PC 2015 12 01
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 1, 2015
Chairman Aller called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Andrew Aller, John Tietz, Nancy Madsen, Steve Weick, and Maryam
Yusuf
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Mark Undestad, and Lisa Hokkanen
STAFF PRESENT:
Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director; and Bob Generous,
Senior Planner
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Walter Treat Chanhassen
PUBLIC HEARING:
BETHEL FELLOWSHIP CHURCH, PLANNING CASE 2015-24: REQUEST FOR AN
INTERIM USE PERMIT TO OPERATE A CHURCH ON PROPERTY ZONED
INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK (IOP) AND LOCATED AT 1252 PARK ROAD.
APPLICANT: JONATHAN WALL. OWNER: CORE MINNEAPOLIS INDUSTRIAL
PORTFOLIO, ET AL.
Generous: Thank you Chairman, commissioners. Planning Case 2015-24 is the applicant is
John Wall. He’s the pastor with the church. Beacon Management Company is a Management
Company for the building that they’re locating in. Again this is the public hearing. It will go to
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the City Council on December 14. The request is for an interim use permit to permit a church
to operate in an industrial office park district. The IOP District permits churches as interim uses.
The reason is they want to allow churches to be able to grow so that they’re viable to have, large
enough to get their own facilities and as part of our recommendation we’re putting a threshold of
the number of adult memberships that would be permitted before they would have to move out of
this facility. In conjunction with the church there is an adult daycare. The IOP district permits
daycares as an accessory, a permitted accessory use. However it also permits daycares as a
separate use as a conditional use permit and we may be having one of those in the not too distant
future. The property is located at 1252 Park Road. It’s in the Chanhassen Lakes Business Park
which is just south of Highway 5 inbetween Audubon and Highway 101. Or Galpin Boulevard.
It’s Lot 2, Block 4. It’s actually this building crosses two property lines, Lots 1 and 2. This
specific unit is on the east side of the building which is in Lot 2. It’s located on the east end of
the building and there’s a lot of common area in this so we’re only as part of their approval
looking at their specific unit space. This subdivision was developed in the 1990’s and again the
applicable code, conditional use permits we, for interim use we following the conditional use
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
permit standards. Additionally we’re following the IOP District regulations. Again the total
building is 56,000 square feet. Their unit, they’re proposing approximately 2,900 square feet
which is on the northeast corner of the building. It’s separated by a common hallway that runs
down the middle and I have provided a separate one. Currently this 2,900 square feet represents
5 percent of the building. In the future they would like to, the ability to expand slightly to meet
the membership needs within the confines of once they hit the total adult membership they
would be looking for a separate permanent facility. We’ve tried to, in this one break, go closer
on the total layout of the building. I should point out that this wall is not there right now so this
is one big classroom space. They have a couple offices and 3 classrooms that they use. This
area is for putting together food and as part of the adult daycare they will have food brought in.
Catered into the site and then they’ll put them together and then provide it to the clients in this
area. Again the adult daycare must meet state licensing requirements and staffing requirements.
It’s a 1 staff person for every 6 adult members and so they do, and that would be their licensing.
That’s the maximum that they’d have at this facility. They come in later for a separate approval
should the church move out. They would either have to get their own conditional use permit or
they can look at another facility. Monday through Saturday the uses would be the office space
for the church facility. Monday through Friday from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. would be the adult
daycare facility would be in place. Sunday they would have of course their church services. In
the future they would like to expand their programming to do the Wednesday evening programs
but at the present time they don’t have the, aren’t doing that. They’re just trying to let us know
that that’s part of the expansion that they’re looking at. Staff is recommending approval of the
interim use permit. The sunset date, the approval is specified in code we need to give initial
approval for 2 years and then they report to the City that they’re, they meet the health safety
requirements, that there’s sufficient parking on site and that their membership is still under the
threshold. As part of the Arboretum Business Park we did do a study on, to see what size was a
viability. In that development the criteria was either 6 percent of the, limited to 6 percent of the
building and it was a slightly bigger building and 200 adult members. In this instance I was
relying on the applicants more to see that 150 adult members they felt that they would be viable
to go out into their own facility so that’s what we’ve incorporated as conditions of approval and
the sunset date for the use of this building. Really the basic criteria are that they meet building,
health and safety codes and fire codes. In this instance it meant that they had to provide panic
hardware on the doors so people can get our easily and for the adult daycare they need to provide
some type of a fire alarm system. With that we’re recommending approval and adoption of the
Findings of Fact and Recommendation. I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Aller: Questions, Commissioner Weick.
Weick: Yeah, if the request is for 5 percent would growth in the future be limited to that
remaining 1 percent of the building?
Generous: Right without coming back to amend the IUP.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Weick: And could they separate the church from the adult daycare and thus have greater than 6
percent?
Generous: No because their use is.
Weick: No.
Generous: The adult daycare is an ancillary use to the church use.
Weick: Okay.
Generous: So the church, the daycare could go and come in for their own conditional use permit
in a different part of the building. There’s no specific limitations in the code on either the size or
the duration of that. A conditional use may go on forever.
Weick: Okay.
Generous: The interim use has a sunset date and that’s where the, both the size and the
membership come into play.
Weick: Okay.
Tietz: Bob the adult daycare appears to be a sublet tenant of the church.
Generous: Yes.
Tietz: Are they affiliated at all with the church and does the landlord, obviously the landlord has
to approve a sublet tenancy. Has that been?
Generous: That would, the applicant would be better to answer that.
Tietz: Okay.
Generous: I don’t believe they’re specifically affiliated with them. They work, right now
they’re in Eden Prairie and they’re in another church facility and they’re trying to come here.
Tietz: And the food prep, it’s all catered so there’s no need for any of the requirements, the
licensing requirements for food preparation on site as far as stainless steel countertops and
there’s no ovens or ranges in the facility?
Generous: That’s correct. There’s no preparation of meals on the facility. It’s just basically
taking out of the packages and distributing to the clientele.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Aanenson: If I can clarify one thing too. They’re still required through the State Public Health,
they still have to apply for a license which they have. We’re just holding that license and
approval of that until they’ve gone through our’s so they will also get inspected by the State and
that’s part of our condition that they maintain that.
Tietz: Yeah because labeling a room as a kitchen puts it in a whole different category.
Aanenson: Right so they have to clear that with the State and they’ll do the inspection on that
part too.
Tietz: Okay.
Aller: What are the other users right now in the building, if any?
Generous: Office, warehouse, some manufacturing. Light manufacturing. Assembly type uses.
This, I think this, I think this specific unit was for a dance studio at one time.
Aller: And then for clarification we’re allowing for a use by approving this motion?
Generous: That’s correct.
Aller: We’re not requiring that they even proceed and that would be up to the potential tenant,
the applicant and the landlord.
Generous: Correct. Commissioner Madsen.
Madsen: Is the building ADA compliant so we can clarify that if any of the adult daycare guests
were in wheelchairs that they would have adequate access.
Generous: I believe so. I’m not positive on that. It’s a one level building so they don’t, you
don’t have the stairs. I believe the panic hardware’s going to help for accessibility.
Madsen: And the automatic doors, that sorts of thing?
Generous: I don’t know if they have that.
John Wall: No. Well the bathrooms have automatic doors. I’m not, I don’t believe they’re
working but it is, well part of the daycare coming in.
Aller: So why don’t we just go ahead and open up for the applicant to come forward.
Madsen: Yeah sorry.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
John Wall: Yeah I just didn’t know.
Madsen: Yeah sorry.
Aller: Why don’t you come up state your name and address for the record and your
representational capacity.
John Wall: I’m John Wall. I’m the Pastor of Bethel Fellowship and.
Aller: Welcome Pastor Wall.
John Wall: Yes the, forgot the question now. Just got.
Generous: ADA.
Aller: We’re talking about ADA accessibility.
John Wall: Oh yeah. No when Kathleen came in to see if the building would work for her adult
daycare she had to have it inspected by multiple different levels and so it has, she can’t use it
unless it meets all of the legal requirements so I’m, as she’s proceeding I’m sure that it is.
Aanenson: If I can clarify that again. So there’s a State requirement, our Fire Marshal and our
Fire Department have been out there to inspect it as well as building inspector so there’s some
things that they have to do to be compliant. That’s part of all the licensing requirements.
Madsen: Okay, thank you.
John Wall: You’re welcome.
Aller: So Pastor tell us about your congregation. What are your plans?
John Wall: Well I started in January and we’re hoping to just be something that is meaningful to
the community. We want to, we want to help, really my goal is to help people grow in their
lives. You know when Jesus taught his disciples to pray he said may your will be done on earth
as it is in heaven and so I just want to see that we do God’s will here on earth and you know in
heaven no one’s sick. No one’s alone. No one’s any of those things and so we want to work
however we can to see that happen and we’re here and so we want to be the best citizens of
Chanhassen that we can be. The best citizens of the state and it seemed like a really good fit for
this adult daycare to be a part of what we do because we want to care for people. The founding
pastor Jim Bledsoe, his father-in-law actually goes to the daycare. That’s how we first were
connected with them and this is our spot and we’re here for now and so we just want to be a
good church.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Aller: And the shared parking is that going to be?
John Wall: No because the businesses in the building they’re basically all Monday through
Friday where our biggest use is Sunday morning so the parking lot isn’t an issue. In fact in the
picture you see there’s an awful lot of spaces on our side so we’re okay.
Aller: Great. Any additional questions? Commissioner Yusuf.
Yusuf: Will there be signage just pointing people to your facility site?
John Wall: Right now we have like a little you know plastic sign. If we do do anything signage
wise I know it has to comply with whatever the codes are. I believe just based on other places
we’re allowed to have big silver letters that match everything else if we would do that. I think
anyway, that’s just what some of the other businesses have. I’ve seen others have decals in their
windows but as of right now we don’t have any plans for signage. I’m not saying in the future
we wouldn’t. It’s just, this is all kind of new to me so I’m just.
Aanenson: If I could give the Planning Commission a little bit more frame of reference. So this
is the first one we’ve done as far as a adult daycare so we’re treating it the same as we would if it
was a daycare except for the fact that because this has going into a church use, which already has
a conditional use, as Bob stated it’s ancillary. But we have daycares in industrial parks. Little
bit different you know when you have peak time drop offs. We’re assuming that some of your
clients may be there part of the day. Some you know they may be there all day but a little bit
different than daycare where you have kind of more peak morning, peak evening drop offs so
those are the things under the interim use that we’re monitoring to make sure we don’t anticipate
a problem but that’s what we’re monitoring. But we’re going to see different iterations of adult
daycares coming forward. You’re going to see, we’ve got another application in too in different
areas so what they’re trying to do is find places that work for them. In this case they found a
church to host kind of an outreach service but there’s going to be different variations of that
coming forward that you’ll see some other variations of the same theme. Adult daycare.
John Wall: What she said.
Aller: Any additional questions?
Aanenson: It’s education for everybody.
Aller: Okay thank you.
John Wall: Thank you.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Aller: At this point in time we’ll open up the public hearing portion of this item. If anyone
wishes to come forward and speak either for or against the item they can do so at this time.
Seeing no one come forward I will close the public hearing portion and open it up for comment.
Any comments or discussion? I think it’s a good use of an underutilized property.
Madsen: Complimentary use.
Aller: And shared parking in the downtown has always been allowed for these uses and we have
that additional hard cover down there so it’s good that it’s actually being used and utilized.
Tietz: I’m assuming that if you go to Wednesday night services or activities in the church, I
don’t know how that parking lot is lit. If it’s appropriate for night time activities. Sometimes
those lights go pretty low when it’s a non-business daytime and then security, I don’t know if
that’s a card access building. I didn’t try to go through it but if it’s, how it’s accessible on an
after hours. It’s more for my information I guess than a concern.
John Wall: Well our doors are not card access. There’s a dance studio right behind us and I
don’t think they’re card access either. There are some doors on the other side that are card
access.
Tietz: That’s what I was, I was curious about the outside access and how, if that’s going to be
limited at after hours. Most business parks are limited after hours and.
John Wall: And I believe there’s parking lot but I’ve never really paid, I mean I’ve never, I
honestly can’t answer. I haven’t paid attention but I can always find my keys so there must be
something helping me.
Tietz: Thanks.
Aller: Thank you Pastor. I think the lighting is a good question and I think that they’ll raise that
with the landlord with the accessibility. Those are items that they’ll still be working out and
what’s before us right now is the actual use and whether or not it’s an appropriate use for this
structure and the combined use and getting the two... With that I’ll entertain a motion.
Yusuf: The Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends the City Council approve the
Interim Use Permit for a church use in the industrial office building located at 1252 Park Road
subject to the conditions of approval and adopts the Findings of Fact and Recommendation.
Aller: I have a motion. Do I have a second?
Madsen: Second.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Aller: Having a motion from Commissioner Yusuf, seconded by Commissioner Madsen. Any
additional discussion?
Yusuf moved, Madsen seconded that the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends
the City Council approve the Interim Use Permit for a church use in the industrial office
building located at 1252 Park Road subject to the following conditions and adopts the
Findings of Fact and Recommendation:
1. Building permit(s) required for alterations necessary to provide code-compliant exiting
for an assembly occupancy (church).
2. Once the use is permitted, the applicant will need to apply for a building permit for
building code changes and a fire permit for the proposed adult day care.
3. The applicant shall be issued a two-year Interim Use Permit (IUP). The IUP may be
extended thereafter subject to the applicant demonstrating adequate parking, life safety,
and adequate occupancy. The applicant must annually in December report its adult
membership.
4. The church may not occupy more than six percent of the building (3,360 square feet).
5. The interim use shall terminate and the church shall be required to relocate from the
building once its adult membership exceeds 150.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
PUBLIC HEARING:
CITY CODE AMENDMENTS: CONSIDER AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 18,
SUBDIVISION AND CHAPTER 20, ZONING, OF THE CHANHASSEN CITY CODE.
Generous: Thank you Chairman, Commissioners. We brought, some of these items to you back
in September and we just had an informal discussion and then in October we took it to City
Council and in the interim we did additional research and study, especially on the parking issues
and that’s the more, most significant changes we’re making in here. While we have a report it’s
really easiest to review the actual ordinance to see what the changes are and so that’s an
attachment and in Section 1 we’re actually amending the subdivision ordinance and the City by
policy has been requiring that developers put wetlands into either outlots or separate lots or have
drainage and utility easements and we just wanted to clarify as part of an ordinance that that is
really acceptable and something that developers should be forewarned if you will that the City
may look at that. Not all of them will be that way but it depends really on the quality of it and so
we’re making the change to Section 18-78(b)(11) just to add that wetlands may also be protected
under, either through dedication or some other easement requirement. And then the rest of these
changes are to the zoning ordinance which is Chapter 20 of the code. Section 2 deals with
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
actually the powers of the Planning Commission as the Board of Appeals and Adjustments.
State law was changed a few years ago to go from undue hardship to practical difficulty as the,
one of the findings that needs to be made. We changed it under the Finding requirements but not
under the powers of the Board and so we’re making that change now so we’re consistent. Section
3 of this ordinance amendment is, deals with Section 20-91(a) which is our zoning permit
requirements. The beginning of this year’s building code was, the State building code was
changed to require that building permits were only for structures over 200 square feet in area.
We had 120 square feet so we’re making that change. Additionally we discovered that we didn’t
mention that retaining walls under 4 feet in height need to have a zoning permit review because
really we treat it a lot like fences and if they’re under 6 feet they have to go through the zoning
permit so. Again it’s just more to clarify to people what some of the standards are. On page 2 of
the ordinance Section 4 deals with Section 20-122 which is our site plan requirements. We
require that developers provide security for completion of improvements on the site. Drainage.
Landscaping and so we’ve taken the language from the subdivision requirements and basically
adopted it into the site plan review requirements. Explain that yes the City will be taking
security for these improvements and if you want to get your money back this is the procedures
that you need to follow and so again it’s more to clarify to people as they’re coming through the
process what our requirements will be. Section 5 deals with Section 20-616, Sub-section 1 of the
code and it was just, we believe an error in typing and it references Article IV when it really
should reference Article III and so this deals with having private stables on the property and so
we just clarified that. Section 6 of the ordinance deals with Section 20-1001, Sub-section 3 and
it deals with where people may have farm animals, specifically we get a lot of requests for may I
have a chicken on our property. Well under current city ordinance you have to look in 3 separate
places to determine where you can do that. We’re trying to provide it all in one location that it
can be permitted in areas that allow farm animals which is, are zoned A2 which permits an
agricultural use and also that you need at least 10 acres of land. Again what we’re trying to do is
put in one place what you can find in 3 separate places of the ordinance and so that’s a
clarification on that. The rest of this deals with parking and design standards. Section 7 of the
ordinance deals with 20-1117, Sub-section 3 and it’s, we wanted to provide criteria for when
shared parking opportunity may be provided and what different, what are the uses that we can
look at to allow that. During the research we found out nationally that at 10 to 30 percent of
shared parking is sort of a norm that we had. The specific language we looked at was in
Brooklyn Center I believe, or Brooklyn Park and they allowed up to 50 percent. We were going
with more the national standard and the more conservative that you can only provide up to 30
percent of the parking for a use through a shared parking opportunity. In Sub-section F we say,
it points out which are the complimentary uses if you will so that if you’re this use, you can
provide parking for these other uses so a little clarification on that. We don’t get a lot of it but
we do, an example where we do have a lot of shared parking is within Village on the Ponds
which has a church facility. It has daytime uses. It has nighttime uses and so it’s a really good
mix but through that we’re able to reduce the total number of, total overall parking that we have
in a development and reduce the stormwater runoff and hard cover within a project so as the city
continues to grow we’ll be allowed to do this. The Quadrant would be a great example and also
when we get down to Flying Cloud Drive so. Section 8 of the ordinance deals with Section 20-
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
1117, Sub-section 4 which again is a shared parking opportunities. Section 9 of the ordinance,
did I repeat that? Was one that came up recently. We’ve had some properties, it deals with
driveway grades. If they’re over 10 percent or greater they need to come for a variance process.
We believe this is better handled administratively. We had one variance I think it was a year ago
or year and a half ago on Lake Minnewashta and if you know the area there, they’re very steep
slopes to all those properties on the east side of lake and it’s hard, it’s more, this is a type of
variance that only affects the individual property, not adjacent properties so we believe that we
would like through the ordinance to allow the City Engineer to review this and determine
whether or not they should be allowed to deviate from our 10 percent grade. And also they put
in some of the extenuating circumstances which is something the city attorney wanted to make
sure that we have some criteria in there so people know that this is what we’ll be looking at when
you come in to get a deviation. Section 10 of the ordinance deals with Section 20-1124(r) which
are specific parking requirements. When we calculate parking we usually base it on square
footage. In this instance we noticed that fast food was specified as a separate use but it had the
same standard. However in our study of other communities we saw that for fast food uses there
are differences and a lot of the reason for that difference is up to 50 or 60 percent of the business
of a restaurant can be handled through fast food. Well what if you have people in the drive thru
they’re not parking and going into the building so we’re seeing over parking on that and so we’re
proposing that we use a different standard if you have a drive thru window as part of your
restaurant. Again if you have a straight fast food with no drive thru you would meet the same
standards as any other restaurant. And so I was looking through, one of the attachments is a
survey I did of other communities. It’s that spreadsheet and at least 4 of the communities did
have that specification depending on the type of restaurant use it was. And then finally Section
11 deals with our shopping center. Section 20-1124, Sub-section 2(v). Shopping centers
provide, because of the mix of uses we have there’s one standard in place. However we had,
recently we’ve had some centers, small centers that have come in. Multi-use buildings and they
have restaurant use in them and we believe they’re under parked using the parking standards for
the shopping center. What we’re proposing is that if the restaurants present only 25 percent of
the total building area there would be no difference. We’d treat it all as a shopping center. One
per 200. If the center provides 25 to 50 percent of the building has as restaurant uses, then for
that percentage of the building they would need to increase the parking to one space per 100
square feet of building area. And then if the restaurant use is over 50 percent of the building that
portion that’s over the 50 percent would provide parking at a ratio of one space per whatever the
restaurant standard is. So if it’s a new drive thru that comes in they would need the one per 80.
If it’s a sit down standard restaurant it would be one per 60. If it has a liquor license it would be
one per 50. So that we believe, and I did an analysis on what the changes would mean to these
recently approved developed properties. It increased parking slightly but we believe that may be
sufficient to meet the additional demand so with that staff is recommending approval of adoption
of the ordinance and I’d be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Aanenson: If I could just add a couple comments on what Bob just presented. So what we
looked at with the parking standards, and as Bob did the survey and looking at our analysis we
felt like what we require for a standard restaurant we over parked and often times they may be in
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
locations where they can provide additional overflow parking. For example Noodles has got
Target right next to it so if they over flowed you wouldn’t know. There’s other places where
there isn’t an opportunity to overflow. They’d be in the public street or with the like so what we
looked at is maybe reducing that number and increasing when you have a smaller strip center
with 2 restaurants that require a lot more parking and it’s not just customer parking. If you have
fast casual as opposed to drive thru which is different dynamics as we’re learning, as we’re
getting more of these, it’s a lot of the workers on shift change and how you manage all that. So
we really want to position ourselves as we’re getting more of these to better accommodate what
the needs really are out there so talking to a lot of the end users of how they determine their’s
and going back and looking at that comparing to other communities. As we found out people are
all over the map on that. There’s a lot of people that completely under park and it really depends
on kind of your city and how you can operate if you have more, often more urbanized. If you
said in Chaska they probably use more on street parking as opposed to here where we really
don’t have as much of that. You try to find that common. We know there are people that are
parking at the parking ramp and walking to work so those sort of things so we just wanted to
adjust that as we know other projects are coming forward. And then secondly I just want to give
a little bit more information on the driveway grade. Typically we don’t like to acquiesce the
variation process but we’re kind of putting people through a hurdle that seems unnecessary
where you have a steep driveway and in order to make it switchback or the like to get just under
that 10 percent it may force them into a hard cover issue. A variance so then it’s like what, what
is the lesser or 2 evils there? In looking at what the engineering, if we’re talking just that 1
percent and they feel comfortable if they can get the touchdown point on the bottom of the
driveway, you know that you’ve got some of that. That we felt that that would be better than
trying to always put somebody through a process. Not that we get that many of them but it’s, we
do have 1 or 2 right now that are kind of in that process and rather than spend 2 months and a lot
of time trying to figure that out, if we can just engineer it with some criteria. Obviously if they
don’t agree with those standards they still would have the right to go through the appeal process
but that was really our intent with that one so thank you Chair. I just wanted to clarify those.
Aller: Thank you.
Tietz: And Kate and Bob I have a question regarding that driveway grade. Does that apply only
to individuals like if I came in as a property owner and my driveway was severe? How does it,
let’s say a developer comes in with a 25 unit plan and you know 15 of those because of the
topography in that particular site exceed the criteria.
Aanenson: That’s a great question because that’s our job as we’re approving a subdivision that
we look at the grade and they need to show us that when it comes in.
Tietz: Okay.
Aanenson: Typically these are on lots of record.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Tietz: Yeah.
Aanenson: We have some in Carver Beach. As Bob said in Minnewashta. It’s those existing
lots of record or if you do have a driveway right now and let’s say you wanted to do an addition
to your house and because of that addition you need to change up your driveway. That’s really
what the intent is because when a subdivision comes in our goal is to see the finished floor
elevation and they should show us all the driveway pitches on that. As a matter of fact now on
all newer homes we do require that they go back and shoot the grade so we know that they’re
within standards so.
Tietz: Okay, thanks.
Aanenson: Good question.
Aller: How do we deal with the stormwater drainage issues that might be raised by
differentiating the hard cover?
Aanenson: Right well I think the reason that engineering would put on, you know where they
are on hard cover, let’s say they’re close but typically it’s, I don’t know if they’d necessarily be
over the hard cover. The hard cover sometimes comes in when you’re trying to make the
driveway longer and let’s say you’re close. It’s a lot of record for in Carver Beach example,
some of those are already may be close to the 15 or undersized. We do have a standard that says
if you’re at the 75 percent standard then you can go forward so it doesn’t necessarily mean
there’s a hard cover issue. What we’re saying on why we don’t want to force them into a
variance is by making a driveway try to meet the 10 percent that we sometimes force people into
that, that situation. But certainly that would be a condition that the engineering department
would look at when reviewing these to make sure they’re adequately addressing that. I think the
biggest issue, we just want to make sure on days like last night that you have somebody that can
get up their driveway and they’re not blocking the street for snowplowing and the like so a lot of
the challenge is getting that flat spot at the bottom of the driveway so.
Aller: Any additional questions?
Tietz: I have a question regarding a free standing restaurant. Let’s say that is Axel’s came in
today, how does the, how do the new standards, would it be the 200 then? Or do you use seating
area versus staff? You know if some restaurants are relatively small and their kitchen is may be
you know a quarter of that size but the seating area is driving the number of in and out people.
The staff obviously is another thing so it’s always the gross area of the.
Generous: Of the building.
Tietz: The useable area or the gross area?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Generous: Gross.
Aanenson: We do the gross.
Tietz: Okay. Would Axel’s or the old I remember the Riviera.
Aanenson: That actually is a shared parking arrangement.
Tietz: That’s a shared parking?
Aanenson: That’s a shared parking. That’s the City’s.
Tietz: Oh there’s that office isn’t there.
Aanenson: And the back with the Medical Arts building, that’s all a shared parking. That’s the
challenge we have when projects come in, there’s shared parking. It’s what really this, what
precipitated this amendment is now we’re doing a couple projects that are redevelopment sites
that there isn’t an opportunity to spillover so we’re seeing more of those and yeah.
Generous: And that instance it would be that shared parking lot that we had. Those are the
complimentary type uses. You have the office and then you have the.
Tietz: But if there were, if a proposal came in for a free standing on an independent lot where no
shared parking is available, it could restrict the size of the restaurant if you have to provide
parking to accommodate it and your acreage is only so much.
Aanenson: That’s correct.
Tietz: Is that correct?
Aanenson: That’s correct.
Generous: That’s correct.
Aanenson: So the other out is you can always appeal and we have done some interpretation on
those. If they can give us, and again we’re meeting with some of these operators now. Getting a
lot of great information on how they track. If they have a drive thru, what percentage. Is it night
time? Is it day time? What are their peaks for sit downs and so those are the analects that we’re
looking at to try to make some of our decisions and certainly if there’s something that we hadn’t
anticipated when they come through the process they would always have the right to go for a
variance. The challenge is, once you approve a building in there it can always change out. So
you can say this is how I operate but in 5 years it could be a different one so you just try to hit
that middle ground and then people figure out how to navigate that.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Tietz: Well good research. It was a good read, thanks Bob.
Aller: Yes and for those of you either in the audience or at home that want to have a good read
you can go to the City’s website. The transparency site and take a look at all our Minutes and all
the packages that are provided to us before the meeting so that you can be prepared to watch
along or to come down and comment on anything before us. Commissioner Madsen.
Madsen: So I have a follow up question to that statement. So if a shopping center is approved
with a certain percentage restaurant parking then down the road when the tenants change over,
say they pick up another restaurant or two, does something in that process trigger that they have
to come to the City?
Aanenson: Yes. Typically when it changes out they would need to get a building permit. At
that point we would tell them there’s insufficient parking, yeah. We do not, we have business
licensing but we would test it that way because sometimes if they’re a PUD we restrict that to the
number of restaurants. Otherwise it’s driven by the fact that they couldn’t, so for example the
one on, that we just approved on Great Plains Center, that one has 2 restaurants. It would be
pretty difficult to get another restaurant in there. But Villages on the Pond, those would be more
fluid as far as, you know we anticipated some other tenant uses where we got Hurricanes and
Davanni’s and there’s going to be another restaurant in there but that parking works differently.
We have a huge pivot table for the downtown Dinner Theater parking lot. We’ve got everything
in the matrix. Peak hours so it’s kind of an Excel spreadsheet so we keep track of things that
way. Again you have different peak hours at the Dinner Theater so those are, so every site is
unique but we’ve got, we have some coming in now that don’t fall within that category. We
want to make sure that we’re not creating a problem. Users that come in here and find out whoa,
this isn’t operating how I, my expectations.
Madsen: I also have a question on the letter of credit or cash escrow for projects. Is there any
timeframe that the City will take to process a request to release cash or lower a letter of credit?
Is there a standard that you would follow?
Aanenson: I can address that. So typically if we take the letter of credit and there’s certain
things that we hold for over a year. For example landscaping when we do some of it down if it’s
in but we hold it for warranty but we do do draws so if a developer comes in, typically like on a
subdivision you have warranty for like a year before they’ll release that but for commercial
landscaping, typically once they get that in we’ll reduce that. Stormwater same thing. Someone
will go out and inspect it. For example when Noodles came in before their final we went out
there and did their inspections as things, as they called for those. We went out and visited the
site. Engineering, planning and then we just hold a certain amount for security.
Madsen: Would it generally be 5 business days that it takes to process that?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Aanenson: Well we would go right away and typically they just go into the weekly cutting of
checks or something like that so it might be 5 days yeah.
Madsen: Something like that, okay. Thank you.
Generous: We try to keep it under 10 days. Ten business days total.
Madsen: Okay.
Generous: That’s a policy thing that the City has followed.
Madsen: Thank you.
Aller: Additional comments or questions.
Tietz: I have one more. Regarding the issue of designating or calling it a farm. Does, if it’s not
in A2 but it’s production and it’s 10 acres, could it qualify for the green acres tax program?
Because that’s a state program as you’re well aware of and if it’s 10 acres and let’s say someone
had a greenhouse on their 10 acres and actually sold product, would they qualify for green acres
tax?
Aanenson: I think the standard on that’s a little different.
Generous: Yeah for green acres.
Aanenson: For green acres. It’s a higher standard than just you would get for.
Generous: You have to have so much revenue coming in and so much of the property has to be.
Tietz: Okay I know but one of the stipulations in that is a minimum of 10 acres and so I’m,
that’s why, why I have the question.
Aanenson: Yeah.
Tietz: And it’s not, it may not be a big deal and the tax incentive is not necessarily significant…
Aanenson: We don’t have anything in the city in green acres anymore. There’s not any property
in the city that’s in green acres.
Tietz: Isn’t there?
Aanenson: We took the last one out 5 years ago. 6 years ago. Yeah.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Tietz: Okay.
Aanenson: And that terminology green acres. There’s other property that could be ag.
Tietz: Ag preservation or.
Aanenson: Ag preserve or rural, yeah.
Tietz: Yeah, that’s still active too. Okay it’s just a, I just flagged it because it’s 10 acres and it’s
called farm and even though it’s not zoned Ag A2 though is it? It’s agricultural land. It’s just a
designation of farm.
Aanenson: Well there’s green acres and there’s ag preserve and I’m confusing the two right
now.
Generous: You can’t have agricultural uses under RSF though.
Tietz: Okay. Sorry.
Generous: Except for you may keep horses if you have a big enough property. Whole separate
thing. They’re classified differently than farm animals.
Aller: Alright. Any last questions? Comments. Great. Well we’ll open the public hearing
portion of this item. Anyone wishing to speak either for or against the modifications that have
been suggested to the zoning ordinances can do so at this time by stepping forward and stating
your name and address and stating your concerns. Seeing no one come forward we’ll close the
public hearing on this item and move to comments and questions.
Weick: I hope we have a parking issue at some time in the future in Chanhassen. That will be a
happy day.
Aller: A good thing.
Weick: Yes, right? That means we have tons of businesses and tons of people.
Aanenson: I could find you a couple small ones but yeah.
Aller: Okay I’ll entertain a motion at this point. Someone would like to make a motion.
Weick: The Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that City Council approve the
ordinance amending Chapters 18 and 20 of the Chanhassen City Code.
Aller: I have a motion. Do I have a second?
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Yusuf: Second.
Aller: Having a motion and a second, any further discussion or comment? I would just say that
zoning is the way we restrict the use of our property and that the modifications that you come
forward with are used to make sure that property owners have adequate notice of how we want to
see the properties used. It allows for transparency. The classifications have been pushed to
become simplified. It makes it easier to find out how we’re going to use our properties and make
it consistent with the state code and within the code of Chanhassen so I would be in favor of this.
Any additional comments or questions?
Weick moved, Yusuf seconded that the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends
that City Council approve the ordinance amending Chapters 18 and 20 of the Chanhassen
City Code. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Commissioner Yusuf noted the verbatim and summary Minutes
of the Planning Commission meeting dated November 17, 2015 as presented.
COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS.
Aanenson: Nancy may have a presentation. She was at the 101 ribbon cutting. You can talk
about that. For the bridge.
Aller: How did it go?
Madsen: It went very well. The weather cooperated. We had some buses that bused the Carver
County people to one side and the Scott County people to the other and then we walked towards
the middle and they cut the ribbon and we are now united with our new bridge.
Aanenson: There you go. Good job. It was. It was a nice day.
Madsen: It was a nice day yeah.
Aller: Any additional presentations? Going forward to City Council action update.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS.
Aanenson: Alright, thank you. It says on here Gateway Medical was supposed to go to the City
th
Council and actually they did, requested that be moved to the 14 so we’re trying to expedite
closing on that one too at the end of December so that will be moved forward. I also want to
state at that meeting that the City Council did officially map 101 so continuing to work on that.
It will be back on the agenda for the City Council for the final approval of the EAW. The
environmental assessment and now the work begins to get the funding and we’re talking to some
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
of the people along there right now that are, you know talking about development and long term
and where, what we think the timeline on that will be so things continue there. If I may
Chairman, members of the Planning Commission just point out that we are working, you can see
possible projects again. We still have a couple industrial parks. We are working on something
in the core of downtown. Couple of small subdivisions. And then our big work next year will be
the Comprehensive Plan. Typically we’ve only had one meeting in December. As this turns out
it was the first of December. We usually don’t have a second one in December because
historically it’s kind of moved back a little bit and people are busy and we’ve had a hard time
getting a quorum and as it turned out we didn’t have any applications in anyways so our next
th
meeting won’t be until 2016 which will be January 5. Right now we had that tentative one
there for a driveway variance so if the council does approve that, that would eliminate that.
Again that one was one where it actually tipped it into the requirement for a hard cover variance
too so you kind of made it worse so I think that can be solved if that gets approved. There may
th
or may not be a meeting on the 5. We would put the Comprehensive Plan discussion on if the
stormwater management plan is ready to go for distribution, we would talk about that too so I
know we’ll have a few people that won’t be here but we’ll see how that goes so I’ll let you
know. We’ll send you out a notice so you know if we’ll have something on or not but for sure
this would be our last meeting of the year. So with that I’d be happy to answer any other
questions that you may have about upcoming items.
Generous: Submittal deadline is this Friday.
Aanenson: This Friday yes. If something were to come in then we’d have something but right
now we’re not anticipating anything. Like I say we’re working on a few projects but typically
those would come in more January-February to get ready for road restrictions being lifted.
Weick: So Gateway Medical did not go to City Council?
Aanenson: No.
Weick: So it wasn’t approved.
Aanenson: No.
Weick: Okay.
Aanenson: I know, somebody kind of jumped the gun on that approval.
Weick: Yeah, okay.
Aanenson: We were very optimistic. It’s a nice.
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Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2015
Aller: Well thank you to staff for it’s great work this year since we won’t be seeing you until
next year and to the members of the commission for their participation and great comments and
look forward to seeing everybody next year.
Aanenson: Thank you.
Aller: I’ll entertain a motion to adjourn.
Madsen moved, Yusuf seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The Planning Commission meeting was
adjourned at 7:50 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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