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PRC 2015 08 25 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 25, 2015 Chairman Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Cole Kelly, Steve Scharfenberg, Brent Carron, Luke Thunberg, Jim Boettcher, Rick Echternacht, Jennifer Hougham. Lauren Dale arrived late to the meeting. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; Katie Favro, Program Specialist, Landon Rimestad, Parks and Recreation Intern; and Adam Beers, Park Superintendent APPROVAL OF AGENDA: The agenda was approved as published. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Hoffman: Just for the commissions information we would like to publicly recognize Courtney Saurer who left our employment today. She was our summer playground director and did a great job. Worked with Katie and the rest of the staff and so she leads that group for Summer Discovery Playground in each park every day and then the last 2 weeks she’s out actively engaged in the Lake Ann Adventure Camp so I was just chatting with her today. Found out it was her last day so we wished her well and just wanted to let you know that she did a nice job and may be back next year. You never know. No? Favro: Well she has a new job. Hoffman: Alright, a new job. Favro: …I told her she could come back. Hoffman: Alright, great. Thanks Katie. Kelly: Thanks Todd. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:Boettcher moved, Echternacht seconded to approve the verbatim and summary Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated July 28, 2015 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL 2016-2020 PARK & TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, (CIP). Kelly: Todd do you want to point out certain things to us at this point? Hoffman: I will. Thank you Chair Kelly, members of the commission. I’ll give you a shorten version of what I’ve provided here in the staff report. So attached you have staff’s recommendation for 2016 to 2020 park and trail acquisition and development CIP program. Capital improvement program. There’s 10 projects over that span of 5 years and so it’s not a lot of projects. Some of them are some fairly significant dollars but those 10 projects total $2,115,000. One thing you will note is that we did up the annual forecasted revenues from $200,000 to $250,000 so when you get to the graph, and I apologize your’s is not colored but you can still see from the bar codes where we’ve changed and modified that $250,000 in revenues. Annually it is the task of the Park and Recreation Commission to make a recommendation. Staff provides a recommendation. Those budget sheets based on staff’s recommendation have been submitted to Finance. Tonight is your opportunity to modify, delete or add, amend any of those recommendations before those are submitted to the Chanhassen City Council so anything that you do amend tonight or change would be submitted to Finance tomorrow and then those changes would be forwarded to City Council as a part of their CIP discussion. So you’re aware of that. I’ll give a brief update, we have some new members about the Chanhassen park system. What our system entails in basic components. Community parks. Neighborhood parks. We have park preserves. Our trail and sidewalk system and we talk about trails and sidewalks, there’s 77 miles of asphalt trails. 30 miles of concrete sidewalk. Some of those sidewalks we maintain but many of those are maintained by residents. Those are concrete sidewalks that are out in the neighborhoods and it’s their task to at least do the snow shoveling and the City would be on the hook for doing most of the asphalt. Tennis courts, I want to speak to that a little bit. You have a tennis court map as a part of our planning document. It shows the current locations for tennis courts, both city and school and then future tennis court locations. All of our tennis locations are built with the exception of 2. Those being at Bandimere Park, which is a newer recommendation with the addition of the property that we have at Bandimere Park and then Roundhouse Park has been on that park plan for quite some time. 17 years or more and I was not present but I think you heard, at least it came through in the survey and the notes that everybody provided. Thank you Jen for providing those notes and others, that it seemed like tennis was ranked fairly high and some of the folks just had been waiting all those years for their tennis court and based on the usage we’re seeing staff tends to agree that tennis courts are a base level service that are used by a variety of people of all ages. On my way to work this morning the courts here at City Center were full again with a senior group and so it’s, certainly we’ve talked about on a number of occasions tennis is not what it used to be but it is at least in our position a base level recreation service. You have an open field or a play field, tennis court, playground, picnic areas, some of those type of base level services in our community, or in community and neighborhood parks. Pickleball, again we have 6 new courts at the rec center and we really took a look at this and we debated. Should we do half and half so we do a couple of pickleball and a tennis court and really if you do that I think a lot of things in life you want to capture everything but if you try to do everything you really get nothing that’s done very well and that’s our position. That’s staff’s position is that we feel like then you really couldn’t do 2 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 pickleball lessons. You really couldn’t do tennis lessons. There’d be some just mixed use going on but if you put all tennis in and you want to play pickleball and you can put up these temporary nets if pickleball continues to grow in popularity. You stripe the lines. You put the temporary nets up. You can play pickleball on tennis courts. And then I think there is good reason to build future permanent courts at City Center Park and so we have 4 hockey rinks at City Center just next to the elementary school. Those are on school district property. They were built in the early 1970’s with some grant money and then some city money and some school money. Those were always cooped between School District, Eastern Carver County School District 112 and the City. When Eastern Carver County Schools built Chanhassen High School and their 8 tennis courts I believe down there, perhaps more at the high school, it will be on the list. They said we no longer want to maintain, own or operate those courts. They’re your’s now and so those are our courts to maintain and provide for as we see fit. You can build, leave 2 tennis courts which would be lit. Build 6 pickleball courts there. Then you would have a total of 12 pickleball courts and I believe 19 tennis courts in our community as a built out system. So that’s some thoughts about tennis, pickleball. I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have about that as you move through your conversation. Kind of another switch in at least financing or some financing thoughts centering around athletic field use. Athletic field improvements. The City Council is taking a look at a variety of things. Last night they talked about artificial turf. They talked about building new fields. 2030 is about the timeline if you looked at that where we’ll be short probably soccer fields because of the continued growth of soccer in all of our communities so they’re asking where could we build those soccer fields. There is an opportunity at the Holasek property. There’ll be future opportunities on other pieces of property to build future soccer. Should that happen? Should there be a temporary dome instead of a permanent dome? A permanent facility. A permanent fieldhouse didn’t get a lot of traction last night because it’s very hard to sell time in the summer at a permanent facility. Whereas if you take it down, that field now you’ve got an artificial turf field with a dome that’s off of it in the summer and you still use it because people are outside and it’s hard to force people inside in the summer. So there’s talk about that. And then a variety of conversations on some other things going on in the community so you know the splash pad has come up again in a different location and so I know we were shot down fairly soundly at Bandimere for a splash pad but there’s been some discussion about bringing that into City Center Park. One thing I encourage you to do when you go to the Money Magazine rankings, and so click on a 3 minute video. Chanhassen is number 7 of 10,000 to 50,000 cities. And if you look many of the communities that have moved up some rankings and that’s due to what they’re doing in their community to provide additional services to the people that live there and Chanhassen has been clicking down and so there’s some discussion about you know what are we doing? What aren’t we doing to provide for our families? For our residents. This fountain has been almost a splash pad this summer without even any amenities other than just a rock fountain. And so there’s some additional discussion about where should it be. There’s some land still available adjacent to City Center Park. We would have to have a conversation with that property owner. Should that happen? Should that be in the referendum? You can purchase that additional land. Roll out a splash pad, aquatic facility. Share some parking with the Chanhassen Elementary School and again this is up to the voters. If you put that on a referendum a lot of people say we want it, there’s many young families still in town. Many young families moving to town so there’s a variety of things that are in the conversation. The last time the City had a parks and recreation referendum was in 1997 3 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 which is 18 years ago and referendums are basically if you feel a need and you think it’s outside of what you can accomplish with your basic financing methods that you have, you put it up to a vote. There’s been many school referendums since that last 18 years for very big dollars and this would not be a huge dollar referendum but it would offer some pretty exciting amenities if people would vote yes for it. So that’s where the City Council is sitting right now. You’re going to see the full report for the athletic fields in September. You’ll talk about when, where, what you know analysis on cost benefit. What would be the biggest bang for your buck? What are the costs associated with that? What’s the total tab? And then your task in September will be to analyze that. Make any modifications and make a recommendation to the City Council which th will then they’ll receive that, your thoughts and a study on November 9 at their final, at the final time that that item will be viewed at a work session. So that’s why there’s no money for lights. There’s the $400,000 that was originally a place holder, that’s gone out of your CIP at least in staff’s recommendation. You can add that back but I think we’ve really been chasing our tail for quite some number of years on what should we do at ballfields? Should we do dugouts? Should we do lights? Should we do artificial turf? And we’ve moved some numbers around a variety of times but since we’ve last lit Lake Ann Park, we did the last 4 fields, you know we’ve been back doing some I would call intermediate improvements. Batting cages those, some wire dugouts at Lake Ann, those type of things but we could continue to spend huge chunks of cash out of the park fund to try to build these ballfields to what we think they might want to be in our future and we’ll probably never get there. So those are some thoughts. Again the commission’s task tonight is to understand that recommendation. Also talk about what ideas you have. Maybe bring up some conversations that you had out at Roundhouse Park with the neighbors and then either delete, change or approve staff’s recommendation to the City Council so they can view that in mid-September. Kelly: Thank you Todd. Questions for Todd? Boettcher: Todd when would the referendum go before the voters? Would it be in April or would it be November next year? Hoffman: Well not decided. Probably not, not decided at all. Boettcher: Okay. Hoffman: So it could be a special referendum which would be a stand alone or it could be as part of the general election. Boettcher: Okay. Hoffman: Yeah 2016 would be a good time to do it. It’s a presidential election. Kelly: Todd how many councilors were talking about referendum? Hoffman: Just the council in general so when somebody brings it up and the rest say yeah we can go for that. I’m not going to speak to you know if I think the whole council would or would 4 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 not. When, I think when the City Council brings up a topic, a councilor brings up a topic somebody else agrees with it and nobody says no we’re not going to do that then at least they’re all, at neutral if nothing else. Kelly: Todd in the, before we had the hockey rink down for $639,000 and I see we have it at $400,000. What did that $639,000 include? The parking area or the lights that go with it or? Hoffman: Yes. Chair Kelly the parking lot and the hockey rink have been split out into two different projects. Kelly: Okay and so the prices come down from what we had before? Hoffman: Nope it just the hockey rink was always the $400,000 number and then the parking lot addition is shown in a different number I believe. Kelly: It’s $200,000 and in the past I had it for $639,000 with the two together so that’s $39,000 cheaper. Hoffman: Okay. Kelly: Thank you. Scharfenberg: Todd can you speak to the Highcrest Meadows trail connector improvement and why the last time, I know you weren’t here at the last meeting but that was potentially being factored into CIP and just speak to why that is listed under street pavement management. Hoffman: Some of those improvements should have been completed as a part of that development. They were on the plans and it just wasn’t completed so that can go back to the street pavement management program so annually we do you know street improvements and so we just include that. It would be a relatively small number in that fund and it’s a good way to pay for other than taking parking dedication dollars. So you’re taking an existing improvement and modifying it. Trail improvements is really, it’s, once you maintain, once you build it, it’s no longer going to be paid for maintenance out of the park dedication fund. It’s going to be in pavement management and so what we’ve said as a community is rather than have parks and recreation work on pavement management for all time, parks and rec will build some trails but then all of our pavement streets, trails, parking lots, basketball courts, tennis courts are all going to go out of pavement management. Let the people understand asphalt and budget for it every year. Complete all those different improvements so that’s why it’s there. Scharfenberg: So the $20,000 figure was the figure that was presented to us last time relative to the domes and tapering the entrance correct? Hoffman: Correct. Scharfenberg: Okay. 5 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Hoffman: And it’s likely that that would be included with the Pioneer Pass Park improvements for next year with the pedestrian crossing. They’re trying to get that done yet this year but as a stand alone project nobody’s interested in doing that small project and we just can’t find a contractor. So they would wrap those two pedestrian improvements, Pioneer Pass crossing which includes probably a median in the middle of Pioneer Pass, Bluff Creek Drive for a pedestrian landing and then the Highcrest Meadow improvements and then whatever pavement management streets we do next year for mill and overlays, that would all get wrapped in. Then you get better bidding. Better pricing. Scharfenberg: And just so Brent I know you weren’t here last time. Have you had a chance to get feedback from the neighborhood relative to what Todd had proposed? What staff had proposed for the domes and things and is that something that they were happy with or? Carron: I talked to Mr. Beer, the gentleman that was here and that was the only one who approached me this past weekend and he just agreed that, well first he got caught off guard. He wasn’t expecting to speak so I’ll give him that and tell you guys that but no he said definitely something needs to be done there. The neighborhood still wants something done. He agreed that $20,000 was a little high and I think with the help of the street department and staff that they could probably do some whittling down if they’re going to put this in with a couple other projects so. Hoffman: Yeah that might come in for 10 grand those improvements. Carron: Yeah and that other ped ramp on the south end, we looked at that. I looked at that and that’s another item that probably could be eliminated so we don’t need 4 ped ramps all the way around there would make sense so yeah there’s avenues to whittle that down I think and still make a good product that would deter people from driving that so yep. Todd could you just expand a little bit on the Galpin trail extension on, we have $150,000 in park dedication and I think another $25,000 in the surface water just to give an update on that. Hoffman: I sure will. I sure will. So that’s a combination project with the City of Shorewood so you go to Galpin Boulevard. The city trail ends at the bottom of the hill or right near the Pheasant Hill neighborhood and then you go about another half a mile and you’re into Shorewood and so we have a small segment to build. That half mile segment and then Shorewood was going to continue it from their border all the way up to Highway 7. They bid that and then the bids were too high so they rejected all those bids and now they’re thinking about rebidding it and we just have to be there at the table with that cash to allow them, it’s their project. They’re bidding our portion with it and then whatever those bids come in at we would be paying our portion of that project. So if they rebid it and we’re at the table. If they don’t, if they decide to walk from the project we’re not going to be involved in a project. Carron: And why is there two funding sources? 6 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Hoffman: The stormwater management is for just to capture some additional dollars to help with the park fund and so there’s a variety of water issues right at the bottom of the hill that stormwater folks want to clean up and so that’s their portion of the project and then trails is the rest. Carron: Gotch ya, thanks. Scharfenberg: Just in follow up to the Roundhouse discussion that we had last time. Todd one of the questions that came up was the ability to run water for potentially for a water fountain or something out there. Is there that ability to do that out at Roundhouse or not? Do we know that? Hoffman: There’s city sewer and water just about every place in our community other than in the southern reaches and so there is that opportunity but as a practice we have not provided that service at most neighborhood parks. If there’s not a building present where we have water for bathrooms, then we really have not been running drinking fountains just because of the cost. You have to both run a water line and a sewer line and then you have to maintain it. Drain it. Start it up in the spring. Drain it in the fall so at our level of service with all these parks, we often get asked that question. Can you provide a drinking fountain? We just, I’ll send you an email we responded to about North Lotus. A new family moved in and they were at the park and everybody said it was great and the 6 or 8 year old said but no drinking fountain dad. Why don’t we have a drinking fountain and so they contacted the City Hall and we gave them the same explanation. It’s about a $30,000 project to install it and then you have to maintain it over time and some people like public drinking fountains. They get dirty. People don’t always treat them like they should and then also with the advent of all the personal sport drinks and water bottles you’ve really seen a decline in the need for drinking fountains compared to what it was 20 or 30 years ago. So yes there’s that option. We’ve just not been including in neighborhood park plans. You’ll see drinking fountains at Susan, Ann, not even Bandimere. rd Kelly: Todd a question on the hockey rink back here on your memorandum for June 23 it says a concrete surface hockey rink $473,392. Deduct $70,000 if built with bituminous pad and what’s the plan right now? To move forward with the concrete or with the bituminous. Hoffman: Bituminous. Kelly: Okay because that’s, I looked up back here it said concrete on the, yeah okay. And what are the advantages and disadvantage of the bituminous versus the concrete? Carron: Oh it’s way better. Hoffman: Cost primarily. The thought was if we put concrete in there then we’d have those pickleball courts on top of it. Those temporary pickleball courts and I just don’t think we need that. Primarily what we’re trying to provide is a hard surface that you have, you can make ice on very quickly. We’re not forecasting you’re going to see a lot of summer use on top of that surface, whether it be asphalt or concrete so similar to the asphalt rinks we have here at City Center and North Lotus, we see some summer use. We had some lacrosse camps which they 7 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 enjoyed it but it’s really there to just provide a clean uniform surface in the summer and then a surface that can readily take ice come fall and the late fall. You can make ice really fast on a flat, hard surface like asphalt. If you have gravel or turf it takes a little while longer to get that going and it just provides a clean uniform surface so asphalt is less expensive and just as viable. In fact asphalt the ice attaches to it even better. If you have smooth concrete there’s no place for the ice to attach and you’ll get buckling so it’s actually a better hard surface to make ice on. Kelly: Thank you Todd. Hougham: For Roundhouse Park from the notes from that do we have any estimates on some of those other options like the basketball court and hoops? Hoffman: Currently do not and so I’ve also asked Gabrielle Grinde to take a look at if we put double tennis is there a spot in the park for the basketball independent of that? Is there a spot for volleyball independent of that? If not then we would put basketball on the tennis like we have in a variety of other parks. South Lotus Lake Park has got basketball. North Lotus Lake Park has got basketball and the tennis and then you’re using a dual sport court system so once we receive those drawings from Gabrielle then I’ll present those to this commission. Hougham: Thank you. Kelly: What was, I’m sorry. Hougham: Oh I was going to say they seem to be okay with having the basketball on the tennis courts. Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: What would the difference in cost be if we just built a basketball court and not a tennis court? Hoffman: Much less. Kelly: Like? Hoffman: Well these half court basketball courts we can do those for under $20,000 but that’s a 50 by 50. Echternacht: You know when we were looking at Bandimere possibly the tennis and combination pickleball and we said we couldn’t put basketball hoops if we did that combo. Could we put basketball hoops on the, at the end of the hockey if we’re just going to have that asphalt surface for summer for use. Hoffman: Yeah we could take a look at that or just putting them on the tennis so you could put basketball on the tennis at Bandimere or on the hockey rink. 8 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Echternacht: Well I was thinking if we were doing tennis and pickleball combination striping, I thought I was told that we couldn’t put basketball. Hoffman: Correct because then you would have the fences but we’re not recommending that we do that dual purpose at Bandimere. We’re recommending that we do 2 pure tennis courts at Bandimere Park and then you have the option of either deciding to put basketball nets on that double tennis court or you could put basketball. The one thing nice about that is you have the tall fencing on a tennis court whereas you put it on a hockey rink you have the shorter fencing and then the balls are bouncing out constantly and you have to jump the fence to get the balls on the outside of the hockey rink. Echternacht: Okay. Scharfenberg: Todd one of the things that we talked about last time, and I don’t see that it’s at least in staff’s proposal and if you could speak to this is we thought it would be potentially necessary to put a place holder in for Arboretum trail. For money for the underpass or whatever. Do you not foresee that, that’s going to be necessary in the next 5 years and shouldn’t we be looking at putting a place holder or some funds towards that particular project? Hoffman: Right now it’s scheduled for 2019 and we don’t know enough about the cost there. There is going to be some city cost. It’s likely going to be a 2019 project and at present we just don’t know enough about so you know how much is it going to be you know $100,000? Is it going to be $10,000? And so I think we can attend to that in a future CIP discussion as we move closer forward with the agreement. They were looking at 2018 but the State is moving some projects around. They’re short cash and so they’re really looking at, that’s a larger project. Pushing that off to 2019 but that is funded at the State level as a grant through the Carver County application. We will be a partner at the table 4 years out. We just don’t know what that will look like. There’s a variety of projects that come on and Manchester Park for example. West water treatment plant has been moving around. That may come on line as fast as 2017 and currently what we’re asking our engineering group is just to build that park as a part of that west water treatment plant, if you’re familiar with that piece of property. When that piece of property was acquired it was a split land deal. The park fund put in $400,000 at that time for acquisition of that property. That’s a pretty hefty chunk of cash for the land that you’re going to see as a part of a park. The primary holder of the site will be the water treatment plant. Council is really interested in building that plant because of the high zone is untreated water and so you’re providing a city service, a basic city service which is water to a community and you’re providing the best half of water and on the east side of town and the worst half of water to the west side of town and so people are paying the same amount for water and so they’re real interested in making sure that project moves forward. It’s a big budget item but you’ll see that site come together. The engineering group is working on a plan right now. Our park got much smaller when their water treatment plant got bigger so we’re back advocating for a larger park site but you’ll see that come together so that’s one that has been on and it’s currently we’re asking that group to take care of that. The Arboretum trail is now funded and will be at the table with something for that. Athletic field lights, you know will that happen? When will it happen? 9 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Should there be a referendum to take a look at that? What will happen with this fall’s referendum in the athletic dome that they’re talking about in Chaska, is that going to pass? And the swimming pool so there’s a lot of moving factors right now. Much of staff’s recommendation is focusing on land acquisition that you received at Bandimere Park and then with the picnic shelter there, just moving that park forward and you know Lake Ann receives a lot of accolades for it’s amenities and really what people us is that when they go there to play ball, baseball whether it be for a tournament or something else there’s just a lot of other things to enjoy at the park. In Bandimere I think we see the same level of play but we’re just not there with some of the amenities and so if we install these other things that families can do while they’re there and enjoy a shelter and do some other things and then have hockey in the winter because it acts as a neighborhood park as well. Even much more so than Lake Ann. Lake Ann does have a fairly, it’s fairly isolated. Bandimere is in a populated area. Little bit more populated and in the future we’re asking the entire west side of Highway 101, which will be developed into homes to use Bandimere Park as their neighborhood park and so that’s something to remember that that underpass will lead to all those new homes on the Wilson Tree Farm. The Tim Erhart Farm which will be 300 or 400 homes likely. 200-300-400 homes to the west that we’re asking them to come back to Bandimere Park as their neighborhood because we don’t have the cash and we don’t have the land to acquire another neighborhood park on that side. They have the large Fox Woods Preserve and then Bandimere Park will be their park so you want to develop those things so they’re, they can bike there. Walk there and enjoy tennis, hockey in the winter, ball field, playground--all the things that you would expect in a significant park. Kelly: Todd question for you. Last meeting was moved the entry signs, Bandimere Park and Lake Susan Park into 2017 to smooth out the expenses from one year to the next a little bit. Was that just missed or was that moved back for a reason? Hoffman: Just missed. Not moved back for a reason and so wherever you would like to see that project take place, we’ll certainly advocate for that. Kelly: Well do we want to approach, discuss this year by year starting with 2016. Right now moving the $60,000 out that means we have $775,000 for the park dedication fund. That’s listed for the expenses coming out which include the picnic tables, the trees, the hockey rink, the Galpin trail extension and the Bandimere parking lot extension and that takes us up to $775,000. Debate? Questions? We like how next year is looking? Are we all happy with it and like 2016 and want to move to 2017? Hougham: I like 2016. Kelly: Okay. Hougham: I think we need to, I think we should keep the hockey rink and the parking lot together. I think that at Bandimere makes the most sense. Kelly: I don’t think we have much of a choice on that. 10 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Hougham: I don’t think we have a choice on the $150,000. I think we have to have it there in case it happens. That’s all I have. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: And that might not happen. Hougham: So that might move out. Hoffman: It might not happen ever. They might abandon that project. Scharfenberg: You’re talking about the City of Shorewood. Hoffman: Correct. Scharfenberg: Why would they abandon it? I thought they were all gung ho to do that. Hoffman: They were and then just the cost came in high and so they didn’t like it and you know things shift. It came in and I can’t say where they’re at. I anticipate that they’ll try it again but don’t know. Kelly: Everybody on board with 2016? Scharfenberg: So that’s with the moving of the $60,000 back to 2017? Kelly: Correct. Thunberg: I like it. I agree with having the Bandimere Park upgrades be a priority in the coming year and obviously like we just stated the hockey rink and the parking lot, doing it together. Parking lot is at the top of priority as we’ve seen that parking lot can get pretty full so I think building out that space that we’ve recently acquired and have prepped is a good priority to have for the next year. Hoffman: We can’t keep the grass alive in the overflow parking area. Kelly: Okay let’s move right along to 2017. 2017 we’ve got picnic tables, trees, $60,000 for the entry signs to Bandimere and Lake Susan and $225,000 for the Roundhouse Park tennis court. Discussion. Hougham: I think we should prioritize the Bandimere tennis courts over the Roundhouse tennis courts. Kelly: I would tend to agree with that. If we’re going to do tennis courts. Well I’m not in favor of tennis courts at Roundhouse at all and as discussed last meeting and I wouldn’t support that. I 11 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 could possibly support tennis courts at Bandimere and I do agree that if we’re going to do that, that we should move them around so Bandimere has priority. Other thoughts? Scharfenberg: Well I’m not, I don’t know that we need to add tennis courts necessarily at Bandimere. I mean if we’re going to, we talked about you know Roundhouse doing something at Roundhouse for them. They clearly, that was their number one thing was tennis so if we’re going to do a tennis court there I don’t know if we want to do it in 2017 or do something else. I guess I’m for putting something at Roundhouse and doing something for them to improve that park. Kelly: I’m all for a basketball court but I’m against a tennis court and I talked to some of the tennis players and they said they go to, you know they go across Highway 7. They’ve never had a problem getting on and we even got an email from one of the tennis players and he said tennis courts would be a good fit and convenient for us. However the tennis across Highway 7 seem to be open anytime we want to play so finding time to play tennis, I think we’re wasting our resources on building a tennis court and I’d be happy to put in a basketball court for them. Hougham: There is a half court and just the one hoop. They would like to see that expanded into 2 court. It’s what we had discussed last time. Kelly: Right and it’s an old, I think it’s an old back board. Hougham: It is. They would like updated basketball hoops. Scharfenberg: What if we were to do at Roundhouse, what if we increase the size of the slab there. Put in a better hoop and built a back board so that if somebody wanted to hit balls they have that ability to do it somehow because they did complain about, there was the complaint about balls going off with playing basketball so somehow if that’s fenced in, if we do some fencing along with that, update the court and put in a backboard, at least somebody could hit balls there if they wanted to. Kelly: I think that’s a great idea. Hougham: So question for you on the court. So on a basketball court could you put pickleball lines that they could put up that temporary net? Hoffman: Sure as long as you make a chunk of asphalt big enough. You could make it multi- functional. At some point you’re going to, depending on how large you want to go we’ll get you numbers on that. You’re going to be investing you know $60,000 to $100,000 in a facility. Something like that maybe. Kelly: I think if we expanded it and at least put fences up on two sides behind and on the side where the basketball goes and then down, you can put the back board up for tennis players to go and hit. And I don’t know that we need a full fence but that’s, that’s the way I kind of envision it. 12 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Hoffman: I would recommend if you’re not going to build that tennis court that we hold a public hearing here with that neighborhood to eliminate that from the plan and to change that and take public testimony here at a park board meeting. I think that would be appropriate since we’ve had that on the plan for 17 years. We’ve told them we’re going to build this and we hold a neighborhood meeting and that’s their number one thing and then we come back to a park board and eliminate it. I don’t think that’s fair to that neighborhood without a public hearing here at this body. Carron: I think just to kind of piggy back there. If you look at the map that staff has provided on the back that obviously number 9, which is Roundhouse Park kind of sticks out because it’s a piece of Chanhassen that’s way far out there and not near anything else. Roundhouse Park is a really nice park. It’s very large. It can service a lot of things and maybe there’s some possibility, well before I get to that. I agree with where it’s at now in 2017 of doing some sort of an improvement out there versus Bandimere let’s say for 2018. I’m happy with where those two funding sources are at in years. Maybe there’s a chance where if they’ve got half a basketball court out there now, maybe the capital replacement fund can pitch in half and we can pitch in half for a full sized basketball court and I don’t know, maybe get creative there but I agree with Todd. I think we, I think we put this in 2017 for my aspect of what I’m thinking here and then we invite the group back in here to a meeting and kind of go through it with them. Once it’s in the CIP we’ve got the funding there. They know something’s coming and we just kind of leave it as a gray place holder for now. Kelly: So we change Roundhouse Park to $100,000 because that’s what they estimate it would be for a basketball court the way we’re looking at it. Carron: How about we split it then because I know, I necessarily don’t want to take tennis court off the completely off the list. I think we need some money in there to fund something. Maybe it’s not the $225,000 but maybe it’s not the $100,000. What was the cost of a tennis court Todd? Hoffman: Double tennis court about $200,000 to $225,000. Carron: For a double tennis court? Hoffman: Yeah. Carron: I think I’d be for playing it a little bit safe Cole and leaving some money in there just as a place holder for next year and discuss it at that point and if we want to come down with it, we can. If we want to go up. Or we won’t go up basically. It is what it is but. Hougham: Todd is it recommended that if we do tennis that we would do a double court and not a single court? Hoffman: Yeah just because that’s our standard and so you have, you know it’s building one you’re going to spend $125,000-$150,000 to build one. You’re going to get a lot of efficiencies 13 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 to build two. The location is created for two and then in a park that size, when you have one and somebody’s playing there’s other people coming you just don’t have that ability to hold lessons or a program because you only have one court. It’s just not enough room. If we have two courts then we could run neighborhood lessons and just, that’s what the park was set up. Back when the park commission started that park 17, 18, 19, 20 years ago they said we don’t have the cash to build your tennis court now. We’ll put the, carve out the spot and so if you saw the spot where the basketball is, that’s where the tennis court would fit and then just left it off and we’ve never been back to discuss that tennis court. There haven’t been tennis courts built in our city in a long time. The last one would have been Meadow Green and North Lotus Lake Park probably close to 20 years ago. And the problem is our tennis courts are always empty. At least every time I go by one so that’s why I really have a tough time spending money on building something that, at least in this area seems on a decline and especially when you’ve got a different sport that’s up and coming and I think you’ve got to watch and kind of manage that and see you know. The other thing I like about pickleball and that will be a discussion for down the road, you bring more seniors into town and seniors have money to spend more than other people do and. Scharfenberg: Not after this week. Kelly: That will come back. So I guess it depends on are you looking to bring more people into town to spend more money? Are you looking just to spend money so we look good as a park and maybe we’ll move up on the rankings but nobody’s going to be using them? That’s my take. Hoffman: Yeah, staff does not concur with that opinion that tennis courts are empty. We spend a lot of time in the parks. We see a lot of people playing tennis. I think I sent a note, on National Night Out we had a conversation with the Meadow Green Park neighborhood. They’re loving their tennis court and lots of people are playing tennis so they are empty. All of our ballfields are empty right now at this point. There’s nobody playing ballfields. You know all these things have a season but the gentleman I talked to at Meadow Green he said they really turn over and so there was a senior community there when he moved in 22 years ago and now it’s all families and they’re playing a lot of tennis. That was the neighborhood where they’re in fact playing so much tennis that when the kids show up and the 2 courts are full, they’re warming up on the basketball court before a court opens up at Meadow Green Park so I know tennis not what it was in the 70’s but it’s certainly in our opinion a basic recreation service that provides a lot of easily accessible summer recreation for a broad spectrum of people in our community. Thunberg: Todd does Roundhouse Park get used just primarily by that neighborhood or is there other parts of the community because while it’s a ways out when we look at the map, which at first could say okay that’s why we should put one there because it’s kind of off by itself. The flip side is when I look at the map on the others it seems like it could serve broader parts of the community. Pass through traffic. You don’t necessarily have to be in the neighborhood right there whereas if it’s only serving that neighborhood that’s a very expensive amenity to put in for, you know like the cost per usage if it’s only serving one small part. 14 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Hoffman: Yeah there’s a lot of homes in that area so I’m not sure what the count is. We mailed all of them but it’s a large service area. It’s why we call it that super neighborhood park so it’s geographically isolated. There’s a lot of homes there. There are people that pass through but most the use would be by the people on the parkway you know coming up and down. The reason the park was positioned there in the center on the parkway it’s visible. All those folks can gain access to it. And something that at least in my position all these years those neighbors will tell you that they always have a chip on their shoulder because they feel that the village doesn’t take care of them. That they’re so far out that we don’t take care of them so I thought it was very good of the park board to go out there and take the opportunity to meet with them and talk to them about that because that’s one of the things they’ve always told us. The same with North Lotus but this especially the west side of Lake Minnewashta and the north side of Lake Minnewashta is that they believe the village just hasn’t really paid a lot of attention to them over the years so because they didn’t have that park there and then you know it was finally acquired and the trail was put on the parkway and now they’ve got some pretty good recreation services. Crossing Highway 7, again staff just cannot advocate that we would say you should let your kids cross Highway 7 to gain access to a tennis court. That’s not, adults can do that but you’re certainly not going to send your young kids across Highway 7 to gain access to the other, and that’s a single court on Cathcart Park owned by the City of Shorewood. Carron: Couldn’t we do a tennis court and 2 pickleball courts? Hoffman: You could but I would rather do 2 tennis and then put temporary nets there so you have 2 full service tennis courts where you could operate programs. Lessons and then if you wanted to do pickleball you put a box alongside with 2 temporary pickleball or 4 nets in there and then you paint lines on there. Then you could also have basketball. So you have 2 tennis with basketball on the same court and then if you want to play pickleball you throw up some temporary facilities which is very common. Eden Prairie’s doing it. A variety of other communities are doing it. I’m not sure we have, if we don’t do basketball and the tennis we’d have to move into the open skate area I think for an additional piece of flat space and so that’s going to start to affect our winter recreation program out there as well. Or we have to go up into the open field and carve out another piece of flat spot for a basketball and so I really think the best plan there is 2 tennis courts with basketball on those, on that court. Two rinks too back and forth. Boettcher: Todd a little bit different subject. Looking at the numbers this month versus what we had last month, I see that athletic field lighting is completely dropped off. Is that the recommendation? Hoffman: That’s staff’s recommendation. Boettcher: It is. Hoffman: Proposed any future lighting or artificial turf as a part of the whole package and so once we finish up with the study, you know that could be a few million dollars and put that on a referendum for all those future athletic improvements. Lake Susan could be turned into a 15 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 ballfield. Where do we want to light? Do we want to light all of Bandimere all at once? And so at least Jerry McDonald, Councilman McDonald, Mayor Laufenburger are taking a look at that. Others didn’t mention specifically that they would support that but certainly they were there and could offer up another opinion but, so that’s something staff, city manager is starting to talk about that. At what point should we do that? What should be included? Obviously the council and city manager will look to this body to develop a recommendation for any future referendum which really take all those things you’re going to be talking about next month and decide what priorities are going to be your first priorities. You know this town’s growing up and the school district is providing other facilities. We’re a little bit hindered because there are so many school district facilities in other towns. Minnetonka has a lot of facilities. Chaska has a lot of facilities in their town and so we’re a little bit behind that and you’ll see that in the numbers. The school fields really pop out in Chaska. We have much fewer school fields in Chanhassen. I think a temporary dome would go at Lake Ann and so the soccer field and field number 6 would have to probably have to change it’s configuration to capture a little space there. If you take a look, if you study Lake Ann there’s room there for additional parking and so you need a lot more parking for a dome. Put that parking up front and you propose that dome there and then we have full time winter use at Lake Ann with artificial turf. Lights. Parking. You know we can play sports, all sorts of sports all winter long and as a community I think at some point you know we just have to think about providing those services and we can’t do those in the budget we currently have and so if people want them they can vote yes. If they don’t support them they’ll vote no and we’ll continue on as we are. Echternacht: Todd am I correct that in the hockey, the lights for the hockey area. Hoffman: Are included. Echternacht: Are included. Kelly: So back to our discussion, I think we all want to do something for Roundhouse but I can’t get on board for tennis courts and if we want to put a place holder in there for $150,000 you can talk me into that. Scharfenberg: You know I saw that the shelter here has been moved back to 2020 and I don’t necessarily agree with that. I think that the shelter should come ahead of the tennis courts at Bandimere even if we decide to do that so my inclination would be to move, we had talked about taking the $90,000 for the Chanhassen Nature Preserve. Moving that back to 2020. I would like to see at least the shelter moved up 1 year if not 2 years. Carron: With that Steve, what’s your feelings when having a shelter at Bandimere and in relationship to lighting the fields? Because personally that’s what I’m kind of hung up on is do you spend that kind of cash and put up a shelter of that size and that magnitude and then not have a lit ballfield as well. And I’m not saying one way or another is the best. I’m just, I’m hung up on that where you’re talking about a $1.2 million dollar deal most likely. 16 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Scharfenberg: Yeah you know I think the shelters at Lake Ann aren’t necessarily built for the ballfields or with lighting there so they’re there to serve a purpose and I think that that shelter out at Bandimere would serve a purpose having bathrooms. Having ability to, people to rent it and to accommodate those people that are out there because you’ve got multi-use obviously going on out there with soccer and baseball and disc golf so personally I’m okay with putting a shelter there even if those fields never get lit because I think it serves a purpose for that, for that park. Thunberg: Todd for that, the $640,000 would that type of shelter be similar to what’s at Lake Susan? I’m just trying to picture what the $640,000 would get for. Hoffman: Yeah. It’d be a little bit larger but includes, and Lake Susan has a lot of space taken up with the well house and so we have a picture. You want to go grab that board please in my office…picture of what the shelter would look like. It would be a covered shelter. I think our capacity was in the. Scharfenberg: Here it is. I’ve got it. Hoffman: Yeah, couple hundred range. Running water. Storage. More significant structure. It’s like building a house. Echternacht: Especially that that’s going to be considered the park for the new development across 101 we’re definitely going to need a shelter there anyway and. Hoffman: And to Commissioner Carron’s point whether it’s in 2019 or 2020 the question of should we light fields will likely have been brought up and voted on by that time so there would be, the community will either have said yes and we’ll be building them and if they have said no we won’t be. Thunberg: Does staff have a recommendation that because this is a community park that it should have a larger picnic shelter? Hoffman: A picnic shelter when you have, it’s always been in the plan at Bandimere and you have a park of that size and can service that many opportunities for group outings, tournaments, picnics, large corporate gatherings, it’s a nice facility to have for a variety of reasons. The 2 shelters at Lake Ann are leveraged. Earlier park boards built the first one. The City Council and the park board and then the second one was brought up simply because it was a great site and then for a long while this park board, previous park boards said well we don’t need 2 shelters at Lake Ann. That’s ridiculous and then eventually there was a momentum shift and they said yeah, that’s just a really nice site. We think we can accommodate that and now it’s been a big hit. And one thing you hear about, if you read and you have them, you read the reviews people want bathrooms and so if we can put modern restrooms in a facility like that it’s going to be, you know corporations don’t have to go to Lake Ann. They can go to, they just need a spot with a facility that can accommodate in a park. Their people can play softball. They can play disc golf. They can go play field sports. Their kids can play in the playground and it would be a popular setting for that kind of a facility. Yeah they’ve got the small one, yeah. 17 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Kelly: Todd as you said earlier when you had your discussion with the City Council that in 2020 we’re going to be running out of soccer place and I kind of feel the same way Brent does is that lighting would be more important than adding a shelter because we need the additional playing time and it’s about servicing the people in town and a shelter would be nice and at some point we need one. Especially when that new development goes in but we need space for kids to play and we can’t tell that we’re going to get a referendum and be able to buy some Holasek land or you know we don’t know what’s going to happen there so that’s something that would be nice if that would happen but I think we’ve got to kind of think about okay, how do we get playing time for these kids that we’re, you know as you stated we’re going to run out of it in 2020? Hoffman: Well you have the numbers right now and so they show a negative 3 fields in 2020 based on the growth for, you know the council spent a good deal of time talking about how teams flex back and forth but this is just the true numbers. What we have for fields currently and so baseball, we’re not short. We’re short in large lacrosse, soccer fields. Bandimere was a real blessing when it arrived to bring 3 fields but we haven’t added any since and so that’s been a long time as well. And the high school came to town and fortunately added some turf fields that provide really nice space for a variety of sports but we haven’t acquired any other soccer fields in quite some time. Developments like Holasek, that property, that’s a good opportunity. We always want to take a look at that. We’ve been having some conversations but you know who knows what’s going to stick and what’s not going to stick. The issues with Holasek is that they have some peat soils that really are not buildable unless you do a whole lot of improvements to the soils and they have some pipeline, either to move or not to move and so just this past week we had a conversation, there’s developers that are working on it and we’ve utilized a method where people donate property and so they’re going to get some capital gains off the sale and prior to those capital gains they donate some property and they take that write off and so that’s one option. Park dedication is one option but it’s a big chunk of land and you could put anywhere from 1 to 3 fields in the site that we’re currently talking about at that property. You know no guarantees that’s going to happen. It’s just a conversation. Similar to the Bandimere expansion. For years and years and years that was just a conversation. Should that happen? Shouldn’t that happen? Eventually we said you know we want to take a look at this because developers are going to buy your property and turn it into townhomes and the price was too high and then eventually the prices turned around so we had that opportunity, and they were willing sellers at that point so a lot of these things get kicked around for a long time. You know you could add lights but we also have to rest fields and so if we add lights to grass soccer fields like we do at Lake Ann eventually you have to rest them as well. You just can’t keep playing so should we do turf and a referendum could or could not be part of that future but you know how are we going to gain additional ballfield space? It could just be through a combination of things so wait and see what your conversation is with the council. The last time a referendum happened it started here and went up to the council and they increased the size of it. Right now you have at least a part of the council that’s telling you they’re potentially interested and so I think as a park board you should give that a shot and take an opportunity at least developing something and putting it out to the voters. This is a completely different community than voted on a park referendum in 1997 and before that there was a few other park referendums so how you get there, and how these dollars are spent you know. You could put up a picnic shelter at Bandimere 18 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 in a referendum. Nothing to say you can’t do that. You could not do anything at Bandimere. You could put it all a referendum and you could carve out all that cash and do something else with it. You know it’s just basically about what you think your priorities are as a park board and what you want to do first and what you want to put up to risk because a referendum is a risk factor. Here you have cash in the bank. Carron: So Cole. Kelly: Yes. Carron: I’ll follow you on the 150 for Roundhouse Park tennis court for this reason. If the Bandimere Park tennis courts 225. We’ve got 225 for Roundhouse on the spreadsheet in the back. Todd correct me if I’m wrong but the Bandimere tennis court includes $60,000 dollars for lights and electrical service. Plus wood chip entrance $1,500 dollars. 8 foot bituminous trail $6,000. If you take that out, you add the contingency for design, engineering and your 10 percent so you have 18 percent, I figure it should only cost $125,000 if this is about right. Hoffman: For the double tennis court? Carron: For the double tennis court. Hoffman: (Yes). Carron: Then the plan that we have for Bandimere shows some, a back board and then also a couple basketball hoops as well in the plan so I don’t know if that’s included in it or not. They do have a miscellaneous court accessories nets. You know they have budgeted in here for $2,000 that I’ve also added so realistically this is obviously an estimate that was done this year for 2016 150 is a little fluff. You can go 125 because that’s what it costs. If it costs a little bit more next year but I think 150 is more than sufficient to give them double tennis court, basketball court, back board, everything at Bandimere minus the lights. Hougham: I agree with that. Hoffman: You don’t need lights. We don’t have them at any of the neighborhood parks currently. Tennis court lights. Just community parks. Scharfenberg: Brent what did you take out of the Bandimere again? The lights… Carron: Yep, and then the woodchip construction entrance and the 8 foot bituminous trail. Scharfenberg: Why would you take the trail out? Hougham: The trail is to connect the parking lot to the tennis court. We wouldn’t need that necessarily at Roundhouse. Because there’s no, there’s a parking lot there but there’s no sidewalk correct so there’s nothing really to connect it to. 19 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Carron: I was just going bare bones. Scharfenberg: And that got you to what number? Echternacht: 150. Carron: 125. Echternacht: Well, are you looking to put 150 in there as a place? Carron: I mean costs are going to go up over here so if you want to put a budgetary number in. I mean even 130, 135 I think would be sufficient. Kelly: Okay let’s put a budgetary number in of $135,000. What it is TBD? Carron: Okay outside of that I agree back to the park shelter and the tennis courts, kind of Todd I think made a good point where when the referendum if it does go through we might know something about then about lights and what not. I know it’s pushed out there. I know it could be just a place holder. It’s kind of sitting in there to keep us reminded. I agree that I would like to see a shelter happen at Bandimere before that but I think the referendum, if that talk is still on the table here in the next year or two with the information that the City Council was just given on the needs of Chanhassen in the parks, it’d be something that we might want to move up or potentially take off the list or move back depending upon what the City Council and the referendum, what they decide to do so my personal feeling is I’m kind of indifferent on 2019 and 2020 because I think it’s far enough out there that we’ve got some information that could pop up here shortly that would help us create a path of what we might want to do in the future. Hougham: Do you think we should do the tennis courts at Bandimere before the shelter or move the shelter up to 2018 and move the tennis courts back? Kelly: The beauty of moving the tennis courts back is in a few years we’re going to know if pickleball overtakes tennis like it looks like it’s going to and at that point, a couple years down the road we might say well you know pickleball would actually be better there than tennis and we don’t know what it’s going to be right now so that might make sense is to move the tennis courts out to 2020 and move the shelter up. Scharfenberg: I’m fine with that. Echternacht: Me too. Thunberg: Can I throw out, so when Todd mentioned it earlier when he was speaking but just to bring up the idea of a splash pad again so Todd I know you mentioned that when we initially pitched the idea of having something at Bandimere and that maybe was shot down and different locations were being discussed. One article, I think it was one of the park magazines we get, 20 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Burnsville recently put one in. I don’t think the cost of that was much more than a couple hundred thousand dollars. I wish I would have brought it with me because it said. I think it was about $200,000 and something. They also received some donations so the cost to the City was even less. I think they got about $70,000. Yep so, and it had about 15 pieces and stuff so I think sometimes when we talk about a splash pad and if you talk about City Center Park it’s something, it seems big right? It seems like we needed a referendum to acquire land and it’s going to cost over a million dollars but I think there are options out there that you know for something similar as a $225,000 dollar tennis court you could put in a splash pad and so if you know Bandimere is shaping up to be a park of multiple uses and if it’s something that a lot of communities around us are putting in, I think you made a good point about referendums are risky and they don’t always get done and I think there’s, we should plan our CIP not relying and waiting for a referendum to happen. We should plan on what we think our priorities are and maybe everyone here decides a splash pad is not one of them but if that is something that the community might be asking for I think, I just wanted to throw it back out there again. It doesn’t have to be a million dollar purchase from what I’ve seen other cities do. It could be something in this price range of other projects we’re talking about so. Before we totally finalized on Bandimere priorities I just wanted to bring that one back up one more time. Todd you can shoot it down, say it’s never going to happen at Bandimere but I wanted to at least bring it back up. Kelly: When it discussed the costs over at Burnsville was the water already in place there so? Boettcher: I’m just reading the article here. They’re talking about donations they had $70,000 from one. Lions Club put in $50,000. Kelly: Well my question is, since it’s not a million dollars and it was only a couple hundred thousand, was the water already in place so they didn’t have to reroute water and sewer lines or route them in and dig them in. Boettcher: It was at the playground so I imagine there was water there somewhere. Thunberg: I don’t know the details but that’s why I think potentially why we have the utilities lines running at Bandimere so if there was a spot that had not something huge like a million dollar facility but if there was, if there are options out there that have 15 piece splash pad that we could put next to the playground there. If we also had a shelter in the future I think it seems like a good possible spot if we already have the water running there as well. Hoffman: Commissioner Thunberg I’m not going to shoot anything down but I think part of the hesitancy and part of the reason why it may tend towards a referendum question is because the hesitancy of is this something that this community should build. When you put it on a referendum it’s basically a vote. You know there’s plenty of them being built. We better recycle the water if we build it. That was the big gist of the article. Hougham: Is there room at Bandimere for one to go or where would the other park, parks that were considered? 21 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Hoffman: We had a plan. It’s gone now but… Kelly: I think part of the reason why it’s so expensive is some of the playground would have to be redone with the splash pad so it’s a lot more expensive deal that a couple hundred thousand for in our case. Hoffman: Yeah just a blank slate. Kelly: Yeah so and I think since we were told, we were shot down by the City Council more or less for Bandimere I don’t see a reason to put it in there and have them tell us to take it out again. Hoffman: You do have a new City Council. Thunberg: I understand that about Bandimere. As we’re talking about these price points and bigger projects I just wanted to bring it up again. I totally agree, I mean I get it. If we were shot down with Bandimere on one hand it could be seen as foolish to just try it again but I just, it’s part of the broader idea of I don’t, I don’t as we’re talking Bandimere and park lights and things like that, I don’t think we should necessarily set our priorities for our CIP fund banking on different referendums happening. Kelly: Oh I agree with you on that. Thunberg: And so some of it is let’s take the risk out of that and if we feel that priority is turf so we can do an artificial or a temporary dome then I think we should have that conversation. Or if it is, you know a splash pad is something that’s important then I think we should have that and make sure those are in our CIP and maybe a shelter is something, then we swap it out and we say no picnic shelter is what we’d rather have as a referendum. And so a splash pad might be something that is something that we can handle the risk and put it in a referendum but if we feel like it’s a priority, I just wanted to point out that the recent example of Burnsville wasn’t one that cost a million dollars so we don’t have to do necessarily something that, maybe we do a referendum and it’s huge and it’s massive and it’s wonderful and attracts people from all around or we do one that’s slightly bigger than out here at the fountain and it still gets plenty of you know activity. Hoffman: It was a dog park this morning. A bunch of dogs in there. You know again I think some of you were around for the history. This park commission was shot down on a $10,000 disc golf course at Bandimere Park and you had to come back and regroup and do it again. Getting a no is not always the final say. There’s park and rec commissions over the history have done a lot of things to go back and work hard if you believe in it. If it’s something you think is going to be successful. A lot of the things that you fought hardest for have been success points in our community and a lot of things we didn’t initially believe in. Off leash dog park. Skate park. Disc golf. A lot of things that people were hesitant about and said that probably will never happen have been some of our biggest successes in our community. 22 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Kelly: So if I’m hearing everybody correctly we’ve already got 2016 done. 2017 looks like this. $10,000 picnic tables, park benches. $15,000 trees. $60,000 entry signs into Bandimere and Lake Susan. $135,000 for something to be done at Roundhouse Park. 2018 we’ve got $10,000 for picnic tables. $15,000 for trees. $640,000 for Bandimere Community Park picnic shelter and that would be it. And then for 2019 it looks just as we see it. $10,000 for picnic tables. $15,000 for trees. $90,000 for Chanhassen Native Preserve trail final phase and then in 2020 I’ve got $10,000 for picnic tables. $15,000 for trees. $225,000 for some kind of sport court at Bandimere. And is that the agreement with everybody? That’s kind of what I’ve heard as we’ve talked this through. Thunberg: Just because I like to keep throwing wrenches in it, Brent did you have anything you wanted to say about an amphitheater or are we kind of moving on from that one? I’m just trying to think as what you just read Cole is very Bandimere heavy which I’ve said I think I’m fine with that being a priority but just to make sure before we give it the stamp of approval. We’re still kind of thinking about other smaller projects that might need to be done out there or other ideas that, such as the amphitheater you brought up a few months back. Carron: I think I would like to hear Landon’s report on the survey. The summer concert series and then take that into consideration before we talk anything about Bandimere so I think for this current CIP for, take that amphitheater off the list for now. Kelly: Anybody anything else? Are we all in agreement? Carron: I like it. Echternacht: Looks good to me. Kelly: Okay somebody want to put it to the question with the changes discussed and made. Boettcher: Well you have all the changes written down if you say the changes I’ll do the motion. Kelly: Okay. So it would be the park and recreation committee recommends that the City Council approve a 2016-2020 park and trail acquisition and developmental capital improvement plan, program excuse me. CIP that includes 10 projects. Picnic tables, park benches, trees, Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail, Bandimere Park hockey rink, Bandimere Park picnic shelter, Galpin Boulevard trail extension, park entry signs, Roundhouse Park court of some kind, Bandimere sport court of some kind, and Bandimere parking lot expansion totaling, I don’t think we changed the prices. Yes we did. We reduced by $90,000 so the projects would be totaling $2,025,000 in the park dedication fund. Yep we only reduced one amount. So that would be the proposed motion. Scharfenberg: What’s the final number that you come up with? Kelly: $2,025,000. 23 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Scharfenberg: Can we just check those numbers one more time. Kelly: Sure. So we’ve got $775,000. Boettcher: Steve I think what he did, what Brent had recommended was $135,000 instead of $225,000 for Roundhouse so take the $90,000 off the $2,115,000 that we had before and I think that’s the easily math. Scharfenberg: And then we reduced the, and we were reducing the Bandimere one as well to $135,000 right? Echternacht: No. Kelly: No. Echternacht: That stayed the same. Boettcher: That one stays the same. Scharfenberg: Oh I thought we were talking about reducing that and taking the lights out. Hoffman: Just for Roundhouse. Echternacht: Just for Roundhouse. Carron: That $225,000 figure included lights for Roundhouse. That’s why we went down to $135,000 for Roundhouse. Bandimere lights are still included in that $225,000. Scharfenberg: Oh okay. Echternacht: He was using Bandimere’s numbers to. Scharfenberg: Yep, yep. Hoffman: And that’s typical Steve in a neighborhood park setting we don’t have a lot of lights at tennis courts but in a community park they want to play. Often times its basketball that they play right up until 10:00. Not tennis. Kelly: So do the numbers jive? I’ll keep moving forward here. Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: Yeah the numbers jive. Okay so that’s, Jim that would be the motion if you want to make it. 24 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Boettcher: Okay just say what he said. I’d like to make a motion that we accept the CIP as listed with the 10, I believe 10 changes as listed by Chair Kelly with the revised total of $2,025,000. Kelly: There is a motion on the floor. Is there a second? Hougham: I second that. Kelly: And there is a second. Boettcher moved, Hougham seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends the City Council approve the 2016-2020 park and trail acquisition and development capital improvement program (CIP) that includes ten projects: picnic tables/park benches, trees, Chanhassen Nature Preserve trail, Bandimere Park hockey rink, Bandimere Park picnic shelter, Galpin Boulevard trail extension, park entry signs, Roundhouse Park sport courts, Bandimere Park sport courts and Bandimere Park parking lot expansion totaling $2,025,000. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. Hoffman: Thank you. KLEINBANK SUMMER CONCERT SERIES SURVEY RESULTS. Kelly: Landon, I think you’re going to give us a little survey results. Rimestad: I am. We’re good. Alright yes so as I provided in the packet is just some information about the survey, or memorandum given to Jerry Ruegemer and then includes questions highlighted responses and the survey itself along with the data that I put in and analyzed and just so you can see what I saw and where I got my thoughts from. So the survey was directed from the commission to gain what future improvements should be made on the concert series and so we put the survey into effect this summer and we planned to distribute it at 9 concerts. We had 8 concerts so far. We had 2 cancelled and we were able to reschedule for one rain date. The crowds at the concerts varied from 150 people to 350 which our top number came from the Sound of Simon which is our most popular concert I believe. Yep, Katie gives me a thumbs up. And so just going through the questions, to highlight some of the responses. The location was one of the, or is the top or most in favor between the surveys. 82 percent of the total responses, along with time, length and variety, a lot of good responses from that. Our biggest music varieties that are enjoyed are country and rock. We have had, I think we’ve had 3 concerts that have been of the rock variety and 2 or 3 of country as well this summer. Those are very, were held in high regards by the community. And so, and the communities learns from these concerts about, or through the Chanhassen Connection and the Villager most. Those are, seems like they’re read than the Facebook, Twitter and other outlets. Not that those aren’t important but those are the most used or responded I guess. The time preferred by this community, 7:00 to 8:00, an hour program according to the data spreadsheet. There is some suggestions to length the concert to an hour and a half or 2 hours but there’s not as much support for that suggestion as there is for keeping the time an hour and keeping it from that time 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. is preferred 25 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 with a 94.52 percent of the total responses and surveys. Concessions were, they’re favored and I don’t think it’d make a difference whether or not there was concessions or not. Maybe a little difference of people attending but I definitely think it’s a good idea to have because we’re providing that service and keeping people there. A lot of people are coming either maybe from work or just arrived and would like a snack as well as their families too. Keeping the kids entertained. Popcorn has been a big seller. We sell popcorn for 50 cents and that makes up the majority of our revenue for just the concessions at the concert series. Hoffman: We charge them 7 bucks like the movie theater. Raise our revenues incredibly. Kelly: Or not sell any popcorn. Rimestad: One or the other. And the information that I looked at the most was whether or not to build an amphitheater as Brent had mentioned before and 58.9 percent believe that an amphitheater’s not needed. A lot of conversations that I’ve had with the concert goers concluded with we like it where it is. We wouldn’t change it. It’s close. It’s downtown. It’s, I think Todd you walked to every concert or biked and you live, I’m not sure pretty far away or and that’s a, quite a distance but still walking and I’m sure that most the community that shows up at the concerts is either very close and moving the concert out to Lake Ann or another site might not be feasible for just the community that would get less attendance for that concert. Another point brought up with the amphitheater is that we have not discussed with the Minnesota Arboretum about having an amphitheater on site there and an item that we’d have to consider is that they do charge to enter the park there so how would we compensate them for that, those charges and so figure out something to be considered if we do think about an amphitheater there. It’s my recommendation that we keep the concert series as is with no modification. Same time. Same length of time and keeping it, bringing in local talent from Minnesota. We’ve had great reviews and there’s a lot of ties between different bands and people keep coming back for the concerts just because of the local talent. So I’ll open it up for questions or thoughts as well. Kelly: Questions for Landon. Landon, did anybody, let’s see. Okay what additions or improvements. Comments were offer alcohol. More children’s concerts. Provide cover for weather which is hard to do. On the alcohol question, obviously the City can’t provide alcohol but could we have a provider in town who’s got a license if the City Council grants them the usage of selling it at the park. Has that been talked about ever by staff? Hoffman: No I think it’s just as easy to let people bring their own. I don’t think there’s the volume of sale there. You can bring your own beer or wine. Kelly: Oh yeah I’ve done that. Hougham: You can? Hoffman: Oh absolutely. Kelly: You can drink in any park but it’s just beer and wine right? 26 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Hougham: Any park? Hoffman: Yeah and that’s what people don’t understand so we’ve been trying to get that message out. Bring your picnic. Bring your beer. Bring your wine and we’re not going to have the volume to sale to have, to bring a vendor in but you can. Hougham: I think people would be okay with bringing their own. Kelly: Other questions. Scharfenberg: Landon I just want to say, I know this was probably one of, if not your big project this summer right? Rimestad: It was yes. Scharfenberg: And I think you did a tremendous job you know representing the City and interviewing all the people that showed up so I just want to thank you for that opportunity and putting this information together. This has been extremely helpful and I think it will help us you know kind of going forward in terms of making a decision. That being said, you know I like the numbers you know in terms of keeping it downtown. I think people like that. They like being downtown. As Todd indicated earlier you know we were turned down a couple of years ago for putting, wanting to put some shading and I still don’t, I still think that that’s a good idea that we should, that that topic should be looked at. I don’t necessarily look at putting it in the CIP again in the next 5 years but you know this year the weather was really good and so we probably didn’t have a lot of complaints from the. Hoffman: Performers. Scharfenberg: Performers that were here but you know this was probably a cool summer and you’re going to have those hot summers and having something available for that particular area I think on a long term basis if we’re going to keep, if we’re going to keep the concerts there would be beneficial so I’d still like us, for us as a commission to keep that kind of on our radar long term if we’re going to keep the concerts there. It is a, it is a very nice setting. It’s intimate to the extent that you can get you know the right crowd there and service a lot of people and so I think that this survey kind of bears all of that out. Kelly: Yeah I would tend to agree. It’s the perfect spot, especially the way you can sit there. You’ve got the different levels going up and the little hill there. Makes it very nice. I would agree with you. It’s a great place to have it and I do think you’re right. People do like to come into their downtown and I would rather go to a city park than go to Lake Ann for a concert to be honest with you. Hougham: So the only one I attended was the children’s performance which was a big hit with my daughter so thank you for that. One comment I had about the time I think that I filled out on 27 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 my survey was moving the kids’ concert, the evening one to 6:30 just because of the early bedtimes and things like that. I just didn’t know if you had any other comments similar to that or? Rimestad: We didn’t, we had 2 other comments about making the concerts for the kids earlier but also they’re, just getting back from daycare or some families that we spoke with just from that time so earlier would be, might be beneficial. And then we also do provide the afternoon concert as well for the kids. Hougham: For the afternoon concert I wasn’t at that one due to work but was that well attended? Rimestad: I was not there as well. Hoffman: It was well attended. And it’s a morning. Hougham: Because that was a Thursday. Hoffman: It’s a morning concert. It’s 11:00. 11:00 yeah. Favro: It’s 11:00 to noon and we sent out a schedule of the concert series to local daycares in the area. We did have some just kind of walk down the street… Hougham: Sure, have you ever tried or considered doing it on Fridays? A lot of people. Hoffman: The whole concert series? Hougham: No, no. Just the children’s day concert. Hoffman: Okay. Hougham: Just a lot of people work summer hours so if they were working parents they could come. Hoffman: Good idea. Hougham: Friday, you know 11:00-12:00. Make that work. And the question about the shading. So I thought about that too when I was at the concert. It was sunny like the 7:00 to 8:00 time, like the sun is going down so the people viewing the concert have a really nice view because the sun’s behind them but the people singing were up there like squinting away like what kind of shade could we even do? That would shade them because if you put something right over them it’s still going to like come directly on them. Hoffman: Yeah, the proposal was 4 poles and it has top shading and then it has a side shade as well. It wouldn’t be 100 percent. They would have to seek out the shade areas. Most of the 28 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 time they wear sunglasses and yeah it’s right in their face and yeah it provides nice viewing. Better than the other way around I think. Hougham: Yeah it was enjoyable for us to watch but. Hoffman: Yeah and they love sunglasses, performers so but yeah to that point yeah the sun’s going down. Hougham: Yeah so just wondering what was even available for that. Hoffman: Yeah it’s going to have to be, it would be those 4 flying poles with the shade structures and then there was going to be a side tie as well. Thunberg: Is there any thought or would we be able to keep the survey going for a while online just to keep it available? We could, the City could send it out on the Facebook page even after the concert series is done for the summer and a couple months into the fall just to continue to get feedback? Rimestad: Yes we added the online survey mid July and we haven’t closed that yet. Hoping for more feedback so we’ll keep that open for the fall then and on until we decide not to. Hoffman: Commissioners what I found is this is a great validation of what is happening, people enjoy and you know there’s no better thing than that is to continue to let people know that they can be comfortable bringing their beer and wine if they would like to so they can enjoy that if they care to. People love that they can get in and get out. It’s proved to be a successful event and I think we just keep going and we’ve got a big job to get next year’s entertainment. That plays a role in how good the entertainment is for the cost. KleinBank is really excited and really enthused about this. They love the event. They love that it’s right across the street from their business and they’re there every night passing out those water bottles and making more friends due to the concert series and so you know again this is another event that did not receive rave support when it was rolled out at the city level and now that we have 300-400 people there a concert, people tend to support it so I think it’s one of those things where if the residents are going to enjoy it and come out and support it then people get behind it so thanks Landon. Nice job. Rimestad: You’re welcome. Hoffman: And you met a lot of people and took a lot of surveys and thanks to Commissioner Scharfenberg for bringing up the idea. The Arboretum they are looking at their own amphitheater. Probably about a 600 seater so they’re, you know they have it in a master plan so I think they’ll be fine in the future when they construct that and that will hold large concerts and you know that will all be a different program. Much different than what we have going on here on a Thursday night and potentially a Friday afternoon. 29 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Scharfenberg: And I just want to say thanks to Brent too for kind of percolating this discussion amongst us. I think it was a good thing for us to look at. I would like to see something bigger for our community. Along with that I think ultimately though we would probably need a partner to do that and I think if we ever get that partner we could probably build something nice at Lake Ann or something like that. But thank you for bringing that forward. Kelly: Landon, nice report. Thank you very much. Rimestad: You’re welcome. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: 2015 KLEINBANK SUMMER CONCERT SERIES EVALUATION. Kelly: Moving right along we’re getting into the recreation programs. Oh my gosh, we’re talking KleinBank again. Katie. Favro: Thank you. So the 2015 KleinBank Summer Concert Series presented by the City of Chanhassen featured 8 outdoor concerts at City Center Park plaza. Kind of a brief overview of everything Landon just talked about but we did have one less concert this year than last year due to the rain. We actually had to cancel twice. We cancelled Zachery Scott Johnson and Jillian Ray. We were able to make up Zachery Scott Johnson at the end of the concerts and then we have rescheduled Jillian Ray to be our first concert next year so we got her on the books already. General attendance was about 250 people per show. Our last concert that was a rain out that we had to reschedule was probably our lowest one and I don’t know if that was due to the artist, the type of music or just not being able to broadcast it out to people because they’ve already had the schedule for so long. So KleinBank again was a sponsor, our title sponsor for this event. They had a sponsorship of $2,500 and it’s greatly appreciated. It helps us get new and upcoming bands and even spend a little bit more money on higher up, maybe well known bands. This really helps us kind of keep it at low minimum costs for us and then we did have our 2 summer, or our 2 kids’ concerts that we talked about. And then each time the staff sold concessions. Popcorn was our biggest seller. We ended up selling more, or we ended up making more than $421. This was before we had the last concert. We made another like $35 at that concert so the number is actually higher than that. Our suggestions for 2016 is pretty much keep everything that we’re doing and keep it going strong. To continue to work with KleinBank. Continue to contract local bands. Selling snacks. Maybe even looking into the possibility of somebody coming out for that and see if they have like a concession stand they would be willing to do. I don’t know if that’s worth them to come every Thursday night for a total of $460 but it’s worth looking into. And then we want to keep offering interactive music shows for kids and then keep providing local daycares with the schedule so they know and they can schedule it around that. Kelly: I think if you bring out a concessionaire with ice cream he might have a lot higher sales. Favro: Yes. Kelly: Questions for Katie? 30 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 Favro: Here we go. Now you can see me. Landon was in this chair before so he had to push it all the way down. Hoffman: There’s a height difference? Favro: Just a little bit. Just an inch or two. Kelly: I think as we discussed with Landon is that we’re all thrilled with the KleinBank Series and the partnership and it’s a great program and thanks for all the lining up you do and keep up the good work. Thank you Katie. Favro: Thank you. 2015 FALL ADULT SOFTBALL LEAGUE REPORT. Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Kelly. Just a quick update on the fall softball. We are playing games th on Thursday nights out at Lake Ann Park so we started the 6 week season on August 20 with that so we have 10 teams participating in the fall league which is a 4 team increase from 2014. So we started that. They’re double headers in format out there so people are enjoying the fall weather so far. We have just one week under our belt here but we’re going to start games again here Thursday nights so we’re playing on Lake Ann fields number 4, 5 and 6 for that so it’s just an opportunity to enjoy the fall season. Get 12 extra games in out there and have some fun with your friends and co-workers so it’s going well so far. It will end late September. Kelly: So Jerry I know in the past you’ve had to get on the phone and try and get teams organized. You’re up 4 teams this year. Why is that happening? Ruegemer: I guess for a variety of reasons. You know there’s always teams that are looking to try other communities in the fall. We’ve kind of happened to hit that this year certainly with that people like the double header formats where maybe other communities might not be doing double headers so I will gladly accept all the teams. Hoffman: You stole teams from other communities is what you’re saying? Ruegemer: Potentially but. Kelly: Good job. Ruegemer: I don’t actively seek that but sometimes it happens that way. Kelly: Good. Thank you. Any other questions for Jerry? Before we move onto the administrative section I, on my walks I’ve discovered we’ve made some changes to, is it the Riley Creek trail where we’ve redone some of the asphalt. I know we had a big machine under 31 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 there for a while and we redid it and I noticed that it’s still closed even though it looks like it’s done to me. Hoffman: Underpass on Highway 5? Kelly: Underpass on Highway 5. I know we redid, that’s an area where we’ve had a lot of water problems. That’s one of my walking ways and I’ve always meant to bring up the water problem and you kind of forget about it once you’re done with it and I noticed you guys did it this year. Beers: Correct. The streets department helped out with that project…basically changed a bunch of grading on the bottom side of the trail…so just trying to piecemeal things back together… Unfortunately everybody’s a little back logged right now so this morning we put snow fence up. We kept the trail closed assuming that we were going to get a little quicker response time and…so that was my decision to kind of take the safety route but we pulled barricades down today… Kelly: It looks like a really positive fix. Since it’s one of my walking ways I was very happy to see that so nice job. Thank you. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Kelly: Todd anything in the administrative section you want to point out to us? Hoffman: Primarily the picnic evaluations. I think those are very worth while to read and to go through and another thing of note, Dance for Fun kicking off with its open houses at the Chanhassen Recreation Center. And then something to watch is that Lake Waconia Regional Park master plan, that’s taking place tonight and that’s a dual function. It’s not just Coney Island but it’s also for the regional, future regional park. Lake Waconia Regional Park so keep an eye on that. And if you talk to anybody on the County Park Board or County staff or a County Commissioner let them know what your thoughts are about that regional park. That’s a Carver County facility which is obviously open to Chanhassen residents. Boettcher: You know on top of that actually the County Commissioners went out and took a tour of Coney Island today. They have a technical committee that’s working on the planning stages and hoping by 2017 to have something, actually have pontoon boat rides back and forth from Town Marina to Coney Island. If you ever read up on it, I’m on the Carver County Park Commission too, there’s a lot of history on that island. Actually you’ve heard of the Great Dakota War I think it was called. 1860 to allow the settlers in the area actually went to Coney Island for safety reasons and then all the construction that went on there back in the 20’s and 30’s and they were going to make it like the original Coney Island so it’s had a lot of history. Be interesting when it’s part of the park and it was a great million dollar gift from the owners just to give it to the County and said here, take it. So it’s a great deal. Scharfenberg: Todd I think I saw something that Jodi sent out. There’s going to be what an open house or something in October out at the rec center. 32 Park and Recreation Commission – August 25, 2015 th Hoffman: For? Oh 20 anniversary. Scharfenberg: Yeah. Hoffman: Yes. Scharfenberg: And when is that? Hoffman: Yet to be determined. Ruegemer: Yeah I think in October sometime. th Hoffman: Yeah they’re working on the date with the school district. So it’s the 20 anniversary of the Chan Rec Center and Bluff Creek Elementary so they’ll be celebrating. We’ll be celebrating that anniversary and we’ll get you those details when they’re available. Kelly: Thank you. Good meeting tonight everybody and with that said I’ll. Carron moved, Boettcher seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned at 9:15 p.m. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 33