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CC Minutes 02-23-2015Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 23.Pretreatment shall be provided for all filtration basins accepting water from driving and parking surfaces. 24.A planting plan for the filtration features will be required before recording the final plat. 25.It is the applicant’s responsibility to assure that permits are received from all other agencies with jurisdiction over the project. 26.Topsoil shall meet, at a minimum, MnDOT specification 3877-2 “Loam Topsoil Borrow”. 27.It is the applicant’s responsibility to assure that permits are received from all other agencies with jurisdiction over the project. Planning Conditions: 1.The applicant shall work with staff to improve the screening of the southwesterly portion of the site through the use of berming and landscaping. 2.All rooftop and ground equipment must be screened from views. The site is permitted one monument sign facing Great Plains Boulevard. Sign illumination and design shall comply with ordinance. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you staff and development and Ebenezer. We’re looking forward to having you being a vital element of this community. Thank you very much. TH 610 WEST 96 STREET: REQUEST FOR VARIANCE FOR AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IN EXCESS OF 1,000 SQUARE FEET ON APPROXIMATELY 4.5 ACRES ZONED AGRICULTURAL ESTATE (A2); APPLICANT/OWNER: ROBERT AND CHRISTIN BOECKER. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item is a request for a variance that appeared before the Planning Commission back in November. The applicant asked rd to be extended to this date, February 23 and the reason it’s before you today is that it didn’t have the super majority for the Planning Commission. Therefore it was appealed by the applicant. It was denied. Excuse me, it was denied by the Planning Commission but the th applicant has the right to appeal any decision. The location is 610 West 96 Street. The subject th site again off of, gets access off of West 96 Street and 101. This is Pioneer Trail. So this is the subject site here. So the property is requesting a variance to construct 38.5 foot by 48 foot horse shelter expansion which is approximately 1,848 square feet on the existing pole barn and 11 foot by 24 foot day shelter. So the existing, the city code that applies to this would be structures. That was adopted in 2007 that says you can’t exceed 1,000 square feet and then also the agricultural district, the A2 district has four accessory structures that he already has a combined square footage of 12,706 and with the expansion there’d be 14,818 square feet. So the history of this property was in 1986 a permit was given for the 24 by 20 garage. That’s number 1. In 2000 22 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 the City issued a permit for the 48 by 72. That’s number 2. And then in number 3, in 2002 the City issued a permit for a 48 by 100 steel arch building and number 4 we didn’t have record of a building permit being issued for that one. And this is the request before you now. This issue, a stop work order was issued on it after we received a complaint from someone that stated that a structure was going on so. So a history of variances in the neighborhood. Most recently the Planning Commission did approve one on this property for a horse barn and that was just slightly over the 1,000 square feet. But then you can look at the variances here for the 7,120 square feet. That structure was denied. And then a variance for 1,800 square feet, accessory structure was approved on this building here. And then on this subject site there was a 2,560 square feet approved on this site here. And then just in that same area, this is off of Homestead Lane there was approval for a variance for 1,177 structure so just kind of to give you the sense of what’s in the area. So this one, the subject site is the largest as far as square footage of accessory buildings in the area and again when we adopted the ordinance was to limit the proliferation. If you look at agricultural use and not being able to operate a business out of your home, the intent was there. If it’s for agricultural purposes. For people that have horse barns. People that have those type of activities related to the property itself, agricultural. So we looked at prohibiting those and if they came to the Planning Commission, if they were over on a case by case basis. If it met the intent of the ordinance just like the last one the Planning Commission looked at was for 4 horses. They did grant a variance on that. Making it large enough for the owner to keep hay in the barn. So that’s kind of again a history. I’m not sure if you can see all those square footages if you want to go through but you start at, most of them on the north side. 2,000 square feet. 3,000. 4,000. 4,000. 1,300. Again this subject site being the largest. So the applicant is requesting again to add onto the existing structure intended for agricultural purposes, as they’ve stated in their application. Existing building with the addition on the site. Mayor Laufenburger: So just a moment. Are we looking at what you identified as building 2? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And this is a picture that was taken when? Kate Aanenson: Last fall. Mayor Laufenburger: About the time of the stop work order. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: There’s a close up of that. So this is the existing other, existing storage building. Mayor Laufenburger: Which one is? Kate Aanenson: This is I believe the one that’s furthest. 23 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: South. Kate Aanenson: Most southerly one, correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: And then this would be the one that we didn’t have a record of permit on. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: So with that the Planning Commission denied the variance request and directed the applicant to demolish the horse barn shelter expansion and adopt the Findings of Fact 7-0 so they were unanimous in their recommendation so again the applicant has requested appeal which as anybody aggrieved of a decision has a right to appeal and requested to be on this one. This meeting date. So with that we are still recommending denial of the variance request and still recommend the demolition and adoption of the Findings of Fact so I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Before I ask the applicant to come forward, are there any questions of staff at this time? Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Ms. Aanenson, I’d like to get a clarification. You said a stop work order. Was that because you found out that construction of a building was going on? Kate Aanenson: Yes. We were informed by someone that there was a building going on. Councilman McDonald: Okay so no permit had been pulled for this building that was under construction. Kate Aanenson: The addition, that’s correct. Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions? Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, is it okay if we go back to the picture of, okay. So according to the Planning Commission you know they denied the request for the variance and action will be to demolish what we see under construction right now, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Could he just leave it the way it is or does he have to take down every, I mean what has to go? Kate Aanenson: Well I guess. 24 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Councilwoman Tjornhom: If that would be something council, the direction council would go. Kate Aanenson: Well the additional part that was put on is that area there. That was what their recommendation was. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay so starting from where the framing starts. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, correct. And I didn’t show the, let me just back up. Where the other, oops. Sorry. I’ll go to the slide that showed the areas here. We talked about the additional 264 square feet that was also shown on this site. Mayor Laufenburger: Is that 264 square feet, is that, that’s part of this request as well? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: I’m sorry I didn’t, I jumped over that but that’s for that one shown. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’m sorry, I’m not understanding that. Can you go back? Kate Aanenson: That one’s kind of an open area to give you a cover. So it’s really just a roof and structure. It’s not enclosed. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. Kate Aanenson: I’ll let the applicant addressed specifically more how that’s being used. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions of staff at this time? Councilwoman Ryan: I do. Is there a maximum accessory structure and where is? Kate Aanenson: The City ordinance in this district allows 25 percent. I just add up the accessory structure and you’re close, with what’s being proposed. What’s there right now, just the accessory. Not the house is close to 20 percent. Excuse me 17 percent. With the addition you’re close to 20 percent. That doesn’t include the house and I took off what’s on the wetland because we don’t count the wetland area towards the upland so you’re getting close to the 25 percent. Councilwoman Ryan: So is it, was it denied or was the issue the size of the structure? The number of structures. The fact that a permit wasn’t pulled. Kate Aanenson: The fact that the permit wasn’t pulled wasn’t the main point. I mean that’s important because we have no record of a permit on another building there but the main point is, 25 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 we have a limit on accessory structures. This one has by far the most accessory structures. The reason we limit those is because if they’re for agricultural purposes people have horses and the like, that’s what the proposed intent is. Not for other types of activities. One of our biggest problems that we have is other types of uses out of accessory structures. Any business and the like has to be in the principal structure and it can’t be in an accessory structure. Often these types of uses become, these types of buildings are used for commercial businesses and those become a complaint problem so that’s why we went back. We were having a number of problems with those and so we went back in 2007 and regulated those. Controlled those so we know what they were, who was building them and what they were for. Mayor Laufenburger: But isn’t it true, to piggyback on what Councilwoman Ryan is asking, the ordinance that limited the accessory structure size in 2007, if structures were in place prior to 2007 do we have any record where we went in and said you have to take a structure down? Kate Aanenson: No. We’re not saying that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So that would essentially, would that qualify as quote, legally nonconforming? Kate Aanenson: Correct. I would say except for the one. Mayor Laufenburger: The building. Kate Aanenson: The buildings, yeah. Except for the one we don’t know about the permit, yes. The other one, there’s two that were permitted. Those are nonconforming. Legal nonconforming, correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So in that case let’s based on what we’re looking at right now, Building 1. Building 2 and Building 3 clearly legally nonconforming. And though Building number 4 we don’t have record of that being built, if it was in place prior to 2007 would it be automatically called legally nonconforming? Kate Aanenson: I would have the City Attorney address that question. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Knutson, can you answer that question? Roger Knutson: If it met the requirements of a zoning ordinance at the time when it was built then it would be legally nonconforming. Kate Aanenson: But it didn’t get a permit. Roger Knutson: That, the issue on the permit depends on if you’re building an agricultural building for agricultural purposes as a defined term you don’t need a building permit. Mayor Laufenburger: You mean prior to 2007? 26 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Roger Knutson: Now. Even now. Mayor Laufenburger: Even now. An agricultural building does not need a building permit. Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: If it’s in an agricultural zone. Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Knutson. Okay, Councilwoman Ryan I intercepted your question there a little bit. Councilwoman Ryan: No. Mayor Laufenburger: You’re okay? Councilwoman Ryan: Yes I’m good Mayor, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Anybody else any questions? Is the applicant present tonight and would the applicant like to make a comment? State your name and address please. Chapin Hall: Yes. My name is Chapin Hall. I’m an attorney from Minnetonka, Minnesota and. Mayor Laufenburger: What’s your address Mr. Hall? Chapin Hall: It’s the Commons Minnetonka, Suite 204, 14451 Highway 7, Minnetonka 55345. Mayor Laufenburger: Good. I think our recording secretary got that. Chapin Hall: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. And Mr. Hall, are you the applicant? Chapin Hall: I am representing the applicants. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Chapin Hall: Mr. Boecker is here as well and I’d just like to say it’s my pleasure to be here tonight and it’s my privilege to represent Robert and Christin Boecker regarding this variance request. I believe the staff has done a great job of giving sort of the history and what I’d like to do is just touch on the history. Talk about sort of the big picture and then drill down to the details on this variance if I may. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay Mr. Hall I just want to remind you of a couple things. Number one, be sure to address your comments to me. 27 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Chapin Hall: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: And number two, be aware of the fact that the council has reviewed the packet which includes comments and the verbatim from the Planning Commission and so what we are most interested in is if there’s some new information. Chapin Hall: Perfect. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay? Chapin Hall: Thank you very much. Let me then address the first issue which was the four existing accessory structures were all in place as of May 29, 2007. That’s when Section 20-904, the accessory structures had the amendment that then said okay we’re going to limit that to 1,000 square feet. So essentially where you’d say legally nonconforming, the way I would describe that is they were sort of grandfathered in. That’s another way of saying the same thing. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Chapin Hall: So these structures were grandfathered in. So let’s talk about the concern about that amendment. The concern is that the accessory structures may be used in conjunction with home occupations. They become a common cause of complaints, traffic, parking and noise. But in this case the Boeckers have never had a complaint and furthermore the Boeckers do not use their accessory structures in conjunction with a home occupation. There was some concern at the Planning Commission level about some of that and a couple of Mr. Boecker’s business associates used his address as a delivery place. That’s all come to an end so there isn’t any occupation that’s going on with the accessory structures. The next concern that’s raised is that the property may be sold in the future and the new owner may want to run a business out of these accessory structures. Great concern. Easily understood. However it just simply doesn’t apply in this case and this is why. The four accessory structures already exist on the property. The proposed addition, keep in mind the proposed addition is for a horse stable. That’s what the addition is and so whether or not, let’s just say that the council turns down the request for a variance. Those four accessory structures are still going to be there. Some day when the Boeckers sell the property, whoever the new owner is, those accessory structures are going to be there. That person is or isn’t going to run an occupation out of that based on a horse stable. Now the Boeckers specifically purchased this property with the goal of having horses some day and they believe as their neighbors all agree that having horses in this part of the city is perfectly appropriate. And in fact the City has specifically determined that a variance for a horse stable is one, an appropriate use of an accessory structure in keeping with the character of the neighborhood and two, entirely consistent with the 2013 Comprehensive Plan. And the reason we know this is because the council has approved such projects. The projects that we talked about, the other variances that have been granted. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Hall I think we’re clear on what other variances have been approved so you can skip over that portion of your presentation. 28 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Chapin Hall: Thank you. So let me move then specifically to Section 20-58. These are the specific criteria for granting a variance and there are 6 specific criteria. I’m sure Your Honor and the council is familiar with them. Number 6 doesn’t apply. That applies to earth structures and we don’t have that here and neither did any of the other ones. And so when we look at number 1 where the variance shall only be permitted where they are in harmony with the general purposes and intent of the chapter and when the variances are consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. This proposed variance is precisely in harmony. The proposed variance has identical architecture to the already existing building to which it is an addition. We saw the picture of it there. You can hardly even tell where the roof line is and where the change is. It fits right in. And the use, which is a stable for horses has already been approved via variance request approval for other neighbors in the A2, Agricultural Estate District. So we know that the idea of a horse stable with horses in the A2 district, that’s a good use. That fits in with the neighborhood. Therefore the Comprehensive Plan contemplates that horses being stabled in the A2, Agricultural Estate is consistent and also consistent just with the whole idea of the highest best use. And keep in mind that before any subdivision or further development can occur the City Planning Commission must be engaged in further oversight will occur so I invite and respectfully submit to Your Honor and to council that we not speculate about a potential future buyer running a business out of there. That we look at what’s actually on the table now. I can tell you the Boeckers have a 2 year old son, Grayson. They plan to be around for a long period of time. The Boeckers propose to use the property in a reasonable manner not permitted by this chapter, and this is criteria number 2. And there is some new information since the Planning Commission because the Planning Commission did on January 20, 2015 approve a horse stable under very similar circumstances and I don’t know if you have those Minutes but the Minutes th from the January 20 are very instructive and part of it is because of the specific information that went into, there was more of an explanation about the needs of the horses and that was a case where you were looking at 4 horses on 2 ½ acres and there was a question about a variance, which was 1,440 feet. Square feet in that so there’s no question it requires a variance. And what happened was, was that you need to have enough area for each individual horse to have their own separate stall and Carol Dunsmore interacted with staff on that case and Carol Dunsmore has interacted with the Boeckers on this case. And Ms. Dunsmore is in charge of inspecting stables and she explained that horses need enough room to have room to stand up and room to lie down and there needs to be enough room for each stall so that the horse is able to get up without getting stuck and the word to use is cast. Cast means getting stuck under the stall. And also we need to take into account and part of the reason for the size of the project, there’s two pieces to that that I want to emphasize is the Boeckers are looking to have 2 horses at the present time but they’d like to have enough space so that they could have 4 horses in the future. Add 2 more in the future, they’ve got that flexibility and so that’s part of the size. They really don’t want to come back and go through this again. Mayor Laufenburger: So it sounds like Mr. Hall then this particular point, you’re trying to identify that this is the space that’s needed for 2 and possibly 4 horses. Chapin Hall: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: I agree. 29 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Chapin Hall: And for the feed. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Chapin Hall: And for the feed because they have to have a 5 month supply of hay during Minnesota winters because fresh hay won’t be available and let’s see. Going onto number 3, the purpose of the variance. It says the purpose of the variation is not based on economic considerations alone and that is certainly the case here. It meets this criteria. The purpose of the variance is to build a stable that will allow 2 horses adequately stabled. It’s a quality of life issue. Just like the other horses that are stabled in the A2 lots nearby. And then the fourth one is the plight of the landowner is due to circumstances unique to the property not created by the landowner. The variance request here results from the grandfathered in structures and so when you look at this parcel, every other parcel whether it has as much accessory space or less th accessory space, once you have May 29 of 2007 come in, all those parcels are the same and when you’re talking about okay, I want to add something more than 1,000 square feet, it’s got to go through the variance process and we just don’t believe that the Boeckers should be penalized because they built perfectly appropriate buildings at the time. Now could they be building these buildings now? No, but they got, they were all in existence and got grandfathered in. So the plight of the Boeckers is the same as the Haverly’s who were just approved by the commission th on January 20. And I know that no two cases are identical. I’m not trying to argue that you have to approve it because you approved the Haverly’s but I think the Haverly’s situation was very instructive. And then number 5, the variance if granted will not alter the essential character of the locality. The essential character will not be altered. The accessory structures are already there. Other stables are already there. Here we’re talking about adding on a stable to the already existing pole barn. And so one other thing I just simply want to touch on is because I don’t th know if it’s part of your packet but specifically the Planning Commission on January 20, and this was Senior Planner Sharmeen Al-Jaff and she indicated when she was talking about the staff report. However if you have an agricultural use that met the intent of the ordinance then it would be up to the Planning Commission and City Council to evaluate those situations and determine if that variance would be approved and in this case having horses on site is a use that is compatible with agricultural uses and again staff is recommending approval. And so the idea of a horse stable and horses on these, and again this is all in the A2, Agricultural Estate and I think that’s very important. One other thing I just simply wanted to add in as well is, is that horses average about 1,000 pounds and they need to eat 2 percent of their body weight per day. That’s about 20 pounds in normal temperatures and when the temperature gets below zero horses actually stay warm by eating more food. That’s what’s called a hindgut fermenter is where they use the bacteria in their digestive tract and a by product and that’s how they heat up and stay warm. And so the whole idea is, is you can’t put these horses in any of the other accessory structures that are there because it has to have certain building criteria to keep them warm in the wintertime. To allow air flow and to have it cool in the summertime so they can regulate their temperature so that the Boeckers can have enough room for 4 stalls and 4 horses which we know is the perfectly th appropriate number because that was just approved on January 20 so the number per se and to have the space to bring in the hay in the wintertime to adequately take care of the horses. I hope that addresses the concerns. I’m happy to answer any questions that Your Honor or the council may have. 30 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Does the council have any questions of Mr. Hall? Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Well good evening and thanks for the walk through. It answers a lot of questions. Is the 1,848 square feet, is that for the horses or does that also include usage within that facility structure number 2? Chapin Hall: It’s for the horses. It’s to allow adequate room, more than adequate room for 2 stalls but enough room to have 4 stalls eventually if they so decide but it’s to house the horses. To have the right size so they can lie down and stand up and to also have the hay in the wintertime where it’s separate, away from other buildings. Away from the house so that adequate hay can be stored in for the wintertime and it’s right there and handy. Councilman McDonald: Okay and I guess, you know you’re probably familiar with, well I guess I’ll call it cabin law in Minnesota about nonconforming structures that are within the boundaries of a lakeshore. Are you familiar with those laws? Chapin Hall: Yes I am. Generally yes. Councilman McDonald: And basically they’re also nonconforming uses. However if something happens to one of those structures and you try to re-build it, you have to re-build it exactly as it was upon the footprint that was there. Would you agree with that? Chapin Hall: Yes, that’s generally true. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Tell me how that differs on number 2 where what your client is doing is basically re-building structure number 2. At that point doesn’t it lose some of it’s status as being a prior nonconforming structure? He now needs to bring it up to code. Chapin Hall: Well what they’re doing is the structure’s perfectly good as is but what they’re doing is they’re adding onto it specifically for the horse stable and making it look seamless and beautiful so that, I’ve been out to the property and, because I wanted to take a look at all of this for myself first hand and when you stand there, that’s a perfect pic. When you stand there, once this is finished off with the stables on the right hand side of the picture, you’ll look at that and go, wow. That looks like it was all built all at one time. Councilman McDonald: However you know and there’s case law against what you’re arguing because if you go and try to add onto one of those structures it now has to conform with whatever the zoning regulations are which means a lot of people either tear down their cabins and move them back so they can do a bigger cabin or they don’t add on. Chapin Hall: Right and what we have here is we don’t have an encroachment on the lakeshore. We don’t have any setbacks issues. 31 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Councilman McDonald: No, no I’m not saying you do. What I’m saying is, is that your argument is that this is a nonconforming structure. However you’re now adding on to a nonconforming structure and what I’m asking is, well then doesn’t lose it’s nonconforming status at which point it must now conform to whatever the zoning laws are. Chapin Hall: I would disagree with that because it’s an addition on to comply with the Comprehensive Plan and also to architecturally look nice. Councilman McDonald: Okay, we’ll leave it at that. We could probably disagree on that and that would be a matter of law to be addressed. The other thing we talk about businesses. Are you aware of how many businesses are registered at this address? Chapin Hall: Yes. There were some businesses registered at the addressed. Councilman McDonald: Do you know the exact number? Chapin Hall: I don’t know. I believe it was 4 or 5. Councilman McDonald: Do you know what those businesses are? Chapin Hall: Some of the businesses have to do with motorcycle parts and repair. Councilman McDonald: Okay one of them is, your client does salvage lumber which I understand he processes on site wherever he finds the lumber. However paperwork and those things are handled from a home office. Would you agree with that? Chapin Hall: That’s correct. That’s his existing business at the present time, yes. Councilman McDonald: Okay. And then what’s Boecker’s Properties? What do they do? Chapin Hall: Boecker’s Properties is, Bob do you want to handle this? Robert Boecker: We own townhomes. Mayor Laufenburger: I just, Mr. Hall you’re welcome to answer any questions you can but if you’re going to ask Mr. Boecker to speak, then I would ask him to come up to the podium so that our, so we can record it if anybody’s listening so. Chapin Hall: Of course, yes. And I want to get accurate information and I want to be sure it’s accurate so Bob why don’t you come on up to the. Mayor Laufenburger: Invite him to join you. And just for the record would you please state your name and your address please. th Robert Boecker: Yep, Robert Boecker, 610 West 96 Street, Chanhassen, Minnesota. 32 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Great. Councilman McDonald: Okay so tell us a little something about Boecker’s Properties. Robert Boecker: Boecker’s Properties. Councilman McDonald: Yeah, what does it do? Robert Boecker: My wife used to be in mortgages and at the time we bought multiple properties and rented them out so that’s the LLC that we used when we owned those properties. But we no longer, we sold off all those properties but we still have that LLC just in existence. Councilman McDonald: Okay, so it also was pretty much just a paper LLC. Robert Boecker: Correct. Councilman McDonald: What’s the other one? The Devaan-Sellers. Robert Boecker: Devan-Sellers and Cheap Thrill Motorsports are two of my friends that race, that I race with and we set those up so that when we, I also restore vintage motorcycles and when we need to buy parts for those, in order for us to get discounted parts we need to have an established business name and address in order to do that. To get to buy basically parts at wholesale price. Councilman McDonald: Okay so Cheap Thrills Motorsports is part of that so those two are really kind of one entity more or less? Robert Boecker: Yep. Yep. Councilman McDonald: Okay. And you say what it’s for, it’s for restoring motorcycles that you find. How many motorcycles do you end up restoring in a given period of time? Say 6 months to a year. Robert Boecker: Maybe 3 or 4 but most of them I collect. I have a collection of cars and motorcycles and snowmobiles. Councilman McDonald: How many motorcycles do you currently have? Robert Boecker: 12. Councilman McDonald: And what happens, now you said you buy parts to restore these. Robert Boecker: Right. Councilman McDonald: Then what happens to the other parts? 33 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Robert Boecker: The old parts? Councilman McDonald: Yeah the old parts and so in the Planning Commission you had said something about you sell them on Craig’s List. Robert Boecker: Well at the commission I posed the question that if I’m restoring a truck and I need to replace the fender or I decide to but the fender is savable and I sell that on Craig’s List, is that running a business? I posed that question because then yes, I will take the fender off of something that I’m restoring and instead of throwing it away I will sell it so you know is that considered running a business? Councilman McDonald: Well at any given time when you’re refurbishing these motorcycles, how many parts are salvageable versus how many do you have to buy new? Robert Boecker: Well that totally depends on the condition of the bike when you get it so, you might be replacing 50 percent of the parts on it. On a bike. Councilman McDonald: And then do you sell these parts as is or you know do you refurbish them or do you do anything with them? Robert Boecker: No, just as is. Councilman McDonald: Just as is. And. Robert Boecker: Or keep them for future use because some of them can be refurbished and then would be able to be used on one of those bikes in the future if one of those bikes has that part go out. Councilman McDonald: Okay and so you sell these on Craig’s List? Robert Boecker: Well I collect them. Councilman McDonald: You collect them. Robert Boecker: Yep and race. Councilman McDonald: Okay. So when I do a Google search on Cheap Thrills Motorsports and I get a site on EBay listing parts, is that your’s? Robert Boecker: That is not mine. Councilman McDonald: Who’s is that? Robert Boecker: That’s Eric and Chase Devaan and Sellers. That is the Cheap Thrills Motorsports. My name is not on Cheap Thrills Motorsports. 34 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Councilman McDonald: But, well now wait a minute. According to the State of Minnesota your address is listed as the primary address for this business. Robert Boecker: Right, so that we could use it to buy parts but the business, that business that they have, you know they’re running. They’re doing the racing is not part of myself. And actually if you Goggle search, that’s what we touched on earlier was that they had sold some parts and that has since stopped so. Councilman McDonald: So when you say sold. Mayor Laufenburger: Just a second. What has stopped Mr. Boecker? Robert Boecker: Any type of part sales on a site like he’s. Mayor Laufenburger: By you? Robert Boecker: I don’t sell any, no. Mayor Laufenburger: And by Mr. Devaan and Mr. Sellers? Robert Boecker: Not from my property, they do not. Councilman McDonald: Okay going back to these parts you say everything stopped. Then why on EBay are you still the contact for all of this? Robert Boecker: I am not. Councilman McDonald: Why are there over 8 pages worth of parts? How can this be from refurbishing motorcycles? Robert Boecker: This is, well when they tear them down they sell the parts but this is not me. I don’t, I have nothing to do with Devaan-Sellers and Cheap Thrill Motorsports. Those are their entity. Is my name on any of those? Councilman McDonald: Now legally you are associated with them because you’ve allowed your address to be used as their place of business so whether you’re running the business or they’re running a business, a business is being run on your property. Now whether you’re involved in it or they’re involved in it doesn’t make any difference at this point. There is a business there. That’s what I’m trying to get at. Would you agree with that? Robert Boecker: Not any longer there is not. Councilman McDonald: When you say not any longer, you were just before the Planning Commission not more than 2 ½ months ago, was there a business being run at that time? 35 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Robert Boecker: Yes there, well there was the sale of parts and so that is considered, would be. Councilman McDonald: Okay well you seem to go round and round circles about that when you were asked about that by Mr. Aller who was the Chairman of that commission. He couldn’t seem to get a straight answer out of you and that’s where you bring things about Craig’s List. There is a difference between Craig’s List and EBay. On EBay I understand why you would want to be incorporated because there is a liability issue for any retailer selling parts. So that again circles back to why are you incorporated if you have nothing to do with it and yet there is a business that you’ve just admitted to being run off your property. Robert Boecker: But my name’s not on that. I don’t have anything to do with the actual sale. Councilman McDonald: Again it doesn’t make any difference if your name’s on it or not. The fact is a business is being run on your property. And then we get back to the issue of why do you need such an extensive number of out buildings? I will concede the fact that as of 2007, whatever’s there is there and it’s off the table so you can have whatever’s there. Going forward you do have to meet the ordinances and the requirements. Now if we take that as the premise going forward, now what you’re asking for is a variance of about 800 and something square feet. If we were to say no. You have to live within what the ordinance says, 1,000 square feet and that’s it, are you going to be able to still continue with that? You may not be able to get 4 horses. Maybe you can get 3. Robert Boecker: I would like to proceed as originally drawn up. I guess the expense of doing that, removing that from the design would be kind of an extensive and expensive undertaking. I’d prefer to go as designed and make sure that we meet any type of business requirements as far as your concerns with sales or any type of EBay sales that happened out of this location. I’d rather make sure that we comply there fully, whatever it would take to do that. Councilman McDonald: Well are you using any of these buildings as a warehouse? Robert Boecker: This, what you see on the left hand side is all, is where I keep all my motorcycles on that side so that’s, so I have parts off of those motorcycles, yes. Councilman McDonald: Okay and who’s parts are those? Your’s or your friends? Robert Boecker: My parts. They do, they have race bikes there though. So they do have race bikes there so I can’t say that it’s all mine because they have a couple plastics that are off of their bikes at my house. Councilman McDonald: Okay. I guess where I’m going with this and I disagree with your counsel is the fact that if you make a modification to a nonconforming structure, I believe under the law you’ve now got to make that a conforming structure which means we need to relook at the square footage. We’ll turn that over to the City’s Attorney and get an opinion on that because I’m just you know giving you my opinion. Robert Boecker: Right. 36 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Councilman McDonald: But I think that you know if we’re going to look at all of this then we probably need to look at it and find out exactly where you’re at as far as the ordinance is concerned and if you’re going to add onto this building, that’s a question I’ve got is, okay does that affect the rest of the building because you’ve connected the roof so it’s now one building. You’ve got the walls in common. You’re now adding on to an existing structure and I think at that point you bring the whole structure back into question and so now you’re already at that point in excess of the 1,000 square feet that the ordinance would allow so we wouldn’t really need to approve the stuff you’re adding on. I mean that’s where I think this needs to go is we need to get a legal question answered is that, if you’re now going to modify a nonconforming structure, does that mean it needs to be brought into compliance with the current zoning laws. Mayor Laufenburger: And just Mr. McDonald, just for clarification for me and for other members of the council. What you’re suggesting is, if the non-conformance, if the legal non- conformance is lost because he’s adding to this building, then this building would be subject to agricultural building use. Is that what you’re saying? Councilman McDonald: That’s what I’m saying. It needs to go back and if you’re going to take that cloak off of it at that point I think the whole thing needs to be looked at and what I’m basing this on is cabin law because at that point, and that is no different. That is also zoning issues and anytime you go in and you do a modification to a nonconforming structure you now have to meet the zoning requirements and there are cases that you can go look at where they’ve had to either tear down the cabin or they had to tear down the add-on. So that’s where I think we’re at is that you’ve raised the legal issue here that needs to be resolved before I feel that we could actually vote on this. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Robert Boecker: Can I ask a question? Mayor Laufenburger: Just a moment please. Mr. Knutson, would you like to comment on Mr. McDonald’s questions or thoughts? Roger Knutson: Sure. A nonconforming structure is, you can’t expand a nonconforming structure. Mayor Laufenburger: You can not expand a nonconforming structure. Roger Knutson: Unless you bring the structure into conformity as a general law. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so that would be your legal opinion. Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Alright. Just a moment Mr. Boecker, okay? Mr. McDonald, do you have any other questions at this time? 37 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Councilman McDonald: Well I think we, this is the big issue. The whole thing about the businesses, yeah we can look into that a little bit more but that would probably deal with other issues besides whether we can do the buildings or not. I think this is the issue that’s got to be decided as to whether or not this building can continue to exist or if it has to now conform with existing zoning. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Roger Knutson: If I could. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Knutson. Roger Knutson: I could just quickly read it. It’s one sentence. Mayor Laufenburger: And what are you referencing from here? Roger Knutson: State Statute 462.357, Subdivision 1e. Any nonconformity, including the lawful occupation or use of land or premises existing at time of adoption of additional controls under this chapter may be continued until repair, replacement or restoration, maintenance or improvement but not including expansion. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Knutson. Mr. Hall, do you have a comment on that at all? Chapin Hall: I do. One of the reasons we’re here in this variance proceeding is because, I got involved in this late. Mayor Laufenburger: I would agree with you. That is one of the reasons this is here. Chapin Hall: Right. And what we’re asking for is the council does have the authority to approve the variance even if it now includes legally if you want to, the whole building. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Chapin Hall: That can still be a variance because it’s in excess of 1,000 square feet and whether it’s 840 square feet in excess or you say it’s now going to be the whole building because of that. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Chapin Hall: The council still, to me there’s a distinction there but it’s not a critical one when we’re looking at the six part test and the real life quality of life issue that Bob and Christin Boecker just simply want to have horses on their property. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Okay I would agree with you. We as a council we are often reminded by our legal counsel that we can do anything that we want. Oh excuse me. Chapin Hall: No I’m just saying it’s not an insurmountable problem but it does require. 38 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: I would not disagree with you. It is not an insurmountable. Mr. Boecker, you had a question. All I would ask is that there are other council members that may have questions. Could I ask you to hold your question for just a second please? Robert Boecker: Sure. Mayor Laufenburger: Is that okay? Robert Boecker: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions of council? From council. Mr. McDonald? Councilman McDonald: No, no. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Councilman McDonald: I’m sorry, I got mixed up with lawyers so. Mayor Laufenburger: Any other? Councilwoman Ryan. Councilwoman Ryan: Yes Mayor. And maybe you addressed it before but I’d like to hear it again. Why was a permit not pulled initially? Robert Boecker: Well when you read through it says just like Roger said, that an agricultural building does not require a permit so we thought that since it was a horse structure, that that’s all we were adding on, that we wouldn’t need it because that’s what it says. And then when we went, when we had the stop order and we went up there, then we were informed that since we were under the 10 acre minimum to be considered agricultural, that you had to apply to the, or adhere to the, that you had to get a building permit basically. And then we applied for it. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you. And then you had mentioned at the Planning Commission meeting the reason why, I think the question was asked whether or not you were willing to put horses in another one of your structure and you said no because of you know. Robert Boecker: Yeah the reasoning for that is that when those structures were built they were built for a certain purposes. I do like I said, I have snowmobiles. I have cars and motorcycles and I don’t want to introduce the animal, the horse, the hay into an area where I have my classic cars stored. Councilwoman Ryan: So then how, so that gets me to this specific building. If you’re concerned about the cross contamination between hay and horse and classic, vintage motorcycles, then how is this structure any different when it’s going to be the same structure? Robert Boecker: Because the existing structure you see there is staying intact. The end wall that you see that’s on the inside stays intact. The only reason we attached the two structures was so 39 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 that aesthetically it was all one building so they are still separated with the existing exterior wall. That stays in place so when you walk into the horse stable the exterior wall of that shed is still there so there is no connection between the two. And that was actually what my question was going to be. What if the two weren’t connected? Because they do not need to be. The one doesn’t need the other. We just, like I said we just connected them for appearance. So what if they were two feet apart? Mayor Laufenburger: So Mr. Boecker are you saying that you’re prepared to demolish the connection between the two buildings? Is that what you’re saying? Robert Boecker: I would be willing to do that and separate the two buildings. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Robert Boecker: By a foot, two feet, 12. Whatever would work out as far as having access. Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure building code would be, require separation between buildings. We’d have to verify that too. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, subject to appropriate ordinances. Councilwoman Ryan, did you have any other questions? Councilwoman Ryan: That’s it. No thank you Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, anybody else? Can you bring up the map that shows all the buildings? Kate Aanenson: Oh, on this site? Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah. It’s the one that has 1, 2, 3, 4. I’m going to address this to Mr. Hall but if you want to have Mr. Boecker answer this you’re welcome to. Tell us what’s in Building 1? Robert Boecker: Building 1 is our, that’s where we park our cars. Our everyday cars. Mayor Laufenburger: So it has. Robert Boecker: Building 1, our house doesn’t have a garage. Mayor Laufenburger: So it has cars. It has. Robert Boecker: That’s our detached 3 car everyday parking. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And when was that built? Robert Boecker: That was there when I bought the house so. 40 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Chapin Hall: 1986. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. And Ms. Aanenson a permit was issued? Describe again what’s in Building 2. Robert Boecker: Building 2 is the picture, is the one that we’re adding onto and that’s the one that has my motorcycles in it. Mayor Laufenburger: So just give me a picture of that. Motorcycles, are they on the floor? Are they suspended from the ceiling? Robert Boecker: No, they’re on the floor lined up and I also have a couple shelves in there with some of my stuff on to. Mayor Laufenburger: You said. Robert Boecker: And there’s a couple of snowmobiles on that one too. Up on pallet racking. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright and you said that in this building there are some materials that are, belong to Devaan or Sellers? Robert Boecker: Only the parts off of their race bikes. Mayor Laufenburger: The parts off of their race bikes. Robert Boecker: Yeah. Plastics basically. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. And that building was built with a permit in 2000. Let’s go to Building 3. That’s the one on the southern most part of your building or of your lot. Robert Boecker: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: What’s in there? Robert Boecker: Classic cars. That’s where I keep them. Mayor Laufenburger: How many cars? Robert Boecker: There’s probably 22. 23. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Robert Boecker: There’s also cars in 4. 3 is kind of my. 41 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Well let’s just deal with 3 right now. So these are all your cars in number 3, right? Robert Boecker: Yes. Yep. This is all my personal storage. My cars. Mayor Laufenburger: And are there used parts in there too? Robert Boecker: No, they’re all complete cars. Mayor Laufenburger: So these are, this is like Jay Leno’s right? Robert Boecker: I wish it was to that extent not, but yeah. Those are the restored ones. Mayor Laufenburger: So they stay in there. Do you sell them? Do you buy more? Robert Boecker: They’re just for occasional use in the summer. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Okay. Now let’s talk about Building number 4. Robert Boecker: Building number 4 has unrestored cars in it and there are some parts in there. Fenders and stuff like that because that structure was just a structure that’s temporary in order to, I don’t really, if it collapsed or something it would be a great loss because none of those cars are restored. So after I do what, get the cars to the point I want then it gets stored in number 3. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So number 4 and Mr. Knutson my question for you is, if that building was built prior to 2007 for purpose other than agriculture would a permit be required? Roger Knutson: If it were built before 2007 for something agricultural, yes. Mayor Laufenburger: And why is that? Roger Knutson: All buildings require, with certain exceptions require building permits. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Roger Knutson: Agricultural buildings don’t. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. So Mr. Boecker, when that building was built what prompted you to build that building? Robert Boecker: Just for the storage of unrestored cars. Mayor Laufenburger: And is there a particular reason why you didn’t pull a permit on that building? 42 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Robert Boecker: I didn’t think, because it’s a hoop house. It’s a temporary structure so I didn’t think that there was, that they required. That the City required a permit for that. For a temporary structure. There’s no footings. It’s just the pipe in the ground so. But I have no problems applying for it and permitting that structure. It was built in 2006 so it was before the deadline so I would have no problem permitting it up to whatever the City. Mayor Laufenburger: This is just a comment. Your, parts of what you’re telling us seem to tell us that you’re vigilant about reading about buildings such as you read that an agricultural building doesn’t need a permit. Robert Boecker: That was only after the stop order. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh, okay. Alright, that’s good to know. So Building number 4, you’re prepared to apply for and receive a permit, and if the permit is denied would you take it down? Robert Boecker: Well I don’t think it should have to come down because it was before 2007. Mayor Laufenburger: But if it were denied. Robert Boecker: I would not want to. Mayor Laufenburger: Well I understand that. I understand that, okay. Let’s see. I want to understand a little bit more about the, the extension on Building number 2 or the expansion. About when did you start building that? Robert Boecker: Oh, well do you have the date of the stop Kate? th Mayor Laufenburger: August 28. Robert Boecker: Yeah, so it would have been 4 days before that. th Mayor Laufenburger: Fast workers. Then, so August 28 you informed to stop the work order. th Stop the work. And then on September 24 you applied for a permit for the addition, or there about’s. Robert Boecker: Right because then after finding out that it had to be full building permits, I had to wait for the building, Ram Buildings to get stamp drawings because I had drawings. Mayor Laufenburger: Yep. Robert Boecker: But I didn’t have structural stamp drawings so that delay was waiting for those plans. th Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Then on or about August 16 you came in to, that’s when the variance was applied for right? 43 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Robert Boecker: Sounds about right. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. About the same time you applied for a fence permit. Robert Boecker: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And what’s that for? Robert Boecker: That’s for the horses. It’s a, you have to apply for a permit to put up your horse fence. So that’s what, and that’s approved and already ready to go. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, okay. And then on 11-18 the Planning Commission denied the th variance and then on just related material or timeline, on February 13 received a letter from Mr. Chapin Hall, that’s you, suggesting that we simply change the ordinance to affect properties only less than 4 acres, is that correct? I mean it had other things in it but that was one of the remedies. Chapin Hall: More than 4 acres. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, affect properties more than 4 acres. Chapin Hall: More than 4 acres. Mayor Laufenburger: Excuse me. Okay. Okay. Misters Devaan and Sellers who are apparently are Cheap Thrill Motorsports. Robert Boecker: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Where do they operate their business? Robert Boecker: They live in Chanhassen also. I don’t know their address of their house though. Mayor Laufenburger: Anytime in the last 3 years have they used your property as warehouse for their used parts? Robert Boecker: They, they have had parts there and bikes that they were working on so. Mayor Laufenburger: But have they used your buildings as their quote warehouse? Robert Boecker: I’m going to say no. They’ve wrenched on stuff at my house and. Mayor Laufenburger: Wrenched, what’s that mean? Robert Boecker: Or worked on… 44 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Oh okay. That’s motorcycle jargon. Robert Boecker: Now if they sold something then that was, where they sold it and how they sold it has not, I don’t have knowledge of that. How they do it. Mayor Laufenburger: You have no knowledge of these two good friends of your’s and where they do this? Robert Boecker: Well no, I know that they have a website but as far as warehousing parts and stocking, I don’t have any of that. I have no part of that. Mayor Laufenburger: So there is none of their warehousing business is done on your property. Robert Boecker: On my property, correct. But they do have bikes. They have their race bikes on my property like I said and some of the plastics off of them. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Why do they have their race bikes on your property? Robert Boecker: Because we work on them together. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilman Campion: I have one question. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Campion, yes. Councilman Campion: There, it looks like, looking on Google maps it looks like there’s an additional structure. Something between 1 and 2 to the east near the driveway. Robert Boecker: There is a playhouse over there. Yeah, it’s a 12 by 16 playhouse. Councilman Campion: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: I have one more question and then I’ll, did you have a question Mr. McDonald? Councilman McDonald: I had a follow up. Do you want to do your’s and I’ll follow up? Mayor Laufenburger: Let me do this one. Mr. Hall, you used the words not a home occupation came to an end. Look at your notes. Chapin Hall: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Am I capturing that correctly? Chapin Hall: That’s correct. 45 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: What came to an end? Chapin Hall: The association between Mr. Boecker and the motorcycle guys. In terms of. Mayor Laufenburger: And when did that come to an end? Chapin Hall: In terms of using his address to have an address for the corporation to be wholesale. Mayor Laufenburger: When did that come to an end? Robert Boecker: Shortly after, after the Planning Commission meeting. Mayor Laufenburger: So when it was challenged about regarding you operating a business, it was after that that you brought that relationship with Sellers and Devaan to an end? Robert Boecker: Right because they asked, I didn’t even, you know when they did their search and said you know this address is on there, that’s when I went and talked to them and said you know hey, I understand what you need to do in order to buy wholesale parts but you know obviously I can’t. You can’t have my address you know associated with that so I cut that tie and made it very apparent to them that that’s not acceptable. And that has been changed. So if you. Mayor Laufenburger: Eventually it will show up on the internet. Robert Boecker: Yeah, so if want to go on there and search that, and whatever address they are located at, that will come up but I don’t happen to know it. What that is. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. McDonald, you had a follow up question. Councilman McDonald: Yeah, it’s along those same lines. One of the problems I’m having about all of this is, one of the complaints that we get is you get a lot of UPS trucks. That smells of a business because that’s even more than when you’re refurbishing one or two motorcycles, that you shouldn’t have that many UPS visits. Explain that to me. Robert Boecker: We have UPS. We have Speedy Delivery. Councilman McDonald: Yeah, why are you getting? Robert Boecker: You’re going to have to talk to my wife. She’s an Amazon. We buy everything through Amazon. We get, we probably have the truck there every 3 days we have some type of something that we purchased. Councilman McDonald: Well it can cut both ways. You know UPS could be picking up there also. 46 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Robert Boecker: Well we’re not shipping out of there. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: What’s the, Mr. Hall or, what’s a day shelter? There’s 264 square feet of day shelter proposed. What’s that? Chapin Hall: Yes. Robert Boecker: You want me to answer it? Chapin Hall: Yes. Robert Boecker: So a day shelter is just a three sided, one side open shelter so that when the horses or whatever animals you have are down pasturing, that they have a spot to get out of the elements. The sun, rain, whatever without having to go all the way back up to their stable area. So it’s just basically somewhere to get out of the elements but it’s not their stable. Mayor Laufenburger: So is it possible for you to describe Mr. Boecker where you’re going to have the fence? Robert Boecker: Yeah there’s actually a fence permit and that’s drawn on. Mayor Laufenburger: Is it on one of these? Robert Boecker: Is it on that site plan you have right there? If you turn the camera on I guess I could draw it here. On there and just kind of show you about where it is. Mayor Laufenburger: Does the fence encompass any building besides the day shelter? Robert Boecker: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Our wizard with the cameras is about to show that to us. Robert Boecker: Okay, so this right here is the proposed horse shelter. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah. Robert Boecker: So right here, coming off this corner. Following this property line down here. Actually it is drawn on here. That’s what this dashed line is right here. See this dashed line? Mayor Laufenburger: Yep. Robert Boecker: It comes up and then comes up to the corner of the new hoop house. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. 47 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Robert Boecker: So it encompasses two, two of the buildings but these two buildings have, we talked to Carol about that. About using those buildings and you’ve got two buildings that are extremely hot buildings in the summer. It will exceed 120 degrees in that building so without modifying these buildings, these are not very acceptable structures for horses. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Robert Boecker: And that brings us back up to this building. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so the purple on here is the day shelter? Robert Boecker: Yep, the purple’s the day shelter. Mayor Laufenburger: I think on one of the other slides it shows it down one building. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Robert Boecker: Yeah. Mister, well on one of them Mr. Generous had drawn it down here just kind of guessing. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Robert Boecker: And that’s actually where we’re going to put it. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Okay. Did you have a question Mr. Boecker that you wanted to raise or was that raised already? Robert Boecker: We talked about whether or not, if we disconnected the buildings and only looked at this as a stand alone building, what difference that would make as far as the nonconforming. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Thank you Mr. Boecker. Mr. Hall, did you have anything else? Chapin Hall: Just this. In a perfect world he would have applied for the permit before he did anything and we would have talked about not having an addition onto an already existing building. But we are where we are and I hope you and the council appreciate that and we’re trying to have something that looks nice in the neighborhood and is consistent with what other neighbors have done although he certainly does have more accessory structures than any other neighbor but they were, I think you understand the legal issue. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Chapin Hall: They were all there in May. Tried to go through that and explain that and I think, I think Your Honor and the council has an understanding of the whole situation. 48 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, thank you Mr. Hall. Chapin Hall: Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. Is, let’s see. This is not really a public comment but there’s some new information that came out tonight I think. Is there anybody in the public or anybody present that would like to make a comment of any sort? Okay. Mr. Knutson, I do have a procedural question for you. The question that was raised by Mr. McDonald that brought out your reading from State Statute, is it your suggestion that we, that we interpret that as this is no longer a variance for 1,864 and 264 but rather a variance for a much larger building because of what the builder’s intent is. You understand my question Mr. Knutson? Roger Knutson: I understand your question Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Roger Knutson: You could interpret it that way or you could say here’s what they’ve applied for and deal with what they’ve applied for. On their application which has been through the Planning Commission which is an expansion of that one building. Mayor Laufenburger: So do I interpret that to mean that the council can decide not to bring the legal nonconformance of the other, of the existing building into question. That it would just remain there and we simply act on the additional square footage. Roger Knutson: And you could do that but then they would have to be separated. Mayor Laufenburger: What do you mean separated? Roger Knutson: A separate building. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh because we cannot take an action that is in violation of a State Statute. Roger Knutson: Well, you could grant a variance but that variance hasn’t been applied for. Councilman McDonald: It’s not the variance before us. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Roger Knutson: It hasn’t gone through the process. That variance. So, I’m not telling you what you want to do but I mean you could say for example, you have to have that as a separate building and the separate building, I forget how many square foot it is. Mayor Laufenburger: 1,864 yeah. 49 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Roger Knutson: Yeah. Has to be separated from the existing building and the separation will be determined by the building official. I don’t, there’s a set, there’s a distance requirement between buildings and I don’t recall what it is. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Roger Knutson: You could proceed with that if you chose to and make your decision on whether they meet the standards for a variance. Mayor Laufenburger: But really the only thing we can act on right now is the variance request. Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: So if, if we would be, if we would be willing to consider a variance of an acceptable building separate from this, that would have to be dealt with independent of tonight’s action. Roger Knutson: Right if you wanted to say, we will treat the whole building and grant a variance for the whole building, the existing building, that goes beyond what you’ve been advertised for and what went to the Planning Commission so I don’t think you should be able to do that. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Roger Knutson: But tonight if you chose to you could say, you can have that variance but it has to be in a separate building and it has to be moved at least the minimum distance required by the building code between buildings. If you chose to but that doesn’t mean, the ultimate thing you have to do is determine whether in your judgment they meet the criteria for granting a variance. That’s whatever it is. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Mr. Knutson. Any other questions or comments from the council? Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan. Councilwoman Ryan: I don’t know if it’s Mr. Knutson or Mayor or Councilman McDonald but I just want to be clear. Have we determined or do we need to determine whether or not this is now considered a nonconforming structure or is that what we’re trying to figure out with this building? Mayor Laufenburger: Well I believe, Mr. Knutson do you want to speak to that? Roger Knutson: It’s my understanding what I heard from Kate that the existing building is nonconforming. 50 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Kate Aanenson: That one, well let’s see. As far as whether or not it had a permit or? Mayor Laufenburger: Building number 2 had a permit. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Roger Knutson: So building number 2, is Building 2 as it stands now conforming? Kate Aanenson: That one did receive a permit, correct. Roger Knutson: So that Building 2 currently is conforming? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Well it’s conforming to, it’s conforming that which was in place when the building was built. Roger Knutson: But right now it’s nonconforming. Kate Aanenson: Right. Roger Knutson: And they didn’t get a variance. Kate Aanenson: Right. Roger Knutson: From our current ordinance. Kate Aanenson: Right but now it’s, because it’s over the 1,000 square feet, the 1,000 square feet requirement so they’re adding to that. Roger Knutson: And so right now it’s over 1,000 square feet so right now that building is legally nonconforming. Mayor Laufenburger: Right, legally nonconforming. Kate Aanenson: That’s right. Roger Knutson: Because they don’t have, they didn’t get a variance. They didn’t need a variance but to build it today they would. Mayor Laufenburger: Yep. Roger Knutson: And so today it is nonconforming. Legally nonconforming. 51 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Councilwoman Ryan: And you said that legally they are not allowed to put an additional structure on a nonconforming building. Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Without a variance. Councilwoman Ryan: Without a variance. Roger Knutson: And they’ve not applied for that variance. Kate Aanenson: That was not the hearing we held before the Planning Commission. So it would have to go back to that process. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Roger Knutson: So you could, this is difficult. But you could approve the variance, if you choose to. If you find it meets the criteria and I’m not suggesting you do or don’t. That’s your decision but what they would have to do is move it as a separate building. So the horses would be in a separate building. Mayor Laufenburger: And that building would have to comply with building separation, setbacks from property and stuff like that, correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilman McDonald: Well it would also have to come before us because he’s asking for 1,800 square feet. Mayor Laufenburger: Right, versus 1,000. Now if he chose, if he chooses to make that building 1,000 square feet and that’s all, then that permit would be allowed and he can build that building as long as it’s separate from the building that exists, correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct and under the interpretation of agricultural purposes. If it’s for agricultural purposes, yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Agricultural purposes, right. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. For horses. Mayor Laufenburger: Well, notwithstanding all of the things that keep us from being in a perfect world, the big question for me has been, or the question for me is, is there new information that we now have that the Planning Commission did not have? So that’s one question in my mind. And number two, is there anything flawed or erroneous in the judgment that the Planning Commission applied? And has the Planning Commission considered all the relevant facts. And then lastly is there a compelling reason for the council, or for me and my vote to reverse a decision 7 and 0 to deny the variance. Now I suppose one piece of new information that came forward is the fact that there is an end to the relationship between, at least he has stated, an end to 52 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 a relationship between Mr. Boecker and the other gentlemen who had this business registered at th 610 West 96 Street. So I would think that Mr. Boecker must have felt that at least there was some connection there that he needed to sever in order to demonstrate that he is not occupying, not doing a home business out of any of those buildings so that could be new. I don’t think there’s anything flawed or erroneous in the judgment of the Planning Commission. I think that they, what they did was, in evaluating the Findings of Fact, all of the situation I think, I don’t think there was anything flawed. Has the Planning Commission considered all the relevant facts? I think they have with one exception and that exception is what Mr. McDonald introduced in the form of the adding onto a legally nonconforming building. That, attempting to expand that makes the building, the whole building nonconforming. It would have to come forward for variance and clearly it would have to be approved. So that’s one thing that’s new. Then lastly is there a compelling reason for the council to reverse the decision of the Planning Commission? And those are the questions that I think are before me tonight. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think we’ve spent quite some time tonight investigating this piece of property and what’s going on there. You know are there businesses going on there? Is there agricultural uses actually happening on the property? And those are all legitimate questions I think obviously because they were brought up at the Planning Commission also and by other people but for me it always boils down to with a variance, especially like this is, is there reasonable use of the property right now? You know does this resident have the ability to enjoy life on his property and I just have to say that answer is yes. And so the fact that he would like 4 horses, you know that’s a personal choice that he’s making and that really you know he can obviously, I mean he is planning for it and was building for something like that but that really is not under our realm of trying to decide if that’s a reasonable use or not. And so because of that reason I am certainly going to stand by what the Planning Commission and what their opinion was on this situation. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Any other comments? Could you bring the motion in front of us please. Councilwoman Ryan: Mayor? Mr. Mayor I have a. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan. Councilwoman Ryan: Another question actually. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Councilwoman Ryan: And it’s actually for Councilman McDonald. When you asked about the, to lower the number of horses, was that so then a structure to build another structure or what? 53 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Councilman McDonald: Well no, what that was for was that if you separate the structures you’re still looking at 1,800 square feet. The cut off is 1,000 and what I’m saying is, is are you willing to cut that back down to 1,000 square feet and if the 1,800 is based upon 4 what I said was, well okay maybe at that case it means you can only have 3 horses. You know there are other alternatives to this. Four seems to be an arbitrary number. Councilwoman Ryan: Right. Thank you. So for where I’m coming from is that, is the building issue itself. The fact that it’s a legally nonconforming building and so that makes the whole building nonconforming and if you have the desire to have horses, you stated that you would be comfortable with taking down the addition as it stands today and doing something else and so I too will be denying this variance, variance request and encourage if you have the desire to have horses to go through those next steps to make your, you know build a new building or what, and go through that process with the Planning Commission and the City but at this point I am not comfortable in accepting this variance request. Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Ryan. Anybody else want to make a comment? Councilman Campion: I’ll make a comment. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, Mr. Campion. Councilman Campion: So I had reviewed this while I was on the Planning Commission and was part of that 7 nothing decision. While I do you know encourage residents to use their property as they see fit, this is an extreme use of accessory structures. Just the, you know the square footage and if there was that strong of a desire to have horses it seems that you know you could consider repurposing the rest of this large structure and reorganizing some of your, the stuff that’s stored in there so I’ll be consistent with my previous decision and also be voting against the variance. Mayor Laufenburger: Not required Mr. McDonald but do you want to make a comment? Councilman McDonald: Sure. I need to kind of justify my vote. I am one of the council members who have always voted for the variance request along this street because the residents have come in there and I’ve thought the requests were reasonable for what they wanted to use the property for. I cannot vote for this one because you’ve already got 12,000 square feet. I don’t see the hardship. I just don’t see the need for us to again plop another structure down there and again make an ordinance just pretty much ridiculous. I mean there has to be a line and with me you’ve definitely crossed it. We won’t discuss the businesses or any of those kind of things. I wouldn’t ask anything about repurposing because again all those buildings are legally nonconforming. You can do whatever you want to in them. It’s not my job to tell you what to do in them. However when you begin to add to what’s already there I have to take that inventory into account and that’s what I’ve done. If we were to approve this you’re now up over 13,000 something square feet in buildings. That’s a lot of space. I understand the desire for horses and such but again, maybe you need to make a choice what’s more important the motorcycles and cars or the horses. You talk about the buildings not being in compliance for horses. Well the one where you store your motorcycles probably would be. You probably just need to put some 54 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 insulation in there and do something with the motorcycles so it comes to priorities to me. What’s more important. I think you’ve got enough space on the property to do whatever you want so I could not support adding structure space to all of this and the way that this has been approached I think that yeah, I’m not going to be voting for it. I think you need to go back and do a reboot if you want to come back forward and bring something forward that meets with the ordinances. Mayor Laufenburger: I am, thank you Mr. McDonald. I am so pleased that we allow council comment because Councilwoman Tjornhom brought this home for me and that is reasonable use and as I, you’re right. The building usage, yes there’s some question in my mind whether there’s some home occupation but that’s not relevant. I still have a question in my mind about the sequence of events beginning construction before, or without a permit. The building of Building 4 without a permit. Yeah there’s some questions there but the real question for me is number one, is there a compelling reason to overcome or overturn a decision by the Planning Commission that included a debate and consideration of reasonable use and I think the answer is no. So I am going to make a motion and I’ll ask somebody to follow but the motion that I would make is as follows. That the. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: Excuse me. Todd Gerhardt: Roger has a motion. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Knutson. Roger Knutson: Suggestion. Motion would be to affirm the decision of the Planning Commission denying the variance request based on the Findings of Fact and Decision as set forth in the Planning Commission’s findings. You’re adopting the Findings of Fact and Decision, Findings of Fact of the Planning Commission by reference. So you’re affirming the decision of the Planning Commission. You’re denying the variance based upon the Findings of Fact in, as set forth by the Planning Commission in their findings. Mayor Laufenburger: So here’s my motion. Councilman McDonald: Excuse me a second. There was also another part to that in that the Planning Commission recommended the demolition of the expansion. So if we’re going to follow through with what the Planning Commission had recommended I think that needs to be in there also. Roger Knutson: That’s fine but technically that’s not part of the variance but you’re denying the variance. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Kate Aanenson: That would still be handled through building code. 55 Chanhassen City Council – February 23, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: So the motion that I would make is that the Chanhassen City Council affirm the decision of the Planning Commission denying the variance and enforcing the appropriate building codes. Excuse me, denying the variance and accepting the Findings of Fact of the Planning Commission. Insuring that enforcement of the building codes would be applied to the expansion building that was already put in place and thirdly, that if the applicant chooses to return to the council with a variance for a separate building, that any fees normally associated with that variance application be waived. Can I do that? Roger Knutson: Sure. Councilman McDonald: So that’s your motion Mr. Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: That’s my motion Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I’ll second. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mayor Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the Chanhassen City Council affirm the decision of the Planning Commission denying variance request #2014-33 and accepts the Findings of Fact of the Planning Commission; insuring that enforcement of the building codes are applied to the expansion building that was already put in place; and if the applicant chooses to return to the council with a variance for a separate building any fees normally associated with that variance application be waived. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you staff. Thank you applicant for allowing us to have good debate about this. We have one more item on our agenda this evening. CSAH 61 CORRIDOR: CONSIDER RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDMENTS TO 2030 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CHAPTER 2, LAND USE (LAND USE MAP AND FIGURES 2-1 AND 2-2. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of City Council. This item, as you’re aware, we had a joint meeting at the end of the year, in December to talk about where we were with this process and the Planning Commission did hold a hearing and we had a pretty good turnout at that meeting from property owners and neighbors in the area. Obviously they’re not here tonight but I’ll try to reiterate their concerns. So again the subject area is located along 61. Also kind of the 101 being the main intersect of the, and Bluff Creek Drive being the main east, excuse me. North/south intersect. So what’s driving this project as we’ve talked about is the 101 bridge and then also the upgrade of County Road 61. So we looked at the development constraints. I’m going to go through some of these slides rather quickly. The developmental traits in the area restricted it to less than 200 acres of development so the question was, as the infrastructure being put in place raises the value or the visibility of this property and really to go back and look at the land uses that were put in place to see if they still made sense and look at the appropriate land uses and whether or not we could provide municipal services to the property. So with that we’ve 56