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CC 2015 07 27 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING JULY 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Laufenburger, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman Tjornhom, Councilwoman Ryan, and Councilman Campion STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Chelsea Petersen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Greg Sticha and Roger Knutson PUBLIC PRESENT: th Jim Slattery 19900 West 78 Street Joan & Terry Demeter 8203 Marsh Drive Tony Chesak 1983 Sloan Place, St. Paul Chris Sommers 1231 …Lake Road, Mendota Heights Ruj Schall 1130 Dove Court Celeste and Ray Schenk IV 1130 Dove Court Roger Downey 7200 Jupiter Renee Anderson 9380 Kiowa Trail Ron Tarvin 8776 Lake Riley Drive Steve Fredricks 8997 Southwest Village Ron & Jan Zaczkowski 8660 Powers Place Mary Ann Carr 8547 Powers Place Bonita Clausen 18376 Evener Way Brian Schmit Austin Zabeli Rollie Neve 7635 Nicholas Way Bruce Marengo 8150 Marsh Drive Karey White 2823 Coach Place Cynthia Witteck 8799 Lake Riley Drive Kelly Morlock 2325 Boulder Road Henry Gallaher 215 Lakeview Avenue David & Susan Hendrickson 22 Riley Ridge Greg Krauska 2209 Lukewood Drive Maren Christopher 7311 Dogwood Road Linda Zaborsky 2940 Highwood Drive Sue Quickstad 2950 Highwood Drive Jeff Sandefur 2340 Harrison Hill Court Caroline Camp 7241 Sierra Court Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Connie & Roger Chapin 195 Highland Drive Shelley McAndrews 888 Kimberly Lane Molly Ambrose 1421 Lake Susan Hills Drive Jeff Olmscheid 990 Lake Susan Hills Drive Dick Grones 6200 Virginia Avenue No. Chris Johnson 6970 Nez Perce Drive Lela Clausen 8387 West Lake Drive Lisa Arrington 870 Lake Susan Hills Drive Jan Lundquist 8705 Mary Jane Circle Bonnie Nelson 8399 Rosewood Drive Cindy & David Staloch 8683 Lake Riley Drive Brian H. Burdick 600 Market Street David Howe 400 Santa Fe Trail Mark Stoltman 15919 Cedar Ridge Road, Eden Prairie Jason Kleinprintz MGM Chanhassen Dan Keyport Dolce Vita Wine Shop Rachel & Steve Prosser 1475 Knob Hill Lane, Excelsior Kelly Audette Summerfield Drive Nicole Joynt 9113 Sunnyvale Carrie Neubauer 8603 Lake Riley Drive Lisa Patrin Parley Lake Winery Judy Anderson 8584 Flamingo Ann & Chris Duppler 9174 Springfield Drive Matt Hanna 8863 Lake Riley Drive Suzanne & Jim Franklin 8735 Lake Riley Drive Dorothy Downing 7200 Juniper Avenue Joni & Mike Courchanine 900 Lake Susan Hills Drive Mark Kiesow 881 Lake Susan Hills Drive Mike C. Matt Hudnut 420 Summerfield Ed Vigil 550 Lake Drive Jan Jackson 4165 Lake ridge Road Martin & Kim Schaeferle 1111 Dove Court George Prieditis 7401 Frontier Trail Steve White Roturlacon Don & Nancy Cardwell 8410 Rosewood Drive Kate McGwire 7973 Autumn Ridge Lane Cathy Anderson 2904 Spy Glass Drive th Curt Robinson 202 West 77 Street Phil Lombardo 7278 Fawn Hill Road Mike Clausen 8381 West Lake Drive Stan Stanek 17 Riley Ridge 2 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: INVITATION TO NATIONAL NIGHT OUT, TUESDAY, AUGUST 4. Mayor Laufenburger: Good evening and welcome to this council meeting. To those present in the chamber as well as though who may be watching on Cable Channel 8 at home and also for the record all members of the council are present tonight. First of all I would like to make a public announcement. Chanhassen, the city of Chanhassen will be participating in the National th Night Out on Tuesday, August 4. The Chanhassen fire department, the Carver County Sheriff’s office along with city officials and staff will be visiting block parties from 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Now National Night Out is the ideal event for gathering neighbors. Ideal because this program is meant to be a neighborhood party but also ties in the public safety aspect by reminding residents how they can help to maintain safe neighborhoods. Studies show that neighbors who know each other are more likely to look out for each other, consequently safer environments to live and to raise families. This night especially also gives city officials and law enforcement a chance to get out and talk with citizens. I would like to invite residents to set aside this night to spend time with your neighbors. And last year if I’m not mistaken Mr. Gerhardt we did over 50 National Night Out neighborhoods, is that correct? And you can still register for Chanhassen’s event by calling our public safety liaison, Beth Hoiseth and her phone number is 952-227-1610 or simply call city offices and our receptionist will direct you to Beth Hoiseth. National Night Out, great event for the entire community. Let me first deal with an agenda item. Council members are there any modifications to the agenda for this evening’s meeting? If not then we will proceed with the agenda as printed. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Campion seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations: 1.Approve City Council Minutes dated June 22, 2015 2.Receive Planning Commission Minutest dated July 7, 2015 3.Receive Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated June 23, 2015 Resolution #2015-43: 4. Resolution Accepting Donation from Klein Bank for Senior Center Lifelong Learning Program Resolution #2015-44: 5. Approve Easement Agreement with Xcel Energy for City Property PIN No. 251790030 (Bluff Creek Preserve Area Located West of Lake Drive West). 6.Well No. 15 Improvements: a.Approve Xcel Energy Underground Service Contract for Power Extension b.Approve Change Order for Associated Improvements to Meet Department of Health Review 3 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 7.Deleted. Resolution #2015-45: 8. Powers Pointe: Approve Resolution Accepting Sanitary Sewer Improvements 9.Resolution #2015-46: Approval of Resolution Amending the Metes and Bounds th Subdivision of Lot 3, Block 2, Moline’s Addition, 2061 West 65 Street, Applicant: John Brudas/Owner: John Corey 10.Resolution #2015-47: TH 101 River Crossing: Approve Resolution Extending Temporary Work Hours 11.Resolution #2015-48: Approve Quote for Rice Marsh Trail Replacement from CSAH 101 to Eden Prairie City Limits 12.Resolution #2015-49: Approval of Resolution Accepting a $12,155 Donation from the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community for an Auto Pulse Device for the Fire Department All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: TOUR DE TONKA UPDATE, TIM LITFIN, MINNETONKA COMMUNITY SERVICES. Mayor Laufenburger: Let’s begin, we have with us, I would like to invite Tim Litfin to the podium if you wouldn’t mind. If you can make room for Mr. Litfin. Tim as a perennial visitor to Chanhassen City Council. He’s significantly involved in the Tour de Tonka so Mr. Litfin, welcome. Tim Litfin: Good evening Mr. Mayor, thank you very much. Council members. City staff. Community members. Thank you for having me here tonight. I’m here to talk about Tour de Tonka. A bike ride that proudly comes through Chanhassen every year. It has since year one and this is our tenth annual Tour de Tonka event. It’s happening this Saturday, just a few days from now. There’s a noise maker going around for everyone there to chime in whenever you feel free. Sorry everyone, I only have like 7 of them. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. Tim Litfin: Might have another one in here. I’ll talk about Tour de Tonka in the past and then move forward to this year. I know you have a busy agenda so I’ll go quickly. Mayor Laufenburger: Take your time, we want to hear about this. You have a lot of potential candidates here. 4 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Tim Litfin: Yes, how many riders out there tonight? I saw one shirt out there. Mayor Laufenburger: Great. Tim Litfin: Thank you. I’ll go forward here. This is what happened last year for Tour de Tonka. There were 6 different rides to choose from and the ridership that was in each one of them and last year proudly everyone but one came through Chanhassen. It will be the same this year. Five of the 6 rides this year will come through parts of Chanhassen in a big way. Participation in the 9 years prior to this year has gone in one good direction and that’s up and that’s thanks to a good cooperation and collaboration with great cities like Chanhassen. City staffs like Chanhassen. Sheriff’s departments like Carver County. It’s been fantastic with all of those people and more and you can see what the ridership has been. Last year 3,100 riders took place. They came really from all over last year which was outstanding. It’s no longer just hey I heard there’s a ride next door in our town next door. Now it’s statewide. Midwest wide. United States wide which is pretty cool and they’re coming for the ride. Legacy riders, we celebrate all riders with this event like we should, like we always do but in particular those that have been with us and riding since year number one and you can see that number right now stands at 75. Of course it’s only going to go one way but it’s kind of fun to celebrate those folks. Chanhassen every year is top 2, 3, 4, 5 in ridership and again last year they were number 3. Down just a tich from number 2. Somehow Minneapolis got in there. I don’t know what happened. I apologize. We’ll see if we can’t fix that this year Chanhassen and move you back up there where you belong. Top 40 participating communities, I’m sorry some of you can’t read that in the room but the ridership is really grown east as well as around us on the west metro and there’s a lot of communities out state that are on that top 40 list which is pretty cool. You’ll see Rochester down there and really that ebbs and flows from probably 30 on down each year and we’re more and more east metro as well as west metro and it’s pretty cool to see those numbers change. Demographically, I don’t know what’s in this room but it’s been a male two-thirds event and that’s okay but we’ll see what happens this year with the ridership. Breakdown here by last year demographically, anybody who rode what and the 100 mile ride was the most popular last year, although there was ridership in each one of those categories from all over the place which is also very cool. We raise funds, whatever we can for the ICA Food Shelf as well as some youth programming and that’s pretty cool. The ICA Food Shelf sees this as their biggest awareness gatherer throughout the year and so thank goodness to them and thank goodness to all of you who helped make that happen. As I mentioned the Carver County Sheriff’s, they are fantastic with supporting this event as well as other efforts and there’s the leadership board there. One of the Minnetonka PD up there having a little fun with me before the start last year and riders this year can choose between 6 different rides and there they are. 16 all the way up to 100. Mayor Laufenburger the 100 has got an opening yet in it, just so you know. Mayor Laufenburger: I’ll see if I can recruit somebody for that. Tim Litfin: Always quick. Good for you. Cities that we travel through, they’re listed there for you and of course proudly and thankfully again Chanhassen is an awesome partner and we thank you very much. There is all of what is and will be Tour de Tonka this coming Saturday with the routes. They’re in 3 counties and 23 or 24 cities and all over the place and that’s kind of cool and that means support has to happen constantly and throughout those areas and we collaborate 5 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 with a lot of partners and we try to know where every little bump and pebble in the road is to make it a safe travel for everyone. And going back to that effort I want to really thank public works here in Chanhassen because they do a fantastic job for each of you as they do for this event. Making sure that the traveled road here in Chanhassen is a nice level place for everyone. Rest stops are throughout the area full of all kinds of entertainment, food and drink. Non- alcoholic of course. This is a fun ride. Sponsorship, every good event happens with good sponsorship. This is no different and you can see some of our sponsors there listed on the board. T-shirt that most of you will be wearing after Saturday is right there. Come and get it, and volunteerism, we had over 500 people involved in this event as a volunteer effort last year. It’s a major event. It’s not just a little ride around the community and we want to hand hold and celebrate the ridership and we can do that because of great volunteers and so if anybody out there doesn’t want to ride, come on and join us TourdeTonka.org and we still have a few spots and we’ll find one for you if you’re interested. A little photo album. Last year we celebrated a couple that wanted to get married up on the upper left. They met oddly one year prior at the start line just rubbing elbows with each other. Not knowing each other prior. One year later they wanted to get married at the event and it was about a 5 second ceremony and that was what they wanted. And that’s all I could give them so we didn’t delay anyone that day so it was kind of fun. A few more photos from the event. We have a National Anthem every year. Last year a young man played the trumpet for the National Anthem. Some more fun photos there and the st event is happening this Saturday, August 1. Starts at Minnetonka High School and there’s still opportunity for anyone out there to ride and/or volunteer so thank you very much Mr. Mayor for the time tonight and if there’s a question or comment I’d be glad to entertain. Mayor Laufenburger: Any questions of Tim Litfin? Tim, how do people register? Tim Litfin: Tourdetonka.org and they can register all the way through Saturday morning as well as in person Saturday morning at Minnetonka High School. Starts at 7:30 a.m. so you want to register, get up there bright and early and we’ll take care of you. Mayor Laufenburger: And are you looking for volunteers to assist as well or? Tim Litfin: We still are yes. If anybody out there wants to help in that effort, that’s awesome and we’ll take you and if you don’t want to volunteer, can’t ride or volunteer, just come and see the start. It’s a massive, fun, entertaining event. Mayor Laufenburger: And where is the start? Where does it all begin? Tim Litfin: Front door of Minnetonka High School for the 16 through the 77 mile riders and this year we’re moving the 100 mile riders to the Minnetonka Community Ed Center… Mayor Laufenburger: Okay and what is that address that I need to show up at, that 100 mile thing? Tim Litfin: I’ll register you and I’ll let you know Mr. Mayor. Love your interest. Thank you very much. 6 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Well Tim thank you. We’re delighted to be part of this event in the southwest metro area and pleased that people get a chance to ride through our community so thanks again and I’ll keep this under wraps for a while okay. Tim Litfin: I haven’t heard any of them. Thanks again Mr. Mayor and again Todd and Todd and the other city staff, well done indeed. It’s fun to work with you people. Thank you. Have a great meeting. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much Tim. Thank you. PRESENTATION OF $12,155 DONATION FROM THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY FOR AN AUTO PULSE DEVICE FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, GREG HAYES. Mayor Laufenburger: Now we have a presentation of a donation from the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux community. Chief do you have that? Chief Don Johnson: I do. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Chief Don Johnson: Mayor, council, Fire Chief Don Johnson. Each year we look for grant funding for special projects and things going on in the fire service and I’m proud to say that we found a local partner here. Here to present us with this donation is the Director of Public Safety for the Mdewakanton fire department along with Nathan Crooks from the fire department. Mayor Laufenburger: Good, we welcome. Greg Hayes: Thank you Mayor, Todd. Some of you I remember from my days in Chanhassen so I was just a little history is I was previously on the Chanhassen fire department for almost 15 years and gave Todd, if he’s got any gray hair I helped start that a long time ago. It was 7 years but real quick, the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux community annually has a donation giving program. Annually they give around $20 million dollars away to local communities. Tribal nations. This year Nate Crooks, one of our tribal members who’s also on our, within public safety came up with an idea and the idea was let’s give away $350,000 into public safety across the state of Minnetonka which sounded really cool at the time and this should be really easy. After 100 applications requesting $2.5 million dollars. We had to whittle that down. We whittled it down to actually $535,000 of which Chanhassen was one of the recipients for just over $12,000 for an auto pulse machine. Those of you that don’t know what an auto pulse machine is, it is something that does automatic CPR and has a direct correlation to saving people’s lives and many agencies around are putting these on the trucks and I know in Chanhassen right around Christmas time you had a cardiac arrest save with one of your auto pulse machines so it’s our honor to give you the check for $12,000 to help further your safety of the community in Chanhassen and all the great work that the fire department does. So thank you. 7 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Well thank you on behalf. (Applause). On behalf of the community of Chanhassen and the fire department we thank you very much for this award and I understand that this award will, it will be matched by a partial match with Chanhassen fire department is that correct Chief? Chief Don Johnson: Correct Mayor. We’ll match up to the full purchase price. Mayor Laufenburger: And is this an auto pulse that we have in place right now or is this a new device for us? Chief Don Johnson: Mayor, yes it is. We have one at our Station 1 here on a rescue truck. This will be to supplement Station 2 in that area of Chanhassen with an auto pulse machine. Mayor Laufenburger: Wonderful. Well we appreciate the grant and again on behalf of the City of Chanhassen we thank the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux community for this. Thank you. Chief Don Johnson: Mayor, could we have you come down for a picture maybe? Mayor Laufenburger: Sure, absolutely. Alright, we have another visitor with us this evening. I’d like to invite the President of the Chanhassen, Rotary Club of Chanhassen Greg Krauska. You have some comments that you would like to make. Welcome Greg. Greg Krauska: Good evening Mr. Mayor, council and staff. On behalf of Chanhassen Rotary I want to say thank you. It’s because of the support of city staff, fire department, county staff that rdth we’re able to have such a terrific celebration on July 3 and July 4 and so things like the July rdth 3 Rotary Beer Garden. The Taste of Chanhassen and certainly on July 4 the Chanhassen Rotary parade is because of the cooperation, close partnership we’ve enjoyed throughout the years with the City of Chanhassen that we’re able to produce such a terrific series of events. In addition to putting on a fun celebration and having a lot of fun with everybody who comes from th miles around to celebrate the 4 and the holiday, it’s also an important fundraiser for us and so in addition to supporting some local things like the parade itself, we also do a variety of international and local things such as disaster relief. Most notably Nepal in the past year. We also support some job training and scholarship programs in Peru. As another example we’re also actively working on polio eradication. There have been some great milestones announced just this week on that front. Locally we’re doing a number of scholarship programs for both high potential, high performing kids as well as kids who struggled through school and have worked with our mentorship program. We’ve also built some buildings out at Camp Tanadoona. You might see the Love Inc furni-share van roaming around the city. Helping people who need furniture. That was a gift from Chanhassen Rotary a few years back. Most recently the Open Hands Foundation is going to open a homeless shelter for teens and we’re proud that one of our events was able to produce over $37,000 in a grant to launch that effort. Most recently Don, we’ll have a check for you wherever you went for the fire fighters memorial. We voted that as our most recent board meeting and you’re very happy to know that we also made a donation to the Prop Food Shelf and that check will be forth coming as well so again thanks to city staff and county staff. Great series of events. Great partnership makes a lot of that fun but also some great causes possible so thank you. 8 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Well Greg before you go I just, I know that many in the community reap the benefits associated with Rotary. Some people perhaps here tonight are actually members of Rotary Club of Chanhassen or others, and I know that the principles and values by which you operate and for which you stand are important to improving the quality of life in this community so on behalf of the, not only the City Council, the City staff but the community as well we thank you and all of the Rotary for everything that you do for our community. Some of it very quiet. Some of it very loud like the fireworks display but nevertheless we thank you for all of that so thank you very much Greg. Greg Krauska: It’s our pleasure, thank you. Thank you all. Mayor Laufenburger: Those were 3 visitor presentations that we knew about but visitor presentation is a time when anybody in the chamber can come and address the council about any item that’s not on the agenda tonight so I invite anyone who would like to speak about something other than what’s on the agenda, if you’d like to do so tonight you’re welcome to do so at this time. Very well, we move to the next item on our agenda. LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATES. Mayor Laufenburger: Lieutenant Kittelson, are you present tonight? Lt. Eric Kittelson: I am. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much. Come and address the council please. Lt. Eric Kittelson: Good evening Mr. Mayor, council members. This wasn’t on the agenda but I thought we should bring this up. There’s been a lot of questions raised recently regarding the intersection of Lyman and Powers. Mayor Laufenburger: Yes, thank you. Lt. Eric Kittelson: Mr. Oehme, the Carver County Transportation Manager Kate Minor and MnDOT officials met on site on Friday after a traffic study and review of accidents in the last 365 days. Some changes were made to the timing and programming of the lights. I may need to lean on Mr. Oehme for the correct technical terms but essentially what was happening and I believe this is permissive mode when the light turned green you got the flashing yellow and then you had to yield as you turned. Some of the other options are protective permissive where the light turns green. You get a green arrow. After a length of time instead of a red light you get the flashing yellow and then protected mode is what we would consider, most people would associate with a standard traffic light with red, yellow green so that intersection has already been programmed and I believe it’s all four, north, south, east, west is protected mode. We had just discussed north and south but all four directions are in protected mode now. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So this is the Powers and Lyman intersection. 9 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Lt. Eric Kittelson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And this was the site of some recent accidents if I’m not mistaken over the 2-3 months. Something like that, is that correct? Lt. Eric Kittelson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme can you just explain is this a permanent decision on the part of the people that Lieutenant Kittelson mentioned or what’s the plan going forward on this? Paul Oehme: Sure, thank you Mayor, City Council members. So we did meet with Carver County and MnDOT folks on Friday. This is, we’re looking at leaving the current sequence and cycles in place for a duration. Monitoring it. See if any more tweaks need to be made but we’re going to be monitoring over the next months and years and see if we need to make any changes but right now this is the plan moving forward to leave it as its current configuration and cycling. Mayor Laufenburger: And just in terms of historical perspective, is this the only light in Chanhassen that had the, what’d you call it permissive. The flashing yellow to allow people to move. Lt. Eric Kittelson: Yes. We actually met with the engineer, the contractor that designed the intersection and I believe he said, and this is for double lane, two directions flashing yellow. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah. Lt. Eric Kittelson: I think this is, there’s only about 3 in the state right now. Paul Oehme: Right. Lt. Eric Kittelson: One in Rochester and one in Eagan off of 55. But similar to roundabouts. This is a MnDOT initiative. Mayor Laufenburger: Yep. Lt. Eric Kittelson: And because that’s a collector to 212 and timed with the ramp, is why MnDOT’s involved as well. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Well I, did you want to make another comment Mr. Oehme? Paul Oehme: Yeah to clarify too, it’s a federal initiative too so it’s coming down to the states. These flashing yellows, they have been looked at and they appear to be more safe than just the passive permissive and in some of the other sequencing so they’re going to be implemented in the state more often so any new signal that MnDOT puts in they’re going to be looking at putting these new systems in there as well so. And one other note too, Carver County will be striping ticks for turn lanes in the right, in the intersection as well so kind of delineate your lanes there so 10 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 that was another improvement that the County’s going to be making here in the next couple weeks. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, well I just before you move on with the rest of your report. Thanks for working with the appropriate parties and moving quickly on that. I know the citizens will be happy about that. Thank you. Lt. Eric Kittelson: Absolutely. The next thing I want to talk about was Chanhassen deputies participated in the statewide Towards Zero Death initiative for enhanced education and thnd enforcement for speed from July 10 to July 22. Chanhassen deputies wrote 31 citations for speed. Some of the consequences of speed are you know increased stopping distance. Loss of vehicle control. More severe crashes and 1 out of every 4 deaths in Minnesota on the roadways is a direct result of speed as a factor for the crash so we just concluded that yesterday and as I said we wrote 31 citations during that time. As far as the calls for service for June go, we had 89 citations for traffic violations. 389 total verbal warnings for violations and we had 1,196 total calls for service in the city. Of those 22 were Part I. 49 were Part II crimes and 1,125 were miscellaneous non-criminal which are traffic alarms, medicals, accidents, etc. Other than that we’re looking forward to participating in National Night Out next week as well and I’m prepared to answer any questions. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Lieutenant. Any questions for Lieutenant Kittelson? Thank you. Look forward to being with you at National Night Out as well. Next we have our monthly update from Chanhassen Fire Department Chief Don Johnson. Chief welcome. Chief Don Johnson: Mayor, council and Greg thank you. I did hear you. I was standing outside. Appreciate your support. Mayor as my report for June, staffing’s at 46 or 47 paid on th call fire fighters after we did start 2 brand new probationary fire fighters on July 13. We are trying a new program and we do have a high school student that we are calling a cadet in our program starting this year and hopefully within, meeting the training criteria and graduation from high school next year we’ll have a brand new probationary fire fighter so we’ll keep you posted on how that goes. In June we responded to 59 calls for service. We’re currently running about 8½ percent of where we were last year with the predicted call load of about 674 as of June. No significant fires occurred in June and our EMS total responses were 27 with 3 motor vehicle accidents with minor injuries. Our training was based on fire fighter basic skill stations. We had a fire officer’s operational meeting and EMS training. I am happy to report that we have had a th very busy time here with 4 of July. We did medical standby crews for the street dance. City wide response crews for the parade and fireworks and fireworks suppression crews for Lake Ann and Lake Minnewashta. We have no significant reports, no significant events to report from the thth 4 of July so everyone was safe and we’re happy to be able to stand here and say that. July 6 we did have the 4 black hat fire fighters that passed onto probation. Thanks to yourself and the th other council members that were able to make it to that. July 11 we were assisting with the Tonka Mud Run at Lake Minnewashta Regional Park. We assisted with Safety Camp. We assisted the Excelsior Fire Department. Covered their city while they had the street dance and we did some duty crew changes for the month. The Fire Marshal’s report is there. We do have two townhomes still under construction with some sprinklers going in now with the 4,500 square foot sprinkler requirements as well as the, some updates on our commercial inspections. 11 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Any questions for Chief Johnson? Thank you Chief. I’m pleased to hear th that you had no significant incidents on the 4 of July. It was a beautiful night and safe. We th love safety on the 4 of July. Chief Don Johnson: Great, thank you Mayor, council. GLACCUM SUBDIVISION, 1510 LAKE LUCY ROAD, APPLICANT/OWNER: ESTATE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION/MICHAEL & LEAH GLACCUM: REZONING OF PROPERTY FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT (RR) TO SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT (RSF); AND SUBDIVISION WITH VARIANCES OF APPROXIMATELY 3 ACRES INTO 4 LOTS. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item did appear before th the Planning Commission on July 7 and they did vote 4 to 2 to approve it. I think there was some discussion on the number of lots which I’ll go through in a little bit more detail through my presentation. The project is located on 1510 Lake Lucy Road and the site currently has a house on it that was built in 1910 and it’s about 3.12 acres and it’s currently zoned Rural Residential. Sorry I’m getting a message here. Mayor Laufenburger: Is it allowing you to go forward? Kate Aanenson: No. Mayor Laufenburger: It’s not huh. Kate Aanenson: No it’s not. Mayor Laufenburger: Windows is keeping you from moving forward. Kate Aanenson: Yes it is. Mayor Laufenburger: We are the mercy of Redmond, Washington. Can you try again? Kate Aanenson: Hold on one second. Yeah. There we go. Alright so I’m going to give you some different perspectives and kind of frame up the issue and how we came to the zoning that is going forward. The applicant looking at this property looked at, wanted to do some larger executive homes and when we talked about it originally there were some things that we wanted to resolve too. This is an older limestone retaining wall along the road and it’s deteriorated over time so one of the goals was to clean up the trail along that side of the road and clean up that part of the site itself and so that was one of the goals. There is a wetland in the back and it’s heavily wooded along the wetland so one of the staff’s goals too is also to preserve not only the wetland buffer but some additional preservation of trees. The site itself has some area that is, has been mowed and is void of trees and then has some other significant trees on it. When I say significant I mean in larger scale so there is a slight bluff to the site and that was a point of discussion that I’ll talk about in a little bit more detail also. So the request is for the rezoning 12 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 from Rural Residential (RR) to Single Family Residential which is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and the subdivision into 4 single family lots. So part of the request then is for a variance for the bluff setback. So in looking at the residential zoning district, so the RS is what the applicant was requesting but within that the low density being consistent with the Comprehensive Plan there are other zoning applications which is, we see a lot of now which is the R-4 where we have maybe 10,000 square foot lots. People have gone to the 65 foot, 75 foot wide, maybe 8,000 or 9,000-10,000 square foot lots and that could be a choice here because the way our ordinance reads the intent for that zoning district is that you’re preserving something so in this circumstance they would be preserving the wetland. In addition to that creating a greater buffer so that application could have been applied as could of the PUD-R. This applicant wanted to go forward with a traditional subdivision and meet those standards but with that was the bluff issue. So we believe that the residential single family is appropriate zoning based on some of the surrounding land uses. There’s some larger lots across the street and the immediate area so we felt the traditional RSF which is the 15,000 square foot lot. I’d like to point out too that the average lot size on this is over 18,800 so we haven’t done this large of lots for a little while so again looking at trying to provide diversity in housing choices we thought that this was a good option. So again looking at the RSF, the 15,000 square foot lot. The RR, rural residential district and then again using the PUD you could go as small as 11,000 so again we went with the, what the applicant was requesting, the RSF. So the variance itself is for the bluff. There was a bluff noted on the site and that bluff does require the variance. It does also have some retaining walls on the site in order to manage that and I’ll go through that in a little bit more detail. So here’s the lots itself with the dedicated right-of-way. One home will get access off of Yosemite and the other 3 will come off of the cul-de-sac on Lake Lucy Road so all those meet all the city standards for the subdivision itself. And then you can see Outlot A would be the preservation of the wetland and the additional conservation easement. So the bluff itself lies in this area here. Just behind the existing home that as I stated was built in 1910 and there’s a garage and some other out buildings on the property so when we first with the applicant on paper, we said there’s a bluff and then we recommended with the applicant so we took someone from the engineering department, the City Forester, and the Stormwater Resources Manager to go out and field check it as with one of the staff planners to verify is it an anomaly. How does this affect the layout of the property? Again this property could have been laid out in different configuration as I mentioned to do some smaller lots and cluster the homes and then you would preserve this anomaly. In doing that you would also put retaining walls right behind the house so in looking at it, there is some tree loss on that area but then in looking at the quality of trees and this discussion was brought up at the Planning Commission that some of the older stock and not of the higher quality. While it’s more mature it wouldn’t be of the higher quality so this area will be mass graded and the slopes and behind it will be preserved with the significant trees on it. The other thing I did want to mention is that the retaining walls on the site, there’s a retaining wall that would be on the eastern portion of the property and. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s, and Kate that’s not the retaining wall that’s present right now? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: The one that’s present is down on Lake Lucy Road is that correct? 13 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Kate Aanenson: Correct. The current retaining wall that’s in rough shape is along Lake Lucy Road, yep. Mayor Laufenburger: So these would be two new retaining walls correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct. And as a part of that as we’ve learned through our experience with retaining walls we require that they be engineered. They meet a certain specification that the homeowners also would take ownership of the retaining wall. They wouldn’t be a responsibility from the city on that so. So you can see in this area too then there’s additional, that this would be the preservation area for the trees on that site. Utilities, again the City does have municipal services to the property so all the lots will be provided sewer and water through the city. The 3 lots coming off of Lake Lucy and then the Lot 1 would come off, the utilities would come off Yosemite. So this is the buffer area. We’ve got the required buffer and then we took the additional buffer, and this is slightly out of scale with the slide but it’s, the additional buffer is this area in here is what we’re requiring so then the fencing and tree preservation would be placed along that area so there’s no disturbing of that property in the back. Again showing the tree removal and preservation area. And then the recommendation that the staff has that we approve the rezoning from rural residential to single family and the subdivision with the variance to the bluff setback and subject to the conditions of Findings of Fact and I’d be happy to any questions that you may have. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Ms. Aanenson. Any questions of staff related to this? Councilwoman Ryan. Councilwoman Ryan: Thank you. I have a couple questions. Obviously I’m familiar with this area. In terms of the buffer itself, are you going into the buffer zone or are you going into the, the required setback? Kate Aanenson: It’s outside of the required setback so it’s in addition to. Councilwoman Ryan: It’s in addition to. And then in terms of the, in the packet it said staff had a concern about the stormwater management. The infiltration system. Do you still have that concern or is that something that’s been? Kate Aanenson: No, that’s been addressed. Yeah. Councilwoman Ryan: And how has it been addressed? Kate Aanenson: I’ll let City Engineer go through that. Paul Oehme: Mayor, City Council member. The maintenance I think was the biggest thing so I think we’ve worked out how to address that and we increased the size and the capacity of the infiltration basin to accommodate what we think is appropriate for the site. Councilwoman Ryan: But weren’t you concerned about access? 14 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Paul Oehme: Yeah we do and that, in conjunction with that a good point is a bigger drainage utility easement I think also we looked at so there’s basically the infiltration area is off the cul- de-sac down to the wetland so that’s the area we’ll have to work on. We’ve got the easement for. City staff will maintain that infiltration area as best as we can but we’ll have to just monitor it and there’s a sump manhole that’s there that we’ll be cleaning out over time as well too so I think from a maintenance perspective I think we’ve got it covered. Kate Aanenson: Mayor if I may I just want to point out too, this is preliminary so at final plat we’ll see the revisions. We have a few things that we have for conditions so those will be presented, those changes back to City Council and that will be on consent for final plat so you’ll see this once again showing how those changes have been met so they’ll work on that between now and final. Councilwoman Ryan: And so then that goes to my next question. You also mentioned, so would that be the conservation easement that you’re waiting to get back? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilwoman Ryan: That you needed a legal description. Kate Aanenson: Yep, we’ll have that drafted and the City Attorney reviews those and so will we and so those will all be part of the documents that we get before we go for final plat. Councilwoman Ryan: So does that come from the developer or does that come from the resident? Kate Aanenson: …city attorney draft that and the language that’s in there and so we would review that with the developer. They would also check to make sure that it’s. Councilwoman Ryan: So when someone goes to build then that easement’s already. Kate Aanenson: It’s recorded with the property, correct. Councilwoman Ryan: Recorded with the property. Kate Aanenson: So that’s what I’m saying. It goes with the final plat documents so that all gets recorded. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then another question in terms of the trails. You said the trail that’s in front of the rock wall right now has the zero foot buffer I think. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Councilwoman Ryan: And so you’re going to have that setback so there’s a 5 foot buffer? Kate Aanenson: Correct. 15 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Ryan: How is that then going to connect with the property next door as it goes down Lake Lucy? What does that look like because the property to the east has maybe a 1 or 2-foot buffer. How is that going to? Kate Aanenson: I’m assuming that working with the Park and Rec Director that they’ll make a transition there as you get towards that intersection they’ll make a transition. That’s something that we’ll work out in the final plat. I can bring that forward. I would refer to Mr. Hoffman on that. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, and then my last question and my concern is just about that, the boulder wall. I know some neighbors that live down in the Shadow Ridge neighborhood have not been able to build up against the bluff before and some of the extensions of their back yards. There’s no concern about a boulder wall and as we’ve experienced in the city failing boulder walls, that then if you’re impeding on the bluff, something fails, how are they going to get access to that? You know that’s a concern of mine being so far back. Kate Aanenson: Yeah I think that’s one of the conditions. I’ll let the City Engineer address it too but one of the things that we’ve learned over time is how they’re engineered and how they’re constructed. We changed those standards. Paul Oehme: So City Council and Mayor, yeah. So we limit the height of our boulder walls down to no higher than 6 feet and any wall over 4 feet is going to have to be engineered and designed by a registered engineer as well so we’ll have those documentations before any of the wall is built and under this scenario the boulder walls are responsible, the responsibility of the homeowner to maintain and for its upkeep. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And one more question, thank you. In the commission meeting there was a suggestion about moving, instead of having 4 lots there would be 3 lots. Can you explain? Kate Aanenson: Sure I think there was just some discussion about the overall layout and our point being is the developer chose to go with an application. We could have put a retaining wall around the knoll and still put in 4 homes. I’m not sure that would have been a better subdivision because there are different zoning choices within that so they could have come in with the RLM and said I’m preserving an open space which is what we stated in our intent to apply for that zoning district. Even for a PUD they have to above and beyond for preservation which is doing even under the residential single family zoning district so you know normally we get people trying to do smaller lots and put more of them in so we hadn’t done one of this type before and again walking the site with the developer we felt like just the anomaly of that and how the houses sat. If you look in your staff report there’s a comment when we walked the site and it just talks about by grading it as proposed these areas of steep slope are limited to the subject property but they could potentially still build right up to that slope, and I’m reading from page 6 of 17. So staff’s position after walking it that we felt that this made a better layout as a whole instead of trying to put the 4 homes in there and kind of work around that existing feature. 16 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Ryan: How about moving the homes forward so they’re not so far? I mean I get it’s going to be harder to sell a home on a lot… Kate Aanenson: It had some other challenges when you’re looking at sewer depths and things like that too so it’s the overall engineering for all of that to make that work. Councilwoman Ryan: Instead of moving the homes forward so they don’t back up to the bluff. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Yeah so if you, the plat itself showed potential placement. That doesn’t mean they’re going to go back as far as that but within that setback yeah. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Ryan. Any other questions? Ms. Aanenson I have just clarification. So the action the council is taking tonight is twofold. Rezoning the property to single family residential and then doing a subdivision to create these 4 lots, is that correct? Okay. But you mentioned a final plat. What will come back with a final plat? Kate Aanenson: So the conditions that are attached with the preliminary will come back. We’ll show you how they’ve been addressed. Either they’ve been met. No longer apply. We usually strike out bold so you can track all those conditions that we, how we’ve addressed them and so they’ll submit revised plans addressing all those issues so. Mayor Laufenburger: So that will be a check point that the developer will have with city staff and council that they’re doing what we expect them to do, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct so Mayor how it works is the conditions of approval tonight are sent to the developer. These are the things you must follow to go to the next step so that’s kind of their marching orders. Mayor Laufenburger: But the action tonight, the action that we take tonight if it is approved is we are rezoning this single family residential and we are creating 4 lots. Okay. Alright. Any other questions or comment? Todd Gerhardt: And final plat and development contract will come back for your approval. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Gerhardt. Is the applicant, this is not necessary but is the applicant present tonight and would the applicant like to make a comment to the council? Welcome, state your name and address please. Tom Gonyea: Good evening Mayor, members of the council. Tom Gonyea with the Estate Development Corporation, 15250 Wayzata Boulevard in Minnetonka. Mayor Laufenburger: Welcome. 17 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Tom Gonyea: Thank you. Worked with staff quite a while to try and balance this site and I think did a real fair job representing the challenges we’re up against and I think we came up with good plans so with that I’d open it to any questions of council if they have that of me so. Mayor Laufenburger: I think the primary question I have is you’re familiar with the Findings of Fact and the things that are required of you, that will likely be required of you for development? Tom Gonyea: Yeah absolutely. Mayor Laufenburger: And you’re comfortable with those? Tom Gonyea: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Very good, okay. Any questions for Mr. Gonyea? Alright, thank you for coming forward. Tom Gonyea: Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Nice to have you here tonight. Okay let’s bring it back to the council for comment or motion. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’ll make a motion Mr. Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor I’d like to make the motion that this Chanhassen City Council approves rezoning the property from Rural Residential District to Single Family Residential and subdivision approval with a variance to the bluff setback to create 4 lots and one outlot subject to the conditions of approval and adoption of the Findings of Fact. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Is there a second? Councilman McDonald: I’ll second. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilman McDonald. We have a valid motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council approve the rezoning from Rural Residential District (RR) to Single Family Residential (RSF), and Subdivision approval with a Variance to create four lots and one outlot subject to the following conditions and adoption of the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation: Rezoning: 18 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 1.Contingent on final plat approval. Subdivision : Building: 1.Final grading plans and soil reports must be submitted to the Inspections Division before building permits will be issued. 2.Engineered design and building permits are required for retaining walls exceeding four feet in height. 3.Each lot must be provided with a separate sewer and water service. 4.Demolition permits must be obtained before demolishing any structures. 5.Proper removal, abandonment or sealing of storage tanks, on-site septic systems, wells, etc. is required. Permits are required, as applicable. 6.If applicable, existing home(s) affected by the new street will require address changes. Engineering: 1.The existing easements on the property shall be shown on the existing topography page of the plan set. 2.The easement dimensions must be revised over the sanitary sewer to provide adequate area to excavate the pipe for future maintenance at a 1:1 slope (minimum), or a 1:1.5 slope (preferred). 3.The developer shall dedicate a conservation easement over the wooded area being preserved adjacent to the wetland. The conservation easement language must allow the property owner of Lot 3, Block 1 to perform proper maintenance and/or replacement of their lower retaining wall or the conservation easement and/or wall must be shifted to allow enough area for said maintenance. 4.For future benefit, an access easement across Lot 4 must be granted to the property at 1430 Lake Lucy Road, or the portion of Lot 4 that lies between the cul-de-sac and 1430 Lake Lucy Road must be dedicated as public right-of-way. 5.The grading plan must be revised to include the proposed elevations at each lot corner. 6.Lot 1, Block 1 shall require drain tile service to promote drainage from the back to the front of the lot. 19 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 7.The wetland delineation is approved or, if need be, modified for approval and the setbacks and buffer areas are changed as necessary. 8.The Surface Water Pollution Prevention Plan shall be modified to include all elements as required in Parts III and IV of the General Permit Authorization to Discharge Stormwater Associated with Construction Activity Under the National Pollution Discharge Elimination/State Disposal System. 9.The SWPPP shall list among the quantities the required volume of topsoil to spread six inches on all areas to be sodded or seeded. 10.The retaining walls will be owned and maintained by the individual property owners. 11.The plans shall show the top and bottom wall elevation for all proposed walls. 12.Walls over six feet high shall not be boulder walls. 13.Tiered boulder walls with a combined total height greater than six feet must have adequate spacing between such that they do not structurally impact one another. 14.The vegetation between tiered walls shall be low or no maintenance. 15.A stop sign shall be installed for traffic on Lakeway Drive before crossing or entering Lake Lucy Road. 16.The plan must show proposed driveway elevations at the center of the proposed driveway at the curb line as well as the maximum slope on each driveway. 17.The maximum allowed driveway grade is 10% at any point on the driveway. The Lot 1 and Lot 4 driveways must be revised to be under that maximum. 18.The plan shall be revised such that there is a five-foot buffer between the trail and traffic on Lake Lucy Road. 19.The pedestrian ramp at the corner of Lake Lucy Road and Yosemite Avenue shall be replaced with an ADA-compliant pedestrian ramp. 20.The City of Chanhassen standard detail plates for pedestrian ramps shall be added to the plan set. 21.The sanitary sewer main on site shall be installed per the City of Chanhassen Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. 22.The eight-inch water main shall be installed per the City of Chanhassen Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. 23.The proposed sanitary sewer and water main shall become city-owned after construction and acceptance by the City Council. 24.The city shall require the developer to extend the sanitary sewer and water main to the northern property line of Lot 1 for future connection of properties to the west. 20 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 25.The detail plates in the plan set must be updated with the most current City of Chanhassen plates. 26.The applicant’s engineer shall provide the anticipated operations and maintenance requirements for the infiltration system and shall demonstrate to the satisfaction of the city, how maintenance, including excavation can occur. 27.The applicant shall move MH 2 to the curb line and, if need be, move OCS 3 a commensurate distance. 28.The sump depth of MH2 shall be four feet. 29.A total of $14,722.50 in storm water utility connection charges shall be due at time of final plat. 30.The applicant is responsible for procurement of, and compliance with, any other agency approvals that may be necessary. 31.Water and sewer partial hookups are due at the time of final plat. The partial hookup fees will be assessed at the rate in effect at that time. Environmental Resources: 1.Tree protection fencing will be required at the construction limits prior to any grading. 2.Lots 1 through 4 will have the following quantities of trees planted, as shown on the landscape plan dated 6/16/15: Lot 1: 4 trees; Lot 2: 3 trees; Lot 3: 3 trees; Lot 4: 4 trees. Bufferyard plantings will be located on Lots 1, 2 and 4. 3.Conservation easement signage shall be installed at property lines and directional changes. 4.All retaining walls must be located outside of the Conservation Easement. Fire: 1.Provide a three-foot clear space around the new fire hydrant. 2.No burning permits will be issued for tree, brush removal. 3.Submit proposed street name to Chanhassen Building Official and Fire Marshal for review and approval. 4.Street name sign shall be installed prior to any building construction. Parks: 21 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 1.Full park fees in lieu of additional parkland dedication and/or trail construction shall be collected. One lot is being granted park fee credit in recognition of the existing single-family residence that was on the property. The park fees will be collected in full at the rate in force upon final plat submission and approval. All voted in favor except Councilwoman Ryan who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. TOTAL WINE & MORE, 510 LAKE DRIVE, OUTLOT B, VILLAGES ON THE PONDS TH 4 ADDITION: A.PUBLIC HEARING ON A REQUEST FOR AN OFF-SALE INTOXICATING LIQUOR LICENSE, APPLICANT: MINNESOTA FINE WINES & SPIRITS, LLC DBA TOTAL WINE & MORE. Mayor Laufenburger: Now we’re about to go to the item H on our agenda which includes a public hearing and I just want to make a couple comments before we do this. I’m just getting to that section of my packet that relates to this folks. Okay, before we go to the next item on our agenda let me just make a moment to explain the process that we use for these items. There are two items here specifically and we will take these two items independently. First addressing the application for a license and then secondly addressing the PUD amendment, the final plat approval and the site plan review. First I will introduce the item and then I will ask for a staff report. Once the staff is complete I will ask if there are any questions from the council. Then I will have some brief remarks before the public hearing and I will then ask the applicant, assuming the applicant is present. I believe they are. I will ask the applicant if they would like to make a comment, limiting their comment to the same time that I will limit public comments. Then we will have a public hearing until the public hearing is concluded. I will then close the public hearing. Bring the item back to the council for further questions, comments or motions. Now my expectation is that anyone who wishes to address the council tonight during the public hearing will be able to do so. It will require patience on all of our part but I believe that’s the case so that’s how we will proceed. So the next item on our agenda tonight is Item H(1)(a). Application for off-sale intoxicating liquor license by Minnesota Fine Wines and Spirits. May we have a staff report please. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. This is an off-sale liquor license request for Total Wine and More. The location map shows it’s at 510 Lake Drive East. To the east of Bookoo Bikes. To the north of Summerwood. To the west of Community Bank and to the south of Houlihan’s Restaurant. Carver County Sheriff’s office completed the background check and no negative comments were found. State statute and city code does not limit the number of off- sale licenses. Does not limit the size of liquor stores nor the distance requirements between off- sale liquor stores. No distance requirements from churches or schools. The applicant currently meets all State and City license requirements at this time. Staff recommends approval of the off- sale liquor license request from Total Wine and More contingent upon approval of site plan. Final approval from the Minnesota Department of Public Safety. This is a public hearing and staff would ask that you open the public hearing at this time. 22 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Mr. Gerhardt. Before I open the public hearing are there any questions of staff at this time? Okay I have one. I have just a couple questions and I’m going to direct this to you Mr. Gerhardt. One of the, in the staff report it says approval of the license would be contingent upon council approval of the site plan, subdivision and PUD amendment, issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy and final approval by the Minnesota Alcohol and Gambling Department. Can you explain what approval is required there? You or Mr. Knutson. Is that a formality? Is that like a registration or is there actually a qualifying review that they put on it? Todd Gerhardt: An off-sale liquor license goes with a premise location so you must have a location for the premise that is applying for the license. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. We review liquor license applications many, many times. Have we ever had a license applied for that the Minnesota Alcohol and Gambling Department has turned down as far as you know? Todd Gerhardt: Not that I’m aware of. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Knutson. Roger Knutson: Not that I’m aware of here or anyplace else. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much. Okay. Just one final question for you Mr. Knutson. What exactly is the decision that the council is being asked to make this evening? Roger Knutson: Fairly narrow question. The issue is will you approve or deny Total Wine’s application for an off-sale liquor license. That’s the only issue on A(1) or whatever the number is. Mayor Laufenburger: H(1)(a). Roger Knutson: H(1)(a). Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And what is the basis for us to use in that decision? Roger Knutson: Do they comply with city ordinance requirements and the State statues on liquor. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, thank you very much. Okay, now I’m about to open the public hearing but I just want to make a couple other comments. First I will give the applicant the opportunity to make an opening statement of no longer than 5 minutes and then I will ask for public comment from others present in the chambers. Each person will be given 5 minutes. You don’t have to take that long and clearly brevity will be both welcomed and appreciated. However please be thorough with your comments. I ask that you give your name, your address, the city and state whether you are speaking in favor of or in opposition to the approval of the license and then state your reasons why. Now one more thing, and I have no reason to limit 23 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 anybody this evening but I would like to give preference to those citizens of Chanhassen, either residents or businesses first so I would just, when I ask you to come forward I just ask that the first few would be Chanhassen residents please. Also please remember that each council member has received an electronic packet that included 3,400 pages of scanned documents, the majority of which related to this license application. This also includes many emails, letters, and other documents both in favor of and opposed to the approval. So we are especially looking for information that is important to you and also has not been mentioned in previous correspondence. That’s not an exclusion. I’m just saying that’s what we’re looking for. Now we as a council based on emails, phone calls and conversations in the community we realize that there is significant energy and passion from both sides of this application process. Please remember that you are addressing the council with your comments and your views. You aren’t addressing the audience. You’re not addressing the media outlets that may be present. State your case to us, the council. There may be questions that arise and I will direct those questions to the council members or to city staff or to the applicant as appropriate and some questions may simply be rhetorical and don’t require an answer. I fully expect that respectful dialogue will be displayed. If it’s not I will not tolerate that so with that in mind let me invite somebody from Chanhassen to come to the council, and I know it takes a little bit of energy for that first person but I declare the public hearing. Oh excuse me, yes. Got to listen to my own words. Thank you for that reminder. I would like to invite the applicant to come forward and make an opening statement if you’d like. Edward Cooper: Mr. Mayor and members of City Council, thank you very much for the opportunity to come and appear before you this evening. My name’s Edward Cooper. I’m the Vice President of Public Affairs and Community Relations for Total Wine and More. I’m here to tell you a little bit about Total Wine and its values and first and foremost I want to tell you that we’re excited about the possibility of coming to Chanhassen. We’ve been fortunate that our business has been successful. We are a family owned business. We’re owned by two brothers. We started, they started the business in 1991 with one store. 1,500 square feet in Claymont, Delaware in 1991 and through hard work, determination and a terrific business model David and Robert Trone have been able to now open 117 stores in 16 states. Total Wine’s never been denied a license and we’ve never closed a store. We’re particularly proud of that. We have 4 stores that are currently open in Minnesota. Roseville, Burnsville, Woodbury and Bloomington and right from the start Roseville consistently was one of our stop stores in the country. In fact to this day Roseville is our number 3 performing store in the country and Bloomington is number 5 and all of the Minnesota stores are in our top 40. As of last week we were granted a license, our fifth license in Minnesota in Maple Grove. We wanted to be in southwest metro suburbs, particularly in Chanhassen for a couple of reasons. We look for, our stores, we are a fine wine store primarily. Fine wine. Artisanal spirits. Outstanding craft beer. I’ll talk a little bit about selection in a second but we look for an affluent, well-educated community and we have that here in Chanhassen. Our experience has been in Minnesota that we are, in fact our experience all around the country has been that we’re a destination so when we come to a city or provided or granted a license in a city we are a retailer that’s going to pull other business into that city. In fact what we found here in Minnesota is that 65 to 70 percent, 65 to 70 percent of our customers come from outside of the city that we’re located in. We expect that to be the same here in Chanhassen so Eden Prairie, Chaska, Victoria, Shorewood, Excelsior, those types of cities we expect to be able to bring business into and share that business with businesses here in 24 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Chanhassen. We’ve been successful because we provide customers with what they want. Service, selection, price and an outstanding customer experience. We intend to bring 3 things to that have made us successful here in Minnesota. We intend to bring those to Chanhassen as well. A commitment to exceed customer expectations. A commitment to hire and train the best team members. That’s what we call employees, our team members. And our commitment to actively support the community in which we serve, particularly here in Chanhassen. First off let me talk about commitment to customers. Customers want clean, bright, nicely appointed stores with wide aisles. They want low, fair prices. They want a wide selection and we strive to be able to bring customers that experience. Our stores have on average 8,000 fine wines, 3,000 spirits and 2,500 beers and it’s a large range of prices. Anywhere from a few dollars for a bottle of wine all the way up to $5,000 for a bottle of wine. Mayor Laufenburger: You have about a minute Ed. Edward Cooper: I will be very quick. Our team members are local. 75 percent of our team members are, we strive to have them be full time. Good wages with full benefits. We train them excessively. Commitment to community is in our DNA. We have reached out to 5,700 charitable organizations in the last year nationwide and provided them with $5.5 million dollars in kind and cash donations. Since Roseville store opened in March of 2014 we’ve been, we provided donations to over 400 organizations in Minnesota. Finally I want to talk about our commitment to community. I’ll be very quick about this but I think this is a very important point. What matters most is preventing sales of alcohol to minors and inebriated persons. Law enforcement in our stores, law enforcement is contacted immediately if a minor tries to buy and we train our team members over and over again to prevent that and we believe that we’ve got the best record in the entire country on that. As I said 117 stores in 24 years, that’s 861 store years. We’ve had 12 violations. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright thank you Mr. Cooper. What I’m going to do is I’m just going to ask you and members of your team to be on hand in case we need to address any questions to you Mr. Cooper. Thank you. Edward Cooper: Absolutely. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Now members of the public, by the way could I have a show of hands how many of you would like to speak to the City Council tonight? Just a show of hands. Okay I think we’re going to be able to get through all of you so who’s ready to be first. Well played. Just be sure, your name, your address and city, in favor or opposition and then reasons why. Thank you. Joannie Demeter: My name is Joannie Demeter. I reside at 8203 Marsh Drive in Chanhassen and I am opposed to our city of Chanhassen granting a license to Total Wine. Mr. Mayor and City Council members, thank you for this opportunity for me to express my concerns on this topic. My husband and I have resided in Chanhassen for 27 years. I’m here this evening for 2 reasons. First because I care about the decisions that will impact my neighborhood community. Second and most importantly I do not believe it is wise to allow a national retail liquor store to be built in what appears to be within 100 yards of an elementary school. I have been an 25 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 elementary school teacher for 34 years. For the past 15 years I have been a kindergarten teacher and I love my job. As a kindergarten teacher it is in my protective nature to care about situations that occur in the neighborhood around an elementary school. Don’t we have an ordinance in our city that stipulates the types of businesses that are allowed to be built near schools? And as I heard in your opening comments I guess not. In previous years Chanhassen city leaders voted no to Walmart and no to Valley Auto. Why is it necessary to saturate our lovely community with an eighth liquor store? For the sake of the children who attend that elementary school I hope that you, as our city leaders will vote no to the Total Wine proposal. Thank you. (Applause). Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Joannie. Folks I know you’re compelled to do that but I ask that you don’t please. What we hear is the comments. We don’t hear the rest. Let’s see, question Mr. Gerhardt. Can you just confirm, is there any ordinance that the City has regarding the placement of a liquor store within a certain length of a school or otherwise? Todd Gerhardt: No. There is no regulation in city ordinance regarding distance between school, daycare, and elementary school. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much. And also the question was asked regarding we said no to Walmart. Did the City Council say no to Walmart or say no to a development plan Mr. Gerhardt? Todd Gerhardt: It was a development plan that did not fit the site and meet city requirements so the denial was based on not meeting city conditions. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much. Next member of the public who would like to speak. Brian Burdick: Good evening Mayor Laufenburger, council and staff. Brian Burdick, Burdick Properties, 600 Market Street, Chanhassen. I’ve been involved in the business community in Chanhassen for 30 years. I’m here in opposition this evening of another liquor, off sale liquor license for another liquor store. I’m not here in opposition to Total Wine. In fact I think they run a very solid operation. I’m sure they do with some 100 stores and I’ve heard they make a ton of money. I’m also sure that staff has done a fine job of reviewing the entire plan. I think they have for many, many years. Chanhassen does not need another liquor store. There’s already 7 liquor stores. That’s probably too many with 7 but there’s 7 here but you, I hope that you will support this evening a moratorium on any new additional liquor stores in Chanhassen. You can do that legally. That will give you time to discuss whether or not you really want Chanhassen to be number one in the Minneapolis area or maybe the upper Midwest on a per resident and liquor store ratio. I never saw Chanhassen this way. I might be wrong. Maybe they want to be number one. I don’t think it’s necessary. Also I want you to really think about that site there and go over it and not just kind of think you have to accept this. One thing, there’s many things Chanhassen could use in the business community. One I can think is a Redstone style restaurant. I’m just using their name. There’s lots of fast food. You know them all. I’m not going to repeat them but boy, some nice restaurants, particularly on that location I think would be very well received. 26 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 I’d be here. Definitely. So I hope that you will support a moratorium on any additional liquor stores so that you have time to really review this and think about it and eventually adopt a limit at 7 on the number of liquor stores in Chanhassen. Thank you very much. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Burdick. Thank you. Anybody else who would like to speak come forward please. Jim Slattery: Good evening Mayor, City Council. My name is Jim Slattery. I’m a partner in the th Haskell’s store located at 19900 West 78 Street in Chanhassen. I had a nice little speech ready to read tonight but Mr. Burdick took a lot of my, kind of rained on my parade. I was going to talk about the same moratorium that I think is necessary here so I’m just going to kind of ad lib just a little bit. How many licenses does Chanhassen right now? Again it’s the big factor. In the state of Minnesota ratio of liquor stores to per capita does count. Now it might not count in Washington or California or Delaware but in the state of Minnesota it does count. Another thing I want to talk about is the big box situation of Total. Total’s got several stores around town right now and all of their stores are in big box locations. Chanhassen is not a big box location. It’s a small town. The last thing I would like to talk about is the moratorium that Brian talked about and I’ll talk a little bit about what Minnetonka did. Was in my packet and I don’t want to take too much time. Two weeks ago the City of Minnetonka amended their statute for off sale stores to criteria that addressed the same concerns I just spoke about. Their amended new statute included staying at the same number of liquor stores. Limiting new stores to specific locations and limiting the size of new stores to 5,000 square feet. I think Minnetonka did an admirable job of looking at this situation. They studied the question and came up with the right answer. I hope Chanhassen does the same thing. Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Slattery. Anybody else who would like to speak? Anybody else? Please come forward. State your name and address please. Chris Duppler: Hi, Chris Duppler, 9174 Springfield Drive. Mayor Laufenburger: Nice to see you tonight. Chris Duppler: Good to see you too Mayor. I had a nice little speech written out here too but I think we’ve pretty much topped it all. What I do have though is we did an online petition and I don’t know who to give it to. I just want to be on the record there’s 280 people opposed. I did go through. I doubled check to make sure there were no duplicates. Mayor Laufenburger: Are they residents of Chanhassen or? Chris Duppler: I don’t have a way. Mayor Laufenburger: Or not necessarily. Chris Duppler: I don’t have a way of noticing because when I filled it out I was in Atlanta so it says I’m from Atlanta, which I’m clearly not. 27 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: I know you’re not from Atlanta Mr. Duppler. Chris Duppler: That’s right so as far as I know the only people that would have had access to it were people that saw the link from, it was passed around that way. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Good. Chris Duppler: So I hope you look at it. I hope you’ll consider some of the comments in there. There’s a lot of things. Mayor Laufenburger: What was the, could you. Chris Duppler: It was asking if they were in favor or if they were opposed to an eighth liquor store. I don’t think the problem that anybody has is with Total Wine. I think it’s with, you know we rank number 4 already in the community, or in the metro area with the number of liquor stores and we’re going to have one more and I don’t think, you know Chanhassen’s a great city. It gets recognized for a lot. I don’t want to be recognized as that place where everybody has 15,000 liquor stores to choose from and so it was do we need another liquor store is really the point. It’s all spelled out in there too if you want to go through and look at it. Mayor Laufenburger: So you didn’t say this up front but you’re speaking in opposition to the liquor license is that correct? Chris Duppler: I am speaking in opposition of it yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Thank you Chris. Chris Duppler: Okay that’s it, thanks. Mayor Laufenburger: Next, anybody else? He beat you. Matt Hanna: Sorry. Good evening, Matt Hanna, 8863 Lake Riley Drive. Two quick comments and if you don’t mind a couple of questions. First of all this is not really the eighth liquor license. If you look at size of the existing stores, this would make it 8, 9, 10 and maybe 11 in terms of square footage in the city. Secondly my wife and I just moved. Mayor Laufenburger: Just a second, I’m not sure I follow your math. What are you? Matt Hanna: So from the size standpoint, many of the stores that are in the Chanhassen area right now are in that 5,000 square footage. Mayor Laufenburger: So what you’re saying is that if it was, instead of being one building as compared to the others it would be 4 liquor stores. Is that what you’re saying? Matt Hanna: It is literally like adding 3 to 4 more liquor stores in terms of the square footage of available space. 28 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Matt Hanna: Bigger than just one liquor store like we have now. Number one. Number two, when my wife and I moved here from Eden Prairie to Chanhassen we did so for the reasons that were referenced before. We loved the area that was suggested for where this store may go now. This is not what the City promised. This is not what the City talked about when the original plans were done many years ago. I would never have dreamed that walk about area that was suggested very early on would include a store that is likely to have 400 cars a hour go back and forth so two quick questions if you don’t mind please. Many of us were at the planning meeting were sort of disappointed because everybody in the room that came up stated they were in opposition, which by the way I am sorry and it was not clear why two things happened. So it’s a question please. Why is Total Wine being offered a variance on their signage, which no other liquor store in Chanhassen has been allowed, which in my opinion makes them more competitive. And number two, if I heard correctly and I apologize if I did not, a traffic study was done but well before there was a conversation about a store such as Total Wine would be in that neighborhood. If you go in that area there are elderly people that walk to Culver’s and walk to the grocery store. There are children that literally walk that neighborhood. If you go to Bloomington and you watch the traffic that goes in and out of that parking lot, I fear it’s going to be dangerous and if we’ve done a study that says that can’t and won’t happen I accept but it wasn’t clear to us at the Planning Commission so one, could we get some feedback on the. Mayor Laufenburger: I’ve got them both. Matt Hanna: Great. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Hanna. Matt Hanna: Thank you. Appreciate it. Mayor Laufenburger: Kate I want to address this to you. First of all let’s talk about the planned unit development called Village of the Ponds, or Village on the Ponds. When did that planned unit development first come before the council? Kate Aanenson: It was approved in 1995. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And this area that is now being earmarked as for potentially for Total Wine, this is called specialty retail, is that what it’s called? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And what was that earmarked to be in 1995? Kate Aanenson: We had a mix of retail in that area so retail. And we capped the biggest user there at 20,000 square feet. 29 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: So we capped it at 20,000 square feet. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And I know that this is the next item on the agenda but what’s the size of the building that the developer. Kate Aanenson: This is just under the 19. Mayor Laufenburger: So it’s under the 20,000? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Talk about the signage, and this is a question that I think that perhaps council members have and we were going to address this later but I’m going to ask you to speak to it right now. Kate Aanenson: I’ll do it twice. Mayor Laufenburger: I understand that there is a signage but have you provided variance for other signs in the Village on the Ponds? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Recently, 2014 we did approve a specialty grocer there at 17,000. Excuse me 14,000 square feet with an additional 8,000 square feet of retail and so with that they requested a variance for a sign. This is we have different sectors within that. Now this is the only place in the city where you cannot put a sign this high. If you look at what we did at Children’s Learning Center, that’s significantly higher. That’s at 25 feet. Mayor Laufenburger: Yep. Kate Aanenson: So the specialty grocer who asked for a variance and the Planning Commission and the City Council recommended support of that, as did the Community Bank also got a variance to go over the 20 feet in height. So instead of when this application came in at the Planning Commission, instead of giving, the unique attribute of going that high for this use, we said everything in that sector should be given the same rights so the way to accomplish that was to recommend amending the PUD. Mayor Laufenburger: So in amending the PUD that essentially eliminates the variance for the signage is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. 30 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Kate Aanenson: And the reason again the rational basis for that was the fact that nobody on the Planning Commission or the City Council objected to the variance for the grocer and it was the same height issue. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Secondly on the traffic study, I know that you’re going to be speaking to this in the second item but was there, back in 1995 and by the way when was St. Hubert’s built? Kate Aanenson: It was after that. Actually St. Hubert’s really was the impetus for this to come about. There were a couple of factors that put together the PUD because they wanted to find a site that they could share parking which they wouldn’t have to take up so much land when they’re looking for a site in the core of downtown so they were the leading user in the site. Mayor Laufenburger: And does the, was the, was a liquor establishment considered one of the approved participants in the planned unit development back in 1995? Kate Aanenson: Yes. It was never prohibited. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so it has not been a prohibited site, okay. Alright so let’s speak to the traffic study. There must have been a traffic study done in 1995 when the PUD first came forward. Kate Aanenson: Yes and so. Mayor Laufenburger: And what was the traffic volumes anticipated from that? Kate Aanenson: I don’t have all the specific numbers. I’ll just give you some generals in my report that’s coming up but what we did is when that original project came in, again these are private streets because they wanted to do on street parking so they’re private streets, which is allowed to park on as this application does will park on shared parking. And in addition to that we did an overall environmental assessment document for this entire project so that gave a base threshold of traffic volumes. So right now based on the development that’s out there, this is under the anticipated traffic volumes. Mayor Laufenburger: So even if this, even if Total Wine comes in, and I don’t have off the top of my head the anticipated trips that will be generated but if we add those anticipated trips to the existing traffic are we below the original anticipated traffic in 1995? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct and in addition the project that was approved previously, the specialty grocer with the 8,000 was also, was actually had more traffic than this project. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Kate Aanenson: So that was our perspective on that issue. 31 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. And thank you Mr. Hanna for asking those questions. Next to address the council. Jim Franklin: My name is Jim Franklin. I’m a resident of Chanhassen located at 8735 Lake Riley Drive. I was just curious enough about this traffic issue that last Saturday I went and parked myself at the Bloomington Total Wine store and observed you know customers entering the store. Mayor Laufenburger: What time of day was that? Jim Franklin: This was approximately 3:00. Between 3:00 and 3:30 in the afternoon which I would just assume is probably one of their busier days. During that period I observed 458 people entering the store so if you put that on an hourly basis that’s about 917 people per hour and you know there was a number, there was singles. There was doubles. There were families walking into the store but if you assume for a moment 2 people per car, that equates to about 450 cars per hour. Do the math on that. That’s about 80 cars every 10 minutes. 40 coming. 40 going and that would of course be incremental to what we’re currently seeing in our community in that area right now. And so I would ask the council to consider the amount of incremental traffic that comes into what I believe at least are two viable entrances into that area. I would add, my last comment here is that you know I think Total Wine has done you know a great thing in the community, in the Twin Cities. There was an article recently on WCCO where one of the major liquor stores, you know basically summed it up and said Total Wine coming into the community has brought the price point down and for me that’s great. I don’t have a problem driving 15 minutes to Bloomington to purchase something that might be a lower price but to have a store that would bring this much traffic probably to the level of an outlet mall, I’m really not in favor of. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much Mr. Franklin. I would like to ask Mr. Cooper if you wouldn’t mind addressing a question for me please. The size of the store is proposed at 19,000 square feet. Can you give the dimensions or the size of other stores that you have in the Twin Cities? Would you mind speaking at the podium? If you know off the top of your head. Edward Cooper: I’ll try my best. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Edward Cooper: The Bloomington store is somewhere around, is somewhere close to 18,000 square feet. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Burnsville. Edward Cooper: The Burnsville store I believe is somewhere around 24,000 square feet. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Edward Cooper: The Roseville store is a little bit larger. It’s about 28,000 square feet. 32 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Woodbury, do you know? Edward Cooper: And Woodbury I believe is somewhere around 25. Mayor Laufenburger: And how about the proposed in Maple Grove? Or approved. Edward Cooper: The one in Maple Grove I believe is 24. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, thank you for that clarification Mr. Cooper. Anybody else to address the council? I welcome your comments. Jason Kleinprintz: Jason Kleinprintz. My wife and I own the MGM store here in Chanhassen. On behalf of our employees and our family thank you for the privilege of having a liquor license in Chanhassen. It’s great to be a part of this community. Nice small community. We feel that the community is being served very well today by the existing liquor stores. There are a variety of products contained in a lot of convenient locations across town today by family owned businesses whose money all stays in the community. We send our kids to Chapel Hill. We go to restaurants here. Medical services here. We buy prescriptions here. Our money goes back into the community. Yes we also give back to local charities. We like to support things around town but in the case of Total all the money leaves town other than a few token donations or something that they may make so it’s very different than a family who lives in the community and you know we really try to be part of the community so we believe that if you approve this and what we see as a very different town. We see Chanhassen as totally different from all these other destination areas where people go to Bloomington. They drive through Bloomington to work and back home through Bloomington and through Woodbury and through Burnsville. They go to Burnsville to go to Sears. They go there to go to a baby store. They go to REI. They go to Mall of America or Southdale. There isn’t all that other specialty high end retail that you know in a small community like this we just don’t have and can’t support and so 65 percent you know that we’re talking about, they’re already people driving through those communities all the time and people coming into those communities for a variety of different things and so we feel that, because most of our customers here come from within just a small radius, a few miles and we’re basically serving the community we believe this would be a trade out for other existing businesses today that we’re putting money back into the community. We’ve been part of what’s built the community and serving the community over the last quite a few years so we’re asking you, it’s not that we oppose competition. In fact we embrace competition. We have never opposed a new liquor license in the past. We think competition makes businesses sharper. It brings better pricing to customers. What we oppose is an uneven playing field that this will generate and again it’s going to cause a trade out of the existing businesses that are here today and what you’ll see is actually decreased competition over time as existing small businesses go away. You’re going to see decreased convenience because a lot of these locations won’t be available anymore and you’ll see just a few of these small businesses left in what we believe is a community that a big box store like this just, it doesn’t fit. Mayor Laufenburger: May I ask you a question? 33 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Jason Kleinprintz: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: What do you mean by an uneven playing field? You’re a, you said that you embrace competition. Jason Kleinprintz: I embrace competition. Mayor Laufenburger: That you think it sharpens stores, I would agree with you. That’s my experience that I’ve been in in the past. But describe what you mean by this uneven playing field. Can you do so Jason? Jason Kleinprintz: I don’t have the market power to bring in private labels. What Total’s business model is, and I don’t want to sit and just trash talk a competitor but what their business model is, by and large and it’s apparent to retailers. I don’t know if it’s always apparent to people who aren’t in the business but what their business model is, is to price everything that everybody else sells at or near cost so thus predatory pricing. It might be a few cents higher or lower or around cost and hide those products in their stores. You’ll see those in the ads. Very cheap. It’s everything everybody else sells. Drain all the profit out for everybody else and then re-route people to their own private label store brands which are a very high mark up. We’ve seen that in the Star Tribune articles. We’ve seen that in you know over and over in a lot of different ways. Secondly we just, we don’t have anything close to the buying power. We don’t have, just we don’t have the dollars to invest to market like they do. In a small town, small businesses, it’s just very difficult to compete with a big box like that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Jason you mentioned the private labels and the reason I’m asking you these questions is because I applaud you for stepping forward here. You’re the first of the business owners I think to do so thank you very much. I have heard reports of other liquor store owners who compete with Total Wine by actually going out and buying the same products that, private label products that Total Wine has in their stores and pricing them lower than Total Wine. Have you heard of that as well? Jason Kleinprintz: And it may be something that we have to do should you approve this. Yes, there are a lot of facets to our business strategy that probably would have to change should you approve this. My hope is that you’ll see this isn’t a good fit for the community. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Jason Kleinprintz: And deny this. And support you know the local businesses that are already here. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Jason Kleinprintz: What you’re going to have is, the pie is only so big and so when you put a big, huge entrant in here with incredible market power some businesses are not going to make it and you’re going to divert people over to somebody who’s got, the rest are on an even playing field. I guess I thought this was implicit but a, somebody with huge financial resources has the 34 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 staying power to be able to come into the market and just price, price, price, price everybody down even if I bring some of their things in and price them a little bit less than what they do, they can just match that and they can out wait me. They’ll just wait, wait, wait until me or whoever it is goes away and then they can just bring their prices back up after the competition is gone. If new entrants come back in they can just dip their prices down a little bit again and take all the profit out so I apologize if that was implicit but just the incredible financial resources that these people have exceeds, completely exceeds the value of the private labels as well. I just I brought that up because I didn’t know that everybody would understand that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Jason. Appreciate your… Jason Kleinprintz: Thank you for the opportunity to do business in this community, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Excuse me, I did not mean to slight Mr. Slattery. My apology okay. Your name please. Jay Kronick: My name is Jay Kronick. I was not planning to speak. This is impromptu. Mayor Laufenburger: Would you state your address please? th Jay Kronick: 19900 West 78 Street. I’m also a partner in the Chanhassen Haskell’s store. I’ve owned and operated a business on that property since 1988. I had Lotus Lawn and Garden there before. I think about this in perspective and where the city is and where it’s going and I think this is the key issue for a lot of people here. I started an independent garden center. I worked there 6 ½ days a week in the summer time 7 days a week. I got 2 months off in the winter. I raised my family. Put my kids through college. Never lived in Chanhassen. I was close by. I’ve always been part of the community and I think that’s what the gentleman was just speaking to. There are a number of businesses here who have, have that loyalty and that relationship with the town. We have a responsibility when we shape and plan our town to provide for the citizens and the business community. I think historically about what happened in the garden industry and with the big box stores. That word’s been tossed around here a bit and I think ultimately what, everyone here shops at Home Depot for their garden supplies. I would venture to bet everybody does. Mayor Laufenburger: Wait, Menards. Jay Kronick: Menards, yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Garden by the Woods. Jay Kronick: Loews. Mayor Laufenburger: Halla. Mustard Seed. There’s a few of them. Jay Kronick: There are a few. Much of the business migrated there. It was to the detriment. I managed in my case, as will some of the wine and spirit operators in Chanhassen to continue to 35 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 run profitable businesses and make a go of it. That’s not my worry. My concern is what that big box homogenation, homogenization does to the nature of a town and Chanhassen has followed more of the Excelsior, Stillwater, small town model. Been on the suburban fringe for all these years. This is my observation and I guess it’s a defining moment here in a sense. There seems to be some concern in the community as to whether this is opening the gates to a different model for retailing. Whether it’s appropriate or not I think is what the City’s got to answer here tonight in part. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Jay Kronick: Thanks for your time. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Kronick. Appreciate it. Anybody else? Good evening. Shelley McAndrews: Good evening. My name is Shelley McAndrews and I am a new proud resident of Chanhassen. Mayor Laufenburger: Welcome. Shelley McAndrews: Thank you. I appreciate that. Mayor Laufenburger: You want to give us your address. Shelley McAndrews: I live on Kimberley Lane, 888 Kimberley Lane. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Shelley McAndrews: And I also wanted to address another side of Total Wine and Spirits. I’ve actually sold wine for 31 years and I can’t tell you the difference that it’s made in this industry with Total Wine approach so close to home. My territory is Victoria, Chanhassen, Chaska, Excelsior, to name a few and I have seen so many of the citizens of Chanhassen and surrounding areas suffer so greatly. I’ve seen fellow cohorts go out of business. I’ve seen many liquor stores on the verge of going out of business. What I believe the model to be is, you come into an area. Drop the prices. Put people out of business and then as we put people out of business we raise the prices back up and I really believe that that is Total’s model and I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen a big price discrepancy when I was visiting other states and I went to check out the prices, which are much higher in other established areas in the United States for Total. So I do see that the game plan, I see the future game plan here and I just wanted to touch on the fact that all these small retail stores who have supported the community, the small community with their tax dollars, are now up against the big giant and so I ask you for opposition for Total Wine and Spirits in Chanhassen. Thank you for your time. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Ms. McAndrews. Appreciate it. Dick Grones: I’m going to move it this time. Hi I’m Dick Grones with Cambridge Commercial Realty. I’m representing Northcott, the property owners. 36 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Just a second. Say your name again please. Dick Grones: Dick Grones, G-r-o-n-e-s, 6200 Virginia Avenue North. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Dick Grones: And this land has kind of been the same way since God made it and we’d love to sell it. That’s our position in this thing but you know beyond that we, we do know Total Wine as a retail broker and the experience in a Total Wine store is quite a bit different than in an 1,800 foot cooler that just sells cold beer. You know the liquor store format is much different and we’ve looked at their concept and they’re just, you know they’re a superstar in the industry and we’ve also looked at how it impacts the surrounding land area because we own a couple of the properties there as well. Northcott as you know has, we have our corporate headquarters here. We have 200, about 150 employees here in Chan and 1,200 country wide and been a strong supporter of this community and good corporate citizen for many years and we’d love to see this land get developed in this way because we view it as really compatible with the surrounding land uses. Redstone would be nice but Redstone or those kind of restaurants go where they have visibility because a lot of restaurant business is impulse generated and if you hide sometimes you don’t get so much customers and they’re more destinational because of what they’re doing in the stores. Because there’s wine tasting. There’s education. There’s all kinds of things in their liquor store that are totally different than what I’ve heard tonight but anyway we’re interested in seeing the land be developed in this way and we wanted to go on record to communicate that. Mayor Laufenburger: So you would be in favor of the license, is that correct? Dick Grones: We’d be in favor of the license. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you very much Dick. Alright. Next. Welcome. Michael Clausen: Hello. I’m Michael Clausen, Chanhassen resident. I’m the Vice President of Public Relations for Vintage Liquor. I’m also the CEO and the COO and the janitor and the Vice President of watering the plants. We are a. Mayor Laufenburger: Excuse me, you report to theChairwoman don’t you? Michael Clausen: I do. I do. I’m not in charge but, so and we are a family business and I understand you guys are family owned and I’m a 30 year veteran of the industry so I’m well aware of Total Wine and kudos to the job you’ve guys done. You’re a huge, giant, $2 billion dollar corporate. The largest wine and spirits retailer in the country and that’s kudos. You’ve done a great job so, but I’m really here, I wasn’t planning on speaking tonight but I don’t want to talk as a retail liquor owner. I’m going to talk as an almost 20 year resident of Chanhassen who’s raising my kids here. I go to church here. They go to school here. They’re involved in athletics. All sorts of things here. I’m involved in lots of community activities and things like that here. I love this community you know. I want to see it grow and prosper. I want to see that parcel of land Dick developed as well as you do but I want to see smart growth and positive 37 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 growth and things that Chanhassen can be proud of. Things that have made us one of the best places in the country to live and I want to continue to be that. And adding a 20,000 square foot almost anything but certainly another liquor store to the landscape is not in the best interest of Chanhassen and that’s what I would ask the council and Mr. Mayor to take into consideration. What’s in this for Chanhassen? Is this right for Chanhassen? I know the developer wants it. I know Total Wine is making a big investment in the state and they want to see a return on their investment but I ask you what’s in it for Chanhassen? And the citizens of Chanhassen and my kids who like to bike over to Culver’s once in a while for some frozen custard or something like that, is this what we want there? That’s not what that particular piece of property was built for. You know I’m not, I wasn’t in favor of the other specialty grocery store because I don’t think that’s what we need and want here either. Or some big box stores. We have those things. Nobody in Chanhassen is being denied the Total Wine experience or the Trader Joe’s experience or any other experience. It’s all fairly close to us. But what we’re hear and what we love about this community is that it’s a small, kind of a small town, hometown feeling you know and that’s why we’re here. We’re not, we’re here, we don’t want to be Maple Grove. We don’t want to be Woodbury. We want to be Chanhassen. One of the best places in the country to live and we want to keep it that way and I ask that you consider that when you’re making your decision here tonight. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Clausen. Anybody else wishing to speak? Your name and address please. Dan Keyport: Good evening Mr. Mayor, council members. My name is Dan Keyport. I live at 1073 Falls Curve in Chaska and I’m the owner of Dolce Vita Wine Shop in Chaska. Mr. Mayor I noted that you indicated at the beginning of your remarks that the key issue for you was do they comply with the regulations and the requirements. Mayor Laufenburger: Actually Mr. Keyport that was a question that I asked of our attorney and he stated legally what’s yeah, so keep going. Dan Keyport: And I would respectfully submit that your mandate is broader than that and another aspect to consider would be the integrity of the applicant. One of the materials in your packet was a letter from the Minnesota License Beverage Association. Think for a minute how extraordinary this is that the MLBA, which is charged with supporting the liquor stores in the state of Minnesota would say yeah but not this one. The reason that they cite in their letter is that the business practices of Total Wine are predatory and abusive and I think we’ve had some comments to that effect tonight. One of the comments that was made is their business model. Is they advertise national brands at cost and the job of their sales people is to redirect people to store brands and their margins on store brands are breathtaking. I mean I’m impressed with what they’re doing on store brands. It’s crazy but in one way of considering that is classic bait and switch. We’re going to advertise this. We’re going to sell you that. Secondly they advertise wine redirect on their brands. A great benefit of wine redirect, they cut out the middle man. Well in Minnesota that’s illegal. The rest of us retailers are constrained under the three tier system of distribution. Now they wave the paperwork under the nose of a compliant wholesaler and say yep, yeah we bought that from a wholesaler but they’ve contracted with the winery. They’ve contracted with the wine maker. It ships in their trucks. I mean it’s not the three tier 38 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 system of distribution which is the law of the land in anything but name only. And so either in that case when they say wine redirect in their ads, they’re either breaking the law by cutting out the middle man or they’re false advertising because that is illegal to do that. So I think that ongoing deceptive business practice along with the accumulated evidence of violations and fines, I mean you’ve got that all in your packets. There’s lots of history there of lots of bad behavior and really pretty sustained disdain for the law and I think that really ought to be a key consideration in deciding whether or not to grant them a license. Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Keyport. Karey White: Hello. I’m Karey White, currently 2823 Coach Place in Arboretum Village but in 23 short days I’m moving to Chanhassen Estates. So excited. Out of the townhome. Into my forever home and I really wish my husband was here. He actually works on the distribution side of Johnson Brothers in St. Paul. It’s been his only job since college. 16 years so he knows the business inside and out. Mayor Laufenburger: Ms. White can I just stop you for a second? Karey White: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: First of all just take a deep breath, okay. Karey White: I know I get so shaky. I talk all the time. I just wish my husband was here to say it so I didn’t have to say it on his behalf. Mayor Laufenburger: Carrie, you’re going to do just fine. Karey White: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: But I want before you continue I want you to tell me whether you’re speaking in favor of or in opposition. Karey White: Okay I am in opposition. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Carrie. Karey White: We’ve been married for 8 years. He’s been in the business for 16 and when we found out Total was thinking of coming into Chanhassen he just groaned and was just like previous speakers have said, not the same type of competition with store size and he’s gotten to know a lot of people in the industry and when I found out how, just seeing how upset he was it just, I wanted to say maybe for the sake of my marriage please oppose or deny this. It’s been a great 8 years. Mayor Laufenburger: Well Ms. White you are officially on record saying you oppose it so how could we possibly challenge you? 39 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Karey White: Well it would maybe make things a little happier I guess. He does business in the local stores currently. We love shopping at the local stores and we’ll continue to do so, so thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Ms. White. Nice to see you again. Steve Fredricks: Good evening, Steve Fredricks, 8955 Southwest Village Loop in Chanhassen and I’m opposed to the approval of this and the reason is for traffic reasons in my mind. I’m the elderly biker. Not the elderly walker that goes through that area and I addressed that at the Planning Commission meeting and I think that a 1995 approval, maybe a study, things have changed and should be updated because I don’t think it’s a great area for people to be walking and biking based on my experience. Second just a question. Could somebody answer the question regarding this ratio that keeps getting thrown out? Mayor Laufenburger: What ratio are? Steve Fredricks: It was liquor stores to people. Somebody said that. Mayor Laufenburger: What’s your question? Steve Fredricks: Somebody said that we were, Chanhassen was number 4 and with approval of this we would be number 1. Does anyone know the answer or the numbers? Mayor Laufenburger: Well your question is addressed to me. Steve Fredricks: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: Currently let’s assume that the Chanhassen population, get your calculator handy Chelsea if you wouldn’t mind. Currently Chanhassen has a population estimated to be 24,655. We currently have 7 off sale liquor licenses. What does that translate to? Chelsea Petersen: 3,522. Mayor Laufenburger: So we have 1 liquor store per 3,522 residents of Chanhassen. Audience: No. Mayor Laufenburger: One liquor store per 3,522. Audience: 21 years or older. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, excuse me. Excuse me. The calculations that I’ve seen Mr. Fredricks in answer to your question is how many liquor stores per residents, citizens in a city. That’s what I’ve seen. Steve Fredricks: Yeah. 40 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: So the calculation that I just gave you is according to the calculator from Ms. Petersen, 1 liquor store off sale license per 3,522 citizens, residents of Chanhassen. No question, okay. Steve Fredricks: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: I don’t know where that ranks in the city. Steve Fredricks: Okay I was looking for the ranking comparison. Mayor Laufenburger: I know there are some that have more. Some that have less. I know some of those cities that have municipal liquor stores have substantially fewer liquor stores per residents by choice of the city so. Steve Fredricks: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: So does that… Steve Fredricks: So it’s not significant to you guys. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh I’m not saying it’s not significant but I’m just trying to deal with the fact okay. Steve Fredricks: Great, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Mr. Fredricks. Anybody else wishing to address the council at this time? Kelly Morlock: Mr. Mayor, council. My name is Kelly Morlock. I live at 2325 Boulder Road in Chanhassen. I’ve lived here since 1994 and I’m opposed to Total Wine. Mayor Laufenburger: Nice to have you here Mr. Morlock. Kelly Morlock: Thank you. I spent 24 years with a wine and liquor distributor so I’ve worked with Sam’s Clubs. I’ve worked with Trader Joe’s. Haskell’s. MGM’s and various municipalities. Right now with the way the building is set I can’t believe that the back of the building is going to be facing Main Street. The businesses on the other side of the street with huge personal investments are going to be facing the back of a large, big box retail building. And so to kind of put in the back, the essence they’re turning their back on Main Street. The liquor store will share a parking lot or parking with a church or a school and other cities don’t allow this. There’s been a little bit of talk about some of the signage and the variances. I don’t have a problem with the variances as long as it’s on the front of the building. Leave the other 3 sides at the size that they’re at but at the front of the building, if they want to go larger to be seen by Highway 5, I think that’s not a bad idea. Other developments can soon follow suit. I think Century would like to have a larger, be seen by 5 or Cheers probably to be seen by Highway 5. 41 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 They’re about the same distance. As far as traffic goes, let’s see. As far as traffic goes, currently there are more than 35 wine and liquor distributors that will be servicing Total Wine and Spirits. They’ll be delivering sometimes twice a week. Great big, large semi-trucks. There’s also half a dozen beer trucks that will be going down those streets. A couple of soda trucks. Ice trucks. Craft beer trucks. They’re all going to be looking to get the business in Total Wine. They’ll be driving down either Lake Drive or down Main Street and all those pavers that are at the intersection are probably going to be probably eliminated. As far as the Total Wine ownership, Minnesota Fine Wines and Spirits, LLC doing business as Total Wine. The majority of the ownership, 67 percent is in trusts with the beneficiaries under 21. Majority ownership of this store would be kids so if within the trust and the situation mom and dad die, the people that will be running Total Wine and Spirits in the largest liquor store in the middle of Chanhassen will be under 21. I think that if I wanted to open up a bar or tobacco shop and have it in the name of my kids, I don’t think it would pass mustard with Chanhassen. A few numbers that just I’ve been kind of Goggling around. Right now Total Wine has a 117 stores, doing over 1 ½ billion dollars. That’s an average of $13 to $14 million dollars per store. All 3 Lakeville stores do about the same amount of volume. That’s just a little bit below all 3 Edina stores. As far as their volume goes. Traffic studies and specialty retail studies for staff, my experience in the industry and growth plan…here are some other numbers to kind of consider. The selling days to do that type of volume is right around 311 selling days. A majority of the business is going to be Thursday through Saturday so if you took 13 ½ million dollars and divided by the selling days its right around $43,400 a day. The average ring right now in Chanhassen is right around $35 or $40. If you applied that same customer base to go into those, that store you’re looking at 1,240 transactions every day. That’s Monday through Saturday. Stores are open 13 hours a day roughly. 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. so even if you doubled the average ring, because it would be a destination store, you’re still talking about 95 transactions per hour. Or about 45, 50 transactions. Excuse me. That’s still a lot of traffic. That’s a lot of deliveries going up and down those streets and I think if the store under performs they’ll close it. That’s all I ask right now, ask for a moratorium on it. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much Mr. Morlock. I have a couple questions that came from that before the next individual. This may require Mr. Cooper your comments. Could I ask you to just step aside for a second Kelly. Mr. Cooper, can you speak to, can you speak to what Kelly referred to as the average ring. I think what he was referring to was the average sale. Edward Cooper: Sure the average sale. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah. Edward Cooper: I think he’s a little bit inaccurate if he’s going to. Mayor Laufenburger: Can you correct our understanding here? Edward Cooper: Well for us our average ring is closer to $55 or $60. 42 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: So he did acknowledge that even if that was doubled. I don’t know about the rest of the calculations but you, you seem to sell, when people come into your store they buy more than just a convenience. Edward Cooper: That’s exactly, we’re not a convenience store. We’re a destination. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. And then the other thing Mr. Cooper is, in the packet it was made clear to us that the ownership of the organization is a portion of the ownership is with the two Trone brothers, is that correct? Edward Cooper: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And the rest are in. Edward Cooper: In generation skipping trusts for the children of both David and Robert Trone. Mayor Laufenburger: And we know, Mr. Knutson I think you made this judgment is that correct that there is nothing that would prevent that organizational structure from doing business as Total Wine in Chanhassen, is that correct? Roger Knutson: That is correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So are the rest of the stores around the country, are they organized essentially the same way? Edward Cooper: Exactly the same way. Mayor Laufenburger: How about the operating manager? Have you identified the manager of the store? Edward Cooper: That’s a good question. I don’t know. Audience: Yes. Edward Cooper: Have we? Mayor Laufenburger: There was a name, somebody by the name of Kuzman . Dustin Kuzman, is that correct? Edward Cooper: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: And is he a Minnesota resident? Edward Cooper: He is. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you very much Mr. Cooper. 43 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Edward Cooper: Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, next person. Kelly Morlock: There are other stores that they had to change their. Mayor Laufenburger: Just a second. You can come up to the mic Kelly. Kelly Morlock: I’ll sit in the… Mayor Laufenburger: No it’s important that people who are observing this on Mediacom cable channel 8. Kelly Morlock: I believe there were other stores up, either Bloomington or Woodbury, I forget which one but there was another store that the City declined it because of that same situation as far as the trust. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, we’ll clarify that Mr. Morlock. Thank you for that question. Brad Bowman: My name Brad Bowman. I live at 8667 Stonefield Lane in Chanhassen. I’ve been a Chanhassen resident for 14 years. Watched the city grow. I’m in favor of Total Wine and the reason is I think the development is appropriate for the location and I think that competition is good for the consumer. I think all of us here who want to maintain the small town aspect of Chanhassen, I think that’s terrific but frankly I think the horse is kind of out of the barn here. The demographics and the population within Chanhassen are going to be attractive to a lot of big retailers so this isn’t the first and this isn’t the last time we’re going to see stuff like this. So I’m in favor of them. I think the competition is good for the community and that’s it. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Mr. Bowman. Let me just compliment all of you for the manner in which you’re addressing the council. This is a great testament to the community of Chanhassen. Next please. Jan Jacobson: Hello, I’m Jan Jacobson and my address is 4165 Lakeridge Road in Chanhassen. I’ve lived here about 18 years and I love it. I love the bustling activity of Chanhassen. The participation of the small businesses and I think we need to be very aware to not take our business community and our business health for granted and I’ll tell you about an experience I had by accident. Closer to the Memorial Day weekend I happened to drive into the parking lot of the Bloomington Total Wine, which is next to Trader Joe’s and some of the other box stores. I drove in just for a couple of things but it wasn’t for wine. I was going to another store. The traffic was horrendous. It was just out, people couldn’t even move. I mean they were running back and forth. Traffic was jammed up and I couldn’t get out of there fast enough. It was just awful so I would hate to see that kind of a destination for the Ponds area. People coming from Chaska and Excelsior and everywhere else as a destination location. I can’t imagine it. I couldn’t leave there fast enough. I’m very concerned about Chanhassen. I love it but we need to 44 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 be very aware that the infrastructure of our business community could be easily destroyed in the name of free trade or whatever so we need to think about that. Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Ms. Jacobson. Just a moment please, Councilwoman Tjornhom has a question. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you Mayor. Ms. Aanenson I’d like to ask you about the zoning and that area. We’re throwing around the term big box a lot. Was that area originally zoned for this size entity to come in? Kate Aanenson: …maximum was 20,000 square feet. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay so that has never changed? Kate Aanenson: Yeah again you know if you look at the history of time, one of the things that we always hoped to get was to get a grocer there. We actually had potentially with 2 grocers there. Again those grocers generated a lot of traffic. They also have back sides to the parking area but we think we’ve done a good job with this application and the one before that for the grocer but yes, there were things, we looked at more delicatessens and that sort of things in that area but you know that model’s changed since we approved it in 1995 but I think if you look overall the way we saw that develop. The mixed use is in there has come to fruition. It may not be the exact same, what we envisioned in 1995 but the overall development intensity is less than what we envisioned in 1995 because we’ve got less uses. Less residential. Less office. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And this area’s always been available for restaurants. Specialty restaurants to come in. Kate Aanenson: They worked hard since 1995. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Other specialty stores, correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct, yes. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And it’s just never come to fruition where that’s happened? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay before you address the, or step to the microphone. Are there any other questions from council while we have this break? Okay, please your name and address and in favor or opposition. Ed Vigil: I’m in favor. My name is Ed Vigil. I’m the owner of Bokoo Bikes, 550 Lake Drive. Mayor Laufenburger: Welcome Mr. Vigil. 45 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Ed Vigil: I have been in Chanhassen for 15 years. 16 years now and I’ve been looking at a pond in front of me for 15 years. It’s not a pond. It’s actually a, they dig a hole to put a parking lot at a time that it was going to be a project in 2000 so since 2000 till today I’ve seen nothing but a, what appears to be a pond to my customers but it’s not. Many things have happened in Village on the Ponds since I came into Chanhassen and the way that the whole development was originally planned has never turned out to be what it was sold to me. And I’m not complaining about that. I’m just saying that we’ve seen a lot of things in Chanhassen, specifically in Village on the Ponds that have not turned out to be what it’s supposed to be in terms of the traffic and the amount of businesses that were going to come here. It’s been very, very slow. When the other grocery store was going to come into Village on the Pond I was ecstatic. It was going to be fantastic and it didn’t work out. But when I heard that Total Wine and More was going to come in I was even more excited. I know their business model. I know how they do their stores. I think it’s going to be fantastic for Chanhassen. Obviously for me. I’m going to be in front of them. It’s going to be, the traffic is going to be great. We’ve never seen traffic like that in Village on the Ponds and it was designed to do that. It’s never been able to achieve that so I think by having them come onboard it’s going to be great. All the other statistics and stuff that I hear here is actually music to my ears because to be able to draw that kind of business for a national brand, whether its liquor or food is fantastic for Chanhassen. Especially when they’re going to be drawing people from not just from Chanhassen. Chanhassen cannot support that kind of store. They’re going to bring people from everywhere around us and that is really good business for all of us and like the other gentleman that was saying here, this is not the first one. It’s not the last one. I mean Target has been here way before me. It’s a very big store. Actually 20,000 square feet is nothing compared to Target or Prince’s place for all that matters in that regard. Mayor Laufenburger: But he doesn’t have the retail that you have… Ed Vigil: I understand but I mean it’s a big square doing nothing there but anyway. So bicycles, in my business I have to compete with Target. Target sells an $89 dollar bike. I can’t even sell two tires for $89 so when I hear all these people talk about the prices and competition, hey. That’s business. This isn’t about a residence or the traffic or somebody getting hit on their bike. I get all that but reality is, is we’re growing as a human beings in the United States and Chanhassen and Minnesota. I mean all these arguments that are being said here, I mean I respect everybody here and I hope this doesn’t hurt my business but reality is, is yeah. I mean if somebody decides to do that because I’m in favor of this. I’m in favor of this not because of the liquor side. I’m in favor of this because of the business. The amount of traffic that it will draw to Chanhassen and the great that it’s going to do. We can’t stop Chanhassen from being a small town anymore. It’s growing rapidly and it will continue to grow. Luckily it’s not developing as fast as it should because the land is in the hands of very small people and a few people so I welcome them. I think it’s going to be fantastic for Chanhassen and I can’t wait for them to start coming in. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Mr. Vigil. Anybody else? Good evening Vernelle. 46 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Vernelle Clayton: Good evening. My name is Vernelle Clayton. I live at 422 Santa Fe Circle here in Chanhassen and I am neither for nor against this proposal. Some of my friends are for and some are against it and I know like my friends so. That’s a really old joke. Mayor Laufenburger: So you’re really here for friendship is what you’re here for is that correct Vernelle? Vernelle Clayton: Yes, right. Mayor Laufenburger: By the way you do a good job at that okay. Vernelle Clayton: I did say I would come and speak if it appeared there might be any misunderstandings as to what has happened in Village on the Ponds and what has been expected to happen in Village on the Ponds because not only have I lived here long enough to become the local historian. I’ve also been involved in Village on the Ponds since its inception in 1995 and before and at that time St. Hubert’s, Kate mentioned that part of what, part of the impetus behind how it became a PUD with shared parking and all was because St. Hubert’s wanted to be there. St. Hubert’s was involved from the beginning. They were involved in drafting the Declaration of Covenants which are protective covenants to protect the values of everyone, all the investment there. They were involved in that from the beginning and Exhibit C, it’s not that it doesn’t preclude liquor stores. It specifically permits liquor stores. It’s not that St. Hubert’s overlooked anything because they did ask us if we would preclude such things as adult book stores and if you read through the declaration you’ll see, and Exhibit C you’ll see that they are precluded. So I wanted to make that clear that St. Hubert’s was a part. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you for that clarification. I think there are people that didn’t know that so thank you. Vernelle Clayton: Okay, well good. I also wanted to say a couple things about the site. The site while it, let me back up a little bit. Sizes of buildings. What we’re talking about tonight is not more than 20,000 square feet for a single user but 20,000 square feet was not the maximum size for buildings in Village on the Ponds. The process that we went through was to first have an overall sort of guide plan for each parcel that was determined to be a parcel and then various businesses would bring proposals to the Planning Commission and the council. One of the proposals was an Extended Stay hotel. That had a 26,000 square foot footprint of retail and two stories in addition to that of Extended Stay hotel and office. Now granted the parking was not entirely provided for on-site. Some of it was in the Pond that Ed was telling you about. So the sizes of the buildings, if we say that 20,000 square foot is too big because we don’t like more than 20,000 square feet here in Chan for retail buildings, that’s not fair because it only apply, it’s only limitation is to a single user. For comparison Lakewinds, which does not look, appear to be a very big building and that’s partly because of the tweaks that we made to the front and sides and so forth, is a little over 17,000 square feet. This building is a little over 19,000 so not a whole lot of difference. Mayor Laufenburger: About 10 percent larger. 47 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Vernelle Clayton: Yep. The same kind of tweaks have been applied to the sides of that building. Someone mentioned it’s too bad that the back side faces Main Street. Yeah I agree. We didn’t plan that that would be the case but the building that was just built just now completing on the other side of the street, their fronts are to the parking lot and their backs are also to Main Street. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s, you’re referring to the property that will be occupied by Hurricane Grill and Davanni’s, is that correct? Vernelle Clayton: Exactly, right. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Vernelle Clayton: Traffic, he wants it. Everybody over there would like a little more traffic. One of the reasons we have the streets as we have them is so that we can have flow traffic. If anybody can do anything about Lake Drive, the traffic we have there now is not what we want. We have dump trucks and everybody cutting through to stay, avoid a stop light. So if it’s a little more traffic, it’s a little more congested over there like I say Market Square is always congested but guess what we only have small accidents so I believe that’s, I believe that everything was. Mayor Laufenburger: Well Vernelle thank you very much for coming forward. I think you’ve given us a historical perspective and remember historians are those who survive all the failures and all the successes so there’s nothing wrong with surviving. Vernelle Clayton: And I get gray hair and thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. Let’s see. I would like, before you go Vernelle. Kate this is a question for you but Vernelle you might be able to clarify. Are all of the streets in Village on the Pond private or are they city maintained streets? Kate Aanenson: There’s two public streets, yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: What are the two public streets? Vernelle Clayton: The public portion is from Highway 5 down to Foss Swim School where it goes off to serve those neighbors. That’s the private, public part. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. The rest are all private and privately maintained by the association. Kate Aanenson: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: Privately maintained by the association. Vernelle Clayton: Right, yep. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much. Is there anybody else who would like to address the council on this matter? Please. 48 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Ray Schenk: Yes Mr. Mayor. My name’s Ray Schenk. I live at 1130 Dove Court. I’m a long time resident of Chanhassen and I would be against another liquor license being issued in the city of Chanhassen. I feel like if we look at the state statute for liquor licenses it’s broken down into a number of different ways. One way is for first class cities so large cities are only allowed to have 5,000. Or 1 liquor store for 5,000 people and as you grow and if we want to become a first class city someday we’ll have to reckon with that. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Schenk. Is it Schenk? Ray Schenk: Schenk. Mayor Laufenburger: Schenk. Let me just stop you for a second. I think you might be referring to on sale liquor licenses. Mr. Knutson are you familiar with State Code? Is there any State Code that limits the number of off sale liquor licenses in a community? Roger Knutson: Mayor there are no limitations under state law. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so you may be referring to on sale liquor licenses. Is it? Ray Schenk: No I read the Code and I urge you to. It’s 5,000 in a first class city. Mayor Laufenburger: Well let’s assume you’re correct and we’re going to have Mr. Knutson check on that. Roger Knutson: It’s right here. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so continue. Ray Schenk: Okay, well I think a limitation by numbers is really in the, the way I read it in the guidance is about having proper law enforcement and there’s certain types of situations that are involved in liquor stores and they put a tax or a burden on the community to you know support that effort. I think in a recent trip around the holidays to Bloomington Total Wine and Liquor they had police officers directing traffic because it was so backed up and I don’t know if we’re prepared to do that on Highway 101. Another issue I have is for unfair competition in the city. I view the signage and the increased signage to be unfair competition. I know we’ve talked about and we’ve heard that it’s allowed everywhere in town and I simply think that is not true. When I read the code I see that if you’re a highway business you’re allowed to have a sign on one side. This proposal says you’re allowed to have it on four sides and I think that’s unfair. I also think that it’s larger letters than are anywhere in town except for Cub Food and according to central business district codes I believe that that is allowed and we’ve since changed them. I don’t think that having this unfair advantage of multiple signage is a benefit to the community, nor do I think it’s a hardship for the applicant. All other liquor stores conform to the 30 inch sign light, or sign letter pieces and they have their frontage sign. If they face the street they’re not allowed any other signage on their building and if they don’t face the street they’re allowed to have a sign above their door. I believe that’s the code. That’s the way I’ve been reading it. It is very 49 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 complex and I know staff has had a lot of discussion about this and I’ve tried to listen and follow along to the numbers that we’ve been talking about. Traffic. One of the things that I found interesting is that when I did some research I came up with probably more conservative numbers than what the representative, the applicant representative came up with but I come up with about 440,000 visits a year to the store that meets the goals that I believe they have and that that would require 1,400 visits per day. And if you stack them in their busiest periods as a destination it would be you know 4 to 5 hour period and it’d be about 225 to 300 car visits. I think for our city I think some additional pieces for liquor stores or requirements for liquor stores are probably in order. I think that we have some rules about sexually oriented businesses. That they can be no closer than 500 feet to public, private or elementary or secondary schools, licensed daycares, residential districts, family residential buildings, public parks, city hall, churches and public libraries. I think that that would enrich our city and give us good things in the future and not as a way to block any particular person but to make sure that our site selection is more in favor with what our values in the community are and what we’ve been seen by national magazines to bring this value to residents of the community. And I agree with what the mayor said about the number of residents per liquor store. It was 3,279 in my calculation which is pretty close to your’s. Chelsea Petersen: And it is in the packet and I was able to find the exact numbers if you want that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Ray Schenk: Finally one last, or two things I have very quickly is we talked about the pond and I think by, and I’m sure the City Attorney knows this for sure but when I went through the DNR website that site that has the water in it and the wildlife type vegetation according to the DNR is over 400 square feet and requires a permit to drain. The City’s capable of issuing that but if we don’t do it then I think we’re not following the right procedures. Not saying that it shouldn’t be but I’m just saying we talked about it. It was said, it never was a wetland. It was never intended to be a wetland but it’s been called a pond. It definitely has that kind of vegetation in it and it has held water for the whole time it’s been there so it just needs to be permitted. Then the Village on the Ponds, and just looking around and looking at some different things I found that this has nothing to do with exactly the application. It’s just I found some dangerous situations that I think should be addressed and I took a few pictures of them. There’s outlets that are live. I have a tester when you don’t have to touch the plug. It will just tell you and then there’s light posts that have live wires hanging out and the light post is on and I think those are unsafe conditions and need to be corrected. Mayor Laufenburger: Well I would ask Mr. Schenk regarding those if you have specific information I would ask that you share those with our city planner and she’ll work with the developer to ensure that those unsafe conditions are remedied. Is that okay? Ray Schenk: Sure. And then I guess part of that is that I think the site has not been really well maintained since it’s been in existence and maybe a stipulation that they do proper maintenance would be a good thing moving forward. 50 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Schenk. Kate I have a question for you. That water accumulation, hole. Is that a wetland? Kate Aanenson: No. It’s acting as a storm, it holds storm water when it rains but it’s, in the original EAW that we did all that stuff was identified as wetlands and so it’s just, there’s some probably some other pockets up there that are holding water too but it does not meet a wetland criteria. Mayor Laufenburger: So obviously the plan, assuming if the plan moves forward there’s a plan to deal with the water in accordance with state statues, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct and we’ll go through that in the site plan, yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright thank you. Anybody else wishing to address the council at this time? Kelly Audette: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Please, welcome. Kelly Audette: Good evening Mayor and council members. My name is Kelly Audette. I live at 510 Summerfield Drive. I’ve been a resident of Chanhassen for 15 years and I just have a few questions actually. We’ve talked about the square footage of the store but my concern is how is the layout of the building going to be on that land? My reason for asking is I have two brand new drivers and we enjoy going to Culver’s. Going to Lakewinds and I just don’t see how it’s going to fit on that property. Where’s the front? Where’s the back? Where are the sides? Where are trucks going to come in and out of? For the gentleman who owns Bookoo Bikes, where are his customers going to park because right now as I see it he has one row of parking but is that going to be taken up by semi-trucks coming in and out? So for the community who lives here what is it going to look like and also where are we going to park? There’s no parking lot there so that’s my first question. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay well let me answer that. Kelly Audette: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s very clearly articulated in the second part, I guess it would be H(1)(b). The site plan shows very specifically where the building is to be situated and where the parking is to be situated. Kelly Audette: Okay and is that out for the public to view? Mayor Laufenburger: It is. That was part of the packet this evening. Kelly Audette: Okay we didn’t, we were told not to, there were only so many. 51 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah and I made it very clear before the meeting. I’m sorry if you weren’t here that it’s limited 3,400 pages. We didn’t make 80 copies of 3,400 pages. Kelly Audette: Is there on the website? Mayor Laufenburger: It’s available on the City website, that’s correct. Kelly Audette: Okay, great because as a member of the community I’d like to know where the trucks are coming in and out of so that I do have new drivers so they’re avoiding any traffic. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Kelly Audette: And then also with that has anyone spoken to the residents of Summerwood who live right there who I see every time you go into that area, there are elderly folks walking up and down those sidewalks. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, let me answer that question. Kelly Audette: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Kate have we made notification to Presbyterian Homes about this? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Everyone within 500 feet was notified for the Planning Commission public hearing so. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay and did we have any comments whatsoever from people, either the managers or residents? Kate Aanenson: There was a letter in there that someone had written regarding that specific issue but again we looked at it similarly to, which we’ll talk about, the traffic with the potential grocery store, how that would. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay so it’s our clearly our practice. We have a protocol that we follow that any time a development takes place we communicate with, directly with people within 500 feet, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Kelly Audette: When were they notified? Kate Aanenson: Before the Planning Commission hearing which was back in. th Mayor Laufenburger: July 7. th Kate Aanenson: Thank you July 7. 52 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Kelly Audette: Okay, and then were they also notified because you know were they notified of this meeting in a way that they would, I’m sure a lot of those people don’t have Smart Phones. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, Kelly I don’t know how the managers of Presbyterian Homes communicate with their residents and my guess is some of the residents might have known. Perhaps don’t know any more. Might have forgotten. Kelly Audette: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: Whatever so, but I feel like the City has followed a protocol to ensure that everybody affected in the surrounding affected has been notified. Or at least has been given notice to this. Are you aware of some people that are not or that have not been notified? Kelly Audette: Well my concern is if they were notified one time of the child of an elderly parents, one time isn’t enough. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Kelly Audette: You know and for them have we done our due diligence with those living the in the closest proximity to this, which will be increased traffic. Mayor Laufenburger: Well I would say probably to the children of those people perhaps we haven’t done our job. However I know that Chanhassen Villager has had a piece in the newspaper at least Dick, are you still there? Three times perhaps. The Planning Commission meeting. I think it’s been circulated widely. Certainly as notice. Kelly Audette: Okay and I just wanted to voice my opinion that that’s one aspect that has not been brought up. Those people who live right there and now are going to live across the street from what could potentially be a big box so I just wanted to voice my opinion. Mayor Laufenburger: Appreciate that. Kelly Audette: And let you know that I’m opposed. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much Ms. Audette. Is there anybody else that would like to speak at the public hearing at this time? Ron Martin: …Chanhassen. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh excuse me. Yes we’re open to anybody. Come forward please. Your name and address. Ron Martin: I’m sorry, my name is Ron Martin. I am from Chanhassen. 8751 Lake Riley Drive and I’m opposed to the liquor license approval. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. 53 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Ron Martin: My comments here aren’t really to reiterate a lot of the statistics and facts but really a comment to the group west of this microphone. Mayor Laufenburger: You’re referring to the council. Ron Martin: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. Ron Martin: Sorry. But you know there are a lot of regulations that would easily permit the issuance of the license and as a council it clearly is your responsibility to make sure that that, those issues are followed but there are a lot of people that you’ve heard from tonight and yes there are people supportive of the license but I think if you listen to the overwhelming response that you’ve received, and I know you’re responsible for the community and for the growth of the community and making Chanhassen the right place to live and yes, you all know already the level of congestion that you have on the north side of Highway 5 and part of your decision impacts what’s going to happen here south of Highway 5. But my point really is simple and that is, please listen. I encourage you all to listen to the responses and the number of responses that you’ve received here that are opposed to this and you’ve got numbers of people that I’m sure have emailed you. A number of you and, not surveys but petitions that have been signed and I really encourage you to in addition to the laws and the regulations that you’re going to look at to approve this as a business, listen to the people that you all represent. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Martin. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Step forward please. Dave Carlin: Yes thank you Mayor, council members. I’m Dave Carlin. I am President of Venture Pass and we are the developer so I’m in favor obviously. I don’t live in Chanhassen but I’ve done real estate development here for 20 plus years. Our business address is 19620 Waterford Court in Shorewood. First just in terms of the notification and the communications in addition to you know all the notices within the Villager and the various venues there’s also been a sign maintained on the property for quite some time now and made an effort to reach out to a lot of the area businesses and I think you saw in your package which I mean frankly it’s unusual in my career but I’ve got written letters of support from my four most immediate neighbors including Ed Vigil and Bookoo Bikes. Houlihan’s. AmericInn and also Solomon Real Estate whose the developer of the strip center next to us who you know, by some description has got our back to them so these are all businesses. Mayor Laufenburger: Just to identify they’re the developers of the buildings that will be occupied by Hurricane Grill and Davanni’s, is that correct? Dave Carlin: Correct. Correct so they wrote a letter which is in the packet so those 4 are all included letters in support of the project. Also reached out to Lakewinds, Community State Bank, Culver’s and they’re not here you know speaking for or against but made an effort to communicate that to those folks. Just you know I’ve been in the real estate business for 35 years 54 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 and I’ve noticed one of the talking points here seems to be big box so I’ve just got to talk about that for a second. We talked about the Walmart. Walmart’s are 160-180,000 square feet. This is 20,000 square feet. Lakewinds is 18,000 square feet. You know within the PUD retail uses including liquor stores as a permitted use we’re allowed up to 20,000 square feet so we believe that we comply. I think 20,000 square feet in my business, that’s a small-medium box or maybe a big small box but doesn’t approach you know what people seem to denigrate as the Loews and the Costco’s and these what we call these true big boxes. Another point I just want to make you know in terms of my discussions and our dealings so far with Total Wine, particularly on the land use and our dealings with city staff is they’ve been extremely receptive and they’ve listened closely and they’ve made many, many accommodations in terms of their design and the function of the building that frankly I wouldn’t get from most national retailers so I think they’ve done a terrific job of listening to the community. Relative to parking, just real quick. I’m trying to hit on a few of the things that have come up. By code if this were built on it’s own we would be required to provide 96 parking spots. We’re actually constructing 164 parking spots so in terms of any of this cross utilization with the Promenade on the Pond, we’re actually going to create additional surplus parking that could be used by other users within the park so just relative to the liquor license those are some observations. Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Carlin. Is there anybody else who would like to speak? Rollie Neve: My name is Rollie Neve. I live at 7635 Nicholas Way in Chanhassen and I’m speaking in opposition primarily because of all of the reasons that have been expressed tonight. A couple things came to mind. One, the negative influence they will probably have under existing 7 liquor dealers in the city. Secondly the roads in that site are as was just noted are privately maintained and it appears to me that there’s going to be some major reconstruction of those roadways because of the higher traffic volume that’s coming in and I’m wondering if that’s going to be a cost consideration for the city of Chanhassen. Mayor Laufenburger: Let me address that if I may Mr. Neve. Rollie Neve: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Kate you can clarify this for those of us that are thinking about this. These are private streets. Does the City have any jurisdiction or authority with the developer in maintaining those streets for public conveyance? Kate Aanenson: No only in the fact just like you brought out the light pole issue. We’d follow up with the developer when there’s been complaints out there but they are private streets. It’s a HOA for commercial HOA so they manage their streets. Snow plowing and those sort of things. Mayor Laufenburger: And in the past, do you have anything from a historical perspective to indicate whether they will or will not maintain their HOA property? Kate Aanenson: Well I would assume that they would continue to maintain it. Mayor Laufenburger: They’ve demonstrated that in the past. 55 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Kate Aanenson: It’s, I don’t want to dismiss the fact that we’ve talked about this thing, this project, Vernelle and I go way back to this in 1995. They got off to a slow start and then the economy went soft and now we’re seeing an infusion now with, we just talked about the Solomon Brothers project. We had another potential user for this site so this area is, we see development. All that can help manage this project. Mayor Laufenburger: But specifically to Mr. Neve’s question, the maintenance of the private roads in this area are not the responsibility of the City taxpayers is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Mr. Neve you may continue. Rollie Neve: Well I’m just wondering if that being the case you might want to check with the people that do the maintenance and if they’re aware of the liability that they might incur. Mayor Laufenburger: I think we’re going to do that in just a moment Mr. Neve. Could I ask you to step away? Vernelle would you come, speak to that question please. Vernelle Clayton: We’ve been, the association which I manage has been aware that they are responsible for the regular maintenance of those streets since the beginning and we collect from each owner, unit owner we call them, a reserve and we currently have around $60,000 in reserve. However St. Hubert’s does not contribute to that at this point. They contribute a flat rate and if in the event it’s the decision is made that the streets have to be completely reconstructed then the City would assess on the same basis as, there is a formula for city participation then and in that case St. Hubert’s would contribute as if they were on any other street. Mayor Laufenburger: But it would be participation by the people in that PUD. Vernelle Clayton: Exactly. Mayor Laufenburger: Not other residents of Chanhassen. Vernelle Clayton: I’ll have to look at the formula to see if there’s any participation. Mayor Laufenburger: Kate can you confirm that? Kate Aanenson: I’ll ask Paul. Paul Oehme: I’m not aware of any City contributions that would be, that we’d be responsible for reconstructing those streets. Vernelle Clayton: But it would include St. Hubert’s if it’s a major. 56 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Mr. Neve I didn’t mean to cut you short. Did you have other comments that you, comments or questions? Okay, thank you very much. I believe you’re up. Renee Anderson: I have limited battery life where my notes are so lucky for you guys. My name is Renee Anderson and my address is 9380 Kiowa Trail in Chanhassen. I’ve been a resident here for 13 years. I have 3 children at St. Hubert’s and I would like to thank that lady over there for her preliminary comments about being across from an elementary school. No we don’t have a variance or any kind of a law about distance from a liquor store to a school but there are a lot of other cities that do and the idea that there is going to be, I’m going to go back to that term big box liquor store across the street from a church and school where there are a lot of kids and if you’ve ever been around St. Hubert’s when school lets out and first car riders are going home, there’s big time traffic. I encourage you to sit there at 3:45 and watch the traffic that leaves that area. I also have had my kids at Foss Swim School and anybody who’s ever had their kids there knows that parking often overflows into St. Hubert’s and onto the street and then anybody who has kids knows that kids are very unpredictable and even though you tell them a zillion times not to jump out of the car, they do. And I’d hate to see one of those delivery trucks coming down that road and somebody alluded to earlier minor accidents because the road pattern encourages slower travel speeds. However I travel that road, I can’t tell you how many times a day because as a family of 5 I go to Lakewinds just about every day. I’m at St. Hubert’s all the time and between Foss and other, just cutting through how many people speed down that road. And then the idea of adding delivery trucks to that. Mayor Laufenburger: I hope you haven’t been speeding Renee. Renee Anderson: Of course not. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Renee Anderson: So I kind of, when somebody, when it’s been alluded to or talked about the traffic study from 20 years ago, with all due respect that’s kind of funny. I think that needs to be updated because things have changed a lot. With 212 coming out, everybody sees how the traffic jams are on 212 now during rush hour. And given that Total Wine is going to make Chanhassen and that little segment of Main Street a destination place and we’ve already heard about how traffic cops have to regulate traffic flow in and out of Total Wine parking lots, where’s that going to come from if we face the same situation in Chanhassen when we don’t have our own police force and we use Carver County? Mayor Laufenburger: Public safety is the responsibility of the City of Chanhassen. We contract with the Carver County Sheriff’s Office. They operate much more efficiently than a police department but the public safety of the citizens of Chanhassen is the responsibility of this council. The city staff and the Carver County Sheriff’s Office. Renee Anderson: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: It’s our responsibility. 57 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Renee Anderson: I don’t know, there is a heck of a lot of traffic already going up and down that road. I don’t know that for some of the businesses that have expressed their support, Bookoo and Houlihan’s and I know AmericInn has expressed it. I don’t know that it’s going to bring in the kind of traffic that they’re necessarily looking for. I don’t know that they’re going to go from the liquor store to Bookoo Bikes to buy a bike. Maybe, maybe not. They might to go AmericInn and get a room for the night. After Houlihan’s cuts them off. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah let me just clarify. Well if they’re attempting to go to an off sale liquor store after Houlihan’s cuts them off at 2:00 p.m., I don’t think you’re going to find an open one in Chanhassen. Renee Anderson: No but there could be chaos in the streets. I live next door to somebody who’s been in the liquor industry for years. He’s a liquor distributor and when he, we have talked about this I can’t believe how many times and he is jumping up and down and he benefits from this industry. I won’t tell you the exact words he uses because it’s not fit for public consumption but he said the storm that that’s going to unleash is not what the City wants in terms of traffic and so forth. Mayor Laufenburger: How’s your battery? Renee Anderson: Getting low. Oh and also the fact that Davanni’s and Hurricane are going to be opening now we’ve got even more traffic coming in. Some people might say well Lakewinds has delivery trucks coming in but let’s look at the nature of that business. Those are mostly locally owned suppliers that are coming in with very small trucks all things considered. I’m there every day. I see it. I wonder, I’ve been increasingly concerned about the kinds of approvals that have been granted. I noticed, I live right down the street now from an E-Cig store. I’m kind of wondering how that happened. Mayor Laufenburger: To what are you referring Renee? Renee Anderson: There’s an E-Cig store that is in the little strip mall that is right behind Kwik Trip off of 212 and 101. I don’t think it’s open yet. It’s right in the same strip mall as the Vintage. It is open? I don’t know anybody who vapes. Doesn’t really seem to fit with our demographics so we want liquor and we have vaping. Is this the kind of message we want to send? Is this the kind of, this is a family oriented city and it seems like we’re kind of going in a direction that doesn’t fit so. Mayor Laufenburger: Any other comment Ms. Anderson? Renee Anderson: No. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. Renee Anderson: Thank you. 58 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Glad you’re here tonight. Is there, how many more people would like to speak tonight? Let’s keep going. Henry Gallagher: I might be the last one. Mayor Laufenburger: You might. Henry Gallagher: Henry Gallagher, 215 Lakeview Road East. No pun intended, I’m totally against the expansion of Total Wine and Spirit here in Chanhassen. I understand there needs to be growth. I understand. That’s what, how cities you know evolve. But it has to be the smart growth. It has to be the right growth. I know you want your land developed. I totally understand that but do we need a seventh or I’m sorry, an eighth liquor store? You guys have got a tough job tonight. You guys really have a tough job. Do you want to listen to 99.9 percent of the people or do you want to listen to these guys? I’m sure they did everything right. I’m sure they dotted every I, crossed every T. Did everything right but let’s look at Chan, not 5 years from now. Not 10 years from now. 15 years from now. What kind of city do we want to be? It’s got to be the right balance and I don’t think Total Wine and Spirits is the right balance at this time. Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Gallagher. Anybody else wish to address the council at this time? Okay, before I close the public hearing, let’s see. Actually I think I’m going to close the public hearing and bring this back to the council and first of all let me repeat again. I thank all of you who chose to speak tonight and the energy that it takes. The energy and a little bit of nerve it takes to sit in front of a microphone like that and address the council so I’m very, I’m very proud to say that this public process was very encouraging for me. So I will close the public hearing at this time and I’m going to bring this back to the council for any questions of either staff or the applicant. And let’s start, Mr. Campion do you have any questions? Councilman Campion: I have one question at this time. This is for staff. Mr. Gerhardt, has City Council denied a request for off sale liquor license since 2005 when the limit on liquor licenses was lifted? Todd Gerhardt: Not that I’m aware of. No. Councilman Campion: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: Anything else? I’m not saying you can’t ask any more. Councilman Campion: No that’s it at this time. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, any other council member wishing to raise a question? Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor I have a few questions. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan, yes. 59 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Ryan: I don’t know if this goes to Mr. Gerhardt or Ms. Aanenson. I know it’s been asked, some of my questions have been asked and answered but the one question that I had that I still don’t have an answer to was that the traffic study was done 20 years ago, and I think it was mentioned as we all know that the population in this whole region has dramatically changed in the last 20 years. I know we need traffic studies for a lot of things, whether its stop signs, taking crosswalks to parks you know at different intersections. We always perform these traffic studies for a lot of the developments that come about. Why has there not been a traffic study for this? This project. Kate Aanenson: To be clear on the EAW and the purpose of that was to estimate potential trip generation by different uses so our point being in the literature that we have for the site plan review is that this development is not being developed to the level that it was anticipated. The traffic is less than was anticipated. Significantly less because we expected a lot more intensity of development in this development. Councilwoman Ryan: But that’s the, I struggle with that because that’s the level of development and I know that there’s some numbers and in the report it talks about buildings. Square footage and what that generates for traffic but again that was 20 years ago so, and as Mr. Cooper has stated they want this to be a regional draw and so if this is a regional draw 20 years later than it was originally put forth before council, how has this not, or why has this not been reviewed? Kate Aanenson: Well I think part of it is the perception too. The fact that there hasn’t been anything out there for a while so people get used to that level of development. I think when Lakewinds came in, I’m over at Lakewinds too. There’s trucks there coming and going. There’s people cutting through on that road and their peak times at St. Hubert’s but that was all anticipated with the development. Again this is not built to the same intensity. The height of the buildings. Vernelle Clayton talked about the hotel that was anticipated there. Another hotel with retail underneath so that would have generated a significant amount. We’re having, so you’re trading out all those, and so again the ultimate threshold of traffic and trips is not going to be the same level that was anticipated in 1995. It’s going to be less than. So if you’re looking for traffic to say which directions are the trucks coming from is. Councilwoman Ryan: Well it’s not, well that is an issue obviously with you know the challenges we have with maintenance on our roads anyway. Kate Aanenson: Sure, sure. Councilwoman Ryan: You know now big trucks coming in. It is a safety concern. We do look at traffic patterns when we do traffic reports and you know I go back to, from the report and the Planning Commission that they asked about the roads and he said that the property manager on those issues was hoping to get some resolve with that to make that area a little bit better drivability for the residents because of the complaints so you know we are aware that it’s an issue. A traffic issue and then you’re going to put in a 19,000 square foot regional draw. I just don’t know how a traffic study hasn’t been performed. 60 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Kate Aanenson: Sure. I guess I’d go back to the specialty grocer which also would have been a regional draw based on that type of use that they were looking at plus the additional 8,000 square feet and that issue didn’t come up and they also would have the truck delivery so we said it’s still within that same threshold so that’s how we viewed that because that also would have been drawing probably from Eden Prairie, Shorewood, parts of Minnetonka too because of the trade area that it would service so. Councilwoman Ryan: And I can’t speak to that because I wasn’t on council then but you know speaking specifically to this, that’s a concern of mine and I, I still don’t understand why we don’t but I’ll let that lie. Another question that I have, well kind of in relation to that in terms of you know trip generation and you have spoken about peak hours and you know general traffic has met our standards and if we could just clarify what those standards are. Kate Aanenson: I’ll let Mr. Oehme address that. Paul Oehme: Well you know we looked at the generation for the traffic based upon tables and based upon what we think is going to be generated by this specific development. You know again this is private streets so a lot, it’s a little bit different than looking at public impacts. This is more of a private development. Internal congestion so we’ve basically referred back to the EAW and referred back to what has already been approved for this site previously so our basis was based on, our recommendation on our traffic estimations were based on what has already been approved so that’s why we looked at general traffic, overall scope of this development instead of looking at individual intersections and individual street segments, those type of things. It’s not a typical public street, if that helps you. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt. Todd Gerhardt: If council feels as though they need a traffic study they could make that a condition of approval that a successful traffic study be submitted showing no implications to any of the streets in that area. Mayor Laufenburger: Before you, do you have other questions Councilwoman Ryan? Councilwoman Ryan: I do but. Mayor Laufenburger: Let me just interrupt. Kate is there parking overflow between all of the members of the Village on the Pond HOA? Is there parking overflow? Does Foss go into St. Hubert’s? Does Summerwood go into St. Hubert’s, etc.? Kate Aanenson: Yes. That’s how it was intended to set up. Mayor Laufenburger: Is that acceptable to all members of the HOA? Kate Aanenson: Yes. 61 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So if Houlihan’s has extra people, they kind of tip over into AmericInn? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And if Bookoo Bikes has extra they tip over into AmericInn? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Does anybody go into Summerwood? Kate Aanenson: Probably do. Mayor Laufenburger: Probably do. Kate Aanenson: There is some retail in Summerwood too on the lower level. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s right on the lower level. Kate Aanenson: I’m sure if there’s a big event at St. Hubert’s people park over there, sure. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And as far as you know it’s acceptable by all of the members of the HOA? Starbuck’s people can go park in front of Culver’s if there’s space available, etc. Kate Aanenson: Right and the HOA regulates how that works right so we require that they provide a certain amount and again in this case they’ve over parked that so and again the streets were intended to be on street parking. That was part of the traffic calming that we looked at for that project. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan you had some other questions. Councilwoman Ryan: I do have a question actually for Mr. Knutson. In reading one of the statutes while we determine whether or not to approve this liquor license, the statute that was in our packet that says municipal authorities have broad discretion to determine the manner in which liquor licenses are issued, regulated and revoked. Can you speak to what that broad discretion is please? Roger Knutson: In determining the facts you have a good amount of discretion to determine what the facts are. But it’s the facts as they relate to the statutes. So if you’re going to turn someone down you have to point to the provision in your ordinance or the statute that they’re not meeting. Once you do, you have to point to that provision and say we don’t think they are, they comply with this requirement or that requirement or whatever requirement you’re looking at. You have discretion, more discretion than in some other areas of determining what the facts are. You can’t be arbitrary and capricious obviously. You have to have substantial basis. 62 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Ryan: Could you clarify then because I read somewhere in the thousand pages of this packet something about that you know in terms of the discretion had to do with some of the social and economic impacts to your city. Is that correct? Roger Knutson: No. I think you can write your ordinances with those things in mind. You could on location, number, size all sorts of things you can possibly deal with to deal with those things so in writing your ordinance you certainly can take all those things into account. Councilwoman Ryan: So the social and economic impacts have to be in your ordinance and then that’s what has to be supported by or this broad discretion of the statute? Roger Knutson: Yeah. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Thank you. And then Mr. Gerhardt has there, this is a two part question. Has there ever been a discussion on having, putting forth an ordinance for proximities to churches or schools before in the city? Has it ever been discussed? Todd Gerhardt: I believe it’s been discussed on on-sale. I don’t believe it’s been discussed on off sale. Councilwoman Ryan: And is there anything for on sale liquor? Todd Gerhardt: No. Councilwoman Ryan: And has there ever been. Mayor Laufenburger: Let me just hop in for a second. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, sure. Mayor Laufenburger: Are there state statutes that apply to any cities about distances of liquor establishments from public properties? Roger Knutson: From public properties like city halls? Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah city halls or churches or schools or anything like that. Roger Knutson: Not that I’m aware of but there are, for townships there are. Mayor Laufenburger: So there is a statute for townships? Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Does not apply to Chanhassen correct? Roger Knutson: No. 63 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Ryan: So then it goes to the city to put forward an ordinance in order to make that happen. Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Councilwoman Ryan: And then if I could ask a question to Mr. Cooper please. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Cooper would you come to the mic please. Councilwoman Ryan: Hi there, thanks. Edward Cooper: Sure. Councilwoman Ryan: Just one question in terms of the, that specific location. Obviously it’s a big concern of mine and you cited the same document that I’m reading from when you talked about 65 percent of sales you know customers come are more than 5 miles to get to Total Wine but you also stated in this document that caught my attention. I shouldn’t say you, I should say the document, said because large format regional draw stores such as Total Wine have economic and social impact far different from a neighborhood store, a policy appropriate for neighborhood stores may not be appropriate for such large format regional draw stores. One is to adopt flexible guidelines. Another is to craft a different set of guidelines for the area immediately around the location and a third would be to create a new guideline category for large format regional draw stores and in this situation it seems as though we have to make some of those changes. Do you have a question? Edward Cooper: No. Councilwoman Ryan: Oh, you know if you have, if you have to change the rules in order to make the changes, whether it be the variances and we have some of the traffic issues why, what is the expectation that we change to fit your needs versus maybe finding a better location? Edward Cooper: I’m sorry, I’m not familiar with the document with which you’re reading from. Councilwoman Ryan: It’s the one, it’s in page 403 on this. I think it was from your Vice President. It was from Total Wine and Spirits. It was Dear Mayor and Honorable City Council members. Edward Cooper: Of what city? Councilwoman Ryan: You wrote the letter actually. I think this was. Edward Cooper: To what city? 64 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Ryan: Minnetonka. Edward Cooper: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan: When you went before their City Council. Edward Cooper: We’ve not been before their City Council yet but if I may I’d like to, Mark Jacobson is with Lindquist and Vennum. They’re our licensing attorneys. He may be able to answer the question better than me. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you. Mark Jacobson: Thank you. That letter was written to the City of Minnetonka because they were doing a study session. Not to look at the Total Wine license but to look generally at their liquor licensing practices and the guideline that they had adopted in 2010 to decide whether they wanted to change, to make changes to that guideline and so Total Wine offered some comments as to things that they might consider as they considered whether to make changes to their guidelines. We were not asking for changes in connection with the Total Wine license at all. Councilwoman Ryan: So it’s not your expectation that we should make changes to our current variances or I mean our current ordinances to accommodate the needs of your store? Mark Jacobson: No I think that your staff and your planning, your staff recommended and your Planning Commission recommended to you that you adopt a change to the ordinance on signage but there’s no other change at all that we’ve sought or that would be required to approve this license as I understand it. Councilwoman Ryan: So did you want the increase size of signage or did the staff want the increase size of signage? And have it on 4 sides of the building. Mark Jacobson: We asked for an increase, variance to increase the size of the signage and the staff decided that in order, as I understand it, in order to make it fair for all businesses in Villages on the Ponds that it, rather than giving it another variance to another business that the ordinance should just be changed so that the same rules apply to everybody. That’s what they’ve recommended to you. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay thank you. Mr. Cooper if I could have you for one. Thank you for one, or maybe this would be directed at you sir. It’s kind of the elephant in the room and it’s been talked around a little bit but could you just address in some of the documents that we received about the million dollars in fines that your business has incurred over. Edward Cooper: If I may Councilwoman Ryan I’d like to ask Tom Heffelfinger from the, from Best and Flanagan to come forward and address those. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you. 65 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Tom Heffelfinger: Mr. Mayor, members of the council. My name is Tom Heffelfinger. I’m with the firm of Best and Flanagan in downtown Minneapolis. I was hired by Total Wine and More in December of 2013 to conduct a background investigation on their company RSSI and on the two owners David and Robert Trone. The purpose was to provide clarity as to their backgrounds. I hired, I’m a former federal prosecutor and I hired a group of former FBI agents and all of us make a living doing background investigations and I did that investigation on those two individuals and one entity as I had been advised that that report, which is voluminous. The RSSI report alone is over 100 pages, have been provided to you as a council and as provided to staff and to the City Attorney. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Heffelfinger let me confirm that, that is part of the packet. It’s part of the public record. Tom Heffelfinger: Thank you. The issue of fines versus reimbursement you will note in the packet that was given to you that there are, what we focused on primarily other than where David and Robert live and their charitable contributions and their children and all the other background things you might otherwise do. What we did that was very unusual for a background, we didn’t rely on the company to tell us what their violation history was. To the contrary. We went to the 15 states in which they were doing business during the 3 months we spent on our background investigation. There were 101 stores operating in 15 states between the period of December of ’13 and March of ’14 when we completed our report and what we learned was that in those 101 stores in the time period between 1991 and March of 2014 there had been 29 violations by the company in any one of those 15 states. In any one of those 101 stores. What we also learned that is of the 101 stores, 75 of those stores during that 20 plus year period had had zero violations. Some of the violations did exist and the, I believe Councilwoman Ryan what you’re referring to primarily is what has been previously reported related to experience of the company in New Jersey and in Pennsylvania. I will tell this council that all of those allegations were brought before the administrative law judge that was empaneled by the City of Bloomington and brought before the other 4 city councils that have approved these liquor licenses. And all of this issue has been addressed to the satisfaction of both the ALJ and the 5 city councils. But what happened is in Pennsylvania in particular David Trone and the idea for Total Wine and More was developed by Mr. Trone pursuant to our investigation while he was a student at Wharton Business School at the University of Pennsylvania and he came up with the idea that liquor could be distributed more efficiently and in Pennsylvania it’s limited to beer but beer could be distributed more efficiently if there was centralized administration. He tried that and the opposition came out strongly against him. Very strongly to the point that the opposition in Pennsylvania got the support of the state police which is the regulator for liquor laws in the state of Pennsylvania and the then attorney general, Mr. Priatt, who by the way was subsequently indicted for fraud but that’s irrelevant, they came back at Mr. Trone and he was charged with a crime in 1989. That charge was dismissed by the prosecutor in 1990. The prosecutor determined in dismissing his own case that what the Trones were doing was supported by the law. When he dismissed the case the state police actually testified against their own prosecutor and the state police said that the reason that they were opposing the Trones was because 91 beer distributorships had gone out of business in the state of Pennsylvania during the period of time that Trone was starting his new business model. So it was about competition. In 1992 the state brought an indictment against David, Robert and a couple of other people. That indictment was 66 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 dismissed in large part, 20 out of the 23 counts by a judge who ruled that the bringing of that indictment was improper. It was prosecutorial over reaching. And the Trones entered into an agreement to resolve the other 3 counts, and this is where the fine issue comes up and the reimbursement issue. Part of that agreement was that David Trone would reimburse the State of Pennsylvania $40,000 for investigative costs. It was not a fine. It’s specific in the documents. The documents, this is all laid out in the report we’ve given to you and the backup documents are also on the disk that was provided to you from Waypoint and me. The investigators and me. New Jersey, I realize I have limited time. In New Jersey in 19, excuse me. In 2002 the State of New Jersey began an investigation of the 4 Total Wine stores that are owned by the 2 Trone brothers in New Jersey. The theory behind the investigation was that there was a, that the ownership structure for the 4 stores didn’t fit the New Jersey statute. That investigation dragged on for 2 years. That investigation eventually in 2005 the Trone’s lawyers in New Jersey approached the State Alcohol Beverage Control Department. This is all in the documents and proposed a solution. And the Trones agreed to that and they entered into a settlement of the New Jersey case wherein the Trones agreed that for each of the 4 stores they would make, and there were other conditions about business operations but as it relates to money the Trones agreed and Total Wine agreed that they would make a $250,000 payment to the State. Actually to the Alcohol Beverage Control Department to reimburse their ABC for the cost of their New Jersey, their 2 year New Jersey investigation. Each of the 4 stores, part of the agreement was that each of the 4 stores had 5 years to pay the $250,000 reimbursement payment and so in New Jersey the Trones, and the Trones met that obligation and the entire case was dismissed I think in 2007. The Trones made a payment of $50,000 per year per store. I actually believe they prepaid it and that was categorized and it’s laid out verbatim in the agreement as a reimbursement to the State for the cost of investigation. As to other violations I call your attention to our report and our report frequently, some of those where there is a violation they are referred to as fines. You know $500 for this or $750 for that but the point of our report was to provide you with a summary of each one of the 29 violations in that 23 year period. Any other questions of me? Mayor Laufenburger: Anything, a further question on that Councilwoman Ryan? Councilwoman Ryan: Not. Edward Cooper: Ms. Ryan if I may just add one additional fine point to Mr. Heffelfinger and that is that the State of New Jersey continued, not only relicensed but has continued to license those 4 stores since 2005 and just approved all 4 of those licenses earlier this year. Councilwoman Ryan: And you have a wonderful recall for obviously you know your document which is great. My, the flag goes up to my, the red flag I guess goes up to me and this is not a question. More of a comment here is whether they’re fines or paying back for investigation fees or what not, you know I look at the businesses and I’m not just speaking specifically to liquor stores here in Chanhassen but I would be curious to know any business, big business or small business in the city of Chanhassen that has dealt with that many legal issues based on illicit business practices, whether they’re found guilty or not guilty and that just causes concern for me. Tom Heffelfinger: May I reply Mr. Mayor? 67 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Please. Tom Heffelfinger: Councilwoman Ryan, part of my investigation was not to do an analysis of how those 29 violations compare with others. But I’m going to ask Mr. Jacobson because I know, he’s told me this that they have done an analysis on how many violations that is per store year for example and how that analysis compares, numbers of violations, especially violations for the very, very serious violation of serving under 21 which is what we found in our review of the company’s practices. The company has historically put huge effort into avoiding under 21 violations and where they happen, making changes to prevent them from happening again but I’m going to ask Mr. Jacobson to try to address how those numbers, the 29 violations compare to their own operations nationwide over a 24 year period plus other communities in Minnesota. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Jacobson. Mark Jacobson: Well what I can tell you is the figures for sales to minors which is where we’ve really made comparisons and I’m happy to do that. Since 2010 for instance Total Wine stores across the country, and there are 117 of them now, have had one violation for a sale to a minor. Haskell’s for instance has 13 liquor stores in Minnesota. They’ve had 8 violations for sales to minors. Mayor Laufenburger: Is that a matter of public record Mr. Jacobson? Mark Jacobson: I believe it is. It’s a little difficult to dig out quite frankly but I’d be happy to provide it to you if you’d like. Mayor Laufenburger: I just. Mark Jacobson: Our record is in the Waypoint report so you have all of that. There are charts in there that make that very clear. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan did you have another comment about that? Councilwoman Ryan: I didn’t, no. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. Mr. Heffelfinger could you just remain there a moment. Did you have other questions Councilwoman Ryan? Councilwoman Ryan: Not at this time, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Heffelfinger this is, you made reference to administrative law judge. Tom Heffelfinger: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Could you explain why is an administrative law judge looking at these alleged violations or violations, why is that important for us to consider at this time? Could you explain the little background on that? 68 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Tom Heffelfinger: First of all if you’re asking why the liquor laws of Minnesota allow the use of an ALJ I’m going to defer to Lindquist and Vennum. Mayor Laufenburger: No, no, no. Not the laws but what I’m wondering why should this council consider what an administrative law judge did in the city of Bloomington? Tom Heffelfinger: Thank you Mayor. Members of the council. Once the City of Bloomington decided to utilize an ALJ, that’s what Administrative Law Judge means, and ALJ to do the fact finding, that meant that that judge would be given voluminous papers. Voluminous papers and I include among voluminous things that he received, Mr. White I believe is his name, he received them from, he received my report, the Waypoint report is what it’s referred to. He received other submissions from the applicant and he received voluminous submissions from the opposition including the MLBA which has consistently opposed this company. He then held a, I believe it was an 8 hour hearing. Public hearing. Much like this only there was only him sitting there in a, in the City Council chambers in Bloomington. There were many, many people who testified in opposition as well as those who testified, I testified. I explained, answered his questions regarding our report. And he, why I think it is of importance to you is, and I know that you got his Findings of Fact and Conclusion of Law in the packet. Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Tom Heffelfinger: Before he drafted that he received all this data. He reviewed all the data. He personally read everything and he made certain findings of fact and applied those findings as Mr. Knutson said to the ordinance in Bloomington and I believe the ordinance is, if not identical it’s so close to yours it’s beyond an issue but I’ll defer to your own counsel on that. He made a Findings of Fact and recommended at the end of that, and one of the other things I loved about his Findings of Fact, he liked my investigation. And he made a finding that it said for a company, for individuals and a company who are being questioned on the regulatory history it doesn’t make sense that they would turn around and go hire a bunch of ex-FBI agents and federal prosecutors to do an investigation and then hand it over and make it public. He made a Findings of Fact that based on the facts that were provided to him. Mayor Laufenburger: By both sides. Tom Heffelfinger: By both sides over an 8 hour hearing and several weeks of analysis by him, both before and after, that the license in Bloomington should be granted because the applicant met the standards of the ordinance. Much like your staff has done here today. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. There’s one question that I would like you answer for me is, why was the administrative law judge engaged? Do you know why? Tom Heffelfinger: That was a decision you’d have to I guess ask a member of the City Council but in Bloomington they have had a history of having done this before. This was not the first time they used an ALJ. 69 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Before as in for other liquor license rules? Tom Heffelfinger: For other liquor license applications. They had done this at least one other time where they reached out to the State and asked the State to appoint an administrative law judge, which is what happened here. Mr. White was appointed by the Office of Administrative Hearings which does administrative hearings. So they made the decision, and I believe it had in part because I provided all of my reports and met with the City Attorney in Bloomington several times, that the volume of documents and the breadth of the issues that was being presented by both sides made using an ALJ particularly appropriate rather than turning a City Council hearing into an 8 hour fact finding hearing. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Mr. Heffelfinger. Tom Heffelfinger: Thank you very much. Mayor Laufenburger: For your answer to that question. Any other questions? Mr. Gerhardt did you have a question or comment? Todd Gerhardt: Just want to make a comment. Inside the 3,000 pages of documents there is a footnote in there where the City of Chanhassen denied a liquor application in 1984. It wasn’t a liquor application that was denied. It was a land use case between the City of Chanhassen and Chan Estates where the McDonald’s restaurant that sits there today so it had nothing to do with liquor so if that was referenced or anybody had that in their mind, that’s what that case was about. I don’t know why they added liquor to that but it was not a liquor denial. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Cooper I’m going to ask you to return if you wouldn’t mind. Could you talk a little bit more about why Chanhassen? Edward Cooper: Certainly. As I said earlier we see ourselves as a fine wine store primarily. In fact most of our margins come in fine wine. We also sell distilled spirits and national and craft beer but for our entry into, into the southwest metro area we looked at demographics and geography and the like and Chanhassen looked like a perfect place to be able to, to do business. For us, for us quite frankly our stores, we think that we’re good for the economy in a number of ways. Our stores support 50 team members in those stores of which three-quarters of them are, as I mentioned before, full time. That’s our goal is 75 percent of those 50 to be full time and for us that means not only good wages but benefits as well. And quite frankly for Chanhassen it means additional customers for surrounding businesses. Mayor Laufenburger: And how long have you been doing business actually had stores open in Minnesota? When was the first one opened? Edward Cooper: The first one was I believe is March of 2014. Mayor Laufenburger: So 16 months. Edward Cooper: 16 months yes, in Roseville. 70 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And during that 16 months have you ever been accused of a violation of selling to a minor? A minor or to a visibly intoxicated or inebriated individual. Edward Cooper: No we have not. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Do you have anything in place in the stores to insure that that doesn’t happen? Edward Cooper: We do. We do. We take the extraordinary, I think extraordinary step. In fact I think it’s best in the industry practice of being able to incentivize our team members to be able to do so. To card for individuals. Mayor Laufenburger: So you reward your sales people if they find somebody trying to. Edward Cooper: That’s correct. We reward our front end team members. Our cashiers with a bonus program. Not just here in Minnesota but all around the country. Last year we paid out in excess of a million dollars in bonuses for folks who, for our team members who, first of all they’re trained to be able to do that and to identify and to look for underage but as they go through and they will ask for identification they will work with their managers to be able to, and ultimately with the police to be able to insure that nobody under the age of 21 is going to get, has access to beer, wine or spirits. Mayor Laufenburger: Can anybody under the age of 21 enter your stores? Edward Cooper: No, not unless they’re accompanied by a parent or guardian so we do sell. We’re a beverage company. We sell beer, wine and spirits. We also sell sodas and bottled water and the like but we will not allow anybody under 21 into the store unless they’re with a parent or guardian. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Cooper I heard some people say earlier about, they talked about a 3 tier distribution system in Minnesota. Can you speak to that and how you interpret that 3 tier system? Edward Cooper: Sure. We fully embrace the 3 tier system not only in Minnesota but all around the country. The 3 tier system has worked, you know came into being after the end of prohibition in the early 1930’s and really what that was, the council needn’t have a primer on that but really what that was, was to make sure that there was fairness between retailers and producers and inserted the wholesale tier. And so for us we embrace that 100 percent. Mayor Laufenburger: So do you, do you buy products from the distributors in Minnesota? Edward Cooper: Exclusively yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Let’s see. One of the requirements for us issuing a license and renewing a license I might point out is, and I’m quoting from the, from a statute here. Just a 71 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 moment. Here we go. No license or renewal license shall be issued to sell alcoholic beverage under this article unless an application or license holder has an approved program for instructing all employees at the business premises for which the license was issued, and then it goes on and it says they’ve got to train them. Do you have a training program? Edward Cooper: We do. We’ve got. Mayor Laufenburger: Describe it to me please. Edward Cooper: Well it’s multi-faceted. The first and foremost is we’re all about, we’re all about the customers and the customers love us. Our competitors not so much and so for us quite frankly we take, you know our record. Our record I think is best in terms of training our team members. At 100 to 150 hours of training on various aspects of wine, beer and spirits before they get into the, before they even get into store. Beyond that all of our team members are certified tips trained and we also adhere to any, in this state and in other states to any additional training that’s required. We go above and beyond on the training in terms of making sure there’s no sales to minor. No sales to inebriated individuals. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Let’s talk about wine tastings. Are they legal? Edward Cooper: They are. Mayor Laufenburger: I’ve heard some people claim that your wine tastings are not legal. Edward Cooper: That our’s are not legal? I’m not familiar with that. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, for some reason there’s something that you do at your wine tastings that are different than what might occur at other liquor stores. You’ve never heard that claim? Edward Cooper: No. No sir. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, I’ll take that as just for what it’s worth. Edward Cooper: They’re legal, they are legal here in the state of Minnesota. We engage in them as is prescribed by law. Mayor Laufenburger: Do you card for wine tastings too? Edward Cooper: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: So you don’t even, you can’t even let your employees check the age of people who are even going to just take a little sip? Edward Cooper: That’s correct. I mean and you’ve accurately portrayed it. These are not, this is not consumption. This is tasting and so by state law there is requirements in terms of the volume of wine, beer and spirits that can be tasted. It’s not consumption. 72 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So you’ve been in business, operating in Minnesota for 14 months. Edward Cooper: Yes sir. Mayor Laufenburger: I’ve read through lots of things about people who say that you put them out of business. Edward Cooper: I’ve seem those as well, yes sir. Mayor Laufenburger: And what do you, how do you speak to that? Edward Cooper: I don’t believe there’s any evidence to that. The in fact, in fact you know you’ve heard this evening a bunch of spurious accusations about the fact that we come in and that, and that we predatory pricing. You know you’re not allowed to price below cost in this state. Mayor Laufenburger: Does anybody? Edward Cooper: I’m sure people do yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: But they’re not allowed to. Edward Cooper: They’re not allowed to but I imagine they do. We’ve seen examples of that elsewhere yes. But we do not. I guess an understanding of retail in general, and just beverage alcohol but an understanding of retail is that you, is that you compete on price. You compete on service. You compete on selection and at least from the price point the accusations of course that people will, that we will come in. We will under-cut everybody else and then raise the retail prices I think is a little bit ridiculous. I don’t think that’s, I don’t think there’s evidence for that out in the wild and if there is, they’re not particularly good retailers. We think we’re pretty good retailers. If you were going to raise your prices, your retails after you drive out all the so called competition I think you’re setting yourself up for somebody else who’s clever and smart and like to be able to come behind you. For us we strive to be the price leader in every market we’re in. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Mr. Cooper. Edward Cooper: Thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: I think that’s all the questions that I had. I had just a couple questions for Mr. Gerhardt or Kate. We’re talking about an off sale liquor license. That is a license to sell a product that is consumed off premises where alcoholic consumption is not monitored, right? Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: But we sell on sale liquor licenses correct? 73 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Todd Gerhardt: That is correct. Mayor Laufenburger: How many on sale liquor licenses do we have in Chanhassen, do you know right off the top of your head? Todd Gerhardt: Ten on sale full liquor and then I do not know the count on beer and wine. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is there any restriction in state code as to how many on sale liquor licenses we are allowed? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. There’s on sale 18 is the maximum number and then until you hit a population of 4,500 and then you get. Mayor Laufenburger: 45,000 you mean? Todd Gerhardt: 45,000 sorry, yep. Zero amongst friends but and then you get 1 additional for every 2,500 above the 45,000. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay and we are clearly below that 18, is that correct? Todd Gerhardt: That is correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Are there any on sale liquor licenses in the vicinity of Village on the Ponds? Todd Gerhardt: Hurricane Grill and the Legion. Mayor Laufenburger: Well that’s not in the PUD but its close. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. And then Houlihan’s would be the only ones. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Do we ever approve temporary on sale liquor license permits? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, and to whom do we give those? Anybody who applies? Todd Gerhardt: Pretty much. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is there any restriction? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Could you give me an example? Well first of all let’s talk about who applies for temporary on sale liquor licenses. 74 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Roger Knutson: I’m going to have to refer to Roger on the details of that one. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Knutson. Roger Knutson: Lots of organizations. Basically 501C(3) organizations. Churches quite commonly get them for example. Clubs. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. We know that we sell one to, or we allow Rotary to do one. Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: We heard they do a beer and wine garden. They also sell alcohol at Feb Fest, etc. How about St. Hubert’s, have they ever applied for one? Todd Gerhardt: They have. Mayor Laufenburger: And have we approved it? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: In conjunction with what? Their festivals. Todd Gerhardt: The last I think, I know last year they did not have it at the festival. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: But special events occasionally. Not as much now as they have in the past. Mayor Laufenburger: How much do we charge for those temporary liquor licenses? Todd Gerhardt: It’s a minimal amount. I want to say. Mayor Laufenburger: Minimal, under $1,000? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Under $100? Todd Gerhardt: Around there. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. I think it’s a dollar. Todd Gerhardt: Is it a dollar? 75 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, that’s what Karen tells me. Greg you probably know that, okay. And I’m wondering do we have any history of trouble or abuse during these temporary licenses as far as you know Mr. Gerhardt? Todd Gerhardt: No, not that I’m aware of. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is Eric still here? Have you heard anything about any recent abuse about the abuse of liquor for any of these temporary licenses? Lt. Eric Kittelson: No… Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, good. What about tap rooms, brew pubs, craft beer outlets, how would they be controlled Mr. Gerhardt? Todd Gerhardt: Currently the City does not have tap rooms in the community. Our ordinance doesn’t allow them. The reason we do not allow them is that nobody has made application for it. Council would control where it’s located from a zoning standpoint. Size. And you know where the tap room premise, where alcohol can be consumed. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay but that would be considered on sale as opposed to off sale. Or could it be a combination of both? Maybe it could be a combination of both if they wanted to sell. Todd Gerhardt: Well more distribution. Do you want to answer that one? Roger Knutson: You don’t have an ordinance in place so this is in theory but in other places under state law for example you can take a growler home. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh, I’ve heard about that. Roger Knutson: Even on Sunday. Mayor Laufenburger: Even on Sunday, yeah I’ve heard. But that would be from an on sale so it’s purchased on premise okay. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. Are there any other questions from council? Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just have one. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom. 76 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Tjornhom: Real quick. Kate we had a discussion about proximity of liquor stores and schools. What is the proximity of the Goddard School to Cheers? I mean I don’t want, I mean is it within reason or you know when we talk about proximity. Kate Aanenson: When that question came up I was quickly going through my head. The only one I can think of that might be close to like Primrose there’s a, I believe a liquor store down in that Kraus-Anderson project. That might be within 500 feet. I’m not sure if Cheers would be, it could be. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay, and how about the Byerly’s liquor store and the Chanhassen Elementary? Kate Aanenson: That could be also, yep. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: Good question. Thank you. If there’s no further questions I would ask the council to either make comment or motion. Councilman Campion: I’ll make a comment. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Campion. Councilman Campion: I’d like to thank all the residents and visitors that came tonight to express your concerns and opinions about this. I’ve tried to be a good listener and I see that many of those that came tonight have expressed their opposition to Total Wine. However in the past several weeks leading up to tonight I have done my best while out and about in Chanhassen to speak with my fellow neighbors. Other residents at the grocery store or wherever I might be to get their opinion on this and when I’m out in public and asking people one on one, I’ve probably spoken to over 100 people and when I’m speaking to those people at random I would have to say that the numbers are about 7 out of 10 are for. And this is based on my unscientific polling of Chanhassen at random. I understand that you all have valid concerns that you’re raising here tonight but that’s what I’ve found when I just polled people at random. Number two, when I’m looking at this you know and I hear a lot of concern about you know the eighth liquor store in Chanhassen and I recognize this is, you know not just any liquor store but it seems that you know 8 liquor stores to people is, at least the people here tonight seem to think that that’s too many. But why was 6 okay? Why was 7 okay? It sounds like Vintage was the most recent liquor store to open in Chanhassen. They were number 7 and it sounds like there are quite a few people that are in support of Vintage and that it’s a very nice store. And so 7 was okay. Why draw the line at 8? I think it’s okay to look at ordinance, you know review our ordinance and determine whether we want to set some limits for the future but I don’t think it should be an arbitrary number where we say it’s 8 or maybe it’s based on a per capita ratio or something along those lines but to do it after a company comes in and wants to open a business within the city, to then change the ordinance for them seems like a stretch. Another concern of mine that I’ve been thinking about is, if not here, what if Total Wine went to one of our neighboring cities, would that not have a similar impact or pose a similar competition to our liquor stores? I believe it 77 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 would and I guess my last point or comment that I make is that I’ve fundamentally do believe that you know the market should determine what businesses are here in Chanhassen and we are all part of that market and if you know Total Wine opens and they, you don’t approve of them don’t shop there. We’ll see what the market bears. If the market does bear, does support them they’ll do well. They’ll be a positive addition to our community. If they don’t do well and they choose to pull out that you know a majority of Chanhassen, that my unscientific polling was wrong and a majority of Chanhassen does not support them and they decide to pull out, it looks like they’re building a very nice building. We’ll get into more details of that later tonight; that could be repurposed for some other reason in the future. It could be a nice pet food store. It could be a grocery store. It could be a sporting goods store and so for those reasons I will be supporting the liquor license tonight. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Campion. Any other comment or motion from council member? Councilwoman Ryan: I’ll make a comment or two. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. Councilwoman Ryan: I would also like to thank the number of people that have participated in tonight’s event and it has certainly been an event. Very thoughtful conversations and questions and what this public process is really all about is getting community input and we have received a number of emails and phone calls and appreciate each and every one of them. A couple concerns that I have and me lay out some of my thoughts. As was stated earlier traffic is a serious issue in this location. Not only has there not been a comprehensive study done in 20 years, we as residents know that it is an issue in that area. I too frequent the church, restaurants and get my bike serviced at Bokoo Bikes so I am in that area all the time. I do recall there’s been a couple comments about the residents of Summerwood and at one of the great Buy Chanhassen luncheons that Vernelle is in charge of, a couple residents spoke up. It was I believe at the State of the City where the mayor spoke. The residents were concerned about pedestrian movement and safe crossings. Specifically they were talking about crossing Highway 5 but in order to get to Highway 5 you would have to cross this area and this is an area that they, they both walk and ride their bikes and again it’s a concern so the point here is that the seniors who walk and ride are now going to be confronted with additional traffic which causes major safety concerns for me. In referencing a lot of times we reference the Findings of Fact and letter (f) in the Findings of Fact. Now my papers are all over. Letter (d) it says, or letter (f), I’m sorry. It says traffic generation by the proposed use is within capabilities of streets serving the property. And the finding was that traffic generation by the proposed use is within capabilities of streets serving this property. I just, I don’t believe that there has been a study to warrant that finding. We’re going to get to the variance in the next piece so I’ll skip that. I’d also like to touch on the fact that just because there hasn’t been a restriction in the last 10 years and it hasn’t been revisited about the proximity of liquor stores to churches and schools this is, this is serious to me and I do believe that it’s something that the council needs to address sooner than later. I am not comfortable having a liquor store next to a church I go to and a school I have family and friends that attend. Like everybody here you know Chanhassen is a great place for all of us to live but image is important and that is not something that’s been discussed here and it does matter. It’s 78 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 what attracted all of us to live here and why businesses want to operate here and I want to make sure that it is the right business in the right location and, but to me at the end of the day it really does come down to just that. It’s about the location. It isn’t about not having Total Wine in Chanhassen. It is about they are asking for a regional business to be located on Main Street and Main Street does not say regional to me. It says local and I think we need to protect our local assets in that area and for that reason I will be not voting in support of Total Wine. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, any other council member wish to make a comment at this time? Councilwoman Tjornhom: I will Mr. Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom, thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you. I actually really enjoy these meetings. I know that someone commented tonight that these are kind of the meetings that we all dread but I actually think they’re really healthy for everybody because tonight we’re all thinking about our town and we’re thinking about actually what government’s role is and what we should as a city council be doing and not doing. We historically are living in times folks where government is inching into our lives moment by moment. They are controlling our education of our children. They’re controlling our health care. They’re controlling every step that we take and it, you know we blame Washington sometimes. We can blame St. Paul sometimes but a lot of good government starts locally and it really matters if we as council members are for big government or we’re against big government and I’ve always been a council member that is against big government. I fully believe that we as a council or a city council should not be in the business of deciding what business should be here and succeed. That is actually your job as people that come to town and you shop and you buy your liquor or you buy your hammer. We have Home Depot just down the road. We have Menards just down the road but I love our little Ace Hardware store so I shop there and if it costs me a little bit more, that’s just what it is. I love walking in there. They know my name. I can tell them what I want and it’s wonderful. Now you probably have your favorite liquor store and hopefully you have that same relationship with whoever owns that liquor store and so by all means stay and support that store but that’s your choice and I think it’s not my role to take away that choice from you and to punish a store that is successful from coming into town. That’s not my job tonight. My job tonight is to determine whether or not I can give Total Wine a liquor license if they meet everything for their site plan and that’s what we’ll determine next but I think there are two sides of the opposition. There is business that I understand. It’s going to be tough. It’s going to be competition but that’s part of being a business. And then there is the people that are afraid of traffic or they have concerns. They’re not afraid. They’re concerned with traffic. They’re concerned with the change and feel of our town. They want something different in that area. They want a restaurant. We all want restaurants in this town. I can’t say there’s anybody in this room that does not want another wonderful restaurant to come in but folks that property’s been available for years and we have done everything we can to encourage it. It’s not our job to find it and to develop it. Businesses have to want to come and be there and we’ve tried as a council to support any effort to have that happen and so I’m going to support Total Wine coming into town and vote for this license for those reasons. 79 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Mr. McDonald, do you have any comments before I do? Councilman McDonald: Well I’ve got some comments, yes Mr. Mayor. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I do also want to thank everybody for coming out. We’ve gotten a lot of good feedback. We got a lot of emails, letters, all kinds of correspondence. I too have talked to people to try to find out what the feeling is within the community. I guess what I look at is, this kind of boils down to 5 issues. The first one I heard is that it will destroy the character of Chanhassen. That it’s unfair to local business and Total Wine’s practices against those businesses. There is the traffic impact to the community. There would be a better business choice for that site such as a high end restaurant or local shops coming in that we could all patronize. And then also that there’s just too many liquor stores in Chanhassen. In addressing these one of the things that I’ve looked at is that I’ve been here long enough that I remember when Chanhassen was nothing but a crossroads and there was the Pony Keg restaurant right next to the church and there were liquor stores all over the place. It wasn’t hard to get a drink in this town at all. All that changed. We redeveloped the whole downtown area. It is what it is today. We’re not done. We’re still looking at development but a couple years ago we became involved in what was called the McCombs study and what that was, we commissioned the McCombs Group to kind of look at what’s the future for Chanhassen because we did start asking these questions. Where do we want to be in 5, 10, 15, even 20 years from now and what we begin to look at was again what’s the growth of the city? What has sustained the city to this point? Who pays the taxes? Who pays for the services? This community is the way it is because of that growth because we could afford the best in services. At some point development runs out. We only have so much land within this city so many councils ago we began to look at what do we need to do because we do need to set the city up so that the total burden of services does not fall upon the residents and that is where the McCombs study came in. And I guess prior to that time we were very anti big box store. What the McCombs study told us, and what it kind of taught from going through that is that because Chanhassen is what it is and where it is, we are in a unique position to become a regional draw for consumers. For shoppers. To bring people into the community. Well what that meant was we needed the businesses to be here so that people would come to Chanhassen. It needs to be a destination and I’ve known Vernelle for a number of years. We’ve gone back and forth about what’s going to happen with downtown versus I’m sure you’re all aware of the other piece of property at 212 and Lyman which is targeted to become a big regional center and I say that only from the standpoint of, I’ve been involved with that for over 10 years and it’s gone from being a regional mall to a lifestyle center which was a scale back to a okay, we’re going to have some you know big boxes in there to what we had this past year which was well we’re going to put all kinds of stuff and it’s going to bring all kinds of people in here. The problem with that is that as the downtown association has told me many times, they don’t want to become like Chaska. Like any small town that decides to more or less relocate to the outer fringes. 212. At that point nobody comes to downtown and it becomes a ghost town. It’s happened over and over and over again. The gentleman from Chaska was in here. I know quite a few members on the Chaska City Council and they wrestle with that problem because of the way they’ve done development. They are now trying to redo things to 80 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 try to get people back into downtown Chaska. That’s what the curling rink is all about. Is that that will create a draw. Draws are very important if you want to have a healthy downtown. So the McCombs study says we need to be a regional draw. We need to get people into our area. Build shops. Rezone. Do things and the council over the years has tried to do that. We’ve tried to encourage growth to come to Chanhassen. We’ve looked at these high end restaurants. There was a place out by where the Holiday Inn Express is at. We had an opportunity, this is about 6-7 years ago to get a really high end restaurant there. Problem was he couldn’t make the business plan work because he couldn’t show how it was going to be supported. A high end restaurant is very high maintenance. They’re very expensive to run. The food’s expensive. The wait staff is expensive. You need to make sure that you’ve got lines waiting to get in. We don’t have that in Chanhassen. I mean that’s just the way it is so councils have always been looking for that draw. That gets me to what we’re looking at with Total Wine and that hits upon a number of other points. Traffic impact to the community and whether it’s unfair or not and whether there’s too many liquor stores. If you want your downtown to survive you need people to come to it. The Dinner Theater is great but the Dinner Theater has a captive audience. People come in. They go to the play. They get back on the buses and they leave the community. They don’t go to restaurants because the Dinner Theater captures all of that food within the Dinner Theater. So we gain nothing from all of those people that come in for the plays on the weekends. If we have a draw to the downtown area that’s going to give you the opportunity to set up these other small businesses. It’s going to give you the opportunity to set up the restaurants because as I’ve learned over the years restaurants are kind of an impulse thing. I’m here. That looks good. I’m going to go there. I can understand why Davanni’s and why Hurricane and why Houlihan’s is supporting this because that will bring a lot of people to that area and that will equate to better business for those businesses, which are local businesses. On the issue of you know it’s unfair to local business. I guess what I’m reminded of is right now there’s a big battle going on over Uber and I’m sure everybody’s heard about Uber. Its ride sharing. It basically is new technology that eliminates taxis. Taxis are controlled by cities. The medallions cost a lot of money. Uber found a business model around all of that. Mayors of New York, Paris, San Antonio, they all decided to step in and basically pick winners and losers so what they’ve done is, they’ve decided to make it very difficult for Uber to succeed. In New York City there was a big blow back from the people because they use Uber a lot and it is convenient. You call for a cab and it is there. You don’t have to get out and try to flag down a taxi. That’s the market responding to technology. That’s what people should do. That’s what the market is all about. If you like something you’ll patronize it. You’ll pay money for it. You’ll go there and you’ll buy goods and services. If you don’t, you won’t and it dies. I’m of the opinion that the local liquor stores will do just fine because the big thing is as a regional draw I think most of you are going to decide it’s not worth the time and effort to try to fight the traffic and you’ll go to the closest liquor store so I think all of them will do just fine so I’m not really that worried about it. Unfair business practices. We heard quite a bit about that. I think the thing you look at there, and it was brought up that you know the state has certain laws about what you can sell your goods and services at. We saw this a couple years ago with gasoline. A couple of dealers tried to sell below cost. They got caught. There was a big bruhaha about it and they got fined so I don’t think that Total Wine is going to be able to go in here and sell below cost just because they want to. If they do they’re going to be risking their license. They’re going to be risking a lot more than what it’s worth. That will be the fifth store I think around here. That’s a lot of money as you all have already pointed out. When you look at the number of turns and the number of sales, that’s a lot of money and if I 81 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 were running the business I wouldn’t want to do anything to jeopardize all of that and I don’t think Total Wine will. So I look at all of these things and I try to put it into perspective what everybody has said they want for the community and again one of the gentlemen said it. That the train has left the station about us being a small town community. It really has. You know we’ve already got some major stores that want to come in. At one time there was talk about the Vikings wanted to come in to Chanhassen. So we’re on the map. We are going to get a lot more people and that is good. It is really a good thing to have happen. I think that the thing I look at is, is because this is in the core of downtown area that will help us with the rest of downtown as far as developing new stores and bringing people into Chanhassen. And I think it will also help us to get that high end restaurant at some point which I’m sure Axel’s isn’t going to be too happy about and they will probably then want to come forward. But I think based upon all of that, the fact that there is no reason to deny this license. They’ve met all the requirements. They’ve proven to be a legal business. They’re in other communities and I did get a letter from a city council member. I think it was out of Burnsville and one of the things that he wanted us to know about was the fact that Total Wine immersed themselves within the community of Burnsville. They sponsored teams. They sponsored you know local events. These are local people that are going to be working at these stores. This is a local business you know. It may be owned by somebody in Pennsylvania but most of the businesses, the bigger businesses in this town are owned by somebody else out of town. That’s just the way business is so I can find no reason to not vote for this and you know for that and for those reasons I will be voting for Total Wine to receive a liquor license. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilman McDonald. We’re coming close to an end here folks so just be patient with us a little bit longer. You heard me make reference to over 3,000 pages of documents that came forward and let me assure you I might have looked at all of those pages but I didn’t read all of those pages. That’s why it was so important to me that I had a conversation with Gene Winsted who is the mayor of Bloomington and I asked him about this administrative law judge think and I said Gene why did you do this administrative law judge and he said Denny the truth is, none of us on the council felt qualified to make a legal determination as to whether or not Total Wine and Spirits could do business in Bloomington. And I said so what did you do? He said we hired this administrative law judge. We commanded him through the Office of Administrative Hearing to review all the documents. All the allegations. All the facts. Everything and I said so Gene what was the outcome and he said the administrative law judge came back and recommended approval of the license. That was the administrative law judge acting on behalf of the City of Bloomington so that was number one important to me. Number two. There’s a lot of discussion about the number of residents, or the number of liquor stores per resident. I’ve talked with the liquor store owners in Chanhassen and by their own definition they sell outside of Chanhassen. They sell into Eden Prairie. Why? Because Eden Prairie has 3 municipal liquor stores and I believe, although I’ve never tested this, their prices are a little high so the liquor stores, Haskell’s on Highway 5. The Vintage on 212, they love to sell to Eden Prairie. Probably some other ones as well and do I fault Total Wine for wanting to go into markets that are served tangentially by municipal liquor stores? I don’t fault them at all. I think that’s an opportunity that they’re taking advantage of. So if you look at the, we did the calculation thanks to Mr. Steve Fredricks, 1 liquor store per 3,250 residents of Chanhassen. Well if you add even 15 percent of Eden Prairie like the people who live on Dell Road and in that area, all of a sudden the liquor store per resident goes up to 4,500 but here’s what’s most telling 82 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 for me. Terry Schneider, the mayor of Minnetonka says that calculation of liquor store per population, it’s arbitrary and I would agree. I think it’s arbitrary. It’s not a measure of how many liquor stores. Now I do believe, I believe that on sale liquor stores, that’s something that we should consider because that’s consumption of alcohol right at that time and that’s controlled consumption on presence so I’m in favor of the ordinances that are in place that restrict the number of on sale licenses but that’s a state mandated restriction. The real question to me comes down to one of philosophy. Now I wasn’t on the council in 2005 when the question of the numeric restriction was in place and then subsequently removed. However I agree with that philosophy. Unless there is a highly compelling reason to do otherwise, I support the notion that the best indicator of how many banks, coffee shops, chiropractors, dry cleaners, dentists, fitness outlets, financial planners, gas stations, hair salons, ice cream parlors, insurance offices, pizza shops, hotels, real estate offices, and liquor stores, the best indicator of how many are needed should be, as Councilwoman Tjornhom said, you. The consumer. You vote with your feet and your pocketbooks and based on the people that approached me over the last 3 weeks, if all of you have said, if all of you follow through on what you have said to me that you love your liquor store and you’re not going to buy from anybody else, then I would say the existing liquor stores that are doing well are going to continue to do very well. And the ones that aren’t doing well, they’re probably not going to continue to do very well either. To those of you that have developed great relationships with your local stores, stay there. Reward their customer service. Reward their engagement in the community but I disagree with the notion that Total Wine will not be a valid member of this community. In the case of Total Wine in Chanhassen I don’t believe there is a highly compelling reason to waiver from the City Council decision of 2005. I believe there is nothing that would disqualify Total Wine from entering this market. Now I pass no judgment whatsoever on the entertainment lifestyle choices that that organization supports. Nor do I believe that this store will alter the character of this community. There are so many more things than liquor stores that contribute to the character of this community. So many, many more elements. And with that I will entertain a motion. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor I’ll make a motion. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mayor I’d like to make a motion that the City Council approves the request for an off sale intoxicating liquor license from Minnesota Fine Wine and Spirits, LLC, Total Wine and More at 510 Lake Drive. Approval of the license would be contingent upon the council approval of the site plan, subdivision and PUD amendment, insurance of a Certificate of Occupancy and final approval by the Minnesota Alcohol and Gambling Department. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. We have a motion. Is there a second? Councilman McDonald: Second. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilman McDonald. Is there any further discussion? 83 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council approves the request for an off sale intoxicating liquor license from Minnesota Fine Wine and Spirits, LLC dba Total Wine and More at 510 Lake Drive. Approval of the license would be contingent upon the council approval of the site plan, subdivision and PUD amendment; issuance of a certificate of occupancy and final approval by the Minnesota Alcohol and Gambling Department. All voted in favor, except Councilwoman Ryan who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you folks very much for your patience and we’re going to take just about a 3 minute recess for recovering our biological functions so we’re in recess for 3 minutes. (The City Council took a short recess at this point in the meeting.) TOTAL WINE & MORE, 510 LAKE DRIVE, OUTLOT B, VILLAGES ON THE PONDS TH 4 ADDITION: REQUEST FOR AMENDMENT TO PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT; PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT APPROVAL OF APPROXIMATELY THREE ACRES INTO ONE LOT AND ONE OUTLOT (VILLAGES ON THE PONDS 11TH ADDITION); AND SITE PLAN REVIEW TO CONSTRUCT A 19,909 SQUARE FOOT LIQUOR STORE ON PROPERTY ZONED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD). APPLICANT/OWNER: VENTURE PASS PARTNERS, LLC/NORTHCOTT COMPANY. Mayor Laufenburger: May we have a staff report please. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. Again Chanhassen Specialty th Retail, which we know as Total Wine did appear before the Planning Commission on July 7. Again we did talk about some issues regarding liquor but, as I advised the Chairman their job was to talk about the site itself which is what this review is so our charge here is to look at the site plan. Does it meet the ordinances in place and so we’ve recommended, given you a recommendation on that and I’ll go through that. Now again Venture Pass Partners and the developer, underlying developer Northcott. So again we know where it is. Located in Villages on the Pond. Again it was graded out for an office building. Office park. It does have water. It does hold water the rain events but you can see the Village on the Pond is actually in this area here so. Did I state that the Planning Commission voted 6-0 to recommend approval. I don’t know if I, sorry. Mayor Laufenburger: I don’t know if you did but it was in the packet so we’re, council’s aware of that. Kate Aanenson: I’ll get in the right zone here. So I just want to give you a little bit of history of Villages on the Ponds. We had our few snippets here and there trying to put the whole thing together. At the time really the impetus, as we talked about this, was St. Hubert’s Church. St. Hubert’s Church was looking for another location and didn’t have the cash on hand to buy what they believed was the appropriate square footage so they also, the underlying developers at that 84 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 time also wanted to provide additional commercial, which was really controversial at the time to move some commercial across the street. Vernelle can testify to that. So we worked to try to achieve mutual goals. One of the other goals was for it to kind of have housing in this area and also to provide some additional in close proximity office industrial. Again during those hearings they were very similar to what happened tonight. A lot of feelings that this is not a good decision to move commercial across the street. Some people in the surrounding neighborhoods actually chose to move because they didn’t feel it was a good idea but St. Hubert’s went in. They were the lead group that went in so we really saw this as the village because you had the cultural element there with the church and the community gathering place. We also saw it as an opportunity for the extension, kind of they have the Main Street on there for other opportunities and so we put together the shared parking. So this is the time of new urbanism. We’ll go back in 1995 where we have vertical/horizontal mix so we actually had anticipated kind of the quaint, what you would see maybe in Wayzata and Excelsior. Where you had individual smaller stores and to do that as was stated earlier we said no single user could be bigger than 20,000 square feet and that was to make sure we captured that more boutique type feel. So there is shared parking. One of the things that came out of this is, they wanted on street parking. At that time our engineering department said it will not have on street parking on public streets and so the developer came back and said okay we’ll make them all private, except for the one public through street that is there today. So that’s a brief history of it. A little bit further I’ll talk a little bit more about some of those thresholds that were put in, that were studied under the environmental assessment document. So tonight you’re looking at 3 applications for review. A subdivision, a site plan and a PUD amendment for the signage. So Villages on the Ponds uses, so this was what the original concept for the uses. You can see was for the institutional. St. Hubert’s has added on. Their school added on for the institutional. That was again anticipated, oh we’re missing a zero there. 100,000. 134,000 so it’s bigger than that. The residential uses were kind of right in what imagined there. And going back to Presbyterian Homes we hadn’t anticipated Presbyterian Homes. That’s really probably one of the true ones that we envisioned at the time with the new urbanism project where you have commercial underneath but the difference there is that we ended up with a senior housing which is a little bit different kind of captive audience and disposable income that we thought would be there. You know I think the original was that would be all different types of housing so that was a little bit different as far as some of the, we looked at parking. We talked about that. Seniors don’t have, not a lot of those, not all the seniors in there have cars or parking needs so that freed up some of the parking in that development itself and then the commercial office, so we still have another 92,500 square feet for commercial or office opportunities there so we haven’t maxed out the development which is the point I was trying to make before. I apologize that that chart wasn’t that clear. So these are just to give you an idea of some of the uses that are out there and architectural style. So this is, is a PUD and in that PUD we are very prescriptive on some of the things that went in here and that was architecture to be different. To call out types of materials which we hadn’t done in the past and then also the sign package was a lot different. Again when we originally put this together we thought there’d be cute little signs that would be hanging out facing the street and as it turned out over time, as we’ve talked about, as the market changed you had to respond to some of that so when AmericInn went in right away that was a taller sign. That area was given more height than some of the signage but you can look at Houlihan’s and Culver’s. When Culver’s went in we recommended, the planning staff recommended against drive thru’s. We didn’t want this. We wanted it to be walkable and at that time the City Council disagreed and supported the drive 85 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 thru and so there has been things in there that have changed over time. You know one of the things we always saw as a key component was a delicatessen. Those sort of things. More boutique but as it ended up Lakewinds, which is a great component to having a grocery store in walking proximity of some of that. Or like we talk about two trips. You maybe go to church or drop your kids off at school or swimming lessons. You can pick up some groceries within that proximity. And then we’ve got Lake Susan Apartments which is across the street. They also do, we talk about that with the pedestrian access. Lake Susan Apartments was again one of the early ones to come in here and that again allowed built in consumers to participate in some of the activity over there. With this PUD we also took a significant amount of green space on the southern end that wasn’t developable. Originally I think they wanted to do some sort of dock boating sort of things but we kept that as natural preserve area so the hard cover is able to maximize more because we preserved under the PUD we balanced that out so that was some of the framework issues as we put this together. So some of the uses we have in there weren’t on our radar. You know Foss School was our first prototype that was outside of an inside a shopping mall. It’s been a great component to the center and now you can see we’ve got the village shops that are underway and we talked about those earlier. Davanni’s and who am I missing there? Todd Gerhardt: Hurricane Grill. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. So kind of the history and you can see the different types of architectural application there so this again we had restricted the amount of EIFS and the like. So here’s the overall parking. I want to show you that because that’s come up time and time again so required 1,631 and then provided 1,712. Now to be clear are there times that some of the restaurants it’s crowded but they can overflow and that’s how it was set up. That was always part of the original plan is that there’s going to be ebbs and flows in uses. It’s really not unlike what we have at the Legion and Park Nicollet. The Legion’s going to have bigger parties at night, on the weekends and they use part of Park Nicollet’s so it’s that sharing. That group sharing and again that’s all managed as a part of the HOA. If there’s questions on any of these as I’m zipping along. Mayor Laufenburger: By the way Kate, your reference to Park Nicollet and American Legion, somebody should probably remind Park Nicollet of that because there are times that I’ve seen them with people patrolling saying oh no, you can’t be in here. Kate Aanenson: Oh yeah. Yeah that was part of their original agreement to work together on that so. So the parking as indicated, there’s sufficient parking and there’s going to be peak times. Whether we talked about whether it’s Foss Swim School or peak times if there’s a program at the church or maybe a very large funeral that’s going to spill over and but everybody kind of knows. Like maybe there’s some spots in Summerwood. People learn to navigate that if they’re a frequent user of that area. I’m going to let the City Engineer talk a little bit about the trip generation. This is what we were referring to earlier. We had put in the first part and then we added in what the previous use was with, that got approved and that was the grocery so. Paul Oehme: Mayor, City Council members. This graph shows basically what we are projecting for trips to be generated for the proposed use on this site. So 19,900 square foot building using 86 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 our trip generations IT manual that are used nationwide for these types of uses. We’re projecting about 880 trips per day so it’s not, it’s a total day. It’s not an hourly trip generation but it’s a per day basis. What was originally envisioned for this particular site through the EAW was up to 36,000 square foot office building which would have generated 1,450 trips and down here it’s showing the peak hours. And so and I also wanted to reference the approved plan for this site for the specialty grocers. That’s shown down here and that’s basically, the specialty grocers was approved for 14,000 square foot plus an additional 8,000 retail strip that would potentially have been built later so in all that, that development piece that would have generated roughly about 1,700. 1,800 trips per day so based upon you know what we, what was already been approved. What the EAW had approved we feel that the total trips generated by Total Wine here is substantially less than what was originally approved by the PUD. 36,000 square foot business and the specialty grocer that was approved last year. Kate Aanenson: So the next thing we’ll talk about is the site plan itself. We talked a little bit about, I know there’s questions on orientation. I’ll show some renderings in a second but this would be similar to what we did with the, looking at the specialty grocery. Hiding similar to what we tried to do with Lakewinds is where you have the landscape wall where you have the single loading dock and then try to get articulation and fenestration on all sides of the building and I think the developer spoke of this. I think the first time they met with us they were a little disappointed in the fact that we rejected their plan outright and sent them back to the drawing board because we felt it didn’t meet our architectural standards out there so they regrouped and came back with some pretty significant changes and we believe is consistent with all the other projects we had out there. So again. Mayor Laufenburger: Kate. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: You made reference to Lakewinds. Is the Lakewinds building in the corner of their property? Kate Aanenson: When you say in the corner, yes. They back up to the street similar like this. Mayor Laufenburger: So they back up to the street. They also back up right to the parking for Starbucks don’t they? Kate Aanenson: Well to get into their parking lot but if you go, where their loading dock is, I mean there’s times that there’s a truck right in that area where you try to get through in there. Waiting to stack into the loading dock and their trash compactor but you can come around the public street. I can go back to that in a second. So they incorporated the EIFS and they incorporated all the articulation that we asked for and I’ll go through that in a little bit more detail but the site plan itself, this is the internal. Meets the landscaping requirements and then they’re doing the improvements on the additional parking. So I’ll go through a little bit more detail in the site plan. So this is the articulation of the building itself. The sign bands. So when we go back to the PUD again I said the original sign premise out there was that we’d have these cute perpendicular signs that would hang over and you’d walk underneath. Again thinking it’s 87 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 much more walkable. Probably a little bit more vertical but over time as we’ve looked at AmericInn and the Community Bank had asked for a variance. We looked at how the use has changed a little bit different than what we envisioned. Potentially the same mix of uses but in different formats so when the specialty grocery came in we looked at doing a sign variance. Now a variance for a sign has different criteria but we also make it specific to that and in doing that we thought we should really level the playing field for everybody else within that district and I’ll show you a little bit, there was a sign comparison in the executive summary, I’ll go through that but this is the material sample. I have the sample board here too. Again metal roof. Brick, kind of the cement masonry units. Cut face block which is similar to what we have out there already. Again awnings. Again highly articulated on all sides. And again screening so it meets the city code. We’ve got the lighting. We have wall packs and then parking lot lighting consistent with the PUD. So we’ll talk a little bit here about the PUD amendment. So originally in the Sector 1 is where we allowed some of the wall signs to go on because they had the visibility from Highway 5 but then we looked at the bank and we gave them a taller wall sign via variance. We’ve already given one so we looked at the Sector 2 because we had given it to the specialty grocery and the Planning Commission and the City Council agreed to that so when the applicant came in they said well we’d like to try for the same one. Then we did say well instead of looking at that on a case by case basis, let’s treat everybody in that sector the same. So the unique thing, attribute about this site is that it does have 4 frontages on a street, and that’s how our ordinance works. It says if you have, as this was spelled out by somebody else at the hearing earlier, if you have frontage on each street then you’re allowed a wall sign and it’s all prescriptive in the fact, it depends on your height and the width of that wall frontage and it caps because we said you can’t make your building artificially big to maximize that so there’s a cap that all businesses would be bound to. So there’s different sectors that have different requirements for signs so we’re in Sector 1 and that’s what we’re recommending. Not the variance but the PUD amendment so everybody else would be treated the same that would be in that same sector. So if you look at this, this kind of shows you where their main visibility is. They’re looking across the pond so that’s the one visibility and then to 101 so those are the ones that we said we would support them being larger. Getting the most visibility as the hotel did. And then these would be the two smaller ones. Again they all have access facing a street and that’s what our ordinance says. Again the height was restricted to no more than 20 feet so the height on their proposed sign is between 21 and 27 feet so that’s the second part of that. To go higher than one story. So this is the sign band located on the building. This is north and west elevation. And then this is again is a little bit more articulated rendering of the building itself showing, you know we require pitched roofs in this PUD and so you can see there’s different interpretations of that so this does meet that requirement. It’s a parapet type pitch and then the pitched element up here. So I was asked to do a comparison of all the other liquor stores and then I also wanted to compare apples to apples and show what else we had in Villages on the Ponds so if you look at Haskell’s, they could have put in, they have one frontage and that’s frontage on Highway 5. So they were allowed 164 square feet. They used 85.5 and that has to do a factor with the size of the building or if they would have created you know a taller building to make that happen so they didn’t capitalize that so they have two signs so there must be one over the door on the other side and then Cheers same thing. They could have had 194. Went with 89. Lunds and Byerly’s just came in for a variance because as you know they just put the two names together and changed their logo and so cumulatively they have, so it’s hard for me to break it down because they came in cumulatively but they also did receive a variance on that. 88 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Then the Century Wine could have gone to 91 to 150. They came in at 62. That’s the BN’s the underlying district and they have 3 signs on 3 different elevations. So that’s the one that’s located north of Highway 5. And then 7 and 41, the liquor store up there. There’s 2 signs on the building. East elevation is 72 and the north elevation is 31 so again they could have gone up to 160. Now that was already an existing building that they went into so that architecture was already set in place. Mayor Laufenburger: Have they, that on 7 and 41, they are on the corner. They’re on the east end of that strip aren’t they? Kate Aanenson: (yes). Mayor Laufenburger: Is there room for anybody else to be building next to them? Kate Aanenson: Well we’ve got 2 pads that are going to go in and that’s closer to the 41 side. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay but they’re not part of that, they’re not part of the building. Kate Aanenson: No, they’re separate. Separate parcel, yep. Two lots on there. And then Vintage, again we talked about. This is the Kraus-Anderson one. That’s in the BN district and they have signs on both east and west sides and again they could have gone to 180. Again a lot of it has to do with the architecture and how you plan for that. Same with MGM, 139 so Total Wine goes from 168 to 213. Again it’s capped at 5 percent of your wall space. Now just for comparison I pulled up what we did because you know we had a lot of discussion on the Children’s Learning Center and the 50 foot high height and the neon they were trying to use to capture so they’re at, their signs which say After School, Preschool, they were, they’re located at 22 to 32 feet in height and they’re also 168 square feet. So what I’m trying to say is that it really, there’s a nexus there between building scale and if you go into an existing building that’s already pre-set for you as opposed to building where you can accommodate what you want to on your sign package so again our rational basis for was that the fact that we’d given it to the grocer that we felt like, instead of doing it via a variance that would be more fair for everybody else and that could capture that same opportunity for a future building to do that and we already had given the variance to the bank. So looking at those, kind of what, you know comparing what’s in that PUD would be the AmericInn at 195. Community Bank could have gotten 200. They came in at 108 and then Lakewinds, they could have gone to 179 and 60. Now within the sign ordinance itself you’re allowed to put a graphic in there so every sign’s different in the fact that how many words they have. You know like we know Lunds and Byerlys need a variance because they said now we’re, they even dropped the apostrophe to make it work so, that’s what they told us to make it work in other cities so there’s just different ways that people approach the sign so it’s hard for me to say, you know when the question was asked, they’re all a little bit different. Have different needs so any questions on that? Mayor Laufenburger: So just to restate Kate, the signage that’s being recommended for approval. I know you call it a PUD amendment but the signage that’s being recommended for approval for Total Wine is consistent with the signage that was approved for the specialty grocer which is not going in there. 89 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Kate Aanenson: Correct. And it wasn’t like we encouraged them to do it. We just said if they’re going to apply for a variance, which they wanted to do because they applied before, and they said why wouldn’t we apply again? We said we think the correct route is to really to level the playing field for everybody else and again this is a different sector so our amendment is to allow it to go higher than 20 feet and would be Sector 2 that would be now, the PUD amendment would be fore. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: So the plat, so this is one outlot and to have a building lot you must plat it so this would be creating Lot 1, Block 1. Outlot A is the private street that would be under the association. Now in our staff report we talked about preliminary and final. I know there’s been some suggestion about potentially doing a traffic report so if you are going to move in the direction doing a traffic report then my recommendation would be that you just approve preliminary at this time and if you added a condition to do the traffic study then typically what we’d do, we’d review that unless there was a problem then we would, we would do a, put that on consent with a staff report saying how they had met or addressed that. Mayor Laufenburger: But if we did that Kate, if we approved preliminary subject to traffic or successful traffic study, then it automatically will come back to the council. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: Even if it’s on the consent agenda but it will be, it will come back for review. Kate Aanenson: Right exactly but the report would be available for anybody to look at, absolutely. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Yep, so with that I’d be happy to entertain any questions you have but we are recommending approval. Again then just the question there is whether you added the final plat and wanted to add a condition on a traffic study. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is there any questions from council of staff? Councilman McDonald: I guess I’ve got a question. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Okay I, explain to me why we need to do a traffic study. We’ve gone through the thing with the specialty grocery store and we looked at the numbers there. We did the study when the original platting was done and you look for much higher densities at that point as far as traffic. What is this going to tell us exactly? They’re private roads inside of there 90 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 so we’re not going to say you’ve got to widen your streets or anything such as that. The city road that goes through there, that’s not going to change either. What are we going to get out of this study and who pays for it? Paul Oehme: Mayor, City Council. Councilman McDonald. So I think it would give maybe some folks a level of reassurance that the EAW that was drafted and some of the assumptions in traffic numbers that we put together are validated. We’d look at you know intersection, level of services. We’d look at intersections on maybe Highway 101 and Great Plains and look at the intersections at Highway 5. If there’s any impacts. Basically looking at all the intersections in and out of the development and see if we can find, if there’s a level of breakdown or if there’s some other improvements that need to be made to accommodate this development but that was the things that we’d be looking for so. The private streets I want to, they kind of operate as a parking lot right now with the narrowness. There’s parking inside the, on the streets themselves so they’re, you know if we look at level of services for this development they are going to show a low, low level of service because the traffic is slowing and that’s how the development was built and how it was approved so I don’t think it’s going to show that there’s any significant draw below what the level of service in the EAW shows but it’s just going to validate it I think is where, and give some folks a better level of understanding or confidence that the whole development’s not just going to implode with the amount of traffic that potentially would be generated by this development. Councilman McDonald: Okay and who typically pays for that? Paul Oehme: The developer. And we would lead the project. We’d probably get 3 or 4 quotes from traffic engineers that we’ve worked with in the past and then work out an agreement with the developer for them to pay for it. Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you. Kate Aanenson: To kind of piggy back on that. I think one of the things that came up on the grocers is because this is the through street, making sure that it was clearly marked that that would be route for deliveries. That they stay, you know how things go through there. You know just controlling those speeds and that goes to kind of the traffic report. They were concerned about people, other people going, you know cutting through on those smaller roads but again that really is how it was designed to do traffic calming. By having cars parked in the street so you really have to slow down and pay attention so we don’t want to say that if you’re on the public street that you. Mayor Laufenburger: That you can speed. Kate Aanenson: That you can do whatever you want, right. So I think just some of those other techniques that we can look at. We talked about some other signage or control points that may assist in some of that. Or crosswalks for better visualization of intersections so. Mayor Laufenburger: Did you have a follow up question? 91 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilman McDonald: I think that when you mentioned the crosswalks and everything, that’s one of the things that we would point out if there’s a need for that based upon perceived pedestrian traffic and such. Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: But make it clear, that was one of the desires for Villages on the Ponds was pedestrian traffic right? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, okay. Any other questions for staff? Council members. Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan, go ahead. Councilwoman Ryan: It’s not as much a question but an answer to Councilman McDonald because I believe I was one that was bringing up the traffic issues. You know the reason why I think traffic studies are often done and we refer, we’re waiting for the traffic study for the potential development on Lyman and 212 to see if the, that location where the proposed development is going to go can handle the volume of cars and I still come back to this study was done 20 years ago and we, every proposal, or you know these proposals or I’ve gone to the City to ask about crosswalks or stop signs and there has to be a traffic study done in order to make those things move forward. And so the request to have a traffic study is because I still do not believe that this is the right location for Total Wine and I would like to see evidence to show me, and I would you know feel a little more comfortable. I still don’t necessarily know if I, it still doesn’t seem like a fit to me in that location because of the regional nature of Total Wine’s business but it’s a concern and whether or not even the city that comes back to us and staff has a report that says yes, the traffic patterns are great. You know they’re, we live it and we drive it and so we know what we experience when we’re in there and it’s, it’s not a good driving situation as it is today and yet we’re basing this proposal and this information on a study that was done 20 years ago which was a very different Chanhassen and the region, or the trade area as it’s referred to was a very much different situation so that is why I think a traffic study is important because we always do them and I think we need to be consistent and I think it’s important to have that information to move forward. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme can you answer this question for me? When the PUD was originally, application was made for this were there industry standards or tables or calculators or something that you used to predict trips? Is that how you did that? Paul Oehme: That’s correct so the ITE manual. Mayor Laufenburger: What does ITE stand for? Paul Oehme: Institute of Transportation Engineers. 92 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so this is a document that engineers, far smarter than me, use to predict traffic patterns. Traffic movement, things like that. Paul Oehme: Correct. So what they do, they look at retail or specific kinds of commercial applications and they actually go out and measure and quantify how much traffic those are. Mayor Laufenburger: Banks are different than restaurants. Paul Oehme: Exactly so they have numbers for each of those based upon the square footage and what type of use it has. So that’s the numbers that we base our estimates on is what the ITE manual generates or has calculated and estimated for those type of uses. Mayor Laufenburger: How long has that manual been in operation? Since cars began? Paul Oehme: Longer than I’ve been around so. Mayor Laufenburger: Well that’s not very long. Okay, so let’s bring this forward to 2015. 2015, do we still use that ITE manual? Paul Oehme: Yes we do and it gets updated every so often as well as new information becomes available so. Mayor Laufenburger: And new information would become available in the form of how consumer behavior changes at banks or at, I mean I’m sure banks don’t get nearly the traffic today that they got 20 years ago right? Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And I don’t know, maybe coffee shops get much more today than they did so this manual that gets updated have you applied the new manual to some of these stores? Paul Oehme: We’re just using the latest. Mayor Laufenburger: You’re using the latest predictor. Paul Oehme: The latest version. Mayor Laufenburger: The latest version available to you from these International Traffic Engineering organizations. Paul Oehme: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: And what does that current manual say about traffic, trips and yeah. Trips in a specialty wine shop today, what does it tell you? 93 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Paul Oehme: So the Total Wine is the green line on the power point here. So using the ITE manual the 814 is your specialty retail grocery or that fits this category so it tells you that based upon 19,900 square foot building, you’re going to generate about 824 or 820 trips per day from that use so it’s I don’t know, it’s probably 24 trips per day per square foot or there abouts. Mayor Laufenburger: So if I read this correctly in 1996, the 1996 PUD, what does GLA stand for Kate? 36,000. Kate Aanenson: Gross leasable area. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, gross leasable area. For 36,300 which was the amount of gross leasable area predicted back in 1996 the ITE manual said you’re going to get 1,450 trips per day, correct? Paul Oehme: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: And today what you’re saying that manual or the current version of that manual is saying that 19,900 square feet of Total Wine and More is going to create 820 trips per day. Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so where’s that 36,300 GLA? Where is that located? Is that located beyond the current plot? Kate Aanenson: Well I can address that. Mayor Laufenburger: Please. Kate Aanenson: So that would have been again the shape of all the uses that were in there were under that by 92,000. Mayor Laufenburger: All of the uses in the piece of property that’s going to be called Lot 1, Block 1? Kate Aanenson: No. All of the uses in the PUD. So we have those different sectors. So the retail is different than was originally studied. It’s less intense so we were anticipating another 92. There is some additional sites that could be built on but it’s not built to the capacity that we studied. It’s under that capacity. Mayor Laufenburger: What’s the, if you take Total Wine. Take that 19,900 square foot out of that gross leasable area, how much square footage is over there now? Is in place in the Pond right now? Kate Aanenson: Well we had a different user there and I can’t remember, so that we had the, as we talked about, we had underground parking with a hotel on the top. 94 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Vernelle Clayton: Extended Stay hotel. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Do you know how many square feet? Vernelle Clayton: And they had conference room… Kate Aanenson: Do you know what the total square footage was? Vernelle Clayton: It was 26,000 for the footprint times 3. Kate Aanenson: Times 3 so it had 3 stories at 26,000 so it had a conference center and the like so yes, it was more intense. Again that’s what I’m saying the original concept would have been this site would have been more vertical. Mayor Laufenburger: So we’re replacing what was thought in 1996 was going to be a 78,000 square foot multi-level with a single level, 19,900 square feet and we’re hearing from Mr. Oehme that the traffic, or the trips that would have been generated before were 1,450 and now the predictor is 820. Kate Aanenson: I would say that a little bit differently in the fact that we studied the total office and commercial under one scenario. We didn’t know about the hotel. That came in much later but made certain assumptions about institutional uses. Residential uses. You know we predicted there would be 323 and we missed by 1 so. Todd Gerhardt: First come first served. Kate Aanenson: So anyway so the office and commercial, again we made an anticipation there’d be 291,000 gross square feet of commercial retail so we didn’t specifically there. We said overall this is where it would be and as things took shape we always measure what is the total under that environmental document, what’s the total we anticipated for that so we didn’t go over that because the trip generation was the driving force of what uses could go in there. That was always our measuring stick so what I’m saying is that we’re under that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: And that other project would have been closer to the max. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilman Campion, you have any comment or question? Councilman Campion: Yeah just a follow up question for Mr. Oehme. So I get the tables and the manuals suggest that for a retail store of this type, of this size it predicts this but would an updated EAW take into consideration extra factors such as adjacent businesses that may be new as well as the flow, the flow rate of the major crossroads? 95 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Paul Oehme: Yeah absolutely Mayor, City Council members. So what we would do for a traffic study is actually look at exactly what’s built out there and look at the traffic going in and out of the development. We’d look at the uses that are going to be going in there. The two restaurants obviously we’re going to estimate those and then add to that potentially the Total Wine as well so we look at the base. What we see out there today for the traffic and then add the new development that’s potentially out there and projected in the future as well so we’re looking at, looking at a lot of factors when we put the traffic data together and find out if we have a problem with you know access or egress or pedestrian movements and those type of things. Councilman Campion: So is that ITE manual, is that more a rough approximately or a starting point to do then a more detailed analysis? Paul Oehme: Well it’s, well the more analysis, the more detailed analysis actually goes out in field and when we generate, when you look at actually the trips that are coming in and out of the development so that’s, you know what we’re showing here is just the estimated trips generated by the new development that would be going in there so we’d look at exactly what the trips are today in the development and add to that the new trips generated by the proposed. Mayor Laufenburger: The predicted or the estimated. Paul Oehme: The estimated so and then we look at the intersections and potentially what back up’s there would be. Kate Aanenson: Peak hours. Paul Oehme: Peak hours and those type of things so. Councilman Campion: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: You indicated Kate historically the developer pays for that. Paul what’s a traffic study on this cost? Paul Oehme: This one is a little bit higher intense than most of them that we have seen so basically we’d have to look at every intersection in and out of the development so there’s 2 on 101. Great Plains we’d look at. We’d have to look at Highway 5 and Great Plains. 101 and. Mayor Laufenburger: Lake Drive East? Paul Oehme: Lake Drive East, yep. This intersection over here too so then we always look at the internal intersections as well. How they function so there’s a lot of existing data or background data that we have to capture to make sure that we’re generating a report that we look at the entire impacts not just for the development but for the public infrastructure and public streets in and around the development. Mayor Laufenburger: I think the happiest days in Market Square are when that parking lot is just jammed packed full and the natural behavior, the natural consumer behavior that kids in is slow 96 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 down. That’s the most common in the winter I think. Of course you’ve got 2 big holidays, Thanksgiving and Christmas. People are, they wish what? Yeah they wish they had a plane probably or a Smart car, something like that. Maybe that’s what we need is a Smart car dealership. Do you know anything about that? Todd Gerhardt: We can get you a bike though. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan did you have any other questions or comments about that? Councilwoman Ryan: I have another comment. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Councilwoman Ryan: I find it interesting that nobody has ever heard of the ITE manual before since it’s. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh wait, that’s not true. That’s not true. Councilman McDonald: That’s not why, no. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s not true and I would also say that your comment earlier about you’re the one that raised the question on traffic. You were the one that spoke about it but I think it was on other people’s minds as well. The ITE manual has been used and I’ve seen reference to the ITE manual many, many times. The question that I asked of Mr. Oehme wasn’t for my own benefit. It was really for the benefit of those people that are watching at home and also other people that may not know about it so that’s a manual that is repeatedly used by Paul or by Carver County or by anybody. It’s a predictor. You know it’s what we use to plan for movement around parks. Around. Councilman McDonald: We used it at Walmart. Mayor Laufenburger: Walmart, absolutely. Councilman McDonald: Powers intersection. Councilwoman Ryan: So but why is it being used in this case and when we talk about the regional mall and the, and Lyman or at, and that they had done a, you know, we’re asking them to do an AUAR. Kate Aanenson: Yes, I can answer that question because when we did that AUAR 40 or more acres of that was guided low density residential so when the Comprehensive Plan we up zoned all that property to regional commercial so the traffic study for that was out of date because we didn’t, we accommodated residential growth and not industrial so what I was trying to point out here is we did accommodate that and we’re under. On the other project we up zoned it and we 97 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 hadn’t accommodated for it so we were going to overshoot that and we needed to study what that was. Councilwoman Ryan: And same for the Children’s Learning Center. Because we got a traffic report for that and traffic. Kate Aanenson: Yes and we changed the zoning on that too. This one we didn’t change the zoning so it was consistent but we changed that from up zoned it and that’s, we looked at peak hours because that came up as an issue with the apartment project too. They said that that was, we did a traffic study for the apartment and then part of our issue there was to show that there’s going to be peak hours will probably be more impactful than the apartment building so we wanted to show what those turn movements would be when you have all the parents coming at the same time to drop their kids off. Councilwoman Ryan: Right, I just have not seen a study or a PUD where we haven’t referenced traffic and move, you know traffic patterns and movements and I just, I don’t understand that. Mayor Laufenburger: Well Councilwoman Ryan I think that whenever we ask city staff to answer a question about predicting either behavior, consumer behavior. The behavior of water. The behavior of anything, we know that the city staff whether it’s Mr. Oehme or whether it’s anybody else, they’re going to use the tools of their trade which are foreign to us but we ask them to come back with a substantiation of why they believe this or why they feel like they can predict this and in many cases we end up asking them to turn into a little bit of an educator and tell us why is it that that’s what you’re using as a predictor or why is it that you think that 16 inches of pipe is enough instead of you know 24 inches of pipe. That’s what city staff does for us so whether you call it a traffic study or a predicted behavior on consumer behavior driving cars and trucks, it’s all the same thing. It means answer this question for us because we don’t know the answer to the question. That’s what it is for me. Councilman McDonald: Well and hence that was my question of why we’re doing this but what I’m willing to accept is that okay if we need to relook at some of these intersections then fine, let’s go ahead and spend the money and get the answers. Otherwise what’s going to change? That’s why I asked the question because I don’t think anything is going to change. I mean based upon the years and the studies that went into it in the beginning, that’s why I questioned it so it’s, I have experience in there too and I understand how it works but that’s why you ask the question of staff and that’s why you look at these reports and that’s what they’re based upon. That’s all you can base them upon. So that’s yeah, in order to relook at some of the intersections, okay it’s worth it to do that. Mayor Laufenburger: We’ll come back to that if you’d like. Any other questions of staff? Dave Carlin: I know it’s not a public hearing… Mayor Laufenburger: We may come to you on that Dave but just hold off on a second. Mr. Oehme can you explain to me how the traffic will move into and out of the property. Or Kate, one of you. 98 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Paul Oehme: The Total Wine? Mayor Laufenburger: The Total Wine property, yeah. Just give me an idea, a visual of how traffic’s going to move into and out of. Paul Oehme: Do you want on the site or through the development? Mayor Laufenburger: Well I assume that they’re going to come into the development either off 101 or they’re going to come off 5 but when they, when they see well I want to go Total Wine what entrances are we going to give them to enter into the parking lot? Kate Aanenson: Yeah they can come in. Mayor Laufenburger: Where are you at? Paul Oehme: Go to the site plan. Kate Aanenson: Pardon me? Mayor Laufenburger: Go to the green and white one that shows the building. Kate Aanenson: Okay this one. Mayor Laufenburger: There, perfect. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, yeah so I mean you can come in, there’s an entrance here. The main entrance here. Mayor Laufenburger: So they would come off 101 and make a left turn right into there, okay. Kate Aanenson: Yep, or they can come in on this side also on Pond Promenade. Lake Drive or Pond Promenade. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so that’s two. Alright. How about, how about delivery vehicles, how are they going to get in? Kate Aanenson: I believe they’re coming in the same direction and then they’re backing in. Paul Oehme: Right. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: So they’re coming in off of Lake Drive? Kate Aanenson: Or they could come in this way too. 99 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: And then come up here and then back in, okay. Okay. And how many parking places are in there? Is it 194? 164? Paul Oehme: 84 within the parking lot. Mayor Laufenburger: 184? Paul Oehme: 84 in the site itself and then another 74 on street so we’re counting the parking stalls on Promenade here. All these stalls are going to be created. All these stalls are going to be created as well. Kate Aanenson: So they’re exceeding their requirements. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Carlin you’re the applicant for this, did you want to address the council? Dave Carlin: I do and thank you again. So Dave Carlin, Venture Pass Partners again and I did want to introduce Randy Rauwerdink and Jim Ottenstein who are also with the development company and I, you know just in terms of the traffic. We don’t have an issue with the cost of a traffic study. You know our circumstances here was this time last fall we were trying to get in the ground with Trader Joe’s. We retooled this project as Total Wine. You know it’s Minnesota so we’re trying… Mayor Laufenburger: What I’m hearing you say is you don’t want to, you don’t want to delay this. Dave Carlin: Yeah that’s my concern is you know and we’ve got a great relationship with staff and when you hear about you know we’ve got to come up with a scope of project. We have to get 3 bids. Right now the engineers and consultants are extremely busy. If we’ve got to drop meters out on the, I mean you know it does two things for us. It potentially delays the project but it also puts us in a situation where if there’s still some uncertainty you know relative to our ability to proceed with the project it’s really hard to do the final construction drawings and the things we need with the general contractor to be in a position to start the project this fall and then we get into next year we’ve got the same thing you hear with all the major projects. You’ve got cost creep in terms of cost but we also have issues with our land seller so I mean it puts us into a difficult position. We had, I mean with staff and also with Vernelle independent of any approval we had already initiated some discussions about some way finding and some things that we would be doing you know internally to make sure that the traffic functioned and you know again, this is an association. It’s a little different than just a scattered bunch of property owners. There’s an association that’s already in place. This is a project that was approved. I feel like our traffic generators are so far below the threshold and it almost just seems you know a little bit, I won’t say arbitrary but the last project in was fine you know and then all of a sudden we’re at the point where we need to revisit everything that happened in the last 20 years. One of the benefits of stepping into an existing project that had an EAW, that you had infrastructure that was created based on certain assumptions and you would think as long as you were well inside of those 100 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 certain assumptions that you can proceed and I just get nervous about the, you know the uncertainty of the project if there’s still a pretty broad right to approve or disapprove of a traffic study and you know frankly we’re, you know how we would deal with impacts if somebody said you know 2 intersections down needed some work. Mayor Laufenburger: Gotch ya. Thank you Mr. Carlin. Any other questions from council? Can you put that motion back up please? So this is the time where I invite either comment or motion. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I will make a motion. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’m going to make a motion that City Council approves a preliminary th plat and final plat for Villages on the Ponds 11 Addition, a site plan for Chanhassen specialty retail, a planned unit development amendment to the sign criteria subject to the conditions of the staff report and adopts the Findings of Fact. Mayor Laufenburger: So the motion reads exactly as the recommendation from city staff, is that correct Councilwoman Tjornhom? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, we have a motion. Is there a second? Councilman McDonald: I’ll second but I have a question. Mayor Laufenburger: After you second it I’ll open it for discussion. Councilman McDonald: Second. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Councilman McDonald. We have a valid motion and a second, is there any discussion? Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I have a question. Okay the way that this is set up then, if I’m correct originally staff did not want a traffic study so that would say that there’s not going to be one based upon this motion, is that correct? Mayor Laufenburger: Is the Findings of Fact Kate, does it include any reference to a traffic study? Kate Aanenson: No. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so you are correct Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Okay, that’s all I wanted to know. Thank you. 101 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Tjornhom: May I make a comment on that? Mayor Laufenburger: Yes you can. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I realize that Councilman McDonald and that’s because I don’t think there needs to be a traffic study. I think that this development was built out for the purpose of traffic being in it and it’s obviously right now operating way below capacity and this new building that’s coming into it and the business will be operating way below capacity of a hotel and retail center and so I believe it is taking up the developer’s time and money and it’s stopping the progress of the project that we, most of us I believe was a good thing for Chanhassen. Councilman McDonald: Okay and if I could just say I agree with you and that’s why I wanted to make sure what was in there. What I was voting for because yeah I too, as I said earlier, I was not that convinced about the traffic study but if it made everybody feel better, fine but I don’t think we should hold up development. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Any other discussion? Councilwoman Ryan did you want to make a comment? Councilwoman Ryan: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure, go ahead. Councilwoman Ryan: And this just refer, and I spoke to it earlier in the night but the Findings of Fact, letter (f) where it talks about traffic generation and it said it was within the capabilities of the streets serving the property and again I come back to I just, I don’t agree that this location can accommodate this business. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Anybody, any other discussion? Councilman Campion: I guess my commentary here is I would support a traffic study to look at the intersections. I think that that could potentially improve this development if you know if that study looked at the development as it has grown over the years and can potentially make it an even better development. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Any further discussion? There being none I’m going to ask for a vote. Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the Chanhassen th City Council approve the preliminary and final plat for Villages on the Ponds 11 Addition; site plan for Chanhassen Specialty Retail as shown in plans dated Received June 18, 2015, and Planned Unit Development Amendment to the sign criteria subject to the following conditions and adopts the Findings of Fact and Recommendation: 102 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 SUBDIVISION Park 1.Full park fees in lieu of additional parkland dedication and/or trail construction shall be collected as a condition of approval for the proposed plat of Lot 1, Block 1, Villages on the th Ponds 11 Addition. The park fees will be collected in full at the rate in force upon final plat submission and approval. Based upon the current commercial park fee rate of $12,500 per acre, the total park fees would be $33,875. Engineering 1.The plat must be revised to include a 10-foot wide perimeter drainage and utility easement on Lot 1, Block 1. 2.The fees collected with the final plat are: Surface Water Management fee, Park Dedication fee, and GIS fee ($25 for the plat + $10/parcel). 3.City water (WAC), city sewer (SAC) and Metropolitan Council sewer (Metro SAC) fees will be collected with the building permit and will be calculated based on the uses within the building. Water Resources 1.An estimated $54,610.02 in storm water utility connection charges shall be due at final plat. 2.The property owner shall execute and record against the property a maintenance agreement in a format provided by the city for the pervious pavement, underground filtration, sump manholes and Contech Jellyfish™ Filter. 3.The applicant shall apply for and procure all other necessary permits. SITE PLAN Engineering 1.Based on the proposed grading on the north side of site the grading plan may require some revisions in order to maintain drainage from the existing improvements to the north. Building 1.The buildings are required to have automatic fire extinguishing systems. 2.Building plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of Minnesota. 103 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 3.Detailed occupancy-related requirements will be addressed when complete building plans are submitted. 4.Provide a 1:200 scale drawing of subdivision. 5.The owner and/or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures. Fire Marshal 1.Provide a three-foot clear space around fire hydrants. 2.Yellow-painted curb and “No Parking Fire Lane” signs will be required. Applicant shall contact Fire Marshal for specific locations. 3.No P.I.V. (post indicator valve) will be required. Natural Resource Specialist 1.The interior width of all islands must be a minimum of 10 feet. 2.A total of 13 trees must be planted within the vehicular use area. Planning: 1.The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the City and provide the necessary security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping. 2.The street/sidewalk lights along Main Street have to be preserved and operational when the site construction is completed. 3.Condition has been met. 4.The light poles may not exceed 20 feet in height. 5.All Wall Packs (WPI) shall be replaced with Wall Packs (WP2). Water Resources 1.The Surface Water Pollution Prevention Plan with all elements required by the NPDES Construction Permit shall be prepared and supplied to the city for approval prior to any earth- disturbing activities. 2.Proof of the NPDES Construction Permit having been procured by the applicant shall be supplied to the city prior to any earth-disturbing activities. 104 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 3.A dewatering plan, specific to the existing pond, shall be prepared and submitted to the city for review and approval prior to any earth-disturbing activities. 4.Areas immediately tributary to the pervious pavement, including disturbed areas behind the back of curb, must be stabilized within 24 hours of construction of the pervious pavement areas. PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT The City Council approve the Planned Unit Development amendment in the attached ordinance for Villages on the Ponds to allow signs to be placed higher than 20 feet within Sector I, and for the size of letters to be increased to 48 inches along the west and north elevations as shown (amendments are shown in bold), belowand including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation: Wall Signs 1.The location of letters and logos shall be restricted to the approved building sign bands, the s I and tops of which shall not extend greater than 20 feet above the ground. In Sector II, sign height may be increase based on the criteria that the signage is compatible with and complementary to the building architecture and design. The letters and logos shall be except along the north and west elevations for restricted to a maximum of 30 inches in height buildings within sectors I and II. These letters may be increased to 48 inches . All individual letters and logos comprising each sign shall be constructed of wood, metal, or translucent facing. 2.If illuminated, individual dimensional letters and logos comprising each sign may be any of the following: a. Exposed neon/fiber optic, b. Open channel with exposed neon, c. Channel Letters with acrylic facing, d. Reverse channel letters (halo lighted), or e. Externally illuminated by separate lighting source. 3.Tenant signage shall consist of store identification only. Copy is restricted to the tenant’s proper name and major product or service offered. Corporate logos, emblems and similar identifying devices are permitted provided they are confined within the signage band and do not occupy more than 15% of the sign area unless the logo is the sign. 4.s I and Within Sector II, architecturally, building-integrated panel tenant/logo sign may be permitted based on criteria that the signage is compatible with and complementary to the 105 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Architectural elements specifically created to increase building design and architecture. signage height are prohibited. 5. Backlit awnings are prohibited. All voted in favor except for Councilwoman Ryan and Councilman Campion who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 2. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay that motion carries 3-2. The council recommendation or the staff recommendation is approved. Thank you very much for your patience folks. We have a couple more items on our agenda. We can go through these pretty quickly. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Todd Gerhardt: We have an update on our local street projects by our City Engineer Paul Oehme. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, can you give us an update please? Paul Oehme: Absolutely. So we’re well into the construction season this year now so we’ve got several projects underway as you probably can attest to. One of, the biggest project, local projects that we have is the Carver Beach project so that’s a little over, or it’s about 4.8 miles worth of streets in the Carver Beach neighborhood so that project is going fine. Most of the utilities in that project area are done now. I think there’s a couple little storm sewer left on Western Drive to put in and that should be in by the end of this week here. The milling machine should be out next week. We’re going to be grinding up about a third of the streets in that neighborhood starting this week and notices went out for that last Thursday I believe for that section of road so once we grind up that street, we’re going to be using that milling as our base course and repaving that so once we get that section almost complete we’re going to go to Phase 2 and then Phase 3 so we’re moving along in that project. That one we’re a little bit behind schedule with the, because of the rain. We’re anticipating the first week in September for that base course to be put down so looking forward to getting those streets back together. The Kerber Boulevard project, again we’re a little bit behind there now just because of the last rain event that we had. The contractor did work on Saturday to replace the sanitary sewer near Powers Boulevard so we’re replacing or sub-cutting that area out and rebuilding that section of road up. Pavement section up today and through Wednesday I believe and we’re anticipating the base course, the first lift of the asphalt on Kerber Boulevard to be put down on Friday. So and then wear course would be the next week so that one’s hopefully in a little over a week’s time we should have a paved surface on Kerber Boulevard. The river crossing project, that one’s moving along very nicely now. The contractor is putting in some overtime in and really making progress on putting in the pilings for the bridge project. They’re almost done filling that gap where they found that poor soil that those 30 inch piles are almost complete. I think that should be done by the end of this week and then they’re closing the gap from our north end abutment to where those 30 inch piles are so they’re anticipating completing the pilings by the end of August here and then working on bridge work. The good news for that project is that the roundabout and 61 from 101 going down the bluff to the east side of the roundabout would, they’re anticipating opening that section of 61 with the roundabout on Friday, late after 6:00 or so after the rush hour. 106 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: That means traffic will now be able to go from Chaska eastbound all the way to Eden Prairie is that correct? Paul Oehme: They can’t go from Chaska. They can go from 101. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh excuse me, they can go from 101 from right at the Golf Zone. Paul Oehme: Exactly. Yep so Golf Zone down through the roundabout and then there will be a temporary signal on the east side of the roundabout to have traffic to go down to south across the river. Mayor Laufenburger: Across the river on. Paul Oehme: On the existing causeway so we’re getting rid of, or eliminating that big detour into Eden Prairie so that’s a big benefit. The rest of 61, that’s not anticipated to be open until I think the end of September but they’re making good progress on the soil replacement on that section of road and the bridge, the big river crossing bridge and all the roadway sections we’re anticipating everything to be open by the end of November. So we’re still on schedule as per contract for that. Mayor Laufenburger: Fantastic, okay. Anything else Mr. Oehme? Paul Oehme: That’s it for now, thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Anything else Mr. Gerhardt? Todd Gerhardt: No. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. Mayor Laufenburger: Any council presentations at this time? Mr. Campion. Councilman Campion: I just wanted to comment from the administrative section. Should I wait for that or? Mayor Laufenburger: No. You mean on the correspondence packet? Councilman Campion: In the administrative section after the correspondence packet. I gave my notes to Todd from the League of Minnesota Cities, the annual conference that I attended in thth Duluth at the end of June. The 24 through the 26 so I just wanted to comment that I have notes in there on the sessions that I attended and some ideas that I heard about that I wanted to share with the council and have staff look into a couple of items in more depth. Just want to point out that those are there. 107 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Let’s do this if we can, Mr. Gerhardt can you just make a determination to find some time during a work session when we can talk about this. Is that alright? Todd Gerhardt: Sure. Mayor Laufenburger: Sometime in the coming months carve out 15-20 minutes or something like that. Todd Gerhardt: Yep. Mayor Laufenburger: Is that acceptable Mr. Campion? Councilman Campion: Yeah and then it’s kind of late and there’s not many members of the public left here but I did want to throw some kudos out to Beth Hoiseth for the Safety Camp. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh yeah. th Councilman Campion: That was put on July 15. My daughter attended that with a few of her friends and learned a great deal and had a lot of fun. Mayor Laufenburger: And while we’re talking kudos, many of us participated in the Buy Chanhassen Night on the Town last week and I know that there was great appreciation for th closing off 78 Street from Laredo down to Great Plains and that was worthwhile so a lot of kids came out. Need more garbage cans available next year. Todd Gerhardt: Alright. Mayor Laufenburger: Any other comments? If not how about a motion for adjournment? Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman Campion seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 12:10 a.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 108