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CC Minutes 05-11-2015Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: 4.3 miles and this adds an additional what? Paul Oehme: 1.4. Mayor Laufenburger: 1.4 so obviously what will be important is the communication to citizens related to when activity is underway and as Councilwoman Ryan asked regarding the closure, obviously that will impact people that are in this area. We just need to do a very good job of communicating with citizens using all the ways you have done in the past so thank you for how you’ve done it in the past. I know you’ll do a good job this summer as well. We have a motion and a second. Resolution #2015-30: Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the City Council adopts the attached resolution accepting the bids and awards the contract for the 2015 Street Rehabilitation Project #15-02 to Park Construction in the amount of $998,317.80. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Resolution #2015-31: Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the City Council adopts the assessment roll for the City Project #15-02, Kerber th Boulevard Street Rehabilitation (Powers Boulevard to West 78 Street) and the attached resolution. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much Mr. Oehme. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. Just wanted to add that we may bring a future agenda item back to you on this. We got such favorable bids on the trail portion that there may be some larger sections in town that we could update and we’re going to work with the contractor over the next month and see if they would be willing to stand behind their price for some of those also. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And you’re thinking of doing that to the extent that the budget allows it, the difference between what the bids were and what’s in the CIP for that? Is that what you’re thinking Mr. Gerhardt? Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Okay we look forward to that. Thank you. CHILDREN’S LEARNING ADVENTURE, 7750 GALPIN BOULEVARD: REQUEST FOR REZONING APPROXIMATELY 14 ACRES FROM AGRICULTURAL ESTATE (A2) TO PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT-RESIDENTIAL (PUD-R), AND SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 33,000 SQUARE FOOT CHILDCARE CENTER, APPLICANT: CLA CHANHASSEN, LLC/OWNER: AMERICANA COMMUNITY BANK. 7 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item appeared before the nd Planning Commission on April 22. They voted 7-0 to approve it. I’ll spend a little bit more time talking about some of the comments they had but the application is from Children's Learning Adventure and they are proposing to do a PUD so you’ll see the ordinance also in the packet and a site plan approval for 30,000 square foot, one story building with outdoor play area and equipment. So the location is 7750 Galpin Boulevard. As you recall previously on this site we had a proposal for an apartment project which you gave preliminary approval to 155 units. We transferred the density over and as a part of that we had to do a comp plan amendment so as a part of that comp plan amendment, besides the office we went for residential so both land uses were in effect. This application is going for the office use and proposing a PUD as a part of that so I’ll go through that ordinance in a little bit more detail. So again the rezoning for the 14 acres from A2 to Agricultural Estates and then Office Institutional and then the site plan. So the PUD ordinance as included in your packet goes to what the intent is and some of, you know some of the concern staff raised with it is the intent of the PUD is to be that transition in sensitive areas so we’ve got the commercial on the one side. We go back to this map. The gas station and then we’ve got the residential homes here. We’ve also pointed out that this area to the north we would preserve. Keep that in preserve as this project proposes too so providing that transition and using the PUD as the tool to create that sensitive transition area. So within the PUD we talked about, and then the uses that would be there. Always intending if this use was to go away what other uses would go within that district so those are spelled out in the uses section and then we also talked about what those setbacks would be from the highway. The Galpin Boulevard and then interior lot lines. As you know there was a high tension power line along Highway 5. That came up in the discussion with the apartments too. So then the building height, the staff had recommended 37 feet. If we looked at what the apartment building was, that was the mid- point of the apartment building. 37 feet. You’ll see in the staff report, excuse me, the cover memo that went to you from updating the Planning Commission’s recommendation. We gave you a summary of some of the other heights around that area. The Planning Commission you know had talked about 50 but also supported looking at the 45 so this is one of the taller single story buildings in the area. I know it was brought up that Paisley Park is tall. That’s, this building is only 70 feet back. Paisley Park’s about 170 feet back from Highway 5 and this would be taller even than the three story office building at Lifetime. So that was the concern that staff had regarding the single story height and so we had recommended 37 but we would acquiesce to the 45 that the Planning Commission set kind of for you to visit you know as a potential so the applicant has shown a 45 on that too. Again looking at the purpose of the PUD and that transition and then we’ll talk a little bit more about some of the, that higher part where it has the lighting. Again the material and designs meets the city ordinance and then we’ll talk a little bit about access in a minute. So this is the site plan itself. So if you look at this area here, this is the taller part of the building. One of the concerns that the staff had was regarding, even if you look at the gas station lights that are 30 feet, this is high. There’s no specificity regarding illumination. How long it will be lit. Again this would be the lightest thing going down Highway 5 so that was just some of our concerns and that still hasn’t been addressed as far as the limitations of that. I mean that’s lit all the time and what the lum’s. We did amend our th ordinance because we did have some problems with some of those businesses, even on West 78 that had very bright neon that we received complaints from neighbors on that so we just want to make sure that that doesn’t become a neighborhood concern or for some maybe the people that live behind won’t notice it but people across the way may become an issue. So with the site 8 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 itself they meet all the setback requirements. You have the outdoor space that go with the facility. Again the daycare and then they do have potential for, so this is Galpin. This is West thth 78 Street. Main access coming in off of West 78 Street. And then potential for another building out front here under the PUD you could put another building on there so that is additional potential. And this is another drawing of the, another illustration of the site plan itself. Kind of more from a western perspective. So again here’s the parapet at 50 feet and it’s again staff is recommending the less than that and then different heights of the building. Again this is a one story building. It’s probably the tallest one story building we have in the community of that type that’s non-commercial. I mean that’s not industrial. So here’s the 50 foot illustrative. So this is the area where the lights would be in this, it’s hard to see my little red dot there. That middle round part rotunda where we don’t have a lot of specifics on again. The illumination. Hours of illumination and that again just want to make sure that we address that so it doesn’t become a problem later. Or put conditions and such so here would be at the 45 feet. Again one of the taller ones we would have. So here’s materials and colors. Again it meets the city ordinance on that. As you can see from the drawings previously those colors. Articulated building with fenestration. Windows and then again articulation. Some more details on the site plan itself. You can see more clearly this lot to the north. And that would come in at a future date. Again access coming in off of Galpin. They did do a traffic study on that and one of the concerns that the staff had originally would be the right turn movement. The free right coming out and then people being able to take this left turn in. That was very important to them. They worked with the County. They do need a County permit on that. It’s our understanding the County working through the designs of that would be amenable to that creating for the circulation for the site. There is, it does meet the parking standards, which is about 100, just slightly over. 96 was required and they’re slightly over that over 100 so it meets all the parking requirements but again the front door’s on this side so, because they’ve got the fence so you’re coming around to the front of the building so we were just, obviously they’ve done this before but it’s a lot of circulation around that side of the building with that many students in the building. That was our first shock when we saw that they could get up to 300 students which is the size of an elementary so we were concerned about some of the U-turn movements up there which are going to continue to be. That has been a concern of the neighbors up there too so we do anticipate that there still may be some of those people that do the U-turn that want to go back out but with the right turn out it hopefully would eliminate some of those unless you want to, depending on the direction you want to go. Again this is kind of a summary of the street access which I just talked about. I think it was more helpful with looking at the site plan but the traffic summary is in your staff report and I don’t know if the City Engineer had any additional comments he wanted to add to the traffic study. Unless you had questions on that. I think at this point we believe that based on what they’ve told us that they can accommodate that. Again it’s a pretty large amount of trips going in and out. Showed the grading plan. They’re managing the stormwater on site. Again the area to the north will be preserved. That was part of giving for the PUD. There’ll be no development on that north side. Again that was one of the neighbor’s concerns even with the apartment buildings so they’re managing their stormwater on site. th Utilities are to on West 78 so it’s easily serviceable. Landscaping plan, there was a few tweaks to that but that does meet the city ordinance. So with that we would recommend approval of the PUD ordinance with the change that came out in your staff report. We would recommend that you go to the 45 foot as opposed to in the PUD where it states the 50 foot. I’d be happy to answer any questions that you may have. 9 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Ms. Aanenson. Just one clarification. This is an application for PUD. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: This is not a concept PUD. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: This applicant is coming forward with very specifics on what he would like to do, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So this is a PUD process and it’s very appropriate for us at this time to approve or disprove the PUD. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Any questions before I ask if the applicant has any comments. Are there any questions for staff? Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: When I look at the drawing I guess and I read what’s been written about the parapet. I’m trying to understand what’s, you know between 45 feet or 50 feet, what’s really going to make the difference. Aesthetically do you think it’s going to look better? And so it just a height thing because it’s just a height thing or? Kate Aanenson: I think the height thing with the lights and that gives them a lot of visual impact. So the bigger it is with the lights in there gives them visual impact from a greater distance and our point is when it went to Planning Commission, why we recommended the 37 feet is this is a transition. You know with the lights in there is a big visual impact along Highway 5 so our first recommendation was 37 feet. The neighbors at the public hearing, I wasn’t at the public. Based on the Minutes and on staff that the neighbors supported the 50 feet but my point is, if we’re going to do other projects along this corridor, what’s the precedent now you know because we’ve had light complaints in the past. Councilwoman Tjornhom: So but you’re not necessarily concerned about the neighbors. You’re just, you’re just thinking of. Kate Aanenson: Yes I am thinking, I’m thinking of the neighbors. I’m thinking of the general area. When you have something that tall, I mean it’s a one story building that’s taller than Lifetime in that core area. Which really has no use except for illumination. Mayor Laufenburger: Visual presentation. 10 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Kate Aanenson: Visual presentation. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Kate Aanenson: It’s not a functional part of the building. It’s not a elevator shaft or church steeple or something like that. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And that’s why I guess I’m trying to wrap my mind around what’s the difference between 45 feet and 50 if it’s lit up anyway? Kate Aanenson: I would agree with you. Well that’s what I’m saying. Part of it is. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well I’m sorry. I’m being honest. Kate Aanenson: Well I guess, well that’s what we said. Our original staff position was 37 feet. The Planning Commission wanted 50 and asked the council to maybe consider the 45. Our original position was 75 it didn’t need to be that much taller. Again it’s for illumination. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt. Todd Gerhardt: The applicant is, I don’t know if they’re intentionally doing this but staff is looking at it as that they’re incorporating a monument sign within their building is the way we’re interpreting it and if you want to put a monument sign in we have conditions for that so this way they are taking the structure itself and implementing the monument sign into the building. And the difference between 50 and 45 I guess is 5 feet according to the City Attorney. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I know. I know. I didn’t want to say that. Mayor Laufenburger: Is it, did we get confirmation from Mr. Knutson on that? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Roger Knutson: I checked the math Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Listen we just had a $9 million street project. Mayor Laufenburger: No $900 million dollars. Councilwoman Tjornhom: He said $900 million. 11 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Todd Gerhardt: What’s a few zeros amongst friends? Mayor Laufenburger: I expect though when we have, and I’ll give the applicant an opportunity to speak if they’re present tonight and he or she may want to talk a little bit about that. Okay, any other questions for staff? Councilwoman Ryan: Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan. Councilwoman Ryan: You referenced the ordinances that you changed before with some of the other lighting. Was it the signs? Was it lighting their structures? Kate Aanenson: It was on the NIT levels on LED lighting so it was really, really bright. We had a couple signs that were, used that technology so what I’m saying in here is we don’t have specifics on the technology. How long it’s going to be lit? Is it lit 24 hours a day? How bright is in the intensity? I just want to go on the record if this comes out bright. We don’t have a sense, this will be a case study right here. Councilwoman Ryan: So this would be our opportunity to define exactly. Kate Aanenson: That’s my point because you’re putting together the ordinance. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. Councilwoman Ryan: And then in terms of when I was looking through this, traffic is one of my bigger concerns when I look through this project and I know that it was also for when it went before the Planning Commission. How closely will we be able to work with Carver County on that whole intersection? I mean I do look at, like you said 300 students and families driving in. I look at the new Bentz Farm. Just the continued growth on the north side of 5 along Galpin, that intersection I know we recently made some changes just for pedestrian crossing and it’s a busy intersection for cars. U turns, etcetera and that’s probably my biggest. A few other things but my biggest concern is what’s going to be done to that intersection and what influence do we have or how can we impact that? Paul Oehme: Sure. Thank you Mayor, City Council member Ryan. You know we did take a traffic. We did have the developer draft a traffic study and looked at impacts for the intersection th along 78 Street and Galpin and you know there are, there is some increase in the traffic within the intersection and we are estimating about 3 times as many U turns potentially as there are today on Galpin. However you know based upon the traffic study that we looked at, you know it’s within standard traffic engineering guidelines basically. The level of service at that th intersection is not anticipated to change. The level of service along, on 78 Street is not anticipated to change with this development so you know the Carver County has looked at the traffic study. We’ve looked at it. When the apartment complex that was previously proposed for 12 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 this site we looked at that intersection again with that development as well. That had a lot more impacts than what we’re seeing here tonight so we’ll be monitoring that intersection and we, like you had indicated, we did make some pedestrian modifications to that intersection but moving th forward as growth does take place within, along 78 Street or Galpin we will make changes as necessary. You know it’s right now a two way stop along the minor approaches. Maybe in the future we’ll have to look at some other improvements in that intersection. You know we’ve talked with Carver County about roundabouts potentially in the future when traffic warrants it so I think that would definitely help the U turn issue that we might be seeing. Councilwoman Ryan: Because you couldn’t have a 4 way stop that close to a stop light. Paul Oehme: Right. Councilwoman Ryan: The intersection of 5. Paul Oehme: Yeah it’s very difficult because the queuing potentially would impact the operations of an intersection at Highway 5 so roundabouts have been talked about so I think there are some tools that we can look at in the future if traffic were to become an issue and accidents were to be you know prevalent at that intersection. Councilwoman Ryan: And that’s what warrants a change is accidents? Is that how you monitor it? Paul Oehme: We monitor it not just with accidents. We monitor it with growth and traffic. We monitor it with back up’s in the intersection. How much time delays are at the intersection. How much pedestrian we’re seeing at those intersections. All those type of baselines and type of data we look at potentially requests or make modifications to those intersections. Councilwoman Ryan: And just so I’m clear on my concern is because of the timing. If you look at the timing of the drop off, I know the applicant has said that there’s some variation but it’s still going to be a window of 6:30 to 8:30 and you’re pulling from all those homes that are going to Bluff Creek Elementary School and so they’re all going to be coming in at that same time and so again I just want to express my concern with that piece so as long as we’re watching over it. Paul Oehme: Yep, we’re going to be monitoring it especially when it opens up in 2016-2017 so then we’ll see how it goes. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then in terms of different lighting, not the rotunda lighting but in terms of the lighting for the parking lot, sensitivity to the neighbors in Vasserman Ridge and that area. What are the City’s expectations for the lighting and the parking lot? Kate Aanenson: They’ll have to submit a lighting plan because they foot candles that can’t go over the property lines and they have to be downcast so they’ll have to submit a, I’m not sure if that was part of the package but before we’d issue permits on that, that they would meet the City’s ordinance on that. 13 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then my last question for you right now is the, on page, well let me look here. It was on 237 of our report. It was that compliance table. Could you explain the hard surface coverage? The different, the 42 percent versus the 65 percent? Kate Aanenson: 65 is for the whole 14 acres so because they’re doing a PUD they’re able to use that property on the north side so, so it gives them more opportunity to put more hard cover on th the south side of West 78 because they’re keeping the north side green. Councilwoman Ryan: And how does that impact then water management and runoff? Kate Aanenson: Yep, they still have to accommodate that. That doesn’t change at all and that’s what the stormwater ponds are. I’m sorry I’m going the wrong way. The storm water ponds that are accommodating the runoff and any additional building that would be on there would still have to be calculated for. They still have to manage quantity and quality and so that’s how that’s being treated now and the property to the north is just for their hard cover. Not the stormwater so there’s the ponding that they have to hold rate and volume and the other factor is how much hard cover can they have. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And I actually have one more question, sorry. Kate Aanenson: Sure. Councilwoman Ryan: You mentioned it and it was another thing that I was curious about you know and I’ll ask the applicant as well but that Parcel A. And I know we say that it’s going to be preserved. They say it’s going to be preserved. Do we ask to have it dedicated to the City or what has the conversations been? Kate Aanenson: Yeah if you look in the ordinance. Mayor Laufenburger: Kate are you able to find that quickly? Kate Aanenson: No I’m not. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: I have it highlighted. I need to look at it. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan, let’s just hold that and we’ll see. Councilwoman Ryan: We can come back to that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much. Any other questions for staff? Alright at this time I would like to, if the applicant is present I’d like the applicant to join us. Is the applicant present? Would you just step up to the microphone. Tell us your name, your address and, okay. 14 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: Certainly, my name is Mike Clements. I’m from Chandler, Arizona and I’m here with Children's Learning Adventure. Mayor Laufenburger: Great, nice to have you up here from the beautiful metropolitan area of Phoenix so you said it’s Mike Clemmons, is that right? Mike Clements: Clements. C-l-e-m-e-n-t-s. Mayor Laufenburger: Clements, okay. Mike, tell us a little bit about Children's Learning Adventure and what has your interest in coming to Chanhassen. Mike Clements: Well in the past, I’m going to hand one of these books out going this direction and I need one of them back to give to Larry Warner when we’re done so that he can show the homeowners association. These are photographs. Mayor Laufenburger: Did you mean Larry Martin? Mike Clements: Larry Martin, I’m sorry. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Mike Clements: These are the actual, these are actual photographs of Children's Learning Adventure centers that we have across the United States so we’ll use these to illustrate a couple of items and then if you ever met me for a bagel and a coffee I’d get 15 napkins and scribble all my thoughts because I can’t talk with out that so in a minute I’m going to have to steal one of Kate’s pens and draw a few things because I will explain it better if I can do that. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Just a reminder, you may have learned this from the Planning Commission but there’s a camera right above you and it’s not focused on your head. It’s focused on that. There we go. Mike Clements: Okay. So this is the front façade of one of our Children's Learning Adventures and as you can see this is a sign on the inside. It’s not a sign. It’s part of the artwork and I’ll show you that when we get to the interior. It’s under cover so that we’re not, I don’t want to be perceived as trying to fool anybody that that is not in the interior of this building area. I don’t want to try to fool anybody that that is not illuminated so we’ll come back to that any time you want. I’m going to run through a few of these pictures really fast. You can stop me. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, just a moment Mr. Clements. Nann, are you able to display these for our audience at home? Is that correct? Okay, thank you very much. Mike Clements: Okay. Stop me anywhere you’d like me to ask questions. The pages are numbered in the bottom right hand corner and we can always come back to those for reference later. So we’ll skip the summary and there’s some information in here about Children's Learning Adventure that you’re not going to be able to see on the screen. Be happy to leave that book with you. This is Cinco Ranch in Texas. This is the grand opening morning at Cinco Ranch and 15 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 this picture is absolutely consistent with every grand opening we’ve had in the last 4 or 5 years. In fact in Gilbert, Arizona which is the suburb next to where I live in Chandler, Arizona we had 1,230 or 1,250 people show up last Saturday morning to tour and sign up for our grand opening. As you can see and one of the things we’ll come back to, if you’ll notice the back of the building here we have a top of the parapet. It’s fairly low. It pops up on the front façade and then we’ll come back to that so we can reference this picture which is page number 6 if we have questions on the elevations. When you walk into the interior, when you walk into the rotunda feature that we have which is a big, we’ll have a lot of discussion over this. That’s the element of the building that’s 50 feet tall. We want to be really clear. The entirety of the building is not 50 feet. The rotunda is 50 feet. The entry feature represents 17 percent of the front elevation. It represents 8 percent of the total building elevation so we’re not talking about a 50 foot building. We’re talking about 8 percent of the entirety of the building is 50 feet tall. I supplied to staff, and I don’t know if they’re in the city packages or not. I’ve been on the road for a week and so normally staff mailed me the staff report last time but I physically don’t have it. We may have to refer back to it. We did a calculation showing the average elevation, average height of every elevation. It was supplied along with the two, the 45 foot and the 50 foot elevation Bob that had requested. So inside you’ll see that in the after school area we have amenities such as the dance studio. We have a music room where we teach music. We have a dance studio, the classical dance studio. It can also be used for Yoga. We have a bowling lane. It is a real honest to goodness Brunswick bowling lane. We have a cooking school, and a lot of times people say well gee that’s a lot of classroom to dedicate for baking chocolate chip cookies but if you think about it from a curriculum standpoint cooking is counting and measuring and scheduling and it’s a lot more than baking cookies. You can use that to teach a lot of great things and have fun. In the after school area you’ll notice a theme in some of this in the after school area where we have a lot of venues for public speaking because for example if you can’t stand up in front of council and have a conversation like this, you may be limited in what you can achieve in life, and getting your point across is important so we start young. There is an indoor multi-purpose basketball court. Indoor court so it can be used when the after school kids aren’t there, it can be used by the little guys. When the kids come after school when they’re either dropped off by the parents but probably picked up by our buses, they can come into the after school study area and log on to these hatch tablets and do their homework if we’re tied into the school systems. This is the theater in the after school area. This is for the younger kids. This is a television studio that doubles as a multi-purpose room and the idea is, again public speaking. If they can do it when they’re 4 without necessarily being cutesy but learning how to public speak and put forth presentation, then they get to be pretty good at it by the time they’re farther along. This is the math and science lab. The solar system is shown here. It’s built into the ceiling. It drops down and everything is internally illuminated so the sun and stars. The sun, the moon. The whole 9 yards. The art studio is designed and geared for kids from 2 and 3 years old all the way to the after school aged children. This is the reading reef. It’s the library and it’s a place to go for quiet time. One of the things that we do, and I’ll interrupt myself and say this here. Most daycare operators take the children into a room. They let them leave to go out and play a little bit and then they bring them back into that room. If they have after schoolers they bring a 10 year old from the grade school and they put them in that room when the little kids have gone home. The last thing that a 10 year old wants to do is be stuck in a room that has a foosball table rolled into a 2 year old room so you’ll notice as we go through some of this we, and I’ll explain how we rotate the children throughout during the day so that number one, they stay focused on 16 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 learning. The curriculum stays fun. You don’t have discipline problems and that is how we operate. This is a segregated playground. It’s right inside. When you walk in the rotunda it’s immediately on the other side of the rotunda and this is Imagination Island. It’s a little city. It’s Chanhassen in miniature. It’s a fire department and police department. A bakery and City Hall. And this is really designed so that the really little guys have a place to play and they don’t get run over by the older children. That’s what that’s for. This is a picture of our infant rooms. This is an, and then these progressively get older so these are 1 year olds. These are 3 year olds. There’s the 1 and 2 year olds in the prior. This is the outdoor area of Cinco Ranch just to show you what we build on the outside. All of the exterior playground is rubberized playground material just like you’d put in your city parks. The idea is there are no muddy holes to come home and explain to mom that you were playing in the mud. There’s no dragging mud through the interior of our space. We have a baseball diamond, and I know that the Chanhassen site here has plenty of room for these so what you’re going to see is a baseball diamond. A soccer field. A basketball field. A tennis court as well as the playground equipment with the shade structures for the larger, the older children and then the younger children. This picture is for the older children. This I believe is for the smaller children. This is security at the front door. We require that every parent, unlike the grade school where grade schools have queuing and you can pull in and sort of tell the kids to tuck and roll and you throw them out as you’re driving along. You physically have to park. Bring your child in and sign them in. You have to physically park. Go in. Sign your child out. We are very big on security and we’re very big on risk mitigation. These are a photograph of the hatch tablets in the library. They can take proprietary software and they also can tie into the school system. So that in a nutshell is, there’s more information in there. I’ll leave one of those with you. I do need to take one home and I do need to leave one with Larry. Any questions? Mayor Laufenburger: Anything else you wanted to say or would you stand for some questions Mr. Clements? Mike Clements: I’m fine. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Any, thank you very much for that presentation. Can you just clarify for us, how many CLA, may I call them CLA? Okay. How many CLA’s do you have currently in place in the country right now? Mike Clements: I’m going to ballpark and I’m not being evasive. I’m just, we’re moving fairly rapidly. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mike Clements: We have approximately 20 to 25 open. We have 20 to 25 under development and we probably have 75 that we’re working on for real estate acquisitions. Mayor Laufenburger: And where would you classify the Chanhassen? In the second group on development or in real estate acquisition? Mike Clements: I’d say, they’re clearly not open. I would say acquisition, pre-development. 17 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Mike Clements: So you’re in that group of 100 that. Mayor Laufenburger: Not yet in place. Mike Clements: Right, and when I say 25 I mean 25 CD’s in for, construction documents in for building permits or handing the keys to the operations people. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And of those that you have in place that are operating right now Mr. Clements, what’s the oldest or the, what has been in place the longest? Mike Clements: Okay let me give you a little bit of history of CLA and that’ll encompass that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mike Clements: We’ve been in the daycare business for about 15 years. Maybe 20. We’re a private owned company owned by a brother and a sister. We were one of the largest Tutor Time franchisees in the United States. We were probably the largest by volume in any given store. I don’t have factual data but I can tell you that we were very good operators. We sold that business back to the franchisor. Mayor Laufenburger: So the Tutor Time products that the brother/sister operated sold back to the franchisee? Or franchisor? Mike Clements: We were the franchisee, correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Mike Clements: We wanted to, our Tutor Time’s just kept getting nicer and nicer and nicer and the franchisor kept saying that’s not the standard, but it filled the building and the parents liked it and the kids liked it and so what we did is we made a strategic decision to sell that business back to the franchisor and start from scratch our own brand. And these were ideas that Rick and Cheryl had, that had been gelling and improving over about a 15 year period so you’ll notice if you look at our web page you’ll see some older buildings that quite frankly aren’t as nice as this. Those were properties that we owned when we sold the franchise. Sold the Tutor Time’s back but they didn’t buy our real estate so as we started evolving through, you’ll notice in Nevada and Arizona particularly you’ll see the older buildings and then in Texas and Georgia, Colorado you’ll see the newer buildings. So Chanhassen, so we’re about 6 years into this evolution of CLA from scratch. Mayor Laufenburger: So the Tutor Time’s were sold back to the franchisor about 6 or 7 years ago? Mike Clements: Correct. 18 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Is that right? And so what CLA is really, it’s the high end Tutor Time that Rick and Cheryl wanted to product. Tutor Time wouldn’t allow them because they weren’t matching so they decided, we think that Tutor Time, a better Tutor Time. There’s room for a better Tutor Time. Mike Clements: Clearly. Mayor Laufenburger: Say that 3 times. So okay. And where are Rick and Cheryl located? Mike Clements: We’re all in Phoenix, Arizona. Mayor Laufenburger: All in Phoenix, okay. Alright. Let’s see. And a reference was made to when you would likely open. Assuming you were to receive the approval tonight, when do you see ground breaking and when do you see grand opening of that beautiful 1,250 people showing up like you did in Cady, Texas. Mike Clements: Well there were 1,198 in Texas and 1,200 in Gilbert so good numbers and we’ll have hopefully more than that here. Mayor Laufenburger: We’d like to set a record. Mike Clements: Well we’d like to help you. Okay to answer your question, a summary version of that is, we have a kick off meeting for our building construction documents last week. With me is Alan Catchpool with our civil engineering firm. He’s here from Minneapolis. CEI Engineering and we’ve had the kick off meeting for the construction documents meaning blueprints and our plans are 3 times as thick as everybody else’s as you can imagine because the finishes are higher end and the complexity of daycare is just more than complexity of a retail building. Mayor Laufenburger: So you’ll break ground when? Mike Clements: As soon as we can get a permit. So I suspect we’re 60 days to draw plans and we’re probably in the city of Chanhassen 60 days to get a permit so snow and weather permitting we’d like to start this year and open next year. Mayor Laufenburger: Next calendar year or next to beginning of next school year? Mike Clements: I believe if we were a year from today we’d be about, that would be a little optimistic by a couple of months. It takes about 10 to 11 months to build. Completely build and hand over so. Mayor Laufenburger: But I’m sure your marketing program would be that you would want to take advantage of those families that are making decisions about where they send their kids beginning in like August-September timeframe I’m sure. 19 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: That’s correct. It is not optimal to open in January. Mayor Laufenburger: Not in Minnesota in January, that’s right. Okay, let’s see. Council any questions of the applicant? Councilman Campion: I would like to hear more about the parapet and lighting plans. Mayor Laufenburger: So let’s speak to the parapet. The height of that parapet. Mike Clements: Okay. I did a little bit of, I’m going to move this. I had previously provided staff a spread sheet showing the differences in the building heights between the 45 foot and the 50 foot. This is a drawing, this may be a little tight here. These are the drawings for the apartments that were, and I’m using this for reference only. Just to paint a mental picture of 45 and 50 feet. This is the apartment complex that was approved previously and it has a peak height on the roof of 47 feet. Midway, and this is. Mayor Laufenburger: Wait a minute, you’re looking for approval tonight and you don’t have a pen with you Mr. Clements? Mike Clements: Well I almost took the one from Starbuck’s but I gave it back. I just couldn’t steal a pen. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mike Clements: Okay. So the peak height here is 47, I’m sorry. The peak height here is 47 feet plus or minus. The average height that staff is referencing, 37 feet which is right here, is half way through the peak, and I’ll come back to that in a minute. So these were the elevations for the apartment complex. As you can recall it was a backward shaped C and there were literally 10 elevations to that building. So there were 10 different heights and as you’ll notice this is all 47 feet and then it drops down here. There’s not a height specified but it’s somewhere between 37 and 47 so split the difference for grins but as you can see there’s not much of it that drops down. There are very few places. You have it here, here, here, here, and a couple, probably. Mayor Laufenburger: Your point is that this is consistently at that level, is that what you’re saying Mr. Clements? Mike Clements: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mike Clements: So what I did today, and was I ask our architect to take those drawings that I just showed you and overlay our elevation at 50 feet. Meaning the 50 foot rotunda over the top of this and she gray scaled it. Their building behind our building and what she did was their finish floor elevation here and our finish floor elevation here are identical so that the starting point is the same. What you see below this here is the ground tapering off so what I did is, when I was, left the airport and I was headed here this evening I took a Sharpie and tried to help to 20 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 make that a little more visible. I don’t know if that is but I tried to make that a little more clear of what our building overlaid against their building would be. So if we go to this bottom corner and we look, this is the height of the apartment building. It had a 30 foot 8 inch, so 30 foot and two-thirds of a foot plate height. It had a 47 foot peak height and it had an average height of 37 ½ feet but clearly as you can see this distance here is not see through. There’s another 7 feet of roof that exists over most of the building. I wrote 100 percent but as I got back, I looked at it later and I went nah, it’s probably 83 percent. Here’s what we are. Here’s at our 50 foot height what our building looks like. It articulates quite a bit. It’s 28 feet next to the rotunda. It’s 39 feet direct on this sign band here and then it pops up to 50 feet. Excuse me, pops up to 50 feet here from 28 feet here and our height, mid-height if we’re making a direct comparison is 39 ¼ feet. Now that’s for 8 percent of the total building elevation. We take the position that if you push the building down on the front elevation, we can take 5 feet out of the bread. Turn that loaf of bread sideways. Pull out a slice and drop it down. You run the risk, this is a big building. We have lots of kids that will be in here. You run the risk when you compress this down of having a, in Planning Commission one of the members said this is going to look like a, it was either a strip building or an industrial building. We’ve gone to great pains to try to create as much articulation as we can because the building is large. That offsets the height and it really is very minimal. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Clements can you, or better yet Kate, can you tell me the frontage of CLA is planned to be what distance from Highway 5? Kate Aanenson: 50 feet. Excuse me, 70 feet. That’s what the ordinance says. Mayor Laufenburger: What distance was the C-shaped apartments scheduled to be from Highway 5? Kate Aanenson: They were set back further than that. I don’t have that in front of me right now but it was set back a little further. Mayor Laufenburger: 100 feet? Kate Aanenson: But I think the point is what I’m trying to make is, you’re looking at a roof line versus illuminated signage. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Yep. Kate Aanenson: It’s not just the roof line. It’s what illuminated behind it with the sign and other signs on top of the building. Mayor Laufenburger: We get that. Kate Aanenson: So yeah. 21 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: We get that. Mr. Clements, by the way all of us have the benefit of seeing the Planning Commission report. We read the verbatim Minutes so just keep that in mind as you think about saying things to us because we may have heard it already, okay? Mike Clements: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: I think I read Mr. Clements that you would accept or that you could build 45 feet parapet. You could accept that, is that true? Mike Clements: We could do that. We. Mayor Laufenburger: You prefer not to obviously. Mike Clements: Prefer not to but. Mayor Laufenburger: Because your, the appearance or the standard that you have in your other locations essentially replicate this. And by the way I think this is attractive but to Mr. Campion’s second question, how are you going to light it? Mike Clements: I’m going to sound evasive and I don’t intend to be. The lighting in the, the lighting on this project will be absolutely compliant with Chanhassen code. We want to use, we want to gravitate towards LED because of the efficiency of LED. Incandescent bulbs are extremely energy hogs. We’re moving towards LED. We can design that to be consistent with what you desire and I’m the wrong person. I truly did not expect that question tonight but we’ll meet what you need and not, with no issues. But we do want to go towards more modern lighting which is LED and we do want to go to more efficient lighting. We’re talking about exterior building lighting correct? Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Mike Clements: Yes. Councilman Campion: And just a follow up. Mayor Laufenburger: Go ahead. Councilman Campion: If I could. So is there a signage or lighting plan on the parapet? I mean I saw on the other drawings that there was no signage on the parapet or. Mike Clements: There was in the other, we had provided them previously. There will be signage. Our intent would be to put signage on the parapets in these locations with the descriptors of, and I’m drawing it wrong but with the descriptors of what’s inside consistent with the photographs that are shown in the book. Kate Aanenson: Can I just ask a question? Is there a sign inside that, where you plan on lighting up the 17 percent? 22 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: If you go to page. Kate Aanenson: It’s on your cover. Mike Clements: If you go to page 7, and you’ll have to flip back and forth. Kate Aanenson: Can you put that on the camera please? Mike Clements: I’m sorry. Kate Aanenson: That’s inside the illuminated part. Mike Clements: Right. That’s 20 feet. The rotunda is a 40 foot circle. This is 20, located 20 feet inside of that rotunda and it is integral to, it sits right above the entry feature so let me see if I can find a photograph of that. It is visible from the outside of the building. You can see it here. Kate Aanenson: While he’s looking at that. We do have an ordinance restricting how much of the fascia you can put, what percentage you can do based on wall area. I’m not sure that that was calculated for this but that also would fall into the, that lit area for the center part too. Mike Clements: The best picture that I have for you is on page 7. The, yeah that’s the best picture that I have. That’s directly over the sign in counter and it’s in every one of our buildings. It’s that sense of arrival entry feature. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s the primary front entrance to the facility. Mike Clements: Correct. That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, just a second Councilwoman Tjornhom. Did you get your? Councilman Campion: My questions were answered. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay so if I’m going the right direction with this then I’m guessing that the concern is that sign that says Adventure is going to be lit brightly and will be used as kind of not an outside signage or lighting but an interior one that people will see from the outside, if you’re following me. Mike Clements: Correct. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And what are the hours for that? Is that going to be lit all night long? Is that? 23 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: I believe these signs operate until 11:00 or 12:00 at night. The interior’s, but the interior is illuminated all night from a security standpoint. We don’t turn the lights out. We turn them down. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. Kate Aanenson: That’s what my question was and that was the first time I’m hearing this but we’ve raised it from the beginning that there’s some ambiguity there and that’s something we would want to put into the PUD ordinance so there’s a clear understanding of, on both parties what the expectation is. Mayor Laufenburger: So I think Mr. Clements your answer said you believe they turn down at 11:00 but if the City of Chanhassen in our PUD ordinance said we want those lights dimmed at 9:57 and we want them turned up at 5:55, you have the technology to accommodate something like that, is that correct? Mike Clements: We could. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Councilman Campion: But that sign would be visible from Highway 5. Mike Clements: Sure. Councilman Campion: Not the neighborhood behind. Mike Clements: Correct. It’s. Mayor Laufenburger: And my guess is that that sign would be visible only during dark hours. I mean it’s really not going to be visible during the day because sunlight would probably wash out that light. Kate Aanenson: Can I ask too, the other signs are back lit I’m guessing too? Your other signs that are on the, that you drew on the fascia. Mike Clements: Correct. Kate Aanenson: Those would also be back lit too, correct? Mike Clements: Internally illuminated, correct. Kate Aanenson: Yes, so those would also be illuminated all night. I’m just saying you get up higher. You’re getting signs up higher than you would get in a normal office/industrial building. That was my point. 24 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Councilwoman Tjornhom: And do we have a lot of buildings in town that have that where the signs are right on the building and lit? At such a height or I mean I’m trying to think of an example of how it works for us now in town. Mayor Laufenburger: Park Nicollet. Councilman Campion: Or Byerly’s. Councilwoman Ryan: Yeah Target even. Councilwoman Tjornhom: But those are lower I mean. Kate Aanenson: Yeah they’re not quite that high. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And they’re downtown more. Mike Clements: The signs on the exterior of the building are probably no higher, if my parapet height total is a 34 foot average, they’re probably not higher than you would find on a Byerly’s or a Target. I’m thinking out loud here because a Target is a tall building and if our average parapet is 34 feet and you’re below that on the decorative sign bands you might be at the top 30 feet which means you’re going to be somewhere in that range which wouldn’t be terribly different than a Target Pharmacy descriptor or the Target logo. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom yep. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And this building would not be considered the downtown business district, correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And so do we have different ordinances for signage? Kate Aanenson: No. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And lighting. Kate Aanenson: No. They’d be the same. I just don’t feel like we have enough information and to compare it to other ones to put that into the PUD ordinance, the signage. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Because I mean is that the main concern is the signage and the lights? Kate Aanenson: Right. Yeah to say, we do have a regulation on NIT’s. I mean we don’t have anything out there at the LED. Anything out on this part of the city that would be similar to that so. 25 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: I think that expressing my concern about lighting. I would be much more concerned about the lighting that would be visible and potential intrusive to the people who live in Vasserman Ridge and Bentz Farm. That would be much greater concern for me. That’s not to say that I wouldn’t want a, I wouldn’t want the building to glare as people drive by, and face it people who drive by over a period of time, they will become immune to the brightness of that building over time but nevertheless I think it’s appropriate for us to have in the ordinance something that identifies acceptable times of day when the brightest display would be present and then turn down during other times. I just think that makes sense for the character of the city. And if I’m understanding you correctly Mr. Clements that’s something that your technology and your lighting could accommodate. Mike Clements: Certainly. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Go ahead Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: One more question. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s quite alright. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Because Kate you had said that another concern of your’s is setting a precedence for future developments that could be coming in. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Is that something that needs to be addressed so it’s all…same page. Kate Aanenson: In my opinion. I’m just saying in my opinion that the, the biggest parapet out there with the sign is intended to be a sign without being counted towards a sign. So then you’ve got all the other lighting on top of that and I’m just saying it’s double dipping there and with very brightly lit. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And you know I appreciate, I mean you saying. Kate Aanenson: Well I just don’t want somebody to come back later and say how did this happen. I just want to make sure that we’re transparently explaining to you this is what you know is potential. Mayor Laufenburger: It wouldn’t be the only building that is a sign in Chanhassen. Certainly Park Nicollet. Kate Aanenson: Absolutely. Mayor Laufenburger: It’s building that has a sign. Kate Aanenson: Yes. As does Lifetime. Which is back lit. Which is back lit, correct. 26 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: And so there are others that are present but that doesn’t necessarily give us carte blanche to say anybody who wants to do it can do it. Kate Aanenson: Well nobody has. Mayor Laufenburger: We deal with these PUD’s individual, correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mike Clements: Do you have in your package a copy of the floor plan? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mike Clements: Can I see that? So if you, let me find the floor plan. Okay. In your packet you have a floor plan, page A-1. And let me make sure I get that. Okay. So I want to be clear that the rotunda is not intended to hide a sign or in and of itself sneak a sign through. When you look at the rotunda this is, this sign hangs approximately right here. This is the artwork that goes in this portion of it. Just like the artwork that’s in the planetary system in the Laboratory Lagoon. So this is the, you know this is where the old book that I just had, that we just updated, this is where when you bring the children in, you sign them in and then our staff takes them to wherever they go. Wherever their home room is. And so the rotunda this, this on this side is 16 televisions. Closed circuit television screens. This is 16 on this side so that the staff that’s sitting here, 3 or 4 staff can physically put eyes on everything that’s happening in that building and outside of that building. So it’s significantly more than a place to hang a sign. It’s the entry feature which is purposely intended to be the choke point for ingress and egress so that we know every kid that’s coming and going physically can put eyes on them and physically sign them in and out. Kate Aanenson: But my point is that it needs to be 50 feet tall in order for you to do that. To see the kids come in and get the light, the sign up high. Mike Clements: No here’s. Mayor Laufenburger: Now be careful, he said that he could accommodate that with 45 feet. Kate Aanenson: Okay. Mike Clements: And there is a decorative element to this and I’m not trying to hide that. I’m just, I wanted to show everyone the plan how that, how that, why that’s designed the way it is and little more than just a rotunda. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Mr. Clements and I’m not saying that to dismiss you but thank you for taking time to help us understand your, not only the architecture but also the brand. Any other questions of Mr. Clements at this time? Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: What are the hours of operation? 27 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: I couldn’t hear you. Councilman McDonald: What are the hours of operation? Mike Clements: 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 in the evening. Monday through Friday. Councilman McDonald: Are there any evening programs or anything like that that would go on in the facility? Mike Clements: No. We don’t rent our facility to, there’s no weddings. Bar Mitzvah’s. Outside uses. We are strictly daycare, child care, those types of learning endeavors. Councilman McDonald: So really complying with turning the signs down at night around 10:00 would not be a problem then? Mike Clements: Shouldn’t be. Councilman McDonald: And then also this is the front part of your building where the rotunda’s at. Is there any lighting or anything on the back side of the building because that’s by the main entrance where everybody drives in at. Mike Clements: Yes there’s down lighting, and I’ll try to find a picture here in a minute that shows it but there’s going to be down lighting around the building. Kate Aanenson: This picture here. It’s got the different elevations. Mike Clements: Yeah it doesn’t show them. There is down lighting attached to the building and we had previously said that we would screen that lighting so that it didn’t effect the neighbors, including the parking lot lighting would be shielded so that it doesn’t leave the property and bother the neighbors. Mayor Laufenburger: And that would comply with the ordinances. Mike Clements: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: That we would stipulate for you. Mike Clements: Correct. Kate Aanenson: Just be clear Chair, Mayor, members of the council. We also would review, that’s part of the planning check to make sure how the wall packs are mounted and that so with the building permit. 28 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Councilman McDonald: Then the other question I’ve got for you is on the height of the rotunda. Okay you’re saying that you could probably get by with 45 feet. Does that cause an impact and is it a serious impact or is 5 feet really not that big a deal? Mike Clements: If the difference was being here and not being here, we’ll build 45 feet. It’s visual. We spend more money, I can tell you this. We spend more money by probably double than any daycare operator in the U.S. This will be the most expensive building per square foot in Chanhassen with the exception maybe of a medical. If they’ve got nuclear medicine in it. This will be unbelievably costly. But we, that’s part of our plan. That’s, I’m not apologizing and I’m not asking for anyone to feel sorry for us. It’s part of the plan. It’s what makes this work. We put a lot of thought into the architecture and the looks and operationally everything about this. If being here is 45 feet is what you want, I’ll take your 45 feet. If you’ll let me build 50, I’d love to build 50. That’s really the right way for me to address that. I don’t have to have 50. Mayor Laufenburger: Is 50 feet present in all of the other facilities that you’ve built? Mike Clements: It’s present in about half. The ones that you don’t see, the ones that are under construction development tend to lean towards 50. You’ll see all different types of things as we’ve gone through this evolution. It’s about a 2 year from buying the dirt to turning the keys so what you see on our web page a lot of are what I might call legacy or fairly new construction whole bought process. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, any other questions? Go ahead Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I’m not done yet. Then in the rotunda at the top up there, is that lit in any way? Accent lighting around that or is it a clear dome in there so that light would shine up from there? Kate Aanenson: He’s asking the top of the parapet. Is that’s lit. Mike Clements: On the exterior or the interior? Councilman McDonald: On the exterior up at the top. Mike Clements: No. Councilman McDonald: And then at the very top, I don’t know what kind of a roof that is. Is that a clear roof or you know is that something where light would shine up from there or? Mike Clements: From the inside? Councilman McDonald: From the in, it would have to be from the inside out. Mike Clements: No. That’s a regular hot mop. Councilman McDonald: Solid roof. 29 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: Solid roof, correct. Councilman McDonald: Okay. I don’t have any more questions. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan, do you have another question for the applicant? Councilwoman Ryan: Yes please. Could you explain the fence that’s going to go around the facility and what that looks like and exactly where that’s located? Mike Clements: Sure. Kate Aanenson: I’ve got it up on the screen. Mike Clements: Okay. If you, if whoever has the book in front of you it’s on page 25. That’s a 6 foot security fence that goes around the perimeter of the playground so it goes around the perimeter of the playground as you can see here. This is the back side but it will have decorative columns like this. It’s a metal fence that the kids can’t get through. It’s I believe 3 ½ inches on center so no one can slip through on us. There’s no room underneath. It has fire department crash gates which are code for the fire department but as you can see this goes all the way around the exterior of the playground. Not necessarily the exterior of the property. Councilwoman Ryan: And that’s on the west side of the building? Mike Clements: That is on all, well it’s on three sides of the building so it would be your, not the south side. South side is Highway 5 correct? Mayor Laufenburger: Yep. Mike Clements: So it’d be, you’ll have fence on the south side that leaves from the edge of our building to the edge of the playground. Yeah that diagram shows it. So if you can image you’re facing the building. There’s no fence in front of the building but immediately beginning at the edge of the building on the west side and then clockwise all the way around the playground area, back to the east side, front corner of the building. Kate Aanenson: So when you pull up to the parking stall, the fence would be in front of you if th you’re coming in off of West 78. You would be. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Kate Aanenson: The fence would be in front of you here. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. 30 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Kate Aanenson: So you have to come around to this side of the building to come in, is my understanding correct? Mike Clements: Say that again? Kate Aanenson: You have to come around the building to come in. Mike Clements: Correct. Kate Aanenson: So if you’re parking on that side you would come on the sidewalk. Come around to come in. Councilwoman Ryan: Oh gotch ya. Okay. That’s one and then are there plans or what is your thoughts for that open green space on that same, in that same parcel of land. Not on the north th side of 78. Mike Clements: Today I don’t have a plan but it would be consistent with the PUD uses. So you could put in pediatric dentist. You could put in a medical office building. Councilwoman Ryan: Oh okay. Mike Clements: We could expand there later if it takes off. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. th Mike Clements: We currently don’t have any plans for it. Clearly the north side of 78 Street, we’ve already told the neighbors we’ll never develop that so we intend to honor that. Kate Aanenson: Can I give a clarification of where that is on the PUD ordinance? It’s under uses under number 7. It says private or public parcel. Open space is a permitted use and it says th the property north of West 78 Street shall be limited to open space so. Councilwoman Ryan: So when this is put, if this PUD is approved then your commitment to leaving that as open space is. Kate Aanenson: Yeah the only way it could change is someone would have to come back and request a PUD amendment which would require a public hearing before the Planning Commission and your approval. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you. Mike Clements: And we had spoken previously. Kate wasn’t here but we had spoke at the last hearing that we would explore ways perhaps to dedicate that to the City or to the homeowners association and it has a progression there but that’s still on the table. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you. 31 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: Sure. Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions for Mr. Clements at this time? We may have further follow up we might have but thank you Mr. Clements for coming up here and helping us. Now a public hearing is not called for but is there any member of the public that’s present in the chamber that would like to speak either on behalf or for or against this development. You may do so at this time. Just come to the microphone. Would you pull that microphone so it’s, there. Larry Martin: My name is Larry Martin. I live at 7725 Vasserman Trail. I’m not the President of the homeowners association. Mayor Laufenburger: And how many homes do, are in the association? Larry Martin: 84 homes in the total Vasserman Ridge. Mayor Laufenburger: Good. Larry Martin: 38 twinhomes and the rest are multi-family or family homes. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Larry. Larry Martin: Of all the plans that have come forward for this property in the last few years here, this one is heads and shoulders above anything we’ve seen. The fact that the operation hours are 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 in the evening with no evening programs. No Saturday programs. No Sunday programs. It’s just a wonderful amenity I think for that neighborhood. I’ve been, people have been talking about U turns here. The only U turn that I’m aware of is the one people going north on Galpin and then trying to go south on there. I can’t see where anybody using the school would do that. They would do a left hand turn off Galpin. th Mayor Laufenburger: Enter off of 78 Street. Larry Martin: That’s right. That’s right so traffic wise I think it’s great. I think you know the biggest problem we see on Galpin is there’s a 45 miles an hour speed limit all the way down the hill, all the way to the stop sign there so but again the neighbors that I have shown this to are very supportive of it and we would welcome them to the community. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much Mr. Martin. And just related to that Kate, have you received any public comment either, other than tonight, either for or against this project? Kate Aanenson: Just what was received at the Planning Commission. Not other than that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, thank you. I forgot to ask you Mr. Clements on question if I can. How many employees does CLA when it’s fully executed, how many employees? 32 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: You have got me. I have to think about this for a minute because every state licensing is different and Minnesota State licensing. Mayor Laufenburger: Just a reminder, we’d like you to speak into that microphone. Mike Clements: I’m sorry about that. I’m guessing because I’m truly at a loss tonight. I think we’re 56 employees at maximum licensed capacity. Now I sent an email to staff explaining what that means. 52 would be the most employees ever in the building if I remember the numbers right. I gave the numbers to the City. You have to look at traffic and numbers in the building. The fire department’s going to look at them one way. Licensing’s going to look at them another way. They both look at the maximum potential people that can be in that building at any given time. Those numbers are significantly over stated compared to the way the business operates. A third of the building, I’m doing big rough numbers here. A third of the building would be children from infant through pre-kindergarten. Pre-K. 4 ½-5. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Yep. Mike Clements: They will be in that building either a half day or a full day. The specialty rooms sit empty if you will in the morning when the children are licensed in and the before and after school will have a few kids in in the morning and then sit until 3:30 or 4:00 in the afternoon when the school’s empty so even though the fire department may give a big number. 500 people can be in this building at any given time, there will be significantly less than that. 60 percent approximately would be the enrolled and 50 percent approximately from our history in our other centers would be attendants. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So I take in the 50 range is the employees. That would be. Mike Clements: Max. Mayor Laufenburger: A center director. Mike Clements: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Planners. Group heads as well as teachers as well as recreational assistants and stuff like that. Mike Clements: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Thank you very much. Alright, let’s bring it back to council. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Okay, let’s bring this back to council for any follow up questions. Anybody? Councilman McDonald: Are you looking for questions or comments? Mayor Laufenburger: I’m looking for questions but before you make comments I have some questions I want to clarify. Is there a storm pond present today near there? And is that part of 33 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 what we see here? I think there’s a, isn’t there a storm pond just kind of west of one of the power lines Mr. Oehme? Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And is that storm pond visible here? th Paul Oehme: No. Mayor, City Council members. That pond was constructed with 78 Street and the improvements to Highway 5 that facilitates storm water improvements, or cleaning the th storm water off of 78 Street and treating the storm water off of Highway 5 so that’s not associated with this project. That pond is not sized appropriately to handle the runoff from this development. Mayor Laufenburger: Hence two new storm ponds will be added. Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Paul Oehme: And then stormwater would go north. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Let’s see. There was discussion about the County access off of Galpin. That’s the cut in would be a right-in/right-out and while I agree with Mr. Martin, I think th most people would come in 78 Street. There is a cut in there right now. It’s directly opposite the exit from CVS. Does the City have any jurisdiction over that whatsoever Mr. Oehme? Paul Oehme: No, that’s County right-of-way. Mayor Laufenburger: Do you know where that is in the County approval process either of you? Paul Oehme: Preliminary. They’ve looked at it. Preliminarily they’ve approved it. I don’t see any issues moving forward. Kate Aanenson: Correct, they’ll just review the permitting and then creating the deceleration lane and acceleration lane coming out. Mayor Laufenburger: So it may be necessary to cut into that property a little bit? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: In order to accommodate that, okay. Alright. Let’s see. And Councilwoman Ryan asked this question earlier. Just for clarification regarding the north property. While I understand the ordinance says it will remain open, is there any advantage to the City to receive that property as a gift from the property owner? 34 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Kate Aanenson: Well what we’re saying with this ordinance is it has no development capacity at this time so. Mayor Laufenburger: So there’s no reason for it to be gifted or given to the City. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: So it can remain right there and nothing will happen to it there. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: And it may be advantage to them if they do want to build on that other parcel, that they need that for the green space as we were talking about before. For their hard cover so… Mayor Laufenburger: Because you’re counting, you’re counting that space to get to impervious surface is that correct. Kate Aanenson: We can if we need to, that’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Okay. Was there consideration Mr. Oehme given to dealing with the traffic there at that intersection where the U turns occur, was there consideration or can you speak to what consideration was given to remove the exit from CVS and Kwik Trip there? Or has that ever been considered by the County. Paul Oehme: We did have a conversation with the County about that and we did, when the apartment complex was being proposed we did have conversations with the County and others th about you know, changing the access off of 78 Street. I think the problem with eliminating or reducing the access on Galpin for those developments would be to significantly impact the businesses. The gas station and the. Mayor Laufenburger: And CVS. Paul Oehme: And CVS at that location so we’ve talked about it. I think it’d be a big detriment for those businesses though. Mayor Laufenburger: So nothing has gone through on that? Paul Oehme: No. Nothing’s gone through on that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And likely nothing would happen with that unless we saw an incredible change in traffic patterns producing accidents and problems with public safety, is that correct? 35 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Paul Oehme: Absolutely. We would review any and all options at that time. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate this is a question for you and I’m not sure if you’re prepared to answer it right now but I’d like you to maybe think about it. We know that in a PUD there are gives and takes, okay so and one of the things is if the developer is asking for a variance or something not compliant with our existing code we can write that into the PUD but we often say okay. We’re going to give you that but what are you going to give us instead so I wonder if you could, is it possible for you to summarize what modifications the developer would like from our current code if you will. Kate Aanenson: Sure. This is an OI, office institutional zoning district which allows two stories which typically we would say maybe 24 feet. If it was a residential zoning district, medium density the height limit does go higher so that’s why I’m saying we’re kind of comparing two different things there. It’s well landscaped, articulated building. Besides the height and some of the lighting. The signage would still have to fall, follow the underlying zoning district. The office institutional zoning district. Mayor Laufenburger: That would be monument signage. Kate Aanenson: Yep, and wall signs would be, would follow that district so again it’s always th been our goal is the preservation of the north side of West 78 so that was always one of the guiding principles so if we could find a developer willing to say I will concentrate my development on that side of the street. Mayor Laufenburger: But they’re giving us that so that’s not really an outlying request, is it? Kate Aanenson: Well I mean I guess they could try to put some, we’ve had other people try to put some twin homes on there to make some advantage of that property. Mayor Laufenburger: But at least what they’re asking for right now is compliant with our desires which is to preserve. Kate Aanenson: To preserve, that’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. So what I’m hearing so far, and I don’t want to mean to just kind of a summary. So one thing they’re asking for is they’re asking us to adjust the height and they’re also, though they don’t specifically say so they’re asking us to approve their wall signage which is large lettering on the parapets. Or is that compliant? Kate Aanenson: Well we don’t know yet because they will have to follow the OI zoning district. We don’t have that in front of us but whatever that is and. Mayor Laufenburger: What if the zoning for the OI district is, requires letters that are 6 inches smaller than what they’re looking for? 36 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Kate Aanenson: It may. Then they’d have to come back and ask you for either an amendment to the PUD for that or a variance. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay so that still is, that could happen. Kate Aanenson: That could happen, correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Is there anything else that you mentioned the landscaping, does the landscaping comply with what we’re looking for? Kate Aanenson: Yes it does. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. So they’re not asking for a change there. Is there anything with parking? Are they asking for any modifications to parking? Kate Aanenson: No. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is there anything else that they’re asking for that’s different? Kate Aanenson: Don’t believe so. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Okay, thank you for that clarification. Alright. Now let me ask one more time, any other questions for staff or for the applicant? Alright. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt. Did you have a question? Todd Gerhardt: If you’re contemplating in making a motion it would be my recommendation that we direct staff to come back with a revised staff report to make those changes in the ordinance. Just so we’re consistent because with a PUD that ordinance is the direction of how this building could be built and we want to make sure that the developer and staff get the proper information into that so I think there was great feedback on this. We’re still within our 120 day review process but we could bring this back at our next meeting and just make sure we incorporate all those changes into the ordinance so. Mayor Laufenburger: So you’re recommendation would be unless we’re prepared to fully agree with the motion the way it reads, it would be better for staff to, excuse me. For council to direct staff to go back and come back with a recommendation that complies with the consensus that we talked about, is that correct? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah I have concerns the way the ordinance is written right now. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. 37 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Todd Gerhardt: And due to the number of changes that are occurring because that ordinance is what would allow the developer to build the building and we want to make sure that everybody’s on the same page. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So I think the key questions that, and this is not in the form of a vote but what I’m looking for is what’s the direction that council would like to provide relative to the height of that rotunda. Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Correct? Todd Gerhardt: Yep. Whatever more direction you want to give staff that’s great but just wanted to know, give everybody full disclosure on this as we move forward that we’d like to sit down and make sure we’ve got the proper language in there. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And actually Mr. McDonald got my attention first. Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Yeah I just want to make sure because one of the things I’m in favor of is going the 50 foot height. You talk about gives and takes and you talk about the history of the site. The fact that you’ve got a developer willing to give up that north tract I think we ought to help the developer make this a successful venture. Mayor Laufenburger: How do you feel, do you want to express a view about wall signs or signage on the front? Councilman McDonald: Well I don’t know what the ordinance is. I mean looking at the pictures I think we’ve already got things within the city that are about that size but I don’t know. I’d like to have something that would come back and, I mean first of all we don’t even know how big these signs are. We need something, it may fit within the ordinance. If not then that’s probably something we need to look at but. Mayor Laufenburger: It’s certainly acceptable to direct staff to review. Councilman McDonald: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: The developer’s or the applicant’s request against our ordinance. Councilman McDonald: Right and I think as far as the signs on the parapet that would be a good thing to do but if you’re looking for direction to give to staff, I mean my preference would be to allow them to go to the 50 foot height based upon what he showed about how the inside, how integral that is to the success of all this and the fact that again they quit work at 6:30 at night. I mean it’s not going to be that difficult to turn off anything on the inside except for security lighting so that doesn’t put the applicant at any kind of disadvantage so I think we can work with all of that. 38 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. Anything else Mr. McDonald? Councilman McDonald: No, I think other than that I mean I’m glad Mr. Martin is happy with this and that the residents are and I know that they’ve you know voiced several opinions about a number of proposed projects that have rolled through at this particular site and I know it’s been difficult to put something on there so I’m glad we’ve finally come to something that meets everybody’s expectations and requirements. Mayor Laufenburger: Good, thank you Mr. McDonald. Councilwoman Ryan you were next. Councilwoman Ryan: Thank you Mayor. I just had a question for, is it in the ordinance or is it then in the PUD when we move forward with this that we talk about the time restrictions for lighting. We had brought that, had come up. Kate Aanenson: That would be part of the PUD ordinance. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. PUD ordinance, okay. So everything. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, and it’s a PUD ordinance specifically for this PUD, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, council members. I don’t know if Kate or I are getting the direction on what, do you want to have the lights off at a certain hour? I’m hearing different things so if we could get some. Councilman McDonald: If I could. I mean we do it with the Christian Academy down here on th West 78 Street. There were restrictions there on their monument sign as far as the hours so I think we’ve already done this once you know for a particular area to be sensitive to light. We can certainly do the same thing here. I think that one turns down at 10:00 at night. If that’s acceptable you can copy pretty much what’s in there. If it needs to be a little bit sooner then discuss it with the applicant at this point. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, Councilwoman Ryan how does that resonate with you? That timing. Councilwoman Ryan: I think 10:00 is great. I’d support that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Did you have any other comment or question? Councilwoman Ryan: You know when I first reviewed this plan I was concerned about the height and in comparison to some of the other structures that we saw along Highway 5 and so I shared your concern. But then when I see the conversations tonight with everybody here and 39 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 hearing from the applicant when, to look at the difference between 45 to your point, 45 to 50 feet is about as maybe a little shorter than I am so I don’t see the problem with the 50 foot. I agree with Councilman McDonald and have heard from folks in Vasserman Ridge that they are very pleased with this proposal and support something like this in looking into some comments from people that use the facility in Texas and California, they get very positive reviews so I’m comfortable with this company being and this facility being in Chanhassen in a residential area. I think it fits well in our community and I think I’m very excited about having this opportunity to have something so unique as part of Chanhassen so I, as long as we can be very clear with the lighting and mindful and watchful of the road and the U turns that still, the traffic patterns still concerns me. This is something that I can support. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Councilwoman Ryan. Anybody else? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Sure. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’d like to say that I’m sad that maybe this is the last time we’re going to visit this area of town. I’m really hoping so because man, we’ve been here several times before and you know we started, I started out talking about what’s the difference between 45 and 50 feet. But now I think I’d like to talk about just the fact that it’s a really unique opportunity I think for the residents of Chanhassen to have another place to send their children. And while it’s a long building, it did have the possibility of looking like a strip mall, and we all know what we think of strip malls in town. We try to not probably go along with that kind of model anymore and I think they’ve done a nice job architecturally of kind of breaking it up so it doesn’t look elongated and like it has a potential to be a strip mall. I think that it’s a testament to the fact that this room isn’t full tonight to see that the neighborhood feels it’s a good fit for them and that it’s going to be a positive element in the neighborhood and along Highway 5 and Galpin and so I just want to say welcome to Chanhassen. Hopefully it’s all going to work out and hopefully the lighting issue can get resolved because I think it’s going to be, like I said a good thing to drive through town and see on Highway 5. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilman Campion. Councilman Campion: Yes, I also support the rotunda height of 50 feet considering how well this development seems to fit within our guidance otherwise and the allowance of the open space. From the drawings and designs we’ve seen it seems like it will be a great addition to Chanhassen. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Let me summarize I think what as direction to staff, your council supports a 50 foot rotunda and then commensurate would be the plan height of the other parapets as well. I think the only thing that may need to, you may need to come back including in the ordinance would be anything related to the wall signs. The lettering on the signs. You’ve heard 10:00 is a good number. Kate use logic here. If we need to, if it needs to be 9:00 or 9:30 or work with the applicant on that but what you’re hearing is that it is appropriate to take some of 40 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 the brightness off of that building later in the day and then bring it up early in the morning. Let’s see I think that was the clear direction. Todd Gerhardt: Yep, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: And I want to echo what Councilwoman Tjornhom said too, only I would not use the word sad. I’m delighted that we have an opportunity to be part of an addition to Chanhassen that will contribute to what I believe is the character and culture and quality that people have come to expect in Chanhassen and that is quality buildings. Quality businesses. Quality employment opportunities and you know we are known for education. If you know anything about the Minnetonka School District 276 or Eastern Carver County School District 112 you know that these are school districts that are ranked very highly in national standards for education and I think that it seems to me that the mission of Children’s Learning Adventure is consistent with the objective that virtually everybody in Chanhassen has so with that I look forward to seeing from you Kate, this will be on another agenda. th Todd Gerhardt: 28. th Mayor Laufenburger: 28. th Todd Gerhardt: 26, sorry. Mayor Laufenburger: So that would be the day after Memorial Day and at that time we’ll review what you have as a PUD ordinance and we’ll act on it at that time so thank you Mr. Clements. Mr. Catchpool and others. Peter Coyle: Mr. Mayor, can I just ask one question? Mayor Laufenburger: Sure, just step up to the microphone and state your name please. Peter Coyle: Sure. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, staff. Peter Coyle from Larkin Hoffman here tonight on behalf of Children’s Learning Adventure. I have a question and a comment. We understand that all of the signage materials and lighting information has been submitted with the overall application so since the council is going to be bringing this back in 2 weeks our hope is that we’d be able to have lighting issues resolved and signage issues resolved so that when the PUD is approved it’s all encompassed at that time and we just wanted to see if that was going to be acceptable. Okay, very good. Thank you very much. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Coyle. Thank you. That’s your plan as well right Kate? Kate Aanenson: Absolutely, yep. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, perfect. So with that thank you very much and Kate thank you very much for your preparation and your work with the applicant on this. Also thank you Mr. Martin to you and the homeowners in the Vasserman Ridge area that you represent. That concludes item G on our agenda this evening. Now we’ll move to. 41 Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015 Mike Clements: Thank you very much. Mayor Laufenburger: We’ll move to council presentations. We don’t need a motion. You do not want a motion. No. We gave staff direction. Todd Gerhardt: We’ll even be able to put it on consent if everything works out with the applicant. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alrighty. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. None. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Todd Gerhardt: I have one item. I want to recognize Jack Atkins as he was selected as our first Fire Fighter of the Year at last week’s fire banquet. Jack has done a lot for the fire department and very, very active in raising money on the, I’m trying to remember the term. Climb for Cancer I think and so he’s always in the top 1 or 2 in raising dollars for cancer society so Jack is very deserving of the award and great on our volunteer fire department so congratulations to Jack and his family. Mayor Laufenburger: Good. Any other administrative? Todd Gerhardt: That’s all I have. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Gerhardt. Just a reminder, council members as well as the public, our next council meeting be not the fourth Monday. That is Memorial Day but it will be the day after that, Tuesday and though it’s not on the agenda I would just invite the entire community to the annual Memorial Day celebration which occurs at the Veteran’s Monument th area here at City Center Park and that will be at 12:00 noon on Monday, May 25. There’s always great representation from the American Legion. I understand the Chan-o-laires will be there so it will be a great, another great example of small town America here, right here in Chanhassen. CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. None. Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 42