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PC 2017 12 05 CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 5, 2017 Chairman Aller called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Andrew Aller, Mark Undestad, John Tietz, and Mark Randall MEMBERS ABSENT: Steve Weick, and Nancy Madsen STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director PUBLIC PRESENT: Vera Morgan Minnetonka Steve Scharfenberg Chanhassen Joe & Linda Roslansky 431 Trap Line Lane PAISLEY PARK – PUD AMENDMENT FOR SPECIAL EVENT. Aanenson: Thank you Chairman, members of the Planning Commission. The applicant, PPark Management for Paisley Park Museum located at 7801 Audubon Road is requesting an amendment to their Planned Unit Development. That’s the ordinance governing how the museum operates. They were making a request to permit liquor as part of a one week activities associated with the Super Bowl. So the Paisley Park request, because it’s outside their normal hours and are serving liquor does require an amendment to the ordinance. So what we’ve included in your staff report also includes a special event permit. We put that really in there, that’s something that we do administratively but we put that in there to show that we’ve gone through the permitting process and made sure it meets the event so again PPark Management has applied for that amendment. You have the discretion of whether or not to approve that, recommend changes or the like. I also want to mention that this item is the public hearing is th tonight but formal action will then be made by the City Council at their January 8 meeting. So th for background then the October 24 the City Council did approve the rezoning of the Paisley Park property for a museum. I’ve attached in the staff report the governing rules for the PUD itself and prohibited in that was liquor sales and liquor consumption so the request of this would also require that they get a license that would allow someone to serve the liquor and the food so that would be a caterer’s license so that also has to be permitted through the City so there wouldn’t be the establishment itself doing that. They would secure the caterer’s license approved through the City. Reviewed by the City, excuse me. So again the proposed events thth would be Monday, January 29 through Sunday, February 4 and then 7:00 to 11:00 and I believe the applicant now is stating that they might want to stay open til 1:00 a.m. which we have reviewed. The City’s liquor laws allow open to be servings til 1:00 a.m. but I’ll let them address that when they step forward. So again we’ve identified the activities involved with it with the Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 museum operation and I just also included in that, the council asked us back in June to give a review update of how the museum is operating. Again under the ordinance they are allowed 12 special event permits which they’ve done. A few of these activities associated with the park so in June we did review with the City Council how the operations are working. They’ve made some transit changes. They’ve accommodated Uber and driving and those sort of improvements so the conclusion of the report that the operation of the museum continues to evolve and they kind of defined their business model but we have not had any significant calls for service. We have a good relationship with them. The fire department, the building inspections department as well as the sheriff’s office so they don’t believe there’s been a negative impact and the traffic. How they have to manage it when they have special events is busing. There’s limited parking on site. And there’s also a cap to the number they have. When they do special events then they call for the fire inspections. Those are all accommodated before the events take place to make sure they meet the seating and fire exiting so this would be the same procedure that would be followed with these special events so you can see attached to the application itself is a special event permit itself and that’s really just for your edification. That’s the administrative part that we would review but just to let you know that we’ve done our due diligence as far as that’s concerned. So in order for this to go forward you’d have to make a recommendation on amending the PUD just for that one week period and those times allotted to allow for the liquor sales so in your attachments I’ve included the amendment to the PUD, the original PUD ordinance, the development review, application by the applicant including they have fiduciary responsibility to America Bank who would oversee the operations and the special event and then I’ve attached two email messages and I gave you another one today with differing positions on that and then also the affidavit of mailing. So our recommendation was that the public safety and city staff felt that we would support the liquor for that one week in conjunction with the Super Bowl activities so I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Aller: Okay just quickly for the record, those items that you mentioned are included in the packet. They are received for the record. They have been reviewed by the commissioners present and they are a part of the website packages so those of you that are watching at home or th want to take a look at these documents to either follow this to the 8 or for your own purposes, they can be found on the website for your review. We looked at the PUD. It’s been a while now. Was their original request for a liquor license? Aanenson: No. Aller: So that had never been requested. On the prior permits that had been granted, what are the size of the parties as far as the number of individuals? We’re looking at this request for between 500 and 1,000 people. Aanenson: Correct they’ve had similar celebrations. Aller: Is it similar? 2 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Aanenson: Celebration stuff had been that size. Similar in size. Manageable. Aller: And so in our review, or in our prior review and the information received from the police and the fire departments would encompass a permit like the one they are requesting now with the exception of the alcohol? Aanenson: That’s correct Chairman. So for example when there’s a larger activity such as Celebration Week then we ask as part of their permit application that they share with us that they secured parking. Typically they’ve worked with Southwest Transit to provide bus parking there and then bus them in so those are part of the review procedures that we take. Aller: And if granted the typical city rules then would apply as far as the serving of the alcohol. They would have to go out and have an actual individual come in and perform those services? Aanenson: Caterer’s license, correct. Aller: …with a catering license. The servers that are provided under that catering license are responsible to the applicant or to the caterer? Who’s responsible for the individuals, the training and. Aanenson: That would be part of the caterer’s license, yep. Aller: So if there was service to underage drinking or for underage drinking and things like that, that would be covered by those individuals in the catering? Aanenson: Correct. Aller: And in the past with the traffic flow there have been amendments so they’ve been tweaking those as a result of the other permits that have been granted? Aanenson: I think the changes happened shortly after it opened. Circulation changed. I think everything coming from the south going north turning, coming into the southern entrance and exiting at the northern entrance instead of coming off of 5 and trying to turn southerly. The circulation seemed to work much better that way. Aller: And I understand that our ordinance allows for a 1:00 p.m. Aanenson: On this yes. For this yeah, for serving alcohol. Aller: For serving alcohol. Aanenson: That’s correct. 3 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Aller: And this is the first application for alcohol for Paisley Park. Aanenson: Correct. For my knowledge. I mean whatever happened before, what went on there but as part of getting, as part of the Paisley Park Museum and this application. Aller: And as far as the other special permits that we’ve had in the city, have we been doing those at 1:00? Have people been asking for it and so we have some anecdotal information? Aanenson: Most of the time, the general operations have been 11:00. I think I’ll let the applicant speak to why the later hours. Some of the other events that are happening downtown and how they’re trying to tie it in with some corporate events. We’ll let the applicant speak to that. Aller: Okay. Those are all the questions I have for now. Any, Commissioner Tietz. Tietz: Yeah I might, Kate you mentioned that on some special events they have had up to 1,000 people there at a time. I guess I’m just, you know 500 to 1,000 for this type of event is not necessarily the same type of event as a day to day activity and it seems like the concentration of activity with vehicles arriving. If it’s all buses and Lyft and Uber’s because that parking lot is obviously quite small and accommodates, I can’t remember what the numbers were. I think it’s less than 100 cars. Aanenson: Yes, so I’ll let the applicant speak to that Celebration Week. It’s the same sort of circumstances there where they were bused in. Tietz: Yeah. Aanenson: And I believe they’ll talk about that, where they’re coming from downtown and how they’re making those arrangements. Tietz: Okay. And the tent that was up there before that had a limited time period, that was, this tent is 40 by 70. Are you anticipating this to be in the same location and relatively the same size? Aanenson: No, it’s a staging tent and I’ll let them address that. The other tent was a merchandise tent that was up for 6 months. Tietz: Right, well food and merchandise yeah. Aanenson: Yes, and it’s more staging for as people coming in and I’ll let them explain how that flows. Tietz: Okay, thanks. 4 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Aller: Any other questions at this time? Hearing none we’ll have the applicant step forward if they’d like to make a presentation. Karen White: Hi. Aller: Could you state your name and address for the record. Karen White: Sure. Aller: And representational capacity. Karen White: Hi, I’m Karen White from Paisley Park Museum, 7801 Audubon Road, Chanhassen. Aller: Welcome Ms. White. Karen White: Thanks. So Paisley Park Museum is proposing an alcohol, or permission to serve th alcohol the week of Super Bowl. January 29. We’re getting a lot of, as you can imagine, inquiries from corporate clients looking to host events at, in our sound stage area at Paisley Park so we are open to that. We don’t have anything specific at this time but we also want to make sure that we’ve got everything in place with the City and want to just make sure everything is covered should something come up where we have an opportunity to book an event. A party at Paisley Park in the evening so just for the record it was 1:00 a.m. too. Aller: Right. Karen White: So okay good, sorry I wasn’t sure if you heard that. So another thing I did want to just bring up off the top of my notes as far as underage drinking that was brought up. These are corporate events. We haven’t heard of anyone bringing younger folk in so. Aller: Great. And do you have a traffic plan ready to go? If you don’t have a party planned now, and I understand you want the permit so that you can do so within a short period of time should a corporate or a bunch of corporations want to put that together. Karen White: Right. Aller: What kind of vision do you have for that? Karen White: Well just to give you an idea of what we’ve seen so far. We’ve had a lot of site visits already from people coming in out of town. We’ve got two events that are 250 people. Oh by the way, again we’re being so conservative with the head count. The guest list so we’ve got two already that are you know pretty close to just deciding that they do want to go ahead and do 5 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 it and it’s about 200 to 250 people. Another night we do have 500. We don’t have anybody for 1,000 but we just again want to cover it and be conservative but we do not have anything for 1,000 people. We do have also made arrangements and we have drafted contracts that all transportation into the property has to be through buses only. We do have 125 parking spots in the front. Aller: Alright, questions? Tietz: Just about on the busing. Karen White: Yeah. Tietz: Would the corporate sponsor be responsible for contracting the buses or would you help coordinate to make sure that it runs smoothly? Karen White: Nope, it’s all on them. Tietz: You have so much, you have a very good track record with shuttling folks in. Karen White: Yeah. Tietz: Would you be… Karen White: We’d like not to. Tietz: …so you don’t have some bus service that has no idea where Chanhassen is and comes in, and tried to turn left off of Highway 5 and the circulation seems to work quite well and you’ve done a very good job with that. Karen White: Thank you. Tietz: I’m concerned that with the number of folks, if it’s 250 that’s a pretty small group. That’s a couple three buses from downtown but. Karen White: Right. Tietz: If it’s 1,000 and they’re in and out and it’s a big change over and some corporation is just trying to provide a great opportunity at a great facility for a lot of people, it could be a traffic issue. Karen White: Well I’ll tell you one thing. It’s interesting one thing we do do is we vet anything that happens outside of our world is very, very strictly vetted so there won’t be a bus company that we haven’t already approved of coming onto our property. So we’re pretty strict. We are 6 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 pretty strict. I also wanted to touch on the tent for a minute too. We are going to be, the tent that we had, we own that and it is 40 by 70 so we are looking to put that up again but only as a point of entry for the guests. We really don’t want them coming through the front door and walking through the museum to get to the back sound stage area so what we would like to do is put the tent up and there’s a really nice drop off point right there. A doorway so we would use that as an entry point for the event and maybe have a red carpet or you know whatever. Some sort of entryway for people so they don’t have to walk too far from the bus to get into the building. And we wouldn’t be selling merchandise or, we used to sell food and have that designated as an eating area. It would be strictly just a walkway into the building. Aller: Okay. Which gets to a question I think some people are going to inquire about or at least want to speak about and that’s the consumption of the alcohol and the food then would be inside the facility as opposed to outside the facility which normally occurs? Karen White: Absolutely. It’s inside and strictly confined to the sound stage area. Won’t be anywhere else. As a matter of fact, and I’m not sure if you’re interested even of knowing this but no one will access to the museum at all. It will be strict, you know completely locked down. Everything is completely confined to the sound stage area. And I just, I mean again I don’t know if that’s something you’re interested in but it’s important to us that no one goes near the artifacts and exhibits. Aller: And then I know that camera use is prohibited. Karen White: Correct. Aller: …will also be prohibited during this event? Karen White: Absolutely. Absolutely. And also another thing important I think to mention is there will be no smoking as usual on our property anywhere near our property. Aller: And going back to my question about the change in time from the 11:00 to 1:00, is that an afterthought or are people requesting it? What’s the purpose for that? Karen White: Kind of a combination of both. One of the clients we spoke to said geez, you know we’ve got, as you can imagine there’s so many things going on downtown that week and during the day and a lot of these corporate groups are really tightly scheduled and they’ve got like 5 places, some are going to the curling clubs. You know they’re going all over the place to get a good feel for the area so they were just saying that 11:00 is a little tight for them. If they want to go out for dinner somewhere to get to Chanhassen by 9:00 and then turn around and leave at 11:00 p.m. Aller: Well I might suggest that we have a dinner theater that they might want to go to. 7 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Karen White: I think they’re booked. Yeah but anyway yeah, so that’s why we’re thinking 1:00. Just because that seemed reasonable. So people didn’t have to turn around and drive back to Minneapolis. Aller: Let’s see if I have anything else. Alright, I don’t have any questions. There’s no questions at this time? Karen White: Okay. Aller: Thank you very much. Karen White: Thank you. Thanks a lot. Aller: Alright. We’ve had the presentation of the staff report and we’ve had the applicant come forward so let’s now open the public hearing portion of this item. So any individual wishing to come forward and speak can do so. Please state your name and address for the record. Audience: And this is regarding Paisley Park. Aller: Paisley Park and let us know what your thoughts are. Vera Morgan: Hi. Hi my name is Vera Morgan and I have known Prince for over 30 some years. Also I’ve spoken to Karen before because when my cousin George Clinton was in town he was trying to go to Paisley Park while he was in town. Okay. Aller: And just for the record Ms. Morgan your address for the record. Vera Morgan: Oh my address, mailing address is 4737 County Road 101, #177, Minnetonka, Minnesota, 55345. Aller: Thank you. Vera Morgan: Okay. The reason I’m here is out of concern because I understand that Prince has never wanted alcohol at Paisley Park. They’ve had previous issues where even people who would come to Paisley Park had been drinking prior to even coming there and were asked to leave because they were obviously intoxicated. I understand that the purchase helps of sales as far as alcohol but the events that are currently, special events or corporate events but currently there are events called Paisley Park After Night which I’ve attended many times which were similar and they have a DJ. They have food. They have non-alcoholic drinks and it’s done very well and there has been no need for alcohol. Usually when there’s alcohol there is issues that occur because of someone either becoming belligerent, etcetera and needing to put out of Paisley Park and these are people as I mentioned before that have come there drinking prior to so my concern would be this. To address some of the concerns about people going into the museum 8 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 and having access to artifacts and could be stumbling and drinking and damaging artifacts so that part of it has been addressed. My next question would be about are the items in the sound stage area, the artifacts being removed? Karen White: They are. Vera Morgan: Out of there. Karen White: Yes. Vera Morgan: Okay. The other issue of concern is in the MPG area where there’s the DJ and all of Prince’s furniture etcetera, is that being removed or? Karen White: Pretty much. Vera Morgan: Okay. Karen White: Like Celebration. Were you at Celebration? Vera Morgan: I was there. Yeah with George, okay. Karen White: Yeah. Vera Morgan: So my point is, is that. Aller: So Ms. Morgan? Ms. Morgan why don’t you speak into the microphone so we can. Vera Morgan: Okay, sorry. Aller: It’s being recorded and we want to make sure everything’s clear and then we’ll get your questions answered. Vera Morgan: Okay sorry. Okay no problem. So my concern would be in the MPG area then, the remaining area there, the furniture which itself, in itself and that couch area and all the pillows etcetera where the DJ normally is, is also considered artifacts. Has been there from when Prince was giving parties from the beginning. We’re not even allowed when we’re in there for Paisley Park After Dark to even come up on that stage area so as long as that’s being protected also. The other concern I have is how are the drinks being regulated to tell someone stop. That they’ve had enough because Paisley Park and the City of Chanhassen could be considered legally liable if someone leaves that facility, even though they’re taking them in and out of buses but they’re taking them to their car and now they’re driving and they’ve been drinking so the last known place that they were drinking if it was Paisley Park and they’ve had too much they could be considered legally liable and also the City of Chanhassen for actually issuing the license so 9 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 that would be my next concern. But overall the key, the biggest concern I have is that Paisley Park has always been, as Prince has wanted is a place for family and people of all ages and even the museum doesn’t have an age restriction and usually the events there now, unless they’re restricting age limits to the people that can go there but I still have a great concern of the legal liability and also respecting Prince’s legacy of not having alcohol at Paisley Park. There was a reason and there still is a reason and I’m concerned that even though this is temporary it’s going to start a precedent or later they will add on and want this to be an ongoing thing at Paisley Park. It was set up as a, he set it up as a haven and a safe place for people to go. Have fun in a clean, sober manner and enjoy music and enjoy the environment that he set up to feel safe and I’m just concerned that out of the concept of adding additional revenue. I understand it’s a business and they need to pay taxes but there’s also a balance because all that money you think you’re gaining will be taken away in one swift second when you have a major lawsuit because someone was hit by a drunk driver who just left Paisley Park. Aller: Thank you. Vera Morgan: Okay. Thank you and I’m requesting it be denied, thank you. Aller: Okay, so remind me to go back to staging and we’ll ask that at the end. And then anyone else wishing to come forward for the purpose of speaking for or against? Joe Roslansky: Hi good evening. Joe and Linda Roslansky, 431 Trap Line Lane, Chanhassen, Minnesota, 55317. Aller: Welcome. Joe Roslansky: Thank you for the opportunity in this forum to hear both the pros and the cons of what you’re about to recommend. One question I have, a packet that was prepared tonight in hard print, unless I’m missing it the special event permit does not seem to match up with what was on the website as of 6:00 p.m. this same date today. Aanenson: That’s correct. th Joe Roslansky: December 5. Aanenson: They have asked to have that amended to 11:00 a.m. Excuse me, 1:00 a.m. Aller: 1:00 a.m. Joe Roslansky: And any other modifications? Aanenson: No. 10 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Joe Roslansky: Okay, the one that I noticed on the online permit stipulated there would not be a caterer involved for food or liquor. Aanenson: No. The special event permit requires that they have to have a caterer’s license to serve alcohol and that same caterer also has to provide the food. Joe Roslansky: Yeah I’m looking at the special event permit. Aanenson: It’s one of the conditions in the staff report too. Aller: Right. Aanenson: If you look at the staff report. Joe Roslansky: So this is an incomplete application or it’s rejected the way it was submitted because on here it says, is the caterer providing the alcohol services? The box no is checked. Aanenson: So in the staff report it says in order for liquor to be served at their, a caterer must, it must be catered by a restaurant that holds an on sale intoxicating liquor and a caterer’s permit per State Statute so. Karen White: That’s our understanding as well. That a caterer only. Joe Roslansky: Okay, so the application of record on the website, one of the project documents. Aanenson: You’ll have to speak to the applicant about that but that’s, they clarified that with us so that’s what they’re. We clarified. They maybe didn’t think they didn’t need it but we clarified that they do need it. Joe Roslansky: Okay, okay. Yeah just with the revisions between the time extension and this inconsistency with what was in the application. Aanenson: I’m not sure the applicant understood what they needed and we clarified that in our staff report. Joe Roslansky: Okay. Linda Roslansky: Although the Super Bowl coming to Minnesota offers some advantages for our city it also comes with it’s set of challenges, especially from a safety perspective. Having large groups of people together in a party atmosphere can be tricky but adding alcohol to the mix makes it that much more reckless, and I’ve got some quotes listed down here. If I’m not mistaken the intent of a liquor license for Paisley Park is for cocktail parties for 500 to 1,000 people and that atmosphere seems to be consistent with problems associated with large parties 11 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 leading up to the Super Bowl. Their request shows that they are not providing food which should also be concerned where alcohol is present and has that changed? There will be food or I guess I’m still confused about that. Aanenson: It’s our understanding that there will be food. Linda Roslansky: Okay, well anyway I’m also concerned that a venue that has not historically provided alcohol is suddenly going to be serving large numbers of people. And then I’ve some quotes that may back this up. There’s, this is from Imran Ali, Washington County’s major crime prosecutor. There is no doubt that when you have an increased amount of individuals congregating and when alcohol is involved you’re going to have an increased, increasing crime committed. It’s naïve to think, to assume that it wouldn’t be. Metro area prosecutors and policy agencies anticipate that hundreds of women and girls will be sold on the sex market during Super Bowl 2018, mostly at huge organized parties and through provocative online ads and social media connections. Another quote. The vast numbers of men who converge on the Super Bowl host city each year are groups are met, in groups are met with a celebratory party atmosphere often fueled by alcohol. Given this it’s not particularly surprising that the Houston Police Force, and this was back then, is preparing for a surge in sex trafficking. After all sex trafficking is a business and traffickers want to go where the action is but law enforcement is invariably stretched thin in maintaining order and public safety is a primary concern. It’s virtually impossible to give them the investigating sex trafficking the focus it deserves. And then there’s another one. And I have, I’m just going to read one more but I have additional. There are Playboy parties in town. A Snoop Dog Party…Bells who is in Phoenix to do awareness work during the game weekend. Again I’m going off of past experience or past quotes. That’s where the traffickers will be working the crowd to find customers. And then I did, I submitted additional ones that you can review. I have some questions that I’m hoping can be answered. Who is controlling the numbers? They mentioned these buses are bringing X number. Is there somebody who is going to make sure that that is limited to those? Who is actually providing the alcohol? Who would be serving the alcohol? Would any background checks be done? What type of training have they done? From where are these groups coming? Who are the groups? It sounds like they’re corporate private parties but have we dug into a little bit more deep of you know where they’re coming from? And then the cocktail parties, it says that they’re going to be now extended to 1:00 p.m. Or 1:00 a.m. Who’s going to be enforcing that? Is there going to be any security or police that is going to be monitoring this? And then would approving this, is that going to make it easier for them to ask for this in the future? That’s another big concern. I’m just, I’m really asking you to consider the risks on this. It’s not just a simple request for a liquor license such as a fundraising event or a local celebration. Paisley Park is asking to provide liquor to 500 to 1,000 people multiple nights without serving food. Again that was based on the comment that I saw in there. Paisley Park is, or I’m sorry, taking into consideration that there trafficking incidents surrounding the Ryder Cup and that it’s an ongoing battle everywhere I feel that by not supporting potentially dangerous environments that lend itself to sex trafficking we could be protecting even just one human and I believe that is worth it. I have some additional documents that talk about the ongoing challenge of this and it’s a problem. It’s not just when the 12 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Super Bowl comes to town and it is right in our back yard so this environment just seems conducive to that. Aller: Okay. Great so for the record we’re going to receive a clean copy of the materials which can be added to the record. It will be forwarded, received now and forwarded to the City Council for it’s determination because we’re a recommending body. They’re going to make the final decision. And thank you. Yes sir, come forward. State your name and address for the record and your position please. Steve Scharfenberg: Steve Scharfenberg, 1470 Lake Susan Hills Drive, Chanhassen, Minnesota. Aller: Welcome sir. Steve Scharfenberg: Thank you commissioners for taking up this item tonight. Couple of questions that I have regarding, first what the last speakers indicated with respect to the application. Is it typical for the City to allow amendments without having to reapply for example with the catering issue and the food? Aanenson: I’m not sure when they filled out the application. That starts the process. This is an internal, an application for a special event is an internal application. Those are modified as they go along. We ask questions then, I don’t think they recognized how the caterer’s license worked and so that was clarified. Steve Scharfenberg: Okay, and isn’t there also a requirement then for them to get some, if they are serving food to get something from the health department? Aanenson: I can’t speak to exactly how that works but that process is reviewed by someone on staff that will make sure that all those requirements are met. Steve Scharfenberg: Okay. This is a private entity correct? That’s making this request. They’re not a non-profit? Aanenson: PPark Management, correct. Steve Scharfenberg: Okay. So what is, can you provide any information that the City has allowed a private entity like this to have this request for an amendment to serve alcohol? Aanenson: I can’t address all the liquor licenses because that’s not my area so I don’t feel, if you want me to address that when it goes to City Council I’d be happy to do that but special events th happened. I know the Chamber does them. The Rotary does them. We serve liquor at 4 of July. We serve at the Rotary. I know those are non-profits but we do other companies that do corporate events, private corporate events that do caterer license. It’s not uncommon to do a catering license but I don’t have that information in front of me. 13 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Steve Scharfenberg: And that would be one of my objections to the amendment being added tonight is that this is being done totally for a for profit company that we’re allowing this one individual company to have this event. I know that the City does allow for Rotary. For Feb Fes and things of that nature and that’s okay because they’re non-profits and they’re supporting the city and things that are being done for the city. In this case this isn’t for the city. This is for a private entity and so with respect to that I would have an objection to that being allowed. My final question is with regards to the ordinance itself. The original ordinance 6-16 and the prohibition for alcohol. Clearly that was placed in there for a reason. Can you speak to the reason why that was placed in there? Aanenson: That’s what the applicant at the time, PPark Management put in there. Steve Scharfenberg: Okay. Aanenson: That was their request. Steve Scharfenberg: And so given the initial request that was a prohibition and I think they had indicated originally when they wanted to change the amendment that they didn’t want alcohol and I think now to do it kind of shows their hand why they’re doing it. It’s kind of a money grab for them to get these parties in there so it was prohibited the first time. It was a prohibition to it and I would recommend or my request to the commission tonight would be to not adopt the amendment, thank you. Aller: Thank you. Any other individuals wishing to come forward at this time to speak either for or against the item? Seeing none come forward I’ll close the public hearing portion of the item but I ask Ms. White to approach again if I could. Maybe we can talk about the staging and some of the issues that were brought before us so we can get those for the record and they can be handed off to the City for a final decision. Karen White: Okay. Aller: So would the furniture and things that are in where people are going to come and be. Karen White: Right. Aller: You indicated that those things would be removed. Articles that were Prince’s or considered to be artifacts for the museum will be removed. Karen White: Absolutely, be removed. Aller: And what type of staging then would occur? Would you be bringing in new furniture? 14 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Karen White: Yeah from what we’re hearing, and by the way I’ll just throw it in there. The one of the smaller groups is not requesting alcohol, just so you know so it will not be 5 days a week. Some people don’t care for alcohol so there is one that is not. But anyway we’ll be pulling everything out as we did during Celebration and then also we’ll be bringing in, as we also did during Celebration, using an event company to come in. To bring tables and chairs. Aller: And it’s your intention to use the same event company or a different one? Or do you know? Karen White: Well we use two so we like to use, we like to keep things, we like to keep the vendors to a minimum and as I said everything is strictly vetted by us as management there so we would just use the same vendors that we’ve used in the past. Aller: And using the vendors in the past have they done background checks on their employees? Are you aware of that? Karen White: Absolutely. Aller: What type of service training have they received? Is that something that you look into and check and verify? Karen White: As far as event planning company we probably wouldn’t. However we do get a list of every single person that comes on the property and I don’t know if you’ve been out there but we have a very, very strong security team and nothing really gets past them so we are very careful about who we let on the property. Aller: And we talked about the food so these. Karen White: Yes. Aller: Are there any corporate entities or other party groups or individuals that have come forward requesting alcohol be served and no food? Karen White: No, absolutely not. And also we let them know in advance that it has to be both so it’s law so as we understand it. We’ve learned, you know we have learned a lot about this process. Aller: It’s usually a percentage. Karen White: We really weren’t sure about the alcohol or the food so we do understand that and actually the people who have asked for alcohol have said that they have to have food so it’s responsible adults here. Professional people that are asking for these. 15 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Aller: And what other questions did we have? Oh the entity. So we’ve had individuals that knew the family that are concerned. Just who is making the application? What is the relationship? Is the family behind this? Not behind this? Little background on that would be great. Karen White: Well you know actually I don’t, I really can’t speak to that. I’m not sure but I’m just a representative of the museum but it is a request that has been approved by, as Kim mentioned, Comerica has approved it so that’s about as much as I can speak to now. Aller: Any additional questions for Ms. White? Absolutely. Karen White: Another thing to throw in there. Our kitchen, just I think there was an issue with the health department or something like that. So we do have a certified. I’m not, the kitchen’s not my area but there is a certification process and we are completely certified since we do serve food on our daily, you know during our daily tours so we’ve already got that covered so. Aller: Great. Thank you. Karen White: Okay, thank you. Aller: Okay I’ll open it up for commissioner comment and discussion and potential action. Commissioner Tietz. Tietz: Kate, how would we react to a proposal if Emerson decided to have a corporate event and have alcohol on their site for a large facility? Aanenson: They would come get a, tell us they’re getting a caterer’s license and. Tietz: Just like, just like we’re dealing with tonight? Aanenson: Correct. Correct. Tietz: So a corporate event by a local corporation would fall under the same guidelines and do? Aanenson: That’s correct. They would secure and again I don’t, I’m not the administrator of the liquor licenses but they would work through that process, yeah. Tietz: Okay. Aller: Any other questions? Concerns. Personally in looking at this I would like to see it scaled down a bit so I don’t know whether or not I want to approve it as presented or whether or not we should look at the hours. The 11:00 hour and the 1:00 hour or the numbers because we’ve heard that it’s really about 250 to 500. Do we want to put a cap on it to 750 so that it minimizes? Do 16 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 we want to put a cap on it for hours? I mean now’s the time that we can make our suggestions to the City Council for doing that so does anybody have any thoughts on modification of the motion as stated? Or as requested. Tietz: Not on the motion Andrew but I guess I am concerned about the family’s concern. Whether the family was involved in the decision. Now Comerica is, as I understand it they’re the administrator of the estate but do they represent all aspects of the family and do they run issues by the family in the event of any question about use of the facility? And I’m not sure I got a clear answer on that. Aller: I guess the question is, although we want to look at that and it’s certainly nice to look at that I don’t know whether or not we should be making a decision solely on that basis when it’s a one time event. The request was never made to make this facility one which regularly served alcohol so I look at this as a Super Bowl event. We’ve been lucky enough to have one in the past apparently 25 or 26 years ago and we might see one if we’ve got a new stadium in another 25 or 26 years but it has been presented as a one time event. I don’t see it as a nose in the, camel’s nose in the tent so to speak. I think it’s truly a one time event. Very unique in nature and I think we have to, as we do with all matters before this commission we look at it as they come. When they come. That being said when we look at what we’ve done in the past historically for other individuals, permit wise the hours. The numbers and the facility structures. I think those are something that we want to look at and be consistent with and that’s why 1:00 is on the outside is th it something that everybody is doing and we have in the past? I know that 4 of July we’re typically cutting off alcohol sales at 11:00 and so I would be much more comfortable with that motion than one at 1:00. Randall: Do you mind if I add my two cents here? Aller: Mr. Randall. Randall: I guess you know after seeing the presentations I do have some concerns about things. One, I was happy to see this was more of a private and corporate event type planning that’s going to be taking place. The initial onset I thought maybe you were having public events and people would buy tickets and I’m glad it’s a private event type thing and I like that you have guest lists. You control who’s coming. You know who’s coming. I know your security team does an excellent job up there. Also too the time of year. End of January, beginning of February. There’s not that many indoor venues. Fourth of July is a little bit different. We’re outside. There’s a lot of people. It’s a public. This is a cold weather event. It’s an indoor venue. It is a private entity and I think it’s good for the City of Chan to have these people come to our city and see it, especially during the week. One suggestion Karen I will make to you though is that the, in regards to the sex trafficking, it’d be nice if you could and I’m not, there’s no way I can make you do it but if you can update your security staff and your staff on signs of that so they’re aware of it so they can contact local law enforcement. And I think with your 17 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 guest lists and your corporate event you’re going to know who’s coming there and you probably won’t have that but just so they’re aware of it and they can. Karen White: Absolutely. Randall: And I know local law enforcement would be open to that. Getting a phone call so this is just a suggestion but for me I think the hours, even to 1:00 a.m., that’s appropriate with this type of event. It’s going to be indoors. I worked at the Ryder Cup. I saw those events. They’re outdoor venues. I just think this will work for the city of Chan even within that timeframe. Those are my opinions. Aller: Additional comments? Undestad: I think I’d agree with the timeframe. The 1:00 a.m. I think that’s again because of the indoor event in there. I just think if possibly the limitation on the amount of people. Sounds like they’re already getting ideas of 250 seems to be the number so I don’t know if 500 would be a good cap on there so. Karen White: We moved 2,000 just for the record, we moved 2,000 in and out during Celebration every day so 1,000 we thought was pretty safe because we had 2,000 before. Audience: But there’s no alcohol. Aller: Well and I’m just looking at numbers with regard to even if there was alcohol or no alcohol we’re looking at a daily tally of 2,000 which are streaming through versus a concentrated function where you’re going to have people want to be there. It’s a destination event. I look at it that way. Karen White: True. Celebration was 1,000 for 4 hours and then we have a next group of 1,000 the next section. You know traffic time so we did, the total is 2,000 for the day but 1,000 at any given 4 hour period. Audience: We had no alcohol. Audience: But they also were going for the museum at that time too. They weren’t restricted to only the sound stage and the… Aller: Well and we all know that the fire department’s going to have to sign off on it one way or another right? Karen White: I’m sorry? 18 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 Aller: We all know the fire department will have to sign off on the occupancy one way or another. Karen White: Oh absolutely. Aller: So I’d like to rely on the experts. Undestad: But if we limit to, cut it back to 500 max and that helps all of the legal side of things too and for law enforcement and how you’re tracking how many people. Who’s coming in and going right. Knowing that there’s alcohol there so. Aller: Any additional comments or concerns? Any suggested motions at this point in time? Randall: Do we need to make an amendment if we want to make the number? Aller: Make whatever motion you want with regard to the presentation. Randall: Okay, I’d like to make a motion. Aller: Yes, Commissioner Randall. Randall: Propose a motion the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that the City Council approval of the ordinance amending the PUD to allow liquor sales at Paisley Park from Monday, January 29, 2018 through Sunday, February 4, 2018 from 7:00 p.m. til 1:00 a.m. with the recommendation limiting the number of guests to 500. Per night. Aller: I think that’s all we need. I have a motion. Do I have a second? Undestad: Second. Aller: Having a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Were there any other items that needed to be attached or appended to that? No. No additional discussion. Randall moved, Undestad seconded that the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that the City Council approve the ordinance amending the PUD to allow liquor sales at Paisley Park from Monday, January 29, 2018 through Sunday, February 4, 2018 from 7:00 p.m. til 1:00 a.m. with the recommendation of limiting the number of guests to 500 per night. All voted in favor, except Commissioner Tietz who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 1. th Aller: So the motion is 3 to 1. It’s adopted and moved to the City for final action on January 8. Again we are a recommending body. The City can choose to modify this at it’s discretion when th it gets there on the 8. Any individual wishing to be heard at that time should be prepared to 19 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 come on in and talk to the council and even better send a correspondence in writing to the City so they have an opportunity to be prepared for any questions that you have and get you appropriate answers at that time. Thank you for the presentations and we’ll take a 30 second recess here. The Planning Commission took a short recess at this point in the meeting. DOWNTOWN VISION PLAN UPDATE: PROVIDE CITY COUNCIL PRESENTATION FROM NOVEMBER 27, 2017. Aller: Okay we’re back on the record on new business. The downtown vision plan update which is an opportunity for us to get a quick update on the status of the visioning plan. Aanenson: Thank you Chairman, members of the Planning Commission. I wanted to share this with you, this downtown vision. So what this report went to the City Council at their last meeting and what we did is we went through, went through and just talked about where we are in the process and I think the City Council was a little concerned of whether or not, I think some of you were at that meeting. I know Mark and Andrew and John, you were at that meeting. Whether or not there was a good sample size there. There was like 50 people there but not enough people responded. We also opened it up so I think what we’d like to do based on that direction and we’ll be putting in a report to the City Council for their next meeting a week from yesterday to talk about some gathering some additional data points. Working more with the business community which was the original meeting we had. Some of those property owners down there and just get more robust data points and spend a little bit more time on that so that will kind of push us into the first part of the next quarter. But I just wanted to share with you the summary comments that were in here and really that’s all my intent here was to just kind of keep you in the loop and maybe something that we come back and give a lot more detail to and let you actually do your own plotter dots or whatever so make sure that you’re included in that so that was really the purpose of putting that in there just to make sure. And I’d also like, if I’m going to go through it in detail have as many of the commission members here too. Not that you’re not important but it’d be nice so we need more input too so, so just wanted to share that with you. I don’t know if you had any commission presentations, anybody up there. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS. Aller: No, anyone? Aanenson: Maybe John you want to say something about the park plan that was a great presentation. Great effort on behalf of the Parks and Recreation Commission and those public participants I guess that worked for the last 14 months on that. It was well received I think by the council. There was some questions about prioritization and about dollars and I know there was a lot of discussion even when that report was being prepared as to how you project dollars when the projects have no specific definition. They don’t have definitive programs. They don’t 20 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 have contract documents and they might not happen for 5, 10 or 15 years and you know some of the members of council were focusing more on the dollar aspects that were presented and it’s, it’s human nature to do that when you look at a project, or a report and you see dollars to try to, well to focus on what it’s going to cost the community and how we’re going to pay for it but all in all I think the process was great. Kate regarding the downtown area, I mean the process for the park plan was just tremendous. I think when you count the electronic feedback. The pop up’s. The presentations to all the local groups. I think Todd said that there were close to 1,500 or 2,000 total comments over the course of the 14 months. I just wonder how, you know if we could get more energy in the downtown area it would be I think quite important to the, again we get folks that focus on issues and there’s been a hot issue in town regarding height and land use and we’re getting, I think there’s still a lot of conversation about that particular issue. What we’re looking at is a plan for 20 years from now. A lot of the comments were I’d like to be like Excelsior. We should be walkable. Well that’s not going to happen overnight. I mean that’s going to take folks who are property owners, who are business owners, who are residents to really implement that and it’s going to take a long time. We had a, we had a close call with the Ponds I guess. You know back in the mid, what 2006-2007 and unfortunately the economy took that project out from under them but otherwise we would have had something that’s probably not dissimilar to Excelsior on Grand where we’d have. Randall: What was the project? Tietz: The ponds on the south side of Highway 5. Randall: Oh yes. Tietz: You know that had residential above and retail below and could have been really a tight little community. Well that could happen on the north side of 5 too over time but I think we have to you know have a vision for the future that, that’s not going to be implemented tomorrow. We’re not going to all of a sudden have 5 proposals for 5 story apartment buildings. However we need to become more like Excelsior on Grand or a downtown Excelsior. You need density. You need people and make it more walkable but this is a great start. I think there’s a lot of great th ideas. It’d be interesting to see not just the business folks who have businesses on 78 and in the downtown area but the landowners. Landowners are going to drive it because leases come up and eventually the land is going to become potentially more valuable to do something different and we’ve got great opportunities. Aanenson: Yeah, I appreciate your comments Commissioner Tietz. So the first meeting we had was with the property owners, before we had those and they weren’t presented as part of this study so you don’t have those in yet but the report that’s going to the City Council, that’s what we’re going to talk about. That we need to make it more robust. There’s opportunities at Feb Fest to get out there and get more input. Put those out there. We’re going to go back and work with, there’s all kinds of talk going out there, we’re driving people out of town. We don’t buy businesses. They change over. What we want as you stated, that vision to say what could it look 21 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 like if those properties sell so I appreciate those comments. So we’re going to step back. Take a little more time. Get more input, just as you stated so we’ve got some specific strategies we’ll be sharing with the council and get some better direction and then we’ll share that back with you but definitely involving some of good folks doing that. Aller: And I think addressing that issue about driving businesses out of town, the fact that you’re going back to the businesses a second time is great because when it was going through and we were looking at the potential maps and what the potential visions could be, we had a lot of different options presented. A lot of them are dependent upon what present business owners do. How long they intend to stay in town. Do they intend to stay in town? Do they want to coordinate with another business to try to modify it and maybe adopt one of these visions in the near future. That’s probably the only way we’re going to see it in the near future. Otherwise we’re looking out 10-15-20 years. Aanenson: Right and there was some active developers at that open house. Unfortunately we intended it to be an open house but it ended up evolving into something else because some messages were sent out and so I think some people kind of were overwhelmed in how to get their input but we’re going to keep working on it and refine it. Get some direction from the council so I appreciate those comments. Tietz: Kate just one more thing. I know you and I have talked about this before too and maybe I’ve mentioned it to other members of the Planning Commission but many years ago as Southdale expanded and the perimeter of Southdale expanded there was a Lund’s on the corner ndth of what, 72 or 70. They had a prime location. They had a huge parking lot out front and it took years and years and years. They must have been there for 20 years I bet or more. Their land became more valuable to relocate so they pushed back and became incorporated in another development and apartments were built but that took many, many years to evolve but the land became more valuable for an alternative use and the surface parking was making it less likely to be a walkable area and of course they have that wonderful spine that links the lakes to Southdale but you know that’s a good example of what can happen over time. As long as we preserve the options to create opportunities I think is what we want to do. Aanenson: Correct, exactly. And create that in a road network, yeah. Aller: I like to be wrong but I think the 61 corridor is going to be the one that adopts some of those visions first. That we’re still looking at putting in infrastructure and 10 years down the road. Aanenson: Well and again the jewel is our downtown. We want to keep that. Keep it robust as we look at Avienda and the changes and so it’s an exciting project so we definitely want to keep it moving. Get some energy back in there and get some direction from the council so I appreciate your input and I skipped over the Minutes Chairman, sorry. 22 Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 5, 2017 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Commissioner Undestad noted the verbatim and summary Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated November 21, 2017 as presented. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Aller: I’ll entertain a motion. Aanenson: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I’ve got a couple more things, sorry. City Council update. There wasn’t any but we do have some other items. Speaking of downtown. We did get an application in for Panera Bread and that’s going at the next Chick-fil-A. They’ve been looking in town for probably 3-4 years so they wanted a double drive throughs. They only go through drive throughs so there’s limited places that those can go so we’re working on, they did nd complete, did submit a traffic study so that would be for the January 2 meeting. Also there’s two variances on that meeting and I also wanted to give you an update on 7721 Erie. They’ve given us the 60 days and they’re still trying to work through some of their issues for the fire truck there. Aller: The double driveway. Aanenson: Yep, so I just wanted to make sure, if we could just take a minute. I know some people are traveling. That’s kind of the back bookend of a holiday. If we don’t have a quorum I think Mr. Undestad you’ll probably be not here. John will you be traveling? Tietz: I’ll be here. Aanenson: You’ll be here, okay. Andrew you’ll be here? Aller: I’m here. Aanenson: Mark you’ll be here? Okay. I’m pretty sure Nancy will be but I’ll double check. I just want to make sure that we’ve got a quorum. Kind of big projects there and check with Commissioner Weick too so with that I didn’t have anything else in the correspondence so with that this will be our last meeting for the year so happy holidays. That’s all I had Chairman. Aller: I’ll entertain a motion to adjourn for the year. Commissioner Undestad moved to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The Planning Commission meeting was adjourned at 8:00 p.m. Submitted by Kate Aanenson Community Development Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 23