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CC Minutes 07-27-2015Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council approves the request for an off sale intoxicating liquor license from Minnesota Fine Wine and Spirits, LLC dba Total Wine and More at 510 Lake Drive. Approval of the license would be contingent upon the council approval of the site plan, subdivision and PUD amendment; issuance of a certificate of occupancy and final approval by the Minnesota Alcohol and Gambling Department. All voted in favor, except Councilwoman Ryan who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you folks very much for your patience and we’re going to take just about a 3 minute recess for recovering our biological functions so we’re in recess for 3 minutes. (The City Council took a short recess at this point in the meeting.) TOTAL WINE & MORE, 510 LAKE DRIVE, OUTLOT B, VILLAGES ON THE PONDS TH 4 ADDITION: REQUEST FOR AMENDMENT TO PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT; PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT APPROVAL OF APPROXIMATELY THREE ACRES INTO ONE LOT AND ONE OUTLOT (VILLAGES ON THE PONDS 11TH ADDITION); AND SITE PLAN REVIEW TO CONSTRUCT A 19,909 SQUARE FOOT LIQUOR STORE ON PROPERTY ZONED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD). APPLICANT/OWNER: VENTURE PASS PARTNERS, LLC/NORTHCOTT COMPANY. Mayor Laufenburger: May we have a staff report please. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. Again Chanhassen Specialty th Retail, which we know as Total Wine did appear before the Planning Commission on July 7. Again we did talk about some issues regarding liquor but, as I advised the Chairman their job was to talk about the site itself which is what this review is so our charge here is to look at the site plan. Does it meet the ordinances in place and so we’ve recommended, given you a recommendation on that and I’ll go through that. Now again Venture Pass Partners and the developer, underlying developer Northcott. So again we know where it is. Located in Villages on the Pond. Again it was graded out for an office building. Office park. It does have water. It does hold water the rain events but you can see the Village on the Pond is actually in this area here so. Did I state that the Planning Commission voted 6-0 to recommend approval. I don’t know if I, sorry. Mayor Laufenburger: I don’t know if you did but it was in the packet so we’re, council’s aware of that. Kate Aanenson: I’ll get in the right zone here. So I just want to give you a little bit of history of Villages on the Ponds. We had our few snippets here and there trying to put the whole thing together. At the time really the impetus, as we talked about this, was St. Hubert’s Church. St. Hubert’s Church was looking for another location and didn’t have the cash on hand to buy what they believed was the appropriate square footage so they also, the underlying developers at that 84 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 time also wanted to provide additional commercial, which was really controversial at the time to move some commercial across the street. Vernelle can testify to that. So we worked to try to achieve mutual goals. One of the other goals was for it to kind of have housing in this area and also to provide some additional in close proximity office industrial. Again during those hearings they were very similar to what happened tonight. A lot of feelings that this is not a good decision to move commercial across the street. Some people in the surrounding neighborhoods actually chose to move because they didn’t feel it was a good idea but St. Hubert’s went in. They were the lead group that went in so we really saw this as the village because you had the cultural element there with the church and the community gathering place. We also saw it as an opportunity for the extension, kind of they have the Main Street on there for other opportunities and so we put together the shared parking. So this is the time of new urbanism. We’ll go back in 1995 where we have vertical/horizontal mix so we actually had anticipated kind of the quaint, what you would see maybe in Wayzata and Excelsior. Where you had individual smaller stores and to do that as was stated earlier we said no single user could be bigger than 20,000 square feet and that was to make sure we captured that more boutique type feel. So there is shared parking. One of the things that came out of this is, they wanted on street parking. At that time our engineering department said it will not have on street parking on public streets and so the developer came back and said okay we’ll make them all private, except for the one public through street that is there today. So that’s a brief history of it. A little bit further I’ll talk a little bit more about some of those thresholds that were put in, that were studied under the environmental assessment document. So tonight you’re looking at 3 applications for review. A subdivision, a site plan and a PUD amendment for the signage. So Villages on the Ponds uses, so this was what the original concept for the uses. You can see was for the institutional. St. Hubert’s has added on. Their school added on for the institutional. That was again anticipated, oh we’re missing a zero there. 100,000. 134,000 so it’s bigger than that. The residential uses were kind of right in what imagined there. And going back to Presbyterian Homes we hadn’t anticipated Presbyterian Homes. That’s really probably one of the true ones that we envisioned at the time with the new urbanism project where you have commercial underneath but the difference there is that we ended up with a senior housing which is a little bit different kind of captive audience and disposable income that we thought would be there. You know I think the original was that would be all different types of housing so that was a little bit different as far as some of the, we looked at parking. We talked about that. Seniors don’t have, not a lot of those, not all the seniors in there have cars or parking needs so that freed up some of the parking in that development itself and then the commercial office, so we still have another 92,500 square feet for commercial or office opportunities there so we haven’t maxed out the development which is the point I was trying to make before. I apologize that that chart wasn’t that clear. So these are just to give you an idea of some of the uses that are out there and architectural style. So this is, is a PUD and in that PUD we are very prescriptive on some of the things that went in here and that was architecture to be different. To call out types of materials which we hadn’t done in the past and then also the sign package was a lot different. Again when we originally put this together we thought there’d be cute little signs that would be hanging out facing the street and as it turned out over time, as we’ve talked about, as the market changed you had to respond to some of that so when AmericInn went in right away that was a taller sign. That area was given more height than some of the signage but you can look at Houlihan’s and Culver’s. When Culver’s went in we recommended, the planning staff recommended against drive thru’s. We didn’t want this. We wanted it to be walkable and at that time the City Council disagreed and supported the drive 85 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 thru and so there has been things in there that have changed over time. You know one of the things we always saw as a key component was a delicatessen. Those sort of things. More boutique but as it ended up Lakewinds, which is a great component to having a grocery store in walking proximity of some of that. Or like we talk about two trips. You maybe go to church or drop your kids off at school or swimming lessons. You can pick up some groceries within that proximity. And then we’ve got Lake Susan Apartments which is across the street. They also do, we talk about that with the pedestrian access. Lake Susan Apartments was again one of the early ones to come in here and that again allowed built in consumers to participate in some of the activity over there. With this PUD we also took a significant amount of green space on the southern end that wasn’t developable. Originally I think they wanted to do some sort of dock boating sort of things but we kept that as natural preserve area so the hard cover is able to maximize more because we preserved under the PUD we balanced that out so that was some of the framework issues as we put this together. So some of the uses we have in there weren’t on our radar. You know Foss School was our first prototype that was outside of an inside a shopping mall. It’s been a great component to the center and now you can see we’ve got the village shops that are underway and we talked about those earlier. Davanni’s and who am I missing there? Todd Gerhardt: Hurricane Grill. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. So kind of the history and you can see the different types of architectural application there so this again we had restricted the amount of EIFS and the like. So here’s the overall parking. I want to show you that because that’s come up time and time again so required 1,631 and then provided 1,712. Now to be clear are there times that some of the restaurants it’s crowded but they can overflow and that’s how it was set up. That was always part of the original plan is that there’s going to be ebbs and flows in uses. It’s really not unlike what we have at the Legion and Park Nicollet. The Legion’s going to have bigger parties at night, on the weekends and they use part of Park Nicollet’s so it’s that sharing. That group sharing and again that’s all managed as a part of the HOA. If there’s questions on any of these as I’m zipping along. Mayor Laufenburger: By the way Kate, your reference to Park Nicollet and American Legion, somebody should probably remind Park Nicollet of that because there are times that I’ve seen them with people patrolling saying oh no, you can’t be in here. Kate Aanenson: Oh yeah. Yeah that was part of their original agreement to work together on that so. So the parking as indicated, there’s sufficient parking and there’s going to be peak times. Whether we talked about whether it’s Foss Swim School or peak times if there’s a program at the church or maybe a very large funeral that’s going to spill over and but everybody kind of knows. Like maybe there’s some spots in Summerwood. People learn to navigate that if they’re a frequent user of that area. I’m going to let the City Engineer talk a little bit about the trip generation. This is what we were referring to earlier. We had put in the first part and then we added in what the previous use was with, that got approved and that was the grocery so. Paul Oehme: Mayor, City Council members. This graph shows basically what we are projecting for trips to be generated for the proposed use on this site. So 19,900 square foot building using 86 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 our trip generations IT manual that are used nationwide for these types of uses. We’re projecting about 880 trips per day so it’s not, it’s a total day. It’s not an hourly trip generation but it’s a per day basis. What was originally envisioned for this particular site through the EAW was up to 36,000 square foot office building which would have generated 1,450 trips and down here it’s showing the peak hours. And so and I also wanted to reference the approved plan for this site for the specialty grocers. That’s shown down here and that’s basically, the specialty grocers was approved for 14,000 square foot plus an additional 8,000 retail strip that would potentially have been built later so in all that, that development piece that would have generated roughly about 1,700. 1,800 trips per day so based upon you know what we, what was already been approved. What the EAW had approved we feel that the total trips generated by Total Wine here is substantially less than what was originally approved by the PUD. 36,000 square foot business and the specialty grocer that was approved last year. Kate Aanenson: So the next thing we’ll talk about is the site plan itself. We talked a little bit about, I know there’s questions on orientation. I’ll show some renderings in a second but this would be similar to what we did with the, looking at the specialty grocery. Hiding similar to what we tried to do with Lakewinds is where you have the landscape wall where you have the single loading dock and then try to get articulation and fenestration on all sides of the building and I think the developer spoke of this. I think the first time they met with us they were a little disappointed in the fact that we rejected their plan outright and sent them back to the drawing board because we felt it didn’t meet our architectural standards out there so they regrouped and came back with some pretty significant changes and we believe is consistent with all the other projects we had out there. So again. Mayor Laufenburger: Kate. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: You made reference to Lakewinds. Is the Lakewinds building in the corner of their property? Kate Aanenson: When you say in the corner, yes. They back up to the street similar like this. Mayor Laufenburger: So they back up to the street. They also back up right to the parking for Starbucks don’t they? Kate Aanenson: Well to get into their parking lot but if you go, where their loading dock is, I mean there’s times that there’s a truck right in that area where you try to get through in there. Waiting to stack into the loading dock and their trash compactor but you can come around the public street. I can go back to that in a second. So they incorporated the EIFS and they incorporated all the articulation that we asked for and I’ll go through that in a little bit more detail but the site plan itself, this is the internal. Meets the landscaping requirements and then they’re doing the improvements on the additional parking. So I’ll go through a little bit more detail in the site plan. So this is the articulation of the building itself. The sign bands. So when we go back to the PUD again I said the original sign premise out there was that we’d have these cute perpendicular signs that would hang over and you’d walk underneath. Again thinking it’s 87 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 much more walkable. Probably a little bit more vertical but over time as we’ve looked at AmericInn and the Community Bank had asked for a variance. We looked at how the use has changed a little bit different than what we envisioned. Potentially the same mix of uses but in different formats so when the specialty grocery came in we looked at doing a sign variance. Now a variance for a sign has different criteria but we also make it specific to that and in doing that we thought we should really level the playing field for everybody else within that district and I’ll show you a little bit, there was a sign comparison in the executive summary, I’ll go through that but this is the material sample. I have the sample board here too. Again metal roof. Brick, kind of the cement masonry units. Cut face block which is similar to what we have out there already. Again awnings. Again highly articulated on all sides. And again screening so it meets the city code. We’ve got the lighting. We have wall packs and then parking lot lighting consistent with the PUD. So we’ll talk a little bit here about the PUD amendment. So originally in the Sector 1 is where we allowed some of the wall signs to go on because they had the visibility from Highway 5 but then we looked at the bank and we gave them a taller wall sign via variance. We’ve already given one so we looked at the Sector 2 because we had given it to the specialty grocery and the Planning Commission and the City Council agreed to that so when the applicant came in they said well we’d like to try for the same one. Then we did say well instead of looking at that on a case by case basis, let’s treat everybody in that sector the same. So the unique thing, attribute about this site is that it does have 4 frontages on a street, and that’s how our ordinance works. It says if you have, as this was spelled out by somebody else at the hearing earlier, if you have frontage on each street then you’re allowed a wall sign and it’s all prescriptive in the fact, it depends on your height and the width of that wall frontage and it caps because we said you can’t make your building artificially big to maximize that so there’s a cap that all businesses would be bound to. So there’s different sectors that have different requirements for signs so we’re in Sector 1 and that’s what we’re recommending. Not the variance but the PUD amendment so everybody else would be treated the same that would be in that same sector. So if you look at this, this kind of shows you where their main visibility is. They’re looking across the pond so that’s the one visibility and then to 101 so those are the ones that we said we would support them being larger. Getting the most visibility as the hotel did. And then these would be the two smaller ones. Again they all have access facing a street and that’s what our ordinance says. Again the height was restricted to no more than 20 feet so the height on their proposed sign is between 21 and 27 feet so that’s the second part of that. To go higher than one story. So this is the sign band located on the building. This is north and west elevation. And then this is again is a little bit more articulated rendering of the building itself showing, you know we require pitched roofs in this PUD and so you can see there’s different interpretations of that so this does meet that requirement. It’s a parapet type pitch and then the pitched element up here. So I was asked to do a comparison of all the other liquor stores and then I also wanted to compare apples to apples and show what else we had in Villages on the Ponds so if you look at Haskell’s, they could have put in, they have one frontage and that’s frontage on Highway 5. So they were allowed 164 square feet. They used 85.5 and that has to do a factor with the size of the building or if they would have created you know a taller building to make that happen so they didn’t capitalize that so they have two signs so there must be one over the door on the other side and then Cheers same thing. They could have had 194. Went with 89. Lunds and Byerly’s just came in for a variance because as you know they just put the two names together and changed their logo and so cumulatively they have, so it’s hard for me to break it down because they came in cumulatively but they also did receive a variance on that. 88 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Then the Century Wine could have gone to 91 to 150. They came in at 62. That’s the BN’s the underlying district and they have 3 signs on 3 different elevations. So that’s the one that’s located north of Highway 5. And then 7 and 41, the liquor store up there. There’s 2 signs on the building. East elevation is 72 and the north elevation is 31 so again they could have gone up to 160. Now that was already an existing building that they went into so that architecture was already set in place. Mayor Laufenburger: Have they, that on 7 and 41, they are on the corner. They’re on the east end of that strip aren’t they? Kate Aanenson: (yes). Mayor Laufenburger: Is there room for anybody else to be building next to them? Kate Aanenson: Well we’ve got 2 pads that are going to go in and that’s closer to the 41 side. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay but they’re not part of that, they’re not part of the building. Kate Aanenson: No, they’re separate. Separate parcel, yep. Two lots on there. And then Vintage, again we talked about. This is the Kraus-Anderson one. That’s in the BN district and they have signs on both east and west sides and again they could have gone to 180. Again a lot of it has to do with the architecture and how you plan for that. Same with MGM, 139 so Total Wine goes from 168 to 213. Again it’s capped at 5 percent of your wall space. Now just for comparison I pulled up what we did because you know we had a lot of discussion on the Children’s Learning Center and the 50 foot high height and the neon they were trying to use to capture so they’re at, their signs which say After School, Preschool, they were, they’re located at 22 to 32 feet in height and they’re also 168 square feet. So what I’m trying to say is that it really, there’s a nexus there between building scale and if you go into an existing building that’s already pre-set for you as opposed to building where you can accommodate what you want to on your sign package so again our rational basis for was that the fact that we’d given it to the grocer that we felt like, instead of doing it via a variance that would be more fair for everybody else and that could capture that same opportunity for a future building to do that and we already had given the variance to the bank. So looking at those, kind of what, you know comparing what’s in that PUD would be the AmericInn at 195. Community Bank could have gotten 200. They came in at 108 and then Lakewinds, they could have gone to 179 and 60. Now within the sign ordinance itself you’re allowed to put a graphic in there so every sign’s different in the fact that how many words they have. You know like we know Lunds and Byerlys need a variance because they said now we’re, they even dropped the apostrophe to make it work so, that’s what they told us to make it work in other cities so there’s just different ways that people approach the sign so it’s hard for me to say, you know when the question was asked, they’re all a little bit different. Have different needs so any questions on that? Mayor Laufenburger: So just to restate Kate, the signage that’s being recommended for approval. I know you call it a PUD amendment but the signage that’s being recommended for approval for Total Wine is consistent with the signage that was approved for the specialty grocer which is not going in there. 89 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Kate Aanenson: Correct. And it wasn’t like we encouraged them to do it. We just said if they’re going to apply for a variance, which they wanted to do because they applied before, and they said why wouldn’t we apply again? We said we think the correct route is to really to level the playing field for everybody else and again this is a different sector so our amendment is to allow it to go higher than 20 feet and would be Sector 2 that would be now, the PUD amendment would be fore. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: So the plat, so this is one outlot and to have a building lot you must plat it so this would be creating Lot 1, Block 1. Outlot A is the private street that would be under the association. Now in our staff report we talked about preliminary and final. I know there’s been some suggestion about potentially doing a traffic report so if you are going to move in the direction doing a traffic report then my recommendation would be that you just approve preliminary at this time and if you added a condition to do the traffic study then typically what we’d do, we’d review that unless there was a problem then we would, we would do a, put that on consent with a staff report saying how they had met or addressed that. Mayor Laufenburger: But if we did that Kate, if we approved preliminary subject to traffic or successful traffic study, then it automatically will come back to the council. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: Even if it’s on the consent agenda but it will be, it will come back for review. Kate Aanenson: Right exactly but the report would be available for anybody to look at, absolutely. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Yep, so with that I’d be happy to entertain any questions you have but we are recommending approval. Again then just the question there is whether you added the final plat and wanted to add a condition on a traffic study. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is there any questions from council of staff? Councilman McDonald: I guess I’ve got a question. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Okay I, explain to me why we need to do a traffic study. We’ve gone through the thing with the specialty grocery store and we looked at the numbers there. We did the study when the original platting was done and you look for much higher densities at that point as far as traffic. What is this going to tell us exactly? They’re private roads inside of there 90 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 so we’re not going to say you’ve got to widen your streets or anything such as that. The city road that goes through there, that’s not going to change either. What are we going to get out of this study and who pays for it? Paul Oehme: Mayor, City Council. Councilman McDonald. So I think it would give maybe some folks a level of reassurance that the EAW that was drafted and some of the assumptions in traffic numbers that we put together are validated. We’d look at you know intersection, level of services. We’d look at intersections on maybe Highway 101 and Great Plains and look at the intersections at Highway 5. If there’s any impacts. Basically looking at all the intersections in and out of the development and see if we can find, if there’s a level of breakdown or if there’s some other improvements that need to be made to accommodate this development but that was the things that we’d be looking for so. The private streets I want to, they kind of operate as a parking lot right now with the narrowness. There’s parking inside the, on the streets themselves so they’re, you know if we look at level of services for this development they are going to show a low, low level of service because the traffic is slowing and that’s how the development was built and how it was approved so I don’t think it’s going to show that there’s any significant draw below what the level of service in the EAW shows but it’s just going to validate it I think is where, and give some folks a better level of understanding or confidence that the whole development’s not just going to implode with the amount of traffic that potentially would be generated by this development. Councilman McDonald: Okay and who typically pays for that? Paul Oehme: The developer. And we would lead the project. We’d probably get 3 or 4 quotes from traffic engineers that we’ve worked with in the past and then work out an agreement with the developer for them to pay for it. Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you. Kate Aanenson: To kind of piggy back on that. I think one of the things that came up on the grocers is because this is the through street, making sure that it was clearly marked that that would be route for deliveries. That they stay, you know how things go through there. You know just controlling those speeds and that goes to kind of the traffic report. They were concerned about people, other people going, you know cutting through on those smaller roads but again that really is how it was designed to do traffic calming. By having cars parked in the street so you really have to slow down and pay attention so we don’t want to say that if you’re on the public street that you. Mayor Laufenburger: That you can speed. Kate Aanenson: That you can do whatever you want, right. So I think just some of those other techniques that we can look at. We talked about some other signage or control points that may assist in some of that. Or crosswalks for better visualization of intersections so. Mayor Laufenburger: Did you have a follow up question? 91 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilman McDonald: I think that when you mentioned the crosswalks and everything, that’s one of the things that we would point out if there’s a need for that based upon perceived pedestrian traffic and such. Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: But make it clear, that was one of the desires for Villages on the Ponds was pedestrian traffic right? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, okay. Any other questions for staff? Council members. Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan, go ahead. Councilwoman Ryan: It’s not as much a question but an answer to Councilman McDonald because I believe I was one that was bringing up the traffic issues. You know the reason why I think traffic studies are often done and we refer, we’re waiting for the traffic study for the potential development on Lyman and 212 to see if the, that location where the proposed development is going to go can handle the volume of cars and I still come back to this study was done 20 years ago and we, every proposal, or you know these proposals or I’ve gone to the City to ask about crosswalks or stop signs and there has to be a traffic study done in order to make those things move forward. And so the request to have a traffic study is because I still do not believe that this is the right location for Total Wine and I would like to see evidence to show me, and I would you know feel a little more comfortable. I still don’t necessarily know if I, it still doesn’t seem like a fit to me in that location because of the regional nature of Total Wine’s business but it’s a concern and whether or not even the city that comes back to us and staff has a report that says yes, the traffic patterns are great. You know they’re, we live it and we drive it and so we know what we experience when we’re in there and it’s, it’s not a good driving situation as it is today and yet we’re basing this proposal and this information on a study that was done 20 years ago which was a very different Chanhassen and the region, or the trade area as it’s referred to was a very much different situation so that is why I think a traffic study is important because we always do them and I think we need to be consistent and I think it’s important to have that information to move forward. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme can you answer this question for me? When the PUD was originally, application was made for this were there industry standards or tables or calculators or something that you used to predict trips? Is that how you did that? Paul Oehme: That’s correct so the ITE manual. Mayor Laufenburger: What does ITE stand for? Paul Oehme: Institute of Transportation Engineers. 92 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so this is a document that engineers, far smarter than me, use to predict traffic patterns. Traffic movement, things like that. Paul Oehme: Correct. So what they do, they look at retail or specific kinds of commercial applications and they actually go out and measure and quantify how much traffic those are. Mayor Laufenburger: Banks are different than restaurants. Paul Oehme: Exactly so they have numbers for each of those based upon the square footage and what type of use it has. So that’s the numbers that we base our estimates on is what the ITE manual generates or has calculated and estimated for those type of uses. Mayor Laufenburger: How long has that manual been in operation? Since cars began? Paul Oehme: Longer than I’ve been around so. Mayor Laufenburger: Well that’s not very long. Okay, so let’s bring this forward to 2015. 2015, do we still use that ITE manual? Paul Oehme: Yes we do and it gets updated every so often as well as new information becomes available so. Mayor Laufenburger: And new information would become available in the form of how consumer behavior changes at banks or at, I mean I’m sure banks don’t get nearly the traffic today that they got 20 years ago right? Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Laufenburger: And I don’t know, maybe coffee shops get much more today than they did so this manual that gets updated have you applied the new manual to some of these stores? Paul Oehme: We’re just using the latest. Mayor Laufenburger: You’re using the latest predictor. Paul Oehme: The latest version. Mayor Laufenburger: The latest version available to you from these International Traffic Engineering organizations. Paul Oehme: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: And what does that current manual say about traffic, trips and yeah. Trips in a specialty wine shop today, what does it tell you? 93 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Paul Oehme: So the Total Wine is the green line on the power point here. So using the ITE manual the 814 is your specialty retail grocery or that fits this category so it tells you that based upon 19,900 square foot building, you’re going to generate about 824 or 820 trips per day from that use so it’s I don’t know, it’s probably 24 trips per day per square foot or there abouts. Mayor Laufenburger: So if I read this correctly in 1996, the 1996 PUD, what does GLA stand for Kate? 36,000. Kate Aanenson: Gross leasable area. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, gross leasable area. For 36,300 which was the amount of gross leasable area predicted back in 1996 the ITE manual said you’re going to get 1,450 trips per day, correct? Paul Oehme: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: And today what you’re saying that manual or the current version of that manual is saying that 19,900 square feet of Total Wine and More is going to create 820 trips per day. Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so where’s that 36,300 GLA? Where is that located? Is that located beyond the current plot? Kate Aanenson: Well I can address that. Mayor Laufenburger: Please. Kate Aanenson: So that would have been again the shape of all the uses that were in there were under that by 92,000. Mayor Laufenburger: All of the uses in the piece of property that’s going to be called Lot 1, Block 1? Kate Aanenson: No. All of the uses in the PUD. So we have those different sectors. So the retail is different than was originally studied. It’s less intense so we were anticipating another 92. There is some additional sites that could be built on but it’s not built to the capacity that we studied. It’s under that capacity. Mayor Laufenburger: What’s the, if you take Total Wine. Take that 19,900 square foot out of that gross leasable area, how much square footage is over there now? Is in place in the Pond right now? Kate Aanenson: Well we had a different user there and I can’t remember, so that we had the, as we talked about, we had underground parking with a hotel on the top. 94 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Vernelle Clayton: Extended Stay hotel. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Do you know how many square feet? Vernelle Clayton: And they had conference room… Kate Aanenson: Do you know what the total square footage was? Vernelle Clayton: It was 26,000 for the footprint times 3. Kate Aanenson: Times 3 so it had 3 stories at 26,000 so it had a conference center and the like so yes, it was more intense. Again that’s what I’m saying the original concept would have been this site would have been more vertical. Mayor Laufenburger: So we’re replacing what was thought in 1996 was going to be a 78,000 square foot multi-level with a single level, 19,900 square feet and we’re hearing from Mr. Oehme that the traffic, or the trips that would have been generated before were 1,450 and now the predictor is 820. Kate Aanenson: I would say that a little bit differently in the fact that we studied the total office and commercial under one scenario. We didn’t know about the hotel. That came in much later but made certain assumptions about institutional uses. Residential uses. You know we predicted there would be 323 and we missed by 1 so. Todd Gerhardt: First come first served. Kate Aanenson: So anyway so the office and commercial, again we made an anticipation there’d be 291,000 gross square feet of commercial retail so we didn’t specifically there. We said overall this is where it would be and as things took shape we always measure what is the total under that environmental document, what’s the total we anticipated for that so we didn’t go over that because the trip generation was the driving force of what uses could go in there. That was always our measuring stick so what I’m saying is that we’re under that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: And that other project would have been closer to the max. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilman Campion, you have any comment or question? Councilman Campion: Yeah just a follow up question for Mr. Oehme. So I get the tables and the manuals suggest that for a retail store of this type, of this size it predicts this but would an updated EAW take into consideration extra factors such as adjacent businesses that may be new as well as the flow, the flow rate of the major crossroads? 95 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Paul Oehme: Yeah absolutely Mayor, City Council members. So what we would do for a traffic study is actually look at exactly what’s built out there and look at the traffic going in and out of the development. We’d look at the uses that are going to be going in there. The two restaurants obviously we’re going to estimate those and then add to that potentially the Total Wine as well so we look at the base. What we see out there today for the traffic and then add the new development that’s potentially out there and projected in the future as well so we’re looking at, looking at a lot of factors when we put the traffic data together and find out if we have a problem with you know access or egress or pedestrian movements and those type of things. Councilman Campion: So is that ITE manual, is that more a rough approximately or a starting point to do then a more detailed analysis? Paul Oehme: Well it’s, well the more analysis, the more detailed analysis actually goes out in field and when we generate, when you look at actually the trips that are coming in and out of the development so that’s, you know what we’re showing here is just the estimated trips generated by the new development that would be going in there so we’d look at exactly what the trips are today in the development and add to that the new trips generated by the proposed. Mayor Laufenburger: The predicted or the estimated. Paul Oehme: The estimated so and then we look at the intersections and potentially what back up’s there would be. Kate Aanenson: Peak hours. Paul Oehme: Peak hours and those type of things so. Councilman Campion: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: You indicated Kate historically the developer pays for that. Paul what’s a traffic study on this cost? Paul Oehme: This one is a little bit higher intense than most of them that we have seen so basically we’d have to look at every intersection in and out of the development so there’s 2 on 101. Great Plains we’d look at. We’d have to look at Highway 5 and Great Plains. 101 and. Mayor Laufenburger: Lake Drive East? Paul Oehme: Lake Drive East, yep. This intersection over here too so then we always look at the internal intersections as well. How they function so there’s a lot of existing data or background data that we have to capture to make sure that we’re generating a report that we look at the entire impacts not just for the development but for the public infrastructure and public streets in and around the development. Mayor Laufenburger: I think the happiest days in Market Square are when that parking lot is just jammed packed full and the natural behavior, the natural consumer behavior that kids in is slow 96 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 down. That’s the most common in the winter I think. Of course you’ve got 2 big holidays, Thanksgiving and Christmas. People are, they wish what? Yeah they wish they had a plane probably or a Smart car, something like that. Maybe that’s what we need is a Smart car dealership. Do you know anything about that? Todd Gerhardt: We can get you a bike though. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan did you have any other questions or comments about that? Councilwoman Ryan: I have another comment. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Councilwoman Ryan: I find it interesting that nobody has ever heard of the ITE manual before since it’s. Mayor Laufenburger: Oh wait, that’s not true. That’s not true. Councilman McDonald: That’s not why, no. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s not true and I would also say that your comment earlier about you’re the one that raised the question on traffic. You were the one that spoke about it but I think it was on other people’s minds as well. The ITE manual has been used and I’ve seen reference to the ITE manual many, many times. The question that I asked of Mr. Oehme wasn’t for my own benefit. It was really for the benefit of those people that are watching at home and also other people that may not know about it so that’s a manual that is repeatedly used by Paul or by Carver County or by anybody. It’s a predictor. You know it’s what we use to plan for movement around parks. Around. Councilman McDonald: We used it at Walmart. Mayor Laufenburger: Walmart, absolutely. Councilman McDonald: Powers intersection. Councilwoman Ryan: So but why is it being used in this case and when we talk about the regional mall and the, and Lyman or at, and that they had done a, you know, we’re asking them to do an AUAR. Kate Aanenson: Yes, I can answer that question because when we did that AUAR 40 or more acres of that was guided low density residential so when the Comprehensive Plan we up zoned all that property to regional commercial so the traffic study for that was out of date because we didn’t, we accommodated residential growth and not industrial so what I was trying to point out here is we did accommodate that and we’re under. On the other project we up zoned it and we 97 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 hadn’t accommodated for it so we were going to overshoot that and we needed to study what that was. Councilwoman Ryan: And same for the Children’s Learning Center. Because we got a traffic report for that and traffic. Kate Aanenson: Yes and we changed the zoning on that too. This one we didn’t change the zoning so it was consistent but we changed that from up zoned it and that’s, we looked at peak hours because that came up as an issue with the apartment project too. They said that that was, we did a traffic study for the apartment and then part of our issue there was to show that there’s going to be peak hours will probably be more impactful than the apartment building so we wanted to show what those turn movements would be when you have all the parents coming at the same time to drop their kids off. Councilwoman Ryan: Right, I just have not seen a study or a PUD where we haven’t referenced traffic and move, you know traffic patterns and movements and I just, I don’t understand that. Mayor Laufenburger: Well Councilwoman Ryan I think that whenever we ask city staff to answer a question about predicting either behavior, consumer behavior. The behavior of water. The behavior of anything, we know that the city staff whether it’s Mr. Oehme or whether it’s anybody else, they’re going to use the tools of their trade which are foreign to us but we ask them to come back with a substantiation of why they believe this or why they feel like they can predict this and in many cases we end up asking them to turn into a little bit of an educator and tell us why is it that that’s what you’re using as a predictor or why is it that you think that 16 inches of pipe is enough instead of you know 24 inches of pipe. That’s what city staff does for us so whether you call it a traffic study or a predicted behavior on consumer behavior driving cars and trucks, it’s all the same thing. It means answer this question for us because we don’t know the answer to the question. That’s what it is for me. Councilman McDonald: Well and hence that was my question of why we’re doing this but what I’m willing to accept is that okay if we need to relook at some of these intersections then fine, let’s go ahead and spend the money and get the answers. Otherwise what’s going to change? That’s why I asked the question because I don’t think anything is going to change. I mean based upon the years and the studies that went into it in the beginning, that’s why I questioned it so it’s, I have experience in there too and I understand how it works but that’s why you ask the question of staff and that’s why you look at these reports and that’s what they’re based upon. That’s all you can base them upon. So that’s yeah, in order to relook at some of the intersections, okay it’s worth it to do that. Mayor Laufenburger: We’ll come back to that if you’d like. Any other questions of staff? Dave Carlin: I know it’s not a public hearing… Mayor Laufenburger: We may come to you on that Dave but just hold off on a second. Mr. Oehme can you explain to me how the traffic will move into and out of the property. Or Kate, one of you. 98 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Paul Oehme: The Total Wine? Mayor Laufenburger: The Total Wine property, yeah. Just give me an idea, a visual of how traffic’s going to move into and out of. Paul Oehme: Do you want on the site or through the development? Mayor Laufenburger: Well I assume that they’re going to come into the development either off 101 or they’re going to come off 5 but when they, when they see well I want to go Total Wine what entrances are we going to give them to enter into the parking lot? Kate Aanenson: Yeah they can come in. Mayor Laufenburger: Where are you at? Paul Oehme: Go to the site plan. Kate Aanenson: Pardon me? Mayor Laufenburger: Go to the green and white one that shows the building. Kate Aanenson: Okay this one. Mayor Laufenburger: There, perfect. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, yeah so I mean you can come in, there’s an entrance here. The main entrance here. Mayor Laufenburger: So they would come off 101 and make a left turn right into there, okay. Kate Aanenson: Yep, or they can come in on this side also on Pond Promenade. Lake Drive or Pond Promenade. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so that’s two. Alright. How about, how about delivery vehicles, how are they going to get in? Kate Aanenson: I believe they’re coming in the same direction and then they’re backing in. Paul Oehme: Right. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Laufenburger: So they’re coming in off of Lake Drive? Kate Aanenson: Or they could come in this way too. 99 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Mayor Laufenburger: And then come up here and then back in, okay. Okay. And how many parking places are in there? Is it 194? 164? Paul Oehme: 84 within the parking lot. Mayor Laufenburger: 184? Paul Oehme: 84 in the site itself and then another 74 on street so we’re counting the parking stalls on Promenade here. All these stalls are going to be created. All these stalls are going to be created as well. Kate Aanenson: So they’re exceeding their requirements. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Carlin you’re the applicant for this, did you want to address the council? Dave Carlin: I do and thank you again. So Dave Carlin, Venture Pass Partners again and I did want to introduce Randy Rauwerdink and Jim Ottenstein who are also with the development company and I, you know just in terms of the traffic. We don’t have an issue with the cost of a traffic study. You know our circumstances here was this time last fall we were trying to get in the ground with Trader Joe’s. We retooled this project as Total Wine. You know it’s Minnesota so we’re trying… Mayor Laufenburger: What I’m hearing you say is you don’t want to, you don’t want to delay this. Dave Carlin: Yeah that’s my concern is you know and we’ve got a great relationship with staff and when you hear about you know we’ve got to come up with a scope of project. We have to get 3 bids. Right now the engineers and consultants are extremely busy. If we’ve got to drop meters out on the, I mean you know it does two things for us. It potentially delays the project but it also puts us in a situation where if there’s still some uncertainty you know relative to our ability to proceed with the project it’s really hard to do the final construction drawings and the things we need with the general contractor to be in a position to start the project this fall and then we get into next year we’ve got the same thing you hear with all the major projects. You’ve got cost creep in terms of cost but we also have issues with our land seller so I mean it puts us into a difficult position. We had, I mean with staff and also with Vernelle independent of any approval we had already initiated some discussions about some way finding and some things that we would be doing you know internally to make sure that the traffic functioned and you know again, this is an association. It’s a little different than just a scattered bunch of property owners. There’s an association that’s already in place. This is a project that was approved. I feel like our traffic generators are so far below the threshold and it almost just seems you know a little bit, I won’t say arbitrary but the last project in was fine you know and then all of a sudden we’re at the point where we need to revisit everything that happened in the last 20 years. One of the benefits of stepping into an existing project that had an EAW, that you had infrastructure that was created based on certain assumptions and you would think as long as you were well inside of those 100 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 certain assumptions that you can proceed and I just get nervous about the, you know the uncertainty of the project if there’s still a pretty broad right to approve or disapprove of a traffic study and you know frankly we’re, you know how we would deal with impacts if somebody said you know 2 intersections down needed some work. Mayor Laufenburger: Gotch ya. Thank you Mr. Carlin. Any other questions from council? Can you put that motion back up please? So this is the time where I invite either comment or motion. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I will make a motion. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’m going to make a motion that City Council approves a preliminary th plat and final plat for Villages on the Ponds 11 Addition, a site plan for Chanhassen specialty retail, a planned unit development amendment to the sign criteria subject to the conditions of the staff report and adopts the Findings of Fact. Mayor Laufenburger: So the motion reads exactly as the recommendation from city staff, is that correct Councilwoman Tjornhom? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, we have a motion. Is there a second? Councilman McDonald: I’ll second but I have a question. Mayor Laufenburger: After you second it I’ll open it for discussion. Councilman McDonald: Second. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Councilman McDonald. We have a valid motion and a second, is there any discussion? Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I have a question. Okay the way that this is set up then, if I’m correct originally staff did not want a traffic study so that would say that there’s not going to be one based upon this motion, is that correct? Mayor Laufenburger: Is the Findings of Fact Kate, does it include any reference to a traffic study? Kate Aanenson: No. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so you are correct Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Okay, that’s all I wanted to know. Thank you. 101 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Councilwoman Tjornhom: May I make a comment on that? Mayor Laufenburger: Yes you can. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I realize that Councilman McDonald and that’s because I don’t think there needs to be a traffic study. I think that this development was built out for the purpose of traffic being in it and it’s obviously right now operating way below capacity and this new building that’s coming into it and the business will be operating way below capacity of a hotel and retail center and so I believe it is taking up the developer’s time and money and it’s stopping the progress of the project that we, most of us I believe was a good thing for Chanhassen. Councilman McDonald: Okay and if I could just say I agree with you and that’s why I wanted to make sure what was in there. What I was voting for because yeah I too, as I said earlier, I was not that convinced about the traffic study but if it made everybody feel better, fine but I don’t think we should hold up development. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Any other discussion? Councilwoman Ryan did you want to make a comment? Councilwoman Ryan: Yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Sure, go ahead. Councilwoman Ryan: And this just refer, and I spoke to it earlier in the night but the Findings of Fact, letter (f) where it talks about traffic generation and it said it was within the capabilities of the streets serving the property and again I come back to I just, I don’t agree that this location can accommodate this business. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Anybody, any other discussion? Councilman Campion: I guess my commentary here is I would support a traffic study to look at the intersections. I think that that could potentially improve this development if you know if that study looked at the development as it has grown over the years and can potentially make it an even better development. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Any further discussion? There being none I’m going to ask for a vote. Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the Chanhassen th City Council approve the preliminary and final plat for Villages on the Ponds 11 Addition; site plan for Chanhassen Specialty Retail as shown in plans dated Received June 18, 2015, and Planned Unit Development Amendment to the sign criteria subject to the following conditions and adopts the Findings of Fact and Recommendation: 102 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 SUBDIVISION Park 1.Full park fees in lieu of additional parkland dedication and/or trail construction shall be collected as a condition of approval for the proposed plat of Lot 1, Block 1, Villages on the th Ponds 11 Addition. The park fees will be collected in full at the rate in force upon final plat submission and approval. Based upon the current commercial park fee rate of $12,500 per acre, the total park fees would be $33,875. Engineering 1.The plat must be revised to include a 10-foot wide perimeter drainage and utility easement on Lot 1, Block 1. 2.The fees collected with the final plat are: Surface Water Management fee, Park Dedication fee, and GIS fee ($25 for the plat + $10/parcel). 3.City water (WAC), city sewer (SAC) and Metropolitan Council sewer (Metro SAC) fees will be collected with the building permit and will be calculated based on the uses within the building. Water Resources 1.An estimated $54,610.02 in storm water utility connection charges shall be due at final plat. 2.The property owner shall execute and record against the property a maintenance agreement in a format provided by the city for the pervious pavement, underground filtration, sump manholes and Contech Jellyfish™ Filter. 3.The applicant shall apply for and procure all other necessary permits. SITE PLAN Engineering 1.Based on the proposed grading on the north side of site the grading plan may require some revisions in order to maintain drainage from the existing improvements to the north. Building 1.The buildings are required to have automatic fire extinguishing systems. 2.Building plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of Minnesota. 103 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 3.Detailed occupancy-related requirements will be addressed when complete building plans are submitted. 4.Provide a 1:200 scale drawing of subdivision. 5.The owner and/or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures. Fire Marshal 1.Provide a three-foot clear space around fire hydrants. 2.Yellow-painted curb and “No Parking Fire Lane” signs will be required. Applicant shall contact Fire Marshal for specific locations. 3.No P.I.V. (post indicator valve) will be required. Natural Resource Specialist 1.The interior width of all islands must be a minimum of 10 feet. 2.A total of 13 trees must be planted within the vehicular use area. Planning: 1.The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the City and provide the necessary security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping. 2.The street/sidewalk lights along Main Street have to be preserved and operational when the site construction is completed. 3.Condition has been met. 4.The light poles may not exceed 20 feet in height. 5.All Wall Packs (WPI) shall be replaced with Wall Packs (WP2). Water Resources 1.The Surface Water Pollution Prevention Plan with all elements required by the NPDES Construction Permit shall be prepared and supplied to the city for approval prior to any earth- disturbing activities. 2.Proof of the NPDES Construction Permit having been procured by the applicant shall be supplied to the city prior to any earth-disturbing activities. 104 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 3.A dewatering plan, specific to the existing pond, shall be prepared and submitted to the city for review and approval prior to any earth-disturbing activities. 4.Areas immediately tributary to the pervious pavement, including disturbed areas behind the back of curb, must be stabilized within 24 hours of construction of the pervious pavement areas. PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT The City Council approve the Planned Unit Development amendment in the attached ordinance for Villages on the Ponds to allow signs to be placed higher than 20 feet within Sector I, and for the size of letters to be increased to 48 inches along the west and north elevations as shown (amendments are shown in bold), belowand including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation: Wall Signs 1.The location of letters and logos shall be restricted to the approved building sign bands, the s I and tops of which shall not extend greater than 20 feet above the ground. In Sector II, sign height may be increase based on the criteria that the signage is compatible with and complementary to the building architecture and design. The letters and logos shall be except along the north and west elevations for restricted to a maximum of 30 inches in height buildings within sectors I and II. These letters may be increased to 48 inches . All individual letters and logos comprising each sign shall be constructed of wood, metal, or translucent facing. 2.If illuminated, individual dimensional letters and logos comprising each sign may be any of the following: a. Exposed neon/fiber optic, b. Open channel with exposed neon, c. Channel Letters with acrylic facing, d. Reverse channel letters (halo lighted), or e. Externally illuminated by separate lighting source. 3.Tenant signage shall consist of store identification only. Copy is restricted to the tenant’s proper name and major product or service offered. Corporate logos, emblems and similar identifying devices are permitted provided they are confined within the signage band and do not occupy more than 15% of the sign area unless the logo is the sign. 4.s I and Within Sector II, architecturally, building-integrated panel tenant/logo sign may be permitted based on criteria that the signage is compatible with and complementary to the 105 Chanhassen City Council – July 27, 2015 Architectural elements specifically created to increase building design and architecture. signage height are prohibited. 5. Backlit awnings are prohibited. All voted in favor except for Councilwoman Ryan and Councilman Campion who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 2. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay that motion carries 3-2. The council recommendation or the staff recommendation is approved. Thank you very much for your patience folks. We have a couple more items on our agenda. We can go through these pretty quickly. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Todd Gerhardt: We have an update on our local street projects by our City Engineer Paul Oehme. Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, can you give us an update please? Paul Oehme: Absolutely. So we’re well into the construction season this year now so we’ve got several projects underway as you probably can attest to. One of, the biggest project, local projects that we have is the Carver Beach project so that’s a little over, or it’s about 4.8 miles worth of streets in the Carver Beach neighborhood so that project is going fine. Most of the utilities in that project area are done now. I think there’s a couple little storm sewer left on Western Drive to put in and that should be in by the end of this week here. The milling machine should be out next week. We’re going to be grinding up about a third of the streets in that neighborhood starting this week and notices went out for that last Thursday I believe for that section of road so once we grind up that street, we’re going to be using that milling as our base course and repaving that so once we get that section almost complete we’re going to go to Phase 2 and then Phase 3 so we’re moving along in that project. That one we’re a little bit behind schedule with the, because of the rain. We’re anticipating the first week in September for that base course to be put down so looking forward to getting those streets back together. The Kerber Boulevard project, again we’re a little bit behind there now just because of the last rain event that we had. The contractor did work on Saturday to replace the sanitary sewer near Powers Boulevard so we’re replacing or sub-cutting that area out and rebuilding that section of road up. Pavement section up today and through Wednesday I believe and we’re anticipating the base course, the first lift of the asphalt on Kerber Boulevard to be put down on Friday. So and then wear course would be the next week so that one’s hopefully in a little over a week’s time we should have a paved surface on Kerber Boulevard. The river crossing project, that one’s moving along very nicely now. The contractor is putting in some overtime in and really making progress on putting in the pilings for the bridge project. They’re almost done filling that gap where they found that poor soil that those 30 inch piles are almost complete. I think that should be done by the end of this week and then they’re closing the gap from our north end abutment to where those 30 inch piles are so they’re anticipating completing the pilings by the end of August here and then working on bridge work. The good news for that project is that the roundabout and 61 from 101 going down the bluff to the east side of the roundabout would, they’re anticipating opening that section of 61 with the roundabout on Friday, late after 6:00 or so after the rush hour. 106