CC Minutes 2016 05 09Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much Mr. Oehme.
Paul Oehme: Thank you.
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445 WEST 79 STREET – CHICK-FIL-A: SITE PLAN REVIEW WITH VARIANCES
TO CONSTRUCT A 4,775 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANT ON 1.32 ACRES OF
PROPERTY ZONED HIGHWAY AND BUSINESS SERVICES DISTRICT (BH) AND
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LOCATED AT 445 WEST 79 STREET. APPLICANT: CHICK-FIL-A INC. OWNER:
CHANHASSEN SHOPPES, LLC.
Mayor Laufenburger: Do we have a staff report? Ms. Aanenson, nice to see you this evening.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item is a request at 445
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West 79 Street for a site plan review with a variance for a Chick-fil-A drive thru restaurant.
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This item did appear before the Planning Commission on their April 19 meeting. A couple
issues that came up. Most notably the question of whether or not there was a cross access
between the two properties there. The hotel and the existing Highway 5 center. I’ll go through
that in a little bit more detail but there is a cross access agreement which kind of comes into play
in the discussion for the variance so they did vote 5-0 to approve the site plan. So this is the
subject site. The Highway 5 center. Again this property, the current Highway 5 center was built
most recently. Before that it was the Prairie House so the Prairie House restaurant was built in
conjunction, you can’t see the entire building here. There we go. The Prairie restaurant here so
this is the common driveway here between the two that there was a question on whether there
was cross access so the, we have no record of when the permit was for the Prairie House but
again those two were built I believe in the 70’s, early 80’s and then in 1996 the Highway center
so there’s been restaurants in there. Sporting good stores so now that’s kind of gone it’s life
cycle and as you are aware the City also, this property right here is owned by the City and to
make this project go forward the City entered into a purchase agreement which you had
approved and so when we go to approve the site plan agreement the closing will take place on
that at the same they execute the site plan agreement. So this is the existing subject property. So
the applicant is requesting approval for the site plan which is a requirement of our city code to go
through site plan approval. It does have a drive thru which is permitted in this zoning district but
there is a variance for the hard cover and the staff’s position on this, when the Prairie House was
built with the hotel it was pretty much all hard cover so when the Highway 5 center came in we
reduced that but now this application is reducing even further to, the requirement is 65 but
they’re going to 77 percent so they’re reducing the amount that’s out there. So the intent of the
business highway is to provide for highway oriented commercial development and low building
profile which this building is. It’s capturing on a location that has a lot of trips along the
highway and then also lower profile. So the joint access to the property to the west reduces the
green space because of the shared cross access. They can’t put landscaping in that so that
prohibits them to meeting some of those standards. So the applicant is trying to redevelop a site
that currently exceeds by 17 percent. As I stated right now it’s at 81 and bringing it down to 77
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
so they’re moving in the right direction so staff felt that we would support the request for the
hard cover. Again the findings and that are in your staff report. So this is how the site lays out
right now. So the building is approximately a little over 4,000 square feet and the, some of the
issues that we had on this is trying to make, reduce the double driveway which is what they
wanted so we reduced it down to 1 here. We also wanted to increase the patio space and this
island will be landscaped a little bit differently. Again trying to allow for the 2 driveway. This
is their prototypical. It is parked a little bit more than a standard. We went through a lot of
discussion on that. They showed us what their typical is that they have in the metro area which
is a little bit more stacking for their use itself so some of the issues that we had is making sure
that they had enough stacking as they drove down to the building and getting around and then
reducing some of the hard cover by such things as we’re changing the sidewalk to shorten up the
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length of that trip. Again you’ll be able to walk up to, there’s a sidewalk on West 79 so it is
walkable. So there are some changes to the site. You can see here on the landscaping we’ve
shown the green area here so making this area a little bit bigger. Pinching that driveway and
creating a bigger patio on the site and the additional landscaping. It does meet the city code.
They are making some modifications again before we execute the site plan agreement. All those
conditions for modifications are shown in the conditions of approval. This Chick-fil-A when it
came in was a little bit more their prototypical Chick-fil-A so we worked really hard to ask them
to do a little bit different. I would say this probably mimics a little bit more the Noodles on the
target site. The materials and use of materials. If I can show those really quickly. So those
would be the materials that are on the building. Again it’s pretty articulated with the awnings
that are the metal so we think it’s an attractive building. So the top elevation that you’re looking
at is actually facing Highway 5 so that’s what you’ll see from Highway 5. They’ll have signs on
that frontage. And then the one just below that will be facing the hotel correct, yep.
Mayor Laufenburger: So it looks like.
Kate Aanenson: That’s kind of the main entrance.
Mayor Laufenburger: We’re looking at this, the entrance is those double doors on the right, is
that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct Mayor. That’s the main entrance then. And then on the north
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side that would be facing West 79 Street. Again the fenestration meets all the requirements.
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You can see there’s use of the spanrow so we have not just a big block wall facing West 79.
And then the east elevation which will be facing then the city property and the Holiday gas
station would be the most southerly one.
Mayor Laufenburger: So it looks like the food pick-up on that upper elevation, the food pick-up
is around the redder brick, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: Yes. As you come around the window.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah there it is. That’s the window there. Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. So again the restaurant does have quite a bit of seating. While it does
have the drive thru they also have the indoor seating. So we’re looking at the seating and again
the drive thru window is looking at the parking that’s required. They have over parked it. That
was one of the issues that we asked them to maybe drop one more. They like to have 70 to make
sure that they can get as many trees on the site and especially when we were looking at some of
those areas where you’re in the outdoor dining, kind of creating a separation between the drive
thru and the outdoor dining itself. So the traffic was one of the issues that we spent a lot of time
on. As you know with the existing, or the newly opened Smashburger, Potbelly, that center at
Great Plains. There’s a lot of traffic coming up on Great Plains and the congestion there at the
intersection and turning movement so the engineering staff asked to do a little bit more detailed
study on the traffic itself. Someone from Chick-fil-A was supposed to be here to talk about
traffic and he’s here so we let them at the Planning Commission give a little bit more detail.
Before he comes up I might just jump ahead if that’s okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: Sure.
Kate Aanenson: So what’s changed from the site itself, I’ll let go through the details on this.
You can kind of see now here, so the hotel. The shared parking. How this all circulates coming
down. Coming around. One of the issues that we brought up at the Planning Commission was
that the stormwater hadn’t yet been resolved. There was some issues that still needed to be
addressed and so we’ve modified the conditions and I put those in front of you. Those are dated
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May 9 so those would be the correct conditions but I’ll just summarize some of that and maybe
the city engineer would want to comment on that too but basically the things that were kind of
main concern from the soil studies that the soils should be treated as hazardous. These are based
on the studies that they did because they have to do underground storage to reduce their capacity.
And then 2 permanent ground monitoring wells should be installed and then that the Minnesota
Pollution Control needs to be notified of some of the metals and gases that were detected on the
site so again we don’t think these are big issues but these are things that need to be
accomplished. Because of that we’ve added and the engineering department added additional
conditions. Those are found on the last page of the conditions of approval under water resources
and those are 14 through 19 so.
Mayor Laufenburger: You’re referring to the document that was left at our?
Kate Aanenson: Correct so those are modified conditions. So the project can go through but
they need to meet to the staff’s satisfaction those conditions have been met. We have been
notified that even on our property there’s just minor soil issues there. There’s no building
structure there but they still have to be addressed. A report has to be given to the City and
through the building department that they be part of the record of documents but because you’re
doing some storm water underneath the building there’s a little bit more detail that needs to go
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
into that. So with that I’ll let, see if the city engineer wants to answer or go into more detail on
that and then I’ll let the applicant speak to some of those issues too if that’s okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Oehme is there something you’d like to speak to regarding
this?
Paul Oehme: Sure. So Kate outlined what our concerns are so we’re going to be working with
the developer and PCA in making sure that the contaminated soils that have to be removed will
be removed. As Kate had indicated the concern is, Chick-fil-A has their design currently
requires or calls for infiltration of all the storm water. Most of the 1.1 inch of storm water on site
so there’s, we don’t want to infiltrate surface water into areas that have significant contamination
of soils so there’s still a lot of work to do with the storm sewer design but I think we’d like to
have these conditions included in the approval. It’s just to have staff give some flexibility and
some working room to get the design done correctly and to meet the agency’s standards.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme will the action that the City is asking relative to this, will this
action in any way provide a timing impediment for the developer do you know?
Paul Oehme: It could. I mean so there’s still a lot of soils work that I think has to get done.
There still has to be some communication with the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency to verify
what could stay and what soils potentially have to be taken out. You know I think with the level
of contamination that has been found, I don’t know how extensive you know we can be with
infiltration so the developer is going to potentially find another storm water management practice
on site to not just treat the water but to slow the rate down to pre-development conditions as well
so.
Mayor Laufenburger: And are we as a city and city staff are we prepared to cooperate any way
we can with the developer in order to achieve a solution?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. We’ll work with him hand in hand and try to get some resolution.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: If I may Mayor I’ll just give you 2 recent examples.
Mayor Laufenburger: Please.
Kate Aanenson: So if you look at the Sinclair gas station which we redeveloped, that had more
significant and we actually applied for assistance for that to help the developer on that one. So
that one needed remediation. The other one, the BP site which is just across the street on Great
Plains that also had some soil correction issues. Nothing significant but again it’s just a
monitoring, reporting and making sure they’re correctly handling it. Disposing of it so that’s a
lot of what it is but this is a little more complicated when they were planning on putting storm
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
water under there and how you separate those two so you’re not increasing or spreading
contaminated soils.
Mayor Laufenburger: And just to correct or to make sure we understand Mr. Oehme. We are
property owners are required, you mentioned 1.1. Isn’t it the first 1.1 inches of rain needs to be
dealt with on site as opposed to shipping it down to some other.
Paul Oehme: Water body.
Mayor Laufenburger: Water body like a storm pond or something like that.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: I’d just like to add too, you know you look at this property and the one next
door, these get more challenging where you’re doing infill development where there’s not as
much capacity left anymore and you can see the site’s already over on the hard cover.
Mayor Laufenburger: Sure, yep.
Kate Aanenson: And yet they wanted to be able to get the drive thru and maximize that. It’s a
good use on the site so it’s just trying to make everything fit and you know we’ll deal with that
too when the project potentially redevelops just to the west.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Aanenson. Excuse me, Ms. Aanenson did you want to invite
the applicant to come forward to speak to us?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I think there was some issues regarding traffic and if you would like to
hear from the applicant’s engineer that’d be great.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, we extend that invitation to you and just ask you to state your name
and address for the record and what your role is in this development.
Tim Thireen: Thank you Mayor and council. My name is Tim Thireen. I’m with the consulting
firm HR Green. We’re located on University Avenue in St. Paul. We represent Chick-fil-A on
these site development matters and represent them here tonight.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is there, you’re familiar with what Ms. Aanenson and Mr. Oehme are
talking about regarding the soil remediation or potential soil remediation?
Tim Thireen: I am. I will confess to not being a traffic engineer or a geologist here tonight but I
know enough about the site where I’ll be able to address your questions.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, well I’m sure you understand that we’re trying to make sure that we
have a site that’s ready to accept the restaurant and everything is done properly and obviously
we’re not going to put any impositional constraints on you that we don’t think are necessary so
our offer is just to say that we’re going to work with you as close as we can to make sure that we
get a site that’s acceptable for both the citizens of Chanhassen as well as your organization.
Tim Thireen: Thank you Mayor and council.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Any questions of, say your last name again?
Tim Thireen: Thireen.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thireen. Any questions of Mr. Thireen?
Kate Aanenson: I apologize because the traffic engineer was last week. I thought the traffic
engineer so I didn’t recognize him when he stood up because he wasn’t the same person so there
just was a little complexity at the Planning Commission trying to understand the traffic
movements and times of days and I think at the Planning Commission if you read the verbatim
minutes there was a pretty good discussion that the other gentleman from HR Green presented
and showed and you can go back to what we had on our slide looking at where that peak day is
because you know if you’re there at, right at noon it’s a little problematic in some of those
turning movements. I know the city engineer’s working on as you go out onto Market, making
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that turn on West 79 and Market, trying to look at those turn movements too if you’re to go,
take a left going south so I think looking at their proposal and what they had recommended or
saw as issues felt like those could be addressed and people kind of figure out the queuing. Going
at different times or heading the right direction if they’re going to go right or take a left.
Mayor Laufenburger: It would seem to me, I don’t know what other council members have
heard but there is enough of a positive interest in the presence of Chick-fil-A in this community
that it would seem to me that they’re prepared to adjust their traffic pattern as necessary to get
the food that they want.
Tim Thireen: Yeah I’d be happy to Mayor and council I’d be happy to go into what the report
says in more detail. I do know details about the report and recognize that that intersection there
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at Great Plains and 79 is a challenge. The location especially for that eastbound, left turn to go
north.
Mayor Laufenburger: Anybody yes, Councilwoman Ryan a question of Mr. Thireen?
Councilwoman Ryan: It’s really, I mean I read the verbatim minutes and I understand the
discussion but it is, it’s still a big, the traffic is a big concern of mine and I would love to hear
what you have to say because it is the peak hours. I mean you have the gas station. You have
retail. You have you know the restaurants that you had mentioned and it’s, it’s a little dangerous
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
pulling out onto that road if you’re going to head east on Highway 5 so I would like to hear what
you have to say please.
Tim Thireen: Sure. One of the features that has been proposed by Chick-fil-A is to restripe that
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portion of 79 to accommodate a larger queuing area for us so you get, yes correct. Yeah so the
big issue that the traffic study recognized was that traffic getting onto Great Plains from the
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eastbound 79 to make a left turn, that’s where we really see the challenges with queuing and
stacking of vehicles. You throw on top of that of course and it came up at the Planning
Commission meeting, the vehicles that are trying to get access to Holiday gas station. It is a
challenge. When we look at the traffic studies we see that there is enough flow with that
movement on the left turn lane where we think that vehicles would be accommodate still to get
into the Holiday gas station. That is the toughest part of the location without a doubt. We do
think that when people get more accustomed to the location they will find that Market Boulevard
is an attractive alternative and for much of those vehicles that they would avoid that queue on the
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eastbound 79 and go towards Market.
Mayor Laufenburger: Kate can you show that, with your pointer there?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, so this would be the other way out.
Mayor Laufenburger: So essentially what you’re saying is people queuing, if they queue outside
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of your parking lot they would queue on a eastbound lane on 79 right?
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Kate Aanenson: 79 correct.
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Mayor Laufenburger: 79 and let’s bring your pointer closer to the Chick-fil-A. So right there
they would queue there to make a right turn, is that correct into?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Tim Thireen: Yeah and the amount of queuing that would occur in 2030 would be at the peak
hour at the most. Right now I think what we’re seeing is about 4 ½ cars is the typical queue at
the peak period and I think this is peak hours we’re talking about so this is not an ordinary.
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Mayor Laufenburger: 4 ½ cars out on 79 Street?
Tim Thireen: That’s current conditions so cars waiting to make a left turn onto Great Plains
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from 79. In 2030 that could double. It could be as many as 9 vehicles queuing so that does
stack back. If you can picture that in your mind and we don’t have dimensions on there but it
wouldn’t necessarily stack back all the way to where we’ve got the marker showing there. Right
now the current bay area for the left turn is what 40 feet deep. There is striping back there that
does approximate a median. You know of course vehicles are turning left across that median
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
area to get into the gas station. You could restripe that potentially to create a longer bay area for
cars to queue and stack and make that left turn lane.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan did you have further comments?
Councilwoman Ryan: Well here’s my concern because if you have an extra long drive thru line,
you have put into place and I’m supportive of Chick-fil-A. I love Chick-fil-A. I drive to
Bloomington for Chick-fil-A but you know you have the extra long drive thru lane yet you’re
saying that there’s only going to be 4 cars coming out at a time and so that, it just doesn’t really
add up to me.
Tim Thireen: Well Mayor and council I may have misspoke. The queuing that would be
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occurring would be at Great Plains and 79. At that intersection. That’s where the traffic
perspective, that’s really the pinch point. Vehicles coming out of the development and trying to
make a left turn onto Great Plains.
Mayor Laufenburger: So out of, they’ve exited Chick-fil-A. They have their food. They made a
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right turn on 79 and now they’re going to, they plan to make a left turn onto Great Plains going
towards downtown Chanhassen.
Tim Thireen: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: So you’ve got a very narrow stacking. Probably 2 cars, 3 cars at best I believe
yeah.
Councilwoman Ryan: So are you going to encourage left turn only or?
Kate Aanenson: Well that’s what we talked about. One way to solve is just monitor and then
look at potentially restriping that so that would give more people the ability to stack within that.
Mayor Laufenburger: I think that left turn only makes much more sense. The left turn out of
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Chick-fil-A. Left turn onto 79 Street. Send them over to Market Boulevard.
Tim Thireen: What we’ve shown in our traffic study was we expect that about 80 to 85 percent
of the vehicles will come in from Great Plains and that about 65 percent, 60 to 65 would be
actually going back out on Great Plains because they would recognize the value I’ll say in going
left towards Market.
Mayor Laufenburger: I don’t disagree with that but I just knowing human behavior, if you’re the
fourth car stacked to make a left turn on Great Plains a couple of times on your trip, you’re going
to find a better route the next time.
Kate Aanenson: Right especially when you’re going back downtown. You can take a free right.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
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Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah you can go left on Market. Or left on 79, head over to Market
Boulevard and get downtown and we’re prepared to queue up cars on Market Boulevard right?
Kate Aanenson: There’s a bigger stack there, yeah.
Councilwoman Ryan: And when you talk about levels of service, and not just for you know the
Chick-fil-A business but when you look over at you know the impact it has for Potbelly’s and
Smashburger and now you have Chick-fil-A trying to come out on Great Plains to go east on 5,
you have a number of cars coming out from those establishments at the same time coming across
that intersection which on a, you know a slow day is challenging at best. Is there then, are we
considering making it a right turn only out of the Potbelly’s parking lot because I just am
concerned about the potential traffic accidents happening at that intersection right there on Great
Plains coming from, with both popular businesses and people coming in and out.
Paul Oehme: So we did work and discuss a lot of those items with Howard R. Green and we
looked at you know does it make sense to actually have that right-in/right-out and not have any
cross traffic on Great Plains. What we decided the best thing to do right now is to get more
stacking on, for that left turn lane onto Great Plains and look at how traffic will develop in this
area in the future when the Chick-fil-A is constructed so at Potbelly’s you know they do have the
opportunity to go right and left out of the facility. Out of the development there too so I think a
lot of property, or a lot of the traffic potentially that would come out of the Potbelly’s
development in the future might see that there is some stacking and some traffic backing up onto
Great Plains. They might just to get out of the development just make a right to at least get out
of the development and turn around someplace downtown and come back onto Great Plains or
Market Boulevard and if their destination is on Highway 5 so I think you know there’s some
opportunities for the traveling public to not just take those lefts and there will still be some
movements out there where they can still get out of the developments and onto Highway 5 in the
future.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Laufenburger: Just a second. Bethany, you had a question first.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: You know I don’t want to have my question until we finish this
movement first.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is your question Mr. Campion, is your question related to the
traffic?
Councilman Campion: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilman Campion.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Councilman Campion: I was queuing my question.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, how far back were you stacked?
Councilman Campion: I was 2 back. This is for Mr. Oehme and I don’t know if this is for future
consideration down the line based on other developments around the Potbelly and all that but
might that area be a candidate for something like a roundabout to change up the traffic flow quite
a big?
Paul Oehme: Yep, so that was another item that we looked at and discussed. The problem is
that intersection is so close to Highway 5 that with a roundabout or a signal we’re going to get
queuing potentially back up onto 5 just because of the stacking that would be involved with that
type of improvement at that intersection there so we looked at that. That’s not probably the best
fit improvement for that intersection. You know I think down the road we probably, if things do
get backed up you know looking at eliminating or reducing, trying to reduce the left turn lanes
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out of 78 Street or out of Potbelly just so that intersection functions a little bit better.
Kate Aanenson: Just to be clear, we’ve explored a lot of options on this so when Potbelly and
Smashburger, that center came in we also looked at the potential of this tying in. There’s 2 uses
that have a 30 year life span on there. One of them is the car wash. The other one is the
Valvoline too. Those are also potential for redevelopment so we’ve talked about extending that
driveway and so those properties you could go north onto that street and so that would give them
access out so instead of forcing this you could come up here and get out so you wouldn’t have all
that congestion at one intersection. So that’s a potential. We’ve met with some of the property
owners around there so when they’re, they weren’t ready to develop but we’ve kind of thought
long term some other options to take the pressure off that one point. As the city engineer
indicated you’re so close to Highway 5. Trying to resolve that so we’re trying to think long
term. Again like he had stated, if you went north you’d come down behind the park and ride.
You could cut through that loop and just do a loop around so there’s other options.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. McDonald you had a question.
Councilman McDonald: Well you kind of answered. I was going to ask about a light but yeah
you’ve addressed that but why can’t we do a right-in/right-out onto Highway 5?
Paul Oehme: Onto Highway 5?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah from Chick-fil-A you could do a right in and then a right out.
Paul Oehme: Oh, off their parking lot?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Paul Oehme: MnDOT wouldn’t allow for that. The access spacing wouldn’t meet their criteria
to have a right-in/right-out right there.
Mayor Laufenburger: I think that’s your answer.
Councilman McDonald: Well I’m down at that corner a lot and I don’t see where this is going to
do anything except make it worst because you haven’t even mentioned the Holiday and that’s
always a problem because those gas bays are always full and people are coming out there so you
add that to the mix so it’s not just Potbelly’s and Smashburger. It’s also Holiday. I think those
are the ones that are really big and I know I’ve seen a lot of close calls of that turn off of 5
coming in there and someone trying to go out where the Potbelly’s is at. There’s not a lot of
distance there. This is a, I think this is a I think a intersection just waiting for a big problem and
I mean I’m all in favor of Chick-fil-A coming to town too but this has got to be addressed and
probably not just Chick-fil-A but it’s all these other businesses. I mean something’s got to be
done there.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah I think that’s what I was curious. Have you heard from any of
the businesses that are going to be, is it north of Chick-fil-A about any impact they’re going to
have on their traffic or their customers that are trying to get to their locations?
Kate Aanenson: No.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. Because where is the, where is that daycare center? Is that
just around on Great Plains Boulevard?
Mayor Laufenburger: Goddard School.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah it’s further north up here.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Goddard, Goddard, yes.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, it’s further north up here. Further north.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And they’re not concerned that that’s going to impact their.
Kate Aanenson: I think their peaks are a little bit different because they’re going to be morning
and afternoon drop off and their peaks are going to be lunch time and you know probably 5:00-
6:00 I think is their peak times and that was in their study too.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Because I would think that it would be, in my opinion difficult to be
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on 79 Street and try to go north on Great Plains Boulevard. Try to make that turn especially if
the traffic is coming both ways. Trying to get to Chick-fil-A and so I didn’t know if anybody
had addressed that at all.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah so we looked at this at the level of service you know obviously F is
failing so there’s some tricky certain times in there but I think there’s some things that we can do
to try to make it the best we can. As I stated things are changing down there and ultimately there
will be other developments that will help improve…
Due to technical difficulties a portion of the discussion was not taped.
Mayor Laufenburger: …no the other one. Right there. Aren’t they going to come there and just
continue all the way south?
Kate Aanenson: Yes. And park somewhere here.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah so they will not, they will not come through that middle portion to
get into the drive thru.
Kate Aanenson: More than likely not because this is.
Mayor Laufenburger: And you, my guess is you would probably stripe it that way and sign it
that way isn’t that correct?
Tim Thireen: Correct. One of the features that Chick-fil-A is committed to is another part of
the solution making process here for traffic is to provide some on site signing that would guide
motorists through there to the appropriate locations.
Kate Aanenson: And that’s typical on these type of things. You have queuing for the drive thru
stay on this side or, that’s typical what we would see.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well you’ve got queuing for, you’ve got 22 cars shown in your loop. I
can’t imagine there would ever be 22 cars waiting to exit Chick-fil-A.
Kate Aanenson: The first month it’s open yeah it will be.
Mayor Laufenburger: Oh really?
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Kate Aanenson: Yeah, they’ll be out onto West 79, yeah.
Todd Gerhardt: You still have queuing that can go back through the entrance.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Kate Aanenson: Right.
Todd Gerhardt: You know as you go along the west parking.
Kate Aanenson: If you came in this way you could stack up here too, yeah.
Todd Gerhardt: No the other side Kate.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah there.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah they could come in through here.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah that way if you keep all the incoming traffic over there then the
exiting traffic makes that right turn and then they have 2 choices. They can either go, if they
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want to go eastbound on 79 they can go to the exit on the northeast part of the property. If they
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want westbound on 79 they can go to the northwest part. Well I think the questions that are
raised regarding the traffic, they’re real and we need to be prepared with whatever plan is
necessary in order to accommodate that recognizing that human behavior, they will learn what is
the best alternative for them but there will always be some of those people that are impatient and
those are the ones that we have to be ready to deal with Mr. Thireen, correct?
Tim Thireen: Yeah tough to control for them but you’re correct yes. One other features that I’d
just like to remark is that on Sundays there is, of course Chick-fil-A is not open so that is often
very compatible with the surrounding commercial properties and a nice fit with the traffic needs.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any further questions of Mr. Thireen? Councilwoman Ryan.
Councilwoman Ryan: Not a question but a comment and again this comes back to the traffic and
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my concern especially coming out on 78 and then Great Plains is, if you look at or you visit the
Chick-fil-A in Bloomington you know at the lunch hour and the back up that comes along by
that Target coming out and you have the Target parking lot and you have Best Buy and you have
a lot of retail coming, folks coming out and the back up you know, the back up queue and I know
that there’s a light there but people know their patterns and stick with them and again I’m very
concerned about trying to get people to go to Market and exiting or entering Market to access 5
is not an easy traffic turn either coming from downtown Chanhassen so I just, I’d like to see
some changes on those roads before going forward.
Mayor Laufenburger: Where would you place the priority Councilwoman Ryan?
Councilwoman Ryan: On Great Plains Boulevard because people coming off of 5 wanting to get
their chicken sandwich, coming in and cutting across the lane of traffic and people turning left, I
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
mean that intersection right there with, as Councilman McDonald mentioned it’s not just the
restaurants but it’s also the Holiday so it’s everything happening during those same lunch and
dinner hours.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well the good news here is that obviously Chick-fil-A has chosen a site
that is prominently positioned on Highway 5 so there’s no question that people will know that
it’s there. You know traveling in both directions. That’s a good thing which means that that will
be a big attraction but that will also bring in a level of traffic that you know likely isn’t there
without it. I’m not saying that there’s nothing wrong with the retailers that have been on there
but this is a trending and an up and coming restaurant and I’m sure every council member has
heard from somebody in the community saying you know I want my CFA. I want my CFA. Mr.
Oehme what do you, do you have a contingency that we can talk about that would come in place
so you’d be prepared by implement? You mentioned striping. Is there anything else?
Paul Oehme: Right so we talked about striping already. We talked about just allowing for
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maybe a three-quarter access onto 79 Street from Great Plains so you couldn’t make that left
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out onto 79 Street. You can do you know just have it a right-in/right-out.
Mayor Laufenburger: So you’re saying sign it as right turn only?
Paul Oehme: No you’d have to put a median in the intersection there. We’re not proposing at
this time. It’s something that’s kind of in the back of our minds just to monitor. I mean I think
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one, we want to restripe 79 Street. Number two, if we do see a problem out here we would
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potentially put up a sign at these exit points that don’t make a right hand turn onto 79 Street
during certain peak hours. Direct all the traffic over to Market Boulevard. I think the traffic
report says that’s a much better access point than Great Plains so that’s kind of our next step and
the third step would be to look at potentially modifications at that intersection to reduce the
amount of movements at the intersection in the future. That’s kind of our last resort but those are
the type of things that we’ve been thinking about.
Mayor Laufenburger: Perhaps Ms. Aanenson, can we attach, if we were to approve the site plan,
it’s the site plan we’re approving tonight is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: (Yes).
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Can we just attach that the site plan is approved predicated on staff
coming back to council with a sequence of steps to be taken in the event that traffic becomes a
problem? Can we do that? Mr. Knutson, our good counsel. You’ve often said we can do
anything we want.
Roger Knutson: I agree with that. The more specific you are the better as far as imposing
conditions.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Mayor Laufenburger: This isn’t a condition necessarily on the site plan. It’s a condition on
action with.
Roger Knutson: Well the City can do the things that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme is talking about.
Roger Knutson: Without Chick-fil-A’s or any individual’s approval. You can sign it. You can
change intersections. You can restripe it. You don’t need their approval to do that.
Councilman McDonald: If I could Mr. Mayor, that’s not a problem of the site. That’s a problem
of the city and if we approve this and if it creates these traffic problems it’s up to us to solve
them. I don’t think you can put those restrictions on the site.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: Okay that’s not their problem. That’s our problem. I’m fine with
recognizing we’ve got a problem. I think we’ve already you know said that tonight. I mean I
would even take issue with making people go down to Market and turn left. If you’ve ever tried
to turn left out of there when people are coming off of 5 that’s, all of this is going to take some
looking at and I’m not sure what the real solution is. That’s why we have an engineering
department but that’s something that they will need to look at and monitor the situation and I
trust them. They know the problem at Potbelly and I’ve talked to Paul and Kate’s mentioned it
many times. We have some contingency plans but some things need to fall in place that are kind
of beyond our control at this point so.
Mayor Laufenburger: That’s a good reminder Councilman McDonald that we have example
after example where the City has even been proactive in taking steps to remedy traffic situations.
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I’m thinking of Pioneer Pass Park. 78 just north of, or excuse me. Galpin just north of 78 so
there’s many other examples so I guess I would, that’s a good comment. Mr. Thireen I thankyou
very much. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Ms. Aanenson is there anything else that
we need to know about?
Kate Aanenson: No I think we covered it. The stormwater issue would be ongoing. That would
be the only thing we’d hang it up on. Just so you know when Chick-fil-A opens we anticipate
that we will have a lot of traffic. I don’t want anybody to think that’s a long term line but we
will be talking to them about, that they need to provide extra management of the traffic out there
in that first month or so.
Mayor Laufenburger: Sure.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Kate Aanenson: But we are recommending approval. Again we think a one story building on
this site and a highly articulated, nice design with the modified condition which we passed out
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dated May 9 and the Findings of Fact, we are recommending approval.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. At this time is there any council member that any further
discussion, comment or motion?
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I’d like to make a motion. I would recommend the City Council
approves the site plan for a 4,775 square foot one story building with a drive thru and a variance
for hard cover, plans prepared by HR Green Incorporated dated February 23, 2016 and adopts
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the Findings of Fact and the modifications dated May 9 from the planning commission. Or
from planning department.
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Todd Gerhardt: And delete item 6 of that recommendation and replacing it with the May 9
memo.
Councilman McDonald: And delete item 6 of the February 23, 2016 findings.
Kate Aanenson: I think those, yeah those are the plans and spec date. Not the minute date so.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: No it’s in the staff report.
Kate Aanenson: Oh sorry.
Councilman McDonald: In the staff report and replace it with item 6 in the amendment that was
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passed out today dated May 9.
Mayor Laufenburger: So it’s the motion to approve the site plan. Striking item 6. Replacing it
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with the memo dated May 9.
Todd Gerhardt: From Terry Jeffery.
Mayor Laufenburger: From Terry Jeffery, okay. That’s a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Just to clarify Ms. Aanenson, this
motion approves the site plan. It does not approve Chick-fil-A is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. They have to execute all the conditions under the site plan and
then we’ll sign off on that. As a part of that they also have to close on our property or this
project can not go forward.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, any further discussion?
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council
approve the site plan for a 4,775 square foot, one story building with a drive-thru and a
variance for hard cover, plans prepared by HR Green, Inc. dated 02/23/16, subject to the
following conditions and adoption of the Findings of Fact:
Building:
1.The building is required to have an automatic fire extinguishing system.
2.Building plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of
Minnesota.
3.Retaining walls over four high must be designed by a professional engineer and a permit
must be obtained prior to construction.
4.Sanitary and storm sewer service must comply with Minnesota State Plumbing Code (see
Table 701.1).
5.Detailed occupancy related requirements will be addressed when complete building plans are
submitted.
6.The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as
possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
Engineering:
1.Several proposed items are shown within the city’s drainage and utility easement, including:
both retaining walls, clearance bar post for the drive-thru and the Chick-fil-A monument
sign. These items must be moved out of the easement or the applicant must enter into an
encroachment agreement with the city after, but concurrent to the site plan agreement.
2.An additional drainage and utility easement shall be recorded over the two drainage basins
located south of the parking lot.
3.Staff has requested further analysis to include the Market Boulevard intersection.
4.The applicant’s engineer shall also examine ways to mitigate the queueing and decreased
LOS.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
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5.The applicant shall and re-stripe the intersection of W 79 Street & Great Plains Boulevard
to provide a longer left turn queue.
6.The applicant’s engineer shall verify whether an adequate sight line is provided for vehicles
exiting via the eastern site access.
7.The applicant shall follow the accessibility code for the construction as well as all applicable
State and Federal laws.
8.The applicant shall coordinate with city staff prior to removal or construction of the services
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regarding inspection and traffic control on W 79 Street.
9.Once construction is complete, the applicant shall retain ownership of the proposed sanitary
service, water service and hydrant constructed on this property.
Planning:
1.The applicant shall combine the two parcels as one lot.
2.The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the City and provide the necessary
security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping.
3.Wall lighting and the trash enclosure lighting shall comply with city code.
4.The proposed monument sign shall be relocated on the site to comply with city code.
5.Signage shall comply with city code and requires separate sign permits for each sign.
6.The applicant shall reduce the drive-thru entry width to one lane to add a landscape peninsula
in the southwest corner of the building and to expand the patio area.
7.The applicant shall investigate the shortening of the service sidewalk connecting the building
to the parking lot.
8.The applicant shall provide enhanced landscaping to the north of the building.
Landscaping:
1.The applicant shall revise the landscape plan to accommodate more of the required
bufferyard trees in the south and east buffer yard areas.
2.The interior width of all landscape island must a minimum of 10 feet.
3.The 8” oak tree located on plans along the southeast property line must be preserved.
Revised landscape plans shall note the tree as saved.
4.The London plane tree and Norway maple listed in the Plant Schedule shall be replaced with
appropriate species from the city’s Approved Tree List.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
Water Resources:
1.The applicant shall consider modifications to site grading, catch basin placement or both to
minimize to the maximum extent practicable, the amount of runoff leaving the site to the
west.
2.Sheet C-3.1 the two swales/basin areas shown on the southern property boundary shall be
stabilized as soon as possible after going on-line but no more than 48 hours afterwards.
3.The applicant shall do additional subsurface exploration/investigation to provide more
substantial evidence that the infiltration system will work as modeled. The method of
exploration/investigation shall be left to the applicant and their engineer’s discretion. In the
event the findings indicate that infiltration is not feasible, stormwater management plans
shall be modified accordingly.
4.The Stormtech system shall be owned and maintained by the property owner.
5.A drainage and utility easement shall be recorded over the Stormtech system and the two
basins located south of the parking lot.
6.The design shall be modified to prevent the wall from experiencing inundation. In the event
this is not possible, the D&U shall clearly state that the retaining wall is the sole
responsibility of the property owner.
7.The applicant shall prepare an operations and maintenance manual which shall include a
schedule of inspection as well as anticipated routine maintenance to maintain performance in
perpetuity or until such a time as all parties agree it is no longer necessary. This document
shall include persons responsible for inspections and maintenance and shall be recorded
against the property.
8.The city or their representative shall be granted rights to come onto the property during and
after construction to inspect the facility.
9.Inspection reports and maintenance records shall be made available to the City within 30
days of receiving a written request.
10.The applicant must evaluate the conveyance downstream to assure adequate capacity exists.
11.The model shall be modified to include the area that drains into ST-41 and the area that
drains into ST-6 as basins.
12.Additional detail is needed for the Stormtech system to fully evaluate its efficacy. These
items include elevation of chambers, interconnection between chambers for evaluation of
short circuiting of the system, and elevation of the stone.
13.The applicant shall be responsible for all other agency permits such as MPCA, RPBCWD,
MN DOT, MNDOT, et al.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 9, 2016
14.It is estimated that $19,997.34 in stormwater connection fees will be due at lot consolidation.
In the event that infiltration is not allowed, the Surface Water Connection Fee credit shall be
modified to reflect the amount of abstraction achieved on the site. If no abstraction is
achieved the credit shall be $0.00 and the fee due shall be $39,994.68.
15.The applicant shall, as part of the RAP, get guidance from the MN Pollution Control Agency
on whether infiltration would be allowed in the area.
16.In the event that infiltration is not allowed, the applicant must redesign the storm sewer
management system so that the following conditions are met:
a.There shall be no increase in rates leaving the site.
b.Abstraction is achieved to the maximum extent practicable. Other abstraction methods
such as reuse must be evaluated.
c.Water is treated to achieve 90% removal of Total Suspended Solids and 60% removal of
Total Phosphorus.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much Mr. Thireen. We wish you the best of luck.
We’ve got people salivating for your chicken sandwich already, okay. Let’s see that concludes
our new business at this time.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt do you have any administrative presentations?
Todd Gerhardt: We’re still monitoring the Prince Memorial parking situation and also the
barricades on Highway 5 which right now restrict a left hand turn if you’re heading westbound
on Highway 5 onto Audubon. Staff will sit down again tomorrow and discuss how much longer
the barricades will go up. We are seeing the crowds reduced a little bit but we’ll monitor the
situation and have them removed when we think is appropriate.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt right now that site is essentially self policing. We’re not
putting any public safety resources on the site, is that correct?
Todd Gerhardt: That is correct. Short of when officers have time to drive through and just
monitor the site visually. But nobody is on site other than private security for Paisley Park and
that’s all internal.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. And occasionally I see some city employees just policing the
area for trash and stuff is that correct?
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