minutes. We want to also cancel that program.., so I need to sit down with Elizabeth. There's no question that they billed us wrong and everything else but you know we need to clean up that... I'll put the memo in the next... Mayor Mancino: ... Todd Gerhardt: Well everybody's on a different program. You know I'm on one that I think is like 175 minutes a month for $15.00 and somebody else in one for 275 minutes for $25.00. Scott's was the only one I was aware of where we had, I don't know, 1,000 minutes for $230.00. Councilman Senn: How long was it on that plan? Todd Gerhardt: He just started it about, two pay periods so it was like October-November. Councilman Senn: A couple months. Mayor Mancino adjourned the meeting at 12:15 a.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt 78 City Council Meeting - February 8, 1999 Acting City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 79