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CC Meeting Minutes 9-24-18Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 23 Mayor Laufenburger: That motion carries 5-0. Thank you Mr. Sticha. Thank you council and look forward to further discussion as necessary on that. ORDINANCE 635: AMENDMENT TO CHANHASSEN RETAIL CENTER PUD TO ALLOW ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE FOR TARGET. Mayor Laufenburger: Is this your’s Ms. Aanenson? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Not sure where my presentation went. Mayor Laufenburger: Do you need time to find it? Kate Aanenson: Do you want to switch user for me? Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: If you’re watching at home you don’t have time to get a drink from the refrigerator so. Kate Aanenson: Sorry. I think you’ve got the password over there. Team effort here… All I’m saying is it takes a finance and engineer to figure this out. Mayor Laufenburger: This is called double level security, is that right? Kate Aanenson: It is. Thank you. Alright Mayor, thank you for waiting. Technical difficulties. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: The Planning Commission heard this case, Chanhassen Retail Center PUD amendment for a sign on September 4th. At that meeting there was some discussion by the Planning Commission and another business owner in town regarding treatment of signs. So this sign, this location of this Target, the liquor store is requesting an amendment to the PUD. It’s located, the underlying zoning district is general business so the PUD for the entire design standards is 18 acres, 7 lots and 2 outlots so in this P UD it’s more restrictive than the underlying zoning districts so it only allows 2 wall signage. As you know Target did an interior remodel. As a part of that they also upgraded the exterior. As a part of that they added a liquor store which has a separate entrance and for that they wanted some additional signage. So the staff looked at that and felt that there was a way to accommodate that would be to allow for a PUD amendment. Again as I stated at the public hearing there was a local business owner that expressed that 5 years ago he was not allowed to have 3 frontages. Only was limited to 2 and again depending on the underlying district or the PUD so in that specific case that one is actually is neighborhood business. Those signs tend to be more restrictive and also if you’ve abutting a residential zoning district. So again there’s different standards under different PUD’s. The Planning Commission verified that the proposed amendment would treat all businesses within that PUD equally and that the Planning Commission recommended, verified that the central Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 24 business district also allows signage along each frontage. But again this is PUD so you have discretion there. There was question, the Planning Commission questioned the need for additional signage so that was discussed and as you’re aware one of the amendments we did make to the sign code is we’re seeing a lot more of those, is the ability to park and have groceries brought out to you or for instance at Target so we’ve permitted those signs so the re was a question about additional signage and again different purposes. So the Planning Commission also discussed the retail environment and need for flexibility so the Planning Commission did have a robust discussion on this. Again take public comment and recommended to, for approval so this is the existing proposed signage on the site. And then again we kind of went through each of the different uses out there. Perkin’s, Leann Chin, Taco Bell, and how they were treated. And again Jersey Mikes has just the 2 frontages. So the Planning Commission did recommend, so we’ve got 2 different motions in for you. I know there’s some concern about whether or not they were being, that Target was being treated differently than some of the other uses within that PUD so we actually have 2 motions and 2 separate Findings of Fact for each, whether recommending approval or if the council did choose to deny the request. Again different Findings of Fact. I did go through that rather quickly but I’d be happy to answer any questions that you may have about the request. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright thank you Ms. Aanenson. In just a moment I’m going to ask the applicant to come forward if they’re present. I think they are. Kate Aanenson: Yep. Mayor Laufenburger: But before I do that are there any questions of council, or questions by council of staff? Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. McDonald go ahead. Councilman McDonald: Ms. Aanenson the one thing I’m still confused about, and it loo ks as though maybe the Planning Commission resolved it but the businessman that came forward, Mr. Clausen, how was that resolved? If we pass this does he get to come back and ask for a third sign along the road or? Kate Aanenson: Well there’s a couple things there. The fact that we don’t allow commercial signage when you’re abutting a public, so that’s facing a side that has public exposed so there’s residential across the street. It’s in a separate PUD so if that, that underlying zoning is neighborhood commercial so that only allows 2 signs. So if you wanted to amend that PUD you’d have to do that. This, the only thing you’re doing here is amending the PUD for the proposed uses that are in there. The 7 buildings that I mentioned. The 7 lots and 2 o utlots. This would be the only thing that would be affected would be the Chanhassen Retail Center. Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 25 Councilman McDonald: Okay so this is not a revision you know based upon Target or a smaller liquor store. This is a revision based upon the way the zoning is currently enacted. Kate Aanenson: Well and the fact that they have a separate business entity that just was using a wall sign. A small wall sign above, really more in practicality would be at what considered a window sign which businesses are allowed a certain percentage of window sign but would like to do is have exposure on the other frontage. Frontage facing West 78 th because until you’re in front of the building you can’t see it so that was their request. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Thank you for clearing that up. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, any other questions or comments of council? Alright, is the applicant here and would you like to address the council? Okay, please state your name and address. Good evening. Kate Aanenson: Did you have drawings you want to put up there? I can put them on the screen. Leila Bunge: Yeah they should be the same. Mayor Laufenburger: Just pull that microphone down towards your face. We want to make sure that we’re picking up your voice. Leila Bunge: Alright good evening Mayor and council members. My name is Leila Bunge with Kimley-Horn and Associates. And this is. Jay Richardson: Yes, hi my name is Jay Richardson. I’m with RSP Architects. Leila Bunge: And we are here representing Target on this request. We’ve been working with planning staff on this remodel for quite some time. Lots of discussion and thought has gone into the signage on the exterior and as planning staff has mentioned the request tonight is to add a wine and spirits sign on the north elevation in order to better serve Target’s customers and make it very known that there is a new wine and spirits section. A new service that Target’s officering in this store. This remodel has been a pretty big investment for Target and they want to continue seeing the liquor store be a good investment and a profitable investment. They found that once they put the wine and spirit section in there that the current signage on the front didn’t really advertise that section very well and so we came back to planning staff to see what we could do to add a new sign on the north elevation that kind of captures you know passerby’s either walking or driving on that, I think it was 78 th Street better than it does currently today. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Richardson did you want to say anything at this time? What’s your role in this Jay? Jay Richardson: I’m a designer with the architect’s office. Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 26 Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so you designed the location and the visual appearance of the recommended signage is that correct? I’m sure it’s much more than that Jay. Jay Richardson: Well I took part in that. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Jay Richardson: And I did design the improvements to the exterior on this particular store and. Mayor Laufenburger: Would you, oh keep going. Jay Richardson: Yes. And I just wanted to point out the liquor store portion is completely separate. There is no door between the interior of the store. Mayor Laufenburger: Yep, it was addressed in the original application for the store. Jay Richardson: Yes. And people simply are not finding it and so yeah Target has been very disappointed and so we’d like to rectify that. Mayor Laufenburger: Are there any questions of the applicant? Go ahead. Councilwoman Ryan: Why was there not consideration for signage above the liquor store at the time? On the west facing portion of the building. Jay Richardson: You want to answer that one? Leila Bunge: Yeah that is a great question. So when our initial discussions with planning staff about the frontage signage, that red EIFS panel that’s on two sections of that front elevation, that’s part of the sign area calculations. Target doesn’t consider that sign ar ea. That’s more of an architectural feature but in the way that the city code is written that would be counted as sign area. I’m not sure if anyone has seen the recent remodels in the Twin Cities area but this is part of Target’s rebranding to add kind o f more red to the building and make it more visible from farther away so that was a really important feature in order to kind of keep this momentum not only in this remodel but just nationwide of part of the remodel program that they’re doing so given the fact that we had to count that towards the sign area we were a little bit limited in what we could do on the front but there is a window sign currently but it just isn’t capturing I think the attention that Target’s hoping. Mayor Laufenburger: That’s the white sign. The white lettering. Kate Aanenson: It’s right over here. Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 27 Mayor Laufenburger: Is there a restriction Ms. Aanenson on whether that be white or red? Kate Aanenson: No. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: No. But it clarify so our interpretation was that the red constituted, while we appreciated all the upgrades because they did some other fascia improvements too including spandrel windows on the other side and the like but our interpretation was that maxed out the signage so, so yeah there is the underneath the canopy here is where there’s some lettering yeah correct. Councilwoman Ryan: And there can’t be any above like they have Pharmacy? Kate Aanenson: Because they’ve maxed all that out yeah. Councilwoman Ryan: Oh on that side. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, yeah. And then they’ve got signage on the other side for exposure so. Councilwoman Ryan: But could they ask for a variance to have. Kate Aanenson: On this side? Councilwoman Ryan: On the west side. Just over the top of their liquor store. Kate Aanenson: Oh on this side? Councilwoman Ryan: (Yes). Kate Aanenson: Anything that they would amend the PUD could be a request sure. Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: Anything else? Councilwoman Ryan: No thank you. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. How about here? When the, when this original, the application was made for the liquor license and the establishment of the liquor store I recall Mister, I think it was Redberg? Does that name, anyway. Somebody from Target was present and said that liquor is performing exceptionally well all across the country and their desire, he stated the desire was Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 28 to have convenience and one stop shop for Target customers. Is that still the objective do you know? Based on your discussions with Target Leila. Leila Bunge: Yeah I believe so. I mean I think the hope is that you can come to Target and get your groceries and you know beer and wine and clothes and everything in one place so I believe that’s definitely still the case. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Leila Bunge: Anything you want to say? Jay Richardson: Yeah I’d agree. Leila Bunge: Okay. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. So you’re interested in having a sign on the north elevation to let people know that you have a liquor store at Target right? But don’t the people that are coming to Target already know that? Leila Bunge: I mean not every store has a liquor, or a wine and spirits section. I mean there’s quite a few that don’t still have that option so this is definitely a new service to the Chanhassen Target that Target wants to advertise and make sure that people are aware of it. And I think especially just because that street frontage is very well traveled I think that adding it on that north side really will help kind of pull people from that street frontage as well. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Ms. Aanenson is, was there any consideration to adding a wine and spirits to their monument sign? Kate Aanenson: That would certainly be a possibility. There’s a monument sign on West 78 th Street that could be modified too. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. But that would also require, would that be signage that would require modification to the P UD? Kate Aanenson: No. They would need just a sign permit on that and stay within the sign criteria. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Is there anything else? Leila Bunge: I guess if I could just add one more thing. Mayor Laufenburger: Go ahead. Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 29 Leila Bunge: The, I think currently just because there is that second entrance there too I think it is a little bit kind of awkward that there isn’t some sort of explanation for why there’s that second entrance there. Mayor Laufenburger: Well do other Target stores have a connection between the main store and the liquor store? Jay Richardson: I think most do. Leila Bunge: Yeah, yeah definitely. I guess I’m just saying like when you’re facing the store I think the whole idea is to be able to kind of explain this is a new service. This is a new door. You know this is where you would go for that service so that’s part of the reason I think Target wants to have it on the building. Mayor Laufenburger: So your objective is as people are walkin g in from the parking lot a sign on the north entrance will tell them that there’s wine and spirits in this store. Is that what I’m hearing you say? Leila Bunge: Well I guess I would argue that on both, yes because the sign is technically on the window but also proposing it on that north elevation so that they understand that that is kind of the side of the building to go to as well. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Alright thank you very much. Leila Bunge: Thank you so much. Mayor Laufenburger: Let’s bring this back to the council for discussion and comment or motion. Councilmembers any comments, discussion or motion? Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor I have a couple comments. Mayor Laufenburger: Go ahead Councilmember Ryan. Councilwoman Ryan: Please, thank you. I struggle with this for a couple of reasons. I know we had discussed this but when we talked about having in the PUD that all the buildings have signage on 3 sides. If you look at the Noodles and Company and Jersey Mike’s, those are separate businesses and to give them, in what my mind is equal treatment I guess that’s why they have the monument, or the signage in 3 sides of the building and then I know Perkins was another one and the additional one in the report that we got was beca use of a clerical error so while I understand that it’s, we’re trying to bring it all up to be the same, I don’t think that this is, in this case that it’s the same that all these have the, should need to have 3 sides of the building. I also think that it’s important to be similar, consistent. I know Mr. Clausen had been with the Vintage had asked to have the 3 signs and he was unable and while he could come back and Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 30 maybe ask for a variance I know that additional costs at this point of the project is not something that he’s expressed that he would be able to do so I’d like to remain consistent on how we’re treating the other, the other stores and finally I think people know where Target is and that there’s a liquor store there and if Target is interested in highlighting the entrance to their liquor store, my recommendation would be to either come back with requesting a variance and putting it something over the top of the entrance or add it to their monument sign so I will not be supporting this motion. Mayor Laufenburger: We don’t have a motion. Councilwoman Ryan: Well we don’t have that motion but yeah. This request. Councilman Campion: Should there be one. Councilwoman Ryan: Should there be one. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Well I think there will be but I’m just not sure when. Councilwoman Ryan: The second would yes. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan: Supporting this amendment. Mayor Laufenburger: Anybody else have a question or comment? Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor I’ll make a motion so we can put this on the table. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilman McDonald: Okay I will make the motion that the Chanhassen City Council approves the ordinance amending the Chanhassen Retail Center Planned Unit Development and adopts the attached Findings of Fact and Decision. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So this is a motion approving the ordinance which essentially would allow Target to place the signage on the north frontage, wine and spirits on the north frontage. That’s your motion. Is there a second? My 7 second rule applies and there’s no second so that motion fails for lack of a second. Is there anything else the council might like to do tonight on this particular item? Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor I’ll mak e a motion please. Mayor Laufenburger: Councilmember Ryan go ahead. Chanhassen City Council – September 24, 2018 31 Councilwoman Ryan: I’d like to make the motion that the Chanhassen City Council denies the ordinance amending the Chanhassen Retail Center Planned Unit Development and adopts the attached Findings of Fact and Decision. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay so this is a motion to deny the request by Target through Kimley- Horn and RSP. To not allow this signage. Is there a second to that motion? Councilman Campion: Second. Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Campion. Is there any discussion? The only question I would raise Ms. Aanenson is that if this motion does pass, which is a denial, Target is still free to make application for putting some other signage in place and it would be similarly as an amendment to the PUD, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct or just get a building sign permit for. Mayor Laufenburger: For the monument sign correct. Kate Aanenson: Right. Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Is there any other discussion? Councilwoman Ryan moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the Chanhassen City Council denies the ordinance amending the Chanhassen Retail Center Planned Unit Development and adopts the attached Findings of Fact and Decision. All voted in favor, except Councilman McDonald who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright that motion carries 4 to 1. I voted in favor of the majority. So at least for the time being the application for signage, additional signage at Target under these terms is denied. APPROVE AGREEMENT WITH THE RILEY-PURGATORY-BLUFF CREEK WATERSHED DISTRICT FOR THE BLUFF CREEK SOUTHWEST BRANCH STABILIZATION AND RESTORATION PROJECT. Mayor Laufenburger: Who’s is this? Mr. Oehme’s. This better be good. I saw those pictures and that doesn’t look good. Paul Oehme: No so I have some more pictures for you tonight. Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, okay. Please go ahead.