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PRC 2014 08 26 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 26, 2014 Chairman Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Cole Kelly, Steve Scharfenberg, Elise Ryan, Brent Carron, Jim Boettcher, Rick Echternacht, Luke Thunberg, Jacob Stolar and Tyler Kobilarcsik STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Meghan Gess, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF AGENDA: The agenda was approved as published. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Hoffman: We’ve concluded the Lake Ann beach season as of Sunday so all boat and concession closed up on Sunday and lifeguards were a week and a half or so before that. Great year so Jerry had a wonderful season down there. The addition of those paddle boards, it was a record revenue year as well. Scharfenberg: Also the, I was going to add that the trails, bike trails on 101 south of Lyman, between Lyman and Pioneer were done in the last 2 weeks and they are very nice. They add a lot to that area. I’ve already been biking down there and that’s a wonderful addition so. Hoffman: I saw you one night. Scharfenberg: Did you? Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: Okay. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. Kelly: I see we only have one visitor tonight. Are you going to make a presentation? Visitor: No. Kelly: No visitor presentations. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Carron moved, Echternacht seconded to approve the verbatim and summary Minutes of the July 22, 2014 Park and Recreation Commission meeting as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. APPROVE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL, 2015-2019 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Kelly: Alright we’re right into the CIP that we had spent a lot of time on last week. Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Hoffman: Thank you Chair Kelly, members of the commission. The past 2 months the commission’s had some conversation about the upcoming, not just 2015 but the 5 year CIP. 2015 through 2019. You’ve got a couple of documents to work off of this evening. The G-1 staff report and then also an amended packet of materials highlighted in orange. Project by funding source. The first thing I’d like to do before I turn it over to the commission for discussion is just talk about the changes. So if you refer to page G-1, the change to the total in the top paragraph, your recommendation would be $2,605,000. CIP totaling $2,605,000. Those changes are represented in the Galpin Boulevard trail extension. Those bids were opened by Shorewood and rejected. The bids were high and so this project will be re-bid in the spring but due to those high bids we would like to raise that park fund contribution from $130,000 to a possible $150,000 to cover both construction and then engineering design costs. So the $130,000 for the Galpin Boulevard trail extension in 2015 would be raised to $150,000. Ryan: Shorewood rejected it? Hoffman: Correct. So it’s a City of Shorewood project with a Chanhassen trail as a part of that so it’s a second phase to the project. So we are not the owner of the project. We’re a partner. The City of Shorewood is the owner. We recommended rejection but our estimated cost was in the $125,000 range and our bid for our portion came in at $157,000 so. Other amendment would be in 2016 you would add $60,000 for the two park signs, the monument signs at Bandimere Park and Lake Susan Park. And where you make that note, that would be an asterisk designating that a project recommending not being financed with park dedication dollars. Signs really don’t add any recreation value. Those could be you know just a capital item so a capital item for the City. So those two items add $80,000 to that spread sheet which is the difference between the $5,525,000 and the, or excuse me the $2,525,000 and the $2,605,000. And I’m not going to go through each of these projects individually. You have that before you so I’ll answer any questions and I’ll allow the commission to discuss and then make a recommendation to the City Council. Kelly: Okay. Todd the six, I come up with $610,000 that would be out of the capital improvement program. Does that correct? Hoffman: On this sheet? Kelly: Yeah. Hoffman: Yes. Kelly: So that means our’s would be $1,995,000. Hoffman: Correct and that’s shown on the orange spread sheet. Carron: Just for reference what do we have in the kitty? Hoffman: Right about that. Carron: Okay. Kelly: So the kitty’s come up lately then if it’s. Hoffman: Yeah it’s growing. Kelly: Okay. So it right at two million? 2 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Hoffman: I don’t know the exact number but I’ve been collecting more checks than paying bills lately so. And I think we mentioned it last time, just an overall note. Just for your interest on park dedication fees and development, development is up and there’s much more coming into the pipeline on all phases. Raw land. Available land. Available lots and that is in all areas. Commercial, industrial, and residential so you’ll start noticing in the papers some increased activity announcements around the community so that’s a good thing. Kelly: So Todd another thing is, and we haven’t thrown it out yet for 2014 if I, from our last meeting is $175,000 for lighting somewhere that we still have in the budget for 2014 and we know that won’t happen in 2014. I think we want to have discussions with various athletic groups so we know that $175,000 will not happen in 2014. We haven’t moved it to 2015 yet so it’s still a place holder in 2014 and how do we relay that to the City Council when we push through out budget for 2015 to 2019? Hoffman: Well traditionally it just washes out of the budget and then it would come back in, in the lighting in 2017 so. If you do not spend dollars it’s not that you have to go find those and reallocate those dollar amounts specifically. Kelly: Right but I don’t think we were ready to give up on that project yet so, and if we don’t those dollars would just transfer from this year to next year? Hoffman: Correct. Kelly: Okay. Any other questions? Anything anybody needs to move around or thinks should be moved around? Or did we do such a good job of hashing everything out last month? Scharfenberg: Well I’ll speak to that issue of moving around. You know in talking about, as Brent asked initially where are we in terms of the dollars that we have and spending up kind of to that limit knowing that additional money is coming in. I’m still a little hesitant to put up the amount of money that we’re putting up and you know speaking again to the whole Bandimere issue and having been out there the last couple weeks and looking at that. I’m just not convinced with a hockey rink of putting that initial money up in 2016. I had asked Todd, I think yesterday what the cost of putting in a swing set. Just a swing set with poured and play at Bandimere would be and Todd said that that would be around $80,000 to do just a swing set and the reason that I say just adding a swing set is that that’s the one thing that Bandimere doesn’t have that our big groups of parks, Lake Ann and Lake Susan both have that that particular park doesn’t have. I think it would be a nice addition to that play area. It would add some additional things for kids to do there and I think it would also highlight you know building that shelter. I think that’s just a perfect spot there to put that shelter and have that there. So I would like to add at some point in here in our discussion $80,000 for swings at Bandimere. And I guess I would like to hear you know some other thoughts about the hockey rink. Either moving it back maybe in the budget process and moving up the shelter. I know we’ve got $500,000 for the shelter. I’m still not convinced that that’s necessarily the cost of putting in a shelter there. And plus we would, I know we talked the last time at our last meeting, I believe with the shelter initiative, the $100,000 that that shelter at, that they were proposing to build at Bandimere is in that 2016 so that, if we build our own shelter, that $100,000 number would drop by whatever it is. $30,000 that they’re having there to $60,000 and then we build the one shelter at Bandimere. Kelly: Any other comments? We already have two playgrounds at Bandimere and I don’t see the City Council adding another one for swings for $80,000. And I’m not big on the shelter so you know I’m not going to be moving the rink around for the shelter. 3 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: And can I ask why you’re, can I ask why you’re not big on the shelter? Kelly: Well as you know, you weren’t there but we discussed it when we were at the City Council meeting. They said there won’t be two buildings and the City Council’s going to change so I mean things can turn around but we were told there won’t be two buildings there and they were favoring a hockey shelter, which we came up with last time that we’re probably better off with one of those mobile shelters that we bring in because it’s a lot cheaper and that seemed like a good idea. And until we, I don’t know until we put in lights at some point. I don’t, I’m not, I think lights are more important than a shelter personally. And lights are down the road just before we put in the shelter. Scharfenberg: I’d be fine moving the lights up to 2016 if we wanted to do that and kind of re-configure those numbers a little bit. I’m fine with that. Kelly: Yeah but I think we had that discussion last time where everybody had lights real high and then we decided that we wanted to build out Bandimere and the best way to start building out Bandimere was to start with the hockey rink. Scharfenberg: Well that was, that was yeah. We talked about putting in a hockey rink or doing something like that. I don’t consider putting swings as adding another playground. I put that in as you’re building on an existing playground that’s already there, I think I’m trying to be as I you know philosophically think about this and look at a vision for that park, I want it to kind of match the parks that we already have and do that and I think by doing that by adding a shelter and putting and explaining to the council listen. Listen we’re doing this because we don’t think it makes sense to put one down by the ballfields and you don’t have one here. You don’t have one at that park and move it to where the swing sets are. It kind of fits right in that area. And you think about the cost of maintaining a hockey rink. Every year we see the numbers of what the group spends to maintain those hockey rinks. It’s not just the $460,000 that you’re putting in there for the rink. It’s maintaining that so there’s additional dollars whereas I think we discussed last time, this is the shelter would be viewed as a revenue source. So when we speak to the council and you say listen, we think that this is a good idea. We need a shelter at Bandimere. You wanted to put one down there. We don’t think that that’s a good idea. We’d rather put one here. To me that makes sense and I think the, I think the council views that as okay you, Park and Rec you’ve looked at this. You’ve made some discussions. You’ve talked about this and we didn’t think about it that way and you’re trying to save dollars by you know putting in a revenue source there, I think that that to me personally that makes sense. Kelly: Thank you Steve. I think we also discussed that as a revenue source it will never pay for itself so it’s not a huge revenue source. It’s a minor revenue source and to put that into the equation is very difficult. To say that’s the reason we’re doing it is because it’s a revenue source. And what will it bring in? $5,000 a summer. Maybe $10,000. Maybe $2,000. Scharfenberg: Yeah but you’re again, you’re bringing in some money and you’re not putting out money with respect to, with respect to the hockey rink so I’m not saying it’s the only reason to put a shelter there but when you think about globally as what we have at our big parks, to me that makes sense here. You’re kind of building the parks so that they have kind of similar things and. Thunberg: Specifically to the $80,000 for the swing set, where I would hesitate on putting that in too soon is when I think back to the master plan that we were working on which you know still might be up in flux a little bit but the center of the park where there would have been a shelter and we talked about a splash pad. Those items all together, I believe they led to, it would end up with a new playground all together so because we haven’t really come to a conclusion, as we’re starting to talk piecemeal and build out different pieces, the center of the park if it’s a shelter we have the question on, will the shelter go 4 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 there versus what City Council is currently in the plan. What all is going in the center? I wouldn’t want to put $80,000 in there if in a few years later we still have that as part of the master plan. That seems to be kind of the last piece that’s being discussed since we’ve talked about ballfield lighting and hockey rink. I just wouldn’t want to invest too many dollars in the center there if it’s something that the whole thing could be re-done if we came in and said okay, the whole center is being re-done by a shelter and moving the park here and doing that so that’s where I would hesitate putting the $80,000 in. As far as the hockey rink, when I was looking back at this I did hesitate looking at that number. Going wow that’s a lot of money for a hockey rink but going back to our last month’s meeting and realizing that it’s the hockey rink but it’s also the parking lot, the trails, all the grading. That really finishes out, I think of that $460,000 is more finishing out the space so alright as you come into the park, it’s not just the hockey rink. It’s kind of completing that. Getting the grading done. Setting us up for what we want to do with the rest of the park for the future so that got me back to feeling okay about the $460,000. Kelly: Any other thoughts or comments? Carron: I guess my two cents is I was kind of thinking the same lines as Luke was. Knowing that that park’s going to be coming up for capital improvements to be redone and I think that might be the best time to add swing sets if we want to do that because I agree with you Steve. I think that park does need swing sets. I like swing sets really. Man it’s something for me to do while my kids are playing. I think it does need it but I think that might be the right time to do it when we do that whole thing together so that we can concentrate on that one piece. My thing with hockey rink is it wasn’t first on my list. However it is part of that new section. I think it’s important that since we made that investment that we do put something in the CIP that’s significant to show that we’re moving forward with that acquisition of that half a million dollars for the two houses and the new project. Now granted it’s really only going to be used for less than 3 ½ months out of the year, which is a big dollar bill so I wouldn’t be opposed to moving that around as far as year to year if we don’t want to go right away but keeping it in or something of that nature in the CIP for the next 5 years here. But that was a thought that, you know after last month’s meeting looking at this is, you know it is a big chunk of change and it’s going to be taking up a big portion of our new park there that we’ve acquired. However it’s at best 3 ½ months out of the year it’s going to be used. Ryan: As we continue the development of the Bandimere Park and trying to figure out what we want to do, you know and whether it’s going to be swing sets or a new playground or a hockey rink, maybe something that we do to keep the place holder and the dollar amount in that spot is, instead of calling it the hockey rink we put Bandimere development and know that it’s going to be something used, either a hockey rink or a playground or a shelter but something to do with that park because initially we became, we put a whole plan together for Bandimere and we were told that that wasn’t the right thing to do. Then we came back and tried to piece meal and rank our choices and now we seem to be back to not being certain about it. So instead of locking us in that it has to be a hockey rink, why not put Bandimere development and use that as a place holder and then over the course of the next few months we talk about you know gauge what the interests are. Figure out what the hockey rink usage is. Talk to the teams for the lighting. Maybe the lighting becomes something that becomes a priority again or see where we’re at with the use of our playgrounds so maybe it’s easier not to lock us in with a hockey rink and just use it as a Bandimere place holder. Carron: It would be easier. I’m just worried that it’s not going to be specific enough that we’re just going to keep, if you will kick the can down the road on what project we want to do and what year and it might delay us moving forward. It will delay staff trying to get pricing and plans put together. That’s the big concern I would have with that approach. 5 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Kelly: Yeah the concern I would have is it’s saying we really don’t know what we want to do so we’re just telling you we don’t want, we don’t know what we want to do but we want to spend something and I think it puts Bandimere back instead of forward. As far as the City Council is like well, the Park and Rec’s don’t really know what they want to do so we’re not going to pass anything at this point because we don’t need to spend the money at Bandimere. That would be my worry. Ryan: But I think we took one meeting, two meetings tops to come up with, with this ranking and we’re clearly at odds and we have not decided. There’s still difference of opinions and I. Kelly: Well the other thing the City Council doesn’t have to accept what we give them and if you give them something that says well, we’re going to spend the money somewhere. We don’t know where they could just reject our CIP or they can take any part of it and accept what they want and reject what they don’t want. So you don’t want to give them the opportunity to reject that. Echternacht: Well if they reject it they’ll probably give us, to come back and take a look at it again. Kelly: Right. Echternacht: And then we’ll have a new City Council who maybe will want to go off in a different direction as it is. I don’t see anything wrong with just putting a place marker in there right now with a dollar amount and not be completely clear on how we’re going to use the money. Scharfenberg: So Rick you’re saying what Elise proposed you’re okay with that? Echternacht: Yes I would be okay with that. Scharfenberg: Todd point of clarification with respect to the G-1 sheet. Given the discussion that we had last time about taking that one shelter out, I think that’s in 2016, right for Bandimere? Or is that 2015? Hoffman: Bandimere, if we go to the sheet 2016. Do you see it? Do we have it included in here? Thunberg: On the details. On the detail sheet. On the neighborhood park picnic shelter, 2016 Bandimere. Scharfenberg: Okay so my question is going forward tonight, given kind of where we have, we’ve talked about putting in the shelter you know back in 2019. Do we have to change that number for the park? Or for the council saying you know we would not want to put a shelter in that initiative? Hoffman: Yeah I think that’s, it’s your recommendation to them. That, the neighborhood park picnic shelter initiative is a City Council project so they, they developed it. They initiated it. They approved it and they’re using excess dollars at the end of the year so these are not park fund dollars so you would have to make a recommendation that you want to carve out those $30,000 or $40,000 that they were having proposed for that shelter. Use it somewhere else. They may or may not, you know they may or may not accept that recommendation. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: And then I guess the other thing, you have 9 members. 5 for’s , you know 5 members is a majority so it’s important to remember that as well. Kelly: Other thoughts? Questions? 6 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: So maybe I could just ask with respect to the commission, with respect to let’s just look at 2015 and what we’ve got in the mix for 2015. Is everyone good with 2015? Carron: I am. Ryan: Yes. Echternacht: I am. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Yeah 2015 is something that we agreed on last month like we did on the other years so, are you trying to carve out and vote on each year or are we going to vote on the whole thing at one time? Scharfenberg: No I was just trying to get to see if anybody had any, I’m just curious if anybody had anything with respect to 2015 because I thought every, I think everyone kind of is in agreement that 2015’s okay. I think it’s these other four years that we’re thinking about and what’s, how do we allocate those dollars. I personally Cole, I’m okay with taking that $400,000 for athletic lighting and moving that into 2016 and pulling, I would even prefer taking the shelter, moving that to 2017 and putting the hockey rink back either in 2018 or 2019. Kelly: Yeah the shelter’s already been voted on by the City Council. I don’t think we can move that around. Scharfenberg: No, no, no. I’m not talking about that shelter that they’re going to build. I’m talking about putting in a shelter in Bandimere. Kelly: Okay, and you want to move that up? Scharfenberg: And I would move that up. Kelly: Yeah, you know I’m opposed to that. Scharfenberg: I understand you’re opposed to that but I’m just saying. Kelly: Right, yep. I would leave the hockey rink where it’s at personally. And that’s kind of what we, you know if we move up the lighting, we talked about it. Most of us had lighting as our number 1, 2 and 3. Last meeting we decided either we’re going to build out the park or we’re not. If we do the lighting the rest of the park is going to hold off for a while and I think that was the consensus at the last meeting. And the consensus can change and maybe what we should do is somebody propose a motion and see if it passes 5 to 4. If there’s 5 people who want it, then there’s no reason to have more discussion. And if it goes down, then there’s time for more discussion and some changes. Scharfenberg: Alright, I would propose that Bandimere, for field lighting, just athletic field lighting get moved up to 2016. That a shelter, that the shelter get moved to 2017 and that the hockey rink get moved to 2018 with the $90,000 getting moved back to 2019 for the nature, Chanhassen Nature Preserve. Kelly: Okay, go through that one more time please. 7 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: Sure. I’m proposing that athletic field lighting for $400,000 get moved to 2016. That $500,000 for Bandimere Community Park shelter get moved to 2017. That the hockey rink gets moved back to 2018 and the Nature Preserve, $90,000 is moved back to 2019. And the money would all stay the same. Kelly: There’s a proposal. Mirroring the park and rec money that we have out here for $2,605,000 with a million 995 coming out of the park and rec with the following changes. That we move $400,000 of lighting from 2017 to 2016. We move the Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter of $500,000 from 2019 to 2017. That we move the hockey rink from 2016 to 2018. And that we move the Chanhassen Nature Trail extension of $90,000 from 2018 to 2019. Is there a second? Echternacht: I’ll second that motion. Kelly: And there’s a second. The motion is on with a second. Scharfenberg moved, Echternacht seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve a 2015-2019 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP) totaling $2,605,000 to complete the projects proposed by staff with the following amendments: $400,000 for athletic field lighting be moved from 2017 to 2016; $500,000 for Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter be moved from 2019 to 2017; $460,000 for hockey rink at Bandimere Park be moved from 2016 to 2018; and $90,000 for Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail Extension be moved from 2018 to 2019. The motion failed with a vote of 4 to 5. Kelly: I couldn’t tell. I heard 2 people say yes and I heard about 3 say no so let’s do a hand vote. All those in favor please raise your hand. Four. All those opposed please raise your hand. Five. The motion goes down. Any other motions out there? Ryan: Todd could you clarify the, well two things. The hockey rink include the lights, correct? Hoffman: Correct. Ryan: And then the $400,000 for the lights are for any fields we pick or is that just for Bandimere? Hoffman: It wasn’t designated. Ryan: It wasn’t. It was just athletic lighting. Scharfenberg: Yeah we just said at our last meeting that we didn’t, we were just going to put it in as a place holder for field lighting and not designate any particular field. Kelly: Are there any other motions out there or do we need further discussion? Thunberg: I just have one other clarification on the hockey rink. Maybe this is a question for Todd. If we don’t do anything, would that whole section of the park stay as it is right now? Is there any further work being done with some level of grading or anything or will it stay as is until we moved forward with say that $460,000 and that includes the final grading and that type of work. Hoffman: The initial Bandimere expansion work included acquisition of the two homes and then it does include the demolition of the existing home. The removal of the septic system. The removal of the well and then the grading of that site. Last night the council approved the Encroachment Agreement with 8 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Magellan Pipeline so we have that agreement and now we’re working on the finalization of the th demolition agreement for the house and then the grading for that site. So this fall, by November 15 it will just be a graded site. The front half will be graded. The front half does have, there’s gravel underneath there if you do build any kind of a court so there’s 2 foot of gravel. Sand underneath there. And then the back half will just simply be graded per the rough grading plan which would accommodate the future improvements of the proposed hockey rink. Kelly: Other questions, clarifications? Motions? Ryan: Just a general question, comment. If we did move forward with the hockey rink in 2016, does it then make sense to, and we’re going to have lights, does it then make sense at that same time to be putting lights in those back two soccer fields since we’re already doing, going to be addressing the lighting issue with neighbors with the hockey rinks? Does it then make sense to light those two soccer fields so we can start utilizing those back soccer fields? Were they also lacrosse potential or just soccer maybe? Ruegemer: Currently they are scheduled for soccer only. We’re taking care of our lacrosse needs at the Instant Web field but that potentially could be something to look at in the future when there is a need for that space. Ryan: By doing so that would then cut some of the $400,000 that we have allocated in 2017 and moving it up to 2016 or moving you know the $460,000 back to 2017 but I just think that if we’re going to be dealing with lighting in that area it might make sense to then be lighting soccer fields at the same time. Kelly: Todd from a cost standpoint on lighting, basically we’re going to have to put in main lines for all of Bandimere when we start lighting one area aren’t we? Hoffman: So if you lit the hockey rinks, the power would come from the Highway 101 and it would just come straight and there’d be a transformer there. Kelly: Straight to the hockey rink, okay. Hoffman: And then it’s another project to do additional lighting. Kelly: So there’s no cost savings in building other lights at the same time we do the hockey rink? Hoffman: Not necessarily at that point. Lighting more than one field at a time can result in some cost savings but there’s not going to be that big of benefit from doing hockey lights and then field lights at the same time but the other issue with the neighbors, that’s a completely different issue. One thing for the commission to consider, and just overall, throughout the year I hear from a lot of people and neighbors about you know what’s going on so Bandimere, everybody, a lot of those neighbors understand Bandimere is being improved upon. When we worked at the Riley Ridge neighborhood there was interest in hockey. So we talked about well there’s potential for a future hockey rink at Bandimere. That would be nice. And as a commission and as a community I think something that does benefit people is to give them something they don’t have first. We already have a lot of athletic fields. They’re not lit but they’re there and you know there are some things in these plans that we don’t have, that the community doesn’t currently have access to. And so you know I’m not saying that’s your recommendation to the City Council but from the people that I hear from they would like to see the things that they don’t have currently developed and built into their park system so they have access to those before they have increased access to other types of facilities that they are, that them and their children already have access to. 9 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Kelly: Other questions or clarifications? Otherwise I need a motion. Carron: Oh. I’ll make a motion. The motion is to, well this is the way I’d like to see it I guess. Moving the Chanhassen Nature Preserve from 2018 to 2019. Moving the Bandimere Community Park Picnic Shelter from 2019 to 2018. And also making a recommendation to the City Council that they take the 2016 neighborhood park picnic shelter initiative of Bandimere and moving those funds down to 2018 to coincide with our CIP. Kelly: Okay, could you go over that again. $90,000 from 2018 to 2019 for the Nature Preserve and then we’re moving the picnic shelter of $500,000 from 19 to 18? Carron: Correct. Kelly: Okay. Carron: And then with the recommendation to take the funds from 2016 Bandimere and move it into 2018. Scharfenberg: And the other numbers remaining the same Brent? That we’ve got for 2016 and 2017. Carron: Correct. Correct. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: 2018 and recommend that we move the $30,000 to $40,000 for the park shelter initiative to, was that 2018? Carron: Correct. Thunberg: Can I just get a quick clarifying question on that? Carron: Yeah. Thunberg: So they have $100,000 a year for those picnic shelters? Could we, would we leave the funds the same but then in a detailed list would it just be the recommendation of actually, you can maybe move a different park that was in 2017 or 2018 up and ask them to move Bandimere back so that it would coincide and that way we’d have time to have that conversation? Carron: Right. Thunberg: So it’s not moving the dollars. It’s just actually changing. Carron: I would just keep the dollars all the same. That way. Thunberg: Okay, just re-prioritizing Bandimere. Carron: Re-prioritize Bandimere and even if let’s say they’ve got $50,000 in for 2016 for Bandimere and you know in all sense you could take the $500,000 down to $450,000. I’d just leave the $500,000 the same as a place holder to once we get closer we’ll find what the actual true cost might be. 10 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: And as Todd indicated that money isn’t coming out of our money anyway. That’s already been allocated out of excess funds so us touching that money or moving it doesn’t have anything to do with it so. Carron: Correct. Scharfenberg: I second that motion. Kelly: Wait a minute. Thank you but just a minute. So we have a motion for the Park and Rec Commission using the same CIP dollars, $2,605,000 with $1,995,000 coming out of the Park and Rec CIP with the following changes. That we take the Chanhassen Nature Trail extension from 2018 and move it to 2019 for $90,000. That we take the Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter of $500,000 from 2019 and move it to 2018 and then we make a recommendation to the City Council that they move their picnic shelter initiative for Bandimere to 2018 to correspond with the changes we’re making. Is there a second? Scharfenberg: Wait just before, I think and then to go in with Luke’s recommendation. Is that one of the other parks get moved up. Kelly: We’re just making a recommendation that they move it. We’re not making any dollar recommendation. Scharfenberg: No, no not dollar. Just that another park get moved up to take that place. Kelly: And that’s how they would do it I would think automatically. I kind of assume that. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Or we can add that in however you’d like. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Because they have just $100,000 for each year so if they flip flop. Is there a second? Ryan: Before we get a second on this, does anybody feel the need to light the soccer field? We talked about lighting soccer fields. Getting more usage for soccer. Is there any movement from that $400,000? I don’t know what the number would be to get those two soccer fields lit but moving that up to coincide with the hockey rink. Since it’s all in that same area to get all those, get those lights up in that back part of the park. Kelly: I guess I’d have a tough time moving that much money all together. Ryan: Not the $400,000. Whatever. Kelly: It’s still going to cost us I think, we did have the numbers before on the two soccer fields. Jerry, do you remember what they were? Sorry to put you on the spot. So the $400,000 would be the amount to light two fields at Bandimere that are soccer? Thunberg: From our last meeting the list had lighting for Soccer Field 1 was listed at $305,000 and lighting for Soccer Fields 2 and 3 was $500,000. I believe we just picked $400,000 as kind of a place holder for a portion of ballfields. 11 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Ryan: I take back that recommendation. Kelly: Thank you. Okay. Instead of repeating I’m just going to ask since I said it already. Is there a second? Scharfenberg: I second Commissioner Carron’s motion. Kelly: There is a motion that’s been seconded. Carron moved, Scharfenberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve a 2015-2019 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP) totaling $2,605,000 to complete the projects proposed by staff with the following amendments: Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail Extension of $90,000 be moved from 2018 to 2019; and the Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter of $500,000 be moved from 2019 to 2018 with a recommendation to the City Council that they move their picnic shelter initiative for Bandimere in 2016 to 2018 to correspond with this change. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: KLEINBANK SUMMER CONCERT SERIES EVALUATION. Kelly: Meghan, you’re on deck. Gess: Thank you Commissioner Kelly, members of the commission. Just wanted to go through the summary recap of the 2014 KleinBank Concert Series real quick. There is a full evaluation in document H-1(a) in the packet. To point out two edits to that actually that I kind of caught just this evening. There was a total of 9 total concerts. It says 10 in there because one of them was rescheduled so I actually counted that one twice so. The series was 9 concerts in total. One was a reschedule and we had two child concerts. One in the afternoon. One in the evening. So that was an increase of one concert from last year th and then we averaged about 295 people per show with the largest being the 3 Dillman’s on July 17 that had about 500 people in attendance. So it was great. We had about almost $400 in concession sales to help offset costs and then also obviously KleinBank was our title sponsor bringing us $2,000 which we just about matched for operation costs. Kelly: Questions for Meghan? Scharfenberg: Meghan and or the rest of staff, with respect to performance fees that we pay, does everybody get a fee and charge us a fee or is that kind of depend on the who it is? Gess: It would depend on who it is. So you know we kind of set out with a budget of what we can pay in a season and then divide it out accordingly. We try to have one headliner type, you know large band and then if there’s a few others. So the addition of the one additional concert, we had one that was complimentary or free of charge from MacPhail and that was on the, what was the name of the event? Hoffman: Night on the Town. Gess: Night on the Town, yeah. Hoffman: And one of the lowest prices are. 12 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Gess: Since I didn’t book all of them I don’t know. I don’t off the top of my head what all the costs were but I mean they really varied depending on how big they were. Hoffman: For the local bands, a couple hundred bucks to $300-$400 bucks to pay their cost. Scharfenberg: Any comments with respect to the performers this year regarding our venue site and I guess I’m speaking again to the whole shelter issue that we had proposed last year. I know the weather this year was a little bit better you know in terms of sun and heat compared to maybe the last couple years but any comments, with respect to venue site from the performers? Gess: Not that I had. You know like you said, we were lucky. We had a lot of great weather so I didn’t have anybody say oh I really wish I was under something or had a different setting. Kelly: And Meghan you were around for what, 2 or 3 of those concerts? Gess: I was around for 4. Kelly: 4, okay. Ruegemer: Just to echo Meghan’s comments. I didn’t hear any comments in regards to the performance area being too hot so you know I think we had a pretty good year that way and we kind of got through another year without a shelter so. Gess: Yeah and by 7:00 when they start you know the sun is in a pretty good spot on the other side of the library and even for the few that were pretty hot and sunny, you know when they were setting up, by the time they started it was a non-issue. Hoffman: If you remember June, if we would have had a shelter they would have moved out into the sun. Kelly: Any other questions for Meghan? Carron: Just a, yeah I’ve got a quick question here. Gess: Sure. Carron: What is the capacity of City Center as far as 500 people? I’m just trying to imagine what that looked like out there. Gess: I’m trying to think of how many picnic tables we have in the space. You know people bring blankets and lawn chairs. I mean it spreads kind of onto the pavers inbetween the library and City Hall so it spreads out pretty well. Hoffman: 1,000 would be about max. Ruegemer: Yeah we’ve 1,000 person one last couple years so. Carron: Okay, thanks. Kelly: Thanks for a great job Meghan. We’re glad you’re on the job. Gess: Thanks. 13 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 FALL ADULT SOFTBALL LEAGUE. Kelly: Jerry, adult softball. Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly and the rest of the commission. Just wanted to let everybody know and give them a brief update, the men’s fall league did start last Thursday so we kind of got done with our summer season as of last night with our make up’s so we went 3 extra weeks this year just to make up 3 st out of 5 weeks that were rain out’s here so with that so the fall league did start last Thursday. The 21. They play 6 weeks and if, barring there isn’t any rain out’s we’ll be done kind of the tail end of September for that so the 6 team league is going to be playing double headers out at Lake Ann Park on Thursday nights so we’ll be using Fields 4 and 5 out there for that so. It’s been a great start so far and hopefully we can continue the nice weather and hopefully get through a season without rain out’s. That would be fantastic but that’s really it. Kind of short and simple so if anybody has any questions I’ll entertain them. Boettcher: What time do the games start? Ruegemer: 6:00. 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00. And we’re using Fields 4 and 5 and then the rest of the fields out there are, have been booked for CAA baseball and CAA softball. Boettcher: Okay. Echternacht: How do the 6 teams compare with last year? Ruegemer: We’re down 2 teams from last year. Kelly: Any other questions for Jerry? Jerry, thanks for running the softball program and scheduling it. Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. Ryan: I don’t have a report or presentation but could we decide on a month that we want to get the CAA and Tonka United folks in to get that on the schedule? Kelly: I think that’s a great idea. Jerry, what would be a good time that we could have you, we want you involved in the meeting obviously? Ruegemer: You know probably Novemberish. Kelly: Okay. When you say Novemberish I hope it’s earlier than later. Ruegemer: October potentially. Kelly: Well I just don’t want it to get too close to Thanksgiving with people doing travel plans and all that type of thing. 14 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Ruegemer: Are we thinking that we want to do it on a regular scheduled commission night or have a, kind of a secondary meeting? Kelly: What do you think Elise, secondary meeting work better? Do you want to try and have people come in at 6:30? Ryan: I’d rather do it on the same night. We could go early. Kelly: And we’re usually a little earlier in November aren’t we then the fourth Tuesday? Scharfenberg: No we’re still in November. It’s December that we’re early. Kelly: It’s December that we’re early, okay. Scharfenberg: So I would say if we want to do soccer, let’s do soccer in November and baseball in January. Kelly: Oh I was thinking we’d bring them all in at the same time. Scharfenberg: Well, I think that’s a little. Kelly: Little much? Scharfenberg: Yeah. Kelly: Okay. Scharfenberg: I think having soccer in for one night and then have baseball in on another night would. Kelly: Okay. I like that. October and January. Jerry, do you want to make the invitations to the various groups. Ruegemer: Were we talking October or November? Ryan: November. Scharfenberg: November for soccer. January for baseball. Kelly: And that means we start at 6:30. th Ryan: And then Todd is the committee tour still on the September 10? Hoffman: Yes. Joint group and we’ll send out that. A letter will be coming out shortly. And that those work session meetings we’ll do a round table format so they’re all at the same table as commissioners. Kelly: Okay, perfect. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Kelly: Anything in the Administrative packet you want to point out Todd? 15 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Hoffman: Just great picnic comments. I think those are valuable and we learn from them but overall obviously people are very pleased with what we have here to offer in our community for outdoor facilities and picnic shelters. Kelly: I see there’s a little bit of a push to do online reservations. What are our thoughts on that? Ruegemer: You know it’s, certainly we can offer that with our current system as far as viewing. I’m not personally in favor of having people book space online but that’s certainly something that we could make available for viewing only. Kelly: And why would you be opposed to them registering online? Ruegemer: Well there’s a couple different ways. I think one way I can, if they’re non-residents I can talk them into a non-resident fee at times or if space isn’t available I can potentially sell them another location and continue the revenue stream. Kelly: You’ve got me sold. Carron: He was waiting for that question. Ruegemer: I’ve thought about it quite a bit. You know it’s just, I personally like the personal interaction. Yeah it takes time to talk to people on the phone and it does get busy in our office certainly with that but I think people like the personal touch in an automated world and I think that’s why you get some of the comments that about the process. You know we follow up. We call people for keys. We see if people need anything. We try to be responsive to questions and to people’s desires so I’m old school I know but I personally still like the interaction with people. Kelly: Well you do get a lot of nice comments too. Hoffman: What was the recent picnic you just had at Lake Ann? Ruegemer: About 400-450 people so that was the last Tuesday. A week ago. So we’ve, yeah we’re starting to be kind of the known for our Klingelhutz Pavilion. Some larger companies have booked both sites. The Lakeside and the Klingelhutz Pavilion so the park was filled to capacity last week with probably 400 plus cars. I mean it seemed like every lot was booked within Lake Ann so those are the type of things that we do run into. Some obstacles at times with parking, especially with the, a busy beach day and a party. Although that one wrapped up earlier in the afternoon, mid-afternoon but there is potential for games and that sort of thing. We start to kind of double up and we are at capacity at certain points. Hoffman: For commissioners, I think really important is that’s bringing a lot of people to town and when those people come to town that has a long term residual effect on, they come back here to buy homes. They come back here to do business. They’re doing business when they’re here and so we get some revenue but in that particular case, you know we get a few hundred bucks. That’s not even paying the garbage bill that particular day but there are a lot of other you know benefits to having all of those people come to our town and participate in our downtown business community and just, so just overall program of having lots of people in our parks is a good thing for our economic development and our overall health and viability as a community. Kelly: Great, thank you very much. Anybody have anything else or are we going to put it to the question? 16 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Carron moved, Echternacht seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned at 8:25 p.m. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 17 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 26, 2014 Chairman Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Cole Kelly, Steve Scharfenberg, Elise Ryan, Brent Carron, Jim Boettcher, Rick Echternacht, Luke Thunberg, Jacob Stolar and Tyler Kobilarcsik STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Meghan Gess, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF AGENDA: The agenda was approved as published. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Hoffman: We’ve concluded the Lake Ann beach season as of Sunday so all boat and concession closed up on Sunday and lifeguards were a week and a half or so before that. Great year so Jerry had a wonderful season down there. The addition of those paddle boards, it was a record revenue year as well. Scharfenberg: Also the, I was going to add that the trails, bike trails on 101 south of Lyman, between Lyman and Pioneer were done in the last 2 weeks and they are very nice. They add a lot to that area. I’ve already been biking down there and that’s a wonderful addition so. Hoffman: I saw you one night. Scharfenberg: Did you? Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: Okay. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. Kelly: I see we only have one visitor tonight. Are you going to make a presentation? Visitor: No. Kelly: No visitor presentations. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Carron moved, Echternacht seconded to approve the verbatim and summary Minutes of the July 22, 2014 Park and Recreation Commission meeting as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. APPROVE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL, 2015-2019 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Kelly: Alright we’re right into the CIP that we had spent a lot of time on last week. Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Hoffman: Thank you Chair Kelly, members of the commission. The past 2 months the commission’s had some conversation about the upcoming, not just 2015 but the 5 year CIP. 2015 through 2019. You’ve got a couple of documents to work off of this evening. The G-1 staff report and then also an amended packet of materials highlighted in orange. Project by funding source. The first thing I’d like to do before I turn it over to the commission for discussion is just talk about the changes. So if you refer to page G-1, the change to the total in the top paragraph, your recommendation would be $2,605,000. CIP totaling $2,605,000. Those changes are represented in the Galpin Boulevard trail extension. Those bids were opened by Shorewood and rejected. The bids were high and so this project will be re-bid in the spring but due to those high bids we would like to raise that park fund contribution from $130,000 to a possible $150,000 to cover both construction and then engineering design costs. So the $130,000 for the Galpin Boulevard trail extension in 2015 would be raised to $150,000. Ryan: Shorewood rejected it? Hoffman: Correct. So it’s a City of Shorewood project with a Chanhassen trail as a part of that so it’s a second phase to the project. So we are not the owner of the project. We’re a partner. The City of Shorewood is the owner. We recommended rejection but our estimated cost was in the $125,000 range and our bid for our portion came in at $157,000 so. Other amendment would be in 2016 you would add $60,000 for the two park signs, the monument signs at Bandimere Park and Lake Susan Park. And where you make that note, that would be an asterisk designating that a project recommending not being financed with park dedication dollars. Signs really don’t add any recreation value. Those could be you know just a capital item so a capital item for the City. So those two items add $80,000 to that spread sheet which is the difference between the $5,525,000 and the, or excuse me the $2,525,000 and the $2,605,000. And I’m not going to go through each of these projects individually. You have that before you so I’ll answer any questions and I’ll allow the commission to discuss and then make a recommendation to the City Council. Kelly: Okay. Todd the six, I come up with $610,000 that would be out of the capital improvement program. Does that correct? Hoffman: On this sheet? Kelly: Yeah. Hoffman: Yes. Kelly: So that means our’s would be $1,995,000. Hoffman: Correct and that’s shown on the orange spread sheet. Carron: Just for reference what do we have in the kitty? Hoffman: Right about that. Carron: Okay. Kelly: So the kitty’s come up lately then if it’s. Hoffman: Yeah it’s growing. Kelly: Okay. So it right at two million? 2 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Hoffman: I don’t know the exact number but I’ve been collecting more checks than paying bills lately so. And I think we mentioned it last time, just an overall note. Just for your interest on park dedication fees and development, development is up and there’s much more coming into the pipeline on all phases. Raw land. Available land. Available lots and that is in all areas. Commercial, industrial, and residential so you’ll start noticing in the papers some increased activity announcements around the community so that’s a good thing. Kelly: So Todd another thing is, and we haven’t thrown it out yet for 2014 if I, from our last meeting is $175,000 for lighting somewhere that we still have in the budget for 2014 and we know that won’t happen in 2014. I think we want to have discussions with various athletic groups so we know that $175,000 will not happen in 2014. We haven’t moved it to 2015 yet so it’s still a place holder in 2014 and how do we relay that to the City Council when we push through out budget for 2015 to 2019? Hoffman: Well traditionally it just washes out of the budget and then it would come back in, in the lighting in 2017 so. If you do not spend dollars it’s not that you have to go find those and reallocate those dollar amounts specifically. Kelly: Right but I don’t think we were ready to give up on that project yet so, and if we don’t those dollars would just transfer from this year to next year? Hoffman: Correct. Kelly: Okay. Any other questions? Anything anybody needs to move around or thinks should be moved around? Or did we do such a good job of hashing everything out last month? Scharfenberg: Well I’ll speak to that issue of moving around. You know in talking about, as Brent asked initially where are we in terms of the dollars that we have and spending up kind of to that limit knowing that additional money is coming in. I’m still a little hesitant to put up the amount of money that we’re putting up and you know speaking again to the whole Bandimere issue and having been out there the last couple weeks and looking at that. I’m just not convinced with a hockey rink of putting that initial money up in 2016. I had asked Todd, I think yesterday what the cost of putting in a swing set. Just a swing set with poured and play at Bandimere would be and Todd said that that would be around $80,000 to do just a swing set and the reason that I say just adding a swing set is that that’s the one thing that Bandimere doesn’t have that our big groups of parks, Lake Ann and Lake Susan both have that that particular park doesn’t have. I think it would be a nice addition to that play area. It would add some additional things for kids to do there and I think it would also highlight you know building that shelter. I think that’s just a perfect spot there to put that shelter and have that there. So I would like to add at some point in here in our discussion $80,000 for swings at Bandimere. And I guess I would like to hear you know some other thoughts about the hockey rink. Either moving it back maybe in the budget process and moving up the shelter. I know we’ve got $500,000 for the shelter. I’m still not convinced that that’s necessarily the cost of putting in a shelter there. And plus we would, I know we talked the last time at our last meeting, I believe with the shelter initiative, the $100,000 that that shelter at, that they were proposing to build at Bandimere is in that 2016 so that, if we build our own shelter, that $100,000 number would drop by whatever it is. $30,000 that they’re having there to $60,000 and then we build the one shelter at Bandimere. Kelly: Any other comments? We already have two playgrounds at Bandimere and I don’t see the City Council adding another one for swings for $80,000. And I’m not big on the shelter so you know I’m not going to be moving the rink around for the shelter. 3 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: And can I ask why you’re, can I ask why you’re not big on the shelter? Kelly: Well as you know, you weren’t there but we discussed it when we were at the City Council meeting. They said there won’t be two buildings and the City Council’s going to change so I mean things can turn around but we were told there won’t be two buildings there and they were favoring a hockey shelter, which we came up with last time that we’re probably better off with one of those mobile shelters that we bring in because it’s a lot cheaper and that seemed like a good idea. And until we, I don’t know until we put in lights at some point. I don’t, I’m not, I think lights are more important than a shelter personally. And lights are down the road just before we put in the shelter. Scharfenberg: I’d be fine moving the lights up to 2016 if we wanted to do that and kind of re-configure those numbers a little bit. I’m fine with that. Kelly: Yeah but I think we had that discussion last time where everybody had lights real high and then we decided that we wanted to build out Bandimere and the best way to start building out Bandimere was to start with the hockey rink. Scharfenberg: Well that was, that was yeah. We talked about putting in a hockey rink or doing something like that. I don’t consider putting swings as adding another playground. I put that in as you’re building on an existing playground that’s already there, I think I’m trying to be as I you know philosophically think about this and look at a vision for that park, I want it to kind of match the parks that we already have and do that and I think by doing that by adding a shelter and putting and explaining to the council listen. Listen we’re doing this because we don’t think it makes sense to put one down by the ballfields and you don’t have one here. You don’t have one at that park and move it to where the swing sets are. It kind of fits right in that area. And you think about the cost of maintaining a hockey rink. Every year we see the numbers of what the group spends to maintain those hockey rinks. It’s not just the $460,000 that you’re putting in there for the rink. It’s maintaining that so there’s additional dollars whereas I think we discussed last time, this is the shelter would be viewed as a revenue source. So when we speak to the council and you say listen, we think that this is a good idea. We need a shelter at Bandimere. You wanted to put one down there. We don’t think that that’s a good idea. We’d rather put one here. To me that makes sense and I think the, I think the council views that as okay you, Park and Rec you’ve looked at this. You’ve made some discussions. You’ve talked about this and we didn’t think about it that way and you’re trying to save dollars by you know putting in a revenue source there, I think that that to me personally that makes sense. Kelly: Thank you Steve. I think we also discussed that as a revenue source it will never pay for itself so it’s not a huge revenue source. It’s a minor revenue source and to put that into the equation is very difficult. To say that’s the reason we’re doing it is because it’s a revenue source. And what will it bring in? $5,000 a summer. Maybe $10,000. Maybe $2,000. Scharfenberg: Yeah but you’re again, you’re bringing in some money and you’re not putting out money with respect to, with respect to the hockey rink so I’m not saying it’s the only reason to put a shelter there but when you think about globally as what we have at our big parks, to me that makes sense here. You’re kind of building the parks so that they have kind of similar things and. Thunberg: Specifically to the $80,000 for the swing set, where I would hesitate on putting that in too soon is when I think back to the master plan that we were working on which you know still might be up in flux a little bit but the center of the park where there would have been a shelter and we talked about a splash pad. Those items all together, I believe they led to, it would end up with a new playground all together so because we haven’t really come to a conclusion, as we’re starting to talk piecemeal and build out different pieces, the center of the park if it’s a shelter we have the question on, will the shelter go 4 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 there versus what City Council is currently in the plan. What all is going in the center? I wouldn’t want to put $80,000 in there if in a few years later we still have that as part of the master plan. That seems to be kind of the last piece that’s being discussed since we’ve talked about ballfield lighting and hockey rink. I just wouldn’t want to invest too many dollars in the center there if it’s something that the whole thing could be re-done if we came in and said okay, the whole center is being re-done by a shelter and moving the park here and doing that so that’s where I would hesitate putting the $80,000 in. As far as the hockey rink, when I was looking back at this I did hesitate looking at that number. Going wow that’s a lot of money for a hockey rink but going back to our last month’s meeting and realizing that it’s the hockey rink but it’s also the parking lot, the trails, all the grading. That really finishes out, I think of that $460,000 is more finishing out the space so alright as you come into the park, it’s not just the hockey rink. It’s kind of completing that. Getting the grading done. Setting us up for what we want to do with the rest of the park for the future so that got me back to feeling okay about the $460,000. Kelly: Any other thoughts or comments? Carron: I guess my two cents is I was kind of thinking the same lines as Luke was. Knowing that that park’s going to be coming up for capital improvements to be redone and I think that might be the best time to add swing sets if we want to do that because I agree with you Steve. I think that park does need swing sets. I like swing sets really. Man it’s something for me to do while my kids are playing. I think it does need it but I think that might be the right time to do it when we do that whole thing together so that we can concentrate on that one piece. My thing with hockey rink is it wasn’t first on my list. However it is part of that new section. I think it’s important that since we made that investment that we do put something in the CIP that’s significant to show that we’re moving forward with that acquisition of that half a million dollars for the two houses and the new project. Now granted it’s really only going to be used for less than 3 ½ months out of the year, which is a big dollar bill so I wouldn’t be opposed to moving that around as far as year to year if we don’t want to go right away but keeping it in or something of that nature in the CIP for the next 5 years here. But that was a thought that, you know after last month’s meeting looking at this is, you know it is a big chunk of change and it’s going to be taking up a big portion of our new park there that we’ve acquired. However it’s at best 3 ½ months out of the year it’s going to be used. Ryan: As we continue the development of the Bandimere Park and trying to figure out what we want to do, you know and whether it’s going to be swing sets or a new playground or a hockey rink, maybe something that we do to keep the place holder and the dollar amount in that spot is, instead of calling it the hockey rink we put Bandimere development and know that it’s going to be something used, either a hockey rink or a playground or a shelter but something to do with that park because initially we became, we put a whole plan together for Bandimere and we were told that that wasn’t the right thing to do. Then we came back and tried to piece meal and rank our choices and now we seem to be back to not being certain about it. So instead of locking us in that it has to be a hockey rink, why not put Bandimere development and use that as a place holder and then over the course of the next few months we talk about you know gauge what the interests are. Figure out what the hockey rink usage is. Talk to the teams for the lighting. Maybe the lighting becomes something that becomes a priority again or see where we’re at with the use of our playgrounds so maybe it’s easier not to lock us in with a hockey rink and just use it as a Bandimere place holder. Carron: It would be easier. I’m just worried that it’s not going to be specific enough that we’re just going to keep, if you will kick the can down the road on what project we want to do and what year and it might delay us moving forward. It will delay staff trying to get pricing and plans put together. That’s the big concern I would have with that approach. 5 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Kelly: Yeah the concern I would have is it’s saying we really don’t know what we want to do so we’re just telling you we don’t want, we don’t know what we want to do but we want to spend something and I think it puts Bandimere back instead of forward. As far as the City Council is like well, the Park and Rec’s don’t really know what they want to do so we’re not going to pass anything at this point because we don’t need to spend the money at Bandimere. That would be my worry. Ryan: But I think we took one meeting, two meetings tops to come up with, with this ranking and we’re clearly at odds and we have not decided. There’s still difference of opinions and I. Kelly: Well the other thing the City Council doesn’t have to accept what we give them and if you give them something that says well, we’re going to spend the money somewhere. We don’t know where they could just reject our CIP or they can take any part of it and accept what they want and reject what they don’t want. So you don’t want to give them the opportunity to reject that. Echternacht: Well if they reject it they’ll probably give us, to come back and take a look at it again. Kelly: Right. Echternacht: And then we’ll have a new City Council who maybe will want to go off in a different direction as it is. I don’t see anything wrong with just putting a place marker in there right now with a dollar amount and not be completely clear on how we’re going to use the money. Scharfenberg: So Rick you’re saying what Elise proposed you’re okay with that? Echternacht: Yes I would be okay with that. Scharfenberg: Todd point of clarification with respect to the G-1 sheet. Given the discussion that we had last time about taking that one shelter out, I think that’s in 2016, right for Bandimere? Or is that 2015? Hoffman: Bandimere, if we go to the sheet 2016. Do you see it? Do we have it included in here? Thunberg: On the details. On the detail sheet. On the neighborhood park picnic shelter, 2016 Bandimere. Scharfenberg: Okay so my question is going forward tonight, given kind of where we have, we’ve talked about putting in the shelter you know back in 2019. Do we have to change that number for the park? Or for the council saying you know we would not want to put a shelter in that initiative? Hoffman: Yeah I think that’s, it’s your recommendation to them. That, the neighborhood park picnic shelter initiative is a City Council project so they, they developed it. They initiated it. They approved it and they’re using excess dollars at the end of the year so these are not park fund dollars so you would have to make a recommendation that you want to carve out those $30,000 or $40,000 that they were having proposed for that shelter. Use it somewhere else. They may or may not, you know they may or may not accept that recommendation. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: And then I guess the other thing, you have 9 members. 5 for’s , you know 5 members is a majority so it’s important to remember that as well. Kelly: Other thoughts? Questions? 6 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: So maybe I could just ask with respect to the commission, with respect to let’s just look at 2015 and what we’ve got in the mix for 2015. Is everyone good with 2015? Carron: I am. Ryan: Yes. Echternacht: I am. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Yeah 2015 is something that we agreed on last month like we did on the other years so, are you trying to carve out and vote on each year or are we going to vote on the whole thing at one time? Scharfenberg: No I was just trying to get to see if anybody had any, I’m just curious if anybody had anything with respect to 2015 because I thought every, I think everyone kind of is in agreement that 2015’s okay. I think it’s these other four years that we’re thinking about and what’s, how do we allocate those dollars. I personally Cole, I’m okay with taking that $400,000 for athletic lighting and moving that into 2016 and pulling, I would even prefer taking the shelter, moving that to 2017 and putting the hockey rink back either in 2018 or 2019. Kelly: Yeah the shelter’s already been voted on by the City Council. I don’t think we can move that around. Scharfenberg: No, no, no. I’m not talking about that shelter that they’re going to build. I’m talking about putting in a shelter in Bandimere. Kelly: Okay, and you want to move that up? Scharfenberg: And I would move that up. Kelly: Yeah, you know I’m opposed to that. Scharfenberg: I understand you’re opposed to that but I’m just saying. Kelly: Right, yep. I would leave the hockey rink where it’s at personally. And that’s kind of what we, you know if we move up the lighting, we talked about it. Most of us had lighting as our number 1, 2 and 3. Last meeting we decided either we’re going to build out the park or we’re not. If we do the lighting the rest of the park is going to hold off for a while and I think that was the consensus at the last meeting. And the consensus can change and maybe what we should do is somebody propose a motion and see if it passes 5 to 4. If there’s 5 people who want it, then there’s no reason to have more discussion. And if it goes down, then there’s time for more discussion and some changes. Scharfenberg: Alright, I would propose that Bandimere, for field lighting, just athletic field lighting get moved up to 2016. That a shelter, that the shelter get moved to 2017 and that the hockey rink get moved to 2018 with the $90,000 getting moved back to 2019 for the nature, Chanhassen Nature Preserve. Kelly: Okay, go through that one more time please. 7 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: Sure. I’m proposing that athletic field lighting for $400,000 get moved to 2016. That $500,000 for Bandimere Community Park shelter get moved to 2017. That the hockey rink gets moved back to 2018 and the Nature Preserve, $90,000 is moved back to 2019. And the money would all stay the same. Kelly: There’s a proposal. Mirroring the park and rec money that we have out here for $2,605,000 with a million 995 coming out of the park and rec with the following changes. That we move $400,000 of lighting from 2017 to 2016. We move the Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter of $500,000 from 2019 to 2017. That we move the hockey rink from 2016 to 2018. And that we move the Chanhassen Nature Trail extension of $90,000 from 2018 to 2019. Is there a second? Echternacht: I’ll second that motion. Kelly: And there’s a second. The motion is on with a second. Scharfenberg moved, Echternacht seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve a 2015-2019 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP) totaling $2,605,000 to complete the projects proposed by staff with the following amendments: $400,000 for athletic field lighting be moved from 2017 to 2016; $500,000 for Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter be moved from 2019 to 2017; $460,000 for hockey rink at Bandimere Park be moved from 2016 to 2018; and $90,000 for Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail Extension be moved from 2018 to 2019. The motion failed with a vote of 4 to 5. Kelly: I couldn’t tell. I heard 2 people say yes and I heard about 3 say no so let’s do a hand vote. All those in favor please raise your hand. Four. All those opposed please raise your hand. Five. The motion goes down. Any other motions out there? Ryan: Todd could you clarify the, well two things. The hockey rink include the lights, correct? Hoffman: Correct. Ryan: And then the $400,000 for the lights are for any fields we pick or is that just for Bandimere? Hoffman: It wasn’t designated. Ryan: It wasn’t. It was just athletic lighting. Scharfenberg: Yeah we just said at our last meeting that we didn’t, we were just going to put it in as a place holder for field lighting and not designate any particular field. Kelly: Are there any other motions out there or do we need further discussion? Thunberg: I just have one other clarification on the hockey rink. Maybe this is a question for Todd. If we don’t do anything, would that whole section of the park stay as it is right now? Is there any further work being done with some level of grading or anything or will it stay as is until we moved forward with say that $460,000 and that includes the final grading and that type of work. Hoffman: The initial Bandimere expansion work included acquisition of the two homes and then it does include the demolition of the existing home. The removal of the septic system. The removal of the well and then the grading of that site. Last night the council approved the Encroachment Agreement with 8 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Magellan Pipeline so we have that agreement and now we’re working on the finalization of the th demolition agreement for the house and then the grading for that site. So this fall, by November 15 it will just be a graded site. The front half will be graded. The front half does have, there’s gravel underneath there if you do build any kind of a court so there’s 2 foot of gravel. Sand underneath there. And then the back half will just simply be graded per the rough grading plan which would accommodate the future improvements of the proposed hockey rink. Kelly: Other questions, clarifications? Motions? Ryan: Just a general question, comment. If we did move forward with the hockey rink in 2016, does it then make sense to, and we’re going to have lights, does it then make sense at that same time to be putting lights in those back two soccer fields since we’re already doing, going to be addressing the lighting issue with neighbors with the hockey rinks? Does it then make sense to light those two soccer fields so we can start utilizing those back soccer fields? Were they also lacrosse potential or just soccer maybe? Ruegemer: Currently they are scheduled for soccer only. We’re taking care of our lacrosse needs at the Instant Web field but that potentially could be something to look at in the future when there is a need for that space. Ryan: By doing so that would then cut some of the $400,000 that we have allocated in 2017 and moving it up to 2016 or moving you know the $460,000 back to 2017 but I just think that if we’re going to be dealing with lighting in that area it might make sense to then be lighting soccer fields at the same time. Kelly: Todd from a cost standpoint on lighting, basically we’re going to have to put in main lines for all of Bandimere when we start lighting one area aren’t we? Hoffman: So if you lit the hockey rinks, the power would come from the Highway 101 and it would just come straight and there’d be a transformer there. Kelly: Straight to the hockey rink, okay. Hoffman: And then it’s another project to do additional lighting. Kelly: So there’s no cost savings in building other lights at the same time we do the hockey rink? Hoffman: Not necessarily at that point. Lighting more than one field at a time can result in some cost savings but there’s not going to be that big of benefit from doing hockey lights and then field lights at the same time but the other issue with the neighbors, that’s a completely different issue. One thing for the commission to consider, and just overall, throughout the year I hear from a lot of people and neighbors about you know what’s going on so Bandimere, everybody, a lot of those neighbors understand Bandimere is being improved upon. When we worked at the Riley Ridge neighborhood there was interest in hockey. So we talked about well there’s potential for a future hockey rink at Bandimere. That would be nice. And as a commission and as a community I think something that does benefit people is to give them something they don’t have first. We already have a lot of athletic fields. They’re not lit but they’re there and you know there are some things in these plans that we don’t have, that the community doesn’t currently have access to. And so you know I’m not saying that’s your recommendation to the City Council but from the people that I hear from they would like to see the things that they don’t have currently developed and built into their park system so they have access to those before they have increased access to other types of facilities that they are, that them and their children already have access to. 9 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Kelly: Other questions or clarifications? Otherwise I need a motion. Carron: Oh. I’ll make a motion. The motion is to, well this is the way I’d like to see it I guess. Moving the Chanhassen Nature Preserve from 2018 to 2019. Moving the Bandimere Community Park Picnic Shelter from 2019 to 2018. And also making a recommendation to the City Council that they take the 2016 neighborhood park picnic shelter initiative of Bandimere and moving those funds down to 2018 to coincide with our CIP. Kelly: Okay, could you go over that again. $90,000 from 2018 to 2019 for the Nature Preserve and then we’re moving the picnic shelter of $500,000 from 19 to 18? Carron: Correct. Kelly: Okay. Carron: And then with the recommendation to take the funds from 2016 Bandimere and move it into 2018. Scharfenberg: And the other numbers remaining the same Brent? That we’ve got for 2016 and 2017. Carron: Correct. Correct. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: 2018 and recommend that we move the $30,000 to $40,000 for the park shelter initiative to, was that 2018? Carron: Correct. Thunberg: Can I just get a quick clarifying question on that? Carron: Yeah. Thunberg: So they have $100,000 a year for those picnic shelters? Could we, would we leave the funds the same but then in a detailed list would it just be the recommendation of actually, you can maybe move a different park that was in 2017 or 2018 up and ask them to move Bandimere back so that it would coincide and that way we’d have time to have that conversation? Carron: Right. Thunberg: So it’s not moving the dollars. It’s just actually changing. Carron: I would just keep the dollars all the same. That way. Thunberg: Okay, just re-prioritizing Bandimere. Carron: Re-prioritize Bandimere and even if let’s say they’ve got $50,000 in for 2016 for Bandimere and you know in all sense you could take the $500,000 down to $450,000. I’d just leave the $500,000 the same as a place holder to once we get closer we’ll find what the actual true cost might be. 10 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Scharfenberg: And as Todd indicated that money isn’t coming out of our money anyway. That’s already been allocated out of excess funds so us touching that money or moving it doesn’t have anything to do with it so. Carron: Correct. Scharfenberg: I second that motion. Kelly: Wait a minute. Thank you but just a minute. So we have a motion for the Park and Rec Commission using the same CIP dollars, $2,605,000 with $1,995,000 coming out of the Park and Rec CIP with the following changes. That we take the Chanhassen Nature Trail extension from 2018 and move it to 2019 for $90,000. That we take the Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter of $500,000 from 2019 and move it to 2018 and then we make a recommendation to the City Council that they move their picnic shelter initiative for Bandimere to 2018 to correspond with the changes we’re making. Is there a second? Scharfenberg: Wait just before, I think and then to go in with Luke’s recommendation. Is that one of the other parks get moved up. Kelly: We’re just making a recommendation that they move it. We’re not making any dollar recommendation. Scharfenberg: No, no not dollar. Just that another park get moved up to take that place. Kelly: And that’s how they would do it I would think automatically. I kind of assume that. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Or we can add that in however you’d like. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Because they have just $100,000 for each year so if they flip flop. Is there a second? Ryan: Before we get a second on this, does anybody feel the need to light the soccer field? We talked about lighting soccer fields. Getting more usage for soccer. Is there any movement from that $400,000? I don’t know what the number would be to get those two soccer fields lit but moving that up to coincide with the hockey rink. Since it’s all in that same area to get all those, get those lights up in that back part of the park. Kelly: I guess I’d have a tough time moving that much money all together. Ryan: Not the $400,000. Whatever. Kelly: It’s still going to cost us I think, we did have the numbers before on the two soccer fields. Jerry, do you remember what they were? Sorry to put you on the spot. So the $400,000 would be the amount to light two fields at Bandimere that are soccer? Thunberg: From our last meeting the list had lighting for Soccer Field 1 was listed at $305,000 and lighting for Soccer Fields 2 and 3 was $500,000. I believe we just picked $400,000 as kind of a place holder for a portion of ballfields. 11 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Ryan: I take back that recommendation. Kelly: Thank you. Okay. Instead of repeating I’m just going to ask since I said it already. Is there a second? Scharfenberg: I second Commissioner Carron’s motion. Kelly: There is a motion that’s been seconded. Carron moved, Scharfenberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve a 2015-2019 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP) totaling $2,605,000 to complete the projects proposed by staff with the following amendments: Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail Extension of $90,000 be moved from 2018 to 2019; and the Bandimere Park Picnic Shelter of $500,000 be moved from 2019 to 2018 with a recommendation to the City Council that they move their picnic shelter initiative for Bandimere in 2016 to 2018 to correspond with this change. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: KLEINBANK SUMMER CONCERT SERIES EVALUATION. Kelly: Meghan, you’re on deck. Gess: Thank you Commissioner Kelly, members of the commission. Just wanted to go through the summary recap of the 2014 KleinBank Concert Series real quick. There is a full evaluation in document H-1(a) in the packet. To point out two edits to that actually that I kind of caught just this evening. There was a total of 9 total concerts. It says 10 in there because one of them was rescheduled so I actually counted that one twice so. The series was 9 concerts in total. One was a reschedule and we had two child concerts. One in the afternoon. One in the evening. So that was an increase of one concert from last year th and then we averaged about 295 people per show with the largest being the 3 Dillman’s on July 17 that had about 500 people in attendance. So it was great. We had about almost $400 in concession sales to help offset costs and then also obviously KleinBank was our title sponsor bringing us $2,000 which we just about matched for operation costs. Kelly: Questions for Meghan? Scharfenberg: Meghan and or the rest of staff, with respect to performance fees that we pay, does everybody get a fee and charge us a fee or is that kind of depend on the who it is? Gess: It would depend on who it is. So you know we kind of set out with a budget of what we can pay in a season and then divide it out accordingly. We try to have one headliner type, you know large band and then if there’s a few others. So the addition of the one additional concert, we had one that was complimentary or free of charge from MacPhail and that was on the, what was the name of the event? Hoffman: Night on the Town. Gess: Night on the Town, yeah. Hoffman: And one of the lowest prices are. 12 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Gess: Since I didn’t book all of them I don’t know. I don’t off the top of my head what all the costs were but I mean they really varied depending on how big they were. Hoffman: For the local bands, a couple hundred bucks to $300-$400 bucks to pay their cost. Scharfenberg: Any comments with respect to the performers this year regarding our venue site and I guess I’m speaking again to the whole shelter issue that we had proposed last year. I know the weather this year was a little bit better you know in terms of sun and heat compared to maybe the last couple years but any comments, with respect to venue site from the performers? Gess: Not that I had. You know like you said, we were lucky. We had a lot of great weather so I didn’t have anybody say oh I really wish I was under something or had a different setting. Kelly: And Meghan you were around for what, 2 or 3 of those concerts? Gess: I was around for 4. Kelly: 4, okay. Ruegemer: Just to echo Meghan’s comments. I didn’t hear any comments in regards to the performance area being too hot so you know I think we had a pretty good year that way and we kind of got through another year without a shelter so. Gess: Yeah and by 7:00 when they start you know the sun is in a pretty good spot on the other side of the library and even for the few that were pretty hot and sunny, you know when they were setting up, by the time they started it was a non-issue. Hoffman: If you remember June, if we would have had a shelter they would have moved out into the sun. Kelly: Any other questions for Meghan? Carron: Just a, yeah I’ve got a quick question here. Gess: Sure. Carron: What is the capacity of City Center as far as 500 people? I’m just trying to imagine what that looked like out there. Gess: I’m trying to think of how many picnic tables we have in the space. You know people bring blankets and lawn chairs. I mean it spreads kind of onto the pavers inbetween the library and City Hall so it spreads out pretty well. Hoffman: 1,000 would be about max. Ruegemer: Yeah we’ve 1,000 person one last couple years so. Carron: Okay, thanks. Kelly: Thanks for a great job Meghan. We’re glad you’re on the job. Gess: Thanks. 13 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 FALL ADULT SOFTBALL LEAGUE. Kelly: Jerry, adult softball. Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly and the rest of the commission. Just wanted to let everybody know and give them a brief update, the men’s fall league did start last Thursday so we kind of got done with our summer season as of last night with our make up’s so we went 3 extra weeks this year just to make up 3 st out of 5 weeks that were rain out’s here so with that so the fall league did start last Thursday. The 21. They play 6 weeks and if, barring there isn’t any rain out’s we’ll be done kind of the tail end of September for that so the 6 team league is going to be playing double headers out at Lake Ann Park on Thursday nights so we’ll be using Fields 4 and 5 out there for that so. It’s been a great start so far and hopefully we can continue the nice weather and hopefully get through a season without rain out’s. That would be fantastic but that’s really it. Kind of short and simple so if anybody has any questions I’ll entertain them. Boettcher: What time do the games start? Ruegemer: 6:00. 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00. And we’re using Fields 4 and 5 and then the rest of the fields out there are, have been booked for CAA baseball and CAA softball. Boettcher: Okay. Echternacht: How do the 6 teams compare with last year? Ruegemer: We’re down 2 teams from last year. Kelly: Any other questions for Jerry? Jerry, thanks for running the softball program and scheduling it. Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. Ryan: I don’t have a report or presentation but could we decide on a month that we want to get the CAA and Tonka United folks in to get that on the schedule? Kelly: I think that’s a great idea. Jerry, what would be a good time that we could have you, we want you involved in the meeting obviously? Ruegemer: You know probably Novemberish. Kelly: Okay. When you say Novemberish I hope it’s earlier than later. Ruegemer: October potentially. Kelly: Well I just don’t want it to get too close to Thanksgiving with people doing travel plans and all that type of thing. 14 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Ruegemer: Are we thinking that we want to do it on a regular scheduled commission night or have a, kind of a secondary meeting? Kelly: What do you think Elise, secondary meeting work better? Do you want to try and have people come in at 6:30? Ryan: I’d rather do it on the same night. We could go early. Kelly: And we’re usually a little earlier in November aren’t we then the fourth Tuesday? Scharfenberg: No we’re still in November. It’s December that we’re early. Kelly: It’s December that we’re early, okay. Scharfenberg: So I would say if we want to do soccer, let’s do soccer in November and baseball in January. Kelly: Oh I was thinking we’d bring them all in at the same time. Scharfenberg: Well, I think that’s a little. Kelly: Little much? Scharfenberg: Yeah. Kelly: Okay. Scharfenberg: I think having soccer in for one night and then have baseball in on another night would. Kelly: Okay. I like that. October and January. Jerry, do you want to make the invitations to the various groups. Ruegemer: Were we talking October or November? Ryan: November. Scharfenberg: November for soccer. January for baseball. Kelly: And that means we start at 6:30. th Ryan: And then Todd is the committee tour still on the September 10? Hoffman: Yes. Joint group and we’ll send out that. A letter will be coming out shortly. And that those work session meetings we’ll do a round table format so they’re all at the same table as commissioners. Kelly: Okay, perfect. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Kelly: Anything in the Administrative packet you want to point out Todd? 15 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Hoffman: Just great picnic comments. I think those are valuable and we learn from them but overall obviously people are very pleased with what we have here to offer in our community for outdoor facilities and picnic shelters. Kelly: I see there’s a little bit of a push to do online reservations. What are our thoughts on that? Ruegemer: You know it’s, certainly we can offer that with our current system as far as viewing. I’m not personally in favor of having people book space online but that’s certainly something that we could make available for viewing only. Kelly: And why would you be opposed to them registering online? Ruegemer: Well there’s a couple different ways. I think one way I can, if they’re non-residents I can talk them into a non-resident fee at times or if space isn’t available I can potentially sell them another location and continue the revenue stream. Kelly: You’ve got me sold. Carron: He was waiting for that question. Ruegemer: I’ve thought about it quite a bit. You know it’s just, I personally like the personal interaction. Yeah it takes time to talk to people on the phone and it does get busy in our office certainly with that but I think people like the personal touch in an automated world and I think that’s why you get some of the comments that about the process. You know we follow up. We call people for keys. We see if people need anything. We try to be responsive to questions and to people’s desires so I’m old school I know but I personally still like the interaction with people. Kelly: Well you do get a lot of nice comments too. Hoffman: What was the recent picnic you just had at Lake Ann? Ruegemer: About 400-450 people so that was the last Tuesday. A week ago. So we’ve, yeah we’re starting to be kind of the known for our Klingelhutz Pavilion. Some larger companies have booked both sites. The Lakeside and the Klingelhutz Pavilion so the park was filled to capacity last week with probably 400 plus cars. I mean it seemed like every lot was booked within Lake Ann so those are the type of things that we do run into. Some obstacles at times with parking, especially with the, a busy beach day and a party. Although that one wrapped up earlier in the afternoon, mid-afternoon but there is potential for games and that sort of thing. We start to kind of double up and we are at capacity at certain points. Hoffman: For commissioners, I think really important is that’s bringing a lot of people to town and when those people come to town that has a long term residual effect on, they come back here to buy homes. They come back here to do business. They’re doing business when they’re here and so we get some revenue but in that particular case, you know we get a few hundred bucks. That’s not even paying the garbage bill that particular day but there are a lot of other you know benefits to having all of those people come to our town and participate in our downtown business community and just, so just overall program of having lots of people in our parks is a good thing for our economic development and our overall health and viability as a community. Kelly: Great, thank you very much. Anybody have anything else or are we going to put it to the question? 16 Park and Recreation Commission – August 26, 2014 Carron moved, Echternacht seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 9 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned at 8:25 p.m. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 17